Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — 13 March 2012 (47th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLVII No. 7)

2012-03-13

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — 13 March 2012 (47th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLVII No. 7)

2012-03-13

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

March

13, 2012 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVII No. 7

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

The Chair would like to recognize a guest in the gallery today, a former MHA

in this Assembly, Mr. John Crane, the former Member for the District of

Carbonear Harbour Grace.

Welcome, Sir.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today on a point of order with regard to the notice of private

members' motions. Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 63(3) it states, "On the

Monday before the Wednesday of the week in which a Private Member's motion is to

be debated, the Government House Leader or the Opposition House Leader, as the

case may be, shall announce to the House the Private Member's motion to be

debated on that Wednesday."

I have checked Hansard for Monday and although the Member for St. John's West

indicated that he was moving a motion for debate, on Wednesday, the Government

House Leader did not give notice as he should have on Monday to confirm that

indeed the motion by the Member for St. John's West would be the one debated on

Wednesday.

Mr. Speaker, although this is a minor point, it is clear that the Government

House Leader somehow omitted to follow that proper process of giving

notification. In the past, Mr. Speaker, such a lapse has resulted in the

government losing an opportunity to debate their motion on Private Member's Day.

However, Mr. Speaker, in the spirit of our co-operative approach, and our

interest in seeing this House operate properly, the members in our Party are

willing to overlook this omission and ask that the Government House Leader, if

he wishes to rise and ask for leave to proceed with the debate on this motion

presented by the Member for St. John's West, and in doing so we will grant him

that leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am looking at Standing Order 63(3), and what you have to look at is on the

Monday before the Wednesday the Government House Leader, as the case may be,

shall announce to the House. Mr. Speaker, I stood up, I indicated that there

would be a Private Member's motion; the Member for St. John's West just read the

motion into the record. That is notice, Mr. Speaker.

What you have to look at when you are dealing with anything here, it is not

strictly procedure or process. What you have to look at is the substance. It is

not a matter of form over substance, Mr. Speaker. You look at the spirit and the

intent of the regulation in the Standing Order of the act and you determine was

it complied with. Did the government follow the procedure?

Mr. Speaker, I really do not know what the Opposition House Leader is trying

to establish there today. If she wants to debate rules and procedures with me,

we have two or three months to do it and I will be more than eager to debate

with her. If you are going to try to pick up on every point like that, then we

will be here all day. I gave them a free day yesterday on points of order and on

procedure, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps, we have to come back today now to strict

compliance.

So, Mr. Speaker, you look at the Standing Order, on the Monday before, the

Government House Leader, as the case may be, shall announce to the House. Well,

Mr. Speaker, I stood up, I said we are going to call the private member's

motion; it was then read by the Member for St. John's West. That is the spirit

and intent of the Standing Order, Mr. Speaker. What we cannot do in a House like

this, or in any Parliament, is try to adhere to strict and rigid compliance with

all rules and procedures. There has to be flexibility, Mr. Speaker. There has to

be a way to get business done, and that is what we are doing here. So, Mr.

Speaker, I think the whole thing is just foolish and stupid, and if that is the

way they want to play, we will play.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, to the point of order.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Government House Leader might think the parliamentary procedures of our

House and the Standing Orders of this House are foolish, but I certainly do not

think so, Mr. Speaker. The reason I rise today to point this out I could have

waited until Wednesday, and we could have had a debate in this House on

Wednesday as to whether the government's motion was eligible to even be called

for a debate, as has happened in previous times in this House of Assembly, I

would like to remind the Government House Leader. In times where it has been

ruled that because proper notice was not given, the motion was not effectively

eligible to be called for debate. I raise it today, Mr. Speaker, in advance of

the motion being presented tomorrow, and I ask that proper leave be given for

that motion in terms of the debate that is about to occur on Private Members'Day on Wednesday.

MR. SPEAKER: Any further comment with respect to the point of order?

Points of order on a procedural issue, technically, need to be raised at the

time of the breach. So, in terms of its pure technical

interpretation, the

appropriate time to raise a technical point of order would have been on the day

it had happened, which would have been on Monday, in terms of procedurally. It

appears, though, that there is a motion on the floor, and I think the Opposition

House Leader has indicated that it is not the party's intent to disrupt the

activity of tomorrow and have the government member introduce the private motion

as already read into the record on that day. So, there being no point of order,

we will proceed with today's session.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise on another point of order as well.

It has recently come to my attention that the hon. Member for Humber West has

disregarded one of the recommendations of the Green report and the standard of

practice for MHAs, which had been established by the previous Premier.

Recommendation 76 of the Green report states, "

(1) Members of the House of

Assembly should be prohibited from making donations and other gratuitous

payments to or on behalf of individuals, charities, community groups or agencies

using their constituency allowance or other public money".

I have a copy of a photograph which appeared in the March 3, 2012 edition of

The Western Star newspaper. The photo clearly shows the Member for Humber

West presenting a government cheque to a community group.

I am seeking some clarification from the House on this practice since the

member should know the difference and the Government House Leader or the Premier

should have taken the time to reinforce or establish this practice with members

on their side of the House.

I am not sure if the practice of not allowing this kind of cheque

presentation, as established by the previous Premier, is still in force or if

there is a new standard of conduct being established by the current Premier.

Given this recommendation on the Green report and the previously established

practice, I want to ask for some clarification on the matter from the Government

House Leader, or the current Premier, or the Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there have been cases where I, myself, have received cheques

from government departments to be delivered to my constituents; however, I was

of the understanding that I was not permitted to present that in a public

fashion. I need to have clarification from the House as to whether that standard

in the Green report still stands and if it is still the practice of government,

or if the Premier or the House of Assembly has shifted priorities?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader, to the point of order.

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of what the member opposite

is talking about. If I could just see a copy of what she is referring to, Mr.

Speaker.

It is my understanding from the Green report, Mr. Speaker, that members

cannot make donations from the constituency allowance or personal allowance, but

that government cheques or cheques on behalf of government can be presented. Can

I see a copy of the

MS JONES: I gave it to the Page to give to you.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, there is also another issue here: How is this a

point of order? The House Management committee deals with the

interpretation of

Green, and then if there is an amendment that has to be brought to the

legislation, there is a way to go about that.

I am a bit concerned, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the timing of this. We are

here today getting ready for the House of Assembly and we are getting these

kinds of points being raised by the member opposite. I really question, Mr.

Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: I really question the validity of raising this kind of issue

in the House of Assembly when it is one that - as you are well aware - we deal

with in the Management Commission on a regular basis.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I am looking at this photograph, there is a

reference of receiving $40,000 from the provincial government. She just admitted

herself, she being the Opposition House Leader, that she has presented

government cheques in the past. So I really do not know what she is talking

about here.

MS JONES: I did not say that.

MR. KENNEDY: Well, look at Hansard.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, what we are having here is a situation where

the proceedings of this House are being disrupted by the member opposite with

frivolous

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: - where the proceedings of this House are being disrupted by

the member opposite trying to play lawyer here today and trying to raise issues

that she knows or ought to know, Mr. Speaker, are more properly dealt with in

the House Management Commission.

MR. SPEAKER: Further to the point of order?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The individual opposite has some room to talk about trying to play lawyer in

the House of Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I am raising a legitimate issue that was written about in the

Green report. It is a standard by which all MHAs are supposed to conduct

themselves. We have a copy of a newspaper article; it was passed to me late

yesterday afternoon. I had an opportunity to look at it. It is of an MHA

presenting public money, as was stated in the Green report, on behalf of the

government. I am asking for clarification as to how that impacts the regulations

in the Green report and if it is a different standard that is being set by the

current Administration.

Mr. Speaker, I did not say in this House that I had presented cheques to

groups publicly in my district because, Mr. Speaker, what I said was there were

cheques that were sent to my office from government departments for charitable

organizations in my district. Did I bring those cheques to them and pass it over

a desk to them? Yes, I did. Did I go out and make a public donation? No, I did

not. Do you know why I did not? It is because of the regulations that were in

the report. I am seeking clarification as to the Green report and what that

particular standard implies in the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and I just

ask for that clarification.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has raised a point of order. My ruling suggests

that this is not a point of order to be considered by the House, but in my role

as the Chair of the Internal Economy Commission I will take the issue under

consideration and provide some advice to members who sit in the House with

respect to the recommendations of Green and how it applies to members'behaviour

and conduct as they carry out their roles in their constituencies.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Today we have members'statements from the hon. the Member for the District

of Cape St. Francis, the hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl South,

the hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay Cape la Hune, the hon. the

Member for the District of Bay Verte Springdale, the hon. the Member for the

District of Port au Port, and the hon. the Member for the District of Lake

Melville.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the 2011 Small Business Award

Winners in the Town of Torbay.

On November 29, the third annual Torbay Small Business awards were held at

the Kinsmen Community Centre. The awards night has been growing since its

inaugural event won the 2010 Marketing Canada Awards in Quebec City as Best

Special Event in Canada in its class.

Mr. Speaker, there were three awards handed out and a total of seven

nominees. The winners were Mudder's Mobile Kitchen for Best New Business, Bob

Newman for Entrepreneur of the Year, and Metal World for Existing Business of

the year. This program has been put in place by the economic development of the

town to recognize and reward their business community, which has been enjoying

incredible growth.

I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating the Town of Torbay,

the nominees, as well as the award winners in such a great event.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANE: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in this hon.

House to recognize the City of Mount Pearl on being awarded the 2011

Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador Torngat Award in the category of

Environmental Sustainability. This was presented to the city for the leadership

demonstrated in the construction of the Glacier Arena Expansion project, which

incorporates a geothermal heating system, grey water and an Eco-Chill waste heat

recovery system. It is also my understanding that the city intends to

incorporate this new technology into the construction of their new recreational

multiplex project.

Mr. Speaker, this project demonstrates the progressive, cutting edge approach

to governance which the City of Mount Pearl is so well known for throughout this

Province. I would therefore ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the City of Mount Pearl on this significant achievement and

commend them on their outstanding commitment to environmental sustainability.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay Cape

la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS PERRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate Mr. Donald Stewart of Harbour

Breton for receiving the Herbert D. Brett Lifetime Achievement Award.

