British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, March 5, 2013

H0305pm-06

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fift h Session, 39th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF , SPEAKER ISSN 0709- 1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) Tuesday, March 5, 2013 Aft ernoon Sitting Volume 43, Number 6

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Fifth Session, 39th Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council .............................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Deputy Premier and Minister of Energy, Mines and Natural Gas and Minister Responsible for Housing .............Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ............................................................................................................ Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Advanced Education, Innovation and Technology and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism and Minister of State for Seniors ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Ralph Sultan Minister of Agriculture ........................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Norm Letnick Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Minister of Citizens' Services and Open Government ........................................................................................................Hon.

Ben Stewart Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ................................................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................. Hon. Don McRae Minister of Environment .................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr.

Terry Lake Minister of Finance .................................................................................................................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations......................................................................................Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health .......................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr.

Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ............................................................ Hon. Pat Bell Minister of State for Small Business ............................................................................................................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto Minister of Justice ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Social Development ...................................................................................................................................Hon. Dr. Moira Stilwell Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ......................................................................................................................Hon.

Mary Polak LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ......................................................................................................................................................Adrian Dix Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................

Linda Reid Assistant Deputy Speaker ..................................................................................................................................................................Dawn Black Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...................................................................................................................................................

Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees ................................................................................................................................. Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...................................................................................................................................................Roderick MacArthur, QC Clerk Consultant ..............................................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, George (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP) ................................................................................ Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP) ....................................................................Surrey-Newton Barisoff , Hon. Bill (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Penticton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ............................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Bell, Hon. Pat (BC Liberal) ....................................

Prince George–Mackenzie Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal) ...................................................Kootenay East Black, Dawn (NDP) ................................................................New Westminster Bloy, Harry (BC Liberal) .....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Hon.

Stephanie (BC Liberal) .................................Surrey-Panorama Cantelon, Ron (BC Liberal) ............................................. Parksville-Qualicum Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .................................Vancouver–West End Chong, Hon. Ida (BC Liberal) .................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ........................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) .................................Vancouver–Point Grey Coell, Murray (BC Liberal) ..............................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (BC Liberal) .......................... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .............................................................. Kootenay West Coons, Gary (NDP) .........................................................................North Coast Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ..................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ............................................. Maple Ridge–Mission de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ..............................

Abbotsford West Dix, Adrian (NDP) ............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ......................................................................... Stikine Elmore, Mable (NDP) ................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Falcon, Kevin (BC Liberal) ...................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ............................................................ Port Coquitlam Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..........................................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) .......................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (NDP) ............................................................Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Gentner, Guy (NDP) .........................................................................Delta North Hammell, Sue (NDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Colin (BC Liberal) ........................................... Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (BC Liberal) ..............................................

Abbotsford-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (BC Liberal) ................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Heed, Kash (BC Liberal) ............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ............................................... Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP) ....................................................................... Juan de Fuca Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ..............................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Howard, Rob (BC Liberal) ....................................................

Richmond Centre Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, Carole (NDP) .........................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................Esquimalt–Royal Roads Krog, Leonard (NDP) ........................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (BC Liberal) .............................. Kamloops–South Th ompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lake, Hon. Dr.

Terry (BC Liberal) ....................Kamloops–North Th ompson Lali, Harry (NDP) ..........................................................................Fraser-Nicola Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ......................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (BC Liberal) ................................................ Peace River South Les, John (BC Liberal) ........................................................................Chilliwack Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal) ..............................Kelowna–Lake Country MacDiarmid, Hon. Dr. Margaret (BC Liberal) ..............

Vancouver-Fairview Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ....................................Columbia River–Revelstoke McIntyre, Joan (BC Liberal) .................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky McNeil, Mary (BC Liberal) ..........................................Vancouver–False Creek McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) ..................................................

Comox Valley Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ..........................................................Nelson-Creston O'Mahony, Gwen (NDP) .........................................................Chilliwack-Hope Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River North Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal) .............................................................. Langley Popham, Lana (NDP) ...................................................................Saanich South Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ............................................................Richmond East Routley, Bill (NDP) .................................................................. Cowichan Valley Routley, Doug (NDP) ............................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) .......................................................... Nechako Lakes Sather, Michael (NDP) ......................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (Ind.) .....................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Slater, John (Ind.) .........................................................Boundary-Similkameen Stewart, Hon. Ben (BC Liberal) .......................................... Westside-Kelowna Stilwell, Hon. Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Langara Sultan, Hon. Ralph (BC Liberal) ........................... West Vancouver–Capilano Th omson, Hon.

Steve (BC Liberal) .......................................Kelowna-Mission Th orne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .......................... North Vancouver–Seymour Trasolini, Joe (NDP).................................................... Port Moody–Coquitlam Trevena, Claire (NDP) .................................................................... North Island van Dongen, John (Ind.).........................................................Abbotsford South Y amamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal) ................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Y ap, John (BC Liberal) ......................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission .......................................................................Randy Hawes Abbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen Abbotsford West ...................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater Burnaby–Deer Lake ................................................................... Kathy Corrigan Burnaby-Edmonds ......................................................................... Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed ............................................................................ Harry Bloy Burnaby North .............................................................................. Richard T.

Lee Cariboo-Chilcotin ........................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North ................................................................................ Bob Simpson Chilliwack ............................................................................................... John Les Chilliwack-Hope ......................................................................Gwen O'Mahony Columbia River–Revelstoke .................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley...........................................................................Hon.

Don McRae Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .....................................................Douglas Horne Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Th orne Cowichan Valley ................................................................................

Bill Routley Delta North ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki Huntington Esquimalt–Royal Roads .....................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Harry Lali Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John Horgan Kamloops–North Th ompson ............................................ Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ...................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country ..................................................... Hon. Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission .............................................................. Hon. Steve Th omson Kootenay East .......................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Kootenay West ............................................................................ Katrine Conroy Langley.......................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Maple Ridge–Mission ..................................................................... Marc Dalton Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather Nanaimo ......................................................................................... Leonard Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan .........................................................

Doug Routley Nechako Lakes .................................................................................. John Rustad Nelson-Creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall New Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn Black North Coast....................................................................................... Gary Coons North Island ..................................................................................

Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto North Vancouver–Seymour ................................................. Jane Th ornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ............................................................ Hon. Ida Chong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... Ron Cantelon Peace River North ................................................................................

Pat Pimm Peace River South .........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton................................................................................... Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam ..................................................................Joe Trasolini Powell River–Sunshine Coast ................................................. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Prince George–Valemount ................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Richmond Centre ............................................................................ Rob Howard Richmond East ................................................................................... Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands ..................................................... Murray Coell Saanich South ................................................................................

Lana Popham Shuswap .........................................................................................George Abbott Skeena .............................................................................................. Robin Austin Stikine .......................................................................................

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ...........................................................................Kevin Falcon Surrey-Fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ................................................................................. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................ Hon.

Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Tynehead ........................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ....................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Fairview .......................................Hon. Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–False Creek ..................................................................

Mary McNeil Vancouver-Fraserview ........................................................................Kash Heed Vancouver-Hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .......................................................Hon. Dr. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................................... Colin Hansen Vancouver–West End ...............................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill .......................................................................Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.........................................................................Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano ................................................... Hon. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................ Joan McIntyre Westside-Kelowna ...................................................................Hon.

Ben Stewart Party Standings: BC Liberal 45; New Democratic 36; Independent 4

CONTENTS Tuesday, March 5, 2013 Aft ernoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13297 Tributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13298 Keith MacKenzie Hon. D.

McRae Introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13298 Introduction and First Reading of Bills .............................................................................................................................. 13298 Bill 13 — Supply Act (No. 1), 2013 Hon. M. de Jong Bill M205 — Social Media Password Protection Act, 2013 N. Simons Bill M206 — Standards of Care for Breeders of Companion Animals Act J.

Th ornthwaite Statements (Standing Order 25B) ....................................................................................................................................... 13300 Merritt Centennials hockey team H. Lali Association of Former MLAs K. Krueger Burnaby apartment building fi re and response K. Corrigan Technology-facilitated program at Seycove Secondary School J. Th ornthwaite Iqra Islamic School in Surrey and work of Ali Mihirig B. Ralston Vancouver International Airport and CEO Larry Berg R.

Howard Oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 13302 Premier's offi ce records and freedom-of-information requests A. Dix Hon. C. Clark D. Routley Hon. B. Stewart Times of India Film Awards show and freedom-of-information request R. Chouhan Hon. P . Bell Investigation into partisan activities relating to multicultural outreach strategy L. Krog Hon. C. Clark Graduated licensing for motorcycles K. Corrigan Hon. S. Bond R.

Austin Inclusion of fi nancial instruments in government asset sale B. Ralston Hon. M. de Jong Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 13307 D. Th orne

Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House .......................................................................................................................................... 13307 Bill 4 — Tla'amin Final Agreement Act Hon. I. Chong S. Fraser N. Simons B.

Simpson Report and Th ird Reading of Bills ....................................................................................................................................... 13324 Bill 4 — Tla'amin Final Agreement Act Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) ........................................................................................................................... 13324 Hon. S.

Bond Committee of the Whole House .......................................................................................................................................... 13324 Bill 5 — Protected Areas of British Columbia Amendment Act, 2013 M. Sather Hon. T. Lake C. Trevena

TUESDAY , MARCH 5, 2013 Th e House met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: Joining us today in the gallery are a group of entrepreneurs, businessmen and -women from Victoria — Peter Hardcastle, Raj Virk, Malty Devy, Glen Sharky, Erin Usapch, Chris Passero and Johannes van Dieten. I hope members will welcome these folks who, I'm told, are making their fi rst visit to these hallowed halls. Please make them welcome. M.

Karagianis: Today in the precinct we are going to be joined by 40 guests from Royal Roads University — 39 students, accompanied by their teacher. I think they'll be joining us at some point during the next hour of session here in the House. Would everyone please make them very welcome. [1335] Hon. P . Bell: Joining us in the House today are three dedicated public servants from the tourism division in the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training.

Joining us in the gallery are Clare Mason and Richard Porges, who are both committed individuals who've worked very, very hard to make sure tourism progresses forward in the province. Th irdly, we also have Ray LeBlond, who has spent 13 years working in the ministry and previously in Tourism B.C. He has done a spectacular job. We are sad that he is moving on, back into the private sector. He has been a key contributor in the development of the Destination B.C. legislation as well as the development of the initial board. I would ask that all members of the House please make all three individuals very welcome. L.

