PROVINCE <W M!WFOUNOlANO AND LA6RAOOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume t Number 25 4th. Session 34th. General ~ly VERBATIM REPORT MOJI;"UAY, A..PRIL 6, 1970 \ SPEAKER: THE -HONOURf ... BLE OSORGE W. CLARKE ··'

of the O!Jnosition:: I iJ;,ve ~uch ple~sure in assoc:iatinr ry rc!!"~ri-:s t..rith tLe bon. thc Pre~ier in •:e.:c:o!:'in~ t>•e t!Ji rt~·-o::-.c students from Eoly ::er:rc. 1-'e hope they have an enjoyaLle couple of hours, and t-:e bone tl1ey le<>rr'- so!:lething from their visit. I <-!auld also too, in Leh~lf of my collear,ues to associate myself with the remarks of tl.e bon. the Prernie1: in connection ~lith the death of my collea!?ue's brother. U!L JO_t!N ~ C!':O_:l~IE_ :_ ~-r.

Spca!~er, I \·!Ould ll.ke to associate myself \d th a welc:orr:e to the puoils that are attendin~.> here today from l'oly Jleart School. I hope that they \!ill £inc! the proceedin7s interestinr: and in addition. ~fr. Speaker, we -wo•.1ld like to associate ourselves t·Tith the Prerr.ier' s expression of s~pathy for the han. the Leader of the Pppcsition tdth respect to the loss of his brother, and ~o.•e certainly s_.r:npathize '~ith hi~ and his family C'ln this loss.

His brother was • I noticed in the ne•·,spaper '· a comparatively young man and therefore his death is ~ore tra~ic because of that reason and ~e. therefo~e. wish to join in any event TJith the rest of the nenbers of the House in extending our S)'l!lpathy. 1t"ith the business of the House, I ~·auld rerr.ind tile P.ouse that while we were in recess,!-!arch 31, 1970 has come and ;>one. The Province of Newfoundland is now of age. We have been a ?rovince of Canada for t\Ienty-one yea-rs. I do not think that it would be proper for us to proceed with our business and not take note of this fact.

Last year you \!ill remer.,ber, ~!r. Speaker, we passed a resolution on this occasion.

I do .not think ue n~ed today to pass a simiJ.ar resolution because the conditions are the sa~~ now as they were then. ~ewfo~~dland has never had such a period of prosperity, such a period of prop.:ress as the period that we have had since !·~rch 3ls t., 1949 ·and it is ·impossible to consider that great improvet:lent, that tremendo!JS progress "'e have ~r.ade _.ere we not to associate with that pro?ress the name of Premier Smallwood who, as we inti~4ted a·year a~o, almost alone fouRht the battle for CC'Infederation and brought Newfoundland into the great Canadian Dcrr~nion.

We all remember, those of us who are older, there are some of us here 1J,, who do not. Some of us will reme"-ber gallant fi~ht that the present Premier waged to bring Confede:ation to Neufoundland and ~ewfoundlanders wherever they are and on whatever side of the House they are ackno~ledge his great contribution

April 6 th., 1970 to New f oun~and 0:1 that occasion . I do not p~o?ose, ~~ . Speak~~. to ~~ve a =eso lction, but I ~ould .. scgges t t h-.t we as a House ~o·ou:ld scc:::.d and si:~g the last verse of the Ode ~ to ~ewfoundland in r ecognitio!l o: t:te !act t hat ve are no:.- t\olenty-one years of age and t hat ve are ~deed happy to have this happy Province . ?erh aps , Mr. Speaker, ve could do t ~~c . If you ~ould stand . / ~ ? 7

April 6, 1970 Tape IJ 325 Page 1 As loved our fathers so we love, Where once they stoor. .. ,.' c; ~tand, Their prayer we raise to He~ven above, God Guard Thee Newfoundland. God Guard Thee, God Guard Thee, God Guard Thee, Newfoundland. Presentin~ Petitions: "" MR. SMALL~OOD (~.H.): I beg leave to present a p~tition from the voters of Bumble Bee Bight. As you know Mr. Speaker, B~~le Bee Bight is a small settlement on Pilley's !sland.

The prayer of the petition Sir, is for a road connection with the main hi~hwav ~oing down over Pilley's Island, that is Sir, the main road from Robert's Arm down across Pilley's Island and down through Triton Island. Mr. Speaker, this is a relatively short piece of road. At present there is a road Which can be navigated in summer time. It is a narrow vind:!.ng road. It is just 'about ic:oossible to get over it at wintertime, and it only goes oart wav in to the settlement.

Sir, I strongly support the prayer of the petition~r~. and ask that this ~et:!.~ion b~ rac~i~~d by the House, and referred to the department to ~hich it relates. MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that thi~ ~etition be received and referred to the department to vhich it relates. Those in favour ''aye", contrary "nay". Carried. Presentin~ Reports of Standine and Select Committees: RON. STEPHEN NEARY (Minister of Welfare): Mr. Speaker, I want to table the Annual Report for ~he Depactme~t of Welfare vhich ended ~~rch 31, 1969.

Copies will be available for all hon. members cf ~he House, and vill be distributed later on this afternoon by the page. Copies are available for the press if they require them. MR. SPEAKER: May I take this opportunity of dr~ing to the attention of members the report cf the proceedin~s of the tenth Area Conference of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, which is on the desk of each member at the present time.

I would particularly draw to ~~e attention of members, there is a section, a ~eneral sectio~ on Page 7 of the Agenda, the C~neral Session and ~lorkshop on the quest! or. of Parliamentary Privi le~e as be in~ vorth reading. A lot of the ~atters vhich have come in this Session, durin~ this 1#7?

April 6, 1970 Tape f/325 Page 2 present Session a~e very well covere~ in this Workshop ~hi~h was concucteo · • by Mr. Philip Laundy, who is the chief of research in the Parliament of the Government in Canada. It is well worth ~oin~ into that, as vell as other sections of this Report. I think the Conference which was held here in this Chamber was a. great success, and everybody who participated got .a lot out: of it. Also at this time, I would like to say how thankful I vas as chairman of the Conferen~e to have had such able co-operation from some of the members of the Civil Service, parti~ularly "''r.

David Butler, the Deputy Hinister of Labrador Affairs, whose ~nister vas good enou~h to let us have hi3 services as conference co-ordinator durin~ the term. And then also to Mr. Thons, who .. edited this Report of the proceedin~s, and did such a fine job in having it to the Printers and in our hands at this particula~ time. My thanks as well as the thanks of the members of the Parliatuentary Association go out to t~ese people, to~ether with the typists and all others who hel~ed and made this Conference a success. Notice of Motion: j#7?

April 6th. 19i0 Tar-e 32G PK - 1 NOTICE OF MOT Iml ~m. JOHN C. CROSBIE: Mr. !:'peaker, I give notice that I will on tomorro1o1 move the following motioa.

"wnereas the Helville Pulp and Paper Li~ited Authorization of An Agree~tent Act, 1966-67, as a:::tended by Act No. 72 of the Stntutc:s of Ne..-foundland 1968, authorized the Go•rernment to enter into agreement vith the Helville Pulp and Paper Lim:!.ted, and other co1:panies and persons for the purpose of establishing .. a pulp and paper mill in the Province and provided for certain guarantees and others··in connection therewith; And vhereas the Government in November, 1969 entered into certain ag:r:eer.:ents and certain letters of guarantee in connection wit~ the project, including sp~eific guarantees of amounts totalling $66,102,000; And

whereas the Government has not presented ~o the ~ouse complete facts and icformation with respect to the project and any changes in ~onnection therewith ..... since the passage of the said Act No. 72 of said Scatutes to ~:et:foundland 1968; And

whereas there have been considerable changes with respect to the ~aid project sir..ce that tioe with respect to the companies parti~ipating in the project and with respect to the carrying out of the project including ~• i~crease in the amount of loans to be gl!aranteed by the Government of ~;ewfol!Ildland; And Vhereas it is desirable that members of this Honourable House of Assembly and the public of Newfoundland be fully inforrr.ed o= the position with reference to the Melville Palp and Paper Limited Project; Be It Resol~d that Mr.

Speaker, to appoint a select ~ommitteerof this House to inquire into and to report back to the House with respect to the status of the said Melville Project, and progress to.date including, but not to effect the generally of the foregoing to report on the amount of money to be guaranteed by the Gove~ent in connection wit~ the project. from a nature of feasibilities done in connection ..-ith the project, on the feasibility cf changes and the method of transporUng o:ood from Labrador to Stephenll'ille. for the use of the said Fulp Mill at Stepheuville. and arrange~ent for marketing of the produc~icn of the said Mill and on the security to be:taken by the Governnent in connection with Govern~ent guarantees, such select committee•to have all necessary po~ers to carry out his duties properly and to have pernissicn t0 ci~ring the sitting hours of this House, and to report back to this House during the present session.

April 6th. 1970 Tape 326 PK- 2 ANSWERS TO QU.E5-:'IO~S HON. G.A. FRECKER: (MI~ISTER OF PFOVI::CIAL AFFAIRS}: Mr. Spea\<.er, I have the answer here to part of question No. 108 appearing on the Order Paper for February 27th. And asked by the hon. the ~ember for St. Barbe South. The part that is given here is the one affecting the Department of Provincial Affairs. BON. HAROLD STARKES: (HINTSTER OF HIGHl.'AYS): I have the answer to Question 179 asked by the bon. the :r.enber for Gander. "1-.'hen~did construction stop on the road through .. the community of Appleton? The anstver, December 14th. 1967.

Were tenders called? No. Did the tender call for completion of the project? No tender was ealled. "1-.~en is the target date for completion? December 14th. 1967. Another answer, Mr. Speaker, to question 166 asked by the bon. the member for Gander. Has representation being made by the To~ of Gander to have Memorial Drive reconstructed and brought up to standard before being passed over to the Has Town? The answer is Yes. No. 2, if the answer to 1 is Yes,/the Government made a committment to the Town to undertake such ~~rk? The answer is No.

After the Government paved the roads, for the Tovn in 1960, the road became the Town's responsibility. The answe= to question 160 on the Order Paper of March 5th. the answer is to 1969 question No. 1. Actual e~~enditure from April 1st/ to February 1st. 1970 $1S,aeo. Estimated expenditure for the fiscal year ending March 31st. 1970 $21.900. And the an~er to No. 2. This was Government policy.

Tap~ 327 J~! - 1 This was Government policy. ~!P...- ~?..Cl~~!E: ------· C-.n.-~r.....,_ T ..,.r''-"-••,. .. r ... .., e: .... .-- - -· ... ... ~ ......... ~ , .......... .... .. t...- ---~--- ~·"(,.. u~.L.:~<•"-..1. j Han. l·!inister r,ive that n~:lin the dates th<lt thnt was for. ----I :J """'"'..L.U. MR. STAKI(ES: T:-&e actual cxpcncliture fran 1\pril 1, 1969 to February 1, 1970 is $18,360.and the estimate for the yc.::1r is ~21,900. I!r. Speaker I have the answer to question apoearing on the Order ~aper of }"cbruary 2l,th, Question No. SS, asked by the hon. member for Burin. :·!r.

Speaker I have the f.ir,urzs in this answer covering the period bet,veen January 1, 1965 to July 2il, 1966 and from October 16, 1969 to February 28, 1970. These are the perio(!s dudr{g t.:hich the hon. member was not a member of the Cabinet. MR. CROSBIE: Is the han. minister saying that he is tabling this inforMation but only for wo periods ~rl1en the hoa. !'!ember for !::urin uas not a member of the Government, is that the answer7 In other ;.rorcs the hon. ::dnister refuses to answer the question. HR. H. COLLINS: ~!r.

Speaker I have not got the question r.umbcred here but having to do with the road throu~h Appleton had nothing to do 1:ith !1emorial Drive in Gander. two $eparate questions. ,Since the work in Appleton was started during election campaign a great amount of equipment was also 101orking on Hemorial Drive during e!e~tion campaign. }ffi. SPF~R: This is not. definitely not in order. HR. CROSBIE: Hr. Speaker may I rephrase thnt and ask the minister if he 'Proposes to continue this work when the next election is called. MR. SPEAJ.J:R: This questiOT". should be on th:;! Order Paper. HR. CROSBIE: A .Point of Order, :·lr.

Speaker. Has Your Honour ruled that the Government is not obliged to Aive information of questions asked hy former ministers covering the period when they were not ministers in the Government. M...l<. SPEAKER: I have said this and I t>ill repeat 1 t nat> that questions ask~d first of all to obtain information and not to give it, they must r..ot be argumentive .and whe::~ the person to ~~hom the question is directed anst>ers the que:stion it is not the subject of comment at all :md neither if he refuses- to an~•er the question is it to be the subject of cot:I!llent.

I think t:llat is as clear as I can possibly make it. HR. CROSOIE: !'lr. Sp~aker, is there any parliaoentary custom that in cir~um- stances such as this that the Government are permitted by parliamentary custom not to give the information reque,;ted?

April 6th, 1970 tape 327 JM- 2 }!R. SP::!~_:<.:Z.": The ']ues t:ion is nut of O!"<~cr b~cause nn hon. rncr.1her cnn ask tile Speaker for a ruling on !>oroething th<~t ls not before the House,. Hypothetical questions and asking the Speaker '1-Jhat he tmulcl do in certain circumstances or what is the rules concerninr. such and such nr~ questions that are also out of order because the only time th.:1t he gives a ruling is tvhen the matter arises in the !iol!Se.

He can ah.:ays :;.ns,ver the sa:-~e question in his office or one of the clerks at the Table ~•auld !::>~ pren~"'red, I t'• in:,, to ~ive the answer to these questions, outside, hut they are not to b·:.< as]~e:l in the Eouse. HR COLLI:lS: ~!r. Sne;:!kc.r~ if I m~"ly, my unrlcr~t~nding js that we p~tt some questions on the Orr!<:!r P-:Ipcr, hopefullv to get sorr.e a'lswers. ?1R SPEAKER: ·'lot debatin~ on <JUestions. rir!1t no~•. \·Ie are> not to start a debate as to how •-te should ;mswer 'luestion or ••hcther they should be answered. The rules .are clear, and I have stated tloeo.

