Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements — 17 December 2012 (47th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLVII No. 70)
2012-12-17
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 17, 2012
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLVII No. 70
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Before we start today's proceedings I want to acknowledge a special guest
that we have in the gallery today. Today we are joined by Jeremy Mueller. In
June of this year Jeremy was named the Special Olympics Provincial Male Athlete
of the Year and in October was named the Special Olympics Canadian Male Athlete
of the Year.
Jeremy has already competed provincially, nationally and at world levels, and
in January of 2013 will be going to South Korea to compete in the Special
Olympics World Games in South Korea. He is joined here today by his mother,
Velma.
Jeremy, welcome to our gallery.
Congratulations!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Jeremy, we all wish you well in your competition in January.
Enjoy South Korea.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today we have members' statements from the Member for the
District of The Straits White Bay North; the Member for the District of
MR. BENNETT: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. Barbe, on a point of order.
MR. BENNETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on Thursday when we were here, the Member
for Burin Placentia West made a statement that I need to raise with you.
On the eleventh he made a similar statement and you asked him to withdraw it
because the language was unparliamentary, and on the thirteenth he made another
similar statement. The statement was, "Mr. Speaker, it is quite irresponsible
for the member, I will say this, who made a statement just a couple of days that
there were amendments in reference to the Schools Act and said there were
changes. Mr. Speaker, people have asked me: Have there been changes made? Mr.
Speaker, that is now, I have to get this right factually incorrect. This is
simply factually incorrect. It is irresponsible of the member to be putting
incorrect information out there, Mr. Speaker. The parents, the students, and the
trustees deserve better than what the hon. member is" and no more can be heard.
Mr. Speaker, the issue of calling something factually incorrect, which you
called him to task two days earlier, so he tried to skirt around the issue. The
information that he is putting before this House is not accurate. I have never
referenced the Schools Act in respect to this matter or in any other area.
If, in fact, he is referring to the practice of schools boards voting in
secret by ballot, in fact that authority for them to do that comes by way of
their constitution and their bylaws. Four of the five school boards have adopted
bylaws, and the minister has signed off on the bylaws. They have signed off on
the bylaws which say they are permitted to have a secret ballot. Eastern, Nova
Central, and the French School Board all have these bylaws signed by the
minister. The Western School District has no such bylaws. Their bylaws are under
review; however, they claim authority there from relying on their constitution
and Robert's Rules of Order. The Labrador School District can use the practice
but in very limited circumstances.
Mr. Speaker, my point of order is, what the minister is saying here being
attributed to me is not accurate and furthermore that his couching the words
that he is using is not making it more or less parliamentary than he tried two
days earlier when he was taken to task by yourself.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I have stood in this House now for nine years
and I have said coming into this job, I came into it with my integrity and I am
going to leave it with my integrity. I have taken the member to task on a couple
of occasions and I will be careful how I couch this because he has built up
hope in the people where the Schools Act and the school board's bylaws will not
allow me, as minister, to do things that he has indicated. Now I cannot say the
terminology that I want to use, Mr. Speaker, but I can tell you one thing, he
has put people who are on a very emotional track about a school closing and he
has put them in a situation where there is false hope.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot, as a human being, just accept that. There have been no
amendments to the bylaws. I, as minister, do not have the authority to overturn.
The policies and the bylaws that are in place now with the school boards were in
place even previous to 2003, Mr. Speaker. I do not know how to couch that any
other way than to say that I will leave it at this: he has provided false hope
where there is not hope, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker seeks some clarification. I want to make sure I
understand the point of order being raised.
If the Member for St. Barbe could clarify, because there are two issues you
have raised. One with respect to suggesting that there was unparliamentary
language being used. The second point you are raising is with respect to
comments that are attributed to you that you are suggesting you had not made.
Are these the two points that you are raising with respect to your point of
order?
MR. BENNETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, you are absolutely correct.
If, in fact, it is demonstrated that I have made those comments then clearly
I would withdraw and apologize, and if in fact the other member is unable to
demonstrate that I have said those comments then he ought to do likewise.
MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker will review the record of Hansard for the days
in question and provide a ruling at a future time for the House.
Statements by Members.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: I listed off those who have members' statements for the day.
I will acknowledge the hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North as
the first member.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, people who make a difference often do not
realize how much they give.
Order of Newfoundland recipient nurse Janet Cox dedicated forty years to
ground-breaking research on hereditary colon cancer.
In my district, many deserving people received Queen's Diamond Jubilee
Medals.
Joan Simmonds, with the French Shore Historical Society, helped coordinate
the 20,000 hours of work that went into making an incredible historic tapestry
now on display in Conche. Bern Bromley, previous owner and editor for the
Northern Pen , is a former mayor who volunteers with many organizations.
This weekend, during their annual tree lighting service, the Town of Englee
presented Diamond Jubilee Medals to three residents who have together
volunteered almost 100 years with their town. The three retired teachers: Edgar
Fillier, Robert Keefe, and Rudy Porter are well known for their commitment to
and leadership in the town. Mr. Porter is the Mayor of Englee, and was a loud
voice in the fight for the demolition of the Englee fish plant.
It goes to show how many dedicated people are around us all each day. I ask
all hon. members to join me in congratulating these six good citizens who have
done so much to enrich so many lives.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to honour a long-term resident of St. John's East who deservedly
received an Order of Canada this year.
Bernice Morgan is one of the Province's best-known writers. Her first novel,
Random Passage , was a sensation locally and nationally. In that novel,
Bernice wrote about Newfoundland history in a way that was exciting to many
residents of the Province. She wrote from a woman's point of view about the
everyday life of early settlers in the fictional Cape Random.
Her other fiction novels and short stories cemented her reputation as a
writer. She is also an editor, a tireless supporter of other writers, most
particularly as a mentor of new and emerging writers, but also as an
administrator.
She has been on the board of the Provincial Arts Council and the executive of
the Writers' Alliance of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Newfoundland Writers'
Guild, and the Writers' Union of Canada.
Bernice has also had a long involvement with the St. John's Status of Women
Council as well as the St. John's Library Board.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating Bernice
Morgan on her investiture to the Order of Canada.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate
Mr. Sam Alexander on the occasion of his ninety-eighth birthday.
Mr. Alexander currently resides at his home in Cormack in close proximity to
his many family members. Mr. Alexander has had an amazing life that has included
raising eight children, thirteen grandchildren, and six great-grandchildren.
Born in Stephenville on October 13, 1914, Mr. Alexander spent the bulk of his
life working in the forestry business and as owner of a service station in
Cormack. As a young man Mr. Alexander served in World War II for six years in
the 59 th Regiment. It was during his military service that he met his
wife Gwendolyn, whom he married in England in 1945. Upon completion of his
military service, Mr. Alexander and his wife returned to Newfoundland and
Labrador and soon moved to the community of Cormack and started their family.
Unselfish and noble actions are a reflection of a great life and to this, Mr.
Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to stand with me and congratulate
Mr. Sam Alexander on the occasion of his ninety-eighth birthday.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate a very special person in my district, Jeremy
Mueller. Jeremy demonstrates the true spirit of a Special Olympic athlete,
always encouraging and cheering other athletes whether he is racing with them or
against them.
This year he won four gold medals in snowshoeing at the 2012 Special Olympics
Canadian Winter Games in Alberta. Jeremy's performance earned him a spot on the
Special Olympics Canadian National Team, which will be competing in 2013 at the
World Games in South Korea.
In June, Jeremy was named as provincial Special Olympics Male Athlete of the
Year. In November, he was named and honoured to be the Special Olympics Canadian
Male Athlete of the Year.
Jeremy is a highly trained athlete who works hard to excel in sport. In 1998,
Jeremy competed in the national Summer Games where he won two silver medals in
swimming.
I am sure Jeremy would like me to recognize those who helped him: his family
especially his mom his coaches, and many volunteers with the Special
Olympics.
I ask all hon. members to join with me in wishing Jeremy good luck in South
Korea. Have fun, and we know you will do well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PEACH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House to recognize an outstanding lady in my district for
dedicating thirty-four years of her time to volunteering and organizing the
Lions Club Annual Carol Sing at Arnold's Cove. This event is one of the largest
community fundraisers for the Children's Wish Foundation.
I had the great privilege of attending the thirty-fourth Carol Sing on
December 10 and I was joined by my colleague for Mount Pearl North. Both of us
were very impressed that communities came together and raised over $22,000 for
the Children's Wish Foundation.
On that night, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Flo Peach was awarded the Queen's Diamond
Jubilee award and I want to take this opportunity to congratulate her on winning
this award. Also, I want to congratulate the Arnold's Cove Lions Club for being
the sponsor of this great fundraiser.
I ask that all members join me in saying thank you for your years of service
to the Children's Wish Foundation.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise with sadness today to acknowledge the passing of Hazel
McIsaac and to offer sincere condolences to her loved ones.
Hazel McIsaac was the first woman to become a Member of the House of Assembly
post-Confederation. She was a true trailblazer in Newfoundland and Labrador's
political history and helped pave the way for women wishing to enter political
life.
Born in Robinsons in 1933, Ms McIsaac was educated at the Sisters of Mercy
Convent Boarding School in St. George's. Over the years, she worked at Harmon
Air Force Base in Stephenville and managed two local businesses. She was later
appointed as town clerk in St. George's, where she was the first woman to ever
hold that position.
In 1975, Ms McIsaac set her sights on provincial politics and on September 16
was elected to represent the Liberal Party in District of St. George's as a
Member of the House of Assembly. During her time in office, she was devoted to
environmental and social issues. In 1980, Ms McIsaac returned to her role as
town clerk in St. George's, where she was later elected as mayor.
Mr. Speaker, she was devoted to her community, contributing to the library
board, local development associations, parks and recreation committees, Women's
Institute seminars, and in the 1980s opened her home as a community residence
for young offenders.
Mr. Speaker, as a tribute to her contribution to the betterment of our
society as a strong and influential woman in Newfoundland and Labrador politics,
the MV Hazel McIsaac ferry was named in her honour. Her legacy will now
be represented in a very tangible way, long into the future.
I had the pleasure of meeting Ms McIsaac last year. Mr. Speaker, she served
the people of this Province admirably and holds an important place in the
history of our Province.
