Manitoba Hansard — 12 June 2006 (Sitting 88, 38th Legislature, 4th Session)

38-4-88

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LVII No. 88 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, June 12, 2006

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon.

Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

3251 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, June 12, 2006 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYER MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a matter of privilege. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Inkster, on a matter of privilege. Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I rise on a privilege with respect to my privileges as a member not to be obstructed or interfered with in the course of my parliamentary responsibilities. I am going to make a few citations because I do believe this is a very serious matter of contempt.

I am going to refer to Beauchesne's 92, 106; Marleau and Montpetit, pages 67, 86, 87 and 88. First, I must say that, and I will go right to Beauchesne's 92: A valid claim of privilege in respect to the interference with a Member must relate to a Member's parliamentary duties and not to the work the Member does in relation to the Member's constituency. The matter which I am going to be referring to, as you will very clearly see, relates to my responsibilities as an MLA and parliamentary duties. Beauchesne's 106 states in part: Many of the privileges of this House is extended also to its committees, Mr. Speaker.

If we look at Marleau and Montpetit, on page 86, and I quote from there: In ruling on a question of privilege, Speaker Fraser stated: The privileges of a Member are violated by any action which might impede him or her in the fulfilment of his or her duties and function. In wanting to save some time on this, Mr. Speaker, I will just refer to page 87 and page 88 as two other areas that you might want to consult.

But I wanted to also point out on Marleau and Montpetit on page 67, and I will quote direct: There are, however, other affronts against the dignity and the authority of Parliament which may not fall within one of the specifically defined privileges.

Thus, the House also claims the right to punish, as a contempt, any action which, though not a breach of a specific privilege, tends to obstruct or impede the House in its performance of its functions; obstruct or impedes any member or officer of the House in the discharge of their duties; or is an offence against the authority or the dignity of the House, such as the disobedience of legitimate commands or libels upon itself, its members or its officers. * (13:35) Using those citations, this morning in committee, the Chair of the committee, Mr.

Speaker, withheld information that I believe was of critical importance to all Manitobans. Last Thursday, the Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick), as the Chair of a standing committee, was given correspondence which clearly indicated serious concerns in regard to legislation that is actually before this House. In fact, I would ultimately argue that the letter that was advanced to the Member for St. Norbert was from a law firm representing the Treaty Land Entitlement Committee of Manitoba Inc. I will table a copy of the letter.

In that letter you will see that there are some very serious concerns that even open the Province up to liability. What I would like to do is just make a couple of brief quotes from this letter and then continue on, and I will try to be as brief as I can. It is dated June 8, and this is what the Member for St. Norbert would have been issued, and it states: You should also be aware that the framework agreement is the implementation of a treaty right to reserve un der the various numbered treaties found in the province of Manitoba.

Anything which may have an impact on the existing treaty rights of First Nations requires consultation on the part of the government in compliance with the fiduciary obligations and honour the Crown. This includes not only the federal government but the provincial government. Mr. Speaker, the government has opened itself up to an issue of liability because of its negligence. This letter that I am referr ing to should have been provided to members of the standing committee but was not. In the questioning earlier this morning what we found out was that the Chairperson of the committee, the Member for St.

Norbert, upon receiving the correspondence, consulted with the civil service and was told it was for her to ultimately decide in terms of what to do. She then went and shared the correspondence with the minister in

3252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 question, where the letter was written to, and then she went to the Government House Leader (Mr. Mackintosh) to seek advice. It was then determined that this letter, I would ultimately argue, not be shared with members of the committee. Mr. Speaker, I do believe that that in itself is in contempt of the rights and privileges of members and, therefore, I would move, seconded by the Member for River Heights (M r. Gerrard), that this matter be referred to a standing committee of this House where it can be appropriately dealt with. Mr. Speaker: Order.

I have heard enough to make a ruling from the honourable Member for Inkster. The honourable Member for Inkster is out of order. Beauchesne 107: "breaches of privilege in committee may be dealt with only by the House itself on a report from the committee," and Marleau and Montpetit, on page 128, since the House has not given its committees the power to punish any misconduct and breach of privilege or contempt directly, committees cannot decide such matters, they can only report them to the House. This matter has not been reported to the House.

Also, if you look at previous rulings, I made one, two, three, four, five, five same rulings from 2003 to 2005. So the honourable member's privilege is totally out of order. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I have made a ruling, and there are two options the member can take when a Speaker makes a ruling, and that is to either challenge the ruling or to accept the ruli ng. My rulings are not up for debate on the floor of this Chamber. Point of Order Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.

Then I understand the most appropriate time in order to raise this is not when it has occurred and to bring it to the attention of the House. Rather, I have to wait till it is actually brought in for report stage and then it would be valid to raise it at that point in time. Mr. Speaker: There is no prima facie case here. What it is, is in the committee, the member could raise it in committee and then the committee would bring it to the House for the House to deal with it. But it would have to be reported from the committee to the House in order for me to deal with it.

That has not happened, so under our rules I cannot deal with this issue. An Honourable Member: I disagree. Mr. Speaker: Well, there are a lot of rules that members would probably disagree with, but I did not write the rule book. My job is to implement the rules that are before us, and that is all I am doing. We will move on. * (13:40) ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Removal of Agriculture Positions from Minnedosa Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: Nine positions with the Manitoba Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives Crown Lands Branch are being moved out of Minnedosa. Removal of these positions will severely impact the local economy. Removal of these positions will be detrimental to revitalizing this rural agriculture community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the provincial government to consider stopping the removal of these positions from our community, and to consider utilizing current technology in order to maintain these positions in their existing location.

This petition signed by Alex Geletchuk, Charlene Geletchuk, Ruth Brewer and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Grandparents' Access to Grandchildren Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: It is important to recognize and respect the special relationship that exists between grandparents and grandchildren. Maintaining an existing, healthy relationship between a grandparent and a grandchild is in the best

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3253 interest of the child. Grandparents play a critical role in the social and emotional development of their grandchildren. This relationship is vital to promote the intergenerational exchange of culture and heritage, fostering a well-rounded self-identity for the child. In the event of divorce, death of a parent or other life-changing incident, a relationship can be severed without consent of the grandparent or the grandchild.

It should be a priority of the provincial government to provide grandparents with the means to obtain reasonable access to their grandchildren. We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Ms. Melnick) and the Premier (Mr. Doer) to consider amending legislation to improve the process by which grandparents can obtain reasonable access to their grandchildren. Signed by Carol Olafson, Sandra Pawluk, Leona Christiansen and many, many others. Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): M r . Speaker, I wish to present the following petition.

These are the reasons for this petition: It is important to recognize and respect the special relationship that exists between grandparents and grandchildren. Maintaining an existing, healthy relationship between a grandparent and a grandchild is in the best interest of the child. Grandparents play a critical role in the social and emotional development of their grandchildren. This relationship is vital to promote the intergenerational exchange of culture and heritage, fostering a well-rounded self-identity for the child.

In the event of divorce, death of a parent or other life-changing incident, a relationship can be severed without consent of the grandparent or the grandchild. It should be a priority of the provincial government to provide grandparents with the means to obtain reasonable access to their grandchildren. We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Ms. Melnick) and the Premier (Mr. Doer) to consider amending legislation to improve the process by which grandparents can obtain reasonable access to their grandchildren. Signed by P.

Woolley, Ken Willsey, E. Gray, and many, many others. * (13:45) OlyWest Hog Processing Plant Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background for this petition is as follows: The Manitoba government, along with the OlyWest consortium, promoted the development of a mega hog factory within the city of Winnipeg without proper consideration of rural alternatives for the site.

Concerns arising from the hog factory include noxious odours, traffic and road impact, water supply, waste water treatment, decline in property values, cost to taxpayers and proximity to the city's clean drinking water aqueduct. Many Manitobans believe this decision represents poor judgment on behalf of the provincial government. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the provincial government to immediately cancel its plans to support the construction of the OlyWest hog plant and rendering factory near any urban residential area.

Signed by Jessica Sonnenschein, April Johnson, John McEastan and many, many others. Crocus Investment Fund Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: The Manitoba government was made aware of serious problems involving the Crocus Fund back in 2001.

Manitoba's provincial auditor stated "We believe the department was aware of red flags at Crocus and failed to follow up on those in a timely way." As a direct result of the government not acting on what it knew, over 33,000 Crocus investors have lost tens of millions of dollars. The relationship between some union leaders, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP seems to be the

3254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 primary reason as for why the government ignored the red flags. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider the need to seek clarification on why the government did not act on fixing the Crocus Fund back in 2001. To urge the Premier and his government to co- operate in making public what really happened. Signed by G. Taiarol, P. Taiarol, Joey Dyck and many, many other fine Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Scott Smith (Minist er of Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade): Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Robinson), I would like to table the 2005 Annual Report for The Freedo m of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Roxanne Hooker, manager of the Visitors Services Program. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. Also in the Speaker's Gallery we have with us today the legislative page, Gillian Thornton's grandmother, Mrs.

Janet McDowell, and her friends Enid Jordan, Samantha Holland and Kevin Hayes. Also on behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. In the public gallery we have 13 visitors from the Manitoba Public Service Week. This group is from various government departments. Also in the public gallery we have from Whyte Ridge Elementary 54 Grade 4 students under the direction of Mrs. Evelyn Meikle. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. McFadyen).

Also in the public gallery we have from École Van Walleghem School 27 Grade 4 students under the direction of Mrs. Kathy Hughes. This school is also located in the const ituency of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition. Also in the public gallery we have with us from Willow Grove School 11 Grades 2 to 8 students under the direction of Mrs. Gayla Toews. This school is located in th e constituen cy of the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Health Care System ER Physician Shortage Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): We have seen over the past number of weeks the ongoing risk to Manitobans of the ER crisis that we are in the midst of here in the city of Winnipeg. After weeks of mismanagement and weeks of assurances, we had a panicky, a Band-Aid announcement on Friday afternoon from the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale), where he rehashed three out of the four points that were announced a couple of years ago when this crisis first got underway. At the same time that this minister was announcing this panic- induced, Band-Aid, lame solution to this crisis, Mr.

