VOL. 3 THIRD SESSIO~J OF THE THIRTY-NINTH GENERAL ASSEHBLY OF NE1!'7FOUNDLAND PRELHUNARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSE~"BLY FOR THE PFRIOD: 3:00 P.m. - 6:00 P.m. TUESDAY, MARCH 27, 1984 }m. 11

March 27, 1984 The House·met at 3:00p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 393 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the recent report of the Royal Commission on Hospital and Nursing Home Costs has highlighted the need for reduction in the cost of health services.

The Commission recommended that provincial health policy be formulated to encourage development of health services on the basis of five major modes, one of them being home support or home care services. In keeping with this recom­ mendation and the policies of the Departments of Health and Finance, it has been decided to provide a retail sales tax exemption for home health care equipment and supplies - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: - prosthetic appliances and equipment designed solely for the use of blind persons, purchased by individuals. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR.

COLLINS: Today's changing technology has provided the means for many individuals to manage and control various diseases in the home environment, thus decreasing the need for medical attention and hospitali­ zation. These exemptions will provide a measure of relief 1056

March 27, 1984 DR. COLLINS: such equipment. Tape 393 EC - 2 to those individuals using Examples of the types of equipment and supplies being exempted are: kidney dialysis machines, home glucose monitoring .system used by diabetics, colostomy sets and urinary mAnagement supplies. A complete list of the items exempted is ·being prepared by the Department of Finance for distribution to the suppliers of these products. A second area of our tax structure which has been under review in recent months has been tobacco tax.

Hy recent 3udget Speech announced a tax reauction for cigarettes sold in zones that border the Province of Quebec. Also, the tobacco tax system in this Province has been under .the ad valorem system since 1981, a system which automatically increases the tobacco tax as the retail price of tobacco increases. It has been decided to eliminate the ad valorem system as it applies to cigarettes and tobacco and to replace it with fixed unit rates. These rates will be the rates currently in effect which are as follows: cigarettes, 4.78 cents per cigarette1 tobacco, 1.32 cents per gram. as of April 1, 1984. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : DR. COLLINS: MR. HODDER: These measures will take effect Hear, hear! A great advance! Mr. Speaker. 1057

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 394 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): au Port. MR.HODDER: The han. member for Port Mr.Speaker, as to the first measure that the minister just announced,. that is fine with us. We are glad to see him do it, we are glad to see anything that helps the people in nursing homes · in this Province,or any reduction of sales tax to the needy. As far as the second one is concerned, Mr.Spe~ker, it is not going to do very much for anybody, Why not do it on the gasoline tax? Now that would be a significant reduction. It would be a stimulus to the economy, it would help consumer spending.

As we all know,the ad valorem system is in use as far as gasoline taxation is concerned• The second one will mean very little to the people of this Province but the change of the ad valorem system as far as gasoline is concerned would be very meaningful. MR. SPEAKER: 'Ihe hen. Mmister of the EnVironment. MR. ANDREWS: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.NEARY: It is no harm to say that when you have a mild Winter the maggots come out early. r-m.. BAIRD: You should know, you are out. MR.ANDREWS: You are out. You have been out all Winter-to lunch. Mr.

Speaker, today I would like to address the House of Assembly on the subject of acid rain and to provide an update to members of the House on some of the important events on the national and even the international scene, which hopefully will curb this major environmental problem. 1058

March 27 , 1984 MR.ANDREWS : should remind Tape No . 394 ah-2 By way of background, I hon. members that New -foundland is a receptor and not a contributor to the problem of acid rain. Further,our position at the Eastern extremity of North America plabes us in the path of aci'dic pollution wl;lich moves from West to East and can travel hundreds and even thousands of kilometers. I would also like to remind han. members of the highly sensitive nature of this Province's soils and surface waters, which have little capacity to resist an increasing acidic onslaught.

However, at present my depa::rtment's assessment of the situation indicates that we have suffered marginal acidification to our surface waters in localized areas on the South Coast, and Central Newfoundland areas around Red Indian Lake. This is indeed a fortunate situation compared with the extensive damage to lakes in Southern Ontario and Q"uebec, the New England States and even to salmon streams in Nova Scotia. To help put his in perspective, the accepted target to protect all but the most sensitive surface waters is a wet sulphate eesposition amount 1059

.. March 27, 1984 Tape 395 EC - 1 MR. ANDREWS : of twenty kilograms sulphate per hectare per year. At present the highest annual deposition in this Province is nineteen to twenty kilograms · per hectare per year on the South Coast and near Red Indian Lake. Initially my departrnen~ 's efforts have been focussed on assessing how much acid rain was reaching our Province and what damage it was doing ..

In the past year this focus has changed and I have become involved in efforts at the provincial and the federal-provincial and in more recent weeks at the international level to help control acid rain at the source of emissions. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to briefly ou~line some of the significant events of the past year or so relating to the development of a strategy to abate acid rain pollu­ tion by decreasing the emissions of sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxide.

In May, 1983 I met with my provincial colleagues from Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba to formulate an abatement strategy. At this meeting it was agreed to aim for a goal of achieving a twenty kilogram of wet sulphate per hectare per year deposition level throughout Eastern Canada. ·It was agreed that the most cost effective approach would be used and 1further, it was acknowledged that even with this massive Canadian reductions we would not achieve this goal without an equal commitment from our Southern neighbours, and that of course, is mainly the United States.

In June, 1983 my provincial colleagues and I met with the hon. John Roberts, 1060

March 27, 1984 Tape 395 EC - 2 MR. ANDREWS: then the Environment Minister for Canada, to outline the provincial position regarding abatement strategies. As a result of this meeting it was agreed that Environment Ministers would meet on a regular basis to finalize an abatement package which would be recommended by a committee of technical officials. I~ September, 1983, during the annual meeting of the Canadian Council of Resource and Environment Ministers, held in Fredericton, an abatement agreement was achieved which would have permitted the hon.

Charles Caccia, then and still the Minister of Environment Canada, to negotiate a final abatement with his U.S. counterpart. Subsequently, as we know, the United States has changed their position and decided that they were not prepared to reduce their emissions at that point in time. On March 6, 1984, at a meeting of the Ministerial Management Board on Acid Rain, attended by the federal government and the governments of eight provinces, it was agreed that all those agencies concerned would strive towards achieving a reduction in sulphur dioxide emissions by 50 per cent by 1994. This would involve significant 1061

March 27, 1984, Tape 396, Page 1 -- apb MR. ANDREWS: reductions by major Canadian sources, including the smelters and large thermal powered electric generating units. However, Newfoundland would not be required to make significant reductions because of our smali emission base. However, we will be net beneficiaries ' of this programme, and it will offer further protection to our environment. This agreement is also seen as a bold gesture to the Unites States, showing them that we are concerned about acid rain and are prepared to initiate major action to try to stop its damaging effects.

At this meeting, for the first time, emphasis also shifted noticeably - Mr. Speaker, this is very important - from the discussion of damage to surface waters and inland fisheries, to the damage suffered by forests. New evidence has come to light over the past year, particularly in Europe, of major damage to forests caused by acid rain. It is also being proposed by some that acid rain is weakening the forests' natural resistance to such pests as the spruce budworm. In some areas of Germany, Mr. Speaker, up to one third of all the trees are showing significant acid rain related damage. The forest in Germany, Mr.

Speaker, one-third is dead or dying from acid rain. On march 20th, just recently, and the 2lst. 1 I attended the Canadian/European Ministerial Conference on acid rain. This Conference was attended by Environment Ministers from Finalnd, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Federal Republic of Germany, the the Netherlands, France, Switzerland and Austria, the Canadian Evironment Minister and the Environment Ministers from all ten provinces. This Conference provided an excellent exchange of information on acid rain effects, 1062

March 27, ]984, Tape 396, Page 2 -- apb MR. ANDREWS : policies and strategies. A final declaration arising from "this Conferenc e, signed by all ten nations, committed these natio ns to at least a 30 per cent reduction in sulphur dioxide emissions by ]993 , called for progress in reducing the emissions of oxides of nitrogen and i tvited other nations to join this club that we named 'The 30 Pe r Cent Club' . Of interest at this Conference was the level of European concern, especially for thier forest resources and , given the importance that the forests play in our economy, we cannot but sha re this vital concern.

Mr . Speaker, I trust this brief outlin e conveys to the hon. members of this Bouse the progress that has been made in the pa st year , and I do believe it has been significant. I am committed to continuing this effort and will continue to play an active role in further federal/provincial meetings to ensure that this Province's position is safeguarded and that Canada pursues a responsible path to acid rain abatement. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 1063

.. March 27, 1984 Tape 397 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I ta~e some pride in the fact I think ~hat I was probably one of the first people to bring up 'c~.e problem of c.:..;id rain and that was done in 1979 at the committee stage. Hansard will show that 'the matter was debated fully at that particular time with the then Minister of the Environment. However, at that time. we had no evidence in this Province and we were still in the monitoring stage. Mr.

Speaker, we _do have people in the federal government and a provincial monitoring agency in place at the present time. I would like to point out to the minister that this is an area where we often hear members on the other side criticizing the federal government. I think this is one case where the federal government is paramount in this issue because it is dealing country to country.

And I can say to the minister that while the tone of the end of this particular briefing, I suppose, that we received on acid rain today seemed to indicate that 1I will fight on,' I will say to him that we on this side of the House are glad that you are adding your support to the fight on acid rain, as should all Ministers of the Environment across the country. But I would caution the minister not to think that he is the only one. We on this side of the House feel exactly the same way the minister does. ~ .e feel that this is a problem.

It can be potentially perhaps the most damaging problem that industrial society has faced in the past twenty or thirty years. Our lakes,and lately our forests, are threatened and the problems lie squarely on the doorstep 1064

March 27, 1984 Tape 397 EC - 2 MR. HODDER: of the United States Government, at the present time a Conservative regime who feel that the interests of business are more important than the interests of the people, and in the long run they will be wrong. In the long run, the ·Government of the United States will be shown to be wrong, because they are suffering - and in the Atlantic Governors' Conferences this has been brought out many times - the states of the United States which are in the same posi­ tion that we are, feel the same way we do.

In the long-term, if the waterways go and the forests go, then it will be a blot on the Ronald Reagan record in the United States. MR. NEARY: That is right. MR . HODDER: The only other thing I can say to reiterate is we are glad that the minister has taken this stand, but let none of us think for a moment that we can succeed unless all governments and all individuals make their views known on acid rain. I think it is very important for us in Newfoundland and for individuals across Canada to take a stand. It is an easy stand to take, because we are all affected by it in the same manner, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1065

March 27, 1984 MR.SPEAKER(Russell: Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Tape No. 398 ah-1 ORAL QU ESTIO! ~S The hon. member for Mr. Speaker, I intended to ask the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) a couple of questions. I do not . know if the Minister of Transportation is stuck on an unploughed road somewhere and if he is it is ironic. I know the minister worked late last night because we were all down to the Colonial Building until eleven o'clock discussing the estimates on Transportation. I think there was one member of the press there.

It seems that the press have the same attitude towards these estimates as the Opposition do, that they are a waste of time. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, I will ask the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Transportation. I want to ask the Premier 1 do we . have a new policy in this Province now as it pertains to our bad roads? I refer , Mr. Speaker, to an

article in today's paper and it says that'Terra Nova MHA Glen Greening has told residents in Terra Nova ·-in the town of Terra Nova-'that the Department of Transportation will station a vehicle on that road 1 -that muddy road-'to tow vehicles in trouble out of the mud when it becomes necessary.• Is this a new departure by the Department of Transportation? And will this apply to roads like Markland, for example, or Hillview , and all of the other muddy roads around the Province? Is this a new departure?

