Manitoba Hansard — 14 December 1982 (Sitting 9B, 32nd Legislature, 2nd Session)

32-2-9b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. 98 - 8:00 p.m., TUESDAY, 14 DECEMBER, 1982. Printed '>y the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba

MANI TOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name ADAM, Hon. A.A. (Pete) ANSTETT, Andy ASHTON, Steve BANMAN, Robert (Bob) BLAKE, David R� {Dave) BROWN, Arnold BUCKLASCHUK, John M. CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. CORRIN, Brian COWAN, Hon. Jay DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent DODICK, Doreen DOERN, Russell DOLIN, Mary Beth DOWNEY, James E. DRIEDGER, Albert ENNS, Harry EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. EYLER, Phil FILMON, Gary FOX, Peter GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) GRAHAM, Harry HAMMOND, Gerrie HARAPIAK, Harry M. HARPER, Elijah HEMPHILL, Hon. Maureen HYDE, Lloyd JOHNSTON, J.

Frank KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene KOVNATS, Abe LECUYER, Gerard LYON, O.C., Hon. Sterling MACKLING, O.C., Hon. Al MALINOWSKI, Donald M. MANNESS, Clayton McKENZIE, J. Wally MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) NORDMAN, Rurik {Ric) OLESON, Charlotte ORCHARD, Donald PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland PHILLIPS; Myrna A. PLOHMAN, John RANSOM, A. Brian SANTOS, Conrad SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic SCOTT, Don SHERMAN, L.R. {Bud) SMITH, Hon. Muriel STEEN, W@rren STORIE, Jerry T. URUSKI, Hon. Bill USKIW, Hon. Samuel WALDING, Hon. D. James Constituency Ste.

Rose Springfield Thompson La Verendrye Minnedosa Rhineland Gimli Brandon West Ell ice Churchill St. Boniface Riel Elmwood Kildonan Arthur Emerson Lakeside Brandon East River East Tuxedo Concordia Swan River Virden Kirkfield Park The Pas Rupertsl and Logan Portage la Prairie Sturgeon Creek Seven Oaks Niakwa Radisson Charleswood St. James St. Johns Morris Roblin-Russell St. Norbert • Assiniboia Gladstone Pembina Selkirk Transcona Fort Rouge Wolseley Dauphin Turtle Mountain Burrows Rossmere lnkster Fort Garry Osborne River Heights Flin Flon Interlake Lac du Bonnet St.

Vital Party NOP NOP NOP PC PC PC NOP IND NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP PC NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP NOP PC PC NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP PC PC PC PC PC PC NDP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC NOP NOP NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP NOP NOP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 Time - 8:00 p.m. THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Riel, the Hon ourable Member for La Verendrye has 15 minutes remaining. MR. B. BAN MAN: Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

Before the adjournment for the supper hour I was in the midst of pointing out to the Legislature some of the problems or difficulties that members opposite face when they're dealing with certain items that they have brought for ward in the Legislature, and then later on the realities of their deeds come aboutto the point where they start refuting what they originally set out to say.

In this particular instance, it was the Minister of Finance, who in tabling the documents for the 1.5 percent payroll tax, indicated at that time that the money was going for health and post-secondary edu cation excl usively; and then later on when some diffi culties arrived with that tax, he is quoted as saying that not one single penny of this tax can be traced to those two particular functions.

Part of the problem that we've faced in this Legisla ture over the last while is the credibility of members opposite and the reason I say that is that it has been pointed out time and time again by speakers before me on this side of the House that the promises made by members opposite during the campaign to turn this economy around, to ensure that people would not lose their houses, to ensure that bankruptcies would not take place in small business, that farmers would not lose their farmlands, is something that they just have not been able to live up to and I know the people out there are going to judge them upon that.

I guess one of the things that one finds out very quickly in this business is that we are all subject to believing something, if it is repeated often enough. I think one of the things that they really got trapped on, and they're going to have a lot of difficulty with over the next little while, is the difficulty they got them selves into with regards to Limestone. They were pressing for the resumption and the construction of Limestone. At first they started off, back in 1977-78, blaming the previous Conservative Government for stopping con struction on that particular project.

It was then it pointed out and it was admitted by members opposite, that indeed, it was in the dying moments of the '77 election that their board, with their approval, sus pended the construction at Limestone. However, that did not stop the First Minister, when he was elected leader of the party, to say in response to questions from reporters that he "called on the Lyon Government to proceed immediately with Hydro's northern develo pment. The two-year delay in the con struction of Limestone has already cost an additional $250 million to the people of Manitoba." That's back in '79.

Then in 1981, the Member for Ste. Rose, for exam ple, and I believe this appeared in many of the other papers, mentioned in his little MLA Report that he puts out in his local paper, that "overall economic devel opment growth and energy savings would have been aided if orderly development of hydro was not can celled in 1978." In 1981, Mr. Speaker, the NDP caucus, under the signature of the now Premier of the province, said the very same thing the Member for Ste.

Rose said in his article, and this is dated February 4th, 1981, that "overall growth and energy savings would have been aided if orderly development of Hydro was not can celled in 1978." We have heard - and this is as late as 1981 after, in this Legislature, having admitted that it was their board and their government that halted con struction of Limestone because it wasn't economi cally feasible. So, Mr.

Speaker, one wonders why they persist and why they persisted, during the election campaign, saying that the resumption of Limestone should have started immediately and here we are a year later and nothing has happened. Mr. Speaker, the one thing the Throne Speech allows is members of the Legislature to deal with a document itself, and also deal with some concerns and some issues that constituents have raised over the last number of months.

One of the issues that I'd like to deal with is the problem, which I guess at this time of year - unfortu nately at this time of year - receives a lot of public attention and that is the problem of the drinking driver. Mr. Speaker, many of my constituents are peo ple who are concerned about this. They are con cerned about the right of police officers in this prov ince to stop people who are suspected of being intoxicated.while driving. I guess one of the most high profile things that is happening right now is the ALERT operation, which is taking place in Winnipeg and a number of the other areas.