Speaker, he admitted that he had been working on it for six weeks. Four weeks and four days ago in this House, the minister was asked about the ER crisis and he said, and I quote: Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of the record we have achieved in emergency rooms. People are getting the care when they need it. So this is four weeks and four days ago when he admitted Friday that he had been working on a response to this crisis for the past six weeks. My question to the Premier, Mr.

Speaker is: Given that the minister says one thing to this House and to the people of Manitoba, do not worry; be happy; everything is fine in the ERs, at the same time as we have a crisis that is brewing in those ERs that he says on Friday he had been working on it for six weeks, how can Manitobans expect that this minister and this government have any credibility whatsoever when it comes to making commitments to Manitoba about what is going in our health care system? * (13:50) Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, the members opposite would know that the Minister of Health: (

a) was responding to questions about progress and, (

b) also noting, and I think if you will go through Hansard, you will find many answers to

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3255 questions where we did note concerns about shifts on the ERs for this summer, and, by the way, sometimes at the Christmas season and the mid-term break season as well. Mr. Speaker, we have been working with the representatives of the MMA because some of these issues of remuneration require the co-operation of the bargaining unit duly mandated by the doctors. The Minister of Health has been working for a number of weeks with them. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, what we had four weeks and four days ago was the Minister of Health giving assurances to this House in response to questions that everything was doing great in our emergency rooms here in Winnipeg. We know now that the story is completely different. The facts on the ground and at our hospitals are different from what was represented in this House by the Minister of Health, and he admitted as much on Friday when he said he had been working on his Band-Aid solution to this crisis for six weeks. He said that just this past Friday. Mr.

Speaker, on the week end we heard from the head of the Manitoba Nurses' Union, Maureen Hancharyk, who acknowledged that there is a crisis in our ERs and that our ER situation is in dire straits. We also heard the head of the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority, Dr. Postl, saying there have been some close calls, in his words, close calls, in reference to the crisis in our emergency rooms.

Manitobans expect their health care system to be there when they need it, and on May 11, at the same time as the Health Minister was supposedly crafting his solution, he was telling this House and the people of Manitoba that Manitobans are getting the care they need when they need it. He was not being forthcoming with the people of Manitoba, and we now know that to be the case. Mr.

Speaker, does the Premier think that a 70- year-old man who spent three days in an emergency room got the care he needed when he needed it, and if the Premier thinks that a young man who waited eight hours in emergency without being seen and ultimately suffered a ruptur ed appendix, were these two Manitobans getting the care that they needed when they needed, as this Minister of Health assured us they would be? Mr. Doer: The member opposite raises any number of issues in his lengthy

preamble. Dealing with medical remuneration, the doctors in Manitoba have gone from second-lowest paid in Canada when we came into office, when he was a principal secretary to the Premier, to very close to the middle in terms of recruitment and retention. Nurses went from the second lowest in Canada, when the members opposite were in power. They fired a thousand nurses, also according to Maureen Hancharyk. If they want to quote Maureen Hancharyk, let us go over the dark days when they fired a thousand nurses in Manitoba and he was in the Premier's Office, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, the Premier's spin is starting to wear thin on Manitobans. I refer him to a couple of the Winnipeg Sun editorial cartoons that we have seen in the last little while. The sultan of spin, in today's cartoon. No credibility whatsoever when it comes to talking about health care, and he has made that point again in that answer. The Premier knows as a fact as a former union boss, as an expert on labour-management issues, he knows that when nurses we re given notices in the 1990s, they were immediately rehired. It was part of the transition.

The Premier knows that this is part of the transition from one employer to another within our health care system, that there was a technical step that was taken to change employers. It is the biggest lie that has been perpetuated to Manitobans in the matter of politics, Mr. Speaker. It is right up there with this lie about fixing– * (13:55) Mr. Speaker: Order. All members are honourable members in this Chamber. I ask the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition to withdraw that word. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, I recognize that it is unparliamentary to call a liar a liar, and so I withdraw my– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on an unqualified withdrawal. Mr. McFadyen: I withdraw the comments, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: That should take care of the matter. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, you can be any– Mr. Speaker: Order. An Honourable Member: He sat down.

3256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 Mr. Speaker: No, he had not. I was dealing with a point of order, and I thought the honourable member had concluded but obviously he has not. We do have leader's latitude in this Chamber. Mr. McFadyen: The point was simply that misinformation has been provided with respect to the issue of a thousand nurses. It is something that the Premier has continuously referred back to, and I think it is about time that somebody called him on it, Mr.

Speaker, and that is exactly what we are going to continue to do because Manitobans are getting tired of the spin and they are not buying it anymore. I want to come back to what is a very serious issue for Manitobans, which is the crisis in our emergency rooms. Dr. de Faria, the head of emergency services at Seven Oaks, is worried about what will happen to the ER physicians who are taking on the heavy load in order to Band-Aid over the crisis which has been created under the watch of this government.

Dr. de Faria is worried that those doctors who are working in our emergency rooms could tire and that this could lead to catastrophe. Can the Premier indicate, in light of the announcement made on Friday, how many of the 350 unfilled shifts have been filled since the Health Minister announced his Band-Aid solution last Friday? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, dealing with the arrogant Opposition Leader– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Mr. Doer: Yes, he wants to quote in one question, Maureen Hancharyk.

Then when Maureen Hancharyk's quote about a thousand less nurses is utilized, he runs to the hills, Mr. Speaker. I would point out the nurses' registry had 1,573 less nurses in the nineties when the member opposite was calling the shots in the former Premier's Office, and it has over 1,300 more now on the registry. On emergency wards, we have consistently stated– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:00) Mr. Doer: We have stated over the questions that have been in the House on the emergency wards, Mr. Speaker, that there are challe nges on the shifts this summer.

We have stated that we have made progress on the number of patients in the hallways. We have stated that there are more doctors when you look at the numbers that have been employed to backfill the emergency room doctors. There are 47 bordered nurses in emergency wards in the Winnipeg hospitals, 18 of which are the first nurses in Canada to be part of a reassessment unit. Yes, there are difficult triage decisions made every day by nurses and doctors.

Many lives are saved every day in our emergency wards, and I want to praise the nurses, the doctors, the diagnostic staff who are working in the most critical part of our health care system at the emergency wards. They save lives every day, Mr. Speaker. They save lives on behalf of Manitobans every day. Yes, we still have work ahead of us on the emergency wards. We acknowledge that, but we are starting from a lot more nurses in the system than there were in the dark days of the Tories. Health Care System ER Physician Shortage Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr.

Speaker, on Friday, the Minister of Health said he had worked six weeks to throw together his four- point Band-Aid solution to ER crisis 2006. It is strange that it took so long, considering three of those points were a rehash from the 2003 crisis. I would like to ask the Minister of Health, seeing as the Premier (Mr. Doer) would not answer the question, how many of the 350 shifts have been filled since his announcement on Friday, his announcement of the bonus. How many of those shifts have been filled? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Well, Mr.

Speaker, I was delighted to work through our department with all of the partners involved in our ERs, the Manitoba Medical Association, the medical departments of our various hospitals, the nursing departments, the head of nursing at WRHA. We have been working with our RHA partners for a number of weeks to look at whether the crisis this summer would be of any material difference than it usually is in terms of holiday times. The determination was that we needed to take extraordinary measures. We have done that, Mr. Speaker. They are not a rehash.

In fact, when you are offering the kind of support we are to our emergency room doctors, I think they will respond positively. But to expect this to be done in two days is a bit much. They are meeting this week on this issue.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3257 Extended Practice Nurses Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): In Friday's damage control announcement, the Minister of Health announced that extended practice nurses would be part of the solution. That also was an announcement back in 2003, but in the Estimates the Minister of Health said that there are only 13 extended practice nurses in Manitoba. So while it sounds good in writing, can the minister tell us where is he going to find all of the nurses for his extended practice promise when we do not hardly have any in Manitoba. Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Well, of course, first of all, one might ask why there is a shortage of extended practice nurses. It might have something to do with the fact that in their last year in government, there were only 280 nurses graduated in the whole province and there was no extended practice nursing program in place. There is another number of grads coming out of this year's class. All will be offered opportunities for the various practice skills that they have. That class graduates more or less as we speak. They will be offered opportunities to take

part in the system, Mr. Speaker. We have more extended practice nurses than we have ever had in the past but exactly the same answer pertains to this question. When you cancel programs and cut off the pipeline, a few years later you have a problem. They cut off the pipeline. ER Specialty Graduates Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I am not even quite sure what to say to some of these comments from the minister because he is not even making sens e in all of them. Since the NDP formed government– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Driedger: Mr.

Speaker, the damage control and the Band-Aid solutions are not going to solve this problem. Since the NDP formed government, 13 doctors have graduated from the ER specialty program as of this month a nd only four of them are in Manitoba. The rest have left and I understand that one of the two new grads will also be leaving. I would just like to point out to this government: in '05, they had three grads; one went to Vancouver, one to Australia. The next year, one went to Ohio, one went to Ottawa, one went to Saudi Arabia.

So I would like to ask the Minister of Health: Why have we lost 70 percent of our ER specialty grads? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): I am informed that in fact there are a number of grads from this year who will be working the emergency departments of hospitals such as Seven Oaks. Another will be going into the third year of the emergency medicine program, another is available to do locums in rural Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Another is assisting covering emergency departments over the summer, another will be assisting covering the second one in covering emergency departments over the summer.

Another is finishing her work in the emergency medicine program. So that is five we are up to out of this year's approximately 20 graduates who are either going to be working in or completing their studies in emergency medicine. So the member as usual is wrong. Education System Grade 3 Assessments Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, during Question Period last Thursday I asked the Minister of Education about the disappointing results reflected in the Grade 3 assessments that were just released last week by the Department of Education.

Specifically, I asked the minister why this government has failed to respond when those results for four years have indicated that the provincial education system was not adequately educating Manitoba's children at that level. The minister responded with something to the effect that they had had stakeholder consultations. Mr. Speaker, going back to 1999, and this is another famous broken promise from this Premier. Going back to the 1999 election the Premier said, and I quote: Every child will be reading and writing fluently in their Grade 3 year.

