Manitoba Hansard — 2 June 2009 (Sitting 51B, 39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-51b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 51B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, June 2, 2009 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon.

Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

2531 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, June 2, 2009 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Please be seated. Routine proceedings; introduction of bills. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 35–The Municipal Conflict of Interest and Campaign Financing Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), that Bill No. 35, The Municipal Conflict of Interest and Campaign Financing Act, be now read a first time. Mr.

Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable minister for intergovernment affairs, seconded by the honourable minister for Agriculture and Food, that Bill No. 35, The Municipal Conflict of Interest Campaign Financing Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Mr. Ashton: This bill, Mr. Speaker, this very important bill, will introduce increased accountability in terms of municipal government. It follows from the Auditor General's report, and it brings in transparency an d disclosure in terms of municipal conflict-of-interest declarations. It also, Mr.

Speaker, will bring municipal elections in line with provincial and federal elections by banning union and corporate donations, restricting contributions in elections to residents of Manitoba, setting maximum contribution limits that reflect those in the city of limit–city of Winnipeg limit and also providing disclosure for campaign contributors. It reforms both conflict of interest and our municipal elections act. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Agreed and so ordered. Petitions. PETITIONS Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba's Premier and his NDP government have not recognized the issues of public concern related to Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. The WRHA is building an administrative empire at the expense of bedside care. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority needs to be held accountable for the decisions it is making. Health-care workers are being pressured into not being able to speak out no matter what the WRHA is doing or has done.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP government to call a public meeting, or call a meeting of the standing committee of the Legislature and to invite representatives of the WRHA to appear before it. Mr. Speaker, this is signed by T. Phillips, L. Mossop, E. Mossop and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Long-Term Care Facilities–Morden and Winkler Mr.

Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. Many seniors from the Morden and Winkler area are currently patients in Boundary Trails Health Centre while they wait for placement in local personal care homes. There are presently no beds available for these patients in Salem Home and Tabor Home. To make more beds in the hospital available, the regional health authority is planning to move these beds to personal care homes in outlying regions.

These patients have lived, worked and raised their families in this area for most of their lives. They receive care and support from their family and friends who live in the community, and they will lose

2532 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 this support if they are forced to move to distant communities. These seniors and their families should not have to bear the consequences of the provincial government's failure to en sure there are adequate personal care home beds in the region. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to ensure that patients who are awaiting placement in a personal care home are not moved to distant communities.

To urge the Minister of Health to consider working with the RHA and the community to speed construction and expansion of the long-term care facilities in the region. This is signed by Jacob Dyck, John Wiebe, Leonard Lern and many, many others. PTH 15 Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: In 2004, the Province of Manitoba made a public commitment to the people of Springfield to twin PTH 15 and the floodway bridge on PTH 15, but then in 2006, the twinning was cancelled.

Injuries resulting from collisions on PTH 15 continue to rise and have doubled from 2007 to 2008. In August 2008, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) stated that preliminary analysis of current and future traffic demands indicate that local twinning will be required. The current plan to replace the floodway bridge on PTH 15 does not include twinning and, therefore, does not fulfil the current nor future traffic demands cited by the Minister of Transportation.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Transportation consider the immediate twinning of the PTH 15 floodway bridge for the safety of the citizens of Manitoba. Signed by bus driver, Pat Hollingshead; bus driver, Ernie Hadaller; Brian Acott and many, many other Manitobans. Photo Radar Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for the petition: It is important to protect the safety of construction workers who are on the job by having reduced speeds in construction zones when workers are present. Provincial government handed out tickets to thousands of Manitobans who were driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones when there were no construction workers present. A Manitoba court has ruled that the reduced speed zones in construction areas were intended to protect workers and that the tickets that were given when no construction workers were present were invalid.

The provincial government has decided not to collect unpaid fines given to motorists who were ticketed driving the normal posted speed limit when no construction workers were present. The provincial government is refusing to refund the money to many hardworking, law-abiding Manitobans who are already paid the fine for driving the regular speed limit in construction zone when no workers were present. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Attorney General (Mr.

Chomiak) consider refunding all monies collected from photo radar tickets given to motorists driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones when no workers were present. This petition is signed by Jack Folkett, Gertie Omilanow, MaryLou Michalyshen and many other fine rural Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Twinning of Trans-Canada Highway Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The six-kilometre stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway passing through Headingley is an

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2533 extremely busy stretch of road averaging 18,000 vehicles daily. This

section of the Trans-Canada Highway is one of the few remaining stretches of undivided highway in Manitoba and has seen countless accidents, some of them fatal. In its January 2009 budget, the federal government indicated it would work with the provincial government to cost share the improvements to this stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway. In the interests of protecting motorist safety, it is critical that the dividing of the Trans-Canada Highway in Headingley be completed as soon as possible. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request that the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr.

Lemieux) consider meeting as soon as possible with his federal counterparts to finalize the cost-sharing arrangements needed to move the twinning of the Trans-Canada Highway forward in order to ensure that the federal monies available for this important project do not lapse. To request that the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation consider making the completion of the dividing of the Trans-Canada Highway in Headingley in 2009 an urgent provincial government priority. And this is signed by Barb McCulloch, David White, Darren Glowatski and many other Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Petitions; committee reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Crown Corporations Third Report Mr. Daryl Reid (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the Third Report of the Standing Committee on Crown Corporations. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Crown Corporations presents the following– Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on CROWN CORPORATIONS presents the following as its Third Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in the Legislative Building: • November 21, 2005 (4 th Session – 38 th Legislature) • October 25, 2007 (1st Session – 39th Legislature) • December 19, 2007 (2 nd Session – 39 th Legislature) • June 1, 2009 Matters under Consideration • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2005 • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2006 • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2007 • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008 Committee Membership Committee Membership for the November 21, 2005 meeting: • Mr.

AGLUGUB (Vice-Chairperson) • Ms. BRICK (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. DEWAR • Mr. FAURSCHOU • Mr. HAWRANIK • Mr. JHA • Mrs. MITCHELSON • Mr. PENNER • Mr. REID • Mr. SCHELLENBERG Committee Membership for the October 25, 2007 meeting: • Hon. Mr. ASHTON • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. FAURSCHOU

2534 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 • Ms. HOWARD (Vice-Chairperson) • Mr. JHA • Ms. MARCELINO • Mr. MCFADYEN • Mr. PEDERSEN • Mr. REID (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. SELINGER • Mr. SWAN Committee membership for the December 19, 2007 meeting: • Mr. ALTEMEYER • Ms. BRAUN • Mr. CALDWELL • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. GOERTZEN • Ms. MARCELINO (Vice-Chairperson) • Mr. MCFADYEN • Mr. REID (Chairperson) • Mrs. ROWAT • Mr. SARAN • Hon. Mr. SELINGER Committee Membership for the June 1, 2009 meeting: • Hon. Mr. BLAIKIE • Mr. BOROTSIK • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. JHA (Vice-Chairperson) • Ms. MARCELINO • Mr. MCFADYEN • Mr.

REID (Chairperson) • Hon. MR. SELINGER • Mrs. STEFANSON • Mr. WHITEHEAD • Hon. Ms. WOWCHUK Officials from Manitoba Hydro speaking on the record at the November 21, 2005 meeting: • Mr. Bob Brennan, President and Chief Executive Officer • Mr. Vic Schroeder, Chairman Officials from Manitoba Hydro speaking on the record at the October 25, 2007 meeting: • Mr. Bob Brennan, President and Chief Executive Officer • Mr. Vic Schroeder, Chairman Officials from Manitoba Hydro speaking on the record at the December 19, 2007 meeting: • Mr. Bob Brennan, President and Chief Executive Officer • Mr.

Vic Schroeder, Chairman Officials from Manitoba Hydro speaking on the record at the June 1, 2009 meeting: • Mr.

Bob Brennan, President and Chief Executive Officer Reports Considered and Passed Your Committee considered and passed the following report as presented: • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2005 • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2006 Reports Considered but not Passed Your Committee considered the following reports but did not pass them: • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2007 • The Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008 Mr.

Reid: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha), that the report of the committee be received. Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Member for Transcona, seco nded by the honourable Member for Radisson, that the report of the committee be received. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Tabling of reports. * (13:40) TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Greg Selinger (M inister of Finance): Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table the following report: the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, the '09-010 Revenue Estimates. Mr. Speaker: Ministerial statements.

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2535 Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Border View Mennonite Church youth group who are the guests of the honourable Member for Emerson (Mr. Graydon). And also in the public gallery we have from Border Valley School 50 grade 4 and 5 students under the direction of Ms. Margaret Bergen. This school is located in th e constituen cy of the honourable Member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck). And also in the public gallery we have from St.

Maurice School, we have 14 grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Shaun McCaffrey. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable minister for Healthy Living. And also in the public gallery we have from H. C. Avery School, we have 25 grade 7 students under the direction of Ms. Val O'Leary. This school is located in the constitu ency of the honourable Attorney General (Mr. Chomiak). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. Oral questions. ORAL QUESTIONS 1999 Election Campaign Returns Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): The–following the 1999 election, the NDP submitted a number of false election returns in order to trigger more than $76,000 in, in taxpayer-funded rebates th at the party had no entitlement to. Mr. Speaker, almost four years later, they were given the opportunity to file amended returns, and those amended returns were filed without any auditor sign-off even though that auditor sign-off is required under the act. Mr.

Speaker, we have just learned that in addition to the amended returns that were filed almost four years after the fact in April of 2003 that there's a second set of amended returns that were filed by some MLA–some NDP MLAs. The second set of amended returns–so we're now up to three different returns filed by these NDP candidates in connection with the same election campaign. The, the changed, amended returns, the second version, Mr.

Speaker, again doesn't contain auditor sign-off, but in the case of The Pas, has a signature of the official agent, Louise Perry, which is completely different from the signature of Louise Perry on the annual return filed in 1999. I want to ask the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) whether he has any concern at all, as the guardian of the public purse, that his party is filing now three sets of returns, all of which are different from one another; the first set of which was false, and the next two of which have not had auditor sign-off and have different signatures for the same individuals. Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will warn, I will warn the Leader of the Opposition about making, casping–casting aspersions in this House where a member is not subject to, to scrutiny– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Chomiak: –because I want to quote what the provincial election had said on these issues when asked in committee, quote: There is not a political party in this House that has not refilled a financial statement, that has not repaid reimbursement at one point, in some cases, more than once.

