Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 12 May 1997 (43rd General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLIII No. 23)
1997-05-12
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 12,
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLIII No. 23
The House met at 2:00 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
On Thursday last, the hon. member for Waterford Valley rose
on a point of order concerning a comment made by the hon. Minister of Education
in response to a question from the member for St. John's East. In reply to the
question, the hon. minister said: "That is an absolute fabrication by the member
opposite."
I refer hon. members to page 151 of Beauchesne,
Section 494,
in which it states: "It has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by
members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must
be accepted. It is not unparliamentary temperately to criticize statements made
by members as being contrary to the facts, but no imputation of intentional
falsehood is permissible. On rare occasions this may result in the House having
to accept two contradictory accounts of the same incident."
Clearly the hon. member was out of order and I ask him to
withdraw his remarks.
The hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I most certainly withdraw the remarks.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Over the weekend, the Social Policy Committee of Cabinet and
two members of the House of Assembly, representing the districts of Burgeo and
LaPoile and the district of Virginia Waters, heard from health care providers,
consumers and administrators from across the Province during the provincial
health forum.
Today, on Canada Health Day, I am pleased to report to
members of the House of Assembly that this was a very valuable exercise for
participants, for government and for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Government is committed to working in partnership with all of our health
stakeholders in order to continue to deliver quality health services to the
people of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: This was a genuine effort by people
working with government towards the common goal of providing the best possible
health services to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Participants approached the forum with a willingness and a
commitment of improving our overall health system. This forum produced candid
and open discussion amongst a variety of knowledgeable health providers and
consumers on both the strengths, as well as, the weaknesses of our health
system.
There was general consensus amongst forum participants that
we have a good health care system with many strengths, including our dedicated
and knowledgeable staff, our fine facilities and a growing community based
health system.
The group did acknowledge and government concurs, that there
are stresses and problems in certain sectors and regions of the Province that
need to be addressed on a priority basis. Government has heard the concerns and
will begin to implement measures as quickly as possible.
Some of the concerns include doctor shortages in rural
communities, emergency room doctor shortages, workload stress on front line
workers, waiting times for cardiac surgery and other health services, the pace
of reform and the need for a more co-ordinated role of various health
professionals.
Some of the short and long-term solutions to pressing needs,
as identified by the participants include increased emphasis on prevention and
public education including more appropriate use of emergency room departments.
The establishment of an advisory council to report to government on an ongoing
basis was also suggested. Better utilization of health care workers including
nurse practitioners, allied health professionals and nursing assistants was one
priority area. Participants spoke of the need to restore some stability to an
evolving health system.
Mr. Speaker, the health forum also identified strategic
directions to guide our health system in the long term. Many spoke of the need
for better co-ordination and communication within government to recognize the
importance of the factors outside the direct health system which impact on our
health, the determination of health such as education levels, employment, income
and housing.
We also identified the need for evidence based decision
making in health service delivery. In other words, Mr. Speaker, we must
implement changes based on sound research which will ensure positive health
outcomes. The forum participants recognized that there is limited funding
available to deliver health programs and services and we must ensure we make the
right choices, sound choices, on where to allocate those resources.
Mr. Speaker, this forum was not intended to address all of
the concerns over the course of two days. However, this forum has accomplished
what the government set out to do. We heard from a wide range of knowledgeable
health professionals and consumers. Together, this group identified priorities
and brought suggestions forward. Government is prepared to move as soon as
possible in addressing these concerns.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude by publicly thanking
the forum participants who devoted their weekend to share with each other, with
government, very important, useful information as well as suggestions in
priority setting and problem solving. It is a credit to the participants of the
forum, Mr. Speaker, who are responsible and productive with their input, putting
aside personal agendas for the benefit of the health of all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay
South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is very interesting to hear the minister today. I
certainly hope that the forum was informative and certainly hope that the forum
was informative. I certainly hope that the information, whatever it is and
whatever comes out of this forum, will not be placed on a shelf to be dusted off
again in a few months time.
It is unfortunate, I guess, that the general public, who
certainly wished input into this forum, were not present in the numbers they
would have liked to have been, and it is very unfortunate that our rural doctors
were not represented at this particular forum.
Any time we get one or two or three or four people together
to talk about health care in this Province, hopefully it is of benefit; and
hopefully the report coming out of this, as I said, will not be placed on a
shelf to be dusted off somewhere else down the road.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi
Vidi. Does he have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave, the hon. the Member for Signal
Hill - Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad that the minister was there to listen to the health
care providers, at least, or some of them. I know a number of groups were not
able to participate, such as the Newfoundland Dietetic Association, who had some
very valuable ideas about how scientifically prevention programs can not only
provide better health but also save money now and in the future for the health
care system.
It was an opportunity for the minister and certain selected
invitees to hear the views of the people who were present. It is unfortunate
that it was not more open, and open to the public, and that there was not more
public participation.
It seems that the government has at least recognized that it
has a serious crisis on its hands, and that the number one issue amongst the
people of this Province is their fear that our health care situation is going to
deteriorate further.
I look forward to seeing some pretty immediate reactions from
government as a result of this forum, and some pretty dramatic solutions
presented to the people of this Province to address those concerns.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: The former Minister of Health.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today, I would like to advise this hon. House that government
has reached a decision with respect to the future delivery of Air Ambulance
Services in the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: Government has decided to remain with the
status quo and not call for tenders from the private sector to provide this
service.
Members will recall that last fall government decided to
explore the option of privatizing the Air Ambulance Services delivered by
Grenfell Regional Health Services and the Department of Works, Services and
Transportation on behalf of the Department of Health. The two factors weighing
in this direction were the need at that time to replace the King Air,
government's air ambulance aircraft, and the possibility of reducing the number
of pressurized aircraft required from two to one. Our view was that the private
sector could meet our air ambulance needs and help government achieve savings in
our operations.
In late winter, government was advised by the manufacturer of
the King Air aircraft that our aircraft's flying hours can be extended
indefinitely with the appropriate maintenance upgrading program. This service
upgrade is being undertaken at present. Secondly, a closer examination of our
aircraft requirements concluded that two pressurized aircraft will continue, in
fact, to be required. As a result, my department concluded that there would be
no advantage to privatizing the existing operations. The local airline industry
was kept apprised of our deliberations and recognized the factors that
government had to consider before it reached a final decision.
Mr. Speaker, I am happy to see that we have been able to
resolve this matter in the interests of those of our residents who have to rely
on our Air Ambulance Services and our employees who deliver this essential
service. At all times, Mr. Speaker, our deliberations kept their interests
upmost in our decision-making. I am proud to say that our air ambulance service
will continue to be one of the best services that government offers to the
public.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay
South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am certainly am glad to hear today that the Air Ambulance
Service will not be privatized. I did notice in the minister's statement,
however, that he did not really say what is going to happen in St. Anthony. I
can only assume through this that we will still have the Air Ambulance - the
ambulance will be still stationed in St. Anthony and that nothing will change.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi
Vidi.
Does he have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I welcome the decision by the minister and government to give
up on the idea of privatizing the Air Ambulance Service. It is refreshing to
note that the government does not always abide by the desires of the people who
advise them to privatize anything they can lay their hands on, and the Air
Ambulance Service is a good example of where privatization in fact reaps no
benefits, neither for the government, nor for the public.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.
MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform hon. members
that this is Police Week in Canada.
Provincial policing services are carried out in this Province
by both the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary (RNC) and the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police (RCMP). Today, I ask the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and Members
of the House of Assembly, to reflect on the outstanding services carried out by
both police forces in this Province.
The RCMP provides policing services in this Province under an
Agreement with the Solicitor General of Canada, which provides for a 70/30
(provincial/federal) financial arrangement for Provincial Policing Services. In
addition, Mr. Speaker, the RCMP operates a federal component in the Province, as
in all other provinces, which is paid for 100 per cent by the Federal
Government, and deals with Federal Policing matters such as customs and excise,
smuggling, and so on.
The RNC, with a 126 year history in this Province, provides
full policing services in St. John's, the northeast Avalon, Corner Brook and
Labrador West. The RCMP is responsible for all other areas of the Province.
Mr. Speaker, every day, members of the police forces are
faced with the need to make critical decisions which affect the safety of all of
us. Police Week provides an opportunity for the officers to take additional time
out to meet the people in their communities, and for us to see the faces of
those who keep us safe every day. The theme this year, "Police and the
Community," certainly gives us reason to celebrate among ourselves.
I want to personally commend the approximately 800 members of
both the RNC and the RCMP for providing exemplary policing services to the
citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador. Your work to protect and serve the people
of this Province does not go unnoticed.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On behalf of members of this side of the House, we join in
the celebration of Police Week here in Canada and in our own Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. We join in the recognition of the exemplary service
by both forces, both the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary and the Royal Canadian
Mounted Police. They have provided years of exemplary service in our Province
and, indeed, both forces have to be both equally respected and commended.
I would ask the hon. minister though, and members opposite,
to take time perhaps and to reflect upon the importance of policing in our
Province, and to hopefully not repeat the mistake of several months ago, when
during pre-Budget deliberations it was necessary, unfortunately, to pit one
police force in our Province against the other. To ensure the utmost in
policing, to ensure that our citizens are protected at all times, it is
essential that both forces work in co-operation with one another. I would
suggest that government take a very serious look at ensuring that it not repeat
the mistake of the past.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi
Vidi. Does he have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I wish to join with the minister and the official Opposition
critic in paying tribute to the police forces, the RCMP and the Royal
Newfoundland Constabulary, for their work and dedication, in often difficult
circumstances.
I have had occasion over the years, to have a lot of dealings
with police officers in connection with their duty. In 99.9 per cent of the
cases they are performing a terrific service on behalf of the community, on
behalf of the people in general. I am pleased to say that in this Province we
have not had the kind of problems that other provinces have had with incidents
that cause serious concern, and I think it is appropriate that we honour their
work, their commitment, and their sometimes sacrifices.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and
Aquaculture.
MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, for the last several months I have been working
with a company out of Italy, called Teleos Trading Inc., to bring a tannery to
the Baie Verte Peninsula, and it is in line with the policy that this government
has developed over the last number of months, that any resource harvested in
Newfoundland should be processed in Newfoundland wherever possible.
I played a hands-on role on this for several months because I
wanted to see this happen. We have had a sealing industry in this Province for
100-plus years. Then it went away for a number of years, but now it is back in
full flight and we are very encouraged about it. It is important for the
industry as a whole, and it is important for the economy and the creation of
jobs in this Province.
