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March 14, 1978

31st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Hansard Transcripts

L018 - Tue 14 Mar 1978 / Mar 14 mar 1978

COMMONWEALTH BOXING CHAMPION

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

CROWN TIMBER ACT

ORAL QUESTIONS

CIVIL SERVICE COMPLEMENT

INCREASE IN OHIP PREMIUMS

JOB CREATION

HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT

FLECK MANUFACTURING COMPANY

INCREASE IN OHIP PREMIUMS

MUNICIPAL FIRE DEPARTMENTS

JAQUES MURDER

FIRST AID TRAINING

MINI-SKOOLS LIMITED

LEGISLATIVE BUILDING

FRENCH-LANGUAGE SERVICES

ABORTIONS

PUBLIC POLLS

DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS

ENERGY BOARD HEARINGS

TAX EXEMPTION

MOTION

SITTINGS OF HOUSE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CROWN TIMBER AMENDMENT ACT

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY AMENDMENT ACT

PUBLIC HOSPITALS AMENDMENT ACT

FAMILY DAY ACT

LABOUR RELATIONS AMENDMENT ACT

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY ACT

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

ANSWER TO WRITTEN QUESTION

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET DEBATE (CONTINUED)

FAMILY LAW REFORM ACT (CONTINUED)

The House met at 2 p.m.

Prayers.

COMMONWEALTH BOXING CHAMPION

Mr. Makarchuk: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we had the opportunity in this Legislature to honour the Commonwealth. Today, with the consent of the members, I wish to introduce to them a distinguished guest, Gary Summerhays, the Commonwealth light-heavyweight boxing champion who is in the Speaker’s gallery.

Mr. Summerhays, who, of course, hails from Brantford, won the Commonwealth title in a bout in Melbourne, Australia, defeating Tony Mundine, the reigning Commonwealth champion.

Mr. Martel: He will sock it to you.

Mr. Makarchuk: In discussions yesterday with the Australian council, I was advised that our man in Australia was definitely the underdog in view of the long record of victories scored by the defeated champion. I’m sure all members would agree that the victory is a credit to Mr. Summerhays and it is something of which all of us can be proud.

Accompanying Mr. Summerhays is his wife, Teresa. Also in the gallery with the Summerhays is the coach and manager and another well-known Brantford resident, Mr. Frank Bricker. Mr. Bricker has been coaching boxers of all ages for many years. His record of coaching and managing a series of successful boxers is probably unmatched by anybody else in Canada. When you combine Mr. Brinker with Mr. Summerhays you have an unbeatable combination, and if anybody would like to dispute that, they’ll probably take care of you in the hallway. With Mr. Bricker is his wife, May.

Mr. Warner: He should take on the Treasurer (Mr. McKeough).

Mr. Makarchuk: I also wish to acknowledge at this time the contributions to the winning of the title by members of Branch 90 of the Royal Canadian Legion in Brantford, who provided the encouragement and training facilities for boxers trained by Mr. Bricker. I’m sure the members will join me in extending to them our congratulations and wishing them more success in the future.

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

CROWN TIMBER ACT

Hon. F. S. Miller: Mr. Speaker, later today I will introduce amendments to the Crown Timber Act. These amendments are, for the most part, based upon the report of the timber revenue task force. Detailed discussion and analysis following public review of this report has resulted in some amendments to the original recommendations.

The purpose of the amendments is to accomplish two principal objectives. First, they will enable the establishment of a system of Crown charges that is responsive to the cyclical nature of the forest industry. Second, they will ensure that revenue from the cutting of Crown timber is generated in an equitable manner.

Specifically the Crown Timber Act will be amended to authorize regulations to be made under which the Crown dues to be paid by order in council licensees will be indexed to commodity selling price indices and will be responsive to such indices.

In addition, the Crown Timber Act will be amended to amalgamate the present management charge and forest protection charge into a single area charge. Currently, the management charge and forest protection charge are $27.60 for each square mile of productive forest lands under licence. By regulation, the amalgamated area charge will be fixed effective April 1, 1978 at $41.40 for each square mile of productive forest land under licence, and will increase at the approximate rate of 10 per cent per annum for four years.

The proposed amendments to the Crown Timber Act will also enable regulations to be made under which compound interest of one per cent per month will be charged on overdue invoices for Crown charges. The regulations will also prescribe an objective rule for determining the due date of an invoice. Generally, invoices for Crown charges will be payable on the last day of the month following the month in which the invoices are prepared.

These amendments will provide better protection of the Crown revenue and are in line with currently acceptable business and accounting practices.

A great deal of thought has gone into the foregoing matters. However, we recognize that there may be certain adjustment problems for individual firms during the early phases of implementation. It is our intention to closely monitor the effects of these amendments to determine if they create deterrents to good forest utilization practices or operating procedures. Should these occur, steps will be taken.

ORAL QUESTIONS

CIVIL SERVICE COMPLEMENT

Mr. S. Smith: If the Premier (Mr. Davis) won’t be in, I’ll ask the Treasurer a question. Referring to table 7 of budget paper C, would the Treasurer care to explain to us how it is that he has been referring to a reduction of over 4,000 people in the civil service over the years since 1971? In fact, the Premier spoke to the Canadian Society of New York on May 17, 1977 and said: “We have increased government efficiency and in the last three years reduced our civil service by 4,200.” Can the Treasurer reconcile that with table 7 of budget paper C which shows only a reduction of 1,350 since March 1, 1975, when the Premier has made a claim of 4,200?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: The Premier and I -- and I think members generally -- have referred in the last couple of years to complement positions within the civil service. The complement positions at any given time were perhaps never all filled, but there was a reduction of something like 4,200 over a three-year period or two and a half-year period in the approved complement positions.

Members opposite and others also put questions on the order paper from time to time concerning contract staff, unclassified staff. In last year’s budget, although it may have been separately, I believe the Chairman of Management Board (Mr. Auld) indicated we were switching over to an entirely new system of dollar control and not just complement control.

The figures which are available in table 7 were not available before. For a whole variety of reasons, we didn’t have a complete spotlight on the number of people working at any given point in time. What the board does now -- I think on the last day of each month -- is take a snapshot, as they call it, on the number of employees, full- or part-time, contract or otherwise, within each ministry. That, in turn, happens within each institution or office of the government. The figures, which are very gratifying, would indicate that although it was suspected people were simply reducing their classified staff and increasing unclassified staff, this has not happened.

Since March 1, 1975, to December 31, 1977, two years less two months, there has been a drop in total employment of 1,350. These figures were collected on a yearly basis to begin with and it is only within the last 15 months that the board has been collecting the monthly figures.

I can give members a further figure, for example, as of the end of January. The total figure which includes “other,” that is, provincial police, uniformed security guards and so on, is now 84,613 as against 85,994 in December or as against 85,096 at the end of January 1977. If the member is interested, the Chairman of Management Board, I am sure, either as I say in the budget or subsequent to the budget, explained the full details of the switches that were being made.

The simple answer to the question, the quick answer, is that the Premier or others were talking about approved complement positions

whereas this table for the first time refers to total staff at any given moment on staff.

Mr. S. Smith: By way of supplementary, does the Treasurer not agree that it is somewhat misleading for the Premier to speak in New York of “having reduced our civil service by 4,200,” when by the Treasurer’s own admission now the only reduction has been 1,350 and the remaining 2,900 people who are no longer there were never there in the first place? He is eliminating nothing from nothing.

Mr. Mancini: Right on.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: No, I don’t feel that it is inconsistent.

Mr. Roy: In the used car business it is called pulling.

[2:15]

Hon. Mr. McKeough: If the member would examine the words used, he would find the words “complement positions” as opposed to “staff.”

Mr. S. Smith: Not in the Premier’s statement.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: We recognized in making this change that there would be some confusion. I recognize that the Leader of the Opposition is embarrassed by these figures --

Mr. S. Smith: Oh yes, embarrassed at having you as Treasurer.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: -- because during this same period, his kissing cousins in Ottawa have gone on and on and on, adding staff.

Mr. Ruston: Is that the best you can come up with?

Mr. Bradley: Passing the buck again.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order. The hon. Leader of the Opposition with his second question.

Mr. S. Smith: I was hoping to ask a question of the Premier but failing that the Minister of Labour (B. Stephenson) and failing that the House leader (Mr. Welch). Who will be acting House leader?

An hon. member: Ask the Treasurer again. He’s accessible.

Mr. S. Smith: No, it has nothing to do with the Treasurer. Who would be acting House leader in the absence of the House leader, Mr. Speaker?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: The House leader was here, and will be back.

Mr. S. Smith: I’ll wait for him to return for my second question.

An hon. member: You just used up the question.

Mr. Cassidy: I would not want people to feel that my suit was deceptive, Mr. Speaker, so I want to put this button on because as a good New Democrat would say, “No taxation without legislation.” And for members opposite who wish one, the member for Scarborough-Ellesmere (Mr. Warner) will be happy to provide a supply at $1 apiece.

Mr. Lewis: What do you mean at $1 apiece? For Tories it is $2.

Mr. Cassidy: That’s right, whatever the market will bear.

INCREASE IN OHIP PREMIUMS

Mr. Cassidy: I have a question for the Treasurer. Is the Treasurer -- and the government -- now prepared to reconsider the announced increase in our health tax -- in other words the OHIP premium increase -- given that a worker earning the Ontario average wage of $13,400 will pay 8.4 per cent of his net income after taxes in health premiums

whereas a person earning almost twice as much -- $25,000 a year -- will pay only 3.8 per cent of his net taxable income for the same coverage?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: First of all I think we should all recognize that today is the leader’s reply to the budget speech, and I want to congratulate him on wearing a three-piece suit again. I never thought we’d see it again. It really is very stunning and the orange button just sets it off beautifully.

Mr. Martel: We rent them, Darcy.

Mr. Makarchuk: The clothing rental industry is a growth industry.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the figures in that question under advisement.

Mr. Cassidy: Supplementary then: Does the minister not agree that a tax that takes more from people the lower the income they have, right down to the poverty line, is completely contrary to the principles of a fair and equitable tax system?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: The member, I assume, is a member of the public service and has his premiums paid in full through the Office of the Assembly. This means that whatever his marginal rate is -- and I assume that it must be 70 or 80 per cent -- they would have to pay him a lot to take that job, one way or another --

Mr. Martel: That’s why they pay the Premier so much.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: -- therefore you are being taxed at a heavier marginal rate on that taxable benefit. Those who pay a low marginal rate, if they’re receiving their benefit in full from their employer, obviously are taxed at a much lesser rate.

Mr. S. Smith: And if they pay it themselves, God help them.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: The difference is exactly the same as it would be if the money were paid out in the form of income and tax levied off it.

Mr. Lewis: Talk about sophistry.

Mr. Cassidy: Supplementary: Does the Treasurer not understand that employees whose employers pay their premium will lose this in wage increases, and that employees who have to pay the premium themselves will be having to pay out a rate of health premiums which is higher than the total of the federal and provincial tax combined at modest rates of income?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I read the Globe and Mail -- good Lord, I read it three days ago and I’m glad the member has got around to reading it.

Mr. Martel: I didn’t think you could after the budget.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: There are certain notch problems.

I have replied extensively to the Globe and Mail today. I invite the leader of the third party to read that letter and then we’ll discuss it again.

Mr. Cassidy: Final supplementary: In view of the fact that premium income provides only 10 per cent of health costs in Alberta, 15 per cent in British Columbia, and 13 per cent in Quebec

whereas the Treasurer, on behalf of this government, intends to collect 34 per cent of health costs through premium income in this province, does the Treasurer not agree that Ontario therefore will have the most regressive system of health premiums in all of Canada?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: Mr. Speaker, no, I do not agree.

