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May 5,

SOCIAL

SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Eddie Joyce, MHA for Bay of Islands, substitutes

for Dale Kirby, MHA for St. John's North for a portion of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Christopher Mitchelmore, MHA for The Straits

White Bay North, substitutes for Lisa Dempster, MHA for Cartwright L'Anse au

Clair for a portion of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, George Murphy, MHA for St. John's East,

substitutes for Gerry Rogers, MHA for St. John's Centre.

The Committee met at 9:10 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Littlejohn):

Good morning, everyone and welcome to the Social Services Committee of

Estimates. This morning we are

doing Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs along with the Office of Public

Engagement.

Good morning, Minister, and to your staff a warm welcome.

The normal process is that we normally give you a few minutes for opening

remarks and introduce your staff in a second, Sir.

Before I start, maybe we will start with Mr. Joyce.

We will introduce the members of the Committee this morning and then we

will get started.

Eddie.

MR. JOYCE:

Eddie Joyce, MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. LETTO:

Graham Letto, Researcher.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Christopher Mitchelmore, MHA for The Straits White Bay North.

CHAIR:

George.

MR. MURPHY:

George Murphy, MHA for St. John's East.

MS WILLIAMS:

Susan Williams, Researcher.

CHAIR:

Mr. Little.

MR. LITTLE:

Glen Little, MHA for Bonavista South.

MR. CORNECT:

Tony Cornect, MHA for Port au Port.

MR. POLLARD:

Kevin Pollard, MHA for the District of Baie Verte Springdale.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

Those are the members of our Committee.

Minister, if you want to take a moment to introduce the members of your

staff this morning.

MR. KENT:

Sure. Good morning, Steve Kent,

Minister.

I have a lot of people with me and I will allow them to introduce themselves

starting with Sean to my right.

MR. DUTTON:

Sean Dutton, I am the Deputy Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs and CEO for

Fire and Emergency Services.

MS JANES:

Colleen Janes, Deputy Minister for Municipal Affairs.

MS COCHRANE:

Rachelle Cochrane, Deputy Minister for the Office of Public Engagement.

MS DAY:

Elizabeth Day, Executive Director with the Office of Public Engagement.

MR. SCOTT:

Paul Scott, Assistant Deputy Minister, Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. MERCER:

Cluney Mercer, Assistant Deputy Minister, Municipal and Intergovernmental

Affairs.

MS LEGGE:

Karen Legge, Assistant Deputy Minister, Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. GILBERT:

Bruce Gilbert, ADM in the Office of Public Engagement.

MR. DONNAN:

Hugh Donnan, Director of Communications, Municipal and Intergovernmental

Affairs.

MR. GUEST:

Kevin Guest, Manager of Communications, Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs

MS TIZZARD:

Heather Tizzard, Assistant Deputy Minister, Municipal and Intergovernmental

Affairs.

MS HAYES:

Rob y n Hayes, Departmental Controller, Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. CARTER:

Ken Carter, Director of Policy and Research, Office of Public Engagement.

MS TRICKETT:

Wanda Trickett, Departmental Controller for the Office of Public Engagement.

MS O'NEILL:

Leigh-Anne O'Neill, Executive Assistant.

CHAIR:

Just to remind members, before you speak please state your name and your

position. That way we will get it

picked up on Hansard.

Minister, you have fifteen minutes for some opening remarks.

If it is okay with you, and I think we have agreed that we will do the

Office of Public Engagement first.

Members of the Committee, you can find that in your Estimates booklet on page

2.12.

Minister.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. I am sorry we were a

few minutes behind. I appreciate

your patience and I hope everybody had a good Easter break.

It is good to be back.

I will not take fifteen minutes because I am sure you have a lot of questions

and there are a lot of issues for us to talk about.

I do want to take maybe five to just make some opening remarks.

Mr. Chair, I am going to make opening remarks about all of the entities that I

am responsible for so that we get that out of the way.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. KENT:

Then, we will get into the detail on the Office of Public Engagement.

Starting with Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs, we deliver programs and

services to enable people to enjoy healthy, safe, and sustainable communities

that are supported by strong local governments.

We support the financial stability and viability of municipalities and

the efficient and effective delivery of municipal services.

The department also assists municipalities in meeting their

infrastructure needs and provides the financial and administrative tools to

support sound municipal government.

Staff of the Department of Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs provides

support to the Premier and Cabinet in the conduct of intergovernmental affairs.

This would include participation in key forums such as: the Council of

the Federation and Council of Atlantic Premiers, bilateral meetings with other

governments, and the negotiations of agreements.

In addition, our department routinely provides assistance and support to

government departments in a negotiation and review of agreements to ensure there

is consistency with the government's intergovernmental policies and priorities.

Sixty-nine intergovernmental agreements were signed in 2013-2014.

Our advocacy efforts on behalf of the Province have recently included meetings

with Infrastructure, Communities and Intergovernmental Affairs federal Minister

Denis Lebel, Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney, diplomats, and senior

officials in the Department of National Defence.

At a higher level, the department is also involved in a number of key

horizontal initiatives including: the Provincial Solid Waste Management

Strategy, the Arctic Opportunities Initiative, the Violence Prevention

Initiative, and the Climate Change and Energy Efficiency initiative.

We continue to work with municipalities in this Province and key stakeholders

including Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador and the Professional

Municipal Administrators to build strong, vibrant and sustainable communities.

We have listened and we are in the process of a comprehensive review of

the fiscal framework.

The department is working closely with MNL throughout the process, which we are

working to conclude in time for Budget 2015.

An important part of this review is holding consultations with various

stakeholder groups and the general public to ensure that the views of

municipalities, local service districts, residents of unincorporated areas, and

all who utilize municipal services are considered.

To date, as part of Phase 1 of the consultation, sixteen consultation sessions

involving over 470 registrants have taken place.

We have included Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador, Professional

Municipal Administrators Association, members of the Rural Secretariat councils,

and various local service districts.

Phase 1 of the consultation concluded last week during the MNL Symposium

in Gander. A discussion document,

including a

summary of what was heard in Phase 1, was presented and a good

discussion ensued with our municipal partners regarding the key areas of

importance to municipalities.

There have also been about eighty online surveys and numerous written responses

received to date. In order to allow

residents as much opportunity as possible to provide feedback, we have recently

extended the deadline for written submissions and for participation in the

survey as part of the fiscal framework consultation to June 30.

It is important that we ensure all residents have the opportunity to take

part in the review so that we can use their feedback to ensure we are building

strong communities across Newfoundland and Labrador.

Phase 2 of the consultation is now underway.

Over the coming months meetings will be held with targeted stakeholders

involved in municipal service delivery such as, economic development,

recreation, waste collection and disposal, environment, infrastructure,

firefighting, bylaw enforcement, and land use planning.

The goal of this review is to identify options to change the way services are

delivered, paid for, and shared to better position local governments in

Newfoundland and Labrador. The

consultation Web page is available on our department's site.

The page outlines the various ways interested parties can submit their

feedback including completing the survey.

In addition, through this budget, we are delivering a number of important new

programs which will directly benefit municipalities in this Province.

As you know, we are allocating $200 million to a three-year program for

the period 2014 to 2015 to 2016 to 2017 for new municipal infrastructure

projects. This funding will allow

municipalities to secure, develop, and improve infrastructure for residents and

support long-term growth and sustainability.

Approval letters have now been distributed to many of the municipalities across

the Province including the twenty-two that receive multi-year capital works

funding, along with some of the municipal capital works project approvals for

the remaining eligible municipalities.

This will better position our municipalities to get contracts awarded

early so that they can take advantage of our relatively short construction

season, which feels like it is getting shorter all the time.

We look forward to participating with our municipalities to make

announcements on these projects in the coming months.

I would like to speak for a moment about water quality.

Clean and safe drinking water is a high priority for my department and

its support of municipal infrastructure.

In 2012-2013 $31 million was invested in drinking water related projects,

including new facilities and upgrading of water treatment infrastructure,

distribution systems, and feasibility studies.

As a result of a review of water quality issues, government has initiated

the implementation, where appropriate, of advanced drinking water systems, or

water kiosks. These units are now

planned, under construction, or in operation in eighteen communities.

In the area of waste management, we continue to make significant progress.

In May of 2007, the provincial government announced the implementation of

a multi-year Provincial Solid Waste Management Strategy to ensure effective and

efficient management of solid waste in Newfoundland and Labrador.

To date, we have had a 60 per cent reduction in the number of disposal

sites relative to 2002, and we are well on our way to the 80 per cent dump

closure goal of the strategy.

With the Central Region operational, 64 per cent of the Province's population is

disposing of waste in a lined landfill.

As of March 31, a total of $147 million has been invested in the

Provincial Solid Waste Management Strategy; $84.5 million by the provincial

government and $62.5 million from federal gas tax funding.

In Labrador, we have worked with the Towns of Wabush and Lab City to close the

local incinerator and establish a well-managed landfill for that area.

We are working with local leaders throughout Labrador to find appropriate

solutions to the unique challenges that we face in that region.

We will continue to work with communities as we proceed towards full

implementation of the strategy by 2020.

We have budgeted about a quarter of a million dollars in 2014-2015 towards

planning and hosting of meetings of the Premiers and national Aboriginal

organizational leaders, the Council of the Federation, and the Conference of New

England Governors and Eastern Canadian Premiers, all taking place in 2015.

I would like to talk about Fire and Emergency Services for a moment.

We continue to invest in key programs in the area of Fire and Emergency

Services to help bolster and support these important municipal responsibilities.

Through this Budget, I am pleased to note that we have committed $4.5

million for vehicles and over a half million dollars for fire protection

equipment.

With over 270 fire departments in the Province, we are always challenged to

ensure that we are providing the best services we can around the Province;

however, recognizing these essential services are priority areas for the

government, we continue to make significant progress.

In partnership with the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Fire

Services, we continue to support the important work undertaken by our community

fire departments.

FES-NL is committed to continuing to provide an annual operating grant of

$41,000 to the association, in addition to our continued support of the Learn

Not to Burn Initiative through a $60,000 grant.

These funds are in addition to approximately $175,000 annually paid out

for workers' compensation premiums for volunteer firefighters and accidental

death insurance premiums at a cost of $20,000.

Furthermore, we also encourage collaboration and regionalization between fire

departments to continue to improve the efficient and effective delivery of fire

services in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I am pleased to say that we have seen some really good examples of this

in recent history including Trinity South Centre, Port au Port West, Port au

Port East, Steady Brook-Little Rapids, with ongoing discussions underway in

other regions as well.

Another good example of regionalization was some work recently undertaken on the

South Coast to create a regional radio system for six communities: Channel-Port

aux Basques, Isle aux Morts, Cape Ray, Margaree, Fox Roost, Burnt Island and

Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou. This

system, made possible through an investment of over $40,000, will allow better

co-ordination and sharing of services in the future for the mutual benefit to

the residents in the area.

As you know, I am also responsible for the Office of Public Engagement.

The office is collaborating directly with key partners, such as the

community sector, youth serving agencies, rural communities, and various

business and labour interests.

Working together, OPE is helping stakeholders and residents build better

partnerships, address challenges, and seize the incredible opportunities related

to our shared social and economic prosperity.

We are committed to helping young people because we recognize that they are the

leaders, mentors, and the volunteers of tomorrow.

