British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, October 6, 2005

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, October 6, 2005 Afternoon Sitting Volume 2, Number 3 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC FIRST SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Deregulation ...................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Acting Legislative Comptroller..................................................................................................................................................Brent Cunningham

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)...................................................................................Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP)....................................................................... Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) .....................................................................East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ..................................................................Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..........................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) ..............................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ............................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) .............................................................................North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)................................................................. Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) ..............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP)......................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ....................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...................................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...................................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP)............................................................................ Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) .................................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)...........................................................

Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)................................................................ Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)....................................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP)............................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) .................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)..............................................................................

Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP)......................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L)...................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon.

Wally, QC (L)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)................................................................ Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ......................................................................................... Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)........................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...................................................................Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon.

Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) .....................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP).......................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ..............................................................Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................ Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP).......................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ......................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon. Carole (L)..........................................................

Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) ......................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) .......................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) ......................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)........................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ...............................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North....................................................................................Bob Simpson Cariboo South................................................................................... Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ....................................................................... Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke ......................................................Norm Macdonald Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville................................................................... Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................................Doug Routley Delta North........................................................................................

Guy Gentner Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay ............................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin ............................................................. Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson..........................................................

Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .......................................................................Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ............................................................................Sindi Hawkins Langley................................................................................................

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca........................................................................John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...........................................................Michael Sather Nanaimo ...........................................................................................Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville..........................................................................

Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston.................................................................................. Corky Evans New Westminster ........................................................................Chuck Puchmayr North Coast .........................................................................................Gary Coons North Island.................................................................................... Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ....................................................

Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................. Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .........................................................................Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast.....................................................Nicholas Simons Prince George North .........................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .....................................................................John Rustad Richmond Centre .......................................................................... Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................... John Yap Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon.

Murray Coell Saanich South..............................................................................David Cubberley Shuswap ................................................................................ Hon. George Abbott Skeena ...............................................................................................Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................

Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ....................................................................................Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge...................................................................... Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ............................................................................... Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.................................................................. Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings...................................................................... Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway...........................................................................

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara.................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ........................................................................Carole James Victoria-Hillside................................................................................

Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary ............................................................ Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................. Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet ..........................................................................................Harry Lali

CONTENTS Thursday, October 6, 2005 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................... 561 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ........................................... 562 Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2005 (Bill 10) Hon. R.

Coleman Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............... 562 Government support for first nations J. McIntyre Mental illness awareness C. Wyse Richmond Youth Soccer Association J. Yap Public transit R. Fleming Cooperative governance in B.C. J. Nuraney David Walton S.

Simpson Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ........................................................... 564 Government role in teachers labour dispute C. James Hon. S. Bond Hon. M. de Jong D. Thorne J. Horgan J. Kwan Access to nutritional supplements for income assistance recipients C. Trevena Hon. C. Richmond Government support for social housing D. Routley Hon. R. Coleman Government support for low-income seniors R. Chouhan Hon. G.

Abbott Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 569 Forest Appeals Commission, annual report, 2004 Hon. R. Coleman Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ..................................................... 569 Teachers' Collective Agreement Act (Bill 12) (continued) R. Chouhan G. Coons D. Cubberley M. Sather G. Gentner B.

Lekstrom Motions without Notice ......................................................................................................... ................................................... 589 Continuation of sitting beyond ordinary hour of adjournment M. Farnworth A. Dix J. Kwan Hon. M. de Jong

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ..................................................... 594 Teachers' Collective Agreement Act (Bill 12) (continued) M. Karagianis G. Robertson S. Hammell C. Trevena J. Kwan R. Fleming C. Wyse C. James J. Horgan L. Krog D. Cubberley Hon. M. de Jong A. Dix S. Fraser G. Coons R. Chouhan H. Bains G. Gentner B. Simpson C. Trevena M. Sather C. Evans R. Austin J. Brar D. Thorne C. Puchmayr M. Farnworth K. Conroy N. Macdonald C. James D. Routley S. Simpson B. Ralston D. Chudnovsky J.

Horgan Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ..................................................... 719 Estimates: Ministry of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues (continued) Hon. I. Chong M. Karagianis C. Trevena N. Macdonald J. Horgan C. Wyse B. Simpson S. Fraser

561 THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 The House met at 2:02 p.m. Introductions by Members C. Puchmayr: It is my pleasure to introduce to the House today Carol Arnold, who resides in my con- stituency. Carol is of Métis-Cree heritage and is sec- o n d e d t o t h e G u l f I s l a n d s s c h o o l d i s t r i c t t o w o r k a s a faculty associate at Simon Fraser University. She's en- gaged in teacher education with the indigenous peo- ple's teaching education module.

It is important to note that 60 percent of Canada's aboriginal population lives in B.C. and that this segment of the population is the fastest growing in western Canada. The majority of first nations are under the age of 25. Carol is part of a delegation of the public school teachers from across the province, and she serves as co-chair of the aboriginal education committee for the B.C. Federation of Teach- ers. Please give her a warm welcome. Hon. L. Reid: I am pleased to welcome to the chamber today Lynda Croft Reynolds Turney, who indeed has been a friend of mine for 33 years.

I would ask the House to please make her welcome. D. Chudnovsky: I have two introductions to make today. First, I'd like to introduce to the House Sheila Maracle, who is a constituent of mine. Sheila is from the Mohawk nation in southe rn Ontario. She's lived in B.C. for the past 15 years and has taught for ten years in Vancouver's inner city, where the schools have a majority of aboriginal students in their class. Please make Sheila welcome. I'd also like the House to welcome Christine Stew- art, who is a Ganada and ci tizen of the Nisga'a Nation.

She's a Vancouver teacher, and Christine has just de- fended her master's degree in July. The topic was in- digenous teachers working in lower mainland public schools. Please welcome Christine Stewart. [1405] R. Lee: In the House today we have some visitors from Guangdong, China. We have Jock Zhao,

section chief of the Zhongshan Overseas Chinese Affairs Bu- reau; Mr. Yan Lin and Mr. Jianing Song from Zhong- shan Radio and Television Station; Mr. John Zhang, principal of the Bond Language Institute. Accompany- ing them is Mr. Lincoln Liu, president of the Victoria Hook Sin Tong Charity. Would the House please make them welcome. R. Austin: It's my privilege today to introduce two members who are visiting here. They are both constitu- ents of mine and friends. The first is Sue Spalding — she's a member of the Tsimshian nation — and her partner Shane Pauls, who is a member of the Tahltan nation.

They are both aboriginal educators. I would like the House to please make them welcome. M. Polak: I would like to introduce to the House Daryl Racette. I had the pleasure of working with Daryl when I was part of the aboriginal education ad- visory committee in the Surrey school district. Would the House please make Daryl welcome. M. Karagianis: In the gallery today we have eight people who represent a very innovative entrepreneu- rial enterprise called Street Newz. Street Newz represents and is an entrepreneurial effort on behalf of all those who live in poverty on the streets.

I would like to in- troduce Janine Bandcroft, Ted Hawryluk, Ken Bath, Robin Kingsley, my good fr iend Rose Henry, Robert Lightheart-Jones, Jim Hedger, Diane Wallrich and Larry Wartel. Would you please make them welcome here today. Hon. J. van Dongen: I'm pleased to introduce to the House today a special visitor from the United King- dom. I'm pleased to welcome Martin Cronin, the newly appointed consul general for the United Kingdom in Vancouver. He's here for m eetings with a number of ministers mainly on trade, commerce and energy is- sues, and we welcome him to British Columbia and wish him well today.

I ask the House to please make him welcome. L. Krog: With great pleasure I introduce three guests today. One of my old classmates from law school, a senior public se rvant from Ottawa, Milly Nickason. Accompanying her is her mother Millicent Nickason and her uncle Dr. Gilbert Ogilvy. I'd ask the House to please make them welcome. D. Routley: I would like to welcome to the House a friend and constituent, Brock Mcleod, a fine activist, a defender of education. I would like the House to please make him welcome. R.

Hawes: Years ago, when the Minister of Ag- riculture was a young man still trying to find his way, he met a mentor that straightened out his life and taught him everything that he now knows. That mentor is in the gallery today, Mr. Ted Adlem. H e h a p p e n s t o a l s o b e t he president of my riding association. Could the House please make him wel- come. [1410] G. Coons: I'm pleased and honoured to have the privilege of introducing a good friend and colleague from Haida Gwaii. She's one of my constituents. She's an aboriginal teacher from Tsimshian nation.

Her tradi- tional name is Bilham Yuks, which means pearl on the fin of the killer whale. She is from the Git'le'giux tribe from the house of Meduck, grizzly bear. Her crest is killer whale. She has been a proud member of the B.C. Teachers Federation for five years, and she currently teaches grades two and thr ee in Skidegate on Haida Gwaii. Please join me in welcoming Michelle Davies to the House today.

562 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 Hon. K. Falcon: Today in the House we are joined by three members of the El liot family. They are three young people. Two of them are full-time students, one is a high school student, and one is a full-time SFU student. I would like to welcome Molly Elliot, Nigel Elliot, and Caroline Elliot, affectionately known to fam- ily and friends as Boomer. Will the House please make them welcome. S. Simpson: I'm very pleased today to welcome my good friend and a good friend of many on this side of the House, Cheryl Hewitt.