On behalf of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, I offer my deepest
sympathies to her loved ones.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to thank the Premier for the advance copy of the statement. I,
too, would like to join the family and all members of this House in paying
tribute to the life and the legacy of Hazel McIsaac who, as the Premier said,
was the first elected woman to the House of Assembly.
You can imagine in 1975 coming into the House of Assembly, and just think as
we look back and reflect on the people who were actually sitting in those seats
on that day. All of us, I know, would have vivid memories of a lot of those MHAs
and the role that they played in our history. Ms McIsaac is certainly deserving
of that recognition as well. At the time, in 1975, she was the only woman
elected in the House of Assembly, and certainly she became a role model to all
the women who followed in her footsteps.
Mr. Speaker, one thing I did notice, because I did read the obituary in the
newspaper over the weekend and the statement talks about her concerns for
environmental and social issues, but one thing that stood out to me was that the
obituary also made mention of thinking about the foster children that she had
cared for over her years. I think this is important and really a recognition of
truly the type of individual that Ms McIsaac was. In 2004, she was the recipient
of the Provincial Woman of the Year Award, and indeed, her legacy, as the naming
of the provincial ferry, MV Hazel McIsaac , is certainly a tribute to her,
I am sure.
I join all members in this House today in paying tribute to Ms McIsaac; her
memory will live on for a long time amongst all those people who followed her.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, thank the Premier for an advance copy of her statement. I, too, would
like to express my condolences to the family and friends of Hazel McIsaac. I was
lucky enough to get to meet her once as well.
She truly was a groundbreaking figure in the history of women in public life
in Newfoundland and Labrador. Hazel McIsaac was in politics for all the right
reasons, in her dedication to community economic development and environmental
protection.
After she left politics, Ms McIsaac carried on her contribution to her
community, both in her work with organizations, and her personal commitment to
helping the most vulnerable in our society rebuild their lives.
In her commitment to her community, Hazel McIsaac was a role model for all of
us, both women and men, in this House. May her spirit live on.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the Member for St. John's South have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express our deepest sorrow and to offer our
heartfelt sympathies to the families, friends, and colleagues of those
tragically killed Friday at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut.
We have all seen the news coverage and are shocked and horrified by what has
transpired.
Mr. Speaker, twenty young children and six adults were killed in this
unspeakable act of violence. I know that I have been personally haunted this
weekend with the thought of exactly what might have occurred in that classroom
and in that school.
In Newfoundland and Labrador we have worked and are working to ensure our
children go to a school each day knowing they are entering a safe and caring
learning environment.
Mr. Speaker, I encourage parents and educators to reinforce that message
today and every day. No child should ever fear they will be subjected to
harassment, intimidation, or violence of any kind inside or outside of school.
What occurred in Connecticut on Friday was, as one American news anchor said,
"a horror beyond words". I know that all members of this hon. House will join me
in sending the thoughts and prayers of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador
to the people of Newtown, Connecticut to let them know that we are thinking of
them at this time of unimaginable pain and grief.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask, if you would, to call for just a minute of silence
to remember those.
MR. SPEAKER: We will pause for a moment of silence.
[Moment of silence observed]
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.
The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for the advance copy of
his statement.
Mr. Speaker, the tragic death of any child knows no boundaries, so what
happens to one child, no matter where in this world, touches our Province, our
communities, our homes, and our hearts.
What happened in Connecticut this past week will forever be etched in our
hearts and souls and our psyche. We know that no amount of words can heal the
deep anguish and the grief that will be with these families in their nation for
a long time to come. Still we all share the tears and we send our inadequate
words to Newtown from all of us here in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY: Thanks to the minister for the advance copy of his statement.
We were all shocked and saddened to learn of the senseless and tragic school
shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut last week.
Those of us who are fathers and mothers, grandmothers and grandfathers,
uncles and aunts were immediately drawn to think of our own little ones. Schools
should be safe environments where our students can learn and grow without fear.
Our caucus joins all members of the House in expressing our condolences to
the families in Connecticut. I hope we can all work together in this House of
Assembly to make our own schools here in Newfoundland and Labrador as safe as
they can be.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Member for St. John's South have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: By leave, the Member for St. John's South.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural
Development.
MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in this hon. House
to highlight an initiative that promotes and engages youth in innovative
activities.
Launched earlier today, the provincial government's Youth Innovation Call for
Proposals has the goal of creating awareness among youth of the tremendous
career opportunities that exist in Newfoundland and Labrador and the role
innovation plays in harnessing them.
For each project funded through this initiative, the provincial government
will contribute up to 80 per cent of total project costs to a maximum of
$20,000. Those eligible to apply include not-for-profit organizations, schools
in the kindergarten to Grade 12 system, post-secondary educational institutions,
youth organizations, and industry organizations.
Since the initial call for proposals in 2009, the provincial government has
invested close to $1.4 million in eighty activities that support youth
innovation. These activities capture the creativity and volume of innovative
thinking that is prevalent in communities and regions throughout Newfoundland
and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, most importantly, these initiatives hold the potential to spark
the imaginations of youth and build skills today that can benefit future
entrepreneurs and a stronger workforce.
Examples of some of the projects supported to date include support for the
Town of Belleoram to host a conference for youth from the Coast of Bays region
about the importance of science, engineering, and technology in advancing the
local aquaculture industry.
In Pollard's Point we have helped Main River Academy to increase student
awareness of advanced technologies and environmental issues such as wildlife,
water, soils, and forestry throughout the Internet and smart technologies.
That is just a brief snapshot, but the message to youth is the same:
regardless of age or where you live, you can be innovative, you can grow, and
you can succeed.
Mr. Speaker, if previous projects are any indication as to where we as a
Province are headed, I can say without a doubt the future of Newfoundland and
Labrador is in good and capable hands.
I encourage all those eligible to apply to consider the possibilities, be
innovative, and certainly creative. More information and details of the call for
proposals are available on my department's Web site or at one of our
twenty-three offices throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for an advance copy of his
statement. Encouraging youth to become aware and engaged in our career
opportunities is a great initiative. Since a large portion of our youth lives in
our rural regions, they are disadvantaged with fewer services such as high-speed
Internet and cellphone coverage. However, we are well aware that in this
Province and in this government there is a rural decline.
Among the greatest rural development tools were the RED Boards. Earlier this
year the Harper government pulled the rug out from under these boards and with
this government's compliance, all RED Boards were sacrificed. The Government of
Nova Scotia was more proactive as they faced the same challenge. The very next
day they went to work and they put together a taskforce to save their RED
Boards.
Unfortunately, this government was not so proactive on this file with so many
other files. Mr. Speaker, all those youth who would want a future in our rural
regions and communities have been abandoned by this government by leaving out
the RED Boards.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, I too thank the minister for an advance
copy of his statement. I welcome the renewed commitment of investing in our
youth to pursue science and technology projects which fosters a culture of
innovation and creativity. It is good to see that the eligibility is quite broad
to include non-profits, industry associations and municipalities.
Youth are today's leaders as well and we should give them every opportunity
to tap their imagination. I encourage government to continue listening
attentively to what youth are saying and where they would like to see the
opportunities of future career goals, so that government can align its
programming to fit these ever-changing desires.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Member for St. John's South have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No.
MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last night at 10:50 o'clock, the Premier sent out an advisory saying that
there would be a Muskrat Falls announcement at 6:00 o'clock today.
I ask the Premier: Are you going to sanction Muskrat Falls today?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there certainly will be an event at 6:00 o'clock this evening. I
invite the Leader of the Opposition to join us there. I am not in a position at
this point in time, Mr. Speaker, because of the relationship with our partners,
to release any details until later this evening.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I might take the Premier up on her late dinner invite today her invite.
Mr. Speaker, sanctioning Muskrat Falls at this point is irresponsible. All
environmental approvals are not in place, the Aboriginal claims are not settled,
the regulatory process in Nova Scotia is not even started, and the Premier
refuses to deny any regulatory oversight onto this project in our Province. She
has signed a term sheet really on cheesecloth.
I ask the Premier: With so many significant outstanding issues, how could you
possibly sanction Muskrat Falls?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I have said many times inside this House and outside this House, when the
time comes to make the sanctioning decision all that needs to be in order will
be in order, Mr. Speaker, and that remains true today, the same as it was a week
ago.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On Thursday, government announced a deficit of $725 million and warned of
pending layoffs and pension stripping. Four days later they seem poised to
sanction a $9 billion Muskrat Falls Project.
I ask the Premier: How can you proceed with billions of dollars in borrowing
when we cannot even manage a three-quarter of a billion dollar deficit?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As indicated by my colleague, the Minister of Finance last week, the
financing of Muskrat Falls will be through a combination of cash and borrowing,
Mr. Speaker. Again, as indicated by the Minister of Finance, the cost of Muskrat
Falls does not go to our net debt, Mr. Speaker, because we have a revenue
generating asset.
We know, Mr. Speaker, that the Muskrat Falls Project will pay for itself.
Therefore, the fact of the deficit, to try to connect the deficit to Muskrat
Falls is simply irrelevant. We have not borrowed in many years and we are making
an investment in the future of this Province, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
What the minister did not talk about was that this project will certainly not
generate any revenue prior to 2017. Typically, we do not know where it is going
yet because the overruns are not factored in there yet, and the minister knows
that. The Premier does not have a stellar record on planning. She voted to scrap
the FPI Act, and look at where Burin is today. She accidentally expropriated the
Abitibi Mill, costing over $100 million, and last week we have a $725 million
deficit.
I ask the Premier: Since you cannot manage an annual budget for even six
months, how can we have any confidence in a fifty-year Muskrat Falls projection?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of my record inside and outside this House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I stood with the people of Burin back in
1984 and 1985 and saved the plant in Burin through those joint efforts. That
plant has operated for over twenty-five years as a result of that community
action, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, today we still feel the fallout of the
closure of the cod fishery back in 1992. It is one of the issues we try to deal
with on a daily basis with our partners in the fishery. Mr. Speaker, this
government has done stellar work in terms of making sure that Newfoundland and
Labrador is in the best place it has ever been in its history.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am sure if you speak to the people in Burin today, there is no A plus
there. They do not consider this to be stellar planning, Mr. Speaker. You heard
the reports coming out of Burin this weekend. They are not so confident in the
planning.