It is quite an honour to be recognized for one's outstanding contributions,

and Mr. Stewart has indeed been a strong leader within Fortune Bay Cape La

Hune. From his early beginnings founding the South Coast Regional Development

Association through to his roles today, he has made a meaningful difference in

the lives of many.

Mr. Speaker, Donald Stewart also served in this hon. House as our member from

1979 to 1985, and he served us exceptionally well during that time. He was

instrumental in establishing our local newspaper, known today as The Coaster ,

and has served on numerous local committees and boards, including six years as

Mayor of the Town of Harbour Breton.

Since the 1960s, he has been a successful business person, and today he

serves as Chair of the Regional Board, Chair of the Harbour Breton Investment

Corporation, member of the Central Newfoundland Rural Secretariat, and

councillor. He is truly an honourable man who continually gives of his time and

skills in a volunteer capacity. He is always looking for and analyzing new

opportunities for the region, and is indeed an economic development asset to the

Coast of Bays.

It would be impossible to put a dollar figure on the countless hours, weeks,

months, and years he has dedicated to making our home a better place

economically stronger and socially stable. We all look forward to many more

years of great leadership to come.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in recognizing

Mr. Donald Stewart for his outstanding contribution to the betterment of rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I count it a privilege to stand in this hon. House today to applaud the

outstanding volunteer work that the King's Point-Rattling Brook firefighters

provide to the residents of the area. The extraordinary service and commitment

that they display is greatly appreciated and respected by the entire community.

Whether it is a motor vehicle accident, a burning house, flooding, or some other

emergency, the King's Point-Rattling Brook firefighters are there, on call,

24-7.

Mr. Speaker, with strong support from the mayor and council, and in fact,

from the whole town, these unsung heroes will continue to serve with passion,

with pride, and with courage. Not going unnoticed is their time, energy, and

effort expended to keep the fire department running smoothly and efficiently.

Today, more than ever before, various emergencies come their way, and in each

case, sometimes not knowing what to expect, but with boldness and an unusual

courage, they bravely meet the challenge.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. colleagues to join me in conveying our

appreciation and gratitude to King's Point-Rattling Brook firefighters for

serving so unselfishly in their capacity as firefighters.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port au Port.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. CORNECT: Monsieur le prsident, je prends la parole aujourd'hui

l'honorable Chambre d'assemble afin de reconnatre le Centime Anniversaire de

la Paroisse de Lourdes.

The history of Our Lady of Lourdes Parish, Mr. Speaker, has made it unique in

that it has not only been a place of worship, but it has been a source of

strength and guidance to the communities it serves.

There are many activities planned throughout the Centennial year that will

celebrate the past, the present, and plan for the future.

Mr. Speaker, it is also a time to congratulate and say thank you to all the

parishioners of Our Lady of Lourdes Parish for their commitment and dedication

to making a valuable contribution to their communities.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members of this hon. House of Assembly to join

with me in congratulating Our Lady of Lourdes Parish on its 100th anniversary.

Merci, monsieur le prsident.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to recognize and

congratulate a dear friend of mine and a very well-known individual in

Newfoundland and Labrador, and more specifically, the great District of Lake

Melville, Mr. Alton Best.

This past September, Mr. Best was inducted into the Order of Newfoundland and

Labrador in recognition of being an outstanding individual who has greatly

contributed to the preservation of traditional music of Labrador as one of the

founding members of the musical group, The Flummies.

Mr. Speaker, anyone who knows Alton knows that he is certainly no stranger to

charity work and that he has given freely of his time and his music for decades

whenever he is called upon. I would like to give mention to the warmth and

overall presence of this man; whether it is a smile or handshake in passing, a

great conversation over a cup of tea, or a boat ride to the Mud Lake Fair, you

can be sure when you ran into or visited with Alton you came away feeling as if

you had just spent time, even if just a moment, with a truly great man.

I know that Alton right now and his wife Ena are going through some difficult

times. I would like to wish them all the best as they fight to overcome this

latest challenge.

Mr. Speaker, on October 11 last year, I stood in front of a packed campaign

headquarters to give my election victory speech; as I spoke to the support of

the different communities in my district, I came across the smile and the look

of pride of Mr. Alton Best, and I was humbled once more.

With pride I now ask this all members of this hon. House to join me in

recognizing a true son of Labrador, Mr. Alton Best.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise with sadness today to acknowledge the passing of Mr.

Lanier W. Phillips and to offer condolences to his loved ones and to the many he

formed lasting friendships with here in our Province.

In the darkness of the morning of February 18, 1942, as the USS Truxtun

and the USS Pollux were being battered by heavy seas in a blinding

snowstorm, little did the people of St. Lawrence and Lawn know that they would

be called upon to respond to one of the worst sea disasters in US naval history.

They answered that call, Mr. Speaker, with courage and unflinching resolve.

While approximately 200 men were lost that day, 186 survived due to their heroic

actions.

One of those survivors was a young man who was just shy of his nineteenth

birthday. Lanier Phillips, as he has so eloquently expressed, was overwhelmingly

impacted by the way he was welcomed and cared for following the disaster. Many

of the women of St. Lawrence were involved in the care of the sailors as they

recuperated. It was Mrs. Violet Pike who undertook to take Mr. Phillips, the

only black man to survive, into her home to provide the care and nourishment he

needed. Mr. Speaker, I often think of Mrs. Pike and the women of St. Lawrence,

who by their simple yet profound gestures, revealed to Mr. Phillips the

existence of equality and human kindness, regardless of skin colour. They

changed his life and ours, Mr. Speaker. His ability to become all that he could

be in the years that followed was rooted firmly in the community and in the

people of St. Lawrence. Our lives changed because of Violet Pike and Lanier

Phillips. We all have a deeper and richer understanding of the impact and

importance of simple acts of kindness and respect for our fellow human beings.

I had the honour of meeting Mr. Phillips when he was inducted into the Order

of Newfoundland and Labrador last fall. Lanier Phillips embodied the true spirit

of the order through his eloquence in promoting Newfoundlanders and Labradorians

as compassionate, generous, and brave. He holds an important place in the

history of this Province and on behalf of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians,

I offer my deepest sympathies to his loved ones.

I will close with the words of A.L. Bristol, Rear Admiral in the US Navy at

the time of the disaster who expressed in his letter of gratitude to the people

of St. Lawrence, "Memories of such acts can never die, and the total of almost

two hundred men and officers saved on this occasion will stand as a monument to

the people of St. Lawrence and all Newfoundland, in the hearts and minds of all

who know the story."

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the Premier for the advance copy of the statement. Certainly, we

offer our condolences to the family, to his loved ones, and to the friendships

that were made in our Province

When we think of this young eighteen-year-old who grew up in a time when

racism was prevalent in the US at the time, and was part of the marine disaster

that claimed the lives of 203 men on February 18, as I thought of this

eighteen-year-old young man who was fighting for his life, I am sure he really

did not know what to expect if indeed he did make it ashore. What happened on

that night changed his life forever and was a new beginning for him. It was an

experience that changed, as I said, his outlook on life but also his philosophy

on life.

We have to recognize the people of St. Lawrence and Lawn for their heroic

efforts, but, in particular Mrs. Violet Pike for the work that she did in

nursing him back to health. What it did is when he went back home he began a

very successful career and, indeed, led his own and became an activist in his

own right.

He had the opportunity, as was said, to return to Newfoundland on a number of

occasions, and we are certainly privileged and honoured that he is recognized as

a recipient of the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the Premier for the advance copy of her statement. I was very

sad yesterday to hear of the passing of Lanier Phillips. I express my

condolences to his family and his friends on behalf of our caucus.

It was so good that he was able to come for the seventieth anniversary of

this disaster. The event on February 18, 1942 was very significant, both for him

and certainly for the people of St. Lawrence and Lawn. I know that he will be

remembered by them every year as they commemorate the disaster that actually

served to prove their mettle as communities.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in Newfoundland and Labrador, we are home to some

well-established co-operatives that have contributed greatly to community and

business developments. We are also home to newer co-operatives that hold

tremendous promise.

In Southern Labrador, when the Bank of Montreal withdrew its operations,

residents stepped up, mobilized their resources, and formed the Eagle River

Credit Union. It was a collective effort and ensured that the delivery of

financial services would continue, and today it has accumulated more than $79

million in assets.

By pooling valuable resources so that it could better access equipment and

expertise, the Newfoundland Independent Filmmakers Co-operative has helped grow

the sector to $30 million up from $2 million just a decade ago.

More recently, Seed to Spoon has emerged as a co-operative that sells locally

grown produce to restaurants, residents, and the St. John's Farmers'Market. It

is proving to be a positive relationship among co-operatives, local farmers, and

community members, directly linking products with consumers.

In January, I accompanied representatives from local co-operatives at the

Canadian launch of the International Year of Co-operatives. Just last week, I

was pleased to join several local co-operatives in formally proclaiming 2012 as

the Year of Co-operatives in Newfoundland and Labrador.

As a government, we view co-operatives as being integral in community and

economic developments. Co-operatives serve a key role in developing industry

sectors and addressing market demands.

In the coming weeks, the provincial government will be renewing its

Memorandum of Understanding with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of

Co-operatives. We want to build off the progress made from our 2007 agreement,

which positioned this Province as a leader in Canada for our working

relationship with the provincial co-operative business association.

Mr. Speaker, the door is open to further strengthen and develop

co-operatives. This MOU is one important step in that process. Co-operatives are

good for communities, they are good for industry growth, and they are good for

the Province. Over the course of 2012, I encourage all members of this hon.

