Manitoba Hansard — 24 July 2000 (Sitting 66, 37th Legislature, 1st Session)

37-1-66

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session -Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. L No. 66- 1:30 p.m., Monday, July 24, 2000

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY - Thirty-Seventh Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUA Y, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charles wood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C.

ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. fAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FILMON, Gary Tuxedo P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. - LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P.

McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.I'. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Ross mere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield I'.C. SELINGER, Greg, lion. St. Boniface N.D.I'.

SMITH, Joy Fort Garry I'.C. SMITH, Scott Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Eric Kirkfield Park P.C. STRUTIIERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.I'. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCIIUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.I'.

4325 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, July 24, 2000 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources Fifth Report Ms. Linda Asper (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the Fifth Report of the Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources presents the following as its Fifth Report.

An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources presents the following as its Fifth Report. Your committee met on Wednesday, July 19, 2000, at 6:30 p.m. and Thursday, July 20, 2000, at 6:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider bills referred. Your committee heard representation on bills as follows: Bill 5-The Wildlife Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia conservation de Ia faune.

Peter Kalden -Private Citizen Ken Overby -Manitoba Bison Association Mervin Farmer- Private Citizen Randy McRorie - Private Citizen Lloyd Lintott- Manitoba Wildlife Federation Graham Wyatt-Private Citizen Edwin Harms - Manitoba Elk Growers Associa tion Dunstan Browne - The Avicultural Advancement Council of Canada Dennis Saydak-Private Citizen Sheldon Willey - Private Citizen Dwain Lawless - RM of Ross burn Garry To/ton - Manitoba Farm Animal Council Jeannie Sasley- Private Citizen Tracy Bell- Private Citizen Mike Crawford- Manitoba Canary And Finch Club Yvonne Rideout - Keystone Agricultural Produ cers Written Submissions: Bill 5 - The Wildlife Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia conservation de /afaune. Audrey Stoski - Wilson River Bison Your committee has considered: Bill 5 - The Wildlife Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia conservation de Ia faune and has agreed to report the same with the following amendment: MOTION: THAT the following be added after

section 1 of the Bill: Purpose of Act 1.1 The purpose of this Act is to provide for the regulation of captive hunting of animals without affecting the division of responsibilities within the Government of Manitoba relating to the regulation of animals and activities involving animals. Ms. Asper: I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg), that the report of the Committee be received.

4326 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Public Accounts First Report Mr. Edward Helwer (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts): Mr. Speaker, I would like to present the First Report of the Committee on Public Accounts. Madam Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Public Accou nts presents the following as its Fir st Report. Your committee met on Tuesday, July 21- An Honourable Member: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Public Accounts presents the following as its First Report.

Your committee met on Friday, July 21, 2000, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider the Public Accounts Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 4 for the years ended March 31, 1997. and 1998 Public Accounts Volumes 1, 2 and 3 for the year ended March 31, 1999; Provincial Auditor's Report on the Operations of the Office of the Provincial Auditor for the years ended March 31, 1997, March 31, 1998 and March 31, 1999; Provincial Auditor's Report on the Audit of the Public Accounts for the years ended March 31, 1997, March 31, 1998 and March 31, 1999; Provincial Auditor's Report on Value for Money Audits, Autumn 1997, Spring 1998, Summer 1999 and for the period ending June 2000; and Provincial Auditor's Report on An Examination of Governance in Manitoba's Crown Corporations, June 1998.

Your committee received all information desired by any member at the meeting from the Minister of Finance and from Mr. Jon Singleton, Provincial Auditor. Information was provided with respect to the receipts, expenditures and other matters pertaining to the business of the Province. Your committee finds that the receipts and expenditures of the monies have been carefUlly set forth and all monies properly accounted for.

Your committee has considered the Public Accounts Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 4 for the years ended March 31, 1997, and 1998; Public Accounts Volumes 1, 2 and 3 for the year ended March 31, 1999; Provincial Auditor's Report on the Operations of the Office of the Provincial Auditor for the years ended March 31, 1997, March 31, 1998 and March 31, 1999; Provincial Auditor's Report on the Audit of the Public Accounts for the years ended March 31, 1997, March 31, 1998, and March 31, 1999; and Provincial Auditor's Report on An Examination of Governance in Manitoba's Crown Corpora tions, June 1998 and has adopted the same as presented.

At that meeting, your committee unanimously adopted the following motion: THAT the Provincial Auditor's recommen dations for change to the procedures and role of the Public Accounts Committee be referred to the Rules Committee and that the Public Accounts Committee recommend that a meeting of the Public Accounts Committee be convened to discuss the Provincial Auditor's recommen dations and make comment on them prior to the Rules Committee dealing with the Provincial Auditor recommendations. Mr. Helwer: I move, seconded by the Member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck), that the report of the Committee be received.

Motion agreed to. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bi11 201- The Electoral Divisions Amendment Ad Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Arthur Virden (Mr. Maguire), that leave be given to introduce Bill 20 1, The Electoral Divisions Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les circonscriptions electorales), and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Helwer: The main intent of this biii is to change the name of my constituency to better - -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4327 reflect the make-up of my constituency. The name would be changed from Gimli to Gimli-St. Andrews because the Rural Municipality of St. Andrews is the largest municipality in my constituency and it better reflects the make-up of my constituency. I have been presented with a petition from the residents from the Municipality of St. Andrews plus I have letters of support from all the municipalities and towns in my constituency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Motion agreed to. * (13: 35) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Labour Relations Act Amendments-Consultations Mr.

Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, in a letter dated June 21 , 2000, the Manitoba Labour Management Review Committee expressed some concerns in regard to some of the proposals that were put for them, and I quote: Management expressed a general caution that there may be a potential risk to the provincial economy if the traditional dispute resolution process under the law based on strike lockout provisions is altered. My question to the Minister of Labour is why proceed with Bill 44 when she was given this kind of advice already on the 21s t of June. Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr.

Speaker, Bill 44, we believe, is a balanced response to good labour relations in the province of Manitoba. It will have the impact of making labour relations stronger in the province of Manitoba, and strong labour relations are a positive thing for the economy, the workers and all of the citizens of Manitoba. Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Labour: Which specific business in Manitoba spoke to the Minister and said to her personally that they need a bill such as Bill 44 before they will invest further in Manitoba? Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, of the proposals that went before the Labour Management Review Committee, seven of the proposals had full or partial consensus, and those consensus positions are reflected in Bill 44. In 19 96, when the Labour Management Review Committee made a report to the Government before Bill 26 was introduced, Bill 26 did not reflect a single matter of consensus that the Labour Management Review Committee brought forward . So I would suggest to the Honourable Member that he do some of his own research before he makes statements in the House. Mr. Schuler: Mr.

Speaker, once again this minister does not answer questions in this House. My question to the same minister is: Which specific business outside of Manitoba personally spoke to the Minister and said we need a bill such as Bill 44 before we will transfer to Manitoba, before we will invest in Manitoba? Which specific business? Would she please give us an answer in this House? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has the lowest unemployment rate in the country. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms.

Barrett: The last time in the province of Manitoba there was this low an unemployment figure was in August of 19 76, when I would like to remind all honourable members and all Manitobans that it was then an NDP government in the province of Manitoba as well. We have a very strong economy- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. May I take this oppor tunity to remind all honourable members, Beauchesne's Citation 16 8: "When rising to preserve order or to give a ruling the Speaker must always be heard in silence." I would ask the co-operation of all honourable members. Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, we believe that Bill 44 will provide a streng thening of the labour relations system in this province. That is only a positive for businesses to come to Manitoba, to stay in Manitoba. We do not need 635 000 days lost to extended labour dispu tes the way we had in the 19 90s under the former government.

4328 LEGISL ATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Union Dues Political Contributions Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, this government is bent on taking away the democratic rights of workers. In Bill 44, the Minister of Labour has decided to strip workers of their right to vote in a secret ballot. She is also taking away union members' right to choose whether or not they want their union dues to be used for political purposes or donated to charity.

Can the Minister of Labour explain to the hardwork ing people of Manitoba why she decided to strip them of their democratic rights to have a say in how their union dues are spent? Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, as I stated in the House several times last week-members could peruse Hansard; they would find the answer to this question, which was asked last week as well-that Bill 4, changes to The Elections Finances Act, will ban union and corporate donations from elections in Manitoba. The change in that

section of Bill 44 simply reflects the change that will take place in Manitoba when Bill 4 is passed. * (13: 40) Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, this minister refuses to answer the question, and she does not understand the facts. My question to the Minister is: Does she not realize that

section 76, the

section of this bill she is repealing, also applies to federal elections, to municipal elections and to advertising placed in between an election period? Does she not understand that at all? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, yet again I would like to state that the Labour Management Review Committee reached unanimous consen sus, if I can use the phrase "unanimous consensus." Both management and labour agreed that this

section of the current bill was unnecessary. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, if this government is so bent on taking away the democratic right of workers, why did she not explain in any of their election material that she had a plan, once they were in power, that she was going to strip them, strip workers of their rights to choose where their union dues would be spent? Why did she not explain that in her election campaign? Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, again, both the labour side and the manag�!ment side of the LMRC agreed that, in light of the changes to The Elections Finances Act, this was an unneces sary and redundant feature of The Labour Relations Act. I might also remind honourable members that, the election campaign of 19 95, members opposite said they would not sell the Telephone System, and what did they do after that? They sold the Telephone System . Labour Relations Act Amendments-Economic Impact Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, over the weekend the Minister of Labour put forward her defence of Bill 44.

The Minister claims her legislation contains three principles. However, the only principles to be found in Bill 44 are the loss of workers' democratic rights, the end of good-faith collective bargaining and an attack on business. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister advise Manitobans how legislation based on fewer rights for workers will expand and strengthen our economy? Hon. Becky Barrett (MinisteJr of Labour): Mr. Speaker, in one

section only of the legislation that deals with the ability of workers, if almost two-thirds of them, 65 percent, sign cards saying they wish to belong to a union, in that case they would have an automatic certification. We are merely returning to what the fi)rmer government had in legislation. I would like to remind honourable members that that 65% threshold is higher than any of the other jurisdictions, of which there are many in the country, that have automatic certification, and we are merely reflecting what has been past practice since 19 47 of some form of automatic certification. Mr. Tweed: Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister advise Manitobans how legislation based on the end of good-faith collective bargaining and an - -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4329 attack on business wiii expand and strengthen our economy? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, we believe that Bill 44, which reflects Labour Management Review Committee consensus on portions or all of seven of the questions that went to the Labour Management Review Committee, wiii strengthen the labour relations climate. We believe that it will strengthen free collective bargaining, and we believe that it will make Manitoba a better place for business and workers to work together. Mr. Tweed: Mr.

