VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSC!UP'!' aOUSE OF ASS~~LY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, AUGUST 7, 1979 NO. 17

August 7, 1979 'lhe !!cuse met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in tile Chair. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECXFORO: Tape 586 EC- 1 Order, please! ST.A!l'EMENTS 3'l tUNIS'l'EaS The hon. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, on August 6th. 1durinq C:On&idara.tion by the Government Services Committee of the Estimates of tha Department of Transportation and Communications, the minister of tlla.t department (Mr. Bratt) was qUBried as to wilether a detailed report on the road raamstruction and pavinq projects was available to members.

The minister advised the Committee that this information wa.s available to IIIIU!bers and the genera.! public shortly after the and of eac:i'l fiscal year. I might mantion that the member tor Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) on tlu:ee occasions indicated to the minister that this was sat:isfac:tcry. Subsequently, tha hon. the !.eader of the Opposition raised the matter in the Howse and indicated that some 1118111bers were not satisfied that the information was not ta.bled before the Government Services Committee. Therefore, !-tr. Spealter, r nave decided, and I wish to inform this hon.

House, despite those differing opinions on the matter, J: will be ta.blinq the list of projects for the current fiscal year within the next twenty-four hours. The Department of Transportation and Communications will have to compile this information and is in the process of doing so, and it is anticipated that the information will be ready for distribution for tomcrrow' s sittinq. Mr. Speaker, this government is onalc.ing every effort to pursue a policy of openness in government in all matters affecting tl'le public of this Province.

The ta.bling of this infor.~~ation is in keepinq with this policy, and as the hen. members know, the Minister of Rura.l, Aqricultural and Nort.!1ern :::levelopment (Mr. Goudie) previously announced that t."le number and amount ot loans issued by his depart::ment will also be t.aDled. In titis regard, some members of the Opposition nave =equested that the names of those people who have received loans or grants from the Rural Development Authority be made public. 1477 .,

Auqust: 7, 1979 Tape 586 EC - 2 PREMD:R. i'ECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, t wist!. to advise this hen. neuse that the policy rela.tinc; to the tablinc; of thi5 kind of into:aaa.tion is UDder review by cabinet. t believe, Sir, that sovarmant, in reviewing this lll&ttar, IIIUSt be absolutely certain that individuals doinq business with gavernmant are DOt compromised. in any way.

Moreover, Sir, it is my view that any such policy IIIUSt not only rel.a.ta to the Rural Development Authority but also to the Fislleries Loan Board and to the Farm t.oa.n Board. tn other words, it must be a consistent policy for all. qo'ftrnmant aqancies in~lved in the issuinc; of qrants and loans for whatever pU%pose • Clearly 1 a. number of factors IIIUSt be taken into consideration, and, aa t i-:~ave stated, cabinet will be qivinq this question a. thorouqh review. As soon aa cabinet h.aa made a. policy decision on this uatter, this non. Hause vill be so advised. 'I'h,mk you, Mr. Speaker. ., SOME HON.

MEHBEllS; Hear, h. ear! MR. SPEAXER: (Simms l The hcn. th.e IIIBIIIl::ler for Terra Neva. lm. LDSR: Mr. Speaker, I am deliqhtad that the Premier h.a.s decided to present us vith this particul.a.r list, deliqhted because I was the person wil.o raised it, who asked three times in t!l.a. · Colllllli ttee-and I could not understand or appreciate the Premier ' s sta.taDant that tb.ere was some discrepancy, some difference of opinion between myself and th.e b.on. tb.e t.ea.der of the Opposition; indt!1!d, there = was net.

I had asked thrae times for the infonra.tian of the Collllllittee to be ta.bledj indeed, I wa.s • 1478

L.< ,.---, I I \ .I \.- r '· L (· L .. (j'" i L. c --.· L, AU91J.St 7, 1979 Tape No. 587 DW - l MR. '1'. LUSH: goinq to propose a motion to ask the minister to do it when he did not aqree. !!ut,of oourse,Uiider- stand.inq the struc:ture 1I knew that we would not win it by the 111Dtion1 so I thOuc;ht that I would brine; it to the House of ASaembly 1throaqh the-leader 1where I knew that qreater loc;ic: would prevail. So I am happy that the Premier went alcmq with this and I think everybody on both sides will be the happier bec:ause we 11ave rece.ived this liat and particularly the people of Newfoundl.:md.

Thank you. SOME IIJN. MEMBEl!S : Hear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) The hon. the IIIBmber for .:.al'oile. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my question is dire .eted to the hon. the Premier, Sir. I would like to ask the hon. qentleman if he can tell us about some reviews in the operation of Newfoundland KazdMoods that is takinq place at the present time that will involve the shut-down of the plywood plant at Newfoundland e:ardwoods with the layoff of some ei~hteen to twenty employees down there in that operation riqht here at Donovans. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. • 1479 '

A~ust 7, l979 TaJ?e No. saa SD - l P~IIER PECl<FORD: Hr. Speaker, I will qet the information for the hon. Mlllber tor tcmorrcw. ;om. SPEAKER: (Simms) The hon. Le~er of the Opposition. MR. D. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, I b.ave a question for tile bon. the Premier. Is b.e in a position to indicate to the !:louse the outcome of h.is discussions tocia.y 1 if they have already taken place with the Federal lti.nister of Interprovincial Relations (~lr. w. Jarvis) or to give SCIIIIe genera..l S\lllllllary of the kiDiis of ma.tters dlat may have :bean disc-.1ssed alld h.is reaction to them? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER PEOCFORD: Yes, I thank the hon. Leader of tlle Opposition for asking me the questions, Mr. Speaker, because I did '"ant to be a.ble to inform the !:louse of the meeting this morning. I met with i'ir. Jarvis, the m.inister responsi.:bl.e for Federa1/t'rovincia1 Rel.ations, and reviewed witl"l him a num.ber of matters that the Prime liinister of the countl:y wanted raised by Mr. Ja.rvi.s with me aDii all the other Premiers. And ~1r. Jarvis nas now visited a. c., Alberta, Saskatchewan, lianito:ba and is now doiDq the Eastern part of the count-ry. The first matter discussed, :1r.

S;>eaker, :1ad to do with the holding of a National Conference, a First Ministers' Conference, on the economy sometime this Fall. The second issue had to deal with the calling of a constitutional Conference and when that would be most appropriate. There is some indication that one could have a Firs-.: Ministers' Conference on the economy and. the Constitution at the same time.

My own view and that of a number of my colleagues on ~~t is that would not: be advisa.ble,tbat we would rather see a E:conOlllic Conference, a E' irst .tinisters' Conference on nothing only the economy and let us concentrate ow: efforts on that, and the constitutional review process should be left until tne Spring, albeit no later than t.'le Spring. And thirdly, t.'lat the whole question oi energy '"as an 1480 -,

..--. I ( · ' i ·' I \ ~ l. August 7, 1979 Tape No. saa SD - 2 cY\l P REMU:R PECKFO.RD: extremely important'\ anci should be pe~ps a pare of the Fil:st Conference on the economy in the Fall. Outside of tbcse ~~~attcrs, I then reviewed. with the minister ~~~attars of concern tc the Province and that related pr.imaD.ly to the transfer of jurisdiction on offshore am:!. that we would very soon be ready to c0111111Wlicate to the Prime :tinister and tc l"lr. Jarvis' office a ilQSition on ilgw this could ~est be affected because we have been worltinq on it since early i-lay.

And also the whole question of fisheries jurisdiction and. ~t we ~e in the process of cOIIIIIIU:D.icatinq with the M.iniater of Fisheries (Mr. J. 1(CGrathl in Ottawa on that point )nt:JW in the nu:t couple of days and th.at we would see the fisheries jurisdiction one as being part of the constitutional review process if some interim arrangements can be arrived at. Then we talked generally ~ut otber ~~~atters dealillq with the Trans-canada Highway, 'CNR, Labrador power and Labrador tranapcrtation development. I indicated. to Mr.

Jarvis that the five year plan wil.ich b.as started, the process has started, that we would. be in a position within bolo to three months to present a. fully rational plan of development for the Province as related t:o transportation and resource development to the Government of Canada for a five year period. and than would ask for their reaction to it, :lllt in the meantime, we would. be very soon pursuinq tile question of transfer of jurisdiction offshore in the interim and a numl:ler of outstanding DREE agreements which would have tc be signed tmminently. i1R. D. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker. . 1481 '

/. I. r~ L I I ( .. AU9USt 7, 1979 Tape No. 599 OW - l MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : 11. supplementary, the hon. t.ader of the Opposition. MR. 0 • .JAMIESON: I do not wish to monopolize the Question Period,and my collea9Ues haw a nUIIIber of questions to ask, but that report of t!"'e Premier's raises a number of questions.! will perhaps spread them out over a couple of days. With reqard to the timing 1 I 1 by the way 1 thorouqhly aqree that the economic conference should take precedence in the liqht of the forecast:sthat we have been hearinq and which are 1110rrisome to everybody and particularly to us in Ne~dland.

But on the matter of the constitution,! am not sure if it was in the Throne Speech or in·scme other document 1an indication was given by the government that there was to be a public ai.rinq I or soaa form of discussion among the public on the constitutional position i'rck:_l_.Q..... which the Newfoundland Government wil~ ~..s.EU to advance. I think I am interpreting that correctly.

Given then that the constitutional Conference clearly cannot go beyond the Sprinq of next year 1which gives it,say, eiqht months or so, what kind of time frame does ~~e Premier anticipate for putting before the public of Newfoundland these constitutional issues which,while they may sound a bit airy-fairy,perhaps,to same people are nevertheless of vital importance since ,as the Premier says 1he is linkinq such t."lings as offshore and fisheries with them? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. P:REMIER PECXFORD: Well, lott'.

Speaker, I view the offshore as being somewhat special and outside of the normal constitutional review process. I think mos·t people would agree to that, that there has been a fair amount and there has been a ;.nti.te Paper and so on as it relates to our requlations and the position that Newfoundland takes, the Heritaqe of the Sea document and so on. AN HON. MEMBER: On offshore? P:REMIER PECKFORD : On the offshore. on every other constitutional question 1 we are now reviewing them and hopefully by this Fall we will be in a pos±tion to issue a statement as to what the Province's position 1482

\ ~ ' I . !. August 7, 1<:>79 Tape No. 589 ow - 2 would be so that we would have time :!!or public discussion and debate before the Constitutional conference in the Spring. MR. D. JAMIESON: A supplementary, !-lr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hen. Leader of the Opposition. MR. D. JAMIESON: One final supplementary for this afternoon.

With regard to oj!fshore,which the Premier has indicated is a sepa%ate kind of isne, d:1d llis discussiollll with the Minister of Federa.l-Provincia.l !~elations qo so far as to indicate whether or not the issue is qoing to be resolved on a NeWfoundland/Ottawa basis or is it in fact a I I Provincial/Ottawa ba•is? That is, is ~~e contemplated change 1one that is going to be primarily on the basis of Newfoundland's special claim or are we now in a way being lUIIPed in with all of the other provinces in the manner in which this is going to be negotiated or discussedi ' MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : lfon. Premier.

P!!EMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker, we are looking at this in a bilateral way between the Province of Newfoundland and the Government of canada at this point in :time. Additional detail on that point and other points which are rat.~er technical of that nature are now being reviewed and communication to the Prime ~nister will be occurring in the next number .. of weeks, within this month. MR. D. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Leader of the Opposition. I!IR.

D • JAMIESON : FO:rqive me .I am sorry, I repeat, to take up so much time but I do not want to leave that particular issue dangling if I can get a little bit mere information from the Premier on it. Is he saying now that Newfoundland will negotiate with Ottawa on the basis of,what I have called in the past ~nd 1483

( .. August 6, 1979 Tape No. 590 NM - l MR. JAMIESON: what hon. members opposite have called the •special claim.' or are we in the position/ as undertaken by the Prime Minister 1that he is prepared to make the same kind of concession to all of tha Eastern Provinces at least? I am not sure what his attitude is with regard to the others. I think the Premier will get the gist of my question. In other words 1 do we have to now negotiate in company with the Maritime Provinces m Quebec 1 or are ~ going to continue on in a way which will put the Newfoundland case and its special status forward independently? MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hen. the Premier. PREMIER PEOFORD: Mr. Speaker, I think the Leader of the Opposition is sorting of askinq me for s0111e federal position, If the Prime Minister of Canada's position has to do with the transfer of jurisdiction for all the provinces, that is a position of the federal government. All that the Province of Newfoundland is interested in at thl.s time is seeing that there is a transfer of jurisdiction to the Province of !lewfoundland and Labrador.

If the Prime Minister and the ~ederal Cabinet so desire it, consider it expanient to see that tna.t kind of transfer of jurisdiction is also offered to the other Province,sobeit, and that is quite in order for either the Federal Cabinet or the Prime M:Ln.ister to do. we vTill be talkinq to the Federal Government directly about the transfer of jurisdiction of offshore ownership as it r~tes to the Province of Newfoundland. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Grand Bank, then the hen. member for Lewisporte, followed by the han. member for Port au Port if time permits. MR. L. THOMS: Mr.

Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Energy. !\.s the minister knows 1 when Ale an unceremoniously pulled out of St. Lawrence 1 ~~ey held the surface rights to large tracts of land around St. Lawrence. Some people have been trying to obtain some of this property for cattle raising and have not 1.484 ·' '

c I l .. ( 1_ : (_, ' \. /', l L [ ,-_ 1 I { I t ·- Auc;Wit 6, 1979 Tape No. 590 NM- 2 MR. L. THOMS: been qettiJ:lq QIUCh satis .faction fram Alc;u~• My question is: did the surface riqhts to this property revert to the Province .,_fter Al.can pulled out, and if they d.id not revert to the .Province what does this q~t intend. to do? In my own opinion I think we sbould yank the stuff back frOJD th-. MR. SPEAKER (S.tmalsJ : The hon. Minister of Mines and Enerqy. MR. B.JUUtY: M:r.

Spealcar, this is an example of the inadequacy which existed in <10m& of the a~eements cSauck in the past there was no provision, as I Wl4ersta.nci it, in the aqreement with Alcan surface rights t~te at the close of .mini.nq operatiODS. 'l'his government has recet:ttly ~qht in ' 1485

.- Auqust 7, 1979 Tape 591 PK - l Mr. Barry: a new Minerals· Act back in 1976, I think lt was 1 and that Act now provides that at the termination of ail.y mining operation, ( · within a period of five years the rights, all rights related to it, including surface rights 1 revert back to the C.¥Own.

It is our intention to bring before this aouse a proposed amendment to have the Minerals- Act apply to the Alcan operation, so that if once that amendment is passed the Act would then become applicable the Minerals Act,as you know1 is not now applicable to all mining operations, only to future ones, but with this amendment we propose r ·· to make it applicable to the Alcan operation. MR. ROBERTS: Only to Alcan or all of them? , . MR. SABRY: We have to consider. I would like to have it applicable to all but I am not sure.'that that is going to be feasible. we will look at that possibility.

In which case the surface rights, assuming that that ' was passed in the next session, say, the surface right~ you could anticipate~ive years from the close down would be what? - another three years before they would become available. I believe you have to give a certain period of time because there could be a possibility of another startup, another operator coming in 1 when one terminates, ( (. and reactivating a mine. You have to have a period of grace there -... ithin which this sort of thing could come about. MR. SPEAKER (S:IMMSl: The hon. member for Lewisporte. MR. WHITE: Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) or the Premier, but probably the Government House Leader.It relates to coverage of the House by the media. As the minister knows 1 I have been attempting for some time now to I get a resolution on the order Paper in the last few sessions relating to T.V. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WHITE: What I want to ask the Government House Leader about now is whether the government is in agreement with the 1.486

r-· (_":. i I ' '· ,... I (.' i l.· I A.ugust 7, 1979 Tape 591 PI< - 2 Mr. White: possibility of letting the press, the electronic media, use the audio tapes from the House directly on air, if they so desire, in terms of a clip or something like that which would greatly speed up coverage of the House and help the media as wall, wheth•r or not the government would be in agreement with letting the media use the audio from the aouse? MR. SPEAJ:ER CSD!MS): The hon. President of the Council .• MR. !o!ARSHALL: Mr.

Spe~er, the whole question of broadcasting the proceedings of the a:ouse has many aspects to it and many ambits to it. The broadcasted procedure in any form or telecasting would certainly chanqe radically the character of the House and the characteristic of the way the House is carried on. We are in a new age,o.i:nriously,where this kind of media is one of the major means of ccmmunication. AU. I can say to the hen. member is that it is ., a matter of ongoing consideration, m.d that the government is still in the process of conside~ing the situation. MR. loiHITE : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER A supplementary, the hon. member for Lewisporte . 1487

r· I L [ -· c , ...... ' ' ~ .. ,·-- . ' -· August 7,1979 Tape t<o. 592 AH-l MR.. WHITE: Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader says the gove:mment is still in the process of considerinq. I wonder il be could c;ive the House some information on wMt they are considerinq in texms of a oOIIIIIi. ttee or makinq arran~ts to have b.earinqs on this matter so that - can get scme idea of what time frame we are t:al.lcinc; about? MR. SPEADR: The b.on. President of the Council. Hearinqs, Mr. Speaker? r think you only hold hearings when you wut to find out information.

I think everybody really knows the nature, the impact and the diLference and. the chuqe and the effect it would have on the operations of the proc:eedin91of the House. So - are not at the present staqe eontemplatinc; a meetinc; as such 1but the gove:m~~~~~nt in the course of its dut:y to govern the Province is considering it. You know ,it is a matter, as I say, is under active consideratior& and there is nothinq 110re I ean add to it1 really. MR. SPEA!CER: Port. MR.HOOCER: The hen. member for Port au Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. Minister of Education.

I am· wcnderinq if the lllinister, and I • sun she IIIWit be aware o:f this because it is an object of SOllie controversy in her department, does the minister or the Department of Education intend to accept for school use the series of fil.llls known a. the Herit!qe Series and I believe the other series is called the Row To Series , how to develop small business and all that sort of tbinc; which was commissioned by , I believe, the Premier's o:ffice and made by McConnell Advertising? MR. SPEAJ:ER: The hon. Ministe ·r of Education. MRS V'FRGE: Mr.

Speaker, the department does intend to use the Heritaqe films and the How To Series in tbe schools. 14BS '

( '· '· Auqust 7 ,1979 '!'ape No. 592 AH-2 MRS VE:RGE: This ! believe will be done in tlle ccminq school year. ! do not· have the eetails of hew those filllls will be incorporated into school proqr-s 1 but it is an intention on the part of the depil%tlllent to use that material. MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAXER: (Si.mlas) member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: A supplementary. A supple~Denta:r::y. 'nle hon. Is it the practice of the Education Department to accept filllls from outside sources ?

And wc>uld not the minister aqree that filllls of this type would be better either purclu .. ed or developed - I believe the Department of Education has the eapabillty of developing fillls of this type- would it not be more to the interest of the Department of Education to develop their awn films rather than have them foisted on them by the Premier's office? MR. SPEAKER: Education. MRS VERGE: The hon. Minist•r of Mr. Speaker, t.'lis material is new available and I understand that it is quite hi gil quality.

The subjects of the Heritage films are characters, persons and events of historical significance for our own Province and since this good quality material is already available it will be used by the depaztllent. We are 1489

r · / ) \ \. August 7, 1979 Tape 593 EC - 1 ~. VERGE: reviewing our policy dea.l.i.ng ~tith llSe of locally published material, however. MR. iiODDEll: Mr. Speaker, a silpplementary. MR. SPEAKER: (Si.mms) A supplemantary, ~a hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. I:IODDEll: I was amazed by the ~ter 's answer tllat the films were of qood quality Zlecal.lSe I ~mderstand that there has been a lot of criticism voiced about the films and, in fact, my information is that they of notoriously bad quality and some of t.IJ.am are really not worth usinq and that they will not go in~ every sc:hcol.

My question to the minister is, Onder what circumstances were the films purchased. f=om. McConnell Advertising and ~mder what c.irCWDStances were the Department of Education asked to uae the films? Was it forced or did the request coma from the Department of Education I MR. SPEAKER.: The hon. the Minister of Education • MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaiter, I de not have t.'l.at info:tllliltion as to now t.'le f.illlls ~tere purc:ilased or now they were obtained by the department, :Cut I will undertake tc qat it for the hen. member. ~. liOOOER: Mr. Speaker, a. 3upplementary. MR.

SPEAl<ER: A final. supplementary, the hon. the me!IIQer for Port a.u Port, followed by the non. the member for aaie Verte White aay. MR. HODDER: A supplementary to the Premier. Could the Premier tell Ill! under what c.irCUIIIStances the films were developed and whether there had been a. request from the Department of Education, and, in fact, whether the curriculum consultants in the Depaz+..me.nt of Education l:lad asked for those films 1 how much. they cost and how much . .,ill the cost of duplicating those films be? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the I' remier. PREMIER ?ECCFORD: I do not have a clue, Mr.

Spealter, but I will ~mdertak.e to ge-e the information. I know there are films on the ·.,ay a.t the Depa.rtlnent of Education. I do not know if the hen. member is getting at somethi.nq that ! do not - I do not appreciate t.'l.is - MR. HODDER: (Inaudible) McConnell Advertising. 1490

{- c­ L r-. \ __ . ·. Auqust 7, 1979 Tape 593 EC - 2 PREMIER PECCFORD: Oh, :f8S, McConnell Adv.rtisi.nq. Gaoc1. Well, we will !inci out for the hen. liiQber anci table the ~o:cu.ticn indicating costs, whatever is necessary to table, whatever costs were incurraci anci whether, in fact, it was requasteci by the Department of Education or requested by whom. Whatever the bon. member wants in that line ha can llave. MR. !iOODER: A fina.l. suppl~tary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAXER: {Simms) Order, please! I belleva I allowed you a final supplementary before. 'nl.e hou. the Belllber for aa.ie Verte - White aay. MR.

RCBERrS: Ask for a final final supplement=Y. MR. RIDEOU'l': Mr. Speaker, my question is for the hon. the Minister of Finance (Or. J. COl.Unsl. I believe a number of weeks ago the minister met with the Premier of Quebec and it was s-ubsequently reported in the Dieciia by t:he :uinister 1 and I belleva also in an interview in 'I'he Toronto Gl.obe and Mail with the Premier of Quebec, that the Quabec Premier was qivinq so- serious consideration to at least I openi.nq ~ for neqotiation 1 the power contract between Newfoundland !iydro or the ?rovince of N-found..land and the ·Province of Quebec.

COul.d the minister tell us whether there has been any follow-up on that bit of bait thrown out by the Quabec Premier, whether there has been any discussion with him since and if, indeed, anything concrete has been achieved al.onq those lines? 1.491.

r- t_ _ c· I t - ,.~ \ ) , .. i I '· •. { Auqust 6, 1979 Tape No. 594 NM- 1 lo!R. SPEAKER (S.in'ans) : The hen. Jo'.inister of Finance. OR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think the best way o~ answering that 1 is to say that there is a Premiers' Conference arranged in the very near future. MR. OTTENHEL~: Next Wednesday. OR. J. COLLINS: I believe next Wednesday 1 for several days from next Wednesday,and I have no doubt that the hon. the ?r~mier will be pursuing any discussions needed on that particular subject. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for l!aie Verte-White Say. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that the Premier of Que.bec has openly indicated 1 at least if we can believe press reports and I believe the hen. Minister of Finance sort of said that it was so when he came back from the trip, in view of the first steps being taken by the Premier of Quebec along this very important line 1 could the minister tell us whether or not any steps have been taken at all by this government to follow up on at least the indication that the Province of Que.bec ~ght be willing to talk about the renegotiation of the power contract?

Certainly goodness this government has not waited a couple of mon~~s now and done nothing about ~~e almost open invitation given to them by the Premier of Quebec? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. speaker, I would suggest that negotiations with Que.bec are only done after a careful consideration and this government certainly has been considering its position carefully in ~~e meantime 1and the Premiers' Conference coming up in the near future really is the first opportunity to go into the matter further. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the non. member for ~~e Straits of aelle Isle. :-I:R. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I have listened to the han. the minister's answers, I just want to be sure of one thing, what he is saying is he has done nothing, and the government have done nothing in 1492

I '· r· ' j I. r-· I I \ __ _ , _ _ I ·- \. '· August 6, 1979 Tape No . 594 NM - 2 MR. ROBERTS: response to the bait, hooked or not as it may have been, proffered by the Prime - he calls himself the Prime Minister, it does not matter, the Premier of Quebec. 'liould the minister confirm or deny it straight out; has he done anything, has the government done anything or not? ~. SP!:AXER (Simms) : The hen. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: 1-lr. Speaker, if the hon. opposition_ aouse Leader is asking if we have had meetings with Monsieur Levesque over this matter,the answer is no.

If the hon. member is asking has this government given any thought to the matter of the development of hydro electric power in Labrador and possible connections thereto with the Province of Quebec, the answer is yes. MR. ROBERTS : A supplementary . :o!R. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hen. member for the Straits of Selle Isle. ..m. ROBERTS : Really I thank the minister and obviously he is gone as far as he is going to go so _we will come back at another time, another place on that point.

I just want to know whether the minister will make public -I realize you cannot negotiate publicly - will the ~nister make public the lines along which he thinks the government should proceed,since I read into his answer they are prepared ~o open negotiations with Quebec, as they should be in my view, would he make public 1493

' l .. \ . .- ,. . .... ... August 7,1979 Tape 595 PK - 1 Mr. Roberts: the general lines along which he thinks negotiations - when I say should proceed, I do not mean the tactics, I mean the strategy towards which we should aim - ·Nhat are we trying to do? Are we trying to renegotiate the contract to gat more mcney, to call it back or just what? MR. SPEAXER (SIMMS) : OR. COI.LINS: for our Province 1 The hen. Minister of Finance. Mr.

Speaker, this opens a very important area ·f /' . and I think all~uld say at this time is that " I have no doubt whatever that the hen. the Premier will be reporting on the substance of his talks with the other Premiers,including the Premier of Que.bec 1 on his return from the planned conference. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . member for taPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins).

Judging by the number of phone calls that are reaching ~ office in connection with people who worked in the June 18 election that have not been paid 1 ,;auld the hen. gentleman indicate to the Rouse if all of the cheques have been sent out? If they have not been sent out for people who rented ~eir homes and people who ~e hired on as poll clerks and agents and returning officers and so forth that they have not been paid, could the minister - first of all, I would like to ask the hen. gentleman if the cheques have gone out?