We made an announcement just a couple of weeks ago - the
Member for Baie Verte and myself, and the Minister of Industry, Trade and
Technology - of an intent to sign an agreement with this company. Since that,
the Canadian Broadcasting Company did a story here in St. John's last week which
left people with the understanding that there was something wrong, or there
wasn't a good air of environment, around this company, and that there was a suit
going to be launched against the company, Natsiq, by a company in France.
I did an interview in which I stated clearly that I had no
knowledge of it, and that I was dealing with Teleos Trading Inc., and they were
very credible people, and that I wanted to see this go on in Newfoundland but I
had some concerns that this type of news story in Newfoundland might discourage
some people, so I have been really concerned about it since. But today I just
received a copy of a letter from the Member for Baie Verte denying emphatically
any intention of a lawsuit against this company.
Mr. Speaker, for the record, I want to read this because it
goes to show you what type of environment and what type of thing goes on with
the news media here in this Province. We are trying to create opportunities for
people to get to work in this Province and earn a decent living, and always
someone is trying to put a negative spin on it.
I am very upset about it, and I am going to ask for an
apology from the CBC company to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and to
this company.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, this letter reads: I have been
informed of a report by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation with reference to
the National Polytechniqu Institute of Toulouse. I want to emphatically state,
on behalf of myself and Professor A. Costes, President of this Institute, that
this report is totally unfounded. We are committed to dealing with Natsiq
Newfoundland on seal oil refining at the Baie Verte site.
I would also like to inform you that I have the sole
responsibility to give any official information on behalf of the institute. This
information is available to anyone through phone, fax, or e-mail at any time. I
regret that any misinformation has been forthcoming. We are in good standing
with Natsiq Newfoundland and look forward to future endeavours on our other
technology on this most interesting project.
Signed, Michael Delmas. Written to Mr. Shelley, Baie Verte,
Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, I think the CBC should apologize to Newfoundland
and Labrador, to the people of this Province, but they also should write all
people concerned who were affected by this letter, by that statement last week,
with a full apology, and to correct any misinformation gone out there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would
just like to have just a minute a respond to what the minister just said.
Of course, I have been working also with the minister and
government, and we say on this side as the Opposition that any time we look at
something positive, we try to follow through with it, and believe me, in rural
Newfoundland right now we do need some positives, and we need them badly.
This project has been moving along. It has taken some time,
because I believe it is a project that is going to prove fruitful not just to
the District of Baie Verte but to this Province when we look at secondary
processing and so on. The Teleos Trading group, which I visited also in Italy
with the minister, we found to be a reputable company which I think is going to
have a long-lasting affect in this Province when it comes to leather tanning.
When I saw the news release on Friday, when I saw the
statement by CBC on Friday, I was surprised also, and contacted these people
immediately, with the proof in the letter that these people are willing to come
here and work together to see something positive in this Province. It is really
unfortunate that these types of things have to happen, when we look for
something positive that negative spins can be put on this. I hope this puts this
to bed, and I hope that within this next month we are going to see that group
back in this Province and they are going to put people to work. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Member for Signal Hill -
Quidi Vidi have leave to respond to the statement?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I didn't see the CBC report, but
I understand from second-hand reports that it was quite dramatic in its
criticism of certain aspects of the project. It is good to see a quick response
from the institute involved. I hope that this letter will put to rest any
concerns about the project. Perhaps CBC should look into it a little further and
do the right thing. If it turns out that it has gone overboard on this, then I
think it is appropriate for it to reverse the damage that it has done and make
sure that the public is informed about the true state of the facts.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today
are to the Minister of Health. Following the Health Forum this weekend, can the
minister tell the House what concerns were raised this weekend that government
was not already aware of?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think if my
hon. colleague had been listening to the ministerial statement he would have
heard the issues and the concerns that were raised in the Health Forum this
weekend.
As government said at the very beginning, the purpose of this
forum was not to solve all the problems in two days, out of respect for the
health care system and the intricacies of an over $900 million system. What we
did hope, and what we did receive during the weekend, was a very good forum
where people from all the health care providing areas within health care -
nurses, doctors, front-line workers, administrators, and consumers - came
together in the same room, which is the first time that I can ever remember in
my career as a health care professional anything of this nature.
Not only did we identify priorities, and give people a forum
to speak - and which, I have to say, unlike my hon. colleague across the way who
thought it was the biggest pile of garbage, quite frankly, the participants, all
of them, it has been evaluated, have ruled that this forum was a very useful
first step and a beginning to setting out some priorities and solutions. Some
would be of a short-term nature, and obviously some will have to be of a longer
nature. That was the purpose of the forum and that is what was accomplished.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the minister: Could she could tell us what topics or
what concerns were raised this weekend that you, as minister, and government
were not aware of before?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think I will not minimize the impact of the forum by saying
this was said or that was said. We not only heard a list of issues and items but
we heard priorities and we were given very good suggestions for solutions. I am
not going to stand up in the House today and talk about them because we have
given the process that we would follow. We have been honest from day one with
the participants in the forum. We told them that we would meet with Cabinet. We
would bring our issues, as they have raised them, on their behalf, to Cabinet
and we would look at it. We will report and we will get back to them in a timely
way. That has not changed. Yes, Mr. Speaker, sure we have listened to a number
of various groups who came to Social Policy over the last number of weeks to
make presentations. But, I think, to identify the importance of this forum, Mr.
Speaker, we had all the participants in the room at the same time. We had
everybody participating in the process of priority-setting and solution-making,
and that was the benefit, Mr. Speaker, of that forum.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Not one item did she mention that was raised that she was not
aware of, not one. She could not answer the question, Mr. Speaker.
Now can the minister tell us whether or not a presentation on
behalf of rural physicians was made this weekend? What plan for the recruitment
of rural physicians came out of the weekend forum?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to say that the forum was a very positive forum
and I think, as I will say again, government achieved what it set out to do by
bringing all the forum participants together. I can quote one of the physicians
that was there and said: I thought it was a useful exercise and it brought all
the stakeholders in the process together. The thing that was very encouraging
was to see that most of the Social Policy Committee and MHA representatives were
very useful in at least having an ear to listen and being very appreciative of
the fact that all the problems were laid out to them and they had a greater
appreciation at the end of the exercise.
AN HON. MEMBER: Was that the Chairman?
MR. DECKER: Dr. Misik.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: It was Dr. Karl Misik who said that,
Mr. Speaker.
Also, I would like to say, rural physicians, as I mentioned
in my Ministerial Statement, was one of the very important issues that was
raised, but I can also say, Mr. Speaker, emergency room doctors, workload,
stress, prevention, health care promotion and a number of other issues, that is
the answer to the question. Mr. Speaker, that was one of many other issues that
was addressed. He does not want to hear that it was a good forum, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Two questions - still no answers, no plan, I say to the
minister. I asked her: What plan do you have for recruitment of rural physicians
and there was no plan. The minister told us there was no plan. Now I ask the
minister: Why were not the dieticians, pharmacists and ambulance operators -
could you tell us why they were not invited? Do you have a reason for that?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I know it is very
disappointing for my hon. colleague to be able to recognize that this was a
successful first step in addressing problems.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J. M. AYLWARD: I know it is rough, Mr. Speaker. What
plan do we have, Mr. Speaker? We have a plan to continue to consult, to work
with the front-line health care providers. And, Mr. Speaker, we made it clear,
unlike the colleagues across the table who thought it was the biggest pile of
garbage they have ever heard about and that it was nothing but a publicity scam,
we believe, Mr. Speaker, it is the first step to working with the health care
providers on the front lines to address the problems of rural physicians,
emergency room physicians and changing how we deliver services here. Mr.
Speaker, many of the people in that room, including the nurses and doctors,
identified the challenges that we face with trying to provide rural physicians
to every area of the Province. We all recognize that even with a physician in
every area of the Province, that physician being on call every night, can no
longer sustain such a lifestyle. Mr. Speaker, the shame involved here is that
the people on the other side of the House cannot acknowledge and recognize that
this was a very positive forum, bringing all the people together, and we are
going to work on solutions that are priority basis.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a
supplementary.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Once again, people were not invited, stakeholders in health
care were excluded, and the minister could not tell us why.
Now Minister, many people have taken their last step not
their first step. Many people in this Province waiting for surgery have taken
their last step because you and your members in Cabinet did not move to deal
with the problem. Now, can the minister tell this House what the overall
strategy - if she does not have any specific plans, what was the overall
strategy that was recommended by representatives to deal with the numerous
health care problems in this Province, many created by the current Premier in
transfer payments when he was our minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, in our forum this weekend,
we had a very sensible group of health care providers who recognized the
situation that we are in in this Province. People came in, and realized, putting
their agendas aside, that we were there to improve the health care system of the
Province. We are not going in with a blank cheque, Mr. Speaker, we were honest
with them from the beginning and we will work with them to solve the problems.
The plan, Mr. Speaker, is clear. We will solve the issues on
a priority basis, as has been identified, and out of respect to the very
intricate system, we will put a longer-term plan in place to deal with the
issues that will require more time, more planning to deal with. That is what we
are planning to do, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a
supplementary.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Long-term planning? We need immediate action.
I ask the minister, in light of the current crisis today with
the shortage of emergency physicians and in rural areas, what emergency measures
are you going to put in place now, until the problem can be fixed on a long-term
basis?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, when we met on the weekend
with our health care providers, one of the first things that came out was that
our system has a number of strengths that we need to build on, and I mentioned
those in our Ministerial Statement.
Our system has problems in certain sectors, and yes, Mr.
Speaker, in certain regions. Our health care system, Mr. Speaker, is not in
crisis. We have some clear problems; we have recognized them; we have
acknowledged them and we are willing to work on addressing them but I think it
is most unfair and it is a form of fearmongering, Mr. Speaker, to try to instill
such a crisis sense amongst the people of the Province. We are not in a health
care crisis; we have problems; we have admitted we have had problems and we are
going to address them.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to cardiac surgery and the waiting
list we said late last week that we would be bringing forward an announcement
within the coming days to address that issue and we will do so.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a
supplementary.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
You try telling the 2,000 people who showed up in Port aux
Basques that they are not in crisis, and start telling the people in Corner
Brook and other sites in this Province. Minister, it is the same song - you are
singing from the same song-book as the previous minister. There are parts of
this Province in crisis.