Speaker, can the Minister tell this House which rights of Manitobans this government intends to remove next now that NDP clearly stands for no democratic principles? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (1 3:45) Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House need take absolutely no suggestions or comments from the opposition on democracy. Three cases in point: the Interlake in 19 95, the Interla ke in 19 99, and the fact that only one candidate put his name forward as the Leader of that party . We do not need to take any lessons in democracy from that party .

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would ask the co operation of all honourab le members. Labour Relations Act Amendments-Economic Impact Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, clearly the NDP Government is looking in the rearv iew mirror, and we are back to the Howard Pawley days of doing business here in Manitoba. First, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) makes us the highest taxed jurisdiction in Canada, and now the Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett) is making Manitoba the least attractive place to do business. Mr.

Speaker, in view of the Labour Management Review Committee identifying Biii 44 as a risk to the provincial economy, why does this NDP Government and this minister continue to force this anti-worker and anti-business legislation? Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, seven-! wiii repeat again-seven of the positions of the areas that were asked to be looked at by the Labour Management Review Committee came back from the Labour Management Review Committee with partial or complete consensus.

Those consensus positions are reflected in Biii 44, something that did not happen under the former government's biii in 19 96. Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that we are looking back. We are returning back to labour legislation that was under not only Mr. Pawley and Mr. Schreyer, but was also under Mr. Campbell, Mr. Roblin, Mr. Lyon and the former government of the current Member for Tuxedo (Mr. Filmon). Almost 50 years of labour relations legislation is being returned, labour relations elements that wiii provide balance in this province. Mrs. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, why is it this minister continues to talk about partial consensus when clearly the Labour Management Review Committee identified Biii 44 as a risk to the provincial economy? Why does this Labour Minister continue to claim that her Bill 44 would make Manitoba more attractive for business when clearly nobody wants it? Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, the reason I keep referring to the fact that there was partial or complete consensus on seven of the areas is that that shows to us as government, it shows to Manitobans and it should show to the Opposition that there was a recognition on the part of the Labour Management Review Committee, which did a great deal of very good work and provided some very solid recommendations to govern ment, many of which found their place in Biii 44. That degree of consensus was listened to by this government, unlike the former government, in 19 96, when it brought in Biii 26, where the

4330 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 former government did not listen at all to the Labour Management Review Committee recom mendations, where there was some consensus as well. * (13 :50) Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. How many more current and future potential jobs is this Premier prepared to let this Minister of Labour risk in her bid to appease the union bosses and make herself the most likely candidate to replace this present Premier? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, on all economic indices, Manitoba is doing very well.

On many of them, we are well ahead of the national average. We are well ahead of where the former government had us during most of the 19 90s, and we are well ahead of the whole country when it comes to the unemployment rate . We feel very proud, very confident in the basics of our economy, and we expect that good economic growth to take place and to be increased in this province under this government over the next years. Labour Relations Act Amendments-Justification Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the Minister's answer to the last question really begs the next question.

If we are doing so well in Manitoba, we have been prospering over the last number of years as we came out of the recession We have had a climate that has been so attractive to business growth, to job creation, to new investment in our province. Could the Minister just give us some specifics, some facts as to why she would want to change that climate that has led to such prosperity? Manitobans just would like to know what has happened in the last few months to warrant change in labour relations law that has been working so well and created such a good climate in our province. Hon.

Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, the Labour Management Review Committee, which is made up of representa tives from labour movement and also representatives from the business community, as selected by the business community, recognized that there was need for change, there was need for recognition as we go forward that we need to have changes in The Labour Relations Act, and they agreed with seven out of the proposals to one degree or completely needed to be put into place.

I would also suggest that the fact that we lost 635 000-plus days, worker days, productive days, to extended strikes and lockouts in the decade of the 19 90s says that is a good reason to take a look at labour legislation. Every one of those person days lost to a strike or lockout is a person day of productivity lost to workers, lost to the businesses and lost to the people of Manitoba. Mr. Praznik: Mr.

Speaker, I want to ask the Minister, given her last comments, then what is the logic of bringing in a provision that orders a binding arbitra tion but does not apply equally to employers and employees, that provides a veto to one side over the other? If she is so concerned about stopping days lost to strike or lockout, why then would she not make her binding arbitra tion for settlement after 60 days binding if the employer requested it? Why then would there have to be a vote of the employees to veto it? Why is it not balanced? Ms.

Barrett: I appreciate the change of heart on the road to Damascus that has been evinced by the Member for Lac du Bonnet who is obviously now in support of the provision of alternate dispute resolution in the piece of legislation. I thank him very much for that support. Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, the fact that the Minister did not answer the first question, the fact that the Minister totally evades the second question about balance comes to one conclusion. She does not know what she is talking about. My question to the Minister- Mr. Speaker: Order. Point of Order Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): The question, Mr. Speaker, is a supplemen tary . Speeches are not allowed on supplem entary questions, of course. I draw attention to Beauchesne's Citations 409, 410 . It -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 433 1 is well known. The member was going on and on. He should put a question and put it succinctly. Would you please ask him to put his question without a

preamble, a post-amble, a mid-amble? Mr. Speaker: The Member for Lac du Bonnet, on the same point of order. * (13 :55) Mr. Praznik: Yes. I would be delighted to be succinct if only this minister would answer the question. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the Honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Citation 409(2) advises that a supplem entary question should not require a prea mble. *** Mr. Speaker: I would ask the Honoura ble Member for Lac du Bonnet to please put his question. Mr. Praznik: Mr.

Speaker, I would ask the Minister then to confirm that the reality behind this legislation is she is simply answering the quest of Mr. Bernie Christophe and a host of other labour leaders in this province who wanted changes in this act to be to their convenience to make their job easier and, quite frankly, to give them more tools to do their job because they really do not want to do it under free collective bargaining. Will she just confirm that that is where these amendments come from? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, no, I will not confirm those comments.

I am surpr ised-well, I guess I am not surprised at the Member for raising the question in that context. We expect the Bill, the results of Bill 44, when it is part of The Labour Relations Act, will strengthen free collective bargaining, will strengthen the economy of Manitoba, will provide for a better labour relations climate in the province of Manitoba. Sturgeon Creek Fish Stock Die-Off Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Conservation.

There have recently been significant problems along Sturgeon Creek in Winnipeg with a major fish kill and reports of dead and dying suckers, sticklebacks, fathead minnows, and reports that the smell from the water was terr ible. I understand that the Minister's depart ment has investigated, and I would ask the Minister to provide details of the cause of the die-off and what action he has taken to investigate and to prevent such die-offs in the future. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for his question.

In fact, he is right in posing the question in the way that he has. So far, however, with the limited amount of information that I have on this issue-I was informed of it this morning. I heard about it on the radio this morning, and I inquired about it as soon as I got into my office this morning. As we speak now, information is being gathered, after which I will be able to make a more definitive statement. E. Coli Contamination Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My supplemen tary to the Minister: Could the Minister of Conservation also provide details of the source of the E. coli contamination of Sturgeon Creek and what action he has taken to address this serious pollution issue? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): Mr. Speaker, yes, I understand that the need to determine that issue, that question, is part of our investigation. As soon as I get the information, of course I will advise the Member. Mr.

Gerrard: My second supplementary to the Minister: I ask why the Minister took two weeks to alert the public of the E. coli contamination when citizens, including children, were at risk along the creek and he should have made people aware of this immediately.

4332 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. An Honourable Member: That is a stupid question. * (14: 00) Mr. Speaker: Order. The Honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): I wonder if we might be able to confirm whether the Minister of Health really means that when he says: "That is a stupid question. " We are sure that is what we just heard him say from his seat. The Honourable Member for River Hei ghts deserves an answer to this question.

This is our Minister of Health who is saying that it is a stupid question when we were talking about E. coli. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Minister of Health, on the same point of order. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I do not think the Member has a point of order, but on the same point, I think leaving the impression somehow that a two-week announcement about E. coli was present in all kinds of waterways leaves the wrong impression.

I do not think it is appropriate for the Member to raise a question of that kind with respect to raising the particular expectation in that regard and can clearly find out that information without ra ising it in that fashion. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Honourable Of ficial Opposition House Leader, I did not hear the comment, so I will have to take the matter under advisement to peruse Hansa rd and to consult with the procedural authorities, and I will bring a ruling back to the House. * * * Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Speaker, in response to the Member's question, you know, ever since the incident happened in Walkerton, Ontario, there has been a greater awareness raised in the minds of the general public to the point that today we receive several calls, several letters come in alerting us of different situations. We follow up on those leads that come in; we go out there and we sample water. On some occasions we have asked people to boil water, and in some cases we have shut down water supplies to make sure that we have taken all the necess ary precautions to ensure the safety of the public.

So, in this case, we are following the same procedure. We are taking samplings, and as soon as that data becomes available, of course it is my duty to advise the Assembly as to what is happening. Canada- Manitoba Adjustment Program Funding Mr. Scott Smith (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, a number of producers have been asking questions in regard to the status of the Canada-Manitoba Adjustment Progr am. My question is to the Minister of Agricul ture. Could she answer: Are there any more dollars available in the CMAP program, and if so, when could producers expect to see some dollars from this program? Hon.

Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I thank my collea gue for that question because it is an issue that is on producers' minds. In February we announced the CMAP program with a hundred million dollars that would be paid to producers to help of fset their transpor tation costs. The initial payments started out in April of this year and were set at 6.5 percent of each producer's eligible sales. The application deadline is June 30, and producers have until August 11 to appeal any of their applications.

Final payments, we expect, will be made by the end of August with a little over $22 million still in the: fund to be paid out to producers. Labour Relations Act Amendments-Picket Lin1e Violence Mr. Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, hidden within Bill 44 is a clause forcing employers to reinstate employees who during a strike committed a violent or criminal act. This has the potential of enc:ouraging picket line violence, all from a government who claim public safety as a priority. I would ask the -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4333 Premier (Mr. Doer), who failed to mention this legislation in the Throne Speech, who failed to mention this in his speech to the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and who failed to mention this at the Century Summit: Can he advise Manitobans how forcing employers to reins tate employees who during strike action participate in illegal acts will enhance public safety? Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr.

Speaker, since 19 72 in the province of Manitoba there has been recourse for workers who have been on the picket line, workers or employers, to be reins tated after actions that would perhaps be a misdemeanour. Since 19 76 until 19 96, with Bill 26, there has been a provision for 20 years that the Labour Board has the authority to review all those issues of rein statement. We are putting that back, a provision that was in the legislation from 19 76 to 19 96.

