Manitoba Hansard — 19 April 2018 (Sitting 37B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-37b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 37B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 19, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant St. Boniface

1583 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 19, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 215–The Election Financing Amendment Act Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member from The Maples, that Bill 215, The Election Financing Amendment Act, be now introduced a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: This bill simply takes the campaign finance limit from $5,000 to $1,575, which is the limit that is used federally.

It was $3,000, but, Madam Speaker, there has been very few MLAs –in fact, almost none –that have ever maxed out or even gone over the $2,000 limit. So it seems appropriate to bring it to what has become the consensus across the country. And I know that some MLAs would like a refund from their donation of last year as well. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports?

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sustainable Development, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings wa s provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable member please proceed with her statement. Earth Day Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I rise to note that this Sunday is Earth Day. Earth Day is the day when we recognize how important and indispensable our ecosystems are to our health and well -being.

Celebration of this day is significant in educating our younger generations and raising awareness among our citizens with a key message. It reminds us that conservation of nature is fundamental to our quality of life and, indeed, to our very existence as human beings. Earth Day has a vibrant history. At a UNESCO conference in San Francisco held in 1969, peace activist John McConnell proposed a day to honour our earth and the concept of peace to be first celebrated on March 21st, 1970, the first day of spring in the northern hemisphere.

A month later, a separate Earth Day was founded by US senator, Gaylord Nelson, to be celebrated on April 22nd, 1970. Earth Day is now celebrated by more than 1 billion people every year in more than 190 countries. This year, the Earth Day theme relates to ending plastic pollution. Scientists assert that plastic waste has tremendous negative impacts on marine life, beaches, landscapes, communities and more. Now, every minute on Earth, nearly two million single -use plastic bags are distributed worldwide, and 1 million plastic bottles are purchased. This number is expected to top a half a trillion by 2021.

It is estimated around 8 million tons of plastic waste winds up in the earth's oceans each and every year. We must educate and activate Manitobans by working together with producers, educational institutions and environmental groups to minimiz e plastic pollution through reducing, reusing and recycling plastics. We are committed to maintaining our unique ecosystems that we inherited from our past generations for the benefit of present and future Manitobans.

Our government has already put forward a comprehensive and dynamic Made-in-Manitoba Climate and Green Plan, which is founded on four pillars: the climate, jobs, water and nature. We have a bold vision to make Manitoba Canada's cleanest, greenest and most climate-resilient province. We all have to work together to make this a reality. I must congratulate the organizers of events here in Manitoba, including Fort Whyte Alive, Oak Hammock Marsh Interpretive Centre, Manitoba Children's Museum, Downtown Winnipeg BIZ and Science Teachers' Asso ciation of Manitoba.

These events help us think about the fundamental shifts we

1584 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 can undertake in our daily lives that can help make a difference to improve our province and our planet. We will continue our efforts to make Manitoba clean and green by furthering efforts in waste management and recycling, and I encourage fellow Manitobans to join me in enjoying the day with families and friends, and show Mother Earth our love with renewed commitment to protect Manitoba's valued ecosystems. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, happy Earth Day to you and to everyone in the Chamber, to all Manitobans.

For many of us we strive to make every day Earth Day, and I certainly appreciate the tone that the minister has brought for ward. I think it would give all of us much more to celebrate if this government's actions on a day -to-day basis reflected the importance of Earth Day and the message that it contains. The minister referenced the so -called plan that they have brought forw ard and four different categories. Well, let's review those very quickly.

On the jobs front, there was an opportunity this morning for this government to step forward and help landlords and tenants together to fix up our aging building stock, reduce our consumption of utilities and save everyone money. Instead, this government spoke the bill out, wiping out the opportunity to create thousands of more green jobs here in Manitoba. On climate, the government is going to be charging a carbon tax but not providing anyone with new opportunities or programs to reduce their emissions.

They're also using a phony accounting system so that their emissions will be counted multiple times for the same action and they're going to ignore any increases in emissions that occur elsewhere in the economy. And let's not leave out transit. Two years ago, this government was facing the election that all of us were in. Not a single time did they mention they would be cutting funding from the Province to all municipal transit services across Manitoba. So that's jobs, that's climate.

Quickly on water: Where did they tell everyone that under their privatization of the provincial fishery four fish sheds within the first month would lose up to a million dollars and some of those Manitoba fish would be exported in a, quote, brown liquid goo substance, to the United States? Also on water: How about the poor mayor of Gimli, who has taken offense to this government's timeline of 27 years for the City of Winnipeg to fix up the combined sewer program? And let's finish with waste, which the minister was referencing.

In the legislation they ha ve brought forward under Bill 16 there is not a single mandate for new waste reduction initiatives. This government has a long way to go. Again, I appreciate the tone that the minister brought forward, but her government's track record leaves so much to be desired. We will be here to expose their flaws, to propose creative solutions and to oppose this government's current direction when it comes to environmental sustainability in Manitoba. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to speak to the statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, today more than one million people will take

part in the largest day of action in the world. This year's theme we focus on a worldwide epidemic of plastic waste. Plastic water bottles and shopping bags continue to be used widely and discarded in spite of the knowledge that they do not degrade in landfills. Vast numbers wash up on beaches all over the world. They slowly break down over time into smaller particles, many of which can be carcinogenic, causing life- threatening cancers, or affect human hormones, causing early puberty as well as having effects on waterfowl, fish and the–and our ecosphere.

Several times in the past decade Liberals have called for the elimination in Manitoba of single -use plastic checkout bags and we also call for a drastic reduction in water bottle use. The goal is to reduce our dependence on polluting pla stic bags and polyethylene water bottles, and yet they are still widely used. We see more and more evidence of major problems with plastic and the environment. One million plastic bottles are bought around the world every minute and that number is expected to jump by

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1585 200,000 more by 2021. That's 1,200,000 water bottles per minute every day worldwide, creating an environmental crisis some predict could be as serious as climate change. * (13:40) Earth Day is a delay of political action and civic participation. Let us act today to stop using single-use plastic bags and dramatically reduce our use of plastic water bottles. Save our planet. It is our home.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with his statement. Education Week Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker and honour able members of the Manitoba Legislature, it is my pleasure to rise in the House today to invite all Manitobans to recognize the importance of education in our communities and to celebrate this week as Education Week in Manitoba.

Education Week provides us with an opportunity to take a moment and turn our attention to the excellent educators and schools we have in Manitoba. Many of us have spent time in classrooms learning the intricacies of literacy and numeracy, which is fundamental to all learning. Thi s allows us to understand, to create, to communicate and to interact with others and the world around us. We do not learn these things on our own. These literacy and numeracy life skills become our own through the guidance and perseverance, talents and sup port of educators and educational leaders in our schools and community.

Madam Speaker, this government values our educators in Manitoba, so we are pleased to invite all of us to take this opportunity to extend appreciation to those who know –who we know ar e involved in educational system. Our government recognizes a strong education system is important part of how we build a stronger Manitoba. We know that our young people will determine the future of our province, so that they deserve our best effort. That is why we're investing in priorities to support improved education for our students.

Some of these highlights include early learning initiatives, enhancing early school educator training and seeking greater alignment with the cradle-to-careers approach of education. We co-creating a long -term literacy and numeracy strategy based on the feedback we received from Manitobans who participated in our literacy and numeracy summit. In March, we released the Manitoba College Review, which highlighted several opportunities to enhance and modernize college education in our province by building on existing strength.

We plan to work together, implementing several key recommendations and work with others to develop long- term. These are just some of the highlights of how our government and how staff in Manitoba Education and Training are working in partnership with educators and educational stakeholders to help foster a culture of innovation and quality education here in Manitoba. This week and every week, ed ucators and educational organizations are engaging in important discussions on how to work together and support student learning.

I encourage all Manitobans to take this opportunity to thank them and celebrate the great work that our schools, communities a nd provinces are accomplishing. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I stand to recognize Education Week and recognize and thank those incredible educators in the classrooms throughout our province, including those from Kildonan- East Collegiate who once again join us here in the gallery today. Our caucus certainly understands the value that full access to quality education has for children and youth.

We know that a solid foundation in school leads to successful leaders in our province. Unfortunately, the Pallister government is failing its obligation to our students. Their budget for K -to-12 schools is less than the growing rate of enrolment, let alone that of inflation. School divisions are forced to make impossible choices li ke cutting educational assistance or delaying much-needed maintenance and renovations. The Pallister government's approach to education means cuts to the resources our kids need to succeed. We also are very concerned that the Pallister government is lettin g class sizes grow.

During the election, it was the Pallister government that said that class sizes mattered as a factor to improve educational opportunities. But, as soon as they took the reins, they cancelled the good work being done to reduce those clas s sizes. The results

1586 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 are obvious: growing class sizes and less one -on-one time with teachers for our kids. When the Pallister government took office, they cancelled construction projects across the province. Hundreds of millions of dollars in capital projects – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –were cancelled. Instead of moving forward on important new school projects that were coming forward, they dithered and they delayed. Similarly, for the first time in a generation – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Wiebe: –the budget for post -secondary education has seen an absolute reduction. As a result, students will see their tuition s rise by 7 per cent, nearly 7 per cent every year for the foreseeable future. In just a few short years, tui tion will have climbed by over $1,000, wiping out the effectiveness of many bursaries and making accessible education that much harder for thousands of Manitobans. It's all smoke and mirrors with th is Pallister government. They took over $60 million out of the hands–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Wiebe: –of post-secondary students when they cancelled the Tuition Fee Income Tax Rebate that encourages post -secondary students and supports new graduates to stay here in Manitoba. We know that investments in education help our children and prepare them to succeed in the future. Our NDP team will continue to support funding education and provide the necessary resources for our children to be successful. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to speak to the minister's statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, it is Education Week. I thank Manitoba teachers and other staff for their hard work, their dedication and their commitment to providing students with the best possible education, and parents for supporting this effort. Manitoba Liberals believe that our children's education at all levels, pr imary, secondary and post-secondary is the key to our future. Yet, halfway through their four -year mandate, this government has done little to improve Manitoba's education system.

