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October 23, 2014

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2014-Oct-23 (PDF)

L018 - Thu 23 Oct 2014 / Jeu 23 oct 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 23 October 2014 Jeudi 23 octobre 2014

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Introduction of Visitors

Nathan Cirillo

Shootings in Ottawa

Oral Questions

Public safety

Interprovincial trade

Legislative precinct security

Transit funding

Rondeau Provincial Park

Elliot Lake inquiry

International trade

Child care

Diagnostic services

Winter highway maintenance

Asthma

Child care

Workplace safety

Community health centre

Visitors

Correction of record

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Hepworth-Shallow Lake Rotary Club

Feed the Need Durham

Yvonne Rowatt

Ontario College Information Fair

Social assistance

Ottawa–Orléans community barbecue / Barbecue communautaire à Ottawa–Orléans

Bill Heasley

Casa do Alentejo

Roger Conant

Introduction of Bills

Bensfort Wood Inc. Act, 2014

Respect for Veterans Act (Placing Donation Boxes for Remembrance Day Poppies in Members’ Offices), 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur le respect des anciens combattants (placement dans les bureaux des députés de boîtes de dons pour les coquelicots du jour du Souvenir)

Motions

Private members’ public business

Petitions

Asthma

Hispanic Heritage Month

Asthma

Hispanic Heritage Month

Asthma

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Asthma

Health care

Asthma

School trustees

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder

Health care

Private Members’ Public Business

Highway Incident Management Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la gestion des incidents de la route

Visitors

Ryan’s Law (Ensuring Asthma Friendly Schools), 2014 / Loi Ryan de 2014 pour assurer la création d’écoles attentives à l’asthme

Violence against aboriginal women

Highway Incident Management Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la gestion des incidents de la route

Ryan’s Law (Ensuring Asthma Friendly Schools), 2014 / Loi Ryan de 2014 pour assurer la création d’écoles attentives à l’asthme

Violence against aboriginal women

Orders of the Day

Stronger Workplaces for a Stronger Economy Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’amélioration du lieu de travail au service d’une économie plus forte

Child Care Modernization Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la modernisation des services de garde d’enfants

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 22, 2014, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 15,

An Act to amend various statutes in the interest of reducing insurance fraud, enhancing tow and storage service and providing for other matters regarding vehicles and highways / Projet de loi 15, Loi visant à modifier diverses lois dans le but de réduire la fraude à l’assurance, d’améliorer les services de remorquage et d’entreposage et de traiter d’autres questions touchant aux véhicules et aux voies publiques.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): When this item of business was last debated, the member from Scarborough–Agincourt had the floor with time remaining. I see we now look to another member for further debate. The member for Kitchener–Conestoga.

Mr. Michael Harris: Good morning. I’m pleased to speak to Bill 15 today, the legislation that addresses concerns that affect every driver in Ontario: unaffordably high insurance rates and the need to get to the root causes to provide relief across the board. Speaker, there is no doubt that auto insurance premiums in this province are unbearably high; the highest in the nation, in fact. We’re number one, and that is certainly nothing to boast about.

I hear it from my constituents in Kitchener–Conestoga. Simply put, driving to work, picking up the kids or heading out on the weekend is costing more every day, and many are fed up with waiting for the promised insurance reduction that this government has guaranteed them countless times. “Where is the relief,” I’m asked, “Where are those reductions?” Of course, the government set itself a 15% reduction target by August 2015, and to the surprise of no one, indications point to the fact that they’re behind schedule. In fact, according to the Insurance Bureau of Canada, the 15% reduction is absolutely not doable.

Even more concerning is the fact that the finance minister continues to lead us down the garden path while IBC’s own policy people have indicated that the province’s own regulator doesn’t even believe the repeated promise can be fulfilled. In fact, it was revealed that “In our conversations with the superintendent of insurance, he’s indicated to us that no one in FSCO believes that there’s 15% that’s in the system (to be reduced).” FSCO doesn’t even think it is achievable, and we’re hearing reports that the rates may, in fact, be heading in the other direction.

Only in Ontario could a government botch things so royally on such an important issue and continue to try to make motorists believe that their rates are, in fact, headed down. We realize what is behind this. We all recall the Liberal deal to adopt a 15% auto insurance reduction plan in a calculated move to gain support for the most recent budget—I guess two budgets ago. It is a good way to stay in office, but it’s an unsustainable way to reduce auto insurance rates. That’s why we, as the official opposition, put forward our own plan, a sustainable and effective plan to bring down premiums for everyone, a plan I look forward to elaborating on a little later.

We’ve known from the outset that the NDP’s demand for a 15% auto insurance premium reduction would have unintended and negative consequences. Today, despite the fact that the government is well off its reduction target, we see the consequences, in fact, taking shape.

While we may not be seeing our rates going down much, we are seeing our insurance options reduced. We see State Farm citing the current Ontario auto insurance environment as a primary reason for their decision to head for the exits. This is a company that held 11% of the auto insurance market. Meantime, we are hearing more stories in our constituency offices and across the province of more drivers being dropped by carriers, as insurance companies scramble to find savings and rid their books of even the most moderate of risks.

Is this perhaps the kind of Ontario that we want, an Ontario where motorists are left without coverage and forced to pay exorbitant increased premiums from other carriers? We’re heading in the wrong direction.

There’s no doubt that we can’t continue down this path, and we need to turn this around. All that said, it is important to note that by all accounts, industry, stakeholders and accident victim advocates alike consider the bill we see before us today as at least a step in the right direction. But to be clear, without amendment, there are very few significant cost savings achieved by this bill.

The key, as we have heard and reported in this House time and again, is confronting the very real, expensive and debilitating issue of insurance fraud. We need to ensure that this is front and centre of any attempt to fix what clearly is a very broken system.

In recent days, the Insurance Bureau of Canada has made clear its focus and action steps on what has become a key driver of escalating rates. Over the last five years, from 2009 to 2014, IBC reports that companies have significantly increased their spending on fraud from 150% to 350%, with one company increasing its fraud spending by 780%.

That spending has been distributed over a number of areas. For instance, almost all companies—96% of them—increased special investigation unit staff, 71% introduced new claims intake procedures, 62% developed and implemented new adjusting procedures, 75% adopted new investigative procedures, and 78% restructured their special investigation units.

Meantime, insurers are now involved in forming the Canadian National Insurance Crime Services as an industry response, to pool and analyze claims data to identify organized or premeditated fraud. I believe that is a great step for insurance companies to come together to analyze those things. They in fact recognize the challenge and are dedicating resources to deal with it. But without the government’s support, they are fighting a losing battle. A majority of companies still continue to experience increases in fraudulent claims as fraudsters grow ever more sophisticated.

Interruption.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Sorry about that.

Mr. Michael Harris: Not a problem. Get the man a glass of water.

What are we talking about when we discuss insurance fraud? We’re talking about situations that most don’t even realize are as commonplace as they are—that is, until you become a victim yourself—staged collisions and rogue tow truck operators looking to bilk the system, while risking the safety of Ontario motorists. I’ll give you a couple of scenarios, and I’m sure we’ve all heard the cautionary tales along these lines.

We have what’s known as swoop and squat, where a swoop car suddenly speeds up and cuts off the squat car, usually driven by an innocent person—in the wrong place at the wrong time—who of course is unable to stop in time. Before the squat car can react, he rear-ends the swoop car and the insurance claim begins. That’s just one example.

There’s also the drive-down, where the scammer appears to yield and waves to the innocent victim to proceed with a merge or lane change but, of course, as the victim merges, the perpetrator drives into the innocent driver, only later denying that they had, in fact, waved the victim on. You can see where this leads. I continue to warn motorists about that wave-through, as you may be about to become the next victim. In fact, I have spoken to many constituents in my riding who have explained a recent accident. It is a perfect example of the drive-down.

Of course, I would be remiss if I failed to mention the oft-tried-and-true sideswipe, where the criminal collides with the side of the target vehicle, usually in a busy intersection with dual left-turn lanes. If the victim in the inner lane drifts even a little into the outer lane, the criminal intentionally causes a collision.

In cases of staged collisions, the big money starts flowing when the staged victims file claims for their injuries. While the collision may have occurred at a low speed, those involved claim for severe soft-tissue injuries that are difficult to disprove and can generate a flood of examinations and assessments.

Speaker, I haven’t even mentioned the other side of these scams, involving unscrupulous tow truck drivers and body shops looking to make some quick bucks. We’re talking about scenarios where a tow truck chaser being paid a referral fee by a vehicle repair shop quickly whisks your car away to their favourite dealer, which may or may not be the shop that your insurance company chooses to deal with. Before you know it, you’re paying out of your own pocket for the tow and storage, and if you refuse to pay, then the repair shop can apply the Repair and Storage Liens Act and sell your vehicle to cover the fees. I can only imagine.

Now, we know that not all tow trucks are chasers and not all accidents are staged. We have insurance for a reason in this province. That’s why it’s important to get this right. To that end, I would like to note some of the details of the proposals we in the official opposition have brought forth to address the growing concerns. I would specifically like to thank my colleague Jeff Yurek from Elgin–Middlesex–London, who dedicated much time and effort in the last session in developing four pillars of the auto insurance action plan. I feel it’s important that I repeat those:

(1) We want to encourage competition and reduce excess bureaucracy by adopting a file-and-use rate-setting process to allow companies to lower prices quicker, ensuring greater market competitiveness and encouraging a wider range of discount offerings for Ontario drivers.

(2) We’ve talked about reforming the dispute resolution process so that, in the event of a claims dispute, people could opt for private mediations in order to reduce wait times and costs associated with government-appointed mediators. We would also like to see the establishment of a true independent, peer-reviewed medical assessment system, a system that would standardize assessment procedures and require multiple assessments to be performed by medical professionals of the same specialization.

(3) This is the big one—we want to combat fraud. As fraud has such a debilitating effect on the insurance industry and associated rates, I think we can all understand the need to establish a special unit in the crown attorney’s office to investigate and prosecute insurance fraud.

(4) Finally, we want to increase accountability by ensuring a fair, well-functioning marketplace for auto insurance by making senior insurer executives personally and financially liable for the conduct of the company.

That’s where we’re coming from in the official opposition. While some of this is reflected in the bill we see before us today, these are the areas we need to ensure are addressed as this bill moves forward through the committee process.

That being said, it’s important to look at exactly what the government is proposing here in Bill 15. Of course, the bill proposes to reform the dispute resolution system by removing the jurisdiction from the Financial Services Commission and transferring it to a new body called the Licence Appeal Tribunal under the Minister of the Attorney General. As there is no mandate for the new dispute resolution system, we would like to see further details to be outlined before passage of the bill.

We have recommended having the option for a claimant and an insurer to use private mediators, as I mentioned earlier. This gives claimants more choice and allows them to avoid long queues in a publicly administered mediation process. Currently, there is a backlog of 16,000 cases, which increases costs on the system and prevents premiums from dropping. The bill must address the issue of why so many cases go to dispute in the first place. With lawyers on both sides taking issue with this part of the bill, this will be something that has to be addressed in committee.