Now, I ask the minister: Is it the intention of this
minister, as it was with her predecessor, to send cardiac patients out of the
Province, and if so, has she done a cost comparison to sending them out as
opposed to doing the surgeries here and making accommodations in this Province
that we have called for on many occasions?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J. M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess my hon. colleague will have to wait like everybody
else in the House will have to wait for the Ministerial Statement and the
information to be released in the coming days. That is what we are finalizing;
that is what we will be doing and we will be making our decisions, Mr. Speaker,
based on what the health care providers told us this weekend, if we have money
available. They do not want us to put money here and money there; they want us
to use what we call evidence-based decision-making, knowing that when money is
put in, it is put into the right place for the right services at the right time,
and we know that the outcomes will improve. And that is our plan, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a
supplementary.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Almost four years ago, I raised the issue of a waiting list
of 110 people for cardiac surgery. Almost four years later, there are over 200
and nothing was done to accommodate the increasing need on an appropriate basis.
I ask the minister: What was recommended by cardiac
physicians regarding the serious problems of waiting lists to deal with it now
in the short term?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, we have announced the
increased funding to address the needs in the long-term. We are expecting that
the necessary facility - no in the long-term because we are doing something more
important in the short-term.
MR. SULLIVAN: I asked short-term.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: In the long-term, we are putting more
money into the facility to make the necessary changes to recovery room and
anestethic requirements that are necessary to do the increase cardiac surgery.
In the shorter-term, we will be making an announcement to
deal with the backlog of cardiac patients that are waiting, how they are decided
and where they will go, it is not a decision for this government, for the
members in this room. There is a triage committee in place, there is a cardiac
team that makes that decision and that is how those decisions will be made for
the cardiac patients that are waiting to have their surgery out of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition,
supplementary.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This government has stated and the former minister has
stated, that it will be two years before we are prepared to do cardiac surgeries
here in this Province and the corporation intends to borrow money when they do
this extension to the Health Sciences. Now, that is what the former minster
stated.
Now, I ask can the minister specify exactly when we should
expect this government to deal with the health care problems, in particular
rural doctors, the emergency waiting list at emergency departments, the cardiac
care and the continued reduction of health transfers. When can we expect action
from the government on those four very important matters?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Well, Mr. Speaker, the first thing I
would like to say is I am very glad my hon. colleague has talked about the
problems in health care in his question and not the crisis in health care
because there are problems and we have identified them and as I said last week,
we will be making an announcement in the coming days about the cardiac surgery.
In our forum this weekend, and we have told the forum
participants and the public, that we will be dealing with issues that have been
raised on a priority basis. Some of those that have been raised on a priority
basis include; dealing with the rural physicians, dealing with the emergency
room physicians, dealing with expanded roles, like nurse practitioners, etc. and
also dealing with focusing more on prevention and early intervention. That is
what we are going to do in the coming weeks, but I think out of fairness,
yesterday being Mothers Day, today being our first day back, I think it would be
nice to report to our colleagues, to have a chance to review, to reflect and to
make some good solid decisions before we go ahead with all the solutions. If we
had all of the solutions we would have done them years ago. That is why we are
consulting and that is why we are going to take the appropriate time to deal
with it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay
South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Health.
Minister there are increasing incidents of breast cancer in
the Province and given the importance of early detection, can the minister tell
us what is being done to reduce the waiting time for women to receive a
mammogram?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think, based on some of the indications that we have gotten
and clearly the directions in which we would like to go, we would very much like
to focus our health in this Province and I say health instead of health care,
what I mean by that is focus more on things like prevention. So, it certainly
would be an area in which we would like to move in a more clear direction, but
as again, I would ask my hon. colleague to have a heart. I have been here for a
day and if you want me to give you the specifics on exactly what is done, one,
two, three and four, I am not able to that at this point in time. I will take it
under advisement, but I will tell you that our government is committed to
changing from a health care system to more of a health system with a focus on
prevention.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay
South, supplementary.
MR. FRENCH: Minister, a lady from the West Coast informed
us that she has to wait eleven months to receive this testing. Does the minister
consider this to be an acceptable time period and if not then what can she do to
see if this time can be improved upon?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think whenever we can endeavour to decrease waiting lists
and increase the access to the health care system in any way, we will certainly
work towards those means, but I would ask my hon. colleague to put forward the
information and follow in the footsteps of my predecessor, if you have specific
information, if you have a case that we need to follow up on, by all means me
and my officials will be happy to take it and deal with it on a case by case
basis.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay
South, supplementary.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Minister, the women in Labrador do not have access to this
equipment, they must travel to the Island portion of this Province for this
service which costs thousands of dollars. Is the minister aware of an unequal
access to such service by Labradorians, and what are your plans to solve this
problem?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think one of
the areas that did come up the weekend was the whole issue of access and
expectations. We don't have a CAT scan in Labrador either. We have to do certain
changes and we have to look at, I guess, how we are going to reorganize our
health system.
Many of the discussions that focused around this morning, for
example, was how we can better use clusters of professionals in a group in an
area, rather than increase all kinds of equipment and surgery, and having, for
example, a brain surgeon in every area of the Province. We know we aren't able
to do those things. So we have to very seriously look at how we are going to
develop our health system over the coming years. But we recognize we can only do
it with the health care providers helping us and consulting with us.
Again, I would say that we will be talking about how we
deliver those types of services and recognizing that you have some facilities
and services available in some of your tertiary areas which you don't have in
other areas, and that is certainly an issue that we have to live with in that
respect. But we have to also deal with access so that all people will have the
availability to services as they need them.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are all aware of
the oil spills that took place at the oil storage facilities on the Southside
Hills earlier this year. While there is no set timetable, the minister has at
his discretion legislation to request a pressure testing at any oil storage
facility in the Province. Can the minister tell the House the results of the
testing that was conducted at the oil storage facility on the Southside Hills
earlier this year?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and
Labour.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, first off I thank the member
for the question. On the specifics of the question, we have directed Irving Oil
to do a number of tests including pressure testing at the facility. The results
will be available shortly. We have also asked it to do a number of other tests
examining the site. We have had a number of inspectors up there to look further
at the site. We have also asked the Fire Commissioner's office to do a full and
thorough review of the safety of the equipment and so on. So we are doing really
a thorough overview of the site itself. We have also again announced a
prosecution and charges against the company because of laxness, and we are going
to deal with that issue in the short term also. So yes, to the specifics of the
question, we have asked for that testing and we should have a report very
shortly.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St.
John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The charges and
prosecution the minister has made mention of has been deferred through the
courts. I wonder if the minister can bring us up to date on where those charges
stand at this time.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and
Labour.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, our department announced the
charges and the Crown is dealing with that, with the company, through the court
system. I'm assuming the deliberations should occur very shortly, but that is in
the court system. Our charges are there, they speak for themselves, the
documents are public. We believe the company did not act properly in this case
and it will be dealt with through the court system. We are also doing an
intensive review of the site and of the operations at the same time.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St.
John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When is the minister
going to improve legislation that is presently in place to ensure that testing
of oil storage facilities is conducted on a regular interval, as opposed to at
the discretion of the minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and
Labour.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, prior to this spill we had
an inspection up there about six weeks before at the site. We are doing some
preventive work. We are, though, reforming the environment act, and we expect
the first draft to be available very shortly, the next few weeks. I would
welcome the Opposition member, the Opposition critic, and anybody else who wants
to have an input into the legislation. We are going to reform the act to put it
specifically in legislation that we deal with companies, and that they be
provided requirements on paper. Right now we are doing it through regulation,
and we are looking forward to having a new environment act come to the House by
the fall, hopefully.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South, a
supplementary.
MR. OSBORNE: Can the minister inform us when the last
pressure testing was done at that facility?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and
Labour.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to get that
detail for the member this afternoon and provide it to him and to the House the
next day. Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question today is for the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs.
Mr. Speaker, in the last week-and-a-half or so, I have been
travelling throughout my district and other places in rural Newfoundland, and I
can tell you, some people are very upset when it comes to the infrastructure and
the way it was allocated in this Province. And it is no different in my
district, Mr. Speaker, just $300,000 for thirty-three rural communities.
I would like to ask the minister first of all - there have
been some changes already, the civic centre, of course, in his own district.
What other flexibility - will there be a movement of that funding that has
already been allocated to some more infrastructure such as water and sewer in
rural Newfoundland? Will there be more movement with allocation of that funding?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs.
MR. A. REID: Mr. Speaker, I can inform the hon. member
and the House that he was not the member receiving the lowest funds for
infrastructure. There were other members sitting on this side of the House - I
think the Premier was one of them. And yes, the infrastructure program amounted
to $31 million, and between the Federal Government and the Provincial
Government, certain priorities were stated by the federal MPs and by local MHAs.
I can say quite honestly right now that at this particular point in time, the
infrastructure funding has come to a halt, because we are up to the $31 million.
There will not be any further infrastructure funding announced; if there is any
slippage, we will have to wait until after the federal election, which is some
time in June, and at that point in time, if there is any slippage, then the
federal member will have as much input into making decisions as to where that
money will go as I do, or does the Provincial Government. I will say to the hon.
member that, because of representation by, I think it is Mr. Byrne, the federal
member, I am not sure - Mr. Byrne was successful last week in securing, I think,
Mr. Speaker, if I am not mistaken, approximately $200,000 for the Town of Baie
Verte for upgrading and paving.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte, a
supplementary.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, I tell the minister, I am not
interested in the federal election right now, today; I am interested because I
just had a call - I am not worried about the Premier and his district, because I
just had a very disturbing call before I came here today.
The community of Burlington has applied since 1989 for water
and sewer. They have paid their debts right up through, as a matter of fact,
December of this year. A community of 300 people, they have paid $42,000 and
have kept up to it. And of course my recommendation is that they should keep up
to it if they are ever to get infrastructure funding.
Mr. Speaker, as of Friday, I say to the minister, this group
called me and asked me to ask this question today of the minister. Because, as
of Friday, they are locking up the council office in Burlington; they are not
resigning on Friday, but they will in a week or so if they do not get any
response from the government that they have, somewhere down the line - a
community that has been paying their debts - some chance of receiving water and
sewer. That is why I ask the minister again, today, about the flexibility - and
if Mr. Byrne or anybody else will commit to communities like that, who see
sewage coming out of their back yards, when he has talked about civic centres
around this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SHELLEY: Can the minister respond to that?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs.
MR. A. REID: Mr. Speaker, Burlington or any other
community or community council in this Province will not hold this Provincial
Government at ransom over capital funding or infrastructure money.
AN HON. MEMBER: Vote Liberal the next election
(inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte, a
supplementary.
MR. SHELLEY: I want to get that on record, Mr. Speaker.
The member just said: Vote Liberal next election.