The Pallister government has shown no leadership on indigenous education is sues when graduation rates for indigenous students are at an alarmingly low rate of 48 per cent. Instead of working collaboratively with Manitoba teachers to build a stronger education system, the PCs have blindsided them with a zero per cent pay increase and reductions in support. This government cuts to francophone services and education have put 50 years of progress in French language education in Manitoba at risk, even as the number of children in French education is rising. Today, we need future -thinking ideas, not cuts.

That is why I am hosting a forum in River Heights on April 29th on the future of primary and secondary education in Manitoba . You're all welcome–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: –to come. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Order. I'll ask for everybody's co -operation. We have a lot of guests in the gallery, including students, and normally during ministerial statements I don't think we hear this much noise. Respect is to be given to members as they speak on these iss ues and I would ask for everybody's co-operation. Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wonder if I could ask for leave to respond to the ministerial statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. An Honourable Member: No. Madam Speaker: I did hear a no. Leave is denied. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Elder Jack Robinson Mr. Kelly Bindle (Thompson): Madam Speaker, many indigenous people of all ages in Manitoba are

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1587 learning about, embracing and reconnecting with their culture. In doing so, they gain– Madam Speaker: Oh, pardon me. Sorry. The honourable member for The Maples. Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask for leave if I can speak on this minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to revert back to ministerial statements? [Agreed] MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS (Continued) Education Week (Continued) Madam Speaker: And is there leave now for the member for The Maples to address the ministerial statement? [Agreed] * (13:50) Mr.

Mohinder Saran (The Maples): This is a very important issue for me and for my constituents and especially immigrant communities. All the education institutions, they have other languages, especially indigenous langua ges, in these schools are taught. B ut Punjabi, which is the third language in Canada, and also Tagalog, which is second language in Manitoba, they are not being taught in the schools. And I ask many times , those languages should be third language , which could be compulsory and optional.

Compulsory means third – students should not be graduated until they have third language and– but they can have any third language, either Ukrainian, Tagalog, Punjabi, whatever, they can have. And I hope this is worth it, to spend money, for this government, to think about the other cultures, because we want our children can learn about other cultures and other languages. And it will be beneficial for the government to deal with the other countries . T he children born over here – they've been–they become adult, they will be able to talk in those languages better, have better business.

And also, although we are getting two schools in The Maples, which are already –were approved , previous government, but then I was afraid they may not be approved again. But I thank the minister for that. But I will also ask the minister: We need one high school in The Maples, too, because that area is expanding. So I would request that, too. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Member's statements; the honourable–oh–the honourable member for River Heights? Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, Madam Speaker, I would ask in fairness if there was a possibility of returning to the ministerial statement to ask Steven Fletcher to give– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: –point out to the member that, when rising, if he was rising on a point of order it should have been indicated as such. And he also mentioned the member by name, and the rules of the House do not allow that to happen in the House. So is the –does the memb er want to reiterate , then, on a point of order? Point of Order Mr. Gerrard: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

I would ask, in fairness, if we could revisit the possibility of the member from Assiniboia speaking on the minister's statement. Madam Spea ker: Is there leave to allow the member for Assiniboia to speak on the minister's statement? [Agreed] * * * Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I'd like to thank all the members of the House for their accommodation, Madam Speaker, and the member for River Heights for his sense of fairness. And that's one of the things we learn early on in life through the school system, is fairness. Fairness to opportunity. Fairness to reach our full potential in life.

Fairness in how we deal with each other, our friends, our enemies and our colleagues. Fairness. Madam Speaker, education is the best investment society can make in an individual, and the best investment an individual can make in themselves. Education is a lifelong process. I've been very fortunate to have been a product of the Manitoba public school system, a proud graduate of Shaftesbury High School and went to our local university. Did engineering; I graduated and did an MBA after my accident. And I only raise that because education is something that, once you have it, nobody can take it away.

They can take your

1588 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 money; they can take your property. You may lose people you love. Friends may disappear. But you will always have your education. And that is why, of all the public spending that we do in government, the best return –the most important –is investing in our young people and anyone who wants to invest the time to learn and educate themselves at any age. Madam Speaker, education is just not attending school; it's about a way of life. It's about living to your full potential.

Education is one of the most Canadian things that we can do and we should provide the opportunity for everyone to have an education, and for those who don't have that opportunity, and the indigenous communities seem to have–there seems to be a lot of challenges in that area and we need to invest– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS (Continued) Elder Jack Robinson (Continued) Mr. Kelly Bindle (Thompson): Madam Speaker, many indigenous people of all ages in Manitoba are learning about embracing and reconnecting with their culture.

In doing so they gain personal strength, pride and a sense of belonging that brings hope and joy into their lives. They are gai ning this knowledge through teachings shar ed by elders like Jack Robinson who are committed to helping anyone interested to learn more a bout indigenous history, belief and culture. Elder Jack Robinson knows first hand the positive transformative power that cultural understanding and acceptance can have in saving people from despair and hopelessness. Jack was born and raised in Norway House. His father was Metis from Norway House and his mother Cree from Cross Lake.

He is a member of the Cross Lake Cree N ation. H e belongs to the T hunderbird clan and he has lived in Thompson for going on 20 years now. Just over 20 years ago, after having lived in The Pas working as a paralegal for eight years, Jack lost everything he valued in life to addiction. Feeling desperate and hopeless, he decided to retreat to living in the bush for two years and sought teachings from five elders who helped him reconnect with his culture. That decision saved his life and he has now built a life full of joy and meaning.

Madam Speaker, Jack has been working at the Ma-Mow-We-Tak Friendship Centre in Thompson for the past 19 years, sharing his story, reconnecting indigenous people with their culture and bringing hope to countless young people. Jack's message is clear: there is always hope. Jack keeps himself busy connecting people to nature and culture through ceremonies and teachings. His seven children have provided him with nine grandchildren and four great-grandchildren, all of whom he takes great pride in. Jack is well known throughout the North as genuine, humble and sincere with a wonderful sense of humor.

He was telling me he me t his partner Maryann Denechezhe, a Dene from Lac Brochet, when he was up there hunting caribou one time. Now, when he goes back to Brochet , they tease him saying, you come back here after taking four of our caribou and one of our wom en, you are one brave Cree. Please join me in welcoming my brave friend, Elder Jack Robinson, to the Chamber today and recognizing him for his dedication to helping people. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: For the record, technically I need to point out that the member for River Heights did not have a point of order earlier on in the day.

Manitoba Maple Syrup Festival Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I had the pleasure of attending the 2018 Manitoba Maple Syrup Festival this past weekend in McCreary , a town that is designated as the Maple Syrup Capital of Manitoba. In its sixth year, this event continues to grow and draw people from many parts of the province , offering a glimpse of rural life and Manitoba heritage to urban attendees as well as new Canadians. The festival highlights the long history of maple syrup sugar tapping that wa s initiated by our First Nations and Metis peoples of the area.

Local volunteers share the history and the knowledge of sugar tapping and help visitors understand the relationship of the people to the trees, the land and the i mportance of maple sugar to our culture. The weekend event typically attracts 400 to 500 visitors to the area , bringing families together and getting residents active and outdoors. With a variety of festivities offered over the weekend , there was something for everyone to see, touch, listen to and of course many sweet things to taste.

Many local businesses, clubs and organizations came together to market their products, provide food a s well as entertainment or share their time in volunteer hours.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1589 * (14:00) I would like to recognize a nd thank the Manitoba maple sugar festival board, committee members and volunteers that are present with us here today: Pam Little, Bernice Dillman, Debbie Johnson, Bob and Betty Ann Gass, Amanda and Justin Asham and Claude Desrosiers. Thank you for your vision and your commitment to the festival and the investment in your community of McCreary.

Madam Speaker, I ask that all mem bers of the House join me in congratulating the Manitoba maple sugar festival board members, staff and the many volunteers that participated in this weekend's celebration. Madam Speaker, I ask that the members of – names of those in attendance be placed in Hansard. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names of all those in attendance in Hansard? [Agreed] Manitoba Maple Syr up Festival: Amanda Asham, Justin Asham, Claude Desrosier s, Bernice Dillman, Betty Ann Gass, Bob Gass, Debbie Johnson, Pam Little Sharon Taylor Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Over the years, it has been a pleasure to work alongside a woman of incredible humility and full of passion. Sharon Taylor, a long- time activist, has made many contributions to the Wolseley and West Broadway community. In a month Sharon will be entering creative retirement, leaving behind great accomplishments and big shoes to fill, one of Sharon's greatest being Wolseley Family Place. For over 20 years, Wolseley Family Place has fostered the development of healthy moms, healthy babies and healthy families within our community.

Wolseley Family Place started when Sharon identified a lack of resources for young single mothers after they gave birth. She founded it from scratch, relying on her network of friends, colleagues and users to go from a small hallway operation to the centre that now has 30,000 visits each and every year. With Sharon's priority being accessibility and accommodation for all, she relied upon participants for guidance and direction. She listened to what they were saying and set out to help them reach their fullest potential with holistic programming and services to combat the systemic poverty that they face.

Wolseley Family Place now offers parenting, nutrition, crafting and athletic programming, to name just a few, as well as an on -site nurse practitioner. This unique approach ensures that Wolse ley Family Place succeeded and grew. A common theme for the users of Wolseley Family Place is poverty. For Sharon, it has always been difficult to understand how we live in such a rich world and continue to have poverty, how, if society truly values child ren, why aren't we feeding and housing them properly? These are questions and battles she will never stop fighting.

