Volume 4 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 4th. Session VERBATIM REPORT THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1975 SPEAKER : THE HONOURABLE M . JAMES RUSSELL Number 12

March 13, 1975 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 354 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! It is a pleasure for me to welcome to the galleries today fifty-three grade five students from the Upper Gullies Elementary School at Upper Gullies, with their teachers Mrs. Stone and Mrs. Steele. On behalf of all the honourable members I certainly welcome you to the galleries and trust that your visit here is most interesting and informative. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Rehabilitation and Recreation. HON. T. DOYLE, MINISTER OF REHABILI TATION AND RECREATION: Mr.

Speaker, among the special programmes and projects announced in the record Budget Speech that my colleague, the honourable Minister of Finance delivered yesterday, was the very welcome news that this government is establishing a new programme for assistance to build stadiwns. As stated in the speech, in the first instance the programme will apply only to the following nine communities, Whitbourne, Conception Bay South, St. George's, Windsor, Marystown, St. John's Avalon Arena, Bishops Falls, Wabush and Corner Brook. I would now like to elaborate on this policy, Mr.

Speaker, so that the nine communities involved will be aware of the specific details of government's plana. I would mention first that these nine coomunities had been given a committment from our department of the former stadium capital grant of $225,000 over a five year period.

Since these committments were given during the last year or so, the communities involved have been caught by the tremendous escalation of construction costs as well as the increases in the cost of money and while three coumunities managed to get construction underway, the other six had been delayed from making a start because of the financial difficulties. The new policy is based on a maximwn cost not to exceed 1123 •

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 354 NM - 2 $700,000, Any funds required over that amount must be found exclusively by the community concerned. The stadium capital grant by the Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation is to be increased from $225,000 to $300,000 to be paid in five equal annual payments. The balance of the costs involved not to exceed $400,000 are to be shared equally by the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing and the municipality by two methods.

The departmeqt's share will be financed on a long term basis by the Newfoundland Municipal Financing Corporation in the name of the council concerned~ with the principle and interest to be paid by annual subsidy by that department. The municipal authority is to find the balance of funding required, either through outright initial contributions or by means of financing through a bank on the strength of an approval to borrow only, but without any government guarantee. I wish to also state at this time that a moratorium has now been placed on capital grants for stadia for a period of at least one year.

It is hoped that during this time costs will have levelled off. It will also give my department an opportunity to work out further policies with regard to the construction of any additional stadia in the province. In future it is planned that this will be done on a regional basis with the size and cost of the facility bearing some relationship to the population served. I may say, Mr.

Speaker, that my department is seriously studying standardization of stadium plans in order to eliminate many of the costs which are becoming such a burden on communities wishing to construct major recreational facilities, In this 1124

March 13, 1975 Tape 355 IB-1 connection my department will be seeking the services of a full-time professional engineer so that we will be in a position to assist communities with their planning for recreational facilities. Government is very much aware of the demands for ice time on existing stadiums and arenas throughout the province. We are also very familiar with the problems which the nine communities named have been experiencing due to the current financial situation. It is with these things in mind that this new and generous policy is announced. Mr.

Speaker, I am very proud to announce this new policy today coupled with projected, overall, increased spending in the field of recreation for the coming year. This policy is but another exemplification of the complete awareness by this government of the demands of our people in the field of recreation. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Bell Island. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, increasing the capital grant commitments towards stadiums from $225,000 to $300,000 does not appear to us over here in the Opposition benches to be such a generous thing after all.

I am not quite sure, Sir, we will have to wait for the reaction from the nine communities involved, before we can determine, Sir, whether or not they are able to raise their share of the cost of construction of stadiums. In the case of Bishop Falls, I think it is $200,000. I believe they already have raised almost that amount of money, but I am not sure about the other communities. They have to finance $400,000, Sir, and that - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: No, Sir, there is not. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: My understanding, ~r.

Speaker, is that $200,000 will be backed by the Department of Mtmicipal Affairs through the Municipal Loan Corporation. Is that correct? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: And the Municipal Loan Corporation will not try to recover the loan from the municipality. Oh well, that is a horse of a different color, Sir. The minister did not make that clear, Sir. If the government is going to retire that loan, then the nine communities involved may or may 112~

March 13, 1975 Tape 355 IB-2 not be able to - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: How much? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: $500 out of $7,000. MR. NEARY: $500 out of the $7,000 would be financed by the government. Well then, Sir, that seems to be fairly reasonable if that is the arrangement, but that is not what I understood from the minister. So, we will just have to wait and see, Mr. Speaker, if these nine cominunities can raise the $200,000 necessary to provide their share of the contributions. MR. SPEAKER: Any other ministerial statements? The honourable Minister of Transportation and CoDDllunications. HON. J.

ROUSSEAU (MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION AND COMMUNICATIONS): Mr. Speaker, it is that time of year again for motor vehicle registration. I would like to make a few comments on that. Due to the inclement we·ather experienced over the last few months coupled with the number of statutory holidays during the later part of this month, I wish to advise the motoring public that the Motor Vehicle 11.egistriltion Division shall remain open until 9:00 P.M. on Wednesday, March 26 and Thursday, March 27 and close on Good Friday and on Easter Saturday will be open from nine to five on Saturday, March 29.

On the final day of March, from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M. This applies to the regional offices in Grand Falls and Corner Brook as well. Should the current mail service be disrupted in Labrador or in any other area of the province, especially the remote areas of the province, it may be necessary to consider an extension of the deadline on motor vehicle registration. Right now it is not a matter that is being considered, but should rotating strikes in the airlines or something happen, certainly people would not be penalized for that.

Our good friend from Labrador North, over in the Eastern Area there, would not be penalized in that situation. I might also add - it is all on the statement, Mr. Speaker, - that up until today we had about approximately one third of the number 1126

March 13, 1975 Tape 355 18-3 of motor vehicles in the province registered 1about 60 , 000 out of about 180,000 anticipated. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Bell Island. MR. NEARY: The minister in his statement , Sir , did not make it clear what the reasons were for only thirty-three-and - one-third of the potential applicants already applying fo r their licenses in this province , what are the reasons? The minister must have some idea why people are not gett ing their licenses early this year. Is it because of the extra dollar just put on the license?

Is it because they have to pay their traffic tickets in order to get a license. Is this the reason that only thirty-three-and-one - third per cent have applied for licenses so far? Why is it that the Motor Registration Office has to collect the traffic fines? ls t here not a traffic court in this province? Is this a form of blackmail? MR. SPEAKER: Order , please!

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 356 Page 1 - mw MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am asking the minister to clarify his statement, Sir, why people are not applying for their licence? Why does the minister think they are not applying early? Is it because they do not have the money or why? What is the reason? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible), MR.. NEARY: Well does not the registrar know? RON. J. ROUSSEAU (Minister of Transportation and Communications) : I do not know why two-thirds of the people are not applying, I have no idea whatsoever. By the way the Motor Vehicle Registration Division is not collecting ' fines.

It is the Traffic Court. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. R, SIMMONS: MR. MURPHY: MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: a change. MR. SIMMONS: PETITIONS: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to present - - Inaudible). No, not a new road, Order, please! Yea boy, learn the rules of the House and keep quiet for Mr. Speaker, the subject I have, I can understand the minister prating on, because the subject I have he probably anticipates, and he would probably want to ignore it. It is my pleasure, Mr. Speaker, to present a petition on behalf of nearly 1,300 people, actually 1,268, residents of St.

John's, Kilbride, Portugal Cove, Manuele, Topsail. The petition, Mr. Speaker, relates to the petitioners concerned over the closing of the United Church· Children's Home, and perhaps it is best I read parts of the petition,at least. We, the undersigned, concerned citizens,feel the United Church Children's Home now scheduled for closing at the end of this month should be kept open. In view of the good work done by this home every effort should be made to ensure that the children living happily there are not forced to leave. 1128

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 356 Page 2 - mw As I say, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by tne residents of the St. John's area, 1,268 of them altogether. The petition came to us for presentation, but I should make it clear in view of the possibility of some aspersions from the other side of the House, that this is an item we did not solicit. It came to us quite unsolicited from the petitioners who requested that we present the petition as I am now doing. The petitioners, Mr.

Speaker, pointed out in private discussions with me that their main concern, which is in the prayer of the petition 1they would like to have reiterated verbally, their main concern is for the children and for the continued welfare of the children. They have expressed concern in particular that contrary to what has been stated publicly by the minister respnnsible, they have some evidence that all the children have not been placed, all the children have not been looked after adequately, and it is with this kind of concern in mind that the petition has been signed by so many people.

They would also like me to mention, in the light of their concern, that government be asked to reconsider this decision, and discuss it with the other authorities involved with a view to ensuring that the home stays open beyond the deadline at the end of this month when it is due to close, and particularly and ultimately that all of the children now in the home be adequately cared for. Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure on behalf of the 1,268 petitioners to request that the petition be placed on the table of the House and referred to the appropriate department. MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. }linister of Social Services. HON.

A. J. MURPHY (Minister of Social Services): It is not my purpose to support this petition because as far as my department is concerned the issue is closed. I would like to take the opportunity, Sir, to speak on the petition, the fact, because of charges made within that petition, Sir, by people unidentified 1 that these children are not - AN HON. MEMBER: They are identified. AN HON. MEMBER: Sit down. Know the rules, learn the rules of the House. 112~

March 13, 1975 Tape 357 ·(Afternoon) MR. SPF.AKER.: Order, please! MR. MURPHY: that these children are not being properly looked after, Sir. And I would like to say that this is an absolutely untDlth. PK - 1 MR. F. ROWE: On a point of order. It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that a person has a right to stand up and support a petition, and not to debate it. I submit that the Hon. Minister of Social Services is debating the contents of the petition and is not supporting it, and therefore it is quite out of order, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear! MR. MORGAN: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

A person can stand and speak on a petition, not necessarily in support of that petition. So the honourable gentleman for St. John's Centre is in order. MR. CROSBIE: The rules of the House are quite clear about petitions. And the subj,ect has been raised here earlier in this session. We are still proceeding under the lenient acceptance of a custom that has grown up in the House that a member can introduce a petition and speak for several minutes, and that other members of the House can be allowed to speak to it also without any major debate arising.

You do not have to rise on a petition to support it, you can rise on a petition to oppose it if you wish, but within the bounds that you can only be several minutes and not have a debate on the matter. MR. F. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. If I remember correctly, Mr. Speaker, on the first or second day of the opening of this parti~ular session Your Honour suggested to this House of Assembly that if a person was not willing to get up and speak in support of a petition that you would consider cutting off debate,or cut off statements made pertaining to petitions.

And that was the same circwnstance that very day that led you to make that statement. Now I submit, Sir, that the minister 1 unless he is prepared to support this particular petition 1 is completely our of order. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear: Hear! 1130

March 13, 1~75 Tape 357 (Afternoon) PK - 2 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! In reference to the first or second day of this session I said that I would certainly consider allowing any honourable member to reply to a petition being presented. To my knowledge there is nothing in our Standing Orders which says that a person has to support a petition. It is an understood leniency perhaps granted by the Chair for a person to speak in reply to a petition. To my knowledge he does not have to support the petition. So I recognize the Hon. Minister for Social Services. MR.

MURPHY: If I may, perhaps I may rise to anoint of personal privilege. With reference to the statement just made by the honourable Member for Hermitage wherein accusations were made that I,as minister responsible for my department 1did something other than what was for the benefit of the children in this home.