We are also not, of course, for a moment suggesting that criminal activities should be condoned, and there is still recourse to the courts if that is deemed necessary. We have the full confidence of the Labour Board in the province of Manitoba. Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier (Mr.

Doer), who did not mention this in the Throne Speech or anywhere else and who seems to be reluctant to talk about this in the House, how does he recon cile the forcing of employers to reins tate employees who commit acts of violence during a strike with their Throne Speech commitment of working with citizens to create safer workplaces? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, as I answered the previous question, this is putting back in place a provisiOn that was in place from 19 - [interjection] It is putting back exactly the same language that was in place for 20 years, from 19 76 to 19 96.

Again, I would suggest it is the height of a word that I cannot use for fear of being called unparliamentary. For the members opposite to talk about democracy in this context, 19 95 Interlake, 19 99 Interlake. Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I would again ask the Premier, who did not place this in the Throne Speech when he drafted that, who did not mention this at the Century Summit, who does not mention this in his speeches: Does the Prem ier not recognize that amending

section 12 (2) of The Labour Relations Act does nothing but encourage instances of picket line violence? Ms. Barrett: That is fearmongering of the worst order and ought not to be a part of this legislative debate and discussion. We are simply putting back into place a provision, word-for word, that was in The Labour Relations Act from 19 76 until 19 96. Is the Member suggesting that the Labour Board does not have the ability or the competence to make a decision in this regard? Is the Member suggesting that the criminal courts of Canada are no longer going to be part of it?

Is the Member sugges ting that the Government of Sterling Lyon and the former government of the Member for Tuxedo (Mr. Filmon), from 19 88 to 19 96, did not have the right idea? I think not, Mr. Speaker. Labour Relations Act Amendments-Justification Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier to stand up and take some leadership, because I know he is very sensitive. He is getting a lot of calls from people, people who are part of our Manitoba business community that he was not truthful to during the election campaign or since.

Many people are calling him and asking him to reth ink this wrong-headed decision about the direction that they are going with their labour laws. I would like to ask the Premier today to justify the legislation that was brought in by his Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh) that says that law-abiding citizens will be sent to jail if they do not pick up their mail. On the other hand, he has a Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett) who is saying we will tolerate violence on the picket lines, and we will force employers to rein state those individuals into their workplace.

How can he justify the two differing opinions by his ministers? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, one is reminded again of the former Minister of Labour's comments in 19 96 where he said, as Minister of Labour: We have one of the fairest labour laws in all of Canada.

4334 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 I think the acting Leader of the Opposition may want to talk to her former Labour Minister, because these laws, on two out of the three occasions of the members opposite talking about matters similar to this being referred to the Labour Board and the 65 percent, those are the issues the Member opposite called. I apologize. That was 19 94. The legislation was changed in 19 96. Mr. Speaker, he also went on to say that business in Manitoba is not concerned with The Labour Relations Act. It is concerned about taxes which are going down under this govern ment.

They are concerned about the- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:10 ) Point of Order Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, if the Premier is going to quote me, I hope that he would do so accura tely. I would just remind him, in the interests of accuracy, that as Minister of Labour I brought in changes to first contract that took away the unbalanced approach that his Minister of Labour has now introduced, where the trigger mechanism for the settlement gives a veto to employees. In 19 92-93, we removed that from labour legislation.

His government that we assume he is respons ible for is now bringing it back in, and yet he of fers no explanation why the inconsis tency. I would hope he would quote everything I have said over the years, not so selectively. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the Honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. * * * Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying, in two out of the three areas that have been raised by members opposite today, and I think I accura tely quoted that, the former Minister of Labour was basically classifying these laws that are now being rein stated as, quote: We have among the most fair government laws in labour legislation in all of Canada. So we have a two-thirds agreement from the former Minister of Labour, and I would acknowledge there is one-third disagreement with the Member in terms of the provision that he has raised in his question. Mr.

Speaker, the second issue is the members opposite, I would w�mt to say that [interjectionj All the provisions of the Criminal Code remain in place. One section, which of course makes it against the Criminal Code for any violent beha viour in our society, those clauses and provisions are absolutely there. Thirdly, the one area that the business com munity that I have met with- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: One of the areas that does have cred ibility with the business community is the chair of the Labour Board, who has remained in place through two administra tions.

All of the issues that are being raised in this House are adjudicated, not by the Minister of Labour, but by the chair of the Labour Board, an individual the business community trusts, the labour community trusts, we on this side trust, and I certainly think it is important to note that. Mr. Speaker, when members opposite raise broken promises, members opposite were the ones, in 19 95, who promised not to sell the Manitoba Telephone System and then proceeded to hire brokers to break that promise three months later. We do not practitse that lack of ethics in this government. Amendments-Picket Lim� Violence Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Obviously, the phone calls that the Premier is getting from business leaders in this province, and the letters and the comments that are being provided, the articles in the newspapers, must be getting under the Premier's skin when he has to go back and be -

July 24, 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 4335 critical of our government and not take respon sibility for the actions of his government. He has managed this first session under his mandate misera bly. We have seen legislation that has been introduced into this House and has had to have 1 0 or 11 amendments before it even passes second reading. We have seen the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lath lin) act abso lutely in a disastrous fashion when it comes to Bill 5. Time and time again, we have seen this government- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr.

Speaker, we have seen extensive mismanagement of the legislative agenda in this House. I would like- Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): I am hearing chirping from the other side of the House about where is the question, where is the question? Mr. Speaker, we have had a long-standing rule here that allows our leaders to have a little bit of latitude in posing their questions. We have been allowing the First Minister (Mr. Doer) plenty of latitude when he has been answering his questions, when he is not even referring to the question.

If the members across the way would just give our Leader the opportunity, she would pose the question. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Since the matter is now on the floor of the House, I mean, we were wondering if the acting Interim Opposition Leader came in here with a question, wonder when her 40 minutes was up, going on and on, here and there, and there was no question. We were wondering if you could perhaps give the House some guidance.

You know, is there not some rule that requires her, after some reasonable period of time, to put a question? Because we certainly are prepared to entertain one, if she had one. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Interim Leader of the Official Opposition, with new infor mation, on the same point of order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, I think if you perused Hansa rd, you would find that my questioning of the First Minister was no longer than his diatribe talking about the former government, rather than answering the question before. Certainly, Mr.

Speaker, I should have the same latitude to ask my question as the rhetoric that he puts on the record in his answers. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Honourable Official Opposition House Leader, Manitoba practice has been to allow leaders of an official party the latitude, and I will follow that same practice, unless I am given directions by both House leaders. *** Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask the Premier, with these changes in the labour legislation, after someone has been convicted of violence on the picket line and serves their jail term, will this legislation force employers to take that person back? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): In the prea mble, and in the 17 or 18 questions that were contained within the kind of statement, there were a number of questions raised. The Member opposite raises the issues of amending some legislation. I actually believe the public hearings and the great value of the Manitoba Legislature is where you do listen to the public.

I am hoping that, instead of our members reading newspapers as government members and not paying any attention to the public when they are speaking out and expressing their views in the legislative committee, or a Speaker cutting back and disallowing anybody to vote on a bill, I am hoping we will listen to Manitobans.

4336 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that when we go to committee we go there to listen. We go there to improve bills. We go there to reflect the views of Manitobans, whether it is this bill or any other bill. I want to make that very, very clear to the members opposite. When we improve legislation in Manitoba and when we listen to Manitobans and listen to them on their views, that is the way in which this government will pra ctise. Mr. Speaker: Order. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, our Fir st Minister has stated how important the committees are to this Legislature and how important it is that the community be heard. If this Premier really feels that str ongly, why does he not wait till fall bef ore we have these legislative bills come to this community, so that the community can be here, when they are not on holidays, so they can actually be heard at the community level? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. May I remind all honourable members that a point of order is a very serious matter, and I would ask the co operation of all honourable members.

The Honourable Government House Leader. on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not think there is a point of order there at all, but I remind members opposite that they were introduc ing bills last July. I remind members opposite that there are members of the public, there are organ izations that represent a variety of interests that are registered to speak and have been speaking on bills, and business is being carried on as usual. * (14:20) Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised by the Honourable Official Opposition House Leader, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. * * * Mr. Doer: I believe the members opposite just introduced a bill today, and now they are asking us to hold off all our legislation. They seem to be flipping and flopping. Mr. Speaker, we are arguably in a compressed period of time. The election was called in August of last yerur. The results to change the Government were made by the people of Manitoba in September. In October, we came into office.

It has backed up normal budgetary functions, and we are doing the best we can to keep our legislative agenda in a-I think there were under 50 bills. I recall, Mr. Speaker, one day the former First Minister, on a Friday, introduced Meech Lake and then on a Monday he withdrew it. We supported him in withdrawing it, given the notwithstanding clause in Quebec. That is not a sign that the former First Minister was wrong on Friday. It just made sense for Manitobans to have that. We will listen to Manitobans at committee. The Minister of Labour (Ms.

Barr ett) has already answered the specific question dealing with the Labour Board. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. Speaker's Ruling Mr. Speaker: I have a ruling for the House. During Oral Questions on July 11 , 2000, I took under advisement a point of order raised by the Honourab le House Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Laurendeau) who sought to know whether the Honourable Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski) had received a copy of the June 2000 Value for Money Audit of the Provincial Auditor prior to the report being tabled in the House. The Honourable Govern ment House Leader (Mr.

Mackintosh) also spoke to the same point of order. I took the matter under advisement in order to peruse the procedural authorities. - -

July 24, 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4337 In reviewing the point of order raised by the Official Opposition House Leader (Mr. Laurendeau), I note that he speculated that members of the Government caucus might have received copies of the report prior to the report being tabled in the House; however, he did not furn ish any proof or evidence that such action took place. I would also like to point out for the House that in a ruling given by Mr. Speaker Rocan on June 13, 19 91, he ruled that it was not a matter of privi lege for a minister to provide information to members of the Government caucus.

In the ruling, Mr.

Speaker Rocan quoted from Maingot's Parliamentary Privilege in Canada and stated that "a complaint that a Minister of the Crown has made a statement outside the House rather than in the House or that the government provides information only to its supporters in the House may well amount to a grievance against the government, but in the absence of an order of the House forb idding such activity, there is no personal or corporate privilege that has been breached and neither does it constitute a contempt of the House in the privilege sense." Although this ruling had been given on a matter of privilege raised in the House, I believe that the essential point of the ruling is also applicable to the current point of order raised in that there is a requirement to demonstrate that a particular rule or practice has been breached.

