June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 223 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Wednesday, June 25, 1986 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 p.m.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: TABLING RETURNS AND REPORTS MR. FJORDBOTTEN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table copies of the annual report for the Department of Tourism and Small Business for the year 1984-85. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS MR. CLEGG: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce to you and through you a group of 18 grades 7 and 8 students from Blueberry Creek school in the Spirit River School Division in the constituency of Dunvegan, along with teach­ ers D.

Meredith Pond, parents Ken Charlton and Pat Kutrowski. I would like them all to stand and ask that we all give them the traditional welcome of the Legislative Assembly. MR. STEVENS: It is my privilege to introduce to you, and through you to the members of the Assembly, the members of the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Com­ mission, most often referred to as AADAC. Today is the first commission meeting since I was appointed chairman. The commission members have had the opportunity to meet the Minister of Community and Occupational Health as well. They are seated in your gallery, Mr.

Speaker, and I would ask each commissioner to stand when I call his or her name. I would ask the Assembly to hold their welcome until they are all standing. These men and women are volunteers from across Alberta: Mr. Walt Boddy, Mrs. Aris Coventry, Dr. Tom Melling. Mrs. Lynne Pitt, Mr. Dick Ramsay, Mrs. Lee Reekie, Mr. Leonard Thom, and Vice-Chairman Doug White. Accom­ panying the commission members are executive director of AADAC, Mr. Jan Skirrow, and executive assistant to the chairman, Mrs. Betty Maurice. Would the members please signify their welcome. MR. PIQUETTE: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to introduce to you and through you three very special visitors to this Legislature today. My son Colin and my daughters Michelle and Andrea are sitting in the public gallery. As MLAs you all know that our families can often take the back seat in the attention department, especially during the provincial election and the sitting of the House. Colin, Michelle, Andrea: you are still number one in my life. I would urge all members of this Assembly to give them a very warm welcome. MR. ROSTAD: Mr.

Speaker, it's indeed my pleasure to introduce to you and the members of this Assembly 21 young adults who are grade 6 students in Our Lady of Mount Pleasant school in the Camrose constituency. They are accompanied by their teachers Mr. Joe Tuchscherer and Mrs. Cathy Brown and by drivers Mr. Ed Lauer and Mrs. Bernie Gumpinger. I would ask that they stand and be recognized and receive the welcome of this Assembly. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD North West Trust MS BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask a question of the minister responsible for the Securities Commission.

I assume that would be the Consumer and Corporate Affairs minister. I wonder if the minister has arranged any meeting with the Alberta Securities Commission to discuss their policy with respect to filing requirements for annual financial statements to determine whether there is any time limit to the number of extensions a company may be granted before they must file. MISS McCOY: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is quite right in her assumption regarding the Securities Commission, and the answer is no. MS BARRETT: Not very healthy.

With regard to North West Trust, has the government any explanation it can offer on a cease-trade order of North West Trust shares? MISS McCOY: Mr. Speaker, as members opposite may know — but it appears as if they don't — the Securities Commission is a quasi-judicial, independent tribunal, and that means it operates without direction and control of the government. It operates according to its mandate as set out in the statute. With reference to the particular matter the member opposite has raised, that has been decided by the Securities Commission. It was decided yesterday.

There was a decision from the bench that the extension be given. MS BARRETT: A supplementary question. Mr. Speaker, perhaps to the Treasurer this time. I wonder if the Treasurer would outline any other options available to him to ensure protection for the public investment, which he referred to just a few days ago in this Assembly, other than either withdrawing the $85 million in Treasury Branch funds and thus jeopardizing the future of the company or leaving those tax dollars there and wishing real hard that nothing bad happens. Would he indicate what other options are available, please? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker, the remedies suggested by the New Democratic Party would of course not be ones which this government would follow. We will do more than wish; we will take whatever action is required. I don't have to recite the sections of the Trust Companies Act as to what the remedies and possibilities are, and I think the response of the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs properly outlined the position of the government with respect to the final requirements. MS BARRETT: One final supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

Perhaps the Provincial Treasurer would identify what concrete steps he has taken to protect against the loss of this huge amount of money. MR. JOHNSTON: Once again, Mr. Speaker, the member is leading us into the area of speculation. I'll simply say

224 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 that we will take all steps necessary, and the legislation is clear as to what our responsibility is, and we'll abide by that legislation. Women's Secretariat MS BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this inquiry to the minister responsible for the Women's Secretariat. As the member is likely aware, statements made yesterday by at least two members of the government side startled and amazed women of this province. Apparently, there is still some debate about whether or not women should work for pay.

Therefore, I wonder if the minister would state, on behalf of this government, his policy regarding public support for initiatives such as child care and family violence shelters, which give women at least a chance at equality. MR. ANDERSON: Mr. Speaker, such a large question could lead to an hour-long answer, but to be brief with respect to it, this government firmly supports the concept of assisting women and men in terms of day care in the country. We are in fact the greatest provider of day care spaces in Canada and have the greatest accessibility to those kinds of programs.

We firmly believe in supporting the concept of women's shelters when women have been hurt or harmed by spouses. By and large, we support — I should maybe make that more emphatic, Mr. Speaker. We totally support the concept of equal pay in terms of individuals, be they men or women. We support equality and have that enshrined in our legislation. MS BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, might I just briefly add that I look forward to the hour-long discussion in which I can also hear reference to drug addiction.

Has the minister asked the Women's Secretariat or the chair of his mysterious advisory council to develop any sort of policy education program on the need for these services? MR. ANDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I'd have to have a def­ inition of policy . . . I can't recall the term the hon. member used. Policy? Advisory? Direction? MS BARRETT: I'm reluctant to abandon a supplementary question on this matter. Is it a matter of clarification, Mr. Speaker? I said policy or education program. Okay, I'll move on then. During debate yesterday the hon. Member for Grande Prairie asked why this province needs women's shelters.

Given that some estimates indicate that over 55,000 women are battered in Alberta, I wonder if the minister has any plans for a seminar for members of this Assembly on the crisis of violence against women. MR. ANDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I haven't considered a seminar for hon. members, though if the members opposite feel that's necessary, I can certainly give them any literature they might require on the topic. I do take the situation with respect to the battering of women seriously.

I hope in the not too distant future to table the paper which the government of Alberta presented to the status of women ministers in British Columbia, who met a couple of weeks ago, which in fact entails and details what we're doing right across many departments of our government to try and deal with that very definite problem. Perhaps that information will suffice in terms of the information the hon. member is requesting. MS BARRETT: A handy first start, Mr. Speaker. One final supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: You've had three supplementaries I'm afraid. MR. TAYLOR: Mr.

Speaker, a supplemental to the Minister of Social Services. In view of some of the messages we got yesterday from Calgary McKnight and other members of the new free-speaking caucus, could she give any outline as to what the government's plans are and if there are plans to cut back on day care services, as was suggested by the hon. Member for Calgary McKnight? MR. MUSGREAVE: A point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker. I did not suggest that, as the hon. member has suggested, and I would ask him to withdraw that remark. MR. SPEAKER: Would you please resume your seat. Thank you, hon. member.

As mentioned two days ago, matters of order and matters of privilege are going to be raised at the end of question period, not at this time. That was a matter of personal privilege and can indeed be raised again at the end of question period. I think the Member for Westlock-Sturgeon is about to give us his supplementary on the issue that was raised by the acting leader of the New Democratic Party. Could we have a brief supplementary please before we go onto the next question. MR. TAYLOR: The supplementary, Mr. Speaker, was not — I know the hon. member has no say.

It was with respect to whether or not the government is going to cut back on its commitment to day care in view of some of the opinions expressed by the Member for Calgary McKnight. MRS. OSTERMAN: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. leader has read the budget document, he will be fully aware that we have a steadfast commitment to services for children in this province. In fact, they have been enhanced. Grain Transportation MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Agriculture, with an admirable change of pace here.

In view of the announcements and reports that the farmers are having trouble finding space in the grain elevators to deliver this year's crop — as you know, the Wheat Board has designated June 28 as the final deadline — has the minister considered setting up a hot line or some method of informing those farmers where the elevators are plugged, that there is room elsewhere, or where the room is in the province? MR. ELZINGA: In regard to the hon. Member for Westlock- Sturgeon, I'm sure he is aware that this does fall under the minister responsible for the Wheat Board at the federal level, Mr. Charlie Mayer.

But I am more than happy to communicate with Mr. Mayer, indicating the concerns that have also been expressed to myself as it relates to the movement of grain prior to the end of their quota allotment. MR. TAYLOR: A supplemental, Mr. Speaker. I'm aware that your federal cousin calls the tune, but I had hoped that you'd have fairly good communication with him. I thought you might be able to tell the farmers just where these agents would be.

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 225 MR. SPEAKER: Forgive me, hon. member. We've had discussions previously about using "you" and so forth in terms of the debate. In question, period could we please direct it to "the minister." Thank you very much. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Could we look at the line: is the minister prepared to help the farmers who cover the extra costs of shipping their grain to these farther points or trucking their grain to the point to be picked up? MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, maybe I could indicate at the outset that I would recommend more individuals from the constituency of Westlock-Sturgeon attend the Chamber, because I noticed the hon. member's behaviour is much more measured and guided when he does have actual constituents here to see how he conducts himself. Let me indicate to him that this government is always prepared to do what they can to help our agricultural sector. If that is a representation the hon. member is making, we take all representations very seriously. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the minister. I'm glad for his lessons in public behaviour.

At least somebody does come out to watch me, which is more than he can say. The next supplemental is to the hidden Minister of Agri­ culture. In view of the fact that many times as you wait at railroad crossings in this province you see hopper cars going by with "produced" or "courtesy," or whatever it is, "of the heritage trust fund," could the minister tell us where these hopper cars are now when we need them? In Ontario? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I'm not aware of where the hopper cars are, but I'm more than happy to look into it for the hon. Member for Westlock-Sturgeon. MR.

TAYLOR: The last supplemental is again with respect to the hopper cars. Mr. Speaker, I know that after two years of grasshoppers and poor crops, the minister may have designated hopper cars off to Ontario or Quebec. Does he have any idea where they are now in this province? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, we're more than happy to inquire where they are, but I want to leave the hon. member the assurance that these hopper cars are used in a very productive way on behalf of the grain growers of this province.

I should also share with him that this government has been very active in a number of programs that directly relate to agriculture to offset the input cost, because unlike him and his counterparts, we recognize the difficulties the agricultural sector is facing. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question with regards to representation to the Canadian Wheat Board or the minister, Mr. Mayer. Could the minister indicate whether any representation has been made on behalf of Alberta farmers for an increase in the initial price of grain in the new '86-87 crop year? MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, we are in communication on a regular basis and discuss areas of concern to all of the agricultural sector. Again, if the hon. member wishes to make that as a representation, we're more than happy to take it as such. MR. FOX: A supplementary to the hon. Minister of Agri­ culture. Would he be prepared to consider making repre­ sentations to his federal counterpart, the minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, that quota extensions be granted for the delivery points that are plugged and where producers are worried about getting their '85-86 grain delivered before the deadline? MR.