Well, Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the member that we
are on the government side federally, and this is what happened. I remind the
minister of that also, and I will say it again where we had a laugh from him
before: This is not about a federal election.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SHELLEY: I was out in the real world over the weekend
and ran up against these people -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary.
MR. SHELLEY: - on my way to a protest, getting cut off by
another protest. It is a bad problem in rural Newfoundland. I will ask the
minister again, on behalf of Burlington and other communities like it, about the
flexibility for federal funding for the basics in this problem, which are water
and sewer.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs.
MR. A. REID: If I am allowed, Mr. Speaker, in the Town of
Kippens, Office of the Mayor: Dear Mr. Reid: Allow me to extend my sincere thank
you for your efforts and support by your department in approving the funding for
municipal water supply in Kippens.
I believe Kippins can be considered a rural community. Mr.
Speaker, there are hundreds of communities in the Province that we try to
provide funding to. If I had to divide the funding equally among all communities
in the Province, nobody would get anything done. There is a selection process
and, Mr. Speaker, you know and this House knows that in selecting capital works
and infrastructure money, this government and I, as the Minister of Municipal
and Provincial Affairs, have been fair to the other side. For four years I have
been fair. There are members sitting on the opposite side of the House who came
in with their wish list to me and managed to secure 100 per cent funding because
their wish list was presented to me.
I apologize to the hon. member that I could not provide
funding to every rural community in the Province. But I will say to the Mayor of
Burlington: If you have problems, you are better off probably coming to me and
sitting down to solve your problems than you are bringing them to the attention
of the House through the hon. member so he can get up and make political points
by doing so. I say to the hon. House that if - I will repeat what I said in the
beginning - if there is any money left over in the infrastructure, it is the
federal member who must decide where that money goes. I say publicly that the
Mayor of Burlington would be better off speaking to his Liberal member in Ottawa
at the present time than through that member speaking to the Minister of
Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, I am just going to remind the
minister that we are in Canada and it is supposed to be a democracy. I was
elected by the people of Baie Verte district and I will request for those people
what they asked me for today. They are upset by their member on the Federal
Government side, Mr. Speaker, that there was no response. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am
requesting that meeting today in this House for that mayor and that council who
will be here tomorrow. I ask the minister: Will he have a meeting with that
council?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs.
MR. A. REID: No, I am not going to apologize, I am going
to do better than that. I will say quite honestly, Mr. Speaker, that this is
probably one of the best representatives in this House as it relates to rural
constituency work. I have no problem with the gentleman. He knows how I feel
about his work and what he is trying to do for his rural communities that he
represents in the House of Assembly. But I will say again, Mr. Speaker, he asked
a question about infrastructure, and I told him that in order to secure
infrastructure, he had to speak to his federal member. Now, it would be better
for him and the people of Burlington to go to their federal member, try to
convince their federal member that after the election is over and their federal
member is re-elected, he will have a better chance of securing funding on the
infrastructure than standing in the House asking me. So I say quite honestly,
Mr. Speaker, the member should speak to the hon. Mr. Byrne who lives on the West
Coast, get his community to speak to Mr. Byrne, and maybe Mr. Byrne will be as
successful in securing funding for Burlington as he was for Baie Verte.
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I present a petition today on behalf of 229 people. I will
read the prayer of the petition.
To the hon. House of Assembly in the Province of
Newfoundland, in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents
of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador asks the House of Assembly to
accept the following prayer:
We hereby petition the House of Assembly to direct the
Department of Works, Services and Transportation to upgrade and pave the road to
the north side of Calvert.
Mr. Speaker, many roads in my district, especially roads
leading to several communities, are in atrocious shape. I say to the Minister of
Works, Services and Transportation, I certainly invite him, as I did with a
previous minister a few years ago, to take a look. Just drive along the roads in
the district, and I can assure you that you will not see worse paved roads in
the Province. Some are in deplorable shape.
This particular road to Calvert North is in atrocious shape.
There are a large number of people who commute to that area. The community ball
field is there, the community swimming area, access to the woods for
wood-cutting; people have to access it. The major store in the community is
there, and there are numerous other services in that area. People who are
driving there, truck drivers and other residents of the community, have been
indicating that it is in atrocious shape and is badly in need of repair.
Mr. Speaker, the roads in this Province, in this particular
area, are in a state of decline, and if something is not done in the short term
we are going to need a considerable infusion of dollars to be able to fix the
problem. It has gone beyond the stage - when you drive over a dirt road with, I
would say, hundreds and hundreds of potholes, a little bit of asphalt thrown in
there in the summertime, it works out after the wintertime, and numerous damage
is done to cars, to suspensions and tires and so on. It is atrocious that we are
allowing roads like this in rural parts of our Province to decline.
I have had the opportunity to travel just about every single
road in this Province, with just some exceptions - not too many exceptions, I
might say -
MR. EFFORD: Have you been down to Port de Grave?
MR. SULLIVAN: Yes.
MR. EFFORD: It is a good road, is it not it?
MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, I say to the minister, there is a big
difference between that road and the roads that some of the people in my
district have to drive over. Some of these roads were put down very quickly
twenty-six and twenty-seven years ago in the old political style of the snow
plough first and the asphalt truck next. They were put down by both governments,
by former PC governments and by former Liberal governments, and it does not make
the problem any better. It is important to look at a priority list.
In fact, I say to the minister, when the department did their
priority list for roads in my district, this road was not on the list. They had
inadvertently left it out. It was not even included. So, Mr. Speaker, it is
right up near the top of the list. There are four or five roads in the district
that are deplorable. You cannot meet a vehicle without going off the edge of the
pavement, with drops of a foot or two in some cases. Some are marked where you
have to slow down when you meet traffic, even on a paved road that has hundreds
of people living there. There are roughly 250 people living there. Many use this
road, with the basic services of the community being operated in that part of
the community.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister to look at, in his budget of
roads and priorities, certainly next year... Also, last year in my district
there was, I guess, some extra funding and they allowed one of the roads to be
done by at least doing general work. It was not a major restructuring job but at
least it served the purpose and it should hold for several years. It is
something that could be re-allocated, because I am sure many of those tenders in
the competitive age today may come in under budget and there is always some room
within the capital budget of the department to be able to do something.
I call upon the minister to look at these, to look at the
priorities, and look at the declining state of roads here in the Province
because it is going to have very serious repercussions for many tourists
visiting those areas. It leaves a very bad impression.
We have failed - in the last while, $12 million last year was
spent on infrastructure under Works, Services and Transportation in the Province
when we used to be spending $50 million. We are down to 25 per cent of what used
to be spent and we cannot expect those roads to be able to be kept up to the
same standard. It is very costly for trucks and businesses operating on these
roads and incurring extra expense in the process.
So, Mr. Speaker, once again, I ask the minister to take a
very serious look and see what can be done to alleviate this very serious
problem.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise to support the petition put forward by the Leader of
our Party. This particular member, the Member for Ferryland, lives in his
district, drives back and forth all the time. He perhaps knows that shore and
the highway that leads down to the Southern Shore better than anybody else here
in this House. The people from the Southern Shore have to drive back and forth
to the capital city on a daily basis for many of their services. They need to
drive this highway to get medical services other than those offered by a family
practitioner. Therefore, it is a main highway for all the people who live down
on the Southern Shore.
Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition is that they want the
government to recognize that the infrastructure, namely, the highway leading
down the Southern Shore, is in deplorable condition and has not been upgraded as
it should have been done for many, many years.
Mr. Speaker, they are asking that Works, Services and
Transportation upgrade and pave the road on the north side of Calvert, in
particular and, of course, we are supporting this petition because it is the
kind of petition that is put forward on behalf of the residents. They believe
and they know what it is like to drive over very bad roads, and we, on this
side, support it enthusiastically and ask the hon. the minister if he would do
something about it.
We see petitions coming forward all the time here and the
minister probably is going to ignore this petition the same way that he is
ignoring it right now and not listening to the voices of the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. They sent petitions here on health care and he
ignored them, he procrastinated, did not do a thing and eventually we were into
a state of absolute chaos because of his indecision, his incompetence.
We are now seeing the minister having the first chance to
rise in the House and to respond to the wishes of the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador and, in particular in this case, a petition from the good people in
Calvert. We just hope that the minister does not bring to this office the same
level of competency that he brought to his last office. We want him to do a
better job - have the people of Calvert to look forward to a better job and have
the problem addressed in their district by way of having their roads repaired in
a very timely manner.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a
petition on behalf of a number of residents of the Province concerning their
desire to have the House of Assembly direct the government to establish a
universal comprehensive school lunch program for every school in Newfoundland
and Labrador to help end child hunger and give our children a better chance.
Mr. Speaker, these residents are from the towns of Paradise,
Portugal Cove, St. John's, I notice a few signatures here from the Burin
Peninsula, from Garnish and Lewin's Cove.
Mr. Speaker, this is a petition that is gaining widespread
support in the Province from people who have an opportunity to sign the
petition. It is one which recognizes that there is an increasing concern in our
communities and in our Province and, indeed, throughout the country for the
plight of people who have very little money to spend and whose children are
suffering from lack of sufficient food and proper nutritious diet. It recognizes
that in our school system, where children come to school hungry, they are unable
to fully address the opportunities offered by school, to fully participate in
the school program, to actually be there to learn, as opposed to being there to
survive. The issue has been well-recognized by researchers.
I heard the Minister of Health today, for example, talk about
evidence-based policy. This is a new phrase for me. It is a new watchword of the
Department of Health. One thing that you do not need much evidence for - and I
am sure the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture would agree, although there is
plenty around, is that children who are hungry are not able to properly learn.
You do not need a lot of evidence for that. People can see it with their own
eyes, as the minister has had the occasion to do, and many others have as well.
Dr. Patricia Canning in her report to the government last fall fully recognized
the effects of poverty on the ability to learn, and the nutritional deficiencies
of our schoolchildren.
The school lunch program, Mr. Speaker, should be a small part
of educational reform. We have, in our education system, a process of reform.
There are many reforms going on in the education system. Some of them are
probably not that good, and some people question the nature of the activities
undertaken in the name of reform, but there is one reform that needs to be
undertaken while we are busy transforming the school system in this Province. I
know, if the former Minister of Education were in that position, who is now the
Minister of Justice, he would be taking a very hard look at this aspect of the
reform of the education system.