The charges being made by 1,268 unidentified people through the member - and I would just like to say, Sir, as far as I am concerned, and my department is concerned that negotiations were on-going with a private institution and eventually in view of the terrible mischievous things that have been done, not only by the members opposite, but by press, radio, and everything else - the United Chruch Conference itself AN HON. MEMBER Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

MURPHY: The United Church Conference itself stepped in, not the Board, Sir, not any other area, but the Conference itself stepped in and made a joint statement - AN HON. MEMBER: MR!. SPEAKER: MR •. }!UR.PHY : Inaudible. Order, please! I do not think we will vote anything to education, Sir, this year when we look at the gentleman opposite. I do not think it is worth it. 1131

March 13, 1975 Tape 357 (Afternoon) PK - 3 But, Mr. Speaker; as I was saying 1 a joint stateinent by the 1>resident ·, or the m.odexator, or the President of the Conference and myself set the facts ou.t. Now anybody who wants to contiu.ue thi.s to the harassment,if you like, of the children of this home are perfectly :.. I fo not agree with them doing it.

Arid I think it is a terrible thing t:hat is. happening, And I d() not know who is at the bot.tom of it but I would like to see the petit .ion and fJ.nd out who originated the thing, Sir, and I will take action on behalf of my department to meet with these people, and bold a discussion with them. But I thlnk it is ve-ry, very, trlscheivous~ and not at all in keeping with the record ·that the Department of Social Services has established, Sir, in looking after the children. 'l'llere are nineteen Sir, of some 4,200 that my Mrecto-r of Child Welfare is t:.esponsible for, Sir.

So I think it is a very, very serious thing and a c0111plete, Sir, a:Lscbevious thing to bring into this House and keep this matter open. AN HON, MEMBER: Bear! Hear! 1132

March 13, 1975 Tape No.358 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Placentia East. MR. AYLWPRD: Mr . Speaker, I am sure this petition will generate nothing but support from both sides of the House of Assembly. I think it is really a most unusual petition in this mechanical, modern age. This is a petition from the residents of the Community of St. Bride's. There are thirty horse owners, believe it or not, and they are supported by several other residents of the community. AN HON. MEMBER: Horse owners? MR. AYLWARD: Horse owners. SOME HON. MEMBERS : What? MR. AYLWARD: That is people who own horses. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Inaudible. MR. AYLWARD: No, no, no, no, no, I knew exactly what this would provoke, Mr. Chairman -Mr. Speaker, I am sorry- because all these honourable gentlemen undoubtedly have their vehicles and they are probably not as concerned. But this is a serious problem in this community and I think the Chairman of what is referred to as the Pasture Committee puts the plight of the horse owners and the horses more adequately than ever I could or indeed anyone supporting this petition.

So I am not going to stretch the rules but I am going to refer in particular to their prayer in their own words, and they say this, Mr. Speaker, "The Community Council at St. Bride's has passed a control law of animals at large as of the Spring of 1975." So that would become operative pretty soon, despite all the snow that we have had in that district particularly, which adjoins the district of my honourable and learned friend here from St. Mary's. I am sure he will be on his feet next to support this because the horses from Point Lance would also want the same liberties. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh well. MR.

AYLWARD: But it says, "In the light of this, we the undersigned request permission for either the horses to be permitted on the 113j

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 358 NM - 2 community pasture or the department give materials such as fence posts and wire to fence available land to pasture horses." Well, Mr. Speaker, I think they put this in excellent language and it will bring home to us really how valuable the horse has been and still is in these rural communities. Here is what they have to say, Mr. Speaker, and the letter is addressed to me of course, with the request that I present this to the honourable House. "We are again soliciting your help in yet another matter of vital importance to the people of St.

Bride's area, the problem is now our horses. "The connnunity council has a law passed that all animals are to be barred up this coming spring. We, the horse owners, met with the council and they promised us if we could get a place to put the horses during the summer months, they would not enforce the law. The horses are very much needed by the people since they are used practically all year around." Listen to this, Mr.

Speaker, you could not believe really how valuable it is, "In Spring, they are used to haul kelp and other manure for garden and hay ground, to transport fishing supplies and fencing materials for land. In Summer they are used to haul mo~ng machines and other hay making equipment. Then they are used to bring the hay to the barns. In the Fall and Winter the horses are used mainiy to haul firewood, but their chores are varied and many." AN HON. MEMBER: They are busy horse • MR. AYLWARD: "Therefore, the men use these horses almost constantly." '1Now, Mr. Aylward, we are going to explain the problem to you.

Eversince the first families came to St. Bride's we pastured our horses during the Summer months on theland which the Department of Agriculture fenced in for a community pasture. The rule they have ~ is that horses are not allowed on community pastures. Can you imagine? 1134

March 13, 1975 Tape ~o. 358 ''We , the people of St. llride' s, consider this an unjust rule . For hundreds of years, the horses, cows and sheep, have pastured together on this land , Now our horses are out and we have no where to put them . " AN RON • ME~filER : Inaudible, NM - 3 MR. AYLWARD: It goes on, Mr. Speaker. "Mr. Aylward, you are a lawyer an"d do you think that if we went to the High Court of Canada - ,, MR. RO~ERTS: On horseback. MR.

AYLWARD: "Do you think if we 1:1ent to the High Court of Canada, ·that the Department of Agriculture could stop us from pasturing our horses on this land when we had th£< rights to it for centuries. ''Eve ryone is quite satisfied to pay the fee for the horses, just as we do for the sheep and cattle , We are not condemning the community pasture as it is a wonderful thing for our community and our sheep and cattle are well looked after during the summer months. "This is a very large pasture and we think it is somewhere in the vicinity of between 7 ,000 and 10,000 acres, but not one acre for the horses. 11.3~

March 13, 1975 Tape 359 IB-1 "Yet the Department of Agriculture does not want the horses there with the cattle and sheep. There are lots of places they could fence off for our horses for the summer months as they have barred our right we II have had for centuries. In other words, they say, for 400 or 500 years took his horse to pasture and now the government have erected a pasture on which they only allow cattle and sheep. 11 We are enclosing a petition from the horse owners and people II depending on horses in the area. Listen to this, Mr. Speaker.

This will bring back memories I bet you of early days in the district you represent of Lewisporte. II It says, Sometwo families have a horse between them. In other cases, thrr.e families share the one horse. There are roughly thirty horses in the community. If we have to bar up our horses on our land and during the summer months we will have to do away with qur sheep and cattle as we will have no hay to feed II them and the horses will have it all grazed. They say they are spending the petition to the - copies of it - to the Minister of Agriculture and to the representative in Ottawa. Mr.

Speaker, we take ic in a jocular way. I respectively submit that this beast of burden is an important element of the community life of this small town. As they say, there are thirty of them there, but not alone are there thirty horseowners themselves, but the others who share the horses and who also 1of course 1have occasion to borrow them or to use them. It is a serious problem for these individuals and I sincerely solicit on behalf of all these horseowners and residents of St. Bride's the wholehearted support of the House. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that what is involved is a very small outlay of funds here.

Apparently some extra fencing to fence off a portion of the existing pasture so that the horses can be accommodated. So, Mr. Speaker, I ask leave that this petition be tabled and referred to the department to which it relates. I hope that speedy action will result. MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I rise on this side of the House and speak on behalf of my colleagues here in support of this petition. I am sure this is a very serious problem to the people involved. It may pass 1i3ti

March 13, 1975 Tape 359 IB-2 through this House, Sir, in a jov1al mood. Of course, we may snicker and grin at it, and there may be some amusing words in connect1on with the petition, but I am sure to the individuals concerned this is a very serious matter indeed and one which should be considered by the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. I notice he is not in his seat today.

It is too bad, because I think his predecessor last year was the man who raised the fees on community pastures in the province, ther .~b_y laying an extra burden on the cattle and sheep owners of our province and also the - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: They were not raised. MR. THOMS: Oh, they were raised, my friend. Indeed they were raised. They were tripled as a matter of fact. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, they were not. MR. THOMS: Oh, indeed they were tripled. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: The honourable member had better go back and check. MR. THOMS: They were tripled.

I have a copy of the minister's statement and the fees were tripled in 1974. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. WILSON: Then you must have chickened out. MR. THOMS: Well, Mr. Speaker, this to the people of St. Bride's is a very serious problem. I am sure the expenditure of funds in !ffiat this petition represents is only a minor one considering now that we have topped the $1 billion mark in our provincial budget. I am sure the present minister will be able to find the funds to help out the people, the horseowners of St. Bride's, so that their problem can be rapidly overcome. HON. ·T.V.

HICKEY (MINISTER OF TOURISM): Mr. Speaker, I w~uld like to add a word of support to this petition 1being familiar with the area my colleague refers to. I do not find that I can agree with the honourable member for Bonavista North very often but I do agree with him occasionally. This is one of the times that I agree when he says that this is a serious matter with regards to the people who are concerned enough to present a petition to their member. 1 . 3-· .1 ' .

March 13, 1975. Tape 360 RH - 1 I would also like for the benefit of the press, Mr. Speaker, to correct a statement made by the honourable Member for Bonavieta North about fees being raised last year. This is totally incorrect. Fees were not raised . MR. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. HICKEY: Inaudible. Order, please! Order, please! Fees were not raised, Mr. Speaker. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Order, order, order. MR. THOMS: Why do you cover up? MR. HICKEY: We are not covering up, Your Honour,at all. There was no increase in fees. There was a discussion paper issued. There was no final decision made.

In fact, the final decision with regards to raising it was not made at all. The fees were never raised. It was purely the basis for discussion. But, Mr. Speaker, as per usual the ~pposition - I suppose their role is to seize any opportunity, no matter how cheap it might be. However, I would just like to say that I most sincerely, Mr. Speaker, - MR. SIMMONS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. On a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Mr.

Speaker, the minister is obviously engaging in a deba~e on this petition and that is clearly against the Standing Orders of the House, Standing Order {97) in particular. I would suggest he be asked to follow the rules like the rest of us have to, =less if he wants a debate we would be happy to have one, Mr. Speaker, as long as we can all participate in it. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. CROSBIE: The honourable Member for St. John's East Extern is simply commenting on this petition and correcting a mis-statement of fact by the honourable Member for Bonavista North. In no way is it debate.

AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Carry on "Tom". 1138

March 13, 1975. Tape 360 RH - 2 MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries . AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The honourable Minister of Tourism, the Chair does not consider that he was engaged in a debate on this particular topic, but has been given the lenie~cy of the Chair a~ other members have in replying to a petition. He may continue. MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Your Honour. I was about to conclude, Mr. Speaker, when I was interrupted by the Member for Hermitage and I hope he follows the rules as ridigly as he would like us to follow them today.

I wanted to say in conclusion that I support this petition very sincerely and very seriously because as indicated by my colleague from Placentia West, it is a very grave problem to the people who were confronted with it. While it may seem not so important to members of the House or to the people in other parts of the Province, to those who were confronted with this problem it is a very real one and I hope that something can be done about it. REPORTS OF STANDING OR SPECIAL COMMITTEES: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Transportation and Communications. HON. J. ROUSSEAU: I would like to table, if I may, Mr.

Speaker, the following highway traffic regulations, 1975, for snow clearing in the Corner Brook area which was gazetted on January 24. Highway traffic supplementary regulation, 1975, snow clearing in Corner Brook area, gaz·etted on February 21; Highway traffic regulations, 1975, snow clearing Corner Brook, gazetted on January 24; Highway traffic regulations, 1975, snow clearing in the Grand Falls area, gazetted January 24; Highway traffic snow clearing, January, 1975, gazetted on January 24; Highway traffic regulations, 1975, snow clearing in the St. John's area, gazetted on January 24.

There are sixty-five copies of each. Also there are copies of regulations under the Highway Traffic Act or amendments to the regulations in r.espect to snowmobile operations in Churchill Fa113 and that area.

