VOL. "' .0 REL!MINARY UNEDliED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR iHE PERIOD 3:00 P.M.-6:00 P.M. THURSDAY, DECEMB ER 7, 1978 NO. 4 •.

te Hous e T.e ac 3. 0 ?.!!!. ?';:. Spe.a!-:e-:: :!.n t!1e C a!. r. Crcie r, p lease : :!h-1 ST.-LE~T.:TS B'i m:nsn:RS !".e hen . . : inis~er o: Jus::ice. h<ts e ;mated :rom 0 :a"'a wit'i:in :~e asc hcur,I u.-;ciers:ancilanl'!o uncing teat t~ e hen. E 'ward Sch ;:e ye r~ fonnar ?remie r o:. t he p;:o vi:tce or "ani co:,a,...,ill be th e :-~.e:<!: Gove:nor Gec:e;:al of Canaca : o succeed :.i s =::-:.cellenc)· t:he right ho. 0 .. -es Lege: T,;i ~ o, r beli-eve ::etir-e :-: s:: t:,.e end of this :·ear.

It is t:i":e custoCJ !.n a _l pa r: iarue~ ts !:: a tcc~_!y ~ on - par:-:.san :i.a:lr.e: tc e.:<tend. congracu!~:ioos o c e Goverr:.o!: ·a--:ta!':3.l : _ac t anei a !lleSSage of lo yalty o !iet: . ';;j es:y r':le •.ueen,Elizabeth ~ of ::ng.la:td acci the Co=om, ·ea l t!:!. ! >1cul d move :: ~at : he app :-op r!.ate r e solut ion oe :o r Ja rded to he Gove;:nor Ge~ er a l £lac:. 'rll e r.on . i.eader of r.; .e .~ : o ... Spee.ke :-, I am cieli~ht:eC and :~ a? : !:O asaociat:e myself ~'"ith remarks of ct:.e Deput y ?::emiec. Governor Ger.e::al £_ect see~s :o be an odd :err..

I ~O?e ~ o u r ~onour do es oc t use i t The Governo:: General Sel ect, t"'e .overncr r.ene ra_ .\ppoi ncee or s-omeching desig:tated. 7:-~e lJover:tor -•<meral, as all ;>eop:; i"-noto~ in t..~e coun -ry t is i o fac.: selecL2d ~ the Quee:t, a?poin ceC 3y ::he ueen on t~~ advice oE her Cc.naCian :ni ~is~et"s, the ?ri e ''inist.e:- to ne e:ro ct. ~e are ce ighceci , i ;:, ~t t~ e ~ -:- em..ier of a a:1adian prov !nce , .:n ~ P pre:ri e r. 1 ho!' e t\;a t this .appci:lt::te~t ~as :he e=::ect of bringing abou t a c~an:ge in t: r.e ~ .

P pa :~ y ;--olic;t as ·N-ell,si::tc:e in :::r:e- p as~ chey ~ ave .ot been too ~uc.h i n f avou r' of t~e ~eer. ~ei~g the ueer. of Canada, ! unrle =s te nc, o r her designee 297 :

Tape :~o. 120 ah-2 !'-.ere, her Governor Ger..er2l h ere being r-=spons i::, le to the Quee:J., a ?er sonc:.l rep res en ta ti ve o £ che Queen ::.~ c~is nation. I hope that effects a change in po:icy there because I ti~ink I speak for everyone in the House vhen I say that everyone here is highly in favour of t!oe Queen continuing as the Queen of Canac!a and ?laying an active role in the constitution of Canada and in fact the :overnment of Canada. ~ffi. RIDEOT.r:: Are you sure, ~1r. Leader? . '- 298

December 7, 1978 Tape 121 PK - 1 Mr. W. N. Rowe: There seems to be a couple behind me here, Mr. Speaker, who may have doubts. MR. PECKFORD: Give them time. 5ive them time. MR. W. N. ROWE: But I am going to ask the member for Eagle River (Mr. s·trachan) to take them outside for a few minutes. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. W. N. ROl~E: to take them outside. The member for the Republic of Labrador. The member for the Republic of Labrador But, Mr. Speaker, all levity aside,we welcome this appointment. We think it is good. We think that it is salutary that there be non-partisan appointments like that.

We think the Government of Canada, the Liberal Government of Canada has shown its wisdom once more in the indivirlu~l - MR. DOODY: By appointino a non-liberal. MR. W. N. ROWE: Well ,they did not lose their sanity altogether and appoint a Tory, Mr. Speaker. \'le see they are, Sir, at least half there. MR. NEARY: That is not the gentleman with all the securitu contr~cts here in Newfoundland is it? Mo. 1·1R. PECKFORD: The NDP sure have qone Liberal, 18 per cent. MR. W. N. ROWE: I am glad to see that Mr. Schreyer now following the election - MR.

NEARY: He would not be getting all of the security jobs around various government projects here? No. MR. W. N. ROWE: am glad to see, Mr. Speaker, that following the election in Manitoba~Mr. Schreyer will now have a full-time occupation and make a great contribution through tre government af this !1?.tion. MR. NEARY: Too bad he got appointel', He could do some research rm it. MR. HICKMAN: (Inaudihle~ with regard to the Opposition, would be a full-time occupation. 299 --.• ~

December 7, 1978 Tape 121 PK - 2 MR. W. N. ROWE : To me, Mr. Speaker, it is an occupation which hope to see change radically within the next year or so, as far as am concerned- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. W. N. ROWE: this personal representative of that position. But, Mr. Speaker, I associate myself with the remarks of the Deputy Premier that we send a resolution unanimously supported by this House to the Governor General Select. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! NOTICES OF MOTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Justice. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Increase of Pensions Act, 1961", and a bill, 11

An Act To Amend The Fire Prevention Act. 11 ~ OME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burin-Placentia West. Mr. Speaker, I gi~e ·notic~ that on tomorrow I will ask leave to introduce the following motion:

WHEREAS unemployment amoag the graduates of our trade schools of applicable trades for the construction and maintenance of ships in our Province is rapidly increasing ; AND

WHEREAS many young people in our Province are requi ring training and advanced skills in marine related industry and are unable to find work in their chosen field; AND

WHEREAS the Provincial and Federal Governments are committed to a ma j o~ expansion in the fishing industry -·

December 7, 1978 Tape :lo. 122 EC - 1 HR. CAN:HNG : in our Province; BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador express its confidence in the future of our fishing industry by commiting funds to expand existing shipbuilding and repair facilitjes at ~arystown to compete with any docking facilities anywhere in the Maritime Provinces. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ~!R. SPEAKER: The hon. the ~inistet of Consumer Affairs and Environment. :·IR. ~·!URPHY: Xr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, ''An Act To Amend The Department Of Consumer Affairs And Environment Act, 1973. " ORAL QUESTIONS '!R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. ~IR. W. N. RO\m : Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. ~the Minister of In~ustrial Development.

Has the government been able to obtain from any reliable source at the present time a financial statement of the financial condition of the First Arabian Corporation, the corporation which has been accepted,as far as the receiver is concerned, in respect of the Come By Chance refinery? Do you have an ~p-ta-date financial statement on the condition of that company? :·!R. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. ~IR. DOODY: We have had discussions with j First Arabian. It was some wonths ago now.

Subsequent to that, of course, the Kleinwort Eenson-ECGD-Kates Peat Marwick group have followed that up and have gone further into it. As a result of the inquiries and the concern of the Province, of course, for the asset out there at Come By Chance and our desire to get it activated, a group from First Arabian are 3D1.

Deceober 7, l97S Tape No . 122 EC - 2 :·!R . DOODY : scheduled co arrive here in che Province on ~he llch, which is Monday, I chink.

At that time we hope chat they will be able t o provide u s ~ith the answers co many ques<:ions, amon g ·them an up d c~ting on i the fi~ancial situation of their various affiliated companies, of the ir various ventures into the bu sines~ world, both in the U. i<., which I understand they h ave done quite successfully on a couple of occasions in conjunction with the Sank of England uhicb is a rather prestigious fi~ancial institution, and in the United States, as well as in ot~er ?arts of t h e world.

We also hope at t hat time to g et from them the details on o t het qu esci on3 which have been raise d the names of their associates, of their directors, what e x actly,specifically • l 302

~ecem~e~ i~ 1978 T~.re. ~:o. 123 :~-' - 1 ~fR. D00D'!': t\eir fins..J.cial Ua.cL.growLci is. ·.·Te Provi~ce. ~Iopefully 0:1. ~~onC.ay t:U.s trill be made av2i.!able 3 ~::e!:':. but to t~~e puhlic at lar~e. S-2.r~ain.ly we ,._.;ill ~o eve:-yt:1i:-~g t-."'e ca.:.L to e..!.i::.i t ti1e ir:£or:nar.ion ar:d it i.s certai:"'~ly i~ t.::.e. l::.terest of t?le governi!l.ent and of the 11ublic t:1~t t~1is be mad2. av2ilablc z.nd \·12. ~.;rill ho!'efully find out on ::o:lday, , .. t-l­ ..................... ' a:-:::.ct!:y ":/~.a:. are. t~e ansv1e.rs to t~e questions \Vhic11 t:~:e ~1on. gentle~ : .... .:.s .asked. ~:~.

Spea::er, just a supple.ncnt.:.ry or t'i!o OJ. ::-_.J.t su.Uject . .\ supple!!\e::ltary. c.:.st tl!E: die .:1s far as the ccn1pa.ny is coCl.cenJ.eCi' <..:r,d, • .:'.ts p:roc>osal to taka over th~ Come By c:1.ance :-2.fi:r:ery • Did. I ;].!:.cle.rsta..-:.d. fro::n t~:e ;::.i:-_is::e.r in an. earlier st~tement to t~1e Ecuse,i~:.. a.::suer to a G_uestion or in a statenent of :u.s .JY.~i~ volitior..,c:1at t:1..: =jor esset of First Ar2bia Coqora::ion is be Co=onwealtit !D..::Ljor assets of tLis corporatiou are? :::t. SPE.,13Z"1: .'.ff:.irs,- :P.. "JOJJY: o:: t:.~e cm!l-:;>any a!'a.

Sir, I ::...!.OW t~a.c one of the 2.ss~ ts of t:._e com?any is :~"le :'irst - cr at: least t~-~e ~o.jor ir .. te:-e.st ia c:;.e ?irst Ccr..::-.on~·:ealth E2.r..~-: cf ~etroit. I C:.i~ r..ot t:·.,.~r~ to st:g;e.st 2.t .s,,;,"..y t:i:r:·.e t:· • .J.t tl-:2.t i3 t>_:;. '1lajor .:~.ssc:t :lOr t:· .. e. only .:~.sse.t of :-irst 3133 i :

'!?.. ::>JOD'?: : o ~:i~g to a level o! coD?c t ~cc ace a level of prof~:abilit7 stem! is ad\ia•Ja~.!.a . 3u: ! :~ave :lC!Vcr give':'! t~e i::tp::ession to of Jet::oit ~~ the wajor or the only asset of :i::s t ~rabian . A supplement&ry. On t~e same line of question~g . c;,e ::ir.icecl States ·.n~ some requests for inior:::C'.tior. aiJout j :

Dece~ber 7, 1978 Tape No. 1.2/~ J)l~ - 1 given ou~ox direct statements given out to ~e by some of these institutions 1l1om I cia not mind ~entioninl': to tile ll.i.nister in confidence at some later, statements which I find rather alarmng as a member of the House. fer example ,one of t:.:et.• mentioned that the corporation does not appear to have a ver<J stable liquid position was the statement macle ,based mainly on the instability <Jidely known of its r.la;or asset, this Co=on~ealth Bank.

Now what I am wonderinp: is has the government got in its posession any credit re~orts or any financial reports,not from the First Arabian Corporation necessarily but from anyone ·~lse who has done a study independently­ I will say even the company's accountants-to indicate v?hat the financial condition may or may not be of this corporation? Rave they canvassed or solicited or received any information from independent sources on the credit 1.;orthiness of First Arabian r.orporation? ~ T.... S. ~1EA~Y: :':!<. IJ . noonY : u~ly ~cotland Y~r~. The han. ~1 inister of Industrial. ~ !r.

Speaker, our concern with this particular organization of course has been its interest in the Come by Chance refinery and its ability to finance the reactivation and the ongoing continuity of the operation itsel f . As for its operations and dealings in other parts of the world,certainly t!le~r are of interest but they are secondary to our requirements.

If thesa people can demonstrate to the Province t hat t hey have the financial capability and capacity to reactivate t he refinery ~o ~ake it both creditable and viable 9 then certainly this Province and the government of this Province 1.;ill have no hesitation at all i n going along 1-1ith the propo s al t:lat they .,culc .. put in place. Our interest is in the Come by Chance situation anrl of the ability of a cornoa~v to take over, to operate and to nake a success of t hat rather unfortunate situation that <le have out t~> C!re now. "!·lhile i t is true t hat the First .".ra b ian Corporation i s 305 :.

J.ece:::be r t~. , t9 78 Tape 124 !)!. - 2 one about ~o:hich very li ::tle i s known pUbl icly . I ~ ave been given to unde r stand that this is not an unusu3l situation for comoanies , holding companies, finan c ial groups who get together looking for investme:J.t opoort:unities. Soue of the s h _ ouds~as it were~ t hat ;;oere surro=dit'lg that c:or.rpany hopefull y will be taken off ;~hen t hes e people 'Jisi t us on :!onda:y. I might S\l&gest to hon. member s opppo & i~e that i t might be advisable i f they to try to get an appointment to see Mr . Tamraz and his associate s. They •Hill be in St. John's on ::onday . -~ ; 306

December 7,1978 Tape No. 125 ah-1 ~~.l>' .DOODY; Han. gentlemen opposite seem to have little or no problem in contacting other groups who are interested in the goings on in the Province and the activities of the Province and inueed it is the~r right and duty so to do. I myself have no difficulty in contacting Mr. Tamraz from time to time,albeit we have had to go from ~ew York to Paris to Zurich to London and back to St. John's and on and on again,but he is obviously a very mobile person. TI1at may or may not be a good thing depending on what business you are in.

As I said from the beginning, Sir, our interest is in making absolutely certain that First Arabian Corporation's offer is in the best interest of the Province of Newfoun~land. It may very well be that it is not, but we have no indication that this is so. We have been led to believe, all the indications that we have had to date both in our discussions with that group, with the receivers, with ECGD, with Kleinwort Benson, ~nth responsible business people whom we have talked to on this thing,including our ~ fiscal advisors in New York who have looked very carefully at Mr.

Tamraz and his associates,have been that we have no reason to feel anything but confidence in them from a fiscal point of view, from a financia-l point of view. _ !Ve have also been told that they have good relations with management peo~le who could indeed make the refinery an operating entity which would be capable of carrying on a good refining capacity for an indefinite length of time.