So this has happened in the past across the board, having not resulted in prosecutions in either cases. With respect to repayment or reimbursement and refilling your returns, this is not a politic–let's put it in some context. That is not unusual. Let's put the– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: I'll table the, the documents that we're making reference to–t he three sets of returns with respect to The Pas. There are other returns have been filed. In the case of all 13 candidates, now, Mr. Speaker, there are now three different sets of documents on the public record.

The last two amended returns have yet to be signed off by an auditor even though that's a requirement under the act. In the case of The Pas, we've got different signatures. In the case of other documents, including that of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), the official agent signed off on one

2536 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 set of amended returns but has no signature on the other set. I want to ask the Minister of Finance, as the guardian of the public purse, whether he has any concern about the fact that his own party now has three different sets of documents concerning 1999 on the public record and that these are the documents that are used to trigger payments from Manitoba taxpayers to his party. Mr. Chomiak: In–the independent office that reviews this was the same independent office that reviewed the Monnin inquiry, and the Monnin inquiry found that they were not prejudiced, Mr.

Speaker. Leaving Monnin aside, in 1995 the Tories broke the election law by overspending. In '99, three Tory candidates exceeded their limits. In 2003, the Tory auditor, the Conservative Party official auditor, refused to certify the statements and amended the statement four months later. The same point by members opposite, so, Mr. Speaker– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –the, the head of Elections Manitoba is right.

Every party has amended their statements, and every party–and I don't know if the Tories reimbursed the $13,000, and I guess the member– Leader of the Opposition (Mr. McFadyen) should indicate to this House whether the money was reimbursed–[interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –as it was from our side– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –when we amended. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, we do know that there were candidates following 1999 from our party who were aggressively pursued, charged and publicly named by Elections Manitoba in connection with those issues. Mr.

Speaker, what we are talking about here is the fact that after 1999, his party engaged in a deliberate scheme of cheque swapping, phony invoices, false returns, in order to trigger illegal rebates to the tune of $76,000. It's on a different scale from any of the examples that he's citing. The requirement under the act is that if a party restates its financial statements that it must have auditor sign-off. That is a requirement, Mr. Speaker. Here we are almost 10 years later.

We have now three sets of documents on the files, no auditor's sign-off to date, and I wonder if the Attorney General can indicate whether he, as the Attorney General–as, as opposed to being a partisan defender of his party–as Attorney General, has concerns about the fact that these discrepancies exist among all of these very significant documents. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I've heard the member's opinions in the hallway and in this Legislature, and they amount to allegations of the member's opinions. Mr.

Speaker, the Tories did the exact same thing when they refiled their '95 returns, and it was only signed off once by their auditors, on March 22nd, only once by their auditors. That report was signed by the chief financial offi cer for the party. It was filed with Elections Manitoba, accepted, and dealt with in exactly the same fashion as the allegations made by the Leader of the Opposition. The Elections Manitoba said: We took–we're looking at the same situation, and we did the same circumstances. We took the extra step this time.

In fact, the extra step by Elections Manitoba was to say it in the Elections Manitoba report and to state it publicly, something that the Tories didn't do. Addictions Foundation of Manitoba Treatment Wait List Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): We learned this morning about an alarming increase in a wait list for addictions treatment. There are currently 163 people on a wait list for AFM's methadone program, and they're waiting three to four months just for an initial assessment. Most troubling, at least three people have died waiting for help for their opiate addiction.

I'd like to ask the Minister of Healthy Living to explain why she has allowed this wait list to get so dangerously and fatally long. Hon. Kerri Irvin-Ross (Minister of Healthy Living): This government has taken an aggressive approach to addictions and mental health services in Manitoba. We've increased the addictions budget by 54 percent, and, by doing that, we have improved services across Manitoba. Addictions have a cost for individuals, communities and our whole province. What we've done is we have worked with all of our partners to ensure that we are able to provide prevention,

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2537 education, treatment servic es, as well as after-care services to Manitobans. DPIN System Physician Access Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, pharmacists and doctors are supposed to be able to help opiate addiction before it starts by using the DPIN system. Doctors on the front lines say that better, easier access to DPIN would make an enormous difference in the number of people abusing prescription drugs. But the Minister of Healthy Living was on the radio this morning saying that the access doctors currently have is good enough.

I would like to ask the Minister of Healthy Living: Why is she ignoring the front-line doctors and refusing them better access to DPIN so that they can properly and adequa tely deal with these addictions? Hon. Kerri Irvin-Ross (Minister of Healthy Living): The doctors in Manitoba have access through–to DPIN, through communication through the pharmacists. That gives them the access. We have worked very digi–digila–digi–diligently to support individuals in ensuring that we're able to provide and improve technology for health professionals.

The electronic health records are one of those pieces that will help us continue to do this work. But this is only one piece of the solution. The solution is to provide the prevention, the education and the treatment that's required. We will continue to work with our front-line wo rkers as we do every day in this province to ensure that we provide them with the resources that they need. * (13:50) Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, doctors are saying it can take them hours to get a hold of a pharmacist, and they don't have hours in dealing with the addictions.

The bottom line is that people are dying while they're waiting for addiction treatments in Manitoba's methadone program under this minister's watch. Three patients have died recently, and this morning, a doctor on the radio also said that others are talking about suicide because they're so desperate for help. So, not only is this minister not doing enough to combat the wait list, she's not doing enough to help prevent it. So we have to ask her: You know, how many more addicts are out there that are going to fall through the cracks in this system because this minister of Health is not able to do her job properly?

Ms. Irvin-Ross: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member that we have invested money, time and support to agencies across this province. We have done some work, and we have made some–more–we have made progress. We have more work to do, and we are committed to doing that work. We have some strategies which, which we have brought together stakeholders. Our crystal meth strategy is one of those examples where stak eholders got together, identified an issue, developed prevention, education and treatment programs, and we've been able to deal with that crystal meth issue.

What we've done here around OxyContin, when the service providers came to me and talked to me about the issues that they identified, we talked to them. We ensured that we increased the supports into the m.i.n.e. program, as well as providing additional supports across the system for abstinence-based services as well. Seniors Support Services Regional Health Authorities Funding Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): For years, the association of seniors support co-ordinators have been advocating on behalf of seniors resource co-ordinators in Manitoba, but their pleas have been ignored by this Minister of Healthy Living.

The Minister of Healthy Living allocates funding to the RHAs who are then supposed to pass on the funding to the services to seniors groups who provide services like meal programs, recreation and safety programs to seniors. Can the Minister of Healthy Living explain why the funding allocated years ago by her department hasn't yet trickled down to the seniors group and tell the House where the taxpayer money is being spent? Hon.

Kerri Irvin-Ross (Minister of Healthy Living): Seniors support service workers do amazing work throughout this province providing that support to individuals and to communities, whether it's through the congregate meal program, whether it's through supports around yard work, whether it's transportation or the important issue of dealing with isolation and providing those opportunities. We work with the regional health authorities as well as the service–the support workers to ensure that these services are available in the community. Mrs.

Rowat: But this government is cutting those support programs for these individuals. Mr. Speaker,

2538 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 the minister should be able to tell us exactly where the money intended for seniors has gone, but she can't. And these are the facts: Some service to seniors groups get funding increases; some do not. The quality of programming available to Manitoba seniors varies widely depending on where you live. The minister keeps giving the RHAs a blank cheque for seniors programs without making sure it gets past the RHA bureaucracy to Manitoba seniors.

When is the Minister of Healthy Living going to demand some accountability from the RHAs for these funds because they are not actually reaching the programs they're supposed to be, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Irvin-Ross: The regional health authorities provide quality service to seniors across this province every day, whether it's through our health-care system, thro ugh our community-based services. They work–and our home care as well.

They work very closely with community-based services to ensure that seni ors have the supports they need, and what our, our province is working toward Age-Friendly Manitoba, and Age-Friendly Manitoba is working with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, as well as with Manitoba Chamber of Commerce to ensure that we are dealing with the issues of safety, transportation, health care and housing, and through these initiatives we are making a difference alongside the service support workers. Mrs. Rowat: During Estimates, I asked the minister to look into this. There's an obvious disconnect, Mr.

Speaker, and she's doing nothing about it. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Healthy Living has set these groups up to fail, and, as a result, she's failing seniors. Because of her mismanagement, programs for seniors are suffering. I'd like to table a letter that the Minnedosa & District Services to Seniors groups received from the Assiniboine Regional Health asor–Authority last fall. The letter states that–in the first paragraph–that their grant funding will increase. But the third paragraph in the letter states: The Resource Coordinator funding works out to be $317 less than you received last year. Meanwhile, Mr.

Speaker–and this was identified in Estimates–staffing costs at the seniors and health aging secretariat go up and have increased over $20,000 this year. Why is the Minister of Healthy Living more interested in bulking up her own department's bureaucracy than making seniors programs get to the seniors who need them, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Irvin-Ross: It's very interesting that the member across raises seniors suppor t services, when they, in the past, their, their plan was to privatize it. What would of that done for seniors of Manitoba? What would of that done?

What we have done is we've worked, we've worked with community, we've worked with the seniors– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Irvin-Ross: –and their organizations. We've worked with the seniors supporting organizations. We've listened to them. We've developed programs to ensure that, that seniors can stay in their homes as long as they want because we know that's where they, they want to be. That's–their age in a healthy way. We make sure that we provide those, those supports through transportation, through recreation.

By working with all of our partners, we are making a difference in supporting Manitoba seniors. Hog Industry Economic Challenges Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Manitoba's pork industry is facing severe economic challenges with prices at all-time low. Piglets are at $5 a piece, take off the freight to move them; they only gross $3 a piece. Other provinces have stepped up their–upped their help to the pork producers in this time of governments of which it needs action.

This NDP government has no interest in working with an industry that creates 15,000 direct and indirect jobs and generates millions of dollars in export sales. Instead, they're prepared to waste millions of dollars on the west-side power line. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture explain why she won't come to the table with a helping hand, with a hand up for our pork producers? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): I'm very pleased that the member opposite has raised an important issue, and he talks about the pork industry.

I'm very pleased that he also joined us for a barbecue at the back of the Legislature when we were showing our support for the pork industry, Mr. Speaker. Because during a time that we were–

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2539 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Wowchuk: –facing H1N1– Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Wowchuk: –challenges, the pork industry was facing the impacts, Mr. Speaker, and it was important that we have showed public support, and the members opposite, indeed, join us to show–share their support for the industry. I can assure the member, also, that I am indeed working very closely with the industry and just as we have in the past been able to put in place supports for the industry, we continue to work with them on the various options. Mr.