Mr. Speaker, the Premier might have faith in her information on Muskrat
Falls, but the people of the Province are pleading for an independent review by
the PUB. Our own office conducted a poll: 67 per cent of the people in this
Province are suggesting we do an independent review of the DG3 numbers.
I ask the Premier: Will you listen to the people who elected you? Give the
PUB the opportunity to do the independent review it desires before sanctioning
Muskrat Falls.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are listening to the people who elected us. This announcement
of Muskrat Falls was made approximately two years ago. The Lower Churchill
Project has been studied for forty years. The provincial load forecast and MHI
confirm that we need power and that we have to do something about it. We have
examined all options, Mr. Speaker, such as refurbishing Holyrood. We have looked
at wind and natural gas. The reality is that Muskrat Falls is $2.3 billion
cheaper than the next closest project. Mr. Speaker, the federal loan guarantee
is in place.
At this point, what the member opposite forgot to outline is all the polls
suggest the people of this Province are squarely behind the development of
Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, as they should be.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: I would not be suggesting they are squarely behind it, but what
I do know is they want to see an independent review. They would like to see that
review done by the Public Utilities Board. The member opposite mentioned about
Manitoba Hydro. Well, I can tell you, the people in Manitoba are not as proud
today as they were of those experts, and the minister knows that.
Mr. Speaker, two bills relating to Muskrat Falls are on the Order Paper for
first reading today. The Opposition Parties have an agreement with government to
allow seventy-two hours of preparation time between tabling of a bill and debate
in this House.
I ask the Premier: We know the record of rushed legislation, so will you
honour your commitment and allow seventy-two hours of preparation time?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am not aware of what the member opposite is talking about. Today the bills
will be given first reading. They will be distributed on first reading, Mr.
Speaker. The Opposition will be given briefings tomorrow, as we have been doing
throughout this term.
The reality is that the bills will come to the House. They will be debated.
The Opposition also has to do their own work, Mr. Speaker. I see that the
Opposition, the Liberal Party especially, has been very good at having others
try to do their work on Muskrat Falls. Now it is time for them to do some of the
work, come to the House prepared and we will deal with the issues as they arise.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Why thank you, Minister. The minister need not worry; we will
be doing our work. You have had a year to do the work on those bills and we are
just getting them today. That is what I am talking about.
Mr. Speaker, after last year's election the Premier appointed Mr. Ross Reid
as the deputy minister of the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat which is now
a division of the Office of Public Engagement. This week, the Premier appointed
Marilyn Field as deputy minister to the Office of Public Engagement.
I ask the Premier: Do we now have two deputy ministers in the Office of
Public Engagement? Or is Mr. Reid gone and if so, where?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, last fall the Premier gave direction and set up the Office of
Public Engagement. It has brought together five entities: the ATIPP office,
Office of Youth Engagement, the Rural Secretariat, Strategic Business
Partnership, and the Non-Profit Sector. That was basically to recognize the good
work that has been done, but to build on that and bring those entities together
to make sure on both ends that the information that we can release to the public
is there and easily more accessible.
We have made some efforts in terms of that already; they will continue. As
well, in terms of the dialogue and consultation in terms of social and economic
policy, that continues again in the good work that we do.
Just recently there was a deputy minister assigned to head up the Office of
Public Engagement, a well-qualified individual. We are looking forward to
working with her, as a new department together, and the good things that we have
done in the past and build on that with Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for the Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, having new ferries built in Marystown now seems
very remote, if not impossible. All because this government cannot reach a
settlement with Kiewit, yet they can support Emera with a possible $30 million
grant.
I ask the Premier: What is the amount Kiewit and government cannot resolve?
Why are you unable to reach an agreement with them?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can tell you I was very pleased and very proud today to announce that we
are moving forward with replacing ferries our aging ferry fleet in
Newfoundland and Labrador today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DAVIS: Mr. Speaker, we have to get on with the business of building
these vessels. Building these vessels is for the people of remote parts of
Newfoundland and Labrador. We announced two projects today. One to build a new
ferry for Fogo Island and Change Islands to service the people of that area,
which is a very busy ferry service we provide there; and, as well, to build a
new forty-two metre swing vessel to replace those ferries that are undergoing
repairs or in for refit. We have also taken great steps, Mr. Speaker, to improve
the service to people in remote parts of Labrador like we have never done
before.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: I just want it on the record. The minister will not even give
the people of the Province the answer that I asked about what the cost overruns
are. Just to let you know, Minister, the same
MR. SPEAKER: Please direct your comments to the Chair.
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, that same announcement today for the Fogo Island
and Change Islands was made nine months ago by the former minister. Just to let
you know, you were not around.
Mr. Speaker, the Burin Peninsula is receiving blow after blow from this
government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: Despite this government's commitment to support the people of
the Burin Peninsula, we hear today of another blow and new ferries will not be
constructed in Marystown.
I ask the Premier: Why are you failing the people of the Burin Peninsula by
putting the sustainability of Marystown Shipyard in jeopardy and throwing
hundreds of people out of work?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I lived, worked, and raised my family on the Burin Peninsula. I
was a part of the whole controversy around the restructuring of the fishery back
in the 1980s. I stood shoulder to shoulder with people in that region, Mr.
Speaker.
As a government, we have gone back many times: investments in St. Lawrence;
the reactivation of the fluorspar mines; Dynamic Air Shelters, tremendous
support to that company in Grand Bank, employing many, many people on the Burin
Peninsula, and working now with all of the parties trying to find a future for
the fish plant in fortune.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, no doubt about it, an area of the Province that for all of
its history depended so much on the fishery is going through a tough time, but
we will go through it with them.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, yet another plant is closing on the Burin
Peninsula, leaving more than 100 people out of work. Back in May, we encouraged
government to lay out a development strategy for plants that were closing,
including the one at Burin.
I ask the minister: What strategy and action plan has this government
undertaken on behalf of the workers at Burin?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, our government certainly has a clear record of
working with communities involved in the fishery. We have seen many communities
challenged in recent times with closures of fish plants. We do have our fish
plant support workers program in place. We do work with communities, and we will
work with the people of the Burin and work with the community of Burin to see in
the future as to what options are available. We have also made contact with the
company to discuss the use of the building and possible new opportunities in the
future.
So, Mr. Speaker, as we have done in every other case, we will certainly work
with the community and see what we can do to help them in the future.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, there have been non-stop plant closures since
this government took office, now Burin is closing. The role of government is to
generate and manage prosperity, not stand by and wring their hands in despair
with no solutions when setbacks happen.
I ask the Premier: Why has her government done nothing to find a new operator
for the Burin Plant? Is it because government has been so focused on Muskrat
Falls that everything else is being neglected?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, if the Opposition critic has been following the
news, he could see we certainly have been squarely focused on the fishery and
that particular region particularly around the Fortune OCI issue.
Mr. Speaker, the comment he makes, and I would like to point out, our
government does not own plants. We do not operate fish plants, and, Mr. Speaker,
we do not shut them down. We are fully committed through various programs,
through my department, through Innovation, Business and Rural Development, to
support workers. To see in what ways we can support them to have a future, Mr.
Speaker, and we will certainly be there to work with their communities to see
what options and opportunities are there, whether it is in the fishery or
otherwise.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. DALLEY: We are firmly committed to work with the people of Burin, and
he can mark that down.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, on Friday, the Minister of Advanced
Education and Skills announced that she was referring the review of the Bell
Island adult education program to the RNC. There were no other details provided
at that time.
I ask the Premier: What leads you to believe that there may be criminal
activity associated with the program?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, the Department of Advanced Education and Skills did
a review in relation to the ABE program on Bell Island, and after we completed
our review we felt that we needed to close every potential loop and we also felt
that every lens needed to be applied; therefore, Mr. Speaker, we have referred
it to the RNC.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, the MHA for Conception Bay East Bell
Island was directly involved in the delivery of the ABE program that is now
under investigation. That member currently sits as Vice-Chair of the Public
Accounts Committee. There is plenty of precedent to ask the member to step aside
during the investigation. The Premier appointed him to the position.
I ask the Premier: Will you now ask the MHA for Conception Bay East Bell
Island to step aside until the investigation is complete?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, despite the spin from parties opposite, we are proud of our
record of accountability and transparency. As the minister has said, to make
sure that we have done a thorough investigation, that we have applied all the
proper lenses, we referred this file to the RNC; but, there is a presumption of
innocence, Mr. Speaker, and regardless of what they feel on the other side, I am
going to continue to support that assumption until I am told otherwise.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, the Bell Island ABE program has been
referred to the RNC. We know required site inspections were not happening at
other ABE sites across the Province and apparently, not all ABE programs were
being audited.
I ask the minister: For years you have promised but failed to deliver on the
Strategic Adult Literacy Plan. Would you agree this lack of oversight has set
the stage for program irregularities?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, unlike the Member for Burgeo La Poile, I believe
there are some great people in Newfoundland and Labrador administering the ABE
programs throughout this Province. They come from non-profit community groups,
Mr. Speaker; they are people who we certainly do business with day in and day
out, and they do a great job in what they do.
Mr. Speaker, any time there is an issue or a concern raised, the department
does whatever it can to do a review and to ensure that if there are any
loopholes or anything that needs to be tightened up or reviewed with any
particular program, we then apply that lens to other programs, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would not want to think that the non-profits or the volunteers
who work in these organizations are any way demeaned by this action.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the pomp and circumstance around government potentially
announcing their sanctioning of the Muskrat Falls Project is a farce. We have a
media advisory going on at 11:00 p.m. on a Sunday night
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: and then announcements at 6:00 p.m. in the evening outside
the regular sitting hours of the House of Assembly.
This is outrageous behaviour by the Premier and her government, refusing to
give the House the opportunity to question the sanctioning.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What is she so afraid of?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am willing to bet that if we had scheduled an announcement
around regular sitting hours of the House, I would be castigated here in the
House of Assembly for doing that and taking away from the importance of the
House.
Mr. Speaker, there will be an announcement this evening. The House is going
to be open tomorrow, the next day, the day after, tonight. I understand that we
could be spending Christmas here in the House if the claims of the Opposition
Parties are true, Mr. Speaker. I am going to be delighted to be here and answer
all of the questions the Leader of the Third Party might have.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, you know, refusing to have issues discussed and
questioned in this House shows disrespect for the Legislature.