Is this done through contract; Is somebody contracted to do this and will they be •paid by the vehicles that they tow out? Perhaps the Premier can address that? Is this a new departure? Is this something new that the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Greening) has announced? 1066

March 27, 1984 TApe No. 398 ah-2 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD·: Mr. Speaker 1 I am glad to see that the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Greening) is working hard for his district. SOME HON.MEMBERS: H~ar, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: It is the first time in many years that we have had the opportunity to see in print that there is a member for Terra Nova and that he is fighting on behalf of his constituents. It is really, really good to see. MR.NEARY: his maiden speech. PREMIER PECKFORD: I am looking forward to Mr.

Speaker, when particular problems arise in particular areas, local members in this House make representation to the responsible minister and action is taken. I can only assume,until I get all the details on this matter because I am not completely aware of it,that the member for Terra Nova has been very successful in agitating and fighting for something for his districtoAnd I will only implore the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) to start fighting as well. He has been here in this House long enough to know that he has got to get on the ball and start fighting for his district.

We have a brand new member, brand new, who has not been in the House before 1and he is doing more already for his district that the member for Bellevue is doing. SOME HO .N. MEMBERS: MR.CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER: MR.CALLAN: 1067 Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker a supplementary. The han. member for Bellevue. I am disappointed 1 actually,

March 27, 1984 Tape No . 398 ah -3 MR.CALLAN: that the Minister of Transportation (Mr . Dawe) is not here because I would not bother asking the Premier questions if I had a choice .. Al l it is is an invitation to go on with a lot of old malarkey and nonsense that the people around this Province are sick and tired of hearing , 1068

March 27, 1984, Tape 399, Page 1 -- apb MR. CALLAN · the empty promises and the marakey and the arm waving. Let me ask the Premier another auestion. In that same

article it says, 'A wild time in Wild Cove'. Now, that I believe is in the , district of the former Liberal M.H.A. for P .ie Verte - White Bay(Mr. Rideout), and it appears from this

article that the Minister of Transportation(Mr. Dawe) has taken a new departure as well, because there was a time when people protested that they were just ignored or dragged off to jail, and the Premier and the Minister of Transportation and so on, just let them. But the minister here, in connection with Wild Cove, has promised to meet them next Tuesday. Is this an invitation, Mr. Speaker, to people in Markland and Hillview, and Hodge's Cove, and other parts of the Province to get out and picket and create a wild time in their town, picket the roads and so on? Is this a new departure as well?

Is the minister now going be meeting individually with these groups who protest about the deplorable conditions of their roads? MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, once again we have a second member over here on this side of the House who does his work. I do not know what that means. It is foolishness that the hon. the member for Bellevue(Mr.Callan) is getting on with, Mr. Speaker, absolutely silly. MR. CALLAN: The

article was foolish. and what the minister did was foolish. PRF.MIER PECKFORD: How foolish is the han. the member for Bellevue? Gro"' up,, boy, for God's sake. Go and do your work and get your mayors and your municipalities and your organizations together and let them sit down ~vith the Minister of Transportation(Mr. Dawe) and the ministers over here for any of the departments will meet with anybody from 1069

March 27, 1984, Tape 399, Page 2 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: any part of the Province. If the member for Baie Verte - White Bay(Mr. Rideout) has been succe 'ssful in getting a meeting with the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) . to ta!k about the road to Wild Cove, so be it, so much the bet~er. Just get on with your work, boy, and do yo~r job. What is wrong with you? MR. SPEAKER(Russell) : The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I hope that the press is noting the arrogance,the escalated and the escalating arrogance of the Premier who is smarting for a dozen and one reasons. MR.

SIMMS: smarting! Yes, he looks like he is MR. CALLAN: The Premier knows, Mr. Speaker, that you do not meet with mayors and municipalities about the roads to Markland and Hillview, because these roads are not located in municipalities. And the Premier knows as well, Mr. Speaker, that it was the protesters in Wild Cove who brought about this result, that the minister promises to meet with them, and not the member. And it has happened in Bellevue district before. 1070

.. March 27, 1984 Tape 400 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: Let me ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, does the Department of Transportation intend to table a list of roads capital works programmes this year?· which does not necessarily, Mr. Speaker, have to contain the estimates for 1 say, three miles of paveme?t to Hodge's Cove; it does not have to contain the estimated cost and then be a giveaway to contractors when they want to bid.

But will the Department of Transportation be tabling a roads list early in the Spring so that each member of this House of Assembly will know whether or not any of the taxpayers' dollars - and there are additional taxpayers' dollars in the budget this year for roads and bridges - will there be any list forthcoming from the Department of Transportation to indicate to members and to taxpayers around this Province whether or not they will be getting some of their tax dollars back on two or three or four miles of pavement or a new bridge? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Well, Mr.

Speaker, first of all, what I said to the hon. member in answering the second question, I meant not just municipalities, I said development associations, local organizations, local roads boards, whatever the organization or citizens' group is in the area, in Markland or Hodge's Cove or anywhere else in the Province . MR. CALLAN: They did not know they were allowee to do it before. PREMIER PECKFORD: It does not have to be a municipal- ity. We are here to serve all the people of the Province. 1071

March 27, 1984 .Tape 400 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: The ministers of the Crown will meet with representatives of communities, whether they are elected or not elected, whether they are roads boards or municipalities or development associations or citizens' groups. I mean, that is no problem. Th~t · is easy enough, Mr. Speaker. So when the member cumes back and says Markland is not a municipality, that is not my point.

If there is a citizens' group~or development association or something there who want to make a presen­ tation or brief to the minister or to the department about their road conditions, well, sobeit, I mean, that is what we are here to do. That is what we are elected for, that is what we are getting paid for. There is no problem. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, as it relates to the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr.

Rideout), we·were in Baie Verte - White Bay over the weekend, myself and the member and I am telling you, the member for Baie Verte - White Bay is going to be elected in Baie Verte - White Bay for about the next fifty years. The man is doing more for the roads in that disfrict - it is unbelievable what the hon. member is doing! We had representatives from every community on the Baie Verte Peninsula on the weekend, praising the hon. member up to the stars! MR. CALLAN~ When are you coming out to Bellevue to announce the closing of another hospital? PREMIER PECKFORD: Thirdly, Mr.

Speaker, it was the member for Baie Verte - White Bay who organized the meeting, not the people from Wild Cove. The member for Baie verte - white Bay is doing his job. Now, I listen to the hon. member ask a question, but he will not listen 1072

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 401 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: but he will not listen to me give the answer. Talk about arrogancel The member for Bellevue (Mr. · Callan) is some arrogant, Mr. Speaker. He is one of the most arrogant members of this House. It is scandalous what is going on here.

Now as far as lists go, we publish lists every year, we have no problem with publishing lists,~nd I am very, very glad that the member for Bellevue finally acknowledged that we are going to .sp~nd not just the $21 million for the ordinary roads ~ programme in 1984-8S,but we are going to put another $15 million on top 6f it so that we can sol ve some of the roads programmes this year. MR. CALLAN : $7.2 million actually. MR.WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell ): Torngat ·Mountains. SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR. WARREN: The hon. ·member for Hear, hear! Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance (Dr .Collins). In this day and age there are quite a few people throughout the Province who are quite concerned about the consumption of alcohol. I understand that this year the minister estimates to gather in some seventy-odd million dollars in taxes from the sale of alcohol in this Province. You go into the liquor stores throughout the Province and you see propaganda concerning the constitution from the government, you see propaganda concerning the Premier's stand on the offshore issue.

I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if any consideration been given to placing labels on liquor bottles in the liquor stores similar to the labels that are placed on cigarette packages by Health and Welfare Canada? And, Mr. Speaker, I will ask the Minister of ?inance if any consideration has been 1073

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 401 ah-2 MR.WARREN: given so that people are consuming alcohol will at least be given the opportunity that smokers have and giving them statistics that . it is dangerous to their health? MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Finapce. DR.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think the han. member knows that this government is taking a giant step forward in this area. We have set up the Alcoh~l and ' Addiction Commission, ADDC - MR. HOUSE: Alcohol and Drug Addiction Commission.

DR.COLLINS: Alcohol and Drug Addiction Commiss~on,,There a!e very reputable people on this CommiEsion, very vigorous people doing many things in this area not only in terms of public education.but the whole gamut of trying to take care of abuse of these various drugs or these various pleasures, however you want to term them. In terms of the Liquor Corporation itself 1 it is considered by government to be more appropriate to concentrate the efforts in the Commission rather than the Corporation 1 which,after all is a marketing operation, a merchandising operation.

It would seem to be a conflict of purpose to have them market and at the same time to try to get into the area of diminishing consumption. So it is thought to be better and more creditable to have control of abuse. No one wants alcohol or tobacco abused. I think most people are not 1074

March 27, 1984, Tape 402, Page 1 --apb DR. COLLINS: against the use of alcohol and tobacco as long as it is used in a sensible way. Everyone is against abuse, but government feels that it is best to concentrate the attack on abuse in the Alcohol and Drug Addiction Commission. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, what a cop- out by t~e minister~ What a cop-out! The minister's one concern is to make sure that the people of this Province drink as much alcohol as possible. That is the minister's concern.

The minister did not answer my question, so I will phrase the question again. It is in the minister's hands to issue a directive to the Liquor Corporation and to·the breweries in Newfoundland to place the necessary warnings on containers of alcoholic beverages in this Province. Will the minister issue such a directive? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have explained how government is tackling this thing. We are spending, I think it is $1.3 million this year in trying to decrease abuse of these substances.

In terms of the merchandising of these substahces1we are not saying that we want the people of this Province to drink as much alcohol as they possibly can hold~ we are saying that we are making the substances available to the public and we are making it available under controlled conditions. This is the idea of having these - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker; the idea of having the sale of these substances restricted to government controlled outlets is to try to do it in a 1075

March 27, 1984, Tape 402, Page 2 -- apb DR. COLLINS: controlled fashion. It is not to promote the maximum consumption, it is to do it in a controlled fashion. And we have another very credible organization, quite adequately funded at the present time, to limit the abuse of these substances. MR. SPEAKER(Russell) : The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, before I put my question I would like to draw han. meffiPers' attention to the latest copy of The Muse, 'Welcome To His Nightmar~- Peckenstein Cutbacks.' When you read from a document, Mr.

Speaker, you have to lay it on the table of the House. In case the Premier has not seen this 'Peckenstein Cutbacks', Mr. Speaker, I would like to send him over a copy. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me direct a question to the Minister of Energy(Mr. Marshall). As han. membe~s know, I have warned the administration now a thousand times in the last year or so about putting all their eggs in one basket because it might backfire. I have warned the Premier and I have warned the administration not to wait until Brian Mulroney was elected Prime Minister of this country to start negotiations for an offshore I agreement.

But the Premier and the administration, Mr. Speaker, insisted on waiting and now Mr. Mulroney has unveiled his policy, he has retreated from the Clark position and has literally taken an identical position as the Liberal government in Ottawa have taken. Now, Mr. Speaker, would the han. gentleman tell the House if he intends to bring into this House a resolution to ask for the unanimous consent of the House to send a message to Mr. Mulroney that he has betrayed his own colleagues in this House? 1076

March 27, 1984 Tape 403 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the President of the Council MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, what a question: I would be much more concerned with a group of people on the other side who have betrayed the people of this Province time and time again on this very vital issue. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman has got a lot of gall anc a lot of face, we know that, but his gall and his face are consummate today when he gets up and asks a question of that nature.

The question that should be asked,and the question that has been mo"st relevant and will remain relevant until the present interim government of this country vacates office, is what the present government, the government of the day, is prepared to do with Newfoundland. And the only thing that the present government is prepa .red to do with the Province of Newfoundland is to offer it an agreement the same as Nova Scotia, which gives smaller or negligible benefits or no benefits at all to the Province of Newfoundland.

So the hon. gentleman can sit over there and exult with the five members on the Liberal side in the backbenches of Ottawa,including Mr. Rompkey. But the fact of the matter is if the hon. gentleman had the interests of the people of Newfoundland at heart, the hon. gentleman would be supporting us in our position with respect to the present government. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL : The hon. gentleman need not worry about the Conservative Government, and,certainly, he need not worry about the Conservative Government of this Province. As far as the Government of this Province is 1077

March 27, 1984 Tape 403 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL : concerned, we are determined that we are going to get justice and equity from the resources that we brought into Confederation. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: He would be better off, Mr. Speaker, occupying hims6~f with what his buddies ~n Ottawa are doing with respect to the people of this ­ Province than asking questions of that nature. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, now that Mr.

