ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31-32 Elizabeth II Published under the euthority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. 175 - 10:00 a.m., FRIDAY, 3 FEBRUARY, 1984. Printed by the Office of the Quee ns Prmter. Provinct1 ot Manilobll

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name ADAM, Hon. A.R. (Pete) ANSTETT, Hon. Andy ASHTON, Steve BANMAN, Robert (Bob) BLAKE, David R. (Dave) BROWN, Arnold BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. CORRIN, Q.C., Brian COWAN, Hon. Jay DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent DODICK, Doreen DOERN, Russell DOLIN, Hon. Mary Beth DOWNEY, James E. DRIEDGER, Albert ENNS, Harry EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. EYLER, Phil FILMON, Gary FOX, Peter GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) GRAHAM, Harry HAMMOND, Gerrie HARAPIAK, Harry M. HARPER, Elijah HEMPHILL, Hon.

Maureen HYDE, Lloyd JOHNSTON, J. Frank KOSTYRA,Hon. Eugene KOVNATS, Abe LECUYER, Hon. Gerard LYON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. Al MALINOWSKI, Donald M. MANNESS, Clayton McKENZIE, J. Wally MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) OLESON, Charlotte ORCHARD, Donald PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland PHIL.LIPS, Myrna A. PLOHMAN, Hon. John RANSOM, A. Brian SANTOS, Conrad SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic SCOTT, Don SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) SMITH, Hon. Muriel STEEN, Warren STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. URUSKI, Hon. Bill USKIW, Hon. Samuel WALDING, Hon. D. James Constituency Ste.

Rose Springfield Thompson La Verendrye Minnedosa Rhineland Gimli Brandon West Ellice Churchill St. Boniface Riel Elm wood Kildonan Arthur Emerson Lakeside Brandon East River East Tuxedo Concordia Swan River Virden Kirkfield Park The Pas Rupertsland Logan Portage la Prairie Sturgeon Creek Seven Oaks Niakwa Radisson Charleswood St. James St. Johns Morris Roblin-Russell St. Norbert Assiniboia Gladstone Pembina Selkirk Transcona Fort Rouge Wolseley Dauphin Turtle Mountain Burrows Rossmere lnkster Fort Garry Osborne River Heights Flin Flon Interlake Lac du Bonnet St.

Vital Party NOP NOP NDP PC PC PC NOP INO NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP PC NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP NOP PC PC NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP PC PC PC PC PC PC NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC NOP NOP NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP NOP NOP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, 3 February, 1984. Time - 10:00 a.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions . . . Presenting Reports By Standing and Special Committees . Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports . Notices of Motion . . . Introduction of Bills . ORAL QUESTIONS Constitutional resolution MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FILMON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Acting Premier.

In view of the rather large rally of around 2,500 people last evening that was organized by the Grassroots people, a rally that I understand was attended by special or executive assistimts both to the Premier and the Government House Leader, will the government now reconsider the inappropriate action that it is taking in proceeding by closure with the French language resolution, the constitutional amendment that will affect Manitobans for all time in future, will it reconsider its actions in view of the rather large display of public opinion last evening? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON.

L DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, the government intends to keep on in a responsible manner the way it has done. The situation here is very clear. We feel that we have been coming a long way to bring in something that would be acceptable to Manitobans. The opposition chose to boycott that at every chance that they've had. They've challenged us to call the motion, to call closure. It has been done individually and collectively. Mr. Speaker, it is quite clear, and members have threatened to ring the bells until the government changes their minds, that is not democracy.

Democracy is that the government - it is much more than the French issue at this time, Mr. Speaker, it is the issue of keeping a democracy and having a duly elected representative to bring in legislation and then they would have to answer to the public at the next election, not to a minority that could paralyze the House. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, I would remind the Acting Premier that it was his government that put into the agreement that was signed . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Does the Honourable Leader of the Opposition have a question? MR. G. FILMON: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that it was this Acting Leader's government that put the reference to bell ringing in the agreement that was signed last summer; in view of the fact that it is this government that is imposing closure on the debate in this; in view of the fact that this party has said over and over again in speeches, both the member who spoke, the Premier, other members of Cabinet, that consensus is important in this issue; and in view of the fact that in last evening's meeting we had two former leaders of the Liberal Party, one former Liberal Premi er, one former Conservative Premier, the leader of the Progressive Party and people of all parties there, will this government that says it believes that consensus is the right way to go on this, will this party change its mind, withdraw the closure motion and allow debate to take place in the normal manner?

