British Columbia Hansard — 12 August 2020, p.m., Issue 356 (41st Parliament, 5th Session)

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday, August 12, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 356 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fifth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services...................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ..................................................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Economic Development and Competitiveness.............................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party .................................................................................................................................................................Adam Olsen Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker............................................................................................................................................................. Simon Gibson Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................ Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...........................................................................................................................

Artour Sogomonian Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................. Jennifer Arril Senior Research Analyst ...................................................................................................................................................................

Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ......................................................................... Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)................................................................ Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) .....................................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) .......................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...........................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP).......................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)........................................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...................................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) .................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ..................................Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Langley East Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (NDP)...........................................................Kootenay West Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ............................................................. New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................... Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ..............................................Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)................................................................ Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ................................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon.

Adrian (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...................................................................... Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP).............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP).........................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ........................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) ......................................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal).............................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ..................................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...................................................Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP).........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon.

John (NDP) ................................................ Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ........................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP).................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal).................................................Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)............................................................................... Delta North Kang, Hon.

Anne (NDP)......................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)..............................................................................Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................. Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ........................................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ..................................................... Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal).............................................

Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) .....................................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ........................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)....................................................................... Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)..................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ........................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon.

Michelle (NDP)......................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ............................................................ Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal).......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.) ........................................................... Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................. Langley Popham, Hon.

Lana (NDP)............................................................... Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ............................................................Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................. North Coast Robinson, Hon.

Selina (NDP) .........................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)................................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) ....................................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................. Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ................................................................Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ......................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)..................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Jinny (NDP) ........................................................................ Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) .........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...............................................

Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)..........................................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)........................................ West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)................................................ Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...........................................West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)......................................................

Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...............................North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) .......................................................Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ................................................................North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr.

Andrew (Ind.)................................................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) ................................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)............................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission............................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South....................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen...................................................................... Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds................................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin .............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ............................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Kent ...............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley .............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North.............................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin ..............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ..............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley .....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East.........................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim................................................................ Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo......................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ................................................................... Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster........................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast ...........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island.............................................................................. Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................................... Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour........................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head............................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum.......................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast....................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough.........................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre ......................................................................... Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine....................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................................ Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ......................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek........................................................................ Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ............................................................... Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ....................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill.................................................................. Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; Independent 2; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Wednesday, August 12, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members................................................................................................................................................... 12371 Tributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 12371 Jimmy Y au J.

Y ap Statements (Standing Order 25B) ....................................................................................................................................... 12372 Nanaimo Community Hospice Society S. Malcolmson Dave Kandal S. Gibson Mary Wesley and Indigenous health care J. Rice Farming legacy of August and Alice Bremner G. Kyllo Contributions of Sufi community during COVID-19 J. Routledge Food bank fundraising by Darius Sam J.

Tegart Oral Questions....................................................................................................................................................................... 12374 Government plan for education system reopening D. Davies Hon. R. Fleming J. Thornthwaite Site C power project S. Furstenau Hon. B. Ralston Handling of personal health information J. Johal Hon. A. Dix M. de Jong Government action on homelessness and community safety J. Isaacs Hon. S.

Robinson Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 12379 D. Davies R.

Singh Tabling Documents............................................................................................................................................................... 12379 Correspondence regarding privacy rights concerns relating to information technology support services to health authorities Orders of the Day Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 12379 Estimates: Ministry of Finance(continued) S. Thomson Hon. C. James S. Sullivan M. Morris L. Throness T.

Wat P . Milobar S. Bond S. Cadieux

WEDNESDAY , AUGUST 12, 2020 The House met at 1:36 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers and reflections: T. Stone. Introductions by Members Hon. J. Darcy:If you see me beaming from ear to ear, it’s because I have some very special guests to introduce today. I’ d like to introduce, first, my grandson Kalen, who is sitting up there in the gallery. First time he’s been in the Legislature, and he’s learning. One day he’ll understand what we do in this place and what grandma does in this place, but he’s pretty in awe of what he sees as a castle and thinks this is a pretty cool place.

With him is his big sister, Violet. Violet is beginning to understand what government does, that we set the rules for the province and we decide how to spend their parents’ money, among other things. She’s pretty excited to be here. They’re here with their mother, Kate, a wonderful, won- derful mother. Also in the gallery today is the love of my life, my hus- band, my partner for 44 years, Gary Caroline. I don’t think he’s been here since the swearing-in, and I’m really, really pleased that he’s able to be here today. And my senior ministerial assistant, Kelly Newhook, who just makes it all possible.

I’ d please ask the House to join me in welcoming my very, very special guests today. L. Throness:I’ d like to welcome a friend I met long ago in Ottawa to the House today. Royce Eberding is now a teacher at Prince Charles Elementary School in Abbots- ford, and he’s visiting what is today quite quiet streets in Victoria with his wife, Joanna, and his three lovely daugh- ters — Jenna, Emily and Abigail. Would the House please make them very welcome. A. Weaver:In the gallery today, we have someone who I suspect you might know, hon. Speaker. His name is Sean Plecas. He’s your son.

Sean is on a bit of break, having just graduated with a master of philosophy degree from the faculty of law at the University of Cambridge, where he was a resident of Wolfson College. He finished with first- class grades, but more importantly to us here, while he was there, he won a Cambridge sports scholarship for boxing — frankly, skills he might need should he ever get into politics. He’ll soon be headed off to law school at the Uni- versity of Sydney in Australia. Would the House please make your son, Sean Plecas, feel very welcome. S.

Malcolmson:I welcome the Legislature to give a spe- cial thanks to my constituency team member Darcy Olsen, who continues to navigate for my constituents in Nanaimo with a beautiful heart — navigation of social services and helping the most vulnerable people, in particular, advocate for themselves and be supported in that. [1:40 p.m.] While I’m at it, just a huge shout-out to all the constitu- ency assistants across British Columbia. Especially dur- ing the pandemic, they have worked extremely hard under very hard circumstances. We’re lucky to have them, and we are grateful to them. Thank you. G.

Kyllo:I’m very proud to rise in the House today and introduce my parents, Knut and Marianne Thomsen from Sicamous. I’m hoping the House would please make them feel very welcome. Hon. D. Eby: It’s a special day for the Eby family. My youngest brother is getting married today, actually, at two o’ clock, in the middle of question period, on a Zoom call. His wife-to-be will be there with him. My youngest broth- er, Matt, is marrying Kate. She’s lovely and a wonderful match. I’m very excited for both of them.

Will the House please join me in celebrating this couple getting married in New Y ork City, of all places, barring me in two different ways from attending their ceremony today. Congratulations to the lucky couple. Tributes JIMMY YAU J. Y ap:I regret to advise the House of the sad news of the passing of my constituent, longtime community leader and volunteer Mr. Jimmy Y au, who passed away on August 9 at the age of 92. Jimmy was instrumental in starting a seniors friendship networking and activity group in my community through the Steveston Community Centre.

In fact, back on March 1, 2017, in this chamber, I talked about his great contribu- tions to our community. Jimmy Y au was a tireless volun- teer, a friend to so many and a devoted family man. He will be dearly missed. I ask all members of this House to join me in sending condolences to his wife, Mrs. Venus Y au, and the entire Y au family. Rest in peace, Jimmy. 12371

Statements (Standing Order 25B) NANAIMO COMMUNITY HOSPICE SOCIETY S. Malcolmson:During the pandemic, we have all come even more closely in contact with the fragility of life, with the closeness of death, new ways of navigat- ing end-of-life and particular gratitude for those who hold our hands at the most difficult moments. I wanted today to particularly sing the praises of Nanaimo Hos- pice Society. We’re even more aware of the precious work they do in our community.

I want to read a letter describing their work. “ After losing my sister, Dana, suddenly last September, I wasn’t sure how I’ d cope with such immense pain and loss while support- ing my mom, niece, her partner and my two children, as well as a large community of friends she’ d collected through her life of vo- lunteering and pure kindness from her heart. “Nanaimo Hospice opened their arms to my children and me.

The staff and volunteers gave us a safe place to share our innermost sadness safely and walked me through the stages of grief, allowing me to have the confidence to share my ugliest moments of grief with unconditional support. “COVID prevents us today from the hugs, smiles and sensory sessions, but it hasn’t stopped the team from providing 100 percent care and love. I have biweekly calls with a caring and sharp-listen- ing counsellor.

That’s allowed me and my children to continue to heal. “I don’t even want to consider emotionally where I’ d be without Nanaimo Hospice and the resources they provide in my life. ” Everything is different now, including how we support great organizations like Nanaimo Hospice. This year instead of the Hike for Hospice, this has turned into an online format, Hustle for Hospice. This year Noah is walking for his grandfather Al, who died two weeks before the hike. Noah ran all the way around Westwood Lake. He won the prize for the fastest and youngest participant.

If you can, join Noah and the other members of our Nanaimo community in hustling for hospice and raising funds for this fantastic organization. DAVE KANDAL S. Gibson:A good friend died this past week at age 90. I wanted to take a few moments here in the House to hon- our him and his memory. Dave Kandal was a natural leader, and it was my priv- ilege to serve on council with him. He started first as a school trustee. He was a trained teacher and later joined the air force, flew military jets. He married Ruby just three months after their first meeting, and they moved from the Prairies to Abbotsford.