ELZINGA: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. MR. HYLAND: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Agriculture. Would he enlist the support of the vast majority of the people of Alberta in seeing that those cars are moving by having people phone his office when they think a car has sat on a siding too long, it's off on a siding, it has sat by an elevator too long, or is found in a place where there is no grain so he could ask the CPR or the CNR why the cars aren't moving? MR. ELZINGA: I'd be more than happy to, Mr.

Speaker, but I should indicate too — I know the hon. member who just put the question to me does this on a regular basis. The only reason I underscore it is because I know he does it, and I'm not so sure about members in the other parties. As it does fall under federal jurisdiction, if you're not contacting your federal Member of Parliament, you're negat­ ing your responsibilities. MR. TAYLOR: We don't have one. Farm Credit Stability Program MR. R. SPEAKER: Very appropriate comments have been made.

My question is to the Minister of Agriculture as well, and it's a follow-up to yesterday's question, where I indicated to the minister that on June 16 the associate minister indicated that the farm credit stability program was an addition to the ADC lending program. Yesterday the minister indicated that there would be no stacking of programs and that existing ADC loan amounts would be subtracted from the $200,000 loan limit. Mr. Speaker, to me there's a clear contradiction between those two statements, and I've examined throne speeches, budget speeches, and it's very unclear.

My question to the minister is: why was the limitation not announced during the election, and could he clarify whether this is a policy change since he has become minister of the department? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, the only contradiction I see is in the member's own mind. If he would be kind enough to indicate to me in written form as to where he sees this contradiction, I'd be more than happy to respond. It appears to me as if he is fabricating something that is not an actual fact.

That has been the position of this party — and I am consistent in bringing it forward — as was advocated during the election campaign. As I indicated to him yesterday, the reason is that we want to make sure that this availability is spread out to the farming population to as great an extent as we possibly can. In the event that we allow stacking, we are limiting the amount of farmers that can participate. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the minister.

It may not be a contradiction in his mind, but one minister says that this new program is a supplement to the ADC program; the minister says it's not. My question

226 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 to the minister is very clear: is it a supplement to the present programs and there will clearly be $2 billion available in new moneys to the farmers of Alberta, or are the current programs subtracted from the $2 billion worth of programs before it is effectively put before the farmers of Alberta? MR. ELZINGA: Again, Mr. Speaker, it's obvious the hon. member has a misunderstanding. It is a supplement, but we're not going to allow stacking.

We're going to have an additional $2 billion available to the farming population in addition to the excess of $1 billion under ADC and in addition to the other worthwhile programs that we have under our Department of Agriculture right now. It is a supplement, but we're not allowing stacking. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that clari­ fication and so will the farmers of Alberta, because many of them across this province misunderstand that. A supple­ mentary question to the Minister of Agriculture with regards to other programs that may be involved in this no-stacking concept.

Could the minister indicate whether Treasury Branch farm loans or farm development loans that are guaranteed are considered items that cannot be stacked as well? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the speedy introduction of this legislation, and when the legislation is before the House of Commons, I would hope that members in the opposition party would give it speedy passage so that we could have it available to the farming population as quickly as possible. I look forward at that time to getting into the details of it with the hon. member. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: You've already had three supplementaries. Yes indeed. The Member for Vegreville. I'm sorry; I've been corrected. It's yours, Member for Little Bow. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, that's the fourth time I've only had two supplementaries, and being very tolerant with the new Speaker, I haven't said anything prior to this. A supplementary question to the minister. Yes, we want this speedy movement with regards to this program. When will the guidelines be presented to this Legislature so we can discuss it? When will the confusion which prevails today in this province over this program be eliminated? MR.

ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, may I say at the outset, as my colleague pointed out to me, I referred to this august Chamber as the House of Commons. I'm sorry; I haven't quite adjusted yet to the opportunity of serving in this House. Let me share with the hon. member that we are going to proceed with it very, very quickly. I should assure him that with the correspondence and telephone calls we have had to date, the individual farmers contacting me do not have the confusion that the hon. member has. MR. FOX: A supplementary, to the hon. Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Speaker.

Could he indicate to us just how the $200,000 limit was arrived at? MR. ELZINGA: The figures that were put together within the Department of Agriculture indicated that the average farm debt in Alberta was in the vicinity of $180,000. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary to the minister, Mr. Speaker. In his new guidelines for the loans that are coming out, is the minister prepared to do away with the anti- spouse discrimination that now exists in the Alberta Agri­ cultural Development Corporation, whereby a man with his brother can get $200,000 each, but a man with his wife is limited to $200,000?

Is the minister prepared to recognize that wives are often partners in farming and should also qualify for a $200,000 loan? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, this government does rec­ ognize in a very strong way that women do play a very dominant role in our agricultural sector. That is exactly why our Premier saw fit to appoint an associate minister to this very important sector to recognize the important role that women play.

Again, as I mentioned to the hon. member earlier, if he is sincere in his representations, I would hope he would put them in writing so that we can give proper consideration to some suggestions — and I stress the word "some" — from him that are worth while. Grizzly Bear Hunt MR. STEVENS: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the minister of forestry. There is a controversy surrounding the hunting of the grizzly bear in Banff-Cochrane, in Kananaskis Coun­ try, and in southwest Alberta. My question to the minister is: why was this grizzly bear hunt undertaken? MR. SPARROW: Mr.

Speaker, my department's respon­ sibility is to maintain wildlife populations but at the same time to ensure the public's safety from that wildlife. Quite a number of considerations were given before this was undertaken in K-Country. Bear populations have increased, public interaction between the bear and hunters and rec- reationalists has increased, and bear complaints have increased. Last year we disposed of two problem grizzlies in that area, and our wildlife biologists and our professionals rec­ ommended that we proceed with a hunt.

It's worthy to note that these same recreationalists or professional staff were the ones who recommended several years ago to close it down. MR. STEVENS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The min­ ister has indicated that studies and officials have been involved. As the grizzly bear is an endangered species, what is the minister's estimate of the number of bears that will be killed or harvested in this year's hunt? MR. SPARROW: No, Mr. Speaker, to the first part of that question. The grizzly is not an endangered species in Alberta. As for the second portion of that question, we intend to issue about 25 permits.

We anticipate about two to three bears being killed, about an equal number to what staff had to dispose of last year. MR. STEVENS: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary, if I may. Has there been any public input or advice provided or sought by the minister in coming to this decision? MR. SPARROW: Yes, Mr. Speaker. As the first step each year the Fish and Wildlife regulations are run through local committees with our staff.

Then our Fish and Wildlife Advisory Council, which is a provincial organization of some 25 organizations, goes through those regulations prior to recommending to the minister what changes should be

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 227 made. On that 25-member board are quite a number of outfits: Unifarm, Fish & Game, AWA; it goes on and on. The provincial organizations sit six times a year and give me recommendations on any changes in wildlife regulations. MR. HAWKESWORTH: Mr. Speaker, on a supplementary to the minister. He indicated the grizzly bear was not an endangered species. I wonder whether that's on the basis of its populations in Alberta only or in North America.

If it's only within Alberta and not North America, do we have any wider responsibility for North American species that might have a significant population solely within the borders of Alberta? MR. SPARROW: Mr. Speaker, in some states and elsewhere in the world the grizzly bear has been put on endangered species lists. In Alberta our estimates are that we have between 500 and 1,000, according to the Fish and Wildlife status report that came out a year ago. Although we have been having hunts, the grizzly bear has to be managed well, and it takes an exceptional hunter to track one down.

As I mentioned, I think the key is that where we do have problem bears, we should be using a recreational opportunity to harvest them rather than having our staff dispose of them. [The Member for Calgary Foothills rose] MR. SPEAKER: I'm sorry, hon. member. The question was raised by a government member. Therefore, there are no supplementaries for other government members on this issue. AN HON. MEMBER: What? MR. SPEAKER: That's correct. The Member for Edmonton Glengarry followed by the Member for Edmonton Mea- dowlark. Toxic Waste Disposal Plant MR. YOUNIE: Mr. Speaker, I will try to have much shorter

preambles than the hon. Liberal leader has had to this point. A question for the Minister of the Environment: is he planning to proceed with the proposed agreement that will see Bow Valley Resource Services and Chem-Security Ltd. build and manage the Swan Hills waste disposal plant? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, a memorandum of under­ standing was signed between the Special Waste Management Corporation and Bow Valley Resources earlier this year, and I have a series of graphs that I'll be reviewing as the months go on. MR. YOUNIE: A supplementary.

Docs this indicate that the department then has decided to accept an escalation of cost to taxpayers from $25 million to $46 million, as outlined in the Special Waste Management Corporation letter of December 3, 1985? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, as with all matters dealing with construction in the province of Alberta and in recog­ nition of the very, very high and safe safety standards that we're demanding of the Alberta Special Waste Management Corporation, I'm not troubled by a difference in dollar figures because the hon. member hasn't yet identified what is causing the difference. MR.

YOUNIE: I suspect it's not increased wages. A supplementary. In view of Bow Valley Resource Services' unwillingness to accept any downside risk, has the minister reviewed the joint-venture proposals that were originally brought forward by Stablex Canada Limited, Tricil cor­ poration, or the combination of Genstar Conservation and IT Corp. to see if any of them offer a better deal than Bow Valley Resource Services is offering? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I'm pretty satisfied that the memorandum of understanding that was signed earlier in 1986 is a very, very important one and a good one for the people of Alberta.

MR. YOUNIE: A supplementary. Has the minister then decided to ignore the Woods Gordon analysis that the plant is not viable in the private sector and should therefore be operated in the public sector as a public service? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, financing for the Special Waste Management/Bow Valley Resource joint-venture plant in Swan Hills will be funded on the basis of 60 percent by Bow Valley Resources and 40 percent by the Special Waste Management Corporation.

With the funding proposal the Special Waste Management Corporation will have 50 percent of the number of scats on the board of directors: Bow Valley will have an equal number. I think we're very, very well-protected. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the minister. Could he indicate whether the final decision with regards to the agreement with Bow Valley Resources was a decision of the Alberta Special Waste Management committee, who could have made the decision, or was it a ministerial and a political decision? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr.

Speaker, under the legislation the Special Waste Management Corporation operates under, it is a Crown corporation. The people of Alberta, through the government, of Alberta, recognize the importance with respect to the plant. Consultations have been ongoing with the Minister of the Environment on this matter. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I'm sorry; you've had your supplementary. The hon. member knows Beauchesne as well as most people in the House. The minister doesn't necessarily have to give you the answer if you weren't satisfied.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Edmonton Meadowlark followed by the Member for Edmonton Mill Woods. MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, this is not a supplemental. I would like to go with my full set of questions. I would like the terms of the contract with BVRS and CSL to be clear to the House. Could the minister please indicate why BVRS will receive a guaranteed return on their deemed equity investment of 13 percent after taxes and 25 percent before taxes, which they don't pay this year because they're losing money, without taking any risk and after covering all carrying costs and operating expenses? MR.

SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon. minister, before you reply. Could I ask the indulgence of the House that rather

228 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 than give us all these esoteric, alphabetical soup combinations in the questions, you give us the full listing of what these companies really are. It would be very helpful for other members in the House who don't have the same knowledge you do. The hon. minister, please. MR. KOWALSKI: Mr.

