Alberta Hansard — 19 March 1973, Afternoon sitting (14:30) (Legislature 17, Session 2)

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Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-959 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Monday, March 19, 1973 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 o'clock.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill No. 2 The Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1973 MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a money bill, being The Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1973. Mr.

Speaker, His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the subject matter of this bill and recommends same to the consideration of the Assembly. [Leave being granted, Bill No. 2 was introduced and read a first time.] head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce to you and through you to the members of the Legislative Assembly a group of students from my constituency of Calgary West. They come from the Ernest Manning High School. [Applause] I met with him in advance and told him that we would get a bit of a response to the nature of the introduction.

They are 22 students who have travelled up from Calgary to visit here in the Legislature Building and in the Capital. They are accompanied by their teachers, Miss Hazel Brown and Mr. Dyck. They are in the public gallery and I would appreciate it if they would rise and be recognized by the members. MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I have great pleasure today in introducing to you and through you to the members of this Assembly 48 Grade 4 students from the Capilano School in the constituency of Edmonton Gold Bar, formerly the constituency of Edmonton Strathcona East, Mr. Ernest Manning's former constituency.

They are accompanied by their teacher, Mrs. Cruikshank, and I would ask that they stand and be acknowledged by the House. MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce to you today and through you to the members of the House some distinguished constituents of mine, Chief John Snow, Chief Frank Kaquitts, Richard Amos, Felix Poucette, Jack Crawler, and Wayne Getty. They are in the members gallery, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask that they rise and be recognized. MR. KING: Mr.

Speaker, if any of the hon. members have ever wondered why my hair is tousled, it is because today I have had to fight for the first time for the right to make an introduction to the hon. members of this Assembly. There are seated in the public gallery, Mr. Speaker, members of the West Edmonton Rotary

23-960 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 Club and, as their name would certainly indicate, they come from almost every constituency inside the City of Edmonton. I think almost every MLA representing the City of Edmonton has come to me today asking whether or not I was going to introduce them, and if not I, could they be allowed to. I would like to introduce them to you, Mr. Speaker, and through you to the members of the Assembly. I would ask that they rise and be recognized. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in introducing a group of 27 Grade 6 students from the constituency of Edmonton Parkallen.

They attend Allendale School in the constituency, and today have had a visit in the building and a tour of the principal features of the building. I hope they have enjoyed their visit very much and that they would now be introduced to you and to the members of the House by rising, along with their teacher, Mrs. Jesten. Would you rise, please? head: FILING RETURNS AND TABLING REPORTS MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I have pleasure in tabling the Returns to Motions for a Return Nos. 118, 119, and 156. MR. FOSTER: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report of the University of Lethbridge, 1971-72. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Local Hospital Boards' Finance MR. HENDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the Minister of Health and Social Development. I wonder if the minister could advise the House, in light of the government's policy to take over 100 per cent of hospital costs, as to whether the prerogative of local hospital boards to raise money by local taxation will be eliminated? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, it is the intention of the government to clarify any of the aspects that, in the minds of some of the municipal councils and hospital boards are not yet clear, as has been mentioned in the House on occasion by my colleague, the Minister of Municipal Affairs. It would be part, though, of any program in regard to the clarification of the taxation rights of the municipalities, and this part of it I'm sure they do understand. For the operating costs of hospitals, the right to requisition is not to continue. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Taber-Warner, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton Norwood.

Southern Alberta Teachers' Strike MR. D. MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the hon. Minister of Manpower and Labour. At what stage are negotiations now with the Southern Alberta Teachers' Association? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, following the mediation talks last week and over the weekend, there was a short recess. Beginning at 2:00 o'clock this afternoon the two parties are continuing to negotiate with the assistance of two members of the mediation staff from the Department of Manpower and Labour.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-961 MR. D. MILLER: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Failing this -- being able to get together and settle the strike -- Mr. Minister, have you given consideration to the urgency for settlement of essential services under The Labour Act? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, being aware of the gravity of the problem, as the hon. member puts it, and being clear on the intentions of sections of the Act to which he refers, one can't help but think in a very real way about all possible contingencies and all possible actions that may or may not be taken.

I will take, however, the view at the present time, that reviewing the situation with respect to the strike over the weekend in some detail, I would anticipate some forward and positive movements with today's negotiations. But certainly any part of any act that has to do with the collective bargaining is constantly a consideration, but not likely in the sense that the gentleman asked the question. MR. GRUENWALD: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Education.

Is there anything to prohibit students in the surrounding areas, particularly the Grade 12s, from attending a school that is not on strike, to keep up their work? For example, do the Grade 12 students around Lethbridge go to school in Lethbridge? MR. HYNDMAN: Mr. Speaker, my recollection of The School Act is that the parents of a student living outside the boundaries of existing jurisdictions may apply to a school board in another jurisdiction. Then it is strictly a matter of the school board to whom the application is made deciding whether or not they would agree to provide services. MR.

GRUENWALD: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Would those school boards then receive per- pupil grants for those students? MR. HYNDMAN: If they came within the regulations under the Act and the regulations under The School Act they would. MR. GRUENWALD: Just one further supplementary. Am I to understand you correctly that they wouldn't have to be ratified by yourself or your department to attend the school? MR. HYNDMAN: That really is a legal opinion, Mr. Speaker.

Offhand, I don't think ratification is required of the department, but a non-resident fee might well be something which the school board to whom the application was made might wish to have under consideration. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton Norwood, followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge West. Air Pollution Index MRS. CHICHAK: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the hon. Minister of the Environment. From first reports there appears to be some question regarding the validity of the air quality index in Edmonton as reported by the department.

Could the minister indicate what accuracy there may be to those reports? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, last year the Department of the Environment began to measure and release to the public what is called an air pollution index both in the city of Edmonton and the city of Calgary. This air pollution index is based on a

23-962 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 formula which utilizes the measured values, at one point only, of four pollutants, these pollutants being total oxidants, oxides of nitrogen, carbon monoxide and something called a coefficient of haze or smoke. I want to say that the department wasn't under any illusion as to what in fact it was measuring at one location, or in fact what it was publishing. This is just an information vehicle indicating the approximate condition of the quality of the air, and it is only measured in one particular point.

When this gets fairly high -- and we indicate that from 0 to 25 is intended to be clean air, from 26 to 50 light air pollution, from 51 to 75 moderate air pollution and 76 to 100 heavy air pollution -- when this value gets up to a certain level, then intensified monitoring is resorted to for any specific component that happens to rise.

As I indicated, the index itself is measured and published for information purposes only and is not indicative of any action that is taken, but it is indicative of alarm to the department to measure other pollutants in a more intensive way, and this is exactly what in fact is done before any action is taken. There has been some concern as to the index published. We have patterned ours on the San Francisco index, so that ours is very similar -- MR. LUDWIG: Point of order. I believe that the hon. minister's answer goes far beyond what ought to be permitted during a question period.

It's more like a speech, a major speech, and I believe that he is entirely out of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The hon. minister's statement is becoming somewhat in the nature of a statement that might be made on Orders of the Day. Might he conclude shortly, please. MR. YURKO: Well, with all due respect, I was asked to verify the validity of what is being measured, and it does take some time to verify the validity of something as complex as an air pollution index. So, Mr. Speaker, I was trying to verify and give an answer to the question in the manner in which it was asked.