We understand that they have the capacity to obtain the raw product ••hich is necessary for the refinery. ~>e have been told, and have no reason to disbelieve 1 that they have a partnership in the United States who are capable of doing the distribution of that product. rle understand that they have associated themselves with a very reputable and well recognized chartered bank in Canada who will act as the central banker for the financing of this organization and of the organization's activities.

To us it looks to be very, very encouraging and we have no reason to discredit them, •<e have no desire to discredit them. We want them to come to us as soon as possible and to demonstrate the capacity that has been suggested to us that they have. vie have no reason to discre~it them~as 307 :.

Decemher 7,1 978 Tape ~l o. 125 ah-2 I say ,and TTe do not: want to discourage them. Pe want to get that refinery operating again. j 308

~ece~~~r 7, 1~78 Tape :;o. 126 ,~~· .1. F'.OHE: A supplementary ou t:1is. A fi::-.al supple.men~ary. Certainly co one ~·:oulc want to subject a::.y visitor to the Province, or any industrial visitor to t~e Provi::.ce, to t::e circus vrh1c:1 ~~r. Sh~:1een 'tias 3ubj ectecl or any of :1is associatc:s sor.te years cf.O in t~e House ry the then opposition. :::ut, Sir, I t::..ro\v out the suggestion with a ge!luine spirit: :•?'oulC. the. ::1inister not think it advisable thc.t in addition to the government neeting with ~!r.

Ta.~raz and 1-.is .f!ssociate.s ~vhcn. ~le arrives h~re, unul d. :'lc not think it advisable for a co=ittee of t!:e Eouse, frc::t both si:C.es of the House, 'vould sit dmm and tal~ to hi::~ even if it is i::t camera in order to ?Ut certain questions to hi!:! ~-cl his associates and find out, satisfy thenselves on certain vitc.l questions 1-1hic:t I 1--.no~v I r·.ave as a -ne~ber of tllis !louse and ;rould li!:e to see ansvered? .~nd quite frc.nl:ly it is !'.oc that I do not trust t~e gove=.ment as such 'but I ~ ·~auld li1:e '·rith cry o~· ~ eyes ~ent le~en ar...d rut some questions ~o thetr., tr_el'tbers fror:t ~o t::t sides ir: cy ci~L~ ~a:--. l.}e c..nst~ercC. in a ser .. sible. f2.shion.

Is thg,t r:cc .... gcoJ suggestion, a genuine suggestion t:1at we have 2. CCt"'.tnittee oi t:1e E.ouse ir .. tervie\·7 the gentle~an "J;l-.~.en he arrives in ~ civilized u"'cent manner to elicit info=ation for tl1e benefit of tlle people? T:1e :10n. ;Jinister of Finar.ca. :'R. DOODY: There sae..:.~s to be a li t:1.~ ~it, soaet1li!1.3 incon~ruos a.~cut all t~:.i3, ask.ing foL a co!:!nittee of t:1e Hou.s2 to inte.rvie\\1 ~lr. Tam.ra.z and Ili3 associates i..--: a civili '!2d. a.ild ~1on-partisan manner.

I do :10t thla::: t:la.t I coulcl r-:al~y r:eeorr.mend to ::1y eolleagues t.~l.:lt .!!. co~.m.it~2e. of t=::e Eousc '.:.e s-:=ruc~-:. to ir .. tcrvic~·:' or talk to :~r. Tn.mraz. ~he ?eople on this 309

'!'e?e ~ o. 125 !:':OODY: are ':'<! Sp o nsi~l3 fo r loo l.:.ing i::~to t .:,e situa ::ion a ~ ::o= ::::!f c:·.a:::c:l!: o::tc! ! 1 of lo o l ~ :l & aiter t=at sort of tirl.::lg. They ~•.are electecl fo r c::at ::- ~rpos~ and so far t~e juc!gements ::1at t:-,ay ~ ve ;;;ad a ':ave ~ ea" ve~ r easonable and ve~ sensible .

I :1ould :.ate very z::•.u: ~ to :.ave ::us sort cf sitaa tioa occt: r ::hic :1 ::es cl.ted in t 1" o ri.gi UE.l refin3:;y c!eu ) the ref inery de.al 1-r:tic . ~ :1ould ::o.ve fo u,.-:d t:::c Provinc e Cro~·:<:l corpon:.tion :.;ti ch •.;as done ;,y s ome of t~e e coao:.\i c an~ o:: goocl l ue!~ l''e ~r.anag ed to get off t: e :..ac!t ~i anc :10 ~1 fi:::.cl oarselve s - (I:t£.ucib le) • '!'R. DOO Y: . b-d :to~ : , Sir, i.f I may ~v.z ?e"t:r'..issicn. ::o :ms l-'"er t:1e questi ons taa t neve '-'een as ·ed I -.Jill tell you t!le. t it ie - : ~. SPE.\.'\:!:!'.: ; ll 3i 0

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 127 EC - 1 !·!R. DOODY : House who demonstrated extreme good business sense in getting out of that Crown corporation at Come By Chance long before the roof caved in on a $600 million debt which this Province could ill afford to handle and found ourselves now fortunate, if one can call being in the hole for $47 million fortunate, in not being held responsible as a Crown corporation for that $600 million mess.

The fact of the matter is, Sir, that I find it very difficult to recommend to my colleagues that they include some of that sort of advice into a committee that would discuss the reactivation of the Come By Chance refinery with that group, the hon. group who are opposite. If they want to contact Mr. Tamraz and his associates, as I said, that is certainly their right, their privilege; and I respect them for it and I think it is their duty and they should do it. SOME RON. MEMBERS: :•!R. SPEAKER: Hear, hear!

Before recognising the han. the member for Burgee - Bay d I Espoi£ 'ior a supplementary, I would welcome to the gallery on behalf of all han. members, the Mayor of Bonavista, Ur. Frank Little, and the Town Manager of Bonavista, Mr. Calvin Rose. join me in welcoming these gentlemen. SOME HON. HEI!BERS: Hear, hear! I know hon. members UR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the han. the member for Burgee - Bay d'Espoir. ~ HR. SH!MONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary to the same minister.

If we had the same licence to debate with him about business sense, we would talk about the government's business sense in buying off Burns Brothers, if we want to talk about an issue. MR. DOODY: Buying off Burns Brothers? :1R. SIMNONS: That is what I said, Mr. Speaker. 311. I.

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 127 EC - 2 }!R. SIMMONS: . ~r. S?eaker, I have a supplementary for the minister. SOME HON. MEMnERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS: I said if the minister wants to talk about business sense of this administration I will give hi ~ some examples, including buying off Burns Brothers. ~ IlL SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The hon. gentlema .n has been recognized to ask a supple~:~entary from the previous line of questioning wi h respect to the proposed or possib1e purchasers of the Come By Chance oil refinery, so questions have to be on that. ~LR.

SlHHONS: We got carried away by the minister's somewhat extraneous ans~er, butT realize that is his p roblem, not mine. A supplementary , M r. Speaker. Re has mentioned Mr. Tamraz as a principal ,_ ; ~ ': f I. ~ 312 T

7 . ~ecember 7th., 1978 Tape }io. 12A Dl-~ - 1 ~!R. R. SUrl-:Ol'S: of ~he organization, Pirst Arabian. Hould he indi c ate whether, to his knowledge, ~fr. r.aith Pharon, G-a-i-t-h P-h-a-r-o-n, Mr. Gaith P~aron is a principal of the First Arabian and/or if he is going to be among the group government will be meeting here on ~onday? Ron. minister. :-!R.

DOODY : I have never heard of a gentleman called Caith Pharon and I have no idea whether he is going to ~~ here on !'onday or not • I certainly have no indication that . ie will be a member of the group from First Arabian.If there is such a ~erson associated with First ~rabian . it has not been brought to my attention. However, if this gentleman is coming to St. John's I do not know what it would be for . I know nothing about him at all. ~aybe he_would be very welcome. I do not know. lffi.. S!l~!ONS: A supplementary. ~!R. SPEAKEP: A supplemen!ary. MR.

SU~ONS: I have no idea whether he is coming or not,that was not the point of my question. AN RON . MD!BER: (Inaudible) "!R. SDIHONS: Hell there ~•as at the time the Commonwealth Bank transaction took place, I tell the minister, because he was~! believe,the princip~l involved with First Arabian at that time. The point of my question was to determine c;hether there had been a changeover in somewhat recent times of the control of First Arabian,but I gather from what the minister has said he is not aware of 'mether that person will be among the delegation. Is that correct? ~'R. SP~A.lZER: 11on. minister. !~.

DOODY: To my knowledge the Ch~ef Executive Officer of the First Common•;realth Bank of Detroit is a gentleman named Stickles, ~·1r. ~-omething-or-other Stickl'es. Al'! HO:.J. ~lr.'EER: !anny Sticl:les. '11> •• DOCITJY: Danny Stickles,is it? I do not know. He is a delightful !ittle man. P.e seems to be very capable with lots of money. Lovely ~an! 313 .· • l

~ecember 7th . , 1978 1)0,1 - 2 ~rR • SPEA..'-:ER: Thehon. me~er for LaPoile folloHed by the hon. ~entle!uan for Fogo . '!?. . S .1\'Y.ARY: ~.r.

Speaker, ! '''ant to ask t he !1on. ~linister o£· Labour and ~fanpot·!er, Sir, if the hon . gentlemlli\ is at~are of the savage anti-union movement that is on down at racio station CJYQ since the break - up of CJON radio and television when t'!'ley branc.~ed off on their own, CJYQ r'adio, the savage anti- union movement that has been going on and not~ cul!:'.inacing into a move~t,into an application by ~he oHaers of that station, the otv-ners and operators after spending large sums of roney to fight the employees and the tunion and to intimidate the employees and fight the emplo y ees and frigh ten them and 314

December 7, 1978 Tape 129 PK - l Mr. Neary: fire some of them)is the minister aware that there is an application now made to have the bargaining unit in that station decertified? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if it is gone before the Labour Relations Board, but it certainly has not come to my department because I am very familiar with the applications in that respect. You know, as far as I am concerned it has not come to the department. It may be before the Labour Relations Board.I do not know. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Well, Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary. A supplementary. have here in front of me, Sir, reams of documents .. in connection with this anti-labour movement that has been going on by the owners of that station. I believe, Sir, with the difficulty that employees are having in this Province to get organized, stay organized and bargain, the han. gentleman should undertake to look into a statement made by Mr. Colin Jamieson,the owner of that station- MR. HOUSE: Who? MR. NEARY: Mr. Colin Jamieson. And I realize, Mr. Speaker, the consequences of what I am doing.

My name wilT now go up on the bulletin board down there.' No.more re 1 eases from Neary.' MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: I understand that, Sir. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: That is right. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I must point out to the hen. gentleman and I quote from a ruling of the Speaker in the House of Commons April 20, 1964, and it is certainly germane here. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! A question must be a question,not an expression of opinion,representation, argumen~ation, nor debate. The question must 315 ii

December 7, 1978 Tape 129 PK - 2 Mr. Speaker: be brief. A

preamble need not exceed one carefully drawn sentence. A supplementary question should need no

preamble. I know hon. members would wish to confine their questions to the rules. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR . NEARY: Thank you, Sir. I was just merely pointing out to the House the discrimination and the censorship that will go on as a result of m.v asking a few questions for the pr0tection of these employees down at CJYQ radio who are being intimidated, Mr. Speaker. Is the hon. minister aware that one of the owners of that station made a statement last year that bargaining with the union is useless?

Would the hon. gentleman undertake to look into the whole situation down there to see if there is anything that this government or the Department of Labour can do to try to rescue the employees from the savage,anti-labour movement that is being carried on by the owners and operators of that station? AN HON. MEMBER: ~ho are the owners? MR. NEARY: I believe one of the owners, Sir, is - we hear him every morning like a bull ffog. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: the open line. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. HOUSE: Order, please! He is just like a bull frog every morning on Order, please! That is one of the owners.

The hon. mem~er may not question private members. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned I do not have the information, It has not come in in the last month,I am certain of that. There is no information crossed my desk in the last month. But I will undertake to look for that ream of information,as the hon. gentleman has it. MR. DOODY: You will not have to. Turn on open line tomorrow morning. AN HON. MEMBER: Turn on Bas Jamieson. 316 . 1

December 7, 1978 Tape 129 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Fogo. CAPT. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the same han. minister but in his other capacity as Minister of Education. The question arises ou~ of a teleoram which I received from distrubed parents at Job Batt's Arm and_ Barr'd Islanc. The disturbed people or the families are concerned that the school bus is passing their home without picking up the children. "They have always been bused to school and now they have to walk.

We want to know why since the bus has to go this way and it is not loaded." Aoparently there has been some regulation in force- I do not know whether it is a reoulation but there is certainly some rule now applying whereby buses pass by those students and fail to pick them up. Is the minister aware of this si tua ti on? Is there anything he can do to rectify the matter? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Education. MR. ROUSE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did have a call from the same people yesterday,or one of the people involved. The fact is that has been no change in regulations.

The regulations that we have in the department always have been the regulations is that the pupils livinq outside of a mile, and,if there are more than ~ix 1 of Gourse, will be bused to the school on the regular school buses. What has happened in the past, of course, down in that particular area when the school buses were not crowded they used to pick them up inside the mile. The school board I think this year made a deliberate decision to not pick anybody up inside the mile because people want to qet picked up at three-quarters of a mile, half 317 . # I.

Deceml:er 7,1978 Tape No. 130 ah-1 ~!F.. HOUSE: a mile and so on. 1 so the situation is that the board is carrying out the regulations. I promised this lady that I would get in contact 1~ith the superintendant in the area who is of course administering that particular district. I have not been able to reach him because I just got the call from her yesterday and I am going to do that. As she described it to me,the board is within regulations and of course they picked people up inside the mile last year which they are not doing this year.

So there is no pressure that we can put on for them to pick them up .Jntil the regulations are change<i and of course we have not any plans to change that regulation. CAPT. wiNSOR, MR. SPEAKER: CAPT. ;n:.;SOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary. This telegram, }!r. Speaker, suggests that they are picking up children inside of the mile and they have been doingthis all down through the years and all of a sudden it is cut off. :rrL HHXNA};. : ~iR.

HOUSE: They were doing it outside of regulations. .They were doing it outside of regulations. they were picking them up inside the mile, yes, before,but this year they are adhering to regulations. 1-'P. SPEAKEF: Bay d'Fspoir. }IR. SI~ONS: indicated that a . ~oard, A supplementa~J1 hon. member for Burgee- Yr. Speaker, the minister has just I presume he is talking about the Terra Nova Integrated School Board~was doing something outside the regulations, busing youngsters outside the regulations. l~ow I understand they have decided to do it within the regulations.

