Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 13 November 2013 (47th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLVII No. 28)
2013-11-13
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
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November 13, 2013 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLVII No. 28
The House met at 2:00 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today we will have members' statement from: the Member for
the District of Cape St. Francis; the Member for the District of Signal Hill
Quidi Vidi; the Member for the District of The Straits White Bay North; the
Member for the District of St. John's East; the Member for the District of St.
John's South; and the Member for the District of Burgeo La Poile.
The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate Jack and Elizabeth Hogan and
their family on the fiftieth anniversary of their business, District Drugs.
On June 17 way back in 1963, in the Town of Torbay, the doors of District
Drugs opened and an important part of the area was established.
Mr. Speaker, it is sure to be said that not many businesses have put back
into their community as District Drugs have. Whether it has been sports teams,
school trips, school fundraising, or any group or persons needing assistance,
the Hogan family was always first to come forward and help.
District Drugs has changed its appearance over the years from a small store
with an apartment at the top. Today, it is a beautiful building that houses many
different businesses including a doctor's office, a large store and pharmacy;
however, District Drugs still maintains its great service that people have
become accustomed to. They have great staff and the business continues to be
operated by family members.
On behalf of all the people in my district I would like to thank and
congratulate Jack and Elizabeth Hogan for fifty years of business in the
district, and I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating the Hogan
family for fifty years of success in business and serving the people of the
Torbay area.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to congratulate CUPE on the fiftieth anniversary. The Canadian
Union of Public Employees is Canada's largest union with over 627,000 members
across the country, and over 6,000 here in Newfoundland and Labrador.
CUPE members serve their fellow Newfoundlanders and Labradorians every day.
They work in our public system in health care, education, public housing,
provincial libraries, municipalities, the university, in child care, social
services and more.
Through their advocacy work for programs that improve the lives of everyone
in the community, such as universal child care and an improved Canada Pension
Plan, CUPE has proven that unions stand for social justice. Their commitment is
to work for a society where everyone is taken care of.
By striving for good working conditions for their members, unions like CUPE
improve working conditions for all workers. The labour rights that workers enjoy
are there because of the work of CUPE and the labour movement.
Here is to fifty years of fair representation and improvements for everyone
working in Newfoundland and Labrador.
I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating CUPE, their members, and
all workers who labour for a more fair and just world.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize Korean War Veteran, Mr. Frank Slade, who was
honoured at the 2013 Remembrance Day Ceremonies in St. Anthony deemed year of
Korean War Veterans.
Mr. Slade, Paratrooper with Royal Canadian Regiment 2nd Battalion, served in
the Korean and German wars. He participated in the only jump made by Canadians
in the Korean War defending the Pintail Bridge. He is also credited with saving
a Korean child who lost both legs and an eye in a mortar explosion. Frank
received numerous service medals, including Ambassador's Korean War Service
Medal this past Memorial Day.
Mr. Slade served eighteen years with Canadian Rangers, holding ranks as
Lieutenant and District Commander from St. Anthony to Flower's Cove.
Mr. Jamie Bussey of St. Anthony Canadian Rangers told Slade's story to Sgt.
Rude with the Gander 5th Canadian Ranger Patrol. In turn, Rude arranged Cpl
Marquardt, Cpl Sanchez-Groleau and Pte Broden Kelly 3rd Battalion, Royal
Canadian Regiment, Petawawa to march alongside Mr. Slade and present a plaque to
honour his service with the Regiment.
"It has made my week and a Remembrance Day I'll never forget", said Mr.
Slade.
I ask all hon. members to join me in recognizing the contributions of veteran
Frank Slade.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the thirty-four
young people from Gonzaga and Holy Heart High Schools who attended the ceremony
this June recognizing a big achievement in their lives.
The Duke of Edinburgh's Award is a challenging program that encourages youth
to reach their full potential in several areas: fitness, community service, and
developing skills. To receive the gold award, the highest level, they must
complete a series of outdoor challenges and spend five days and four nights away
from home working with people they have never met before.
While the award itself can only be presented by a member of the royal family,
I had the privilege of attending and speaking at a ceremony honouring these
young people and their achievement last June.
Also recognized that day were the volunteers who helped make the program the
success that it was at Gonzaga High School. Three of them Don Burrage, Don
Ryplen, and Janet Ryplen received ten-year service awards.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating these Duke
of Edinburgh Award recipients, and the parents and volunteers who helped them
get there.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to recognize the Fieldians Athletic Association boys' under
fourteen soccer team. They are the provincial champs and represented
Newfoundland and Labrador at the Club Nationals in Lethbridge, Alberta. The team
finished with a 2-2-1 record.
Our Province was represented well; the National Golden Boot Award was
presented to Emmanuel Dolo of our Province who was the top goal scorer in the
tournament with seventeen goals in five games. The National Fair Play Award was
presented to our Province as well.
The team members are: Daniel McCarthy, Evan Bursey, Stephen Haring, Seth
Bryant, Morgan Cole, Marcus Greene, Emmanuel Dolo, Matthew McCarthy, Dean
Turpin, Saul Bryant, Tristan Wawrzkow, Ryan Connors, Jordan Robbins, Thomas
Osmond, Felly Elonda, David Goudling, and Joshua Taylor; the head coach was Ian
Osmond, the assistant coach was John Acreman, and the manager was Hugo McCarthy.
I ask all members to recognize the team for making us proud.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to pay tribute to Tyler LeFrense of Isle aux Morts, who was the
recent grand prize winner of Lay's Do Us a Flavour contest.
Tyler's moose and maple syrup combination won the nation-wide contest to
develop a new flavour of Lay's potato chips. He got the idea while cooking maple
ham one day, and tried the same with moose meat.
The online and texting voting process for the favourite finalist flavour
began on July 30, 2013 and ended on October 16, 2013. Tyler's unique flavour
beat out other top entries from across Canada and he won a $50,000 grand prize
plus 1 per cent of the overall sales of the chips as long as they are sold.
Tyler is the son of Calvin and Linda LeFrense of Isle aux Morts and he has a
three-year-old daughter, Erin. He was recently elected Deputy Mayor of Isle aux
Morts and is a member of the community centre committee.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in paying
tribute to Tyler LeFrense, one of our own, who has done us all proud. Way to go,
Tyler!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I want to, at this point, acknowledge a special guest in the
gallery this evening, Major Lorne Pritchett of the Salvation Army.
Welcome to our gallery, Sir.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Ministerial Statements.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, for more than twenty years, Music Newfoundland
and Labrador has played a significant role in supporting and encouraging
musicians in this Province. On Sunday evening, I had the opportunity to attend
their 2013 awards gala in Gander, an event which was the culmination of a week
of workshops, roundtable discussions, songwriters' circles and other activities
dedicated to musical artists in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Some of the awards presented this year include The Once, as Entertainer of
the Year, while Ennis received the FACTOR Album of the Year and Canadian AV
Group of the Year. Amelia Curran received SOCAN Songwriter of the Year, and
Folk/Roots Artist/Group of the Year. Some of the genre specific awards presented
included the Idlers, as Alternative Artist or Group of the Year, and
RocketRocketShip as Pop/Rock Artist/Group of the Year.
Mr. Speaker, I had the distinguished pleasure of presenting the Lifetime
Achievement Award to Maxine Stanley of Grand Falls-Windsor at the gala awards.
Ms Stanley was honoured for a lifetime dedicated to advancing the arts,
particularly choral music, in the Province. She has conducted the Bel Canto
Singers for more than thirty years and has served on the board of directors of
numerous arts and culture-based institutions, such as the Newfoundland and
Labrador Arts Council, and The Rooms. The Lifetime Achievement Award is a
wonderful means by which we can celebrate the outstanding contributions of
leaders such as Ms Stanley who have contributed tremendously to the Newfoundland
and Labrador music community.
The amount of musical talent in Newfoundland and Labrador, both established
and emerging, is remarkable, Mr. Speaker, and opportunities to showcase this
talent, such as Music NL's conference and awards gala is certainly very
important. Music artists are provided with the opportunity to work with industry
professionals, hone their skills and learn how to successfully promote their
music. At the same time, the public is given an opportunity to get a peek at
some of our most promising rising stars which I have to say, Mr. Speaker, was
one of the things that certainly blew me away at that conference this weekend.
Mr. Speaker, our Province's music sector is an important contributor to our
cultural industries, and our government is proud to support MusicNL with
$350,000 annually. Since the launch of Creative Newfoundland and Labrador, our
government has also invested $87 million through the plan to promote culture and
heritage, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Undoubtedly, these investments have contributed to the
outstanding performances by artists of all genres and sectors within our
cultural community.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement today. We also on
this side would like to congratulate Music Newfoundland and Labrador for another
successful weekend. There is no doubt that there is a lot of great talent in
Newfoundland and Labrador. These types of events help the more experienced to
mentor the younger and the rookies coming on the scene. It is great to see that
the artists in Newfoundland and Labrador are being recognized and it is growing
on an annual basis.
Congratulations to all the winners at the awards last weekend, also to Ms
Stanley for the Lifetime Achievement. I always said before and I have said in
this House, there is no better recognition than when you are being recognized by
your fellows. To receive this award is a great achievement, and to be recognized
by your fellow artists is even greater because they understand the contribution
that you made.
To all the groups, congratulations, and I say to the government, yes, it is
great that you are putting money into this type of achievement. The minister
made the statement that these investments have contributed to the outstanding
performances of the artist. I feel that they have made some, but I think these
artists would make an outstanding performance with or without it because they
are great musicians on their own. Congratulations to all and congratulations to
the minister for presenting that award to Ms Stanley because it is well
deserved.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
Congratulations to Maxine Stanley, Ennis, RocketRocketShip, the Idlers, Amelia
Curran, The Once, MusicNL, and all the musicians who have shared their
brilliance with us.
While government congratulates itself for supporting the arts, I would remind
them that they cancelled the school Visiting Artist Program, a program that is
so vital to young people who dare to think of a career in the arts. Many of
these winners were inspired by musicians who visited their schools and have now
gone on to be visiting artists themselves.