Sharon's working career has been a gift, a wonderful journey, and she prides herself on having had the opportunity to work with people whom society would call the marginalized. I know her journey isn't over yet by far. She will certainly not be forgotten anytime soon in Wolseley or West Broadway. Her presence will continue, and she will find new causes to fight for. The Sharon I know will ne ver be silent or stagnant. She will continue to work towards changing society's views to value people over profit.

I invite all members of the Chamber to join me in congratulating and thanking Sharon for her amazing service to our community. Madam Speaker, if I may, Sharon has a number of friends and colleagues who have joined her. I respectfully ask that their names be included in Hansard as well. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Sharon Taylor, Dina Juras, Valerie Gompf, Bev Gray, Kathy Stracha n, Noelle Campbell, Carol Opaleke Hutterian Emergency Aquatic Response Team Mr.

Cliff Graydon (Emerson): The Hutterian Emergency Aquatic Response Team, HEART, is a group of volunteer divers from Oak Bluff Hutterite Colony and from Steinbach who specialize in underwater search and recovery operations of drowning victims. The team was started four years ago in response to two recent drowning tragedies in Hutterite colonies where they felt that the timely recovery of the drowning victims was inadequate. Although the team is very small and they have limited equipment and technology, they're constantly upgrading their

1590 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 training and capabilities at time –as time and funding permits. HEART has been involved in some recent recoveries of drowning victims. In July of 2016, a 16-year-old, Travis Bauman, from Plum Coulee, Manitoba drowned when he dove into the churning flood waters of a flooded spillway and didn't resurface. After more than a day of unsuccessful searching by the RCMP and local fire departments, HEART was called to help with the search.

The HEART divers braved the swift flowing flood waters and conducted a thorough search of the creek bottom in zero visibility, located and recovered the body of Travis. Last summer, HEA RT was called by Shady Lane Colony in northeastern Alberta to help in the search for a 16 year old, Jerald Tschetter, who was swept away by the fast currents of the Smokey River. The team drove non- stop for over 20 hours from Morris to get on site and spen t three days diving the swift waters until his body was finally found.

So far, HEART is entirely funded by donations from partner colonies, businesses and from individuals using their GoFundMe page. Besides continually upgrading their skills and expertise, HEART divers are actively educating colony children in promoting swimming and water safety by presenting at farm days. They have also been invited to present at a Hutterite Farm Safety Day in Saskatchewan in June. In conclusion, I would ask all my colleagues to welcome and congratulate the HEART team for their volunteering that they do. Madam Speaker, I ask for permission to have the names of the team included in Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Hutterian Emergency Aquatic Response Team: Adrian Maendel, Brendan Maendel, Jack Maendel, Manuel Maendel, Paul Maendel, Tyler Maendel, Brent Stoesz Geo-Positioning of Ambulances Hon. Jon Gerrar d (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I rise to talk about the government's approach to geo- positioning ambulances at sites which are far away from the communities they serve. The government's approach would have paramedics and ambulances positioned around t he clock at what are called geo -positioned sites derived from a computer.

These sites are often a considerable distance from any community and where population density is low. While paramedics are positioned at these sites they are waiting for emergency calls, but are not able to contribute in other ways to health care because they are some distance from any community. The alternative, Madam Speaker, is exemplified by the situations in Boissevain and Grandview. Here, close to the highest local population density and, in particular, the highest density of seniors who are the most likely to need an ambulance for heart attacks or strokes, paramedics are stationed in the community.

Because the ambulance station is within or close to the hospital complex, param edics contribute to care within the hospital when there's not an emergency call for them to attend. This is helpful and adds to the quality of health care that's available. Average ambulance response times are quick. I'm told it is only six minutes in Boi ssevain. I'm also told having the paramedics and ambulances on call and available during the night in town works well in Boissevain.

I ask the government to do what Reg Toews suggested in his report: complete a full consultation with people before committ ing to implementing the geo-positioning system. It may work well for Nova Scotia, but may not be optimum for health care in Manitoba. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. We have, seated in the public gallery from Kildonan-East Collegiate 25 grade 9 students under the direction of Kim Way, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe).

On behalf of all members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Rural ER Closures Government Intention Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): In December, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) said that he may close some hospitals in rural Manitoba. That was nearly 5 months ago now, and many people across rural Manitoba are still wondering if the emergency rooms, the emergency

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1591 departments in their home communities are in fact going to be shuttered by this government. People in St. Pierre Jolys would like to know that , if there's an accident on the highway, whether or not there's going to be a hospital in town. People in Eriksdale would like to know if there is going to be health- care services in their community for today and also for tomorrow. Now, we've asked the Premier (Mr. Pallister) several times in Estimates to answer these questions and he refuses.

So I'd ask the Minister of Health: When does he plan to close emergency departments in rural Manitoba? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition might remember, because it was, well, only two years ago that they were in government, but then Manitobans decided t o go a different way. So happy anniversary to my colleagues on their two– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Goertzen : But he might remember, at that time, that the NDP had closed dozens, in fact 20 emergency rooms across rural Manitoba over their time in government.

In fact, when I came in as Minister of Health, I was told that there were temporarily closed ERs that had been temporarily closed for 15 years, Madam Speaker. * (14:10) That was the legacy of that government: temporarily closing emergency rooms and health - care facilities for almost two decades. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: In the two years that I've been here, I've only seen this Minister of Health close hospitals: closed the emergency department at Victoria General, closed the urgent care at Misericordia.

But, again, this is his Premier, the Premier that he serves under–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –that has said he w ants to close rural emergency departments. We know that in their wait times report that they recommended that many rural emergency departments be transformed to non- emergency department function. You could 'interpretate' that – interpret that as a directive to closure. Now, they did set out a standard that rural EDs with less than 12 level ones or 200 level twos should be considered for closure.

However, when the media analyzed that, when they looked at that they found that that would mean that potenti ally the majority of emergency departments in Westman could potentially be targeted for closure. So I'd ask the minister again: Now, when is he going to tell the people of western Manitoba whether or not he plans to close emergency departments in their communities? Mr. Goertzen: Well, Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition started off by talking about what he's seen in two years. One of the things he' s seen is the reduction of wait times in emerg ency rooms in Winnipeg.

Year after year after year, the wait times increased in Winnipeg under the former NDP government. They shovelled more money at it and the wait times went at–went up. They had task force, and the wait -times went up. They couldn't solve the problem, Madam Speaker. Now there's much more work to do, but for the first time in a long time there' s a sustained reduction in wait times in emergency rooms in Winnipeg. We're working to fix the problem. That member has no solutions other than shovel more money at the problem. It didn't work before. It won't work now, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Well, the minister's shovellin g, but I don't think it's money. Keeps digging himself deeper, because we know that there has not been a sustained reduction in wait -times. In fact, since he started closing emergency departments and urgent cares the wait times have been going up. But, again, this question was about their plans to close rural emergency departments. We've seen that recommendation there in black and white. It puts a question mark over many of the emergency departments across Westman.

Now, that leaves people in communities like Grandview and Boissevain to wonder, if they lose their emergency room –and this is what they've

1592 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 shared with me, this is a real concern–if they lose the emergency room, are they going to lose the doctors who work in those communities as well? And if they lose doctors in those communities, that's a real hit to the long-term health of a community like Grandview or Boissevain. So when will the minister tell the residents of Westman whether or not he plans to close emergency departments in their communities? Mr. Goertzen: While the member follows rhetoric, we follow evidence, and that's bearing out in the results that we're getting.

When the NDP left government two years ago, Madam Speaker, there was more than 100 people , each and every day, in Winnipeg hospitals waiting to get into personal -care homes. The y were blocking the system, but more importantly than that , they were people who really should have been in a more appropriate place to get care. So we brought in transitional care, transitional housing and, in fact, now we see that there–as of yesterday –were only nine, only nine people in Winnipeg waiting to get into a personal-care home from the hospital.

But, of course, the NDP and the Leader of the Opposition, they voted against that. Why did they vote against it? Because there was some private care involved. They followed their union leaders, their union bosses. They continue to do that, they'll be in opposition for a long time, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Request to Withdraw Bill 27 Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We can see clearly the priorities of this Premier (Mr. Pallister) and this government.

We see that tuition is going up, the cost of transit is going up, the price of hydro will go up. We know that the cost of filling u p a tank of gas will also go up. And how many bills has this government brought in to keep hydro and to keep gas prices affordable? Zero. Now, how many bills has this government brought in to protect their salaries since they've been elected?

Three, Madam Speaker, three bills to protect their salaries, ever more complicated schemes now involving derivatives and multi -year predictions which will allow them to get a big six -figure payday some time in the future, even after they lose the next election. This shows the disconnection between this Premier (Mr. Pallister) and the real priorities of Manitobans, Manitobans who deserve to have an affordable cost of living. So that is why I'm proud to announce that we are going to delay passage of Bill 27, also known as– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): It feels a little weird in here. It must be a full moo n or something, but we have an Opposition Leader for the former NDP government talking about the fact that he is afraid that costs are going up. When that –when they were in government, they presided over years and years of costs going up on Manitobans. Failure to index tax bra ckets, failure to raise the BPA; they raised the PST from 7 to 8 per cent. They bring–didn't bring tax relief. They presided over $17 billion of Hydro capital investments.

They rushed it past the PUB and now rates are going up as a result of NDP poor planning and interference, and they say costs are going up. This government will stand up for Manitobans and a fairer deal on cos ts and household affordability. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Like to thank the Minister of Finance for confirming that costs are going up as a result of him passing repeated bills to protect the salaries of those sitting around the Cabinet table.

