Manitoba Hansard — 2 December 2003 (Sitting 10, 38th Legislature, 2nd Session)

38-2-10

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LV No. 10– 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, December 2, 2003

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

333 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 3, 2003 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Highway 32 Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: Rural highways are part of the mandate of the Province of Manitoba. Under a previous commitment, the Province of Manitoba would be covering the costs of four- laning that portion of Highway 32 that runs through Winkler, Manitoba.

The Department of Transportation and Gov- ernment Services has altered its position and will now undertake the project only if the City of Winkler will pay half of the total cost of con- struction. The provincial government's offload- ing of its previous commitment will cost the City of Winkler several million dollars. The City of Winkler has now been informed that it will have to wait several years before this project could be undertaken.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider honouring the previous commitment and complete the four- laning of Highway 32 through the city of Wink- ler, absorbing all costs related to the construction as previously agreed.

To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the re- sponsibility of the Department of Transportation and Government Services for the construction of ural highways. r To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the signi- ficant and strategic importance of the completion of four-laning Highway 32 through the city of Winkler, especially as it relates to the economic growth and development of the city of Winkler and its trading area.

To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the valu- able contribution of the city of Winkler and its trading area to the provincial economy and re- prioritize the four-laning of Highway 32 for the 2004 construction season. These are submitted by Greg Ens, S. Roth, Al Willoughby, Brad Wolfe, Susan Wiebe and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Co-op Program for Nursing Students Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis- lative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to the petition is as follows: A co-op program for nursing students at the University of Manitoba was approved by the Senate and the Board of Governors. This program will provide the opportunity for students to apply their theoretical knowledge in the workplace through supervised work terms for which they are paid. Students are hired by participating agencies under supervision of a workplace employee who serves as a mentor. Students assume responsibilities suitable for their level of knowledge and expertise and will provide patients with much-needed nursing.

334 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 The co-op program will enable nursing stu- dents to acquire valuable experience by working with a seasoned mentor, become more proficient and better able to handle heavier workloads and increase their knowledge, skills and confidence. This program will enable students to earn income to help reduce their debt load. The Department of Health will benefit through reduced orientation costs for new gradu- ates and an increased likelihood that new graduates will remain in the province. Although the Minister of Health (Mr.

Chomiak) was unable to attend the round table held on November 7, 2003, he graciously sent a representative who restated his position to work with the students to reach a creative solution. Several Canadian un iversities have success- fully implemented nursing co-op programs. Sev- eral faculties within the University of Manitoba have such a program available to their students. Therefore, students within the Faculty of Nur- sing should have equal opportunity and access to a co-op program. Mr.

Speaker, this program will offer stu- dents valuable experience and provide the confi- dence and strength they will need in the future. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly to consider supporting the proposed co-op pro- gram. Signed by P. Lim, Maria Bailey, Lindsey Lorteau and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. * (13:35) Sales Tax Proposal Mrs. Bonnie Mitchels on (River East): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to presen t the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: The Mayor of Winnipeg is proposing a new deal which will result in new user fees and addi- tional taxes for citizens of the city of Winnipeg. An Honourable Member: Oh, oh. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, I know the Min- ister of Energy would like to laugh about this, but Manitobans are still signing the petition– Mr. Speaker: Order. When members are read- ing a petition, it has to be read word for word. There is no ad libbing or adding context to the petition. Mrs.

Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Mayor of the city of Winnipeg is pro- posing a new deal which will result in new user fees and additional taxes for citizens of the city of Winnipeg. One of these proposed changes requires the provincial government to approve an increase of the sales tax. The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Accountability Act requires a referen- dum to take place before the provincial gov- ernment can increase major taxes, including the retail sales tax.

The Doer government has been silent on whether they will make the necessary legislative changes required to give the City of Winnipeg additional taxing powers. Taxpayers deserve to have a say before hav- ing any major new taxes imposed upon them. We petition the Legislative Assembly of anitoba as follows: M To request that the Premier of Manitoba (Mr. Doer) notify the City of Winnipeg that the provincial government will not allow an increase of the sales tax without a referendum being held as required under balanced budget legislation.

This petition is signed by Donna Ross, Elaine Ranville, Norma Johnson and others.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 335 Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Red River Floodway Expansion Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for the petition: The provincial and federal governments have indicated they will proceed with a multi- million expansion of the Red River Floodway.

The provincial government says it is "com- mitted to ensuring that any remaining issues from 1997 are addressed and that residents are compensated for any artificial flooding." (Province of Manitoba press release, December 9, 2002).

The provincial government announced it would introduce "flood compensation legislation to give citizens the right to financial compen- sation if they experience artificial flooding due to floodway operation, including residents living south of the floodway." (Province of Manitoba press release, December 9, 2002) Manitobans living both south and north of the Red River Floodway have raised concerns about the potential negative socio-economic im- pacts of an expanded floodway, such as the pro- spect of artificial flooding and associated losses.

Manitobans are concerned about the ade- quacy of compensation programs for past and future floods. Manitobans have also asked whether suf- ficient consideration has been given to all the proposed flood mitigation initiatives to ensure the most viable option will be used. Groups such as the Ritchot Concerned Citi- zens have expressed concern about their inability to get information about the past and future operation of the floodway, among other issues related to governments' handling of the flooding in the Red River Valley. There are a number of unresolved claims related to the 1997 flood of the century.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: Mr. Speaker, to request that the provincial and federal governments consider settling out- standing claims from the 1997 flood of the cen- tury before proceeding with a major expansion of the Red River Floodway. To request that the provincial government, Mr. Speaker, consider en suring that flood com- pensation mechanisms are evaluated, updated and enacted before a major expansion of the Red River Floodway proceeds.

To request that the provincial government consider clarifying outstanding flood-related is- sues, such as the threat of artificial flooding and the public's desire for clarification with respect to the floodway operating rules. Signed by Nicholas Zubrack, Rob Crowley, Fabrice Barbanchon and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with the Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. PRESENTING REPORTS BY S TANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development First Report Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, would you see if there is leave for the First Report of the Standing Com- mittee on Social and Economic Development to be presented today? Mr. Speaker: Is there leave for the First Report of the Standing Committee on Social and Eco- nomic Development to be presented today? Agreed] [ * (13:40) Ms. Marilyn Brick (Chairperson): I wish to present the First Report of the Committee on Social and Economic Development. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic

336 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Development presents the following as its First Report: Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its First Report. Meetings: Your committee met on Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 6:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters Under Consideration: Bill 2–The Biofuels and Gasoline Tax Amend- ment Act;

Loi sur les biocarburants et modifiant la Loi de la taxe sur l'essence Bill 3–The Helen Betty Osborne Memorial Foundation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Fondation commémorative Helen Betty Osborne Bill 4–The Employment Standards Code Amend- ment Act; Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi Bill 202–The Nellie McClung Foundation Act;

Loi sur la Fondation Nellie McClung Membership Resignations / Elections: Your committee elected Ms. Brick as the Chair- person. Your committee elected Mr. Schellenberg as the Vice-Chairperson. Substitutions received prior to commencement of meeting: Ms. Brick for Mr. Caldwell Hon. Mr. Mackintosh for Ms. Irvin-Ross Hon. Mr. Sale for Hon. Ms. McGifford Hon. Ms. Allan for Hon. Ms. Melnick Ms. Irvin-Ross for Mr. Martindale Mr. Murray for Mr. Cummings Mr. Schuler for Mr. Maguire Mrs. Rowat for Mr. Tweed Public Presentations: Your committee heard 14 presentations on Bill 2–The Biofuels and Gasoline Tax Amendment Act;

Loi sur les biocarburants et modifiant la Loi de la taxe sur l'essence, from the following individuals and/or organizations: Kenneth Sigurdson, National Farmers Union Bob McNabb, Town of Minnedosa Spencer Reavie, Pelly Trail Economic Develop- ment Ted Stoner, The Canadian Petroleum Institute Randy Bialek, Agassiz Agri-ventures Roger Wilson, Fox Warren Ethanol Agency Fred Tait, Private Citizen Bill Wilkerson, Canadian Renewable Fuels As- sociation David Rolfe, Keystone Agricultural Producers Rick Verspeek on behalf of Bob McCallum, Turtle Mountain Sustainable Ventures Edward Hiebert, Private Citizen John Pittman, Manitoba Chamber of Commerce Chris Lorenc, Manitoba Heavy Construction Association Glen Koroluk, Private Citizen Your committee heard four presentations on Bill 202–The Nellie McClung Foundation Act;

Loi sur la Fondation Nellie McClung, from the following organizations: Gail Andrews, Manitoba Womens Liberal Asso- ciation Mary Pankiw, Local Council of Women of Win- nipeg Elizabeth Fleming, Provincial Council of Wo- men of Manitoba Beverley Parks, The Liberal Party of Manitoba Written Submissions: Your committee received one written submission for Bill 2–The Biofuels and Gasoline Tax Amendment Act;

Loi sur les biocarburants et modifiant la Loi de la taxe sur l'essence, from the following organization: Gilbert Swan, Town of The Pas Your committee received one written submission for Bill 4–The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act; Loi modifiant le Code des

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 337 normes d'emploi, from the following organi- ation: z Rob Hilliard, Manitoba Federation of Labour Bills Considered and Reported: Bill 2–The Biofuels and Gasoline Tax Amend- ment Act;

Loi sur les biocarburants et modifiant la Loi de la taxe sur l'essence Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Bill 3–The Helen Betty Osborne Memorial Foundation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Fondation commémorative Helen Betty Osborne Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Bill 4–The Employment Standards Code Amend- ment Act; Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi Your committee agreed to report this bill with the following amendment: THAT the proposed subsection 96.1(1), as set out in Clause 6 of the Bill, be amended by strik- ing out everything after “to pay compensation” and substituting “to the director for any loss the employee incurred as a result of the contra- vention, or reinstate the employee, or do both.” Bill 202–The Nellie McClung Foundation Act;

Loi sur la Fondation Nellie McClung Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Ms. Brick: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the statement as to fi- delity bonds in accordance with

section 20 of The Public Offices Act, as well as The Trade Practices Inquiry Act report. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 6–The Cross-Border Policing Act Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that Bill 6, The Cross-Border Policing Act;

Loi sur les services de police interter- ritoriaux, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, this bill will help facilitate police intelligence-gathering and investigations across provincial borders, parti- cularly to counter the threat of organized crime in Canada. It is the first such bill which we hope will soon be introduced in each Canadian pro- vince. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw attention of all honourable members to the loge to my right where we have with us Ms.

Becky Barrett who is the former Member for Inkster and Wellington. Also I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Lorna Minor, the presi- dent of the St. Vital Historical Society and Dorothy Mazurik, a volunteer with the St. Vital Historical Society. These visitors are the guests of the honourable Minister of Family Services and Housing (Ms. Melnick). Also in the public gallery we have from the Archwood School, 14 Grade five students under the direction of Mrs. Connie Stanley.