Ruby passed away four years ago. [1:45 p.m.] Dave taught for a few years, but the sky called. He had a 33-year career as a commercial pilot, even as the captain of the biggest aircraft, including 747s. His passion for flight almost killed him while in his 20s. He was flying a Lock- heed T33 fighter jet in formation over the Georgia Strait when his aircraft wing clipped the wings of another jet. He was forced to eject and survived the impact on the water without serious injuries. He was rescued by the crew of a passing fishing vessel.

He played a pivotal role in the amalgamation of Abbots- ford and Matsqui in the mid-’90s. He was also a leader in the initiative to have the city purchase the Abbotsford International Airport. Dave was a real statesman and ran excellent meetings as the mayor of Matsqui. He was always gracious and wel- coming to me as the youngster on council. Dave’s dad was a pastor, and his mom played the organ at their church. His faith gave him hope and an enduring peace. I’ll miss my friend Dave Kandal, truly one of Abbots- ford’s outstanding citizens. It’s no wonder both a school and a park are named in his honour.

MARY WESLEY AND INDIGENOUS HEALTH CARE J. Rice: If you’re from Prince Rupert, Lax Kw’alaams, Metlakatla or any number of Tsimshian or Haida com- munities, you likely know Mary Wesley. Quite frankly, Mary Wesley probably knows you. With a quiet disposition but a giant smile and pres- ence in our lives, we celebrate Mary. Mary Wesley has recently retired from more than 30 years of committed service to Northern Health and Aboriginal communities across the northwest. For 12 of those years, she served as the Aboriginal patient liaison at the Prince Rupert Regional Hospital.

She was the first Aboriginal patient liaison in the north and helped shaped the program that has now been established throughout the province. As an early innov- ator, she also served as a mentor to other APLs. For that, we are so grateful. Mary has helped to dismantle racism by developing cul- tural understanding. Through her work, she has facilitated meaningful communications between Indigenous patients and health care providers. She was also the co-chair of the Indigenous North Coast Health Improvement committee, which recently won an award from the B.C. Patient Safety and Quality Council.

Mary has helped numerous staff orientate to the local First Nations communities and has been an advocate for the needs of Indigenous people. Mary has been very involved in the All-Native Basket- ball Tournament, where she could be found in the Raven Room every year with her comrade Fanny Nelson. She was key to creating a safe and welcoming space to elders to rest and get a refreshment at the busy tournament. Her pres- ence in the Raven Room also facilitated wellness checks for 12372 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

many visiting First Nations who may have limited access to health care in their home communities. Mary’s dedication to cultural competency, dignity, respect and trust, while ensuring the delivery of high-qual- ity medical care, will be missed by not only those in the Northern Health Authority but by all of us whose lives have been touched by Mary. Mary could recently be seen riding off into the sunset of retirement on a Harley-Davidson. With much gratitude, we wish her all the best in her future endeavours. Thank you, Mary Wesley. FARMING LEGACY OF AUGUST AND ALICE BREMNER G.

Kyllo:Today I rise to pay tribute to a friend, August Bremer. Now, 64 years ago August immigrated to British Columbia with not much more than the clothes on his back. His girlfriend, Alice, soon joined him, and they were married in 1958, starting a legacy of farming throughout British Columbia. August and Alice began with a chicken farm on Van- couver Island. After almost a decade, they pulled up stakes and moved to the Mainland, where they tried their hand at dairy farming. Now, like most everything that August and Alice tackled, they were successful.

It wasn’t long before they moved to Enderby and, in 1964, started a family dairy farm that continues to operate to this day. Throughout his years as a dairy farmer, August was act- ive in the industry, working on behalf of dairy farmers like himself. He was a local director, a B.C. dairy producers director and chairman, and later represented B.C. dairy to the Dairy Farmers of Canada.

When August retired from the dairy industry, he became a B.C. feedlot producer and began to work with the B.C. feeders association, continu- ing his advocacy work for B.C. farmers. [1:50 p.m.] Today August and Alice have a legacy that spans mul- tiple cities and includes being founding members of two different churches, a farm that has operated for more than 46 years, five children, nine grandchildren and four great- grandchildren. August is an incredible individual and a pillar of the community in Enderby as well as the wider farming community in British Columbia.

August’s com- mitment and determination are shown in everything that he does. Earlier this year he was diagnosed with pancreatic can- cer. He is responding well to treatment, still farming his 60 acres and remaining active in the community. I’m so thankful to know August and to call him a friend. I’m so very appreciative for the work that he has done in our community. I’ d like to invite the whole House to join me in sending a very happy birthday wish to August when he turns 83 this coming Friday. Happy birthday, August. Thank you very much for being such a great role model to B.C. farming families.

CONTRIBUTIONS OF SUFI COMMUNITY DURING COVID-19 J. Routledge:I’ d like to introduce you to one of my good neighbours. The MTO Shahmaghsoudi School of Sufism is located in Burnaby Heights, near where I live. They have really stepped up during COVID to support our community. They have donated care packages, per- sonal protective equipment, meals and more to 20 long- term-care facilities, ten hospitals, women’s shelters, home- less shelters and low-income housing throughout Metro Vancouver.

Knowing that so many people are feeling acute anxiety and loneliness during the pandemic, MTO has been offer- ing free daily online meditation and relaxation sessions. I know people in my neighbourhood who have taken them. In addition, MTO Sufi Psychology Association is offering a free online course to help navigate the psychological chal- lenges related to the COVID crisis. On July 31, I was honoured to be part of their celebra- tion of Eid-ul-Adha, one of the holiest days of the Islam- ic calendar.

On this day, known as a time of pilgrimage, charity and community, MTO prepared and distributed more than 500 kits for children. Each contained school supplies, handmade masks, custom colouring books and other treats that would help a child cope through the bore- dom and loneliness that can be felt during COVID. MTO held a socially distanced press conference in front of the school to mark the importance of the day. Other neighbours came out of their houses to see what was going on, and when guests like myself were invited inside to tour the school, these neighbours were invited to join us.

Every community deserves good neighbours like the MTO Shahmaghsoudi School of Sufism. FOOD BANK FUNDRAISING BY DARIUS SAM J. Tegart:One of the things that has been most evident over the last few months is that even through a pandemic, there is no shortage of inspirational stories, courageous acts and people who are simply focused on helping others. One of these local heroes in my riding is Darius Sam, a 19-year-old from Merritt — a young man who, in his own words, has turned his life around through fitness, family support and community service.

When COVID hit and he saw the lineup outside the local food bank, Darius decided he wanted to do some- thing to help the food bank. He decided to do a fundraiser by running an ultramarathon. That’s 161 kilometres, to be exact, in under 24 hours. His reasoning was clear on his fundraising page, saying: “I believe we, as humans, are stronger together. By offering a helping hand, we will not Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12373

only make a difference. We will rise together through this adversity. ” The goal of his fundraiser was to raise $5,000 for the Nicola Valley and District Food Bank. Currently his total is over $100,000. That is a monumental achievement, which underlines how important his acts will be to so many.

This will provide much-needed support for people in the region and for all of those families that will benefit from his actions. [1:55 p.m.] I, for one, want to give my sincere congratulations to Darius for having the heart to challenge himself past his limits and for inspiring others to join him in contributing to those less fortunate. I hope the House will join me in sending a huge thank- you to Darius Sam of Merritt. Oral Questions GOVERNMENT PLAN FOR EDUCATION SYSTEM REOPENING D. Davies:Y esterday I hosted a town hall with hundreds of parents and teachers from across the province.

They all had one thing in common, and that was anxiety. As if the pandemic wasn’t stressful enough already, now they have to deal with a government that seems to be mak- ing things worse because they’re incapable of coming up with a feasible plan for back to school. The availability of a hybrid model, with teaching for students both online and in the classroom, was just one area of confusion that we heard yesterday from parents. To the Minister of Education, will online learning options be available to families, as they were in June? Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question.

As the member well knows, our guidelines that we released on July 29, which were an update of a plan that we released earlier in the spring, are comprehensive. They were developed by the B.C. Centre for Disease Control. They were developed under the guidance and direction of Dr. Bonnie Henry in the provincial health office. They were also done in consultation with every leading organiz- ation and with representation from all the professions that deliver education in British Columbia. We have had the goal to welcome kids back safely this September to in-class instruction for many months now.

There has been a lot of detailed planning going on in every part of the province. We have education teams on the ground in communities right around British Columbia working within the guidelines that were released by the BCCDC and the Ministry of Education. I would ask the member to talk to people like his superintendent in his own school district, to talk about the confidence, about how they will be working with their learning teams to welcome families and kids safely back into school, to orient staff on the guidelines, to redesign schools. It will not look as it did before this pandemic. It has to be safe.

It has to meet the very strin- gent test of the guidelines. Look, as we’ve explained, districts around the province are offering these same kinds of choices and options to parents and families that they always do. There are robust distributed learning programs around British Columbia. There are 56 of them that are delivered by the public edu- cation system. There are other choices that parents can access as well. District leaders and learning teams around British Col- umbia are working on exactly that. They’re working on how to accommodate families, because not every family situation is the same.

That’s the hard work that’s happening by the dedicated professionals around British Columbia right now. They’re beginning to communicate elements and information that are important to parents and kids and to their staff as we speak. Y ou’ve seen lots of information coming out in dif- ferent districts right now. They’re required to submit their plans to the ministry and have those approved. Those will be approved and posted later this month. Districts are working with families to make sure that everybody has access to a safe education come this September. Mr.

