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September 30, 2010

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2010-Sep-30 (PDF)

L050 - Thu 30 Sep 2010 / Jeu 30 sep 2010

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 30 September 2010 Jeudi 30 septembre 2010

ORDERS OF THE DAY

CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR LES ACTIVITÉS DES ENFANTS

NARCOTICS SAFETY

AND AWARENESS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ

ET LA SENSIBILISATION

EN MATIÈRE DE STUPÉFIANTS

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

ONTARIO ECONOMY

TAXATION

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

PEST CONTROL

RENEWABLE ENERGY

ONTARIO LOTTERY AND

GAMING CORP.

PENSION PLANS

SENIOR CITIZENS

LONG-TERM CARE

HYDRO RATES

WATER QUALITY

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

FOOD SAFETY

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

DEFERRED VOTES

CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR LES ACTIVITÉS DES ENFANTS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

NORMAN ATKINS

STEEL INDUSTRY

BOX GROVE LIONS CLUB

PLANT CLOSURE

SWIM FOR MENTAL HEALTH FUNDRAISER

SOUTH MARCH HIGHLANDS

SENIORS’ TAX CREDIT

CANADA-PAKISTAN

TRADE EXPOSITION

PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

PETITIONS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HOME WARRANTY PROGRAM

BRITISH HOME CHILDREN

SOLAR ENERGY PROJECTS

G20 SUMMIT

RECYCLING

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

RECYCLING

TAXATION

TAXATION

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO CALEDONIA

ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’ENQUÊTE PUBLIQUE

RELATIVE À LA SITUATION EXISTANT

À CALEDONIA

WORLD WATER DAY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA JOURNÉE

MONDIALE DE L’EAU

MICHELLE KROHN ACT

(MODIFIED DRIVER’S LICENCE), 2010 /

LOI MICHELLE KROHN DE 2010 SUR

LES PERMIS DE CONDUIRE MODIFIÉS

PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO CALEDONIA

ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’ENQUÊTE PUBLIQUE

RELATIVE À LA SITUATION EXISTANT

À CALEDONIA

WORLD WATER DAY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA JOURNÉE

MONDIALE DE L’EAU

MICHELLE KROHN ACT

(MODIFIED DRIVER’S LICENCE), 2010 /

LOI MICHELLE KROHN DE 2010 SUR

LES PERMIS DE CONDUIRE MODIFIÉS

PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO CALEDONIA

ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’ENQUÊTE PUBLIQUE

RELATIVE À LA SITUATION EXISTANT

À CALEDONIA

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by the non-denominational prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR LES ACTIVITÉS DES ENFANTS

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 29, 2010, on the motion for second reading of Bill 99,

An Act to amend the Taxation Act, 2007 to implement the children’s activity tax credit / Projet de loi 99, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2007 sur les impôts pour mettre en oeuvre le crédit d’impôt pour les activités des enfants.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s my pleasure to join the debate on this children’s activity tax credit bill, Bill 99. We’re going to support this bill. I want to preface my remarks by saying that. We’re going to support the bill because our caucus, Tim Hudak and the PC caucus, believes in tax relief for Ontario citizens, Ontario citizens who have been whacked with the triple whammy of taxation by the McGuinty Liberals this year with the implementation of the HST, just for starters.

You have to ask yourself: Why did we get to the point where we’re bringing in a children’s activity tax credit? Well, it’s here, because, you see, they realize now how badly they messed up; how badly they messed up with the implementation of this HST and how much it is hurting families. In fact, my colleague from Parry Sound–Muskoka informed me that the other day at estimates the Minister of Finance, under questioning, made a statement, and I’ll paraphrase. He said, “We knew everything was going to go up after the HST.

We knew everything was going to go up with the implementation of the HST.” They weren’t saying that when they brought the HST in. They were talking about how wonderful it was going to be for Ontario.

You know, families in Ontario, their children engage in activities—and I’m going to use hockey as the example, our national sport, hockey. With all due respect to my friend from Peterborough—and congratulations to the Peterborough Lakers, who won their 13th Canadian senior lacrosse championship this year; congratulations to the Lakers—but hockey is our national sport, with all apologies to those who claim lacrosse still to be. Most Canadians accept that hockey is our national game and the one that we’re the best at. I think it behooves us to do everything we can to ensure that more and more of our children are engaged in that great sport.

Earlier this year, when the HST was implemented, they weren’t calling me so much about it. But when it came time to register their kids for minor hockey this fall, whoa, something hit the fan and it didn’t smell good. I tell you, I started to get the calls. I started to get the calls from hockey parents. They say, “What are these people trying to do to us?” Do you realize what it has done to minor hockey fees in this province? You see, one of the most costly parts of being engaged in hockey is the cost of ice time. That’s all subject to the HST now. And of course there are so many other things.

If you are a hockey mom or a hockey dad, you are driving your kids all across hell’s half acre most of the time to get them to games and practices. What are you paying HST on? You’re paying HST on the gasoline to run that vehicle.

Mr. Bruce Crozier: Our gas prices are lower.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Well, they’d be 8% lower, I say to the member for Essex, if it wasn’t for your HST, so don’t play that game; it’s 8% higher as a result of the HST. So there’s 8% additional taxes on gasoline as a result of that measure. That’s not an arguable point, so you might as well put that one aside. If you want to defend the HST, you might want to go back to your riding and start talking to your people about it. See how they like it. Was it 83% thought it was a bad idea in a recent Toronto Star article? We can have that debate, but we’re not going to have it right now.

People are being harmed immeasurably by this taxation measure brought in by the McGuinty government. They’re calling me and they’re saying, “What is going on here?” It doesn’t matter whether you’re a Liberal MPP or a Conservative MPP or a New Democratic—

Mr. Peter Kormos: Well, it does, really. Really, it does. We think it matters a great deal.

Mr. John Yakabuski: My friend from Welland thinks it does matter. He will understand my thoughts on this shortly. It doesn’t matter when you talk to your constituents about whether or not they think the HST was a good thing for them. It’s almost universal that they think it was a bad thing. That’s what has driven up the cost of those activities. I’m only singling in on hockey, but hockey is certainly one of the most expensive activities that we have for our kids.

When they start to look at those bills and look at the new charges, the new rates that the minor hockey association in their area is now expecting them to pay, they are saying, “Whoa. Wait a minute.” That news somehow got through all the spin doctors and the deflectors and the minions in the Premier’s office, and he said, “Oh, oh, people are upset, are they? Well, we’re taking all their money. Maybe we’ll give them a little bit back.” That’s kind of like, “We’ll take your money and we’ll give some back.” You know what it’s like? But you know, they’re not giving it back right away; oh, no.

You’re going to pay your minor hockey fees in September, perhaps October, and you’re going to get maybe up to $50 back maybe in June, when you get your tax refund back, in the form of a tax credit.

You know what it’s like? The Premier says, “Let’s give them a little bit of their own money back and maybe they’ll get excited about it next June.” Next June we’re only a few months away from the election—

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): The honourable member for Simcoe North, I’d ask you to withdraw that comment, please.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Withdraw.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Thank you. Member for Renfrew.

Mr. John Yakabuski: They’re going to get some of this money back next year, and without referencing what my friend from Simcoe North had to withdraw, I’ll just put that in another way. It’s sort of like the thief comes and robs you, okay? And now, next June, he sends you back 10% of what he robbed from you, but he’s also expecting that he’s going to receive a thank-you card in the mail for being so kind as to give you back 10% of the money that he stole from you in the first place.

That’s kind of the thought process that the folks in the Premier’s office went through: “Oh, people are going to be joyful, overjoyed with glee, when they get this McGuinty tax credit back in June. They’re going to be so thankful.” My goodness gracious, it just doesn’t cut it.

You know the other thing that they said to me? They said, “How can they be doing this to activities?” The Minister of Health Promotion and the Minister of Health and the Premier, they go on ad infinitum about how we have to attack the scourge of childhood obesity in this province. We have to do something to get our children more involved in physical activity. Part of it is diet and part of it is lifestyle, and part of that lifestyle is physical activity, so we need to do everything we can to encourage our children to be involved in physical activity.

But some of those physical activities, such as hockey, which is not only a great physical activity but a wonderful character builder for our children—it’s wonderful to have them involved in a team sport, relating with other children of their own age and also relating with adults. Hockey is like a fraternity. The families—it’s like a club: Your team, your people, the children, the parents, they become great friends over the course of that season. Like a fraternity, they spend an awful lot of time together.

They spend a lot of time going from one place to another, filling the McGuinty Liberals’ coffers with HST as they fill their tanks with gas. It’s a great character builder and a wonderful thing for children to be involved in.

But what does the government do? It turns around and decides, “Oh, we’re going to put HST on those activities.” Good Lord, where’s the logic? “Let’s tax them a little more to put them just a little farther out of reach of our struggling families here in the province of Ontario”—struggling to pay their hydro bills. Eight per cent added to the hydro bills, which went up 75% already under this government.

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Up 75% under this government, and now what does the Premier do but say, “Let’s whack them with—there must be something left in those pockets. We can’t be down to lint and bare threads yet. There’s got to be something we can get our hands on. Put your hands into the taxpayers’ pockets, put your hands into those families’ pockets one more time, because I believe there’s something left, so let’s get some money off the activities part of it. Let’s tax physical activity.

Let’s tax the very thing that children don’t get enough of today to keep them healthy, to improve the health of our society today and thereby improve it dramatically in the future by having us all more healthy and more physically fit. Let’s get some more money out of the people’s pockets.”

Now, as

an act of contrition—but it may be too late; you see, the taxpayers of Ontario are not quite as forgiving as the good Lord. This act of contrition—$50 coming back in the form of a tax credit next year—is a little too little, a little too late. People will not be running to the rooftops and to the highest hill singing the praises of Premier McGuinty for this $50 tax credit. You’re only giving back to them what you stole from them in the first place. That’s what’s happening.

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Order.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Here’s what happens when you know you’ve screwed it up. All of a sudden, you start bringing out these little things. You know, when Premier McGuinty talked about the HST and he exempted newspapers and meals under $4, he said, “That’s it. There are no more breaks for the HST. We’ve got it right.” How many times does this guy have to change his mind? How many times does this guy have to flip-flop on something or backtrack on something?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Whatever it takes.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Whatever it takes. I say to my friend from Trinity–Spadina that he’s right. There is no limit. In fact, they’ve established a new bar, and it’s called the no-limit bar. You are able to reverse yourself and flip-flop as many times as you like in this province under the leadership of Premier McGuinty. That is the standard now. The bar has been set.

So you’ve got this children’s activity tax credit, the northern hydro tax credit and now—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Order, order. I’d just ask members to calm down. It’s only Thursday morning, for goodness’ sake.

The honourable member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has the floor.

Mr. John Yakabuski: You know, Mr. Speaker, it’s very difficult in this chamber sometimes, and as you know yourself, the last thing I like to do is raise my voice. I like to speak in a very low and measured tone. But the folks across the aisle make it very difficult. I can’t hear myself sometimes.