Krog: Joining us in the gallery today are 31 students from the Vancouver Island University's fourth-year busi- ness and government course. Accompanying them is their hard-working professor Dana Collette. Th ey're here spending the day in the Legislature, learning how busi- ness and government work together. I'd ask the House to please make them all welcome. M. Coell: I have two guests in the Legislature today — a former deputy minister, Bob Food, and his wife, Liz. Th ey're both from Saltspring. Would the House please make them welcome. B.

Ralston: In the gallery this aft ernoon is a delegation from the Advocis, the Financial Advisors Association of Canada. Advocis is the largest voluntary profession- al membership association of fi nancial advisers in the country and has 2,000 members across British Columbia. With members in every community, Advocis is uniquely placed to meet with members and discuss issues related to the fi nancial services industry. I'd ask the House to please welcome President David Webb and everyone from Advocis here today. M.

McNeil: I have two guests in the gallery this aft er- noon, and I would like the House to please make them feel welcome. Stacy Robertson and Sarah Hentschel have both joined us for question period. Both Stacy and Sarah are legal counsel with Watson Goepel in Vancouver. May the House please make them feel welcome. R. Fleming: In the gallery from S.J. Willis School in my constituency, from the Access alternative program, we have teacher Carol Aileen and three of her students — Erica Bates, Kim Feilde and Th ea Mayrhofer. I would like the House to make them welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

Also here today is a constituent of mine, Mr. James Dundas. J. McIntyre: I have a special guest in the gallery who joined me for lunch today. She's a family friend, and she has shown interest in politics since a young age, in high school, helping me out on my 2005 campaign. Her name is Talia Armstrong, and she's now a third-year student in UVic — guess what — in political science. She's inter- ested in pursuing a law degree and/or international re- lations. Would you all please join me in making her feel very welcome — her fi rst visit. M.

Elmore: I'd like to welcome from Sir Charles Tupper Secondary School three grade 11 social studies classes with 70 students. Th ey're led by their very capable principal, Kal Gill, and accompanied by two social stud- ies teachers, Autin Lum and Bonnie Burnell, as well as parent volunteers Hung Vu, Vincent Locke, Kim Rebain and Katherine Olsen — also known as Ms. K. They come to Victoria at a very opportune time. Th ey're very excited to listen to question period. Th ey're also interested and very engaged in the importance of the youth vote.

Sir Charles Tupper is known especially for celebrating and welcoming all the diverse cultures in Vancouver-Kensington. I ask everyone to please make them very welcome. Hon. T. Lake: Today I rise to make a diff erent sort of introduction. Usually, members introduce visitors and make note of their praiseworthy qualities, but today I rise to introduce someone who has interesting taste in clothing. 13297

British Columbia Debates13298 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 On February 7, National Sweater Day, the Ministry of Environment lowered offi ce temperatures by two degrees and challenged staff to wear a sweater to work. Today I rise in the House to congratulate David Tesch, a Ministry of Environment employee, a biologist, who won this year's ugliest sweater contest. [1340] I had the pleasure to take David to lunch in the legis- lature dining room earlier today and learned about his extensive career in the public service. He's been with us since 1996, mostly with policy related to fi sheries, and now manages the ecosystem information

section of the knowledge management branch of the ministry. Unlike with his sweater, David had some very good taste in where he lived. From '96 to 2004 he lived in the great city of Kamloops. Today we learned about the history of the sweater, made 20 years ago by his wife. He has worn it to every part of this province on his fi eld trips, and he actually loves his sweater. I want to remind people that when it comes to National Sweater Day — in fact, all year round — let's turn down our thermostats, wear a sweater and congratulate David and his lovely sweater in the gallery here today. P .

Pimm: I'd like to introduce a constituent of mine today, Brad Brain. Brad is here with the Advocis group. He is also president of the Fort St. John Chamber of Commerce. Would the House help me make him very welcome. Hon. D. McRae: I have two guests in the Legislature today. I have Dr. Barb Fehlau and Dave Lapointe. Barb is a physician in the Comox Valley and one of the leaders in the fi eld of palliative care in British Columbia, and I may say that she's probably also a leader in western Canada. Would the House please make them welcome. Tributes KEITH MacKENZIE Hon. D.

McRae: On a sad note today as we stand in this Legislature, in the Comox Valley there is a celebra- tion of life for a gentleman named Keith MacKenzie. Keith was the 12-year president for the Courtenay fi sh and game club in the Comox Valley. He served the club incredibly well. I've known him over 30 years. He was also my scoutmaster when I was 12 years old. Keith passed away at the age of 67. He'll be missed by his family, the fi sh and game club, and our community. Introductions by Members Hon. N.

Letnick: Today I have the pleasure of host- ing four distinguished people from the agricultural sector in British Columbia. Joining us in the House today are Mayor Jon Lefebure, mayor of North Cowichan; Jennifer and Ian Woike of Farmer Ben's Eggs; and Blaine Hardie of Hardie Honey. Between them, they represent two of our 300 commodities right here in British Columbia. Would the House please make them feel very welcome. J. Rustad: It's a pleasure today to introduce two guests to the House, Tony Straquadine and Terrance Kutryk with Alliance Pipeline.

We had an opportunity to have lunch today and to talk about the future of our natur- al gas industry, and the importance. Would the House please make them welcome. M. Dalton: A couple of weeks ago on the ferry I met a couple of very interesting people, Jona and Uri El- Hanany from Tel Aviv, Israel. Uri is working now as a principal scientist with Redlen Technologies in the Victoria area, which is a manufacturer of imaging equip- ment, including nuclear cardiology, CT scanning, bag- gage scanning and dirty bomb detection.

Jona is a retired pharmacist who worked with the Ministry of Health and spent quite a bit of time in the Knesset, the Israeli parlia- ment, and Jona is with us today. Shalom to her, and would the House please make her feel welcome. H. Bloy: For the second day in a row I have the privil- ege of introducing my son-in-law, Travis Rawluk, who is here again today to see question period live for the fi rst time. I'm asking the House to please make him welcome. R. Hawes: I rise today to recognize somebody who has not been recognized in this House, I don't think, and, in my view, should have been.

Th at's a great Mission art- ist from my hometown who designed and constructed the beautiful bronze statue of the fallen fi reman outside on the precinct grounds. Th at would be Dean Lauze of Mission. Could the House give a big shout-out to Dean. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL 13 — SUPPLY ACT (No. 1), 2013 Hon. M. de Jong presented a message from His Honour the Administrator: a bill intituled Supply Act (No. 1), 2013. Hon. M. de Jong: I move fi rst reading of Bill 13. Motion approved. [1345] Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister. Hon. M. de Jong: Mr. Speaker, consistent with other

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13299 supply acts presented prior to elections, Bill 13 will pro- vide interim supply for government operating expenses for the fi rst six months of the 2013-14 fi scal year. It also provides interim supply for government's fi nancing re- quirements for the 2013-14 fi scal year, including two- thirds of the year's voted capital expenditures and loans, investments and other requirements, and 100 percent of the year's requirements for revenues collected for and transferred to other entities.

Again, consistent with the supply acts that have been tabled in years where there are elections, I move that Bill 13 be placed on the orders of the day for consideration by the House at the next sitting aft er today. Bill 13, Supply Act (No. 1), 2013, introduced, read a fi rst time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House aft er today. BILL M205 — SOCIAL MEDIA PASSWORD PROTECTION ACT, 2013 N. Simons presented a bill intituled Social Media Password Protection Act, 2013. N.

Simons: I move that a bill intituled Social Media Password Protection Act, 2013, be introduced and read for a fi rst time now. Motion approved. N. Simons: Th e Social Media Password Protection Act amends the Personal Information Protection Act to prohibit an organization from asking for personal access information on an individual's social media website and further prohibits asking the individuals to sign on in their presence, a practice known as shoulder-surfi ng. British Columbia would be the fi rst jurisdiction in Canada to specifi cally prohibit these practices.

Th e fi rst such law in North America came into force in Maryland in March 2012. It was in response to the case of a correctional offi cer who was forced to provide his Facebook password to an interviewer during a recertifi - cation process when he returned from a leave of absence. Cases in Washington State, Ontario, Minnesota, here in British Columbia and in the United Kingdom suggest other jurisdictions will follow suit. Already, since Maryland enacted its fi rst law less than a year ago, Illinois, California and Michigan have fol- lowed suit. Nine more states are currently craft ing simi- lar legislation.

While we should never assume anything on line will be kept private, privacy is a condition that is threatened in our society. Th is act reaffi rms an individual's right to pro- tect their own privacy as well as the privacy of those with whom they have had communication on social media. Lastly, it prevents prospective applicants from having to make a choice between protecting their privacy and possible employment, educational or public service op- portunities.

I move that the Social Media Password Protection Act, 2013, be placed on the orders of the day for second read- ing at the next sitting of the House aft er today. Bill M205, Social Media Password Protection Act, 2013, introduced, read a fi rst time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House aft er today. BILL M206 — STANDARDS OF CARE FOR BREEDERS OF COMPANION ANIMALS ACT J. Th ornthwaite presented a bill intituled Standards of Care for Breeders of Companion Animals Act. J.

Th ornthwaite: I move that a bill entitled Standards of Care for Breeders of Companion Animals Act, of which notice has been given on the order paper, be intro- duced and now read for the fi rst time. Motion approved. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Member. J. Th ornthwaite: Th is bill declares that breeders of three or more female dogs or cats capable of reproduc- tion will be required not only to understand but to meet the standards of care in handling and breeding their ani- mals. We all remember the sled dog tragedy and the sub- sequent amendment to the PCA Act, which made our regulations the toughest in Canada.

I've adapted those best practices from across the world. Since fi rst introducing this bill last year, I've completed a detailed consultation process with veterinarians, ani- mal advocacy organizations and legitimate breeders and have revised it according to their advice. Th is ensures the bill enforces the highest standards in animal welfare. Th e bill does not target the many good and honest breeders in B.C., many of whom support my bill. Rather, it targets less scrupulous breeders who only seek monet- ary gains from the mass production of animals, with little or no consideration for the animals' well-being.

Recently there was a case of animal hoarding here in Victoria. Forty-fi ve puppies were rescued from inhumane conditions. It is for tragic stories such as this one that I feel the need to act. Th is bill gives teeth to enforce animal cruelty regu- lations and encourages greater levels of self-regulation amongst breeders. It will also protect prospective dog and cat owners by helping them identify good breeders. I ask for your support, and I move that the bill be

British Columbia Debates13300 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House aft er today. [1350] Bill M206, Standards of Care for Breeders of Companion Animals Act, introduced, read a fi rst time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House aft er today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) MERRITT CENTENNIALS HOCKEY TEAM H. Lali: Th e Kamloops Rockets, one of four origin- al teams in the upstart Okanagan Mainline Junior A Hockey League, was founded in 1961.

