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October 20, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-20 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 20 October 2005 Jeudi 20 octobre 2005

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

FOODLAND ONTARIO

CRIME PREVENTION

FOODLAND ONTARIO

CRIME PREVENTION

FOODLAND ONTARIO

CRIME PREVENTION

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE REDUCTION WEEK

SUPPORT FOR

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

LONG-TERM CARE

TRANSPORTATION

HOSPITAL FUNDING

EDUCATION

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

INDUSTRIE FORESTIÈRE

GROWTH PLANNING

VISITORS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

HYDRO REBATES

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME

HYDRO REBATES

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

HYDRO REBATES

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTER'S EXPENSES

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

CRIME PREVENTION

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

FOREST INDUSTRY

CONTAMINATED PROPERTY

FOREST INDUSTRY

STEEL INDUSTRY

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

TOURISM

PETITIONS

CANCER TREATMENT

DRIVER PENALTIES

HEALTH SERVICES

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

DISABLED PERSONS

PARKING PERMIT PROGRAM

HEALTH SERVICES

GASOLINE PRICES

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

LONG-TERM CARE

TUITION

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

OPPOSITION DAY

FOREST INDUSTRY

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

FOODLAND ONTARIO

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): I rise to move that, in the opinion of this House, the government of Ontario should expand the Foodland

Ontario program to explicitly state the standards Ontario foods meet before they are placed on the market and develop a campaign to educate the public on those food safety and quality

standards.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Ms. Wynne has moved private member's notice of motion number 1.

Pursuant to standing order 96, Ms. Wynne, you have to up to 10 minutes.

Ms. Wynne: I rise enthusiastically today to speak to my resolution that we should, as a government, articulate the high standards observed by

our farm community, our agri-food business, and to move then to educate the public on the benefits of those high standards. That, I believe, is our competitive advantage in Ontario.

This resolution is born of my conviction that all of us in this House, and in Parliaments across the country, must acknowledge the importance of agriculture to

the well-being of Canada and must take direct action to improve the health of the agri-food industry.

There's a robust discussion, I acknowledge, between the agriculture sector and our Minister of Agriculture, our government. It's the stated goal of our ministry

to improve the market returns of Ontario agriculture and food producers. In fact, we acknowledged in the throne speech of last week that we must work with the federal government to improve safety

nets that support farm income, develop new branding and marketing strategies, and support research and development in agri-food.

Now, some of you may be wondering -- as a downtown Toronto MPP, it may seem a bit of a stretch for me to be taking on this cause. Indeed, it would be easy to

find many issues that, at first glance, have much more to do with the constituents of Don Valley West than the health of agriculture in Ontario. However, we all eat. Indeed, at the combined

federal, provincial and municipal town hall meeting in my riding last week, the plight of farmers and the state of our agri-food industry was not raised as an issue. But I believe that it is

important, because all of us who live in this city already have access to safe, fresh food, and I would contend that we take that access completely for granted. Those of us who don't live near a

rural community forget how our food is produced. I believe that the affluent among us, who have free access to this food, not only assume that we're going to have access to whatever food we want,

but that we will have access whenever we want it. The expectation of strawberries in January, for example, is a world removed from the reality of our grandparents, who ate fruit and produce in

season and in abundance, and then waited a full year to eat that produce again. We've moved very far away from that reality, and we assume that we can sustain that.

I believe that the Ontario farmers' Farmers Feed Cities campaign is a wake-up call to all of us who take our year-round abundance for granted. We take for

granted that progressive, multi-billion dollar industry, and we assume that because it's in place, it will always be in place. We forget that it contributes to the health and well-being of

Ontarians and to Ontario's economy, and that we need to support it, all of us across the province.

The other reason that it's critical for those of us in Toronto and in the GTA to pay attention to this issue is that we're living on some of the best

agricultural land in the world. The GTA's geographic characteristics qualified as part of the 5% of the Canadian land mass that's classified as prime agricultural land, and a portion of that is

part of the 0.5% of the Canadian land mass that qualifies as class 1 land under the Canada Land Inventory. There are over 34,700 jobs supported by GTA agriculture, with 4,621 farms producing over

$585 million in gross farm receipts. We have to remember that we're all here in this part of the country because of access to waterways and the abundance of great farmland. That's how we got

here.

I just want to acknowledge Deb Lethbridge from the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, who has joined us in the members' gallery. Thank you for being here.

So the health of our agri-food industry and the quality and safety of our food are as critical, if not as immediate, to a downtown Toronto MPP as they are to my

rural colleagues.

Now, there are many issues surrounding this current situation in which Ontario farmers find themselves, and I'm not pretending to put myself out as an expert,

nor do I speak for my colleagues in this Legislature who have first-hand experience and vast knowledge of the needs of farmers and the solutions that we must embrace.

My colleague the member for Perth-Middlesex has attempted to educate those of us in the Liberal caucus for the past two years. He has organized a farm tour for

our caucus in an attempt to bring the city mice to the country. I've attended both of those events, and I've had the privilege to see the complexity of modern farming. That's made it concrete to me

that we all have to take action. The motivation for bringing this resolution came from that process of thinking, what can I do as a city member?

Paul Mistele, vice-president of the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, points out in a recent speech that Ontario producers adhere to the highest production

standards, that consumers want more information about their food, and that they want that information to be more specific. There are jurisdictions in western Europe where consumers can get

extremely specific information about the fresh food they buy, including exact location of production.

I believe we should be doing everything we can to inform consumers about the vocabulary of food production. Does the average consumer know what's meant by terms

such as "organic," "free-range," or "grain-fed"? What are the health and safety standards that must be met by Ontario farmers? How are those standards different, higher, than those in other

jurisdictions?

In Korea there's an interesting program that started in 2003 called Rural-loving. It's a campaign to support the farmers, and trade federations, industry and

business are all working together. Under the program, farmers commit to producing safe agricultural products and consumers commit to buying domestically produced goods. We have the farmers' half of

that equation in place and I think we need to get the other half of the equation in place.

My colleague the member for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex, who will speak shortly, is herself a farmer, and speaking in this House in May of this year she contended

that consumers should not only prefer and demand Ontario products, but should understand why they want those products. That's what this resolution is about.

The Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs on October 18, in answer to a question about food safety, talked about the HACCP program, the hazard analysis

critical control points protocol. That allows us to know that our farm producers and food processors are following mandated safety procedures. The point here is that the general public doesn't know

about these standards, doesn't know what farmers are doing and how the benefits of what the farmers are doing affect us.

There are, of course, people who believe we should be holding farmers to even higher standards regarding pesticides and so on. We can't even have that

conversation, I believe, in the general public before we understand what the standards are now and what we're doing now. I'm looking for the education that would allow us to have that healthy

debate. Paul Mistele, again, observes the government's need to ensure that consumers get the information they need to make informed choices when buying food.

My prime motivation in bringing this resolution is my belief that a healthy farming culture is important to Ontario economically, socially, historically and

environmentally. Our roots in central Canada are in the ground, in the fields tilled by our grandfathers and uncles, supported by their wives, sisters and daughters. Many of us come from families

that worked on the land before they came to the cities and many of the newcomers to this country come from agrarian communities. There are community gardens all over this city because there are

people who have come to this country who understand working on the land. Our connection to our history can be traced through the fields of corn and wheat and the fences and barns that have defined

this countryside for seven or eight generations.

I believe that people who work on the land and who are dependent on it to at least some degree and who are dependent on the elements and who take responsibility

for preserving the environment because their livelihood depends on it are people we should cherish and support.

I hope all of you will support my resolution to encourage the government to develop a way to help Ontarians to understand clearly the benefits of buying Ontario

food, benefits that go beyond some sort of romantic sense of civic obligation, but benefits that are real to our health, the health of our children, the cohesion of the Ontario economy and the

long-term sustainability of our environment. Ronald Wright, in his ominous A Short History of Progress, warns us, "If civilization is to survive, we must live on the interest -- not on the capital

-- of nature."

I believe that in this particularly fertile corner of the world we inhabit it is our responsibility to preserve our natural environment, that it is our

responsibility to preserve our farming capacity. To that end, we need to understand more about the food we eat, the challenges of the farming business and the complexity of the rural economy. We

are all in this together. That's why my little, yellow city car has a licence frame that poses the Ontario Federation of Agriculture's question: "Did you eat today? Thank a farmer."

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I wish to speak to this resolution on Foodland Ontario. I will reiterate that Ontario has an

excellent reputation for producing safe and high-quality foods. OMAFRA's Foodland Ontario program already vigorously markets products aimed at not only increasing sales, but most importantly,

increasing profits for fresh produce. They work closely with retailers and industry groups in developing the kind of multimedia strategies that are so important.

Make no mistake, Ontario foods do meet high standards and that message should be relayed to consumers. It seems like we're spinning our wheels a bit debating

this resolution. There was an announcement at the plowing match a month or so ago. At that time, we in rural Ontario were underwhelmed, if you will, and have no reason to see this resolution as

maybe much more than a token gesture a month later. However, the estimates book -- the estimates committee is sitting now -- indicates that domestic recognition of the Foodland Ontario symbol will

decrease by 8% in the coming year. This is reason for concern.

There are statistics out there that show that, on average, people across Canada are consuming fewer fresh vegetables than they were last year. In fact, vegetable

consumption is now at its lowest level since 1992.

Art Smith, the CEO of the Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association, wrote a public letter to Agriculture Minister Dombrowsky asking for Foodland Ontario

to be enhanced:

"As you are aware, the Ontario fruit and vegetable industry is made up of over 125 different commodities with a total farm gate value in excess of $1 billion.

Many of the crops have some sort of regulated marketing system but the vast majority does not.

"The Foodland Ontario ... along with programs from both health and education should be used to educate people on the benefits of eating more fruits and

vegetables."

That connection, the poor eating habits -- we know the story on obesity, diabetes and certain forms of cancer. In his letter he goes on, outlining the millions

of dollars that are spent annually on health care costs and that much of that could be ameliorated or prevented through a better diet. As he says, "The benefits to all from healthy eating must not

be overlooked and ... Foodland Ontario can play a critical role."

Just to put this morning's discussion in context, Craig Hunter, who is also with the Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association, indicates that we've had a

bad year with many of the commodities. Weather has ruined thousands of acres through hail, drought, floods in some cases, disease and insect pressure. This is an ongoing problem for orchardmen.

Late plantings have an obvious effect on yields. In the Niagara area, very low temperatures in the past winter really hammered the grape and tender fruit area. In some cases, we're seeing some of

the lowest yields in over 30 years, although I can personally attest that the Porteus farm just north of me had excellent apples for sale. Apples did very well on many of their orchards and I

brought some of those apples into this building this week.

Growers face a double-edged sword, not only harsh weather but the unfair trade game played across our border. There is another issue with respect to the United

States. Oftentimes red tape, rules and regulations get in the way of farming. We certainly heard that from Ron Bonnett, with the OFA, at our meeting with John Tory at the plowing match.

