Manitoba Hansard — 7 June 2012 (Sitting 47B, 40th Legislature, 1st Session)

40-1-47b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXIV No. 47B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, June 7, 2012 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte PC MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris PC WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

2231 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 7, 2012 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Personal Care Homes and Long-Term Care–Steinbach Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The city of Steinbach is one of the fastest growing communities in Manitoba and one of the largest cities in the province.

This growth has resulted in pressure on a number of important services, including personal care homes and long-term care space in the city. Many long -time residents of the city of Steinbach have been forced to live out their final years outside of Steinbach because of the shortage of personal care homes and long-term care facilities. Individuals who have lived in, worked in, and contributed to the city of Steinbach their entire lives should not be forced to spend their final years in a place far from friends and family.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health ensure additional personal care homes and long-term care spaces are made available in the city of Steinbach on a priority basis. Mr. Speaker, this is signed by E. Butland, E. Dueck, E. Henzel and thousands of other Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. PTH 16 and PTH 5 North–Traffic Signals Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And these are the reasons for this petition: The junction of PTH 16 and PTH 5 north is an increasingly busy intersection which is used by motorists and pedestrians alike. The Town of Neepawa has raised concerns with the Highway Traffic Board about safety levels at this intersection. The Town of Ne epawa has also passed a resolution requesting that Manitoba Infrastructure and Transportation install traffic lights at this intersection in order to increase safety.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider making the installation of traffic lights at the intersection of PTH 16 and PTH 5 north a priority project in order to help protect the safety of the motorists and pedestrians who use it. This petition is sig ned by R. Smith, W. Zachowski, T. Unger and many, many, many more fine Manitobans. COMMITTEE REPORTS Mr. Speaker: T he honourable member for Rossmere. An Honourable Member: Concordia. Mr. Speaker: Oh, pardon me. Concordia.

Standing Committee on Human Resources Second Report Mr. Matt Wiebe (Chai rperson): I wish to present the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Human Resources. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Human Resources presents– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Dispense. Your Standing Committee on HUMAN RESOURCES presents the following as its Second Report. Meetings Your Committee met on June 6, 2012 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building.

2232 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 2) – The Protecting Affordability for University Students Act (Council on Post - Secondary Education Act Amended)/Loi sur la protection de l'accessibilité aux études universitaires (modification de la

Loi sur le Conseil de l'enseignement postsecondaire) Committee Membership • Mr. EWASKO • Hon. Mr. KOSTYSHYN • Mr. NEVAKSHONOFF • Hon. Mr. ROBINSON • Mrs. ROWAT • Mr. SARAN • Mr. SCHULER • Hon. Ms. SELBY • Mr. SMOOK • Hon. Mr. SWAN • Mr. WIEBE Your Committee elected Mr. W IEBE as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. S ARAN as the Vice - Chairperson. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following twenty four presentations on Bill (No. 2) – The Protecting Affordability for University Students Act (Council on Post-Secondary Education Act Amended)/Loi sur la protection de l'accessibilité aux études universitaires (modification de la

Loi sur le Conseil de l'enseignement postsecondaire): Jack Zupko, Private Citizen Jennifer Black, Private Citizen Bilan Arte, President, University of Manitoba Students' Union Zach Fleisher, Private Citizen Allen Mills, Private Citizen Nicolas Audette, President, Local 38 University of St.

Boniface Student Association Mohamed Ammoumou, Canadian Federation of Student Manitoba Pamela McLeod, The University of Winnipeg Lloyd Axworthy, Private Citizen Tyler Blashko and Nawal Tajdin (by leave) , Private Citizen Sharon Alward, University of Manitoba Faculty Association Matt McLean, Canadian Union of Public Employees - local 3909 Kwesi Bruce, Private Citizen Kyra Wilson, Private Citizen Ashley Shewchuk, Private Citizen Wendy Josephson, Private Citizen James Beddome, Leader, Green Party of Manitoba Monica Igweagu, Private Citizen Irene Fubara-Manuel, Private Citizen Jordan Poitras, Private Citizen Kaleigh Krochak, Private Citizen Cameron Monkmaa, Private Citizen Theodoros Messinezis Zegeye -Gebrehiwot, Private Citizen Paula Ducharme, Private Citizen Written Submissions Your Committee received the following three written submissions on Bill (No. 2) – The Protecting Affordability for University Students Act (Council on Post-Secondary Education Act Amended)/Loi sur la protection de l'accessibilité aux études universitaires (modification de la

Loi sur le Conseil de l'enseignement postsecondaire): Alexandra Dansen, Private Citizen Lauren Bosc, President, Univer sity of Winnipeg Students’ Association Ericka Beaudry, Private Citizen Bill Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 2) – The Protecting Affordability for University Students Act (Council on Post - Secondary Education Act Amended)/Loi sur la protection de l'accessibilité aux études universitaires (modification de la

Loi sur le Conseil de l'enseignement postsecondaire) Your C ommittee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Wiebe: I move, seconded by the honourable member for The Maples (Mr. Saran), that the report of the second committee –report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Second Report Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2233 Madam Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT presents the following as its Second Report. Meetings Your Committee met on June 6, 2012 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building.

Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 3) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Speed Limits in School Zones)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (limites de vitesse dans les zones scolaires) • Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Inter -City Bus Service)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (service d'autobus interurbain) • Bill (No. 10) – The Securities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières • Bill (No. 18) – The Affordable Utility Rate Accountability Act/Loi sur la respons abilisation en matière de tarifs de services publics abordables • Bill (No. 20) – The Planning Amendment Act (Inland Port Area)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (zone intermodale) • Bill (No. 27) – The Insurance Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les assurances • Bill (No. 31) – The Bilingual Service Centres Act/Loi sur les centres de services bilingues • Bill (No. 32) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Powers of Traffic Authorities over Cycling Traffic)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (pouvoirs des autorités chargées de la circulation à l'égard des bicyclettes) Committee Membership • Hon. Mr. A SHTON • Ms. BRAUN • Mr. BRIESE • Mr. DEWAR • Mr. EICHLER • Mr. HELWER • Hon. Mr. LEMIEUX • Mr. PETTERSEN • Mrs. STEFANSON • Hon. Mr. STRUTHERS • Mr. WHITEHEAD Your Committee elected Mr. Pettersen as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Ms.

Braun as the Vice - Chairperson. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following seven presentations on Bill (No. 3) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Speed Limits in School Zones)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (limites de vitesse dans les zones scolaires): Doug Dobrowolski, President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities Christian Sweryda, Private Citizen Charles Feaver, Bike to the Future Dr.

Lynne Warda, Winnipeg Regional Health Authority – Injury Prevention Program Tom McMahon, Private Citizen Jon Giroux, Private Citizen Anders Swanson, Active and Safe Routes to School Program Your Committee heard the follow ing presentation on Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Inter-City Bus Service)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (service d'autobus interurbain): Doug Dobrowolski, President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities Your Committee heard the fo llowing two presentations on Bill (No. 18) – The Affordable Utility Rate Accountability Act/Loi sur la responsabilisation en matière de tarifs de services publics abordables: Gloria Desorcy, The Consumers Association of Canada - Manitoba Branch James Beddome, Leader, Green Party of Manitoba Your Committee heard the following three presentations on Bill (No. 27) – The Insurance Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les assurances: Frank Zinatelli and Gary Senft (by leave), Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association and Great West Life Assurance Company Lindsay Olson, Insurance Bureau of Canada

2234 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 Scott Feasey, IBAM – Insurance Brokers Association of Manitoba Your Committee heard the two presentations on Bill (No. 31) – The Bilingual Service Centres Act/Loi sur les centres de services bilingues: Daniel Boucher, Societé Franco-Manitobain Phillipe Richer, AJEFM – Association des juristes d’expression française du Manitoba inc.

Your Committee heard the following two presentations on Bill (No. 32) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Powers of Traffic Authorities over Cycling Traffic)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (pouvoirs des autorités chargées de la circulation à l'égard des bicyclettes): Charles Feaver, Bike to the Future Jason Carter, Sport for Life Written Submissions Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 18) – The Affordable Utility Rate Accountability Act/Loi sur la responsabilisation en matière de tarifs de services publics abordables: Peter Miller, Green Action Centre Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 32) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Powers of Traffic Authorities over Cycling Traffic)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (pouvoirs des autorités chargées de la circulation à l'égard des bicyclettes): Dean Kriellaars, Private Citizen Doug Dobrowolski, As sociation of Manitoba Municipalities Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 3) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Speed Limits in School Zones)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (limites de vitesse dans les zones scolaires) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Inter -City Bus Service)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (service d'autobus interurbain) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 10) – The Sec urities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières • Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 18) – The Affordable Utility Rate Accountability Act/Loi sur la responsabilisation en matière de tarifs de services publics abordables Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 20) – The Planning Amendment Act (Inland Port Area)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (zone intermodale) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 27) – The Insurance Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les assurances Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 31) – The Bilingual Service Centres Act/Loi sur les centres de services bilingues Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 32) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Powers of Traffic Authorities over Cycling Traffic)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (pouvoirs des autorités chargées de la circulation à l'égard des bicyclettes) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr.

Pettersen: I move, seconded by the honourable member from Rossmere, that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I wish to table the report prepared in accordance with

section 43(1) of The Fatality Inquiries Act. Mr. Speaker: I have a report to table. In accordance with subsection 58(1) of The Freedom of Information and P rotection of Privacy Act and subsection 37(1) of The Personal Health Information Act, I am pleased to table the annual report of the

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2235 Manitoba Ombudsman for the year ended December 31st, 2011. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have–I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today the Consul General for India, Ms. Preeti Saran. On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. And also, in the publ ic gallery we have with us from Sherwood School 23 grade 9–grade –it doesn't say–students under the direction of Mr. Edward Khinich.

This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). On behalf of all honourable m embers, we welcome you here this afternoon. And also, from Neil Campbell School we have 23 students under the direction of Mr. Alvin Dyck. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Flooding Financial Compensation Consideration of Lawsuit by Claimants Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): What we have in Manitoba is a Premier who is known for saying one thing and then doing something else. Before the last election, he said that he would not raise taxes on Manitobans; after the election, a record tax increase, Mr. Speaker. Before the last election, he talked about strengthening election laws; after the election, we found out that senior members of his Cabinet had actually broken those election laws. But, perhaps, Mr.