I just wanted to indicate that several months ago I asked a separate authority to review the index as it is being published in Edmonton and Calgary, to get an independent opinion. MR. BUCKWELL: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Does the minister take readings during the sessions in the Legislative Building for air pollution? [Laughter] DR. BUCK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. How extensive, I mean how many areas are involved in taking the monitoring? Is it just one central point or many points that are brought together in a central area? MR. YURKO: Mr.

Speaker, I did indicate to the House just a few minutes ago that the index is based on measurement of one point and all these four pollutants are measured at one point and then a formula is used to determine the number. That is the measure of the pollution at one particular point in the city, but that has been chosen with a considerable amount of care. MR. LUDWIG: Supplementary to the hon. minister. Has he taken any downwind readings recently of stockyards along the highways to determine if they come within the high standards for pure air set by his department? MR. YURKO: Mr.

Speaker, we are constantly taking readings in urban areas as well as in rural areas of the province.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-963 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lethbridge West's question apparently has been answered. The hon. Member for Clover Bar followed by the hon. Member for Little Bow. Sturgeon Lake Seismic Operations DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question to the Minister of Lands and Forests. In view of the fact that a live dynamite cap was found at the Sturgeon Lake seismic site, I would like to know who is responsible for the cleaning up of the seismic site at Sturgeon Lake? DR. WARRACK: Mr.

Speaker, I too heard the report with respect to the dynamite cap, but this has not been confirmed. So I would not make any further speculation with respect to that because that particular report has not been confirmed. DR. BUCK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The real question I asked was who is responsible for the cleanup of the sites regardless of whether they find caps or don’t find live caps? DR. WARRACK: The company, Mr. Speaker. DR. BUCK: Supplementary to the minister. Last week you mentioned, sir, that there were many charges that had not been detonated.

Have any been detonated since you made the announcement? DR. WARRACK: Yes. I also said at that time, Mr. Speaker, that we needed to assess the most appropriate procedure to handle the detonations that were already placed. Having done that, we have learned that, as a matter of fact, the Workmen's Compensation Act requires that these detonations be taken care of, that is to say discharged, and we are in the process of having that done under the closest possible supervision. DR. BUCK: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Would the hon. minister be able to inform us if they were five-pound charges or two-and-a-half-pound charges, or do you know? DR. WARRACK: My information, Mr. Speaker, is that they are all two-and-a-half-pound charges. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Little Bow’s question apparently has been answered. The hon. member for Edmonton Kingsway followed by the hon. Member for Calgary Bow. Bottle Depots DR. PAPROSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the hon.

Minister of the Environment, I wonder if the minister would be so kind as to explain for further clarification the circumstances surrounding the posting of location of retail depots for returnables in the Legislative Building and as well, other such places. MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, last Friday I was asked the question by the hon. Member for Calgary Bow with regard to why the cafeteria downstairs wasn't in fact posted

23-964 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 and subsequently the news media assumed that it had to be posted and suggested that the government was violating its own bottle rules -- which was indicated in the paper on Saturday. Nothing can be further from the truth, Mr. Speaker, because in fact there is a situation which provides for table and chairs where the beverages can be consumed. These are classified as on-premise uses, and as an on-premise use under the regulations, are excluded from being posted.

All I can say is that I wish the reporter had checked this matter with me because I had explained it to the hon. member shortly after. MR. WILSON: Supplementary to the hon. Minister of the Environment. Would you explain why the government is promoting the use of cans in the Legislature Building instead of bottles? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that in fact the government is promoting the use of cans as against bottles in the Legislature. MR. WILSON: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Is there a notice in the downstairs cafeteria today? MR. YURKO: Well, Mr.

Speaker, as far as I know, somebody in the department may have wished to satisfy the hon. member but there is certainly no need for a notice whatsoever in the downstairs cafeteria. It is not required by the regulations. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Bow, followed by the hon. Member for Sedgewick- Coronation. Asbestos Health Hazard MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development. Does your department consider asbestos to be a major health hazard to the general public? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, there are certainly some occupational groups in which asbestos fibres, as a result of the use of asbestos in the industry, are a source of considerable concern. At the present time the department is updating regulations in regard to the use of asbestos under the Industrial and Occupational Health Division of the department. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. the Premier. Have you declined an invitation to view a classified documentary film depicting the danger of asbestos to workers in the general public? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware.

I would have to check and find out whether I have or not. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. the Premier. Can you advise this House if you have recently received any representations or briefs regarding the dangers of asbestos to the general public? MR. LOUGHEED: Again, Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information by which I can respond during the question period. I'll take the hon. member's question as notice and provide him with the answer.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-965 MR. HO LEM: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Manpower and Labour. Do you consider the exposure to asbestos to be an industrial hazard to employees? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, this would have to be undertaken in the same way because it is a technical question and we will have to ask the experts to give us an opinion on that -- I couldn't at this point. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister of Highways. Has the hon. minister given any consideration to building an asbestos bridge? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr.

Speaker, we have some collapsible bridges, but I think it would be far too light. MR. HO LEM: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of the Environment. Is your department presently conducting any studies on asbestos as to its effect upon humans and the environment? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, this is certainly an area of considerable concern, not only a non-plant contamination with respect to the health and welfare of the people working on a plant, but with respect to the general background content of asbestos fibres.

It has been recognized, in fact, that there are some very substantial effects on mankind with respect to asbestos fibres, and this is an area in which we are not only examining with considerable care with respect to the regulations in the United States under OSHA and under the Environmental Protection Agency, but it is also an area in which we hope to do some work ourselves. I'm not sure that there isn't an application before the government in regard to the environmental research thrust. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the Minister of Education.

In light of the comments by the Minister of the Environment, is the Department of Education giving any consideration to banning the use of asbestos clay in schools in the province to avoid potential dangers connected with lung cancer and asbestosis? MR. HYNDMAN: Not that I know of at the moment, Mr. Speaker, but I will certainly look into it right away and if there are safeguards required we will put them into effect. MR. CLARK: A supplementary to the Minister of Culture, Youth and Recreation.

Is your department giving any consideration to the prohibition of the use of asbestos clay in programs funded by your department? MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, I would have to look into this problem, if it is a problem, since I am not aware of what kind of material is being used at the arts and crafts centre. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, ... MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Possibly we could move on to another substance and come back to asbestos a little while later.

23-966 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 The hon. Member for Sedgewick-Coronation, followed by the hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury. Elevator Constructors' Strike MR. SORENSON: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Manpower and Labour. When will the government be introducing legislation including compulsory arbitration to settle the elevator strike? DR. HOHOL: If the hon. member consents I should prefer, because of the time involved, to give a statement on this under Orders of the Day. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury, followed by the hon. Member for Wainwright. Housing Frauds MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Consumer Affairs to ask if the government is doing any any investigations into the many reported housing frauds that are resulting in numerous complaints of loss of a substantial amount of money to Albertans, and especially in the area of Challenge and Zaratec Homes? MR. DOWLING: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I answered that question on Friday last, indicating that the Attorney General's Department and other branches of the government are investigating the whole matter and are attempting to develop legislation which will curb this type of action. MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary question to the minister. Is the government then in the process of preparing legislation that would require investigations by The Alberta Housing Corporation into the soundness of firms, prior to public funds being channelled to firms through Alberta Housing Corporation? MR. DOWLING: Well, Mr. Speaker, the details of legislation are not worked out as yet. I do know they are working on it. I don't personally know how far along they are.