I ask the Premier: What is she so afraid of that she has to maintain complete
control of the process? What is she keeping secret?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am hard pressed to know how to answer; does the Leader of the Third Party
want to come over and help me plan the announcement, Mr. Speaker?
Mr. Speaker, we are going to make an announcement. I understand that the
House is going to be open tonight. We are not closing the House today. You are
going to have Question Period tomorrow, Mr. Speaker. There is going to be
Question Period for the rest of the week.
I understand from the Opposition parties that we might be here till next
week, Mr. Speaker. I am looking forward to it. In all of those days there will
be a Question Period and I will be happy to answer any questions she puts
forward.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I will let the Premier know that I will be happy to collaborate on decisions
that are made that concern all of us.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The cost of the work camp purchased by government for the Muskrat Falls
Project from Manitoba Hydro was $4.7 million, and I do thank the Minister of
Natural Resources for sending me that information.
Bill 29 ensures government does not need to let people know what their money
has been spent on for the Muskrat Falls Project.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Natural Resources: Was the government
tendering process followed in this purchase?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
One of the things, Mr. Speaker, that we have tried to do with Muskrat Falls
we have been asked questions in relation to the members opposite; we have
outlined the costs as they come along. We have outlined how the money was spent.
I know that the Leader of the Liberals has asked on a number of occasions for
costs. We have put that out there.
In relation to the $4.7 million, Mr. Speaker, I was in my office yesterday
and I found the note that was referred to, and I sent the member opposite the
answer at that time because I had indicated that I would.
Mr. Speaker, in relation to business practices, the procurement at Muskrat
Falls is done in a way where you look at getting the best value for your money.
There was a camp, a second-hand camp that Manitoba Hydro had; it was purchased,
Mr. Speaker, and will get us to the spring.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the minister now and I did recognize that he sent me the information
yesterday - will he provide this House with documents to show how the
transaction was completed?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I will certainly have a discussion with Mr.
Martin and people at Nalcor. As the members opposite are aware, there is
commercially sensitive information that is protected as it would relate to
Muskrat Falls. We have outlined the $4.7 million. In terms of the process, Mr.
Speaker, I will find out the process and I will get back to the member opposite.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, in the spring Budget we were told by the
Minister of Finance that there was $1.9 billion in cash in the Consolidated
Revenue Fund. Last week the minister, during his mid-year financial review, said
it is now $1.4 billion.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell us: What happened to $500 million of the
people's money in the intervening months?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am going to give the answer and as the answer have been given
here many times before, I hope this time that it sinks in.
Mr. Speaker, we have cash on hand. We use that to fund our infrastructure
program and other needs that government has. Mr. Speaker, we have not borrowed
in a number of years because we have the cash on hand. Therefore, we have not
had to incur servicing costs. Every cent that we spend as a government is
accounted for on a daily basis with the Auditor General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, government's Adult Basic Education programs are
intended to help Newfoundlanders and Labradorians complete high school and
improve their chances of securing stable employment. ABE students often struggle
to overcome challenges as a result of low incomes, learning disabilities and a
lack of community support.
Can the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills explain the deficiencies
and oversight that led to the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary being called in to
investigate the botched delivery of Adult Basic Education on Bell Island?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the Member for St. John's North should know, once a matter has been turned
over to the police an investigation will ensue, and that I would not be able to
speak to that at this time.
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, this government likes to tout its openness and
transparency, yet secrecy and doubt hang over like a cloud over the botched
delivery of Adult Basic Education on Bell Island. People have a right to know
how public money was administered in this case.
I ask the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills: Will she release to the
public the report she has forwarded on to the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, any ABE program administered by a community group in
Newfoundland and Labrador relies on volunteers. I think we get stellar work from
many volunteers in Newfoundland and Labrador, unlike what the Member for St.
John's North would think of the volunteers of this Province.
Mr. Speaker, with regard to my first answer and what happens once we turn a
matter over to the RNC, to hear the subsequent question is absolutely bizarre.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, the Province's Public Accounts Committee is
intended to be a watchdog over the administration of public funds. The Minister
of Advanced Education and Skills has cast a pall over the Deputy Chair of the
Public Accounts Committee by referring the activities of the botched Bell Island
ABE program to the RNC without any explanation.
I ask the Premier: Will she appoint another member of the House to the Public
Accounts Committee until such a time that the air is cleared (inaudible)
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as we had heard from the Premier earlier, any time there is an
investigation or anything is being looked at, any matter by the police, in
Canada we certainly have the right to assume that a person is innocent until
proven otherwise. We will certainly maintain that value we have in our justice
system and we will treat people accordingly.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, last year government made investments to
bring stability to last year's sealing market. The 2013 sealing season will soon
be upon us. The trade barriers and other negative market forces hanging over the
sealing industry remain.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the harvesters in my district and across the
Province, I ask the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: What has he planned
to assist the industry for the upcoming year?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, the sealing industry has certainly helped shape
our history and has carved an important place in our culture. We know all the
stories of our sealing industry, and I think our government in recent years and
certainly in the future will continue our support for the sealing industry and
those harvesters who rely on that income in the spring of the year.
Over the past number of years, Mr. Speaker, we have made investments in the
seal industry. We continue to provide $100,000 for advocacy and promotion. We
continue to work with the sealers, industry, and stakeholders to promote the
products and promote the industry. We are certainly committed to continuing to
do that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, last year government extended a loan to the
industry. Is that something that is on the table this year?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last year's loan is not on the table this year.
There was a commitment by government to support the industry last year; the
terms of repayment, Mr. Speaker, are in place and we are confident that the loan
will be repaid. I will certainly update the House in the coming days as to where
that is. At the moment, in terms of the future, we have no formal request to
extend that beyond what the current agreement says.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, in a press release today the government had
noted the MV Apollo will be under contract until January 2013 and the
Department of Transportation and Works intends to continue this service by
issuing a tender for a ferry contract that will last until 2016.
Mr. Speaker, given that January 2013 is looming, this seems to be very poor
planning, to open up a competitive tendering process.
I ask the Minister of Transportation and Works: Is this going to be an open
tendering process for the Apollo ?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The announcement that was made today regarding replacement of ferry vessels
for the Island portion of the Province, a new swing vessel, as well as a new
contract to service the rural and isolated portions of Labrador, Mr. Speaker, is
the result of many, many months of very hard work by officials in the department
and my predecessor, who was the minister prior to me in the department, as well.
We are very pleased that we have reached this announcement here today.
This announcement, Mr. Speaker, will result in one of the most versatile
ships ever being used in Labrador to provide freight, passenger, and vehicle
transportation for people in remote Labrador, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
The Tabling of Documents.
Notices of Motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Lewisporte.
MR. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following Private Member's
Resolution.
WHEREAS the Province's Fisheries Loan Guarantee Program supports the
development of the Province's independent fish harvesting industry by making
available a government guarantee on loans offered by financial institutions,
including banks and credit unions, for such things as:
One, vessel-related items such as construction, purchase, and-or refit;
Two, combining of enterprises and licence acquisitions;
Three, refinancing of loans owed to fish processors for fixed assets and-or
licence acquisitions; and
Four, refinancing of loans previously obtained from chartered banks for
vessel-related purposes and fish licence acquisitions ,concurrent with combining
of enterprises; and
WHEREAS the program offers loan guarantees for combining of enterprises up to
$3 million, vessel-related items up to $2 million, and licence acquisitions up
to $1.5 million; the guarantee can provide up to 100 per cent of an outstanding
loan; and guaranteed loans are offered at the financial institution prime rate,
as negotiated between the harvester and the lender, to a maximum of prime plus 2
per cent or 2.5 per cent, depending on the term of the loan, and the harvester
may choose a fixed or floating interest rate and a floating rate may be
converted to a fixed rate at any time; and
WHEREAS the uptake under the program has been strong and benefits have been
great, demonstrating the program's success and strengthening the Province's
independent fish harvesting industry;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House encourages the provincial
government to continue supporting the development of the Province's independent
fish harvesting industry by maintaining the Province's Fisheries Loan Guarantee
Program.
That is seconded, Mr. Speaker, by the Member for Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that the private member's motion just referenced
will be the one that government will call from the Order Paper on Wednesday,
December 19, 2012, but, Mr. Speaker, with leave of the House, government would
propose that we not do Private Members' Day and we would continue with
government business, and in particular, debate on the Muskrat Falls legislation,
this coming Wednesday.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is a request from the Government House Leader for leave of the House to
do government business on Wednesday. Does the minister have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that under Standing Order 11 I shall move that this House not
adjourn at 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, December 18, 2012; and further, Mr. Speaker, I
give notice that under Standing Order 11 I shall move that this House not
adjourn at 10:00 p.m. on Tuesday, December 18, 2012.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS with the passage of Bill 29, the Access To Information And Protection
Of Privacy (Amendment) Act, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has
weakened citizens' access to information and has reduced government
transparency; and
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has moved towards greater
secrecy and less openness; and
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is breaking its own
commitment for greater transparency, accountability and freedom of information
which it said at one time was the hallmark of its government;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to repeal
the passage of Bill 29.
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, we are still receiving petitions to our office from people
across the Province who are not at all pleased with Bill 29, who want to see
this very restrictive and regressive legislation repealed. We just put together
the top ten things we do not like about Bill 29.
Number 10, it is hard to find even one change that makes it easier for anyone
to get information. As a matter of fact, it is quite the opposite. Number 9,
there is no review mechanism for what constitutes a Cabinet confidence, thereby
locking everything up.
Number 8, Bill 29 expands the definition of Cabinet documents exempting more
of them from release to the public, now at a time in our history when we need
even more access to Cabinet decisions, more accountability and transparency.
Number 7, Cabinet briefing notes are now exempt from access requests for five
years. We think, do most of these current Cabinet members still think they are
going to be around in five years to actually defend themselves?
AN HON. MEMBER: We will.
MS ROGERS: It is possible.
Number 6, Bill 29 strips the Auditor General of right to access certain
information and documents again, Mr. Speaker, at a time when we need more
transparency, more openness and more access to those documents. Number 5, the
Citizens' Representative, the Auditor General, and the Child and Youth Advocate
have terms of between five and seven years. The Information and Privacy
Commissioner here in Newfoundland and Labrador, unlike the rest of the country
has just two just two years, Mr. Speaker, the lowest in the country. This is
certainly regressive.
