British Columbia Hansard — Monday, April 3, 2006

H0403am-10

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, April 3, 2006 Morning Sitting Volume 8, Number 10 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC SECOND SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) ............................................................... East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP)........................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................

Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)..............................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)..............................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay....................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson .....................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S.

Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .....................................................................Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Monday, April 3, 2006 Morning Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Private Members' Statements .................................................................................................... ............................................. 3573 Restoring B.C.'s leadership on tobacco control D. Cubberley R. Hawes Hope for a cure S. Hawkins L. Krog Urban agricultural education V. Roddick B. Ralston Baisakhi H. Lali D. Hayer S.

Hammell Motions on Notice.............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 3581 Armenian genocide remembrance (Motion 59) A. Dix R. Hawes L. Krog J. Nuraney M. Sather J. Yap J. Horgan K. Krueger M. Karagianis D. Hayer R. Fleming

3573 MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 The House met at 10:03 a.m. Prayers. Orders of the Day Hon. C. Richmond: I call private members' statements. Private Members' Statements RESTORING B.C.'S LEADERSHIP ON TOBACCO CONTROL D. Cubberley: I'm pleased today to speak to the issue of tobacco control and the need and opportunity for a comprehensive strategy to reduce the incidence of smoking. It's an issue I feel strongly about as a result of my family's history with tobacco and my own experi- ence with the challenge of quitting. Tobacco is a substance that sets roots deep in our cravings, and it invades our daily life.

It's a vehicle for delivering nicotine, a highly addictive drug, to smok- ers, whose body chemistry comes to demand reinforc- ing doses on a frequent schedule. As a drug, nicotine is as addictive as heroin, yet it remains a commercial product — widely available, broadly promoted and entirely licit to use. [1005] Cigarettes are a trap waiting to be sprung, mar- keted in the guise of a desirable lifestyle choice, as if without consequences. The young are especially vul- nerable, their instincts about danger being dulled by a social posture that makes it cool to dispute received wisdom and sometimes common sense.

Tobacco is insidious. It is the only product that's absolutely lethal when used exactly in the way its manufacturers intend — that is, as a daily habit started young and continuing for a lifetime. Despite the fact that today only about 14 percent of British Columbians smoke tobacco, it remains a scourge, killing some 5,600 people a year at a price of over $1.25 billion. Fourteen percent overall masks the fact that among people aged 20 to 24, the rate of smoking is 22 percent. The habits of parents directly influence those of their children.

I know this from personal experience, having had two smoking parents and having started myself by the age of 14. Today smoking is a lot less glamorous than when I first lit up, but the dynamics of endorsement continue to enable people to start, espe- cially while young. Smoking rates have come down, but smoking remains the single most preventable cause of illness, disability and death in Canada. Each year thousands of young people flirt with smoking without a clear picture of its implications and wind up hooked.

This happens largely because we allow a highly addictive substance to be openly mar- keted and readily accessible to young people. While much can be done to help smokers quit, much more is needed to ensure that they never start. That means ending smoking's promotion as an accepted part of everyday life, and that means taking a more compre- hensive approach to control.

A more comprehensive approach involves reducing use by further restricting supply, raising costs, control- ling how it is advertised and where it's promoted and presented, and affecting its image in at-risk popula- tions by linking it to conseq uences. B.C. has the goal of achieving the healthiest and fittest population in Can- ada. ActNow has a goal of reducing the incidence of smoking by 10 percent by 2010. Organizations compris- ing the B.C. Healthy Living Alliance are calling for more determined action to reach a target smoking rate of 10 percent by 2010.

This goal is attainable if there's the political will in this House to act now. But even the much more modest 10-percent reduc- tion is unattainable if B.C. continues to coast on its lau- rels. Today the only sustained initiative involves strategies that help addicted smokers quit. Smoking cessation is certainly an im portant instrument in the tobacco control tool kit, but it doesn't address the social causes of smoking. An ounc e of prevention is indeed worth a pound of cure. Quitti ng smoking isn't easy to do. I can attest from direct experience that it's better never to start — far better.

During the '90s B.C. led on tobacco controls. Today we have a vision but are without a strategy to get us there. Tobacco control is, or should and can be, a non- partisan issue — something we can embrace beyond party and work cooperatively to bring about. It's the single most important public health intervention avail- able. It's time for us to collectively renew our commit- ment to leadership, because smoking causes 30 percent of all cancer deaths today, an d it's entirely preventable.

Decisive action now will serve to bring those numbers down, and I appeal today for renewed leadership that will translate that goal into meaningful steps. Last week I introduced a private member's bill that would ban the sale of smokes in pharmacies. The pub- lic response has been supportive — not least among professional pharmacists, who endorse this by over 70 percent. This step, while modest, is symbolically im- portant, because pharmacies are integral to our public health care system. Pharmacists want to dispense cure, not promote addiction.

It's important practically, too, because the pharmacy stores are highly visible points- of-sale for tobacco. Reducing points-of-sale makes to- bacco less convenient to obtain and less an accepted feature of everyday life. I hope that government will come to view this pro- posal favourably, endorse it and move quickly to im- plement it — treating it, if you will, as a first step in renewed leadership and a comprehensive approach in a bipartisan spirit. We on this side would welcome that. Progress in tobacco control and smoking reduction involves measures that denormalize tobacco and smok- ing.

That word may sound ungainly, but it captures the direction of change required to move an addictive sub- stance away from social acceptance towards high-risk, health-endangering status.

3574 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 [1010] Making tobacco less normal and more abnormal is a key objective. Broadly speaking, it involves making cigarettes less convenient to obtain, less affordable to buy, less attractive to smoke, less acceptable socially as a habit, less pleasant to indulge in and less benign as a consumer choice. While these factors affect the choice to smoke at every age, they're especially important for kids, because if peo- ple don't begin while young, they're unlikely to begin at all.

The fact is that the young are susceptible, and they're targeted by advertising techniques that are as insidious as they are effective. The young are also most affected by peer choices and least prone to linking choice to conse- quence. They tend to believe that consequences happen to other people — that if they're not invincible, they're at least immune. Tobacco control strategies have to work on multiple tracks in order to reach the young. Do I have time remaining? Mr. Speaker: Member, you're right on time. R. Hawes: Thank you to the member for bringing this topic. I am a smoker.

I decided in 1991 to take a respite from smoking. I haven't to uched tobacco in 15 years, but I'm still a smoker. I have absolutely no doubt that if I were to smoke a cigarette today, I would be buying a pack of cigarettes tomorrow. I appreciate how addictive it is. It is so addictive that I can tell you it's one of the hardest things there is to stop. I've managed to avoid the temptation for 15 years, although from time to time the temptation arises and you have to fight that off. I'm drawn very much to the persuasive argument made by the member, but at the same time I know that the B.C.

Pharmacy Association and the Canadian Asso- ciation of Chain Drugstores do not support this posi- tion. I've thought a lot abou t both sides of the issue. Should tobacco be banned fr om pharmacies, or should it not be? It's not as simple as just saying: "Let's just take it out and reduce points-of-sale." There are very strong arguments, while we are fighting the tobacco use in our population, for allowing pharmacies to continue to sell tobacco. That's the place that you buy cessation products.

I can tell you that when you go down to the local corner store to buy your cigarettes, which smokers would do, there isn't any move there. There are no cessation products. No- body there is going to offe r advice that you should stop. The only place you're going to get that is from your pharmacist. I'm not so convinced that taking tobacco out of the drugstore is, today, the right solution. Maybe the right solution is to work towards taking tobacco out of all stores, because nobody wants to use it anymore. That's where the education

part comes in. I'm thinking that pharmacies today aren't like they used to be 30 years ago when it was the little friendly pharmacist that everybody knew. Today these are big, big stores — a lot of them — and they're selling motor oil and cans of tuna and br ead and clothing. They have a mix of everything. The pharmacy is over in the corner of the store, and it comprises a very small part of the store.

If you, say, take tobacco out of the pharmacy, and it's dictated by the government, then what happens is that, particularly, the bigger chain stores that have big pharmacies open a kiosk somewhere on their property from which they sell tobacco . But the sale of tobacco continues. What happens is that the people who are buying tobacco — and as we acknowledge between us quite freely, it is so addictive — are going to continue going there. They're not going to get exposed to the kind of advice that they want.

I believe that what we should be doing is drawing our pharmacists far more into the consultative vein in health care, and I know the ministry is looking at that. I know the government is considering how to better utilize pharmacists. I think that pharmacists could be used, for example, to do spirometry testing in drug- stores and to invite smokers to take a spirometry test to see if they're susceptible to COPD or one of the lung diseases that's associated with smoking.

Those can be detected through a simple spirometry test that could be administered by a pharmacist. [1015] I think pharmacists have a big role to play as con- sultants and as cessation spec ialists, but to get to the pharmacist, the smoker has to go there. And what at- tracts a smoker more than the sale of tobacco? I don't think the argument is quite as simple as let's just take it out of pharmaci es. I think there's an argu- ment on both sides. I would prefer us to have a whole- some discussion about an overall strategy that encom- passes both points-of-sale….

For example, we've just passed a piece of legislation here, Tobacco Sales (Pre- venting Youth Access to Tobacco) Amendment Act, 2006, making it much, much tougher on those who would sell tobacco to kids who are under-age. That kind of legislation is very important in moving ahead to our target of a 10-percent reduction. We continue to lead Canada. We have the lowest rate of smoking in this country, so there are some things here that are going right.