If not, the teacher and parent must work out an effective plan and address the child's problems. That is our Grade 3 guarantee. This is from the NDP leader in 1999. Seven years later, Mr. Speaker, we see results coming out showing that 40 percent of students entering Grade 3 are failing to meet expectations when it comes to reading and writing. My question to the Premier is this: Given his guarantee, his personal guarantee, now almost seven years ago, and given that we have what we know to be great students and great teachers in our system but a government that is not delivering results, will the

3258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 Premier admit that his Grade 3 guarantee was just another phoney NDP election promise? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well you know, Mr. Speaker, I know the member opposite was the co- chair of the '99 election campaign. I did not know he was that bitter that he was going to continue to fight the '99 election over and over and over again. I know members opposite come from the kind of divine right of kings view of the Tories being the party in Manitoba. You know, get over it. The people have spoken in '99 and 2003. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, the people of Manitoba had every right and every reason to take him at his word in 1999. It is abundantly clear today that he did not mean one bit of what he was telling the people of Manitoba in 1999, and they are going to pass judgment accordingly. The people of Manitoba will have the last word and I respect that.

They will look at his promises, they will look at his phoney commitment, his phoney Grade 3 guarantee in 1999, his phoney promise to end hallway medicine in 1999, and I am confident that the people of Manitoba will make the decision based on all the information and based on the deplorable record of making promises and not keeping them of this Premier and this government. Mr. Speaker, four years ago the then-Minister of Education, the Member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell), indicated that the government had work to do to improve student outcomes. This is over four years and the results are getting worse.

The results have gotten worse since that time in four out of eight measurements in the mathematical category. In terms of Grade 3 reading within English programs, the very specific subject of the Prem ier's personal guarantee, the results are virtually flat over the past four years with 40 percent of Manitoba children falling short of expectations in this important area. Why will the Premier not just admit that the results are unacceptable?

Why will he not get on with the job of fixing the education system, supporting our teachers, su pporting our students and making sure that they learn the things that they need to learn to be successful? * (14:10) Mr. Doer: A couple of points, Mr. Speaker. The number of people taking tests when we came into office was less than 45 percent. So members opposite were talking about quote, "standard tests" for 45 percent of the children here in Manitoba, and it was costing a fortune in terms of those results. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, we have used the results to help in teaching and, secondly, to help invest- ments.

We increased the mathematical investments in the early years when we saw some of the results were not up to what we would like. That is very important to direct more resources. Kids in Grade 3, the tests dealing with mathematics were not in our view sufficient, and we put more investment into those results. I would point out, Mr. Speaker, also, we are the first province in Canada that has introduced the EDI testing for kids at kindergarten, early childhood development testing. We are the first province in Canada that now has had buy-in. It has taken three or four years.

We have had buy-in now, slowly but surely, from every school division in Manitoba. So we have brought in tests for every child entering kindergarten in Manitoba, the first province in Canada to do so. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, the Premier has his facts wrong. In 1998, it was 88 percent of Manitoba students that were taking the Grade 3 standards test. So I encourage the Premier to go back and check his facts before he comes into this House with information that is just wrong. Mr. Speaker, the Premier talks about increasing spending and taking steps, but the results continue to speak for themselves.

Four years after his then- Minister of Education admitted that the system was not doing its job, four years later, no change in the area of language and reading and writing. Four years later, we have actually had a decline in four out of eight categories in mathematics. When is the Premier going to hold somebody accountable? He has not held his ministers of Health accountable for delivering on his 1999 commitment to end hallway medicine. He has not held anybody accountable for the failure of the Crocus Fund. He has not held anybody accountable for their failures in Child and Family Services.

When is he going to hold somebody accountable for something that has gone wrong in his government? When is he going to hold somebody accountable for failing Manitoba students?

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3259 Mr. Doer: Apparently Mr. Orchard was skulking around the hallways today an d, Mr. Speaker, here is the man talking about accountability. His terms of reference dealing with account ability were to look at the legislation from '99 on under the Doer government, look at other action only from '99 on. He never wanted the old Tories to look at the legislation the old Tories passed. They never wanted to look at the relationship between Wellington West. That is the accountability we see from the arrogant member opposite. Education System Grade 3 Assessments Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, there are so many broken promises that have been made by this Premier (Mr. Doer) and this government since they took office in 1999. It is very difficult to even keep track of them all. The Grade 3 guarantee is but one of these promises that this Premier made in the 1999 election campaign, a promise, I might add, that he has failed to deliver on. Mr. Speaker, how can Manitoba parents trust this government when they are clearly breaking their promise that they made of a Grade 3 guarantee? The teachers are doing their job. The parents and the children are doing their job.

Why is this Premier not and why is this Minister of Education not doing their job? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Well, Mr. Speaker, last week, members opposite raised the issue of testing. We talk about assessment because that is the difference between us and them. Assessment is something that happens at the front end of the year. If the member would read the report, the member referred to the numbers, but the member should read where it says: The teacher uses assessment informa- tion to plan appropriate strategies for individual students.

Teachers and parents then work together in planning for the success and improvement of the child's learning. This is front-end assessment. It is not tests which are administered at the end of the year which at that point, Mr. Speaker, it is too late. We have taken the results. We have increased funding for early numeracy initiatives. We have increased funding for early literacy initiatives. In fact, that funding was about $3.5 million for those two initiatives, which was almost double their investment in the entire education system. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr.

Speaker, what this Minister of Education refuses to acknowledge is the fact that the percentage that this Province has put into education over the years has declined since they took office from 60.9 percent to 56 percent, according to Brian Ardern the head of MTS. So I would be careful about the use of their numbers. They are pretty fast and loose with their numbers. I ask the Minister of Education: Why is he waiting? The Minister of Education, four years ago said that there is more work to be done. Why is he not working on this? Why is he not working on this for the sake of our children?

Why does he not get to work? Mr. Bjornson: The members opposite, last week we talked about all the initiatives that we have brought forward to increase student success and the investment that we brought forward to increase student success. We have special programs for community schools where low SES factors are a barrier to learning. We have English as an additional language initiative, and a fund specifically for war- affected children who have barriers to learning. We have national results through PISA that show that our efforts have been paying off.

We have a whole litany of assessment tools, not just standardized tests but assessment programs. We have an assessment for learning as learning that will be piloted in Grades 7 and 8. We have the PISA results from an externally administered test and the standard tests in– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, I guess, so much for the Grade 3 guarantee, Mr. Sp eaker. I guess it is non- existent, and they are refu sing to acknowledge that things need to be done there. Neither the Minister of Education nor the Premier (Mr.

Doer) seems to want to take responsibility for the abysmal results of these Grade 3 assessments. Mr. Speaker, 60 percent of children do not meet expectations in subtraction facts to 10. Only 60 percent of children meet expectations in reading comprehension, far less than the 100 percent guarantee made by this Premier back in 1999. What will it take for the minister and the Premier to stand up for our children, to do the right thing, to take responsibility for their actions and these abysmal results and do something for our children? Mr. Bjornson: Well, Mr.

Speaker, if investing $1.6 million in the entire education system in five years is standing up for education, our investment was $155

3260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 million since we have been in office. We funded at the rate of economic growth, over a 20 percent increase in education funding. We are supporting teachers through professional development. We are developing meaningful curriculum through stake- holder consultations. We are investing in assessment as learning for learning.

Members opposite put all kinds of money into testing, but if they would have done their homework and looked at research, in order to get appropriate results from stan dardized tests you have to appropriately resource and fund an education system. A $1.6-million investment in education in five years? I will stand on this side of the House and our record any day. Manitoba Economy Declining Labour Force Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, according to Statistics Canada, Manitoba's labour force shrank by 2,400 in the space of only one month from April 2006 to May 2006.

Young families are leaving Manitoba like never before to seek long- term sustainable jobs. So I ask the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger): Why has he failed to create an economy in Manitoba capable of retaining our young families in Manitoba? Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): I would like to inform the member opposite that we have had 14,000 new full-time jobs in the last year. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite might need to know that we have had the highest employment level in Manitoba's history of 580 to 8,200, which is far exceeding any time under the Tories.

We have had good growth. We have had good diversity and our economy is doing exceptionally well. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, other provinces are increasing the size of th eir labour force at the expense of Manitoba. While Manitoba lost 2,400 in its labour force, Canada as a whole has grown its labour force. A loss of 2,400 in Manitoba's labour force could translate into a population as much as 10,000 people leaving our province for greener pastures. So I ask the Minister of Finance: Why does he refuse to admit that his NDP economic policies are driving our young families out of Manitoba? * (14:20) Mr. Rondeau: Mr.

Speaker, I am shocked at the member opposite. He does not realize that over the last six years youth employment has grown by 1,300 per year, which is a 179 percent improvement over that of the Tories. The other thing, we have more employments, 588,200. That is far more than under any Conservative government previously. Not only that, we had the second-lowest unemployment level at 4.2 percent, but I would like to let all members know that the number of unemployed is down 18.3 percent, nearly double Canada's drop. We are doing well. People are employed, jobs are growing, the economy is growing.

We are doing very, very well. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, what the minister fails to mentions is we have the second-lowest unemployment levels because they are leaving for Alberta. They are not staying in Manitoba. The only jobs this NDP government is capable of creating in Manitoba are jobs driven through the expenditure of public money. Manufacturing jobs last year shrank by 6,100 and another 3,000 jobs were lost in professional, scientific and technical areas.

The only job growth in Manitoba are those that are not sustainable for the long term, jobs like construction on the floodway expansion and on the Hydro building. So I ask the Minister of Finance: Why has he failed to create those long-term, sustainable jobs in Manitoba? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Industry has so ably responded, we have more people working in Manitoba than we have ever had in the history of the province; 588,000 Manitobans are working.