What concerns me, and I guess concerns a lot of constituents of mine, is the so-called provisions under the new Charter of Rights, which a number of the legal people and a number of the people in the judiciary are using, I would say, as a means to a large extent, trying · to thwart the police officers in their duty of trying to apprehend people who are driving while intoxicated. 237 I listened, with interest, to some of the remarks of the Attorney-Gener al with regards to the legality as far as the new Charter of Rights was concerned with regards to drinking drivers.

He indicated that there was some que stion whether or not the police had the authority to stop somebody without legitimate cause, and then proceed in going ahead and asking that person to comply with the police wishes - in other words blowing into the ALERT system. I heard the gentleman that represents the Criminal Lawyers or Trial Lawyers' Association - I think Mr. Brodsky, or something - mentioned that nobody should take the test unless they consult with their lawyers first. Mr.

Speaker, I am concerned not about the person that is intoxicated when he or she is driving - I shouldn't say I'm not concerned, I am concerned about them. My constituents have more of a concern about the people that are driving on the same highway and driving on the same road with their families and

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 their loved ones, when this particular person is allowed to drive on that particular highway. I believe. and it is the feeling of the majority of my constitu ents. that every avenue, every possible recourse should be taken to ensure that someone who is intoxicated and is driving a motor vehicle on one of our highways, every precaution should be taken to apprehend that individual and get that individual off the road. Mr.

Speaker, I, and again speaking for my consti tuency, feel that if we are going to use our Charter of Rights the way it has been indicated now that it should be used, in other words to try and thwart the efforts of the authorities to deal with this bad problem, I think then the belief that I have in what the Charter of Rights should be doing for Canadians is not what I had hoped it would be. Because if it is simp ly a mechanism, if people are simply going to use the Charter of Rights as a mechanism to try and thwart and defeat the law the way the majority of people want it to be, then I believe it is wrong.

And I hope that the Attorney Gene ral of this province will not allow the type of frivolous action and frivolous objections to occur with regards to an important and serious matter as I have just mentioned here today. Mr. Speaker, I would like to relate a case which was reported in the local paper in Steinbach where a gen tleman was apprehended at a .18 breathalyzer count, which means that he was seriously impaired.

The question whether or not that individual had been treated fairly under the Charter of Rights was raised by the judge at that particular time, as reported in the paper, and the question of whether the police had the authority to stop that individual, whether they had the right to stop even though they might have had a suspi cion that particular individual was impaired, was questioned by not only the counsel for the accused but also by the judge presiding.

I think if that's the type of thing that we are going to get into, to try and thwart the efforts of our law enforcement officers, then I want to say to all members opposite, that is not what I believe the Charter was intended for and it is not what my constituents want to see happen with regards to the people that are caught on the highways or are suspected of being intoxicated while driving. Mr.

Speaker. in closing, with regards to the Throne Speech Debate, I want to say to members opposite that it might be an old worn phrase, but one which I have been, maybe if you want to say, drawn to closer and closer is the one that economic freedom means personal freedom.

And when what we've seen happen in the last number of years on the federal scene with Crown corporations, when we've seen what happens when bureaucrats become involved in operating, when we see what's happened with a number of the other government agencies that run the affairs of government, one realizes very quickly that when you allow people who are not responsible generally to the public in any positions of authority, that becomes very dangerous.

One of the things that the people in my area feel very strongl y about is that they would rather control their own destiny than have the government tell them what direction to go. My people do not feel that they want to be beholden to government for everything that happens. I want to say to members opposite the peo- 238 pie in my area believe in that principle very strongly.

I intend, during my stay in this Legislatur e. to bring that feeling to bear on members opposite and I want to say to the First Minister and to the Members of the Treas ury Bench that it's people like this, people who are willing and dedicated to work ing to make this Prov ince of Manitoba a better place to live in that will ultimately be able to bring this province around to a situation where, hopefully, there is something left after the members opposite have served their three years in government. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, let me first associate myself with the congratulations that were delivered to you one week ago by the Leader of the Op position. I know all members agree with the Leader of the Oppo sition in rejoicing to see you restored to full health. You occupy a difficult position, yet it may be true that a Speaker is not only doing his or her job well, if at various times both sides of the House feel they've lost some advantage due to the Speaker's Ruling.

I want to express my confidence that you will con tinue to govern the procedures of this House, this Chamber. in an impartial manner that has been evi dent to all observers. I also congratulate the new Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairpersons of Comm ittees of the Whole House; like my friends and the Leader of the Op posi tion, I wish them well. I know that both are conscien tious members of this Assembly and by coincidence both are men who chose Canada as their home.

In a province that was built so much by those who came here from other countries, it is both unique and fitting that these two new officers of this Chamber, are indeed, new Canadians. The Mover and the Seconder of the Address in reply to Her Honour also deserve congratulations. As their speeches indicate, the members represent consti tuencies that are quite different, widely different; and yet, Mr. Speaker, their deliveries, the presentation of their material during their moving and seconding of the Address in reply to the Throne Speech indeed commend themselves well to the service of Manito bans.

Their concern, their commitment, was well demonstrated in their community indeed, and their presentation brings distinction to this Chamber and they commenced the debate very well indeed. Mr. Speaker, in my contribution to this debate, I wish to discuss several topics this evening.

First, is the need to keep developing programs that tackle the crisis of unemployment; (2) the present state of the Manitoba economy, as it compares to other provin ces; (3) the progress that has been achieved in imple menting commitments which were made to Manito bans during the provincial election campaign; and ( 4) the policies that will continue to guide this Govern ment in the years that lie ahead, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker , it is customary for the Premier to spend a great deal of time rebutting the arguments of the Opposition at this particular point in the Throne Speech Debate.

I listened carefully to the speech by the Leader of the Opposition the other day and I've listened to most of the speeches by the members of the Opposition and, Mr. Speaker, there appears at this

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 stage to be little need for rebuttal. Indeed, upon read ing the speech by honourable friends opposite - in particular, the speech by the Leader of the Opposition - I could not help, Mr. Speaker, but feel sorry for him. After all, the Leader of the Opposition is evidently and justifiably proud of the fact that he has served for some 24 years; 24 years since he was elected to this Chamber - a long record of service. The Leader of the Opposition has served as the First Minister of this province for some four years, and it was only a few months ago, Mr.