I urge government to reinstate funding for this very important program. Bravo
to all the musicians and to MusicNL.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the Member for St. John's North have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Leave.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY: Thank you for the advance copy of the statement. I say to the
minister it is important to celebrate all of our music industry talent. There is
no question that the Cultural Connections program does expose Newfoundland and
Labrador students to music, art, culture, history and heritage. I would strongly
recommend that government reinstate funding for that program with the next
Budget.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Office of Climate
Change, Energy Efficiency and Emissions Trading.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to update this hon. House on the
progress made in implementing the 2011 Climate Change and Energy Efficiency
Action Plans.
Mr. Speaker, climate change is one of the greatest long-term challenges
facing the planet. All jurisdictions must be part of the solution, and I proud
Newfoundland and Labrador is committed to pursuing an environmental sound and
economically prudent path. These action plans are a key part of achieving this
balance.
Mr. Speaker, this year our Province is leading the country in economic
growth. We are achieving this while advancing action to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions by working with large industrial companies in the iron ore and
offshore oil sectors.
We are working to increase the energy efficiency of our homes and buildings
and now require new homes to meet energy-efficient standards. We have launched a
guide to help homeowners, builders, and municipalities make this happen.
Our government is leading by example with a policy stating all buildings
receiving provincial funding must be built sustainably. As a result, City Hall
in Corner Brook and Nalcor's new employee residence in Churchill Falls has
silver certification under the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design
rating system.
Mr. Speaker, we are playing our part to tackle climate change, but some
impacts are now unavoidable. That is why our government has worked with
researchers at Memorial University to better understand the coming changes and
we share that information with decision-makers in business and communities.
Our public awareness campaign on climate change Turn Back the Tide has
seen great success with 36,000 visits to its Web site alone, not to mention
widespread television and print ad exposure.
Mr. Speaker, this is just a brief overview of some of the important work
completed to date. I look forward to keeping you updated on the next phase of
our implementation plans.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of her statement in advance. Climate change
is real and our Province has to be prepared, and that is why adaptation planning
is so important.
The minister mentioned in her statement working with researchers at Memorial
University to better understand the coming changes and to inform
decision-making, but it was just last week that we discovered that government
was sitting on a coastal erosion report for two-and-a-half years, a report that
says 250 of our communities are at high risk of coastal erosion. On top of that,
there was no inventory work completed in Labrador, while experts tell us that
the Northern regions will be impacted the most.
Mr. Speaker, last week while I was asking the minister about coastal erosion,
she was answering with emissions. One thing you need to do in order to take
effective action on climate change is to understand climate change, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the advance copy of the statement from the minister today.
Particularly evident over the last couple of days are the effects of climate
change, of course, is the situation that is happening in the Philippines right
now. I have been in communication with the Philippine community here and they
are absolutely devastated by the damage that is done over there. So we have to
be particularly aware, being a coastal nation as well, as regards to the effects
of climate change.
I would also like to tell the minister that she also has some other issues
that are coming upfront, namely fracking. Fracking has to do with all kinds of
emissions as well. There are verging issues that are here on the government's
plate and hopefully she will deal with them on a timely basis as well, Mr.
Speaker. As well, just to remind her, too, this government also practiced a
policy whereby they cut the Residential Energy Efficiency Programming here that
cut out a lot of people from helping impact climate change.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the Member for The Straits White Bay North have
leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Leave.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.
Just a couple of suggestions; I think government should look at adopting
smart home technology like used in some European utilities where credits are
offered to encourage using appliances, like dryers at night, in periods of low
demand and to maybe see an energy efficiency program that will benefit
non-profits as well.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, government wants to debate a CETA deal this
afternoon but the Premier still has not honoured her commitment to table the
documents on the deal.
I ask the Premier: How can you expect us to debate this motion when you have
yet to release any information, which you committed to personally?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the CETA deal, one that we approach very cautiously as a
Province because we are not a great exporter beyond oil and fish. We felt we
might be in a precarious position with regard to these negotiations. Because of
the fine work of the negotiating team and the direction they receive, the CETA
negotiations have turned out to be extremely successful for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. We are very proud of that, Mr. Speaker.
In my remarks with regard to the negotiations around the CETA deal, Mr.
Speaker, I did make a commitment to table in this House our correspondence with
the federal government with regard to the negotiations of the CETA deal, and I
will keep that commitment, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. JOYCE: I say to the Premier, it is too bad we could not have it to
have an informed discussion today. The last time we took your word on something
without having the documentation it cost $200 million for the Grand Falls mill.
Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the Premier guards her precious, secret vault.
I ask the Premier: Will she tell the people of this Province how this $400
million fund will be allocated? Will it be allocated to research? How much to
marketing? Finally, how many job losses, as confirmed by the federal trades
minister but denied by the government?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have a CETA Agreement-in-principle between Canada and the
European Union which now has to be translated into legal documents and come into
effect, hopefully, within a two-year period. As part of that negotiation, Mr.
Speaker, we were also able to negotiate with the federal government a $400
million fund for our fishery.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, we cannot find any evidence of any
investment into the fishery previous to this greater than $60 million. Often
those investments were described as palliative care for a fishery that was
dying. This is a fishery that will thrive and grow because of this new
investment, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. JOYCE: I am glad our Premier finally admitted that there are no
details on this agreement because of negotiations for the next two years.
I ask the Premier; since the Premier is still keeping the terms of this deal
secret, I ask one pointed question: Under CETA, will fish that is caught off our
shores still have to be required to be landed in our Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, any fish that is offshore is regulated by the federal
government. Right now, any fish that is landed onshore will be processed
onshore.
As the Premier mentioned, CETA, in terms of the fishery, is a game changer
for us. It is a $400 million package that for a billion dollar industry it is
unprecedented. For a billion dollar industry we are going to invest $400
million. The federal government and the Province, this Party, this government
believes in it. We are not sure what the other sides believe in, but we believe
in the fishery of Newfoundland and Labrador and the opportunities.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The federal Finance minister said yesterday that Ottawa is open to discussing
a potential sale of their 8.5 per cent Hibernia share. This is welcomed news to
this side of the House.
So I ask the Premier: Can you provide any further details on this, such as
the status of the talks with the federal government and what would be the price
range for this potential sale?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this government has stated publicly a number of times, and in
this House a number of times, that we are very interested in purchasing the
equity stake that is held by the federal government. In fact, we have made
several bids for the stake. The negotiations were not successful up to this
point.
We are very glad to hear the Finance Minister say they are prepared to open
discussions again. We will enter into that discussion. Our primary mandate, as
it is with everything else, will be to do what is in the best interests of the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Part two of the federal government's profit from Hibernia comes from the 10
per cent net profits interest. Back in 2007, the former Premier said that this
was really a royalty regime on the provincial resource and should be provincial
revenue.
I ask the Premier: Is the Province still interested in obtaining the federal
government's 10 per cent net profits interest, and is this part of this
discussion?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are interested in the whole package or part of the package,
whatever the federal government is prepared to put on the table, if it is at
fair market value. So the product has to be valuated properly in the same way
that these kinds of things are done throughout the industry. If the price is
fair and the return is going to be good for the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, we are very interested.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is now clear that, under the Muskrat Falls Project, Nalcor plans to build
more wind and more hydro plants in our Province to satisfy the needs of Nova
Scotia.
I ask the Premier: Why are these additional plans not reviewed by your
consultant Manitoba Hydro as part of the Muskrat Falls Project?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, building more wind and small hydro is not a part
of the agreements with Nova Scotia. Nalcor has always stated that we are going
to develop Muskrat Falls for the interest of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
We are going to have an opportunity to have a least-cost option and to lower the
utility rates in this Province, but at the same time we are going to have excess
power that we are going to be able to sell and make money for the people of the
Province.
I suspect from the continuous questioning, Mr. Speaker, they would prefer we
just flow that and not deal with Nova Scotia. Let the water flow. We are going
to sell that excess power to Nova Scotia. Nalcor has always said and we believe
that when we get to a point in this Province where we use all of our energy, we
use it for industrial development, commercial needs as well as our residential
needs, we will build more. We will do what we have to do because it is for the
best interests of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: I ask the minister the question; you just said it was for the
best interests of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Do you plan to build more wind power and more hydro plants to meet the
condition in the UARB that has been said in the media already? Will you build
those plants?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, we are not entering into contracts or making
agreements that we cannot keep. We know that we have a firm power supply to meet
the needs of the people of the Province. We know we have excess power that we
can recall at any time but we are going to sell and make money for the Province.
Mr. Speaker, beyond that we have non-firm power which, due to accumulation of
rain and snow in this Province, we are going to have excess power. Power which
we want to sell to make money; power which our critics in the Opposition said
there is no market for. There is a market. The market happened to be in Nova
Scotia, Mr. Speaker. They want access to it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, we are going to sell that power; we have that
power. The only way we are not going to have it is if it does not rain or snow
for twenty-four years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: I will tell you about excess power. The minister has said that
building additional plants will only be required if the capacity at Muskrat
Falls is used. The minister's own mining report says that all the capacity at
Muskrat Falls will be needed by when 2020.
I ask the minister: Do you still believe your own mining report that was just
released last year, or are you giving up on the mining industry in Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, what we are developing there are two
fundamental principles; it is about Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and our
needs, and we are committed to meet that need; secondly, that we are not
subsidizing power going into Nova Scotia. We are not building power at the
expense of Newfoundland and Labrador and send it into Nova Scotia for free.
What we are committing to is that we will meet the needs of this Province. We
believe through Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, we can do that, and any excess power
we will sell and enter into agreements to make money for the Province.
We retain the right to recall the power, to use the power as we need it, Mr.
Speaker. I can tell you, it is going to be a great day in this Province if we
get to the point where we have to use all of our power and have to create more.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, on May 29, 2013 the former Minister of
Fisheries said that his government had conducted investigations into forty on
land aquaculture sites and they proved to be uneconomically viable. I did an
ATIPP request just to check the facts of the minister, and the deputy minister
came back in August and said they had done no such research.
Yesterday, the former minister again repeated what he had said in May, that
they had done research and (inaudible) that they were not economically viable.