Section 2 of the bill proposes to align prejudgment interest rates on damages to the market rather than the fixed 5%. Prior to 1989, we had a situation where the going interest rate was higher than 5%. Now that interest rates are lower than 5%, interest on non-pecuniary damages is grossly disproportionate to actual interest and can result in vast overpayment, potentially resulting in higher premiums as a ripple effect. I feel tying interest rates to the market will boost sustainability and in turn reduce premiums through a system that both insurers and customers can agree on.

Section 3 suggests issuing licences for health care providers that provide services to auto accident victims as a way to cut down on fraud. This was an issue addressed by the anti-fraud task force report back in November 2012. In the PC auto insurance action plan, we took their suggestions and called for better utilization of the Health Claims for Auto Insurance electronic billing system. We feel there is an opportunity to leverage what is already in place to provide oversight without additional bureaucracy.

All health clinics should have a designated manager to bill insurers through the HCAI electronic billing system. With the ability to track activity, you can identify if there are abnormal billing practices due to fraudulent activity, and the individual health professional’s licence will be on the line should they have improper billing or behave improperly. I think that’s important.

Section 4 allows for greater clarity when issuing, renewing, revoking or suspending licences to insurance agents and adjusters, and we have no concerns with this section.

The final

section reduces unreasonable storage costs for vehicles damaged in motor vehicle collisions which will help cut down on fraud and treat consumers more fairly when it comes to storage rates. As I had mentioned earlier, I had a bit of a fender-bender coming in on the QEW last winter, and it was only a matter of seconds before tow truck drivers all clamoured to the scene. I will say that a few of them were very generous in helping with traffic, to clear vehicles off to the side of the road, which was extremely safe, before the emergency responders arrived on the scene.

But as I had mentioned, there are some of these tow truck operators who are bringing your vehicle back to a shop of their liking, and it is extremely difficult to get your car out of the shop. We have obviously identified that there is an issue here for storage when their car has been taken by a tow truck company and the owner can have no knowledge of who actually has possession of their vehicle. It often takes hours or days just to locate where, in fact, your vehicle has gone. When you do, the rates for storage can be excessively high, especially if you are not opting to repair your vehicle at their shop.

Of course, the current system requires the owner to be notified by 60 days. This is unfair and takes advantage of accident victims who could have been in the hospital unaware that there are costs accumulating. So again, reform in this area is something I think we can all support.

Speaker, in conclusion, I have said that this, of course, is a step in the right direction for reducing auto insurance rates. It has certainly been a long journey for these reforms. I know that in each election, especially the last and the one before that, insurance rates were something that were talked about a lot. It was predominantly the major issue that allowed the government to perhaps survive in the 2013 budget—with the NDP’s support, of course.

We’ve heard from stakeholders along the way, advocates for accident victims and, in fact, the towing industry, who do still have some concerns about this bill. I feel it’s vital that we open our ears and listen to those concerns from those who deal with these issues each and every day on the front lines, and see where improvements can be made.

I want to make special mention of Kitchener-Waterloo and the riding of Kitchener–Conestoga. We have a very active insurance industry within the region. In fact, some of our largest employers within the region of Waterloo are insurance companies, and we can’t forget our insurance brokers, who provide front-line support for those who, unfortunately, have to deal with accidents, whether it be home or auto. We want to thank them for everything they do in our communities, especially within the region of Waterloo. Some of our premier insurance companies employ thousands and thousands of people and are extremely great corporate citizens within the region, so I want to thank them.

In conclusion, as I had mentioned, there will be some amendments that need to be made before, I believe, we are able to support this bill entirely. I look forward to seeing some of those issues addressed in committee. I do hope that they look back to the plan that, again, my colleague from Elgin–Middlesex–London, Jeff Yurek, put together, part of the PC action plan on combating insurance fraud especially, and incorporate those into the suggestions of the bill going forward so that we can move forward and tackle this ever-important issue that really stems from border to border throughout the province of Ontario. Thank you, Speaker, for the time today. I’ll leave it at that.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I thought the presentation made by the honourable member was actually fairly well done, in the sense that it spoke to the actual issues. For that, I commend him.

However, I think the spirit of what the government is trying to do in this legislation is to try to bring the 15% reduction to fruition. We understand that, but this bill, quite frankly, gives auto insurers far more than what they need. There is already enough money in the system, with all of the gifts that the government has given the insurance companies when it comes to previous changes to the act, that allow them to have savings of over $2.5 billion—certainly, to God, they can find the 15% savings in this.

What we’re doing with this bill, and where I depart from the honourable member’s comments, is we’re giving away things to insurance companies that at the end of the day are going to take away rights from accident victims: the ability to deal, for example, with the issue of interest on a settlement. Currently, if a settlement takes, let’s say, six or seven years, you get 5% on your money. What ends up happening—

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Thank you. Somebody pointed out that there’s no stay in my collar. Well, I’m going to stay around here just like that. How is that?

Anyway, the point is that the insurance companies currently have to pay 5% on the settlement if, let’s say, the settlement is five or six or seven years down the road. That is being very, very much reduced by way of this legislation. That is a give to the insurance companies, but nonetheless, if a person had got their settlement at the beginning they would have got at least 5% and they would have put it into the market. What you end up doing is giving the insurance companies yet another break, rather than giving that break directly to the consumer.

There are a number of other points in this legislation that my colleague the member from Kenora–Rainy River will raise in debate. I just want to say that we are the ones who pushed for the 15% reduction in auto insurance rates to drivers. That is the goal, but this particular legislation is more a gift to the insurance companies than it is to the consumer.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Chris Ballard: I am so delighted to hear that the official opposition agrees that Bill 15 goes a long way to addressing concerns that Ontario consumers have with regard to insurance.

The government, of course, is committed to keeping the auto insurance industry and system fair and affordable for the more than nine million drivers in Ontario. I can recall, from my years working in consumer advocacy, that fair and affordable automobile insurance was one of the main issues that was raised time and time again, and it was our pleasure to be able to work with the Insurance Bureau of Canada and brokers’ associations to make the system more fair and equitable.

Bill 15 will continue to reduce claim costs and uncertainty in the auto insurance system, and it will facilitate further rate reductions. Bill 15, as I said in the House the other day, will also reduce fraud, which will impact on the reduction of rates.

We all know that fraud and abuse of the system increase claim costs and lead to higher rates for drivers. In fact, research conducted has estimated that auto insurance fraud cost Ontario consumers between $770 million and $1.6 billion in 2010. That needs to be stopped.

Bill 15 continues the government’s work to combat auto insurance fraud. It’s going to transform the auto insurance dispute resolution system. It’s going to introduce provincial regulation of the vehicle towing industry. It’s going to modernize insurance agent and adjuster disciplinary hearings. It’s going to provide authority to address abusive vehicle storage issues identified by the task force. I know that these are issues that are important to my constituents.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Gila Martow: I want to thank my colleague from Kitchener–Conestoga for all of his research into this topic, which I think is of utmost importance to all of us.

I actually did my own research last year. I was doing some work for Rogers cable TV, and I had two representatives of the Insurance Bureau of Canada as guests. They laughed when I said to them that my riding of Thornhill has been told for years that we are the worst drivers in the province and that’s why we have the highest insurance rates. I guess we all believed them, and we just took it. We had no choice. We had to pay the highest insurance rates.

It turned out that there was a huge ring of insurance fraud that was operating out of Vaughan, and 15 people were arrested last year. It was a very long investigation. It was exactly what the member from Kitchener–Conestoga mentioned. It’s set up; it’s cars that are in accidents every week. There doesn’t seem to be a system to track these cars that are in accidents. They’re put together with some foam and a bit of paint, and then they send them out on the road to stage another collision.

Why aren’t we having some kind of registry of serial numbers of cars and following the cars that are in multiple collisions where other cars are found to be at fault? Why aren’t we monitoring and checking up somehow on the notes of doctors and physiotherapists who supposedly are giving treatments, unbeknownst to them? Anybody can go to a print shop now and print up very official-looking letterhead or prescription pads.

We have to do better. It’s not enough to just say, “Let’s arbitrarily cut insurance by 10%, 15%.” Why don’t we just cut it by 50% while we’re at it? What we have to do is attack the things that are driving up the cost of insurance.

We don’t just look at our budget for our family and say, “Let’s just cut the food budget in half.” We have to do it smart. What we’re looking at now, thanks to the research from the member, are ways to cut it down.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I’m pleased to join the debate here this morning. We did debate the bill at length last night. I listened to my colleague, the member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton, who has been a champion on this issue not only for constituents in his riding but certainly for drivers across the province. He very eloquently and effectively dissected what we see, as New Democrats, as glaring inadequacies in this bill. He pointed back and gave us a chronology.

Members of the House will remember that in 2010, the government initiated some pretty heavy changes to the insurance industry that resulted in a 50% reduction in statutory accident benefit costs and, in some cases, a 70% reduction in those costs to insurance companies.

As a direct result of those changes, those insurance corporations in the province of Ontario benefited to the tune of $2 billion a year in extra profit. Now, you would think that in our free market system, in our capitalistic type system, that if a company is making more money hand over fist, record profits, then some of those profits would be turned back to the consumer in the way of price reduction or cost reduction in a competitive marketplace. But that didn’t happen. It boggles the mind. In fact, in many areas of the province, even with those changes, auto insurance rates have increased.

What we see in this bill is another gift, and we have a serious problem right in the title of the bill, Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates. It should be retitled “It’s a great day to be an insurance company in the province of Ontario because you are going to make record profits,” potentially. That’s what we see as the effect of this bill. There is a high emphasis on fraud in this bill, and we definitely have to look at the root causes of fraud. Let’s look at greed inherent in the insurance system and ensure that there is some fairness. It is your responsibility as regulators.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I now refer back to the member from Kitchener–Conestoga.

Mr. Michael Harris: I would like to thank those who chimed in for a couple of minutes in response to my 20 minutes on Bill 15, the Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act: the member from Timmins–James Bay, the new member from Newmarket–Aurora, my colleague from Thornhill and, finally, my southwestern friend, down the road, from Essex. Thank you very much.

I think we hear fraud talked about a lot, clearly, each and every day when we think of automobile insurance. There are just too many stories out there that we’ve all heard about. Whether they’re legitimate accidents or there is a fraudulent motive behind them, we have to get to the root of those problems.

Of course, Ontarians need auto insurance, and they expect that it’s there for them when they need it the most for a variety of reasons. But I do think it’s important to go back and talk about the aspects that my colleague from Elgin–Middlesex–London and our party put forward last session to remind the government that they’re important to perhaps adopt as they move forward. We’ve talked about encouraging competition, reducing excess bureaucracy by developing a file-and-use rate-setting process that will allow companies to lower prices quicker, really ensuring greater market competitiveness, and encouraging a wider range of discount offerings for Ontario drivers.