This school is located in the constituency of the hon- ourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger). Also in the public gallery we have from Immanuel Christian School 12 Grade 11 stu- dents under the direction of Mr. Jeff Dykstra.

338 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha). On behalf of all honourable members, I wel- come you all here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD James Driskell Case Independent Inquiry Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, while the Premier has finally found his voice and is speaking out about the Driskell case, we found it particularly troubling that he would not guarantee that an independent public inquiry would be held.

Will the Premier recognize today that, regardless of the outcome of the federal review, there is a need for an in- quiry in Manitoba to get to the bottom of what went so terribly wrong from the beginning to the present day? * (13:45) Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we have said we would use the same standard of integrity and independence to review the matter of Driskell when the conviction issues are dealt with as we did with Sophonow. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, we agree that if it is the best advice of all involved that the inquiry not proceed until the issue of Mr.

Driskell's guilt or innocence is settled, then we support that. However, what we want and I believe what Manitobans want from this Premier is a guaran- tee that there will be an independent public in- quiry called. Will he give us that guarantee today? Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, if one looks at the pro- cess that was utilized for Sophonow with a public inquiry, independent inquiry, a credible person with former Justice Cory as the indi- vidual chosen to deal with the matters that arose out of the justice syst em with the Sophonow issue in justice; I said yesterday in the House and I have said yesterday publicly, and I will say it again, we will use the same standard of integrity, independent public review, that we used for ophonow.

S The issue that is different here is there was the issue of conviction or non-conviction that was different in Sophonow than it is today on Driskell, and we must deal with that issue first. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, it is important this Premier take this process very seriously and that he give a guarantee today that he will ensure there is a public independent inquiry into this issue, that he also give Manitobans the assurance that he will not only guarantee today, that by the end of next week he will have a commissioner in place to head up this issue.

It is a very serious is- sue and Manitobans want a decision today. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we will deal with the issue of the conviction first and the issues that arise out of that matter and any other matter that deals with the issue. The systemic issues in the Justice Department in its broadest terms will be dealt with. Mr. Speaker, I do recall there was a review ordered by the Minister of Justice in the early nineties. The review was completed by Mr. Dangerfield, hardly our test of meeting an inde- pendent public review of the matters raised. Dwayne McClurg Case Sentence Length Mr.

Gerald Hawran ik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the Justice Minister promised in 1999 and again in 2003 to make our communities safer. Our communities will not be safer unless appropriate sentences are imposed for serious crimes. Last month after spending 15 months in custody, Dwayne McClurg received only six months of additional jail time for killing 20- month-old Brandon Anderson. This sentence was recommended to the judge by the Crown prosecutor in the case.

Does this Justice Minister believe that a six-month sentence for killing a young child is appropriate, and does he agree with the recommendation of his Crown prose- cutor? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Just to correct the

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 339 record which is important to be done here, there was not a six-month period of incarceration. In fact, the court took into account a pre-trial cus- tody and, Mr. Speaker, as a result of all the con- siderations, there was essentially what is recog- nized as a three-year prison term, plus two years robation. p Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, we have seen those convicted of other minor crimes receive six months, such as John Michell, who accused somebody of theft incorrectly.

An extra six months' jail time for someone convicted of mur- dering a baby is clearly unacceptable. When will this Justice Minister give clear policy direction to his employees, his Crown prosecutors, to vigorously prosecute and to de- mand real jail time for serious crimes? * (13:50) Mr. Mackintosh: Well, I will correct the record again, Mr. Speaker. This was essentially a 36- month sentence, along with two years' probation. The prosecutors looked at the background of the offender. They look at the nature of the of- fence. They look at precedent.

Indeed, from Feb- ruary 1995, there was an example here of a shak- en child and a sentence of one year, three years' probation. This was a sentence, Mr. Speaker, that the judges recognized may have been at the low end in terms of the whole range, but he said it is one which is entirely within the appropriate range. Mr. Hawranik: This minister likes to point fin- gers. He points fingers everywhere. He has run out of points on the compass.

He points fingers at the judges, he points fingers at the Criminal Code, the federal government, at previous gov- ernments, everywhere except where they should be pointed, and that is at himself. The responsibility for this lenient sentence lies solely with the minister. Since 1999, he has not given directions to his employees, his Crown prosecutors. He has not given directions to them to demand harsher penalties for serious crimes, not one memo, not one policy directive.

Will this minister commit today to provide direction to his Crown attorneys so that sen- tencing recommendations are properly given to reflect the seriousness of the crime, or will he try to deny his shortcomings as minister as he has been trying to do in the James Driskell case? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr. Speaker, first of all, there certainly are policies regarding child victim cases for the prosecutors to take those matters very seriously.

The prosecutors operate within the realm of the available evidence and the law and, indeed, at sentencing the Justice said, and I quote: I can find no reason to do anything but endorse the recommendation, and that is based on an analysis of those issues that the prose- cutors have to deal with. In terms of Mr. Driskell, Mr. Speaker, I re- mind members opposite that when the DNA evidence came back to Manitoba that was im- mediately provided to the counsel for Mr. Driskell and the Driskell team. I remind mem- bers opposite that the application for a federal review must be taken by the Driskell team.

We pleaded with them to the point of writing them nine months ago asking them to proceed. Dorothy Madden Inquest Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, Doctor Balachandra, the Chief Medical Officer, has said that it was unacceptable for Dorothy Madden to have waited in a hospital ER for six hours without ever being seen by a doc- tor. He is concerned enough about her death that he is considering calling a public inquest. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh) get in front of this issue today, do the right thing today, and call for a public inquest into the death of Dorothy Madden?

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): As was indicated yesterday in this House, Mr. Speaker, we find it unac ceptable, and measures have been put in place to deal with this issue. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, there are abso- lutely no excuses for a patient to present to an ER with chest pain, be triaged as urgent, and then not be seen by a doctor for six hours. Will the Minister of Justice do the right thing today, Mr. Speaker, and call for a public

340 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 inquest? Patients that are going to our hospital ERs need to know that th ey are safe when they go there. * (13:55) Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, an inquest already took place, the longest inquest in the history of Canada took place under Sinclair. Under Sinclair a number of methods of critical incident report- ing were asked to be put in place which included advising the family, doing a review of all the care providers and making recommendations for ollow-up. f Since Sinclair, Mr. Speaker, we have put all of those measures in pl ace.

That is what hap- pened in this case. Before the data was raised, a critical incident was taken, recommendations were put in place, recommendations were fol- lowed up. That is what we have done and con- tinue to do since Sinclair. That is what we have learned from Sinclair. There are problems. You try to solve them, and you improve them. That was the Sinclair lesson. That is what we are following. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this Minister of Health neglects to mention the number of pa- tients that are dying under his watch right now and Dorothy Madden was one of them. Dorothy Madden deserved to be cared for.

She deserved dignity. She deserved the opportunity to say goodbye to her family. Her family deserves an- swers and her family deserves closure. Will the Minister of Justice do the right thing today and call a public inquest into her death? Dorothy Madden deserved at least that as well. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, when I was the Op- position Health critic, I knew of dozens of situ- ations like this, but there was no process in place until Sinclair that said when there is a problem, you review it, you advise the family, you inter- view all the staff involved, you make recom- mendations and you improve it.

That is what we do in health now. When there is a problem, you look at the difficulties and you try to improve it. That is what happens. Mr. Speaker, the member was already em- barrassed on CJOB this morning. She does not have to be embarrassed by her comments in the House. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, not only did this happen but the system wa s put in place to do follow-up and recommendations before this even became a political issue by the member opposite. Livestock Industry Slaughter Assistance Program Mr.

Jack Penner (Emerson): The cattle pro- ducers across this nation have been asking for governments, both federal and provincial, to deal with the cull-animal situation. A week ago the federal government announced a cull-cattle slaughter program. Will the minister indicate to this House whether this province will participate in that program? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Agri- culture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, as with any other program that has been put in place to deal with BSE, we have worked in very close consultation with the cattle indus- try.

The cattle industry has indicated to us that they are not happy with the way the federal gov- ernment has developed a program, and we will continue to work with Manitoba cattle producers and other people in the industry to see whether the program works for them or not before we make a decision on how Manitoba will parti- cipate. Agricultural Policy Framework Interim Payments Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, clearly this same answer we have heard dozens of times.

On September 19, the provincial govern- ment signed on to the Agricultural Policy Frame- work under the auspices that cattle producers in this province would have money in their pocket by the end of October. It is now December 3. Can the Minister of Agriculture tell us when the cattle producers will start benefiting from the Agricultural Policy Framework that she signed on to and told farmers that they would receive a

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 341 lot of money in helping them deal with the cattle situation? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Agri- culture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, when we signed on to the Agricultural Policy Framework, we knew there were not enough provinces signed on for the normal process for payment to be made. We also knew that we asked the federal government to put some interim payments in so that cash could start to flow. The federal government is admin- istering that program. Producers have to apply.

I can tell you that not very many people have applied for the program up to this point. In fact, only 115 farmers have made application for the interim payment. Those applications are being processed but that is the number we have here in Manitoba. I would encourage more producers to make those applications in order that their money could flow under the interim process. Mr. Penner: Mr. Speaker, clearly it is an indi- cation that time after time after time this minister has said the producers would receive benefits from programs that they have announced, and time and time and time again she has broken her promise.

This is clearly an indication that the producers are skeptical enough this time around that they are hesitating to even apply for the programs. It is a waste of their time. When will this minister be honest with the farmers of this province and indicate clearly to them when the money from the APF will flow to them? When will it be? * (14:00) Ms. Wowchuk: I a m n o t s u r e i f t h e m e m b e r opposite has a hearing problem or not, but I indi- cated to him there is an interim program pay- ment and that there is information out there. Producers have to make application. Mr.

Speaker, 115 Manitobans have made application for the program. I would encourage him to talk to producers, as I do, and tell them about the program and encourage them to participate and make their application, just as the member opposite should be encouraging producers to take

part in the many other programs we have put in place to help through this BSE crisis rather than be critical. I know the Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire) took out ads in his newspaper telling them to contact him. I would ask him that he should be telling them to contact those people who administer the program. Sunrise School Division Funding Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, yesterday I tabled a letter in this House from the Sunrise School Division addressed to the Premier (Mr. Doer).

In that letter it indicated, and I quote: It was made clear from the start by the division that this money was to be supplied through a base budget allocation. Both the gov- ernment representative and the mediator ac- knowledged the need for this base budget ap- proach. Mr. Speaker, it is clear the division expected that this money was going to be built into the base budget of the school division.

