Manitoba Hansard — 23 June 2016 (Sitting 27B, 41st Legislature, 1st Session)

41-1-27b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXIX No. 27B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, June 23, 2016 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CHIEF, Kevin Point Douglas NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon.

River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

1391 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 23, 2016 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 203–The Legal Profession Amendment Act (Queen's Counsel Appointments) Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): It gives me great pleasure to introduce– Madam Speaker: The member has to move it through the appropriate protocol. Mr. Fletcher: I move, with –seconded by the member from Brandon West, an amendment to the Bill 203–an amendment to The Legal Profession Act. This bill will– Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fletcher: So much red tape. Okay. Thank you.

I'd like to move, seconded by the membe r from Brandon West, The Legal Profession Amendment Act–that Bill 203, The Legal Profession Amendment Act (Queen's Counsel Appointments), be read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: This bill brings back a long tradi - tion in Canada of the Queen 's Counsel designation QC to recognize outstanding achievements to the community and to our country by the legal profession. The gist is, a person would need to provide outstanding contributions to society, serve as a lawyer for at least 10 years and there's a limit of the number of appointments that can be made per year.

Madam Speaker, this will bring us in line with majority of provinces in Manitoba and has very strong support from the Manitoba Bar Association and enthusiastic comments from the Law Soci ety of Manitoba. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Madam Speaker: In accordance with

section 42 of The Ombudsman Act, and subsection 26(1) of The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Act, and subsection 58(1) of The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, and subsection 37(1) of the personal health act, I am pleased to table the Annual Report of the Manitoba Ombudsman for the year ended December 31st, 2015. Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report of the Civil Service Superannuation Board for 2015. Madam Speaker: Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Lundar Agricultural Fair Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake): It gives me great pleasure today, Madam Speaker, to address the House and speak of an event that I attended a few weeks ago, the annual event, the Lundar Agriculture Fair. It's a great community event that brings residents from all over the Interlake. I witnessed the 4 -H calf sale, participated in the parade and many other spectacular events, including the vintage tractor pull. The 64th year of tradition has had many a great Manitoban engaged in the festivities. These rural fairs are the cornerstone of bringing communities together.

This fair in particular has roots all the way from 1917 and has gone on and off for almost a century. A special thanks to the directors of the Agriculture Society in Lundar: President Mike Kostyshyn, Vice -president Ken Sweetland, Secretary-treasurer Cynthia Wirgau and Sandra Pott. My thanks also extend to all the volunteers and organizers, while making the point not to forget everybody who attended. Madam Speaker, this fair has deep roots within the Interlake. This is an iconic event that has spanned through two great wars and always come back to foster a strong community.

1392 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 I am proud of my constituency and constituents and always had a great time when I attend. There is also a one- day music festival coming up, the Oak Point Music Festival, featuring Country Pride, Sacred Stone, square dancing and many, many more activities. I hope to see everyone there. General Wolfe Wolfpack Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): They are tough, quick and dedicated. They worked all –hard all season toward a goal.

And, Madam Speaker, I am West End proud to tell you that this season the senior boys' basketball team at General Wolfe School won the Junior High Invitational Tournament for the first time in the school's history. The Wolfpack surprised many in the tournament, as they entered as the sixth seed. They had to beat three suburban schools to claim the title. After a close win over the Arthur Leach Lancers, the Wolfpack went on to defe at the Kildonan East Reivers by a narrow margin of only three points to qualify for the tournament final.

In the final, the Wolfpack faced the Garden City Gophers, the top- ranked team in the tournament, in front of a supportive West End crowd. In their t wo previous games, the Gophers had dominated their opponents, beating them each by over 20 points. Yet the Gophers were no match for the Wolfpack's defensive discipline and were unable to stop wily point guard Montey Everd and six- foot-two centre post Isaiah Letander. The Wolfpack brought the championship trophy home to Ellice Avenue, winning by a score of 53 to 43.

Long- serving head coach Victor Guerra and assistant coach Jeff Prosken have done an incredible job this season. In typical West End fashion, though, they pass on all the credit to the team for their work ethic and cohesiveness. My West End neighbours and I celebrate the results of the teamwork and dedication of the players, coaches, staff and parents. I'm excited to see what the future bri ngs as these fine young men move on to attend high school this September. Both the DMCI and Tec Voc basketball programs are eagerly awaiting their arrival as we look for more championships for Winnipeg's West End.

Madam Speaker, I ask this House for lea ve to have the names of the players and coaches of the General Wolf Wolfpack recorded permanently in Hansard. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to have the names permanently included in Hansard? [Agreed] Kevin Ly, Isaiah Letander, Kenniston Roxas, Montey Everd, Jordan Agustin, Justin Ducusin, Josh Teano, Aaron Varila, Ahron Teodocio, Rhandel Banzon, Tommy Tran, Michael Sancio, Victor Guerra (head coach), Jeff Prosken (assistant coach) Parental Rights and Responsibilities in Education Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): Madam Speaker, it's graduation season.

Next week, thousands of grade 12 students in Manitoba, including my oldest son Mike, will complete their studies and celebrate their achievements. I'm grateful to all the teachers, coaches and school administrators who have invested their time and energy in these students. The very same week, my wife, who is also a teacher, is due to give birth to our youngest child. So in one instance, I'll be spanning a wide spectrum of parenting–of the parenting journey, from birth to high school graduation. So I find myself asking, what really is our mandate as parents and as educators?

Is it to provide not just food, shelter and clothing but opportunities and experiences? Or is it to protect our children from harsh realities like bullying and discrimination or to shelter them from the effects of pornography, alcohol and drugs? And there's no doubt that these are important. But the parents and educators who hit closest to the mark are those who understand tha t their job is to prepare our children for adult life, to prepare them to deal with harsh realities. I want my daughter to know how to stand up to a bully. I want my son to treat the women and girls in his life with respect.

And I want my children to understand the consequences of using drugs and alcohol. It's important, too, that our public and independent schools realize that their role is to help the parents. It's not just a parent's right to choose the type of education that their children has, but it's their responsibility.

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1393 * (13:40) Now, some have said that our schools should be places where the beliefs and cultural identity of the parents are deemed irrelevant, or worse, something to be resisted or corrected. But such thinking is wrong. My indige nous colleagues surely remember Justice Sinclair saying how wrong it is to prevent the transmission of cultural values and identity from one generation to the next.

So this season, as we witness many graduations with young people entering a new stage of l ife filled with hope and optimism for the future, let's never forget that these children are our future, and it was our job to prepare them as best we could to meet these challenges, to stand up for justice, to show kindness and compassion and to carry on the traditions, beliefs– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Intern Appreciation Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Madam Speaker, today I rise to show appreciation for the interns on both sides of this House.

Their last day with their caucuses is tomorrow and what a quick 10 months it has been. It seems like just yesterday the interns were first introduced to our caucuses. They have now become integral parts of our teams. This year's interns have had one of the most unique experiences in years: two throne speeches, one budget, one economic fiscal update, study trips to Ottawa and Toronto along with weekly seminars with some of Manitoba and Canada's most prominent leaders and, of course, one of the most historic election wins in our province.

The election outcome gave the interns a look at how both opposition and government function. As I'm sure members opposite are now noticing, interns can play a large role when staff is a little bit smaller. Over the years, the program has seen its fair share of outstanding young minds, this year being no exception. The Minister of Health, the Clerk of the Assembly, various staffers in the building and, of course, Madam Speaker, myself, were all interns in the past.

And while I could wax eloquently about when I was an intern and had to walk to work uphill both ways, I won't, but I can attest to the valuable work that they've –been done by the interns over the years and the significant role they play within our respective caucuses. So to Lane, Tara and Meagan, thank you for all the work you have done over the last 10 months. Whether it was essential opposition research, helping us tran sition into government or other duties as assigned, your work did not go unnoticed. You will not be forgotten and we wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

Hopefully your experience in the Legislature has inspired you and we will see you in this building representing Manitoba, sharing your own stories of when I was an intern. Thank you. First Nations Communities Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): I am from St. Theresa Point First Nation. I am an Island Laker. Island Lake is comprised of four reserves: St. Theresa Point, Garden Hill, Red Sucker Lake and Wasagamack. We are over 13,000 strong. We originate from the old post trade settlement; we were once one group of people.

It is when the differing missionaries came to the old post that we began to divide into the four communities. There still exists magnificence in my people's cultural beliefs and our value systems. I am living proof of that. And it is through these values that we are a collective group still. We laugh, love, live and play together. If you have ever been to the area of 10,000 lakes in Ontario, that is what my home looks like. It is a vast unspoiled wilderness, and it is breathtaking. Our traplines and our treaties cover the entire area.

We still have elders who fondly talk about the time before currency existed there. They talk about how gratifying it was to wake at dawn, work all day and how restful sleep came at dusk. It is still like that on our traplines. We work to live and we live off our lands. If you can imagine all your favourite camping spots, that's what trapline life is like, without amenities and stores. This year, St. Theresa is proud to boast that it will have over 100 graduates from secondary and post-secondary schools alike. As we break into summer, I encourage all members here to visit a First Nation community.

This one small gesture is what you can do to close the gap these communities feel and have felt since contact. My own community holds the world's Guinness Book of Records for bannock and we celebrate our annual Bannock Festival on–starting June 29th to July 3rd. And you are all invited. Thank you.

1394 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral quest ions, we have some guests here with us today. In the loge to my right is the former member from Gimli, Ed Helwer, and we'd like to welcome you here. And also in the public gallery is Candice Bergen, MP for Portage -Lisgar, and the guest for the honourable member for Portage. * * * And, also, because it is the last day for a number of our pages, I just want to tell you a little bit about each of them, and then we can wish them all a fond farewell and good luck.

The first of the pages I would like to mention is Ceanray Harris-Read, who is a grade 12 student at Churchill High. Her average is 95. Ceanray hopes to study political science at the University of Ottawa in the fall. She aspires to become a human rights lawyer. She is head of her school peace, and this group promotes good mental health for high school students. She is active in the domain of health advocacy and sits on the Manitoba Adolescent Treatment Centre youth advisory board. Ceanray is a member of cabinet for the Franco -Manitoba Youth Parliament.

She would someday like to be elected to the Manitoba Legislature. Megha Kaushal, and Megha will graduate grade 12 on the 26th of June with an average of 97. In July she will take a prerequisite course, and then in the fall attend the University of M anitoba in the faculty of pharmacy. Her outside interests are handball and curling. Megha is involved in the grad committee and a youth philanthropy group that gets grant money, and then studies various social groups decides who to support. Megha hopes to stay in Manitoba.