I haven't had too much opportunity to get into the meat of it but I can say, as I said on Friday, that they are investigating the whole business of housing frauds and other related items. MR. CLARK: A further question to the minister, Mr. Speaker. Do the various government agencies, when they see questionable practices by some firms, advise CMHC so that CMHC have the benefit of that information before they approve loans to Albertans, that the loans would in turn then be -- or the houses be built by some of these firms? MR. DOWLING: Well there again, Mr.

Speaker, I am not in a position to answer that question but I will take that last one as notice and follow it up for you. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Wainwright, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary McCall.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-967 Loaning Institutions MR. RUSTE: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Does the Alberta Agricultural Development Corporation recognize credit unions as loaning institutions eligible for government guarantee? DR. HORNER: Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR. RUSTE: A supplementary question then, Mr. Speaker. In the brochure announced the other day of the Alberta Future Farmer's Program which is sponsored by the Alberta Agricultural Development Corporation there is no mention made of credit unions and where to obtain a loan. Is that an oversight or can this be corrected?

DR. HORNER: No, Mr. Speaker. The credit unions themselves have not been very anxious to get involved because they don't consider the interest rates we require in these programs attractive enough. We have had very small involvement with the credit unions with regard to the guaranteed cattle program. But essentially the problem is that the credit unions require a higher interest rate and so far haven't been able to make an impact in these programs. We were going to have some discussions with them to see if there is a more effective way in which they can participate. Public Housing Tenants MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Calgary McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs regarding public housing tenants in Alberta. Has your department considered amending legislation to eliminate requirements of damage deposits for public housing tenants? MR. RUSSELL: No we haven't, Mr. Speaker. MR. HO LEM: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

With respect to the problems of damage claims in the city of Calgary, would your department consider participating as a third party along with the Calgary Housing Authority in the assessment of damages to rental housing in Calgary? MR. RUSSELL: Maybe I missed something, Mr. Speaker, but I think that was a hypothetical question. I wonder if the member would mind rephrasing it. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, by way of clarification. It was suggested by the National Association of Public Housing for Tenants that the government would act as a third party.

At the present time the Calgary Housing Authority is the sole judge of the damages to the various properties in Calgary, and, of course, this isn't fair. It was suggested the government form the third member, first the Calgary Housing, the tenant, and then the provincial government. MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I sense there might be some duplication there because the members of the Calgary Housing Authority are the selected representatives of all levels of government and as such do represent the provincial government.

23-968 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 MR. HO LEM: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Do you feel this is fair, that we just have one authority acting as sole judge to determine the damages to the various departments of the public housing in Calgary? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The hon. member's question is in the nature of debate and also in the nature of eliciting a personal opinion from a minister. The hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View, followed by the hon. Member for Vermilion-Viking. AGT Janitorial Services MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the hon. Minister of Telephones and Utilities.

Is AGT advertising for contract janitorial services for any building in Calgary? MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I don't know. I'll find out and let the hon. member know. MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, might I pose the same question to the hon. Minister of Public Works. Is his department advertising for the caretaking of any building in Calgary through contract janitorial services? DR. BACKUS: Not as far as I know, Mr. Speaker.

In fact we made an undertaking that until we found the results of the experiment we are conducting here in Edmonton we wouldn't be making further contracts to the private sector for any of our major buildings. We will, of course, be continuing the practice of contracting occasional minor jobs, not necessarily caretaking ones, but minor jobs out of the private sector. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister of Public Works. Will there be a differential between the hourly wage paid to the regular government caretakers and those hired under the contract terms? DR. BACKUS: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the actual contract is with the contractor and he makes his hourly wage payments in accordance with his normal custom. There is in the contract the fair wage clause which should assure a fair wage for the workers who are working for the contractor, but that necessarily we will tie them to the same hourly wage as is being paid to the Department of Public Works caretaker isn't really part of our agreement with them. MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. When two men are working side by side doing the same work, do you not envision difficulties if one is being paid more per hour than the other? MR.

SPEAKER: Order please. The hon. member is debating. The hon. Member for Vermilion-Viking, followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge East. Civil Service Employees MR. COOPER: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the hon. Minister of Manpower and Labour. Mr. Minister does the government have a specific policy relating to the political involvement of Alberta Civil Service employees?

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-969 DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, not in terms of a written policy, but there is a pretty clear understanding on the matter with the Civil Service Association of Alberta. MR. COOPER: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. What procedure would be followed if an Alberta Civil Service employee wished to run for political office, specifically MLA or MP, and requested time off to conduct a campaign? DR. HOHOL: Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe we had a case like that in the last federal election. This gentleman was an instructor in one of our colleges.

He took time off without pay and campaigned, and I think part of his campaign was during the summer vacation. But the view is that at a certain level of the civil service they should have the same privileges and duty to run for public service, if that is their wish, at no prejudice or bias of the institution or to the individual. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lethbridge East, followed by the hon. Member for Drumheller. Pollution -- St. Mary River MR. ANDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct my question to the Minister of Health and Social Development.

Has the minister been advised by the Chinook Health Unit medical officer of a health hazard of public nuisance being created in the St. Mary River by dead cattle? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, if any presentation on the subject has been made to my office, it has not come to my personal attention. I'd be glad to look into it for the hon. member. MR. ANDERSON: A supplementary question to the Minister of the Environment. Does the Department of the Environment or any other department provide assistance to ranchers in removing carcasses from streams or rivers? And if so, do they bill the rancher for this assistance? MR.

YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that we provide any assistance but we certainly have the necessary regulations to make sure that those dead carcasses are, in fact, removed. And certainly under The Clean Water Act they would have to be removed just as soon as they come to our notice. MR. ANDERSON: Another supplementary. Has the department undertaken any studies to determine the extent and nature of pollution caused by cattle or pigs decaying in rivers and streams? A lot of pollution is created by these dead animals in the streams. MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, we survey water bodies constantly -- and rivers.

I am sure departmental people are aware of this problem and are studying it. I think it is against the law, both from a health regulation standpoint and from an environmental standpoint, to permit your cattle to remain in the river, if in fact they die in the river. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Drumheller, followed by the hon. Member for Clover Bar.

23-970 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 Capital Borrowing MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I could address a question to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Does the government plan to limit its capital borrowings this year to the Canadian market? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, with the advocation of treasury bills, it's likely the treasury bills will float primarily in Canada. But I have stated in the past that our interest, and our prime concern, is to cooperate with the federal government as much as possible in trying to confine our borrowings to Canada.

But we have an overriding responsibility at any time to ensure we are borrowing at the rate which is to the greatest advantage to Alberta. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Does the European market offer money at cheaper rates now than the American? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, the interest rate on the face of European money now is cheaper, that's correct. But we must remember that the current monetary situation in the world is such that you really just can't look at the interest rate alone. You have to consider the exchange rates and what is likely to happen.

It is an area that must be watched all the time. So interest is not the only consideration when you are talking about borrowing in foreign currency. MR. TAYLOR: One further supplementary. Are there large sums of money available from the European market for Canadian interests? MR. MINIELY: Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Clover Bar, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary Bow. Asbestos Health Hazard (Cont.) MR. SCHMID: Can I reply to a supplementary question by the hon. Member for Olds- Didsbury regarding clay or its contents?