Cheryl has been a longtime advocate in the health care and cooperative move- ments. Importantly, she is a lifetime member and activ- ist in our party. She is currently the treasurer of the provincial NDP. I'm pleased to say that she managed my election campaign, and I thank her very much for all that work. Please make her welcome. G. Hogg: This morning I had the honour of meeting with a resident of Surrey–White Rock. She's an abo- riginal teacher in the Surre y school district. Her name is Gaaxstalas Wedlidi. She's a member of the Tlowitsis first nation.

She's a passionate teacher who cares deeply about the services provided to the students of Surrey and this province. Would you please make her most welcome. G. Gentner: It's with great pleasure I introduce to the House Lynda Toews, a te acher from my constitu- ency of Delta North, although us colonials refer to it as north Delta. Lynda teaches adult basic and special edu- cation at the Invergarry adult centre in Surrey and is an executive member of the BCTF. Could the House please give her a warm welcome. M. Sather: I want to add my welcome to a member of my constituency, Millie Nickason, who is here today.

Millie is 82 years old and just full of life. She recently came to my constituency office asking that assistance be pro- vided for people who are seeking treatment across the river in terms of getting there — not for herself, but for others. Would all members please make her welcome. M. Farnworth: I'm pleased this afternoon to intro- duce to the House Laura Rudland, who is a teacher in the Vancouver school district and lives in my constitu- ency. Laura is also presiden t of the First Nations Edu- cation Association, Provincial Specialist Association. She's also a member of the Metlakatla nation.

I would ask the House to please make Laura welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills FORESTS AND RANGE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 Hon. R. Coleman presented a message from His Honour the Administrator: a bill intituled Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2005. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that Bill 10 be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I'm introducing Bill 10, which proposes amendments to th ree forestry statutes: the Forestry Revitalization Act; the Forest and Range Prac- tices Act, or FRPA; and the Wildfire Act.

The proposed changes to the Forestry Revitaliza- tion Act correct the

schedule to reflect the current own- ers of licences and allows further updates to be made to the

schedule as they are required. This bill also makes parallel amendments to the Forest and Range Practices Act and the Wildfire Act. These amendments clearly authorize the compliance and enforcement actions that may be taken for past contravention of the Forest Prac- tices Code of British Columbia Act and for contraven- tions of the grandparented code under which some licensees continue to operat e while they transition to the Forest and Range Practices Act.

The amendments ensure that all contraventions of the code are subject to the compliance and enforcement actions set out under the Fo rest and Range Practices Act or the Wildfire Act. These amendments will ensure that the government can continue to protect the forest and rangelands for all British Columbians. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 10, Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2005, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. [1415] Statements (Standing Order 25

B) GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR FIRST NATIONS J. McIntyre: I'm pleased to rise today to report to the House that I had the privilege of attending the Premier's announcement last week of the provincial government's doubling the funding to $6 million for the Squamish-Lillooet cultural centre in Whistler, in my riding. This centre will showcase first nations his- tory and culture and will be a lasting legacy for genera- tions to come from hosting the 2010 games.

It also demonstrates the benefit of partnerships not only between two first nation s but among first nations, various levels of government and the private sector — in this case, Bell Canada — w h o h a v e c o m b i n e d r e - sources to build what will be a tremendous cultural addition to the region. Building new arts and culture facilities will have the added benefit of reinforcing Whistler's status as a first-class international four- season resort.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 563 Throughout the past year I have had the privilege of developing constructive relationships with first na- tions leaders in my constituency as we work together to advance this governme nt's commitment to build new relationship with first nations. I have had various meetings with the Squami sh nation, Lillooet, Nek- wakwa, the newly formed Iskut nation, as well as the Lower Stl'atl'imx Tribal Council to assist in achieving goals and dealing with concerns.

I'm proud that in the bu dget update, this govern- ment has committed $100 million to a New Relation- ship fund that supports capacity-building and will assist first nations communities to be effective partners in consultations regarding the use of land and re- sources. British Columbia will be an even better place for all of our children to grow and thrive as a result of our government's approach based on recognition, re- spect and reconciliation. MENTAL ILLNESS AWARENESS C. Wyse: I would ask my colleagues to join me in acknowledging that this week is Mental Illness Aware- ness Week.

Mental health touches all segments of the population. I think that every one of us here has probably been touched at some point by an individual with a mental illness. Despite the fact that one in five Canadians is directly affected by mental illness, the social stigma that our so- ciety has yet to fully overcome prevents many from get- ting the help they need. Fifty percent of the ten leading causes of disability are related to mental disorders. Men- tal health conditions now contribute more to disability in Canada than any other single disease group, including cancer, diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

The theme of Mental Illn ess Awareness Week this year is "Face mental illness." The Canadian Alliance on Mental Illness and Mental Health and all of its member organizations, including organizations in B.C., are put- ting forward the faces of courageous Canadians who have gone forward with their stories of mental illness so that we can all see that they are just like you and me.

I would ask that all of my colleagues reach out to individuals and organizations in your community that are marking this week, and not just this week but every week, so we can promote greater understanding of just how we are all impacted by mental illness. I would, in particular, ask my colleagues to also recognize that today is Depression Screening Day and to raise public awareness about this so that people in your community can get the help they need. Public institutions like colleges, universities and organizations in the community hold free screenings to build public awareness and get people help.

There is much more to be done to ensure that people with mental illness can lead healthy and productive lives. RICHMOND YOUTH SOCCER ASSOCIATION J. Yap: I rise today to talk about the greatest sport in the world and how it's doing in my community — that would be soccer — and the occasion of the 50th anni- versary of the Richmond Youth Soccer Association. [1420] I recently had the opportunity to be a guest along with the Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts at the wonderful dinner held to celebrate this anniversary at the Vancouver Austrian Club in Richmond.

Back in 1955 the Richmond Youth Soccer Association started with just six teams. Since then, soccer in Richmond has grown rapidly. Thanks to the support of countless vol- unteers, Richmond soccer today has 168 boys, 100 girls and 100 adult teams. This coming weekend 113 boys teams and 110 girls teams will be coming from all over the lower mainland to participate in the 29th annual Thanksgiving tournament. It will be a great weekend for sport in Richmond. These men, women, girls and boys play soccer year after year, developing their skills, working out and having fun with friends in a team environment.

Over the past 50 years over 25,000 children have come through the Richmond Youth Soccer Association. Some of the notable players include Randy Samuel, who played for the Canadian national squad and the White- caps. Most recently Jason Jordan of the Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club was named the United Soccer L e a g u e ' s f i r s t - d i v i s i o n m o s t v a l u a b l e p l a y e r f o r t h e 2005 season.

Three Richmond youth players under 14 will be going to Florida in November with the Whitecaps youth program to defend th eir North American youth league championship: Connor Radil, Joseph Martin and Tommy Cui. Richmond Youth Soccer supports our government's great goal to lead the way in North America in healthy living and physical fitness. This is important because the more people we get into a healthy lifestyle, the fewer health problems our government will have to deal with that are caused by inactivity. Fewer health problems will mean happier people and less need for expensive health treatmen ts.

Certainly, Richmond Youth Soccer is a valuable institution in my commu- nity. PUBLIC TRANSIT R. Fleming: I rise to speak today to make a state- ment about the important role that public transit plays in Greater Victoria and in over 50 other B.C. communi- ties. Every day B.C. Transit pr ovides mobility to a sig- nificant

section of our citi zenry. Public transit also plays a tremendous role in the development of our economy and contributes to the health of our citizens. Good transit systems enha nce property values in commercial centres and assist in the revitalization of downtown centres. In areas of heavy congestion, in- vestment in public transit helps goods move faster, provides personal time savings for commuters and improves employers' access to labour. Public transit also helps our economy and public safety by reducing vehicle collisions. The rate of fatal

564 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 collisions per passenger kilometre is ¹⁄₂₀ t h a t o f c a r travel. Recently in Victoria a group of transit riders, supported by Mothers Agai nst Drunk Driving and the B.C. Restaurant and Foodservices Association, sup- ported the introduction of late-night bus service on weekends. The cost of the se rvice is relatively small; the potential to save lives, immeasurable. My community is unable to fund this initiative and has been unable to make up for the cutbacks to transit service in the last four years.

Today there are 100,000 fewer hours of transit service on the road in my com- munity. With fewer buses on the roads, service is worsened. I'm deeply disappointed that the 2005 budget update has not shown any vision for communi- ties or displayed any interest in public transit in Victo- ria and the 50 other small and medium-sized commu- nities across B.C. COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE IN B.C. J. Nuraney: I want to share my observations at the UBCM convention, which I attended last week.

I was very impressed to hear comments from mayors and councillors from different ju risdictions in our province like Tumbler Ridge, Chetwynd, Hudson's Hope, Pentic- ton and others. The common core was the excitement they felt because of the economic activities taking place in their municipalities. There was a marked sense of confidence and optimism about the future of our prov- ince. Apart from this infectious optimism, what I found most reassuring was the hum of cooperation among the different levels of government.

Remarks from our Premier, the Prime Minister and other leaders reso- nated with the new way of doing business through cooperation and consultation. When the Leader of the Opposition spoke about her resolve to work in the spirit of cooperation, I felt a sense of new hope for our province. In a democratic society such as ours, it is expected for political parties to have differing points of view.

However, when those leaders with opposing political philosophies talk about seeking common ground, it bodes well for the future of our province. [1425] I would like to thank bo th the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition for their efforts in pursuing a new way in cooperation and in adopting a road that is less travelled in order to seek what is best for British Columbia. [Applause.] I consider it a privilege to be a part of this…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. J. Nuraney: If I may, Mr. Speaker.