House to join in celebrating the value of co-operatives in their own districts.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise and acknowledge the work that is being done by the

Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Co-operatives in this Province, but more

particularly, Mr. Speaker, to recognize the work that has been done by many

prominent co-operatives throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

The one that comes to mind that the minister did not mention is the Labrador

Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company, which is one of the longest standing

co-operatives ever established in this Province. Although he alluded to the

Eagle River Credit Union, he should realize it was the Labrador Fishermen's

Union Shrimp Company that actually put up the money to start the second

co-operative, which was the banking system in that area. Not only today is the

Shrimp Company a co-operative that owns and operates five fish plants on the

Coast of Labrador, two offshore vessels, offshore licences, but, Mr. Speaker,

they employ over 1,500 people in coastal, rural Labrador. That is a success

story in the co-operative movement. The other success story is the Eagle River

Credit Union have seen a small banking operation in the community of

L'Anse-au-Loup spread out and set up seven branches throughout Northern

Newfoundland and throughout Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to the minister and his government when they

look for solutions for Marystown and OCI, maybe they should be looking to the

success of co-operatives in this Province and what they have done for the

fishing industry in employing people as opposed to spending $20 million to bring

a couple of dozen jobs to Newfoundland and Labrador at a cost of $360,000 a

person. If you want a real success that works, look at the co-operative model.

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member to conclude her comments, please.

MS JONES: Spend your money at home and create the jobs at home, I say to

the government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement

today.

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to see the government allocate some attention to

co-operatives. Mr. Speaker, I would like to highlight a sector that the minister

in his statement had missed, and that of course is our fisheries. In 1967 the

Fogo Island Co-op started operations and today the co-op has sales of over $15

million. When communities come together, such as they do when creating a co-op,

we see profound economic, social and cultural benefits. This is a business model

governments should encourage and nurture, especially in rural areas of our

Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, at the Department of Justice we recognize that it is important

to think of new ways to help inmates and show that they have much to offer for

the community from within the correctional walls.

The canine therapy program is a prime example of innovative programs which

help both the community and the inmate. Now, Mr. Speaker, corrections have not

gone to the dogs. This program was first offered last July at the Bishop's Falls

Correctional Centre and the West Coast Correctional Centre in Stephenville and

it has grown in leaps and bounds, pardon the pun. It has expanded to the

Labrador Correctional Centre in Happy Valley- Goose Bay and the Newfoundland and

Labrador Correctional Centre for Women in Clarenville with great success.

Mr. Speaker, the program provides dogs with care and attention while giving

inmates the opportunity to be responsible for a dog and its training. Some of

these animals have had difficult experiences and require special attention in

regaining trust. The dogs are assigned to particular inmates, who have to go

through a screening process. Inmates are responsible for exercising, walking,

grooming, cleaning, feeding and teaching the dogs positive and healthy

behavioural habits with the hopes of the dogs being adopted in the community

upon completion of the program.

Since the start of the program, Mr. Speaker, over thirty-five dogs have been

successfully adopted. This success has been all the more rewarding when you

consider the therapeutic benefits of the relationship between the dogs and their

trainers. We have seen positive impacts on the individual inmates and in their

relationships with correctional officers.

Mr. Speaker, I especially want to thank the Society for the Prevention of

Cruelty to Animals in the communities of Stephenville, Bishop's Falls,

Clarenville, and Happy Valley-Goose Bay, who have embraced this initiative

wholeheartedly, and have been instrumental in providing dogs for the program. In

addition, I want to thank the correctional staff at the facilities, and the

inmates for their enthusiasm and dedication. They have made the Canine Therapy

Program the success that it is.

Mr. Speaker, since the 2009 release of Decades of Darkness: Moving Towards

the Light , the Department of Justice has invested $7 million into

revitalizing the Newfoundland and Labrador correctional system. This program is

one example of innovative and successful programming that is part of that

revitalization.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

Canine therapy is indeed a mutually beneficial program for both inmates and

dogs. The dogs are employed for therapy in many realms for the physical aid they

provide to people with physical disabilities, as well as the unconditional love

they provide to those deprived of acceptance and social interaction. Reviews of

such programs have certainly shown the benefits to inmates, and certainly shown

the benefit to the many groups that take

part in this.

These dogs in need of extra training are, in many cases, saved from

euthanasia, as shelters simply do not have the space or the funding to take care

of them. I would point out that the City of St. John's animal care facility,

which is the envy of every other animal shelter in this Province, is actually in

far better condition than Her Majesty's Penitentiary.

Innovations in animal sheltering and in corrections are both positives. What

we would now like to see from this government is the Animal Health and

Protection Act be proclaimed during this sitting of the House. Until the act

becomes law, it cannot be implemented by law enforcement and other animal rescue

groups. In the meantime, these companion animals sit and languish in neglect and

cruelty. So I would like to congratulate those animal activists that have

brought this creative program to our Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister for his

advance copy of his statement.

I am happy to hear of the success of the Canine Therapy Program in the

correctional centres in our Province. The excellent care the dogs are receiving

is commendable. However, we know that inmates do not get outside, inmates do not

get regular exercise, and they themselves do not have access to training

programs and teaching programs. It is unfortunate that the minister does not see

that therapy and rehabilitation are as important for our inmates as they are for

canine companions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, the Premier, when we asked about the looming budget cuts for the

fourth straight time, she provided a different answer. First it was 3 per cent

across the board; then it was something less than $100 million; then it was

temporary or contract employees, plus the 3 per cent; then yesterday it was

about one third of the temporary employees.

So I ask the Premier: Will you finally tell the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador how many jobs are on the chopping block, and what services will be cut?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in questioning about the Budget and our approach to the Budget

and how we are going to manage the current deficit, I provided information to

the people of the Province about some expectations they could have. What I have

asked my Cabinet to do, Mr. Speaker, is do a complete review of core mandate, in

that, to look for 3 per cent savings across the board, with the exception of a

number of services that have been ring fenced, such as education, health,

policing, and income support, Mr. Speaker.

As a result of that exercise, there will be, we expect, some job losses. We

have absolutely capped it at one third. Mr. Speaker, we will make the number,

the exact number, known when we announce the Budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, the Premier stated in the media that she was reviewing all

temporary employees the same way that you review permanent employees. There was

also a comment made that typically, when you review programs, it means cuts.

So I ask the Premier: What do you mean by this statement? Are permanent

employees subject to job reviews also?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I respectfully suggest to the Leader of

the Opposition that if he is going to quote me out of a scrum, that you actually

should attend it. Then you will hear that I said nothing about a review of

permanent employees. I have stated quite clearly in this House and outside this

House that there will be no permanent employees to lose their jobs as a result

of this exercise.

In terms of temporary employees and contractual employees, those positions

are always under review and will they be looked at in this exercise?

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: and we will be able to clearly say to the people of

the Province the number of those jobs that will be affected when we announce the

budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The comment I was speaking to was actually made to the Leader of the Third

Party when we were talking about health reviews.

So, Mr. Speaker, the Premier has said that people need to relax while she

performs her spending review to relax while they wonder if they will lose

their jobs.

So I ask the Premier: How can you ask people to relax when you have no plan

on how you are going to impose these cuts, and how public comments you have made

all over the map?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I point out to the Leader of the Opposition that the Budget is

the plan. Mr. Speaker, anybody in this Province who is under the illusion that a

temporary job is a permanent job, or that a contract lasts for a lifetime, is

misinformed. By the very definition of a temporary job means it is not

permanent; it is there for a certain period of time.

Mr. Speaker, when we did hire the former Auditor General in a contractual

position, Mr. Noseworthy his contract is for one year; one year, not for five

years, not for ten years, not for two years. That is the definition of a

contractual employee or a temporary employee, Mr. Speaker. We will be able to

give the definitive numbers at the Budget, and I think the people of the

Province will be very relieved to know that number is going to be very small.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Now that the Premier has mentioned the former AG, Mr. John Noseworthy, I

would ask the Premier: Are you prepared to table the contract and the Terms of

Reference, immediately?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as the Premier had indicated, all departments are

asked to review their core mandates. Having a new department of Advanced

Education and Skills certainly brings together the post-secondary division of

the former Department of Education, as well as some of the components of the

former Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

Mr. Speaker, in doing that, we certainly feel that the skills Mr. Noseworthy

can bring to that department for a one-year period, to help us review the core

mandate and make sure that the programs and services that the new department

delivers, are able to assist people in the attachment to the labour market.

Mr. Speaker, the whole labour shortage, looming labour shortage and what we

need to do to assist the people of this Province to attach to the labour market,

has been the impetus for the development of this new department.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday in the House, the Minister of Natural Resources contrived what was

really a media stunt by tabling eight boxes of information on Muskrat Falls.

This information, as we know, was already available on the Public Utilities

Board Web site. Since the House opened

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BALL: we have asked the minister to table any report or studies

that have been related to LNG, or natural gas pipeline, from the Grand Banks. We

have also asked for five-year cash flow projections from Nalcor, and we have

asked for the power purchase agreement between Nalcor and Newfoundland Hydro.

None of these documents that were requested have been tabled, so I ask the

minister: Are you prepared to table those?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Ed Martin, the President of Nalcor, outlined in great detail

the steps that they had taken in terms of looking at the options for Muskrat

Falls, Holyrood refurbished. They indicated that at the Decision Gate 2 process,

liquefied natural gas was screened out. Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Martin indicated, it

was a fairly easy decision at that point because the viability of building a 350

to 650 kilometre pipeline from the Grand Banks just did not work. I am not aware

of any LNG study.

Mr. Speaker, I have indicated on several occasions, I have met with experts,

notably Wood MacKenzie in New York, PIRA in New York, and Ziff Energy of Calgary

and discussed natural gas. I have indicated that the opinions given to us

unanimously are that natural gas is not going to work. There are no studies or

reports that I am aware of. If there are, they are in the eight boxes and I

suggest that the Opposition go through them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Well, they are not in the boxes. There was a comment made in

this House last week, though, that it was kind of conclusive, the impression I

had from that.

Mr. Speaker, the government's 2007 Energy Plan clearly states that our

Province will receive the full benefit of the Upper Churchill in 2041; however,

the Manitoba Hydro report states that Nalcor has not considered sourcing Upper

Churchill power because of the uncertainty of what will happen in 2041.