Speaker, most concerning of all is that this is a Premier who said something to flood victims: He said that they could expect quick and complete compensation. H e said to them, we're all in it together. Mr. Speaker, can he tell us, if he promised those things, why did 400 flood victims go to a meeting last night contemplating suing his government? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Once again, the member repeats the same aspersions in his

preamble to his question. The question is: What is being done for people that were victimized by the flood on Lake Manitoba? I can inform the House today that the payments now made available to al l the flood victims in Manitoba are $880 million. This is a largest payout that has ever been done in the history of the province of Manitoba. It provides a relatively rapid response to a tragic set of events on Lake Manitoba, and more work is yet to be done. We've hired additional appraisers. We've hired additional staff to do the work of processing the specific claims that people are putting forward.

And if there is a case for somebody who's not satisfied with the compensation payment that they've received, they have the right to appeal it to an independent commissioner. The person is named Mr. Ron Bell. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr. Premier –or Mr. Speaker, the Premier is trying to convince Manitobans and these flood victims that everything's okay. He's almost taking the words from the member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff): things could be much worse. Well, I don't think they could be much worse. My experience, Mr.

Speaker, is that 400 people don't go to a high school on a warm June night to talk about suing the government if things are going so well. That's not what people do. Mr. Speaker, those in attendance at that meeting said that this government was dragging its foot on compensation. One individual said that he lost his entire property and not o nly was he not getting compensation, he had not even been contacted yet. Mr. Speaker, when the Premier says that we're all in this together, doesn't he really mean, we're all in it together until the election is over, and then those flood victims are on their own? Mr.

Selinger: Mr. Speaker, it's unfortunate the member from Steinbach takes such a cynical tone to a process that has put hundreds of Manitobans in an extremely difficult position. And unlike any other government in the history of the province, we put forward, Mr. Speaker, for the first time ever, a compensation program for cottagers. We put forward unique programs not funded by any other level of government for people with respect to forage loss. We put forward unique programs not funded by any level of government, nor supported, even, by the members of the opposition,

2236 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 for Greenfeed Assistance Program. We put forward a program for the spring blizzard livestock mortalities issue. Mr. Speaker, there have been programs put in place unlike never seen before in the province of Manitoba. * (13:40) Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, the Premier wants us to believe that everybody's happy with the programs that are in place, and yet 400 people go to a high school on a warm summer night to sue the government. He's simply ignoring the facts. You know, I'll give him credit for something. When the Premier wants to move quickly, he can move quickly.

When he wanted to find a soft landing for one of his former MLAs, he managed to make them the 50th–eighth MLA, Mr. Speaker. When he wanted to have a political stunt in the Legislature, he quickly got organized with his Minister of Immigration and had a big stunt here; that blew up, but he moved quickly. So he can move quickly when it involves his political friends or his political agenda. The question is whether or not he could actually move quickly in keeping his promise, a promise he made to Manitobans affected by the flood before the election when he said, we're all in this together.

Or does he only move quickly t o help his political friends? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, not only did we move quickly to put programs in place to support the people impacted by the spring flood, but we brought in programs never seen before in the province of Manitoba. And we have never had a declaration by the members opposite whether they support those programs and whether they think those programs should be covered under the disaster financial assistance program which is normally contributed to by the federal government. So the membe rs led by the member for Steinbach are really trying to have it both ways, Mr.

Speaker. They want to pretend that they're on the side of flood victims, but they do not stand clearly for which programs they support. They do not make clear to this Legislatur e whether other levels of government should support those programs. On this side of the House, we roll out the programs. We put our money on the table and then we wait for the members opposite to clarify whether they even support that– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Bill 217 Government Support Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Obviously, these programs aren't working.

Otherwise, these 400 people would not have turned out for the meeting they did last night, Mr. Speaker. This morning we debated my private member's bill, 217, The Portage Diversion Compensation Act. The purpose of this important bill was to compensate Manitobans who were so badly flooded by the operations of the Portage Diversion last year. During the debate, the member from Interlake, who repr esents many of the flood victims around Lake Manitoba, had the audacity –had the audacity – to say, the private bill disgusts me and I will vote against it. Mr.

Speaker, does the First Minister share the 'ideaters' from the member from Interlake, or is he going to stand up for all Manitobans? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, what I saw was the member from Interlake working –what I saw was the member from the Interlake working seven days a week to aid the flood victims . I know the member doesn't want to face the facts, but the member from the Interlake– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: I'm having a great deal of difficulty hearing the response to the question that was posed by the honourable member for Interlake.

The honourable First Minister has the floor to respond to the question. Mr. Selinger: Not only did I see the member from the Interlake out there helping people in his area, but he took a concern for all the people around Lake Manitoba, regardless of what constituency they're in, just like this government who brought in programs never seen before in the province of Manitoba. And instead of waiting for other levels of government to decide whether they were going to fund them, we moved forward, Mr. Speaker, with funding in anticipation that the right thing would be done by other levels of government.

Even the members of the opposition have not, to this day, indicated whether they support those

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2237 programs and whether they should be funded by other levels of government. That's cynicism, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Eichler: That was why we brought the bill forward this morning to debate it, Mr. Speaker. In fact, Mr. Speaker, what's truly 'disgussion' is the member –disgusting is the member from Interlake's disregard for v ictims of the man -made flood on Lake Manitoba. After all, this is the same member who had the First Minister stand up and apologize, saying, the situation could have been worse.

By passing Bill 217, they would ensure that those peoples whose lives and liv elihoods are put on hold by the mismanagement of this government has to be accounted for. I ask the minister again: Will he stand up for all Manitobans, pass Bill 217 or bring in something comparable? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, it's very unfortunate that the member has to decide to attack a member that worked so hard to help the people on Lake Manitoba. It shows the level of debate that he wants to go on this tragedy.

The reality is, if the member is serious about his bill, he will indicate in the House in his next question whether he supports the programs for which the money has already flowed in Manitoba. Does he support the $880 million that has flowed out, and does he believe that other levels of government should support those programs? Or is he going to hide behind a bill for which he does not identify who should pay for it? Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, very clearly, I stand up for all the flood victims of Manitoba that deserve compensation, not rhetoric. Those impacted by a loss lost part of themselves.

These flood victims deserve fair compensation in a timely manner. Those people suffered incredible losses, both financially and emotionally, to help protect all Manitobans. We need to get to the plate. Some of them are so frustrated that they're talking about suing the government. Nobody wins in a lawsuit, Mr. Speaker. We all know that. Let's do the right thing. Let's bring in compensation. Let's look at what we've got to do to right this wrong. Let's do it today, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, it's interesting the member brings in a bill for compensation when $880 million has flowed and he has not even–neither he nor any member of his caucus has indicated whether he supports the programs 100 per cent by the–funded by the people of Mani toba. That is hypocrisy. It's very unfortunate. If the member's serious, let him stand up and say if he supports the programs we have already funded. Let him say whether there should be other levels of government that will support those programs. If he's serious about compensation, Mr.

Speaker, ask whether those programs should be covered under the disaster financial assistance program. That's where the rubber hits the road. Flooding Financial Compensation Consideration of Lawsuit by Claimants Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, it would appear this NDP government has managed to antagonize yet another group of citizens they promised to help. Hundreds of flood victims around Lake Manitoba met last night to consider taking very serious step of suing this NDP government over its handling of the flood.

As Dennis Turek of the Twin Lakes Beach flood action committee told CJOB today, people are frustrated. They're disappointed in their settlements they received, and they're simply had enough. Mr. S peaker, can the minister responsible explain why it has so badly failed Lake Manitoba flood victims when they believe they now have no choice but to sue their own government? Mr. Speaker: There appears to be members of the Assembly here today that want to have some private conversations.

Might I suggest that they have a loge to my left and a loge to my right and perhaps outside the Chamber if they wish to have those conversations. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures ): I certainly appreciate, Mr. Speaker, any member of this House speaking out in terms of floods. I'm disappointed that members opposite seem to want to turn it into a debate. Mr. Speaker, the member asked a question in terms of lawsuits. I don't know if he's referring to the people of the Grande Pointe area, who after the 1997 flood sued the government of the day, the Filmon government.

2238 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 I can tell you one thing, Mr. Speaker. One thing you never heard from our Premier (Mr. Selinger) or any member of this gove rnment was any blame for anybody living in a flood plain, unlike happened in 1997. So if the members want to debate these kind of issues in a political context, we can do that, but our focus is on the thousands of Manitobans who've been impacted. And thus far, we have invested $880 million, $700 million of which has gone directly to flood victims. That's the record. Mr. Wishart: Mr.

Speaker, Lake Manitoba flood victims are extremely frustrated by this man -made flood. They are frustrated by the level of bureaucracy it takes to make claims, frustrated by the turnover in staff processing the claims, frustrated by the delays in getting adjustered, and frustrated by the slow payments. They are frustrated by the lack of clear direction, the lack of leadership demonstrated by this NDP government in handling this flood. Mr. Speaker, I ask this government again: Why has it driven Lake Manitoba flood victims to the point where they believe a lawsuit is the only alternative? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I'm not sure what the member opposite is talking about in terms of a turnover staff. I visited the staff, the MASC staff in Portage. They've had exactly one person quit. They have people that drive in regularly from as far away as Brandon because they are committed to what we're committed to, which is getting assistance to the people that need it.

And I want to stress that 65 per cent of the applicants under all programs have received at least some form of assessment. * (13:50) I'd like to remind the member –and he should know this, coming from his area –that we're still not even below flood level in some areas of the province. But notwithstanding that, Mr. Speaker, in 141 municipalities right now we're into cleanup as well. So we're working 24 -7, just like we d id in the flood, on the recovery stage. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, I really don't know where he gets his information. I actually live in that constituency.

I know most of those staff on a personal basis, and I do know the staff turnover has been horrendous there because they're deeply frustrated with the lack of direction they've been getting from this government. I'm very familiar with this lever of frustration, having experienced the Lake Manitoba flood victims living in my constituency. It's been a life -changing event for many of them. They've seen their homes, their cottages, and their farms badly damaged by this man-made flood.

This artificial flood has exacted a heavy financial and emotional toll on flood victims for which it will take many, many years to recover. This government repeatedly promised that the paperwork would flow seamlessly, the aid would flow very quickly, and the recovery process would go smoothly. These promises have not been kept. In fact, there's a very good comparison with the province of Québec, who had a flood about the same time and had their issues dealt with in eight weeks. Mr. Speaker, will the minister responsible concede the flood victims' lawsuit is a sign this government has failed? Mr. Ashton: Mr.

Speaker, you know, the member, clearly, is not looking at this fact. There was flooding in Alberta. There was flooding in Saskatchewan. There was devastating flooding just across the border in terms of Minot, North Dakota. He may want to feed some sense, Mr. Speaker, that somehow this just happened, but it didn't. It was a major national event and that natural disaster impacted 141 municipalities. Many of those have been into cleanup for months. Many of them had payout through the DFA program. The flood around Lake Manitoba, Lake St.