And Julia Antonyshyn, Julia has been a student of the collegiate at the University of Winnipeg and graduated in April from grade 12 with an average of 97. Julia is interested in pursuing a career in environmental studies and hopes to combine this with a career in politics. Her outside interests are softball, playing the guitar, and she is involved with United Church of Canada. Julia really enjoyed her year as a page here and hopes one day to be a member of the Assembly. And to all o ur pages, we want to wish you the very best.

This is an incredible experience for you, a very unique one, and all of us wish you all the best in your future. ORAL QUESTIONS Canada Pension Plan Reform Government Position Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): It is no wonder that when Manitobans think of the Premier and this government, the first thing that comes to mind is a hidden agenda. Nothing shows this more than his response to the new national Canada Pension Plan agreement reached earlier this week. The Premier's government didn't support the deal. When asked what their position is, they say–they said, stay tuned.

Instead, the Premier, who made his fortune in the private pension industry, lectured Manitobans on the need for private pension investments. Why won't the Premier admit that his real agenda is to promote a privatized pension and that is why he won't support this historic commitment to Canada's public pension system? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, Manitobans rejected the NDP because they demonstrated what a hidden agenda looked like, and all Manitobans understand what it looked like. They went to the doors of the people of Manitoba. They walked and knocked.

They promised as they looked into the eyes of the people of this beautiful province that they would not raise their taxes, then they proceeded, of course, to do exactly the opposite of what they had promised, taking, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars off the kitchen tables of working families across the province, making it harder for them to save for retirement. And now they come here, the remnants of that party, and they claim that they're defending the very people whose pockets they picked. This is hardly a credible record. We have an agenda to strengthen the Canada Pension Plan.

We will fight for Manitoba's best interests. That is what this government is about. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. * (13:50) Ms. Marcelino: The Premier, on CJOB, announced that he's not clawing back seniors' tax rebate, and four days before election it was confirmed by a campaign manager.

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1395 Madam Speaker, this Premier is clearly out of touch with the reality facing regular Manitobans. He said solely relying on the CPP would be a major mistake. Well, Madam Speaker, for more than 11 million Canadians who don't have a pension–private pension plan, the biggest mistake would be to adopt this Premier's agenda and not enhance our public pension plan. Why doesn't t he Premier get the fact that many Manitobans don't have the option of investing in the stock market or offshore corporations, but they need a public pension system that works for them? Mr.

Pallister: And, of course, that's what we're doing: fighting for a public pension program that works for Canadians. There are also many Canadians –[interjection] Members opposite had 17 years, did nothing to advance the cause of improving the Canada Pension Plan for Manitobans or Canadians generally. Now they come here and they claim they're standing up for the very people whose pockets they so liberally picked over the last number of years.

Now, a rush to approve the pension plan when it is 50 years–a half century –old and this is the first opportunity that Canadians hav e had to see it made better is hardly in the best interests of Canadians. There's an

article today in The Globe and Mail; I encourage the members to have it read to them. They would find that what it says, and I quote now, is: "Many questions remain, inc luding how the expansion will affect federal and provincial programs for low -income Canadians." These are the questions we're asking.

These–this is the opportunity this government is taking to stand up for Manitobans, including millions of Manitobans who currently do not benefit from this pension plan at all and many others who are living with a low income who stand to lose net income potentially as an improper application or change of this program may– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: The Premier referenced a Globe and Mail article. That's one article. There are several other articles in Globe and Mail approving of the expansion of CPP.

Madam Speaker, the Premier is on the wrong side of history on an issue that has been discussed publicly for years. To suggest that he and his government can't reveal their position because they haven't been in government long enough is simply not acceptabl e. Our position as New Democrats is clear. We fought for enhanced public pensions in government. We support this historic deal today alongside with eight other Canadian provinces. Why won't the Premier get on board and support this historic agreement to improve the CPP for Manitobans and Canadians? Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister. Mr.

Pallister: –government never missed an opportunity to pick the pockets of Manitobans and did so with great regularity, making it harder for Manitobans to save f or retirement, making it harder for Manitobans to create jobs in their small businesses, making it harder for Manitobans to make the necessary spending decisions to support today's needs with future investments. Nowhere else in the country was it harder than under the NDP for citizens of this country to save for retirement. Now they pretend they defend Manitobans' best interests when all they did in the past was attack those.

Now, this is an historic opportunity. It's an opportunity to stand up for a better CPP. That's exactly what we're doing. We will not be rushed. We will not miss it. Here's another quote. I encourage the members to have this read to them, and they may comprehend it if they are listening. It says here: And this announcement–"Monday's announcement raises questions as to whether every finance minister was fully aware of what had been agreed to during the fast-paced negotiations." We are going to get this right. We will not miss the opportunity to get it right.

We will stand up for Manitobans and all Canadians in the hopes that we can get this historic opportunity right. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Ms. Marcelino: We wish the Premier would read other articles from The Globe and Mail, as well, on this issue. Not just that one article. Madam Speaker, what is very obvious is the fact that this government is a one -person show. The Finance Minister could do nothing more than say we will be updating you as soon as we can after Cabinet

1396 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 yesterday. It is pretty clear that he has to wait for the Premier's direction. Why won't this Premier share his true agenda with Manitobans? What has he got to hide? Mr. Pallister: Tremendous personal satisfaction in listening to members of the opposition speak about teams when they failed to demonstrate in any way, shape or form that they had the faintest idea what a team was when they were in government.

There is no chance that the mem ber would want to avail herself of a historic opportunity to improve the CPP; she's just said so on behalf of her beleaguered party. That rump has said they'll adopt whatever, but half of them don't understand how the CPP works and the other half have no desire to stand up and make it work better. We on this side of the House are a team. We will fight for Manitoba's best interests, and we will use this opportunity to make the CPP the best possible plan it can be for all Canadians. Madam Speaker: The hono urable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question.

Ms. Marcelino: The Premier has embarrassed and disadvantaged our province by his decision on CPP reform. Under the NDP, we were leading proponents of enhancing the CPP. U nder the Premier, this Premier, we now have a government that is promoting a private pension plan system that benefits corporations like Sun Life, but won't come clean with its real agenda. Why is the Premier once again imposing his own personal agenda on this government and the people of Manitoba? Mr. Pallister: On this side of the House is the agenda of Manitobans' best interests. The member uses a phrase: leading propo- nents.

Perhaps the member would like to address the record in this particular subj ect and suggest to Manitobans how it could be that anyone, any political organization that would go to the doors of Manitobans, look them in the eye, promise not to raise their taxes, and then raise their taxes on their very homes –the very homes they went to–by 8 per cent on their home insurance was helping Manitobans in any way, shape or form save for a better retirement.

Maybe she could explain and put on the record how going to the people of Manitoba, promising that she and her colleagues would not r aise the taxes on Manitobans, and then raising them on the benefits that people purchase through their employment opportunities to protect their very families by eight additional percentage points was doing anything but jeopardizing the ability of Manitoba ns and their working families to work in the best interests of securing a better retirement for themselves.

This is a government–this previous government– that has repeatedly demonstrated that it will raid the pocketbooks of Manitobans because it has a spending problem it can never get under control. We will. Madam Speaker: I would just like to encourage all members that, when asking questions or providing answers, that they do it through the Chair. Thank you. The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: If there's any explanations to be done, the Premier has to explain to seniors why he clawed back their tax rebate.

Madam Speaker, this is one of the most important public issues we are dealing with to day, the pension plan, the CPP pension plan. It will determine whether young Manitobans today will have decent pensions tomorrow. Madam Speaker, it is time for leadership on this issue. Eight provinces and the federal government have had the guts to stand for public pensions. Why is the Premier hiding his true agenda? Why won't he admit his goal is to undercut public pension reform and promote a failed privatized pension agenda? Mr. Pallister: I would encourage the member to get in touch with the facts.

The facts are these: Manitobans have had their incomes eroded by the previous administration's monstrous tax hikes by more than any other Canadian citizens. Manitoba's economy would be more jeopardized by increases in payroll tax than any other province. The members opposite appear not to be concerned about the impact of their previous decisions on the poor in our province. They appear not to be concerned about the impact on Manitoba families, Madam Speaker, and they appear not to be at all aware of the fact that the CPP is not funded by

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1397 governments, but is funded by Manitoba working families and small-business employers. * (14:00) Manitobans deserve to have a plan that works for them. We will fight for such a plan. There are a number of areas of concern. There are a lot of loose ends according to this columnist, again, in The Globe and Mail, in a different article, a lot of loose ends to be tied up, and I would say, says this commentator, an expert on pensions, I would say the arbitrary deadline could be a n obstacle to getting those things right.

We will not accept that after over half a century, this opportunity should be missed. We will fight for Manitobans' best interests. The members opposite never took a stand in favour of CPP reform– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Canada Pension Plan Reform Government Position Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): You know, the Premier's not admitting what the rest of us in Manitoba know, and the fact is is that he's blinded by his own association with the private sector when it comes to pensions.

At least part of the Horatio Alger story the Premier likes to tell o wes itself to his relationship to selling private pensions for Sun Life over many, many years. In fact, this morning, he just told us that he's still a registered salesperson for Sun Life. Will the First Minister admit that he needs to stop acting like a salesperson for Sun Life, and start acting like the Premier of Manitoba and join the national consensus on the CPP? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): In the last week to 10 days of the NDP's campaign in the last provincial election they resorted to the D onald Trump style of politics.

They launched into character assassination and techniques designed to prop up their fading support. They did so much to their own, well, eventual embarrassment, if they are reflecting on those tactics. Many commentators inclu ding former NDP supporters have said the same. The member now attempts to impugn my integrity and attack my motivations, and he has no justification in doing so, none whatsoever. I would encourage him not to do that.

I would encourage him to realize ther e's a reason Manitobans rejected that kind of politics, because Manitobans believe in honest and straightforward questions and answers in this place, as I am giving to him now. I would encourage him not to resort to this style of politics. Alleging, as he has just done, that I'm in some sort of conflict as a part of the discussion around CPP reform, something that's happening for the first time in 60 years in our country, is over the top and I would encourage him to depart from that type of tactic.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview, on a supplementary question. Mr. Allum: The Premier and his Finance Minister won't tell us who they've consulted with when it comes to the CPP, but they did meet with Sun Life when they met–went to Toronto after the budget, and Sun Life is not part of the consortium of lenders premiers normally meet with at this time. Will the Finance Minister come clean with Manitobans today, and tell us why he won't stand up to his Premier and support the national consensus on the CPP that eight out of nine other provinces have joined in this country? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Well, first of all, and once again, the member is wrong. The trip to Toronto that we undertook was important to gi ve consolation to lenders to the Province of Manitoba in the lieu of record borrowings by the previous government, borrowings that in this year alone amount to $6.5 billion. Never before have we been there as a province. In respect of his question on CP P enhancement, however, the member is also wrong because we've said, very clearly, it is– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Minister of Finance. Mr.