So now we’ve got this, and just the other day—here’s the corker for you, Speaker—because they know they’re not doing very well at those seniors’ seminars, when you have meetings with seniors to find out what’s on their minds and what’s troubling them—

Mr. Jeff Leal: Yes.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Probably my friend from Peterborough may have had one. He’s saying yes. Do you know what they told them? “You guys are not doing very well, and you’re not treating us very well.”

Is the Premier going to admit that he has messed it up with the hydro file in Ontario? Is the Premier going to admit that they don’t have an energy plan that works? In fact, they don’t even have an energy plan. They’re going to start working on one, though. It’s coming. It’s going to come soon, but probably not until after the next election, because we really don’t want people to be able to look at it and evaluate it.

At those seniors’ seminars, they’re getting it. They’re getting it in boxcar letters. So members like my friend from Peterborough went to the Premier and said, “You’ve got to do something.” He said, “Well, you know me. We’ve got to find a way out of this. We don’t want to flip-flop completely again, because people are calling us the contortionists of the 21st century. So what can we do? How can we back out of this without doing a complete flip-flop?” And they said, “Well, let’s buy off the seniors. We’re working on the parents with kids in hockey. Let’s see if we can’t buy off the seniors a little bit on their hydro bills. That should work.”

So we’ll shortly be debating, beginning next Monday, the latest bribery attempt on the part of the McGuinty government—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Order. I’d ask the honourable member to withdraw that terminology, please.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I withdraw, Speaker. It just came out. Sometimes you don’t even have to think about it; it just comes out.

Anyway, as I said, we are going to support this bill. It is not that we’re against—we’re in favour, as I have said so many times. No one who holds political office at any level in the province of Ontario is more committed to tax relief and fairness for families in this province than our leader, Tim Hudak. So we are going to support this bill because we’re not in a position at this time to bring in tax relief legislation on our own. You see, we’re not the government. So in spite of our tremendous disappointment in what this government has done and the record of this government, we are forced: We are going to support this bill.

Any relief for families in this province is something we will support, because God knows it’s been a tough run under the McGuinty Liberals. It’s been a tough run for families under the McGuinty Liberals. So we’re going to be backing this bill. We look forward to its implementation. We know it comes into effect the minute it receives royal assent, so it will be in effect for the next taxation year. It will be a minor, minor bright spot in an otherwise woeful experience for the Ontario taxpayer when they have to pay their taxes and examine their return next year.

We accept this. We accept it on behalf of struggling parents as a little bit of a crumb from the master’s table as he decides what to do with the rest of the largesse. I wonder: Is there a way we could limit all the McGuinty consultants to just a $50 tax credit instead of the millions and millions they have been getting under nefarious and questionable consulting contracts in this province, while the poor families who have kids in minor hockey struggle every minute of every day just to raise their children?

The record of this government is clear. The people of Ontario are not being fooled. You folks over there think you’ve got them. Well, I tell you, you don’t. They’re going to take your 50 bucks, because they will view it as a small measure of what you have taken from them. Shame on you for what you have done to families in this province with the implementation of that HST. As I said, my colleague from Parry Sound–Muskoka—at estimates this week, your own finance minister, and I paraphrase because I don’t know the exact quote, said, “Yes, yes, we knew that everything was going up in the province of Ontario with implementation of the HST.” What a stark admission by the finance minister.

Prices are going up, but I’ll tell you what’s going down. I tell you folks that you might want to get home to your ridings. You might want to sit down with those families. You might want to find out what’s going on, because what is going down is the approval rating of the McGuinty Liberals.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: It’s interesting to look at this bill. Just as an example of how phony this bill is, to get the $50 you have to spend $500 on some sports or arts event, and when you spend that $500 you’re going to pay 13% HST on it. That 13% is going to generate $65 for the government. After you’ve paid the government that tax of $65, they’re going to give you back 50 bucks. The government is still going to make 15 bucks on you. That’s how phony this whole bill is.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: I think we’ve heard quite enough Tory rhetoric. Let’s hear from some real people. This is the response in the Guelph Mercury when a reporter went around and interviewed people—not my press releases. This is from Mary Ann Randall of the Royal City Power Skating program.

“Randall said the tax credit comes at a good time for families involved in ice-related activities, since ice rates have gone up both as a result of city rental increases and from the ... HST. She said the tax credit will not only make up for the increases, but will actually make her program somewhat cheaper for participants.

“‘It was really good news for me, because I did have to put my rates up, which I hate to do,’ she said. ‘But now it actually works out cheaper.’”

He goes on to say that many are applauding the tax credit locally.

This is from Cara Collins, director of the Guelph School of Art, at Wyndham Art Supplies. She says, “I think it’s a great incentive for parents, especially families on limited income, to make some of that extracurricular programming work for them.”

“The school offers Saturday art classes for children and day camps during the summer months, as well as private lessons.

“Studies in the arts, she added, are often seen as a luxury, while sports tend to take priority for many families. The arts boost self-confidence and enable a child to express themselves creatively, she said. An aptitude in the arts is linked to improved performance in math and sciences, she added.”

Linda Beaupre, artistic director of the Guelph Youth Singers, said: “There are so many parents who are committed to the whole child, putting their children in extra activities—arts and sports.... It would be a fabulous thing if they could get not only the credit, but that vote of confidence from the government.”

That’s what real people on the street are saying about this.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Steve Clark: I just want to commend the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for his comments. They certainly were very thoughtful and thought-provoking.

During the summer—and I think, you know, you can look across and see that this government is on a bit of a scramble. I was pleased to have the member for Nepean–Carleton come to my riding in August. We toured our community, and we met some wonderful people from the Bread of Life Dance Theatre, BOLDT. Sam Crosby-Bouwhuis and Jamie Irwin were the co-owners. We met with a number of parents, and they were incensed that this government is so out of touch.

That small dance studio was carrying $1,500 a month extra rather than passing it along to the parents who are at that studio; $1,500 a month they carried because of this greedy HST. It was obvious to me, and it was obvious to the member for Nepean–Carleton when she was in my riding, when we were at that dance studio, that this latest misstep just proved that Dalton McGuinty and this government have two left feet.

I’ll tell you, on October 6, 2011, we know that the people of Ontario are going to be looking for a new dance partner because of this government’s insensitivity to families. It was pretty amazing for us to see that that day. I was so glad that the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke talked about the need for this credit but also the missteps that this government has made so far this summer.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I just want to say that I’m very supportive of many of the arguments the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has made, and I will join him in those arguments in just two minutes. I will be attacking the Liberal government from a different perspective, but it’s along the same vein. I just wanted to tell you that you’re on the right track.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): The honourable member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has two minutes for his response.

Mr. John Yakabuski: That’s great; I’m going to be out of here before 9:30. I have a meeting at 9:30, so I won’t even be late. What is late is your contrition, on the part of this government. That’s late; that’s too late.

I appreciate the comments from the member from Guelph, the member for Leeds–Grenville and my friend from Trinity–Spadina, who is always so close to work with me on so many subjects.

Interjection: He makes a great dance partner.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I find him too short to be a good dance partner, but that’s just the two of us; we’re not compatible that way.

The member for Guelph wanted to talk about some of the third party endorsements of the bill from her constituents in Guelph. Well, she just doesn’t get it. They’re not going to refuse the tax credit, I say to the member. The folks aren’t going to send it back. Any little bit that can be coming their way to help is going to be put to good use.

She talks about how one parent thought that it would basically help defray the additional costs of the activity. That person has to drive their kids, most likely, to those activities. It doesn’t make up for the cost of the extra tax on the gasoline that they’re going to take to get there and the other HST that is going to be paid as a result of participating in those activities.

So I say to the member for Guelph, if she wants to get out there and campaign on this bill, good luck. Have fun with that. Let me know how it works out. Because the people of the province of Ontario are not being fooled by anything this government does at this point. You have taken the people for granted for too long. A little bit, a few crumbs off the table at the 11th hour because you recognize what a mess you’ve made of it, I don’t think is going to make up for the damage you’ve done.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I was looking for an opportunity to speak to this bill, because this bill is an admission by the government that they’re in trouble. When they introduce these little measures, it means that they are doing the polling and the polling is telling them, “You’re in trouble.” “What do we do?” They don’t know what to do. So they come up with these little measures to try to appease people. The fact of the matter is, people are hurting.

They’re finding that life is becoming more and more unaffordable, that they have lost good-paying and, yes, in most cases, unionized jobs that gave them a middle-class lifestyle. They are losing a middle-class lifestyle because they are losing middle-class, well-paying jobs. In the last four or five years, we’ve lost about 380,000 jobs—good-paying jobs.

What we are seeing is some employment, but it’s temporary. You have a whole lot of people who are being employed part-time. You have a whole lot of people working in the service sector, where 60% to 70% of Ontarians are working now, and they’re making, what, $8, $9, $10, $11, $12, $13, $14 an hour, living on the fringe, living on the poverty line. And they’re working; the majority of people are working and living dangerously on the poverty line. That doesn’t mean these people are doing well. So when they come to this country aspiring to be and belong in the middle class, and they find themselves not there, they have to ask themselves, “What’s happening? Where are we going?”

When the government introduces a measure such as the HST and calls it, “We are modernizing our tax system,” what does it mean? What does that word “modernizing” mean? How modern is it to be whacking a whole lot of people equally badly? How modern is that? We are cutting corporate taxes because that’s modernizing our economies. Wonderful, Liberals; you’re doing such a great job, giving away billions of dollars that working men and women want corporations to contribute because that’s their share of being part of a human society. The government is saying, “No, they don’t have to contribute anymore. We’re cutting down their contribution.”

When we cut down the corporate contribution, who do we turn to? Ordinary Ontarians who have to put their hands in their pockets, get some money out and dole it out to the corporations, because they’re doing so badly these days that they need the people living on the fringe to dig in their pockets and help them out. That’s modernizing our economy—asking ordinary working men and women to make a greater contribution than ever before because the poor corporations and banks are doing badly and they need the poor working stiff to help them out. That’s the so-called modernization of our economy, the Liberal way. I don’t get it.

The Premier stands up and says, “We’re cutting income taxes so that the well-to-do, those who earn over $100,000 and more, pay less and less in income taxes”—

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: That’s so not true.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: And you, good lawyer, are going to have a chance to speak in a second.

So 93% of the well-paying folks get a tax break. And the member from Ottawa Centre chuckles with good humour thinking that somehow he has got a better answer than I do on this.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: I do.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I’m waiting for you. I’m waiting for your two-minuter.

Ninety-three percent get an income tax cut. Who subsidizes the majority of people who have good incomes? I consider myself as a person who has got a good income. I shouldn’t be getting a tax break. Mr. Naqvi from Ottawa Centre shouldn’t be getting a tax break. He doesn’t need it. He is a former lawyer. I’m sure he’s okay, and he’s now well paid as an MPP. He shouldn’t get a tax break, but he is; I am. That’s called modernizing our tax system.