So as I was getting to, we are going to delay Bill 27, also known as the government salary protection act of 2018, the reason being we think Manitobans deserve more time to learn about these bizarre legislative moves that the government is bringing in to hold on to their salaries. Again, they're proposing a move where they would be able to be repaid ma ny, many years in the future, tens of thousands of dollars, perhaps even more than a hundred–perhaps more than $100,000 at some–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1593 Mr. Kinew: –day in the future, even if they lose the next election. So it would be better if they withdrew Bill 27, but in the absence of that we will hold it over. So I'd ask the Minister of Finance: Is he prepared to withdraw the bill and bring forward real legislation to the floor that reflects the real priorities of the people of Manitoba?

Madam Speaker: Over the last number of days I have been asking for co- operation on the floor of this Chamber, and I have asked very respectfully if everybody would please respect our level of decorum here and that when people are asking questions and answering that we please give them the opportunity to be heard in a respectful and a civil manner. I would ask the member for Point Douglas (Mrs. Smith) and the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko) to please be co -operative as we are trying very hard to ensure that everybody is heard in this Chamber in a respectful manner.

Everybody will get a chance at some point to have their say. But I would ask everybody's co -operation to please heed the efforts that are made to decrease heckling and the kind of provocative types of comments that are starting to pervade our Chamber. Mr. Friesen: Well, thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank the member for the question. He's helped to clear things up because now we clearly understand. Bill 27 is The Fiscal Respons ibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act. No wonder he's opposing it, Madam Speaker. This is

an act that is designed to bring accountability where there was none under the NDP. What was said about the failure to make progress on behalf of the NDP aga inst the deficit? It was, continues to disappoint; it was, continues to miss the mark; it was, target fatigue. * (14:20) Madam Speaker, this bill is designed to provide accountability to make sure that government keeps its foot on the gas when it comes to eliminating the deficit. We're ahead of schedule. On behalf of all Manitobans, we're going to keep going. Why do they not get on board for measures designed to bring accountability?

Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: I appreciate that the Minister of Finance has to try and sell this bill to his backbenchers, but the real priorities of Manitobans are things like keeping hydro rates affordable, keeping tuit ion affordable, ensuring that a carbon price actually goes to help people transition to a lower carbon environment. Now, has this government delivered on any of those measures? No, they have not.

They've done nothing, and yet since they've been elected, they've brought in three pieces of legislation all designed to try and preserve their salary. They're giving ever more complicated –we know that the member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher) even said that , in his year spent with them, the only substantive issue that they discussed was their own salaries. It's a sad reflection of this government's performance to date, halfway through their own mandate. Knowing that we will delay this bill to the fall, will the Minister of Finance instead withdraw Bill 27? Mr.

Friesen: Well, Madam Speaker, because we have guests, let me clearly explain. That member clearly knows that this bill is a bill that withholds 20 per cent of every minister's salary and that salary is not reinstated unless government makes $100 million of progress against a deficit. When the NDP was in power they took and amended that legislation to allow NDP ministers to keep their salary. We're standing up for Manitobans. We're standing up for accountability.

We found a way to strengthen that bill and we will take it, and they should get on board and support these important measures that get better results for all Manitobans. Winnipeg Free Press Premier's Response to Media Story Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, an unprecedented attack on freedom of the press in our province by a sitting premier. This Premier (Mr. Pallister) has threatened to sue Manitoba's largest newspaper, and his actions are meant to cast a chill on the press.

The Premier wants to send a warning: if you dig too dee p or if you ask too many questions, threats and possibly lawsuits will follow. The actions of the Premier are at odds with Canadian democracy. They also prove the importance of the questions the Premier refuses to

1594 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 answer, questions he, himself, acknowledged were legitimate. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) today withdraw his threat of a lawsuit against the Winnipeg Free Press? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Deputy Premier): You know, it's no shock that the member opposite continues along with his smear tactics of our Premier and of Manitobans, and I would suggest, Madam Speaker, that, you know, Manitobans elected us to fix the finances, repair the services and rebuild our economy. That's what we are focused on.

While they are playing gutter politics, we will continue to focus on what's in the best interests of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary questions. Government Notices Act Request to Withdraw Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, I'm defending freedom of speech and I would think the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Stefanson) of Manitoba should do the same.

This–the Premier has threatened to sue the largest newspaper in Manitoba and his minister introduced legislation to end the long practice of advertising important government notices and information in newspapers across the province. The Premier's government are attempting to hide important information from Manitobans and force the silence of the media–the opposite of openness and transparency. Will the minister listen to Manitobans and withdraw Bill 8? Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I'd like to take this opportunity to indicate that members on this side of the House are celebrating a two-year anniversary: a historic win by this party on this side of the House. And I'd also like to say that Bill 8 is about modernization. It's about providing Manitobans the opportunity to have 24- 7 access to information regardless of where they live in Manitoba. Why is the member opposite opposed to information to Manitobans? Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Swa n: Well, the problem, Madam Speaker, is this minister plans to pass–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –but not proclaim Bill 8. With the stroke of a pen this government could enforce those provisions that will cut off information from regula r Manitobans. They'll do that without any further discussion or consultation or debate or notice. It's a threat that'll always hang there, just like this Premier's threat against the Winnipeg Free Press, and that's why our NDP caucus will be holding back Bill 8 into the fall, in the hope that it will give the government time to do the right thing.

I will give the minister, though, one final chance today. Will she do the right thing and commit today to withdrawing Bill 8? Mrs. Cox : I am always happy to listen to Manitobans. In fact, this–members on this side of the House engaged over 36,000 Manitobans when it came to Budget 2018, and Budget 2018 is reflective of their priorities. We'll continue to listen to Manitobans each and every day, Madam Speaker. Women's Health and Finances Government Record Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns ): So recapping the different ways the Premier directed attacks on Manitoba women in this two -year anniversary, I'll start with the Premier's callous decision not to raise the minimum wage despite knowi ng the vast majority of minimum wage earners are women. When he finally did decide to raise the minimum wage, Madam Speaker, he raised it by three nickels, and now by a measl y four nickels. So in three budgets this Premier has raised the minimum wage by 35 cents.

This, while attempts to piecemeal a daycare strategy to deal with the over 17,000 required spots, thwarting women's attempts to engage fully in the Manitoba economy. Why has the Premier chosen to attack Manitoba women? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank you for the opportunity to address that charge of callous behaviour on the part of a government.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1595 I'll tell you what callous looks like. Callous looks like saying you stand up for marginal income earners by –like the NDP did –while they kept an effective tax crate–rate, at the lowest level, that was twice Ontario's. They took money on the backs of low-income Manitobans. That's why we are raising the basic p ersonal amount by over two–$2,020 by the year 2020, leaving hundreds of dollars more in the pockets of every hard -working Manitoba family. We are standing up Manitoba families.

We're standing up for women, standing up for men, standing up for Manitoba families who are working hard. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: Women have watched the Premier (Mr. Pallister) rush through massive health- care changes, including the closure of three emergency rooms, five Q uickCare clinics and the Mature Women's Centre. The Premier asked women about to birth and labour to bring their own feminine pads, underwear and blankets, then the Premier saw fit to fire two lactation consultants so vital in helping women learn to breastfeed their newborns.

All of this coupled with the Premier's refusal to make – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –the abortion pill fully available to Manitoba women, particularly in the North and in the rural areas. Will the Premier stop his attack on women's health and on our reproductive health? Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): Well, while this member opposite feigns concern for women, our government is taking real meaningful action to improve the lives of women throughout the province.

We are letting women keep more of their hard- earned dollars so that they can care for their families. We are ensuring that women ar e provided respectful workplaces . While that government did nothing to provide a safe workplace for their own employees, never mind the rest of the em ployees throughout the province, our government is taking meaningful action to enhance women's equality in all spheres of this province. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: The b ottom line is that the Premier has made it clear that women are simply not his priority.

He's made it clear that when he's faced with a choice to save money or support Manitoba women, he will choose cuts every single time. * (14:30) Women will struggle without the front -line services of shelters and community organizations that they rely on , like the North Point Douglas Women's Centre , because of this Premier's funding cuts. We know this Premier certainly doesn't care about women with addictions, considering he couldn't even come outside yesterday to hear directly from women who are struggling with meth crisis. When will the Premier start actually standing up for Manitoba women and our rights? Ms.

Squires : Well, again, this member feigns concern for women, but when women were struggling in her own caucus, when women were struggling under the employ of her own caucus, what were they told? They were told to shut up and suck it up. This government is ensuring that we have no-wrong-door approach when we're dealing with creating a respectful workplace for people who work for the Manitoba government. We are playing a leadership role.

We're taking real meaningful action to eradicate gender -based violence throughout this entire province, and where they failed to stand up for women, where they failed to close the pay equity gap, where they failed to enhance women's equality in this province, we will succeed. Public Transit Funding Ministers' Salaries Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Two years ago, during the election, where was the promise from the Conservative Party in Manitoba to all Manitobans that a 20 per cent salary increase for our Premier and a 20 per cent salary increase for every Cabinet minister was going to be more important than sustaining funding to public transit? Will the minister responsible for transit cuts, the minister for municipal affairs, pleas e answer that question? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): It's just a true pleasure to stand up today on the second- year anniversary of forming government in Manitoba.

1596 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 Madam Speaker, we are very proud of our investments in transit. As a matter of fact, we're so proud of the investments we make, we're continuing on with bus rapid transit to ensure that those programs continue on for the betterment of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altemeyer: Where was the Conservative Party of Manitoba's promise to Manitobans that that minister's salary, the Premier's (Mr.