Friesen : And we've said very importantly – earnestly, that it's important to get this discussion right. We will take the time. We will get it right, and others are standing with us today to say, when it comes to proceeding too hastily, mistakes get made. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview, on a final supplementary. Mr. Allum: Well, after the Finance Minister refused to say what alternatives he had in mind for the CPP, he told the media that he would have 20–he would get more information in 24 hours.

1398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 It's now 48 hours later. We still don't know what alternatives they're going to put on the table, and that's because there are no alternatives. So–well, I ask now the Premier (Mr. Pallister): Will he phone the Finance Minister, pick up the phone today, the federal Finance Minister, tell him he's sorry. Tell him he's sorry, tell him he's sorry he embarrassed Manitobans and he's going to sign the agreement on the CPP right now, today, this afternoon? Will he make that commitment to the House? Mr.

Friesen : You know, there's so much misinformation on the other side of the House. I think that they demonstrate very well the need for financial literacy on these matters. Only yesterday and the day before they were suggesting somehow that seniors would be helped right now. Nothing could be further from the truth. They suggested in their conversations that it's about income support. It's not; it's about income replacement.

But this is very peculiar because now they're talking about some kind of long-held position on CPP enhancement whereby only a year ago– only a year ago–only a year ago their own members were talking about a preference for a go -it-alone Ontario-style approach. Which one is it, and why can't they get their message straight? Sewage Treatment Plant Timeline for Improvements Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Can the government please explain why they've removed the deadline for improvements to the City of Winnipeg's North End sewage treatment plant? Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sustainable Development): Thank you to the member opposite. Unless he knows something different that I don't know, we haven't had any contact with the City of Winnipeg requesting anything like that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Allum: Well, it's very interesting to hear that from the minister. There are headlines in local media with titles such as, no completion date in the pipe for North End sewage treatment plant upgrades. So there certainly used to be deadlines in place, put in place by our government.

We are now getting reports that those have been removed. I'm wondering: Just to get a sense of the scale of the challenge that this government might be walking away from, can the minister tell us how many tons of phosphorus are going from Winnipeg into Lake Winnipeg right now? Mrs. Cox: Thank you so much for that question. It's a question that –or it's a concern that we do have in government, and it's a question that members opposite have had for 17 years. We're working together with the City of Winnipeg.

It's a huge project, and it's a project that we haven't been told about any different deadlines that were–are currently in place. So thanks for that. And if he knows any information that I don't, I'd look forward to hearing it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Mr. Allum: Yes, well, this very same minister is quoted in the

article written by Bartley Kives from CBC News as saying that her government is now open t o a different approach on this project, and it will be interesting to see what comes out of this. I'm sure the reporter will have some questions for the minister. Assuming the–assuming that the minister didn't know the answer to my second question, the c orrect answer, though it'll vary from year to year, is over 400 tons of phosphorus because these plants have not been improved. Our party had $100 million on the table. Where has that money gone?

Why is this government not taking sewage improvement seriously for the future of Manitoba? Mrs. Cox : I thank the member opposite for that question. * (14:10) You've had 17 years to find out those figures and not get it right and not ensure that there's been any less phosphorus or nitrogen leeched out into the public water. So I thank you for that question.

And I do know that when we did talk to the Winnipeg Sun recently we did indicate that it was a huge product–project and the upgrades are extensive, and we're going to work with the City and attempt to balance the costs and ensure that there's a reasonable timeline. I don't know where you've heard that the

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1399 dates have changed, but if you've got something in writing, I'd appreciate seeing it. Thank you. Madam Speaker: I would just ask that all members when making their answers or questions that they direct them through the Chair and in the third -party words instead of using the word you, so that would help the debate immensely. So thank you very much. Investment in Child Care Government Funding Plan Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): In 2010, in the fifth year of a federal transfer agreement, Manitoba was slated to receive $54.8 million for child care.

Our NDP government invested this money as part of its work in building 100 new facilities, improving wages and creating the first ever pension plan for ECEs and child- care workers and maintained the lowest child-care fees in Canada outside of Quebec. With no real plan to address the growing child-care needs in Manitoba, is this government planning to meet with the federal government to request a similar partnership to improve child care in Manitoba? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): I want to thank the member opposite for the question. Child care is extremely important to us as a government.

That 's why we have a strong plan to enhance child care for the citizens of Manitoba. We think that there's too much red tape and barriers to starting child care. We know that home -based child care is part of the answer. We also know that partnering with school divisions is an important piece of the equation. We also know that having more ECEs, whether you provide them through bursaries, is a part of the answer. So that's why we're so excited about our project in terms of our plan for child care moving forward. Thank you. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Swan: Well, the minister talks of a plan, but he hasn't actually given Manitobans any detail on what this plan might be. This is a challenging file. It's challenging to keep up even when you're running hard. It is impossible when you're standing still. Last year the NDP government increased capital funding support to 40 per cent of capital costs for non-profit, community -based child -care projects. This capital funding would build on our record of creating 14,000 new licensed spaces from 1999 to 2016, building 100 new facilities and creating 70 annual training spaces for ECEs.

Since this government commitment so far is to fund only home -based cen tres and refusing to fund any new builds, including those new works, can Manitoba families and child -care workers conclude this government is abandoning this funding model? Mr. Fielding: Our government is extremely proud of the plan that we have for child care. We think that, once again, if we –if you have partnerships with school divisions, if you have an ability to reduce red tape in terms of providing some of the daycares – child-care spaces that are there, one thing is for sure: We believe our plan is most realistic.

The plan that we had for the NDP over the last 17 years is to have over 12,000 people on the waiting list. I can guarantee you one thing. By the end of this term of the government, we will not be in the realms–we will not be promising pie -in-the-sky proposals that we don't think is realistic. We think our plan is the most realistic. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Well, when the Minister for Families realizes that this government–the NDP g overnment created 14,000 new, licensed daycare spaces in Manitoba, it's not pie in the sky; it's pie in the face.

This minister needs to be aware–this government needs to continue to make substantial investments in child care like the NDP government did j ust to keep up with the growing demand as our population continues to grow at a record amount. And so far, Madam Speaker, they're falling flat. Funding only home-based child care, which appears to be the only thing in the minister's plan, will eliminate the wait-list at a mere four kids at a time and will result in higher fees for families. Will the minister admit that his lack of a plan follows the Premier's (Mr.

Pallister) record of making cuts to child care and cheerleading the Harper government– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Fielding: It gives great pleasure to come up a third time to talk about our plan. We think our plan is the most realistic plan for child care in the province. You have 17 years where the NDP–

1400 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding: If their plan was so good, how come there's over 12,000 people on the waiting list? That's the question I'd like to ask the member. We've got a realistic plan for child care we think will make a diff erence. We think partnerships with the school divisions, we think having more ECEs part of the equation makes a lot of a difference and more child care.

We're there to provide a realistic plan, not pie -in-the-sky announcements with–what you heard from the NDP the last number of years without practical solutions. We're about practical solutions. Crime Prevention Initiatives Community Involvement Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, the topic of crime and safety is a hot one in Burrows. Many have expressed to me that we need a community-oriented approach in dealing with crime and ensuring that residents are feeling safe. If done right, we can all benefit from this. It encourages community involvement. It assists in police stations and court systems.

It can even prevent victimization. What is this government going to do to ensure that our communities can be part of the solution for improving safety in our province? Thank you. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, I thank the member for Burrows for the question. She is correct; a lot of the solutions that happen when it comes to crime and when it comes to making our neighbourhoods safer happen at the ground level.

I can cite, for example, the Citizens on Patrol Program, a program that's existed in Manitoba for many years, a successful program that engages citizens, that have citizens that are involved to ensure that they are not only on the streets of their communities but they are the eyes and the ears of their communities. So I have many different ways that communities can have citizens involved. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lamoureux: The minister is correct; that is one way.

But another form of community involvement, and a suggestion that was often brought up dur - ing the election in Burrows, is the idea of community-based police stations. If the goal is to have less crime, safer residents and community involvement, this government needs t o consider supporting these community police stations. My question is simple: Is this government ready to explore a new and effective model for community- based policing stations? Thank you. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Madam Speaker, I believe that the government and the Minister of Justice (Mrs.

Stefanson) is very committed to working with our various municipal police forces here in the city of Winnipeg and across Manitoba. Obviously, we take input from the police in terms of how they believe the strategies fo r policing are best succeeded and best carried out. They obviously have their own ideas in terms of how things should be done, in terms of deployment of their resources. And, certainly, we know that the outgoing police of chief has done a great job in some of that, and we commend him for his work. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Lamoureux: If safety is a priority here in Manitoba, how come there hasn't been any action on it taken yet? In the province of Manitoba, there are 37 active youth justice committees, not one of them being inside the city of Winnipeg. During Estimates, the Minister of Justice confirmed this but was quick to remind me that Winnipeg does have diversion programs. I recognize this, but, M adam Speaker, I would argue that we need youth justice committees in the city of Winnipeg because they permit community involvement.

Can this government explain to me how they feel that Winnipeg diversion programs engage adequately with the community in dealing with young offenders? Thank you. Mr. Goertzen: Well, I'm a little concerned that the member for Burrows begins her question by saying

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1401 that there's been no action taken to make communities safer. I would say to her that our police officers, the men and women who are involved in making our communities safer every day, are there each and every day; each and every day they leave their homes and they go to try to make our communities safer. Each and every day, they know that they might be putting their lives on the line. If the member opposite truly believes that those men and women aren't doing something to make our communities safer, I would say she's wrong. We stand with our police.

Protecting Children Act Stakeholder Collaboration Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Fort Richmond): Madam Speaker, today members of our government were joined by Sheldon Kennedy, an advocate and former hockey player, to speak about the importance of the protecting children act. This bill will help government and service providers collaborate and will get better results for at- risk and vulnerable children and families. * (14:20) Could the Minister of Families please inform the House of some of the new measures in the protecting children act that will help our government protect vulnerable children in our province? Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Families ): Well, thank you, Madam Speaker, for the question, and thank you for the hard-working member for the great question that's there. It allows me to have the opportunity to talk about the protecting children act, which we think is critical. It's critical that you allow information to be shared with service providers, people in law enforcement agencies and government. It's critical that you're able to react better, you're able to provide early intervention and prevention. We are very pleased that our Premier (Mr. Pallister) made this a priority in the first 100 days of office.