Mulroney has taken an identical position to the Liberal position, I would like to ask the hon. gentleman if there was any prior consultation or was this the same as the policy on the seal industry in this Province, that they went ahead unilaterally without any prior consultation with the hon. gentlemen there opposite before they unveiled their great policy, which turns out to be the same as the Liberal policy? Was there any prior consultation? And I would like to ask the hon. gentleman now, Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that both major parties in Canada have an identical position regarding the offshore, does the hon. gentleman now intend to go to the NDP to see if he can get them on his side? 1078

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 404 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. President of the Council. MR.MARSHALL: We will have to wait and see about indentical positions. The experience that we have had 1 and the discussions that we have had,and the policy that has been set by the federal Conservative Party of Canada is not exactly identical to the policy of the Liberal government of Canaoa. The - --- - fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman sits over there and he exults, and this is really what he does, he exults and gloates over the situation in the Province of Newfoundland today.

He .· is a hanomaiden -of Ottawa , he and the Mayor of the city of St. John's,when he is speaking at various concerns here in town 1when he is not attending the National Capital Commission up in Ottawa and going back and forth, that type of individual in this Province, Mr. Speaker, we can do without, because what ·they are doing is, as I said yesterday, just __ ____ _ providing fodder for the patronizing press of Central Canada. And that is all, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. gentleman achieves.

He is an Uncle Tom in this land who sits there 1and all he is concerned about is trying to undermine 1in his wild lust for power 1 the position of the ~eople of this Province and the government of this Province in trying to achieve justice and equity from a resource that they brought into Confederation with them. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! MR.MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the only federal party in Canada that has indicated that it is prepared to give justice and equity to the people of this ·Province 1079

March 27 ,. 1984 Tape No. 404 ah-2 -. MR. V~RSHALL: has been·the Progressive Conservative Party. When the Progressive Conservative government g~ts iri nationally we will get justic~ and equity from that resource, but I can guarantee you one thing, Mr. ' Speaker, and I can guarantee the h_on. gentleman, that we will -- - --- - not act like little toadies and we will not act as little ' stooges because we are of the same political colour. We will act in the best interest of the people of the Province of Newfoundland and we will not bow down for anybody, we have no intention of so doing. So the han. gentleman, Hr.

Speaked:" cannot attempt in his questions to try to deflect the responsibility that he ought to shoulder himself for the way in which he has mismanaged his representation of the people of this Province. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we just saw another example of the han. gentleman's little beady eyes and his little snake-like tong~e 1 squirting, hissing, out the poison , hissing out the bile his little tongue hissing , his snake-like tongue. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I would ask han. members and ask the han.

Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) to pose a direct question. : MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, and the lap- dogs over there , of course, the lapdogs pound their desks. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 1080 ..

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 404 ah-3 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The Cha ·ir asked the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) to pose a direct question. has ruled, else. If . he persists in not heeding what the Chair ·the Chair will be forced to recognize somebody MR.NEARY: Oh, is that so, Mr.Speaker. How wonderful~ We are allowed a

preamble in this House, are we not? SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order. MR.NEARY: I _nerel l::_ asked the Sreaker a ~estion : Are we or are we not allowed a preanble in this House? Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council on a point of order. MR .MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the han . gentleman is getting hot under the collar. get hot under the collar as much as he likes with any member of the government or any minister, but happens to be the Speaker of the House. Your Honour SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. SIMMS: what he is saying. MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! Order, . please!

Be still so we can hear Mr. Speaker, these are reflections on Your Honour's authority. Your Honour has made a ruling and the hon. gentleman gets up and taunts Your Honour. MR. SIMMS: withdraw. MR.SPEAKER: He should be asked to To that point of order certainly sometimes there are

preambles, but I think is a little different 1081

Ma .rch 27, 1984 Tape No . 404 ah-4 MR.SPEAKER (Rus .seH): kind of situation. The Chair rose and asked the bon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary} to pose a direct question b~cause he was entering into the realm of debate. And having sat down,the han . Leader of the Opposition, .in the Chair's opinion at least, pro ceeded to continue debate instead of posing a direct question . The . Chair again asked the han . Leader of the Opposition to pose a direct question or the Chair would have to recognize .somebody else . MR.NEARY: Mr . Speaker, in view of the fact now that 1082

March 27, 1984 Tape 405 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: the Tory Party of Canada under Mr. Mulroney and the Liberal Party have an identical position on the offshore, now that the Supreme Court has handed down its decision, would the hon." gentleman inform the House if it is now the intention of the administra­ tion to pick up the phone and call the Prime Minister or call the federal Minister of Energy (Mr. Chretien) and do what they were elected to do back on April 6, 1982 when they were given such an overwhelming mandate, and ask, Mr.

Speaker, man-fashion - or do they intend to fight to the last ounce of blood of the welfare recipients and the unemployed in this Province - pick up the phone man-fashion - MR. SIMMS: Is there a question in tl"ere? MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman is alrig:1t, i1e has nothing to 'Vmr.ry about - and ask, Mr. Speaker, man-fashion to return to the bargaining table, to resume negotiations and to ma~e a strenuous effort to get the best agreement that we can for Newfoundland and for Canada? Now, Mr. Speaker, is that too much to ask hon. gentlemen to do?

Let me put a second part to that question: Or is it the intention - and if it is, let them state their policy, never mind beating around the bush and leaving the thing up in the air, state their policy - or is it the intention of the administra­ tion to keep fighting and squabbling and arguing and frothing at the mouth and squirting poison and bile until after the next federal election? Is that their policy, Mr. Speaker, to continue fighting, to create all kinds of pain and suffering in this Province and ruin Newfoundland economically and financially? Is that their policy, to 1083

March 27, 1984 MR. NEARY: next federal election? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Council. MR. MARSHALL : Tape 405 EC - 2 continue that until after the The hon. the President of the Mr. Speaker, I gather that was a questi0n that the hQn. gentleman was asked to ask. r~. Speaker, the position of this government is well-known. This government will deal with any party, any government, in any matter, provided that government or that other party deals with this government in good faith. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: And to date,we have not been dealt with in good faith. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

MARSHALL: The situation since the decision of the Court has come in 1 the only indication that we have received, if any indication, and that indirectly from the federal government, is that they are prepared to impose upon this Province an agreement similar to the Nova Scotian agreement. And, as long, Mr. Speaker, . a~ the federal government proposes an agreement which is an agreement along the framework of the Nova Scotian agreement, it cannot be accepted by 1084

March 27, 1984, Tape 406, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: this government. Mr. Speaker, if you are going to negotiate with anybody at any time 1 you have to negotiate from the point of view of equality 1 with each side recognizing the rights of the other. And what the Nova Scotian agreement wo .uld be would be to really impose upon this Province the same type of colonialism which the Supreme Court of Canada, in my mind mistakenly, but the Supreme Court of Canada said that Newfoundland had in 1949. Mr.

Speaker, I do not believe that Newfoundland was a colonial power in 1949 1 but I am sure and certain that this government is not going to preside at it continuing to be a colonial power in the Canadian Confederation. So the answer, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. gentleman is that we are prepared to deal with anyone who deals with us in good faith. But people who come to us and say they want to give us an agreement like the Nova Scotian agr~ement, whic~ ~ives negl~gible if ~ny benefit to this Province, not only something that we will not accept but we will not submit to if thez attempt to impose I it upon us. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Mount Scio. MR. BARRY: Hear,hear! The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the hon. the Premier. The Premier has indicated that he is commencing a cross-country tour. I wonder if the Premier has given any consideration to having members MR. ANDREWS: Do you want to go with him? MR. BARRY: As a matter of fact, that is an excellent idea, Mr. Speaker. The words were taken right out of my mouth. 1085

March 27, 1984, Tape 406, Page 2 -- apb MR. BARRY: Has the Premier given any consideration to bringing certain members of the business ·community, university community, the general population of.Newfoundland 1 to assist the Premier in communicating the j·ustice and equity of Newfoundland's case with respect to being involved in the management of the .::.ffshore and having a fair share of revenue from the offshore, and would the Premier consider an all'-'party cross-country tour?

Would the Premier invite members of the Opposition to participate in explaining properly in a fair, reasonable and ·sensible fashion that what the people of this Province are seeking with respect to the offshore is not anything more than an opportunity to participate ~easonably in management, and to participate fairly in revenue? Would the Premier consider those suggestions? MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The hon. the Premier. 1086

March 27, 1984 Tape 407 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I find the question from the hon. the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) absolutely incredible! The member for Mount Scio district ~as joined a party that, to this point in time, has not supported the government in its offshore position - SOME HON .. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PR&~IER PECKFORD: - yet they want to trek across the country with us now, they . are trying to 'piggyback' - MR. NEARY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order. MR.

NEARY: U_pde:;:- the rules of this House, Mr. Speaker, I believe a half-hour, thirty minutes, is allocated for the Oral Question Period and I believe the time for Question Period has expired, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh; oh! MR. NEARY: And, Mr. Speaker, under the rules of the House, the same rules apply to that side as apply to this side. I believe, under the rules of the House, Your Honour has no choice but to terminate the Oral Question Period. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: point of order. PREMIER PECKFORD: To that point of order, The hon. the Prernier,to that Mr.

Speaker, we will see now, because it is near the end of Question Period, what the Leader of the Opposition is up to. He does not want me to respond to that question from the member for Mount Scio district because the Leader of the Opposition knows that his position on the offshor~ ·obviously must be in conflict 1087

March 27, 1984 Tape 407 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: with that of the member for Mount Scio district (Mr. Barry). MR. SIMMS: Right on! PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, today, we will close down the House, but will the Liberal Opposition support the posrtion that we have on the table right now as it related to the offshore? MR. NEARY: Let us have an election! Let us have an election! PREMIER PECKFORD: Do you take the constitutional position that we take? Do you take the interim position that we take? That is what I would like to know. MR. NEARY: Where are the rul~s? PREMIER PECKFORD: has a problem, Mr. Speaker. MR.

NEARY: Is this in order, Mr. Speaker? The member for Mount Scio district Where are the rules, Mr. Speaker? Are the rules gone out the window? SOME HON. MEMBERS : PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: the rules? MR. SPEAKER (Russell ): PREMIER PECKFORD: Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! They will not listen to me. Where are the rules? What about Order, please! Order, please! May I be heard in silence, Mr. Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition is asking, 'Where are the rules of this House?' The Chair re­ cognized the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order and listened to his argument, and the Chair is intending to do the same thing with the Premier, who rose in response to that point of order. 1088

March 27, 1984 Tape 407 EC - 3 MR. SPEAKER ('Russell) : To the point of order raised by the han. the Leacer of the Opposition, the Chair, as I ·understand it , at least , decides whe .n Question Period is over and shali continue to do that. When the han. the member for Mount Scio posed a question to the han. the Premier, and when the han. the Premier rose to speak, the time £or the Question Period had not elapsed.

And certainly, if a question is asked and a minister or the Premier is in the process of answering the question, I think it is a matter of courtesy that the minister should be allowed to finish the answer. has now expired. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPE1\KER: PREMIER P:ECKFORD: MR. NEARY: 1089 The ti.lle .for Question Period Oh, oh! Order , please! To answer the - Sit down! You are out of order .

March 27, 1984, Tape 408, Page 1 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Order, please! The time for the Question Period has now expired. ORDER OF THE DAY On motion, that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole on Supply, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY MR. CHAIRMAN(Aylward): We are discussing a resolution pertaining to Bill No. 10, Interim Supply. Opposition. MR. NEARY: The han. the Leader of the Mr. Chairman, the Tory position is what has us in the trouble we are into today.