I infer from whst the minister has said that that la the case. Could I ask the minister then if this ne1·1 decision is a result of some new directive from the minister's department? Has the min:· >ter or his department sought to recover funds from the board for acting outside the regulations last year? 31.8 j

December 7,1978 Tape ~o. 130 ah-2 ~!B.. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. HOUSE: No, Mr. Speaker, ~~e have not given any new directions whatsoever.But the cases have been in the past where a bus was travelling a route and the bus was not loaded,for instance, a fifty-eight passenger bus carrying forty-five pupils;- they come inside the mile and there are a few pupils up on the road and they Jeici;:ed t.1ez:: up. 1·1e have never said you cannot do that, but if they came to us and said, ''We want a bus to bus these pupils" we would say no.

We have not changed· our policy at all, the policy has been the same,and I suspect that there are a number of places where pupils are picked up inside the mile when the room is there, when the space is there. There has been no change in our policy and there has been no directives to boards. MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member for St. George's followed by the hon. gentleman from St. John's West and Bellevue. 'MRS ~1 ciSAAC: Mr. Speaker, my question if for the ~inister of Municipal Affairs and possibly the ~~nister of Recreation may be involved 1 whichever minister wishes to answer.

Hy question is concerning the proposal put f9r~ard for the ~tadium project in St. George's. In view of the fact that they have a Canada \olorks project approved ~gain this year upwards to about $20~,ooo, I wonder if ~t is possible to get some kind of a commitment or a yes or no or some kind of an answer fo"t' the town of St. Geo:-ge's on this project since they have to either accept or reject the Canac\a ':Jorks project money by sometir:e in early January? I t~ould like to know were the project stands rig'bt now. l'R. SPE.AKEl': Ron. ~inister of Tourism.

I suppose I am responsib!e for recreation, or supposed to be. I tvill take notice of the question and check tli th the officials in that division ~.;hich will soon be transferred to the Department of Tourism as part of the Tourism Department. I will check with the officials in the Recreation division and get the information for my han. friend. 31.9

eceml)er 7, 1C! 78 Tape No, 130 ah - 3 YP, SDNONS: A point of order. }'R.. SPEAKER: A point of order. }'R. SU1MONS: Pr. Speaker, my colleague in good faith asked a question of the Minister of Tourism ass~ng that he was responsible for ~ecreation. ~:row he has indicated to the Rouse that t he does not know if he is responsible or not. I wonder would the Gove~ent Rouse Leader indicate to us who it is is answerable to the House on matters relating to Recreation and if it is the Minister of Tourism to so inform him so that we can get answers to the question? The minister did say to the House quite seriously, ~r.

Speaker, that he was not sure at this point in time. ·Well, if he is not sure. who is the minister responsible to so that we can put the questions to the appropriate minister? NP • HI Cia1' ..A~l : To that point of order 1 which it is not. Na. 1, it is a func:'amental rule !Q:lown to all parliamentarians'~ except one,that an hon. minis'ter dces not have to answer a question if he does not want to. Se.condly,_ if UJlder the Transfer of ]'ewers Act,which I am sure that again all hon. gentleman,except one 1 is fully familiar With ,an examination of that ~uld indicate who is r~ponsible. .... .. ~ -:. •· I. r ":. 320

D:ce~bar 7, 1973 Tape Ko. 131 ;-;!-~ - 1 liear, haar! ''n. SPL\..-.a:R: Order, please! Order, please! There is no point of order and I recognize the :1on. member for a su~plementary: SO~'E HON. :'W·ffiERS: Oh, oh! "!:' .. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! S'Y.-'E HON. :-!EHBERS: Ob., oh! ; ~!R. SPEA.'a:P.: Order, please! Order, please! The hen. member for St. Geor~e's. l~.S • c·!CISAAC: ~1r.

Speaker, I 1-Till direct my question this time to the :!inister of :'lunicipal Affairs since I understand that the project was fen-carded to the Department of Recreation to be returned to the Department of Municipal Affairs and then forwarded to Cabinet for approval or disapproval or whatever. So I would li::c ':o direct that C{uestion to tb.e ~li:J.is ter of ?·!unicipal Affairs. ~<here does the i'roject lie right now_? The hen. l-Iinister of !'unicipal Affairs. '!R. N. '"I!IDSOR: }lr. Speaker, the proposal is l::eing considered by both departments.

It is a joi~t proposal since the t"\-10 departments share in financing of arena projects. Officials of both depart:uents have loo!(ed at or are looldug at it. All I can say to the hen. memter is that it is being processed as expeditiousLy as possible. Ue are quite a"l-lare of the deadline on the Canada \_ror!:s projects and •,re ·.;ill get an ans"li'er to her as soon as it is CJhysically ;?OSsible. I am not satisfied t;ith t1:le: mini:;ter's ;.._ a:lm<er and I ~ - rould like to debate it on the Late Shm; since I >.nm~ j- it !"las ~een s~tting on cne ~inister's desk for quite some ti:J.e no1•r.

Hear, hear! .g ';. ;-':1le !'lon. !ner:lber for St. J o::n r s r.~.e st. I. JR. KITC~EN: r- t:m::rds t :1a !~ i:1ister of ConsU!".er .l'ffairs, =.r..d it r~fers to the ::. 321.

:::! - ~ J~. KITCHEN! i1av~ £ tia.jor probl2w iu getting t:1.eir facts together and they need expert help in getting tlleir fact5 to~e:t:"ler. Some of c:1.at "'tJUld be in testing t:1e bricks t.J see t"-tat the : so-called tests that ;.ave been carried out are i."'l effect valid.

They also need :1elp in perhaps taki:l.g down and seeL1g that · is behit:.d the bricks, to see :1hat is there and tney :1ave a?plied to various ~odies for assistance, financial assistance. :fy questi::m to t:12 :.:i.aister of Consumer Affairs is, 'Till he or his department i1elp fiuax.cially the Homeowners Association to put t}!.e:!:r case together in a sometvhat si!!lilar •JJay as t:;ey assi>lt, say, the municipalities when tb.ey present ti1eir case to the!

Public D"tilities Board a.."'ld somethin~~: like t:1at? \loulC: the ministC!r answer that que5tion and give the!!!. a fe~., dollars to The ~on. l:inister of Consuner Affairs. }lr. Spealcer, if there is any money in my ~udget. We are not a spending department to that extent~ but I must say that, like the han. l!lember !li:nself, and like sn T.any more, ~•e were astounded at what is i;appenin.-,. in ti1at particular area. I as:~ed all my consumer officials yesterday !:ow far Ci1ey '1ad gone. T7e have not :1ad one cot.lplaint ,tragically.

And I say that because •·Te are Constli!ler Affairs and ,.,e try to get out 1v!1at info=ation ~Je can to educate consumers as to their rights. He have not ~aC: one complaint to t!~e pr~sent lllOment about a..'ly defic:i.ency of '.larl-.r.tw.ship or anything else. If there is any request maC:e by the member for the district - !01 HON. ~·!E:1BER: Sit dOIO'U! If t••e hen. igaorant member '''auld be quiet - SO?'Z ilON. :lE!IBEP..S: Hear, hear! : • 322

~ec:noe r , 1978 tm- 3 • :R • :lln'.?!i'! : As I say,if there are a.•w requests for any ;,.e!.p ~!h atever, Sir, we will ce-ctaiuly =o everyt.i:.ing in our poYEr - Order, pl ease! Order, please! i·le are not, as I say, a spe.nding cie?art=t.

I do not have that: much money out I can assure the ~on . memaer t:1at is there is anyo::1ing •..ffiatever ic. our pO"Jer ~ e can co KE uill certainly help him and I no t ice t::~.o. t he and the ·:wn . ' iinis te-e of Eousi ng :'lave agreed to get toge cher to •.rork on this deal and if tlley want any help fro•• eny of ny department: t:1e !\elp is there for them in any WJ.y ?OSsible. ORDERS OF THE DAY: :-IR.. ii1C:0!A! : Order 1. Order - · the adjourned debate on The hon . member fo1: 'l'errn :lova . SO~~ !ION. ~n:::raE RS : Rear. hea r! :t:t. L\.'Si! : :·:r.

Sf>eaker, t3e mri:1 thrust of :ny renar :'.S on Tuesday •·rhen I adjourned t!:e cii!bete \·ICS t!'lat I >:Jas not criticizing or concemning the Throne Speec :1 on the hi!.Sis of i ts lac.~< of con tent o-c on the basis of its lack of S\lbstance alt!1ous h I sug:;;ested a e,ooc! case could be macie for t his purticul ar !)osition e.s a couple of ny colleagues did very 11ell . 'But to !l'.e, :1r . S!>ea~:~::, "' , ':. { I. ':. 323

ilecember 7, 1978 Tape :<o. 132 EC - 1 :JR. LUS!l: the real point in question in this particular Throne Speech is the credibility of the government. I pointed out, ~r. Speaker, that this government has established a routine, a habit of presenting similar Throne Speeches, similar with commitments and promises to develop this Province, similar also, Mr. Speaker, in the follow up or in the results of these proposed commitments and promises. And what are the results, ~r. Speaker? Record unemployment! !hat is the result, Mr. Speaker~ record unemployment\ Al;r HON. HEMBER: Right. l1R.

LUSH: An unemployment rate that has risen from 10.1 per cent in October of 1972 to an unemployment rate today of 16.5 per cent, a rise, Sir, of 6 percentage points. Six full percentage points, that is the record, Mr. Speaker, of this government. That is performance~ record unemployment, a level of ~nemployment that would not be tolerated anyplace else in North America. AN UON. !1EMBER: That is right. HR. LUSH The obvious failure, Mr.

Speaker, of the government to follow through with any practical action or the lack of any tangible results from promises and commitments of previous Throne Speeches, combined with other factors which I named the other day, such as the total mismanagement and squanderin~ of the public dollars of this Province, government structuring and restructuring ... ~ which h~s created a bureaucracy that has completely isolated i- and alienated the people of this Province from its government; failure of the government, Mr.

Speaker, to ~ live up to its previous commitment to embark upon a programme :. of development based upon spending the public dollars of this .. Province on an equitable,regional basis. And, Mr. Speaker, you only want to look at today's Packet to see that the ~ government did not follow through with this programme, 324

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 132 EC - 2 HR. LUSH: with this commitment to spend the public dollars of this Province on an equitable basis, failure to develop our natural resources. And I indicated how we failed to develop,particularly, our hydro potential, our fisheries, forestry and agriculture, and I wish I had the time to go into these things in detail today, but I want to move along. And lastly, Mr. Speaker, a break- down in Cabinet solidarity, a completely breakdown in Cabinet solidarity!

Immature and irresponsible ministers who embarrass the few more mature and responsible ministers, ministers who are publicity hounds, ministers who will go to any extreme, Mr. Speaker, to promote and advance their own self-interest, that is the kind of Cabinet ministers we have. Well, let us say we have one commitment by the Premier now almost brought to fruition, and that is the Cabinet of - What was it the Premier said? Twelve to fourteen?

Well, we have it down to that now, but it is not through any deliberate ph!l~sophy, it is because the more talented people do not want to join these immature and irresponsible ministers, ar. Speaker, ministers who are bent on making silly and indiscreet announcements - and the :rinister of Health knows all about this - AN HO!l. !1EMBER: Falling out of bed over it. l-IR. LUSH: -ministers, Mr. Speaker, going around with powder puffs and combs and lipstick in their pockets, all ready to get on television any time of the day . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! HR.

RIDEOUT: Do not interview me yet because my chin is hanging down. MR. LUSH: No control in the Cabinet, .. ~r. Speaker, and for these reasons this government have lost the faith and the confidence of our people. 325

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 132 EC - 3 MR. LUSH: There is no public truft left in this g overnnent anymore. ~lobody believes this go vern~'!ent anymore. Now how will they believe in this Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker? It says very little. But our people will be lieve less about it . For years we have listened to Throne Speech es espousing long term plans for the fisheries, five-year plans for the forestry, long term plans for agriculture. Row we have another five-year term for forestry .· and another long term const ruction plan for hospitals. And, Mr.

Speaker, the only plan that I see any evidence of is the unofficial, unannounced plan of sho rt term industrial closedown. That is the only plan that I see that this government has, and t hope it is not .... ; ~ ':. 1l f. ~ 326

December 7, 1978 Tape 133 Mr. Lush: followed up by a short-tenu reopening plan. Now, Sir, in the Throne Speech the government was brave enough to try and pat themselves on the back and talk about progress, using PK - 1 some peculiar and .questionable measures. For example, they talk about the per capita income having increased to double what it was in 1972. They talk about the purchasing of more automobiles, refrigerators, and washing machines, certainly questionable measures, Mr. Speaker, of progress, things which happen just in the normal process of living, in the normal process of population growth. But, Mr.

Speaker, there was no reference to unemployment, no reference to our number one problem, no reference to the 33,000 people in this Province without jobs. And as I said, Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday a government that is bold enough to take credit for the sunshine must also take credit for the rain. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: And this government must assume responsibility, this government must assume responsibility for the unemployment level in this Province. This government must assume sole responsibility, total responsibility. That is the public policy of any government,to promote maximum employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: That is the policy of any government, that is why they are elected, that is the major responsibility of any government, Mr. Speaker. I know what the minister is trying to say, it is this job of this government to submit sound proposals to the federal government for job creation in this Province. And I could go into showing what the federal government is doing with job creation in this Province, the millions and millions of dollars they are spending. No mention of the fact, Mr. Speaker, that we are the highest·taxed people in Canada. No reference to that.

No reference about electricity costs. No mention of this silly cost of fuel adjustment that we find in our bills each month. No reference to that, Mr. Speaker. Well, Mr. Speaker, I challenge the ministers today to get up and to take responsibility for these unfavourable aspects in our economy. \~hat about jobs for 1979? How about the people that are 327

December 7, 1978 Tape 133 PK - 2 Mr. Lush: living beneath the low income level, beneath the proverty line, the 52.1 per cent of unattached individuals living beneath the proverty line, and the 16.7 per cent of families living beneath the proverty line. What are they going to do about these people? Are we going to raise the minimum wage for them? MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. LUSH: SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WOODROW: Order, please! The han. gentleman's time has elapsed. Ah, too bad! Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! By leave! By leave!

The hon. member for the Bay of Islands. Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker,. I do not know whether I can compete, and am not going to try and compete with the han. member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush). And I think it is more important for us to help the poor people of this Province, SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: -and that is what I_am s~anding up here for and that is why I am elected. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: But in the closing words of the member's speech he mentioned the closedowns.