I was glad that the Premier was able to join us at Snowflake with 50 other stakeholder groups to talk about the initiative as well with Sheldon Kennedy. We know how important this is and that's why this has become a major priority for this government within the first 100 days. Indigenous Committee of Cabinet Establishment Inquiry Mr.

Kevin Chief (Point Douglas): According to the mandate letter of the Minister of Indigenous Relations she is responsible to consult with indigenous communities, and it says to form teams with her Cabinet colleagues to ensure partnerships with First Nations to create jobs and economic prosperity, economic opportunities. We also have a Prime Minister who has said, and I quote : Yes, we will be the partner that Manitoba needs when it comes to working with our First Nation communities. There is incredible potential with our indigenous communities across Manitoba.

So I ask the minister: Can she tell us if the indigenous commit tee of Cabinet has been established with the teams that she's formed with her Cabinet colleagues? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations): I thank the member opposite for the question. We have, indeed. I'm very proud of the number of meetings I have had with indigenous councils as well as groups within the indigenous communities, community leaders. The list is actually very extensive. I'm also proud that I have had meetings to date with two federal ministers –and the one being Indigenous Affairs.

I've met with her twice, and the agreement for partnerships going forward is very strong and we look forward to working on that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. First Nations Communities Community Benefits Agreements Mr. Kevin Chief (Point Douglas): As part of reconciliation, the TRC has called the governments and the private sector to ensure that indigenous peoples have access to training and employment. An example of this, of course, is the east -side road.

Thirteen isolated First Nations signed multimillion-dollar agreements, community benefits agreements, and have trained up to 1,000 First Nations people. We have asked repeatedly, and we're going to ask again today: Has the government taken the time to contact these First Nations directly to let them

1402 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 know that these agreements will continue to be honoured? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations ): I thank you, again, for t hat question. I'm very happy to be meeting with these people that he speaks of on Monday. We have a very lengthy agenda and the discussions have been held and there's going to be a lot more. These issues are not decided in a day or a week, but we will continue to meet with them and work on their behalf as long as it takes. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Chief: MKO Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson recently outlined a 10- point plan to support economic development in Northern Manitoba. We know the Business Council of Manitoba, the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, to name a few, all agree that Aboriginal engagement is a key to growing Manitoba's economy. Will the minister stand with the calls to action by the grand chief, by the TRC, by Manitoba's business community, and honour the agreements with the 13 isolated First Nation communities that have been signed, Madam Speaker? Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): And I do appreciate the question from the member. I can assure the member that we have various departments in consultation with indigenous communities around our province. We've been spending some time in northern Manitoba in discussion with them. I'm actually going to be meeting with Chief Wilson tomorrow and I'm looking forward to that discussion, and we will, at that point in time, be r eviewing her –the economic plan that they've put forward.

And I think it does dovetail quite nicely with our 10-point economic plan that we will be fulfilling here over the course of the next few months and the next couple of years. So we look forward t o continued discussions with the Aboriginal community. Workplace Illness and Injury Prevention Health and Safety Indicators Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): An injury to one worker is an injury to all. Manitoba Five -Year Plan for Workplace Injury and Illnes s Prevention was a strategy released in 2013 to strengthen protections for workers in the province.

Can the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade please inform the House of what progress has been made on the development of leading indicators for measuring the state of safety and health in Manitoba? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I do appreciate that particular question from the member. I will inform the member that we met with the Manitoba Employers Council today over lunch. We talked about a lot of different issues. We talked about economic growth for communities and northern communities.

We also talked extensively about Workers Compensation Board, and we talked about workplace health and safety regulations. Certainly, there was some current concerns brought forward from them. We will continue to consult with Manitob ans and make positive changes in that regard. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: The minister in his answer seemed to be somewhat unaware that perhaps this is a legislated responsibility of the Chief Prevention Officer.

Will the minister assure Manitobans that such indicators of safety and health outcomes will be incorporated as key objectives in any value -for- money audits contemplated by the government? Mr. Cullen: Clearly, this government takes safety of employees very, very strict, very well to heart, and we certainly will be looking at the legislation, any changes that maybe we –may need to be made. We will certainly also make sure that positions are filled in terms of looking after and address ing public safety.

Certainly, the member may know that we're also undertaking the review of the Workers Compensation Board, and certainly the public will have input into recommendations around the Workers Compensation Board. We look forward to having more discussions with both employers,

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1403 employees and certainly people from the labour side as well. So, Madam Speaker, after 17 years there is still more work to do in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Bell's Purchase of MTS Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of the petition is as follows: The Manitoba telephone system is currently a fourth cellular carrier used by Manitobans along with the big national three carriers: Telus, Rogers and Bell.

In Toronto, with only the big three national companies controlling the market, the average five-gigabyte unlimited monthly cellular package is $117 as compared to Winnipeg where MTS charges $66 for the same package. Losing MTS will mean less competition and will result in higher costs for all cellphone packages in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government do all that is possible to prevent the Bell takeover of MTS and preserve a more competitive cellphone market so that cellular bills for Manitobans do not increase unnecessarily.

And this petition is signed by many fine Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Any further petitions? Legislative Building–Gender Neutral Washroom Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): Madam Speaker, I w ish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The reasons for this petition are:

(1) The Legislative Building is a public building where everyone should feel welcome and feel comfortable.

(2) Washrooms in the Manitoba legislative a nd other government buildings are labelled as men and women, which do not fit the gender identities of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to designate one washroom in the Legisl ative Building and all other government of Manitoba buildings as a gender neutral washroom. Miigwech, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS (Continued) House Business Mr.

Jim Maloway (Official Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, on House business, I wish to table copies of the opposition list of government ministers to be called Monday for concurrence. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): On House business, I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts will be meeting on Monday, June 27th at 9 a.m. for the purpose of electing a new Chairperson and a new Vice-Chairperson.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts wil l be meeting on Monday, June 27th at 9 a.m. for the purpose of electing a new Chairperson and Vice - Chairperson. Mr. Goertzen: On House business, Madam Speaker, could you please canvass the House to see if there is leave to waive the sessional order provision requiring a break between 12 noon and 1 p.m. tomorrow in the sections of Committee of Supply, with the intention that the sections will continue to sit without this break until the 100 hours of Estimate time has expired?

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to waive the sessional order provision requiring a break between 12 noon and 1 p.m. tomorrow in the sections of the Committee of Supply, with the intention that the

1404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 sections will continue to sit without this break until the 100 hours of Estimate time has expired? [Agreed] * * * Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, could the House please resolve into Committee of Supply? Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) (Continued) SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT * (14:40) The Acting Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Sustainable Development. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sustainable Development): Yes, I do. On behalf of the Department of Sustainable Development I would like to thank you for joining me and our staff here today. It's an honour and pleasure to be here as the new Minister of Sustainable Development. I can assure you that this is not a responsibility I take lightly. Our natural resources are precious, and I am honoured that the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) of Manitoba tasked and trusted me with Manitoba's most important assets. As I often say, there is no second chance in this department. The decisions we make today will impact our future generations. Our government will make balanced decisions that protect our environment and ensure sustainability of natural resources while still allowing for sound economic opportunity. Growing up, I was fortunate to spend summers at the lake, and I have many fond memories of my family at the family cottage.

And, although the word environment was not as widely used then, my dad instilled in us the importance of protecting our environment. He taught my brother and I the wonders of nature and the importance of respecting our forests and protecting our wildlife. Got a little bit off track, so I'll just get back to the reason we are all here today. I'd like to introduce my staff, but they're all–[interjec tion] Okay, later? Okay. So, if I would, I'd just like to take a few moments to acknowledge the hard work demonstrated each and every day by the staff of the Department of Sustainable Development.

Since my appointment on May 3rd, I've had the opportunity to meet and listen with ma ny staff members ranging from assistant deputy ministers to front-line workers. And, regardless of their capacity, they all display such a sincere commitment to this ministry. As a new minister, I have done a lot of listening over the past six weeks, and I can truly say I am impressed by their eagerness, 'enthusiastm' – enthusiasm and patience displayed by staff during these briefings and presentations.

We are all like- minded people working together for a better Manitoba and a commitment to improve, protect , preserve our forestry, wildlife, fish and natural resources. My sincere thanks to all of you. Sustainable Development, the new name of the department, reflects my government's commitment to meeting the needs of Manitobans today while protecting the e nvironment for future generations. This is inherent in the work that all we do. We must work together to ensure that our environment is safe, our economy is strong and our people are healthy – today and into the future.

My department will work in partnership with all Manitobans, indigenous peoples, businesses, non- profits, municipalities and other stakeholders to reach our shared goal of protecting the environment while promoting sustainable economic development. Manitoba Sustainable Development is respon- sible for managing and protecting the environment as well as ensuring the rich biodiversity of our natural resources. We are charged with protecting Manitoba's water, wildlife, fish and forests. And this is a job that we all take seriously.

Allow me to outline and briefly describe for you all today some of the department's targeted activities. The department will implement a province -wide program based on the Alternative Land Use Services model, the ALUS model. This program will help

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1405 reduce flooding and improve water quality and nutrient management. The ALUS program will be implemented in partnership with the Department of Agriculture, municipalities and conservation districts. Other key stakeholders include the federal government, landowners and non- government organizations. The department is committed to implementing watershed-based planning for drainage and water resources. Our goal is a no- net-loss of water retention capacity in Manitoba watersheds.

Effective water management is essential to reduci ng the costly impact of flooding, holding back water that can be used in droughts, and removing excess nutrients that cause harmful algae in our waters. The department will help develop compre - hensive harvest co -management strategies in consultation with First Nations, Metis and licensed 'huntsters' and anglers to ensure that long- term sustainability of our wildlife populations. We will ensure the local communities have a greater voice around harvesting. The co- management strategy will help ensure the lon g-term sustainability of our wildlife populations.

And the department will prevent unsustainable and unsafe hunting practices, such as night hunting, to keep Manitobans safe. My government is committed to safe hunting practices, collaborative relationshi ps and sustainable harvest limits. We will seek to improve safe hunting practices in Manitoba through an enhanced hunter education program, and resources will be developed in partnership with indigenous organizations, hunting associations, municipalities and other stakeholders. Effective, innovative big game surveys are needed to provide accurate and transparent population data to wildlife managers –yes.