Mr. Cassidy: The facts belie you.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: My colleague the Minister of Health (Mr. Timbrell) points out that the premiums will pay about 28 per cent of the total health bill or a third of the insurance services. I think one might look at the tax rates in some of the other provinces. If the member wants to move to the provinces of British Columbia and Manitoba during their erring Socialist days when they put on rates of income tax which crippled both those economies, then let him go.

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: We pride ourselves on having the second lowest rate of income tax in Canada, and we aim to keep it that way.

Mr. Cassidy: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary.

Mr. Speaker: No. A new question.

Mr. Cassidy: Ultimate final supplementary?

Mr. Speaker: New question.

JOB CREATION

Mr. Cassidy: Mr. Speaker, I have a new question of the Treasurer. With the announcement by Statistics Canada today that there are one million people unemployed in Canada, and 326,000 men and women now unemployed in this province, is the Treasurer prepared to reconsider his refusal to introduce any program of permanent job creation in his budget?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: Mr. Speaker, obviously I am disturbed by the unemployment figures which were released today and which show a small deterioration in the figures from January in Canada as a whole and marginally here in Ontario. I think one must remember, and bear in mind, that on an actual basis -- and, for that matter, on a seasonally adjusted basis -- unemployment figures in both Canada and Ontario typically peak during January, February and March; February and March, I think would be more correct, generally speaking.

We are seeing the results of the fact that we are at that particular time in the calendar year. I said in my budget that I thought we would have a small decrease in the number of unemployed. Obviously I did not expect that to happen in the month of February, nor do I.

Mr. Cassidy: It won’t happen with your budget either.

Mr. Deans: Which month?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I know the member wants us to spend more to create jobs; whether by borrowing or raising taxes, he has never made clear.

Mr. Warner: You have no plans for jobs.

Mr. Martel: You are not among the unemployed. You wouldn’t know what it is like.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I rejected that course of action last Tuesday night, as we rejected it a year ago. I would point out to my friends that governments right across this country have rejected that course of action. The easy thing to do, of course, would be to say, “Sure, we’ll run up the deficit. We’ll run up our cash requirements by several hundred millions of dollars.” But somebody will have to pay that bill.

Mr. Renwick: The hard thing for you to do would be to care about any people who are unemployed.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I’m not prepared blithely to leave that bill to future generations.

Mr. Martel: There are 326,000 unemployed now.

Mr. Mackenzie: The unemployed are paying the bill now.

Mr. Foulds: Try balancing the economy as well as the budget, you clunk.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I would point out that even in February, employment rose in Ontario by about 16,000, which was not enough to absorb the growth in the labour force, which was some 27,000.

Mr. Warner: You are a picture of perpetual failure.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: The number of unemployed increased on an actual basis by some 10,000, but I would point out to the member that, since February a year ago, the actual number of jobs in Ontario has increased by 98,000 and, on a seasonally adjusted basis, 101,000 additional jobs have been created in Ontario since February 1977.

Mr. Mackenzie: What do you figure on a structural basis?

Mr. Cassidy: Tell that to the people of Sudbury.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I think that’s pretty good, considering the conditions that we have in the country and the world economy.

Mr. Warner: You helped make it so.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I don’t rest on that; but I’m honest enough, and we in this party are honest enough, to say that the growth in jobs and employment will come through the private sector and not from make-work programs which the member advocates.

Mr. Cassidy: Tell that to the unemployed.

I have a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. How many people must be unemployed in this province before the Treasurer will reconsider his complete refusal to undertake any job creation programs for Ontario?

Ms. Gigantes: How low can you go?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: Mr. Speaker, I can think of one who I would like to see unemployed but he just got his job; so I don’t know that I would do anything about that. I don’t want to see him unemployed.

Mr. Cassidy: I will be here after you have gone.

An hon. member: Keep them around, we need them.

Mr. Warner: The Treasurer really should resign; he is totally inept.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I recognize the keenness with which the members of the third party particularly attack this problem; that is their right and it is my duty to defend our position, and I shall do so.

Mr. Laughren: Defend it. That’s right, exactly right.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: While I am on my feet, though, I have to take exception to yesterday’s Star which reported on --

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: This is a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday’s Star was reporting on a meeting of the Toronto Teachers’ Federation; it was on their brief to the pension commission. I quote: --

Mr. McClellan: Make a hat of it and put it on your head.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: -- “The brief blames the enrolment crisis on failures of government policy, arguing that economic uncertainty, high unemployment and staggering inflation have led to a climate where people do not want to risk having children.” I will take a lot on my shoulders, but not that. I object to that statement.

Mr. Laughren: You are very funny, Darcy.

Mr. Cassidy: A supplementary: I want to say that the Treasurer’s compassion has all the character of Marie Antoinette and shouldn’t be permitted here in this province.

Hon. Mr. Davis: Do you know her well, Michael?

Mr. Cassidy: Is the Treasurer saying that when one out of every seven young people in this province is unemployed, when one out of 12 men in this province is unemployed and one out of every 11 working women in this province is unemployed that the situation is not serious enough to justify any reconsideration of his determination to do absolutely nothing about the unemployed?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I brought in a budget a week ago and I don’t propose to change it a week later.

Mr. Warner: Disaster.

Mr. di Santo: Shame.

Mr. Speaker: Does the Leader of the Opposition now have a target?

Mr. S. Smith: Yes, and just before I make mention of my second question, Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw to the attention of this House that tomorrow is the fifth anniversary of the happy event whereby the member for St. George (Mrs. Campbell) and the member for Huron-Middlesex (Mr. Riddell) first took their seats in this chamber.

Mr. Sweeney: And you guys have been running ever since.

Mr. Ruston: Put them on the run, Margaret.

Mr. S. Smith: That was, of course, the start of the long road upwards which we have gradually been making progress on, and we trust we are still heading in the right direction.

Mr. Warner: You are always headed to the right.

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: You lost a seat in the last election.

Mr. S. Smith: There has been the occasional setback.

Interjections.

HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT

Mr. S. Smith: A question to the Premier, regarding the matter of the report of the Human Rights Commission of Ontario, entitled Life Together, a report which all of us have now had a chance to study carefully. Would the Premier undertake to provide some forum in the Legislature for us to discuss this report with all its implications, particularly the changes in the code but also the changes in reporting, the changes in financing, the changes in staff and so on recommended in this report? We in the Legislature can then have the opportunity to discuss it, as the outgoing chairman of that Human Rights Commission would have wished us to do.

Hon. Mr. Davis: I would have no reluctance to a discussion of the report in the House. The government is presently evaluating the report. I think there are some aspects of it that may find their way into possible amendments, which might provide the opportunity for the kind of discussion the Leader of the Opposition is suggesting. If there are no proposed legislative changes during the course of the spring session, assuming that the work is going along relatively well, I am sure we could find an afternoon or evening to discuss the contents of the report.

I think it’s a very constructive document. There will be some in your party who do not share some of the recommendations in that report. There will be one, at least, who will, and I know that the member will want to have that sort of discussion with people able to offer their totally objective points of view on some of those issues --

Mr. Reid: Yes or no?

Hon. Mr. Davis: -- and I think that some discussion of that nature might be helpful, but I would just ask the Leader of the Opposition to be patient for two or three weeks to see whether there is an opportunity, perhaps through proposed legislation, where we can do that.

[2:30]

Mr. S. Smith: By way of supplementary -- and given the concern that exists, and rightly so, about racism, as well as about the problems of minorities defined in other manners, and despite the probable amendment that I think the Premier is referring to, and which has to do with the handicapped and their inclusion in the Human Rights Code, I do hope that he will have a chance to discuss the whole report.

May I, by way of further supplementary, ask the Premier for his comments on two particular recommendations? The first one is that an annual report should be prepared and tabled in the Legislature, detailing all the activities and the progress of the commission; what is his feeling about that? Secondly, what does he feel about the recommendation, “that it become an established practice for the Premier to consult with the Leader of the Opposition before recommending the appointment of the chairman of the commission”? I would like his opinion on that last category, inasmuch as there was no consultation whatever with regard to the most recent appointment.

Mr. Martel: Why don’t you make him deputy prime minister?

Mr. McClellan: Give him a seat in the cabinet.

Mr. Lewis: We could strike an all-party committee to look into this.

Hon. Mr. Davis: I have known the prime author of this report and his very constructive approach to a number of these matters, and as well, the conciliatory way in which he approaches some of his recommendations. Firstly, on the suggestion that there should be an annual report tabled, I would have no reluctance in discussing that with the commission. If it makes sense, I certainly would have no objection to it.

I sense that the author of the report really was looking at the appointment of the chairman of the Human Rights Commission as something comparable to the way the Ombudsman of this province is appointed. I would say with respect to Professor Symons that while I agree with a number of the recommendations, I think it is fair to state that the Human Rights Commission does not fall in the same category as the Ombudsman.

There is no question that if there are difficulties in terms of the administration of that commission, if there are difficulties in terms of policy as it relates to the commission, I think it is fair for the members opposite to raise those with the government, which has the responsibility ultimately for the determination of, first, the people; second, the legislation; and third, the general direction the Human Rights Commission takes.

In that the government must assume that responsibility under our system, I think it is only appropriate that the government assume the responsibility for the chairman and for those who are appointed to the commission.

FLECK MANUFACTURING COMPANY

Mr.

Riddell: A question of the Solicitor General: In view of the rather unfortunate incident which occurred at Fleck Manufacturing Company this morning where there was considerable property damage done by UAW members from outside the area; and in view of the number of workers who expressed concern to me this morning that they wanted to go to work but were certainly reluctant to jeopardize their safety by crossing the picket line without police protection; and in view of the fact that I indicated in my question in the Premier yesterday that the picket line was going to be reinforced this morning by workers from Talbotville, why did the Solicitor General not take steps to reinforce the police force in order to keep order at the plant?

And what does he intend to do to prevent further violation of the Criminal Code in connection with this particular strike?

Mr. Martel: Now there is a friend of labour; that whole group.

Mr. di Santo: They’re worse than the Tories.

Hon. Mr. Kerr: There was an incident this morning. I understand the incident related to a number of people in a car who were not employed at the plant. Apparently the pickets mistakenly thought they were employees trying to enter the plant, but they were apparently employed at a firm, Protective Plastics, which has a plant near the Fleck plant. That was an unfortunate occurrence.

Mr. Breithaupt: Would it have been all right if they were employed?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: The police were informed, of course, that there would be a number of extra picketers attending at the plant today, and it was decided by management that the plant would not be open. In view of that, there was no necessity of reinforcing or adding numerous police officers in the area of the plant this morning.

Mr. Riddell: Supplementary: Is the Solicitor General indicating that mobs of people can come and do considerable property damage, even though the plant is not open? As I understand it, there was assault on two press people. Is the minister indicating that this can go on and the police can just stand and watch it happen, even though the plant isn’t in operation?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: No. There were a number of police officers there. I believe there were about six or seven police officers there. As for the incidents to which the hon. member refers, there is a possibility that charges will be laid.

Mr. Renwick: Supplementary: Upset as I am by the comments made by the member for Huron-Middlesex, I address my supplementary question to the Solicitor General. Will the Solicitor General instruct the OPP that their obligation with respect to the picketers on lawful strike at that plant is to provide them with an opportunity of communicating with those who are trying to break the strike?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: The Ontario Provincial Police are quite aware of their responsibilities and duties in respect to a picket line.

Mr. Renwick: Further supplementary: Will the Solicitor General advise this House in what way a person on lawful picket, on foot, can inform persons in vehicles about the reason for the strike and why the strike is taking place?