My question for the Minister of Education: Will he agree today to stand by his Government's commitment to build the $428,000 into the base budget of Sunrise School Division so the taxpayers in that area are not forced to pick up the tab? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): We made a com- mitment that the division's financial needs in this area will be met, and we intend to honour that commitment. Mrs. Stefanson: That commitment this minister is talking about was to build the $428,000 into the base budget.

Is that the commitment that his Government intends to keep so that the tax- payers in the local community are not forced to pick up the tab? Mr. Bjornson: The $428,000 to which the member opposite is referring is over three years: $112,000 this year, $158,000 next year and $158,000 the year after that. We made a com- mitment. We intend to honour that commitment. We did what we had to do to get those kids back to school. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, in that letter that I referred to earlier there is a request for a meeting between the Premier and the school division, and

342 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 my question today is: Has the Premier met or one of his representatives met with the Sunrise School Division to ensure that these issues that are in dispute will be clarified so that the tax- payers in that local community will not be forced to pick up the ongoing tab as a result of this Government's decision? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker– [interjection] No. I or a representative was the question. Balanced Budget Legislation Amendments Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, the answers get weaker and weaker. Mr.

Speaker, in his spring Budget consul- tation, the Finance Minister– Mr. Speaker: Order. I would just like to remind all honourable members that the clock is ticking and we only have so much time for questions and answers, and I am sure you want to get as many questions and answers in. So I just want to remind all honourable members. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, in his pre-Budget consultations, the Finance Minister is softening Manitobans to the idea that he is going to amend the balanced budget legislation to weaken it.

De- spite increases in revenue on an annual basis of over $1.5 billion since 1999, this Finance Mini- ster has had to resort to draining Hydro and to raiding the rainy day fund in order to give the illusion of balancing his Budget. Clearly, he has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. I would ask the minister to explain to Mani- tobans how they can believe that he and his Gov- ernment are committed to balanced budget leg- islation when four of the six solutions that he gives them to restore revenue growth– Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr.

Speaker, I think action speaks louder than words. We balanced the Budget four times. The credit rating in the province of Manitoba has increased twice. Action speaks louder than words. We said that we will find a way to balance the Budget. We intend to balance the Budget while respect- ing the priorities that Manitobans have identified for us. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, the solutions this minister gives for slowing revenue rates are: in- creases in fees and taxes, managing a small defi- cit, transferring more money from the rainy day fund, suspending debt payments and two others.

Clearly four of the six solutions he has floated go contrary to the spirit and to the intent of bal- anced budget legislation. I would ask this minister if he would stand up today and commit to keeping balanced budget legislation intact. Mr. Selinger: As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, action speaks louder than words. Four years ago, members opposite were concerned about wheth- er we balanced the Budg et.

We did every year for the last four years while making critical investments in health care, while making critical investments in education, while making critical investments in infrastructure, while making criti- cal investments in the North, the rural areas and Winnipeg. All of those things we did while bal- ancing the Budget. Mr. Loewen: I would remind the minister that no less an authority than the Auditor General advises him that he has run a deficit virtually every year. In fact, what he has managed to do is force Manitoba Hydro to go out and borrow more money so he can claim he has balanced his Budget.

He has also raided the rainy day fund so it is now less than the required level according to The Fiscal Stabilization Fund Act. I would ask him to give a simple answer to the people of Manitoba, to stand up, admit that he has not balanced his Budgets and commit to the people of Manitoba that he will leave bal- anced budget legislation intact as his Premier (Mr. Doer) has promised, or is it just another empty promise from the Premier? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, it has been verified every year that we have met all the terms of the balanced budget legislation while investing in key Manitoba priorities.

We have a Healthy

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 343 Child program that has put $28 million a year into young children and families inside this pro- vince. We have expanded home care. We have put in place a palliative drug care program to allow people the dignity of going through that final period of their life with proper support and care while they are in their community. We have ramped up the number of nurses being trained in this province from 210 graduating to 680 gradu- ating. We have increased the enrolment in medi- cal school from 70 to 85 and we will take it to 100.

We have done all that while balancing the Budget. The members opposite left this province in a shambles during the period they were in office. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard). Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would like to remind all honourable members that decorum is very im- portant. We have the viewing public, and we also have our guests in the galleries who are try- ing to hear the questions.

Even our guest in the loge probably wants to hear the question, so I would ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. * (14:10) Bois des esprits Forest Protection Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speak- er, members of the environmental community are questioning the NDP government's respon- siveness to their issues with situations like Gran- ville Lake, Lake Winnipegosis and the Bois des esprits forest being handled poorly. My question is for the Minister of Family Services. There has been intense interest in the Bois des esprits forest along the Seine River in Win- nipeg.

This 80-acre forest is a wonderful ex- ample of natural river-edge forest which needs to be preserved as a heritage park for the benefit of all Manitobans. The future of this forest rests squarely with the minister. I ask the minister whether she will act to ensure that all 80 acres of the forest are preserved as a heritage park for Manitobans. Hon.

Christine Melnick (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I would like to thank the member opposite for the question, and I can assure you that my department is working with our partners, as we have in the past, for the best solution for the area arou nd the Bois des esprits area. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I understand there is a critical date for a decision by the Government which is December 31.

Many are wondering why the NDP is seemingly in bed with the devel- oper to rape the entire heritage habitat along the Bois des esprits forest, a forest which Mayor Glen Murray calls a bold visionary park, but for which the NDP government seemingly has to be dragged haltingly to the table. I would ask the Minister responsible for Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton), that is river and lake stewardship, whether his Government will be the wielder of the axe, or is the minister going to today commit to acting by December 31– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: –to save all 80 acres. Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): We are dealing with the City of Winnipeg and the people adja- cent to the area. The Minister of Housing has been working diligently on this issue, and we expect that we will have favourable partnerships on the area that the member has identified. I want to thank him for his comment that we are in bed with the developer. It has not, I do not think, happened in the last while that we were accused of that, Mr. Speaker. Lake Winnipegosis Fish Management Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.– S ome Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order.

I would like to ask the co- operation of all honourable members. I need to be able to hear the questions and the answers in case there is a breach of the rules.

344 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Mr. Gerrard: I continue my question about the water stewardship efforts, and the river and the lake stewardship efforts. I table a copy of recom- mendations from a report provided to the Gov- ernment in 1999 dealing with the Lake Win- nipegosis fishery. The report provided five rec- ommendations for action by the Government, and now, four years late r, not one of those rec- ommendations has been acted upon. Zero, zero, zero. All the Government has done is set up an- other committee.

My question to the Minister for Water Stew- ardship: Belonging to a government which pro- mised in '99 to act immediately to protect Mani- toba's lakes and rivers, why has the minister and the Government so badly let down the people of Lake Winnipegosis and region? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, I am very disap- pointed that the member opposite would cate- gorize setting up the Lake Winnipegosis board as being just another committee, because this is exactly what the people in the area have been calling for. There was a collapse in the pickerel fishery in the 1980s.

It is a ve ry difficult situation for people in the area. I want to put on the record that a simple closure without dealing with a long-term management plan, as I understand the member opposite is proposing, is not something that people in that area support, nor is it some- thing that we support. We need a comprehensive plan, Mr. Speaker, to bring Lake Winnipegosis back, not empty rhetoric from the member opposite. Disabilities Issues Office Opening Ms.

Kerri Irvin-Ross (Fort Garry): Since 1999, the Manitoba government has introduced a number of initiatives designed to improve and enhance the quality of life for all Manitobans. Today marks the opening of the province's first ever Disabilities Issues Office in recognition of December 3 as the International Day of Disabled ersons. P Can the Minister re sponsible for Persons With Disabilities please inform the House about the initiatives her department has introduced? Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister responsible for Persons With Disabilities): Mr.

Speaker, I thank the member from Fort Garry for her question, because it gives me the opportunity to inform the House of a very great event that took place this morning at 630-240 Graham Avenue. It is the central review body for all provincial departments to assess programs for persons with disabilities. This is part of our commitment to the disabled community which was reported in the strategy paper Full Citizenship, a Manitoba provincial strategy on disability in which we worked in partnership with community groups.

The Province will provide a one-time start-up grant for handi-van service under the Mobility Disadvantaged Transportation Program. Sixty- four rural communities will benefit from the program, receiving $374,000 in total in interim grants. Manitoba Housing Facilities Security Measures Mrs. Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speak- er, twice in the last 15 days an elderly Mani- toban has found themselves attacked by some- one who has entered their apartment. Thank- fully, neither 90-year-old Ann Prokipchuk, who was robbed on November 18, nor 89-year-old Lily Muth was physically harmed in the home invasions.

Emotionally, however, they and their neighbours fear for their lives and for further attacks. Both ladies, Mr. Speaker, live in complexes owned by Manitoba Housing, one at 555 Ellice Avenue and the other at 165 Donwood Drive. Can the Minister of Housing tell the House what security precautions are in place at these and other Manitoba Housing complexes? Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Thank you for the question. I would like to inform the House that we are very concerned about these incidents. We have worked in the department to ensure that security measures are being looked into.

Also, recent upgradings have occurred in these areas. If you would like I could read them individually, but I can tell you that the department is very concerned. We are wo rking with the commun- ities as well as the Winnipeg Police Service to help these people and their safety in their homes.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 345 Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, what are the security upgrades that are being considered? What is the department doing to ensure that neither lady nor anybody else that lives in those facilities are robbed or taken advantage of again? Ms. Melnick: Thank you for the question, again.

It gives me the opportunity to inform the House that at 555 Ellice, the Manitoba Housing Author- ity has recently upgraded the security system to the cost of over $11,000 by moving two existing cameras, removing two false cameras which had previously been installed by the Lions Club and adding three new cameras and a sophisticated igital recorder. d We have relocated the exterior card reader for the security card access system to allow more convenient access for tenants. We have installed an interior door push button to better facilitate across the building for individuals with disa- bilities.

We have installed a cable modulator that allows tenants who have cable service the ability to monitor the front vestibule camera and see who they are buzzing into the building, and we have provided education for the tenants on how– Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:20) Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the minister for the response, but I would also like to know if this initiative and these safety features will be put across the borders, or is this a one- time-only situation that will occur? Ms.

Melnick: Again, the department recognizes concern for people in their homes in Manitoba Housing units, and we are continually looking for ways of helping people be safer in their homes. Flooding

(1997) Disaster Assistance Claims Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, the Premier and his Government have promised they are committed to ensuring remaining issues from the flood of 1997 are addressed and residents are fully compensated. Will the Premier commit today, Mr. Speak- er, to settling all outstanding claims before ex- pansion of the floodway begins? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): We are diligently working on the claims that arose from the 1997 flood, and we are dealing with a number of out- standing claims. I think we have very few left. Having said that, Mr.