And if they have gone out 1 wi11 the hen. gentleman check and see if all of the cheques have been mailed out to the people who were involved in the June 18 Provincial election? MR. SPEAKE.'!.: ":"he hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr • . Speaker, I ~ not really in a position to know if all of these matters have been processed by the Chief Electoral Officer, but I certainly will see if that has been so 7 and I will ~ see if the Department of Finance has done what it is suppos~to do in that · regard. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Bonavista North. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A continuation of a question I asked Mr. House - 1.494

~ I ' . ( . I r •, A.uqust 7, 1979 Tape 595 P!C - 2 MR. MARSHALL: The hon. member. MR. SPEAKER {SIMMS} : Order, please! You nave to refer to hon. members by their title or their district. MR. STIRLING: I am sorry. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We. have. been meeting in Col!llllittees mcrning and evening, and at the Collllllittee. level th.e Chai:cnan has gotten ":lS into the habit of referring to people on their first names. I apologize if I have made it any great breach.. I certainly 'loiOUld not want Mr. House to be thrown out. SOME liON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

STI:RL!NG: aut anyway, the hon. minister did not have the answers and he referred me to blo other ministers. The question is the same question; how many of the thirty-three recommendations of the Task Force study on the fluoride have been completed? ae referred part of it to the OeparO!Ient of Labour and Manpower and the other part to Consumer Affairs and ~vironment. The second pan of 'w0,~ that question, it is a two•part question, has the general public been - /\ . warned that berries in the area of a number of miles of that plant are contaminated or might be contaminated? The Minister of Health (Mr.

House)did not have the answer. MR. S?E;\JCER: The non. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. speaker, in anticipation of getting that sort of question in the House of Assembly, I did prepare a reply. 1495

r- r· l . .. -. August 7, 1979 Tape No. 596 OW - 1 MR. DINN: there are thirty-three recommendations. I have the answers for the hon. lllelllber on all thi:::ty-three. It ...ould take some time to qo t!trouqh all thirty-three this after­ noon but I can if hon • members wish. MR. E • ROBERTS : Why not table them in Hansard'? Why not append them in Ransard'? MR. DINN: Yes, -11, I can do exactly that, table it and have it appendixed. MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, on that point 1 if I may be allowed to reSllOnd to the hon. member for aonavisu. North (Mr .

Stirlinq) 1 if there is additional information that tl·te hon. member wants in addition to what the Minister for Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) just offer.ed in the absl!!nce of the !'..inister of Consumer Affairs and Environment (Mrs. Newhook) , I •.till under+-ake to see whether they have additional information that we can provide t.'te hon. member in a day or tliiO. The hon. minister is away today at a funeral in Gander. MR. L. STIRLING: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the biJn. l:le!llber for Bona vista North. MR. L • STIRLING: We can probably qet the answer very quickly.

The question was recommendation 29rrecommended that the public be warned that the berries might be contaminated. He might be able to give us the answer to that very quickly because we are in the blue­ berry season. some people may qet poisoned. MR. SPEAKER: Are you addressing your question to the hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower? MR. L • STIRLING : ~·!R. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: ~es. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. t~r. Speaker,I ... just went to the table and got twenty-eight and twenty-nine Department of Consumer Affairs and ~nvironment - 1.496 '

.---. ' ( , . August 7, 1979 Tape No. 596 DW - 2 !oUt. DINN: tests ~,e water supply and advise people of the coiiiii!Wlity. That is twenty-eight, I guess. Twenty-nine - well, I c!o not have the answer to twenty-nin~ It refers to the Department of consumer Affairs and Environment. 'l'he hon. Premier will get that answer. ~. Si'El\XER (SIMMS) : Order, please! The tilne for - MR. OINN: Mr. Spealcer,just to tell the hon. member that it is recommended that people who do have garden vegetables and things in that area that ~,ey wash them before they are eaten. ~. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has expired. PRESENTING REPORTS 3Y STANDING AND SPECI:AL COMMITTEES ~- SPEAKER: The h.on. :nember for Stephenville. MR. STAGG: This is a report from the Government Services COIII!IIittee.

The Government Services committee have considered the various Keads of expenditure referred to it and wl..h to report having passed Head Number 19, Municipai Affairs and Housinq 1 wi~,- out amendment: Head ~umber 18 , Public Works and Services,without amendment; Head 17, Transportation and communications, without amend- ment; Head 4, Finance 1 without amendment; Head 51 Labour and Manpower, wi~,out amendment, and will sit again upon request of this hon. House. SOME HON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E • ROBERTS : Mr.

Speaker, I do not think this is debatable and even if it is ! do not intend to debate it. ! just wantedcto "'" raise perhaps a point of order of procedure because this is "bit of an historic moment. The hon. and learned gentleman for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) has just presented the first reoort,at least in my time, of a committee on the Estimates presented to the House. Do I understand that the procedure now is ~his,~erely as the motion stands, 1497

r l L. r· I l_, ,-·- .. L. Auqust 7, 1979 Tape No. 596 OW - 3 !'!R. E • ROBERTS : and. in due course the GOvernment House Leader (Mr. Marshall) will on a government day call the report as an item of gove:cuaent business ana then we will have the so-called. concurrence debate'? Is that the proc:eciure to be followecii MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : MR. W. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. That is t.'le proc:eciure ,. Mr. Speaker, T!,,,; ~ " report now will be recliiveci presently and we will then put it on the Order Paper and. it will be called. as a concurrence debate. MR. E.

ROBERt'S: (Inaudible) So we Adopt the mgtion to receive the report ana t:hen in dUe course another motion is li'Cveci saying that- MR. W. MARSHALL: It will appear on the Order Paper and we will call it in the orciinary course of events on the Order Paper and. of course then it is provided in the rules that there are three hours to debate .: but we have aqreed that the extra time will be divicied equally betwaen the collllllittaes. MR. E • ROBERTS : Around. three hours. MR. W. ~HALL: It will come out roughly about that. MR.

SPEAKER: Just to clarify technicality;there will be no motion now to accept the report • MR. ROBERrS: &o, presently. MR. SPEAKER: It will be referred to the Order Paper and then called at that time. MR. ROBE.R'rS : Then there will be a motion to concur. Yes. NOTICES OF MOTION MR. 3PE.Ali:ER: The hon. Minister of E"inanCP.. 1m. COLLINS : Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow move that this gouse resolve itself into a eommittee of ~'le 'Nhole to consider certain resolution related to t.'le '"Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957." And I give notice that I will on tomo~w 1498

.• ~ -1 . ... l 1 \.. .~ Auqust 7, 1979 Tape NO. 596 OW - 4 DR. COLLINS: 1110ve that this Rouse resolve itself into a co~ttee of the Whole to c:onsider certain resolutions relati.nq to the raisinq of loans by the Provi.nee. And I give notic:e that I will on tomi:Jrrow a.sk leave to 1110ve that the House resolve itself i:ilto a Colllllittee of the Whole to c:onsiaer certain resolutions for the qranti.nq of supplementary s-apply to !ier Majesty. I qive notice that I will on tamorrow aslt leave to intro4uce a bill entitled, "An ACt Respect.inq An Increase n certain Pensions. " 1499

(. August 7,1979 Tape No. 597 AH-1 !4.R. SPEJUCER: ( S.imlas) Justice • MR. OTTENHEIMER: The hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker, I qive notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a hill entitled, ~An Act To Enable Onifund Limited To Beccme A Federal Corporation.~ 000 MR. NEAR%: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAn:R: A point of order. The member for LaPoile. !4.R.

NEARY: The hon. the Premier ,Sir, offered to ql!lt me SOllie information, he told lMI he would have it in a day or two1 in connection with Mount Scio House from ~emorial Oniversity but the hon. qentll!lllan has not qiV811. the House the information yet. AN FION • .MEMBER: or!ier. !".R. NEARY: He made a c:oznmi.tment to qet the - MR. SPEAli:ER: The hon. ~nister - no. That is not a point of It is a point of order. To the point of order. MR. BARRY: (Inaudible) after the point of order, Mr. Speaker. lOt.

SPEJlJCER: On the point of order. ! would have to rule there does not appear to be a point of order at this ;!articular point in time. Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: The hon Minister of Mr. Speaker, in response to a question by the member for Port au Port (Mr.Hodderl concerning whether the government vas qoinq to release the study which had been carried out in the Stephenville - Port au Port - Bay St. George area~ this study was prepared in March 1979. A consultant was engaged by the 1500

l _ r L. r ( -- r l .. \ L [ [ [ [ [ r l .. l._ ---- ----- - - August 7,1979 Tape No. 597 AH-2 MR. BARRY: Department of Industrial Development. It vu funded jointly by the Department of Industrial DeVllloplllll!ll.t and by CREE. It cost &l.most $73,000.

The objectifts of the study were to identify the physical and human resources of the area; to review the possillilities of eCODOlllic activities and to estimate the potential viability of the various opportunities for economic a.ctivit:y . and to outline the -~• necessary for their impleJMntation . and to identify sources of venture capital. to try and stimulate the econcmy in the area. Nov the consultant has: l. Reviewed e%istinq reports and other relevant data. 2. Contacted resource departments on all levels of qove:rnment. J. Interviewed local businesses and development a.qencies. 4.

Identified potential investors fro11 outside the area. 5. Oetenti.ned and descrilled the resources of the area and their potential utilization. 6. Assessed the inf:ra.tructure of the area and identified neeess&ry improvements to accomcdate economic growth. 'l'he study area wu divided into three reqions: the Port au Port Peninsula, the Stephenville - Stephenville Crossinq area, and the Bay St. Georqe ;area and develo~t priorities were detarmined for each of the subdivisions.

Opon receipt of the report the staff of the Department of Industrial Development were a.ssiqned to follow up on the induatriU opportunities identified and tl).is is presently onqoinq. 'l'he member for Stephenville (Mr .S taqq) has already been in touch with the depart:ment coneerninq opportunities for the Stephenville area and is makinq sure that the opportunities are beinq followed up by the Department of Industrial Development. 'l'he copies of the report are available fro111 the Department of Industrial Development upon request. So the hon. lllelllber can obtain a copy of the report.

As a complementary effort 1.501.

Auqust 7,1979 Tape No. 597 AH-3 r- MR. BARRY: to this study, the \. . Department of Industrial De•elopment h.. also commissioned a study of the Stephenville Hubour Wich vUl result in a proposed master plan for the hazbour, taltizlq into acco~mt such matters a.s land ownership and a•ailability, harbo= access and the need for such a.ccess,and i operational and l!nviro1111111ntal considerations. 1. •• This study vas also $41,000. The harbour study is scheduled for completion on Auquat 24th 1979. MR. HQDDEJh Mr. Speuer, coald I have leave of the House to respond briefly to the lllinister' s stat.-nt?

Mlt.SPEAKER: (Simms) Is it aqreed.? SOME !!OR. MEMSJ!:iiS: Aqreed. MR. SPEAn:R: By leave. A few brief remaJ:Its I a.ss~. MR. RODC£R: Yes, Mr. Spealcer. Just a few brief remarks. P'irst of all,I have not h&d the opportunity to read this study before.or to qet the study. I did make an effort to qet the study and vas told, no, that it could not be releued:It l.- is interestinq to find out that the member for Stephenville (Mr.Staqq) had it. But nevertheless,! do believe that • and I IIIUst say also, Mr.

Spealcer, that when I did asJE in the House whether I could have I '· . the study of not, it vas nov until I found out whether it was available or not. But I will say this about the study; I know 1502

,­ l L r l_. Au.qust 7, 1979 Tape No.S98 SD - l MR. J. HODDER: the authcrs of the stu4y. I believe t.bat go<Xi work went into the stud.y. The Bay St. George reqion is an are;a of high unamployment which the ~itibi Price opening' of the m.i.ll will llCt solve. Alld. I do hope t.bat the good implementaUons, thase implemenutions in tha study that sbauJ.d be takan advantage of will be, this will be done by the goverlllllllnt. And I do believe t.bat per.baps it will be solll&thillq tb&t will 1111lan that the futw:e of the Bay st.

George area will be IIIQre assw:ed. th1U1 it has been in the past aJKi that we will be able to taka advantages of the rich resow:c:es aJKi perhaps overcome some of the h.igh unemployment that we bava in the ouea. Thimlc you, Mr. Spealcar. l·IR. SPEJUC!:R: (Simms) Order, please. • I perhaps should !?Oint out eo bon. members tbat this prcc:edure is highly ir%eqular. I do not believe that procedure allows for quasUons ':o be asked after this point in the prcc:edw:e, but you did have leave. I just wanted tc mention that. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEJUC!:R: Order 3. COI!IIIIittee of ways and .lleans. The Bwiqet debilta.

The han. member for Bonavista North. SOME l:iON. MEMBERS: aear, near. :-~&. L. STIRLING: Thank you very much, 11r. Speaker. Wh1U1 I adjourned the debate yesteraay, I was dealing with the two central themes of th.i.s ~istra.ti.on as set out in the Throne Speech a.:ad. I wa.s looking for a follow-through in the Budget O>peecn. The two central '::llemes again as .;et out by the Premi.er ~. one, accountability of this government and t1oc1, the identi'::y of Newfoundlanders. And I must ::..'la.nk the Premier because one of the examples I used yesterday, in tile Budget, in talking 1503

r I I r- 1 I l,,. ~- 1 I [ ·. L A11qust 7, 1979 Tape No. 598 so - 2 :-!&. L. STIRLING: about the identity of NewfoWldlallders aDd loakinq for the financial coaai tments in the Bwiqet to help yesterday, I was s..yinq that I believe that the Minister of Rural Oeve.lQpment (Mr. J.