This year we will be providing supports for youth and youth serving

agencies on a variety of topics including financial literacy, entrepreneurship,

and civic engagement. In total, the

office will provide over $3 million in 2014 to foster opportunities for young

people.

I would like to speak very briefly before I finish about the Open Government

Initiative. We are listening and we

want to provide the people of the Province with new opportunities to have a say

in the shaping of policy and decision making in government.

That is why we are implementing the Open Government Initiative.

It is believed that together we can identify issues and solutions.

We also recognize the need to tap into the insight and expertise for our

people. The launch of this

initiative is only the beginning.

Our commitment is to provide the public with as much information as possible,

without having to request it through the formal channel of ATIPPA.

We are always identifying new opportunities to increase access to

information and we want to hear from people as to how we can improve this.

As announced last month, the establishment of an independent review committee to

carry out the statutory review of the Access to Information and Protection of

Privacy Act will be conducted in an open, transparent and respectful manner, and

will engage citizens and stakeholders in a meaningful way.

We continue to make significant efforts to improve the lives of residents

and we continue to foster vibrant communities.

I have only touched on a few initiatives that my department and other entities

are working on. I certainly would

like to now open up the floor to members opposite for any questions that they

may have. As the Chair suggested, I

would like to start with the Office of Public Engagement, if that is okay.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

Shall the Clerk call 2.8.01?

CLERK (Ms Hammond):

Executive Council, 2.8.01.

CHAIR:

Chris.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will start off with 2.8.01, Minister's Office.

Under Salaries last year the budget was $71,700.

It was revised down to $37,000.

This year there is no money for Salaries.

Can you explain that, Minister?

MR. KENT:

Sure, thank you.

This reflects savings due to a Cabinet reorganization in October of 2013 which

resulted in no Parliamentary Secretary or associated support staff.

The Estimates reflect savings due to the removal of funding for the

Minister's Office and funding was transferred to IBRD for the Parliamentary

Secretary position. That is the

reason for the change.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

I would just like to ask: In the Office of Public Engagement, how many employees

are you responsible for?

MR. KENT:

I want to give you an exact number, so bear with me one second.

There are twenty-nine permanent positions in the office.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Are all of those filled?

MR. KENT:

Yes, they are all filled.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

Who lost their positions then? As

of March 31, 2013 the Office of Public Engagement had thirty-three staff

employed. Your telephone directory

still lists thirty-three employees, so how many positions are basically vacant

or who lost those positions?

MR. KENT:

There are temporary positions as well, as is the case in any department.

We created this new office over the last couple of years, as you know.

We brought together five existing entities within government from various

departments. Over the past year, we

have worked to put a new organizational structure in place and that has resulted

in different positions being created and being placed within different

divisions, so there has been some reorganization.

There were a couple of positions, I believe, that were eliminated as part

of last year's Budget process. I

can certainly get you more information on that if you wish.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Can we get a copy of your organizational charts since it is folded in a lot of

entities and how the Office of Public Engagement works?

MR. KENT:

Absolutely. We have a new

organizational chart that was recently finalized.

I would be happy to provide you with a copy of that.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay, great. In looking at any of

2.8.01 in your first explanation, seeing that there are no funds, that is

basically associated with all the cost of a Parliamentary Secretary?

MR. KENT:

Yes. In each of those budget lines

one, two, three and four there were funds transferred to the Department of

Innovation, Business and Rural Development to support the work of the

Parliamentary Secretary that as of October 2013 was moved to that department.

When I was in the Parliamentary Secretary role it was under the Office of Public

Engagement. When a new

Parliamentary Secretary was appointed he was actually appointed to Innovation,

Business and Rural Development.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay, thank you Minister.

Under 2.8.02 Executive Support, we see that last year's amount was $385,600, but

this year's salaries are $417,000.

Why the increase in salaries under Executive Support?

MR. KENT:

There were some savings. In the

revised numbers there were some savings that mainly resulted from delays in

recruitment. In terms of the

increase this year, that relates to salary increases which are standard

throughout government, the 2 per cent increase as per contracts.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Right. Under that

section under

Purchased Services which is about $54,000, what accounts for Purchased Services?

MR. KENT:

Purchased Services in that budget line includes things like photocopier charges,

printing costs, equipment rentals, office space, and expenses associated with

meeting space. Those are the kinds

of things that would be included in that budget line.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

Moving on to 2.8.03, Public Engagement, this

section I guess would

include all of your entities like the Rural Secretariat?

MR. KENT:

It would. It would include all of

the Rural Secretariat regional planners, which is why this salary line is one of

the more substantial ones in the Office of Public Engagement.

It includes our ten regional planners that are throughout the Province

working in every Rural Secretariat region.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I notice that the Rural Secretariat

annual reports and activity plans are not listed for 2012-2013 on your Web site.

I am just wondering when we can anticipate those public documents be made

available? Will we see a different

role for a reporting mechanism with an Open Government Initiative?

MR. KENT:

I am pretty sure those reports are completed.

CHAIR:

Elizabeth.

MR. KENT:

Wait for the light.

CHAIR:

Elizabeth, please. Elizabeth Day.

There you go Elizabeth.

MS DAY:

The office was not required to complete those reports last year because of the

reorganization. There will be an

activity plan prepared this year for the new Office of Public Engagement, which

will include all of the entities that were joined within Public Engagement last

year.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

There is no accountability on the actual reporting as to what the Rural

Secretariat did for 2012-2013?

CHAIR:

Minister.

MR. KENT:

No, that is certainly not the case.

In fact, there is a lot of information available on the work of the various

regional councils during that year.

I will ask Bruce Gilbert to comment a little further on what information is

presently readily available to reflect the work that was done in 2012-2013.

CHAIR:

Bruce.

MR. GILBERT:

Two things have happened. First of

all, when the OPE was created we were still in a world of individual reporting.

We had to create a new OPE reporting approach.

The other thing that happened is that we sought and received permission

to not have an activity report for every individual council of the Rural

Secretariat so we could roll it into one.

My understanding is those documents are prepared.

We will find them and get them to you.

CHAIR:

Minister.

MR. KENT:

I believe there are reports on that year.

If they are not online, we will endeavour to get them online.

They may not be the formal reports that had to be tabled in the House,

but we have information that we can make available to you from each of the

councils. That is not a problem.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay. I would also like to ask

about the status of the Community Summit 2012 Report, which is basically the

revised road map. Have the

objectives been revised, and has it been distributed?

I do not see anything publicly online?

MR. KENT:

You do not see the original report online?

MR. MITCHELMORE:

The original report is there, but it also talked that there would be a revised

report determining if the objectives were met.

There has been no update.

MR. KENT:

We are about to release the report on the next summit.

We have made great progress on the items that were identified in the

previous summit. The work that we

did in the recent summit really built on some of the strategic issues that were

identified.

In terms of how we have structured OPE and how we have focussed our staff on

different priorities, we have definitely taken into consideration the issues

that were raised at previous community summits.

The one that was recently held this year was the largest in our history.

We also, for the first time, had four locations in the Province

participating simultaneously.

There is some information that will soon be available highlighting all that was

accomplished at this year's summit.

To answer your question, that really builds on the work that was done in 2012.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

The Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat held sixteen training sessions.

Forty-one people were trained in 2012-2013; nineteen sessions, sixty-five

individuals during 2011-2012. It noted

that training sessions will continue throughout 2013-2014.

Can we have a list of what training sessions took place?

We are seeing a delay in information being made publicly available.

These things are available online, but we are not seeing anything for the

past year that would be made publicly available.

What were the costs to deliver those sessions?

What are your plans for the coming year of 2014-2015 for the Voluntary

and Non-Profit Secretariat?

MR. KENT:

We would be happy to provide information on whatever training has been completed

over the past year. Please keep in

mind that we have gone through a complete reorganization of the Office of Public

Engagement so some of the work that may have been ongoing in the Voluntary and

Non-Profit Secretariat, for instance, may take a different shape and a different

focus in our new office.

With our first full year under our belt it really has been a year of transition.

We recognize that training, as identified in the 2012 summit that you

referenced, is a high priority for the sector.

We also recognize that running small sessions for a very limited number

of people is not necessarily the most effective way to reach the people in the

sector and to meet the needs of various communities in the Province.

In working with SmartForce NL over the past year, we actually directed our

training resources into creating several online modules that are now available

for anybody who wishes to use them through SmartForce NL.

That is a positive step forward, I think.

We intend to evaluate how that is going, to see what the uptake has been and to

consider based on feedback from the summit, and based on feedback from

community organizations throughout the Province we want to get a sense of what

other training needs exist and what other modules we may want to create.

We need to get a sense of whether that format is the right format, but I

think it is a very positive step forward.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I think having access to the equipment that is needed to connect for training,

and if you have the telecommunications equipment, whether it is a projector and

screen or using some basic software, it does not have to be teleconferencing or

video conferencing, it can be Internet based, web based, where people could go

into regional centres, whether it be a town hall or community centre and link

up. That can link to a broader base

of our public institutions so that people in rural areas of the Province can be

connected, as well, at a fairly low cost.

I am just wondering: Is there any money in the budget where you could look at

doing such an initiative?

MR. KENT:

I would not say there is money in the budget specifically for that type of

initiative that you described; however, the beauty of the online training that

we have provided is that it is available to anybody with a computer anywhere.

The Rural Secretariat regional planners are our connection on the ground to the

regions of the Province. There are

certain resources available to them in the conducting of their work.

When they go into a community to lead an engagement session or a public

consultation or to do a workshop or a planning session with community

organizations or different sectors of the community, there are resources

available to them, like the resources that you describe.

We also want to eventually create an online resource to allow virtual

communities to exist. We want to

create a resource for the community sector that is a resource centre that is

virtual, that allows, for instance, by various regions of the Province, for

community organizations to post volunteer opportunities, to have a discussion

about issues that are of concern in their communities, to identify issues that

require further dialogue in a community and to bring people together in a

virtual way.

Geographically, we are a big Province.

For that reason we need to use technology more and more to connect

people, but that cannot and will not replace the need for engagement on the

ground, and the role of our planners is vital in doing that work.

To answer your question, there are resources available to them to do that

work.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Right.

The Office of Public Engagement, will it proactively discuss and develop policy

and decision-making advice it receives from these regional planners and Rural

Secretariat councils? We have not

seen proactive disclosure from the Rural Secretariat on the policy advice it is

giving government.

MR. KENT:

I believe those advice documents are available, and I am happy to make them

available.

Are they online now? I will just

ask Bruce to

CHAIR:

Bruce Gilbert.

MR. GILBERT:

I think for the past three or four years they have either been online on our Web

site or a list of them with a note saying they are available upon request, and

various players have requested them.

I think, even prior to that, there may have even been an ATIPP request for them,

which was deemed to be almost unnecessary since they were already there.

I think we are working now to have them digitally put online for easier

access.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

That is the point that I am making, is that the information is being it

appears that it should be readily available and that it is contained by

government, because there is very little, newly, updated information made

available through the Office of Public Engagement's Web site.

It goes back to what you have said to a number of other questions that I

have asked. You have undergone

reorganization but those documents should be publicly available.

They are not publicly available right now, not all of them.

CHAIR:

Minister.

