British Columbia Hansard — Monday, February 17, 2003

H0217am-05

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, February 17, 2003 Morning Sitting Volume 11, Number 5 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon.

Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon.

George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon.

Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon. Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management and Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries ..................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon.

Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk................................................................................................ ............................................ Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca/hansard In addition to printed transcripts, Hansard Services publishes transcripts on the Internet and broadcasts Chamber debates on television.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) .......................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L)..................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon.

Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)....................................................................... Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................ Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ...................................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, John (L).........................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon.

Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)........................................................................... Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn................................................................John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Monday, February 17, 2003 Morning Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Private Members' Statements.................................................................................................... .............................................. 4791 Victoria's downtown J. Bray Hon. R. Coleman Agritourism S. Brice Hon. M. Coell Current youth issues K. Stewart Hon. G. Hogg Vision D. MacKay Hon. S.

Bond Motions on Notice.............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 4800 Criminal Code amendments on street racing (Motion 7) B. Locke Hon. R. Coleman Hon. G. Plant P. Wong K. Johnston K. Manhas R. Hawes Role of aquaculture in economic development of first nations (Motion 3) R. Visser M.

Hunter Tabling Documents .............................................................................................................. .................................................... 4807 Members of the Legislative Assembly pension plan annual report, 2001 Hon. G. Collins

4791 MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 The House met at 10:05 a.m. Prayers. Private Members' Statements VICTORIA'S DOWNTOWN J. Bray: Today I'd like to talk a bit about Victoria's downtown core and some of the issues that have been very pertinent in the news and in my constituency of- fice recently. In my reply to the throne speech last week I spoke of the problems in Victoria's downtown core, including issues of homelessness, illicit drug use, substance abuse and mental health. These are issues that are absolutely devastating to the lives of people living with these problems and living out on the streets.

It's also an issue that impacts the whole community from the perspec- tive of small business, from the perspective of public safety and — come the summer months — from the perspective of tourism. It deals with individuals, but it also deals with the community at large.

Two weeks ago the city of Victoria, the Vancouver Island health authority and the Victoria city police did a joint announcement of a strategy that they have de- veloped in cooperation together to find real solutions to these problems and to make sure that we in fact turn the tide around and ensure that we're providing ser- vices for those people from the perspective of the busi- ness owners, the individuals living on the street and other Victorians who actually currently don't like going downtown because they don't feel safe.

I for one am very pleased to see this level of collaboration among the local authorities because, of course, in my riding the downtown problem is not just in downtown for my residents. It's also in some of the residential neighbourhoods, including Fernwood. The impact on those communities for public safety includes discarded needles in playgrounds and around day care centres, which really adds an element of discomfort and risk to children. This is a very complicated issue but one in which I'm very pleased to see the beginnings of some real cooperation.

I'm pleased that this cooperation among the local authorities has developed strategies not just for the short term but also for the long term. It is a compre- hensive strategy that will bring about, if implemented, real long-term solutions to the problems faced by the individuals as well as the problems faced by the com- munity.

At this press conference the mayor made it very clear that he was going to be looking for coopera- tion from local MLAs, from the provincial government, as well as from the federal government, and that one level of government alone is not going to be able to provide some of those solutions, especially some of the long-term solutions.

As the MLA for downtown, I have committed to work with the mayor, the Island health authority and my cabinet colleagues to ensure that the province steps up to the table and provides some real solutions based on an excellent plan already devel- oped. [1010] One of the areas I'm working on right now is one of the short-term initiatives identified, which was the fact that there are so many discarded needles downtown in playgrounds in residential neighbourhoods, which pose both a visual concern to people but also a real health concern.

One of the strategies was the training and education of a group of volunteers who would be dedicated to going about the community, safely pick- ing up those needles and discarding them and working on other strategies to ensure that those needles don't appear in our playgrounds and downtown. I'm work- ing right now to find a partnership with the provincial government to deliver that training so that, in fact, we can find an immediate solution to that problem. Last week I had the privilege of touring downtown w i t h R e v .

A l T y s i c k f r o m t h e O p e n D o o r , a n a g e n c y that works with people living on the street — people who are marginalized in society — with a very non- judgmental and compassionate philosophy. One of the programs the Open Door does is actually an outreach program, and Reverend Al invited me to join him Fri- day morning to tour downtown and some of the outly- ing neighbourhoods on foot and to meet the individu- als living on the street. It was certainly an honour to see the work Reverend Al does on behalf of people living on the street, and there were several things that struck me.

The first, of course, was meeting the individuals living on the street, getting to know their names, learn- ing a bit about their histories, finding out that these are people from very diverse backgrounds and that the sort of stereotypes society sometimes places on these individuals are very misplaced. These individuals are struggling with mental illness, substance abuse — vic- tims of abuse — and are really struggling and do not want to be there. They want to find access to services.

The other thing that struck me was that Reverend Al estimates there are about 65 people permanently living on the streets in Victoria. I was in a meeting this morning with some city officials, and they concurred that that was an accurate census. Although there is a problem in the downtown core of homelessness and people living with mental illness and substance abuse, it is still a small number. It is not the downtown east side. It is not this massive problem that seems to be insurmountable.

It is, in fact, a number that if the three l e v e l s o f g o v e r n m e n t w o r k e d t o g e t h e r a n d l o o k e d f o r solutions.… We could actually stem the tide of that problem, turn it around and — in my belief — elimi- nate the problem. Now, it won't be easy and it won't happen over- night, but I do believe the provincial government has a role to play in supporting the local authorities who've done such a great job of developing a plan. I do believe that if we step up to the plate as legislators and work

4792 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 with our local authorities, not only can we help the 65 people who are living on the street and are desperately in need of a variety of services, but we help the whole community. We help the small business operators who are try- ing to run their businesses and employ people in the downtown. We help the tourist sector by ensuring that downtown becomes an inviting and welcoming place f o r v i s i t o r s w h o c o m e t o V i c t o r i a .

W e a l s o h e l p o u r own citizens gain a sense of control over the streets, gain a sense of public safety, gain a sense of confidence that their local authorities are able to deliver the kinds of programs and services they want. This type of approach, and the approach I'm look- ing for from the provincial government, will serve the needs of those 65 people in a real, life-changing way, and in fact will improve life for the entire community and for our local economy. I am very pleased that….

My understanding is that the Solicitor General and Minister of Public Safety is going to have a few words to say, and I look forward to hearing his comments as somebody who I know has been very involved with looking at community-based solutions for the issues of public safety. I look forward to his comments. Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, to the member, I ac- tually live in downtown Victoria when I'm here. He's right: it certainly isn't the downtown east side as far as the feeling you would have in the downtown core of Victoria.

I think the critical part of this is that we have a joint announcement between a health authority, police and city, in cooperation with business owners, to look at long-term solutions. To me, that is the only way we'll ever get anywhere with regards to how we will balance off against issues in and around crime or homelessness or mental health or anything in any community. We have to have everybody pushing in the same direction. The other part about it is that it looks to me like a little bit of integration of information.

Whenever I think of integration of information, I like to actually talk about integration of policing and the ability of that information to go back and forth across borders.

I think it's critical that as we move forward we understand that the integration of groups like the health authority and the city and the police to be able to understand the problem, understand what could be the solutions to- gether and actually find long-term solutions is critical to its success. [1015] It's one thing to say the police should push back on one thing over here and not have a solution over here with regards to, let's say, things like mental health or addiction services. The police need the tools, and so do the communities, so that you can actually move these things along to success.

The other part about it is that when you talk about the community, the police and the system that we have within B.C. and within Canada, there are other parties that have to be at the table. The member mentioned the city and the provincial government.

There's also a rela- tionship with the federal government that's very criti- cal to any of this, because some of the laws that are required to deal with pushing back on the more serious aspects of crime that may lead to some of these addic- tions actually being on our streets have to be dealt with in our courts, through our prosecutors, through the police and the community. It's an integrated relation- ship between all of those, and we need some help with regards to how, long-term, we will find those solutions with regards to downtown core issues, because with- out the tools we don't get there.

The sad thing you do notice when you walk in downtown cores — Victoria, where it has the 65 people the member mentioned, and being near the needle ex- change, seeing some of the pressures that are on the community as a result of that — is that we have to un- derstand that these people need help. People who are suffering from mental illness are often the target of people that would like to actually get them addicted to something and sell them drugs or whatever the case may be, simply because they are vulnerable people within society.

I think we have to understand that to make some- thing like this work, and downstream, you need a situation where if a person does have an addictive problem, we actually have a place for them to go to deal with that addictive problem and have solutions for them. If a person has a problem with the fact that they're going to sell drugs to people who may have addictions, then at that point in time we need a system that says: "That's not right, and we're going to have penalties for you so you will stop doing that." It goes together.