I would therefore rule that the Honoura ble House Lea der of the Of ficial Opposition (Mr. Laurendeau) did not have a point of order. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): With the greatest of respect, Mr. Speaker, I am going to have to challenge your ruling. I know for a fact the Member had a press release in her hand. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Voice Vote Mr. Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been challenged. All those in favour of sustai ning the ruling of the Chair, please say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr. Speaker: All those opposed, say nay.

Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it. Formal Vote Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Call in the members. The question before the House is shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained.

Division A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: Yeas Aglugub, Allan, Ashton, Asper, Barrett, Caldwell, Cerilli, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Friesen, Jennissen, Korzeniowski, Lath/in, Lemieux, Mackintosh, Maloway, Martindale, McGiff ord, Mihychuk, Nevakshonoff, Reid, Robinson, Sale, Santos, Schellenberg, Selinger, Smith (Brandon West), Struthers, Wowchuk. Nays Cummings, Dacquay, Derkach, Driedger, Dyck, Enns, Faurschou, Gerrard, Gilleshammer, Helwer. Laurendeau, Loewen, Maguire, Mitchelson, Penner (Emerson), Penner (Steinbach), Pitura, Praznik, Reimer, Schuler, Smith (Fort Garry), Tweed.

Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Yeas 30, Nays 22 Mr. Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been sustained. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Winnipeg Beach Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): It was a glorious day at Winnipeg Beach and for

4338 LEGIS LATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Winnipeg. Saturday, July 22, 2000, was warm and sunny, as were the smiles on the faces of the multitude there. This was the opening of their new theatre and boardwalk lighting. The pride was evident in the faces of those involved, and beam they should. They have resurrected the spirit of an era passed, of a boardwalk, dance hall, music, lights, and much joy on the summer night, an era I recall with nostalgia, having spent much time there in my childhood.

As Robertson Davies, narrator in The Manticore, says: I suppose, unless you are very unlucky, anywhere you spend your summers as a child is an arcad ia forever. This new boardwalk and outdoor theatre will provide generations to come with wonderful memories of summer days and nights at Winnipeg Beach. Ian Evans piped in the colour party, RCMP Constable Harris and an entourage including the town's mayor and councillors, and members of the Legislative Assembly. We walked the boardwalk to the open theatre where Laurie Hoogstraten was the gracious emcee of the event.

Councillor Ken Mirus [phonetic] presented the attending MLAs with certificates of title to their own planks on the boardwalk. The town generously and thoughtfully reserved a special

section of the boardwalk in honour of the 57 newly elected members of the first Legislature of the new millennium. Congratu lations to Mayor Reid Kelner and his councillors; Lincoln Webb of the northern Interlake Development Corporation; all the volunteers behind this millennium project, and all the townspeople; a special tribute to Valerie Moore for organ izing the whole thing. Well done. Neepawa Lily Festival Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): I rise today to put a few words on the record about the past week and weekend at the town of Neepawa where they celebrated the Lily Festival.

That festival is now in its fourth year and was the brainchild of Eleanor Nicholson and a committee that she organized around the theme of the lilies and the huge production that occurs in our area. I recently had the honour of assisting in the opening of the Gertrude Willia ms Park, which is a yard site that was donated for the purposes of a lily park right on Highway 16 as it goes through the town ofNeepawa. The festival and town now boast three large lily parks and a number of about 80 or more smaller lily beds around the town and numerous others on private property.

The insp iration flowed from a local entrepreneur by the name of Barrie Strohman, who was a lily breeder who sta1ted 20 years ago cultivating lilies as a hobby on his farm south of Neepawa. Barry became president of the international lily association, and his lily gardens became so great that he turned his hobby into one of the most successful lily production and catalogue businesses, now called The Lily Nook. The Lily Festival and the production of lilies has become the pride of the town and is now synonymous with the name of the town of Neepawa, long having been known as one of Manitoba's more beautiful towns.

In fact, having won that award on many occasions, thanks to this festival and the huge committee of volunteers who annually plan the Lily Festival, attracting about I 0 000 people on average to the town, I am sure this year will be even better when that number becomes known. With these efforts, I am sure the town will continue to be on the map as one of Manitoba's more beautiful. Fort Garry School Division Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Fort Garry School Division on the success of their international student program .

I had the pleasure of attending an opening ceremony last week at the Fort Richmond Collegiate and welcomed 41 students to Manitoba from the Kun-ei Girls High School in Osaka, Japan. The students will be visiting Manitoba for a two-week summer ESL program to enhance their English skills and learn more about our Canadian lifestyle. They will be pra ctising their English throughout Manitoba while visiting strawberry farms, a trip to the Legislative Building and a visit to Clear Lake, Manitoba. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the people who have made this -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4339 exciting program possible and successful: the home-stay families, the student language facilitators, the Fort Garry School Division student program staff. What a wonder ful opportunity this is for students to hone their language skills and learn about our life in Canada. It is the beginning of cultural under standing. To the students and teachers of the Kun-ei Girls High School, Seiko o mori masu. Good luck. Springfield Agricultural Fair Mr.

Ron Schuler (Springfield): This past weekend I had the pleasure of parti cipating in the Springfield Agricultural Fair held in Dugald, a trad ition that dates back many years in the Springfield RM. It was a beautiful day, and local residents were out in full force to enjoy the weather and the many attractions to be found at the fair. *( 15: 40) There were many activities for all ages, and my son Stefan enjoyed his many turns on the tractor ride. I then had the honour to par ticipate in the celebrity category of the Wellington boot throw.

Unfortu nately, the Reeve of Springfield, John Holland, defeated both municipal Councillor Bill Paulishyn and myself. I would like to extend congratulations and thanks to all the volunteers and community groups involved in this year's agricultural fair. From the Oakbank town beautification project, Citizens on Patrol Program , and the Springfield Youth Parliament, agricultu re is still a very important player in Springfield's and Manitoba's economies, and we should celebrate it at every opportunity.

It is a truly important task that the past be preserved by the present for the future, and the Springfield Ag Fair does just that for the future generations from Dugald, Oakbank, Anoia and beyond. I wish the Springfield Agricul tural Fair and its hardwork ing and dedicated organ izers all the best in the future, and I would welcome and invite all Manitobans to join me in attending the fair in years to come. Construction-Ecole Lavallee Ms.

Linda Asper (Riel): Monsieur le president, c'etait avec grand plaisir que je me trouvais parmi les parents et les eleves de !'Ecole Lavallee le 13 juillet 2000, pour la premiere pelletee de terre soulignant la construction d'une ecole francophone dans le sud de Saint-Vital. Au nom de notre gouvernement, j'ai offert mes meilleurs voeux. La ceremonie representait l'accomplissement de nombreuses annees d'efforts continus et de tra vail acharn e, ainsi que la realisation des espoirs et des reves de Ia communaute francophone.

La levee de Ia premiere pelletee de terre etait Ia naissance d'une magnifique ecole moderne qui accueillera les eleves francophones de Ia maternelle a Ia huitieme annee du quartier Saint Vital sud. L'Ecole Lavallee sera Ia premiere ecole entierement neuve construite pour Ia Division scolaire franco-manitobaine et elle aura, en plus, une garderi e. Cette ecole sera un etablissement d'enseignement remarquable pour de nombreuses annees grace a son enracinement profond dans la communaute. C'est cette fondation solide qui menera a Ia reussite.

Le devouement des parents et de Ia communaute qui a deja ete demontre pour la construction de cette ecole permet tra a toutes les personnes qui peuvent y contribuer de maniere positive d'exercer une influence marquan te sur !'education des eleves. Apres tout, une ecole est bien plus que !'ensemble des materiaux qui Ia composent. Une ecole se batit egalement grace a !'esprit de cooperation qui fait de l'apprentissa ge une experience vivante, une aventure stimulante et une entreprise commune. Des moments memorables attendent les eleves et leurs parents, ainsi que le personnel de !'Ecole Lavallee.

J'aimerais remercier tous ceux et celles qui ont contribue a Ia realisation de ce projet. Monsieur le president, merci. [Translation] Mr. Speaker, it was with great pleasure that I par ticipated with the parents and pupils of Ecole Lavallee on July 13, 2000, in the sod-turning

4340 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 ceremony to mark the construction of a Francophone school in south St. Vital. I brought greetings on behalf of our government. The ceremony repre sented the fulfilment of many years of continuous effort and hard work, as well as the realization of the hopes and dreams of the Francophone community. The turning of the sod marked the birth of a magnificent modem school which will receive the south St. Vital area's Francophone pupils from kindergarten to the eighth gra de.

Ecole Lavallee will be the first entirely new school built for the Division scolaire franco manitobaine. It will have a day care as well. This school will be a remarkab le educational institution for many years because it is deeply rooted in the community. It is this solid foundation that will lead to success. The dedication of the parents and of the community, which has already been demonstrated over the constructi on of this school, will enable all persons who can contribute to it in a positive way to exercise a significant influence on the education of the pupils.

After all, a school is much more than the sum of the materials of which it is composed. A school is built also thanks to the spirit of co-operation that makes learning a living experience, a stimulating adventure and a common under taking. Memorable moments await the pupils and their parents as well as the staff of Ecole Lavallee. I would like to thank all those who have contributed to the realization of this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Committee Changes Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I move, seconded by the Honourab le Member for Minnedosa (Mr.

Gilleshammer), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments for July 24, 2000, at 10 a.m., be amended as follows: St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) for Morris (Mr. Pitura). This change was moved in the Committee this morning. I am now moving it in the House to be properly reflected in the House records. Motion agreed to. Mr. Dyck: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), that the following chang(� be made to Law Amendments for Tuesday, July 25, 2000, at 6:30, be rescinded, and now shall be amended as follows: Springfield (Mr. Schuler) for Morris (Mr. Pitura).

Motion agreed to. Mr. Dyck: I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Morris (Mr. Pitura), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments for Tuesday, July 25, 2000, at 6:30 p.m., be amended as follows: Spri ngfield (Mr. Schuler) for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau). Motion agreed to. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Member for St. Vital, on a point of order. Point of Order Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, during my member's statement, I inadvertently referred to Fort Richmond Collegiate and I meant to refer to Fort Garry Collegiate.