Speaker, the Interna- tional Joint Commission report identifies about a $70-million to $80-million risk for the general citizens of Manitoba. If we are not able to get a settlement with, say, one or two individuals, surely to goodness it is not the Conservative Party's view that we will not build the floodway, Mr. Speaker, to give one or two individuals a veto power. Yes, we should settle the claims from the '97 flood, Mr. Speaker, but I am shocked that the members opposite have changed their view. Mrs. Taillieu: Mr.

Speaker, we certainly rec- ognize the importance of the floodway for Win- nipeg, but there are families who have been waiting for six years for their claims to be set- tled. Will the Premier give them a special Christ- mas present and refund their deductibles before the end of this year? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Stewardship): I do think it is important for members opposite when they table petitions or raise questions in the House to be very clear in terms of their numbers, because in terms of disaster financial assistance claims, Mr. Speaker, there is one open claim out of a total of 5528 claims.

What the member is referring to, Mr. Speaker, are some residents who do not feel they should be responsible for the 10% deductible which was standard policy, was standard policy under that government, was standard policy un- der this Government, both in the Red River, in- side the city of Winnipeg, anywhere in the pro- vince of Manitoba. So they should not put on the record in- accurate information, Mr. Speaker. DFA claims

346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 there is only one remaining claim and that is before appeal with Disaster Financial Assist- ance. Kenaston Underpass Funding Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, we know that there is more than $8 million left in the Canada-Manitoba infrastructure fund. The Premier admitted this before the election, and before the election he promised that he would raise the underpass to a very high priority, this despite that he has sat on this project for over three years and done nothing. Once again, we find after the election this Premier is reneging on his promise.

I would ask the Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs (Ms. Mi hychuk) if she would commit today to ensuring that the remaining $8 million goes toward the construction of the Kenaston underpass and that it happens right away according to the Premier's promise. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): We said that the priorities on the infrastructure agreement were downtown development; the new arena, which was opposed by the members opposite of both parties; the Millennium Library; the Waterfront Drive project, Mr. Speaker, we all supported.

From that there was a fund that was left over and we said the next set of priorities on the City list, which included transit and the Kenaston un- derpass, we as a provincial government sup- ported. The City of Winnipeg supports the re- maining money going to those projects. We have not yet had sign-off from the federal govern- ment. Mr. Loewen: I understand from the City of Winnipeg that, in fact, Mr. Speaker, what the Premier is demanding is that $5 million go to- wards rapid transit, leaving a little more than $3 million for the underpass.

I would ask the mini- ster to follow through on his pre-election pro- mise and– An Honourable Member: That is not true. Mr. Loewen: Well, then get up and stand and tell the people of Manitoba today that you are prepared to spend the $8-million fund to help construct the underpass which is sorely needed. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the member's facts are wrong– Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for Fort Whyte asked a question, and I think he deserves to hear the answer. I ask the co-opera- tion of all honourable members, please. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We remain committed to the outstanding amounts going to both projects as I have indicated, not in the pro- portion that the member opposite has indicated. Secondly, the City and the mayor, in my view, also agree with that. We have not yet had sign- off from the federal minister. I just want to say to the member opposite, after 11 years of not getting the project done, we are accountable for the four years we have been in office. I am going to say to the member op- posite we have the will to get it done, not like members opposite who failed to get it done, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. Speaker's Ruling Mr. Speaker: Following the prayer on No- vember 25, 2003, the honourable Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerra rd) rose on an alleged matter of privilege. He contended that the hold- ing of an event to commemorate the procla- mation of Child and Family Services Authorities legislation for the Aboriginal community on the same afternoon when the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) spoke in the Throne Speech debate was a breach of privilege.

At the conclusion of his remarks, he moved "THAT this matter of privilege that I have raised be re- ferred to the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs." The honourable Government House leader (Mr. Mackintosh), the honourable Official Opposition House leader (Mr. Derkach), the honourable Premier (Mr. Doer) and the hon- ourable Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) also offered advice to the Chair. I took the mat- ter under advisement in order to consult the pro- cedural authorities.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 347 I thank all members for their advice to the Chair on this matter. There are two conditions that must be sat- isfied in order for the matter raised to be ruled in order as a prima facie ca se of privilege. First, was the issue raised at the earliest opportunity, and second, has sufficient evidence been pro- vided to demonstrate that the privileges of the House have been breached, in order to warrant putting the matter to the House.

Regarding the first condition, the actions complained of occurred on the afternoon of No- vember 24; however, the honourable Member for River Heights (Mr. Ge rrard) did not raise the matter until November 25. I would respectfully suggest that the matter could have been raised in the House on November 24. Regarding the second condition, whether there is sufficient evidence that the privileges of the House had been breached, it is important to determine whether parliamentary privilege has been breached in the incident complained of.

Joseph Maingot advises on page 224 of Par- liamentary Privilege in Canada , second edition, that "parliamentary privilege is concerned with the special rights of Members, not in their capa- city as ministers or as party leaders, whips or parliamentary secretaries, but strictly in their capacity as Members in their parliamentary work." Therefore, claims that privilege has been violated due to activities performed as the leader of a party are not the basis for a prima facie case of privilege.

Maingot also advises on page 99 of Parlia- mentary Privilege in Canada that in order for the privileges of the House to have been breached, the activity must involve a proceeding of Parlia- ment. This concept is supported from two rul- ings from Speaker Rocan in 1988 and one ruling from Speaker Rocan in 1991. Although debate which occurs in the legislative Chamber does constitute a proceeding of Parliament, outside events, such as a cerem ony, do not fall within the purview of a proceeding of Parliament.

I believe it is important to quote for the House comments that Speaker Parent made in 1997 in ruling on a case of privilege that came up in the Canadian House of Commons. He stated "the Chair is mindful of the multiple re- sponsibilities, duties and constituency related activities of all Members and of the importance they play in the work of every Member of Par- liament. However, my role as your Speaker is to consider only those matters that affect the parlia- mentary work of Members." I would therefore rule that there is no prima facie case of privilege.

I would, however, note for the House that the ho nourable Premier (Mr. Doer) had offered that the Government would send a letter to all persons who attended the event to advise that the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) was required to be in the Chamber for part of the afternoon to parti- cipate in the Throne Speech debate. Hopefully, this remedy will conclude the matter. Order. Rulings are very, very important. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members, lease. p Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I challenge the Speaker's ruling, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: I would like to ask the House, as you know, when challenging a ruling of the Speaker, you need the support of four members in the House. I ask the members that support the challenge of the Speaker's ruling to please rise so I can identify if there are four members that will support the challenge. Seeing none, the ruling stands. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Morden Area Foundation Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, on October 24 I had the privilege of attending the Morden Area Foundation's Third Annual Fund- raising Banquet and Auction.

This event was very successful, with many community members attending and supporting the foundation. Mr. Speaker, among the eve- ning's highlights was the presentation of two awards to local volunteers. Gwen Nedohin received the foundation's Youth Volunteer Award. She has volunteered for

348 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 many years with local organizations, including 4-H, the Corn and Apple Festival, the Morden Gymnastics Club, the Friendship Centre and the Morden Collegiate. Nedohin is extremely dedi- cated to the service of others, apparent not only in her many involvements, but also in her hum- ble acceptance of this award. Mr. Speaker, Jim Hunt was awarded the adult Outstanding Community Volunteer award.

Hunt has also spent many years serving the local community through his time and efforts with the Corn and Apple Festival, Morden's handi-van service, coaching ringette and softball teams and assisting with the Manitoba Society of Seniors Games. We are grateful to Mr. Hunt's ongoing service to so many area projects. Another highlight of the evening was Morden Town Council's first move in the crea- tion of a Town of Morden fund to which they contributed $5,000. As well, Lenore Laverty, chair of the foundation, made a presentation to the Morden Fire Department to support the pur- chase of a thermal imagi ng camera.

This is but one example of the Mo rden Area Foundation's commitment to improve the local community. Other donors at the evening event included Golden West Broadcasting and the Royal Bank of Canada. The Morden Area Foundation distri- butes funds to organizations and projects in the areas of health, recreation, culture and education. Registered charities in Morden and the sur- rounding area are welcome to apply for grants rom the foundation. f Volunteers spend co untless hours working with others and serving the community.

I would like to thank the Morden Area Foundation and the region's legion of volunteers for their on- going contributions to making Manitoba an even better place to live. Thank you. St. Vital Historical Society Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce the 10th anniversary of the St. Vital Historical Society. I would also like to congratulate the society on the honorary cer- tificate which they recently received at the Manitoba Council on Aging 2003 recognition awards. The society has greatly contributed to the constituency of St. Vital.

Over the past few years it has provided a variety of resources which has helped constituents learn about St. Vital history. Mr. Speaker, the society has printed materials regarding the history of St. Vital and surround- ing areas. Society members provide educational displays, guided tours and archives for research. In addition, they also provide a variety of educational programming. The many members are always willing to give a helping hand and are instrumental in the life of the educational centre. Much of their time is focussed on the society's newsletter, St. Vital Historian .

In addition, the society organizes theme shows during the year, including a wonderful display of athletics and thletes which I visited this summer. a The society's AGM, which I was pleased to attend in November, was also organized by these dedicated volunteers. Th eir recent award recog- nizes their work for the Seniors Resource Net- work. This network helps senior citizens gain ac- cess to activities, services, resources and history in an effort to help seniors remain as inde- pendent members of the community and also to help promote their quality of life. I would like to congratulate the members of the St.

Vital Historical Society, including two who are with us today in the Chamber, President Lorna Miner and volunteer Dorothy Mazurik, on their recent award and to thank them and recog- nize their exceptional efforts, skills and wisdom, which have improved the lives of Manitoba sen- iors and the St. Vital community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. International Day of Disabled Persons Mrs. Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speak- er, I would like to remind the House of the sig- nificance of today, the International Day of Per- sons with Disabilities.

Initially proclaimed in 1992 by the United Nations, today acts as a for- um for the promotion of greater societal under- standing of disability issues as well as the cre- ation of greater support for the rights and dignity of persons living with mental, physical or sen- sory impairments. More than a half-million individuals world- wide are living with some form of disability. As

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 349 a province, today is a day for us to evaluate how far we have come in terms of providing for the full participation, inclusion and integration of those living with disabilities. It is a day for us to recognize that no matter where we live, there are people struggling with the limitations of physical and social barriers and that we must continue to find ways to provide for greater equality of opportunities for all citizens. As a society, Canadians have made much progress in pushing for greater inclusions for persons with disabilities.