Speaker:The member for Peace River North on a supplemental. D. Davies: That was a lot of rambling, with zero response to my question, actually. This would have been a lot simpler for the ministry if they had actually released a real plan on the 29th of July, which didn’t happen. One of the callers last night — I can- not remember the gentleman’s name — was just beside himself that the government would release a plan that actually wasn’t a plan. Now we’re dealing with all the prob- lems that we have today.

On August 10, the minister said: “We want to have a common approach and proceed as an entire school system to have consistency. ” Y et today he announced that some schools will have hybrid learning, and some will not. There’s no consistency from one day to the next. There’s always a new something coming along. When is the minister going to show some leadership? When is the minister going to take responsibility and give parents clear answers? Parents need to plan. They need to arrange child care. They need to arrange after- school care.

Parents need to know if their children will have the option of a hybrid system. Finding all this out on August 26 is too late. [2:00 p.m.] I ask the question again. Will parents have the option of a hybrid learning system? 12374 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

Hon. R. Fleming:Well, let me try and say this as delic- ately as I can to the member. I would suggest that he read the BCCDC guidelines that were issued July 29, because there is a long discussion about exactly where hybrid learning systems are contemplated. He may wish to review the superintendent of Surrey today. They began to share some of their learning plans about delivering hybrid edu- cation at the senior secondary level. That is outlined by the document that was released by Dr. Bonnie Henry and myself that was based on input from school and education leaders around the province. So this is not new.

He should familiarize himself with the plan before he attacks it, quite frankly, because we have updated a plan that was successful in June to do what no other province did, which was to reopen schools around British Colum- bia. That’s been updated to allow for the return to in-class instruction. There are flexibilities within this plan that are designed from a public health perspective and a learning perspective. They’re at the core of that document and the plans that districts are working under right now. J.

Thornthwaite:Well, these types of answers that we’re getting from this minister are exactly the problem that these parents have with the non-plan. Confusion from this government is making things worse. Today it’s even worse, and it’s driving parents crazy with worry. Every day there’s a new announcement, which just adds to the confusion, stress and anxiety of parents, students, as well as teachers. Ashley Johnson from Port Coquitlam told us: “I’m a mom of two kids. My father has had cancer twice.

So by sending my kids back to school, I’m cutting off my fam- ily support, which I need, as I am a single parent trying to work. I’m really confused. I’m really conflicted. I’m up a lot of the night. ” To the minister again, how are children like Ashley’s, who have immunocompromised extended family mem- bers, supposed to safely participate in school? Hon. R. Fleming:Maybe let me deal with, off the top…. The member characterized a new announcement every day.

There has been one since July 29, and that was the one that was done in full consultation with the steering com- mittee that is guiding the safe return to B.C. schools. That was done by me today, and it was based on the logistics around implementing a safe return to school, and it was done with the consultation and advice with every major stakeholder in the B.C. education system. We said that these guidelines are out there for sugges- tion. We have a steering committee that is dynamic and working on a daily basis with these plans.

We have learn- ing teams around the province, including in that member’s district, working within those guidelines to communicate information on a timely basis to parents. Now specifically to the concerns of her constituent, I presume, around the request to have an accommodation of some kind. We understand that families do have different situations. Some of them have immunocompromised fam- ily members. I would urge, and Dr.

Bonnie Henry and I urged this on July 29, that families in that situation should be working with their local physician and working with principals and vice-principals to have an accommodation and a learning plan that works for that student and for that family. That’s something that is available in a non-pandemic time, but it’s critically important at this time, as we safely restart schools in September. That’s exactly what is avail- able now for families that are considering what their options are for September to be able to do. Mr. Speaker:The member for North Vancouver–Sey- mour on a supplemental. J.

Thornthwaite:Minister, hundreds of parents atten- ded the town hall last night with my colleague. They are worried. They are confused. They’re frustrated. They’ve got anxiety that, on top of the pandemic…. To make things even more stressful for Ashley, her daughter is in a cross- catchment school due to daycare, and she is worried that she will lose her placement if there isn’t virtual instruction available from that school. Ashley said: “I don’t know when I’m going back to work, and I don’t know why I would have to give up that spot until I feel it’s safe to do so at her daycare and school.

But that is potentially what I’m looking at. ” [2:05 p.m.] My question, again to the minister: when will this min- ister take responsibility, alleviate the stress and worry that these parents and children have, show some leadership and come up with a clear plan that everybody understands and that works for families like Ashley’s? Hon. R. Fleming: Mr. Speaker, we have a plan, and I know the opposition was able to be briefed and detailed about it by Dr. Bonnie Henry herself last week. I hope the information that was relayed on the venue that she described yesterday did exactly that and gave accurate information.

The member will know that school boards are vital part- ners of the education system. That’s where school services are delivered. Family connections are with their local school. There are a lot of parents who, yes, are looking for information about where their kid will be placed and what options they want to make for their family, and they are getting that information from school districts. Those plans are being developed now. We’ve given the types of timelines and flexibility for dis- tricts to be able to provide the services that their families need.

School districts are in the business of serving fam- ilies and kids. They want to keep families who have dif- ferent circumstances and different situations connected to Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12375

their school system and connected to their local school in whatever way they can and to provide those kinds of options that the member has described. That’s what’s happening on the ground in the B.C. school system. SITE C POWER PROJECT S. Furstenau:The Minister of Energy and Mines has repeatedly said that the B.C. Liberals pushed Site C past the point of no return and that his government had no choice but to keep building this dam. This is inaccur- ate. We all know that Site C was not past the point of no return when the NDP took office.

It was this government that decided, in spite of the evidence, to proceed with the project. In 2017, the B.C. Utilities Commission found that we could cancel Site C and replace the electricity with renew- ables, including wind and solar, at the same or lower cost to British Columbians. Now, three years later, Site C is facing even more massive cost overruns and delays than were predicted. My question is to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. The minister has said that he doesn’t know how high the costs are going to go, yet he’s still saying that Site C is past the point of no return.

How can this be when we don’t even know how deep the fiscal hole will be? Is there a price tag that will make the gov- ernment walk away? Hon. B. Ralston:I thank the House Leader of the Third Party for her question. The old government was indeed and in fact committed to pushing this project past the point of no return. They said so explicitly. They also refused to let the B.C. Utilities Commission review Site C before they recklessly signed off on it. We asked the BCUC to conduct a review of the project when we formed government, and we carefully considered their report.

As we said at the time, our government was forced to make a decision looking forward, not backwards. We’ve been clear that Site C is not a project we would have started, but we weren’t prepared to ask British Col- umbians to immediately take on $4 billion in debt with nothing in return. This would have affected badly needed investments in schools, hospitals and other important infrastructure. We have been left to manage the project in the best interests of British Columbians, and this is what we will continue to do. We knew there were cost pressures and risks on the Site C project when we formed government.

The COVID-19 pandemic has dramatically added to these challenges. In March, B.C. Hydro significantly scaled down the pro- ject and focused only on essential work and meeting crit- ical milestones. This was done in line with the advice of the provincial health officer to ensure the safety both of work- ers and of communities. This approach has ensured that we’re on track to achieve river diversion, a key step in con- structing the project, this fall. While this work is underway, B.C. Hydro will conduct their rebaselining analysis of the project, and Mr. Milburn will work with B.C.

Hydro and the project assurance board to review the measures the project has in place. He will provide an important role in examining the project and provide me and our government with independent advice and a fresh perspective. [2:10 p.m.] Mr. Speaker:House Leader, Third Party, on a supple- mental. S. Furstenau:Let’s step back and assess this situation. The minister will not provide a price tag, and the bad news from Site C continues to pile up — tension cracks, landslides, ongoing problems with the diversion tunnels. And the latest B.C. Hydro report tells us even more of the geotechnical problems.

There’s a stability problem under the foundations for the powerhouse, the spillways and the dam itself, and nobody knows what it will take or how much it will cost to fix. Today the CCPA reported that according to federal data, over 10,000 fracking- related earthquakes have happened in the Peace River region in a space of two years where Site C sits, further endangering this project. Government’s financial capacity will be strained for years to come due to COVID-19, yet this government wants to forge ahead and sink unlimited money into this project instead of helping British Columbians.

It’s time to act on the calls for responsible governance. It’s time to take responsibility for their actions. It’s time to cancel Site C. My question is to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Site C is this government’s respons- ibility and nobody else’s. With all of these challenges mounting, how can this government justify forging ahead? Hon. B. Ralston:I thank the member for her ques- tion. The issue of cost and

schedule is a topic that I am deeply concerned about, after the reports that were released weeks ago. That’s the reason why I have asked Peter Milburn, in his role as special adviser, to work with B.C. Hydro. I think it’s important when we look back at the Site C project…. When we first formed government in 2017, it was facing cost pressures and risks then. These have worsened, in large part due to the global COVID-19 pandemic, and as I’ve said, B.C. Hydro is undertaking a re-baselining analysis of the project. This includes reviewing the cost and time required to complete the main work for the project.