When the WCHL Vancouver Nats moved to Kamloops in 1973 to become the Chiefs, the city's team moved to White Rock that summer and was renamed the Centennials. By November White Rock was struggling on the ice and at the gate. In January 1974 Merritt businessmen Jim Flux, Len Pare, Bill Pooley, John Mulvey and Don Dewinetz formed Merritt Hockey Ltd. and purchased and moved the franchise to the Nicola Valley Memorial Arena in Merritt.

Th e Cents are one of only fi ve community-owned fran- chises in the BCHL, run by a volunteer executive and board of directors whose sole objective is to help Junior A hockey fl ourish in the community. Former Centennials who played in the National Hockey League include Fred Berry; Glen Cochrane; Tim Watters; Don Nachbaur; Ron Flockhart; Alan Kerr; Neil Eisenhut; Link Gaetz; Bill Muckalt; Mike Brown; and, of course, Merritt's own homegrown boys, Paul Mulvey and Eddy Beers, who I went to school with, and Paul Kruse. Th e BCHL is arguably the top league in all of Canadian Junior A hockey.

Th e Cents, second in the league this year, trail the reigning champs and their archrivals, the Penticton Vees, by just six points. Th e Cents have beaten the Vees in four out of six games this year. Th e playoff s will indeed be interesting. Since joining the league, Merritt has advanced to the playoff s 33 times, including this year, and won both the Doyle and Mowat cups during the '77-78 season — not bad considering the Vancouver Canucks made the NHL playoff s 25 times in 40 years. And we're still waiting for that elusive Stanley Cup one of these years. Merrittonians love their Junior A hockey team.

While Merritt is the smallest market in the 15-team league, the Merritt Centennials hockey club, now in its 40th year, is the longest continuously run franchise in the history of the British Columbia Hockey League. Sorry, Mr. Speaker, the Penticton Vees unfortunately ceased operations one year and did not play. To the Merritt Centennials: here's to another 40 years. ASSOCIATION OF FORMER MLAs K. Krueger: Th e year was 1998, and despite things that a lot of people say, not everything was dismal in the '90s. [Applause.] Warm applause from the offi cial opposition. Th ank you.

On February 10, 1998, Bill 55 passed third reading. Bill 55 was the Association of Former MLAs of British Columbia Act. Soon a number of people presently in this chamber — including me, actually — will qualify to be- come members of that distinguished association.

Its objects include putting the knowledge and experi- ence of former MLAs at the service of parliamentary democracy here in British Columbia and elsewhere, and also serving the public interest by providing non-partisan support for the parliamentary system of government in British Columbia, fostering a spirit of community among former MLAs and good relations between former and current MLAs. I was saddened some time ago to read of the death of a former MLA in Mexico. His widow said that he used to say: "Th ere's nothing as has-been as a former MLA." Th at's a tragedy. It should not be that way.

Folks come into the chamber, every one of us, meaning to represent our constituents well, and by and large, that's what we do. Th is is a great association. Its work includes awarding scholarships, fellowships and bursaries to stu- dents engaged in studies related to an increased under- standing of democracies and parliaments, and a variety of recognition and charitable events for those who make signifi cant contributions to our civil society. Now for the ask. Th e board of this association is seek- ing the membership of all retiring MLAs. Y our presence is desired. Y ou are in demand.

Th e in- vitation is proff ered herewith. I was actually asked to do this statement by the association, and I'm pleased to do it. Please contact the organization at ootb@shaw.ca. BURNABY APARTMENT BUILDING FIRE AND RESPONSE K. Corrigan: A nighttime fi re destroyed an apartment building on Smith Avenue in Burnaby on February 17, leaving the residents of all 34 units homeless. Luckily, no one was badly hurt, but several beloved animals were lost from this pet-friendly building. Most residents were left with nothing — no home to live in, no possessions and in many cases not even personal identifi cation.

I want to take this opportunity to commend my com- munity and many agencies for quick action on a num- ber of fronts. I want to thank the 41 fi refi ghters that very professionally fought the fi re. [1355] Th e city of Burnaby emergency program, the Burnaby Taskforce on Homelessness, the Red Cross, the Salvation

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13301 Army, the Progressive Housing Society and the South Burnaby Neighbourhood House all went into action to fi nd places to live, clothes and household items. Th e prov- incial emergency program provided hotel rooms. Faith groups stepped in as well. My offi ce worked hard supporting those actions and, in addition, assisted several residents in getting some- thing very basic but very necessary: new identifi cation. It was a very diffi cult task that oft en involved working with other provinces.

We arranged fee waivers for ID and wrote letters for tenants, connecting people with their MPs' offi ces and a variety of organizations. Our call for notarial services was answered by gen- erous lawyers and notaries. Th e board of trade stepped up and requested assistance from its members, and Scotiabank and others came through with acts of cor- porate generosity. I want to thank the Minister of Justice and the Minister Responsible for Housing for personally stepping in and assuring that every eff ort was made to facilitate assistance to the residents.

Th is was a terrible, life-altering event for the Smith Avenue residents, but I'm proud that my com- munity came together to provide much-needed support. Perhaps the most important thing is that the resi- dents found out that people really do care in a time of need. Th at is a powerful and hopeful message for them and for us. TECHNOLOGY-FACILITATED PROGRAM AT SEYCOVE SECONDARY SCHOOL J. Thornthwaite: Students learn in many different ways. Some learn by reading, others by doing, and some by technology. Th is is the approach taken by Seycove Secondary, where the FLIGHT program is being off ered to students.

FLIGHT is a technology-facilitated program based on an open concept of learning. It blends trad- itional classroom practices with a learning commons model, in which group work is combined with individ- ual projects. Th e aim of the program is to engage students with school material to enhance their learning skills, helping them become independent, creative and critical think- ers. Th e FLIGHT program follows the B.C. curriculum in core academic subjects, but it encourages students to also focus on subjects that they are passionate about. It is the defi nition of personalized learning.

By using tech- nology, students are able to do research, collect informa- tion and share their assignments with others, using the Internet in a safe and ethical way. I recently had the opportunity to visit Seycove and wit- ness fi rsthand the students' passion for learning. Seycove Secondary is doing a great job of putting students fi rst by creating tools that will engage them with their stud- ies. I congratulate them on their FLIGHT program and look forward to a new generation of motivated students. IQRA ISLAMIC SCHOOL IN SURREY AND WORK OF ALI MIHIRIG B.

Ralston: Iqra School is a growing presence in north Surrey. It began in 1997 with 18 students and has grown dramatically to its present enrolment of 386 students in kindergarten to grade 8. Students learn the same curricu- lum as Surrey's public schools, but they also study Islam and learn to speak and write Arabic. Th e school is located on a small site just south of the CN rail yards in north Surrey. Regularly expanding, it now includes 12 classrooms and a new wing, a play- ground and a recently updated gymnasium. Dr. Ali Mihirig is the founding chair of the school board and led its growth until recently.

Originally from Libya, Dr. Mihirig moved to British Columbia, where he earned a master's degree in electrical engineering from UBC in 1984 followed by a PhD in the same fi eld in 1987. He founded AM Power Systems, specializing in energy and electrical power distribution, and consulted world- wide from his base here in British Columbia over the past three decades. With the fall of the Gadhafi regime, Dr. Mihirig felt compelled to return to Libya to help the return to demo- cracy and the rule of law. He now serves there as the Minister of Electricity and Renewable Energy.

He joins two other Canadians in the Libyan government: Ali Hussein Al-Sharif, the Minister of Housing, and Awad Al-Barasi, the Second Deputy Prime Minister. Dr. Mihirig hopes to further trade and cultural ex- change between Libya and Canada, particularly British Columbia. Iqra School continues to grow and thrive. Mohammed Sultan Badshah has stepped in as acting chair of the board, bringing his expertise in human resource man- agement. Over the past 14 years Mrs. Amal Shokil has provided strong support for teachers and students alike as the school's administrative assistant.

Faisal Ali is the well-regarded principal of the Iqra School. I ask the House to recognize the achievements of both Dr. Mihirig and the Iqra School. V ANCOUVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AND CEO LARRY BERG R. Howard: Many fly in and out of Vancouver International Airport every day. YVR is spectacularly designed and welcoming to all tourists and travellers. It's also a gateway for our economy to continue thriving. [1400] Our government is investing in Pacifi c gateway pro- jects, which include YVR.

Governments at all levels have invested over $22 billion in the Pacifi c gateway, a remark- able legacy and a foundation for future growth. YVR is Canada's second-busiest airport, having wel- comed over 17 million passengers in 2012. It has 62

British Columbia Debates13302 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 airlines connecting people and businesses to 121 destina- tions in Canada, the U.S. and around the world. If that's not impressive enough, it creates over 23,000 jobs for British Columbians. YVR is expanding its operations and services, including becoming the fi rst North American airport to off er a direct fl ight to China's interior. I take this opportunity to recognize Larry Berg, YVR's chief executive offi cer, and his many years at the helm of YVR — and to refl ect on his announced retirement.

He has assembled and led a great team, taking YVR to new heights and building the Pacifi c gateway. YVR under his leadership has received international awards and global customer service awards, while also continuing to give so much back to the community. His accomplishments are a source of great pride for all British Columbians, and we thank him for his vision, his persistence and his dedication. Larry's accomplishments will be celebrated this Friday, March 8, at a luncheon coordinated by the Vancouver Board of Trade. Over 600 people have bought tickets to celebrate this great British Columbian.

Would the House please join me in wishing him the very best. Oral Questions PREMIER'S OFFICE RECORDS AND FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUESTS A. Dix: A question to the Premier. In March 2011, shortly aft er winning the leadership of her party, the Premier said she wanted to "make sure that open gov- ernment is something that's a reality, not just something that we talk about." Y esterday the Information and Privacy Commissioner released a report that showed a dramatic increase in the number of freedom-of-information requests that come back with no response of records — in other words, a blank sheet of paper.

In particular, the commissioner documented a 50 percent increase of such responses from the Premier's offi ce. How does the Premier justify this disturbing increase? Hon. C. Clark: I have the report from the Privacy Commissioner in front of me. I do want to start by thank- ing her for her diligent work, not just on this but on all the advice she off ers government. She makes six recommendations. Five of them we have accepted as a government.