Gowiie) really wanted. to give this info:c~~Ation on a complete,open,settinq out of all the infomation on all the loans that the people of NewfoWldland had granted. to whaevar they might be,. and I was sayi.nq that I was a little l:Ut dist=Ded about the co-nts of the Premier that we shou.ld be tightening up the requ.lat.ion.s ana malti..nq it touqher for people to qet these Rural oeve.lQpment loans and that maybe soma of the reasons for giving these loans wou.ld now be withdrawn. .i\nd I am stil.l- since that d.iscussion we have had the Fis.heries Department before the cCIIIIII:i. ttee . arw.

I wou.ld like to recOIIIIIUinli to the Premier that b.e suggest taat tha practice followed in the Fisheries Department would be followed in aural Development in that the Fisheries Loan SOard has $8 lllillion of new a10ney !?Ut into that body and they do not offset that new a10ney by the S5.4 million !?aid by the l?ecple who had the loans. In other words, the gover:n111ent is committed in the Fisheries Loan Board to puttinq in SS mil.lion of new money,nat just S3 million or $2.6 million

whereas in Rural oevelopment, Rural Development wnich is, and I aqree with the Premier, is one of the master st%okes, one of the ma&ter instruments of bringinq about this identification of the NewfOundlander and the development of rural Newfollnlil~. In Rural Oevelopment,in the Loan Authority there,first of all the Suciqet was cut from S2.7million down to S2 mil.lion but unlike the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. W. Carter) and tile i:lepar'Cilent of Fisheries where they do not offset this mcney, in Aural Development everythinq that i s shown to be J?aid back this year, the Sl.S million, is beinq ll.Sed as an offset against that $2 million so that the :tin.ister of Rural ueve.i.opmen1; 1504

[ r- August 7, l979 Tape No. 598 SD • 3 MR. L. STIRLING: (Mr. J. GowUel i,s unlike the Minister of Fisb.uies (i<fr. w. cartul ami I woulci hope tbat the Premier can get th .. to c:o:asul.t and III&Y!le tha 14i.Aister of Rural. Devel.opment ~ get the same ~ of thiaq ~t tha l«iniater of Fisheries ~ anr:i tnat is tha.t thft"e sbgulc:l a $2 million or $2.7 lllillion of new lliC~ put in inetea4 of h&vinq it cut back to $.SOO,OOO. Beca.Jme in this are& of the 1.505 '

i\uqust 7, 1979 Tape 599 EC - l MR. STIRLDIG: identity of the Newfoundlander and in the ca~~Paic;n on which this ~ovemment W~Jn its mandate, it was for tne d6;relopmant of r.ural N-fo'Uildland and the giving of opport'Uilid.as to yo'Uilg Newfo'Uildlanders all over this Provinca to get involved in business enterprises. With all due respect, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Rural Oevelopu.nt (Mr. Goudie) h.u not been given the tools to do the joe. 'Ihe $2.7 lllillion, in effect, was cut to $500,000.

And the news u.dia thi.nq is goinq to qive the new government the reputation of having de,.loped a new disco nWii:iar, one step forward and three steps back. How can - talk iUlout a great step forward when one of thfl key departments, the Department of Rural, Agricultural and Northel:n ' .

Dewlcpmnt, that key depa.rt:Mnt, has its budget cut from $2.7 l:lillion ' I L .-.. to $2 million and then $1.5 million of that coming in from people repayinq, so there is virtual.ly no new !IIDiley to be given to that very ' L ~l• minister to do the joe that he nas set out to do - and he is in the forefront of trying to ccmplete that job.

So I hope that in the same sense that the Premier said, 'This whole question of the releasing of infonaation throuc;il Rural Development is being looked at,' maybe at the same time ne can adopt the very good policy of the Fisheries Department of putting in real new mcney, sa million of new IIIDney into Rural Development loans. Now,we !lad the Minister of Fisheries~ (Mr. W. carter) sinc:a the last discussion, and the member for Flacentia (Mr. Pattarson) on the opposita side brought up some very, very fundamental issues which should be del:lated in this House at great length.

The member for Placentia said in front of the Collllllittee, that ile !lad studied the . Kellogg report. He had a very basic conce1:n ~out the concept of a superport, and if you accept the superport concept, he !lad so- very basic doubts about the Kellogg report. And, as a matter of fact, ile macie a •rery serious charge which I hope the government is not going t:.o ignore. iie made a very serious charge , in that the Kellogg people were told ~o~llat to do and what the conclusion shoulci be, that this should be developed in aa.r.bour GJ::ace - a very serious charge .

And the member has some very serious doubts about 1506

I r , \__ r , .. L (' L f~ l. . . I • Auqust 7, 1979 Tapa 599 EC - 2 MR. STIRLL~G: ttU.s whole supexport ccncapt. One of the t.lli.ngs that we have bean very ccncexned aballt on this side of tha Hcuse - and I nave questioned the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. W.

Carter) - is ttU.s federal ccnference which. is being held in Corner Bz:ook at the height of the fishing season and which will not involve very many fishermen, in which they are going to discuss the Nortb.exn cad stoc::lts, the !iam:i.l ton Bank cod stocks, and Nova Scotia and New Brunswic:lt are going th.ara to present their case, as the Minister of Fisheria.s tells us. We nave very real cancaJ:nS that there is llObody presantinq the Newfoundland ~e at that IIIH.ting.

In the Budqet thare is also an indication that $400,000 is going to be spent for the acquisition of land and in that su. area. a hope is in the Budqet that they will get soma federal 1110ney to h.alp thUI out. ~, Mr. Speaker, we have been through this exercise before. It is like an old 1110vi.e playing back.. I ruamber in 1975 - I was not a IDI!lllber of the !iouse - bllt the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr.

Barry) was the minister at that time, anci we saw with- as'Surancas that everything was going ahead where '"e blasted ewo hol-es on the Labrador side and the N"ewfoundland side and, I believe, spent $100 million on the assurance that everyt.lli.ng was going ahead. MR. JAMIESON: $ll0 million. MR. STIRLING: ~llO million, I am told i:ly my col-league, the Leader of the Opposition.

I 1111!an, if we had not been through this before in 1975 we cau.ld be very much ccncerne.d, but tl:le Minister of Fisheries says, 'Well, we are going ahead with it.·• We saw last night on tel-evision an indication the consultants are going ahead with a projec:t that we nave been told repeatedly in the House. has not yet been approved - the Upper SaliiiOn. And they are starting to go ahead with it as if it all had been approved and accompl-ished. 150?

r ' · ' ·. '·· . ' l _. L. ... ... r· L. ,. ·- . - I . ( - ~ . August 6, 1979 Tape No. 600 NM- 1 MR. STIRLING: we hear that ~~e government on one hand is concerned about preserving the Newfoundland community and the Newfoundland character, but we do not seem to be able to tie that in with the superport concept. What happens if we take all t .. l'le fishery off the Labrador Coast in order to satisfy that superport and the surrounding S1114ll plants?

And the."l what happens if the next logical step is, wWell, we had better centralize that in one place~"- What happens on the Northeast Coast and the Labrador offshore? ! only have a few minutes left I think - one minute? We have a very serious set of questions which we have to ask the government. In this interilll six months or interim year in which they are talking about a five year plan or a four year plan,there is a very real possibility that we are going to make commitments that will send us in the direction that we cannot retreat from. I asked the Minister of Mines (Mr.

Barry) this morning, do we at this point have a letter from the Prime Minister of Canada that says, "Yes,when I committed to transfer jurisdiction, when I committed to say that yes, the mineral r.esources, the offshore resources are owned by the Province of Newfoundland, when I said that before the election I really meant it and now as Prime Minister I confirm it, "Because we all know they have backed off on many other promises, and the Minister of Mines and Energy said, "No, we do not have any such commitment," and he was shocked that I would suggest that he needed to make such a commitment. Mr.

Speaker, I have been very pleased by the information coming out in the Committee. I am pleased with the co-operation that we are getting and I intend to continue to ask questiqns to allow the government to show where they intend to take us in this way we want to grow because so far I cannot see it1 I cannot see it transferred from the Throne Speech to ~~e Budget, to ~~e long-range planning anywhere 1508

August 6, 1979 Tape No. 600 NM - 2 MR. STIRLING: in that whole series of documents • I cannot see this direction that ""'e are heading in4 ! cannot see the proof that we are movinq in that direction. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. R. BAIRD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Bear, hear! The han. member for !!umber West. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I !!lAde an attempt at it yesterday but ! think you recognized one of the ministers instead of one of your old, used to be, friends I did have a beautiful speech all prepared, typed out and written 1but my brother and ! are sharing one suit and he is gone with the suit and my speech so we will have to do the best we can. First of all, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate you on your election to high office. I imagine Grand Falls l!IUSt be pretty elated.

Also, the memtler, John - 'oh, sorry about the names, the districts - for Conception Bay South on the Deputy Speaker and I am sure ~~at Humber West must be really happy,! think they have got a very fine individual there 1 elected to the Deputy Chairman of the COIIIIII.ittees. I think we really picked a good man and I must say I am pleased with him. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BAIRD: First of all,I had better look at the clack like I see most of the members doing here now. I do not know if it is looking for six o'clock or to see how lang they have to talk. 1509 ..,

, ·- August 7, 1979 Tape 601 PK - l Mr. Baird: But I have no intention of speaking at length, I will t:ry and say just as much in half the time. I have listened to a lot of the speeches. I must say a lot oZ them I was impress~d by, some others I have listened to. I a.m afraid we have one i.lllij,vid.ua.l. I suspect whc might M.va been vacc.iDa.tcd with a gramcpaone needle among us. No names mentioned. MR. STDU.ING: on that side? MR. BAIRD: You are closer to him than I a.m. AN !iON. MEMBER: At least (ina~le). MR.

BAIRD: As 1!1Any of our hon. members stated, I like :;. a lot of others@ awe nobody anything in election promises, finances ' ·· or anything else. SOME !iON. 1o!EMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. BAIRD: Also,I would be remiss in my job if I did not congratulate the hen. Leader of the Opposition and the !iouse Leader of the Opposition in the co-operation they had. in enacting t!1e new rules. MR. ROBERTS: Wick Collins would be just hllarious. MR. BAIRD: He is not here.

Again I would like to,before I was rudely interrupted there, congratulate the two hen. gentlemen and th~ opposition members for enacting the new House rules which I think will enable an input from all members of the hen. House. I a.m a newcomer here like about fifteen or sixteen of us, but I will say I was quite pleased with the new Committee system, having talked to some of the older people and making my own observations. The meetings I have attended, now approximately sixteen hours in a •.reek7 I find them very informative, a little chance to say what we have to say, ask a few questions.

I think, for one, tnat the new system certainly will be beneficial to all and particularly us newer members. Now,let us get down to the district which I represent, the district of Humber West, As we all know, it was represented by the former Premier, and the former Premier to him. Now I am representing Humber West which is known as the Premier's dis~ict. I would like the hen. member for Green Bay (Premier Peck:ford) 1510

c r , ! ' ·u (\ L .~ ~ -

r) i ' ' 1._,1 (: u 0 1 j .... i ~ ' u I .. ' .__ -·:..-.--- August 7, 1979 Tape 601 PK - 2 Mr. Baird: to take notice. I am driving a simil..ar car ngw. I !lillY be wanting to get use·~to it. The Humber Wes~ district~I guess some of you people have not heard too much about in tai.s past four or five years. l>iell.Z can guarantee you you will hear a lot about it in the next four or five yem::s. SOME HON. MEMB~: aear, hear! MR. BAnm: The district of HUmber west comprises about 40 per cent of the population of the city of Corner Brook.

An interesting fact, we hear everybody is looking for dollars and money, we too are like the others I guess. A fair little interesting statistics, litllllber West has 11 population of approxilllately 13,000 people. We have twenty-two miles of paved streets, twenty-two; five miles of gravel streets, and thirteen miles of open ditches. So hon. Charlie Brett and hon.

Mr. -Windsor are not here this afternoon, but I wish you to take note that there are certainly a lot of needs in the liumber West district and I will be bringing them forth as time goes on. •-tuc:h neecis tc be done in the rec:rBiltional facilities in my district. OUr fields right now are not fit to play on as regards to soccer. The hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Thoms} take note that we did have a soccer team in the all-Newfoundland finals only two years ago, travelled 400 · miles to our district to play the all-New£oundland, when they sized up the condition of our fields it was agreed by all they were not fit to play on.

So that is another need which I will be pressing very heavy, that our recreational facilities.for our youth _who ~regrowing up •. to keep them i:Nsy and keep thei.r lllind.s clear, there is certainly a lot o:f attention naecieci. one very important. thing that I think we should be looking at7 and I will be fighting for,is L~ the Municipal Affairs Department. There has been some ta1k of the alleviation of taxes for the senior citizens. We have about 5,000 out ~here with names 15U

, . . , '···· ... i\uquse 7, 1979 Tape 601 PIC - J Mr. aaird: on the petitipn t:,hat - it has not.hinq to do with this now be~:ause th,e eJ.ection dis.ta is over, but :r am sure that for our senior citizens; after eont:ributinq t;o ~ va:r:iou,s areas for some sixt.y or be given. and I am qlad to. see tla.t t!ut m,ini.ster has already Jlli!ntioned it, aJld they ue checidnq into it, and I would like to say that this is o:ne of the priorities that I wil.l Q8 loold.nq a.tter for ·IllY district aM';· I quos, every o~ district. Also, tbeJ:e are a few 1512 '

.\uq\15 t 7 , 19 79 Tape 602 EC- l MR. BAIRD: ~uque~ and a few bricks, I guess, We are a.ll t.a.l.king about the new P. C. Government in Ot ta.wa and the new P.C. GaW%lUIIIII1t in Newfoundland. I would lilc.e to congratulate the members of both govarnments. We heard enouqh talk al:xlut arterial routes in Corner Brook ;md industrial parks at - I g\leSS at ths time I qot thrown out of Grade U for not shaving, it waa on the go then. Two weeks after tne new qovernmant was in Ottawa, I was vary pleased to see that through Mr. Crosbie and Mr. Packford. in respect of both govarnlllents, the aql:Sement was signed.