Pesticide licensing, for example: The National Farmers Union indicated to us their concern that the Wayne Easter report not be shelved. There is one

recommendation in the Easter report that I quote: "Harmonization of licensing and registration with the US on pesticides." I hope the federal government goes forward on this, and Ontario has a role

to support this kind of harmonization. This would apply to veterinary drugs as well.

I feel an awful lot of work needs to be done with respect to PMRA, the pest management regulatory agency. Our horticulture producers are in a very competitive

environment. They are at a competitive disadvantage. They do not have access to the latest herbicides, insecticides and fungicides, and we suffer for that.

As we know, farmers in most sectors are in a crisis mode right now. They are looking to this government for some support on that risk management side. Our fruit

and vegetable, our horticulture guys are losing SDRM, the self-directed risk management program. They have put together a replacement that's called self-directed production insurance, something

endorsed by edible horticulture, by the OFA and by the Canadian federation. I hope the government will work with these farmers on this new production insurance program.

I have a question from Adrian Huisman, again with the fruit and vegetable growers: Where is the provincial government on the tender fruit, apple and grape

growers' revitalization plan? This is a plan -- we see this in British Columbia -- to assist orchardmen to haul out trees producing varieties of fruit that are not as popular with the consumer.

It's a strategic replant program. The fruit and vegetable people have a $300-million proposal before this government to be split three ways between the producers and the federal and provincial

governments.

I want to mention a new organization that has been formed, the Fresh Vegetable Growers of Ontario, the FVGO. I look forward to their work. Their mission is the

development, sale and export of our agricultural products. Their mission also includes education, the kind of consumer education that is so important, through Foodland Ontario. There are several

members on the board -- I'm very proud to say this -- from my riding, including Mary Shabatura and Martin Streef, up north of Burford. The FVGO has been established as a not-for-profit association

that looks after the specific needs of the unregulated vegetable producers, primarily the fresh market vegetables.

I leave this House with some questions. We have two other speakers on the docket this afternoon. Again, what about the availability of production insurance? What

about plant disease, the health issues, that need for harmonization? New kinds of products are used south of the border, the newly researched and developed products for which there is such a delay

for us to access. Why do our growers -- our apple growers, for example -- have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to attempt to get a fair NAFTA ruling on dumping? Again, there's that

concern about the buying power consolidation at the retail level, which puts the farmer at quite a disadvantage. Many fruit and vegetables -- certainly Niagara is very concerned about this

government's greenbelt policy.

I'll just leave us with some words from Len Troup, president of fruit and vegetable. "For too long Ontario farmers have been seen as providers of cheap, safe,

nutritious local food.... We have been taken for granted and managed by near monopolies that distribute and process our produce.... If society expects ... healthy food," all they're asking for is a

healthier financial picture for their growers.

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): It's certainly my pleasure to rise today in support of the resolution that has been brought forward by the

member for Don Valley West. When the member from Don Valley West talks about the fertile corner, it would behoove me to not talk about the fertile corner that I represent. As many of you have heard

me speak, the riding I represent is the largest agricultural producer in the province of Ontario and alone produces more than three other provinces.

One thing I do want to say is that Foodland Ontario is a consumer branding program and it reinforces the advantages of buying fresh, quality Ontario-grown food.

This resolution is asking that Foodland Ontario explicitly state the standards Ontario foods meet before they are placed on the market. I believe this is an excellent idea and that we should not

only consider it but should adopt it.

For me, when we talk about Ontario product, that means buying my apples where I have always bought my apples, where my parents bought theirs and where my

grandmother and grandfather bought theirs. For me, that's Ontario product. I buy my apples in the same place that I have -- our family has lived in the Huron-Bruce area for seven generations -- I

guess for all those generations. We grew them for six generations; now we buy.

When I look at the meat that I eat, be it lamb, pork or chicken, I know where I'm buying all of that.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): And beef.

Mrs. Mitchell: Yes, and my beef; I know where it comes from.

For me, that's local product; that's Ontario product. When we come from a rural area, that's our understanding of what the local product is. So when I walk

through the grocery stores in Toronto, it must be very difficult to understand where that food comes from; not only that, but to also understand what goes into growing that product. This is one way

of overcoming that, and with the understanding that people know what they are buying when they buy Ontario.

One of the ways that we can assist farmers is to promote the excellent, high-quality food they produce on a daily basis. That's very important. We must remind

people in this province and around the world where our food comes from. We also need to let them know of the very strict food standards that are applied, and the Foodland Ontario brand should bring

it to mind. When we see the Ontario brand, we should understand what that stands for. If there is standardization, then people know that's what they are buying.

This government has taken a number of measures to enforce food quality and safety in this province. Justice Haines was asked to report on Ontario's meat

regulation and inspection. As a result, he has made recommendations, and this government is following through on them. We have hired 61 more full-time meat inspectors and 58 part-time inspectors in

June 2004. We introduced a new food safety system for small and medium-sized food processing plants in Ontario. We also announced a new food safety research program that is designed to enhance the

safety of food that is produced and processed in Ontario.

I think this resolution gives us a wonderful opportunity to promote these initiatives through an already well-established Foodland Ontario program.

The member from Lambton-Kent-Middlesex brought forward a resolution in the last session that the government of Ontario should promote a framework for the

promotion of Ontario-grown goods. I also supported that resolution. It's important for us to always remember that food produced in Ontario comes from very hard-working people who are excellent

stewards of the land. When people purchase goods and see the Foodland sign, they should know automatically: highest quality, safest food produced in the world. Goods produced in Ontario are the

best in the world, and I think it's time that it was recognized. Farmers and people in rural communities spend many hours in a day working to give us our food. We as a government should not only

support them, but have the tools to help them promote their products.

If you ate Ontario food today, the agricultural community thanks you.

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): It's a pleasure to join in the debate today. I commend the member from Don Valley West for

introducing this motion today -- I wish it was more into legislation, but I hope that's coming down the road -- and recognize that an urban member and the Liberal government, which is predominantly

urban members, are beginning to look at the fact that farmers feed cities. She recognized the campaign going on out there.

I have a farmer in my riding who always tells me that people in the city don't understand where food comes from and the importance of it until they have to eat

their carpet. So I will bring this to his attention, that we have been debating this today.

We can never lose the ability to feed ourselves, and there is a huge education component involved here in educating the people, especially in the cities, about

the importance of growing our own food. The fact is that farmers in Ontario have been in a crisis for two and a half years now; the farms are closing down as we speak. So action is needed now.

Foodland Ontario, a program under the Bill Davis government, was brought in in 1977. This program, the Foodland Ontario ad campaign, is a reannouncement. As my

colleague for Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant had mentioned, it was reintroduced at the plowing match. But it's encouraging. We support Foodland Ontario, but we're concerned they don't have the resources

or funding to address these new duties. We need to impress here that we need to do more to promote Ontario-grown produce.

In my riding of Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Kawartha Farm Fresh continues to connect and liaise among the local farmers, branding and labelling. The city of

Kawartha Lakes has $73 million of farm gate sales annually, and it's the third-largest agriculture employer in the province.

The member from Peterborough rightly recognized the Kawartha Choice Farmland Food works and that they received an award in September in Prince Edward Island at

the chamber of commerce annual meeting. The Kawartha Choice Farmland Food initiatives, in competition with all communities, took home the gold in the national award for leadership. So I highly

commend them for that local initiative. I think the whole province can learn from that initiative and their award.

We've been speaking a lot with agriculture reps in our area, and I just wanted to mention a few of their comments. Joe Hickson, Dale Mountjoy and Dave Frew from

the grain and oilseed producers say they need restoration of funding in the provincial budget to agriculture and restoration of agriculture as a priority ministry. It used to be that health,

agriculture and education were the three most important ministries. We see agriculture slipping and farmers must not be expected to continue subsidizing the cost of food production.

The fruit and vegetable growers, Charles Stevens and Ted Watson, say there's a need for more provincial support for agriculture in the areas of research and

development, consultation with farmers, and promotion of locally grown fruits and vegetables as essential to health.

From the municipalities: When farmers embark on value-added enterprises -- for example, the roadside markets -- they should not face higher taxation and red

tape. There should be greater promotion of Ontario food, including larger logos on Ontario-grown produce, and Ontario content rules that require more Ontario products to be made available in

stores.

I'm happy to see the motion today. I encourage the government to put legislation in place so that this can be taken further and that Ontario produce and products

can be more visibly seen in stores and we can have more education to buy locally grown.

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): It's a pleasure for me to speak this morning on this motion put forward by my good friend and colleague from Don

Valley West, who has been a real advocate among urban members to really push forward the "farmers feed cities" concept. I commend her for that leadership.

Some time ago, when I was a young lad, I remember being at an agriculture forum in Peterborough. The Hon. Eugene Whalen was there in his role as the federal

Minister of Agriculture. I remember a lady at the back asking a question of Mr. Whalen. She said, "Mr. Whalen, I'm concerned about the price of Florida orange juice." Well, we know Mr. Whalen. He

adjusted the green Stetson slightly and made his response to that lady. He suggested to her that a good substitute for Florida orange juice, at a cheaper price with better quality, was tomato juice

processed from those tomatoes grown, Mr. Speaker, in your riding, in Leamington in Essex and processed at H.J. Heinz.

There's a real moral in the answer Mr. Whalen provided that day, that Ontario-grown produce, whether it's fruits or vegetables, or cattle, lamb and chicken, is

of a quality that is the best in the world. We have to take our time to keep promoting that concept, that Ontario-grown fruits and vegetables and meat are the best in the world.

My colleague from Haliburton-Victoria-Brock touched upon the Kawartha Choice program, which was an initiative of the Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce. It

came out of the mad cow crisis, in that we had to go back and start rebranding and promoting locally grown produce and meats in the Peterborough area to reinforce the activity that goes on from

Foodland Ontario. It has been a very successful program, recently winning the gold star award at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce annual event in Prince Edward Island.

I had an opportunity just recently, in my role as the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade, to meet with the Canadian

Council of Grocery Distributors. I think they have a great role and they're prepared to take on that role to promote Ontario-grown food. I just want to read from a note, as my time ticks down:

"Supporting Ontario-grown and healthy active living for Ontarians:

"We have several success stories in supporting Ontario- and Canadian-grown products and our members will be open to any proposal from an Ontario-based

manufacturer or producer who wishes to supply products to our stores. Our presentation provided a high-level overview of these initiatives and the opportunity areas. We would be happy to speak with

you" and your government further to promote those initiatives.

I think there's a wide net of individuals out there who are prepared to push forward with this initiative to provide Ontario-grown produce and foods every day

to the plates of Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate? The member for Toronto-Danforth.

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I think it's time we got a New Democratic voice in here.