As a result, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, one of the lowest youth unemployment rates in the country, the highest participation rate. By the way, wages are going up. Personal disposable income is on the increase. It is up over 7 percent since we have come to office. When members opposite were in office, Manitobans were actually getting poorer. Their personal disposable income was going down. They made Manitoba poorer, we have made it richer.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3261 Agriculture Industry CFIA Inspections Mrs. Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, a Westman feed processor is experiencing ongoing difficulties with the federal inspector for this region. There has been a long-running dispute over the quality and thoroughness of the inspections conducted by CFIA representatives, and it is impeding his business operations. Several months ago, the Deputy Minister of Agriculture agreed to mediate this dispute. Can the Minister of Agriculture indicate whether a meeting has been scheduled with my constituent? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, I will inquire of my deputy minister, and I will return to the House with information. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, as of 1:15 today, my constituent has not heard from this minister's office. He is growing very concerned about the status of his facility and whether the quality of inspections will improve. Will the minister commit to ensuring this issue is resolved immediately? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, CFIA is a federal body, it is not a provincial body.

But, certainly, if the member will share with me the name of the individual, I would be very happy to inquire on his behalf. Mrs. Rowat: This minister is obviously having difficulty in responding to the challenges current slaughter facilities have in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Her focus and energy appear to be on how to tax the cattle producers in Manitoba. Perhaps there is simply no money to be made by actively supporting those already in business. This minister should be ashamed. Mr. Speaker, why is it so difficult for this minister to work with existing processors? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, in fact, it is not difficult at all to work with existing processors. We have put in place programs. We have put in place funding, money for people who want to expand their facilities so they can do their feasibility studies. There is money, if they are going to expand their facility, where we will cover a portion of their costs. I am very committed to increasing slaughter capacity in this province.

That is why we have programs to work with existing slaughter facilities, and I would encourage the member to talk to her constituents and tell them to apply to the fund, to the Enhancement Council, so maybe they will qualify to have equity on behalf of producers in their facility as well. Portage Place Development Construction Costs Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, by the time Portage Place was completed in September of 1987, there was a reported cost of some $330 million, of which $76 million at least was government: federal, provincial and municipal dollars.

I table today documents which show that under this NDP Premier's watch, Portage Place was sold May 3, 2005 for the sum of $1. The same document indicates a value of $15.8 million at the time. My question to the Premier (Mr. Doer) whose party was in government at the time Portage Place was built: Can he please explain to the Legislature why Portage Place would have been sold for so much less than it was worth, for one, single dollar? Hon. Scott Smith (Minist er of Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade): Mr.

Speaker, the Portage Place agreement that we have had with the federal government, certainly the provincial and certainly with the municipal government, has worked extremely well over the last period of time. We have seen very close to a lot of the redevelopments being on time. On the Portage Place development, we have seen right across the street from many of the developments the new MTS Centre that has been constructed. The value of that property increased, and the re-investments in the downtown.

We have seen the Waterfront Drive develop, we have seen the Hydro building develop downtown and we are seeing certainly the Portage Place north redevelopment that is continuing to expand and continuing to develop. Mr. Speaker, for this me mber opposite to have shed a negative light on the hard work that they have done is very, very– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, Portage Place was built with tens of millions of do llars of taxpayers' money, public funds. It was built under an NDP government when this Premier was, in fact, for part of the time minister of urban affairs.

One would think that he would know something about what was going on. There must be some reason why an asset which was

3262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 so valuable was sold for a sum of one dollar. Either the Premier does not know, or he will not say, and you would think that the Premier who has talked so much about Winnipeg would probably know. Given the Premier's record of hiding things in regard to Crocus, I would ask: Will the Premier tell us what has happened or is he going to hide this too? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, I know that this matter was discussed with the previous federal Liberal government over the last 11 years and with the other stakeholders under the stewardship of Bill Norrie.

There are other related matters that are important to point out. For example, there are some assets that are worth way more money today related to the Portage Place investment that will realize considerable improvements in the financial situation to the entity. It is in discussion now with the mayor and the federal government how that extra money will be dealt with. I am not at liberty to talk about the private companies, Mr. Speaker, but when those agreements are resolved, I will be able to report to the House. But there is money and assets there for the public. Grand Rapids Residents Financial Compensation Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, years ago, houses were bulldozed to the ground. There has been a group of residents that are camping out on our Legislative grounds in protest of this government's neglect in recognizing the need for any form of financial compensation. Just recently, less than an hour ago, I was told that now there is a threat of a potential hunger strike as a direct result of this government not listening, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very serious issue, and they want the government, the Premier, to recognize the seriousness of this and to acknowledge that there is, indeed, a need for some form of financial compensation. Will this Premier go out of his way to prevent any form of a hunger strike and acknowledge that there is a need for some form of financial compensation for this group of people from Grand Rapids? * (14:30) Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, I would encourage any group in society in Manitoba or any other province in Canada to try to make their case as best they can and not indulge in a hunger strike.

I would point out that I was in Grand Rapids recently, meeting with the total community to deal with the dam that was actually planned by the former Liberal government, by the way, Mr. Campbell's government, built and completed by the Conservatives, 500 miles of flooding that took place. We met and there was a body established with Hydro, with the First Nation, with a separate group elected by the MMF, a separate group from the community. There are some individuals in the community who believe the Manitoba Métis Federation or the town mayor or the First Nation is not able to represent them. It is a de mocracy.

I cannot tell them how to be represented but we certainly, when we went to Grand Rapids, established a working group to look at some of the issues of the dam and the flooding that was built years ago. I would encourage any Manitoban not to participate in anything that could be unhealthy to their health. I would ask the member opposite to also give that same encouragement. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS National Aboriginal Day Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Mr. Speaker, I rise in recognition of National Aboriginal Day, celebrated annually on the first day of summer, June 21.

This day is an important occasion to celebrate the many contributions that First Nations, Métis and Inuit people have made to our country. National Aboriginal Day was proclaimed in 1996 as an official day of celebration of Aboriginal heritage and admiration for the contributions of Aboriginal Canadians. June 21, the summer solstice, the first day of summer and longest day of the year, was chosen for its cultural significance to Aboriginal people. On June 21, many events will take place throughout the province to celebrate this day.

In Winnipeg, events are scheduled to take place in Thunderbird House, at The Forks and on Selkirk Avenue. This year, thanks to the hard work of many people, a historic settlement compensating survivors of residential schools was finally completed. I congratulate the Aboriginal leaders who worked to

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3263 achieve this historic settlement. This was long overdue recognition for those who suffered at residential schools. Mr. Speaker, in celebrating this day we cannot forget the ongoing struggle to improve health, education, housing and economic opportunities for Aboriginal people on reserves, in rural and northern communities and in our cities. I am proud to be part of a government that supports the Kelowna accord.

Our government is also moving ahead with treaty land entitlement and introduced amendments to The Real Property Act to help speed up the treaty land entitlement process. At the recent Western Premiers' Conference in Gimli, all western premiers reaffirmed their commitment to closing the gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Canadians. Accomplishing this will also require a true and continuing commitment from our federal government. Mr.

Speaker, on June 21, I encourage all members and the public to celebrate the contribu- tions and achievements of First Nations, Métis and Inuit people and to work toward a brighter future for all. Thank you and meegwetch. Clean Air Day Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House about a wonderful event that I attended last week in Portage la Prairie. The event was in celebration of Clean Air Day and Commuter Challenge 2006.

I truly enjoyed walking and speaking with the students of North Memorial School to promote awareness about pollution and encouraging a healthy lifestyle through exercise and a nutritional diet. Might I add, the breakfast was absolutely delicious. I was very pleased with the turnout to this event. In my role as critic for Conservation, I am always glad to see young people taking an interest in protecting the environment. While I was privileged to speak at this event, I must admit that I was, by no means, the guest of honour. This distinction without a doubt went to three-time Olympic medalist, Jennifer Botterill.

It was very gracious of Ms. Botterill to take not only a walk with all of us, but to offer all the kids her perspective on healthy living and achieving your goals. As someone who is recognized as the best in the world of sport, Jennifer can truly speak with authority on the importance of healthy lifestyles. I would like to thank her for taking the time out of her busy

schedule to participate in these festivities. Mr. Speaker, I would like to personally thank Mr. Chuck Naish, principal, and the staff of North Memorial School for organizing this most worthwhile event with the support of Jackie Avent from Resource Conservation Manitoba and Viola Prowse from the Manitoba Council on Child Nutrition. I especially want to recognize the students and their parents for attending the Clean Air Day event in promotion of a cleaner environment and a healthier living through exercise and nutrition. Thank you ever so much. Philippine Heritage Week Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): Mr.

Speaker, last Saturday I represented the Premier (Mr. Doer) at the flag-raising ceremony marking the beginning of a week of events in celebration regarding Philippine Heritage Week. I should also note that today, June 12, is the Philippine Independence Day. Both celebrations display the dynamism and vitality that is so characteristic of Manitoba's Filipino community. As 2006 is the 30th anniversary of the first large wave of Filipino immigration to Manitoba, these celebrations take on a special significance. Philippine Independence Day recalls a momentous event in the history of the Philippines.

In 1898, the Philippines decl ared its independence and sovereignty from its col onial rulers, an event asserting its desire for national autonomy. Mr. Speaker, the passion and commitment of Filipino people have served them well since that time. Our Heritage Week highlights the many contributions Filipinos have made to this province since the first immigrants arrived in the late 1950s and early 1960s. And if our Filipino community's contributions have not always been fully appreciated, the perseverance, hard work and hospitality of its many members have left a lasting mark on our province.

With a population that is 40,000 strong, Manitoba's Filipino community is now an essential link in our multicultural province. I would like to congratulate the Philippine Heritage Council Co-ordinating Committee chaired by Perla Javate and her members, and all dedicated volunteers and participating groups for organizing this week of celebrations. I also ask that all members of this House join me in celebrating Philippine Independence Day and attend events surrounding the Philippine Heritage Week. These commemorative

3264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 days serve to recall this community's storied past as well as recognizing the important part played by– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Aglugub: I ask for leave, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Aglugub: These commemorative days serve to recall this community's storied past as well as recognizing the important part played by Filipinos in building Manitoba and Canada. Maraming Salamat, Mr. Speaker. Russell Constituency Activities Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr.

Speaker, I rise today to note two activities undertaken by the community of Russell to build on the promotion of tourism and the beautiful natural resources of the area and, of course, the human resources in the area as well. On June 3, 4 and 5, Mr. Speaker, the Lions Club hosted the Lake of the Prairies Walleye Classic Derby which brought in more than 150 boats and more than 300 entries. The fishing derby was an outstanding success and the entire community, the organizations, the individuals within that community were all a beehive of activity throughout the weekend. This past weekend, Mr.