That work is not yet complete. That will help when we get it. It will help our government understand the true 12376 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

impact the pandemic has had on the budget. I expect to be able to provide an update on cost projections later this fall. The member also mentions, if I might, Mr. Speaker, the issues raised in a recent report released today. B.C. Hydro works closely with seismic hazard specialists and research- ers to review their ground motion data in the region. It’s important to remember that when we first formed gov- ernment, we knew British Columbians had concerns about hydraulic fracturing.

That’s why we asked an independent scientific panel to look at the role of hydraulic fracturing and how it relates to seismic events, impacts on water qual- ity and fugitive methane emissions. Last spring the panel provided the report to our govern- ment, and I’m pleased to say we’ve already implemented a number of their recommendations. For example, we’ve introduced new mapping zones that are likely to experi- ence greater ground motion from seismic events. We will continue to work hard on implementing these recom- mendations as well. HANDLING OF PERSONAL HEALTH INFORMATION J.

Johal:My questions are for the Minister of Citizens’ Services. Was the Provincial Health Services Authority aware that NTT Data would be using foreign employees, and did the PHSA authorize the use of foreign employees prior to this occurring? Hon. A. Dix:The member continues to make assertions not supported by the facts. He’s made them for a number of days now. He made an allegation of illegal activity, which was false, which is demonstrated to be false, yet he continues on.

I think he owes an apology to a growing list of people. [2:15 p.m.] Y esterday, for example, he claimed that the activities of a person in India were contrary to the laws of British Col- umbia. Of course, we’ve reviewed that, because people in the Ministry of Health have nothing better to do than to follow up on the reckless and false allegations of the member. Here’s what we found: that this individual was not providing direct support for service desk tickets, who know; no access to clinical systems; no access to remotely view screens or systems; and no access to private medical or personal information.

The member now has made false claims on multiple continents. I think we can move off this file. Mr. Speaker:The member for Richmond-Queensbor- ough on a supplemental. J. Johal:I want to thank the minister not responsible for citizens’ services for once again ignoring my question. Once again, a question to the Minister of Citizens’ Ser- vices. Has any health authority in B.C., upon learning about NTT Data’s move to use foreign employees, asked the service provider to cease and desist? Hon. A. Dix: The member has made repeated false claims. He refuses to apologize for claims that have been demonstrated to be false.

It’s hard to know where to go from there. He has specifically asserted that information, personal health information of British Columbians, went outside the province. That is false. It is totally false, yet he con- tinues to make the assertion. He has made the assertion that people at the Provincial Health Services Authority, the Ministry of Health and others have engaged in illegal and unethical activities. He’s made that on the record, and it is false.

The time has come, I think, for the member simply to apologize to the people of B.C. for wasting the time of this Legislature and refusing, by the way, to inform him- self as to the realities of this contract. I have repeatedly offered him briefings on said subject. He refuses, because he’s not interested in the facts. He’s only inter- ested in some smear campaign in the Legislature, based on no evidence and no facts.

M. de Jong: Maybe the time has come for a minister who is simply interested in sidestepping this issue to get out of the way and allow the minister whose statutory responsibility it is to protect the privacy of British Colum- bians to indicate how she has been protecting the privacy of British Columbians. I’ll ignore the insults from the Minister of Health, who continues to insult the opposition for doing its job in ensuring that the government is doing its job in protecting the privacy of British Columbians. It’s an important ques- tion. It’s a question. I’ll ask it again.

Has any health authority in British Columbia, upon learning that NTT Data was using foreign personnel to fulfil its contractual obligations in B.C…? Has any health authority in British Columbia demanded that NTT cease and desist from that activity? Hon. A. Dix: I have no interest, as the member knows, in insulting the opposition. What I find frankly unaccept- able is repeated false claims. Two days ago the member and the member for Rich- mond-Queensborough made allegations of illegal activit- ies. They’re not making those today because they know they’re false, yet they don’t apologize.

This is, I think, con- duct that reflects them, so it is their conduct that I find unacceptable. It’s their conduct of making smears without foundation and without evidence. If there was a breach of the health information of British Columbians, there would be an obligation to report that to the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner. Since there’s been no breach, there’s been no report, and there’s no evidence of such a breach. Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12377

The very things the member has been saying in the last two days…. Is he saying that he’s continuing to make those specific allegations, even though they have been proven to be false? Is he going to continue to do that in this Legis- lature? Are we going to continue to have day after day of this, where members make claims that are untrue and then they don’t come back and apologize when they’re estab- lished to be true? If the member thinks that is appropriate behaviour or if he feels insulted by me commenting on it, then I’m afraid that’s too bad. Mr. Speaker:The member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental.

M. de Jong:Well, what I am going to do, what the mem- ber from Richmond-Queensborough is going to do, what every member of the opposition is going to do is what members of the government should be doing, and that is protecting the privacy interests of British Columbians. [2:20 p.m.] On July 29 of this year, NTT Data services began providing desktop management services, workstation support and 24-7 service desk support to all of the health authorities in British Columbia. They used something called active directory domain services.

They are used to provide the support — which, I am told, involves a single log-on for access to the management of users’ computers and other objects within our health information net- work domain. This work, we know as a fact, was carried out by staff located outside of the country, in the United States and India, exposing the private medical records of British Col- umbians to foreign access. In a few moments, I will, on behalf of the opposition and the member for Richmond- Queensborough, table the letter that is being sent to the Privacy Commissioner to ask for a formal investigation into this matter.

I’ll give the ministers, the government, anyone in the government one last opportunity to do the right thing and confirm…. I’ll ask this: has anyone in this govern- ment, confronted by the facts as we know them to be, provided that information to the Privacy Commission- er and asked that the Privacy Commissioner conduct an investigation to ensure that the privacy rights, the per- sonal health information of British Columbians was not improperly accessed or exposed to access by people out- side of Canada? Hon. A. Dix:Well, the member said that we were avoid- ing the question. I’m not.

The allegations made by the member for Richmond-Queensborough and the allega- tions made by the member for Abbotsford West are false. They’re false. Health information did not go outside the country. There has not been a breach. Therefore, there’s no need refer anything to the Information and Privacy Com- missioner. I can’t be any more direct than that. The assertions made yesterday by the members are false, and yes, of course, we followed up on them in detail, just in case. The allegations they made on Monday they made in a press release outside this House accusing individuals of illegal activity.

That’s what the member for Abbotsford West did. So when they’re arguing, “Oh, we feel hurt by the fact that you’re calling out our false allegations, ” remember what they said. I just find it unbelievable that with no evidence, with no information…. They’re not even defending today what they asserted on Monday and Tuesday in this House. They’re not even defending it, hon. Speaker. I think that it’s fair to say that this has been a complete and utter waste of time.

What might be a better use of time, because there are important issues related to con- tracts and health information, is for the members of the opposition, should they have any interest in the facts, to get briefed. I’ve always been willing to offer that to mem- bers of the opposition on, really, any issue within the Health area, as members know. I believe every member in this House has a role to play.

When you make a false allegation and it’s shown to be false, I think it’s time, in this House, for members of the Liberal Party and, maybe, the Leader of the Opposition to stand up and apologize to the people of the Provincial Health Services Authority, the people of NTT Canada, the people in the Ministry of Health — and if he feels like it, me — for the conduct under his direction this week of his members in this Legislature. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS AND COMMUNITY SAFETY J. Isaacs:Instead of fixing the problem of homelessness, the Minister of Housing has made the situation worse.

Brian Dobbs owns a business near the former Howard Johnson Hotel in Vancouver and says he has not heard from B.C. Housing or the B.C. government. He’s seen things deteriorate drastically. “Employees no longer want to work at this location due to unsafe conditions, cars vandalized and hotel residents aggressively coming into our establishment and threatening staff. ” Brian and his employees have to deal with this every single day. To the Minister of Housing, when will she stop mak- ing the situation worse and start providing proper sup- port for everyone? Hon. S.

Robinson:We all can appreciate how COVID has created stress for everybody. It has created stress for families. It has created stress for business owners not sure how to keep things going because of the impact on our economy. It has also created stress for housing providers, for shelters and for homeless people. It has created stress right across the spectrum. 12378 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

[2:25 p.m.] We have a choice, hon. Speaker. We have a choice of either housing people where they can get supports, where they can rest their heads, where they can have access to people who can make sure that they are eating properly, taking medication, accessing health appointments and get- ting a better grip on their lives. The other choice was to leave people without any supports, to leave people without a roof over their head, to leave people without any decent meals. That, to me, was really the choice that was before us as a government. COVID has absolutely had impact on everybody.

We are doing our very best to make sure that we could provide some supports for those that are most vulnerable in our communities. [End of question period.] Petitions D. Davies: I am here to present a petition on behalf of almost 35,000 parents across the province who are dis- pleased with the September back-to-school. I’ d like to thank Edmond Luk for being the organizer of this. R. Singh: I rise today to present a petition from the Ghadar Party centenary celebrations committee calling for the government of Canada to overturn the convictions against Shahid Mewa Singh.