HON. l. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, we would love to have this House conducted in the normal manner , the manner that it should be in a democracy. There is nothing that we would like better than that. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has talked about former leaders and so on; these are individuals. There is what? - 999 or 1,000 people that weren't there, and there are other phone calls also that tell us that the people are fed up with this kind of thing. The people are fed up.

When the former leader who, by the way, is still the leader - it's obvious - when the former leader is threatening that they will keep on ringing the bells forever until we capitulate, I think it is obvious that the minority here wants to paralyze the business of the House and we are not going to go for that. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that this side of the House was debating the constitutional resolution and amendments thereto, and their Premier filibustered for over an hour on Wednesday on this particular issue. - (Interjection) - That's right.

Never once did he mention any of the amendments or the resolution, talked about philosophy, nothing more . MR. SPEAKER: Question. MR. G. FILMON: . . . talked about that and nothing more for over an hour, Mr. Speaker. In view of the fact that this side was debating and was speaking to the amendments and the resolution, will he not order his Government House Leader to withdraw the gun at our heads, withdraw the closure motion and allow debate to take place? HON. L DESJARDINS: If there is a gun at your head, you put it there.

I would like to remind my honourable friend also that Sid Spivak is also a former leader of the party and I think it might be that Sid Spivak doesn't agree with what we're doing, but he certainly doesn't agree with what you're doing either. He feels that the public, in the next general election, if they're dissatified with us and they find that they were arrogant and so on, well, then change the system. Change the system, 5854

Friday, 3 February, 1984 then any time you don't want something you can block it; you can take your bat and ball and go home, and that's exactly what you're doing. There has to be order in this Chamber and if there's order in the Chamb er, fine, but there is no order at all in the least little thing you can come up with. Can you see the scenario? If any time you don't want anything, you ring the bells and say you backed down; and I would hope that soon the Speaker will make sure that this doesn't go on the way it is going on. - (Interjection) MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please.

I do hope the Honourable Minister of Health was not intending to reflect on the Chair with that last remark. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Withdraw . Withdraw. HON. L. DESJARDINS: I certainly don't intend to withdraw hoping, because if there's hope there's still a chance and I certainly hope that things will be brought to order fairly soon. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, despite the threatening remarks of the Acting Premier . MR. SPEAKER: Question. MR. G. FILMON: My question for the Acting Premi er, Mr. Speaker, in view of his suggestions that .

SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, in view of the Acting Premier's suggestions that a future government can handle or deal with this in its own way, is he seriously suggesting that ari entrenched constitutional amendment can be changed by a majority government just on its own, any time in future after this? A MEMBER: That's your understanding of it, eh? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. ·L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I don't need the Leader of the Opposition to put words in my mouth.

I said that we were duly elected an.'.l that we could be replaced by the general public. - (Interjection) - It might be, it might be. It might be that we'll be replaced, but it won't be just by the action of the members in the opposition. We have a democracy here and the duty of all the members of this House is to say that this is progress. If they like it or not, they could protest. They should protest it if they don't like someone.

I can remember when there was a change in the Constitution where the former leader, who probably is still the leader, did not even come to the House at all, and he called the committee when it was all over, when 5855 he had these pamphlets printed and everything. - (Interjection) - Well, at least Trudeau is respected in the democracy and that's more than you're doing. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HON. L. DESJARDINS: Your leader couldn't hold on for more than three months and he had it and he let it go. By the way, maybe we should ask your present leader federally what he thinks of what you're doing. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speak er, I want to ask the Government House Leader, will he not put up at least several speakers to this important resolution that's before us that attempts to take issue or respond to some of the specific and the only arguments and the concerns that have been put forward by the opposition, concerns about the number of other pieces of legislation that are involved, some of the concerns that are expressed by the President of the Manitoba Government Employees Association, none of which have been addressed by any other government speakers?

