Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 53B (41st Legislature, 4th Session)

41-4-53b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXII No. 53B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, May 16, 2019 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Man. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson Ind. GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen, Hon. St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

1959 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, May 16, 2019 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 240–The Elections Amendment Act Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Fort Richmond): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Selkirk (Mr. Lagimodiere), that Bill 240, The Elections Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi électorale, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs. Guillemard: Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure today to introduce Bill 240 to this House.

The Elections Amendment Act requires candidates to disclose offences that they have pleaded guilty to or been convicted of. Offence convictions while a youth or for which a pardon was granted under the Criminal Code are excluded. This bill will encourage the practice of voluntary disclosure of information for anyone seeking to run in the provincial election. It does not exclude those with offence records from running for any party. Madam Speaker, it is important for Manitobans to be informed about the candidates who are seeking their vote and trust. Informed choices create a stronger democracy. Thank you.

Madam Speaker: Is it t he pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Vyshyvanka Day Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I am proud to rise in the House today to celebrate international Vyshyvanka Day.

Vitayemo, welcome, to our guests from our Ukrainian community who have joined us to celebrate this very special day. Vyshyvanka Day is a wonderful occasion where Ukrainian communities all over the world wear embroidered shirts as a symbol of national unity. But vyshyvankas are much more than just beautiful garments, they are steeped in Ukrainian tradition and significance. Archeological research in Ukraine shows that this very special embroidery depicted on vyshyvankas has existed there since prehistoric times. And today, Canada is one of 50 countries participating in Vyshyvanka Day.

Madam Speaker, we know Canada shares a strong kinship with Ukraine. Canada was the first western country to recognize Ukraine's declaration of independence in 1991. And here at home, the history of Ukrainian immigration is of great significance to Manitoba, with the very first wave of Ukrainian newcomers arriving in the late 1800s. Now Manitoba is home to a large population of Ukrainian descent, including my family, Madam Speaker , who came here with a hope and a dream for a better future and immigrated here back in 1905 and 1906.

Our government is excited to support this symbolic initiative that raises awareness of the tremendous pride Ukrainians have in their commu - nity and cul ture. By proudly wearing vyshyvankas, we pay tribute to the contributions that the Ukrainian community has made to the development of a vibrant, multicultural Canada and Manitoba. Madam Speaker, I want to thank the members of Ukrainian community for joining us here today. Dyakuyu [thank you]. Please extend our best wishes for continued prosperity and growth in the years to come. Thank you for joining us. Ms.

Flor Marcelino (Logan): Welcome to our guests from the Ukrainian community.

1960 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 Madam Speaker, her e in Manitoba and around the world, Vyshyvanka Day unites Ukrainians and people of Ukrainian descent. The third Thursday in May is about celebrating Ukrainian heritage, creating a sense of cultural pride and solidarity and promoting artistic and cultural expression. Madam Speaker, t he vyshyvanka is a very familiar sight in Manitoba. The traditional white frock covered with beautiful embroidery is a standard at many Ukrainian celebrations.

Masterful hands embroider colourful patterns and designs that are specific to the different and diverse regions of Ukraine. The artistry behind a traditional vyshyvanka was inspired by the power of protective symbols. Meanings behind the embroidered symbols and patterns range from circles that represent the sun an d harmony, grape bunches that symbolize happiness and horses that symbolize aspiration. I am particularly proud to support Manitoba's Ukrainian heritage because it has been so critical to the history of Manitoba's labour movement.

The Ukrainian Labour T emple, located in the constituency of Point Douglas, is the only surviving labour hall associated with the turbulent events of the 1919 strike. It remains a continuing source of pride, as well as a site for labour organization, activism and celebration to this day. I encourage everyone to attend the Vyshyvanka Day walk, which will start at 6:30 at the Taras Shevchenko monument, here at the Legislature. Thank you to all the organizers– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Leave.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the member to complete her statement? [Agreed] Ms. Marcelino: Thank you to all the organizers, including Oseredok Ukrainian Cultural and Educational Centre and happy Vyshyvanka Day. Dyakuyu. [Thank you]. Madam Speaker: Are there any other members speaking to the ministerial statement? Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I think it is important that we recognize Vyshyvanka Day. This is an important day for the Ukrainian community.

We have many, many who have come from Ukraine to here in Canada, and we stand in strong support of people in Ukraine now and into the future as far as we can see. We wish you all the best on Vyshyvanka Day. Madam Speaker: Further ministerial statements? The h onourable Minister for Status of Women, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement? International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Our government is pleased to acknowledge that tomorrow, Friday, May 17th, is International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia. The date of May 17th was specifically chosen to commemorate the World Health Organization's decision in 1990 to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder. May 17th is now celebrated in more than 130 countries, including 37 where same-sex acts are still illegal. Thousands of initiatives, big and small, are reported throughout the planet.

As the Manitoba government, we are pleased to support employee networks such as WAVE, which stands for We are All Valuable and Equal. WAVE was formed to help foster understanding and inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity diversity within the Manitoba civil service, and is a valuable resource to government of Manitoba employees. The network is open to all interested Manitoba government employees, including those who identify along the LGBTQ continuum, as well as allies.

Along with our government's support for WAVE, we are also very pleased to have developed training for employees of the Manitoba government on the topic of gender and sexual diver sity. This training is called: Supporting Transgender and Gender Diverse Manitobans...a conversation. It was designed by government employees to help ensure our public service is inclusive and responsive to all Manitobans.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1961 Madam Speaker, Manitoba is a beautiful province, made rich by our diverse people and our communities. We are proud to rise in support of International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia. We are stronger because of our diversity, and Manitoba will always be a self –a safe and welcoming place for people who identify along the entire rainbow spectrum.

Madam Speaker, Pride week is almost upon us and, along with marching in the Pride relay with many of my colleagues from the Manitoba Legislature, I'm also looking forward to the Winnipeg FrontRunners Pride Run and walk on Saturday, June the 1st. All proceeds of this event support Reaching Out Winnipeg, which is an organization that supports the resettlement of LGBTQ refugees. This event takes a lot of effort to plan, and I thank all the organizers and volunteers. Thank you, Madam Speaker. * (13:40) Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): Tomorrow is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia, where we speak out against discrimination LGBTQ2S* relatives experience, and come together as allies to raise awareness and promote inclusion. The charter–the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, alongside the Manitoba Human Rights Code, enshrines our right to live free from discri - mination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Tragically, prejudices still exist today. LGBTQ2S* people and non- binary citiz ens experience acts of discrimination and hate daily.

They face higher levels of discrimination that affects their safety, their health, their ability to get employment and their interpersonal relationships. The Canada Trans Youth Health Survey found that the risk of suicide amongst transgendered youth is 16 times higher than cisgender youth. This is simply tragic and horrible and must not be allowed to continue. As legislators, we have to be loud in our support of our relatives in the LGBTQ2S* community a nd stand up against discrimination not only today but every day. Our support has to be rooted not only in our words but also in the policies that we put forward.

When drafting legislation, we must examine how we are supporting or not supporting the LGBTQ2S* community. There are many events coming up across the province that showcase the strength and diversity of Manitoba's LGBTQ2S* community with Pride Winnipeg. And we say miigwech to our relatives for their continued courage and resiliency. Miigwech. Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, tomorrow, Friday, May 17th, 2019 marks the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia.

People across Manitoba and 'acround' the world will stand tall against all form s of hate and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. Pride week kicks off on Friday, May 24th, with a flag-raising at City Hall, and the following weekend, on Saturday, June 1st, the third annual Trans March will take place. The P ride festival has grown immensely since the first Pride march back in August of 1987. And a friend of mine, Jim Kane, marched in that first march. He is –he's a very well-known and actually nationally respected figure because he has been HIV positive since that time.

It's an absolute miracle that he's alive today. But I remember him telling me the story that, at the time, the chief of police said that there were–that– was nobody who was gay in the entire police force, and one of Jim's friends had wanted to march in the Pride Parade. He had actually walked in the Pride Parade with his head covered and the next year had hoped to march in uniform but was unable to do so because he died. He died–complications due to AIDS.

And it was the –it's important to mark an d recognize that this discrimination is ongoing and what a challenge it can be, but there was a thinker and a speaker in the United States who said that when it comes to people accepting people who are LGBTQ or GSRD, as they are sometimes called, is that it's important to remember that while acceptance can be slow, that the love is always there. Diversity is our strength. The government of Manitoba and all of us as elected officials must stand together and continue to stand up against bullying, discrimination and intolerance not just today but every day.

And I'm very –I'd just like to say that I'm very proud that at our annual general meeting the Manitoba Liberal Party launched what we believe

1962 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 is one of the first ever gender -sexual-relationship- diverse associations of any political party in Canada. To all who celebrate, thank you very much for your courage in standing up. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wonder if I could have leave to speak to this statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Mr. Fletcher: I'd like to thank the minister for raising international homophobia, transphobia and biphobia day.

It is international day, and I'd just like to take a moment just to reflect. This year, the sultan of Brunei had made sexual orientation punishable by death–punishable by death. There's countries like Saudi Arabia where the result is the same. So emphasis on international. Because, as we bring more awareness, the more likely people will help –share our values. My –at the Canadian Mennonite University, just a few weeks ago, I attended a very interesting presentation by the horticultural society. It was packed.