Speaker, I'd be very, very happy to go through the whole memorandum of understanding that was signed several months ago between the Special Waste Management Corporation and Bow Valley Resources, but I would suspect that you, sir, would rule me out of order with respect to the length of the response I would give. I'd be very, very delighted to have this whole matter discussed when the estimates of Alberta Environment are before the House in a matter of days. MR. MITCHELL: Could you please table the memorandum, Mr. Minister? This is a point of order. I'd rather not waste a question. MR.

SPEAKER: Make the request that it's on the Order Paper. MR. MITCHELL: Thank you. The Alberta Special Waste Management Corporation was established to protect the interests of Albertans from an objective point of view. Could the minister please indicate why he did not accept the Alberta Special Waste Management Corporation's recom­ mendation late last year to reject the Bow Valley Resource Services/Chem-Security Ltd. offer and to pursue tenders from other, financially stronger companies? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I've only been the Minister of the Environment since May 26. MR. MITCHELL: On a point of order, Mr.

Speaker. I understood that we couldn't direct questions of this nature to previous speakers. Could the minister please assume responsibility for that question? MR. SPEAKER: The difficulty that's occurring, hon. Mem­ ber for Edmonton Meadowlark, is that the detail involved really does make it a matter for the Order Paper. It also has certain elements which bring it more in line with the question that will take place in estimates, where there's much more opportunity for ebb and flow and to go into much more detail.

I think that's part of what's here, so perhaps you might take it under advisement that you might put it onto the Order Paper. That would be appreciated by the Assembly. MR. MITCHELL: A supplementary please. Could the min­ ister ensure that the hazardous wastes that have in the past been imported to this province by firms such as Kinetic will no longer be imported and transported through our communities to the Swan Hills waste management plant when it's completed? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, the government has had a moratorium on such wastes since the spring of 1984. MR. R.

SPEAKER: A supplementary question to the hon. minister. Could he indicate whether final approval for Bow Valley Resources in carrying out the responsibilities with the Alberta Special Waste Management Corporation was given by the minister? In the giving of that final approval, did the minister review the current financial report and conditions of Bow Valley Resources before finalizing the agreement? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, this minister has given no final approval. MR. STRONG: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to direct my question to the minister.

Will he guarantee this Assembly that all the construction people on that worksite will have Alberta trades qualifications? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, the responsibility for the construction of the plant site will be held by the joint- venture corporation. That plant site will be located essentially within the constituency I represent, and the hon. member should be very much aware that I will be very concerned about who's employed at the site. I will be requesting that preference be given to constituents of mine. ACCESS MR. GIBEAULT: Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Technology, Research and Telecommunications regarding the closures of the ACCESS network three regional offices in Lethbridge, Red Deer, and Grande Prairie. Can the minister confirm for the Assembly that in fact the real reason for the closure of these offices is that the ACCESS senior management, none of whom are professional edu­ cators, have in fact diverted the funds from basic service to students and educators into the satellite service? MR. YOUNG: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, I cannot do that.

I would point out that we're apparently on a question of whether ACCESS continues to provide information in various forms to the school system. Mr. Speaker, I have read the newspapers today as well, and I have a rather extensive response here, but I'll leave it to this limit: in the last two months there are approximately 141 titles of tapes, video, and audio which have been purchased solely for kindergarten to grade 12 purposes and that of the total component in the library of that kind of material or resource, almost 3,800 of 4,100 are strictly for the purposes and geared to the public school system. MR.

GIBEAULT: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Did the government not in fact get a commitment from ACCESS network at the time it was considering the satellite service that ACCESS Network would have to fund and support the satellite service without jeopardizing or taking the funding away from basic service to education? MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a misun­ derstanding about the satellite service. In fact, the satellite service is simply a recognition of the increasing technology and the capability of the satellite form of distribution of information.

It is using that more efficient and more effective process. MR. GIBEAULT: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In light of the fact of the recent closures, which are part of a string of earlier closures as well and that all but one of the educators and senior positions in ACCESS manage­ ment have left ACCESS in disgust of how this process has taken place, can the minister offer to commit himself to establishing a committee of educators in this province to

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 229 review the mandate of ACCESS network and to try and re-establish the credibility which it has now lost with the educators of this province? MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, we've just heard a represen­ tation of opinion, and I would be quite prepared to give my opinion on the matter, and it's in absolute total disa­ greement with the opinion of the hon. member.

I already pointed out last day in question period that in fact there is an advisory committee of educators who review the courses of study in the public school system and who develop a priorized list of materials which they would like to see developed. That is the major consideration of the board in selecting what items will be either manufactured, purchased, or reproduced via print or by dubbing. MR. GIBEAULT: A final supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

If in fact the government is going to insist on making these cutbacks and closures of the regional offices to support the distribution and utilization of the products that the minister just referred to, in fact what's the point of having things on the shelf that nobody knows how to use and where to use? Can the minister now tell us that if he's going to insist on that, what severance settlements and assistance in finding alternative employment is ACCESS going to make available to the affected employees? MR. YOUNG: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to the affected employees, notice was given in May that terminations would occur at the end of August. So lots of advanced notice was given, and in every situation of full-time employees, assist­ ance was offered to relocate or to assist with the location of alternative employment. Mr. Speaker, it is my view that these employees have been exceptionally well treated. With respect to the preface of the question, which had to do with the diminution of service, I repeat what I said last day under questioning.

That is that this action was taken because of changes which have occurred in the resource materials available to teachers through school boards and as a consequence of a survey of educators which showed that approximately three-quarters of them found the service had been originally valuable but because of a different configuration of resources available within school boards was no longer meeting a need, in the opinion of teachers. MR. JONSON: Mr.

Speaker, given that the delivery of educational and public service programs through the satellite network is certainly the way this type of communication is going, I wonder if the minister could advise the House as to whether or not there are any programs being planned or already in place to provide additional satellite service to the schools of the province in order that this type of communication will be available to them and to the students of the province. MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, the question posed by the hon. Member for Ponoka-Rimbey can be answered in two respects.

One is that the ACCESS network does provide assistance, assisted by the Department of Technology, Research, and Telecommunications, in the funding of dishes so that schools which were formerly in a location that could not make use of the broadcasts are now able to do so. That is one component of the answer, and the other is that we do have a continuing list of priorities of materials that educators wish to have produced. In fact, I know that at its next meeting the board will be making decisions on some of that list. Crude Oil Prices MR. PASHAK: Mr.

Speaker, I have a submission by PanCanadian Petroleum to the standing Senate committee on energy. My question is to the Minister of Energy. What action has the minister taken on behalf of Alberta producers to deal with the problem outlined in this report, which is that Canadian refineries are paying between $1 and $5 less for Canadian crude than the west Texas intermediate bench­ mark, which was the standard for the oil industry? DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, I have met with representatives from the industry in Calgary, including the author of that particular report.

There are some differences of opinion as to the degree of these perceived problems where the refineries were paying lower than what they possibly should for the crude. There are some indications that during the rapid fall in the price of crude, the posted refinery price in Canada was $1 to $3 below the benchmark of the west Texas intermediate. However, there's also evidence from other sources to indicate that taking into account delivery times that possibly may not be the case. It is my intention to further review the matter.

In fact, I have asked the Petroleum Marketing Commission to examine the situation and to see if they could provide me with some recommendations if that is in fact the case. MR. PASHAK: Mr. Speaker, there is an assertion in this report that the deregulated market is not working. A question to the minister: in his upcoming meeting with the federal counterpart, will the minister be going to bat for a fair price from the refineries for Canadian producers? DR. WEBBER: As the hon. member knows, Mr.

Speaker, we have an agreement with the Western Accord that we are very happy with in terms of having crude oil reflect the market price. As I indicated, this particular concern has been raised, and it's a matter of assessing the degree to which it had been a problem. When the price levelled off or came back up somewhat during the month of May, the opposite in fact occurred, where the posted refinery price in Canada was above the spot market price in the United States. So first of all, it's a matter of assessing whether there is indeed a problem.

When meeting with the minister on Friday or Saturday — I believe it's Saturday — it is my intention to discuss the state of the energy industry in this country in general. MR. PASHAK: A further supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon. member. The time for question period has expired. Is the Assembly willing to allow the Member for Calgary Forest Lawn one final supplementary? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. PASHAK: Mr. Speaker, the federal minister of energy informed the Commons today that she has never been asked to renegotiate the Western Accord.

In light of the desperate situation of the oil industry today, does the Minister of Energy intend to stand up for Albertans by opening the accord in his discussions this weekend?

230 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, in terms of who is standing up for Albertans, I would jar the hon. member's memory back a couple of years as to who was fighting for the elimination of the national energy program. MR. SPEAKER: Is the Assembly willing to allow two ministers the opportunity to give supplementary information to questions raised in earlier question periods as well as today? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. [The Minister of Economic Development and Trade rose] Speaker's Ruling MR.

SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon. minister, I think it's only correct at this stage that I respond to a point of order which was raised yesterday by the Member for Clover Bar with respect to the practice of ministers giving additional information at the end of question period and also perhaps the length of the answer supplied and then the lack of opportunity to respond. Having considered the matter over the course of the last 24 hours concerning the purported point of order raised by the hon.

Member for Clover Bar yesterday, the Chair has had an opportunity to consider the matter raised by the hon. member and rules that the matter constitutes a complaint rather than a point of order. The Chair notes that the consent of the House has been given to permit hon. ministers to respond at the conclusion of Oral Question Period to questions previously taken as notice and to supplement the response as previously given. The Chair also notes that this practice is consistent with previously established practice in this House of long standing.

Finally, the Chair undertakes to take up the hon. member's concern with House leaders at the next available opportunity. Grain Transportation (continued) MR. SHABEN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to supplement an answer provided by my colleague the Minister of Agriculture to a question placed by the Member for Westlock-Sturgeon with respect to the thousand hopper cars that were provided for Alberta farmers. The cars are put into service through an operating agreement with the two railways, CN and CP. They're allocated under rules set up by the Canadian Wheat Board and through the grain transportation agency.

The cars aren't permitted to move into eastern Canada. Under agree­ ment they serve the western Canadian grain basin; that is, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta. They're also not permitted to move into the United States for service. We have a monitoring system in place where we can access information as to the location of all these cars through an agreement with the railways. Social Services Staffing Levels MRS. OSTERMAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the hon.

Mem­ ber for Westlock-Sturgeon asked me to confirm that four of six investigators at the Fort Road district office of Alberta Social Services had resigned because of high caseloads and that the office caseload had risen to approximately 400, or 66 per worker. I'm happy to inform the Legislature that the hon. member's information is inaccurate. Four members of the child abuse investigation unit have indeed recently moved on.

Specifically, one was promoted internally, one took a promotion to the city of Edmonton's social services, one left for British Columbia because her family was located there, and one is now working part-time in private practice and part-time for the department. As to the caseloads, Mr. Speaker, April was the month with the highest child abuse caseload at the Fort Road district office. There were 95 cases amongst 6 workers, nowhere near the 400. If I might help the hon. member with mathematics, that works out to an average of 16 cases per worker, not the 66 he alleged.

