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October 24, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-24 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 24 October 2005 Lundi 24 octobre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

THOMAS TSUBOUCHI

LUPUS DISEASE

VOLUNTEER SERVICE AWARDS

BY-ELECTION IN

SCARBOROUGH-ROUGE RIVER

FOIRE D'INFORMATION D'EMBRUN

PROPOSED WOODSTOCK HOSPITAL

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

EVENTS IN HAMILTON /

ÉVÉNEMENTS DIVERS À HAMILTON

HURRICANE RELIEF

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

GAS PRICE WATCHDOG ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR L'AGENT

DE SURVEILLANCE

DES PRIX DU CARBURANT

VISITORS

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

HOSPITAL SERVICES

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERS' EXPENSES

HOSPITAL SERVICES

WATER QUALITY

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

VIOLENT CRIME

HEALTH SERVICES

IDENTITY THEFT

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

VIOLENT CRIME

HOSPICE CARE

PROPERTY TAXATION

BY-ELECTION IN

SCARBOROUGH-ROUGE RIVER

PATIENT TRANSFERS

KARLA HOMOLKA

LOBBYISTS

MEMBER'S BIRTHDAY

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CANCER TREATMENT

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

GO TRANSIT TUNNEL

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

HALTON RECYCLING PLANT

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

HEALTH SERVICES

QUEENSWAY CARLETON HOSPITAL

CANCER TREATMENT

TENANT PROTECTION

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENDING MANDATORY RETIREMENT

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

POUR ÉLIMINER LA RETRAITE

OBLIGATOIRE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

THOMAS TSUBOUCHI

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): I rise today on behalf of all members of this House to express our heartfelt sympathies to the Honourable David

Tsubouchi, his sister Lynne, his brother Dan and their families concerning the tragic death of their 83-year-old father, Thomas, on Friday morning.

Thomas Tsubouchi was crossing Huntingwood Drive at Dibgate Boulevard on Friday when he was struck by a motor vehicle. What makes this incident so horrible is

that the driver failed to stop. I understand that Mr. Tsubouchi was still alive after he was hit, but the driver left the scene and failed to administer any type of aid.

In spite of this horrible crime, David Tsubouchi has been particularly thoughtful in his public comments and has been careful not to be too harsh on the driver.

As such, we would ask anyone who knows anything about this terrible tragedy to come forward, do the right thing and call your local police.

I spoke with David earlier today to express our sympathies. He served with distinction in this Legislature from 1995 to 2003 as the MPP for Markham and as

Minister of Community and Social Services, Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations, Solicitor General, Minister of Culture and Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet.

As John Tory said, Mr. Tsubouchi was a hero: "He was one of many Japanese Canadians who were wrongly interned during the Second World War. He persevered and was

an excellent mentor, father and friend."

Again, our sympathies are with the Tsubouchi family today during this difficult time in their lives.

LUPUS DISEASE

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): October is Lupus Awareness Month, and I'm pleased to make the following comments on behalf of the Lupus

Foundation of Ontario.

Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease that affects one out of every 185 people. It can affect people of different races and ages, and it can affect men, women

and children of all ages. Simply put, we can all be affected by lupus.

Lupus is different for everyone who has it. It can involve the joints, skin, kidneys, lungs, heart, brain, central nervous system, blood and more. Common signs

of lupus are rashes, swollen joints, fever, chest pains, swollen glands, extreme fatigue, hair loss, sun sensitivity, low blood count, memory problems, seizures and kidney problems. There is no

definitive cause for lupus and there is no cure. In extreme cases, the disease may become fatal.

Mr. Speaker and members of the House, I invite you to join with communities throughout Ontario, throughout Canada and indeed throughout all the world to

recognize that October is Lupus Awareness Month, in order to help bring awareness to a little-known disease that affects so many of our citizens.

VOLUNTEER SERVICE AWARDS

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I rise today to recognize some special residents who volunteer their time in my beautiful riding of Parry

Sound-Muskoka.

Mr. Gord Dawes was recognized as Ontario's snowmobile trail officer patrol Officer of the Year. Gord Dawes has served 10 years as a volunteer patrolling the

4,000 kilometres of snowmobile trails in Muskoka. The award was presented by the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs. Without Gord Dawes, there wouldn't be a STOP program in Muskoka region. He

is responsible for organizing meetings, patrolling trails and assisting with training for the other STOP officers. STOP volunteers are sworn in as special constables by the OPP and help to make

sure that riders respect the laws of the trail and make trails safer in general for all those who enjoy riding. Congratulations, Gord.

I would also like to recognize a few local volunteers from the United Senior Citizens of Ontario Inc. who last week were presented with the Ontario Volunteer

Service Award: Mrs. May Snell for 15 years, Mrs. Grace Gibson for her 20 years of service, Mr. John McNicoll for 20 years, Mrs. Lorene Ross for 25 years and Mrs. Gwen McCormack for 25 years of

service. Also recognized was Mr. Gordon Snell for his 25 years of volunteerism. Sadly, Mr. Snell died before he could receive this honour. Mr. Snell was also a former mayor of the town of

Huntsville.

Congratulations to these and to all the other volunteers in the communities of Parry Sound-Muskoka. I thank all of you for your dedication and service to

others.

BY-ELECTION IN

SCARBOROUGH-ROUGE RIVER

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I wanted to rise today to talk about a mystery that's worthy of Sherlock Holmes. In fact, people might ask,

"What is that mystery?" That mystery is the frequently asked question that's coming at the door as our candidate in Scarborough-Rouge River, Sheila White, is knocking -- and she's receiving

phenomenal support there. The question that she keeps getting as she knocks on those doors in Scarborough-Rouge River is, "When will the McGuinty Liberals call the Scarborough-Rouge River

by-election, and why is there such a delay?"

Before the last election, Dalton McGuinty said, "Elections used to be designed to foster public participation. Now the timing and rules are cynically manipulated

to reduce turnout and minimize exposure of the government's record.... It's time to put the silly guessing game behind us once and for all."

Premier, put the guessing behind us now and announce the date of the by-election for Scarborough-Rouge River. You promised to end the "silly guessing game." Now

the people of Scarborough-Rouge River are guessing that you're too scared to call the election. Meanwhile, they are very enthusiastic about our NDP candidate, Sheila White. She was endorsed, in

fact, by Alvin Curling when he was an MPP, and the voters of Scarborough-Rouge River are ready to give her a similar strong endorsement.

The McGuinty Liberals have lost the public trust, and the people of Scarborough-Rouge River want to elect Sheila White to send them a message. Stop breaking your

promises; stop taking the voters of Scarborough-Rouge River for granted. Dalton, call the by-election and have the courage to face the voters in Scarborough-Rouge River.

FOIRE D'INFORMATION D'EMBRUN

M. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): Le 4 octobre dernier, j'ai eu le grand plaisir d'assister à la foire d'information

d'Embrun intitulée La vie active... C'est pour la vie. Parrainnée par la FAFO, la fédération des ainés franco-ontariens, c'était une première pour la région

de Prescott-Russell qui fut grandement appréciée par plus de 350 francophones présents.

Il s'agissait d'une journée entièrement axée sur des informations pour les personnes de 50 ans et plus. Il y a eu des ateliers, des kiosques

d'information et des conférences sur tous les sujets susceptibles d'intéresser les gens de 50 ans et plus, tels que des informations d'ordre légal comme les procurations, ainsi que

l'importance de la forme physique et l'utilisation sécuritaire des médicaments.

Je félicite les organisateurs pour leur bel esprit d'équipe et de partenariat qui ont fait de l'événement un franc succès. Je tiens

à remercier tous les partenaires de cette foire : la FAFO régionale de l'est, présidée par Fleurette Lalande et son secrétaire, Edgar Pommainville; le Secrétariat

aux affaires des personnes âgées; le Club Joie de Vivre 50+ d'Embrun, sous la présidence de Cécile Desjardins; et le Bureau de santé de l'est de l'Ontario.

Félicitations à tous les organisateurs. J'attends avec anticipation la foire d'information des années à venir.

PROPOSED WOODSTOCK HOSPITAL

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): Last week I had the pleasure of showing our leader around my riding of Oxford. Not only did we have the pleasure of

introducing John to the great people of Oxford, but he was invited to speak to the members of the Woodstock Chamber of Commerce at lunch.

After lunch, I drove John to the site where the new Woodstock hospital is supposed to be located -- a hospital that the McGuinty Liberals continue to ignore; a

hospital for which the McGuinty Liberals won't put pen to paper and give final approval.

In December 2000, former Minister of Health Elizabeth Witmer announced that a new hospital would be built to serve Oxford county. In October 2001, the Woodstock

Hospital Foundation submitted the functional program and, upon its approval, began the master planning. Working drawings, including pre-tender cost estimates, were submitted to the ministry for

approval in December 2003. Now, almost two years later, the project is still waiting for permission from the provincial government to go to tender.

In June 2005, it was announced that a new Toyota assembly plant would be locating in Woodstock. The addition of the new Toyota plant will increase demand on the

already strained resources of the current hospital in Woodstock.

It's time for the McGuinty Liberals to stop stalling and get shovels in the ground soon for the sake of the patients and health care in Oxford county. It is

unacceptable that a project that was first announced five years ago has yet to get permission from the McGuinty Liberal government to go to tender.

Community leaders, hospital officials and volunteers have worked hard to meet their end of the deal. When is this government going to honour their end of the

deal?

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): I was very fortunate and honoured to be in Barrie on Saturday at the Allergy/Asthma Information Association expo to talk

about the bill we passed unanimously in the House last May, called Sabrina's Law. When we passed the bill, there were parents, schoolchildren and champions of anaphylactic students here to watch us

enshrine much-needed protection into law.

In Barrie I met with parents, teachers and, most importantly, tons of students who spend a great deal of time worrying about exposure to allergens. It was a very

moving experience, and I saw and heard first-hand the impression and the impact we have had in this House for all of the people around Ontario. I saw the good that government can do when we act in

the best interests of our children, and people pointed that out to us.

As you know, I've championed issues that help protect students, and Sabrina's Law does just that. We have asked school boards, principals, school staff and

parents to be prepared for emergency situations involving anaphylactic students. Thanks to Sabrina's Law, they would, and should be, in every school across the province.