We’ve talked about reforming the dispute resolution process so that, in the event of a claims dispute, people could opt for private mediation in order to reduce wait times. Of course, combating fraud is one of the biggest aspects of it, because it has such a debilitating effect on insurance industry rates. I think we all understand the need to establish a special unit in the crown attorney’s office to investigate and prosecute fraud.

I’ll leave it at that, Speaker, and I look forward to the comments from the rest of my colleagues.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate? The member from Kenora–Rainy River.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: Thank you, Speaker. I’d like to say good morning to you as well as the members of this House and the folks who are watching from home. Today we’re talking about a very important topic, and that is auto insurance rates, which is something that acutely affects the folks who live in my riding of Kenora–Rainy River.

I don’t think there’s any question that we need to make some significant reforms to auto insurance across the province. People are stretched to the max, and they can’t afford the essentials. Many people are struggling just to find jobs and to stay afloat. Certainly, we see that in Kenora–Rainy River. Auto insurance rates are another cost that people are concerned about because the premiums keep escalating, and yet insurance is mandatory if people need to drive. In the north, of course, we have to drive. We don’t have the luxury of public transportation. That’s something I’ve talked about a fair bit since being elected.

The other point is that we’ve seen a fairly significant downturn in our economy in the northwest. That has put many people in the unenviable position of needing to travel for work. We’re seeing a lot of people who are doing the regular commute to Alberta. To do that, of course, means that they have to pay for all the expenses that go along with it, everything from a driver’s licence, vehicle payments, maintenance, snow tires—which, of course, is a reality in the north—gasoline and what we’re talking about today: auto insurance.

It is no wonder that in 2013, 90% of the respondents to my annual budget survey said that lower auto insurance premiums are either a high or an extremely high priority for them in their everyday lives.

People are also struggling to understand why rates are so high. In 2010, which has already been mentioned this morning, this government made changes that benefited the auto insurance industry greatly, where premiums increased and accident benefits were slashed. In fact, benefits were essentially halved. I’ll never forget the volume of people who came forward to the constituency office with their previous and current years’ coverage details in hand, asking, “How can this be? How can it be that our benefits are essentially halved yet we are paying more?

How could it possibly be allowed to happen?” I recall even then how people were struggling to stay afloat. The response from the government was, of course, that these changes would be in turn passed down to consumers and that they would see substantial savings.

In this House, when we’ve debated this bill previously, I also mentioned the fact that I was in, I guess you could say, possibly the wrong place at the wrong time and was involved in a head-on collision just outside my house on the Trans-Canada Highway. It was on or about August 26, 2010. I didn’t really, at that time, know the significance of that, but when I went to seek some aftercare, going to see the chiropractor and these kinds of things, there was a lot concern that my treating specialists were giving me, because they said that if I would have had my accident four days later, I wouldn’t have been entitled to anywhere near the same benefits as just being hit those four days prior.

Again, with all those folks who have come into the office, we have seen that those changes have not been passed on to consumers. That argument, that by making some of those changes that those savings would be passed on to consumers, sounds a little like what we’re talking about today. Here we are four years later, talking about making some significant changes, and we’re told that if consumers kind of tighten their belts and kind of take their lumps, we’ll see that translate into premiums. But I’m not so sure. I’m not so convinced, because we have heard this before and it hasn’t translated into those savings. We never did see those other savings materialize.

Ontarians are expecting this government to lower auto insurance premiums as they promised in their 2013 budget. This was a big reason why I chose to support the 2013 budget, but this government has failed to deliver those changes as promised. Just bringing back a little bit of a reminder to folks: That’s one of the big reasons why I decided that I couldn’t support the 2014 budget, because in 2013, we carefully negotiated a very small list of things—about five things. Then we flash forward a year later and we didn’t see any action on those five simple, very-easy-to-implement things.

So I didn’t have any confidence at that point that this government would then be able to reasonably implement the 70-plus promises that were in this 2014 budget.

The fact is that costs need to go down, but the question is, are these proposed changes the answer? I think in order to really assess that, we need to look at some of the changes that this government seeks. I’m going to look at three particular changes.

The first is with respect to tow and storage services. My concern with this aspect is that it leaves so much up to regulation. I just wanted to reference the part of the explanatory note that I’m referring to. There are some changes that are being made to the Highway Traffic Act. It reads, “The Highway Traffic Act is amended in two main areas: the regulation of commercial motor vehicles and tow trucks and enforcement of the act generally by the addition of administrative penalties.

“In respect of commercial motor vehicles, the act is amended as follows”—I’m just going to read two points. The first is “to repeal the definition of ‘commercial motor vehicle’ in subsection 16(1) of the act and replace it with the authority to define the term by regulation.” Then if you flip the page, point 5: “To prohibit drivers and other persons in charge of tow trucks from engaging in activities prescribed by regulation.”

Here we are, debating whether we are going to agree to something in principle, but we don’t know the details. To me, that’s concerning. Further to that, it goes on to talk about general enforcement and some of the penalties, which are not to exceed $20,000. This is significant.

I don’t think that this type of language and this type of approach bodes well for a government that has been anything but transparent. We’ve seen Ornge, we’ve seen eHealth, the gas plants, and now the Pan Am Games, and some of the secrecy around the privatization of our public assets like Hydro One, OPG and the LCBO.

I find it—and I’m sure many Ontarians find it—a little difficult to trust that this government will go into the backrooms to supplement the bill with regulations that will actually help the people of this province.

If anything, I believe that we need to keep a bright light shining on every nook and cranny of this government. Just approving something carte blanche, with a very rough skeletal frame, is not the way to go.

The second piece I wanted to review is dispute resolutions, especially the statutory accident benefits.

Ontario has a hybrid insurance system that accommodates both tort—which is negligence, pain and suffering—and no-fault claims, such as accident benefits, home care and income replacement, among others.

Some cases have both a tort and a no-fault component. Prohibiting the court system as an option for all disputes with a no-fault component means that a claimant with both a tort and a no-fault case will have to appear in court and in front of a tribunal separately. This change essentially removes the court option as an avenue of appeal on the no-fault side. This is confusing, and it’s expensive for the victim, who will have to pay the added costs of having a representative represent them when it comes to the two different levels.

If anything, we should be wanting to streamline some of these changes and make it easier for accident victims to pursue their rights. This is, as I see it, very much a step backwards.

The third aspect that I wanted to look at in terms of this bill is prejudgment interest and some of the changes around that. Prejudgment interest is the amount of interest an insurance company needs to pay, based on the length of time it takes from the incident to the resolution. It is presently set at 5% of whatever the total is determined to be for pain and suffering. This amount can be significant for insurance companies, and it acts as a deterrent to dragging on a settlement.

Presently, a pain-and-suffering award of, say, $50,000 that has been delayed by three years would result in an additional $7,500 being paid in interest to the victim. Under these proposed changes, however, that same pain-and-suffering award of $50,000 that has been delayed by three years would only be subject to a prejudgment interest rate of 1.3%. That would translate to about $1,950, so it’s going from 5% down to 1.3%.

I would say it’s in everyone’s best interest to resolve these things quickly but, really, for the victim of an accident, it’s through no fault of their own that they find themselves in these situations. We need to make sure that we have timely compensation for them. It really doesn’t encourage insurance companies to settle within a reasonable amount of time, and it’s really not fair for accident victims.

In

summary of some of the things that I’ve talked about, there’s no doubt that we need to bring insurance premiums down in the province of Ontario. Not only do they need to be reduced, but I believe they need to be reduced in favour of the consumer. As mentioned, 90% of my constituents in Kenora–Rainy River have identified lower auto insurance premiums as a high or extremely high priority for them.

The other point that needs to be made is that auto insurance is a mandatory service. It’s not a luxury add-on that drivers can opt in to purchase. I believe, consequently, that we have an obligation to provide this essential service in a manner that is as lean as possible with as little overhead and superfluous charges as possible.

The purpose of auto insurance should be to provide coverage if the worst happens, not line the pockets or pad the wallets of folks in the insurance industry. That’s where I really have to take issue with the previous speaker, the member from the Conservative caucus, arguing that companies are leaving Ontario in droves. I think this legislation, as it is currently proposed, largely benefits the auto insurance industry. Is the auto insurance industry upset about the previously negotiated 15% reduction? I imagine they are. Are they doing all they can to bolster their profits? Sure.

I would argue that that’s the nature of business. But make no mistake: The industry is not poor. I would argue that those who are poor or struggling to get by are essentially the people of this province who are struggling already to make ends meet. They are the ones who deserve our attention right now. They are simply asking for some balance to the system—balance—and I think that’s fair.

In 2010, as I mentioned, there were substantial changes made on the part of this government to assist the auto insurance industry in reducing their costs, but despite changes to reduce costs, these savings have not been passed on to consumers. It has been reported that there was only one company that passed on these savings to their consumers. So when it comes to these changes, which are largely seen to benefit the auto insurance industry, people are understandably skeptical. Are these changes even going to result in any substantial savings for consumers?

However, it needs to be said that reducing auto insurance fraud is always an important target. It’s something that we should be striving towards.

The problem with the proposed changes in this bill—

Interruption.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: It seems that my House leader is very important this morning.

To continue on, the problem with the changes in this bill is that they aren’t balanced or fair for consumers. Whether it is reducing the prejudgment interest rate or increasing legal representation costs by forcing victims to bring forward tort and no-fault claims separately through a court and tribunal and removing some of their appeal options, it’s not positive for consumers.

Some of these points, as I mentioned, are so vague that we don’t know what the government plans to do with them, such as making unspecified changes to the commercial motor vehicle definition, imposing restrictions on CVOR certificates and some other things. I would argue that we are beyond the point of giving this government the benefit of the doubt when it comes to sketching out the details later on in the backroom.

The bottom line is that there are other ways to bring down auto insurance premiums by 15% across this province, and there are other places to squeeze. But paying for the reductions out of the pockets of accident victims is disgusting and it’s wrong.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The Minister of Agriculture.

Hon. Jeff Leal: Food and Rural Affairs.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Food and Rural Affairs.

Hon. Jeff Leal: They all go together. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I had the opportunity to listen to the speech this morning on Bill 15 by my colleague from Kenora–Rainy River. I’d just like to highlight a great insurance company in the riding of Peterborough, Topping Insurance. Karan and I have had our auto insurance with them for a considerable number of years—a great family-owned company that provides wonderful service to the community of Peterborough. I do know that Topping Insurance has been working hard to decrease the auto insurance for the great constituents of Peterborough by 15%.

It’s always good to have a New Democrat talk about how our policy is very effective. I just got a note here: There was an NDP candidate in the wonderful riding of Burlington, Ontario—a great community. I’m sorry; he was the Halton candidate, not Burlington. I stand corrected. He said in a tweet, “Just got my latest car insurance payment update + I’m paying $22 less a month!” That’s an interesting observation by an NDP candidate from the wonderful riding of Halton.