Th e sixth one is one that is a recommendation for something that isn't contained in privacy legislation anywhere else in the country, so we are considering it and thinking about how we'd make that happen. In her report she makes quite a number of comments and suggestions. But in answer specifi cally to the mem- ber's question, the number of requests that the Premier's offi ce gets for items that are clearly not likely to be in the Premier's offi ce has gone up quite a bit. Y ou know, includ- ed in that are requests for things from other ministries.

My suspicion — and I think the Privacy Commissioner would concur with this — is the reason for that is because we've changed the way people can request freedom of information. Th ere's a checklist now that people can go through. So rather than just asking for something from the Ministry of Transportation, they will oft en ask for the same information also, at the same time, from the Premier's offi ce — information that is not kept, stored or was ever received by the Premier's offi ce but, nonetheless, information that people oft en will request. Mr. Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition has a sup- plemental. A.

Dix: Of course, hon. Speaker, we're seeing an in- crease in these requests governmentwide. Th e Premier's offi ce is only a leader in this regard. Th ere's an alternate suggestion made in the report of the Privacy Commissioner. It's that it's now, apparently, the policy of the Premier's offi ce not to engage in substan- tive communications via e-mail. Further, it's the policy of the Premier's offi ce, it would appear, to delete such e- mails because they may be transitory.

Does the Premier think that that policy is consist- ent with an appropriate response to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act? [1405] Hon. C. Clark: If the member would read through to page 27 of the report, he would fi nd the paragraph where the Privacy Commissioner says: "I have found that the government is in compliance with its duty to assist ap- plicants." She goes on to suggest some recommendations for change, fi ve of which we are accepting and the sixth of which we are considering. But I do want to give an example of some of the re- quests that, typically, the Premier's offi ce gets.

Th e re- ceptionist in my offi ce gets a request every month for her calendar. She does not keep a calendar. Every month the Premier's offi ce responds, and every month the re- quest comes in again. Th at is typical of the kinds of re- quests that we get. Many of the requests that we get are for information that we have. When we have that information, we com- ply with the act. We off er it in as timely a manner as we can because the value that we believe in is making sure that government is as open as possible to the citizens that this government belongs to. Mr.

Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition has a fur- ther supplemental. A. Dix: What we've seen with respect to the Burnaby Hospital issue and other issues, including issues we've

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13303 raised this week around the multiculturalism policy of the government, is a practice in the Premier's offi ce to use private e-mails for public business. Th is is something that I'm sure the Premier would suggest is not consist- ent with the act. So I'm asking the Premier what her response is to her offi ce's own presentation to the Privacy Commissioner, which talks about a diff erent practice for that, and sec- ondly, whether the Premier's offi ce is taking steps to en- sure that this doesn't continue to happen. Hon. C.

Clark: Well, I'm pleased that the Privacy Commissioner found that the government is in compli- ance, and we will continue to work hard to be in com- pliance. I know that we will, as I said, also act on the recommendations that she has off ered, in considering the sixth one and accepting all fi ve of the others. But I do want the member to just get a fl avour for some, in addition to the regular calendar requests that come to the receptionist in my offi ce and other people who don't keep calendars.

We have a request, for example, for rec- ords regarding the regional telephone town halls on the HST, including briefi ng notes and scripts for Ministers Kevin Falcon and Blair Lekstrom, contracts, tendering notices and master service providers. Th at information is not in the possession of the Premier's offi ce. It would be located in the Ministry of Finance or, at the time, the Ministry of Transportation.

Th e business case, budget, tendering information, con- tracts, work orders, statement of work and approval for the redesign of B.C. government websites — again not information that's contained in the Premier's offi ce. It's information that would be contained in the Ministry of Government Services. Documents between January 2011 and August 5, 2011, pertaining to B.C. Ferries funding a training program in support of Vancouver Shipyards, etc. Th ose are requests that we frequently get.

Applicants will put them to the Premier's offi ce, oft en not knowing the internal process of government, check- ing it off on a list. It's understandable, absolutely, how it happens. It's one of the reasons we've made the system much easier for people to be able to use — because we want to make sure that people can get the information that belongs to them. But it does also mean that many of the requests that come to the Premier's offi ce, that have also been directed somewhere else, probably wouldn't have come to the Premier's offi ce in the past.

Having said all that, we will certainly respond to the commissioner's recommendations, and again, I do want to thank her for her hard work. D. Routley: At the end of 2011 the Premier said: "Open government is about giving people a sense of con- fi dence that the government is working for them, not try- ing to do something to them." "We are working to make British Columbia the most open provincial government in Canada." Again we see the pattern of the Premier say- ing one thing but her own offi cials, senior offi cials in her own offi ce, acting completely diff erently.

Th e Premier must lead by example, but in this case, the administration of that example has fallen far short of the high ideals the Premier likes to talk about. Th at's the message to her colleagues — "Just don't put it in writing" — and to the rest of government: "Follow my lead. Keep it all out of the public eye." [1410] My question is to the Premier. What steps will she take to lift the veil of secrecy around her offi ce? Hon. B. Stewart: I'm also pleased that the commis- sioner's report indicates that the government IAO offi ce has very much been in compliance in terms of turn- around.

Th e number of requests to the Ministry of Citizens' Services and the information access branch has grown from over 8,000 last year to a number that's going to top out at over 10,000 requests this year. As the Premier has already stated, it's very easy to make these requests. But more importantly, the member opposite mentions about the access to Open Government. Th at information about those requests is published, and there are literally 10,000-plus pages that are on line at Open Government so that people can fi nd out what people are requesting of government information on line. Mr.

Speaker: Th e member has a supplemental. D. Routley: Y es, if records exist. But if the position of the government is not to create records, they won't be found. Also, in July 2011 the Premier said: "Previously, I think governments have sort of assumed that other people's information belongs to us, and we get to interpret it and disseminate it to people, and I don't think that's right. I think the information belongs to the public." Aft er all, it's taxpayers' money, and it's taxpayers' information.

Again, we are seeing the Premier's offi ce acting com- pletely contrary to the Premier's rhetoric, and that is spill- ing over into the rest of government. Th e overall increase within government of non-responsive records has almost doubled since 2008-2009. How does the Premier square the record of her offi ce with her rhetoric? Hon. B. Stewart: I just want to talk a little bit about the Premier's initiative. Since July of 2011 this govern- ment has adopted and taken seriously making certain that it is open and transparent and making certain that documents are published at Open Government, as I mentioned.

But more importantly, just this February in 2011 the public sector leadership award for the Institute of

British Columbia Debates13304 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 Public Administration of Canada recognized the British Columbia government for the No. 1 ranking in Canada for e-government and open government. As I mentioned, at Data B.C. there are over 3,000 data sets that we've put up on line to allow British Columbians to be able to access information that was not necessarily something that we had put up on line previously. So that has created something in the neighbourhood of 30,000 requests in access for information. I do want to talk a little bit about a particular culture.

I refer back to the member for Vancouver-Kingsway. He previously had been in the Premier's offi ce at a time when the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act ac- tually existed. Th e reaction in those particular days was the media was critical about the fact that there were budget cuts. But more importantly, there was also a cul- ture around memos that were backdated. So I'd like to ask the member opposite what they would do. TIMES OF INDIA FILM AW ARDS SHOW AND FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUEST R. Chouhan: It isn't just the Premier's offi ce that's ob- structing openness and transparency.

British Columbians have signifi cant concerns about the Liberal government's manufactured Bollywood awards show. But this govern- ment is blocking the public from accessing information about the show by imposing an exorbitant freedom-of- information request fee of $2,800. To the Minister of Citizens' Services and Open Government: why is this government using fees to hide information from the public about the Liberal pre- election manufactured awards show? [1415] Hon. P . Bell: I'm relatively certain that the member op- posite is going to have the opportunity for a supplemental.

So I hope he takes the opportunity to actually tell us why he opposes the TOIFA show, because this is going to be great for British Columbia. Some 200 million people in India will see it on the day that it's broadcast. Two repeat programs, 100 million people in each of those two. So 400 million people in India are going to see what's great about British Columbia. It's part of a four-pronged strategy that started when our Premier went to India on a trade mission. It was fol- lowed up by opening two new trade offi ces in India.

Th is month we're going to be hosting the B.C.-India Global Business Forum, which is going to start really increas- ing the activity. It's going to be followed up with 400 million people in India watching the show. It's a great opportunity. We need to build the economy of British Columbia. Th at's our position. What is that member op- posite's position? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Th e member has a supplemental. R. Chouhan: We are not against these awards. We are against…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Take your seat for a second, Member. Members. Continue, Member. R.

Chouhan: We are against the political shenanigans of this government. Th is government is pouring $11 mil- lion into this manufactured Bollywood awards show, but there is no business plan. We know this government is trying to get political benefi ts. However, for example, the webpage for the manufactured award show says B.C.'s state dignitaries will be duly honoured… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R. Chouhan: …on the stage. Will the Minister of Citizens' Services and Open Government ensure all information related to the manufactured Bollywood awards show will be made available today for free? Hon. P .

Bell: I think we just heard a new policy pro- nouncement from the other side. Th e only problem is that I don't think that member checked with his leader prior to making that announcement, so it may have been a bit of a surprise. But think of it. Th e Times of India reaches out to 90 million people each and every day through their various publications. Th ey have been in the business of produ- cing these shows since the 1950s. We've got a great deal at $11 million. It's already sold out. What I'd like to know is what day that member got in line for his tickets.

I guarantee you he's going to be there to watch the show. INVESTIGATION INTO PARTISAN ACTIVITIES RELATING TO MULTICULTURAL OUTREACH STRATEGY L. Krog: British Columbians are rightly concerned about the investigation of the quick-wins scandal. It's an increasingly secretive government, which the Privacy Commissioner frankly pointed out — one that refuses to commit anything to offi cial channels so as to avoid scru- tiny. Th e scandal reaches from government to caucus to the B.C. Liberal Party, and it includes such people as Mr. Bonney and Ms. Haakstad, who left government.

Will the Premier acknowledge that the investigation

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13305 as laid out does not go far enough and appoint a truly independent investigator to get to the bottom of this whole sordid mess? [1420] Hon. C. Clark: I am happy to answer this question again for the member, as I did yesterday. Th e answer is this. Th e most senior person that was involved in this has resigned without severance. Th ere is a review underway by a highly respected civil servant. Th at review includes other deputy ministers across government. We will see the results of that review, I hope, in a mat- ter of days.