For this we have much to be proud of. Considerable achievements have been made through various initiatives in re- search, prevention and rehabilitation. In Mani- toba citizens have displayed tremendous pro- gress through the processes of integration oc- curring in our schools, workplaces and com- munities. Today I was able to attend an event or- ganized by the Council of Canadians with Disabilities which highlighted some of the gains and challenges the disability community has encountered as a result of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The event also reminded us of the role of Allan Simpson, an amazing Manitoban and disability rights activist who became Na- tional Chairman of the Council of Canadians with Disabilities and who advocates for ensuring Charter protection for Canadians with disa- bilities. There are still many barriers to overcome in order to promote greater inclusion. Full societal participation of individuals living with disa- bilities requires strong moral commitment on be- half of everyone.

This day reminds us of the im- portance of this responsibility, and the philos- ophy of self-determination today also stresses the importance of ensuring that persons with dis- abilities are given the opportunity to speak for hemselves. t Thank you, Mr. Speaker. King Buck Dance Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): It gives me great pleasure to rise in the Assembly today to tell the members of a very important event which occurred in my home community of Poplarfield this past weekend. I am referring to the 15th annual King Buck Dance which cele- brates the end of the white-tailed deer hunting season.

This event is put on by the Poplarfield Development Corporation in order to raise funds to maintain the King Buck Park and statue, and plans are underway to fa cilitate further develop- ment within the community. Past projects successfully completed by the PDC include, of course, the construction of the King Buck statue, a monument second to none in our province, and the construction of the Poplar Villa Seniors Lodge, a vital facility within our community. * (14:40) The evening was a rousing success with well over 200 people in attendance and over $3,000 raised for the community.

I regret that time does not allow me to name all the winners, but I can tell you that in true Poplarfield style a number of fine animals were harvested during the hunt. The heaviest deer weighed in at over 252 pounds dressed and the highest scoring racks were a typical head measuring over 175 inches and a non-typical head over 191 inches. There were seven entries into the provincial record books recorded, four of which were in the youth cate- gory, indicating that this important component of local tradition is being avidly picked up by the next generation.

Hunting is an important aspect in our society from many perspectives, ranging from economic development, social interaction and the promotion of healthy living. I want to commend all of those who parti- cipated in the event, both the social evening and the hunt itself. I especially want to credit those who contributed their time or money toward this endeavour. On behalf of the community of Pop- larfield, I thank all concerned for their generosity and commitment. Domestic Violence Prevention Month Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, today is the launch of Domestic Vio- lence Prevention Month, a campaign which deals with peace beginning at home. I think it is im- portant that we recognize the importance of re- ducing and eliminating domestic violence and making sure that we have peace at home.

350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Today is also the International Day for Dis- abled Persons. There are gains to be made from the integration of disabled persons in every as- pect of political, social, economic and cultural life. Manitoba Liberals believe very strongly that we need the goal of full participation and equal- ity of persons with disabilities in the social life and development of Manitoba. I will also comment briefly on the ruling to- day. I think it is– Mr. Speaker: Order. When a Speaker makes a ruling, it is not to be debated.

The only option that the member has is to challenge the ruling. [interjection] Not on a ruling of a Speaker, be- cause you would be reflecting on the Chair if you did. You still have time on your member's state- ment. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please can- vass the House to see if there is agreement to waive private members' business this Thursday morning, it is tomorro w morning from 10 till noon, and, instead, have government business called. In fact, there was a private member's opposition bill as well there. Mr.

Speaker: Is there agreement to waive pri- vate members' business this Thursday morning from 10 to 12 noon and instead have government business called? [Agreed] THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Eighth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), and the debate remains open. Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Monsieur le prési- dent, c'est un grand plaisir pour moi de me lever et de prononcer quelques mots pour le compte rendu en réponse au récent Discours du Trône. T ranslation Mr.

Speaker, it is a great pleasure for me to rise today and put a few words on the record in re- sponse to the recent Throne Speech. E nglish I would like to start out by welcoming you back, Sir, as Speaker of this Assembly. We as- sembled here know of your untiring efforts to try and bring some sort of a stability to the pro- ceedings in this Chamber. As you already know, my friend, I will do my best in trying to support you as you from time to time have to guide us through some unsettling circumstances.

Also, I would be remiss if I did not thank the staff of the Clerk's office, which also includes our Sergeant-at-Arms and his Chamber branch staff but, more specifically, Mr.

Joe Verscheure, who delivers our Hansards and our Order Papers first thing as he starts out his day, and to our pages, the interns and our caucus staff for all the work that they do in supporting our day-to-day activities inside and outside of this Chamber, and also to the individual who hides behind the glass, one John Statham, our interpreter, who does a wonderful job in assisting those of us who willingly want to speak the other official lan- uage. g I would also like to extend my personal wel- come to the new MLAs and to the new ministers who have now had a few weeks to get their feet wet and get a taste of legislative life.

I hope that it is all that you had hoped it would be as you entered into public service. J'aimerais aussi remercier ma famille et tous mes amis pour leur soutien continu. Je ne pour- rais pas faire ce travail sans vous. Et aux gens extraordinaires de la circonscription de Carman, merci encore une fois pour votre appui. T ranslation I would also like to thank my family and all my friends for their ongoing support. I could not do this work without you. To the great constituents of the Carman constituency, thank you once again for your support.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 351 English The Throne Speech was a fine example of recycling in action, as the Government revisited many promises in health care, Justice, Agricul- ture and other departments that have yet to come to fruition. As a representative for the Carman consti- tuency, which is home to many agricultural pro- ducers, I never cease to be amazed by how out of touch this Government is with the needs of our agricultural sector.

This is particularly disturbing given that Manitoba's livestock producers are facing the costliest and longest lasting disaster in recent decades, the BSE crisis. Last week's Throne Speech coincided with the six-month anniversary of the discovery of BSE in Canada. Since the discovery of BSE in May, communities have rallied around farm families to try and help see them through this crisis. Mr.

Speaker, I would just like to take a mo- ment to thank the countless communities and organizations around Manitoba that took the time this summer to follow through with beef barbecues or to serve beef at a fall supper in support of the beef industr y. Your support of the beef industry has been outstanding, and we can- not thank you enough for your commitment to seeing the livestock sector through this crisis. Unfortunately, we have not seen the same level of support for this multi million-dollar in- dustry from the Doer government.

The Govern- ment admitted in their Throne Speech that the crisis has already cost Manitoba an estimated $117 million in livestock receipts, but not until page 11 of the Throne Speech did they admit that their most immediate challenge is to, and I quote: "maintain stability in the rural economy." Frankly, Mr. Speaker, that is insulting to my constituents. Where has this Government been as 12 000 Manitoban farm families struggled? Has the Premier (Mr. Doer) been listening? Has the Min- ister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) been lis- tening? Has the minister responsible for disaster services been listening?

Do they actually rec- ognize the hurt in our communities as farmers struggle? Let us face it, it is not only farm fam- ilies who are hurting, it is also the businesses that supply and service this vital sector of our economy. When the agricultural sector suffers, the provincial economy as a whole suffers, and that is to no one's benefit. Sure, there have been a series of half-baked programs from the Doer government, a slaughter program, a feeder program and promises to in- crease slaughter capacity.

Unfortunately, they have left many producers virtually empty-hand- ed, uncertain as to how they will be able to feed their families and their cattle this winter. If the Government's highly advertised BSE programs were actually working, then the flow of calls, e- mails and letters from concerned producers would have stopped by now. Sadly, we continue to be contacted by farm families struggling to keep their heads above water during this crisis. Until this Government steps forward and concedes that its programs are not working and offers meaningful assistance to producers, loans are not what farmers need.

Farmers need a cash advance. It is not only the cattle producers who are feeling the effects from the BSE crisis. All livestock farmers have been affected. The Pro- vince of Manitoba could do more to help our farmers. The hurt in our rural communities is unlikely to subside anytime soon. * (14:50) Manitobans looking to the Throne Speech for a sense of leadership on other key issues were equally disappointed; rural infrastructure, for example. Highways and roads in southern rural Manitoba deserve attention.

I hope that the upcoming session requires that all provincial revenues raised through gas and diesel taxes are spent on highways, roads and infrastructure in rural Manitoba as well as the rest of this pro- vince. We need to ensure that rural Manitobans have proper sewer and water treatment facilities. I hope that the new Department of Water Stewardship will be able to adequately address the concerns of rural Manitobans with respect to water quality.

352 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Manitobans wanted an overhaul of the way education is funded. We have called for the com- plete removal of education taxes from residential property and farmland and full funding of the education system by the Province. This is essen- tial to creating a tax system that is fair, simple and equitable for all Manitobans, but the Doer government is not listening. Moreover, the Throne Speech contained no vision for creating jobs and opportunities. Sure, the NDP brought up the tried-and-true solutions: new hydro projects and the expansion of the Floodway.

Un tel projet, pour lequel je dois féliciter le ministre de l'Énergie (M. Sale) et le gouverne- ment, est celui de l'énergie éolienne à Saint- éon. L Parmi les statistiques sur l'énergie éolienne, je peux partager avec vous les suivantes: L'utili- sation de l'énergie éolienne connaît la croissance la plus rapide de toutes les sources d'énergie. Au début de l'an 2003 la capacité générée par l'énergie éolienne à l'échelle mondiale dépassait les 31 000 mégawatts. Un parc d'éoliennes peut générer une puissance de 50 à 200 mégawatts.

Le parc éolienne de Gaspé, qui produit 100 mégawatts, est suffisamment important pour fournir de l'électricité à 10 000 foyers, selon le Winnipeg Free Press du 5 décembre 2002. Hydro-Manitoba et certaines sociétés pri- vées ont créé des sites de contrôle à travers le sud du Manitoba afin de vérifier la vélocité du vent. Translation One such project for which I must congratulate the Minister of Energy (Mr. Sale) and the Gov- ernment is the wind-power project at St. Léon. Some of the statistics about wind energy that I can share with you are the following: Wind power is the world's fastest growing energy source.

At the beginning of 2003 worldwide wind-generated capacity exceeded 31 000 mega- watts. A wind farm can generate between 50 and 200 megawatts of power. The Gaspé wind farm, which produces 100 megawatts, is big enough to power 10 000 homes, according to the Winnipeg Free Press of December 5, 2002. Manitoba Hydro and some private corporations have placed testing sites across southern Mani- toba in order to monitor wind velocity.

English I also believe that on November 14, 2003, the Province gave the okay to a B.C. company to build Canada's largest wind power plant in southern Manitoba in the constituency of Carman at St. Léon. Seventy-five wind turbines generating approximately 99 megawatts of energy will be erected in the St. Léon area. The plant will have the potential to generate enough electricity to power 40 000 homes. This is won- derful news, especially in this time of drought, which is placing strains on Manitoba. I am proud to know that the Government of Manitoba is playing an active role in the quest to use renewable energy.