Martin and in around a couple of the other areas of the province has been historic. That will take longer. But for him to make that statement, I think, is just a disservice to the many people, not just on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, but our staff, the municipalities that are working 24-7 on the recovery. And, yes, it's going to take time, but we will get Manitobans back to normal. That's our goal. Lord Selkirk School Division Bullying Incident Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans were troubled to learn this week that on a recent school canoe trip, two grade 8 students were tricked into eating moose pellets by adults in charge, while teachers, the principal, and other students looked on and laughed.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2239 It's alarmin g that an adult supervisor would show such a lack of judgment and not recognize that this was not just a harmless prank. It is more alarming still that teachers and the principal reportedly witnessed this and did not intervene. Teachers are required to kno w their school's code of conduct. They are required to know about the government's Safe Schools Charter. Will the minister tell this House what went so terribly wrong? Hon.

Nancy Allan (Minister of Education): I can guarantee the member opposite that offi cials in my department have spoken with the school division and that there has been an investigation into the matter and that disciplinary action has been taken. Mr. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, the students have a right to feel safe and secure when they are at school or participating in school events, and yet here we have all the elements of a classic bullying case. We have the bully, we have enabling bystanders, we have a victim, an d we have suggestions afterward to not report the incident. Mr.

Speaker, this very week the Minister of Education spoke in this Chamber on an antibullying resolution, and she talked about the Safe Schools Charter that requires schools to have codes of conduct stating that bullying is unacceptable and holding bystanders accountable to intervene and stop bullying. Something is clearly wrong in our schools when teachers aren't getting the basic message that this kind of thing is wrong and that they have a duty not to stand idly by. Can the minister tell this House why her Safe Schools Charter is failing to get the message across? Ms. Allan : Well, obviously, Mr.

Speaker, this is a very unfortunate incident –very unfortunate –and we would certainly hope that thi s kind of thing would never happen again. The school division has dealt with this at the local level. The appropriate intervention has occurred. The investigation has been undertaken. There has been disciplinary action. The volunteer that was involved in the incident will not be allowed to volunteer in the school again. And we certainly hope that no other incidents like this would ever occur again in any school division in the province of Manitoba. Mr. Friesen: Mr.

Speaker, t his government's new Bill 28, r eporting bullying and other harm, sets out clear expectations for all persons to report bullying incidents in schools, and earlier this week in the Chamber this minister talked about it.

She said: We believe that we had to make it very clear that there was a responsibility for people in our school system, regardless of whether they were teachers, perhaps they were volunteers, parents working in our public education system that would see an incident, not just in the school but maybe on the playground or on a field trip where they would be helping to supervise, and if they saw that kind of incident there needed to be a very clear expectation that they would report the incident and that the incident would be reported to the principal so there could be follow -up. Well, that did not happen.

Will the minister admit that the real issue here is not this one incident, but rather the extent to which this incident shows this government has failed to get across clear expectations about acceptable conduct in schools? Ms. Allan: We're very confident that the legislation that we have in regards to 'reporteeing' –reporting bullying is effective in our school division. When the incident occurred, it was reported and actions were taken.

And I just want to remind members opposite –I just want to remind members opposite –that in regards to our public education system, when they had the opportunity to do report cards, they backed away from it. When they had the opportunity to do anything in regards to public education, they've bee n nowhere. If they would like to come up with a new idea about public education, my door is always open. We're here, we're waiting, but I think we're going to wait a long time for a new idea from members opposite on our public education other than cuts, increased taxes and staff being laid off.

Emergency Rooms Patients Leaving Before Examination Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, over 12 years ago, the NDP promised to end hallway medicine in six months with $15 million. They were going to be t he saviours and fix wait times in the ERs. Today, what do we see? Twenty -two thousand patients left the ERs without being seen in 2011 because they were too frustrated with the long waits to see a doctor. That's 5,000 more patients left than did in 2004 when the ERs, at that time, were considered to be in crisis. You can't have patients in

2240 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 hallways if they can't even get in through the front door in the first place. So I would ask this Minister of Health to please explain: Why have these numbers been all owed to explode under her watch? Hon. T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): We know that all Manitobans want to have as rapid access as is possible to emergency care when they go to an emergency room. We believe this to be true, which is why we've been investing in increasing the number of doctors we have on the front line. And, Mr.

Speaker, I'm happy to report that today Manitoba has a net increase of 500 more doctors than we did in 1999 when 28 people routinely lined the hallways under the Tory watch. Further, we also know that we need to work on efficiencies in our emergency rooms, which is why we have renovated every emergency room in the city of Winnipeg and the Grace Hospital is on the way. We're working on streamlining processes. We know that people that are in emergency situations want to get care as swiftly as possible. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, with that answer the Minister of Health obviously does not understand this issue.

I have an interesting FIPPA that shows that the Grace Hospital ER ha d 13 per cent of their patients leave without being seen, and that was the worst rate of all Winnipeg hospitals. Health Sciences Centre had 10.7 per cent leave without being seen, and St. Boniface had 8.8 per cent leave without being seen. These are very , very serious numbers, and I'd like to ask the Minister of Health why she hasn't done something to fix these long waits in ERs, because by ignoring this problem she has put patients at risk. Ms.

Oswald: The reason the member opposite has this information is because we now track what is happening with people and we track patients who are leaving without being seen. Furthermore, patients that leave an emergency room without being seen are followed up by a nurse in the hospital, a nurse at Health Links to e nsure that there are no medical issues that require further follow-up, Mr. Speaker. * (14:00) We want to ensure that those individuals that are going to an emergency room are indeed there in an emergency situation.

We want to have our families in Manitoba to have alternative places to go to seek medical care in non -emergency situations, like access centres and, indeed, our new QuickCare clinics, three of which have already opened. We want to take pressure off emergency rooms by increasing choices, Mr. Spe aker, and that’s what we're doing. Triage Wait Times Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, 22,000 have left without being seen because of the mess she has left the ERs in. She does not seem to understand that.

And I have another interesting FIPPA, for the very first time showing the length of time it takes patients to be triaged in Winnipeg ERs. Concordia and Grace hospitals take twice as long to triage patients than most other hospitals. But the Health Scienc es Centre adult ER, our major trauma centre, takes 17 minutes to just triage a patient, and that's almost three times longer than the other ERs. Brian Sinclair comes to mind when I think of that number.

So I want to ask this Minister of Health to tell Manitobans why patient safety is being put at risk because it–of the length of time it takes to be triaged in our hospitals in Winnipeg in our ERs. Why would she allowed this to get so bad? Ms. Oswald: As I said to the member already, we have endeavoured to provide alternate options for individuals who are not in emergency situations but need emergency care, which is why we've opened access centres, why we've opened our QuickCare clinics, Mr.

Speaker, and why we have committed that all Manitobans who want one shall have a family doctor and we've committed an aggressive target of 2015. I would note, Mr. Speaker, that, indeed, at Health Sciences Centre we are investing $5.2 million in an ongoing renovation to assist with processes, to assist in allowing the med ical professionals to have more space to deal with what is admittedly a very busy ER. But, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you this: It is not the policy of this government as it was of the Tories to routinely allow, day after day, 28 people in the hallways across the system.

Today, that count is zero or one.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2241 Assistant Deputy Minister Distribution of Email Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, yesterday after the minister was forced to release freedom of information documents to us, we found our suspicions w ere confirmed. There were indeed many emails flying among at least seven Immigration Department staff on April 18th, the day before the minister's political rally. The email strings have been –that have been provided start at 12:50 p.m. on April 18th, with an attached invitation to attend the Legislature with a copy of the resolution.

A footnote says: letter revised, needs final approval before sending out. Mr. Speaker, who had the final approval for the letter and the resolution before Ben Rempel sent it out? Hon. Stan Struthers (Acting Minister of Immigration and Multiculturalism ): I really am very glad that the member for Morris got the information that she was asking for. I'm very glad because maybe when she reads through it and the more information she can have, the more she will begin to understand how important it is for us to stand up–on the basis of our provincial economy alone–Mr.

Speaker, how important for us to stand up and say to the federal government that we want to work in partnership with them, not watch as the federal government dumps on the province its own ideology in terms of dealing with immigration in the province of Manitoba. So, you know, the more information they can have across the way, the more confident I am that they will finally come to understand that it's time to stand up for Manitoba. Minister of Immigration Request for Appearance at Standing Committee Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Well, what's important, Mr.

Speaker, is this –that this government stop politicizing the civil service. The minister in Estimates denied that she knew anything about any email, effectively saying her ADM, Ben Rempel, acted on his own. Mr. Rempel sent an email directive to staff in the Department of Immigration and asked them to pass it on to their respective distribution lists. And several did, and although the distribution list has not been provided, it appears extensive from the amount of blank space that was left. Mr. Speaker, we've asked the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) to call this minister before a committee of this House to determine the extent of her politicization of the civil service. Why is he protecting that minister? Does he condone the politicization of the civil service? Hon. Stan Struthers (Acting Minister of Immigration and Multicultural ism): Mr. Speaker, the minister has answered questions in Estimates. The minister I've seen answering questions here in the House.

I want to say I'm very pleased that the member has some information now that she can use to maybe convince her colleagues across the way there to understand the importance of this issue to our provincial economy. Maybe she can stand up with us and with the western premiers who have also said that our immigration system must be managed jointly by the federal and provincial and t erritorial governments.

I think we all have to come to the realization that this is a very important issue for our province and that sometimes it calls for members opposite to stand up and take on their friends in Ottawa rather than bailing out– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mrs. Taillieu: Why won't the Minister of Immigration (Ms. Melnick) stand up today and answer questions? The documents reveal that another of the bureaucrats involved in doing the NDP's political work was, in fact, a former NDP political staffer. Colin Lemoine was a member of the NDP's Cabinet communication office.

Now he is a bureaucrat doing political work for the NDP. The documents reveal that an NDP political staffer, Rachel Morgan, from the Premier's own Cabinet communications office was getting involved in this issue before the debate on the resolution even happened. This shows the intent of the NDP motion– all politics, period. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier (Mr. Selinger) continue to support the politicization of the civil service by his Minister of Immigration by sitting by and doing nothing? Or will he act and demand she be–appear before a public com mittee of this Legislature?