Here’s another one. Mr. Speaker, I think this photo op took place in your riding of Scarborough–Rouge River, with the leader of the third party.

Andrea Horwath: “Have you seen a big decrease in your auto insurance rates?”

Supporter nods yes off-camera.

Horwath: “You’ve seen any decreases lately?”

“Yes, and I’ve seen substantial decreases under the Liberal program of reducing auto insurance by 15%.”

I’m told that that photo op went by very, very quickly, and the leader of the third party shuffled quickly away from that situation.

Our plan is working—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Questions and comments?

Mrs. Gila Martow: I guess if you say it enough times you start to believe it.

I would like to point out that, as I said previously, a lot of people in Thornhill were surprised to find out that their insurance rates were so high because of insurance fraud, and not only the drivers. York region police officers seemed a bit taken aback by the news as well, that there was such a level of insurance fraud.

In fact, one of the officers said to me that she was a bit chagrined, she was a bit embarrassed even, because she had so many times where she came to investigate collisions where drivers said, “He just slammed on his brakes in front of me for absolutely no reason,” or “They waved to me to go ahead at the stop sign, and when I started to go, they drove into me; it looks like I’m at fault, but I really am not at fault,” or “They were trying to push me off the road” or whatever.

The police officer just felt that these are people who don’t want to be found at fault and don’t want to be ticketed, and they’re making up stories. What I’m suggesting, obviously, is now that things have been investigated, we’re all aware that these aren’t just stories. These aren’t just people trying to defend themselves. Maybe we should be looking a little closer.

As I said before, I think it starts with the cars that are in these staged collisions. Why are we not looking at why some cars are in so many collisions? It doesn’t matter who the driver is; they’re smart enough to change drivers, because we do tend to follow the drivers around when there are accidents. But we’re not looking at the actual cars that they’re driving and seeing if this car has been in multiple accidents—changing ownership, changing plates, whatever it is they have to do to keep using the cars for these staged collisions. I think that’s where our investigation has to be.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cindy Forster: I want to thank the member from Kenora–Rainy River for her remarks about Bill 15.

We have been talking about this auto insurance issue for the three years that I have been here, and I’ve been listening to the members of the government say, “Well, you know what? You just need to go shop around. It’s like going out and buying a new washing machine. You can get a good price if you actually go and shop around.” But you know, I’ve done that. I have actually gone online to try to shop around, and I can tell you, there isn’t very much difference in prices between any of the companies that are offering auto insurance, which is mandatory here in the province.

The Liberal government promised to reduce auto insurance rates by 15%. Their target was 8% for August of this year. They haven’t got there. I can tell you, in my community and many communities across this province, people have not seen a reduction in their auto insurance. Now, the Minister of Agriculture talked about somebody saying they had a $22 reduction, but on what premium? If they had a $22 reduction on a $2,200 premium for the year, that’s 1%, Speaker.

The issue of accident victims and the issue of actually taking away that 5% penalty will have huge negative impacts on victims. I can tell you, my next-door neighbours were in an accident about six years ago. It was six years before they actually got a settlement on that case, people who are 85 years old. Their health benefits and housekeeping benefits were all cut off after two years. They’re paying out of their own pockets to keep going in their house while they’re waiting for these things to actually solidify and get a payment. I think that we really need to make sure, if we’re bringing forward bills, that they’re actually going to benefit the victims.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Arthur Potts: I’m absolutely delighted once again to stand on behalf of the government’s bill. There’s a whole new spirit of co-operation, I’m sensing, in this House since the election, this being the second bill I’ve had a chance to speak to.

The member from Kenora–Rainy River had some interesting ideas that she wants to bring forward at the committee, and we look forward to hearing them. But what I continue to hear is widespread support for the general direction of the bill, from the member from Thornhill as well.

We are getting at fraud. We all recognize that fraud is an important part of why insurance premiums are higher than they should be. Every one of us has experienced a situation, I’m sure, where someone they know or they have personally been involved in a situation where there was fraud in the system.

In my own life, I was in a car with my mother, driving on the 401 in a snowstorm. We were going about 50 kilometres an hour. There was no speed violations involved; we were driving with the conditions. A car took us out. Another car came from behind and clipped the back of our vehicle.

I stood with this woman on the side of the road for over an hour and a half, waiting for tow trucks to clear out the mess. She had no problems—nothing. She wasn’t injured. And I was surprised: A year and a half later, we get a frivolous lawsuit coming down, making my mother, at 86 years of age—whipping her into a frenzy for some woman who had found a lawyer who was going to go forward and go after the insurance company to see what she could get.

The cost of litigation is so high that insurance companies are recognizing that sometimes it’s better just to settle. It’s unfortunate that now people realize that just by putting in an application, they’ll get a settlement. That is increasing the cost of writing insurance.

It’s not about consumer protection measures. It’s really about rooting out the fraud so that we keep the settlements down and keep our premiums down.

The notion of prejudgment interest is not meant to be a stick to force insurance companies to settle. It’s meant to compensate people for the reasonable cost associated with the length of time so that if legitimate claims come forward, they will be legitimately compensated for the cost of living during that period.

Thank you for supporting this bill. The co-operation is appreciated.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Now I go to the member for Kenora–Rainy River. You have two minutes for your response.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I would like to thank the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs as well as the members from Thornhill, Welland and Beaches–East York for their comments.

I don’t know that I would go as far as saying you have my widespread support or that there is necessarily widespread support in this chamber. I think there is a general agreement in this House that we do need to look at fraud, but we also need to look at a bunch of other things. We need to look at making the system more fair for everyone who is involved.

I don’t believe that cutting costs for the industry is the way to achieve balance in the system. I believe very much that we’ve been there, and we’ve done that. We’ve seen those efforts on the part of this government in 2010, and we’ve seen how those haven’t translated into savings.

With regard to the member from Beaches–East York’s comments about how the prejudgment interest isn’t intended to be a stick to be used against the insurance companies, that it’s meant to compensate people for their legitimately lost income if this had been settled faster, I would argue that it’s already an un-level playing field. Right? Insurance companies have very, very deep pockets. They have all sorts of lawyers on staff. That’s what they do. This is like a big part of their business. I think there needs to be some kind of an incentive to wrap this stuff up quickly.

Having seen first-hand some of these accident victims who have struggled with going long periods of time without being paid, I would just say that we have to do that.

I look forward to this going to committee to examine this issue fully and to broaden the range of some of the options that we pursue in terms of restoring balance to this system.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Bob Delaney: Two summers ago, I had the interesting task, after finishing the consideration of the government’s first budget in its minority government, of then taking the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs on a bit of a cross-province tour to listen to people talk about auto insurance. One of the interesting parts wasn’t so much who came as who didn’t. Who didn’t come were any of the insurance companies.

While we learned an awful lot about how to skew the system in favour of one party or another, one of the parties who seemed to be very satisfied with the status quo was the actual insurance companies. I thought it was unforgivable then, and I consider it to be unforgivable today.

Some of the things we found out, at the time, that the province has been trying to incorporate into legislation are worth bringing back and mentioning here. The province would probably have been a lot further along in incorporating some of these badly needed changes into legislation had the Conservatives and the New Democrats not stalled and filibustered and, for that matter, provoked an election this spring—although I have no trouble with the outcome, Speaker.

I really do think that the people of Ontario, when they had a chance to pronounce judgment on the performance of the government, on all of its files, including this insurance file, said, “We like the direction that you’re going. For heaven’s sake, keep it up.”

Let’s talk a little about some of the things that we found out, which the province has been trying to fix, and that we need all-party consent to get fixed. For example, Speaker, one of the problems we face right now is that it’s very possible to take a car that has been junked and get it back on the road. One of the ways is, you simply don’t fix it. You just wire the thing together and a car that’s still mechanically unsound can often be back on the road within a day or two. That’s wrong. It’s those types of cars that are driving our insurance premiums up.

One of the other things is that when you bring in your car, your insurance company is going to say, “I’m going to approve fixing your car, but you’re not going to be able to use parts from the original equipment manufacturer. You’ve got to use off-brand parts,” or “You’ve got to use reconditioned parts.” That’s going to put a car back on the road that’s very likely to have a mechanical failure not that far along. That’s wrong. As a province, we have to address that issue.

If it is a car going back on the road after having been fixed, particularly after a motor vehicle accident, it has to go on the road with proper parts. It can’t go on the road with parts that are made by a less-than-reputable manufacturer and that are likely to fail again. We need the help of both opposition parties to get measures like that passed.

Some of the other problems: some of the bogus accident insurance claims. I remember hosting one of the larger insurance underwriters in my office. They were talking about this, and I cut them short and said, “As the insurance industry, how many of these bogus clinics have you guys shut down this year?” After a long pause, it was, “Well, er, um, actually, none.” Let’s give them some credit.

A year later when they came back to see me, I said, “How many of these clinics have you shut down?” and they actually had a narrative to show the litigation that they had begun against some of the bogus accident and physio clinics. I thought, now they’ve got some credibility; now we’re seeing what the industry is doing.

This is a two-way street. This is not just the government saying, “We’ve got to fix this.” We, the province of Ontario, don’t have public auto insurance. We feel this need is best served by the private sector, and so far, I’m still okay with that. I don’t think that the taxpayer needs to replicate an entire insurance industry and spend several billion dollars on setting it up before we write the first insurance premium. I still think that’s not the right way to go. I still think the private sector can do a better job.

However, if you really want to see a nice system of executive salaries and bonuses, have a look at the ones in the insurance companies. They do very well, thank you.

We’ve been after the insurance companies to put some teeth into their actions and to go after the bad actors, to go after the body shops that do shoddy work, to go after the phony accident claims, not just to pay them off. Paying them off means that they take the cost of fraud, they mark it up and they pass it directly on to you. That’s not acceptable. That’s part of what our Ministry of Finance has been working with the auto insurance industry to get down.

We can no longer have them shrug their shoulders and accept fraud as a cost of doing business, mark it up, add on a profit component and pass it along to you in the form of higher premiums. That’s not acceptable at all. We need the assistance of both the Conservatives and the New Democrats to get strong, assertive measures passed to make sure that stops happening.

Let’s go on with some of the things that continue to happen, things I found out in our deliberations two years ago and things I still get visits from some of the participants in the industry to talk about: tow truck drivers who will haul a car to a repair facility—in this House—that’s paying them off. It’s not acceptable. We need some real teeth in legislation that deals with the towing industry. There are a lot of good people in the towing industry. I remember having a neighbour who was a tow truck driver, and he told me what practices he felt were objectionable within that industry.

So we cannot have tow truck drivers deciding that they’re going to become part of it and just say, “Why don’t I get mine, too?” As a tow truck driver, you’re there to provide a service, and that’s to take a vehicle that is broken down or been in an accident to the repair facility of the driver’s choice, and to bring it to a repair facility that is going to look after that car and that driver at their choice, not yours.