Number four, this government used to brag about having best access to
information in Canada. It seems this bill, with its amendments, will give us
some of the most restrictive legislation in the country. It has, and that is
showing itself in the requests for information that are coming back all
redacted.
Number three; Cabinet ministers are the final authority on whether a request
is frivolous and vexatious. That is certainly a sign of democracy, isn't it, Mr.
Speaker?
Mr. Speaker, I will wrap up now, and I look forward to presenting in the
future more petitions on this.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the lack of cellular phone coverage in Lark Harbour, York Harbour,
and Frenchman's Cove is a major safety concern for residents, especially in
times of emergency; and
WHEREAS the lack of cellular phone coverage restricts and negatively impacts
local businesses in the area as compared to most other areas of the Province;
and
WHEREAS the tourist destinations in our area are without cellular phone
coverage, causing a safety concern and inconvenience for tourists who visit,
furthermore the lack of cellular phone coverage can be a deterrent for people in
choosing our region as a tourist destination; and
WHEREAS the residents of Lark Harbour, York Harbour, and Frenchman's Cove
should have the same cellular phone coverage available as other areas of
Newfoundland and Labrador have long had such service;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge government to support our request to obtain cellular
phone coverage, and as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, I presented many petitions concerning a lack of cellular phone
coverage in Bay of Islands over the last year. The minister in the House
committed that he was going to start negotiations with officials in Ottawa to
see if we could come up with some provincial strategy for cellphone coverage. I
do not know the update on those meetings or what the government is planning on
doing with the cellular phone coverage, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: As we know, we are getting into a major deal with Emera, Mr.
Speaker. Once again, we are putting $30 million toward their bill if they do not
sanction the project, yet we cannot get the minister to have meetings with the
federal government or update the Province if we are going to have cellular
coverage in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, it is time for this government to get its priorities correct.
The residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, and especially the Bay of Islands,
need and want cellular phone coverage for safety, for business reasons, for
everyday use. We hear government members opposite, Mr. Speaker, on a regular
basis say we have to get into the new era and we have to move forward, but yet
they will not present the tools for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to
move forward.
I think the minister should stand and give us an update on negotiations with
Ottawa, if he is or was having negotiations with Ottawa, because if he is, Mr.
Speaker, there is no one in Newfoundland and Labrador aware of it.
Mr. Speaker, I call upon the government to proceed with what you say in this
House as in
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: that we need to get everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador
into the twenty-first century. It is time for this government to act. Words do
not mean anything anymore, Mr. Speaker, because we need action. Obviously, we
are not getting action.
I thank you again, Mr. Speaker, for the time to present a petition.
MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Sorry for the delay there. I anticipated more petitions.
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation,
Business and Rural Development, Motion 6, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that
this House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. today, Monday, December 17, 2012; and
further, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation, Business
and Rural Development, for Motion 7, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the
House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. today, Monday, December 17, 2012.
MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded that this House do not
adjourn at 5:30 p.m. on Monday, December 17, 2012; and it has been further moved
and seconded that the House do not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. on Monday, December 17,
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Motion carried.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Order 1, third reading of Bill 54.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Tourism, Culture and
Recreation, that
An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's Municipal Taxation Act,
Bill 54, be now read a third time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the bill be now read a third
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt a motion that Bill 54 be read a
third time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Motion carried.
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's Municipal Taxation
Act. (Bill 54)
MR. SPEAKER: This bill is now read a third time and it is ordered that
the bill do pass and the title be as on the Order Paper.
On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's Municipal Taxation
Act", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper.
(Bill 54)
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Natural Resources, for leave
to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting The Use and Expropriation of
Land For The Purpose Of The Muskrat Falls Project, Bill 60, and I further move
that the said bill be now read a first time.
Sorry, seconded by the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural
Development.
MR. SPEAKER: The bill number is? I am sorry.
MR. KING: Bill 60, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. Minister of Natural
Resources shall have leave to introduce a bill
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
It is moved and seconded that the hon. Minister of Natural Resources shall
have leave to introduce a bill,
An Act Respecting The Use And Expropriation Of
Land For The Purpose Of The Muskrat Falls Project, Bill 60, and that the said
bill be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the minister shall have leave to
introduce Bill 60 and that the said bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources, to introduce a bill, "An
Act Respecting The Use And Expropriation Of Land For The Purpose Of The Muskrat
Falls Project", carried. (Bill 60)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act Respecting The Use And Expropriation Of Land For
The Purpose Of The Muskrat Falls Project. (Bill 60).
MR. SPEAKER: This bill is now read a first time.
When shall the bill be read a second time?
MR. KING: Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 60 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Motion 5, I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation,
Business and Rural Development, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act
To Amend The Electrical Power Control Act, 1994, The Energy Corporation Act and
The Hydro Corporation Act, 2007, Bill 61, and I further move that the said bill
be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. Minister of Natural
Resources shall have leave to introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Electrical
Power Control Act, 1994, The Energy Corporation Act and The Hydro Corporations
Act, 2007, Bill 61, and that the said bill be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the minister shall have leave to
introduce Bill 61 and that the bill shall now be read a first time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. Minister of Natural Resources, to introduce a bill, "An Act
To Amend The Electrical Power Control Act, 1994, The Energy Corporation Act and
The Hydro Corporation Act, 2007", carried. (Bill 61)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Electrical Power Control Act, 1994,
The Energy Corporation Act and The Hydro Corporation Act, 2007. (Bill 61)
MR. SPEAKER: This bill is now read a first time.
When shall the bill be read a second time?
MR. KING: Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 61 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
At this time, I call Order 7, second reading of a bill,
An Act To Amend The
Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation Limited (Lease) Act, 1961 And The
Electrical Power Control Act, 1994, Bill 53.
MR. SPEAKER: When the debate adjourned, the Member for St. John's North
had time left on the clock on the amendment to the bill.
I acknowledge now the Member for St. John's North to continue with his
comments.
MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, it is a privilege for me to get up here and stand in my place and
speak to Bill 53, and that is what we were speaking about when the House broke
for the weekend, and I hope all members are back here in the House and are
rested, because we have an important week, and indeed we could be sitting up
until Christmas Day to discuss important matters related to Muskrat Falls.
We were talking about the implications of new developments in the Big Land,
in Labrador, related to minerals development, Altius' Julienne Lake development,
Alderon's interests in iron ore, Tata Steel, Labrador Iron Mines, the next stage
of the development by Vale, and on and on. There is certainly a lot of momentum
in the minerals industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, and indeed any reputable
economist you speak to today will tell you that this certainly a bright spot on
the horizon for us.
This bill I was reading some media reports about it on the weekend, and of
course, it has been touted as something we need, especially to give companies
that are interested in coming in and doing work in Newfoundland and Labrador in
this area, giving those companies a much better means, a better way, a more
transparent way of calculating their future operating costs when they are
looking at coming in here. So there is certainly
MR. LANE: (Inaudible).
MR. KIRBY: I was about to get to that, I would say to the Member for
Mount Pearl South who seems to be very curious that he is yelling across the way
about why we are speaking to this he and the Member for Mount Pearl North.
So I will certainly tell you that the problem really here is with clause 4 in
this bill. The clause says
MR. KENT: (Inaudible).
MR. KIRBY: Yes, I would say to the Member for Mount Pearl North, this
clause is a state.
"The Act is amended by adding immediately after
section 5.7 the following:
5.8
(1) Notwithstanding
section 7 of The Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation
Limited (Lease) Act, 1961, as of January 1, 2015, the Public Utilities Act shall
apply to all transmission lines and related assets located in Labrador, except
(
a) those in relation to the supply of hydro-electric power described in
subparagraph 7(1)(b)(
i) of The Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation Limited
(Lease) Act, 1961; and" most importantly; those are my words "those included
in the Muskrat Falls Project."
I would say to the members opposite, Mr. Speaker, last year, just over a year
ago, they ran on a platform that was called new energy. I think that should have
been called free energy for Nova Scotia, because that is more or less one of the
implications of this project. That is only if the Maritime Link gets approval.
In Nova Scotia they actually have an approval process for this project,
unlike Newfoundland and Labrador. The Public Utilities Board was kicked out of
the process, told that the government has no faith, no confidence in their own
political appointees. They would not replace them; no, no, no just kicked them
out altogether and impugned their ability to do work.
They often talk about the fact that the Premier of Nova Scotia is a member of
my political party and that somehow he supports it, so we should too. Look, Mr.
Speaker, if I was living in Nova Scotia I would probably support this thing too
if I was going to get free energy for however many years that these people are
planning on providing it.
Not everybody, Mr. Speaker, is in favour of this. As I was closing up I was
reminding members opposite what their political cousins in the PC Party in Nova
Scotia had to say about the Muskrat Falls plans in Nova Scotia. On October 30,
Mr. Speaker, during an emergency debate you see they had a debate in Nova
Scotia. They have had several debates and they also had an emergency debate
about the Muskrat Falls Project.
MR. KENT: (Inaudible).
MR. KIRBY: The Leader of the PC Party in Nova Scotia and he did not
have the Member for Mount Pearl North yelling across the way at him like I do
now, Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the PC Party in Nova Scotia had the following
warning.
He said, "I believe it's time to say, hold on, $7.4 billion is a lot of
money hold on, there are a lot of implications to this decision that we are
going to make; hold on, let's not sign on the dotted line first as the Premier
has done, and secondly, find out how much it's going to cost."
I will repeat that, "let's not sign on the dotted line first, as the Premier
has done, and secondly, find out how much it's going to cost. Let's do the right
thing for the ratepayers of Nova Scotia, for the young people of Nova Scotia who
are going to live with this decision for the next 50 years".
That is what we are talking about. That is what the PC Party of Nova Scotia
is saying. They are worried about the impact of this Muskrat Falls plan on
ratepayers in Nova Scotia. They are worried about the impact of this Muskrat
Falls plan on taxpayers in Nova Scotia. They are worried about the impact of
this fifty-year deal on future generations.