Does he support democracy or does he support the politicization of the civil service? Mr. Struthers : What is absolutely clear, Mr. Speaker, is that the civil servants within the province

2242 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 of Manitoba, our public servants, worked very hard for a long time to make –and to work with us and along with federal civil servants and federal decision makers to turn this program into the No. 1 Provincial Nominee Program in the country. Other provinces approached the federal government so that they could emulate the work that was being done in this province by this government and by the–by civil servants.

Instead of running down the public service, as members often are, I think we should stand up together and fight for this program, fight on the behalf of our Manitoba economy, and make sure your friends in Ottawa know the damage that they're doing to our economy. Jordan's Principle Implementation Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): For over six years I've championed the implementation in Manitoba of Jordan's Principle, that the child's needs come first and jurisdictional battles later.

The principle is named for Jordan River Anderson from Norway House Cree Nation, who suffered for years in hospital and away from home while this government bickered with the federal government over who would pay for items like a shower head. He died never having a chance to go home. Now, after Liberals put on a lot of pressure in a three-year campaign, the NDP government finally signed an MOU with the federal government in 2008. And yet the working group has sat for four years with no delivery of a public policy, nor properly involving First Nations in the

interpretation of Jordan's Principle. I ask the Premier why he's been so ineffective in implementing Jordan's Principle, helping kids in crisis in Manitoba. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): And I thank the member from River Heights for t he question. Our officials do work in the spirit of Jordan's Principle. He is correct: There are still ongoing meetings with the federal government to clarify the joint roles of the two jurisdictions with respect to people impacted in Manitoba.

But where a case arises and a need needs to be fulfilled, our officials will act in the spirit of Jordan's Principle and then work with the federal government on any necessary recoveries. Mr. Gerrard: The NDP's plan to implement on a case-by-case approach in regard to these children has clearly been shown to be another way of governments to pass the buck and stall decision making. The problems in Manitoba continue, as we see from the human rights complaint filed by Harriet Sumner-Pruden, who isn't getting prompt a nd fair treatment in respect to her nine- year-old disabled son, Dewey.

Harriet pleads that governing bodies shouldn't deprive on -reserve First Nation children with disabilities of equal rights and opportunities in their policies and programs. * (14:10) I ask the Premier, who says he supports Jordan's Principle: Will his government be supporting the Pruden-Sumners' human rights complaint, which has been brought forward to the Manitoba Human Rights Commission and to the Canadian Human Rights Commission? Mr. Selinger: Well, Mr. Speaker, just to put some information on the record from Sheila Fraser, the former auditor general of the government of Canada.

She said in –on February 12th, 2009, with respect to Jordan's Principle and its application in Manitoba, she said: We've been very actively involved with Health Canada and the provinces, particularly Manitoba where this has come up, and we have active case management. Kids are being dealt with and the principle's being applied. There's still work with the fede ral government to discuss the financial side of it, but even the auditor general of Canada has affirmed, as early as 2009, that in Manitoba, we do act in the spirit of Jordan's Principle. So I want the member to know that.

We don't put kids at risk becau se the federal government hasn't agreed to pay part of the cost. We act in the spirit of Jordan's Principle. We still look for a solid agreement with the federal government. The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is working with us on case conferencing. We're doing things on the ground to protect children. We expect the federal government will come forward and be supportive, just like we're going to do on the flood. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, now, in 2012, three years after 2009, an

article by Dr. Noni MacDonald in the Canadian Medical Association Journal has exposed the empty words of the Premier when it comes to Jordan's Principle. The Canadian Paediatric Society has put the NDP government at no better than fair in implementing Jordan's Principle. And Dr. MacDonald has said that the Manitoba

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2243 government is merely playing lip service to a politically correct idea. Many see the Premier's lack of action as shameful, since Manitoba is the homeland of Jordan Anderson. Dr. MacDonald says the Manitoba government does not have a strong and effective implementation plan, and I ask the Premier: When will he put in place a cohesive and effective implementation plan for Jordan's Principle that's reflective of what First Nation children and families are pleading for? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, I actually do appreciate the question because it raises important issues of how we provide services to First Nations families and children. In the case of dialysis, we've gone ahead and built dialysis treatment centres in First Nations communities without waiting for the federal government to come forward. In the case of prenatal benefits for young pregnant mothers, we provide benefits without waiting for the federal government to participate in that. We do that with respect to child welfare cases and other health-related matters. We, on the ground, operate in the spirit of Jordan's Principle.

We continue to work with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, which have agreed to a case conferencing approach. We continue to work with the federal government to see their participation and clear rules on how finances are arranged to cover the cost of cases where services are provided through the provincial auspice and agencies related to the Province. But we do act in the spirit in Jordan's Principle. It is important that we get an agreement. It would help not only Manitoba, but First Nations children all across the country. Commercial Electric Bus Pilot Initiative Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): My fan club is here again today. Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. It's quite clear that the opposition, once again, is missing not just some but all of the good news that exists in this province. It's a gorgeous day outside. When they leave, I'm sure they're going to be looking for the blizzard that they've been casting. The recent announcement that our government made, indeed, by our hard- working Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines, is setting a tone for an incredible technological and economic breakthrough in the world of green transportation.

I'm going to give the members opposite a chance to hea r this good story one more time. See if it brightens their mood a little. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines ): Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Manitoba Hydro, Red River Community College, and New Flyer Industries for unveiling a first in North America, that is, a commercial full-scale electric bus, zero emissions, powered by clean hydro. It's a credit to innovation and a credit to the potential market for New Flyer, which already has 40 per cent of the hybrid market in North America.

And I'd also like to thank the former vice - president of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mr. Fukue, who had the vision to select Manitoba as the place in the world to launch this project and to work co-operatively to have a first full -scale commercial electric bus in North America. That's vision, Mr. Speaker. That's the future, and that's where we want to go. And I wish members opposite would come on board. Provincial Sales Tax Government Support for Proposed Increase Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : The NDP broke their no-tax-increase election promise, and the union bosses that control the NDP are pushing them to do it again. It's no wonder small business confidence in this promise –in this province is plummeting. The Can adian Federation of Independent Business Business Barometer shows that since the re-election of the NDP, small business confidence declined by almost 10 per cent. The NDP raised taxes by $184 million in the last budget on small business necessities like ga soline and property insurance.

The NDP hiked fees by $114 million for basic business services like land titles documents. Obviously, the Minister of Entrepreneurship does not think small business is taxed enough. Why is he planning to now increase the PST on top of all of this? Hon. Peter Bjornson (Minister of Entrepreneur - ship, Training and Trade ): Mr. Speaker, 1999 small business tax, 9 per cent; 2012 small business tax, zero. Mr. Speaker, 1999 corporate tax, over 17 per cent; 2012, 12 per cent.

2244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 Mr. Spe aker, there are over 106,000 businesses in Manitoba, and I have travelled to a number of them to see first -hand what they're doing, what they're manufacturing, what their opportunities are, what their challenges are, but I have an incredible amount of confidence in what they are doing here in Manitoba, an incredible amount of respect for what they're doing here in Manitoba. And, Mr. Speaker, they talk to us about how our economy has been booming and how they're looking to grow and expand here in the province of Manitoba.

Maybe the member opposite should look at the glass being more than half full, because he's certainly on the half empty side, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today gold medalists with the Canadian national women's hockey team Bailey Bram, Jocelyne Larocque. On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Russell Anderson Mr.

Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I rise today to honour Russell Anderson, a recipient of the annual Vision in Action Award of Distinction at Toronto- Dominion Bank for 2012. The Vision in Action Award of Distinction is an awa rd that celebrates the best of the best globally within the TD Bank Group. It is the highest level of employee achievement and it is awarded to only one in a thousand TD Bank employees annually. Mr. Anderson was chosen for his branch's performance and hi s remarkable leadership and community service during the flood of 2011 in Brandon. While Mr.

Anderson volunteered his time and energy to the sandbagging efforts to protect the city of Brandon from the rising Assiniboine, he also opened his home to a displaced family of newcomers who had lost their home and belongings to the flood. He treated the family as guests in his home for as long as they needed to begin rebuilding their lives and finding more suitable accommodation. Mr. Anderson's effort in the fl ood of 2011 is but one story amongst many of the incredible acts of kindness and generosity that residents in flood- affected areas were offering to each other and their communities every day.

We are indebted to those efforts and the many volunteers like Mr . Anderson who demonstrated incredible leadership in a time of crisis. The leadership qualities Mr. Anderson brings to the table have also given his branch at TD top-quartile performance for 2011 and a sterling reputation in the city of Brandon. Mr. Ander son will attend a four-day event in New York City for award presentations later this month. I'd like to thank him and all of all –all of our volunteers during the flood of 2011 and wish them success in their future endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (14:20) Bailey Bram and Jocelyne Larocque Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Local Government): I'm honoured and pleased to acknowledge today the accomplishments of two exceptionally talented Ste. Anne women: Bailey Bram and Jocelyne Larocque. On April 15th, they and the rest of their Team Canada teammates won the world women's hockey championship held in Burlington, Vermont. Team Canada defeated their main rivals, the United States, 5 to 4 in a thrilling overtime finish. The victory came for Team Canada despite a bruising 9 to 2 loss to the Americans in the opening game of the tournament earlier that week.

Bailey and Jocelyne both played important roles for Team Canada throughout the tournament. These team meets–teammates share a deep connection that goes back to their days as toddlers growing up together in Ste. Anne, Manitoba. Bailey is now a forward and plays US Division 1 college hockey with Mercyhurst University. She has twice been named to the top 10 female US college hockey players and was a rookie on Team Canada this year. Jocelyne is a solid defensive player and former NCAA champion while at the University of Minnesota Duluth.

She was called upon often to match up against the top US players in the shutdown role along the blue line. The victory for Team Canada was especially sweet as they turned the tables on their main rivals after last year's loss to the Americans, doing so on the opponents home soil.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2245 Mr. Speaker, I am proud to commend Bailey and Jocelyne as they are such inspirational female athletes who play at a very high level in one of our national sports. I wish them well in their future endeavours as they continue with hockey and look towards fut ure league world champions, as well as the 2014 Winter Olympics. Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate Bailey and Jocelyne and all members of Team Canada for a 2012 World Hockey Championship, and I want all members to please join me in thanking them very, very much. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Joan Wheeler Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Midland): It is my pleasure to rise today to recognize the achievements of Mrs. Joan Wheeler of Crystal City, who was recently bestowed the Lieutenant -Governor's Award for Historical Preservation and Promotion for her work with the Star Mound Historical Society, which she helped form with her sister in 1966. Mrs. Wheeler and her sister are former pupils of the one-room Star Mound school which–that is now part of the Manitoba Municipal Heritage Site.