The clay the Department of Culture and Recreation is using is obtained from Medicine Hat. It does not contain any asbestos fibres. Pollution -- North Saskatchewan River DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Minister of the Environment. Will it be the continuing policy of the Department of the Environment to allow the City of Edmonton to dump sand and salt off the streets in the North Saskatchewan River? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I have a report on this matter which I hope to table in the House very shortly.

And I think the extent of contamination in the North Saskatchewan River from this type of contamination becomes evident from the report. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for --

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-971 DR. BUCK: A supplementary. What was the last part of the statement? I am sorry I missed that. MR. YURKO: I think, Mr. Speaker, I said the extent of contamination in the river from this source will become evident from the report. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Bow, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary Millican. Asbestos Health Hazard (Cont.) MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the hon. Minister of Industry and Commerce.

Has your department considered imposing regulations or guidelines upon Alberta wholesalers and distributors as to the sale of asbestos? MR. PEACOCK: I'm afraid not, Mr. Speaker. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals. Can you advise this House if your department has considered legislation that would regulate the distribution of raw asbestos in Alberta? MR. DICKIE: Mr. Speaker, that hasn't been brought to our attention. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development.

Have you had any discussions with the federal Food and Health Directorate regarding the use of asbestos in medicines? MR. CRAWFORD: No, Mr. Speaker, the subject hasn't come up in any discussions that I have had. It may have been discussed on an official level. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Consumer Affairs. Have you considered the establishment of a task force to examine the content and use of asbestos in consumer products, independently or jointly with the federal government? MR. DOWLING: No, Mr. Speaker, not as yet. I am pleased to have been included in this asbestos debate. MR. COPITHORNE: Mr.

Speaker, in answering the question of the Member for Drumheller in regard to asbestos bridges, thinking about it, I think it would be highly unhealthy for the general public travelling on such a bridge. MR. CLARK: Supplementary question. In light of the concern for the health of the public the Minister of Highways has expressed, I wonder if the Department of Health and Social Development has done any studies dealing with raw asbestos and asbestos powder and general asbestos materials and such diseases as pulmonary asbestosis and pleural calcification? MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, may I answer the question --

23-972 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 [Interjections] MR. CLARK: — Minister of Telephones, but I asked the Minister of Health and Social Development. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I never mind sharing the spotlight with one of my hon. colleagues. The answer to the hon. member's question, though, is that it now appears we've come full circle.

The answer that I gave originally — by originally I mean 20 or 30 minutes ago — was meant to assure all hon. members that the branch of the department responsible for industrial health and safety has, indeed, been updating the information and the regulations in that respect and that is now a current matter. MR. CLARK: Supplementary question, then, to the minister, Mr. Speaker. Do you have any such study, or does the department have any such study underway now? MR. CRAWFORD: I'm sorry if my answer didn't appear to cover that part of it, Mr. Speaker.

The whole purpose in updating the matter at the present time is a direct result of what the branch has found out in their work by looking into situations where it appears that might be the case. MR. CLARK: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Manpower and Labour. Does the Department of Manpower and Labour plan to introduce legislation, or regulations, dealing with the handling of asbestos and people who work directly with asbestos in Alberta industry? DR. HOHOL: Mr.

Speaker, I summarize by saying that very clearly a close look by some of the departments will have to be made on the matter of asbestos. Such action as the coordinated look will indicate, will in fact, be taken, including the last one proposed by the hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury, if that is the indicated action. MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, if this hot subject is now ended, could I answer a question that was put earlier by the hen. Member for Calgary Mountain View? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The hon. minister wishes to supplement a previous answer.

The Chair would respectfully suggest that the subject of asbestos has now run the gamut of a long series of supplementaries on two occasions in this question period. Perhaps we could advert to it further when there is further news on the subject. AGT Janitorial Services (Cont.) MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View earlier asked if AGT was advertising for contractual janitorial services in Calgary. The answer is yes, AGT has adopted this method for the past five years and contracts almost all of its janitorial services.

The estimated savings are $350,000 a year, as compared to hiring a permanent janitorial staff. MR. LUDWIG: Supplementary, what building is this contract intended for -- the one you are advertising at the present time? MR. FARRAN: I'm just pointing out to the hon. member that almost all janitorial service throughout the AGT system is contracted.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-973 MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, my question was, for what building is this contract intended? Apparently all present buildings are being serviced. Are you anticipating any future need in this field, and is that why you are advertising? MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I think I was making it quite clear that AGT has considerable real estate in Calgary and Edmonton and contracts almost all its janitorial services. From time to time it will call for tenders to make certain that the price is competetive. MR.

LUDWIG: Supplementary, what building under the jurisdiction of AGT is presently not serviced by janitorial services, and for that reason you are advertising? MR. FARRAN: I’m trying to make it clear, Mr. Speaker. All AGT buildings have janitorial service. They intend to keep them very clean. MR. LUDWIG: So then I might get a clean answer, Mr. Speaker. Why are you advertising for more if they are all clean now? MR. GETTY: Looking for a job Albert? MR. FARRAN: ...we get a competitive price, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Millican, followed by the hon. Member for Sedgewick-Coronation.

Edmonton Power Failure MR. DIXON: Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the hon. Minister of Telephones and Utilities. It is regarding the serious power failure experienced by the city of Edmonton on Saturday. What action does the minister plan in investigating the apparent failure of the city of Edmonton, or its inability, to hook into the Alberta Power grid system in order to prevent a similar situation happening in the future? MR. FARRAN: Mr.

Speaker, we have been in close touch with Edmonton Power over the weekend during this emergency situation, and perhaps I could explain in some detail, and at greater length than usual, exactly what happened. Five Edmonton Power employees were in the Hardisty sub-station making final tests on installing a new addition to the 14,000 volt electrical equipment. When they switched on the power an electrical failure occurred. The resulting fire and heat blew out not only the control power but all the safety devices, including the 72,000 volt switchyard which is normally automatic outside.

The EMO and ourselves remained in close touch with Edmonton Power over the weekend. We considered that they had this emergency situation well in hand. Unfortunately, the delays were because the emergency interconnection with Calgary Power came through the Clover Bar station which was rendered inoperative by the failure of these safety controls. But an emergency tie was made at the Rossdale generating station and put into service as quickly as possible to assist the city to restore service.

There was a short power 'outage' this morning in the Hardisty area but it was not serious -- it was from 4 to 5 minutes while changes were being made in the transformer connection.

23-974 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 A failure of this kind is extremely unusual and probably due to human error. The fact that so many safety control devices vent out is now the subject of investigation by Edmonton Power. MR. DIXON: A supplementary question to the hon. minister, Mr. Speaker, and it is to do with liaison between the Alberta grid system and the City of Edmonton or any other city that is generating its own power. Was there any advance information given to the Alberta grid system that a major change was going to take place on Saturday? MR. FARRAN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the backup from the grid system -- if you like to call it that, or from the private utility -- as I pointed out was through the Clover Bar station which also unfortunately went out. But they very quickly then tapped into the Rossdale generating station so there was backup power from Calgary Power. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member -- MR. CLARK: A supplementary question to the Minister of Agriculture. Mr. Minister you are the minister responsible for the Alberta emergency measures operation.