Now will he withdraw closure and let us debate seriously this most important subject matter before this House? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker , I'm sure the Honourable Member for Lakeside, the Opposition House Leader, is aware that there have been in excess of 100 speeches on this issue and this subject matter in the last eight months. Mr. Speaker, by the Leader of the Opposition's own claim, there have been over 30 speeches in the last month on the resolution and on the bill. Mr.

Speaker, if members opposite decide today they want to debate the resolution and bring this matter to a conclusion after eight months, they'll have over 15 hours to do that today - they'll have over 15 hours to do that. Any suggestion that members on this side have not responded to the few statements which have been made on the other side addressing either the principles of the resolution or the bill or any detailed comments are without foundation, absolutely. Mr.

Speaker, for example, the resolution moved by the Honourable Member for Fort Garry last week was addressed in very specific terms in all respects by the Attorney-General immediately after. - (Interjections) MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. A. ANSTETT: If the Leader of the Opposition can control his colleagues, I'll finish answering his question. - (Interjection) - MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, there's absolutely no question that the government has and will continue to respond to reasonable debate and reasonable

criticism, but any suggestion from the opposition that they are somehow the government and have the right to dictate the terms of legislation in this Chamber must be repudiated, Sir, as has been repudiated for the last eight months. We will continue to do so. We have a mandate and we intend to implement that mandate and to answer to the people of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, the real problem with members opposite is they still don't respect the results of the last election. That's their problem. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr.

Speaker, for those opposite who suggest that this government does not have a mandate, I remind them that the obligation was on them at the time of the last election to address this issue. Leave was granted to Mr. Bilodeau to appeal to the Supreme Court on November 16, 1981. Who over there told the people of Manitoba that that was happening? MR. H. ENNS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. HON. A. ANSTETT: I'm finished. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: Mr.

Speaker, the question put to the Honourable Government House Leader was whether or not he would allow members of his side of the House to debate the resolution. I didn't ask him to break the rules of the House. I did not ask him to start breaking the rules of the House and debate on question period. - (Interjection) -· MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: A further question, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to believe, and I believe that the Minister now charged with the responsibility of bringing this resolution before us honestly believes, as one would like to think most Ministers believe when they bring something into this Chamber, that what he is proposing and is before us today is better than what was initially presented last June, indeed, better than proposed amendments to that proposition last September. Can the government Minister tell me that he believes that this is a considerably better package today than was placed before this House last June? MR. SPEAKER: Order please.

The question to the Treasury Bench should seek information and not ask for the opinion of a Minister. Perhaps the honourable member would wish to rephrase his question? The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, the Minister has at least indicated to us in introducing this new package to us that it was a better, more acceptable package. My question to the Honourable Minister is this: that that only came about because of the determined efforts on 1984 the part of this opposition last June, July, and August, and throughout September.

Give us another couple of weeks, another month if need be, and we'll make it into an acceptable package for Manitoba. Is that not a fair question? MR. SPEAKER: Perhaps the Honourable Government House Leader could discern a question in there. HON. A. ANSTETT: Well, Mr. Speaker, I wasn't sure whether I should move that debate be adjourned or try to find a question in the speech of the honourable member. Mr. Speaker (Interjection) - Nicholl Report MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Morris. MR. C. MANNESS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to pose a question to the Minister of Education.

I'm wondering if the Minister could indicate the timetable, in effect, for the implementation of any or all of the recommendations offered in the Nicholl Report. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. 1111. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I think I indicated very clearly when I released the report that the report was being released, would be sent to all interested parties, and that a reasonable amount of time would be allowed for them to respond to the government on the Nicholl Report.

In the meantime, we were taking the information that was in the Nicholl Report and the recommendation and applying them to the way that we allocated money this year. So what we did was we used an excellent report with excellent information to help us make very difficult decisions about where the greatest needs were and where the money should go, and the report is out there and we will have public hearings if requested, and people will have an adequate time to respond to a very complex, very important issue to Manitobans. MR. C. MANNESS: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd ask the Minister a supplementary.