The petition has received 10,000 signatures from people across the province, includ- ing signatories from my constituency of Surrey–Green Timbers. As this House has condemned racism in all forms before, I’m pleased to present this petition on behalf of my constituents. Tabling Documents M. de Jong: I seek to table a document, a letter dated August 12, 2020, being sent to the Information and Pri- vacy Commissioner for British Columbia by the member for Richmond-Queensborough on behalf of the opposi- tion asking that he examine a potentially serious breach of B.C. privacy laws. Leave granted. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. Farnworth:I call, in this House, continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Finance. Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FINANCE (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Gibson in the chair. The committee met at 2:29 p.m. On Vote 25: ministry operations, $267,491,000 (continued). [2:30 p.m.] S. Bond: My co-critic for Finance and I are pleased to have the opportunity, once again today, to work through some important issues related to the Finance Ministry. I thank the minister and her staff for the work that was done yesterday, and also to our colleagues who participated.

The minister does have, as I said yesterday, a bit of a road map, which we have provided to her and to her staff. We will, however, at this point, continue to have some of our MLA colleagues participate in the debate. We thank those who participated yesterday. So we’ll begin this after- noon, and then we’ll have a series of MLAs. We’ll begin this afternoon with our colleague from Kelowna-Mission. S. Thomson:I appreciate the opportunity this afternoon to have a brief opportunity for a couple of questions.

I thank my colleagues for providing that opportunity, and thank you to the minister for being available for these questions. I will add my comments, as well as my other colleagues have, thanking the minister for all the work she’s doing under the current situation. My questions are… I’ve just got a couple of questions. They relate to the speculation tax.

The minister will well know our view on the tax and the fact that we maintain the view, in its current implementation, current applica- tion, that it was ill-advised, and it continues to have a neg- ative impact and should be rescinded, or at least allow the municipalities the choice of opting out of the application of the tax. My first question relates to a specific file, and then my second question will be more of a general policy question on the speculation tax. The first question…. It’s a specific situation. It’s one that we’ve communicated to the minister previously.

The minister has responded and provided us with an answer, not the answer we were hoping to hear. But I wanted to raise the issue today, in referring to this specific situation, because I think it shows a situation where the application of the tax is really not meeting the objective and is creating some very, very negative impacts and a situation that is not fair. This is a file. The minister may be familiar with it or may remember it. It is the McBratney file. This is a con- stituent who purchased a house here in 2003. In 2017, she, Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12379

for job purposes, had to move to Australia. She left the house here, kept ownership of the house and kept it avail- able for her three children who live in the house and are working here in Kelowna and living in the house. Unfor- tunately, she’s been caught in the rules around the satellite family situation. She is now being hit with the speculation tax, because her three children that are living in the house individually don’t meet the three times the market value of the rent earnings criteria in order to achieve an exemption from the tax.

Here we have a situation where we have a single house being left so that her children can be in the house, con- tinue their work here. This constituent now has a situation where she has, really, only three options. [2:35 p.m.] One is to kick her children out of the house and put them out into finding some place in the rental market and then renting the house out so that she can get the exemp- tion; selling the house, which would, again, have her chil- dren have to move out of the house and into the rental market; or pay a $12,000-a-year speculation tax.

We appealed to the minister on this situation to look for an exemption for the application of the tax in this situ- ation. The response was no, sorry, the rules around satellite family and earnings apply here, and there is no exemption to be provided for this. My question to the minister is: does the minister feel that this situation is fair and that this is a situation that was intended on the speculation tax and that, in this case, she would view my constituent as a speculator or the house as vacant? It’s a speculation and vacancy tax, and clearly, she is not speculating. The house is not vacant.

It is being lived in by her three children, and forcing them out of the house and into the rental market is going to exacerbate the prob- lem. It doesn’t appear to be meeting the objectives of the speculation and vacancy tax. Would the minister consider this situation and the answer in this case as being fair to my constituent? Hon. C. James: I know we’ve had many conversations about the speculation and vacancy tax. I appreciate the member continuing to raise the issues on behalf of his community. He does a very good job of doing that.

I know we’ve had an opportunity to be able to discuss these issues, not only individually, but we’ve also had a chance through the mayors’ meeting that we have once a year with all the mayors of the communities. Certainly, the mayors in Kelowna are raising the issues that they see as well. I won’t speak to the specific file, because I obviously don’t have the information in front of me. But the issue of satellite families on a broad perspective relates to fam- ilies who bought real estate here and are not paying their taxes in British Columbia. They’re paying their taxes in other places.

They have family living here who are bene- fiting from the services and supports in British Colum- bia, but the owner of the real estate is not paying their taxes here. [2:40 p.m.] Again, I won’t speak to the specifics. I will, again, look at the issue, as the member has said. Once a year…. That meeting will be coming up again this coming fall. We certainly will be listening to the con- cerns that come forward and some of the anomalies, as the member raises, and reviewing those pieces. We did, based on the last meeting that we had with mayors.

There were some adjustments made for communities that only had water access. Those were issues that were raised by the mayors. We were able to make some of those adjustments. Military families was another issue. Those adjustments were made based on the issues that came forward. As I said, I expect we’ll hear some of those issues again when we meet with the mayors this fall. S. Thomson: Thank you to the minister for the response. I recognize that you don’t have the specific file in front of you. As I said, we did get our response from the minister on this particular situation.

But I think, as the minister commented, anomalies in the application of the tax seem to be the order of the day in many cases. There isn’t a good appeal process in the current applica- tion of the administration of the tax in order to deal with those anomalies, which I think are very legitimate. That’s why I asked the question around it to the minister.

Did the minister feel that this was a fair outcome of the applica- tion of the tax in this situation, where it is going to force either the sale of the home or taking the children out of the family home and forcing them out into the rental market in order to meet an exemption for the tax? It really seems counterproductive to the purpose here. My second question, and thank you again for the oppor- tunity, relates to a number of concerns we’re hearing from many constituents and owners in the area. It relates to the situation around the current impacts of the COVID-19 situation on the rental market in the area.

The minister will know that with restrictions on travel, the opportun- ities for vacation rental have dropped off very, very signi- ficantly, with many international students potentially not returning this fall to university at UBC Okanagan here and Okanagan College. This issue I know has come up before. It was raised yesterday in the discussion around the estim- ates about what the revenue impacts are on post-second- ary educational institutions there.

What’s happening is that many owners are finding themselves in a situation where they may not be able to get the normal rental income and rental opportunities for those properties as a result of the COVID-19 impacts and would suddenly find themselves falling out of the ability to get the exemption around meeting those minimum rental requirements. My question to the minister is: has the minister turned 12380 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

her mind or started to think about this issue going forward and whether or not there will be consideration around this in the declaration process going into 2021, for 2020, in terms of being able to meet an exemption from the specu- lation tax if you are unable to rent the property under what would be normal circumstances without the impacts of the COVID-19 situation? I think it’s something that is going to become more apparent as we move forward. So my question again is: has the minister thought about this?

Is it something that’s on her radar, something to think about going forward in terms of the speculation tax policy and the declaration process for 2021 for the situation in 2020 as a result of COVID? [2:45 p.m.] Hon. C. James: I appreciate the member raising the issue around vacancy rates in communities. It’s early going yet, and certainly we’ll be monitoring it, as we do. We monitor as part of the speculation and vacancy tax. We monitor the vacancy rates. We monitor housing in com- munities.

And just a reminder that the areas that are under the speculation and vacancy tax were chosen because of the tight housing market, because of the challenges because of the vacancy rates. Certainly, we’ll be monitor- ing those pieces as we go along, and I expect we’ll hear some feedback from the mayors when we meet with them later in the fall. As I said, it’s too early yet to know. We haven’t seen those kinds of spikes in vacancy rates yet. Again, the idea for rentals is to ensure that people who live here in British Columbia have the ability to be able to have a home in the communities they work in.

We expect that that kind of need will continue and that you won’t see that huge shift. But certainly, we’ll be monitoring as it goes along. The Chair:Member for Kelowna-Mission, was that your last question? S. Thomson:Y es, Mr. Chair, it was. The Chair:I’ll entertain questions from other members at this time. S. Sullivan:Thank you to the minister and also my col- leagues from Surrey and Prince George–Valemount for giving me a very short time here. I do have a number of questions which I think, because they’re all related, I’ll wrap up into one, first of all, because they’re all related to house taxes.

Y our government is entering its fourth year. Thirty eco- nomists from CMHC studying for over a year concluded that the rapid rise of house prices was caused by increased population, rising incomes and low interest rates, exacer- bated by lack of supply due to government policy. It recommended changing government policy to allow the market to work and create more supply. Now, your government took a different approach. Escal- ating house prices were caused by foreign, mainly Chinese, homebuyers; money launderers; and speculators.

And for over three years, you have implemented a host of taxes and measures to root out Chinese foreign buyers, money laun- derers and speculators. The result is that today house prices are up 10 percent. The exception is high-value homes, which have dropped in value because of [audio interrupted] taxes. Because prop- erty taxes are based on assessed value, this has shifted the property tax burden onto people with affordable homes. Investors from around the world have heard the message they are not welcome in British Columbia.

Is the minister willing to reassess her strategy, accept the conclusion of the federal housing economists and the scapegoating of foreigners and instead remove govern- ment policies that obstruct the creation of more housing supply? [2:50 p.m.] The next question. The first NDP government in the 1970s brought in rent controls. The result is that almost no dedicated rental housing has been built in the last 50 years other than a few buildings with special incentives; 80 to 90 percent of all dedicated rental housing today was built before those first rent controls were implemented.