Have you asked the officials of the Alberta Emergency Measures Organization to do an independent study into the reason for the 70-minute period of time when Edmonton had no power? DR. HORNER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have asked my officials in the Emergency Measures Organization to review the situation and I have a preliminary report, primarily the same as the Minister of Telephones has already given, and we will be following up with having a look at making sure that we have better ways of by- passing these kinds of areas to get backup power from the other power companies. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Sedgewick-Coronation. Hunting Coyotes MR. SORENSON: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Agriculture. Has your department advised people in central Alberta not to pelt the coyotes they shoot and not to catch them with dogs and hounds as is reported in the Western Producer? DR. HORNER: I would have to take that question as notice, Mr. Speaker, and give the hon. member a report. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Wainwright. Implement Buyer's Guide MR. RUSTE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Industry and Commerce.

Is your department publishing, or considering publishing, an Alberta implement buyer's guide which would list the 'Made in Alberta' implements for distribution to our agricultural producers? MR. PEACOCK: Mr. Speaker, our department hasn't been considering it but because of the question raised by the hon. member, we will take it under consideration.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-975 MR. RUSTE: Supplementary question to the minister. Is he aware that such a publication from the Saskatchewan Department of Industry and Commerce is coming into Alberta? MR. PEACOCK: Yes, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY head: MINISTERIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS Elevator Constructors' StrikeDR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate the cooperation of the hon. Member for Sedgewick-Coronation to give me the opportunity to report in terms of a review of the elevator constructors strike at the present time.

The collective agreement between the International Union of Elevator Constructors and the Canadian Elevator Manufacturers expired April 30, 1972. This collective agreement was for a five-year term. The companies involved are: Armour Elevator (Canada) Ltd., Dover Corporation (Canada) - Turnbull Elevator Division, Montgomery Elevator Co. Ltd., Otis Elevator Co. Ltd., and the Elevator Division of Westinghouse Canada Ltd.

A national strike began in Hamilton, Ontario on August 28, 1972, and by September 18 had spread across the country, with the exception of Alberta where the strike commenced on October 8, 1972 after conciliation efforts in Alberta failed to effect a settlement as they failed across the nation. The strike was declared to be illegal in the Province of Quebec in January of this year, and an injunction was granted to the companies in British Columbia and subsequently the British Columbia Court of Appeal ruled that the strike in British Columbia was illegal.

This strike has delayed about 80 or more projects in this province and even if the strike were to terminate tomorrow, the effects of the strike on the economy of this province will still be felt for some time to come owing to the backlog of work which exists at the present time as a direct result of the strike. The question of priorities becomes important in terms of whether the men return to the work they were doing when they went on strike or to certain other new ones that have become important since that time. Construction projects valued at some $200 million have been delayed in Alberta.

Among these are hospitals, hotels, highrise apartment buildings, civic and university projects, government buildings and commercial developments. The Government of Alberta has been concerned with the impact of this strike and has been in close contact with the senior labour officials, including the ministers in other provinces. Alberta has, as have other provinces, supported and approved of the mediation efforts of the Ministry of Labour in Ontario. The mediation team from Ontario, headed by William Dickie, the Assistant Deputy Minister, has in our view, made an outstanding effort in a very difficult situation.

The mediators from the Ontario Ministry of Labour held approximately 45 meetings. In addition however, there were many more meetings behind the scenes with smaller committees. The Premier of Ontario, the hon. William Davis and the Minister of Labour, the hon. Fern Guindon, met with the parties on March 12 and 13. The Government of Ontario will introduce legislation at the beginning of the new session of the Ontario Legislature on March 20, for final and binding settlement through arbitration. The parties have been urged to continue their efforts to effect a settlement during the interim.

23-976 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 The International Union of Elevator Constructors stated that they would voluntarily accept final and binding arbitration at a meeting on March 3 and 4. The companies have resisted this procedure. Their resistance is based on the scope of the matters to be placed before the arbitration board. The manufacturers were prepared to agree to voluntary arbitration provided there were certain exclusions from the reference to arbitration which the companies say affect the fundamental functions of management to control their operations. It has been our hope, Mr.

Speaker, that the dispute could be settled by the parties to the dispute with the assistance of mediators from the Government of Ontario. However, at this moment a settlement does not seem likely even though the parties still have a few days left before the Government of Ontario introduces the necessary legislation to impose a final and binding settlement through arbitration by a board of arbitration. If this dispute cannot be settled on a national basis then this government will review the situation in the light of the current events.

I will be prepared, in a few days, to make recommendations on the course of action to be taken in Alberta. To this end, at noon I met with the labour representatives from Manitoba, Saskatchewan, British Columbia and Alberta. It is worthy of note that this is the first strike in the 50 year relationship between this union and these companies in this country. The parent companies of the companies in this dispute were involved in a strike by the Elevator Constructors' Union in the United States for 102 days in 1972.

The settlement of this dispute in the United States apparently will not serve as a basis for settlement in this country. head: GOVERNMENT MOTIONS 1. Moved by Mr. Miniely, seconded by Mr. Dowling: That this House approve in general the fiscal policies of the government. [Adjourned debate: Mr. Henderson] MR. HENDERSON: Mr. Speaker, at the time of adjournment last Friday I think we had arrived -- at least I had -- at two or three conclusions that I would simply reiterate as the continuing point for today's contribution to the budget debate.

We had established -- courtesy of the Minister of Highways -- that it was the prerogative of a politican to change his mind. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this is probably in the best interest of the public in the long run, particularly when a politican moves from this side of the Legislature to that one. Some of the things that are said on this side are better forgotten and a few changes of mind are to be expected. I think we also established, Mr. Speaker, -- courtesy of the Minister of Agriculture -- that we had an administration in Alberta that was truly progessive and conservative.

The present administration is progressive at least in the illustration as presented on the part of the Department of Agriculture; it's progessive in the sense that they have a tremendous capability to expand the bureaucracy. The Minister of Agriculture stands out as an outstanding progessive in that regard having doubled the size of his department in two years.

However, we also established by comparing the value of increased cash income to farmers in Alberta to Saskatchewan that the results he achieved with that expenditure of the taxpayers' money was somewhat conservative as compared to the other prairie provinces. We very briefly touched on the communication gap that exists between the Premier and the other members of the 'Conservative Party Mutual Admiration Society' that meets this time of year in this Assembly relative to the need for praise for the work that the hon. members opposite have been doing.

Because I think those that have been here two years and spent much time here would have to conclude that one of the characteristics that hasn't been lacking in the 'now' government was the capability demonstrated by many members to stand up and praise one another -- backbenchers to praise cabinet ministers and cabinet ministers to pat one another on the back as well. I pointed out this contrast

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-977 very sharply with the statement of the Premier in this little pamphlet put out by his political organization where he says, "There are very few men and women in this province who have worked such long hours, with fewer breaks, under such pressures, for so little praise." So I think, Mr. Speaker, we -- as I say -- have established that there is a bit of an internal communication problem, at least in some areas within the present administration.

Now that brings us up to today where I want to continue with remarks on three or four areas relating to the other activities of the government. Today I would first like to touch on the specific area of inflation. I think public opinion polls all across Canada have indicated, and I think members of this House are probably conscious of it, that inflation remains the number one concern of the people in this country. I think sooner or later, Mr.

Speaker, governments, including this one, are going to have to come to the realization that the spending of governments themselves constitutes one of the major, if not the major, factor contributing to inflation. An exercise on the part of a government looking beyond its own immediate responsibilities to deal with the problem of inflation is simply sweeping the issue under the rug.