As a result of inquiring about the hon. member's question, I would like to pass along that the workers at the Fort Road district office have expressed concerns that the hon. member thinks they are not capable of handling their work. I had expressed my views about the work of these very excellent professionals in my remarks last June 18, and I would hope the hon. member would do likewise. MR. TAYLOR: A point of privilege. MR. SPEAKER: What is the point of privilege? MR. TAYLOR: The point of privilege is that the question she answered was not the question I asked. She's talking about caseloads. MR.

SPEAKER: I'm sorry, but we're not debating this. The minister has supplemented information. We've had this ruling, as offered earlier. If you would like to deal with this issue further, if the speakers . . . Could I have the attention of the two members, please? [interjections] Excuse me. The Chair is willing to meet with the hon. leader of the Liberal Party and the hon. leader of the Representatives after we get a bit further on in the course of the afternoon so that you can raise your concerns on a face-to-face basis. The hon.

Minister of Agriculture would like to supplement some information on a point of order, I believe, or privilege. Farm Credit Stability Program (continued) MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member for Little Bow, who is a long-standing member of this Chamber and is well respected, was somewhat confused in the premise in which he put the question to me. I would like to refer to page 30 of Hansard of June 16 when he indicated that the associate minister and myself were contradicting each other. I shall put it on the record so the record is straight and so the hon. member is aware of it.

Clearly, there is no contradiction, because she indicated at that time to his question that the $2 billion under the farm credit stability program is in addition to the $1 billion already in long-term credit through ADC. Pork Industry MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I also have another point of order if I might, sir, as it relates to a correction in Hansard. MR. SPEAKER: Quickly please.

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 231 MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, in my endeavour to always have full disclosure to the Chamber and to hon. members, it came to my attention when I read Friday's Hansard that I erred in some percentage figures that I related to the House. In reviewing them on page 151 of June 20 — rather than going into my lengthy remarks — I indicated, "I should point out to him that only 3.8 percent is paid out to other provinces under this program." In reality, that figure is 8.2 percent, and we're delighted that this program is so worth while for our agricultural sector. MR.

SPEAKER: The Chair would like to comment to the Minister of Agriculture and thank him for correcting the record. But I would respectfully remind all members of the Assembly that if there are corrections to be made to the Blues or to Hansard, there is provision made for that to happen at an earlier opportunity. Again, with the newness of the House, perhaps we could all take that under advise­ ment. Speaker's Ruling MR. SPEAKER: Earlier this afternoon we had an exchange of comments between the Member for Westlock-Sturgeon and the Member for Calgary McKnight.

In that regard, we have some directions to the Assembly under Standing Orders, matters of privilege, which is

section 15(5): A member may always raise a question of privilege in the Assembly immediately after the words are uttered or the events occur that give rise to the question. Reading that, one then could concur with what transpired, where the Member for Calgary McKnight then rose in his place. However, for the second time in a number days, I would also refer members to Beauchesne, citation 370. Excuse me, that's 371. We flipped over a page here, but we'll find that one in just half a moment — 317. This is almost as difficult as trying to find your way through a hymn book.

It's in that citation, again, in those areas where we have it to occur at the end of question period. It's 369. AN. HON. MEMBER: We shall overcome. MR. SPEAKER: Together we shall indeed overcome. I make no apology to the House for the number of notes that have transpired in the course of the last half hour and the number of citations which have been sent to me. This indeed is it. A question of privilege or point of order raised during the oral Question Period ought to be taken up after the oral Question Period, unless the Speaker considers it to be an extremely grave matter.

With respect to what transpired, the comment was raised, the Blues were sent for, and various members have perused them. I regard this as really a matter of a dispute between two members as to what one of them said. That in turn falls within the provision of Beauchesne, citation 19(1). The Hansard records really do record what did indeed transpire. I trust that both hon. members will read the record together and then be able to see what indeed was spoken so that we don't get engaged in these matters of opinion being voiced. head: ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT MOTIONS 8. Moved by Mr. Crawford:

Be it resolved that when the Legislative Assembly rises at 1:00 p.m. on Friday, June 27, 1986, it shall stand adjourned until 2:30 p.m. on Thursday, July 3, 1986. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, Motion 108 will deal with the question of a short adjournment of the Assembly in regard to the July 1 holiday. [Motion carried] head: GOVERNMENT BILLS AND ORDERS (Third Reading) Bill 6 Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1986 MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker, I move third reading of Bill 6, the Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1986. [Motion carried; Bill 6 read a third time] head: CONSIDERATION OF HER HONOUR THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S SPEECH Moved by Mrs. Koper: That an humble address be presented to Her Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor as follows: To Her Honour the Honourable W. Helen Hunley.

Lieutenant Governor of the province of Alberta: We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly, now assembled, beg leave to thank Your Honour for the gracious speech Your Honour has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present session. [Adjourned debate June 24: Mr. Downey] MR. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure today to complete my remarks before a refreshed Assembly and in the light of a new day. Mr. Speaker, I believe the larger general issues of rural Alberta have been addressed in the throne speech.

I will not further belabour this Assembly by talking of the rather tenuous financial situation of Alberta farmers. This government is taking action. I do wish to note and appreciate the time and interest given to the problems by many members of this Assembly. Before I leave the subject of agriculture, Mr. Speaker, and to show this Assembly that this government is indeed blessed with vision and imagination and not bereft of ideas, as suggested by the opposition. I propose for discussion and comment the creation of an endowment for agricultural research.

About three years ago $300 million was set aside as an endowment for medical research. The success of this program is rapidly becoming evident, and there are indi­ cations that we could soon be an international leader in this field. I propose that we set up a similar endowment for agricultural research out of the Heritage Savings Trust Fund.

232 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 At this year's provincial agricultural service board con­ ference, we heard from a research scientist based at the Vegreville station. His field of expertise is the biological control of weeds and insect pests. They are presently working on a species of insect which feeds exclusively on Canada thistle, another species on toadflax, and a bacterial fungus which infects scentless chamomile. The results in all three areas are encouraging. He told us that what is required for success is not a large payroll and fancy facilities; what is required is a long-term commitment. Mr.

Speaker, an endowment would accomplish that com­ mitment. We must not fall behind. Ontario spent $38 million on agricultural research last year; $19 million went to the University of Guelph alone. By comparison, Alberta allocated about $6 million. Larry Milligan is the new dean of research at the University of Guelph. He says that no Canadian university is as well positioned to make a difference in agriculture as Guelph. He's right, and we have to change that. He spent 19 years at the University of Alberta before moving to his present post. It makes me wonder if budget was a contributing factor.

Considering Alberta's agricultural base, I suggest we make a long-term commitment as soon as possible. Alberta can become a world leader in agricultural research. Mr. Speaker, I hope all members of this Assembly will give this initiative serious consideration. Our hon. Minister of Agriculture has agreed to look at it, and I invite comments and input from all members. This initiative is most timely in view of recent cutbacks announced by the federal government with regard to funding of their provincial research stations, and Alberta farmers could be the first to profit from gains in productivity and efficiency.

I would like to conclude my remarks by commenting on two items which are coming up in debate almost daily and are represented by these words recurring in the presentations by opposition members: ideology and ordinary people. Ide­ ology, Mr. Speaker, is defined by Webster as "visionary theorizing; a systematic body of concepts" and, from its root, ideal, "a standard of perfection, beauty, or excel­ lence." Ideals are the fabric which bind our society together. I can think of no stronger foundation, Mr. Speaker, upon which to base the policies of this government. Finally, Mr.

Speaker, I echo the sentiments expressed a week and a day ago by the hon. Member for Sherwood Park. Albertans are exceptional people, each one extraor­ dinary and unique. I will not insult the people of Alberta by calling them ordinary. I suspect that the fact that the New Democrats continue to do so is part of the reason they continue to occupy the opposition benches. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. PASHAK: Mr. Speaker, I too would like to congratulate you on your appointment. As a native Calgarian, I can assure you that you have the respect of all the citizens of that fair city.

If I might, I'd like to provide just one example to the members of this Assembly as to why you're held in such high regard. You deserve credit for initiating a number of senior citizen projects in that city. On the day we first came to the Legislature, to be sworn in, we had a little reception after. I was very fortunate to be able to have in my company my aunt, who is 86 years of age and a citizen of the province since she was born. She was very delighted to be here. I mention her only because she lived for a number of years in a place that happened to be called Carter Place.

As I understand it, it's traditional for new members to provide some biographical details and family background. I believe that I share with many of the other members who have spoken to the throne speech the fact that I, too, am a fourth-generation Canadian. My grandparents on all sides came from Upper Canada, mostly from the Ottawa Valley region. My great, great grandfather was born in Bohemia in Czechoslovakia, actually settled in the Hamilton area, and joined a migration of peoples that's been described in Hansen and Brebner's classic study, Mingling of the Canadian & American Peoples.

Quite a few people, apparently, migrated out of Ontario. They came down around the Great Lakes and then came back up into Alberta as farming developed in that part of the region. I'm quite sure that many of you that have backgrounds in rural Alberta would share that pattern. In my particular case, my family stopped off in Michigan for a while. As my grandfather became a young man, he farmed for a while in Minnesota, then in the Dakotas. In the late 1890s the family moved to Alberta. My grandfather settled where the Highwood River runs into the Bow in the year 1899.

Those hon. members that have rural backgrounds, Mr. Speaker, will probably recognize that that was a rather important date in the farming history of this country. They developed a strain of wheat, the Red Fife variety, that could be harvested in the short grain growing season that exists on the Canadian prairie. The price of grain had started to rise on the Liverpool markets, and a flood of settlers began to pour into western Canada and into Alberta in particular.

Some came along the railroad lines, so in Alberta you can find strings of little communities that reflect the migration of people from particular European communities at a given point in time. You get a sequence of German communities along some spur lines, and further to the north in Alberta you might get a string of Ukrainian communities. But in any event, my grandfather tried farming in that area I mentioned, and a few years later they moved into a little town called De Winton, where he ran the livery stable and the general store, moving into Calgary in 1905.

My father was born that year, and 50 years later he was very pleased to be recognized with one of the golden anniversary plaques that were given to citizens resident in the province at the time that Alberta in fact became a province. I grew up in an inner city district of Calgary called the mission area. In growing up in that part of the world, I was very conscious of the fact that there were two towns that straddled Calgary on either side. There was Bowness to the west and a community called Forest Lawn to the east. Forest Lawn always seemed a little remote to me.

Bowness was a little closer because there was a streetcar line that went out there. There was a beautiful park. It contained a swimming pool; there were canoes and a merry- go-round, and it was a favourite place back in the days when Calgary was much less sophisticated and a much smaller centre than it is today. It was quite an event in the summertime for relatives to get on the streetcar, go to Bowness, and have big family picnics. So I had a little more identification with Bowness, growing up, than I had with Forest Lawn. Forest Lawn seemed to be more isolated.