I'm pleased to be here today to speak not just for myself, although it's private members' hour, but on behalf of New Democrats in support of this resolution

and to talk a little bit about the issues facing the agricultural and farming communities today. Ms. Wynne, when she first introduced the motion, talked about the fact that it might seem a little

strange that a city person is concerned about this issue, but as she said, we all have to eat and we all want to make sure that our food, and particularly our children's and our grandchildren's

food, is safe to eat and that people are aware of safety concerns but also of the quality standards. Certainly, who wouldn't support a resolution like this?

I also have to say, and I repeat this frequently in the House when we are talking about agricultural issues, that although I represent a downtown Toronto

riding, I'm from Newfoundland and Labrador. I saw the tragedy of what happened in Newfoundland when the fish disappeared. I relate that story again, because when I was on committee traveling around

this province, particularly around the greenbelt but on other issues as well, one of the things that the committee heard time and time again from the farm community, and particularly from the

family farm, is that they see themselves at risk of disappearing, for all kinds of reasons that we're all aware of and don't have time to go into here today. Of course this motion is not about

that, but I think it's important to set the table, to remind people that there are many, many issues, that I know we all have been trying to deal with in various ways, to save the family farm,

because it's so important to our economy.

I do want to say that the sustainability of what Mrs. Wynne is proposing today does depend upon there being Ontario crops and markets for them. Last year,

while on the greenbelt committee hearings -- as you know, I've always supported the greenbelt and will continue to support the greenbelt, and at the same time will continue to talk to the

government about my concerns around that greenbelt. We heard from a lot of farmers that large, large swaths of prime agricultural land, even more valuable than most of the farmlands that are being

saved, were left out of the greenbelt. There were great concerns expressed about that and how the lines were drawn. But during the greenbelt committee hearings, we heard that protecting farmland is

one part of the solution but that ensuring that Ontario farmers have a local market is equally important. The committee heard extensively from the agricultural community about the very difficult

economic times they're confronted with right now. We heard time and time again that, with or without the greenbelt, these issues are there. They brought up all kinds of things: BSE, low commodity

prices, US farmers dumping corn into Ontario markets at a fraction of the production cost. It was underscored that the crisis in the farming community is happening and that the government needs to

take action.

I'm pleased to say that there are times when we all do work together on important issues. I did put forward an amendment in the greenbelt committee that called

for sustaining the economic viability of farming communities as part of the greenbelt, and I'm pleased to say that it passed. I'm really looking forward to that being enacted, because it hasn't

been, months after it was passed.

These are the kinds of things we need to see the government address: the farm income crisis that's gripping rural Ontario, the farm income crisis that has

spread into the farm supply sector, which is now carrying an increasing proportion of farm debt. I know there are issues around the trade agreement that we hear about, but we have to stop hiding

behind that and get provincial programs in place, like Quebec has done, that return Ontario farmers their costs of production. We all know about these issues. I know I'm painting a big picture

here, but this resolution is an important part of this big picture. We have to look at the big picture to make sure that this works.

Another point I want to make -- I mean, I'm not going to make an amendment, as it is a private member's bill, but it's a big issue with me as an environment

critic: the concerns I have around GMO foods. I would have liked to have seen the expansion of this to include full disclosure about GMO foods, things like what the standards are, the research used

in making decisions around GMO foods, if that research has been peer reviewed, disclosure that the current available research about GE foods does not currently include studies that look at how

consuming GE food impacts people's health over the long term. I say this because it's an issue that has been generally ignored. We all do talk about the fact that there are some real benefits to

genetically modified foods in terms of feeding a starving world, in some of the developing countries. We do look at some of the positive impacts of that, but when you have the Royal Society of

Canada and its peer organization in the UK, Greenpeace, the Environmental Protection Agency, the World Health Organization, joined by New Democrats at the federal level and here -- in fact, it was

part of our New Democratic platform provincially in the last election. There have been many groups advocating for comprehensive, independent, long-term research, which needs to be conducted to

learn what the health risks associated with eating GE foods are, particularly among child-bearing women, infants and children.

The Royal Society of Canada and the Ontario Public Health Association have strongly criticized the lack of regulations around GE foods and how the studies that

are used in making decisions about it are from biotechnology firms. Some of the data and the studies may be quite legitimate and the results legitimate, but nobody can argue that they have a vested

interest, and we do need to see some independent studies. There have been many calls for establishing an independent, transparent research capacity to study bioengineered foods.

Public opinion expresses similar sentiments as these bodies. They want to know if the produce on the shelf or bin has been modified. A recent poll found that

50% of Canadians are concerned about the potential dangers of eating GE foods.

I know that it's not included in this, and I'm still supporting the motion. I understand how private members' bills and motions are done; you can't do the

whole package, and this of course is an important component. But I wanted to raise some of these issues, because I do think they're really important. This gives me an opportunity to talk a bit

about it, because we don't talk very much about the implications of this.

I want to tell you, for instance, what the World Health Organization said: "Attention should be paid to the particular physiological characteristics and

metabolic requirements of specific population subgroups such as infants, children, pregnant and lactating women, the elderly and those with chronic diseases or compromised immune systems."

The Royal Society of Canada said, "Early introduction of these (peanut, tree nuts, seafood and seeds) and other food proteins to the infant's relatively

immature immune system may encourage development of an allergy. Infants and young children therefore appear to be more susceptible to developing food allergies, resulting in a higher

incidence."

The Canadian government has been severely criticized for GE food safety regulations by numerous authorities, including the Royal Society of Canada and many

others. So we have a lot of work to do on that.

As well, I would like to talk just for a moment about the issue of pesticides. I believe that it is an issue and we do need to have that debate now -- we do. I

know it's a contentious issue within the agriculture and farming community. There are organic farmers, there are farmers who are trying to keep genetically engineered foods out of their crop areas,

and there are all kinds of issues around that. But in terms of pesticides -- and a Conservative member mentioned it -- there are safer technologies and pesticides that our farmers do not or may not

have access to. That is an area, again, where research shows more and more -- we talk about imported strawberries, for instance. Strawberries, as I understand from what I've read, are one of the

highest pesticide-laden fruits, berries or foods available in the marketplace. We've all learned, hopefully -- and part of the education should be around washing our foods carefully before eating

them or digesting them, to get as much of the pesticide residue off. But we know that some of the safety precautions and quality standards are not as high in other jurisdictions as they are here.

That's something that has to be dealt with in an international marketplace, and I understand that, but nonetheless, I think it behooves us, as the Ontario government, to make sure that education is

provided more than it is now so that parents are aware that they need to wash foods. Sometimes it's recommended with certain types of foods that you wash them in mild, soapy water.

Those are the kinds of issues we have to be concerned about now, because there are so many pesticides, so many fungicides, so many newer processes that I think

farmers would be quite willing to use if it was economically viable and the regulations and regime were put in place that would make it easier for them to do that. There's more and more evidence

that some of the pesticides that are used are having a very negative effect, particularly on our children.

When the NDP was in government, Ruth Grier, who was the Minister of the Environment and then the Minister of Health, commissioned a study while Minister of the

Environment on cancer prevention. I know Ms. Grier is still extremely involved and dedicated to that issue although she's no longer a member in this place. One of the components of that report

talked about the impact and the connection between our environment, the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat, and the pesticides that are often in that food. Those are the kinds

of things that we're seeing more and more evidence of.

The city of Toronto recently banned pesticide use on our lawns in the city. It's very controversial and it's not being very well enforced at this point, but

it's a start. I think that's an important step forward.

I understand, as I stand here talking about this, that farmers need to be in a position to compete with the US. There really are some unfair trade actions

being taken, and I recognize that. I know that farmers have to do whatever they have to do to be able to compete in this marketplace. But there are all kinds of things that we can do as a

government to deal with the economic crisis they're in and also to help them bring in the latest and best technologies in terms of the best practices for growing our fruits and vegetables.

With that, I would say to the member that, as a fellow city MPP in this place who understands the importance of the viability of our farmers and the food we

eat, I support the resolution before us today and would like the opportunity to further it and deal with some of those other issues that I raised today in a more direct way.

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I only have a minute and a half left, so I want to place on the record an item of concern regarding agriculture

in Ontario. I have a letter here from a constituent, Mr. John Doner, who is a farmer in Gormley. From his letter, I quote:

"Our provincial Premier has led us to believe that agriculture would become a lead ministry under Ontario's current Liberal government. And yet support levels

for the industry have in fact been cut, and additional costly legislation (greenbelt, nutrient management, etc.) has been passed that farmers must comply with."

He goes on to say, "When will a grain farmer (for instance) be able to expect a fair return for their labour, risk and investment?"

He closes by saying, "With little to no returns to entice younger generations to begin farming, our governments should be concerned with the future

sustainability of the nation's domestic food supply."

The reality is that we can talk about marketing food as much as we want, and in that regard we obviously support whatever initiatives are necessary to do that

to help our agri-food industry, but at the end of the day we won't have farmers if in fact this government does not see agriculture and conduct itself in a way to demonstrate a priority for the

agri-food industry in this province. It is not doing that, it is falling down on the job, and agriculture in this province is at risk because of that.

Ms. Jennifer F. Mossop (Stoney Creek): It is my pleasure to speak this morning to support this resolution that's been brought forward by the

member for Don Valley West. I think I will skip ahead a little bit and address a couple of the things that have just been mentioned by the member opposite.

This government supports its farmers and its agricultural community in a very meaningful way, in good times and in tough times -- and very tough times

recently. Just last year, there were some real challenges facing our farming community. There was $549 million dedicated to our agricultural budget. We spent an additional $628 million or more to

support our farmers in crisis. In addition, our Premier met with the farming community. There was an agri-food summit. We responded directly to the concerns of farmers by restoring our research

stations, by working with them in many areas and, may I add, by beefing up our Foodland Ontario ads -- and let's get to that subject, because that's what we're here to talk about.

Foodland Ontario is a symbol that has become synonymous with freshness and excellence in food for a number of decades now. This year, we actually added a

component, because we realized that times have changed and not every consumer out there actually knows how to handle fresh food. It used to be that we all took home ec -- at least, all the females

would take home ec, and the females were the ones who were doing the shopping -- and we knew from our home ec classes what we were supposed to do with our food. But that's not the case any more. It

is not standard that everybody knows that you should not put your tomatoes in the fridge because they won't taste as good -- they really won't -- or that you shouldn't soak your mushrooms. Not

everybody knows that. So we added this feature to our Foodland Ontario ads this year to help educate our consumers about how to handle fresh food.

The other thing that a lot of people don't realize is that it used to be you'd wait all year long so you could have strawberries for maybe two weeks and you'd

wait all year long so you could have wonderful fresh tomatoes for maybe three or four weeks. Well, now you can get these things all year round. Fresh Ontario tomatoes happen all year because we

have greenhouses. Our agricultural community has changed, and our support of it has changed along with it.