I ask the current Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: Has your government
done any research into onshore aquaculture to determine economic viability; and,
if so, will you provide us with those reports?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on land aquaculture, we have done some analysis in terms of the
cost of that, in terms of energy, in terms of growing those fish in pens on
land. We have known from other jurisdictions and around the world some
discussions on that. It is not economically viable.
We know the industry we have on the South Coast and how it is growing. It was
$110 million two years ago, $120 million last year; this year, it is expected to
be $180 million. It is a growing industry; 1,000 people employed. That is not
including the supply chain that supplies that industry. It is an industry that
is working, it is growing on the South Coast, it is in rural Newfoundland and
Labrador, we support it and we are going to continue to grow it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, if the minister has done any such research,
then I will ask him to supply the results of that research.
In May 2013 the Province of Nova Scotia put in place a regulatory panel
headed by two environmental law experts to balance the opposing interests in
aquaculture and to ensure their province has a more environmentally, socially,
and economically sustainable aquaculture industry.
I ask the minister: Will his government show similar leadership and appoint
an independent panel to help government do what is best for our Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, over the last number of years, we continue to
grow our industry. We are moving forward with a bay management plan now. We have
consulted with industry, with the industry groups. We have gone back to them
with the details of that. We expect to have that signed off later in the year.
In addition, in 2010 I believe, the Veterinary College in Prince Edward
Island did an evaluation of the protocols for biosecurity, compared New
Brunswick, British Columbia, Newfoundland and Labrador and found Newfoundland
and Labrador certainly led the way in biosecurity.
Together, we are working with industry, working with the players, continuing
to build an industry in the Province that is leading the way. We are proud of
it, it is doing well, and we are going to continue to do it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, the RNC is concerned about rising violence
in the St. John's area, with many of the recent homicides as a result of
domestic violence. Budget 2013 cut the Family Violence Intervention Court. The
Minister of Justice called it a dollar-and-cents decision and not a priority
with the Budget.
I ask the minister: Given the RNC's concerns, will you re-establish the
Family Violence Intervention Court?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Everyone in this House takes very seriously the work that our police force do
in the administration of justice in this Province the RNC and the RCMP.
Mr. Speaker, we have indicated to police Chief Johnston, and I know with the
Commissioner of the RCMP as well I know the Minister of Justice meets with
them periodically to ensure that they have all the resources they need to carry
out their duties.
Mr. Speaker, since 2004 this government has put $920 million into policing in
this Province
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: including an additional 144 police officers, an
additional forty-eight support staff, and we will continue to work with the
police to ensure that they have the resources they need (inaudible)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I would say, actually, the funding to the
RCMP was cut by over $2 million last year.
We also know the rise in violent crime is related to addictions issues. The
2011 PC Bluebook committed to establishing a drug treatment court. Two years
later, no funds have been allocated to this desperately needed court.
So I ask the minister: When will you implement this much needed service for
the people with addictions?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, no government in the history of this Province
has put more money into the administration of justice in this Province, and all
aspects of the system.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: We started off when we came into office and we found the
justice system in an absolute mess. We had to start off with policing, we had to
add prosecutors, we had to add Legal Aid lawyers, and we had to improve Victim
Services and probation. Mr. Speaker, we have done that, the facts speak for
themselves, and we will continue to do so.
Just last week, I think, a new joint police force was set up in Central
Newfoundland that will improve investigation of serious crime in this Province.
Mr. Speaker, we are awaiting now reports from Leigh DesRoches on the Sheriff's
Office, and John Rorke on the Legal Aid, so that we will continue to put more
services and more resources to enhance the administration of justice in
Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess that is no to both questions.
On June 20, 2012 in this House the Minister of Health and Community Services
said they were very close to finalizing a paid family caregiver program, and
that it would be announced very, very soon. That was seventeen months ago.
I ask the minister: Will you announce details on the paid family caregiver
pilot project by Christmas of this year?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today's announcement on a new ferry is good news for Fogo and Change Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. OSBORNE: However, Mr. Speaker, the announcement falls short of
government's replacement strategy, which envisioned ten ferries built in
Newfoundland and Labrador. We have seen large-scale projects at Bull Arm for the
oil industry where components were built right here.
Why did government not ensure that components of these ferries would be built
in Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It certainly is a great day for the ferry system in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Mr. Speaker, when we were making the choices as to where the
ferry would be built there were four things we took into consideration: number
one was capacity, number two time frames, number three was the price, of course,
and number four was technology. Damen Shipyards came in acing all four of those
components.
We looked at having the ships built in Canada, or components of, and the
price factor went up quite a bit. In negotiating with Damen, what we have done
now is we have secured a new company that wants to come into Atlantic Canada,
specifically Newfoundland and Labrador, to open an industry and to build new
industry in
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Is the minister saying they are going to open a shipyard here?
Mr. Speaker, we have developed a very skilled workforce, building components
for oil platforms. Damen shipbuilding has confirmed that the ferry will be built
in the Netherlands or Romania. There are still six months before the engineering
work is complete. You still have time, I say to the minister, to ensure that
Damen shipbuilding uses all available provincial resources when constructing
these ferries, including having components build right here.
Will you ensure they do that?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, and if the member opposite had listened
carefully to what the representative from Damen Shipyards commented today, they
are very interested in increasing their capacity in Newfoundland and Labrador
and working with Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to ensure that in the future
components of the ships and future ships will be built here in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS DEMPSTER: Mr. Speaker, we are still waiting for the RFP for
replacement of two Labrador ferries, the Apollo and the Northern
Ranger . Today's announcement of two Island-based vessels with delivery dates
of 2015 and 2016 comes after a lengthy RFP process.
I ask the minister: Can you also guarantee the people of Labrador two new
replacement vessels for the Apollo and the Northern Ranger by 2016
as committed?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, shame on the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair for
separating Newfoundland and Labrador. Many of us on this side of government have
been too long trying to make sure that it is recognized as one Province,
Newfoundland and Labrador; so shame on the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au
Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. MCGRATH: Mr. Speaker, we are working very hard on working on the RFP
to have the ferries replaced in Labrador. Right now, we are hoping that by 2016
those ferries will be replaced.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS DEMPSTER: Mr. Speaker, I must watch the news too much and all the talk
of the Island owning Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, traffic on the Apollo has already exceeded capacity, and
based on the past two seasons the reliability of the Northern Ranger is
very poor.
I ask the minister: Knowing that 2016 is no longer realistic for two new
replacement vessels, what contingency plan is in place to ensure Labrador has
the same quality of service as the Island, since we are the same Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as I have stated to the member opposite in the past few days
here in the House of Assembly, we are working diligently to have an RFP out at
the end of this year, and we do have a contingency plan in place. Perhaps the
Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair should consider the $450 million that
was invested into the Trans-Labrador Highway by this government to improve
transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS DEMPSTER: Mr. Speaker, Nalcor, contractors, and the unions are all
giving different stories on why Newfoundlanders and Labradorians cannot get work
at Muskrat Falls.
I ask the Premier: Why is there no consistency in hiring on this project, and
who has the ultimate responsibility to ensure that the benefit plan is followed?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, consistency is something we should all
strive for, particularly in this House.
Last week, Mr. Speaker, we heard the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair
talk about the fact that people in her district could not get jobs on Muskrat
Falls, almost in the same breath she spoke about the fact that small business
could not hire people in her district because they had to compete with Muskrat
Falls for labourers and pay as high as $50 an hour, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, most recently a significant contract in millions and millions
and millions of dollars was let to a company in her district to build a project
in Forteau, the owner of which is one of her greatest supporters in Labrador.
Are you telling me he will not hire his own people in Cartwright L'Anse au
Clair?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member has time for a quick question without any
preamble.
MS DEMPSTER: I ask the Premier: When will Nalcor honour its benefits
agreements and get more people from our Province and more Labradorians working
at Muskrat Falls?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier for a quick response.
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, all benefits agreements are honoured. I am happy to say that
representatives of the Innu Nation are on the project site on a daily basis to
ensure that happens.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the CETA deal extending the patent on drugs could cost this
Province up to $20 million annually. British Columbia and Ontario already have
federal government commitments for compensation for this increased cost.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Has she received a similar promise from the
federal government to cover the added cost to the people of this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, our objective, as it is with anything that we are doing in terms
of drug costs in this Province, has to do with ensuring the lowest cost. The
federal government will compensate for any additional costs that we might
possibly incur over the next few years. There will be absolutely no ill effects
felt in this Province and we are guaranteed that until 2023.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
What are they going to do about compensation from the federal government when
it is needed, Mr. Speaker, because I really question what the minister has just
said?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I have no idea what that comment meant. I do
not know if she is questioning the provincial Government of Newfoundland and
Labrador and our integrity. I do not know if she is questioning the federal
government and their integrity, or if it is my own personal integrity. I am
really not sure what it is she is questioning.
What we have here, Mr. Speaker, is what we have learned from the federal
government regarding this particular deal, and that is there will be no ill
effects felt in this Province at all. That is guaranteed until 2023.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I am questioning the facts as they were presented. I would like to see that.
I would like to see something presented here in this House that shows that, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Seniors on fixed incomes feel the financial squeeze from
rising heating, food and housing costs which Muskrat Falls will make worse. The
CETA agreement on drugs is yet another financial hit they may face.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Does she have a plan to help seniors and
others cope with rising drug costs due to CETA, because it is going to happen?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
As noted in my speaking in the House yesterday, I noted all the investments
we have made in seniors and affordable housing in Newfoundland and Labrador to
date. As a matter of fact, one of the areas we invest in is the Rent Supplement
Program, which we have doubled over the last number of years to $8 million per
year; plus we have the REEP program as well. That is all helping seniors afford
housing in this Province and deal with the needs they encounter on a daily
basis, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
News reports indicate that the federal government has kept secret documents
which may reveal how much more people will have to pay for drugs under the CETA
deal.
I am asking the Premier: Has she obtained this information and kept it from
the general public?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would ask her to table those
documents because they are not documents that we have.