MR. KENT:

Any of the information that has been recently developed may not yet be on the

Web site. Given the significant

reorganization we have done in building a new department, a new entity of

government, that has required us to do business differently.

We also recognize the need to proactively disclose more and more.

In keeping with the open government initiative that we are actually

championing through the Office of Public Engagement, I am happy to make that

information available. I agree that

more information should be online than ever before.

Those policy advice documents that are created by regional councils, we

are happy to proactively disclose them, to answer your question.

CHAIR:

Chris, your time has expired. Are

you close to will I go on to George and come back to you?

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I just have one other question there on the proactive disclosure piece.

CHAIR:

Okay, go forward.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

We have seen that restaurant inspections have come online.

You just talked about proactively disclosing information.

Do you have any future plans to proactively disclose additional

information?

MR. KENT:

Absolutely. We are challenging

government departments and agencies to disclose proactively more information

than ever before. On several

occasions I have reached out to my Cabinet colleagues, and the previous

ministers did the same thing, to encourage departments to identify opportunities

for proactive disclosure.

As part of the open government initiative through the open information pillar,

proactive disclosure is a high priority.

What we are going to attempt to figure out over the next six to nine

months is: What kind of information do people want to see available?

What kind of information do people need from government departments and

agencies, and in what format?

Then our role is to be the facilitator, to be the catalyst for change, and we

will work with other government departments and agencies to help them prepare to

disclose more information than ever before.

It is a high priority for me, it is a high priority for government, and

it is going to be a major focus in terms of the work we do through open

government over the next number of months.

CHAIR:

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you.

Good morning, Minister, and good morning to all your staff.

MR. KENT:

Good morning.

MR. MURPHY:

I know it is busy times for you with the transitioning and everything.

I hope you all had a good Easter because I think you have a minister here

who is going to make you work now.

I wish you all the best with that, and thanks for being here this morning.

Mr. Minister, just a couple of line items first before we get into some of the

policy questions around OPE. Where

was I I just lost my page.

MR. KENT:

Well, thanks for the Easter greetings in the meantime.

It is an astute observation.

I have been challenging people to work pretty hard and they have risen to the

challenge. We have gotten a lot of

work done over the last six or seven months and there is certainly a lot to get

done over the next year.

MR. MURPHY:

I know they are going to be busy but we will keep your heels to the fire on it.

The first line item so I do not backtrack a little bit here 2.8.05, Access

to Information and Protection of Privacy; a breakdown of your line here on

Transportation and Communications, because you had budgeted $12,000 last year,

that amount has gone up to $124,900.

I would like to get a breakdown of exactly what was spent here on

Transportation and Communications.

MR. KENT:

Sure. That is a good question, and

one that I anticipated, George.

First of all, the savings in the revised budget reflects savings due to reduced

travel within the ATIPP Office; however, the significant increase in funding

reflects one-time funding for the ATIPP review.

There is also a very minor reduction due to costs related to the Spending

Analysis Initiative. The bulk of

that budget line and there are several other places where the explanation for

the increase is similar is actually to support the work of the ATIPP review

that just started.

Now, as I have said in the House and at various other points, we are going to

provide whatever resources are required to the Committee to do their work, but

we felt it would be prudent to have some budget allocation, some dollars set

aside within the budget to address some of what that cost will be.

If the number is less than what we have budgeted at the end of the day,

great; if it is higher, then we will find the resources within our budget to

meet the needs of that committee.

We do not want resources to constrain the work of that review committee, because

I think we all agree that it is a pretty important piece of work.

MR. MURPHY:

Agreed.

Under Professional Services at the same time, there was nothing under budget for

2013-2014, the revised amount, of course, $50,000, but now showing $359,000.

MR. KENT:

The revised amount allowed for a budget allocation in the previous fiscal year

to support the start-up of that ATIPP review.

The increase of $359,000 is one-time funding for the ATIPPA review.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Professional Services, I guess the same explanation for that as well?

MR. KENT:

I am sorry; I thought we were talking about Professional Services.

MR. MURPHY:

I am sorry, Purchased Services my mistake the next line down from it.

MR. KENT:

Yes, it is an increase of $12,000 related to one-time funding for the ATIPPA

review. If you like, I can just

summarize the lines that have an increase related to the ATIPPA review, if that

would be helpful?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes. Sure.

MR. KENT:

Within Transportation and Communications it is a $114,000 increase.

Within Professional Services it is a $359,000 increase.

Within Purchased Services, the line you just asked about, it is a $12,000

increase. In the Supplies line it

is $7,500, and in Property, Furnishings and Equipment it is $7,500.

The total is about $500,000 that we have allocated within the budget;

but, again, we do not know what the review will cost.

We will provide whatever resources are required.

If it is less than that, great, if it is more than that so be it.

We will find the resources to support that work.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. I imagine we can get a

breakdown of that next year.

MR. KENT:

I suspect there will be regular updates posted from the review process in terms

of their expenditures. We certainly

hope that the review committee will proactively disclose as much information as

possible, and we will certainly encourage them to do so.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

When it comes to the requests for documents, I would like to just put in that

anything that is requested for, that we also get a copy, too, at the same time.

MR. KENT:

Sure, by all means, yes.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, I appreciate that.

I will start off basically with some of the questions around different

departments. I do not have too

many. I want to start off with the

Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat.

Are there any new initiatives this year to support volunteer

organizations that the department is planning?

MR. KENT:

There are a number. Of course,

there is the ongoing work, initiatives like the URock Awards.

We just held another Community Summit.

Basically, during this upcoming fiscal year we plan to act upon the

learnings and the findings that came out of the Community Summit so that the

initiatives we undertake are responsive to the needs of the sector.

We continue discussions with the sector on what their needs and

priorities are.

We continue to invest in training initiatives, like the one I highlighted a

little bit earlier. As well, we are

doing some new work this year around social enterprise.

It has been identified as a need in the sector.

We have seen some innovation around the Province that even some members

opposite would be familiar with in their own districts.

We think it is a real opportunity for the sector and a real opportunity

for government as well.

We have convened a working group and we intend to dedicate some resources to

advancing Social Enterprise in the Province.

That is one that jumps to mind as a new initiative.

The others will really relate to some of the findings of the Community

Summit. As I said, we are beginning

work on the development of an online resource hub.

That will have a regional dimension to it that will allow for online

discussion and collaboration within the community sector as well.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

There was a question, too, at the same time.

I think it was in 2010 at the minister's round table sessions that he was

having. A lot of volunteer

organizations talk about the high cost of liability insurance.

I am just wondering if government has

been tackling that particular question.

There has been some difficulty for some volunteer organizations that came

to that.

MR. KENT:

I am not sure if that issue received much attention at the recent Community

Summit. It is not an issue I have

had an opportunity, as the new minister, to deal with.

I have not heard representation from any community organizations during

my time on that particular issue.

If it is one that is of concern to the sector, it is one that we are happy, as

an office, to work with them to explore.

That may require collaboration with other government entities that would

have more of a role in that issue; for instance, the department that regulates

the insurance industry, Service NL, may have more to say about that.

That is quite often the case with OP.

We are the brokers of relationships between various government entities

in supporting all sectors but the community sector is one that has certainly

been a focus for us.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes. Another one that was

highlighted in the minister's round table at that particular time was tax

incentives for volunteer organizations.

I am just wondering, since it was highlighted back then, if government

has been looking at that and the things to it?

MR. KENT:

There are no particular initiatives that we have undertaken, to my knowledge,

related to that particular item.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

The Web site as well list some training opportunities, are they all fee based?

MR. KENT:

No. The training that is now

available through SmartForce NL is free of charge.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. KENT:

It was a considerable investment for us.

We worked with some other jurisdictions that had done some development of

training online for the sector. A

local company, Bluedrop, was actually engaged to help us update the material,

complete that work and make it available free of charge to anybody who has

Internet access and a computer.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes. Is it a good update?

MR. KENT:

Yes, I have been through the material myself.

I think it is quality.

The challenge for us, honestly, is getting people to connect with it and use it,

but that is true of lots of training opportunities.

We could run courses galore.

It does not mean people are necessarily going to show up and participate.

The beauty of having it available online is that people can access it free of

charge anytime, anywhere, on their own

schedule and on their own time.

They can go in and complete a part of a module or a module and come back

to it at another point in time. It

is very flexible, but we recognize that it is only one component.

There are other things we need to do to support capacity building within

the sector, and the Community Summit highlighted more of the things we need to

do. There will be a report on that

summit available very soon. I do

not believe we have released it yet but it is coming very, very soon.

It is almost finished.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

I am just wondering about any research and public engagement that the Rural

Secretariat will be doing this year, if you can give us an update on where you

are going to be going in the Rural Secretariat.

MR. KENT:

We have a partnership that has been in place for a number of years with the

Harris Centre at Memorial University to fund a number of community-based

research projects. There was a

significant event we were involved in executing over the past fiscal year that

really highlighted a lot of the work that has been done in this area.

We had the Community-University Expo in Corner Brook last June, sometime

around then, and as Parliamentary Secretary at the time I had an opportunity to

attend and we identified many more opportunities for the community sector and

for government and the university to work together, particularly to advance

community-based research.

We do have dollars allocated again this year to do further work in partnership

with the Harris Centre, and that will lead to five projects.

I will allow Bruce to expand a little bit.

There are a number of projects that will be funded through a grant that

we will provide.

CHAIR:

Bruce.

MR. GILBERT:

Yes, we provide a modest grant to the Harris Centre which we work with them to

determine, identify a couple of grad students to do research that is in line

with our lines of business. I guess

the dominant piece of community-based research support in our shop is through

the regional councils, the provincial council of the Rural Secretariat.

Many of these advice documents that are developed by the councils and

submitted to the various departments of the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador are underpinned by some form of research, some form of public

engagement and/or scholarly research, and it is flexible and it is responsive.

In other words, if a council in a region determines there is a youth

homelessness issue or something to that effect, they will ask us, we will

connect them. We will broker them

through our contacts at the Harris Centre and Memorial, and the College of the

North Atlantic, put together a team and they will basically swarm a research

project on that issue so that their advice documents are stronger, tougher, and

built on regional information that did not exist before.

All of that research is ongoing. In

any given region throughout a year there could be a research project underway,

but some regional councils do not have a research project in a given year as

well. So the Harris Centre, this

type of research with our councils, the VNP has research in the form of the

census which the minister could perhaps talk about, and we are also, as an

entity, involved in all kinds of more provincial-wide research projects that we

get invited to participate in.

We have quite a body of research going on, but it is regional community-based

research as we like to call it, not often high-level, scholarly, longitudinal

research.

CHAIR:

George, I am just trying to get an idea.

Do I need to come back to you?

Your time has expired, and I am going to go back to Chris.

MR. MURPHY:

No, I am good for now because I was going to move on to a different one.

CHAIR:

You were going to move on to a different topic?

Okay.

Chris.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I will try to get through this in the next allocation of time.

I do not have a lot of other questions.

I was going to ask the minister I guess where I have successful social

enterprises like SABRI and the Straits St. Barbe Chronic Care Corporation that

have put millions of dollars into the local economy in my district what you

were going to be doing to promote the return on social investment, but you have

already discussed that.

Getting back to the budgetary line items under 2.8.03, Public Engagement, line

10, Grants and Subsidies, there is almost $3.8 million.