Speaker: Order. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, I know the Manitoba pork industry met with the minister and sent a letter to the minister in late March, and in March they–or May the 11th–they also met with the Premier (Mr. Doer) of this province, along with agricultural minister, and has not heard an answer back in regards to a helping hand in regards to their cash advance–it's not a cash advance, but assistance for our producers. Let's do the math. We have an industry that's worth investing in. We'll get a return on our investment by retraining thousands of direct dollars to direct and indirect.

They're ensuring one of our key exporting industries does survive and stay viable. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture be honest with the producers today and say yes or no to whether or not she is going to help our producers? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm very pleased that the member opposite talked about cash advance. We put in place programs for the pork industry last year. Mr. Speaker, he talks about having met with them in March. I can assure him that I met with them in May. I just met with them a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about the various programs that are there. Mr.

Speaker, this is very much a national issue. We have national programs, and that is why it is important that we work together with the federal government to ensure that we do not create trade challenges. The member opposite does not want to recognize that there are other cha llenges facing the por–pork industry, such as country -of-origin labelling. And that's why we continue to work on that front, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that we take the nec–necessary steps to ensure that our product continues to go into that major market, to the United States. * (14:00) Mr. Eichler: Mr.

Speaker, it's quite clear that the Manitoba government needs to have leadership in regards to providing an advance for our producers, one that's not repayable, one that's not a cash advance, one that's going to show a commitment along the ones that Saskatchewan and Alberta has done. The Manitoba council has asked the minister for help. She's reviewing it. They want to know, yes or no, is this government going to provide assistance for our producers now, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, I guess, Mr. Speaker, today is a spending day. Other days they criticize us for spending.

Today the member, who is back in the House, is talking about spending more money. Mr. Speaker, the member opposite knows full well that there are programs. He talks about cash advance. There are ways to get cash advance, and I would encourage the member to look at the Targeted Advance that we have done in the past, as we have talked to the pork producers, that they should make application for the Targeted Advance to work within the existing programs that we have to ensure that they have cash flow. As I said to the member opposite, we have met with pork producers. We will continue to work with pork producers, Mr.

Speaker. There are many challenges facing the industry. Country-of-origin labelling, the rising Canadian dollar are all putting pressure on the industry. Health-Care Services MRI Wait Times Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, a 15-year-old boy in Winnipeg is desperately in need of health care, because he is forced to wait to see a specialist. Tyler can't sit, stand or walk. He's been lying in bed for three and a half months. Now he is having periods of blindness. He was told he would have to wait eight to 10 weeks for a CT scan and 14 weeks for an urgent MRI.

2540 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 Can the Minister of Health explain to Tyler's mom, Debbie, why her son, who can't sit, walk or stand, was told that the wait for an urgent ERI, or MRI, for him, is 14 weeks? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I believe that every member of this House, every parent in the room, knows that waiting one day is too long when your child is in pain, and I accept the member opposite's statement wholly.

Certainly on the particulars of this case, I commit to the member absolutely to investigate immediately, to be in contact with the mother, to ensure that we can get the most timely and rapid service possible. I would want that for any parent in Manitoba. Specialist Wait Times Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, Tyler needs to see a neurologist but the waits are years long in Manitoba. Winnipeg is short 80 specialists, and I'd like to table the FIPPA that shows we have a shortage of 80 specialists in Winnipeg.

Two of the neuro–two of the pediatric neurologists are missing, and we have three adult neurologists that are also missing. Debbie was told that the wait list to see a pediatric neurologist in Manitoba is four years long. Debbie and Tyler's pediatrician have been beating the bushes in Manitoba and across Canada to find a pediatrician, a neurologist, so Tyler can be diagnosed before he can even be treated. Tyler finally got an appointment to see a neurologist, March 2010.

So can the Minister of Health explain to Tyler and to his mom, Debbie, who is in the gallery today, why he cannot see a neurologist for a year in Manitoba? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I would reiterate that when you are a parent with a child that is in pain, one day of a wait is too long, and I'll commit to the member once again to investigate immediately. That kind of a wait is unacceptably long. I'm not going to deny that, and we want to investigate and find out why. We know that access to doctors is improving in Manitoba.

But, clearly, in this case–and I would want to check more information on the details of the case, but, clearly, even if the member is half correct in what she's saying, that's unacceptably long and we want to do something about it immediately. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, Debbie desperately wants help for her son before it's too late. She is terrified that Tyler's going to die. This is totally unacceptable. Mr. Speaker, 1,471 doctors have left Manitoba under the NDP. There are 80 specialists right now that we are short. The Mayo Clinic could see Tyler tomorrow so that he could be diagnosed and treated.

In Canada, Debbie was told to take Tyler to an ER and sit and wait. Tyler can't sit. So would the minister either agree to send Tyler to the Mayo Clinic where they can see him tomorrow, where they can diagnose him and treat him, and will she commit today to see Debbie after question period? Ms. Oswald: Mr. Speaker, the member well knows that I meet with families and parents, those facing difficulty all the time, and the member in the gallery today would be no exception. I would be happy to meet with her.

Further, I can let the member know that we will look at the specifics of this case, because there isn't a parent in this room whose heart would not break if their child had to wait one day for care. We do not have a perfect system, Mr. Speaker. I have never said that we have. [interjection] Members opposite seem to think that this is an appropriate time to heckle and make jokes. I wouldn't do so when a parent– [interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Let's have a little order. The honourable Minister of Health has the floor. Ms. Oswald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Any parent in this room would know that we want to get the quickest care that we can for children. Our system's not perfect, but we're working on improving it every single day. We're committed to do that, and this case will be no exception. Flooding Municipality Damage Compensation Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, when a municipality is involved in fighting a flood that requires Disaster Financial Assistance funding, they are required to pay at least 10 percent of the costs. When there is a major damage in a municipality, these costs can be prohibitively high.

That has been the case in some Manitoba municipalities hit by floods this year. Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs ha ve any plans to assist

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2541 the affected municipalities in dealing with this challenge? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): The short answer is, yes, we are looking at the impact on municipalities.

We anticipate fully that there'll be federal cost-sharing 'cause, certainly, there's an impact on Manitoba as well, and, indeed, we will be looking at some of the specific costs that the municipalities did incur, because I can't say enough about how our municipalities were there on the front lines, were a huge part of the emergency response and one of the main reasons that we had far less damage than there would have been otherwise. So the short answer is, yes, we are looking at it. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Mr.

Speaker, during the 1997 flood, the Filmon government agreed that no municipality would have to pay more than 5 percent of its annual budget toward flood fighting and clean- up costs. In making that announcement, the government said, and they wanted to–and I'm quoting here: to ensure that no municipality had its finances totally wiped out by costs incurred protecting people and property, end quote. So, Mr. Speaker, I'll just ask the minister if he is prepared to match that reduction to 5 percent. Mr. Ashton: Mr.

Speaker, no one in this government said we were living in a flood plain, so I don't want to necessarily tag this flood event and '97. I want to indicate, first of all, in '97, there was still a significant impact on municipalities because at that time there was a far more significant cost to municipalities because it predated the $130-million worth of flood protection that protected hundreds of homes, businesses and farms in the valley this time. I use the example of the R.M. of Ritchot, where in 1997 they put up three million sandbags. In this flood event, there were 300,000 sandbags.

So there still was a significant impact to municipalities post-'97, notwithstanding the information the member brings to the House. We are looking, Mr. Sp eaker, at minimizing any impact on municipalities. We've already moved on municipal equipment. It was 16 percent requ– recovery of heavy equipment rental rates. It's now 65 percent. We're working with municipalities. We'll make a real difference. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:10) Mrs. Taillieu: Mr. Speaker, flood hit municipalities are reporting costs well in excess of their budgetary abilities.

They're facing huge costs related to preflood preparations, damage to roads and other infrastructure and clean-up costs. For example, this year in the Rural Municipality of Morris, their estimated co st for, for flood-related issues are 7 to 8 million dollars, which means at 10 percent requirement under disaster financial assistment, it will cost them 700 to 800,000 dollars. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister again: Will he commit to provide the same type of assistance to municipalities as the former government did in 1997? Mr. Ashton: Mr.

Speaker, I, I think this is a member that doesn't take yes for an answer. I said yes, we are reviewing the cost to municipalities. In fact, Mr. Speaker, we're not going to use the benchmark of 1997, 'cause I want to stress again that there were particulars, particularly municipal equipment, that weren't adequately covered in 1997. So we're gonna apply fairness in 2009. In fact, I took the time to go out to the affected municipality, the R.M. of Morris. I've met with the reeve in that area. We're more than aware of the concerns, Mr. Speaker.

So the short an swer–again, I know the member doesn't like to take yes for an answer–but, yes, we're reviewing the cost, and yes we want to limit the cost to municipalities following the flood of 2009. Breezy Point Government Buyout of Homes Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the government for their long-term plan for the area at Breezy Point and the area across the river on the east side. You know, there was no answer. Now, some time ago, the government bought out people on Hecla Island, and then a few years later reversed and changed their mind, and it was a total mess.

Well, I asked yesterday for a long-term plan, and the government didn't provide an answer. Breezy Point residents who have not been flooded, who spent a lot of money and flood proofed their homes to an adequate level, are now being dispossessed by this government. So people are asking why the government is wasting money buying them out without even a long-term plan.

2542 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 What is the long-term plan? When's the minister gonna table it? Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Conservation): Well, as I indicated yesterday to the Member for River Heights, our focus, very much, have been the people who very, were negatively impacted by lots of water and lots of ice right into their homes this past spring and in a number of springs pre-de– pre-dating this flood event of this year, Mr. Speaker. I think we, we are correct in working directly with those people whose lives have been turned upside down by Mother Nature.

I think we have to work with those folks. We have to be very sympathetic with those folks and their lot in life today, not down the road, but today, Mr. Speaker. And I think we have put a very fair, very generous preflood, free market value offer on the table for these folks to help them relocate and, and I think we have to be very clear–and I think I'll get a chance to be very clear in a second. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, many who were badly flooded, who've been rep eatedly flooded, accept that there's a need for a buyout, but it's the people who have never been flooded, right?–who flood proofed their homes high enough that they were not flooded this year, they're asking why is the government wasting money. These are people who have invested their long-time future, have dreams, and now the government has got a gun to their head saying: move, leave behind the dreams of a lifetime. At least Mr.