Mr. Speaker, what we have with regard to the CETA deal around patent
protection on brand name drugs is they have guaranteed us that compensation will
be paid to the provinces if need be and that that will be in place until 2023. I
do not know what she is referring to but I am asking her to table it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am asking them to table it if the federal government has given them
something.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Today in the news, Finance Minister Flaherty is stating he is
open to discussing the potential sale of the federal government's stake in
Hibernia. In 2010, Premier Williams offered to buy the 8.5 per cent share of the
oil field when the current Premier was Minister of Natural Resources.
I ask the Premier: Has she entered into negotiations to buy back the 8.5 per
cent share?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Third Party just answered her own question. We
opened negotiations with the federal government some time ago on purchasing the
shares. We were not able to arrive at an evaluation that we agreed to, Mr.
Speaker, that we felt would be in the best interest of the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. So there has been a hiatus for sure in the
discussions.
I am delighted to hear that Minister Flaherty and the federal government are
prepared to re-enter into those negotiations, Mr. Speaker. If we can get a deal
that works for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador we will be more than
happy to purchase those shares because they will be of great value to the people
of this Province, if the price is right.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Under Bill 29 proprietary information may be considered out of bounds for
public knowledge and that may include a toxic soup of fracking chemicals.
How does government plan to allow the full disclosure of fracking chemicals
under the law?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if he is talking about fracking
soup? I do not know.
Mr. Speaker, I think our commitment has been clear to the people of the
Province and to industry of where we are with hydraulic fracturing. We will do a
comprehensive internal review. We will take all of that information, we will
look at that information, analyze it in the best interests of the health and
safety of the people of the Province, in the interest of the environment of the
Province, Mr. Speaker, and I can assure you in the interest of economic
development.
When we look at all that, Mr. Speaker, that will inform our next steps in
which we can be assured that we will do some public consultation so that
collectively we have the right information, we have a balanced view, and then
decisions will be made beyond that, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East, time for a very
quick question without
preamble.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Will they come out with another act to ensure the full disclosure of fracking
chemicals or are they still going to stick with Bill 29?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources, a quick
response.
MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, it is amazing that they will connect Bill 29 to
a very open and transparent process. Obviously they are confused, Mr. Speaker.
Either they do not understand Bill 29, or they do not understand what we are
doing with hydraulic fracturing. It is a very open process, Mr. Speaker, and
when we get the information we will go public and certainly share all that with
the public.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Tabling of Documents.
Notices of Motion.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament Assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland
and Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS government has a responsibility to ensure that Internet access is
broadly available to people, have the right to be able to access the Internet in
order to exercise and enjoy their rights of freedom of expression and opinion
and other fundamental human rights; and
WHEREAS Great Brehat still remains without broadband services; and
WHEREAS residents rely on Internet services
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. MITCHELMORE: for education, business, communication and social
activity; and
WHEREAS wireless and wired technologies exist to provide broadband service to
rural communities to replace slower dial-up service;
We the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge the government to
assist providers to ensure that Great Brehat is in receipt of broadband Internet
services in Newfoundland and Labrador.
As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, I have a number of petitions here that were signed by
constituents in this community who are concerned they are not able to tap into
broadband Internet services so they can avail of and enjoy what many other
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and many Canadians can. The federal government
has passed legislation to look at making broadband accessible by year 2017.
We really need to move towards making sure that we have the plan and we are
adapting the wireless and wired technologies to make sure these smaller
communities have access to broadband, and at a reliable and acceptable speed.
Great Brehat, St. Carols, and St. Anthony Bight are all in a cluster. They are
very close to each other, so there is a great opportunity to map and provide
using wireless technology to ensure that these communities receive broadband
Internet.
So, Mr. Speaker, I will put this forward to the House and look forward to
working with the minister and with government to see that we can look at
accessing broadband for the community of Great Brehat.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS DEMPSTER: To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the
undersigned humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS Cartwright is an existing port of call for the MV Northern Ranger ;
and
WHEREAS Cartwright is connected to the Trans-Labrador Highway, providing
access to truck freight destined for the North Coast of Labrador; and
WHEREAS Cartwright would eliminate unnecessary travel and cost for freight
destined for Northern Labrador now being trucked to Happy Valley-Goose Bay; and
WHEREAS there has always been, and continues to be, commercial trade between
the South and North Coast of Labrador;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to
designate Cartwright as a shipping port for freight destined to the North Coast
of Labrador, beginning with the 2014 shipping season.
As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
It is dated November 5, 2013.
Mr. Speaker, this past season in my district has been nothing more than an
absolute royal mess. What the businesses in my district are asking for does not
even mean extra money. It is just asking for a will on the part of government to
provide a service to the people of the North Coast.
We have a boat that goes in Cartwright, yet we have businesses that are
shipping to the North Coast that have to drive past Cartwright an extra 600 or
700 kilometres on a dirty gravel road to ship out of Goose Bay. Myself, and my
colleague for Torngat, we have been inundated with calls over the past number of
months from businesses.
It is very unfortunate that the people on the North Coast are paying an extra
$600 or $700 even on a single item like a snow machine because they cannot ship
out of Cartwright. If I go into Cartwright and I am travelling to Black Tickle I
can take my four wheeler, but if I am travelling to Makkovik I cannot take my
four wheeler. There is something wrong with that. We are not asking for extra
money, just a service, Mr. Speaker.
Just the other day I received a call from people trying to do business in my
district with the North Coast doing jobs up there. They are going to Cartwright,
they are shipping their goods to Rigolet, and they are having someone take it
off, put it back on the boat and ship it to Makkovik. What a fiasco that is,
just because there is no will.
People on the Island can drive on a paved road to Lewisporte and ship to
anywhere they want on the North Coast but the people of Labrador have to drive
right to Happy Valley, and it is not good enough. I am happy to present this
petition here today for these people.
I hope that in 2014 we will see a change. A lot of times the things that we
are looking for do not require extra money, it is just smarter spending, Mr.
Speaker.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: A petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the
undersigned humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS there is no cellphone service in the Town of Trout River, which is an
enclave community in Gros Morne National Park; and
WHEREAS visitors to Gros Morne National Park, more than 100,000 annually,
expect to communicate by cellphone when they visit the park; and
WHEREAS cellphone service has become a very important aspect of every day
living for residents; and
WHEREAS cellphone service is an essential safety tool for visitors and
residents; and
WHEREAS cellphone service is essential for business development;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to partner with the private sector to extend cellphone
coverage throughout Gros Morne National Park, and the enclave community of Trout
River.
As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, Trout River just received a Tidy Towns Award for being such a
unique, interesting place. It also has a fabulous restaurant. You can go into
the restaurant in the summertime and you can read the names of visitors and
comments that they make, people like David Suzuki, prominent people from all
over Canada and the rest of the world. So they go to Trout River, they go to
Gros Morne National Park and if they try to use the cellphone to call anybody,
to call home, there is no response.
The residents of Trout River would more than gladly pay an additional fee, an
additional cost, and I have had that discussion with them that it might cost
more for their service if they were to have it. They would absolutely be
committed to pay additional costs per month on a monthly cellphone bill. The
whole town could be served with one cellphone tower and they are asking for
government to partner with the private sector and give them cellphone service.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
A petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents
humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the residents of Burgeo, Ramea, Grey River, and Franois must use
Route 480 on a regular basis for work, medical, educational and social reasons;
and
WEHREAS Route 480 is in deplorable condition, such that the shoulders
continuously wash away and there are huge potholes; and
WHEREAS the condition of the road poses a safety hazard for residents and
visitors; and
WHEREAS the Department of Transportation is responsible for maintenance and
repairs; and
WHEREAS the local division does make periodic repairs to this route but these
are only temporary patchwork and the road needs to be resurfaced;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to support
the users of Route 480 in their request to have Route 480 resurfaced.
As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Now, Mr. Speaker, again I stand up and talk about the Burgeo road which has
not been given enough attention. I did recognize yesterday that the current
Minister of Transportation did make sure that the washout that occurred back in
June has been fixed. It took us six months. Again, I give the minister credit
because when I brought it to his attention he made sure it was done. How it took
six months before that I will just say that I am glad this new minister got in
because he made sure that it was done.
Mr. Speaker, however, this road is 150 kilometres long, a lot of it is in
very, very terrible condition. We have a road that has no cell service. Again,
we are facing a safety concern. It is a deterrent to tourism. It is a deterrent
to economic development. It is a deterrent to everything. Cellphone service is
one thing, but we actually need a road that is fit to travel on.
So again, Mr. Speaker, I put this petition in and I look forward to working
with the minister.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
Private Members' Day
MR. SPEAKER: This being Private Member's Day, I now call upon the Member
for Bonavista South to introduce the motion that stands on the Order Paper.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLE: Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday I moved a resolution, seconded by the
Member for the District of Port de Grave, the following private member's
resolution:
BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House
(1) acknowledges the tremendous importance to Newfoundland and Labrador of
the terms of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement-in-principle, CETA,
between Canada and the European Union for which the provincial government
successfully advocated; and
(2) supports the decision of the federal and provincial governments to
establish a $400 million fund to improve our fishing industry's global
competitiveness to capitalize more fully on the phenomenal opportunities that
CETA will generate for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Mr. Speaker, the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement-in-principle,
CETA, reached between Canada and the European Union will bring tremendous
benefit for Newfoundlanders and Labrador, and is a significant achievement for
the people of our Province. More than 19,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
currently employed in the provincial fishing and aquaculture industry, primarily
in rural areas of the Province, such as my district, will benefit directly from
new opportunities created by CETA.
The agreement will facilitate the attraction of foreign direct investment,
which is critical to maintaining economic expansion all across economic sectors
within the Province natural resources, ocean sciences, forestry. When CETA
comes into effect, it will provide significant benefits for all Newfoundlanders
and Labradorians, particularly in the fishery. This is certainly going to be
beneficial to my District of Bonavista South, where the fishing industry is
integral to our local economy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLE: To ensure that industry is prepared to take advantage of the
opportunities presented by new market access, the provincial and federal
governments have agreed to cost-share a $400 million fishing industry transition
AN HON. MEMBER: How much?
MR. LITTLE: Four hundred million dollar fishing industry transition fund,
Mr. Speaker.