Speaker, that he was admitted as a Privy Councillor and received the very unique honour of entry into the Privy Council. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, now that he has announced his stepping down from the leadership of his party, he had a splendid opportunity to demonstrat.e a states manlike quality. He had a beautiful opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to indeed reflect upon the state of Manitoba and to provide some cool-headed analysis of the future of our province as it pertains to the children, the children's children of those presently in the Province of Manitoba, and yet, Mr. Speaker, he threw that opportunity away.

He continued to display, unfortu nately, that kind of mean and vicious style that the Leader of the Opposition has become accustomed to do. Mr. Speaker, it's been unfortunate, if not for Man itobans, it's been unfortunate for his particu lar party, the Conservative Party of Manitoba, that he has con ducted himself in this way. Because, Mr. Speaker, our nation is in the midst of the worst economic crisis in some 40 years. It is a time, Mr.

Speaker, when we in Government realize full well the importance of being open to ideas, new thoughts, new proposals, in an effort to do all that is possible at this particular time in order to assist Manitobans to move through this diffi cult time. Yet, what do we have. Mr. Speaker? What do we have from the Opposition? We have an inconsistent three-headed approach during this Debate. The Leader of the Opposition proposed that we impose acute protracted restraint as he indicated had been initiated back in 1978, a program which proved to be so disas trous, Mr. Speaker, during prosperous times.

On Information Radio last Wednesday afternoon the Leader of the Opposition stated that we should follo w the example that he set in 1978, an example which would mean cutting about $500 milli on of spending in the fiscal year. which we are approaching. Mr. Speaker, in October of this year. the Deputy Leader of the Opposition in this Chamber went one step further.

He proposed that the province should not borrow as much as one cent this year, "regard less," said the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, "the pur pose of that borrowing." This would mean not just massive cuts proposed by his leader, but would involve cancellation of the Afforda ble New Mortgage program, sharply reduced loans for farmers, major cuts in construction in Hydro, in the Telephone Sys tem, and in the Crown corporations. Then, Mr. Speaker, shortly after the Session com menced what do we have?

We have the Finance critic of the Opposition pop up in this Chamber with a demand that we reduce revenue by $70 million. So, as far as I know, Mr. Speaker- and I may be mistaken and the Finance critic might be able to correct me in this respect - he didn't propose any new tax in order to replace this lost revenue although, he would n't acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that he was calling for a larger deficit. Mr. Speaker, I ask this evening whether the Leader of the Opposition. whether the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, whether the Finance critic in the Opposi tion party are truly serious about these proposals? Mr.

Speaker, one further interesting observation is the lack of support across the way from the colleagues of the three front bench members for the proposals. Mr. Speaker, their colleagues continue to call for more spending, more capital spending and no increase in taxes or fees. Another indication is the list of $500 million in cuts that the present leader would make; the strong argu ment against any further capital expenditure in spend ing which we've been hearing from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition and the case for larger deficits as made by the next leader. Just where, Mr.

Speaker, are these brave new plans? Mr. Speaker. do these people have the courage of their conviction or are they leaders that know full well that if the Con servative supporters in this province, many very fine people. Mr. Speaker, heard about the economic proposals that are being made from across the way, would those Conservative supporters rise up in anger and throw out their leadership? I can only conclude, Mr.

Speaker, that the Conser vative leadership is ashamed of specific suggestions that they had made and I am going to leave it to the people of the Province of Manitoba to consider and to reject these three sill y, incons istent pie ces of proposals. And what of other members across the way, Mr. Speaker? Frankly , I had expected. Mr. Speaker, dur ing these difficult and trying economic circumstances that is touc,hing every community in Canada that we would hear from an Opposition bipartisan sugges tions for economic action; at least an Opposition, Mr.

Speaker, that would have focused its attention on the economic problems confronting Manitoba. At least I would have expected that from our Opposition. Instead, Mr. Speaker. what do we have? We have the Member for La Verendrye who an nounced from the Conservative benches that they had · gone on a little fishing expedition. That particular member first went fishing after inter ference in McKenzie Seeds that didn't even exist. Then he went fishing after assurances that he indicated had been given to the Festival du Voyageur, which assurances had never even been given. 239 Then, Mr.

Speaker, the Member for Fort Garry had tried to tie this entire House up in his quest for infor mation about a study which doesn't exist and, indeed, may never exist. Mr. Speaker. The Member for Tuxedo, on the other hand. stood up in this House and demanded immediate release of environmental reports that were released to the public weeks, indeed, months ago. Mr. Speaker. I think that these members would do themsel ves a favour if they simply hung a "Gone Fishing" sign on their caucus room door and left. Their performance has been little short of -(I nterjection)- Mr.

Speaker, their perfor mance has been incredible and, unfortunately, their performance brings little credit to this House. If all they wanted to do was to throw mud. I would have

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 expected them to at least have waited to see if there was any mud to throw. But, Mr. Speaker, what we do know and what Manitobans know is that the Opposi tion party in this Chamber is no longer dealing with matters that are important to the agenda of Manito bans as a whole; instead, they are dealing with matters on an agenda that are only relevant to the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba - that's what it's all about. Mr.

Speaker, fussing and fuming about situations that just do not exist is a waste, and I say this by way of advice to members across the way and I don't expect them to accept my advice. In fact, if they had accepted my advice back in 1980 and '81 they might still be government today, but they chose not to accept my advice, so I feel qu ite secure, Mr. Speaker, in the fact they're not going to accept my advice this evening either. I would urge, -(Int erjection)- my, is there some thing wrong with the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker? Mr.

Speaker, I want to just gently and in a friendly way to the Leader of the Opposition, if the Leader of the Opposition would just listen for a moment - I would like him to listen; he might learn something if he would listen a little bit, rather than carry on as he has been - that if he and his colleag ues would try and use the weeks that this House is in recess to work hard, to research and develop ques tions about the real problems that are confronting Manitobans and, it's true, those of us that have been Opposition know that this is difficult when you're in Opposition, but I can assure members across the way that it's well worth the effort.

Mr. Speaker, if they don't do this, they're going to find that their credibility is going to continue to be shot to kingdom come even worse than it has been for the last number of months in this province. Mr. Speaker, they are going to find that continuing to chase nonexistent situations is not going to result in the establishment of any credibility for them on the part of Manitobans. You know, Mr. Speaker, a government does perform best when it is confronted with a hard-work ing and effective Opposition and we on this side don't claim perfection.