Interestingly enough, we know by our senses that Ontario food is best. We know because we taste its freshness; we taste that it is best. We know through sheer

common sense that we live in a corner of the world where high standards are a priority and where we can readily have this food. We know by common sense and by our senses that Ontario food is the

best. But we are a society and a species -- more so a society -- that needs things empirically; we need to see it in black and white. When the consumer is reaching out for that piece of fruit and

maybe has a choice between something imported and something from Ontario, they know intuitively that the apple from Ontario is going to taste better and be fresher and will have met a certain

standard. But we, as a species, just seem to need to know these things in an empirical way in black and white. So our Foodland Ontario symbol should go that extra step to spell out and recognize

the high standard that Ontario food meets.

I want to talk a little bit about just how lucky we are in this corner of the planet. Quite frankly, I think everybody should be dropped by parachute into a

Third World country, where growing food is nigh impossible, and then come back here. Your view of the world will have changed, and your view of your corner of the world will have changed so

much.

We have the ability to grow our own food. We have the ability to grow excellent food and a wide range of food. That doesn't happen everywhere on the planet. We

recognize that as a government; we need to recognize it more as a society. It is why we put the greenbelt in place; you cannot grow wonderful food if you don't have the land to grow it. So we have

our greenbelt; we have been supporting our farmers, and will continue to do so, and work with them in a meaningful way; and we have our Foodland Ontario ads, which educate the public and celebrate

the fabulous food we have. Bon appétit.

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): I want to thank my colleague from Don Valley West for bringing this motion forward. I know

that when I stand up, everyone expects me to talk about farming and agriculture. But to have it come from an urban member, and to have her use her time as a private member to push forward that

cause, gives it more impact, I feel. I certainly know that she brings a different voice and very important voice to this.

Ontario food is nutritious, safe and plentiful. As farmers, we need to promote those products and those qualities to our consumers. We need to make the linkage

between what happens on our farms and what our consumers know about what's happening there.

Consumers have a great deal of power: They have the power to change their consumption habit; they have the power to change their buying habits; they have the

power to change the buying procedures of their retailers. In all of that, of course, they have the power to increase farmers' incomes. Consumers also have the power to influence food production

through what they buy and how they influence their retailers. They have that, and they need to use it wisely and be completely informed.

That is what we are trying to do under this motion. We want to make sure that a consumer goes into the grocery store, picks up a product, knows that it's an

Ontario product and knows how that is different from anything else on the shelves. They can make those decisions; they can decide whether they want to buy a GMO product or not, if they know that's

what happened there. At this point, most consumers have no idea where their food has been or where it comes from, and we want to have that happen.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Don Valley West has two minutes to reply.

Ms. Wynne: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to all the members from all parties who have spoken to this resolution this morning.

I just want to follow up on something that the member for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex talked about: the power of the consumer. That really is what I am talking

about in this resolution. Because consumers have a lot of power, they need to have information, and we need to make sure that consumers get that information.

The member for Toronto-Danforth illustrated the point I made in my remarks about the possibility of the extension of the debate, and I understand that there

are people who want to go into a much broader debate about food safety and so on. I commend that and think it's a necessary thing to do, but we have to start from a base of information. Until we

have that base of information and people understand all the great things that are happening now -- we do have such a safe food base in this province, and until we understand just how safe it is, we

really can't have that larger debate. I think that's what we need to strive for: getting that informed base. There's nothing worse than a debate that is fed by ignorance and panic.

On that note, there's timeliness to this discussion. Every day in the newspaper we're reading about the importance of food safety. When we talk about avian

flu, we're talking about the way food is handled, the way food is produced. In Ontario, we have the capacity to be leaders in the world. Let's make sure that all the residents of Ontario understand

what our farmers are doing. Let's promote that among ourselves, and then we can promote it in the world.

CRIME PREVENTION

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I move that in the opinion of this House, the government of the Ontario should urgently address the issue

of violence, gang-related crime and the illegal use of firearms -- as a matter of public safety and responsible government -- by being tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Mr. Qaadri has moved private member's of notice of motion 2. Pursuant to standing order 96, you have

up to 10 minutes.

Mr. Qaadri: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you're aware, this issue is urgent, pressing and important. To highlight this, as members will recall,

just yesterday I had the honour, duty and privilege of welcoming to this House, and asking you all to recognize, Mr. Mohammed Gilao, the father of a 23-year-old individual, Mr. Loyan Gilao, who was

gunned down in the prime of his life. Mr. Gilao was accompanied by a number of family members, including his sister, and other supporters and one individual whom I've come to respect and know a

great deal, Pastor Walter McIntyre. Pastor McIntrye has actually taken the trouble of itemizing and writing for me, I guess you could say, a kind of letter, but maybe it's almost a literary story,

about violence to do with my riding of Etobicoke North. I'd like to enter that into the record.

I begin as follows: "Jamestown in north Etobicoke has been in the news a lot over the past few summers. Drugs, gangs and drive-by shootings are a part of what

our kids grow up with in Jamestown. A summer evening. There's an outdoor party on someone's front lawn. The news gets out that someone who owes a debt is at that party. And a car with tinted

windows pulls to a stop. A window rolls down and there's a gun.

"That's just how it happened on August 3. Fifty Jamestown Crescent. Ten gunshots. And a 23-year-old lay dead in front of Greenholme school.

"I was behind Greenholme school. On the basketball courts. Overseeing the play of a group of about 30 children. It was about 8:30 in the evening. Ten shots.

The kids said they were afraid. They wanted to go home. So we broke off play a little early.

"The neighbourhood was spinning with red and white flashing lights. The air was filled with sounds of sirens, police cars, ambulances, emergency vehicles, fire

trucks.

"And the kids, five, six, seven, eight years old, some still holding basketballs, slipped under the yellow police tape and went home. No counselling ...

nothing.

"That's just how it is in Jamestown, Etobicoke North. That's home. That's life. I worry that it seems so normal to the kids.

"It doesn't have to be that way. If we roll up our sleeves and work together ... we can make a difference."

"Actually, over the past couple of years we have made a difference in Jamestown. Because -- at least in part -- of the work of organizations such as the

Etobicoke Strategy, a group consisting of faith leaders and police working together, the incidence of violent crime, in spite of August 3, has actually been driven down.

"Legislation recently enacted by the province has helped.

"It is now more affordable for churches and community groups to rent school gymnasiums and playgrounds. Like at Greenholme. That decision put billions of

dollars of real estate to work in the fight against crime.

"And summer jobs are now available for young people in places like Jamestown. That brought genuine hope. Taxpayers' money well spent.

"Much remains to be done. Please know that there are many people praying for you all as you all work to create the good laws that we will need to take the guns

off our streets."

That's signed,

"Many blessings

"Pastor Walter McIntyre

"Outreach Pastor, Kipling Avenue Baptist Church."

Not only would I like to recognize the sentiment that has driven Pastor McIntyre to compose that piece, I would like, in our future deliberations here, to

honour his wishes. We, as a government, in this Legislature, must work together using all the various measures at our disposal, whether we're dealing with gangs, which now number, I'm told, more

than 200 in the city; whether we're dealing with the number of homicides, which are now approaching 100 in the city of Toronto; helping to empower police, whether it's by increasing the number of

officers who walk the streets of Toronto; whether it's organizing particular task forces that are specifically designated to deal with things such as gangs or guns or organized crime; whether it's

empowering our legal system regarding, say, sentencing or having dedicated crown prosecutors or mandatory gun reporting; and, of course, working in concert with our federal colleagues to enhance

things like border security, therefore hoping to stem the tide of the illegal flow of firearms.

Along with being tough on crime, we, as Liberals, as people who are hopefully moving toward a just society, to echo the phrase of the great statesman Pierre

Elliott Trudeau, we must also engage our youth and engage communities to offer them hope and a way out and avenues in which they will realize that violence is not the only pathway, the only answer

to their needs.

We have, for example, engaged with the police services in a number of projects that have been very, very successful; for example, projects Impact, Pathfinder

and Flicker. Ron Taverner, 23 division superintendent, by whom I had a recent briefing, talked to me about an eight-month project, Project Flicker, in which hundreds of police officers were

involved with an investigation of more than 200 gang members, particularly based in Rexdale and the surroundings. Very recently, we had multiple arrests made in Etobicoke and surrounding locations.

I would like to congratulate Police Superintendent Ron Taverner and, by extension, Chief of Police Bill Blair, on these types of initiatives, because we need to get at the sources of organized and

criminal violence.

We must, as well, empower police. I'm pleased to say that here in the McGuinty government we have made some initial steps on, for example, empowering police

not only with the task forces that I mentioned earlier, but also with new police divisions, which are arising as we speak, particularly in my own riding at Kipling and Albion, and also, of course,

the funding allocation, close to $40 million, for 1,000 new police officers. This is certainly welcome, it's needed, I might say it's overdue, and it's something that will, no doubt, positively

affect the level of violence across Toronto.

One of the questions I asked, had put on the record, to the Attorney General yesterday was regarding the legal system. One of the complaints I have heard from

residents, from the victims' families and from the police services is that for too long under the previous administrations in this province, there seems to have been the revolving-door effect,

meaning that individuals who are picked up for particular crimes, be they violent or gun-related, drug-related, mere theft, seemed to be able to get back on the street without too much restraint.

There was, for example, recently in Etobicoke, reference to an individual who I believe I cannot name but who nevertheless actually had accumulated more than 200 criminal charges and yet was still

able to post repeated and serial and never-ending bail to be back on the streets. Of course, the police officer with whom I was discussing this was a little bit despondent and a little bit

disheartened that if the police actually go and make the arrest, with proper accumulation of evidence to be brought forth in a trial, why is it that these types of individuals cannot be stopped?

That's why we had, from the Attorney General, commitment to deal with this particular area.

I'm pleased to be able to share this resolution with other individuals from my caucus, particularly those who feel strongly about this issue, and they are MPPs

Brad Duguid from Scarborough Centre, Kathleen Wynne from Don Valley West, Tony Wong from Markham, and Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti from Scarborough Southwest.

In conclusion, I would like to quote Dr. Martin Luther King, who spoke against violence and embodied some of the best traditions that we may learn from. He

said, "Cowardice asks the question: Is it safe? Expediency asks the question: Is it politic? Vanity asks the question: Is it popular? But conscience asks the question: Is it right? And there comes

a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic nor popular; but one must take it because it is right."

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I am very pleased to be able to take

part in the debate this morning on this private member's bill. I want

first of all to say that our caucus of course will be supporting this resolution. I do want to congratulate him and the members of his caucus who he has mentioned will be supporting this bill as

well. I certainly hope this sends a strong message to your two justice ministries.