The other thing: I had a visitor to my office, a lawyer, and he said, “Here’s one of the things that we’re finding. A lot of ads that you see on radio and on television and a lot of the billboards and print ads talk about auto accident insurance injury claims. Well, who do you think is paying for all of those ads? You are. You’re paying for them in the form of higher insurance premiums.”

How about the practice that this lawyer alleged happens, in which the law firm has an honorarium if you’re going to refer—perhaps as a hospital admitting nurse or a surgeon—a case to them to handle? Now, who do you think is paying for that? You are, in the form of higher insurance premiums. We need the help of the New Democrats and the Conservatives to get to the bottom of that and to make sure that that doesn’t happen, because that can take money off of your insurance policy.

Distracted driving is something that the police have talked to me about. Here’s something that I didn’t know: To the insurance companies, a distracted driving conviction can affect your insurance rates almost as much, if not as much, as a driving-while-impaired conviction. So I actually have to just sort of break my train of thought to say to everybody in Ontario: Take the cellphone and either put on a Bluetooth headset, or if you have a car with Bluetooth, learn how to use it, but don’t operate the thing with your hands.

I have listened to police officers say that they’re trying to be sensible in this because it’s now an expensive fine and it’s now three demerit points; they’re reluctant to take somebody and say, “All right, this is going to cost you a lot of money. It’s going to put three demerit points on your record, and when your insurance company discovers that this is what you’ve been fined for, you’re going to get whacked with a much higher insurance premium.” That’s one that’s completely, absolutely preventable.

I have to ask people in Ontario, if you have to have your cellphone with you in the car—put the thing in, charge it up—that’s great, but we shouldn’t be using them in the car. That includes when you’re stopped at a traffic light. That includes the time that you’re stopped at a traffic light. Don’t use the thing in the car. It is going to cost you money.

Another of the things that we need the help of the opposition for, to pass legislation with teeth to get out of the system and to address, would be getting the vehicle insurance numbers of junk cars reinstated—putting reconditioned but properly junked cars back on the road. There’s a whole host of ways that you can do this, and we need the co-operation of the opposition to pass legislation with teeth to make sure that this doesn’t happen anymore.

Another way that they play games is to have a minor collision, one that’s easily repairable. The insurance company will just write off the car. That’s the opposite problem. First, there’s the problem of taking a car that shouldn’t be on the road—and discovering that within days it’s back on the road; another that hits you in the form of higher premiums would be taking a car that is easily repairable and writing off a car that should be repaired and put back on the road, which is, again, a much larger cost to the insurance company, which is marked up and passed along to you in the form of higher premiums—absolutely, positively wrong and indefensible.

While the province claims the rates are down by 3% or so—the numbers from FSCO—all of us in our constituency offices, of course, have had people who have come in and said, “Well, actually, my insurance premiums are higher.” I can understand that, because during July, August and September, I had to pay my home insurance, higher; my other half’s car insurance, the same; and my car insurance, the same. That’s now the Travelers insurance company; it used to be the Dominion of Canada.

I called up my insurance company and said, “Where’s my discount? I should actually have a discount. I haven’t moved. I haven’t moved, and I haven’t been in an accident.”

Hon. Jeff Leal: Bob, bully them to death. Bully them.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Exactly. Don’t heckle me, because you’re on my side.

I said, “So how does it come to pass, if insurance premiums should be going down, that my insurance premiums have not gone down?”

I discovered that what they do is they just change the classification for the postal code in which you live. They reclassify the postal code in which you live, and they say, “Well, your classification is up, but your rates are down, so the net effect to you is the same.” Oh, come on.

Applause.

Mr. Bob Delaney: I think I’m touching a responsive chord here.

While the province can do a lot of things in the way of legislative changes—and I’m going to come back to my theme—we need the help of our colleagues. In this, we’re all on the same side. We’re all on the side of the person who pays those auto insurance premiums. That’s the person whose interests all three parties here have to keep paramount.

We’ve got to keep these bills moving through committee. We’ve got to get them passed, we’ve got to get them enacted, and we’ve got to put some teeth into them. We’ve got to make sure, when that legislation is enacted, that the insurance companies actually obey the law and bring our premiums down, and that they don’t recapture them in the form of higher executive compensation and other assorted little games that they play.

Let me come back to the bill. Some of the rate changes for individual drivers, however, do vary, and let’s talk about some of the factors that determine what premium you may pay.

Your driving record does matter. Sometimes people have come to us and they’ve said, “My premiums went up.” It turns out, as you’ve explored it with some extra questioning, that in fact their driving record changed. In other words, they had some convictions. If you’ve got a record of convictions, you can expect your insurance policy premiums to rise.

It’s worth shopping around at the time that your premiums are up. It’s worth actually finding an insurance company that is going to give you accident forgiveness on the first incident. That means that the first time you’re in an accident—which can happen. You can have a spotless record for years or decades, and you end up in a fender-bender if you hit a patch of ice or a patch of wet road. That doesn’t make you a bad driver.

We need the insurance companies to be able to take into account the fact that good drivers—people with impeccable records for many years or many decades—can hit a patch of ice, can hit a wet road, can hit something that will cause a minor fender-bender. It shouldn’t send your policy premiums through the roof. Our measures with regard to insurance have to make sure that insurance companies have a reasonableness test when it comes to adjusting premiums.

Your premiums vary with the type of car that you drive, so it’s reasonable to assume that if you get a new car, there’s likely to be a premium change. If you are upgrading the value of your car, you’re likely to see a higher premium. If you’re going from driving a top-end car to a more economical car, you’re also likely to see a decrease in your premiums, and that’s where it also pays to shop around.

It does depend on where you live, and this is something that I disagree with. I don’t think it should depend on where you personally live. If there’s a statistically higher incidence of fraud in the area where you live or the postal code where you live, that shouldn’t penalize a good driver. I have never, ever accepted that argument, and I never will.

I remember having a discussion with one of the insurance brokers out in Streetsville, where we were talking about that. I said, “I had a public meeting the other day. There were about 50 people at it, and what they were saying to me at the meeting was that if you’re a new Canadian and you live in Brampton, you can’t find an insurance carrier that’s willing to insure you.”

He laughed and said, “Bob, it’s not if you’re a new Canadian. They don’t want to insure anybody in Brampton.” I said, “Why?” He said, “It’s because of the incidence of fraud.”

I said, “So how should that penalize someone who lives in Brampton, who has driven responsibly and obeyed the law and has a spotless record? Owing to where they live, they can’t find an insurance carrier to insure them?”

Speaker, I think have you a message for us.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Seeing the time on the clock, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Speaker, I’d like to introduce a number of guests I have here today. We have Sandra Gibbons. Judy Legg is here. We have George Habib, president and CEO of the Ontario Lung Association. Andrea Stevens Lavigne, Chris Yaccato, John Chenery and Carole Madeley are all from the lung association.

We also have Noah Farber, who was here earlier and has left, from the Asthma Society of Canada, as we debate Ryan’s Law this afternoon.

Hon. Jeff Leal: It is my pleasure to introduce in the east members’ gallery today Debbie Bolter, who is a constituent of mine in Peterborough, and at a silent auction, bid on lunch with an MPP. We certainly welcome her to Queen’s Park today.

Mr. Bill Walker: I’d like to introduce former MPP Rob Milligan from Northumberland–Quinte West. He’s bringing his school here to Queen’s Park today, if they’re not already in the gallery, and I’d like to welcome him back to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Bob Delaney: On behalf of my colleague from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell, it’s my pleasure to recognize today’s page captain, Lily-Anne Villemaire. Her mother, Judy Wilcox, will be in the members’ gallery this morning. I hope members join me in greeting them.

Mr. John Vanthof: On behalf of my colleague, the MPP for Bramalea–Gore–Malton, I’d like to introduce today’s page captain, Jagmeet Mangat, and his mother, Kulbir Singh, and his brother Ranbir Mangat. They’ll be in the members’ gallery. Welcome.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’d like to introduce constituents of mine who are here for lunch with me today and great supporters: Phil LeBruyne and Susan Robillard.

Nathan Cirillo

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek on a point of order.

Mr. Paul Miller: Thank you.

We are all deeply saddened by the tragic loss yesterday of Corporal Nathan Cirillo of Hamilton’s Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders regiment, who was one of my constituents. We are grateful for the brave men and women, like Corporal Cirillo, who give their lives in service to our country, something we share in common with all Ontarians.

I am requesting unanimous consent to have a book of condolence placed in the main lobby of the Legislative Building so that we and other Ontarians can pay our respects to this brave young father.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek is seeking unanimous consent to put a book of condolence in the main lobby. Do we agree? Agreed.

I thank the member for Hamilton East–Stoney Creek.

Shootings in Ottawa

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Nepean–Carleton on a point of order.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I’d like to start today’s question period, as a member of provincial Parliament from the nation’s capital, by giving our condolences as an assembly to the Canadian Forces soldier who was killed yesterday guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, a memorial in itself.

I’d like to thank our federal parliamentarians for showing the great unity that we had in our nation yesterday, and the Ottawa Police forces, our RCMP and the guards at Parliament Hill, our sacred seat of democracy.

There are several of us here from the nation’s capital and we are reminded that we are, in Ottawa, the guardians of every Canadian’s second hometown. Yesterday was quite a disturbing day. But despite our political colours here and where we came from in the rest of the province, our colleagues stood united here.

I would especially like to say thank you to the Premier and the two leaders of the official opposition for showing great unity yesterday for our colleagues. Your genuine kindness and concern for us with family and friends and constituents in the nation’s capital meant more to us than you will ever know.

To the staff of the Legislative Assembly who carried on, to the guards here and to our Sergeant-at-Arms and our Speaker, I want to say thank you to you as well. It was a tremendous show of respect.

A lot of us wanted to be at home yesterday. We couldn’t be. But if there was a place that we could be, it was right here with 106 other people who wanted to stand up for democracy and the values that we cherish, like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, and even freedom of the press.

Ladies and gentlemen, with that in mind, I would like us today to join with our federal colleagues and start our day by singing O Canada. I seek unanimous consent for that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for Nepean–Carleton is seeking unanimous consent to sing O Canada. Do we agree? Please rise.

Singing of O Canada.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Merci beaucoup.

It is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Public safety

Mr. Monte McNaughton: My question this morning is for the Premier and is regarding the security situation here in our province.

Premier, the tragic events yesterday morning in Ottawa shook our country. In the second brutal and violent act this week, we have seen another of Canada’s finest brutally murdered and we have seen our enemy strike out at the heart of our democracy and of our freedom.

Last night, my family, like many others across the province, gave thanks to the ceremonial guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and all it stands for, and we gave thanks to the Sergeant-at-Arms of the Commons as well.