Then we’ve got a $20-billion deficit to boot. The government laughs at it and says, “Yeah, I know. We’re giving you a tax break, but we’ve got a $20-billion deficit. We’ve got to do something about this deficit so we’re giving you a tax break.” Maybe the member from Ottawa Centre is going to chuckle at that, too. Maybe he’s going to say, “We’re going to give more income taxes as a way of dealing with our deficit so that we can increase it and make everybody happy.” I don’t know where your chuckles come from when you make those funny arguments, but that’s not modernizing our system.

Then they introduced the harmonized sales tax. That’s modernizing: “We’re going to whack everybody equally across the land. Whether you’re making $30,000 or $200,000, we’re going to whack you with an 8% provincial tax, because we believe that’s the way to modernize our economy. If you’re earning $200,000 and he’s earning $30,000, you get whacked equally. But don’t worry, we’ve got some breaks for those of you who make under $30,000. But if you make $50,000, you get whacked just as badly as the person making $500,000.” How is that modernizing a system? What kind of Liberals are you?

What kind of Liberals have you become? Where is that fine Trudeau in your midst? He no longer exists in your midst. Where is he? Where have the Trudeaus gone? Member from Barrie, you would know him. Where has he gone? Where are the Trudeau-likes in your Liberal ranks? Where are they? They no longer exist.

As you modernize this tax system that whacks more and more people to death, there you come, giving people a children’s activity tax credit worth $50. You hurt them day in and day out, and under the pressure you come up with a little plan to relieve the pain, a $50 opiate, which is the next bill we’re going to be discussing around narcotics. You give them a $50 opiate, hoping to relieve the pain, except this pain is permanent and there’s no plan to manage this chronic pain that people are going to feel for the rest of their lives—no plan. The $50 you’re giving them to relieve the pain is not going to manage it because, you see, it’s going to hurt for a long, long time, and $50 doesn’t do it.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: Think about percentages.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I say to you, think about this. Think about this, member from London–Fanshawe: In the school system, these fine Liberals, absent-Trudeau types, are now charging parents an extra tax for a whole lot of different activities that they’re a part of. Students are paying higher user fees than ever before in their high schools to buy essential things that the Minister of Education should be paying for. Some $600 million is raised by parents, yes, through user fees, but mostly through the fundraising that parents do in their schools. And why do they do fundraising?

Because the government is not giving enough money to provide for essentials, and when parents find themselves without the essentials that they need, what do they do? They fundraise. And the government, the Premier and the Minister of Education say, “That’s okay. Raise money until you drop. We don’t care. We think it’s good, because as long as you’re raising money, I don’t have to tax anymore and get whacked as a result of taxing you. But if you’re raising it out of your own pocket and you feel good, God bless.” So the Premier and the Minister of Education say, “That’s okay.

Keep raising money as much as you can.” In some fields north of here, just about a 10- or 15-minute walk from here, some schools raise money to be able to have AstroTurf—$400,000 worth of AstroTurf.

You know what? Some of these people set up charities so that they can funnel that money through a charity. We, the government, give them some money back, the feds give them some money back, and they feel good in contributing. The government says, “That’s okay.” Parents feel that’s okay, because they’re getting something good for themselves and their children. That’s how we raise the extra money: through this indirect tax on parents, and they do it because if they don’t do it, they feel their kids are not getting what they need.

Some parents do it because if they don’t do it, they’ll feel criticized by those who are doing it, so they all feel engaged in having to raise money: indirectly taxed because the government of Ontario says, “We don’t have any more money to give. We have a provincial deficit of $20 billion. We have no more money to give. You’re on your own. Yes, we used to help you, but we can’t anymore, so if you want to raise the $600 million or more, you can.” And under that weight of the $600 million that parents are raising, the government says, “We’ve got a $50 opiate to make you feel good in case you’re hurting.”

It doesn’t solve the problem. Understand this, Liberals without Trudeau, Liberals-in-the-absence-of-Trudeau types: for this $50, as one Conservative member, the member from Halton, said but a few moments ago, you’ve got to spend $500. A whole lot of people don’t spend $500 on some type of sports plan or music plan or whatever other plan. Some people can’t afford to spend $500. So the Liberals without the Trudeau conscience are going to give $50 to well-to-do parents who are already sending their kids to music lessons or some sports classes because they’ve got the bucks, and they’re going to get a $50 tax credit,

whereas the people who can’t afford to send their kids to those programs get zilch, zéro, zero, nada, niente, zip. So this is a good little opiate for the upper middle classes who spend money to have their kids become geniuses in music, great sports people, maybe in swimming or who knows what. But the majority of people will get zéro, zero, nada, nihil, niente.

So what does the government do? They feel they’ve done something great, so they say to the Tories and New Democrats, “Are you going to oppose this bill?”

How do you oppose a little measure? If it gives some people a break, how do you oppose it? If they’ve been whacked over the head with this HST in perpetuity, where even funeral services get taxed in perpetuity, and then you give them a $50 break, am I going to say no to that? No.

You have made the lives of people unaffordable, and it’s systemic. What you are doing is systemic, systemically bad. Dangling a little piñata of $50 at this little party is not going to make the pain go away, because the pain is chronic. Unless you manage that pain, unless you have a plan to manage that pain, by not inflicting a whole lot of pain on the majority of Ontarians, you’re not going to solve it.

So is this New Democrat going to oppose this? No. It’s okay; it’s better than nothing. I would prefer, if we want kids to be actively engaged and actively involved, that you put physical education teachers in our school system.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: We did, we did. Remember?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: No, no. My good friend Lou Rinaldi from Northumberland–Quinte West says, “We did, we did.” Only 35% of the schools in Ontario—you ought to know that, because I’ve said it before, and it’s a fact—only 34% or 35% of the schools have physical education teachers. So when you say, “We did,” I don’t know what “We did” you did. I don’t know what “We did” means, because you did absolutely nothing. If you want kids to be—

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Grade 1 kids have never had phys-ed teachers.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Member from Guelph, we used to have physical education teachers.

You used to be a trustee, as I was, and I was a teacher long before you were—possibly; I don’t know. But you were a teacher at the post-secondary level, and you ought to know that we used to have physical education teachers, and we don’t have them anymore.

If you want kids to be physically active, they need someone to teach them how to become active, when kids are sitting behind computers or their laptops for hours and hours, and then they get very little physical activity in the school except the supposed 20 minutes’ physical time where the teachers are supposed to do something with them. We don’t know what they’re doing. But you can feel good that you have a policy that says, “Oh, we told them to do 20 minutes of jumping up and down.” Come on. What are those kids going to do in a classroom full of desks—they’re going to jump up and down for 20 minutes? No. I don’t believe it’s happening, quite frankly. I don’t believe it’s happening.

They need physical education teachers, member from Barrie, physical ed, so they’ll learn how to actually be physical, understand why it’s important, why we need to do it, but it has to be done.

Interjections.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Liberal friends, do not despair. Some of you will be re-elected. Don’t despair.

But I remember in 1990, when a number of new members said, “Oh, no, I’m going to get elected, no problemo,” and they didn’t get elected, by the way. Don’t despair. Some of you will get re-elected, and you can do all the “Blah, blah, blah”—as you should—and feel good about what you are doing. But many of you will not get re-elected. But do you know what? You have to defend what you’re doing, because you’ve got no other choice. You have to defend yourselves as best you can. You have no choice.

But do you know what? I’m sad that I don’t see too many Trudeau Liberals any more in your ranks; there are none. That is a depressing day. Just like the Bill Davis types; I don’t see too many of those either, except some of my friends like Ted from Halton. Quite right. But we’ve lost some of the Red Tories, and we’ve lost the Trudeau types.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: And Bob Rae went to the Liberals.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: And Bob Rae went to the Liberals, I admit. God bless; that happened. But most of us are well-rooted in an understanding of how we bring about greater justice and fairness to the majority of Ontarians. But when you lose the Trudeaus within the Liberal ranks, you’ve got nothing left. It’s an empty, hollow shell. That makes me feel sad, I’ve got to admit. It saddens me, right? Because I used to like some of the Trudeau types. I did; I’ve got to admit it. They’re not there anymore. But we’ve got the member from Ottawa Centre, an up-and-comer.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Yes, following in Trudeau’s steps. He’s going to speak right after me, just to support my arguments. Yes, siree.

I don’t know what to say. Again, it’s little measure. It’s a little opiate—50 bucks’ worth; not much more. The government is in trouble and they know it. Rather than supplying the systemic answers that are needed, in trouble and under tremendous siege, they give a few bucks, hoping that the public will notice. The member from Guelph doesn’t realize, when she reads that letter, that a couple of people are going to like it but the majority of people don’t even realize. But what they know is that the pain is chronic. What they know is that the people feel the pain, and it’s chronic. That, they feel. But this $50 opiate: Some people are going to get it; the majority are not.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Khalil Ramal: I listened to the member from Trinity–Spadina speaking for almost 20 minutes. I listened to his argument. Normally, I like to listen to him. Sometimes he takes a logical approach and makes a logical debate, but this morning I listened to him sending to us and to the people of Ontario conflicting messaging.

The first message is against the 93% of Ontarians who are going to get an individual tax cut. He’s against it. And now he’s complaining about the children’s activity tax credit because it does not benefit all the people of Ontario.

It’s important to support families who want to send their kids to do some kind of activity, whether a sport activity or an art activity. It’s very important. We’re matching the federal government’s tax credit, and we went further, even to art activities. We’re taking a very important step toward supporting families to be able to afford sending their kids to sport and art activities. If the member doesn’t like it, it’s very simple. The vote is going to come very soon. He can stop in his place and say, “I don’t like it. I’m going to vote against it.”

It’s very important, when we have issues across the province of Ontario, to address them through different management, different initiatives, like coming forward with an initiative to support families who are sending their kids to do some kind of sport activity, to do some kind of art activity.

We listened to many different arguments from the opposition party and the third party. They criticize us a lot, but I’m not sure what their plans are. I think they have no plan for the people of Ontario, so that’s why they’re only standing up in their places complaining, attacking left and right, without any vision for the future, without any constructive plan for the people of Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Certainly the member from Trinity–Spadina made some good points. I’ve just listened to the member from the London area. I would say to you, if there is a government that has no vision, if there’s a party that has no vision, it is certainly this McGuinty government, this Liberal government. We have seen, since they came to power in 2003, a succession of taxes which have hit taxpayers in this province hard. Families are hurting. It began with the health tax when they were first elected.

Despite the fact that the Premier said, “I won’t raise your taxes,” he did introduce a health tax, the largest income tax increase in the history of this province, and many people today don’t even know it’s there.

Now we have the HST. We also are seeing just incredible hikes in the energy prices, and people have seen hikes in their insurance. People are being hard hit by this government. It’s one knock after the other.