The fund will be used to invest in research and development, new marketing
initiatives, fisheries research, and enhancements to provincial fisheries
infrastructure all with the goal of improving the industries capacity to
compete globally. Working in consultation with industry, we will seize the
opportunities emerging from this Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement. We
will provide support to processors, both large and small, to help them
successfully enter new markets. We will help harvesters pursue innovations and
efficiencies with large harvesting technology. We will support the development
of new value-added products throughout Europe.
This unprecedented level of investment in Newfoundland and Labrador's fishing
sector is a game changing development, one that puts us in a tremendous position
to establish our products throughout Europe quickly while pursuing continuous
improvements in every facet of the industry.
This funding is planned to roll out when CETA comes into force, which is
expected to be 2015. This two-year period provides ample time for the provincial
government to collaborate with industry and determine the best ways to allocate
the fund to improve the global competitiveness of the provincial fishery.
The fishing industry is a $1 billion industry right now. In the coming future
we will see an infusion of $400 million investment in the fishing industry which
is substantial a $1 billion industry right now and an infusion of $400 million
going into that particular industry. This is substantial, Mr. Speaker.
These trade negotiations presented a unique opportunity to eliminate tariffs
and to address non-tariff barriers that have impeded provincial seafood products
from entering the valuable European market. This has been a goal for the
Province's fishing industry for decades, Mr. Speaker, and now this goal has been
accomplished.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLE: The elimination of tariffs will result in significant
benefits for rural communities whose fish and seafood processors have
experienced high tariffs when exporting products to the European Union.
The immediate elimination of tariffs with no restrictions, such as further
processing requirements in EU countries, will permit Newfoundland and Labrador
producers to develop new value-added seafood products which can create
additional processing employment opportunities, particularly in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador.
The industry will definitely move forward and succeed because of the
elimination of tariffs, Mr. Speaker. This will be a positive for all fishing
industry workers, such as plant workers, harvesters and processors, a win-win
situation for all those people involved in the fishing industry in Newfoundland
and Labrador.
Newfoundland and Labrador seafood processors will now be free to produce
consumer ready products that can be branded and thus marketed for greater added
value, which is another bonus, Mr. Speaker. It was critical that this Province
ensure obligations in CETA that did not undermine the policies in this Province
that are central to economic development, such as those that flow from the
Atlantic Accords or the ability to procure for the purposes of regional economic
development, these policies are not eliminated because of CETA, Mr. Speaker.
We will maintain our minimum processing requirements but we have agreed to
grant requests from licensed seafood processors wishing to sell unprocessed fish
and seafood to EU seafood processing interests. The Province elected to make
this move based on our confidence that Newfoundland and Labrador seafood
processors already hold a strong comparative advantage over the EU based seafood
processors.
Our industry will now have the level playing field it needs to grow and to
thrive. We consulted with key fishing industry interests who supported this
concession in favour of the accelerated removal of the tariffs, Mr. Speaker.
This was a great accomplishment and certainly will pay dividends in years and
years to come.
The EU is a huge market for Newfoundland and Labrador cold water shrimp and
white fish products. Provincial producers of these products will now be able to
diversify into different market segments and brand these products for the EU
marketplace. The immediate elimination of the tariff on frozen, sectioned snow
crab will open markets and provide new opportunities to diversify away from
traditional USA and Japanese markets.
This is a new market, a market that is very competitive, a market that will
help the seafood industry in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr.
Speaker. Producers in our Province will now be able to compete with Norway and
Iceland for pelagic markets in Europe, Mr. Speaker. The immediate elimination of
tariffs on flounder will provide significant opportunities as Europeans are
major consumers of flatfish products.
The EU, the European Union, with its twenty-eight member states, 500 million
people, and an annual economic activity of almost $17 trillion is the largest
and most lucrative market in the world. The average per capita consumption of
seafood is roughly three times that of North America. It is also the world's
largest important market of goods. As the knowledge-based service economy
continues to develop in Newfoundland and Labrador, it is critical that we
continue to attract foreign direct investment and expand markets for service
providers, oil, gas, and the service industry, et cetera.
CETA will not only provide preferential access for Newfoundland and Labrador
goods and service providers throughout the European market; it also means our
Province's service providers will not be placed at a competitive disadvantage
when the EU enters trade agreements with our competitors. This is because CETA
contains a most favoured nation commitment, whereby Canada will gain comparable
benefit if the EU provides better treatment to any other trading partner, such
as the US with whom they are already negotiating. Mr. Speaker, this is another
great accomplishment in CETA.
CETA includes mechanisms for dealing with non-tariff barriers which can
restrict access even when market access commitments have been achieved. For
example, standards and labelling rules can in certain circumstances act as
discriminatory barriers to trade. CETA will provide the Province with the
ability to pre-emptively question and challenge non-tariff barriers in the
European markets.
Fish and seafood is very important to the rural parts of Newfoundland and
Labrador. Our government has negotiated terms with the federal government that
provides our provincial fishing industry with unprecedented access to the
European market. For years and years the fishing industry in our Province has
been at a competitive disadvantage because of tariffs placed on our fish and
seafood entering the European market, ranging from 8 per cent to 20 per cent on
species such as shrimp, cod, and crab. Meanwhile, our competitors, such as
Greenland, Norway, and Iceland, have long enjoyed effective duty-free access.
Most noteworthy and burdensome of our industry has been the 20 per cent
tariff on cooked and peeled shrimp. It is important to note that the two most
important species for the provincial fishery at this point in time, shrimp and
crab, will be duty-free immediately upon CETA coming into effect a very
important point, Mr. Speaker. The elimination of tariffs is expected to have an
immediate impact on economic development in the rural regions of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, creating employment opportunities and supporting
market and product diversification in the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker.
Newfoundland and Labrador producers will now be able to diversify into
different market segments and brand products for the European market.
Immediately, duty-free access will be provided to the EU with over 500 million
people and an average fish consumption of over twenty-one kilograms per capita,
per year, which offers tremendous opportunity for provincial seafood producers
in this Province, Mr. Speaker.
The market is becoming increasingly conscious of food security and resource
sustainability leading to an aversion of low-cost suppliers who cannot meet food
security traceability requirements. Newfoundland and Labrador fish and seafood
producers are able to meet this demanding security, traceability, and
sustainability for the key fish and seafood products that is needed in the
European market.
Increased market access to the European Union will reduce our dependency on
current markets, which will support higher prices, as other markets, such as the
USA and Japan who compete for Newfoundland and Labrador producer supplies. This
will also result in greater returns for provincial fish and seafood. Our
government remains focused on maximizing the economic benefit for our fishery
for the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This is an excellent opportunity for the Opposition to try to help the
government get something right. That would be, in this case, the private
member's resolution they are putting forth now. The reason we have real concerns
about the government negotiating this deal is that we know we can trust their
intentions because we know they mean well, but watching this government do a
deal is like watching a child on a bicycle with training wheels out on a
four-lane highway; we know they are going to get run over. Who is driving the
truck? Stephen Harper. We know you cannot trust him.
So this is a government who has demonstrated repeated incompetence in
practically everything they have touched, and even more so in the fishery than
in any other area. The Opposition would really be remiss if we did not help the
government along a little bit with this private member's resolution.
First and foremost, this party is very much in favour of free trade, has
always been very much in favour of free trade, and will continue to be in favour
of free trade, but free trade does not mean giving away everything.
Mr. Speaker, mature economies do not give away their natural resources.
Mature economies keep their natural resources so they can develop their
economies and so they can grow their population, not what we have done under
this government, because we have seen no population growth in ten years. We have
seen population growth strategies, but a population growth strategy is not
population growth. As a matter of fact, this Province has shrunk in population
since the early 1970s, and most of those decades have been under the
administration of the party represented by the government opposite.
So when we hear this government making deals or doing things in haste, the
type of nightmare that we envision when they stumble into some sort of
negotiation with the federal government is the type of nightmare when our
Opposition Party spontaneously and automatically endorsed the Abitibi disaster
in Grand Falls. Under the promises and the commitment of the government, we
unwittingly expropriated a paper mill, and a paper mill that was not much better
than a toxic dump.
The amount of the fallout and the dollar cost to the taxpayers of this
Province has not yet been quantified, but not only did they get that part of it
wrong, they brought on a NAFTA challenge and the NAFTA challenge was because
under NAFTA this government was not permitted to expropriate an international
asset without paying compensation. Abitibi having US interests, the Abitibi
company launched a challenge under NAFTA. We were fortunate enough that the
federal government was able to come in with $135 million in a chequebook to
correct the mistake this government made in the expropriation in the first
place. It was an illegal expropriation under NAFTA.
Now we have them with another free trade agreement, CETA. They say they have
done wonderful negotiation, and we wonder have they really done wonderful
negotiation. My reservations about their ability to negotiate and the fact of
their negotiation goes right back to the very first briefing I had under CETA.
As the critic for IBRD I was entitled to and received a briefing in early 2012.
Unlike the Department of Education which does not give critics briefings, IBRD
did give a briefing. They explained really the role of the provincial government
and by that time we were in the ninth round or the eleventh round of the
negotiations. They basically sat back and watched while the federal government
negotiated.
Mr. Speaker, there is no reason to believe that they have done anything
except sit back and watch the federal government negotiate for the last two,
three, or four years and now they are expecting us to rubber-stamp this deal.
If you look at the conflicting statements by the various Ministers of
Fisheries and the Premier that the immediate past I am tempted to say the
immediate past president, but the immediate past Minister of Fisheries and then
we have the past Minister of Fisheries before that and the current Minister of
Fisheries that I have dealt with as critic in the Fisheries portfolio, they have
stood firm and steadfast and they have said repeatedly how important minimum
processing requirements are to the Province.
They are absolutely the benchmark that secures 9,000 jobs and they have waxed
eloquently and the Premier, not to be outdone by any of her ministers, said
when Nigel Wright, now the much disgraced Nigel Wright from the Prime Minister's
office, telephoned her, she said she banged down the telephone because he wanted
our minimum processing requirements, the minimum processing requirements would
be done away with and this would help the feds do the deal.