An Honourable Member: It is Fort Richmond. Ms. Allan: Oh, I did have it right. Mr. Speaker: It is not a point of order, but I thank the Honourable Member for St. Vital for the information. ORDERS OF THE OA Y * (15 :50) Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Gov•�rnment House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you call debate on second readings, Bills 7, 14 , 16 , 31, 45. DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 7-The Protection for Persons in Care Act Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak), - -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 43 41 Bill 7, The Protection for Persons in Care Act (Loi sur Ia protection des personnes recevant des soins), standing in the name of the Honourable Member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau). Is there will of the House to leave the Bill standing in the name of the Honourable Member for St. Norbert? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Speaker: It has been denied. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill 7, The Protection for Persons in Care Act.

We are supportive of this act with some amendments which will certainly add more balance to the Act. I personally am a very strong supporter of any effort which will protect people from being abused. This act in many ways duplicates Alberta's act. In fact, the Minister's private member bill, 202, was pretty much identical to Alberta's, but now that he is presenting it as Bill 7, there have been some changes made. There have been some reword ings, but the general theme does remain.

However, Alberta's law is stro nger in terms of onus of proof about abuse, and I would like to see more of that incorporated into this particular act. This act requires a report to be made in one instance that I think will require some discussion. If somebody thinks that a person is likely to be abused, and in that particular instance I think we need to have further discussion on it. It certainly begs question and further thought because if we are going to be reporting on or repor ting somebody who we think is likely to abuse somebody, what would that be based on?

How can somebody act on somebody's personal and subjective opinion? Where are the reasonable and probable grounds in this instant? Where is the evidence and onus of proof? Certainly, if I thought my neighbour Bob was going to beat up my other neighbour Joe, the police would ask me what I was basing this on, and they would want to know if there was prev ious history and actions here; otherwise it would be very hard for them to act. In order for this par ticular act to be fair and balanced and protect everybody's rights, there also needs to be reasonable and probable grounds in this par ticular situation as well.

This act does not require criminal record checks of new employees and new volunteers,

whereas Alberta's act did. I would like to see some discussion on this and this incorporated into this particular act. Certainly, there are other areas and professions where criminal record checks are expected of employees or volunteers, particularly where there are vulnerable clients involved. For instance, at Child Find Manitoba, all of us there had to have a criminal records check. Teachers do, as well, and many, many community agencies, so I think when it comes to looking at patients, it should be no less of a requirement.

Nowhere in this act does it say that the Minister or investigator must report possible Criminal Code offences to the police, and I believe that there should be an obligation to do this just as is the case with suspicion of child abuse. In appointing an investigator to investigate the abuse charges, it does not indicate the qualifications needed by the investigator.

I think it would be much more prudent to have this defined more clearly in the Act in order to ensure fairness, bala nce and a proper understanding by the investigator as somebody who understands the nuances of health care for individuals, particula rly those with complex physical and other cognitive care implications. I think the Act needs to be balanced enough to protect also against malicious reporting. Therefore there should be a fine for doing so, and the fine should be no less than that dealt to somebody who knows of abuse and does not report it.

This is one part of this parti cular act where there does not appear to be equal balance and fairness on both sides. So definitely that needs to be discussed in more depth. It is important that there are enough checks and balances in place in any act, and I think that our amendments will propose that. I do not believe that the Minister of Health (Mr.

4342 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Chomiak) has intended that he be seen as judge and jury, so the perception of fairness has to prevail, and I think that that will beg some discussion in commit tee. The question must also be asked, Mr. Speaker, what kind of public access to information would this process have and what are the implications of that public access in protecting the privacy rights of the patient and the individuals involved during the investigation and after the fact due to files or records that are retained.

Whether it is retained within a health care facil ity or within a regulatory body or within the Department of Health or within a regional health authority, I think the whole issue of privacy and protection of patients' privacy needs further discussion. So, Mr. Speaker, we certainly look forward to discussion of this bill and these particular amendments that we would like to bring forward, which we believe will strengthen this bill and certai nly address the issue of strengthening situations for patients, so that they are not found to be in a situation where they can be or are abused. We are prepared, Mr.

Speaker, to move this bill forward to commit tee stage. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise very briefly to indicate my general support for this bill and look forward to some careful consider ation at the Committee level to make sure we have got things optimum in terms of the way things are worded. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 7, The Protection for Persons in Care Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr.

Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Bi11 14- The Provincial Railways Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: To resume debate on the amend ment to Bill 14 , The Provincial Railways Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les chemins de fer provinciaux), be not now read a second time but that it be read a second time this day six months hence. The Honourable Member fix Lakeside (Mr. Enns) has 27 minutes remaining. Is it the will of the House to leave it remain standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Lakeside? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been dr;!nied. Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr.

Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of amendment to Bill 14 , The Provincial Railways Amendment Act, be not now read a second time but that it be read a second time this day six months hence. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. Voice Vote Mr. Speaker: All those in favour, say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr. Speaker: All those opposed, say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Nays have it. An Honourable Member: On diivision, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: On division. - -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4343 *** Mr. Speaker: To resume debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Hig hways (Mr. Ashton), Bill 14 , The Provincial Railways Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les chemins de fer provinciaux). Is the Ho use ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 14 , The Provincial Railways Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. Voice Vote Mr. Speaker: All those in favour, please say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr. Speaker: All those opposed, say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it. An Honourable Member: On division. Mr. Speaker: On division. * (16: 00) Bi11 16- The City ofWinnipeg Amendment Act

(2) Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), Bill 16 , The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act (2) (Loi no 2 modifiant la

Loi sur la Ville de Winnipeg), standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacquay). Is it the will of the House to leave the Bill standing in the name of the Member for Seine River? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to put a few words on the record regarding Bill 16 , The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act (2). It is important to note that this is a continuation of work that was undertaken by the previous government, as was the amendment act that we passed in this House previously. Mr.

Speaker, as with many bills that have come before the House this session, this, while well-intentioned, certainly has a number of flaws in the drafting of the Bill and certai nly not only representatives from the City but also members on this side of the Ho use will be drawing those flaws to the attention of the Government while at commit tee. You know, to take the Premier (Mr.

Doer) at face value today with his words in this House that indeed their government is willing to listen to the people of Manitoba and willing to come to commit tee with an open mind and adjust legislation where necess ary-m ind you, I do have to admit that that has not been my experience so far in my brief tenure in this House. In particula r, I sat through a ra ther lengthy comm ittee meeting regarding Bill 20, the farm machiner y act, in which you know, the three main parties involved in the Act, the manufacturers, the agriculture, the agrarian community itself- An Honourable Member: Agrarians?

The third party. Mr. Loewen: For the benefit of some members, that would be equal to the agricultural community in this province, but at the Committee we had a number of representations, all valid, all making the point to the Minister that this legislation was very flawed. And did the Minister listen? Of course, the answer is no. The Minister just hulled ahead with a piece of flawed legislation. So I guess that is why I stand before this House today being a little cynical on what

4344 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 the Premier said in this House today, and time will tell. Certainly with regard to this act, and again, just to ref er to the previous act which was pushed through this House with the co-operation of this side of the House and with great urgency on behalf of the Government regarding the registration of orders, it is with some sadness I note today that, although we did offer the courtesy of passing that legislation with great haste through this House, to date there have been no orders registered.

So once again we have a situation where the Government really did not have a cle ar understanding of what they were trying to accom plish, in fact what would be the outcome. So I hope that is not the same with this act. What I would like to do now, Mr. Speaker, is just draw the attention of the Government to a couple of flaws in the Bill and certainly

section 44 1.1, which talks about the appeal process for somebody who has been served a demolition order, and once again, as the members opposite should be aware, these landowners sometimes are difficult to find. They know that their property is in disrepair and it is hard for the city to track them down, but it is also very onerous when they are found when they come back for an appeal. The only method for the City to deal with the appeal is through a commit tee as defined in The City of Winnipeg Act, which is a standing policy comm ittee.

That is the onerous task that is being put upon the City Council and the standing policy comm ittee with this legislation. It seems to me if the true intention of this bill is to allow the City some leeway in the handling of its affairs that certainly this House, this Legislature should have the confidence in the City to let them form their own appeal committee. I mean, these are elected officials. They take the job seriously. The comm ittee that deals with property and real estate, the property comm ittee of the City, is a very, very busy committee.

Members of the House question the make-up of that commit tee, but once again, that is up to the City voters, municipal voters to decide. In any event, it is onerous on the comm ittee, and I am sure the representatives at comm ittee from the City of Winnipeg will raise that point as well. Certainly, this government could extend them the opportunity to define their own comm ittee when it comes to he:aring appeals. It does not seem like a too unreasonable request. I think another important issue that this bill tries to address is serving orders that actually do not apply to demolition orders.

Again, just the wording in 467( 1. 2) is a little loose and could stand some adjustment, and again this will be brought out at commit tee. We are waiting, hopeful that the members of the Committee on the Government side will have the good sense to either bring in an amendment or to change the nature of this wording. Certainly, in terms of locating people to serve these orders, I appreciate: the fact that a reasonable effort has to be made, but again that will be up to the courts at some: point to decide what a reasonable effort is.

I do believe that it would not be unfair if. after attempting to serve a member through mail. through registered mail, through fax and through other normal channels, none of them being successful, that in the interest of expediency, maybe the Government would agree to allow the City to advertise in papers that there is an order outstanding that does need to be addressed.

So I just wanted to raise briefly these two issues: make the Government aware that we will be raising these issues in comm ittee, and that certainly we hope they will be open to positive suggestions, not only from the City of Winnipeg but from people on this side of the House, to open their minds to these issuc!S. Having said that, I conclude my remarks. Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdaie): Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to put a few words on the record in regard to Bill 16 , The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act (2), in regard to the legislation that was brought forth by the NDP Government here.

I have to say that this is a continuation of some of the initiatives that we started under our administration. It more or less is a reaction to the Cuff report that was tabled by the City of Winnipeg, after extensive consultation, in a -

July 24, 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 4345 sense, g!Vmg the City of Winnipeg more authority to the City to make decisions. It is an enabling type of legislation. It is the type of legislation, I think, that the City of Winnipeg was wanting, and this is one of the things that we recommended in our legislative package before it last year. I think what this is, is just a continuation of some of the things that we were wanting to implement with the City of Winnipeg. So I just wanted to put on record that I compliment the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms.

Friesen) in her quest to try to work with the City of Winnipeg, to try to work in coming to some better decision making, giving them more decision-making power, giving the ability for the City to set its own course. This is just a part of their request. I believe it is legislation that will help them to regulate the condition and the maintenance of their buildings, the process of looking after unsanitary buildings, allows the city to take immediate action in case of emergency situations, and it provides the City of Winnipeg the ability to look after unsafe and unsanitary conditions. With that, Mr.