This HST, which covers almost everything in the province of Ontario—they’re trying, I guess, to tell the public, “We understand and we’re going to give you a tax credit on children’s activities,” whether it be sports or culture or art. But they don’t seem to realize that this HST is widespread and it’s on many, many products that people are buying and many, many services. We’ve heard that it’s on gas. You go to any gas pump now and you just take a look at the impact of the HST as a percentage of the gas purchase.

So for this government to now be trying to bribe parents with their own money is totally inappropriate and isn’t a vision—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Order. I’d ask the honourable member to withdraw that comment, please.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I would do so. Thank you. Withdrawn.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s a pleasure to speak after my colleague from Trinity–Spadina. Frankly, I think the point he made was a good point, and that’s that many, many people in this province will never see a penny of this money. If they are relatively well off—and well off is getting tough to be—they may be able to recover some.

Frankly, we think that it’s a good idea to give people some of their money back. As you’re well aware, the HST is set in place to give a very large-scale corporate tax cut. That’s the simple reality of what’s going on.

But I want to speak to the reality that people face, that in order to get $50 back, they’re going to have to put out $500. People around this chamber can speak to the reality of people’s lives in their ridings and the number of people who have difficulty putting $100 or $200 or $300 up front for something even now.

There was a survey that came out recently saying that 60% of Canadians would be in trouble if they missed just one paycheque. People don’t have a lot of spare cash. Large expenditures are ones that they normally finance through debt. Putting up $300, $400, $500—putting up $1,000—is going to be very tough.

I think that the member from Trinity–Spadina is right: that many, many Ontarians will not in the end be able to take advantage of this particular credit or reimbursement, that people will in fact see from the HST a reduction in their spending power, their standard of living, all to finance a corporate tax cut that does not need to be given—in fact, a corporate tax cut that is going to undermine the standard of living of people in Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: It gives me pleasure this morning to add a few comments for my good friend from across the aisle, who I always enjoy listening to. Sometimes, though, I question some of his dialogue.

If you want to listen to the negative and putting down of Ontarians, you just need to listen to the folks from the opposite side, because it seems to give the impression that this phenomenon of hardship is only happening in Ontario. Well, wake up and look outside the window. The phenomenon we’re experiencing in Ontario—times are challenging, but it’s right across the world.

When we talk about energy costs, I think everybody would agree. I mean, if you’re an immigrant like I am—even 50 years ago we were paying more for gasoline and hydro in Italy than we’re paying now here. I’m not justifying that that’s good or bad or in between, but the reality is, that’s the reality. We need to look out the window and smell the roses sometimes.

When we do these things like credits to help Ontarians, I think it’s very well appreciated. They keep on saying that it’s not enough. They keep on talking about the HST. They don’t talk about the other tax reforms that benefit Ontarians. They take that right out of the question.

I wonder if the members opposite, when they file their 2010 income tax return, will give back to this province that credit that they’re going to get from the provincial portion, because, obviously, to them it means nothing. Or give it to somebody, like the one time they promised they were going to give their raise to somebody, which I don’t think they did.

And it’s fine to chastise us—we’ll take the criticism—but I think you need to talk about reality. And the reality is that we enjoy some of the best education in Ontario, some of the best health care in Ontario, and some of the best living standards anywhere in the world.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): The honourable member for Trinity–Spadina has two minutes for his response.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I thank those who commented on my remarks.

I want to say that when you have a $20-billion deficit, you don’t just give money away to various sectors. You don’t just give it away. This Liberal government, which doesn’t have a Trudeau anymore, gives $2 billion away every year to the corporations—two point something, actually. Why would you do that?

The member from Northumberland–Quinte West says, “Well, it’s the way of the world. It’s the way it is. It’s getting harder and harder for everybody.” But if it’s getting harder and harder, and you’ve got a big deficit of $20 billion, why do you give $2.2 billion, I think it is, away to the corporations every year? And there are no strings attached, by the way. You just give it away, and you’re saying to the corporations, “Don’t worry; we’ll pay for it. We’ll pay for it through our deficits. Don’t worry, the middle class and the working poor”—because they are working but they’re poor. “We’ll take care of it. We’ll put it on our shoulders. We’ll subsidize them.”

This is all under the illusion that somehow giving this money away is going to create more and more jobs. We’ve been giving cuts to corporations for the last 15 or 20 years and we’ve got more and more unemployment every year. But we keep giving it away because the middle class will pay for them. I don’t get that argument. I just don’t get it. But that’s what the Liberals argue, and it makes no sense to me.

I know they’re in trouble. They need to give a $50 opiate, but I can tell you that it’s not going to work. Speaker, it’s not going to work.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Seeing none, Ms. Smith has moved second reading of Bill 99,

An Act to amend the Taxation Act, 2007 to implement the children’s activity tax credit. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

I heard a no.

All those in favour, please say “aye.”

All those opposed, please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

We will vote on this matter at deferred votes after question period today.

Second reading vote deferred.

NARCOTICS SAFETY

AND AWARENESS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ

ET LA SENSIBILISATION

EN MATIÈRE DE STUPÉFIANTS

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 29, 2010, on the motion for second reading of Bill 101,

An Act to provide for monitoring the prescribing and dispensing of certain controlled substances / Projet de loi 101, Loi prévoyant la surveillance des activités liées à la prescription et à la préparation de certaines substances désignées.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Toby Barrett: I do appreciate the opportunity. I guess I’ve got 10 minutes to speak to the government’s approach to the prescribing and dispensing of prescription drugs. The focus is primarily on the narcotic analgesics, products like OxyContin.

This is Bill 101; I refer to it as narcotics 101. There is a tremendous amount of information available on this subject. It’s a subject that, in my view—having spent 20 years with the Addiction Research Foundation, I should let you know that I feel very strongly that there has to be more work done on the information and the education side of this.

In this House, with a majority government, it’s relatively easy to pass a law, but this issue is much more complex than that. It involves treatment and it involves education, particularly in our school system, given that the increased consumption, as I understand it, of products like OxyContin is primarily impacting young people.

As you would know, Speaker, I spent a number of years with the Addiction Research Foundation, now known as the Canadian Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. I spent eight years working just a few blocks from here, at 33 Russell Street, the headquarters for that organization at College and Spadina. My great-aunt always referred to Spadina as Spadeena; that was a different era. Things change over the years, and approaches to addiction.

OxyContin is an addictive substance. All narcotic analgesics—all opiates are addictive. That’s the bottom line. These products have been addictive for the 5,000 years of recorded history of people using these substances. There were drug addicts 5,000 years ago. They were addicted to the opium-type drugs, the same kinds of drugs that this legislation today is dealing with. As far as the dispensing and prescribing, we have a very sophisticated system now, through doctors and pharmacists, to get this product out to people, legally and illegally. That’s something that’s not new as well.

I joined the Addiction Research Foundation in 1974. At that time, one of the primary problems was the misuse of prescription drugs, primarily, at that time, Valium. We referred to it as Prince Valium. It’s also known as “mother’s little helper.” I don’t know how successful we were then, but there has been certainly—probably more through education rather than legislation, much of that problem has been somewhat wrestled to the ground.

I’d like to make reference to a report from the College of Physicians and Surgeons. It’s titled Avoiding Abuse, Achieving a Balance. It’s a good report. It provides a bit of a snapshot of this troubling trend. It’s not just in Toronto; it’s across the province. I’ll quote one line from the report: “Ontario is in the midst of a public health crisis stemming from the inappropriate prescribing, dispensing and illicit use of opioids.”

The language changes over the years. I traditionally use the term “opiates.” I’ve been away from this field for about 15 years, but the fact remains that doctors in our province obviously rely on such medication to help their patients deal with pain, to manage pain; and if properly used, it makes sense. However, we know there’s abuse, we know there is misuse and obviously, addiction.

Going back to that report from the college, they indicate that “prescription opioids are more likely to be found on the street than heroin and”—as I said earlier—“have now become a drug of choice” among young people.

There has been a fair bit of talk in this debate about OxyContin. Oxies, or oxy—I don’t know what else it’s called on the street; OC, for example. It’s different from percs; it’s different from Percocet. If I had time, I could probably explain some of those differences. But very simply, OxyContin is a pain medication and it’s a time-released medication. It was developed in 1995 for people who needed around-the-clock pain relief so that they wouldn’t have to constantly be going for another pill.

OxyContin contains oxycodone. This is an opiate drug. It’s addictive. It’s something you find in morphine. There were tremendous problems with morphine use after the Civil War. It’s derived in a way somewhat similar to, obviously, heroin and methadone; they’re all derived from opium. So oxycodone is in OxyContin and it’s the same opiate that’s in Percocet or Endocet, for example.

As far as opiates in general, as I said, they are analgesics, narcotic analgesics. They act as central nervous system depressants. These things can kill you, especially in combination with alcohol or other central nervous system depressants—Valium, for example. Very simply, your breathing slows down, your heart rate slows down—a lack of oxygen—and you pass away.

These opiates can be produced naturally from the opium poppy. I’ve seen the fields of opium in Turkey, for example. How long has that plant been around? We know people have been using that plant, as I said, for over 5,000 years. Secondly, these opiates can be derived synthetically. Again, the development of morphine, back in the Civil War era—highly addictive; the development of codeine—addictive; and heroin—obviously addictive.

These substances are used not only for pain but are also used recreationally, and obviously used by people who have no choice. They’ve developed a dependence. They’ve developed a tolerance. They need more and more of the product, and they’ve developed an addiction.

Just going back, out of interest, to the opium poppy—my interest, anyway, in this particular plant. There’s evidence that it was first cultivated in ancient Mesopotamia. This would be the lower Tigris and Euphrates River valleys, in what is now present-day Iraq. This is the birthplace of agriculture, and the cultivation of opium, along with other products, probably had a lot to do with that.

There is evidence—I don’t know who digs up all of this historical data, but in 3400 BC, the Mesopotamians passed on the knowledge of opium to the Assyrians, and the Assyrians passed this on to the Babylonians, probably during time of war, when you had thousands and thousands of young people. Then as now, there was that opportunity to access product like this, somewhat similar to the transfer of narcotic substances—I think of heroin, for example, during the Vietnam War. You think of the opium that’s prevalent now in Afghanistan, for example.

The Babylonians passed it on to the Egyptians, and the opium trade flourished, with traders like the Phoenicians and Minoans, and then on to Greece, Carthage and Europe. Alexander the Great took opium back to Persia and India.

Fast forward to 1838 and the Opium War—China, 1838—when China ordered all foreign traders to surrender opium. The British won that war in 1841. Importing opium became legal in 1856 after the second Opium War. And I could go on and on.

I think one point I’m making is that this kind of stuff should be talked about in schools. It should be talked about in the curriculum, regardless of the subject, not just in health class. There’s a lot more we can do than to just pass a law on this subject.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): It being almost 10:15 of the clock, this House stands in recess until 10:30, at which time we will have question period.