And anybody in this Province who has any common sense at all knows that these closedowns have come about because of the squandering and the waste of a former administration. AN HON. MEMBER: No way~ SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: In fact,why was it done? In fact,for political reasons only. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . NEARY: Will the han. gentleman, Sir, permit a question? 328 '

December 7, 1978 Tape 133 PK - 3 MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I ~~ould like first of all to - ' MR. NEARY: Is that why York Harbour closed down? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! When an han. member asks if another will yield, when he does not, then that , of course, has to be taken, and the hon. aentleman continues without interruption. He may yield, but he obviously is not obliged to. MR. WOODROW: I would like first of all, Mr. Speaker, to congratulate the member for Mount Pearl (Mr. Neil Windsor) who has now become the Minister of Municipal Affairs, and also the member for Naskaupi (Mr.

Goudie) who has become the Minister of Rural Development. And also my colleague, the member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Hickey) who has been given the new post of Housing. I think that in creating this new post of Housing shows the importance that the government are placing on housing in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: Now I notice the Leader of the - Opposition is gone. I hope he can hear what I am going to say because I have just a little few words for him,that is all. I would like to tell him that after the great victory of the Right Hon.

John Diefenbaker in 1958, he was 329 - ~ ir . ..

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 134 EC - 1 llR. WOODROW: travelling on the 'plane to Alberta with Dalton Ca~p, and he looked at Dalton and he said, "This is the architect." ~ow :here is another architect also which I think the Leader of the Opposition should thank, and I am not saying this to make any hard feelings at all, I think that the Leader of the Opposition owes a debt of gratitude to one Hugh Shea. SOHE HON. MEHBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. l.WODROH: Because after all, if Hugh Shea had not run for the leadership of the Liberal Party, the Leader of the Opposition would have had to step down after the first ballot was counted. I do not know whether Newfoundlanders realize that or not. And today the Leader of the Opposition- the hon. Leader, I should say- would be down in his law office. So I want to say sincerely, I think he should thank Mr. Shea for doing him s~ch an honour. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WOODROW: Now I want ~lso.to speak of my good friend from Baie Verte- White Bay (Mr. Rideout). lie is outside the Chamber at the present time.

He is a hard worker and I think he is going far in the Liberal Party. You will be hearing more of him, in fact, as the years come on. And furthermore, I would say this, that the member for Baie Verte-White Bay - and this is an ~onour, you car eive it to another hon. member as well - he could win under any party label in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I do feel proud of him. SOliE RON. ME!1BERS: Hear, h~ar! HR. WOOD R0\<7: Now, Mr. Speaker, I just want to say a word about politics in general. Politics, as you know, are becoming more difficult each year.

It is becoming more d~fficult for Opposition, for government and for other splinter ~arties as well. That is, I suppose, because 330

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 134 EC - 2 :·1R . WOODROW: people expect more of us. And not only do they expect more of us, but also Open Lines are on generally speaking and also television/radio are always after us day in and day out. And they have a right to do so because they are out to protect the rights of the Province and the like. And really what we have to be today, we have to be dedicated people. We can no longer sit back perhaps like many politicians could do in the old ; days. You have to work maybe fifteen or sixteen hours each day.

And furthermore, if anybody things that there are any safe seats in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador anymore, I think that he could get a big surprise. And not only that, but the salaries~ ~any will agree with this that the salaries for MHAs today are so small that it is almost impossible to live on. In fact, many good people who could be attracted to politics and who would do a creditable job for the Province are remaining out of politics because of the mere pittance that they receive.

For example, young families have to· come, say, frql!l pl.aces like Baie Verte and from Buchans and from other places outside the city of St. John's. They have to make great sacrifices. It is not the same for the people who are living in St.John's - and I am not indicating that they have an easy job either - but I think these are really remarks that should be made. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am going to try & 331.

Decemb:r 7, 1978 Tape }To. 135 ~fR. mxmRow: to confine u:v fe~-r remarl:s to t:1e Throne Speech end maybe before it is over I nay have time to .say a fet• t.;ords about m~r m.m. district, the district c-f the Bay of Islands. ' First of all, I suppose if I "~>7ere in Opposit:!.on -sometimes I ~vish I 1·•ere because really,you kno~r, I could ~ave one heck of a great time. Because the Opposition, I am not undem:ining the place of the Clpposi cion, :rr.

Speaker, is to ~:.e.ep t~e gover::unent on. their toes and really tell t:I;.eu off and so forth and also their place. is to replace government in t!:J.e next election. That is really t!:J.e place of the Opposition a;.1.d that is their right, to try co C:o that. SOY-E F.ON. !·!El!BERS: Hear, hear: nt. \i'OODRCW: Now I think, :-!r. Speaker, that the Throne Spee~'l., let us use common sense, the Throne Speech is encouraging tc our people and I have not yet heard anybody in the Opposition say anything good about it. Tl~re must be somethin~ gooJ ir. i~, :-!r. Speaker.

It is encouraging, In fact I think it is the most encouraging Throne Speech tb.at I ever heard and I think ·what it is ,I lvould say 1 is a continuation of the policy of the PC Party to develop the natural resources of our Province in order to make this Province a ~ave province. Now 1•7hen hon. memi-ers sp<a:.... of repetitior. in the T:uone Speech, things lw.ve been repee.ted frc::~ '72 om;ard, why should they not be repeated? Re~em:..er in 1972 :::::.e PC Party set out to try to develop the natural resources. So t:lis .... ; t:"ling car.not be done i11 one year or two years or ten or tl,•enty iF y'-!ars.

And :io •"lOt forget ::~at a former leader of C:l.e Li'.:Jer..I l'"-!"ty, t:1e :ton. J 3. S:aallwood, his success, the success of !lis t~<enty-three .. -; 7ears depe::J.ded on the f.:.ct that he ,.1as completely repetitious. In ~ ~ fact :1e repeats things so people -would eventually unclersta.nd l:im, and ~ 332

December 7, 1978 Tape no. 135 NH - 2 u.\"'lderstand what :1e was getting :!t. ~<ow, ~1r. Speaker, I think our first great natural resource that the PC Party are trying to develop is the fis'-lery of our Province. And the minister, tlle hen. :·!inister of Fisheries, has travelled all over the Province in the last three years, in all kinds of l,•eather. I remember the tima he dressed up =ci visited Cox's Cove. :·Je almDst •..rent off the road, iu feet we did go off the road~and perhaps the goad Lord - well, so~ebody saved us. And as a result of his visits the gre~t development policy is nm; outlined.

A."ld it is outlined, Er. Speaker, in tlle Speech from the Tl1rone. I would just like to read a fe•-r passages. "T~!e regional fisheries develoiJment strategy is 'tlased on the best data available and our fisheries resource, harvesti.."lg tec!:mology, processing requirements and markets." Now ...-:1at better •..ray could the gove:::nment go about developing the fishery tC:.ai: lvhat is outlined here in the T'nrone SpeechZ "Officials of the Federal De~artl:lent of Fisheries were involved. TI1e fishermen have ' been consulted and t i1eir views will continue to be taken iuto account.

The Fishernen' s U:1ion :1as been asked for its v:!.e~•s. T'.:~ey do not always egree but th..:y have been asked for their views. '!he Fis!1eriC!s Association of ~Te1·1foucdl:md and Lal:rador ·7ill like'ldse have opportunity to comment. "The seco~d great najr;r stucly recently COO?leted 333 - j

December 7th., 1978 Tape No. 136 :JW - 1 ~. L. HOODROW: was the feasibility of a primary landing and distribution centre." And, of course, as is outlined in the Speech fr~ the Throne this distribution centre is to be established at Harbour Grace. Also, the speech goes on to say, "My ministers will introduce legislation to establish a fishery procurement and distribution corporation to operate the uort." ~ow, Mr.

Speaker, I think really this is something.I do not think the Minister of Fisheries and his associates and the Cabinet associated with him just sat back over the last three or four years and did nothing,I think they have set up a great programme for the fisheries in the Province of ~;"ewfoundland and Labrador. .\nd also this speech speaks about inshore ports,for example. Also,there is a programme outlined for the ~ongliner fishermen as well. Ann I believe and I want to say this, ~r.

Speaker, I want to say to the Opposition,to all, we cannot fool with our people.~he fishery in'the Province of }Tewfoundland and Labrador is our most lhmportant industry and we should throw aside politics when something com7~ ~p . like this.

I am sure,actually 7 the people for whom the members of the Opposition are ~vorking - they elected them - they ~•ant also the" !!!embers to ~vork on behalf of the fishery and I think if t11ey came out and said, "My r,od.at least the "!cores Government have done something, :hey may not have done everything but at least they al!e trying and nmo1 they are off on a very good programme." HR. T. RIDEOUT: Did you read my speech? :U' .• L. HOODROW: I nhink that is important. HR. T. RIDEOUT: I have said that . !!R. L. WOODROlo/: Very good I say I have mentioned you already. HR. T.

RIDEOUT: And 'I hope you "ill 1'\ention me again. .. MR. L. WOODROW: Oh, you will be mentioned again several times. I wish the government and the fishermen well. I hope the 334 ·J

December 7th., 1978 Tape ~o. 136 nH - 2 !lR. L. WOODROW: Opposition, the unions will co- operate to give our fishermen a decent living. C~ne are the old days. I know about the Water Street gang of merchants, I know about the merc.'IJ.ants t.Jho lived in ~1orthern Bay and Ochre Pit Cove and)in fact, down on the Southcoast. In fact; they literally bled our ?eople and thank God those days are now gone and I hope they are gone forever, ~!r. Speaker. Now, also, ~~r.

Speaker, another natural resource here I want to mention - he is gone out of the Chamber now1 · the hen. ~inister of Yines and Energy - I refer to the hydro development of the Province. I think,in fact,that this, reall~ is one of the greatest single things that has ever happened in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

When you think that, at the present time in the corporation,the Province of Newfoundland has fifty-one shares., fifty-one shares and - I will use the word Canada Canada has forty-nine shares, and also on the board there are six Canadian directors and there are five ~-l ewfoundlanders but tl:ie Chairman, the sixth one has two votes, I think that hydro develop- ment in the Province of Newfoundland and Labraqor is. now in good hands • . \nd I hope that we continue with the development of it because it is going to give many jobs to the people in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

To quote the speech again, '~!y government has just signed an agreement with the Government of Canada to establ1sh the Lower Churchill Development Corporation. That coporation will be incorporated ander federal charter 335 ..

, . December 7,1978 Tape No. 137 ah-1 }'R.l-TOODF.OW: and we will begin a new phase of development of the massive hydro-electric resources of Labrador. The corporation will be seeking to remove all obstacles to the recommencement af construction work in the Lower Churchill basin. Yy government is working now to attract energy intensive industries to Labrador as well as ultimately provide a transmission line to the Island." t-'R. NEARY: Would the hen. gentleman permit a question? ~fF • 1-.'00DP.O'I;o!: I am sorry,no. I am too interested in what I am saying I think, Hr.

Speaker, that is one of tl:e greatest things and I do not know why the 6pposition would interrupt the issue. ro they not want to hear? Are they not proud of this? !o'R. NEARY: llould the hon. gentleman oermit a question? I'R. WOODROW: I know I am proud of it. I am very proud of it, Hr. Speaker. ~'R. NEARY: Can I ask the hen. gentleman a question? ~- . HOODROI<': I am very sorry, Yr. Speaker;in fact I have not got time at the moment. I am tryiug·to give a speech. Now on the - ask the Minister of ,Mines and Ener~. Mr.

Speaker, again,on the offshore minerals. ''In 1978 a strong position taken by 1'1Y government on. affshore and gas exploration was proven to he uise and prudent. Drilling resumed and another major gas strike resulted. Imperial Oil has just announced - and we all heard this- its plans to drill in 1979 and as many as ten operations maybe . going on simultaneously In 1978 some $46 million was spent by the oil companies and expenditures in 1979 could be close to $200 million.~ And then,in fact,you will hear the Leader of the Opposition say thia Province is on the verge of bankruptcy.

I will be speaking about the ~resent credit rating of the Province. Look at the faith these people have in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. ''Through the petroleum regulations my government is well equipped to maximize benefits to Newfoundland in terms of direct employment expenditures on goods and services within the Province. A Nanpower Information System is already in place to 336 j

December 7,1978 Tape No. 137 ah-2 MR. WOODROW: match jobs with people. Funds have already been received from oil companies to establish training courses to meet the needs of offshore operators. Companies will be increasing their research and development expenditures in the Province. Nevertheless l my government will give highest priority to environmental controls" t And, Hr. Speaker, I believe that is performance. I do not think,in fact,they were lying down and sleeping and doing nothing to get all these natural resources on the move. MR. RIDEOUT: Tell us about the Minister of Tourism. MR. WOODROW: Also, Mr.

Speaker - What do you mean? MR.RIDEOUT: All the investigation he is carrying on - I would like to hear about that. MR. WOODROlo7: I would like to ask you, in fact - MR. RIDEOUT: How many jobs does that provide? MR. WOODROW: -if you want to learn Canadian French where would you go? Quebec. AN HON MEMBER: Paris. MR. WOODROW: Not Paris. There is quite a difference Also, Mr. Speaker, in the field of - the hon. member is just trying to get me disturbed and upset, that is all,but I do not mind that - in the field, Mr.

Speaker, of rural development a lot has been done and at last our people are being encouraged to remain in the rural areas of the Province, not only remain there but they are given some opportunities, some means of living so that they can stay there.''My government in 1970 began a programme of rural development which involved the people cof rural areas in planning their economic destiny. Thirty-six rural development associations are now active and they have documented specific areas of potential development.

It is a process that is unique in Canada and which is attracting international attention:• I do not say, Mr. Speaker, that all these programmes have been successful but many of them have and I hope that they will continue. 337 ... I

December 7,1978 Tape No. 137 ah-3 MR. WOODROW: Now.another matter, Mr. S,peake-r, that I just wanted to mention bere. I a glad to know that t~e gove ,nlment is taking steps to reform the matrimonial. law and will be tabling a policy along with legislation tMs sess;lcm •. And I am glad to see 338 ' &

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 138 EC - 1 MR. WOODROW: women's rights under the leadership of Lynne Verge and Ann Bell in Corner Brook. They played a big

part in this. They were the first ones I called when I heard this in the Throne Speech, and they are extremely happy, and I feel, so are a lot of others in the Corner Brook/Bay of Islands/West Coast area as well. They think it is a good step and it is time it came. In the field of Education, Mr. Speaker, here again I would like to quote this part: ''My government will embark o~ major new initiatives in Education. We have accepted a recommendation of the Ministers Advisory Committee to introduce Grade XII on a phase basis beginning in September, 1980 with a Grade X class.