Although it was closer geographically, it was on the other side of the river. Consequently, Forest Lawn seemed to be much more of a rural town than part of a major city like Calgary. That happens to be the riding I'm very pleased to represent. Forest Lawn has an interesting history. I did a modest amount of research in trying to look at that history. It

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 233 seems that two promoters came into the area just after the turn of the century. They bought up all the farmland between Chestermere Lake and Balzac, and then they carved that land into little 25-foot lots and tried to flog them on the market. In order to flog the land — this was, of course, bald prairie with very little geographical relief or attrac­ tiveness to it, but they wanted to market these lots at, I think, $300 per lot. So they conjured up the name Forest Lawn, which they borrowed from that famous Hollywood cemetery.

Of course, it conjures up an image of parks, gardens, delightful vistas, and all this sort of thing. Needless to say, they had a little difficulty selling the lots, so they developed a new scheme, which was to lay a set of railroad ties from the city of Calgary to Forest Lawn. They tried to convince people that a transportation system would link Calgary with Forest Lawn. They managed to sell a few lots on that basis. They pocketed the money and vanished from the scene — typical entrepreneurs, I guess.

Settlement did proceed apace, and I'd like to share with you a little of the flavour of that settlement, if I may, not by reading from this record but just by quoting some names. I hope that's within the rules. There are about a half dozen names here that I would like to see entered in the record: Jim Birden, an old man, a pioneer, who lived south of the Albert Park Store; Ted Prescot of Albert Park, who died at the age of 101; Frieman, an elderly Negro, who owned a team of mules and wagon and was said to have been a real worker and went around labouring for folks who wanted help.

Then there was Sam Kelsey, who was reeve of the Shepard municipality for a number of years; Dr. Crawford; Dr.

Shoebotham, the vet; Willie and Art Lewis, dark- skinned coloured people who gave their services in the First World War; Pring, an old name in Forest Lawn; Josh Wheater of Albert Park; George Washington and his missus, and daughter Donna Bunny, believed to be the first man to give us mail delivery by truck; homesteader Bill Tremain; Brahma Singh, the pig farmer south of Forest Lawn; Beatrice Moss, an old-timer of Forest Lawn; Charlie May, a promoter at Victoria Square; Meleck the Painter; Roy Zahara, an old-time well driller and race horse man; Ferguson, who lived on the Cary place; George Brown, a name found on an early map, possibly the first resident of Forest Lawn.

Then there was Dirty Sam, as we called him. Nobody knew his name; he was just a lone bachelor who lived all by himself south of Forest Lawn. He had a couple of old dogs, a horse and buggy. He was always around, just driving around with his old horse and buggy, followed by his dogs. From such roots a community grows. The picture to the point of the mid '50s is that of Forest Lawn as a typical rural Alberta town. It's short of paved streets, telephone systems, and even a water system. It became part of the city of Calgary in 1961.

Since that time it's been a home and sanctuary for refugees and those from all over the world who desire a better life. The principal of Forest Lawn high school told me that there are some 40 different ethnic communities represented in the school's population. This group includes Filipinos, Vietnamese, Ismaili Muslims, Sikhs, a number of Lebanese groups, Chileans, people from throughout the Caribbean region. In the 1981 federal census, of course, these people are all classified as "others." You've got Ukrainians. Dutch.

French, Irish, and so forth in the census, but all non-European immigrants get lumped as "others." In addition to that. Forest Lawn has the lowest family incomes in the city. It's also the repository for most of the city's public housing units. Some of these are fairly adequate, but most of them are rather shocking. In fact, some can actually be described as slums. Residents refer to one of these public housing units as "the chicken coops." The area has long been neglected by all levels of government, in common with the whole east side of the city.

There are almost 200,000 people that live in east Calgary, and there isn't a single postsecondary institution in that whole part of Calgary. The west side of the city has the university, the Southern Alberta Institute of Tech­ nology, the art college, and Mount Royal College. Post- secondary institutions are important to have in your community because they begin to change the aspirations of students and people who live in those areas. A second major problem for the area has to do with parks. The hon.

Member for Calgary Shaw mentioned how great the provincial government was in providing regional parks for the citizens of this province, but he should come out to the east side of the city of Calgary. There are very few small parks. There certainly isn't anything that resembles a major park in the area. Another major problem for Forest Lawn is that there was an industrial area there before the city population began to grow out that way. There are a lot of plants that are environmentally disruptive from the point of view of both their appearance and the noxious odours that are created by them.

I've asked for the co-operation of all members of this Assembly in trying to deal with these problems. For example, one of the things I did was to bring together the president of Mount Royal College and the chairman of the Calgary public school board to talk about putting some postsecondary classes into a new high school proposed for the northeast. I hope that those discussions haven't been jeopardized by premature questioning of the minister by one of the hon. members.

I've also met with the Minister of the Environment to begin to deal with the problems of these noxious odours that are being created, at least in one particular plant. I've been meeting with the Member for Calgary Millican to see what we could do about trying to create a major regional park facility in Forest Lawn for those residents. Mr. Speaker. I think there are areas in which we as members can co-operate to achieve better results for the citizens of this province. On the other hand, as a number of members have mentioned, there are ideological differences that separate us.

One, of course, would have to do with the oil industry. I now turn to that area, for which I am a critic. Let me begin by reviewing certain aspects of the much- detested national energy program, and let me set the record straight as far as the New Democratic Party is concerned. First of all, we did not support the most contentious aspects of that program. We did not support PIP grants, and we were opposed to the petroleum and gas revenue tax. Mr. Speaker, I brought some evidence to support these assertions. I've taken some of the extracts from the Hansard of Parliament.

I could have brought much more, but let me cite just three examples in support of my contention. From the Commons debates of 1981, our federal energy critic, Ian Waddell, stated: The Petroleum Administration Act is against our better traditions. Those traditions are based on co-operative federalism and on compromise. He went on to point out that the Liberal government refused to recognize these traditions and that federal policy was designed to promote eastern Canadian business interests as

234 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 opposed to interests of — and I don't mind using that word at all, as opposed to the hon. member on my left. It's not very often I have members to the left of me. It was designed to promote eastern Canadian business interests as opposed to the interests of ordinary Canadians. On March 2, 1981, Mr. Speaker, the record of the Commons debate shows that Mr. Waddell argued for three significant changes in the national energy policy: The first one was to change the 8 per cent wellhead tax . . . The second was to change the natural gas export tax.

The third one was to reduce or do away with the western development fund and [return that money to the provinces]. Finally, in May, 1981, the record shows that Mr. Waddell, in speaking for the party in the House of Commons, said: I should say right away that both the Conservative spokesman and myself do not think that the National Energy Program is working. It was supposed to help Canadian companies; but these little guys, these Canadian companies, are [still] going out of business. They still are, and they're doing so today.

He went on to explain why, and concluded by saying: To me it does not make sense, and that is one of the reasons we are opposing the National Energy Program. So let us not have any more nonsense from undistinguished Tory backbenchers about the New Democrats supporting the national energy program. What we believe is that Albertans are entitled to an economic rent for their resources, just as other provincial governments collect economic rent for resources found in their territories. Where we differ from members opposite is that we believe there should be a strong Canadian component in the oil industry.

In the mid-70s approximately 90 percent of the industry was for­ eign-owned and controlled. As you may recall, when prices first started their rise, most of the increase went into the pockets of a few multinational corporations, with resulting great flows of capital from this country and a tremendous strain on our balance of payments. If anyone cares to challenge me on this point, I shall return with more than ample evidence to sustain my contention.

But even though many aspects of the NEP were inequitable and caused a great loss of revenues to the province of Alberta, the problem of the NEP pales into insignificance compared with the results of the Western Accord. Would I ever love to play poker with the guys that negotiated that deal. What have we got as a result? A promise that oil companies could make and keep super profits in a deregulated environment. But how realistic is that promise, given

article 9 of the Western Accord?

Article 9 permits the federal authorities to intervene if the price of oil is disruptive to eastern industry. How long do you think it would take for the feds to intervene if the price of oil went much above $25 a barrel U.S.? They'd be there right now. Secondly, we lost our assured energy markets west of the Ontario valley line. Imported crude is now trickling and soon will be flooding into the Ontario market, replacing western crude. Thirdly, there was no hammer in the agree­ ment to protect the oil industry in a situation of falling prices. Fourth, no means were provided to recoup lost economic grants.

Fifth, deregulation has resulted in dis­ crimination against Alberta gas suppliers as, for example, in the latest round of National Energy Board recommend­ ations. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I might draw to your attention the bind that medium-sized Canadian producers are in as a result of the Western Accord and deregulation. Without refining and marketing capacities, they are at the mercy of a handful of firms, including Petro-Canada. You probably recall that Petro-Canada has been instructed not to act as a Canadian company but just to act as an other rapacious multinational.

These companies have the ability to refine and market crude, so they're protected against low crude prices. But because of deregulation, these firms are only paying pro­ ducers on the basis of spot-market prices rather than on the former standard: the posted price for west Texas inter­ mediate crude. This has meant a loss of up to $5 a barrel for Canadian producers, or a total sum to governments and producers over the first four months of this year of some $400 million, so it was some big deal that was negotiated. Mr.

Speaker, it's rather as if we got those easterners out of the living room onto the porch, then out of the porch and out of the front yard and down the road. We went back into our living room to celebrate and discovered that those easterners walked off with the title to the house, the farm, the bam, and everything else we own. What does the Tory government do? You've heard the Energy minister answer questions in this Assembly: "We're studying the issue; we're going to postpone action." Above all, they lay the blame on others. Mr. Speaker, ordinary Albertans aren't fooled.

They want serious, forthright, ener­ getic action to solve the problems of the day. In my party, Mr. Speaker, we have advanced solutions. We would force those eastern guys back to the table. We would remind them that if they want favours when prices rise, as prices surely must, they'd better be fair now. Otherwise, I'm afraid for this country. The forces of sep­ aratism and greed came together not too long ago in this province, and they were contained. But without a fair response from the government of Canada now and leadership by Alberta now, it may not be possible to contain those forces the next time around.

I plead with this government to act now before it's too late. MR. BRASSARD: Mr. Speaker, since this is my first opportunity to address this august body on such a person­ alized basis, I would like to add my congratulations to those already extended by my colleagues: first, on your election success and, secondly, on your appointment as Speaker of this House. I look forward to your direction and assistance in the months to come as you guide new members, such as myself, through the intricacies of proper parliamentary procedure.

May I also take this opportunity to thank Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor of this province for her delivery of a very excellent Speech from the Throne which opened this First Session of the 21st Legislature, a speech which I feel addressed our current short-term needs together with our long-term growth and development goals: a very complex and demanding challenge in these radically changing times. It is with a great deal of pride and humility that I stand here today, Mr. Speaker, representing the people of Olds- Didsbury to my government. It is my intention to do so to the very best of my ability.

Like many of the other members, I too feel that the people of my constituency are among the finest of all the people in our great province, and people representation is what this governmental process is all about. It is interesting to note the very subtle but significant changes which occur in one's priority considerations once the decision to accept the challenge of public office is made. I well recall the initial discussions with my family, a caucus

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 235 of nine. The agenda was of a very personal and immediate nature. As it expanded to include our friends and eventually our local political party, the responsibilities expanded as well. As I stand here before you, I no longer perceive Alberta as 255,000 square miles of landmass, beautiful and productive though it may be. I recognize it as 2,345,000 people who make up something more diverse, more com­ plicated, more exciting than any other province in Canada, and I represent every single one of them, Mr. Speaker, including even you.