The House recessed from 1013 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’d like to introduce Nancy Steele, who is here with us from my riding. She’s the grandmother of page Audrey Steele from Sault Ste. Marie.

Hon. Peter Fonseca: Joining us today is Robin Smythe, the mother of Henry Dennis, one of our pages here. His dad works in my office as my communications director, and that is Greg Dennis.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I would like to introduce Daniel Oleksiuk, who’s in the west gallery. He’s here from Vancouver and he’s interning at the Ontario Securities Commission. Daniel is the son of Keith, who was a long-time friend of mine. He’s the guest of Margo Duncan, who is the EA to MPP Paul Miller. Welcome.

Mr. Jim Brownell: I’d like to introduce two constituents from my riding. They are both on the board of directors of the Eastern Ontario Health Unit: Todd Lalonde and Marcel Leduc. Todd is also a trustee with the Catholic District School Board of Eastern Ontario. Welcome.

Hon. Carol Mitchell: I’m very pleased to introduce Kristen Rouse. She is visiting us from Denver, Colorado, and this is her first time at question period. Welcome.

Hon. John Milloy: I want to welcome two members of my staff who are here from the riding today: Shelly Freisen and Jessica Voin, and also Emily Schacht, who is a co-op student in Wilfrid Laurier University’s master program and is doing a term in my office. They are joining us here today in the gallery.

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: I would like to invite all members of the House to a flag-raising ceremony today at noon to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Cypriot Independence Day, followed by a reception in room 228. I hope everybody will join us.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the member from Vaughan and page Noor Bakir to welcome her mother, Lina Bakir, to the Legislature today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Minister of Energy. Minister, on September 22, Premier McGuinty told this assembly that there is a long-term energy plan on the books, it’s 20 years long, and it requires that “every three years we revise the plan.” But, Minister, the Ontario PC caucus has uncovered the Ontario Power Authority’s licence renewal application, and it shows that the OPA wants all references to its three-year requirement removed from its mandate altogether. In short, the OPA wants to weasel out of their responsibility.

Minister, were you aware of the OPA’s plan to weasel out of their mandate for a long-term energy plan?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m delighted to respond to that question because it gives me a great opportunity to talk to the Leader of the Opposition, members of this House and Ontarians about the very important work that’s going on in this province as we build on the long-term plan that’s in place now and we move forward.

I’m looking forward to announcing to Ontarians in December our long-term 20-year plan for energy in the province of Ontario. This plan will ensure that we have a strong, reliable and clean system of energy, not only until the end of the term, not only for the next two or three years, but we’re talking 20 years down the road.

Unlike the party opposite, we care about future generations. We’re not going to leave future generations with the incredible mess that they left us seven years ago. We’re building a strong, reliable and clean energy system, something that every Ontarian can be proud of.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Sadly, yesterday the minister was caught with his pants down, not even knowing about the Ontario Energy Board’s study of future power prices. Today, it seems like the minister has no clue that his own Ontario Power Authority is trying to weasel out of its mandate to bring forward a long-term energy plan as part of their licence renewal, and judging by the last answer you gave, you have no clue what is happening with your agencies in your ministry.

Meanwhile, while there is no plan for long-term power supply, while the OPA is trying to weasel out of their responsibility, the McGuinty government has gone headlong down a path of expensive energy experiments: your billion-dollar subsidies to Korea-based Samsung, billions spent on defective smart meters, and you’ve backtracked twice on your microFIT scheme.

Minister, if you don’t know these answers, who the heck is running the show over there?

Hon. Brad Duguid: What’s important to Ontarians is the fact that Ontario today has a strong, reliable and clean energy system that’s the result of good planning done by the McGuinty government over the seven years that we’ve been in office. It didn’t happen by accident. When you look back to the mess that the member opposite left for us—he was sitting in cabinet during that very time when they refused to make the important investments in transmission and distribution, leaving a crumbling system behind, when they refused to build the supply that they needed to build.

Supply went down 6% when they were in office; it didn’t go up. It went down 6% when they were in office, while demand went up 8%.

Over the last seven years, our plan has brought in 8,000 new megawatts of power, a 20% increase in our system. For the first time in a long time—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Yesterday we asked the Premier and the minister 10 times to release the Ontario Energy Board secret report on prices. You either refused to do so or had no clue this was happening.

Now, Minister, I’m asking you for the third time if you had any clue whatsoever that your very own Ontario Power Authority, in its licence renewal application, is trying to weasel out of its responsibility to bring forward a long-term plan for energy.

Yesterday, the minister contradicted his own Premier when he said there isn’t a plan; there won’t be one until the end of December. The Premier said one is pending. Your own agency is saying they want out of this responsibility. Do we believe the Premier? Do we believe the Minister of Energy? Do we believe somebody else?

Minister, do you have any clue whatsoever what is happening in the Ministry of Energy?

Hon. Brad Duguid: What a bunch of made-up nonsense. Let me make it very simple for the Leader of the Opposition, because he seems to have trouble understanding this, and I can understand why. He knows nothing about long-term planning because he sat in a cabinet that never did any. He sat in a cabinet that didn’t plan years in advance, that simply kept their fingers crossed and hoped that every morning when they got up and turned the switch on, the power would be there.

I am very much looking forward to moving forward by the end of this year, likely in the month of December, with a long-term energy plan that Ontarians can be proud of, a long-term energy plan that builds on the long-term energy plan we have in place now, that’s going to continue to ensure we have enough power for Ontarians to count on to run their homes and businesses, and that’s going to continue to ensure we’re making the investments we need to have a reliable system of energy. Unlike the party opposite—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the minister: You know, Minister, this is very serious. A lot hangs on your Ontario Power Authority working on a long-term energy plan. It’s hard to understand exactly what you say and what the Premier says, because they’re so often different, but if I understand it, now you’re saying that you’ll have that plan by December. What I’m saying to you today is that your own Ontario Power Authority, in its licence renewal application, says they want off the hook. They don’t want to have to do this every three years, as the minister says they’re responsible for.

Either you have no clue this is happening, you don’t care, or somebody else is running the show. But it’s very serious, Minister, because it’s obvious that the Ontario Power Authority does not want to work on their core plan. For the 11th time, will you release the OEB report on energy prices? And for the fourth time, do you even know what the OPA—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Hon. Brad Duguid: After question period yesterday, I went back to my office to find this report that the Leader of the Opposition suggested—he spoke as though it was sitting on our very desks here in the Legislature. We’ve received no such report. The Ontario Energy Board is in the process, as they should be at this time of year, of doing a number of forecasts and getting ready to put forward in mid-October the regulated price plan that comes forward every six months, that will include with it a price forecast that will be public; it will be announced. That’s something that we’ve been doing since 2006.

Unlike the party opposite, we’ve made our energy system transparent. Unlike the party opposite, these forecasts—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Minister, transparent? Give me a break. We’ve had to ask you now 12 times to release the OEB secret report on how much higher prices are going. We’re asking you now for the fifth time, did you have any clue that the Ontario Power Authority was trying to weasel out of the requirement to do the long-term plan? You have not answered that question; now it’s the fifth opportunity.

Minister, here is the bottom line: Ontario families are treading water just to make ends meet. They’re afraid to open Dalton McGuinty’s hydro bills because the rate—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I remind the honourable member of previous reminders.

Mr. Tim Hudak: They’re afraid to open Premier McGuinty’s energy bills because the rates are going up. I guess you must be an optimist, because the OPA has missed deadlines time and time again and now they are trying to weasel out of the core requirement. For the 12th time, please release that secret report and tell us exactly what the OPA is up to.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Once again, yesterday, taking the lead from the member opposite, I went back to my office to see what this big report was that he was referring to. We don’t have such a report.

What is going on is the Ontario Energy Board is working very hard right now doing forecasting work. They’re doing that so they can make public their forecast in three weeks. That’s something we brought in in 2006. That’s called transparency. That stands in stark contrast to what you did to our energy partners. That stands in direct contrast to what they did to our energy partners when that member sat in cabinet. They changed the freedom-of-information act to exclude agencies like OLG and Hydro One, so they could hide the retirement fund that they were setting—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Minister, with all due respect, the Ontario Energy Board reports to you. You are the minister in charge. If you couldn’t find the report in a desk in your office, then you should have marched down to the OEB, slammed your fist on the desk and said, “Give me that report. Make it public.” That’s what a PC minister would have done. We would have made that report public. We’re tired of you trying to cover up exactly how much prices are going up in the province of Ontario.

Minister, you have not answered now for the sixth time: Why in the world does your Ontario Power Authority, in the application for their licence renewal, try to wiggle off the hook of producing that long-term energy plan?

Minister, families are struggling today to pay Premier McGuinty’s hydro bills. Enough is enough. Why won’t you come clean?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. Minister of Research and Innovation, order.

Mr. Peter Kormos: Brad, sit down. What’s the matter with you?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, member from Welland.

Mr. Peter Kormos: You’re welcome, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I read an interesting

article last night from former Speaker Warner. He talked about the role of the Speaker. He used an interesting sports analogy, and that was that when we go to a hockey game, the person we do not want to see interfering in the game is the referee. I think when you come to question period, the person you do not want to see interfering in the flow of question period is the Speaker. So I would ask all members to be cognizant of that.

Minister of Energy?

Hon. Brad Duguid: What a bunch of nonsense. The Ontario Energy Board is hard at work today, as they’re getting ready to prepare the forecast that will be made public in two or three weeks. I’m not quite sure what the member opposite is trying to get released from there. What I can tell you is this: They’re working hard; they’re doing forecasts. In about two or three weeks, about mid-October, they’ll be releasing publicly a forecast of pricing going forward for the next year, as they do every six months and as they’ve done since 2006.

That’s the way to professionally work—unlike the previous government, which never allowed any of that information to go out. Indeed, under the previous government, they excluded organizations like Hydro One from freedom of information. They were trying to hide the traces of the efforts in the retirement fund they were setting up at Hydro One for their cronies—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. Back in the spring, this government released ads in which the Premier bragged that, “Ontario is coming out of this global recession sooner and stronger than anyone expected.” My question is, does the government still stand by that assessment?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: What we have done is lay out a plan to create jobs. When we provided the money to ensure that auto workers in Oshawa, St. Catharines, Windsor and across southwestern Ontario would continue to have jobs, that member and her party voted against it.

We understand the volatility in the economy. I would refer the member to my budget. I would refer her to our updated quarterly reports. I would refer her to all of our public statements that have cautioned that the rate of growth in the economy is still not what we would like it to be, that there is more work to do.

I can tell you that this party, this Premier, Premier McGuinty, and his government have laid out a plan to get us back to balance, but, most importantly, to get people back to work where we can and when we can.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I would refer the finance minister, the Acting Premier, to today’s Statistics Canada report, which states very clearly that Canada’s economy contracted in July. And the Conference Board of Canada’s new report says that Ontarians have the lowest consumer confidence in the whole country. But anyone, actually, who’s been listening to Ontarians could have told you that.