I am wondering if you could explain what would fall under these Grants

and Subsidies and if you could either list them out or if we could have a list

with the dollar figures.

MR. KENT:

I am happy to provide more information.

The bulk of the funds in our Grants and Subsidies line under 2.8.03.10

relates to two things primarily: the support for the Community Youth Network

sites, which is over $2.6 million; and our Grants to Youth Organizations

program, which is about $660,000 roughly.

We also provide grants to Allied Youth and to the Community Sector

Council. There is some additional

grant funding for the volunteer and non-profit sector, as well as the funding

that I just referenced related to Memorial University.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

Could we have a list of all public engagement sessions involving citizens and/or

stakeholder group representatives conducted by your department, maybe broken

down by Rural Secretariat region?

MR. KENT:

Gladly. We can certainly give it to

you by region. Quite often, regions

will partner together in the execution of these sessions.

Our planners will often move from region to region to assist in

supporting various consultation sessions.

There has been an increased demand over the last couple of years for help from

our department in helping other departments conduct public consultation and

engagement sessions. The bulk of

our work in this fiscal year is going to be focused on the Open Government

Initiative, but that is not to say that we will not support other consultation

processes that are ongoing. In

other areas like the ambulance review and moose management, just to use two

top-of-mind examples, we have played a key role in supporting the sessions that

have taken place.

We have also just completed perhaps one of the largest engagement exercises

since the inception of the Office of Public Engagement: the Municipal-Provincial

Fiscal Framework Review in partnership with my other department.

The Office of Public Engagement played a key role in the first phase of

consultations. Just this past

weekend in Gander, we released the What We Heard document in partnership with

Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador and the Professional Municipal

Administrators to talk about what we have learned from the consultation process

to date.

We can certainly provide you with the list of sessions over the past year and we

can certainly provide, to whatever extent we can, a breakdown by region.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

Are we able to get details on the expenses for training associated with the

Rural Secretariat staff travel?

MR. KENT:

Sure. I cannot see why not.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

I am just not seeing how this would be broken down.

Would the majority of this travel, in the budget under Transportation and

Communications for Public Engagement, be the Rural Secretariat travel?

Does that include training where they would travel to either Gander or

St. John's or wherever to do staff training?

MR. KENT:

It is a big number because it supports the work of those ten planners.

In terms of the revised budget, there was some savings as a result of

efforts to reduce spending and travel to conferences and so on.

Then there is a very slight decrease of $600 due to a number of things.

Increased meal allowance rates per the new Collective Agreement

represented an increase, but then there was a decrease related to an out-year

adjustment associated with the creation of the Office of Public Engagement.

So, as a result of the office being created, there were a number of

budget areas where things moved from one part of the department to another.

That is what the savings represent as the department was consolidated.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

Under 2.8.04, Policy, Planning and Research, I guess this is where the former

Youth Advisory Committee would fit in.

I am wondering what really happened to that committee and are you going

to be re-establishing that committee?

MR. KENT:

At the time when the Office of Public Engagement was created, the Newfoundland

and Labrador Youth Advisory Council was already inactive.

There were no budget dollars that transferred from Advanced Education and

Skills to the Office of Public Engagement to support the work of that council

which was no longer active; however, from a youth engagement standpoint, as I

have referenced in response to some of your questions over the last month or so,

it is my intention to re-establish an entity.

It will not look the same, necessarily, and I believe we need to make a

concerted effort to engage young people of all ages.

In my mind there are three segments of the youth population that we need

to have a strategy around, and we are working on a proposal right now to launch

something that will impact those three groups: school age youth, youth who are

pursuing post-secondary studies, and youth who are entering the workforce and

starting their families and are beyond post-secondary.

I do not believe that we can effectively have a youth body that connects with

all three. I believe we need to

have a targeted approach for those three segments of the youth population.

I also believe that we need to have more young people engaged on our

regional councils. So I am

currently working on an initiative to do that as well.

I would foresee, for instance, regardless of their ages and backgrounds,

bringing together the youth from our Rural Secretariat Regional Councils on a

regular basis to provide a provincial perspective as well; but we will be

launching an initiative to reach out to those three segments of the youth

population and ensure they are engaged in a way that makes sense.

I really believe that the Open Government Initiative is going to provide us with

many opportunities to connect with young people on the ground in different

communities. Connecting with those

three segments of the youth population is a high priority for me.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Well, that certainly sounds key to any type of Population Growth Strategy.

I sat on a Regional Economic Development Board which the government

basically axed, but on it we did have a youth representative who was there and

that was really key. So it will be

nice to see if the Rural Secretariat is also going to be having a youth voice

there as part of their advice and policy planning sessions.

MR. KENT:

We will endeavour to have more young people this year on our Rural Secretariat

Regional Councils, but that is only one step.

Engaging with those three segments of the population is something that is

really important to me, and I intend to see it advance this year.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Is there any plan to move from appointments on the Rural Secretariat councils to

an elected type of office looking for people who have that interest and broad

range of scale? Is that something

you would consider?

MR. KENT:

I have not really contemplated making it an elective group, but I have

contemplated how to make it more inclusive.

Right now, I am interested in hearing from people in regions of the

Province who might be interested in serving, and I will certainly address that

more formally in the weeks ahead.

In terms of regional elected structures though, I think we need to be a little

careful. We will be talking about

regionalization quite a bit, wearing my other hat, through the fiscal framework

process that we are going through and there may be a need for some kind of

regional model or regional structure that could potentially involve an elected

body or perhaps not. It is too

early in the process to speculate on what may come out of that.

Specific to the Rural Secretariat Regional Councils, I would like to see more

people engaged. I would like to see

more people have actual opportunities to step forward and offer themselves to

serve. That is something that over

the next couple of months I think you will see some progress on.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I have some questions on the YouthNL.ca Web site.

I would like to know what the cost of it was, what monthly hits it

receives, and what youth actually had input in designing the Web site, who

manages it, and when will dated information come down?

MR. KENT:

That is a good list. We will

compile some information on that and provide it to you.

The Web site was constructed in-house.

We did not engage external support in doing that.

We had some support from the brand office.

We had some support through staff at Innovation, Business and Rural

Development, but it was an initiative that was driven by our Office of Public

Engagement staff.

The cost was minimal. It is also

hosted by OCIO, of course, so minimal cost.

We have done some updates already.

It is a fairly new initiative.

We have not done enough yet to drive young people to the site.

So as we launch the youth engagement initiatives that I was just talking

about, and as we continue with the work we are doing through Getting the Message

Out program, the GMO program, we have been promoting the new site but there is

still certainly more work to do.

We can provide you with the information that you have requested.

CHAIR:

Chris, are you just about done, or do I go back to George and come back to you?

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I guess you can go back to George.

I have about a half dozen more questions to ask on this section.

CHAIR:

Okay.

I am going to ask in terms of time, and we have a large department here,

Minister, and to our colleagues in committee, that our questions be we are in

Estimates, and some of this is straying into theory and philosophy and all the

rest. I am going to ask that we

stick to the Estimates piece, in the interest of time and what we need to get

through this morning.

George, please.

MR. MURPHY:

I just have one question before I pass it back to Chris.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. MURPHY:

It has to do with this department again and policy.

Just on the Strategic Partnership, Minister, when will the Strategic Partnership

have a new chairperson? As far as I

know, there is no chairperson there.

What is their

schedule for meetings?

Have they been meeting regularly?

MR. KENT:

The Strategic Partnership is going through significant change.

There was a process going on throughout 2013 to evaluate the Strategic

Partnership. There was some really

good work done in collaboration with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of

Labour and with the Newfoundland and Labrador Business Collation.

The Business Collation recently made a decision to discontinue its involvement

with the Strategic Partnership.

That has caused us to stop the work we were doing on the evaluation, which was

just about complete, and look at how we are going to refocus our efforts around

business labour engagement. I have

had a number of positive discussions, personally, with the Federation of Labour

and the Business Collation. Both

organizations have made representation to me recently on a new path forward.

We still have a role within the Office of Public Engagement dedicated to

business labour engagement. It is

still going to be a focus for us, but exactly what shape it is going to take is

going to be different than the Strategic Partnership that has existed since

2002. We were going through a

renewal and change process anyway, but the recent decision of the Business

Collation has caused us to go back to the drawing board a little bit.

We have met with both.

Dialogue is ongoing with both organizations, and we are looking for a new and

innovative model around how we engage business and labour.

We are open to bilateral relationships, obviously, with the two sectors.

Government will continue to engage with business, government will

continue to engage with labour, but we all agree there are times when there are

issues of mutual concern where we really need that collaboration between the

three sectors. So that is what we

are working on right now.

MR. MURPHY:

Is there any reason that business gave you for backing out?

MR. KENT:

The Business Collation provided a letter that indicated a number of reasons for

withdrawing from the partnership. I

do not want to speak for them, but I will say they had concerns about what was

being accomplished through the partnership.

It had been around since 2002.

I believe it has served us well.

I believe it impacted government policy positively in a number of areas,

but it is time for a new model.

Over the past year, we had already recognized that it was time for a new model.

We were going through a pretty comprehensive review process that the

Business Collation was actively engaged in with the Federation of Labour, and we

identified a number of possibilities.

Right now we are working through those possibilities.

Discussions are ongoing with both the Business Collation and the Federation of

Labour. I am confident some new

models will emerge that will keep both sectors very much engaged with us in some

kind of partnership that will certainly look different than the original one but

that was expected, given the review that was ongoing.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. So no anticipated timelines

on when the Strategic Partnership is going to be starting up again?

Right now, things are stalled.

MR. KENT:

It was anticipated that the Strategic Partnership would take on a new form.

That is why the evaluation was going.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. KENT:

Dialogue between the sectors and government has not stopped at all.

In fact, like I said, I have had meetings with both organizations.

Our staff have had ongoing discussions with both organizations, and there

are some proposals from both organizations that we are presently reviewing.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

I have nothing else.

CHAIR:

Thank you, George.

Christopher.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I just have a few questions.

Is it the Office of Public Engagement's responsibility to update the Strategic

Partnership Newfoundland and Labrador Web site?

MR. KENT:

Which Web site, sorry?

MR. MITCHELMORE:

The Strategic Partnership NL.

MR. KENT:

Will it be updated? Yes, because,

again, it is going to take on a new form.

We are committed to business labour engagement.

We have not figured out exactly what that is going to look like yet.

We are working in collaboration with both sectors to figure that out.

Once that is concluded, certainly we will be updating the appropriate

sites.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Yes, I am fine with that. It is

just that the current Web site still lists upcoming events, 2013.

That type of information needs to come down immediately.

MR. KENT:

I do not disagree.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I wanted to ask, how much is being budgeted for the Open Government Initiative,

because I do not see it here in the Estimates?

Is that under the salaries of Policy, Planning and Research or

Professional Services? Can you give

me a figure as to what it is costing to implement this service?

We know the launch was a $4,000-plus cost associated, but I do not have

any other figures.

MR. KENT:

The work that is envisioned as we build the action plan, which is our focus for

the bulk of this fiscal year, does not really have considerable budget

implications. All of that work is

going to be driven by Office of Public Engagement staff.

Our regional planners are going to play an active role.

Some of the budget we were talking about a little earlier related to

their travel, and activity will certainly be focused on Open Government

Initiative.