We've never claimed perfection unlike the honourable members across the way. We don't, Mr. Speaker, on this side as New Democrats or as members of this Opposition claim any self-righteous conviction that we have all the answers to the problems confront ing Manitoba; but if the Opposition had any valid or reasonable or constructive suggestions during these trying and difficult times when there is so much joblessness in the land, why have we not heard those constructive suggestions during this Session? If they are truly, Mr.

Speaker, the heirs of Bracken and of Roblin, let them show that they are the heirs of Roblin and Bracken by follow ing in their footsteps and by demonstrating the careful and constructive attitude that was displayed by those Conservatives in years gone by - let them. Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, Manito bans - and let me warn honourable members across the way - if they don't follow in that tradition, Manito bans will turn away in greater and greater numbers from the present Conservative party in the Province of Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, pointless, baseless and vicious attacks 240 on a daily basis as we have heard from across the way will convince even the staunchest Conservative that their present Conservative caucus is dead from the neck up. In times like these, the speech by the Leader of the Opposition was remarkable for its almost com plete lack of any specific proposals.

I would have though t that an Opposition, which believed it could attack the Government's economic performance, would have been eager during this sitting to compare our economic performance with that of other provin ces; I would have suspected that would have happened. Certainly the New Democratic Party, as the Member for Sturgeon Creek knows, was always eager and ready while we were in Oppositon to compare the question about the Government and about its relative performance with other provinces. Now - altho ugh, Mr.

Speaker, we have switched sides and we've moved from the Opposition to the Government and the former Government has moved to the Opposition - it seems that the New Democratic Party remains as the only party that welcomes comparisons with other provincial economies and I wonder why, Mr. Speaker. These have literally been the worst of times for most Canadians, the worst time in 40 years. For an analysis of the reasons, Mr. Speaker, you don't have to study some obscure economic journals; look indeed at the issue of Business Week that carries today's date. There is an

article -(I nterjection)- Mr. Speaker, if I could continue MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, look, as I indicated, at today's issue of Business Week. There's an

article discussing the present policies of Mr. Vokar, the head of the U.S. Central Bank. Mr. Vokar led the world in his devotion to tight money and to high interest rates. As the

article states, he went after inflation with a radical experiment in monetarism. The authors write that "monetarist strategy is dead now and though it suc ceeded in more than" and I would like honourable members across the way to listen. Maybe it won't occur in the front benches, but I think there are some members across the way that are beginning to reflect as to the God that ended up having but clay feet and, Mr. Speaker, that's what we are finding. "Alt hough the inflation rate was halved, the price was extraordinarily steep.

We had back to back recessions; we had the highest rate of unemployment since the great depres sion. We've had soaring bankruptcie s; we've had a severely strained international banking system." And this journal which, Mr. Speaker, I believe is quite a right-wing journal that would never, never a few months ago have written such an article, writes that "Vokar's sudden switch in strategy was motivated by his fear that the economy was on the verge of col lapse. Fiscal stimulus in the form of big tax cuts - not working. It has been fast becoming evident that only a relaxed monetary policy would work." The

article goes on to describe the lack of impact from the first few months of lower interest rates and the fact that Mr. Vokar is still reluctant to significantly stimulate the United States economy. A final quote from the articles says, "Mired in deep recession, the whole world is waiting for recovery in the U.S. econ-

14 December, 1982 omy," and that means that it is waiting for Vokar to lower interest rates enough to revive business and to create consumer confidence. You wouldn't find arti cles like this in business journals six months ago because they were still congratulating Mr. Vokar six months ago for the firmness of his monetary policy, for being tough enough to keep interest rates high. It seems that some people have finally learned that a policy which robs people of their jobs, of their farms, of their businesses, of their income, just is not only criminally wrong but it just economically makes no sense.

In fact, it's economic madness. It is a policy now, Mr. Speaker, that is even begin ning to eat away at the larger companies. If you have high interest rates you will find increasingly people being discouraged from buying homes, from buying household appliances, from purchasing cars. Highly profitable forest industries will start to show equally high losses. They will commence to close down. Mines will close down and the same is true for most sectors of the economy. Today's interest rates in the United States are still at historic high levels compared to their rate of inflat ion.

Rates in Canada are still higher than those in almost any other major industrialized nation and the effect of month after month of high interest rates has been a crisis of unemployment that has become the most significant reason for investors and consumers to lose confidence. There is no other word for it, Mr. Speaker; it is a word that I expressed only a few moments ago. It is economic madness. Those in December, 1982, who urge Canadians to sacrifice for the future by accepting massive jobless ness, Mr.

Speaker, are unfortu nately the same voices that we heard in 1980 and 1981 that were urging Can adians to sacrifice at that time forthe future by accept ing record high interest rates. Mr. Speaker, the people of Manitoba do not support, do not endorse that high interest rate tight-money kind of policy, nor does this Government. Manitobans are not prepared to accept these high levels of unemployment and neither is this Government. My colleagues and I are prepared to use and to seek every means within our provincial jurisdiction and our resources in order to meet this crisis.

We know that no single government can end unemployment on its own, but there is no reason for us to sit back and to do nothing. It is not a cause for despair; rather it is a clear challenge to stretch the Manitoba resources to the very limit in an effort to create jobs and to improve Manitoba's economic position. We have accepted that challenge. We have accepted that chall enge, Mr. Speaker , and so far Manitobans have a better employ ment record in 1982 tha n Ont ario, Alberta, British Columbia and Canada as a whole.

Anticipating that the recession would continue, we announced a package of measures in August which have been coming on-stream since then, designed to provide more than 4,000 Manitobans with work; con struction and renovation of homes, arena retrofits, improved sewer and water lines, repair of MHRC facil ities is some of the work provided. In essence, the priority has been work of long-term economic and social value which can be done now to provide jobs.

The Throne Speech included new and expanded programs to continue this approach and enter into 241 co-operation with the Federal Government, thus creating 2,000 additional new jobs. Every department has been directed to shift its economic activity, its spending activity, to those kinds of activities that create jobs because this Government does not intend to tu;n away from its primary responsibility at this time which is to create jobs now. Mr. Speaker, every member of this Chamber knows the terrible waste -(I nterjection)- Mr.