Provincial, federal and city gov- ernments, along with the police and the communities, can find long-term solutions to these by working to- gether. I think it's good that the member has brought this to the attention of the House, because Victoria may be the example we want to use in the future. It's good to see a city taking the initiative in working with law enforcement and working hand in glove with their health authority to find long-term success. J.

Bray: I'd like to thank the Solicitor General for recognizing the work that Victoria is doing and for his words of support and acknowledgment that the coor- dination between the local authorities is making a sig- nificant difference. I'd also like to advise the House that later on in the upcoming days, I will be taking the Min- ister of State for Mental Health on a ride-along with the Victoria city police so the minister can see firsthand some of the issues that our law enforcement officers deal with, with respect to people with mental illness.

Some of the strategies announced by the city and the Vancouver Island health authority include services such as a sobering place — a place where, in fact, peo- ple can find a dry, warm place to sleep and to deal with the initial issues around their substance abuse. They're also announcing that the youth detox, which used to operate for 17 days — only half a month — will in fact now operate for a full month. These are some critical recognitions among the local authorities that the ser-

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4793 vices need to be in the community to deal with those individuals. I do believe that the Solicitor General makes a good point of recognizing between those who suffer from mental illness and become the victims of perpetrators of crimes, such as drug dealers, and the drug dealers themselves. The police here in Victoria made it very clear that their focus is not on the victims of substance abuse but on the perpetrators of that — the dealers who are coming in and preying on citizens who are vulnerable because of mental illness.

My hope is that by bringing ministers to the com- munity, working with the community, the province will be able to find those gaps that it can appropriately act upon, such as the needle exchange program. I do believe there is a role for the provincial government to support the local agencies. I'm also encouraged that of all the new money in the province for mental health, fully half of it has come to Vancouver Island, and the Vancouver Island health authority has acknowledged that that financial assistance will go a long way in pro- viding services for people.

The other strategic change we've made, which is critical, is that we've combined the focus on addiction services with mental health ser- vices, recognizing they are not, in many cases, separate entities. They are in fact one and the same. [1020] I will continue to work with my cabinet colleagues, work with the local health authorities and work on lobbying the federal government for assistance in this issue, because I believe, as do people on the front lines — like Rev.

Al Tysick, like the mayor, like the chief of police, like the Salvation Army social services — that if we act in a bold way and we act together and provide real services to people, we can in fact not just stem the problems in downtown Victoria; we can reverse them. We can become the model, as the Solicitor General has identified, for other cities of our size to actually deal permanently with this problem in a coordinated fashion that will improve the community, improve the local economy and, most importantly, improve the lives of the individuals suffering from mental illness or substance abuse. Mr.

Speaker: Private members' statements continue with the member for Saanich South. AGRITOURISM S. Brice: It's a pleasure to follow my colleague from the riding of Victoria–Beacon Hill. In a way, my state- ment will help, I guess, highlight the diversity of the capital regional area, because as a member representing a riding where urban and rural communities meet, I rise on the issue of agricultural land and the opportunities found in agritourism. Agritourism, as the name sug- gests, combines the two industries of agriculture and tourism.

These two industries are compatible and, in- deed, can be combined with other value-added process- ing to help ensure the sustainability of the family farm. Make no mistake about it: the family farm is under huge challenges. My riding of Saanich South is a riding with a vital agricultural base. The farmlands of Saanich South are a central feature of the northern sector of the capital re- gion. The residents of the capital region, who number approximately 350,000, see these farms as a precious resource.

Not only are these productive farms a vital source of food for the population, they are an impor- tant greenspace in an area bound on all sides by devel- opment pressures. Saanich's rural component is fiercely defended by the majority of our residents. Now, there will always be tension between farmers and their neighbours, be- cause as we all know, farms are frequently smelly and often noisy. But despite these issues, the values of the family farm far outweigh any perceived nuisance fac- tor.

More and more families are turning to local pro- duce and discovering the benefits of eating fruits and v e g e t ab l e s p ro d u c e d o n S a ani c h f arm s . B u y i ng l o c al l y ensures freshness and quality of the produce. Having established a compelling public benefit of ensuring the continuation of these farms, it is sensible to examine activities that will ensure that the farms remain financially viable and agriculturally diverse. Many farmers are turning to agritourism as a means of sustaining the family farm.

An agritourism operation is defined as a farm-based business open to visitors, offering a natural and/or rural environment in combination with agriculturally based products. This agritourism sector runs the gamut of U-picks, tours, wine-tasting and baked goods. In fact, a 2002 survey project identified 30 specific agritourism activities currently offered on B.C. farms. The ability to visit a field and personally pick a flower bouquet is an activity that gives pleasure and also connects people with the land, and the public is prepared to pay for such an experience.

The increased interest in visiting farmers' markets as a weekend ritual for city folks speaks to the desire in people to return to a touch of reality, to reconnect with the land. Anything that enhances the farm experience has proven to be very appealing to people from the city, and they are prepared to spend money. This, of course, is advanta- geous — essential, actually — to the farmers and in some cases to their financial survival. As the pace of life increases, people yearn to keep in touch with the soil.

It can be a marvellous way for adults to have a relaxing experience and for children to be made aware of just where their food comes from. They see that dinner comes from the land and not from a freezer case at the supermarket. Agritourism pushes up farm product sales, particularly a value-added product, as customers stay longer and become aware of a wide variety of products. [1025] In Saanich and the surrounding region, many farms have moved well beyond the roadside stand as a means of attracting customers to their land. Farm open houses have become increasingly popular with urban

4794 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 residents as they seek out herb gardens, vineyards and pumpkin patches. One particular Saanich South farm, situated in the beautiful Blenkinsop Valley, is a fabulous example of ingenuity and creativity. This working farm has maxi- mized its proximity to the city by transforming the cornfields into an appropriately scary Halloween ex- perience in the fall of each year. As well, on the site is a petting zoo and child-size farm equipment. It's just great to see the little kids go out there, get on these little tractors and really experience the farm.

A wide area is devoted to selling produce and baked goods. This farm has become a destination for families seek- ing to give their children a healthy low-tech experience, and I understand the owners are in the process of con- structing Plexiglas containers which will allow school children to observe beneath the soil to see the plants germinating and developing roots. Children will observe that these plants will ultimately become food for their table. That connection is invaluable to ensure that the next generation respects the need to preserve farmland.

The Southern Vancouver Island Direct Farm Mar- keting Association, along with other associations, pro- duced a report, and from that I quote: "Declining real incomes from agriculture…the pressures of agriculture reform and the rising expectations of farm families have all increased interest in adding agritourism to the agendas of farm operations.

Complementing these supply catalysts have been demand-generating factors such as overcrowding in traditional tourist resort areas and a growing public interest in specific forms of pleasure travel focusing on health, rural recreation activities and more nature-based environments. For the most part, public policies aimed at agritourism have been limited in both number and success." The report notes that the reason is policies devel- oped in isolation from policies related to tourism product development and marketing needs.

This, of course, sends a signal to us as legislators that these two initiatives should be developed in cooperation with each other. There is a high level of interest among farmers in learning more about markets and marketing strategies. I look forward to hearing the remarks from my col- league to the north, representing the Ministry of Hu- man Resources, Saanich North and the Islands, because I know he shares the same interests that I do in the farming aspects of his riding. Hon. M. Coell: I'm pleased to respond to my friend from Saanich South.

I wanted to take this opportunity to speak about the many families who have contrib- uted to agriculture and are now moving towards agri- tourism in my riding. I think, firstly, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Saanich Fair, which is a major tourism component for agriculture in my riding. It's 130 years plus. Every year thousands of people from all over the capital region, and indeed the province, come and visit the Saanich Fair, where we have wares grown on the farms throughout my riding. There are a number of areas in the riding that have been prominent.

The dairy industry, for one, has been very prominent with families like the Ay- lards, the Foxes, the Houles, the Pendrays, the Tay- lors and the Turners over the years, who had major dairy farms in the riding and contributed greatly to people coming out to the area and seeing and under- standing the farming. One of the favourites in my riding is Babe's Honey. Charlie and Babe Warren have been well known in my riding for literally dec- ades, and people and children could come and visit their honey farm for years.

The produce in Saanich North and the Islands has been fantastic, and as the member for Saanich South mentioned, many of the producers of vegetables now have not just the roadside stand but also tours and the ability to come and pick your own fruit and to under- stand the whole process of farming. The Vantreights and the Michells, the Mar family, the Oldfield Orchard — which is really moving into the agritourism field — the Hazelmere Farms and the Silver Rill farm, families like the Sluggetts….

All of those people contributed so greatly to agriculture in the riding and have moved us further into the agritourism realm. [1030] The member also mentioned the Galey Bros. Farm in the Blenkinsop Valley where there are also the Fatts and the Jacks, who have now moved out into the other less-populated areas of the peninsula. The whole industry of wineries on the peninsula and on the Gulf Islands…. Indeed, on Saturna Island w e h a v e a w i n e r y t h a t ' s g r o w i n g a n d b e c o m i n g v e r y popular as a tourist destination. Their wine is becom- i n g v e r y p o p u l a r a s w e l l .