These buildings are aging and are in great need of repair, which will cost building owners a lot of money, and your government has pulled down and reimposed a very severe form of rent control at a time when insurance is skyrock- eting and the pandemic is forcing many more costs. This despite the fact that economists on both the left and the right agree that rent controls harm renters and investors. More than three years later the results are in. Rents have increased by over $2,000 per year.

Will the minister recog- nize the harm that her rent controls are bringing to renters and adopt policies that economists on the left and the right agree will enable the rental housing market to work once again? Another question. The empty homes and speculation taxes were brought in because of media reports that up to 50,000 homes, mostly single-family, mainly on the west side, were sitting empty in Vancouver. It turns out that there are 20 empty homes in Dunbar and 30 in Kerrisdale.

More than half of all empty homes are actually empty condos downtown that are used throughout the year by investors and families, some by U.S. families who at one time saw B.C. as a refuge from anti-foreign ideologies in their own country. Remember that the supply of down- town condos is practically unlimited, as it is easily increased by government policy.

There are many U.S. citizens who were contributing and active members of our communities, some of whom were active investors creating jobs, who have, sadly, left Vancou- ver for good — but not before they were exposed to very, Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12381

very disrespectful audits where people can actually go into their closets to look at their clothes. One good friend who has been a tremendous member of the community was forced to go through three audits. Others now can’t get into Canada to live in their homes for the amount of time that would be needed because of COVID. I’m wondering what would happen with those. Given what we know now, will the minister reassess the arguments that led to these taxes, seek the advice of real, mainstream economists and act on their recom- mendation?

Finally, government policies have restricted the supply of housing in Metro Vancouver and beyond. Why do eco- nomists believe that relaxation of these policies would dra- matically increase the supply of housing? We have recently seen what the market would deliver if there were no government policy disincentives. The Squamish land called Sen̓áḵw is exempt from both muni- cipal and provincial taxes and policies — no rent controls, no foreign buyer taxes, no empty homes taxes. The result is highrise rental buildings on a tiny piece of land that will provide housing for thousands of people.

Will the minister take the example provided by the Squamish people and recognize that if government gets out of the way, the market will provide all the housing British Columbians need, with a little extra for foreign- ers who want to enjoy this province as well? Those are my questions. [2:55 p.m.] Hon. C. James:To the member, thank you for the ques- tions. I recognize that a number of these questions and a number of these issues also reside with the Minister of Housing. I’m sure that if the member had had some interest, there would have been an opportunity to be able to ask those questions there.

I will touch on a number of pieces. There is work that both the Housing Minister and myself have done together around the housing file. There is no question…. I would dispute the member’s comments that there wasn’t a housing issue in British Col- umbia. There was a very large housing issue in British Columbia. Anyone that the member would have talked to would have raised the concerns.

We heard those concerns as we came into government, about the lack of affordable housing and the crisis that that was causing in communities around our province — not simply a crisis for the individuals who didn’t have homes, who were struggling to be able to find affordable housing and who were spending all of their income on housing but also, in fact, a crisis for our economy. Businesses weren’t able to recruit employees because they couldn’t find affordable housing.

They’ d get a great employee on the hook, a wonderful person ready for their company, who would then look at the real estate page and decide to go somewhere else. We lost that pro- ductivity. We lost that talent. We lost that experience in British Columbia. There is no question that there is not one solution to address the housing crisis. It takes a number of solutions, which is exactly why the Minister of Housing and myself developed a 30-point housing plan to address both supply and demand.

We did, in fact, work with a number of eco- nomists, a number of economists who had specific expert- ise in the area of housing as well, as well as others who put forward their ideas. Y es, we did bring in some tax measures to, in fact, address some of the speculation, not related to specifics around individuals and where individuals are from but for people who are utilizing the housing market as specula- tion, who are using it to be able to simply create dollars for themselves rather than create homes for themselves or for others in British Columbia. So yes, we did bring in a spec- ulation and vacancy tax.

Certainly, we have seen, in the first year of the tax com- ing in, some very good results. Again, this is a tax — and I’ve said this often — where, my hope is, we see those tax dollars dropping because people are renting those empty, vacant places out. The member mentioned the fact that there were not empty single-family homes, or few of them, but that there were empty condos. Well, whether it’s an empty single- family home or an empty condo, that has a huge impact on communities.

We heard that over and over again — what the hollowing out of a community does, what kind of an impact that has on the entire neighbourhood and the challenges that that creates. So yes, we did, in fact, look at addressing that particular issue. The member mentioned rental housing. In fact, between 2017 and 2019 — so three years — we’ve created 29,000 rental housing units. The previous government created 25,000 in the previous decade. Again, we are, in fact, increasing both supply and demand, addressing both of the pieces and building rental housing. I want to correct a piece.

The member mentioned that property taxes go up with housing values. They don’t, in fact. They tend to go up with inflation. The mill rate gets adjusted to be able to address some of that piece. So that piece does get addressed. [3:00 p.m.] I will say to the member that I recognize that he is pas- sionate about his views around housing, and I would agree to disagree on many of the points that he has raised.

I think the fact that we’ve been able to look at the kinds of housing opportunities we have — we’ve been able to look at a mix of supply and demand, and we’ve been able to look at a 30-point plan to address it — really is the proof around the challenges and around the hard work that’s being done by our government. M. Morris:Good to see you, Minister. I had a constituent come into my office a while ago, 12382 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

about a month or so ago, Tom Coffey. He’s the president of Premium Truck and Trailer in Prince George. He’s got outlets in Williams Lake, Kamloops, Kelowna and Terrace as well. He came in to me extremely concerned over the invoice for the 2019 employer health tax that his company had received in April. It was for $197,693. That was after he had already paid $83,175 for MSP premiums for 2019 as well, on top of the $73,000 or $74,000 that he paid in 2018. He’s quite concerned over that, particularly into 2020 and COVID.

Although his company is still operating in the various outlets that he has, truck sales have dropped down a bit, and the trailers, but he’s still maintaining his businesses. He’s concerned. He has 130 employees at this particular time, and he feels he has no choice but to per- manently lay off probably 25 to 30 of those employees in order to make his company survive through this COVID crisis and meet the demands that he has. He’s very con- cerned about that. I’ve had two or three other companies within my riding as well come to me within the last six weeks or so, also concerned about that.

One of my questions to the minister is: have all the com- panies in British Columbia received the invoice for 2019 EHT in April of this year? Has the minister considered any kind of mitigating opportunities to lessen the burden on these companies? A lot of them are going to go broke. A lot of them are going to cease to exist. A lot of people are going to be out of work unnecessarily because these com- panies no longer have the movement. I’m just looking for- ward to any comments that the minister could offer with respect to that. [3:05 p.m.] Hon. C. James:Thank you to the member for the ques- tion.

I guess I’ll just take us back for a couple of minutes and then address the specifics around the assessment and what we’ve done around the COVID action plan on that piece. As the member will know, we did eliminate MSP premi- ums. We phased them out. We reduced them — cut them in half for 2018 and 2019. We eliminated the revenue com- ing in from medical service premiums, which was about $2.7 billion. In EHT revenue, in employer health tax rev- enue, we bring in $1.9 billion.

So there is, in fact, a savings across the province when you’re looking at the savings from the amount that was coming in from MSP and the amount we’re collecting from EHT. That, in fact, is a tax cut for businesses and for indi- viduals when you look at the elimination of those dollars. Obviously, huge supports to individuals, and also getting rid of a tax that was, quite frankly, very difficult to admin- ister and very frustrating for individuals who would move jobs. Some employers paid, and some didn’t.

This is a much fairer process, and it’s a process that other provinces use, as well, rather than the medical service premiums structure. So that change occurred. The member mentions: was there anything we could do to assist with the pressures that businesses are facing now, related to COVID? We have, in fact, deferred the employ- er health tax payments to October 1. That’s being reviewed currently. As I’ve said, as we look at the recovery plan, as we look at what supports are still needed, we’ll be looking at that October 1 date. But that is in place already. We also gave businesses….

Many of these businesses that pay the employer health tax obviously have prop- erties, as well, and pay property tax. We reduced the school tax portion of property taxes at $700 million. That’s not a deferral. That was actually a tax break that we provided to businesses, because, again, we know there’s a cash flow issue, and deferrals still come back to have to be paid. So in that case, that’s a $700 million cut that we provided directly. The individual…. Again, I don’t know the specifics of the case, but the member mentioned that they had received their assessment for 2019, so they may have already filed.

There isn’t a requirement not to file. We just gave the option for people to not file until October, to defer. This individual may have gone ahead and filed. Regardless, we’ve had a number of people who’ve just filed anyway and been able to make their payments or wanted to make their payments. M. Morris:I appreciate the answer, Minister. Thank you. That’s all the questions I have. I’m going to turn it over to Chilliwack-Kent now. L. Throness:I have several questions about child care that I would like to put to the Finance Minister. First of all, the first concern is the throne speech.