How is the reaction in the further input of groups like the Association of School Trustees and others groups? How is that to be heard? Would the Minister be hearing that in private or will that be available to be heard publicly? HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I believe all the information that went out about a month ago when the report was released, was released publicly, including the information that I gave on how we were handling the report.

I understand that the Member for Morris called and asked for a copy of the report yesterday, although we had hand-delivered to their caucus a report for every member of the caucus, over a month ago. So it's clear that he hasn't read the information that was publicly made available at the time the report was released. What I said in a letter that went to all the school divisions, to the school trustees, to the teachers' association, is that there would be a period of two to 5856

Friday, 3 February, 1984 three months where they could respond to the Nicholl Report. I expect that many of the organizations are going to respond in written briefs because the subject is very very complicated. However I'm not quite finished - every individual who made presentation to the Nicholl Report, whether they were an organization or an individual person who was concerned, got a

summary of the report and got the same letter saying we would like to hear from you and any reaction you would like to give we would like to hear. They have been asked to tell us if they would like to have a public hearing. In other words, the responses will come in in the way that they wish to give them. Most of them will be in written presentation because the organizations have indicated that is the way they wish to respond to the brief. However, if there is enough interest from members of the public or others to have public hearings, we will have them. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. C.

MANNESS: I thank the Minister for the lull explanation. Maybe she might check with her staff again and they might tell her that I requested a report of the new health curriculum, not the Nicholl Report, which I've had for some period of time, so she may want to straighten that out with her staff. They're certainly two different reports, as most people are aware. MR. SPEAKER: Question. MR. C. MANNESS: Mr.

Speaker, I would ask the Minister whether all trustees within the province were given a copy of the Nicholl Report, so as they may have an opportunity to peruse it and to also bring forward their own comments specifically to certain sections that may be of interest to them? HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr.

Speaker, all the organizations and every board in the province got a copy of the brief, as did every individual or organization - the 150 of them, I believe, that made representation to the committee - and we have also made it clear that any other individual interested party, whether they be a school trustee or not, that is interested in having a copy of the report or a

summary of the report, which is a little easier to manage, is welcome to it. Educational Support Program MR. C. MANNESS: A final question, Mr. Speaker. would ·ask the Minister if we can expect new legislation regarding education financing in the next Session? HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I wish we could get to the next Session of the Legislature so we could get on with the business of the House.

However, what I indicated also in the statement that was a public statement is, that whatever legislation was that was required to maintain the Educational Support Program, which is what we are doing for another year - although we've done our best to correct its major deficiencies - whatever legislation is required to maintain it, will be brought in in the next Session of the Legislature. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for E!mwood. MR. R. DOERN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the House Leader and Member for Springfield.

Can he confirm that there is another delegation here this morning of some 25 or 30 constituents who are again demanding his resignation? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. That question is out of order. Seat belt legislation MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for The Pas. MR. H. HARAPIAK: Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Highways. Recently there have been concerns raised about possible legal liabilities of physicians who have issued medical certificates for seat belts. Could the Minister of Highways clarify the situation for the House and for the people of this province? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways. HON. J. PLOHMAN: Mr. Speaker, I'll keep it brief - something I can't say about the questions put by the opposition. I would like to clarify that and I thank the member for that question.

It is true that there has been media reports and also many inquiries to my office with regard to the legal liability of a physician who has issued a certificate; and I want to inform the House that any physician who is issuing a medical exemption in good faith is exempt from any liability by virtue of Subsection 295(6) of The Highway Traffic Act; and that section, very briefly - I wouldn't read the whole part - but it says, "that no person acting under the authority of this act or the regulations is personally liable for any loss or damage suffered by any person or reason of anything in good faith done or admitted to be done by him pursuant or in the exercise or supposed exercise of the powers of this act." So what that says, Mr.

Speaker, for the honourable member, is that there would not be a liability if any decision made by a physician is done in good faith, as I expect that it always would be, and I'm issuing a news release to that effect and I have informed the Manitoba Medical Association of that as well. Government policy - farmers' income MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur. llllR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture.