Mr. S. Smith: Not by turning a car over.

Mr. Rotenberg: You can’t stop people from working. You talk about unemployment; let them work.

Hon. Mr. Kerr: I think any employee attempting to enter the plant by way of using a motor vehicle or a bus is quite aware of the fact that that plant is on strike and that the picket line is there in order to inform the employees that the plant is on strike. I’m not aware that the picket line has been unable to communicate in some way with the employees inside that plant.

Mr. Renwick: Oh, come off it! How do you communicate with a bus escorted by police?

An hon. member: Does that give them the right to obstruct?

Mr. Reid: Supplementary: Can the Solicitor General tell the House if, as a result of what happened this morning, any charges have been laid against anyone?

Mr. Deans: He already answered that.

Hon. Mr. Kerr: I already answered that for the hon. member for Huron-Middlesex. There is the possibility that charges will be laid, yes.

INCREASE IN OHIP PREMIUMS

Mr. Warner: I have a question for the Treasurer. Before I put it, I wish to present the Treasurer with a button entitled, “No taxation without legislation.” I’m sure he’ll wear it in good health.

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: When are you dumping the tea in the harbour?

Mr. Warner: Does the Treasurer now admit clearly and unequivocally that he has no intention of lowering the OHIP tax increase nor of making the committee to which the health tax had been referred a meaningful exercise and that the committee will not be relevant and will have no effect upon his decision?

Mr. Rotenberg: Send buttons to the members for Wentworth and Scarborough West too. They haven’t got one.

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I obviously have and will continue to have a great respect for committees of this Legislature. I will look forward to their deliberations in this area with a great deal of interest. I listened yesterday to the financial critic from the Liberal Party. I didn’t hear any suggestions -- just a lot of rhetoric. But it may be that the committee will have something positive to say.

Mr. Kerrio: That makes us even.

Mr. Warner: Supplementary: Perhaps the Treasurer could explain why the order in council which now makes the premium tax a law in the province of Ontario was signed yesterday. Why did he go ahead and sign that, knowing that he is undermining whatever work the committee could have done?

Hon. Mr. McKeough: I think the member is somewhat wrong. The order in council went through cabinet on March 8, a week ago.

Mr. Warner: Mr. Speaker, on a point of information, it was filed, dated March 13. Under the Regulations Act,

section 3, it clearly states that a regulation comes into force and has effect on and after the day upon which it is filed, such date being yesterday. Although it was first drafted on March 9 it did not become law until yesterday.

Mr. Speaker: The hon. member has made his point.

Mr. Martel: Now answer the question.

Mr. Lewis: Question, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Martel: He has not answered the question.

Mr. Warner: Do we get an answer?

Mr. Speaker: It wasn’t a question. It was a point of information.

Mr. Lewis: Of course it was a question.

Mr. Wildman: The Treasurer never responded to the initial question.

Mr. Laughren: A button a day keeps the Treasurer away.

MUNICIPAL FIRE DEPARTMENTS

Mr. Roy: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Solicitor General and it deals in the realm of the Fire Marshal’s office and the policies of various fire departments.

Would the Solicitor General advise whether there is a policy involving fire departments in this province, especially in regional municipalities, where we have various fire departments dealing with different municipalities, that they fight fires on a first-arrival basis? Is this a provincial policy and is he going to enforce it to avoid a situation as happened in Ottawa last week where the Rideau Fire Department got to the scene of a fire and sat back and let the building burn down -- a lady was seriously injured -- because the fire was in the Gloucester area?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: In situations of that kind within a region -- and as the hon. member says, there may be three or four different departments in the municipalities within that region -- the prime responsibility rests with the department within the region where there may be a fire. However, in many instances there are agreements between municipalities that, depending upon the location of the fire, other departments and other personnel will also answer the alarm.

I am surprised when the hon. member says that one particular department refused to assist, because there is a certain amount of reciprocity between the municipalities within a region, and that is understood in many parts of the province. It isn’t necessarily dictated by the Fire Marshal or an edict by the Fire Marshal; that is something that is usually agreed to by the departments within the region.

Mr. Roy: In view of the fact that we clearly had a situation in Ottawa where apparently Gloucester advised Rideau that it didn’t want Rideau to fight a fire in Gloucester even though it was closer, would he not feel, as minister responsible provincially and through the Fire Marshal’s office, that it should be a provincial policy that fires are fought on a first-arrival basis, and so avoid situations like this, where two municipalities apparently could not come to some agreement?

Mr. Hodgson: Getting away from local government now. Getting away from local representation.

Mr. Roy: Doesn’t the minister think it is somewhat ridiculous for one fire department to show up and just sit back and wait for the other fire department, which is 11 minutes away from arriving at the scene? Doesn’t he think there should be a provincial policy when municipalities can’t agree?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: Mr. Speaker, I will look into that.

Mr. Nixon: You would let the place burn down eh?

Hon. Mr. Kerr: I didn’t realize that the hon. member was saying, in fact, that the department personnel who arrived at the fire were told by the fire department in the area where the fire occurred not to take an action. This seems strange and I will look into it.

Mr. Breithaupt: Supplementary?

Mr. Speaker: The hon. minister said he would look into it. There will be further opportunities.

Mr. Peterson: He fights fire with fire, Mr. Speaker.

JAQUES MURDER

Mr. Lawlor: A question of the Attorney General, arising out of the Jaques murder trial: What is the intention of the Crown with respect to appealing the verdict of acquittal in the case of Mr. Gruener and the second degree murder verdict in the case of Mr. Woods?

Hon. Mr. McMurtry: I have requested the senior law officers of the Crown to review the matter with a view to launching an appeal with respect to those two accused. It is first necessary to obtain a transcript of the rather lengthy charge to the jury by Mr. Justice Maloney, and we are hoping that this transcript will be available within the next day or two. I would expect a decision should be made with respect to appeals in relation to these two gentlemen at the beginning of next week.

FIRST AID TRAINING

Mr. B. Newman: Mr. Speaker, I have a question of the Minister of Health. In the light of the recent recommendation of a coroner’s jury investigating the death of one Kenneth Clarke, a promising young hockey star who suffered fatal brain damage when he was hit by a puck behind his left ear just below his helmet, that his life may have been saved if he had been given basic first aid treatment, would the minister suggest to his colleague, the Minister of Education (Mr.

Wells), that artificial respiration or some method of respiration, including cardiopulmonary resuscitation, be given top priority in the schools so that at least we can save lives simply by teaching our students the basics of artificial respiration?

[2:45]

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I haven’t yet seen that coroner’s report. Unfortunately they are usually a number of weeks behind the press reports about them. When I receive it I will review the recommendations and ask our staff to consider that with the Ministry of Education staff. I know that first aid, including various forms of artificial resuscitation, is quite widely taught now throughout the province. It may well be that it is something we can consider putting an added emphasis to for some expansion.

Mr. B. Newman: Supplementary: May I ask of the Minister of Health then, while the Minister of Education is here, that at least no athlete be allowed to indulge in the athletic activity unless he has taken a course in pulmonary or artificial respiration?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I am not sure that is a realistic suggestion. If the hon. member were to suggest that trainers of teams in high schools, or coaches, should have had some form of training, I think that would be something worth considering, but to suggest that every athlete must have CPR training I think is perhaps stretching it a bit.

Mr. Breithaupt: My supplementary is of the Minister of Health, with respect to the requirement that coaches or managers of teams at least be required, perhaps by the beginning of the next educational year to have completed a short first aid course. Would the minister look into that prospect so that this might be a reasonable first step in providing for an intelligent balance of the needs for first aid availability to all the teams of young people?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: As I said, Mr. Speaker, once I have received the coroner’s inquest report -- the report of the jury that is -- I’ll consider the recommendations and take them up as necessary through our staff, with representatives of the Ministry of Education. I hope members realize the problems in high school sport, in first of all getting people to take on positions as managers and coaches of teams. We would want to have a proper balance between precaution and getting people to take those jobs on.

MINI-SKOOLS LIMITED

Mr. McClellan: I have a question of the Minister of Community and Social Services with respect to Mini-Skools. Yesterday, in his statement of exoneration, the minister said: “We have no evidence from our inspections that Mini-Skools overenrolled generally.” I wanted to ask the minister whether his inspections revealed enrolment in excess of licence capacity at the Queensview Centre in December 1977; at the Tuxedo Centre in November 1977; at the Brimorton, Tuxedo, Kingsview One and Kingsview Two centres in October 1977?

Hon. Mr. Norton: I am sorry, I did have, yesterday, a complete list of the inspection reports and I don’t seem to have them with me at the moment and I don’t recall that from memory. Perhaps that is something we could deal with at the late show tonight when the hon. member wishes to entertain the House.

Mr. McClellan: With respect, that is not a sufficient answer to the question. I would hope the minister would take it as notice and provide the data in a normal response to the question.

By way of supplementary, let me ask him simply why did he exonerate Mini-Skools yesterday without having thoroughly reviewed the material that was presented to him on Thursday, let alone obtain full material from Mini-Skools, including the Mini-Skools financial report and other financial and enrolment data, as he was requested to do? Why did he exonerate them right off the bat?

Hon. Mr. Norton: As usual, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is relying upon some erroneous assumptions. First of all, I said nothing with respect to exoneration of anyone yesterday. I indicated to the hon. member that I had reviewed the material, that my staff had examined the material; if that was not his impression I don’t know where he got any other impression.

The only statement I have seen with respect to total exoneration was in the press this morning. That certainly was not a quote from my lips.

Ms. Gigantes: It’s not what you said; it’s what you did.

Hon. Mr. Norton: My staff have thoroughly reviewed the material and all I suggested yesterday was that we certainly found no substantiation for the hon. member’s allegations.

Ms. Gigantes: You didn’t look.

Hon. Mr. Norton: I did not indicate that the matter was entirely closed. If the hon. member has any additional information, I would be happy to review it, as I have the other. I don’t know on what he is basing his erroneous assumptions with respect to how I have dealt with this matter.

Mr. McClellan: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker? He hasn’t answered my question.

Mr. Speaker: No. There will be an opportunity during the late show this evening.

LEGISLATIVE BUILDING

Mrs. Campbell: My question is to the Minister of Government Services: In view of the fact that there would appear to have been a shift in the policy of this government with reference to this building, would the minister now at least begin to get the matter on track by tabling the report of Eric Arthur?

Hon. Mr. Henderson: Mr. Speaker, I’m not aware of any shift of the government’s position respecting this building.

Mr. Wildman: What about a shift in the building?

Mrs. Campbell: Supplementary: Perhaps the minister is not aware of the discussions which have been ongoing with his predecessor (Mr. McCague) with reference to the use of this building and the position of Mr. Speaker with reference to the allocation of space. Would he now comment as to his position in this matter so that we can have some clarification?

Hon. Mr. Henderson: It is the intention of this minister to uphold the commitment made by the previous minister.

Mrs. Campbell: Supplementary: May I just point out that the commitment was to start the relocation in February. How is the present minister going to do that?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Roy: What year?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order. I’m sure all members would like to hear this answer.

Mr. Sweeney: Just tell us it is retroactive legislation.

Mr. Peterson: Put out a new phone book, Lorne.

Hon. Mr. Henderson: Mr. Speaker, in response to the hon. member’s question --

An hon. member: Put it on your Christmas card.

Hon. Mr. Henderson: -- I, as the minister, have had several meetings with my staff, as has your office with the people who are responsible to you. They’re trying to allocate the space in order that all members can have an office within this building. That is being worked on daily.