Speaker, as I have indicated, I don't intend to try to out-shout any body on the other side. Surely, every member of this Assembly knows the terrible waste of human lives and economic potential that massive unemployment causes. Families, entire communities come under strain. Young people start their working life on unem ployment insurance instead of on a job. An entire generation of young people are confronted with an ordeal that they did not deserve, Mr. Speaker. People are able to buy less and this is contributing further to the economic decline.

Even those who have a job are uncertain about keeping that job and their lack of confidence adds further to that decline. Native people and others that have been on the fringes of labour force discover that they're being pushed further and further back, a cycle of decline, Mr. Speaker , that feeds on itself and becomes a constant downward spiral. If leaders, business, government and labour are not willi ng to act constructively and effectively, the situation will worsen.

That is why this Government will continue to focus its efforts on jobs now and build the basis for recovery instead of preoccupying ourselves with the apparent Conservative lust, the lust that the Conservative Party seems to share so much, for cut backs that would do harm and damage to Manitobans. That is why, Mr. Speaker, in August, Manitoba pres ented a joint federal- provincial program of investment to strengthen the Canadian economy and to provide much needed jobs. You know, Mr.

Speaker, how much better would it be if we would jointly co-operate and work together, the Federal Government and provinces, to improve the railway system of Western Canada than to enter into this long and bitter and silly debate to force west ern farmers to abandon the Crow rate and to accept direct federal payments as a substitute. There is no ·better time tha n now, Mr. Speaker, for public invest ment in tourist facilities, for the fishing industry, for the revitalization of older neighbourhoods and for the main streets of this province.

Federal-provincial con struction of a Hydro line to Church ill would mean more northern jobs and a greater advantage for our prairie port. When the Minister of Finance meets with his col leagues from across the country later this week . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. Order please. I believe the honourable member is entitled to the same courtesy of a hearing that other members would expect when they are up speaking. The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When the Minister of Finance meets with his colleagues across the country later this week, he will make the case on behalf of Manitoba to his colle agues across

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 this country for a major co-operative investment in jobs now for a healthier economic base. Surely the value and the purpose of a strong central government could not be better demonstrated than at the present time, and surely the present hardships suffered by hundreds of thousands of families across Canada deserve nothing less. Mr. Speaker, I mentioned earlier the unusual fact that in this Assembly we have an Opposition that is reluctant to compare Manitoba's economic perfor mance to that of other provinces.

Well this Govern ment has been doing its fair share to create jobs and productivity. We want to do more and we acknowl edge it's not enough, Mr. Speaker. However, in the first 11 months of this year, Manitoba's performance in keeping and creating jobs was the third best in Canada according to Statistics Canada. That com pares, Mr. Speaker, to the seventh best performance achieved by the previous Government in 1978, fol lowed by the tenth and last in 1979 and in 1980.

This is a year when Manitobans have not been shocked and disheartened by the population trend, unlik e previous years under the previous administra tion. The provincial population, Mr. Speaker, is grow ing almost as quickly as the national average and comparably better than any time in the past four years. This is an indication of a relatively superior economy and a sign of confidence in the future of our province. Yes. Mr.

Speaker, let me say that the Op position is never more hypocritical than when they try to somehow connect the size of the Provincial Civil Service with the level of Manitoba's population and we've heard that only a few moments ago, references to that. No one is fooled by their attempt to say that the 1981 Tory increase of about 450 in the Civil Service was prudent while the 1982 NOP increase of 480 is altogether a different story; nobody's fooled.

The New Democratic Party can - nor can they sit there and holier about Saskatchewan, where the former Clerk of the Execu tive Council in Manitoba and the former Deputy Pre mier are working today and I wish them well, Mr. Speaker, but let there be no crocodile tears and false alarms. Manitobans judge both political parties by what they do and not what they say, and Manitobans know that this province is better off with a growing popula tion, despite what the Opposition might say, than it was when the Tories were spending so much time, Mr. Speaker, doing what? Denying that there had even been a population loss.

The change in Manitoba's unemployment rate dur ing the first 11 months of 1982 has been dramatic. Yes, it's been dramatic, the increase in unemployment, an increase from 6 percent to 8.2 percent. Yet even so, and I would like the members across the way to listen carefully to these comments, we have done better than the national average, something which was not true in 1978, 1979, 1981. My colle agues and I know the plight of thousands of unemployed is, and must be, our first concern.

I have been in The Pas to meet the Manfor workers and I've been in Thompson to meet the unemployed, the min ers this fall, and earlier I was in Leaf Rapids and Lynn Lake. I did visit the Native communities where we have witnessed 70 percent unemployment or mor e and I 242 know that the plight of the unemployed in those com munities is the plight of all Manitobans. Yet Manito bans can also take pride from knowing that, at least now, we're pull ing our weight within the national economy; that we've made a good start in coping with the disastrous recession. And yes, Mr.

Speaker, the comparatively good start has been made and can be a source of hope for us all. How about other economic indicators? -(I nter jection)- Wel l, Manitoba continues to lead the coun try in the growth of retail sales, an important indicator in the degree of consumer confidence. Once again, this is better than any of the past four years in Mani toba. Combined with our inflation rate, it means that small and large stores in Manitoba have been able to maintain much more of their business than in any other province.

This is the second year in a row that Manitoba enjoys the lowest rate of inflation in the country. It has been this Government's deli berate pol icy to freeze or to slowly increase public sector prices to the fullest possible extent.

Members opposite usually were willin g to point to one economic indicator, and I'd like the Member for Sturgeon Creek, the former Minister of Econom ic Developme nt, to listen carefully to this because I recall so frequently the former Minister of Economic Development, proudly, of all the figures he could pull out to try to substantiate progress under the previous administration, it was the figures pertaining to manu facturing shipments - yes, the member nods his head in agreement - I'm pleased to report"Mr.

Speaker, that the most recent figures for the first eight months of the year show Manitoba the third best performance in Canada. Again, better than in any of the four previous years comparatively, when relatively speak ing, Man itobans unfortunately weren't able to take advantage of the national economy because of their discredited policies. There are other indicators which I would like to see improved, although in none of them is Manitoba fal ling below the standard that existed between 1977 and 1981 in terms of comparison with other provinces.