Details will be ?resented to this session in due course." Well, I think, Mr. Speaker, that really is a great step for Education in our Province. And not only that, Ur. Speaker, but the many other schools and the like, In fact, you can look at almost ever~_avenue of education and this government has tried to help out in every way. It has not done everything yet that it would like to do, but I am sure that it will continue to help the youth of this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I feel that the Opposition are going to be glad to hear this, they could not be anything else but glad.

Because I am glad and everybody else in Newfoundland is glad. Every person in Newfoundland must be happy. They are happy, Mr. Speaker, over the opening of the Linerboard mill in Stephenville. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: Very good! They are happy over something. MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) over the woods operation. MR. WOODROW: And they do not want to hear what I am saying, Mr. Speaker, because if they did they would pay ~ore attention. nut I do not mind that is up 339 j

December 7, 1978 Tape No. 138 EC - 2 MR. l'OODROl~: to the hen. members of the Opposition. I was disappointed, Mr. Speaker, over a statement recently after the announcement by the hen. Don Jamieson, a great Newfoundlander. And this was followed by the hen. the Leader of the Opposition. They were a bit worried because they did not think the Canadian Government would wipe off the tax, give the tax concession. You know, it is amazing. During the by-election over on the West Coast which we did not win or you did not win - and I quote what Mr.

Jamieson said - he said: "If the Liberal candidate was elected he would be on the government side and he would work to get the mill open.'' It is now no longer a political tool, thank God, but it is in the hands of a reputable company, Abitibi-Price, a company that my good friend from Windsor- Buchans (Mr. Flight), I am sure, appreciates. :1-IR. PECKFO;a.D: Beyond reproach. Beyond reproach. HR. WOODROlT: And it is·going to have, :1r. Speaker, certainly a big effect on the Stephenville-Bay St. George area, and also its impact will be felt all over the West Coast.

And I am delighted, because I am already trying to get jobs out there for the people of the Bay of Islands, and I am going to keep doing that as long as I am here in this House. And I hope I succeed in getting them, because that is what it is all about. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, he::.r! SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! l!R'. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I beg your indulgence, please. I would like to be heard in silence. Would you mind I. coming to my rescue? CIR. SPEAKER: (Dr. Collins) Order, please! The han. member has requested silence in which to make his remarks. 340

December 7, 1978 Tape ~o. 138 EC - 3 :-!R. liOODROW: Xow, Hr . Speaker, I want also to say a few words - this may be io the line of the Opposi tion, I do not know - I would like to say a few wor ds on ;he ~nemployment situation in general. HR. LUSH: Now you are get~ing at it. :-ta. '.IOODROW: ~low I am get tin g down to crass tacks, as the saying goes. 341

~ecember 7, 1978 Tape Xo. 139 r~ .. r - 1 ~~. 'h"'ODROW: ~1r. Speaker, there are sucn t!-tings as long-term jobs or per.nanent jobs. There are such things as s~ort-tem jobs or temporary jobs. And I feel sure, cfr. Speaker, that everybody, :all the members of the Opposition, t~1e members on t!1e govei'Ill'\ent side as well, they understand ~rhat e.utor:tation has done on not only finding jobs in our Province but all through- out the Dominion of Canada.

In fact,today,if a :rnun~ ~ellow or a young >roman, if they do not have "a skill or a trade it is almost im;?ossible, as everybody !mows, almost impossible to help them. In fact,I have talked,for example,with IOC and people of that ru>.ture tryin;; to C"et jobs, the first thing they ask, "~.fuat skills :1ave they ;;ct?" In fact,in order today to be a truck driver you need ~rade eleven. Irr fact,almost everybody today needs grade eleven to get any ~ind of a job at all. And ~·rhen people in the Bay of Islands district come to me and they say to me, I 'have 'lui t school in gred~ seve!l. nr gr11de eiG~lt.

I ah•ays tell them/'This •~as the saduest day in your lifa!' T'!:li2.y should at least to go far e1~our;h i:o ::;e.t r.Lay~Je a trat.i~ in ~.,ll.li!lbing or nay be in elect=icity, clectro~ic3 or ~-:rlle1t i::ave you. you l:now, the Opposition are asking,";,fuer. are. the government. going to make jobsi "And t~<ey have every right to ask that, In fact, t:-::at i-. tl1eir duty. 3ut I think,you kno~~,from wi1at '~e have i::eard in the Throne Speech tod.ay, or rather what I have quoted and uhat '",JaS read ~·rhen His Ronour ~·las in here, I tl1ir.~.k thtit long- term j o'bs are going to result - TI<e Lea~er of the Opposition in fact, I ~o not :-:nov ·.vl.1at I am to him, he does not want to listen to r.1e.

Eve:, i:O:: I am in the elevator he will not: spealc vritl1 me. I O.o not :mow \-/hat is wrt.ng? •-lhat ls \<rong? TI1is is going on. I. I thinlc :liS brother is such a friendly felloP l.1e sr.ould be tile leader m.aybe. I l•ad to get that little t:.i,g :.n )·ou kno~o~. It ma~r v;a!o:.e 1li1!. t:p eve~. I have not gotten :1-irr:. tc sm:..l~ yet cvc.n . 342

December 7, 1973 Tape No, 139 :iow I should say, !:r.

Speaker, that :1e ·~ill :::.ot speak •.;ith me anyoore now. ~Iy God \1:1.at have I do:::.e? :!lese things mentioned, tae fisaery, Labrador Li!lerboard mill and ot~ers are certainly going to result in permanent jobs. ~low I am also very much upset and I have not heard any questinns asked on this yet, I am upset tuat il'l the Bay of Islands district t:1ere are about eighteen or twenty men ~~he were on maintenc.r..ce, '·7inter equipment last year, they were on snow clearing, and they were laid off this ::,'ear. ,~d that really is distressing me very much. :':'low I do not know whether this is happening in the other hon, members' areas or not but I Y~ow it is happening in mine but it has not been brought up in this House yet.

AN RON, ~'!BER: It is not debatable. c·!R. RIDEOUT: We are trying to convince the minister to change his mind. ;,m,, l-IOODP.OW: '·Jell I hope :1e do~s change his mind, because this is a very seriou~ ~atter. In fact,unfortunatcly a lot of these people, unless they can find some te~orary job they have to tu~ to social assistance and that i~ not too good. rt1at is not too good 1 i11. fact ,for the people of t~1is Province, ~-~. RIDEOUT : 1f.1y do you not talk to him? 'lR. WOODRO\-l: I certainly have on several occasions. ;:. I Fill :;;eep on talking. I do not know. ~low, Hr.

Speaker, I :1ave also probably come ::J.O~·l to the point where I should say - yes I Has going to say, I feel th.s.t 1_nst:.ai of the tr..:o shifts. the two tw·elve hour Hhifts, t;1..,y ,._ should have three shifts. .. SOclE H0~1. :!EH"gERS: Rear, hear! ~:F.. mODROIJ: I go on record in sayi~g t~is because ";. I feel ~re have to keep our J)eople worl:ing. ; I. Now, l·!r, Speaker, I '·rould like to say .. a fev• Hares e~:Oout r.1JI o•,'!l Jis trict ~ time is fleeting on, Eir:ot of a::!. everybody knows that t:le llay of Islands district is 343

~ecer~e ~ 7, 1~7S ur ban and rur al. t.::td I a:n just pond erir. g the ur ban part beca use it really - t :1e urban pa::t ::el o:1gs to the cit:,• of Co rna r ~rook . I am very hap'fly to sey l±:! t =--'~AP anc Nt:? - I uo :lOt ~ve to e2>-plai:l t3ose ·~o r es !>eceuse fac:,a grea t p~r t ~~ che urban area of the 3ay of Island Cis t~ict . In : act cext yea r, !979, a 344 ... .. 1 ~ , ~ -:. , l ?- ~

December 7, 1978 Tape 140 PK - 1 Mr. Woodrow: programme costing $4.4 million will be completed. And also in this area there has been a lot of money spent from RRAP as well for people to do up thetr homes and the like, eh? And I understand that the programmewill be extended next year to the Mount Moriah boundary. Now there have been nice contour roads made, there has been new water and sewera9e installed in the Curling area, and many new lots have been opened also.

And I am hoping that the Minister of Housing will give the people living in the area the first chance, he will not let these lots go to outsiders, he will give the people in the Bay of Islands area, or rather in the Curling area, I should say, the first opportunity to buy these lots over there. MR. FLIGHT: MR. WOODROW: How much are they? I do not know yet. And also, Mr. Speaker, I have been dealing during the past Summer, have been talking over with the former Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housin9 the possibility of having RRAP extended to the Bay of Islands area.

It is, as you know, extended now to the Bay St. George area, and I am very happy for my han. friend for St. George's (Mrs. Mcisaac) because she must have worked to get that done. Good! So I am hoping, Mr. Speaker, in 1979 that I will be able to announce that the RRAP programme is extended to the Bay of Islands area. MR. NEARY: What about your federal member? MR. WOODROW: Well,! work very • very close with all the federal members, and I think he would probably let me announce it. At least the han. former member did, the hon. Jack Marshall. Now, Mr. Speaker, I just want to draw another comparison.

The North Shore of the Bay of Islands, part of the district of the Bay of Islands, and I have to smile at this one because really, when you get up and say nothing was done, My Lord, you know, I do not know if the people have a conscience or not. ~ut really~ I just want to give you an example of what was done in the Bay of 345

December 7, 1978 Tape 140 PK - 2 Mr. Woodrow: Islands, on the North Shore of the Bay of Island. In 1972 when the P.C. Government took ave~ in th~ Bay of Islands first of all, there was some of the main highway paved. And the only thing done over there was the Ballam Bridge. A lot of credit goes to my old friend the hon. Charles Ballam for getting this job done. Now,oka~ since that time we have water and sewerage well underway in almost every community. In fact, some communities are more advanced than others.

And these water and sewer system~may I sa~ are permanent water systems, and they are being done right, and that is the important thing about it. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WOODROW: No pork-barrelling any more. No pork-barrelling any more. I am hoping in 1979 that we will be able to start good permanent water systems in the community of Summerside and the community of Irishtown. They have systems already, but they are only temporary water systems and they are not as good as they should be. Mr. Speaker, in the field of~recreational _ facilities I think we have been very fortunate.

We have, for example, a very fine arena in the community of Cox's Cove. There has been a fish plant since 1972 built in Cox's Cove, and this y~ar there is going to ~e another extension built to that plant. It is not going to ~e built onto the plant, but there will be a separate plant built, and this is giving a lot of employment to the people over there, plus the herring and the like. And also I cannot forget the race track in Meadows. A company over there has been very enthusiastic on this. 346 - ~- IL

December 7, 1973 Tape No. 141 EG - 1 :1R. lWODROll: was talking with Mr. Hayward Bragg, ~e has the contract for snow, and I told him that I would mention this in the Douse today because he and two or three other members of the company have worked very hard ! to get this racetrack in Meadows. i Now I would like to ask my han. friend from Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. Rideout), How is that for performance? That is performance! And that is ; going to continue. SOME HON. MEMBERS; Hear, hear! MR. FLIGHT; You are not doing as well as the member for Green Bay (Mr.

Peckford) though, I guarantee you that! '1R. lVOODROW: Oh, you know, the time will come. Mr. Speaker, since 1972, the community of Mount :1oriah has completed a water system in the neighbourhood of something like $800,000. And there was a road paved down there this year, the Serpentine Road, at a cost of $136,320, . I think that ~as ~he exact contract. And there are also good recreational facilities.· At the present time they are negotiating now with the C.N. to lease or purchase a piece of land in the area for a football field and other related sports. So that is not too bad, Mr. Speaker, I suppose.

That is something. And also along the shore, continuing on down the South Shore, we have - AN liON. }!EMBER: Five minutes. -'oh, I will finish in five minutes, do not worry about that - we have very good recreational facilities. The fish plant in the Benoit's Cove area is giving a lot of employment. And I would like to mention that Allen's Limited are very fine corporate citizens. They are not, in fact, trying to squeeze every cent they can out of the government. In fact, there is very little 347

December 7, 1978 Tape ~o. 141 EC - 2 MR. lWODROW: government money in this fish plant, but they know that if they need any aSsistance they will be able to get it because they are a good, honest, down-to-earth firm, not like, in fact, some other firms that we heard about over the past year or so in this Province. Now, also, Mr. Speaker, if this is not performance, what is? Since 1972, hon. Leader of the Opposition, the road has been rebuilt and it has been paved to Lark Harbour. And also, Mr. Speaker, we have the new Blow-Me-Down park in Lark Harbour, which I think is good.

I am mentioning these things because, you know, when I sit over here I feel like getting up sometimes and jumping at somebody. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROlv: That is what I feel like. I do not mean physically, you know, but just frightening them. HR. FLIGHT: Is that the Blow-Me-Down golf course you are talking about? MR. WOODROW: No, the p,<~.rk. AN !:ION. !1El1BER: It is flattery. 11R. lVOODROW: So, I am telling you, I do not get taken nwav with myself. AN HON. HEHBER: You are doing a good job, 'Luke'. }1R. l-lOODROlv: So now, Mr.

Speaker, we have in these communities, the communities of Lark Harbour and York Uarbour recreational facilities as well. And, of course, about the herring meal plant in York, I am sorry that this plant had to be closed down, but the chief reason i it closed down was because of the lack of raw materials. But now there are six herring plants in the Bay of Islands area, and only in the last couple of years, or somewhere around ~ I there, nine or ten longliners went to the Lark Harbour/York narbour area only.

And I hope now with the increased interest in the fishing that we will be able to have that plant reopened again, because I think we must get it open. We 348

.)ece t.:L,cr 7, lS' iS Te:pe 142 C:i-1 ~ J'.. .iOOI"P.OU: 'I!LUSt, in fact, have u.en ~;orking anc it 11'\!St te open for enviro=ental rea<:ons :=.s >1ell. You cannot nave the offal from the :1errin~ floating around on the beaches and t:~e l::!.:.:e. So, ~~r. Speaker, I think lilY ti~ ~as just about expired, but I would lil-e to say I do r.ot knou r.·ho the P. C. 's are putting in the .3ay of Islx:o.<ls tae ne":t tirJe, L ut in any case I I·Jant to ;;ish the party lud~ and God bless everybody. Thanl~ you. Zear, hear: I:=t. SFElUG:I'.: lion. mer;J.uer for Trinity - Bay cle VerC::e. ::R. !.. ROviE: Er.

Gpeaker, on Tues<iay, r::ecember 5, the ~:inister of Tourism stood in his place wd unleashed, Sir, one of the n.ost personal and one of the :nost vindictive character at tacks on two r.:embers on this side of t:.e Iiouse of Assel!'.bly, namelY, the Leader of ti.e Opposition and myself. Sir, I have never vTitnessed in my life suC.:1 a despicable perfo=nce in my years, at least, as a t::etr.ber of the llouse of .\:3seml.lly, nor as an observer of the Liouse going back to the tiL:e -~::en the House sat in the old Colonial 3uildins.