March 13, 1975. Tape 360 RH - 3 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Finance. MR. EARLE: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to question number nineteen on the Order Paper of March 12 asked by the honourable Member for Bell Island. The question is "At any time has Mr. 'William D.

Saunders, formerly the Member of the House of Assembly for the District of Bay de Verde, withdrawn any of the contributions he made to the Government Pension Plan for members of the House of Assembly and if so, (a} 'What are the amounts that have been withdrawn. (b} On what dates were they withdrawn? and (c} 'What is the value of any amounts that remain to his credit in the said Pension Plan?" The answer, Mr. Speaker, is that on July 19, 1974, Mr. Saunders requested in writing that his pension contributions paid during his term as a member of the House of Assembly be returned to him in full.

A full refund was forwarded to Mr. Saunders on August 8, 1974. Now, Mr. Speaker, in giving the answer, I do not intend to answer the rest of the question because I think that a man's pension plan is his own private business and I do not think that I should disclose the amounts he contributed or the amounts he withdrew. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hear! Hear! 1140

March 13, 1975 Tape No, 361 NM - 1 ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Industrial Development. HON. W.

DOODY, Minister of Industrial Development: Answer to the question on the Order Paper of Monday, March 10th. by the honourable Member for Bell Island, To ask the Minister of Industrial Development to lay upon the Table of the House the following information: For the fiscal year which began April 1, 1973, and as of a current date, what is the number of applications for financial assistance in respect of which financial assistance was offered by the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation for each Electoral District and showing also for each Electoral ·District the value of financial assistance so offered the persons and companies making the aforementioned applications?

The information is here, Sir, and I would like to read it out to the House. MR. NEARY: Table it. MR. MORGAN: No, read it out. MR. DOODY: The Development Corporation and the department spent quite a considerable amount of time and effort in compiling the information and I think the honourable House has the right to hear it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: A point of order, Your Honour, Mr, Speaker, Your Honour called Order nlDilber five, answers to questions for which notice had been given and the honourable lllinister did not rise, Sir - MR. DOODY: I did, I did rise. MR.

NEARY: To give the answer to the question to which a notice had already been given. This is the oral question period we are in now, Sir, and I would submit that if the minister wants to give the answer that he table it in the House. MR. DOODY: Your Honour, I will read it on Wednesday. AN HON. MEMBER: What Wednesday? MR. DOODY: Any Wednesday. 1141

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 361 NM - 2 ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relation, Sir; would the honourable 111inister care to tell the House why in all decency he refused to intervene in the dispute between IOC and the workers in .Labrador City when the workers down there requested the minister - MR. CROSBIE: Point of order, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. CROSBIE: The honourable gentleman well knows that a question is not supposed to contain any statements of opinion and so on.

It is an improper question, "Why in the name of decency," etc. and so· on is all improper. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! I wanted to let the honourable Member for Bell Island finish his question. I was certainly going to rule him out of order. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I will rephrase the question, would · the minister care to inform the House why the minister did not grant the request of the workers in Labrador City to intervene in the dispute between the workers in Labrador City and the Iron Ore Company of Canada? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. HON.

E. MAYNARD, Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations: Mr. Speaker, this province would probably be a lot better if the honourable Member for Bell Island would stap trying to sabotage labour relations in the province and try to be a responsible citizen, The request that came from Labrador City was for me to intervene personally and I did not see any advantage for me to intervene personally while we have had a conciliation officer on the case. The conciliation officer is still in contact with the parties and will continue to be and there is no point whatsoever of my getting 1142

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 361 NM- 3 involved personally at this time, All the Member for Bell Island is trying to do is sabotage the negotiations in Labrador City. He is trying to make a political point for himself. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. MAYNARD: Yes, it is in order. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Could the minister indicate to the House if negotiations are ongoing 1 if the conciliation officer is now in Labrador City and if so what progress is being made?

Is there any possibility of settling this without the minister's intervention? MR. MAYNARD: No, Mr. Speaker, this conciliation officer is not at the present time in Labrador City. He has been in contact with both parties. He has had continuing contact since he has been assigned to the case a number of weeks ago. He will continue contact with the parties and as far as I know, negotiations or whatever talks between the two are still ongoing. And I have no intention regardless of which question the member asked, to intervene at this point in time while ordinary labour relations are ongoing. MR.

NEARY: Mr, Speaker, supplementary, would the minister indicate the reaction of the workers in Labrador City when they got the word that the minister refused to intervene in this dispute? What was their reaction? MR. STAGG: I have not had any reaction. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Fogo. CAPT, WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, might I direct a ques~ion to the honourable Minister of Social Services; can the minister tell us if there is any arrangements made to get some of this McCain's food over to 114~-

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 361 NM - 4 Fogo Island? I understand there is a trailer going to be stationed at Carmanville but how about Fogo Island and perhaps Change Islands? 1144

March 13, 1975 Tape 362 (Afternoon) PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Social Services. MR. MURPHY: The honourable Member for Fogo asked a question. I wrote it down for him today. I am aware that he asked me again - if he would ask the question because I presume he wants his constituents back on Fogo Island 1 that it be in the press to say that he did ask the question. I will acknowledge that. Mr. Speaker - AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! AN HON . MEMBER: MR . SPEAKER: Inaudible. Order, please! MR. MURPHY: everybody - Do we want an answer to a question, or do we want AN RON.

MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: (Stagg) They are ramblinR on. AN HON. MEMBER: Carried! Carried~ MR. CROSBIE: Mr, Speaker, on a point of order. The honourable gentlemen are asking questions. Now if they want answers, Mr. Speaker, they will have to allow the answers to be made without all of these interjections. And I wi.11 further point out to Your Honour that they are completely ignoring any attempts by Your Honour to maintain order. I suggest, Sir, that the proper procedure should be followed if this continues, and that the offenders be named. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: Hear! Hear! Order, please! The Hon.

Member for Hermitage. HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker - AN HON. MEMBER: They will not give us the answers. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Now who is ignoring the Chair? 1145

March 13, 1975 Tape 362 (Afternoon) PK - 2 Mr. Speaker, to the point of order. We ask questions, we expect to get answers. The minister has not the answer, of course, but if he is going to answer he ought to do so in accordance with the rules of the House. And the rules on this point are very clear, Mr. Speaker. It says, Standing Order 25 (a) "But in putting any such question or replying to the same, no argument or opinion is to be offered, nor any facts stated, except so far as may be necessary to explain the same." And we have been sitting here, Mr.

Speaker, ever since this session opened putting up with all kinds of innuendo from various ministers. ·And.let them answer the question or decline to answer but stick to the point. HON. MEMBERS: MP. SPEAKER: MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAXER: question - MR. m:NSOR: MR. SPEAKER: Inaudible. Order, please! What would you know - Order, please! The Hon, Member for Fogo asked a I addressed a question to - Well just a minute, please! The honoUEable Member for Fogo directed a ~ueFtion to the Hon. Minister of Social Services. And in attempting to answer the question the Hon.

Miuister of Social Services may have strayed somewhat from the rule. However, he did not get a chance to proceed with his question because honourable gentlemen to my right and to my left perhaps interferred with him in giving an answer. I would certainly request that if a member asks a question he certainly has the right to an answer, if the minister wishes to answer, and another honourable member should let him be heard. MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I thank you, Sir.

With reference to the shipment of food to Fogo and Twillingate I have asked my department if some arrangements could be made, Sir• As I said yesterday, perhaps it needs a little explaining - these are sixty foot trailers, refrigerated trailer trucks I and they carry 40,000 1146

March 13, 1975 Tape 362 (Afternoon) PK - 3 pounds of food. We have tried to serve every area of the province we could, some twenty-five 1except - and perhaps the Member for Labrador North was not here. But unfortunately due to transportation- AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. MURPHY: If he does not want it, good enough. But anyhow, the honourable Member for Fogo did ask me yesterday, Sir, about the thing, and I gave him the answer today in writing, as best I could. But the story is this the ferry to Fogo has agreed to carry free of charge anything that we may want to send over there, Sir.

It is a physically impossibility, absolutely impossible to put this sixty foot trailer on that ferry. I did ask the Member for Fogo if he could arrange with someone 1 perhaps someone on the Island or somewhere else, or perhaps we might try to do it, I do not know if we can quite frankly, to perhaps get someone to donate a truck for perhaps to transfer some of this food to the truck to go on the ferry. That is the point as far as we know - we are arranging - we can arrange to get the food to Fredrickton, which I understand ·now is the term~n~ to connect with the ferry to Fogo.

And also for my honourable friend, and distinguished, and educated, and ~nnerly,and lovely gentleman for Twillingate, I just want to say that ·we are trying to arrange also, Sir, something to Twillingate. our Mr. Moss at Lewisporte is trying to work out the whole thing. So we are doing everything within our power, Sir1 to make this fiood available tp everybody that needs it by our standards, and please God we will be able to make the arrangements, And I assure the Member for Fogo that if we can do it, or if there is any help he can give us in any way - and, Mr.

Speaker, if I may at this time just avail of the opportunity to ask any member of this honourable House, Sir, where the food will be going, if they would aurange with - someone in their own areas, like a Service Club or something else to dig in and·give us a hand, I have asked the media to do it, Sir. And I. got a tremendous response yesterday .· We cleaned out everything we had for St. John's. And anybody who can give us any help to distribute this stuff, Sir, 1 i 4· · ...... I

March 1.3, 1975 Tape 362 (Afternoon) PK - 4 I wogld appreciate the meiibers CQDtact::1.ng either me, or Mr. Jerry Power who is doilng a tremendous job in sy departlient to facilitate the disttibution of this food. So do not feel shy to phone me at: anytime today, l work fro 8:30 llllt:il 6:00 o'clock in the evening. AN HOB. MJ™BER: Inaudible. MB.. MURPHY: I c~t guarantee chips. MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for Labrador North. 1148

March 13, 1975 Tape 363 (Afternoon) PK - 1 MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Hon. Minister of Health. I asked before in the House, and he told me to wait until the budget was brought down and he would give me an answer. I want to ask the minister if construction will start this Summer on the expansion of the Padden Memorial Hospital in Happy Valley? MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Health. HON. DR. A. ROWE (MINISTER OF HEALTH): Mr. Speaker, I cannot give a specific answer as to whether or not construction will start this year.

The member is well aware of the fact that there has been a Federal-Provincial Planning Committee doing the whole study on the proposed extension of the haspital concommitant with the priorities of which part of the extension expansion is most urgently required. · I can only tell the gentleman now that the budget is out I will be speaking more of it and giving you more details of this Planning Committee, and the plans in the future in the Health estimates. MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transportation and Communications.

I wonder would the minister care to indicate to the House when he expects to make public or table the list of roads to be upgraded and/or paved in the forthcoming fiscal year 1975-1976? MR. ROUSSEAU: MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. ROUSSEAU: Where? Where? In the province. The Hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. In due course. No, I am not going to tie myself down to a date, but when the lists are prepared, and that takes quite awhile. Certainly I am sure the honourable member can appreciate you do not want to leave any area out. That is a very comprehensive repott.

When we have it then we will take a look at it. A supplementary. Of course a lot of areas were left out 1if you would go by the budget. Is the minister saying that the decisions have not yet been made as to where the money is to be 114!:I

March 13, 1975 Tape 363 (Afternoon) PK - 2 expended on road upgrading this year? Have the decisions been made as of now? MR. ROUSS.EAU: Not all of the decisions. Some of them in respect to the completion of last year's w.ere commitments that have been made but the rest of it will develop as the year progresses. MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for Labrador North. MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transportation and Communications. I wonder if the minister could tell the House if there will be any airstrips developed along the Labrador Coast this year? MR.