The Premier and his minion to his right have followed a. policy that has led to complete and utter failure, and they keep repeating that the only way to do things is the Tory way. Mr. Chairman, there is another way. The other way is common sense, the other way is the honourable way, the other way is to outwit, and ·out­ fox, and outsmart your opponent. That is the other way. The Tory way has proven to be the wrong way, Mr. Chairman, so here we are today with a situation in Newfoundland where we are literally a welfare state.

Apart from the ·han. gentleman getting a few goodies over across the bay, and his trucks going down through the wharves over there, apart from that there is very little else happening in this Province. I cannot say there is very little else happening because we heard today about a new policy. This policy is unique, Mr. Chairman, in the whole of Canada. The other provinces probably have never heard of it. If they had thought of it first, then Newfoundland certainly would not be able to take the lead in this new 1090

March 27, 1984, Tape 408, Page 2 -- apb MR . NEARY: policy, the new policy announced by the member for Terra Nova(Mr. Grenning) , unique in the whole of Canada . I doubt very much if very many countries in the world have adopted this policy. The hon. gentleman told us during the election that he was going to get o-~ forty-fifth of ·the budget spent in Terra Nova, one forty­ fifth. It will be inter~sting to see if the hon. gentleman has his one forth -fifth yet . MR . CARTER: fourth. He only needs one forty- MR . NEARY: Now he only needs one forty-fourth. But what is the new policy of the administration?

What kind of plans and policies and programmes do they have for looking after the needs of people who live along gravel roads, .dirt roads, Mr. Chairman, people who live do'.m in 'st. Mary's Bay and Grand Bay Wes 't, outside of Port aux Basques, down in my colleague's district of Bellvue, and down in Fogo district? What is this new policy? Is this just a pilot project that they 1091

March 27, 1984, Tape 409, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: announced a few days ago? Is it a pilot project or do they intend to expand this policy to include other regions of Newfoundland and Labrador? What is the poiicy to which I refer? The po 1 icy is one that was articulated a few days ago by the member for Terra Nova(Mr .Grenning), and here is the policy, Mr. Chairman: 'Terra Nova M.H.A. Glenn Grenning, has told residents that the Department of Transportation will station a vehicle at the road to tow vehicles in trouble out of the mud when it becomes necessary.' MR. SIMMS: What a member! MR.

NEARY: What a member, Mr. Chairman, what ·a member. They are going to station a tow truck, or a bulldozer, or a crane, or something down along the road in Wild Cove. They are not going to repair the road, they are not going to fill up the potholes - MR. CALLAN: Not Wild Cove, in Terra Nova. MR. NEARY: In Terra Nova. Excuse me. They are not going to reconstruct the road, Mr. Chairman, they are not going to haul gravel in and fill up the soft spots in the road. They are not going to do that. No, they are going to do something that is unique.

The Tory administration in this Province have not had an original idea in twelve years,and we keep reminding them of that in this hon. House, but now their record has been spoiled, their record is spoiled, they now have a new transportation policy that they will station vehicles along >roads that are soft and full of potholes, to tow out vehicles that get in trouble. Mr. Chairman, as I said yesterday, it is a pity that Ray Guy is not around now with 1092

March 27, 1984, Tape 409, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: his pen. What a shame! A gentleman who told the people in Terra Nova he was going to get one forty-fifth of the budget is now going to get some kind of a piece of equipment to tow vehicles out of the mud. Mr. Chairman, this is going on in Wild Cove, I would say probably - MR. STAGG: It is not in Wild Cove. Wild Cove is not in his district. MR. NEARY: 'A Wild time in Wild Cove'. Oh, excuse me. That was the heading. MR. BAIRD: confused. MR.. NEARY: You are thoroughly Terra Nova. The road to Terra Nova. Mr.

Chairman, there you have it, there is the philosophy and the thinking and the ideology of the administration there opposite. Do not repair roads, do not reconstruct roads, do not build new bridges, let the ­ potholes get deeper and deeper and when the roads become impassable and impossible, send out a vehicle to tow the vehicles out of the mud. Mr. Chairman, I do not know if this little item in The Dail y News of March 27 excaped the media but in case it did - MR. SIMMS: That is today's date. MR.

NEARY: That is today's date - but in case it did they should get it and read it just to see that I am not exaggerating. I know that they are grasping for straws over there, they are struggling for new ideas. They have new blood in their party, the han. gentleman brought new blood into the party, new ideas. No doubt with this, Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman will be Cabinet material. Does the han. gentleman realize that that is the first original idea that eminated from that side of the House in twelve years? The hon. gentleman should get the first medal for bravery, for having the 1093

~ March 27, 1984, Tape 409, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY : courage to bring up this matter, to pioneer this great policy of the Tory administration. As I said yesterday, 'Mr . Carter's remarks, pure eat's manure' . That is mentioned in there too. Now, Mr . Chairman, if I·have any time left I would like to read a letter - MR. SIMMS: Is it Leo's letter? MR . NEARY : No . Mayb e I should not read the letter because if I read the letter I \>lill have to table it and I do not have the permission of the individual to identify the individual . But I have to tell you \llhat is typical of the kind of letters that we are get ting from students around this Province . 1094

March 27, 1984 Tape 410 APE - 1 MR. NEARY: Han. members will recall that last Fall, in November and December when the House met, we expressed great concern .about the shambles that had been created in the Department of Education concerning the processing of applications for Student Aid. The Minister of Education (Ms Verge) turned on one of her tapes at the time and, Mr. Chairman, would not acknowledge the fact that Student Aid was in a terrible mess, that students were being forced to drop out of university because their applications were not processed because they could not get their Student Aid on time.

Well, Mr. Chairman; this is the sort of thing we get from students around this Province. MR. SIMY£: Are you reading now? MR. NEARY: No, I am not reading, I am just summarizing. We have all kinds of letters that start out 'Dear Mr. Callan', 'Dear Mr. Barry','Dear Mr. Roberts', 'Dear Mr. Neary': 'We would like to take this opportunity, I first of all, to introduce ourselves. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: They usually go on to say, Mr. Chairman: 'I am a student' and they usually state their age,and they tell you where they live, and they tell you that they are presently unemployed.

Now, that is just par for the course. There is nothing new in that. Then they tell you that in the community in which they live they have been unable to obatin employment, that they have searched all over Newfoundland and other places, and they even go to St. John's, Mr. Chairman, to seek I employment. They spend some time in St. John's with their relatives and friends, they stay _ in for a couple' of months at a time, depending on whether or not they 1095

March 27, 19~4, Tape 410, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: have some place to stay, and then they come up and they consult with their members, especially with members of the government because with the reputation that this administration has for political appointments- and the policy that has developed in t~is Province is not what you know but whom you know - they come up to Confederation Building and they search desperately for remployment.

They stay here as long as they can and then they have to go back and they say, We consulted with a number of government officials, and we went to all the business houses in downtown St. John's, and we were unsuccessful in obtaining jobs. In the case of girls they \ apply for secretarial positions, they look at the ads in the newspapers, in the various newspapers, and sometimes they even look at the G~obe And Mail and The Financial Post, and again they have to report that they are unsuccessful. As a last resort, Mr.

Chairman, some- times they go to the fish plants and they go to the various malls and they put applications in by the dozens, and by the hundreds, in some cases, all over the Province without success. Now, Mr. Chairman, that is the sad story that we get day in and day out. MR. CHAIID1AN (Aylward) : Order, please! The han. gentleman's time has elapsed. MR. RIDEOUT: I-ir. Speaker. MR. CHAIRMAN: The han. the member for Baie Verte - White Bay. AN -HON. ME:I-"illER: He said, ·~x. Speaker: Mr. Chairmen. There should be a pcint of order. MR. RIDEOUT: It is not technically correct, 1096

March 27, 1984, Tape 410, Page 3 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Chairman, but I am sure it is interchangeable and has been used by all of us from time to time. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have a few words this afternoon, particularly as it relates to a couple of questions raised by the Opposition. They were such great questions they were entitled to a ten minute devastating debate by the Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Neary) in the first round here on Interim Supply debate this afternoon.

I have been around here for about ten years and I did not really realize the connection, but The Daily News gave it away in their headline this morning • . There is no doubt about that, Mr. Chairman, The Daily News, that great impartial paper that is published in Newfoundland every morning, they really gave it away in their headline this morning and the Leader of the Opposition cued right in on it. Look, you would not do better if you have called up the han. gentleman and said, Take it hook, line,­ sinker and bait and go to the House of Assembly, because that is exactly what he did.

He zeroed in on an unfortunate road situation in my district and a road situation in Terra Nova, and he made the great speech just now about this new policy now, this new policy that the government has - instead of fixing the roads we go around stationing tow-out vehicles by the mud holes and you tow out a vehicle as it comes up and gets stuck. The point I want to make, Mr. Chairman, is that that is exactly,verbatim what was carried on some page or another of this morning's Daily News, verbatim. And that was the extent of the han. gentleman's 1097

March 27, 1984, Tape 411, Page 1 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: research, I am sure, and that was the extent of the research of The Daily News as well. The two of them clicked together, Mr. Chairman, perfectly. Because what happened out in Terra Nova district on Friday night? There was an emergency situation where there were two or _ three places in road that could not be fixed because of the lateness in the day, and what happened? The Department of Transportation said, We will station a vehicle here .in case there is an emergency during the night.

In case there is an emergency during the night we will station a vehicle here. so if somebody is coming up from Terra Nova with a heart attack, or is sick, on their deathbed and has to be taken to a hospital, we will station a vehicle there that will be capable of hauling an emergency vehicle through the mud. Thanks to the efforts of the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Grenning), that is what was done out in Terra Nova.

And I say to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition(Mr.Neary), if that was not done through the efforts of the member, and something happened,you would have The Daily News,and you would have himself, and you would have all his colleagues in this House crying holy war - MR. SIMMS: Right on. MR. RIDEOUT: - calling down absolute destruction on this administration for being so callous as to not put something in place in a very difficult situation, very bad road conditions, so that if there was an emergency they would be able to get a vehicle through. Now, that is what happened, nothing more, nothing less.

The next day, I understand from talking to the member, they went in there with their trucks and their crushed stone, and their gravel and whatever, and filled up the holes and smoothed them over. And 'the emergency vehicle was hauled out and people drove back and forth, not as usual or as normal because the road 1098

·. March 27, 1984, Tape 411, Page 2 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: is in very poor ·condition, but they were able to rnanouevre back and forth over that road·by themselves. Now, Mr. Chairman, that is what the member did, that is what 'the Minister of Transportai ton (Mr. Dawe) had done. Is the .re sornetlling 'sini'ster or wrong about that? Is that not part of the role of any member 1 if he gets that kind of request from his constituency, to make sure that something is put in place so that an emergency situation can be taken care of overnight? and the next day they go in and try to fix it and try to do something with it.

Now, that was The Daily News reporting. That is an example of the accurate reporting of The Daily News, latched onto, of course, by the Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Neary) and blown into a new policy statement here in the House today and all that kind of thing. Another great example, Mr. Chairman, of the unbiased, researched reporting of The Daily News is the headline in this morning's paper which the hon. gentleman for Bellevue(Mr. Callan) used in the Question Period today, 'Wild Time In Wild Cove'. 'Wild Time in Wild Cove'.

Now, if that had been Bear cove it would not have been 'A Wild Time In Bear Cov:e ,' or if that had been Shoe Cove it would not have been 'A Wild Time In Shoe Cove'. What was the headline in The Evening Telegram this evening about the Wild Cove situation, Mr. Chairman? 'Residents Picket For Better Roads'. It just so happened, and, Mr. Chairman, the residents of Wild Cove will know this, because I have them corning in here next week for a meeting, it just so happened that there was fun played on the name of that community.