There is not a particular budget line related to the Open Government Initiative.

There are not new dollars that were specifically required to be added to

the budget to support that work, but what comes out of the action plan will have

budget implications in 2015, because there will likely be

new initiatives that will require a budget.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Can you give us a name or position of who is in charge of the Open Government

Initiative?

MR. KENT:

Well, ultimately, I am responsible for it.

We have a new deputy minister who has just joined our office and it will

be her top priority over the course of this fiscal year, but our senior people

who are here are the people who are driving the work.

In terms of the public engagement work, Bruce Gilbert, our assistant deputy

minister is heavily involved. In

terms of the planning and the research and evaluation and policy work, Elizabeth

Day and Ken Carter are heavily involved.

So everybody in the office is involved, but certainly our senior

leadership is very much focused on it as a number one priority.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Under 2.8.05, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy, you had talked

about it in response to Mr. Murphy's questions, but I guess if we could get in

more detail how much the Review Committee is being paid.

Is it a lump sum for individual members?

MR. KENT:

The contracts of the members of the Committee will be available online, if they

are not already.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Okay.

MR. KENT:

They are not there yet, but they will be made available so I have no problem

making that information available to you.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Where will they be made available?

When we talk about online, it is just very broad.

MR. KENT:

My understanding is that the Review Committee intends to establish a site for

the review. We do not direct that

work. We are happy to provide

whatever advice, but we cannot interfere with their conduct of business.

My understanding is that they intend to make those contracts available.

Committee members are paid, I believe in one case it is based on an

hourly rate. That information will

be made available in full detail.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

We have seen when we have filed requests as the Official Opposition for access

to information exorbitant price quotes: $1,600 for the tourism marketing dollars

across departments. Why are we

being charged such excessive and exorbitant fees?

MR. KENT:

As we have discussed in Question Period which is not always the best forum to

get into detail when you have forty-five seconds to answer a question it is

very rare for fees to be charged for ATIPP requests.

In the 2012-2013 fiscal year, there 285 general access requests; there

were only twenty-three that involved fee estimates, which is less than 10 per

cent. Of the twenty-three fee

estimates, ten were paid. So, ten

out of 285, it is a fairly insignificant number.

Some requests are very broad and some requests are very complicated, and

if there are hours or days or weeks of work required to compile information,

then there is a cost associated with doing so, as you know.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

I just have one other question. If

you will table the minutes of the Labour Market Committee and the Innovation

Committee of the Strategic Partnership NL up to the date of when they were still

active as listed, as part of the Web site, or if I could get copies of those.

MR. KENT:

Minutes of the Strategic Partnership committees, I will

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Yes, the Labour Market and the Innovation Committee.

MR. KENT:

I will certainly look into that for you.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Beyond that I thank you, Minister, for your time in answering the questions

under the Office of Public Engagement.

Certainly there will be lots more questions as we go on, but I do not

want to take that time of Estimates to go through that.

There are many other areas to dig in under Municipal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Chris, and this is a new process for me, as you can appreciate, so I

do not know if I am giving too much information or not enough, but I will

endeavor to answer all the questions as best I can.

I have one clarification, Mr. Chair, which relates to the Rural Secretariat

annual reports that Mr. Mitchelmore had asked about.

They are online. They were

only posted online early in March but for that year you talk about, there are

reports available that are currently online.

I am glad I did not misspeak. I

thought they were available. They

are, in fact, available, but we can certainly endeavor to provide actual copies

to you if you wish.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister, and I want to thank your staff for your open and frank

discussion this morning. As we move

forward, Minister, we have some housekeeping.

I would suggest that after we call the clauses, we will take a

four-minute recess for people to stretch their legs and do some things, and then

we will come back and we will begin with Municipal and Intergovernmental

Affairs.

MR. KENT:

I appreciate that, Mr. Chair, because I was beginning to think I was the only

one other than yourself who does not get a bathroom break, but it appears that

we do accommodate that so I appreciate that.

CHAIR:

I think we will do that in the interest of all of us this morning.

I ask the Clerk to call the subheads, thank you.

CLERK:

Executive Council 2.8.01 to 2.8.05 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.8.01 through 2.8.05 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 2.8.01 through 2.8.05 carried.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Office of Public Engagement, total heads, carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report the Estimates of the Office of Public Engagement carried without

amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Office of Public Engagement carried without

amendment.

CHAIR:

We will recess for five minutes to give us all a little break as Mr. Joyce

rejoins us, but we will reconvene at 10: 22 a.m.

Thank you.

Recess

CHAIR:

Good morning, everyone.

We will reconvene and I will ask the Clerk to call the first subhead, please.

CLERK:

Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I understand people needed a break.

We were all sitting here this morning, all morning, and sometimes we need a

break.

MR. KENT:

Was the break long enough for you?

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Chair, I say to the minister, it is always a break when I am listening to

you. It is always good to listen to

you, I have to say.

MR. KENT:

I know you hang on my every word.

At least during Question Period, I hang on your every word as well.

MR. JOYCE:

Yes.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. JOYCE:

Is this the way it is going to be, interruption on a regular basis just

curious?

CHAIR:

No, it is yours.

MR. JOYCE:

I will go through the line items after, but I will just try to save a bit of

time and go through some questions that I have so you can show me in the line

items where it is.

The Humber Valley land advisory committee: Can you show me how much money and

where in the budget the money was spent last year?

How much money was spent last year?

MR. KENT:

In previous years, there were funds advanced to the Town of Pasadena, which was

the sponsoring municipality. I am

looking within our Urban and Rural Planning budget at the moment, and I do not

know if there were any funds specifically for last year there were none.

MR. JOYCE:

Apparently this committee was up and active.

There had to be funds committed to it.

You had to pay the town; you had phone bills, light bills.

In the House of Assembly, Minister, you mentioned that it was always

active and up and running. I am

sure there has to be funds for it, because I know in 2011 there was $39,000 paid

out to Don Downer. There were phone

bills and there was rent. So you

are telling me here today that last year there was no money in the budget for

this committee, which you told me in the House of Assembly is active?

MR. KENT:

The committee was active and the funds that were previously advanced covered the

related expenses for the previous fiscal year.

MR. JOYCE:

Pardon me?

MR. KENT:

The funds that were advanced previously

MR. JOYCE:

In 2011?

MR. KENT:

and I guess 2012 I would have to check that covered the expenses that were

incurred over the past year.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay. It has to be in the budget

somewhere. Like if you carry funds

forward

MR. KENT:

No, the funds had already been advanced, so the expense had been incurred.

In that fiscal year the funds were provided to the Town of Pasadena.

Once they are provided to the town, they would not show up in future

budgets.

MR. JOYCE:

Can you show me where you provided funds in 2012?

MR. KENT:

I can provide you with a full breakdown, as I believe I have already done in the

House, on everything that has been spent on that process.

MR. JOYCE:

The breakdown you gave me, Minister, stopped in 2011, in 2012-2013, and I guess

in this year and I think it was in June or July of 2011 that the last funds

were dispersed to the committee. Of

course, when I was speaking to you and the people out in Corner Brook, I am sure

there has to be money if this committee is active, there has to be money in

the budget. You just do not give

money in 2011 and say its 2012, 2013, 2014 without having it accounted in the

budget. Surely, you have to have it

accounted in the budget.

MR. KENT:

No. There have been no new budget

items since 2011 as far as I know.

We were doing the review of the submission of the authority and during that time

the office continued to operate.

The focus of that office was on waste management, so expenses since that time

were mostly associated with the roll out of a solid waste management strategy.

There has not been new expenses budgeted for that committee.

During most of that time that has passed the committee was waiting on

government to review its submission, which, as you are well aware, we have done.

MR. JOYCE:

Can you tell me who was on the committee last year?

Can you give me a breakdown on the committee members?

MR. KENT:

I certainly can. I do not have that

information with me but I can certainly provide it to you, yes.

MR. JOYCE:

I am sure someone would have it there, the committee members, from last year?

MR. KENT:

We will provide you with a list.

MR. JOYCE:

You do not have a list? Okay.

There were no expenditures paid in 2011.

Can you explain to me and again, I will just save time instead of going

through the budget on it how you have rolled out the waste management for the

land use advisory committee, which is two completely separate groups, two

completely separate entities, the land use advisory committee are

representatives from towns just to consider land use in the Humber Valley

region, the waste management and they are all different members by the way,

very different members. How can you say

that you rolled it out and you are using the waste management for the land use

advisory committee?

MR. KENT:

The office serves dual purposes.

Given that at different points in time there is a different level of activity

happening with each initiative, to save taxpayers' money, the office served both

purposes, so it was a common administration.

MR. JOYCE:

From your comments then, the people who were on the waste management committee,

were they on the land use advisory committee?

MR. KENT:

No, they are separate committees but a common office that was supporting their

work completely separate committees.

MR. JOYCE:

Just to let you know, there has not been a committee established since 2011

the land use advisory committee, there has not been a meeting

MR. KENT:

The committee has been waiting for us to review their submission.

A response was provided to the committee in February, as you know.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

This committee now is up and running, can you show me where in the budget, which

budget item has the money put aside for the work for the committee this year,

like Don Downer's salary expenses?

MR. KENT:

The committee is still drawing out of the funds that were advanced previously.

They have not spent all of those funds, so there has not been a request

for additional funding at this point in time.

We hope that the work is just about complete.

The committee is going to respond to our response and make adjustments to

the draft plan. I hope that in the

months ahead we will be able to move the process forward.

I hope there will not be a whole lot more activity required to bring that

to conclusion.

MR. JOYCE:

I just have to get this straight because a lot of council members, a lot of

people are asking me to bring this up.

Are you telling me, Minister, that in 2011 they advanced money that this

Land Use Advisory Committee which there are no members of, no council members

know who is on the committee, even Don Downer himself said we have to go now and

reappoint. Are you telling me that

in 2011 you gave them funds?

In 2011 the phones were cut, the rent was stopped being paid.

This lady who worked with Don Downer was laid off or stopped being paid,

the cellphone was stopped being paid, the Web site was stopped being used, and

you are telling me they had funds sitting there and now they are drawing down on

those funds?

MR. KENT:

I am telling you the funds that were provided back then have not all been spent.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay. Can you tell us how much is

there that has not been spent?

MR. KENT:

I do not know that exact number but I can get it for you.

MR. JOYCE:

I am sure someone this is getting a bit more serious here.

Where in the budget are the funds?

MR. KENT:

There are no additional funds in the budget at this point.

There has not been any request for additional funds.

There are still funds unspent that that group is using to complete the

process.

MR. JOYCE:

I can write the Town of Pasadena and ask the Town of Pasadena, how much funds do

you have in this account, if they are doing the administration?

MR. KENT:

You can write whoever you want, sure.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay, so they do have funds. I just

want to get this. The Town of

Pasadena

MR. KENT:

The committee has not requested additional funds.

Our understanding from the committee is that it still has funds unspent

from the previous allotment.

MR. JOYCE:

I just have to get it clear because I hate misunderstandings.

The Town of Pasadena has funds that they have not used for three years

for the Humber Valley Land Use Advisory Committee.

Is that correct?

MR. KENT:

That is correct.

MR. JOYCE:

That is correct, okay. I will write

them and ask them about funds and that.