Sir, the ::inister of Tourism's speech was an e"ample of the loHest and the dirtiest a.TJ.d the filtl:iest fo= of personality assassination~ that I· have ever seer:., ti1at I have ever re.:.d about, or I have ever heard. Sir, on Tuescay, t:.e :cinister of Tcuri:;rn levelled a serious accusation at Be, na:nely, t:1at I had used tile fisheries !;eminar to pre.;,;ure a ;)erson or pere.o::.s into 6ivint; ;::olitical contributions to the> Liberal party. limr, 3ir, ~.oH e"actly C.id the I~iuister do t~1is?

Sir, :,e .Oic' it in the uilciest fas;1ion possiC.le ~ ~Le 1L"'1ister uttered from his lipo, 3ir, a LlO'w of :;currilous statements, innuendo, untruti1s and total falsei1oods. Sir, not o-ue of .... ;liS stater.1ents directed to.,..ard:; rr.e, not one si:".gle word, re:;er,.iJle.c a.1 .. iota of trutt:, not one single word. Sir, it was pure fiction, cel'-lsicn, .. :1.0 resemi.>lence to tl1.= truth. It Has ~urc. fabrication, Sir,. deliberat:a ';. : or :10t, I Co not know.

Sir 3 .>ince t~1ese c~1.arge.; received such 11ide It ~ cove.ra~ecl ti1rcug!.~ tL.e electronic LeC.ia and. in. 'uoth daily nc\lbp8.~ers a:1d ~ 349

bece~~er 7, 1972 Tape 142 G~l-2 }::'... Fa !\.OtiE .. that Illy :.nte;;rity a...'lci :wnour are c>ossii:>ly su;;p;ct bf the general j)Ublic as a result of the wilci ravin;;s of t:.e :.:i:lister of Tourism. ''~0'•'• Sir, I only need refer to t.u: Daily ,;e,;s and 'Z1e Telegram articles and 1ve !lave all heard of ·.vhat i1as gone on on the radio.

Sir, these charges - and I 'vis~• the ~tinis ter had the intestinal fortitude, Sir, to come into this i:iouse and listen to 10i1at I 'lave to say, or is i1e ~1idi.t.LE, away? -Sir, these cuarges ·.iill uot a,o U4lanSV.iereC:. .Jir, these charges i>y tue !·:inister "'ill be j)rover . to ·~u totally falseo, cow.l'letely false. Sir, the truth "ill out. Sir, I am a great "elicver in t;,;e fact that truth is the cast defence anci I !•ave no fear 'N;:atsoever au out truth in this inst<Jnce.

TJ.1e }:inister uay tvell 'uefore it is ali over. 1. ~ow, Sir, what eAa.ctly dici tiLe Linister say ill these ci;.argesZ Sir, I would like: to refer to ;;ansarci of Tuesday, u ~c~er 5, anci po~t out a nucber of ~uota~ions from the ' ~nister. " ..Jell, ;.;r. Speaker, :;r. Speaker, a certain Oj,>i-Osition wember of t:u; ;louse of A;;se:n.illy at that same conference, at that sa.'l!C conference, guess i'ressuring,, not :oolicitint;; .but j)ressuri:::~g_ certain conpanies to sive donations to the Liberal party at that same conference, and I can prove it'', the l!dnister said,"l:r.

Speal~er, &nd I c<m pass it to w.J colleague, t ile i...i::lister of Fisheries, the na;::es of the comp<mies, name3 of t:1e peo·:;.le contacted and a certain Opposition n:.emLer, spoKes= for fis;leries, ~;.t t,;e conference put the j)ressure on a certain com~- any, a certain corupany. at least one, a t lea<>t one, and I can 1-rove it'' - I r~peat - "I can prove it to make donations to the Liberal party." S5.r, after a j:Oi!lt of order tl;e ~ !inister .::ontinues on, "t:r. 3;ee.1..er , I C:o not intend to ..-ithclr.::.J ti _ _, remark. I am 350 ! l

Uecember 7th, 1978 Tape No. 143 Dlo/-1 }!R. F. RO"I\'E: telling the truth. " I am telling the truth. "The facts and everything I said this afternoon is facts" - are facts he should have said - "and the truth." That is directly from Hansard. And, "I am not going to withdrat.r, anything I said was the truth." It was the truth. Sir, further on in Hansard, the minister repeats; "What I am saying is that the same people" - the Liberals - "took advantage of the conference to use it for a different partisan reason, to raise funds for the Liberal Party." Then quoting from Hansard, Sir, ~~r. F. Rowe, '~r.

Speaker, on a matter of personal privilege, Sir, at the risk of being repetitious, I would like to inform this Rouse, Sir, that I did not approach a single person at the fisheries seminar for the purpose of soliciting." From Ransard,J-1organ shoots across; "I can name him." Well, will the minister come into this House now, Sir, into the Chambers and name the person to whom he is referring. I suggest, Sir, he cannot do that. I challenge him, Sir, to put the facts where his mouth is. t'R. F. "~\'RITE : Somebody should speak to him, even the }linister of Fisheries. lAR. F .

RO\o1E : Sir, further on, "~fy comment" the minister says "is that let those people who live in glass houses not throw stones.'' Hell, Sir, I ~~ould suggest that for those people ''he live in soap bubbles they should not open their mouth because it is going to burst around them. ''at. ~T EARY: lfuere is this big bluff? }ffi.. F. F.OHE: "The han. gentleman " .:lir, continuing the minister said, "would not dare call me a liar because I can pass the name of the company along to my colleague, the Hinister of Fisheries.

I will pass the name of the company along to the llinister of Fisheries." Will the Hinister of Fisheries now, Sir, tell the !louse the name of that company? I challenge the ~!inister. 351.

'T ~ecember 7th, 1978 Tape No. 143 RT-2 MR. F. ROWE: Has he been provided - will the ~nister tell me the name of the company? ~rn.. 1~. ROl·lE : Does he know it? MB.. F. ROWE: Does he 1!-..now it? Does the minister knolv? Does the minister know the name of the company? Sir, I go further. t<r. Horgan, "The name of the company, Mr. Speaker, has been passed;'presumably to the ~tlnister of Fisheries. Was that information passed to the ~finister of Fisheries, Hr. Speaker? l~at is wrong l~ith the ~'inister of Fisheries, ~tr. Speaker?

I ask the Minister now if he is a sincere, honourable gentleman, will he stand up and indicate to this ~ouse if this information has been passed along to him. }lR.S • H. ~!CISAAC : The Minister of Tourism is out there. :1-!R.. F. ROHE: Does the minister know the name of the company? Does the minister have any proof of what the hon. members say? MR. F. WHITE: He has to see his PR consultants first. }'R. F. ROHE: l~ere is the Hinister of Tourism, that gutless wonder? ~fRS • H. Y.CISAAC : P.e is in the room there. ~. S. !\TEARY: If he had any courage he ~mulcl be in but he has no courage. }!R.. F. ROlm : l~r.

Speaker, the hon. '·finister of ':ourism has escaped. He is hiding away. And the hon. '-finister of Fisheries ,tvho is supposed to Ciave the proof and information,is suddenly silent, one of the few times in the history of his political career ~e has not opened his mouth. Nolv, Sir, I can prove that the minister's charges were completely baseless, that they were completely and totally untrue, that they were slanderous if said outside the House, that they were a mischievous attempt at character assassination. ~lathing more than that, Sir! 352 I.

Dece~ber 7th, 1978 Tape 'To. 143 RT-3 Yl~. F. RO"I-.'E: Sir, no minister has stood up here and su~stantiated the charges and I submit there is only one reason for that, ''e cannot prove these charges. And I ask the 353 I.

December 7, 1978 Tape 144 PK - l Mr. F. Rowe: MR. NEARY: minister who is still outside of the House, Sir, - He has not got the courage to come in. MR. F. ROWE: -I challenge him to go outside of the House, since he is not in it, and go .to the press and repeat these same statements that he made inside of this Chamber. I would challenge him to do it, Sir. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. F. ROWE: foR. NEARY: the courage. MR. F. ROWE: Go on! I would challenge him to do it, Sir. What a joke! What a joke! He has not got And see what will happen. Mr.

Speaker, I have the proof that the minister was lying or used a terminological inexactitude in this House, Sir- MR. NEARY: An untruth. MR. F. ROWE: -- a number of them in order to vilify, assassinate, personality and character assassination. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I contacted an individual, the only person who I met at the fisheries ~eminar with whom the to~ic of fund raising was referred, the only person at that seminar that I spoke with where the topic of fund raising was referred. Sir, I showed that person a copy of the transcript. Sjr, he was sick.

He could not believe it when he read the copy of the transcript of the recordings of the House of Assembly. He could not believe it, he was stomach sick, that the han. Minister of Tourism would say ~<•hat he had said in the transcript. Sir, that individual informed me,that person informed me that while at the fisheries seminar he did speak to me, I knew that,and because of a news release made some days before by the Liberal Party announcing the formation of a fund raising committeef he asked me how things were going, very simply and we had just a little chat.

Sir, that person also told me that the sole initiative for the conversation was his alone. He told me that. Now,will the hon. Minister of - where is the Minister of Tourism, Sir? MRS. MCISAAC: Hiding in the back room. MR. F. ROWE: Where is the Minister of Tourism? Will the han. Minister of Tourism deny that, Sir? 354 . '

December 7, 1978 Tape 144 IB-2 MR. NEARY: He is just a big chaw mouth that is all. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. F. ROWE: Sir, the individual also told me that I had applied no pressure whatsoever to him and,in fact,he told me that I did not even solicit or ask for any funds or for a contribution. Now, Sir, is ~he minister going to come in here into this House and listen to this or what? Is he going to deny it? Is he going to retract it? Is he going to apologize to this House, Sir, for telling an untruth in this House? MR.

NEARY: His tongue is swung from his hips except when he is supposed to be there. MR. F. ROWE: Now, Sir, how do I know that the person to whom the minister was referring was indeed the person who I was speaking to yesterday afternoon? How do I know? It is very simple, Sir, because that individual informed me that on the very evening following the minister's accusations,the minister himself telephoned the individual who I am talking about. The individual, to whom the minister was referring, was telephoned by the Minister of Tourism and the individual was asked if he had heard the news.

The.individual did nqt knqw what he was talking about. And he was asked by the minister if he was embarrassed or sorry over it. And the individual did not know what he was talking about, Sir, so the minister said,"You will hear it in the news tomorrow, or you 1d 11 see it in the news tomorrow. " MR. NEARY: Let us get that straight. The minister went and called the fellow that you were talking to? MR. F. ROWE: The hon. Minister of Tourism called this individual, Sir, and asked him if he had heard the news of what he said in the House of Assembly that afternoon - MR. NEARY: And was he upset with him. MR. F.

ROWE: and was he unset with him. Now, Sir - MR. SIMMONS: Tactics! MR. F. ROWE: What does the Minister of Fisheries know about this, Sir? Is the Minister of Fisheries going to get up and apologize on behalf of the Minister of Tourism? 355

December 7. 1978 Tape 144 IB-3 MR. W. CARTER: I have n.o intention of getting involved in that sort of thing, Sir . MR. F. ROWE: That sort of thing! !.would not !:-lame the mini.ster. Did the Minister of Fisheries receive the infonnatioo fr'OIII the Minister of TourBm? MR . NEARY: Guilty by association. MR. F. ROlli£: I a.sk the hon. minister. 356

December 7, 1973 Tape 'iTo. 145 ~~t - 1 :'!t. F. !'.m;E: did he receive the information fran t:1.e :unister of Tourisl!l? :rrt. RIDEOUT: Old Perlican? ! 1 Strangely silent, Sir. Stran~elv silent. :~. NEAR:!: "ho is the spokesman for fisheries an)"".."ay? Thai: r.ti:1ister or that minister? !·:R. ? . R01ffi: ~'.R. NEARY: Chan moath or the hon. ;;entlemar.? VT>.. r. ROWE: a Heaklinp: - I car.not use the imrd cowarcl.- I have never seen such a Heakling iu my life, Sir, ,.lhen the :1on. ~·!inister of Tourism cannot come ir:.to this House end face the truth.

Nmv, Sir, I can prove •-!hat I have uttered to be absolutely true. I have before ~e, Sir, ~ cocunent, ~rr:!.tten by this i<~diviclual, dated Decernber 6th., yesterd~y, 1978. Eight ?Oint:> 1!!. that docu.'!lent, Sir, and I will read them to t:1c t:ouse, into the record of thi~ House. "1. Today I t·70.S CO:'ltacte.d by "2. .. rr. Rowe ': 1 ~S concerr~z.d about st3te'M.cnts :"lade ~y t!"le hen. Ja!IleS ?"organ ir .. the !Iot:Se ~resterday, December 5th., ref!ardin~ the Matte~ of Rcme' s r::!isi:-,o.: funds for the P~ovinci:!l Liberal P?.rty at a recer-.t Fisi1eries Conference.

"3. ~~r. ~ow~' s ccn~e.r:::. ~·<>.s th;.1t the !'li.nist ,r (Mor~::an) !l.Ccused :!.l.owe of "rressuri:1g~ r:tc:·.er t~1ar.. just solic.itiug for funci.s. : I. BE!cause of e ::c.rs release ma~e so:n.a days 'Lefor~ Uy t~1e Pro•.rincial (i!!cludin~ frcC ~o\.le), L mel1tio~eci that fund ra.isiag bcCy :o 357

Decz~er 7, l97~ Tape :;o. 145 ''R. F. ROw"E: ::r. Roue and a brief c:o:tversatio:t followed. The initiative for i:J.avi:J.g a discussion regardin; fuad raising ,.-as mine alone ,/1 This is in a doc:'lmlent signed by the indivi~ual. "5. :r::. '?..owe appliec! r.o pressure to me,and in fact,did not even solicit funds.'' 1':!.-d not even solicit funds. :Jhat a - ';lhere is tilat sliii:y - !:R. SPEAKE?.: Order, please! I uust pain:: .:>ut tiat i.: tl1e hon. ll'.embers sitting on tl1e same side as the han. member for Trir.ity-Bay de Verde (~!r.

I', Rowe) persist w"i.t~ that type of interjection I c-:d.ll ;;e req::::.red to get a retraction~· It is unparliamentary, Only me member is rec:o~ize<i as speaking and it is difficult to !1ear everything t:ut is saici or perh.:!ps to identi0'_from whence it comes. But I would suggest tl1at t:1ey not interject and allow the clOn. member to continue, :·il'.. F. ROWE: I repeat, ~1r. Speaker, "5. ~r. Rowe applied no pressure to me, aHd in fact, did not even solicit fuads. u6. ~ ! r. :\.owe has sho~m me a transcript of the remarks made by :Iorgan yasterday.