That is what happened. 'Wild Time In Wild Cove' perpetrated, brought more out in the open in this House today by the member quoting the head­ line. But if that had been Bear Cove, or if that had been 1099

March 27, 1984, Tape 411, Page 3 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: Shoe Cove , or if ·that had been Timbucktoo, it would have been the Telearam 's article, the Telegram's headline 'Residents Picket For Better Roads'. But the name of the community, Mr. Chairman, was Wild- Cove and that is what wrote the head­ line, that is what wrote the qeadli ne on those people down .in Wild Cove who are out protesting. They have bad roads, I will be the first one to admit it . They have bad roads, but, Mr. Chairman 1100

March 27, 1984, Tape 412, Page 1 --apb MR. RIDEOUT: over the last three years we have made tremendous progress in improving road conditions on the Baie Verte Peninsula.- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. RIDEOUT: -and, Mr. Chairman, that will continue and the people of Wild Cove will get road improvements as we get around to doing them. We are not going to be making commitments based on picket lines. I have told them that. They had one request only and that was a request to sit down with the minister, Mr. Chairman, and that is a reasonable request.

I will arrange that for anybody in my constituency at any time, and I would think that any member in this House would do that same thing. But you are not going to get commitments from picket lines, you are ·not going to get commitments from that kind of thing. But to sit down and meet, of course we will sit down and meet with them, of course we will sit down and talk to them. The point I want to make, Mr. Chairman, is that there.were two separate situations in this Province over the last two or three days, one in Terra Nova and one happened to be in my constituency.

And this great Liberal rag that is published here every morning - MR. ANDREWS: MR. RIDEOUT: Published by whom? We know who it is published by -they do so much research that the member for Terra Nova(Mr. Grenning),in an effort to help out his constituents, gets hauled over the coals here in the House for getting an emergency vehicle supplied just for one night, just for one night, until they could get in there the next day and throw some gravel or some rock or something in the soft spots.

Then they take the name of a community and they play a pun on that name to try to get it going again, that there is something wild about 11 0 1

... March 27, 1984, Tape 412, Page 2 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: the people in Wild Cove. How many protests have we had, Mr. Chairman, about road conditions, or hospital conditions, or student conditions, or overcrowding conditions? How many protests have we had in this Province since I have been in politics, over the last ten years? You have never seen that kind of headline. You do not get 'Wild Time In Bellevue', or 'Wild Time In Hodge's Cove', or 'Wild Time'somewhere else, it just happened it was the name of the community. And, of course, the han. gentleman for Bellevue(Mr.

Callan), who would laugh at almost anything, thought it was funny. He had to pick it up in Question Period. MR. TOBIN: difference. He did not know the MR. RIDEOUT: He knew the difference. The han. gentleman knew the difference. The han. gentleman knew why it was 'Wild Time In Wild Cove'. But, Mr. Chairman, let me tell this Committee that the people of Wild Cove are very serious, hard-working, law-abiding citizens and they are not impressed by that kind of headline. They are not impressed with playing with their desire to have something done to improve their lot. So there you had it, two - MR.

NEARY: Your time is up. MR. RIDEOUT: The Chair will let me know when my time is up, Mr. Chairman. So there we have it, two instances over the last couple of days, in two separate parts of the Province, where that greatly researched paper, The Daily News, writes up all the research and all the information, the Opposition latches onto it, gets up in the House and thinks that they have the real thing, the next best thing since sliced bread. But when you get a press 1102

March 27, 1984, Tape 412, Page 3 -- apb MR. RIDE.OUT: that is responsible, Mr. Chairman, it will write a responsible headline. 'Residents Picket For Better Roads', now, that is responsible reporting, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN· (Aylward) : Order, please! time has elapsed. MR. CALLAN: MR. CHAIRMAN: Bellevue. MR . CALLAN: MR. TOBIN: your face. MR. CALLAN: The hon. the member's Mr. Chairman. The hon. the member for Mr. Chairman - You have some gall to show Mr. Chairman, I want to be heard in silence. I want to congratulate the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. Rideout) for his eloquence.

He is just a.s eloquent now as he was during the four and a half hour speech, when he lambasted this same Tory government, the same people - the Premier was in the Cabinet at the time, and, of course, he is the leader now - the same sick crowd. But anyway, Mr. Chairman, the member talks about the 'Wild Time In Wild Cove', and he talks about the cheap shot taken by The Daily News. Now where did The Daily News, and where did most people in this Province get their ideas about taking 1103

March 27, 1984 Tape 413 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: dirty, cheap shots? ~ow, let me tell you, Mr. Chairman, where it came from; and it is continuing, and it is great - it is great when this other gentleman does it, but when we do it it is shocking! But let us·take the example, Mr. Chairman, of another .gentleman 1vli10 was a former Liberal but now is a Tory, an unsuccessful Tory for the leadership of the federal ~~c. Party. I am talking, Mr. Chairman, about John Crosbie. Now, just look at the cheap shot that John Crosbie took - not in a newspaper which is distributed in St. John's, but on national television.

Let us look at the cheap shot that John Crosbie took when he was trying to defend havin'] Shannon T~:!eed try to raise a couple of hundred thousand dollars for him to pay off his expenses. What ch'eap shot did he take? What did he say about communities in my district, not one, but two, Mr. Chairman? What did he say? He talked about Shannon Tweed, who, of course, was from Dildo - SOHE HON. !:!EMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: - which is not that far from Come By Chance. And the dirt and the innuendo and every­ thing was there.

And it was not enough for hin ·to talk about ,Shannon Tweed, but at a ~.c. convention out in Gander, he stood on the stage and talked about getting a date with Shannon Tweed's mother. He even dragged Shannon Tweed's mother into it. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. CALLAN: SOME HON. MEMBERS : (Inaudible) for Trudeau! That is right! That is right! Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: But he was still talking about the girl's r.:other. MR. BAIRD: Harris tweed is waiting for you. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! 1104

March 27, 1984 Tape 413 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: Mr. Chairman, it is unfortunate that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) is not here today. And that is all I am going to say about that silly nonsense that the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. Rideout) got on with. Mr. Chairman, I also have .a few 'words to say, I will have several ten minute spots this afternoon, and perhaps I can drag the member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. Reid) to his feet. MR. WARREN: No, you will not. MR. CALLAN: He made the comment just no~ when the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) referred to all of the work and contracts he was getting, that he was happy. Now, I am going to elaborate on why that gentl~rnan is happy later on, but I want to do something before my time runs out. The Premier just now talked about me, as an Opposition member, fighting for my district and for roads. Last night, Mr. Chairman, we spent from 7: 30 until 11:00 down in the Colonial .Building on the highways or the Transportation estimates.

This morning, after asking the minister several questions for which there were no answers, I sat down and wrote a letter to the minister, which I brought up here to this Legislature to be hand delivered to the minister, but he was not here. So I gave a copy to the Premier anyway when he accused me of not fighting for my district. This is not the first letter that I have written, Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the residents of Bellevue. I am .going to read the letter. The Leader of the Opposition referred to a letter ,,;h.ich he did not want to quote from because he did not want to table it - it came from a student.

I will read directly 1105

~ March 27, 1984 Tape 413 EC - 3 MR. CALLAN: from my letter and be glad to table it and, of course, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) will be getting the original. Now, here is what my letter to the Minister of Transportation says, Nr. Chairr:En . i!-1R. YOUNG: He is a good r:~inister. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: And I want to be heard in silence, Mr. Chairman, I do not want to be interrupted by the likes of the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) or the member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. Reid) or Humber East or West or whatever. Mr.

Chairman, here is my letter to the Minister of Transportation: "I am writing at this time because of my continued interest in and concern for several stretches of unpaved road and at least one bridge in the d-istrict of Bellevue. I refer to the bridge in Chapel Arm. This bridge, located on the beach in Chapel Arm, has been studied with a view to replacement over the past several years, as you are aware.

The studies are completed now and I understand'- as a matter of fact, I know -that the department officials in the Department of Transportation have placed this bridge on a priority list to be built during this construction season." It will be interesting, Mr. Chairman, to see what happens to the priority list that comes up from officials in Municipal Affairs and in Highways and other departments, what happens to it when it reaches the Cabinet stage. --- ··- - MR. CARTER: Liberals do not (inaudible) . MR. CALLAN) : I would like for the member for St. John's North (Mr.

Carter) to be silent as well while I am speaking, Mr. Chairman. 1106

March 27, 1984 Tape Nq. 414 MJ - 1 HP .. CALLAN: 'I trust that this bridge will be built this year for ali the reasons given in earlier briefs presented by the Chapel Arm To"tom Council and other concerned parties 1 including myself.' So that is the bridge. 1 There are seven miles of dirt road through Markland' -which the member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (rtr. Reid) was going to pavP. -'There are thirteen miles of dirt road from the Trans- Canada at Hillview to the Town of St. Jones Within. There are approximately fifteen miles of dirt road remaining on the road to Southport in Southwest llrJTl.' MR.

CARTER: How many miles of dirt? MR.

CALLAN: That is on your farm~ You are happy too for a similar reason that the t'lember -~'or mrinitv - Bay de Verde is happy, . and I will tell that one in a moment. 'Approximately five miles of that road had. been paved in earlier years,' that is going towards Hodge's Cove. •The last three miles was paved in 1981.' We know what happened; there was a by-election• and it got paved that Summer. 'The mile of road through North West Brook and a couple of miles between Bellevue Beach Park and Chance Cove, plus the odd stretches between Long Cove and Thorn lea' - which we~e left by the former member for that district, Trinity - Bay de Verde - anc Bellevue and Bellevue Beach, these are the dirt roads in the district of Bellevue.' I have listed them all for the minister and I say to the minister,'I realize that only a small number of mile~ of road can be expected to be done in the district of Bellevue this year.' Nobody is expecting any more than two or three miles. 'I realize that there are 3,400 kilometers of dirt road in the Province of Newfoundland!

Here is 1107

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 414 MJ - 2 MR. CALLAN: the point, Mr. Chairman. However, if at least two or three or five miles of road could be paved in the district of Bellevue this year, it would give the impression' MR. YOUNG: No way. MR. CALLAN: And the Minister of Puhlic Works (Mr. Young) can listen to this one. - it would give the impression of fairness and equity as it pertains to the distribution of taxpayers•dollars around the Province. I trust that some funds can be found to pave some stretch of road in the district of Bellevue this Summer.

The petitions'- and han. members opposite know this well - 1the petitions have been presented on several occasions from Markland and Southwest Arm and all the other areas pertaining to all the roads mentioned above.' Here is an invitation to the minister - 'I would be pleased to accompany you on a visit to any or all of the areas of road in question if you feel that a firsthand look at these areas would be beneficial and I anticipate an early, favourable reply.' That is mv letter to the minister, - . Mr. Chairman, and I hope that neither the Premier rior the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) will ever point their finger at me and say that I have not been fighting over the years for improvement to these roads in Markland. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, I expect a petition from Markland, a petition which has been distributed by one of the local clergy. It was not my initiat1ve, I did not phone someone in Markland or prepare a petition as han. members opposite do often.

They prepare a petition and go out and say, 'Here is a petition•I want you to get this around >so that we can get something for this area.' This petition came at the discretion and at the initiation of a local clergyman and that petition I assume will be presented here 1108

March 27 , 1984 Tape No. 414 MJ - 3 MR. CALLAN : in this Rouse by me in a couple of days,as soon as it gets in from Markland. Mr. Chairman, I table this letter from which I have j·~st read as the rules 'require that I do. Mr. Chairman, to get back to this

article -now that I have got my letter read into the record - I believe the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr . Rideout) was too ta~en up I think in the headline. I mean,it is not on the front page and any good writer wi.ll use a littl"" "'i .... of wi t and humour to make a poin+- ·, '!•1ild Time In ~i ld Cove.' MR . CHll...IRMAN (McNicholas) : Order, please! The hon. the me .mber ' s time has elapsed . MR. CALLAN : Thank you , Mr . Chairman . I v1i~l get back to it at so me other time . MR. DINN : Mr . Chairman . MR. CHAIP.tQ.N : The hon. the Minister of Labour and 1•lanpo wer. MR . DINN : Mr .