Star Mound, a large hill surrounded by the flat prairie land in the Pilot Mound area, was also a spot of great significance to the mound builder natives. When Joan receives visitors, she often points out the shape of a beaver mound–mounded–up on top of the hill where the natives buried their dead, which is now blanketed by crocuses. The annual July 1st wiener roast and fireworks display at the school is attended by hundreds of children and adults.

If Joan isn't pouring coffee, cutting birthday cake or helping to place marshmallows on sticks for youngsters to roast, she'd be inside the old school answering questions and pointing out the history of objects on display. Countless school field trips and tourist groups have visited Star Mound where Joan has pointed out the buffalo rubbing stone, the beaver -shaped mound and many interesting artifacts in the school. Many of the original arrow heads, school books, maps and more have been procured by Joan for the Star Mound museum.

The school is quite authentic looking with the original school desks, a picture of King George, roll - down maps, blackboards and the old stove where woollen mitts would have been dried. Joan uses this backdrop to ignite the imaginations of the children and tourists to envision what it would have been like to attend this one-room school decades ago. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Joan Wheeler for receiving the Lieutenant -Governor's Award for Historical Preservation and Promotion and for more than 45 years of dedication to promoting our pioneer heritage and keeping Star Mound's history alive.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cuthbert Grant Day Ms. Sharon Blady (Kirk field Park): Manitoba is a diverse province, a place where various ethnic and linguistic groups have come together to build a positive future. This notion of Manitoba is perhaps summarized best by our Métis heritage, a culture that has continued to thrive for centuries. The Métis have had many great leaders, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to highlight the legacy of one of them. Cuthbert Grant was a revered Métis leader who was born in 1793. Considered a founding father of St. François Xavier, Grant led the Métis in 1816 at the Battle of Seven Oaks.

Grant was so respected that he was later named a warden of the plains by the Hudson's Bay Company after its merger with the North West Company. Grant was also a pioneer in the use of water mills in the territory . He built one of the first water mills on the banks of the Assiniboine River, which today is recreated as Grant's Old Mill near Grace Hospital and run by the St. James-Assiniboia Pioneer Association. Grant served, as well, as sheriff and chief magistrate in the district of Assiniboia and was a member of the council of Assiniboia.

This summer Winnipeggers will pay tribute to his legacy by celebrating Cuthbert Grant Day at Grant's Old Mill on July 14th. This will be an extra special occasion as Lord Strath spey, the chief of the Grant clan, will be attending from Scotland. Descendants of Cuthbert Grant will also be attending from across Canada, and Strathspey will officially declare them a new sept of the clan. A major fundraising dinner was held for the celebration in April, which I was happy to attend. And the importance of Cuthbert Grant to Assiniboia and to the future of the province of Manitoba cannot be understated.

2246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 I would like to especially highlight the dedicated work undertaken by celebration organizer, Sandra Horyski, and her family, who are descendants of Grant. Her son often plays the role of Grant at the mill. I hope that all members will join me in celebrating this great Métis leader and his contributions to our province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Royal Canadian Air Force Band Ms. Deanne Crothers (St. James): Mr.

Speaker, members of the Royal Canadian Air Force Band are brave and selfless men and women, who risk their lives to boost morale for troops at home, internationally and in war zones. In May, they took on a different type of challenge, to raise funds for a charity that's close to their hearts. They competed in Global TV's show choir competition, Canada Sings . I'm proud to say that they won and earned a $25,000 donation for Support Our Troops, a charity that supports current and former Canadian Forces p ersonnel and their families.

Thirteen members of the locally based Royal Canadian Air Force Band competed in Canada Sings under the name Super Sonic. Although every member is a professional musician, most of the team had never sung or danced in public bef ore. Team captain, Sergeant David Grenon, noticed–noted that it took guts for the musicians to step out from behind their music stands to perform onstage. They worked hard and impressed the show's judges, Laurieann Gibson, Rob Van Winkle and Jann Arden. Super Sonic members were thrilled to be awarded the reality show's top prize for Support Our Troops.

This charity encourages ill and injured Canadian Forces personnel to maintain a healthy, active lifestyle and supports them in increasing their independence, developing new skills and achieving their goals. Many soldiers and their families live in St. James, and it is important to my constituents and all Manitobans that these brave men and women receive the supports they need. I would like to congratulate Super Sonic on their win, and thank them for drawing attention to such an important cause. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on House business. Could you please canvass the House to see if there's leave to allow for two sections of the Committee of Supply to meet concurrently with the House this afternoon, in order for the House to consider second reading of bills? Is there leave such that the Department of Health be considered in room 254 and the Department of Children and Youth Opportunities be considered in room 255?

Further, is there also leave for the Estimates from the Chamber for Innovation, Energy and Mines and Sport to be moved into committee room 255 following Children and Youth Opportunities and Immigration and Multiculturalism? Last, is there leave to waive the quorum requirements in any recorded votes arising in the two sections of Committee of Supply sitting in rooms 254 and 255? Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave of the House to allow for two sections of the Committee of Supply to meet concurrently with the House this afternoon in order to consider –in order for the House to consider second reading of bills? [Agreed] Further, is there leave such that the Department of Health be considered in room 254 and the Department of Children and Youth Opportunities be considered in room 255? [Agreed] Further, is there also leave for the Estimates from the Chamber for Innovation, Energy and Mines and Sport to be moved into committee room 255 following Children and Youth Opportunities and Immigration and Multiculturalism?

An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Honourable member for Morris? Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think that Immigration and Multiculturalism and Innovation, Energy and Mines are still open. Would we not close those first? Mr. Speaker: My understanding is –and if I misstated it, please let me correct it, then.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2247 Just to be certain that I've put the correct information on the record, it was to be following the Department of Innovation, Energy and Mines and Sport to follow in the committee room after – following the Children, Youth Opportunities and Immigration and Multicu lturalism, if it has been dealt with. But there is –not necessary need to have those departments dealt with prior to.

That's my understanding. * (14:30) So is there leave of the House for that to occur? [Agreed] And last, is there leave to waive quorum requirements and any recorded votes arising in the two sections of Committee of Supply sitting in rooms 254 and 255? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Ms. Howard: Also on House business, I'm rising to table, for the information of members, an agreement signed by myself, the Opposition House Leader (Mrs. Taillieu) and the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), regarding House proceedings over the coming week. Mr.

Speaker: Information has been to table –tabled– an agreement signed between the honourable Government House Leader and the honourable Official Opposition House Leader and the member for River Heights, regarding the House proceedings over the coming week. Ms. Howard: Also on House business, I'd like to announce that the O pposition Day motion put forward by the member from Morris will be considered on Monday, June 11th. Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that the Opposition Day motion put forward by the honourable member for Morris will be considered next Monday, June the 11th. Ms.

Howard: Would you call for the resumption of debate on bill –on second reading debate on Bill 8 and 24, start second reading debate on Bill 23, followed by resuming second reading debate on Bill 38. Mr. Speaker: We'll be calling bill–to resume adjourned debate on bills 8 and 24, followed by second reading of Bill 23, and then to be followed, resumption of adjourned debate on Bill 38. And the Committee of Supply will be meeting in rooms 254 and 255 simultaneously. DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 8–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Use of Child Safety Seats) Mr.

Speaker: We'll start by calling Bill 8, then, to resume adjourned debate of Bill 8, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Use of Child Safety Seats), standing in name in the honourable member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu). The honour–is there leave for the–to remain –bill to remain standing in the name for the honourable member for Morris? Agreed? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I appreciate the opportunity to stand and put a few comments on the record in regards to Bill 8, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Use of Child Safety Seats), and to indicate that I rise in support of this legislation. We have seen, actually, in t he last number of years, Mr. Speaker, with the encouragement of the public to use booster seats that, indeed, booster seats were effective up until a certain size of a child.

And we also know that sometimes at the age of five, once a child has been allowed to not have to use a booster seat and then be in the position of having to use a safety seatbelt that, indeed, the size of the child could make a difference. So, as we have seen more medical research on this and we've seen more accidents and incidents around this issue, certainly there has been more learning that has occurred over time. And, Mr. Speaker, injuries and death that result from vehicle accidents are devastating and we know that they are largely preventable.

We also know that wearing seatbelts and using booster seats are absolutely vital for the safety of our children, and we, on this hide – side of the House, understand the importance of enforcing safe vehicle practices. Also, families should feel secure in knowing that their children are protected while driving. However, conventional seatbelts will not protect all children in case of an accident. Smaller children are only adequately safe in a booster seat. Mr. Speaker, motor vehicle crashes are a leading cause of death for four - to eight -year-olds. So this legislation will undoubtedly help to save children's

2248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 lives. This legislation will move Manitoba forward in joining other jurisdictions that already have similar legislation. An increased standard for booster seats across the country will help mitigate the effects that vehicle collisions have on children's injuries and death. Mr. Speaker, Manitoba currently has legislation in place to enforce the use of booster seats for children under the age of five, but many children are not big enough at this age to be properly protected by a seat belt.

Experts say that, depending on a child's height and weight, seat belts could actually do more harm than good during an accident for children that are small. Specifically, children are more susceptible to abdominal and spinal cord injuries with the improper use of a seat belt and, therefore, could be seriously injured. A properly used child safety seat can reduce fatalities by 71 per cent and the risk of serious injury by 67 per cent. Height and weight are significant factors in determining the adequacy of a seat belt or child safety seat.

So age has been proven not to be necessarily a good benchmark, as all kids, we know, grow at very different paces. So there is no doubt that we, as elected officials, certainly need to do more to protect kids who face a heightened risk of injury and death during vehicle collisions. And we know that booster seats have been proven to decrease serious injury and fatalities significantly for some kids. So it's important that we follow the lead of other provinces that have imposed the use of booster seats for more kids. So we would note, Mr.

Speaker, that, indeed, what the government has done is look across other jurisdictions to find out what has been happening in other jurisdictions and to find out what would be most appropriate here. And, certainly, what the formula has been that appears to be effective and has been adopted elsewhere is looking at age or height or weight, rather than just picking the age of five years old after which a child can be, you know, allowed from not using a booster seat and only use a seat belt.

However, we have heard of an incident where a child that was too small was allowed to not be in a booster seat but did have a seat belt on, but it did lead to a spinal cord injury. And as this one physician has indicated, that there's really quite nothing more devastating than having to deal with a child that may have had a severed spinal cord because of a situation like that. So we would note that other pr ovinces are moving ahead in this.