The people I saw on Saturday live with the worry that even the smallest amount of a food particle could harm or even kill a loved one. Although parents and

students still must be vigilant, we have all helped to make our schools safe for anaphylactic students.

One of the biggest comments that was made in that one-day event was how proud they were of the legislators that unanimous concent was given in first, second and

third readings. We should all be very proud.

EVENTS IN HAMILTON /

ÉVÉNEMENTS DIVERS À HAMILTON

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I rise in the House today to announce some great news for Hamilton West. This past Friday, the Ministry of

the Attorney General provided grants to three separate organizations in downtown Hamilton through the community grants program. These funds will go toward projects that assist and support victims

of crime.

Last week, I had the pleasure of announcing funding of $31,934 to the Planned Parenthood Society of Hamilton to help launch a community outreach project to

assist victims of sexual-orientation hate crimes. Planned Parenthood is a wonderful organization that supports healthy sexual activity and reproduction by providing confidential assistance to youth

on a walk-in basis.

Wesley Urban Ministries Inc., which celebrated their 50th anniversary on Sunday, is an organization that provides shelter and services for street youth, the

homeless and the unemployed in downtown Hamilton. They will receive $21,673 for a counselling program for homeless female youth across our city.

Finalement, le Centre de santé communautaire Hamilton-Wentworth-Niagara va recevoir 50 000 $ pour développer un programme pour les enfants

qui ont eu l'expérience de la violence domestique dans la communauté francophone à Hamilton. Le programme va assister à l'éducation des enfants au sujet de la violence

ainsi qu'offrir des conseils pour les petites victimes.

We in Hamilton West are so proud of our city, and our priority is ensuring the safety of the people in our community. These grants will help to provide

assistance for the homeless, for victims of abuse and crime --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

HURRICANE RELIEF

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I rise to tell the members of this House about a tremendous achievement accomplished through

communal effort by the citizens in my riding.

As you know, less than two months ago Hurricane Katrina devastated the coastal regions of Louisiana and Mississippi. While many of us were talking about the

damage and wondering what could be done, communities and businesses in the Bay of Quinte area began to act. It started with Max Haggarty donating a transport and driver to carry a load of relief

supplies to the coast, and it snowballed. In total, the people of Prince Edward-Hastings donated almost $30,000 and shipped 150,000 bottles of water to Red Cross kitchen number 19 in Slidell,

Louisiana.

I would especially like to thank ITS Transportation, Gary Cooney of Cooney Transport, Canadian Tire and CN Rail for donating equipment and drivers to take our

donations south, and the brewers' alliance for financial assistance toward transportation costs. I would like to thank Sheila Barry and John Considine at the US embassy in Ottawa for their

assistance with all the paperwork. Chief Inspector Gary Musser and Superintendent Al Mason were extraordinarily helpful with border crossings. And Paula Burke at Culligan was patient, accommodating

our ever-increasing need for water from Culligan. Thanks to the Royal Bank in Belleville for administering the money, and thanks to Laura, Dave and Brian of my staff for their commitment, energy

and enthusiasm for this project.

Businesses donated pallets of water, and senior citizens' groups held euchre parties to raise money. Churches took up special collections. Municipalities, school

boards, Loyalist College, local unions -- donations came from every part of our community. I'm proud of the hundreds of people who came together to help our neighbours to the south, and I thank

them on behalf of this Legislature.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly, pursuant to standing order

109(b).

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Hardeman presents the committee's report. Does the member wish to make a brief statement?

Mr. Hardeman: No, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: Pursuant to standing order 109(b), the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

GAS PRICE WATCHDOG ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR L'AGENT

DE SURVEILLANCE

DES PRIX DU CARBURANT

Mr. Gravelle moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 10,

An Act respecting the price of motor vehicle fuel and the appointment of a Gas Price Watchdog / Projet de loi 10, Loi concernant le prix du carburant

pour véhicules automobiles et la nomination d'un agent de surveillance des prix du carburant.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Does the member have a brief statement?

Mr. Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): I believe strongly that consumers deserve to know what is a fair and justifiable price to pay

for gasoline at the pump. Indeed, I'm convinced that if consumers knew what that fair price was, they would accept it. Today, that situation does not exist. This legislation would change that.

The establishment of a gas price watchdog with legislative bite would ensure that companies would have to justify their price structure and would no longer be

able to gouge the public.

This is reasonable legislation that I hope secures the support of this House and, more specifically, the support of our government as we strive to eliminate the

discrepancies that exist now, such as the price in Toronto of 86 cents a litre yesterday compared with $1.02 a litre in Thunder Bay, a discrepancy that should not exist.

VISITORS

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I would like to recognize that we have some very special guests from Niagara

Falls: Professor Rick Gay from Kingston College and a number of students from China who are studying political science and have taken the time to be here in the House. They are Mike, Randy, Nick,

Bill and John.

On behalf of everyone here in the House, I'd like to compliment you for taking the time to come to Queen's Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): That, of course, was not a point of order.

We welcome you very much to our proceedings.

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent

to put forward a motion without notice regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Mr. Bradley: I move that, notwithstanding order 96(d), the following changes be made to the ballot list of private members' public

business: Mr. Kormos and Ms. Churley exchange places in order of precedence such that Mr. Kormos assumes ballot item 61 and Ms. Churley assumes ballot item 4; Mr. Ouellette and Mr. Wilson exchange

places in order of precedence such that Mr. Ouellette assumes ballot item 62 and Mr. Wilson assumes ballot item 7; and Ms. Munro and Mr. Baird exchange places in order of precedence such that Ms.

Munro assumes ballot item 44 and Mr. Baird assumes ballot item 14.

The Speaker: Mr. Bradley has moved that, notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following changes be made to the ballot list of private

members' public business: Mr. Kormos and Ms. Churley exchange places in order of precedence such that Mr. Kormos assumes ballot item 61 --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense? Dispensed.

Shall the motion carry? Carried.

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing

order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Monday, October 24, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has moved government notice of motion number 8. Shall the motion carry?

All those in favour will say "aye."

All those opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1353 to 1358.

The Speaker: All those in favour will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

Parsons, Ernie

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Sterling, Norman W.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 62; the nays are 10.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Once again, I have the pleasure of rising in this House to share more good

news. Earlier today, the Premier and I had the privilege of being part of a remarkable and important event: the launch of the government of Ontario's wait times Web site. Here in this chamber we

often hear calls for greater accountability and greater transparency. We often hear calls for reliable, up-to-date information. Well, we've delivered. The Web site which the Premier and I helped

launch today does all of this and more.

As we all know, wait times are one of the crucial yardsticks by which we measure how well our health care system is performing, but until now we did not have

accurate information on wait times. I know this will come as something of a shock to members of this assembly, because it came as a shock to me, but when we took office just over two years ago, the

health care system we inherited did not compile this data. If you wanted to know what the waiting time was for a certain procedure at your local hospital, you just could not find out. Obviously,

this made it very difficult to make intelligent decisions about your care or the care of a loved one, because the information simply didn't exist. We knew wait times were bad, but no one knew, not

even hospitals, just how bad. I'm not sure how things slipped to such a state. Some other members may have some insight into this. Instead of pointing fingers and dishing out blame, we rolled up

our sleeves and we set out to fix it, and fix it we did.

As you know, our government set out to shorten wait times in five critical areas. We've already funded almost 240,000 additional procedures -- nearly a quarter

of a million. Just one example: Since we launched our wait times strategy, 42% more MRI procedures have been delivered in Ontario. These investments, these additional procedures, are contributing

to shorter wait times and are making an enormous difference in the lives of thousands of Ontarians.

But in order to shorten wait times, we knew that we had to do more than just fund additional procedures. That's not the whole answer. We also have to work

smarter. We have to identify problems and bottlenecks in the system. We have to make decisions based on the most reliable, up-to-date information. And we have to allow patients and their families

to do the same: to make decisions based on accurate and timely information.

This Web site, available to all Ontarians, does exactly that. It provides all Ontarians, patients and physicians, with information about actual wait times in

their communities at the local hospital, broken down by procedure and broken down by local health integration network.

We know that some of the most stressful decisions we make are about the health care of our loved ones and ourselves, and this Web site helps to remove some of

the guesswork. For others in the health care system, whether they be doctors, hospital administrators or ministry staff, the data on this Web site is equally instructive and valuable. We can manage

the wait times more effectively because we have accurate information to work with. By making this information public, we're introducing a degree of transparency and accountability that will have an

immediate and positive effect on the entire health care system. Because this information is broken down by local health integration network, hospitals within each LHIN will be able to better share

the wait times burden. This is precisely what local health integration networks are designed to foster.

I'd also like to take a moment to remind all members that on the issue of wait times, this government is way, way ahead of the field. We didn't sit here and

have someone tell us that wait times were a problem; we identified this as a problem long before the last election campaign, and our leader ran on a promise to shorten wait times.

Today, Ontario is a leader on the issue of wait times. I had the opportunity to meet with my federal, provincial and territorial colleagues this past weekend,

and I can tell you that every one of them has seen the progress that we've made in Ontario as a model for how to get things done.

The launch of this Web site is both an important milestone and a crucial turning point for health care in Ontario, and I am very proud to rise in my place to

congratulate and to thank our Premier for helping to make it a reality.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Responses?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): The much-publicized launch of the Web site list today was a major disappointment to people in the

province of Ontario, who thought that it would actually reduce wait times. This announcement today was a blatant attempt by the Liberal government to divert attention from the fact that they have

no plan and that they have broken their election promise to reduce wait times. Rather than improving access to care and reducing wait times, this government is simply looking at new ways to fool

people into thinking that change is happening. The Web site highlights a problem that we all know exists, but doesn't offer even as much as a band-aid solution.

Providing access to wait lists does not equal improving access to care, nor does it improve care or provide one more space for treatment. In reality, we all

know that people are waiting longer and they are paying more in taxes. The longer wait times were confirmed last week by the Fraser Institute, which stated that median wait times for the province

increased from 7.1 weeks in 2003 to 8.7 weeks in 2005. In fact, Ontarians suffered one of the largest jumps in wait times in Canada, with an average five-and-a-half days longer to receive needed

care than in the previous year, despite the fact that other provinces were showing improvements.

Today's announcement does not take into account that many of the individuals in need of this information are seniors who do not have access to a computer or

the Internet, or who understand how to use them. This information also does not help the person who does not have access to a family physician.