Hon. Mr. Davis: Hourly, sir.

Mr. Martel: Supplementary: Is it possible for the minister to allow the Speaker, who has responsibility for the building, to allocate space and get Government Services out of the situation totally?

Hon. Mr. Davis: That wouldn’t be fair to the Speaker.

Hon. Mr. Henderson: Mr. Speaker, I am sure that you’re more aware than anyone else in this House that you have the responsibility for a portion of this building; the Ministry of Government Services also has responsibilities for a portion of this building.

Mr. Martel: Boy, that sure answers the question.

FRENCH-LANGUAGE SERVICES

Mr. Swart: My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Provincial Secretary for Resources Development. I’m putting the question to him in his capacity as chairman of the cabinet committee on bilingualism and francophone rights: Would he agree that the caisse populaire movement in this province has a major place in the French-Canadian culture and the ability of the francophones to function in their own language?

And in view of the Premier’s statement that the government is going to institute practical measures to implement French rights, instead of the so-called symbolism of a declaration of a bilingual province, would the minister tell the House whether the translation of the Credit Unions and Caisses Populaires Act and its regulations into French have been completed -- a request that was made to his government more than a year ago?

Hon. Mr. Brunelle: I think the hon. member is aware of the amount of work that has been done in providing services in the French language. The Speech from the Throne indicated more measures to be taken in having the Juries Act and the Adjudicators Act providing services in the French language. A certain amount of money has been set aside for the translation of statutes and regulations, and I’d be glad to let the hon. member know at what stage the translation of the regulations and the statutes of the Credit Unions and Caisses Populaires Act is presently at.

Mr. Swart: By way of supplementary, could the minister give some indication to the House of any schedule, not only for the translation into French of that Act but of the Education Act, the health and social services Acts and even the driver training program and the provision of it in those areas where it is needed? Could he give us some indication of the

schedule of the translations?

Hon. Mr. Brunelle: I would be pleased to make that information available to the hon. member.

Mr. Roy: Supplementary: In view of the fact that there was $100,000 available for the last five years, which the government of which he is a member did not take up with the federal government, has this government gone back to the federal government, now that it has made a commitment to start translating certain statutes, and said to them: “Could you allocate us that $500,000 which we didn’t pick up over the last five years?”

Hon. Mr. Brunelle: We certainly use and welcome all the money the federal government makes available to us and we just wish we could get more of it.

Mr. S. Smith: Come on now!

Mr. Roy: You can go back for it.

ABORTIONS

Mr. Williams: I have a question of the Minister of Health. It is my understanding that representations have been made in recent weeks to ministry officials advocating the establishment of private abortion clinics, described as “well-woman clinics,” under the guise of public hospitals. It is my further understanding that such proposals are not in accordance with the hospital program and policy of the ministry relative to both hospital facilities and to the broader issue of government recognition and support of abortion clinics. Would the minister please advise if I am correct in this understanding?

Mr. Bradley: That sure wasn’t a plant.

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I have met on two occasions with groups proposing the establishment of women’s health clinics, one of the major purposes of which would be to take out of at least some of the hospitals the therapeutic abortion procedure and put it into such clinics. I believe I have a further meeting coming up in the future.

My position throughout has been one of, shall I say, being wary of the proposal on three grounds: first, the question of anonymity for those women seeking to have a therapeutic abortion performed; second, the question of safety of the patient -- even though a very small percentage of therapeutic abortions result in serious complications, my concern has been that, as long as they are going to be performed in the province, they should be in centres with qualified staff, sophisticated equipment, operating theatres and so forth as back up; and the third problem, as I see, it is a question of cost.

When we have ample public hospital facilities already paid for by the people of Ontario, I don’t see how we can afford to add this kind of facility on top of that.

Mr. Williams: With regard to the second part of my question, putting aside those particular concerns, would this type of proposal recognize or give support to the government’s position with regard to the establishment of abortion clinics? I should say, is the government in support of the establishment of such clinics?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: In one word, no.

Ms. Gigantes: Along the same lines, I would like to ask the minister am I correct in my understanding that he has received the re-review of the Badgley commission report, and is he going to table that review?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Since the last time the hon. member inquired of me about this, which I think was in November, the first time being in July, just in the last three weeks we have received the comments of the Ontario Hospital Association as an association to the recommendations of the committee, headed by Dr. Caudwell in my ministry. We should be ready in the near future to move on that.

A number of the recommendations both of the Badgley commission, which reported to the federal Minister of National Health and Welfare, and of my own committee, will require further development of policy guidelines and so forth. I don’t see us responding to the entire report at once. It is something which is evolving, but certainly --

[3:00]

Ms. Gigantes: Will the minister table it?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Will I table the responses from the OHA and the OMA? Yes.

PUBLIC POLLS

Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education. Did the minister personally authorize the engagement of a private opinion-poll firm to take a public opinion study in relation to the Toronto teachers’ strike in 1975, a poll which cost something like $30,000 in public funds? If so, can the minister tell us why?

Hon. Mr. Wells: At various times, during that year and other years, we have used the services of a polling organization in order that we may be fully aware of what the members of the public are thinking about the education system of this province.

Mr. Reid: Would the minister not agree that in that case those polls should perhaps be tabled in the House? And is it not a fact that he is buying an expression of public opinion with taxpayers’ money, by taking these kinds of polls that really don’t or shouldn’t have any effect on government policy?

Mr. Peterson: All this time we thought the minister didn’t know about it.

Hon. Mr. Wells: It has always been my philosophy that it is the role of government -- and particularly we who are charged with the responsibility of developing policies and legislation -- to have what we call people participation.

Mr. S. Smith: People participation?

Mr. Cassidy: What a lot of balderdash. You’ll never share it. You’re an arrogant bunch, you know; you really are.

Hon. Mr. Wells: The leader of the third party laughs, but he likes to mouth the phrases without really believing in it. We over here believe in it.

An hon. member: Is the government going to do a poll on OHIP?

Hon. Mr. Wells: I believe I want to know what the people think about various aspects of policies.

Mr. Reid: Will the minister table the report?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Wells: I don’t believe these are reports that should be tabled.

Mr. S. Smith: It is people participation, isn’t it?

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. S. Smith: By way of supplementary.

Mr. Speaker: Order. I thought there was only one final supplementary. The hon. member for Port Arthur.

Mr. Foulds: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the minister is so interested in receiving the opinions of the people in the province about the educational system, why doesn’t he do more within his ministry to ask the parents and the children what they think of it?

Hon. Mr. Wells: The member knows that we do do more within our ministry to ask the parents and the children what they think about the system. Let me refer the member to one very extensive public opinion report that is public, which he’s read and I’ve read. We’ve all looked at the results and we have used those results to determine some of the policies --

Ms. Gigantes: Table them all.

Mr. Foulds: How about participation in the community?

Hon. Mr. Wells: -- and I refer to the Interface study which was done in this province.

Mr. Speaker: The hon. member for Essex North with a final supplementary.

Mr. Ruston: I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Education. While making the survey, did his people look into the lack of education that the children are receiving and at what effect it might have on the children over the next year or two? Did he survey that too?

Hon. Mr. Wells: I might bring to the member’s attention that there is a research project coming out, which is being done by the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, on the effects of the strike in Metropolitan Toronto --

Mr. S. Smith: The Premier (Mr. Davis) should get them on the public payroll.

Hon. Mr. Wells: -- and when it is ready it will be public and will be tabled.

DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS

Mr. Wildman: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Ministry of Industry and Tourism. In view of the questions raised in many minds by the Treasurer’s comments on the Ontario Development Corporation and the streamlining of government operations in the budget, can the minister assure the House that he does not intend to abolish the Ontario Development Corporation’s role as the lending agency of last resort for small industrial and tourist resort entrepreneurs, and can the minister assure us that he does not intend to dismantle the programs of the ministry in the way that he approached his role as Minister of Housing?

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: Mr. Speaker, in response to the first question, I have no intention of doing away with the role of the Ontario Development Corporation. We may very well change the thrust of it and try to make it a little more responsive to some of the requests we’ve received.

In response to the second portion, I am most grateful that the hon. member has recognized the extremely fine job I did in streamlining the operations of the Ministry of Housing.

Mr. Swart: You misinterpreted it.

Mr. Makarchuk: Your perceptions are slightly twisted.

Mr. Wildman: Mr. Speaker, would the minister agree that instead of curtailing the lending programs of the Ontario Development Corporation in a period of economic slowdown, the government should be expanding them? Does he intend to make them more flexible to help spur economic recovery? Can the minister indicate when and how this re-examination will be carried out and completed?

Mr. Roy: Just give Claude a year or two and he will fix that

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: Mr. Speaker, I think I indicated to the hon. member that there was no intention to curtail the operations of the Ontario Development Corporation. The context of what I said, if he had been listening, was that it’s intended to change the thrust in order to respond more quickly to some of the requests and to do exactly what the hon. member suggests -- to be able to be a lending agency and to assist people.

Mr. Wildman: Is it flexible?

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: We may very well want to change the thrust of the development corporation in that way.

Mr. Martel: What is the deadline?

Hon. Mr. Rhodes: I don’t put deadlines on anything.

ENERGY BOARD HEARINGS

Mr. Pope: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Minister of Energy. In view of the fact that the minister is meeting today with a delegation from the Federation of Northern Ontario Municipalities concerning energy matters, would the minister inform the House whether the minister will fund, in whole or in part, interveners’ costs of energy board interventions of that organization?

Is the minister contemplating limiting by regulation the number of interim rate applications and rate applications that may be presented by any one applicant to the Ontario Energy Board other than pass-throughs of federal energy board decisions? Finally, is the minister aware of movements of the northern Ontario municipalities to refuse to sign gas franchise agreements with Northern and Central Gas or its successors?

Mr. Roy: Glad you asked.

Hon. Mr. Baetz: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that, as the hon. member has noted, we are meeting with this delegation this afternoon, I think it would be premature and therefore inappropriate for me to answer that question at this time. I’m well aware of the issues he has raised --

Ms. Gigantes: Oh, tell us, come on.

Hon. Mr. Baetz: We are looking forward to a constructive meeting this afternoon.

Mr. Laughren: Good question.

An hon. member: You’d better cross the floor.

Mr. Cassidy: It’s pretty grim when even your own members ask questions like that.

Mr. Speaker: I missed the government party in one rotation. I’m going to recognize the hon. member for Mississauga South.

TAX EXEMPTION

Mr. Kennedy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question of the Minister of Revenue. With respect to the exemption of hotel and motel rooms from the retail sales taxes contained in the budget, would he clarify how this applies to such facilities as housekeeping cottages and cabins and so forth in respect to the summer tourist trade?

Hon. Mr. Maeck: Mr. Speaker, the member is obviously referring to the bill that is before the Legislature now -- the amendment to the Retail Sales Tax Act. The amendment would cover hotels and motels, and any tourist lodge that would be on the American plan would also be covered. It will cover housekeeping cottages and cabins provided, of course, they are not rented for a longer period of time than one month.

Mr. Kerrio: I have a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the minister could advise us if he is doing anything to monitor prices for accommodation to see if some people are going to take advantage of it, when the tax is lifted, to raise the price?

Ms. Gigantes: Oh, heavens no.

Hon. Mr. Maeck: Not at this time.

Mr. Martel: Not at this time. The business community wouldn’t do that. You can’t trust anybody over there.

MOTION

SITTINGS OF HOUSE

Hon. Mr. Welch moved that on Thursday next, March 16, this House will meet at 10 a.m. for the purpose of considering Bill 59 in committee and third reading. The House will adjourn for the luncheon interval at approximately one p.m. and resume at two p.m., at which time the normal routine proceedings will be called.