When governments collectively in Canada spend over 40 per cent of the gross national product -- and government spendings collectively have been growing, I think in general, at a rate that is about twice the rate of growth of the national product -- it's obvious that governments themselves are the major contributors to the problem of inflation.

I think, when we look at the budget that is before us and look at the attitude of the present government -- that they can borrow their way into prosperity -- and justify this on the hypothesis that repaying the loan after all means paying for it with inflated dollars — that very attitude in itself, Mr. Speaker, determines the problems of inflation. The predictions of inflation being made throughout the country are going to be self-fulfilling.

One uses the arguments -- at least that were used last year in this Assembly and I have heard nothing contrary to that this year -- that the justification for borrowing money was after all in repaying the loans with inflated dollars, or devalued dollars, so why not borrow? One looks at the borrowings in this budget of $140 million, or deficits, which I presume will lead to borrowings in the $100 million range or more unless the government has some cash stowed away in a few more trust funds that it can get hold of.

But the borrowings that this government is going to make, or the deficit financing, and try to meet an increased expenditure somewhere in the order of 14 per cent which is probably pretty close to twice the anticipated rate of growth in the province -- at least in the real growth sense -- then one has to look at where we are going. I mentioned last Friday the increases in the bureaucracy alone, and the cost of it along with inflation, amounted to probably $70 million or $80 million. This is approximately one-half of the projected deficit.

So we still see the government in this year's budget adding to the problems that it created last year by projecting a substantial increase in the bureaucracy again this year. So I think governments all across the country, and inside this province, are going to have to stop beating the bush for a bogy man -- the farmer, or the manufacturer, or labour and so on. Because I don’t see how on earth any of these other segments of society are going to come to accept seriously expressions of concern by governments about inflation if the governments themselves don’t first put their own house in order.

The conclusion is inescapable. The governments spending the amounts of the gross national product they are in the country today, are one of the major, if not the major, contributor.

I recall a week ago Sunday, hearing on a CBC program on Sunday morning, a statement made by somebody to the effect that as far as the American national debt was concerned, if every man, woman and child in the U.S. worked for two and one-half years and didn't take a single dollar home, or a single product or anything, and consumed nothing, it would take two and one-half years of effort with no return to the individual, on the part of every man, woman and child in the United States to balance the national deficit -- the national debt.

Certainly I haven't got the figures for Canada, but I would suspect they must be in the same ballpark.

23-978 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 When one looks this year, in this budget, at a projected deficit of $140 million and presumably several millions of dollars of borrowing to meet that deficit, and looks at the fact that there is $400 million in sales from oil and gas products that are going to accrue to the provincial treasury, one has to question the wisdom of borrowings of this magnitude in comparison to the sale of a capital asset of that magnitude.

Because very clearly, when we sell $400 million -- I don't know what this represents in sales -- but when the government derives income of $400 million from the sale of oil and gas capital assets, and then has to turn around and go out and borrow money to meet its capital expenditures, one has to question the principle of it.

I suggest if the government were in the business of trying to sell off the topsoil in the province and use the revenue from that and export it, and use the revenue to balance their budget, we would have a much better idea of what lies in the future with regard to selling capital assets and borrowing to meet capital expenses today. Because very clearly the roof has to fall in, and it's only a matter of when.

When one takes a look at the projected proven reserves of oil and gas for this province and examines them in terms of current production, one finds there is probably less than ten years of proven reserves of crude oil in the province, and even when one looks at the 30-year reserve of gas which is supposed to be here for the benefit of the people of Alberta and applies the production rates to the total reserve, one is soon forced to conclude that the reserves of gas are finite and they will not last indefinitely.

So I think the government, very clearly in the long run, has to examine the policy of selling capital assets on the one hand and has to continue borrowing to meet budget deficits on the other hand. And I think it is worth noting in that regard, Mr. Speaker, that Alberta alone amongst the four western provinces, at least on the basis of the best arithmetic I can get, is in an overall deficit position once again this year. If I am wrong in this regard, in my

interpretation of the data from the other two prairie provinces and British Columbia I would appreciate it if the Provincial Treasurer would bring this to my attention in his closing remarks. But on the basis of the information I have, Alberta stands alone among the four western provinces in not meeting its total current expenditures on income account and capital account from current revenues, and has to go to deficit financing and apparently go onto the open market to acquire the necessary money. And it may well be, Mr.

Speaker, that some of this won't stand up under scrutiny because of the type of bookkeeping used. But I presume the Provincial Treasurer would be prepared to comment on that if my remarks are out of order. Now, Mr. Speaker, the second matter I'd like to turn to is the question of the policies that this government has set for itself, the course of action it has set for itself, concerning the basic concepts of local autonomy. Because very clearly in my mind, the concept of local autonomy is fundamental to our democratic process. It's a cornerstone.

Democracy doesn't work from the top down, it works from the bottom end up, and when a provincial government tends to interfere with the freedom of choice at the local level on the part of local government, they are in my view unquestionably eroding democracy as we understand it today. It would be no different when the federal government imposes policies on the provincial government.

And they are doing this, particularly in Medicare -- it always comes back to me as the outstanding example where the federal government has disregarded the spirit and intent of The BNA Act in using their taxing powers to force programs on the provinces that the provinces may not necessarily want in that particular form. But now we find, Mr.

Speaker, that the government in its commitment to remove the costs of health services and education from property tax and ease the burden on the taxpayer at the local level, has announced that it is going to take over 100 per cent of the costs of health unit operations, 100 per cent of the cost of hospital operations, and has also put some guidelines out on municipal spending. And I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, one cannot do other than arrive at the conclusion that when the government says it is going to take over 100 per cent of health-unit costs and 100 per cent of hospital costs, and also states that in order to back that policy up it is going to remove from the local boards running those two particular programs the right to raise revenues locally and make those boards solely dependent upon the provincial government for its revenues, there can be no doubt about it that the options and freedoms of choice that those two particular local boards had in the past to run their own affairs are going to be severely impeded.

Notwithstanding the best intentions of the government and the minister -- and I do think their intentions are good -- when in actual fact they tell the health boards and the hospital boards, "No, you no longer can raise revenue locally, your sole source of revenue has got to be the provincial treasury," there is no doubt whatever that the bureaucrats that make

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-979 up the departments, in this case the Department of Health and Social Development, are going to very definitely start trying to tell all local authorities how to do all their business, how to do their bookkeeping, how to do this and how to do that. It is inevitable. There can be no other outcome from it. And I don't think the minister, even if his intentions were contrary to that, can possibly deal with the realities of trying to assure that that interference won't come about. In my mind, Mr.

Speaker, the concept of local autonomy is inseparable from some element of local financial responsibility, some element of responsibility for raising the money. And while I accept in principle that the provincial government has a basic responsibility to meet these costs, and a responsibility to as much as possible ease the tax burden on property, I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that in trying to provide funds to local authorities it's extremely important that the method by which it is done is critically examined so that local autonomy is not infringed upon.