This has been one of the most horrifying years in the history of the province of Ontario, particularly in relation to the city of Toronto, in gun violence and

gang violence. It appears that very little is being done as we speak. It appears that the government -- of course, the member is a member of the government -- has done very little. Mr. Kwinter is

the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services, whom we can refer to as the top cop in the province. It seems there has been very little action on this particular issue. I know that our

own leader, from August 1 on -- and that has nothing do with all the resolutions and all the press releases he had put out prior to that. Fourteen times since August 1, John Tory has called for

action on illegal guns in the province of Ontario, and he's called for tougher sentences and input and leadership from our two justice ministries on this issue. What we've seen, really, is not a

lot.

We're talking now about the parole board, and I know that Minister Kwinter says they're reviewing the parole board issue on whether or not to turn it over to

the same people who allow their parolees to go to Wonderland. That's what came up the other day from the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police. I know that Mr. Kwinter says he's got that

particular file under review. What is disturbing is that we've learned in our caucus that existing members of the Ontario parole board have already been asked for interviews. The National Parole

Board is interviewing them for positions.

We understand -- and I hope this is wrong, to the members of the government -- that in this particular issue, the legislation is prepared and the regulations

are prepared, so the government can actually introduce the bill this fall and have it passed in time for the end of the year, which would of course be March 31 of next year. That's how far we

understand this file has gone, and yet the minister stands in the House day after day, saying, "No, we're reviewing it and no decisions have been made." I sure hope I'm wrong in the accusation I'm

making here today, because I think it would be a terrible move to allow even more people onto streets under what we would call the soft-on-crime federal parole board. I think we've made that point

a few times in this House, that in fact, of people who go before the National Parole Board, approximately 55% to 60% of those folks are released,

whereas with the Ontario Parole and Earned Release

Board, less than 20% are released into the communities.

We on this side of the House think if there's one thing we can do to at least ease this burden, it's for all the members of the government side of the House to

tell the Minister of Community Safety that this is the wrong decision and to lose that file and to bury it because we don't think that in any way it's a move that is tough on crime.

One thing that I did want to add to that while I'm talking about the parole board -- and I could go on forever about the number of people the National Parole

Board has released into their communities, but one thing that is really important is the cost of the parole board. A sitting member of the parole board today in the province of Ontario receives a

per diem rate of $135 to $150 per day. A National Parole Board member receives $600 a day, a little over four times the amount of money, to sit on the National Parole Board, and that's transferring

a cost to taxpayers of approximately, we understand, a little under $12 million. For the federal government to assume control of the provincial Parole and Earned Release Board, they need another

$12 million. It's only costing a little over $2 million today to operate the provincial parole board and, as I said in the House yesterday, there is only one taxpayer, and I think it's important to

say in this House that we have to respect all taxpayers.

We think that the oldest parole board in Canada, the Ontario parole board, has done a remarkable job. They have remarkable staff and they are not lenient in

the way they allow people onto streets who have committed crimes. I'm asking the members of the government to please reconsider that decision. We don't want to see that bill brought before the

House. We don't want to debate it, we want to leave the provincial parole board alone and let those folks do the good job they've been doing for many decades.

We talk about gun violence, and I don't know how many times we've sat in this House and the question's been raised, particularly by the Progressive

Conservatives ministers in the past and the critics today, about how the federal government deals with harsh sentencing. Of course, we think the sentences aren't tough enough. We urge the

government, Minister Kwinter and Minister Bryant to get together with the federal government immediately and have the feds draft some legislation that allows them to be tougher on crime. We won't

end up with a system like we have today where we've got this huge bureaucracy, a huge boondoggle with the federal gun registry, which has been a terrible disaster. Today duck hunters have to

register their guns, but criminals don't register their guns. That seems to be a terrible move.

Here we are today with all these shootings and I will be very curious to see, if they can find the people who have done the shootings and if they actually do

find the guns, how many of those folks actually had registered guns. My guess is probably none. That's where the federal gun registry has let us down badly, at a huge cost. It has failed the

citizens of Canada and it has failed the citizens of Ontario. We only have to look at the number of shootings that have occurred right here in the GTA this summer to understand how severe that has

actually been. So we on this side of the House will be asking over and over again for tougher sentencing.

I am very pleased that the member opposite has had the courage to bring this bill forward as a private members' resolution. I'm not so sure how happy some of

his colleagues would be about this, because we don't think the government has been very tough on crime and we don't think they've done a very good job in community safety. We understand that the

justice ministries are trying to hack $300 million out of their budgets. I don't know if this is a very good place to start. When a member comes forward with a bill that asks the government to be

tough on crime, I don't know how the government can even think of slashing the budgets by anything at all, let alone a sum as astronomical as $300 million.

It is important that all members of this House support this bill. I think what's even more important is that the government very quickly react to it. I think

the resolution actually says that: "That in the opinion of this House, the government of the Ontario should urgently address the issue of violence, gang-related crime and the illegal use of

firearms -- as a matter of public safety and responsible government -- by being tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime." I think the key word there -- and again, I congratulate the member

for bringing it forward -- is that it is an urgent matter.

I could read through a number of press releases from our leader since August 1: "John Tory Calls for Action on Illegal Guns -- Urges stricter border controls,

tougher sentences and more officers on the streets."

August 4: "John Tory Urges More Action to Battle Guns -- Dalton McGuinty's words are not enough, we need real action and more police officers."

Mr. Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): That's right.

Mr. Dunlop: Sorry, not one police officer has been hired; not one. Do you know what? You should have had 333 on the streets today. If you

actually --

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Member, just take your seat. I feel a little left out of the conversation, so if you would direct your remarks to the

chair, I'd appreciate it.

Mr. Dunlop: That is exactly the point. Their platform called for 1,000 new police officers over the term of the government. If we're lucky, we

might have 500 in the final year of their term. But as of today, not one has been hired and we've got this gun violence occurring. So please don't stand there and show how little you know about

community safety.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. I shouldn't have to call more than once or twice that you come to order and we listen to the speaker. Member.

Mr. Dunlop: Well, the truth hurts, and that's what's bothering these people. They don't know anything at all about what's happening in

community safety, other than what we've told them again today, that $300 million has been slashed from it. If they think they're getting 1,000 cops, good luck, because it has not happened yet. As I

said earlier, we should have had at least a third of those police officers on the streets today, and none are there today. We understand that some of them are in training. Maybe a few of them might

have been allocated once the municipalities, at 70% of the cost, actually put the police officers into effect.

But I will go on and read some of the headlines from Mr. Tory's comments.

August 9: "Not Enough Action on Gun Violence: Tory -- McGuinty dragging his feet on more police, tougher sentencing, effective youth strategy."

August 12: "McGuinty Promises More Officers Once Again -- John Tory asks how can we trust the McGuinty Liberals this time to deliver?" That was the fourth time

they announced it, that day.

August 15: "More Shootings=More Urgent Action Needed -- Tory urges McGuinty Liberals to implement broader strategy to battle gun violence."

August 17: "McGuinty Liberals Still Don't Get it on Crime -- John Tory calls on McGuinty to recognize urgency of problem and take action on gun violence."

August 17 again: "Tory Pushes for Tougher Sentencing -- Tory calls on federal government to support tougher minimum sentences for gun crimes."

August 18: "More Support Needed to Fight Gun Violence -- Tory calls on all levels of government to support work of police and community leaders."

August 23: "John Tory Supports Call for Gun Summit -- McGuinty shouldn't have ignored call for summit on youth violence nine months ago."

September 1: "Where Have the Liberals Been this Summer? -- 33 gun murders: time for McGuinty Liberals to finally realize there's a problem."

September 8: "Tory Calls for Action Against Violent Crime -- John Tory urges McGuinty to end his silence on crime, take action to make streets safer."

October 17: "McGuinty Must Stop Ignoring Gun Violence -- Tory calls for action as shootings continue and McGuinty Liberals do virtually nothing."

Just Tuesday: "McGuinty Must Pay Attention to Crime File -- Criminals getting day passes to Canada's Wonderland, parole board to get more power."

So you can imagine how shocked we are to actually see a motion coming from a member of the government calling for tougher sentencing and for the government to

get tough on crime.

I commend the member for bringing it forward. Our party will be supporting this and we will certainly be supporting the government if they actually follow

through on this. It looks like it's probably just an opportunity for a little bit of media on it, but we want to see real action on this file, not just motions and not just support of the party. We

want to see the government coming forward and actually introducing something, showing us a plan and showing exactly what they're doing with the federal government and how they're communicating with

the federal government so we can get tough on crime and avoid the ridiculous, unnecessary deaths that we've had across this province.

I thank you so much for the opportunity to speak today. I look forward to the debate and to the full support of everybody in this House for this bill and for

the government to act on the resolution that's before you today.

Mr. Duguid: I want to begin by thanking and commending the member for Etobicoke North on something completely different, on the leadership

he's shown in closely working with the Premier and the Minister of Citizenship in ensuring that Ontario's response to the recent earthquake in Pakistan was significant, substantial and meaningful.

I want to thank him for that effort -- fantastic work.

I also want to thank him for the leadership he's shown in his own community. It's very difficult when a community is going through these difficulties, these

challenges, these shootings. I want to thank him for the leadership he's shown in his community in assisting the victims in his area in dealing with these very difficult issues.

Finally, I want to thank him for bringing this issue before us today. This is a very important issue, and I want you to know that, as the member for

Scarborough Centre and as somebody who has been elected for over 10 years now, there is no issue more important to myself and my constituents than the issue of community safety and, in particular,

youth crime and violence.

I have been immersed in this issue for over a decade. In fact, it's one of the passions that I think I brought to politics when I first got elected and one of

the reasons I originally put my name on the ballot. If I was going to talk about my life's work so far in politics, this would certainly be the issue that I've probably done the most work in.

As a city of Scarborough councillor, I had the privilege and opportunity to found and chair the special committee on crime prevention of Scarborough. We put

together the strategy for the city of Scarborough back in the mid-1990s. I followed that up after the amalgamation by being the first chair, and the only chair during the time I served on Toronto

city council, of the task force on community safety, where we put together a crime prevention strategy for the city of Toronto and a strategy for Mayor Lastman, at that time, to deal with youth

crime and violence. I'm proud to say that they were strategies considered as models not only across Canada, but around the world. It's something I was very proud to have had the opportunity to work

with a number of people on.

Being tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime is more than just a motto; it's an approach, a passion that the McGuinty government is bringing and

implementing across the province. It's a balanced approach that recognizes that, while it's essential to do everything we possibly can to prevent our young people from choosing a life of crime or

choosing to go in that wrong direction, it's just as essential that we move swiftly and strongly to bring strict enforcement against those who do fall through the cracks and who do choose that

lifestyle.