W e h a v e a w i n e r y i n D e e p Cove in North Saanich. We have a winery in Saanich- ton, just a few miles from my home. Over the years we've also had the benefit of beef, ostrich and venison — venison on the Gulf Islands, on Mayne Island. All are areas where people are really welcome to come and experience the farm and how the farmers grow and tend their produce, and learn a lot for the average citizen. We've had one in my riding that I want to men- tion: Butchart Gardens Ltd.

When you think of farms, Butchart Gardens probably has one of the largest nurseries where they grow their own bulbs and plants and have done for decades. The Ross family has contributed greatly to agritourism on the peninsula. One of the other, I would say, agritourisms that's probably not talked about a lot is the horse industry, a major industry for the peninsula. We have families like the Bickfords and the Jawls who show and race. The riding industry, and all of the industry that goes with it, is prominent in the peninsula. [H.

Long in the chair.] As we've moved from an area that was a high- energy agricultural industry on the peninsula, we're

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4795 now moving to agritourism to bring more people in and to grow an industry that is already thriving. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the B.C. Tour- ism Industry Conference that's coming up February 19, 20 and 21 in Kamloops, where the Premier will give the keynote speech and, I believe, Ministers Hagen, Thorpe and Reid will also be on panels discussing the future and the current state of tourism and agriculture in Brit- ish Columbia.

I'm actually thrilled to be able to stand here and respond and, I guess, to brag a bit about my riding and the tremendous families that have added to agriculture over the years and who are now moving into a new generation of agritourism for the success of agriculture in the capital region and also in Saanich North and the Islands. S. Brice: I thank the minister for his enthusiastic r e s p o n s e . I t d o e s g i v e u s a c h a n c e t o h i g h l i g h t s o m e - thing quite unique about our ridings. I know it's based on his many years of experience and interest in the topic.

Tourism is a huge economic generator for greater Victoria and indeed for the entire province. Agritour- ism is a faction of that industry that enhances and di- versifies the existing tourism product. It represents one aspect of a visitor's overall tourism experience. Visitors to Vancouver Island may visit a vineyard one day to enjoy wine tasting and the next day go whale-watching or explore the antique shops within the greater Victoria area.

All of these experiences pro- vide visitors with interesting things to do while visiting our island, which in turn have the potential to inject additional tourism dollars into our economy as the length of stay increases. Agritourism is not new to B.C., and 41 percent of the businesses surveyed in the province have been in operation for over ten years. According to survey re- sults, the Vancouver Island and Gulf Islands region has the highest percentage of agritourism businesses that have been in operation for more than ten years. My colleague from Saanich North and the Islands named some of those families.

They are truly a part of the his- tory of greater Victoria. [1035] Tourists today want something to do while they visit, and they're prepared to pay to have a unique ex- perience. In recognition of the respect this tourist offer- ing enjoys in the industry, Tourism Victoria held one of its business mixers on a farm in Saanich South. That is really quite a change, moving the business industry out to the farms. I was able to discuss the future potential of this aspect of tourism with professionals.

All agreed that agritourism is an emerging product offering, with potential to provide benefits to the economy through revenue and employment, and will help ensure the viability of the family farm. I thank the Minister of Human Resources, my neighbour to the north, for his interest in this exciting adjunct to the agricultural industry so important to our constituents. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the oppor- tunity to raise this issue this morning. CURRENT YOUTH ISSUES K. Stewart: One of the main purposes of govern- ment should be to provide quality service for the fund- ing that it collects.

On behalf of the public that it serves, we in government should ensure that we deliver those services as efficiently and effectively as possible. Over the past decade there has been a transition for govern- ment to take on more and more services to families and youth. Historically, family, self-supported community groups or church provided many of these services. In addition to the traditional support, there are many new s e r v i c e s p r o v i d e d b y g o v e r n m e n t t o d a y .

R e c e n t evaluative and diagnostic procedures have unlocked a myriad of previously uncommon or unknown condi- tions in youth. These maladies require special attention and resources that in many cases are beyond the means of the individual family. I'd just like to take a moment to go over some of the programs that the Ministry of Children and Family Development alone, in their 13 core areas of service, is delivering today. Family development. Family development pro- grams ensure that families whose children are at risk of harm receive the necessary support services. Aboriginal programs.

The ministry has recognized that the current service system has not supported abo- riginal communities in taking responsibility for the safety and well-being of their children. Child protection. The child protection program carries out the province's responsibility under the Child, Family and Community Service Act to ensure that children found to be at risk of harm are protected from further abuse and neglect. The program also ad- ministers the children-in-care and residential pro- grams, including foster care, contracted facilities and independent living.

Another program delivered by this agency is youth justice. Youth justice programs promote rehabilitation by providing services to youth in conflict with law who reside in the community and are incarcerated in youth programs. Youth justice provides youth probation and youth custody services to children with ages ranging from 12 to 17. Child and youth mental health services provide consultation, clinical consultation, community-based assessment and therapy. The ministry also provides adoption services. About half of the adoptions in British Columbia are of children in care of the province.

Most ministry adop- tions are of children who came into the care of the min- istry under the Child, Family and Community Service Act. We also have special needs children and youth. Special needs services are children and youth focused, providing family support programs and intervention that promote healthy development of functioning chil-

4796 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 dren and youth that optimizes lifetime opportunities, to assist families in their roles as primary caregivers. Early childhood development. Early childhood development encourages development of healthy chil- dren, pre-conception to age six. Community living programs. Adult community- living services provide residential and day programs supporting adults with developmental disabilities. Residential services are delivered in various settings, with training to support the programs that are pro- vided. Youth at risk.

Youth services provide programs for at-risk and sexually exploited youth, including support workers, prevention, and promotion of services and youth agreements. Guardianship services. Guardianship services are provided to children taken into the care of the director voluntarily or when they need protection. Resource, recruitment and support. Resource, re- cruitment and support assesses, recruits and supports foster parents. In 1999 the ministry introduced manda- tory training for foster parents. This is provided free of cost to the foster parents. After hours.

After hours provides multi-level, after- hour responses for the provision of child welfare, fam- ily support, foster parent support and emergency ser- vices to the residents of British Columbia. As you can tell by the number of these programs, the ministry is very involved with our community and the programs that are provided there. Many of these programs are delivered in conjunction with other min- istries, school districts, community service providers and individual families.

Many of the clients and fami- lies are multi-service users, being involved with a number of various service providers. [1040] As an MLA I see in my community constant com- petition between government agencies, community groups and individual families for these limited re- sources. I know there's not an endless supply of money in Victoria. I'm also aware that when you have limited funds, one wants to ensure that the resources available are utilized as fairly and efficiently as possible.

In my community there is a number of these differ- ent programs that are funded through various sources, a n d i t ' s b e e n v e r y d i f f i c u l t f o r u s t o g e t a h a n d l e o n exactly which agencies are funded by whom, how much funding they receive and the crossover between agencies.

So what we've been doing in my municipali- ties of Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows is to try, through a pilot project of our office, to define the pro- grams that are available in our community and the service providers who are providing those, and also to get a handle on the various funding levels they get from these different organizations. In keeping with the theme of youth in our commu- nity, there's been a focus on youth recently due to a number of tragic situations that have happened with criminal activities and also because of the drug trade in our community.

The youth justice issue is becoming very important in our community, and it's an area in which we are trying to work with the community. I'll say a little more on that. I'd just like to, before passing off to the Minister of Children and Family Development for his comments on this topic, state how important it is within our community to have this working relationship with the province.

But we also have to ensure that these funds that are provided — the limited funds that are avail- able — are utilized in the most efficient way possible, and it's through interaction of the ministry with these community organizations that this can happen. So I will now pass it over to the minister to com- ment. Hon. G. Hogg: Thank you to the member for Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows for those comments.

The Ministry of Children and Family Development is the largest service provider for child welfare in Can- ada, and we've been looking at and moving towards models that would allow us to provide services more in concert with communities. Certainly, as we move towards that, the whole notion of service and care, which the member has made reference to, is one that w e w a n t t o m o v e t o w a r d s , e n s u r i n g t h a t w e d o p r o - vide care within the context of communities rather than a somewhat less personal sense of service, which is not vested to the same degree within the context of a com- munity.

To do that — to provide quality service, as the member said…. We want to do that both efficiently and effectively, and certainly practice and research world- wide will tell us that to do that most effectively and efficiently, we must look at the provision of services within the context of communities. Some of the issues we've been dealing with include the fact that in child protection, which the member made reference to, there's been an increase over the past six years of some 60 percent of the number of chil- dren coming into the care of the state.