The expectat ion is that Manitoba will cope as well with the downturn as any other province, and by all appearan ces, better than what is taking place in other provin ces. The forecast of a first-place performance means that this time Manitoba is doing better among the provinces than it did during the 1980 recession. Indeed, it appears that Manitoba is meeting the chal lenge more adequately than any recession during the past 20 years, because a fifth-best rate of ec onomic growth was until now the high-water mark for our provincial economy in difficult times.

The case that our party made in Opposition is the case that I make this evening; it is that the Provincial Government deserves to be judged on its economic performance, how it compares to that of other provin ces.

It 's always possible, if not probable, that Mani toba will do comparatively worse in the years that lie ahead when the economy is booming or at least is growing moderately, but my colleagues, however, will continue to discuss the economic situation and we'll talk to Manitobans about the problems that we're con fronted with in this province -just as we had been doing - and I think this explains some of the unusual activities on the part of members across the way. They

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 don't like, Mr. Speaker, how effectively we've been able to talk to Manitobans during the past 12 months: we'll continue to do so. Mr. Speaker. just as in 1981, we will leave it up to the people of Manitoba to judge and to compare the efforts of the Provincial Government against that of others. We are prepared on this side to leave it to the good judgment of Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the election campaign that commenced some 14 months ago, our party made a series of commitments to Manitobans.

We outli ned our platform day by day during the campaign, a procedure that was criticized and was criticized much by the Leader of the Opposition. My colleagues and I are keenly aware of the obl igation that we have to the people of Manitoba and we intend to fulfil! those commitments and if we can't fulfil! those comitments, we'll explain to Manitobans why we can't. Tonight, I'm able to report that all but three of the specific main comm itments we outli ned in the cam paign are now moving towards implementation and that many have already been fully implemented. To begin with, in the farm sector we said, Mr.

Speaker. we would sit down immediately with farm representatives to develop an income stabilization plan for the beef industry. That plan, Mr. Speaker. is now in place. It was developed through extensive consult ation with Manitoba farmers. Many hundreds and hundreds of farmers participated in that process in public meetings in every corner of this province, and there was at the beginning no clear consensus, I understand, as to how the program should be devel oped by the beef producers of Manitoba.

Yet, even those who opposed the final result have now said publicly that the present Minister of Agricultur e lis tened to their grievances. listened to their complaints, and he made changes in a responsible manner in the interests of Manitoba's beef farmers. In fact, Mr. Speaker, just as a little bit of extra news for members across the way, I understand that a majority of the directors of the Manitoba Cattle Pro ducers Association are now enrol led in the Beef Pro gram. Mr.

Speaker, I realize that what has happened is a process, a process that this Government believes in, of new polit ics in which people, in this case farmers, were involved in dozens of meetings throughout the province. Yet the developme nt of this plan for Mani toba beef was in my mind an excelle nt example of a government, how it combined its action in order to act positively and decisively and to consult widely with Manitobans. It was clear that this Government would fulfil! its promise of a stabil ization program.

It's also clear that those directly concerned would have a say as to how this plan would be developed. The operation of the plan was affected by farmers: the operation of the plan will be directed by farmers; it is now up to the beef producers of this province to decide voluntarily whether they wish to en roll or not. There are no easy answers to the instabil ity in the beef industry, but I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, tonight, and all members of this Chamber and most Manitobans agree, this Minister of Agricultur e deserves congratulations for a job well done. We promised -( Interject ion)- Mr.

Speaker, maybe the interruptions are a concerted effort on the part of 243 the Opposition to keep me wasting my time so I don't finish my speech. Mr. Speaker. we promised to remove provincial cap ital gains tax from the sale of family farms and that has been done so that, in Manitoba, these sales are sub ject to less capital gains tax than in any other province in Canada. This has helped giving retired farmers some decent opportunity in their retirement years and encourages them to sell to those who wish to continue family farming.

It was more clear, in the election campaign, that this Government would move against absentee ownership of farm land. Legislation to achieve that goal is before the House, as was indicated in the Throne Speech. Members have received the bills and, again, there have been opportunities, Mr. Speaker. and I want to mention this for a moment. We went out to rural Man itobans over the last few months and we discussed the contents of proposed legislation with Manitobans in their communities, and we discussed with Manito bans how that legislation should be framed.

I, and others on this side, we've encouraged that public dis cussion, we haven't hidden from that discussion. We haven't done, as the Leader of the Opposition sug gested in his speech, as he might have very well done. we didn't hide our faces. We went out and we met with the people of the Province of Manitoba and we dealt with those concerns that were expressed. What the legislation also reflects is that commitment to make sure that Manitoba farms are made available for Mani toba farmers.

Manitobans must know well that the many loopholes that have been used for speculative money to be invested in Manitoba farmlands in the past, those loopholes that have driven up the price without increasing the quality of farming one iota in this province, those loopholes will be closed, Mr. Speaker. And we do not intend to continue the cha rade that has been existing of a law against absentee ownership that actually winks at speculators and winks at foreign money interests.

My colle ague, the Minister of Municipal Affairs. has been working long and industriousl y on Main Street Manitoba with business and municipal representa tives of many communities, working with the Minister of Municipal Affairs to revitalize their communities. The expansion of the Childr en's Dental Care Pro gram has begun and the Minister of Health has been studying and consulting about the questions of how best to deliver denta: care in the school divisions that do not have that service now. Mr.

Speaker, this Government put a stop, as it pledged to do, to the practice of permitting the con struction of profit-making nursing homes in Mani toba. We have continued to build homes, but now only when they are sponsored, Mr. Speaker. by religious or non-profit organizations. As members opposite were reluctant to admit, this is a policy which Manitobans wanted and which will save them money. Increased health services for seniors had begun with eyeglasses and, once that first step is properly assessed, this Government will add hearing aids and dental services.

Health care construction has been increased sub stantially during the first year of this Government and other steps are under way to restore the health care system of this province.