Indeed, let's deal with the issue of access to family doctors: When I looked at the Ministry of Health Web site today, I noticed that the number of communities

that were designated as underserviced has actually increased from June of 2003. Instead of 34 communities being underserviced, we now have 37 in the north; instead of 92 in the south, we now have

102. What use is this Web site to patients in Ontario who cannot access a family doctor?

This decrease in the number of doctors and increase in underserviced areas has all come about during the Liberal watch. Furthermore, without a plan to address

the shortage of doctors and nurses who can perform the procedures as well as the necessary follow-up, and capital investments in hospitals for additional operating rooms, these wait times will

continue to increase.

I was disappointed to see that the data on the Web site is incomplete, and I was surprised that not all hospitals had provided the data. Furthermore, this data

provides only a part of the picture; it fails to show the wait time from the time you go to your family physician to the procedure. Today's announcement provides no hope for goals or access targets

to indicate how quickly the wait times are going to be reduced. In fact, I want to quote from the OMA this morning, who were also expressing some disappointment. Dr. Flynn said, "I'm concerned

about my members" -- meaning the doctors -- "and the extra onus that's going to be placing on family doctors to hunt for a place that's acceptable for all parties to have the work done."

This announcement today offers no process as to how people can access these procedures in other communities. However, it does add to the workload of family

physicians and specialists instead of allowing them that time to provide care for their patients. In fact, he also said that if you're not one of the priority areas -- I mean, we're still in a

constrained system. Nothing that has happened today or yesterday has made for more anaesthetists. Nothing that has happened today or yesterday has created more diagnostic radiologists.

I think we can see that the announcement today is not going to decrease wait times. In fact, they have increased by five and a half days in the last year. It

is not going to improve access unless we have more doctors and nurses, and we now know that under the Liberal watch the number of underserviced areas has actually increased.

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): The government announcement today was more about spin than substance, and you only have to look the Web site

to see that. The OHA reports that there are 211 hospitals in the province, but only 74 are specifically required to list their wait times. It seems that those 74 were chosen because they got some

additional money this year to do additional procedures, which is interesting, as there are other Ontario hospitals that carry out these procedures too. But since they didn't get any additional

funding, they're not required to be on the Web site. You have to ask the government, why aren't they included? Don't they have wait lists too? If the purpose of the exercise -- and the government

seems to suggest that it is -- is that you're trying to get to the hospital with the shortest wait time to get your procedure done, why don't these hospitals factor into the equation too?

Secondly, of those required that were required to report this morning, a number failed to do so on one or more wait times. Those hospitals included London

Health Sciences Centre, Lakeridge, South Muskoka and Princess Margaret. It's hard to imagine why this wasn't done before the grand unveiling. It's interesting to ask what the government is going to

do when some of these hospitals that should have reported by the grand unveiling of the Web site didn't even report on those wait times that they were required to.

Thirdly, the Web site is only accessible or searchable not by hospital; you have to do it by postal code or by city or town. It's not very user friendly either

for consumers or for doctors. I think the reality is that most people aren't going to bother to get on it.

Let's deal with some of the issues regarding wait times themselves.

First, the government wants to leave the impression that people are going to get on the Web site, look for the hospital with the shortest wait list, go the

doctor to get a referral and go to that hospital, and they're going to get it done no matter where it is in Ontario. It's highly unlikely that most patients are even going to bother to take a look

at it. Most of those people very much trust their family doctor. They have an intimate relationship with their family doctor, and they believe that if a serious medical situation exists, their

family doctor will do something about that. If there's a serious problem, their family doctor is going to refer them to the place where they can get that procedure done in the quickest time. I

don't think you're going to see a lot of change. Because so many people are so comfortable with that relationship, they're not going to question it.

Secondly, for those who do take a look to see that there might be a short time somewhere else, they're going to approach their family doctor for an opinion. A

lot of family physicians already have a relationship with specialists in their own community whom they are very comfortable with. I think many of them are going to be concerned about referring

their patient, perhaps an elderly, frail patient, to a specialist they don't know, in a community they know nothing about, to a hospital they know nothing about. I don't think that most family

doctors are going to do that. They're going to want to be sure that they themselves have some kind of relationship with the specialist they're going to refer their patients to. It was Dr. Flynn who

raised that concern this morning, and I think it's a legitimate one.

Thirdly, for those who go on-site, discuss it with their family doctor, get a referral and then decide to go somewhere else, it's interesting that the

government has very clearly said that they're not going to pay for people to travel somewhere else to get their procedure done more quickly; the minister's own political staff said that. You need

to know, Speaker, that that also includes northern Ontario. Even if the northern Ontario travel grant is in existence, if there is a doctor in your community who can undertake that procedure, you

can't qualify to go somewhere else either in the north, or out of the north to the south. I think that if people have to pay out of their own pocket to travel, for accommodation, for family to be

there with them and there's no government funding for that, they're not going to go.

Finally, I think Dr. Rachlis said it correctly when he told the Toronto Star on October 17 that `"the `biggest problem' is the shortage of doctors and nurses

to handle patients, not so much where they're doing the treatment. `We just don't have enough of the specialists or the nursing people that are involved in the system,' Rachlis told the Toronto

Star.

"`And with the aging population and the aging health caregivers in our population, things are going to get worse.'"

It's interesting that the minister had nothing to say about the serious problem that this province, like so many others, is not going to meet the commitment it

made to establish benchmarks for wait times by December 2005. It's very clear that the federal government gave $41 billion to the provinces on condition that some of them would meet some of the

commitments they had signed on to. One of those commitments was to have scientifically based benchmarks in place for a number of procedures by this December. You only have to read the paper and see

the weasel words of the federal minister and our very own minister to know that this government is not going to meet its commitment. You've got the money; why don't you meet the promise that you

set when you signed on to the accord last September?

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERS' EXPENSES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Given your admission on Friday that your Minister of Finance broke

the rules by funnelling his expenses through the civil service, what canvass have you and your staff done so that you can guarantee that no other members of your cabinet have broken these

rules?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm pleased to have the question and to inform the House that, further to

my opportunity to speak with members of the media on Friday last, I had the opportunity to speak with our Minister of Government Services, Gerry Phillips, and we have, under his auspices, sent a

clarification to all of our ministers to improve the system that is already in place and to make it perfectly clear that if it's not practical for a minister to file a claim on his or her own and

somebody else ends up paying for it, then it's important that that be brought to the attention of the Integrity Commissioner. That's the point of clarification that was made by the Minister of

Government Services, and I think that was the fair and reasonable thing to do in the circumstances.

Mr. Tory: I say to the Premier, this is a fairly basic issue about your standards, about following the rules and about respect for the

taxpayers' money. I can't imagine what would make it impractical for a minister to pay for an event that that minister is hosting. It's fairly commonplace in the private sector that the most senior

person present at an event would pay, precisely so that you can't have people who are putting expenses through who are not then captured by the system.

Information that we already have shows that another minister, your Minister of Economic Development, had a $1,000 dinner in Stuttgart and a $1,300 lunch in

Milan which were put through a civil servant expense account, which is against the rules and escapes the examination of those expenses by the Integrity Commissioner.

We have today filed freedom of information requests for all expenses related to all trips taken by your ministers. Since we know the rules were broken and we

have the right to know how broadly, will you save us the trouble of going through that seven-month process and simply make all those expense returns public right now?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I've made it clear, and we've formalized that now by a point of clarification that has been distributed to all ministers

and their staff. I'll read that so that the leader of the official opposition understands exactly what we've done. It says:

"Ministers will disclose an allowable expense incurred by them or on their behalf with the Integrity Commissioner.

"While it is preferable, wherever possible, for ministers to pay allowable expenses themselves, if it is not practical for a minister to pay for an allowable

expense, the minister shall note the expense on his or her claim form and shall include a copy of the receipt indicating that the expense has been claimed by another individual."

I think that is what is fair and reasonable. The member opposite may indicate that somehow he wouldn't otherwise have found out about this expense, but the

fact is you did find out about it. All expenses connected with that particular lunch became apparent through your FOI request, so it was there. What we're really talking about is making sure it's

properly noted.

Mr. Tory: The Premier's last comment is actually very helpful, because we did have to make the FOI request and we did have to wait, in the

case of your Minister of Finance, seven months to get the information in question. So since today is the day for Web sites, I would like to ask you if you would agree to go one step further than

this clarification that you've put in place and agree to meet the standard they've had in Ottawa for some time, which is that all ministers' expenses are posted on-line every three months. Will you

agree to meet that standard and move to that level of transparency and disclosure so we don't have to ask for this stuff and wait seven months for it?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: What we're talking about here is a Conservative government bill: the Cabinet Ministers' and Opposition Leaders' Expenses

Review and Accountability Act, 2002. It's a fairly fresh piece of legislation. It has become apparent to me that it required further clarification. That is exactly what we have done. We are

building on a foundation which is relatively recent. We think it makes good sense to move forward with this clarification, and that's what I've done.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I don't know why we couldn't take the technology we're using for Web sites, which I'm going to ask

about now, and use it for expenses.

My question is for the Premier. In your last election platform, you made the following promise, one of many: "We will begin by setting and meeting standards

for cardiac care, cancer care, total joint replacement and MRI/CT scans."

On what date can we expect those goals or standards, as you promised, to ensure that patients are receiving timely care?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'll just take the opportunity at the outset to congratulate the Minister

of Health and everybody involved in our public health care system for helping us to collect information which has never been collected before in our province and to make that information public for

all Ontarians. It has never been collected before.

In keeping with an agreement reached this weekend at a meeting attended by the Minister of Health, benchmarks will be established in common by all the

Ministers of Health by year-end. Then, beyond that, individual provinces and territories will establish their own particular targets, which will be milestones along the way to achieving those

benchmarks. I expect all of that will happen before year-end.

Mr. Tory: In fact, the Cardiac Care Network, Cancer Care Ontario and the Ontario joint replacement registry, which you shut down, were already

measuring wait times independently. Premier, the Ontario Medical Association president, Dr. Gregory Flynn, said your announcement today, while an attempt to provide information, does little to

address patient care. In fact, he said that the wait times Web site "tells us there are wide variations between institutions, wide variations in wait lists. And it's surprising that there are some

fairly significant institutions that have not reported their wait list data. Having the information [doesn't create] another anaesthesiologist; [it] doesn't open another operating room."