In the throne speech, the government talked about child care for all who need it, but it omitted the NDP platform promise for child care to every parent who needs or wants it. I’m wondering if the Minister of Finance can clarify the throne speech language for us. Will child care subsidies be available to parents based on need only or for all parents who need or want those subsidies? [3:10 p.m.] Hon. C. James: The member, I’m sure, has canvassed these issues with the Minister of State for Child Care. That’s where the questions, obviously, and the specifics and the discussion would go.

I have to say it’s one of the areas…. Certainly, as a mem- ber of the government, I’m very proud of the work we’re doing around a quality, accessible child care system for parents in British Columbia. It’s a critical piece. COVID has certainly, I think, reminded us of the crit- ical nature of child care and the need for child care in our province. So I’m very proud of the work that we’re doing in the area of child care. I’m very proud of the investments we’ve put in as well. Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12383

L. Throness:I would simply note that the minister did not answer my question — whether child care will be available based on need, according to the throne speech, or based on the NDP platform. I would simply request that she answer that question. I want to move on to ask if the government is going to retain its commitment to the amounts it promised toward child care. It’s on page 9 of February’s budget. This might have changed because of COVID. Are the numbers $674 million toward child care this year, $679 million next year and $684 million in ’22-23?

Is the government still com- mitted to those numbers being spent on child care? Hon. C. James:Y es, as I mentioned, how proud I am of our hard work and the minister’s work on child care. There are no changes to the budget. L. Throness:I want to move on to ask a question about the future. Spending on child care is static for the next three years, at about $680 million a year, as the minister has confirmed. At the end of ’22-23, the government will be halfway toward its ten-year plan for universal care. What is the minister’s forecast of the total annual cost of universal child care? Hon. C.

James:I think the member knows well that we do three-year budgeting cycles, and we will be going into the budget process this fall. We’ll obviously be looking, as we do each and every year, at our priorities as government, at where the resources are, at what situation the province is in, and making those decisions based on future years. That will come along. Again, as I’ve said, this is a key priority for us as government, a key priority for British Columbians.

COVID has, in fact, made it even more important and has certainly made people more aware of the critical nature of child care — not simply as a smart investment for families, which it is, a smart investment for women get- ting back into the workforce, which it is, and a wise invest- ment for children, in providing quality for children as they move into the school years. It’s also a very smart economic investment to be able to provide support for our economy, for people to get back into the workforce, for women to be able to make that connection.

To address the issue of sup- ports for families, you’re going to have a much more pro- ductive workforce if people know their children are well cared for in affordable, quality, accessible child care. L. Throness: I just have two more questions. The greatest shortage in the field of child care right now is the shortage of qualified early childhood educators. The gov- ernment is spending $26 million per year on wage sub- sidies for them, which is just 4 percent of the total spent on child care per year. Why is the minister spending the smal- lest amount on its biggest problem? [3:15 p.m.] Hon. C.

James:Again, I certainly hope that the member had some of this discussion with the minister of state, who I know would love to answer these questions passionately, as well, on child care. I would remind the member that we are seeing people now express interest in going into the field of early child- hood education because they see hope in this province, because they see opportunity once again, when it comes to child care, which they had not seen for a great many years.

I, in fact, was living in Prince George when the early childhood program in 2002 was shut down at the college because people didn’t see an opportunity to be able to work in this field because they didn’t see investments being made in this field. We now see investments, critical invest- ments, long-term investments being made in a quality, accessible, affordable child care system for parents and for children in British Columbia. We are making investments, yes, as the member men- tioned, in wages. We’re making investments in bursaries and supports for people who want to access training.

We’re expanding training spaces because, again, an early child- hood education system needs quality early childhood edu- cators, and we’re investing in that area as well. The Chair:Does that conclude your questions, Mem- ber? L. Throness:I have one more question, Chair. Finally, I want to change topics and ask about the low- wage redress. As the minister well knows, there are thou- sands of non-union workers in the social service sector who don’t get the same pay as their union counterparts, even though they often work right alongside one another.

I want to add to that another category, the essential ser- vice workers in independent living residences who deliv- er the same care as in publicly funded retirement facilities, yet they don’t get pandemic pay. When will the minister equalize pay between union and non-union workers and between independent centres and publicly funded retirement facilities? When will she do that? [3:20 p.m.] Hon. C. James: I think, as the member knows, there have never been equalized wages between non-union and union.

There’s always been a differential, whether we’re talking about benefits, whether we’re talking about pen- sion, pieces that are negotiated by unions. But we also rec- ognize that there are recruitment and retention issues, par- ticularly in the social services field, so $10 million has gone to the social services field to address the issue of recruit- ment and retention in the non-union sector.

We also have the social services round table, which is looking at broader issues — not simply the wages piece, but some of the other challenges when it comes to recruit- ment and retention, because we know how critical the not- 12384 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

for-profit sector is to providing services. So that round table is continuing their discussions with the Ministry of Social Development and Poverty Reduction around other ideas and other approaches that could be used beyond the $10 million to look at recruitment and retention as well. L. Throness:No further questions, Chair. T. Wat:I appreciate the opportunity to ask a number of questions on Vancouver Chinatown to the Finance Minis- ter. Vancouver Chinatown businesses are struggling to survive with few targeted COVID-19 supports from the federal and provincial governments.

What is this gov- ernment doing to support Vancouver Chinatown small businesses? Hon. C. James:Thank you to the member for the ques- tion. I think we know that small businesses across the province really are struggling. There’s no question that COVID-19 has had an impact on individuals, on small businesses, on the economy in British Columbia. As the member will know, we put out our COVID-19 action plan in March to provide immediate support. We tried to ensure that our programs would support the feder- al programs and fill gaps.

That’s really what we were look- ing at to make sure that businesses had the widest oppor- tunity to be able to access programs. I’ll run through a few of those pieces, for the member, of business supports that were put in place. We have a whole other list, of course, of individual supports for individuals. Many of those small business owners also access some of the individual supports because of the challenges that they were facing as well. For businesses, for example, the employer health tax payments, as we talked about earlier with your colleague, have been delayed.

Those have been deferred until September 30, 2020. That makes, again, a support, and those are being reviewed currently right now as well. [3:25 p.m.] We also extended tax filing and payment deadlines for the provincial sales tax, for PST, for municipal and region- al district tax on short-term accommodation, the tobacco tax, the motor fuel tax and the carbon tax — again, until September 30, 2020. Those make a big difference for busi- nesses that were closed and didn’t have staff in place, for example, to be able to ensure that they could get their fil- ings done.

The EHT provides support for individual businesses when it comes to cash, but the payment deadlines and the tax filings made a big difference for businesses that didn’t have people in place to be able to address getting those fil- ings done or have key staff who were able to do that. They won’t be hit with penalties, and that deadline has moved along. We also delayed the increase to the carbon tax rate again to October 1. The application of PST to sugary drinks has been delayed. Again, those decisions will be made as part of the recovery plan.

Then the other largest support that was provided to businesses, of course, was the 25 percent, on average, reduction in the school portion of the property tax. That’s the portion that’s collected by the provincial government. We gave that 25 percent reduction in tax for most busi- nesses. That’s not a deferral; that’s an actual cut. That was $700 million in a cut to provide businesses with support. Again, that’s a piece that was a direct help to businesses in the support during this difficult time. T.

Wat:Thank you to the minister for repeating all of the COVID programs for business, but this is really cold comfort for businesses in Chinatown. Jin Li has run her Chinese Art Crafts for 15 years in Chinatown. Come September her shop will be shutting down permanently. It’s because the programs that the minister was mentioning just now could not help her at all. I hope the minister can listen to all of the challenges facing Chinatown. Chinatown is supposed to be a national historic site, designated in 2010.

Also, this government is joining hands with the Vancouver municipal government to apply for UNESCO designation for the historic Vancou- ver Chinatown. In addition, this government has openly announced its commitment to establish a Chinese-Cana- dian museum in Chinatown, even though no location or details were given. Y et this government has not paid attention to the loss of cultural heritage businesses — to protect the historic Van- couver Chinatown. The federal government has provided other key cultural areas, such as Granville Island, rent relief in federally owned buildings.

Will this government also provide rental support for B.C. businesses in muni- cipally owned buildings who are not eligible for Canada emergency commercial rent assistance? Hon. C. James:I certainly am certain that every mem- ber in this Legislature shares a passion for Vancouver Chinatown.

Certainly, as a Victoria resident, I can tell you the passion is shared with Victoria Chinatown as well and the support for the contributions that those businesses make to not only our cultural importance in our com- munity but our economic importance as well. [3:30 p.m.] The member mentioned the issue of the federal pro- gram in place for landlords to be able to access rent. There is no question that there have been challenges with that program, and in fact, we as a province have raised those challenges with the federal government, as other provinces have done. [R.

Chouhan in the chair.] The program relies on the landlord applying, not neces- Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12385

sarily the tenant, and often the small business is the tenant. So we did put in place…. We are putting in resources to support people through that program — $79 million towards the federal program. We also put in place, as the member will know, a ban on evictions for tenants when the landlord could apply for the program, fit the criteria for the program and did not. They are not able to evict those tenants because they had the opportunity — again, encouragement for those businesses, for those owners to be able to apply for the program.

But there’s no question that the federal program had some real issues with it and real challenges that were there. The one other piece I would just mention, of course, is the economic recovery plan that is coming this fall which, again, will continue to provide support, just as we’ve been doing from the very beginning. The $1.5 billion is an addi- tional payment towards economic recovery, because I think, as we all know, economic recovery has been occur- ring since COVID has started. If we don’t have a good-quality health plan, we can’t address economic recovery.