14 December, 1982 A two-year, $23 mill ion interest rate relief program was promised during the campaign. That program has been in operation now for approximately a year and the latest figures, Mr. Speaker, indicate that more than 600 farms, additional hundreds of homes and busi nesses, have been saved because of that program, as pledged by this party in the last year's election campaign. We indicated, indeed it's clear, that ... MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

We made it clear during the announcement in the campaign that the scope of provincial action was limited and that, therefore, this program would be limited. But I think that Manitobans showed their pref erence for a Government which would do all it can over a Government that would do nothing except defend the high interest rate policies of Clark and Trudeau in Ottawa. Members opposite had the oppor tunity to lead the way in Canada and to introduce comprehensive interest rate relief, Mr. Speaker, and they chose not to provide that leadership. Some of them are asking that this program be expanded.

Wel l, in the December 4th Free Press, the Member for Tuxedo seemed to be asking that we end provincial interest rate relief for homeowners. I can tell them tonight that we intend to proceed with that program because it is doing exactly as was indicated. It's saving the homes and the farms and businesses of hundreds of Manitobans who are hardest hit. In northern communities large and small, Manito bans have seen that this Government, unlike members opposite, don't prefer welfare to jobs. Assis tance to the important resource industries had been built into job creation for the North.

With construction of fish structures, reforestat ion receiving emphasis, this Government has helped Manitoba fishermen, many of them in the North, to form an organization. In our negotiations with the new Northlands Agreement, we involved northern communities. We involved the peo ple in the northern communities in the process and we have ensured a priority within that agreement for job training, an agreement which members opposite were ready to predict, Mr. Speaker, but a few months ago, would never be signed.

Self-government in the North is being increased and, across Northern Manitoba, people know that their voice is now at last being heard. Tenants in Manitoba, once again, enjoy the protec tion of rent controls across the province. This ensures tenants the right to have unjustified rent increases rolled back. It provides landlords with recovery for their costs for a marginal profit. In addition, the Mani toba program is designed to eliminate speculation in rental propert ies. The Critical Home Repair Program was proceeded with as pledged, Mr. Speaker.

The program was allowed to dwindle away in 1978, '79, '80 and '81. It has now been revital ized and has been expanded as a part of an emphasis upon home reno vation across the province. We are now told that in some areas contractors are having some difficulty even keeping up with the work from that program. This is welcome news, indeed, after the economic drought that so many small businesses suffered dur- 244 ing the hands-off attitude of my friends across the way. Consultation is now under way within the frame work of the Community Child Day Care Standards.

I want to commend the Member for Wolseley for all the effort and work she has done on this, to involve par ents, day care operators and workers in the develop ment of standards for this most important service. The effort to ensure that Manitobans are heard in Washington, the Garrison issue has been stepped up dramatically. As I said in Portage earlier this year, there is no guarantee that this project will be changed to ensure it doesn't affect Manitoba but this Govern ment would rather make the effort than take the politi cally safer course of doing little and disclaiming responsibility.

We would prefer to make the direct representations. French language services are being extended in a manner that reflects the judgment of the Su preme Court of Canada that Manitoba is officially a bilingual province, yet it also avoids the expensive questioned approach that's been taken by the Federal Govern ment in different circumstances. Manitoba is the only officially bilingual and multi-cultural province. This Government is working with ethnic groups to estab lish a multi-cultural policy and a policy that properly reflects our rich and our diverse heritage in this province.

It is in this Session that the Legislature will deal with the reform of the Workplace Safety and Health legisla tion and of pension benefits once it's healthier and safer work places to prevent injury and death. The other seeks to improve the means by which Manito bans set aside part of their salary to ensure a decent income after they retire. Both these reforms are long overdue. Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to tell the Leader of the Opposi tion if there is one item that's been referred to favour ably over and over to me by people outside this build ing, working people, elderly people nearing retirement, and that is, at long last, there's efforts to bring about pension reform in the Province of Manitoba. I have received numerous indications of support.

Maybe the Leader of the Opposit ion would like to know too that these same people have expressed pleasure that this Government is looking at the Manitoba Public Insu rance Corporation to expand its operations if indeed they can help to bring about some improvement in respect to pension reform. This Government moved immediately upon its elec tion to implement the steps in orderly Hydro devel opment that had been promised. Hydro and building trades have negotiated a historic clause that provides jobs for northerners on future Hydro construction.

We have been pursuing all markets for Manitoba's elec tricity, not just one market. No one would deny that the recession has slowed down the demand for electricity and thus new gener ating capacity. Nobody denies that, except possibly members across the way. The Al berta Government has made it very clear in its public statements about the present priority to develop projects that create jobs in that province. I do not know whether the North American economy will improve sufficiently to advance the date of new Hydro construction in the next year or two, but I understand very well all the smoke and

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 accusations that have been thrown up as a screen by that party that spent four years demonstrating its hos til ity to Hydro construction that it had developed when it had been in Opposition prior to 1977. With the creation of the Manitoba Oil and Gas Cor poration, increased investment in mineral resources development, this Government is fulf illing the com mitment to increase the stake Manitobans have in the development of their province's resources.

The depth of the recession draws almost all attention to short term economic solutions yet this Government is not prepared to act only for the short term. We've stated the case in the campaign that Manito ba's economy is stronger when the public sector is actively investing in this economy. That long-term strength will be needed when the recession ends and the investment will be undertaken now. We don't think that Manitobans want their government to invest only in industries that have present or future problems. Why should n't Manitobans enjoy some participation in the successes of the province?

We think they should and we'll proceed with these investments in the resource industries. Mr. Speaker, without going into further detail, I think they know that this is a Government that a prom ise made is a promise kept. I know and I understand the bitterness across the way, bitterness from a group that must be so bitter in seeing now in place a gov ernment that is undertaking measures that they refused to undertake during their four years while they were in office. It mu st be even more bitter for them when they remember how many of their specific election com mitments were never touched.

Tonight I can assure Manitobans that this Government will continue to keep faith with them by proceeding with the commit ments that were made in the election. Mr. Speaker, in the Throne Speech Debate last Fri day I stated that our main goal could be described as providing good government for Manitoba. This is a goal which one can never consider at any time to be accompl ished. Yet I know that people on every corner of this province and from every walk of life have learned that this is a government which listens to them, considers their views and is prepared to seek the best alternative.