Motion agreed to.

Hon. Mr. Welch: Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to that motion. It has been accomplished because of the co-operation of a number of people, including the member for St. George who had special responsibilities in the consideration of this bill, to rearrange the program. I do want to publicly thank all the members who have made it possible for us to add this extra time for the consideration of this bill.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CROWN TIMBER AMENDMENT ACT

Hon. F. S. Miller moved first reading of Bill 35,

An Act to amend the Crown Timber Act.

Motion agreed to.

Hon. F. S. Miller: Mr. Speaker, further to the statement I made earlier today, this bill provides in substance for the amalgamation of the management charge and forest protection charge into one area charge and for the authority to make regulations that fix or determine Crown dues by formulas employing commodity price indices.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY AMENDMENT ACT

Mr. Williams moved first reading of Bill 36,

An Act to amend the Legislative Assembly Act.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Williams: Mr. Speaker, the amendment would require a person who holds office as a member of a council of a municipality and whose term of office is not yet three-quarters expired to resign his office on official nomination day if he wishes to be elected to the assembly.

PUBLIC HOSPITALS AMENDMENT ACT

Mr. Williams moved first reading of Bill 37,

An Act to amend the Public Hospitals Act.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Williams: Mr. Speaker, this bill establishes several requirements relating to the composition of boards of public hospitals. The bill provides that the number of appointed directors who have a vote shall not exceed one-quarter of the elected directors. In addition, the bill establishes certain criteria for membership in a hospital corporation and guarantees a member’s right to vote in the hospital corporation.

FAMILY DAY ACT

Mr. Williams moved first reading of Bill 38,

An Act respecting Family Day.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Williams: Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this bill is to provide for a public holiday known as Family Day. Family Day is established as a day to celebrate the institution of the family and will be held on a day to be named by the Lieutenant Governor.

[3:15]

LABOUR RELATIONS AMENDMENT ACT

Mr. Williams moved first reading of Bill 39,

An Act to amend the Labour Relations Act.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Williams: Mr. Speaker, the bill requires a trade union to provide additional information about its financial affairs to its members and to the Ontario Labour Relations Board. A union must prepare a statement of salaries, expenses, fees and commissions, and a statement of investments, to be provided to its members. An audited financial report must be filed annually with the board, and the members of the trade union may obtain copies of the statement from the union upon request and without charge.

In addition, the bill limits the amount of union funds provided by Ontario members that may be transferred outside Canada; and requires that investments made of union funds be of the type authorized by the Trustee Act and the Pension Benefits Act.

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY ACT

Mrs. Campbell moved first reading of Bill 40,

An Act to provide for the Economic Equality of the Sexes.

Motion agreed to.

Mrs. Campbell: Mr. Speaker, the bill provides a remedy to an individual who is affected by discrimination on the basis of sex, practised by employers who are the recipients of public funds. The bill permits a person to apply to a court for an order suspending the payment of public funds to any employer who discriminates in employment practices on the basis of sex. The employer may apply to a court to terminate the order when the employer is no longer conducting such discriminatory practices.

This bill is intended to complement the family law legislation, which one hopes will one day pass this Legislature.

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

Mr. Speaker: Before the orders of the day, I remind hon. members that pursuant to standing order 28, the hon. member for Bellwoods (Mr. McClellan) has indicated he is dissatisfied with the answer to a question provided by the Minister of Community and Social Services (Mr. Norton). This matter will be debated at 10:30.

Similarly, the hon. member for Carleton East (Ms. Gigantes) has indicated that she is dissatisfied with a question answered by the Minister of Health (Mr. Timbrell). This will be debated at 10:40 this evening.

ANSWER TO WRITTEN QUESTION

Hon. Mr. Welch: Mr. Speaker, before the orders of the day, I wish to table the answer to question No. 12 standing on the notice paper.

Just before some of the members go to other responsibilities, they know we will be calling the first order; if the member for Ottawa Centre (Mr. Cassidy) has completed before 6 p.m. it was understood that we would go into committee of the whole and start Bill 59. I therefore thought I would advise members there was some likelihood of them being required in the committee of the whole as well, following completion of remarks on the budget by the member for Ottawa Centre, which will be some time later on this afternoon.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET DEBATE (CONTINUED)

Resumption of the adjourned debate on the motion that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government.

Mr. Cassidy: Mr. Speaker, these are solemn and difficult times. Statistics Canada reported today that for the first time in our history more than one million Canadians are out of work. Three hundred and twenty-six thousand men and women are out of work in the province of Ontario, and that’s 10,000 more than in the month of January. Yet the budget which the government brought down last week contains not one single proposal for creating full-time jobs in Ontario. Instead, it does its best to justify a policy of total inaction by Ontario’s Conservative government.

When this budget came down last Tuesday, my colleagues and I said that it was outrageous. The reaction of the past seven days clearly demonstrates just how strongly that opinion is shared, both by the press and by the people of Ontario. The news that the economic situation is still worsening underlines just how bankrupt this government has become. It is outrageous that when 326,000 people are unemployed in Ontario the government’s only proposal for creating jobs is for 13,000 summer jobs for students.

It’s outrageous that there is no meaningful action to bring about the fundamental, structural changes in our economy that even the Treasury recognizes that Ontario needs. It’s outrageous that property tax relief for senior citizens is being deliberately delayed. It’s outrageous that the municipalities of Ontario have been manipulated into a loss of nearly half a billion dollars in provincial grants which they can only replace by turning yet again to property taxpayers.

It’s outrageous that Ontario has provided yet another tax break to the mining industry and one which is certain to lead to the export of jobs. Above all, it is outrageous that the Treasurer (Mr. McKeough) should have again increased health premiums in order to avoid bringing a tax increase before this Legislature. This budget is part of the same pattern which was set when the Premier (Mr. Davis) went to the first ministers’ conference in Ottawa last month. The pattern was confirmed in the Throne Speech three weeks ago.

Even with Ontario facing its worst economic crisis in 40 years, the Conservative government is not prepared to act. This government has totally abdicated its responsibility for the health of Ontario’s economy and is passing the buck to the federal government and to the private sector.

Mr. Haggerty: You’ve been reading Peterson’s speech.

Mr. Cassidy: I listened for a while, but it was very difficult.

Not only that, but the Treasurer has joined forces with every reactionary influence in Canadian society in a chorus of simplistic solutions whose main thrust is to blame the public sector for the failures of Conservative and Liberal governments.

In short, this budget sets out to punish the people of Ontario for the mistakes of the Treasurer and his predecessors. We cannot accept that approach and neither will the people of Ontario.

Before I go into the specifics of this budget, I want to remind this House that the Treasurer’s promises and forecasts cannot be believed. Two years ago, be promised to bring his budget deficit down to $1 billion. He was $300 million out. Last year he made the same promise again, but as the New Democratic Party correctly predicted, the figures were trumped up for pre-election purposes and the Treasurer was $600 million out.

Ontario fell 20,000 jobs short of the Treasurer’s promise of 85,000 jobs in 1975. We were 40,000 jobs short of the Treasurer’s promise in 1976. If last year’s inadequate job creation programs resulted in only 73,000 new jobs, which was 16,000 short of the Treasurer’s target, how can anyone be expected to believe this year’s target when the government plans to do even less? The Treasurer seems to be saying that the picture is so rosy that nothing needs to be done now about Ontario’s economic problems.

That is precisely the line he took last year when he said, “I think there is every reason to be optimistic about the outlook for 1977.” What a piece of pre-election bravado that turned out to be. Last year the Treasurer saw such signs of solid strength that our economy grew by only 2.7 per cent and our unemployment rose to the present level of 326,000.

The pattern of misrepresentation which the Treasurer adopted last year continues in this year’s budget. Last year the Treasurer redefined full employment from the traditional level of three per cent unemployed to a 5.3 per cent level in order to justify his failure to adequately manage the economy. Now he has devoted yet another budget paper to rationalizing 5.3 per cent unemployment as a full employment target. Yes, the Treasurer uses those words in his budget and uses that as yet another excuse for inaction.

Not only that; hours before the start of International Women’s Day the Treasurer announced that he is prepared to accept an unemployment rate for women, 25 years and over, that is nearly twice the rate that he will tolerate for men. That sexist approach will not do in Ontario in 1978.

The Treasurer was caught out on so many fronts last year that he has been a shade more careful in his forecasts for 1978. After all, this is not an election year. But Ontario is still being led down the garden path by this Treasurer. In last year’s budget, Darcy McKeough mortgaged the store with a $1.6-billion deficit, and now he is selling the mortgages in an effort to apply some fiscal vanishing cream to his deficit.

Mr. Speaker: I must remind the hon. member that it is customary in this House to refer to another member by his riding name rather than by his surname.

Mr. Cassidy: Mr. Speaker, the Duke of Chatham-Kent; I will refer to him that way constantly.

The same day this budget was coming down, there was a new budget in the province of Saskatchewan. What a contrast there was between sunny Saskatchewan and the gloomy Ontario of this Treasurer.

Mr. Lewis: Utopia; Valhalla.

Mr. Cassidy: Thanks to the two budgets, Saskatchewan will have the lowest rates of tax of people earning $13,000 a year in Canada and Ontario will have the highest rates of tax. Senior citizens and municipalities get more aid in Saskatchewan. They are denied it under this budget here in Ontario.

The jobs that are being provided in Saskatchewan will benefit 20 per cent of its unemployed workers, while the full-time jobs in Ontario’s budget don’t even touch one per cent of our unemployed. It makes one think that the time has come to end the Tory reign in Ontario and bring on an NDP government.

Mr. Lewis: Of which the Liberals will be a part, like it or not.

Ms. Cassidy: In the opinion of my party, the raising of OHIP premiums is the single most offensive action of the 1978 Ontario budget. The facts of the health premium increase are not new but they should be put on the record again.

In the first place, this is the second time in two years that premiums are being raised, and effective May 1 they will be double the 1976 level.

Mr. Martel: The Treasurer should be ashamed of himself.

Mr. Cassidy: Here is what people in different provinces will pay for health insurance on that date: Newfoundland, no premiums; Prince Edward Island, poor Prince Edward Island, no premiums; Nova Scotia, no premiums; New Brunswick, no premiums; Manitoba, no premiums; Saskatchewan, no premiums. Six provinces of this country have got the secret that somehow escapes this Treasurer.

Mr. Lupusella: Why don’t you clean your books?

Mr. Cassidy: In the deep-blue Conservative province of Alberta there is a maximum premium of $169.20 for a family of four. In British Columbia -- somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan -- there is a maximum of $225 a year in premiums. In Quebec there is a payroll tax of 1.5 per cent of net income, and no more than $235 a year.

Now we come to rich, prosperous Ontario --

Mr. Martel: Under the Tories for 34 years.

Mr. Cassidy: -- under the Tories, where a premium for a typical family of four is a staggering $528 a year.

Some hon. members: Shame.

Mr. Martel: Resign.

Mr. Cassidy: Ontario will be raising 34 per cent of its health cost from premiums, compared with 10 to 15 per cent in the other provinces that have premiums.

And, as I read into the record in the question period today, a worker earning the average wage of $13,400 in this province will pay 8.4 per cent of his net income in health premiums alone,

whereas somebody earning $25,000 a year will only be paying 3.8 per cent of net income. This is the most regressive tax that Ontario could have levied but, wonder of wonders, that is the one that the Treasurer chose. I say, and we say, that is shameful.

Through the order in council that was passed before this budget debate even began, Ontario will have the dubious distinction of raising more money in health insurance premiums than through the corporation income tax. That is the kind of priorities this Treasurer has. A family of four that earns $10,000 will pay more in health premiums than it pays in federal and provincial income tax combined.