ROUSSEAU: We would certainly hope so, AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible, MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. ROUSSEAU : You know if you would let me finish the answer, I will tell you. We have made application pro~incially to the federal government. We have some money in the budget, as you see, for landing strips. We have made application for areas on the Coast, one .of which I can mention, by the way1 is Cartwright, Of course, we are hoping to have that one ready for the Summer. We made applications for others , but until we come to an agreement with M.O.T.

I think it would be inappropriate for me to say, But we are now talking with M.O.T. but one of the areas 1especially because of the gas find -off the Coast is, Cartwright and the company involved are interested, as is the federal government, of course, and the provincial government in that area. But we have indications from the federal Government that the amount of money available for the landing strips may be increased, There is only $2 million as the honourable member knows now, or in that area, available for all of Canada.

We are sort of hoping that the federal government would agree with maybe a two year package for us,or something,so we would know which way to go, and we would be able to make a start on them. But we have made applications for airstrips on the Coast of Labrador. Yes, Cartwright is one of them, and is a priority 1150

March 13, 1975 Ta:pe 363 (Afternoon) PK - 3 but there are a couple of others 1too 1 that we are c6nsidering. As soon as we have anything definite from M.O.T. we will certainly make the House aware, and the honourable member aware of the areas. As the honou.rable member can see in the budget there is an aniount of money for these strips from the provincial point of view. MR. WOODWARD: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker ·, Can the minister tell the House what time he expects to hear from Ottawa if there will be funds available? MR. ROUSSEAU: I could not tell you that. I know that we·- MR. WOODWARD:. Inaudible. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. WOODWARD: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Hon. Member for Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a ques ·tion for the Hon. the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Public Works and Services. The Public T.endering . Ac.t, Mr. Speaker, in SectiQn 42, provides . that the minister shall within fifteen days from the opening of a session of the House table in the House a list of specific public works projects executed by Crown Corporations since the last proceeding session etc.

Would the Premier indicate when the government intends to table in the Rouse this list of projects? MR. SPEAlCER: The Hon. the Premier. 1151

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 364 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The honourable the Premier. MR. MOORES: I do not know if there are any, Mr. Speaker, but I will take notice of the question and find out. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Bonavista North. MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker; I would like to direct a question to the honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, Could the minister inform this House if the pasture fees which his predecessor imposed on March 6, 1974, were enforced as the statement stated that they were going to be enforced? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, the honourable member is going to have to be more specific. I really cannot answer the question. Maybe he can be more specific. MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, is it permissable for me to read out the statement given on March 6 - MR. SPEAKER: It is the oral question period and I will not permit the reading of statements. MR. THOMS: Well, Mr. Speaker, could I direct another question to the minister, is he aware of the statement that his predecessor made on March 6, 1974 in this honourable House, stating that the pasture fees had increased over the previous years. MR. SPEAKER: MR. COLLINS: MR. THOMS: MR.

SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. Mr. Speaker, the pasture fees have not been increased. It is here in black and white. You do not even know - Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. SPEAKER: The Address in Reply, I think the honourable Member for Bell Island adjourned the debate last day. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would you indicate Your Honour, how much time I have left? AN HON. MEMBER: Forty-five minutes. MR. SPEAKER: You have some thirteen or fourteen minutes left. 1152

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 364 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, just to recap some of the things that I mentioned in the Throne Speech on Monday. First of all, Mr. Speaker, I intimated that the theme of the Throne Speech all the way through 1 and I think everybody is getting this reaction now, was the dangerous implications that it had, Sir, that our whole democratic system was being placed in jeopardy, that our idea of representative democracy, Mr.

Speaker, was being swept aside and there was every indication in the Throne Speech, Sir, that the control of large expenditures of money, the decisions for large expenditures of money were going to be placed in the hands of a few people, rather than right here on the floor of the House of Assembly. Mr.

Speaker, this concentration of power 1in my opinion, just turns the House of Assembly into a mere rubber stamp, It is a sell out, Sir, as I indicated on Monday, to the pseudo intellectuals that the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Industrial Development and the Minister of Mines and Energy, have contracted on their staff, Sir, over the past three years, MR. DOODY: If I am one of them - MR, NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, in the last session of this House, an aml;!Ildment, an amendment was passed, Sir, to enable the government to appoint a president of the Treasury Board other than the Minister of Finance 1and we raised strong objection at that time, Sir, to this bill, because we felt, Mr. Speaker, that this would give too much power to the trio on the government side of the House, Sir, It would put too much power in the hands of the honourable the Premier, the honourable Minister of Industrial Development and the honourable Minister of Public Works and Services, the real power in this province .

The rest of us, Sir - no, not the Minister of Finance, not the Minister of Fisheries, the previous :finis ter of Finance, . that minister got the flick, Sir, got the flick, 115;;

Ma;ch 13, 1975 Tape no. 365 Page l - 111W MR. EVANS: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: He did not have the courage to face the rounds of negotiations that are coming up between all the various civil service groups,and besides that, he was not prepared to toe the line. The Hon. Premier wanted complete and full control, and he wanted his buddy, the Hon. Minister of Industrial Development at his right hand, and he wanted the Minister of Public Works and Services, the president of the council, at his left hand. MR. EVANS: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: And, Sir, there was a method in the Premier's madness, Sir, and we saw it, Mr.

Speaker, we saw it only recently, when the Power Corporation Biil came before this honourable House. Mr. Speaker, somehow or oaher, even some poor, old members of the press, of the media, of the hot lines,the open line prograDDes, still believe, Sir, they still think that the objectionable clause in that piece of legislation giving the power to this trio and the new Power Corporation, has been removed or is going to be removed1when in actual fact, Sir, the Premier, speaking for the government, and the Minister of Mines and Energy, stated emphatically in this honourable House that it was not going to be removed.

Will everybody please get that straight? It is not going to be removed. It is putting the authority to borrow $1.6 billion in the hands of this clique 1of this corporate monster that the government have created. Mr. Speaker, somehow or other, in the Throne Speech, Sir, when they announced this, they tried to leave the impression, Mr. Speaker, that this bill meant the development of the Lower Churchill when, in actual fact, it does not. It in no way, shape or form means the development of the Lower Churchill. Now, Mr. Speaker, who benefits by this concentration of power other than the trio themselves? Well, Mr.

Speaker, we are all aware, Sir, ·that big money, huge international corporations fronting for international bankers, have bank rolled-justs.bout every revolution. They have bank roiled war, Sir, They have bank rolled even President Nixon down in the United States. They have bank roilled the Bolshevik Rev~l ution, Sir, in Russia. 1154

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 365 Page 2 - mw AN HON. MEMBER: Great Throne Speech stuff. MR. NEARY: And that is what it is, great Throne Speech stuff, and I have not even got warmed up yet. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. DOODY: MR. MURPHY: MR. DOODY: MR. MURPHY: Come on boy: Bank rolled your election on Bell Island - We could not afford that. - with the Department of Social Services. My department paid for that. MR. NEARY: We all saw - MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please: MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAXER (Mr. Stagg) : Order, please: MR. NEARY: We all saw - MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible) • MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please!

The proceedings have b.egun to degenerate. The honourable member has three minutes left, and I suggest to_ all honourable members to my left that he be heard in silence for the remaining three minutes. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I thank Your Honour for trying to restoIE order on the government benches, Sir. They have over the past three years, Sir, downgraded this honourable House to the standards of a beer garden. MR. EVANS: (Inaudible) • MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I think it is about time that we tried to restore a little decorum in this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! 115S

3 March 13, 1975 Tape 365 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to conclude thi.s part of my remark, Sir, I would like to move an amendment to the Throne Speech, Sir. MR. EVANS: Another one? MR. NEARY: My amendment is as follows, Sir, to the motion - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please! Order, please! The honourable member is moving an amendment, and I would like to hear it. MR. NEARY: I have a copy for Your Honour, if the page would come and collect it, Sir.

BE IT RESOLVED that all words after "that" be deleted and the following words substituted therefore, "This House, Sir, regrets the failure of the present administration to introduce programmes to lessen the severe impact on our people of the rapidly rising cost of living, and regrets the shameful failure of the administration to introduce programmes aimed specifically at reducing the constantly increasing number of our people who are unemployed, and further regrets the complete disregard for instituting measures to deal effectively with the dramatic increases in the number of work stoppages through strikes and lockouts, both legal and illegal, and no concern or indication of any measures to research the rising tide of vandalism and criminal activity on the upsurge daily in urban areas throughout Newfoundland and Labrador." AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, if I may? Did I understand the honourable member to say he is going to amend the Throne Speech, that he has got the audacity to amend the speech given here by the Lieutenant-Governor? What? AN HON. MEMBER: Her Majesty's Gracious Speech. MR. MURPHY: Is that an actual fact, Sir? I would like to get that straight. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MURPHY: What, going to amend the Throne Speech? God help us alihighty, a traitor put him out! Put him out, Sir. 115~

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 365 4 MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please! AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please! The honourable member's time has expired, and in view of the fact that there are a significant number of points raised in the honourable member's proposed amendment, I am not going to rule on it at this time, but I will make a ruling sometime, hopefully, later on today. _MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I intend to speak on the amendment, Sir. This is my intention 1 to carry on, Sir.

This is traditional in this honourable House that when there is an amendment made, Sir, that the speaker who moves the amendment has the right then to speak on that amendment so would Your Honour like an adjournment' . for - incidentally, I might point out - MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): The honourable member - MR. NEARY: - I might point out to Your Honour that this is a similar ~ndment that has been made over the last two or three years so there are no complications. It is straight forward. But Your Honour may need a few minutes to go out and consider it. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): That is correct, yes.

The honourable member is quite correct and if the amendme~t is in order, he does have the right to continue, and I will adjourn for a few minutes to consider it. HOUSE RECESSED MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Some honourable members wished to speak to 1 ·I t:. / .a..l ""' i

March 13, 1975 Tape 366 IB-1 a point of order before I adjourned, and I will allow them to do so now if they wish. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, the point of order I was going to raise was that the honourable gentleman from Bell Island did not specify what kind of an amendment he was making and to what. For example, I heard him say he was amending the Throne Speech. Now, I understand he can amend a motion to adopt the Throne Speech, but he cannot amend the Throne Speech. Number two, with regards to my point of order, was the fact that there is no seconder to his motion. I understand there has to be a seconder. MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. That is rather frivolous. The honourable House, the Speaker, knows what I am moving the amendment to. As a matter of fact, I did not even have to refer to the Throne Speech at all. All I had to do was say I am moving an amendment seconded by my colleague, the member for Twillingate. MR. MORGAN: You did not mention his name. There was no seconder. MR. NEARY: That would have been it, Your Honour. Mr. Speaker, you will remember the interruptions that were coming from the opposite side of the House, Sir, when I was moving my amendment.

I would submit, Your Honour, that the amendment - well, I mean, there is no argument about it, Mr. Speaker, the amendment is in order and that it is. Why argue about it? MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, it was I actually who rose to a point of order. I did not interrupt the speaker at that time because I was just here flabbergasted to think that any member of this House would take it upon himself to amend the Gracious Speech delivered by His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor. I remember the member for St.