We do not hide our political philo sophy, but unlike members opposite, we apply our political philosophy on a day-to-day basis facing the problems of individuals within the province. It is within the context of that reality that a political philo sophy must be judged. In the months that lie ahead we will continue our process of working in partnership with business and with labour. We know ful l-well that there will never be complete harmony in business, labour and government, but there is no justification tor fixed attitudes or closed minds.

The Economic Summit Conference at Portage la Prairie was a demonstration of the fact that in Mani toba, at least, government, business and labour repre sentatives can sit down together, can discover many areas of mutual agreement, and many shared percep tions. In North America the relations between these economic partners has often been marked by mistrust and by hostil ity.

I do not know if Manitoba can truly break that mold, but I do know that it's well worth the effort on the part of us to seek political and effective ways of developing and operating programs through co-operation by all three of these economic groups within the Manitoba economy. In terms of attitude, this Government will continue to demonstrate that it does not fear or define as its enemy either business or labour . We're not afraid to see eithe r the increase in the strength of labour or the increase in the strength of business in Manitoba.

We will continue to encourage business and labour to continue to sit down and talk and work with each other to provide constructive proposals and ideas to work with Manitobans. This is going to be whether the Opposition likes it or not, this is going to continue to be an open Govern ment that will continue to consult with Manitobans. This consolatory approach is evident in many new programs that have been and will be brought forward by our Government.

They reflect the advice and wis dom of people throughout the province, and I want to say that during the past two, three months we've had opportunity to - I've had the opportunity to personally visit many communities in ridings held by members across the way, Boissevain, Melita, Souris, Virden, Birtle, Russel l, Roblin, Minnedosa - and, Mr. Speaker, what I want to say here this ev ening, although the majority - wel l, I could go on and on and on, I'm dealing only with one corner of the province where I've been - Mr.

Speaker. what I appreciated in those communities, when I sat down in those communities and talked about local and provincial concerns, the people in those communities - many of which were members of the party across the way - put aside parti san bickering and joined constructively with us in making their proposals to make a better Manitoba. I appreciated that because, Mr. Speaker, the people in those communities and in the other some 44 different communities that I had the opportunity to visit were pleased to join hands with us to work together to build a better Manitoba. These are difficult times, Mr. Speaker.

They are times that require the innovative spirit that will exam ine programs, that will prepare to eliminate those pro grams that are irrelevant in order that we can proceed with new thr usts, new programs relevant to the 1980s, programs- not programs of severe restraint and mind less cutbacks that may have no sense or rhyme - but programs that are directed to stimu lating the econ- . omy, to creating jobs so that we can work towards recovery. 245 Mr.

Speaker, we have a program for the shorHerm, a program for the medium-term, a program for the long-term, to build upon the strengths of this province and to ensure that Manitobans whether they be farmer, whether they be worker, whether they be bus iness person, whether they be Native, whether they be professional, wherever they be, can join together in that task of work ing together through this recession, of setting aside partisan bickering, that too often we see in this Chamber, in the interest of the total prov ince so we can move on to build in this province a community, Mr.

Speaker, that need be second to none in Canada. We have much that is great in this pro vince, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a good start has been made and that work is going to continue over the next three years. So, I urge members to support the Throne Speech this evening and to move qu ickly towards the discus sion of legislation. Mr. Speaker, talking about corn-

Tuesday, 14 December, 1982 petency, I note that we've already tabled many many bills which has, I believe, never before occurred in the province so early in the Session - I guess members don't like that very much - so that members across the way will have the opportunity along with other members to peruse that legislation before we resume our operations later, so we can prepare, also com plete, the Spending Estimates for 1983-84. Manito bans expect an openminded and effective govern ment, a serious approach to issues; and to face the problems that are confronting us, we intend to con tinue that approach, Mr.

Speaker. We intend to work with Manitobans in that process, not work against Manitobans, not to preach to Manitobans, but to work with Manitobans. There is onl y one other issue I would like to have dealt with, Mr. Speaker, but I see my time is running out. I had wanted to spend a few moments on the question of peace, because, Mr. Speaker, there really is not much import in what I have said about us mak ing a better province and a better world, if there be no world for us to enjoy.

I don't know whether I have leave for this; I suppose it's not within your prerogative but I did want to have dealt with the question of disarma ment briefly at the conclusion of my remarks. I think it's too important to ... MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Does the Honourable First Minister have leave to continue? Order please. Order please. Order please.

In accor dance with our Rule 35(4) , I' m interrupting the pro ceedings to put the motion to the House; it is on the motion of the Honourable Member for Riel for an Address to Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in answer to her Speech at the opening of the Session. QUESTION put, MOTION carried. MR. H. CARROLL: Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Has the honourable member sup port? (Agreed) Call in the mem bers. MR. SPEAKER: Order please.

The motion before the House is the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Riel for an Address to Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in answer to her Speech at the opening of the Session. A STANDING VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: YEAS Messrs. Adam, Anstett, Ashton, Bucklasc huk, Cor rin, Cowan, Desjard ins, Mrs. Dodick, Mr. Doern, Ms. Dolin, Messrs. Evans, Eyler, Fox, Harapiak, Harper, Mrs. Hemphill. Messrs. Kostyra, Lecuyer, Mackling, Malinowsk i, Parasiuk, Pawley, Penner, Ms. Phillip s, Messrs. Plohman, Santos, Schroeder, Scott, Mrs. Smith, Messrs. Uruski, Uskiw. NAYS Messrs.

Banman, Bla ke, Brown, Carroll, Downey, Dr iedger, Enns, Filmon, Gour lay, Graham , Mrs. 246 Hammond, Messrs. Hyde, Joh nston, Kovnats, Lyon, Manness, McKenzie, Nordman, Mrs. Oleson, Messrs. Orchard, Ransom, Sherman, Steen. MR. ACTING CLERK, Gordon Mackintosh: Yeas, 31, Nays, 23. MR. SPEAKER: The motion is accordingly carried. The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance that the House do now adjourn. MOTION presented and carried and the House adjou rned and stands adjou rned until 2:0 0 p.m. tomorrow afternoon (Wednesday).

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	32-2-9b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	32nd 2nd hansardpdf 9b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9dc6f0d24fff9dfdbd099cd3ffaf47bde34b8bf4

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