Rather than rushing headlong and rapidly into something like telling drugstores to get tobacco out, I think it's better that both sides of the House, in a bipartisan or non-partisan-type approach, talk about what the benefits are both ways and then ar- rive at a decision that we move forward with. Thank you, again, to the member and to you, Mr. Speaker, for allowing the time to speak. D. Cubberley: To respond to some of the things the member said about smokes in pharmacies and stop- ping the sale. One of the things to bear in mind is that B.C.'s not leading the way on this. We're the laggards.

We are one of only three ju risdictions in Canada that still tolerates the sale of smokes from pharmacies and stores containing pharmacies. The other thing is that the idea that there's a big debate within the group comprising pharmacists is not

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3575 correct. Pharmacists are unilateral. They're over 70 per- cent of one mind in saying : "Get the smokes out of p h a r m a c i e s . " T h e y d o n ' t w a n t p e o p l e t o w a l k p a s t a power-wall of tobacco on their way with trying to re- solve themselves to take a smoking cessation product off their shelf…. They don't want tobacco in the same venue that they are vending cure from, because it pro- motes addiction. The visibility of tobacco is a key in- gredient in keeping people smoking. It reminds you of your craving.

We've been down that path, those of us who've smoked, and we know what it does. Of pharmacists, 70 percent — those are members of the College of Pharmacists — support getting it out. Of those pharmacists who own pharmacies, who are themselves business people, 60 percent already have it out. The only chain store which is owned by individual pharmacists has it out. The people who don't want it out are the chain drugstores. Let's not confuse the issue here. The pharmacists know what they want, and the chain drugstore owners know what they want.

What we need to do is make a choice between those two, and we need to move down this path. This is only one of a number of building blocks that we need as part of a comprehensive tobacco control strategy. We need to move back to an aggressive media campaign that helps us to denormalize tobacco smok- ing, especially in at-risk and hard-to-reach populations. I can think of two that jump to mind. One of the first, which has the highest smoking rate in British Columbia, is B.C.'s first nations. The tobacco strategy that we have currently, while it works very well for many of us, cannot work for that population.

It has to have a dedicated strategy. The other group is young girls and women. They are taking up smoking in greater numbers than young boys. It's imperative that we have a strategy that reaches those people. In order to do that, we need the money to fund it. We collect $700 million a year in tobacco taxes, and we spend less than 1 percent. The Center for Disease Con- trol in the United States recommends $6 per person as the level that would effectively bring smoking down.

In British Columbia $6 per person could be easily funded, simply by raising our taxes to the current level in Manitoba and Saskatchew an and ensuring that we tax roll-your-own cigarettes. The money is there for us to translate our vision of a smoke-free British Columbia into a reality. HOPE FOR A CURE S. Hawkins: April is Cancer Awareness Month, and I really can't think of any other disease that has personally touched more people.

We don't know why some people get cancer and others don't, but we sure know what can cause some kinds of cancer and what we can do to prevent or reduce our risk of getting it. [1020] We have this valuable, potentially life-saving in- formation because of research and the hope for a cure. Today, in this month dedicated to cancer awareness, I would like to pay special tribute and recognize all the people and all the courageous patients involved in can- cer research. They are a huge part of our hope for the cure. I am a living example of the value of research.

You know, sometimes they say a little knowledge is dan- g e r o u s , a n d d o I e v e r k n o w t h a t t o b e t r u e , b e c a u s e when I was given my diagnosis of acute myeloid leu- kemia two years ago, I immediately thought I had been handed a death sentence. You see, 25 years ago when I was still working as a cancer nurse — and I guess I'm aging myself again — there was very little back then that could be done for someone with my kind of can- cer.

So I can't tell you how relieved I was when I was told by my medical team that because of excellent re- search over the years, there was hope for a cure for me by way of a bone marrow transplant. I am very, very grateful for how far we've come since my days of car- ing for patients with my kind of cancer. I was on a plane a few months ago, and I was sitting beside this gentleman. We got to talking about our fami- lies, and I told him my stor y and how my sister saved my life. While I was telling him that, I could see that he was kind of crying.

He did tell me through tears that he was very happy for me and that he had been a bone marrow donor for his brother some 20 years ago. All through the years, he thought that he had let his brother down, because his brother did die. He didn't survive the transplant. I told him that I didn't think so at all. I thanked him for stepping forward to help his brother. I told him how much I appreciated what he had done for his brother, because all of us that came after him bene- fited from them — b o t h o f t h e m — participating in groundbreaking, life-saving research over 20 years ago.

I am very proud to be in a province where we have a B.C. Cancer Agency that dedicates its expertise to making life better for patients living with cancer. In 70 years we've gone from worst to best, and examples of how cancer outcomes have improved from worst to best in Canada since our Cancer Agency in 1935 are as follows: 70 years ago most people who had cancer died of it; today approximately 50 percent of cancer patients are cured. Childhood leukemia was universally fatal 70 years ago; today more than 80 percent of children are cured.

Testicular cancer, rarely cured 70 years ago, now has a greater than 90-percent cure rate. The median survival time for Hodgkins lymphoma was three years back in 1935. The cure rate today is over 80 percent. The Pap smear, the most effective cancer-screening test ever invented, was introduced in the 1950s in Brit- ish Columbia as the world's first population-based can- cer screening program, thanks to the groundbreaking work of B.C. Cancer Agen cy head and pioneering oncologist Dr. David Boyes.

Cervical screening has since been adopted worldwide and has reduced the incidence in mortality of cervical cancer by over 70 percent. The B.C. Cancer Foundation committed $24 million over five years to establish the B.C. Cancer Agency's Genome Sciences Centre, the only genomics lab in Canada dedicated to cancer research, where scientists

3576 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 became the first in the world to complete the genome sequence of the SARS virus in 2003. Their scientific breakthrough has advanced cancer research world- wide. The B.C. Cancer Agency's lymphoma research team has improved the control rate of the most common type of non-Hodgkins lymphomas by 50 percent, achieving the greatest progress in Canada. This cancer research team is known and respected worldwide for its innovative approach to cancer research and treat- ment. Stem cells were reproduced in 2002. Researchers at the B.C.

Cancer Agency's Terry Fox lab reproduced stem cells of the blood-forming system of adult mice, which could offer enormous be nefits to cancer patients who need bone marrow transplants. So much done in 70 years — such little time — be- cause people cared to dedicate their lives to research, to offer themselves up as patients, and for families, who saw the benefits and helped fundraise. There are 11 world-class research labs and units that comprise the B.C. Cancer Research Centre as part of the B.C. Cancer Agency, and they receive their basic funding and operating support from the B.C.

Cancer Foundation, which I know many of my colleagues support. We've all gone to many fundraisers for these good causes. [1025] The 11 labs are advanced therapeutics; cancer control research; cancer en docrinology; cancer ge- netics and developmental biology; cancer imaging; B.C. Cancer Agency's Trev and Joyce Deeley Re- search Centre right here in Victoria; B.C. Cancer Agency's Michael Smith Genome Sciences Centre; medical biophysics; molecu lar oncology and breast cancer program; Terry Fox laboratory; and the tu- mour research repository, again, right here in B.C. — world-class labs.

I'm proud to live in a province with the best cancer outcomes in the country. I kn ow this is a result of our scientists, health professionals, patients, families and donors who are dedicated to excellence in research — research which translates in to best practices and im- proving outcomes for patients like myself. L. Krog: I want to offer, firstly, my compliments to the member for Kelowna-Mission this morning for her statement on this very important issue that faces British Columbians day after day.

She is quite right to thank the many dedicated researchers and the people of this province who have worked so very hard to find cures for cancer to treat those who suffer from it. I will be a tiny bit partis an, however, in saying that we must also recognize that in the '90s the government did make putting funding into the treatment of cancer and cancer prevention a priori ty.

That, of course, is the problem that our health care system faces on a daily basis: the needs of those who arrive at the hospital emergency door day in, day out, versus the need to try and treat the long-term causes of cancer and other dis- eases that are such a threat to all of us. We know that the rate of cancer is increasing in our society. Mercifully, as the member has pointed out, the rate of cure is indeed getting higher. We are making greater and greater discoveries as a result of the hard work of so many day after day, but we live in a society where cancer will continue to be a scourge and will increase.

In that, we must take some responsibility, individually and as a society, to try and do everything we can to prevent it. That includes doing the simple things every day — that is, eating better, exercising and taking account of the gene pool from which we all come, because there is no question there is a relation- ship there. In my wife's family, her aunt died of leukemia, one of her aunt's children died of leukemia, and a second aunt died later of leukemia. It is clearly a scourge in my wife's family, so it is of particular in- terest to me that the member has brought this topic up this morning.

She talked about the generous donation of bone marrow from various people. One of the former mem- bers of this House, Jan Pullinger, made a similar dona- tion to help her brother in the cure of his cancer. These are selfless acts. These are th e things that bring out the best in all of us when a family is confronted with what is truly a crisis — not in the common sense of the way we use that term in politics every day whenever there is a problem, but a genuine crisis where it touches our family and our own hearts.