My question is this: What process did you announce this morning so people could act on the information they see on the Web site and actually go somewhere and

get a procedure done in a shorter time, which then might actually go an inch toward meeting your promise of reducing wait times? That's what you said you would do.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I can tell you, and I know the leader of the official opposition knows this, that you can't manage what you can't measure.

For the first time, we are collecting this information. Beyond that -- it's been said so often that it verges on the trite, but the fact of the matter is, it's true -- information is power. Doctors

and patients now have access to reliable, recent data. ICES, for example, produces data. The last round of data they collected predates our government. That's how old that was.

This comes from July of this year. We intend to update this on a bi-monthly basis. This enables patients and, in particular, their family doctors to sit down

together and make an informed decision about where they want to proceed with a further procedure that requires the assistance of a specialist. It's the beginning. We expect, and we know for a fact,

that we'll be able to make marked improvement as we move forward, and we're very much looking forward to the next rollout of new data.

Mr. Tory: The Premier's government shut down the independent wait times registry that monitored joint replacements, including hips and knees.

You changed the wait time

definitions for a lot of these procedures by cutting out the time that it takes for a patient to see a specialist in the first place, and this is often the longest time of

all.

I'm informed there is absolutely no process in place to make use of this wait time information, and furthermore, that with the exception of what are called

unlikely instances of professional courtesy, someone calling from one city to another after that chat with their family doctor won't be able to get the procedure done in the time stated on the Web

site.

Mr. Premier, you had the words "Reduce wait times" behind you this morning; those were the words that were behind you this morning. What specifically will this

Web site do to help patients to reduce their wait times? What process will they follow?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me tell you that we've already funded 240,000 more procedures in those five targeted areas. What we're going to

demonstrate over time -- and it's something that no other government was prepared to take on, because they were, frankly, afraid of linking themselves directly to measurable progress. Nobody over

there ever even suggested that they should take that on before, and we've embraced that.

Let me tell you about some of the things that have already been said in terms of wait times:

From Dr. Robert Bell of Princess Margaret Hospital: "What would have been an eight- to 10-week wait for cancer surgery, wait for MRI scan and wait for an

initial consultation and diagnosis has been reduced to less than three weeks."

"The current waiting time of three months for outpatient elective scans will be eliminated" -- that from Julia Dumanian, CEO of Cambridge Memorial

Hospital.

We are now running MRIs at times of the day when they were never, ever run before. It's remarkable what you can do when you commit yourself to getting the job

done, and we're doing it.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier, and it concerns the health of a remote First Nations community. I

think the situation is a disgrace, but I want to know what the Premier thinks. This is an Ontario community where the drinking water contains sewer water, where the tap water is giving children

skin and stomach diseases, and where their water quality problems have become so desperate that residents are forced to beg for assistance. That's the situation today at Kashechewan, which is a

remote First Nation in northern Ontario. Two years ago, the Ontario Clean Water Agency issued this report warning that the situation there is a Walkerton in waiting.

Premier, can you explain what your government did with this report from the Ontario Clean Water Agency? And have you done anything to address the water quality

problems in this community?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The leader of the NDP raises an important issue, and I fully support the

sentiment expressed in that. We have a real challenge on our hands. More importantly, the people in that community have some real challenges that they are grappling with.

I can say that the Minister of the Environment, Laurel Broten, as did her predecessor, Leona Dombrowsky, has written to the federal government saying that we

stand at the ready, that we are prepared to assist in whatever capacity we might be called upon to do so. The leader of the NDP knows that the reserve is the subject of federal jurisdiction. I can

say that the Minister of Natural Resources was also in touch with his counterpart on Parliament Hill earlier today.

Again, I will repeat this government's commitment in this House, one that's been made directly to the federal government: We stand at the ready and we're

willing to assist in whatever way we're called upon to do so.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, the citizens of this First Nation are citizens of Ontario. This is a report of your agency, the Ontario Clean Water

Agency, which says that this is another Walkerton in waiting. It says that the water is drawn from ditches and sewage lagoons. It says that they are forced to patch equipment that doesn't work with

electrical tape, that they have meters and gauges that are broken. We know that there's E. coli in the water so bad that doctors are urging total evacuation of the community. You're saying that the

sum total of your government's response was to write a letter to the federal government?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: To the Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I would remind the member that even Justice

O'Connor, when this particular segment came up under those deliberations in the Walkerton inquiry, had stated that water is a federal jurisdiction when it comes to reserves. But we are very

concerned, and no Ontarian should have to put up with such Third World conditions. Quite frankly, I am personally disgusted by the situation in that community, as is this government.

I have been in contact with Andy Scott, the federal Minister of Indian and Native Affairs. I've told him of my concern about this and have asked him to take

immediate action, and that if Health Canada declares this an emergency, Ontario is prepared to carry out an evacuation immediately.

Mr. Hampton: I want to point out that the school is now closed in the community because the water is so contaminated. A physician who has

visited there found skin lesions on children because of skin infections related to how bad the water is. Your government has had no trouble visiting the community: A year ago, the Minister of

Health was there to visit. He saw how bad it was. He was there long enough to make some promises, none of which have been fulfilled. Six months ago, your Minister of Community Safety was there. He

said that the situation was deplorable. But I want to know, Premier: Has your government done anything -- done one thing -- other than write a letter to your federal cousins?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: We have a big interest in this. In fact, ministers of the crown visited the community over this year. Again, I want to

reiterate what the Premier has said, that the Ministry of the Environment has stepped up and said, "We are offering all the technical assistance that we have at our disposal in Ontario." It is up

to INAC to authorize that and work in partnership with us, as it is under federal jurisdiction -- and that's the problem here -- but we are prepared to step up to the plate. I said to the minister,

"I want you to make a decision as soon as possible on this, because we're prepared to act," and we need that authority from the federal government to do that.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. I think we know the story: You've written a letter to the federal

government; that's about it.

Premier, before the last election, you railed against governments using partisan self-promotion paid for with tax dollars. But today, with much fanfare, you

launched a wait times Web site already being described as "virtually useless" for people. Doctors say, "It won't work."

Premier, how is a virtually useless Web site that won't work for people anything but government using public money for partisan self-promotion?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Well, the leader of the NDP may want to dismiss the historic collection

of wait time information and its availability for all Ontarians to access by means of the World Wide Web as not being particularly useful, but I'm eager to see how many hits we get on that Web

site; I'm eager to see how many Ontarians are actually interested in wait times at their local hospital and throughout the province of Ontario. I think Ontarians are very interested in knowing what

wait times are in their community; I think Ontarians are very interested in knowing what kind of progress their government is making at getting wait times down.

The member opposite may not be interested in visiting the Web site, but something tells me that thousands of Ontarians will be visiting that Web site.

Mr. Hampton: I'm interested in what physicians had to say: that this Web site will be of no use to patients because it's physicians who make

the referrals, not patients.

But Premier, you said that banning partisan, taxpayer-funded promotion was a very high priority. In fact, your minister, Mr. Phillips, said, "This legislation

is the central part of our democratic renewal initiative. It's a priority of this government and, if I may say, it's a high priority of our Premier." He said that when the Government Advertising

Act was passed by this Legislature over a year ago.

Premier, it was passed a year ago by this Legislature. Can you tell me why, if it was such a high priority for your government, it hasn't been proclaimed into

law yet by the McGuinty cabinet?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The Minister of Government Services.

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): I'll say two things: One is that the government is acting in everything it does as if

the act was fully proclaimed.

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. Phillips: No, no; but the Auditor General has said this: He needs to make sure that he recruits staff, who are able to implement this

act.

Recognize that this is the first time in the world

an act like this has been proclaimed. We are plowing new ground here. The Auditor General wants make sure he

has the staff on hand to implement it. We are probably only a few weeks away from doing it now, but we've been working carefully with the Auditor General to make sure that when he begins to have

his staff on board, we do this thing completely well, because we are plowing ground for the rest of the world on this particular legislation.

Mr. Hampton: I say to the Premier that this is not the responsibility of the Auditor General. This was supposed to be your high priority,

Premier, and a year after the legislation was passed, you still haven't proclaimed it into law.

This is part of their continuing theme, however. You promised to combat the cynicism that people were feeling about politics. You promised to end the junketing

by cabinet ministers, but your cabinet ministers have been caught billing Twix bars, $9 Cokes and $70 steaks to the public. You promised to clean up political fundraising, but tonight you'll be

raising money with a cabinet minister who uses taxpayer-subsidized funds to buy everything from tuxedos to theatre tickets. You promised to ban partisan, self-promotional ads, but to date you

haven't done that either. Premier, why should people --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Response?

Hon. Mr. Phillips: You lose credibility with me when you say something in here that you know is frankly not true on the Twix bar. I would just

say --

Interjections.

The Speaker: You might want to rethink that.

Hon. Mr. Phillips: I withdraw that.

I just say to the public, recognize what we're doing with this advertising act. No other jurisdiction in the world has legislation like this. The Auditor

General wants to make absolutely certain he has the staff and proper procedures in place to implement it properly. Other jurisdictions are watching this. We are going to do it right. We, as a

government, are acting as if the legislation has been proclaimed. The Auditor General is getting the staff on board, doing the necessary training, and in the weeks ahead we will proclaim it.

I will just say to the public that we are plowing new ground here with legislation that the rest of the world is watching, and we are going to do it right. We

are going to do it properly, and we will lead the world on it.

Interjections.

The Speaker: The member for Niagara Centre knows that that wasn't appropriate. New question.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question today is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. As the minister

responsible for public safety in Ontario, exactly what have you done under your watch to eliminate gun and gang violence in the province?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): We as a government -- and this isn't just a one-ministry

initiative; it's an initiative between the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services and the Ministry of the Attorney General -- have done many things. We have brought together on the

Attorney General's side a whole range of initiatives. In my particular ministry, we have brought forward legislation that mandates the reporting of gunshot wounds. We have put together a plan, I'm

sure you know, to bring forward 1,000 new officers who will help with that particular initiative. And we are working on a whole other area of getting rid of the causes of some of these things.

Legislation is before the House right now on marijuana grow-ops, the proceeds of which go to bring guns into this province. These are all part of our plan to be tough not only on crime but on the

causes of crime.

Mr. Dunlop: Of course, we haven't hired any of those 1,000 new officers yet, and it won't be even in this year.