Speaker, I just wanted to put a few words on the record in regard to that bill. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question bef ore the House is second reading of Bill 16 , The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act (2). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. * (16:10 ) Bili 31-The Electronic Commerce and Information, Consumer Protection Amendment and Manitoba Evidence Amendment Act Mr.

Speaker: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk), Bill 31, The Electronic Commerce and Information, Consumer Protection Amendment and Manitoba Evidence Amendment Act (Loi sur \e comm erce et \'information electroniques, modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia protection du consommateur et Ia

Loi sur Ia preuve au Manitoba), standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacqua y). Is it the will of the House to leave the Bill to remain standing in the name of the Hon ourable Member for Seine River? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Also standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway), who has six minutes remaining. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been denied. Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, col leagues.

Bill 31 is The Electronic Commerce and Information, Consumer Protection Amendment and Manitoba Evidence Amendment Act. It is a hodgepodge of different ideas that have been put into writing. On the other hand, it has some valuable points to it. This bill has been in the drafting stage for one or two years and generally addresses some of the concerns of electronic communication. It should have probably been left to federal legislation so that the legislation across Canada on elec tronic communication would have all been the same. However, that is not the case.

So we recommended to the Minister's office that the legislation be harmonized with all the other provinces instead of having a different set of rules for elec tronic communication in each province. Since we do interprovincial com munica tion electronical ly, the rules should have been harmonized throughout Canada and be the same in every province . However, it does address some of the concerns of transacting business electronically

4346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 through e-mail and through faxes. It is now possible to send a signed document elec tronically, and that signature on a signed document will be, in fact, in force of law as if it had been signed personally on the site. In many respects, the legislation simply endorses what already is happening. It is common practice already in businesses, and it has been in our business for some years, to send signatures electronically and consider that a legal endorsement. Unless they were contested, that was never a problem.

In our experience those signatures were never contested. We also believe that this bill will need constant review because the electronic methods of com municating are changing so quickly and the capabilities and the technology is changing so quickly, it does not seem possible, Mr. Speaker, that you can put together a bill in such a changing world that will stand the test of time. This bill will have to be reviewed constantly, and I would suggest that a review mechanism should have been put in place. The part of the Bill that was really a surprise was an insert called

section

Section 6 is called an amendment to The Consumer Protection Act. You would think that that would have been in the Consumer and Corporate Affairs portfolio instead of in the Bill on electronic com munication. However, I understand that the amendment to The Consumer Protection Act,

part 6 of the Bill, is going to be transferred to the other portfolio where it belongs.

Section 6 amends The Consumer Protection Act. What it does is enhance the protection of credit card holders, but in so doing it changes the agreement that exists between the issuer and the holder. At the present time, when a person receives a credit card in the mail, there is an agreement with the credit card that states the terms that the credit card can be used. Those terms are agreed to by the holder when the issuer mails them out and the credit card holder signs an agre ement. When you sign the back of your card, it says you have agreed to those conditions.

However, this government says we are going to change that agreement, even though people are threatened now with the possibility of losing the right to have credit cards because the agreement between the holder and the issuer has been overridden in this legislation. Probably this legislation will not stand the test of time. It says in the legislation: Despite any agreement entered into before . Again, in the next

section it says: Despite any agreement entered into before. Then it changes the respon sibility of the credit card holder, and it says the credit card holder, if he loses his card, has no respo nsibility whatsoever. That is what the new act says. I do not think then that people who send out-Visa is not going to send me a credit card if they find out that in Manitoba there is no resp onsibility. It also says that of any authorized use, the agreement overrides the contract between the issuer and the holder. Mr. Speaker, I think this bill will collapse on its own, so we will let it go forward at this time. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to say a few words about Bill 31, The Electronic Commerce bill. In general, I think this is a significant and noteworthy initia tive by the Government. Clearly, this is the way the world is going, and it is necessary for Manitoba to be there. There are some clear provincial reasons why we should have legislation here, as well as there be federal legislation, and those differences will probably emerge even more as time passes.

Never theless, we should endeavour to be as similar as we can across the country, even as different provinces probably will experiment to some extent with slight modifications on bills dealing with electronic commerce. It is important that we are there in Manitoba because there can be quite significant savings both in time and cost from a variety of perspectives, both the seller and the purchaser of goods and services. This is important to governments trying to save costs, to individuals, to businesses and to a variety of other organizations.

Electronic commerce has the potential and, indeed, is in many circumstances more convenient. Individuals can shop at the time of day or night that they would like from their home or their office or the cottage, and it is -

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4347 important that there be some assurance that the tra nsactions that are performed have some validity in law as well as in pract ice. Clearly, technology advances and enables changes, and we should be there in Manitoba. I think it is worthwhile mentioning some of the goals that legislation like this should hope to achieve.

First of all, it should facilitate the ability of citizens of Manitoba, Manitoba governments and public sector organizations, including governments, to participate in the electronic world providing some assurance at the same time that privacy and security issues are dealt with in a responsible fashion and that there are legal avenues for recourse when there are disputes about contracts, about signature s, about other aspects of electronic commerce. So it is important that we put in place this legislation.

I would suggest it is also going to be increasingly important to have some under standing of what we receive in terms of effectiveness, quality, that guarant ees or information that is provided on cost-savings is valid, and how we do that and how we move forward will clearly be important if this whole area of electron ic commerce is going to be expanding with individuals at the moment and companies at the moment who are reluctant being slower to parti cipate until they really have the assurances that these aspects are going to be well looked after.

It is at the same time, I suggest, important to have a goal that we provide an environment in Manitoba which facilitates the growth of com panies using electronic commerce and facilitates the growth of governments and public sector organizations in using electronic means of delivering because of the cost and indeed the ease of getting information and receiving information under many, many circumstances.

Missing in this bill are details of what the Government's approach to procurement will be, what their approach to the use of taxing powers and tax credits instruments in terms of this whole area and what the Government's approach will be to areas like research and development in electronic commerce to facilitate the growth of companies that are very important to the new economy in Manitoba. * (1 6:20) Missing in this legis lation is any recognition that electronic approaches can be particularly beneficial for Fir st Nations who are often isolated, further away from other communities, and the potential advantages for Fir st Nations in not only using but benefiting from this area, not only of electronic commerce but of electronic information, electronic learning.

I would recom mend that the Government indeed look carefully at this area, because it is a role that government could play in facilitating the development of the use of electronic networks, electronic informa tion and providing advantages in new ways for First Nations enterpri ses, for First Nations opportunities in areas of Manitoba which are isolated and have fewer of the trad itional types of opportunities for employment and economic growth. I will also make a comment or two about the need, given the electronic world, for the Government to consider carefully the process of digital archiving of records.

Clearly what is being put in place here is a validation of electronic record. As this is in place it becomes very important to put in place throughout government, perhaps centralized, but carefully a way of archiving electronic records so that where there are changes made to the electronic records they are recorded. One can have some understanding of the authenticity, the time frame, the originality of the documents.

That becomes very important, not only for individual agencies or departments, but, in fact, because it is so critical I suggest it is important to put in place a mechanism at the centre of government to make sure that the processes for storing and archiving and keeping documents in el ectronic form is of the highest possible quality. There is a clear need to archive now electronic documents in a way that you can record the original and what changes have occurred. The technology exists already. It is being used in places like, as an example, the patient records at the Manitoba Cancer Foundation.

It would be very important that whether we are dealing with archives of museum information, archives of legal documents in government, archives of government information put out, that we have the kind of assurance that

4348 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 things are being done well, they are handled well. I suggest that this is an area that the Minister should look very caref ully at, so that, in fact, the whole of government and not just parts of government are really using this area well. It is clearly a fast-moving area. There will need to be changes and adaptations made. The area of consumer protect ion is one of the newer areas and what works and what does not work to some extent we may have to find out in part by experim entati on, in part by getting the best advice we possibly can.

So I look forward to the presentations at the committee stage, the input from citizens, and hope we get the best advice we can so that this bill, for Manitoba's sake, and for the companies, individuals and the public sector organizations in Manitoba, is the best it can possibly be. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 31, The Ele ctronic Commerce and In formation, Consumer Protec tion Amendment and Manitoba Evidence Amendme nt Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Bill 45- The Teachers' Pensions Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Caldwell), Bill 45, The Teachers' Pensions Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia pension de retraite des enseig nants ), standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan). Is it the will of the Houst! for the Bill to remain standing in the name of the Member for Carman? Leave has been denied. Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Spea ker, I rise to speak today just to put a fe w words on the record about The Teachers' Pensions Amend ment Act, Bill 45. As you know, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House we are very supportive of teachers. We are very supportive of the kinds of needs they have as they go through their career.

We know that this bill gives the teacher the right to purchase, on a cost-shared basis with the employer, service rela ting to maternity leave. Mr. Spea ker, as I look through this bill, there are many very commendable things that will support teachers as they go on maternity leave, support teachers in terms of their benefits and support teachers in terms of planning their professional career around a family.

We think it is very important on this side of the House to allow teachers to be able to have a well -rounded family life as well as the opportunity to continue their professional careers and to have things in place that do not play on a detrimental point and cause them distress during the time when they choose to have and raise families. It also is very mindf ul of the school divisions' respons ibility to be able to supply funds for maternity leave for tt!achers, so they can have this time away from school and still maintain their professionalism in the academic world. Mr.

Speaker, I just want to say that on this side of the House, we are very mindful and very supportive of this particular Bill 45, because we fe el that it does support and enhance the ability of teachers to continue in the workforce and also to continue at the pension Jevds and the pay levels they need as they make decisions in their lives that are family-oriented . On this side of the House, ll want to put on the record that any bill that does support teachers in a meaningful way and any bill that does provide teachers with the car�:er support that they need is something this side of the House

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4349 definitely will support and will look forward to continuing. I must put a word on the record about other bills where this side of House has fe lt that it was other bills, like 42, that have been detrimental to the teaching profession and detrimental to Manitobans across the province. Those things we have spoken against. Mr. Spea ker , this is not one of those bills. This is a bill that this side of the House can be very supportive of and mindful of the need out there for teachers to have this kind of legisla tion in place.

So this side of the House will have no desir e to stop this bill. It is something that teachers have and do need. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 45, The Teachers' Pen sions Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. House Business Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I wish to announce that the Public Utilities and Natural Resources Committee will meet on Wednesday, July 26, at 10 a.m., to consider the following bills: 6, 7, 14 , 16 , 21 and 31. wish to announce that the Law Amendme nts Comm ittee will meet on Wednesday, July 26, at 10 a.m., as well, to consider the following bills: Bills 23 and 36 for clause-by-clause conside ration.