I will just ask whoever: How can you put funds in the department, leave it there

for three years, and not have it in the budget anywhere?

MR. KENT:

It was an expenditure that was incurred in that fiscal year.

MR. JOYCE:

Obviously it is not an expenditure because it is not spent.

MR. KENT:

A cheque was cut. That constitutes

an expense. Funds were spent.

MR. JOYCE:

But if it is not used, don't you get the money back?

Should government not get the money back?

MR. KENT:

If the funds are unspent at the end of the day, then I would anticipate that the

funds would be returned to government.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

Can you tell me in the budget where Don Downer's salary is from the Land Use

Advisory Committee, please?

MR. KENT:

It was previously advanced. There

are no new dollars allocated in this budget that we are reviewing in Estimates

today.

MR. JOYCE:

I hope I have this correct, that Pasadena has funds now to pay for the Land Use

Advisory Committee that they had in their bank account for three years that they

have not used.

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Okay.

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you and good morning once again.

I just have a couple of general questions.

We can get into that or else I can get into some line items.

It is your choice here, Minister.

CHAIR:

Wherever you want to go, George.

MR. KENT:

Whatever you like.

MR. MURPHY:

I appreciate that.

We will go to a couple of questions.

I just wanted to get an update on municipal training, Grants and

Subsidies. Can we have an update on

what training has been done in the last year?

If I was to look at the Budget book, it would be line 2.1.01.

CHAIR:

Line 2.1.01, George?

MR. MURPHY:

Line 2.1.01, Regional Support.

I could probably tackle a couple of questions at the same time at the various

sections.

MR. KENT:

We provide funding annually to the Municipal Training and Development

Corporation in partnership with the professional municipal administrators, which

is the group that administers those dollars, primarily.

There is an actual corporation, and also in partnership with

Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador.

That corporation was incorporated in 2001.

It is led by a board of directors that has representatives from MNL and

PMA, also the Combined Councils of Labrador, and our department as well.

There is an annual allocation. Some

of the things that have been funded recently included the new Municipal

Councillor's Handbook, which was launched at the recent PMA conference and MNL

symposium; a training series entitled, managing your municipality; training

sessions on municipal topics such as cash handling, meeting procedures,

elections, client services, and the development of programs in partnership with

career colleges and Memorial University.

In terms of some of the expenditures, that would include some of them.

Again, this is done in partnership with MNL, PMA, and the Combined

Councils.

MR. MURPHY:

Would you find the grant to the Combined Councils of Labrador in here, the

$100,000? Is this the

section where

I would find that?

MR. KENT:

The annual funding for the council?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, I believe government throws

MR. KENT:

That is not under my department.

No, it is through Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. MURPHY:

That would be through Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs that it is done, okay.

We can get into some of the line items here.

In 2.1.01.01, Salaries $1.572 million against $1.394 million that was

actually spent in 2013-2014, but you had budgeted $1.512 million.

Could we get a breakdown on that?

MR. KENT:

The difference between budget and revised is an increase of $118,300.

That reflects payouts for the recently negotiated signing bonus for

employees that totals $31,400; a contractual position to help support the fiscal

framework review; two short-term temporary staff to fill in for sick leave and a

short-term requirement, and a very minor amount of overtime costs as well.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. Was that a private company

that ended up with the contract for the municipal review?

MR. KENT:

No, it is a contractual position within the department.

Somebody was employed on a temporary basis.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

The Transportation and Communications line here, it is only $108,000 that was

spent last year against $124,900 that was budgeted.

MR. KENT:

The decrease just represents lower than anticipated travel and communications

costs. There is no particular

reason for that $16,900 decrease.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Grants and Subsidies, that is for training there I guess in this line here, in

line 10, overall grants and subsidies.

There is a difference here of $20,000.

MR. KENT:

That is correct.

MR. MURPHY:

The extra cost, what was that spent on last year?

MR. KENT:

The increase between budget and revised reflects higher than anticipated grant

requests for feasibility studies by communities that were interested in

exploring regional co-operation and potential amalgamations.

While the budget remains the same, we are going to continue to support

communities that are pursuing potential amalgamations or some form of

regionalization. If there are

additional dollars required beyond the $119,500 that exists within that budget

envelope,

then we will find it through savings or we will find it in other line items to

support that work.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

In line 02, in Revenue Provincial, a $9,000 dip in that particular number, I

am just wondering why.

MR. KENT:

It reflects lower than anticipated revenue from the Nunatsiavut Government for

municipal engineering and project management services that are performed by our

staff.

MR. MURPHY:

All right, great.

Subhead 2.1.02, Municipal Finance, in Professional Services there are $15,000

anticipated this year. I would take

it that your Salaries line, 01, is the 2 per cent?

MR. KENT:

The increase in Salaries reflects the salary step increases plus the 2 per cent

increase, yes.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, all right.

MR. KENT:

To your second question, the $15,000 reflects a re-profiling of funds that were

in Policy and Strategic Planning for ongoing work related to our new information

management system, and now it has been moved over to allow for Professional

Services in this area.

MR. MURPHY:

I had a question on the municipal ticketing pilot program that was started too

I am not quite sure if this is the

section that it would fall under; I figured I

would ask it now. Is the pilot

project still running?

MR. KENT:

It is. There is a need to further

advance this initiative. On a long

list of priorities I have encouraged our staff to make this one a priority.

I have met with some municipalities recently, including the Town of Grand

Falls-Windsor where the issue came up, and the town said: We have been waiting

for quite a while. What is the next

step? I have committed to advancing

the work, and there will be more progress on the municipal ticketing project in

the months ahead. I am certainly

happy to provide more detail, if you wish.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, I am just wondering if there are any other towns that might have taken it

upon themselves to get into the program.

MR. KENT:

There are no new towns. In 2012,

approval was granted for the expansion to the six largest towns, which would be

Conception Bay South, Paradise, Gander, Grand Falls-Windsor, Happy Valley-Goose

Bay, and Labrador City. We still

need to make some legislative amendments before towns have the full authority

that they need, and there is some work we have to do at the provincial court.

So, as the minister, who I guess is not that new any more, I have asked

that that work be advanced. There

will be progress in 2014.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, so we are probably going to see some legislation brought into the House to

that end?

MR. KENT:

It will not be in spring session.

It could be in fall, but it will not be this spring, given the legislative

agenda.

MR. MURPHY:

All right, so it looks like the pilot program is probably going to be made

permanent, then, according to that?

MR. KENT:

I would like to see it made permanent.

I would like to see these large towns continue to have this authority.

We need to make some adjustments with the court process.

We need some support through the provincial court.

We also need to make legislative amendments ourselves.

I would love to see that done this fall, but there is still some work

required to get us to that point.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

When it comes to Municipal Finance, I have a question around the taxation of

unincorporated communities. What is

the department doing towards some sort of a fair taxation system that would be

part of your municipal review, financing

MR. KENT:

That is exactly right; it is definitely a component of the fiscal framework

review. We are encouraging

residents of unincorporated areas to participate and to have their say, but I

believe that the model that we have in place for local government in this

Province is not a sustainable one.

We have to make some changes.

It is not just about taxation; it is about how services are paid for and

delivered and shared within regions and on the bigger scale.

That is definitely a focus of the fiscal framework review.

MR. MURPHY:

Agreed.

Subhead 2.2.01, Policy and Strategic Planning, there are a couple of line items

here. Line 01 again, Salaries,

$121,400 in the difference. Has

there been an end to the recruitment delay here because last year I noticed

there were a couple of challenges as regards recruitment?

MR. KENT:

I will speak to this particular line item, but to your recruitment question

first, we are still have some challenges in terms of recruitment of

professionals with certain disciplines or expertise.

Recruiting engineers, recruiting planners, recruiting accountants in this

labour market has proven to be a challenge for our government certainly my

department, but I would suspect in multiple departments.

That is an issue that we continue to struggle with.

In terms of the increase here that you see, which is just over $60,000,

it reflects one additional position transferred in from the Human Resource

Secretariat and then it is the required salary step increases and the 2 per cent

increase.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under Transportation and Communications, if I could get a breakdown of what is

happening here in this line item; $8,000 was the revised number, again

MR. KENT:

The decrease simply relates to lower than anticipated travel costs and I think

the increase is $100. It relates to

the travel meal rate increase that was negotiated.

CHAIR:

George, I am going to ask you to hold your thought and I am going to

MR. JOYCE:

Do you want to finish, George?

MR. MURPHY:

(Inaudible) finish of 2.2.01.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. MURPHY:

I only have one or two questions on that.

Under Professional Services there is only $5,000 budget this year against

$30,000 revised for last year. Can

I get a breakdown of what was actually spent here?

MR. KENT:

That relates to your previous question.

The decrease reflects the re-profiling to Municipal Finance Professional

Services. That is what is going on

there. This is really a

right-sizing of the budget for policy and planning.

The division just has not been using the full $20,000.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. The same thing, I guess, can

be said for Purchased Services, the line just down below it.

I had a question on that as well.

MR. KENT:

Purchased Services, in terms of the decrease from budget to revised, it was just

lower than anticipated rental, printing, and meeting room costs.

There is a minor decrease of $1,000 between last year's budget and this

year's. It is just related to

reductions in printing services.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

That is all the questions I had on the section.

CHAIR:

Eddie.

MR. JOYCE:

I am just going to ask some more questions to try to save a bit of time.

I will go back on the land use and ask one or two more questions.

Can you tell me and I am sure with the open accountability and with the

accounting in the department how much is left in that budget in Pasadena, the

Pasadena council? I am sure you get

an update on how much is left.

MR. KENT:

It is approximately $60,000. I do

not know the precise figure for you, but it is about $60,000.

MR. JOYCE:

There is $60,000, and that is there for three years?

MR. KENT:

Yes.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

MR. KENT:

To be quite candid, the review has taken longer than any of us would have hoped,

but it was complex. There were

multiple government departments that had to be consulted.

There was a back and forth between departments on complex issues around

land use, like forestry and agriculture and other nature resources issues,

environmental issues. So, all of

those things have to be considered.

I am just glad the process is back on track and moving forward.

MR. JOYCE:

I am just going on with what the people who I spoke with out there said.

I do not think there was any problem with the procedure, but the time it

took. As I mentioned earlier, there

were no updates given to councils and all of that.

It was not the point that it was in government and yes, we are going to

review it, yes, it is coming out; but there was never any updates, and that is

why people were so frustrated and all of a sudden its three years later.

MR. KENT:

I think that is a valid criticism.

All I can speak to is the work that I have done over the past seven months to

advance the two regional planning processes that were not progressing real well,

to be frank. One was the Humber

Valley process, the other is the Northeast Avalon regional process.

I can honestly say in this House and look in the mirror and say that I

have done everything I can to get those processes back on track and moving

forward.

MR. JOYCE:

I agree with you; it is moving forward because I asked the questions in the

House a while back and they said that they are working on it and it was put out;

but the problem with the people in Corner Brook is that people are wondering if

the information is outdated now because a lot of the information was put in

there three-and-a-half or four years ago.

So it is not a criticism; it is just that it is a frustration that no one

was ever kept up to speed that it is working through the system and it is going

to be coming out eventually.

MR. KENT:

Because this work looks so far into the future, I would not suggest that

anything is really outdated. I

mean, we will certainly be thorough in our review of the final plan to ensure

that it is as current as it needs to be, but this is a plan that looks decades

into the future in terms of land use in the region.