Minister, under your watch we lost our 44th victim to yet another gun slaying last night. On December 21 last year, our leader, John Tory, called on the

McGuinty government to hold an emergency summit on youth violence, and in the first two months of the new year to appoint an all-party select committee to travel the province to listen to parents

and community leaders.

On June 28, Mr. Tory hosted the violence affecting youth summit, attended by various stakeholders from across the GTA. On July 13, John Tory called on Premier

McGuinty to appoint a committee made up of one caucus member from each party to review the Safe Schools Act. Since last January, John Tory has called on the McGuinty government over 20 times to

take action on guns and gun violence.

Minister, Ontarians are demanding leadership on this issue. How many more lives will be lost under your watch before we begin to take serious action on this

critical matter? When can we expect real leadership on this critical issue?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I find it interesting that last Friday both the leader of the official opposition and I attended a press conference prepared

by UMOVE, United Mothers Opposing Violence Everywhere, in which they told us a heart-rending story of all these young members of our community who have been shot. Their message was not police, not

banning of guns; it was working within the community, working within their families.

This is something that both of us spoke to; both of us were made aware of the situation. That isn't the first time that has happened. I have been to several

forums with members of the community who have been the victims of these particular horrible offences, and they all say the same thing: There isn't one solution; it's a combined solution, where we

have to get the police, the community and law enforcement regulations in place to be able to deal with this.

HEALTH SERVICES

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question for the Minister of Health. This weekend patients suffering from rare diseases told you

they'd waited long enough. Their wait for treatments for disorders like MPS and Fabry's is infinite in Ontario because you don't have a plan to fund treatment for these rare disorders.

One eight-year-old with MPS said, "If we don't get treatment we'll get sick, and if we get sick we'll die. We need treatment available so we can live and be

part of the Canadian family."

Minister, you promised a plan for rare disorders at last year's health summit. Where is the plan?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I do wish to thank the honourable member for the question, and particularly

for the opportunity to highlight the progress that was made by first ministers related to the provision of product for these two very rare diseases.

We do have a challenge, which has been well identified, of having an appropriate regulatory response in the case of rare diseases, because it's so difficult to

have the research to identify the benefits being provided by the product. As a result, the FPT ministers this past weekend came together, with support from the federal government, on a plan to be

able to move forward with a time-limited research proposal that will include advancing product to these individuals.

We are going to move forward very expeditiously, but it is necessary to engage the companies on a risk-sharing basis and to have an appropriate research

proposal, and it will be timely.

Ms. Martel: The question was, how long do these folks have to wait? The minister made a similar promise over a year ago. We're here a year

later and there's nothing in place for Ontarians who have rare disorders -- Ontarians like Darren Nesbit, who suffers from Fabry's and has been to this Legislature on more than one occasion to urge

this minister to do something; Ontarians like Donna Strauss, whose husband, John, died from complications of Fabry's disease. The minister wrote to Donna on July 3, 2004, after John died, "As you

struggle to deal with such a huge loss I wish to assure you that I will make certain of coverage for Fabry. Don't let any stories about the drug's slow approval add to concern about coverage." That

was over a year ago -- and still nothing for patients who suffer from Fabry's in this province.

I say to the minister again, people have heard your promises. They've heard them for over a year now. Where's the plan to provide coverage for people with rare

disorders in Ontario?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Well, I'd say this too: People have heard a lot from that member, but the one thing they remember well is that she is a

member of a political party that when in government in the province of Ontario actually reduced the amount of money available in the Ontario drug benefit, and she has the audacity to ask a question

like that.

This past weekend, federal, provincial and territorial ministers came together. I looked Darren Nesbit in the eye, I looked Donna Strauss in the eye, this

weekend and on several other occasions. I have told Darren Nesbit every day in the days since I met him that I have worked toward a resolution on that. We made significant progress this weekend to

create a research capacity that will provide product for rare diseases for people in this country. To hear a question from that member who has such an awful record related to the provision of

product is a little galling. To these patients, I send them the message of progress and that it is the desire of ministers to move forward expeditiously on a risk-shared basis --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

IDENTITY THEFT

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a question for the Minister of Government Services on the --

Interjection.

Mr. Ruprecht: You know what's going to happen when you keep teasing a bulldog. One of these days, you're going to get bitten, OK?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Order. Questions should be placed through the Speaker.

Mr. Ruprecht: Mr. Minister, you already know the statistics that were released by First Data Corp. in their report. It found that 6.8% of

adults have been victimized by identity theft and a striking 43.4% of adults have received a phishing contact. This survey was released only days after two large US banks were targets of thieves

who stole 700,000 financial records of consumers.

Closer to home, the Toronto Star and W-Five reported a number of privacy breaches by our banks. We strongly believe that Canadians should not sit back and wait

for another security breach. Therefore, I ask the minister the following questions: What is our government --

The Speaker: I think there was a question there somewhere. Minister?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): If I'm not mistaken, the question was, what is our government doing to protect against

identity theft?

Let me just say that it is a very serious issue and the member from Davenport has been actively involved in this. In early July, we issued a discussion paper,

and all the ministers across the country, and the territories and the federal government, issued the same discussion paper. It identifies, I think, the 10 key issues around identity theft. It asked

for input by the middle of September. That input is now in. We're analyzing that. It is our hope that the ministers will meet in the winter of 2006, in the next few months, to review that and to

look at possible legislation for the fall of 2006. So we are moving on it. It is a very serious problem that the member has identified. As I say, I think we've identified the 10 key issues and

we're looking for long-term, solid solutions.

Mr. Ruprecht: Thank you, Mr. Minister. In my own case, the Toronto-Dominion Bank and CIBC wrote to me explaining that my security may have

been breached regarding my own account. I'm sure that I'm not alone and not the only one to whom they wrote this letter.

More importantly, W-Five reported two days ago that the Secret Service and the FBI took down a ring of cyber criminals known as Shadowcrew. Just one lone

member of this gang had a Web site where he was selling half a million stolen credit cards. Interestingly, the Secret Service approached the RCMP about the Canadian connection to Shadowcrew, but

the Mounties passed on the case, handing it over to local city police, saying they had limited investigative resources. In other words, this is not a priority for them.

If the RCMP can't protect consumers, what can ordinary Ontario residents do to protect themselves?

Hon. Mr. Phillips: Again, I say to the member, the long-term solutions will rest in that paper I talked about. In the short term, my advice to

Ontarians is that one thing you can do is look on our Web site. The Ministry of Government Services has a Web site and we have several practical areas that they can look at: "Protecting your

identity", "How can I reduce my risk?", "How do I know if my identity has been stolen?", "What if I am a victim of identity theft?", etc. -- some good practical suggestions there. My predecessor,

Mr. Watson, last year issued an instruction guide on how you can protect your personal identity. He also did the same thing for businesses, as an assistance to business.

My advice to the member from Davenport in the short term is: Take a look on our Web site. I think there are very good, practical suggestions that would help

the people of Ontario protect their identity, and we're dealing Canada-wide with some long-term solutions to the major issues there.

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services regarding Bill 183, the adoption

disclosure bill. You have claimed that a no-contact provision will protect those who do not wish to reunite. You cite the state of New South Wales in Australia as your example of the success of a

no-contact provision. In committee on September 15, according to your staff, there has never been a prosecution for the past 15 years, all the time that this legislation was in place in New South

Wales. Further, on September 15 in committee, your staff promised to supply the members of the committee with the sources of information they had in New South Wales regarding this issue within

seven days. It's now a month and we haven't heard anything; the committee hasn't heard anything from your staff.

This bill is a mess. Your staff is not keeping its word. Will you postpone the debate on this bill, which is to be called tomorrow night, until the committee

is satisfied --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. The question has been asked.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): Thank you very much for the

question. I hope that we will go forward and have a very successful debate, perhaps this week in this House -- as early as tomorrow.

I will say to the member opposite, in discussion about Australia and their experience, that what we did and have been doing for several months is simply

picking up the phone and calling people who were active at the time to see how they changed their laws in Australia and how it has worked. We have been on the phone repeatedly.

Moreover, a point that I think members of this House will be interested in is that they passed, some time ago, their review of legislation that they brought in

five years ago that didn't have a disclosure veto. With all of the naysayers who may have been around in that time, they had such an open opportunity to change and strengthen the legislation and in

fact they didn't because what they found was that the sky didn't fall. What they found were tremendous examples of people being reunited, in many cases, and being contacted when it was appropriate.

So in fact it has worked quite well in Australia.

We're happy to pass along those numbers to the member opposite, and perhaps he should have gotten them sooner.

Mr. Sterling: But you see, this is specifically the problem. In fact, her staff did indicate that there was some discontent with the

no-contact provision in New South Wales, and we asked for that information.

At first reading, you proposed to give open access to adoption records to men who had raped women and to people who had abused their own children. Now you make

those affected people plead in front of a tribunal in order to keep their privacy from these criminals.

At the last minute, your ministry discovered it had inadvertently shut down all disclosures under the existing system for the 18-month period of time between

the new and the old legislation.

This legislation is a mess. Why don't you follow Alberta, BC and Newfoundland and pass a bill that can be implemented successfully --

The Speaker: Thank you. The question has been asked.

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: I appreciate that second question, but I think that in this debate we do have to stick with the facts, and the facts are

these. As we expressed on first reading of this bill, a number of items around protections for people who may come of harm were always going to be built into the regulations of the bill --

something that doesn't happen until after that bill is passed. We can't speak to what those regulations would be, or that would be considered in contempt of the House.

What we did in response to questions, mostly from the Leader of the Opposition, was that we said, "So that you will understand what our intent is during the

regulatory process after the bill is passed, we will amend the bill and put those protections in the bill," which we did.

This member asking the question chooses to characterize it in that way. I have to say that we simply disagree. The truth is that we will have, I hope, after

third reading, a balanced approach so that people have a right to know and people have a right to their privacy.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. At 2 a.m. this morning, a 21-year-old man was shot dead in Toronto.

At 9 a.m., seven hours later, two men shot at each other through rush-hour traffic at Bloor and Sherbourne. Day after day, the gun violence continues in the largest city in Ontario, and your

government's response has been to hold press conferences. Premier, when is the McGuinty government going to take action and make the significant social and community investments that are needed to

address gun violence issues in this city?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Attorney General.