I think. as clearly as I pos­ sibly can, ahout what the ~roceclure is in askin~ 'juestior:s. Anythin~ else is out of order. Further answers to Questions: HR CURTIS (non. :1inister of .Justice): :-1r... Sneaker might I revert.~o ~otice of !fotions? I give notice I will on tornorroY ask leave to introduce a bill, '·An Act Further to .\mend the Local GoveTnMcnt: "\ct, 1')66", also A 'Sill,"An Act Further to Rmend the Co=unity Councils Act, 1962", and also A Bill,"An Act F1o1rther to AMend the Crown Lands ~ines and Quaries Act, 1961". -·

I. introduce a Rill,

An Act Re spec::in p; The f..dn-:inistration ()f Certain Speeial Services By the Department of Social Services and Rehabilitation, far the residents of Northern Labrador. UON.W.J.KEOUGH(Hin. of Labour): !1r. Speaker, I give notice I >.•ill on tomorrow as leave to int-roduce a Bill, "An Act Further To .!..mend n~e Miniou :n 1-'age Aet . " ORDERS OF TilE DAY: MR.J.C.C ROSBIE: !!r. Speaker,! would like to ask a question on Orders of the Day. Will the Hon. Minister of Justice advise the House whether the Governmen: has instructed Mr.

Justice ~ifflin to discontinue his enquiry into the recent suspension of constables by the Chief of the ~ewfoundland Constabulary or not, or just what the position is in that res~ect? MR.CURTIS: '!y hon. friend t:~ight ~tive notice of that question • .a.djounu!d . Debate on the Address In Reply. - ·-·--.~ HQ.l'l:..-E. DA~R (~ti n of ~!un. Affair's): Mr.

Speaker, in continuing 1ny address in reply to the Gracious Speech, I ~ould like to take a fe~ m0ments out to give the Rouse some of the history of the d~ve1pornent of local Co~ernment w~thin the Province, and some of our'plans for the future. l would like to say that everyone participating in Municipal Government is called upon to plan for the future. Prop,ress that has been ma~e is an indi~tive of the scund planning both by the municipalities and by the Government over the period of years.

In 1949 our Pfovince could only boast of 23 mL~icipalities representing approximately 20 per ce.nt of the population of the Province. Assista!lce by the Province to the municiPalities in that year amounted to $237,000, sooe ten years later in 1959 there were 80 municipalities renresenting 40 per cent of our population and receivin?. assistance from the Province in the amount of $1,514,000.

At the present time anproximatelv a further ten years later ve have nov 190 municiPalities averaging 65 p~r cent of our population: Within the current fiscal year the "various forms of a~si s tance Oo ~unicipalities by the Province amounted to $5,400,000. During the same period the revenue of the municipalities increased from $1,200,000 in 1949 to S22,500,000 in this present :;ear. In 1959 to 196q the assets of the various municipalities increased from $25 million to now in excess of $100 million. The present system of local Government has evolved over a relative sho~t period in our history.

The system is substantially similar to the form of local Govern~ent in other ~rovince~. But it has been deliberately adapted to i'fP/f

.. ... ..: .. -..... meet local conditions. 1t!-,is c-tea!:"-that under the existin;~; policies of the Pro•nr.cial Government in providing Iinancial and technical assistance since this great progress has been made. I anticipate that during the next ten years there will be oonsolidation of the present system of local Government improved municipal administration and a hi~h~r standard cf muni~ipal services.

The davelopment in local gove~ent du<in~ the next decade willfbe determined to a large extent by many factors including the availability' of financing econ~ic donditions and industrial gro~th, and as Yell the centralization of our population. .. . ..... :'7 It is estimated that in 1980 the value of municipal assets ~ill reach some $200 million and th.e __ grcss rnunicipal revenue will be between thirty-five and forty million ~er year. In 1980, ten years from now.

The number of municipalities wil~increase probably to 300 and all municipalities with growth potential, -will he nrovid .ed with essential municipal serivces su~~ as water and sewerag~. street ?aving, fire fighting equipment, etc. and it is conceivable that at least 80 per cent of our population will reside in municipalities by that, time. ~·!e should be concerned of course not as much about the n~ber of the municipalities but in the quality of local government generally.

W<!! are sirnilarly interested in makin~ intelligent: and proper invest~ents·rather than the total n~~ber of dollars spent to provide the se"ices. ~ractically every ~Jnicipality will where lar~e capital e~enditure bas been~made to provide municipal services have been desi~ry~ted as growth centres, confirming and leaving no doubt about the choice and location of dol1ers so spent. One of the most notable developments in recent years is the ~rowing awareness on the nart of the people tcwards sanitation requirements. particularly in the division of ~ater and se~era~e ser-~ces.

Water and s~eraf,e~services are now available in 74 municipalities and at the present time·~~ hzve some 6~ requests on hand for similar installa~ions And we have an esti~te for this requiremenc :hat we wo~ld require at least $60 million to provide these services to con~unities concerned. A nillion each. about a million each. Mr. Speaker. It is about an averar,e of a million each. Some of this reque'st is for net.r services others are for extension of the present systems we l1ave in hand!ll but there is a minir:JU1!1 of $60 million tdll be rec;uired fo~ the;e services.

MR.SI!ALLl\OOD: All of the~:~ organized munici:-ali:ies? ...-·

, .............. ...., . J.i\..Ul"l \loiJ.:.,.;, All i:.hese request:s are ln w1th:!.n organized rnunicip~l!ties. None without any not being incorporated. MR.S!1ALL1WOD: Are there some else~.rhere for other places'? Im..DA1ffi: Well as you kno1:o1 1:o1e have the, particularly in, on the southern shore of Conception Bay wh~ch is not now incorporated.

It was anticipated a large mmount of money will be required, I think an estimate is $13 million to provide vatar ~d sewerage for this part of Conception Bay in unincorporhted places that would be Topsail, Kelligrews, Manuels, t hat general area, that part of Conc~ption Bay MR.SMAlLWOOD: Will the hon, gentleman allow rne, he sa~s there arc about 60 places in the Prov~nce today incorporated municipalities w~nting water and sewerage, or an extension of v:~t they have now, runnin~ to $60 million cc an average of $1 million each, and then in addition he says about another $13 _ million for unincorporated places _and then my question is are there other requests to any other department for water systems of any kind and if so what department and how many ar.d h~N much? .

I ca.'l say that r.:y depart:::.~mt gets requests fror., time to time to·,provide d.::ep ~ells in tae incorporated areas, but these are alYays referred to the Minister of Co=c:r.:!.ty and Sod;cl Develop!".e::t.

He is responsible for these g::-ants there now, and 1<1e anticipate thai:. an additional, at least one hal£ to $1 m:l.llion lo;ould be required to provide wells in co=unities not incorporated We still have sc~e of our larger co~unities who are now thinking about incorporation en the local Government Act, and as soon as each co~unity is incorporated their first request through tne department is for the installation of water and sewage systems.

I think it would be safe to say that we have approximately say fifteen or t1<1enty large co=unities in Newfoundlanci_ that will be incorporated within the next few years, and they will come immediately to the Gover~~ent seeking vater and sewage systems. E.ON. J.R.S~WOOD (Pre~ier): The han. minister knot<s at the moment about requests for about $74 million for water systems MR. DAt.'E: As of this present time Ye have definite requests in hand. I have a complete list here, 1 could read out some of the list which we have here now, I will just pick them at random so that there is no favouritism.

Bishops Falls is one here; Harbour Breton; Upper Island Cove; Catalina; ~Iusgrave Harbour; Corner Brook; Roddickton; Heart's Content; Holyrood; WeslerJille; Seal Cove; Port au Choix; Baie Verte. I could read out the complete list. it is a complete list of all the cournunities we have seeking local Government and seeking these water and sewage systems. It goes on without saying ~r. Speaker, that water ~~d sewage systems are expensi<e propositions and are competing for monies that can be ~ade available from investment and other fields of social capital.

The provision_of supplies of drinking water must of necessity ass~e a place of importance in our financial planning. Huch has been said about the difficulties of financing during the last couple of years. I need not repeat the reasons, but simply state the fact that all Governments including the muncipalities have been " forced to curtail expenditures and take precautionary measures. Even when investment money is available the very high interest rates that must be paid at this time is a formidable burden, "for municipalities wishing to carry o1.1t large expansion of public ~arks programs.

I ~ optimistic that during the next fiscal year, and continuing for the next several years assista~ce ~ill be made by the DREE progr~ to enable municipalities to undertake these essential projects, and ~e are locking forward to this announc~ment of the DREE ?rogram, and naturally ~~y water and /Jt-r? --·

se·..;age sy~tem.s t hus pt:ollided will lessen the burden o:: !:!Y department, and thus 1104ke it easier for the Go-..rernment as a vhole to provid e a.,y service to 111unicipalities that are not in the ce 5ignat e d DREE ;ueas. The high cost of providing service in many nunicipalities are attribut2 .ble to the fact that many co=unities have develope~ throughout our history without the benefit oi adequate plan ning. The relatively small population in many communities is dispersed over large areas, and in many iilstances in a haphazzard fashion.

The people now expect an:! in fact frequently dema.~d a high standard of municipal service s . Proper planni~g, and strict development control is obviously essential. Effective use must be made of cur land resources in order to provide the maximum result for the rrDney invested to provide services. ~en uncontrolled develop~ent is permitted to t ake place, it is inevitable that in the cc~rse of time, with the increasing population, sanitation will occur. This ~~11 invari~ly result in the demand for the installation of water and sewage systess.

It is essential that in order to avoid ·largc and.unnecessary expenditure in the future the proper pla.~ning controls nust be implimented. We must avoid to the greatest extent possible rivbon development along our highways as well as haphazzard fringe developments on che outskirts of our urban areas.

Strict controls and positive and creative plans · litust therefore be provided not only in municipalities, but also in areas not incorporated, At the present time fcrty-~ight of the larger m~nicipalities are now receiving the benefits of municipal plans ~hich have been completed or in the course of completion in the near future. In addition the preparation is now commencing for the to~~s of Spa.~iard$ Bay; Bay Roberts; Clarke's Beach; and Brigus to have tl}eir O~"tl local plan, and also plans for 1lnincorpvrated co~unities have been prepared for Witless Bay; Fe~use; Renews; St. Mary's and Garnish.

As ~ell we have regional studies and plans for six regions that are b~icg prepared for the Burin Peninsula; the Eonavista Peninsula and the Baie Verte Peninsula as well as fot the southeast ~d southwest Avalon Penin:sula area. Prep~rations are also being made :o encompass St. John's general area and the Port au Port- Steph~nville regions. At present 103 of our major incorporated towns have had large scale mapping completed.

Tnis planning has been necessary as one community is largel y i~te~d2pender.t on other regions in a given area. ! he n=ber :;;f re g.ior;.;;.l ?: .:::os :~s t h.,-.:e. 3l r e::dy been prepared have already proven their value by maximiz:ir.g the use of available service and /H-R.f'"'

April 6, 1970, Tap~ 329, Page 3 -- apb tacil:!.t:Les and hav~ prev~nted the occurrence of substandard, isolated, and unsuitable development. \lhile the protected road regulations have Teceived CQnsiderable criticism fro111 time to titne, I have no doub ·t that the implilllec.t:ation of these controls will save millions of dollars for the Province in the future • . and will insure the effieient \I.Se of our highvays. In addition to Trans canada Highway,protected road regulat ·ions now apply to practically al.l the main roads in the Province.

While the Municipal councils and the Government have taken these see~ngly upopo~lar measures, often in the face of severe criticism, there is no doubt · that time vill prove that the decision to have been is correct. Mt. Speaker, the Government embarked on a program of share-cost paving within ~eipalities, and it did receive immediate acceptance by many of the municipalities withill the ProvinCt!. I do trust that the Gove-rnment will give consi~eration to implimenting this s~heme again so that we can assist the municipalities WhO require thi$ lllUCh desired paving 'loi"ithin tneir COII!Illunities.

April 6, 1970, Tape no . 330 Page l Mr. Speg ker, the development at come-ny-~na~ce tnls year has been looked forward with keen anticipation by ;nany construcr:ion vorke"Cs in my district. l'~ny ar~ exp.:ct:lng to find enployment there. [.Je all realize the difficulties and the setb~cks th-'lt the hon. the Premier had in o'rder to bring this great industry to our Province. I have fully supported this industry since it first was conceived by the hon. the Prer.:ier and -when the Bill was brought to this House.

Not.z that all the obstacles have been re~O•!cd, it presents a very excitinP. and challen?in~ develoor.cnt for our Province. ~~en we couple this -with the prospect-; of a very larp-e Cn~l'lical-Corc Co::rplex, this uill rive added err,ploy;;,cnt and hi~il t'arcs and thus t h is inuu<:try Pill prc a tlv strenl!then the economy of our Province but es:necially this part of the J::ast coast, anci I am pleased to knmv t!-:at the Fre- lier t•as quite confident that a paper mill will start as well at Come-by-Chance this year and I say thi~ will add further er:1ploy~:· cnt and we wholly hope that these ~ajar project~ can be started as soon as possible. }!r.

Speaker, no•• tr1.-:.t this ~reat dr-v~lo;>~enr: is about to start within the '1ext few months, I ••ot:ld li!:e to take this opoortunity to strec;s afain the importance of havin;~ the road extended throurh Sitearstown to cormcct ~.-ith the Trans-Canada Hi~h;.:ay near Bro"'Tt' >:; Crossln~ ar: ~:hithourne. Hi th this road completed, it vould pro~;idc an easy access to CcMe-hv-Chanc-e for the llOr! : ers of Carbonear, Hr. Grace and Port-de-"rave a~d r.~ny would be able to coRmute daily to work just as they are nO\>.' doinr. who no~ -work in St. John's.