And as the criteria now is going to be looking at age or height or weight, and it will be related to either a child being nine years old or four point nine –four feet, nine inches tall or less than 80 pounds, so we think that this will enable child safety in situations and we will support the legislation. We do note, though, and it's interesting to note, that the Liberals have proposed booster seat legislation three separate times in recent years, and I would note that the NDP firmly opposed that legislation.

Now it's interesting that the NDP have flip-flopped on this issue and they have introduced this legislation now on their own because suddenly they've had a change of heart. So, Mr. Speaker, there is one particular comment that I would like to put on the record, and it does come from the member of Wolseley, because it is interesting to see where the NDP were in this position earlier and where they have ended up now.

So the member from Wolseley –and he was referring to the member of the –or the Leader of the Liberal Party when he said it, and I quote: "Why on earth he feels that he needs to bring in a law which some people can't comply with and which isn't necessary in the first place leads me to the obvious conclusion that he didn't have anything else to talk about today, and he just needs to do some grandstanding. I'm not going to be much of a party to that." End quote. So I hope the Minister of Healthy Living (Mr.

Rondeau) has had a good conversation with his colleague from Wolseley and I hope that he's got him on side with this legislation, because it wasn't that long ago that he made those comments. * (14:40) And I would indicate he has also said, and I quote: ". . . the proposal that we have before us today really doesn't bring a whole lot more to the table than what's already necessary." And –end quote. And the member from Wolseley made those comments not that long ago. And I would also note that the member for Kirkfield Park (Ms.

Blady), at the time the Liberals brought this legislation forward, also said, and I quote: But I don't know if we can legislate absolutely everything, and I don't know if using these kind of markers, arbitrary height and weight markers, are really going to work and ultimately be safest for everyone. I think we have to do something that's very holistic. End quote.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2249 And, again, I would hope that the Minister of Healthy Living (Mr. Rondeau) has a conversation also with his colleague from Kirkfield Park so that he can straighten her out in terms of her understanding of this legislation and, hopefully, he's got all of his caucus members on board and he has spent some time educating them on the issue, because their comments really are–their comments were really quite pointed in their remarks when they made them a few years ago. So, trusting that the minister is doing that, we certainly stand in support of this legislation.

It seems to be what the research is showing. It seems to be what physicians are recommending and have found to be most useful for child safety across Canada. So we certainly support the legislation and look forward to it getting to committee. Mr. Speaker: Any further debate on Bill 8? House is ready for the question then? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 8, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Use of Child Safety Seats). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 24–The Energy Savings Act Mr.

Speaker: We'll now proceed with Bill 24, The Energy Savings Act, on adjourned debate, standing in the name of the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), who has 15 minutes remaining. Is there leave for this bill to remain standing in the honourable member for River Heights' name? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Any debate on Bill 24? Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I'm pleased to rise and speak on this bill. I do have several concerns, and we will go through a few of those on how this will all roll out.

I understand it is intended to replace a part of a fund that already exists, but the intent and the delivery of this, we do have some concerns about who will actually dispense the funds and how they will be dispensed and where they would possible go. So, while I understand that the bill does intend to fund this program through our export program from Manitoba Hydro, of course, there's a concern there because Manitoba Hydro has been losing money on their export program, and, in that case, then, I guess the fund–'munds' –funds might come from Manitobans, and that would be how we would possibly fund the program.

There's lots of unknowns there, Mr. Speaker, so, answers that we need to figure out. It refers to renovations a nd training, and I can understand that the fund would want to fund renovations. That is certainly an admirable object that we can look at and how we can improve insulation, improve energy sufficiency and that type of thing; however, there's a bit of a refe rence also here to training. [interjection] Okay. And, you know, the training side is a little ambiguous on who could be trained in this, what they would possibly do, if there's any reporting mechanism, and if we measure this at all.

So, you know, it could be something that I'm quite concerned about: no reporting mechanism and how that would all be done. You have possibly a make-work program that, indeed, we could see no real benefits in energy savings, and the money could come from the fund to go to indi viduals or agencies.

And I'm sure some of these agencies and individuals are all excellent agencies and well meaning, but some of that could go to places that we're not sure about, and, indeed, there could be some abuses there because there is, as I see here, no real reporting mechanism for the effectiveness of that training and where the funds would actually go. You know, it would be nice to see that there could be an annual report or something of that nature that says, you know, what the total support of the fund was that was paid out and how much, you know, what the amount that's presently in the fund.

Other types of things, would be nice to see a report of who got funding, social enterprises or community organizations or any other businesses or structures that did receive some money from this fund. So it would be nice to see a report, perhaps, with the name, the amount received, the program's service, or, possibly, the project of that support that it did receive, so that we can measure and see that thi s is actually having an effect in Manitoba as opposed to just money disappearing.

Because that's the last thing, I would believe, that this government would want to happen–is for money to just go somewhere where it wasn't actually traceable or that there was no real effect. I would believe that we want to be open

2250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 and transparent in this type of thing so that Manitobans can be assured that the money that this program is paid out for is, indeed, having benefits to Manitobans, and it's not just something that we're seeing have no effect, because we all want to see more effective energy resources. We want to see more effective use of those resources, and, indeed, if we are looking to develop, you know, better sources and uses of energy, then that's all a great thing. If we want to put this into–you know, there have in a number of things here.

They talk about more efficient insulation, better insulation, in some programs. We do have some reference here, I think, to low -flow toilets, which I'm not sure why Hydro, necessarily, would be in that environment. Except, maybe, if you have low-flow toilets, you use less water in Manitoba; there's more flowing for the dams. That's a real stretch, Mr. Speaker, but you could possibly go there, I guess. I don't know. You know, you always wonder about those things.

So, you know, the windows might be something that you might want to look at a bit better, because, certainly, replacing windows can be an effective use of reducing your energy footprint. And, as I understand it, that in this program, the only portion of the windows that would be available would be the percentage of energy saved –would be available for financing under it. And, of course, it goes on the meter, and Hydro, in essence, becomes a lender, and that's something that Hydro does have some experience at.

But, you know, those –being a lender is a very complex situation and it, indeed, needs to be treated as a separate company or a division, essentially, to be a lender on real property. There's some amendments here that have to happen to The Real Property Act. If you borrow on this program, or you receive money on this program, it would go–essentially, you'd be on your title. So some concerns there for people. I – obviously, I understand that the program would stay with the title of the building if it's sold, or the property, but, you know, amending things like that are always of concern.

And when Hydro becomes a lender, I guess, where does that fall in the priorities, or the structures, of security? There's always a qu estion on who has first right. Is it the mortgage agency? Is it a bank? Is it a federal institution? Which one has priority in lending here? And you don't want –or the last thing you want to do is get into a court fight if there is a problem with the security and who would take order of precedence on that.

So I don't believe we'd want to see that, and I think there needs to be some consultation with the various lending agencies and authorities to make sure that this legislation would fall somewhere in the federal-provincial jurisdictions for who has the first claim on the property for any of that. And–you know, because those things are all big concerns when you have lending. Does this –indeed, lending –fall into someone's credit? If you have a mortgage, and you go and take out a loan for a car or something of that nature, will this fall on your credit reporting? Should, I would imagine.

You're borrowing, essentially, from Hydro to do some renovations. And, you know, you want to make sure that everything is reported correctly, but when you go to those particular reporting agencies, it has to be clear and concise on what you've borrowed and who you owe it to. So we want to make sure that all those bases are covered in this. But I guess –so those are a lot of some of the concerns that we have, Mr. Speaker. And I'm sure some of my associates will speak to this, as well, but it seems to be the intentions are respectable, but we do have some concerns on how the whole process is going to work out.

And I think that the reporting is a pretty critical part of that; that we want to make sure that this House can look at this program and say it is effective or it is not effective and make changes to it, because I don't see in this particular bill any of that type of reporting in terms of who gets the funding, how it's been paid out, what it's been paid out for and, indeed, were those programs effective, whether they were training or, in fact, renovations to a property. * (14:50) You know, I can understand there'll be privacy restrictions to some of this information, but you want to make sure, I believe, at the end of the day that these programs are effective for Manitobans and that we are not seeing any money wasted, because that would be the last thing that I'm sure our government will want to do, would be to waste any money.

And especially in an environment like Hydro where funds are fairly –[interjection] Well, you know, but, yes, this is a different programs. We want to make sure that it's effective; we want to make sure that, you know, Hydro isn't paying out for something and losing money in this regard, so– because they have to fund the program and the money does have to be paid into it, I would assume is how it's going to work over time, but, you know.

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2251 Other things, like what kind of interest rate are we going to do? Are we going to fix the interest rate to prime plus? Does it depend on the risk? Is this high-risk? Is this low -risk? Just because it's on the meter and you owe it doesn't mean that it's a low-risk type of environment. So it really depends on the individual that is going through the program to get this type of training or type of application for their renovations, and we want to have to take a look at each of t hem individually. Is the structure in place to do that?

Because this is a great deal of work, to assess that the risk is fair. And is Hydro set up to do that work, or who in Hydro would do it? Because it is something, as I said, would need to be almost a separate group or agency with risk assessments would be able to look at that and make sure that this is an –all appropriately done and well done and everything is in place for when and where you want it to happen. And, of course, timeliness, Mr. Speaker: H ow long would it take to apply the program and get a response?

So those things are all very necessary for us to find out before we can determine how this bill should move ahead. And I think, at that point, I'll leave it and we'll see where we can go on this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): And I thank you for the opportunity this afternoon to speak to Bill 24, The Energy Savings Act, and I certainly thank the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) for his comments. He certainly la id out some of the issues that arise in this particular legislation.

And, obviously, we'll be interested when this bill goes to committee, to see what Manitobans have to say about the proposal here, and it's a very interesting piece of legislation. First of all, certainly with most of the government legislation they bring forward, it comes with a nice title, and one of those nice titles that seem that it would be hard for opposition members to vote against those nice titles. And I'm sure that's probably the intent of the legislation they do bring forward, so I certainly want to acknowledge the nice, rosy title again on this particular legislation.

And this particular legislation does –sets out three different issues relative to energy and energy savings. And first of all, the first component of this bill is to set up a–an affordable energy fund, and, Mr. Speaker, if you remember a number of years ago, we did change some legislation and we brought into play The Winter Heating Cost Control Act. And that has implications in this piece of legislation as well.

I know there was quite a bit of debate on that particular legislation when it came forward and, in essence, this particular legislation fills in the gap, in terms of that preliminary legislation that was introduced some time ago. So, certainly, the affordable energy fund speaks to The Winter Heating Cost Control Act. So, in essence, what this legislation does, it sets up an affordable energy fund. The interesting thing, Mr.