They had a internationally recognized gardener and I'm proud to say that that gardener–and his partner, Brent–was my uncle, Uncle Tom, Thomas Hobbs. And he has been in one of the most committed relationships I know. Madam Speaker, another person who's played a major role in my life is Donna Kurt. We used to go on canoe trips with the Manitoba Naturalists Society and the Manitoba Recreational Canoe Association. When we were in the wilderness there was no social hierarchy, no stereotypes, didn't matter how much money you had and it didn't matter what your sexual orientation was. Now, that was in the '80s.

Hopefully, it doesn't matter in Canadian society anymore. And perhaps, with a little bit of a push, anyone, anywhere in the world, can love without the fear of the death penalty. Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are so lucky to live in Canada and to be progressive on these types of issues. And I like to thank everyone for giving me the opportunity to speak. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Make Your Move Engineering Competition Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Madam Speaker, today I am so proud to rise to recognize three amazing individuals in my Riel constituency.

Anora Knox- Suss, Feliciaa Baldner and Kaylee Clarke are junior high students at Darwin School and are here today along with their teacher, Ms. Klassen. This team of girls were one of three teams from Darwin School that participated in the Make Your Move competition at the University of Manitoba's Faculty of Engineering on March 9th. The compe - tition is held annually to coincide with International Women's Day and helps promote and celebrate women in engineering and encourage young girls to consider pursuing a future as a professional engineer.

The competition featured 20 teams comprised of grade 7 and 8 girls representing schools across Manitoba. Each team was led by a female pro - fessional engineer who helped the girls with their tasks. What's incredibly remarkable, Madam Speaker, is that the challenge was only revealed to the teams on the day of the competition. This year's challenge was to design a device that simulated an ocean trawler that can remove plastic debris from the ocean. And this Darwin team of Anora, Feliciaa and Kaylee worked diligently and won first place in the competition and were the top team for Manitoba in 2019.

These three young individuals are leaders in our community and role models for other girls as they work to advance the success in –of women in STEM. They should be very proud of their achievements. And I am so pleased to honour these remarkable young girls and be able to represent them in the Manitoba Legislature. I also want to acknowledge the incredible passion and encouragement of their teacher, Ms. Klassen, who has provided these students with confidence in themselves that will last a lifetime. Please help me and honour and acknowledge Anora, Feliciaa and Kaylee, along with their teacher, Ms. Klassen.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sustainable Development.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1963 Ms. Squires: I ask for leave to have their names entered into Hansard, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: As the member has already included them in the statement, their names will be in Hansard. Concordia ER Closure Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): It is only two weeks until June, the time when this PC government plans to close the Concordia ER. Yet the Health Minister continues to delay informing Manitobans about the state of their health care. Instead, he is hiding behind a pending report by Dr.

David Peachey to avo id telling Winnipeggers if they will lose another ER. * (13:50) We already know this report will be flawed. Dr. Peachey has said that staff at Winnipeg hospitals are on board with the health- care 'reorgization', but this is simply not true. Front -line wo rkers and nurses are short -staffed, forced to work long hours of overtime, while visits to emergency rooms have spiked. In recent months, a record number of ambu- lances arrived at Winnipeg hospitals. Now is not the time to close those ERs.

Nurses and front-line staff are saying they aren't ready, when northeastern Winnipeggers say they don't want Concordia ER closed, and even the expert who penned the original report said he has not heard people say they are prepared for the closure. We need this gov ernment to be transparent and to tell Manitobans about the fate of the Concordia ER. Thank you. Kari Klassen Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, today I rise in the House to admire the courage, compassion, kindness and determination of a young woman's efforts to help others battling cancer while she herself undergoes chemo for breast cancer.

This individual is East Selkirk resident Kari Klassen. When Kari started her chemo, she was provided with the standard list of products she would nee d to pick up to use during treatment, products like skin cream, since the chemo dries out the skin; nail hardener to help stiffen soft nails; Chap Stick for dry, chapped stick lips; and special soft toothbrushes that are less abrasive on bleeding gums. Shopping for items is one of the last things those going through chemo are thinking about doing. It's one more load to an already heavy burden.

Kari decided to create packages with the needed items to give out to those starting chemo. In addition to the r ecommended items, Kari and her husband Dallas add a courage rock to the packages in memory of Kari's father, who recently lost his battle with cancer. Kari's father used to carry a courage rock on his journey. They have named their effort the Hummingbird Project. In indigenous teachings, the hummingbird teaches you to appreciate and love the miracle of life while symbolizing wonder and beauty with unlimited energy. Hummingbirds are healers, bringing love, hope and good luck.

This is the message Kari and Dallas want to bring to others. The Hummingbird Project is helping bring a little bit of comfort to cancer patients as they face a very difficult and emotionally confusing time. Kari and Dallas have distributed over 200 care packages to Manitobans. It is truly an honour to have such caring and giving individuals in our community who help others to seek the beauty in each and every day. Madam Speaker, Kari and her husband Dallas have joined us here today. I ask all members to rise and help acknowledge their compassion and kindness. Filipino-Canadian Heritage Event Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): I wanted to use this opportunity to share an upcoming event with everyone. So here is the whole who, what, where, when, why of it all. Who: Our community. Whatever that may mean to you, everyone is invited. What: It is an opportunity to celebrate and learn about Filipino-Canadian heritage. We are going to be having live performances of dancing, including Sisler's Most Wanted, singing, poetry reading, as well as short historical presentations of our Filipino community and how the community has contributed to our Canadian heritage, economy and more.

There will be many exhibits to enjoy, learn from and have fun at, as well as ongoing basketball tour - naments and some good food. Now, Madam Speaker, I'm sure my colleagues are all sitting at the edges of their seats wondering,

1964 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 where is this event happening? Well, let me tell you. It is going to be at Maples Collegiate; that's 1330 Jefferson Avenue, on Saturday, J une 1st from 4 to 9 p.m. Now, lastly, I wanted to share why this event happening. As everyone in this House already knows, our Filipino -Canadian heritage is being recognized at both a federal level and provincial level for the first time ever, simultaneou sly. We know that celebrating Filipino heritage is not new to Winnipeg, but it is new for Canada as a nation.

For the first time ever, it will be celebrated and recognized from coast to coast to coast. So, Madam Speaker, if you–well, not you specifically, but you are invited–are free on June 1st, I hope that you consider attending. The event is family friendly and is a come and go as you please, so bring your kids or just pop by and say hi. In closing, I just want to give a big shout -out to all of our dedicated volunteers and all of their continued efforts and hard work. June 1st will be a blast, and I hope to see you there. Arthur-Virden Constituency Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk (Arthur-Virden): Madam Speaker, the great constituency of Arthur -Virden has been in existence for 30 years. It was created by the distribution in 1989, combining the former constituencies of Arthur and Virden. The Arthur -Virden constituency is in the southwest corner of the province that borders up to Riding Mountain, Spruce Woods, S askatchewan and North Dakota, and the beautiful Turtle Mountain Provincial Park. Arthur -Virden constituency's two biggest industries are agriculture sector and the oil and gas sector. Jim Downey was the first MLA for Arthur - Virden who served in 1977 to 1999.

He was a Cabinet minister for the Progressive Conservative governments of Sterling Lyon and Gary Filmon. He was a deputy premier during the Filmon govern- ment. Larry Maguire, the second MLA of Arthur - Virden who served from 1999 to 2013–while an MLA, Larry served as a number of critic roles in the opposition PC party. I was elected in –as MLA in a by -election in 2014 and was re -elected in 2016. During this time, I served as Deputy Speaker, board member for the International Peace Garden and the Fiscal Responsibility Committee.

Madam Speaker, one major thing that three of us had in common was that we loved to fundraise for the party. During the recent boundary changes in 2018 with the Manitoba boundary commission, Arthur - Virden will no longer be a constit uency in the next provincial election. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank each of the constituents of Arthur -Virden constituency for the past, current and future support as your MLA. I am now pleased to take on the candidacy for the next provinci al election for Turtle Mountain which will make up 50 per cent of the old Arthur - Virden constituency.

Madam Speaker, you have to look at it this way: it is the end of a 30- year dynasty for Arthur -Virden but a beginning of a new one for Turtle Mountain. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we – [interjection] Order. Prior to oral questions, we have some special guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. They happen to be special guests of the member for Burrows (Ms. Lamoureux). And we'd like to welcome her mother, Cathy Lamoureux, and her two aunts, Sharon and Charmaine, who are visiting from Regina.

And we'd like all of –we'd–all of us would like to welcome all of you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Concordia and Seven Oaks Hospitals Request to Retain ER Services Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, it looks like in a few minutes, residents of northeast Winnipeg will find out whether or not they'll have an emergency room in a few weeks.