My government will increase scientific, citizen -based and traditional knowledge of Manitoba's wildlife. This knowledge will be used to guide decision making to better manage wildlife in the province. In the past, Manitoba's big game populations have been subject to increased hunting pressures. Other Canadian provinces are facing similar challenges regarding the sustainability of big game populations. The department will implement more effective big game surveys to provide access to the population data, and this will support strategies to ensure the sustainability of big game populations.

It's a priority of my government to support and promote fishing in Manitoba. As such, the department is developing a credible strategy to secure certification of Manitoba's commercial fisheries. This will support a sustainable fishing industry for years to come. Fishing supports local economies and brings tourists to our province. We are committed to working in partnership with fishers to ensure that harvests are sustainable. We will provide the best possible income for fishers today while sustaining fish populations for fut ure generations.

And the department will reconcile the needs of industry in rural and northern communities while continuing to enhance the network of protected areas in Manitoba. Our province has a rich, natural heritage that must be maintained for future generations. Protected areas play an important role in preserving the province's natural ecosystems and biodiversity in sustaining a healthy economy. The balance between development and protection will be based on informed decision making.

Manitoba's r esource industries sustain rural and northern communities and provide economic development opportunities for remote indigenous communities. And the department will work to continue with –will continue to work with all stakeholders to ensure that sustainable development is an important consideration in the parks and protected areas planning process. The department will conduct the required consultations for future of land under park reserve status. There are currently four park reserves in Manitoba and the public consultation process is under way.

Three of these reserves are on islands within Lake Winnipegosis, and were nominated by local First Nation communities. These are Goose Island, Grand Island and Pemmican Island Reserves; public consultation for these sites are complete and discussions with indigenous communities are ongoing. The fourth park reserve is Amisk Park Reserve, the consultation is linked to –I hope I get this right – Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation land and resource management planning process. And once this process is complete, the department will conclude its own public consultation.

The department is committed to an open and transparent consultation process on the future of land under park reserve status. And our department will implement a two -year moratorium on all lease and service fee increases for cottages in provincial parks. We will engage

1406 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 cottagers and other stakeholders in consultations to develop a more equitable fee structure for the future. My government will work with the federal government and other jurisdictions to develop a made-in-Manitoba climate action plan. The plan will include carbon pricing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, keep investment capital in Manitoba and stimulate innovation and clean energy.

This will create new jobs and businesses in Manitoba and help deliver on our commitment to be the most improved province in job creation, as well as most improved in partnerships with businesses and communities. As part of the made-in-Manitoba climate action plan, we will ad opt land use and conservation measures to sequester carbon. My government will look at opportunities to reduce the emissions from commercial buildings through building codes. This and other measures will be used to put government on a path to carbon neutrality.

The department will support fuel -saving technology and other measures to reduce emissions within the transportation sector. Our climate action plan will include real targets; these targets will support national efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 30 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030, and we will consult with Manitobans in an open and transparent manner. I've received a mandate letter from our Premier (Mr. Pallister) and based on that letter we will continue to work with the department to ensure that Manitobans are best protected with regard to parks, and ensure that the environment is also protected.

We've introduced a zebra mussel plan that's almost $700,000 in our budget this year; an increase of, I believe, $530,000 from last year. Much more to talk about but unfortunately my time is running out. So I'd just like to say thank you to everybody and I look forward to this process. The Acting Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official op position critic have any opening comments? Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Yes. I was waiting for that part. Not really, Madam Chair, we can jump right into it. The Acting Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): We thank the critic.

Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly we shall now defer consideration of line item 12.1.(

a) contained in resolution 12.1. At this time we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. * (14:50) Mrs. Cox : I'd like to introduce the staff in my department.

First of all, to my left is Grant Doak, deputy minister; Bruce Gray, ADM of Water Stewardship and Biodiversity; Bruce Bremner, ADM of Parks and Regional Services; Matt Wiebe, I'm sure you've heard that name before, different Matt Wiebe, ADM of Finance and Crown Lands; Neil Cunningham, director of Climate Change and Air Quality; Nicole Armstrong, director of Water, Science and Management; and Tracey Braun, director of Environmental Approvals. Thank you.

The Acting Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard ): Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of this department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mr. Altemeyer: Global would work just fine. The Acting Chairperson ( Sara Guillemard ): Is that agreed? [Agreed] Thank you. It is agreed, then, that questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner with all resolutions to be passed once questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I want to say official greetings and hello to the minister.

We'll get to do this dance a few times, I'm sure, in the months ahead, and I have a degree of familiarity with the work that the department has been undertaking. It's really nice to see the staff here again, and I thank all of you for your work together on behalf of the planet and the people who live in this particular part of it, in the days ahead. Just to start off with some fairly basic administrative questions. Could the minister please

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1407 provide the committee with her definition of what a front-line worker is in the–in her department? Mrs. Cox: I'd like to thank you so much for your comments too. I look forward to having good discussions with you today, and I know that you've been on this part of the chair process before– An Honourable Member: A few hours. Mrs. Cox : Yes, exactly.

So, anyway, yes, with regard to your question, I think that front-line worker is by definition, is anybody who's hands -on and directly, you know, works with the public, and in our department, we have so many of them, as you know. And we have conservation offi cers who are working, you know, every day to protect our wildlife and also to protect Manitobans from hunters and other individuals out there in the forest. We have a parks maintenance staff who do very important work in our parks, and I think those people deserve a lot of credit for what they do.

Sometimes we underestimate the jobs that they do, but they–very important. Wildfire crew, and I know that they just did an amazing job recently with regard to the fires that we had, and can't thank them enough f or what they did, most certainly. I know that our son was out a few weeks ago and came across a group of about 10 of them, and they were camped out on the lake and just making sure that any wildfires or hotspots were taken care of.

And we actually had the opportunity to go last–on Saturday out to that area and take a look at it, walked out there with our son, and just amazing to see what they do and what they've done to protect our province. I mean, they cut down so many trees, and I was really, I guess, it sort of was a very enlightening experience to know that when a fire burns, it actually burns through the centre of a tree, so you could see the whole tree was entirely hollowed out, and they had cut it down. And, of course, the regrowth was already starti ng. So it was, yes, it was very enlightening.

And just can't say enough for all the work that we did. I know that we did send letters out to, I think, most, or a lot of the wildfire crews, and thank you so much for what they did.

Of course, we also have so many, I guess, people that work front-line services besides the conservation officers: the wildfires, the park maintenance–I mean, we have people who work to protect our water system; and each and every day make sure that there's licences in place; an d, of course, check our, you know, our Brady landfill, for example, to which– ensure that they're following the rules there; ensure that any of the other emitters follow the rules and any of the other companies that maybe, you know, within environmental reg ulations and licences and things like that.

So all of those I would consider to be front -line people, people that do important work–not that I'm saying that others don't do important work, but, yes, you know, anybody who works directly and protects our province, works hard for our province. And we'll continue to do that within this great portfolio that I have. So thank you for that question. Mr. Altemeyer: Thank the minister for that. I note the department is down 12 FTEs. Could I get a list of just the job descriptions maybe of those 12 positions that have disappeared in this year's budget?

And, if that's not all compiled right now, the minister can take it under advisement and just provide it later. That would be fine by me. Mrs. Cox: We'll attempt to get it for you right now. I'm pleased to say that our government has been very responsible in reviewing the budgets of all the departments, and Sustainable Development is no different. As I move forward in my time as the minister, I look forward to working with the staff and management of the department on budgeting.

And looking at the budget for 2016, as I indicated the other day, the zebra mussels program and AIS prevention program has been expanded. And given the great threat of zebra mussels and invasive species to our waters, the budget has identified specific funding increases of $530, so I think it's up to $680,000, our budget, now, for zebra mussels and AIS. The department also increased salary budgets by just under $1.5 billion to account for general salary increases which relate to the new collective agreement that was signed. And this accounts for the increases to civil servant salaries in 2016 and '17.

And the department also increased salary lines by a total of $926,000 to account for normal salary adjustments which occur mainly based on staff moving through different pay grades. These salary increases on the budget require the department to review other areas to look f or opportunities to save funds. It's important to our

1408 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 government to manage expenditures and correct the course. Our government is an important player in reviewing and finding ways to save dollars. Therefore, the department found $252,000 in savings through operating reductions, which were found by all divisions, reviewing spending and looking for operating efficiencies. * (15:00) In addition, the department eliminated the equivalent of 12 full -time positions with the department following a review of depa rtmental priorities and functions.

Front -line services that Manitobans rely on have not been affected, and no layoffs of personnel occurred. This will result in a savings of $881,000. And, finally, due to the department's continued efforts to income–to improve capital infrastructure in parks, campgrounds and in the fire program, amortization on interest budgets have increased, in the budget for 2016, by $1.6 million. Mr. Altemeyer: So the 12 positions that have disappeared–the minister mentioned there were no layoffs. So I assume these were vacancies that have now been eliminated from the books? Mrs.

Cox : When looking at the budget for this department, I have definitely seen that decis ions were made in the past number of years to significantly reduce the staffing and operating budgets. For example, over the past four years, approximately 100 positions called full -time employment–or, full-time equivalents, or FTEs, were eliminated from the department because of the reductions to the department's budget allotment. The department's overall budget was reduced by over $17 million, or 11 per cent, over the past four years.

And, also, the department had to absorb increased amortization and interest costs which resulted from capital projects that got completed, and then amortization and interest payments began. Because of the department's aggressive capital plan from years past, the income was that amortization and interest charges increased by millions of dollars over the past four years. To add to the challenge of this increased cost, the department did not receive new funding for this cost, but had to cut salary and operating budgets to pay for amortization and interest.

The increased amortization and interest increases the department has accommodated over the past four years has amounted to $3.3 million, which is a pressure in addition to the $17-million budget reduction. The budget has had to absorb these financial and budgetary pressures by holding positions vacant and reducing operating expenses. The vacancy rate as of March 31, 2016, was just over 12 per cent and, typically, the department maintains a vacancy rate of about 15 per cent to meet its budget.

This also adds additional pressure onto the department to carry out its mandate, and the budget reductions over the past four years have added to that pressure. I'm glad to say that our new government has made many great strides and improvements. This can be seen in the department's budget. Our Premier (Mr. Pallister) continues to discuss the importance of transparency and getting budgets back on track without risking front -line services.