One of the pro- grams which the member made reference to — that of family development — is a program that we're trying to build services around families so that we can not take them into care, because we know the outcomes for them will be much better if we're able to build supports around them within the context of their families. About 65 percent of the children coming into care have been coming into care from families who are sin- gle parents — usually a single parent; usually a woman — who are on income assistance.

So if we can build supports around those families, if we can provide them with some child care support, perhaps some respite care or perhaps some parent effectiveness support, we know we can build supports for the family that are going to provide better outcomes for the children. The children will be more likely to graduate, to get em- p l o y m e n t , t o b e h e a l t h y . W e k n o w t h a t i f w e b r i n g them into care, those outcomes are not nearly as good statistically as they would be otherwise.

So not only does it make sense in terms of a fiscal response, but more importantly, it makes sense in terms of outcomes — in terms of a moral response to the issues of chil- dren.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4797 Secondly, with respect to aboriginal children. Abo- riginal children represent about 8 percent of the popula- tion of this province, yet 40 percent of the children that we have in care are aboriginal children.

We've not done a good job of responding to their issues and their needs, and we must look at new and better ways of doing that, which include moving towards aboriginal authorities. [1045] We in British Columbia have been very fortunate inasmuch as the United Native Nations — which is the off-reserve aboriginal people — the Métis nation, the First Nations Summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs have all come together in support of working to a positive response for the issues of their children.

We're the only province in Canada where the aborigi- nal communities have come together in that fashion in wanting to look at and provide better services for chil- dren. We are working with them to develop that. Around the issues of child and youth mental health, which the member made reference to as well, we are the first province in Canada to have a compre- hensive child and youth mental health plan. We are working forward in the next two years to put the plat- f o r m i n p l a c e s o t h a t w e c a n m o v e i n t o b e t t e r s e r v i c e delivery with that.

About two-thirds of our ministry's budget goes to the community partners, to the people we work with. The m e m b e r m a d e r e f e r e n c e t o t h a t a n d h a s b e e n a n a c t i v e supporter and proponent of the Maple Ridge youth jus- tice advisory association, of which Lola Chapman is the executive director, and he's been to see me a number of times with respect to that program, wanting to be sure t h a t w e k n e w t h e v a l u e a n d i m p o r t o f t h a t p r o g r a m .

I know that he has been successful in finding some fund- ing to assist and support that program, and I give him full credit for the work he's done on behalf of that agency and, indeed, on behalf of the children in his constituency with respect to that. I have been a guest in his community two or three times, meeting with service providers. He is one of the more conscientious and consistent representa- tives of his community for those services, and I appreci- ate the way he's kept me up to date on the services within the context of his community.

I am sure that has also boded well for the services within his community. His grasp for and understanding of the broad range o f s e rv i c e s as we m o v e t o c om m u ni t y m o d e l s o f g o v - ernance, as we get more involved with communities, the type of services provided by the Ridge Meadows Youth and Justice Advocacy Association is exactly the type of model we want to look at because it involves communities in giving resolutions to their issues within the context of the community.

The state, the province, is responsible for ensuring we have a legisla- tive framework for that, that we fund it, that we hold people accountable for it and that we have standards in place. That's exactly the type of model the member has made reference to and exactly what we're seeing hap- pening in Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows.

I congratulate the member for his consistent and constant approach to improving services for youth within his constituency and for keeping us informed with respect to that and looking at partnerships that we can develop with members of that community to en- sure that the very best things do happen for children and families in that community. K. Stewart: I'd just like to thank the minister for his kind words of support. I also would like to thank him for the financial support he's given to the programs in our community.

Since being elected, I've been trying to get a handle on the government funding to the youth and community services that are provided within Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows. This is not as easy a task as one would think. There are many excellent community pro- grams that in order to stay in business must juggle — bingo funds, casino funds, numerous community fund- raisers, various grants and contracts from all or some levels of government, including any combination of fed- eral, provincial, municipal, GVRD or regional districts — and some organizations even get international funding.

The funding sources are often as confusing as the operating partnerships and services that these organi- zations provided. We're currently, out of our local of- fice — as mentioned earlier — trying to compile a ser- vice and funding profile from our community. It is my opinion that we must encourage those services that have a true impact — the ones that have long-term benefits to kids and youths at risk, to families and to the community at large. We stand together to gain when the services that gov- ernments provide are coupled with those of the commu- nity and are focused and, therefore, effective.

That's what I see the Ministry of Children and Family Development doing now. They are consulting with community leaders, saying: "We don't know the needs of your community the way you do. We need your expertise, and we need to ensure the focus is in the right place and is garnering the long-term benefits we all know we want to have." As mentioned by the minister, one of the more suc- cessful programs in my community is the Ridge Mead- ows youth and justice advocacy program.

This is a model that demonstrates a cooperative funding that maximizes the limited funding it receives through the use of volunteer and community involvement. As a result of our interest in community and youth pro- grams, we are conducting on February 28 a youth fo- rum at the Greg Moore Youth Centre. It's an opportu- nity to hear from the youth of our community, from all the service providers and from the concerned citizen.

Just in closing I'd just like to mention that as an MLA, I know that we do have limited funds, but I feel it's my responsibility to ensure for the people of Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows that we get our fair share of funding and to ensure that those funds we receive are utilized in the most effective manner possible. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. [1050] VISION D. MacKay: I have been approached many times in the past two years and asked the question: what is the

4798 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 vision of the B.C. Liberal government? I would like to answer this question by addressing several concerns of the constituents of Bulkley Valley–Stikine. The number one concern of people in B.C. and Bulkley Valley–Stikine is the economy and jobs. To assist the private sector with the creation of jobs, we have done plenty, and yet we need to do more. Access to resources is critical. Our government has created a new land-based allocation for mining and forestry. We have designated 48 percent of the forest lands as a working forest.

This is up from the current 23 percent. We have opened up the province to mining oppor- tunities. In 2002 exploration spent roughly $40 million in the province of British Columbia. That is up substan- tially from the year 2000. After careful consideration, our government was able to issue the project approval certificate for the mine to operate in the province, in early December 2002. I refer, of course, to the Tulse- quah Chief mine near Atlin in the northwest part of this province. This mine will create 300 new construc- tion jobs and 200 direct mining jobs.

Mining is the highest-paid industry in the province at $77,000 per year. We have to reduce more red tape. Our government continues to reduce regulations, and we reduced per- s o n a l i n c o m e t a x b y 2 5 p e r c e n t . W e h a v e a l s o m a d e other necessary changes to attract investors. We do, however, recognize that there is still a long way to go to accomplish an efficient, effective set of regulations. We need to strengthen the infrastructure. Our gov- ernment has recognized that infrastructure capabilities, including transportation and power, are an integral part of a strong economy.

Dealing with transportation. The need to maintain and develop roads is a vital part of a strong infrastructure. Containerized shipping from the Port of Prince Rupert is another example of needed facilities. Moneys have been allocated for a study to assess this need. The movement of beetle wood across François Lake on the inland ferry has created a huge bottleneck. This bottleneck is being addressed as we look to privatize the ferry and address the capacity issue at the same time.

We are creating regional trans- portation authorities in order to have local input from those who live in the vast areas of the province. It's the people who live locally that know it best and know where the money should be spent. Power is another issue we need to address. Inde- pendent power projects will increase our limited power supply. I refer to two projects in the riding of Bulkley Valley–Stikine: the cogeneration at Houston and the Forest Kerr project on the Iskut River. There is no hy- droelectric power in the northwest part of the province, only that which is produced by diesel generators.

The Forest Kerr project will extend hydroelectric power another 130 kilometres north of the existing B.C. Hydro grid. An area of concern is native issues. Our govern- ment has recognized that some investors, including forestry and mining, require a more stable environ- ment, and we are working hard to create that climate. I recently attended the Cordilleran Roundup in Vancou- ver. The 2,200-plus mining delegates exhibited a great deal of enthusiasm and interest in the investment op- portunities in the north and particularly in the riding of Bulkley Valley–Stikine.

The Tulsequah Chief mine near Atlin was one that I am sure the mining industry watched with a great deal of interest. Government rec- ognized that land claims and recent court decisions are creating uncertainty in the investment community. Some native bands are attempting to negotiate with investors rather than with the government. This is cre- ating problems. We as a government need to address this issue to provide equal opportunities for all our citizens. [1055] Tourism. Our government realizes that tourism is beginning to play a larger

part in the economy of the north. We are excited and look forward to the jobs that will be created by the $250 million ski hill development at Smithers on Hudson Bay Mountain. This will create many direct and indirect jobs and increased investment as this project unfolds. At this time I will yield the floor to the member for Prince George–Mount Robson for her response. Hon. S. Bond: I am very pleased today to be able to respond to my colleague the member for Bulkley Valley– Stikine, who has outlined government's vision for Brit- ish Columbia.