I wish to announce that in addition to the bills already scheduled for consideration by the Law Amendments Committee on Tuesday, July 25, at 6:30 p.m., and July 26, at 6:30 p.m., if necess ary, considerin g Bills 12 and 42, the Committee will also consider Bill 45, The Teachers' Pensions Amendment Act. Mr.

Speaker: It has been announced that in addition to the bills alread y scheduled for considera tion by the Law Amendments Com mittee on Tuesday, July 25, at 6:30 p.m., and July 26, 6:30 p.m., if necessa ry, for Bill 12 and Bill 42, the Committee will also consider the following: Bill 45, The Teachers' Pensions Amendment Act. will also announce that the Law Amendments Committee will meet on Wednes day, July 26, at 10 a.m., to consider the following bills: bills 23 and 36, clause by clause.

Also, it has been announced that the Public Utilities and Natural Resources Committee will meet on Wednesday, July 26, year 2000, at 10 a.m ., to consider the following bills: 6, 7, 14 , 16 , 21 and 31. * (1 6:30) Mr. Mackintosh: I wish to obtain the unanimous consent of the House to vary the sequence for Estimates considera tion, to consider in the Chamber the Estimates of the Department of Education and Training to follow Executive Council and in Room 254 the departments of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Status of Women, and Civil Service Commission to follow Conse rvation.

At the conclusion of the consideration of Estimates assigned to that

section which first completes its work, the Estimates of Inter governmental Affairs will be assigned to that section. Mr. Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House to vary the sequence for Estimates considera tion set out in Sessio nal Paper No. 138 to subsequently amend it to consider in the Chamber the Estimates of the Department of Education and Training to follow Executive Council and in Room 254 the departments of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Status of Women, and Civil Service Commission to follow Conserva tion, and at the conclusion of the consideration of Estimates assigned to that

4350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000

section which first comple tes its work, the Estimates of Intergovernmental Affairs will be assigned to that section? Is there unanimous consent? [Agreed] Mr. Mackintosh: I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Ms. Wowchuk), that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty. Motion agreed to. * (16: 50) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) CONSERVATION Mr. Chairperson (Harry Schellenberg): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This afternoon, this

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 will resume considera tion of the Estimates of the Department of Conserva tion. When the Commi ttee last sat, it had been considering item 12 .3. Resource Programs (

b) Parks and Natural Areas (

I) Administration (

b) Other Expenditures, $428,200, on page 39 of the Estimates book. Shall the line pass? Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): What line were you at? This is under Parks and Natural Resource s? Mr. Chairperson: Page 39, Conservation, in the Estimates book, item 3.(

b) Parks and Natural Areas (

I) Administration (

b) Other Expen ditures. Mr. Maguire: Right. So you have passed line (a). Mr. Chairperson: Yes, Salaries and Employee Benefits, line (a), has been passed. I will read it again. Line 12 .3 .(b )( I )(

b) Other expenditures $428,2 00-pass; (

c) Grant Assis tance $19 1 ,200 -pass. 3. (b)

(2) Planning and Development (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $834,1 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $1 94,6 00-pass. 3.( b)

(3) Park Districts (

a) Salaries and Employee Ben efits $438,3 00--pass; (

b) Other Expendit ures $49,3 00-pass. 3. (b)

(4) Park Opera tions and Maintenance (

a) Salaries and Employee Ben efits $9,867,50 0- pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $4.,545,5 00-pass. 3. (b)

(5) Suppor t Services (

a) Salaries and Employee Ben efits $234, 200-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $52,3 00-pass. 3. (

c) Petro leum and Energy (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,557 ,200-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $6 1 8,900. Shall the line pass? Mr. Maguire: The only question I have in this area of Petroleum and Energy, or two, I guess, quickly, one of them is Canada has set standards for the whole situation in regard to the Kyoto Conference and the reduction of emissions that Canada has set for us to comply to. Can you give us any indication, Mr. Minister, as to whether you ·�oncur with the standards or the levels set by the national department? Hon.

Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): In the last little while, there have been questions in the House from the Libe ral Party in regard to emissions, global warming and so on, and in my responses I have tried to explain that in 19 97 the fe deral government became a signatory to the agreement that the Member ref ers to, the Kyoto Accord, and when the fe deral government became siignatory to that agreement, that sort of sent a signal to other jurisdictions in Canada, like provincial governments and territorial governments, that they would have a part to play in Canada's ef forts to contribute to the Kyoto Accord .

So each jurisdiction since then has been involved in developing their own strate gies. The Kyoto agreement has not been ratified yet. In the meantime, though, provincial governments are in the process of developing their strategy. When the Kyoto Accord is ratified, all of these

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 43 51 strategies will be put into place, but, in the mean time, we are not even waiting for the fe deral government to ratify the Accord. In Manitoba, we have started to develop our own strategies so that we can become part of the national resolution. Our pref erence, of course. is to have agreement across the country, provincial governments, territorial governments, and that we would endorse the Kyoto Accord with the fe deral government. So far that has not happened, but in the meantime we are going ahead with our own strategy. Mr.

Maguire: Can the Minister indicate to me what levels Manitoba is expected to attain by the target dates that the fe deral government has esta blished and whether he believes it is possible for us to attain those standards that the national government in Canada would expect us to? Mr. Latblin: Mr. Chairman, the Kyoto Accord calls for a 6% reduction in the C02 levels from the 19 90 levels by 2008 to 20 12 . That has not been ratified yet, as I said earl ier. As far as each province is concerned, there really has not been any agre ement as to what those levels might be.

But perhaps I could also advise the Member that Manitoba is the second lowest per capita, has the second lowest per capita emissions in Canada, and that is, of course, mainly due to the heavy relia nce on Manitoba Hydro energy. Mr. Maguire: I guess I would ask the question of the Minister: Has he instructed his depa rtment, or has the Department done any work in regard to analyzing what kind of an impact there would have to be on fuel prices in Manitoba if Canada is to attain its C02 emission reductions by the year 2006 or 2008? Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Chairman, as I indicated to the Member earlier, there is work going on right now by our officials. The Canadian Council of the Ministers of Environment will be meeting in October 2000, in the fall, where we will be reviewing all of these reports that will be coming from our officials. Then, by October, hopefully, we will have agreement as to what strategies to adopt and impleme nt, and, of course, whether by that time the fe deral government will also ratify the accord. There is work being done right now by our officials.

As I said, the results of all that work and study will be given to the ministers when they meet in October. * (17: 00) Mr. Maguire: Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Minister. I guess my point is you are saying that the information then will be made avai lable to the ministers' meeting, ministerial meeting in October. I only urge you to try to move forward with the development of an outline of the impact on other sources of energy for the province of Manitoba.

There are other provinces that it will have a bigger impact on, perhaps, but the of fshoot of what happens in some of the other larger provinces is going to have a multiplication ef fe ct here in the province of Manitoba. It may end up costing our consumers a great deal more for energy resources such as gas and natural gas, as opposed to what it may do in other jurisdictions that do not have the opportunity to be as rel iant on or as fortunate on having as much hydro as we would have in the water resources in that area, Mr. Minister. So I encou rage you to do that.

I think the only other question I have in this area is just a couple with a personal note. In the situation of the southwest area, in the Tilson area in regard to the group of individuals there who have been impacted by the emissions, the H2S gas that has come off of some of the sites there. Can you give me an update on where that is at, Mr. Minister?

I know that the Health Department officials have been brought in to help seek solutions there, and maybe you can tell me where the Department is at and, as well, where the companies are at in their effort to-I understand their ef fort to reduce these emissions, and I wonder if you can just bring us up to date on that. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairman, yes, there is indeed a very serious concern that was brought to us by residents of that area that the Member ref ers to. I believe they met with the Department of Hea lth Minister as well as officials from that department. There were other meetings held.

Finally, we had a meeting ourselves with the resi dents from that area. The Chief Medical Of ficer was present at that meeting that I was at,

4352 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 and it was at that meeting that I came to understand that our depart ment is continuing to monitor the situation. Incidentally, I should go back a little bit. For me, it was a very serious meeting because the people whom I met were people who had really bad experiences with the emission of gases from those oil wells, I guess. By the time I met with them, they had been so traumatized, I guess, by their experiences that for me it became quite a difficult meeting.

Seeing people in front of you breaking down, trying to describe their situation, that is what I mean by it became a difficult meeting. I think by the end of the meeting we were able to satisfy the residents that government was doing something, government was taking this issue very seriously, and that we were bound and determ ined to come up with some sort of a resoluti on. So we advised them that we were going to be monitoring the situation very closely.

Also, the Department of Health I understand is doing an in-depth study into those gases that are being em itted from those fields, but, as I understand it today, there have been no results produced yet. I would also like to advise the Member the recent monitoring that we are doing has apparent ly shown the-sorry, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to make sure I had my information right. The monitoring that we are doing currently in that area has apparently shown some hydrogen sulphide emissions from the swamp that samples are being taken from. So we are looking into that situation as well.

As I said earlier, the results are not known yet. The air quality monitoring that is going on currently, I think I would like to end by saying to the Member we are monitoring the situation very closely. I am satisfied anyway that we are monitoring the situation very closely. I am anxious to get the results from all the studies that we are doing, including that of the study that is being conducted by the Department of Health. So whenever we get those results in, of course, it will be in a report form, and I will be glad to share those with the Member for his review. Mr.

Maguire: I thank the Minister for that and look forward to seeing the review when it comes forward. There is only one other question I have. It is in rela tion to the diffe rences in taxation and licensing fe es and that sort of thing in the oil industry for maintenance, and perhaps the oil crews themselves on both sides of the Saskatchewa n-Manitoba border. It is my under standing that crews coming in from Saskatchewan do not pay Manitoba tax. They do not have to get a licence or a fi�e to come in and do work in the oil field in Manitoba.

Yet similar crews going into Saskatchewan pay tax there; pay a fe e there; have to get a licence to operate there. I wonder if the Minister can bring us up to date on just exactly the diffe rences that take place and why we are not doing more to encour age sort of a made-in-Manitoba formula within our own oil industry in that comer. Mr. Lathlin: I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I could not follow the question. Would he mind maybe giving me his question again or rephrasing it? I do not think I got it. Mr. Maguire: Mr.

Minister, it has to do with maintenance crews and some of the crews that would do things like digging in lines between oil wells or to batte ries, work that is being done in Manitoba. It is my understa nding that Saskatchewan companies tendering and coming in and get ting those jobs are successf ul in that whole area, but they do not hav(� to pay a fe e or a licence to come into Manitoba to work here in that regard .