Over time — with our encouragement, with the support of government and with the support of society as a whole — we are going to find more and more cures and better and better methods of treatment. In paying tribute to the people this morning who under- take that, those who give their lives to it, we are indeed fortunate. They are our heroes.

It is one thing to per- form individual acts of heroism for which we all re- ceive public notoriety, but many of those who work hard day in and day out to find a cure for cancer — who work in laboratories and research labs — go un- sung, if you will, much like the people who are victims of cancer in our society who fight battles day in and day out and likewise go unsung, except perhaps for the small audience of their own family. In closing today, I want to pay tribute to those in the background — those who don't get the notoriety, those who don't get the credit and those who don't get our thanks.

They are heroes here today as well. [1030] S. Hawkins: I am in total agreement with the member opposite. I know that government can't do it a l l . T h a t ' s w h y I , t o o , b e l i e v e w e e a c h h a v e a r o l e t o play, to take responsibility for our own health and to get involved to help find a cure. In 1977, B.C.'s first cancer research centre was set up in temporary quarters in a McGavins Bakery build- ing built in the 1920s. The B. C. Cancer Agency's land- mark research centre in Vancouver opened in 2005. Built on half a city block donated to the B.C.

Cancer Foundation and funded partly through donations to

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3577 the B.C. Cancer Foundation, the research centre is one of the largest research facilities in Canada. For every research dollar the B.C. Cancer Agency receives from the B.C. Cancer Foundation, agency sci- entists and researchers can attract four more dollars through competitive grant support, increasing the agency's total research revenue four times over, from a base of $10.8 million provided by the B.C. Cancer Foundation to $45.5 million in 2005 — a 400-percent return on investment. There are very distingu ished cancer scientists drawn to the B.C.

Cancer Agency and funded by the B.C. Cancer Foundation. Who can forget Dr. Michael Smith, the late Nobel awar d–winning geneticist and founding director of the B.C. Cancer Agency's newly created Genome Sciences Centre in 1999? And there's Dr. Victor Ling, who's internationally recognized for his groundbreaking work on cancer cell resistance to drugs. He is the current vice-president of discovery at the B.C. Cancer Agency. Dr. Marco Marra, as I mentioned, is a scientist and head of the agency's Ge nome Sciences Centre — head of the team that broke the SA RS virus. Dr.

Brad Nelson is senior research scientist, immunologist , ovarian can- cer researcher and director of the B.C. Cancer Agency's Deeley Research Centre in Victoria. All are amazing people. They're helping in the background, as the member opposite mentioned — unsung heroes. When I think of how fortunate we are to live a good life, I also think we have an obligation to give back and make a positive difference in the lives of others. I'm reminded of the words of an eight-year-old child who helped raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for tsu- nami relief.

He said, “You have not lived until you've done something for which no one can repay you” — such profound but true words from someone so young. My friends and I made a commitment years ago to help raise funds for cancer research, and I have to say that today it feels like the most important thing I've ever done in my life. Today, in Cancer Awareness Month — this month — I say thank you to all those who support cancer research. Those who are involved in cancer research — to all of you I say simply: thank you. You have lived. URBAN AGRICULTURAL EDUCATION V.

Roddick: Agriculture is recognized as a sector that is transforming B.C.'s economy. The agriculture plan was mentioned in the throne speech in the context of healthy living and getting more B.C. products into schools. Our diversity is number on e. It produces more than $2.3 billion in farm cash receipts yearly and employs more than 280,000 people on farms, ranches and hatch- eries, etc., with over 225 different commodities pro- duced. B.C. has far more diversity in its agriculture production than any other province, and it generates more than $22 billion in consumer sales each year.

A major challenge, and one of our priorities, is bridging the urban-agricultural divide. We need to market the agricultural sector to the urban public so that they understand the hist ory of agriculture in B.C. and the benefits of a thriving industry. To renew knowledge and understanding of where food actually comes from, to educate the young people more about the roles of agriculture in the economy and the need to make sure they recognize the importance of food — this is essential. ActNow B.C. is a healthy- eating program aimed at en suring a healthier popula- tion, especially among B.C.'s young people.

The school fruit and vegetable snack program, a pilot project as part of the government's ActNow B.C., encourages children — in fact, all British Columbians — to eat healthy and eat B.C.-grown fruits and vegetables. Healthy Dining, highlightin g healthy food choices, opens up opportunities for smaller niche producers. Agrifood Partners in Healthy Eating increases con- sumer choice, with opportunities for market innovation for producers. Partnerships with B.C. Healthy Living Alliance and 2010 Legacies Now.

Opportunities to ex- plain the importance of the sector through 48 fairs and exhibitions in B.C., through farmers' markets, through 4-H education. [1035] When city folks visit a farmers' market, they get a chance to connect with the very people who grow their food. Now not only can they admire the fresh and appetizing products on display, but they can talk to the producer and learn about the opportuni- ties and the problems that farmers face when they work to put food on our tables.

We need more of that in a society where farmers are taken for granted and young people think that food magically appears on supermarket shelves. Milk, honestly, comes from a cow, not a carton. Urban growth has meant that many residences are coming closer and closer to agricultural land, and this has led to an increase in complaints about modern ag- ricultural practices. We want to help educate non- farmers — and, in some cases, farmers — so that they understand the efforts, skil ls and hard work that our farmers go through to put food on our urban dinner tables.

Often, the understa nding of urban dwellers about the problems and opportunities of our producers is limited. This has got to change. Closing this divide can potentially increase sales. A public that is aware and educated of how and where food is produced is more likely to choose and support local producers. While on the subject of education, I want to empha- size the importance of ge tting the message out that there are tremendous opport unities in agriculture. Many people in the industry today are concerned about what's going to happen to the industry when they retire.

They're concerne d that there aren't enough young people interested in making this commitment to this unique yet vitally important way of life. We need to turn that around so that people have a sense of ac- complishment for today as well as the confidence that the legacy they've built will survive and prosper for generations to come.

3578 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 Government intends to deliver effective services to help industry become more profitable. This will ensure that more young people will be attracted to agriculture. While 4-H has done a magnificent job in promoting agriculture as a potential career, we have to take the next step to ensure that the young people who went through 4-H actually have the confidence to choose agriculture as a career. To do that, we need to build a sustainable agriculture industry that will be profitable, not only next year but ten, 20 years down the road — forever.

In order to achieve that type of long-term success, we plan to develop a strategic long-term direction for the industry. An agriculture plan is a major priority of our Premier, Minister Pat Bell and our entire govern- ment. The new provincial ag plan will look to inspire public interest in and excitement for this industry. Truly, I believe there are huge opportunities in this area. We will be building a positive relationship be- tween farmers and non-farmer s. One of the main goals is to significantly increase awareness, understanding and support of the food pr oduction system among the B.C. public.

The future remains bright for British Columbia. Agriculture is a stabilizing force for the provincial economy, but a huge opportunity also exists in the 2010 Olympics, as B.C. producers will have the opportunity to show off their world-class products. We need to re-establish the link between agriculture and society as a whole. There is no one in this province — or on the planet, for that matter — who does not have ties to agriculture. If you eat, you are a stakeholder. I look forward to comments from my colleague. [1040] B.

Ralston: The Canadian Federation of Agriculture speaks of Food Freedom Day, which is the day on which the average Canadian consumer has earned enough to pay for their food for the entire year. This year it was February 8, 2006. We in Canada and in Brit- ish Columbia are particularly blessed with sources of inexpensive and safe food. Perhaps that goes largely unappreciated by urban dw ellers. I agree with the member for Delta South that a secure food supply is becoming increasingly important as we look out into the future. Indeed, a domestically grown food supply becomes increasingly important as well.

The president of the Canadian Federation of Agri- culture has said that a homegrown food supply is a cornerstone of sovereignty. In the future we cannot continue to rely forever upon imported food sources. Many urban dwellers, perhaps, aren't fully cognizant of that, but I think the is sue of food security and sources of food is increasingly becoming an issue to the vast majority of the population who live in urban and suburban settings. There are some problems in the supply of food. Not everyone has access to good, cheap, quality food.

Many of our citizens are forced to rely upon food banks for some of their sources of food. B.C. 's nutritionists have spoken of…. While the Premier has set out some goals about good nutrition for people, the average income of some people doesn't permit them to enjoy a healthy diet. So there is much to be done in that particular area. Perhaps one of the most successful programs in the Ministry of Agriculture was the Buy B.C. program. A few years ago in core review it was downsized and handed off to the B.C.

Agriculture Council, where many producers, both primary and secondary, are re- luctant to spend the licensing fees in order to promote their particular products. The direction that has been taken to add food to the roster of the policies to be implemented by the Ministry of Health, particularly the Ac tNow B.C. program, is an important first step. I know t h a t ' s j u s t b e i n g u n d e r - taken. [S.

Hawkins in the chair.] When one considers, for example — as the mem- bers here have discussed in recent weeks — that a ma- jor purchaser of thermalized food from Ontario is the B.C. health care system, when the opportunity to buy nutritious, healthy, British Columbia–grown food is available here, one would think that the government might want to consider making B.C.-produced food a priority as an important source of nutrition for those in hospitals and other long-term care facilities. It would support our agricultural sector and supply a better source of food than some of the food that's being sup- plied now.