The PC Party here in Newfoundland and Labrador should get in touch with their
political cousins in Nova Scotia. Pick up the phone for it. They have been
trying to send you a message. On October 30 they tried to send you a message and
you are clearly not getting the message.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is our task also here in the House of Assembly to
always remember from the Upper Churchill to chocolate bars and rubber boot
factories, Newfoundland and Labrador has been the victim of bad government
business deals too many times in the past.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KIRBY: Too many times government has let the people of the Province
down by forging blindly ahead with poorly thought out deals and foolhardy plans,
bad deals and plans that the taxpaying public has been forced to pay for. Back
in the 1980s, Mr. Speaker, the PC Party had another idea for spending the money
of the hard-earned working Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
MR. LANE: (Inaudible).
MR. KIRBY: Yes, I am glad the Member for Mount Pearl South is yelling
across the way, Mr. Speaker, because that plan was to grow cucumbers in Mount
Pearl. That plan had questionable economics from the start as well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER (Littlejohn): Order, please!
MR. KIRBY: Questionable economics, because the Sprung Greenhouse
cucumbers cost over $1 to produce but sold for just sixty-three cents in
Atlantic Canada and for twenty-five cents in the United States.
This ill-fated plan was such a gamble, Mr. Speaker, that the PC government of
the time brought the gambler himself in. The gambler himself came in to try and
salvage the Sprung cucumber plant. That is true. After he played a show in St.
John's in March, 1989 that was the year I graduated high school the PCs
tried to shore up their failing cucumber plant, in one of the members' districts
in Mount Pearl, by courting the great country music star Kenny Rogers. What a
pickle they were in, Mr. Speaker. I say, what a pickle they were in.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member, I am certainly prepared to give you some leeway,
the hon. Member for St. John's North, but I remind you that we are speaking to
an amendment. I would like to stay a little bit close to that amendment. I think
that was a little far away.
I remind all hon. members to speak to the legislation and the amendment.
Thank you.
MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would say that this particular
section of the clause about the Muskrat
Falls Project, the reason why I bring this up, Mr. Speaker, is because we are
going to be in a pickle again now. We are going to be in another pickle, Mr.
Speaker, with Muskrat Falls. I think it is ironic and perhaps it is
foreshadowing, perhaps it is foreboding that the gambler, Kenny Rogers, appeared
at the annual George Street Festival again this year. He came back again.
It marks another poorly thought-out decision of government. I think it is
foreshadowing, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps it is a sign, gambles and mistakes that have
taken advantage of people's hopes for prosperity, self-sufficiency and jobs,
gambles that spend their hard-earned money and return nothing in the end but a
bill that must be paid off, Mr. Speaker. That has happened too many times in our
past.
What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that with the Muskrat Falls Project, which
is part of this amendment, a part of this particular bill, Bill 53, what we are
saying is that we should refer this to be considered more thoroughly so we do
not end up in another mess like the pickle with the cucumber plant, the pickle
in the Abitibi Bowater situation, all of the other messes that have been created
by government in haste in our history.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: If I could excuse the hon. member just for one second,
please.
There was a point of order raised on the last sitting day. I have a ruling on
that point of order.
On Thursday, December 13, during debate on the amendment to Bill 53, the
Leader of the Third Party raised a point of order about comments made by the
Member for Lake Melville. I have reviewed Hansard and rule that there is no
point of order.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It certainly gives me great pleasure to stand in my place today and speak to
the amendment and legislation regarding Bill 53,
An Act To Amend The Churchill
Falls (Labrador) Corporation Limited (Lease) Act, 1961 and The Electrical Power
Control Act, 1994.
Mr. Speaker, unlike the member opposite for St. John's North, I am going to
speak some facts here. I am not going to get into political rhetoric or
political grandstanding.
Mr. Speaker, the reality of this legislation, there are two very positive
outcomes that will happen when this bill is enacted, and this is the reality of
this legislation. Nalcor and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro will be able to
charge fair market value for industrial electricity. Secondly, the new policy
will establish clear and fair rules for industrial customers.
Charging fair market value for industrial electricity is a good thing for the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador as it will allow the Province to earn extra
revenues it currently does not enjoy. Just as importantly, Mr. Speaker, it will
help ensure industrial customers present and prospective can better plan into
the future.
Mr. Speaker, I would first like to speak about the benefits that will come
from charging fair market value in terms of how Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
will benefit, and indeed they will benefit. Mr. Speaker, IOC and Wabush Mines
have paid approximately $110 million for power over the past ten years. If this
power was sold under the competing Hydro-Qubec rates, this power would have
been sold for $900 million. By increasing the Labrador industrial rate from 0.6
cents to approximately 6.5 cents per kilowatt hour by 2020, which this policy
will enable us to do, we as a Province will see tens of millions of dollars if
not hundreds of millions of dollars, Mr. Speaker, diverted back into the
Province.
Mr. Speaker, our Energy Plan has always maintained that receiving fair market
value for our energy resources is a priority. By implementing this new policy we
will be doing exactly that. Our goal of developing our natural resources to the
maximum benefit of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians is something we all
understand. I can assure you that is something I get; I think the members of the
Official Opposition, from hearing them earlier, certainly get it as well. It is
unfortunate that the Third Party are not getting that message, Mr. Speaker.
As we move towards an era of energy security and independence in this
Province, we have the ability to attract new businesses and new industry, in
particular in the mining sector in Labrador. In doing so, Mr. Speaker, while
attracting new business with fair industrial rates, we also recognize the
ability to generate revenue from our hydro resources.
The mining industry relies on significant blocks of electricity to run their
operations. Through the Twin Falls block and the Churchill Falls recall block,
and with the eventual coming on stream of Muskrat Falls, the opportunity to
monetize our water resources through industrial expansion is greatly enhanced.
Mr. Speaker, we see the monetary benefits through the sale of electricity to
the people of this Province that we will enjoy. I would now like quickly to
speak to the benefits that will be realized by industrial and new potential
industries that are considering setting up operations in Labrador.
From the benefit point of view of the industries, the new rate policy will
establish a clear and fair rate for all industrial customers in Labrador,
competitive with other jurisdictions including Quebec, and that is very
important.
We want to encourage industrial activity, so let us make sure we are clear on
that. We want to see more things happening in this Province and, in particular,
in Labrador. This will help industrial proponents make business decisions by
providing certainty in planning regarding investments in Labrador-based
projects. This is consistent with best-practice not only in Canada, but around
the world, Mr. Speaker, and I will get to that in a minute.
Right now, there are a number of large developments being considered,
including Alderon's Kami project; New Millennium-Tata Steel's LabMag project;
Vale underground mine is in consideration; and the Grand River Iron Sands.
Several other projects are being looked at, Mr. Speaker.
So we are looking at $10 to $15 billion of investment in Labrador mining
projects
AN HON. MEMBER: How much?
MR. CRUMMELL: Ten to fifteen billion dollars, and the proponents need to
fully understand the availability and cost of power.
Mr. Speaker, encouraging industrial development is desirable for the people
of Newfoundland and Labrador for many reasons, and this is an activity both
developed and developing countries are fully engaged in.
By establishing a single published electricity rate which, by the way, will
be recalculated annually as part of this new policy we will keep this Province
competitive with other jurisdictions in encouraging development in Labrador. The
new rate is expected to be competitive with the lowest industrial rates in
Canada, so we need to keep this in mind.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak briefly on what other jurisdictions have
had to do to attract industrial development. This is a little outside the box,
so let us speak about this for a minute. For example, when we look to our
country, Ontario, for example, recently announced a program in June of last year
to aggressively target large industries to set up shop in their Province.
Eligible companies could qualify for a reduced electricity rate if they create
new jobs and bring new investment to Ontario. Companies that make a minimum
investment of $250 million will be eligible for stable industrial power rates at
a rate much lower than the current Ontario industrial rate. Ontario's Energy
Minister, Chris Bentley said, "We want to make sure you land that extra line of
production here, we want to make sure you open up that mill in Northern Ontario,
rather in the States or somewhere else" "as long as it does not increase costs
for existing families and businesses."
Mr. Speaker, while Ontario's program and Newfoundland and Labrador's new
electricity rate policy for Labrador industrial customers are different in that
we are raising rates and they are lower rates, the fundamentals of encouraging
investments are basically the same. So, we are actually raising rates, but we
are still encouraging industrial development. They are lowering rates to
encourage industrial development. We will see much more benefits in the people
of Ontario than the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a very good,
positive thing. This is something Ontario has to do. While the new rate policy
will allow us as a Province to earn market value for electricity rates, the
competitive rates we are establishing will not detract investors.
Mr. Speaker, our resource sector competes in the global economy. It is within
this context that I would just like to call out another example of what other
jurisdictions in the world are doing to encourage industrial development. What
we are doing here is identical, the same thing, only we are doing it
differently.
In September of this year, Brazil's Energy Minister announced a new program
to reduce Brazil's energy cost. Brazil, which is the world's sixth-largest
economy but has the world's third-highest electricity cost, decided to reduce
electricity costs to bring much-needed relief to Brazilian industries,
especially in the energy intensive areas, such as mining and smelting and
petrochemicals. It sounds familiar, doesn't it? The government has stated that
it hopes this action will help Brazilian companies lower their sky-high
production costs and improve their competitive edge abroad.
Again, Mr. Speaker, the difference to what Brazil is doing and what we are
doing as we move to more competitive market value and industrial rates is
obvious. The end goal is the same, but with far more benefits for
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We are raising the rates. We are going to
maximize the benefits from hydroelectricity while other jurisdictions are
actually lowering their rates to encourage business to move in.
Mr. Speaker, competitive energy costs are important for the competitiveness
of existing industrial firms. As well, it is important in our ability as a
Province to attract new companies and investment to the Province. We need these
companies to have a stable business model.
In the January 2010 edition of Area Development Magazine , a survey of
corporate location decision makers showed that energy availability and rates
ranked third in importance when companies decided to locate a business in a
particular jurisdiction ahead of other factors, like corporate tax rates,
availability of skilled labourers, shipping costs, et cetera. Mr. Speaker, we
understand a number of projects are in the pre-feasibility stage and it is
important to ensure proponents have a clear understanding of the benefits of
setting up business in Labrador.
What government cannot control, we must do. By publishing industrial rates
and by ensuring competitive rates, we will be helping and encouraging industrial
expansion. Over the coming months and years, I am confident the interest in our
iron ore developments will result in numerous larger developments. I am
confident as companies realize the right conditions exist to establish
operations, that they will be encouraged to spend more and more in exploration
in hopes that the next Voisey's Bay is just over the horizon.