Minister should give a long-term plan, and let people know that it's not gonna be another Hecla Island, that the government has a vision of some sort for what's gonna happen to that area. Mr. Struthers: You know, sometimes, sometimes, Mr. Speaker, I think we have to be very careful with the choose–the words that we choose and we–when we go to, when we go to bat for, for people in, in Manitoba. And I understand the, the need for the Member for River Heights to represent people that come to meet with him.

I, I understand that, but to say that we're putting a gun to people's heads by offering a fair market, preflood, fair market arrangement to help these people relocate when they were in a tough situation. And I want to add, Mr. Speaker, there were other people, people who went to rescue these folks who were put in harm's way, municipal leaders who stuck their necks out to represent their people too, just as the Member for River Heights is doing today, people locally like the reeve, Don Forfar, who has co-operated right to the whole 10 yards in this, stepping forward and providing real leadership.

We have to be very, very sympathetic to the, the cause of these folks and their plight– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Struthers: –and work with them. Burntwood Regional Health Authority Litigation against Journalist Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, this NDP government has fa–failed at holding our regional health-care authorities accountable, and that's one of the reasons why we believe it's important that they co me before a standing committee. Having said that, now we have the Burntwood Regional Health Authority that is suing, Mr.

Speaker, or threatening to sue, a freelance reporter because they didn't like the articles that were written. One could talk about freedom of speech, but what really offends is that you have a regional health-care authority that is using tax dollars in order to intimidate someone that's trying to uncover some truth as to what's actually taking place in health care in the province of Manitoba. My question to the Minister of Health: Does she support regional health-care au-authorities using tax dollars to sue Manitobans because they don't necessarily like what regional health authorities are doing in the province?

Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe in a free and democratic society. It's part of why I'm here. And, also, I, I welcome healthy debate and, and criticism. It adds to that healthy debate, helps us go forward. I can also let you know th at there have been very serious allegations made over time, you know, words like corruption and bribery and so forth. And, and I want the, the member to know that there are processes in place for such kinds of allegations to be independently investigated.

I also want to assure the member, assure the journalist, as well, that if there are evidence of such thin gs, that, that I encourage him to bring those things forward to the appropriate authority, to the Ombudsman. I believe in free speech, Mr. Speaker.

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2543 Community Economic Development National Conference Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): I have yet to hear a very, very important question from that side. For the last six years, I've been waiting for–to hear some, some, some important futuristic and positive question on–[interjection] Yes, it is about economy, friends. I will not use that word. But it is about economy. And I must say, Mr. Speaker, we need jobs, we need economy, we need real economic development throughout Manitoba.

Now I have to ask the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to give us some information on what our government is doing to give opportunities to regional economies, to develop economies in, all across Manitoba on the important– which is jobs, economy and opportunities for business development. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs): This week Manitoba hosts a national conference on community economic development.

While in other jurisdictions the headlines talk about major bankruptcies, here in Manitoba, with the lowest unemployment rate in the country, one of the untold stories is the degree to which community economic development in urban centres and rural centres and northern centres is part of the Manitoba model.

And we're going to be sharing the success stories in northern Manitoba: the new CEDF headquarters opened this past Thursday; the success stories in rural Manitoba in terms of rural economic development; and I'm particularly proud we're going to be able to share the success stories of nor–of Neighbourhoods Alive!, Mr. Speaker, where in Winnipeg and Brandon and Thompson, now in five new communities we're seeing community economic development to the point that the highest increase in property values in the city of Winnipeg is in the core area, in the north of Winnipeg.

By working with communities, the Manitoba model is working at the community economic development level. Vita Hospital Emergency Room Closure Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, the community of Vita has joined a long list of oth–of other ERs that have been closed by this NDP government. The Minister of Health has now closed 18 rural emergency rooms. Ten years ago, the NDP promised to fix health care in six months and $15 million. Will the minister tell the people of Vita why she's risking their health an d safety by closing these emergency room? Hon.

Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): We know that recruiting in rural, and even more difficult a situation in northern Manitoba is a challenge. We know that physician shortages are not unique to Manitoba and that indeed, they are a national and international challenge. We know that this situation isn't ideal for the community of Vita, and we're going to work with the regional health authority on recruitment efforts that involve international medical graduates and involve growing our own doctors here at home by increasing the spaces in our medical school.

I might point out that's a sharp contrast to members opposite choice; when in tough economic ties–times, you just cut the spaces in medical school. I wonder why you did that. * (14:20) Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, the minister's answer is cold comfort to the people of Vita, who have a long drive ahead of them when there's an emergency, all because the minister failed to do her job. More than 1,471 doctors have left Manitoba since the NDP took office. Three doctors were supposed to be working in the Vita hospital, two have left, one–the last one–plans to leave in three weeks.

When that happens, the hospital will be closed. Will the minister tell the community of Vita: Will she have doctors in place to reopen the ER, or is the Vita hospital going to be closed permanently? Ms. Oswald: Again, I say to the member opposite, that we're going to continue to work to provide doctors to our regional health authorities in rural Manitoba where, where it's a greater challenge. Members opposite have an interesting habit of mentioning an exodus of doctors from Manitoba. But they never, not once, mention the number of doctors that come to Manitoba. And why do you think that is, Mr. Speaker?

Well, I'll let you know. I think it's because it shows that we have had a net increase of doctors every year since we've come into office. That's a 21 percent increase in rural Manitoba, which stands in sharp contrast to virtually every year in the

2544 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 1990s, where there was negative, negative, negative, negative. We have more work to do, Mr. Speaker, but I'll put our record on bringing doctors to Manitoba against theirs any day of the week. Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, that minister brought up the 1990s. There were no ERs closed in Manitoba in the 1990s. Mr. Speaker, the truth is, the truth is 1,471 doctors have left Manitoba under the NDP, and 18 rural emergency rooms are closed today. The longer this minister is on the job, the worse the problem gets.

The hospital in Vita serves a large area and is an integral part of the community. There's also a large personal care home or facility attached to the hospital. The people of Vita don't care about the minister's excuses. They're worried about their health and their safety, and they want answers. When will the minister fill the doctor shortage in Vita? Ms. Oswald: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'll say again that we're going to continue on our efforts to ensure that we have a– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Ms.

Oswald: –to ensure that we have a net increase of doctors coming to Manitoba every year, in stark contrast to members opposite. I can say to the member– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Oswald: –that he's put factually incorrect– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Oswald: –information on the record. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms.

Oswald: The only party in Manitoba to ever close an emergency room in Winnipeg was the Conservative Party of Manitoba with Misericordia, and they had their bull's-eye and their cross hairs set on Seven Oaks, didn't they? Thank goodness that didn't happen. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. Members' statements. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Kendra's Walk for Kids Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Last Friday I had the honour of joining one of my constituents, 17-year-old Kendra McBain, and hundreds of students, family and supporters in Kendra's Walk for Kids at St. John's-Ravenscourt School.

Kendra McBain is a remarkable young woman of 17. Three years ago, she was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma, a very rare form of cancer. In the last few years, she's undergone 32 chemotherapy treatments, 50 radiation trea tments and six surgeries. She's overcome some enormous challenges in her young life, but Kendra wants to give something back to CancerCare and all of the people who did such a wonderful job of caring for her and supporting her during a very difficult time for her and her family. Having spent so much time at CancerCare, Kendra noticed a need for a better space for teenagers.

The existing teen room is often overrun with younger children. All teenagers need a space to call their own, and teenagers with cancer are no different. They need somewhere to relax and hang out with people their own age. So Kendra organized a fundraising walk near the grounds of her school to raise money to refurbish the teen room at CancerCare. Kendra's efforts paid off in a big way. The senior school at St. John's-Ravenscourt, alone, raised more than $57,000 for this very worthwhile cause, and donations were still coming in on Friday.

On Friday when she took the microphone before the walk, Kendra said that she wanted her peers to know that there is no shame in having cancer. That's a message worth repeating, especially since teenagers with cancer can so often feel isolated and alone. Kendra also paid tribute to her family and to a very special teacher at her school, Roberta Mitchell, who has been a source of endless support and encouragement to her. I had the pleasure of meeting Roberta on Friday, and I can understand why Kendra feels so lucky to have her in her life.

Despite having spent so much of her high school years undergoing treatment for cancer, Kendra has chosen not to let the disease define her. Her high school legacy is not that she has cancer. Kendra is a woman whose hard work, dedication and compassion

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2545 will make a difference in the lives of countless young cancer patients who will now have a place at CancerCare to truly call their own. Kendra is an inspiration to all Manitobans. I'd like to ask all members of the Legislature to join me in thanking all those who supported Kendra's Walk for Kids on Friday and in congratulating Kendra McBain on a job very well done. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tom Gallant Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, there are an amazing number of interesting and talented people living in northern Manitoba.

Take Tom Gallant as a prime example. Currently, Tom is the principal at West Lynn Heights School in Lynn Lake. On March 28th, Tom was inducted into the Newfoundland sports hall of fame for his contribution to the sport of judo. He has been involved with judo for over 40 years, having first taken an interest in, in the martial art at the age of 18. A fifth-degree black belt and a level three certified coach, Tom has made a significant contribution to the sport of judo in this country. Ms.

Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Tom was a founding member of the Newfoundland and Labrador Judo Association, serving as president and vi ce-president for 12 years, establishing clubs across the province and writing the promotion criteria for judo in Newfoundland. Tom was also a master coach and senior-ranked judo player, having coached over 3,000 athletes in Newfoundland, producing 80 Atlantic medals, four national medals and two medals at the world masters level.

In recognition of his provincial judo accomplishment, Tom was inducted into the Newfoundland and Labrador Judo Association Hall of Fame in 1993. Tom served on the national executive for Judo Canada as vice-president for eight years. He played a signifi cant role in developing and implementing a standard for Canada's national coaching certification program, even writing a highly acclaimed thesis on the topic.

As the only national A referee in Newfoundland, Tom officiated at the senior and junior nationals, the Canada Winter Games and 1993 world championships, and the Canadian and west invitational international tournaments. Tom has brought his talent and love for judo to northern Manitoba, starting a judo club at West Lynn Heights. He was awarded coach of the month in April 2000, by Sport Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I'm so glad Tom has made his home in northern Manitoba. Not only is he a wonderful judo coach, he is also a passionate educator who devotes his time and talent to the young people of Lynn Lake. Thank you.