I consider it a privilege to be a part of what I like to call a new way to improve the lives of British Columbians and for the generations to follow. DAVID WALTON S. Simpson: On October 2, I attended a celebration of life for my friend David Walton, who passed away from cancer. After strugglin g with the disease for 26 years and having beaten it twice, David finally lost his battle on September 1 of this year. It was an honour for me to attend David's celebra- tion of life along with hundreds of others, including the member for Vancouver-Kensington and David's cousin, the Minister of Economic Development.

David was born on April 5, 1959, in Squamish and raised in 100 Mile House. He graduated from Simon Fraser University and was the recipient of the Terry Fox Gold Medal award for courage in 1986, an award that is given to a person who has demonstrated those personal qualities of courage in adversity and dedica- tion to society which have been exemplified by Terry Fox in his Marathon of Hope.

David was a longtime political and community activist, one of those people that we who sit in this place know are the backbone of the political process, an active New Democrat who volunteered in every capac- ity including many years as constituency president. He worked as executive assistan t to the Attorney General and as ministerial assistant to the Premier. David was bright, committed and compassionate. His many friends in the political world will miss his wisdom, kindness and generosity. His activism was much broader than simply parti- san and electoral politics.

It included his many years of community work both as a volunteer and profession- ally, including with the Pacific Community Resources Society where he worked for families and youth in need. David has left behind many good friends and family who will miss him dearly. More than anything, he will be missed by his wife and soulmate, Anisa Kassam- Walton. David was one of those people we are all proud to have known. He was committed to social justice, to his family and to his community, and he was an inspira- tion in the manner in which he dealt with his illness with dignity and courage.

I was privileged to have known David Walton. I ask this House to pass on its most sin- cere condolences and best wishes to his friends, his fam- ily and in particular to his wife Anisa. Oral Questions GOVERNMENT ROLE IN TEACHERS LABOUR DISPUTE C. James: With parents and students now in limbo, I'd like to ask the Deputy Premier if she will take any responsibility for increasing the level of confrontation in this dispute with teachers. Hon. S. Bond: Well, that's an interesting question coming from the Leader of the Opposition.

This is ac- tually the side of the House that believed that educa- tion was so important that we said it was an essential

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 565 service, to make sure students stayed in school and in classrooms across this province. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a sup- plemental. C. James: Well, we can see where their essential service has taken us now. It's taken us to a crisis, to the brink of a crisis. Leadersh ip demands a search for common ground, trying to find solutions. That's what leadership is about.

But this government has not shown any leadership. [1430] Again I ask the Deputy Premier: do you think that it was a mistake for the Premier to brush off a request that was made three months ago for the government to sit down with teachers and try and resolve this dis- pute? Hon. S. Bond: We have made it perfectly clear that class size is an important issue to us. We have made several opportunities available to have that discussion, including for a number of years the education advisory committee. We want to have that discussion. We think it's a meaningful place.

This morning my colleague the Minister of Labour met with members of the B.C. Federation of Labour and the B.C. Teachers Federation. As a result of that discussion and a briefing that I've had with the Minis- ter of Labour, we are going to create in the province a learning round table. I expect this afternoon to be con- tacting parties — which include the B.C. Teachers Fed- eration, trustees, parents and also administrators — to come and participate in a significant forum. We understand that class sizes and situations for teachers are important. In fact, we are prepared to have that discussion. I invite the B.C.

Teachers Federation to join us at that table. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. C. James: I understand that disputes like this are complex and difficult. But it's been three and a half years. There have been opportunities to resolve this dispute and to find a table before this. Why, once a g a i n , d o e s t h i s g o v e r n m e n t n e e d t o b r i n g u s t o t h e brink of a difficulty for parents and students in this province before they finally look at a solution? Again, I'd like to raise another issue with the Dep- uty Premier.

Will she at least accept that the Premier and his party used the election process to again inflame the situation and create more confrontation by using the education system as a political tool? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, members. Hon. M. de Jong: M r . S p e a k e r , I h a v e t o s a y , through you to the Leader of the Opposition, on the eve of what she has correctly described as a day fraught with uncertainty, that I'm a bit surprised at her question. We are at a point where we need to show leadership. On this side of the House we are doing so.

We are doing so with a piece of legislation that is be- fore this House, which I un derstand there are differing views on. But we are all legi slators. We are all lawmak- ers. The leadership that the Leader of the Opposition has to show is to make it clear to the people who she counts on for political support that she does not sup- port what would be unlawful and illegal activity. This is her opportunity to do so. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: And while we are committed to working and leaving no stone unturned to find a reso- lution to these complex matt ers, that is the question that the Leader of the Opposition must answer and make clear — that she, her party, will not support teachers or anyone else breaking the law. D. Thorne: This government has made it very clear that they believe the bargaining system in British Co- lumbia is broken in this inst ance, and it's true. It needs to be fixed. But it is not going to be fixed in a climate of anger and confrontation, a climate that this govern- ment laid the groundwork for.

Does the Deputy Premie r understand how ripping up the teachers' contract in 2002 contributed to this serious impasse? [1435] Hon. M. de Jong: I t i s b r o k e n . W e h a v e b e e n through the history, and there are versions of that his- tory. But the part that is irre futable is that through five rounds of negotiation, the parties have never arrived at a freely negotiated collective agreement. So we have begun the process of rebuilding or attempting to re- build that negotiating structure. Earlier today I announced, as I said I would earlier this week, that Mr.

Vince Ready has accepted the role as the industrial inquiry commissioner to begin the process, to work with the parties, to get them to a state and a stage armed with a process that we hope will work better than the one we have now, where in a mat- ter of months they can negotiate an agreement — a freely negotiated agreement — that is different from the last five insofar as it didn't involve governmental interference. In the meantime we want kids to be in the classroom. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. D. Thorne: By the minister's own admission, the bill that brought us to this crisis is not needed.

Leader- ship is also about admitti ng mistakes and learning from experience, but every interaction that this gov-

566 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 ernment has had with teachers has been confronta- tional. In 2004 this governme nt even overturned a Su- preme Court ruling in favour of the teachers' position on learning conditions. Does the Deputy Premier even begin to realize how using legislation to overturn the courts does nothing to help fix a broken bargaining system? Hon. M. de Jong: Surely this member realizes the trauma and uncertainty that accrues in the lives of teachers, students and their parents as they drift fur- ther and further into escala ting job action.

There was a choice, and we made it. We made it armed with a re- port from a fact-finder that many of the members op- posite have quoted from — som e of them favou rably , actually — which said there is absolutely no prospect of a settlement. We did so on the basis of 35 meetings that had taken place where the parties apparently couldn't even agree on getting a cup of coffee. I said at the outset that no one is happy about the fact that we're here, but it's time to settle this and move on, to use the good services of Mr. Ready and construct a negotiating framework that stands some prospect of succeeding. J.

Horgan: This government is so concerned about class size that they've increased it right across the prov- ince. We've had confrontation in this province for the past four years, whether it be health care workers or whether it be teachers. Any organized group of indi- viduals in this province ha s seen nothing but contempt and ridicule from that side of the House. We had an election campaign where the result ma- terially altered what this world looked like, and we thought on this side of the House….

The public thought that the government had heard what the peo- ple had said — that they wanted balance, and they wanted support for people in communities. This gov- ernment rejected that. Here we are at the brink of the cliff as a result of this government's actions. Will the Minister of Labour stand in his place and agree to meet tonight with the B.C. Teachers Federa- tion, tomorrow morning with the B.C. Teachers Federa- tion, and resolve this dispute? Hon. M. de Jong: Well, it is a remarkable statement that the hon. member makes.

In dismissing, as he ap- parently does, the over 130 freely negotiated collective agreements, I think he does a real disservice to the working men and women who actually agreed of their own volition to those agreements. I've just had a meeting, and it was a candid and frank exchange. We certainly are prepared to continue that discussion, but as I said to the people at that meet- ing, it is difficult to have that discussion when the very people we look to, to set an example for students are breaking the law. That's not on, and that makes taking this discussion forward very, very difficult. [1440] Mr.

Speaker: Member has a supplemental. J. Horgan: I want to tell the minister about setting examples. I want to tell the minister about an individ- ual named Mark Neufeld. He 's a teacher in our com- munity. He's a constituent of mine. He's not an activist. He's not a radical.

He came to school on Wednesday morning, and he said to his cross-country team that he's been coaching for years: "I can't in good conscience continue to do this." He said to the basketball team that he coaches proudly: "I cannot continue to do this when the government that sits in this House disrespects and undervalues the work that I do." What did that man do? Wh at did that individual do? The example he set is that he started walking. He walked ten kilometres from Claremont School to this building to meet with the Pr emier. That's an example that I would be proud to show my children. Not yours. Mr.

Speaker: Has the member got a question? J. Horgan: My question is to the Minister of Labour. I would rather have the kids in my house look to Mark Neufeld for leadership than Gordon Campbell. Where is the Premier…? Mr. Speaker: Member. Member. Listen, please. Member, you know the rules. J. Horgan: I apologize to the Premier for that comment. My question is to the Minister of Labour. Mark Neufeld walked to this place. He has been outside for 24 hours wanting to meet with the Premier so that the Premier will show leadership in this issue. The ques- tion is: where is the Premier to talk to this individual? Hon.