Mr. Speaker, in a world where there is economic uncertainty, there is no
safer haven than a strong resource-based economy to insulate a Province or a
country from external economic forces. That is not to say we do not need a
strong global economy to maximize the benefits from our natural resources, but
during uncertain global economic times resource-based economies always weather
the storm far better.
Mr. Speaker, we see this happening right now in Newfoundland and Labrador. We
certainly see what is happening globally, in Europe. We see what is happening in
Brazil. We see what is happening in the USA with the fiscal cliff.
Mr. Speaker, our economy here is red hot. It is firing on all cylinders. We
see ourselves insulated from the global economic forces around us. It is because
we do have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to our natural resources and
what makes us viable as a Province and in our economy.
When we look at resource development, it is important to protect us from the
outside influences. It does affect us when it comes to our bottom line in terms
of royalties, and we have seen examples of that lately. Overall, the economy is
moving ahead, it is moving ahead quickly. This will only bode well in the very
near future when the global economy rebounds.
We will again see the benefits from the royalty regimes; we will see the
benefits from our resource-based economy. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, we
certainly will see the benefits for ourselves here in Newfoundland and Labrador,
and Newfoundland and Labrador in general in terms of jobs, employment, tax
benefits, tax rates. As we continue to develop our natural resource, we will
continue to grow our economy, make it a more secure future for those who come
after us.
Mr. Speaker, in closing, Bill 53 will help establish clear and fair rates for
all industrial customers in Labrador. It will keep rates competitive with
provinces right across this country, and in particular Quebec. It will allow the
Province to earn market value for electricity rates, and, Mr. Speaker, the
industrial rates policy will not affect Labrador residential and commercial
rates. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is very important to the people of
Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, the benefits are many for the people of this Province when it
comes to establishing this new policy. For this reason, I am confident this bill
will be passed with a large majority of the House. I encourage all members of
this House to vote in favour of this historic legislation.
Mr. Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand here today to speak on the amendment that was made by the Third Party
here in this House. Mr. Speaker, it is an amendment that this bill be withdrawn
and the subject referred to the Resource Committee of the House.
Mr. Speaker, as we have seen in the House of Assembly, on many occasions
there are many issues that come forth here in the House of Assembly. On many
occasions, Mr. Speaker, we always banter back and forth about what is right and
what is wrong and we are all put in a position to try to do the best we can for
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the people who elected us, and all the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
This bill, Mr. Speaker, mainly deals with industrial rates in Labrador and
the potential development in Labrador mainly and what we can do to strengthen
that.
The amendment put forward by the Third Party, Mr. Speaker, is something that
on several occasions has happened in the past. I go back, I think it was in
2002-2003 when we had an all-party committee here in the Province on the
fishery. I am not sure how many people were here. Probably there were a few
members who were here at the time when we struck up a committee for an all-party
committee in Newfoundland and Labrador to make a recommendation to Ottawa about
our fisheries in the Province.
Several people who were here at the time, several members, Mr. Speaker, can
remember that.
As a part of the government at the time, there was an all-party committee
which the Opposition at the time, the PC Party sitting across now thought it was
a great idea, and something that we should do, something that is in the best
interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. They all agreed to it, and
I ask the question: Why don't you agree to it now? Why don't they agree to it
now, Mr. Speaker?
Do you know why? I will tell you why, Mr. Speaker, because I am willing to
bet that they have orders from Nalcor, from Ed Martin
AN HON. MEMBER: Premier Martin.
MR. JOYCE: No, he is not the Premier yet, but I am sure he is going to be
running for Premier. He might be calling the shots, but we cannot classify him
as Premier. He might be calling the shots: Here is what we are doing, take it or
leave it. Most people over there are saying: Yes, okay, we are going to go and
just follow the steps and move on with it.
Mr. Speaker, that is what is happening here. If anybody in this House can
answer me a question, if Muskrat Falls is not going to be on until 2017-2018, if
the power from Muskrat is going to be put into this pot, in the TwinCo pot now
up in Labrador and is going to be used, and one of the big issues is that we are
going to exclude the PUB in 2017-2018, that gives us almost five years to hold
hearings to see what we are going to do, if we are going to do it right, what is
the rush? We are not going to using a lot of this power from Muskrat, for
example.
Then, it is my understanding that this bill does not that effect until 2015,
so we have three years. What is the rush? Why not go out and have public
hearings? Why not go out, sit around and say okay, what is the best approach
that we could take here? Why not leave the mining companies with this and let
the people have an opportunity to have a discussion?
No one can answer me that question. Do we get elected in this House of
Assembly and once we get elected in this House of Assembly all of a sudden we
know better than anybody else out there in the general public? All of a sudden,
do we become these brainstorms and whatever we say is correct because we said
it? What have we come to, Mr. Speaker? What have we come to?
Are you telling me, Mr. Speaker, or is anybody in this House telling me that
the people who have been working in the industry for the last forty, fifty or
sixty years do know better than the Member for Bay of Islands on these issues,
do not know better than the Member for Humber West and better than the Member
for St. John's West? Of course, they do. That is why we have to go out and seek
their input. That is why we need information brought forward in the House. That
is why we need the stakeholders, the people who are going to be adversely
affected on it.
Mr. Speaker, I will just give you a few examples on why we should hold public
hearings so we could get a lot of information and not rush. Mr. Speaker, 2015 is
when this bill is going to take over for part of the electricity.
Let's look at Abitibi, Mr. Speaker, brought up in the news last Friday by the
Supreme Court of Canada who said: No, the government was not correct. I think it
was
section 50 of the Supreme Court of Canada reading, where it said it was just
a money grab when we expropriated the mill mistakenly, I might add, mistakenly
expropriated the mill.
The Premier at the time, she was the minister. We rushed through the House.
The Premier said we have to have it done. I know the members opposite here, Mr.
Speaker, had a briefing with the Premier. The Premier said we have to get it
done; we have to get it done. They asked the question: what is included? They
were told what did the Premier do? Picked up the phone, phoned Ed Martin, and
said: give these people a briefing on it. They sat down; they asked them point
blank, eyeball to eyeball: is the mill included? He said, no, it is not
included. Are you guaranteed? We are guaranteed it is not included. Guess what,
Mr. Speaker: it was included.
Guess what? Ed Martin is the same one who is running this whole show on all
of this. Should we ask questions? Should you ask questions? Of course we should
ask questions.
You know the funny part about it? Mr. Speaker, I get back to this Abitibi,
they are looking up for a certain amount of money from Abitibi to clean up; the
Supreme Court of Canada said: no, this is only a money grab. When it came back
to Newfoundland and Labrador, they said: oh, we do not have a price tag put on
it yet; we do not know how much it is going to cost to clean up. So how much did
you ask for of the Supreme Court of Canada? It is amazing, Mr. Speaker. That is
the issue, Mr. Speaker, of why we need to ask questions.
Another reason, Mr. Speaker, I mentioned earlier about the committee we set
up years ago on the fisheries; that brings me back to another issue that we had
here in the House of Assembly that I spoke of, Mr. Speaker: the FPI Act. I would
challenge anybody in this House, I will challenge anybody out there looking now
to go back and look in Hansard; when I stood in this House, Mr. Speaker, I stood
in this House and I said: we do not have enough safeguards in this proposal to
scrap the FPI Act to protect the people who are going to be adversely affected.
I said it in this House, and I said that is one of the main reasons why I could
not support dismantling the FPI Act because I knew it, Mr. Speaker: the minute
the act was unenforceable, these plants were going to close.
I said it in this House, Mr. Speaker and I said it publicly. I said it. Mr.
Speaker, just to give you a little example of why I ask a lot of questions in
this House
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: I know, Mr. Speaker, they cannot handle the truth over there.
I know that.
The Premier at the time was the one who brought the changes to the FPI Act
in. The Premier at the time brought the FPI Act in, Mr. Speaker. We stood up and
we asked to hold hearings. We stood up and asked to hold hearings for the FPI,
but guess what? Not a chance. See you later. We know what is better. Guess what?
The Premier at the time, the Member for Humber West, never even voted. He
abstained, Mr. Speaker he abstained. I am not sure, but I will find out; there
are two or three others who abstained from this bill.
Mr. Speaker, this goes back to this amendment by the Third Party referring to
the Resource Committee. If we had to go around and discuss a lot of this around
the Province, we would have gotten the true feeling from the people. A lot of
people did not want the FPI Act changed, Mr. Speaker. Look at today, what
happened because the government said: No, we know better than anybody else. We
know what we are doing. Go down and ask the people in Marystown who spent thirty
and forty years working at the plant. What do they think of the scrapping of the
FPI Act?
What happened in government: Oh, I am Big Brother. I know more about it than
anybody. I am going to walk in. I know what to do. We are going to scrap the FPI
Act. We are going to be better, but the man who brought it in never even voted
for it. So, Mr. Speaker, you have to ask questions.
Look at Burin. I feel sorry for those people down there, Mr. Speaker, because
they put faith in the government. Once again, Mr. Speaker, they are asking
people in Labrador and the Province: Put faith in us. We know what is better
than anybody else. We do not need to talk to you. We do need to go out and have
hearings. We do not need to go out and see who is going to be adversely
affected. We know. It is getting arrogant, Mr. Speaker. The whole attitude is
getting to the point now where you are almost like Big Brother.
I say to any member opposite: Go down to Burin. It is a sad day down on the
Peninsula, a very sad day, Mr. Speaker. I see you are nodding your head. You
agree, Mr. Speaker. It is a sad day down in Burin because when that FPI Act was
scrapped, that was taking them all and saying: Okay, when the clock turns and
the time is up, clicking, out the door, see you later.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: Take the offshore quotas, Mr. Speaker, we are using there. We
are going to have hearings on the offshore quota, just like we asked for here.
We asked to set up an all-party committee, the same thing we are asking for
here. Guess what? It was never, ever set up. It was never, ever done, Mr.
Speaker. That is why we need to have input.
There is no rush on this there is absolutely no rush. If we had to go and
have the hearings like we are asking for here, Mr. Speaker, we would have found
out the offshore quotas were to supplement the plants that FPI owned. That is
how it was set up. It is almost like the same is being set up for electricity.