Neepawa Area Collegiate Institute Musical Production Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Madam Deputy Speaker, Grease was the word in Neepawa Area Collegiate Institute this past March when our talented students put on a wonderful production of the hit musical Grease, at the historic Roxy Theatre in downtown Neepawa. Their three performances, from March 18th to 20th, drew a sell-out crowd with over a thousand people from the community taking in the show.

A total of 117 students from NACI participated, with 41 in the cast and the remaining 76 involved in production, lighting, sound stage, set painting, make- up, stage crew, pit band and the many important roles needed to put on a musical. Tremendous time and energy went into this musical with students auditioning in late October and rehearsals beginning in mid-November. In the leading role, Steven Anderson played Danny, while Lacey Tremaine was Sandy.

Other notable cast members included the Pink Ladies: Alyssa Dreger, Rachel Quelch, Kaitlyn Zechowski and, and Angela Gower; and the T-Birds: Marseu Gordon, Eric Beaumont, Sefo Gordon and Aaron Martin. The creativity exhibited by the students was remarkable and it was plain to see that every member of the cast was having tremendous fun on stage, from learning to hand jive to energetic chorus, chorus line kicks.

There were a few moments of levity as well: the stage crew was spot lit while doing a conga line in the middle of a set change; later, the crew acted quickly to retrieve a cast member's shoe that fell behind the piano. The show runner, Blair Chapman, had been producing musicals in Neepawa for the past nine years. Putting in over a hundred hours of preparatory time, he truly goes above beyond the working students to bring out their talents and ensuring that they have positive stage experience to add to their high school résumés.

2546 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 While students do not receive academic credits for participation, they do receive extracurricular points that count towards their Beautiful Plains credits, a special program in the Beautiful Plains School Division. Taking

part is a major boost to the students' self-esteem. They realize they have hidden talents that they themselves were not aware of. My own children were involved in major productions at NACI, and I am excited to see this fine musical theatre tradition continuing into the next generation. I congratulate the cast and crew of Grease, and I am already looking forward to next year's musical production. Thank you, Madam Speaker. * (14:30) Opaskwayak Cree Nation RCMP Detachment Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise today to speak to an event I attended at the Opaskwayak Cree Nation last month.

On May 14th, the new RCMP-First Nations Community Police Service detachment was officially opened. This new event–this event has been long awaited welcome addition to the Opaskwayak Cree Nation and the north service area of the RCMP in Manitoba. The presence of this new detachment headquarters underscores the government's continued commitment to provide front-line professional policing in First Nations communities in the north. It also functions to enhance the relationship between First Nation governments and their people.

This new professional work environment is critical to the RCMP if they are going to provide the best possible service to the community. However, the success of this endeavour was determined long before the official opening of the detachment. Without the commitment and support of OCN and the town of The Pas, this detachment would never have been possible. This new development is part of an ongoing commitment to expand our relationships and our understanding of one another. It is symbolic of the fact that when we work together we can achieve a better understanding of each other's history and culture.

We are moving into a new era where we can plan together and work together. It is in this exciting direction that we are working to take policing in the north. With the support of both the town of The Pas and OCN, we were able to work out an agreement that benefits all people, both near and in the surrounding region. This co-operative in–initiative is an example of the positive change that we can bring to our communities by working together for safety and harmony.

I ask all members to join me in congratulating the communities on this impressive new facility, and wishing the men and women that serve this new detachment the very–the best for the future. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Randi Toews Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Recently a constituent of mine from Winkler was nominated for the Women of Distinction, Gerrie Hammond Memorial Award of Promise. Randi Toews, a grade 12 student from Garden Valley Collegiate, was nominated for this award because of her involvement in the community.

Recipients of this award ar e required to be a grade 12 student who is a role model for young women, has shown scholastic ach ievement, significant contribution to her school and community, and shows promise of becoming a woman of distinction. This year, 18 students were nominated for the award. Mr. Speaker in the Chair Randi Toews has a passion for sports, and has demonstrated involvement in sports such as volleyball, basketball and swimming, both as a player and a coach. However, her main interest involves teaching young people in her community. Ms.

Toews started her own dance classes for 12-and 13-year-old girls in her community so that young girls have the opportunity to learn dance in a fun environment that's close to home. She als–she has also started her own swimming lessons for young people, which has doubled in enrolment in only one year. Randi Toews is committed to providing youth in the region with many extracurricular activities. Along with teaching danc e and swimming lessons, Ms. Toews also teaches Sunday school at her church and is a camp councillor at Red Rock Bible Camp. Her experiences as a teacher have convinced Ms.

Toews to take up teaching as a career, as she plans to go into education next year at the University of Winnipeg. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Randi Toews for being nominated for the Women of Distinction, Gerrie Hamm ond Memorial Award of Promise. Ms. Toews has become a role model for many young girls in the community, and all who know her are grateful for her dedication to volunteering and teaching. Thank you.

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2547 Mr. Speaker: Grievances. GRIEVANCES Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for the Lakeside, on a grievance? Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Lakeside on a grievance. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to try to put a thi–a few things on the reco rd in regards to the pork industry that we had talked about earlier in question period. And I know that it's a significant importance to the economy here in Manitoba.

We're talking about piglets now bringing $5 apiece, with freight of $2 in order to get them to their various marketplaces, which leaves them a gross of some $3 apiece. When I asked the minister in regards to whether or not they were going to offer up some type of an advance in, in regards to assisting those producers, we weren't talking about a cash advance per se as in the form of a loan, but an advance that's going to be able to help them sustain their industry.

This industry creates some 15,000 direct and indirect jobs and it creates millions of dollars in export sales, and when we look at the overall impact, when we look at the electrical business, the lumber business, the gas business, the trucking industry, the tire industry, the list goes on and on, the impact that's gonna affect the overall economy of this province. As agriculture makes up 25 percent of our– Manitoba's economy, it's significant when we look at just one sector in regards to the pork industry as we see it yet today.

And we know that in Saskatchewan, they offered some $20 for the, the, the bigger pigs and $10 on, on the weanlings, and Alberta offered a similar program to help their pork producers in a time of need, and we know that even though that there's gonna be a need for help–and, in fact, I know the Canadian Pork Council has asked the federal government for thir–some $30 per pig in aid, in order to see that that this industry does stay alive and well.

And we know that the Manitoba Pork Council originally had come to the government and said that Saskatchewan was wrong and that maybe it would cause a trade barrier that would come up against us, the United States, in regards to trade, and we know that that didn't come about as a result of that. Manitoba Pork has since changed their position and wrote the minister in March of this year, Mr. Speaker, asking the provincial government to have a look at whatever they could do to assist the producers in this province to see that their, their business can be sustained.

The minister took that letter as notice, and, again, through no fault of their own, we had a swine flu which was retrovly changed to H1N1, and what it should have been called in the first place, but that cost our industry some 3 to $4 million per day. We've had significant losses and the minister talked about things like country-of-origin labelling, a downturn in the markets. Country-of-origin labelling alone, we knew and started advising the government a number of years ago–in fact, two and a half years ago–that we need to be ready for this country-of- origin labelling.

We've seen a downturn not only in the hog industry but also in the beef industry, which I'll hopefully get to at the end of my, my grievance, Mr. Speaker.

But in regards to the country-of-origin labelling, we, we need to, to have been looking at and need to look at, in the future, other markets where we can expand our processing facilities within the province of Manitoba, look at those markets, that we're able to sustain this wonderful product that we grow right here in Manitoba, plus that meat in a way that's gonna be able to meet that demand in the marketplace in those other countries where we need so vitally to be without having to rely just on United States as our meeting tra–major trading partner. So we've encouraged the government to do that.

We're onside with that and whatever we can do to ensure the fact that, that those markets, in fact, do indeed get met. But in order to do that, we need to sustain the industry and our producers are not asking for a handout; they're simply asking for a hand up to get past these challenges. If we look at the math in regards to this particular initiative, this investment is certainly one that's worth looking at.

The return we're gonna get on that investment is, as we talked about earlier, the direct and indirect jobs, because it is such a large part of our industry, and we need to make sure that, in fact, it is sustainable. The pork producers and, and the banking industry, the feed industry, they all have just been waiting for this government to either say yes or no.

In fact, a number of them have been hanging on by the threads of their, the last bit of financial input that they be able to put into this, this hog industry, and they need to be having some clear guidance from the governments in regards to whether or not they're gonna step forward,

2548 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 in fact help the producers in a cash injection into this particular industry. I know on May the 11th, right after the barbecue, the minister had talked about, the Pork Council did meet with the Premier (Mr. Doer) of the province and the minister. That's almost a month ago. In regards to timing, every day is a very important day, whether it be in the House or on a weekend or a weekday. Those people are indeed waiting for answers and they need to get an answer in a very timely manner, Mr. Speaker.

They need to know what the government's financial commitment's going to be in regards to ensuring that the industry will be sustainable. I know the Manitoba Pork Council, I talked to 'em as early this morning, and they are also very concerned.

They'r e meeting with their counterparts, as I speak, in Ottawa, and I know that they have been asking and pressuring the federal government for their share of the contribution, but we need to show the leadership similar to that what was happening in Saskatchewan, and that was where they injected a cash injection into their industry in order to ensure that that industry will be sustainable as well. * (14:40) Now, Saskatchewan's also made it very clear they're open for business, and when we talked about Bill 17, we were worried that we may lose our industry to Saskatchewan.

We certainly don't want to see that happen. I know the government don't want to see that happen, and if we don't do something very soon, we may in fact see that industry exit this province. We know that, that the hog industry is also under heavy environmental regulations, that they're, they're trying to meet in a way that they also can put money for feed, money from improve ments to their barns, improvement to feeding system, improvements to scientific data, which they're able to try and obtain in order to make sure that they have a safe product for the markets and for the future.

In regards to the manure management regulations, that again is another cost that's been passed on to them. As a result of that, they're going to have to have a cash advance or cash injection into that particular sector in order for them to be able to, to meet those requirements as well. Mr. Speaker, I know it's imperative that, that we, we try and encourage the government in any way we can in order for them to make sure that they do get back to the pork industry in a very timely manner.