Speaker, Russell kicked off the third annual Birdfest and Art Exhibition known as Wings Over Russell. This activity will continue for the next seven days with activities such as a wildflower tour, the Duck Mountain area tour, the bluebird sighting tour, the historic millwood tour, a canoe tour down the Assiniboine River and the bald eagle sighting tour. The creator, Lois Wilson, and the Russell Inn have worked in partnership to create this event which brings in large numbers of people to the area and capitalizes on the resources and natural beauty of the area. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to congratulate all of those individuals who have taken a

part in hosting and in organizing these very successful events in that area. Thank you. Thompson 50th Anniversary Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, 2006 is a significant year as we celebrate Thompson's 50th anniversary. There is a lot to celebrate. Thompson is the third- largest city in Manitoba. We are a key regional centre with one of the most diverse populations in the province. We have built not only the model mining community but the model community as well.

When I first arrived in Thompson in the 1960s with my mom and dad, Nedra and John Ashton, it was an exciting community to live in. Thompson was growing rapidly, and there was a housing shortage that was only alleviated by the availability of basement suites. We attended school in shifts at what was then Thompson High School, now R.D. Parker Collegiate. A drive to Winnipeg was 12 hours. There was no Highway 6, and Highway 391 out of Thompson was a gravel road where it was not uncommon to get stuck in bad weather. There was no live TV.

In fact, the only option was cable television which consisted of four hours recorded from a week earlier. * (14:40) In looking back at Thompson in the early days, it is amazing how much was accomplished. Inco developed one of the world's leading integrated nickel operations. New schools, a hospital, churches, community halls and facilities were all built at an amazing pace. In the process, a real community spirit has developed that is truly northern and unique. We can be truly proud of the degree which Thompson has become an open and dynamic community.

Newcomers to Thompson have always been welcome and encouraged to be part of our community. Over the years, Thompson has become increasingly diverse and we are a community that is very proud to have been built by Aboriginal people, people from all over Canada and people from all over the world. In looking ahead to the future it is hard not to be optimistic. After 50 years, Thompson is growing again and diversifying, economically. We are continuing to build our community's infrastructure through improvements to our recreational facilities, the new personal care home and our highways.

We are also developing more and more partnerships both within Thompson and with other northern communities. Thompson has a bright future. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask all members of the Legislature to join me in wishing Thompson a happy 50th anniversary.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3265 GRIEVANCES Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Tuxedo, with a grievance? Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, regretfully, I have to get up today on a grievance when it comes to the state of our education system. Unfortunately, we have had some results that have come out with our Grade 3 assessments over the last little while. Those results are abysmal. Not only were they unacceptable back in 2002, when I last asked the Minister of Education the same questions.

The Minister of Education at the time felt that those results could be a lot better and they needed to work on them. He said, and I quote, and this is what the Member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell) said: The results obviously point to a need to improve student outcomes. It does show we have work to do system- wide. Well, Mr. Speaker, that was back in 2002, when the results were even better in many areas than they are now. That really concerns me. Obviously, back then they felt that there was a very important issue here.

Now, they seem to be wiping their hands of the issue and trying to pass blame on to pretty much everybody else in the system, rather than taking responsibility for their own actions, keeping in mind that education is in fact a provincial responsibility and it should be followed through by the Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson) and by the Premier (Mr. Doer) of our province. As a matter of fact back in 2002, the Premier did indicate, Mr.

Speaker, on CJOB in an interview, he said that there is one test result that is negative, and we are going to use that to find out why that is happening at earlier Grades 1 and 2, and also use that to have a plan for each individual kid to get them up to speed. Well, I would remind the Premier that that was, in fact, four years ago, Mr . Speaker. If he felt that there was work that needed to be done there and then, I question why it has not been done. I think it is extremely unfortunate for the education of our children, who really are th e future of our province.

So, I am concerned that the Minister of Education as well as the Premier who, by the way, made the promise back in the 1999 election campaign. We know how this government likes to talk about things during election campaigns, talk about promises that they cannot keep. There have been quite a number of them, whether it has to do with health care or education or justice. Pretty much right across the board, we can find something in pretty much every government department where promises were made seven years ago, promises that have not been kept. Mr.

Speaker, the one that I am speaking of today is something that is very dear to my heart. I do have two children that will be entering the school system over the next few years. I want to ensure that my children are given the opportunity to succeed in our province and to remain here in our province after they graduate. We want to make sure, and I want to make sure as a parent that I give the proper tools to my children to make sure that they can succeed. But it is not just about my children, it should be about every child in Manitoba and a guarantee that the Premier made back in 1999.

He guaranteed that every child will be reading and writing in their Grade 3 year. Well, only 60 percent of children this year meet expectations when it comes to reading comprehension, only 63 percent of students when it comes to oral reading skills and strategies, only 55 percent when it comes to reflection. Mr. Speaker, that is not 100 percent. That is not every child. That was a guarantee that was made by this Premier (Mr. Doer) back in 1999 during a hotly contested election race.

It seems that the Leader of the Opposition at the time was obviously desperate when he starts throwing out things like ending hallway medicine in six months with $15 million. Grade 3 guarantees: You know, a guarantee that every child will be reading and writing in Grade 3 year. Well, Mr. Speaker, th e important thing to note here is that this Premier has time and time and time again broken his promise to Manitobans, and he needs to stand up, be accountable and take responsibility for his own actions because he has not only failed the children in this province, but he has also failed patients.

He has failed people that pertain to every government department where a promise has been made and promises have been broken. Manitobans know what this Premier is all about, what this NDP government is all about. They know that they are about broken promises, Mr. Speaker. They know they are not accountable for their actions, and I would suggest it is time for a change and to have a Premier of this province that will stand up for his word and be accountable to Manitobans. So, on that note, I just want to talk just very briefly about education funding because time and time again the Minister of Education (Mr.

Bjornson)

3266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 and the Premier stand up and like to cheer about education funding and how much they have done for education funding in our province, Mr. Speaker. Well, I am sure the member opposite is aware of who Brian Ardern is, the president of the Manitoba Teachers' Society. He, I know, has frequented the minister's office several times over the last few months and over the last few years since this minister has been Education Minister and certainly many times before that, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Ardern himself wrote a letter to the Winnipeg Free Press talking about the decline in the percentage of education funding, the provincial portion of education funding. It went from 60.9 percent in 1999 to 56 percent now. I know members opposite like to talk about how tax credits are funding education. Well, Mr. Speaker, tax credits do not fund education. Tax credits give money back to Manitobans that deserve to have more money in their pockets because this government has continuously raided their pockets over th e years. So that should not be included as part of the percentage of education funding.

Education funding should be absolutely how much goes to the funding of education, not the funding of money that rightly should have been back in the pockets of Manitobans in the first place and should never have been raided in the first place. So I do dispute the numbers that the members opposite use. I think that they are misleading to Manitobans, and again, they are just not being accountable for our children in the education system, Mr. Speaker. It is very important that we spend a great deal of time looking into what is best for our children.

I know the minister has children himself who are in the school system, and I know that he believes very strongly about the education of our children. I think we all do in this House. It is just a question of whether or not we are getting the results we want, and if we do not get the results we want, then we should not be afraid to change a direction in policy to make sure that there is a guarantee that every child in Grade 3 can read and write and do the arithmetic that is in the testing.

I am sure the minister wants that, but I encourage him to look at ways of making sure that we improve on these results because these results are abysmal. Until the minister can understand, until the minister can really– [interjection] No, but if the minister could maybe just realize, like come to the realization, Mr. Speaker, that these results are not good from this assessment. If he can come to that realization, which he is having trouble doing right now–he is running around, trying to say that, oh, they are good results and all this kind of stuff.

Well, it is not good, and it has not changed in the last four years. As a matter of fact, it has gotten worse in the last four years since I asked these questions before. * (14:50) So, again, Mr. Speaker, I encourage the Minister of Education, who, I know, does care about children in Manitoba, does care that they do succeed within our school system, I encourage him and challenge him to do better for our children. I do not think they need to be worse off than they were four years ago, seven years ago.

This Minister of Education can do a lot better as long as he stands up and takes accountability and is responsible for the decisions that he makes. So I thank you very mu ch, Mr. Speaker. I know my time is almost up. I know that I will have further opportunities, hopefully, down the road to be able to address the many concerns that I do have when it comes to education. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, under the sessional order,

section 7, it is incumbent on the House to deal with the business of Supply, and so the House will sit in Supply in the Chamber to consider departmental Estimates and concurrence which is to be completed by 4 p.m. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: We are going to deal with Committee of Supply. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Mr. Chairperson (Conrad Santos): I would like to advise the Committee of Supply of the business before us this afternoon. According to the sessional order, by 4 p.m. today, this committee is to complete consideration of departmental Estimates.

As well, the concurrence motion in the Committee of Supply is to be put by 4 p.m. Immediately following, the concurrence motion in the House must be put. There are a number of resolutions to be considered by the committee this afternoon.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3267 Is it agreed that the Chair begin to call the Estimates in sequence, and the committee to pass or vote on them? [Agreed] Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Chairperson, prior to doing that, I am wondering if it would be appropriate at this point to ask questions of the government. Mr. Chairperson: The procedure is like this. All the departments are in sequence, in order, and the questions can be asked as the department is called.

We will be proceeding in this order: Aboriginal and Northern Affairs; Advanced Education and Training; Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives; Civil Service Commission; Culture, Heritage and Tourism; Education, Citizenship and Youth; Employee Pensions and Other Costs; Health; Healthy Child Manitoba; Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade; Justice; Legislative Assembly; Manitoba Seniors and Healthy Aging Secretariat; Sport; Transportation and Government Services; Water Stewardship; Enabling Appropriations; Other Appropriations; Capital Investment. ABORIGINAL AND NORTHERN AFFAIRS Mr.

Chairperson: Resolution 19.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $l,094,700 for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Executive, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Chairperson, I had a question for the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Lathlin). Mr. Chairperson: The honourable member can ask his questions. Mr.