I thank God daily for this awesome but challenging opportunity. As a matter of personal record, my youngest daughter Alison gave birth to our first grandchild over this past weekend, and my representative responsibilities have already increased by one. One of the principal reasons that I relate so well to Her Honour's speech, Mr. Speaker, is due to its diversified thrust into almost every corner of my con­ stituency. In some way every single one of the 20,640 residents — pardon me, 20,641 residents — who live in our particular portion of this beautiful province is directly affected by this speech.

Perhaps more than many others, the constituency of Olds- Didsbury significantly represents the diversification which is present in this province of ours. Mr.

Speaker, we have feedlots capable of handling — and doing so regularly — over 5,000 head of cattle, using the very latest equipment and regulated by a computerized system which at any given hour can identify the specific feed mix given to each pen, the anticipated weight gain per animal, the net cost involve­ ment per animal, the anticipated retail value based on the latest marketing price and, finally, the anticipated ideal shipping date based on the most current and factual infor­ mation possible.

The wood chips that are purchased from a local lumber mill and used for bedding of these animals proved so successful that a separate operation has now been established to bag and ship this commodity all over the world. Likewise, we have capitalized on the need for high-protein alfalfa, and we have at least two operations that ship bagged alfalfa all over the world also. As a young boy, Mr. Speaker, I used to take turns cleaning and maintaining a chicken coop.

I can honestly say that it did absolutely nothing to prepare me for the last chicken coop that I visited while campaigning, where they collect in excess of 1,000 dozen eggs every day. We have many of the most modern farrow-to-finish hog operations in our area, and this particular industry's recent labour difficulty certainly impacted very directly on our particular riding. The dairy industry is also well represented in the Olds-Didsbury constituency, and there appears to be a current state of concern with the change of ownership of one of the major retailers of their products.

I am reassured by our Agriculture minister's awareness of and confidence in this transaction. Our area has a mixture of bush and grassland which lends itself particularly well to the finest ranching operations in Alberta. Some of the annual bull sales attract buyers from literally all over the world. Similarly, some of our residents offer very successful horse ranches raising quarter horses, thoroughbreds, Morgans, Arabians, and Appaloosas, as well as Clydesdales and Percherons.

Although the production of cereal grains and feed crops dominates our constituency — and I might add at this point that agriculture in general is the largest single employer in our riding — we are also very well represented in the exploration, production, and development phases of the important oil and gas industry. Both of these industries have received significant attention and consideration in the throne speech, and it is indeed encouraging to note the position of priority which our government has assigned and continues to address in their deliberations. We also boast many sawmill operations, Mr.

Speaker, in not only the scenic and heavily forested areas surrounding Water Valley but also in the beautiful and mountainous foothills of Bearberry, directly west of the town of Sundre, one of six towns in our constituency with a population of 1,800. There are also several very successful trapping operations in this general area, as well as a fox farm with markets as far away as Japan. We have a firm located in Didsbury which manufactures farm equipment and is a producer of the well-recognized Jiffy bale handler, Hy-dump, and other related equipment.

We have the largest privately owned soil analysis lab in Canada located in Crossfield, another one of our towns. In Olds we also boast one of Canada's largest playground equipment manufacturers, Childspace Manufacturing. Not only is it financially successful, but over 50 percent of its employees are handicapped to varying degrees. It is with a great deal of pride that I refer to this particular operation, Mr. Speaker, having had the distinct privilege of serving on the board of directors, helping these people help them­ selves. Perhaps this is a good time to talk about a particular school in our area, Mr.

Speaker. It's called Horizon school and was first perceived by a couple who migrated to our area approximately 20 years ago. In 1969 they saw the need for a vocational education for the mentally disabled, long before such a need was universally recognized by the community at large. A $500 donation was their first con­ tribution and seemed like a great deal of money at the time. They started in a tiny school house, and in 1971 there were eight students, with a staff of one and a half people. In '72 there were 15 students, and 20 the following year.

Today there are 80 students with 12 teachers in the existing Horizon school, which was constructed in 1978. In total, there are 48 workers involved in this highly successful operation.

From this school grew an instructional and com­ mercial ceramics operation, a supervised housing program, a vocational education activity centre, the establishment of Childspace Manufacturing, with this year's projected sales in excess of $1 million, a bottle depot which also houses a federally sponsored vocational training centre, and an association which was originally established to operate a tiny school and now has an annual operating budget of over $1 million: a true success story recognized throughout Alberta for its calibre and accomplishments. Another institution which I must tell you about, Mr.

Speaker, is Olds College, the only truly exclusively agri­ cultural college left in Alberta, with 1.000 students and a staff in excess of 230. They graduate over 3,000 continuing education students each year as well. This institution offers a full range of agriculture diploma programs, with full transfer arrangements to universities, and has the largest demonstration farm of its kind in teaching, with a full range of livestock on 1,200 acres of land.

This year this 73-year- old institution hosted the Canadian plowing match, followed by the very prestigious 33rd world plowing match with 25 countries participating: a truly memorable event. There is a great deal of heritage involved in our con­ stituency, Mr. Speaker, and many of the old, original schoolhouses have been converted into community halls. One such schoolhouse was finally replaced last month in

236 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 my own community of Westcott, after having served the area well since 1902. Speaking of heritage, one of the greatest pleasures of the entire election campaign was experienced while visiting the senior citizens' lodges and listening to the many stories of just how this great country of ours got to be so great. Our government's commitment to senior citizens is indeed timely, since we desperately need a new lodge in Carstairs. Yes, Mr. Speaker, another one of those six towns I spoke of earlier. We are also blessed with a great many artists and authors in our area.

The well-recognized Robert Fisher wildlife paintings have their origin in his studio in Olds, the largest town in our constituency. Miss Marilyn Halverson, who has just released her latest book Cowboys Don't Cry, shares the literary honours with Mrs. Janette Oke, who has pub­ lished that popular Love Comes Softly series and others which have sold in excess of two million copies. Last weekend I had the distinct pleasure of riding in the Gary Logan memorial rodeo parade, a rodeo which boasts some of the very finest participants in the rodeo circuit.

Each of our towns has a similar type of weekend whose activity contributes to a very healthy and promising tourist industry in our area. Our government's commitment to this steadily increasing and mutually beneficial industry will have a very significant effect on our area. We already boast one of the most challenging white water canoe and kayak courses in Canada, and our recently completed biathlon course is recognized as one of the finest in Alberta. Our six communities jointly hosted the 1983 Summer Games, the first time they had ever been held in rural settings. I could go on, Mr.

Speaker, but suffice it to say that I am very proud to represent the constituency of Olds-Didsbury to you today. I haven't really spoken very much of our problems, and we do have them, just the same as everyone else. But I am reminded of Churchill, who said that there is no mysterious cycle in human events; to some generations much is given, of other generations much is expected. Unlike many of the opposition members, Mr. Speaker, I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers, but I think if we all work together, we can find them. The word "crisis" in Japanese is written with two symbols.

Translated into English, one means "danger" and the other means "opportunity." If we as members of this Legislative Assem­ bly collectively approach our problems in a sincere, con­ structive, and responsible manner with true respect for each other's position and considerations, I'm sure that we, too, can fulfill our role of representation by the people, for the people, regardless of how they voted or who they happened to elect. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. HAWKESWORTH: Mr. Speaker, may I add my congratulations to those offered to you by my colleagues throughout this Assembly.

It may seem a customary way for members to begin their inaugural speeches, but I hope you will recognize that for every one of us, it is most certainly more than customary: it is heartfelt. You bring honour and good humour to the position of Speaker which you now occupy, and I wish you well in this next stage of your parliamentary career. May I also take this opportunity to thank Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor for the words she shared with the members of the New Democratic caucus at our swearing- in on May 29. They were well considered and appropriate comments, and I would like to thank her publicly for them.

Mr. Speaker, it is a humbling experience to have the honour and the special privilege to be able to rise and address this Assembly today. It is no light matter to have been chosen in a democratic election to speak and act on behalf of many thousands of people, in my case those living in Calgary Mountain View. To be chosen to represent their interests, understand their needs, help solve their problems, and act and speak in their place in this Assembly is a very special honour and responsibility.

It is also a tremendous privilege and thrill for me to be able to take my place in this Assembly with 15 of my colleagues from the New Democratic Party. Few are ever able to experience the opportunity to serve the public as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta. Even fewer are ever privileged to be part of a truly historic event in the life of a province, which is what the increase in our standings from two to 16 members in this Assembly rep­ resents.

I am proud to say that I stand with the real risk- takers in this House, the ones who ran for the New Democrats in the May 8 provincial election to bring democ­ racy back to Alberta. As part of that increased New Democratic representation, my colleague from Forest Lawn and I are the first New Democrats from Calgary ever elected members in this Assembly, and I know we're only the first of many that are going to be elected from that city in years to come. That's another reason for me to feel especially proud of our accomplishments as a party over the past few years and in the past few months.

And I want to acknowledge the excellent work and leadership provided by our leader, the hon. Leader of the Opposition, Ray Martin. Mr. Speaker, all members have driven down streets and walked through shopping centres and seen an advertisement for one-hour martinizing. Maybe they've wondered what it was. I finally learned what it is: it's how I would describe our leader taking the government to the cleaners over its Speech from the Throne. Mr.

Speaker, Calgary was represented in this Assembly from 1944 to 1952 by a member for the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, the CCF, which, as you know, was the forerunner of the New Democratic party. That member was Mr. Aylmer Liesemer. After returning from his service in the war, the former city council alderman stood for election and served this Assembly and the people of Calgary with distinction for two terms. I'm pleased to be able to report to members in this Assembly that he is hale and healthy. He is entering his eighth decade, and he still lives in his home in Calgary Mountain View.

Out of curiosity I did a quick review of press clippings in the Legislature Library on his career in this Assembly, and I thought I'd briefly share some of them with members here in the Assembly this afternoon. He was an advocate for improved workmen's compensation, including a proposal raising the monthly allowance for orphaned or dependent children to $25 a month; this was in 1948. He was one of the very first to push for the establishment of a University of Alberta branch in Calgary and over the years pushed hard for an expanded role and greater funding for that facility.

While he represented an urban riding, he also worked hard for rural Alberta. He helped push for an agricultural college in southern Alberta. He was a strong advocate for general rural electrification. At one time, he had this Assembly pass a resolution to adjust the price of hogs, the price structure of feed grains, and provide such

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 237 incentive to farmers as will maintain and stabilize hog production. He was an early and strong supporter of publicly funded medical care and was able to get unanimous approval in 1945 for a resolution calling on the government to pay all medical, dental, optical, hospital, and funeral expenses of old-age pensioners and recipients of mother's allowance. Increasing Alberta's minimum wage from 60 cents to 65 cents an hour and pushing for a 40-hour work week were also measures he supported. Mr.

Speaker, it's hard to believe that 40 years have passed since he last served in this Assembly. It meant a great deal to me to have Mr. Liesemer's active support and encouragement during the election period. Our party carries on a long and important tradition of social justice, a tradition that has carried on the work for fairness and equality in this province. He gave a very personal expression to that tradition and reminded me that I am only part of a generation that picks up from what is left to us by another, just as others will come to pick up on the work we leave for them. It is perhaps appropriate, Mr.