I talked about earlier in my comments in regards to the other factors that were, that were affected in, in regards to the livestock sector and that's the beef industry as well. We have not asked for a cash advance there or a cash injection. The cash advance is a replayable payment that has to be paid back to the government. They have not asked for anything other than the cash advance, but most producers–and, in fact, I know the hog producers–can't afford any more loans.

In fact, I know the beef producers can't afford any more loans, but they've both been affected through no fault of their own, through either one thing or the other, and, and in regards to the country of origin or in regards to processing of their particular products in the marketplace. We've seen the industry, as far as the meat processing plant and beef industry, see a percentage go down from 80-some percent of processors within the province of Alberta and Saskatchewan.

In fact, Saskatchewan just closed down their plant in Moose Jaw for the cow-processing plants because there's a shortage of, of slaughter, slaughter cows. And unfortunately, as a result of that, Mr. Speaker, we, we've seen the opening here of, of a plant who's provincially inspected, Keystone Processors. We certainly wish them well.

We know that they're attempting to try and get federal status in regards to processing meat, and whatever we can do in this province to encourage consumption of those products, whether it be beef or pork, we know that we have a lot to learn from other jurisdictions, and when we can pass that information on in order to ensure that we do have those markets for not only our pork but our beef, and I know that whenever we'll look at an increasing slaughter capacity within the province of Manitoba, we have another, a few other processing plants that are looking at becoming federally inspected as well.

So we're trying to make sure that we do, in fact, encourage those processors who do have a great quality product within the province of Manitoba to look at markets outside the province of Manitoba. In fact, in this House, it's now only two years ago, we brought forward a motion in regards to provincial trade where we asked for those boundaries within one province to the other being nullified so we're able to have meat that's bought in Saskatchewan and brought into Manitoba, processed meat that's in Saskatchewan brought into Manitoba and vice versa.

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2549 I think it's very important that when we look at these, these different alternatives, that we look outside the box, not only to further markets but within our own, our own province's as well. So I think it's also very imperative that we look and move forward on some of those programs that's so important to keeping both the hog and pork industry here in the province of Manitoba. The poultry industry's, on the other hand, has done a great job. I mean, they've, they've made sure that, that their products are able to go within from one jurisdiction to the other.

In fact, they–most of the–all the plants, in fact, federally inspected, and we have a lot to learn from them. So with that, I want to leave this on the record, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Business; orders of the day. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, just pri–I'd like to indicate that pursuant to rule 31(8), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be one put forward by the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick), and the title of the resolution is flood workers. Mr.

Speaker: Okay, it's been announced pursuant to rule 31(8), that the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be the one put forward by the honourable Member for St. Norbert. The title of the resolution is flood workers. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, I, I would propose that you call for debate on second readings bills in the following order: Bill No. 25, The Statistics Amendment Act; Bill No. 27, the gaming control act; Bill No. 28, The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act; Bill No. 32, The Centre culturel franco-manitobain Act–Loi sur le Centre culturel franco-manitobain–and Bill No. 7, The Food Safety and Related Amendments Act. And I will have further announcements later, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Orders of the day. The orders of business will be, we'll resume debate on second readings in this order: 25, 27, 28, 32 and Bill 7.

And there'll be a further announcement coming later in the day. DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 25–The Statistics Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: So, right now, I'm gonna call second reading on Bill No. 25, The, The Statistics Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable Member for Carman. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I will–[interjection]–to put a few words on the record in regards to Bill 25, The Statistics Amendment Act.

And this bill has forced significant changes to The Statistics Act–that's a tongue-twister– but it clarifies the role of the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics it in–its inclusion now of voluntary surveys, currently there ar e only mandatory surveys. It also conforms The Statistics Act to The Freedom of Information Act and the public health information act. However, it continues to fall short on privacy protection which the Me mber for Morris (Mrs.

Taillieu), Member for Morris has been–it also updates and increases fines for both the employees of, of the bureau and for those companies who do not conform to the mandatory surveys. And, of course, it also includes general gender-neutral language.

The mandatory and voluntary surveys–prior to this bill, any survey issued by the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics was a mandatory survey that required by law to be completed by the respondent, and this bill now allows MBS, if I can use that term MBS for Manitoba Bureau of Statistics, to issue voluntary service–surveys where a respondent can choose not to respond to the survey and still face no legal penalties.

An example, it would be a wide-ranging survey in which a single respondent's response, response, will not greatly affect the quality of the data, and it has been indicated by the department that to date no penalties have been issued by MBS for non-compliance of MBS surveys which were compulsory up till now. So, they haven't, they haven't enforced the penalties to date. We hope they, they keep it that way. We don't need the heavy hand of government prying out information that, that respondents feel is, is privy only to them.

The MBS will still conduct mandatory surveys when required, and an example of this would be mandatory survey be conducted whereupon a failure to answer would leave a significant disruption in the

2550 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 data seeking to be collected. And we have been given no particular example of how this, by the department of, of the cause for a mandatory survey. * (14:50) There is, there is no objective formula which outlines surveys that are to be considered mandatory and which ones are to be considered voluntary. So, clearly, we have no set distinction how the department or how MBS will determine what is a mandatory survey and what shall be a voluntary survey. And, and again, it leads us to questions.

So, when the–when MBS is sending out their requests for surveys, we would only hope that, that these are, are being, they are being–this is a mandatory survey or a voluntary survey. So we need some clarification on that when they are indeed sending out their requests for surveys. The penalties, and there's always penalties, and the people whose actions breach the MBS oath, that's employees within MBS, the fines can be up to 50,000, so–$50,000, pardon me–so they, they are significantly increased.

And this is under the, the direction that increased fines–that the risk of increased fines will certainly deter anyone from releasing this information who should not be doing it. People who falsely–who give–who falsify, pardon me–people who falsify information or fail to answer required schedule–this fine's up to $1,000. And again, we're looking for clarification on just when these fines would come in. Failing to grant access to documents or obstruct the execution of a duty under The Statistics Act, fines up to $1,000, and falsely representing MBS, fines up to $10,000.

And, of course, in this day of, of so much information being available out there, that we really do need MBS to be–make sure that no one is out there representing them and obtaining information, personal in formation, under false pretences. Of course, the bill goes through with gender-neutral language and that's normal for any bill that's going there. We do have–well, we ge nerally will support the bill; at least we won't necessarily oppose the bill. There's always a concern about the information being gathered, whether it's, whether it's being contained and not being released to areas where it shouldn't be.

This bill–it's important to ensure that government policies and programs are properly tailored to the demographics and that the information that the MBS is collecting is indeed relevant to Manitobans and to expedite government's role in the province. The question then always becomes, just how much information do we really need. And I think that, that the department should have gone back on this bill and really sat down and figured out how much of this is a duplication with Statistics Canada. We all know that Statistics Canada is out there gathering a lot of information.

We've heard recently in the last months where StatsCan has released information only to have MBS come up and say, well, no, this information is not correct. So maybe there should have been–there should be more co-ordination and there can be more co-ordination between these two organizations. Although you have to–that is not the goal of this bill because there is nowhere in this bill wher e they do, where they do actually say that they will co-ordinate with StatsCan.

So that's certainly a failing on this bill, where they could have certainly been a little more proactive and a little more wide-ranging on their, on their future goals with it. But we also know that with this government, cost is never an issue so they, they would have no, no reason to look at co-ordinating with StatsCan in order to save some money because they have a penchant for spending. The government has the obligation, when dealing with private information, to protect its citizens, to protect this information.

And, and the member from Morris has been very vocal and very knowledgeable on the subject of privacy, and in our bill briefing she pointed out again how the FIPPA and PHIA legislation is lacking. And I believe she will be putting some comments on the record about it's short–the shortcomings of this bill again and gathering these vital statistics and in protecting it from unscrupulous use. The inclusion of voluntary services is a positive step, but, but, actually, we're not really certain how it will be used.

Again, there is no, no lack of information out there, and so are they doing this–and a good example of this voluntary surveys that they could be doing is in the apprenticeship act. The minister is very vocal and very proud of his record of advertising on Hockey Night in Canada and on the television program, CSI , and, yet, when I asked him in Estimates, are you doing any survey work to go back and find out are any of these apprentices actually–are actually coming into the program

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2551 because of–based on your advertising, and he said, no, we don't do any follow-up. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair So perhaps that is somewhere where, if you must have MBS there, perhaps that is a place where you could be using it. But we'll see on that. I think it would be a much–again, I know they're not going to do it, but I really would question the use of public taxpayer money to advertis e on these programs with no end results from it. There's also always the concern about gathering personal health information.

This information is very sensitive, and the government must take every provision possible to ensure that this information is never collected unless needed and, then, to maintain the utmost in its security when collected.

In the bill briefing, we did have the MBS staff telling us about how their security system was in–impenetrable, but nowadays it is–there is so much information floating around, it continues to be a concern and its–and what are you doing with this information when you do have it and how are you dis–how are you disposing of this material once your–it's no longer relevant, once you no longer need it. And that's–continues to be concerns with us. We know that this, this, this government is–goes to great lengths to collect all kinds of information for its own use.

We're, we're hoping that MBS is not another one of those at–government agencies where they're using this for use for within their own party connections. We would also–we know that if you, if you–again, if you must have MBS there, then perhaps they can use it to measure the effects of the downturn in the Manitoba economy. Again, I was quizzing the minister in Estimates about the tradespeople that have left the province to go to other provinces to find work. There's no tracking of that. There's no tracking of people coming into the province wh ich–what trades there, what qualifications, what skills.

So you really–you have no, you have no idea on the movement of people in and out, and while we say it somewhat cautiously, we, we never want to pry too much into personal lives, but still it would help this government track our potential work force coming into the province, and, certainly, it would help track the, the work force that's left this province to find different and better jobs, other province. So, again, Madam Deputy Speaker, while we won't oppose the bill, it's always a concern.

It always raises concerns about pr ivacy, about relevancy, duplication of services, and so while this bill is an update to what's currently on, on legislation right now, this bill, it will pass in this current session, and we hope that the government makes wise use of their funds and their resources rather than the wasteful spending that we've seen in the past. So, with that, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. * (15:00) Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I'm pleased to just speak a few words here on Bill 25, The Statistics Amendment Act.

And I think that what this bill is intending to do is just clarify and, as the bill itself states, it's, it's to strengthen protection of privacy and confidentiality of information collected, maintained or disclosed by the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics. And, again, what we're talking about in this bill is information that's collected in the public sector.