With this balanced and thoughtful approach in mind, the department has seen an overall increase in its budget over last year, a sign that this government is committed to sustainable development. For example, again, increases in the zebra mussel and AIS prevention program have led to a new, increased budget of just under $700,000–or, $680,000. At the same time, we are working to be more responsible and manage future years by creating a more sensible, thoughtful approach to capital planning which will, in time, allow us to have more control over amortization and interest increases. Mr.

Altemeyer: Yes, that's all well and fine, but I was wondering–the 12 positions that have been removed from the budget this year according to page 10–and this is overall, you know, across the whole department–could I please, on behalf of our committee here, receive just th e titles of the job descriptions that were eliminated? Mrs. Cox: These vacancies are 12 full-time FTEs, or full-time employees. Through efficiencies, we've found the ability to leave these positions vacant.

They are not any front -line service positions, b y any means, but they are just positions that we've found that no longer necessary, just based on the fact that we are running a more efficient department. The Acting Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): The honourable member for Wolseley. Mr. Altemeyer: Oh, I'll wait 'til she's ready. Mrs. Cox: Just to be corrected that these vacant positions may have been front line but they've been

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1409 reassigned to other people. So there are no cuts in front-line services to anybody. They've been accommodated within other employee positions. Mr. Altemeyer: A vacancy is a normal thing in all departments, of course, as people come and go and shift to different roles. The 12 per cent vacancy mark is good to know. I appreciate that ballpark figure. But vacancies and the reduction in the number of FTEs are two different things. And I appreciate the minister has, you know, been in the job a whopping two months, and there's lots of details.

I've long held the view that the day that you're in this building and you don't learn anything is the day you should consider resigning because you're just not paying attention. I try and learn a whole bunch of stuff every day. But vacancies, like, vacant positions, are still listed as FTE positions within a government's department. So my previous question, just looking, again, at page 10, according to the minister's own document, there's 1,124 FTEs in her department.

That would include vacancies, the vacancy rate being 12 per cent; 12 per cent of that number means that many positions are not currently filled by staff. But to say that the reduction in 12 positions have been reassigned still doesn't remove the fact that the department is now left with 12 fewer positions to work with, and I'm still looking for a description of which jobs were removed f rom the department's portfolio by the government's budget. * (15:10) Mrs. Cox: Okay, I did–my staff were able to get that information for you.

Two political staff within the minister's office, two resource technicians, one environmental officer, one trainer, three adminis - trative positions, one director and two policy analysts. Mr. Altemeyer: That's great. Thank you very much. I appreciate the detail. And speaking of the ever -popular political staff, I used to be one myself, as a few of us, perhaps, around the table at various points in time. Would the minister be so kind to just give us the names and the positions of the order -in-council, the political staff that are attached to her department in some way. Mrs.

Cox : Yes, I have Bruce Verry, who's m y special assistant, and I also have Raquel Dancho, who's my executive assistant, and that's a decrease from previous ministers. Mr. Altemeyer: Thank you very much for that. I seem to recall previous ministers had SAs and EAs as well. Can the minister clarify what the reduction is that she's referring to? Mrs. Cox : Just from reading previous Estimates reports, I did note that other ministers had special advisers as well, so. Mr.

Altemeyer: Does the minister have anyone from what our government used to re fer to as Cabinet communications, the priorities and planning committee or policy branch assigned to her department? Mrs. Cox: We do have one individual who's shared with, I believe, three other ministers in Cabinet communications and stakeholder relations. Mr. Altemeyer: Could we have the name of that person, please? Mrs. Cox: Yes, his name is Kalen Qually. Mr. Altemeyer: And what is the salary or salary range of the SA and the EA and the other person in Cabinet communications attached to the minister? Mrs.

Cox : Bruce Verry, he's –his classification is special assistant, and his salary would be on the OIC. And same with Raquel Dancho, she's the–EXA is her level, and also would be on the order-in-council. Mr. Altemeyer: Now, if I'm reading page 20 of the department Estimates book correctly, the one FTE under executive support, is that the deputy minister under managerial? Mrs. Cox: Yes, you're correct. Mr. Altemeyer: So, just to make sure I've got it right, then, on the previous page of 18, the minister's salary went up by $14,000. The poor, hard- working deputy minister's salary went down by 3–is that right? Mrs.

Cox : Well, I can say that you shocked our deputy minister here. Anyway– An Honourable Member: You want to hang on to him. Mrs. Cox : I do like him, thank you. Anyways, page 18, with regard to the minister's salary, the minister's salary is established by regulation made by the Manitoba Commissioner for MLA Pay, Allowances and Retirement Benefits, and, you know, we are doing more work as ministers. We've reduced the size of Cabinet, which is part of our government's commitment to Manitobans and we're keeping our

1410 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 promises of finding efficiencies as I suppose we did within the assistant deputy minister's salary to reduce our debt and move forward toward balanced budgets and, you know, of course, that decrease in the size of Cabinet has been responsible for a $4- million savings to the people of Manitoba. Mr. Altemeyer: What is the extra work that the minister is taking on compared to what this department looked like last year? What's been added to the department's mandate? Mrs. Cox: Thank you for that question.

You know, I was proud to be offered the opportunity to represent Sustainable Development by our Premier (Mr. Pallister) back on May the 2nd, and as part of that the Premier did present me with the mandate letter and an obligation to fulfill those mandate initiativ es, and as part of that, I guess, as Minister of Sustainable Development, I do play a key role in delivering on these most important issues and in particular most improved province commitment.

So we do–have said that we will be the most improved province in partnerships, initiatives with business and communities, most improved province in job creation performance, and my mandate from the Premier of Manitoba, as Minister of Sustainable Development, I am to be the lead in fulfilling the following platform c ommitments: implement a province-wide program based on the alternative land-use services ALUS model, to help reduce flooding and improve water quality and nutrient management in partnership with my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture (Mr.

Eichler), as w ell as stakeholders, including landowners, NGOs, federal and municipal governments; implement watershed - based planning for drainage and water resource management with the goal of no net loss of water retention capacity in watersheds; develop comprehensive harvest co-management strategies in consultation with First Nations, Metis, and licensed hunters and anglers to give local communities a greater voice and ensure long -term sustainability of our wildlife populations, and curtail unsustainable and unsafe hunting practices such as night hunting to keep all Manitobans safe; implement effective and innovative big-game surveys to improve and increase the transparency of population data for managers; develop and implement a credible strategy to secure certification of Manitoba's commercial fisheries; develop a framework to reconcile the needs of industry in rural and northern communities while continuing to enhance the network of protected areas in Manitoba's natural regions; act on the required consultation for the future of land under park reserve status; institute a two -year moratorium on all lease and service fees for cottages found within provincial parks; and work with the federal government and other jurisdictions and stakeholders as we develop a made-in-Manitoba climate action plan containing the following elements: carbon pricing that fosters emissions reduction, keeps investment capital here and stimulates new innovation in clean energy, businesses and jobs; land -use and conservation measures that sequester carbon and foster adaptation to climate change; reduce emissions from commercial buildings through building codes and other measures, putting government operations and infrastructure on a path to carbon neutrality; and encourage the adoption of fuel -saving technologies and measures within the transportation sector. * (15:20) I think that the mandate letter is something new that I don't think the former government provided to their ministers, so we do have a very aggressive plan and a huge responsibility to fulfill and ensure that we do get this done.

So, thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: Allow me to clarify my question. The minister had mentioned that part of the justification for the 36 per cent increase in the ministerial salaries is that now that there are a smaller number of ministers, that the ministers are doing more work, I believe, was her phrase for it. I'm just, again, looking at page 10 of her Estimates book. Were any of the following sections of her department not in her department previously: Finance and Crown Lands, Parks and Regional Services, Environmental Stewardship, Water Stewardship and Biodive rsity?

Were all of those in the previously named Conservation and Water Stewardship Department last year? Mrs. Cox: Well, as I said, we've been given a very aggressive plan. You know, I think we're six weeks, or seven weeks, as a minister, and, you know, based on, you know, the direction that we got from the Premier, you know, we've got a lot of work to do in a very short period of time. I know that working to address climate change, that's going to be a huge issue, you know, working to ensure, you know, surface water management, ALUS, all of those things.

I think that it's a huge responsibility, and we have a big job to do. We've got a lot of consulting to do. And I know that there's

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1411 been jeers from the other side when I mention the word consulting and, you know, talking to other individuals, but I think that's important to do, you know, and to ensure that we get it right. And we do want to get it right. We want to talk to Manitobans and talk to them about all of these policies and initiatives that we'r e developing. I know that, in the past, the former government in certain instances didn't consult with Manitobans.

And, you know, and as a result, we saw–or as a result, you know, Manitobans, you know, said quite clearly that they wanted to be heard and they wanted to have the opportunity to be part of that decision-making process. So I think that given all of the mandate items here in my letter, it's a huge job. It is a huge job. And we will continue to discuss and consult and talk to Manitobans. As I sai d, I think that's important. We want to ensure that Manitobans are listened in all the decisions that we make.

And I know that there have been unfortunate situations, in some cases, where there was no consultation and there was, you know, a huge change, obviously, in the government before us as a result of not listening to Manitobans. So, you know, we want to make sure that we get it right, that we listen and we consult and we ensure that Manitoba's voices are heard. Mr. Altemeyer: I guess we don't need t o belabour that point anymore.

It's quite clear that the –while the type of work within the realm of protecting the environment has certainly been changed by this government, and I as critic certainly have some very big concerns about the Premier's (Mr. Pal lister) new direction from what we've seen, there isn't any additional portion of the work of government that has been added to this particular department's mandate or to this minister's mandate. And, despite that, the salaries go up for some and go down f or others.

But just coming back to the vacancy question, I appreciate the 12 per cent number, but since we are dealing with fractions of an FTE when you add up the entire department, could the minister please tell us how many FTEs are currently vacant? No t the percentage but the number of positions in her department right now. Thank you. Mrs. Cox : Well, I know that in past years, they'd been huge budget reductions, and approximately 100 positions which are called full -time equivalents or FTEs, were elimin ated from the department previously, from the previous government. And that had a huge impact on front-line services.

I know that, I don't know, maybe about five years ago, I was at my cousin's home for Christmas dinner and sitting around the Christmas ta ble and talking to an individual who worked for –or for the Department of Natural Resources. And, unfor - tunately, he, you know, was conservation officer, but he wasn't able to actually have full -time employment.