Our vision for British Columbia is one where we have a revitalized economy and increasing j o b s . Y o u s e e , w e h a v e a v i s i o n o f p r o s p e r i t y t h a t stretches from the coast to the Kootenays and from the Yukon border to the tip of Vancouver Island. We be- lieve that with a revitalized economy and an improved job situation, we can protect the future for our families and for the children of this province. The member for Bulkley Valley–Stikine and I are both members of the northern caucus. We were ap- pointed by the Premier to bring the north's voice to Victoria.

I can tell you that over the past 20 months, that voice has been loud, it has been strong and it has been proud. We have advocated for tax relief that rec- ognizes some of the unique challenges we find in the north. As a caucus we believe that the containerization at the Port of Prince Rupert is a project that will benefit the entire north, and we want to move forward with that. M o s t i m p o r t a n t l y , w e h a v e p r o m o t e d a n u n d e r - standing that what the north contributes is significant to the provincial treasury.

Now we have an increased opportunity to create an economic strategy for the heartlands of this province. The resource communities of our province are the economic backbone of British Columbia. Our government is putting a plan in place to make sure that resource communities are full partners in British Columbia's renewal. The member has touched on many of the opportu- nities that will be available for people in the north. It is our role as government to support and create the envi- ronment that will allow our northern communities to thrive and to grow.

We recognize the importance of forestry and mining in communities like Prince George

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4799 and Smithers, and as the member stated, the creation of a new land-based allocation for mining and forestry will bring certainty of investment to our northern communities. But we also need workers. Over the past ten years we've seen many of our skilled workers leave the prov- ince and take their talents with them. As the Minister of Advanced Education, I am committed to building a trades and training program that works for both ap- prentices and employers.

I know that a key role will be training those workers so that they can work and live in our northern communities. Our proposed new sys- tem will offer learners greater options and more flexi- bility, and we look forward to improving the system as the months move forward. We must have a system that is responsive to the needs of students, industry and the marketplace and that will better position British Co- lumbia for economic recovery and prosperity. [Mr.

Speaker in the chair.] A key component of our new economic strategy for the heartlands is the resort task force, and that will pro- mote the development of resort communities across the province. This is a wonderful opportunity, especially for communities in the north. In my own constituency, in the village of Valemount we have already seen the bene- fit of tourism, and the new Canoe Mountain project of- fers endless possibilities. The new task force will help my riding and will help Smithers open up northern Brit- ish Columbia and increase the number of tourists.

That's why our commitment to improve northern roads is also so important. Our roads are our livelihood and our lifeline. We need safe roads that allow us to move goods and people efficiently. We now have a plan to fix those roads, and we have a plan about how to pay for them. I also want to take a moment to discuss another aspect of our vision for the north. It's another way of finding innovative and exciting methods to meet the challenges in health care. The University of Northern British Columbia is going to be home to the northern medical program.

This will help our province train more doctors and, for the first time, train them in the heartland of British Columbia. Though based in Prince George, this program will benefit communities across the north including Smithers, Burns Lake and Houston. We are going to train physicians, and they are going to work and live in these communities.

We know that doctors who are taught and learn in rural communities are much more likely to stay there. [1100] This collaborative approach to medical education is the first of its kind in Canada, and I am proud to be part of a government that is committed to innovative solutions. The rural and remote training support pro- gram provides financial and travel assistance to health care providers who need to update or upgrade their skills and training.

A loan forgiveness program for nurses, physicians and midwives provides loan for- giveness to students from accredited nursing, medical and midwifery schools who agree to practise in under- served communities for up to three years. Our government is committed to a strong economy. We're opening up opportunity, and northern B.C. will be a strong and full partner in British Columbia. D. MacKay: I would like to thank the member for Prince George–Mount Robson for her remarks as they relate to the economy in the northern part of this prov- ince.

Being members of the northern caucus, we both certainly have a message to bring to the rest of the cau- cus members in Victoria. I'd also like to touch very briefly on education and health, which are also at the top of the demands from people in my riding. The best support for health care and education that a government can provide is a strong economy. With a strong economy come in- creased revenues for government to provide health care services and education. The people of the province always want government to be responsible and ac- countable as to how they spend money.

On health care, the increased moneys recently promised from the federal government for health care will also assist us to meet the health care needs of our constituents. I need only look at the fearmongering and rumours that created so much fear in the minds of people in my riding — rumours of hospital shutdowns, closures of X-ray departments, closures of labs. These created so much unnecessary fear. Even some of the professional people had concerns in the delivery of health care as a result of our announcement. A visit to the hospital in Burns Lake the other day was very en- couraging for me.

Even the professionals who had been apprehensive were now onside after seeing what the northern health authority was doing. I would also like to touch very briefly on education. Education is another top priority for the people of British Columbia, and I know it is a top priority for our gov- ernment. I know of a young woman now raising three young children on her own, who is completing her edu- cation at home. She is working towards her teaching certificate and will be applying for the professional de- velopment program in April of this year.

To date, she has completed all of her educational requirements from her hometown by attending Northwest Community College in Smithers, accessing University of Northern British Columbia on-line courses, and by completing Simon Fraser University correspondence courses as well as distance courses through the Open Learning Agency. The ability to complete post-secondary education at home is a credit to our education system. The young woman I speak of is my daughter, Laura. I would like to thank the Minister of Advanced Education for what she is doing to the post-secondary education system to allow that to happen.

In conclusion — in answer to the question, "What is the vision of the B.C. Liberal government?" — I reply: my vision is for everyone to have a job. Mr. Speaker: That concludes private members' statements.

4800 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 Motions on Notice Hon. G. Abbott: I call private members' Motion 7. Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, I would ask for unanimous consent to proceed with Motion 7 without disturbing the priorities of Motions 1 through 6. Leave granted. [1105] CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENTS ON STREET RACING B. Locke: I am honoured to rise in this House to move Motion 7 on the order paper. [Be it resolved that this House call on the federal government to amend the Criminal Code so that "street racing" is considered an aggravating circumstance for a person convicted of a offence committed by means of a motor vehicle under

section 220 (criminal negligence causing death) or 221 (criminal negligence causing bodily harm) or subsection 249 (3) (dangerous operation causing bodily harm) or 249 (4) (dangerous operation causing death).] We have two very special guests in the gallery to- day to witness the debate of this motion, two women who have been tragically impacted by the loss of Irene Thorpe. Their names are Nina Rivet, Irene's sister, and Tina Thorpe, Irene's daughter. I am introducing this motion in honour of the lives of innocent victims of street racing: Jerry Kithithee, Const. Jimmy Ng and Irene Thorpe.

These three people were brutally killed by young men whose reckless, selfish, irresponsible and deliberate actions stole their lives and broke many hearts. Street racing is the height of ignorance and deliber- ate endangerment to communities. British Columbians understand the magnitude of this action and this crime and question why the courts treat it so lightly and inef- fectively. British Columbians want to see justice for street racers and, most importantly, for their victims and their victims' families and friends. Their actions deserve no fewer penalties than other crimes that hurt or kill innocent people.

This criminal action isn't only killing victims. It's killing youth — young people who have their whole lives in front of them, young people who need the strong message that street racing will not be tolerated and strong penalties will result if they try it, young people like Payam Yaghoobi, 17 years old; Danny Chew, 22 years old; Joseph Lui, a student at Hugh Boyd Senior Secondary in Richmond. There are simply too many youth who, behind the wheel of too much power, have not only killed inno- cent victims but killed themselves. Their families and their friends are also plagued by sadness and loss.

We need to send a strong message to young people that our society takes this issue very seriously. Young peo- ple need to know that their privilege of driving an automobile is a responsibility they must respect. En- dangering the lives of others will have serious ramifica- tions and will not be tolerated. They need to know that they can and will ruin their futures and their lives if they are caught street racing. We often pay tribute to extraordinary people in this chamber, people that have made British Columbia and Canada a better place. We never know when ordinary people turn into extraordinary people.

Too often that changes because of tragedy in one's own life. Nina Rivet and Tina Thorpe know that all too well. Nina has made and is making it her life's mission to ensure that her big sister didn't die in vain, that her life and Irene's death will have an impact on our justice system and help other victims of this senseless and selfish crime of street racing. Nina and her family have formed Family Survivors Against Street Racers. I didn't have the privilege of meeting Irene Thorpe, but I understand that Irene was a mom, a sister, an auntie, a friend.

Irene was an innocent victim whose life was brutally taken one evening while walking her dog. I can't imagine what that phone call for Tina or Nina or any of the victims' families must have been like. Your mom, your dad, your sister, your brother, your son, daughter, relative or friend is dead. How can you ever deal with that shock?