Pallister) salary, all of the Cabinet ministers' salaries were going to be so important that they had to be a priority, but a carbon tax was going to be introduced and assigned to the very same public transit services that he just stood up and claimed to be supporting? Will the minister please answer that question? Mr. Wharton : Again, I can reiterate, maybe I'll make it more clear for the member opposite. I mean, the bottom line is, Madam Speaker, we are communicating with our municipal partners, including the City of Winnipeg. We are focused on what's best for Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, unlike members opposite, we'll make sure we get it right. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Transit Authorities Municipal Loans Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): If the minister wants to get it right, he need only look to this morning when the local president for the amalgamated transit users and myself and a representative from Functional Transit gave this government a perfect opportunity to, for once, work with others productively and do the right thing.

Will his government provide a no- interest loan to all municipal transit authorities who want one so they can get electric buses, save money, reduce fares, reduce emissions and create local jobs here in Manitoba? That's a two -year promise I can get behind. Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'm glad the member opposite brought up this morning. I just wanted to share with the House what a lovely morning we had with my colleague, Minister Cox, when we shared information– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: I would just remind all members that when referring to members in the House that they be referred to by their ministerial portfolio name. Mr. Wharton: The member from River East and I, we were at an event this morning, Madam Speaker, introducing the new Heritage Trust, and we actually were looking–we had an excellent morning with The Winnipeg Foundation, and I can tell you that those organizations, museums and archives, are so thrilled to have the open dialogue and communication with our government. Again, Madam Speaker, where they got it wrong, we'll get it right.

Concordia and Seven Oaks Hospitals Hip and Knee Surgery Wait Times Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, quick access to good health care, including emergency rooms, operating rooms and ICUs is essential. ERs are being closed and already the median wait time in March is at more than two hours, up from 1.4 hours in October. But tha t plan is also to close operating rooms and intensive -care units. Concordia Hospital specializes in hip and knee replacements , which can have complications, and if the ICU at Concordia is closed patients will have to be moved post -op to another hospital.

Is the government planning to close the ICUs and operating rooms at Concordia and Seven Oaks , as well as their emergency rooms? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Well, the member is correct, quick access to care is important. That's why we're pleased to see, after phase 1, that when we compare the times–the wait times at the beginning of the transformation to now, recognizing it's still early, they are down 16 per cent, Madam Speaker. That represents hundreds of hours, thousands of hours that Manitobans are not waiting in an emergency room. Quick access is important.

If the member truly cared about quick access he would have supported the plan. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a supplementary question. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, as the minister and the government well know, this year the federal government is transferring record amounts of funds

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1597 to the Province of Manitoba, including for health, and yet waiting times at emergency rooms are t oo long and waiting times for hip and knee surgeries are getting longer, not shorter. Manitobans have a right to know what this government has planned. With closures of ICUs, ERs and possibly ORs, how are hip and knee surgery wait times going to be shortened? Mr. Goertzen: Well, Madam Speaker, the member continues his defence of Ottawa.

He continues to fail to represent Manitobans and continues to represent and defend the federal Liberal government, the very same federal Liberal government that ran in the last election on having all the premiers come together and have a national discussion and negotiation on the future of health care when it comes to funding from the federal government, where they've gone from a 50 per cent partner to a 19 per cent partner. They reduced the funding by $2.2 billion over what was expected. They didn't have that national discussion.

They refused to discuss it –the Prime Minister did –with the premiers, and that member today, still, two years after, continues to defend a cut to funding to health care in Manitoba. He should be ashamed of himself, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Rural Ambulance Services Patients' Distance from Stations Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, if the blame game were an Olympic sport, the minister would be working hard to try and get there. The government has a credibility gap.

Wait times across our system are too long. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: In rural areas, for example, ambulance stations are being closed. As I heard last week in Boissevain, if its ambulance station is closed, some Manitobans will be more than half an hour from an ambulance, especially in winter. Now, this government has made its– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: –formal commitment and promise that cannabis will be available to any Manitoban within a 30-minute drive.

I ask: Why is this government more committed to ensuring Manitobans have better access to cannabis than they have to health care? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, I've been accused of many things. This is the first time I'm being accused of being an Olympic athlete– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. An Honourable Member: It's never too late. Mr. Goertzen: It's never too late, but it might be a little bit late for me.

But Madam Speaker, you know, the me mber talks about the federal Liberal government deciding to legalize cannabis –the federal Liberal government that hasn't given proper time, proper consideration to the provincial governments. The unified position among provinces is there should be more tim e because we know of the harm that it can cause for young people, particularly those 25 and under. * (14:40) Our Premier (Mr. Pallister), our Minister of Justice (Mrs. Stefanson), took the lead nationally to ask for more time to ensure that we really could have a–the right plan to protect young people.

We all stood up in defence of that; that member sat a nd said nothing, Madam Speaker. Sexual Assault Survivors Third-Party Reporting Ms. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): Unlike the NDP government who ignored and let permeate a culture of accepting or hiding sexual harassment in the workplace, I'm proud our PC government is undertaking swift and strong measures to ensure a safe environment for government employees. Recently, a new protocol was announced in Manitoba for survivors of sexual abuse.

Can the Minister for the Status of Women please update the Assembly on what this important initiative means to survivors of sexual assault in Manitoba? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): I'd like to thank my friend from Seine River for that question.

1598 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 Earlier this week I had the honour of standing with our Justice Minister, law enforcement and many, many service providers to make this announcement about third- party reporting becoming a reality here in Manitoba. Manitoba will be the third province in the country to have third -party reporting.

It is a tool that will give survivors of sexual violence control back to them after they have been stripped of control after, arguably, the most horrific act that can happen to a person in their life, a nd so we're very proud that third- party reporting is a reality here in Manitoba, And I do want to thank everyone who works on the front lines of sexual violence. They real ly are angels on earth. Social Services Appeal Board Act Charter Issues Before Board Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I want to acknowledge representatives in the gallery today from Winnipeg Harvest, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg, Make Poverty History Manitoba and the University of Winnipeg Students' Association. Madam Speaker, last year, the Manitoba Court of Appeal found that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not some holy grail, that the Charter belongs to the people. Does the minister agree with that? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families ): We have made some changes to the social –or proposing, through legislation, some changes to the Social Services Appeal Board.

We think that is in line with other provinces, as well as changes that were made under the previous NDP government, as it relates to the Workers Compensation Board. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Smith: We agree with the Court of Appeal. Martin Stadler, a disabled Manitoba man, was denied EIA and told he must live on CPP payments instead. Martin took it to the Social Services Appeal Board and argued that this was a violation of his Charter rights. Bill 24 would prohibit Martin and other Manitobans from bringing Charter issues to the board.

Why is this minister refusing to give Manitobans access to the justice that they deserve? Mr. Fielding: That is not accurate. A fellow–anyone that has that appeal can take it to the higher courts level. That is something that the former NDP government did in terms of changing the criteria in terms of the Workers Compensation Board in 2005. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: The Court of Appeal ruled that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms plays an essential role in helping Manitobans get the social benefits that they need to live.

But this minister wants to deny Manitobans their constitutional right to the Charter. He has defied a court appeal decision that protects vulnerable Manitobans. The NDP will stand up for this Charter. We will hold this bill over and protect low -income Manitobans. Will this minister stand with us? Mr. Fielding : The courts also deemed that the provincial Legislature has an ability to limit that Charter regulation upon the Social Services Appeal Board. There is the fact that people need timely access.

That is something that's important, that social appeal board plays, and that's something that we very much support. It is very similar to what other provinces are doing. In fact, it's very similar, the change in legislation, to what the NDP did with the Work ers Compensation Board in 2005. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Churchill Manitoba Government Plan Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, a junket, that's what two ministers went on –or what ministers went on two years ago when they went to Churchill with nine people to re-announce a program that had very little to do with Churchill.

But they did get some nice pictures of beluga whales, I'm told. When will there be real action for the people of Churchill and for the North from this government? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the question, and Churchill remains important to all of Manitoba, and we know that. There is federal responsibility in terms of the rail line

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1599 and the port, which the federal government needs to take action on. We have been supporting –the first thing we did when the rail line went under was make sure that there was fuel supplies to Churchill to get through this winter, which they did, and without that support Churchill would have been in very dire condition, and we made sure that they were safe through the winter. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: The port is closed to grain shipments. The rail line is out of service.

But the governing party is so deaf to these concerns that they're now having a political fundraiser for the PC Party of Manitoba with a prize of two tickets to Churchill. Of course, you'll have to fly there because there i s no rail line going there. Madam Speaker, the people of Churchill need their port reopened. They need the rail line restored. They need leadership from this government. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: The governing party shouldn't be trying to profit from people's earnest desire to support Churchill.

When will there be real action from this government to support the Port of Churchi ll and the people of Churchill? Mr. Pedersen : Two years ago today, Manitobans made an historic change in t he government in Manitoba and put back in a government that really relates to the people of Manitoba, including–and that would include the people of Churchill. Churchill is a top tourism destination from around the world, and we're very proud of Churchil l and what it has to offer to the tourism industry and we will continue to support Churchill each and every day.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: Well, I'll go a little off script here, Madam Speaker. If the minister truly believes what he just said, then I would fully expect the PC Party of Manitoba to turn all profits from their little sale over to the people of Churchill to support Churchill. Madam Speaker, this government is so deaf to the people of northern Manitoba that there's no action on the Port of Churchill. Will they now actually stand up and do something to support the port and to support the people of Churchill? Mr.

Pedersen : Madam Speaker, we support Churchill each and every day. Food Security in the North Government Initiatives Mr. Kelly Bindle (Thompson): Madam Speaker, our government has always recognized that access to healthy food is a critical component of an individual's health and well -being, especially in northern Manitoba. The former NDP government achieved very little in the way of tangible, meaningful, concrete progress on food security in the North. Can the Minister for Indigenous and Northern Relations update this House on how government is delivering the new Northern Healthy Foods Initiative? * (14:50) Hon.

Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations ): Very proud of our government that's committed to addressing the issues of food security in the –northern Manitoba through programming such as the Northern Healthy Foods Initiative, the Affordable Food in Remote Manitoba retail subsidy program and supporting school nourishment programs. As of April 1st a performance measurement framework is in place, as well as a development plan that aligns with the Look North strategy and the truth and reconciliation calls to action.

The expanse and tragedy –the expansion strategy will reach out to MKO and SCO as new program partners, allowing 21 new communities to receive improved health outcomes and support the community in food -led security approaches that reflect cultural values. Madam Speaker, unlike the former N DP government, our– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The time for oral questions has expired.

1600 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): It's a matter of privilege, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Maples, on a matter of privilege. Mr. Saran: Yes, Madam Speaker, I listened that the member for Minto (Mr. Swan) is worried about freedom of the press. I agree with him. But why my freedom of asking questions is being taken a way in the question period? Other independents, Liberals, are allowed to ask a question every day. That means each member has a chance to ask a question every third day.

On the other hand, I am allowed to ask the 11th question every second Wednesday, which is not possible. Why is there systemic discrimination? Why all members are not treated equally? Why there 's a double standard and this –in this House? Why the reduction of mental stress does not start in this House?

Madam Speaker: Before recognizing a ny other members to speak, I would remind the House that remarks at this time by honourable members are limited to strictly relevant comments about whether the alleged matter of privilege has been raised at the earliest opportunity and whether a prima faci e case has been established. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I rise just to express my support for the sentiment from the member from The Maples.

It meets the test of prima facie, as he has raised this immediately after question period, and the matter at hand is a demonstration of the challenge that this member and other independents have in asking questions and participating in question period. Madam Speaker, one only needs to look at the record to see that there is a wide disparity between the number of questions between each independent member. This is also due to another issue, which I've already raised. And I won't ask you to talk about it again, but it is that the continuous time that all the heckling– Madam Speaker: Order, please.

The member's gone off track from the matter of privilege that is raised on the floor, and I am going to intervene at this point because this issue has been brought up several times by both members. Every time, it has been ruled as not a matter of privilege. Members cannot keep bringing up something that the Speaker has ruled on because that is very disrespectful to the Speaker of any legislature. It has been ruled on.

And I would point out t hat, on the matter of privilege raised by the honourable member for T he Maples, I would like to inform the House that a matter concerning the methods by which the House proceeds in the conduct of business is a matter of order, not privilege. Joseph Maingot , in the second edition of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, states on page 14 that allegations of breach of privilege by a member in the House that amount to complaints about procedures and practices in the House are, by their very nature, matters of ord er.

He also states on page 223 of the same edition, a breach of the standing orders or a failure to follow an established practice would invoke a point of order rather than a question of privilege. On this basis, I would therefore rule that the honourable member does not have a prima facie case of privilege. And I would also indicate to both members, as I have many times, that if they have concerns about the rotation of their questions or their speaking order, they are to discuss that with the House leaders. That is not a matter that is discusse d on the floor of this Chamber and that has been raised many times.

I don't think I should have to stand here this many times to keep repeating what has already been dealt with in this House. PETITIONS Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Point of order. Point of Order Madam Speaker: On a point of order. Mr. Fletcher: The solution which you propose has not taken place, will not take place, because they will not participate. And where else can we raise an issue if not in this Chamber? Thank you. Madam Speaker: I would point out that the member does not have a point of order. He has not outlined a breach of a rule or a practice of this House.

And I have reiterated many times the standard procedure for dealing with that is not in the Chamber. It is with the House leaders, and if the member would be co- operative with t he House leaders then maybe we could see some progress moving ahead on changes in rota tion, but at this

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1601 point in time the rotation has been set. And if the member wants to raise it as an issue with the House leaders, he's welcome to do that. But that is not to be raised here in the Chamber, on the floor. That is a long-standing tradition in this House and across Canada that those types of issues are dealt with outside of the Chamber, speaking to House leaders or addressing a rules committee. So I would point out the member does not have a point of order. Petitions. University of Winnipeg–Campus Safety Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have e merged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or community at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's secur ity/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase tow ards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university.

(2) That the provincial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. This petition is signed by Alexander Richert, Keith Bennett, Edward Seo and many other Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Medical Laboratory Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provision of laboratory services to medical clinics and physicians' offices has been historically, and continues to be, a private sector service.

(2) It is vitally important that there be competition in laboratory services to allow medical clinics to seek solutions from more than one provider to control costs and to improve service for health professionals and patients.

(3) Under the present provincial government, Dynacare, an Ontario -based subsidi ary of a US company, has acquired Unicity labs, resulting in a monopoly situation for the provision of laboratory services in medical clinics and physicians' offices.

(4) The creation of this monopoly has resulted in the closure of many laboratories by D ynacare in and around the city of Winnipeg. Since the acquisition of Unicity labs, Dynacare has engaged in anti-competitive activities, where it has changed the collection schedules of patients' specimens and charged some medical offices for collection services.

(5) These closures have created a situation where a great number of patients are less well served, having to travel significant distances in some cases, waiting considerable periods of time and sometimes being denied or having to leave without obtaining lab services. The situation is particularly critical for patients requiring fasting blood draws, as they may experience complications that could be life-threatening based on their individual health situations. * (15:00)

(6) Furthermore, Dynacare has instructed that all STAT's patients, patients with suspicious internal

1602 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 infections, be directed to its King Edward location. This creates unnecessary obstacles for the patients who are required to travel to that lab rather than simply completing the test in their doctor's office. This new directive by Dynacare presents a direct risk to patients' health in the interests of higher profits. This has resulted further in patients opting to visit emergency rooms rather than travelling twice, which increases cost to the health-care system.

Medical clinics and physicians' offices service thousands of patients in their communities and have structured their offices to provide a one -stop service, acting as a health -care front line that tak es off some of the load from emergency rooms. The creation of this monopoly has been problematic to many medical clinics and physicians, hampering their ability to provide high- quality and complete lab–complete service to their patients due to closure of so many laboratories. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to request Dynacare to reopen the closed laboratories or allow Diagnostic Services of Manitoba to freely open labs in clinics which formerly housed labs that have been shut down by Dynacare.

(2) To urge the provincial government to ensure high-quality lab services for patients and a level playing field and competition in the provision of laboratory services to medical offices.

(3) To urge the provincial government to address this matter immediately in the interests of better patient-focused care and improved support for health professionals. Signed, John Smith, Mike Karozowski, [phonetic] Karen McNall [phonetic] and many others. University of Winnipeg–Campus Safety Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And the reasons for this petition are as follows:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or community at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough; number four–sorry–

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it i s still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the Un iversity of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university; and (2) that the provincial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. And this petition is signed by many Manitobans. Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17th, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1603

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG , as she quickly became part of our –as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and t he Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by many Manitobans. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): On House business, I would like to announce that the Standing Committee on Private Bills will meet on Tuesday, April 24th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 212, The Invasive Species Awareness Week Act; Bill 213, The Allied Healthcare Professionals Recognition Week Act; Bill 219, The Workplace Safety and Health Amendment Act (Inappropriate or Unsafe Footwear); Bill 221, The Rail Safety Awareness Week Act; and Bill 300, The University of Manitoba Students' Union Amendment Act.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that the Standing Committee on Private Bills will meet on Tuesday, April 24th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 212, The Invasive Species Awareness Week Act; Bill 213, The Allied Healthcare Professionals Recognition Week Act; Bill 219, The Workplace Safety and Health Amendment Act (Inappropriate or Unsafe Footwear); Bill 221, The Rail Safety Awareness Week Act; and Bill 300, The University of Manitoba Students' Union Amendment Act. Ms.

Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, on House business, and in accordance with the rule 2(9), I would like to table a list of the five bills designated by the official opposition for completion in the fall sittings of this Third Session of the 41st Legislature.

The designated bills for this session are: Bill 8, The Government Notices Modernization Act (Various Acts Amended); Bill 2 –or sorry –Bill 12, The Red Tape Reduction and Government Efficiency Act, 2018; Bill 16, The Climate and Green Plan Implementation Act; Bill 24, The Social Services Appeal Board Amendment Act; and Bill 27, The Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act. Miigwech, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, who has tabled a list of five bills designated by the official opposition for completion in the fall sittings of this Third Session of the 41st Legislature.

The designated bills for this session are: Bill 8, The Government Notices Modernization Act (Various Acts Amended); Bill 12, The Red Tape Reduc tion and Government Efficiency Act, 2018; Bill 16, The Climate and Green Plan Implementation Act; Bill 24, The Social Services Appeal Board Amendment Act; and Bill 27, The Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act. Mr.

Cullen : On House b usiness, I'm announcing that, in accordance with the provisions of rule 2, the following bills will be considered by the government as specified bills for this Third Session of the 30– 41st Legislature: bills 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25 and 26. Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader in accordance with rule 2, the following bills will be considered by the government as specified bills for this Third Session of the 41st Legislature: bill s 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25 and 26. * * * * (15:10)

1604 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): On a matter of– Madam Speaker: On a point. Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, on a point of privilege. Madam Speaker: A matter of privilege? Mr. Fletcher: A matter of privilege, yes. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a matter of privilege. Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, the issue in Bill 4 is before the courts. It would be –seem inappropriat e for this Chamber to interfere in the proceedings of the court, as would it –that that's exactly what is happening with Bill 4.

The court date is on– was December 18th, and I can table right now the documents, and I will table right now the documents of the court proceedings. So it's clearly in front of the courts, and it says clearly that the judge is going to make a decision in– you know, almost immediately. So it is inappropriate for this House to raise that. Thank you. Here are the matters. And thi s is a prima facie case because this is–when I've heard that this is a designated bill. So I met the criteria of timing and also the fact that the Legislature cannot interfere with the courts in this manner. Here are the tabled documents.