Why does the McGuinty government continue to claim that its plan is working when mounting evidence makes it very clear that it’s not working at all?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: If the member opposite took the time to read the full report, she would know—and I think Ontarians understand—that the challenges in the global economy are indeed affecting Ontario. There are far too many people unemployed. We are deeply concerned about the state of the United States’ economy and its impact on our exports. We have to continue to be vigilant.

Here’s what we are trying to do to help Ontarians through that. We created Second Career, a retraining program for laid-off auto workers and others. What did that member and her party do? They voted against it. When the auto industry was on its knees, when my community was faced with layoffs and when Hamilton, her community, was faced with layoffs—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Hamilton East will please come to order.

Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Ontarians actually have the lowest consumer confidence rate in the whole country. That’s the point. People are feeling squeezed by the McGuinty government’s hurting sales tax.

Kim Whitney writes this: “The HST has hit us very hard.... My husband’s salary does not go up enough to keep up with the cost of everything.”

Statistics Canada and the Conference Board put into numbers what Ontarians like Mrs. Whitney are feeling. If the HST was supposed to kick-start the economy, why is it, instead, kicking people when they’re down?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The other day, the member opposite said that she’s going to leave the HST in place. She said, “Take it off of energy.” I ask her again: Is she advocating eliminating the HST?

Let me provide her with a quote from TD Economics that says, referring to our tax policy, “This shift ... will further be supported by recent policy initiatives to cut the cost of investment,” such as the HST and corporate capital tax cuts. “Business investment—and particularly in machinery and equipment—is likely to be a leading growth area over the remainder of 2010 and into 2011-12.” In fact, it’s that very policy which will create more jobs.

She may want to raise taxes. She may not want to invest in education or health care or a better electricity system. We’re making the decisions to build a stronger economy for our kids and to help the people—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Regardless of the Acting Premier’s misstatement of my comments, I have another question. My second one is to the same Acting Premier.

The McGuinty Liberals claimed that the HST was just a bitter pill that would bring economic growth and 600,000 jobs. Instead, we have a contracting economy, higher costs and the lowest consumer confidence in the entire country. Families are worried about jobs still, and they are struggling.

Small businesses are struggling as well. Small businesses want to know why the government that promised so much has instead delivered so little.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: They also want to know why, when we cut the small business tax rate by 20%, she voted against it. Why did you vote against the small businesses like DiMarco’s in Hamilton? Why did you vote against those businesses on King Street and Main Street in Hamilton—

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Stop shouting, Dwight. Stop shouting.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Renfrew and the member from Hamilton East, one of the reasons that the honourable member has had to elevate his voice is because of voices from the other side.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order.

Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: When we eliminated the capital tax on small businesses on Main Street and King Street in Hamilton, why did she vote against it? When we lowered and evened out the business education tax for small businesses in Ontario, that member and her party voted against it. They have no plan, except to raise taxes, cut investments in energy and create more unemployment.

Our plan is about creating jobs, creating opportunities and doing the right thing for a stronger and brighter future for our children—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Small family-owned businesses are especially feeling the squeeze these days. Take Hasan Nahli, owner of Sammy’s convenience store in Welland. Hydro alone is now costing his small business $650 a month. The costs are so unbearable that Mr. Nahli is about to throw in the towel. He can’t afford to stay in business anymore in Ontario, and he’s not the only one.

Does this government have a plan to help small business owners like Mr. Nahli, or is this government still pretending that everything is A-okay?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have lowered their taxes. We have lowered their income tax. We have eliminated their capital tax—

Interjection: We have uploaded.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have uploaded, my colleague reminds me. We have uploaded services to the municipalities, which has helped those small businesses cope with property taxes.

There is no doubt that small businesses are challenged, just as our unemployed people are challenged by the situation in the global economy. There is no doubt—

Laughter.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: And the NDP laughs. We think it’s a very serious matter. We have laid out a plan with clear objectives, with a clear path to help small business. Every one of those initiatives, that member and her party voted against. They have no idea what to do to help our businesses, and that’s why we are going to continue to build a stronger economy for those businesses.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The totality of this government’s actions has completely failed. Small business owners need relief. They’re sick and tired of being told that everything is okay—yet they see their expenses climbing, their businesses are at risk and their customers are being driven away.

John Cryderman, a small business owner in Chatham, writes this: “Building an economy is all about placing more money into the hands of more people, not taking it away.” This government can put money into the people’s hands and help our economy today by taking the HST off hydro. Will they do it?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We put $10 billion into the hands of Ontario consumers and small businesses, and that member and her party voted against it. They have voted against every initiative that will help small business.

We acknowledge the enormous challenge that small businesses are facing across this province. I think they know and I think Ontarians understand that glib answers, glib questions from a member who has voted against every initiative aren’t going to fix things.

We are in the centre of a global storm that continues on. We have taken steps that we believe will help these businesses, help families through these difficult and challenging times as long as they last, and I think Ontarians understand that. I think they want a government that’s straightforward about what they’re doing and is doing things to help build a stronger—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is for the Minister of Energy. It’s no wonder that Canada’s worst government is also Canada’s least popular. The McGuinty Liberals know how much Ontario families will pay for their hydro bills but are sitting on the OEB report. Yesterday, the Minister of Energy told the media that the OPA plan would be presented in December; today, he says it’s now “likely” in December. We have to wonder which it is. Your OPA is so busy writing job postings for hospitality coordinators that they’re too busy to write the long-term energy plan. In fact, they want out.

For the 14th time, will you stop promising a plan that may never materialize and release the OEB’s bill analysis report today?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I responded to those questions initially in questions from his leader, and I made it very, very clear. The Ontario Energy Board of course is engaged in doing forecasting and analysis, as they’re getting ready to release the report of price forecasting that will be released in a matter of weeks.

I couldn’t have been more clear. We are looking very, very forward to bringing forward our long-term energy plan, a plan that’s going to ensure we have a strong, reliable and clean energy system into the future.

But for the 100th time, I’ve got to ask that member, where is your plan? You had no plan when you were in office. Your plan is to go back to coal. Your plan is to reduce our investments in transmission. Your plan is not to build the level of supply we’re going to need to supply Ontario families—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: The McGuinty Liberals should start giving straight answers so Ontario families don’t think they’re making up energy policy on the fly.

Instead of the long-term energy plan, here are a few things that your Ontario Power Authority has been up to writing: a $3-million propaganda campaign; job postings for a hospitality coordinator to order and coordinate catering for small and large meetings; and turning what was once called a virtual and transitional agency into a permanent and bloated bureaucracy.

For the 15th time, will you release the OEB report that you have in hand so that the OPA doesn’t have to take time away from its other pressing concerns?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m not sure how I can be clearer to the member opposite about this report, because I’ve said many times now, we don’t have their report. I think the member opposite needs to recognize that there’s forecasting going on within the OEB right now because, unlike them, we are planning ahead. Unlike them, we do provide forecasts. Unlike them, we provide them to the public, and we make them transparent so that those involved in the energy sector and Ontarians know where our energy system is going.

But I’m not surprised that the member would want to be dumping all over the OPA, because he doesn’t support any of the things they do. He doesn’t support the conservation efforts they’ve brought forward to save 1,700 megawatts of energy. He doesn’t support the efforts they’ve made to create 50,000 jobs across this province, jobs that your leader wants to kill—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PEST CONTROL

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Acting Premier. My question is: Why won’t the McGuinty government act on or allocate funds to the bedbug crisis in our province?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I want to start by congratulating the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for holding the summit yesterday. It was an opportunity for people to come together who all have the shared goal of preventing and remediating bedbug infestation.

The results of the summit are something that we are working very, very closely on. We are looking at how we can work collaboratively. There are many ministries that are involved in finding a way forward on this, and we also are working with our community partners, our public health units—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Back to the Acting Premier: At the bedbug summit, tenants were mostly shut out. Where was ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now? Where was ACTO, the Advocacy Centre for Tenants Ontario, both of whom called for landlord licensing? They need immediate assistance, and they need a plan from this government. So I ask again: Why won’t the McGuinty government act on or allocate funds to the bedbug crisis in our province?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think the member opposite would be better informed had she actually stayed at the summit yesterday. My understanding is that she dropped in. There was a lot of very good information that was shared at the summit yesterday. We are working very closely with our partners to find a solution. The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and I have contacted our public health units. They are working on the ground to find solutions.

This is a very important issue for people who are affected. No one should have to worry about going to bed at night for fear of being bitten by bedbugs. We are focused on this issue, and we are working to find solutions.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: My question is for the Minister of Energy. Minister, I’m excited that this government’s vision, under the Green Energy Act, combines the cleaner energy we need and want with the massive economic opportunity for our province to become a hub in the expanding global clean energy market. This is exactly what my constituents in Ottawa Centre asked for in the last election, and they believe strongly that clean energy is an integral part of Ontario’s future. This is why I’m proud of having a major company like Samsung committing to help achieve that vision in Ontario.

But I think Ontarians have been confused by the debates surrounding Samsung in Ontario. On Tuesday, the NDP leader, during an interview with 680 CFTR in Ottawa said, “Instead of growing and nurturing our own home-grown companies, the government gave $7 billion to Samsung.”

Minister, I am under the impression that this was the other way around. Could you clarify for the members exactly what the Samsung deal is and is not?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Absolutely. I want to thank the member for the question and thank him for the stalwart support of the Green Energy Act in his region.

There’s a lot to talk about when it comes to the Green Energy Act, but one of the things that’s very important is the jobs and investment that come to Ontario through that. To clarify for the member and any other members who have been involved in different views of this, our agreement with Samsung represents a $7-billion investment by Samsung in the province of Ontario over six years. It represents the creation of 16,000 green energy jobs over that period. It represents four green manufacturing plants. Those 16,000 jobs would not be coming to Ontario, they’d be going to Ohio, if it were not for the leadership of this Premier and this government.

Ontario is open for business, and the Green Energy Act is helping us rebuild this economy and create jobs for people in every—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: We know that this government’s commitment to modernizing and improving our energy system from the dirty and neglected one we inherited has required large and necessary investments. The people of Ontario recognized that the system needed to be fixed and that we needed action now—no more sweeping it under the rug and no more passing the buck.

Minister, you and the Premier have been clear that these critical investments in new generation infrastructure, renewables and conservation will affect the price of electricity in Ontario. But Ontarians are right to be vigilant about the cost of energy as we make this pivotal transition and to what extent that transition will affect their family budgets. They’re entitled to the facts in this debate.

Minister, why are we seeing energy costs rise, and are Ontarians getting value for the investments being made in the electricity system we all share?

Hon. Brad Duguid: This indeed is a question on the minds of Ontarians. It’s very, very important that we understand that rising energy costs are challenging for Ontario families and businesses. At the same time, Ontario has had to make those investments to ensure that we’re moving away from the previous system, which was full of blackouts, brownouts and dirty coal, to a cleaner system of energy, but just as importantly, a more reliable and stronger system of energy.