And then that night- mare is perpetuated by the injustice for that victim's soul, for your loved one, as you soon find out that the sentence, penalty or punishment does not fit the crime and that justice is not served. [1110] British Columbians are frustrated and disgusted at the light sentences handed to people like Bhalru and Khosa, who even after being convicted of criminal neg- ligence causing death — a charge that has a maximum sentence of life in prison — were given only condi- t i o n a l s e n t e n c e s , a m e r e s l a p o n t h e w r i s t .

N i n a h a s developed a petition asking the federal government to disallow conditional sentencing for any offence result- ing in death or grievous bodily harm. I thank and commend Nina Rivet for her strength and commitment to her sister. Her work will help raise awareness about this deadly issue as she strives to make our streets safer. It has been my privilege to work alongside Nina and her family as well as the Member of Parliament for Surrey North and other volunteers to collect signa- tures.

I want to thank the Member of Parliament for Surrey North for aggressively raising this issue in the Parliament of Canada. While I understand that the Criminal Code is a fed- eral responsibility, this issue is having a huge impact on my community and in communities throughout British Columbia. I felt it was imperative that our pro- vincial Legislature send this message to the federal government. I am pleased that in a few moments both the Attorney General and the Solicitor General will be speaking to this motion.

In the meantime, I know that our own Attorney General and Solicitor General have taken steps to deal with street racing with a Motor Vehicle Amendment Act, which gives the police the ability to impound ve- h i c l e s i n v o l v e d i n r o a d r a c i n g . I n a d d i t i o n t o v e h i c l e

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4801 impoundment and penalty points, drivers caught street r a c i n g c a n f a c e f i n e s o f u p t o $ 2 , 0 0 0 . T h i s l e g i s l a t i o n has been used several times now, and we are starting to see its positive effects. I ask all my colleagues in this Legislature to sup- port this motion in memory of the lives of people like Irene, Jimmy and Jerry, and for the families whose lives have been shattered by this senseless loss. They need to know we care, and we value all of them.

This motion is an important step in urging the federal government to make the necessary changes to the Criminal Code so that we can make our roads safer for every British Co- lumbian. Hon. R. Coleman: First of all today, as I join in this discussion and debate, I would like to give my sympa- thies to Nina and Tina for their losses and, indeed, to any of those that have been affected by the loss of life relative to street racing in British Columbia in the last year or so. Recently events have again brought this to the forefront of our Legislature and also to the forefront of our communities.

We have been seeing this phe- nomenon that's been taking place for about a year now with regard to how we can push back in our communi- ties to deal with street racing, excessive speed tied into it and the risks that are taken by young people who drive in this manner. The resultant behaviour has a number of impacts on people. One is the death of a loved one — someone who is a mother, a sister, a brother, a son or daughter, who has been lost early in their lives or at a time in their lives when people saw that there was more ahead of them, more that the families wanted to enjoy.

The pain that comes from this type of loss has a long-term trickle-down effect and probably never goes away. It's noticed on the birthday; it's noticed at Christmas. It's felt at every special occasion that there is an individual missing and a vacuum there within families and com- munities. S t r e e t r a c i n g i s w r o n g . S t r e e t r a c i n g i s s o m e t h i n g that is absolutely not acceptable to this government, and we have a zero tolerance towards it.

We felt, when this started last year, that we started to become more and more aware that we had to give our communities the tools to go forward and deal with the issue on the education, the prevention and the penalty side so that we would actually send the message down that we wanted this behaviour to change. [1115] Recently events in our courts have further height- ened this situation with a conditional sentence with regard to an offence of criminal negligence causing death.

The Attorney General will speak in a minute, but I can tell you that both of us as justice ministers in this province have for some time been telling the fed- eral government that in cases of offences involving violence, death and sexual assault, we don't believe there should be the opportunity for conditional sen- tences within the law. We have taken that to the table of the federal justice ministers. This motion from the member is one more thing, one more tool in our kit as this Legislature deals with this issue to be able to take forward.

I compliment her on her initiative, because I think it's important that we have those tools and direc- tion and information from our Legislature so it can back us up in our discussions at the federal level. The "criminal negligence causing death" aspect of this is the tragedy because of the recent cases, but at the same time we want to prevent this behaviour before it actually starts. We want to have some education out there and some penalties out there so people will actu- ally begin to focus on the fact that — you know what? — this is going to cost you if you're going to do this.

We did a number of things in the past year — none of which, frankly, are of any consolation to someone that's lost a loved one, because I don't think you can pass a law that will do that. But we had to go back into our communities and deal with this issue from the aspect of how we can get a handle on it and start to wake up people. The first thing we did last year was give the super- intendent of motor vehicles the ability to suspend a driver's licence for up to two years at the roadside in a situation in which somebody was involved in racing.

That gave the police a tool to be able to initially focus the mind of the young person that was caught in an offence — not an offence that actually ended up in an accident, but when the activity was actually taking place. It wasn't long after we allowed that to happen 24 hours a day that the police advised us that there was a problem with what we had done, and that was that we didn't complete the tool we had given them.

Their comment was: "You know, if you suspend the driver's licence of a driver involved in this activity, and they immediately have their friend who's in the vehicle with them drive the vehicle away, the activity can continue. There's a likelihood it would continue in some cases." S o t h e y a s k e d u s i f w e c o u l d c o m e u p w i t h a l a w , a change to the Motor Vehicle Act, to be able to seize the motor vehicle at the time the offence was taking place and to take it off the road.

We did that last spring, and so on the first offence now you will lose your vehicle for 48 hours and for up to 30 days on a second offence. In addition to that, we also looked at a number of other aspects with regards to penalty points, which we dou- bled for excessive speed last year so that we can get to people who have bad driving habits sooner, even when they're not involved in racing but just driving with excessive speed. We are looking at the fine structure now so that we can provincially add to that if necessary, and all of these things come together in one more aspect.

That is the education and the ability of young people to drive in our province. We have a graduated licence system in B.C. that is presently under review. We are going to be looking at changes to tighten that up, to restrict the number of passengers a person is allowed to have in a vehicle when they're with a certain classification of licence. Studies do tell us that when there are four or five young people in the vehicle, the tendency is for the behaviour to actually be accelerated, versus if they only have one passenger. We are moving down that road

4802 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 with ICBC and with the provincial government to ad- dress that. [1120] With regards to the activity when it takes place…. When we're done we'll have the toughest laws in Can- ada. But it doesn't take care of the next aspect on the criminal side, which is the issue that the Attorney Gen- eral and I need to deal with, at the federal level with regard to conditional sentences and that sort of thing.

I should tell the Legislature this: we have actually seized 60 vehicles involved in street racing and suspended 180 driver's licences since we put that into place last spring. It's a tool that our police are using. They don't have an answer to how we can end the activity in totality, but we do have a number of organizations that are work- ing on that with government to have education pro- grams in our schools and trying to push back at these people so that they understand what they're doing.

If they could understand what they're doing to their communities by putting lives at risk; if they could un- derstand what they're doing to their friends when it results in death; if they could understand the trickle effect of going through an entire school that's lost two or three young people in a single accident on a week- end, understand the impact of someone losing a mother or a sister; that's the education that we have to get to these guys.

That's the next step in making sure that we try and get to where we can push back and have street racing go the way of where it should be — gone from the streets of British Columbia. While we do that, we also need to look at our fed- eral laws with regard to the Criminal Code and condi- tional sentencing and how we can improve that. The member has brought that to this House today. We take that motion very seriously. We take that recommenda- tion by the private member very seriously.

The reason w e d o i s b e c a u s e w e k n o w i t ' s a n o t h e r t o o l t h a t w e think could be of use to push back on the education and to stop the activity before it starts. There are no words that could be said which could replace the grief and the loss of somebody that's lost a loved one as a result of street racing or any activity.

I can tell you, whenever this happens, I know the pain and the suffering that people go through because of the e x p e r i e n c e o f h a v i n g s e e n i t i n m y o w n c o m m u n i t y and other communities across the province, having been at Jimmy Ng's funeral and having seen the impact on law enforcement and on communities across the province that accident had. Whatever tools we can get to help us deal with this issue and any other issues in our criminal justice system, we should pursue — and we will. I'd like to thank the member for taking the time to draft this motion and bring it to this House today.

Hon. G. Plant: I w a n t t o b e g i n b y e x p r e s s i n g m y appreciation to the member for Surrey–Green Timbers for bringing to the House a matter that is, I think, im- portant to all of us who live in communities around British Columbia. I also want to join with my col- leagues in expressing the shared grief that we all feel as British Columbians for the loss experienced by the Thorpe family.

I hope that in some small way, this dis- cussion here on the floor of the Legislature will be a step in the right direction towards responding to that grief and also a step in the right direction towards ac- knowledging it. The Solicitor General has spoken about some of the initiatives that we have taken as government to try to deal with the reality and the horror of street racing. In my community of Richmond the reality and the horror of street racing were made all too real recently when Const.