When we see the results of that review, we will take action. Th e ideas expressed in that document were wrong. But I will say this. I do not think that there is anything wrong with the idea of reaching out to multicultural commun- ities. I do not think that there is anything wrong with ensuring that every citizen has equal access to their own government. Th e document that was created to try and meet that end was wrong. Th at is why the deputy is looking into it, reviewing it. We will have the results of that review very soon. Mr. Speaker: Th e member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: It's not quite as soon as the Deputy Premier promised last week, when he talked about 24 hours for the review to be completed and available. We know that the quick-wins scandal involves the Premier's offi ce. Her deputy chief of staff already lost her job, director of research and others have been involved in the discussions of the scheme, yet the Premier herself seems intimately aware of the details of the investigation. She told us yesterday that she knew that Ms. Haakstad had been questioned by Mr. Dyble.

Th e fact that the Premier, whose offi ce should be a target of this investiga- tion, is aware of the details tells us that the investigation lacks even the pretence of independence. My question is to the Attorney General. Will she step in and ensure that a full, thorough, independent and im- partial investigation is conducted so that we can get to the bottom of this scandal? Hon. C. Clark: We will get to the bottom of it.

Th at's why my deputy chief of staff has quit without severance, and that is why I have asked the head of the civil service, John Dyble, to convene a committee of senior deputies to make sure we understand what happened so that we can correct it — so that we can be accountable for it, take responsibility for it and make sure that we fi x it. But I will say this again: I do not think that the idea of reaching out to multicultural communities is wrong.

I do not think it is the wrong thing to do to make sure that everyone in our society, no matter where they come from, no matter what language they speak, is included in our democratic process. Th at's the right thing for gov- ernment to do. In an increasingly multicultural society we need to make sure everyone has a chance to have their say, and I think government needs to reach out to make sure that that happens. GRADUATED LICENSING FOR MOTORCYCLES K. Corrigan: Two years ago the Motor Vehicle Amendment Act was passed, giving government the abil- ity to bring in a graduated licensing system for motorcyc- lists.

Last year this government brought in helmet laws and seating regulations and told us it intended to move forward with graduated licensing that would restrict new drivers from buying high-powered bikes. As another legislative session draws to a close, what has the government done to keep the promise of graduated licensing for motorcycles? Hon. S. Bond: As the member opposite would know, we worked very closely with motorcycle organizations across the province, we met with parents across this prov- ince who had tragically lost children and were deeply im- pacted by that.

We did make changes to helmet laws in the province, and we continue to do the work necessary to make the changes that we committed to. Th ere are a number of things that need to take place — in particular, at ICBC. We are working to make sure that we can make a transition as quickly as possible. We are not in the position to do that today, but we continue to work on the commitment we made, recognizing that public safety and dealing with the issue of safe motor- cycle behaviour is absolutely critical. [1425] Mr. Speaker: Th e member has a supplemental. K.

Corrigan: It has been two years since the act passed and a year — April 2012 — since this government held a press conference announcing that these changes, in- cluding graduated licences, would soon be in place. But here we are nearly a year later, and graduating licences have apparently slipped from the government agenda. Th is government has been too busy campaigning instead of governing. Th ey refused to hold a fall session where this legislation, these changes, could have been brought forward. Will the Public Safety Minister tell us….

If this gov- ernment commitment to motorcycle safety goes beyond photo ops and vague promises with long timelines, why has it stalled when it comes to graduated licensing that could save lives?

British Columbia Debates13306 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 Hon. S. Bond: Every member of this House is con- cerned when young people die on high-powered motor- cycles. To suggest that making changes to helmet laws and looking at graduated licensing programs are a mere photo op — that is just simply off ensive.

I stood in this House, and I said to the member opposite: "We are con- tinuing to put in place a regime that will make that hap- pen." It has taken longer than we expected, but to suggest for a moment that we met with parents, that we made hel- met law changes and that we don't care about the safety of British Columbians is off ensive at best and inaccurate. R. Austin: In 2005 Denise Lodge's 21-year-old son, Corey, was killed only a day aft er purchasing a high- powered motorcycle. In the 7½ years since then, Ms. Lodge has lobbied tirelessly for motorcycle safety.

She has supported this government as they have made promises about meaningful changes. Last spring Ms. Lodge was here at the Legislature when this minister told British Columbians that the government was plan- ning to implement a graduated licensing program and it would be in place by the next spring. Again, will the minister please tell us when this govern- ment will fi nally bring in the legislation that could have saved Corey's life? Hon. S. Bond: Th ere are few issues or meetings that are as diffi cult as ones that are held with the families of people who have lost their children. I've stood in this House.

We remain committed to bringing the regime into place. Th ere are changes that are required at ICBC in order to make that transition occur. We continue to press the agenda, and we continue to consider it a priority. I have met with the Lodge family on numerous oc- casions and other families that have suff ered tragic loss. Th at's why we agreed to move forward with helmet laws, and we'll continue to press to make the changes neces- sary to deal with graduated licensing in British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: Th e member has a supplemental. R. Austin: Last month Ms.

Lodge received a letter advising her that aft er 7½ years of campaigning, this government has shelved its plans to implement the graduated licensing program she has been fi ghting for. Th e letter suggests that the implementation of this idea has been complicated and tells this grieving mother that it no longer has any timelines to off er her. Needless to say, Miss Lodge is deeply disappointed by this change of heart. It has been 7½ years since Corey's death, and this government still cannot commit to bringing in changes that could save the lives of young people like him.

Will the minister responsible please tell Ms. Lodge when she can expect to see this life-saving legislation put into place? [1430] Hon. S. Bond: I have made it clear that we intend to proceed with graduated licensing. For the member op- posite to stand up and take advantage of a situation where a family has suff ered grief and loss, when we have met with them in person, when we have shared our sorrows and concerns for British Columbians who have lost loved ones…. We intend to continue to put the graduated li- censing plan in place.

As I said to the member opposite and others who chose to repeat the question, it has taken us, regrettably, longer than we anticipated. Th ere is no intention to back away from that commitment, and I am very sorry if Mrs. Lodge and her family have been led to believe that that is the case. Th at is not accurate. We intend to proceed, and we are continuing to do the important work necessary to bring it into place. INCLUSION OF FINANCIAL INSTRUMENTS IN GOVERNMENT ASSET SALE B. Ralston: Financial instruments owned by the gov- ernment are a revenue-generating asset and are not sur- plus properties.

In last year's budget — that's the 2012 budget — the Liberal government fi rst set out its plan to hold a fi re sale of public assets in order to pad the pre- election budget. At no time since then has this minister or a previous minister ever made a reference to surplus assets as anything other than real estate. Th is year's budget document specifi cally says the assets for sale are surplus property. But thanks to the sharp eyes of a Vancouver Sun reporter in the lockup…. He noticed a disparity between two graphs and asked a Finance de- partment offi cial what that disparity was.

It became ap- parent that there was something else on off er in the sale of assets — that is, fi nancial instruments. Why did the Minister of Finance, in presenting the budget, in every public appearance before and since — until this was pointed out by that reporter — attempt to hide the fact that fi nancial instruments are for sale as well? Hon. M. de Jong: To the hon. member: it would be an interesting question and a valid observation if it were true. Regrettably, it is not.

Th at's perhaps not the mem- ber's fault, because whilst he was in a separate lockup, he wasn't at the one at the convention centre where I point- edly and specifi cally said that this amount of money re- lates to property and fi nancial instruments and went on to explain that I was limited as to what I could say, spe- cifi cally, about those fi nancial instruments. Th e member would have the House believe that some- how I was trying to keep something secret. I suppose, except for me and 200 journalists and 200 other people that I specifi cally referred fi nancial instruments to…. I

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13307 guess in that circumstance I did. But they heard it, others heard it, and I'm sorry that the hon. member didn't hear it. I'm sorry he didn't comment on it when we had the budget debate. [End of question period.] Petitions D. Th orne: I'd like to present a petition signed by 2,215 people from the Riverview Preservation Society that we save all remaining Riverview lands in perpetuity for the use and treatment of the people of B.C. with mental ill- ness and addictions. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call committee stage debate on Bill 4.

For the information of members, if and when that is completed this aft ernoon, thereaft er, committee stage debate on Bill 5. [1435] Committee of the Whole House BILL 4 — TLA'AMIN FINAL AGREEMENT ACT Th e House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 4; L. Reid in the chair. Th e committee met at 2:38 p.m. Hon. I.

Chong: Before we begin, I would like to intro- duce staff who are with me here this aft ernoon — to my right, my deputy minister in the ministry, Steve Munro; to my left , Cory Hererra, who is the senior negotiator also in our ministry; and then to her left Mark Timmis, who is legal counsel from the Ministry of Justice. On

section 1. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister and her staff for be- ing here. I have a couple of questions just on defi nitions, if I could put them to the minister. I would note on the def- initions of the ownership, talking about the Tla'amin Nation's ownership of land…. I note that in previous treaties, both Y ale and Maa-nulth.… In the Agricultural Land Reserve section, there's a section (3) in the Tla'amin treaty where none exists in the Y ale and the Maa-nulth. Can the minister comment? I'm trying to read this cor- rectly. I think I have it correct.

Th e Chair: Minister, he's referencing the defi nitions section. [1440] Hon. I. Chong: Hon. Chair, we're just looking for it, because with that section…. It's

section 9, so am I to ask the member whether he is approving sections 1 through 8, and we are on

section 9? Sections 1 to 8 inclusive approved. On

section 9. S. Fraser: In the Agricultural Land Reserve

section there's a section (3). It says: "Despite

section 2 of the Agricultural Land Commission Act,

section 21 of that Act does not apply in relation to a subdivision plan of Tla'amin Lands deposited in the land title offi ce on the Eff ective Date for the purposes of registering those lands in the name of the Tla'amin Nation." Th at

section does not exist…. No

section like it exists in Y ale or Maa-nulth. Now, in Maa-nulth, to be fair, there was no agricultural land component, so I guess the com- parison would be to the Y ale treaty. Th ere are sections (1) and (2). Th ey're identical with both Y ale and Tla'amin, but section (3), under the Tla'amin treaty here in

section 9, does not exist under Y ale. Could the minister just clarify what that means? It might be obvious, but it's not to me. Hon. I. Chong: My apologies. I just want it to be very clear that it can be somewhat technical in this regard. Perhaps I'll just explain to the member in this way. Th ere are certain land parcels currently in the agricul- tural land reserve, the ALR. Th ey will become Tla'amin lands on the eff ective date.