Speaker, that the 21st Legislature, an historic Legislature, should be convened in June. The month of June is traditionally a time when young people make their way to churches and share some words with each other that will shape the rest of their lives. They are the same words that we heard and spoke ourselves this last spring during the provincial election. The words I refer to are those crucial words "I promise." For all who attend those weddings, their hope for those young people is that those words "I promise" are spoken with honesty, truth, sincerity, and conviction.

As citizens, when we hear those words spoken by those who would be our elected repre­ sentatives, our hope is also that they are spoken with honesty, sincerity, and conviction. I promise; we live by promises, and to the extent that we can rely on those promises, we have a society that is peaceful, productive, and just. But in talking with people, I detect at times a real cynicism about those in political life. It centres around not only promises which appear to have been made flippantly and then broken but, more importantly, it centres on things that are done which had never been promised.

This government did not campaign on a change to the Eastern Slopes policy, yet it occurred without public hearings in 1984. They did not campaign on selling Crown land in the Eastern Slopes region, and yet they did it. Fortunately, they recognized one thing from the election: that that policy is an unpopular one. A tem­ porary freeze on land sales has been implemented. To the extent that it is a step toward a permanent freeze, it is a good step. My point is that here are two policy decisions made without receiving a mandate or without initially seeking public input.

The federal government has similarly entered into secret negotiations with the Americans over what may amount to economic union with the United States. They never sought a mandate from the public for such a fundamental policy decision and direction. For our part, the Alberta New Democrats circulated an election brochure entitled Make It Happen, which went into some considerable detail about the programs and issues important to our party in this province. Some were critical of the brochure, in that it contained too much material for the average voter and, for that reason, was not effective.

But in my view, we had a responsibility to place before Albertans as comprehensive and as positive a platform as we could. If there are any doubts as to its effectiveness, I would remind you that there are now 16 New Democrats in this Assembly where before there were only two. Our party received a vote of confidence in a mandate from 30 percent of Alberta's voters. The point I want to stress with you today is this: based on a track record of governments in this province and in this country, the issues which become the focus of election campaigns may very quickly disappear after the votes are counted.

They are invariably replaced by issues and concerns which may never have been envisioned or debated in the course of an election campaign. The question then becomes: what should the public reasonably expect from their elected representatives once all the ballots are counted? I want to take the opportunity presented by the debate on the Speech from the Throne to talk about some promises I made to myself and to my constituents in entering this past election. Conventional wisdom seems to hold that to succeed in politics, you ought to promise as little as possible.

I've never wanted to be just any other politician, and my party has never wanted to be just any other political party. My first promise is this: I will work for a government that is more open and accessible to its citizens. I look at my experience at city hall in Calgary, and I know from that that government is big. The provincial government is so much bigger than that in the city of Calgary. It is big business. It is big bureaucracy. For most citizens it is distant, remote, unfeeling, and it certainly is intimidating. How do you influence it? How do you move it? How do you make it listen or make it care?

I wanted to make city hall more accessible to ordinary citizens who often felt and appeared out of place in the political arena. In my view, that situation, if allowed to continue over time, spells the death knell of our democratic institutions. So some time ago I began giving workshops to people in that city on how to lobby effectively, to make your point more effective as a citizen. One of the most satisfying things I've ever done is to be able to watch graduates of these sessions presenting their concerns to city hall with real confidence and competence.

But my objective is not to make government accessible only for the sake of being accessible. Surely it's to help people make their government perform better. It's to build a society that involves people, that enables them to partic­ ipate, to take greater responsibility for their own lives and actions. But people can't participate if all doors are kept closed to their participation. Structures also have to change. I believe, Mr.

Speaker, that people in every corner of Alberta, regardless of their partisan, political background, recognize that democracy depends on a system of checks and balances, that unless there's a system of accountability, there cannot be the necessary openness for democracy to function properly. The people of this province have decided that checks and balances on government are necessary, and they have chosen 16 of our party to ensure greater account­ ability of government, to make for greater public debate and participation.

To make government more open, I will work during my time in this Legislature with my colleagues to help achieve that objective. I promise to work. Mr. Speaker, for a more democratic economy. In my view, the purpose of an economy is to provide people with the means to provide for themselves. When an economy can't do it, something is wrong that has to be fixed. Someone earlier in the debate referred to Manitoba. Well. I want to talk about Manitoba. The New Democrats in Manitoba believe, as we believe, that high unemployment is our number one problem. Our number one priority as a

238 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 party, then, is job creation. The Speech from the Throne referred to this being the biggest job-creation budget ever undertaken in the history of Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I might concede that it may be the most expensive attempt this government has ever undertaken, and it may be well inten- tioned.

But I would respectfully point out that there are no job targets outlined in this budget, there is no attempt to tie any of this spending directly to job creation, and there is no promise or guarantee that direct jobs at decent wages will be created by the programs contained in that speech and in the budget. It may be an expensive job-creation initiative, Mr. Speaker; it is by no means carrying a guarantee that it will be an effective job-creation initiative. Let's look at what a social democratic government could do if given a chance. I want to look at the experience in Manitoba.

According to the Manitoba government's Jobs Fund annual report entitled Working With Manitobans, for its second fiscal year, 1984-85, these figures are found: total capital investment in that province for the years 1982 to 1985 was three times higher than the previous four-year period under the Conservative government in that province; the average annual growth rate for those three years was eight times that experienced in Canada as a whole; in this document investment intentions in 1985 were projected to be a healthy $2.7 billion.

In case you might question the veracity of Premier Paw- ley's word, I went to Statistics Canada to update the experience in Manitoba in 1985. In reviewing those figures, in fact investment in Manitoba was $2.85 billion in 1985. On a percentage basis, private investment in 1985 increased 13 percent in that province over 1984. Compare that to Alberta's experience in the same year, an increase of only 10.9 percent in private investment. And remember, 1985 has been touted as the year Alberta was climbing out of the recession. The increase in private investment on a percentage basis was higher in Manitoba.

Public investment in Manitoba increased 11.7 percent over 1984; in Alberta it decreased by 4.2 percent. How about the unemployment rate? In May 1986 the unadjusted rate in Manitoba was 7.8 percent; in Alberta it was 10.7 percent. Throughout 1985 the average monthly unemployment rate in Manitoba was 7.9 percent; Alberta averaged 11 percent. No one in Manitoba considers 7 percent acceptable, but considering the structural unemployment in the Canadian economy as a whole, they've obviously done better than we have in Alberta.

The Conference Board — and I'm looking at the most conservative figures I could find in case anything I've presented to you still doesn't persuade you — has projected that the growth rate for 1986 and 1987 sees Alberta growing at a bare 2 percent over those two years. In Manitoba they're projecting 5.4 percent growth, two and a half times that of the projected Alberta rate. The Conference Board, in reflecting on Manitoba's growth rate over the last two years, called it exceptional. Let's talk about the deficit in Manitoba in 1986 as projected at $450 million.

This is in a province with a population approximately one-half that of Alberta's. Compare their half- billion-dollar deficit to the $2.5 billion deficit projected for this province in 1986. How did Premier Pawley and the New Democrats create this economic minimiracle in a province that has nowhere near the natural resource wealth of Alberta? The first thing they did very shortly after taking office was to decide that they wanted to foster permanent, long-term economic growth and job creation.

They called a conference with leaders from business, labour, and government to help the province develop an economic strategy. They took steps to make equity capital available to Manitoba businessmen to start new ventures. They brought in programs of support to small business, much along the incubator programs referred to last Friday in debate by the hon. Member for Athabasca- Lac La Biche, and they established a job fund, Mr. Speaker, to encourage new job creation. In 1983 more than 16,000 new jobs were created in Manitoba by this fund.

By the way, I think it's worth pointing out that the Manitoba employees' association assisted in the establishment of this fund by accepting deferred salary increases in order to help the government assemble some of the funds necessary for this initiative. Just as another aside, Mr. Speaker, Manitoba experienced last year on a per capita basis the smallest number of workdays lost in strikes or lockouts. The reason is that at least that government tries in a co-operative way to find solutions early in the labour dispute process.

The government of Manitoba was able to create this success story with the active support of labour and the private sector and with the participation of the federal and municipal levels of government. At the time the economy was working well, the government was also passing legislative measures on workers' rights, health care, and housing — measures you would expect from a party that puts a high priority on the needs and concerns of ordinary Canadians. What can we in Alberta learn from this experience, Mr. Speaker?

For the sake of the people we serve in this Assembly, it is my view that it is important we learn from it. The Manitoba experience proves that when directed in the interests of ordinary people in this province, job creation and economic programs can help get the job done. When ordinary people are working, they have money in their pockets, and they spend that money in Main Street Alberta and in downtown Alberta. They renovate homes, buy new equipment, buy clothes for their kids, treat themselves to a dinner out. They take a trip to Banff, Jasper, or Drum- heller. They spend that money, and it supports business.

Business grows and thrives, which helps explain why busi­ ness is thriving in Manitoba. Alberta New Democrats believe job creation must be our number one priority, and those funds must be directly tied to the creation of direct jobs, which brings me, Mr. Speaker, to the matter of tax incentives. The government of Alberta and the federal government have pursued a strategy of giving tax breaks to the corporate sector in the hope that this will lead to job creation. For our part, we believe that tax breaks to the private sector must be based on performance.

We should eliminate tax expenditures which never result in new investment or new jobs. New Democrats would say: when you make the investment or when you create the job in Alberta, then you get the break or the benefit from the public purse. There must be accountability for the use of public funds. Gone should be the day when tax dollars are used as an incentive to create jobs in California. Gone should be the day when tax write-off schemes are abused at the expense of the taxpayer, such as the scientific research tax credit program which the federal government was recently forced to abandon. Mr. Speaker.

I promise to take a practical, progressive, and pragmatic page from the book of the Manitoba government and use it towards making the economy work in a more democratic way for all Albertans. [Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 239 Mr. Speaker, my third promise is to work for a fairer, more just society. I want to see this province build on its strengths, its people. We all do.

It's an objective we all share: to have a place where everyone can provide for their families with dignity; where a fair day's work will bring a fair day's wage; where quality education and opportunities are available to all Alberta children, regardless of the economic circumstances in their home environment; where their needs are understood; where the care they receive, whether it be inside the home or outside, is of a caring and loving nature.

I want a society where people live in security under the rule of law fairly and justly administered, where double standards or two sets of rules, depending on your position or standing in society, no longer exist. I want decent health care made available without obstacle or restriction. I want a society where people are valued for being people, not valued simply by what they produce or how much they earn. I want a society which recognizes that the true value of labour is in its ability to give expression and meaning to the human soul.

It is more than a simple commodity which can be reduced to the mechanical computations of some adding machine. There is dignity to work, which must be reflected in the labour laws of this province. I believe we are stewards for our children and our children's children. My fourth promise to myself and to you is to try and view the world through their eyes.