This is the latest step in a bizarre saga brought about at the Premier's behest where first they're going to close the emergency room really quickly; and then they were going to close it a little less quickly; then maybe they're not so sure; but definitely, the plan's working–that's why they're

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1965 having second thoughts about closing the emergency room and so on. The one thing that has remained consistent throughout this are the voices of the people of northeast Winnipeg, and I can still hear them loud and clear: save our ER, save our ER. And, Madam Speaker, the seniors in that area know that they want acute care close to home, so I'd simply ask the Premier if he will now, today, finally admit that he will not close the emergency rooms at Concordia and Seven Oaks hospitals. Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Of course, Concordia operated the largest an d most frequently used waiting room for a long, long time, Madam Speaker, under the previous government, and they did nothing about it. They knew that there was a problem. They knew that the waits in Concordia were the longest in Canada, but they didn't have the courage to address the problem. We do, Madam Speaker. We'll fix the mess they created. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: Well, it's interesting to see that the Premier no longer wants to defend his plan to close emergency rooms around the city of Winnipeg. And, certainly, we have been saying for quite some time that this plan is a disaster and the idea that you should close emergency rooms, including the emergency room at Concordia, is a mistake. * (14:00) Of course, we know that nurses feel the same way. They put in letter form very clearly that 97 per cent of their members said that they were concerned about these changes, did not agree.

And in their letter, they said uneq uivocally that they are there to strongly oppose the closure of Concordia emergency and the Manitoba government's hospital reorganization. So I would put it to the Premier again: will he now, today, admit that his plan to make cuts and closures in our he alth-care system is a disaster and that he's going to back off from the closures of the emergency rooms at Seven Oaks and Concordia? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, there is an adage that I think applies at this point, which is that planning is the act of caring and caring enough to act.

The previous government commissioned a report because they knew there was a problem. They commissioned a report; they just didn't care enough to act on it. We do. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Well, we know that health care is getting quite a bit worse in the province of Manitoba. We have heard this repeatedly from patients. We've heard this from front -line workers.

And now, of course, we have it in black and white from the nurses of Manitoba in the letter that they sent to the government, completely decrying this disaster of a plan to close emergency rooms. The nurses said unequivocally, in a few spots, that this plan is simply not working for patients, nor is it working for nurses. And I quote here: one nurse told Dr. Peachey, I have 26 years of experience and I will honestly admit that this is the worst I have ever seen–talking, of course, about this gove rnment's record when it comes to health care in Manitoba. Another nurse said: I worked as a nurse for 30 years.

I've seen multiple changes and cut -backs, but I've never seen our unit experience the amount of stress and adversity that followed these changes. Will the minister stand in this place and admit that his plan is failing and that he should keep the emergency rooms at Concordia and Seven Oaks open? Mr. Pallister: It's hard work, Madam Speaker, to make a system that is so broken, better. The previous government didn't have the strength or the willingness to address that work; didn't have the courage to face the challenge.

I and my colleagues have spoken to many nur ses and expressed our thanks to them for their great work, to many front - line workers throughout our health- care system for their tremendous contribution to making life better for people. But when you have a problem, Madam Speaker, as we have had, that t he previous government chose to ignore, you demonstrate when you ignore it that you don't care much. We demonstrate that we care very much by not ignoring it.

1966 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr. Kinew: Well, you know, the Premier cares to stand in the House and create these logical construc - tions that fall in upon themselves. He just doesn't care enough to walk 100 metres out to the front steps and talk to the actual nurses of Manitoba when they come down here to make their voices heard.

My colleagues–we went out and we spoke to the nurses and their message was quite clear: that the emergency rooms should stay open at Concordia and Seven Oaks hospitals, but also that the plan for health care that this g overnment has cooked up with their high -priced consultants is an utter and abject failure. We know that this government is not getting the job done on so many areas, but most acutely, they're not getting the job done when it comes to health care. Will th e Premier now admit that his plan is failing and that the emergency rooms at Seven Oaks and Concordia hospitals should stay open? Mr.

Pallister: I appreciate the fact that the member is desperate for an argument, Madam Speaker, but he should not resort to falsehoods in his

preambles. The reality is that the Canadian institute of health information has commended the Province's performance in respect of shortening waits. We have demonstrated that, in just the first two years of government, versus the last two under the previous government, there's been close to 50 years saved by Manitobans who did not have to spend that time waiting, waiting in emergency rooms without treatment, in fear and in pain. Fifty years less time spent in a waiting room, Madam Speaker, that's worth considering.

When the member speaks about compassion, I'd have to ask him, why ignore this expert consultant which they hired, whose advice, now being implemented, is resulting in such a tremendous reduction in the pain and suffering of Manitobans and their families. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, I appreciate that the leader of that party wants to ask me questions. Perhaps he'll have a chance to do more of t hat in the very near future, Madam Speaker.

And here's a welcome change for question period: I will provide an– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –answer, Madam Speaker. And here's the answer: we– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –reject their plan for health care because we listen to the people of Manitoba and we listen to nurses. And what the nurses have told us quite clearly is that this plan is not right, that the decision -making is being centralized far away from the bedside and that the people who are suffering are the patients, Madam Speaker.

We know that CIHI say that surgery wait times are increasing. The WRHA say that emergency room wait times are increasing. And nurses tell us mandatory overtime is increasing. Will the Premier now admit his plan is fatally flawed and that the emergency rooms ought to stay open? Mr. Pallister: He's just no Steve Ashton, Madam Speaker. That's the trouble. The member is able to tear things down and destroy them, but he's not able to build anything up. He can't demonstrate that he has the capability or the support to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: –actually pursue improvements in a system so desperately broken by the NDP govern- ment. Madam Speaker, we're improving the system. We'll continue to make those improvements to the system because our front -line workers want to work in a system that doesn't just work for a political party or themselves. They want to work in a system that works for Manitoba patients. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: The Premier can keep attacking me, and I'll keep standing up for the No. 1 priority of the people of Manitoba, which is health care, Madam Speaker. We know that this Premier's record when it comes to doing damage on the provincial health-care system is not a good one. Canadian Institute for Health Information tells us that surgery wait times

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1967 are increasing for hips, for knees. We know that the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority says that wait times in emergency rooms are increasing, both month over month and year over year. These are the facts, Madam Speaker. Now, at the eleventh hour before he calls an early snap election, the Premier is trying to deflate this issue and somehow emerge the victor when it comes to health care. Manitobans simply aren't buying it.

So will the Premier accept the facts of the reality of the situation that his plan is not working and finally just tell Manitobans what they've known all along: that the emergency rooms at Concordia and Seven Oaks should stay open. Mr. Pallister: I recognize, as do his own colleagues, that the member has a tendency to make it all about him, Madam Speaker. And that's why he is so sensitive to the issue of a record –a record of damage that certainly we could debate. That being said, in terms of being willing to face up to challenges, this government has demonstrated it is willing and able to do that.

The member hasn't demonstrated that and his party hasn't demonstrated that either. So the fact is that we have a health -care system that was in chaos and in crisis, and it no longer is. It's moving in the direction of healing and improving outcomes for Manitoba patients. Better care sooner is what we are about on this side of the House, Madam Speaker. We inherited a mess; we're dedicated to fixing it. Concordia and Seven Oaks Hospitals Request to Retain ER Services Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Well, speaking of chaos, the Minister of Health seems to have a hard time listening to what nurses are telling him. Well, I'll be happy to rep eat it for him. One nurse said this is the worst that they've ever seen it in 26 years of their work. That's what front -line nurses are telling that minister over there. But is he listening? No. But according to the Minister of Health, there's broad support for his plan–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –to close ERs. Well, that might be – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Smith: –true amongst consultants, but that's not what the nurses are telling him. Is he listening? No. Will the minister just listen to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –these nurses and keep Concordia and Seven Oaks open? * (14:10) Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Earlier today, I was pleased to join the Premier (Mr. Pallister), the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) and the member for Riding Mountain (Mr. Nesbitt) and to listen to Dr.

David Rush, the medical director for the Adult Renal Transplant Program, discuss how the Province's investment, and that of the Health Sciences Centre Foundation, will make a tremendous difference in the lives of people waiting on the wait - time transplant list that was too long for years and years under the NDP. A 50 per cent incr ease in the number of patients that will receive transplants in a year –what does it mean? Increasing capacity, reducing wait times, better patient satisfaction. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs.

Smi th: I know the members opposite don't want to hear what Manitobans are telling them, because we're telling them exactly what they're saying to us because they don't want to listen. They want this minister to take his earplugs out and start listening to the nurses. Here's what another nurse said: The changes that have taken place and continue to take place are not in the best interests of the nurses or the public or Manitobans. That isn't a broad- based agreement, Madam Speaker.

This minister needs to start listening, and he actually needs to get up in this House today and apologize to those nurses for misrepresenting what they're saying.

1968 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 Mr. Friesen: I did not detect a question, but I do thank the member for the opportunity–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –to help her catch up. And it might be difficult to keep up, but I want to inform her that what happened in Manitoba over the course of the last three weeks was a significant exercise by an external, independent expert in listening–l istening to clinical experts, listening to system leaders, listening to front-line workers. That work has gone on. She can continue to drone on.

But that is the important work that has been happening in this jurisdiction. And we will be very pleased to up date Manitobans into what that work has resulted in. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary Mrs. Smith: Not one person in Manitoba can trust what this minister is saying. He doesn't even have a leg to stand on when it comes to health care. We will not cut front-line services. And what has he done since he took office? Continued to cut those very same services that Manitobans rely on. The No. 1 priority in Manitoba, for Manitobans, is health care.