Mary's did that at one time, and the then Premier, Premipr Smallwood, I thought he was going to leave the building through the roof. I was expecting to ~ee an armed guard come in and take the honourable member away and incarcerate him immediately without even a trial. You know, treason, and we cannot accept that type of thing, Sir. The only thing you can can do is just reject it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, Your Honour knows full well - 1158

March 13, 1975 Tape 366 MR. MURPHY: Your Honour is not supposed to guess what - _MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we should not be wasting the time of the House on such frivolous matters. Your Honour knows full well when I moved the amendment it was perfectly in order. I did not even have to mention the motion or the Address-in-Reply or the Speech From the Throne. All I had to do was say, Your Honour I am moving an amendment. That is it. IB-2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, to the best of my knowledge the amendment was not seconded. To my memory the amendment was not seconded.

I believe such an amendment has to be seconded when made. MR. NEARY: To that, Mr. Speaker. Your Honour knows full well when he left the Chair that there were interruption _s coming from all sides of the House. Your Honour, I know they would like to have closure in this House. They would like to be able to shut me up, Your Honour, but Your Honour knows full well that when you make an amendment or when you move a motion, that it is automatically seconded by one of your colleagues. You do not have to - MR. -MURPHY: Ask "Roger", he will support it. MR. NEARY: Do not be so childish and foolish. MR.

SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! Much as I would like to rule in favour of the honourable member, and I would really like to rule in favour of the honourable member because - MR. NEARY: Oh, come off it now. Do not be a - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The motion as it was given to me is quite properly framed and it is a motion to amend the Address-in-Reply. However, the honourable member did not have a seconder for his motion. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is nonsense of the worst sort and partiality of the worse kind. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

NEARY: I guarantee you that, Your Honour, that we have no intention here of putting up with it. Your Honour left the Chair before I got c chance to name my seconder. Your Honour left the Chair - get the ta~~~ 1159

March 13, 1975 Tape 366 and play the tapes. MR. SPEAKER (ST.AGG): Order, please: The honourable member did not have a seconder. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have seven. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! IB-3 MR. NEARY: I have seven seconders and Your Honour is being partial. MR. SPEAKER )STAGG): Order,please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh come on! MR. NEARY: Yes, I will be expelled on that but there is no way you are going - - - _MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there is a seconder. There is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, There are seven seconders.

Your Honour better go and get the tapes because Your Honour cleared out of the Chair before I got a chance to finish my amendment as a matter of fact. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! The honourable member first of all - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! Now, this has blown up into - MR. NEARY: This is a pretty serious matter, MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): It is a very serious matter, yes. The honourable member has said some things that are rather intemperate. The honourable member did not frame his amendment properly.

First of all he said that he was attempting to amend the Throne Speech 1which is irregular and it is unheard of, Secondly, the honourable member did not name a seconder which is equally - _MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, are you trying to get back on me for that question I put on the Order Paper yesterday about the legal fees out in Western Newfoundland for the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation that Your Honour is ripping off? I want the Speaker back in the Chair. Let us get the Speaker back. 1160

March 13, 197 5 TApe 366 MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! Order, please! MR. MURPHY: Throw him out. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! MR. NEARY: Go ahead, throw me out. Sure, call in the police. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am perfectly in order. I stand on my constitutional rights in this honourable House. I challenge Your Honour to have me removed from the House. MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! I have no intention of engaging - MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please!

IB-4 I have no intention of engaging in a long argument with the honourable member. MR. NEARY: Do not hide behind the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Or course, the honourable member's remarks with reference to the Chair impugn the integrity of the Chair and accordingly Mr. Neary, you are named by the Chair and you are asked to withdraw while this Chamber considers what punishment or what penalty if any will be envoked. MR. NEARY: That is the action of a coward and a partisan politician who is not fit - you are not fit to be Deputy Speaker of this honourable House. Get the Speaker back in the House.

You are not fit to be De}>1lty Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (STAGG): Order, please! MR. NEARY: What a coward and a louse. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, as a backbencher,.! will not say with pleasure, I make a motion, Mr. Speaker, that the honourable gentleman from Bell Island be expelled from this House for at least three days based on the following facts. That the honourable gentleman is now expelled from the House by being named by the Speaker, number one. Number two, Mr. Speaker, he stands on his feet and points and says you are partisan. 1161

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 366 Page 5 MR. NEAR! : Yes, and a coward. MR. MORGAN: Number two, he stands on his feet while you are standing and speaking and calls you a coward. MR. NEARY: That is right. MR. IDRGAN: That kind of disrespect for the Chair of this Assembly must · not be allowed. MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: Go and forget - Must not be allowed. (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER·(Mr. Stagg): Order, please! MR. NEARY: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER· (Mr. Stagg}: Order, please! Would the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the honourable member from the Chamber, please. MR. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, I move that the Hon. ,Member for Bell Island be suspended from the House for five sitting days. SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Is there a seconder for the motion? MR. CROSBIE: There is no motion only a - SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): It is moved by the Hon. Minister of Fisheries and seconded by the Member for Bonavista South that the Member for Bell Island be suspended from the sittings of the House of Assembly for a period of five sitting days. CAPT. WINSOR: May I? The Hon.

Member for Bonavis~a South already made a motion suspending the member - MR, MORGAN: CAPT. WINSOR: MR. MORGAN: QAPT. WINSOR: You want to see a motion made. No, you made the motion. Point of order. And now the Hon. Minister of Fisheries makes another motion. Should not the Member for Labrador South's motion be dealt with first? MR, OTTENHEIMER: If I may to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. As I understand it, the Member for Bonavista South was speaking on a matter of privilege with reference to the remarks of the Hon. Member for Bell Island, 1162

March 13, 1975 6 and was putting forward a suggestion. Actually the substantive motion has, by our rules, to be made by the House Leader or somebody acting on his behalf. The only motion in order now is the one put by the House Leader, _MR. WOODWARD: If I may speak to that point of order. I think we should, before we dispense with this motion, we should get the tapes. The Member for Bonavista South said, I move that the Member for Bell Island be suspended from this House for three days. I think tha.t motion should be dealt with first or withdrawn in the House. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, the rules of the House state that such a motion has to be made by the House Leader, the Government Rouse Leader . In this case, my motion was out of order. I am now seconding the motion made by the House Leader. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Order, please! The Ron. Member for Bonavista South was in the process of making a motion; however, there was no seconder named to his motion either, so consequently, the only valid motion which is before the Rouse, is the motion made by the Hon. House Leader, the Minister of Fisheries, which has been seconded by the Hon. Member for Bonavista South.

That is the motion which is presently before the House. 116~

March 13, 1975. Tape 367 RH - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): Those in favour, "aye". Those opposed, "nay". In my opinion the "ayes" have it. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. THOMS: Oh yes, it is debatable. MR. SIMMONS: The Chairman did not permit debate. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Inaudible. MR. DUNPHY: Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stagg): The honourable Member for St. George's. MR. DUNPHY: I take pleasure in rising in this honourable House to offer a few comments. MR. SPEAKER (Stagg): Order, please! Order, please! Order, please! Sorry to interrupt the honourable Member for St.

George's, but I think it is appropri~te that as we continue this afternoon's proceedings) which unfortunately took a very sad turn some ten minutes ago, and certainly is not something which this House should be proud of and it is certainly something, I think, that we should all look very seriously at. I will, while ·I am in the Chair for the rest of the afternoon, and certainly probably for the rest of the session 1 be very vigilant towards any mumbled remarks or any remarks whatsoever that impugn the integrity of the Chair and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the occupant of the Chair.

I did detect certain of these remarks emanating from, I know the honourable member, but I will say remarks from members sitting to my right and they will be dealt with in the proper manner. The Member for St. George's. MR. DUNPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been sitting in this House some seven or eight sitting days and I have been observing and listening to co11m1ents from members of the opposition in regards to the recent Throne Speech.

I have heard the Throne Speech delivered in this honourable House and I am pleased to say the proposals put forward by my government over the next year are acceptable and 116ti

March 13, 1975. Tape 367 RH - 2 encouraging to this member. If I may regress a little bit and go back to the days when I was seeking election in the District of St. George's, I recall very vividly the many things, the lack of many things that my district suffered from~and was looking forward to a chance to participate and act in the new government which I was sure of that particular time was going to be formed in this Province, the new Conservative Government of Frank D.Moores.

Now, Throne Speeches as a rule, whether we speak of the recent one of this session or in the past 1 generally reflect what a government proposes and will do in the coming months and years ahead. I have heard many connnents from the opposite side referring to this government as a do-nothing government. Mr. Speaker, this riles me because I feel that these are misleading statements, actually downright lies which are contrary to the rules of the House and are misleading the people of the Province. MR. SPEAKER (Stagg): Order, please!

I think the honourable member is on a rather dangerous tact there when he is · speaking of lies. Maybe the honourable member might not expand on that too much further. MR. DUNPHY: Very well, Your Honour, merely trying to make a point Hy point is this. The proof of what has been proposed from year to year is to be found and known in a member's district. I represent the District of St.

George's and I assure that honourable gentleman over there I will be representing it again 1and he who is making the smart conments at this particular time is one of the very people who has been complaining that he is getting nothing done in his district. Well, let me tell that honourable gentleman something. When I came into my district after twenty-three years of Liberal administration there was little or nothing. I am happy to report today that we are about ninety per cent towards having the finest transportation netword in the Province within the district. Our communications are now complete.

We have a recreation centre now being erected in the Town of Stephenville Crossing. We are presently starting a new stadium in the District of St. George's in St. George's. Those are 116~

March 13, 1975. Tape 367 RH - 3 just two items for starters. Last year there was twenty-eight miles of pavement laid in my district. You ·call that do-nothing? That is a small start and we will go further ahead. 116ti

March U, 1975 Tape 368 IB-1 That particular honourable gentleman has referred to a great industry, particularly fanning, that is going nowhere in this province. God knows, Mr. Speaker, we have many problems in the fanning industry, but we have made some very great strides over the last three years. Never before in our history has it been known where any individual who is interested in farming, has it ever been so easy for him to get started. It was only three of four years ago when the maximum amount of assistance one could get in fanning was $3,000.

That had to be spread into many areas, like livestock, land cultivation and so on. Today at the provincial level one can get up to $30,000. It is a long way from $3,000. That is the difference between the then and the present administration. There is also fanning today and my district is reaping the benefits 1as other parts are also I hope. Capital assistance_grants - never before have farmers been able to go out and make purchaaes of the necessary implements that they need to cultivate the soil. This is another big stride forward. I was worried about this.

The honourable gentleman from the other side, Bonavista North, referred to land banks. Well, I think we have found a better approach than machinery banks or t.ool banks, equipment banks. Now, we are making cash available. They can go out and purchase the necessary machinery and equipment. This is a long way forward. This is not a do-nothing government. This is something that has been done, that is concrete, progressive and it is on•going. For many years forestry in my district, the harvesting of the forestry crops, other than what the Bowater people were taking, was more or less at a standstill. Not so today.

The government with the beginning, start-up of that great venture there, Stephenville, the Linerboard ,Mill, has created much activity in and around my district. Many people are employed. They bave provided for the people of the West Coast,partially through this particular development but for other means, for other reasons, many miles of access road. For many years the priro~ 1 -ls·· .... L I

March 13, 1975 ·Tape 368 IB-2 timber in our province was rotting at the stump. It was inaccessible. It could not be reached. It was high graded by earth. P.aper companies, I suppose it might sound all right to them to ao this. This high grading depleted a lot of fore.st lands. A lot of it rotted on th.e stump. It fell down and was useless to anybody. This govern111ent through proper planning, giving it top priority, has seen fit to set up a Forest Management Programme to make sure forests are utilized and properly distributed. When one th inks about pulp - MR. WOODl.!A.'ID: Mr.