The right-to-farm legislation is another important step in recognizing and protecting farm practices against suburban encroachme nt. Pressure in the sub- urbs — particularly in the southern Okanagan, the lower part of Vancouver Island and in the Fraser Val- ley — is increasing. That particular legislation, freeing farmers from the worry of the nuisance of lawsuits and establishing an appeal mech anism to regulate disputes between neighbours about ongo ing farm practices, is a good thing and an important step. I think it secures the future for farming. Agriculture is an important part of the economy.

We look forward on this side of the House to partici- pating in the development of the agricultural plan, although regrettably — I have to be a tiny bit partisan here, as the previous speaker was as well — that oppo- sition MLAs will not be part of the committee. But we will definitely be making our presence felt at the public meetings that are required as part of this.

I look forward to celebr ating and meeting with the various representatives of the producer groups who are here today and to seeing agriculture grow and prosper as an important part of the B.C. economy, both for those who work on the land and those who con- sume the products and nutritio us food that we all look forward to each year. [1045] V. Roddick: I thank the Agriculture critic for his thoughtful comments. We will all work together to Buy B.C., because B.C. is best.

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3579 There are members of our communities that are taking to heart the importance of food education and making sure that people have the knowledge to make informed choices about the food they eat. Gerald Worobetz — and I've mentioned him before — is a chef teacher at South Delta Secondary and a strong advo- cate of buying local B.C. products. He also shows his students the farms that grow our food, which helps forge that important connection in their young minds between the source of food and their dinner plates.

John Bishop, of the restaurant Bishop's on 4th in Vancouver, is another one of those exceptional people. He has joined with Gary King of Hazelmere Organic Farms to tour the province filming and writing about year-round local B.C. produce. It's all too easy to forget the people and the processe s of the agriculture indus- try. Consequently, I will continue to stress the impor- tance of remembering the source of our food. Today is B.C. Agriculture Day. I hope everyone takes the chance to take part and celebrate B.C.'s best. Agriculture is our only sustainable natural resource.

Remember, you still have to eat to live. BAISAKHI H. Lali: Baisakhi is to Indians, particularly to Sikhs, what Christmas is to Christians, what Hanukkah is to Jews and what Eid is to Muslims. Baisakhi is celebrated on the first day of the month of Baisakh in the Indian lunar-based Vikrami calendar. Although the first of Baisakh does not usually fall on the same day, it is celebrated worldwide, including in Canada, by Indians on the 13th of April.

Bais akhi is also pronounced "Vaisakhi." Baisakhi, a national holiday in India, is celebrated by Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs, and has cultural, his- torical and religious significance. Baisakhi is culturally significant because it is the end of the winter harvest in north India and signals pros perity. Farmers are able to pay off their debts and pay for their children's edu- cation, weddings, etc. Folks celebrate their good for- tune in festivals in every major community.

Song, good food, wine and dance are the order of the day, and everyone gets together in their communities to cele- brate the fruits of their labour over the past year. The traditional north Indian, specifically Punjabi, dance is called bhangra. Youn g and old get together in a circle and dance to the beat of a dhol, an Indian drum, by kicking up their heels and throwing their arms to the gods in the skies. Men and women of the village trade friendly jabs and jokes in the spirit of the occasion as they dance an d sing to their heart's de- light.

The Punjabi bhangra dance music is winning world acclaim due to its melodious dhol beat. Any person will automatically want to dance upon hearing a bhangra tune. Historically, on the first of Baisakh 1699, the tenth Sikh prophet, Guru Gobind Singh, transformed the Sikh community from a small pacifist sect into a large militant fraternity. The fraternity known as the Khalsa, or brotherhood of the pure way, became an army of warriors whose goal became the defence of the weak and downtrodden against th e rich and powerful, and also the total destruction of the Mughal imperial rulers of India.

From 1699 onwards, Sikhs took up arms en masse and by 1712 had set up their own country under Sikh rule in Punjab. Within another 35 years the Sikhs reorganized un- der the name Dal Khalsa, or army of the Khalsa, and dealt a death blow to the Mughal empire by 1765 and freed all of north India from foreign rule. The rise of the Sikhs in Punjab inspired Hindus and Muslims alike in other parts of India, es pecially the Marathas under Shivaji in Maharashtra province, to take up arms and overthrow the Mughal occupiers of their homeland.

On the religious front, Baisakhi Day, also known as Khalsa Day, has the most significance for Sikhs. It is celebrated as a religious holiday by way of parades; langar, or free community kitchens; and Akhand Paths, three-day non-stop readings of the Sikh scriptures held in gurdwaras, or Sikh temples, in every Sikh community in the world, including Canada. [1050] In 1699, Gobind Singh transformed Sikhism into a militant fraternity dedicated to the path of righteous- n e s s a n d g o o d t o p r e v a i l o v e r t y r a n n y a n d e v i l . T h e tenth guru asked five Sikhs to sacrifice their lives for the faith.

Whereas the gathering of almost 100,000 people in Anandpur City that day thought the guru had killed the five devotees, lo and behold, Gobind Singh led them from his tent, bloodied sword in hand, only to present them alive and well. They were dressed in bright yellow and blue uniforms looking like an army unit. Gobind Singh administ ered a new kind of amrit, or baptism. Instead of teaching them only humility, he wanted the Sikhs to be fearless in opposing tyranny. He gave the five Sikhs baptismal water from a steel cauldron that he mixed with sugar, representing hu- mility, and stirred with a dagger for bravery.

Gobind Singh made them wear Panj Kakkaar, or Five Ks: kesh, unshorn hair; kanga, a comb to symbolize cleanliness; kara, a steel bangle representi ng righteousness and also to protect the sword-wielding hand; kachiri, military breeches for moral restraint; kirpan, a sword to protect humankind and for self-defence. He called the five Sikhs who were all from different castes the Panj Payaare, or the five beloveds. He gave all of them the last name "Singh," which means lion, and said that Sikh women should take the last name "Kaur," which means princess.

At that time only the Hindu Rajput aristocracy to ok the monikers Singh and Kaur. By giving Sikhs the last name Singh and Kaur, Gobind Singh elevated their status and wanted them to be proud of who they were. The tenth guru wanted the Sikhs to get rid of the caste system and create a society based on equality, fraternity and self-respect. He said, " Manas ki jaat ek hi pehchaanbo," which means: "Recognize the human race as one." Gobind Singh taught the Sikhs that in order to overthrow the tyrannical and bigoted Mughal rulers and to create an equal and just society, the Sikhs first

3580 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 had to get rid of evil within themselves and within their own community. Gobind Singh stated: "Speaking truth is high, but higher still is truthful living." D. Hayer: I consider it an honour to respond to the statement of the hon. member opposite. The festival of Vaisakhi is one of the most important in the Indian calendar. As a Sikh, like the member and others oppo- site, its celebration is very important to my heritage and to the tens of thousands of British Columbians of Indian heritage.

But I want this House to know that the importance of Vaisakhi is recognized not just by people of Indian descent. Across this province many thousands of non–Indo- Canadians join with us in this celebration. Vaisakhi is celebrated throughout the world. Our Premier many years ago was instrumental in assisting the Indian community in beginning the first Vaisakhi parade in Vancouver. When our Premier was mayor of Vancou- ver, he led the way for the Indo-Canadian community to develop the Punjabi market and to place signs in the Punjabi language throughout the Punjabi market area — the first in Canada.

He has continued the support for the Indo-Canadian community over the years to the wide-ranging assistance and recognitions we see today in the Asia-Pacific initiative, in the Punjabi language lessons we have in schools today, in the help we are providing to assist new residents to take advantage of our vibrant economy. In addition, this government is going to great lengths to encourage and accelerate the accreditation process for foreign-trained professionals to get them into the workplace quicker and into the roles appropri- ate for their skills and training.

Also under our Pre- mier's leadership, B.C. was the only province in Can- ada to celebrate and pass the proclamation recognizing the 400 years of the Guru Gr anth Sahib in the Golden Temple in Amritsar. Just a few days ago this House also unanimously sup- ported the recognition of Khalsa and the five sacred sym- bols of the Sikh faith and the contribution that Canadian Sikhs have made to our country and our province. [1055] Vaisakhi is a celebration not just of Sikhs but of all Indians.

This year the Vaisakhi parade will be cele- brated on April 15 by more than 100,000 people in Vancouver and Surrey and other parts of British Co- lumbia. This festival represents the ripening of harvest and the Indian new year and the birth of Khalsa. Vaisakhi is also observed as the Naba Barsha, new year in Bengal. In Himachal Pradesh the Vaisakhi festival is celebrated twice a year in honour of the goddess Jwalamukhi. In the southern pa rt of India, Vaisakhi is celebrated to mark the Tamil and Telugu new year. As well, this festival brings together British Colum- bians of all faiths and ethnicities.

It is a celebration that is enjoyed throughout our multicultural province and allows everyone to sample the flavours, sounds and sights of our great diversity. Vaisakhi is celebrated with parades, by partying and by wearing colourful traditional Indian clothes. There will also be many examples of wonderful bhan- gra and giddha dances along with lots of singing. The parade is always led by the float honouring our Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Following this acknowledgment of the spirituality of our deep faith are many other floats and groups of people celebrating this great day in our culture.