She told him absolutely not. She implied, if she did not say, that the
federal government was in fact attempting to hold the loan guarantee for Muskrat
Falls over the head of provincial government to say you must give up on your
minimum processing requirements because we want CETA. We are going to give you
the Muskrat Falls guarantee; we want a quid pro quo. The Premier used the very
words: We want a quid pro quo. She said: Absolutely not; you are not going to
get our minimum processing requirements in exchange for the loan guarantee that
you promised us in good faith. She was right.
So if minimum processing requirements were so important then and they have
been so important all along, why have they all of a sudden become celebrated
that now we have given up minimum processing requirements as one of the
inducements that we have been able to provide to the people of Canada, to be
able to enter into the CETA deal so that Europeans will have greater access to
our seafood?
Mr. Speaker, it is out of an abundance of concern about this government's
ability to negotiate and it is out of a concern that the party that they are
negotiating with, the Stephen Harper government, through the now disgraced
manager, or the principal secretary in the Prime Minister's office, Mr. Wright,
who has been now originally resigned in good faith after the $90,000 payment to
Michael Duffy, Senator Duffy, and now he has been fired from the PMO, these are
the people that our Province claims to have been dealing with and now they have
come forward and they say: Oh, we have a wonderful $400 million deal.
Well, the $400 million deal, $120 million of that is our own money. When you
negotiate a deal with somebody else, you expect that you are going to get their
money. So, the $120 million is our own money from the taxpayers of this
Province, $280 million is federal government dollar, and if you divide that by
the population of 510,000 people, it is about $549 per man, woman and child in
this Province, that this Province is going to receive from the federal
government to put into the fishery in order to secure their agreement on CETA.
Where is this money going to be allocated? Where is it going to go? Well, the
Premier had a secret briefing and in that secret briefing she included various
industry representatives, but not all of them, and she included the leadership
of the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union. We have not received any feedback as
to what they are going to receive, but the FFAW is going to get a piece of the
public money.
Industry is supposed to get some for research and also for marketing. What
the Premier has not said but the representative from the minister has said
clearly is that a certain amount of this money is for job losses, for
relocation, for people who are thrown out of work, for the most vulnerable
workers in our Province, in some of the most vulnerable towns.
This private member's resolution makes no mention whatsoever in clause 2,
it says "supports the decision of the Federal and Provincial Governments to
establish a $400 million fund to improve our fishing industry's global
competitiveness to capitalize more fully on the phenomenal opportunities that
CETA will generate for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians."
Well, in fact, we know that some of the money is earmarked for job losses;
some of the money is earmarked for relocation. Is some of this money going to be
going to plant workers who lose their businesses because of being
non-competitive under CETA?
The federal minister's representative says that some of the money to be
allocated goes to job relocation. So, if the federal government says we are
paying this amount of money for these reasons and the provincial government says
we are receiving this amount of money for different reasons, what are the people
to believe? Given the Province's very poor record in deal making with a complete
inability to demonstrate that they can do deals effectively we have seen this
week the to-ing and fro-ing of the $1,400 for the collective agreement with
their employees. When they have a lot of money and a lot of time, they have had
to go back and patch that up.
So they do not have to go back and patch this up, so the people of our
Province are not left completely in the lurch, and so that we continue to
support free trade and to give our fishing industry an opportunity to be able to
progress further, I propose the following amendment, the amendment supported by
the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
The proposed amendment says in subclause (2), before the word "supports" we
insert the words, "Subject to the Provincial Government and the Federal
Government providing further details of the CETA agreement to the people of the
province, public consultations being held regarding those details, and the CETA
agreement being finalized".
Mr. Speaker, all we are seeking with this amendment is an amendment that
recognizes the people need to be consulted in public consultations, and that we
need all of the details. Mr. Speaker, I will ask that motion, moved and
seconded, will be considered.
MR. SPEAKER: The House (inaudible) the amendment being proposed by the
Member for St. Barbe.
Recess
MR. SPEAKER: I had an opportunity to review the proposed amendment by the
Member for St. Barbe. I find that the amendment is not in order.
The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
MR. BENNETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The size of the CETA agreement is only dwarfed by how small the amount of
disclosure has been that this government has provided. We know this government
is not about disclosure. We know this government introduced the official secrets
act, which people have come to call Bill 29. This is an absolute, major concern
of the Opposition: What are they sliding past us this time?
They want us to vote in support of a feel-good private member's resolution to
try to have us all, as it were, sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya, and say
what a wonderful deal they are doing with CETA. In fact, they are not doing any
deal with CETA. The federal government is doing the CETA deal. The federal
government operated by and controlled by the Prime Minister, probably the
least-regarded Prime Minister, certainly in recent history in this Province, the
Prime Minister who people in this Province have voted against, and the same
Prime Minister this government launched an ABC campaign against only a couple of
elections ago.
Now all of a sudden they trust him absolutely. They think he has done a
wonderful deal. They have the people's rubber stamp; they are going to
rubber-stamp the deal with the European nations. This tiny Province is going to
be exposed to have our most important and historic industry, the industry that
provides food to a world, 500,000 people able to provide $1 billion worth of
food, and we are going to take a chance on this government rubber-stamping a
deal negotiated by Stephen Harper's negotiators that allows access with no
protection whatsoever for our processing sector.
Mr. Speaker, you have to wonder why? When commentators, shortly after this
deal was arrived at, said the European's would have settled for a lot less. In
contracting, when you bid too high, the contractors say you left a lot of money
on the table; you could have had a better bid.
Mr. Speaker, it is difficult to know where the federal government fell down
in negotiations that exposed this Province; or, in fact, did our Premier give up
too easily? Did our Premier simply say: well fine, we have our Muskrat deal so
we are going to let you go ahead with this?
To sweeten the pot, the half a dozen huge interests in our fishery, the same
people who have been permitted to control and corral our fishery, are the people
now who are celebrating on most high. The people in the small communities, the
people who are so dependent for small fish plants to operate, so dependent for
small open boat fisheries to operate, these are the people who are most exposed
and these are the people it seems that nobody speaks for.
I have no doubt the big players; the vertically integrated companies will do
fine. The vertically integrated companies that are both the harvesters, the
processors and the sellers, they will do absolutely fine; but what will happen
to the small players in the small communities, the 9,000 jobs that the former
Minister of Fisheries said the minimum processing requirements were designed to
protect?
Mr. Speaker, I will take my seat at this point. In absence of the amendment,
I simply cannot support this private member's resolution.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLEJOHN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I too, Mr. Speaker, watch the news at night and I am very interested in what
has been said. Outside of the Opposition critic, I have not heard a whole lot of
criticism over this CETA deal. In actual fact, Mr. Speaker, I have heard mostly
positive remarks; the majority, by far, are positive remarks.
I am pleased to stand today, Mr. Speaker, and say a few words on this motion.
I was pleased to second the motion for my hon. colleague, the Member for
Bonavista South.
Mr. Speaker, I believe this could be a great opportunity. I am going to try
over the next few minutes to outline why I believe it is a great opportunity. It
is a great opportunity to speak on an issue that is so important to my district,
the District of Port de Grave.
Mr. Speaker, the fishery has been the lifeblood of my district for hundreds
of years. It is probably the reason that all of us settled on the Port de Grave
Peninsula and in the surrounding areas. Today, in my district, there is
somewhere between seventy-five to eighty harvesters. There are three local
processors. At any given time during the crab and shrimp season, this past
season, there were at least ten different processors purchasing product off the
wharves in Port de Grave and Upper Island Cove.
Mr. Speaker, there is a significant impact of the fishery in my district that
has a significant impact on the day-to-day lives of everyone who lives in my
district. Not only the people who fish and the people who work on boats, the
people who truck, the people who have businesses, but this deal provides
opportunities.
As we go forward, Mr. Speaker I still have trouble because I think $400
million in a $1 billion industry is a significant investment. Wherever that
money is coming from, that is a significant investment. Four hundred million
dollars into our $1 billion industry, obviously, that has to be able to do some
good.
Mr. Speaker, if I could use an analogy the European Union may be what we
would consider a fish heaven. Each individual, on an average basis, consumes
twenty-one kilograms of fish product per year. That is a significant consumption
amount. There are 500 million consumers in the EU. They have a GDP of $17
trillion to spend, and it is a market that many call a luxury market. Mr.
Speaker, we could not get into it, or we have had limited access. This deal
gives us unfettered access to 500 million people and a $17 trillion investment.
By eliminating tariffs, Mr. Speaker, we get to enter this valuable market of
seafood lovers, of all kinds of species, and we can sell in there. I know the
Opposition critic talked about rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I would like to
talk about some of the things in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I believe when
you look at this deal there are opportunities for the people in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador, and there are opportunities for people to work
longer. We are experiencing some of the highest tariffs that this country ever
saw when we try to put our products into the European Union.
Mr. Speaker, what I see, I think about a couple of small processors in my
district and we talk about the value-added product, what a great opportunity for
some of those local processors in my district: Atlantic Light Seafoods and Bay
Roberts Seafoods. These people purchase and produce consumer goods, smoked
salmon, fish cakes, fish and brewis, kippers. All of this, Mr. Speaker, these
finished products, can now go into the European Union branded with the
Newfoundland and Labrador logo on it and be sold there without tariff. What an
opportunity maybe to create more employment for these small processors, people
to produce the product.
Mr. Speaker, I believe at the end of the day that some of these small
producers who are into value-added products may have the opportunity to create
employment and create great employment, not only in my district but throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, consumer-ready products are very value added. We get a very high
rate of return on consumer products. Mr. Speaker, we have to remember that if we
can open up a market and we can ship directly into that market our products, we
are going to get a very high rate of return on that investment.
Mr. Speaker, I think that is very important. The elimination of tariffs, you
have to be competitive. We cannot compete with the Icelands and Greenlands right
now, because we are tariffed to death, basically. We have a 20 per cent tariff
on shrimp. We have a 6.6 per cent tariff on lobster. We have an 8 per cent
tariff on crab. We have a 20 per cent tariff on mackerel, Mr. Speaker.