Jimmy Ng was killed as a result of what almost certainly was an incident of street racing on streets that people drive on day to day, thinking that they are as safe as they can possibly be. For many of my constitu- ents the events of the last few weeks, watching as the criminal justice system has tried to respond to this phenomenon, have been a source of frustration and, in many cases, a source of anger. I've been a member of this assembly for almost seven years. One of the things we do is listen to the voices of our constituents.

I don't think I've ever had more mail on a single issue in seven years than on this issue over the last month. It clearly has been an issue of tremendous concern for the public. As the Solicitor General points out, one of the chal- lenges we face here on the floor of this assembly, and a challenge the government faces, is that for the most part, what we do and what we are seen to do is a re- sponse after the fact to something rather than the diffi- cult work of pre-empting and preventing this extraor- dinarily dangerous offence.

It is much harder, I think, for us as elected officials to grasp clearly and describe effectively the precise tools that would prevent this problem from arising in the first place and much easier for us to look at how the criminal justice system works after the fact. [1125] The criminal justice branch, which is the part of the Ministry of Attorney General for which I am responsi- ble, was struck, as I think all citizens were struck, by the disparity between the actual sentence handed down by the judge in the case involving Irene Thorpe and the submission made by the Crown.

As members of the House are aware, I'm sure, we have decided to seek an appeal from the sentencing decision at trial. I want to be as clear today as I have tried to be throughout that it may well be the case that this par- ticular sentence falls within the four corners of the principles and the law that currently apply to sentenc- ing in cases like this. I think that possibility or perhaps reality is what the member's motion responds to.

That is, if the law does in fact mean that two individuals who commit the crime of criminal negligence causing death in the way in which this crime was committed could nonetheless be sentenced to a term that does not include custody, then there may be something wrong with the law. While we in this chamber cannot amend or change the Criminal Code of Canada, we can legiti- mately, I think, make our voice heard in the Parliament

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4803 o f C a n a d a o n t h e n e e d f o r t h a t l a w r e f o r m a n d t h a t change. The member's motion strikes at the principles of sentencing and asks that parliament consider adding to the list of aggravating circumstances for particular of- fences the issue of, or the circumstance of, street racing. In thinking about that as a response to this situation, this morning I had occasion to take out the Criminal Code,

part 23, the purpose and principles of sentencing. Some of those purposes are the following. Parliament tells us that the fundamental purpose of sentencing is to contribute, along with crime prevention initiatives, to respect for the law and the maintenance of a just, peace- ful and safe society by imposing just sanctions. Those just sanctions are to have one or more of a number of objectives. One of those objectives is to denounce unlaw- ful conduct. Another is to deter the offender and other persons from committing offences.

Then there are other objectives: to assist in rehabilitating offenders, to provide reparations, to separate offenders from society where necessary and, finally, to promote a sense of responsibil- ity in offenders and acknowledgment of the harm done to the victims and to the community. The law, the Criminal Code, tells us that a sentence must be proportionate to the gravity of the offence and the degree of responsibility of the offender.

I think those basic principles as expressed in the law are sound, but what I think we are hearing is a disagree- ment on the part of the public with the way in which those principles have been applied to the case of street racing causing death. I think that those who make laws and those who apply them need to hear the voice of the public. If we don't listen to the voice of the public and if we ignore the voice of the public too long, then there will be a gap, and the gap will grow. The gap reflects the extent to which the public actually does or does not have confidence in our justice system.

My concern is that what has happened over the last few weeks has contributed to enlarge the gap rather than to shrink it. To require that the courts look at particular principles of sentencing and particular aggravating cir- cumstances like street racing is, I think, a message that it is perfectly appropriate for this House to send. I also want to take advantage of this opportunity to say that there is another tool and another part of this discussion that needs to be held here today.

The Solicitor General referred to this fact in his remarks earlier. [1130] The law includes the possibility that sentences may be imposed which are conditional, and I don't have time this morning to talk at length about a conditional sentence. I do want to say that the government of Brit- ish Columbia thinks that the conditional sentence may be and is a hugely valuable tool in many cases, but its value, I think, is extraordinarily difficult to discern in cases where the crime is a crime of violence or a crime involving abuse of the vulnerable, like children.

Street racing causing death — criminal negligence causing death — is a crime of violence, and I think there is also a role for this Legislature and its members to send a message to Ottawa, as we have tried to do as a government, to say that the Criminal Code needs to be tightened up in the area of conditional sentencing so that conditional sentences are rarely, if ever, available for a crime of this nature.

It is a tragedy — a tragedy of human proportions, but a tragedy that I find difficult to deal with — that sometimes we only seem to be able to engage ourselves in the important issues of the day when we are forced to do so by human tragedies like the tragedy that has befallen the Thorpe family. We are here for that reason having this discussion today.

Let us send a message to Parliament, which makes the Criminal Code, that street racing causing death is a crime of violence and that the principles of sentencing which require us to ensure that our sen- tences create and enhance respect for the law and cre- ate and enhance respect for the maintenance of a just, peaceful and safe society.

In fact, the law which allows us to ensure that sentences are there to denounce unlawful conduct is a law that will include expressly in it the restriction that says the conditional sentences — while they may be useful, while they have an impor- tant role to play in many kinds of offences — have no role to play in an offence like the one which has caused this discussion to happen today. Again, I want to express my appreciation to the member for bringing this to the floor of the House so that I might have an opportunity to participate in the debate. P.

Wong: I r i s e t o d a y i n s u p p o r t o f t h i s m o t i o n brought forward by the hon. member for Surrey–Green Timbers. Our government's response to this issue has been prompt and appropriate. We have listened to our constituents — to their shock, outrage and their de- mand for action. We have strengthened our law so that police are better able to get street racers off the streets immediately after they are caught. Now we are looking to the federal government to strengthen the laws so that we can have a unified front in combatting this ter- rible phenomenon in our communities.

While tough legislation is essential in our efforts to stop street racing, we also need help from the commu- nity — the parents, teachers and peers of the youth that recklessly endanger the lives of so many people. I hope this House joins me in commending the work of two groups from the Chinese community in the lower mainland. SUCCESS is a well-known organization that provides a variety of services for Chinese Canadians. In response to the recent street-racing tragedies involving Chinese youth, they have been providing assistance.

Another youth group in Richmond is called "Reckless Driving, we are concerned, we care." Together, the two groups have conducted surveys on young drivers and held a community forum in the lower mainland to dis- cuss the issue. Several months ago, together with the Solicitor General, I attended the funeral service of Const. Jimmy Ng, who was killed by two young street racers while he was carrying out his duties in Vancouver. I was deeply impressed with the couple of thousand people attending the service, including many of his friends —

4804 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 community police officers, RCMP, uniformed officers and many civilians and representatives from all types of organizations. They all mourned the death of a young, responsible and dedicated constable who was killed while on duty. I had the opportunity to talk to the parents of Jimmy, whose hearts were smashed at the death of their only child. I told them that while Jimmy was killed, his spirit would still be alive and his legacy woul d continue on forever.

I'm sure that many youth will learn the lessons and will not commit this kind of stupidity again. [1135] Recently one of my constituents wrote to me say- ing: "Mr. Wong, I'm writing to express my outrage and disappointment with the sentence handed down by Justice Linda Loo in this matter." This person is not alone. My constituents take the issue of street racing very seriously and do not feel that the law as it cur- rently stands reflects the seriousness of this crime. I'm pleased to see the strong leadership role our Attorney General is taking on this issue and the action our Solicitor General has already taken.

I'm confident that we have the support of this House. We can move forward in partnership with the federal government, the police, our communities and, most importantly, our youth to tackle this issue. K. Johnston: I would like to commend the member for Surrey–Green Timbers for bringing this motion forward. Like the Attorney General, I don't think I've had so much feedback and e-mail in terms of an event since the sentencing in regard to the Irene Thorpe case. The community has tremendous concern over the ef- fects of street racing.

Yes, as the Solicitor General said, the pain of loss does not go away in terms of a terrible, horrible, stupid activity like this. Last October I had the opportunity to talk in the House here about street racing, and the province did some things in terms of that, which were fairly pro- gressive. What has concerned me since that time and in light of recent events is that the message doesn't appear to be getting through. Not more than 48 hours after the Jimmy Ng case I was driving in the same sort of area as where his accident happened and was passed by two street racers in the middle of the day.

They had to be going over 100 kilometres an hour. It's a message that appears to be lost on some folks. A Vancouver police department constable said that many people perceive a windshield as a video game. I just feel that that is happening. One of the events that really upset me in the last couple of weeks was the incident, I think in Coquitlam, where a street racer rear-ended an elderly couple and then blamed them for sitting in an intersection, making an illegal left turn.

I think education is the answer for this in the long term, but I think we also have to enhance our Criminal Code to ensure that those out there who don't get it have to pay the consequences. I, too, want to send my condolences to the family of Irene Thorpe — and what they're battling and, I'm sure, emotionally feeling now. I support the motion fully.