All along the parade route in Vancouver and Surrey there will be little stalls offering free food and soft drinks, giving everyone the opportunity to taste some of the wonderful dishes and sweets of India. This will be an outstanding occasion for people of all faiths and backgrounds to better get to know and understand our ethnic diversity that makes British Co- lumbia so outstanding.

I encourage everyone, including all members of this House who are back in their constituencies next week, to join us on April 15 to celebrate Vaisakhi, the contri- butions of the Indo-Canadia n community to our prov- ince and also the remarkable diversity we enjoy in Brit- ish Columbia. Also, I want to thank the Premier this time, who has encouraged all the MLAs to attend the Vaisakhi parades ever since I have known him. S. Hammell: I'm pleased to join the members for Yale-Lillooet and Surrey-Tynehead to speak in this House about the festival of Vaisakhi.

I am looking forward to joining the members of my community — Sikh and others — as we together walk in the parade and celebrate the festival of Vaisakhi but also celebrate, as the member op posite has already said, the wonders of our multicultural community. As speakers h a v e s a i d t o m e b e f o r e s o e l o q u e n t l y , t h i s f e s t i v a l i s a s important to the Sikh community as are the major events that are celebrated by other religions.

This most impor- tant celebration, Vaisakhi, coincidentally always falls close to — many would say — the most important Christian celebration: the celebration of Easter. Sikhism and Christianity share more than just signifi- cant dates. The belief in one God is common to both relig- ions, as well as the need of good to triumph over evil and that as humans we are consta ntly in that struggle inter- nally as well as externally. These beliefs are widespread throughout many of the religions of the world and ad- dress the need to speak of the human condition.

Easter also celebrates a new beginning, as does Vaisakhi, with the birth of the Khalsa and the giving of the Five Ks, representing kesh, kanga, kara, kachiri and kirpan — the Five Ks being the symbols of faith of Sikh- ism and the external represen tation of the individual's commitment to that faith. The values of building an egalitarian society, of building strong families and working hard are the fun- damentals of the Sikh community I know. They are values we can all emulate.

For numerous years I have walked in the Vaisakhi para de and experienced the joy and camaraderie of the Mela, as well at times the thrust and press of an unbelievably dense crowd. Some par- ticipants choose to walk in that parade, in the crowd, and others to set up in an area where they can feed the passing parade. There is a joy and generosity of spirit

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3581 that encompasses everyone who participates in the festival of Vaisakhi, and everyone is welcome and wel- comed. It is a place where old acquaintances are re- newed and new friends are made. I encourage you, as all of us have in this House, to join in that parade and to encourage all those in our communities to come and join the Sikh community on April 15. [1100] Deputy Speaker: Member for Vancouver-Kingsway. [Applause.] A. Dix: Well, I'm glad to get some applause, be- cause I'm asking leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. Introductions by Members A.

Dix: I wanted to introduce members of the Armenian national community and the Armenian Canadian community of British Columbia, who are in the galleries with us today: Armenak and Anahid Deragopian; Vahe and Laura Andonian; Victor and Sonia Bedrossian; Eddie Pap azian; and a friend of mine for 36 years or so, Jack Deragopian. Hon. C. Richmond: I call private member's Motion 59. Deputy Speaker: Hon. members, unanimous con- sent of the House is required to proceed with Motion 59 without disturbing the priorities of the motions pre- ceding it on the order paper. Leave granted.

Motions on Notice ARMENIAN GENOCIDE REMEMBRANCE A. Dix: I wanted to start this debate and thank members in the House on both sides for participating in the debate by reading the motion. It states: [Be it resolved that this House recognize the genocide of the Armenians as a crime against humanity.

Be it further resolved that this House urge the BC government to des- ignate April 24th of every year hereafter throughout BC as a day of remembrance for the 1.5 million Armenians who fell victim to the first genocide of the 20th Century.] I introduced in the galleries today some members of the Armenian Canadian community in British Columbia. I think what is true of them is true of all members of that community — that the Armenian genocide that took place between 1915 and 1923 has profoundly affected virtually every single member of that community.

Armenak Deragopian, who is with us today — when I was doing some journalism work on this ques- tion — talked about his memory, which is typical of so many. He described to me his family history. He said: My father's family was massacred — about 16 people. My father survived because he was working in Egypt at the time of World War I and was unable to return back to his home region. My mother managed to escape, but much of her family was massacred as well. Her father was orphaned. Her mother managed to escape to Egypt with her grandmother.

Of the 300,000 people, Armeni- ans, in my father's region, only an estimated 10,000 peo- ple survived. That memory and the memory which I think is felt by, as I said, virtually every family — every family that I've met in the Armenian Canadian community can tell a similar story — speaks to the importance of this motion and speaks to the im portance for all of us of historical memory, of acknowledging historical truth and fighting its denial every day and in every way we can.

On April 24, 1915 — probably one of the most sig- nificant, certainly one of the most tragic, days of the 20th century, the century just past — some 2,300 Ar- menian community leaders and intellectuals were rounded up and killed. That was the start of what would be known as the Armenian genocide, and the scope of the horror perpetrated at that time of the Ot- toman empire is virtually impossible to comprehend — 1.5 million people killed in eight years because of who they were. State policies of deportation, torture, massacre and starvation — systematic state policies.

To quote Talaat Pasha, who was the interior minister of the state at the time — and he sent this messag e out to a governor in Aleppo — said: "You have already been informed that the government…has decided to destroy completely all the indicated persons living in Turkey. Their existence must be terminated, however tragic the measures taken may be, and no regard must be paid to either age or sex, or to any scruples of conscience." [1105] Caves were used as primitive gas chambers.

At places such as the Hill of Margada, people who had been marched and were starving were tied together in lines and pushed off a hill into a river. One of them was shot in order to drag the rest down to their deaths. Many of us know the stories of railway routes to Da- chau and Auschwitz. Fewer of us, I think, know the route that Armenians often travelled, from Mush to Kirkuk and Mosul or from Sivas to Malatia and on to Aleppo. Madam Speaker, genocide is defined in interna- tional law as the organized killing of people for the express purpose of putting an end to their collective existence.

Well, prior to World War I there were 2.5 million Armenians in what was the Ottoman Empire, and virtually the entire population was expunged. It's the links between this genocide — this awful event — and other genocides of the 20th century that are well known and profound . Indeed, the person who campaigned to have genocide defined at the UN, Raphael Lemkin, a Polish Jew who escaped Poland in 1941, in defining genocide spoke not just of what had

3582 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 happened to the Jews of Europe but of "the slaughter of Armenians in World War I." There is simply an avalanche of evidence about the Armenian genocide — from eyewitness reports to comprehensive inquiries. Many of our newspapers, from our newspapers here in British Columbia to across Canada, spoke of it at the time.

Yet there has been a fairly systematic effort over the years — partly driven by successor governments to the Ottoman Em- pire and partly driven by the fact that history tends to reward those who win wars and not those who are the victims of wars — to deny that this genocide ever hap- pened. That denial of genocide, as I think many people have said in reference to other genocides that have occurred, tends to reshape history and to kill people a second time, to demonize the dead and not those re- sponsible.

That's why it's important today and why it's impor- tant for this House today, I think, to raise this issue of the Armenian genocide and to remind people of its importance to our history — first of all, to value the members of the Armenian Canadian community in our province and in our country and Armenians around the world. For families to have gone through such hor- ror leaves not just an enormous legacy — an incom- prehensible legacy of pain and death — but also a leg- acy of pain and death for generations to come, both psychological and personal, that must be validated.

And those who wish to deny its existence must be fought for that reason, and those who say that to raise these issues makes it harder for people to reconcile today fail to understand that the first place we need to go for reconciliation is the truth. When the regime changed in South Africa, they created what was called the Truth and Reconcilia- tion Commission on those grounds — that only in knowing the truth can we find reconciliation. That's why countries around the world and provinces and jurisdictions such as Ontario and Quebec and Can- ada have recognized the Armenian genocide.

It is our responsibility, as well, to do so and to teach it as part of history and of ou r history in classrooms across British Columbia. It's not just that. There is, of course, a famous quote that's become almost cliché about history forgotten being doomed to repeat itself. But people will know and people ought to know that repeatedly in the 1920s and 1930s Adolf Hitler referred to the Armenian geno- cide. He said, famously, on the eve of invading Poland to his generals: "Who rememb ers the destruction of the Armenians?" Who remembers indeed?

Partly, I think, in raisin g these issues and in con- tinuing to these raise issues, we are attacking that view that people can be expunged from history, because when people are expunged fr om history, other people will believe that such actions are without conse- quences, and surely that cannot be. [1110] Finally, I think, we have a special reason — because I want to give way to other people; there are many members who wish to have the opportunity to speak today, and I don't want to give a long speech — this year to recognize the Armenian genocide in particular.

I want to talk about two people who lived in British Columbia and who were part of our community. The first is Arpine Krikorian, who was an elegant and vi- brant lady involved in many aspects of the Armenian community — cultural events, relief society, helping out young students. Arpine never spoke of how she lost her entire family at a young age, eventually being sent from her Armenian village in Turkey to an orphanage in Al- exandria, Egypt. She grew up without any family but was surrounded by a stro ng Armenian community there, almost all of them genocide survivors.