For some time now there h,�G been considerable concern brought to the House of Commons' attention by the Progressive Conservative Party of the problems that the Federal Income Tax Branch have been causing Canadians. As well, there is a movement by the farm community of British Columbia currently making representation on behalf of the farmers to change regulations that would not classify a part-time farmer, or a farmer who is earning off-farm income, to treat them other than farm income and disallowing them to write off farm expenses. 5857

Friday, 3 February, 1984 Will he, as Minister of Agriculture, be making representation to the Federal Government to allow people who have been forced to earn income off the farm to continue to file under a normal income tax form and not be affected by a Federal Government which has very little concern for the average person, let alone people who are trying to make a living in this country? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. IJRUSKI: Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the honourable memb er, and I believe the media o!

Manitoba did carry some of my submissions that I made months ago to the Federal Government dealing precisely with this matter and making reference on one in July at the Ministers' Conference in Prince Edward Island. This matter was raised by ourselves and the Province of Ontario to work towards some better understanding and a better system of handling farmers who have been forced to take off-farm jobs during these types of periods of low income. As well, Mr. Speaker, there's been a recent court case as a result of a challenge to the Revenue Canada.

We supported that decision and we made representations, both to the Minister of Finance and the Minister of National Revenue, dealing with this particular question. We believe that farmers who have had to take off-farm work to keep their operation viable should have their normal farming expenses deducted in the normal course. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur. MR. J. DOWNEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, again the Minister of Agriculture - I know he has made reference to comments he has made through media and that type of thing.

Will he make sure or double check with the Federal Government so that he can, or have the Federal Government make a statement, so as everyone knows precisely what the policy is and that there isn't any question as to the filing of income tax as a farmer if they make off-farm income, Mr. Speaker? I would like a very clear and decisive answer because I think that is the kind of answer the farm community of Manitoba is expecting. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, clearly and decisively, the Province of Manitoba supports the deduction of on-farm expenses by whoever is in the farming industry. Mr.

Speaker, the honourable member, maybe he didn't hear my answer. We have made representations, we have sent letters and we have sent telexes supporting the court decision several months ago that occurred in a challenge to The National Revenue Act. We made representations last July to the Ministers' Conference in Prince Edward Island on this very matte r, Sir, and we will continue to support the farmers of Manitoba as we would support any business in terms of the allowable deductions in their enterprise and we continue to stand behind them. Metric conversion - publications MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. MR. D. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is also to the Minister of Agriculture, and I am well aware of the previous policy of the Department of Agriculture in their publications with regard to metric and imperial measurement, so I don't need a lecture from the Minister again on that.

Will he ensure, in view of the confusion that exists in the rural community on metric and imperial measures with regard to chemicals and other farm products, for the farmers of Manitoba that the publications put out by his department will be put out in imperial and metric measurements simultaneously so that they can avoid some confusion that is arising in the farm community now as a result of the publications by his department? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, if there is any confusion, it will be the honourable members of the Conservative Party who will want to make that confusion continue. The Honourable Member for Minnedosa maybe doesn't realize that the entire chemical industry has shifted totally to metric. If we were to make 0 MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, I am advised by the department that every container of herbicides and pesticides is in metric. Mr. Speaker, if we were to . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. B. URUSKi: Mr.

Speaker, if the honourable members don't want to acknowledge that they were moving along in terms of the progression of information, the Department of Agriculture has moved along with the industry when the industry moved totally to metric. Mr. Speake r, we would have only continued the confusion had we gone to both methods. The conversion staff will assist !armers in making the conversion on their units while the containers are now in totally metric . We are only following the progression that was there when they were in office, Mr. Speaker. MR. D. BLAKE: Mr.

Speaker, I directed a question to the Minister and specifically asked him, or suggested to him, and I didn't need a lecture on former policy or what is happening in the chemical industry. We are well aware on this side, and those who represent rural community concerns of what is happening with metric measurement in the rural community, and there is a great deal of confusion. I am asking the Minister: will he ensure the farm community that these publications will be put out in both imperial and metric measurements to clear up some of the confusion?