I notice that one of the members of the federal Parliament from, I believe, Sur- rey North asked a question of the justice minister in the Parliament of Canada and got somewhat of a luke- warm message in return regarding enhancing the pen- alties for this particular crime. I'm hopeful that this message from this House and this motion from the member will find its way to Ottawa so true considera- tion can be given to putting more weight behind the sentencing provisions of this horrendous crime.

We look forward to that in the future, and I really, truly hope those kids out there will, at some point in time, start to get the message that they are devastating people's lives. K. Manhas: I'd like to take this opportunity to sup- port and speak in favour of this motion. The issue of street racing needs to be dealt with. There have been several deaths at the hands of individuals recklessly putting theirs and others' lives at risk by drag-racing on public streets. Most young people are good, respon- sible citizens.

However, clear societal boundaries must be laid so that all understand the implications of their behaviour to others as well as themselves. It is impor- tant that all individuals understand that there are con- sequences for irresponsible behaviour. [1140] Education must be a large part of the program by police and the community to decrease the number of illegal street races, but whether young or old, indi- viduals given responsibilities must in turn take respon- sibilities for their own actions.

Clear societal bounda- ries must be laid so that all understand the implications of their behaviour to others as well as themselves. In order for that to happen, individuals who commit ei- ther serious or heinous crimes must be served with a sentence in line with their crime. The law must back this up. This type of activity must be deterred. R. Hawes: I , t o o , w a n t t o j o i n m y c o l l e a g u e s i n supporting this motion. This motion, for me, is more about the families of the victims and allowing closure to take place.

What we've seen in the recent judgment that was handed down clearly leaves the Thorpe family feeling a much more severe sense of loss and no clo- sure. To me, it's essential that we bring that…but at the same time I think — and I've heard other of my col- leagues mention the need for discussion about further measures — we have to have that discussion. We have to be talking about preventative measures. We also have to bring the car manufacturers…. If you look at the ads now on TV — zoom, zoom; cars driven irresponsibly on television advertising….

This kind of behaviour — putting young men at high testosterone levels behind cars that they are not equipped to handle — I think is really dangerous. I think there's a sense of responsibility that needs to be taken by the automobile industry. I h o p e w e c a n c o m e b a c k t o t h i s d e b a t e a t s o m e further time. With that, though, I move adjournment of debate on this motion.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4805 Motion approved. Hon. G. Halsey-Brandt: Mr. Speaker, I call debate on Motion 3. Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, I must ask for unani- mous consent to proceed with Motion 3 without dis- turbing the priorities of Motions 1 and 2. Leave granted. ROLE OF AQUACULTURE IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF FIRST NATIONS R.

Visser: I am honoured to rise in the House to move Motion 3. [Be it resolved that this House recognize the important role that an environmentally responsible aquaculture industry can play in economic development for First Nations.] It is Motion 3 on the order paper, and for me, it's one of those important ones that I think all of us should take time in this House to think about and to talk about and debate. For the North Island — a s m a n y o f y o u know, I have spoken at length in this House — the aquaculture industry is critical to the development of our economy.

It has been growing like that for the last 20 years. This isn't a new industry, although I think if we were to discuss the amount of ink that it gets in the press and on TV, we would think it was something brand-new. The fact is that it isn't. It has been around for 20 years now and has been going through a number of changes and a number of new incarnations during that time and, I think in the last couple of years espe- cially, has gone through some very dramatic and real changes around regulation that will make it more envi- ronmentally conscious over the next while.

This industry employs 3,500 people on the salmon aquaculture side of things and a goodly number, as well, on the shellfish side of things. Today I think I want to talk mostly about the salmon aquaculture and specifically about economic development in coastal communities and the first nations there. You can't talk about coastal British Columbia without talking about or including some discussion around first nations.

I think there is a great opportunity for those coastal communities, the first nations communities, and this industry to make great strides forward in developing policy and developing an industry that is going to pro- vide them sustainable employment and economic op- portunity for their communities well into the future. [1145] There are by some accounts a number of first na- tions that are already involved in aquaculture in one shape or another. I have a list of eight or nine. I think it's a few more. I want to talk about a few of them spe- cifically.

One of them, and this is the foundation of some of my comments, is the Kyuquot first nation. This is on the west coast of Vancouver Island. They are part of the Nuu-chah-nulth tribal council. In order to get there, you have to drive to Fair Harbour, which is an hour past Zeballos, and take a boat for about an hour to get to their community. Zeballos is about two and a half hours from Campbell River, which is about four hours' drive from Vancouver. They are isolated, to say the least. Over the years they have decided that salmon aquaculture could become a part of their community's economic development strategy.

It hasn't come without some real internal debate and some sense of struggle inside that community. They are, as are many first na- tions, connected to the ocean. They are connected to salmon. They have understood and listened to and heard all of the criticism around aquaculture, but I think they, the proponent in the area and others have come to what I think is a pretty important understand- ing, and they are going to move forward together.

I know this because one of the first things I had the pleasure of doing in office, in July 2001, was attending a graduation ceremony that was held jointly between Marine Harvest Canada — one of the fish farm compa- nies operating in Kyuquot Sound — the Kyuquot first nation and North Island College. The three parties got together to put forward an educational package that would see young — well, they weren't young; the old- est was 64 — members of their community obtain post- secondary accreditation in salmon aquaculture as salmon aquaculture technicians.

It was remarkable, I think — the impact that graduation ceremony had on that community but also the way the college developed the course and the salmon aquaculture company par- ticipated in the growth of that program. It was amazing to be there to witness this. We all have to understand that these steps are small, but they're significant. The steps take time, but they're important. They are things we have to do in order to build confidence in coastal communities and confidence amongst first nations people about this in- dustry, and I think we can and are able to do it.

There are many first nations up my way that have reservations or great discomfort with salmon aquacul- ture, and that is acknowledged and understood. I know that I have met with ministers and those first nations. We have been in a boat together with scientists and those first nations leaders, and we have toured farms. We have had long, long dialogues about these things, and we will continue to do that. I think we are accepting of their discomfort, and we want to make sure we work through this thing.

I know that over the past few months and two years, we have worked very hard to build regulation that understands things like the relationship between a farm and the siting. We are trying to decide ahead of time where there are good places for salmon farms and bad places for salmon farms and allow them only in the good places, to eliminate some of the angst that's out there. We are looking at things like waste management, the impact of salmon farms on the ocean floor. We are looking very seriously at the relationship between sea lice and wild salmon, especially in the Broughton Ar- chipelago.

4806 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 All of these things are in place. We have scientists working on these issues. We are having community dialogues with these people. We are not closing off to any of the debate — all in an attempt to recognize something that has existed for 20 years and that has started to build the foundation of a vibrant rural econ- omy, to move forward and try to understand all that in the context of this new angst and try to build a future going forward slowly but surely. These are some of the steps we're taking, and that's why I think this motion is important.

There are a number of first nations out there that do participate and are actively participating in this issue, and I know some of my colleagues will want to speak to those. They are providing leadership in their com- munities, and they are providing that sense of hope and opportunity that all of them want. [1150] I am pleased that we have this motion on the floor.

I am pleased that we are all going to get a chance to talk about this further, and I am pleased to be part of a government that is taking slow but sure steps to make sure all of the science is there, all of the dialogue is there, and that we can bring along the population with us as we build this industry and regulation going for- ward for all of British Columbia, for coastal communi- ties and for first nations in particular. M. Hunter: I'm pleased to rise and speak in support of the motion put on the order paper by the member for North Island.

My first observation is that economic development opportunities afforded by the aquacul- ture industry are available not only to aboriginal peo- ple, although it is clear in coastal communities that aboriginal communities do play a vital role and have perhaps more to gain than many other communities from this important economic opportunity. I want to say at the outset that after over 25 years in and around the seafood industry in British Columbia, I am very alarmed by all the heat I hear over this issue.

Except for the antics of a previous Premier of this prov- ince with respect to international negotiations on the Pacific Salmon Treaty some five or six years ago, I don't think I have ever seen anything like the so-called de- bate that is taking place. The public discussion around salmonid aquaculture, at least, needs to be based on science and not on the opinions of radio announcers. The lack of respect being shown by various parties to this debate is certainly not helpful, and I feel it's irre- sponsible. The fact is that there's lots of science out there.

In British Columbia in 1997, the environmental assess- ment office completed one of the most exhaustive stud- ies of salmonid aquaculture in the Pacific Northwest. That study, which some opponents of aquaculture said is dated, was in fact replicated in large part by a 2001 study done in the Pacific Northwest looking at the vi- ability and desirability of aquaculture in the state of Washington. So there's lots of science out there to sup- port th

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0217am-05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0217am 05
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9cc63638af0b58a9967b3ee7c49dd8438336c723

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