I ask the Premier: Can you explain why Nalcor is uncertain of what will

happen with Upper Churchill power after 2041? Are there concerns that we may not

gain control of this resource?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member opposite mentioned the Energy Plan. The

Energy Plan is the platform in which we lead to 2041 and the return of the Upper

Churchill. What we are doing, Mr. Speaker, we are taking our non-renewable

resource monies, our oil money, we are building schools, infrastructure and

hospitals leading with Muskrat Falls and Gull Island, hopefully, to the

development of a renewable resource economy. What we are always looking for, Mr.

Speaker, is looking towards that day for our children and grandchildren when the

Upper Churchill will be returned.

There are other issues, yes, certainly, Mr. Speaker. CF(L)Co is owned 65 per

cent by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and 35 per cent by

Hydro-Quebec. It is not simply a matter that there will be free power upon the

return of the Upper Churchill in 2041. There are issues that have to be worked

out, the CF(L)Co board has fiduciary obligations upon them. Mr. Speaker, we are

always looking towards 2041, and Muskrat Falls is an important first step.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, OCI sent a trawler to sea last month crewed by

scab labour, displacing the trawlermen who have worked with the company for

upwards of forty years.

I ask the Premier: Do you support collective bargaining in the Province or is

this your way to crush and destroy the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the role of government, and indeed the role of the Minister of

Labour and the Department of Labour are to provide conciliation services. In

December, Mr. Speaker, in the current labour dispute that the member refers, I

was written, I provided the conciliation services. That conciliation service

remains. I encourage both parties to come and meet with the conciliator and find

that common ground, Mr. Speaker, and to get an agreement.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, the Government of New Brunswick announced at

the Boston Seafood Show that they plan to fly seafood from Moncton to Europe at

top dollar for their province.

I ask the Premier: When our Minister of Fisheries gets back from the same

show, hopefully enlightened, does she still intend to let OCI barge our fish to

China at rock-bottom prices?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot say as to what discussions took place at the Boston Seafood Show,

Mr. Speaker, but the minister will be back this afternoon. I will certainly

undertake to speak to him about it, and if there is something to be announced, I

am sure the minister will announce that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Education, and it pertains to the school

in my district, in Charlottetown, that has been closed. Mr. Speaker, parents and

students are very frustrated over the continuing delays and closure of their

school which has reached three weeks now. They are not happy with the fact that

air quality testing has been taking so long. In fact, the remediation work that

has been done was not adequate and suitable to allow them to go back into the

facility, and more air quality testing has been ongoing.

I ask the minister today: When can we expect to see the final air quality

test and inspection reports from this school, and can he tell me what the

government's plan is for the full replacement of that school in Charlottetown?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, let me be clear right up front. The safety of

our students will not be compromised in any way. That comes first and foremost.

This is about identifying what exactly the problem, and then putting in place

the solution.

Mr. Speaker, the Western School District did bring in an independent

consultant, they carried out tests last week, and there were elevated levels of

mould found. The second set of testing is being conducted today. When the report

comes back, Mr. Speaker, those results will be provided to the school community.

I would ask the school community to co-operate with us, and we will find our way

through this, and there will be a facility that these students will return to

that will be safe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The problem in this community is that there are no suitable temporary

accommodations to school the children in. The community centre closed down a

year ago. They have an application before the government now for a new community

centre in that community for the same reasons. Mr. Speaker, the parents and

teachers, it is an understatement when I say they are frustrated because they

are beyond that. The school they are in is forty-seven years old. The ceilings

have fallen in, there has been numerous oil spills in the school. There have

been problems, Mr. Speaker, with circuit breakers tripping and so on.

I ask the minister and the government: Will they consult with the Western

School Board and look at making the replacement of this school a priority for

the children in the community of Charlottetown?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we have consulted with the Western School

District; as a matter of fact, for about two hours this morning staff were

discussing this particular situation with the Western School District.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot determine yet as to what the students will return to,

but, Mr. Speaker, we will not play any politics with this at all. The member

knows that in the last number of years there have been two new schools that have

gone into her district. We will do an assessment of this situation and we will

turn this around as quickly as we can in conjunction with the Western School

District and the school council and the community. Again, we will not compromise

student safety and when these students return to a facility, whatever that

facility will be, it will be a safe one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, last year we questioned this government on

its hiring of their PC friend Roebothan McKay and Marshall to pursue tobacco

litigation. Yesterday, the Canadian Press reported that six provinces have

retained a national legal team to prosecute Canadian tobacco companies and this

Province was not listed among them.

I ask the minister: Why are we not part of this national litigation team?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are familiar with the court case that the hon. member refers

to, it started in Montreal. It has nothing to do whatsoever with our action, Mr.

Speaker, in litigation against tobacco companies; that action is ongoing, Mr.

Speaker. We have filed our statements of claim. We are into affidavit stage. A

case management judge has been appointed. Our case is proceeding, Mr. Speaker,

very well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister of Innovation,

Business and Rural Development about his program of paying $360,000 for each job

created.

Today, I ask the minister: Can you table a breakdown of who received the

jobs, where were they created, what were the companies involved, and did

employers contribute to those jobs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, the funding referenced was funded through the

former Department of Business and certainly looked at sustaining, attracting and

creating new jobs. The total was approximately 348, but outside of that, all of

the programs we are doing now through the former INTRD and IBRD now, we are

creating hundreds of jobs throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, in rural

communities across Newfoundland and Labrador. Seventy-five percent of the funds

that are used through my current department go into rural Newfoundland and

Labrador. We are creating jobs; we are assisting small- and medium-sized

businesses. We continue to do that, Mr. Speaker. As we go forward, if we see

policy and direction that we need to go in is somewhat different, we will

certainly do that, but we will do that with stakeholders and working with the

communities to make sure we maximize the benefits for Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, will the minister table the documents

requested?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, yes, I will certainly take under advisement

what the hon. member has asked for and provide what I can to the House in the

near future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, there are many other obscene examples of

wasteful spending by this government. Can the Premier confirm that this type of

waste will be targeted before her 3 per cent Budget cuts are inflicted on our

people?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest they have a caucus meeting and get their questions

straight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I have one member of the caucus

chastising me for doing any kind of cutting, and then I have another member of

the caucus telling me to cut because there is waste. You really should get

together and decide what your questions are going to be in Question Period.

Mr. Speaker, we are always mindful of the responsibility we have as a

government for good fiscal management. That is what we are doing all the time.

That is what we are doing now in a very targeted process of reviewing of core

mandates to make sure that we are living up to our responsibility to provide

services to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador as efficiently and as

effectively as we possibly can.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier is not clearly communicating government's intentions

regarding the review of services and cutbacks and it is causing great anxiety in

the public service. The Premier has said that she is asking departments to do a

review of their spending, but we have not heard a clear explanation of what her

government is planning.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What are the criteria that she will be using

to determine who will stay and who will go?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest to the Leader of the Third Party that my plan is a lot

clearer than her blanket statement in her orange book, I guess, that she was

going to cut 1 per cent right across the board. Mr. Speaker, we are going to

look to find 3 per cent savings, and we are going to do that by reviewing core

mandates to make sure that the services that are being provided to the people of

the Province are first of all relevant and effective, and that we are doing that

as efficiently as possible.

Mr. Speaker, I have been absolutely clear, there will be no loss of jobs to

permanent employees, but we are going to use attrition; we are going to have a

look at attrition to try and manage growth in the public service. We are also,

in this process, going to review temporary jobs and contract jobs, but we do not

expect any great job loss in that process either.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, for clarification from the Premier, I wonder,

could I ask what her definition of a temporary employee is, because we are aware

through Estimates of people who have been in temporary positions for ten,

fifteen and twenty years.

Are they temporary, Mr. Speaker, I ask?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A temporary employee, Mr. Speaker, is somebody who does not have permanent

understood by government and by people in the public service.

Yes, we have circumstances in which jobs have been deemed temporary and

deemed temporary too long, in my estimation, Mr. Speaker. We are reviewing that

also to find if there is a way to bring balance to that situation, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the spirit of trying to get some balance, let me try the next one. Over

the past eight years, government has hired over 2,100 people.

Is the Premier now telling us that there are 800 jobs among those people that

really do not need to be done and that public service does not need?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: No, Mr. Speaker, I am not saying that. I have never

said that there are going to be 800 job losses. Do we put a cap do we put a

cap? We certainly did talk about a cap yesterday, that you would not consider

going anywhere near a third or above a third of temporary employees.

I was very clear in my statements yesterday in my scrum; in fact, I said

three times that the numbers will be nowhere near that. As we do our review, Mr.

Speaker, we become more and more comfortable with the fact that there is going

to be a very small number associated with any job loss because of this 3 per

cent review.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I suggest to the Premier that if she had not opened up this topic publicly

and put bargaining issues out in the public, she would not be in the trap she is

in now, not knowing what to say.

Mr. Speaker, the budgetary process is well known. Departmental budgets are

prepared well in advance and are prepared in line with government directives.

Mr. Speaker, government kept this House closed for five months; the Premier said

at the time her new government needed time to prepare for the opening. Mr.

Speaker, knowing government has had departmental budgets for months, I ask the

Premier why government waited until the days after the Throne Speech to decide

they needed a review of spending.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if the Leader of the Third Party thinks I am going to engage in

an exercise and not be straightforward with the people of the Province about

what is happening inside government, I have news for you, I am not going to do

that.

The people of the Province have a right to know what their government is

engaged in, in terms of determining the services that are required by the people

of the Province and how they are going to be delivered. That is all part of the

Budget process. With all due respect, the Budget process has been ongoing within

this government since we were sworn in, in late October. It is a long, arduous

process, Mr. Speaker. We are dealing with almost $8 billion hundreds of

millions of dollars in programming. It is a long process and we will have a

wonderful product to produce next month.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not think the Premier needs to insult the intelligence of the people in

this Province, but it has been nine months since the House was open. They were

re-elected in October, without changing any of their mandates; they could have

had a Budget ready by the end of March, which she said in the Throne Speech was

going to happen, Mr. Speaker.