But the sad fact of the matter is that those jobs are government driven. Once those projects are completed, however worthy, the vast majority of the jobs associated with them will disappear. Le Discours du Trône n'a donné aucune in- dication que le gouvernement était prêt à re- noncer à son habitude de dépenser continuelle- ment, plutôt que de dépenser efficacement. Translation The Throne Speech gave no indication that the Government is prepared to curb its habit of con- tinual spending as opposed to effective spending.

English Ineffective spending by this Government has not eased the funding crisis facing universities. It has not slashed health care waiting lists, and it has not prevented the nursing shortages from doubling. The spending spree has not prevented shortages of medical professionals in rural and northern Manitoba and hospital closures. We saw evidence of the uncertainty in our rural communities this past September when many rural residents rallied at the Legislature in support of their rural health care facilities.

You could see the fear in their faces because they are not certain that their hospitals or their doctors will be there when they really need them.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 353 Ineffective spending by this Government has not put a stop to the rise in gang-related murders and attempted murders, and it has not run the Hells Angels out of Manitoba. It has not curbed vandalism, theft and other crimes that are all too common in communities all around Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, ineffective spending has not resulted in major improve ments in infrastructure around the province, such as sewer and water treatment plants, drainage and roads.

Drive down just about any rural road and you would probably ask if there is an adequate investment in maintaining these roads, particularly given rapid changes in the size of the trucks transport- ing grain, vegetables and other commodities over our roads. Moreover, the Throne Speech did not ad- dress infrastructure concerns such as ensuring there are adequate water supplies in our com- munities, particularly in the wake of the recent drought. Manitobans looking to the Throne Speech for evidence of a plan to grow our eco- nomy and to create jobs and opportunities for young people were also sorely disappointed.

In the health field, we find that waiting lists in Manitoba are still too long. While we may be training more nurses, they are leaving the province once they have graduated. Expanding the medical class at the University of Manitoba from 85 to 100 spaces is a step in the right direc- tion. However, there needs to be assurance that the new medical graduates will stay and practise in Manitoba, and not just in the city of Win- nipeg. Redesigning health care facilities is one way of allowing more day surgeries and to relieve pressure on acute care beds. Another way is the use of private, not-for-profit clinics.

Promotion of healthy living is key to reducing long-term medical care costs. Je suis très fier du travail accompli par le groupe de travail tripartite, créé par le premier ministre de la Province du Manitoba (M. Doer) et présidé par le nouveau ministre de la Conser- vation (M. Struthers), et de notre appui unanime à l'interdiction de l'usage du tabac à l'échelle provinciale. Translation I am very proud of the work that was done by the all-party committee, put together by the Premier of the Province of Manitoba (Mr. Doer) and chaired by the new Minister of Conservation (Mr.

Struthers), and of our unanimous support for the implementation of a province-wide smok- ing ban. English The Throne Speech failed to outline a stra- tegy to tackle our anemic job growth and the lack of confidence the business community has in the economic climate of this province. What people wanted from the Throne Speech was evi- dence of a new deal for all Manitobans. This new deal involves meaningful tax relief. It includes a vision for growing our economy so that businesses and industries would say, not only are we going to stay in Manitoba, we are going to grow here.

It involves a government with the courage to crack down on crime, to run the Hells Angels and other gangs out of town, to stop the re- volving door of justice and to ensure that Man- itobans feel safe in their communities. It in- volves a government that is less dogmatic in its administration of the heal th care system so that alternatives are examined to ensure all Mani- tobans receive access to high quality health care in a timely manner. It involves maintaining and improving this province's infrastructure, given its importance in underpinning economic growth.

Instead, the Throne Speech provided Manitobans with the same old deal from a tired administration with a credibility gap and content to watch economic growth sputter, health care waiting lists and crime stats grow and to watch our young people leave for greener pastures. Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to put on the record here and now that, as a private member, private members have an opportunity to bring forward particular legislation known to most of us as a private member's bill. There is presently a bill before the House, Bill 203, called The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Amendment Act.

Sir, I would like to advise members of this

354 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Assembly that if this bill is ever fortunate enough to see the light of day in this Chamber I, on behalf of my constituents, Sir, will be voting against such a particular bill. In finishing up, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say: Au cours des mois à venir, le caucus pro- gressiste-conservateur va continuer à obliger le gouvernement Doer à répondre de son manque de leadership face au défis et aux occasions qui se présentent à notre province.

Translation In the months ahead the Progressive Conser- vative caucus will continue to hold the Doer government accountable for its lack of lead- ership in addressing the challenges and oppo- rtunities facing this province. English Finally, Mr.

Speaker, to each and every one of you that had the opportunity to listen to these remarks, I would like to take this opportunity to wish each and every one of you a very, very merry Christmas, because as Christmas grows increasingly close, it is a time for each and every one of us to spend time with our most beautiful families that each and every one of us has the opportunity to be with. Thank you very much and have a merry Christmas. Mr.

Doug Martindale (Burrows): I am pleased to put on the record a few remarks during the Throne Speech debate, and I might point out that I was a visitor in the beautiful constituency of Carman. I attended the official opening of the Centre d'enfants St. Claude Children's Centre. The Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan) was un- able to be there that day and was attending another event in his constituency; otherwise he would have been there, but I was happy to be there representing the Minister of Family Ser- vices and Housing (Ms. Melnick) and the Government of Manitoba.

The opening of this centre was important to this community because it provided a child- care centre for children, an d, really, it is an im- portant resource for parents which means, in turn, healthier children and families, and ulti- mately a stronger community. The board and staff of the centre dese rve our thanks for their commitment to the care and education of young children. The centre was built with assistance of num- erous community volunteers and donors who are to be commended for their support.

It was a wonderful official opening with a friendly crowd of children, parents and community members. * (15:00) Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair I also want to congratulate the Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre's Clean Team Project which was awarded the Manitoba Hydro Spirit of the Earth Award on June 21 at The Forks Scotiabank Stage. The Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre has been a proven culturally relevant support and preventative service to Aboriginal families and children in the city of Winnipeg.

Their efforts and hard work have yielded tremendous results in communities such as Burrows, and, in their endeavours, they have undertaken such ventures as the Clean Team Project. The centre was awarded the Manitoba Hydro's Spirit of the Earth Award because of their co-ordination of the Clean Team Project for the North American Indigenous Games in 2002. This is an annual aw ard which recognizes the environmental achievements of Aboriginal people, in particular, those projects which pro- mote environmental awareness and recognizes the culture and heritage of Aboriginal people.

At the 2002 Indigenous Games, the Clean Team worked as ambassadors by providing litter con- trol and recycling services at sporting and recreation venues during the games. Twenty-five thousand dollars of funding was provided to Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre by the Winnipeg Foundation. With this generous grant, the centre was able to recruit 200 youth and 20 youth leaders from local inner-city programs and drop-in centres and provide them with honorariums for their work.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 355 The Clean Team Project received the award because of the positive impact of their work on the environment and because of its specific pur- pose of educating the youth, particularly inner- city youth, who must overcome significant chal- lenges in their daily lives. I would, therefore, like to thank the centre for their contribution to the community and to congratulate them and the young Clean Team members for their receipt of the Spirit of the Earth Award.

I want to congratulate the Czech-Slovak Be- nevolent Association, which celebrated its 90th anniversary on September 27, 2003. My wife and I had the honour of attending a dinner to mark this occasion. The Czech-Slovak Benev- olent Association is one of the oldest organiza- tions in Winnipeg that has the promotion of a particular culture and heritage as its primary focus. Founded in 1913, the initial purpose of the organization was to assist Czech and Slovak immigrants in making the transition to their new lives in Winnipeg.

Over time, immigration from that region has waned and the focus of the org- anization has shifted. Today, the organization focusses on passing on cultural traditions to chil- dren of Czech or Slovak heritage and to expose the general public to some of the wonderful ele- ments of the culture. The Czech-Slovak Benevolent Association has developed several programs geared towards youth, including two folk dance groups in which youth actively participate. The organization has also participated in community events.

In 2001, the association rejoined Folklorama, a long-time Winnipeg tradition which provides a great forum for cultural education of all kinds. The associ- ation's participation in Folklorama is key to its ability to raise its profile in the community. Other initiatives include publication of a quarterly magazine and the development of a Web site. Preserving cultural heritage is impor- tant, not only for those Winnipeggers of Czech or Slovak heritage, but for all of us. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, on behalf of my wife, Carol, and me, I want to thank our friends at the Czech-Slovak Benevolent Association for their wonderful hospitality and the splendid dinner, speeches and entertainment which we thorough- ly enjoyed. In Canadian history, Mr. Deputy Speaker, there have been many people who have come to Canada with the hope of finding a place where they can worship in peace without fear of perse- cution.

My wife and I were honoured to attend the 100th anniversary service of the Ukrainian Baptist Church of Winnipeg, which is a con- gregation whose founding members experienced such persecution in the Ukraine. They came to Winnipeg to find a place to live and to worship in peace. I stand here today to commemorate the history of their survival and to speak about this anniversary. In 1902, in Ukraine, the wrath of persecution began to fall upon its citizens, especially those with faith, including Baptists. In 1903, about 15 young families relocated from Ukraine.

One of these first few families was that of Ivan Shakotko and his wife. In that same year, they began the organization of the first Ukrainian Baptist Church in Winnipeg and in western Canada. Their intention was to mini- ster to the growing number of immigrants from Ukraine. In 1904, the fi rst church building was erected on the north side of the city on Burrows Avenue. In the early thirties, the congregation grew and a new church building was erected on the corner of Parr Street and Redwood Avenue, which is where their church is still located.

Since the inception of this Ukrainian Baptist Church by Shakotko, it has been filled with many dedicated leaders and followers. They have worked hard in the community by caring for children, youth and many families. For this, I would like to thank them and to congratulate them on this historic achievement of their 100th anniversary. My wife and I would like to thank the mem- bers of the Ukrainian Baptist Church for inviting us to attend their dinner and anniversary service on Sunday, October 19, 2003, both of which we thoroughly enjoyed.

Now, getting down to more specific content of the Throne Speech itself, there are so many good things in the Throne Speech that I will not

356 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 try to reiterate or address all of them, but I will hit on some things that are important to me and o my constituents. t For example, I think all of us in this caucus are proud of the fact that university enrolment in Manitoba is up by 29 percent. I believe that one of the reasons for this is that we reduced tuition by 10 percent and froze it for at least two sub- sequent years. We think that this made uni- versity education more affordable.

We have been ending the clawback of the National Child Benefit and, as a result, have re- turned nearly $14 million annually to low in- come families. You will recall that we began by removing the clawback for children from birth to age six, then from seven to twelve and starting January 1, ages 13 to 18. I do not know how many provinces have done this. I know that when the federal government increased the National Child Benefit, unfor- tunately, they made an agreement with the pro- vinces saying the provinces could do anything they wanted with the money.