M. de Jong: First of all, I appreciate the pas- sion and commitment that teachers like Mr. Neufeld bring to their profession on a daily basis. That is why the Minister of Education ac tually did meet with him. There is no doubting that these are difficult, complex and at times vexing issues that we have to deal with, as they have been over the better part of a decade and a half at least. But I am still awaiting a clear indication from the critic, from the government benches, about where he and his caucus stand. Do they stand for a society governed by the rule of law?

Or do they stand for the proposition that we have laws that you simply pick which ones you want to abide by and…? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Minister, just wait a second. Members. Continue, minister. Hon. M. de Jong: I do detect a growing feeling of discomfort on the opposition benches, because it is a difficult question to answer. Is it about abiding by the rule of law or, when a friendly organization is in- volved, simply looking the other way? On this side of the House, we stand irrevocably beside the right of students to be in the classroom getting an education.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 567 J. Kwan: Conflict and confrontation is the approach that this government has chosen. The government ripped up collective agreem ents in 2002. This govern- ment stripped teachers of a self-governing body in terms of their ability to govern themselves in 2003. This government overturned a ru ling of the B.C. Supreme Court to strip classroom support conditions from the bargaining table in 2004. My question is to the Attorney General: is it one law for the teachers or a di fferent law for this govern- ment? Which is it? [1445] Hon. S.

Bond: We believe class size is so important that we enshrined it in legislation with caps and flexi- bility for school districts. We've also said that while we believe class size is absolutely essential, and it is impor- tant we have those discussion s, teachers need to be at the heart of those discussions. But there is a role for parents and trustees and peo- ple who are involved in the lives of children every day in our schools to be involved in the discussion about class size.

That's why we're going to create a perma- nent learning round table — to have those meaningful discussions to make sure that today we're saying to the B.C. Teachers Federation: come and sit and talk with us. Help us determine the te rms of reference. Help us work together, but please, mo st importantly, let's keep our students in classrooms. J. Kwan: Let's just be clear. This Liberal government overruled a court ruling by legislation, using the legisla- tive hammer when it was convenient for them. They will change the law just like that, because it is politically convenient for them.

Then they want to ask questions, a n d t h e n t h e y w a n t t o c a s t a s p e r s i o n s b y p o i n t i n g f i n - gers and creating an escalati ng crisis today that will actually cause law-abiding citizens to engage in an ac- tivity that they may not want to but are forced to do.

I want to ask a question to the Deputy Premier: why is it so convenient for them to overturn a law when it suits them, when instead they could have chosen an alternate course — a course that would actually bring people to- gether and ask the teachers, ask the educators, ask the school trustees, ask the people who have an interest in education, in improving education, to come to the table to address the issue of class size and class composition? Why didn't they choose that alternative and instead chose to break the law by overruling it? Hon. S. Bond: First of all, let's make it clear.

There has always been an avenue to have a discussion about class sizes. The difference has been… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. S. Bond: …that the union has suggested that the only place to talk about class size is at the bargain- ing table. We disagree. We want to now create…. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. S. Bond: We would like now, as I have just mentioned, to create a learning round table. We want to find a way to have that meaningful discussion. But let's make it perfectly clear. What we're really waiting for here is to talk about leadership.

Let's see the Leader of the Opposition stand with us today and say that this would be illegal and that we want you to stand beside us and keep students in classrooms. ACCESS TO NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS FOR INCOME ASSISTANCE RECIPIENTS C. Trevena: William Duboise is a resident of Campbell River who is waiting for a lung transplant. Mr. Duboise receives a person-with-disabilities benefit and has applied to the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance to provide him with a monthly nu- tritional supplement. The cost for these supplements is $165 a month. His doctor says Mr.

Duboise's life will be endangered without them. The ministry has denied this request. The reason? The administrator disagrees with the doctor's assess- ment. I would like to ask the Minister of Employment and Income Assistance: why can administrators overrule doctors on what are potentially life-and-death cases? Hon. C. Richmond: I thank the member for her question. I am not familiar with this situation, so if you would please provide me with the information, I would be glad to bring an answer back to you and to this House. Mr. Speaker: Member, it was kind of taken on no- tice. Do you have a different question?

C. Trevena: I do, thank you very much. Thank you for saying that. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. I know of other cases. I would like to know whether, on principle, bureaucrats get a bigger voice than doctors on certain cases. [1450] Hon. C. Richmond: I think the member is aware that I cannot talk about indivi dual cases in this House, and if she has other instances, I would like to hear about them. We evaluate every request for assistance on its own merits, and virtually no one is turned away when they're in a time of crisis. GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR SOCIAL HOUSING D.

Routley: Recent reports point to the reality that homelessness is growing in both urban and rural communities. Thousands of British Columbians are slipping below the waves, but the Premier is planning to eliminate the provincial housing program by '07-'08,

568 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 a program that has created 7,800 units since its creation in 1994. My question is to the Minister for Housing. Will the minister explain to this House why such a successful program is being cut and why plans to address the need for increased social housing have been put off for another year? Hon. R. Coleman: That is not the case. We are not cutting a social housing program. As a matter of fact, this government has done more for social housing in four years than the previous government did in ten. Let's be aware of something.

The opportunity ex- isted for the previous government from 1990 to 2001 to do something about the SAFER program to help sen- iors in British Columbia — ignored them completely for ten years. We stepped up to the plate, and we have 7,700 more seniors eligible for support in the province just from our SAFER adjustments alone. The Premier's Task Force on Homelessness is al- ready announced and has committed $20.6 million in provincial funding for 533 units in 12 housing devel- opments across the province for homelessness.

We are working on a provincial housing strategy that will be so exciting and so good for people on the ground that you'll see more and more people being assisted by this government than any time in history. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The member has a supplemental. D. Routley: Yes. I think we're supposed to bring a new tenor to the House, not only comedy. Last week a fire broke out in an abandoned build- ing in Duncan where a number of homeless people were living.

Like many people on our streets, including those caught in the Duncan fi re, the lack of housing is intimately linked to mental health and addiction issues. In Vancouver alone, 750 people with mental illness are on the wait-list for supportive housing. It is estimated that two-thirds of the homeless in Vancouver experi- ence drug addiction and mental health issues. Will the Minister for Housing commit to increasing the number of supportive housing units for people with mental illnesses? Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, what happened in Duncan was absolutely a tragedy.

We are willing to work with that community to address the issues of homelessness in Duncan. Unfortunately, at the UBCM last week it was one of the communities that did not come to see me about housing as an issue that they wanted to talk about in their community, although a substantial number of communities did. We've com- mitted to those communities to find ways for innova- tive practices to go into smaller and medium-sized communities for housing issu es for them in the long term. That work is underway already, as a result of our discussions at UBCM.

In addition to that, like I said, we've already given 533 units of commitment in 12 housing developments across the province, including Vancouver, Nanaimo, Surrey, Victoria, Kelowna, New Westminster, Prince George, Terrace and Fort St. John. There's nobody in any community in the province who should ignore the issues of homelessness, mental health and addictions. When we talk about homelessness in the prov- ince… Mr. Speaker: Thank you, minister. Hon. R.

Coleman: …the first piece of leadership has got to come from here and that we tell communi- ties: "Don't be afraid to stand up and not be NIMBYs and support projects in your communities so we can help the people at risk in your community." [1455] GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR LOW-INCOME SENIORS R. Chouhan: Emelda Bain-Parten is a 78-year-old resident of Burnaby-Edmonds. Recently she was taken to hospital in an ambula nce. Somewhere between the ambulance and the hospital, her dentures were re- moved to insert tubes. Somehow her dentures were lost. Instead of replacing her dentures, the government bought her a blender.

To the Minister of Health: is this the way to treat B.C.'s seniors? Hon. G. Abbott: I appreciate the member raising the issue. It's the first I've heard of it. If he would like to provide me with the details of it, we would be very happy to see if we can assist. I think one of the things we should not do, though — although I know some members opposite are prone to it — is try to blame a great health system for unfor- tunate events that sometimes occur in it. Clearly, there are thousands of people in our health care system who care deeply not only about the seniors that they see.

They care de eply about all the patients that they see. Every day they make difficult, sometimes heart-wrenching decisions about health care, and I support those people. I will not presume of any person who works in the health care system or, actually, any- where in government that they operate with any bad intent. I am sure that something unfortunate has hap- pened here. Mr. Speaker: Thank you, minister. Hon. G. Abbott: The member should not presume that the system is against that person. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. R.

Chouhan: Also, for the information of the Minis- ter of Health, I do come from the health care industry. I

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 569 know how health care workers work there, how they take care of the elderly and the patients every day. Imelda is a low-income senior. She cannot afford new dentures. Because she cannot eat solid food, she lost a significant amount of weight. In fact, she was so weak from her liquid diet that she is now down to 80 pounds. My question is to the minister. What are you doing to make sure that low-income seniors are getting the care that they need? Hon. G. Abbott: Again, I'll thank the…. Mr. Speaker: Minister, could you wait to be recog- nized. Hon. G.

Abbott: I'm sorry. I apologize. I was so eager to respond to this question, I may have got ahead of myself. So I apologize for that, Mr. Speaker. The issue, again, is an im portant one. If the member would be so kind as to forward to me the details about this particular lady's situation, I would be glad to see what we can do for her. What I will not do is attempt to politicize the cir- cumstances of an individual and try to draw conclu- sions about a whole system, as regards that. We have done a lot of things. I'm tremendously proud of what this government has done for seniors.