We’re committed to meeting that higher standard, a standard of strength and reliability, a more modern system, a cleaner system of energy. For example, our $6-billion investment in enhanced transmission and distribution is a testament to that commitment to ensure that we’re providing the reliable energy that Ontario families count on day in and day out. The other side doesn’t have that commitment—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ONTARIO LOTTERY AND

GAMING CORP.

Mr. Norm Miller: My question is for the Acting Premier. Your lottery scandals have more sequels than the Harry Potter series. The plot of the first OLG scandal involved insider wins, firing the CEO and a promise by the Premier to do better. The plot of the second OLG scandal involved expense abuses, firing the CEO and a promise to do better. The plot of this latest OLG scandal borrows heavily from OLG one, but the early reviews are that the $12.5-million insider fraud makes it the biggest blockbuster yesterday. Will the movie end with the CEO getting fired and another promise to do better?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for me to comment on a criminal matter that is before the courts, but I will remind the member that this occurred when his party was in power. I will also remind the member—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order. The member from Peterborough; the member from Renfrew.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Nepean will withdraw the comment.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Withdrawn.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The Ombudsman also addressed this case in his very good report that was presented to this House and that we acted on. I believe we have taken appropriate steps. I have great confidence in Paul Godfrey, who is now the chair of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp.

Unfortunately, these things happen. They happen—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Norm Miller: How can we have any faith when you don’t even know that this happened under your watch and you won’t acknowledge that it happened under your watch?

The McGuinty Liberals are expanding into Poker Lotto and online gaming, but the news of a $12.5-million fraud shows they aren’t able to manage dealing with live people.

The OLG investigated the ticket for an insider win and handed out the $12.5 million before the OPP stepped in.

The OLG has been without a CEO since you fired Kelly McDougald.

Deputy Premier, how will you restore the integrity of the OLG so people can have confidence that they won’t be cheated?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have recently appointed an entirely new board and given it a very clear mandate.

I do want to remind the party opposite about what André Marin said on September 14, 2009, with respect to the steps we took on this particular issue. He said, “We are rejoicing that the province has taken this position.”

Unfortunately, these situations are challenging. This was a particularly bad episode at OLG. We will continue to work with Mr. Godfrey and the new board as we move to find a new CEO and as we move to give Ontarians still greater confidence in that corporation and the future of the revenues that come from that corporation.

PENSION PLANS

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Acting Premier/finance minister. The minister opposed alternatives to winding up Nortel pensions, claiming other models have failed and would put pension money into more risky investments. Nortel pensioners pleaded for a financial sponsorship model, but the minister refused to listen to them and their experts. He has even refused to consider his own pension expert Dr. Arthurs’ recommended Ontario pension agency to grow up, not wind up, Nortel pensions.

Has anything changed the minister’s mind about winding up the Nortel pension?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have undertaken again, as a result of meetings with some of the affected individuals, to have another look at this.

First of all, let me acknowledge the very difficult circumstances those people find themselves in. Their first request to this government was to take $250 million and put it into the PBGF—taxpayers’ money—to protect the first $1,000 of their pension. We did that. It was the right thing and the appropriate thing to do.

In good faith, they’ve come forward with a proposal which, from the points of view of the various experts we have consulted—and we have consulted a number of them—has some very real challenges. In my view, the answer is not to continue to take the balance of what’s left, which can’t fund the entire liability, and invest it in riskier assets. There are challenges with that, but we’ll continue—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Last week in Ottawa, the Premier reversed the minister’s position, saying he would take a fresh look at the Nortel pensioners’ proposal. Today, it’s September 30. Nortel pensioners will either be put on the pension recovery road, as the Premier alluded to, or they will be forced down the annuity path to pension windup.

Have the minister and the Premier seen the light and directed the Financial Services Commission of Ontario to hold off any windup of the Nortel pensions?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The member’s party opposite likes to read from people. Let me read a couple of quotes.

“I am not one of the pensioners who is asking you to hold off on the windup and transfer our guaranteed pensions into some plan which has already failed in the UK. I would choose, and many more would, to leave it in the government’s guaranteed fund.” That reflects the views of one individual.

Here is a letter from another individual: “I have not been given access to the details of the FSM plan [that] the NRPC are proposing. How many pensioners will be alive to enjoy the upswing in the market, if it comes back? Now, if the OPBGF is not applicable to the FSM model, the economy and market will have to take an overnight leap to make up for the losses.”

There are risks associated with the proposal. We have undertaken to look at it again, and we are in the process of doing that. It is the appropriate and proper step to take.

SENIOR CITIZENS

Mrs. Liz Sandals: My question is for the minister responsible for seniors. Minister, seniors have made and continue to make outstanding contributions to our communities. At home in Guelph, seniors have organized the regional seniors’ games. The Guelph Wellington Seniors Association is the lead organization in one of our aging-at-home programs, called Make Yourself at Home, where they provide peer support and advocacy for seniors who live at home and help them navigate the system.

Tomorrow is October 1, the International Day of Older Persons. Can you outline, Minister, some of the ways in which our government is supporting Ontario seniors?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you to my honourable colleague for that very important question.

Let me say how excited I am to be the Minister Responsible for Seniors. In the short time that I’ve been in this portfolio, I’ve had the opportunity to meet some of Ontario’s dynamic and active seniors, and I look forward to working with all of our partners to ensure that our government is responding to the needs of Ontario’s seniors population.

The member is right: Tomorrow is the International Day of Older Persons. In addition to celebrating this very important day, our government celebrates June each year as Seniors’ Month. Earlier this year, we passed the Retirement Homes Act, providing for the first time protection for seniors in retirement homes, and earlier this week, I joined the Premier to announce our proposed energy and property tax credit for seniors.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Minister, we know that here in Ontario, like many other jurisdictions, our seniors population is growing rapidly. Over the next decade, Ontario will go through a significant demographic shift in its population. We know that next year, the first baby boomer will turn 65. I won’t be all that far behind. We know that by 2017, there will be more people over 65 than children under 15.

Minister, Ontario and our seniors need to be ready to take on the new challenges that will arise as Ontario changes. Can you tell us more about steps taken to alleviate pressures that Ontario seniors face, now and on into the future?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thanks again to the member for this important question. Our government has taken many steps to ensure Ontario seniors continue to have the support that they need to lead active and healthy lives. Under our proposed property and energy tax credit, which was announced this week, 740,000 seniors who own or rent their homes could get a maximum credit of $1,025 annually to help them with their energy and property taxes.

This year, we doubled the maximum Ontario senior homeowners property tax credit to $500. Ontario seniors are also eligible for our new permanent sales tax credit, which provides payment of up to $260 for each adult and child and is in addition to the existing GST credit. Our government is working hard to ensure Ontario seniors—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Minister, just this morning I’ve learned that the future of Wellington House, a long-term-care home in the town of Prescott, has been put in jeopardy. Minister, I’m told the reason your ministry staff won’t allow the sale of this facility to go through, to protect the residents, is outstanding fees owed to the ministry by a previous owner. Can you explain to the residents, their families and the community of Prescott why the desire of your ministry to collect an outstanding debt is being considered more important than the care of senior citizens?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, thank you, through you, to the member for the question. I suspect the member opposite knows that I will need to go back to get the background on this issue. I am not familiar with this situation.

What I can tell you, though, is that when it comes to long-term care, this government is focused on the quality of care for patients. We are making remarkable strides when it comes to looking after seniors who are residents in long-term-care homes. I want to take this opportunity to commend the work of the member from Nipissing. She did groundbreaking work when it comes to improving care for long-term-care patients. We are starting to see the results of that. I’m proud of the work we’re doing in long-term care and I look forward to finding an answer for the member opposite.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Steve Clark: Minister, let’s face it: It appears the ministry staff are putting unreasonable conditions on the sale of this property to the approved buyer. The buyer has stated his intention not only to continue operating Wellington House as a seniors’ care residence, but a desire to put additional money into enhancing the facilities there.

My question to you is: Will you review the stance of your ministry staff to ensure that the sale goes through and this vital care home can keep its doors open?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As I said in my initial response, I have to go and understand what this issue is about. I suspect it might be slightly more complicated than the member opposite is indicating.

But let me tell you, when it comes to long-term care—I want to talk about some of the quality improvements that are happening in long-term care. I was delighted to attend an event earlier this week where I had the opportunity to talk to 1,400 people from the long-term-care sector right across this province. Because of changes they have made related to quality, we are seeing the incidence of pressure ulcers dramatically reduced, the incidence of falls dramatically reduced. We are seeing the levels of depression in residents of long-term care dramatically reduced.

We have added a billion dollars to our long-term-care investment since we came to office, and we are continuing to improve the quality of care in our long-term-care homes.

HYDRO RATES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. Families across Ontario are being squeezed by this government’s hydro rate policies and the harmonized sales tax.

Mark and Jo-Ann Johnston from Thunder Bay write, “Our equal billing rate has gone from $120 a month to $148 per month.”

Why won’t the Acting Premier take the HST off Mr. and Mrs. Johnston’s hydro bills and give Thunder Bay families a much-needed break?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Ontario families also want investments in education and in health care, and they want a plan for a stronger economy in the future.

They want an energy sector that—frankly, it was left in horrible shape over the course of the last 30 years, when none of us came to terms with the reality that the system was not working; it was falling apart.

We’re making investments in energy, to build a stronger energy system. We are making changes to our tax system to make it more competitive, to lower income taxes for Ontarians, to lower taxes for businesses, to help create a stronger culture of job growth in the future. We have provided significant tax relief.

I’m very proud of our northern Ontario energy credit, which affects Thunder Bay, and I’m very proud of our northern industrial electricity price, which will help that part of the province—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What Ontario families are telling me is that they want a government that gives them a break.

Roger Tibbs, a pensioner in Thunder Bay, says, “I am finding it hard to make ends meet with all the price hikes.”

Jim Filograna writes, “We did not need this HST forced upon us at this time to make our lives even more difficult.”

The NDP’s plan to take the HST off hydro just makes sense. Why won’t the Acting Premier give Thunder Bay families a break and take the HST off people’s hydro bills?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I think those same people want to know if that member and her party will eliminate the HST. They’ve refused to say it.

I do want to put on the record something that was part of RBC’s report in September. Let me quote from that report:

“Very strong job creation recently is expected to keep Ontario consumers going to the shopping malls and car dealerships....

“We expect a more moderate yet still robust pace in 2011....”

As the Premier said in the House the other day, it is important to help people in the short term, but it is important to help build a stronger economy by a more efficient tax system and a better energy system.

We’re prepared to make the tough decisions and work with Ontarians to manage it.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Phil McNeely: My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Minister, we all know that water is one of the most precious resources we have for our well-being, our economic prosperity and our high standard of living.

Constituents in my riding of Ottawa–Orléans want to know about the quality of water coming out of our taps. The chief drinking water inspector’s report is the answer. I understand the most recent report was released yesterday. Minister, can you please tell this House the results of this report? Have Ontario municipal water systems improved their standards again this year?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank my colleague for the question.