Former Auditor General, John Noseworthy, has been hired to review the mandate

of the newly-minted Department of Advanced Education and Skills. The Premier

tells the media one of his duties will be to look at the role of temporary

employees. Mr. Speaker, in his March 31, 2011 report, the Auditor General

criticized government for the number of temporary employees now employed in that

and other departments across this government.

I ask the Premier: Can temporary employees in all departments expect similar

reviews of their roles and positions as Mr. Noseworthy will be doing about the

department he is hired by?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest the Leader of the Third Party come along to the scrums

with the Leader of the Opposition. Never have I said anything about Mr.

Noseworthy reviewing temporary positions. What we have is a brand new department

that is mandated to make sure that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are able to

take advantage of the opportunities that are abound in this Province, Mr.

Speaker, and will continue to be here for the next number of years.

We need to make sure that everybody in this Province has an opportunity to

benefit from this prosperity, Mr. Speaker. Just in grants alone, there is $82

million that go out of this department on a yearly basis. We need to know that

these programs are effective, efficient, responding to the real needs of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, daily we hear from constituents that they can be on hold for up

to an hour waiting for someone in the department, that Mr. Noseworthy will be

working with, to answer their call. It is especially true in that department.

So, Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: How would cutting jobs from that

department help the backlog that already exists?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, within the Department of Advanced Education and Skills we want

to do a thorough review of our mandate and how we deliver services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, if we feel there are needs that we can address to

help improve the flow of services, we will certainly do that.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to indicate to the hon. House here that we do have

some very efficient employees in our department who do their jobs very well, and

they are not idiots.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, last week this government said it was still

reviewing a proposal to legislate the use of strike breakers in this Province

out of existence once and for all. The minister downplayed the use of anti-scab

legislation in Canada, saying it was only in existence in British Columbia and

Quebec, but he chose to overlook the fact that those two provinces make up over

one third of the population of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Why is this government dragging its feet on

bringing in anti-scab legislation to protect our workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is referring to a couple of

incidents, but the hon. member has two jobs, as we all know here in the House,

and he is an academic in his real job. So, Mr. Speaker, to speak to him being an

academic, I would like to challenge him to read some of the work that some of

the academics have done throughout this country and throughout the world, and he

will quickly discover that there is a great divide on the usefulness of

replacement worker legislation.

Just the other night, Mr. Speaker, I was reading from two different

academics, like himself, with two different opinions two very varying

opinions. The first academic said, yes, that it increased the likelihood of

strike or labour unrest by 50 per cent, but it reduced the number of days that

it lasted. Mr. Speaker, the second academic said absolutely there should never

be replacement worker legislation because it lengthens (inaudible)

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, last month the Premier said she was absolutely

troubled by the arrests of two dozen Newfoundland Lynx trawlermen in Bay

Roberts. The Premier went on to say that she believed that negotiated

settlements are in the best interests of good labour relations in the Province.

I come from a fishing family in a fishing community, Mr. Speaker, and the

Premier does as well. She and I both know how hard these trawlermen have worked

over their thirty or forty years of service.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Is she sufficiently troubled by this to take

some responsibility and appoint a special mediator to meet with the parties and

help resolve this labour dispute?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I referenced earlier, Mr. Speaker, as a government and as a Department of

Labour, our role is to provide that moderator and provide the conciliation

services. Mr. Speaker, in late December one of the parties had written me asking

for that service; I think it was early January the conciliator was appointed.

The conciliator remains in place. I encourage both parties to work through that

conciliator.

These are very, very professional people, Mr. Speaker; they have great

success rates in bringing parties together and working out agreements.

Unfortunately, there are times when this does not work out, but I certainly

encourage both parties to get together and to iron out an agreement. We have the

professional people in place, they have been appointed, Mr. Speaker, and I

encourage them to use them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: There is time for one quick question.

The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, a May 2007 press release from this government

announced that the quotas formally held by Fishery Products International were

transferred to a holding company owned 49 per cent by the provincial government

and 51 per cent by Ocean Choice International.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Is she sufficiently troubled with the

treatment of the crew of the Newfoundland Lynx to initiate a meeting of

the shareholders of the quota holding company and seek resolution to this labour

dispute?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: (Inaudible) to comment, just a quick comment. The time for

Question Period has expired, but I will allow you one quick comment.

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we have people in the gallery today who I am

certain would rather be fishing rather than being here. Mr. Speaker, as

indicated, the way a solution has to be found here is for both parties to get to

the table, and as was already said, and I would encourage and our government

would encourage, that the parties get back to the table and find a solution

here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, just now in Question Period the Member for

Conception Bay South made comments with regard to the Member for St. John's

North that I think are quite questionable. The Member for Conception Bay South

referred to the profession of the Member for St. John's North, indicating that

he had a full job in that profession and implications being that as a member of

this House he is not in a full job.

Mr. Speaker, according to our legislation, any Member of the House of

Assembly, unless that person is a Minister of the Crown, is able to continue

other works besides being a Member of the House of Assembly. The important issue

is that the person fulfills his or her job to the full. Mr. Speaker, to make

reference, I believe in this

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: To make reference in this House to the profession of another

person is something that should not be happening on the floor of this House, Mr.

Speaker. I ask you to look at this issue. I do not think it is acceptable, and I

really do not want to hear it happening again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation, to

the point of order.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, if I were an academic, I encourage people to

become academic. I think it is a wonderful profession, Mr. Speaker. I salute the

hon. member. On his Web site www.dalekirby.com he promotes himself as having two

professions, Mr. Speaker. I acknowledge it and I congratulate him. I think it is

wonderful when a member has the time to work in this House and be an academic

besides, Mr. Speaker. I congratulate him and salute him for being able to carry

out two jobs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: First of all, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Conception Bay

South knows well that we do not refer to each other by our proper names here in

this House. He should not have referred to the Member for St. John's North in

the way that he did.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that the way in which the

member pointed out that the Member for St. John's North had a full-time job as

an academic undermines the issue that he is a full-time MHA in this House of

Assembly, Mr. Speaker, doing the work for his constituents day in and day out. I

really look for a ruling from the Speaker with regard to these kinds of things

happening here on the floor of the House, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To the point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the words used by the Minister of Environment was that the

member opposite had two jobs. That is all he said. He did not say anything more

than that. He referred to him being academic. I think he referred to him as

having a part-time job. The Green rules are clear that you can have a second job

as long as it does not interfere with your primary role as an MHA. Obviously, I

do not see where the point of order arises. It is simply a reference to what is

a fact.

Mr. Speaker, earlier today the Opposition House Leader said I am lawyer; I am

not a lawyer or something. People are referred to all the time by their

professions. I do not see the issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party, to the point of

order?

MS MICHAEL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, just to say I do not think it is for either

one of us on the floor to decide on the point of order. I leave it to you to

make a ruling.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation made

an observation in his comment that one of the members of the House is employed

in another profession, which is public knowledge. I think many of us in this

House would have read that in many forums and heard comments in the public

domain to that effect and it has not been denied. I do not see there is a point

of order as raised by the Leader of the Third Party.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I want to raise a real point of order now.

Earlier today the Member for St. Barbe referred to the fact that the Minister of

Fisheries, when he got back from the Boston Seafood Show he could perhaps answer

a question or he would deal with an issue. Mr. Speaker, Bosch and O'Brien

are clear at page 614, "Allusions to the presence or absence of a Member or

Minister in the Chamber are unacceptable. Speakers have upheld this prohibition

on the ground that there are many places that Members have to be in order to

carry out all the obligations that go with their office'."

It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that whether advertently or inadvertently the

member did breach that rule.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe, to the point of order.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that.

MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board, to ask leave to introduce a bill

entitled,

An Act To Amend The Liquor Control Act, Bill 11, and I further move,

Mr. Speaker, that the said bill be now read the first time.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Any further notices of motion?

MR. KENNEDY: No, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: I would ask the Government House Leader to re-enter that

motion when we get to the Orders of the Day.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition on behalf of people in the Province with

regard to home care. It says:

WHEREAS home care allows the elderly and people with disabilities to remain

within the comfort and security of their own homes. Home care also allows people

to be discharged from hospital earlier; and

WHEREAS many families find it very difficult to recruit and retain home care

workers for their loved ones; and

WHEREAS the Conservative Blue Book 2011 as well as the 2012 Speech from the

Throne committed that government would develop a new model of home care and give

people the option of receiving that care from family members; and

WHEREAS government has given no time commitment for when government plans to

implement paying family caregivers;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to implement a new home care model to

cover family caregivers in the 2012-2013 Budget.

Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that has been talked about for quite some time

in the Province. It is a commitment that the government opposite made actually

going back four years now we are into the fifth year in which they committed

to do a long-term care strategy for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We still have not seen that strategy; however, Mr. Speaker, in the middle of the

election campaign, the government opposite did go out and make a commitment to

the people of the Province that they would look at paying family caregivers.

People in the Province are now waiting to be paid for the services that they do

in providing home care to their loved ones.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I have dozens of e-mails which I could stand up in

this House and read from districts all over the Province, not just my own, from

people who are now providing care to elderly parents, to adult children, to

spouses and so on in their own homes. People have had to give up their jobs to

care for those who they love and provide that care, Mr. Speaker, in the absence

of no other home care program available to them or no long-term care facilities

available to them. There is an expectation that they will be paid for the

services that they provide.

We would encourage the government, Mr. Speaker, to bring that program into

effect to ensure that family members are paid for the care that they provide to

those that they love at home and that, that be done in the Budget that we are

hoping to see in the next month or so.