The distance would be about the same and it is "Y under5tanding tl;at a preliminary survey has been completed for this road and I feel that this type o!' road ,.·auld qualify for assistance in this construction und~r the DRI:E I:oads ProFram. Mr. Speaker, the fundamental desire and tradition of t;eufoundlanders~is to o~:.-n their O\>.'Tl ho~es. It: is their desire as "Well, ''hile in obtainin?:· this_ o~~rship that there would be at least possi~le incu~Jence on their property. Therefore , they are concerned in keepin? the avaunt of money required for the tr.ortpa11e as low as rossible.

This is especially true for r.aay of our citizens of lov incomes and persons without lon~-term em?loyment such as fisheroen, construction vork e.rs and others nnd they do not vant to oblip.-ate themselves for the long-term debt. Because of the amount reouired at the present interest rates for them to enter into such a contra.:t would be unthinkable. Our position is li!Ore aggravated in our approach in trying to orovidc houses for our people because

April 6th., 1970 Tape no. 330 of the relatively high cost-associated with construction and the relative low income of our people. This concept, Mr. Speaker, of shell housing, while it is not new, now offers tre~£ndous opportunities for many of our young r.~rried people to obtain a home that otherwise would be impossible due to the financial limitations and at the sa~~e time take full advantage of the industry and ingenuity of those concerned.

I am confident that if we gained experience in the implementation of this Shell Housing Progzam, and when it becoces more widely kno~~ and understood by our people and with the co-operation and support and the approval of the hon. Mr. Andras and his officials at Ottawa, that we can further modify this con~ept of shell housing to suit the needs of our people and that I am confident that 11! will grow into the most popular and videly accepted programs throughout the Province. I am further encouraged by recent statements by the hon. Mr.

Andras of the concern and priority his department places on providing homes for lo~ inco~~s and his concern for the problems of the peer. This is greatly demonstrated by his department, prov1di~g out of a total of $854 mill~o~, he has designated $570 million to this group. ne has also further reserved a total of $200 million for contractors and others concerned in providing homes to conform with new end b~tte~ vays to meet the needs of this particular 3roup. ltt.

Speake:, the officials o! my depart~ent are now considering approaches in this regard and we would welcome any suggestions from other interested parties towards ~~is end. Mr. Speaker, there have been various schemes adopted and implemented by the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation in conjunction with Central Mor~gage and Housing in crder to alleviate the housing preble~ and this has been with so~e success. I refer to the various schemes such as: co-operative housing, subsidized or low rental housing and various land assembly projects.

The principal objective in our enlarged program of shell ~ousing is to assist a great nu~er of our people to achieve their own hcmes at a minimum possible c:cst.

Apr~~ o, L~/V our proposal for putting this scheme into effect, is that the Housin~ Corporat~on ~~1~ ouilci

part l y-f1nisheci houses havin~ arra~~eci morc~age money with Central Mortgage and Housing for a term up to ~renty-five years. D~~­ payments vill be kept to a cinimum and I ~ould like to cite a fe~ examples of just what I mean. We estimate that with the down part payment of about five percent of the a~ount we borro~ed, that is to say, $6,000, the downpayment vould be $300 and my officials calculate that the monthl~ pa:~~nt for this aoount vould be fifty-two dollars a month. If a loan of $12,000 is required the do~~-payment would be $600, and the pa~ents would be $98.00 a ~onth.

I would like to explain that especially in the urban areas, it is anticipated that a house could be constructed including the service land for $12,000 made up as follo~s: $4,000 for the service land, $8,000 for the house, making a total of $12,000. Of this amount as I pointed out, $6,000 ~ould be required for the dovn~payment. I am sure that hon. members can see tha~ people of lo~ incomes ~ould find it easier to acquire a home in this manner, rather than the normal procedure of mortgage loans, where~y the persons concerned would be required to pay $4,000 for the land before the house could be constructed.

TRere could be an additional savings in tnis amounL if lands are tried anti accevtcd, vhereby persons themselves could put their own label for the eont~act and financing could be arran~ed just for the purchase of materials. The estimate cost of labour in such a house is ahout $2,000. So if we take these figures into conside~ation, that with an ave;age cost of $12,000, if we deducted the labour involved, that is to say that ~ith a service lot and a shell bouse with its labour included, a person could construct this house within the City of St. John's for the sum of ahout $10,000.

And I am sure that many of the citizens within the City, I am sure, would like to take advantage of such a scheme. However, Mr. Speaker, as I have pointed.out, in the rural areas, I a2 sure many ~ould want to take advantage of the savings of the labour, because they have ~~ny in their families who could assist them in this .regard. And naturally in many places, ~cod building lots can be purchased much less than the $4.000 figure I have indicated. The advantage of this type of housing project, is that the house could be f!nis~ed on the outside, but the degree

April 6, 1970, Tape 1.!331 Page 2 oi ~ork on cne ins1ae would be so arranged that a prospective could rroake the very best use of his own resources in financing che house, and at ~he same time keep his long-term financial obligations of monthly payments in mortgage funds to a min=.um. In Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation could as well clear up the difficulty problem that is being experienced and establish good title for the property.

My officials tell me that this is the most serious problem and quite often people have been frustrated in acquiring a decent home, because he has not been able to acquire proper title to their property, acceptable to the mortgage company.

After we have gained experience in acquiring land and the construction of shell houses for sale in the regular manner, we see a second phase that evolves, th e co~9peraticn in acquiring bulk land, servicing it, and Central Mortgage ~using giving the individ~al the opportunity of taking a mortgage directly from them, and constructing a house by its ovn arrangements, to a pre-agreed stage of each·completion. In this manner the Corporation will have assured that good titles have been established for the individual, and the necessary municipal service was offered.

We also see a third stage, and when we gain I say SOI!le further experience in these previous stages, there are in Newfoundland many situations, where individuals would wish to build his own home on land that he already owns. We hope that the shell housing principle will apply to this type of individual as well. And any house so located that it would be consistent Vith good community development and planning, and that he would have the assurance of a proper water facility.

We look forward to a~ exciting year, and I am told again by my officials that we could lay the ground work this year~ and could develop in one of our busiest house construction programs. For further information and members, it is estimated that our ~~nual requirement of houses will vary from year to yea~, and that we anticipate that for the next tea years, this request for housing will run from three to five th~~sand annually: And if we take an average between the ~o amounts, let us say 4,000 units a year, the · estimated capital require~ents for house construction within the Province is $80,000.

This will provide as I say, approximately 4,000 units pe:: year /lff.J

April 6th. 19~0 Tape 332 PK- 1 I regret to say that clue co the high interest rates now prevailipg, and tile mortgage financing by the private sector. And no immediate solution is anticipzted in this regard. This problem is recteving the attention of all levels of GovernQent and private enterprise within the nation ~ith a view of some finances or some practical solution to this problem. Hr.

Speake;,to summa~ize what I have said, I have c?ne to the conclusion that if we cannot develop a substantial shell housing program, in conjunction with the existing schemes for the lower incone rental housing units, I feel that we have ~ade ne~ative approach in solving the housing problecs of our Pro'lince. And I look forvard to improved situations in this regard, end my officials of my department "!.'ill be applyin·g themselves in the :months ahead towards this end.

To relie§?. the problem of high cost of h::>Uses within the Province, the only other possible_assistance relieving the cost of housing wculd be for the Federal Gcvernment to subsidize the actual cost of the service land or to subsicize the ir.terest rates. The concept of long term leases naY available in the Province of Quebec is taken care of in our concept of shell housing in urban areas, for a mini~um down payment of five percent. The cost of land is included with the cost of the house, and is part of the mortgage money spent over a period of twenty-five years.

In many lcural areas this program of high priced land will not be applicable. It is the intention in this session to present to the House th:! necessary legislation that in the case of multipliable unit buildings to let persons • join together in home ownership and nanage~ent of properties, and into individual ownerships and at the~ane time to provide such common areas as parking lots, playground, basements, roofs, and other things pertaining to the build~ng itself, are all in common use by the owners themselves.

This is known as the "condominium" -hoesing, and it is relative neH else1.1here and it is concerned that the necessary steps should now be taken to enable this application in this Province. We look forward to later in this session to bringing forward this legislation to this condominium house construction. Mr. Speaker, in conclusion I vould like to refer to the condition generally throughout the district as I find them, and as vell to point out &OQe o! its needs. The district of Port de Grave continuous to play a very significant pare in the distribution of various goods, in Conception, 1Placentia,

April 6th. 1970 Tape 33~ PK- 2 a-:-,d Trir.ity .Bay. as well as other points on the AYalo::J Pe::1insula. This i:s. evident by the many. large wholes~lers being located there, and are distributing general provisions of every discription t~roughout the area. Other goods such as~ria beer, and soft.drinks, coal, oil and fishery salt , as well as / sand and stone for highway construction and ready mixed concrete is generally delivered. If production is widely distributed as well, and we have four large producers of salt codfish and one fresh fish plant at Port de Grave.

The areas used by Maple Leaf and Robin licod Flour }lills Limited for the storage and distribution of flour for the whole of the Avalon Peninsula. Public services are being constantly improved and now at a high standard. Bay Roberts itself is the central point of all long distance calls, co~ing into the central and northern half of the penins~la. Also, the Ne~foundland Light and Power has a maintenance depot, and a large power sub-station forming part of the grid utilizing the power from Bay d 1 Espoir. Banking services are ~ell provided, there are four branches in the district.

The Department of Highways have a maintenance depot located at Bay Roberts providing good gravel roads and excellent snow clearing conditions in the winter months. Community playgrounds have been provided in all the coporated tc~~s, out more recreational facilities are needed, especially for our ycL~g people. The Lion's;cl~b Swicming Pool is progressing well at Bay Roberts~ and it is expected that this will come int:o operation early this year, and I understand, it is to be a heated pool, =d I am sure it will be looked forward to many of our young people with keen antici~ation.

The tvo large public pastures, one is located at Brigus, and one at country road Bay Roberts, these have been well patronized by the local cattle owners, and has been a tremendous help to various co~~cils of the area, ~iri enforcing their Rattle regulations, preventing tnem from roa~ing at large of cattle 1n their prospective towns. The home for the aged at Clarke's Beach, being operated by the Pentecostal Assemblies of Newfoundland is ~o•orking well and extenticns have been added.

I feel sure that if mer.bers could find time to visit with them, they would be pleasantly surprised of the su=roundings and the high standard of accommodations provided. The Canedian Army is planning to purchase the Kelly's property at Springfield, c1ackinsons, for the po::rmenent site for the Army Ca'llp in the Province of Newfoundland. It is

It is excellent property, iJeally located for this r~~?~S~. The Doy Scouts of Ne<:foundland had a province-••:lde jarr.borec there last year. '.-ie have, ~tr. Speake~, three distinct tourist attractio!ls thilt can be fostered and ! refer to the IJicturesque fishinr co!:'c:our.ity of Port-tie-Grave Hhicll as you kno"'· is an artist's delight and !?lany visitors as cvell can see for themselves all phases of the cod fishinp, industry carried out, that is to say, the landing, the splitting, the saltin~ and the drying of the cod fish can be.readily seen there day to day.

Also ve have a small fresh fish plant operating at Ship Cove. Mr. George Hose.,.:orthy. local artist has been very successft!l ~j_th his Fishernen's Huseum, -with nany visitors taking a keen in::~erest in all of his ~ork. I further suggest that the hohle of the late Captain Bob Bartlett should be p£~served and !!lade available to the visitinr public, '<:it:h all his person.:tl trophies of his various exploits to the ;.<orth Pole. At Cupids, nec.r the Guy ~lernorial Site, could be erected buildings and ether effects similar to the P.eriod of Guy's first visit in establishing a colony in the N~ ~orld.

These various attractions are about fifteen to twenty miles froc the Trans-Car,ada High!vay accessible by a good paved road, and I am sure, }!r. Speaker, that _if these ~!ere provided, ..,.e would have a t\"emendous influx of tourists into the district..:luring the su!:l!'"er l"!Dnths. ·Hr. Speaker, the district itself contir.ue~ to maintain a steady ··u butslow growth.

It will be furthe"r 'st:rcn~thened by the clevelop~r.ents that are to take place at Come-by-chance. l-Ie have large blocks of !1:00d land that can be developed for house construction. \~·:! are in daily drivln~ distance to all the major sources of en:ployr.;ent on the .A.valon Peninsula plu..<> a fair amount of employmi!nt within the district itself. Doctors' ser-.ices are being recently improved by extra doctors now locatec at Erigus. Good ~eather with very little heavy fog. Good harilour ::auditions. at Bay F~be::ts, Cupids and Brigus.

IV~ have one of the most prosperous fishing co~unities within the Province at Port-de-Gra~e. We have located excellent f~sherrnen with.w2ny firsts in its development to their cr~dit. We have very little able-bodied relief. We have a good trained working force and are reccgni?.ed to be among the best construction workers in the Province, especially the carpenters, cer::ent .. .and brick vcrkers, tr!1ck ar.d. heavy equipment operators. Also our people have a deep pride in the cleanliness and general vell-beinr, of their churches, schools lodges and co=unities, and I tvould like to say, Mr.

Speaker, that this trend is c'ontinuinp! and I am amsze<L~yself, ~l1en I drive through the

district, in the ?eneral upkeep of t l 1~ ~ersonal prcpert:ies i~ the area ltse~r, ana ~ fee~ that it ~oulci co~are iavoracly w1~n any that I hav~ seen at least in the Province of Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, as wel~ education opportunities ~ade a tre~endous stride during the past five years and this progress is continuing under the new educational system of co-operation betveen all the churches and we now find ourselves with an educatio~al system equal to the hest anyvhere within the Province.