This has been a tough summer, with 41 deaths caused by firearms and 61 homicides to date. It's probably the worst year on record in term of the firearm

homicides in Toronto's history. What's required now is an all-out assault on crime as well as the causes of crime. Frankly, the hardened gang members, many of whom are involved in these particular

homicides, may be considered beyond our help in terms of preventive efforts. The only way to deal with those gangs, frankly, is to bring them down. That's why the McGuinty government's efforts to

bring forward 1,000 new police officers in areas that target things like guns and gangs is so important to our city and to our province.

There's no playing nice with these guys. For the most part, they're hardened criminals, they're organized gang members, and as I said, they must be brought

down. That's why our investment in guns and gangs units is so important. That's why we have to look at enhancing those investments. I look in the future, as we move forward in trying to resolve

some of these issues, to see enhancements in that area.

I'm pleased to see our Attorney General boldly calling on minimum sentences for crimes committed with a firearm. If you use a firearm for anything, if you have

a handgun on you, obviously you have it on you for some kind of sinister reason. It's very important that there be a severe consequence for even having a handgun on you. I don't believe there's a

need for handguns in Ontario, frankly, and I think we should be considering banning them altogether. You don't need a handgun to go hunting and you don't need a handgun to protect your farm from

predators. Handguns really have no useful use in our society, and I think we should consider banning them.

You have to be tough on enforcement, but we've got to think of the next generation as well, the next generation of young people growing up through that cycle

of poverty and of teenage pregnancies occurring at an alarming rate. We've got to think of those young people coming up through the next generation. That's why it's so important that we focus as

well on the preventive side, on preventing teenage pregnancies; providing young single mothers with the help they need to help them and their children break through the cycle of violence and

poverty; intervention at preschool and intervention during the early years in school; recreation programs for young people, but not just fighting with a basketball on a court, but with the outreach

component that's so important to go with it, so we can intervene with those young people before it's too late; a pre-charge diversion program, something we've had some good success with to date,

but we need to invest in further; and post-charge diversion.

These are the kinds of things we also have to concentrate on. It has to be a two-pronged approach if it's to be successful. If you have one without the other,

we're bound to fail. This government is committed to a balanced approach. We will be successful. We will tackle these issues.

That's all I have to say for the moment, but I thank the member for bringing this very important issue to the floor. It's an extremely important issue for all

of us here in this province. Let's get on with it.

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this resolution before us today, and I

congratulate the member for bringing it forward. It's very important, although it's brief and it's a private member's bill, that we are having this discussion this morning.

I think we would all agree that something has gone terribly wrong. We have to acknowledge that, stop wringing our hands and agonizing, and do something about

it. There are all kinds of people from the communities who are telling us what to do and organizations telling us what to do, there are recommendations galore telling us the things we need to do as

governments to make the changes, both on the security side, the criminal justice side, and on the community infrastructure side. The blueprint is there: We just have to take action.

I want to say that although my community of Toronto-Danforth is not one of those, fortunately, where there has been a lot of gang violence and shootings,

although there has been some, and I want to at this point acknowledge a young man who was shot a few years ago in my community named Kempton Howard. Remember Kempton? He was killed close to

Christmas. He was shot just outside his door in his apartment building in the Riverdale area. He was a pillar in the community. He was known as a youth leader, a role model.

I became friends with his mother, Joan Howard, who is an incredible woman, who's strong. She's continuing to deal with the aftermath of the shooting and raise

her other son without his brother. They're just now, several years later, in pre-trial, where she's now facing the young men who are accused of murdering her son. I certainly want to pay tribute to

her, Joan Howard, and all of those mothers, fathers and relatives who have had to deal with the aftermath of mostly their sons' deaths, though sometimes young women have been caught in the

crossfire as well, and tell them that this is an issue that we all want to do something about and work with them on.

I attended a press conference here recently by a coalition of people from various black organizations who gave a powerful press conference and told us that

they view this as a crisis in their community, and they want action and told us what to do. I recently attended the report by the Toronto Community Foundation. As you know, they conduct an annual

check-up on Toronto and they publish it in their Vital Signs report. I attended this year's report last Friday, and its findings spoke to this summer's headlines. It found that while the city's

overall crime rate continues to decline, the number of people between the ages of 18 and 24 who are perpetrators of violent crime was on the rise.

The authors urge readers, particularly decision-makers, to look beyond the headlines and address what factors were happening to cause this disturbing trend.

They talked about factors -- and again, this is not new to us -- like more youth living in poverty. Young people have been particularly impacted by the increased prevalence of poverty in Toronto

over the past two decades. There has been a 100% increase -- 100% -- in the number of children living in high-poverty neighbourhoods, and a 60% increase in the number of youth living in

higher-poverty neighbourhoods. The scarcity of programs and services that give opportunities to these youths to increase their prospects, break the cycle of poverty and reduce their risk to be

drawn to street life -- this scarcity is both a product of funding cuts made under the previous Tory government and the changing location of poverty.

Not only has there been a dramatic increase in the number of poor neighbourhoods in Toronto, but they have moved to the inner suburbs like Scarborough, North

York and Etobicoke. Historically, social services and community centres offering resources and recreation have not been concentrated in those areas. It has been pointed out by the United Way report

recently, Poverty by Postal Code, that there is this real and serious issue in these outlying suburbs. They do not have the services that we have in downtown Toronto.

Many parents and youth have expressed anxiety over the lack of facilities and programs for youth. During community consultations in these areas -- and I want

to tell you that although it hasn't been in the media, it's been happening quietly. I'm sure many of us are doing it. Howard Hampton has been meeting with many youth groups across our communities,

and I have joined him in some of the tours and some of the meetings. We met just the other night with some Tamil youth in the Scarborough area who talked about what's happening to them and their

friends in their schools and communities. We're hearing from youth, in every location we meet with them, the same stories over and over again. There is a pattern here and that's what we're speaking

about today.

They talk about the lack of constructive learning, recreational activities and employment opportunities. Those were their main concerns, coupled with the fear

of getting caught up in growing gang violence. The Toronto Community Foundation has, in successive reports, been calling for reinvestment in youth programming and community spaces that they feel

are their own. The same recommendation has been made by the city in its community safety plan and by organizations like the United Way of Greater Toronto.

I want to underscore here that youth programs cannot exclude those who are already in the cycle of violence. There's a really dangerous trend taking place in

funding social services that is seeing government withdraw from funding programs to help people who are facing multiple barriers; simply put, the hard cases. Programs for gang intervention and exit

programs cannot be left as concepts on paper. They need to be implemented.

We heard from youth in schools that the Safe Schools Act is a disaster. We heard it over and over again. It means throwing out some of those hard cases and

sometimes not-so-hard cases who get caught up in the Safe Schools Act. They're thrown out on to the street. It's causing all kinds of domestic problems in their homes. They're not getting an

education. They can't get a job. There's nowhere else for them to turn. It is not the way to deal with young people who are having to make difficult choices in their lives, who may be having

problems at home. The interventions in the schools are no longer there. The social workers and the guidance counsellors thrown out by the previous government: We need to put those services back.

That's what these kids are telling us.

I know some people might dismiss what I've mentioned in terms of dealing with some of these so-called hard cases as a big hug, and that that's not the way to

deal with it, that it won't deliver and won't reverse the trend.

I want to read a testimonial from someone who has been there, and I don't know if I'll pronounce his name right because I don't know him personally. Kardinal

Offishal is one of the country's best musicians. In an interview he gave this summer, he weighed in on this debate about what is needed to stop the violence, and here's the quote:

"There's a lot of lost kids on the streets right now -- that's the real issue.

"They need guidance and something to do that will keep them out of trouble."

Offishall learned first-hand how beneficial government-backed social programs can be back in 1993 when he participated in the Toronto Arts Council's Fresh Arts

program, part of the NDP government's Jobs Ontario Youth, called the JOY initiative. He goes on to say:

"In the aftermath of all the kids rampaging downtown, following the Rodney King verdict in '93, the Bob Rae government stepped in with some funding for

youth-oriented programs like Fresh Arts. That's really how" -- he mentions -- "Saukrates, Jully Black, Baby Blue Soundcrew and I got our start. It gave us something useful to do.

"We were able to go into radio stations and recording studios and see how engineers and producers worked behind the scenes. Many of us had never been inside a

studio before, let alone recorded a song in one. Through that program we also got to promote our own events, from making the flyers to doing radio promotion, everything. I can't begin to put a

dollar value on what I learned."

That's a testimonial from somebody who felt his life going the other way and a government program specifically for youth was able to help him and many others,

not only not to go down that road but to lead to very successful recording careers.

To respond to crime as it happens, we need the resources there in place. That's become increasingly clear time after time.

I should say as well that I was very pleased to hear John Tory, now the leader of the official opposition, when he went out on a tour after a whole array of

shootings over one weekend. I was very pleased to hear him say to the media -- I'm sure not everybody in his caucus supported him on that -- that we needed to put some of those programs back, the

programs that they took away. And we do need to put them back. The Liberal government needs to make it a priority to put them back, because they're not back yet. I know it takes time. When Mike

Harris took away all these programs and cut the funding out of the education system and programs for kids to finance a tax cut for the wealthy, we said that once you tear down these things that

took our parents generations to build up -- these safety nets and social programs -- it takes time to put them back in. We have to get our priorities straight here and we have to put these programs

back in. We have to make sure there are enough social workers and guidance counsellors in the schools and these kinds of youth programs to help not only the kids who are not in trouble, the good

kids, but the kids who are going down that road.

In my few minutes left, I want to talk about the need for more police officers on our streets. On this one, I have to agree with what the Conservatives said.

I'm glad the member is going to be an advocate within his own government on this, because I've heard the announcement and the reannouncement of the reannouncement of the reannouncement of the 1,000

new officers over the past couple of years. I went a few months ago to the last reannouncement of the 1,000 new officers. Not one of those officers has been hired. I hear that apparently they are

in training, but they are not on the street yet. Originally, they were supposed to be community-based officers who would be visible and become part of the community, and that is no longer the case.

That's where we really need these officers to be.

I also want to say very strongly to the member, and I'm sure he would agree with me on this, that the cost-sharing arrangement in order for municipalities to

hire these police officers puts cash-starved municipalities in a position to make it, if not impossible, almost impossible -- and for some, impossible -- to hire. The province is approving only a

third of the cost, but they're not uploading any of the other services.

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): Public health.

Ms. Churley: You know what? You talk to the municipalities about that. I know the government wants to defend its actions. I know that; I

understand that. But I'm saying here today that municipalities cannot afford to hire these police officers. I know it's a sore point with the government. We have a resolution before us today that's

forcing us to look at all these issues in an honest way, because if we don't, we're not going to be able to stop this. So let's admit that there is a problem with the announcement of getting 1,000

new cops on the street. You need to look at that, because it's not going to work the way it's framed now, and municipalities are telling us that.

I welcome the resolution before us today and, as I said at the beginning of my remarks, we have the answers before us. We do not need to reinvent the wheel; we

just need to read the reports of the Toronto Community Foundation, the United Way, the city of Toronto and all of the groups out there from the communities that are working hard and have

recommendations and are telling us exactly what we need to do. If we do it, if we follow up and do what they're telling us to do, we can put an end to this youth violence.