Mr. Speaker, in terms of cost, I will just give you one example. I tried to

get a constituent relocated to the hospital in Goose Bay last week only to find

out that every bed in the hospital was full, the nursery in the hospital was

filled, the emergency was filled, and there were no beds available. Mr. Speaker,

nine of those twenty-five beds were taken up with long-term care residents

because there is no where in Labrador to put them, yet we have the Paddon Home

that is sitting there not being used. We cannot get that opened, we cannot get

the family caregiver program activated, but long-term care is continuing to be a

serious problem in all parts of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise again today to present a petition on behalf of the residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador. I spoke on this petition twice last week. This is a

petition that has been circulated throughout the Province regarding needed

changes to the Department of Education school bus transportation policies, and

it reads something like the following:

WHEREAS school district restructuring has resulted in longer bus travel times

and more hazardous winter travel for rural students of all ages; and

WHEREAS due to recent school closures, children living within 1.6 kilometres

of school face increased barriers of congested streets and busy intersections in

the walk to school, and parents without cars are having more difficulty getting

children to different schools on foot; and

WHEREAS only those child care centres outside the 1.6 kilometre zone and

directly on bus routes are included in kindergarten noontime routes, causing

hardship for working parents; and

WHEREAS the 1.6 kilometre policy has been in place since 1975, and student

transportation policies have not been reviewed through public consultation since

1996; and

WHEREAS parents are expressing the need for more flexible policies for

student transportation and school restructuring to meet the current needs of

school children;

We, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge the government to

conduct a review of school bus transportation policies and school restructuring

to ensure safe and quality education for all school children in the Province.

As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

I took on this petition, Mr. Speaker, for a review of school busing

regulations in response to a constituent in my district. I just want to explain,

this is a single mom who lives on Thorburn Road, or in the Thorburn Road area,

and that is a busy street these days, because we have a lot of people coming in

from outside St. John's who are commuting to work. This young woman has two

children. She is a single mom; she has one elementary school age child, and she

has another child who is a newborn. She said to me, Dale, what am I going to do

I guess I should not say my own name, should I she said, what am I going to

do; I need to get my child to school, but I have a newborn that I have to care

for as well. So it is causing her great difficulty. It is because of the 1.6

kilometre rule that has been in place since 1975. Things get more problematic on

that street, as I said earlier, this time of the year when sidewalks are covered

with snow, and it is slippery out and so on.

So, we started this petition. As we started it, I started to receive calls

and e-mails from people from all around the Province. This petition here today

has petitioners from the Gander area included, and I just hope that the

government will see fit to heed this request from the petitioners.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on search and rescue. This is a petition

similar to what I have presented in the House already. These are ones that I got

yesterday from Happy Valley-Goose Bay. They say:

WHEREAS Labrador is a vast land mass with many isolated communities; and

WHEREAS unfortunately, search and rescue assets were not adequately deployed

during the search for Burton Winters; and

WHEREAS it is clear that permanent search and rescue assets are required in

Labrador;

WHEREPON your petitioners call upon all members of the House of Assembly to

urge government to do a full investigation into the Burton Winters tragedy, and

search and rescue in Labrador, and lobby the federal government to establish

permanent search and rescue capability at 5 Wing Goose Bay.

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I rise to present this petition

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: on behalf of people in Labrador. As I said, this petition was

sent to me by people in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, because this is an issue that

not just concerns the people of Northern Labrador or in the Makkovik area, but

all of Labrador, and I would say all of Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker.

People really believe that more needs to be done with search and rescue

services, and there needs to be a stronger commitment by the federal government.

They are calling upon the Province, Mr. Speaker, to be the ambassador for that,

to be the person who leads this particular initiative with the Government of

Canada to ensure that we get improved search and rescue services in Labrador and

in the Province as a whole. They are asking, Mr. Speaker, that 5 Wing Goose Bay

be looked at as a base for search and rescue for Labrador, and that the

equipment that is there be available to service the needs in the case of an

emergency.

When the incident happened with Burton Winters in Makkovik, the two Griffon

helicopters that were in the hangar in Happy Valley-Goose Bay were broken down.

We need to know the answers to that. We need to know why they were not

effectively in use and we need to know why the federal government is not making

that a first line of call and response for search and rescue in Labrador. There

is absolutely no reason why it cannot happen.

That is the reason people are coming to the House of Assembly. They want the

government to lead this file; they want them to put pressure on the feds to

ensure that is done and that service is provided, but also to ensure that the

Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre in St. John's stays open.

I was absolutely astounded yesterday to hear the responses in the House of

Commons to the questions that were being posed by the Newfoundland and Labrador

Members of Parliament on search and rescue. If that is the kind of response that

we are going to continue to get, it is going to require more action than just

petitions coming to the House of Assembly, I suggest to the government.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Okay, we are now, Mr. Speaker, in Orders of the Day.

MR. SPEAKER: Exactly.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board, to ask leave to introduce a bill

entitled,

An Act To Amend The Liquor Control Act, and I further move that same

bill be now read the first time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. Minister of Finance

and President of Treasury Board have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

To Amend The Liquor Control Act, Bill 11.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 11, and that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to

introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Liquor Control Act", carried. (Bill 11)

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Liquor Control Act. (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read the first time. When shall the

bill be read a second time?

MR. KENNEDY: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: On the Order Paper, Mr. Speaker, if I could call Motion 2.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion 2.

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Advanced

Education and Skills, the following resolution:

WHEREAS

section 7 of the House of Assembly Accountability, Integrity and

Administration Act provides that the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Assembly

is to be appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council on a nomination by the

House of Assembly;

NOW THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that Mr. William J. Brown be nominated for

appointment as the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that Bill Brown be nominated for appointment

as the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House of Assembly.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader, speaking to the motion.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to rise to speak to the resolution of appointing a new

Sergeant-at-Arms for the House of Assembly. First, though, Mr. Speaker, I would

like to recognize and thank Elizabeth Gallagher who dedicated fourteen years to

this role.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Elizabeth has become something of an

icon around here. I can remember in the first session of the House I did

something I was not supposed to do, and I was asked to apologize. I did not

realize if you do not apologize right away, well, Elizabeth comes and gets you.

I can remember, Mr. Speaker, I was sitting down there and she was coming toward

me, and she had a look in her eyes, so I quickly apologized because I certainly

did not want to have to tangle with her.

Ms Gallagher's attention to detail and respect for this Chamber, as well as

her deep commitment to the security and the order of the House of Assembly are

well known and deeply appreciated, Mr. Speaker, by all those who had the

opportunity to sit here. As she moves into a well-deserved retirement, Ms

Gallagher can reflect with satisfaction on her service to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. People like Ms Gallagher spend so many years of their

lives giving to the Province and oftentimes it goes unnoticed, so I think it is

very important that as a Chamber today we recognize and say thank you to

Elizabeth Gallagher for all the work she has done over the years.

Mr. Speaker, I am also pleased today that we will welcome another experienced

and well-qualified person to fill the position of Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. William

Brown brings to the role a wealth of experience and training in law enforcement.

I was reflecting, Mr. Speaker, this morning, trying to remember when myself, as

a defence lawyer, and Mr. Brown had first encountered each other in the court

system. My first memory is around 1990, and I was a bit of a crackie at the

time. I always remember being struck by Bill's calmness and how he did not rise

to the bait, Mr. Speaker, of the old defence lawyer tricks of trying to get the

police officer upset.

Mr. Brown then moved through the ranks of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary

and was instrumental in guiding the RNC to through that Lamer Inquiry where so

many changes were made in the way that the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary does

business. He moved to that of Deputy Chief of Police where, along with the

retired Chief Joe Browne and current Chief Bob Johnson, they certainly brought a

high degree of professionalism and integrity, Mr. Speaker, to the leadership at

the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary.

We heard my colleague yesterday, the member for Paradise

AN HON. MEMBER: Topsail.

MR. KENNEDY: the Member for Topsail partly Paradise talk about the

changes that have been made in the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary over the

years. One of the reasons for that, is when you have individuals like Mr. Brown

who start out at street patrol, work in the various duties throughout their

careers as policemen and then move to the Deputy Chief of Police, what they

bring with them, Mr. Speaker, is the experience that comes with being a

policeman on the beat, for lack of a better term, but also it brings out that

respect within the other members of our force.

Mr. Brown was there, Mr. Speaker, in that crucial time frame as referred to

by the Member for Topsail yesterday when 50 per cent of the new employees coming

into the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary are female, whereby we adopted the

Memorial University course, and that high level of training, Mr. Speaker, that

comes with being a policeman.

While we go back a long ways, Mr. Speaker, it is good to see him here in this

role, and again, like Elizabeth, I just hope that some day he does not have to

come and get me. I think that now I know the rules well in terms of apologizing,

which I had to do yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Brown has extensive knowledge and experience in security,

administration and leadership, along with an impressive record of community

involvement. Mr. Speaker, I can say, personally, on behalf of the government we

are delighted to have such a high quality candidate taking on the role of

Sergeant-at-Arms in our House of Assembly.

I invite all members of this House, Mr. Speaker, to join me in congratulating

Mr. William Brown on his appointment and wish him many years of productive and

enjoyable service to the venerable institution of the Newfoundland and Labrador

House of Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to speak to Motion 2. Like my colleague opposite, I want to

first of all take the opportunity to recognize Elizabeth Gallagher. Obviously,

Elizabeth was working in the precincts of the House of Assembly when I was first

elected and one of the first people that I met, and is certainly a lady of

tremendous knowledge when it comes to the history of this Province, the history

of the Legislature, and everything in and around this particular place.

Mr. Speaker, I want to recognize her commitment and her loyalty to all of us

as MHAs, to the House of Assembly in the work that she did. Even, Mr. Speaker, I

think for all of us, as MHAs, she was very valuable when we would bring students

in from our district. She would meet them in the foyer of Confederation Building

and give them tours of the House of Assembly, of the galleries, and so on and so

forth. There was no one I knew that was any more knowledgeable to be able to do

that.

I remember going on the first tour with her, myself, as a young MHA, and

coming into this House. She started pointing out to us who gave us the chairs

when we entered Confederation, and who gave us different signs, and who gave us

the Table when we moved into the new House of Assembly and the gifts from all

the provinces across Canada. She could just stand there and give you the full

story and the full scope of what it was all about. You knew when you brought

people to the House of Assembly and set them up with a tour with Elizabeth that

they were going to get full insight into what we were all about as a Legislature

and as a Province.