Premier, can you please update our assembly on the efforts you are undertaking to work with all levels of government to ensure the safety and security of Ontario residents?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to reinforce what has already been said and to assure the House that the most important priority for our government and for all the members here is the safety and security of all Ontarians.

We send our thoughts and prayers to the family of the Canadian Forces reservist from Hamilton who lost his life yesterday, and to all of the people who were injured and their friends and families.

I also want to thank the members on all sides of the House for their unity yesterday in coming together.

To the question of what is being done at this point, the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services has reached out to his counterpart, Minister Steven Blaney, to the chief of Ottawa police, Charles Bordeleau, and to Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson to offer assistance. We want Ontarians to know that our police and our paramedics and firefighters are trained and are prepared for any eventuality.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Thank you very much, Premier. We all hugged our children a little tighter and a little longer last night as we were reminded of the daily risks undertaken by those who serve and by those who wear Her Majesty’s uniform.

We also know, as Prime Minister Harper said, that Canada will never be intimidated and that attacks like this will do nothing but strengthen our resolve to redouble our efforts.

Here at Queen’s Park, we’re thankful for the help and assistance of the Legislative Security Service; our own Sergeant-at-Arms, Dennis Clark; the Ontario Provincial Police and, of course, the Toronto Police Service.

Premier, can you please let us know if you are considering changes to strengthen security here at Queen’s Park as a result of the terrorism we witnessed yesterday in our nation’s capital?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Before I speak about the precinct here, I just want to also add that CSIS and the RCMP are sharing information with the OPP and with local police forces, and our local forces are working together. One of the most important things that the minister and I spoke about with the RCMP and the OPP yesterday was the co-ordination of efforts. That is ongoing, and it is important that every member in this House know that local police forces are also part of that network.

In terms of Queen’s Park, I want to take this opportunity to thank our security, both within Queen’s Park and throughout the whole precinct. Their professionalism and dedication is second to none, and we’re very, very, very grateful. I have every confidence in the abilities of the Legislative Security Service, and I certainly will leave it to the security services to make decisions about what provisions need to be made here at Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I will offer a little clarity that the Premier is correct: It’s the responsibility of the Speaker, as selected by the members, to take care of the security within the Legislature. We are consistently and ongoingly working with the Sergeant-at-Arms and the senior staff to ensure the safety and security of not just the members but all the people in this building, and we will keep you updated.

Supplementary, please.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and back to the Premier. There can be no doubt that yesterday’s attack was a direct strike at our democracy and at our freedom. As Canadians, we reject these tactics as cowardly. We pledge to remember and hold dear the life of Corporal Nathan Cirillo, and we pledge to never be intimidated.

Of course, Canada is not immune from these types attacks, from these types of tactics and from all this type of of terror. Yesterday we saw our Premier, the opposition, the Speaker and all members come together and work together for the good of the people and for the good of our communities.

Premier, how do you plan to continue to work with all members to ensure the safety and security of the towns and communities that we represent all across Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I expect and I propose that we continue to work in the non-partisan way that we have over the last 24 hours. The Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services has briefed cabinet and members of all three parties on the framework that we have in place to address threats of violence and what we know about the incident.

The minister continues to receive updates on a regular basis. He gets those updates from authorities. He will continue to work across the aisle to provide updates as they become available. I would just say to members opposite that if you have any questions, if there is anything that you are unsure about, please do not hesitate to speak with the minister because we will provide information as we can. But we also want you to know that if you have any questions, or if there are questions from your communities, please let us know about those so that we can share all the information that we have.

Interprovincial trade

Mr. Monte McNaughton: My next question is to the Premier. Yesterday and of course in the days and weeks ahead, our resolve as Canadians to never be intimidated will continually be tested as we seek to balance the need for order and security within our traditions of freedom and open democracy. We all have a renewed appreciation today for the vitality and stability of our country. It is important that we safeguard both the well-being and quality of life of the people of Ontario, and that is why I want to speak to you today in this question about the economy.

Economic security is about fostering opportunity and opening trade barriers that are preventing growth and prosperity from taking hold. Ultimately, it’s about creating jobs and growing our local economy in our communities.

Premier, the people of Ontario want to know, what are you doing today to tear down trade barriers, create jobs and ensure Ontario’s economic security?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, the member opposite will be happy to know that I am leaving for China on a trade mission with the Minister of International Trade and the Minister of Economic Development. That is all about finding ways to work in partnership, to look for opportunities and to connect businesses here in Ontario with opportunities in China. That is a major part of our economic strategy.

The member opposite will also be pleased to know, I think, that in my conversations with my colleague Premiers across the country, we are very intent on removing barriers. I am going to be speaking with Premier Couillard today and tomorrow in Niagara at the Chamber of Commerce economic summit. We are engaged right now in a conversation about how we can provide more openness between Ontario and Quebec and among provinces across the country. That is an active conversation among Premiers in this country.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Premier, you speak about travelling with the delegation to China to meet with friends and partners in Jiangsu province. You’re also going to stop, I understand, in Beijing and Shanghai to talk about how we can increase that relationship.

While I can appreciate your desire for these types of trips, the people of Ontario have far greater concerns right here at home. While you are focused on expensive international missions, provincial Premiers all across Canada are moving forward on a Canada-wide free trade zone, something that we discussed in this House back in July.

Premier, have you made any real progress on this front since we last spoke, or are you still refusing to work with Premier Brad Wall to get it done?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: That’s quite a remarkable question, given that I was fully a part of the conversation with the Council of the Federation. All of the Premiers across the country agree that this is an issue that we are engaged in. We are looking at the agreement on internal trade and we are making changes. We are updating it.

There is a little bit of an undercurrent in the member opposite’s question that somehow we haven’t done anything. That echoes what some members of the federal government have said, Mr. Speaker. It’s just not true. We are engaged, as Premiers, on making sure that we open up and solve the real problems and the real barriers to trade where they exist. We are not going after phantom barriers. We want it to be a very real process. That’s the exercise we’re engaged in. Where there is a real barrier, where there’s a real opportunity for improved trade, we are making those changes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Back to the Premier: While you are focused on your trip to China, within Canada there are significant trade barriers in numerous sectors, including energy, labour and procurement. These barriers are costing Ontario residents directly, with reduced opportunities, fewer jobs and higher consumer prices, and are something we simply cannot afford.

Premier, interprovincial trade makes up a huge percentage of Ontario’s economy and, because of that, the people of Ontario are counting on you to take the lead on important opportunities for our workers and employers.

In the spirit of working together, what specific actions will you commit to today to move forward with Ontario’s participation in the job-creating Canada-wide free trade zone?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m taking those actions. The member opposite is at least three months behind, because I am already working with my colleague Premiers to make sure that we find the opportunities to work together. I went to Quebec. I met with Premier Couillard. We talked about opportunities even before we went to the Council of the Federation meeting. We are working on breaking down those barriers.

I just want to take on the question about going to China.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Simcoe North, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: If the party opposite is going to propose that we, as a government, never travel internationally, that we never take the opportunity to go to other countries and create new markets, then I would say they are wrong-headed, they are not looking at the opportunities that exist for Ontario, and I reject that notion.

We must connect with other countries. We must turn our chairs outwards and we must become an exporting nation to other countries around the world.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Pretty good time for a junket.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Simcoe North: second time. Thank you.

New question.

Legislative precinct security

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday was a difficult day for Canadians. Over the coming weeks and months, we will all be looking for answers. This isn’t a time for partisanship. As Canadians, as Ontarians and as parliamentarians, we are part of a big family. I think we owe it to all Ontarians to make sure that their House, the House we are in now, is safe and open.

Does the Premier agree that we need to be thoughtful and balanced in the coming days and ensure we keep our proud tradition of openness and access to our Legislature alive?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I completely agree with that imperative. I think it’s extremely open. This is the people’s House, and it’s very important that we keep access to this House as open as possible.

At the same time, I have to make sure—we all have to make sure—that we abide by the advice from the Speaker and security authorities here in the precinct and beyond. The Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services is working with all levels of security authorities to make sure we have all the information that’s necessary, which we will share, as I said, with members of the opposition parties.

We will do everything in our power to make sure that this is a safe place and a functioning place for the people of this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: As an MPP, I am proud to walk the halls of Queen’s Park and see everyone from locals to visitors from across the globe visiting our Legislature. Of course, we need the legislative precinct to be safe. I believe that people from every corner of our province should feel welcome to come to our Legislature, whether it’s to see question period, visit their MPP or see the beautiful art on the walls. This place belongs to Ontarians.

Does the Premier commit to supporting that tradition, that this Legislature belongs to Ontarians and that we need to ensure they feel safe and welcome at all times?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I thank the member opposite for the question.

First of all, I want to pay my condolences and respect to the family and friends of Corporal Nathan Cirillo. The tragic incident that took place yesterday in Ottawa was in the heart of my community, the community of Ottawa Centre, which I have the great privilege of representing.

I have a lot of friends, and my own staff, who were engaged in the incident and lockdown at Parliament Hill. I want to thank all the members for their support yesterday and today. It made my job that much easier in terms of making sure we all are safe in our province.

Speaker, as you are well aware, matters around safety and security at Queen’s Park are totally within the purview of yourself, as the Speaker of this Legislature, and that of the Sergeant-at-Arms. We, of course, salute and thank the professionalism and dedication of all the security staff who work at Queen’s Park. We will leave it up to you and the security experts you rely on to make a determination as to the level of security at Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: Speaker, I think we all agree that this is a time for coming together. I want to take a moment, on behalf of our caucus, to thank our Sergeant-at-Arms and our team of professional Legislative Assembly security.

Does the Premier agree that our security protocols will need to be guided by facts and ensure we proceed rationally and calmly?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Again, thanks to the member for the question.

When it comes to the safety and security of the precinct at the Legislature, as I mentioned earlier, that is totally within your purview as the elected Speaker of this House. Of course, you, working with the Sergeant-at-Arms, will make those determinations, relying on expert opinion.

I want to assure the members of the House that, as the Premier mentioned earlier, we have very well-coordinated plans, working with the federal government. CSIS, the RCMP, the OPP and our local police services regularly exchange and share information so that we have effective plans in place.

Yesterday, as the incident developed, we saw all those plans being fully and properly activated, making sure that information was provided through the federal government to the OPP and through the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services to all local police services so they know exactly the steps they need to take.

Transit funding

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday, in estimates with the transportation minister, we learned, unfortunately, that promises that were made by the Liberal government during the campaign are not actually promises at all regarding transportation to Ontario communities but simply possibilities. Apparently, the dedicated transit funding that we also heard promises about means a multi-billion dollar transit loophole. We were promised dedicated transit funding, but there’s nothing dedicated about it, because there’s no legislation and there’s no regulation.

If “dedicated revenue” doesn’t actually mean that anything is dedicated, how does the Premier define “dedicated transit funding?”

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I hope folks will understand that I’m a little bit under the weather this morning, so my voice doesn’t sound as it normally does.