One way to reform the education system in a positive way that
nobody would deny, would be to provide a nutritional school lunch program for
each and every student, so that students can participate fully in education. We
could probably, over the long term, alleviate the need of some special education
programs. We could probably, over the long term, alleviate the need for a number
of programs to address the problems that these hungry children are going to face
if they do not get a proper education and they do not get part of a chance, at
least, to have a decent, nutritious meal and to participate in our society.
It is becoming increasingly of concern to me and many others,
the inequities in our society, the fact that so many people are below the
poverty line. In this Province, in fact, the number of children below the
poverty line from 1989 to 1995 increased by 50 per cent in a Province of Canada,
one of the supposedly richest nations of the world, one of the most desirable
places to live. I think we have a long way to go in recognizing that the
inequality that exists amongst our people must be addressed and has to be
changed.
This petition is a very practical, one-step approach to
saying that we have a great deal of money being freed up as a result of the
changes in our education system. I am not going to debate the pros and cons of
those changes. A lot of people are complaining about how they may apply to their
particular school or their particular community. But one thing we all do know is
that a terrific amount of government money is being saved in the process. Some
of that money - I know there were promises made in the past, and I know the
former Minister of Education is on record in public, at a public forum, saying
that the money would go to (inaudible) education -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: But we are only asking for some of it for
looking after the school lunch program.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. H. HODDER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, noticed today that the Minister of Health talked
about evidence-based decision-making. When it comes to child poverty, I hold up
to the minister Special Matters: The Report of the Review of Special
Education by Dr. Patricia Canning, and I in particular refer to
chapter
three, called "Poverty and Education."
In this particular report, there are lots of subheads that
refer particularly to other studies and other pieces of evidence. On page 37
there is a
section called "Poverty, Illiteracy and Educational Achievement in
Newfoundland and Labrador." It talks about implications of general
underachievement for special education. It talks about the effect of poverty on
children and youth, and we could go on and on. This particular report draws a
lot of conclusions relative to the high incidence of poverty in our population,
particularly poverty as it affects children and their performance in the school
system.
Mr. Speaker, I would also just like to read into the record
some of the information that is contained in the publication of the government,
Volume Two, Investing in People and Communities; A Framework for Social
Development . I refer to
section 2, page 5 in this report. The minister again
referred to evidence-based decision-making. Let me read what it says here. It
says: Social assistance benefit rates have not increased since 1992 and are
among the lowest in Canada. The level of benefits does not provide a sufficient
income for nutritionist food, adequate housing and other necessities. It says:
Child poverty is a function of family poverty and is part of a complex array of
interrelated problems. Children are dependent on their families and environment
to help them succeed.
In particular, referring to research, it says: Research
indicates that children who grow up poor show almost three-and-a-half times the
number of conduct disorders, almost twice the chronic illnesses, and more than
twice the rate of school problems, hyperactivity and emotional disorders as
children who are not poor.
Mr. Speaker, there is an evidence base for a program of
aggressive action when it comes to helping solve the problems that poor people
have in trying to provide for their families, and in particular trying to
provide for their children.
Mr. Speaker, we know that these problems that children have
are frequently carried over to adulthood and may lead to further cycles of poor
parenting - the report says: abusive behaviour and reduced ability to be
self-sufficient and productive.
Mr. Speaker, this is the evidence, and I am glad to hear the
Minister of Health say today that she is taking an evidence-based pattern of
decision-making in her office, because I can tell you that she did not quite do
that when she was Minister of Human Resources and Employment, because the
evidence is right here. She should have been reading what has been written for
her in terms of the Social Policy Advisory Committee Report, because that tells
us what the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi has been talking about is very
sound and we should be supporting everything we can to make sure the children of
the poor in this Province have an equal opportunity as those who are born to
people of more means, and who are therefore able to give their children greater
opportunities.
Mr. Speaker, I commend the petition to the House and ask the
government if they would listen to it and use the multitude of evidence they
have - lots of it - from very specific studies and very general studies but all
drawing the same conclusion, that we must do something about child poverty in
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition put forward by 400 people
in the Winter Brook area. The petition reads:
We, the undersigned concerned citizens of Winter Brook and
surrounding area, do hereby petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to immediately allocate necessary funding for the pavement of the road on Route
234, starting from the community of Jamestown towards and including the
community of Winter Brook.
Mr. Speaker, what those 400 signatures are asking for is a
road that extends from the last community which was paved, which was Jamestown,
or part of that community, on into their community. That particular road was
upgraded some three years ago to a condition whereby now it only needs Class A
stone and then it would be ready for paving. Those people have waited patiently
for years and years and years to see this particular road upgraded and paved.
They were under the impression that once the road was upgraded it would be
allowed to be worn in, or settled if you would, and then the contractors would
come back and they would see pavement go into their community.
Mr. Speaker, this particular community is one of the very few
communities in this area that almost has full employment, not in the community
itself but just about every resident there that is in the workforce are working
outside of the community somewhere else and have chosen to live in Winter Brook.
There are two small businesses there, Mr. Speaker. There is one of the biggest
saw mill operators in Newfoundland located on this particular road and all the
people are asking for is something that most people in this Province take for
granted. They are not looking for a stadium, Mr. Speaker, they are not looking
for sidewalks, they are not looking for water and sewer. They are asking for a
piece of pavement, Mr. Speaker, an extension to the road that is leading to
Winter Brook from Jamestown on into their community. It is not a lot to ask for
today, Mr. Speaker. It is something that most other people, as I said, take for
granted. Those people should be allowed to open their windows in the summertime,
paint their houses, Mr. Speaker, allowed to put their clothes on the line and
not have it covered with dust and other debris from this particular road. Like I
said, these people were expecting this road to be paved. It seems like it is a
low priority because of the size of the community I suppose but here again is
one of the few communities that is continuing to grow.
I went down there yesterday, Mr. Speaker, and I saw two new
houses being started. I saw one house that was moved in, ready to be put on a
foundation and I saw the foundations put down for two other houses in this
community. So sure it is a small community but it is a growing community and the
people who have lived there, Mr. Speaker, have been there for all of their adult
lives and they are going to live there. That is their community and it is their
home.
Also on this particular road there are a fair number of
cabins. The people use the access road down to Chance Harbour and there is a
fair size logging operation in this particular area as well. The road is
approximately 8 kilometres from where the pavement ends now out to and including
both routes through the community.
MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible).
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know, I say to the Minister of
Fisheries and Aquaculture, but the minister knows full well about the road that
I am talking about because he had visited that particular area a few years ago
when he was the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. He is probably
the minister that was responsible for the upgrading of the road but it needs to
be taken one step further and it needs to be paved. Probably, Mr. Speaker, it is
a situation where I don't see where a government can afford not to pave this
particular road because in this area, other than the 2.6 kilometres of the road
through Jamestown, it is the only dirt road in all this area. So it means having
to maintain a grader, having to maintain a grader operator, having to use sand
instead of salt in the wintertime to maintain this particular road. It must be
an astronomical expense to the Department of Works, Services and Transportation.
So I support the people of Winter Brook in trying to get
their road paved. It is a very small request considering some of the dollars
that have been put out today for projects that are least important, Mr. Speaker,
not near as important as this particular project. I commend them for taking the
initiative, for bringing their concerns forward in the form of a petition.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: I ask the minister if he would pay heed
to this request and if he would see fit to allocate funds for this particular
area? I can assure him that it would certainly be appreciated. Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. H. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, just for a second I would
like to rise and support the petition put forward by the Member for Bonavista
South. As we said many times in the House, we do have to try to recognize that
rural Newfoundland is under seige in many parts of this Province and that we
have to try to maintain a certain quality to our infrastructure. If we don't
maintain that infrastructure then the future opportunities would become fewer
and fewer. So, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the specific requests, I have talked to
the member about it. He indicated to me that this is not a very, very expensive
proposition and that certainly there is a need for us to support the
infrastructure needs in parts of the Province where there is a realistic
possibility that people will be able to get back to somewhat full employment in
the very near future.
So we should be making sure that we don't let the downturn of
the fishery be the excuse by which we start to de-emphasize the validity of the
people's request in rural Newfoundland, therefore we cannot say because there is
no fishery there now, we are going to let the infrastructure to simply go
downhill and downhill and downhill because studies will show - and the Minister
of Municipal and Provincial Affairs would have them - that is what happened in
the United States - and studies on infrastructure will show that if you start
neglecting your infrastructure, it is the beginning of the end of your
communities. There is lots of information on that so I commend the member and
look forward to his being able to get a very positive response from the Minister
of Works, Services and Transportation.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate
the opportunity put forward by my hon. colleague across the way to get up. If he
had not presented the petition I would have had to wait for another item on
which to speak.
The petition, Mr. Speaker, is a petition in and of itself. It
is always really, a welcome thing to have presented in the House because it does
a couple of things. It shows that people who live in a given area of the
Province have taken the time to pay attention to what some of their needs are
and are prepared to put an effort into going out and putting signatures to paper
to ensure that, what in their view is a solution to a problem and is put before
the people whom they elect to govern the Province and so I always welcome a
petition when it comes forward.
Obviously, Mr. Speaker, I am not intimately familiar being
only in the job just a day or two, and with all of the roads in the Province I
intend to familiarize myself to a much greater degree with our roads network in
the Province and to looking at what our needs are in terms of transportation
links and the improvements in the area of our highways and that sort of thing,
and I will commit to the hon. member to come to that area of the Province within
the next several months and hopefully, I will get a chance to look at the eight
kilometres of road that is referred to here.
Having said that, Mr. Speaker, it is obvious the government
cannot address all of the needs of all of the people at the same time. I believe
that was amply laid out by my colleague, the hon. Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs today, when he made the point that everybody's needs cannot
be addressed at the same time within the existing resources that we have and so,
when the people of the Province put forward a request for road improvements like
this, they are really doing themselves a great service, not a disservice but a
great service in that it puts in front of the politicians who in turn put it in
front of the officials the request that has come forward and of course, this
type of representation is not lost when we look at how we are going to meet the
needs in the future.
So, while I am not able to support specifically the request
in the prayer of this petition, I want to say for the record, Mr. Speaker, that
I do support the proposition of people bringing forward petitions and I commend
the people in the Winterton - Jamestown area of the Burin Peninsula for having
this petition prepared and brought forward, and I can assure them that to the
best of this government's ability, we will address their need in the context of
all of the needs of the Province and on a basis that will be prioritized in a
reasonable fashion and within the resources that we have in future years we will
do what we can for their situation.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, Order No. 3, Concurrence Motions
and in particular Order 3 (
b) Resource Committee, and I understand the Chairman
for that is the Member for Labrador West.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. CANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. CANNING: I hear the hon. gentleman across the way
saying he is not happy with me in Labrador West. I would point out that I
understand the Conservatives have asked a person from Ottawa to travel to
Labrador to try to be the member. Usually we send somebody from Labrador to be
the Member in the House of Commons or the Legislature. We rarely send somebody
from Ottawa in to become the member. I would say return to sender, Mr. Speaker.