Chapter 3, "Lands," paragraph 30 of the fi nal agreement, defi nes those lands as "Former Agricultural Land Reserve" and "Current Agricultural Land Reserve." Th e former agricultural land reserve consists of the former Tla'amin Indian reserve lands, which are just over 1,900 hectares, and the former provincial Crown ALR land, which is 471 hectares. On the eff ective date these lands will not be part of the ALR. Th is is what has been agreed to. [1445] S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. I think I understand that, although there was a component….

Can the minister confi rm that this would just apply for the 400-plus hectares involved, the portion that's being removed from the agricultural land reserve as part of this treaty? Hon. I. Chong: Approximately 744 hectares of provin- cial Crown land currently in the ALR will become treaty land. Approximately 471 hectares of the 744 hectares will be removed from the ALR, with the remaining 273 hec- tares staying in the ALR.

British Columbia Debates13308 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. Th at helps clarify. I'd like to ask the question of…. During the negotia- tions for this land, for the portion that was removed from the agricultural land reserve to facilitate treaty, was there any conversation…? Is it part of the negotiations to con- sider, from the government's point of view, to compen- sate that land with, maybe, other land being placed in the ALR — considering that the commission has a role to try to maintain a certain critical mass of agricultural land?

I'm just wondering if that's been part of the discussion during the negotiations or even outside of those negotia- tions, maybe through various agencies of government. Hon. I. Chong: First, I should advise the member — and I think he does know this — that when lands are removed from the ALR, there is no requirement to re- place. However, having said that, the lands that are being removed from the ALR were not farmed lands as such. Th ey actually were forest lands. As I say, as a result of ne- gotiations that take place, that determination was made as to what lands could or should be removed. S.

Fraser: I'm not trying to belabour this point. I'm aware that the commission…. The act itself dealing with agricultural land is superseded, certainly, by treaty. Regardless of whether the land is specifi cally arable land or such, it's still a reduction in the overall footprint in the agricultural land reserve. So just for clarifi cation, during treaty…. We've seen agricultural land removed before in previ- ous treaties. Certainly, Tsawwassen comes to mind spe- cifi cally. I realize that that's appropriate, that the treaty addresses that.

But is the minister aware of any dis- cussions, maybe with other ministries associated with agricultural land, where there is consideration to try to ensure that the land mass does not continually shrink in the agricultural land reserve? I realize this might be out- side the purview of the minister. I'm just asking if she's aware of anything. Hon. I. Chong: No.

Section 9 approved. On

section 10. S. Fraser: I'm just a little confused on the wording of this section, "Tla'amin Nation participation in regional hospital district." It is somewhat diff erent than the word- ing within the Maa-nulth treaty. Th ere were issues. I know that the Maa-nulth treaty is dealing with fi ve nations, and there are some complex- ities around the role of the regional district and the na- tions in the Maa-nulth treaty that would be involved with the regional district. Could the minister just help me and give an explana- tion of the exact meaning of

section 10, what its intent is, please? [1450] Hon. I. Chong: Perhaps the member will recall, from his days on local government, the connection, with re- spect to…. When you are a member of a regional district, you are automatically a member of the regional hospital district as well. However, in this particular case, it is somewhat diff er- ent. A First Nation that becomes a member of a region- al district is automatically represented on the regional hospital board by virtue of the regional district mem- bership. Th is

section is required because the Tla'amin fi nal agreement does not require the Tla'amin Nation to join the regional district. Th erefore, the fi nal agreement must provide for them to participate in the regional hos- pital district. I think the member will understand — as I say, with his involvement in local government — what that really, truly, technically means. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. Sorry. Th e wording on this is sometimes confusing, and I appreciate the indulgence of the minister and her staff .

With that participation on the hospital board, are there taxation implications that go along with that? Th e role of a board membership usually involves some form of contribution through taxation or whatever. It doesn't say specifi cally here, but can the minister inform, please? Hon. I.

Chong: I'm trusting, and I make this clarifi - cation for the member, that participation in the regional hospital district is mandatory, so that residents on treaty lands paying hospital district property tax do have rep- resentation on the hospital district board. in essence, those who are residents — occupiers of the land who will be paying property tax — will in fact have those taxes paid to the hospital district board for First Nations occupiers on those lands. If, in fact, they wish to have that directly charged to the owners and then have that requisitioned to the hospital district, it can happen.

Or the First Nation themselves can make that determin- ation, whether they will provide for that requisition to the hospital district board. But in any event, there will be funds that are required or requisitioned to the dis- trict board. N. Simons: My question is to the minister about what, perhaps, could delay letters patent from being amend- ed. Is that something that is anticipated, or is this just a perfunctory kind of

section where it's just in case? Maybe the Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development could enlighten us.

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13309 Hon. I. Chong: Th ere is no expectation that there would be a delay on amendment changes to the letters patent. But I would say, because the professional staff here want to anticipate every possible occurrence, that they have ensured that this

section would allow for this to take place immediately, without delay. [1455] S. Fraser: Is there a structure or an order-in-council, an OIC, that's anticipated and that would bring the Tla'amin into the district for this purpose? What's the mechanism? If the minister could inform…. Hon. I. Chong: I believe the letters patent itself would be provided to include that. As I say, letters patent would be amended, and if there were a delay, it would be deemed amended forthwith. S.

Fraser: If I could just follow up on this a bit, if the letters patent is the structure that's used for this purpose, when would that occur? Th is has to get through this House. It also has to go to the federal Parliament. Would the letters patent apply with ratifi cation of this bill here in the Legislature, or is it aft er it's hopefully ratifi ed in Ottawa? Hon. I. Chong: As the member will likely know, as he's participated in these debates with other agreements, there will be parties that have to agree on the eff ective date, which is when the implementation of the treaty would then take place.

Upon that date, that's when the treaty would therefore be implemented, and the letters patent at that time would likely be a part of the agree- ment going forward. But it is similar to other agreements where parties are aff orded the opportunity to agree as to when the eff ective date will be. It could be a year. It could be two. Generally, we have seen that it has taken two years, as with Tsawwassen when it was ratifi ed in 2007. Th e implementation eff ect- ive date, I think, was 2009, so it did take two years. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister.

Just so I have it cor- rect, the letters patent would be enabled as a tripartite agreement. Th e federal government has to ratify this, so it would be in the implementation of the treaty that a date would be approved for the letters patent to apply in this case? Hon. I. Chong: I'm sorry if I have confused the mem- ber. What happens is that upon the passage of this legis- lation…. He knows that the federal government will also have to pass their legislation, aft er which time each party will work towards when all the aspects of the treaty and the fi nal agreement can be put in place.

Th ey would agree to, based on the time that they require, the eff ective date of which, then, the treaty would be implemented and therefore come into reality. Sections 10 and 11 approved. On

section 12. S. Fraser: Does the Tla'amin Nation have the authority under

section 12 to make laws for the direct taxation of non–Sea Island citizens living on Tla'amin lands? I guess that's the fi rst question. Point of Order N. Simons: Th is debate refl ects concerns in my con- stituency. Every member of this House represents people in this province. I'm just wondering if there's a rule or some ruling about whether or not a member of this House should be listening to noise-suppression devices while a debate on a First Nation treaty is taking place. [1500] Th e Chair: I thank the member for his point of order. We will take the issue under advisement. Debate Continued Hon. I.

Chong: Again, I would say that this agreement is similar to the Y ale and Maa-nulth fi nal agreements. Th ey have similar provisions. Th is is not about direct taxation. It is about having a

section that deals with a tax treatment agreement that sets out and lays out how the Tla'amin Nation, Canada and British Columbia enter into that agreement on an eff ective date. It addresses the treat- ment of the Tla'amin Nation under various taxes, which include income taxes, sales and other consumption taxes, but it's not an ability for direct taxation as such. S. Fraser: I think I got that. For clarifi cation,

section 12 does not provide the Sliammon Nation with the author- ity to make laws for direct taxation. Th at's not the intent. Did I misread this? Th e questions have come to me about whether or not this would enable taxation to occur for non-Sliammon members that would happen to be living within the treaty lands. Th at may or may not happen. It's a hypothetical situation, I suppose, so just more clarity if I could. Hon. I. Chong: Perhaps the best way to clarify sec- tion 12 for the member is that this

section provides for the Tla'amin Nation, the government, to be treated in a similar fashion to other local governments. Other local governments are not taxed by provincial governments and the federal government, and it would be the same tax treatment. If there were taxes that the federal or prov- incial governments levied on local governments, so, too, would that tax treatment be applicable to Tla'amin, be-

British Columbia Debates13310 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 cause they would be another level of government. Th e area that the member is referring to is for the Tla'amin Nation for dealing with taxation of their mem- bers, their residents. Th at is dealt with in the treaty in other sections. [1505] S. Fraser: If there are non–Sliammon First Nations who are residents within the treaty area and there are tax implications, could they apply to non–Sliammon First Nations? I apologize again if the minister has an- swered that question already. I just haven't quite got my head around this. Hon. I.

Chong: Th is is about the taxing parts of the government, the Tla'amin Nation, with respect to its re- lationships with other jurisdictions, other senior levels of government — not unlike what local governments are. As I say, this is about the tax treatment of the Tla'amin Nation. With respect to the taxation of members and non- Tla'amin members, that is dealt with in other sections in the treaty. Th ose are negotiations that still take place with Canada and the provincial government.

Likely there will be a negotiation to develop or provide for some con- tractual agreements specifi cally for those, especially non- member residents. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister. I got it this time, I think. So this would be at a later date, presumably aft er the implementation of the treaty has begun, aft er it's gone through the federal parliament. I'm getting nods here. If I could just get a confi rmation on the record, that would be great. Hon. I.

Chong: Th at is correct, and that's why imple- mentation or the eff ective date is sometimes years away, because all the parties have to agree to fulfi l particular obligations that they have, and that could certainly be one of those. N. Simons: My question has to do with when a tax treatment agreement is not a tax treatment agreement, or not part of the act. Here in

section 4, as provided in paragraph 82 of chap- ter 2 of the Tla'amin fi nal agreement, the tax treatment agreement does not form part of the fi nal agreement. Where is its legislative authority, then, if not in the fi nal agreement? [1510] Hon. I. Chong: I'm trying to make this clear for every- body who's interested in

section 12. A treaty does require a tax treaty agreement, but outside the treaty, that's set- ting out how a First Nation government is in fact taxed. It therefore allows it to be changed in the event that taxes are changed. Th at's why it's not a treaty or a land claims agreement. It is an agreement that allows and sets out the fact that there is an agreement that sets out how the First Nations government is to be taxed. I know that it may appear complicated, but it is about the First Nation government, and it's similar to what has been done for Y ale and Tsawwassen.