Because we know that some of stores in this country now are going back to imperial measure as well as metric, so the country is not going completely metric. It would be of great benefit to the farm community if these publications were put out in imperial and metric measurements to help some of the older farmers that maybe are not as up on metric as maybe some of the younger ones are. The young ones are confused also. 5858

HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, see, the honourable member doesn't want to accept that it was their administration that continued to follow the course of the industry in metric conversion - the highway signs, all the other signs. Now that there is a new administration in government, now they want us, while we are in government, to all of a sudden stop it because they are no longer in government we can point the finger at someone else. Mr. Speaker, it doesn't wash. The fact of the matter is the entire chemical industry has shifted to metric and, Mr.

Speaker, it would only add to the confusion if we in government, in fact, would perpetuate that confusion. MR. D. BLAKE: I am trying to get a commitment out of the Minister, Mr. Speaker. Until 1983 the publications were published in imperial and metric; in 1984 it's metric only. Now that has to be a policy of the government. I am asking the Minister: will he ensure the farmers that these publications will be published in both metric and imperial measurements? That is all I am asking him; I don't need a lecture on what's happening and what we did and what is going to happen in the future.

I would like him to tell the farmers if he is going to publish these booklets in imperial and metric measurements to help them understand what is going on. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, if we were not to follow the industry in terms of the entire metric shift . SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, it's obvious tha! the members opposite want to continue the confusion in terms of the change-over. They were prepared to allow the movement of the industry in the province into the metric conversion in agricultural chemicals . The industry has totally moved to that area.

They still want to say, let's go back to the era, Mr. Speaker, to that era of before. Mr. Speaker, I know that there has been confusion, but to do what the honourable member is suggesting, when there isn't one container of chemicals that will be purchased in the imperial measure today. The staff will assist farmers in helping them make the conversion on their equipment. It is much easier, Mr. Speaker, to make that conversion on the equipment because they will have to purchase their chemicals, all of them, in metric measure. While I am on my feet, Mr.

Speaker, I wish to answer a question that was posed by the Honourable Member for Arthur the other day about the Manitoba market's weekly report, Sir. I wish to advise the honourable member that the information - as I did in my answer and I wanted to check that - that is contained in the market reports is of course available from a number of sources, but albeit it wasn't in a more convenient form. We, in terms of trying to cut down on costs of government, feel that the information is available from other sources and we have discontinued this publication. Unemployment in Manitoba MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for River East. 5859 1984 MR. P. EYLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Labour. In view of the fact that the radio was full of reports today that unemployment in Canada, as a whole, has risen, I wonder if the Minister of Labour can inform this House what the status of unemployment was in Manitoba last month. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. HON. M.B. DOLIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to answer that question on behalf of my colleague, the Minister of Employment Services. The unemployment rate in Manitoba is down. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, it has declined . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. M.B. DOLIN: . . . two-tenths of a percentage point - (Interjection) - MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Ti1e Honourable Minister of Labour. HON. M.B. DOLIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I dislike having to shout over the raucous noises from across. In comparing the unemployment rate to a year ago where we really can see what the difference is, Mr. Speaker, that's where we see that the unemployment rate has dropped.

The seasonally adjusted rate in January when it's a difficult time during the year to find jobs, the unemployment rate has dropped to 8.4 percent from 9.9 percent last year, Mr. Speaker. In the meantime, we have had to deal with an increased population, which we are happy to deal with. We like Manitobans coming home, we like people choosing Manitoba to live and to work in, and Manitoba's labour force has grown by 9,000 to 502,000 in the labour force, 502,000 now. In that time, Mr. Speaker, employment has risen 16,000 . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. M.B. DOLIN: . .. 16,000 over last year at the same time. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, I simply want to indicate to the government that we would certainly be prepared to grant leave to go back to or revert back to Ministerial Statements, so that our chief critic on Labour matters could respond to this Ministerial Statement. It's entirely the practice and tradition of this House to make that kind of a statement, but the time to do it is on Ministerial Statements. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader to the same point. HON. A. ANSTETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Both the previous government and the present government have responded to the monthly release of unemployment

Friday, 3 February, 1984 statistics, both in response to questions and by Ministerial Statements. It has been regularly done both ways. For the member to suggest that he doesn't want questions to be asked which elicit long answers. (Interjection) - MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. A. ANSTETT: I would remind the member, he was the one who engaged in debate in this question period, Sir, less than half-an-hour ago. I think the question is entirely in order and appropriate. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Has the Honourable Minister of Labour finished her reply? HON. 1111.B. DOLIN: Mr.