In 1993, no longer able to care for herself, she went to a nursing home in Vancouver, where she lived out the final 12 years of her life. Towards the end she would relive the horrors of the genocide with chilling, vivid nightmares from her childhood that no one could protect her from. Kerop Shabanian, another member of the Armenian Canadian community here in British Columbia, was born in 1912 in the village of Geuldagh. He had a very difficult life, having lost many family members. During an interview in 2004 he said: "One day my brother and sister were taken, and I never saw them again.

Then my mother and I were taken with others in a group and made to walk in the desert. Others had walked that trail before us, as I sa w their skeletons there. There were only women and children with us." Mr. Shabanian arrived in Canada with his son and daughter-in-law, first living in Montreal before moving to Richmond. Though hard of hearing and having poor vision later in life, he would attend every April 24 genocide commemoration, sitting near the back of the hall so as not to draw attention to himself.

Invariably, emotions would get the better of him, and he would stand up in his frail body and offer a few touching words to the assembled crowd. During this year's 91st commemoration, Kerop's seat will be empty. Kerop and Arpine both passed away last year, and they are the last known survivors of the Ar- menian genocide who lived in British Columbia.

Their legacy, and one of the reasons it's so important to pass this motion today and support this motion today, is that with them gone, it's up to us now — their families and the Armenian Canadian community, yes, but the entire British Columbia community — to acknowledge their suffering and this suffering. In order to build a better future for all of us, we must recognize this and fight injustice. Surely the rec- ognition of the Armenian genocide by this Legislature today will play a small role in helping respond to that injustice. R.

Hawes: I rise today to thank the member for bringing this motion and to support the motion. I do not have in my family history anything like what happened to the Armenian people. It's very, very difficult for one who hasn't got that kind of ancestral history to really understand the feelings of the people who do live with this every day, who carry forward

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3583 these memories of events that took place, for some, so long ago — almost 90 years ago. It's very difficult to imagine how those people feel, how the Armenian people feel. It's very difficult to put yourself in the shoes of the survivors of the holocaust and of their families and how they feel unless you're a member of one of those families. It's very difficult, but yet I know that for them, every day the scars of those memories, the scars of what happened to their ancestors carries on, and it's a never-ending pain.

I'm thankful that the member brought it forward in the way he did. [1115] This century has been marked with many, many tragic and horrendous events. Man's inhumanity against man carries on daily on this planet, and we don't stop anywhere near often enough to consider how this could possibly happen in today's world. We don't look at what happened yesterday and recognize that the events of yesterday, the events that are hap- pening today all need to be recognized by all of us in order for us to somehow bring all of this to a stop. I think about Rwanda and Somalia and what hap- pened in Iraq.

There are so many places in the world where there have been tragic events — genocide. The Armenian genocide is not one that comes to everyone's lips. That doesn't come to everyone's memory. Very little is known about it. I do concur with the member that there is a tremendous amount of effort spent try- ing to bury this as though nothing happened. Those members of the Armenian community know some- thing did happen. Something tragic happened. It is important that we recognize and share their pain.

April 24 is a day of significance, but I would like to think of April 24 as a day where we don't just talk about the Armenian genocide but where we talk about man's inhumanity to man and remember that these events happened over history and stand against and unite against any further events like this. I am pleased to be able to stand up and support this motion. My heart does go out to those members of the Armenian community that are here today and those, I know, that wanted to be here and couldn't be here. My heart goes out to those who suffered from 1915 through 1923.

You can only imagine the kinds of horri- ble, horrible pain they suffered. I think all of us need to reflect on what's happening in the world and how we treat our fellow man. This is as good a place as any to make that kind of remem- brance begin for all of us. So thank you to the member. I will be supporting this motion, and I look forward to hearing what others have to say about it. L. Krog: Firstly, I want to thank the member for Vancouver-Kingsway for putti ng this motion before the House today.

I was moved by the remarks by the member for Maple Ridge–Mission when he talked about trying to contemplate and relate to this. Here in the security of our society, where none of us fears being taken away in the night, where we don't fear persecution because of our ethnicity — and I mean persecution in the real sense; we face discrimination in our society, but no persecution — it is hard to contem- plate these events. These events have happened throughout history. They have happened in countries that one would not have thought possible.

We kn ow that when this long pattern began, commencing in 1915, the Armenians were herded up, deported, marched — obviously, with the intention of killing them along the way. It reminded me of what is known in American history as the Trail of Tears. In the 1830s the Ameri- can government decided to remove the Cherokee peoples so that others could occupy their lands, and that time the case went to the U.S. Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court decided in favour of the Cherokee. The response of Andrew Jackson, the American president at the time, was: "The chief jus- tice has made his decision.

Let him enforce it." At that time America was the great beacon of democ- racy for the world. The Germany that commenced the Holocaust — the deliberate annihilation of European Jewry, of homosexu- als, of those who were handicapped and disabled…. The Germany of its time was probably the most progressive nation on the face of the earth in terms of its social policy, with pensions and unemployment insurance and things that we take for granted today. [1120] Some of you may wonder where I'm going with this. I'm moving a little through history.

In this country, when a similar motion came to a vote in the Parliament of Canada, probably the most- favoured nation on the face of the earth today, in my view…. And it's a view that I'm sure many members share with me. The motion read: "That this House acknowledges the Armenian genocide of 1915 and con- demns this act as a crime ag ainst humanity." That was just over a year ago in the Parliament of Canada; 153 voted for it, and unbelievably, 68 members of Canada's parliament voted against that motion. They voted against it, I su spect, because they didn't wish to offend the Turkish government.

They voted, I suspect, because perhaps they had a Turkish popula- tion in their own constituen cies or ridings. Who knows what the reasons were? But what I can say with some conviction here this morning is that whatever the rea- sons were, they weren't good enough to vote against a motion that I would hope and suspect every member of this House here in British Columbia will support this morning.

I f w e a r e t o m o v e f o r w a r d , i f w e a r e t o p r o v i d e a beacon of hope to those around the world who suffer under totalitarian regimes today, then surely, surely here this morning we can pass this motion. That's all we're being asked to do — simply to acknowledge the deaths of one and a half million people who were murdered just because, as the member for Vancouver- Kingsway put it, of who they were. I don't think it's much to ask. I'm honoured to be able to stand here this morning and speak in favour of it in this chamber. I hope that all of the members of

3584 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 this House will support this motion, because there are one and a half million souls who I think deserve the peace, the comfort and the acknowledgment of their memory and their deaths. They deserve our support, our acknowledgment this morning.

It's a precious small thing to ask, and maybe by passage of this motion today, we acknowledge a shameful piece of history and we will perhaps per- suade the Turkish government to do what it must do, what it will have to do if it is truly to join the ranks of modern nations — that is, acknowledge its own past, as we in Canada have acknowledged from time to time our own misdoings, our own wrongful acts, whether it was the deportation of Japanese Canadians from the coast into internment camps, where even to this day we can't bring ourselves to acknowledge the horror of the head tax.

I'm hopeful that by passage of this motion today, we will somehow recognize our own participation in things that were racist, because what happened in Tur- key with the murder of one and a half million people over time was certainly more horrific than the sins we have committed here. So let us pay honour this morn- ing to those who passed and pay honour to the Turkish community, the Armenian community, which has called upon the Turkish go vernment for decades to acknowledge what they did. Let us begin the recon- ciliation in British Columbia here.

Let us pay honour to those last two survivors who passed away last year, who the member for Vancouver-Kingsway referred to. It's not too much to ask. J. Nuraney: I, too, rise to speak on the motion pre- sented by the member for Vancouver-Kingsway. Our history, unfortunately, is studded by atrocities and forms of genocide. Genocide is defined by the con- vention on the prevention of punishment of the crime of genocide by the United Nations as

an act committed "to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or a religious group." The term "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Jewish scholar, after the Holocaust committed by the Nazi regime during World War II. In today's co ntext this definition has assumed a broader meaning to include acts aimed at destroying the culture and livelihoods of groups. [1125] As we stand today to condemn such acts of inhu- manity, we must also be aware of the recent and on- going acts of genocide that are taking place in our times.

I'm referring to the acts being committed in Dar- fur in Sudan right before our eyes. Recent acts in coun- tries like East Bengal, in Cambodia, in Iraq against the Kurds, in Bosnia and in Rw anda are examples of geno- cides that took place in recent history. The world stood by shamefully with no attempt at preventing them. We live in a time of unparalleled instances of de- mocide, genocide and ethnocide.

As we decry the acts that took place in Armenia some 90 years ago, let me submit to this House and to the nation at large that it is our solemn duty to do everything in our power to pre- vent such tragedies from happening on our earth. I will end my remarks with a quote from the Koran, the holy book of the Muslims, which says that to save a life is to save humanity and to destroy a life is to de- stroy humanity. M. Sather: It indeed does give me pleasure, as well, to rise to speak in favour of this motion to recognize the Armenian genocide.

I met with a small delegation of local Armenian folks last year with regard to this issue, and I must say, to my embarrassment, that I was not aware of this genocide. That is in itself remarkable — that we are not, some of us, aware of the first genocide in the 20th century. But it does speak, surely, to the fact that it has been hidden far too long and that governments are taking action around the world to recognize the neces- sity of addressing that wrong. We're here today to start that process as well.