Section 12 approved. On

section 13. S. Fraser: I'd like to thank your deputy and his staff for the briefi ng that the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast and myself were able to attend. I just wanted to get that on the record. Although it might not seem that we've been briefed, we have been briefed. I'm sorry. We're go- ing over some of this stuff again, and new questions have come up in the meantime. Actually, for those watching, we're looking for clarifi cation on record for questions that have been put to me, as critic. I want to make sure that people understand that. In the ministry briefi ng there was a comment on this

section 13 that "we're waiting for the Cohen decision" regarding the fi sh farms. Th at was discussed in a recent briefi ng. Can the minister inform us as to the purpose of wait- ing for Cohen? How's that going to play out? Hon. I. Chong: Perhaps the best way to provide clari- fi cation for the member is to advise that the negotia- tions for the Tla'amin fi nal agreement had begun prior to Cohen.

Th erefore, Canada agreed that the Tla'amin could include fi sh because the provisions were agreed to before Cohen began — as opposed to what has oc- curred with others, who were not able to negotiate that until Cohen was complete. But this was occurring prior to Cohen having been initiated. S. Fraser: So I have this clear, the recommendations to be coming out of the Cohen inquiry on the Fraser River sockeye…. Th ey will, at a later date, inform this

section 13 on the harvest documents? Did I get that wrong or get that right? [1515] Hon. I. Chong: I think what's confusing is that with Cohen in process, the diffi culty was that no one was able to negotiate the matters concerning fi sh. Th erefore, it meant that we could not proceed in getting the fi nal agreement to this stage. I guess that's the best way to de- scribe it. We wanted to be able to continue to proceed with get- ting the fi nal agreement, and Canada agreed that we

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13311 could continue to do that outside of Cohen until Cohen was complete. Now that Cohen has been completed, we will now be in a position to negotiate fi sh. If we had had to wait to negotiate, we would not be here with this agree- ment now. S. Fraser: Thanks to the minister for that. As the minister noted, the waters bounding the Sliammon ter- ritory…. I've looked at the maps. Th ey're very close, if not right on some of the Fraser River sockeye migra- tion routes.

Of course, there are other shellfi sh and other marine species, too, that make their homes within the Sliammon territory. Th e fi nal decision of the Cohen Commission — did it infl uence the fi sheries or any other part of the treaty, or will it? I guess that's the other piece of that. Hon. I. Chong: Again, this treaty was negotiated be- fore the Cohen report, and as a result there had been some allocations, fi sh allocations, for Tla'amin. Again, Canada had agreed that we were able to continue to move forward and, I guess, accept those fi sh allocations as op- posed to waiting until Cohen was complete.

As a result of this treaty being negotiated before Cohen, and now that the report has been provided for, we don't see anything in the Cohen Commission, in their recom- mendations, that would confl ict with what had been with the negotiated agreement in terms of the allocation. Had we waited, it might have meant that we would have to negotiate these amounts of fish allocations. Canada essentially gave us the opportunity to continue on. Now that Cohen is out, the negotiated allocations would likely stand, because we don't see anything in those recommendations that would not permit for that to happen.

We've in essence been able to continue to move along and have this treaty get to this stage today. S. Fraser: Th is is an important issue, so I'm just try- ing to…. It's wise to move this along. Th ere is the Cohen inquiry, and there are other issues that come up all the time. Certainly on the federal mandate, fi sheries are oft en a roadblock to proceeding with treaties. I get all that, but am I clear? Have there been fi rm allocations made now that will not change, regardless of Cohen? Is this is all done? When this goes through the federal Parliament, the allocations will stand.

Th ese discussions are not to be reopened because of Cohen or any other reasons. Hon. I. Chong: Y es, I am advised that the fi sh negotia- tions at Tla'amin are now complete. S. Fraser: Th anks for that clarifi cation. On the licences, though, are these licences purchased from Canada or from the open market? How does that come about for that allocation for the licences? [1520] Hon. I. Chong: Canada issues all licences that are needed. We don't, as a province, issue those licences. S. Fraser: I didn't see it in here, but for what fi sheries in particular? Hon. I. Chong: I'm advised that it's in the treaty.

For the benefi t of the member, the allocations for chinook salmon, coho salmon, chum salmon, sockeye salmon, pink salmon, rockfi sh and ling cod, other groundfi sh, herring, prawn and crab, and sea cucumbers. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. Was there any provision made specifi cally for aquaculture — shell- fi sh or fi nfi sh? Hon. I. Chong: Again, I'm advised that only the Tla'amin Nation may apply to the Crown for shellfi sh aquaculture tenures, in respect of the foreshore of the Ahgykson. S. Fraser: Th ank you to the minister for that.

With current changes in legislation based on court decisions…. Which Crown are we talking about here? Th ere is a signifi cant role now that is being taken by the federal government in aquaculture that wasn't before. It was under the purview of the province. Now really the only role for the province is the actual letting of the ten- ure, the water lease or whatever. [1525] I guess a couple of questions. Th e Tla'amin — will they apply to the province if they wish to set up a lease, or can they govern that themselves?

Th ere's a federal compon- ent to this, but I'll just leave that question and wait for the answer. Hon. I. Chong: When the member asked about the tenures, I wanted to respond that the aquaculture tenures which Tla'amin Nation can apply for would be directed to the federal government, when I referred to the Crown. Th e aquaculture tenures would have to be applied to the federal government as the Crown. However, to re- quest a foreshore lease or licence, that would still be under provincial jurisdiction. S.

Fraser: If you want to be an aquaculturalist in the province — if you want to set up an oyster farm, for in- stance — there are a whole bunch of referral agencies. Th e applicant has to spend a fair amount of money. Th ey have to advertise in the Gazette federally. Th ere are a number of requirements that go along with that. Would all those requirements be applied to the Tla'amin Nation post-treaty? Would they have to still do all that? Hon. I. Chong: Y es.

British Columbia Debates13312 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 S. Fraser: Then the fees associated with the tenur- ing — the lease agreements, those sorts of things. Th ere are annual fees that go along with that too. Th en there's reporting-out requirements for fi sh farms that have to report out about disease outbreaks and that. Do the fees go…? Are they required, fi rst of all, for lease fees, tenure fees, and are there the same requirements for monitor- ing and such? Hon. I. Chong: Th e answer is yes, in accordance with federal and provincial laws and procedures. N.

Simons: My question has to do with marine pro- tected areas, such as rockfi sh conservation zones and the like. Does the Tla'amin First Nation have any authority to establish such protected areas, and what is the impact of the existing ones within the Tla'amin traditional ter- ritory? Hon. I. Chong: The Tla'amin Nation — their abil- ity to protect would be on treaty settlement lands. Th ey can make determinations as to what parts of their treaty settlement lands they wish to provide protection for. Th at is the authority that they have. N.

Simons: Is that something that the Tla'amin First Nation can do without consultation or on their own in- itiative, or does that require some sort of dialogue with the federal-provincial government? [1530] Hon. I. Chong: Because treaty settlement lands will be lands that are governed by that jurisdiction, that be- ing the Tla'amin Nation, they will have the right to de- termine what parts of their lands they wish to protect, not unlike what we do can do here in British Columbia when we designate parts of our province which we wish to protect.

Tla'amin will also be given the opportunity or have the ability to protect certain areas within Tla'amin treaty settlement lands. N. Simons: If, for example, the occasion arose that the federal government embarked on some strategy to protect certain fi sheries areas, if they were interested in doing so within the traditional territory — on treaty settlement lands, I guess — is there a mechanism through which the parties will negotiate and potentially cooper- ate on in terms of designating these areas? Hon. I.

Chong: Again, I'm advised that Canada must consult with Tla'amin if their proposed action would, in fact, aff ect the Tla'amin treaty rights. So there is an obli- gation to consult if, in fact, any actions that the federal government were to take would aff ect their treaty rights. S. Fraser: Th anks for the answers on this. Is there any provision…? Is there a mechanism for a non-Tla'amin proponent to apply for water lease tenures within the treaty settlement lands? Is that something that has been perceived or even considered? Is that possible? Is there a mechanism for that? [D.

Black in the chair.] Th e Chair: Minister. Hon. I. Chong: Th ank you and welcome, hon. Chair. Th rough you to the member, I'm trying to envision where he's trying to seek clarifi cation, so I'm hoping I respond appropriately. Th ere is no obligation for Tla'amin to pro- vide tenures on its treaty lands. It may if it chooses, but there is no obligation for them to do so. [1535]

Section 13 approved. On

section 14. S. Fraser: Now we've moved into the Forest Act ten- ures

section of the treaty. Is the approach taken with these tenures, the Forest Act tenures, comparable to past treat- ies under the B.C. treaty process? Hon. I. Chong: Y es, it's the same policy as all previ- ous treaties. S. Fraser: Is it anticipated this will be a smooth tran- sition? For example, are there concerns of, maybe, dis- putes arising from other holders of referred agreements? Should this move pretty smoothly? Has there been any discussion of confl icts or anything like that? Hon. I. Chong: To the member, who is asking whether this could be a smooth transition, I would submit that it should be, yes.

Th e impacted third parties have all been consulted, so we do expect to be able to move this fairly quickly along. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. Will the annual allowable cut…? Is this a determina- tion, from here on in, within the nation? Is there a chief forester that does this? For the record, how is that, then, determined? Hon. I. Chong: Once the treaty does take eff ect the Tla'amin First Nation decides on the annual allowable cut on their treaty settlement lands. S. Fraser: Th e Crown, the province, has the authority over forest lands in British Columbia.

Is that authority now ceded to the Tla'amin Nation in total? I guess, an-

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13313 swer that question if you can, and then I'll go on to an- other question. Hon. I. Chong: Y es, on treaty lands. S. Fraser: Anticipating…. In this House we have a bill before us — Bill 8, I guess, is the number. It's dealing with a potentially signifi cant change to forestry in British Columbia. It's allowing some pretty big powers to the minister to convert volume-based tenures over to area- based. Th at's one of many changes that are being brought forward in a bill that's before us right now. I don't know whether we'll get to it or not. [1540] Does

an act like that…? Would it have any impact on the forestry agreement within the treaty? Hon. I. Chong: No, it wouldn't. S. Fraser: In the future, if the province makes chan- ges to forestry acts, if new science comes out, is there a provision…? If the province wants to bring in a new policy that will create healthier forests in some way in the province, is there a provision through the treaty to work government-to-government to deal with that, or is that just dealt with separately, then? I guess I'm wondering: is it now siloed?