Speaker: the money that will be a llocated to this fund comes from Manitoba Hydro, and I think that's something that Manitobans should be aware of, where the money for this particular fund comes from. In fact, the money for this fund comes from sales – export sales, which, of course, are pre dominantly into the United States. What the legislation will be will take a percentage of the revenue from export sales and put it into this fund. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as we all know, markets are– have fluctuated substantially in the United States market, an d actually we're not making near the money on our export sales as we were at one time. So certainly, when you want to look at Manitoba Hydro's bottom line, they're impacted directly by export sales and, in fact, that declining market value in the United States. Now, we know some of our contracts into the United States are on a long term; they're fixed rates. However, on the downside, a lot of those markets that we sell into are on a floating rate as well, and in today's market those rates are certainly down.

You know, when we look at what's happening in terms of shale gas, natural gas, the very low prices that we're seeing for gas in the marketplace, that's driving the cost on the floating market down substantially. And, as a result, it's directly impacting the revenue that Manitoba Hydro is generating in terms of export, and also quite dramatically impacting the bottom line, and the positive bottom line, for Manitoba Hydro.

And that's why, you know, we on this side of the House question the capital proje cts that we're going enter into here in terms of Manitoba Hydro development, in the time we're in here right now, with the low rates that we're receiving on our product and on the export side. And I think we'll get into that discussion in a –at another day; I know we had a good discussion on that this morning. But certainly

2252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 that revenue that we're going to generate from the export market is going to have a demand in terms of this fund as well, so we're not sure exactly what kind of money is going to be alloc ated into this particular fund. And the second point that I raise is –arises out of this particular fund, is how is that fund going to be used? And, if you look at the explanatory note under this legislation, it leaves the window pretty wide open. And I think Manitobans may have a concern when they have a look at some of the options in terms of what this fund will be used for.

Certainly, you can't argue with improvements in energy efficiency and conservation and reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. I thi nk that's something that all Manitobans would –are striving to achieve, and we certainly understand that, but some of the things here get a little more questionable, Mr. Speaker. The fund may also be used to support social enterprises and community organizations in assisting people or neighbourhoods to participate in such activities.

Now, we –we're not exactly sure on this side of the House what all that may mean in terms of what this fund will be used for, so–and I guess the same old story holds true in this case, that the devil's in the detail. And depending on what regulations come forward as a result of this legislation, you know, Manitobans have a right to be hesitant in terms of moving this legislation forward, because at the end of the day, we are all stakeholders in Manitoba Hydro.

And we want to make sure that any revenue that Manitoba Hydro gets is used in the best interest of us as stakeholders and us as shareholders in Manitoba Hydro. So that is really one of the issues that we want to raise and hopefully Manitobans will pick that up and we look forward to their comments coming forward in–to committee once this bill passes second reading. Mr. Speaker, the second component of this legislation is the formation of an energy efficiency plan, and, aga in, I think that's a laudable goal. It's probably something that Manitoba should have developed in the past.

You know, we should have a pretty clear direction of how and when we're going to move to reduce our energy requirements and improve our energy efficiency, and it's certainly very important. And, obviously, with Manitoba Hydro as a key Crown corporation here in Manitoba, we all have a – certainly, an interest in that. And, obviously, if we can reduce energy consumption here in the – Manitoba, it will al low us to sell more electricity to other jurisdictions. Hopefully, that will increase revenue to Manitoba Hydro, again, lower the debt and reduce some of the expenses on the debt side of things.

So, clearly, an energy efficiency plan is something that we look forward to seeing on the table. And, I think, the other thing, too, Mr. Speaker, is the setting of targets in terms of that energy efficiency, and that's –I think that's pretty critical going forward. And, certainly, Manitoba is not relying just on hydro-generated electricity, but we have opportunities as well in other forms of renewable energy.

Certainly, we've got a start in terms of wind energy production here in the province of Manitoba, but I think there's other opportunities that we can certainly look at here in terms of renewable energy. * (15:00) So, hopefully, those components could be tied into the energy efficiency plan as well, and I think that would be important for all Manitobans. I think Manitobans should be involved in that dialogue in terms of that energy efficiency plan.

You know, we certainly are in favour of communication and consultation with those involved in the industry and those around the province that have an interest in energy efficiency. The other key component of that plan, too, Mr. Speaker, is to make sure that we're on the right track in terms of the programs that we develop, and making sure that those programs that we develop and the money that we invest in those programs are going to be put to the best use.

It's all about getting value for money and hopefully the energy efficiency plan will lay out a clear, concise vision how we're going to get value for our money here in Manitoba. And, clearly, Manitoba Hydro will be important in implementing some of the strategies involved in that energy efficiency plan. So that's certainly very important. Mr. Speaker, the third component of this legislation is the on -meter efficiency improvements program, and I believe the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) talked quite extensively about this component of the legislation.

It's a concept that's not that entirely new to Manitoba. It really –what it looks like it's going to do is expand some of the

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2253 existing programs and, also, it has a look at what some of the other jurisdictions are doing around the country as well. So it may be something that –it'll be interesting to see how it does unfold. And, again, Mr. Speaker, I just –a word of caution, you know, the devil's in the detail, as the member for Brandon West said. There's a lot of issues in there, questions that are raised, that we don't have answers for at this particular time. So we just –I wanted to throw out caution in terms of that component of this particular legislation as well.

And as a result of the legislation, there's also amendments have to be made to other pieces of legislation and, in particular, The Residential Tenancies Act, and also in regard to The Manitoba Hydro Act and The Real Property Act. Because, Mr. Speaker, it's an on-meter type system, there has to be an acknowledgement that there will be indebtedness to that particular piece of property going forward and that's why there has to be consequential amendments made to those other pieces of legislation. So there, again, as the member pointed out, there's lots of issues there that have to be addressed.

There's certainly a number of questions that are raised with changes in that regard. So, Mr. Speaker, certainly, having said all that, we do think there's opportunit y in this principle moving forward. Obviously, the legislation raises some questions. We certainly are interested to see what people have to say in the committee side of things. The other thing I should raise here at this point in time, as well, we're in an area of renewable energy and it's certainly –that whole field will certainly be enhanced by the –putting investments into research and development.

And I'm not sure the money that's talked about in this particular legislation will lead to any enhancements in terms of research and development here in Manitoba. But it'll be something that we should have an opportunity to flush out into the future to see if there's opportunities to develop new technologies here in Manitoba which could benefit the economy in the short term and in the long run as well. I'd also, at this time, like to mention, Mr. Speaker, some of the Power Smart programs that we have through Manitoba Hydro. Certainly, some of those programs have been very successful in the past.

And we heard a t Hydro committee, just a couple of months ago, about the amount of electricity that we're saving due to those Power Smart programs here in Manitoba and, actually, over the course of time it has been quite significant. And the point that Manitoba Hydro rai sed themselves, you know, if these programs are successful, and they have been in the past, that also allows us to reduce our investment in terms of the capital. So not as much capital is required to build dams in the future because not as much electricity is required.

But, having said that, that's just our domestic load, and into the future, obviously, we –I think there's opportunities in terms of our export market. I know the current NDP government is certainly focusing on export sales into the United St ates, and that's kind of been a key component of their sales. And every time they get a term sheet signed, they're certainly–bring those issues forward to the public. And we certainly hope that will continue and we hope those contracts will be financially rewarding to Manitoba Hydro as well. But, having attended, Mr.

Speaker, an energy seminar in Ontario just a few months ago, it was quite interesting to hear the demand for energy in Ontario. Certainly, over the next several years, as we know, Ontario will be trying to move away from their coal-generated electricity. So, as a result of that, they're going to be looking for alternatives to replace that amount of energy from coal production. And when we look at the market in Ontario, the coal –the electricity generated by coal is a very substantial amount of power. So, Mr. Speaker, it's clear that there's tremendous opportunities for Manitoba Hydro in the Ontario market.

So what we're –what we're expressing to the government is that there's a tremendous opportunity for sales, export sales, into Ontario. Now, obviously, that–now, clearly, if we want to sell electricity into Ontario, we also need a transmission line into Ontario, and that –that–I think it's incumbent upon the government of the day to be having discussions with Ontario in terms of their energy needs. So, hopefully, they will take that into context. We certainly look forward to having this legislation go to committee, and I thank you for that time, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Any further debate on Bill 24?

Seeing no further debate, is the House ready for the question?

2254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 24, The Energy Savings Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] SECOND READINGS Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed with Bill 23– second reading on Bill 23, The Local Government Statutes Amendment Act. Bill 23–The Local Government Statutes Amendment Act Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Local Government): I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr.

Struthers) that Bill 23, The Local Government Statutes Amendment Act, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of the House. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux : I'd like to make just a c ouple comments to put on the record about Bill 23. This proposed legislation would strengthen accountability, transparency in municipal governments. Proposed amendments to municipal legislations are aimed at supporting municipalities and governing objectiv ely, fairly, with the best interests of their communities in mind.

And Manitoba municipalities make important decisions every day that impact the lives of their citizens. We know that municipalities take this responsibility seriously and strive to govern in an accountable and transparent manner.

Bill 23 would require all municipalities outside of Winnipeg to put in place policies and practices aimed at strengthening the accountability of municipal councils and supporting transparent decision making, including following a code of conduct that would set standards of behaviour for municipal council members and exercising the authority to censure a member who has breached that code, providing notice and information to the public about capital projects prior to borrowing funds for projects so citizens would have information to enable them to voice their concerns before projects move forward, following a tendering and procurement policy to ensure spending decisions are objectively fair and municipal resources are used in the most efficient and effective way, following a policy to ensure practices for the private use of municipal equipment are clear and consistently applied, and reporting on the council's response to any recommendations made in a report by the offi ce of the Auditor General so that citizens will be aware of the recommendations and be able to hold their councils accountable for responding to them. * (15:10) Bill 23 would also expand existing legislation to reduce the potential for conflict -of-interest situations when municipalities work regionally.

Employees of a regional municipal body would be required to take a leave of absence before they could be nominated or elected to council. As well, all municipal council members, including those in Winnipeg, would be required to disclose a new annual statement of assets and interests, all properties they own in the province, not just property they own in the municipality. Council members' statements of assets and interests are available for review by the public.

It is an expectation that municipal councils, like all governments, make decisions that are in the best interest of the municipality as a whole, and this strengthens citizens' trust and confidence in their municipal government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise to put a few comments on the record on The Local Government Statutes Amendment Act, Bill 23. There are a couple of areas of this bill that I find a little troubling. Most of the things in t he bill are things that probably municipalities have been doing for quite a number of years already.