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): I'm very happy to rise to support this motion. It's interesting for me today. I've spoken about

issues of agriculture and I'm moving into a very urban issue, but I think in the same way that issues for our farmers affect all of us, these issues in our urban centres, particularly in Toronto,

affect the whole province, and we have to work together.

I want to talk about two aspects of this that are close to my heart. The member for Etobicoke North in his motion points to immediate remedies that are needed

and longer-term remedies that are needed. The issues of community mobilization and public education are the two things that I think we need to talk about and focus on.

Community mobilization has to do with individuals in communities taking responsibility and taking action, and working with our police officers. In the same way

that the government can't do everything -- and there are certainly government programs, and I'll talk about those in a second vis-à-vis education -- police officers can't do everything, and

have to be able to work with communities that are willing. I know that the communities in Toronto are willing to work with police officers to change the culture, but there's work to be done

there.

In the riding that I represent, there has been violence over the summer, and I'm very concerned about the community reaction. Jane Jacobs, the urban thinker,

talks about "eyes on the street" and the need for communities to be paying attention to what's going on around them and to be willing to talk about what's going on around them, with each other and

with the authorities. Last night I was at a town hall at 53 division, and the programs the police officers were talking about at that event -- police officers like Heinz Kuck and Peter Henry,

people who get to know the community and the young people so that when they're in uniform, the young people know who they are when they're walking in their communities. I think that those community

mobilization initiatives are extremely important.

This Sunday at Yonge-Dundas Square, from 3:00 to 6:00, the United Mothers Opposing Violence Everywhere are going to have a rally. It's not insignificant that

those kinds of city-wide events are starting to happen. But at the same time, at the local level, Chief Bill Blair will tell us that it's extremely important that community members talk to each

other, that we as MPPs, and working with our city councillors, pull together community leaders and talk about what the gaps are and where the community can come together to help itself and to work

with the authorities.

Public education I think is an absolutely prime mover in terms of creating a safe community. Some of the things we're doing in this government -- the community

use of schools, opening up the doors of the schools that have been shut tight over the last eight or 10 years when the previous government was in place -- those schools are the public spaces where

people can gather, and they can create their own links and provide opportunities for their youth to take part. That is an absolutely critical piece, and I certainly am a voice in my caucus to push

for more of that, as much as we can do in terms of creating those community hubs -- that and Learning to 18, keeping kids in school and giving them hope. Those are the kinds of long-term things,

along with the more immediate community mobilization that we are moving on and that we have to do more of.

Mr. Tony C. Wong (Markham): I am also happy to speak in support of this motion. First of all, I want to thank my colleague the member from

Etobicoke North for putting this forward.

I want to start by saying that as a former member of the York Regional Police services board, I certainly understand the complexity of gang-related crimes and

violence. Unfortunately, in my own riding of Markham and throughout York region there have been a number of events related to violence and gang-related crime in the last couple of the years, so

there's no question in my mind that no one community has a monopoly over this subject matter.

I want to say that this does not, in my mind, reflect in any negative way on the police services undertaken by York Regional Police. In fact, I know these

folks well. Under the leadership of Chief Armand LaBarge, we have Inspector Rouse of district number 5, which oversees the police services in my riding, also Superintendent Kalinsky and former

Inspector Eric Jolliffe. These, in my mind, are certainly the most fine and dedicated professionals, but they need help. They've actually done a number of programs in respect of community policing,

including the VIP program in elementary schools, the street beat program, as well as Neighbourhood Watch. These are effective but this is not enough.

I want to maybe speak to the aspect of being tough on the causes of crime. I think it's equally important for us to be as tough with crime as we should be

tough with causes of crime.

My colleagues from Scarborough Centre and Toronto-Danforth have alluded to the issue of poverty. Yes, definitely they are closely related, but it's much more

than that. It's also education, health and many other aspects. That's why I think it's important for us to take a comprehensive approach to tie various causes into our strategy.

There's been extensive research with respect to the funds that a government spends on prevention of crime as opposed to incarceration and rehabilitation The

research basically shows that it's a 1 to 3 ratio, meaning that every dollar we do not spend on prevention will lead to an expenditure of more than $3 subsequently. But it's not just a matter of

money. I think it's a matter of trying to be responsible, to help our youth, to help our residents to lead a good life and to be able to enjoy the quality of life they deserve. We have said, as a

government, a number of times that diversity is our strength, but with that also comes responsibility that we must deal with and take on.

I want to speak to one aspect of organized crime and again related crime, and that is on some of the new immigrant youth. It is one thing for us to say, "Gee,

now we have Russian gangs, Sri Lankan gangs, Chinese gangs," and so on, but a lot of these youth did not come into this country, day one, as a member of organized crime. It is basically because the

system has failed them. I think we must address the roots of the problem. In respect of that, we should really deal with issues of education, health, poverty, as well as settlement.

That is why our government has been so strong in chasing after the federal government to be fair to us on the $23-billion deficit. In order for us to help

immigrants to help their children, we need the resources. It is unfair for Ontario residents and their children to be without the funding they're entitled to.

It really is important for us to deal with the roots, especially for the youth, so that they do not become prey of organized crime as of day one. They become

prey after they have not received the support and services of our government and the federal government.

That is why I believe that this motion will actually highlight some issues related to causes of crime, and we should deal with them as effectively and

expeditiously as possible.

The Deputy Speaker: Member for Etobicoke North, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr. Qaadri: First of all I'd like to welcome, honour and appreciate the remarks made by my colleagues in this Legislature: the MPPs from

Simcoe North, Toronto-Danforth, Scarborough Centre, Don Valley West and Markham.

In reply specifically to the MPP from Simcoe North: There is much more than just media on this file; there's blood on this file. The issue of public safety and

violence is urgent, important, imminent, pressing, and also, to borrow some medical terminology, life-threatening.

As I've mentioned previously in this chamber, I had the unfortunate duty of attending three funerals this past summer of young individuals, young men who were

gunned down in the prime of life. Just as a case in point, the sum of their ages was 63.

That's why we as a government must move forward on a multi-pronged effort to be both tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime, whether we're dealing

with the flow of firearms, more specific measures to deal with gang-related offences, invoking the powers of the Attorney General regarding sentencing and empowering the criminal justice system,

whether we're forcing the medical and health communities to do mandatory gunshot reporting, and of course engaging our federal colleagues.

But at the same time, with the punishment aspect we must also upgrade and elevate society and move toward the Trudeauesque just society, whether it's engaging

youth and creating programs for community activities, sports or, ultimately, as my colleague from Don Valley West said, education, because that truly is the holistic cure for a prosperous and

non-violent society.

The Deputy Speaker: Thank you to all members. The time provided for private members' public business has now expired.

FOODLAND ONTARIO

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Ms. Wynne has moved private member's notice of motion number 1. Is it the pleasure of the House that

the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the nays have it.

We will call in the members for a vote on this after we have dealt with ballot item number 2.

CRIME PREVENTION

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Mr. Qaadri has moved private member's notice of motion number 2. Is it the pleasure of the House that

the motion carry?

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the nays have it.

We will call in the members on this as well. I remind the members that this is a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1201 to 1206.

FOODLAND ONTARIO

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Ms. Wynne has moved private members' notice of motion number 1. All those in favour will please

rise.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Barrett, Toby

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Colle, Mike

Duguid, Brad

Dunlop, Garfield

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gravelle, Michael

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ruprecht, Tony

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 37; the nays are zero.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion passed.

The doors will be unlocked for 30 seconds before we take the next vote.

CRIME PREVENTION

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Mr. Qaadri has moved private members' notice of motion number 2. All those in favour will please

rise.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Barrett, Toby

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Colle, Mike

Duguid, Brad

Dunlop, Garfield

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gravelle, Michael

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ruprecht, Tony

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 37; the nays are zero.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion passed.

All matters relating to private members' public business having now been dealt with, I do leave the chair. The House will resume at 1:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1210 to 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE REDUCTION WEEK

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I rise in the Legislature to bring greetings about Waste Reduction Week in Canada. It's intended

to raise public awareness about the waste we produce and its environmental and social costs. Today, the Recycling Council of Ontario hosts their Waste Minimization Awards to recognize those

contributing to a cleaner environment. The previous government's Waste Diversion Act is vital to the promotion of recycling, reducing and reusing waste.

Ontario's recycling effort is focused on the blue box program. However, the Coalition for an Efficient and Rational

Blue Box has questioned this government about the blue box system and has not received a response since they published their report in August.

Ontario households generate approximately 4.1 million tonnes of waste per year; 35% of this is dry recyclables like plastic, paper, glass and metal. In order

for the government to reach its 60% waste diversion target, the blue box system must be improved. Recovery rates for materials are far below what many Ontarians would expect. Newspapers fare well

-- they have a 75% recovery rate -- but only 41% of aluminum cans are recovered and plastics are only recovered 16% of the time.

Ontarians are seriously disappointed to learn that materials they put in their blue boxes are ending up in landfills. There is no indication of this government

improving the blue box program or making it more financially viable for rural and northern communities. This is just another example of this government's waste management strategy that is far from

amazing. It is nothing more than smoke and mirrors and avoids facing the problem of responsible waste management.

SUPPORT FOR

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): The countries of Pakistan, Afghanistan and India are far from Ontario, yet the great

tragedy that has occurred there and the response it has generated here make our communities seem much closer together. There are those of us directly affected, like Riaz Ahmed from my riding of

Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, who was fortunate to confirm that his extended family members were lucky survivors. There are also the extended communities, and when I say this, I mean not only

those Ontarians who can trace their family history back to South Asia but their friends, neighbours and colleagues as well.

Ontario is not a collection of isolated ethnic groups, language groups or religions. We are, all of us, part of one community. What affects one of us affects

us all, so when tragedy strikes one of us, we all respond.

It gives me great pride to see this province coming together to support our South Asian community. On October 10, Premier McGuinty announced an immediate

donation of $1 million on behalf of the people of Ontario to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. Our Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, the Honourable Mike

Colle, has demonstrated much leadership on this file, and I know he has been working diligently with my colleague Dr. Sheela Basrur to establish an earthquake response team.

Most impressive, however, has been the response from the citizens of this great province. I have been overwhelmed with the support my community has shown, and

this has been reciprocated across the province. This is what Ontario stands for. This is what we are all about.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): Ontarians know the McGuinty Liberal government was elected on the basis of critically important

promises that they have consistently failed to keep. One of these broken promises is in the nursing home sector. I'd like to read a motion recently passed by the board at Sherwood Park Manor, an

outstanding nursing home in my riding.