Will each na- tion have total autonomy over forest policy throughout the province and provincial policy not apply at all? I'm just wondering: are we going to end up with a patchwork of forest policies throughout the province that might make it diffi cult to have an overarching plan? Hon. I. Chong: To the member, I suspect he under- stands that treaty settlement lands…. Once the treaty comes into eff ect and treaty settlement lands are estab- lished, in this particular case with the Tla'amin Nation, those lands will be lands owned by the Tla'amin Nation. Th ey will be treated like private lands.

To that extent, if private land owners are permitted to have whatever poli- cies they wish, so too would the Tla'amin Nation, because it is treated like private land. However, there are always provisions to provide or to off er and have a healthy exchange of information, espe- cially when it comes to forest health. I would expect that if there are issues regarding forest health, the Tla'amin Nation would want to seek provincial guidance and in- formation, and the province would, I would expect, want to provide that information to ensure that we do have a healthy forest. S.

Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. I guess, I mean…. In some instances there are provisions made on Crown land for silviculture and replanting and that sort of thing so that we have the forests forever. Were there any provisions made within the treaty as the lands are…? I understand that they are turned over fee simple. Th at's part of the agreement. Th ey're essentially private lands, so the Tla'amin people can do as they see right on the land. But is there any potential to apply to the province for assistance? Was there any consideration in the negotia- tions if…?

A part of a forestry plan in the province now usually includes provisions for replanting, for silviculture, so that you can have that rotation. Were there any provi- sions put into the treaty for that, or was that negotiation not considered? Hon. I. Chong: Again, I want to stress that treaty settlement lands will be treated as private lands. [1545] The Tla'amin First Nation will have jurisdiction. Obviously, in areas of forest health and things like fi re suppression, there is, I would expect, an obligation to discuss and ensure that those policies are well respect- ed and useful.

But at the end of the day, as the member has acknowledged, these are lands which are fee simple, which will be available to the Tla'amin Nation to man- age as they feel they should, because they will be deemed to be private lands. S. Fraser: Th ere will be a question from the member for Cariboo North on the forestry issues. I'd like to thank the minister for that clarifi cation. She did mention fi re suppression. Again, there are recom- mendations that have been made for communities in the province. Th ere's the previous Filmon report, following some pretty devastating wildfi res on the land base.

Again, are there provisions, anything anticipated with- in the treaty or any resources that the province would be able to bring to bear to deal with risk zones for forest fi res, wildfi res and such? If a wildfi re were to occur in or near Tla'amin territory, is there any kind of global budget that can be accessed to address those risks to the community? Hon. I. Chong: With respect to wildfire suppres- sion and control, on the eff ective date the parties will be required to enter into a wildfi re suppression agree- ment.

Th at will set out how the cost incurred by British Columbia for wildfi re control on Tla'amin lands — for wildfires that originate on Tla'amin lands — will be shared by British Columbia, Canada and the Tla'amin Nation. Th ere will be an agreement, and they will set out those parameters and the costs associated with it. Th at's to take place on the eff ective date. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for that. Th at clarifi - cation was very helpful.

Just one last question from me on this forestry issue — before I turn it over to the member for Cariboo North — on the value of the land, the tim- ber value of the land. For those watching, the compensation in the treaty is

British Columbia Debates13314 Tuesday, March 5, 2013 in a tripartite agreement. Th e land portion is from the province. Th e federal government is responsible for es- sentially matching dollars to the value of the land. So it's based on, to some extent, the resources on the land. How signifi cant was the forestry value in the calcula- tion of the amount of land that was designated through treaty — and, of course, the compensation, the cash com- ponent from the federal government? [1550] Hon. I. Chong: Th e province provided about 6,406 hectares of land, and I think that's in the agreement the member will see.

In so doing, we did certainly con- sider the forestry value on the land. Therefore, as a consequence, Canada, through negotiations, made a de- termination and is contributing just over $45½ million to provide their matching share. S. Fraser: A follow-up on that. Th ank you for the an- swer, but is that based on a formula — the value of hem- lock at the day on the open market? How is that forest value, the value of the land, determined under the treaty formula — in this case, with the Tla'amin First Nation? Hon. I.

Chong: To the member, I guess the short an- swer is that there is no formula, because these are, as he can appreciate, treaty negotiations that occur around the province in many tables that are happening. If you try to establish a formula, it would have to take into considera- tion a variety of factors. On that basis, when the parties come to negotiate, cer- tainly they do consider the local situation. Th ey take a look at the availability of land, take a look at whatever op- portunities are available.

Obviously, lands in urban areas are diff erent than lands in more rural-remote areas, and the availability of land in the more rural-remote areas is very diff erent than those in the urban lands. So there isn't a formula that negotiators have when they walk into a room and when they start discussing. Th ey take a look at a variety of factors. Based on that, the value is then determined, which all parties would then agree to. Th at's how the determination is then made. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister for this.

I have had questions raised, so for those watching this, for clarity, the timber value of the land has an impact on the amount of land. If the timber has a high value on the land, presumably a smaller footprint of land would be made available. If the timber values on the land were relatively low, the footprint could be larger on the land. I realize there might be other values — mining or whatever — but if we're just talking about this one re- source, there is a direct impact on the value of the size of the land portion of the settlement and the value of the resources on the land, including the timber.

Just for clar- ity, am I correct there? Hon. I. Chong: Y es, those are defi nitely factors that are all considered. B. Simpson: Some questions on

part 14, the sections from 7 on, with respect to pre-existing licensees in the interest area. Having not seen maps for this, I wonder if the minister could inform us if there are any tree farm licences being impinged and if there are any replaceable forest licences being impinged as a result of this treaty settlement. [1555] Hon. I. Chong: I'm advised that there was only one forest-harvesting tenure that needed to be dealt with, with respect to this treaty. Th erefore, a portion of the tree forest licence, TFL 39, will become the Tla'amin lands.

Through the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations…. Th ey will be the ministry in dis- cussion with the holders of TFL 39, and they will nego- tiate how to compensate for that. But there was only the one that I'm aware of. I think in the past there have been, but while this treaty was being negotiated, this was the only existing forest licence that was still in place that we needed to accommodate. B. Simpson: In this case, as far as the minister is aware, tree farm licence 39…. I also asked about replaceable forest licences.

Are there any replaceable forest licensees in the timber supply area that will be impinged by this? Hon. I. Chong: I'm advised no. B. Simpson: What area of tree farm licence will be im- pacted? How big is the area, on a proportional basis, to the tree farm itself? Hon. I. Chong: Hon. Chair, we don't have that specifi c calculation or fi gure for the member, but we can certain- ly get that to him, if he is willing to…. We can provide it to him aft er the debate, unless he is wishing to have that now. B.

Simpson: Just for the record, if the gross numbers are there in terms of areas in the timber-harvesting land base that are now going to be removed from the timber- harvesting land base, whether in the timber supply area or tree farm area, what is the actual size of the removal? As the treaty states, they become fee simple lands, and it's important, I think, for British Columbians to under- stand what this does to impinge on the tree farm licence and/or the timber supply area. So what is the area that will be removed from the timber supply available in this particular part of the province? [1600]

British Columbia DebatesTuesday, March 5, 2013 13315 Hon. I. Chong: Sorry for the delay. We're just trying to make sure we have the accurate numbers here. The member may not have heard me earlier in re- sponse to the member for Alberni–Pacifi c Rim when I indicated that in the fi nal agreement, British Columbia provided about 6,406 hectares — just over 6,400 hectares — of land. Of that, a portion of the tree farm licence, TFL 39 — 600 hectares. I'm advised that it represents less than 1 percent of TFL 39. B. Simpson: So some process issues of how this works. TFL 39 is held by Western Forest Products.

It's a rea- sonably large tree farm licence, one of those original ones that appears to have been given in order to get some pri- vate lands under control and the mill built. Th e question that we have in front of us with another bill in front of this House is: what private rights are ac- corded to a particular company when they are given a tree farm licence — a prescribed area of the land base, a map drawn and exclusive rights in that land base? Some of the restrictions that then are imposed on the Crown are the Crown's ability to do things like protect- ed areas, to put other values on top of that land base.

In my area, for example, caribou habitat came aft er a tree farm licence, and it becomes a dialogue between the companies. Th en, of course, treaty. When there are any treaty dis- cussions going on and any treaty lands are expressed as desirable by the First Nations in tree farm licences, then there is a third party that the issues have to be discussed with. From a process perspective, I wonder if the minister could speak to how Western Forest Products was brought into the discussion. When were they brought into the discussion? Have they been brought into the discussion?

Or are these decisions made and then the discussion is had with the company? What's the process of going to a holder of a tree farm licence and saying: "We're thinking about removing some of that tree farm licence in order to settle treaty"? [1605] Hon. I. Chong: To the member, I understand he's seeking clarifi cation with respect to process. I guess, to be fair, this would be a process that would be, generally speaking, followed in what the negotiators…. Th at's why there are negotiators at the table. In this particular case, Western Forest Products has been consulted throughout the negotiations.

I under- stand ten years' worth of discussions have taken place. So they have been advised, have been made aware all along that there would be lands likely from their tree farm li- cence that would be required for the treaty settlement land. Th eir consultation…. Aft er they had been made aware and advised over the course of those past ten years, we have identifi ed those lands. We're now in the discus- sion stage where, in removing that tenure, we're looking at the discussion with respect to providing that compen- sation for them.

For the benefi t of the member, wherever you identify lands that you need to make available for treaties, I would say that clearly the negotiators would know that nobody wants to be surprised at the last moment. Everybody would like to have an opportunity to discuss, to negoti- ate and to even take a look at whether those are the ap- propriate lands or whether the size or amount will do or whether it should be larger. I'm advised that negotiators are, I guess, consistently doing that when they're deal- ing with treaties. B. Simpson: Just for the clarifi cation….

I don't know if anybody is watching this or not, but clarifi cation for Hansard, too, because people do read the record. In any given operating area in the province where treaties are being discussed, there are two diff erent por- tions, if you will, of the timber harvesting land base, which is the Crown's area that they believe is available for companies to cut — get reasonable commercial volume of timber and then take it to processing facilities.

One is tree farm licences — and I do want to come back to the process, then, of dialogue around compen- sation — and the other is what we call the timber sup- ply area. Th e timber supply area is where there is this discussion about volume-based licences being issued as opposed to a tree farm licence, which is a specifi c and exclusive area given to a company to manage, suppos- edly for better forest management into the future, to a

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0305pm-06
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0305pm 06
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ae7ec57dad81acb19c9a67d0e55f9093799301a8

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