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): In terms of investments in the community, which is something the member referred to, since our

government took office we have been funding a youth-at-risk summer jobs initiative, which created 300 jobs for youth at risk. Those are 300 lives, 300 people, who were given an alternative to

sharing their lives with a gun and bringing human misery upon a community.

That's why we invested $20 million, in annualized funding, to reduce user fees for and increase access to community-based schools. Every hour that those

schools are open is an alternative and another opportunity for these young people.

That's why we invested in five projects so that approximately 100 at-risk youth can train to become apprentices for skilled trades.

We have, we are and we will continue to do all that we can to address not only this horrific gun crime but the causes of it.

Mr. Hampton: I say to the Premier, people are being shot on the streets of Toronto in record numbers, and what your minister recites are pilot

projects that community representatives have told your government are inadequate, and also that the funding runs out on.

Where, they ask, are the after-school programs that have been cut and need to be restored? Where is the money for adequate youth employment strategies? Where

is the strategy to deal with the hundreds of young people who are being expelled from school and simply being put on the street?

I say again, people have heard the platitudes, they have heard the speeches from your government; where is the funding and where are the strategies to take on

a gun violence problem that becomes more serious every week?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: It is very serious, and there's no question about it. These people who have lost their lives in the past few days -- it's

totally, totally unacceptable. We have been and we will continue to make progress as we do provide community programs.

I'll just give you one example, I say to the member. Ilene Watt, the executive director of Basketball Ontario, wrote to the Honourable Jim Watson saying this:

"It has made an incredible difference to the delivery of basketball programs by our member clubs across the province" -- what we have done. "The seven years of cutbacks in funding to the school

system by the previous government actually eroded the number of children playing house league by an estimated 10,000" people "as gym fees continued to rise." When we came into government, we took

action to reverse that, to change that and to give those kids that opportunity that they never had before.

There is much, much more to come.

HOSPICE CARE

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Minister, your announcement earlier this month

about end-of-life care for Ontarians struck a chord with my constituents of Thornhill and Concord. The end of our lives can be some of the most touching and spiritual moments we experience. Part of

our announcement was about allowing more Ontarians to spend these final months and days in the comfort of their homes, surrounded by the love of family and friends. Minister, can you tell the House

about how more end-of-life services will be provided to Ontarians in their homes?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I think all families struggle with the challenge related to the provision of

appropriate care for loved ones at the final stages of their lives. I'm proud of our government and our province's ability to move forward with the expansion of end-of-life care through a

$115-million investment over three years. The first phase of this in this fiscal year involves $39 million to expand the support that is offered through community care access centres by $27

million, to provide $6 million for those organizations that are providing hospice services to people in their own homes. What I'm most excited to remind members of is that we've begun to build a

network of residential hospices, 30 of them, across our province. They'll be developed and funded over the course of the next three years, with the first nine of those receiving support already.

That's in places like Brantford, Hamilton, Burlington and Etobicoke. All across the province we're moving forward to provide better care.

Mr. Racco: I also understand that part of the expansion of end-of-life care is expanding the availability of residential hospices in the

province. I believe that this kind of care and, most importantly, the options for this kind of care, will provide returns that cannot be calculated by dollars and cents.

I saw from your announcement that York region is one of the four communities encouraged to initiate planning for a residential hospice. I believe that my

constituents deserve the options that a residential hospice can offer. Can you tell me how York region can organize a proposal that will see my constituents have access to this new hospice?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I said a moment ago that a strong element of our plan is the development of 30 residential hospices across the province.

We are very, very proud that many communities in Ontario have taken up this initiative. Of course, there is a tremendous degree of love and community support involved in the provision of this kind

of care.

We did, in analyzing it, though, note that some communities -- I can remember three of the four at top of mind: Sarnia, Kingston and York region -- stood as

places where we did feel that there was a necessity of the development of residential hospices. Accordingly, we have held a spot in line and intend to work with communities for such a model to

evolve. We think it's important to be able to evolve it, to have end-of-life care, to care for people at home, in hospitals and, of course, in residential hospices. I appreciate the capacity to

move forward based on the strength of the volunteer component, which in hospice is so enormous.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Minister of Finance: Over the past few weeks Ontario homeowners have been receiving their

property assessments from MPAC. Let me give you a bit of a list: in Toronto, assessments are up an average of 12%; in Brantford, almost 16%; in the Hamilton area, almost 16%; in communities in

Huron and Bruce counties, upwards of 20%.

Minister, will you commit today to lower the education property tax rate so that taxpayers in these communities are not faced with massive tax increases?

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I will remind the member opposite that the legislation

which his government proposed and passed created this system -- and still supports it, I presume, unless we're doing an about-face.

Higher assessments do not necessarily lead to higher taxes. Indeed, across most communities there will be some up, and there will be some down. If reassessment

results in an overall increase in property values, those municipalities can reduce the tax rate effect and offset the increase, given the way the assessment process works.

The Ombudsman is looking at this system. We'll see what the results are once we get them in, but I remind the member opposite again, the changes in property

value assessments don't necessarily lead to property tax increases, and I'm surprised he doesn't know that, because it was his government that voted for and passed this particular legislation.

Mr. Hudak: I think the minister very well knows that he has the ability to set the education property tax rate. That's set provincially. We've

heard your answer to municipalities. It's not, Minister -- with all due respect, what I asked you about. I'm asking you to do your part. You are part of a government that has increased taxes

substantially on working families, part of a government that has increased hydro rates substantially on working families -- new user fees. Minister, people in Ontario are finding it harder and

harder to make ends meet under Dalton McGuinty. Just tell me one thing today and assure residents across the province that you will lower the provincial education tax rate and not have a massive

stealth property tax increase going into your coffers.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Unlike the previous government, this government has heard the public's concerns and responded. Let me remind him, we have

increased the property tax credit for seniors from $500 to $625, an increase of 25%. We've altered timelines by amending the Assessment Act itself.

MPAC has responded to some of our recommendations in terms of improving their level of customer service.

This government's priorities are health care and education. We're reducing wait times in health care. We've provided $6 billion to reinvest in post-secondary

education, in a way that that government never did. We have increased funding for municipal infrastructure investment and begun to undo the damage you created when you downloaded services on to

municipalities. This was your legislation --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

BY-ELECTION IN

SCARBOROUGH-ROUGE RIVER

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Premier. Some six weeks ago, the member for Scarborough-Rouge River resigned, and

for the last six weeks the people of that constituency have not had someone to speak for them in this Legislature. You must be ready, because you bypassed the democratic process of your own party

by appointing your Liberal candidate. Surely, you must be ready. When can the people of Scarborough-Rouge River expect to have a representative in this House?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I can appreciate the member opposite's impatience. I want to take this

opportunity to congratulate our new ambassador to the Dominican Republic for the wonderful work he has done for some 20 years on behalf of his constituents.

I can tell the member opposite that we will be making an announcement in due course.

Mr. Prue: Mr. Premier, I'd like to remind you of what you said before the last election. You said, "Elections used to be designed to foster

public participation. Now the timing and rules are cynically manipulated to reduce turnout and minimize exposure of the government's record." Then you went on to say, "It is time to put the "silly

guessing game" behind us once and for all." That is my question to you today. When are you going to put the silly guessing game behind us? When are you going to call the by-election?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Had I known I was keeping the member opposite up nights, when he's so obsessed about this issue -- I can tell you that we

have now, for the first time in Ontario, fixed election dates. The member opposite knows that a by-election must be called within six months. I would simply ask that he stay tuned and be ready.

PATIENT TRANSFERS

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): My question is for the Attorney General. I've been hearing the concerns of my constituents in

Lambton-Kent-Middlesex regarding the transfer of a patient from the Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre to the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto. My constituents are expressing

public safety concerns based on their history with this patient. Minister, can you tell us and my constituents, what is the ministry's position on this transfer?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): As the member knows, the matter is before the court, so the purpose of the discussion here in the

Legislature needs to be as much about sharing information as anything else. The crown attorney has got to be in a position to make an independent judgment on matters such as this, and that's

exactly what happened. The crown attorney opposed the transfer request at the hearing before the Ontario Review Board. The Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre has appealed the review board

decision, and the ministry has joined the appeal. A date for the hearing has not yet been scheduled. That's as much information, I think, as I can share with you and this House.

Mrs. Van Bommel: What steps have been taken to ensure that the victims and their families are kept informed about the Ontario Review Board's

decision to transfer the patient to a medium-security facility in Toronto?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: I'm informed by crown counsel that the crown has contacted some of the victims' families and that all efforts are being made

to reach the remaining victims and their families. I understand that the appeal process has been explained and discussed with the victims' families and that crown counsel will continue to receive

input from the victims and their families and keep them apprised of the progress. This is a very important principle, generally speaking, obviously: that victims be kept informed as best as

possible and in the most timely fashion possible. That's certainly a principle that we always pursue. It will be a requirement that, come January, will be entrenched in our laws in Canada, but for

some time now, it has been the position of the Ministry of the Attorney General that we have to make all efforts to inform victims and their families of any changes in circumstances with respect to

this person, and we will continue to do so as this matter is before the Ontario Court of Appeal.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I also have a question for the Attorney General. The minister will know that Karla Homolka has a

hearing today in Montreal with respect to the 810 conditions that were placed on her following her release. According to press reports, Ontario will not be represented at that hearing. The families

will be represented. Their lawyer has indicated -- I'm quoting from a story in today's National Post -- that the French and Mahaffy families "feel to not be involved in the process at all would be

to abandon their daughters."

Mr. Minister, why did you not feel it was necessary to have representation at this hearing today?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): As the member knows, or ought to know, as he is a former Solicitor General, in the province of Quebec,

jurisdiction goes to that province. So it was in their capacity as Quebec crown attorneys that our Ontario crowns appeared before a provincial court in Joliette to seek conditions upon the release

of Homolka under

section 810.2. The purpose of having the local crowns was to ensure that we had appropriate information and a direct funnel between victims and the local crown. We also had a crown

who had significant familiarity with the facts, the offender and the offence. I can tell the member that that very crown, Mr. Ramsay, is in court today with our Quebec crowns providing all the

assistance that they seek from him.

Mr. Runciman: According to the press, they're not interveners and not actively participating, as the families are through affidavits.