And I was quite shocked by this and quite astounded that –when I know that the huge amount of work that they have to do in protecting our environment, our wildlife, our forests, that the government of the day, former government, wouldn't ensure that there were more conservation officers out there prot ecting our environment and protecting Manitobans. So, you know, I know that 100 positions had a huge impact, and front -line positions. And our government is finding efficiencies and finding ways to ensure that we can keep Manitobans employed and keep more Manitobans employed within our department.

You know, we're saving money by reducing in other areas, finding efficiencies. I don't know, maybe photocopying, travel, paper, you know, other areas like that. I'm not quite sure all of the methods that we found efficiencies. But we're doing it so that it will not affect front -line services and it won't affect our staff's ability to do the work and do it in a safe manner, to ensure that they're protected and that they have all of the resources available to them to do the work. I know each and every year it gets more difficult for them.

Individuals have the ability to get deeper and deeper into the forest with quads and other vehicles, and it becomes more challenging for our staff to do their jobs. So, you know, we want to make sure that we are able to have enough staff to ensure that they can, you know, protect the environment, protect the people of Manitoba and ensure that they are doing it in a manner which keeps them safe. So, you know, we have found efficiencies and we are not–haven't eliminated 100 positions or reduced the government–or the budget by $17 million like previous governments.

So, you know, I think that we're doing a good job with the increase of 2.5 per cent to the budget for Sustainable Development. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, doing some very quick math on my own, looks like 12 per cent times 1,124 FTEs comes out to about 135 vacant positions in the

1412 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 department right now. Can the minister indicate how many of those are currently posted for rehiring? Mrs. Cox: Well, I know that within our department, you know, our staff has done a great job. And, obviously, it's a department that our government is very concerned with and ensuring that we get it right.

As I said before, with this department, there's no second chance. * (15:30) If we let something get away with that, you know, with us –without monitoring, you know, our water supply, monitoring things like zebra mussels, you know, we want to prevent the increase or the further movement of those species into our waters. So, you know, we found extra money for zebra mussels–as I said, I think we're up to $680,000 this year in our budget, and five decontamination units. We now have the ability to actually enforce, you know, the vehicles that are stopped at certain access centre–or, access locations.

So we're doing our job. We're working, you know, to ensure that Manitobans are protected. We've increased our salary budgets by under $1.5 million to account for general salary increases which relate to the new collective agreement that was signed, I believe, last year some time by the previous government. And this accounts for the increases to civil servant salaries that you see reflected in the book for 2016 and '17. And we've also increased salary lines by a total of $926,000 to account for normal salary adjustments, which occur based on staff moving up from the pay grades.

So, you know, we've done a lot within the department within a short time, and I think that Manitobans appreciate the job that we're doing to ensure that our natural resources in our environment is protected and will remain sustainable well into the future. Mr. Altemeyer: I can appreciate that providing the details on where 135 vacancies might be –across a department of over 1,000 people can be a bit of a challenge.

It is important information, though, for the public to see where, amongst all of these different positions, there are actual staff working, and where there is a vacancy and which jobs are being posted for active rehiring, and which ones are being allowed to lapse. I would be open to the minister's suggestions of how she may want to provide that information. Does she want to just take it under advisement and provide it at a later date? That would be fine. Or, whatever may work best for her, and her staff. Mrs. Cox : I thank the member opposite for that question.

All of the job opportunities within our department are publicly posted, and would be available on the Government of Manitoba website. And I know that many people who actually access that site for good government jobs. So they are all available there. You know, we have seen no decreases in front - line services. Those vacancies that you talk about are nothing new within department and, you know, we're doing so many good things within our depart ment. We've ensured that we've increased funding 2.5 per cent. We're going to address climate change.

And I know that the member opposite was part of those discussions, and did travel to Paris recently and had the opportunity to participate in those discussions. And so, you know, we're working hard to ensure that we keep Manitoba safe; we keep our environment safe; and we keep forests, fisheries, hunting–all of those sustainable. So that's our plan to do and we will do that. From talking to individuals and people within the department, they tell us that within wildfires, things like that, you know, they work hard and they appreciate the–I guess, they appreciate how we feel about the jobs that they do.

And, like I said, from talking to those –my son talking to those fire crews recently, they were so eager to be there and so eager to ensure that they protected our forests and ensured that they were able to put the wildfires out. And I can say it was really awe inspiring to see that the cottage, just maybe located here, and I can actually say, 15 feet away, large trees were burned and brown. And they protected that cottage.

So I think that, in light of all of that, our staff are doing an amazing job, and I'd like to say thank you to each and every one of them for the great work that they do in all of the departments. I know that it's not an easy department, and it's one that's –they do because they really care about Manitoba. So thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: How many vacancies are ther e currently in the Parks and Regional Services

section of the department? Mrs. Cox: Thank you for that.

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1413 Well, again, you know, I'd just like to touch on the great job that that area of our department does each and every day, Parks and Regional Services.

I know I had the opportunity to visit with many members from the different regions just a few weeks ago and just to listen to them and just to listen to their enthusiasm when they're talking about what they do out there and each and every day –and that the hard work and the protective services that they give to the people of Manitoba, but also ensuring the sustainability of our wildlife and our forest fires and all of that.

And so, you know, to each and every one of them, they do an important job in prot ecting our environment and protecting our province, and each and every one of them have indicated that, in different regions, there are different issues. So, you know, that in itself is a huge –I guess, it's a hard area to get a hold of unless you're actual ly–or to understand unless you're actually out there in the field in those different areas. They all have, as I said, different issues, but, you know, in Parks and Regional Services many things that they do.

I mean, they implement the forest-fire prevent ion, detection, suppression, and pre-suppression, post -suppression of forest fires or wildfires. They work together with other provinces and states and, you know, we saw that recently with the wildfires that we had by Caddy Lake and Nora Lake, and, working together, we were able to suppress those fires rather quickly, ensure that there were no losses of cottages at all, which in itself was an amazing feat when you consider the size of the fires and how rapidly they spread, you know, within the forest.

So, huge job that they do in suppressing wildfires and forest fire –and forest protection, not only fires. * (15:40) But they also operate and maintain and develop our provincial parks, and our provincial parks are probably, you know, something that is idolized by other provinces. I mean, you look at what we've got in Manitoba, and compared to some other provinces, I mean, we are so fortunate that we have parks that are so beautiful and places that you want to go walking through. I know my family and I have wal ked through, I think–is it bear trail? Yes. [interjection] Bear Lake Trail, at–just off the 44.

It's amazing, you know, to walk through that trail and, you know, we had three young children, and –three sons, and they all, you know, walked through that bog, through the mud. But, you know, determination prevailed and we made sure that we got to the end of it. And, you know, we were able to get back and just–we still talk about it to this day, you know, what an amazing opportunity that was to be out in middle of nature, the forest, and enjoy that pristine water as well. So, you know, that in itself is amazing and it's something that I think we should be proud of within our parks branch, so.

But, with regard back to your question, you know, vacancies are nothing new. As I said, there were–I believe it was a hundred positions that were eliminated under the previous government, eliminated from the department because of reductions to the budget allotment, and those must have had a real impact, and I'm sure they did, as I said earlier. You know, budget pressures from the past resulted in some of these vacancies and have continued on. But vacancies occur naturally, often when people retire or move on to other jobs.

I know that in talking to people from conservation and parks, they tell us that quite often the conservation officers start out in Manitoba and learn all what's required to be a conservation officer, and then they move on to the–with the federal government, because of –you know, to go and have the opportunity to work in Canmore or Banff National Park or something like that. So, you know, there are reasons for these vacancies, and it's nothing new. It's just something that has occurred and has occurred in the past, but it hasn't impacted our front-line services, so. Thank you. Mr.

Altemeyer: The minister came close to answering my question there towards the end but then skated off the runway. I mean, I–having worked in the minister's office, I mean, there is a dynamic at play here. I don't understand, though, w hat the problem the minister is having, nothing about the staff. I don't know why just sharing the number publicly of the number of vacancies within one

section of her department is a difficulty. When we were in government and the roles were reversed, and her party was in opposition, an answer like that would quite often just result in a FIPPA request ending up in the minister's desk, and then the department staff have to go and do a whole bunch of work which takes them away from what you and I agree are also priorities, that front-line work, moving

1414 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 Manitoba forward, whatever language you want to use. And, a refusal to answer a very simple question right now, which should be easy to put on the public record, is just going to potentially increase that busywork which is completely unnecessary. So, I'm wondering why it's unreasonable for the public to know, of all the staff positions that the minister has indicated exist, why she won't tell the public which ones of those actually aren't filled right now in her department. And could I please get those numbers? Mrs. Cox: Thank you for that question.

Yes, I know that you have been involved, for many years, with climate change and with the department. Formerly, you were the legislative assistant, so you know that part of the process. And, you know, it's nothing new. There are, you know, no, I guess–what's the word for it?–no front -line services that have been cut as a result of that. And, yes, thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: If there's no front -line services that have b een cut, why can't the minister just indicate which positions are vacant, then? What is there to hide? Mrs. Cox : Well, I'd like to thank the member for that question.

Of course, all of the information with regard to vacancies and number of staff – [interjection]–yes, or the number of positions are indicated in the supplementary information. And, you know, I think that if you're looking for positions that are available currently, you could find those on the website, because they are available there. So, yes, I think that being involved in this, previously, you probably have a good handle of what type of positions may be reflected in here. Thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: Yes, the number of positions is provided in the Estimates book–same as it is every year.

And, ye s, the positions that are publicly being hired, posted right now, are also posted–same as in every year. Is the minister saying that all 135 FTE equivalent positions in her department are currently posted? * (15:50) Mrs. Cox: Well, there are–all of the positions will be posted, and–all positions, I should say, are posted on the website that are currently available. Some will be posted. I mean, we have to prioritize the different positions. Lots of seasonal staff that we have, as you know, within our department just based on the fact of people who go out there and fight wildfires, things like that.

And so there is a high staff turnover as well. It's a dynamic type of a situation with regard to our department, and especially in the parks department. Thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: The fact that there might be seasonal work does not relate at all to the nature of my question. The minister has told the public, through her document, that there are over 1,100 full -time equivalent positions in her department. Who fills those positions is one issue. Whether anyone is filling the issues right now is the question I'm getting to.

And, for some reason, the minister seems reticent to provide the public through this process with the number of positions that are currently vacant in just one

section of her department. I'll ask one more time. We can go the FIPPA route, which is not exactly the hallmark of a government claiming to be more efficient or transparent or accountable. We'll end up in the same place. I'll have the information I'm asking for, but you'll have made all of your staff spend many hours doing extra work. I don't understand the reticence of the minister to just answer the question. So, one more time: Can she please take under advisement and agree to provide, later, a breakdown of the number of vacancies in her department and where those are? Mrs.