Does this gover nment listen? No. They put their earplugs in and pretend to. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: They actually put blinders on. Will the minister stand up today and tell us that he's going to keep Concordia and Seven Oaks ERs open? Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I thank the member because she continues to make the debate very clear. On one side, you have those who have fear. And they say go back to failed approaches. And on the other side, you have hope and you have the actual demonstration of improvement.

Let me tell the member: when it comes to the Victoria General Hospital urgent care, patient volumes are up 60 per cent, wait times are down 30 per cent, and patient experience is up to 89 per cent. Better health care sooner for Manitobans is our plan. Seven Oaks Hospital ER Request to Retain ER Services Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): The members opposite are proud and clapping for closing ERs in Winnipeg. In less than an hour, the Premier and his minister–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –and his minister will be making an announcement on phase 2 of their failing consol - idation plan.

But no matter what they say, Madam Speaker, no one, especially those that are living in north Winnipeg, believes them. They have delayed it before. They may delay it again. But no one trusts a Premier and a minister who appear to have no confidence in their very own health-care plan. Will the Premier stand up today and finally admit that their plan is an utter failure and commit to keeping Seven Oaks ER open? Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Madam Speaker, I thank that member for a question about utter failures.

And I would remind her that for 17 years her government presided over a system that was the most expensive in Canada, years in which the Grace Hospital and Concordia ranked among the highest wait times for emergency, not in the province, in the country, in the Dominion of Canada, in which people had to wait too long for ambulances and pay too much; they had to wait too long when they suspected something; they had to wait too long after diagnosis. She can own fear. We will own hope. Better health care sooner for all Manitobans is our plan. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St.

Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: Manitobans should feel that their government puts their best interests first, before the bottom line and before their own. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: Sadly, no matter what the Premier and his ministers say, residents of north Winnipeg have lost their trust in this Premier and his minister. That's because the Premier is only focused on numbers and not patient care, and certainly not

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1969 nurses in this province. That's why he's decided to close the ER at Seven Oaks, an ER residents of north Winnipeg fought for and demanded for decades. Residents of north Winnipeg deserve to have the same health care as the rest of the city. Would the Premier stop his failed plan to close Seven Oaks ER? Mr. Friesen: I will always welcome a question from members on that side of the House when it comes to trust, Madam Speaker, because the NDP broke the trust of Manitobans. They kept saying they would do better.

They kept saying they would improve emergency room wait times. They kept saying they would shorten the wait-lists for surgeries, but–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –they didn't. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: Even today, earlier, there was a planned provincial investment: benevolent people giving their money in a partnership for more trans - plant capacity that will make a difference in the lives of people that are right now on wait -lists. It's one indicator of the kind of change that is possible when we put the patient at the centre.

Doing things better; doing things differently; better health care sooner for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: Seventeen nurses representing thousands who feel the same told the minister how they feel –felt that the government was on a very dangerous path with their plan. Yet the Premier and his minister still choose and did choose not to listen. So, instead, time and time again, they chose to listen to their consultant friends rather than those who work on the front lines on behalf of all of our families here in Manitoba.

The Premier and his minister have lost the trust of front-line workers and Manitobans. Will the minister and the Premier start today standing up for the residents of north Winnipeg and keep–[interjection] Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Yes, any question from the NDP on trust is great, Madam Speaker. Eight per cent wasn't what the NDP pr omised. They promised seven. They went to the doors – [interjection]–yes, yes, they went to front -line workers' doors–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: –looked them right in the eyes and promised them they wouldn't raise their taxes, and then they jacked them up. Then they took away their right–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –to work. Then they tried to frighten them for four years and told them they're going to get fired and they didn't. Then they tried to frighte n them that they're – they tried to frighten little children across the province, told them their parents would get fired, and they didn't get fired either.

Got better job security than they ever had. * (14:20) But they also told everybody that they'd have, in Manitoba, no more hallway medicine. They said they'd end that, Madam Speaker. And that number, the number the member doesn't concern herself with, was seven –seven hours on average, people waiting; seven hours before they could get in to get even looked at, at Concordia. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, these are the numbers that Manitobans care about. Numbers they don't like. Numbers they want changed.

And, finally, six: six Cabinet ministers who knew they were miserable failures over there and just rebelled against their own party. They have no unity. They have no coherence. They have no trust in one another. We trust Manitobans with their own money. Manitobans trust– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Adele Avenue Lease Agreement Status of Children in Care Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): In the middle of health- care fiascos, a meth crisis, the Premier meddling in Crown corporations, this government has brought forward a bill to break a lease on a single building at 800 Adele.

1970 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 And, Madam Speaker, the government's story does not add up. They've said the building was vacant, but they also said there were programs there until early this year. The Minister of Finance (Mr. F ielding) said the facility was never appropriate for child care, but the Province had children there for nine years, including three years under this government. If the facility was never appropriate for child care, why did this government tolerate having any children there at all?

And did anyone from the government order the agency that was caring for children there to vacate the premises earlier this year? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I appreciate any question from the member that doesn't pertain t o larger office space, Madam Speaker. The fact is that the previous government, des - perate to deal with a serious concern, dealt with it inappropriately, and we are correcting the issue. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a supplementary question. Contract Tendering Practices Mr.

Lamont: Madam Speaker, the Premier talks a lot about his concerns about the rule of law being undermined, but it always seems to be to justify his own actions, that while his behaviour is bad, someone else's is worse. But two wrongs don't make a right, Madam Speaker. The Premier said the lesson for businesses for his passing a law to break a contract should be: don't enter into an indefensible contract at the behest of a government that is misguided in its efforts. Does the Premier realize that on this basis, virtually every agreement he has ever signed could be declared null and void? Mr.

Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, it's not a pleasant thing to have to confront a mistake that someone has made, and the previous government made a significant mistake, and we're correcting that. But, you know, as far as keeping promises, I mean, the member is consta ntly telling us about how wonderful the federal government is, yet they ran on certain promises, like balancing the books. Of course, they didn't say they'd do it. They said it would happen on its own. But they did also promise democratic reform; they di dn't deliver on that one.

In fact, he –it's very difficult to name a promise that was kept, Madam Speaker. So I encourage the member to look at the record, understand that when a mess is made by a previous government, the incoming government has an option to correct it, and that's exactly what we're doing. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Lamont: This bill is part of a larger problem with NDP and PC governments that –and their policies for years because while in power, it's not just enough for them to reward their friends, but they go out of their way to punish people they see as their opponents. The NDP passed a bill to cancel a VLT contract with Assiniboia Downs a number of years ago, and in a ch aracteristic act of projection, the Premier described it at the time as arbitrary and belligerent. Now Assiniboia Downs, which won a lawsuit, is getting $20 million from this government.

Does the Premier recognize that what he's doing is really no different than what the NDP did? Mr. Pallister: I recognize that we're standing up for Manitoba taxpayers and Manitoba citizens, Madam Speaker, and I recognize the federal Liberal government knows how to punish its opponents but also its friends. And, Madam Spe aker, I recognize also that we will stand up for the rule of law and we continue to do so. And I would encourage the federal govern - ment to do the same.

And, Madam Speaker, I would say that the member has been at least clear that he wants higher PST, he w ants higher carbon taxes on Manitobans, and he wants a larger subsidy for his political party. And I encourage him to go to the doors with all three positions. Education System Review Co-Chair's Attendance of Meetings Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I've had the pleasure to join parents, teachers, community members in many meetings on education across the province.

And a common theme across all of them is that they're concerned that this government's commission is, in fact, a politically driven exercise sim ply to justify further cuts in the education system. And the fact that the co -chair of the education commission won't even be attending a single

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1971 consultation session reinforces that idea. Instead, we know she will be in Alberta engaging in a commission there to find cuts in that province in that Conservative government. So I'd like to ask the minister: Why is it that he is not really interested in listening to Manitobans and their concerns about education? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, my understanding from the reports that I've seen is that upwards of 8,000 people have already submitted to the commission.

I heard comments from Norm Gould, the president of the Manitoba Teachers' Society – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –who says that he appreciates the way the hearings have–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: He appreciates the way the hearings have been conducted. So 8,000 people – we're obviously still hoping for more people, but had there even only been one person who ever presented their ideas, it would've been one more person than ever was consulted by the NDP, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Wi ebe: Well, those 8,000 voices are saying very clearly that small class sizes are important, that adequate supports for teachers are important and that the local voice of communities is what is important in education in this province. But the minister, of course, doesn't want to listen to that because this is a politically motivated exercise, again, designed to justify those cuts.

Yesterday, even Clayton Manness appeared to be turning on the co- chair that this minister has picked, saying that he and other commissioners were attending the meetings as observers because they wanted to listen to Manitobans and he thinks it's important that commissioners be there. But of course, one commissioner is missing in action. Why is this minister not listening to Manitobans? And why is he using this to justify further cuts in education? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I actually don't know what the 8,000 submissions say. Five thousand of them are anonymous surveys online.

If the member opposite has somehow hacked into the education review system, maybe he could advise us of that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: Well Madam Speaker, we have real concerns that this education commission is not listening when it comes to our schools, because the message at these meetings has been absolutely crystal cle ar. And nothing demonstrates their lack of listening better than the absence of one of the co-chairs of this commission who, of course, is missing in action.