[3:30]

This government keeps on insisting that the workers will not feel any effect of this increase because their health premiums are paid for by their employers. Just ask any worker about that the next time his contract comes up for negotiation. If this $144 increase is paid for by the employer, it will be taxable and it is at the expense of other wage gains, whether or not the workers are under the Anti-Inflation Board. We think it is grotesque that OHIP premiums are being raised by a staggering 37.5 per cent when workers are being held to pay increases of only six per cent.

Not only that, but any flat rate tax like these health premiums hits people on low incomes far harder than people in the Treasurer’s tax bracket. And he’s getting a tax cut on his cigars as well. It is ironic that a government which says that it favours small business should be loading this additional burden on to small business people and that a government that says it wants to help farmers, whose real income has been falling steadily for the last four years, should be loading this new burden on to their backs.

We find it particularly arrogant of this Treasurer that he and his government are choosing to use a legislative loophole in order to impose this $271-million tax increase without seeking approval from this House. The Treasurer has no shame. He doesn’t even try to disguise this as a premium increase any more; he agrees that it is a tax action but he will not come to this Legislature. We believe it is a fundamental principle of parliamentary democracy that there should be no taxation without legislation.

Let me be very clear about the position of the New Democratic Party. We are opposed to this OHIP premium increase and we will do everything we can to stop it. Specifically, today I will be moving a no-confidence motion separate from the budget debate because this is the only parliamentary means at hand to stop this outrageous tax demand. We have already tried the other routes. We have appealed to you, Mr. Speaker, for a ruling that this tax increase must come before the House and I’m afraid that you did not see things our way.

We have asked both the Treasurer and the Premier himself if they will understand the principles of parliamentary democracy which are involved and bring this premium increase before the Legislature, either by resolution or in the form of legislation. That has been refused. The member for Scarborough-Ellesmere (Mr. Warner) has introduced a private member’s bill which will have the effect of changing the Health Insurance Act, but it is already clear that the Conservative Party intends to block that particular piece of legislation which will come before the House on March 30.

Because the House leader of the Conservative Party decides whether that bill will go further or not, it is not an effective and sure means of blocking this particular premium increase before it is due to take effect on May 1.

That is why we do not believe it is sufficient to simply move a general no-confidence motion which would come to a vote only in December. That is why we will be moving a motion specifically related to the health premium increase and designed so it can be debated right after the school break in late March or early April so that this Legislature can decide whether or not health premiums should be increased now.

I will read the motion, Mr. Speaker, which I will be sending up to you and which will be seconded by the member for Nickel Belt (Mr. Laughren). It says very simply that this House condemns the government’s outrageous decision to raise Ontario health insurance premiums to the highest level in Canada; deplores the regressive impact of this arbitrary tax increase on wage earners in general, on farmers and small businesses and in particular on people of modest incomes; condemns the government’s affront to the fundamental parliamentary principle of no taxation without legislation; and that for all these reasons this House no longer has confidence in the government.

We will be moving that motion. I appeal to members from all parties to consider their position very carefully because it is in the hands of this Legislature to decide whether or not the OHIP premium increase goes forward. We will be having a vote in the near future to make that decision and I hope that everybody in this House votes on behalf of the people of the province of Ontario and not on the narrow and ideological kind of doctrine that has been put forward by the Treasurer of this province.

We will also do everything in our power to get property tax relief for pensioners which the Treasurer has deliberately postponed in this budget. It is a cruel deception to talk of this relief and then to delay its implementation into the indefinite future. Pensioners, in our opinion, deserve property tax relief now.

The shell game that the Treasurer -- that the Duke of Kent is playing with the municipalities is equally deceptive. Last year at this time, municipalities were owed $18 million by the province under the promise that Ontario made five years ago to give municipalities and school boards a fair share of its increase in revenue, but under the Conservatives this province can no longer be trusted to live up to its promises. Last September, the Treasurer unilaterally repudiated this pledge, and suddenly the municipalities found themselves $298 million in deficit.

Last Tuesday, there was not even a blush of shame on the Treasurer’s face as he announced that the Edmonton commitment was now reformulated -- mark the word, Mr. Speaker -- and put the municipalities in the hole to the tune of $444 million.

That kind of manipulation means only one thing, less money for municipalities from the province, and therefore more money will need to be raised from property taxpayers who already are too hard pressed in Ontario.

As we prepared for this budget, we tried to imagine what would be the most predictable and least helpful tax move the government could make. Sure enough, there are even more tax breaks for the mining industry, and even the Treasurer admits in this House this time that his measures may not create a single new job for up to five years. We don’t think that these concessions will create a single new job at any time.

The Conservative government cannot resist its obsession to give handouts to the mining industry, yet both Inco and Falconbridge testified before the select committee on the Sudbury layoffs that their problem lay in shrinking world markets and not in the level of taxation in this province. That reality is simply ignored by the Treasurer, just as this government ignored the recommendations of that select committee.

Ontario has offered a new tax exemption for foreign processing, which is certain to export jobs which could and should be created in northern Ontario. Ontario’s gifts to its mining sector are rapidly becoming a legend in the western world. Only days ago, against the clear will of a majority of members of this House, the government signed contracts that will give windfall profits exceeding $2 billion to two private uranium companies. The market value of the shares of Denison Mines alone has risen by $57 million from the time those contracts were announced last December until the day they were signed early this month.

And how do the people of Ontario benefit from our natural resources? Just compare, Mr. Speaker. If we’re lucky, we can expect mining tax revenues this year, from every mine in the province, of $33 million.

Mr. Martel: Oh boy!

Mr. Cassidy: And that compares with $57 million that went into the pockets of shareholders of one mine thanks to the stroke of the pen by William Davis and Darcy McKeough.

When is this government ever going to learn that these mindless, blanket concessions to the mining industry are of no public benefit and must come to an end?

I want to mention only briefly the other tax measures announced in the budget. We have misgivings about the levy on railway rolling stock because we fear this may be particularly directed to the public sector by its impact on the Toronto Transit Commission and Canadian National Railways. Surely now is not the time to be doing anything that might discourage public transportation of freight or of passengers.

There’s nothing wrong with a tax exemption on storm doors, but we are puzzled that a government which could not find $5 million last year for the home insulation program promised in the election campaign, has now found $15 million for a tax concession which is likely to have less impact, both in reducing energy consumption and in increasing employment.

We support the sales tax exemptions for the hospitality industry, because it is the only gesture in the entire budget towards meeting the economic needs of northern Ontario and because it is the only concrete policy directed to the needs of a particular industry.

It’s now seven years since this Treasurer first introduced tax giveaways for capital investment by corporations. Whether they were called investment tax credits or sales tax rebates, there has been no evidence that these incentives help to create jobs. With this budget the Treasurer has introduced a document that purports to have the answers; it wasn’t worth the wait.

This is just another self-serving document designed to prove the government’s case. The only evidence offered by the Treasury is a prediction based on a computer model that the tax rebate would stimulate investment. What is particularly disturbing is the estimate in the same paper that the tax rebate program will eliminate 15,000 jobs this year as machines put people out of work.

That fact alone should justify withdrawing this tax concession particularly when that step would free up $178 million for real job creation. We opposed the extension of this machinery tax credit when it was made permanent 18 months ago and nothing has been offered to change the reasons for our opposition.

Likewise, last year we opposed a further $80 million handout to corporations which Ontario offered through fast write-offs and we are still opposed to that. To put it very simply, we believe that Ontario should be taking action to create jobs and not to destroy them.

Mr. Lewis: All those years, we said you were wrong and now your own statistics prove it.

Mr. Cassidy: Six thousand jobs destroyed last year; 15,000 jobs destroyed this year; and some promise that something might happen in the future. It just isn’t good enough when we have more than 300,000 unemployed and the government won’t bring any concrete action in in order to create jobs.

Let me sum up for a minute: As last year, we believe that the machinery tax exemption should be removed and that its cost of $178 million should be put back into consolidated revenue; and while we oppose the OHIP premium increase in order to protect individual taxpayers, we are prepared to go along with the Treasurer’s plan to raise $122 million from business. This is his estimate of how much corporations would contribute to the government through the increase in OHIP premiums. We would also like to recoup the $80 million that was given away last year for the fast write-off.

It seems to us, in the current economic situation, that the best means of achieving these two goals would be to raise corporation tax by two points, except for the small business rates, which would stay at 11 per cent. This would put us in the middle range of corporate tax rates for Canadian provinces and leave the income tax burden on corporations in Ontario still a full five percentage points below neighbouring US states, according to the Treasurer’s own figures, and therefore more than competitive.

We also think that this is a prudent step in view of the program for job creation which will benefit the people of the province and business in the province much more directly than anything offered by the Treasurer.

That brings me to the single most glaring failure of this budget. The failure to take any effective action to help reduce unemployment.

At least there was some pretence of concern last year. The 1977 pre-election budget promised to accelerate $75 million in capital projects and thereby create 3,356 jobs. But the tide started to turn as soon as the votes were cast. By September, the Treasurer had decided to prune all but the most essential capital projects. He stepped on the gas in April, and slammed on the brakes in September.

There are now 326,000 people out of work in Ontario, the highest total in our history. There are 30,000 people out of work in the Ottawa area, where I live, and the unemployment rate is 8.8 per cent. Unemployment is 11 per cent in St. Catharines. It’s 11.9 per cent in Windsor. It’s over 10 per cent in the Peterborough area. Over 10 per cent in Hamilton-Niagara. Over 10 per cent around Georgian Bay and Lake Huron, and over 10 per cent in the north. Here, in Metropolitan Toronto, there are more than 100,000 people looking for work, and yet there is not a single specific new measure for creating full-time jobs in this budget.

The budget ignores the 142,000 young people who are unemployed now and focuses only on summer jobs for students who are still finishing their terms or their high school careers. There is not even a word of concern for the 88,000 women over 25 who are also out of work. In fact, the Treasurer has not told them that chronic unemployment is going to be a way of life so long as he is running affairs in this particular province.

[3:45]

We in the New Democratic Party just cannot understand how a government can be so heartless and so unconcerned. We believe that a job creation program for Ontario is absolutely essential to meet the current crisis.

We recognize that government, business and the people of Ontario must share in the solution of our unemployment crisis. We cannot afford to have a government that sits back and does nothing. I want to outline for this House what New Democrats think Ontario should be doing to help create jobs now.

First, we propose that Ontario should respond to two of our major manpower problems -- the shortage of jobs for young workers and the need for skilled workers -- by adopting a new approach to apprenticeships in industry. We believe that skills training should be a responsibility of industry, but that this responsibility should be taken over gradually. We propose that this year Ontario should share the cost of apprenticeships and training positions with industry on a 50-50 basis, a powerful incentive which could provide jobs and vital training for 10,000 young people at an estimated cost of $40 million.

Second, Ontario should bring in a program to conserve energy and to supplement the disastrously inadequate federal home insulation program. As of March 3 there have been fewer than 10,000 applications for that program out of nearly a million eligible housing units in Ontario. The federal program is obviously not going to work by itself. We propose a program of loan guarantees, coupled with a full interest subsidy which would encourage every house owner in the province to upgrade their insulation standards and save energy. This kind of plan could reach 100,000 homes per year at a cost of $10 million. We estimate it would create 2,300 full-time jobs.