That tragedy, as we know, occurred between 1915 and 1923, during the First World War, and began on the night of April 24, 1915, when 254 Armenian intel- lectuals in Istanbul were arrested and murdered as part of the Ottoman Empire's so-called final solution — and thus the date we seek to honour today. The member for Vancouver-Kingsway mentioned earlier about Hitler's references to the forgetting of the Armenian genocide, and truly, that speaks to the abso- lute necessity for us as peoples of the world to remem- ber horrific acts that have happened.

Of course, we all bear some responsibility for our lack of action over these many decades. And it is, of course, an encour- agement to the Turkish government to take responsi- bility for those acts that occurred at that time. It's only through the taking of respon sibility that reconciliation can happen. [1130] Over 2,300 of the top Armenian leaders were mur- dered by the Ottoman Turkish government, and in all, some one and a half million people fell victim to the genocide. When one reads the accounts, what hap- pened is brutal beyond descrip tion. It's hard for us to imagine, thinking of this genocide or others.

The annihilation of Jews during the Second World War in Germany and beyond we know much better, of course, but it is hard to imagine those kinds of horrific acts being perpetrated on any individuals. The remem- bering of a death is very important; the remembering of many, many deaths is that much more important. The genocide began, also, actually, with some quarter-million Armenian members of the Turkish army at the time being stripped of their positions and systematically eliminated, eith er at the time or shortly thereafter, with forced marches and the like that took place.

It's led to the Armenian heartland of Turkey, very sadly, now being virtually devoid of Armenians. The whole issue certainly speaks to the tragedy that can happen over differences — differences of religion, differences of politics. We are indeed fortunate in this country that the political or other differences that we have, have not escalated to the point of violence, but I think we can never, as a democracy, either, take it for

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3585 granted that something like this could never happen here. We must be vigilant. This is a way of, I think, stating our vigilance as well a s s p e a k i n g u p f o r t h e Armenian peoples past and present. Thousands of those descendants of the atrocity now reside in Canada and British Columbia. As we just heard, only the last two original members have now departed us. I, too, want to close by supporting this motion, rec- ognizing how important it is. Certainly, to the Arme- nian community it's very, very significant.

It's been passed in Ottawa, and it's time that we stand on board, as well, here in British Columbia and join Ontario and Quebec. J. Yap: It's my honour to also participate in this debate on this motion. I want to start by thanking the member for Vancouver-Kingsway for working on this and for bringing this motion forward. As has been mentioned by every speaker this morn- ing, this episode in history speaks to the inhumanity of man against man, the inhuma nity of people against people.

While humankind is able to, and does, engage in great acts of kindness and compassion, there is this other side to our human natu re. With the terrible, terri- ble killings that occurred between 1915 and 1923, this was a dramatic example of that inhumanity. I have to admit, along with other members, that really, individually, I didn't know a lot about this terrible event. Thanks to this motion, I took the op- portunity to learn more about this calamity in hu- man history. It is one that is not unique.

It is, of course, one that occurred at the early stages of the last century, but as has already been mentione d , w e h a v e s e e n m a n y , many examples of man's inhumanity. Specific ones include Cambodia; Rwanda, of course; Bosnia; and Darfur, which is the most re cent one that is happening on our watch as citizens of the world. [1135] I think it is a testament to our blessings as Canadi- ans, as British Columbians, to be able to live in a soci- ety that is tolerant, that is respectful of differences be- tween different communities and different cultures.

We know that we live in a multicultural land here in Can- ada, in British Columbia. I believe that in Canada, we in British Columbia can really set the stage and really set an example for the world in how we deal with our differences, how we respect each other, how we toler- ate each other and how we can live in peace. The member for Nanaimo made this point as well, and I really appreciate that poin t. Our history is not with- out blemish, but on a scale of inhumanity, we actually can take some solace at being a tolerant and peaceable nation. There are, of course, many sides to an issue.

In my research on this motion, I discovered that, of course, the people who speak out on behalf of the people of Turkey feel that there was another side to what hap- pened those many years ago. What is not debated, though, is that many hundre ds of thousands of people, even the Turkish people ad mit…. Hundreds of thou- sands of people — 600,000 people — perished that the people of Turkey admit, in their version of history. The number has been estimated as high as one and a half million, as has been mentioned.

Whatever the number is, we do know that many hundreds of thousands, per- haps a million and a half people died. It appears that they died simply because of their culture, because of who they were. That, Madam Speaker, is an unspeak- able tragedy on the scale of many that have happened, including the Holocaust of the Second World War. I'm proud to be Canadian. I'm proud to be British Columbian, to be able to participate in the debate on this motion, and I support th e motion.

This is an op- portunity for us as members of a Legislature in a de- mocratic land to speak up, to say to the Turkish people and to the Armenian people that the time is now to start down the path of reconciliation. The people who were directly involved in this ca- lamity 90-plus years ago are mostly gone. We heard that two living examples of survivors from that holo- caust passed away recently in British Columbia.

Now it's really about the future for the people of Turkey and, more importantly, for the people of Armenia and all the people around the world, including in Canada, who have heritage from Armenia to start down this path of reconciliation. If our efforts here in this House today can help along in a small way on this path to reconciliation, then all the better. I'd like to close by saying that one of the reasons that each of us, as members of this Legislature, step up to become members of this House is to be able to talk about issues that sometimes can be very difficult.

In this case we're debating a motion which really comes to the heart of what we all believe in, which is: just as we as Canadians and British Columbians enjoy justice, peace and harmony, it is something that we can pro- mote to all peoples of the world. [1140] In respect to this motion, it's my fervent hope that we as a Legislature add our voice to the people of Ar- menia and Turkey, to all th e people with connections to Armenia and Turkey, that they start down this path to reconciliation. J.

Horgan: It's a pleasure to stand in this place today to speak in favour of this motion brought forward by my friend and colleague, the member for Vancouver- Kingsway. I always enjoy coming to work, but today was an especially enjoyable day. Both of my teenage sons, over the course of the weekend, were wondering — as I had piles of paper strewn about, as I was coming up to speed, as a historian, on an issue of historical signifi- cance that I, until this weekend, knew very little about…. My children said: “Well, what's the deal, dad? What are you doing?

What's going on?” I recounted, for them, stories of horror and brutality that shook them to their very souls. As I went through the mate- rial, and as I discussed this issue with my colleague over the past number of days, it brought home for me — and I believe all members of this House — the im-

3586 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 portance of free people to protect freedom and to spread it wherever we can. History is written every day. Today we get to par- ticipate, as British Columbians and as legislators in this place, in righting a wrong in a very small way; 79 of us will have an opportunity at the noon hour to vote in favour of a motion that is courageous, but not nearly as courageous as those who are joining us in the gallery and their ancestors. The pers ecution over the past 90 years is profoundly disturbing.

I don't want to take too much time because we have o t h e r s p e a k e r s , a n d I w a n t t o b e s u r e w e v o t e o n t h i s motion today. My colleague from Burnaby-Willingdon inventoried some of the horrors in our recent past — in Bosnia, in Sudan and in Rwanda — and while our in- humanity to each other continues, we need to grasp humanity when we find it. Today we have that oppor- tunity — to re-right, to correct a wrong — in a small way, as free people. It's all well and good for the state of Turkey to deny the murder of 1.5 million people.

There are arguments that it was the transition from the Ottoman Empire to the new state of Turkey that led to a demonization of the victims. History is rife with that sort of demoniza- tion. But that doesn't make it any more correct. Denial must end before reconciliation can begin. In a small way we, as legislators in British Columbia, can join with others around the world and in other jurisdictions in Canada — in Quebec and Ontario — to denounce the genocide of the Armenian people and to set aside a day, annually, when we can remember this tragedy.

As the Education critic, it's particularly troubling for me to have two children that are studying world history now and to only be able to teach them about the Arme- nian tragedy through the Internet and through books that I bring home. So to answer the question from a demon: “Who remembers the Armenians?” From this day forward, let's hope that all British Columbians will remember Armenians. I know that the people in my home — my sons, my spouse and myself — will always remember the tragedy of 90 years ago.

I want to thank the mem- ber for Vancouver-Kingsway for bringing it graphically to my attention and to the members of this House and the people of British Columbia. K. Krueger: I rise, of course, to support this motion. The 2001 census for British Columbia says that there were 1,505 people at that time in British Columbia whose mother tongue is Turkish, and 900 whose mother tongue is Armenian. I thank God that I live in a province where people whose mother tongues are Turkish and Armenian and Mandarin and Cantonese and Japanese and Russian an d German and….

In fact, you name a country around the world, and you can probably find British Columbians whose mother tongue is that country. I am so thankful that we live in the place that we do. But we can never take it for granted that it will remain the place we enjoy, unless we are resolved to keep it this way and to make it better. [1145] Why do these terrible things happen? Genocide — people attacking an entire people? I'm a Christian. I've been a Christian all my life, and I've always wondered: how could the Crusades happen?

How could people — who worship a God who has said very clearly in the Bible that he hates three things above all others: a proud look, a lying tongue and feet swift to shed inno- cent blood — g o o v e r a n d , i n t h e n a m e o f C h r i s t , k i l l other people? My mother was a refugee. My mother's family were Mennonites who had left Germany because they didn't want to be drawn into the Kaiser's wars that they knew were coming. They were welcomed to Russia by Cath- erine the Great. They were industrious people who worked hard and built successful farms.