Chairman, first of all ,let me say that what we are talking about here today is the Interim Supply Bill and the hon . member,for the first time to my knowledge 1ha s addressed some of the items 1109

March-27,1984 Tape No.415 ah-1 MR.DINN: address some of the items that are in the Interim Supply Bill with respect to transportation,and I congratulate him for that. I do also want to congratulate the han. member for writing a letter on behalf of his constituents. I can say, for example, that I was in Municipal Affairs for over three and a half years, I was in Transportation for some months and the han. member, I believe, was first elected during his reform period - !m.CALLAN: One day short of a year.

MR.DINN: One day short of a year or whatever, but you were elected at that point in time and I was in ~unicipal Affairs during that period of time and quite honestly cannot remember the han. member writing a letter to Municipal Affairs on behalf of his constitutents at that point in time. But I do congratulate him for taking up the challenge that the Premier threw out to him toda y to write letters on behalf of his constituents. We are, Hr. Chairman, talking about Interim Supply and the han. member wants, I believe, something like five miles of road paved in his district. MR.CALLAN: Thirty-five miles.

MR.DINN: Thirty-five. Well 1 it is a little bit difficult to get into thirty-five miles of road. I realize that the government has kind of gone out of its way this year to p·ut monies into road re- construction and paving,our secondary road programme and so on.' For e~ample, for federal/provincial progra1nmes - - - the Province will be putting in $39.7 million for road 1 1 1 0

March 27,1984 Tape No. 415 ah-2 MR.DINN: reconstruction and paving this year. And for the normal roads programme , of course, we have something like $21 million. Now the hon. member will realize that $39.7 million is a federal/provincial thing. These funds are the provincial share, I understand. DR.COLLINS: No, that is the total. MR.DINN: That is the tota,l 1 is it' ~ the total of the federal/provincial programmer So that will be decided by a joint federal/provincial committee.

And I can tell the hon. member that I drove the Trans­ Canada Highway last year and the Trans-canada Highway programme covered roads in the hon. member's district, covered road reconstr:uction and paving. We have $21 million this year in the Transportation budget for the normal programme. DR.COLLINS: MR.DINN: All provincial 1 of course. All provincial. Yes,every dollar, every single dollar provincial for road reconstruction and paving and some bridge work in the Province. And this year we have also added another $15 million for a new programme.

Now we said that we could not afford new programmes, but we realize the condition of the roads in the Province and that we have to put some extra dollars into our road reconstruction and paving and bridge work in the Province.

And I would hope the hen. gentleman does get some dollars for roads in his district and I compliment him on taking the Premier's advice this afternoon during Question Period when the Premier advised the hon. member that he should start fighting 1 on behalf of the constituents in his district and communicating with ministers of government to indicate what his priorities are,as I am sure all hon. members~ I am'certainly sure that all hon. members ._, 1 1 1 1

March 27,1984 Tape No . 415 ah -3 MR .DINN : on this side of the House continually do . I know when I was in Municipal Affairs and Housing,members in the Rouse at that time wrote letters and ba~ically inundated the ministers with letters on behalf of their constituents to get water and sewer work done~ to get artisian well programme~ started in their districts. MR.SIMMS: Roads. MR .

DINN: An d for the local roads and so on.And I compliment the hon . member for addressing, at least, one of the items in the Interim Supply bi ll where we are attemp tin g to have some capital dollars approved and some current do lla rs approved so that we can get on with the programme before the construction season starts this year, so that we ·can get on with 1 1 1 2

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 416 PK - 1 MR. DINN: paving roads, reconstrticting roads, whether they be out in the hon. member's district of Baie Verte-White Bay (Mr. Rideout) with respect to the Wild Cove Road or the Westport Road. I hope we get some funds for Baie Verte-White Bay district this year to finish the Westport Road. I remember shortly after the hon. ~ember saw the light and carne to this side of the House that I ventured down the road to Westport, and it was not in very good condition at that point in time. MR. RIDEOUT: It was one day after. MR. DINN: As a matter of fact, it was one day after.

The member has been fighting'on behalf of those constituents - MR. SIMMS: You did not realize ~ntil then what a good member he was. MR. DINN: - in his district. There may be some people in Newfoundland who do not realize what a good member the han. member for Baie Verte-White Bay is in his district. MR. RIDEOUT: As a matter of fact, that road was started while I was over there. MR. BAIRD: As a matter of fact, as the han. member says, the beginning of that road, which ' was not too bad, the first few miles of that road was started while the han. member was i'n the benches on the opposite side of the House.

How long is that road? MR. RIDEOUT': Twenty-two miles. MR. DINN: That road is twenty-two miles long and, i~ the short period of time that the hon. gentleman has been representing the people in Baie Verte-White Bay, that road, as · I say, was started when he sat in a seat on the other side of the House, and it w·ill be completed hopefully this year. If we get a few dollars this year for road reconstruction, etc., down in Baie Verte-White Bay, 1113

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 416 PK - 2 MR. DINN: · then he can mark up another success story in Baie Verte-White Bay for the road to Westport because that will be finished this year, hopefully, i.f we get .enough funds. I see this year we got an additional $15 million for road reconstruction and paving and bridges in this Province, and hopefully the Westport Road will be done because that is one of the roads that I know very well .

I was down not only with the hon. member, but a year or so before that I was down .to Westport and we had a ·very good time down there and I never got an opportunity to get back since that time, and I hope to get down there to thank the people down there for their hospitality and the great time that they gave us that night down in Westport. And, as a matter of fact MR. RIDEOUT: They will invite you back now when you finish the road. MR. DINN: The hon. member says I will get invited back when the road is comoleted. But I can recall going down that road on that dark night - what month of the year was that? MR.

RIDEOUT: ~I!R. DINN: April. About.April, with the hon. member and we had a great time down in the community hall. It was the Firemen's Ball, I believe - MR. RIDEOUT: Right. MR. DINN: - in Westport and we had a great time down in Westport. And I think, you know, finishing the road to Westport, rather than resettling the people, is the way to do it in this Province, because we have to believe in rural Newfoundland. And I say this as a St.

John's member, if we did not have th .e fishery and the forestry and the mining industry in this Province we might as well all pack up and go to Toronto, because we all basically live on the primary resources and the people who 1114

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 416 PK - 3' MR. DINN: work in our primary industries and secondary industries in this Province. That is what we are all living on. That is what the salaries of the members of the House of Assembly, the people who work in government get pai.d ·from, by the sweat of the brow . of the people from - MR. YOUNG: Out around the bay. MR. DINN: - out around the bay, as the han. member for Harbour Grace (Mr.

Young) says, and so eloquently says sometimes when he speaks in the debates in this House and I hope to hear him on Interim Supply here this afternoon, or some day during the next few days, because he speaks very eloquently of the people in rural Newfoundland whom he knows so very well. So, Mr. Chairman, as I say, I congratulate .the han. member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) for getting up today and · addre·ssihg some of the problems in his district.

I believe he is the first han. member since the Interim Supply debate started who actually got up and addressed the issues of the day in this Province, the roads in his district. As I say, I compliment him on writing the letter, having been brought to task by the Premier today and almost pushed into, shoved into writing a letter to the Minister of Transportation lMr. Dawe) on behalf of his constituents. I compliment him for that and I hope that he continues in that effort to the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook) and the Minister of Public Works lMr.

Young and the ministers in this government so that they are aware of these problems. Most of the ministers are aware of many of the problems in not only the Bellevue district, but the fifty-two districts in this Province and attempt to do whatever they can to assist and make sure that we have good roads, good communications, good water and sewer services and so on, and I think it behooves us all to every once in a while to get up and speak about the government and how · it interacts with our constituents and what 1 1 1 5

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 417 SD - 1 !'1R. DINN: we can do on their behalf. So I rose in the debate this af~ernoon~ .Mr. Chairman, to compliment the hon. member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) for getting up in his place and talking about ~he issues that concern him and his district and, I am sure, concern m~ny of his constituents. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not think I have a lot of time left but I do want to make a few other points with respect to the St. John's area because I think this is a very wide-ranging sort of debate.

When we talk about Interim Supply,we are talking about $601 million and we are talking about dollars that we want to get approved fairly quickly in the House before the budget is approved,because we want to get out there, especially in the Department of Transportation and Municipal Affairs and the other departments were we are going to do some capital work in the Province. I want to say that I get a little bit disturbed when I do read some of the items in the paper as the paper sometimes refer to the city of St. John•s and the fact that some of the members in St.

John •· s ·do not really do a lot of work on behalf of their cons·tituents 1 and make sure that St. John •· s receives · .,. MR. CHAIRMAN (McNicholas) : Order, please! The han. member's time has elaps:ed. MR. DINN: Thank you very much, I>ir. Chairman. r will get on to that topic a little later on. MR.~ CHAIRMAN: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY : Mr . Cha~rman, is there anything as boring and rnonotono·us and tedious to listen to in this House as· the whining and complaining and the groaning of the han .. gentleman who just took his seat? You know, Mr. Chairman, a few years ago when Mr.

Moores was Premier 1 1 1 6

March. 27, 1984 Tape No. 417 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: sitting opposite there, he and I used to chat once in a while behind the curtain and many a time he said to me, 'You know', he said, 'the problem that I have in my caucus? •· And I said, ''No, Frank'· what is the proolem? '' He said, 'I can only get the dirt bags up to speak. The people in there who can debate, who can articulate policy, who can enunciate government policy' , he said, ''they w-ill not get up to speak' . MR. STAGG;' A point of order, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN (_McNichol·a·s)_: member for S'tephenville. MR. STAGG: A point of order, the hon.

Of all the unparliamentary words that I have h.ea·rd in my day1and I have heard quite a number of them having sat in the Chair for approximately four years· when th.is-H:ouse was as rollicking as it ever was, I do not think I ever heard anyone describ~ qn hon. member or hon. members in that manner. So I would suggest that the ho~. member should ~e asked to w-ithdraw. It is a most disruptable aspersion upon any hon. member. MR. NEARY: To the point of order, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Chairman, the hon. gentleman did not quote from the Standing Orders of the House, Beauchesne or anything else,_ he just gets· up and starts dictating to the Chair,, telling the Chair that what I said was un­ parliamentary-. Mr. Chairman, it is not unparliamentary. MR'.-STAGG: It was unparliamentary. MR. NEARY: I defy th.e hon. gentleman to quote h-is· source, to show w;1ere - MR. SIMMS: unparliamentary. Beauchesne lists it as MR: •. NEA-RY: Beauchesne does not list it as unparliamentary. And I am only repeating, Mr. Chairman, what 111 7

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 417 SD - 3 MR. NEARY: I was told by a former Premier of this Province. If the cap fits the hon. gentleman he should wear it. I am not zeroing in on any particular individual, Mr. Chairman, and I would say that all the hon. gentleman is trying to do MR. TOBIN: Yes, you are. MR. NEARY: No, I am not. All the hon. gentleman is trying to do is cause a fuss in the House, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN ' (McNicholas).: To that point of order, I have had a quick check of Beauchesne and that particular word is not out of order. MR. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

So what Mr, Moores, Frank, used to say, he would say, 'All I can do 1 Steve 1 is get the dirt bags; the only ones r can get up to speak are the dirt bags. Now we have some good debaters on our side of the House,' and he would list out the people whom '1e thought were good at debating. MR. TOBIN: Who were they? Who were they? MR. NEARY: No, I would not want to embarrass hon. ge·ntlemen because now. Mr. Moores is in a very influencial position at the moment, Mr. Chairman. He has ended up again the king maker. He always seems to land on his feet, he is a survivor. He is one of th.e advisors, by the way, to Mr.

Mulroney on the offshore policy. Now the Premi'er may · not let Mr. Moores in his office wh .en he wants an appointment. Mr. Moores has attemrted on a number of occasions to make an appointment with the present Premier but he does not want him around, 1118

March 27. 1984, Tape 418, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: he will not give him an appointment. And is it any wonder that Mr. Mulroney will not come to Newfoundland? Do you know that Mr. Mulroney has yet to visit this Province since he became leader of the Tory Party of ·Canada? He has visited every other province in Canada, Mr. Chairman. Anyway, I will deal with that matter later. As Mr.