Speaker, 1 am sure tnat the honourable member's words of wisdom are very encouraging f or this province but we do not have a quorum in the House, Mr. Speaker. MR. DUNPHY: Are you rising on a point of order? If not, sit down. MR.. SPEAKER: Cal 1 in the meoibers. 1168

March 13, 1975 Tape 369 (Afternoon) PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER: Would the Clerk count the House please? There is a quorum. The Hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege. I want to uoint out to this honourable House that it was agreed earlier this afternoon with members of the Opposition opposite that since the Select Committee on Fisheries, Inshore Fishery was meeting at 4:30 that I suggested to them that we agree not to have quorum calls as long as there is a respectable number in the House. Despite that agreement, Mr. Speaker, we see what just happened.

I just want to point it out to the House. MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for St. George's. MR. DUNPHY: Mr. Speaker, before the interruption the point I was trying to make was this; it was not too many years ago when we here in Newfoundland, particularly in the Western part of Newfoundland, imported about ninety per cent of our lumber needs.

Because of the programmes put forvard by the Department of Forestry, and Rural Development today in Western Newfoundland - I cannot speak for the Central and Eastern areas 1other members probably c_ould give that information - but speaking with lumber dealers on the West Coast as only of two or three months ago their imported requirements are down to ten and fifteen per cent. Now this is a direct result of government programmes of a so-called do-nothing government.

When one thinks of this remarkable recovery in the amount of workers required to bring this about one cannot say, one cannot even think that that is the results of the work of a do-nothing government. I am very proud to be part of a government that can do so much in such a short time. The honourable gentleman has been knocking that he cannot get anything done. It makes one wonder why he would seek election in his district because if be cannot get anything done in his district I would say that responsibility lays in the lap of the individual, of the Member for Bonavista South - AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible.

MR.DUNPHY: I would probably reply to the honourable member if be were speaking from his seat. Since he is not speaking from his sert 1169

:March 13, 1975 Tape 369 (Afternoon) PK - 2 I will ignore it. Mr. Speaker, beginning shortly in my district we will be starting to build a senior citizens home to accommodate eighty­ four senior citizens. To build such a facility it will run approximately ~1.2 million. Now without the aid and the encouragement of my government, this Conservative Administration, that would never have been given a thought to.

Not are we only going to be able to take care of our senior citizens but in a facility of this nature it is going to take a lot of people to run it, administer it, take care of it, and take care of the people 9 Consequently we are going to have employment. We are going to have empl~yment there for approximately forty-five or fifty people. This is another great stride forward by the District of St. George's through the provincial government. So you know when .I hear all these negative type thoughts that come across the floor it revolts me\to say the least.

Because I know, and I am sure each and every m=bers knows who is working on behalf of his district,they are getting something done. And they know that this is a progressive type government in the true sense of the word. We have witnessed again here this afternoon disrespect for the Chair of this Ho~se, the people's House, presided over by the Speaker who ;!.s the people through us. And it makes one wonder why some honourable members would call themselves honourable members. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear! !-m. DUNPHY: ------ Mr.

Speaker, I think it is time that the word honourable is put back to mean exactly what it implies. And I think this government will have to do it. Not only that, but they have put back 1 •l - ~ 0 .., ]. I

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 370 NM - 1 government in its true sense, the government. And I feel sure in the remainder of the time that is left in this particular mandate that we will continue to do a good job. I heartily endorse the Throne Speech. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Social Services. HON. A. J. MURPHY1 Minister of Social Services: Mr. Speaker, I have looked forward to having a few words on this Address in Reply and the gracious speech delivered by His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor, Sir.

I looked forward to it very, very anxiously, Sir, because I am one, Sir, who came into this honou~able House in 1962, Sir. I have been in this House now some thirteen years. But, Sir, never in all that time, have I had as I have today, reason to crawl out of this House, Sir, because I also must share, must share the absolute, disgraceful conduct of a so-called honourable member of this honourable House, Sir. Mr.

Speaker, before I get into the few words that I do have to say, I would like very seriously to extend my congratulations in co-operation with the other members of this honourable House, Sir, to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, Mr. Gordon Winter, a name, Sir, that has been connected with the development of this province for so many years 1and to his lovely lady,•Sir, who accompanied him here on that opening day.

I would also like, Sir, to congratulate my honourable colleague from Bay de Verde and the honourable Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Member for Port au Port in aquitting themselves so nobly and so gentlemanly on that opening day, Sir, before people that you yourself,invited to attend the opening of this honourable House. Mr. Speaker, I feel, .quite frankly, that today is a very black day in the history of the Parliament of our wonderful province of Newfoundland. Perhaps if not exceeding in utter disgrace the actions of the Leader of the Opposition on another occasion, Sir, when 1171

March 13, 1975 he dared, when he dared defy MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Tape No. 370 NM - 2 Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I would love to participate in the debate in which the minister is now leading. I would be delighted to have a discussion o.n that subject but otherwise I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, he is very much out of order in terms of the Address in Reply. MR. SPEAKER: Before the honourable Member for Hermitage rose, I was about to interrupt the honourable member. I am sure we are all aware of the two incidents 1 perhaps . to which the honourable member is referring.

Since they have been dealt with in this honourable House, I would certainly appreciate it if honourable members when speaking perhaps would not make any other reference to them. They are matters which already have been dealt with. MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I have sat in this House for thirteen years and the Address in Reply, Sir, covers every phase, every phase of life in this province of ours, Sir. It is the most far ranging - MR. SIMMONS: Point of order, Sir, point of order - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Mr.

Speaker, there is a proper procedure for questioning the Speaker's ruling and I suggest the minister either appeal it in a proper manner or get on with .his speech. He is questioning your ruling, Mr, Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ·Order, please! MR. MURPHY: What was the ruling? I did not hear any ruling. MR. SPEAKER: The Chair certainly at this point, does not interpret the honourable minister's comments as challenging a ·ruling made by the Chair but certainly if it feels that he is it will not hesitate to call him to order. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: Go back to your play pen 1boy. MR. MURPHY: Mr.

Speaker, I do not know frankly what the future of this 1 1 ·· •'.J .... ( t..

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 370 NM -3 honourable House is. We have come here, Sir, we formed the government after some twenty-three years of dictatorship. We tried, Sir, to the best of our ability, this government of ours, to restore not only to this honourable House, Sir, but to the people of the province, some form of democratic procedure, to give them the right, Sir, The honourable Premier bent over backwards, Sir, bent over backwards to try, to try to make the procedure of this House, Sir, far easier for the Opposition.

But as I said at the time, Sir, you could not deal with people who refused to co-operate with you, Sir. We have witnessed in the past three sessions of this House, Sir, conduct, conduct that 1 as I said earlier, Sir, must spread over to all of us, Sir, in the way the members of the Opposition have addressed themselves, Sir, to the business of this province. As far as Mr. Neary is concerned, Sir, and I use his name because he is no longer, Sir, a member of this honourable House - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

One member when referring to another member should refer to him by his rightful capacity. The honourable Member for Bell Island may have been suspended for a number of sitting days but he is certainly still a member of this Legislature . MR. MURPHY: I will accept your ruling, Sir, but I understand that once a member is suspended from this honourable House, he renounces, renounces all the benefits and everything else that goes with this honourable House, Sir. I may be wrong.

But that was my understanding through the years, Sir, and it would be a very, I think a very - something that perhaps could be checked out, but he is suspended from the House, Sir. He cannot sit in his seat, the House at the present time is vacated for five days and he is no longer an M.H.A., basically 1173

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 370 NM - 4 he cannot use that title, Sir, because this House, the members of this House, took that privilege away from him today. But I will not argue the point. I will just say, that the culmination today, for the Member for Bell Island, Sir, is only to be expected and I look back to the election of 1962, Sir, when I was elected, and that same member was elected in the District of Bell Island.

At that time, Sir, there was a certain gentleman doing some cartoons for the PC Party and a particular one dealing with that member depicted a huge barrel with the little head of the member peering over it and the caption was, they are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel, and I say, Sir, that has been proved. Only today the member referred to this government making a beer garden, mak~ng a beer garden out of this honourable House of Assembly, Sir.

I was in the beer business for some years and I know there are taverns that would bar the Member for Bell Island from ever going in again with the conduct he got on with today. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The Chair made a ruling, if you wish, there a few minutes ago that the incident which happened earlier today has been dealt with by the House and would just as soon that honourable members speaking would not make any reference to it, as much as perhaps they may feel like doing so. The honourable Minister of Social Services. MR. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, if I might make a submission in connection with this? AsI understand it, any member can speak on any topic he wants in the Address in Reply ' to "the Speech from the Throne . The honourable gentleman from S~. John's Centre is addressing himself to the behaviour of members in the House, or the one particular member. Surely it is hard to see how that is not relevant when on the debate in Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne you can speak on any subject at all that concerns the public. 1174

March 13, 1975 Tape 371 MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, perhaps we will deal with matters more palletible. Perhaps we will deal with matters, Sir, that pertain more to the welfare of this province, to the people of this province, Sir, and particularly at this particular time to the people of St. John's Center, the district that I so proudly represent, Sir, for so many years. IB-1 Mr. Speaker, we listen to comments that are made by members of the Opposition about thia do-nothing government: they have done nothing they have not done this; they have not done that; they have not done something else. Mr.

Speaker, here is something a very handsome gentleman, but we will just forget the picture. The time has come,this says. This was our great election when the people of this province, Sir, were emancipated from a rule that had downgraded the policies of our people, Sir, had brought us to a level of governing, Sir, that was almost unbearable for a great many people. At that time many points were set out, Sir, which I will .deal with, and I think they are all dealt with in the Speech From the Throne. Little did our government feel when we were put into power the mess that we had to deal with, Sir.

Ordinarily we take on a job, we take it to start from scratch where we can develop our own ideas. We go from "A" right through. Mr. Speaker, when we were in office for a very short while we discovered that not only could we start from that day, but we had to go back to last year to clean up the mess that was left behind by the previous administration. I mention, Mr.

Speaker, in passing now - I do not wish to go into it at any particular length at this time because I will deal with it very thoroughly in the Budget Speech, Sir and when my estimates are before the House - just in passing, Sir, one of the great clean-up jobs had to be done with the deparbnent of which I am very proud to be the minister, Sir, and which has brought so many benefits to the people of this province since we have been in power. That is the Department of Social Services, formally the Department of Welfare. 1 ·! ·1 . ... .L ~

March 13, 1975 Tape 371 Mr. Speaker, when I hear the member for Bell Island dare criticize our administration, do you wonder I had to have an ulcer out last year? Do you wonder? A man who brought that great IB-2 department, that great human department, Sir, to its very knees,destroyed the moralejust about of every member of that department, Sir, who went - and facts have been proven, Sir.

I have them documented through a commission that is set up - who used a quarter of a million dollars, Sir, of the funds of this province, of the ftmds of the monies of the people, Sir, to sperid as a means for a campaign ftmd on Bell Island to get himself elected. It is documented, Sir. The document is there. It should be preferred reading f~r people who listen to the slurs, the innuendos and the actual filth that is generated out of the mouth of that particular member, Sir.

He cannot stand up in this honoural-le House, Sir, but he insinuates that everybody on this side is a crook, we have our hands in the till, we are dealing with our own particular friends, Sir. It was bad enough, God knows, Sir, with the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Bell Island, and now we have a new edition, the genius himself, Sir, the member for Hermitage. I wish they would put him in a Hermitage and lock the door. Mr. Speaker, we have more serious things to do, Sir, than listen to the tripe that originates in their minds.

I often say to myself, Sir, and I have reached an age now where possibly I should be getting a little mellowed. I am getting on the shady side. My three score and ten I have been promised, Sir. I am now on the ten. When I listen, Sir, to some so-called educated people I have said, God guard thee Newfoundland for sure. I say that, Sir, in all sincerity. When we hear the tripe, the mischief that generates - today, Sir, today I will say is the culJllination of a petition presented in this honourable House, Sir, by the gentleman from Hermitage.