The same thing applies to Medicare on the part of the federal government. They are using their taxing powers to force the provinces to do something, notwithstanding The BNA Act. I arrive at the conclusion when the provincial government says it's going to save $7 million, they are going to pay out $7 million more for hospital services, 50 per cent of which is shareable by the federal government, it says to me that the government in office in Alberta today does not believe that local autonomy in the area of hospital services is worth $3.5 million. MR. RUSTE: What's next? MR. HENDERSON: And I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that any government that I think in the long term is committed to preservation of democratic processes should seriously examine whether these policies that have been adopted are in the long-term best interests of maintaining the democratic system as we know it today. Because, Mr. Speaker, I am convinced, notwithstanding the best of intentions, that the results are not going to be good so far as preserving freedom of choice in local affairs at the local level.

And then when one looks at the guidelines that have been laid out for municipal associations that say if you keep your spending increases, your mill rate, down to less than 7.5 per cent this year, we will give you an additional grant. Very clearly, Mr. Speaker, this is interfering with freedom of choice locally. Then one could say, "Oh no, it isn't." All we want to do is insist there be a little economy at the local level, that the local boards, local municipal council does not move to pick up a share of the increased tax rebate that the government has produced for home owners which is reflected in this budget.

So we must have some sort of ceiling there, otherwise the municipal council will simply increase its mill rate and it will detract from the basic benefits that we bestowed upon the individual tax payer. I would like to suggest, Mr. Speaker, when one looks at the fact that the unconditional incentive grants are not based on a mathematical formula, but are rather based on a 20-page document -- terms of reference of some sort or guidelines -- which this Legislature has yet to see.

Rather the decision as to whether the incentive grant will be paid will be based on a judgment presumably, once again by the bureaucrats existing within the Department of Municipal Affairs, just as they are going to determine how much money they are going to pay out in health and social benefits to hospitals and health units. And if you don't go our way, you don't get it. This same thing is going to apply with incentive grants. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that in the absence of a specific mathematical formula with which to deal with the question of incentive grants, there is an element of intimidation involved.

Because municipalities are going to be most reluctant to come in and really get down to brass tacks about telling the government to mind their own business so far as administration of local affairs is concerned, when there is the threat hanging over their head that somebody in the government, be it the minister or a bureaucrat, has the discretionary power to eliminate a grant if they don't agree.

23-980 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 AN HON. MEMBER: Shame. MR. HENDERSON: There is an element of intimidation involved in it. The same element of intimidation, Mr. Speaker, as eventually, ultimately, involved in the government paying 100 per cent of hospital costs and health unit costs, and refusing the right, or withdrawing the right, of health-unit boards and hospital boards to raise some revenues locally. Because, without that right, they simply are the pawns of the bureaucrats within the department. So one cannot but express concern at the direction which the government seems to be heading in that regard.

I strongly suggest, if the commitment of the Premier and his colleagues to the preservation of a concept of local autonomy and the preservation of the democratic system we have is as strong as I would like to believe it is, then he should seriously look at the dangerous principles and the course of action upon which they have embarked, when they introduced these new policies, because they undoubtedly detract from both local autonomy and preservation of a democratic system. I think, Mr. Speaker, there is one other aspect about this exercise which is particularly alarming.

It is not only the principle, but the public relations footwork that the government has gone through, to try to take some of the heat out of the issue at the local level.

Frankly, I have to say, in my view, the timing of the decision to hand out a provincial park to Calgary worth over $10 million, and the generous funding of the Commonwealth Games for Edmonton, cannot be dissociated from the guidelines which are being invoked by the Department of Municipal Affairs -- and municipal spending -- because neither of these two cities are going to be anxious to come to grips with the problem, to tackle the provincial government on its intrusion into local autonomy for fear of losing those particular grants, those particular projects, which they see -- and hope -- to be in the best interests of their constituents.

And they probably are, but one has to be concerned about the principle. I think one also has to be concerned to draw attention to the sugar-coating that has gone on the pill, to make it as acceptable as possible to people at the community level. I suggest, again, Mr. Speaker, I think the government should, very definitely, re-examine the principles they have established, notwithstanding the best of their intentions to help out the taxpayers at the local level as much as possible, so far as relieving his property tax burden is concerned.

Surely there is some way of providing financial assistance to the communities, to the health units, to the hospitals, without eroding local autonomy, local responsibility, and in the final analysis, elementary democracy, to the extent this action will. I agree with the objective but I suggest the procedure is fraught with a number of long-term perils, notwithstanding the best intentions of the government. Mr. Speaker, the last item I want to turn to concerns the matter of the Craig case.

I suggest, in light of the decision by the government not to have a commission examine the matters that were brought to light by The Alberta Human Rights and Civil Liberties Association, that the matter simply has to be examined in the Legislature. I don't know whether all members have read this -- the report -- or not, and I suspect that it is only a minority that have read it. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, it should be viewed as compulsory reading for all members of this Legislature.

Because in my mind all members of this Legislature, and particularly the Executive Council of the government, I think, are to some extent on trial as far as the manner in which the whole Craig case was handled at the start and the manner in which it appears to have been disposed of. I’d just like to refer briefly to some of the questions and answers that took place in the House relating to this matter in the last few weeks. I believe a week ago today, Mr.

Speaker, I asked the Attorney General whether they were going to proceed with a commission as per the request of The Alberta Human Rights and Civil Liberties Association. The Attorney General said directly, 'No, they are not,' and then went on to justify why they didn’t think it was necessary. As far as The Coroners Act is concerned one of the responses of the Attorney General was, Mr. Speaker: In the first instance, Mr.

Speaker, with respect to The Coroners Act, the Institute of Law Research and Reform is now dealing with a number of items in which there was a very high priority, and in fact, they are a bit behind on their scheduling ...

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-981 And I am forced to wonder, Mr. Speaker, in the final analysis, which is more important, real estate or the question of the administration of the law in the province? particularly when it has criminal implications attached to it. Such is the case in the Craig case. I find it hard to believe that one should accept the argument that the Institute of Law Research and Reform is better devoted to the matter of property expropriation than it is to this basic issue. I think it is far more fundamental than the question of human rights or the question of property rights. Then Mr.

Leitch also went on to say: Turning now, Mr. Speaker, to the question of the Royal Commission, the matter it refers to -- that is, the judicial system as it affects the lower courts -- is in part, at least that part dealing with the criminal procedure, a matter that is wholly within the federal jurisdiction. Now as I understand the law, Mr. Speaker, and the Criminal Code of Canada, the administration of the Criminal Code rests with the provincial government through the office of the Attorney General.

I am not competent to decide or judge whether it is the Criminal Code which is at fault in the Craig case or the method of administration, the manner by which the Criminal Code is administered. I suspect that maybe one can't separate the two. But very clearly, to dismiss the request for the inquiry, based on the argument that the Criminal Code is federal legislation, simply does not do justice to the fact that the administration of the Criminal Code is the responsibility of the provincial government through the Attorney General. I think it has been suggested in other quarters, Mr.

Speaker, that the matter of the Craig case should be left to the legal community or the judicial system to solve on its own. And I suggest, Mr. Speaker, I find it difficult to follow that particular conclusion or accept it. We were talking a minute or two ago about a fundamental democratic process. The way I understand it, Mr. Speaker, democracy is through the elected officials - - in this case in the provincial government in this legislature, and the federal government -- that the basic process of democracy is achieved.