My grand- father owned a flour mill that he built himself. They got rich in the Ukraine. The Communists hated them because of their ability to work hard and get rich. They were going to kill my mother's family. They killed many Mennonites. The second time they'd seized all his possessions and it was really clear to my grand- father that his family was going to be wiped out, he got away with them and fled fr om Russia. My mother was just a baby at the time. It's true that these genocides go on and on through- out history, and a number of them have happened just in the very recent past.

To our shame, the world has not responded to them and isn't responding to them. There are Arab people who call themselves the Jan- jaweed wiping out black Africans in Darfur. Our famous general Roméo Dallaire came back from Rwanda a bro- ken man from his awful experience in trying to stop a genocide there and seeing what happened. There was a genocide against his own people by a man named Pol Pot in Cambodia. At the time, I was a sponsor of a World Vision little girl there, and I lost touch with her completely. I don't know what happened to her.

When I was a youth, I felt terribly ashamed of my German roots, my German blood, because of my grow- ing awareness of what Hitl er did and what the Nazis did and how awful that was. I actually used to think, when I was a young teenager, that perhaps I could get a total blood transfusion so that I wouldn't have that blood in my veins anymore. I could never do that, because my father wasn't a person who would ever have taken

part in anything like that. In fact, he was the only son of his family, and there were a number of them, who volunteered to be in the Canadian army in the Second World War. He was so horrified at the thought of shooting anyone, even though he was the best shot in the family and in the military group he formed up with, that he pleaded to be allowed to be a stretcher-bearer. So he was at Nor- mandy at the D-Day invasion as a stretcher-bearer, and he saw the mayhem around him and was horrified by it.

Those thoughts that starte d t o f o r m i n m e w h e n I was a teenager about the sham e of the inheritance that I h a d f r o m m y G e r m a n e x t raction, I was eventually reconciled to by the fact that people can make a break

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3587 from these awful things th at have happened in their history. They don't have to be loyal to that at all, while being loyal to their family. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] I do not blame people of Turkish extraction today for what happened to the Armenians, but I think that this motion is particularly good for British Columbia because it will establish a day where British Columbi- ans — certainly, a lot of them — think about this awful event. We need to think about these things more, be- cause it could happen here. It can happen anywhere.

There was an Olympics held in Yugoslavia. We're look- ing forward to the Olympics in 2010. Olympics were held there — Sarajevo — not long before genocides were happening in Bosnia. We could name many days of the year as memorial days, and maybe we should. This genocide started wh en World War I was only a year underway. People called it "the war to end all wars," and they actually beli eved that it was. But this was happening and went on happening for another four years after that war — twice as long as the war that was supposed to end all wars. Wars don't end genocides.

What we have to do is attack the roots of genocide, and I say that the roots are racism and greed. Many times rac- ist opportunists rise up at moments of opportunity and commit these crimes because of their greed and their desire to own what their victims owned. I'm thankful, as I said, for our multifaceted and inclusive society. One day we had a citizenship cere- mony on Canada Day in Kamloops, and I looked out at a sea of faces, new Canadians from all around the world. This thought poppe d into my mind as I was making my remarks to them.

It was Canada Day, and I said: "You're Canada's birthday present." I've always thought of immigrants who become citizens since as birthday presents to Canada, whether it's Canada Day or not when they take their oath. [1150] It's wonderful to have a society that is inclusive, where a r a c i s t i s a f r i n g e p e r s o n a n d k n o w s i t . R a c i s m i s t o b e shamed, and racists are to be shamed. I'm glad I live in a society where it is manifestly ridiculous to be a racist, be- cause we live in something of a United Nations. I'm very pleased that the member brought this mo- tion that we will support.

We will pass this motion, a n d w e w i l l h a v e a d a y w h e r e w e m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e Armenian genocide is remembered. Yesterday in the Times Colonist there was a headline, "Sectarian War Claims 14 Men Killed for a Name" — 14 men who were killed just because their name was Omar. This stuff is going on all around the world right now. I'm proud to stand against it with all of you. M. Karagianis: I , t o o , r i s e t o s p e a k i n s u p p o r t o f this motion. I actually have an Irish history.

That, indeed, is a history of ec onomic genocide, and I am here because my ancestors in the mid-1800s fled pov- erty and starvation and came here as immigrants who didn't even speak the English language. It's been very difficult to even trace our heritage because of that kind of genocide. Whatever it was they were registering their information in, in Gaelic, we've been unable to trace. I t a c t u a l l y h a s g i v e n m e a r i c h a p p r e c i a t i o n o f t h e human condition around the world and the circum- stances of genocide.

I spent some time in the former Yugoslavia in 1978 to try and rescue some friends from that country before civil war struck, when Tito was dying. I watched with great sadness what happened to that country and to my friends there in a subsequent genocide in Bosnia. In the '80s I did some business in Southeast Asia and at one point was on a plane with a complete plane- load of Cambodian refugees escaping the horrors of their country. I remember the trip back from Southeast Asia with all of those people silent and terrified as they escaped what was happening to them in their country and ended up as refugees here.

More recently, of course, other speakers have referred to the genocide in Darfur. And of course we still have the ongoing occupation of Tibet and the genocide of the Ti- betan people that occurs here in this world today. One of the things I do know is that the root of the word "ignorance" comes from the word "to ignore." Any time in our history as human beings that we ig- nore the genocide of the past or the occupations and genocides that are occurring today in this world, we are all guilty of that.

I thin k that Tibet and Darfur are living examples of the ignorance that government leaders and world leaders are participating in today. I rise to speak in support of this motion because I think it's really important for us to commemorate the Armenian history and the tragedy of the Armenian people. It is actually a commemoration for us all in all the genocides. Perhaps it will help us to think more and to take more action on situations like Darfur and Tibet, and to act on that.

I thank the member for bringing this motion for- ward and urge everyone in this House not only to sup- port this but to think about how you can act and react to all the genocides going on all over the world — even now as we speak in this House. D. Hayer: I, too, want to express my deepest sor- row for the great tragedy that struck the Armenian people in 1915. I had a meeting with members of the Armenian community in my Surrey-Tynehead com- munity office last year, who explained to me about this genocide of Armenians.

I support this motion of the member for Vancouver-Kingsway. [1155] Directly throughout history these tragedies have fallen on people of all races and ancestries. In fact, only four years later than the atrocities in Armenia, mass killings occurred in my parents' homeland of Punjab, India. Thousands died before British machine guns on the day of Vaisakhi, April 13, 1919, at Jallianvala Bagh in Amritsar. We hear every day of genocide: a few decades ago in Europe; a few years ago in eastern Europe; and as

3588 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, APRIL 3, 2006 we speak, in Africa; and we all remember Rwanda. It is stunning that in a world that prides itself on being civi- lized, we face, almost on a daily basis, the deliberate slaughter of so many innocent people for no reason other than race, religion or political belief.

I believe we do need a special day to honour the memory of those who have been lost through the hate- ful wrongs of others, but we do also need to remember every day that there are terrible things happening in this world and that we all must stand and work tire- lessly to ensure that one day those tragedies will not be permitted to happen again. When we do recognize a special day for all the atrocities of mankind, I hope that it will be one that acknowledges the suffering of all people who have faced such tragedy, including that of the Armenians.

In closing, I do support the motion of the member for Vancouver-Kingsway. I hope we learn from this so that we can stop history from repeating itself. R. Fleming: I'd like to also thank my colleague from Vancouver-Kingsway and all of the speakers this morning for debating this important, long- overdue motion.

The 38th parliament has an oppor- tunity today to join with parliaments around the world and the National Assembly of Quebec, the Ontario provincial parliament, the House of Com- mons and the Senate of Canada to recognize that the Armenian people were victims of crimes against humanity, of an organized campaign of extermina- tion orchestrated in 1915 by the Ottoman Empire under the cover of the First World War.

All of us in this House support the international movement in the march of human rights, democracy and the freedom to live in multicultural societies and nations which embrace and respect the rights of all minorities. These are values that we hold strongly, and they abide in us wherever we see fit to fight against hatred and the covering of it and those who persist in historical revisionism and the denial of one of human- ity's darkest chapters.

Two summers ago I had an opportunity to travel to Yellowknife, where among my itinerary I met and so- cialized with a large group of skilled diamond-cutters from Armenia who were in Canada on multi-year work permits. I thought I should correct them that Northwest Territories was not representative of all of Canada and explained some of the other parts of our country — this southern region where we are, and Victoria, B.C.

I don't think I was breaking through all of the lan- guage barriers, but when I mentioned the name Victoria, B.C., and that it was the home where Atom Egoyan grew up — one of our best film-makers in this country, who has documented the story of the Armenian people in the film Ararat — that's when I broke through and had a really meaningful discussion with these Armenians who were working and living in Canada. I could see that it was a moment that the Armenian diaspora and the modern-day Armenian descendents and survivors of the 1915 genocide were given hope by the recognition of Mr.

Egoyan's film and by the memory of the world community for their suffering in that 1915 genocide. Let British Columbia join with that world community that has recognized that occurrence today. Mr. Speaker: Seeing no further speakers…. Hon. members, you've heard the motion. Motion approved. [Applause.] Hon. C. Richmond moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until two o'clock this afternoon. The House adjourned at 12 noon.

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Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0403am-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0403am 10
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9f7362c37176f8806bba396d7ca3c7c5ad547890

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