Mr. Speaker, I want to wish her well in her retirement. She was also a good

personal friend to me, having battled breast cancer herself, and continued to

work while she did so in the House of Assembly. She was an inspiration to many

women like myself, and she was certainly a support and an encouragement on many

a day through those particular times. I would be remiss if I did not mention

that.

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to welcome new people to our House of

Assembly, but especially pleased to welcome our new Sergeant-at-Arms, Mr. Brown,

who I might say is very, very good at his job. The first day I came in here I

did not have a headset, and within a minute I had two sets.

Mr. Speaker, the day the Member for Humber West got up to speak in the House

of Assembly I asked for earplugs. Sure enough, Mr. Speaker, I have my own

earplugs now in my drawer; not because I did not want to listen to the member, I

say to you, I wanted to listen very attentively. I can still hear every word you

say, absolutely.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make a few comments about Mr. Brown, because anyone

who has lived in this Province will know him from his years of service to the

Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. He has had a long term of service with them and

he was very highly regarded by the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary of this

Province, by his fellow officers and cadets. From the people I have talked to

and the stories I have heard, they have all been very good, I say to him. Mr.

Speaker, we also know he worked on very high profile investigations in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, earning him tremendous respect and

credibility for his work as an investigator and as a police officer, and

certainly giving all of us the feeling of being safe in this Province and

knowing that the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary was surrounded by good people

who were giving it good guidance and good direction.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Brown was very highly thought of by his colleagues in his

time of service there, and I am sure it will be no different in this Chamber, in

the House of Assembly. So, Mr. Speaker, in saying that, I certainly want to

welcome him as our new Sergeant-at-Arms. I want to say that he looks really

young to be retired and coming to start a new job, but I guess their loss at the

RNC is our gain in the House of Assembly. I just hope he never has to exercise

his policing responsibilities in the Legislature of the Province. I am sure he

will not because we all are very hon. men and women in this Chamber, Sir, so I

am pretty sure you will have absolutely no problem, and I wish you all the best

as you carry out your new duties and your new service to the people of this

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am quite delighted to be able to stand today and speak to Motion 2 on our

Paper with regard to the appointment of Mr. William Brown as the new

Sergeant-at-Arms.

I know he fully understands why we are all starting first in thanking Ms

Elizabeth Gallagher for the tremendous work that she did here in the House of

Assembly. Indeed, a friend to us all. As the Opposition House Leader has

mentioned, we all get to know each other pretty well. We all went through her

illness with her when Ms Gallagher was ill, and we are all so delighted she was

able to beat the cancer that she suffered and now is enjoying a healthy

retirement. We all have our stories, and she was just a delight to be here. She

had a knowledge of the history of this place that I do not know if anybody

around can equal. I am sure if Mr. Brown ever has a question, she would be there

to answer that question for him. I cannot help but think with Mr. Brown in

place, with some humour I say this, that his past experience as a keeper of the

peace and law and order might stand him in good stead, though I do hope he will

never have to use the Mace in the way it was in the very beginning meant to be

used, to physically protect the Speaker of the House from the House. Let's hope

it will only have to be laying it on the Table and taking it off the Table, Mr.

Speaker.

Certainly, Mr. Brown is not new to the kind of thing that happens in this

room. There is a lot of ceremony. There is a lot of protocol that happens. With

the background that he has, he certainly understands and values and honours what

it means to have protocol and what it means to behave in certain ways in certain

circumstances. I think he must probably be finding himself very comfortable, I

hope, here in the House with us. He certainly has shown himself to be that way

over the last six days that we have been here together.

I do welcome him, and I actually do have a little problem with my headset

today, so I will be seeing him after that and I am sure I will get the same

speedy service that the Opposition House Leader has received as well.

Welcome, Mr. Brown, and thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

Welcome to our new Sergeant-at-Arms.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, under the Orders of the Day, I call Motion

1, Committee of Supply.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that we now move to the Committee

of Supply and that I now leave the Chair.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded?

Carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on

Supply, Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Verge): Order, please!

We will resume debate in Committee of the Whole on Interim Supply.

I recognize the hon. the Member for Exploits.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak on the

Supply Bill.

Before I do, I probably understand that the Opposition House Leader is

probably somewhat disappointed and probably somewhat lonely this time around

sitting in the House because the seating arrangements have changed somewhat. I

guess she misses some of us from where we were last year. Just for her

information, in that she does represent Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, I am

planning a trip down there this year. I hope to go across on the Apollo,

travel down through Southern Labrador, down to Lake Melville, and up to Lab

West. I have been down there many a time and I cannot wait to get back to view

again the rock cuts in Lodge Bay always a nice piece of scenery when you are

driving Southern Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: Not in the wintertime.

MR. FORSEY: Not in the wintertime.

I remember going down there one time, I think it was around the last of June

or the first part of July, and I did not know if I was going to make it to Red

Bay or not. I made it to Red Bay, but then I had to make it down to

Charlottetown after that, because I had to get through the rock cuts.

Just the same, I will be traveling down there. Maybe I will see her along the

way.

Mr. Chair, I would like to follow the trend of some of my colleagues from the

past few days in expressing they have expressed their appreciation to the

people of their districts for electing them, and I would like to do the same

thing, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the people of the District of Exploits

for electing me for a third time

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Thank you and giving me the opportunity to represent them

in this wonderful House of Assembly again, Mr. Chair. It is certainly, indeed, a

privilege to do so.

AN HON. MEMBER : Three times lucky.

MR. FORSEY: Good support from the district, I say to the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

It is greatly appreciated.

Also, Mr. Chair, I would like to welcome all of the new members to the House

of Assembly. I think it was one of the members from the Opposition yesterday

talking about the backbenchers speaking. Let me say to the general public, Mr.

Chair, that last year it was difficult enough trying to get up to speak with

forty-odd members, forty-two, forty-three members. This year we have thirty-six,

thirty-seven counting the Speaker, so we have thirty-six members sitting over

here; so it is almost somewhat as difficult to get the opportunity to speak

again. However, we have done fairly well and it is nice to see a lot of our new

members getting up and speaking in the House and speaking on the Supply bill,

which is so important to the Province and so important to the Minister of

Finance to make sure that all of our commitments are met and that is why we are

here today.

Mr. Chair, last but not least, congratulations to our Premier for being the

first female elected as Premier of this great Province in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Mr. Chair, she was also the Minister of Natural Resources.

She played an instrumental role, I would say, in negotiating in the developing

process of Muskrat Falls.

Also mentioning Muskrat Falls, Mr. Chair, I would like to say as some of my

colleagues said yesterday I believe the Member for Port de Grave and I do

believe the Member for Mount Pearl South that they were supporting this

project, just let me say to the Opposition and the people across the way, I am

certainly supporting it as well. Let there be no doubt about the backbenchers

and what they are doing and what they are supporting. I can only speak for the

ones who have already spoken and I am sure that the rest will follow trend.

Mr. Chair, I would like to speak on some of the benefits of Muskrat Falls,

but before I do I would like to go back to a question or a statement that was

made by the Member for St. Barbe. I am talking about one of the members from the

caucus number two and not the caucus number one, because apparently it was

identified today they have two caucuses there. I am actually referring to a

statement made by the Member for St. Barbe when basically he said last week that

he referred to the expropriation of the Abitibi assets as somewhat of a blunder.

Just let me say, Mr. Chair, for the information of the Member for St. Barbe,

the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador supported that bill,

supported that expropriation. I can guarantee the member that the people in

Central Newfoundland supported the expropriation. This was what the people

wanted and not only that, but the members opposite also supported it because it

was unanimous when that bill was passed, Mr. Chair.

For the information of the Member for St. Barbe and in fairness he was not

here during the time of the Liberal reign prior to 2003, if you want to talk

about blunders, and there are many that came up in that particular fifteen years

I am sure; I could name a few, but I will just name one. It is to do with the

hydro generating station that was allowed to go ahead and be developed on Star

Lake, Mr. Chair. At that time, it was the Liberal Administration and they

allowed Abitibi and their stakeholders, their partners, to build this particular

generating station on Star Lake with zero benefits to the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador nothing, no return for the Province, go ahead and

build it, and walk away every year with $10 million to $12 million in your arse

pocket and bring it back to Quebec, send it back to Quebec again, like they

always did. If you want to talk about blunders, Mr. Chair, I would advise, for

the information of the Member for St. Barbe, there are many. If wants to go down

that road, I am sure we can be kept here all day doing so.

Mr. Chair, I have been involved and privy to a lot of, I do not know about a

lot but a number of detailed briefings, especially by Nalcor and other people on

Muskrat Falls, as I guess most of colleagues here and including the members

opposite. This particular project, which is already supported by Nalcor and

supported by well, actually the project is supported by Nalcor but there were

two questions there that we needed answered. Of course, we know what those two

questions were: Do we need the power? Is it the lowest cost option?

We have identified that fairly plainly. It is clear. It was clear to

Navigant, it was clear to Manitoba Hydro, and it was clear by Mr. Wade Locke. If

I am not mistaken, and somebody can correct me, but I think it was supported and

said that it was a good project by a potential Liberal Leader. Mr. MacDonald

said this was a good project, and the Consumer Advocate as well. There are lots

of knowledgeable people with the skills to identify this project as a good

project.

Also, Mr. Chair, with Muskrat Falls, we do need to identify the domestic

supply requirements. Muskrat Falls'surplus power will be available for domestic

use and export sales. The key to this project, Muskrat Falls, is that it will

stabilize the rates for customers. I think this is important, rather than

getting out there and speculating and trying to put fear in the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Chair.

I see my time is running out. I had some information for the Member for

Torngat Mountains but I will have to leave it for another day. Mr. Chair, I

would just like to say, here are another couple of reasons facts - that we

need to support Muskrat Falls. It will provide economic and environmental

benefits to the Province, it will provide a reliable service, and will provide

sufficient capacity for future industrial development in Labrador, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. FORSEY: Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Chairman, this being a money bill, I would like to talk

about financial matters and I would like to propose a legacy project for the

current government; not Muskrat Falls, because that is not their legacy project,

that is somebody else's legacy project.