Gerrard: I am asking my question to the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, and it has to do with the follow-up of the major toxic waste problem in Sherridon. I would like a quick update from the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs as to what the situation is with the toxic waste pile at Sherridon. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, on behalf of the minister we can arrange for inform ation on that to be provided to the member. Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the Minister of Northern Affairs a question.

I would understand that normally in Estimates we have a minister at the table to be able to pose our questions. So if, in fact, he is on his way, I will withhold my question until he is here. I think it is inappropriate to ask a question when the minister is not here. Mr. Chairperson: The questions may be asked, and if someone from the government can answer, they will. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chair, that is not how Estimates are done. That is how Question Period is done, but Estimates is done by– [interjection] Mr. Chair, do I have the floor? Mr. Chairperson: The honourable Member for Russell. Mr.

Derkach: W e l l , M r . C h a i r , I a m n o t t r y i n g t o instil any anger or angst in anyone. You called for the Estimates on Aboriginal Affairs. I did not call that session, Mr. Chair; you did. So all I am asking you is the opportunity to ask the appropriate minister the appropriate questions. Now, if the government wants to slate other ministers ahead of that, that is fine, but I do have questions for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs that I do not want to lose, and asking another minister is just absolutely pointless and senseless. This is not Question Period. This is, in fact, Estimates.

So I am willing to be co-operative, Mr. Chair, but I just need to have some direction. Point of Order An Honourable Member: Point of order. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable Member for Steinbach, on a point of order. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I wonder, Mr. Chairperson, to facilitate, if you could call the Estimates for the Ministry of Advanced Education, and then we can revert to Aboriginal and Northern Affairs at a different time, just to use our time better. Mr. Chairperson: Is there agreement for that suggestion? [Agreed] * (15:00) ADVANCED EDUCATION AND TRAINING Mr.

Chairperson: We are now inviting questions on Advanced Education. Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Chair, I do not want to sort of belabour this process because I

3268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 know that we have a number of sections to go through, but I do have a couple of questions of the minister regarding adult literacy. To begin with, if she is agreeable for us to just bounce throughout her Estimates, I would appreciate it.

I would like to ask the minister a couple of questions on adult literacy training and ask her whether in fact in the whole program of literacy training there has been a change in policy with respect to which communities can apply for literacy programming and how much money is allocated to those communities in comp arison to the previous programs they had running in those communities. Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Well, first, Mr. Chair, I have no objection to global questions if that is the intent of members opposite.

In regard to adult literacy, I think the member knows that there is a depa rtment of adult education and adult literacy, and toge ther there is a grant of about just over $16 million for these two programs. Adult literacy itself receives in excess of about $1.6 million. I can find a list of the various locations where programs are in place if the member wishes. I mean, I just cannot quite count up the numbers but there are obviously in excess of–there are 34 literacy organizations throughout the province.

As to granting, in some cases the grant of a literacy group may appear to be less than it was the previous year because one of the things we are doing is combining literacy with learning. We are working on combining adult literacy and adult learning centres. So, if one were to look at the total package in some of these cases of adult literacy and adult learning, then the member would find that there probably has been no decrease. But, if the member has specific questions about a specific centre, I can either attempt to answer it or we can take it and have staff respond in writing at a later date. Mr.

Derkach: First of all, I would appreciate the list of literacy programs that the minister referred to, and if those can be sent to me that would be fine. But I would like to know from the minister whether the criteria for being eligible for adult literacy have changed and whether or not the minister could also perhaps enclose with that list the criteria for the adult literacy programs. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I will undertake to accommodate the needs of the member opposite. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chair, can the minister tell me whether there are any independent providers of literacy adult education? Ms.

McGifford: Just a point of clarification, I am not sure what the member means by independent providers of literacy. Does he mean not affiliated with a school or a school division or university or a college? Mr. Derkach: Yes. When I am talking about independent providers, I am talking about a company, an individual, an incorporated body that is providing adult literacy programs or adult learning for the department or to Manitobans where the minister is advancing monies to. Ms.

McGifford: Well, I am sure that there are many independent providers of literacy, but if the member is asking, do we provide funding to independent bodies, if he considers, for example, the Shilo Military Family Resource Centre to be an independent body, then the answer would be yes. Mr. Derkach: Well, that is one, Mr. Chair. Are there independent operators, for example, an incorporated family, an incorporated individual who is also providing adult learning or literacy and is being funded by the department? Ms. McGifford: You know, I am having a hard time hearing the member.

I do not think it is particularly noisy in here, for a change, but I am still having a hard time hearing the member. I think he asked me if there were any independent individuals providing literacy and funded by us? Mr. Derkach: Individuals and/or incorporated individuals. Ms. McGifford: I am not aware that we are providing any individuals with literacy funding or incorporated individuals with literacy funding. I can verify that with staff and that information will be returned to the member along with the other information that he has requested. Mr. Derkach: Mr.

Chair, I want to ask the minister whether she is aware whether the adult learning centre on Mayfair is still in operation and is it providing any programs for the department. Ms. McGifford: Could the member tell me the name of the centre on Mayfair? Mr. Derkach: I am sorry, I cannot. Ms. McGifford: I would have to say off the top of my head. I have the names of organizations but not

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3269 their addresses on my sheet. It would seem to me that it is unlikely, but I do not know that for an absolute certainty. Mr. Derkach: If the minister does find that information, I would appreciate it. Can the minister tell me whether Elaine Cowan or John Orlikow is involved in adult learning and literacy programming with the department? Ms. McGifford: I am fairly sure th at neither party is involved. Mr. Derkach: I will take the minister at her word. Turning to, Mr.

Chair, the university side, I know that our universities are providing an outstanding service to our province, and, indeed, the stature and the way our province is viewed from the outside has a lot to do with the quality of education at our universities. Mr. Chair, I want to ask the Minister of Advanced Education whether she has been in consultation with our universities regarding the impact of the budget that was announced to the universities and what operational restructuring they will be doing in order to achieve the budget objectives. Ms.

McGifford: Well, I concur with the member that universities are extremely important to the reputation of our province. I put on the record something that maybe all members of the House do not know, and that is that the University of Manitoba has won more Rhodes Scholarships than any other university in western Canada, so we are very proud of the record. We are very pleased this year to deliver to our universities historic funding, historic in two ways. First of all, it is multiyear funding and, secondly, historic in that the amount of the funding is historic; that is, greater than has ever been delivered before.

So, for the budgetary year that is now under discussion, '06-07, there will be a 5.8 percent increase; for the following year, 5 percent; the year after that, 5 percent. The increased package over the years will be $60 million. I think this is an incredible amount of money and that our institutions are very grateful for it. * (15:10) So the answer to the member's questions is yes, I am in consultation through the Council on Post- Secondary Education with the presidents and, at times, with the board chairs on the funding envelope.

I think it has been very positively received, although we have not heard the University of Winnipeg's budget. I think that their budget will be decided on June 26. Mr. Derkach: Mr.

Chairperson, I ask the Minister of Advanced Education one more time if she knows what the impact of the budget announcement and the fact that universities ha d to increase the fees to foreign students, along with the hundred-dollar fee increase to all students, in order to be able to meet their obligations, whether or not she has had any concern about some of the operational challenges that the universities are going to be facing as a result of not this year's funding necessarily, but indeed the years of lack of funding that these universities had as a result of the tuition freeze and government not shoring up the funding to universities as it should have, given the tuition freeze.

Ms. McGifford: Well, the funding that I worry about is the funding of the nineties which set our universities back about a generation, and the funding both from members opposite whilst they were in government and from the Liberal Party, who in 1995 cut transfer payments and seriously damaged the capacities of our universities to operate. I am very pleased this year to report that there was a 5.8 increase.

Now, the member asks about tuition and points out that the University of Manitoba–because, as I said, the University of Winnipeg has not yet completed its budget, but let us take the University of Manitoba–has exercised its duly legislated right to charge some additional other fees. The other fees for this year are a hundred dollars. The president of the un iversity very carefully delineated the usage of those fees. They are for academic purposes, for library, for example, and I know the member will be interested to know that library costs are escalating at an incredible rate.

The president shared some information with me which, although I have an academic background, Mr. Chairperson, I found absolutely staggering. She reported the cost of one journal as having increased 2,500 percent. So there are challenges within the university. It is essential that our students have books. Our students have the third lowest tuition in the country. The average tuition in Manitoba is between $2,700 and $3,000. Our sister provinces to the west, Saskatchewan is about $4,300, $4,400. In Ontario, it is about $4,500, so our students have the benefit of a

3270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 relatively inexpensive education. So we believe that this $100 is reasonable, and we expect, Mr. Chairperson, the universities to exercise their right to levy other fees in a reasonable, explainable–to be able to do this very clearly, and I think that they did that. Now, Mr. Chairperson, the member is also concerned with international students' fees, and, of course, international students' fees are a concern. It is important to attract as many international students as possible to Manitoba, and for a whole host of reasons.

But the ability to levy international fees is the responsibility of the university. I do want to point out that, even with the increases proposed by the University of Manitoba, we still have amongst the cheapest international fees in the country. I think they are still the cheapest in western Canada plus the University of Manitoba has hired an international students' officer, and the st udents are paying for that out of their fees. They have also created a number of bursaries and scholarships which are given back to the most needy of international students.

Because of an arrangement made between the Department of Labour and Immigration and their federal counterpart, international students have the right to work 20 weeks off campus and subsidize their financial resources in that way. By the way, I think that Manitoba has created the template for that program, and it is now available across the country. So, of course, I share the member's concern with increases in international students' fees, particularly, but I think there are some circumstances of which he may not have been aware and I hope I have given him that information. Mr. Derkach: Mr.

Chair, I know a few things, and one of them is that never in the history of our province have we seen the kind of generosity from the federal government as we are seeing in the last few years with regard to transfer payments for education and medical health. Mr. Chair, the issue of funding our universities should not be an issue with regard to how much money we are affording them because we have never seen this kind of generosity from federal government in terms of transfer payments.

On the other hand, it does say one thing, and that is that we are rapidly becoming one of the least-have provinces, if you like, in western Canada, and so we rely more heavily on transfer payments, and that is not a good thing. No matter who you talk to, whether it is in private life or in business world, people tell you that it is a sad case when our province has to rely on transfer payments for that huge portion of its budget. Having said that, Mr.