I ~mderstand that the contracts will be let in a. couple of weeks and work will. begin, w:b.eraby we can qet a lot of our men off the wel.fare and relief and now gat down to work. at what they are interested in. So again, I would lilc.e to commend the federal ?,C. Government and our provincial P.C. Gava.rnment, for instead of ten. years of talk we had about tvo weeks and we had action. SOME !iON. MEMBERS: liear, hear~ MR. BAIRD: There is a seventy-five acre indusuial pan and 3.9 miles of ring road baing constructed a.t an apprcxima-;e cost ( • of Sll million.

That is a. thorouqhly needed thing in every district and I am happy to say tilat possibly this one, at least ~mder the new gow.rn~~~ent, happens to be in the district of !illlli)er West. Back to our Throne Speech on some of the Women's Riq.tlts, a.s the h.on. the m8111ber for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) a.nd !:U.s friend from Bonavista mentioned the other day. I am quite pleased also ·.· to see that SODil changes have co- about. It has taken a. long while. I am glad to see that a lot of changes are coming about.

I certainly ;;-ould not want to see too many too quick. 3ut the riqllts between the husband and ·11ife regarding property laws, I understand there is some :110re fact finding to be done on it, but I think it only fair a.nd fitting that botil part.•ers enjoy the fruits of t.':leir efforts. ... Again, I ""'ould like to congratulate our provincial government - we have for years and years, the Ball Diversion it was known as, now the O'Connell Drive in Corner Brook, not fit t:o 1513

,- r' ' ( '- I • ( . I L Auqust 7 I 1979 Tape 602 E:C - 2 MR. BAIRD: drive on. We have had younqsters killed there - no sidewalks. Thera hu been an announcemen1: of a large collllllitment; this year there will be over Sl million spent on the paving of it and sidawalka put in. I think that is az!Qther plus. I did listen to the member for Sonavista North (Mr. Stirling) tell us last week about his dlildren being up i:1 the balcony and how proud he was to be here and now he hoped in a couple of years time tll&t ile would contin- to be as proud and they would be of llilll.

I would like to con~ with you 1 Len 1 • I feel the su. way. Mr. Speaker, I was ngt hare this past ten or twalve years or five or whatever that a lot of the l!lell1bers h.ave been around, and I am certainly glad from all reports that I was not or there would probably l:le a by-election in TJ1.':f district because I do not think that I would have the quts and the patience to put up with some of it. ' But I am glad. to see that everybody, without exception, I would say, appear to be off on the right start. I. am getting down to it, boys. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) tU:e your time. :.!R.

BAIRD: I am getting around to you. One other point, I think, that probably should be brouqht up and a lot of thought given to it - I know I have. Everybody in this day and age, we are all looking for what services we can get -water, s-ra.qe, pavement, garbage collection, street lighting, and I think it only fitting that everybody is entitled to it as the 1110ney is available. However, I think, let us get some of our priorities straight. I know in the district of lil.llllCer West our population is deereasinq, not increasing.

The reason for that is the people are moving ouuide t.'l~ city of Corner Brook, lll)ving around to the outlying areas whereby they can get cheaper taxes. The resident who stays and helps build up tus town pays from SSOO to S700 a year, the other individual moves out of town - that is tus own business, but it certainly does not help to build up your - and he expects the same services with a $40 fee. I think that is something that we really have to nave a good hard look at and gat our priorities straight. 1514

r l I ( ( I l .. \. r c I L l ... [ ,· Auqust 7, 1979 Tape 602 EC - 3 MR.. BAIRD: Aqain, I am not denying any areas • Whatever dollars that there are available, they ara entitled to as much as they can gat. That is lll.llllan natura, is it not? But I still do feel that _Ele()ple can pay taJces in two areas to subsidize the other to any great degree without at least serious c:onsideratiou being given to the need of keepinq them in the areas that they are in.

I am looking forward to servinq !:!umber 'll'est under the capable leadership of 'Brian Peckford~ First wb.en I saw young 'Brian' there I wa.s sizing him up and with mi:lled emations, I want to the leadership meetings t.l'lat ne had, in fact, I attended every oa.e of them in Comer BJ:QOk, did as much inquiring and reading aJ)out him as I could, and ! IIIU5t say, I am very pleased with his capabilities, ilis attitude. It does not seam to matter what tima you co- in b.ere in the mmi.nq or wh.at time you leave in the evening, the hon. the Premier is in his seat. ' MR. :a:ARY: Even on Regatta Oay he was here. lUt.

BAIRD: Even on Regatta Day, the member for LaPoile says, he was here. MR. WH:ITE: He is making up for the last one. !1R. BAilU): So I am very pleased to serve under his leadership. I am looking forward to making a contribution to this govamment and the people of our Island. It is 1515

,- \ ' l' \ ( r ( - \ .. { I t. August 7, 1979, Tape 603, Page 1 -- apb MR. BAIRD: interesting to note, talking about service clubs, and most everybody here, I understand, at sometime or in some way was of some service to his local area through service clubs, community councils and whatnot. I notice in this House that we have four members now or forllll!lr members of the Kinsmen Club on the government side, and we have four members or former members on the Opposition side. AN !iON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) five. MR. BAIRD: Somebody tells me five.

The figure I have is eight, so we will stick with eight until somebody proves it afte:z: •.te:dc. We do have eight members. one of them, our hon. Speaker, was elected to the high office of being national president the first time, I think, for a Newfoundlander. That certainly speaks well for the individual and our Province • SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. BAIRD: Again, as I have said, I am not going to use up the thirty minutes. I have twelve gone, I am doing better than I thought I would be • I am looking forward to serving· the people of my district and in general.

I think the new House rules a lot of the bickering back and forth, I guess some of it has to be instead of letting it boil inside you. I know that anything I have on my mind I hope that I can get it out as gracefully as I can. This is the place to discuss it or in, at least if it is our own crowd, caucus.

I think the new rules and the manner in which our committee has been functioning - maybe where I ac brand new I was certainly nat up on any of it, but going through the estimates, enquiring of the ministers, members of the Opposition and in conversation back and forth, I think that a lot has been derived, I think it is a good system. I have to read this part of it for you. I was particularly pleased with the government's strategy in the area of job creation, the creating of 45,000 new jobs during the next five years .

With expanding oil and gas exploration activity off our coast, .,...ith the hiring procedures in the industry favouring our own work force, our own work force being very important, a 151.6

August 7, 1979, Tape 603, Page 2-- apb :1R. BAIRD: new hcusinq programme to both provide the ba<il.y needed accCIIIIIICdations for the mid.dl.e and lew i.nccme pecp.le r •. stimula.tinq t.ll.e construction trades and new initiatives J.n the forestry and fishery areas, our employment opportunities will be greatly improved. \ I will conclude, Mr. Speaker, wi t!1 a little poem that I !lave read en several occasions. No doubt some I of you !lave heard it before, scme may not. AN HON. MENSER: Is it clean? r ~lR. BAIRD: It woulci be or I wo11ld. not be mentioning it here. With your pezmission, I will continue.

I do =t have ,. . the voice that 'Paddy Mc:Nichclas' or most of t:hcse Irisll I \ .. transients do have, but probably scme eveninq at a social I can ( - pro.bably sing a few other ones that would not be permitted in t.he iiouse. SOME HON. 1-IENBERS : l:lea.r, hear! MR. BAIRD: Again, I will continue and read it as I orig.inally did schedllle it.

"The Philosopny of Life": Did it ( ever occur to you that a man's life if full of crosses and temptations? iie comes into this world without his consent and ;1e goes out aqainst his will, and the trip between is exceedinqly .' rocky/ The rule of contraries is one of the features of this trip/ When he i.,; little the big girls kiss him/ When he is big the little girls kiss him/ If he is poor he is a bad manager/ If he is J::ich he is dishonest/ If he needs credit he cannot get it./ If he is prosperous everyone wants to do him a favour/ If he is in poll tics - and. this is pretty fitting, I guess, for a lot of us here - it is for graft/ If he is out of politics he is no good. to his country/ - So bow do you answer that one? - If he does net give to charity he is a stingy ~~ss/ If he does, it is for show/ If he is actively religious he is a hypocrite/ If he takes no interest in religion he is a hardened. sinner/ If he gives affection he is a soft specimen/ If he cares for no one, he is cold blooded/ If he dies yo~,g, t.he:e was a great future for him/ If he lives to an old age, he missed :1is 1.517

August 7, 1979, Tape 603, Pa9S 3 -- apb Mlt. BAIRD: ea.lli.Dq/ So I think with that I will conclude llrf time. Thank you. ,. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Bear, hear~ I MR. SPEAXER(Butt): The hon. the member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. liOI,LETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think I will just start by saying that for some ye.us it has l:leen llrf fondest ambition f I 1518

\ \ [: C' ) I I ' r · I c. ( Auqust 7, l979 Tape &o. 604 so - l :o!R. D. i!OLI.E'l"l': to i:le a Ill&lllber of this l:louse. I finally wcceecl.ed And I am also proud. to say tha.t, to date, I am certainly liCt <iisappointeci. I trust over the next few yea.rs that collectively we can contribute a lot tow;u:d.s tba future of tllis Province and I certainly pledge myself to do my part on behalf of our ri~g to work towou:cili that goal. SOME lieN. ME.'UIERS : l:lear, hear. MR.. D.

EIOLLE'1"1'1 I certainly tllink I would be remiss, also, at t:l1is time if I ciici liCt b:rinq to the attention of the House, particularly the new members, the name of the gentleman whom I r11placed in ow: ridi:lq. P .J. Canni nq, I think., wu a m&lber of this !louse for twenty-seven years, I believe, allli I think that both he And b.is wife gave quite wu;elfisb.ly to what he believed iA IIIOat. it was prc::motinq the political a"i::llosphera, tile future of the Province and he was certainly a dedicated servant of the people. SOME !:ION. 1£.\IBERS : !lear ' near. :m. D. l:IOLI.E'1"1': As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, I suggest that any c;entleman who served in ucua of a. certain fued period of fifteen years, twenty year:; i.n particular, there .s.'lould be some special IIIIQIIIeDtum or saue plaque of appreciation or otherwise that should be c;i'l811 that way. MR. NEARY: There sllQuld be c;i van some kind of special decoration. liB.. D. liOLLETT: Mr. St>eaker, I will try net to be completely riding oriented. If I make mistake5, I ask you to correct me. But in relation to t.'le Budget and the Throne Speech ami everytU.i.ng else, if I said I was disappointed I think I ·.,oulci be tel.l.illg a lie.

It ...,as pre tty much wtlat I expected. I SillY that not in a derogatory manner but being involved in the poli~cal system for quite a number of years, any new government that gets in,unless it is Alberta or some ot."ler country, it is natural t c assume Ulat certain restrictions woul<i be placed, certain priorities would i:le cila.nge<i. Whether tiley a.re good or ba&:: within tile next three , or four year, ...,e will tell. ?robably the IDCst disappointing t:hing II 1519

r · ( r­ L Auqus~ 7 # l979 'l'ape t<o. 604 SD - 2 MR. 0. liOu.E'l."l' to me, vas the caDplete lack of reference in relation to doll~s, in :ralatian to the medical se~c:as in the P~vinc:e. I miqht aGO. that down ovet the years there could have beaD SOIII8What of a hodge-pociqw llit-oJ:"-miss propoaitiOA. put in place, no~ );as b~ done to pursue that pla.Zl since 1972. AM in putic:ul.~ly an the Bw::i.n Peli.insula, the hospital was p:rOIIU:&aG in.: 1971, 1972, 1975 mci I do .llCt :reJIIUiber a fi.DI promise in 1979. Thare is one thinq I do lalow, that there is a dire need far ' 1520

l I August 6, 1979 Tape No. 605 NM - l MR. HOLI.E'l"l': in that region., I can say quite proudly here, Mr. Speaker, and quite factually that I am not ~ust speaking for the people who supported ma during the campaign, I think I am speaking for every !llal\, woman and child in Burin­ Placentia West. and aver t~e years their dedication to their Regional Hospital Committee, their aspirations have been exemplified. I would also like to give due credit to that Regional Hospital Committee..

They have toiled long and hard with no funds 1litera1ly speaking, transportation out of their own pocket and within the last year or so they have done a complete review on the aspirations of the people and the basic needs and I think they themselves suggested to the government that instead of the 158 bed hospital that was originally ?reposed and considerable money spent an in design and architectural work1 they have it now reduced down to somewhere in the vici.:·1ity of 70. And for the record, Mr. Speaker -the Minister of a:eal th (Mr. Housel has left - I would like to remind bath the hen.