An individual who could not win the nomination in Ottawa,
could not win the nomination in Labrador, only that there were no Tories who
would stand for election in Labrador on behalf of the party. I would say return
to sender. The members across the way know full well what I speak of.
I stand today to acknowledge the Committee that I chaired,
the Resource Committee. The Resource Committee of this House reviews the
Estimates for several departments, among which we find Fisheries and
Aquaculture, Forest Resources and Agrifioods, Tourism, Culture and Recreation,
Industry, Trade and Technology, Mines and Energy, Development and Rural Renewal.
I want to acknowledge the work of the Committee members, in
particular the co-chair, the Member for Baie Verte; the members for Humber
Valley, Humber East, Grand Falls - Buchans, Bonavista South, and St. John's
South. Throughout the debate it was I must say very interesting. The ministers
brought along their officials, gave a wide-ranging review of that which they
have chosen for the mandate for their departments, that which they wish to
achieve. Very interesting. There were quite a few questions raised in particular
from members of the Committee, and there were some extraordinary answers given.
I want to look at some of the reasons why this particular
government has chosen to do the things it has done, and what is it Her Majesty's
Loyal Opposition would have preferred the government to do, or would have done
itself had it been the government. In the last election, members will recall
that there was a document that was named The Right Agenda... for the People ,
in which they talked about governing involves making choices. That is so very
true. It is indeed a matter of making choices, often difficult choices, and
those are exactly the words in their document, on page 5: "Often, these choices
are difficult."
Fundamentally, this government has moved in a direction to
ensure that we have a balanced budget, but at the same time we are able to
provide the kinds of needs for our people, and in particular for the Resource
Committee it was important that we hear the general view of the ministers of the
resource departments, because they will fundamentally drive this Province in the
future.
The Conservative Party during the last election talked about
several things that it had felt should be done. I would just ask them in terms
of - I notice on its page 11, "Fiscal Responsibility," it talked about "set
priorities for program delivery and reduce spending on expendable and
low-priority programs." It would be very interesting and indeed useful if the
Opposition could tell us which programs of government it felt are low-priority
programs, and how it is that it would have achieved the balanced budget.
Because in the last election the Opposition did indeed say to
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that it too would understand the fiscal
difficulties and challenges of the Province, and it committed to a balanced
budget in four years. It would be very useful during this debate if it could
tell us how it would have balanced the budget, how it would have set growth and
spending priorities, and in fact which programs they felt were low-priority
programs.
During the whole of the Resource Committee hearings, as I
said, the ministers provided very useful information. There were great exchanges
of ideas and information as to how we could generate more export opportunities
for our forestry, for our mining opportunities, and how we could create more
growth in the mines through secondary and tertiary development of our resources,
and how it is that we can achieve more benefit from our oil and gas that is on
the verge of having a major economic impact on this Province.
I would move Concurrence with the Committee report. I brought
forward the Committee report last Thursday, I believe. The members of the
Committee passed the expenditures without any change, and I would now move the
concurrence of that report.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I
certainly would like to rise today and make a few comments on our debates with
the Resource Committee, of course referring to mining, forestry, agrifoods,
fisheries, energy, tourism, and rural renewal, R2 D2.
Mr. Speaker, we did have some very interesting conversations
during those estimates debates. It is good to have the ministers and their
officials in front of you to ask them some questions that are pertinent to those
particular portfolios. Of course, you ask mostly for information purposes, to
try to find out where the information is. You save your better questions for the
House of Assembly. You don't ask too many damning questions in those estimates,
but it gives you the chance to discuss a little bit informally with the minister
and her officials to see where the department's priorities are in spending, how
they break down their spending, and so on. That is what the estimates are all
about.
There were some interesting comments made throughout and I am
going to touch on some of those, but first of all I want to make a comment on
the Chairman's opening remarks in talking about the agenda, and the `right
agenda', whatever that was during the last election.
I am just going to remind the member, and anybody else in the
House today who cares to listen, because I want to make it known from my seat
here in this House of Assembly that when I asked the questions that I asked
today, that comes from a long time but specifically over the last two weeks of
time in my district. I am simply saying to the Member for Labrador West that
rural Newfoundland people are hurting right now and they need some answers. They
need to see something physical happen.
Mr. Speaker, I am working with the Minister of Fisheries and
Aquaculture and the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology and the Minister
of Development and Rural Renewal on a positive project for my district, and I
will continue to do that anytime, if it means one job or if it means 100 jobs,
and I will work as hard as I can, and I know the ministers will work as hard as
they can to ensure that this project comes through and we put people to work. I
have no problem saying that, and I would even go to commend any government or
minister who is going to help bring that through, because what we need to see in
this Province is something physical. We don't need the rhetoric or anything - we
need to see something physical - so I will work with any minister when we are
talking about putting jobs out there.
Elections and party politics and all of that stuff has its
place. Sometimes it has too much of a place, I think, instead of dealing with
the real issues and the real world. It is really tough on rural members, and
they are the ones I want to talk to today, who have been out there for the last
two, three, or four weeks in the district, and they think you are making up
stories when you come in. I actually was stopped on the way to a protest that I
was asked to go to, and got caught up in another protest on the way to it, from
school closures to bad roads to hospitals and so on.
I was in Port aux Basques. The media had different reports,
but there were at least 2,000 people there, if not 2,500. I think the Member for
Burgeo and LaPoile can verify those numbers. That is incredible, that 2,000
people would come out to a public meeting to speak on one issue.
Mr. Speaker, I think the member could also tell you that
these concerns were legitimate. There were no party lines there that night, I
can tell you that. Person after person got up, no matter what political stripe
they had. As far as I found out, anyway, there was no political stripe in that
crowd because they were just upset with the issue, genuinely upset with the
issue.
AN HON. MEMBER: And the member.
MR. SHELLEY: No.
In defense of the Member for Burgeo and LaPoile right now,
the federal member, the great candidate - you talk about the candidate we got
flown in from Ottawa, well I would say, and I wouldn't doubt that the Member for
Burgeo and LaPoile would agree with me, that the MP from LaPoile - the current
member from Burin - St. George did no favours for the Member for Burgeo and
LaPoile. As a matter of fact, I will go so far as to say in this House today
that I felt bad for the Member for Burgeo and LaPoile. What the federal member
did, and it was as blatant and plain as the nose on your face, was lay all of
the blame over on the provincial member. The fact that the health care crisis
was in this Province and in his particular riding was all because of the
provincial member. It had nothing to do with the federal member. He said: We
didn't cut on health care.
The federal member got up on that stage, with some 2,000
people in that auditorium with an election call, and laid full blame on the
Member for LaPoile.
Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the Member for LaPoile,
I am going to tell you that I felt bad for that member that night. I have even
said it to his official who was sitting next to me. I could not believe the
current federal member got up, he was like, what is his name, that washed his
hands of everything?
MR. SULLIVAN: Pontius Pilot.
MR. SHELLEY: Pontius Pilot, he was just like Pontius
Pilot, I am washing my hands of it. I am with the federal government in Ottawa,
but it was all the doings of the provincial member.
MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).
MR. SHELLEY: Now, Mr. Speaker, I totally disagree with
that federal member. It was not to do with the member from LaPoile. Yes, the
member from LaPoile has to stand in this House and of course meet with his
colleagues and put forward the situation with health care in his district, but
the federal member got up and totally washed his hands of it and laid the blame
entirely in the lap of the provincial member, the member from LaPoile.
I am going to tell you that that federal member did himself
no favours in Port aux Basque. When he could stand there and say, well Ottawa
did not cut, we only cut $9 million, it was not us, he said, we gave the
provincial government all they needed. It was the provincial government who left
out the South West corner of this Province. That is what he said, Mr. Speaker.
The truth is that the root of the problem, I am certainly not
defending the member from LaPoile, he did not need me to defend him, but we all
know that the root of the problem of the health care situation, crisis or
problem, which ever way you want to state it, lies solely in Ottawa, Mr.
Speaker. The drastic cuts in transfer payments in this Province in the last two
years, it is a fact, in the last two years the transfer cuts decrease lies in
Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. That is where it comes from.
I would like to be able to turn around today and say, it is
the Premier and the provincial government on that side, that it is mainly their
fault, but the truth is, the root of the problem, where the problem started and
with respect to the member from LaPoile who had it all slapped on his lap in
Port aux Basque in front of 2000 people in his district. It was not right, Mr.
Speaker. I am telling you right now.
MR. SULLIVAN: The Premier was a part of that process.
MR. SHELLEY: Now as far as laying blame or anything, yes
we can talk about the Premier was once the federal member and your cousin
colleagues in Ottawa, we can use all of that rhetoric, but the truth is, the
federal member for Burin-St. George's laid the entire blame back on the
provincial member and it was not right, it was not fair to the member.
Having said that, the provincial member, yes and the
government of the day here in this Province and so on, should have a lot more to
say when the transfer payments are decreased by so much, I can say that, but
with a federal election in the air, it seems like everybody wants to use that in
this House of Assembly.
Mr. Speaker, I do not remember or I do not recall or maybe I
just miss to much news, but I do not remember to many federal MP's standing up
in the last two years to say, Newfoundland is going to be - I do not know the
right word, if I can use it is the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker. The seven
Liberal MP's out of Newfoundland, how much have they said in the last two of
three years with the drastic cuts in transfer payments, that is not only
devastating health care in this Province, it is exactly what we see in plain
truth out in this Province now, roads not being done, infrastructure money
decreased. Everything you can name all comes from the root of the problem in
Ottawa.
Yes, the blame has to go to the provincial government or the
government of the day whoever they might be, there is no doubt about that, but
the silence of the lambs was one term used, of the seven members, every now and
then the member from Gander-Grand Falls riding, Mr. Baker, every three or four
months Mr. Baker takes on issues, jumps up and he is the champion of the people
again and he goes away for another three or four months and waits for an issue.
Of course, it just happens to be a federal election and we are hearing him quite
a bit lately and we also hear a lot from the - just think about it, when was the
last time you heard Roger Simmons, the MP from Burin-St. George's? When was the
last time you heard him in the news or heard him make a comment about anything?
When is the last time you heard him?
MR. TULK: Heard who in the news?