Just one exa~nle of this trenendous growth is clearly de~onstrated by Vhat has taken place at Ascer.sion Colle~iate in Bay Rcberts. It was first contemplated after the erection that enrollment would exceed 300 to 350. But, Mr. Speaker, in the short space of three years, ,,nrollrr.ent has now reache;:! 630. There are twenty-six tea~hers on t~e staff teachinr the re~ular subjects as well as the two languages.

They teach the four sciences. lie have three specialists lllasic teachers. ;·re have a full tir.:e !'hysical instructor on the staff. tie have a guidance counsellor, a reliP'ion education te<Icher, along <.>:ith hotr.e economic classes and a fully staffed cafeteria <-!here dinner ~eals are served every clay. Mr. Speaker, the groJ>,th of local p.:ovcrnment has beEn a rr.ost significant and I aJ!I happy to say th~t about eifhty per cent of our population no,. live t.Tfthin nine incorporated areas.

It has been my rood fortune to have eiecced as councillors 1:1en wo have dedicated thell\Selves to their uork anc! <.>:ith the g-enerous help of this Govern..,..ent have brou)::ilt l!'.any icproverr..ents to their respective to•ms . . .... .... ~J. Speaker, the principal rcouest of ~ district is the i~~oveL~nt of roads by pavinr,.

I am fortu~in havin~ a fair a~unt of this "'ork co~pleted but this has caused resentment amonf corr~unities t:here the asphalt has not yet been laid, and residents concerned are very anxious to h:IVe their col!ll!!Unities treated in the same manner as the other comnunitics in the district. The followin~ is a list of the amount re~uired for pavin~ projects in the district. At· llibb's Cove, Port-de-Grave, we have a distance of one:-aixl-tuo-t.enth milr;s. I ·am l;u:-e- t::ha.t the·-people are ea~erly lookinr. foward to the corr.pletion of this road this year.

This will be the final phase of the road throu"h Port-de-l.rave t'hic:h -was completed sometime in 1968 and we look forward to the cor::pletion there! this year. This, as I say, _ c~~y~ :· one-and-~o-tenth ~iles and the estimated cost is $80,000. Another

section of road is at Station !toad, Clarl~e's Beach, this is within the tot."!'l of Clarke's Beach itself and ~a have sixty per cent of the people livin~ in this street and the distance of /t'j- 9/

April 6, 1970 T~ n ~ no. 333 Pa Pe 3 ro<td of this particular/is one-and-five-tentll rdles. The estirr.ated cost is betveen $90,000 and $100,000. The Springfield Road in the to~~ of South River, they are requesting a similar paving pro2ram this year as well and this esti~.ated cost is about $100,000. We have requests from North River and Hall's To\m.

He have requests in from Hodr--e Water Line, requesting two and a half miles and the corrmunities of Country Road and Bay Roberts, within the town of Bay Roberts, they are requesting similar pavement and we feel that in most instances the designed work has been completed and all is necessary is for the Government to give authority to call tenders for these particular roads. I am sure that the7 are looking forward to a prorram especially this sur.mer, and they would like to feel that their road will be considered by the Hinister of Hiphways in his general program of road construction throu~hout the Province. !fr.

Speaker, I have referred to this ll'.atter several times here in this House. I think in closing I should ' proba~ly refer to it a~ain. I have referred to the provision of hospital services for Conception Bay Centre. As you know this has been a most active consideration for the past three or four years, and they are concerned to providing so!!'e hospital services forthe people of that area. We did have a drive for funds two years a~o and the ~irst response was tremendous. We have collected and raised $40,000 ca5h. It is now in deposit at two banks in Bay Roberts and at the time ve

n.pr.1 . .L o, !':JIU ·r ape 11D4 Page 1 we had a co~~itment to raise Sl00,000 towards construction, and o~r people Government was in a position to indicate its position as regards to hospi,al construction of the area. However, Mr. Speaker the hospital co~ittee have met several times, and have discussed the problem cf hospit<!l construction in the area, in the light of government tren~of more centralized hospital; services.

That is to say larger hosPitals to serve larger areas instead of smaller units spread over the same areaS, with this in mind we are prepared to recommend to general committee that the Government would forego the erection of a hospital at Bay Roberts as promised, and .1oin vith the people of the Carbonear hospital district, and have one joint hospital erected, to serve all the needs of both hospital districts, provided that the hospital itself would be located as centrally as possible in the both areas to be served, so that the doctors and patients, and more especially the doctors, would only have to travel about the equal distance ~hen requiring medical - services.

NcnJ Mr. Speaker. I would like to add further that this has bee.o· very active Yith the cominittee for this last month or CYo, and I say we vo!!ld like to join forces with the people of Carbonesr in ha~ing one c~ntral hospital locateJ, and I am sure that this concept ~ould be ~ell received by the people of our district. We know the difficulty in providing small hospital units in such a small area, and we hope that this request will be given f~vourahle consider- ation by the ~~nister of H~alth. Mr.

Speaker, a. major concern of the town of Bay Roberts is to have their community served •nth a w-ater and sewerage system. It has been actually considered by the Council for the past four years, and all the desi~n work has been completed to call tenders. And we should hope to receive th~ supoort of the Department of Community and Social Development to have this system ~ncluded and accepted by DREE for construction early next year. I feel that we are confident that some undertaking will be given possibly in the new agreement to be signed this year.

And we are fortunate that we are at least in the area to receive assistance from DREE, being part of the ~reater St. John's area, and we look forYard as I say to getting a co~~itment so that our ~eople could at least anticipate construction next year. I know t~at we have a very costly project, because of the area to be served. This ~11 serve the /If 77

needs of so~e 4,500 TJeorl.e" e_nd as well, ::he people of ~:>ania.~d 's nay r,.rho are no~<~ within the dis~rict of Rarhour Grac'-', and can utilize !:h:!.s same system and natu:r«lly they r.;ill be lcokin;>; fr>rward I "'auld say to sotr.e indicati.on from gcvern:r.ent in this r~gard as "'ell. The esti~ated cost for the water system at Ray Roberts is so~e $2,300,000. This would make it one of the most e~pensive projects wi!:hin any community, but as I say, you must bear in mind the large population ~hich it serves.

It serves three cm:rr::ani ties, that is Shears town, Bay Ro':lerts, Coley's Point and part of Country Rosd, a population of some 4,500 people, and 1 say ~<e loo:C forvard to some considera~ion and some action later this year. Mr. Speaker, in conclusion I would like to offer my congratulations to the hon. the Premier on his magnificent victory at the leadership convention last October, last November. I a~ co~vinced that the Premier's determination to get jobs, _jobs and more jobs to large scale industrial development, using our basic natural resources, is the only uractical course for this Province to follow.

As I mentioned in part of ny address there last night, the last Session of the House, th~t reference had been made Qutside this Rouse that we should plece small emphasis on secondary industry. I would like to see these advocating such develop~ents to cor.~ for~ard an~ spell it out in detail, what t)~e of industry we should have.

And then we would be in a better position to judge its merits or otherwise. i kno~ we all know the history of secondar7 industry especially since Confederation, and I am sure our family itself being very activ~ in trying to provide secor-dary industry, and I am aure, regrettable to say without too ~~ch success. Frankly Mr. Speaker, I fail :o see where we could expect larg~ scale employcent from this source.

Wages would have to be low. and we are limited by the very llmit of a home lltarket. <!-nd the only way I fe~!l that this tYl)e of industry could really s~rvive, if it were possible to have protective tariff on goods coming into the Province. I say all ~e have to do is look back and see hov many of the local industries have gone cut of existence, that was in this Province say twenty to thirty years ago. ·r am sure that the Govern~ent and the Premier would be pleased to have any recommendations or suggestions that those advocating such development would come forward and make it known. Mr.

Speak~r, in conclusion I would ...... ·

. : ~· - ~~-· .... . · .. ~ . ~ ·"" April 6, 1970 Tape #334 Page 3 like to assure the hen. Premier t hat he has ~y full support in his de~erm~nation in providing source of emp1cym~nt. And that I will continue in my su?port to him as the leader of the Party and the Premier of our Province. Thank you very ~uch. MR. T. ALEC RICK!-'.AI-1: Mr. Speaker, may I first join hon. ~embers in e~ten~ing my congratulations to the mover a~d secc~der of the Address in Reply.

Regretfu~ly I unde~stand the mover the hon. r.> ember for Trinity :~orth is ill, and confined to hospital, or was, and we hope that he makes a very speedy recovery. I should like to ~hile I am in a ccngratulatorv mood, to ccngratulate the hon. the senior ~ember for Harbour Main for his excellent participation in this debate. I d~ not want to cast reflection on other hon.members, but I think it was by far in a way, the outstan~{n~ co~tribution that we have seen during this Session of the House. · And again while I am in this mood, I think that the bon. the Premier is deserving of congratulations.

He has graduated, he has left the ranks of Eisenhower, DeGaulle, Churchill, others, and has no~ passed into that sta ge of gr-eat-grandfatherbood, and I think the hon. m e ~~ers of the House vill join with me in extending him our best wishes and congratulatfo~s, that he moved into a new plateau. Today I must say I wa~ impressed and deafened to some extent by the strong voice of the hon.

Minister of Justice, a& -i he led us in the Ode to Newfoundland, and ih his very fitting tribute to the ~enty­ With first anniversary of Confederation ~- _- Canada, when he spoke of the insuil!lountable obst~cles that the hon . the Premler had to overcome at that time, and one of thre _e __ members of my -profession was very actively involved.

I think that the hon. the Minister of Justice as one of our op~onents could speak with a ~reat deal of feeling at that time, but right triu~ohs and here we all are today • . -- And our only concern, our only desire, our only hope is not that we continue to look back all the time. He who looks back has very little to offer for the future. But rather as we continue on !n this great confederacy. That we bring to our people the just desserts of our bein~ apart of the Canadian nation • . ,,.. . . And may I

O!le ~:~ore personal r.ote dra•-:s to the at ter.ti<::r> of han. r::e~:'c>ers a ne~ publicatio:1 which has hit the press last hcek, the Burin Peninsula Post, sose fine looking men on tne front. It is what we call on the Eurin Peninsula our answer to the government's bulletin.

It is factual, i~ is long overdue, it has a very public spirited gentle7nan in the person of Mayor Hudson of .1-~arysto..,Til, as mayor, a man who won a trenendous victory over great odds in the recent municipal convention, or election and a man who is_very r~pidly emerging as a great leader in the ancient and han. district of Placentia ~est.

The wnen on opening day of this session the hon. the Leader of the Opposition had the temerity to read nertain extracts from the a~ulree Co~1ission Report he aroused the ire of certair- hon. ~~~be•s on the Governmen~ side and particularly the hon. the men:ber, ,the ~~inister of Rehahilitatiorr and the hon. ~dnister of Mines. And he vas castiga~cl.and everyone else vho had mentioned it since for eyen daring to compare the bad old days of the thirties which_so fev of us remAmber, and with the present alle~<ed prosperity of the Province of ~ewfoundland.

But in their anxiety to castigate those who should look back that far and I must confess I do not subscribe to the vi~• of looking back cP.rtainly not to the thirties. Conveniently or otherwise certain statements in that report vere completely overlooked. Let me r~fresh han. mem~ers memories of tvo statements that were contained in that report.

I quote: (1) ~ferring to the difficulty in these days of gettin~ good men and v~en to enter the political life of the Province or the island it wa~ said that, this is not due to the lack of public spirit, hut to the public abuse, and personal abuse to which candidates are subjected and to the feeling that if elected they would be su~pected of being associated with co~rJpt dealings. He!.l, if any of us had on the ra1io thfs ~orning we would be bound to ask the question, has there been any change?

Has there !:leen anything happen in the Prcvince of N~rfoundl2"".A .fn the last 20 years tha~ ~~uld not make decent men and wo~en hesitate before they decide to serve their frovince and I consider to be the most solemn way and cost solemn manner that they can be exnected. (2) a further quote was~ a fu~ther as~ect of life in NevfoU3dland which cannot fair to impre~s the detached observer is the reckless manner in which the resources of the country have been dissipated as will be readily appreciated from the description of the e~isting political system, political control of Newfoundland as involved periodic.aLreversals of policy, lack of continuity, absence of expert.-service, nearly all a::·p~intce':'lts bei!'lg politicas, without /~f!-2_

reference to rr,eri tp.T'.d the patront~.<:'e of c.ortatn busintss firMS in disregard cf the just requireme~ts of others. Ncrw, ~r. Speaker, that is ~e~foundland I gather in 1930 and the comparison dra«s the wrath and ire of certain han. gentler:.an across this House. Let me read just two more co~encs that may or may not meet the approbation and a?proval of hen. members en t~e Govern2er.t side. (1) and I quote Mr. Speaker, ''Newfoundland had been shockingly abused, her resources squandered, her people exploited, her future jeopardized, her treasures sold abroad for pittance". And the e-ther !-lr.

Speaker. if I may,'' referring to a survey that was taken on one occasion, it was also found by the same survey that in some cases "Wi.do;.:s deprived themselves of persunal nutrition in order to insure that thei.r children recei'l.·e the 1'-est food,;'~ Now Mr. Speaker, bon. members will probably shake t;eir heads znd say, back you go to the bad, bad old days of the thirties, the days that owe have long since left behind us. And Mr. Speaker, hopefully this is true. But I was not reading from t~e Arnulree Commission Report. My first quot~~ion Mr.

Speaker, Ne~foundland had been shockingly atused, her resources squandered, her people ~xploited, her future jeop~r~ized, her treGsur~s sold abroad for pittance is Newfoundland in 1969. Last year Mr. Speaker, the press of Canada conducted as they do at the end of each year, quotations as it related to various provinces, various areas, various culture throughout this Hation: To our s!~e this was the quotation that was used, a ouotation fro~ the Toronto Telegram and carried as a q11otation of the yez.r for the Province of Ne•~- foundland. The author I ·io r.ot know. Newfoundland has been shockingly abused.