I'm tremen- dously proud of the Independent Living B.C. program that benefits thousands and thousands of seniors across this province. I'm tremendo usly proud of the Fair Pharmacare program that ensures that frail elderly who need the support get it. Finally — because I know we're running out of time — I'm tremendously proud of the recent changes in the SAFER program which, as the Minister for Housing pointed out, benefit thousands and thousands and thousands of seniors in British Columbia. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Hon. R.

Coleman: I have the honour to present the annual report of the Forest Appeals Commission, 2004. [1500] Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In this chamber, I call continued second reading debate on Bill 12 and in Committee A, for the information of members, continued estimates debate on the Ministry of Community Services. Second Reading of Bills TEACHERS' COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT ACT (continued) R. Chouhan: I rise to oppose Bill 12. Like many of my colleagues, I, too, come from a family of teachers.

I have a sister, Jaswan Chouhan, who was a teacher all her life, and later on she became the principal of a sen- ior secondary school. I have a sister-in-law, Jaginder Chouhan. She was also a teacher and became principal later on. She was appointed as director of education system. I have a sister-in-law who teaches in Burnaby, Toni Grewal. They all teach. They're all in this profes- sion because they love teaching; they love students. Teaching is a very noble and respectful profession, but by introducing Bill 12, this government once again has shown a total disrespect for teachers and their rights.

Yesterday we heard from the Minister of Educa- tion, and the Minister of La bour on Monday, that they took no pleasure from introducing Bill 12. Well, if that's the case, if they're not happy, then do the simple thing: withdraw Bill 12. Utilize ot her options that are avail- able. Negotiate in good fait h with the BCTF, but don't sit here and pretend that you have tried. We know you have not. The government may say that there were 35 differ- ent meetings with the bargaining committee of the B.C. Teachers Federation. For the last 18 years I have done lots of bargaining.

I have done lots of collective bar- gaining negotiations in the last 18 years with the health care employers. I have taught hundreds of students in the last 18 years how to negotiate a collective agree- ment. One can have hundreds of meetings, but if your bargainers don't have the mandate to negotiate a set- tlement, then obviously no number of meetings would produce the desired result. Time and again teachers have asked the govern- ment to meet students' need s. Teachers need adequate resources. The teachers' message is very clear. When the size of a class is so larg e, they cannot attend to all students.

When students bring home the homework without proper class instructions, the parents are left with spending extra time with the children to complete their homework. God forbid if parents are not familiar with the subject. The student's education suffers even further. I'm a parent. For many years I was the vice- president of the parents advisory council at the Cari- boo Secondary School in Burnaby. I know how hard the teachers work. What do they get in return?

Longer hours, lesser resources and a total lack of respect from the government. [1505] Teachers have rights like anybody else, and those rights must be respected. The government tries to claim that it respects teachers, but how could that be when their rights are trampled upon? Show them that you truly value their work — not the platitudes. If we want our children to get the best education, if we are serious about the future of our chil dren, then let the teachers have the necessary tools.

In 2002 government legislation stripped learning and working conditions from the teachers' collective agreement and now refuses to deal with them. The government demands that teachers stay in the class- rooms and continue to upho ld the high standards. How can that be possible? Despite the deteriorating working conditions, the teachers have done everything

570 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 to maintain the high standa rds, but they cannot keep doing it forever. In 2001 legislation was passed declaring B.C. teach- ers an essential service. The government changed the definition of essential service at that time.

The previous definition was: "Necessary or essential to prevent im- mediate and serious danger to the health, safety or welfare of the residents of British Columbia." But to meet its political agenda, the government changed the definition to state: "The minister may direct the Labour Relations Board to designate as essential services those facilities, productions and se rvices that the board con- siders necessary or essential to prevent immediate and serious disruption to the provision of educational pro- grams." No other province has this kind of broad definition.

In fact, no other province considered teachers as essen- tial services. The ILO and the United Nations have found this legislation to be in violation of international standards to which Canada is signatory. Over the last four years this government has closed 113 schools and has laid off over 2,500 teachers. The government tried to justify it by saying that the student enrolment was down, and th erefore fewer schools and fewer teachers were needed. Let's go over the facts.

In my hometown, Burnaby, between the 2001 and 2002 school year and the 2003 and 2004 school year, studen t enrolment was reduced by 1.9 percent. But in cont rast, the counsellors were reduced by 8.1 percent, ESL teachers by 17.6 percent, special education teachers by 11.8 percent and teacher- librarians by 9.1 percent. Te achers were reduced by 6.1 percent. These are the facts. This figure comes from the Ministry of Education itself. Mr.

Speaker, you can see clearly what this govern- ment has done to the education system, but this gov- ernment is saying that all that was done to enhance the public education system. The government should be ashamed of what it has done . The facts speak for them- selves. Over the last few days the government mem- bers have been falling all over each other to claim how much they value teachers, but the reality is different. [1510] Let's see how the teachers see this. Listen to what the teachers in Burnaby are sa ying. This is a letter from one of the teachers in Burnaby.

It says: "Last year I had 31 kids in my grade four class. It wasn't just hard; it was impossible to get around and help each child with their needs during lessons. I even had to set up a take- a-number system." Another teacher: "More behaviour students are incorporated into larger classes. Each student gets less attention than they need. The students and I become frustrated.

More exciting, hands-on lessons would be appreciated, but lack of room, materials, resource assis- tants — that's learning assistants — and librarians make it more difficult." Another science teacher tells us: "The lab space is set up for 28 students, but now students are crowded three to a bench. It's a safety issue." I have a lot more letters and statements from teachers. Each one of them is telling me how difficult it has become to teach and how concerned they are about the ability of students to learn. All of the teachers want a negotiated settlement.

The government should withdraw Bill 12 and man- date the BCPSEA to negotiate with our educators in good faith. The government should start respecting the free collective bargaining process. This government did enough damage to free collective bargaining in 2002 when it introduced Bill 29. That was the bill which took away the rights of health care workers. Through Bill 29, the government ripped up a truly negotiated collective agreement between the health care workers and their employers. That agreement was accepted and ratified by over 82 percent of the he alth care employers.

But this government did not care then, and it does not care now. By doing what the Liberals are trying to achieve through Bill 12, they may pl ease their rich corporate friends, but they will not help any student — or parent, for that matter. Priorities of this government are wrong. They can find millio ns for their rich corporate friends, but they have no money for more textbooks, special needs teachers, librarians and ESL teachers. This government has millions for its rich corporate friends but no money for decent wages for workers.

If this government is really serious about helping stu- dents, then it must withdraw Bill 12. In 2002 the provincial government legislated a ma- jor stripping of the teachers' collective agreement, re- moving significant provisions that set limits for class sizes and established staffing ratios for the provision of specialist teachers. It made it illegal for teachers to bar- gain class size, class composition or staffing formulas in the future. Now the government is pretending to fix a broken bargaining process.

The bargaining process is broken because Liberals broke it. [1515] The government has said it wants to make B.C. the best-educated, most literate jurisdiction on the conti- nent, but on the other hand, the government has re- duced the teacher-librari ans. Between 2002 and 2004, according to the Minister of Education, teacher- librarian staffing declined by 25 percent. International research has shown a consistent correlation between school libraries, subject learning and information liter- acy. How do all these cuts pu t the students first?

If the Premier is really serious about making B.C. the best- educated and most literate jurisdiction, then he will instruct his government to withdraw Bill 12 and return to the teaching and learning conditions that existed in 2002, prior to the contract being stripped of those pro- visions by legislation. What we need is leadership — leadership that would truly enhance public ed ucation, not continue on the path of confrontation. We need the government to recognize that it had made a mistake in 2002, and now is the time to rectify it by engaging in meaningful and good-faith bargaining — not through Bill 12.

Bill 12 is a recipe for disaster. It will not foster har- monious relationships between the teachers and the school boards, between teachers and the students or

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 571 parents. Maybe that is what this government wants — to create a wedge between the teachers, students and parents. The time has come for this government to stop being cynical and start treating teachers as profession- als. Teachers are concerned about the learning abilities of their students. That's why teachers talk about class composition. Why do they do it? Let me read from information that I received fr om a teacher on this issue of class composition. It all goes back to the inclusion of students with special needs.

Students with mild to severe disabilities were in- tegrated into regular classrooms following a government policy change 16 years ago. Almost immediately teachers noted that they had to change their teaching if classes in- cluded students with severe intellectual or physical dis- abilities or disruptive behaviour. The expectation that came with inclusion was that the teacher would teach ac- cording to the individual education plan for the student with special needs. That changed the dynamic of the teaching of the class.

It became more like teaching several classes at the same time, but trying to keep things going in one direc- tion at the same time. That's a tougher job. It means more preparation, more time spent in meetings with specialists and parents, time required to plan with the special edu- cation assistant if you're lucky enough to get one. But be- yond that is the increased complexity of meeting the needs of an increasingly diverse group of students. That's why teachers talk so often about class com- position as their biggest challenge. They support inclu- sion if they have the support to make it work.