Minister of Health and this House that the hospit~ that exists in Burin now was not originally a government institution. !~ is not the first occasion that people had to work towards better medical facilities. Back in the early thirties 1 when times were very rough in this Pravince,there was a group in that region who got together, approached all levels of government without any response and they took it upon themselves to build that hospital. They went as far as to organize and have legalized one of the first major lotteries in this Province.

And I would like to say how proud I am of those people and the same determination still exists in the region. The cottage hospital in Burin was opened, equipped, and passed over to the government of the day back in 1935. I agree some improvements have been made since 1 but cer~ainly there is a terrific need there and I can assure ~~is House right now, Mr. Speaker, ~~at every opportunity I get in Committee, in the House, through the media, and elsehwere, I will,an behalf of that riding,promote the need far improved medical facilities. 1521. '

( . r· t.. : , I L. ("" l \ .· . : .:\uqust 6, 1979 'l'ape NO. 605 NM - 2 Mr. Speaker 1 also in the area there is a new problem wbich 1 to me, ~ to 1110st people who lived in the area 1 &114 I think to some people'; surprise within <;overnment, the fl anDOUDCeblellt made by the Minister of Finance regarding the Marystevn Sbipyard. I for one Will qo on record and say that I do not disagree that the:e shauld lile a review and a revision of that yard but I do not think it only applies to the yard. I do nQt think ,it should only !lappen once every ten years. I think any business or any orqan.i.zation should be subject to a continuous review so that we qet 1522 .. /

; · .. I ' .. I • Auqust 7,1979 Tape No. 606 AH-1 MR. HOLLET'l': with :aaxim'llll efficiency and productivity. Mr. Speaker, I am quite confident I speak on behalf, of the JUjority of the people who work in that yard. They feel the s- way also. liowever, unfort~tely what has happened bec:aase of ' the way the announc:ement was maca is that a lot of the workers in that yard nov find thalselves in a position where evet~. c:red.it is denied. They are scared and worried.

There are younq people there ~, n.w t-uy 'QDJ.ts wbo have been worki.nq there for ten ye~, have their joarneymane · tn,say 7plate fittinq,and there is literally nowhere else in Atlantic: Canada they can get a job. But unfortunately they are burdened with heavy mortqaqes, nice homes and an investment in what they felt vu a secure future. I have had quite a f- phone calls from those people and I have talked to a lot.

Just laat Thursday one chap who thouqht he had a mortqaqe neqotiated for a new home found it wu denied until he cauld assure his banker that hi.s particular position would not be redundant within the context of the Karystown Ship Yud. And, Itt.

Speaker, further to that subject I think the gove=ent haa been somewhat derelict in either appointinq the vronq directors - I am not sure of all the new ones nov, I will find out in due course, but certainly there IIIUSt have been a ccmplete lack of control in the operation of that Crown Corporation when the owners had to wait some twelve months or longer to realize that they were S8 million out of poc:Jcet. To !111!11 it is inconceivable. Anybody operatinq a business would DIOt wait , I suqqest, to be over sa million in the red before they feel they shauld take s0111e co:rrec:ti ve action . if necessary.

And also, M:r. S:peaker, I would '1('\._1..) like to go on the record as say" quite emphatically that I do not believe that the problem in that yard is becaase the averaqe work force, the averaqe workman there has neither the will nor the ability to be very produc:ti ve • Without proper co-ordination, without proper management, without proper leadership, without proper planning,without proper estimatinq, anyone of t.'lose particular areas and I could name 1523

;· ' , __ ,~ i L r L r ·- Auqust 7,1979 Tape !lo. 606 AH-2 !!:R. ROLLET'I': very INU1Y more in that yard.,can brinq around a major problem. I will say that I trust that the revi- beinq done by t.'le Board of Directors ,which I find a little difficult to understand, how a Board of Directors can qo and fiqure out their own lllistakes and then COlle out and· qive a report and not blame themselves. Maybe it is the way they would like to resiqn;r ! do not know. I would feel lllllc:h better if the review -was beinq done by professional independent people. However, I a111 anxiously avaitinq the report.

I trust thiE government will see fit to make it public and than everybody will know where the cause was and I am sure vork towards insurinq that it will not happen in the future. I foll.alfec! that yard quite cloa~~sinee construction started back in 1966. It ,, does qreat vork. '!'hey have had growinq problems from day one but I think right now there is ninaty-odd per cent of the work ~oree there who are native Newfoundlanders and at the openinq tt was something less than fifty.

So Newfoundlanders can adapt, they can tuzn out quality products and take a great pride of acccmplishlllent which mcst workers in that yard have done and I am sure are willing to continue.

I do not want to belabour the subject, however, once again,when the report is tabled I would ask the h.on. minister to try to b.ave it dena as fast as possible simply to allay the fears of the people who work at the yard, the suppliers to the yard, the ones involved in the service industries in nlation to the yard, '!'here is quite a ranqe there and we are talking about in excess of 500 jobs and tens of millions of dollars in expenditures annually. !!:r, Speaker, in relation to Fisheries; some of us are probably too philosO!=lhical when it COllies to the f'isllery and its future in this Province.

The Fisheries ha~ been with us since the first settlers came here. Some people say we have not made any progress, others will say we have made too much. However, on the Burin Penil1su.la..-i.n t:.h.e total sense, and in Burin-Placentia West,i.'l particular, ninety'-1rine per cent ?f our economy can be traced 1524 '

Auqust 7, 1979 Tape No. 606 RT-3 ,.. . MR. HOLLETT• directly or indirectly to the Fisheries. I think the very rationale for the construction of the shipyard wu the future of the Fisheries. 1525

r· i L L ( I August 7,1979 Tape 607 PK - 1 Mr.

Hollett: Ar.d on that point, you know, what bothers me very lllllCh now, and r do not think has been discussed here yet, and I think it - is h.igh time it w;s;s, is that the present state o£1 first,the offshore fleet, I have heard mention of it havinq to be replacedJ' I know the fiqures on it~ but really what distrubs me most and from talking to companies seeing bids, offers 1that right now7 unless the Provincial government and the Federal government: work toget..~er~ then the construc:t.ion business, not only in Marys town, but in Atlantic canada I think will have real problems. And I am happy to see the hon.

Minister of Fisheries (Mr. w. Carter) ccme back because I feel that he will concur with me on the replacement of the trawler fleet. Because, Mr. Speaker, the bids that are coming in from other countries are so low in relation to the best cost in Canada, not just in Mazystcwn, then we could ·..n=ll find something like -is it a forty-odd per cent lower price from other companies than the best we can in ' Canada?

And if in some way we cannot work out a system federally and provinciallY, companies and fiihe=en, to try and ensure that the amount of construction that will be required in this country over the next, ~ven ten years, then we are not only going to find the Marystown Yard in trouble, we are going to find every yard in canada, and also we could end up getting boats that really are not exactly what is best suited to this Provincetin particu1ar 1 and Canada 1in general. It is a very real concern to me, Mr. Speaker, simply because 1traditional1y 1 Canadians and Newfoundlanders have basically built their own boats.

And if we get away from that. even for one sWing, for one specialty boat, then it could '"ell happen that it will be the tip of the iceberg or set a precedent that will be followed all ~~e way through. I vividly remember the problems faced by the present qovernment.or the P.C. Government when the Marystown yard was down some years ago. They took it upon themselves th~~ to ensure that the yard would maintain a certain level and built a lovely refrigerated, not a refrigerated, but a stern trawler which is presently operating out of Ramea. ~entua11y,! think they did get some subsidy 1526

August 7, 1979 Tape 607 PK - 2 Mr. Hollett: from the federal government on it. But it just goes to exemplify when there is ~ real need 1 things can be done and. r · I certainly ask the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. w. carter) along with _his \ . coUeaquaa to WC~J:k quite diligently to ensure that ~ture construction for trawlers and other ships will remain certainly in canada and certainly the Newfoundland requirements be met by our own yards. r· SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! i lm.

HOLLETT: FUrther to the subject of fisheries, Mr. '· Speaker, in this Prevince and I think probably in this country, as yet we have not defined the fishezmen in the strict sense, inshgre, offshore, specialty, profesaional., and what B:Jt, and bec;wae of this ( req'~Uations now cannot be interpreted properly by courts or by government in relation to different jurisdictions. And I · til:i.i1k it is terribly important,especially when you look at inshore fishermen and offshore .. I think the day has come, Mr. Speaker, when the fishe:c~~en ' cannot be efficient with all species,in all areas and all types of boats.

I feel that emphasis has to be put on the inshore fishery • If we look at the numbers, sneer numbers, however 1 it cannot be done to the detriment of the offshore, and it is a chicken and egg problem. I .. 1527

\ . r . I I. August 7, 1979 Tape No. 608 GH-1 MR. HOLLE'l"l': The priority in certain areas would have to be offshore on a seasonal or ongoing basis where the work force is used to your twelve months - everything else and to illustrate a point, what is happening, it may be in the Northern stocks , may be in the Grand Banks, but t.'lere is a whole lot of little areas in between, the mouths of bays in particular. I think my han. friend from Placentia (Mr. Patterson) will agree with me that what is happening to the Placentia Bay stock, for the sake of argument right now which is a local stock, is that

whereas most fishermen in that whole big region make a relatively good living each year, I find that the fishermen tell me that the fish are getting smaller and the numbers are decreasing. I do not think for a minute, Mr. Speaker, this is being caused by the inshore ·fishezmen, because "){\(__ do not have near the numbers there now that there were a l:ew years a9o, but I strongly suspect where the problem is that the offshore trawlers, not just Newfoundland ones, mainland boats, and to a certain extent it was happening with foreign boats, that this stock goes off in what is called a gully in the winter months.

There is a restriction, I think, of 50,000 pounds per boat to be fished out of that area in season. I do not think anybody can tell me for sure that is all that is fished there. However, as the number of offshore boats increase and the more that fish that gully which is basically the Placentia Bay stock, each year there is going to be less for the fishermen in Placentia Bay, ~ I think those are the types of problems that we have to work together and try and solve on behalf of the people who take a great ?ride in being professional f ishermen.

I would certainly like to offer now to work with anybody in this House, to work for the betterment of the future of the type of individual to which I refer. I would like to point out also, ~tr. Speaker, that the han. member from Placentia and myself share some common ground even though '"e are from the opposite sides of the bay. By accident or design some years ago, I think, all the islands with t he exception of 1528 ·. z.._ '

,_ r- i I j .... f - August 7, 1979 Tape No. 608 GH-2 ~- !!OLLET'l': Woody Island and maybe Sound Island are within the boundaries of Burin - Placentia West, and I am looking forward to every Spring and Summer to go down into that far greater bay and welcome the hon. member's constituents into our riding simply because I think this is where about 95 per cent of them come eve--y Summer to fish, and I would like to extend an invitation to the hon. member to come meet me on Merasheen some Saturday night and we can discuss mutual problems. MR. PATTERSON: And celebrate the (inaudi.l:lle). MR.

HOLLETT: And there is a wedding in Monkstown on the following day, okay. Mr. Speaker, there are many things one could discuss in the fisheries and I am sure we ~~ill get ample opportunity. However, there is one thing that is very - and ! am sure the hon. Minister of Fisheries can give me a 101 good reasons why he should notJ it is a matter of bait service in this Province. ! realize under the terms of union, it is a federal responsibili~y.

I realize the problems that fishermen, fishermen's committees and unions have to try and reach the regional man or get to somebody in Ottawa, and I would certainly prefer that the bait service would be. provincial jurisidiction rather than federal. ~ow it can be worked out in a manner by which this Province at present probably can afford it, or maybe we should say not afford it, I am not so sure.

But I know there is nothing more £rustrating to, I am sure, a fisherman, a member of a union or otherwise, when people need bait and just .... _ cannot get it or the wrong type of bait, ~nd most people fluff it off as a minor problem.

My experience over the last number of years, it is not minor, especially 7 when you would get into the Winter fishery, the lobster fishery in particular, to the guy who has a good run of fish moving and has to wait four days which, ironically, will most always turn out to be the four perfect days for fishing, and when the bait arrives it is five days of bad weather so he has missed nine, not four. I think this, Mr. Speaker, is one area where ~he Province 1529

Auqust , , 1979 Tape No. 608 GH- 3 !<!R. ROLLE'l"r: evencually, whether it ·~ts to or not, will be forced into either greater liaison lolith t1le feds or taki.:lg over the outright responsib ility ~f bait sa--vices . ! ~qht suggest, Mr. Speaker, as additional holding units, cooling units and wha t not are construc :ed around this Province. I think the I ' · .- ' 1.530

( .. Auqust 7, 1979 Tape No. 609 ow-l !ffi.. 0 • ROLLE'l"l' : hon. Mr. Milti.ster of Fisneries (Mr. w. Carter) is aJ.raady st.a:cting to feel Salle of the pressures from the fishermen to better utilize some of the facilities we have and have better co-ordinated programmes. Mr. Speaker, aJ.so in connection with fisheries but it is an overlappinq jurisdiction. Maybe I should not ,but because of the hundreds of people I have talked to over the last year, I would like to refer to the prapoaed,hopefully, reality of t.'1e opening of the come by Chance refinery.

I think. everybody in Newfound- land would like to see this refinery reopen. When first the Houae opened the hon. the Premier I thinlc it was referred to an environmental study.I immediately went and found out what this study was and,of coorse,the answer was also given in the House subsequent~'l However, ..jb to me - and the question was also subsequently asked the MiJlister " of Finance 1 about if the governllll!nt feels safa and secure with the navigational. systems within Placentia Bay.. Parsona.l.ly, Mr. Speaker, I am not.