Chai r, I read with interest the news release from the University of Manitoba, the Faculty Association and the students' association, and in those news releases it was quite evident that even though the funding this year was up significantly from previous years, that it did not come close to meeting the needs of the university because of the history of the past five or six years when student fees were frozen and when the government did not come through with the funding that would have normally come through student fee increases.

So today, I understand the University of Manitoba is being faced with, perhaps, making reduction in sessional lecturers, making reductions in staff and in that way reducing the resources that students have. I personally believe this is not the right way to go at a university, but when they have no choice, Mr. Chair, because of what government does to them, they have to move in that direction. I guess my bottom line question is that the minister, I think, has an obligation to sit down with the university and take a look at the impact her budget is having on the university.

Last year, after the university did come through with the impacts, the minister did forward greater sums of resources to the university. I am wondering whether or not she is going to be considering that this year, given that, once again, the university is in the dilemma that it sees itself in. Ms. McGifford: The member has raised a number of points for me to address. I am told by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) that the federal transfer payment for post-secondary education is down to 7 percent, which, I think, is a historical low.

The federal government may or may not be generous with its transfer payments, but that is not what we are talking about right now. We are talking about funds that are designated for post-secondary education. Mr. Chair, by anybody's accounting, they are pretty dismal. So I wanted to just put that on the record.

The member may also be interested in knowing, I realize he said that Manitoba is increasingly dependent on transfer payments and wants to create this picture of woe and wildness but, indeed, the provinces which have received the greatest increases in transfer payments in recent history are Alberta and Ontario because of their taxation policies. So I thought that the member might like to know that.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3271 As for his concern about my sitting down with the University of Manitoba, I assure him I will do that. I respect his advice and thank you for it. * (15:20) Mr. Derkach: In the essence of saving time, Mr. Chairperson, I want to move to one other area that I have a couple of questions on, and that is the Hydro Northern Training Initiative. I would like to ask the minister who the managerial position is that is identified in the document. Ms. McGifford: I do not know which document the member is referring to. Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr.

Chairperson, we are talking about the Estimates, and I am referring to the Estimates document on page 67 when it says Salaries and Employee Benefits, Managerial, one position at $93,000. I am asking the question: Who is the manager in that Hydro Northern Training Initiative? Ms. McGifford: The person responsible, the overall responsibility for training, the individual, and I do apologize to the member. I came in such a hurry from another meeting that I do not have my Estimates book with me, but the person who is responsible for training as the senior executive director is Mr. Bob Knight.

The person who is directly responsible for Hydro is Jenny Styrchak. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairperson, how many students or adults are enrolled in the programs for Hydro northern training programs at the present time? Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chairperson, I believe I will have to get that information for the member and have it sent along with the other information he has been requesting. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairperson, I will conclude my questions at this time because I believe we have other departments that want to come forward and perhaps others have other questions. So, Mr. Chair, I conclude my questions. Thank you. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I just have a single question for the minister. The minister, as we know, has frozen tuition for certain tuition fees but left other tuition fees like that for the Faculty of Law go up huge amounts. My question is: Since this tuition freeze is creating significant problems for the funding of universities, how long is it the intention of the minister to keep the tui tion freeze on the tuitions where she has implemented the freeze? Ms. McGifford: Well, I thank the member for his question.

I have two daughters in Law so I know that–not daughters-in-law but daughters studying law–and I know that tuition has gone up. I still know that it is amongst the lowest in the country. I know, as well, that individuals who graduate from Law can expect to earn a respectable income, and I know as well that we have a great bursary and scholarship program. I know as well that the law school has a great bursary and scholarship program. It had a million dollars extended to the law school by Mr. Jim Pitblado.

When he recognized there was some willingness on the part of this government to allow the law school to charge a little bit more, he felt moved to endow the school with a million dollars. So I think that Harvey Secter has done an absolutely fabulous job. Kids are not turned away, or adults turned aw ay, because they cannot afford law school. As for the tuition freeze, when is it going to end, I think the member has heard the Premier (Mr. Doer) say that the tuition freeze will not last forever. I would never think of violating the budgetary process, especially with the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) in the House today, in presupposing what next year's budget might bring, Mr. Chairperson. Mr. Chairperson: No more questions? Does the committee want to pass the resolutions now on Advanced Education? What is the will of the committee? Some Honourable Members: Pass. An Honourable Member: Let us move on to the next one for questioning. Mr. Chairperson: What is the next department of government that the opposition wish to ask questions on? An Honourable Member: Health. Mr. Chairperson: Is that agreeable? [Agreed] HEALTH Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): We know that the government has put up a list of some 19 ministers, and we have presumed that those ministers would be available for questioning because the government knew that this all had to be through by

3272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 four o'clock, and so I am waiting for the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) because I would like to– Anyway, let me ask a ques tion to the Minister of Health. We are all too aware of the crisis situation in the emergency rooms in Winnipeg, and I would have thought that the Minister of Health would be here to be able to, you know, respond to this, knowing that there is a crisis at the moment and that there are a lot of slots which are not yet filled.

So I would like to know, except for the insufficient and inadequate approach that the government has taken so far, what the Minister of Health is going to do to ensure that the graduates of the residency program are more likely to stay here than ha s been in the past, recently, when most of them have gone elsewhere. Point of Order Mr. Chairperson: The Member for Inkster, on a point of order? Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Yes. Mr. Chairperson, I am wondering if it might be more appropriate for us to recess.

If I look, you know, at the list of departments that actually have to be questioned, whether it is Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Agriculture, our Civil Service, Education, Citizenship, Health, Healthy Child Manitoba, Intergovernmental Affairs, Justice, our seniors, Transportation and Government Services, none of those ministers are actually here to be able to answer– Mr. Chairperson: For the information of the Member for Inkster, Civil Service is here. Mr. Lamoureux: Civil Service is here, and Education, apparently. So I guess given that we do have the two of the ministers here, Mr.

Chairperson, I guess we could forge ahead, but I think it would be good to be able to have some questions on Health. Maybe if the government could ask for the Minister of Health to come so that we can pose some questions, I think that would be accommodating for the opposition. Mr. Chairperson: What is the will of this committee? An Honourable Member: Call the minister. Mr. Chairperson: The floor is open for questions. * * * * (15:30) Mr. Gerrard: I will repeat the question that I have posed so that the Minister of Health, now that he is here, can answer.

Clearly, one of the problems has been that a significant number of the newly graduating residents in emergency medicine are not staying in Manitoba. Of the six graduates in the last two years, only one is still here. Although it may be better this year, the question is, what kind of an approach is the minister taking to ensure that there is better retention rates and that more of the graduates of the emergency medicine residency program stay in Manitoba? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): First of all, Mr.

Chairperson, I think there is an agreement that has been in place in the House for some time that ministers are given the courtesy of a little notice for concurrence, so rather than making caustic comments about availability, maybe following the rules would be an option which is to give appropriate notice for concurrence. I am delighted to come and answer any questions that the member asks, but when I am in the middle of a phone call with the head of CancerCare Manitoba, maybe it is not just as convenient to say, I am sorry, I have something more important to do.

I have to go and answer a question in the Legislature for which I was given no notice. So I would just like the member to just reflect a bit on his comments about availability in terms of ministry. In terms of retention, Mr. Chair, there are five residency slots, and, as the member knows, there are five residency slots for the current crop coming in this year. As the member knows, we have the same number of emergency positions serving in our emergency rooms as we had six years ago. There were 71 six years ago. There are 70 today, one less.

Yes, we have a vacancy rate just like all other ERs across the country, so we have changed our remuneration patterns. We have put in place extended practice nurses. We have put in place reassessment nurses. We have tried to do everything we can to take the load off emergency room physicians, particularly the specialists so that we can use their skills most appropriately, because, obviously, it is a waste of their time and talent to be looking after bruises and scrapes and bumps and lumps as opposed to seriou s trauma, resuscitations, heart attacks, serious medical issues.

So, in terms of how do you retain, well, you put in place good research opportunities. You put in

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3273 place supports. You put in place adequate salaries, and we believe that we are doing all of those things. We believe that on balance across the country we do find we are not better than the average, we are not worse than the average. There are 500 specialists recognized in the country. We have 19 of them.

We have slightly less than 4 percent of the population and we have slightly less than 4 percent of the emergency medicine specialists in addition to the other roughly 50 doctors who provide full or part equivalent-full-time positions in our general community and tertiary hospitals across Manitoba. Mr. Gerrard: I noticed that the Minister of Health talked about research opportunities, and of the emergency physician specialists, I think that if I remember right there are something like 19 practising in Manitoba at the moment.

How many are involved in research and can the Minister of Health tell us more about the research opportunities available? Mr. Sale: I would have to get information about how many of the 19 have active research programs underway, Mr. Chair, and if the member wants that information, then we will undertake to get it for him. In terms of the research programs that are underway in Manitoba, I think the member knows probably as well as I do that we have increased our commitment to research by some 60 percent already. Our goal is to double it over a period ending in 2009- 2010, March 2010.

We have increased support under the Canadian Foundation for Innovation and under CIHR matching grants. I think that he will reflect on superb researchers like Sabine Mai, Jeff Hickes, Frank Plummer, any number of others–Allan Ronald could be added to that list, of course–any number of people who have come here because we offer excellent research opportunities in a wide ra nge of subject areas. But I will inquire of my department for information about people who are emergency medicine specialists who have current research underway. Point of Order An Honourable Member: Point of order. Mr.

Chairperson: Point of order being raised. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Chairperson, I wonder if you could canvass the committee to see–we are runni ng short of time–if we could begin to move the Health appropriations and then revert to alphabetical order of departments of the Legislature to move appropriations. Mr. Chairperson: Is that agreed? [Agreed] * * * Mr. Chairperson: Resolution 21.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $19,001,300 for Health, Corporate and Provincial Program Support, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 21.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $10,539,000 for Health, He alth Workforc e, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $10,505,100 for Health, Regional Affairs, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $76,204,300 for Health, Healthy Living and Health Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007.

Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $3,374,246,500 for Health, Health Services Insurance Fund, for the fis cal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $13,480,000 for Health, Addictions Foundation of Manitoba, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 21.8: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $88,560,800 for Health, Capital Funding, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. * (15:40)

3274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 Resolution 21.9: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $4,364,500 for Health, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,999,300 for Health, Administration, Finance and Accountability, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Prior to voting on the Minister's Salary, there are a few comments I would like to put on the record. I would like to start out by referencing the quarter-million-dollar propaganda campaign that the NDP government is trying to put out there in order to convince the public that health care is in a rosy state in this province. When I look through their propaganda piece and I see some of their claims to fame, it is interesting how selective they were with all of their numbers.

Rather than painting a true and direct picture of what is happening in Manitoba, we see a lot of very selective views of numbers and some very disconcerting information being put forward. The government tries to indicate, and I note that they actually say that they are improving–let me find exactly where–oh, they ar e talking about wait time reduction and progress to date and actually indicating that related to diagnostic tests they are actually making improvements, when in fact the waits for MRIs are 11 weeks today, which is worse than 1999. Compared to the promise the Premier (Mr.

Doer) made in 1999 to slash it to eight weeks, it is now at 11 weeks and those numbers are higher than they were in 1999. The CT scan waits are triple what they were from 1999. They are at 12 weeks right now and considering the Premier promised to slash it to two weeks, it is strange that the government does not put this in their propaganda piece. Since the government is out there talking about hips and knees after we brought up the questions, we have heard from a number of very, very angry people that have been waiting a year or two years for hip or knee surgery.

In fact I got an e-mail this morning from one of them; I got a phone call from somebody else last week. Mr. Chairperson, there is some real anger out there in terms of the people that are waiting for hips and knees and feel that the government is not being very straightforward or forthcoming with their information, especially when they see the ads on TV. They are very, very angry at this Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) and this Doer government for these propaganda ads.

No mention in the propaganda piece about the number of patients waiting for cataract surgery; they do not mention that the waiting list is long and there are thousands of people on that list. The Pain Clinic, are averaging three years for chronic pain. I do not see that anywhere in here, and yet what the government has the gall to do in this piece is to indicate, a small line, Pain Management: to reduce the wait time for pain management, $5.6 million is being invested over four years. No mention as in the rest of the propaganda piece as to any success, and that is because is there is not any success in that area.

In fact, the waiting times for patients with chronic pain are absolutely, totally unacceptable. An average wait of three years is just something that I do not think anybody in this province should accept. On top of all of that, what we have is a Premier standing in this House the other day and talking about there being zero patients in hallways. Well, have a lot of patients ever, ever surfaced in the last few weeks, after the Premier stood in the House and said there are zero patients in the hallways. Well, what an insult. There are patients after patients after patients in the hallways.

This government chooses to fudge how they count patients so that they disregard all the patients that are in the hallways if those patients have not been admitted. They disregard those patients if they are surgical patients or psych patients, and they are very, very manipulative and painting a much rosier picture than what is actually happening in our ERs. Nurses are being forced to fudge numbers, and it is insulting those front-line health care professionals to have to put forward the information they do every morning. You wonder why morale is bad in our ERs.

Making nurses have to be dishonest in their number counting just so that the NDP can try to look good on the biggest promise and the worst failure they have had since they formed government, and that is to eliminate hallway medicine in six months with $15 million. It has not been eliminated; it has just been manipulated; and it has become nothing more than pure politics. Nurses have been put in a com- promising position because of this government's manipulation of those numbers. So not only does hallway medicine still exist out there, but is that in the propaganda piece? I did not see that anywhere in

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3275 the propaganda piece. It is totally ignored, yet they spend a quarter million dollars trying to paint a rosier picture when we have gone from a 2003 ER crisis to a 2006 ER crisis. I would like to indicate if this government and this Premier (Mr. Doer) and this Health Minister had done their jobs in 2006 after Dorothy Madden died and after several moms had miscarried in our ERs, if they had done what they should have done back then, we might not be in a position today where we see a government compromising safe patient care in our ERs.

Then, for the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) to stand in here, week after week, saying everything was fine, painting a rosy picture of what is happening in our ERs is unconscionable. What gall to have a Minister of Heal th stand in here and talk like he has talked, or have the Premier say what he is saying, when what is happening in our ERs is going from a crisis to a disaster, and if they do not get their act together, we are going to see a catastrophe. How many more Dorothy Maddens do we have to have before this government can get its act together, stop mismanaging health care and do what they should be doing?

Instead, they are so busy spinning their rhetoric. I will give you an example of rhetoric. The Minister of Health today stands in this House and rather than answer a ques tion very directly when asked about only 13 doctors graduating from the ER speciality program, and as of this month, only four of them staying in Manitoba, the rest have left, and we have one more leaving, which is a total of 70 percent of these ER speciality grads leaving. When the minister was asked that question today as it relates to our whole ER crisis, how does he answer the question?

He answers it based on a whole different category of ER doctors. He does not even give a straight answer, and we have got a crisis in this city with our community ERs, and what do we have? A minister trying to protect his own skin in here, rather than being direct with the public, direct with the front-line workers, direct with the patients and, instead, he spins his rhetoric in this House, and he talks about general practitioners, family doctors that are graduating and working in our ERs, rather than in our dramatic loss of our ER specialists.

That just shows you where this government is at in terms of a lack of transparency and accountability in health care. So we have a propaganda piece that is put out there, that hardly, hardly even comes close to reflecting what is happening in our ER situation. Instead, we get a lot of damage control from this government. We get a minister that is playing fast and loose, not only with his answers here, but with his answers in Estimates, as well.

I have spent a considerable amount of time recently, looking over the comments that this Minister of Health has been making on a number of questions and in a number of his statements. I have to tell you, it is extremely disconcerting, and I am appalled at the number of times the minister actually puts incorrect information on the record. And it goes on and on and on.

I have got pages and pages of highlighted comments where the information is actually incorrect that the Minister of Health has put forward. * (15:50) How can you run a Department of Health with a Minister of Health who is not being straightforward, is not being direct and spends far more time slip- sliding around with his answers, playing fast and loose with numbers, rather than in trying to put forward direct information, straightforward informa- tion, information that is not spun into some rhetoric about our health care system? Mr.

Chairperson, I think the people of this province deserve a lot better than what we are getting from this Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) and this NDP government. There is no accountability from this Minister of Health and there definitely is an absolute lack of transparency. No wonder the Auditor slammed this government for their lack of efficiencies in Pharmacare, and that was just one area. I do not think we are going to see any improvements until we see a government that is willing to be forthright with the people of this province.

Our health care system is failing people, and patient safety is at risk, and this minister can do nothing but put forward rhetoric. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Chairperson, very briefly, there are huge problems, as we ar e all aware, that we are hearing day by day in the health care system. This minister has engaged in a huge advertising campaign rather than being able to address things properly. Therefore, as a result of this, I would move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster, THAT the Minister of Health's salary be reduced to $1, the price for which Portage Place was recently sold.

3276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 12, 2006 Motion presented. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is in order. Any debate on this motion? If not, is the House ready for the question then? Mrs. Driedger: I would certainly like to indicate that we should probably be looking at the Minister's Salary being dropped down to zero which would be equal to what the Premier (Mr. Doer) is saying are the number of patients in the hallways because we know that is false. Patients are certainly phoning us. Families are phoning us. They are phoning the media.

They are absolutely disgusted with the comments that the Premier made that there are zero patients in our ER hallways. There are much more than zero patients, but that is what this Minister of Health should probably be getting in terms of his salary to match his Premier's rhetoric. But, knowing that we probably have to give the minister some salary fo r his job, then I guess we should at least then give him a dollar. Mr. Chairperson: Question being asked, shall the motion pass? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. Voice Vote Mr. Chairperson: All those in favour of the motion, say yea.

Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr. Chairperson: Those who are opposed to the motion, say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Chairperson: In the opinion of the Chair, the Nays have it. Formal Vote Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr. Chairperson, I understand it only takes two to call for a recorded vote, so I would request a recorded vote at this time. Mr. Chairperson: Since a recorded vote has been requested, call in the members. The honourable Member for River Heights (Mr.

Gerrard), seconded by th e honourable Member for Inkster (Mr Lamoureux), moved that the Minister of Health's salary be reduced to $1, the price at which Portage Place was recently sold. This motion having been defeated in a voice vote, a recorded vote has been requested. A COUNT-OUT VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: Yeas 20, Nays 30. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is accordingly defeated. * * * Mr.

Chairperson: The Chair would like to remind the honourable members that, according to the sessional order adopted on June 6, 2005, by 4 p.m., the consideration of all departmental Estimates in the Committee of Supply must be concluded, and that the concurrence motion in the Committee of Supply and the concurrence motion in the House must be put. * (16:10) Shall the Chair continue calling the resolutions? [Agreed] Resolution 21.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,999,300 for Health, Administration, Finance and Accountability, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007.

Resolution agreed to. ABORIGINAL AND NORTHERN AFFAIRS Mr. Chairperson: Resolution 19.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $22,897,000 for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Operations, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 19.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,821,900 for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Capital Grants, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 19.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $170,600 for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

June 12, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3277 For this department, we have already passed Resolution 19.1. ADVANCED EDUCATION AND TRAINING Mr. Chairperson: Next is Advanced Education and Training. Resolution 44.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,176,600 for Advanced Education and Training, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 44.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $414,328,000 for Advanced Education and Training, Support for Universities and Colleges, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 44.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $58,300,300 for Advanced Education and Training, Manitoba Student Aid, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 44.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $106,289,800 for Advanced Education and Training, Training and Continuing Education, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 44.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $14,211,700 for Advanced Education and Training, Capital Grants, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 44.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,110,800 for Advanced Education and Training, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. AGRICULTURE, FOOD AND RURAL INITIATIVES Mr. Chairperson: Resolution 3.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $7,566,600 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Policy and Management, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 3.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $112,426,000 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Risk Management, Credit and Income Support Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 3.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $20,378,900 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Agri-Indust ry Development and Innovation, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2007. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 3.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $40,201,000 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Agri-Food and Rural Development, for the fi

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-4-88
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 4th hansardpdf 88.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	a90d76d3cdb61dc315a350f8edba48416c92d541

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).