If we don’t put supports in place for people, for individuals, we don’t have a good recovery plan. So those additional dollars will be coming this fall as well. T. Wat:Again, thank you to the Finance Minister for describing different kinds of economic support programs. But again, the fact is that Chinatown businesses are not getting any help. That’s why many of them are leaving. Quite a number of them are leaving. As I said earlier, we are applying for a UNESCO des- ignation for the historic Vancouver Chinatown.

Has the minister considered if the application would be considered by UNESCO if most of the businesses promoting culture, arts and crafts are forced to leave Chinatown because they don’t have any targeted support from this government? Hon. C. James:Again, I agree with the member around the historic Chinatown, both Vancouver and Victoria and, in fact, other places around the province.

It’s part of why we’re so excited about moving ahead with the Chinese museum and looking at a hub-and-spoke model to be able to provide support not simply to Vancouver but, in fact, to Chinatowns and the Chinese community and the history and culture around our province — to be able to recognize it. We’re very pleased to be able to do that. I appreciate the member’s concerns. We share those concerns for the businesses in Chinatown, for the busi- nesses across British Columbia, the impact that they’ve faced because of COVID. That’s why we put the programs and supports in place.

That’s why we put the cut, when it comes to property taxes, in place. It’s why we’re continuing to look at our economic recovery as well. T. Wat:Thank you to the Finance Minister for talking about her passion for the historic Chinatowns both in Vic- toria and Vancouver. Let me put on the record…. Let me ask once again on behalf of all of the small businesses in Chinatown, even though Chinatown is not my riding but because I’m a Canadian of Chinese descent, and I’m very passionate about the historic Chinatown there. I think I need to speak on behalf of them, even though I’m not their MLA.

I’m disappointed that their MLA is not bringing this up. Once again, what step will this government take to help businesses in Chinatown endure this crisis? And what tailored option will they provide for this historic and cul- turally significant area so that this historic Vancouver Chinatown will not go down the drain? [3:35 p.m.] Hon. C. James: As I said, everyone is concerned. I’m sure everyone shares the passion for small business in our province.

Whether it’s in historic Chinatown in Vancouver, whether it’s small businesses in communities in rural B.C., this is an issue, in fact, for all British Columbians when it comes to the impact of COVID-19. We are providing a number of supports. I’ve mentioned the pieces around deferrals of taxes, around deferrals of payments, where people have been given both the support through cash flow, as well as the support through not hav- ing to make filings, through the $700 million plus for property tax, which is, as I said, a cut, not simply a deferral.

And we’re continuing to look at those supports for eco- nomic recovery as well. P . Milobar:A couple of questions of various topics, all somewhat relating to the environment, though, and car- bon taxes for the minister here. I canvassed this quite extensively with the other two ministers. I guess on the first question, it took a while, but I was able to establish with the Minister of Environment — and he acknowledged, full stop — that the Ministry of Envir- onment, with a government in a minority situation, propped up by the Green Party, has seen its environment budget cut by $4.6 million this year.

I’m wondering why the minister would have authorized a cut to the Ministry of Environment’s budget of $4.6 million. [3:40 p.m.] Hon. C. James: Thanks for the question. I’m guess- ing…. Again, I wasn’t there, obviously, for the Ministry of Environment estimates, but I’m presuming the member is talking about the adjustments that were made, in fact, to every ministry.

Last year the member will remember, when I announced the budget, I announced that I requested all ministries to make sure that they were looking for efficien- cies across government — mainly administrative costs, things like consulting contracts, those kinds of things, less than 1 percent of operating expenses across government 12386 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, August 12, 2020

— and every ministry was expected to find those reduc- tions, travel included, in those costs. The Ministry of Environment was expected to do that as well. They also received, as the member knows, CleanBC funding, and they also received $24.9 million in new cap- ital expenses. P . Milobar:Well, in the Ministry of Environment, 50 percent of their cost structure is actually wages for staff to provide services to the public. So $1.8 million of the cuts actually came to B.C. Parks, and we are now seeing that B.C.

Parks is in dire straits, with everyone trying to get out and lots of complaints about the lack of services in there. In last year’s budget mid-year, when most of the pro- grams would have already been delivered by B.C. Parks because it was September, the minister mandated that the Ministry of Environment find $6.76 million in savings in a budget that was predominantly already spoken for within that fiscal year.

This year the minister approved $4.6 million worth of cuts to the Ministry of Environment, for a grand total of just around $11 million worth of cuts to the Ministry of Environment over the last two years — again, by a minor- ity government propped up by a Green party. I guess I’ll ask…. I don’t think we’re going to hear any other rationale for why the minister would have authorized that type of a cut two years in a row to the Ministry of Environment.

However, when I questioned the Minister of Transport- ation around Transportation cuts — and there are conflict- ing answers between the Transportation Minister and oth- er statements made by the Minister of Finance around the same time — it came to light that B.C. Transit also saw a funding cut in this year’s budget to the tune of $4.5 mil- lion. That was verified by the Minister of Transportation to me in her estimates as well. So a $4.5 million cut to B.C. Transit.

When I asked if funding would be restored in full next year, as the Minister of Finance had committed to in one of her comments around the funding cut for this year, the rationale was that B.C. Transit had surplus funds to use. Well, B.C. Transit has around $40 million worth of sur- plus funds. So for the Minister of Finance to then say that they’re going to get all of their funding back next year, but they’ d still have about $36 million in a reserve fund…. [3:45 p.m.] We’ve seen a cut of $4.5 million to B.C. Transit for all communities outside of the Metro area.

Can the minister confirm whether or not, indeed, they will be back to full funding that was originally charted out in the three-year plan before this cut came? And if not, what will the new amount be? It should actually have seen a $6.5 million bump next year. If they get held to the same line as this current year’s budget has now delivered, that would be about an $11 million cut to transit over the last two years as well. Hon. C. James: The member is correct about the $4 million from transit and the commitment that they made to utilize surplus funds. They felt they had surplus funds.

They were able to utilize those, which meant that all their commitments were continuing on. Any decisions about the budget, obviously, will happen during the budget process, as they do in each and every year. We go through all of the ministries. We go through all of the commitments. We go through all of the pro- grams. We go through all of the requests. We make those decisions as we go through the budget process. We’ll do that for transit, just as we do for every ministry. P . Milobar:That’s, frankly, disappointing.

I’m not sure how much stock, then, the public needs to take any time a minister speaks at a podium at a media event. The Minister of Finance made it very clear, shortly after it was discovered that there was this cut this year, that B.C. Transit would see their funding brought back in full the following year. Today we’re hearing the minister say: “Well, maybe not. ” So I’m not sure what the point of having press events and answering questions from the media is if your answer can change from week to week or month to month on commitments. Organizations and cities, in particular….

I know very well the planning length and horizon that transit takes with municipalities and how complex it is. They need to have that type of certainty. Perhaps the minister could provide a little bit of insight, then, into the confidence and supple agreement and the inner workings of how this all unfolds. Given that we have established that there was a $4.5 million cut to transit this year and given that there has been an $11 million cut to the Ministry of Environment over the last two years….

How much consultation is done between the Minister of Fin- ance and the Green Party as the final budget document gets approved to move forward to the Legislature? Hon. C. James:First of all, there was no cut to transit. In fact, Transit had reserves, and they’re using their reserves. So there was no cut to transit. On the issue of CASA, I in fact sit on CASA along with the Minister of Environment, as our two representatives. We have meetings every couple of weeks, every few weeks throughout the year.

We put an agenda together, and we talk about issues that are current. [3:50 p.m.] When it comes to the budget process, the opportunity for our partners in the CASA agreement to bring forward their priorities is there for them. They talk about their priorities, and then, as usual, cabinet makes the final decisions. P . Milobar:Again, it’s concerning, I guess, that there does not seem to be as much sway within the CASA agree- ment when it comes to environmental issues as one might Wednesday, August 12, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12387

expect from a Green Party and a former head of the Sierra Club, the Environment Minister. In terms of the transit cut, I’m not going to continue on with this. I did canvass it at length with the Transportation Minister. The cold reality is…. Surely, the Finance Minister has been around government for long enough and, even as a school board trustee, would understand this as well. If you take the core funding dollar figure and reduce it, it’s a cut. It gets harder and harder each year that happens for government to find the makeup money in the following year’s budget.

If the funding is not reinstated back to the original plan next year, for next year’s budget, that means the government would have to come up with $6½ million in one year to try to get back to the current funding level that Transit has been planning with municipalities around. The year after that, it gets worse. It gets to be closer to $7 million or $8 million or $9 million that sud- denly has to be found, in any given fiscal year, to try to bring the funding back into play.

It is a little disingenuous — maybe that’s a good word to use — around saying that it’s not a cut when we all know how much more difficult it is to try to get those dollars back to original levels once they go a budget cycle or two without being refunded back to the full amount. On to the carbon tax, though. The ministry yeste

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20200812pm-Hansard-n356
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20200812pm Hansard n356
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a6c431ced5c1ae4156321efb8d134a62e6d56e42

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