Everything that we send into the market has a tariff, which makes it
uncompetitive, Mr. Speaker. We are very much at a disadvantage.
Mr. Speaker, just on that alone, I think we can be more competitive;
therefore, I believe there is an opportunity for our processors, big and small,
to make a difference.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member from the Opposition kind of just talked about
tariffs and how Mr. Harper is not friendly and how he does not trust our
government and all the rest, but I want to talk about a couple of other things
that were not discussed: the potential for infrastructure. I believe the hon.
member was up last week or one of the hon. members opposite was up and talked
about the deteriorating infrastructure in our communities, the wharfs that need
to be fixed, the sheds, the storage areas.
Well, Mr. Speaker, in this agreement part of the agreement is for
infrastructure. I cannot recall which hon. member, the hon. Member for Burgeo
La Poile again, they talked about infrastructure and wharves. Mr. Speaker, I
am in the District of Port de Grave and right now I am dealing with an issue in
Upper Island Cove, a wharf that needs repair that has had some storm damage and
all the rest. That wharf needs replacement. Under this potential deal, wharves
that have been deteriorating for years will have an opportunity to be repaired
and fishermen can go back to using them safely.
Mr. Speaker, as well, I do not think the member talked a little bit about the
science. We were criticized as well because we have not done a whole lot in
science. Well, we are the only Province in the country that has our own fishery
science, and we have been doing some great work. I believe, speaking on behalf
of the seventy-five or eighty harvesters that are in my district, the
innovations that could come to harvesters through technology, new ways of
fishing, new ways of catching different types of species, and maybe even new
ways of catching crab and shrimp, I think that is very important. So science is
very important.
Also, Mr. Speaker, George Rose has been doing some great work on the tracking
of species, and in particular cod and halibut. One of the concerns, and we have
always had the concern, is about quality. We need quality. If we are going to
ship to the European Union and we are going to compete in that market, I have no
doubt that quality is going to be essential. We have to ensure the quality of
our product going into the European Union is of the utmost quality, excellent
quality.
Because of the science that George Rose is doing, I believe, Mr. Speaker, we
will have the quality. I know he has been doing a lot of work around whole cod
and big cod in the bays, tracking, and all of those things. That is going to pay
benefits in the long run. I know on the West Coast he has been doing some
tracking of halibut and all of the other things that are going on there, the
science that is going to go into there and the opportunity for us to get
significant investment back to go into science so we can use science to improve
the future fishery of Newfoundland and Labrador.
As well, Mr. Speaker, in the science area there is an opportunity here to
make sure we can monitor change. We know water temperatures are changing. We
know cod patterns are changing. With this new deal, the CETA deal, hopefully we
are going to have more money in science and we can monitor better the water
temperatures and the changing patterns of migration patterns of fish species.
As well, Mr. Speaker, through our science and technology we are building
capacity. We are building capacity where capacity never existed before because
Mr. Rose and his group at CCFI are building capacity. They have employed twenty
grad students. When this program started, there were no Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians in the program. Right now we have five Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians working in the program, building capacity in the industry, wanting
to stay here, wanting to improve the science, and wanting to improve fish
culture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Speaker, I think that is important. I think that is
very important because prior to this, there was nobody nobody no
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in this industry. Through the work of the CCFI
and through the work of Mr. Rose, we have five grad students now in the
industry.
Mr. Speaker, talking about fish plants and the opportunities with fish
plants, going back to that and employment. Mr. Speaker, we believe that through
this deal we can lengthen the season. How often have we heard about crab plants
closing and not enough hours, and people cannot get their EI and all the rest?
Well, Mr. Speaker, we believe through the elimination of tariffs that will
have an immediate economic development impact on rural areas of our Province. It
will create employment. I believe in the two plants that I talked about earlier,
in the two small processing plants, the one in Bay Roberts and the one in Port
de Grave, I believe we can get longer seasons. I think it is very important that
these tariffs come down.
As well, Mr. Speaker, we are talking about marine sustainability. The EU
talks about marine stewardship and certification. Eighty-two per cent of our
fish in Newfoundland and Labrador is marine stewardship certified. In the
European Union, environmental conservation and sustainability is very important.
Mr. Speaker, we are doing that; we have 82 per cent of our fish product in the
marine steward certification program. So I think that is also very important to
us.
Mr. Speaker, what that program does, that basically allows product to be
traced back to where it was caught. Not only back to where it was caught, but
how it was caught, and what methods it was caught, if it was caught
environmentally friendly and all the rest. So, Mr. Speaker, I think that is very
important. Environmental stewardship is a big part of this.
As we go on here, I believe that our government continues to be focused on
maximizing the net economic benefits for our people of the Province. We believe
this deal is a good deal, Mr. Speaker; $400 million provides opportunities. I
believe the $400 million will provide opportunities for us to have a sustainable
fishery of the future. If we do this right, we believe we will have a
sustainable fishery in the future.
Mr. Speaker, I was very interested on Friday, I was reading letters to the
editor and I saw an
article in there from Mr. Bill Barry, one of the processors.
He talked about different things about the deal, but he said here, "This is good
for everyone in our industry; fishermen as well as processors. The provincial
government is to be commended for hard bargaining and the federal government for
completing such a complex trade agreement" That is not my words, Mr. Speaker;
it is Mr. Barry's words.
Mr. Speaker, he also talked about, "I have also heard it said that CETA would
discriminate against small companies, while the opposite is more likely, due to
less bureaucracy and clearer rules to facilitate trade." These are not my words,
Mr. Speaker. Again, these are Mr. Barry's words about the CETA deal.
In closing, Mr. Speaker, he said, "What we need as a province is more
customers." I might add, Mr. Speaker, this is a great opportunity. This is 500
million customers with $17 trillion to spend.
Mr. Speaker, I believe this is a good deal. I was very proud to stand here
today and speak to it.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for the District of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS DEMPSTER: Mr. Speaker, I have a teenage daughter at home and
oftentimes she will come to me and say: Mom, do you think this is a good idea or
a bad idea? I cannot answer right away. I need more information. I ask
questions. I say: You let me know this and this and this, and then I will make
the decision. I am not standing today, Mr. Speaker, to say that CETA is a bad
deal, but I am standing to say we certainly need more information before we can
make that decision.
Mr. Speaker, the private member's resolution is asking us to support, and I
want to read it because it is very, very vague. It is very general. It says: we
acknowledge "the tremendous importance to Newfoundland and Labrador of the terms
of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement-in-principle (CETA) between
Canada and the European Union for which the Provincial Government successfully
advocated" for. It is all positive.
Then, it finishes with: we support "the decision of the Federal and
Provincial Governments to establish a $400 million fund to improve our fishing
industry's global competitiveness to capitalize more fully on the phenomenal
opportunities that CETA will generate for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians." It
is very, very vague, Mr. Speaker.
You want us to support a deal that will capitalize fully on the phenomenal
opportunities. All we are really asking is: Where are the details? How will the
$400 million be spent? Well, $120 million of that $400 million is the taxpayers
of this Province, and we have an obligation to the taxpayers of the Province to
tell them how this money is being spent.
From the outside it looks good. Yes, it gives us access to a market that
historically, Mr. Speaker, we have paid big fees on. Is this money going to
marketing? Is it going to infrastructure? Is this the long-awaited marketing
plan that was promised two years ago?
I found it personally, Mr. Speaker, a little bit peculiar that at the recent
announcement it was a joint funding agreement, but while the full PC caucus was
there, not one federal minister was there. What is that all about, Mr. Speaker?
I believe the people have a right to know.
Thank you.
MR. JOYCE: (Inaudible) Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER (Littlejohn): On a point of order?
MR. JOYCE: No, no, by leave. I am going to finish her time; that was
agreed to.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition by leave to finish the time.
AN HON. MEMBER: No.
MR. SPEAKER: No.
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to the private member's
motion on CETA, a Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement between Canada and
the EU. It has been ongoing for a number of years, approximately four years.
As Minister of IBRD involved with the trade file, I have worked through the
file in terms of the opportunities for CETA, Canada, and the economic union. We
have
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, again, it is a long time in the making in terms of this
agreement, Canada and the EU. Looking at from the broader perspective, access to
a huge market, 500 million people, $13 trillion in terms of GDP; enormous
opportunities overall in terms of technology transfer, labour transfer, as well
as those new markets I speak of, and on a national scale, dairy, beef and from
our perspective, Newfoundland and Labrador fish.
Early on in these negotiations, as Minister of IBRD, my colleague for
Fisheries at the time, were steadfast from the beginning that our main priority
of these agreements was to get access to the EU, reduce tariffs; the elimination
of those tariffs, to get our product into the EU, and the removal of end us
restrictions, which is so important. It is very important in terms of growing
our industry.
What it does is it creates another environment, another market for our goods.
Right now we export into the US, we export into Japan, and we export into China.
Now with access to the EU, it is another market where we can be competitive. We
can grow our industry which is so important because the more market, the more
competitive, and we can get that seafood into those markets.
As I said, it is very important when you look at our industry, our fishing
industry. It is significant for our Province. It is significant in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador; a very important role it plays. We have all seen the
numbers, production value of a billion dollars. It is very significant.
I know in my own district on the Southern Shore, we have two processing
facilities and a number of harvesters right along the shore from Petty Harbour,
Maddox Cove South to St. Shott's. Historically, it has been very important to
the region, going right back to the early days when we came here and settled the
ports and harbours in Newfoundland and Labrador.
We transformed from a ground fishery into a shellfish industry. We shut down
the ground fishery in the early 1990s. We saw a huge change, a huge upheaval in
terms of what the fishery was and the type of fishery it was to what it is
today. We seen it evolve into as I say, shellfish has become a huge commodity.
It is very high in value with huge returns to all of the industry, from the
investors in the processing sector, the harvesting side, and those who work in
our facilities.
We have a challenge in terms of labour supply, in terms of those communities
and those fish processing facilities, with the age of up around fifty-four. As
we look to the future and how we develop it, we need to extend out those weeks
of work, making sure that we can attract people to the industry with increased
value, increased markets, and increased opportunity.