Newfoundland in 1969. 't-.'hat about the second one t!r. Speaker, how dces this grab hon. me.rebers? It ~as also found by the same survey th>t !n some cases vidows deprived themselves of persopal nutrition in order to insura that their children receive the best foods. :.:s.-that a quotation frcrn Toronto? Is that a auotation from an unkno~ author? Does that refer to Ne-..rfoundland 19 30? Th2t ~!r. Speaker, is Ne.,- foundland in 1969 and it will be found on pa?,e 262 o~ the Royal Co~ission's Report on radiation, compensation and safety at the Floursoar ~ine in St. Lawrence.

So let us not get carried away by all the great progress that this Province is vitnessing at this ti~e. I believe rightly or ~ongly t~at the first obli~ation for any Governm~nt elected to office, is a social one.

April 6 1970. it r.as obliAations to find jobs, it has obl!~ati~ns to provide social services, ~t has obli~ations to i~prove education, it has obligations to improve health services, but ~:r. Speaker the Government is really the sodal conscience of this Province. And I am not very proud and I hope the hon. ~inister of Rehabilitation is not very proud when today in the Province of ~~wfoundland widows are still depriving themsel\res of l)ersonal nutri!;i.on and the ne::essity of life to provide good food for their children. But Xr. Speaker, that is happening.

That is happening today, j On April 6, 1970 in the Town of St. ' La.,.rrence, happening to ... ddows, ·happening to dependants, happening to men vho had given their lives in the productivity of this Province. ~en who worked in a mine that has been the subject !!latter :1r. Speaker, of a very thorough Royal Coamiss~on Report. I would say the most thorough Royal Commission Report. I would say the most ~~orough Royal Commission Report that we have seen on any one particular isolated industry. The people of St.

Lawrence in my. opinion had never for some reason that is moss to me has never e~joyed the affection, the understandin~, of the Govern- ment of this Province that it should. ! have heard before I became a ce~ber of this Ron. Rouse, I have heard the hon. the senior member for Harbour ~~in, express precisely these same vie~s. I have seen him and heard him in this House plrading tha~vernment use soce understanding some appreciation of ~hat the people in St. Lawrence have contributed to our economy and what they have seen and vhat they are suffering at this t'ime. This report Mr.

Speaker, ~f the Royal_~ission vas submitted to Government in Septe:nber of 1969. ye vaited a long time for it. The people of St. Lawrence waited ~ith a great deal of ~~ticipation, Because this was their last hope, th they suffered from the forties through to the seventies, waiting, hoping, little re~ognition and at long last three years ago a Royal Commission Yas appointed. ·:..:. J..:..··_ ... ·--

April 6th. 1970 TApe 336 PK - 1 The only state~ent, Xr. S?eake~, ttat ~e h2ve seen o~ he~rd ~it~ respect to Health, dated February 26~h. 1970. And in that report he confirned to the House, that he and his colleagues, so~e of his colleagues are giving careful consideration to this report. But there are the proble:::s of reco=ending and imple~enting the report in this reconmendation are highly coT.plex.

The problems of implementing them are highly technical: Tney are so ~echuical, so complex, according to the han. the }linister of Health, that a medical specialist in industrial medicine and hygiene had to be retained from (:.ttawa and to hold certain ~eetings. But. Mr. Speaker, there maybe certain technic~)poin~s in these reco~~endations. There may very l..'ell be some policies that Yill ha,te far-reachingreffects on the compensation laws~of this Provin~e.

But, there are an awful lot of reco~endations in the report of the Royal Co~iss~on, that could be implerr~nted, if the affection is there, if the understandi~g is there, if the willingness is there, in a matter of hours. And I ass~e, Mr. Speaker, that the han. the Minister of Re!lth and his co~ittee of colle~gues ·to which he refers in his statement of February 26th. have read this report, have read the recomcendatious, have seen the dreadful comparisons between those who are Yclfare reciper.ts, a~d t~~~e ~ho are receiving vorkmcns compensation.

Who have seen that this commission find, that it is ucjust, humilat~g,and degrading from widows of deceased ~~rk=en to have to go and receive social assistance, vhen the monies that t~ey.-.are entitled to receive under the ~or~~ns Compensation Laws, are monies earned by their husbands, and their deceased husbands and their deceased fathers. We have seen this we have seen the report, and the reco~endations as contained on Page 259.

And we find that vidow~with large families are better off en soci~l assistance, receive additional benefits, receive assistances in the matters of municipal taxation, in the matters of education, in matters of housing, that are denied t~ the widovs of St. La~rence. Nov whether it is true or not, the Royal Commission fi~d them. HON. STEPHEN A. NEARY: (MINISTER OF w~LFARE): Will the hen. the ~ember pe=it & question? MR. T. EICKHA.N: By all means. MR. ~7ARY: Is the hen. mecb~r aware that within the last three weeks, upon representaticu from Mr. Leo Slaney, the Presid~nt of the tnion in St. Lawrence, /j-~s-

April 6th. 1970 Tape 336 Pr.-2 · carri~a ou~ a spec1a~ investigation, ~y department, in St. Lavrence ~ith one of our mature and experienced social workers in the area, and ve proved beyond any shador.r of doubt that the statement made in the reporc is CO!i'.pletely out to ·accept that in a fev cases, widows may be allowad to drug, and eye glasses and building materials, but we are assisting a large n~ber of widows iri St. La~rence supplementing their workmens co~pensation, but just take the statement perse, Mr. Speaker, it is not correct.

I can let the hon. m~ber have a copy of the report, if he would like to have it. Y>R. RICKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Minister, I will be more than happy to receive that report. But, as of today, I submit Mr. Speaker, the statements contained in this report that a widow requiring assistance for housing could vith the approval of the minister receive $2400, and in certain cases an a~ount in excess of $2400 vith the approval of the Lieutentant Governor in Council, does not help the vidovs at St. Lawrence wgo are · recipents of workmens compensation. MR.

NEARY: This was pointed out as , if the hon. me!nber ..,ill permit me, this vas pointed out to the w:f.ddws, they were all interviewed, I think, it lOaD materials to repair their houses, if they needed it, then the social worker told them during the interview ~hat their rights were in this regard. MR. HICKM}~: The ~plementation of the first reco~endation in that report. And I thank the hen. the minister for it. Because, as you will recall the commission reco~ended that forthwith in September that the widows and dependents in the Town of St.

Lawrence be ~~de available of any possible assistance that could be provided to them. We have been sitting back waiting, b~cause for the life of me, most of these recommendations do not require, they are not co~plex, they do not rquire great months of study on the part of eA7orts. But, the most i~ortant reco~endation of all. Mr. Speaker, is in the Appendix which lists the names of approxiamtely 100 ~en, past and present who work in the mines at St. Lawrence prior to the f!ft:f.es when lung eancer was recognized ~ an industrial disease.

This co~ission took every case, so~e of the men are still alive, regretfully they are disabled, took every individual case, checked the records of employment, checked their exposure to duat ir. the minds, aad having done that, came to conclusions and findings as to hov many of these Qen and cheir dependents ~ere entitled to com2ensation. Not all of the names contained therein were focnd to be entitled to-compensation, but most were. /.5'0 6

April bth. 1970 Ta:>e 336 PK - 3 No,., Hr. Speak,r, this is no great departure, this daes net require any massive arcendments to the ~cr t"' en's Co~pensation Act. It nay require some, the recommendation is that the of far _of a O!ev futt! be accepted, ;.;hen they offer to contribute to a fund it vill not cost, I suspect ~ore than a $100,000, to provide compensation to the re~aining benefidaries and dependents cf these ~en. This does not require any decision by Ottawa, it does not require ~aiting for advice of specialist froo Otta~a.

Nor does the decision to include silico- tuberculosis, as an industrial disease in this Province rquire any technical advice. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that in England, in cost European countries and in African countries, silico-tuberculosis is regarded and accepted as a compensatable industrial disease. The results are ~ell kno~~. the instances are well know~,_unfortunately again, in the mine at St. La~Tence or in the past at least before they took the safety precautions they nou have, silico-tuberculosis was a disease that has not been compensated for and again, ~e have been expecting every week, so has Mr.

Leo Slaney, the President of the Union, so as the To~ Council of St. Lawrence, expecting ~~ announcement that, that reco~endation will be implement~d forthwith. Again, there is anreco~endation that the inspectors be increased, the number of inspectors in t~e ~ines be increased from one to two, until an accurate and com?letely definitive su~•ey can be cc~pleted of tr.e safety factors in the mines. Nothing technical about that, Mr. Speaker, nothing that requires any great profound change of Government policy. It is simply a decision by the hon. the minister of Mines, or Labour.

I think, ~lines to send a second inspector, and atation ~.i!:l perm.aneatl:1_ in St. Lawrence. These are the sort of things the Town of St. La~rence, which is making a contribution to the economy of this Province, far out of porportion to the size of its population is entitled to receive.

This is the sort of decision that an indi.!stry whic:h today employ -·-; 400 mea, more than vill be er.ployed at the Refine=r lf it is built at Come-by- Chance. four hundred =en pe~.ane~tly e~?loyed. 7his is the type of ~~derstanding, the type of consideration that these people had been waiting hopefully for years, and they were sure they were going to receive it, when this report of the Royal Commission was cade public. But, to date the ans~er has been a frightening, silent. then once again has aroused the apprehension of the people of St.

Lavrence thst they are again going to be left wh.e-re they have been for the past t.,;enty or thirty years, not much sympathy, less understan~ing, on the part of the Government /_j-6 7 .·

~ ri.l 6th. 1970 Tape 33f> P:\ - 4 of ~hi.s Pro•1ince . Mr. Spe&ker , ~here are ca~y rc~o~endat!ons in this report. I do not pro pose to deal ~ith all of them . The report is 1c tne har.ds of ell hoc . ~embe r s of this House. In the hands of the press , it is i~ t he hanci~ of many ot her people throu&hout ~~is Province . }~o I believe t hat oost peo?le share with ee t he desire that ue see a staten:ent r.ow from the Governtl~nt of ~eufoundla::Hi to v~et will be done vith refe=e nce to the imple~an~a:ion of the report, and i f ~e not intrust t~ese - idows by t he sort of state~ent, . it says the cost proble~s of im?l~ce~ti~g this rep ort are highly tec~nical . Mr. Speaker , I

Figure the hon. th'.' mcmbc!: or :-tinister of Rchabilitario:. refen:e<! earlier to the com.meuts of the .::ayor of ~larysto..,.-, a:1d the editor o£ the P.•;rin Post to tne re~vai of tne we~iare U!t~ce tro~ the to~1 ot B~rin, ~hen I had made a do note here to;precisely the s~me thing. The fact Hr. Speiiker.is this, that up u:1.til quite receutly tvo velfare officers ~ere stationed in the tc·wn of Burin. I do not know what their workload vas, I kno~ that they vere quite busy. Their vork in the main was quite satisfactory.

I believe that it vas the first ~elfare Office in the Province, or et least the first outside St. John's to have female -welfare officers. They brought vith them a great deal of understanding, and they also I believe, had·the St.ipport and confidence c£ those with whom they dealt in the town of Burin. Mr.

Speaker, in the town of Burin as far as the able-bodied is concerned, we have pretty close to full emplo)~ent, so that it c~~ be assumed that most of the people who go to the Welfare Office in the town of Burin looki~g for assistance are not people who are going there because they think it is the smart thing to do, or because they are proud of the fact that they are in receipt of social·assist~nce. They are going there rather because of illness on the part of the breadwinner, or of so-ce other personal private reasons they no longer can ~rovid<O'. for their iawilies the necessities oi lit'e. Mr.

Speaker, it was not the }'.aye= of furystown whc; was so critical of the h<in. the Rehabilitation Hinister, but rat~er it was one of our yo=g breed of mayors, mayor Don_ Hollett who publicly castigated this Government for its actions in rP.moving this Welfare Office. I hear htm, I was in Burin district when hP. made his statement, when he eccused the Minister of Welfare of moving this office in the ~dead of night" and putting it in a shgpping centre in Marysto~~.

Taking it out ~f the district, putting it in the shopping •·he centre in Marystovo,when the welfare receip1ents 1are people in need of' social assistance, social advice, went to the office the next morning there vas a ·sign 0::1 the door saying "Come to !'~rys tolo':l. to the Luo.d:rigan Plaza and therto you v!ll get your social assistance." BON. S.J.NEARY (Minister of Welfare): Mr. Speaker,·will the hon. member permit a question? MR. HI~.AN: Quest1.on or statement'! MR. NEARY: Is the hon. member aware that up to this co~ent the Welfare Office in Marystovn and Burin has net b~en c-..Jved?

"i11a~ tte hours ;md the days that office are oper. are exactly the sc.me «s th~y ~~ve been for years. and that the /.507 -·

service in the Marystown office that he is referring to is in additio~, is an additiono.! servict! . to the p~ople of Burin that th~y cid not have befor-e. Is the han. member a~are of that~ :t'LR. HI C'l:!A!< : Not only a.:n I not c.ware of it Mr; S?e;,ke·c, but I have grave doubts if that situation exists in Burin not~. I.t did not exlst in Burin the day that the Mayor of Burin and my~; elf made the public statement on t he cloe:!.ng out of the welfare off:! .ce in the dead of ni ght. The fact is, that in the interest of consolidation, I thi"k consolidation ~ a s the word, nor was it a fact three days ago Mr.

Speak<!r wh.en there was another state ~ent e~nated out of Marystown which I have :here somewhere. Tney were unkind enough in that state ment fro8 ~rystown to suggest that the inve s t ment in the ohopping centre at ~farystolo'!l had to be w.et. The ne-w rentals had to be found, and that this ~as why that ~elfare Office was moved from Burin to Y~rystown. MR. NEfu~Y: It is conpletely untrue HR. BIC~~: ~nether it is untrue or not, it is a fact that if ycu w~~t to find the welfare officers in Burin you vill find them in the shopping centre in Marysto~-u. MR.