And it's really too bad because we're heard from hundreds of Manitobans across the province –more and more Manitobans want their voice to be heard– that small class sizes, more supports for teachers and local autonomy for communities is what is important. And yet, this minister refuses to listen to that clear message. Will he simply listen to Manito bans, stop the cuts in education and support education in Manitoba? Mr. Goertzen: There are some–actually, some 30-some individuals who were missing in action during the 17 years that they held government in this province, Madam Speaker.

The NDP MLAs wh o sat on this side of the House for 17 years –when it comes to education, they were missing in action as the scores continue to slide for Manitoba's students, whether it was in math, or literacy, or science. Members like the member for Concordia, who has a big voice now, said absolutely nothing then. He sat silent for 17 years. He was missing in action for 17 years, and now he wants people to believe that he's been found. Well, he was lost then and he's lost now, Madam Speaker. Peguis First Nation LTE Mantagao Lake WMA Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake): Our government is committed to advancing meaningful reconciliation with First Nation communities across Manitoba. We've made major progress on treaty land entitle - ments and we've worked closely with First Nations to enhance economic development opportunities. * (14:30) Earlier this week, members of our government were in Peguis First Nation for two announcements that will be a major benefit to the people of

1972 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 Peguis. Can the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations tell us about these meaningful announce - ments and what they will mean to the people of Peguis? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I was pleased to join the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and some of my colleagues as we travelled to Peguis First Nation to deliver some good news to that community this week. Manitoba is issuing a Crown land use permit to provide Peguis with exclusive use of a quarry as part of their treaty land entitlement selection.

The Provi nce is also working to help Peguis First Nation assume certain management respon - sibilities within the Mantagao Lake wildlife manage- ment area. Unlike the former NDP government, we're working in partnership with our First Nations to grow growth and econom ic development in their communities. We'd like to acknowledge the work of Chief Hudson and Peguis First Nation for all they've done to secure opportunities, and we look forward to the positive outcomes for the people of Peguis as a result. Hip and Knee Surgery Wait Time Recommendations Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I table a copy of a letter from Rhonda Grist to the Premier. She says that she agrees with the CIHI recommendations that the maximum waiting time for a hip replacement sh ould be six months. As she says, based on her experience of waiting 11 months, more than six months causes harm to the other joints in our body. In her case, she says, after having to use a walker for 10 months before surgery and then another three to four months after surgery, her knees are no longer manageable. She says the longer waiting time is a false economy.

When will the government make the changes so that six months is the maximum waiting time for hip replacement surgery as CIHI recommends? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Well, the member is quite right that there are too many people in Manitoba who have been on long wait -lists for years and years and years. It is exactly the rationale we have in place for transforming our health-care system to be able to reduce wait times.

And while we sympathize with anyone who's waiting for those necessary surgeries, I would remind that member that only recently our govern- ment invested another $5.3 million to purchase an additional 1,000 hip and knee surgeries and 2,000 cataract surgeries, surgeries that are right now taking place. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a supplementary question. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, I table information showing that the recent wait times are among the worst in Canada.

Rhonda Grist writes, and I quote: You–she's referring to the Premier– you mentioned that your government was having some difficulty getting the doctors to work as they were away on vacation in warm places. Rhonda Grist says: Certainly your statement doesn't reflect the attitude of the orthopedic surgeons. She says at her first meeting with her surgeon, he stated he was finished his surgeries by 1 p.m. every day, and he was most unhappy about that. He wanted longer hours and although he has received them since, I ask the Premier to apologize to the many hard -working doctors who he has offended with his comments.

Mr. Friesen: The member for River Heights actually makes our point. The purpose of the Province's clinical and preventative services plan that is going on in the province and reporting back to government this spring, is exactly for the purpose of doing system planning at a coherent level and not a site level. It is exactly our commitmen t to this goal that will in future help us to plan better, help us to make full use of system resources, help medical practitioners work to the fullest scope of practice.

I thank the member for making our point that a change for the better in Manitoba he alth care is coming and that the focus all this is better health care sooner for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, Madam Speaker, the government has been promising that for more than three years, and not much has changed.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1973 Madam Speaker, Mr. Harbans Singh Brar needs knee replacement surgery. He has been immobilized by his current condition and the pain. He's been told that he will have to wait a total of 15 months from the time he first got an appointment with his surgeon until his surgery, which would mean seven more months from today to December. The wait times should be no longer than six months, as CIHI recommends. Instead, waiting times for knee surgery in Manitoba a re among the longest in Canada, as a document I table showed.

Why is the Pallister government trying to blame doctors instead of acting as it should to work with doctors to reduce the waiting times? Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, the member can't have it both ways. He's calling for shorter wait times but he's part of a party, federally, that has made cuts to health care across the board. I was at the meetings, along with the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), where the federal govern - ment said there wil l be less of an incremental increase each year for health care.

At one time, that member knows, the federal government was a 50 per cent partner in the provision of health care in the provinces; in Manitoba right now 18 per cent and going to be a hole of $2 billion over the course of 10 years. If he's standing up for health care, have him pick up the phone, call his federal government and tell them to reinstate the funding for Manitoba. City of Winnipeg Review Independence of Review Mr.

Andrew Swan (Minto): Yesterday, after I made the point that the Premier plans to conduct a partisan, political investigation for his own advantage, the Premier actually issued a rare apology in this House, and I acknowledge the Premier's apology. But, you know, an apology is really owed to the mayor and council and the people of Winnipeg. Just a month ago, this Premier was very clear there'd be an independent investigation conducted arm's-length from government, but it's not. It's happening just a few doors down from him, overseen by his Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) and his Cabinet.

Will the Premier apologize today to the people of Winnipeg for breaking his word? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I thank the member for his considerable grace in accepting my apology, Madam Speaker. I want to be clear, though, that I didn't apologize to anyone other than to you for the use of the word dim -wit in describing the member's

preamble. Madam Speaker, that being said, the – [interjection]–that being said the member has – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: That being said, the member has demonstrated that he does not understand the differ - ence between Treasury Board and the Treasury Board Secretariat. And so he can continue to put that lack of knowledge on display if he wishes, and I frankly take no exception to that, and I don't think he needs to apologize for a thing as he makes that ignorance clear to everyone in this Chamber and everyone else. Madam Speaker: Order, please.

I would just encourage members that using the word dim -wit in the House is similar to making comments about people's mental capabilities and mental abilities, and we do not encourage those kinds of words to be used in t his House as they are being viewed as being unparliamentary. So a caution to all. The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Every day, Manitobans understand a little bit more why nothing gets done , with this Premier's attitude. There's been a breakdown in trust between this government and the City of Winnipeg.

City residents have watched as the situation's devolved into a public fight, followed by angry letters from ministers that then get copied t o the media. And into this climate, the Premier, with his usual lovable style, thinks he's going to get co -operation in conducting a partisan, political investigation. In practical terms, maybe then the Premier can stand up today and tell us how he's goi ng to get the information he demands for this investigation. Is he going to compel it from the City by subpoena, or is he going to threaten to withold more money from the City, as he's already done? Mr.

Pallister: I appreciate the member's

preamble. A bre akdown in trust is what the member has been

1974 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 about throughout his entire political career and so has his party, Madam Speaker. Now, last week they attacked our government for seeking advice–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –seeking ad vice from outside consultants. This week, they attack us for having internal civil servants, neutral civil servants, do work. I guess basically their solution would be that we should do nothing about the situation. Madam Speaker, we're not going to take t hat kind of advice.

There's a serious problem in this province with the delays in inspections getting done, with delays in permitting getting done. We're already doing an investigation into our own processes. We've added the City's processes to that invest igation. We're meeting with civic officials and have success - fully worked with them on this issue and will continue to do so. * (14:40) Where the members opposite sat back and did nothing and broke the trust of Manitobans in the process, we will build on the trust that we have already earned with the people of Manitoba and with the City of Winnipeg.

Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Daylight Saving Time Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The loss of sleep associated with the beginning of daylight saving time has serious consequences of physical and mental health and has been linked to the increases in traffic accidents and workplace injuries.

(2) According to Manitoba Public Insurance news release, collision data collected in 2014 showed that there was a 20 per cent increase in collisions on Manitoba roadways f ollowing the spring daylight savings time change when compared to all other Mondays in 2014.

(3) Daylight saving time is associated with a decrease in productivity the day after clocks are turned forward, with no corresponding increase in productivity when the clocks are turned back.

(4) There is no conclusive evidence that daylight saving time is effective in reducing energy consumption. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to amend The Official Time Act to abolish daylight saving time in Manitoba effective November 4th, 2019, resulting in Manitoba remaining on Central Standard Time throughout the year and in perpetuity. And this petition has been signed by Ashley Greenley, Ryan Dueck, Joe y Duprapuk [phonetic] and many, many more fine Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Early Learning and Child-Care Programs Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive imp act on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1975 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. Signed by Nicole Johnson [phonetic], Livia Degaldo [phonetic] and Rosa Annohoi [phonetic]. Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting impact–positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal respons ibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately renumerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. Madam Speaker, this petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over thr ee years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibilities of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately renumerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We p etition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. And Madam Speaker, this petition has been signed by Kathryn Sutherland, Nikki Kollinger, Anita [phonetic] Kropp and many other Manitobans. Thank you. Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

1976 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting impact on c hildren's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy. * (14:50)

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately renumerated.