Cox : The member opposite was at the table previously and so is aware of the positions and the dynamic situation with regard to our department of parks. Balancing the need to fill the jobs and manage the budget are –go hand -in-hand. So there is a balance. It's nothing new and we have invested new dollars within our department –2.5 per cent. Unlike the government before, we have not cut 100 positions. So the department, you know, is functioning right now to ensure that vacancies are posted. We've done that online, just like we have i n the previous situations.

But vacancies do occur naturally when people retire or find other jobs. That's nothing new than what occurs in most departments. No one has been laid off, yes, within our department, and we have just found efficiencies to do things better within our department. Thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, we'll just have to see where that paper trail leads us, then, shall we?

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1415 What issues are currently under review by the Clean Environment Commission? Mrs. Cox : We haven't mandated the Clea n Environment Commission to do anything new yet. I know that there is a regional cumulative effect study, which is looking at the transmission line from Minnesota to Manitoba. Mr. Altemeyer: So that's the only active file that the government has asked the CEC to be working on right now, or are there others? Outstanding reports, anything we're waiting on? Mrs. Cox: I stand to be corrected. We did not ask for the regional cumulative effect study.

I think that was done by your government, and, currently, the y are looking at the south end plant, the water and waste treatment plant, City of Winnipeg. The –doing some work on contaminated sites, and that's it. Mr. Altemeyer: Are any of those investigations ones that she has initiated or that her government has initiated since coming into office, or are all three of those carry-overs from the previous government? Mrs. Cox: They're all carry-overs. Mr. Altemeyer: Thank you for that. What projects will the minister be asking the IISD to pursue this year? Mrs. Cox : Yes, thank you for that question.

We have met with Scott Vaughan and had a good initial meeting. You know, I think that we plan to bring them in to discuss water management, climate change, things of those natures. You know, I know that they are world cla ss, do world- class research in science and innovation and, you know, originated here in the heart of Manitoba, in Winnipeg. So, very proud of the fact that they did originate here; have had other discussions with them.

Actually, just today, as a matter of fact, we met with another individual from Ottawa, and good discussion. * (16:00) You know, I think that they just bring such a wealth of information and, obviously, they've done so much research and have the ability to probably provide us with a lot of information and advice that we could, in fact, certainly use with regard to all of these different areas that we're going to be examining as part of this government and our new mandate. So, look forward to working with ISD and having input from them on a lot of these very important issues.

And, you know, as we often say, why reinvent the wheel when somebody has already developed such great programs and developed such great studies and can provide us with so much knowledge that we are just really pleased to draw on their world- class expertise. I am going to the dinner this evening and will have the opportunity to have more discussions with them and just really actually thrilled to do that.

The expertise and the information that they bring to the table is just second to none, and we are so fortunate to have them as part of our discussion groups and part of our groups as we move forward with these new and exciting projects and plans, made -in- Manitoba plans. Mr. Altemeyer: Will the minister be keeping the round table? Mrs. Cox : Thanks for that question. [interjection] No, thanks for the question. I know. I do have the report in front of me, and so I have read it, and we've talked about it.

And, of course, it's one of those areas, just like many other projects, or whatever legislation that new governments look at, and we'll have to make those decisions down the road. I think that's something that we need to see how effective it is. And from looking at the 2014- 15–I guess it was the annual report –I do see some of the duties, the powers of the round table, the members. And I believe you're a member of the round table, are you? [interjection] Yes, exactly. I did read your bio and the information.

And I read with, yes, with interest with regard to the members on the r ound table, the meetings that you had–I believe there was one in May of 2014 and January 2015–and the award process that took place. And look forward to continuing that award process because I think it's very good for individuals, organizations, to–and to encourage them to embrace sustainability. So I think that's important, something that we will do. But, you know, like we've talked about and I've said to you earlier today, we want to ensure that we do consult with people and that we give the Manitobans t he opportunity to talk to us.

And we will listen to them, and we want to be inclusive. So, with regard to this department, we are going to examine it and determine whether or not that's a program that we will move forward to, and perhaps we will in certain areas. I'm not quite sure yet. But I can't give you a straight, you know, answer on this right now. I think that it's, like governments have

1416 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 23, 2016 done before–I know that there's programs that were in Family Services before: the Women and Infant Nutrition program, it was called the WIN program, and it was an excellent program for providing young moms with very new babies the opportunity to learn how to parent, prepare meals and do things like that, so. And, unfortunately, I don't think that program is around any more.

So I think that's something that governments do on a regular basis is they re-examine what's currently there and they re -examine if–what's working and what's not, and maybe expanding on those things that they feel they could do better on and just moving forward with, you know, as we call it, made-in-Manitoba plans. So, with regard to the round table, I think that that's up for discussion, and we want to review it, so thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: So did I hear the minister right? She's going to review whether the round table exists, but she wants to keep the round table's awards ceremony?

I'm not quite sure how that would work. Mrs. Cox: Thank you for that question. I think that, as I said, you know, there's always bits and pieces of legislation, bits and pieces of different organizations and, you know, in this case, the round table, that, you know, we may want to continue, maybe not in this format but, you know, in some format. We're a new government, seven weeks in as a new minister, and I think we want to be inclusive and talk to Manitobans and listen to what the best way is of actually listening to Manitobans and engaging them in that process.

So as we move for ward, we will have opportunities to engage Manitobans and listen to them with regard to this type of round table and, you know, as well with other types of projects that we currently have within department. So, you know, there's lots of, I guess, project s and legislation and, you know, other areas that may be up for discussion. Mr. Altemeyer: Oh, speaking of legislation, I've got that on my list too. Will the minister be reintroducing The Surface Water Management Act? Mrs. Cox: Thank you for that question. You know, obviously, watershed-based planning is an important issue.

I know it's an issue that we have been, in our home, believe it or not –I know it's kind of something dry that you wouldn't expect to discuss in a home, but we've got two sons that are– have environmental degrees, so it is an issue that comes up quite often. And it gives me a chance to speak to our commitment to implement new watershed -based planning for drainage and water resource management, with a goal, as indicated in my mandate letter, of no net loss of water retention capacity in watersheds. Our goal is no net loss, as I just said, of water retention capacity in Manitoba watersheds.

And as with, you know, other governments do, federal, provincial, you know, there's an intere st to look at that, for sure, and determine whether or not we will keep the entire bill as you had it, Bill 5, I think it is, was it, that was what you were bringing forward, or we will revise it to something that is maybe more of a made-in-Manitoba plan. But I think that we need to discuss that with other stakeholders. I know we've met with conservation districts and ISD and, you know, talked about the need to ensure that we move water safely and ensure that water isn't moved when it shouldn't be moved.

But we will engage stakeholders in the development and implementation and we will ensure that there's effective surface water management because we know it's essential to reducing the cost of flooding, holding back water that can be used in droughts and removing excess nutrients that cause harmful algae as in our waters that we see today. * (16:10) So I know that you worked hard on that bill and I know that there were many consultations with stakeholders. And so, you know, we will look at it, and I know that you said, in the House, that–what did you say? That it was a very good piece of legislation.

And I understand that, and it's unfortunate that maybe perhaps after all of those stakeholders who participated, weren't able to see it come to be debated and passed in the Legislature. But, you know, we will look at it and, as I said, we–as a lot of new governments do, we'll base our decisions on talking to stakeholders. So thank you for that. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, it is a very good piece of legislation, and I 'm encouraged to hear the minister

June 23, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1417 has it on her radar. She doesn't need to worry about reinventing the wheel, as she said earlier. If she's looking for a made -in-Manitoba approach to that issue, she's actually sitting next to the people who helped, in ver y big ways, craft that legislation. And, far as I know, they're all Manitobans. So I think we had agreement from more parties than usual –shall I put it? –prior to the writ being dropped and the election started on that particular piece of legislation.

And I would encourage the minister to, certainly, continue to work with her staff and others to bring it forward as soon as possible. And that's my next question. Can the minister give us a timeline of when she hopes to bring The Surface Water Management Act back to the House? Mr. Len Isleifson, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mrs. Cox : Thank you for that question. And, you know, being a government–I guess, we were elected, I think it's nine weeks ago, so, seven weeks as a minister. I think that, you know, we do want to move forward with good legislation, and so we're not going to rush it.

We're–have over the summer, I think, once the–after House adjourns, we're going to start looking at the legislation, looking at the surface 'waterment'–water–surface watershed management, Bill 5, that you had initially worked on. And, you know, develop some –like I say, not reinvent the wheel, but develop a piece of legislation that is based on what's important to Manitobans and consulting with them. I know that you did a great job in talking to stakeholders, and the staff were excellent in doing that. But, you know, we've got a lot of work to do, as indicated in my mandate letter.

And I think that we want to make sure that we get it right. So we don't want to have to star t on something and then re - examine it in a year or so later. So we're going to work together with those stakeholders that I mentioned earlier and ensure that we do get it right. And the bill that you have presented to us before, I think, is a good piece of information. And, like you said, it's a good starting point. And, hopefully, we can elaborate on it and make it even better. So thank you. Mr. Altemeyer: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chair.

I'd encourage the minister to recognize that, as indicated by the fact that there was broad support in the House for the legislation, stakeholders were consulted. They were very, very disappointed when that particular piece of legislation didn't get the opportunity to be passed. I don't think she's going to get radically different feedback from said stakeholders. Could she please commit to reintroducing that legislation, obviously, not this summer, but in one of the fall sessions? Mrs. Cox : Thank you for that question.

And, as I indicated, you know, we have over the summer months, just being a new government, we want to ensure that we get it right and, you know, make it even better. So we are going to work over the summer months to ensure that that surface water management piece of legislation is developed in consultation w ith Manitoba stakeholders and Manitobans and make sure that, perhaps, we can even make it better. I know that –I'm looking at, I guess, the discussions that you did have with regard to Bill 5, and it looks like you had many of them.

But, you know, ALUS is also an important part of that bill, and we're going to work with the Department of Agriculture to ensure that that's a component of it. And I think that we've seen a lot of good things with the ALUS program. I know I've seen different –read reports and seen videos, things like that, of the success that they've had with ALUS. So I think that that needs to be a major component within that piece of legislation. Mr. Altemeyer: The minister speaks of improving on the bill as it was originally presented. What flaws does she see in it that need to be improved? Mrs. Cox:

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-1-27b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 1st hansardpdf 27b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a09fdfb90588071538515686ad4d09c312fa3ccd

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