I've had a lengthy background in municipal politics, and municipalities are near and dear to my heart. And I know the jobs that they do out there and I'm v ery proud of the municipal councillors and their employees all over this province, and the –they're the ones out in the ground. They're the ones that really, actually, make things happen and they're the closest to the people, and they react the most to the people and–carry–carrying out their duties.

This bill calls for a code of conduct for council members, as did the one on the school boards the other day, and this one doesn't go into, I don't think, quite as much detail as the school board one did. But I still am a little taken aback, as some of my other colleagues were the other day, on the code of conduct. And a code of conduct may be –well be a good thing. But, obviously, the members opposite

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2255 don't live by any code of conduct by many of the things we've seen happen since this sitting in the House started. One of the things that I am somewhat concerned about, it says that if the municipality has to develop a code of conduct and then if a councillor breaks that code of conduct, he's subject to censure, and censure's a fairly vague term. It says he's–he or she is subject to censure from a majority of that council, 50 per cent plus one. It doesn't say what censure means.

It doesn’t say what the penalties might be and it doesn't give that councillor any appeal mechanism, which I find very strange. We've had municipal councils from time to time, and I ran into them when I was involved with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, where there's a definite split on council, where there's two councillors on o ne side of things and three on the other and a lot of our municipal councillors –councils are made up of five people. So you get three people on one page and two on the other page and those three censure them; what's the penalty? Are they censured out of the council meetings?

Are they put on a –probation for a month or 30 days or what happens? And I could see it happening over and over again. I think this could open up a lot of battles at the council table. So, really, that's the big question. What's the penalty? What's censure really mean? Does it just mean you slap their wrists and say, oh, you were bad, don't do that again? What does it really mean? And if they feel they're being taken advantage of, where's an appeal mechanism? Who can they go to and say this is wrong, what's happening to me on this municipal council is wrong?

So I think that–I actually think that clause should be pulled right out of the bill until it's either strengthened or something else happens. But I think right at the present time that clause should be taken right out of the bill. Things like a borrowing bylaw, money from reserves, the –wouldn't be covered, of course, but that's–one of the questions I would have on that situation is, really, what happens in joint ventures?

And the one that comes to mind for me is the Neepawa Personal Care Home, where five municipalities banded together, entered into a tax- sharing agreement and, basically, did an almost, somewhat of a joint-borrowing process.

And I would presume from what the legisla tion says, they would all have to go the individual public meetings with their own–or individual public disclosure with their own municipality on a venture like that, and if you had one of those five where the people said, no, we won't go through with this –we won't let you go through with this borrowing bylaw, it destroys the project for the other four municipalities, which, I think, is rather a sad way to have a project come to an end.

And the course on those things like the personal care home, there's a r equirement of 10 per cent to be put up by the local community, and when there's a new one. The Auditor General–the

section that deals with the Auditor General's response –response to the Auditor General's reports, I think that's probably a good part of the legislation; municipalities are required to respond to the Auditor General's report. They can respond by saying, we're not going to do anything with your recommendations, but at least they have to respond and that's consistent with what's happening in the Legislature when the Auditor General makes a report. Private works. I would be really surprised–and this is putting a fee

schedule on municipal equipment that you're using in–for a private that goes outside of the municipal boundaries a little bit. I'd be really surprised if there's any municipalities out there that haven't got fee schedules in place, and the same thing with procurement policy, and that's where you're gaining more equipment and stuff for the municipality. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair And the conflict to–policy. One of the comments I would make is I don't understand why this bill says that you have to claim all properties you own anywhere in the province.

I think it's quite acceptable that you have to claim a properties you own in the jurisdiction that you're on council in. But if you extrapolate on that a little bit, that would be the same as saying to the members of this Legislature, if you own a piece of property in BC, you've got to put it on your conflict -of-interest thing here. That's not necessarily true. We're only required to put the properties that we own or are affiliated with in this province.

Not like some people, I'm sure, in this House, probably have a winter home somewhere that they go to for a coupl e of months in Arizona or Florida or Texas, and I can't see what the point is of having to state those ownerships outside the jurisdiction that you're actually serving in. You know, that I –when I talked about the censure, the one thing I forgot to mention–but we do

2256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 live in a democratic system. I don't think we need councils censuring each other. The people that vote will decide next election who's going to be there and who's not. So, there–as I said, there are a number of things in this bill that I'm no t necessarily in favour of. There's–but there's a lot of this bill that are things that municipalities were already doing, and there's a lot of these things that I certainly support. Some of them are things I've asked for over the years when I spoke about municipal issues.

So I look forward to this bill going forward to committee and seeing what presentations are made on this bill. And, with those few words, I thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. * (15:20) Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul ): And before this bill goes to committee, I, too, would like to put a few comments on the record. It mirrors very much the bill that we saw yesterday when it came to accountability for school boards. And now we have a second bill that somehow wants to bring a code of conduct for councillors, which is interesting, because somehow it doesn't apply to Cabinet ministers and minister of the NDP.

In fact, I would like to draw attention, Mr. Deputy Speaker, of the House to an incident that happened just in the last month, month and a hal f, where the Premier (Mr. Selinger) held really, an unprecedented press conference in which he requested that two of his Cabinet ministers, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) and the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), that they should both apologize t o the Manitoba Legislature and to the people of Manitoba for certain things that they had done and the way that they had, inadvertently, misled Manitobans.

Now, for the first time in the history of this Manitoba Legislature, for the first time in the his tory of Manitoba, we had a minister, the Minister of Finance get up and read quite an eloquent letter of apology. Now it didn't quite apologize , apologize. It kind of said he was sorry that he inadvertently misled, but I think we all got the point that he was sorry that he done what he had done. Now, we are still waiting for the member for Kildonan to follow his leader's orders and read a letter of apology of some kind, and we'll wait patiently.

We still have another three and a half years for that letter to come, and he should listen to his boss. He should listen to the Premier, because you know what? On this one–and I don't give the Premier much credit for being right –but on this one I would have to say the Premier is absolutely right. The member for Kil donan should apologize, because at least in this case they would have been leading as an example. And perhaps the member for Kildonan could look at Bill 23, and it's interesting in the explanatory note where it says, councils are required to establish a code of conduct for council members.

A member who is found to have breached the code may be censured by the council. And the member for Kildonan would actually be leading by example if he would–and he was found to have breached some kind of code of conduct by the Premier. Perhaps he should listen to his Premier and take the censure that he got from his Premier and apologize for it. In fact, in Bill 23, if members of the House would turn the –to page 2, it says under c ensure: A council may censure a member i f it determines that the member has breached the code of conduct. Well, you know what, Mr. Speaker?

That would be an appropriate thing to, perhaps at committee or at some stage, to add an amendment right here: 84.1(3) in which we would add a second clause which would say: The Manitoba Legislature may censure a member of the NDP Cabinet when it determines that those members have breached the code of conduct. And you know, it's good that the Minister of Finance, for the first time in the history of this provi nce, for the first time in history of this Legislature, apologized for having misled the House, that there should actually be some censure for that.

And again, as said, we're waiting for the member for Kildonan to follow his example. But there's another c ase, Mr. Speaker, where there could be an amendment made to this bill, whereby the Manitoba Legislature would actually lead by example, and that would be the member for Seine River (Ms. Oswald) who has been found in breach, if you will, of the conduct of t he election law. And, fact, the member for Seine River, the Minister of Health, was found to have breached the election law and, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any repercussions.

Now, if you look at this bill, it says that if you are found to have been in breach of the code, that you can be censured. And perhaps there should be a clause put in at 18.1.3 that says that the Manitoba Legislature may censure ministers of

June 7, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2257 the NDP who are found to be in breach of the Manitoba election act. And it's important that this House should be a beacon. It should be a shining light on the hill showing others where they should go, and when they get off the path how they should walk back onto the righteous path. And we should lead as an example here in the Legislature, and that's why I call on the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers), I call on the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), and I call on the member for Seine River (Ms. Oswald) to – perhaps, we should–they should lead by example.

And, Mr. Speaker, before I conc lude, I would like to say that in this group should be the member for Riel (Ms. Melnick), who actually took the public service and politicized it; the member of Southdale, instead of standing up for students, took tickets to a professional game –hard-working students; and the member for Dawson Trail and La Verendrye. But that will be for another day. And we would like to see this bill go to committee, and, perhaps, government members would agree to have some proper amendments come forward, where this House would actually lead by example. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Question before the House is second reading of Bill 23, The Local Government Statutes Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 38–The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2012 Mr. Deputy Speaker: We move on to resume the adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Attorney General (Mr.

Swan), second reading of Bill 38, The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2012, standing in the name of the honourable member for Morris. Is there unanimous consent of the House for the bill to remain standing in the name of the – [interjection] Oh, okay. I recognize the honourable member for Morris. Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I guess what this bill does is, really, it's basically a housekeeping type of bill where there are corrections made to –minor corrections made to the statutes over the course of the term. We did have some questions on it, which were provided by the member for Minto (Mr.

Swan), the Justice Minister, and we, as well, di d take some time to look through it, and did have some questions, which I believe we have got answers to. So, with that, I think that we can just pass this bill to committee, and if there's any questions that come up between now and then, we can deal with them at committee. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, just to note that I'm content to see this go forward, and thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? An Honourable Member: Question. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Question before the House is second reading of Bill 38, The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2012. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Hon. Dave Chomiak (Deputy Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I think the list is –I'd like to call the bills in the next following order: Bill 7, Bill 34, and, well, I'll leave it at that point. Bill 7–The Community Renewal Act Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Question before the House is debate on second reading of Bill 7, The Communi ty Renewal Act –one moment–on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Housing and Community Development (Ms. Irvin -Ross)–okay– standing in the name of –one second–the member for–pardon me –Portage la Prairie, who has 25 minutes remaining. Is it the will of the House to allow the bill–is it the–is there unanimous consent of the House for the bill to remain standing in the name of the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Wishart). Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Leave has been denied.

Is the House ready for the question? The member for River Heights. * (15:30)

2258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 7, 2012 Mr. Gerrard: I'd like to just put a few words on the record, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I think it's interesting that the very name community renewal bill here indicates, and is a sign of the tremendous deterioration that there's been in so many communities under this government. And, that, obviously, is one of the reasons why t here has to now be some renewal, because of the problems in so many communities. And, of course, this last year, we can point to, you know, communities which have been devastated as a results of action taken

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-1-47b
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Volume / chapter	40th 1st hansardpdf 47b.pdf
Language	en
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