So Newfoundland and New Brunswick let all families keep all the money, but Manitoba under the Filmon Tories and all the other provinces in Canada clawed the money back from the poorest of the poor and put some of it into programs for children. What we are doing is letting all families keep all of the money, because that is what is was intended for and that is where it belongs. The results have been quite startling. Not only has the income, especially of single parent families, gone up considerably, but I am sure the Member for Southdale (Mr. Reimer) remembers reading an

article in the Free Press saying that the Winnipeg Harvest food bank was the only food bank in Canada that saw its use go down in the past year, the only one in Canada, and there are hundreds in Canada. Why is that happening? That is happening because we are ending the clawback. It is be- cause we have increased the minimum wage in Manitoba every year by 25 cents. It is because we have increased the work incentive for fami- lies on employment income assistance, and we have increased the school supplies allowance for families on employment income assistance. We are also helping low-income families.

I would also like to point out that because the economy is so buoyant in Manitoba, we have the lowest level of people enrolled in employ- ment income assistance, I believe, since 1982. It has been steadily declining under our Govern- ment, and we plan to continue seeing it decline so that more people are in the paid workforce and earning income and do not have to go to food banks like Winnipeg Harvest. The Member for Southdale is not going to talk about that because his government has noth- ing to brag about in this regard. They were the government that cut welfare rates.

They were the ones that clawed back the National Child Bene- fit. They are the ones that did not increase the minimum wage except once in the year before an election, which was what they did with school divisions. They cut grants to school divisions every year except in the year before an election, and then they increased it. That was a pattern of their government. I am su re that the Member for Southdale will not talk about that because their record does not stand up to ours at all when it comes to education funding.

In fact, when it comes to education funding, we promised to increase it by the rate of inflation every year and we have done it. We have kept that promise. An Honourable Member: They sold MTS. Mr. Martindale: And they sold MTS, as my colleague points out. If it was not for the sale of MTS, they could not have balanced the budget. They robbed the people of Manitoba in order to balance the budget. An Honourable Member: They fired a thou- sand nurses. Mr. Martindale: And they fired a thousand nurses. Thank you for reminding me of that.

And they ended the program for nurses aides and the LPN program, an d they cut out the diploma nursing program and then there was a shortage of nurses. Surprise, surprise. Then they had to close beds and then there are longer waiting lists. So what did we do? We brought back the LPN program. We brought back the diploma nursing program. We are getting more nurses to the bedside, and it is making a dif- ference. We have a better health care system as a result.

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 357 The Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire) is shaking his head. I do not know why. It is all true. If he wants, he can get up and rebut me, I guess, if he gets a chance to speak. Under opportunities for youth, I would like to talk about a couple of things here because this certainly affects youth in my constituency. For example, we have a new Aboriginal education action plan to focus on increasing high school completion and building new partnerships with business. This is something that the Aboriginal community is certainly aware of.

It is important as completing high school and then getting into post-secondary education and training in order to have the skills necessary to get a job. There are many, many things that we have done under health care. It is such a long list, I do not know. I might even run out of time here before the next speaker gets up, but I will start this list anyway. * (15:10) We have a wait-list reduction plan. We are improving information services, including ex- panding health links and posting wait lists on the Web to allow patients to make choices about their wait times.

We have expanded day surgery and out-patient diagnostics to free up hospital beds. We are investing in more new diagnostic equipment in all regions. We are expanding the use of rural diagnostic equipment and operating theatres. We are stabilizing and renewing the nursing workforce. Stability in health care is coming with increases in the number of nurses and doctors, more diagnostic equipment and ma- jor capital improvements in every region. We are training more doctors. The University of Mani- toba medical class has been expanded to 100 spaces. We are training more nurses.

The total enrolment is to grow to 3000 over the next four years with added programs for rural and northern communities. We have more technologists for diagnostic equipment. We have made changes to cardiac surgery as recommended in the Koshal report. We have introduced a leading-edge gamma-knife proce- dure at the Health Sciences Centre. It is not really a knife at all. It is radiation targeted to make the use of surgery unnecessary because it is non-invasive, and it means that people are spending less time in hospital and at less ex- pense. They will be discharged the next day.

It will be saving the health care system money and more patients will get treatment for brain cancer, brain tumours and various things. [interjection] I am sorry. I am not watching the opposition whip, I am watching my whip. I do not take my orders from you. Sorry. With regard to community safety, we have been doing many good things. For example, we just announced this week the doubling of the number, well, I think it was actually during the election campaign, but we are starting to an- nounce the new Lighthouses as they open up.

The Premier was actually in Burrows consti- tuency during the election, at King Edward School, where an existing Lighthouse program is, to announce that we are doubling the number of sites. We are fulfilling that election commit- ment. If you will notice there is a pattern here, that we promise something during the election, we keep the promise after the election. We have new resources to fight gang crime, including Crown attorney positions and a Mani- toba integrated organized crime task force. We have introduced new legislation to allow civil forfeiture of profits from crime.

There is an ex- ternal review of Legal Aid. There is a reform of the Provincial Court to tackle backlogs and the remand culture, and, as I mentioned, Light- ouses. h I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Lathlin). He invited me to go on a tour of northern Manitoba. Mr. De puty Speaker, actual- ly it was, I guess, the northern part of southern Manitoba, plus Thompson. It was very enjoyable to go with the minister. I accompanied him to Dauphin, Swan River, The Pas and Thompson.

In all of those places we stopped in at friendship entres. c I remember being there with the Member for Dauphin when the Conservatives were in gov- ernment. It was after they had cut the funding to every friendship centre in Manitoba. Fourteen friendship centres lost all their funding and they had to reduce their staff. Most of them were on the brink of closing.

358 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 Mr. Deputy Speaker, I remember being there with the now-Premier and the Member for Dauphin and other members. I am sure the Member for Swan River was on that tour, and the Member for Thompson. We promised that if we formed government, we would restore the funding to friendship centres. Now, we have done that for every friendship centre in Mani- toba. It was really amazing to tour those friend- ship centres and to hear about the programs and to see their programs. They have Aboriginal Headstart. They have education classes. They have drop-in centres.

They have numerous pro- grams. In fact, the one that I was the most im- pressed with was in Swan River, where they actually manage a housing authority and they rent out their own units. They would really like to see that expanded. I think they seem to be doing a good job. It was wonderful to see the things that they are doing. One of the friendship centres has a staff of 42 people, I believe. It is amazing the variety of programs that they are providing, both to Aboriginal and non-Abori- ginal people, I should point out.

Also, when I was in Thompson, I filled in for the Minister of Family Services and Housing to do a Neighbourhoods Alive! announcement. We toured an apartment block that is being renovated. Then we went back to Wabowden and announced funding for a new child care centre in Wabowden School, and we had a tour of Wabowden. It was very , very interesting to see and hear about things that are happening in that community. We have proclaimed legislation establishing Aboriginal and Métis child welfare services. This is very important to the Aboriginal and Métis communities.

It is the first time in a long, long time that they have complete control, or will have complete control over their children. This is something that they have been wanting for decades. There have been many, many sad things that have happened to their children in the past, such as residential schools and the sixties scoop, as they call it, wh ere a lot of Aboriginal children were adopted, both in Manitoba and out of province and in the United States. There are many, many painful stories behind those adop- tions.

So this is something that is long overdue and something that was recommended in the Abori- ginal Justice Inquiry report of 1991, which the Conservative government sat on, acted on almost none of those recommendations. It took until the Government changed in 1999 for us as a gov- ernment to follow up those recommendations and to implement them. We are very pleased that that process is going ahead. Finally, I would like to speak briefly about what is happening in major cities, especially in older neighbourhoods where Neighbourhoods Alive! and housing renewal programs are mak- ing a difference.

We have renovated or built over 2000 houses in Winnipeg and Brandon. In fact, I think it is more like 2300 now. In places like the William Whyte neighbourhood in the North End of Winnipeg, it certainly is making a difference, because property values have gone up 60 per- cent. During the decade of neglect, during the dark, lean years of the Filmon government, housing prices went down. I was one of the victims of that. I lost $11,000 in assessed value of my house when I moved. In this area just south of where I used to live, now property values have gone up 60 percent.

So our in- vestment in housing, which was the first investment since 1993–the former Minister of Urban Affairs, the Mini ster responsible for Housing, will remember that in 1993, when the federal government cut ou t all funding for social housing– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I cannot hear the member who is speaking, please. Mr. Martindale: Thank you for your timely intervention, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Member for Sout hdale (Mr.

Reimer), because he was a minister, will remember that as soon as the federal government cut out all fund- ing for social housing, the provincial Conserva- tive government did the same thing. As a result, from 1993 to 1999, there was no new housing renovated or built in Winnipeg or in Manitoba. It took a change in government and the City to put money on the table. I believe it is $18 million or $19 million, and the federal government, cost- shared by the provincial government, $50

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 359 million for a total of almost $70 million to be spent over five years in Winnipeg, Brandon and Thompson to renovate or build new housing. It is making a difference. I really regret that I have run out of time because I could talk about housing for a long time and about the difference that we are making in urban renewal, but I know that somebody else is very anxious to speak, so I will conclude. Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, in all the times that I have ever got up to talk on the Throne Speech, I have always had the distinct pleasure of speaking after either the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) or the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux). What it does is it just sort of pumps me up. I hear their time-worn rhetoric of social dogma and all the things that they get pumped up with from their spinners, and they bring it in here and spout it off as if this is gospel–both members. I find it is ironic that I have always had to get up after them and correct the record.

I am here to correct th e record, but, firs tly, I do want to congratulate all the members that have come back to the Chamber, the new members and the pages. I would like to congratulate Mr. Speaker for coming back as the referee of the House, if you want to say. Like I say, all the members that have come back to join the Second Session of the Thirty-eighth Legislature.

I would like to thank Hansard for their diligence in their work in recording all the efforts that come forth through all these wise words that we put on record as we stand up and either debate the Throne Speech or debate bills, which we will be getting into also later on. I would like to pay tribute and congrat- ulations again to the new members that have come in here. Some of them have come from election right into Cabinet. I congratulate them. They will have an interesting and exciting career in Cabinet. I have had the fortune to be in the Executive Council. It is something that I hold as a very dear pleasure.

There are fond memories. They will have a lot to garner as the years progress. Unfortunately, it is only going to be the one term, but that is just the way the ball bounces. * (15:20) I would like to say a few thank-yous to the people of my constituency of Southdale. I was very fortunate to be re-elected there. I had a wonderful group of people who helped me and worked with me, my volunteers, my fundraisers, the people who put out the time, the effort and the commitment to work with me and to work on behalf of not only myself but the party to get me re-elected.