I was ~ry close to the origina.l. system that went in ~at was about the best 1 at the time/ we could get. Everybody, the best consultants, the best mariners, fisnermen everybody agreed tnat it was 1and probably sti.ll is, an excellent system. However, Mr. Sp~alcer, I do not feel nearly as secure now since 1 taday,and will be tomorrow and nobOdy k~ows for haw lonq,oil that is suspected to be from the Kurdistan that broke in two off P.E.I last Winter is now presently coming into Pla ... -entia Bay.

If we look at what was supposed never to happen because of computers, good officers and good equipment: With the collision of two supertankers in the Carribean just rec;ently, if we look at the message of the ~ in Chedabucto Bay some time ago, if we stop and t.~nk about the '!Orv c:anyon and probably about ten lllOre supertankers tilat I can mention. ~f we go back further and remember that: when those boats were first designed 1 tha.t Lloyds of LOndon, your best navigational experts, everything,in the world they are abOut the cleanest and safest ships that could he floated, Mr.

Speaker, I shudder at the thought of either human, electronic or mechanical error in one of those ships if they happen to h.ook the 1531. '\

[ ( ~ugust 7, 1979 Tape No. 609 OW - 2 MR.. D • !!OLLE'r!' : end of Red Island or Merasheen Island or one of the thousands of rocks cr huncreds of islands that are in the approach to the Come by Chance refinery . I think, !'.r. Speaker, that the responsi- bility is now with the government not just to do the other stadies. But I will certainly feel better that in relation to the technology that has been learned since the original navigation system went in Placentia Bay for the supertankers, I think the whole pro<iramme should be completely reviewed._ it should be ·1111ade as safe as humanly possible .Because, Mr.

Speaker, if one of those tankers ever rips the side out or cracks open in Placentia Bay1 I do not know all of the chemistry but my feeling is that in an ~a as productive in just about every species of fish that one can catch in this Province 1 it can be a wasteland from all marine life for maybe up to a century. I think the hon. member for Placentia (Mr.

Patterson) will agree with me 1 that the way the tide circulates 1 t!'l.ere are 365 islands in that bay which you can live on plus all the rocks, the deep water, the different temperatures , t.'la shoals , if it ever happens with the right wind conditions and the right tide conditions then literally Placentia Bay would be full of whatever ::ype of crude it might be. 1\nd nobody !Cnows yet the full effects of this crude oil on marine life.

They have been studying it now since the first supertankers get into trouble t ~t has been done in labs and because of tide conditions, different depths, water conditions, you know, nobody knows for sure what would happen. There is one thing we are sure of, that it will kill marine life, it will take oxygen out of the water 1 and it will adhere two beaches, it will dissappear but it is still in the beaches, ~ I on the bottom and everything else. Now, ~r.

Speaker, I am definitely afraid chat unless every precaution is taken 1 ~:accident in that area could well be doom for all of the fishermen and all of the people who have all their money invested in fishing e~pment and supplies. ~nd ! would suggest to the government and to 1532 '

r \ , L 0 l_.l . ' L_, I ~ ,_l August 7, 1979 Tape No. 610 so - l MR. D. aOLLETT: the bQn. Premier that whareas t.'l.ere is vez:y little reaction to the reactivation of Come By Chance,. !IICSt every.bociy,as I said earller,woulli lika to see it open) !!lOSt of the fishe=en in that whole aa.y have f.:iends and relatives .,..bQ are looking forward to joba tllere. ! am not sure just now they all feal 1 but a lot of them are borderline, whether they would like to have it reopen or not and I am not saying anything nere other than can be substantiated.

But I certainly think that tlle government na.s a responsibility to give reassurances to all the people to whom I have referred 1 about the safe navigation and. t.'la procedures that will be us411i for when the :rafinary reopens, that all possible steps have been taken to ensure that we do not have an accident within a :oay l.ike that or anywhere near a coastline. Mr. Speaker, ! was not looking at the clock and I was the first one to agree to the thirty minute time tlling 1 dsspite SCilla of my friends. There are many thinqs I wculd l.ike to say and I am sure I will qat an ample opportunity to brinq tham up.

But there is one other matter that I would l.ika to, I guess, refer to the bQn. Minister of Justice (Mr. G. Ottenhe.imer) • It is in .;onnection .,..ith the 3lection Act and t!1e proposed review in relation to the Election Expense Aci primarily( when it is worked out. aut there is one thin.; that is imperative, in my opinion, that sbQuld be done prior to the next provincial election and that is that SCIII8 minor •aumciments be made to that Act so that a la.J::qe number of NewfouiJdl.andars will get the oppvrtun.ity to vote. I am sure, :-~r.

Speaker, that it is not intentional that they are excluded 1but I knew on the Burin Peninsula alone there is well in excess of 400 deepsea fishermen, there are many people in hospitals and other caterqories 7 buc it was quite interesting to me and I kepc a close counc on it. In spite of the ewo advance poles which were on F:.:iday ar.d Saturday, back to back 1 not week to week, we :tave to remeiiiDer that tilcse boats nave a ten .iay tur:il 1533

l - .~gust 7, 1979 Tape No. 6l0 SD - 2 aroWld sa because of tl:lat, probably up to seventy per cent or mere of the deep-sea fishennen of the Burin Peninsula and therefore, I sunniae of the total Province, diQ. nat get tha Op,lilortwti.ty to exercise their franchise.

And I might alid., they were very, vary disappointed .because those are the people who contri.b11te significantly to the economy of this Province, ~ey are tile ones who .basically keep our fisil.inq inau5try alive ana. well in ·the Wintertime._ :Aey are the ones who are paying, as a group, probably the highest income tax in the Provinca anQ I am sure that tne hon. ?rem.ier w.i.ll talta this into consideration when illl:f drafting of the Election Act is done and assure that people suc.il a5 the deepsea fishermen of this Province will have an ample oppor-r.un.ity to vote prior to the next provincial election. ~lr.

Speaker, t.l·1ere are several mere headings that I could go into but certainly tilere is one that I can not resist on this oceasion and I refer back to my hon. f:iend ana colleague, ex-chainnan of our COmmittee a.llli t.he memi:ler from Stephenville (Mr. F. Stagg) in his opening speech. I was somewi:lat surprised that a man with experience in the HOuse, in his community and in his region, =less he has gooci reason whic.'l he diu not spe.ll out in his speech, would refer to t.'le negative attitudes o.t tile senior level of the civil service. Mr.

Speaker, I have had t.'le oppor-r.unity and tile privilege to work with civil 5ervants federally, provincially and municipally over the past twenty years and I will say1 without any fear of contradiction that tlle civil servants, in particular tbe senior level of civil servants,by ana large, by far tile major~ty, that we O.ave O.ere in this Province we should all feel verf, very proud of. I have always gotten along ·.rell with them, t.o.e:1 k."l.ow :; <~hat they are about and I honestly believe they have the best interest of this Province as a whole at heart.

And I, for one, would like ~ go on record and say that I am very proud of our civil service and only wisn tllat other jurisdictions in this nation had people of the same ca~i~re. 1534 '

r L ! l ' r I I : '-' D ,.--, I , I Auqu.st 7, 1979 Tape No. GlO so - 3 Mr. Sp;uke,r, I tlUA!t the five lllimates I wulci lika to say thAt r am here repnsent;inq one of the more '\ 1535

August 7, 1979 Tape6ll EC- l .l!R. liOLLE'l"l': and I t:rust that the people in that riding 1 after rsrt first tez:m 1-will feel the same - as rsrt ambition is 1 new 1 tha~ after rsrt having done a good job, they would like tc see me back hera again. ThanJt you very much. SOME HON. ME:MBERS: MR. SPEAKER: (Baird) SOME BON. MEMBE.Rf: : .l!R. BARBETT: Hear, hear! The hen. the member fer St. John's West. !iear, hear! !tt. Speaker, I am delighted tc have the opportuni.ty tc speak on this, the Budget

section of the debate. ;.nd rsrt observations, obviously, are restricted tc a very short tenurs of service in this particular capacity. Hcwever, I was honoured to be named tc one of the EstimAtes committees and I III.USt say, I am vecy encouraged by the calibre of the llelllbers comprising this coll'll1ittee that I am a part of. There is every indication that every one of these people are providing a great deal of thought and consideration to their job of doing an analysis o! these Estilnates that have !:lean referred to them.

The questions are quite thought provoking, meaningful, and ·saying that, I b.ave to congratulate ~~ ministers who have appeared before these committees so far. They have been very responsive and co-operative and it is pretty nice to know that t.'l.ey !lave such an in-dept."l. feeling for t.~ pa.rtiCl.lla.r depa.rtl!lents which they serve.

It is also interesting to note 1t:nat in ~"l.is particular committee structure 1we do have an opport!.UUty to see some of the senior civil. servants in these departments and I would h.ave to agree to SOIN! extent wi~"l. the hen. member wh.o just spoke f:om across, in t.'la.t everything that we have seen so far of these senior people suggests that they have a very thorough knowledge and are very capable people and certainly do well by the depart:IDents which they repres•nt.

I feel, as well - and t.'-lis is progably contrary to the public utterances of some members :rom a=oss - that the news !lledia are giving ~'lese committees adequate news coverage. 8ow, I guess it is a matter of

interpretation as to what is adequacy, but each newspaper that I happen to open each day that t.'l.e committees h.ave sat, each news radio station that I might listen to or television station that 1536 .,

\ l r I [ __ .'l.ugust 7, 1979 Tape 6ll EC • 2 I llliqht watcll, seem to be add%essinq ' tbamael.ves at qraat lcqths to. the infonation that is Cl3inq out of these Estimates coaaittees. I alii very encoura.qac! by this, l:lut I thiDk that I am most encouraqed by the fact that there is so IIIUCh part.icipat.ion by the members ccmpri.5U;.q the CCIIIIIIi.ttaes. To IIIB it would appear to be a total. in-mlvement and it is certainly one in widen all. M!Qbers ue pa:tid.pa.tinq to their fullest ability. of co-nra98 that has been g-ivan by the ccamittaes on these Estimates, anc!

I thizllt that this is far in excess of th11 tilDe that would be spent in meaninqful dialoqua s}?.oul.d this sysUm D.ot have been <~.ttampted. To pass a couple of remaz:k.s with respect to the liludqet, itsel.f, I personally was rather gratified to see that ' upenditures in the resource based ciepart:ments have, in fact, increased 1537

,- . .. august 7, 1979 Tape No. 612 GH-l MR. BA!UIETT: rather significantly over previous years. $32 million additional expenditures in these departments, to me, is rather significant, and I guess again it depends on

interpretation, Eut with a province our size 1with the cost of providing essential services, the deployment of that much additional revenues to the resource sectors representing some 22.6 per cent additional funds over last year, certainly indicates to me that this administration is stepping for~ard. The emphasis by this government is certainly suggestive and proven to be directed towards the resource sec=r. Now, there seems to have been some difference of opinion expressed by certain members on this particular point.

Eiowever, I feel that government is approaching the issue in a very responsible manner and that given che fact that almost half the year had elapsed before a Budget had the opportunity of being brought down, I think it is rather significant that this approach has been taken. It would seem that some of the members opposite have difficulty with all aspects of mathematics. There seems to be continuous reference by certain members of the fact that they seem to enjoy being the representatives of rural Newfoundland.

Now1persona1ly 1 I feel much more comfortable being part of a party that represents all parts of Newfoundland, including the tlrban areas. SOME nON. MEMBERS: aear, hear! MR. BARRETT: If someone were to take a few moments to do a bit of checking, they might find that of the 33 members sitting on the government side of this House ll of them represent ~ban areas. Now to my way of thinking, that suggests that there must be 22 members representing rural areas. Now the total composition of the opposite is 19, so ' I '~auld suggest that, if anything, ~ must be representative of more rural areas than those opposite.

In any event, is it really an important issue? I feel that we are here to represen~ the people of this Province. The fact that we represent a specific geographical area is not really all ~hat important~ but if a parallel is to be drawn I would certainly 1538 '

r· I I.- r· - I I '-- ' .. :.ugust. 7 , 979 Tape No. 612 GH-2 MR. BARRETT: rather be party to those tllat repres~t bdth parti.cular sections.

Ravine; had just limited opportunity .to make ollse..~~ns with respect to the Budqet brought down under this govu:oment, in reviewing some of the Est~tes of SOII(e of these departments and previous!:( having made some certain observations while woorkinq in .pri.vate business, it seems,to me1that there ue many instanc .es when a person approacll.ing government for ·some form of financial assistance has ;reat difficulty with trying to identify the proper depart~~~ent in government or the proper branch witlti.n a departmen-t from whom he shoul.d seek such assis1:ance. 1539 '

August 7, 1979 Tape No. 613 GH-l MR. BARRETT: Almost every department of government ,. has some part of it involved in providing financial assistance to ~ne degree or another. It !!lAY ·~ell be that there are some people in government who might readily identify the appropriate department or branch of a department to whom a person seeking assistance could be properly directed.

I would suggest, however, that in a great many cases the person seeking the assistance approaches government by anything other than a direct route_ and a lot of time and in some cases a lot - I I of cost is involved in sorting out this apparent maze. I would li.ke to put forward a suggestion that might permit the people of this Province and its business community that are seeking one form of government assistance or another to do so with the least amount of ' · difficulty.