NEARY: No, you will find them three days a v~ek in Bu:::in MR. BICK.'t\N: Three cays a week in Burin? ha; ha.! HP... NEARY: That is all ----- ·-- they have been MR. RICKMA.'-1: Oh, Mr. Speaker, Now look, let us not kid around, Let us net fool ourselves. The headquarters f or the velfare services on the east side of the district of Burin ~p ~til three weeks ago was in the municipality of :Burin. HR. NEARY: And it still is MR. HI~'-1: It is not Mr. Speaker. HR. NEA..~Y: I beg your pardon It is in the shopping centre in Marystown.

The very iaea of putting a welfare office for any district in a shopping centre in any part of this Province, where people, I am not concerned about the can (and there are very few o£ them in Newfoundland) -who is manipulating and trying to fool the Minister of Welfare, or his officials to get social assistance, but what I am concerned about is the huge number of people ~ho through no fault of their own find thewselves in a position where they have to get ad~~ce ~1d social assistance from the welfare officers. T~ey do no t do that out of a sense of pride, the:.: do it out of a sense of great humility.

They do not particularly want this advertised. They do :10t vant to have to 1li r..e up whlle the crm.·d /.5"/IJ

are going in and cut of Sobeys Super1:1arket, It is not ~ super.narket business. They do r.ot want to be sta:!cling there ,.,.t,en ;:i;ey see peo[>le go:!.ne in and out ... ,...~. ,..'l. .... -.-.. .: _ ,. ............... _,... ~-~·· -------r.--.. -;-, __ ........ ·-· MR. NEA..~Y: This is entitlement, the"y are entitled to this a::cording to l<:w. MR. Hio:!-L'u'l: Tney come to the conclusicr. chat they are being made public a public spec:le of. They are not going to tolerate it, and they have oy assur~~ce that it is going to be changed. MR.

NEARY: Would the hon, ~ember like to see the~ snea~ in the back door? 1-!R. FiiC!<Y.AN: I ~ould not like to see the~ sneaked in at all. I ~ould like to see them go to places where they are r..ot going to be subjected to public humiliation. I do not agree ""ith the statement: that is attributed to the ben. the minister that they should have curling te~ms, ~•d they should be put on public display. MR. NEARY: Of course they should. Why should they not? MR. RICKMAN: I do not agree 1.1ith that at all, and !·lr.

Speaker, this is the ~ort of dealing or discrimination that ~e are finding in the tovn of Burin. this is what brought on irate statement, the castig~tion by one of the ne1.1 breed of young ~~yors tha~ we have. ~yor Donald Hollett, not ~~yor Hudson. Wh7 would he complain? It is going into his town. Mayor Donald Hollett of Bl!:!:in and so!!le of the phrase~, some of the ~·<:>-r-2" tha~ he used are not p2rliamentary and far be it from me to use un;;arlian:entary words. HR. NEARY: I can assure the hon. member right no~ that the office in Burin has not been moved. and we hAve no intention of moving it. MR.

HIDC-!A."l: ~r. Speaker, th0se in need of social assis~a~ce in the municipality of :Surin are not receiving a."lything like the se!"'rices and the attention, and the advice that they did receive until three ~~eeks ago. MR. NEARY: There has· been no change, no change MR. HI~~~: Look, Mr. Spea~er, if scm~body ~kes a mistake in investing money into a busiuess enter,rise. If scmecne v.akes a ~istake in building a ~hopping centre that is too large for the econoillY of a particular area, 2nd then finds that he canoot rent t~at area. wny is it that the Govern~ent has to come to the rescue? There are no jobs iuvolved.

Paying rent to Lundrigans LimitPd ~n ¥~rystown does not provide &~y jobs. If they make a mistake let them live with it. If they make a mistake in Stephenville and build houses . that do not have public acceptance, why does Government have to come thei~ rescue? If they are good business men, a'd we hear frcn: ti~e to tin2 that they are the crea::~ of the c.:cp. That tl":ey arc great business men, that they /5//

- -----. . . April 6, 1970, Tape 337, P~6e 4 -- a~b knoW" what they a:-e ccing, the~ why do they heve to rush to Governncnt7 I am not going to stand here as the member for Burin e~d see my people in the to>m of Burin victimized just to make the shopping centre in Marys town pay. MR. NEARY: A tempest in the teapot. There has been no change. MR. EARLE: Would the hen. member permit a question? Would the han. men:ber have any idea what rent is bei.ng charged for this space, and what is being paid? MR. HICK}~~: Mr. Speaker, that is a question I cannot answer.

I would like to see a coopariscn between the rent that is being paid in the shopping centre in Marystown and the rent that is being paid for the l..'elfare Office in the town of Burin. MR. NEARY: Tite hon. member is aware of course that the space in Burin is rented from the Town Co~cil. MR. HICKMAN: I am aware of that, I am aware also that the To~~ Cou~cil has additional space that they ~ould gladly make available, and I am also aware that the. Mayor of Burin c,a<!e this stat;err:ent public.

I am aware of one ether thing also, that there has been some shenanigans, some fiddling~aro~d going on with respect to the Welfare of=ice in Grand Bauk, and that there again is some ~vehension amongst the people from the other side of the Peninsula tha~ they are going to be treateJ to the same fate,and that,in the interest of consolidation. It so~~ds wonderful. In the interest of consolidation their welfare officers are going to be moved. MR. NEARY: The hon. member suffers •••• MR. HI~£~~~; But you cannot terrorize the people of Burin MR. NEARY: The hon. member is MR.

HI~~: Theyr~ll not be terrorized, you can discriminate all you wish ~ut you vill not get a~ay ~ith it i-ffi. NEARY: The hon. member is suffering from hallucinations, because this is · another untr~e statement. MR. HICKMAN: Well can I say categorically now MR. S:·1ALL~OOD (J. R.): No, the minister says it Will the minister say categorically no~ there w~ll be no change, no reduction in ~he staff of the Welfare Offices in Grand Bank. MR. NEA.~Y: Will the hon. member pen:dt me ~r. Speaker? I uould like to ;61J.. state categoric~ly to the hon. me~ber who just asked ~e the question Mr.

- ~ April 6, 1970, Tape 337, Page~~-- ~?b Speaker, that there has been no cha.."lge in t.he Welfare Offtce in Burin, that ve have no intention of changing that offic~. It is open three days a week as it has been for years, and that we have no intention of changing the office in Grand Bank or reducing the staff of the office in Grand Bank. MR. BICIO'.AN: No reduction in Grankd Bank. Period. HR. NEARY: Period.

.... Apr:il 6th, 1970 Tcpe 33S JM- 1 We have this cleared up ~m.~ once ::md for all and t!1e, people in Grand Bank can rest easy. This question of discrimination o;;hich has been going 0:1 at·,d it.s effects on the joint councils, they draamec it all up. MR. NEARY: Hallucinations. MR. HIC~1A~: You better tell the joint cou~cils the next time you ~eet with the~ then th;;.t they are suffering from hallucin<J.tions and false rumors. Oh yes, so 1o1as the Mayor of Burin, he was suffering fro~ hallucinations. MR. SXA!.I.I{OOD: False rumors. Probably planted. MR. HI~0Uili: Oh, yes. Probably planted by whom? :1-!R.

SKh.LU!OOD: Oh, the rules forbid me to say. MR. HIC~~l: All right. Well I would suggest to the hon. rehabilitated ~inister that he check into who ever his employee was that put the notice on that door, because he must be a planter and we cannot have planters going down and planting rumors in the district. MR. NL~RY: Would the han. gentleman permit me? MR. RICKI-l-\N: Now we got it straighte:~ed up. It is all untruths. It is all lies, all rll!llors.

There ha~ not been the consolidation, the welfare ·officers are not no"' over in the Lundrigan 's centre in 11arystovn that they do not need that money for the rents, that is all straigl1t.:ned out. MR. NEARY: Would the hon. member permit me? MR. HIC!GW~: No, I propose nCYJ to go on to some prob lcms we had in Fortune. Not welfare problems, delightful problell!S. Problens that you l>1ill find in productive areas. The speech from the throne refers to shell housing. Rememberl·the great discovery,Mr. Speaker do you remerneer the discov~ry? Shell housing was discovered this year. Mr.

Speaker, shell housing lo'as discovered by the Government over a year ago where by the Newfoundland Labrador Rousing Corporation, , three years ego; under the guidance of the hon. member for St. John's Hest, the progressive gu;Ldan::e of the hen. member for St. John's West, shell housing was started in the town of Fortune. In the taw~ of fortune some shell houses had been built and it is hoped and it is believed that there will be public acceptance for this shell housing policy in the to'lm of Fortune. ~-ie do not know yet but the indications are that there will be. There are other problems Kr.

Speaker, problems that the han. minister of Social and Community Developr.~ent is aware of and proble~s which he has under- taken to co-o{le::-ate .,ith us in setding it and I thank him for his courtesy j.j/# ·'

April 6th, 1970 Tape 338 .1:-l - 2 and I thank hin for his ft:a:-.kn~ss and I t:hani.:. him for hi~ ability to put the fact before deleg<Hions lvhen they co!:le to see hii:J w-i thou~ r:K1~fng any promises and if the news is bad :hey will receive it, if cu the ether hand a solution can be found they will believe him. That is the sort of approach that I would like to see and I expect to see in the developing areas of this Province or with respect to the developing areas. In the town of Fortune, Hr. Speaker, for those who think that everything is wrong with resettlement, which it is not.

There are 409 employees in the Booth Fisheries c~~aclian plant at Fortun~ a~d of these 409 there are 269 are now residing in Fortune. The rest commute and come from areas as far up the coast es Terrenceville and Wreck Cove in my honorable friend's district of Fortune Bay. Mr. Speaker, the important and encouraging thing is this that in 1967 only 45-per-cent of the em~loyees of Booth plant at fortune resided in the town of Fortune. As of today 66-per-cent cf those employed in that plant now have taken up permane~t residence in the to\vn of Fortune.

Fifty-per-cent of the trawler crews are now residing in Fortune as com?ared to 25-per-cent in 1967. During that period ve had ~een in Fortune,and I should not do this as people vill think that I am hard at times, thanks to the policy of the hon. ~ember for St. John's West when he headed the Department of Housing they built their ~enty­ five C.M.H.C homes and thirty-five additional hoces. Well Mr.

Speaker Forcune has stated,fish plant operators in Fortune as have the fish plant operators L~ other parts of the Province suggested and said; " that in order to have an efficent plant you. must have 85-per-cent oF your work force resident in the area where. the plant is functioning~ In order to do this Fo~tune will require this year at least thirty additionzl new, not shell houses, but new housing units acceptable to the people and ready to move in. HR. S}!ALL~WOD: Would the han. gentleman allow me? He is hopelessly out' of date when he talks when he talks of thirty houses.

Fortune is about to undergo the s'econd greatest development of all its history and it will need far far more·than thirty additional houses. I repeat; Fortune is about to undergo the second greatest industrial development of all its long history and it will need far more than thirty additional houses. MR. HIC!G"A'l: I have this in front of me Hr. Speaker. I note this is February 6th, 1970,

April 6th, 1970 Tape 33R .1:1 .- 3 MR. SHP.~UIOOD: lie has not e\•en got a foggy idea now 1.1hat I ·am: ta:l.king · about. HR. HICK:-!.A.'1: Oh yes I have • . HR. S~t:\LLl:O OD: No h>! has not. MR. HICKl"A'1: Oh yes I have. 1-lR. S!·fALUIOOD: No he has not, not a foggy ic1ea. MR. HICK!-l<\..'1: Hay I make an announcement Nr. Speaker that in the toi.Nl of Fortune this year there will be built thirty C.~!.H.C hol!s es. There will be develop~d an additional fifty-four building lots and in addition to that the town of Fortune and this is why I say the municipalities are taking a finoer and more imagi native and a more agressive

part in the governing of this Province and in the develop~ent of their own resourses. The town of Fortun~ in addition to that has made a proposal vhich has the understanding and ap proval but not yet the funds of the bon. minister of Social and Cot:!munity Development to develop, listen to this Hr.

Sp~aker, ~or $100,000 a further large nu~ber, the number has not been fixed yet, of building developments of a ' developnent area for $100,000 Now the Government could not do that in a thousand ye ars but the town of Fortune is prepa .red to do this, made a firm offer and I believe the han. minister sees the wisdom of this and I am sure he is going to accept it. To develop aaother area, a serviced ar:e a , to take th~ home:> of people ~ho wish to have them moved in, there is no point Mr.

Speaker in rnoving homes into new areas and having th~m come in and the :peoFle find they cannot put the~ on service l~ts, find that they cannot take advantage of all the other amenities that you wilJ. get in the larger communities. These are the developments that Fortune will see, these are the developments, Hr. Speaker, that I have been a-ware of- .since February 6th. MR. SK~LWOOD: Mr. Speaker Ferhaps the hon. gentleman would yield a moment.

I am not talking about a handfal of houses, I am talking about the seco;cl biggest industrial devalopmenc that Fortune h~s seen in its long history is about to take place thera and the hon. gentleman does not ~~ov a single solitary~vord about it. MR. HI~~ ~ t~~: I have not finished yee. I am gain~ to tell you about it now in a second but I have to be very caraful because if I start making anr.ounce­ ments it might hurt the town of Fortune. It is a fact Mr. Speaker that this year in Fortune Sooth Fisheries Canadian Co ~ pa~~ Limited are spending $600,000. -·

April hh, 1970 Tape 338 JM- 4 -~ ... :...~..r- _., --- """- .................. !"'..l.oU. .. J.-1... r . Ld....: L L.Ud.L resui~ o~ spenci~ng $600,000. on the expansion of their piant i~ Fortune the labour force in that to~o'I! will increase by ten-per-cent. It is also a fact Nr. Speaker that upon the completion of these expanded facilities in the town of Fortune two new additional stern draggers will be built or acquired, I suspect acquired for the town of Fortune, again this will increase the nu~ber of the work force of the trawler crew by another twenty-five to thirty men. MR.