MR. SHELLEY: I say to the Government House Leader today -
Roger Simmons, and my comment today and why I started this conversation because
I was there in Port aux Basque in that stadium with 2000 to 2500 people and the
member from LaPoile sitting on the stage and here was the federal member taking
the whole thing and saying wash my hands from it - Pontius Pilot, it was the
federal member, he said it right on the stage and got booed, booed from the time
he walked in until he walked out and the provincial member from LaPoile, it was
all his fault. He said, I do not know what happened to all the funding that came
into the Province, I do not know why it did not get to the South West Coast of
this Province.
Mr. Speaker, let me give you just a little example of the
real world that was out in Port aux Basque when I was out there on Monday. A
real example, Mr. Speaker, I spoke with a doctor in that community who had
helped organize this particular meeting and that day, from eight o'clock in the
morning and right on through the meeting that night, he had seen 147 patients.
One hundred and forty seven patients seen by one doctor, in one day, in Port aux
Basques.
Now, Mr. Speaker, we get back up now and we have a change in
ministers and so on. Of course we are not going to use crisis we are going to
use problem. Okay, well let's say it is a big problem. It's a huge problem. One
doctor seen 147 patients. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, and the Member for
LaPoile knows, that doctor who helped organize this meeting was so busy he did
not even make the meeting. My colleague from Conception Bay South can confirm
that and I am sure the member could. That is the reality. We are not here
dramatizing this today. We sat there with those people and that doctor in his
office - I spoke with the girl behind the counter who had 147 appointments for
one doctor in a day. They were lined up. They filled his office which seats
about forty people. The hallway was full outside past the pharmacy office and
there were people actually in the street. There was a lineup like there was a
sale on or something. There was a lineup to see the doctor.
Here we go to the stadium that night with that many people
there, Mr. Speaker, and the federal member waltzed in as cool as could be,
walked up on the stage and said: I can't believe it. I can't believe what is
going on in Port aux Basques and South West Newfoundland. Roger Simmons, I can't
believe what he said. He said: We gave money to this Province and I am going to
be checking out where all the money went to in this Province that we sent down
from Ottawa. Imagine! It was almost laughable, Mr. Speaker. It was a joke and
the Member for Conception Bay South or the Member for LaPoile, any member of the
staff or the member that was there can confirm that what I am telling you is
true, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, and the bottom line in this, Mr. Speaker - I am sure
this is not an eye opener for anybody or any shock but I can tell you that
anybody who was out to their district in the last few days, the last thing they
want to see now is another election, Mr. Speaker. They are so sick and fed up
with it - not for Tories, Liberals, NDP, Reform or anybody, they are so fed up,
Mr. Speaker, and disillusioned. I am still saying in this House today - I am
certainly not defending the government, Mr. Speaker, but I will say that the
root of this problem in the last three years in this Province with health care,
education, roads and everything else lies with the federal government in Ottawa.
That is where it started - can I use lies in the House? - lies with the federal
government in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker.
MR. FLIGHT: For the next month.
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, for the next month. The Member for
Windsor -Springdale knows the political game very well and you are probably
right. The rhetoric, the money you use in campaigning and the brainwashing that
goes on during a federal election, I would not doubt it. I would not doubt that,
I say to the member, but what I am saying to you is that - and I think the
member would agree with me - forget who is going to win the election or who is
going to win what. I think the member, because he is a rural Newfoundland member
like I am, people in rural Newfoundland are disgusted, fed up and sick of it,
that's what they are. When you cannot get into a hospital bed - all I am saying,
Mr. Speaker, is that the provincial government of the day, whoever they are and
whoever wins the federal election on June 2 better start going out and pounding
on somebody's door and saying we have had enough. We have had our share of it
because the truth is the federal cuts out of Ottawa, they trickle down through,
Mr. Speaker. Ontario feels it a little bit, Quebec feels it a little bit, Nova
Scotia even feels it a bit more and Newfoundland feels it. In St. John's, Gander
and Corner Brook, they feel it a bit but, Mr. Speaker, the people in this
Province were hit hardest. There is no doubt in my mind that the people hit
hardest is small town Newfoundland. Communities with 300, 400 and 500 people.
They are the ones that have been hit the hardest out of these cuts and I don't
care which party is in Ottawa. The federal transfer payments are the sole effect
on rural Newfoundland. It has gone too far.
This last week-and-a-half, I have to tell you as I go out
around the district and meet with this group and that group, they look at you
and feel all politicians have lost credibility right across the Province, no
matter what party you are with. They are disillusioned and for good reason, Mr.
Speaker. They see their homes that they paid for and they see when they have to
bring their mother to a hospital instead of driving for twenty minutes to go to
Baie Verte, they say: Sorry we are a bit full. You are going to have to drive
for two hours to Corner Brook. Now, Mr. Speaker, that is not bad. So they accept
that. They said okay, we will go to Corner Brook. So they get into Corner Brook
and Corner Brook says: we're full, we can't handle you. I was told by a minister
here two years ago: Now listen, yes we are going to cut Baie Verte hospital a
little bit. So we sat back, sucked it in and accepted it. Springdale had the
same thing there: Okay we will accept that. We have to have some cutbacks. But
Corner Brook and Grand Falls, which are two hours away from you: Don't worry, we
will upgrade those people so they can take care of the overflow. What happened?
They not only downgraded Baie Verte and Springdale, Mr. Speaker, they downgraded
Corner Brook and Grand Falls.
So the woman called me the other day - and like the Member
for Conception Bay South said today, a woman is waiting for eleven months for a
mammogram. February, and she had to wait until next January.
I walked into the hospital in Baie Verte three or four weeks
ago and watched the nurse. I stood by the nurse. I was going to say hello to her
right away but instead I stopped and just watched her for about five minutes.
That nurse, whom I know, had three elderly patients in the room in the chronic
care unit. She went from bed to bed giving a mouthful of food to each patient.
She would feed a mouthful and go to the next bed, feed a mouthful, go to the
next bed and do the same thing.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not know how you are going to define
`crisis' or `problem' or whatever you want to call it. I do not care what you
call it, but it has to be addressed, and it must be addressed by a Provincial
Government here that goes to Ottawa and says: We have had enough, we have had
our share, we have tightened our belts and so on.
Let me give you a little analogy that I have used in the last
couple of days. There are people in this Province who are going through a lot of
pain. I do not think anybody would dispute that people are going through a lot
of pain in this Province right now. Do you know what people say to me? They say:
I do not mind the pain if the problem is going to be solved. The analogy I use
is it is like going to a dentist. You do not mind going to a dentist with pain
in your tooth, and you do not mind the pain of the tooth being pulled - which is
the thing most dreaded by most people, your tooth being pulled. You do not mind
your tooth being pulled if you know that the toothache is going to be gone
afterwards.
The analogy used by somebody in my district, and I think it
was perfect, is that they do not mind the pain, they do not mind tightening the
belt, they do not mind the cutbacks in this and that and whatever, as long as
they know that the pain is going to be gone afterwards. What they need to see
now, and I have said it in the House in the last two days - I do not know how
long the House is going to remain open - I am going to tell you, they need to
see something concrete.
I hope that the project in Baie Verte goes, I think it will,
the tannery, despite some of the media reports and how they tried to damp it
down. The last thing I want to do this weekend when I go home again for the
third week in a row, is go through protest lines. It is no advantage to me. I do
not want them out there. I want them to go home saying: Okay, we are satisfied,
we see a commitment coming, we are happy now. I talked to the Minister of Works,
Services and Transportation. I am not excited about going home this weekend and
going through a protest line on the road again. I would rather see them say: Go
home.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SHELLEY: I am going to answer the member. Seeing as
he cannot stand on his feet, I will make sure I reiterate it here in Hansard so
that he understands what he is saying. The Member for Windsor - Springdale just
asked me: Why are you going to protests outside the district? I am looking for
protest.
Mr. Speaker, if the member would come up to my office, I will
give him transcripts and letters and memos from Port aux Basques, from the
Interfaith Home in Mr. Dicks' district, where they have asked me - they said: We
heard you speak up and say something on a certain issue. Would you mind coming
to our public forums? I said: Well, I am pretty busy; I have some things - as
long as I can cover the protests in my own district, I will get there. That was
my response.
That is why. I was asked to go there, simple as that. As a
matter of fact, to let the Member for Windsor - Springdale know, I have turned
down places to go because I have so much going on in my own district. I would
like to go tomorrow -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. SHELLEY: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
AN HON. MEMBER: He will have time.
MR. TULK: Yes, he will get back.
Mr. Speaker, I want to speak to this motion, this Committee
report. Before I do, I would like to move that this House not adjourn at 5:00
p.m., and that we would break for supper at 6:00 p.m. until 6:30 p.m. I have an
agreement with the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the House not
adjourn at 5:00 p.m. All those in favour.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye!
MR. SPEAKER: Against.
AN HON. MEMBER: Nay!
MR. SPEAKER: Carried.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker -
MR. FITZGERALD: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Well, 6:00 p.m., I thought you would like the
good news, the NTV stuff, 6:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to the Concurrence Motion
to this Resource Committee report. I would like to start off, first of all, by
thanking the members of the Committee for my own Department of Forest Resources
and Agrifoods. I noted that the Member for Baie Verte could not make it, but
that is understandable. I guess he was out doing his bit for his constituents
and his party, as he is supposed to do as a member of this House.
I do want to congratulate the Member for Bonavista South on
the types of questions, the very knowledgeable questions, that he asked
concerning the Estimates Committee of the Department of Forestry Resource and
Agrifoods. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I would go so far as to advise the
Leader of the Opposition that I think he should replace his critic and make this
gentleman up here from Bonavista South -
AN HON. MEMBER: He is Agrifoods shadow.
MR. TULK: Yes, I know he is Agrifoods, but he should also
take over the Forestry portfolio.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Now, you already paid me more than that, so put
it back in your pocket.
Mr. Speaker, we talked about the efforts that the department
is making in silviculture, and I advised the hon. gentleman in the Estimates
Committee that indeed, while we were spending a little less of provincial
taxpayers' dollars, we were covering more acreage in the Province as a result of
the Premier's intervention with Doug Young last year in drawing up a (inaudible)
contract for us.
Mr. Speaker, we look forward to this year - the spray
program: as I informed the hon. gentleman, there is going to be a spray program,
but it is going to be practically non-existent and that had to do, of course,
with the downturn in accounts for the - not with regard to government wanting to
expend money, but it had to do with the amount of spraying that was necessary as
opposed to what we spent last year, not nearly as much.