(6) Accessible, afforda ble and quality early learning and child-care programs must be accessible to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. And this is signed by Jennalisa Pavlin, Heather Deg and Leah Bartel and many other Manitobans. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Logan): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding t o stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new funding – no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge th e provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. Signed by many Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot me et the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1977 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provi ncial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. And, Madam Speaker, this petition is signed by Alan V. Johnson, Karen Angus, Jodi Hunt and many other Manitobans. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child-care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cos t of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative A ssembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. And this petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by Daniela Mattes, Christin Chiappetta, Stacey Hannah and many other Manitobans. Mr.

Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning an d child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care progra ms must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. Signed by Kristin Bazin, Charlotte McPherson, Michelle Simon and many other Manitobans. * (15:00) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I wi sh to present the following petition to the Manitoba Legislature. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating

1978 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impa ct on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. This petition is signed by Sam Frederiksen, by Sofi Alvarado, by Tom Hirch and many, many others. Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over thr ee years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has cont inued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessible, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We pet ition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also im prove quality and stability in the workforce. This petition was signed by Patrick Harding, Tara Yevtushenko, Antonio Bergamorto and many, many more. Thank you. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to read the petition on behalf of the member for Kewatinook (Ms. Klassen). Madam Speaker: Is there leave for her –for the member for Burrows to read the petition for the honourable member for Kewatinook? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoure ux: I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) Early learning and child- care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support a system that is in jeopardy.

(2) Licensed, not -for-profit early learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding in over three years, while the cost of living has continued to increase annually.

(3) High-quality licensed child care has a lasting, positive impact on children's development, is a fundamental need for Manitoba families and contributes to a strong economy.

(4) The financial viability of these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibility of achieving a balan ced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1979

(5) The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators has continued to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately remunerated.

(6) Accessi ble, affordable and quality early learning and child- care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to in - crease funding for license d, not-for-profit child-care programs in recognition of the importance of early learning and child care in Manitoba, which will also improve quality and stability in the workforce. This petition is signed by Anna Sipinski, Brenda Carson and William Blackburn. Thank you, Madam Speaker. GRIEVANCES Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I rise on a grievance and specifically that here we are with two weeks to go and we have not had very much in the way of Estimates. I look at the Order Paper today and it says there's still 93 hours and 13 minutes left of Estimates. It is extraordinary that we are this late in the day, in the session and this government has not brought forward the Estimates except for one time. The fact is that it is the governme nt's respon - sibility and that is very clear.

There may be delays by some in the opposition and the NDP but perhaps – let's get down to the basic fact of the matter is that the government is the government, and the govern - ment has the responsibility to work a nd bring in the Estimates. This is an extraordinary lack of accountability. This is a fundamental problem that we are now so many days after the budget being presented, after the budget being debated and we have just had one day of Estimates. This is–let us look, Madam Speaker, at the fact that Estimates are of vital importance. They are important to review spending in detail.

They are important to ask questions about the programs and the funding throughout the government. We are waiting to ask these questions in many, many different areas. There are certainly lots of things which are questionable which we need to be asking questions about on behalf of people throughout Manitoba. Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Since the Estimates are a part of the budget, then what this shows is the Pallister government has no interest and no intent to fully pass the budget before we recess, expected in early June. * (15:10) The budget, if there is an election, say, in June, or July, or August, or even, S eptember, what will happen is that the budget will have to be reintroduced. We asked, on this side, is this because the government believes it has not cut enough in this recent budget that it wants to bring in a budget later this year with lots more cuts?

Will the new budget have new cuts that the Pallister government didn't want to bring in before an election? They are avoiding accountability, and they are doing it in many different ways. Last year, we note that the government deviated very far from its original budget and, indeed, in health care cut $240 million more than they announced and put forward in their original budget.

So there is already a lack of trust in this government, a lack of trust that what it puts down in paper and its budget is actually real, and that is why it is so important that we have Estimates; these are really a fundamental and very important part of the review of the government. A number of years ago, we cut down the number of hours; I think it was about 250 hours to 100 hours. But it was never expected that there would be a government that wouldn't bring in Estimates for that 100 hours, but would try and escape accountability by not bringing in the Estimates.

We all know that there are places where govern - ment could spend wiser. Just yesterday, I was talking about the air ambulance program. Becau se this air ambulance program has been poorly overseen by this government, the net result is that there have been a lot of additional expenditures. Much has gone to corporations and companies in the private sector because they have not adequately made sure that the public air ambulance Lifeflight service was properly funded and was properly supported.

Indeed, as I brought up yesterday, the uncer - tainty that this government has created, month after month, after month, after month in the delay, in the announcement, hopefully, that they will keep the

1980 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 public Lifeflight Air Ambulance service. These delays have created enormous amount of uncertainty, uncertainty such that some pilots left and we had to hire new pilots; was uncertainty among doctors, uncertainty among nurses, and as I pointed out yesterday, uncertainty among aircraft maintenance engineers. And my understanding is that the government has paid so little attention that this uncertainty among aircraft maintenance engineers could become a very seriou s issue if they do not act quickly.

This could be a big problem, and that is why the govern- ment should very soon announce that they will restore stability to the Lifeflight Air Ambulance service and make sure that it will stay as a publicly owned and operated service. The–we know that the meth epidemic is going on and the extraordinary delays by this government in addressing the meth epidemic are actually costing the health of Manitobans and the budget dollars to an extraordinary extent.

It was shown and pointed out, as I have pointed out before, but it was pointed out again that the incidence of syphilis has gone up dramatically, and other sexually transmitted infectious diseases. These are extra costs. There are extra costs related to in -hospital care, the extra costs related to having to put in place new security procedures and new security personnel in our hospitals because the violent incidents in our hospitals and in our emergency rooms in our hospitals have gone up dramatically.

So there are l ots of places where just some improvement in management could have reduced costs in health care, not just related to the meth epidemic but approaches to decrease the incidence of diabetes and to improve treatment. When I was in Opaskwayak Cree Nation, as an example, last year and again this year, what they were able to do is to bring in a program called anuka [phonetic] program, which shows dramatically improved success in helping people with diabetes, dramatically reduced the number of air flights for pati ents, saved –in a matter of months–more than a half million dollars.

And instead of picking up the opportunity and instead of saving dollars in this fashion and improving the health of people at the same time, this government has done a lot of cutbacks in areas where they should not have cut back. And this is, time and time again, a problem with this government is that they are poor managers of expenditures. Today I raised concerns about the knee and hip replacement surgery. Rhonda Grist, who has been through the hip replacement surgery, noted that the waiting times, the long waiting times are a false economy because they end up with extra sickness and extra costs.

This government needs to learn: we need to have Estimates, Mr. Speaker. We should be doing Estimates today instead of debating a bill which was brought in at the very last minute to target one individual corporation. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Any further grievances? The honourable member for Fort Garry - Riverview, on a grievance. An Honourable Member: A point of order. Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: Sorry, the honourable member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher), on a point of order? Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I listened to the member's statement very carefully, and I was really disappointed to see and hear the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) heckle him at the beginning and not pay attention at all throughout the entire presentation–[interjection]–and he heckles again. And, you know–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Fletcher: –it's not conducive. If anything, he should be taking notes on what this member is saying and smarten up. Thank you. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: On that point of order, it's not a point of –on that point of order, the member from Assiniboia does ha ve a point of order. We should have–respectful when it comes to anybody speaking in here, like having some kind of decorum and respect on the other person's grievance. * * * Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview, on a grievance. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): I rise today on a grievance related to the very real possibility that the Premier of Manitoba (Mr. Pallister) will call a snap election possibly as early as this summer.

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1981 Let me be clear: a snap election call is in violation and contravention of Manitoba's election law which fixes the date for a general election. Should the Premier (Mr. Pallister) call a snap election, he will not merely be snubbing his nose at the law, he will be breaking it. It will be a n illegal election.

The Premier's declared intention to call an illegal election not only has serious implications for the rule of law in Manitoba, but will also draw the Lieutenant Governor in Manitoba into a serious political and legal circumstance that will severely compromise the honour of the Crown and may well prompt a constitutional crisis in this province. * (15:20) Every member of this House needs to understand that the Premier of Manitoba does not have the ability to dissolve this parliament fo r the purpose of calling a general election.

That responsibility, that prerogative, that duty, that right belongs to the Crown, in this take –in this case, the Lieutenant Governor of Manitoba. What the Premier can do is advise the Lieutenant Governor that he wants to call a snap election but the 'dission' –decision to dissolve this House resides entirely, squarely and completely with the Crown. In considering the Premier's request, the Lieutenant Governor must consider a few things: first and foremost, she must consider if disillusion accords with the fixed election date, as set out in Manitoba's election law. Stating the obvious, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, it clearly does not. The next election is set, by law, for October 6th, 2020, almost 17 months from now and a mere three years in change into the government's mandate. The election law was amended in 2008 to put an end to what the current premier is trying to do: manipulate the electoral process for partisan reasons in order to gain a political advantage to s ecure the government's hold on power. We know why the Premier wants to go sooner rather than later: things are only going to get worse in Manitoba under the government's austerity agenda.