I think we are okay.

I really appreciate the patience of communities on the West Coast as we have

gone through the process, and I am happy that we are now making some progress.

MR. JOYCE:

I was not being critical on that. I

was just expressing their frustrations.

MR. KENT:

Oh really? Oh, okay.

MR. JOYCE:

I am very easy to get along with actually.

MR. KENT:

I would never question that.

MR. JOYCE:

No, but that is the point of it.

When you get the frustrations from the town councils that spend so much time and

energy into it and they are not regularly updated, even a yearly update to the

town councils would have sufficed.

MR. KENT:

I appreciate the frustration of towns and that is why I made it such a high

priority to get it moving again.

MR. JOYCE:

I will check with Pasadena to see what they are going to do with the $60,000.

I am amazed that it is kept in Pasadena's town council for three years.

It is amazing.

Minister, you mentioned amalgamation and I had it on my note here did you

have the meeting arranged yet for York Harbour-Lark Harbour for their?

MR. KENT:

I do not know that it is confirmed, but I am hoping to meet with those

communities later this week.

MR. JOYCE:

Friday I think they are going to be in Corner Brook.

MR. KENT:

Yes, I am going to be in Corner Brook on Friday and I am hoping to have a

discussion with those towns at that point in time.

I want to help them move the process forward.

We are not in the business of pushing communities to come together.

We want to encourage regionalization and there are a lot of cases in this

Province where an amalgamation might make sense, but we only support it and

pursue it if the communities first tell us that they wish to, and that is the

case here.

MR. JOYCE:

They have all the work done.

MR. KENT:

Yes, it is a good sense and I know you are supportive of that process and I want

to thank you for that because it is

MR. JOYCE:

If there is anything I can do, if you want me to sit in on the meeting to help

with the process because I did follow through at every meeting and I met with

the town council a month ago and went through the list, what they should be

looking for, so I would have no problem helping

MR. KENT:

Well, I am certainly enjoying our time together this morning, so we will see.

MR. JOYCE:

Most people do, Mr. Minister.

Hopefully that will be arranged the week.

The next thing I was going to ask is the vehicles, $4.5 million for fire

vehicles.

MR. KENT:

Which line?

MR. JOYCE:

Well, I did not go through the lines.

You mentioned in your opening

MR. KENT:

Oh, the big budget, the $4.5 million for fire trucks.

MR. JOYCE:

Yes.

MR. KENT:

What is your question?

MR. JOYCE:

How are they being given out? Is

there a priority list?

MR. KENT:

We are trying to take a more strategic approach.

Every community would love to have a new fire truck and we have about 270

fire departments, all of which have equipment and truck and training needs.

Through Fire and Emergency Services, we are working to address those

needs as best we can. This amount

of $4.5 million for vehicles is the biggest ever and I think it is going to

allow us to meet a lot of needs.

We certainly are encouraging communities to work on a regional basis, so

priority will certainly be given to regional initiatives.

Our Fire and Emergency Services staff are doing a thorough assessment of

the needs of the different fire departments, certainly taking a regional view.

When it comes to giving out equipment, for instance, we have to consider

the training of the different firefighters as well.

It is no point to provide equipment that people are not trained to use.

So training is an important component of the process as well.

I am going to be meeting with staff at some point this month to try to move that

process forward. I am eager to get

some approvals in that area as well; but my focus, honestly, has been on the

municipal infrastructure because of the time sensitivity, because of my desire

to try to take advantage of the construction season.

MR. JOYCE:

Now that you brought that up, when will the announcements be made for different

districts for capital works? I have

seen some in the paper, some press releases, but

MR. KENT:

Yes, there have been a few announcements, but there have been a lot of

approvals, and there are more to come.

I am making an effort to certainly thoroughly review all the

applications, and I think it is something like $280 million of requests no, it

is a bigger number than that: $360 million.

We have had hundreds of millions of dollars of requests, and we cannot

meet them all. We are trying to be

fair to every region of the Province.

Some communities have received approvals; some regions of the Province we

are still working. So, I hope to

get it all completed over the next couple of weeks for this year.

MR. JOYCE:

How much is going to be spent this year?

MR. KENT:

Sorry, I just want to make sure I give you an accurate number.

For the large seven, their allocation for the next three years has been

done. For the next largest fifteen,

their allocation for the three years has been done.

That totals $100 million, and then we have more funds remaining for the

rest of the municipalities. The

full $200 million is not going to be spent this year because that has to do us

for three years, but there will well over $100 million, certainly, spent or

allocated, I should say this year.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay. Thank you.

Just to let you know, York Harbour-Lark Harbour, with an amalgamation, they are

going to be looking for a fire truck because they already share the services

the fire truck and fire services now, and their truck is about thirty years old.

MR. KENT:

Well, I certainly look forward to my discussions with those communities, and I

am sure the issue will come up, but no decisions have been made.

MR. JOYCE:

No, but it is on their list, and with the amalgamation it is deserving.

MR. KENT:

Yes.

MR. JOYCE:

Another thing was brought up about Western Newfoundland, and you discussed it in

the House, 911 call centres; has any decision been made yet where the sites are

going to be established?

MR. KENT:

One will be the St. John's Regional Fire Department.

It is looking like the second site will be in Corner Brook.

MR. JOYCE:

The rumor in Corner Brook is that there will be one in St. John's.

I said no, they are definitely putting one in Corner Brook; that was the

commitment. The rumor is that it

may go to the fire department in Corner Brook which is not a bad decision, but

seeing there was no decision made in Western Newfoundland, a lot of firefighters

who go to some training here, there is one in St. John's, and they assume it is

all going to be in St. John's.

MR. KENT:

No, certainly not. We need to have

the redundancy. There has to be

more than one regardless, so if for some reason the call centre went down in St.

John's due to some disaster or whatever the case may be, there has to be a

second site; but we also want to have a couple of answering points carrying the

load. So the second point is likely

to be in Corner Brook and the negotiations are going well as far as I know.

MR. JOYCE:

With the fire department?

MR. KENT:

Yes.

MR. JOYCE:

Do not disclose it if you

MR. KENT:

I will ask Sean to provide a bit more detail, sorry.

CHAIR:

Sean.

MR. DUTTON:

The discussions are with the city and the fire department, and the fire

department is part of the city. I

think the arrangement, if one is agreed, would be with, as you say, the fire

department, but it is subject to the agreement of both of those parties.

We are not really in a position to make a definitive statement on that

until those discussions are concluded.

MR. JOYCE:

That is not a bad idea by the way because they have professional staff there,

trained staff. The fear was that

there was only one in St. John's.

So I can say there are negotiations for one in Western Newfoundland, hopefully

in Corner Brook somewhere soon.

CHAIR:

Eddie, do you have a follow-up to that?

If not your time

MR. JOYCE:

No, go ahead. I just wanted to get

that clarified.

CHAIR:

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you.

Minister, while we are on the topic of 911, if we can get into search and

rescue. I have to say that the

increase in funds for the Search and Rescue Association is certainly welcome and

overdue. I would like to see a

little more dollars put into that in the future, considering the geography of

the Province.

At the same time, my mind comes back to the Coalition of Persons with

Disabilities NL .

They had a project on the go for emergency planning for people with

disabilities. I would like to know

if you can comment on that to see how that project is going, if you can give us

an update on that.

MR. KENT:

They were involved in the conference that took place in Gander last week.

I believe I saw some media coverage related to that as well.

The conference that took place before the formal MNL symposium was

certainly quite a success.

The funding you are referring to is actually provided by Advanced Education and

Skills. I believe it is something

like $30,000. That project seems to

be progressing well. Fire and

Emergency Services will certainly support that work in whatever way we can, as

we have been doing. I understand

the discussions in Gander last week were quite positive.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. Coming back over to some line

items. That is all I had in that

particular

section for emergency services.

I think Eddie asked most of the questions.

Subhead 2.3.01, Engineering Services, line 01 Salaries.

There is a distinct difference here; $623,500 was the revised figure and

only budgeted for $519,700 this year.

I wonder if we can get a breakdown here.

MR. KENT:

Yes, you sure can.

The decrease, which is $96,800, reflects the elimination of one contractual

position. Because of some staff

turnover, there are some newer staff who are now at lower salary steps.

This was partially offset by the 2 per cent salary increase that was

recently negotiated.

It is important to note, that all positions for waste management were

established as contractual positions to carry out the implementation of the

strategy. We have a lot of work to

do, there is no doubt about it, but implementation is now 65 per cent completed.

It was felt that there was a position within that entity, within that

area that could oversee a couple of programs.

There is a manager of waste management position who reports to the

director of engineering and waste management.

There was one contractual position that was eliminated, and that is

really what you see going on here.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Where they were dealing with waste management, it has not affected the strategy

any?

MR. KENT:

No, not at all. There is a manager

of waste management position, there is a director of engineering and waste

management, and, of course, we are all familiar with the work that is being done

at a regional level. There is a lot

of work to do, and it is a top priority for us.

We still have a lot to get done over the next number of years before we

get to full implementation, but I am pleased with the progress we are making.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Coming down to Transportation and Communications, $9,100 more than what was

budgeted last year for this year.

MR. KENT:

We really wanted to right size the travel and professional services budgets.

We have traditionally spent more than what was budgeted, so we wanted to

address that. You will see in

related line items in other divisions that we have decreased it to reflect

reality. So that is what we have

done here. There is also the travel

meal rate increase that was recently negotiated through the collective

bargaining process.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under Professional Services here as well, something was not done in 2013-2014

and there is $50,000 in the budget for this year.

What are we anticipating here?

MR. KENT:

I am sorry, you are talking?

MR. MURPHY:

Under Professional Services.

MR. KENT:

Professional Services. The decrease

represents lower than anticipated consulting costs related to waste management

and engineering services, and there were some funds transferred to another area

of the budget as well.

I am going to allow Colleen to elaborate on that a little bit.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, please.

CHAIR:

Colleen.

MS JANES:

In terms of the $50,000 that is provided in the Estimates for the coming year,

there is no specific project identified there that will draw from our

Professional Services account but it is an allocation that we need to keep there

for things that may arise throughout the year.

Those will vary, and they tend to vary across all of our activities.

Sometimes there are obvious things that we are planning for the coming

year and sometimes it is an amount identified in the budget to allow for things

that may arise.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. Was that allocation the same

allocation, for example, in 2013?

There was no money spent there, so I am just wondering

MR. KENT:

No, it was allocated for waste management and engineering services consulting

but there was no consulting services required that required us to avail of those

funds.

MR. MURPHY:

The money was not spent, so it is still the same dollar amount was it or ?

MR. KENT:

It is a slightly lesser amount budgeted for this year, but there was some

funding that was transferred to that Transportation and Communications line

where we saw an increase. We took

some of the savings, the money we were not spending in one line and moved it to

an area where we were overspending our budget to try and make both lines more

realistic, I guess.

MR. MURPHY:

All right. Thank you very much.

Subhead 2.3.02, Industrial Water Services; first off, the provincial revenue, I

noticed last year when I asked a question in Estimates, the $714,300 was for

OCI, an amount they had outstanding for industrial water.

I noticed that the amount is down to $340,700.