Mr. Speaker, I listened with some interest to my critic from
Baie Verte, to his dissertation on people who care about rural Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, I heard him talk about one, Roger Simmons, who
is running for the Liberals in a federal district; I heard him talk about a
person by the name of, I believe, Mr. Byrne - I believe he did. I remember
distinctly hearing him talk about Roger Simmons walking in and not speaking up
for Newfoundland and Labrador; not speaking up for this Province. I distinctly
heard the Member for Baie Verte -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Well, it is just Mr. Simmons. Now, Mr. Speaker,
that is a queer thing; that is kind of a queer thing coming from that Party over
there. They are interested in having federal members in this Province who care
about rural Newfoundland. Now, I want everybody to know in this Legislature, and
I want it to go on the record, that the PC Party of Newfoundland and Labrador is
extremely concerned that the people who go to Ottawa from this Province look
after rural Newfoundland and are familiar with rural Newfoundland and know what
the ways of rural Newfoundlanders are.
Now, Mr. Speaker -
AN HON. MEMBER: What is his name?
MR. TULK: Yes, what is his name? We are usually used in
this Province to at least putting forward candidates who come from Newfoundland,
who know Newfoundland, who have the interest of Newfoundland at heart, we
usually take them from down here and send them upalong. In this case, what the
PC Party of Newfoundland and Labrador - no, that might be wrong -
MR. FITZGERALD: No, you are wrong there.
MR. TULK: I think it might be the federal PC Party
because the Opposition House Leader says he has not even been consulted on it,
they do not even talk to him. They do not even talk to him up in Ottawa about
the candidate who is going up for rural Newfoundland to represent this Province.
Across the House just now he said: Who is he? We are talking about the member,
the PC candidate in Labrador.
MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Oh, yes.
MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Oh, yes. They have a fellow by the name of -
What is his name?
MR. SULLIVAN: General Patten.
MR. TULK: A fellow by the name of Patten, who was the
aide to Jean Charst.
AN HON. MEMBER: The aide to whom?
MR. TULK: J.C. - Jean Charst, not Jean Chrtien.
He ran for a federal nomination in Ottawa.
AN HON. MEMBER: Did he win?
MR. TULK: Oh, no. Win? He was rejected by the people in
Ottawa, the very place where he was working, the very place in which he was a
candidate. They ran him up there like a pair of old, worn out socks. They said:
we cannot find anybody to run in Labrador so we will send him off down there.
Now, Mr. Speaker, that comes from a Party that says: We want
the best candidates for Newfoundland and Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, they must
be saying, Well, we do not want the best candidates for Labrador, we just want
the best candidates for Newfoundland.
AN HON. MEMBER: Who is it, anyway, `Beaton'?
MR. TULK: His name is - is it Mike Patten? I have a note
here, a real, old Labradorian; he failed to get the Tory nomination in Ottawa.
He was parachuted into Labrador as the Party's candidate, Mike Patten, 34 years
old, a resident of Napean. And the Leader here in Newfoundland, I say to the
Minister of Justice, confessed across the House just now, that he does not even
know who they are sending down here.
MR. DECKER: Where is he from?
MR. TULK: From Ottawa, upalong.
MR. DECKER: What is Napean, you said?
MR. TULK: Napean, that is in Ottawa.
MR. DECKER: Is that in Labrador?
MR. TULK: No, not in Labrador. They could not find a
candidate in Labrador. They had to go off to Ottawa and bring down one.
Well, as the Member for Labrador West said, I think the
people of Labrador are going to send back a little note attached to him, `return
to sender' in Ottawa.
Mr. Speaker, that is the party -
MR. DECKER: `Beaton', that is not a parachute; that is a
UFO.
MR. TULK: Yes, you talk about being parachuted in, that
is not a parachute; that is a UFO, an unidentified flying object. He is passing
over Labrador for a few days on his way back to Ottawa.
AN HON. MEMBER: That is an insult to this Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. TULK: Let me get to that one.
The hon. gentleman from Baie Verte was concerned about seeing
that Newfoundland was represented very well in Ottawa.
Now, Mr. Speaker, one, George Baker, has represented Gander -
Grand Falls; Gander - Twillingate; Gander - Bonavista, ever since there was a
district, and almost ever since there was a George Baker he has represented that
area. They want to take him out, too, so where did they go for their heavyweight
candidate for that, to take him out? Where did they go for a heavyweight
candidate to take out George Baker?
AN HON. MEMBER: Nova Scotia.
MR. TULK: The Nova Scotia Legislature. I do not know why
they do not have one of the Pages in this House run against him. I do not know
why they do not have one of the Pages in this House to represent them. Instead
of that, no, Sir, they go off to the Nova Scotia Legislature and find a
candidate for Gander - Grand Falls.
Mr. Speaker, that is what the hon. gentleman on the other
side of the House, when he stands up and talks about caring for rural
Newfoundland, is talking about. Parachute in a candidate for Labrador from
Ottawa.
MR. EFFORD: What?
MR. TULK: Oh, yes.
I have to repeat the story for you. You will get a great kick
out of it. The candidate that they finally decided on to run in Labrador against
Lawrence O'Brien is Mike Patten. Now, does Mike Patten come from Port de Grave?
MR. EFFORD: No, Sir.
MR. TULK: No. Does he come from Hermitage? No. Where does
the hon. gentleman think he comes from?
MR. EFFORD: Probably somewhere on the mainland.
MR. TULK: Ottawa.
I say to the hon. gentleman, those are the people they have
sent... And do you know what else? Is said it to the Leader of the Opposition
across the House, and do you know what he replied?
MR. EFFORD: What?
MR. TULK: Who is he?
He did not even know him. They do not even call down here -
Jean Charst does not even see fit to call the Leader of the Opposition in
Newfoundland to ask: Do you think we should send this fellow down? Do you think
we should send down this UFO from Ottawa? Do you think we should send him down
there to represent this party? No, not the chance. Jean Charst sends them in
first and we have to tell the Leader of the Opposition that they are here.
Mr. Speaker, that is the party, I say to the hon. gentleman,
that is the organization that he represents in this House when he stands up and
criticizes the seven Liberal members in Ottawa. Those are the kinds of people,
those are the candidates, that is the organization that he is representing, and
then to take on George Baker. You heard this -
MR. EFFORD: No.
MR. TULK: To take on George Baker -
AN HON. MEMBER: George is going to lose.
MR. TULK: Oh, yes, he is in jeopardy. To take on George
Baker. Who do you think he is?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. TULK: Newfoundlander? Yes, he is a Newfoundlander.
MR. EFFORD: I thought he was from Nova Scotia.
MR. TULK: He is a Page in the Nova Scotia Legislature.
AN HON. MEMBER: He is from Newfoundland.
MR. EFFORD: You are joking!
MR. TULK: Oh yes, he is from Newfoundland - yes, from
Grand Falls. When was the last time, I wonder, he saw Grand Falls. Summer
holidays.
MR. EFFORD: Running him against George Baker is the same
as running Bob French against me out in my district.
MR. TULK: No, I say to the member. I say to the Member
for Port de Grave that even Bob French would do better against you than this
fellow is going to do against Baker.
MR. EFFORD: I doubt it.
MR. TULK: Oh yes, no joke about that. Mr. Speaker, I have
to say to the hon. member, I like him. I think he is a good young
Newfoundlander. I think, in spite of the fact that he looks like a certain
character in the cartoons who tells his horse to: `Whoa, pony! Whoa, horsey!' he
is a good Newfoundlander.
AN HON. MEMBER: Who?
MR. TULK: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte - a good
Newfoundlander. But I say to him, before he stands up to criticize people who
have been trying to do their best in Ottawa, good Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians who have been doing their best in Ottawa, he should clean his own
house.
He should look inward and he should say: Has my party done
what it should do? Should I perhaps be criticizing my own party? Should I be
looking inward? Should I be trying to build my own organization so that we get
good candidates to run against the likes of Baker and Simmons? Because,
otherwise, I say to him, Mr. Speaker, that George Baker and Roger Simmons and
every other Liberal member in this Province, unless they can do better, I say to
him that they will be there for years to come, and so they should, because, in
my opinion, they are doing a good job. Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to speak on behalf of the Resource Committee of
which I was a member. I have to concur with the Member for St. John's South, it
was a very good committee. It was not a waste of time, I say to members. The
questions were asked and when the information was gotten, then the meetings were
over, and that is the way it should be. It was not one of those committees where
you dragged it out just for the sake of asking questions, and you were looking
at the clock.
The ministers were co-operative and provided the answers, I
suppose, for the most part, to the questions that were asked. The Chairman of
the Committee spent probably too much time praising the ministers. It is obvious
he was trying to, I suppose, make an impression, because he wanted to - some day
he would like to be in Cabinet, and I guess he figures that those people will
put forward a little shot in the arm for him, or give him a boost when they are
talking to the Premier. The other Committee members asked questions as well and
took part, as everybody should.
The old fat cat of the Liberal Party got up and talked about
members in the federal election, and what members had a chance at winning, and
what members did not have a chance. I asked him what chance he gave the Member
for St. John's East in the last federal election. This is a prime example of
what can happen in an election. You do not have to be a big name, you do not
have to be a star. Once that tide starts to turn, funny things can happen.
Whether the person is running for the PC Party in Labrador is the right person
or not, that is up to him to decide. We are living in a democratic country. He
has as much right to run as anybody else. The people will go out and they will
either vote for him or they will vote against him.
I will tell you one thing right here in this House right now.
Roger Simmons will not be going back to Ottawa again unless he pays his own way.
I am willing to bet on that. He is one member who will not be sitting in the
House of Commons when it reconvenes after this election, and he does not deserve
to go back, I say to members opposite, and if they spoke truthfully and if they
spoke sincerely they would tell the same story. The member from LaPoile would
probably say the same thing and the member from Port au Port, you watch them
when they go out to vote, you might be surprised how they vote because I am sure
that some of those people know full well the representation that this particular
member has given to his district.
You cannot run and hide I say to members opposite. You have
to go back and face the electors, you have to go back and face the people that
elected you, you have to dance with the crowd that brought you, as the member
for Conception Bay South says so often here in this House. Once you stop doing
that, you can see what happens. You can see what happened to the member from
Eagle River when he stood so often in this legislature and talked about how
proud he was to be a Canadian and how proud he was to be a Liberal, but he
forgot one thing, he forgot to talk about how proud he was and how proud he
should have been and the commitment that he owed to the people that provided him
the opportunity to come here and serve. He did not do that, but they remembered
and they came out and did something that nobody else would have predicted, if
somebody in this