Madam Speaker: Before recognizing any other members to speak, I would remind the House that remarks at this time by honourable members are limited to strictly relevant comments about whether the alleged matter of privilege has been raised at the earliest opportunity and w hether a prima facie case has been established. Seeing as there are no speakers, I would indicate to the member that that is not a matter of privilege. The Speaker does not determine questions of law or questions of constitutionality. So I would indicate to the member that he does not have a matter of privilege. Mr.

Fletcher: Thank you, Madam Speaker. And you are absolutely correct, but that wasn't the matter of privilege. The matter of privilege that I'd like you to rule on is the Legislature interfering in the business of the courts while there's a pending court hearing. It's not uncommon for ministers not to comment when matters are before the court as this matter is before the court. And it would be inconsistent with the traditions of this place to discuss it, let alone vote on a matter that's clearly before the courts. And the judge in the hearing indicated that he would have a decision in March.

And now, to have this place circumvent the courts is improper. I'd also like to point out, Madam Speaker, that this issue had come up during the parliamentary break, so this is the first time it's been suggested that this bill would be in any way debated or certainly voted on, and it'd be inappropriate for the judge to see the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Stefanson), for example, or the Premier (Mr. Pallister) comment on a case. What is the judge supposed to do? Madam Speaker: I would indicate to the member that he should not be challenging the Speaker, and that is exactly what he is doing. He also has it wrong.

The courts should not be interfering with the Legislature and not vice versa. So the minister –or the member is actually wrong in his assertion. What he is referring to is the concept of sub judice, which is a voluntary restraint that the House could use i f it feels appropriate. And the member has also not raised this at the earliest opportunity. So I would urge the member, I don't think he wants to be challenging the ruling of the Speaker and, also, the courts should not be interfering with legislative business. So the member does not have his facts correct.

Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order. Mr. Fletcher: We try and raise the level of decorum in this place. What–that would include being positive rather than negative. The issue that you say I'm wrong in, is exactly– Madam Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order. The member is not to be challenging t he ruling of the Speaker and he is just doing that, and I'm going to ask him to cease and desist with that immediately because I don't think he wants to go down that road. Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1605 Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, can you tell us in regard to what the constitution has to say about freedom of the press and the government's involvement with reducing funding to the press? Madam Speaker: Order, please. The member should know the rules, and the rules do not allow him to ask questions of the Speaker. He is also challenging the ruling of the Speaker, and I have just indicated, a few times now, that he is way out order. So I would ask the member to cease and desist with where he is going at this point in time.

He does not have a point of order. * * * Madam Speaker: Today is the 14th sitting day after first reading completion day. All government bills that had first reading moved within 20 sitting days of the Throne Speech and have been designated by the government as specified but not designated by the opposition as designated bills, are eligible to have second reading moved today. For each such bill, the minister, critic and independent members can each speak for a maximum of 10 minutes per bill, followed by and up to 15- minute question period for each bill.

The House is to not adjourn until these actions have been completed. The list of bills that will follow this process include the following. Bills 5, 6, 14, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25 and 26. SECOND READINGS Bill 5–The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act Madam Speaker: So I will now call the first bill, and that is Bill 5, second reading, The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act. Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the M inister for Growth, Enterprise and Trad e, that Bill 5, The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I table the message. Madam Speaker: It is been moved, seconded by the honourable M inister of Finance , seconded by the honourable Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade (Mr.

Pedersen), that Bill 5, The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and the message is tabled. Mr. Friesen: I am pleased this afternoon to present amendments to The Public Interest Disclosur e (Whistleblower Protection) Act, known as PIDA. PIDA facilitates the disclosure and investigation of significant and serious wrong- doing in or relating to most public bodies. It protects persons who make disclosures from reprisals.

Manitoba, it's interesting to know, was the first province to introduce stand- alone whistle -blower protection legislation. It continues to be cited as a model for other jurisdictions. The amendments under consideration in today's debate are based on recommendations of t he Auditor General, the Ombudsman and an independent review. Bill 5 also contributes to our commitment to an open government. I am pleased to advise that Bill 5 will extend the protections under PIDA to include school divisions and school districts and their employees.

This aligns with whistle -blower protection in jurisdictions like Alberta, Nova –New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador. * (15:20) The government, by regulation, under these measures can identify municipalities, including cities like the city of Winnipeg, and local government districts to be covered by the act. Manitoba will be the first jurisdiction to expand the scope of whistle-blower legislation to include municipalities and local government districts.

Under the current legislation as it now stands, the only avenue for whistle-blowers to address active reprisal is by filing a written complaint with the Manitoba Labour Board. Bill 5 would authorize the Ombudsman to receive and investigate reprisal complaints and to make recommendations to address acts or threats of reprisal. The amendments require that any complaints regarding reprisal be filed with the Ombudsman. This is a positive change for whistle-blowers.

It would expedite the process by which reprisal complai nts are being addressed, and that change would make our act consistent with Saskatchewan and Alberta.

1606 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 It is important to note the Labour Board in these proposals still has a role, and any employee or former employee could still file a further complaint about the alleged reprisal with the Labour Board if he or she is not satisfied with the outcome of that process undertaken by the Ombudsman. The Labour Board must further treat complaints as new and not a review of the investigation, decision or recommendations of the Ombudsman or Auditor General. And the Labour Board has the power to issue an order under The Labour Relations Act.

There are further protections in this bill by prohibiting the disclosure of the whistle -blower's identity in a civil court proceeding or a proceeding of an administrative tribunal. And the bill also specifies that an investigator must take steps to protect the identity and procedural rights of all people involved in an investigation, including the whistle -blower, a witness and even the person alleged to have committed the wrongdoing. Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair It amends –it introduces amendments which clarify and strengthen the roles and investigatory powers of designated officers and the Ombudsman. Amendments empower a designated officer to compel an employee to produce documents and to be interviewed for the purpose of an investigation. Amendments simplify that a designated officer may consult with the Ombudsman, the CEO of a public body or any other per sons necessary for the investigation. And Bill 5 specifies the circumstances in which a designated officer or the Ombudsman may decide not to investigate a disclosure.

It allows the designated officer or Ombudsman to determine the manner in which the whist le-blower is to be informed of the results of the investigation. And, finally, it contains an amendment that will authorize the Ombudsman to request, review and provide recommendations regarding the disclosure procedures of a public body. Bill 5 requ ires information about PIDA to also be communicated to all employees on an annual basis, and the minister responsible for the act will be required to review the legislation every five years. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Bill 5 effectively fosters a more open and accountable government.

It strengthens Manitoba's whistle -blower legislation, and I look forward to the support of all members in respect of these amendments. Thank you. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I'm pleased to rise and speak this afternoon on Bill 5, The Public Interest Disclosure Amendment Act,

an act that has been introduced, I understand, to ensure that the identity of whistle -blowers is protected and is not disclosed in civil court or in administrative tribunal proceedings. And I do appreciate the minister putting on the record that it was, in fact, our government back in 2007 that was a leader in the nation in bringing forward a stand-alone whistle-blower legislation here that did put us far out front of other provinces in making sure that whi stle-blowers were protected here in this province.

We also know that this particular bill, Bill 5, brings in protections under the act to extend to school divisions and districts, and disclosures are handled by their designated official or the Ombudsman. And those roles are expanded and clarified. While it's certainly true, Mr. Speaker, that our NDP team fully understands and –understands those changes that need to be made to protect whistle-blowers and victims of improper workplace behaviour, too often whistle -blowers fear that doing the right thing will lead to a hostile workplace or worse career opportunities.

We need to have legislation that supports and protects those victims, and especially–this is especially true, Mr. Speaker, in the wake of the #MeToo movement, that we have seen how government must conduct itself in a transparent and accountable fashion. For it–to create healthier and more accountable work environment, employees need to be able to raise legitimate concerns without fear of r eproach or negative repercussions. Improper workplace conduct is unacceptable, and we recognize that every employee needs a safe, designated person to talk to without fearing the repercussions.

Our team is committed to doing our part to make sure that ev ery work environment is a place that is accountable, is inclusive, and is accepting. Our caucus is also in fully –in full support of anything that increases the opportunities for employees to be protected in their work environments, and we support the expansion of these protections in The Public Interest Disclosure Amendment Act to school divisions and to districts. We need all employees, whether they be in our education sector or elsewhere, to be able to raise those legitimate concerns without fear of repercussions against them.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1607 We are however, disappointed, I would say, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) chose not to be more proactive when it comes to municipal government workers or those who work in local government districts. The Premier did have the opportunity here to expand this act to cover municipalities, including the City of Winnipeg, which has been very vocal in asking for these protections and asking for the provincial government to step up and be more proactive and also extending that to local government districts.

But, unfortunately, he ignored that opportunity. We believe that the government should use its power to include municipalities, and local governments and districts under this amendment so that all municipal employees feel protected and able to report anything without fear of reprisal. Protections for whistle -blowers are needed to create safe, fair, responsible, and accountable work environments, and we want to see Manitoba as a province who–where employees no longer have to be afraid of being in a hostile workplace after they raise a legitimate concern with a designated officer. And just in closing, Mr.

Speaker, I will say that this attitude of accountability and openness does start at the top. And when it comes to accountability in this province, when Manitobans look to the top, they see a Premier who has a lot of trouble being transparent, has a lot of trouble being accountable and really just answering those most basic questions that Manitobans have and have the right to know about. It seems that this Premier is constantly ducking and weaving and hiding and refuses to be accountable in his own conduct.

We think that that sort of attitude at the top doesn't send the right message through the rest of the civil service and beyond. So we ask that this government does embrace true accountability and moves forward in a way that creates safe and respectful workplaces and allows those whistle -blowers to be truly protected. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): On this bill we certainly welcome the additional protecti ons that are extended to school boards and school districts and their employees. This is a step forward.