So when you're talking about information in the public sector, that would be government agencies, government bodies, school boards, universities, that kind of in–in–information would be protected under the provincial legislation like FIPPA and PHIA, so that if there was any breach of, of confidentiality that a person would have recourse. Now, with, with any kind of bill that you're talking about collection of data, statistics, the basis of statistics and data is personal information, so in no way should any of this information be able to be traced back to an individual.

If you're talking about collection of data, numerical data, to just use for totally statistical purposes, that's one thing, but being able to track back this information to individuals is problematic. Now there are always checks and balances with the legislation that we have with the FIPPA and the PHIA. We have rules that talk about how information can be collected, how it can be used, how it can be disclosed, what you need to do to protect it and what you should do to dispose of it. So, when you, when you're talking about legislation affecting public bodies, yes, there are guidelines there.

There's legislatio n there to protect the information–personal information of people. However, when you go into the private sector, there is not the same prot ection because in Manitoba we don't have private sector privacy laws unless

2552 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 you're doing a commercial activity, and then that is covered under the federal legislation. Now, when we were having a briefing with the minister, and, and we'll fault the provincial statistician, they brought up an example. If they wanted to go out into the private world and ask–and the example that we were talking about was what if you wanted to find out how many 56-year-old carpenters a company had.

So I raised the question, well, supposing this was information that the 56-year-old carpenters didn't want shared, and supposing the employer shared that information. Now, the minister said to me, well, they could just go to the Ombudsman, but, Madam Deputy Speaker, that is absolutely not the case here in Manitoba. You cannot go to the Ombudsman because the Ombudsman has no jurisdiction in the private sector. She only manages the FIPP A and PHIA legislation.

So what recourse that person would have would be to hire a lawyer, send them to Ottawa to the federal Privacy Commissioner, which would be very costly and, and a lengthy process. So there are some loopholes in this legislation that do not really provide the checks and balances that should be there to protect people in the private sector when their employers share information. Now, when–supposing an employer was asked for information about the people in his company for statistical reasons and the employer said, well, you know, here, here's the files you, you have a look at them, I'm too busy.

There's no legislation that tells the employer how he must provide protection for the information that he's providing, what he should provide, what is too much to provide, and the care of duty that he has over that personal information. So, even though many businesses in Manitoba have privacy protections in place because they recognize that it is just good business to do that, many still are unaware that personal information is something that needs to be protected, and, and there is a care of duty to, to be careful with that information.

So, when we, when we have this legislation being brought forward which actually could expand voluntary surveys into th e private sector where private sector individuals could inadvertently provide more information than might be needed, then there's no recourse for an individual to say to anyone, well, I didn't like the way my employer shared that information even though it was to the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics.

They may have provided too much information or information that was not required and, therefore, disseminated personal information without consent of that person, and, ultimately, that person, should they feel that their privacy has been violated, they would have to take that up with the federal privacy commissioner because we don't have those–that kind of legislation here in Manitoba.

So, not to be self-serving here, Madam Deputy Speaker, but my bill before this House right now, the protection of personal information provi–prevention of identity theft act, would provide the checks and balances needed in the private sector, that there is this, this, this gap in the legislation and, in fact, doesn't really adequately protect people. Now the intent of the bill is supportable. There's nothing wrong with the intent of this bill. There is other things in there about fines for people that actually have access to this information and would disclose personal information, and I totally agree with that.

If people have access to personal information, they should not–they should need to take an oath, which they do, it's a lifetime oath, and they should not be able to share that information and if they do, they should, there should be penalties for that. So that part of the legislation is commendable and, I think, in many ways, the bill just brings The Statistics Act into closer proximity to the FIPPA and PHIA legislation, which was amended last year, but I'm wondering if it was amended actually to provide for the amendments for this act.

However, as I have said, I do think that there is a piece of the puzzle missing here. Even though I know that many businesses are very knowledgeable of what they should and shouldn't do, and what information should and shouldn't be shared, and the extent of the information that is provided. However, there are other businesses th at are not aware of their duties to collect personal information with consent, to how that personal information can be used, how it can be disclosed and how they need to protect it.

And that isn't really a fault of businesses because they have not had the benefit, in this province, of a privacy commissioner who goes out and educates the public about these things . There are a number of businesses that, as I say, have privacy personnel, a privacy officer, they are called, just to ensure that the company knows how to protect personal information, but there are, there are others that don't. And I have had interaction with a business, of late, that wanted to collect personal information from

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2553 me, and not only personal information but personal health information. A private enterprise that wanted to do this. And when I questioned why they needed it, well, there was a legitimate, valid reason why they needed it. And I asked, well, what are you going to do with the information, and they, kind of, just said, well, it's just for our information, just, just in case. So I had a bit of a discussion as to the, the duty of care with personal information, and this particular business really had no idea that, that their records could be stolen.

They didn't understand that when their records were done with, that if they just threw them in the dumpster behind the business, that that would be wrong because people could have access to information. * (15:10) So there was, there's just this little bit of a gap in, in, in, in this province as to how personal information is treated. There's certainly good protections in the public sector with the FIPPA and PHIA legislation. There's certainly good protections at the federal level with the PIPEDA legislation which covers anybody that's doing commercial activity.

But there are businesses that have employees, and have personal information on the employees. If the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics comes and says, I want to collect–I want to survey and I want to collect some information, we would hope that that information that's being collected would be treated in such a way that it's just statistical. It's not in any way tied to the individual, but the checks and balances are not spelled out in legislation in this province because there is no privacy–private sector privacy legislation.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I look forward to passing this bill to committee to have public input on the bill and further debate on the bill. Thank you very much. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I, too, want to put a few words on the record prior to Bill 25 passing. You know, there's–one could ultimately argue the public good in terms of the collection of statistical information, and there is no doubt that there's a great value to doing that.

Census Canada, in co-operation with Manitoba Statistics, produces documents that assist us in many different ways, everything from economic activity to social planning activities. There is great, great public go od accomplished through the gathering of information.

You know, just recently, MLAs were provided a breakdown, so there–of th eir constituency, and I always said, it's amazing in terms of what sorts of information you can draw from some of these reports, and in this particular situation, you have Manitoba Stats working along with information provided, in good part, from Census Canada to be able to provide a document that really profiles a community in many different ways, whether it's the number of residents in a home to average incomes to populations, populations in certain areas. All of this stuff becomes very important.

Information is absolutely essential for many of our programs. One of the most significant programs that we have great benefit of is things such as equalization payments and transfer payments, and that is, in part, based on populations across the country. There are many demographics that are needed in order to identify, in order to better be able to service the different people in the different areas.

Well, we could talk about the good in the, and the benefits of having these organizations such as statistics Manitoba and Statistics Canada, but there's also a great deal of public concern, and I think that's something in which we also need to be giving equal, if not, some might argue, more attention to, the whole issue of privacy, esp ecially in today's day and age in terms of computers and the technology that is out there.

Virtually with a few pushes of a keyboard, a lot of information can be disseminated or acquired in split seconds virtually, Madam Deputy Speaker, and Manitobans, as indeed all Canadians, are very concerned about the whole issue of privacy. And I guess what we have before us is legislation that will further enhance the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics, and I like to think that it is taking it in both areas. In the one sense, we're recognizing the need for fines and increasing the potential fines for violations.

In another way, we're looking at expanding the way in which we have surveys conducted, and so it would appear, in principle, that there seems to be some balance, but, you know, to raise the issue in terms of with the government. As has been pointed out, there is–the member from Morris has a fairly substantial bill on the Order Paper that deals with the issue of privacy, and I think that there is a responsibility also for government to spend more time and more energy because I know first-hand just how important it is that we protect those interests.

You know, it was–I had a call just a few weeks back in which–it was from the TD bank saying, well,

2554 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 your credit card has now been cancelled. No explanation or anything of this nature, the credit card's been cancelled. There was apparently, some, some, something that went wrong and had nothing to do with my credit, but something did go wrong and they had to re-issue a credit card. And as much as, as much as, you know, it was tried to play down, Mr. Speaker, from the bank, it was quite, not only an inconvenience, but it raises the issue in terms of, well, what did actually take place? And you know I, I would suggest to you that not only am I just one of many.

I would suggest that that many is well into the tens of thousands or quite possibly hundreds of thousands of Canadians, many of which obviously are Manitobans that are, in fact, very concerned about security of information, the whole issue of privacy, and, you know, there is that black cloud that's over there. So I want to take this particular opportunity in recognizing Bill 25 in general as something that's likely in principle, in the public's bes–best interest.

But equally I would argue that there is more of a responsibility for government to start doing things that are going to protect the issue of privacy of the average Manitoban, and I really haven't seen the type of, or any legislative moves from the government in the last number of years dealing with protecting that privacy to the degree in which I believe should be done. So I would, or I should say. I have no problem in terms of Bill 25 going to committee.

But I did want to just to emphasize how important it is that we have balance between privacy versus public good when it comes to the gathering of information, and when it comes to disseminating that information how critically important that people's interests are, in fact, protected. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Madam Deputy Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill No. 25, The Statistics Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Agreed? Agreed and so ordered. Bill 27–The Gaming Control Amendment Act Madam Deputy Speaker: We will now move on to Bill No. 27, The Gaming Control Amendment Act, standing in the name of the Member for Emerson. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill amends the gaming and control act to require retailers to be registered with the Gaming Control Commission, that they sell lottery tickets on behalf of Western Canada Lottery Corporation or the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation.

In addition, the western Canadian lottery corporation is required to adopt and implement a responsible gaming po–policy. The executive director for the Gaming Control Commission is authorized to take into account the appropriateness of premises to be used when considering whether to license gaming activity and to mediate complaints by patrons about Lotteries' games conducted and managed by the Western Cana–Canada Lottery Corporation.

The executive director order-making power is expanded to allow orders to be made in respect to the lottery ticket retailer who contravenes the act, the regulation or term or condition of the retailer's registration. Madam Deputy Speaker, this, this bill was brought forward possibly, well, possibly, more especially because of insider or insider winning that's been happening or actually has been accused of happening and, apparently, it has happened in other provinces, and it has been going on for some time.

I'm, I was surprised that this bill hadn't come forward much earlier as it has been addressed in other provinces over the last couple of years. * (15:20) Madam Deputy Speaker, in Manitoba–we have a serious gambling problem in Manitoba. Eighty-five percent of Manitobans have gambled in the last year and this number has remained high for many years. Madam Deputy Speaker, we seem to be promoting, promoting a lot of, of the issues, the problems with gambling. We're very good at that. I will say that we're not, we're not real good stewards of the community when it comes to, to gambling.