In the extensive tearing-up of the teachers' collec- tive agreement in 2002, not only were upper limits on class size removed, but the class composition clauses were also eliminated. That opened the door for much more difficult situations for both teachers and stu- dents. Students with special needs had less support. At the same time, attention to the other students in the class was reduced. That 's what teachers faced when they had to deal with more special needs with less additional support.

Eliminating the contract pro- visions had a negative impact on the teaching and learning conditions. [1520] This government is responsible for breaking the system. The government has created unnecessary fear in the public's mind that the system is so unworkable that we have to bring in the law. But the public is not fooled. People understand who's responsible for that. British Columbians expect this government to show leadership, to come forward with a meaningful solu- tion, not confrontation.

It's about time this gove rnment extended a hand of friendship to the teachers, to our educators, to show them that they really are concerned about the students and the parents. Sit down with those teachers and their organization, the B.C. Teache rs Federation, and negoti- ate a collective agreement in good faith. Stop playing these games. What we need is a meaningful gesture on the part of the government, not platitudes. The time has come for the government to show leadership, for the Premier to stand up for education, for the public education sys- tem, and do something about it.

I sincerely ask and am hopeful that the government will withdraw Bill 12 and engage itself in negotiations. G. Coons: I rise, as well, to discuss and debate sec- ond reading of Bill 12. This occasion is one that I'm not proud to be in- volved with. We have just witnessed another blatant attack against our teaching workforce and, I may add, the day after we recognized World Teachers Day. This is a sad day for students, a sad day for parents and a devastating day for teachers all across this great prov- ince. We have the greatest education system in this prov- ince.

We have the best education system in the world and the most dedicated group of stakeholders that we'll find anywhere. Our teachers, our valued teachers- on-call, are the most hard-working, conscientious and devoted group of professionals that you'll ever find. Their commitment to curricu lar and extracurricular activities is renowned th roughout the province and throughout Canada. Teachers work with and educationally challenge our most valuable resource, our children. Parents put their trust and their faith in educators to shape and mould their children as they embark on a life-long journey of learning.

Trustees put their lives on the line to strive for the best education system for their respec- tive districts. I thank an d I compliment all trustees throughout the province for this difficult task. Parent advisory committees realize the importance of a well-rounded school that has the necessary fund- ing to make the school the best it can be. I thank all parents for their dedication to this end. Students throughout the province th row their hearts and souls into their own learning curve, whatever that may look like. They come in all different sizes and shapes, so much alike yet so different and unique.

One thing that all these st akeholders expect is that the government of the day will adequately fund our education system and work with our teaching force, not against them, so we can continue to improve edu- cation for our students. This government has let down parents, students and teachers. This is a sad day for all those concerned about quality education. There was an opportunity for progress in this dis- pute, but this government chose confrontation and the option that will not effect any change in working con- ditions in the classrooms. That is shameful.

This gov- ernment could have chosen the path to discuss learning conditions but decided deliberately, in a seemingly preconceived plot, to go straight ahead in another forced settlement. It's yet another imposition, an impo- sition that will only create conflict and chaos in our education. [1525] So why are we here today? The symbol of this gov- ernment, Bill 12. The inability of the government…. It's a symbol of this government's incompetence to work with all of the stakeholders involved in our system and to bargain in good faith for an agreement that works

572 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 for British Columbians — one that would enhance and better learning conditions for students, one based on free collective bargaining where both sides sit down and discuss the issues to create an education system that works for students and for teachers, one that re- duces confrontation and is based on listening and re- spect. This government had the opportunity to do this, and they blew it. Teaching is a proud profession, and I'm so pleased t o h a v e s o m a n y e d u c a t o r s i n t h e g a l l e r y t o d a y .

I t ' s a proud profession, where educ ators can positively in- fluence the lives and learning of their students, watch- ing children gain that confid ence, grow in their skills. Seeing the growth, the maturi ng into young adults, is something that makes it all worthwhile. I know that feeling. I've been a proud member of the British Columbia Teachers Federation for 27 years. That is one of the many, many reasons that I'm in these chambers today.

I not only witnessed a government that treated teachers without dignity and respect; I experienced a government that intimidated, chastised and bullied teachers at every opportunity. As we all know, we're all taught to challenge and confront those who bully. How did we get here? Through this government's draconian ideology that we need to manipulate and control working people. In August 2001 Bill 18 was enacted. This declared educa- tion an essential service, which normally is reserved for where the life, safety or heal th of the population is at risk, as in hospital, police or fire services.

But don't misunderstand me. Education is very, very important, but it is definitely not an essential ser- vice. B.C. is one of the only jurisdictions, if not the only jurisdiction, in the world where education is essential, thus eliminating a key component of free collective bargaining: the right to strike. This violation of fundamental rights, which are respected in democracies worldwide, was chastised by the International Labour Organization, which stated that this Liberal government should abide by interna- tional law.

The ILO is a United Nations agency that sets international standards for labour relations, and Canada is a signatory to that. The ILO is not a union- run organization. It's jointl y run by representatives of government, business and la bour, and promotes inter- nationally recognized human and labour rights. The ILO condemned this Liberal draconian legislation and recommended this bill be repealed. On January 27, 2002, Bills 27 and 28 were enacted. These, once again, were co ndemned by the ILO. These had devastating effects in schools, in classrooms throughout the province.

Bill 27 imposed a contract on teachers with a raise of 2.5 over each of three years, but this government refused to fund the forced deal, result- ing in millions and millions of dollars that were downloaded onto school districts. Recently on CKNW our Premier blamed local school boards for the ballooning class sizes, thus dis- avowing any responsibility. That's shameful.

This week I had a local trustee from school district 52 contact me and demand that I bring this to the attention of the House and let our Premier know that it's not school b o a r d s t o b l a m e ; i t i s t h i s g o v e r n m e n t a n d h o w t h e y are defunding our education system. This downloading resulted in 2,600 teachers laid off, where only 700 of them can be attributed to the infamous declining enrolm ent. And 113 schools shut down in communities all over the province, mostly in rural communities.

The ILO in dicated to this govern- ment that contract imposition, again, violates basic human rights and that "a un ilateral action by authori- ties cannot but introduce uncertainty in labour rela- tions, which in the long term can only be prejudicial." [1530] What do we see today, 3½ years later? We see that uncertainty in this province, and this government is to blame. The government was warned, and they ignored that warning. It did not stop there.

Bill 28 removed provisions from negotiated contracts that limited class sizes, guaranteed supports for students with special needs and set standards of service from trained special- ist teachers. In other words, this government ripped up contracts that dealt with student learning conditions. The results? The results were devastating to students and to teachers. The impact on first nations students and on aboriginal programs and services throughout this province was severe: programs axed, first nations support workers laid off as school districts tried to meet the government's bottom line. [H.

Bloy in the chair.] We certainly do ne ed a new relationship in this prov- ince. Class sizes ballooned as the Liberals boasted that class size was enshrined in their legislation. I'll tell you what was enshrined: class sizes of 22 for kindergarten and 20 for grades one to three. It sounds reasonable, but there was no consideration, no regard for class composition and the number of children in those classes with special needs. For grades four to 12 the enshrined class size wasn't a class size; it was a district average of 30 students.

So a class with 22 students in one portion of the district could be countered with a class of 38 in another — as long as the average was 30. And again, no regard for class composi- tion. Special needs support was drastically slashed as this contractual language gleefully ended up on the Liberals' cutting floor. There was a 28-percent reduction, with 740 fewer special education support positions over the last few years, and that's wrong. That's wrong. Also cut were trained special education teachers by 17½ percent and teacher-librarians by 23 percent. We saw them in the galleries the other day.

English-as-a-second- l a n g u a g e t e a c h e r s w e r e c u t b y 2 0 p e r c e n t . A n d h o w d i d our Premier react to this tremendous blot on Canada's reputation where he and his Liberal gang violated fun- damental rights? He felt "no pressure whatsoever" to bring our province into compliance with an international convention to which we are all a signatory. Liberal government officials characterized the accu- sations as frivolous. Teachers in this province, workers in this province, all those who believe in fundamental rights: we do not find ripping up contracts, forcing an

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 573 end to legal job action and gutting positions that up- hold quality of education to be frivolous in the least — not at all. I've seen the changes. I've seen the frustrations. I've shared the stories with thes e teachers, with those dedi- cated teachers on call, the parents, the administrators, the support staff in our school s. More importantly, I've seen it on the faces of our kids. It's not going to get any better with the introduction of Bill 12. It will only cre- ate more problems.

Now I was going to talk more about my experience in the school system and the exhilaration I feel working with kids. I was going to share some of my experiences of teaching at Kaien Island Alternate School in Prince Rupert, where I was the head teacher for five years and worked there for six years, but that was one of the schools in our district that was shut down. That closed due to lack of provincial funding, sending the most vulnerable of our students to fend for themselves in a system that cannot meet their needs. I don't think I'm going to tell my story just yet.

I've been cut off before, and I don't want to be cut off, so I might come back to me, but this is not about me. This is more about teachers that have contacted me, and I'd like to share a few of them from my own riding and my constituency. I have a primary teacher, 20 years' ex- perience: "More students, more students with special needs. I no longer meet the needs of either the regular or special students. Currently there's a class of 21 in a K-one-two, a kindergarten-one-two class with 21 stu- dents and five IEPs. Bottom line: too many. Everyone is impacted negatively.