Every time I drive to the west of Calgary, I am in awe at the unspoiled beauty of the national parks in the Rocky Moun­ tains, of the foothills and the Eastern Slopes, and I say to myself a word of thanks for the people I have never met or ever known who had the vision to create our parks and preserve that beauty for our enjoyment. It is a gift from the past, and I believe we all have the responsibility to present that same gift unspoiled to the future. Mr. Speaker, as I review this list with you, you will understand why my fifth promise is that I cannot do this all by myself.

That's why God made friends — to provide us with the people and the means to work together to solve our problems. My election came with the help of many hundreds of people who share the same vision of Alberta as I do, who have made the same promises to themselves as I have made. In full knowledge of the important responsibility on my shoulders, Mr.

Speaker, I conclude with the words of Alexander Pope, words that serve for me as a personal motto whatever time I am able to serve in this Chamber: Statesman, yet friend to truth! of soul sincere, In action faithful, and in honour clear; Who broke no promise, serv'd no private end, Who gain'd no title, and who lost no friend. May God give me the strength and courage to fulfill this commitment to the best of my ability. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MRS. CRIPPS: Mr. Speaker, it's my privilege to speak this afternoon to the throne speech.

First, I'd like to welcome all of the new members to the Assembly and wish them well in the next four years. AN HON. MEMBER: Not too well. MRS. CRIPPS: All right, not too well. Mr. Speaker, I'm really privileged to welcome you as Deputy Speaker to the House and to say to the Speaker of the Assembly that I know how seriously he takes his responsibility and that he will guide us wisely. I know that the Member for Lethbridge West brings a rare wit and appreciation of the Legislature to his new post.

I'd also like to congratulate the Member for Calgary Foothills for moving the speech and the Member for Ponoka-Rimbey on seconding it. Mr. Speaker, I intend to speak on the Alberta Speech from the Throne this afternoon, not the Manitoba one. My constituents wish to thank the Premier for the honour bestowed upon them by the appointment of an Associate Minister of Agriculture from their constituency.

I believe the decision to appoint a lady to Agriculture is an example of this government's commitment to ensure that the many contributions of women — to the family, the community, the province, and this country — are recognized. The appointment is also illustrative of the government's recog­ nition of the partnership in agriculture. Many farms in this province are successful because of the contributions of both partners who work at the business of farming. MR. TAYLOR: But the woman can't borrow. MRS. CRIPPS: Certainly she can borrow. But he can't if she does.

Farm women are proud to be associated with farming and rural life. At the same time, they want to be recognized for what they are: members of a complex, capital-intensive, high-pressure industry vital to the provincial and national economy and to our way of life. The fact is that unless there is a hired man, few farms would prosper and operate efficiently without the help and support of both partners. Each of you in the Assembly will know, as I do, that there's somebody back home doing the work. The Member for Lethbridge West and other members mentioned the high divorce rate in their speeches. Mr.

Speaker, agriculture has an excellent record there also. There's a Farming for the Future University of Alberta study which shows that there are fewer divorces among farm families. This study was to find out why. It reminds me of the lady who was helping combine with her husband and had to haul a load of grain in, as many of us have had to do. The auger wouldn't start, and then she had to change grain bins. By the time she got back to the field, her husband was a little upset because he had to stop combining to wait for the truck. Needless to say, they had a little bit of conversation, and I guess it was heated.

A little later a friend stopped by from town. The wife was still steaming, and her friend said, "Have you ever con­ sidered divorce?" The wife said, "No. Murder, yes, but divorce, no." Seriously, women want to be recognized for the full partners that they are, in marriage, agriculture, and business. Women must also be recognized for themselves — inde­ pendent, capable, and ambitious. I know that the government has a commitment to ensuring that our daughters have the same opportunities as our sons. Mr.

Speaker, the decision to have an Associate Minister of Agriculture also recognizes another partnership, the part­ nership which exists between the provincial and the federal government in supporting agriculture and developing mar­ kets. I hope that I can bring a grass-roots feeling to this partnership, and I know that the minister will bring a wealth of knowledge of the federal government. I'm confident that

240 ALBERTA HANSARD June 25, 1986 this partnership will benefit agriculture. It generally takes two whole people to make a partnership. MR. TAYLOR: But if they get married, they can't borrow. MRS. CRIPPS: That's democracy. Mr. Speaker, I'm taking some licence with my speech today because I want to place special emphasis on agriculture. All of society must become aware of the importance of agriculture. We have a story to be told, and we have to tell it. We have to be proud of our achievements and our accomplishments. In Canada we spend 17 percent of our disposable income after taxes for food.

In Japan and England it's about 25 percent. In Russia it's 53 percent. In some parts of Asia it's 80 percent. When you're spending 50 to 80 percent of your income after taxes for food, you don't have much left for the second car, the better house, the colour television, or a nicer vacation, all of those things which the average citizen has come to expect. We have to tell the people of Alberta and North America that the reason they can have a vacation, a second car, a colour television, and a house is because of, not in spite of, the price of food.

We ought to tell the big companies of this country that the reason they can sell their products is that agriculture is so efficient. Agriculture is important to Alberta. The Alberta farmers not only produce a high-quality product in great quantity, but it's there in great variety and in packaged form. By the way, Mr. Speaker, the packaging is the cost in many cases in agriculture. The myth that the consumer price index would have us believe, that our buying power is slipping, is just that — a myth. That simply is not true for the average worker.

We've got to realize that everyone isn't an average worker and that it costs just as much to buy food whether you're earning $3.85 an hour or $17.85 an hour, so there's a vast difference. In Tokyo it takes 10 and a half hours of work to earn enough money to buy a pound of sirloin. In London it takes an hour and a half. In Alberta it takes 22 minutes. Consumers have to understand that agriculture is efficient and effective. I get really uptight when I see the consumers' representative talking about the price of bread going up by 30 percent because the price of a bushel of wheat may go from $7 to $10.

The fact of the matter is that there are 67 loaves of bread in a bushel of wheat, so the real cost is 6.7 cents per loaf at $7. The return to the farmer on a loaf of bread is one slice. The trinket in cornflakes costs more than the corn. The label on a can of peas costs more than the peas in the can. Quite frankly, if the farmer gave away the wheat, the corn, and the peas, it would make very little difference to the cost of the consumer product. So we can be justifiably proud of the role and job we do in agriculture. Mr. Speaker, I'm particularly interested in marketing and value-added processing.

It's time we stopped virgin exports and looked seriously at the value added. Who is manufac­ turing? Who is processing? Who is marketing? I always look at the butter and sugar and jams in restaurants. Usually I'm very angry when I notice the point of processing. It's time to place emphasis on Alberta value-added processing. Better Buy Alberta is a way to support jobs in Alberta. Everyone agrees that farm finance is one of the most serious problems in agriculture. I've made a number of speeches in the House talking about the impossibility of making effective management decisions with fluctuating inter­ est rates.

The Premier's announcement of the 9 percent fixed interest Alberta farm credit stability program means that management decisions can be made with the knowledge that the main input cost, interest, will not escalate. Agriculture and forestry are renewable resources and need emphasis on long-range planning and development if they are to reach their full potential. Mr. Speaker, we are committed to placing real emphasis on these industries. Upgrading and processing of our agriculture and forestry products must be, and is, a priority to stabilize the industry and create new jobs and vitality.

As I said earlier, the cost/price squeeze in agriculture is real. Two of the major input costs, fuel and financing, have been addressed by this government. I want to re-emphasize that it's the hope that the $2 billion at 9 percent will be used to stabilize farm interest by rolling over many of the demand loans into fixed rate, long-term loans, not as the Member for Little Bow was trying to insinuate earlier in the question period. Farmers need to know the bottom line. Crop insurance; red meat stabilization, western grain sta­ bilization, and disaster insurance are in place and ready to kick in.

The problem that has been emphasized, of course, is input costs. The real solution to the problem would be a fair price for the product and long-term markets. We know all the problems. We're not sure of all the answers, but we're working on them, you can be assured. Given the government commitment to excellent programs to assure the bottom line, farmers have to make judgment decisions which will allow them to enjoy stability in the marketplace. Mr.

Speaker, I believe the new department of forestry is a major step in giving forestry the emphasis that it needs to ensure the development of the potential along with proper management and reforestation. The development of the sturdy board plant in Drayton Valley gives diversification to that community, and believe me, we needed diversification. Mr. Speaker, a healthy energy industry is vital. We also need companies that pay their bills. A healthy energy industry is vital to the Drayton Valley constituency.

I'm only too well aware of the number of jobs created by exploration, development, production, and maintenance of the conven­ tional oil industry. Recent increases in the royalty tax credit level and the announcement of a temporary exploration drilling program have helped. Further announcements of the development drilling assistance program, the well servicing assistance program, and the geophysical assistance program will maintain jobs. Certainly the price is an area Of concern. Mr.

Speaker, as former chairman of the utilities committee, I'm delighted that the government has accepted our rec­ ommendations on EFRC and individual line service. One of my key concerns is high unemployment, especially for young people. As a government we must provide a suitable climate to encourage and develop business oppor­ tunities. The initiatives undertaken by the Minister of Man­ power are well received by Albertans. [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] Mr.

Speaker, this government is committed to providing safety nets for those who need them in the area of social services and health care and supports the community-based senior citizens' lodges, hospitals, and nursing homes. Before closing, I would like to welcome to the constituency of Drayton Valley the communities around Pigeon Lake and Falun along with Devon, Calmar, Thorsby, and areas. Each municipality, town, village, and community needs economic diversification and a broader assessment base, but each

June 25, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 241 community is also unique, with excellent leadership, solid administration, and above-average services. They are poised to take advantage of any opportunity that develops. I believe in communities helping themselves. I also believe in a government being helpful and flexible enough to assist communities in helping themselves. This government is committed to working with municipal governments to supply better services to their residents and to broaden their eco­ nomic and assessment bases. Mr. Speaker, I'm proud to be a member of this government and this Assembly.

I welcome the opportunity to work on behalf of agriculture in the province of Alberta as the associate minister. I also welcome the opportunity to serve my constituents as the MLA for Drayton Valley. MR. CHUMIR: Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to participate in the debate on the Speech from the Throne. In light of the new office space designated for the Liberal caucus in the Legislature Building, I would like to assure the House that this speech was not composed on the throne in that office. I would like to add my congratulations to you, Mr. Speaker, on your new role.

I know that you will be fair, judicious, wise and, when required, as tough as Canadian barbed wire. It is traditional to comment in the throne speech on one's constituency, in my case that of Calgary Buffalo. I've been unable to discover the rationale for the constituency name, although it appears to have been selected by someone who shared the same bent as Eye Opener Bob Edwards, who described the bat as his favourite bird. In any event, the electors of Calgary Buffalo are a diverse group who have shown great collective wisdom, independ­ ence, and a sense of adventure in their selection of an MLA.

What can you say about electors who choose a Jewish civil libertarian bachelor with a beard and fluffy hair who looks like a PLO representative and who represents a party which in the recent past was viewed very much in the same way as the Boston strangler was viewed in Massachusetts? Paraphrasing Humphrey Bogart's comments in Casablanca, I believe this is going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship between myself and Calgary Buffalo. During the campaign the electors of Calgary Buffalo indicated to me that they were anxious to have issues raised and discussed in the Legislature.

They wanted to have available to them choices and options which distinguish the democratic from the autocrati