I think it’s unfortunate that the member who is asking us this question today wasn’t paying close enough attention to the really wonderful discussion that we had at estimates yesterday.

As I’ve said many times, both yesterday at committee and in this Legislature, we have an ambitious plan to move forward with investing $29 billion over the next decade in crucial public transit and transportation infrastructure.

Just yesterday, in fact, the Minister of Finance responded to a question in this House by making it very clear that the funding that needs to be in place for us to deliver these positive results for the people of Ontario is in place by virtue of not only our campaign commitments but the passage of the budget earlier this year.

Speaker, I would ask the member opposite to work with us. I know the people of her community want to see these positive results, and we will make them happen.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Sadly, I was paying attention, and I heard that the Niagara rail project may not happen, that Scarborough is just a pipe dream, that Hamilton may not happen. That’s what I heard.

This government likes to claim that they’re dedicated to transit, Mr. Speaker, but of course the fact is that transit revenue isn’t dedicated at all. So how can the Premier actually expect anyone to take their dedication to transit seriously?

It’s a direct question: Will the Premier promise Ontarians today and show her commitment to transit by bringing in legislation and regulations that ensure that dedicated transit funding actually goes into transit?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I’m really happy to have the chance to answer this question. It’s unfortunate that the member who is posing the question is choosing to hear, I suspect, what she wants to hear around this.

I think the people of her community, the people of the greater Toronto and Hamilton area and the people of Ontario want us to get past these kinds of games—the semantics; this notion of parsing words—and they actually want to see us deliver results.

She asked yesterday at committee whether or not we can trust what we’re doing as a government and what we propose to do. What I said to that member at committee, which I will repeat here today, is that what I have trust in is the people of Ontario. On June 12, they gave this Premier and this government the mandate to invest $29 billion over the next 10 years. I trust them. They’ve entrusted us, and we’re going to get the job done.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: What the people of Ontario heard was the Liberals promising dedicated transit funding and that the promised Trillium Trust would hold that money. That’s what they heard. But there is absolutely no guarantee that even a nickel will make it into the Trillium Trust.

I ask again: Will the Premier promise Ontarians today, and show her commitment to transit, by bringing in legislation and regulations that ensure dedicated transit funding actually goes into transit?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege of introducing a budget not once, but twice. I gave the opportunity for the members opposite to appreciate what it is we’re doing.

We are putting forward—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Okay. Thank you.

Finish, please.

Hon. Charles Sousa: In the book, and following discussions that we’ve had since, even with the public who went forward and read this book—probably more so than the opposition, by all counts—we talk about establishing a Trillium Trust, which would be the funnel to put forward all the funds and revenues and excesses that we do from those assets, to be put in that trust. As well, we’ve dedicated certain portions of our gas tax to transit.

Mr. Speaker, what is important to note is that we are building transit. The Minister of Transportation and this government are making the necessary investments, and we’re funding it through the Trillium Trust and other means.

Rondeau Provincial Park

Mr. Rick Nicholls: My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry. Minister, I’m sure you’ve been updated on the ongoing dilemma of the Rondeau Cottagers Association.

Fact: 283 cottager leases expire December 31, 2017. Fact: The park was established in 1894 for the purpose of cottaging. Fact: Three environmental reports that were completed in 2013 were only publicly published during the writ period in May of this year. This government, Minister, has displayed a clear pattern of holding documents and releasing them when they will face the least amount of scrutiny. Lastly, the heritage dock damaged during the harsh winter was disassembled without an engineering report to determine the extent of the damage. Locals feel that this could, in fact, be a sign of things to come and are worried about the park’s future.

Minister, will you tell us today why these docs were stalled and who gave permission to tear down that dock?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Thank you to the member for the question. I know that the issues around Rondeau, in the broadest context, are very important to him. In fact, I think maybe the first question I had in the House after I’d been appointed as the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry was from that member.

I would say to him that it’s very similar in some contexts to the question that was asked yesterday by his colleague around Algonquin Park. Both Rondeau and Algonquin are multi-use parks. They have a long history of being multi-use parks. We respect that. We’re trying to find our way and migrate our way through these issues.

In the supplementary, I’ll provide a bit more detail for the member on where we are when it comes to Rondeau specifically. But I will say that at this point, there is no decision imminent. We have respected the history of multi-use for Rondeau and for Algonquin. We had a great chat yesterday with the member about how we’ve approached the issues related to Algonquin. Hopefully, in the supplementary, I can provide the member with a bit of comfort as we move forward on the Rondeau situation as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Minister, the longer your department delays the RCA report, the more people worry that the 283 cottages will, in fact, be removed. Former Ministers Cansfield, Jeffrey and Gravelle have stated that the cottagers have a right to remain in Rondeau. Minister Orazietti had stated that this pressing issue would be cleared up on his watch, but in fairness, an election got in the way. Minister, your predecessors don’t want this, the cottagers don’t want this, and I sure as heck don’t want this. The decision will have to be made under your watch.

So Minister, will you agree to meet with me by October 30 to finalize a positive outcome for the Rondeau cottagers so they can continue to live in peace and harmony with nature, restore their cottages and once again stimulate the economy?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Thank you once again to the member for the question. I’m happy to meet with the member, but I won’t put a timeline on the decision, so if that’s the point of the meeting, we’ll say no. But if you want to meet and have a discussion around issues related to Rondeau, I’m happy to do that.

As the member knows, there were at least two studies that were conducted related to Rondeau, both economic and environmental. Those studies were brought in-house. They were reviewed. The issues related to Rondeau are considered so important to the government that they not only took in those studies, but then they also asked for a peer review of those studies. We’re still analyzing that data. I haven’t had the ministry come back to me with information related to the peer review of those two studies. When I get that, I’m happy to share it with the House. At some point going forward, we’ll make a decision, and we’ll let the member know.

But again, in regard to the meeting, we’re happy to sit down. In fact, we live in the same building now. I saw you in the elevator the other day. Maybe we don’t even have to use legislative time. Offer to buy me a beer. We’ll get together, and we’ll talk about Rondeau. It’ll all be—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Elliot Lake inquiry

Mr. Michael Mantha: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning to you.

My question is to the Premier. Justice Bélanger took great care, two years and $20 million to consider the full picture of what went wrong that day in June 2012 that led to the Elliot Lake mall collapse. Justice Bélanger made numerous recommendations for this government to implement so that this tragedy would never happen again. Lives were forever changed by those events, and I agree with Justice Bélanger when he says, “The residents of Ontario, and Elliot Lake in particular, have a right to know the extent to which governments and other public institutions will implement the recommendations and the reasons for any deferral or rejection.”

Premier, what are you doing to implement Justice Bélanger’s recommendations?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing will want to comment on this, but I want to take this opportunity—I haven’t had a chance to do this in the House—to thank Commissioner Bélanger and his team for the very thorough study of the Algo Centre Mall tragedy. My heart goes out to the families and the loved ones of Mrs. Doloris Perizzolo and Ms. Lucie Aylwin. It’s a very tragic, tragic situation, and we are committed to making sure that events like this won’t happen in the future. I say that sincerely to the member opposite.

What we are doing in the immediate term while we’re reviewing the report, because we are committed to reviewing the report and looking at next steps—but in the meantime, we’re establishing an advisory panel to get recommendations on how to move forward. We’re strengthening and clarifying the process of ongoing rescue and recovery efforts, and we’re reviewing the guidelines that can help first responders to work together. So that’s in the immediate term.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Some of the recommendations from Justice Bélanger’s report include:

—implement minimum structural maintenance standards for large-scale buildings across Ontario and require them to be regularly inspected;

—create a publicly accessible database of structural inspections performed by licensed structural engineers;

—restore funding to urban search and rescue teams, enhance their training and ensure they can be quickly dispatched to all parts of the province;

—build partnerships with Ontario Mine Rescue, which has 875 trained volunteer rescuers who are all mine employees, to assist in future disasters.

Minister, when can we expect actions on these recommendations? The memory of Lucie and Doloris is more than enough motivation to getting it right this time.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Thank you for the question. Of course, the events at Elliot Lake were a real tragedy, one that no member of this Legislative Assembly would ever want to see repeated.

The commissioner did a very extensive and very fair report and made a number of recommendations, all of which we are taking seriously. The Premier mentioned, in her response to the first part of the question, setting up the advisory committee. We’re doing that.

I want to remind the member opposite also that the commissioner acknowledged in his report, very eloquently, I thought, that the current system we have in Ontario works very, very well, that it’s a model that many other jurisdictions look to for advice and guidance. I think that speaks well for most of our building officials.

We, of course, are going to conduct a comprehensive review. The advisory committee is being set up, as the Premier mentioned.

International trade

Mr. Yvan Baker: My question is for the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and International Trade. In my riding of Etobicoke Centre, we have a large number of small and large business owners, as well as people who are involved in business. When I speak with them, they tell me that it’s so important that here in Ontario we create an environment where businesses have an opportunity to grow, and through that, we create employment for all Ontarians across all sectors.

One of the most effective ways to do that is through the expansion and strengthening of our trade relationship with the United States. In fact, I know that the Premier’s mandate letter to your ministry emphasizes the government’s goal to advance international trade interests.

Minister, would you tell us what action is being taken to ensure a beneficial trading relationship with the United States?

Hon. Michael Chan: I want to thank the honourable member from Etobicoke Centre for asking.

Speaker, last week, I was in America. I was in Washington conducting a trade mission. This was my first trade mission as minister responsible for international trade, and I am proud of it. I had a great trip, very fruitful and downright important. It is important because, as the member states, the US is Ontario’s largest trading partner.

In 2013, Ontario’s exports to the US totalled $120 billion, importing $115 billion. In Ontario’s trade with the world, the US represents 64% of that total. This is a big number. We must maintain our close ties with the US. We must strengthen our trade with them. It’s a win-win situation. It will benefit our economy. It will create jobs. It will benefit the people of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Yvan Baker: I’m sure that the people of Ontario will be pleased to hear of the confidence the minister has in our broader relationship with the United States. It’s encouraging to know that this government understands and values the broader scope and depth of our partnership.

I would say, however, and I think the minister would agree, that it’s critical that we explore all possible avenues for economic development and growth. In fact, I was recently at a meeting at the Rotary Club of Etobicoke, where I met with business people who are giving back to their community, and they spoke to me of the work they are doing abroad, in Asia and in Europe, through their businesses.

The economic success of Ontario will be greatly influenced by our ability to expand, negotiate and work with our global trade partners. Minister, the business community of my riding—and, I believe, of all of Ontario—would be interested in hearing what steps are being taken to provide additional opportunities for trade investment outside of the United States.

Hon. Michael Chan: Speaker, while I was in Washington, I was told that the US has more trade discussions with Mexico than with Canada. When I asked, “How is this possible? How does Mexico work with you so often?” the response was, “Because they keep knocking on our doors.”