I feel very hum bled and very grateful to a lot of people who spent the time and the effort to bring me back to this Chamber. Without that, I think every one of us would realize that we are not here alone. We are brought forth by a lot of people that believe in not only our phil- osophy but the individual, and they feel that they want to get involved. It is very humbling at times when you see a lot of these people coming to help you.

You say thank you, but you cannot say thank you enough to a lot of the people that help you along the way, whether it is people in your constituency and, particularly, people in your family that get you involved with politics. I am very thankful for having that opportunity to work with a lot of people in regard to getting re-elected in my con- stituency. The constituency of Southdale is now, I believe, almost the seco nd largest constituency in Manitoba. We have a tremendous amount of new growth, new housing and new development in my constituency.

I represent the area of Southdale, Island Lakes, Royalwood, Southland Park, Niakwa Park and a bit of Windsor Park that I share with the Me mber for Radisson (Mr. Jha). We do share one facility in that area, the Member for Radisson and I, and that is the Winakwa Community Centre. He and I were just there at a function on the weekend. It was quite gratifying to see the amount of volunteers and enthusiasm at that particular community club. Winakwa Community Centre is really truly unique.

They have always had a very strong base of volunteers that come out to help, not only in the community, but to help the young people in all the various sporting activities that are run through that club. I have always had a great admiration for the people that do get involved as

360 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 a volunteer in that particular club of Winakwa Community Centre. The other community centre that I represent in my area is called the Southdale Community Centre. It is one of the largest clubs in Winnipeg. It is very, very active, very progressive in its approach to helping the community. It covers a lot of other areas in that area, a lot of people that go to that community centre. It is always a pleasure to go to that area. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do have one other area that I would just like to mention. That is the area called the Prendergast Centre.

That centre, there, is the place where a lot of the seniors con- gregate for activities and events. There are quite a few day cares that work out of there. In fact, I believe one of the day care operators, Miss Grace Howard, met with the Finance Minister (Mr. Selinger) in the pre-Budget consultations. She was telling him about the Prendergast Centre. He was very supportive of the day care centres in that area and recognizing their growth.

Those are mainly the areas that I feel that I would like to mention as places where there is a fair amount of participation in my community for not only the volunteers, but the people that get involved with the very aspects of public service and volunteerism in my constituency of Southdale. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do feel that I should put some words on the record in regard to the Throne Speech that was brought in the other day. There was a fair amount of rhetoric that was brought forth.

There was a fair amount of rehashing of positions that were mentioned be- fore by the Government, not only before their election, but in their previous term in govern- ment. It is something that they seem to revel in, reinventing a lot of the wheels that they have already put in motion and just putting a new word on, a new spin on it, if you would like. I would like to mention that we are very concerned that the bala nced-budget legislation may be interpreted in a different way by this Government, the Government of the Premier (Mr. Doer).

They may be looking for ways to get around the balanced-budget legislation, or to circumvent some aspects of it. We are very concerned about that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because we feel that the Gov- ernment and the balanced budget legislation that was passed and that they have abided by in their previous term of office was something, I think, that all Manitobans recognize. You work within your budget, you work within the means that are presented to you, and you get by with what you have.

It is like anything, if you go to the grocery store, the amount of money that you budgeted for your supplies and that is what you use up. We are very concerned that there is a possibility that this balanced-budget legislation may be circumvented in some way and that we may see a change in the foreseeable future. The Budget that the Minister of Finance is working on right now, in all likelihood, will be coming down early next year, and then we will get a better sense of what the spending is and where the priorities are at that time.

The Throne Speech goes on to mention health care and how they have changed it and made it better and how the waiting lists are down and everything. Unfortunately, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have seen some tragedies in the last while in regard to the unfortunate happenings at the St. Boniface ER centre where, unfortunately, the lady passed away waiting in the ER room for are. c We have seen patients die waiting on the waiting list for cardiac surgery. We have seen people die, actually, in the waiting room waiting for service, and we have to go back to when the Premier (Mr.

Doer) ran on the campaign that he was going to correct health care with $15 million and in 60 days. A lot of people thought that this was something that he was going to stick to in that commitment and have it done. As it happens, the waiting lists are longer. The people are unfortunate. There are tragedies involved with some of the areas, and these are some of the things that, I think, we have to hold this Government accountable for. There is a fair amount of rhetoric, but there is very little in the results that are generated out of some of the efforts and the directions that they feel they should be taking.

The member across the way was talking about the clawback of the family services

December 3, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 361 allotment and how they brought it back in and everything, but he failed to mention, too, that Manitoba now has the distinction of being the child poverty capital of Canada. I think that that is something that they have to wear. That is their initiative. That is part of the statistics and some of the legacy that they are creat ing, and I can look to the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), and I know that he used to rail and flail at the Con- servative government of the time to do some- thing about it.

Now, unfortunately, it has even gotten worse, and that distinction now is seen right throughout Canada, that this is the Gov- ernment that is responsible for the child poverty. There are other things that I would like to just bring up, but, you know, mainly I wanted to talk about some of the issues in my constituency of Southdale. I will have ample opportunity, I am sure, within this session to put on the record some of the other areas in dispute that the Mem- ber for Burrows has brought up and also chal- lenge the Member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) on some of the issues that he brought up.

But I believe that there are other members who would like to say a few words, so, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with those short remarks, I will move to let other speakers have their time. Thank you. * (15:30) Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Conser- vation): I really feel badly now for standing up and cutting off that fine speech that was just occurring by the Member for Southdale (Mr. Reimer). I kind of feel li ke I forced him to cut short his remarks just before, Mr.

Deputy Speak- er, he was getting to all those good things that we have in the Throne Speech, those positive, uplifting things that our Government is doing on behalf of the people of Manitoba. So, on behalf of the Member for Southdale, who could not finish off that part of his speech, on behalf of the Member for Southdale, I will do it for him. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very pleased, very proud to be able to sit on this side of the Leg- islature and put forward a positive speech like the Speech from the Throne was, here, a number of days ago. I look forward, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, know- ing that the Member for Southdale was going to shift gears into that positive, upbeat part of his speech, if he had had the chance to do so, and, accordingly, vote in a positive way. Accord- ingly, the Member for Southdale could support our Speech from the Throne, and I look forward to seeing that when it comes time to vote. Mem- bers across may not bet on it, but I have faith in the Member for Southdale. I have confidence in that particular member's positive, bright, sunny approach to politics.

I have faith that the com- mon good of the people of Manitoba will prevail and the Member for Southdale will expose that part of his speech that was so bright and positive and affirm that with a positive vote on this speech. The Speech from the Throne, I think, serves not just the province of Manitoba well, but, in particular, it is good for the part of the province in which I live, the part of the province which I represent here in this Legislature.

I think the constituents of Dauphin-Roblin were well served by the measures that we have put forward in this Speech from the Throne, as they have been well served for the past four years. The past four years we have consulted with the constituents that live in my area, and we have acted upon the advice that we got from the constituents in my area. For example, I think that it is very timely. I think of it as very forward thinking. I think it is very useful and practical to take the issue of water and dedicate a department particularly, specifically for that so valuable and important resource as water.

No resource in our province is as important as water and nothing needs a government department more than water, in my view. The Department of Water Stewardship with its own minister will be able to take many of those issues that Manitobans think are so important in terms of water. We as a government will be in a much better position to make deci- sions that affect in a positive way the lives of the people that live in my area. Over a hundred years ago, people who set- tled in the Dauphin-Roblin area, people who

362 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 3, 2003 settled in the Parklands and throughout this pro- vince over a hundred years ago understood how important water was to life, how important it was to find a clean, safe drinking source of water. That is reflected in the decisions that we have made as a government. It is shown in the Speech from the Throne. I was very pleased to be part of a group of ministers who assembled yesterday at Beaver- lodge School in the southwest area of the city of Winnipeg.

Beaverlodge elementary school itself, part of the new school division itself a model for conservation, energy conservation, water conser- vation, a great example of the positive things that are happening in our province, a great ex- ample of how the children at that school are participating and learning about conservation ideas, conservation methods. Mr. Deputy Speak- er, I was very pleased to be there with my col- leagues the Minister for Energy, Science and Technology (Mr. Sale); the Minister of Agri- culture, Food and Rural Initiatives (Ms. Wowchuk); and the Minister for Water Steward- ship (Mr.

Ashton) to join in the announcement of an agency for now being called Manitoba Effi- ciency whose goal is to co-ordinate and promote successful, positive approaches to alternative energy, including things such as heat pumps for houses, for heating and cooling, solar ideas, wind. The Member for Southdale understands wind, I know that. I think there are a lot of very successful projects in the province of Manitoba that this agency, brand-new agency, we believe will take on and be able to really run with in the province of Manitoba. I was very pleased to help out that day at Beaverlodge School.

I think the other thing we have to consider when it comes to this Throne Speech and this Throne Speech's commitment to clean, inexpen- sive and forward thinking energy, renewable al- ternative energy, is our commitment to Hydro, our commitment to the advantages of having our Crown corporation called Manitoba Hydro be so effective in conserving energy in our province, conserving money for the people who live in our province. The Member for Southdale wants to talk to me about conservation. Well, this is it. This is an excellent idea.

This is an excellent approach that this Government has undertaken to conserve energy and to conserve the amount of money that Manitobans spent on hydro, on energy. The Conservatives before us had a perfect opportunity to show through Manitoba Hydro that they had some kind of commitment to people living in rural and northern areas of our province, but for 11 long years, Mr. Deputy Speaker, they left in place a discriminatory ap- proach to hydro rates, an approach that left northern Manitobans and rural Manitobans pay- ing higher rates than people who live in the city of Winnipeg.

This Government, through its public corpor- ation, through Manitoba Hydro, was able to pro- vide some equity. We did this. We did not just talk about it. We did this. We leveled out the rates so that all our rural and northern con- stituents, all our citizens that live outside of the city of Winnipeg can benefit from fair hydro and fair power rates. We are going further, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I think we are making some very wise decisions today.

They are reflected in this Throne Speech in terms of the generation of power so that we can not only maintain the lowest rates in all of North America, probably the world, but also take the power that we are generating and export it outside of our province, whether that be to sales south of us to the United States of America or whether that is east or west in our country. * (15:40) I just returned from the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment in which I had very good conversations with the minister repre- senting Ontario, for example, who was very pleased with the work we have been doing in terms of supplying inexpensive, reliable, clean, safe power to Ontario, who has had their prob- lems in the area of power.

We can substitute ourselves in and get rid of all those dirty, dirty old forms of energy, coal burning. We,

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-2-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 2nd hansardpdf 10.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	aa2b763b9405de7195d7f9485ecb492390b1f11a

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