My supplementary deals with press reports surrounding the fact that the French and Mahaffy families were unable to attend the hearing because of the expenses

involved. In fact, Tim Danson, their lawyer, has indicated that there was no assistance, that the families couldn't afford to pay for his services, so he himself, because of his interest and

concern, is paying the costs of being in attendance today.

According to the latest reports, you have at least $40 million in the victims' justice fund. I ask you today, why in the world would you not be paying the

expenses of the French and Mahaffy families so they can be there today? Why are you not doing that?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: The member is making a suggestion that is quite inaccurate. Every single week, and in some cases every single day, there has

been contact between our counsel, Mr. Danson and the families. I have personally met with the families on several occasions. We have at every moment ensured that their every thought and every

opportunity for input was taken into account. There has been extensive consultation. We have been working with these victims every single step of the way. That is the position of Mr. Danson, that

is the position of those families, and if there is any suggestion by the member otherwise, he's quite mistaken.

LOBBYISTS

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Premier, Patrick Dion is a registered lobbyist. One of the reasons why lobbyists are required to register

is so that people here are put on notice that they are, in fact, lobbyists. Why would you find it acceptable that Mr. Dion, as a registered lobbyist here at Queen's Park, organized a substantial

fundraiser for one of your cabinet ministers, specifically the minister of fitness? Mr. Dion should have to have something akin to an arm's-length relationship with the government if indeed he's

going to be calling upon the government to give his client particular business contracts and wheelings and dealings.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The member opposite will know that we have introduced real-time

disclosure legislation by means of a bill in this House that's going to provide real-time disclosure of donations of $100 or more to Ontario political parties. Beyond that, we are establishing a

citizens' jury to look at electoral finance reform, which might encompass things that go outside of real-time disclosure.

If the member opposite is aware of a rule that has been broken, then I would ask that he bring that to my attention or to the Integrity Commissioner's

attention.

Again, we are the first government that has decided, in a practical, real and meaningful way, to introduce legislation that would mandate real-time disclosure,

and beyond that, we're asking a citizens' jury to take a look at the broader issues of electoral finance reform.

MEMBER'S BIRTHDAY

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I know that members of this assembly would want to join me in wishing Ms.

Andrea Horwath a happy birthday.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Happy 29th, Andrea.

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent upon the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector, to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I've also signed this.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Further petitions -- but first, can we have a little order here? I'm having difficulty hearing the

petitions.

CANCER TREATMENT

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I'm very proud to present these petitions that were brought to me today by Catherine Jordan, Jennifer

Harwood and Lori Borsos from Hamilton, and they read as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas we are asking for funding for Velcade to be available in Ontario. Ontario is the only province in Canada not currently making funding available for

this drug, even though approximately 40% of people diagnosed with multiple myeloma in Canada are from Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To push the approval of Velcade through the review process and make funding available for patients in Ontario immediately, as it is in every other province of

Canada."

I proudly sign my name to this petition, because it has names on it from every community across this province, including Hamilton, Barrie, Toronto, Sudbury,

Welland, Niagara Falls, Burlington, Brantford, Grimsby -- the list goes on and on.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition which was delivered to me by Mr. Sonny Sansone, a community activist in my

riding. It's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas the McGuinty government has contributed $301 million to the Canada-Ontario affordable housing program;

"Whereas this program will produce 5,320 new units of affordable housing and provide rent subsidies for up to 5,000 low-income households;

"Whereas the $116 million allocated to the city of Toronto will assist several hundred families across the city;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To support the McGuinty government's commitment to affordable housing and to urge the government to keep affordable housing on the provincial agenda."

I'll affix my signature to this as I agree with this petition.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition here to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, signed by a great number of constituents.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent upon the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector, to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government with an upper-tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative;

"The undersigned demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to respect the will of the people as expressed in a democratic vote, and restore the

former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I'm in agreement and would affix my signature thereto.

GO TRANSIT TUNNEL

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I keep getting petitions about the dilapidated conditions on the St. Clair Avenue bridge near Keele Street. The

petition reads as follows:

"To the Parliament of Ontario, the minister of infrastructure services and the Minister of Transportation:

"Whereas GO Transit is presently planning to tunnel an area just south of St. Clair Avenue West and west of Old Weston Road, making it easier for GO trains to

pass a major rail crossing;

"Whereas TTC is presently planning a TTC right-of-way along all of St. Clair Avenue West, including the bottleneck caused by the dilapidated St. Clair

Avenue-Old Weston Road bridge;

"Whereas this bridge (underpass) will be: (1) too narrow for the planned TTC right-of-way, since it will have only one lane for traffic; (2) it is not safe for

pedestrians (it's about 50 metres long). It's dark and slopes on both east and west sides creating high banks for 300 metres; and (3) it creates a divide, a no man's land, between Old Weston Road

and Keele Street. (This was acceptable when the area consisted entirely of slaughterhouses, but now the area has 900 new homes);

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that GO Transit extend the tunnel beyond St. Clair Avenue West so that trains will pass under St. Clair Avenue West,

thus eliminating this eyesore of a bridge with its high banks and blank walls. Instead it will create a dynamic, revitalized community enhanced by a beautiful continuous cityscape with easy traffic

flow."

Since I agree with this petition, I am delighted to sign it.

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Sir Frederick Banting was the man who discovered insulin and was Canada's first Nobel Prize recipient; and

"Whereas this great Canadian's original homestead, located in the town of New Tecumseth, is deteriorating and in danger of destruction because of the inaction

of the Ontario Historical Society; and

"Whereas the town of New Tecumseth, under the leadership of Mayor Mike MacEachern and former Mayor Larry Keogh, has been unsuccessful in reaching an agreement

with the Ontario Historical Society to use part of the land to educate the public about the historical significance of the work of Sir Frederick Banting;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Minister of Culture and the Liberal government step in to ensure that the Banting homestead is kept in good repair and preserved for generations to

come."

I agree with the petition, and I've signed it.

HALTON RECYCLING PLANT

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for York North.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: Go ahead. That was my mistake. I'll get to the member for Beaches-East York next.

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas noxious odours from the Halton Recycling plant in Newmarket are adversely affecting the health and quality of life of residents and working people in

Newmarket; and

"Whereas local families have lost the enjoyment of their properties for themselves and their children, face threats to their health and well-being, and risk a

decline in the value of their homes; and

"Whereas for the 300 members of the nearby main RCMP detachment, as well as other workers in the area, the odours are making their working conditions

intolerable;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that the Minister of the Environment take immediate action to halt all noxious emissions and odours from the Halton

Recycling plant, and take all steps necessary to force Halton Recycling to comply with environmental rules, including closing the plant if the odour problems continue."

As I am in agreement, I will sign it

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Now that you are in my line of sight, the member for Beaches-East York.

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I have a petition that is slightly different from the one that I read a few minutes ago, and it reads as

follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty, MPP, as leader of the official opposition, made the following commitment: `I have committed that a Liberal government will ensure a

binding referendum is held to allow local citizens to determine whether or not to dismantle the amalgamated city'; and

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government with an upper-tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative; and

"Whereas the council of the city of Kawartha Lakes has demanded that the province of Ontario honour the results of the 2003 election as it pertains to the

minister's question;

"The undersigned demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to honour the commitment made by Dalton McGuinty and to respect the will of the people as

expressed in a democratic vote, and restore the former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I am in agreement and will affix my signature thereto.

HEALTH SERVICES

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as

follows:

"Whereas the McGuinty government is investing $24 billion more on our health between 2003-04 and 2007-08;

"Whereas the McGuinty government is increasing the number of family health teams to 150 by 2007-08 so that each Ontarian can have access to primary care within

their own community;

"Whereas waiting times are being reduced for cancer surgeries, cataract surgeries, cardiac procedures and MRI exams; and

"Whereas the McGuinty government has banned for-profit, pay-your-way-to-the-front health care, and is ensuring publicly owned, publicly funded and publicly

controlled health care in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To support the McGuinty government's commitment to public health care, including improved access, increased funding and greater accountability."

I agree with the contents of this petition. It's signed by Sonny Sansone and others from my community, and I affix my signature to it.

QUEENSWAY CARLETON HOSPITAL

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Queensway Carleton Hospital is one of the most efficient hospitals in the country;

"Whereas the Queensway Carleton Hospital's priority should be providing excellent patient care, not money for Paul Martin's Liberal government;

"Whereas the number of senior citizens served by the Queensway Carleton Hospital is growing rapidly in the west end of Ottawa and Nepean;

"Whereas the federal Liberal government led by Paul Martin has a surplus potentially as high as $10 billion;

"Whereas all provincial political parties in Ontario have acknowledged the significant fiscal imbalance;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Ontario Legislature call upon the federal Liberal government to immediately cancel its plans to dramatically increase the rent for the land now being used

by the Queensway Carleton Hospital, and that the hospital be charged only $1 rent per year."

I have signed this because I am in complete agreement. I am pleased that the NDP health critic and the Minister of Health have also signed it.

CANCER TREATMENT

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition that is signed by hundreds of people who are worried that Velcade is not covered in

Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas we are asking for funding for Velcade to be available in Ontario. Ontario is not currently making funding available for this drug, even though

approximately 40% of people diagnosed with multiple myeloma in Canada are from Ontario,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To push approval of Velcade through the review process and make funding available for patients in Ontario immediately."

I agree with the petitioners, and I have affixed my signature to this.

TENANT PROTECTION

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a petition addressed to the Parliament of Ontario. It reads as follows:

Whereas the so-called Tenant Protection Act ... has allowed landlords to increase rents well above the rate of inflation for new and old tenants alike;

"Whereas the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal (ORHT) created by this act regularly awards major and permanent additional rent increases to landlords to pay for

required one-time improvements and temporary increases in utility costs and this same act has given landlords wide-ranging powers to evict tenants; and

"Whereas our landlord, Sterling Karamar Property Management, has applied to the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) to add a fourth high-rise unit to our compound,

in order to circumvent city of Toronto restrictions on density and the city's opposition to its project;

"Whereas this project would lead to overcrowding in our densely populated community, reduce our precious green space, further drive up rents and do nothing to

solve the crisis in affordable rental housing;

"Whereas this project will drive away longer-term tenants partially shielded from the ... rent increases, thereby further reducing the number of relatively

affordable units in the city core; and ...