Our trade partnership with the US is one that we must work to preserve and strengthen. The Premier’s mandate letter was clear when she said that we must seek opportunities worldwide. It is our duty to knock on these doors on behalf of all Ontarians.

As the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and International Trade, I will work to knock on the door of the United States and the doors of the world. This is why I look forward to trade missions like the one to China that myself, the Premier and the Minister of Economic Development will embark on this week.

Child care

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question is to the Premier. There is a plan by the government to eliminate 140,000 child care spaces in the province of Ontario. The Association of Day Care Providers said just yesterday that your Liberal plan “would not only do little to prevent illegal daycare centres from operating, it could push many licensed child care centres into closing ....”

This will amplify the child care shortages across the province of Ontario, particularly in suburban and rural communities like the ones I represent. I would caution the government against this plan that they’ve got in place, which is being debated this afternoon.

I would ask the Premier if she will pull her plan to eliminate 140,000 child care spaces across the province and instead consult with child care operators right across the province.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Liz Sandals: Yes. I’m not sure, but I would understand, with all the things that happened yesterday, that perhaps the member opposite missed this: The Ombudsman actually released his report yesterday, investigating the ministry’s capacity to deal with unlicensed daycare and how we followed up on complaints.

I would like to say that, in fact, the Ombudsman of this province has made a number of recommendations—113 recommendations—and actually noted in his report that Bill 10, the legislation that we began leadoff on yesterday and are debating this afternoon, addresses 35 of the recommendations. He exhorted us to get on with dealing with it quickly and passing it quickly.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: It’s pretty simple: She’s only meeting a third of his recommendations. Above and beyond that, this is the big challenge, and something that the minister probably doesn’t want out there today, but this is what the Ombudsman actually said: It’s about a government that put kids at risk through “years of bad administration and neglect.” That’s from him. That means that the ministry has failed.

He used words like “the ministry neglected,” “lack of communication” and “careless and inconsistent complaint intake practices” to describe your ministry. Now, because of the government’s malfeasance, 140,000 child care spaces are at risk in this province.

The Liberal plan that is before this assembly will do nothing to fix the problem. If the government is not going to pull the bill—which is a bad bill, and which child care operators across the province are saying is a bad bill—will the minister at least commit today to travelling to affected communities right across this province, in suburban and rural Ontario?

Hon. Liz Sandals: I will commit to doing exactly what the Ombudsman recommended, which was to pass the bill as quickly as possible. That’s what I will commit to.

I suggest that the member opposite actually might want to read what the Ombudsman said a little bit more closely, because he pointed out that we have already addressed 95 of his recommendations; that there are another 60 that we have addressed by doing things like creating a dedicated enforcement unit to look at unlicensed daycare complaints; and that we have put in place a searchable website so parents can get the information about unlicensed home providers.

What I would finally—

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Get your facts straight, Liz.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to ask the member from Simcoe North to come to order, but I’m going to use what he said as a springboard to my recommendation that I’ve always used. Please use people’s titles and their ridings only. It lowers the temperature, and I don’t want it raised.

Please finish; wrap up.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I would like to read to you the Ombudsman’s concluding remark:

“In the past year, the ministry has made genuine and focused efforts to rise to the challenge of ensuring that Ontario has a proactive, timely, risk-based, and effective system for monitoring unlicensed child care operations.” That’s what the Ombudsman said.

Diagnostic services

Mr. Joe Cimino: My question is for the Minister of Health. This evening I will be attending the fifth annual Sam Bruno Dinner to raise funds to bring a PET scanner to our hospital, Health Sciences North. I knew Sam personally; he was a businessman who spent his final years working to bring this crucial diagnostic device to the north. Our community has carried on Sam’s fight to ensure northerners have equitable access to life-saving technology, and together we raised almost $500,000.

I would love to deliver good news tonight to Sudbury. Will the new minister commit to finally purchasing a PET scanner for northeastern Ontario?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thank you for the question. I want to say that I had the privilege of meeting with the North East LHIN just a couple of weeks ago when the cabinet was in Sudbury for that meeting, and I was able to speak with the health leadership in that community, in fact in that region, to get a better understanding of not just the needs going forward but also the incredible services that are being provided in Sudbury and elsewhere.

With regard to this specific issue and request, I’m happy to talk to the member opposite more to familiarize myself with precisely what the request entails and where my ministry is at in terms of consideration of that request, as well. I’m happy to address the issue more in the supplementary as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Joe Cimino: For over five years, New Democrats have been standing up for northerners in making a simple, straightforward request. We want northerners to have the same access to life-saving PET scanners as every other Ontarian. That’s what is fair and that’s what is right. Why does the government continue to ignore the needs of northeastern Ontario by refusing to purchase a PET scanner for our community?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thank you again for the supplementary. I have to say that the services that are being provided, as the member opposite knows, not only in Sudbury but in the region as a whole, are state-of-the-art and something that the north, and in fact the whole province, can be proud of with regard to the investments, but also the tremendous gathering of health care professionals who have been able to provide services that I am confident are as important to the locality but as exceptional as we find in other parts of the province.

Again, as I mentioned to the member opposite, I’d be happy to speak more directly with him about the specific request that he mentions, so perhaps we could make those arrangements.

Winter highway maintenance

Mr. Chris Ballard: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Last year, we experienced one of the toughest winters in recent memory. As the member for Newmarket–Aurora, I and my aching back distinctly remember the challenges that my community faced while contending with the harsh weather—snow, ice and cold temperatures day after day, it seems. That’s why I was extremely pleased to hear the Minister of Transportation announce last Thursday additional oversight and equipment for winter maintenance. This is a strong step toward being prepared for the upcoming winter season, and I know that many in my community of Newmarket–Aurora were pleased to hear about this great initiative.

Could the minister please provide members of the House with further information on last week’s announcement?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I want to begin by trying to recover my voice, and thank the member from Newmarket–Aurora for that very timely question. I also want to thank the member from Northumberland–Quinte West and my parliamentary assistant, the member from Eglinton–Lawrence, for all of their work in the announcements that we made last week regarding MTO’s preparations for the upcoming winter season.

The member from Newmarket is certainly correct. Last year was a difficult winter for people living right across Ontario. That’s why we announced last Thursday that the government of Ontario will be delivering 50 additional pieces of winter maintenance equipment to southern Ontario. This equipment will help ensure that freeway ramps and shoulders are cleared more quickly, which will help to make our roads even safer for those commuting this harsh winter. That number of 50 is in addition to the 55 new pieces of equipment that were deployed last year, primarily in northern Ontario.

We’re also introducing 20 new inspectors who will provide on-the-ground oversight of our contractors during winter storms.

I’m confident this will help us be prepared for this coming winter.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Chris Ballard: I want to thank the minister for his response.

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to attend the opening of the 13-kilometre extension of Highway 404 from Green Lane to Ravenshoe in East Gwillimbury in September. I was pleased to drive that highway with the member from York–Simcoe, and many others. I don’t think that was the member who passed me in that little black Volkswagen; that was another regional member.

This great new extension is taking 22,000 cars off the local roads each day. Many of those cars would pass through my riding, so we’re very appreciative of that extension.

I’m pleased to know that our government is committed to keeping the highest possible standards for winter maintenance on roads like these. But, Minister, last winter there were a number of concerns raised by people living in Newmarket–Aurora—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Question.

Mr. Chris Ballard: —that equipment was not getting onto our roads fast enough. The faster the snow is cleared, the safer our roads will be for Ontario drivers. I want to make sure that my constituents will be provided a safe commute when travelling in the winter.

Can the minister—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I very clearly got the gist of the member’s question and I want to thank him for the wonderful leadership that he is showing in Newmarket–Aurora, as a neighbour to all of us who also have the privilege of representing York region communities.

Speaker, I know that there were concerns raised last winter regarding the snow not being cleared quickly enough. We have clearly listened to this feedback, and we’re working to take proactive measures, some of which I mentioned in my initial answer, for the upcoming winter season.

There is no doubt that every additional piece of equipment that we have on the roads, the highways, the ramps and the shoulders makes a positive difference. Additional equipment allows our contractor partners to deploy support quickly to where it’s needed most, and it ensures that they are able to work with us to clear our highways, our ramps and our shoulders as quickly as possible. This is because the safety of our roads is our number one priority.

We will continue to work with all of our road safety partners, all communities across Ontario and our area maintenance contractors to make sure that our province is adequately prepared for what could be, but we hope won’t be, another long and cold winter.

Asthma

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is to the Premier. Last session I worked very hard to try to get my private member’s bill, Ryan’s Law, passed through committee before the election. Unfortunately, it didn’t happen. In July, I reintroduced my bill, and it’s coming up for second reading this afternoon.

Premier, Ryan’s Law is very important. It would ensure that the one in five children who are asthmatic can attend asthma-friendly schools regardless of where they live in our province. It is my hope that we can put aside our partisanship and work together to ensure that this vital bill is enacted into law as quickly as possible. However, I know that with a majority government, opposition bills tend to get shelved, regardless of how vital they are.

Premier, will you commit to doing everything you can to ensure the quick passage of Ryan’s Law?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member opposite for his question, because we agree that the health and safety of our students is one of our absolutely top priorities. I do want to say that our heart goes out to Ryan Gibbons’s family for his tragic loss, and to thank you for your advocacy on behalf of children with asthma.

I’d also like to thank you because I know that last time, before we had the election, your bill not only passed second reading, but it got to committee; there were a number of amendments that were made. I want to thank you for when you retabled the bill; you’ve actually captured a number of the amendments that had already been agreed to in committee.

I’m particularly happy to see that the language that actually makes it clear that where a child’s parents and doctors consent to the child carrying the inhaler, that they can do that. Yes, we are—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Thank you for the answer, Minister.

Back to the Premier: Premier, I have heard from many families across this province whose children are still not able to access inhalers. I’m positive, after the last response, that Ryan’s Law will pass through second reading.

Premier, I would hope going forward, though, that the bill does not get lost in the committee structure and the House leaders can work together to ensure that Ryan’s Law goes out to committee as quickly as possible. I’d like to see this bill passed into law by spring so that next September all children with asthma throughout our society are able to have safe environments in the school.

Premier, would you ensure that Ryan’s Law gets priority as it moves through committee so that we can get it through third reading and into law by spring?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Obviously, I have no control over conversations between the three House leaders. But what I did want to note is that we are supportive of the bill. I do have one area of concern, which is that we are seeing bills come up that are specific to a number of different diseases and the feedback that we are getting from educators is that it’s very difficult when they have a separate law addressing each health problem that a student might present.

We’ve asked OPHEA, the Ontario Physical and Health Education Association, to have a look at the issue and to report back to us on best practice because we really do need—I commend you for the great work that you’ve done with asthma, but we really do need to find some comprehensive way of pulling together responses to all the different diseases.

I’m also looking forward to the report OPHEA will be presenting in the winter.

Child care

Miss Monique Taylor: My question is to the Premier. Premier, I was a working mom