We will have increased wages, so it becomes a competitive labour force and we
can have those people to work in the industry. So, 90,000 people employed
overall in the industry is significant, as I said, scattered all throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
The elimination of the trade barriers now basically under this tentative
agreement which was signed by the Canadian government and the EU, implementation
anywhere from sixteen to twenty-four months in regard to everything being
translated into the various languages, all the t's being crossed and the i's
dotted, in terms of moving it forward. At that point, our seafood, about 99.1
per cent of all the seafood lines that are important to us, will go into the EU
with all tariffs down to zero and as well with the ability for the removal of
end-use restrictions.
The tariffs right now are anywhere from 7.5 per cent to 20 per cent. If you
have to build that into your business model and put that into that market,
obviously that is a disadvantage in many cases to get that product in. It is an
extra cost and the business model does not work. With those removed, certainly
for species like crab or shrimp, once you hit your ATQ that is there now, you
cannot go in over and above that now. If you do, the tariff is there.
So what happens now is some of that product, say, shrimp, would be held,
maybe stored, and could not go into the market now because of the quota. With
this removed, obviously you can access that market and get that product in, even
products going to other markets. Now there is a competitor. You can look to put
that product as well into the EU.
This also opens up opportunities with tariffs on species now that maybe are
not going into the EU because of the restrictive tariffs. There is a new
opportunity to send that species into the EU. It may be even species now that we
are not fully harvesting because of the restrictive nature of the tariffs. That
is another opportunity, new species that we can look at putting into the EU and
any of those individual states and working out relationships in those particular
areas to do it, which is so important.
Immediately when we see the Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement between
Canada and the EU signed, from that three-year period, minimum processing
requirements with the EU will stay in place over that period as well. We spoke
about the $400 million fund that will be dispersed over that three-year period
as we look to grow our industry and do a whole range of things, certainly
strengthening that industry and making it grow.
Then based on our estimate in terms of what that new market would mean,
conservatively we are looking at basing our analysis somewhere in the range of
$100 million a year based on getting into the EU. That is growing, as I said,
our $1 billion industry, which is so important as we move it forward to get into
those markets.
The other thing we have come to learn is that from a Newfoundland and
Labrador perspective, from an Eastern Canadian perspective and around the world,
especially in Europe, sustainability of fish products are so important. The
market now wants to trace back and see where that fish and seafood is coming
from. Is it a sustainable environment?
Eighty-two per cent of the value of fish in the Province now has Marine
Stewardship Council certification or in the process of obtaining it. That is so
very important because around the world, especially in Europe, as I said people
want to see that it is sustainable, it is environmentally friendly, it is
harvested in a sustainable fashion and if that is so and you receive your
certification, it is a marketable product and people certainly look to Eastern
Canada to do that and recognize us as a player in that regard.
Now in the overall scheme of things, we look at our fishery and the volume of
fish we have and you look at the global marketed fishery, we are small in scale
and scope, obviously; but we need to make sure that we have a good product, that
is sustainable, value added, is certainly leading in terms of the quality and
find those niche markets. The EU is certainly another opportunity to do that,
along with what we put into Japan, China and our friends to the South, the US,
which is very important.
I mentioned the $400 million in terms of what was negotiated; 70 per cent by
the federal government and 30 per cent by the Province. When you look at it, Mr.
Speaker, it is a billion dollar industry and $400 million is going to be put in
to support this industry and drive it. It is unprecedented in the Province and
certainly in Canada as a whole, I would think, in regard to when you look at the
production value of an industry and combining the amount of funds that is going
to be put in to continue to grow the industry through things like research and
development, infrastructure, and certainly marketing is very important as well.
Some of the bigger companies have their own marketing in places like China,
but those smaller firms, smaller processors, which are competing today I might
add we often hear some negative comments in regard to it is going to hurt the
smaller processor; nothing could be further from the truth.
Right now, the smaller processors in Newfoundland and Labrador are in
international markets, they are selling into internationally markets, foreign
markets, and they are doing quite well; but this allows again another
opportunity to get into an additional market like the EU, a large market, which
some of the funds that we have, we can work with them in regard to marketing
initiatives whether it is bringing a group together collectively, small
processors, identifying markets for them, and identifying added value.
A lot of times when you sell to a broker, the broker is selling a commodity
and they are selling it into the market as is and you do not learn a lot about
the intelligence about value added. What does the market want? What does the
consumer want in another country? Is there another species they want or can you
value add to a species you have now to increase the value of that product?
Also, as I said, from a secondary processing point of view with the end-use
restrictions gone, we can see in our processing facilities here in the Province
in rural Newfoundland and Labrador the ability to do more secondary processing.
Right now we will send shrimp into the EU, industrial form goes to the EU, it is
thawed, it is repackaged, secondary processing is done to it, and it is branded
and put in the market in one of the EU states. What is going to happen under
CETA is the opportunity for that secondary processing to happen here where a
value-added product can be done, stamped, sealed, a Newfoundland and Labrador
company can send it into one of the EU states, so we can certainly value add and
when you value-add, the prices goes up and certainly all players get a return on
that.
Other areas, in terms of the fund, we look at harvesting and various
technologies, how we get the product as I said through Europe and even in other
jurisdictions as well. This is not solely for the EU; it is certainly across the
board when we look at marketing.
An initiative we looked at through DFA just a little while ago, working with
the Centre for Fisheries Innovation looking at cod; 14,000 tons of cod now is
available and not being full utilized. We are doing some research now through
the centre in regard to Mr. Bob Verge in terms of how can we get that into the
market, top-quality fresh cod, how do we get into the market in places like the
US. We will be looking at that as well. It gives us intelligence as well in
terms of that industry and that species. There are many species like that that
we will look at as we move forward through this and build our industry.
As well the industry players as Minister of IBRD, we called in industry
some time ago, certainly the FFAW, ASP, all the industry players and sat around
in regard to the minimum processing requirements and we were solely looking at
Europe; we were not looking outside of that. Right now with minimum processing
requirements, we provide exemptions where it is in the best interests of the
Province and we can generate the most wealth we can for our Province and for the
industry players. This is the same process we went through in regard to the EU.
We looked at: If we were to just look at removing the exemptions at request for
the EU, will this help grow our industries? Will there be competition for that
raw resource?
We looked historically at the Atlantic Provinces, and no MPR restrictions in
place. We feel strongly and certainly all of our intelligence in what we have
done, historical patterns, are that the EU processing cannot compete with us.
They have not tried to compete with us when you talk about MPRs not being in
place in other jurisdictions. We are quite confident that we are competitive. We
will compete with the EU in terms of processing and we will continue to grow our
industry.
Overall, this is a good resolution today as we move forward. My understanding
is this will go to the House of Commons where there will be debate because it is
between Canada and the EU. There is a significant process as we move forward of
anywhere from sixteen, to eighteen, to twenty-four months, a lot of discussion,
a lot of talk about answering questions back and forth, where it is, and what we
have achieved.
Overall, as Fisheries Minister of Newfoundland and Labrador, our Premier, our
government and industry as a whole and we have heard it loud and clear that
this was needed. We are going to move the industry forward; it is a $1 billion
industry. We are going to grow it. We are going to grow it with the funds we
have. It is a new market; it is new opportunity.
It is a new day for the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador. CETA is going
to grow it. We are going to continue to build our communities in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador through this, build industry as a whole, and continue
to be a global player in the fishing industry in the world.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party and Member for Signal
Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I am very glad to get the opportunity to stand and speak to this resolution.
Not because I am going to vote for the resolution, but because it is going to
give me an opportunity to speak to issues that I have wanted to raise in this
House with regard to CETA. Having this private member's resolution means I now
will have the opportunity to do that.
Mr. Speaker, I have to say it is rather disconcerting that here we have in
front of us something which is asking us to approve an agreement-in-principle
without the details of what that agreement is going to be. What I have to say is
here we go again. We have this government asking us to approve something without
the details that tell us what the agreement is really going to mean for the
people in this Province.
That is what they did to us with Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker. That is what
they did to the Public Utilities Board around Muskrat Falls, asking the Public
Utilities Board to approve the Muskrat Falls Project before it had even gone
through the DG 3 decisions.
They are famous, this government is, for putting things in front of us and
asking us to agree with them, asking us to acknowledge how wonderful it is,
asking us to give approval for things without giving us details. That is exactly
what they are doing with us here again today, Mr. Speaker. We are really going
to get used to it, not getting any details from them when we ask questions on
the floor of the House and not getting details from them when we have debates in
the House, whether it is legislative debates or whether it is a private member's
resolution, expecting us to approve things without details, which fits right in
with the whole principle that was behind Bill 29 when it was brought it.
Accept us, follow us, listen to us, and do not think you are going to know
anything we are doing because we are going to hide everything. That is what this
government is all about, Mr. Speaker. They have no idea what openness and
transparency is.
So here we are today, looking at this agreement, CETA, which is an
agreement-in-principal, as I have just said. Even what we have, even what we
have been given, is only a
summary of an agreement. That agreement has to be
ratified by all Canadian provinces, not just by Ottawa by all Canadian
provinces and all twenty-eight EU countries. We are far from having a full
agreement in place, Mr. Speaker.
There are so many things about CETA that have been disconcerting and we have
not been able to debate it because this government never even acknowledged what
was happening at the table when they were at the table. We did not even know
sometimes if they were at the table, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that.
We did not even know sometimes if they really were at the table. There was so
much secrecy about our Province's involvement in the CETA negotiations. It was
unbelievable, Mr. Speaker.
There are so many things here in this agreement that critics are really
concerned about. One of them is that this agreement is going to strengthen the
rights of corporations, and this is a serious one I am going to pay some
attention to, by removing public oversight and democratic decision making from
even more areas of our lives and giving private investors more rights to
penalize governments. That is an important point.
We have had this experience, Mr. Speaker, with the North American Free Trade
Agreement where a
section of NAFTA,
section 11, actually gives the right to
corporations to take Canada and parts of Canadian society to court if the
corporations feel they are not being treated correctly under NAFTA. CETA is
going to continue that.
What we are dealing with here is a document that we do not have in our hands
and a document that is going to shock people when it becomes public. This
government is going to have to take resp