There are some offshore quotas where you make profits. You supplement the plants
that are not making, but it is still our quota. We are keeping people working
and we are keeping the product here in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is why it
was set up. They are asking us to do the same thing with Labrador, the exact
same thing. Look at what happened with the FPI Act without proper oversight,
proper input, without hearings. Look at what happened. Just go down to
Marystown, go down to Burin and see what happened.
A lot of these people here were not around at the time, Mr. Speaker. A lot of
members were not here. I was here, I stood in this House. I stood over on this
side and I said it, that if we do not have proper oversight and then when you
get all the information in front of you, then we can make a proper informed
decision. Then we can say we had an informed decision.
Mr. Speaker, I will just give you another example and I challenge anybody
here to say committees do not work. Public Accounts; guess what, Mr. Speaker?
When we hold hearings here the Member for Terra Nova is over there shaking his
head in agreement. He is over there, Mr. Speaker. When we have hearings in
Public Accounts, guess what we do, Mr. Speaker? We call witnesses, Mr. Speaker.
That is what we do, we call witnesses.
Mr. Speaker, if we are having a Public Accounts meeting here in the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador, we are the committee and we are allowed to come in
this Legislature we just had I think five hearings, Mr. Speaker. We had five
hearings and we had five sets of witnesses over here on five different issues.
We went through line by line, every question we wanted answered.
Guess what? The general public demands that we do that with Public Accounts,
demand it. For the six or seven years, Mr. Speaker, there were none, absolutely
no meetings and no hearings. When I was appointed, and the Chair here, the
Member for St. Barbe was appointed, we made an agreement that we are going to
ask and I have to give the members credit on the Public Accounts at the time,
that we all agreed we had to have public hearings and that we are going to call
witnesses and we are going to pick topics. We all agreed to that. I have to give
everybody credit. We all agreed to that, Mr. Speaker. That is what we did.
Guess what, Mr. Speaker? With that Public Accounts Committee that we set up
in this House, that we are using and making good use of it for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador, my question is: Why can't we do it for the Resource
Committee? Why can't we do it for Question Period? Why can't we do it? That is
my question.
MS SULLIVAN: Do it in Question Period.
MR. JOYCE: I hear the Minister of Health over there, do it in Question
Period. What is the use? I cannot get any answers on the hospital. What is the
use? I cannot get any answers on the hospital.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the member to speak to the Chair, please.
MR. JOYCE: Can you tell the Minister of Health I cannot get any questions
on the hospital because I can't, and the people in Corner Brook do not have any
answers yet either, Mr. Speaker. So just let her sit back, relax.
MS SULLIVAN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order.
MS SULLIVAN: Whenever the member opposite has asked questions with regard
to the Corner Brook hospital or anything else to do with health care in
Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, I have stood and I have answered those
questions.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Just let her go back in Hansard when I
asked: When is construction going to start? No answer.
Mr. Speaker, once we get into the Public Accounts, the members opposite are
also a part of it, and we worked well together. I have to say, we worked well
together. We were all in agreement. We sat down and we set the guidelines of
what we were going to discuss. We set the guidelines on how we were going to
speak. We set the guidelines for how long everybody was going to speak.
Guess what, Mr. Speaker? From my understanding and the people can correct
me this is going to be the first report presented to the House of Assembly and
to the department on Public Accounts, Mr. Speaker, in about seven years. This is
the first report that is going to be presented to the House on the Public
Accounts, on the hearings that we had and presented to the ministers.
Mr. Speaker, I ask you a question, and I ask the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador: What is wrong with holding Public Accounts meetings, that we are
demanded upon by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, having witnesses here
and presenting our reports to the House of Assembly? Everybody is saying you
should have more. Why can't we do that for the Resource Committee? Why can't we
do it? Why doesn't someone answer me, of why we cannot do it?
The Public Accounts is working so well, which it is, and it is a Committee of
the House of Assembly set up by this House, adhered to all the rules by the
House of Assembly, have to call witnesses and have to present reports to this
House, to the ministers involved that we hold hearings. Everybody in this
Province agrees that Public Accounts this year was all out in the public. We had
the media there at the time, Mr. Speaker, we had witnesses there. We had other
people sitting in on it and it worked well. All of a sudden now because, for
some reason, this big deal with the electricity going to Labrador, it goes into
a different pot and we are not allowed to have a committee to go and ask
questions on it.
I always have to ask, Mr. Speaker, why can't we have a committee to ask if
there is nothing to hide? I have to ask that. If you look at Bill 29, Mr.
Speaker, and we look at the oversight of Bill 29, that is just an overarching
policy: Nalcor is now exempt from public tendering, exempt from public scrutiny.
The Auditor General can go in, if they find anything wrong, they have to report
it back to the Cabinet the same ones who appointed it, Mr. Speaker.
My question is: Is this some kind of secrecy? I have to ask. The reason why I
have to ask is because history has proven itself on many occasions, Mr. Speaker.
I ask anybody this bill is not going to take affect until 2015 what is wrong
with setting it aside, saying we are going to have some public hearings, we are
going to invite people in, we are going to do up a list of witnesses who want to
come in, to sit down, make a presentation. We are going to sit down then, Mr.
Speaker, with any stakeholders that are involved. We are going to sit down with
any communities or municipalities that are involved. We are going to sit down
with the unions that are going to be involved, if we create employment up in
Labrador. What is wrong with it? What is the big bogeyman about doing all that,
Mr. Speaker?
It just amazes me that all of a sudden we get elected and then all of a
sudden we just know better than everybody. I hear the Member for St. John's
South over there now, you have your
AN HON. MEMBER: Mount Pearl North.
MR. JOYCE: The Member for Mount Pearl North has his mouth going. You have
your new buddy there now, Ross Reid, telling you what to do, so you go out and
take your notes there. You go out and take your notes.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Speak to the bill, please.
MR. JOYCE: I am sorry, but can you tell the Member for Mount Pearl North
to go out and get his notes because obviously he does not know what he is
talking about, Mr. Speaker, what he is saying over here across to the House. Him
and his buddy, Ross Reid, can go out there and have a little chat and come back,
because I am not going to sit down here until I am finished with what I am going
to say.
I will be back, Mr. Speaker, speaking on this
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. JOYCE: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. JOYCE: Okay, leave is finished for everybody.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.
MR. S. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I do not know if anybody else over on this side feels the same way as I do,
but it almost feels like I am involved in a game show where the members opposite
would stand up and speak on something and we are supposed to guess on what they
are speaking about. I do not know what the rest of them are talking about, but I
would like to speak to the amendment today and the motion.
I would say to the member across I was shaking my head at him, but it was in
disbelief because he went everywhere from cucumbers to offshore fishing quotas,
which I have absolutely no idea what the relevance was.
MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order.
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, if I say something, I do not mind admitting it,
but if the member wants to listen to what I said, please say what I said. At no
time did I mention cucumbers. I know the member gets his speaking notes and
someone says here is what you have to say.
So I ask the member to withdraw. At no time did I bring up the word
cucumbers. You are not even listening to what I am saying. You are not paying
attention, but you are trying to make up I ask him to withdraw the remarks.
You heard it. I did not mention it, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
MR. JOYCE: So I am allowed to say anything now.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.
MR. S. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was referring to all members across the way, and I would know that the
separation between the two parties is getting closer and closer every day. I was
referring to the members opposite. The Member for St. John's North spent about
ten minutes talking about cucumbers and pickles, which is great and which is a
fair subject, probably not too relevant today. The other member, as I said, went
off on a tangent and was talking about offshore fishing quotas as well as
Abitibi, I believe. I was following him for a while and then I just strayed off.
That is fine. Mr. Speaker, I see the member now is nodding in agreement that
actually was the case. I am glad we are all on the same page.
Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about
MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order.
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, once again, I do not mind anybody questioning
what I say, but at no time did I say in this House that I am in agreement. For
him just to get up and say that I am in agreement is not what am I supposed to
say, Mr. Speaker, when you say something that is not true in this House? How
would you phrase it, Mr. Speaker, to ensure what he is saying is accurate? I am
not just going to stand here and let him make comments which are simply not true
that are attributed to me.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Terra Nova, please.
MR. S. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Back to what I was saying, the new rate policy is needed and there are simple
facts why it is needed. When we debate a topic for an amount of time sometimes
the main messaging gets lost. If I could just reel it back and bring it back to
why we are discussing it and what we are actually discussing.
Unlike the rest of Canada, Mr. Speaker, Labrador has no industrial rate set.
To tell you the truth, it surprises a lot of people to know that is the fact
because we know there is a lot of heavy industry in Labrador. To not have
industrial rates set as in the rest of Canada is obviously somewhat problematic
and surprising to a lot of people. It obviously creates challenges to companies
when they come in, when they do feasibility studies, and when they are looking
at wanting to do business in Labrador.
We know over the last number of years many companies have looked at doing
business in Labrador. Many companies are in Labrador as we see it right now.
Labrador is booming, unprecedented. We have never seen anything like it.
Before companies come in it is all part of the business plan. You have to
know what you are going to be putting out before you know what you are going to
be taking in. It is only the same thing if you are going to rent a house, you
need to know how much you are going to be paying in electricity bills in order
to know if you can afford the house. It is the same thing when companies are
looking at going into Labrador. They have to know everything. They have to have
all the information on the table.
Before they can even tell if a company or an operation would be feasible,
they obviously have to know industrial rates for electricity. It is vitally
important and is something that is quite obvious. It is a little bit concerning,
because in the last number of days leading up to this, the Official Opposition
seemed to be completely in agreement with this. Now I do not know if it is just
particular members of the Opposition, but it is seeming now that they are not so
much in favour of it. I cannot really find out why they are not. As I mentioned
briefly a little while ago, they never really spoke to that part of it; they
were speaking on other topics that probably were not overly relevant.
I would ask them: what now is the issue? I know your House Leader was in
total agreement with it, if I can interpret her words from the past week. I
heard the member on a local radio call-in show speaking about it, I believe, as
well as speaking here in the House. Everything seemed to be kosher; all of a
sudden it is off the rails. I do not know if that is a member in particular or
if it is the party's stance as a whole. It seems like pretty obvious
legislation, legislation that is going to have huge positiv