"Whereas the Liberal Party promised during the 2003 election campaign to increase funding to long-term-care homes by $6,000 per resident per annum; and

"Whereas funding for direct care and services to residents was increased in 2004 by $3.49, along with an increase of 75 cents for 2005, with the expectation

that homes increase the level of staffing; and

"Whereas funding for direct care and services to residents was increased in 2005 by $1, an increase which falls short of inflationary costs for long-term-care

homes; and

"Whereas these combined increases represent less than a third of the government's $6,000 promise; and

"Whereas significant investment is needed now to meet the significant needs of residents;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that this board urges the government to increase the per diem to residents of long-term-care homes in the fiscal year 2006-07 by

$4,083.75 per resident, thereby fulfilling its election promise."

I implore the government to heed that request and keep its promise to the nursing home sector. To do otherwise is a betrayal of the frail and elderly residents

of these homes.

TRANSPORTATION

Mr. David Zimmer (Willowdale): Since coming to office, our government has moved aggressively to improve Ontario's transportation systems.

These improvements are being realized in Willowdale. Just last month, Minister Takhar came personally to my riding of Willowdale to announce improvements to the Highway 401 and Yonge Street

interchange, a difficult and congested exchange for many years.

Our government has also invested $1.2 billion in our highway system. We have improved road safety. We have developed a construction strategy. This fall, our

government will increase investment in the 105 municipalities that have public transit to 1.5% of the provincial gas tax, totalling $214 million.

The residents in my riding understand our government's strong commitment to transit systems like the TTC. They understand this also represents our commitment

to a strong city of Toronto. It means that my constituents in Willowdale, and indeed in the GTA, can rest assured that our government is providing the TTC with the investments that it needs to

service this area.

When we came to office, we promised to create a new deal for municipalities. We are keeping that commitment. This investment demonstrates not only our

commitment to municipalities, but it sends a clear message to the rest of Ontario. We are committed to public transport that people can depend upon. I'm proud to be a member of a government

launching this initiative.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): Grey-Bruce Health Services' Markdale hospital is the only health care facility between Owen Sound and

Orangeville on the Highway 10 corridor, and serves almost 20,000 residents from the communities of Markdale, Flesherton, Dundalk and the surrounding rural areas. The hospital serves a vital role in

response to motor vehicle accidents and also responds to the seasonal needs of the area's dynamic skiing community. For the residents of Grey Highlands, the hospital offers 21 beds for in-patient

care, an obstetrical service, general surgery and plastic surgery, and employs 89 staff members.

These services are provided in a building that is functionally obsolete. Parts of this hospital are over 50 years old and, without major repairs, the facility

may only last two to three years more. Four accreditation surveys have recommended its replacement. Patient safety, patient confidentiality, operational efficiency and care delivery constraints are

driving the need to rebuild this hospital.

A new structure is planned for the Grey Gables site. The Centre Grey General Hospital Foundation is leading the redevelopment campaign to replace the current

hospital with a building that is efficient, will meet the current and future needs of the community and will serve to retain health professionals in the community. So far, the local campaign, led

by Dr. Hamilton Hall, has raised $13.1 million, well over their $12-million target.

I want to thank Ministers Smitherman and Caplan for agreeing to meet with me and Bill Murdoch and the hospitals officials in the near future to discuss

rebuilding the hospital. Today, I'm calling upon the Liberal government to do the right thing, the fair thing, and help us to rebuild our hospital --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

EDUCATION

Ms. Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): I rise today to discuss one of our government's great successes: the improvement of education in this

province. As was noted in the throne speech last week, "The brains and know-how of a highly skilled workforce are the economic edge of the 21st century." We recognize that when we strengthen the

education and skills of our people, we strengthen Ontario's economic advantage.

That is why I was thrilled to be asked by Mrs. MaryLou Smith from my riding to participate in a special educational module for 34 gifted students from the

Nipissing-Parry Sound Catholic District School Board. These students have travelled to Toronto and are studying the media in our society. They come from Mother St. Bride, Our Lady of Sorrows,

Corpus Christi, St. Hubert, St. Alexander, John XIII, St. Francis, Our Lady of Fatima, St. Theresa's and St. Joseph's. Today, they are visiting the CHUMCity station and have joined us here at

Queen's Park.

I would like to thank Richard Brennan of the Toronto Star for taking the time to provide these students with some great insights into the media here at Queen's

Park. I also want to thank Joe in the media studio for making it all possible for us.

It is programs like these that engage our young people and ensure that all of our students are meeting their potential. Congratulations to Mrs. Smith and her

fellow teachers and the 14 supervisors who have brought this initiative here to Queen's Park. Best of luck to our 34 students, and a big "Thank you" to the Badger for his participation. A warning

to you, Mr. Badger, and your colleagues in the press gallery: Take a good look in the public gallery today. You may be seeing the future.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): The people of Huron-Bruce were extremely pleased to hear that the provincial government and Bruce Power

have reached an agreement to produce over 1,500 megawatts of electricity capacity. The refurbishment of Bruce A units 1 and 2 is expected to create 1,500 construction jobs. The people who work and

live in the area have been anxiously awaiting this announcement, and I am proud to say that the McGuinty government has delivered.

The firm support from investors in Bruce Power, such as TransCanada Corp., the Ontario municipal employees retirement board, Power Workers' Union and the

Society of Energy Professionals shows their confidence in the future of this energy source. This project will provide jobs not only in Huron and Bruce counties but throughout Ontario. Suppliers for

this project will come from various cities across the province, such as Mississauga, Pickering, Oakville, Niagara Falls and Cambridge.

This announcement demonstrates once again that this government is committed to meeting Ontario's electricity needs, including a reliable supply mix of energy.

If you drive down Highway 21 from Bruce Power, new wind turbines are being erected in Huron county. Further south in Middlesex county, new technology: anaerobic digestion.

I am pleased to be a part of a government that is committed to providing a sufficient supply --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

INDUSTRIE FORESTIÈRE

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-Baie James): On sait qu'aujourd'hui il y a une conférence de presse ici à Queen's Park avec les

représentants des syndicats qui représentent bien proche de 100 000 travailleurs à travers cette province dans l'industrie forestière.

On sait que non seulement les travailleurs mais aussi les communautés, et je dirais l'industrie elle-même, sont franchement fâchés contre

ce gouvernement pour ne pas avoir répliqué au désastre qu'on trouve présentement dans l'industrie forestière -- pas seulement au nord de l'Ontario mais à travers cette

province.

On sait, par exemple, que l'industrie forestière représente, pour les gouvernements fédéral, provincial et municipaux, près de

1 $ milliard de taxes qu'on collecte de cette industrie directement à cause de ses activités.

On sait qu'il y a environ 275 000 travailleurs dans cette province qui sont employés directement ou indirectement dans cette industrie, et on sait

que ce gouvernement, jusqu'à cette date, n'a pas répliqué aux problèmes de l'industrie. Franchement, ils ont laissé tomber cette industrie-là et ils n'ont pas

répondu à ses besoins. On se demande, dans l'industrie, pour quelle raison. Pourquoi est-ce que le gouvernement décide que c'est important de répliquer aux difficultés de

l'industrie automobile et des autres, mais qu'il n'est pas préparé à répliquer aux problèmes qu'on a dans l'industrie forestière?

Cet après-midi, on va avoir un débat sur une motion d'opposition de notre leader, M. Hampton, du parti néo-démocratique. Je demande

aux membres du gouvernement de payer attention et de faire quelque chose pour aider --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Merci. Thank you.

GROWTH PLANNING

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): When we passed our greenbelt and Places to Grow legislation, we made the commitment to stop urban sprawl and encourage

growth in regions other than the GTA. In my riding of Brant, we are experiencing first-hand the significant positive changes that the greenbelt legislation and the Places to Grow legislation is

offering the residents of Ontario, particularly the constituents of my riding. Thank you to Ministers Caplan and Gerretsen for their leadership on this file.

We are in a great location to move goods and people all around southern Ontario. As Walter Gretzky put it, "Brantford is the centre of the universe."

The construction of the Ferrero manufacturing plant is close to completion, which will create up to 800 jobs in the first phase alone, further strengthening my

region's economy. On October 8, municipal politicians from Brant and Brantford, accompanied by a representative from the Ministry of Agriculture, travelled to Italy to speak with Ferrero's head

office about further expansion and to find new investment opportunities for the region that they have shown an interest in.

I would like to extend a special thanks to Minister Takhar for his leadership in facilitating industrial growth in Brant by expanding the Oak Park interchange.

This will allow developers, businesses and industries to expand into Brantford and take full advantage of our location, access to post-secondary education and highly skilled and motivated

workforce.

I don't know that there's anyone in this House who would disagree with the father of the Great One that Brantford really is the centre of the universe. I

appreciate this opportunity.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I would like to draw members' attention to the members' west gallery and introduce a friend and

colleague, Larry O'Connor, who represented the riding of Durham-York in the 35th Parliament.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: In the visitors' gallery today are some of the brightest young people you

are ever going to meet. They are students, faculty and family from École élémentaire Nouvel Horizon in Welland.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm very pleased today that we have a

chapter of the Red Hat Society, a

group that represents ladies from across the country and the world, and these are the Red Hot Mamma's on Georgian Bay. Please give them a warm round of applause.

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I ask members to help me welcome to the Legislature today Councillor Bill

Boston and his wife Elizabeth -- Bill is on council in Adjala-Tosorontio -- and their friends and my friends Patrick Oliver and Philomena Oliver.

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: On a point of order. It's Thursday.

Mr. Qaadri: Thank you, Speaker. With your indulgence, I would invite the House to recognize the South Asian Rexdale Sikh seniors who join us

in the gallery above.

The Speaker: Welcome to everyone.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I rise in the House today to update members on the issue of extending daylight saving time in this

province.

This past summer, the United States government passed a law in an energy bill that, among other things, extends daylight saving time by four weeks starting in

March 2007. Because of this decision and because of Ontario's extensive and inextricable links with the United States, Ontario had to decide if we, too, should make such a move.

I want to make it clear that Ontario does not automatically move in lockstep with the United States on this or any other issue. The test is always what is best

for Ontario.

To that end, back in July, we created an interministerial committee led by my esteemed parliamentary assistant, the member for Willowdale, David Zimmer. He led

the group's investigation into the potential impact that extending daylight saving time could have on Ontario. Over the past three months, Mr. Zimmer and his committee have consulted with all

levels of government on the matter. They have also met with and heard from the concerns of a broad range of stakeholders representing a number of sectors, including education, energy, agriculture,

finance and capital markets, trade and manufacturing, industry, public safety and transportation. They did a lot of work and they did a great job.

The results of the consultations were overwhelmingly supportive of taking action to ensure that Ontario's daylight saving time regime remains synchronized with

that of the United States. Representatives from finance and capital markets, trade, manufacturing and industry unanimously urged us to harmonize daylight saving with the US. In fact, they told us

that any misalignment could have a very real