The tragedy of Muskrat Falls one tragedy, politically, for this government,

is it really does not matter what they do. If they shoulder the heavy lifting

and go forward on a deal that somebody scribbled out on the back of a placemat

and called it a term sheet, and even if they pull it off, somebody else will say

that was my deal, you did not do it, you just finished it off. Meanwhile, if it

falls apart or has cost overruns, somebody else will say, I had the deal already

done and you could not follow through. So, I am going to suggest that this

government needs its own legacy project which I will get to and in three and

half year's time we will be happy to finish it off, and it will be much easier

for the members of the party opposite to find the time to speak.

Now, one of the glaring examples of the doubletalk that we see on Muskrat

options are proposed, and we are told one is the lowest option. In fact, it is

not the lowest option, it is the lower option. If it were good, better and best,

this would be the better option, if in fact it was good. If it were bad, worse

and worst - in fact, this would be maybe the worst option, but we do not know

that because we have only had two options examined.

The type of legacy project - in fact, the legacy project I would propose that

this government should embark upon was examined in the 2003 Blue Book. That

project was then costed out but never proceeded with. It is a transportation

option and it requires support of a good ferry service across the Strait of

Belle Isle to get started. Not a ferry service that alternates between Corner

Brook and St. Barbe, but a ferry service that says St. Barbe is the principle

place and that Port Saunders is the alternate. Port Saunders is only

approximately four hours to sail in a ferry

whereas Corner Brook is twelve hours

to sail, and then we run into the difficulties in service that we have seen in

the past week or so.

The Province of Quebec is going at pretty much full speed building Route 138

up the Quebec North Shore from Quebec City and will link up the Quebec North

Shore. There is little doubt that project will be finished in the next three,

four or five years. That means that people on the South Coast of Labrador, or in

fact, anywhere in Labrador, now can drive to Quebec and drive to Ontario.

However, without a proper ferry service or without a fixed-link across the

Strait of Belle Isle, the Province will still be surrounded by water. It is

celebrated in song that may be a nice thing, but not a very practical thing.

I would propose that this government talk to their colleagues in the Province

of Quebec and talk to their federal friends who have already agreed to give them

a loan guarantee for Muskrat Falls, and look at the possibility of beginning to

work on a fixed-link across the Strait of Belle Isle from somewhere in the St.

Barbe or Flowers Cove area to somewhere in Blanc Sablon. Given that the Province

of Quebec would benefit at least as much and is a sub-national government, as is

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, something that the current

government seemed to overlook when they subjected this nation to a NAFTA

challenge when they expeditiously expropriated but ineffectively expropriated

had to pay for the fine for doing that under the NAFTA challenge. If this

government were to team up with the Province of Quebec and also with the federal

government, then this government could have its own legacy project, and that

legacy project could be, and in my view should be a fixed-link across the Strait

of Belle Isle. This government is already familiar with the Strait of Belle Isle

because the proposal is to ship power by way of a subsea line across the Strait.

Why not go with a fixed link? The proposal that was subsequent to the 2003 Blue

Book said for one tunnel with electric trains, that approximate cost and I may

well be inaccurate, but I think that I am correct of not much more than $1.5

billion, which apparently seems to be chump change nowadays around here, as that

is approximately the amount of the first mistake in the estimates for Muskrat

Falls, somewhere over $1 billion when the interest got rolled in.

The Trans-Labrador Highway is now part of the national highway system, so why

wouldn't the federal government also want to contribute to a subsea link of our

Province to its mainland counterpart, being Labrador. If the federal government

were to fund it at, say, 50 per cent, and the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador were to fund it by 25 per cent, and the Province of Quebec were to fund

it by 25 per cent, the project would cost relatively small dollars to the

economy of the people of this Province.

That subsea link would then be a fabulous boon for tourism. Instead of being

a disadvantage for Port aux Basques, in fact, it would be an advantage for Port

aux Basques. Instead of people coming from the eastern seaboard and coming as

far as Halifax, or maybe even Sydney, and then turning back wondering if they

come to the Island when will they get back, in fact it would be a significant

bonus for people who be a significant advantage for tourism, because then

there would be a circular route available so that people could drive up the

Quebec North Shore, they could cross to the Northern Peninsula area, they could

drive back down to the South Coast, and leave again by way of Port aux Basques.

I would encourage any members of this House to examine the link that the

United States has created across Chesapeake Bay approximately twenty-three

miles, and in kilometres that would be forty that involves a causeway and two

subsea tunnels. The U.S. navy sails over both of the tunnels.

There is a significant legacy project that this government can embark on, and

if they manage to pull off the Muskrat Falls on time and on budget as Nalcor

says and let me be perfectly clear, everybody wants Muskrat Falls to work if

it is going to go ahead. There should be no doubt about that. If it does not

work then there will be significant financial repercussions for people in this

Province who live off fixed incomes. I think it is easy and open for any of us

to read the Nalcor materials and there is no doubt that whatever the speaking

points are and whatever is the official position, there will be a dramatic and

radical increase in the cost of electricity in this Province when Muskrat Falls

comes online, if it is on time and if it is on budget. If it is neither on time

nor on budget it will cost even more, and I accept that many years down the

road, Muskrat Falls will look like likely a great thing. Will any of us be

alive, fifty years, sixty years who knows?

In 1967, I vividly remember watching the debates on the Come by Chance oil

refinery, and two members at that time opposed the existing government and said

how terrible it was. I think it was the Member for Humber East and the Member

for St. John's West, one of whom went on to become Premier and one of whom went

on to become Chief Justice of the Province, one who is Lieutenant-Governor right

now. Come by Chance was opposed vehemently for many reasons. Come by Chance

ultimately failed and then was rescued. Most people would say now that it is a

success; however, it is more than forty years later and in the case of Come by

Chance, the small consumers and the people on fixed income and small businesses

were not sacrificed. It is clear with Nalcor's presentation that even if Nalcor

is correct, and even if it is successful, and even if it is on time, there will

be a punishing price to pay for the small consumers and the small businesses of

this Province.

I would encourage the government to begin the next legacy project, being the

fixed link, so that when Muskrat is finished, regardless of the outcome, the

financial ability will be here and the trades people will be here and there will

be some measure of expertise which we do not currently have; Nalcor has no

expertise for a project like this, but given their new-found expertise, that

they could do the fixed link across the Strait of Bell Isle.

Thank you.

CHAIR: The Chair recognizes the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I take this opportunity to speak for a couple of minutes about Muskrat Falls,

especially to address a couple of issues raised by the member opposite. I would

encourage the member opposite and members opposite to read the materials that

are out there and not to simply promulgate these theories based on non-facts. I

say to the member opposite, read the materials. Read the materials.

Now, Mr. Chair, let us look at the first fallacy that he put out there today,

that rates are going to go up exponentially with Muskrat Falls. Again, I will

try to break this down very simply, Mr. Chair. In terms of our analysis, we

broke it into three profiles. We know there are 230,000 ratepayers in the

Province. We broke the first one down into ratepayer 1, or profile 1, a customer

who does not use electric heat as the primary source. In other words, they use

electricity. They burn, on average, 775 kilowatt hours per month, and there are

90,000 of them. Mr. Chair, profile 2 is the customer who uses electric heat as

the primary source. In other words, Mr. Chair, they use electric heat and

electricity. They burn, on average, 2058 kilowatt hours per month, and there are

140,000 customers. Then, to try to explain to the average person, Mr. Chair,

what we are looking at here, we looked at profile 3, the average of all Island

customers, being 230,000 customers, they burn, on average, 1517 kilowatt hours

per month.

Mr. Chair, we sat down then with the projections based on what we know now.

There was extensive effort of a couple of months looking at growth. We know, for

example, that 86 per cent of new homes are using electric heat today. We know,

Mr. Chair, that are more households and there are 15,000 more ratepayers,

despite the fact that our population has not increased that much.

So then we looked at, Mr. Chair, what is going to happen with and without

Muskrat Falls. I have used the average Island customer simply because it is the

easiest way to try to explain it. We also know that Labrador has the lowest

electricity rates in Canada right now,

whereas the Island of Newfoundland is the

fourth lowest in the country. So, Mr. Chair, what we are looking at

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Chair, I said electricity rates.

What we are looking, Mr. Chair, let us look at the average of all Island

customers. That customer, in 2000, spent $135 on electricity. That went up by 43

per cent in 2011 to $193 brought in the rebate, $179. So it went up $58 or 43

per cent. Now, what happens, Mr. Chair, between 2011 and 2016 is that rates will

go up again $38, but this has nothing to do with Muskrat Falls, this has to with

the reliance on oil. The members opposite and critics of the project have said,

well, Holyrood is not being used at its full capacity nor is it being used,

Mr. Chair, at its full capacity at present. It is used at 15 per cent to 25 per

cent. We have, approximately, capacity in this Province of 2,000 megawatts with

approximately 488 at Holyrood. What has happened, as a result of the mills

closing down, there was extra power available which has been integrated into the

grid, and that power has been now used up.

As we move forward, Mr. Chair, and the need for power increases as

indicated by Nalcor and accepted by Manitoba Hydro International what will

happen is that we will need Holyrood used more 18,000 barrels of oil burnt a

day, Mr. Chair, the price of oil is going up. The Minister of Finance and I have

met separately with oil forecasting companies. We know the price of oil is going

up based on the expert advice given to us because of the volatile situation in

the Middle East. It is a question of supply and demand, Mr. Chair, that we do

not have enough supply to meet the world's demand. Currently 90 million barrels

of oil are burned per day, Mr. Chair, with 20 million in the United States, 10

million in China. China continues to grow at 5 per cent; it will outpace the

United States in a number of years as being the biggest oil consuming country in

the world.

We also, Mr

Document details

CollectionNewfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
Citation2012-03-13
Typehansard
Volume / chapter2012-03-13
Languageen
Formathtm
SourcePROVINCIAL
Identifiera1e3ccde8462582c1369d27315e59fe4fce68c1a

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