"Whereas our own MPP, Liberal Tony Ruprecht, called for a rent rollback (reduction) at a public event in June 2003 and spoke out against the proposed fourth

high-rise at a community meeting in November 2004;

"We, the undersigned residents of Doversquare Apartments in Toronto, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"To institute a rent freeze ... and ... rent increases are wiped out by inflation;

"To abrogate" the existing "`Tenant Protection Act' and draw up new landlord-tenant legislation which shuts down the notoriously pro-landlord ORHT and

reinstates real rent control, including an elimination of the Tory policy of `vacancy decontrol.'"

Since I agree with this, I affix my signature to it.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): This is a petition from people in Whitby and Brooklin.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I support the petition. I've signed my name.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): That is all of the time allowed for petitions. I would say that when members have lengthy petitions,

it would be expedient and in fact courteous if you were to paraphrase those petitions so that we can get as many as possible in in the allotted time.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENDING MANDATORY RETIREMENT

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

POUR ÉLIMINER LA RETRAITE

OBLIGATOIRE

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 19, 2005, on the motion for second reading of Bill 211,

An Act to amend the Human Rights Code and certain other Acts

to end mandatory retirement / Projet de loi 211, Loi modifiant le Code des droits de la personne et d'autres lois pour éliminer la retraite obligatoire.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for Niagara Centre.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I'm pleased to --

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): With his new haircut.

Mr. Kormos: Mr. Bradley notices the new haircut. Yes, indeed. I was at Slavko Baltich's barber shop on Saturday morning down in Welland South.

Slavko has raised his prices after Lord knows how many years. It's now $9 for a haircut rather than $8. So figure it out: $9 plus a $2 tip, and you're done for a good month and a half. So I tell

all of you, it's worth the drive to Welland to have your hair cut by Slavko -- Steve -- Baltich, who's been doing it for many, many years and who took over the shop from his uncle, as a matter of

fact. That family is a family that's played a prominent role in the history of Welland and Welland South and Crowland. I'm proud of the opportunity to have my hair cut by Slavko Baltich, not as

regularly as I should, perhaps, but I tell you, it'll be a couple of weeks before I need one again. I'm just so pleased that the government House leader has noticed the grooming effort on my

part.

Hon. Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): I did too.

Mr. Kormos: And in fact the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs noticed it as well. I was flattered.

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): Hey, how about me? I noticed it.

Mr. Kormos: Tony Ruprecht noticed it as well. Is there anybody else who wants to get their interjection recorded on Hansard?

The remarkable thing that I found -- and I've asked Steve Baltich about this. I said, "Steve, when I came to Queen's Park, I had colour in my hair, and over

the course of 16 or 17 years now it's gone very, very grey. How is it that other members, men, have come to Queen's Park with grey hair and acquired colour over their years of service?" I find that

a remarkable biological phenomenon. All I know is that you've got access to a gene pool that I've never heard of down where we come from. Isn't that remarkable?

You remember that I was skinny as well as having colour in my hair, and now I'm not so skinny and I'm very, very grey. Others came here with grey hair, and

through the course of parliamentary process, I presume -- I don't know which standing order applies -- they've acquired colour. And not only have they acquired colour, but some of these male

members have colour that changes from time to time; there are nuances to it. I congratulate them and I'd just make that observation. Steve Baltich, my barber, can't figure it out either, and he's

been cutting hair for a good chunk of time. Steve Baltich -- Slavko -- Welland South, $9, and it's well worth a $2 tip. You catch up on what's going on in the neighbourhood. He knows everything

that's worth knowing. If you want something told, you can leave it with Steve and Slavko will make sure that it gets --

Interjection.

Mr. Kormos: Look, that's work.

The government, I know, really wants to frame the bill in terms of retirement, but let's, rather, address it in terms of work. I am extremely grateful to

Kathleen Wynne, the member for Don Valley West. I'm hoping she has a chance to speak to the bill. She spoke to it briefly when she talked about the position that many women have, and I'll speak to

that again. But Ms. Kathleen Wynne, the member for Don Valley West, reminded me of the comment made by the American politician Paul Tsongas, a Democrat. Paul Tsongas is noted for, among other

things, having said this: "Nobody on his deathbed ever said, `I wish I had spent more time at the office.'" I was more than pleased that Ms. Wynne recalled that comment because, really, it

addresses the issue here in a very specific way.

Most of us -- you are, Speaker -- as baby boomers after the Second World War, recall that period of growth of technology, growth of prosperity, as one in which

working women and men dared to think about, contemplate and anticipate a world in Canada where people could work less rather than more, where people could retire earlier rather than later or not at

all. They dared, working women and men, to dream about, contemplate and fight for a five-day workweek. Oh, the economy was going to go to hell in a handbasket when workers only had to work five

days a week, and it wasn't too long before that that, really, the eight-hour day became a reality.

Where do you think the phrase "freedom" whatever -- "freedom 55", my foot. The phrase "freedom" acquired some incredible currency. People talk about being free

when they don't have to work any more, because there's work and then there's work.

The last time we talked to this, we talked about the huge gulf between, for instance, any one of us -- look, we are that smallest and, yes, elite portion of

people whose work is stuff that I'm sure every one of us truly enjoys, that we're enthusiastic about and that we like doing, and, notwithstanding everything, if the truth be known, we'd probably do

it for half the salary because we like doing it. Many professionals, white collar workers, are in the same position. They like doing what they do. But the vast majority of people who work -- who

labour -- do it because they have to.

Again, for a member of the Legislative Assembly, if it's particularly cold and you don't feel that well on a Tuesday morning, it's not the biggest deal to call

your staff at Queen's Park and say, "Tell the whip's office I won't be at the caucus meeting today because I'm not coming in until 10:30 or 11." I'm sure it's been done from time to time. You call

your constituency office staff and say, "Look, we've only got those two appointments on Friday afternoon. Can you reschedule them for next week and that way I can get a clear day?" I'm sure it has

been done from time to time.

But most labourers, most working women and men, don't say to their partner or their spouse, their husband or their wife, "Honey, call the plant and tell them I

won't be in until 10 this morning because I've got to get the snow tires put on the car," or "Heck, I just don't feel like it," or "Hey, it would be nice to have a clear Friday, so call the mine

site and tell them I won't be in today," or "Call the construction company and tell them that I won't be laying brick today or assembling wall frames, nailing two-by-fours out in cold, bitter

January or February weather." Most working people can't do that.

I appreciate that tradespeople have perhaps a leg up on the vast majority of workers who are, well, workers. You know that much has been written about the

alienating effect of labour when it is wage labour. Over the course of not just decades but centuries, much has been written about how artisans and artists, who have control over what they are

producing and the climate they produce it in, are prepared to do it in even less-than-satisfactory conditions because there's the joy that they take with the things they create or build, and most

workers don't have that.

Think about the so-called work ethic. I'm not sure -- well, I do know. Again, much has been written about the history and growth -- and you can read any number

of sources that talked about the growth of the so-called Protestant work ethic. I'm not sure that it was exclusive. By no means was it exclusively Protestant, but the fact that somehow if you don't

work, if you don't work hard and if you don't work to the point where it hurts, it's got to be bad for you; in other words, pleasure is bad. Leisure: For centuries the elite classes, the ruling

classes, the nobility, the very wealthy -- heck, working folks were perceived to be dangerous if they had leisure time. After all, why would working people need leisure time anyway, because they

don't know about the finer things in life.

Why are we talking about this legislation in the context of telling people that they should be working longer when -- what was it, Mr. Dunlop? Was it Vanity

Fair? Was that the magazine where Paris Hilton was featured on the front cover of this last issue? Here's a woman who is extremely wealthy, and she's celebrated because she hasn't worked a day in

her life. She's a folk hero; she's an icon. She's on the front cover of glamorous magazines, the slick glossies like Vanity Fair. She's not a model, she's not an entertainer, she's not a performer;

she's just rich and idle.

Why isn't anybody focusing on the rich and idle class and saying, "Heck, never mind about making working-class people work longer; let's get some of those rich

people to work even a little bit"? Why aren't we telling these high rollers, the Rolls-Royce/Maserati set, to start working even a little bit, to try working a couple of hours a day, for starters?

Let's do it maybe in a drop forge, because you visit a drop forge -- that's work, trust me. You're shackled to your machine, so you can't escape, although I'm sure there are people doing the

routine, repetitious jobs at a lateral hammer or at a drop hammer who would want to run away and escape. The imagery, as they're doing this repeated procedure over and over again, a countless

number of times each hour, must translate the shackles into something other than the safety device they genuinely are. The shackles, you see, can't travel any further, so they can't get caught in

the hammer.

None of these workers -- I've talked to them; so have you -- are writing letters, signing petitions, calling up radio talk shows, saying, "I want the right to

work in that foundry longer. Oh boy, if the vibration from the shaft of the hammer hitting the forge or the ringing in my ears of the persistent -- I'm just going to miss that so much, come time to

retire, that I don't know what I'll do with myself. If you don't let me get up at 5 every morning to come into this foundry, this forge, I just don't know what I'll do with myself."

Talk to underground miners who even now, in the year 2005, work in an environment where there is the constant risk and inevitable fear of tragedy. I defy

anyone on the government benches, Mr. Zimmer or anybody, to come up with a single letter they've received from an underground miner, saying, "I want to work longer. I want to work well past the age

of 65; maybe 70, 75." I defy a government backbencher to produce a letter from a miner who wants to work underground longer and longer, rather than who wants to have a pension that's adequate,

that's thoroughly and sufficiently funded enough so that worker, woman or man, can retire at an early enough age to enjoy that retirement.

Ms. Wynne, the member for Don Valley West, to her credit spoke in the brief opportunity she's had so far about the phenomenon inevitably of women, although not

necessarily, who removed themselves from the wage workforce to raise kids -- to have children and to care for them. Look, there's nobody in this chamber downright stupid enough to suggest that that

isn't work. It's incredibly hard work. Women in the home work incredibly hard. Again, most of those tasks still fall to women, however unfortunate and regrettable that is in terms of how we

perceive roles. But you watch women, women having kids and then raising them. Again, the strength and the tireless days I'm sure are fatiguing. But of women working at home -- and Ms. Wynne spoke

about women who remove themselves from the wage/salary workforce and then re-enter it once their kids are perhaps teenagers or high school age or out of the house, and how they then have some

serious catch-up to do when it comes to getting pension eligibility, if t