That suggestion would be that one of the existing government departments, it could be Department of Industrial Develop- ment or some other facility, be the sole government agency from which ' government assistance of a financial nature should be sought.

This would mean that the lending and grant facilities of each of the other government departments would be withdrawn from that particular depart- ~ent and placed under the control of one central faci~ty. ! feel that this would result in much greater efficiency, allow government to respond much more effectively, and eliminate what must be numerous areas of duplication that would presently exist between many of the present government departments.

Another issue that seems to have had a habit of continually rising to the fore is that concern has been expressed from various quarters regarding the effect on small ~ewfoundland companies and privately ~~ businesses resulting from the takeover of some of these companies and businesses by large companies controlled from outside the Province. A couple of areas that come to mind would be the introduction of large mainland chain operations moving into various retail operations, and a growing 1540

' . I' August 7, 1979 Tape No. 613 GH-2 MR. i3ARBE'rr: interest in the smaller fish processing industries throughout the Province by large companies with outside control. On the one hand 1we must consider the fact that 1 in most cases, takeovers by larger groups provide the consumer with possibly a larger variety of goods and services at more competitive prices. ~d ~~e injection of outside capital =eates much needed expansion and employment in many areas.

On the other hand, however, this gradual but yet significant takeover in a growing number of our service and secondary industries sectors,is, in fact, significantly reducing the control that Newfoundlanders have over their own resources; and the resultant profits from the operations could be directed towards growch and development in other areas. The problem appears to be fairly readily identifiable, but the solution, as in many other cases, is probably much more difficult to find.

It might be well said that Newfoundland cannot fully exploit its natural resource, either in the primarJ or secondary industry levels without a significant dependence upon capital from outside this Province. Government, however, must be prepared to assume fundamental responsibility for not allowing foreign control over the primary resource sector. and the Newfoundland people ~~emselves and the business community should be encouraged eo preserve as fully as possible our own control over our secondary and service industries.

Newfoundlanders have long been known for ~~eir ability to save and put away for that proverbial 'rainy day'. It is interesting to note that a recent survey indicates that, at present, there are $750 million in various forms of savings with the commercial banks alone in this Province, and this figure represents an increase of $100 million in savings over the previous year. The total liquid assets of Newfoundlanders are probably in the region of $1. 5 billion, •<~hen one recognizes the other institutions receiving savings de?osits, such as trust 1541. '

(_ A u qu s~ 7 , 1979 Tape No. 613 Gii- 3 MR • .BARBE'l"r: c~s and investments in savinqs l:londs and tne like. Savings by Newfound.la.nda:s are, therefore, substantially large, given the general view that we are considered a poor province with lawer than average incomes and higher than average unemployment. In light of tb..is in£o:t111ation, however, I would suggest that it might be worthy of us to consider the fo:tmlltion of a Newfound­ land :bus.iness investment facility tbat could be known as the 'Newfoundland Opportunity E'und' or the 'Newfoundland Resource Fund' or by any such name. 1542

,- . I ' Auqust 7, 1979 Tape 614 Rr-1 The pu%p0se of this fund could be to provide an opportunity for the averaqe Newfoundlander to invesi by way of share purchase or bend issue 1 in the Province • s future .ux1 business. Several interestinq thouqhts occur in considerinq a plan of this nature, one beinq that it would provide the averaqe person vho)as . 1110ney to place in savinqs/ with the ability to invest in a Newfoundland COIIIP&!lY and thereby derive both a pride of involvement in Newfo.undland' s ecooamic growth as wall as what would hcpafully be an acceptable financial return on that investment.

This return could be by way of a dividend based on the performance of the fund and possibly SOllie additional encouraqement could be accrued and incentive to make the invest:mant by allowinq such invest:lllent to be given some deqree of ceductibility from the Provincial Income Tax section. There are many opportunities for invest:ments in Newfoundland companies that are either developinq or beinq supported _and subjeeted to takeover by larqer groups with outside control. Thesa opportunities occur in fish processinq, in forest products, in aqriculture, in various retail and service related sales.

It is not envisaqed, certainly by me, that this fund would bail out businesses that are not economically viable: the contrary would certainly be my concept. · And to restate that conc:apt would be that the fund would allow Newfoundlanders the opportunity to invest in their own future by maintaininq control in those businesses and industries that participate in the resource sectors.

It is certainly not my intent and no doubt would be beyond rrry capacity to outline a blueprint for puttinq this concept into a meaninqful and viable entity 1 ~owever, I offer this concept as a basis of consideration and to invite CQIIIIIIents frcm other members, on either side as to their ' I views on whether or not they miqht consider this idea worthy of further and fuller consideration.

Mr. ~eaker, I trust that after the Estimates have been tabled by ~~e various committees I miqht have a. further chance to deal more specifically with the financial matters of this Province, ~ut I certainly am encouraqed at ~"-is point in time by the manner in which it is beinq handled and I think that our Province is in qcod hands. Thank you. 1543 '

Auqust 7, 1979 Tape 614 RT-2 , .. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. Si'EAKER: (SiJmns) The hon. the member for Lawisporte. l"..R. WHITE: Mr. Speaker, first of all, this beinq the first formal debate that I have participated in I suppose I should, and I will conqratulate you on beinq elected to that position and I the others who hold the deputy positions. I am delighted that you qot the post and in due course your picture will hanq here in the Laqislature, and that is qood. First of all I would like to say, Mr.

Speaker, that I am deliqhted with the political and eeoDOIIIiC reform that haa been talked about today in the Rouse and in the Leqis lature. I , for one , am daliqhted and I will say so here,that the rules of this House have been c:hanqad. OVer the years it has been one of my pat peeves that, for example, you put a private 1118mber's resolution on the Order Paper and I ·-- it never qets to be debated. I put down a private member's resolution three years in a row on the Order Paper here in this Elouse and another election came and went, and that particular motion was not debated.

I am deliqhted that the new rules have ecme in but I am also surprised, Mr. Speaker, in one respect and that is that the Govermnent 1110ved quickly to brinq in the new rules but the Election Expenses Act bas still not been brought in. And we were told a year ago that the ' .. Election Expenses Act would be brought before this House and I think the Govermnent should level with us and tell us why it has not been brouqht before this L~islature yet.

I know the;re is really no rush to brinq it in in view of the fact that there is a number of years yet before another election ecmes , but I think if the Government can move quickly on the rules that they should also be able to move quickly on the Election Expenses Act.

I would also like to see the Election Expenses Act go before a oommittee,before it is adopted by this House, and I think the Government miqht well be advised to consider putting it before a Committee of the House before the next sitting of the Legislature so that members will have a c!tance to look at it and see whether or not it has any pitfalls. 1544

r- \ . j '- . l_ • .:l.uquse 7 I 1979 Tape 614 MR. WHI'l'E: The privata u.mb&r's resolution that I t.allted about, Mr. Speaker 1 that I put befon thAt House for three years in a ~,had to do with medla coveraqe of the .taqislatun. And today, the passibili ty ' 1545

\. . (". J ' \. .. August 7, 1979 Tape 615 EC - l M."'.. F. WHITE: of having the electronic media, radio an~ television, tape the proceedings of this House an~ use it at will. A lot of research has been done on this. The former Speaker gathered up a great deal of information, several volumes of it, from all across the country, distributed it to members who were interested, and I had a cilanc:e to look at it. I frank.ly think enough researcll has been done on this particular thi.ng an~ I think all that needs to be done now is a. decision made, and I think a decision should be made quickly.

For example, the audio portion of the House is already taped 1JP there. It is taped now. There are jacking facilities thera so that a media IIW1 could take a microphone jack and plug it in and could tape it up there and use it directly on the air if he wanted to. He can t.aka it a tru.rty second clip and use it.

In other words, if I get up and make a speec:il or some hon. member gets up and makes a speec:h and he is emotionally involved in tilat speech, well, the exact words that he says ., an~ the way he says them, the omgtic:n in his speech and so en, should be made available to the public of this Provinca, in my opinion. And I feel the same way about television. There are a number of people who feel that we have to be careful bringing television into the House, that some 11111mber picking his nose !lli.qht show up on the six o' clock news ·that night and all that kind of thing.

Well, I am not as uptight about that as some mambers are. For example, in the Ontario ~gislature, the caJI!Bras set up exactly the same as they do for a press conference and if they · .. an.t to shoot thirty seconds of a minister answering a question, they do that. In the House of Co1111110ns it is somewhat Il¥:lre restricted. In other words, they just zero in on the person who is speaking an~ if someone across the way makes an exchange there the cameras do not change. So, in my opinion, the House of Col!llnJns is too restricted.

I would like to see the :redia have access to the ~gislature and if they wanted to pan over t.'lere or shoot somebody over here, you know, I am totally open on the idea. In other ..-ords, what I am saying is t.'lat ~ere should be total and open exposure to the people of this Province. 1546

August 7, 1979 Tape 615 EC - 2 MR. F. WHITE: I run in tc so many people today in Newfoundl.and who de not have a clue that the Legislature is open. They do not even know it is open. And, you knew, they may read the paper, but if they are sitting out in the park somewhere they are not going tc read the paper, but I suggest if it were carried to sclllll extent on radio and television that people would be 1110re inclined to pay particular attention to what goes on in the Legislature.

I also tlUnk that tl1e myth - and I call it the myth because I tlUnk that tiUs so-called lack of decorum in the !!a use is IIICre a myth than anything alse 1 it is hearsay • it is word of 1110uth 1 _it is talk, }t is not really what goes on here in thi..s !louse. I have sat here for the last three. and one-half years and there have been some hot moments and some heated exc:llanges and I know that is going to go on again during the next three or four years, _?ut I think it is blown totally out ._ of proportion among the people.

Some quy comes in and sits in the gallery for ten minutes and I am arguing back and fortil with the ::tinl.ster of Forest:ry or something and the next thing, the general comment is made t:llat they are ac:till.g like school kids, and I think it is only a general CCIIIIlent. .l!u\d I think that if we exposed the Legislature to t:lle people of this Province on the radio and television that you would get people changing the.ir opinion of what goes on here to a great extent. Mr.

Speaker, there is one item in par'"..icular that I wanted to refer to ccncenU.ng my district of t.ewisporte that touc:hes somewhat on .,.hat the member for Surin - Placentia West (Mr. !iollettl talked about today, and that is the Cotre By Chance oil refinery. Since the Come ay Chance oil refine:ry closed down, the talk in rrry area has dwindled to some extent, but it is restarting again now. And there is a l:lig danger to a particular

section of the Lewisporte economy that evolves around (;ander ai:rport It is a concern t:'lat I want to voice here in this House and I am going to do it today, and that is one of the reasons -..hy I wan tad 1:0 enter into tllis C:ebate fairly briefly. Back when the Come ay Chance oil refinery was first thought about and first started, there was soUte tllought given to t."le ~ssibilit7 of fuel from Come ay Chance going out to supply ~ternational 1547

r \ .. [ r- ' .\uqust 7, 1979 Ta,pe 615 EC- 3 MR. F. W!U'm: fl.iqhts in and out of Gantier &!lei damsti.c flights as well. to Gander Intexnational. Airport. lie haft a tanker or two a week collli.aq into r.awisporte• .:!8 h.a:va a l.Arqe n~ar of people employed tru.ckinq ~· fWtl. aad pumpinq it into ~ in I.ewisporto aad so on. We also hava a situati.gn in I.ewUporta wban 1baca'lllle of the laxqe tank fil%lll that we have in Levi.s.porte, r.ewisporte today 0.11 a per C<P.Pita basis, is the best off llllmicipal.ity in Newfo1Zdl.and. Mast fo:rmer Min.iatars of Municipal Affairs know this. The prase.11t MiniSter of Municipal Affairs (Mr. N. win.asor) knows it as vall. .. 1548 ·,

\ -- r· ) I . I_. r .. I ( . August 7, 1979 Tape No. 616 GH-1 !o!R. WHITE: For example, Mount Pearl has three times as :nany people as Lewispone. Mount Pearl has 10,000, Lewisporte has just over J,Ooo, yet the local tax base in Lewisport is twice the tax base of Mount Pearl. A large portion of that comes from the oil companies, Shell, Imperial, others that are situated in Lewisporte. I had some talks recently wit:h some people in Gander concerning the fuel problem they ware experiencing with the international flights, particularly the Russians that '"ere coming in.

They expressed the opinion 1 then 1 that the thought of bringing fuel from Come by Chance to service the flights landing in Gander is still on their minds, and I am very concerned about that, Mr. Speaker. I am very concerned that if Come by Chance were to reopen, what is going to be the effect on Lewisporter Are we going to see a situation where all the fuel for Gander comes from Come by Chance and all of a sudden Lewisport~is left' out of the picture and you have an economic slump in one sector of the economy in Lewisporte because of ~~t situation?

So, I want to issue ~1is warning to the government and also to ~ own colleagues here, because I know there are some who disagree with me on this point, ~here are a lot who say we have to get the Come by Chance Oil Refinery open at all costs, and I do not say that we have to get ~~ Come by Chance Oil Refinery open at all costs, ~ think we should look at it carefully and I do not want the situation in Lewisporte to be jeopardized by fuel coming out from Come by Chance to service planes in and out of Gander.

It was talked about many years ago, it is being talked about again, ~ I do not think it should be brought into the picture, and I think that that should be left out of the context of reopening the Come by Chance Oil Refinery immediately. There is also the issue of tankers in Placentia Bay. Certainly one of th