Moores used to say, 'Therein lies my problem. ! have people who can debate, they will not get up and debate and,' he said, \half the time we have to hid .e our light under a · bushel because the ministers and the members who can articulate the wonderful policies of our side of the House will not get up and speak. But, 1 he said,' one thing I can count on, I can always count on the Minister of Labour and Manpower(Mr. Dinn) .1 He said, 1We go into the caucus and every day he volunteers to get up to speak. And every time he would stand Mr. Moores used to cringe, Mr. Chairman. MR.

TOBIN: What did he say about the member for Mount Scio(Mr. Barry)? MR. NEARY: Now 1 I will continue with my letter from the young lady in distress who is looking for employment. And I have to say, ~· Chairman, that I hope,as a result of my

summary, we can focus on this letter, typical of the letters we are getting from all over Newfoundland and Labrador from young people in distress, young people who are brokenhearted, families who are brokenhearted because their twenty-three and twenty-four year old sons and daughters cannot find jobs. And I hope when I take my seat that the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) will get up and participate in the debate on Interim Supply, not saying that he is one of the dirt bags o~ ,not, but I notice that he has been awfully silent this session of the House. I am amazed that he has been able to restrain himself as long as he has, that he has not gotten 1119

March 27, 1984, Tape 418, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: up and had a few darts at our new colleague, the member for Mount Scio(Mr. Barry). But I have no doubt that before the session is over he will be up ranting and raving and attacking - going on the attack. MR. BAIRD: He will not disappoint you. MR. NEARY: Anyway, Mr. Chairman, I want to get back to more important things here. This particular young lady was forced to go back home, could not stay in St.

John's any longer, got lonely, broke, no money, not a cent, as is so typical of the comments that we get in the letters and the phone calls from families and from young people looking for jobs, went back home and is now telling me that she is fed up looking for work. They go to Canada Manpower and they laugh at them. They say, Do you have any relatives on the Mainland? MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: Are you going to table that? I am not reading from anything, Mr. Chairman. Do you have any relatives on the Mainland? they say. If you do, Canada Manpower will say, you had better get going.

One lady told me, she said, when I was in St. John's I phoned 'Fred Stagg' and he told me that there was nothing he could do for me and he pointed out to me the seriousness of the unemployment problem in this Province. Now, Mr. Chairman, how can an hon. gentleman in all conscience sit on that side of the House and support an administration that by his own admission has created a financial mess and an economic mess in this Province like the administration opposite?

They have mismanaged the economy through their incompetence and their negligence and that hon. gentleman continues to support that administration and can only look young people in the eye and say, Look, I know your plight, I know your problem, 1120

March 27, 1984, Tape 418, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: I know you are frustrated , I know you are angry, but there is nothing I can do. Well, there is something the hon . gentleman can do . rnstead of getting up and lashing out at my triend 1 the member for Mount Scio, or, Mr . Chairman, having little darts at the member for Port au Port(Mr. Hodder, his favourite target, what the hon. gen tleman should do is stand up and be a man, Mr. Chairman, and not a mouse, and tell the young people of this Province that he is supporting an administration that has Newfoundland on a ~isaster 1 1 2 1

March 27;1984 Tape No. 419 ah-1 MR.NEARY: course, that their policies have practically ruined Newfoundland, that they intend to suck theblood out of young people and people on socia~ assistance and sick people. And they intend to crucify Newfoundlanders because of their stubbornness , Mr. Chairman, because of their stupid policies, because of their one failure after another. The han. gentleman should get up and have the courage to say, look, I am ' supporting an administration that is going to turn Newfoundland into a welfare state - if we are not already there. DR.

COLLINS: Are you looking for an invitation to cross the House or what? MR.NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the han. gentleman used to be a Liberal at one time,like a good many more han. gentlemen there opposite. PREMIER PECKFORD: He saw the light 1 though. All the Liberals over here saw the light. MR.NEARY: If the Tories came across the House the problem we would have with them would be making them forget they are Tories. They have been brain­ washed for so long and their minds are so buttoned-dm-m and they are so bigoted in their thinking that the Tories over there, if they came over, Mr.

Chairman, they would not be able to forget they are Tories. MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylward): The han. member's time has elapsed. MR.NEARY: have another go later. MR. CHAIRMAN: Stephenville. SOME HON.MEMBERS: How wonderful, Sir~ I will The han. member for Hear, hear! 1122

March 27,1984 Tape No. 419 ah-2 MR. STAGG: Now, Mr. Chairman, I have not had the occasion to speak in the Throne Speech debate yet and I am certainly looking forward to that eventuality, as I am sure all han. members are waiting for me to have my few words on that. We are on Interim Supply today,but the han. member gave me a certain amount of notice that he was going to bring up a letter from a constituent of mine who is protesting the fact that she was unemployed.And I must say that the young lady has made quite an eloquent plea.

She has writ~en many of the political figures in the Province and I have spoken with her. I know who she is. The . han. member has not revealed her name nor will I. But it is indeed a frightening situation that we find ourselves in with high unemployment,particularly youth unemployment.

But the han. member's analysis of it and his comments laying the blame at the foot of this government , of course, is typical of the way the han. member has _cavorted ·through political life now for some twenty-odd years or so, starting off as a great socialist on Bell Island in the 1959 election where he ran for the CCF,as they then were. MR. YOUNG: He was a PC. MR. STAGG: And he was a PC at one time, yes. I guess this was when he had his buttoned-do~m mind or whatever he had at that time.

And he then reincarnated himself in 1962 and managed to get himself elected to the House,and since that time has been a slavish adherent to his mentor,Mr. Smallwood,to whom he bows. I guess it is a sort of idolatry that the han. member holds Mr. Smallwood in.. We do hear him as a self-styled protector of the proletariat. But the han. member's policies and those of his contemporaries, 1123

Ma-rch 27 .,1984 Tape No. 419 ah-3 MR.STAGG: the government that he was part of and the government in Ottawa that he now supports-even though he said at one time that he would not trust Mr.Lalonde any further than he could throw him, with which we heartily agree, of course •. We heartily agree that you -cannot trust Mr. l·urner any further than you can throw him, or Mr. Chretien or any of the rest of them.

But the han. members opposite,who are now jumping on whichever band wagon happens to get down here first, are attempting to say that the Liberals in Ottawa have a solution for Newfoundland.- have given us quite a solution. In the thirty-five years that we have been part of Canada we have had a very minimal progression from what was general~y considered to be poverty by Canadian terms in 1949 1and in actual reality we have very close to the same poverty level today. We must concede that the member for LaPoile (Mr.Neary) is the Leader of the Opposition.

He has the office, he gets the pay, he gets on TV~ he leads off debate and so on, he has all of the things that are normally given to a Leader of the Opposition. So we have to assume that what he says 1124

March 27, 1984 Tape 420 PK - 1 MR. STAGG: on that side of the House goes. I only despair at what has happened to the electoral process in this Province if what the bon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) says is actually the policy of his colleagues.

Because I foresee in the next provL1cial election, once we get the offshore out of the way and once we get all the various other things out of the way," the policies of the bon. members opposite, particularly the nouveau members or the nouveau member are people who are swimming towards that sinking ship,' There are rodents who do that, and it is a flawed philosophy, I•lr. Chairman, to swim towards the sinking shipm 'Well,this is what the bon. members are, they are a sinking ship. They have been sinking since October 1971. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh·, oh! I MR.

STAGG: I have been here twelve years a couple of days ago, SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. STAGG: Hon. members are part of a sinking ship. They managed to get a tie election on 28 October 1971. Now, Mr. Chairman, it is obvious that -- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. STAGG: --I am getting to the hon. members now .

BecausL~!~e~ -~ start to talk about these days, when the han. member was turfed_. out of his comfortable office and turfed out of .' the motor pool and stripped of all of the accoutrements of office that he nad ...;o jealously looked at for years, then he embraced --/ them for a few years and then he was turfed out, turfed out in 1971., Well~hey were voted out in October 1971, but through ce~tain machinatior -·--·- they managed to stay in office until 18 January 1972.

There i·;ere twenty or so of them the!:· We did not know if there were nineteen or twenty-two of them--there were only forty-two members of the 1125

March 27, 1984 Tape 420 PK - 2 MR. STAGG: House at the time -: but they varied fran nineteen to twenty-two. In March 1972 1the people .of Newfoundland first told hon. members opposite that their philosophy was a philosoph y of despair and was doomed, and it was doomed ne ver to be resurrected in the political history ~f this country. They elected only nine members in 1972, and here we are,appro x imately fourteen years later , and how many members do they have? They have seven of their own and whatever ti:1e hon. ·member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) is, who has recently joined them.

For whatever reason the hon. member recently joined them. I suspect that his association with the party will be worthy of a footnote- in history at some stage and some person decides to study how politicians,who once had great potential,how they fell into obsecurity. I _! _ -- suspect that the hon member would not make a doctoral thesis ; no, it would at best a master's thesis, and probably the subject would be extremely dull. The hon. member brings up the various points about the party on this side of the House.

Well , we have been in power now for fourteen years 1and every time the people of the Province are asked to give an opinion on where they stand with regard to the philosophy and the principles of their politicians, which philosophy and which principles do they adhere t~ ~nvariably when the people of the Province are put to the test,they return this party. They returned the party of Frank Moores in 1972 overwhelmingly~ In 1975 the party went through __ '!::_ _ - - --- - -- - ·- a certain mid-term jitters . but the party was re-elected albeit with a reduced majority.

Then hOil . members opposite 1 in their cavorting for power and their lust for power ,and whatever other adjectives one would want to describe to them in their desire to get into office - ---- ---- -- -- ·----- MR. YOUNG: They brought home Don Jamieson . MR. STAGG: -they brought home Mr. Jamieson in 1979, yes, and they were- i?rac t.lca1l y annihilated. Y.ou know, it is a good thing for hon. members opposite that the Premier in 1979 1126

March 27, 1984 Tape 420 PK - 3 MR. STAGG: called a twenty- -· one day election, because twenty-one days is the minimum. If we had called a twenty-eight day 112 7

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 421 MJ - 1 MR. STAGG: election or a thirty day election, there are hon. members opposite who would not be here today - the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder), for instanceJ wh? is over there chewing his fingernails.

He is recollecting the tremulousness with which ~e looked at Stephenville,where I was running 1 and the Premier came in and we had a couple of meetings there and they went very welL And he was very, very concerned that the Premier might go down in Port au Port. 'As history would have it,if he had gone down,or even flown over in a helicopter, the hon. member \'lould have been practicing of his other vocations, I expect it probably would have been better for the hon. member. He went through the same problem in 1982. As a matter of fact, Hr.

Chairman, it is only because of my intervention wibh the Premier, I saidJ 'Donat go down to Port au Port~ Do not go down to Port au Port, the hon. member deserves a chance.' MR. SIMHS: There ~11ould be one less Liberal then. MR. STAGG: Yes, I understand. ~vhich brings me to another point, the member for Port au Port I understand,is soon going to become part of the Turner team. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR STAGG: I do not know if this is true or not, Mr. Chairman, but I understand that he is going to become part of the Turner team.

He brings with him very strong cred~ntials as far as political organization is concerne~. I will have to refer you to certain comments I made last year when I was referring to his record as it then was. It was where he was organizing on the West Coast and did not do very well 1 but he has no'11 added another gem to his arsenal. I understand he and the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) were very important figures in our recent victory in 1128

l-1arch 27,. 1984 Tape No. 421 HJ -· 2 MR. STAGG: Terra Nova .. So I understand that ~x. Chretien has an emissary out asking for the .member for Port au Port to join John Turner's team. So certainly we are hoping that all comes into fruit·ion. The member for LaPoile (~1r. Neary) has provided us with a new · shade of parliamentary language this afternoon. MR. CHAI~R (Aylward) : elapsed. MR. CALLAN: MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. CALLAN: Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the member•s time has Mr. Chairman. The hon. the member for Bellevue. Mr. Chairman, thank you . We just saw an example sitting down there, Mr.