Speaker, I wish to make a statement to the same point of order. As the Minister of Employment Services over the past year or so, almost entirely my responses were given in response to questions from the Member for St. Norbert, who was the critic at that time and used to question me about the labour statitistics. I gave the same kind of answer I've given in the past. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert to the same point. MR. G. MERCIER: Oh, no. I have a question, Mr. Speaker. Unemployment in Manitoba MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. MERCIER: Mr.

Speaker, following along the question from the Member for River East, could the Minister confirm that in spite of the signed promises by the First Minister in the !all of 1981 that the NDP were going to get the economy moving again that in January of 1984 there are, in actual numbers, 47,000 unemployed people in Manitoba, over 20,000 more than were unemployed in Manitoba in the fall of 1981? HON. 1111.B. DOLIN: Mr. Speaker, we have never said that the job was done, we have never hinted that the job was done. There are many people out there who need jobs and who should be put to work. We are working on that.

We feel that we have made some inroads into that huge problem. - (Interjection) MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. M.B. DOLIN: . . . We will continue to work throughout our term in office to put the jobless to work. Tabling of Contract - Mr. David Sanders MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Member for Kirkfield Park. MRS. G. HAMMOND: My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Urban Affairs. The Minister undertook one week ago to table the contract of former Deputy Minister, Mr. David Sanders, with the Government of Manitoba. Would the Minister table Mr. Sander's contract today? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. HON. M.B. DOLIN: Mr. Speaker, I would if I had it with me, but I don't have it with me today. Metric conversion - publications MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Wolseley. MS. M. PHILLIPS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Can the Minister assure me that his department, both verbally and in printed pamphlets, will deal with farmers and citizens of rural communities with the same recognition and confidence, that they are as intelligent and capable of dealing with metric conversion as our citizens in urban communities?

SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, I am certain that the farm communit y, while difficult for many of them in dealing with this matter, are able to cope with the conversion. What I said to the Honourable Member for Minnedosa and I say to the Honourable Member for Wolseley, that it makes little sense to have a dual measurement when all the conversions and all the containers are in metric when the entire industry has moved to metric.

I have indicated as well that the staff will assist farmers in making the conversion on their equipment, Mr. Speaker, and we have moved basically along the line where the former government has moved, although they would want to leave the impression in the minds of Manitobans that they don't support the conversion to metric. They were doing it when they were in office, Mr. Speaker, and now they decry these changes. Mr. Speaker, that is very very sneaky of the honourable members opposite. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The time for Oral Questions has expired.

ORDERS Of THE DAY ADJOURNED DEBATE ON RESOLUTION CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND SUB-AMENDMENT RE: OFFICIAL LANGUAGES MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Health, that <;lebate on the motion of the Honourable Attorney­ General respecting the proposed amendment to The 5860

Friday, 3 February, 1984 Manitoba Act concerning

Section 23 thereof, and on any amendments proposed thereto shall not be further adjourned. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Shame, shame! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. It is moved by the Honourable Government House Leader and seconded by the Honourable Minister of Health that the debate on the motion of the Honourable Attorney-General respecting the proposed amendment to The Manitoba Act concerning

Section 23 thereof and on any amendments proposed thereto shall not be further adjourned. Those in favor, please say Aye. Those opposed, please say Nay. In my oppinion the ayes have it and I declare the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker. 5861 MR. SPEAKER: Call in the members. Order please. I have been advised by the Official Opposition Whip that the opposition will not return before 2:00 p.m. on Monday. In view of this advice, I have informed Chamber staff that they will not be required to remain on duty outside normal working hours.

I've made arrangements to secure the Chamber and the sounding of the bells will be minimized to the greatest extent possible. I'm accordingly leaving the Chair to return at 1:30 today in order to adjourn the House. (And the Division Bells having stopped ringing at 1:30 p.m.) MR. SPEAKER: The time of adjournment having arrived, this House is adjourned and will stand adjourned until 2:00 p.m. on Monday.