We also believe it is time for Ontario to make a major commitment to the development of renewable energy resources as a counterpoint to its massive nuclear program. The solar energy industry in this province is on the verge of a breakthrough in consumer acceptance which will not only create employment and save energy in Ontario, but could also lead to major benefits and exports. We propose that Ontario make that breakthrough a reality by offering a $1,500 subsidy per unit to equip new houses with solar heating equipment. The cost to provide this subsidy for 20,000 new homes would be $30 million.

We estimate that it would directly create 1,500 jobs and that there would be enormous indirect benefit as well.

There is still an urgent need for housing for senior citizens in Ontario as well as for families of low and moderate incomes. This need is getting more acute by the day because of the government’s decision to end its involvement in housing. It’s time for Ontario to give serious encouragement to the co-operative and non-profit housing sector which it has so deliberately shelved in the past. This sector of the housing market will respond rapidly if given the chance. We propose a program to build an additional 7,000 cooperative and non-profit housing units this year for people of low and modest income.

The incentive would be a capital grant of $5,000 per unit. The cost would be $35 million and it would create 14,000 new jobs in construction and in the building materials industry -- two industries that are the hardest hit by unemployment.

We also propose that Ontario begin to meet the enormous need for assisted housing. Last fall there were more than 8,000 families and 15,000 senior citizens on the waiting list for Ontario housing. Thousands more have simply given up hope. We propose the construction of an additional 2,000 units for families and 2,000 senior citizens’ units this year. Enough funding is available from the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation that the net cost to the province would be a maximum of $85 million. We estimate that this would create a further 8,000 new jobs on site and in construction materials.

There is a clear need for rehabilitation as part of Ontario’s overall housing policy, and the Ontario Home Renewal Program has already proven that it can do the job if it’s given the resources. We propose a $25 million expansion of OHRP to facilitate the upgrading of existing homes, particularly for families of modest income. This would create an estimated 1,500 full-time jobs this year.

The needs of the north have been totally ignored in this budget, as if the layoffs of Inco and Falconbridge and the high unemployment in the northwest had never taken place. We want action to create long-term jobs in the north, but right now there is a need to create municipal services and the benefits that would accrue would be permanent. We propose that $25 million be allocated in special grants for hard services in northern Ontario to help to close the gap for this unemployed part of the province, and we estimate that this would create approximately 1,000 new jobs.

Now is also the time to take advantage of a large number of provincial and municipal capital projects that are on the shelf, approved and ready to go. With the current slack in the construction industry, these projects could be under way by this summer.

We propose that Ontario provide $150 million to accelerate provincial and municipal projects, like the Toronto Board of Education’s program to bring its older buildings up to municipal health and safety standards; the city of Windsor’s expansion of its sewer system into previously unserviced areas that are now on septic tanks; the problems of redevelopment of the Burwash site in Sudbury; and Sudbury region’s local services improvement program; and the provincial office tower in Hamilton which was chopped by the Treasurer last September.

In Cornwall, there is a $1.7 million grade separation project that has been cancelled because of lack of funds on the part of the city; and there are similar projects on the shelf in every part of Ontario that are ready to go if Ontario would give the green light. We estimate that acceleration of these projects would generate 7,500 new jobs, on and off construction sites, and respond to the particular needs of an industry whose rates of unemployment are the highest of any industry in Ontario.

The total cost of our job creation program would be approximately $400 million and it would create 45,800 jobs. These are not make-work jobs, Mr. Speaker; every one of these proposals meets a recognized need. Each of these proposals would be of long-term benefit, whether in housing, in government service, in conserving energy or in providing the skilled workers we will need to make Ontario’s industry competitive in the 1980s. The McKeough budget only creates 142 long-term jobs, this program of the New Democratic Party would create 45,800 jobs; and that is the kind of leadership that we would have for Ontario.

The failure of the Davis government to come to grips with the long-term problems of the Ontario economy is just as glaring as its failure to create jobs now. Just three years ago, in 1975, this Treasurer seemed to feel that the province could play an active role in securing the future of our economy. Not any more; now he has embraced the creed that government should do nothing but abdicate its responsibility. It has become fashionable for government to attack its own role and to assert that its activities should be limited to limiting itself.

The Treasurer’s view of economic strategy and that of the New Democratic Party could not be further apart. He is a cheerleader and an apologist for the lack of action by the government. The Treasurer’s stance is passive; ours is active.

All the evidence is that we have been frittering away our advantages in Ontario under the Conservative government, and now Ontario is paying the price of a Conservative government’s mismanagement. We’ve been living high on our natural resources and we have failed to be vigilant, either in building our industrial economy or in protecting the province from the damaging consequences of foreign ownership.

The key to our economic future in Ontario is self-reliance, but the Conservatives, under this Premier and Treasurer, have done all that they could to move us in the opposite direction. Whether you talk tourism or manufacturing trade, investment flows or research and management fees, we are simply not doing enough for ourselves and relying far too much on others. In the long term, both Ontario and Canada will pay the price.

We’ve always been able to count on the strength of our resource sector, but now even that strength is disappearing. The reason is not just the temporary weakness in world mineral markets. It’s the mismanagement of our northern forest by this government; it’s the failure to build industry in the north when our resources were most important in world markets. Our challenge is to build this province’s industrial economy in the difficult times that lie ahead, because the Tories failed to do the job when we were enjoying good times in the late 1960s and the early 1970s.

We will not succeed if we stand back, as the Treasurer tells us, and rely on the private sector alone. Ontario must use the power, the influence and the leadership of government in order to nurture and develop our manufacturing base rather than leave it prey to the monopoly capitalism that the Tories call free enterprise. Industry is crying out for co-operation with government; we believe that government should respond.

To have a real economic strategy, you must have goals and a view of the future and a sense of how to achieve it. Government must be willing to share responsibility with the private sector for reaching these goals. This means a new kind of relationship between the public sector and the private sector. We have to replace the generalized concessions that the Treasurer loves so much with initiatives that would respond to specific areas of weakness and specific problems in the economy. We have to target the use of government assistance and of government resources and we should expect to get a return for the public from the use of public funds.

Ontario faces serious economic problems. The proportion of our labour force in manufacturing has been shrinking to the point where the Science Council of Canada says that this country and its industrial heartland here in Ontario are becoming semi-industrialized.

The Ontario Economic Council’s forecast for the next 10 years also makes depressing reading. It suggests that over the next decade the number of manufacturing jobs in Ontario will grow by only 11,000 jobs per year. Even this estimate lacks credibility when one considers that over the past 10 years, despite all of the boasts of the Treasurer, jobs in manufacturing have grown at only half that rate; that is, at only 5,000 or 6,000 jobs per year.

One has to ask where this province is going when the Ontario Economic Council relies heavily on the growth of the government sector to meet Ontario’s employment targets over the next 10 years while the Duke of Chatham-Kent, the Treasurer of Ontario, proudly reports that he has brought the growth in public sector employment to a complete halt. Those contradictions cannot persist without seeing unemployment rise to levels which have been precedent in this country before only in areas like Newfoundland, and that’s not acceptable for Ontario.

The symptoms of our industrial malaise have been evident in the headlines week after week over the past year, and that’s one of the reasons that we are shocked at the lack of action by the Treasurer. Ontario is now losing more than 15,000 jobs a year through layoffs and shutdowns, and these are only the figures that are reported to the Ministry of Labour. The list is almost endless: 165 jobs at the Chrysler trim plant at Ajax; another 100 jobs or more at Chrysler down in Windsor; 78 jobs lost at Northern Telecom in Brampton; 485 jobs lost at International Harvester in Hamilton; 136 jobs at Shepherd boats in Niagara Falls --

Mr. Peterson: Stephen already did this.

Mr. Cassidy: It’s worth listening to, I say to the member for London Centre.

Mr. Swart: My leader is upstaging the member.

Mr. Peterson: I listened to him last time, and it was better than yours.

Mr. Cassidy: It is very much worth listening to, because this is what is happening to our industry in this province because the Conservatives are asleep at the switch and letting our industrial base decline.

Continuing with the list: 275 jobs at Bethlehem Steel’s ore mine in Marmora; 250 at Pilkington Brothers in Scarborough; 280 next month at Reed National Drapery in Weston; 700 jobs in May at Christie Brown bakeries in Toronto; and 3,000 workers at Inco and Falconbridge in Sudbury and Port Colborne. Is this really the time for government to stand aside, as the Treasurer pretends? We do not believe so.

Mr. Peterson: There’s a lot of criticism there.

Mr. Cassidy: And the criticism is well deserved.

I want to outline our strategy for a series of industries and for a series of major areas to which we would give priority if we were the government. I also want to underline how many of our problems are due to the fact that Ontario’s industry is so heavily foreign-controlled. This is the biggest single structural weakness in Ontario’s economy but, far from recognizing the consequences of foreign ownership in Ontario and trying to deal with them, Ontario looks the other way. Both here and in Ottawa the Treasurer and the Premier have vigorously lobbied to tear down the fragile and inadequate barriers that Canada has tried to erect against foreign economic domination.

In blithe ignorance of the problems created by truncated branch plant operations in this province, the Minister of Industry and Tourism (Mr. Rhodes ) -- and I’m sorry he isn’t here -- made his debut last month with an enthusiastic invitation to Japanese investors to bring more branch plants into this province. One of the reasons we question that kind of appeal is the fact that, as the Ontario Economic Council has pointed out in the study of business investment released just before the budget, our industry is 60 per cent foreign-owned, yet only six per cent of its financing comes from abroad.

In other words, the continued foreign domination of our industry, with all the consequences that entails, is financed almost exclusively by money that is raised here in Canada.

[4:00]

Mr. Wildman: A sellout.

Mr. Cassidy: The consequences of foreign ownership are felt in every corner of our economy, through weaknesses in research, in marketing, in access to markets like the US, in innovation, in purchasing within Canada which could help develop small business; and even at times in the degree of company participation in local community life.

The way to solving these problems starts here in this chamber. Government must be prepared to provide leadership and direction in the economy. It must focus its efforts on the specific areas and industries where that help is needed, rather than spreading its efforts so thin that they have no impact. Government must be prepared to act as a counterbalance to the adverse consequences of foreign ownership here in the Ontario economy.

I want to focus specifically on four industries during this budget reply to give an idea of the approach that we in the New Democratic Party will be taking. I also want to say that during the budget debate my colleagues will be dealing with some of these sectors in more detail to demonstrate that our priority in the New Democratic Party is jobs and the building of Ontario’s economy.

This priority will not be reflected only in the budget debate; over the course of the coming months, the coming years, up to whenever the next election comes, whether it is in May or in 1979 or in 1980, we are going to focus on these economic issues. We are going to focus on the weaknesses of industry for which this government is responsible, and we are going to focus on all of the broad areas of industrial policy in which this government has been letting Ontario down.

I also want to say a word of tribute and of thanks to the researchers in the New Democratic Party research department who, three or four weeks ago, were faced with the challenge of adapting to a new leader and coming up with background material both for my reply on the Throne Speech two-and-a-half weeks ago and for this major speech on the budget. They are as fine a crew as we have ever had working for the New Democratic Party; and I want to tell you, Mr.

Speaker, five or six New Democratic Party researchers have on occasion in the history of this province come very close to bringing the entire government of the Tories, that has been in power for 30-odd years, with all its civil servants and all its resources, right to its knees and almost to the point of being thrown out. They have come very close in the past, and we will do it in the future.

Mr. Lewis: Five or six of them? One, at any moment in time, can take you all on.

Mr. Cassidy: That’s right.

Mr. Warner: They too want you to resign.

Mr. Cassidy: I want to begin with Ontario’s single most important industry, the automobile industry. At the first ministers’ conference, the Premier himself said, “We have had enough studies of the automobile industry. What we need now is action.” His message is not getting through to his own government, despite the disturbing evidence that the automobile industry in Canada faces a very difficult future. Most of the auto industry is here in Ontario, and almost all of it is foreign-controlled.