For the great majority of names, Sir, - I have brought 1t to my department - are tmiversity students. MR. SIMMONS : Inaudible. 1 ·: "/ ' . ...... t>

March 13, 1975 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR, MURPHY: I say that, Sir - _MR, SIMMONS: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Tape 371 IB-3 MR. MURPHY: I say that, Sir, but where the petition originated, Sir, we still do not know. The incident was closed, Sir, and I must refer to it.

A few short days ago by a statement, not from some ordinary Joe representing the United Church, Sir, not from even the Chairman of the Board, Sir, but, as I said today, Sir, from the President of the United Church Conference himself, and they dare insinuate, Sir, that he had ulterior motives, motives other than for the betterment of these nineteen children, Sir, As I said at that time, Sir, and I still say - MR. SUIK>NS: Stop twisting the truth, boy. Stop twisting. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The Chair would like to remind the honourable member for Hermitage that several times it has called order, and he should let the honourable Minister of Social Services be heard in silence. MR. MORPHY: For ignorance is a bliss, they always said, Sir, it is a folly to be wise. I was on the matter, Sir, of what this House can expect, what the people of this province can expect. We hear the member for Bell Island over the past few weeks, as a matter of fact, over the past few months, is so concerned with vandalism, what is happening to our children, what is happening here and there, Sir.

We see what happened in this honourable House today, Sir, the greatest vandal of them all. A few short months ago, Sir, last year actually,there was an invasion of the privacy of the eighth floor. The Premier's office, Sir, where a bunch of people came in demanding to see the Premier, pounding walls, turning over ashtrays, and whose picture came out, Sir? None other but the great campaigner to cure juvenile delinquency, Sir. 11TI

March 13, 1975 Tape 371 IB-4 I believe, Mr, Speaker, and I think m.y honourable colleague who spoke just before nie expressed the sam.e concern-, as far as this honourable House is concerned. Wherefore and whither tending, that was a headline that was used ba!=lt in the days of · C01Dlllission of Govermnent, Sir, about this province of ours • . AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: We know enough about this. Tell us what they are going through .l!iid what they are going to do. MR. MURPHY: UnfortUnately, Sir, l' am. not a ~eacher. I cannot teach the m.em.ber for Labrador North to read.

I am am.azed 1quite frankly, that someone from Labrador, from. the other areas, that elected Liberals in the last election, Sir, that they have the gall, the audacity to say how backwards their qistricts are after being represented by Liberals for twenty- three years, Sir. Then they say, when are you going to do something. We were not in power three m.onths but they expected great changes. Frank Moores is the Premier, Sir, not Mandrake the magician AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: The do-nothing Premier. MR. MURPHY: The do nothing _Pr~er. Very good. The glib m,outh. When are you going to put air'strips in Labrador?

When are you going to do this-after twenty-three years, Sir. The same m.em.ber was Minister of Labrador Af~airs, the sam.e m.ember. Big deal! Labrador Affairs, big deal! 1 1 . . CJ ... ..!. Io

March 13, 1975. Tape 372 RH - 1 ~isits the district every six months or something big deal. The Member for St. Barbe North tourist, another tourist. Mr. Speaker, how does anybody, any member of this honourable House, how do they expect their district to get the benefits ~hat are due them if they only drop in every now and then 1and in a lot of cases have a guide to show them around. I think, Sir, that the time has come, the time has come again when this honourable House must look at the members that constituted this do-nothing government, Sir, do-nothing, did nothing.

Let us look at the social benefits, Sir, and the Member for Bell Island II 11 scoffed at the word social because he does not understand, Sir, the depth and the meaning of social. When the Member for Bonavista South, Sir, was speaking in the debate, he talked about not only the economic factors, Sir, but the social factors. It is like the Department of Welfare when we took it over, Sir. We are not a dole office anymore.

Anybody, but anybody could pass out a check but it is the social implications, Sir, the way our people live, the needs, child welfare - what a record, Sir, what a record this depart­ ment has against any province of Canada, Sir, in child welfare, the care of children, Sir. Some 4,200 children, Sir, come under the wing, if you like, of Mr. Frank Simms, my Director of Child Welfare, Sir. Very good 0 Someone can stand up and say 1 what about this four, five, six or seven, Sir, but I will guarantee this honourable House, Sir, and through you, Mr.

Speaker, to the people of this Province, they need not worry, Sir, about these children in our care. They are getting, Sir, the very best and I challenge anybody, anybody but anybody, Sir, to deny that statement. I challenge them to do so, Sir. You know, Mr. Speaker, we can discuss this thing. We can stand up there for political purposes, Sir, but let us not forget, we are discussing the life of one of God's creatures, Sir, a small child, a small child, Sir, and when my department, Sir, my director takes on 1i ·19

March 13, 1975. Tape 372 RH - 2 an obligation, Sir, he is the father and the mother to that child. I will repeat again, Sir, I am horrified, absolutely horrified to find that media dared enter into this place we speak of, Sir, and do an interview with children of six, seven, eight and nine years old. How low can we get, Mr. Speaker, how low can we get! Where are our sense of values, Sir?

As I look around to this side of the honourable House and I look at these people, most cases, in all cases, I suppose, out­ standing citizens, men who have been charged, al.most charged to their faces, .Sir, with obtaining money belonging to the people of this .Province, insinuated, Sir, that we are looking after our friends, that we used money, Sir, paid legally into our accounts, Sir, here, into revenue to be used to further our own ends, Mr. Speaker. I regret that, Sir. I regret this type of thing is happening. Politics, like everything else, Sir, fair game, but for .God sake, Mr.

Speaker, and I say this in all seriousness, do not let us try to destroy _ honourable gentlemen on any side of this House, Sir, by impugning to them motives, Sir, that are not strictly honest. I ask that, Sir, and you, Mr. Speaker, in the Chair now, I apologize to you, Sir, and I deeply regret the insults that have been laid at your .door, Sir. I feel I should apologize because I am a sitting member with the other forty-one members in this House,· Sir, and I think we share it jointly for the conduct in this House.

I can look around this honourable House no~, Sir, and in places other than we are sitting an honourable member, Sir, who was a honourable member of this House, perhaps one of the most effective honourable members we had in this House, Sir, a great debater and everything else, Sir, and I know he will agree, Sir, with us and anybody who has sat in this House, Sir, that this is not the place, Sir, for filth. This is not the place for it, Sir. When I sat in this House for the first few years, Sir, I was almost afraid to come in.

This was an awesome place, not awesome in the way that I was frightened of anybody or anything, Sir, but we 1 -~ ;~ 0 ...... v

March 13, 1975. Tape 372 RH - 3 have something here, Sir, that we are trying to pass on, if you like, pass on to our children, Sir, and that is respect, Sir, respect for authority. You, Mr. Speaker, in that Chair now, represents to us our Lieutenant-Governor and through him, Sir, the Queen. You· are, Sir, you occupy, perhaps the highest office, the highest office, Sir, that any layman, if you like, could occupy, Sir. Again, Sir, I would like to thank you and thank the other Speaker, Sir, for what they are trying to do for us. I know it has been a difficult job, Sir. Why you stick it, I do not know.

Honest to heavens, I do not know. When you have to sit there, Sir, and take the type of stuff that comes from members of this House, I do not know how you stand it really. It is bad enough here, well 1 one of thirty-two, whatever it is, but you are there a target for everybody's abuse and unless you bow down, Sir, and crawl to fulfill someone's desires in this honourable House, Sir, you are being unfair. You know, as I said, I am getting a little bit over the hill now and I look back a great many years, Sir.

We did not have the advantages, Sir, of these days of great university education, Sir, the great numbers of us, but it is one thing we were taught which I think, Sir, no matter what any university, trade school or any­ thing, is the very basic of education, Sir, the very basis,and that is respect for others, respect for your fellow man. And when I see what has been happening here for the past couple of years, you know, I just shudder, you know. The Leader of the Opposition, Sir, never opened his mouth yet but with some kind of an insinuation that someone was cooking a deal or someone was doing something else.

I was at a meeting one night and this old gentleman out in one of the little outports said to me - I asked him what he thought, what the honourable Leader of the Opposition, how he was operating, what he tho~ght - and he said to me he reminded him of a weasel, Sir. He is the only one could poke his head out through two holes at one time and that has been his stand, Sir, in this honourable House and it has been brought t-0 1181

March 13, 1975. Tape 372 RH - 4 the attention of the neovle of this Province, Sir, that no ·stand has been taken on any matter, Sir. You !mow, we walk that tight rope, Sir, but, Sir, Newfoundland deserves better than that. Newfoundland deserves better than that, Sir. As I say, I do not want to get into vilifying or trying to degrade any individual in this honourable House, Sir.

They were all elected by someone, as I was elected by someone, but, Sir, as we look around the House and see the representation in this House and the districts, Sir, that are represented on both sides of the House, we sometimes wonder,· Sir, how did it happen? W-e have heard the members on the other side, Sir, tell us how backward the districts are­ communications, this type of thing, Sir, and now I can understand it. Perhaps these people, Sir, were not fully in touch with what was happening in the Province. Perhaps they were not.

I will not use the term that they were ignorant, but they might have been ignorant in a sense of what was happening in the Province because, as I say again, let us go through this Province of ours, let us pick the forty-one districts, Sir, and you will find that the districts with the most complaints today, the district with the least facilities today are still being represented by Liberals that they elected in 1949. The only thing that has changed are the faces ·and the names. 1182

March 13, 197S Tape 373 (Afternoon) PK - 1 I was one of three, Sir, with the honourable Member for St. John's East Extern, the Hon. Minister of Education,who sat over here, Sir, some of the members now in the House were sitting approximately, they had been sitting on this side, of course, at that time. They knew, Sir, what a task we had. We hear today complaints looking for help for research and everything else - this is something I will bring up a bit later with a suitable motion I hope, Sir, with the consent of the Minister of Finance to level things off, when the budget is being discussed.

We, Sir, were given the magnificent sum of $10,000 to run the Opposition Office, to pay salaries, for a stenographer, and a so-called researcher, to buy stamps, to do everything that pertained to operating an office, Sir. At that time we were not considered, I Sir, a part of this honourable House at all. We were just a group of three people that they provided about one hundred square feet of space to come in and have a chat. But things have changed, Sir. Things have changed. Another great mistake, in my opinion, Sir, of leaning over backwards - MR. CROSBIE: They would not let us hang our coats up. MR.

MURPHY: to try and treat people decent, Sir, who do not know what decency is. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. I should not say that, Sir, that is unparliamentary. Quite frankly it is unparliamentary. But I am at a stage today, Mr. Speaker, where the truth must be told. I say this now at this time that unless we all shape up, Sir, the people of this province ,rlll demand that we ship out. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. MURPHY: This Opposition ma~ not have too much trouble, Sir, to win the next election. They may win it by the Fall.

Because I know, and I look around again at the honourable members on this side of the House and I read the news, the media,where one expert writing for "The Evening Telegram" - I will not disclose his name

March 13, 1975 !ape 373 (Afternoon) PK - 2 hut his initials are W.C -~ who did in one of his columns tnm_um that members of this government, members of the cabinet had to hang on to "Frank Moores" - and this was the statement, Sir, and perhaps I should say the Hon. the Premier - to earn their livelihood. Mr. Speaker, in, all honesty es you look around - and I sit here next to my honourable colleague, a doctor, had to hang on to this government to earn $12,000 a year.