I cJ":aw your <:tttention to Eorgar.' s comment about having one specific: example of a cor.tp.my Co "7. Becausf. of a conversation b.otween myself and :lorgan subsequent to t ::e Fisheries Confereace about Rowe's and my discussion on fur.d raising,I must assUBe ::;.a:: I am o·.1e of the individuals re f erred to in tl e transcript. Furt~<c=ore, because :1organ called me at: home yesterday evening to see if I :1ad "oe. t :1e one indi·l'idual that lle assumes 'lill form the ''specific el:ample '' I. :1e needs to prove his allegation. " SJ::Z :iON. :JE:::BE::'..S: : 'P..

F. ?.0\·ii:: :TovJ ~ :here i s t~~~ ni!l.ister, Si r ? 358 '(

Jecem~e r 7, 1973 Tape t\o. 145 ~!R. NE.ARY: Disassociate yourself from that ~~. F. ROWE: A total and complete set and parade of .falsehoods, 1m truths, not; even ~f truths, total =truths by the Minister of Tourism, Sir 1 completely untrue. :,m_, NEARY: Is tha t: sign ed? 'rt . ! . ROWE: Tha,t letter is sianed, Sir, by ; ~ \ e individual concerned. SO~iE RON' . :~!BE1'.S: :r.aa ~, hear! :']. .

F. :illHE: Living proof, Sir, that the minister told a series of complete untruos iu this );ouse of Asse=ly. ?~ow Sir, I call upon the ?remi::!r of tb.is Provin ce or ill his abse.11ce t:he ~ !inis'::er of Justice for t::e resi gnat:ion of tile :tinister of Touris m. SO.!E 1rOX. :!E!!EE :S: Uear, ~1 e. ar! ~ . F .

OWE: Sir, ~s chis adtu:ini!::tr at ion sunk so low Sir, are they so dejected and rejected, are so afraid of members on ~is sice o i the Bouse that they 1-'ill allow one of t.'leir collaa<~ues, a :!ini ster of !!he Crmm no less, Sir, to resort co t~ lmva st fom of character assassirution, to umour r,onr.ering, to t~e tell:ii:.r of fals e hoo<!~ ir. t:.'la House of Assei!wl: 359 ...

Jecember 7, 1978 Tape 146 GU-1 !!R. F. ROli'E : in a futile attempt to discredit the Leader of the Opposition, myself and any other member over here. Sir,I know they are desperate over there but I did not think they were delirious - despicable display, Sir. HR. NEARY: Can you give us a resume of that document again? HR. F. ROWE: I will give a resume. aR. W. ROWE: Who signed it? Who signed the thing? HR. NEARY: Just drive it home. The Minister of Fisheries probably would not believe it. HR. F. ROWE: Sir, the individual who I was talking to was sick to his stomach and mind yesterday, sick to his stomach and mind.

He read this information; Sir, he has a respectable business in this Province; he is a respectable man· he is doing business, Sir, business with the government - HR. NEARY: What? HR. RIDEOUT: What was that? 11R • F • ROWE : - busines~ with·the government, and he is a sick man today, Sir; he is a worried man, a worried man but, Sir, he was so upset, so astounded by the untruths of the Minister of Tourism, and I have to hold out my hand in great respect for the gentleman. :Ie says "I cannot stomach this. I cannot accept that; it is not true.·' He said "It is a lie. It is not true. I have to deny it.

It is not true'·. And he has his business on the line now, Sir, as a result of having the courage, having the courage to speak up and support the truth when the truth needed to be supported. I respect the gentleman, Sir, and I will say to this administration that if any reprisals are taken by this administration, Mr. Speaker, that they had better not be against that firm. It had better be against the hon. - well, I will not use hon. - the Minister of Tourism - 360

December 7, 1978 Tape 146 GH-2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! HR. F. ROWE : - for having issued falsehoods in this chamber. XR. NEARY: Disassociate yourself from him. He is going to drag you all down in the gutter, down in the dirt and the slime. !1R. F.

ROWE: Sir, the saddest thing about all of this, the saddest thing, the saddest thing about all of this, Sir, is that while this administration and certain Cabinet ministers are supposed to be administering the affairs of this Province we have a certain member conducting witch hunts, making false accusations for the sole purpose of political survival and self-preservation. So, what is politics coming to in this Province with such despicable actions on the part of a Cabinet minister, a minister of the Crown, Sir?

Sir, is the administration - are hon. members opposite going to continue to tolerate such behaviour on the part of the Minister of Tourism~ Are they going to continue to assocJate themselves with him 1 a man, Sir, who will resort to the lowest form of gutter politics to try to score a few quick political brownie points? Sir, it turns my stomach; it makes me sick when I have to sit in the chamber with the same gentleman.

Sir, the Minister of Tourism is a person to whom the means,no matter how low and how dirty and how filthy, the means justify the end.· Sir, he is a menace to politics in this Province, a complete and total menace. Now, Sir, I ha~c laid the facts before this Rouse, I have caught the Minister, Sir, in a bold-faced untruth in this House of Assembly, a bold-faced series of untruths - !!R. NC:ARY : Docucented. 361. I.

December 7, 1978 Tape 146 GR -3 ~!R . F. ROI.fE : -I have doc~mented with proof, Sir - ~1R. RLDEOUT : Signed. :·!R. F. ROI·IE.: - signed - a signed statement, Sir - :1R. w. ROHE: By a per son doing business with the govrnment. HR . F. ROtH!: - by a person doing business with the g overnment, and I repeat, Sir, if there is sligh test evidence of this admi nistrati on doing any harm to that cocpany it will be hea rd loudly and clearly throughout this Province .

There is only one simple action that has to be taken, Sir, there is only one simple action that ha s to be ~akeo, t h e Premier of :his Province, Sir, has to get rid of this menace, this mena ce , and at least get rid o f some of the dirt on the other side of the House of Assembl7. Sir, it is a sad day when I have to ge t up and reveal a ;;.. ; .i ~ -;. : r. f ~ -;. 362

T;;;pc ~o. 147 ·~ . F • • 0!-;"E: t e l.:!.er of u::~truths . It is a sad day for t he peopl e of tlt:!.s ?rcv i ::ce . s:.r, .•:10 in t!le name of Eeavens i."'! t l:is Provi:1ce is soing to listen and believe one word that the ~trlster of Tourism is goi~g to issue from here o~ i.~Z Sir, I sincerely hope as a result of this discl o sure, Sir, docmnent:ed {Yroof, Signed evidence that the l!linister told a nurnl;e r o f un t ruths i :t t!.is House t!!.at t•'e will ::;~.ever a ftai~ see such despieable behaviour from any Member op~osite. r'!t. :mARY: Heat", !tear ! '1R. W. RO'IlE!

Are you go :!.:::; to t ab le ::tc le t tar? I o o.o t moH 1:: ::: ~ rill :ai.>la ::u : .:c:e ot" :>t, :U:. Spe:~kar . The :Wn. geat !.et!an '. s a orrie d man. Tile h=. gautldlllan is a 1rorried. man, :!r . Speal<C.r, a very <";..!Crrl2 d t'.au . ae ~ a -3 get o. busi:teSs to wor=Y about . I do not. ,.ri._sh to :aUle :..1e latte r , Sir. illL PECl~ FORP: : ~ . F . !lOHE: :';r,.. F. ?.OWE: You must if ,-equested. I ;,e g your pardon . I t ocs no t ha ve to t e tab ~ec. Tltat is up to t!~e Spe al:er. :ic.. .:o. I tr.et ~li t l G e Spe a \ er and gave :1.11:1 the cou:ttesy of s eeing thi><.

I do not have to table t~is, : :r . Spe aker . Tl~ e 1on . gen tlemal! ~milts tne to table it. Or der, ;> lease! I canr:c t ' e e l wi t - : 1 ypo~ h etic..al - Peopl e a re ~gs ing t :te q ~;e s cio a . 1 :' ~ :. e y ;: ut a quest i on t!\E y ilave on t heir minds specifically for a ruling, I r~c . I o :mt '·l=t: co t aole c!!i s. ~ : !" . £pe ake r, i f my b.c n . f r iend ;;:ill ::olio\~ Th i s i" p r i.v ilczuc! i.~.:ornatio::~ Yo~;r nonour, and t ~le r!! fo re we :io n ? ~ :1cave to . ~e ~o ~. ~ti s~ e~ nf Jus cica . 363

~ecemb~r 7, 1978 T.2pe :-:o. 147 ~rf - 2 : ~ . . iiiC!C.!A.~.~: ~Iy poL.,t, I do suQw.i t, ~~r. Speaker, ::i~ere is !:.O such thing as ;_:>rivileg~d i>lformatiou. It is only t:1e :'rivilege of ~~e liouse, and I CII!l sure that Your Honour has ruled on several occaSions that if an non. =ber of this llC'u.::;e. reads t 1 =rom a letter or publication he must, if re~ueste~ so to co by an :1on. member, table it.

T:'lat is the rule and I can recall being victimized by that 1vhen I sat opposite one time when I reaC: - I '~as :10t even reading a letter, I ~~as reading from a =sazine, and victimized is not the •·1ordJ but: that is the rule. :!}!.. SPEAKER: Ti~e hon. LeaC.er of the Opposition. ~'!t. ',1. ROWE: Hr.

Speaker, I 1~ ould sulJI!Iit, Sir, that in the circumstax:.ces of this c.'lse, as my hon. colleague h<ls s10iC:, is a gentl~man who is so concerned that the truth be told he uould uot :!lind appendi:ilg his name to a docucent, completely zivi:ctt; the lie to something said by the Xinister of Tourism, but , Sir, he is worried. He is doing busic.ess with b~e government. He has a CODpany I.Yhich is doing busir•ess publicly and he does not 11ant his name, necessarily. to be bandied about. :·!?..

NEll.RY: Hear, :~ear! :low my hon. colleague was forced to ;_:>rotect 01is own integrity and honour by reading ti1e substance of it, Sir, but I 1muld say th<lt ·•e are not under any o!:lligation :~ere, u:1der the rules of the Souse, to table that ;>articular document, nor should •..:re. SOl-IE F!ON. :-':E::BERS : Hear, hear! .. ~~... SPEA...~R: The '1on. memil er for Kilbric!~ . ~1L HI:LLS: To that point of order, :-'-r. Speakar. I mea~,I have lJ.O ~rish to bring ar:.y emba-r-r;J.ssmer.t on anybody but <J.t tl'~ same ti= tl'e :,:1ve been through this in t:~is Eouse rr.any, ::tany ti;nes and not only ilat.

Your Honour ruled that putlic documents, but ~rivate d.ocum~!lts, any c!ocumer .. t r.:...:!:.:;rred to by a member muse be tabled. Xo_l·:r, if it is goiug to be sauce for the goose it :,as to be sauce for t:1e [;3nder . I ·io :1ot t~1in!~ ti.;.ere is any doubt aU out the ot.li.:;~t!on .- 364

Dec~mber 7, 1973 ~~- HELLS: "R. NEARY: ~!R.. SPEAKER: Tape No. 2J7 ~~f - 3 on the Chair. To that point of order, ~cr. Speaker, I will hear the han. !:\e:::ber and then I \.rill be r:·repared to give :11y decision. '!R. NEARY: ~fr. Spea~er, fie ~1on. 3en tleman '"...rho just took his seat, Sir, who spoke on t~is point of order, on ~umerous occasions in t'tl.is House has given u.:; a lecture on both sides of this House, but nainly directed to this side. that nenes ~ust not be bandied around this Rouse of innocent people ~"'!d ~e have agreed ~nth the han. gentleman. Fe have agreeC..

Nmr the hon. gentlerr,an is asking my colleague to breac!1 a confidence and a :?rivile~e, to table a docll!!lent ~nth a nB!'!e on it so ttat the n~.e can be bandied about, so that there can be repercussions :>.gain<;t the han. ~entle."lan. For instance,~•ill my han. friend guarantee the person T _·~o signed this Order, ph,ase.! - if tile docu~ent :_:3 tabled, ·that there wi:.l be ;::c recriu.inations. · Order, please!. ..Crder., pl2ase!

I can only hear ~rief submissions relevant to the point uecause t~era is a specific point of order tefore the Cl-.air. vie submit, Your Honour, that t:1is is a :;>rivileged tlocwaent that r~eli!bers of the ;10use do :1ave special privileges and ti1at my ho;J., friend gave an undert.o.king, as I understanC: it: I ::hought that ia what I hearcl l:im say, at least that is t:::.: iopression I get, and the underst~1di~g is that t~e cont~nt of t:.,e C.ocume~·.t would be read and my o1on. friend is prepared to put t;~at on t!le table of the House and just i:>lan:~ out t.'le signature.

Ai•<'- I ~l~ir~.~.: that members should ,qcrT"PP tn ~~~t. '!'!1 .... ,. --:J....,,, .-1 l-ta ti1e p:-oc:ec!:.J.re is to te followed. :'lt. l~RSI:J..LL: ·~r. Speaker. :~. SPEAKER: I had i::J.dicated t:1.1.: I ·w:.1l:i :,e prepared to give 2. dedsion after the fc=er spea::er anci I t:linl< :1a"ing 5ai-l that 365

:::!eceruber 7, 197o Cli - 1 l:R. SPE~R: I should leave it at taat. Actually, the precedents in our House are quite clear; when en hon. !lleOOer reads from a <.locument the iiouse l1as a right to ~e put in possession of th.e.t ciocument whic>i,in fact~means tablingiu;.it. Last year til<:re were a nuruber of instances •~here an non. ~er.

I am not speaking about UJ.histers tabling official documents, where an ilon. member quoted from documents and -we aau quite a uumber of theD tabled. /Certainly the .,Jrececlents and rule in tlus House, accordiag to our procedures,is cle~r and t~at is that the Datter, now t:1.1at it il.as been rai~ed, must oe answered in the affirmative aud that is tilat our precedents require the tabling of auy- tiLinG that is reau from by a l'rivate !!!ember. X ::1\.. F . RO\i'E: Hr.

Sf>eaker, it io with a [.reat deal of sadness t.i:lat I ma forced by tour aonor - not forced L>y Your Honor, I abide byJour Honor's ruling - but I aJll forced,3ir, by hen. me~Lilers opposite to have to disclose the signature and tue name of a person, a respectful person, who is r~ning a respectable company, to have i1is name tab led before ;;il:.s liousa because l1e a.e.ci the courage to put in writinlil b1e trut:1, which •ras a comtJlete con- tradiction to •;hat a t:inister of the Crov.'Il. .had uttered in tilis iiouse of Asserubly.