I wonder if I can get a breakdown on what is happening here, and if that

is due to OCI paying on its water bill?

MR. KENT:

That revenue line actually reflects the users of it is the revenue related to

the users of all systems. The

decrease reflects a rightsizing of the anticipated revenues from the six

remaining operational industrial water systems.

So, it does not really relate to the OCI issue that you are raising.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. Last year it was.

I am just wondering, the six users then for industrial water, can we have a

breakdown on who those people would be?

MR. KENT:

You certainly can. I can provide

you with the detail. We will

provide that to you. OCI would be

one of the users, but this revenue line includes all of the users for all of the

systems is the point I was trying to make.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. Thank you.

That same section, 2.3.02, line 01 Salaries, $174,100 this year but last year

the department had $170,000 under the budget but only spent $118,700.

I wonder if I can get a breakdown here.

MR. KENT:

Yes. The decrease from budget to

revised reflects savings due to a vacant position and another position that was

vacant for part of the year due to a retirement.

These savings were partially offset by some retirement payouts, and

payouts of the signing bonus. That

is where we stand right now.

We are reviewing our industrial water system requirements to determine how

positions should be filled or whether a position should be deployed to other

areas with more pressing needs.

That is the process we are going through right now.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under Purchased Services, $570,000 was spent against the budgeted $490,000,

$80,000 more. I am just wondering

if I can get a breakdown here on what is happening and an explanation for this

year, for 2014-2015.

MR. KENT:

Yes. The increase last year

reflected expenditures associated with a couple of emergency repairs.

There were emergency repairs needed to the Trinity Bay North system and

also the Ramea system. This was in

addition to the routine maintenance that we would normally do.

These were not anticipated, but of course the repairs had to be done.

MR. MURPHY:

What were those repairs in general, were they bridge work, roadwork?

MR. KENT:

I cannot speak to the detail of it specifically.

I will ask Cluney to comment on specifically what the repairs were, but

the repairs were to the water systems themselves.

MR. MURPHY:

The water systems themselves.

MR. KENT:

Would you like some more detail?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, a little bit.

CHAIR:

Cluney.

MR. MERCER:

With the Trinity Bay North system there was a lightning strike out there and

there was a power surge so we had some electrical damage that had to be repaired

as well as a pump that was damaged in the same lightning strike.

In the case of Ramea, they had a pipe failure and a pump failure near the end of

the fiscal year, in March, that we had to deal with over a weekend.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, that is good.

Under 2.3.02, I had only one question about that but you already explained that

one, so we will move on to 2.3.03.

CHAIR:

George, I am going to hold you there, seeing you are going to a new area.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Eddie.

MR. JOYCE:

I am just going to go again instead of item by item Minister, in the House of

Assembly you mentioned Western Regional Waste Management and that there would be

a $1.8 million savings annually to the Western Regional Waste Management by

shipping the waste to Central.

MR. KENT:

That is correct.

MR. JOYCE:

Again, in the spirit of being nice and co-operative, I think you should read the

report actually, the BAE-Newplan report, page 77.

That is correct, but what you did not take into account was the cost of

transporting the waste. When you

take the cost of transporting the waste, it is equal.

Even your friend, Don Downer, last weekend stated that there are no savings if

we do not move the waste to Norris Arm or keep it in Central there are

absolutely no savings. That is in

the report and Don Downer said it publicly.

I can give you the copies of The

Western Star . That is what he

is waiting on if there is a decision.

That is just a point, because obviously there is a mixed message being

sent out there.

Minister, I will give you a chance to respond.

MR. KENT:

Thank you.

I have been consistent in my response and all I can tell you is that once that

financial analysis was done, it was determined that a West Coast site operating

its own landfill, recycling, compost facilities, all in, would cost the Western

Region $1.8 million more in operation and maintenance costs annually compared to

trucking to the Central Newfoundland site, with those costs factored in.

MR. JOYCE:

I want it done right, in how we do it.

I suggest you get the officials to go to page 77 of the BAE-Newplan

report and also contact Don Downer who publicly last week when you answered

that question in the House, and I was involved with this for years.

On page 77 of the report: Trucking costs for one facility is $405,000.

That is $1.8 million higher than two facilities.

This is part of the report.

It is a wash, so this is why a lot of people are saying there is no annual

savings to Western. A lot of people

were looking at the rates now. They

are even saying some municipalities are being tripled and some businesses in

Corner Brook are going up 300 per cent more by moving it out to Central, and

there are some concerns.

My question to you is: Would you go back and revisit this?

Because when the decision was made to drop the subsidy, it was done by an

appointed committee. I think there

was nine out of seventeen at the meeting where it was done, one or two were on

teleconference at the time there was no major input from all.

I do not think a lot of towns are so upset about moving it out to Central, but

when you hear that it is going to be a savings, when in actual fact they are

told it is not, and then the cost is going to go up by 200 per cent to 300 per

cent, and businesses up to 300 per cent, they are saying why are we doing this.

Can we look at an alternate way?

So, is there any way to revisit this?

Even if the decision is to move to Central, at least people would be more

informed. Because people do not

feel that they were given a proper hearing on this.

MR. KENT:

Given the amount of public discussion, this is an issue over the last seven

months that I have been looking closely at.

I am still open to hearing from communities in the region, and also of

course from the waste management board itself.

At this point I remain confident that there will be a savings, and I

believe the right decision was made.

It makes economic sense, it makes environmental sense, and in each region

of the Province we want to do what makes economic sense and what makes

environmental sense. If we were not

so confident, then we would absolutely revisit our plan.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

I will just read this from page 77, Minister, and I will give you a copy, if you

do not have one.

MR. KENT:

Oh, I am sure we have it.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

The cost of operating two regional facilities (Western and Central), assuming

that the Western location is Pasadena, is approximately $48,000 higher than

operating one facility in Central.

That is right in the report. This

is where the confusion has come in, Minister and I am not being critical, but

I just wanted to make sure that people are informed and we have the right

decision.

When you are the minister stating that it is $1.8 million, Don Downer is out

saying no, it is not and I will even give you the copy of

The Western Star ; I will get it from

my office for you saying it is a wash.

There will not be any savings.

There is going to be a loss of about twenty-eight, thirty jobs in Western

Newfoundland, so it is up to which government where they want to go.

There are no big savings, if they do not go.

This is where the confusion is.

I know, Minister, you had no part of the decision, but the decision that was

made was done without proper consultation with a lot of municipalities, I can

assure you of that. When the board

was appointed, it was all appointees and when they were appointed, they made the

decision without a lot of municipalities did not know that the board was going

to agree to go to Central without a subsidy included, because that was one of

the holdbacks. They said okay, we

are going to drop it now, we are going to drop the subsidy, and I think that was

done in June or July 2012. I am

sure someone could correct me on that.

That is when it was done.

I am asking you, because of all the confusion, would you somehow try to have

public consultations or go out and get people so it will not be like the waste

management, that at least people are informed and if it is the right decision,

it is the right decision but right now people are confused.

MR. KENT:

The one point that I think I would agree with you on is that we need to do a

better job of communicating around this issue.

There is a lot of confusion, there are a lot of misconceptions, and we

need to communicate better with the communities and the residents throughout the

Province, but particularly on the West Coast where there has probably been more

confusion than other regions.

I will certainly endeavour to do that.

I do understand that point.

As far as the decision goes, to go to move the waste from the West Coast to the

Central Newfoundland facility, based on my review so far I remain confident that

a good decision was made.

MR. JOYCE:

So you still remain confident that there will be a $1.8 million savings

annually?

MR. KENT:

Approximately, yes.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay.

I think someone should review the report and after George goes, I will go up and

get a copy of what Don Downer said and I will give it to you just so you can see

the confusion. This is not

critical; this is just making sure that it is done right.

Minister, another question, I am just going to change it.

What is the status of the Harbour Grace arena?

MR. KENT:

The project is moving along. I had

discussions with the mayor and a member of council just last week.

The mayor requested a meeting on Monday or Tuesday and we met before the

week was over. There was an

article

I believe in The Compass , the local

paper, over the past number of days outlining I am sorry not last week.

CHAIR:

Yes, Minister, last week.

MR. KENT:

The

article was last week? Yes,

that is right; it was last week. It

is all a blur.

Basically, we have been reviewing all of the financial data provided by the town

to ensure that the town can afford not only to build the facility, but also to

operate it.

At one point earlier this year, the town advised us that it wished to pursue a

one-rink facility versus a two-rink facility.

We have been looking at a couple of comparable facilities that have

recently been built in the Province to look at their operating costs and the

capital costs to see how it compares.

We have committed by the end of May to get back to the town and to arrange a

meeting with our officials to discuss next steps.

The town officials who I met with were quite satisfied with that.

There had not been some movement by either party for some time, but now we have

the information we need and we are completing the analysis.

I have asked that the analysis be made a high priority.

There are a lot of high priorities.

That work will be done in the next two to three weeks and then we hope to sit

down with the town shortly after that.

By early June we will be sitting down with the town to talk about next

steps. I am hopeful that the

analysis shows the town can afford the facility and we can move ahead.

There is no doubt that region needs a new arena no doubt in my mind.

The funds remain allocated.

They are still set aside. They have

not been repurposed or re-profiled and we are working through the process.

MR. JOYCE:

Is there any timeline set for when the decision has to be made?

MR. KENT:

No, other than the one that I have just described.

I want to draw this process to a conclusion because it has been going on

for a while. I want us, by the end

of the month, to have that analysis complete so we can talk to the town.

If the analysis says the Town of Harbour Grace can afford this facility and it

can afford to operate it long term, then we move ahead with the process.

If it says otherwise then obviously we are going to have to have some

serious discussions about how we proceed, but I hope that is not the case.

CHAIR:

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Section 2.3.03, Urban and Rural Planning, this year's budget shows $624,600 in

Salaries against last year's $575,400 that was budgeted, a difference of

$67,600. Are we dealing with a new

position here?

MR. KENT:

The increase for this year does reflect anticipated recruitment activity plus

the 2 per cent increase. There have

been some vacancies in this area. We

have some vacancies that we are working to fill right now.

As we have spent a good bit of time talking about this morning, there are some

regional planning efforts that we have been trying to advance.

There is a lot of work ongoing.

This is an area that I have been focused on as a fairly new minister to

try and streamline and improve our processes.

What I have found is that we have struggled to retain enough qualified

planners to get the work done. That

increase does reflect anticipated recruitment activity this year.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. If I can, while we are on the

topic of regional plans, an update on the Northeast Avalon Regional Plan.

What was the hold up here with the plan?

That plan was supposed to be put together some time ago now?

MR. KENT:

That probably requires a much longer discussion which I would happy to have with

you. There are a lot of theories on

why the process stalled, but fundamentally the communities did not reach

consensus on the direction to move forward.

There was a draft report done by a consultant, and multiple communities at the

table had major concerns about some of the conclusions that were articulated in

that draft report. The process

stalled and nothing happened, and then there was a municipal election.

When I became aware of that, coming into office, I consulted with communities in

the region and found out that there was definitely a desire to move the process

forward, but we could not just simply pick up where they left off.

There was a need to restart the process.

The other thing that I observed about what went on over the few years that this

process was ongoing was the level of commitment and involvement varied from

community to community. I felt in

order to make sure there was true buy in and full partic