We continue to have some concerns overall whether the process is as good as it could be. But at the same time, we're quite concerned about the situation with municipalities. It really doesn't make sense that this is done on a one -by-one basis for municipalities, and it really should cover all municipalities. We've seen during this last year, a number of concerns be brought forward about harassment at the municipal level.

And, although the complaints –which have been brought forward, were elected officials and may not be covered under this, this certainly would be very important to extend to all municipal officials and to all employees of municipalities. * (15:30) I think that this is a mistake for the government to, you know, only do part of the job here that needs to be done, and I would hope that we have representatives coming from municipalities to talk about the need to make sure that this legislati on really encompasses all municipalities.

There–of course, because it doesn't encompass all municipalities, you may have the paradoxical situation that some employees who might be directly affected by this and might want to bring issue forward are going t o be reluctant to come to the committee because they are afraid that they won't have the protection that they actually should have and they should need. So, Mr. Speaker, I think that this lack of attention to municipalities is of considerable concern, and hopefully the government will bring in an amendment at committee stage to make sure that municipalities are fully covered. Thank you. Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I am pleased that the issue of whistle -blower protection is here, and when the opportunity arises for the minister to answer questions, I wonder if he could answer the questions or tell us how the following scenarios would be anticipated to carry out under this legislation. Schools and school boards is probably a good catch on the legi slation. We know that schools at all levels are notorious for bullying–bullying amongst the kids, certainly, but bullying amongst the staff is also known to happen, bullying of –from staff to students or students to staff.

Now, if it's a student to a st aff member or a member of the staff

1608 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 or faculty complaining about a student or an observation from another staff member about the actions of a colleague, how would that play out? Also, intimidation and threats and other types of bullying occur in other w ork environments and throughout government, I am sure. And even in this place, the issue of intimidation and bullying has been raised by other MLAs.

And one could argue even in recent readings of Hansard in the last very short while that one of the MLAs in this place provided a threatening tone and demeanour and–about future consequences if an individual asked certain questions that were uncomfortable. So my question, then, also extends to the minister. How would this legislation apply in the workplace, just not at schools, but throughout government, Crown corporations and even in the Legislative Building and the context?

In fact, what would happen if a whistle -blower raised an issue in the Department of Finance or Infrastructure, for example, and then–and , say, a minister was implicated –not saying that's at all the case, but we're going through a thought exercise here–how would that member –how would that whistle-blower be dealt with if it turned out to be a political issue? Would we see a vote in the Chamber occur to absolve the people responsible for doing things that are inappropriate?

Would we see a minister ask questions that would put the whistle-blower in a difficult situation, either professionally or personally with–and it can be done–and the minister's very skilled, I know, he would–and I'm not saying he would do this, but, you know, it's a –it is possible to expose the person without actually naming the person. So how does the whistle-blower legislation apply in those kinds of situations? Just in the administration of government, in Crowns, at school boards, in schools, but also in this place, and this is not a theoretical issue.

Just the other day, in Estimates, questions were asked about the sole -source contracting dealing with the St. Martin outlet and, when asked, the minister simply said it's a process done by the department, okay, and therefore he wasn't able to answer the questions. So the minister points to the department, and let's say hypothetically that there's someone in the depart ment that is advising people that the government's own process is not being followed.

How is that person supposed to defend themselves when the minister won't take responsibility for the political decision and then points the finger to the department, and when asked to–when the MLAs ask at committee to talk to members of the department, they're said –they're told, no, they can't talk or ask questions to members of the department. Questions can only go to the minister. Okay. So the minister has put the depa rtment officials in a very difficult position.

There are probably officials–and you could put any –that know that things were not done appropriately, but then the last level of accountability, political accountability, the minister doesn't take responsibility and it goes into a black hole of red tape –I guess blue tape and orange tape, but no answers. So House does that work, really? How does the–in that scenario, say a sole-source contract, which is clearly against conservatism and Toryism and free trade, the internal trade agreement, the New West Partnership, principles of transparency and accountability. Now, we know that's happened once.

Let's say it happens again or a civil servant steps up and says yes–but we already know what the minster has said. Is that whistle -blower going to pay a heavy price for just explaining what happened? Because that is the other explanation, Mr. Chair, and that is the minister is at Estimates or at question period or there about, refuses to answer the question, points to the department to provide the answers, the department doesn't have any answers because it was a political decision and then the member–well, it's a– and Tiger Dams fits in this scenario as well.

You know, it's just not any one government. * (15:40) But what happens to that individual or group when they step up and say yes, that wasn't according to procedure, we told our bosses, our ministerial – our ministers who make the political decision but don't take the responsibility for that decision. So you see, there's a Catch -22, and I don't know that this legislation catches the Catch-22. And it is particularly timely –or, this discussion, because sole-sourced contracting is occurring. We're told that only the department knows what has happened there.

The minister w ill not explain or take responsibility, or even admit that there was a mistake. And sometimes mistakes are made, that's fine. Like, of course, there's mistakes. And that's a part of accountability and transparency. But, when it's hide, hide, hide, whis tle-blowers are in trouble.

April 19, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1609 Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Questions Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any members of the following sequence. The first question from the Official Opposition critic or designate, subsequent questions may –asked from each independent member, remaining questions asked by any opposition members, and no questions or answers shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Did the minister meet with the mayor or other officials at the City of Winnipeg to discuss this legislation? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): This legislation is brought with the full agreement and support and recommendations of the Auditor General, the Ombudsman. It acts on an independent review conducted by Dianna Scarth and it goes directly to an Ombudsman's report. Where under the NDP, it was seen that –in an Ombudsman's report –that three out of four individuals would not come forward in the civil service if they saw wrongdoing because they feared reprisal.

We've acted on the strong evidence of this, and we've stayed constantly in contact with other levels of government. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, I'm going to ask the minister why it is that municipalities aren't fully included here and would only be put under regulation. Isn't that putting municipalities in a second-class status compared with school boards and school districts? Mr. Friesen : The member for River Heights has not done his homework. He should know that this is the most extensive legislation of its type in all of Canada.

He should also know that there are protections that are similar in other jurisdictions, and there is no other jurisdiction in Canada that has extended any kind of provision to municipalities. So he should know that this is the most extensive provision of its kind to extend these provisions to other levels of governme nt in the form of a municipal government. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wonder if the minister could provide some answers to the scenarios that I mentioned earlier.

If it needs to be, I can repeat the questions and scenarios in the next round of questions but I think the minister was listening. And what would you do in a hypothetical sole-source contracting situation where the department knows the decision was wrong and the minister won't take responsibility. How does the whistle-blower legislation affect this? Mr. Friesen: I would start instead with an answer to the member's question when he talked about what happens in a school when stude nts are involved. He should know clearly that by

definitions and the terms provided in the bill, these provisions extend to employees. So schools and school divisions will have their own policies in terms of what to do in the case of wrongdoing when it would come to students. These provisions are for employees of these institutions, employees of these entities. So this bill applies to regional health authorities, Crown and family service authorities, Crown corporations, universities, personal care homes , any government body designated by regulation, as well as central government. I invite the member to ask further questions. Mr.

Wiebe: I take it from the minister's answer to my first question that he did not meet directly with the mayor on this particular bill. I'm wondering, though, if he says he's been in touch with other municipal officials throughout the province, what kind of repercussions can those municipal employees who speak out against illegal activities, what kind of penalties or other repercussions can they face. Mr. Friesen : Well, to the member's question, as I stated for the member for River Heights , this would be the broadest application of a mechanism that would extend to municipalities.

We've been clear that we feel, as autonomous and mature governments, municipalities should have that right to opt into such provisions, and as I said to the member for River Heights, no jurisdiction in Canada that has similar whistle -blower protections extends these provisions to municipal government. So, when the member asks what kind of penalties would be in place –none, until a municipal government would choose to want to opt into the act, and then, in accordance with that, this bill provides

1610 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 19, 2018 the mechanism by which a municipal government could be scoped in. Mr. Gerrard: It seems to me that if the government is trying to be comprehensive that surely to goodness the minister w ould want to be fully inclusive of municipalities and not just allow this opt -in, opt-out scenario. One would predict that municipalities, where there are potential problems, would be the very ones who would opt out, and that would, you know, get around the inclusion of these municipalities who are the most in need of being included, are the very ones who may be opting out.

What does the minister say to that? Mr. Friesen : The member is missing an important part of these amendments, which is the extensi on to 35 school divisions and two school districts and all of those employees. At the end of these amendments, if adopted, this act would apply to over 600 public bodies. This is extensive legislation. This has the full support of the Ombudsman, has the full support of the Auditor General. It has the full recommendation of the Scarth report.

And the government, as we've said, by regulation, can identify municipalities, including the City of Winnipeg and others, and local government districts, to fall under the act, but this gives control to those municipalities to–the choice to opt into the framework. We would be the first in Canada to expand the scope of whistle -blower legislation to include municipalities and local government districts. Mr. Fletcher: Well, why don't we take the real case that we just experienced last week with Estimates. You know, there's a question about sole -source contracting.

The minister says it's up to the department, but the department is not allowed to comment. But what if the de partment did comment, either the deputy minister or one of the engineers commented? Would they face reprisals from the minister, and how would this legislation affect that individual one way or the other? Mr. Friesen : So, first, the overarching response i s that this government favours an ethical environment and that's why we are taking these steps to improve accountability, to improve transparency.

We're correcting the mistakes of the past and we're going boldly into places where other jurisdictions have not yet gone when it comes to these provisions. Let that member understand that these protections are there for individuals who are employees who see wrongdoing and want to report that and should report that, and we should provide the framework in which those employees can do this. Let's understand that that wrongdoing means any

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-37b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 37b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a0fb1fdde574d1988b0560d5efaa6712cc344ee1

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