And the impact of his budget cuts are going to be more obvious as ev ery day goes by. Since the election law was amended to include a fixed election date, both the 2011 and 2016 elections were held on the prescribed dates as set out in Manitoba's election law. The Premier himself committed to respecting the fixed election date in the last election, yet now appears intent on breaking both the law and his word.

In the event that the Premier's request to dissolve the House does not fall within the fixed election date period, the Lieutenant Governor may also consider whether or not the government has lost a vote of confidence or a vote of supply in the House. That has obviously not happened. And with a massive majority, the Pallister government is in no danger of losing a vote of any kind, either now or in the next 17 months before the fixed election date. The point is, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that the conditions in law under which the Lieutenant Governor can dissolve the House to make way for a general election do not currently exist in Manitoba, period–full stop. No other reason, given by the Premier–whether it's Manitoba's 150th birthday, or he has a dentist's appointment, or he has travel plans to go to Costa Rica –count. The Government House Leader (Mr. Goertzen) has also occasionally tried to argue that this House is dysfuncti onal, even though he and the Premier are in absolute and full control of the legislative agenda.

If the House is dysfunctional then the House leader and the Premier have no one to blame but themselves. At any rate, it's the government's austerity agenda that is dysfunctional, not the legislative process. Indeed, it's pretty much business -as-usual here in the House. In fact, it's even better than business-as-usual. It's only May and already the budget has passed through this House. The 'budgen'– the budget implementation bill has passed through this House and just two weeks ago this House voted to send about a dozen bills to Standing Committee for public hearings which began last week.

This House isn't dysfunctional in the parliamentary sense of the term –though we think the government's agenda is dysfunctional –in fact, it's operating like a reasonably well-oiled machine. The result of all this, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is that there are absolutely no conditions by law, or by convention under which the Lieutenant Governor can grant the Premier's request to dissolve the House.

In fact, if the Premier does visit the Lieutenant Governor in advance of the fixed election date, he will be inviting her, at best, to ignore the law and at worst–worst, and much worse–inviting her to aid and abet the Premier in breaking the law. It's one thing for the Premier to break the election law, but it is much worse when he makes the Lieutenant Governor complicit in his law-breaking.

1982 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 No one on this side of the House is surprised by the–that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) would try to get away with this kind of chicanery. It's quite obvious that he believes that laws only apply to him when he says so. Likewise, this is a premier who, since the election three years ago has sought to erode democracy at every turn. Campaigns are shorter; voting will be harder; public funding has been abandoned and campaign rebates have been chopped in half.

The Premier's plan to starve democracy in Manitoba, to break the election law and to manipulate the rules of engagement are more worthy of a banana republic than a functioning democracy. What is especially egregious about all of this, Madam Speaker, is that this is a Premier who frequently gets up on the Golden Boy every day in this House and grandstands on the rule of law.

If he so cherished the rule of law as he says, then he would not be on the verge of breaking the election law in plain sight, no less, and he would also not be asking the Lieutenant Governor of Manitoba to aid and abet this front–affront to the rule of law. Unfortunately, Madam Speaker –or Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is where the issue gets a little awkward. It's no secret that the Lieutenant Governor is the wife of former Premier Filmon.

It's also no secret that just recently the Palliste r government contracted out Air Services in Manitoba at a value of $20 million over five years, to a private company whose chair of the board is former Premier Filmon. If the Lieutenant government –Governor–if the Lieutenant Governor agrees to the Premier's request absent of any reason to do so, the optics are obviously terrible and the honour of the Crown will be seriously compromised. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have faith in the Lieutenant Governor. I have faith in her to do the right thing.

I was sitting in a more comfortable chair across the way during her installation and I remember her speech very well. I was deeply impressed when she talked about the value of leadership in difficult times and her personal commitment to uphold her constitutional respon- sibilities on behalf of the Crown. It was a moving and articulate speech by a person with great integrity. So my advice to the Lieutenant Governor is this: if the Premier knocks on her door anytime in the next 17 months, don't answer it.

But, if she must let him in, then I would advise her to tell the Premier, in no uncertain terms that she will not be a party to an illegal election and that if he can't wait until October 6, 2020, then he should step aside and allow someone else who can command a majority in the House to government–govern. That's right, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The choice here is not between an election or not an election. The only choice facing the Premier of Manitoba today is to govern until the fixed election date or resign, one or the other. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, been a member of this House for eight years and I'm tired of the Premier putting a proverbial gun to the head of every MLA in this House and the people of Manitoba by threatening to call an illegal election. We are –we the people of Manitoba respect the rule of law and respect the honour of the Crown, and we fully expect our Premier to do the same. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Any further grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Cliff Cullen (Acting Gover nment House Leader): Would you call a second reading debate of Bill 32, followed by second reading of Bill 31, 22, 24 and 25?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: It has been requested by the honourable Government House Leader –Deputy Government House Leader, that it has been announced that House will now consider the second reading of bills 32 and 31 followed by resumption of second reading of debate for bills 22, 24, and 25. SECOND READINGS Bill 32–An Act concerning the Leasing of 800 Adele Avenue, Winnipeg Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): I move, second by the Minister for Sustainable Development, that Bill 32,

An Act concerning the Leasing of 800 Adele Avenue, Winnipeg, be now read a second time and be referred to the committee of this House. Motion presented. * (15:30) Mr. Fielding: I am pleased to speak to Bill 32,

an act concerning the lease at 800 Adele Ave. in Winnipeg. The objective of Bill 32 is to terminate the lease agreement between 5185603 Manitoba Ltd. and the First Nations of Southern Manitoba Child and Family Services Authority, also known as the

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1983 Southern Network, regarding the premises located at 800 Adele street in Winnipeg. The lease and its terms were never in the public interest. It was an untendered agreement for the rental of the faci lity that was never sufficient for child care. The costs were one of several red flags raised by officials. The original lease cost was over twice the Winnipeg market rate. In fact, I think that's even more.

I think it's close to three times, which clearly raises some questions of good judgment and prudent use of limited resources within the child- welfare system that the previous government should have asked instead of ignored. The facility has never been fully occupied and is now empty. The lease has was ted millions of dollars of public dollars that could have been used to care for at-risk children instead of paying for a vacant space that could not meet any government program needs according to officials.

The building is significantly limited in accom- modations, accessibility and zoning, which has limited the Southern Network's ability to mitigate the financial burden of the lease. It is not –if not terminated, it will waste millions more over the next decade for taxpayers. Given the landlord's refusal to agree to the rea- sonable termination agreement, we are taking the measure to terminate the lease agreement between 5185603 Manitoba Ltd. and the First Nations of southern Manitoba child and family authority regarding the premises located 800 Adele stree t in Winnipeg.

The termination is effective November 30th, 2019. The lease was entered into by the Southern Network in the fall of 2008, and the previous Manitoba government decided in 2015 to provide funding to the Southern Network for direct operating costs at the facility that they could no longer afford. The contract is for a lease for space that is no longer used by the authority and has not been for many years. Most of the buildings have been vacated since 2013. The space does not meet the needs of the authority or of any government entity. The premises are now completely vacant and incompatible with the government use.

The financial terms of the lease are unnecessary and crushing burden on the authority. Without this legislation, the net effect is that for another 10 years, funding will continue to be diverted from the children who actually need services instead–paying a lease–pay for a lease for an empty building. The previous government should have known this, that it was a bad deal.

It falls in the same category as the stadium shell game that the previous government played and cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars, the east -side road authority –and failed to build the roads that were promised by the NDP and numerous other boondoggles we inherited from the previous government that cost Manitobans millions of dollars and delivered no value. As we peel back the onion, we continue to find more NDP failures at taxpayers' expense.

Given the landlord's refusal to agree to a reasonable termination agreement and having exhausted all other options, we are taking this measure to terminate the lease. Additionally, the bill provides that no person has a cause of action or claim from the termination of the lease. We do not take these measures without reticence, but we can conclude that this is the only responsible course of action for taxpayers. The southern authority, a taxpayer -funded entity, should not have to continue to pay for incompatible building, empty building at twice or almost three times the market rent for–which is a bad deal.

I cannot say for certain why the previous government entered into the arrangement, as I have not been involved or present for it, but it is clear at the present day that the lease should not have been entered into at this time by the southern authority. I want to emphasize that the government on a regular basis manages lease arrangements and for the most part has no issues with those leases and fully honour the commitments of the Crown. But is–but in this instinct–instance and with this lease, legislation action is necessary to acquire for –to protect taxpayers, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

I would like to describe this as an exceptional circumstance that the government is faced with that's historically different from the normal situation of government lease relationships. I want to assure all of our government suppliers and contractors and landlords that we do not take this step lightly and this is–that use of this legislation in this way is rare but required to address particular instances. We are taking this action to protect taxpayers and get value for money. We are focused on helping kids in care and making pure dollars, making sure

1984 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 public dollars are going where they should be, for children in care. The lease of 100 Adele was the result of untendered process. And despite being for an unusual long period of time, 20 years, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the lease does not contain any provisions allowing for early termination. The southern first network–the Southern First Nations Network is left with an empty building incompatible to the necessary purposes at a cost well above Winnipeg's market rent for leases.