I have good news to share with the House and I’m sure all will want to hear it: Ontario’s municipal drinking water is indeed the safest in North America and among the safest in the entire world. The most recent chief drinking water inspector’s annual report confirms that.

In the last five years, we have significantly transformed our approach to protecting Ontario’s drinking water with our comprehensive source-to-tap strategy. And here’s some very good news: 99.8% of the drinking water tests from municipal drinking water systems met Ontario’s strict drinking water standards.

We are making further progress: The number of systems testing 100% every time has improved by some 16%, to almost 50% of all systems. More than 600,000 samples were tested last year from 700 municipal residential—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Phil McNeely: Minister, my constituents and, I’m sure, all Ontarians will be relieved to know that their drinking water is safer than it has ever been. I’m sure that the hard work of your staff will make sure that all Ontario water systems reach 100% compliance.

The people in my riding of Ottawa–Orléans are also concerned about the safety of the drinking water at their children’s schools, their families’ summer campsites and the hospitals caring for their loved ones. They want to make sure that the drinking water coming out of their taps is just as safe as it is in their own homes. Is the McGuinty government serious about making the water in those places just as safe as the water in their own homes?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank the member for the supplemental because we have learned some very hard lessons in this province, and I want to let people know that safe, clean drinking water doesn’t just stop at your front door. Non-municipal residential systems in designated facilities like hospitals and schools are also subject to testing now, and more than 99% of those samples are also meeting our rigorous standards.

We’re also working with our sister Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and with local public units to conduct risk assessments on small water systems. We have 19 committees working on protecting our drinking water from source to tap and back to source right across this province, and we are working with our schools and day nurseries as part of our lead action plan to make sure that their drinking water is also free of this very dangerous toxin—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Last week, I asked the minister when this government would follow through on their promise to release the long-awaited affordable housing strategy. The minister’s empty response greatly upset the housing industry and the agencies, but, most of all, it upset the 142,000 Ontarians on the waiting list.

I would ask the minister again: Please tell Ontarians when you are releasing this promised report.

Interjections.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: I want everyone to be quiet, please, because I’m listening for the clang of thunder, the bolt of lightning to come down because this is the second affordable housing question the Harris-Hudak government has asked since 2003—two questions on affordable housing.

The sincerity on that side cannot be matched by the sincerity on this side. You see, the difference is, we’re committed to an affordable—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock for a moment. I’m finding it very difficult to hear the minister answer the question, and that difficulty is because of the noise coming from the government side.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I couldn’t hear it.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister of Community Safety.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister of Economic Development, for a second time.

Minister?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: Let me continue. When the Harris-Hudak government was in place, they cancelled 17,000 units. We’re about building units; they’re about cancelling units.

We will continue to ensure that our long-term affordable—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I can assure the minister that this isn’t the last time the Hudak government is going to be asking questions about affordable housing.

The minister had told us about the consultations that he has held and that he’s very, very—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Members will please come to order. Minister.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Oxford.

Please continue.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: Mr. Speaker, I think you’re having a hard time hearing answers because there aren’t any.

I understand that the minister is very, very, very, very committed, but what he refuses to tell us is when this report will be released. The government is clearly stalling.

My question is straight to the point and it doesn’t require lingering answers. Will the long-awaited affordable housing strategy be released this fall? Yes or no?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: We’re ensuring that the long-term affordable housing strategy is a strategy that works for Ontarians. We’re not going to be like you. We’re not going to be like the previous Harris-Hudak government, which said that they should get out of affordable housing. At least, that’s what the minister at the time said.

We’re about ensuring that we put a plan in place that works, that is long-term, that builds units, not about cancelling units, not about destroying 17,000 units, not about keeping people out of homes. We are about building affordable homes, we are about ensuring that there is a housing strategy in place that works.

Yes, we will be releasing that strategy. We will ensure that that strategy works for the people of Ontario, not like the Harris-Hudak—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. Order. Member from Oxford. Minister. Order.

New question?

FOOD SAFETY

Mr. Peter Kormos: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. In 2004 , the Haines report concluded, “The lack of a fish inspection program in Ontario constitutes a risk to the public.” Justice Haines called upon the Ministry of Agriculture and Food to implement a mandatory fish inspection program. This provincial government even received $40 million from the federal government to cover the costs of this and other food safety initiatives.

Why, five years later, does this ministry still not have a fish inspection program or a single fish plant inspector to protect Ontarians who eat that fish?

Hon. Carol Mitchell: Certainly, I’m very pleased to rise and speak specifically to meat safety. What I want to talk about today is that our priority is, number one—

Interjections.

Hon. Carol Mitchell: The question is addressed to the Minister of Ag, so that meat falls within. That’s why I really want to speak to it, because I know how important it is for people—they know, they understand, they want to buy Ontario product, and they buy Ontario product because our priority is number one.

We know that we have our meat inspectors out on the ground. We have 160 more meat inspectors—107 full-time, 63 part-time. The Haines report brought forward recommendations. We’re implementing those recommendations. Ontario products—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Kormos: Meat comes from animals that walk. Fish swim.

Smoked fish and raw fish are at a particularly high risk of contamination, and there are numerous reports of false labelling of fish used for sushi. Meat plants are inspected monthly, yet the 90 fish plants in Ontario aren’t inspected at all. They’re only audited once a year by a Ministry of Natural Resources official, who has no power to impose corrective actions or close down contaminated plants.

Over five years have passed since the Haines report. How many more years are going to have to pass before this government finally protects the health and safety of Ontarians by putting in place a strong and effective fish inspection program?

Hon. Carol Mitchell: I’m very pleased to answer the question, and the question was addressed to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. Within my jurisdiction falls the responsibility of meat inspection. I answered the question last week and this week.

What we know is that with the implementation of the Haines report, 150 meat inspectors are working hard. We have tougher standards and we have more inspectors. People want to buy Ontario products. We have gone in to help the local abattoirs, for an additional $1.5 million. We have provided up to $26 million in order to meet the tough standards. Food processing in Ontario has very rigorous standards, and I’m very pleased to respond to that question as the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs.

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

Mr. David Zimmer: My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. I’ve been getting a lot of phone calls at my office from constituents who have worked many years in the manufacturing sector, where the economic recovery has been slower to take hold. They’re concerned about talk that the federal PC government will withdraw employment insurance stimulus funding prematurely; that they’re going to stick to some arbitrary deadlines without considering the economic realities faced by Ontarians, especially in the manufacturing sector. Minister, what is our government doing in light of the federal government’s actions, which will punish so many Ontario workers?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I want to thank the member for the timely question. Indeed, the federal government is starting to walk away from its funding obligations, impeding the progress of Ontario families as we deal with this difficult worldwide recession. For example, the federal government ended two programs on September 11. The enhancements provided extended benefits to those Ontarians who are looking for work. These stimulus measures provided five weeks of additional employment insurance benefits for all workers and an extra 20 weeks of benefits for long-tenured workers.

This means that those long-term workers will no longer be able to receive, on average, over $7,000 in support as they work toward supporting their families and discovering new careers. Some 42% of Canada’s long-tenured workers live in Ontario. That is a huge hindrance to Ontario families as we try to come out of this difficult time—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. David Zimmer: Minister, you’ve quite rightly made the point that the federal Conservative government is not living up to its funding obligations and is short-changing Ontario workers. I understand as well that at the end of March next year, the two-year enhancements to our labour market training agreements will end. This is going to cut $623 million in federal investments in training for Ontario workers. Minister, what is our government using this funding for? Will we continue to support Ontario workers who want to participate in the new economy?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: To the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. John Milloy: I want to thank the member for this very important question and just comment a bit on what some of the $623 million is used for in terms of helping Ontarians. The funding that the federal government is going to cut is right now used to provide 61,000 learners with literacy and basic skills training. It’s helping 120,000 apprentices with their studies and encouraging 17,000 immigrants to integrate into Ontario’s job market. By ending this funding, some 16,000 Ontarians could lose opportunities to develop labour market skills, which are crucial in this current economic climate.

Despite the federal government’s decision to withdraw this funding, our government remains committed to ensuring that Ontarians are able to retrain and retool so that our province can remain competitive. I remind members that in this year’s budget—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

I would just say to the government House leader that I thank her for her comments, but I’m quite comfortable in this chair and will make my decisions accordingly.

Mr. Norm Miller: On a point of order, Speaker: The OLG scandal dates from a ticket sold in December 2003, redeemed in—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): That is not a point of order.

DEFERRED VOTES

CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR LES ACTIVITÉS DES ENFANTS

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 99,

An Act to amend the Taxation Act, 2007 to implement the children’s activity tax credit / Projet de loi 99, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2007 sur les impôts pour mettre en oeuvre le crédit d’impôt pour les activités des enfants.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): We have a deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 99. Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1140 to 1145.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Members, please take your seats.

Ms. Smith has moved second reading of Bill 99. All those in favour will rise one at a time and be recorded by the Clerk.

Ayes

Aggelonitis, Sophia

Arnott, Ted

Bailey, Robert

Balkissoon, Bas

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Brownell, Jim

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Steve

Colle, Mike

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dickson, Joe

DiNovo, Cheri

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Elliott, Christine

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoskins, Eric

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jaczek, Helena

Jones, Sylvia

Kormos, Peter

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

MacLeod, Lisa

Mangat, Amrit

Marchese, Rosario

Matthews, Deborah

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Murray, Glen R.

Phillips, Gerry

Prue, Michael

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramal, Khalil

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Savoline, Joyce

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Sousa, Charles

Sterling, Norman W.

Tabuns, Peter

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 67; the nays are 0.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I declare the motion carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Shall the bill be ordered for third reading? The Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I would ask that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): So ordered.

There being no further deferred votes, this House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1148 to 1300.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

NORMAN ATKINS

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: On behalf of Tim Hudak and Ontario Progressive Conservatives, I am saddened to speak of our good friend Senator Norm Atkins’s passing.

It is well known that Senator Atkins was one of the architects of the Big Blue Machine who saw so many Progressive Conservative governments elected here at Queen’s Park and throughout Canada. He helped get legends like Bill Davis and Brian Mulroney elected, and in my humble opinion, Senator Atkins was a legend himself.

I first met Senator Atkins as a young staffer on Parliament Hill. He was close friends with Senator Mike Forrestall, a family friend. My first impressions of Senator Atkins were lasting. He was a kind-hearted gentleman who always greeted you with a smile and he always looked you in the eye. He was a nice man, especially for politics. He had a knack for making even the most junior political operatives among us feel that our contributions were important, and I can tell you that first-hand. I know that for sure.

Senator Atkins’s friends will tell you he was the happy warrior. He was always positive, with a great sense of camaraderie and teamwork. He made politics fun, and his trademark was, “Let’s get the job done while having some fun.” That’s why he could rally people to the cause. That would be, of course, the Progressive Co