SMALLWOOD: Nultiply that numbe::: of draggers by three. UR. HIC!Q-L-\.'i: So Fortune is on the verge of great developments. Fortune also has under consideration, under consideration Hr. Speaker, a program which if they can get some co-operation-_from both Governments,and I think they will,which vill allow for the retirement, not just, do not let anyone go away with the idea that you say t hree and two are six that is like saying there is 17,000 new jobs and then forgetting the new, but rather Mr.

Speaker some of the side draggers operating out of Fortune will be replaced by stern draggers but that should not be taken in the context of itself constituting a new great industrial de\~lop- ment in Fcrtune.

That is' the program of replacement tha _t every fish plant in Neo.'"fo•mdland whether it likes it or :::ot i.:; being cor.;palled tu follow- and must follotv for two reasons: 1) "the side dragger no longer h<:ts an attraction for the ere~•, 2) the productivity of the traHler cret!"S of the trawler hours, the trawler man hours, is decreasing so rapidly tl:at the only possible tvay of this being rectified and cured is by the implenent;J.tion <:tnd building of netv stern trat~lers. Hr.

Speaker, while I am on that business of the neecls of our fish plant -in :t.he Province of ~Jev1foundlanrl and in particular the four fish plants that you find on the Burin Peninsula. Ile have today and at least according to my facts, nOY I may be vrong in this as this is the first issue of the Burin Peninsula Post, but there is a very very good

article in this written by the people who reoally know, the people vho live in Narys tot.-n. It is headed, "The Plight 0 f An Indus try". l1y hon. friend froa the senior r.1er:ober for ll<'rLour }lain s;;.icl pretty mnch the same thing as contained in this

article and this

article concludes this t:ay • "11e now ~ant · c to kno~ what is going to be done about the plight of our industry?'' That is the questio!l that is on the lips of every i!l.:ln and woman in Xarystown. Harystown is a good exarcple Hr. Speaker as the hon. senior me1:1ber from Harbour Main said in this hon. House recently, ·'\·ihat happens when you rush in without planning". ~:arysto•N-n i;;; a very good cxalilple of what can be done with a /S'!?

A j - /. l9~t0 pr .J. vcn, .m- s bit of planning, uith a bit of ne:~otiat:ior! en contracts. ~le had a figure submitted to this House recently as to the cost of tne Har]·sto~~ ship yard a~d the cost ·' /5'17 .. .

P.pr1.! 0 1 1':1/U Tape UJ39 Fage 1 of the Maryst<~~m }'ish Plant ani! the losses l<hich havo: been Sustained by $13,454,770. N0'-1 Hr. Speaker, you may say for ~•hat, it ts only money. The money is gone. We have two plants, you can always foreclose theo, you can ah.rays take possession of them, and we will be no worse off. But·Mr. Speaker, the tragic truth is quite different. Both these plants a.s th~ agreet:!ent has been tabled in this House or form part of the legislation indicate vere built on a co8t-plus basis. And cost-plus is dangerous. And the simple fact is this Mr.

Speaker, that in the Fish Pli!.nt at Marysto'~>:n which is a fine plant, and it is being modernized as the hon. the }finister of Fisheries knows. New work methods are now being implemented there, productivity on the line i~ being increased. But the silTil'le fact is this Hr. Speal•er, that that plant should have been built for $4.5 million, and that plant could have come out precisely as it is today with every piece of equip~ent in it as it is today for $4.5 million. And for $4.5 million Aclantic sugar and Atlantic Fish Processing ~ould not be in financial difficulties.

It would have no v~rry because the fish market has improved, but regrettfully the production in Atlantic fish is about the sar~. and the hon. the Minister of Fisheries can correct me, is ~ithi~ cne cr t«o percent of the total production of Bonavista Cold Storage Plant at Grand Bank. But the difference is this Mr. Speaker, that the Fish Plant at Harystm.m has to carry a debt load of $9,149,000. The agreement that is next to the legislation and vas passed by this House Mr.

Speaker, shows that co~.encing this year, it has to start repaying on a counter principle and interest, somethin~ in excess of $!.million and to continue to pay it either twenty cr tventy-one years, I believe it is rwenty-one years. Now Mr. Speaker, this is what. is causing ~he uncertainty. That is what is causing the unsettled air that you find in Marystown. This is again what you find is the cause of the uncertainty, the gloo~ that you find in ~~ryat~~ with respect to the shipyard. And it is unsettled.

The pessimism is spreading along the coast, because when people are trying to make up their minds, will ~e buy a· house here in Merystown, ~11 we set up shop here. Will we move our fa~ilies here. Or when the local school board is trying to decide how large a school will we build. Obviously they had to take note of the ..

April 6, 1970 Par;e 2 uncertainty of t he econo my insofar a s t hat s hipyard is concerned. N01<1 Hr. Speaker, we could talk until the ccws CO:.!e home about the gr!evious erro~s that were ~ade znd the exa~gerated cost that went into that shi~yard. But that will not help the people of Marysto~~. Nor will it help this Province that has to ceet the debt as it is for the shipyard of $1,110,068 is the ans~er to Question No. (57) and $576,0001n 1969. Mr.

Speaker, we now have . a situation in this Province that if properly applied, and properly planned, and properly ass essed, cculd be the salvation not only of Marysto~ shipyard, but could be the salvation of the deep-sea fishery in this Province. The fish plants are faced with a demand and a need for new stern drag gers. They are faced ~ith a demand to increase very substantially the size of their fleet. Rut it was in the past couple of years the Government of Canada has cut the le~s out from in under the construction of draggers and trawlers, and cut out tte subsidy.

On the other side of the coin, you have the Marystown shipyard itself today, which is nothing more than a repair yard which ~as the original intention before the thing started. And you cannot maintain or keep a work crew and a working staff of experts in the ¥~rysto~~ area, if they have to depend on the •1dnds of dr!!.~ trawler owner to bring h:is boa~. !nco M.arystiWtl to he repaired at a time that is convenient to him. So you have these tyo situations Mr. Speaker. You have the Government being called upon to subsidize very heavily this plant.

Obviously it must be discouraged that a plant that was s~posed to turn out rwelve tra~lers a year, has turned out two since it has opened, and now has no order on the books at all. It see!!!.S to me Mr. Speco.ker, that a solution to this problem, not the best solution. The best solution would be if the fish plant operators could c:ome and put money on the barrclhead and sav. "we -want a dra~ger a mont'!l." But they cannot find $1.·5 to.,build draggers. It see:ns to :ne ~1r.

Speaker, that ~~ether the Govern~ent lik es it or not, it is going to have to prov!de a form of subsidy, a for.n of higher purchase which will enable the fish plant operators on the southcoast of Ne~foundland, and an~ ot~er part of Ne-wfoundland, vhere you have the deep sea fishery, to have draggera built in our plant, in our yard, and at the same time, this will provide the people of Marystow~ w~th / !' .<_tJ

April 6, 1971) Ta.pe 1.1339 Page 3 a contin:..ity of e:;,.p::.oy-;;,er.t, a cer::a:::ty o~ their fcture, and it will o.lso assure at least to some extent, the fut~re of the ~arysto~~ shiryard. Mr. Sp~aker, there is one other ?roblem ~ith respect to ~hat snip yard that I think should be brought to the attention of this hon. Heese. , This shipyard. When it was built had as o~e of its COnCeptS, the support of the great Canadian Yard, the Canadian Vickers.

And it was felt that because of this support, that this shipyard wlth all its modern equip~ent, would be able to fur.ction competitively, and would be able to provide to the people in the Frozen Fish industry, the type of dragger that they want. Now Mr. Speaker, there has been certain developments. S~le could have been foreseen, maybe some could not. But one of the ~eal proble~s in making a shipya~d anywhere function efficiently, is to have al~ays at your disposal, the latest in design and the latest insofar as drafting ideas are concerned.

Without that, you lose business to some other yard. ~nether ~~ like it or not, we have to accept the fact that the corr.petition fro~ the European yards insofar as the construct!on of stern draggers are concerned, • it is very severe. And one' cf the reasons for it is • that they ha\·e S\;!)porting their yards, strong drafting, strong design departments. And this Mr. Speaker, is where C~•ad!an Vickers wa3 supposed to come into the pieture. !ut what has happened? Canadian Vickers Mr. Speaker, I submit bas withdra~ to a large extent is drafting in design support fen: the shipyard at Marysto~.

Canadian Vickers is no~ concentrating on work other than building ships in Canada. And the shipbuilding industry is only of secondary impor~ance to it. Now if they ., think that they can make more m!:)ney building rail":Jay cars, or doing something else in steel in the Province of Quebec, fine. But the regrettable thing is Mr. Speaker, that the shipyard at Harystcr~-n does not have the capacity to get into that type of business.

It vas never inten~ed to get into that type of business, and vhen we witnessed, as the hon. the Minister of Fisheries kncws, the withdrawal of the design and the drafting support by that great Vickers fi~ to suffer again at Marysto~-n. Mr. Speaker, those of us who see this around us on the Burin Peninsula all t~e~ time. We can see a way out. This i~ not original with ee. The hon. the senior member for Harbour Main and the Minister of Fisheries, they knov that if we are going to hzve this shipyard operate, and I believe that /5.2;

JW April 6, 1970 Tape #339 Page 4 both of these hen. gentlemen want to see it function econ=ice.lly. '!ha.t there is going to have to be some subsidy which ~iil enable our producers to acquire the equipment that: they ll!USt need if we, 0 are gd.ng to Compete 2nd take advantage o! certain impro~ements in the fishing industry in ~orth America. MR. A. ~OP~ELL: Mr. Speaker, 1 wonder if the hon. gentleman ~ould permit a question? With regard to the engir.eering and architectural services which Canadian Vickers have.

Does the hon. gentle;~an feel that for a nomin<:ll sum or similar services could be obtained from say European sources? This ~ould be in regard to ~dern designs, new designs in trawlers? MR. RICKI-'.A.'l: Well Mr. Speaker, several of the draggers that we have operating, I may a~s~er it this way, operating out of the southcoast today, for instance were built in Canada but designed in Europe. Before I think it is th~ Prince class that operates out of Grand Bank to Honavista Cold Storage, a beautiful boat, vere designed by a ~est German, I have forgotten the name - ncrw the hon.

Minister of Fisheries; he knows - and many of the designs for these fishing bo~ts are coming fro~ Europeans. But ~y concern is, and I know it is the concern of the hon, Minister of Fisheries, that Vickers has gone industr~al, and having gone industrial, Marjstown has lost the design support that it used to have. HR. \,'OR...~LL: Does the hen. gentleman feel, does he not feel that these rlans and specifications as they come ?" the market, could net ?e acquired by a nominal sum! MR. RICKMA.'l: The answer to that is no. They cannot be acquired for & nominal sum Mr. Speaker.

Tney can be acquired, they come fairly expens!v2ly, but they are worth it. Because an architect, an able architect regards his plan and design as his personal property. Indeed one involvement that I recall &bout five or six years ago, where a company was having three or four draggers designed by the one architect. He would not allow them to use the design without his supervision and his consent for the subsequent three draggers. But the plan not for a nominal s=, but the plans and the designs and the changing designs, because there is no comparison Mr.

Speaker, between a stern dragger that i~ produced in Rolland ten years, ~~d the ones that are coming out of the shf.pyards today. A..'ld this is ~·hat ~I'

April 6th., 1970 T~pe no.340 I-ag;a 1 but we got to have it in Mc!rystown, if this

part is going to survive. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are two other "!..-;;'IZ.ll 'l:'.a.tters in rr.y district that seem to be arousing a great deal of public controversy.

In fa~t the mayor, deputy ~3yor and to~~ ~anager from Grand Baru< are in this b:.dld:!.ng r:!.ght now vith respect to certain problems in that towu. · One I ~·ocld hope that the Hinister of Hunicipal Affairs has well in hand and that is the collapse of the water tower rhat took place in that to~~ last year and w~ich has placed the ~ater pressure and the fire protection of that town in serious jeopardy, Tne plans have been on the dra~ir.g boards moving slowly back and forth be~·een Ottawa and St.

John's for the last three years, a~d the slo~Mness of it has been painful ar>d in cy opi~ion the uq;ency has never been appreciated. Let us hope that this g.::avity fed ·-systern that has to be instal:ed thi~ year, if the plant is to continue to cperate, if the town is to continue to grow, will come from DREE. It was supposed to come fro~ DREE'S predecessor and before that it was supposed to come fran the Federal De!=lart~ent of Fisheries but my non. frie~d -rhe ~!inister of Fisheries and I knw that the stuff comes down the St.

La~rrence like cold tr.nlasses and you have to wait for emergencies ~nd urgencies of the situation to ge~ any action, but I believe, I hope we are getting some action n~N; otherwise the situation is serious and I do not want to exag~erate the seriousness of it. The other problem 15 one which affects the pride and emotions of the people of the south coast, tbe ?ride and the e~~tiqns of the people w+.o resi~e in the district of He•mitage and the pride ar.d the emotions of the people who reside in the district of Fortune Bay and Placentia .West as well as the district of Burin.

In cy maiden speech in this House, I asked, suggested and reco~ended the time had come for the Government . of this Provir.ce to give some recognition the d~ep sea fishermen and other tr.E..ster mariners ;tho lost their lives in the prosecution of the fishery and in the prosecutior, of the merchant service during the past 200 or 300 years in Newfoundlaud. At the same time, if people war.t memorials, and if p~ople are entitled to metr~rials which they are, then a me~rial ehould be a worth~hile one. It should be a functional one.