I would say that we, we actually are promoting it to, to–on every street corner that we possibly can, any outlet. We, we actually should be paying a lot more attention to what our statistics are telling us and, and

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2555 spending quite a bit more money for the rehabilitation of, of gambling than what we are today. I might say that the, the percentage in–of gamblers in Manitoba identified as problem gamblers is amongst the highest in the country and, and we don't have a large population of people in Manitoba, and when we, when we have statements like that put forward, Madam Deputy Speaker, it certainly, certainly makes us wonder if we shouldn't be spending a lot more than what we have been on problem gambling.

Almost 50 percent of the people with moderate and severe gambling problems are uneducated about the statistical realities of gambling. This leads to a lot of other issues, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would suggest that, that a lot of these situations, then, that arise are–that happen is that people go to the loan sharks–as I refer to them as, but the payday loan companies. They borrow the maximum that they can possibly borrow.

Some of that money may well get home to buy a quart of milk, but a lot of it ends up into a casino or ends up in a lottery ticket someplace and the family goes without and creates a lot larger debt. In many cases, people end up losing their cars over this. They end up losing their homes over these type of things and, and so, again, I want to just keep coming back to the point that we should be spending a lot more money on, on the problem gambling in this province. We shouldn't–I would suggest–be putting ATMs in casinos such as we have just most recently in a casino here in Winnipeg.

I would suggest that as things are moving forward and, and the NDP government becomes more addicted to the revenues of gambling in this province, that it's quite conceivable that they will have a slot in the machine that you can put a debit card in, so that it'll be more convenient for the gambler to gamble away their fortune. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, many people sit there thinking, well, we've put this much into the machine, surely it's going to pay out; there is a percentage. We're going to hit that one on the next money that we put in.

The next piece of–the next $20 bill that we put in, we're going to hit the jackpot. But the jackpots are never hit. Most people need, need to understand that the game is loaded against them. However, they probably–not probably, it's, it's a well-known fact, that some of the people that are the more problem gamblers are the most uneducated in how the, the gaming–revenue gaming machines work, and it's the cash-hungry provincial government that pro–that promotes it.

They promote the Atlantic City style of gambling in the province of Manitoba, where you have the rewards–point rewa rds system, so the more you gamble, the more points you get. And it's–a lot of people can actually, Madam Deputy Speaker, a lot of people would compare this to the Zeller points where you can go and get a big screen TV or you can, you can get some other thing that you really don't need at home. You just need to be home with your family, not away getting free meals in a casino or, or a big screen TV or some other item that isn't really necessary in, in your everyday life.

But in the bill, I will say that they, they have tightened up some of the things that the, that the lottery ticket retailers have to do, and I, I would suggest that's not a bad thin g. They've, they've set up a system where one can settle disputes, and I guess there are–anytime that there's money and gambling together, you will find that there's going to be a certain amount of disputes. And I, and I have to say that they have, have tightened up the process for dealing with, with disputes if both parties consent, which probably should have been left out.

It should have been just they did or that they would be settling the disputes and instead of trying to mediate a settlement.

Section 18 increases the length of time that the commission can take to hear an appeal on a licensing or registration issue or on an order made from 14 days to 30 days. I just don't really understand extending that length of time, Madam Deputy Speaker. The commission shouldn't have to take that much extra time to, to come to a conclusion of whether there has been a, a problem at a particular outlet, and they should be able to deal with it in a much quicker time than, than the 30 days that they're now doing.

The inspectors' duties haven't changed a great deal, and I wouldn't be surprised that they've hired some more inspectors. But it, it adds, generally, monitoring integrity of lottery schemes in Manitoba, and so now what we have is we have the fox guarding the henhouse. I would suggest that any time that the inspector is going to go and tell his boss that you're doing the wrong thing and you're taking in too much money out of the lottery systems or out of any gaming system, that probably the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) will take that fellow aside and

2556 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 2, 2009 have a small talk with him. Because the Minister of Finance isn't–is addicted to the revenue that is generated by this, by this stream of funding.

Section 21 expands the order-making power of the executive director of the MGCC to allow orders to be made in respect of a lottery ticket retailer who contravenes the act. But, again, this here could take up to 30 days. One needs to deal with this in an expeditious fashion, and either, either the retailer is going to be prohibited from dealing with, with the lottery tickets or he's going to be exonerated. It shouldn't take 30 days to do this, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I would also, I would also like to point out that, that the percentage of–no, that the human impacts of problem gambling include the financial pressure that I pointed out earlier. It also impacts job loss, family breakdown, increases health- care costs, the judicial system involvement, and decreases quality of life. And here we have a government that says, we're here for the little folk; we're he re for the average person. And here we're promoting, promoting gaming at an expeditious pace, and, again, going back, we have 85 percent of the Manitobans have gambled in the last year.

We have the highest percentage of gamblers identified as problem gamblers in the country, and the government says, we're here for the average folk; we're here for the average person on the street; we're here to help you. It's always suspicious, and one should be suspicious when the government says, we're here to help you. The Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urged the provincial government to reduce its dependence on gambling, and–as a revenue source, and yet that hasn't taken place, Madam Deputy Speaker.

As a matter of fact, I've seen in the last budget that we had a deficit of $9 million in the, in a gambling column, and we also were borrowing another $50 million for Lotteries. So this, this leads one to believe that there's a possibility that they will use our, our Crown corporations to try and balance a budget that's a long way from being balanced, and I certainly hope that that isn't the case when it certainly appears that that's what they're planning to do. * (15:30) What we would like to do is we would prob–we say that this bill has moved a lot of things forward.

I think it's going to be better than it was as far as the lottery retailers go and the offences that have occurred in other places or alleged to be occurred in other places. I think that has moved that ahead, but, at the same time, Madam Deputy Speaker, we would like to see a commitment from this government to, to spend a lot more money on problem gambling and on education and prevention of, of problem gambling. So, with those few words, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'll let one of my colleagues carry on. House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker, on House business.

Madam Deputy Speaker: On House business. Mr. Chomiak: House business. And while I'm talking about hou–House business I want to–I just want to commend my counte rparts, House leaders in the other parties, for the outstanding work and trust they have provided in putting together this House order. And over the last three years we have moved towards, we have moved towards a system of an orderly transition of the House and a movement of bills over the summer, et cetera, much similar to Saskatchewan's system. We've actually overtly worked on that and we're actually somewhat achieving that.

That's usually not recognized anywhere so I'm sidetracking it in on my announcement that a slight change in the order of debate on second readings so that Bill 32 will precede Bill 28. So following conclusion of debate on Bill 27 we'll go to Bill 32, then Bill 28, then Bill 7. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker: The order of the bills has been changed. After Bill No. 27 will come Bill No. 32 and then No. 28. Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Madam Deputy Speaker: Agreed. * * * Madam Deputy Speaker: The honourable Member for Inkster, on Bill No. 27. Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Yes, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's with–actually one could say a little bit of disappointment in a sense that I would of liked to have seen some other changes to the gaming and control amendment bill or the gaming control legislation that's, that's there.

June 2, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2557 You know, over this last couple of months I've raised a couple of issues, a couple of issues that I thought were very important and I think that the government might want to, to reflect on some of the things that it is actually doing within the gaming in the province of Manitoba. Recognizing what it is that this bill is actually doing in terms of with the Gaming Control Commission and requiring those that are selling lottery tickets, and so forth, to now become–ensure that they are, in fact, registered with the appr– appropriate authorities.

You know, that's, that's, that's a good thing. You know, I don't have a problem with that. There are a number of good things that no doubt are taking place within the legislation. I wanted to, however, comment on an issue that, that I have raised with the minister and I would of liked the minister to have brought in or incorporated into this le–legislation. And one could of said or one could of classified it as a consumer, protecting our consumers here in the province of Manitoba. And what I'm referring to, Madam Deputy Speaker, is the scratch-and-win tickets.

It's an issue in which I've raised on a couple of occasions and the minister did have the ability to make some changes to the legislation that could of addressed that issue, at least in part or if not in whole, had the government had the interest of the consumer at, at heart as opposed to just Manitoba's Lotteries and collecting more money. And I appreciate what the member–how the member spoke before me about some of the problems of gam–of gambling and the gambling policy that this government has ventured into.

But with the scratch-and-win policy that's currently there, you have to appreciate the fact that we have many Manitobans, on a daily basis, that will go to these lottery outlets, and they will take a look in hopes of being able to win an instant $25,000, or an instant $50,000 by the, the scratch tickets, Madam Deputy Speaker. What, what many of them do not realize–and some might argue, including myself, that most do not realize–is that, quite often, the grand prize has already been won.

And sadly, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government is aware of many grand prizes that have already been won, but they allow the tickets to be sold to the consumer still. Yet the consumer believes that the grand prize has not been won. Well, what is, what's the government's official response to it? Official response: consumer beware, go to the Internet, find out whether or not what scratch-and-win tickets have actually wo–the grand prize for those tickets have been won.

And as long as the consumers did that, they had nothing to fear because we will post it on the Internet, that the grand prizes of whatever ticket has, has been won. Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government knows full well that that's just not good enough. It's not practical. You know, if–there are other jurisdictions in North America that have come to that conclusion and have taken action to protect the consumer and when asked a question why this government hasn't, has not done likewise.

I would like to think that when we bring forward legislation of this nature that the government would have given some serious consideration to the issue that I have, that I have raised. I would suggest to you if members checked with their constituents that they would find that, indeed, it is not appropriate for government to allow this to continue to take, to take place. And at the very least–and I would suggest, if you wanted to use it as an example–if you have two scratch and wins where there's a grand prize of $25,000 in, in each one and the moment that one is actually claimed and then you put a sign.

Imagine then if you put a sign on the one that has been actually won. I would suggest to you that the people that are coming to scratch and win will stop purchasing that ticket in fa vour of buying the ticket in which they know that the grand prize has not been won because what they're doing is they're purchasing in hopes of, in hopes of getting that, that grand prize. So some might argue that you are stealing the dreams from some of these Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. You're misleading Manitobans by allowing it, so why not?

Why not have something that's a little bit more protective of our consumers and how–and a change in this legislation.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-51b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 51b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a875c89dac798db308cb71001b65e3a38983e239

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