Let us look at any of the other gentlemen in here, legal or otherwise - and the press says you have to hang on to the Premier because you cannot make your living) you cannot earn a living any other way. I have listened, Mr. Speak.er, to some excellent speeches in this House this year. Some excellent speeches, down to earth speeches, Sir, ,_people who really spoke with feeling on matters that affected the people of this province, Sir. But all we hear there are some built- in moth:e, some ulterior motive that this government is out - I will not use the word - but to put the nails to someone.

You know, if I today wanted my picture on the front page of the newspapers, if I wanted to, Sir, to be the star cm "Hear and Now", on all the media, Sir, all I - have to say now is, it is time for Frank Moores to resign, and I would be a hero. I say this, Sir, because of the fact, that the press today use everything, every means - I do not. know why I do not know what we did to them, quite frankly - to try, to destroy, if you like, this government of ours. I refer, Sir, to an incident that happened a few short days ago when we were discussing a certain bill.

Three members of this House, Sir, three members of this government had the nerve, they had the right to stand up and criticize something in a bill, and iDm1ediately, Sir, they were heroes. And what was said in the paper at the time - they backed up the Leader of the Opposition. There was no credit given to any of these gentlemen, Sir, they spoke their own minds. There was no credit given either, Sir, to other members that perhaps went another way to talk to the minister concerned 1 and said, you know, 1184

March 13, 1975 Tape 373 (Afternoon) PK - 3 let us have a long hard look at this thing. But, Sir, how in H,eaven's name do you get your message across? We depend on the media, Sir, to put the message across Whether they do or not I do not know. Yesterday morning,for example, there was a write up on the giveaway of frozen potato chips,down at the Stadium parking lot,donated by a very generous firm of McCain's in Florenceville, New Brunswick. They paid all expenses to get it here. And the statement in "The Paily News" was that the pe_ople were not aware that this was happening.

I did go on three radio stations, Sir, to tell the people that this had been talked about for a week, But I do not own a newspaper, Sir. I do not own a radio station. I believe, Sir, that newspapers and radio stations, television stations 1 are there for the good of the public, Sir, to serve the public, not to serve me or anybody else~but the public.

When it got out with the bit of publicity that I gave it 1for twenty minutes yesterday there was a line up down on that Stadium parking lot, and there was not one carton left - I am speaking here in this honourable House, Sir, I do not know if I will make the birth column in the morning or the obituary column. MR. SIMMONS: MR. MURPHY: You will never get your picture in the paper. Perhaps that is the truest word that gentleman ever spoke in his life. And I am not wanting to, Sir 0 As I say, you know, I am not too much concerned if I get my picture in the paper. It is old .hat to me, Sir.

I spent my life, Sir, when possibly I could have being going to University like the honourable member opposite 1 I spent my life doing useful things for the people of the province 1 perhaps engaged in youth movements and this type of thing, you know. But I might Jave regretted goint to university, Sir, if I had to turn out like the Member for Hermitage. It might have been the worst thing I ever did in my life, Sir. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear! MR. MURPHY: Really, and that is an actual fact, Sir.

Because I think quite frankly, and I say this, and I will just say it 1 he is only a young man yet, about half my age, I would think he is not to old yet to start to learn to be polite t~ be decent to people, Sir. 118::>

~larch 13, 1975 Tape 373 (Afternoon) You know, in all the books that we studied in school, Sir, the most important book that the ehristian BTothers,whom I had the honour of. being taught by ,had a little ,what you would call it - ·a penny book it was called "Etiquette" or ''Social Politeness", It was set out in that, -Sir, t he standard of how a man should live his life~ i-Tith all the great books, you can t~lk about Shakespeare you can talk about them all, Sir, but nothing contains the education that was into that little book. 1186 PK - 4

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 374 Page 1 - mw _MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, as I said, as I look around this honourable House, and as I look around me today in the world, I have come a long ways. I was not up to my elbows in pickle, like my honouzable colleague, the Minister of Industrial Development, and there is no prouder man, Sir, and I will say this, or no more capable man in this House, Sir. He, like me, Bir, had to get out and earn his living at an:early age. He was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR. MURPHY: He had to work, a lot like so many more, Sir.

And we hear today this government being run down, hauled down, for being dictators, because we dared withhold advertising from the great "Daily News", Sir. I do not know Uthe Department of Public Works did it or not, Sir. I do not know if they did it or not, Sir. When I look at that newspaper, Sir, it reminds me of Liberal headquarters. Quiee frankly, and I say this, if I had my way, Sir, I would not give them five cents worth of advertising, because, Mr.

Speaker, I say this, whether it is "The Daily News", or "The Evening Telegram", c.JON or CBC, they have an obligation to the people of this province, Sir, to tell the story as it is - MR. SIMtl>NS : MR. MURPHY: MR. SIMMONS: MR. MURPHY: MR. SDM>NS: MR. SPEAlCEII.: MR.. KORP1lY: MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. MURPHY: MR. SIMMONS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. SIMMONS: Digging your own grave, Ank. - and they are not doing it. Digging your grave. Do not worry about me brother, I will never dig my grave. Dig your grave - Order, please! I will guarantee you that. You are good at it. Order, please!

I will guarantee you that. (Inaudible). Order, please! (Inaudible) • 118"/

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 374 Page 2 - mw MR. MURPHY: Thanks be to God~ I am sixty-one, and I will never be the clown you are at thirty. _MR; SPEAKER: Order, please! On several occasions I have called order. The Member for Hermitage continued to talk across the House to members opposite. If he pursues that further, if he continues with it, the Chair will only have .to interpret it as being completely irresponsive to calls,from the Chair, and will have to take whatever action that follows. MR. MURPHY: MR. SPEAKER: .. left. MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Hon.

Minister of Social Services has five minutes ·B.oy, how times passes, and I have not even gotten into the subject that I wanted to talk about yet, Sir, and that is this do-nothing government. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear: Hear: MR. MURPHY: Lat us talk about it, Sir. Let us talk about it. Resource development for you, economic development for you, rural development for your community, and quality of life for your family, four headings, Sir, that pertain to the very heart of what is happening in this province of ours, Sir.

We knew, Sir, when we took over, and I do not wish to belabour the point, that we inherited, Sir, perhaps the greatest mess that was evf;!r inherited by any government 1except perhaps after Duplessis. AN HON • . MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MURPHY: What did we_do, Sir, what did we do to help the people of this province, Sir, not the contractors, not the beer parlours­ the people, Sir, the families of this province? What did we do to help them? In the first instance, Sir, we did as we had promised, We removed the sales tax, Sir, from children's clothing . Are the opposition against that? . Is that do-nothing?

What is the next big social move we made? We removed the sales tax, Sir, from fuel oil for home consumption. I do not think it applied to the commercial , did it Mr. Minister at that time? No. It

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 374 Page 3 - mw was just for home conaumption, eh, fuel oil. And then, Sir, we took over this department that I have the honour to be the minister for, Sir, and we brought, Mr. Speak.er, and the facts speak. for themselves, we brought some 80,000 people of this province, Sir, from the doors of destitution, and almost starvation, through no fault of their own, where today, our rates have increased from seventy to ninety per cent, in three short years, Sir. And then they dared to ask, what have you done? Mr. Speaker, one thought I would like to leave with all of us here, myself included.

Let ' us be honest. Do not let us try to mislead the people of this province, Sir. We can talk about promises, Sir. Promises are made but some are not kept, Sir. But for Heaven sake, Sir, do not let us go on radio or go to newspapers to deliberately try to mislead the people of thi.s province, Sir. It is not worth it, Sir. It is not worth it. Thanks be to God, and I will say that now, after thi.rteen years in this House, I do not think I have delibe1:ately tried to hurt anybpdy's character, because, you know, Kr.

Speak.er, there used to be an old saying, you know, he who stealeth my purse, steals trash, but he who taketh my good name, takes all. 1189

March 13, 1975 Tape no. 375 . Page l - mw MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for Twillingate. MR. GILLETT: Mr. Speaker, be~ause of the lateness of the hour, and because this is Thursday, I move the adfournment of the debate, if it is in order. MR. SPEAKER: It has been noted that the Hon. Member for Twillingate has adjourned the debate. As honourable members may be wondering if the rules say that by five o'clock I should inform the House what matters are to be debated at . the so-called late show at 5:30 well 1 there are no matters today. The Hon. Member for Bell Island did have a question to de~ate with the Hon.

Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment but because of previous incidents this afternoon, of course, this cannot now take place. That is the reason why really the honourable members were not informed, because there is ~eally now nothing to debate at 5:30. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, if we assume that it is five thirty now, I believe 1just to make clear the procedure 1that there is automatically a motion that the House adjourn until tomorrow afternoon. The government side will vote against that because we would like the House to meet tonight at eight o'clock.

If that motion is defeated, then the House will meet ag~in tonight at eight o'clock. So the government side will vote against the motion to adjourn until tomorrow afternoon. MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the House do now adjourn. Those in favour, "aye." Tho1;1e against "nay." The motion is defeated. I do now leave the Chair until eight o'clock tonight. 1190

March 13, 1975. The House resumed at 8:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 376 (Night) RH - l · MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! When we adjourned this afternoon, the honourable Member for Twillingate adjourned the debate. I recognize the honourable Member for Twillingate. MR. GILLETT: Mr. Speaker, I suppose we have had at least two-and- a-half hours respite from the tensions of the afternoon session. I hope that they have subsided after the most unfortunate episode this afternoon. Looking back over it, Mr.

Speaker, and I know that you do not want to hear any repetition of it, but I am inclined to think that it waa a very slight technicality which could have been 1and perhaps should have been overcome. Naturally, the nature of the amendment was such that it was only natural the members on the other side were going to graap the opportunity to rule it out of order. However, that is water under the bridge, Mr. Speaker, and we have to carry on with the business of the House.

It is rather difficult at this · time to divorce the Speech from the Throne from the budget 1having both in our possession before having disposed of the Speech from the Throne. But, however, Mr. Speaker, I shall try and refer very briefly to some of the sections and paragraphs and items in the Speech from the Throne. I see on the first page, Mr. Speaker, under the heading of "Some Baaic Goals and Objectives," you have (

a) and (b) -'' (

b) Social Services: My government will continue its policy of providing assistance at public expense to Newfoundlanders who through no fault of their own are unable to participate in gainful employment.'' I am wondering, Mr. Speaker, whether or not the government intends to relax its regulations 1191

March 13, 1975 Tape No. 377 NM - 1 as far as those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves on what we call long-term assistance. Now this is a question which I have raised in ·t'!le House before and I refer,natural~y, to the people in my district, being · a fishing area. I realize that there are people outside of, or within the interior of the country who are also on long-term assistance through no fault of their own.

But, in viewing the statement made by the honourable Minister of· Fisheries on March 7, he outlines the government's position with regard to re,;Jtrictions in the fishing industry or with fishing, not the industry actually but fishing. Apparently the policy of the government is that there be no restrictions on Newfoundlanders fishing to supplement their income. Now I realize, Mr. Speaker, that there has to be a dividing line somewhere.

But I still say that men who are handicapped, that is what' it amounts to actually, they are handicapped through some affliction which does not enable that man to earn a livelihood as he had when he was healthy. But he still has a certain amount of initiative. He still has a certain amount of energy and he is still able to supplement the inc?me which he receives from the government. In the case of most of the men in :my district, that would be fishing.

But because of the present government, the current government regulations, he is restricted in his ea~nings in the supplementing of his income I am just wondering, Mr. Speaker, if the government will take a good look at it. I trust that the Minister of Social Services will take a good look at the announcement being made by the, particularly for the fishing areas, by the Minister of Fisheries and the regulations as set out by his d