I long for the good old days when we had class size composition." Another teacher, all grades: "Classes overloaded with special needs students." Another teacher, a secon- dary teacher, 15 years' experience: "Class size and composition limit the effectiveness of my teaching practices. Some get left behind, and others are not chal- lenged enough. I look at too many kids. Composition horrendous." [1535] Here's an intermediate teacher in Prince Rupert, 25 years' experience.

They have "seven students with spe- cial needs: two in wheelchairs, one vision-impaired, one hearing-impaired, one phys ically handicapped with cerebral palsy, one with a behavioral learning problem, one learning disabled, one student with learning dis- abled pending. This is unfair to the children. They won't get another crack at grade six when the government finally decides to fund education properly. I have a teacher from Haida Gwaii who is teaching in a kindergarten-one-two-three class, a four-split class with 19 students: "The age and ability range is huge. The groups are huge.

I'm burning out." Another intermediate teacher on Haida Gwaii: "Students are suffering. So ar e teachers. Four grades in a classroom are too many. I'm trying to conduct a cir- cus rather than a learning environment. When we know this is what works, it seems criminal that we're not able to provide learning conditions and class com- position." I have one last one, a woman I know. She starts off: I'm the teacher that tries to remember the routines, the names, the students' needs and behaviours. I'm the teacher who gets the least respect. I am the lowly teacher on call.

Last year I was amazed at the number of times I would be asked to conduct a lesson and students had to share textbooks. I go into a classroom with 26 students, and seven are designated. I try to work with them, but it's very difficult. I do my best. Over the years since I've got my certification, which was 1999, I have not even gotten a toehold in the senior- ity list, and I'm thinking of changing jobs. I'm looking for a full-time job. I've just applied for a job as an office man- ager. If I can get $16 an hour, then I will be able to make more money than in my present job combined with EI.

I will — after six years of education and five years of sub- stitute teaching — finally, finally have some money in my pocket and a job. These stories are the stories that are occurring in all the classrooms throughout the province. These are not the stories we want to be te lling; these are the stories that must be told. This government, the members on the opposite side, had the opportunity to listen, to see for themselves and find out what was really happening in our schools. They chose, as we've mentioned…. As they've mentioned, they made a decision. They chose not to listen; they chose not to find out.

They had the opportunity to work with the recom- mendation of the fact-finder. They chose not to do that. They had the opportunity to engage with teachers and all education stakeholders in an effective and meaning- ful dialogue regarding the critical issue of class size and composition, and they chose not to do that. This government has made many choices, like the choice to give huge tax cuts to corporations instead of putting it into programs that support children. I believe these are the wrong choices, and this government must accept the blame. Bill 12 solves nothing. It will not get things better.

The hon. members on the other side had a real oppor- tunity to avoid conflict, to treat teachers with dignity and respect, to show balance, to sit down and work on solutions. They chose confrontation and disrespect. This is a sad day for quality education in our province. Just one note.

As draconian governments come and go, I know the resolve of great organizations through- out this province working together — organizations that respect contracts, that respect workers, that respect free collective bargaining — and I know that these or- ganizations will still be here advocating long and hard for justice long after this Liberal government is just a faded memory. That's what's going to happen. [1540] I pay tribute to all the workers in this province who have come under the wrath of this current government. I fear the battle has just begun. I hope common sense will prevail.

I plead with my colleagues on the other side: sit down, negotiate — not only with teachers but with all workers in this province. I'd like to take this opportunity to comment, as we've heard before, on a local Victoria teacher from Claremont Secondary School, Mark Neufeld, who I

574 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 talked to this morning with his spouse and his young child. I went out there as he was just seeing his wife and child for the first time, after he spent overnight, after walking ten miles to get here. He is camping out- side there because he has to do something. That's why we have 33 members on this side up here talking about Bill 12, talking about how, hopefully, it will get re- pealed. Hopefully, this government will come to their senses, because we have to do something about that for the education system in this province. Mr.

Neufeld tried to get a meeting with the Premier but to no avail. The Minister of Education did have a meeting with him, did chat with him, but he fears his message will not be heard. So I will relate his message on the public record to the hon. members on the other side and to all British Columbians out there listening. His message is: If you had a good public school teacher, if that teacher meant something to you, if you had a coach who meant something to you, do the right thing. Honour that we need class size and composition appropriate to meet the needs of students.

We want a better public education sys- tem, not to make it worse. As teachers, we try to tell our kids to do the right thing. We try to get them to believe that government functions properly, that we live in a democracy. Let's have British Columbia show some lead- ership. That was his message, and I totally agree with that. I'm optimistic about the future, but the future de- pends on what happens right he re in this Legislature.

I was pleased yesterday during question period when the Minister of Forests and Range, when questioned about softwood — and I would love to quote this from the Minister of Forests and Range — indicated: "We're going to be the ones that wi ll negotiate in good faith.

We're going to be the ones that will be honourable and accept the deals we make, and we'll stand up to and honour the deals we make" — and here's the clincher — "with the Americans in the future." Now, I am hopeful that not only will this govern- ment negotiate in good faith with the Americans but that they bring it back home and they negotiate in good faith right here in British Columbia.

I'm sure when the message gets out — that that's their stance as far as negotiating — that Liberal caucus members will reflect o n t h e s e w o r d s a n d b r i n g s o m e h o n o u r b a c k t o o u r province and begin to negotiat e in good faith, not only with teachers across the province but with all British Columbians. Now I can get back to me. When I first started teaching, I taught in the special class in 1977 in Prince Rupert. I had a class of ten kids. My job description was: do whatever you want, but we don't want to see these kids.

I was a first-year teacher, and I was in that school, actually, longer than I'm spending in this Legis- lature. I come to this Legi slature about seven in the morning and leave about 8:30 or nine at night. I was leaving my school at 11 o'clock at night. My closest and best friends were the custodians. I travelled around from classroom to classroom, finding out what teaching wa s about. I look back on those days with a lot of honour and dignity, because I had kids, and I started to integrate them. They were just normal kids, but they couldn't handle it in a regu- lar classroom.

I started to say: "Well, maybe they can be in the shop class or the PE class," or whatever, and then all of a sudden they were all farmed out — integrated into classrooms — and I nearly did myself out of a job, except they kept sending more in. [1545] As we developed through the years, we had more and more kids being integrated into the school system, and teachers accepted that. We negotiated in those times, in those days, acro ss the province with our school districts. We sat across the table and said: "This is what's good for education.

This is what's good for students." We negotiated language that dealt with class size and class composition. We said, "If you have a class of 27 to 28 kids, then three students with special needs would be appropri- ate," and we all agreed, because it worked, because we could take the time and the energy. When you have 30 kids in the classroom — and it's an hour class, if you're teaching at a secondary school — you do whatever you need to do in the front, do a bit of a lesson, and you may have 20 or 30 minutes left to deal with 30 kids.

When I was back at Char les Hays Secondary School last year teaching math 9, I had 31 kids in school and about seven, eight or nine of them really needed extra help and support. How much time did I have? I had maybe less than a minute with each student. Now, if I was distracted because somebody needed a couple of more minutes, then there was a handful of students that did not get any of my attention that day, and that's shameful.

That cuts right to the heart when you know that there are students in th ere that want the help, that need the support, but you just can't get to them be- cause you've got a handful of others that are taking up the time. They should be in classrooms where their needs are being met. I went to Prince Rupert because I applied to be an alternate ed teacher, and after six or seven years I did make it. I made it to the top. I was at the Kaien Island Alternate School, and I was working with the best kids in the world, kids that don' t fit into a normal situation in a school.

Unfortunately — or in my case, fortunately — Prince Rupert has a high population of first nations students. My riding has the highest first nations popu- lation in the province. I resp ect their culture. It's so diverse, unique. I had a lot of good times working with students at the alternate school. It was shut down, as I mentioned. Students were distributed into the other high schools. One high school didn't have much sup- port, and the other school created an afternoon alter- nate class that these kids went into.

Lo and behold, when I came back to teaching after my stint as the president of the teachers union in Prince Rupert, I went back to this school, and I was assigned this alternate school position. I was just so pleased, because I was back at the top again, and that's where I want to be. But I went in there, and I had poor kids that didn't have the support, didn't have the services. They had me. I think back to that, and it was one of the most

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 575 challenging years of my 27 in the teaching profession. I had to do something about that. I worked long and hard to create a program, but it was so frustrating try- ing to fit these kids, these round pegs, into square holes, because the facility we had and operated for many, many years was shut down due to de-funding of education. I think back to James. James was the most challeng- ing student I've ever taught, and I loved him dearly. He would always come in, and the sign on him was don't argue with him, because he'll always win.

We'd go out in the hallway, and we 'd argue. He always won, but that was fine. I'm in lots of arguments, and I let some people win. But one day we had a fire in Prince Rupert. We lost an apartment building, and 50 people lost their homes. I was in the Salvation Army helping out at a building where stacks and stacks of clothes and furniture came in. I was volunteering my ti me, and the press came by. I wasn't even considering putting my name into the hat to get into politics. [1550] I was in that Salvation Army helping out and work- ing out. The press came along with the cameras.

They took a picture, and I said something. I don't know what I said. But the next day, James came running up to me and said: "Hey, Mr. Buttons. How are you doing?" On the screen they had my name as Gary Buttons. I can say that. It's not my real name. Okay. He laughed. Not only that, but he found out later on in months to come that I was putting my name into the ring. He was pretty astu te, and he was saying: "So you're running for the NDP. I can handle that. If you need any help, let me know." This was a student who came from five or six other school districts, passed around from classroom to class- room.