I am not promoting that they have to, but the concern that has been raised with me personally is that Manitoba crews going into Saskatchewan to tender on similar jobs have to pay a licence or a tax in Saskatchewan as part of get ting that job. So, therefore, your bidding process on those jobs would be diffe rent for a Saskatchewan company coming into Manitoba than a Manitoba company going into Saskatchewan. *( 17 :10 ) Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairman, I understand that companies who do come into Manitoba have to

July 24, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4353 pay the provincial sales tax for their heavy equipment rigs that come in.

I am not so sure that I have a firm handle on that other piece of information, so what I would like to propose to the Member is that as far as the licence is concerned, the diffe rent fe es that they have to pay, that is, Saskatchewan com panies coming in to do work in Manitoba, I am given to understand that they do end up paying some sort of a fe e, some sort of a licence fe e, but I think it is dependent on how long they are in Manitoba, how involved the work is when they come into Manitoba.

I am going to find that out for sure, and I will give that information in writing to the Member, so that rather than saying to him I think that is how it works, I am going to find out for sure exactly how it works. Mr. Maguire: Thanks, Mr. Minister, for that. I look forward to that information as well. If you could send me a copy of that, I would very much appreciate it I heard it last fall a bit and again just recently here. So it is a situation that I would like to be able to help these folks out a little bit, give them some more information as well, if we could. I look forward to your answer on that.

With that, I am prepared to pass the rest of the lines under Petro leum. Mr. Chairperson: I will read line 12 .3. Resource Programs (

c) Petroleum and Energy

(2) Other Expenditures $6 1 8,900-pass. 3. (

d) Forestry

(1) Administration (

a) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $342,600 -pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $447,700 -pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $465, 800-pass. 3. (d)

(2) Forest Resources Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $896,200. Shall the line pass? Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): Just a fe w thoughts on Forestry, I know the Minister is aware, as we were aware prior to departing from government, that the forestry complex at Pine Falls has significant expansion plans that they shared with us. It would be fairly significant. I am aware that it was a fairly significant order, millions of dollars, additional job opportunities, of course, and, of course, that hinges with the group obtaining some additional forestry allocations.

They are looking at the east side of the province to obtain those forestry allocations. Mr. Chairman, this is in my opinion where the Department and the Minister face a specific challenge in terms of on the one hand managing our resources-in this case, forestry-as prudently as possible on behalf of the people of Manitoba. You have later on an item, Forest Economics and Market ing.

It is certai nly, in my belief and my understanding, that with appropriate guidelines we have suf ficient forestry resources to accommodate the kind of requests that Pine Falls has before the Governm ent, or at le ast had before the Government. I am assuming it is still there. I am also aware, and I know that certainly within the Department you are aware, there are a good number of people in Manitoba who look at the whole side of east Winnipeg and would like it to just be set aside as one giant environmental reserve or park, not to be exploited in any way by roads, by forestry opera tions, mining opera tions.

That is a legitima te point of view, and I suspect you harbour within your merged depa rtment a very strong sentiment about that point of view. It will be interesting for us to watch in opposition which point of view will prevai l. In other words, Mr. Minister, I am g1vmg you fair notice that, when that $1 00-million-plus investment does not take place at Pine Falls, along with those jobs, then we will know which part of your department has prevai led. I am asking you if you can give me an update, Mr.

Minister, about the Pine Falls proje ct, whether or not the Pine Falls group, former Abitibi Price Group, is still actively pursuing with you and your department significant and major expansion plans for their mill at Pine Falls. * (17: 20) Mr. Lathlin: Yes, the Member is absolutely right. Bef ore the last election, there had been considerable -we ll, I mean, there is quite a bit of discussion going back and forth, I think, between

4354 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Pine Falls, Tembec and the provincial govern ment, and, I believe, also with some of the Aboriginal communities that live around that area, with labour, and so, because about three or four days after I had been sworn in as minister I was asked to attend a meeting in Pine Falls. I did, and I met with the company officials, the First Nations Aboriginal people, labour, and government, all four groups togethe r. As it stands now, the mill has been granted a licence to proceed with this new mill that they had been talking about. So that is going.

They are also looking, as the Member will probably remember, at a sawmill opera tion. They were going to install a sawmill because right now they are a paper mill , but they are also looking to getting into a sawmill opera tion. Initially, they told us that they would probably need additional volume of wood in order to accommodate the sawmill. So that is where it stands now. We are working with them to determine for sure that there is enough wood in their existing area because, as the Member state d, we are certainly going to work with industry.

We are also, in our announcements that we have made recently, interested in working with the First Nations Aboriginal people who are indigenous in that area. But that is down the road. Right now, what the Member is asking is what the current status is of Pine Falls paper mill. So that is where it is at right now. They have proceeded under a licence with the new mill, and right now we are trying to determine if there is enough volume to accommodate the sawmill. So far it looks optimistic, but, as I said, it is still in the explor atory stage . Mr.

Enos: The licence the Minister ref ers to: Can the Minister indicate when it was granted and what specifically it is for? What type of an expa nsion, can he quantify that expa nsion? Is it an expa nsion of the pulp and paper operation by new additions and new machines? And specifically, when was this licence that the Minister now ref ers to granted? Mr. Lathlin: Earlier in my response, I was looking for the right term, the expansion to the mill. Apparently, it is called thermal mechanical pulping process. That is what was incorporated into their expa nsion plan.

That mill expansion for construction, apparently the licence, I believe it was in 19 98, but I am not 1 00 percent sure that the licence was granted. Mr. Eons: I am not going to pursue the matter further. I think the Minister and the department officials apprec iate what I am n�ferring to. Quite frankly.

I have little patience for a lot of armchair environmentalists living in the comfort of Winnipeg or anywhere else in the province tellin g the good people who live in the eastern part of the province- there are, as the Minister is well aware, a number of First Nations people as well as other people -this concept that that whole area should be left virgin and untouched; it does not impress me.

I am hoping that the Minister, with due and proper caution and guidelines for the envi ronment, will enable and ensure that those communities. those First Nations communities, have access to, have opportunity of some economic development that expanded forestry or indeed mining or other operations present themselves from time to time. Mr. Chairman. I will leave it at that. We will, in the Opposition, be watchful of this particular instance. What the Minister has really told me, that the proje ct, as envis aged by Pine Falls, real ly has not moved forward, has not moved forward at all.

It is now nine months, close on to a year, and I do not think it is particularly fair to the company involved, and it is certai nly not fair to the community involved, to the district involved. Pine Fal.ls, as you know, is a one-industry community, one town that lives and dies by its forestry resources. I think it needs a cle ar signal from this minister, from this government, as to which direction they are heading. Thank you, Mr. Chaim1an. Mr.

Lathlin: I would just like to say to the Member and to everybody here that, since I have been Minister, I have not said anything about delaying unnecessarily or saying no to develop ment or to envi ronmental groups, or to the Aboriginal people, or to people who are living in that area. What I have said repeatedly is that we announced our sustainable development strategy not that long ago, and there are principles there that I am very interested in following and see whether those principles can be incorporated -

July 24, 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4355 into the planning, the devel opment on the east side of Lake Winnipeg. I also want to make sure that we listen very caref ully to First Nations and Aboriginal people living in that area. I am very much interested in including them in the process so that, rather than standing on the periphery and watching all this development taking place, I want them to have a meaning ful input and meaning ful participation as to whatever might happen, whatever development might unfold on the east side of Lake Winnipeg. Mr. Chairperson: Line 12 .3.( d)

(2) Forest Resources Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Ben efits $896, 200-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $627, 700-pass. 3. (d)

(3) Forest Hea lth and Ecology (

a) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $1 ,668,2 00- pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $2,637,20 0-pass. 3. (d)

(4) Forest Economics and Marketing (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $355 ,200-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $50, 700-pass. 3. (d)(

S) Forest Regeneration Stock $1, 41 1, 900. Shall the line pass? Mr. Enns: How many trees is the Minister planting this year? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairman, about 4.21 mill ion tree seedl ings are being provided to the forest renewal program. * (17: 30) Mr. Chairperson: 12 .3. Resource Programs (

d) Forestry

(5) Forest Regeneration Stock $1, 41 1, 900--pass. 3. (d)

(6) Pineland Forestry Nursery- Nil. 3.(

e) Fisheries

(1) Administration (

a) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $1 1 9,8 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $203,300 -pass. 3.( e)

(2) Fish Culture (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $676,40 0-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $279,900 -pass. 3. (e)

(3) Fisheries Habitat Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $349, 000-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $64, 700-pass. 3. (e)

(4) Sport and Commercial Fishing Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $597, 10 0. Shall the line pass? Mr. Enns: Just a general question : Is the Fisheries division of the Depa rtment maintaining its level of stocking in our prime sports lakes? Can the Minister just give me a general indication of whether or not this budget line reflects an ongoing level of commitment to making sure that our lakes are stocked with sports fish? Mr. Lathlin: Yes, Mr. Chairman, we are maintaining the levels that were there bef ore . We are also encouraging more of that activity to be happening.

We are using portable fish hatcheries for those communities that want to be involved in fish enhancement programs. I would also like to maybe further advise the Member that I am very interested in again including our Aboriginal First Nations com munities. I know they are very much interested in participating in the program, and it is my hope that we can actually get into some programming with those groups as we ll. Mr. Enns: Mr.

Chairman, I am ple ased to hear that because I need not tell this minister I think there is a very good reason for reaching out and working with the First Nations aboriginal community in this sense, recognizing as we all do their treaty rights that they have, which sometimes conflict in the resource management. I hope and I wish the Minister every success in working with the First Nations people and the Aboriginal people. I think that is the way to work with all people and not have a situation develop where confrontation takes place. Pass. Mr. Chairperson: Line 12 .3 .(e)

(4) Sport and Commercial Fishing Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $597, I 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $74,6 00-pass. 3. (e)

(5) Northern Fishermen's Freight Assistance $250,000. Shall the line pass?

43 56 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 24, 2000 Mr. Maguire: Yes, Mr. Chairman, the obje ctives under the Northern Fishermen's Freight Assistance are to assist and maintain the viability of the fish movement, that sort of thing, and the transportation costs on se lected fish species. Can the Minister indicate to us which species are involved and if, in fact, the assistance of $250,000 was used in the same manner this year as it was last year? Mr. Latblin: Mr. Chairman, the program is targeted mainly towards walleye. Mr. Maguire: I notice that the Expected Results of the obje ctives of the Department, on page 10 4 indicate that the

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-1-66
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 1st hansardpdf 66.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
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