Chairman, of a man who loves poking fun at other people, especially,of course, the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder). But what the member failed to mention, Mr. Chairman -he mentioned about how the PC party went down in 1975 -,but he failed to mention . that among the people who went down was the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg). MR. STAGG: MR. CHAIRMAN: member for Stephenville. MR. STAGG: A point of order, Mr. Chairman. A point of order, the hon. the Mr. Chairman, this theme has come up on several occasions. It was brought up by the Evening Telegram in 1979.

I just want the hon. member Eo get this straight when he talks about the careers of -parliamentarians, of which we are 1129

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 422 SD - 1 MR. STAGG: · all one or many, I did not run in the election of 1975. And if I had run in the election of 197S,the member for Port au Port (Mr. "Hodder) would still be working at his weekly newspaper or whatever he was doing at that time. He availed of the poweL vacuum that was left in that area when I did not run. So I did not get defeated, I have run four times and I have been elected four times. So let us get that straight. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. HODDER: To that point of order, Mr. Chairman.

MR. ·CHAIRMAN (Ay lward): To that point of order, the han. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Chairman, in 1975 the member• ·s· district was composed of what are now two districts, one was Stephenville and one was Port au Port. It was very interesting, Mr. Chairman, that when he left both districts,including the third district in Bay St. George •·s , St. George's , went to the Liberal Party. And the conclusion, . Mr, Chairman, was that the hori. member had done such_ a bad job- ILe was the only Conservative in Bay St. George at that particular time- he lost three districts. Mr •.

Chairman, I would also say that if it were not for the sweep by the Premier the last time , I think the hon. gentleman from S-t:ephenville (Mr. Stagg) had the lowest number of votes of all the members on that side. And if ever there was a coattail member who got into the House of As ·s·embly, i:t is the member for Stephenville. SOME HON'. MEMBERS: Oh ., oh .. MR. CHATRMAN: Order, please! ' DR. COLLINS: To that point of order, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: hon. Minister of Finance. DR. . COL .LTNS: To that point of order, the Mr. Chairman, I think the hon, 1130

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 422 SD - 2 DR. COLLINS: member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) is sort of implying in some roundabout way that the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) was afraid to run in 1975, that he might not have been s·uccessful. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am probably one of the few people in th .e House who actually knows the truth. In those days there was just one suit of clothes for the Deputy Speaker,and the hon. member for Stephenville wore that ~uit of clothes as a very eminent Deputy Speaker in the years between 1972 and 1975.

I decided to run in 1975 and the word was out that I was .going to be Deputy Speake~ and th.e hon. member very gracious ·ly decided not to run so that I would have a suit of clothes to wear. And for the next four years I proudly wore his name on the inside of the sui·t of clothes for the Deputy Speaker. MR. CHAIRMAN CAylw'ard): Order, please~ · To that point of order, I rule that there is · no point of order. MR •. CALlAN: The han. member for Bellevue. Mr. Chairman, the member for Stephenville did not even give me an opportunity to explain what I was · about to say. I know that the member did not run in 1975.

But, of course, it is so typical of the member for s·tephenville, h.e knew that h.e was going to be defeated, he knew that the tide was going out, he knew that he had not done a good job representing the West Coast during the period be .tween 19 7 2 and 19 7 5 and , of course, like most rodents, he decided to abandon the sinking ship. And that is why he was not defeated, Mr. Chairman, because he did not have the intestinal fortitude to run and be a candidate. MR. HODDER: MR. CALlAN: He knew the jib was up, That is right, in 1975. But, Mr. Chairman, I do not want to dwell on that. What I want to do, Mr.

Chairman, is 1 1 3 1

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 422 SD - 3 MR. CALLAN: talk about the subject at hand 1 I want to talk about the Interim Supply Bill, Mr. Chairman. And,of course, we notice there that there is just less than $6 million in the Department of Fisheries for a three month period as compared to more than $100 million in other departments of ,government, I cannot see the Interim Supply Bill among the papers that I have here but at least I remember the figures. The Department of Fisheries 1 less than $6 million,.and there are other departments there which are well over $100 million. It shows, Mr.

Chairman, t~ priorities that this government has. You see~ Mr. Chairman, the last time I stood I talked about the Department of Social Services,and I talked about the devious and the intentional intent of government to give people employment for ten or twelve week but then to throw them on the unemployment rolls so that Ottawa is keeping them alive .rather than, say, the provincial coffers. But, Mr.

Chairman, that is not only true, it has been true, of course, for our fishermen for years and years because it was the wise and sensible government, . the Liberal government in Ottawa, that gave us the UIC for f~shermen and others. 1132

March 27, 1984 Tape 423 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: But, Mr. Chairman, it is not just the Department of Social Services. Last night, during the estimates ot the Department of Transportation, the minister did not elaborate to any great degree on i,t, but he did talk about the fact that for the last two years there has been a one-shift system. And what is happening, Mr. Chairman, of course, all over this Province, is that all of the regular employees with the Department of Transportation, the gentlemen who work during the Summer, when the Fall comes, they get laid off, they are thrown on the unemployment rolls.

So this government, of course, has,again, less dollars to pay out of its own coffers and the people are left to live on U.I.C. Let me go a step further, Mr. Chairman, than I went last week when I said that this government has deviously and intentionally planned to throw people on the federal U.I.C. claims and benefits. Let me go a step further than that, Mr. Chairman. I believe in my heart and soul, and every budget and every year that goes by,and every election that goes by, it is becoming more and more evident to me, Mr.

Chairman, that what this government, led by the Premier, is doing, is intentionally -the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) just alluded to it, he said, 'Yes, I am sorry, there is a lot.of unemployment, especially among the youth.' But I would say, Mr. Chairman, that it is the intention of this government to keep the people of this Province unemployed, on the welfare rolls or on the UIC. roles. It is a devious plot. HR. CARTI:R: ''i"7hy? !·1rt. <:::ALLAN:------------And -I ~·Till tell-t!1.e_r::ei:lber for St. John's North (Mr. Carter) and anybody else who wants to know why, it is because, Mr.

Chairman, when people are 'down and out; then they lose the will to fight, and this government wants to keep the people down so that they are 1133

March 27, 1984 Tape 423 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: unable to fight against the many injustices brought on them by this administration. Mr. Chairman, I have in my hand - and I was going to send it across to th~ Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) when I planned to send across the letter that I read from .earlier, but he is not here today - I have in my hand, Mr. Chairman, another example of the failures of the Peckford administration, of this government. In my hand, Mr. Chairman, is a piece of barite. I have half a dozen pieces down in my pickup. A~ER: I will swap you thirty pieces of silver. MR.

CALLAN: Yes, I would be glad to give it to you in the absence of the Minister of Transportation. This barite, Mr. Chairman, came from a barite mine at Colliers Point, which is no more than a mile from where my house is. in Norman's Cove, it is right in my back yard so to speak. Mr. Chairman, I was reading last week, by the way, in the newspapers, the Tory one and the Liberal one, they both had it there, about development regarding mines. They talked about all of the mines in the Province. I guess it was an

article that was given to them by the Department of Mines of this Province. But it was a little bit behind the times because they talked about the developers and they talked about what was happening at Colliers Point. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman, that there is nothing happening at Colliers Point. At this point in time there is nothing : happening. Would you believe, Mr. Chairman, that there have been five attempts by developers to try to develop that barite mine at Colliers Point? And the member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. McLennon), I heard him on the airways a while ago when he had a delegation in here and, of course, they, like me, are obviously 1134

March 27, 1984 Tape 423 EC - 3 MR. CALLAN: interested in making use of the barite that they have at Buchans. HR. CARTER: Is there a substantial quantity there? 1135

March 27, 1984, Tape 424, Page 1 -- apb MR. CALLAN: Yes, there is. Barite, of course, as the member for-St. John's North(Mr. Carter) and other members are aware, can be used for two purposes; it is used for pharmaceutical purposes 1but the main and the important use for it is for offshore drilling. It is very heavy, even though you would not say it watching me toss it up and down, but it is heavy and it is used for drilling purposes in the offshore; it settles to the bottom quickly and easily. But, Mr.

Chairman, why is it that the barite mine at Colliers Point, and why is it that the people in Buchans are not having any satisfactory arrangements as it pertains to getting their barite into production and into creating jobs, and all the spinoff that comes with it? It all goes back, Mr. Chairman, to the same thing that happened with Come .By Chance yesterday, why the announcement was made that the Corne By Chance oil refinery was going to be scrapped, it all goes back to one thing, it goes back to the lack of an offshore agreement. I believe, Mr.

Chairman, that there are a lot of members of the House of Assembly who do not realize - MR. CHAIRMAN(Aylward): has elapsed. MR. CALLAN: Order, please! The hon. member's time Mr. Chairman, I will keep my barite unless somebody wants to come and pick it up. I will continue in the same vein next time around, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the Minister of Finance. MR. CALLAN: Certainly goodness there must be someone else on the other side. 1136

March 27, 1984, Tape 424, Page 2 -- apb DR. COLLINS: Mr. Chairman, it is hard to get an opportunity to speak on this bill, even though .I introduced it, there are so many members on this side of theHousewantinq to speak. This is the first opportunity I have had to squeeze in a word all afternoon. I am glad to add ·just a few remarks to it. . I would like to pick up on what the hon. member just said,though. One of the burdens of his message was that there is some devious plot in the plans of this government, particularly through it budgetary exercises, to keep people down.

I think by keeping people down he meant to keep them unemployed. I would just like to answer that ridiculous charge. Really, itis a totally ridiculous charge, it hardly merits scrutiny, but I think it has to be answered.

But just before doing that I would like to correct a misconception that the han. member presumably has when he complains that in the Interim Supply Bill the Department of Fisheries is allotted somewhat less that $6 million when, for instance, the Department of Transportation is allotted something like $117 million,and he said that this is an indication that this government is not interested in the fishery and so on and so forth. Now, of course, that is a total misconception. I am amazed at the han. member even bringing it up, because he is a bright member, he is an interested member and so on and so forth.

He must have brought it up just for argument's sake, just as a debating point, because he knows that the Department of Transportation actually does things, delivers things, that its job is to actually give out and build and create and grade and pave, and so on and so forth 1 and it needs money to do that, obviously, because it is a very costly thing that that Department of Transportation takes on,

whereas the Department of Fisheries is entirely different. They are 1137

March 27, 1984, Tape 424, Page 3 -- apb DR. COLLINS: promoters. The Department of Fisheries does not get out and process fish, it does not handle products, it promotes, it assists, it studies, it does things for the industry and, of course, that is an entirely different function and it requires an entirely different funding approach.

So just to say that because we give $117 million to Transportation and $6 million, in the Interim Supply Bill that is, to Fisheries, it means that we are looking at Fisheries at perhaps one-twelfth the importance of Transportation is totally ridiculous and it is something that I just wanted to comment on to show ho~ silly it was. Now on the other point he made, that the budgets somehow or _other are designed to create unemployment, that again is ridiculous but it has to be answered.

I think that if you look at the budget, and at the budgets that have been brought in by this adrninistration,you will see that they are designed to try to give the maximum employment that we can possibly do with the resources at our disposal. I will not go over all the past budgets, but 1138

March 27, 1984 Tape No. 425 MJ - 1 DR. COLLINS: . I just point to this particular budget. For instance,in this particular budget we are funding public buildings and those public buildings are to give employment. For instance 1 we are continuing the building of the Confederation Building Complex. Ithas been subject to some criticism for our doing that in this time of economic difficulty,but I think we must remember two points. Firstly, it has been looked at and it has been determined, after a study ·; that it is cost effective ; .

In other words, ultimately government will be well served financial-wise when we have many of the office ·s which are now in rented premises in our own premises, even though we have to cover the capital cost of that extention. But that is one thing we are doing. We are building,for instance, an Arts and Culture Center in Labrador. That again not only satisfies a need, a