Despite its expansion since the auto pact was signed 13 years ago, the automobile industry is still an outstanding example of how branch plant structure stands in the way of achieving a strategy that puts Ontario’s needs first. Take the most fundamental factor of investment, on which the Treasurer harps so often. North America’s automobile industry has embarked on a phase of massive retooling to produce the new generation of vehicles which will meet legislative demands for safer cars with less pollution and better gas mileage.

These investment needs are estimated at around $2 billion a year for the next few years, but only a small percentage of this investment will be made in Canada. With nine per cent of the North American car market, automotive subsidiaries in Canada currently receive only five per cent of capital investment by the “big four” auto makers. When we are falling this far behind in automotive investment today, how can we hope to have a fair share of jobs in the future?

The federal government’s task force on the automobile industry, which resulted in what is known as the Arthur report, found that 49 per cent of US auto workers are unskilled but 75 per cent of Canadian auto workers are unskilled. In the US, the proportion of skilled workers is four times as high as in Canada. The best jobs go south of the border.

The structure of the industry also favours the US parents when we look at research and development. These expenditures are massively concentrated in the US, but the federal task force calculated that the big automobile companies in Canada had contributed nearly $1.4 billion to the research and development work of their US parent corporations just in the six-year period from 1970 to 1975. Today, that transfer of research and development payments is running at a level approaching $350 million a year.

That represents an enormous loss to Canada, not just in scientific and technical jobs that we could have here, but also in the enormous benefits that we would gain if Canadian plants or firms were developing new products and processes for the auto industry rather than relying completely on US technology.

The Arthur report provides very strong evidence that costs and productivity in the Canadian auto industry are comparable to the United States and that belies the kinds of myths that we keep getting from Conservative ministers and back-benchers on the other side of this House. Because we are so competitive, it can only be the arbitrary decisions of the big car manufacturers that give us the short end of the stick every time.

Our deficit in trade of automobile parts across the border now runs at more than $3 billion per annum. But in the view of the federal report -- a very careful study -- it is General Motors, Ford, Chrysler and American Motors which are primarily responsible for this imbalance because they control three-fifths of the parts industry. Their decisions about where plants locate determine whether or not Canada gets a fair share of parts production. In other words, any one of these automobile companies alone has more impact this year on the economic health of the province of Ontario than the entire budget brought down last week by the Treasurer.

An hon. member: That’s the way he wants it.

Mr. Cassidy: It’s obvious that our automobile parts deficit doesn’t happen by accident. If we fail to deal with the reasons, we will not solve the problem. It’s no good for the Premier to wave a magic wand and say that Ontario could have 20,000 more jobs by correcting the trade deficit on the auto pact unless this government is prepared to deal with the fundamental problems of the industry. There has been no sign that they were prepared to take that fundamental approach in the past and no signs for the future that they’re prepared to take that step either.

Ontario’s concern for the machinery industry has also been almost non-existent. This industry drains our economic strength in Canada even more than the automobile industry. Last year’s trade deficit in this sector hit the incredible level of $3.8 billion, three times what is was 10 years ago. If we could close this deficit, the provincial Ministry of Industry and Tourism estimates that Ontario would gain 47,000 new jobs. That’s a heck of a cut in the number of unemployed we have in Ontario right now.

Mr. Martel: You are interfering with the free enterprise system.

Mr. Cassidy: What strength there is left in Canada’s machinery sector is dwindling rapidly. Most of that industry is in this province. We are the only industrialized nation that imports more than 50 per cent of our machinery and equipment needs. In fact, foreign producers now supply about 60 per cent of the Canadian market and Canada’s imports of machinery are actually worth more in dollar terms than the imports of machinery for the entire United States, despite the fact that its population and its economy are 10 to 12 times the size of Canada’s.

Mr. Philip: Think what that does.

Mr. Cassidy: The areas where we import the most -- farm equipment, forestry, mining and construction -- are precisely the areas where the Canadian market is large enough to support domestic industry. In mining alone, Canada runs third in world production, but we run a yearly mining machinery and equipment deficit of $750 million and we import fully two-thirds of what we use in machinery in our mines.

Mr. Martel: Why doesn’t the government get involved?

Mr. Cassidy: In forestry, the situation is almost as bad. If the current tariff negotiations in Geneva cut our machinery tariffs by half, the industry estimates that more than half its remaining workers will lose their jobs.

Why doesn’t the Canadian sector of the machinery industry perform better? After all, they’ve been lavished with all sorts of tax incentives by the Treasurer over the past seven years. Perhaps one reason is that three-quarters of the industry’s output is from foreign-controlled subsidiaries, mainly from the United States, Their record for branch plant investment in research and development is terrible. According to the Treasurer himself, American machinery firms employ 79 times more innovators for research and development than do Canadian firms.

Even though Ontario has more than 300,000 unemployed, there is still a shortage of skilled labour in machinery which is so severe that some firms have been recruiting in Britain. Yet the industry has been unwilling to develop apprenticeship programs and the Ontario government has done nothing to force the issue. Obviously, the solution to the problems in the machinery industry are not simple, but the actions of the Ontario government have had no positive impact at all. The Canadian industry is relatively weaker today than when the Treasurer and his government began to promote business investment in machinery and equipment with tax concessions seven years ago.

Private industry initiative on which he is so strong has failed to solve weaknesses in skilled labour and in research in this industry, and despite the enormous market for mining and forestry equipment in Canada, during a resource boom that has lasted in this country for more than 25 years private industry has failed to establish a strong resource machinery sector in Canada. The development of a co-ordinated approach by government and the private sector is not only long overdue in the area of machinery, Mr. Speaker, it is an essential part of an effective economic strategy, and we would do it if we were the government today.

Mr. Martel: It was recommended four years ago too; by your friends.

Mr. Cassidy: If ever there was a case, Mr. Speaker, for government to provide leadership and direction in our economy, it is in the textile industry.

There are 75,000 workers in textiles and clothing in Ontario and the Ontario Economic Council has optimistically advised the Treasurer that there would still be that many jobs 10 years hence. They may be whistling in the wind because the prospects are not good right now; for despite the fact that this industry is as efficient as almost any in the world, its future is in grave jeopardy because of import competition from low-wage countries.

The industry’s problems are chiefly related to uncertainty about its future, and only a commitment from government can assure the industry that it has a future to invest in. Both the Treasurer and his federal counterparts have been all too ready to write off the industry as an inevitable victim of changes in world trade. But the textile industry is by no means dead yet and it should not be written off.

The import share of the textile market has grown only a little since 1970 and is just over a quarter of the value of the Canadian market; we are still fighting back if we have the chance. In clothing imports have doubled their market share since 1970 and the number of garments that are imported is very high, but imports have only recently grown to a quarter of the Canadian market.

We urgently need declaration from government that it is worthwhile having a viable textile and clothing industry and that for this reason the penetration of our market by imported textile and clothing must and will be kept to a tolerable level. That is what the industry is waiting to hear from this government, Mr. Speaker, and that is what it has not been getting from the Treasurer or his federal counterpart.

Many of the firms in the industry are very small; they need help in pooling research and development efforts, in testing and evaluating new equipment and new techniques and in expanding the number of trainees in the industry to fill the growing need for skilled workers. Textile firms are the economic mainstay of many small towns in southern Ontario. The policy of abandonment that the government seems to favour would do immense damage to these communities because the government has no alternative forms of employment to replace the textile firms if they close.

A sectorial study of this industry by the Ontario Ministry of Industry and Tourism concluded, and I quote: “If some confidence in the industry’s ability to maintain or improve its share of the domestic market can be restored, there is every reason to believe that this industry will continue to improve its working conditions, wages, productivity, and its contribution to the economic wealth of this province and the nation. If, however, the continuing reduction in its share of the market persists the outlook is bleak.”

The choice could not be put more clearly than in the ministry’s own words, but because the Treasurer and this government deliberately choose to stand aside, 75,000 jobs in the textile and clothing industry in Ontario are on the line, Mr. Speaker, and we say that is wrong.

Mr. Roy: You will need more co-ordination in your support back there.

Mr. Cassidy: The member for Ottawa East should be clapping as well; it is a better speech than his party’s financial critic gave. Compared to these three industries, Ontario’s performance in steel has been outstanding, Mr. Speaker. This is almost the major manufacturing industry in this province in which we are self-sufficient. The industry is efficient, our prices are 10 per cent to 20 per cent below those of our US competitors, our plant is up-to-date and our technology and research are equal of any steel industry in the world. I think the people and the workers of Hamilton, as well as Sault Ste. Marie, can be proud of what our steel industry has achieved.

Mr. Swart: And Welland.

[4:15]

Mr. Cassidy: And Welland, that’s right. The member for Welland-Thorold (Mr. Swart) mentions Welland as well.

While import competition has been a nightmare for many Ontario industries over the past five years, the flow of imported steel to Ontario has dropped sharply and the industry has been systematically expanding its facilities to make, or to be capable of making, products which were formerly not made here.

It is surely no coincidence that this is the only major Canadian industry which is almost entirely Canadian-owned. And that tells you a story. Mr. Speaker; I hope it tells the government a story as well.

On the dark side, however, the prospects for future growth in steel are very limited. We hold our own in international trade and succeed in exporting to the United States; but it’s another story when we come to products that are made from steel. In fact, we are massive importers of manufactured products made from steel, and there is no prospect that this will change until we get a decisive economic strategy for Ontario.

I have already talked about the situation in automobile parts and in machinery and equipment. Without action by Ontario and the federal government, our deficit in these two industries is bound to continue and the jobs that could exist in Canada, providing primary steel for these industries, will also be lost as an inevitable result.

The situation is very similar in farm implements and the appliance industry, where we also have huge deficits. The demand for steel in the construction industry is weak because of the general weakness of our economy, for which governments carry a major share of the blame.

In fact, the only dynamic future market for Ontario’s steel industry is in the area of energy; yet when he went to Ottawa for the first ministers’ conference, the Premier of Ontario failed to make any concrete proposal to ensure that the Canadian portion of the Alcan pipeline will use Canadian pipe.

Even the apparent health of the steel industry, therefore, speaks to the weakness of the economic strategy of this government; they could not speak up for the protection of jobs in the most dynamic sector of the steel industry in the province, and we say that was wrong. We would have spoken up, and have and will continue to speak up for those steel pipes to be made in Canada.

Mr. Martel: That’s why we voted on it.

Mr. Cassidy: This province and this country are running a spectacular annual trade deficit in manufactured goods of over $10 billion, and that reflects the deep-seated weakness in the structure of our economy. We still depend on the export of resources to support our standard of living and in so doing we are exporting tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of manufacturing jobs.

The exporting of steel products, while we import manufactured goods which incorporate steel, is just another example of the same phenomenon. Ontario’s steel production would go up by millions of tons a year if government moved to help create a strong manufacturing sector to complement the strength of our resource base.

That brings me to the most scandalous failure of all in the Conservative government’s mismanagement of the economy: their failure to take advantage of Ontario’s natural resources and to use them as a base from which to build a strong manufacturing economy. Over the past 30 years we have imported the manufactured goods we need by selling our resources in exchange. Now we are losing the advantage of that resource base and, at the same time, we have failed to develop the industrial base to take its place.

Mining production, for example, has plunged from six per cent of our GPP -- our gross provincial product -- in 1961, to only 3.5 per cent today. And how do the Conservatives react? They don’t just act like spectators at a disaster; they even make things worse by actively encouraging the