It should be one that vill bring benefit to the people who are me~rialized and a suggestinn was made by me in this hon. House of what be!:ter ~May cc'..ll~ t~·ds be done then by the

; . .. A~ril 6th., 1970 !z.pe r.o. 340 Page 2 constru~tion of a building in the to~~ that suffered the greatest loses. of ¥~st to~~s suffered some. There was the to~~ of Grand Bank, a building ~hich vo~d acco=date extension services from Nemorial University, exte:1.sion services from the Fisheries College and ~museum. This was announced, Mr. Speaker, and it was announce:! that the Yugoslav pavilion would be built in Grand Bank ar:d this would be a memorial to the deep sea fishe~en and also in that building would be provided a great mari~ime . museum. The people of this House became enthused.

Within a week the Harystcwn Tow~ Council had written, offering to provide certain historical objects from the district of Placentia Hest. Similar offers came from Hernitage and from Fortune Bay, and everybody went at this with a great deal of enthusiasm. The curator of the museum here drafted the plat~. He has since left us and things were ready. The steel arrived. The Government bought a piece of land in Grand Bank and that steel has been resting there for a year and a half. It has become a source of embarrassment to Gove~ent.

It is offensive to the people vho see ~~at is going or. there and to those who are not quite a sensitive, it is a source of amusement . The fact is, Y..r. Speaker, that after spending a g-ceat deal of I'!oney all we have at Grand Bank tocay is a pile of rusting steel up behind the football field; so much so that some engineers and architects are now e~ressing concern that unless action is taken very quickly the ~rkings on this steel will disappear and without the markings then the steel cannot be re~~t~eted i~ the manner intended. ¥~. Speaker, we realize that Government have to be prudent.

Govern~ent cannot spend money like drur~e:1. sailors, but at the sa~e time, Hr. Speaker, what concerns us is that to date in answer to a question directed to the hon. ' the ~~nister of Public Works, Question no. 63 on the Order Paper: t"hat is the amount of money spent en the Grand ilank pavilion to date2 The answer $812,000. For wr~t? A. pile of r~sting steel that unless used this year ·~11 never be usable. A few items of interest have been stored in some warehouses in Grand Bank and that is all we have. Mr.

Speaker, be it the Yugoslav pavilion or be it sone other buildi~g, the faet of the matter is that the r::.st.eric3 College are now trying to start an e~e~ion pro gram on the Burin Peninsul~. They have been relegated to using a

April 6th., 1~70 Tape no. 340 Pa;11:e 3 trailer and they move it arou!ld. This is the p.reat Fisheries College in the great deep sea fishing area of this Province. All they can lay their hands on is a trailer. The extension departrr.ent of }!e!:'orial University - the poor chap \Jho was down there, a very able fellow, he has nm:here to go. He cannot function. The enthusiasm that "as built up along the whole south coast, even up to the district of the hon. the Party l.nip, cy friend from . Burgeo-LaPoile.

They felt at long last that they 'll'ere going to see a preservation of so~e historical objects from along the south coast and that is all they h~ve heard of it.

I asked the hon. the Minis~er of Public Works whether he is ;.o.:-;,·: ,__-:..._-:~ preparing his esti~ates, whether he is getting his estimates ready to bring to Treasury Board and will he then - works with his co~leagues on the budget in preparing the budget - will be please not forbet the firm, irrevitable commitment that was made to the people who reside in the five electoral districts that constitute the Federal .riding of Burin-E~rgeo vith respect to this pavilion that they are building?

If you do not like the building, if the · steel !s rusted beyond recall, throvl that st.eel out in Fortune :Say out. give us a building. I will bet that we could put up a bui~.ding with everything that is required and with the Govern~ent offices that are required probably even cheaper now. Certainly we could do it less for less than $800,000 4nd far less than the estimated cost t~at was given in ~n answer to one of these questions. Mr. Speaker, the hen. Minister of Fisheries made reference during his particiption in this debate to some of the proble~s that are now facing the deep sea fishery of Newfoundland.

These problems were reacted by the'hon. the se~or member for E.r. ¥.ain. Hr. Speaker, you would hear arguments emanati~g at ti~es from the Gove~nt side of the House in particular that Fis~eries haul within the jurisdiction of the Government of Canadd, and I think the expression that the hon. the Premier used here is, "fish as fish belongs to the Gove=ru!lent of Canada." Mr. Speaker, you cannot dismiss the Fisheries of Newfoundland that way. The sicple fact, ~r. Speaker. is that certain prime species of fish that played a tremendous

part in the economy of this Province have virtually disappeared. /5;;. §

April 6, 1970 Tape no. 340 Par;e 4 In 1954 to 1956 sevEnty percent of the fish p-rocessed !.n the travler- plants in Newfou:1dl;;.nd vas haddock. Since thzt tfy;,e haddock has to all intents and puposes disappeared. Haddock was ~stly, as Mr. Speaker knows, caught on the WEstern grounds and on St. Pierre Bank. Wnat hap~ened, }(r. Speaker, was that the Russians in particular got on to the southern Gracd Eanks in July and Augu.;~ t, -which is the spa.,-ninr, seasun for heddock and destro yed the spatl'll and with it destroyed one of the tr..ajor species that we '!.'ere fishing for in this Province for generations.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there are other species that are facing. the same danger. Red fish is becoming a scarcer item on the Grand Banks and some biologists say that the substainable stock of cod yield was passed in 1968. The same biologists who were makinp; profound and \~orricd 'pronounce ments as to the destruction of the cod fishing grounds, the Hamilton Inlet cf Labrador, and as the hon. ~anister of Fisheries said in this House recently that is probably the reason why the Labrador fishery has been a failure for the past two years.

They ar'e now sayin!! the sarr:e thing about the cod fishery as it develops on the Grand Banks. 111ere are certain significant facts, Mr. Spe~~er, that in 1954 the per trawler catch ~~cl reme~ber in 1954 they were using prin!arily side draggers. Per trawler hour was 2.220 pounas of fish. In 1968 there were new ships, ne~; equipment. stern draggers and the catch fell to ' 1,100 per tra<rler hour, to catch cod, to catch rose fish. Now, Mr. Speaker, surely the d~nger sip.nals are up.

Surely there is a danger that if prudence and cou~age is not used with respect to our fishing grounds - they b:long to us not the Russians. We will be placed with the same situation in that we can talk about prices and we can talk about salt cod fish marketing boards until the co~s come home. These will be of no use to us, if our fish ztockshave been depleted, }!r. Speaker, ~and this surely may co;£ to pass. What concerns me, Mr. Speaker, is a me rn~er of this House, as a member for the district of Burin. Is it the cry for conservation ~ethods?

The cry for conservatio~ on the,,pat:t of· the Governuent of Canada is not cor.1ing fro:n the Gove=ll!Ent of Nevfoundland. The only organized body in this Province that I knot~. of, elected body, at least, that is taking a stand and bringing to the attentinn of the Federal /5.2.( .-

. --.. ~-- ,,. .. April 6, 19:!0, T:!::>;:, no. 3!o

r) Burin Pen<.n!':U1<!. I s~y !".ore poucr to the::.. nut surely, if -.:e are· $;Ointi to m<:'ke an i!'l:>OC': in O':tn:~a - couln yo•t im::tr,ir-.e <m<!t uou1.d h1'.p!:Jcn, if t!le tae export'J.tion o£ ~-~hc<Jt or the !JU:!!p"!.n;:; of o:!.l f::or.• .i\:'..bc:-te co;m to the do not tal:: to U.3 .about -who has jurisdiction ov~r ·1.'1:1at: - do n;)t tc'!.J. c:; t:c hcv~ not jur!.sdiction over fish." The fact of the =t:ter is tt.2t the fish in t'ur rrovinc:e or tloe t:h~i:!t in OL':' Provi~ce' t.Or the oil in our Province Clr wh.1tcver t'!'OV:!t:cc you arc tc!~:ir:!:;: about - tllis is ocr main livlii,ocd.

Our II<l"C ccct!cr:~' is rascc on ;_t, e!:'.J t~c demand of you li'ltatever steps can be ta!,en cr shoul,1 he U.l.ccn_ u:!thi.n your jurisdiction te taken. The, Cov~rr.r.>ent of 1-:eHfouncH;:;.r:d ha5 n~t ~rckc!! .:t r:!::-·bl:!.!'~ word and ~lr. Spc;oaker, "While we stand here nnd l:hilc 11e talk <:bout what J~ ha~~eninz to the fish markets and the ir.~rove~ent in pr.icc~ - the sim~le fact is that our fish stocks are being cut out :;:ight fr:'m un.lc=ncnth us nnd we h".Ve to rely em the joint council~ to take the le<'.d for ::-11 of I:ec;f:e>'t!!:2~-<'-:--:l. Mr. Sr-e:1ker ;S27 ·! ·- I I I t I I I I f I I I f

April 6th. 1970 Tape 341 •. PK- 1 Mr. Speaker, you mr;;o ': · :, well what cc:-:solati~o.;::.methods can be taken1 If any hon. :mewbe!:s will z:.o.:' ~.i., and if they have been read:!ng, and I am sure they have certain press rel·>~,;~s and stete!:!e::ts tll2Ce by the hon. Mr. Davis in Ottaora. He is starting to refer rather ginserl .:Jr to some of the banks off our east coast: as being our V'!!:ers.

That is, Canada, forget title to the bank, forg~?.t the Continental SJ-,.elf there, but what he is slowly and surely thir::k.iug into the GovernEent of Canada is that regardless of who has title, that Canada s.s the coutal.•,l!l:.S.t!?,nearest to the Grand B.a!'.k, nearest to Quaero 1 nearest to Mezzin and Green Bank, m1d St. Pierre Bank, that Canada has the responsibility to manage the fish stock on these banks. And, Mr.

Speaker, you cannot sit back and wait for I.C.N.A.F to pass resolution to control the harvesting of haddock, because there are too 1ll2tq members in I.C.N~,F con~lict of interest, ,:r.n anyone rne::>ber nation has a veto. \fuat we had to do, Mr. Speaker, ls to use th~ same policy, the sar!!e approach, ~ybe the s~e legalistic theox7, as the United States has used, vith rezpect to George's Bank and Brown's Bank. What that country has done is this, it knovs the spawning season, for particular species of fish en George's Bank and Bruwn's Bank.

Rightly or wrongly, regardless of ~here it sits, under international l.!.!l'0 the !J!lited States saya ve have the t:igjt to manage'-•.these t~·70 banks it:.sofar as the stocks of fish r-t~ concernEd. And the Gover=ent of Canada had precisely that right, vith respect to Hamiltoa Inlet E2nk, vith respect to the Grand Ban!:s, with respect to Quaere Bank or any o~her ba:1k, that \.'e fish off • but it has not done it. George's Bank, Mr. Speaker, would be considerably further from the American ~hore, I am looking at the hon. ~nister of Fisheries when 1 say this, than the St.

Pierre Bank or Quaere Bank would be from Ne~foundlm1d or Nova ~cotia. I do not know the exact distance. Brown's Ba~k as I recall it is of the Mouth of the Bay of Fundy, it is south. But, the significant thing, }~. Speaker, is this, that the United States has taken a stand. l~ow the Govenlillent of Canada is sitting up there is blissful, I was going to say in blissful ignorance, but I suppose that ~auld be unkind. HCN. AlDD~ .}!ALONEY: (~I~IISTER OF. FISHERIES) Would the hon. me~ber percit me a question?

Is he aware that the agree~ent that was reached, for the eKtension on George's Bank was indeed an agree~ent, !t was not an unilateral position tek~u by the Goverr~ent of the VP.ited Stat~9. ~t ~a$ an c3re~~ent reached in ~egotiatioa at the table with Canada, with Russia, with Poland, East Germany, /5" .l. Y'

(no excuse l!:e, not East Ge=.;.;ny) but the Sca.ulinavia co·.mtrJ and France, Portugal, ~'d Spain the only countrj who did not participate in that agree~ent, 'loitich .,as regarded not ~:u·:h more ~han a gcn ::lcmen' s agreement, Yas reached far consideratioo of the fact that haddock did spawn on Geo~ge's Bank i:-. the months-JEf March, April, a!ld !1-ay, and th!! extension, for those three l:!Onths was reached, as I say, by gentleman's agreement, the=e is no firm packed or binding packed, there is hoping that the co<!ntrles vi.ll abstain, they ~rill honour their cc=itu:ent, they realize the difficulty in policit:g such an agreeoent, the co!..!Iltries do o.ot hs.,;e the forces to police every square mile of George's Bank, so it is true perh?PS initiated by the United States, bue it is being carried o~t as part of ~n agree~ent reached around the table •.

MR. RIC.!O!AN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the hen. the Hinister of Fisheries there is an agreement in effect with respect to George's Bank, botween Canada and Paland and Russia that I knew of, I was not aware of East Ge~any. But the significant thing, Mr. Spea~er, is this, that this sort of agreement, and I believe, the hon. the ~~nister of Fisheries, would agree that, a lot of this is done to thrive through I.C.N.A.F, this is a veto ~~ittcn organization, when they agree on a particular 'conclusion, it is fine.

But the thing is, tf the United States had stated as opp9sed and as a fact, that as a coastal state, it has a right to manage the stocks of the banks, there o~f it~ coast. And the hon. Mr. Davis the Federal Minsiter of Fisheries in·Vanco~ver has indicated for the first ti~e this year that Canada is beginning to think along the s~e lines and as a coastal state it has the right to ~~nage the stocks of the banks. there off its coast. And the bon. Mr.

Da~~s. the Federal Minister of Fisheries in Vancouver, has indicated for the first time this year that Canada is beginning to think along the same lines, and that as a coastal state it has the right to manage the stocks of fish on the banks of its east tnd west coast. But, Mr. Speaker, the point I am ~aking is this, that we have the Government of Canada showing sose concern for the fisheries of the Canadian nation. Tney are aware of the fact. or they should be aware of t