Sir, a person whose firm is doing i>usiness witi1 this administration, a lef;itimate business -nothing 1-1rong with t:,e business i1e is doing with this administration. Sir, I call on ;,on. melcilers opposite and the administration in particular, to c·:>ntiuue to do business •-lith this particular firm, do not cut therr. off. Jo 710t cut tL.ew. off) Sir! Th·7:re is only o:t£ per:.:iou. H~;.o cleserves to ~e cut off in this province as a result of all this and that b ti'1e Ilon.

U.1~ister of Touri:m. (Hr. ~:organ) t.;ho raised tte i:>:oue in tl:e fi.rst J,>lace - a series of falsenoods, untrut~1s, Anci I comrnenC:, 3ir, in sacl:.:ess, ti>e courage of the gentl:;mnn ,,lio providecl ·;::e ,.,ith the info=aticn ti1at enabled me to 1'rove t~1at tile minister- if he said it outsiC:e of the douse it waul.:. i:>e a lie, if he said it out- side of the rtouse it '.lOuld be :o la.~derous 0 usi!J.g t:1e imr:.unity of til<: 366

bace~~er 7, 1975 ape •~ o. l4S Crl - 2 HR • F • RO\t> : an abuse of tilis douse . S.!.r, I reeretfull y t&>le the doctment. Order please: I must inic.n:; all t::et • ers \·lhat aatters are to l.le <ieba ted at five th;ircy. Firsc matter · notice ~iven by the ;ton . r.recber for La?oile (~:r. ear:~) arising from a quest ion asl<ed of the ~: on. Hinister of .!'~,;Stice (!:r. Hickman). Subje ct mat ter: Whetl:er there f~ill or •:-ill not oe ::eduction io t 'te Provi:l.cial Soci::l Assistan ce Pro:;r.:ll!l as a result of adjustl!:ent:.s in · e 'Family Allowance ?rogram .

Second r.~ac:ter~ :-.o::ice g:!.ven i>y tile on. t.et:lber of Eagle :liver Orr. Straci .an) arisi::.; fro.: a CiUE:St.iou as!...e the .10n . 1-::inis ter of Trnn.s.,ortu.c:iot.. ::r . ;.i::l:!) . 1'".:"' Gu· jec.t watter: IJ.le&e.ci lack of vro tection tc 'l:e:osels :l.n t.:.e Lai>rc:cor Coast, es ecially during. the r.:ontl to of ,'ovemiler and i:lece:miler. TI.u C: :::acter : ~ otice given oy the ilon. r.:em!Jer fo r St . ~o r ge 's (Mrs. Mcisaac) ' .uis~ from a que stion asked the o10n . ·· ~ister of ~i uniciple l..f~airs (~!r . i'indsor) •·•ith respect tc· the St . Geor;;e 's S::ad:.um ?roject .

The hon. member. ::r. Sf.eaker, 'tuescay, S.Lr, ;;as one of t! e :;adcec · oiays tltat 1 ave experience ~ :Gi tile ' !l.oase of ."•.ssCl!Wly. Si t:, it is 367 ;

December 7, 1978 Tape 149 GH-1 MR. F. ROHE: one of the saddest days, not only because the personal life of the Leader of the Opposition was questioned by innuendo, suspicious questions were asked without any. answers or proof by the l·iinister, not only because my actions, my honour and my integrity are questioned and accusations were levelled at me without one atom, one atom or molecule of proof, but more importantly, Sir, the decorum of the House was lowered last Tuesday, was plunged to the lowest level in the history of this House of Assembly, Sir.

The very person who complains inside and outside of this House about the poor behaviour of hon. members, the negativity of certain members, was the very person, the very person who lowered the dignity of this House and was caught in a bold-faced untruth, series of untruths. Sir, the hen. Minister of Justice, the Acting Premier,and I would ask him to pay attention, has no choice but to demand the resignation of the Minister of Tourism becaus~ I repeat? he is a total menace to politics in this Province and I "hope as a re~u±t of his resignation that things may return to normal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. NR.

SPEAKER: Hen. Minister of Fisheries. HR. H. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I want first of all to offer my very sincere congratulations to the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply, my hen. friends from the district of Kilbride and, of course, from Grand Falls. Both hen. members made, I think, excellent speeches in both content and in delivery - two very, very fine speeches. Mr. Speaker, I want to spend a few minutes talking about something that is, I am sure, very important and topical to most members in this House, certainly to most Newfoundlanders, and that is the matter 368 ;.

December 7, 1978 Tape 149 GH-2 :-!R. H. CARTER: of our fishery development plan as announced by me some days ago at which time we outlined our plan for the future development of what, I am sure, is Newfoundlan~'s most important resource, certainly one of our most important resources, in that of the fishing industry. As hon. members know, we did have a conference in the city on September 13 and 14 attended by a large number of fishermen from around the Province, fishplant operators and other people with an interest in the fishing industry. The purpose of the conference, Mr.

Speaker, was to.give us an opportunity to brief the fishermen especially, and others in attendance, on our plans to develop the fishery over the next six years until 1985. The delegates, all fishermen, were selected by the various fisheries committees around the Province, very democratically selected by committees that were elected by the fishermen themselves. Of course, in the Province, as most members know, we do have a large number of fisher- men's committees • In fact, I believe.a-round probably 120 such committees.

When we first conceived the thought about having the conference, one of the problems, of course, confronting us was how Jo we select delegates to attend the conference, delegates that would be representative of the various sectors of the fishing industry and repre- sentative of the various regions in the Province where fishery, of course, the fisheries play an important parti The most logical and the most democratic, I think, was the way adopted by my officials and that was to ask the various fisheries committees, committees of fishermen, to select by one means or another delegates from their respective areas to visit our fisheries conference and to represent them. 369 l 1 i.

I.

Dece~:~ber 7, 1978 Tape 149 G-H.-3 .rR. ~. CARTER: The conference was made up of workshops attended by fishermen only and, of co~rse, I think there was a very good reason for that. I view the fishermen as pro babl y having the greatest interest in the fishery and co·nsequently I considered it my duty to inforr.~ them first of our plans and to give them a chance to study our var io us proposals and documents pertaining to our fishery development plan and to get their views on it.

The suggestion was made during the conference that maybe ..: the fishermen were asked to come to the city to rubberstamp ·- a development plan and t hat t hey were not given sufficient t ime to have an input into t he formulation of our policy. Well, ~r. Speaker, my rebuttal to that is quite simple in that during the past two and a half or three years we ha ve ;... ; ~ ";. : ~ . ~ ~

Daca~er 7, 1978 Tape ~ro. 150 :':R. H. CARTI:J.: travE~led the entire Province, held numerous meetings with the fishermen, fish plant workers, com:nuni.ty leaders, at which time :1e listened and I hot~e 1ea=ed frow tl-.a fisherll!en as to -,;hat they wanted, as to what t~eir vie"t-rs were with respect to the future development of their indus try. Sc the seminar that we held a fe~v days ago, we.:l ~m ~;overnber 13th., ~vas, in fact, a 1-1ind-up of numerous ~eetings a..'l.d other "'-eans of consultation ~~ltl::. our fishermen oYar t:1a past t~ree year~.

So I think most people 1v.ill have to agree =!1at the time for talking has long passed in terms of fishery development and now,of course,the time is here for action, and t~at is, of course, what we intend to do in the months ahead with respect to fishery development. The confere!!ce, Er.

Spaaker, toucheJ. on a r,UT"_;;,er of very important items, having to do with the ti·70 very comprehensive reports commissioned by t~e Department of Fisheries, the Provincial GoveL'~nt, one,of course 7 :1aving to ~o ··rith t:1e ::.allog3 Report, the report into t!l.e feasibility of establisirlng a central, or at least a prima~; landing and.distrioution rort and, of course, the second study !laving to do "t":rith regional developnent of our fis:1eries around the Provi.,.ce.

The second study "'as conducted by people •rithin !:he Provincial Public Service, within tl1e Provincial Clepartl'le:::.t of Fisheries ar..d ethers that 1-1ere seconded to the study by us some - 1vell ali:IOs t D.1o years ago . The Kellogg ?..e;>ort, :rr. Speub:r, ccalt mainly •d.th t:1e raattE r of establ i.shing a prirr.ary landine c>.nd distribution >.. port. Als~, it dealt with the problem of the seasonal fi:>:~ plants.

It ... addressed itself to the proble!!l of findin11: 1vays e.r.ci means of providing ~ a continuity of supply of raw :naterial tr> the large nunber of fish plants t:-:at by virtue of the fact th.a.t they are depe n di'"-?: almost ':. : er,tirely for t:leir supply of ra'·' Material on t:1e ins:-,ore fi.3'1ery, t:lQSe :;la:1ts ar·= forced to close their doors 2-nd to ? :y off t~eir '" -:.:rori::ers 011Ce. t::c inshore fis~cry terni~J..te:s for the year. T:"lat, :: " 371.

Dcca~er 7, L978 Tape :-!o . 5 ~ !lH- 2 '!R. ~-. CAP.TE!t: concern ~rl as a g ove~ • ect :t is a~ :lu."'';,er of f is!"t pla.."lts . I :t fact, there a re 145 altoget±e:r e.•d al-ou t 130 of these are seasonal operatior:s . A l.: r ~ e nuob er of ~!J.e se .as o:~. al operations do have ::be capabilit:r of operati::l g on a yea r- roun d asis but for one very ioportant fact, of course 1 th a t being c:::e r.~a ct e r of getting sufficient r m,, l:'.:::terial co kee'l the ~lants operating for p~riod beyond the no=.a.l in s~\ore f ishin g season . An. operatio n , .1r.

Sr>eaker , =~ ~us:!.ne ss, tmcther tt :!.s a service station, !!'!"Ocecy stor e, <!r.1g store, or anythi:1g else, t~t operates at only thi rty-five or for t '!' ~e r cent of i t<- tr'.le op.e_r:!.til::.g cspa d.ty can:1ot reall y )e ecor.o!llcall y viable, nor car. i:: mO:.:e ::~ ;,;i nu of co;~ :: riuu :: io• ~~2.t i: sboulj an~ 1 i .. f c.ct, co u! cl · • ~ .. !~ :o t.. e cout!ilUi.ti cie.s i::. d\i.:::. .:· .~ y aze o::~::ati:::.E a;~ 1:::. c: e Pro vince, of course , in which they are orer~in~ .

And tl':.::t i s •;l:y w-e vie\~ t \ e illi.ttcr cf scosc:::.:-J.il:}· ir. terms of fish ?lan t operations as one of tl-.e ol:s tacle s t ha t l."e ::us t overco me and over cone ... ·cry s : ortl y if u&. O::re goin g ;:o :!llm·: these pl=t s, or enable these plants to rElllili.'l viable <.nci to be ahle to c~mpe te successfully sgei~st f. 372 ---- -,:

December 7, 1978 Tape 151 GH-1 :IR. W. CARTER: countries that have, in fact, overcome that problem. I remember some months ago having a discussion with the Vice-President of the Nordsee operation in Germany. We were talking about the Newfoundland situation, the lack of productivity, or at least the seasonality of our fish?lants, and that gentleman informed me that any fish plant owned by their company that was not operating for 80 per ~ent of its capacity would be closed; they would not consider it feasible to continue to operate a fish plant that had less than 80 per cent operating time.

And when I told him in our Province in many respects, in many cases, in fact, in the large majority of cases, that our fish plants were only operating at about 35 per cent of their capacity he was flabbergasted to say the least, and expressed the view that these plants could not possibly be as economically viable as they should be nor could they make any meaningful contribution to the Province or to the people that work in them. So, Mr. Speaker, the matter of the primary landing and distributiorr port will by ~~d large,we think, help overcome that very serious problem.

We announced at the fisheries conference our intention to establish by January 1, 1979, a provincial crown corporation. This corporation will be responsible for the acquisition by one means or another of fishing vessels, maybe by way of charter, by way of purchase, or by way of construction, of fishing vessels that would be able to prosecute the offshore fishery and, of course, in so doing maybe displace for~ign ships that still frequent the waters within our 200-mile limit.

The mandate of the Crown corporation will be to administer the primary landing port,to assume responsibility for the distribution of fish .. 373

December 7, 1978 Tape 151 GH-2 :IR. ,.T. CARTER: to fish plants after the seasonal fishery ceases in the Fall of the year and to generally administer, like I said, the affairs of the primary landing port and to obtain additional supplies of raw material to our otherwise seasonal fish plants. We believe, Mr. Speaker, that this concept will work.

In fact, we know it will work , and the study to which I referred a moment, the Kellogg report, backs up that proposition, that the matter of landing fish by deepsea vessels, holding it in storage in the primary landing port for later distribution to our seasonal plants is, in fact, feasible and can work. These vessels, Hr.

Speaker - I am not suggesting, Sir, for a moment that the Xewfoundland Government through its Crown agency will immediately launch a program, of; a massive buildinq program of ships, these ships will be chartered; in fact, may be in some cases chartered for short periods from existing companies - Canadian companies, where t~air ships might have some down-time during certain times ofthe year, but nevertheless the ships are available; charters are available : we have established tha~ . fact, ships that are capable of penetrating the ice-infested northern waters and again capable of fishing at a time of the year when most of our ~ewfoundland trawlers would not be able to go in the northern areas where the fish congregate.

Xr. Speaker, there are some very important and exciting things happening in the fishing industry in this Province, and I think the prospects are ;.._ ' indeed bright for the people involved in our fishing industry. I am happy in the aense that I believe now that our Province iF .... has taken the lead in Atlantic Canada in terms of fishery development and in terms of gearing up for the regenerated .g -:. fish stocks that,according to the scientists, will be increased & r by more than 350 per cent by 1985. I g et some pride in the 374

December 7, 1978 Tape 151 GH-3 :rJ.. ,; . CARTER: knowledge that other rrovinces in Atlantic Canada are looking upon our fisheries development plan as being a very forward plan and, of course, 375 ' . l ; : I.

Dec2llWer 7, l97S Tape Xo. 152 :;;-t - 1 !i!t. ~~. C.~:\.I:.TER: I an told too that tl1ay look upou it '•lit~ sowe envy. The fact of the !!latter is, :·rr.

Speaker, t l!at if the ~iewfoundland fishing industry, tile Ne!foundla::~.d gover=ent, the private sector combined 1 C:o uot start now to plau for the future, to plan for the time lrhen our fish stocks will be regeneratcJ., c:1at "ire are going to lose the right to those stacks. ~?e all :mo~r t:1at the te=s a..'l.d conditions tmder which Canada unilaterally declared. t:1e 200 ::~ile limt, ~mile it gives the coastal state Can.::;ca first crack at that resource, that is the f.isheries resource, it also provides that any surplus, any fish th.2.~ i.s surplus to our o~r.::