The Province assisted the southern authority by paying for renovations, but the building could still not be fully utilized and now sits empty. Attempts to renegotiate have not worked. There has been no willingness to have discussions about bringing an early end to the lease agreement. The government's only options to protect taxpayers at this point is to legislate the end of the situation that needs to be 'reminaided'–or to –remediated. We will act in the public interest and pass this legislation. Madam Speaker, we saw the NDP's complete disregard for Manitoba and the taxpayers when they raised the PST in 2019.

This bad l ease is not different. It is what the NDP's disregard for taxpayers that led to this situation. Our government is taking responsible steps on behalf of Manitobans to protect the tax dollars and make life more affordable by lowering tax burden. Not only are we lowering the PST in July 1st, but we are indexing the basic personal amount. We are indexing the tax brackets so that Manitobans have more at the end of the month. Our priorities are clear. We want help with all Manitobans, and while it's clear that during the NDP years, they had little regard for Manitoba taxpayers, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, our PC government will not forget about Manitobans and make life more affordable for them. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Questions Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed in the –to the minister by any member of the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions be asked by the critic or designate from another recognized opposition party; subsequent questions may be asked by each independent member, and the remaining questions asked by the opposition members; and no questions or answers shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I thank the minister, his staff, for a briefing this morning.

Has the minister received a complete analysis to guarantee that this legislation is not incompatible with all the provisions of the New West Partnership? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): We review all analyses when we make decisions upon this. We consulted with our legal department. We do as such with all legislation. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My question to the minister is this: He has said that the building was empty and not being used. How long was it empty for? Mr. Fielding: The building was never compatible; in fact, did not suit the needs of the time when the lease was entered into.

The lease, for the most part, has been vacated since 2013. Parts of that lease have never actually been utilized, so the building has been vacant for a number of years now. Mr. Swan: Strangely enough, when I asked the minister's staff this morning if they'd considered the implications of the New West Partnership, they sa id they hadn't. So would the minister like to actually answer the question in an appropriate manner, and if he doesn't know the answer, taken under notice, or does he want to put incorrect information on the record? Mr. Fielding: Well, I think the –really, this legislation's fairly stark.

Either you're a part of the problem of developing this lease, and we know the member that is raising this issue was part of the government of the day that signed on to this lease or let this lease go forward. We want to stick up for taxpayers. That's exactly what this does. We've taken a number of steps. We know that the lease was over 20 years, far above and beyond what normal leases would be spent. We also know that the lease was sole sourced. We know that this cost of square foot was almost two to three times higher. We know that the tenant authority had the responsibility for operating and maintenance costs.

So, if the member opposite wants to stand up and run on this and not support the legislation, I guess that's r eally something that he'll have to discuss with taxpayers. We're doing everything from

May 16, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1985 taxpayers to make sure they get good value for money. Mr. Gerrard: I understand that Marymound was in the building for a while and that the building was used for childr en from Marymound who were struggling. Can the minister provide a comment as to when Marymound was occupying the building? * (15:40) Mr. Fielding: Marymound was occupying the building after the 2013 date.

I can tell you globally that, first of all, the building was not ever in a situation that would support the needs that was being provided from that, and there has never been a time in–since 2013 that the building has been fully occupied. Mr. Swan: You know, I'm sorry that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) appears to be taking his lead from the Premier (Mr. Pallister). I asked the minister actually a very important question. The New West Partnership provides that an aggrieved corporation can take a government to arbitration and receive up to $5 million in compensation.

The minister has contradicted what his staff told me this morning at 9 o'clock. Would the minister like to explain that? And even better, would he apologize, take it under notice and give this House a proper answer? Mr. Fielding: Well, f irst of all, it's not surprising that the member opposite was part of a government that let this lease happen that defends this. It's not surprising at all that you're defending this. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Fielding: I know it's sens itive to you because it's a perfect example of the issues that the NDP faced because you don't understand finances. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I just wanted to – [interjection] Order. Order. Order. Order. I just want to remind everyone, when you're speaking to the Chair, if you're talking, not to the individual. Mr. Swan: Well, I am absolutely shocked that the Minister of Finance, who is responsible potentially for costing taxpayers millions of dollars, cannot answer this simple question. It is a serious question. We don't know the impact of the New West Partnership.

Instead of going to Estimates, we had to debate Bill 22, which contains a bunch of new restrictions on the province. This is a serious question, and I would like a real answer an d not just invective from this Minister of Finance. Mr. Fielding: If you want, I'll take the question under advisement and I'll get a written answer to the member.

But it's not surprising that the member opposite that was part of a government that had dis respect for taxpayers' dollars in every instance–if you look at the amount of issues that this government has to face because of the NDP government, because of their disrespect for taxpayers, this is a perfect example. What we want to do is protect taxpay ers. We don't understand why the NDP would go out in last election campaign and previous –and say that they were going to raise taxes. They were not truthful to the citizens of Manitoba. We don't think that's respectful.

We're here to stick up for taxpayers to make sure they're getting good results. This is something that we think is important. So I encourage the member, if he doesn't want to support the legislation, that is– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. Mr. Gerrard: Now, Mr. Speaker, now, Marymound, I understand, was ordered to leave the building. What was the date that Marymound was ordered to leave the building and who ordered Marymound to leave? Mr. Fielding: Marymound has left the building over the last two year s, in fact, over two years ago. I'll verify the exact date for the member.

I can tell you globally that this building has never been suitable for the needs that was in place. We know the deficiencies of this building, we know the fact that it's been never suitable for the type of needs that were originally divided for it or assessed for it. And so that has been a problem with this lease to begin with. Mr. Swan: Well, I thank the Minister of Finance, after, unfortunately, some unpleasant exchanges, to admit he doesn't know the answer and he'll take the matter in advisement. I don't know what the answer to the question is. I've asked it, of course,

1986 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2019 because we're concerned that this bill could be a problem and we want to protect the taxpayers. Could the Minis ter of Finance (Mr. Fielding) tell us the last time that this happened and the government moved to set aside an existing agreement? Mr. Fielding: I can tell you, to answer the member from the second party here, that there was one child in the building in January. To answer the previous –the member's question, legislation has been offered a number of times.

In fact, the NDP government that he was a part of, of course–and he'll know, he'll remember this quite well–offered legislation to do a whole number of things, but to cancel an agreement between the Liquor & Lotteries or liquor and the Manitoba Jockey Club. That was the budget implementation bill. As well, in 2013–and to cancel existing leases related to the taxicab –The Local Vehicles for Hire Act. So this has happened a number of occasions. Just to answer the question further, the Liberal government did similar– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. Mr.

Gerrard: The minister says that there was one child there in January. I presume there was some staff as well. I don't know what the general, overall occupancy was, but I would ask, was the –was Marymound ordered to leave the building and vacate it? Mr. Fielding: Well, I can tell you that the lease payments on a yearly basis have been $500,000. To have spent $500,000 of hard -earned taxpayer money on one or two children being at a building I would argue is not good taxpayers' advice. And just to the further point that the member for Minto (Mr.

Swan) brought up, it's not surprising that he's somehow trying to defend this lease. It's not surprising at all. So I'm not surprised that he is trying to use other legislative ways to defend a decision that's there because we know the NDP, what they do to support their past horrible track record i n terms of finances. Mr. Swan: I'm not sure why the Minister of Finance seems to be so angry today when he gets asked a question that we think is actually very important now that the government has chosen enter into a new agreement that actually puts const raints on government. But I'll leave it at that.

When the minister brought in this bill, did he – and he was told about the Jockey Club case –did he have a chance to look at Hansard and see the comments that the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler) and the Minister of Enterprise, Growth and Trade and other members of his government put on the record at the time that the previous NDP government brought in legislation to deal with the Jockey Club agreement? Mr. Fielding: I can tell you that our government i s focused on kids in care, not spending $500,000 on a lease that's not needed like the NDP government did.

No wonder their track record in CFS was so horrible, Mr. Deputy Speaker. They had the highest number of kids in care, and I'm proud to say that our government is actually reducing that. We're taking action to protects taxpayers' needs. Every cases are different. I can tell you attempts to renegotiate the lease was there, was something that was attempted. That wasn't there. We're at the point that we want to protect taxpayers. I know the member for Minto doesn't like to hear anything about taxpayers because he's got no respect for taxpayers.

It's clear from the NDP's record in terms of their approach for taxpayers where they don't respect it at all. We respect that. We want to put more money in the pockets of taxpayers. Mr. Gerrard: I want to follow up the question: Was Marymound ordered to leave the building? Mr. Fielding: I believe there was discussions with Marymound. When you have one or two children–in fact, I think there was one child that was left in January –to spend $500,000 on a lease for one child we don't think is in the best needs of the centre. There was discussions that were had from Marymound.

I think they probably would agree spending $500,000 of taxpayer money for the protection of one child is not good value for taxpayers' money. And that's what this bill is about. It's about protecting taxpayers. Mr. Swan: Well, actually, the record number of children in care is right now. And thi s minister should know –and I presume this minister does know–that based on the reporting of agencies, there are more children in care than there were when this government took power. The only thing that's happened is this government,

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-4-53b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 4th hansardpdf 53b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ac98a34c2e5ce987d6dc3693b8117fb68fa78990

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).