Nobody could deal with him; nobody could handle the situations. Nobody had a designation for him. He needed serious help , and he was not getting it in the school system. I felt so frustrated. On ou r TV sy s tem u p north they do a we ek in re- view. About five days later they replayed me again, and he comes in Monday and says: "Mr. Buttons, you were on there again last night." I think back to that. When I go back home tomorrow, I'm going to drop into…. Well, I guess the schools will be under different operations tomorrow.

But I'm going to give James a call and just let him know that I'm thinking about him, because that's what teachers do. They try; they try to make a difference. Over my 27 years I feel that for at least 22 or 23 years, I have been making a difference. There are many teachers I work with right now who I actually taught — lo and behold — and that's difficult. But I'm proud to say that teachers do make a difference. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] But it's frustrating. It's frustrating when we look at what's happened in this Legislature over the last four years, what's happened with teachers' contracts.

I hope that this Legislature looks at Bill 12, decides to pull it, and works with teachers an d works with stakeholders throughout the province. D. Cubberley: I j u s t w a n t t o t h a n k t h e m e m b e r f o r North Coast for sharing his comments with us and those from the heart. I think all of us have had the experience of teachers who have made a difference in our lives. Just listening to the member's comments about his own ex- perience, it sounds to me as though he did make a differ- ence in a lot of lives.

Having been one of those kids who was round when the holes were square, I benefited from a couple of teachers who I guess recognized some innate capability of some kind that didn't necessarily show up on the standard grid and made some extra effort in my life. It has made a difference. I'm pleased today to have an opportunity to re- spond to Bill 12, which was introduced by the Minister of Labour and Citizens' Servic es earlier this week. It's a pretty bland name, and it belies the fact that this act terminates bargaining.

Not only does it not settle the dispute, as the explanatory note claims, but it risks prolonging and inflaming it further. Bill 12 is a short and deceptively simple act that arbitrarily extends a collective agreement that had long expired. In effect, it summarily puts an end to bargain- ing between the BCTF and the government's agents, the British Columbia Public School Employers Associa- tion. This act can only be seen as an insult to the collec- tive bargaining process.

It will, I think with justifica- tion, be seen as further injury to the teachers of British Columbia who were already aggrieved by govern- ment's reckless actions in 2002. [1555] I know that the Minister of Labour took pains to characterize the collective bargaining process as non- existent, dysfunctional, broken — whatever other term could be conscripted to legi timatize the government's actions — I think coming at a point which the govern- ment had long planned to get to, at least judging by the absence of efforts to make positive overtures to teach- ers over the course of a year and a half.

I'm not just referring to the orchestrated nature of the public ad campaign that the government unleashed, coincident with its introduction of th e legislation to suspend bar- gaining, a step it took with out bothering, I think, to reflect deeply or publicly on the content or the implica- tions of Mr. Connolly's fact-finding report, not just his conclusions, and a step it took without accepting re- sponsibility for engineering the impasse that Mr. Con- nolly's report merely confirmed, and which I think should have led to sober re flection rather than draco- nian action.

I want to highlight a couple of points touching on the way in which government as an employer created, through its actions or its inactions, the kind of stale- mate that was used in the end to justify the introduc- tion of the act. First was the very clear statement that due to the depth of feeling on the part of teachers about the im- portance of discussions and negotiations, not just about

576 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 wages but about working and learning conditions, that government needed to engage in a dialogue. A quote directly from Mr. Connolly: "As professionals deliver- ing the educational services to children in British Co- lumbia, teachers are seeking an opportunity to articu- late their thoughts and kn owledge on the learning conditions for students." Clearly, teachers wished and needed and deserved to be able to discuss working and learning conditions with their employer.

Just as clearly, the employer's representatives had firm instructions not to consider issues or proposals with respect to class size, class composition or access to appropriate supports such as teacher assistance. These had been deemed to lie out- side the collective bargaining process. As difficult as that is to understand or make sense of, they were deemed to lie outside the collective bargaining process.

Of course, there is no mechanism, currently, for teachers to discuss these ma tters outside of bargaining, nor any history of that occurring with this government, nor were there any overtures during negotiations as to how that could actually work. It's not clear why teach- ers should believe that even if it could occur, it could translate into meaningful changes if the results of those discussions weren't set down in some form that's actu- ally binding on school districts — like a collective agreement — as they had been in the past.

In this regard, the gove rnment is certainly being true to form, and that's not a compliment. Indeed, I think it was this government's paramount goal to sever not just the contract langua ge the BCTF had negotiated around class size from the existing agreement in 2002, but to sever any linkage between working and learning conditions and the process of negotiations.

It took uni- lateral action in 2002 to stri p the collective agreement, while it hoped to obscure what it was doing or soften it by mandating a 7.5 percent in crease to wages, which in turn, it substantially downloaded on to school districts, thereby ultimately worsening the very conditions the teachers' agreement had sought to protect against. Nice job, folks. It's a really cute trick, if you don't consider the bitter harvest that we're reaping today as an out- come of the seeds that were sowed by those acts in 2002.

The lack of respect shown teachers by the arbitrary removal of limits placed within their collective agree- ment began a poisoning of relations that continued during an entire term of office and carried right on through the last election campaign. We sometimes hear members opposite say — and I find without a great deal of conviction — that they respect teachers and the work they do.

But, you know, as our elementary school teachers taught us, in the end actions do speak louder than words — far louder. [1600] I heard the Minister of Education say this after- noon, for example, "We believe it's so important," — referring to class size limits — "that we enshrine them in legislation." We'll come back to that. Engendering a climate of disrespect — the shame- ful attempt to mislead parents into fearing that teachers were jumping to a strike vote the day after the election was over, something the Premier himself launched — isn't a productive accomplishment in management terms.

In industrial relations, if you care about out- comes, it's exactly what you're trying to avoid doing. You don't demonize the other guys. You don't provoke them. You know that your employees are your biggest asset and that they identify their work as deserving of dignity, however humble the work they do is. And they rightly expect you to demonstrate that you respect their commitment and their wo rk. The relationship in collective bargaining can never be about sticking it to your employees or provokin g them into doing things based on reactions — not if you're acting as stewards of the enterprise.

But confrontation with teachers and provocation around their issues and the bargaining relationship is something that this government is really passionate about — indeed, I believe, relishes. Never mind the words; look at the actions. The actions speak clearly.

The second thing the government, had it cared about outcomes in students' lives, would have reflected more deeply upon in Connolly's report is this state- ment: "The lack of dialogue on compensation led to a public media debate about the cost of proposals that only increased the tensio n and conflict between the parties and did not further understanding, clarity or opportunity to find agreement within a collective bar- gaining process." Now, to my ear, that's an indictment.

That lands the responsibility right at government's door, because it was this go vernment that called in the play that led to refusal to discuss compensation, and that at the same time chose to ramp up public emotion by circulating wild numbers that had nothing to do with tabled proposals — wild speculation used to whip up public emotions and misrepresent intentions. When a government who claims not to be involved at the table, despite defining what can and can't be discussed and calling in the plays, interferes in difficult negotiations by ramping up emotions, it can only make matters worse.

But that's apparently just what the gov- ernment intended to do. Government's responsibility for damaging the relationship isn't just a matter of gut- ting contract language nor just the injury of handing the employer the right to degrade working conditions by taking learning condit ion guarantees away from teachers. No, to my mind, it's the gross mismanage- ment of the system that flowed from governments do- ing all of that while off-loa ding costs onto school dis- tricts with capped budgets. The cost of the MSP premium hikes passed through to school districts.

Costs for teacher increases that weren't funded put into the legislated contract and downloaded onto school districts. Costs of inflation that every large program has on a year-over-year basis. Anybody who's worked in government at any level knows that there are increasi ng expenses due to infla- tion on an annual basis. You cannot deliver the same program every year with the same amount of money. You're reducing the program you're delivering if you aren't covering off inflation. But this government told

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 577 the school districts: "Be quiet. Eat those costs. Just go find efficiencies. Go away. Just do it." Well, economies in school services can rapidly trig- ger deteriorating conditions, and now the chickens have come home to roost. Thrusting those costs down onto the system, combined with the loss of class size controls, produces negative effects in schools across British Columbia. We often hear members opposite offer declining enrolment as the rationale for the reduction of 2,500 positions across B.C., and the closure of 113 schools certainly played a role.

There were jobs that went with the closure of schools, as did contracting funding in the decision to close schools. But the real driver was the new costs, the costs that resulted in higher class sizes and more demanding class composition. [1605] That's just a phrase that we say in here: "More de- manding class composition." On the ground, more de- manding class composition is the challenge that teach- ers face — and fewer supportive resources to deal with those needing special attention. You know, when I went to school, there wasn't a phrase "people needing special attention." It didn't exist.

As we will see, it is now a substantial portion of what teachers deal with in the classroom. That was the reason we lost nearly a quarter of our school librarians and why the remainder of our school librarians now spend more time doing clerical library work and less time teaching students how to use librar- ies — because school districts reluctantly cut librarians and support workers in order to shave budgets

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1006pm-03
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1006pm 03
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a0a0ac77a4b1e0218c560e4471aec6634474f655

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).