Because we in this assembly and the members in the federal House of Commons are the ones that are accountable directly to the electorate. The police aren't elected, the average citizen doesn't have the right to throw them out if he doesn't like them; the judges aren't elected, they are not directly accountable to the citizen. Only the elected representatives in this Assembly, or in the federal Parliament in this particular case are elected. They have the fundamental responsibility, one way or another, for everything that goes on in the Dominion of Canada and in the Province of Alberta.

And any effort to abrogate that particular basic responsibility, Mr. Speaker, is simply to deny that we have a democratic institution in this country and in this province. So I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that examining the Craig case, every member of this Legislature, by virtue of the responsibility that is invested in the Attorney General for the administration of criminal justice in this province, has some responsibility to examine what has happened in the Craig case. I think the Attorney General recognizes there is something wrong because he says later on in his answer: "There is no doubt, Mr.

Speaker, that there is need for reform in both of those areas.", referring to The Criminal Code and the Coroners Act. But what we are talking about is the apparent refusal of the government to take direct action on the matter. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, the lack of action on the part of the government in this particular question contrasts very sharply with the speedy manner in which the Premier made up his mind about the matter raised in this House by the Member for Drumheller in the case of Mr. Davy. It was raised on a Monday in this House by the Member for Drumheller.

The following day the Premier commented that he hadn't been familiar with the particular matter but he examined the case overnight and concluded that a judicial inquiry was in order and promptly set out to examine or to set up the judicial inquiry. That decision was made overnight even though the Premier hadn't been personally involved or presumably knowledgeable in the matters relating to the case. In this particular case, Mr. Speaker, however, The Craig Report was made public. Seven days later I asked the Premier if he had read the report and he informed the House that no, he had not.

And then subsequently, earlier than that, the Attorney General said no, there was not to be an inquiry.

23-982 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 One is forced to conclude, Mr. Speaker, that the rule of thumb which this government is going to follow in these matters, isn't whether elementary justice is being served, but whether it looks like it is in the government’s political interest to set up an inquiry. The Premier concluded in his statement on the Craig report when he made his comments in the House about setting up the inquiry: Since the House rose last evening -- and because I have had no personal contact with Mr.

Davy since assuming office -- I have undertaken as quickly as possible a review of the circumstances. The allegations made by the hon. Member for Drumheller are, in our view completely unfounded. However, we feel that the matter should be fully examined. Now one can only conclude, when one views the rapid action on the part of the government in one case and the refusal to act in the other case, that the government will pursue an inquiry when it looks like it is in their best political interest to do so. But when it appears that it may not or is not, there will not be an inquiry. And, Mr.

Speaker, this I say is what it appears to be. I hope to goodness that is not the case. But very clearly, it is difficult to arrive at any other conclusion on the basis of the comparison of the actions of the government in these two cases. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Attorney General did comment, on further questioning in the House in an answer to a supplemental question asked by the Member for Drumheller about whether the government was planning any action.

The Attorney General says: I certainly looked at some of the documents and I expect the majority of them that came into existence in connection with this matter, and at no time, either in conversation or by reviewing these documents, have I found the slightest indication of any improper motive on the part of any of the people within the department. And that may very well may be true, Mr. Speaker. I hope it is true.

But when one goes on to examine the report on the Craig case prepared by The Alberta Human Rights and Civil Liberties Association, it is difficult to arrive at the conclusion that that statement is necessarily applicable in other parts of the judicial and legal system in the province because the report raises some very serious questions. The report points out, and I think rightly so, that the Craig case as we have come to call it, reflects to a very large extent the conflicting viewpoints that exist within our society relative to the problems of drug addiction. I had the feeling on reading the report, Mr.

Speaker, that if it hadn't been Dr. Craig, it would have been some other individual who would have found himself in this predicament because of the strong conflicting attitudes on the question. In that regard, I have to conclude that the doctor himself was basically a pawn in a major social issue. And when one examines what happened to Dr. Craig in light of other support for drug treatment in the province, the contrast of the action taken against Dr. Craig by the police and the law enforcement officers, and support that was given to him by other government agencies conflicts very dramatically.

In the first instance it's on record that Dr. Craig's activities as a doctor in prescribing methadone were being supported and paid for by the Alberta Health Care Insurance Commission. It's also established that his efforts in the methadone treatment program were being subsidized or supported through the Department of Social Development and its successor the Department of Health and Social Development by virtue of paying for the prescriptions that the doctor gave to his patients to provide them with methadone -- this was paid for in a substantial percentage of the cases, I presume, that Dr.

Craig treated by the Department of Health and Social Development. It also has to be noted, Mr. Speaker, that the Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Commission -- since Dr. Craig got out of the business of running this methadone program -- that a government agency has gone directly into the field of providing services in the form of the methadone support program for drug addicts in Edmonton. It's my understanding they are providing some sort of methadone services through the Foothills Hospital in Calgary.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-983 So before the charges were laid, and since the charges were laid, the government was supporting the methadone treatment, and since the charges were disposed of the government was supporting the program. It's also relevant to point out, Mr. Speaker, that at no time -- to my knowledge or what I can lay my hands on -- did the Alberta Medical Association or the College of Physicians and Surgeons in the Province of Alberta, before, during or after the charges of fraud and criminal negligence against Dr.

Craig -- at no time did these professional bodies interfere with the rights of Dr. Craig to practice medicine in the manner in which he was by the prescription of methadone for his patients. So, Mr. Speaker, the action that was taken against the doctor in court contrast very sharply to the support that he was receiving financially from this government, to the fact that the support this government still provides for this type of program contrasts very sharply to the lack of condemnation or withdrawal of rights to practice medicine by the professional bodies -- the College of Physicians and Surgeons. So, Mr.

Speaker, one has to ask what in earth happened? How did it happen? One is forced to conclude as you read through the report, Mr.

Speaker, that a person or persons unknown someplace in the law enforcement system or the judicial system, or the legal system -- whatever terms you wish to use -- decided that notwithstanding the support of the government for these programs that the actions of the doctor in prescribing methadone for drug addicts was socially unacceptable, and decided that the full forces of the law should be brought to bear to stop what in that person's or persons' views was a socially unacceptable service. It was incumbent or desirable to put Dr. Craig and his methadone clinic out of operation one way or another.

And so a fraud charge was laid, it subsequently died -- I guess you would call -- 'on the order paper'. In legal terms I understand it was adjourned beyond the legal eight days provided for in the Criminal Code.

On the fraud charges it's interesting to note the Alberta Health Care Insurance Commission had nothing to do with that particular excercise, in spite of the fact they have all of the statistics, they have the availibility of a multi-million dollar computer complex that is owned by the government where they can run through and sort out the statistics and development practice profiles of every doctor in the province.

Statistically they can analyze any doctor's practice, including whether he is making fraudulent claims, down to an area in which they can determine with a high degree of probability whether fraud is or is not involved. They have taken action in some cases in that regard. But they didn't see fit to take action in this case, presumably because, I can only conclude, they thought they had no basis for it. But Dr. Craig was, nonethless, arrested and gaoled. It is interesting to note that bail was set at $150. It just so happened that he had only $140 in his pocket.

It may be circumstantial, but one has to bring it to the attention of the members. After the matter did get to court, the case was adjourned and adjourned and adjourned notwithstanding the objections of the counsel for the doctor. Then, of course, subsequently it came out, Mr. Speaker, that eventually the case was adjourned in excess of the eight-day period apparently allowed by The Criminal Code of Canada, and the provincial judges lost jurisdiction over it and the matter died there. Then the Attorney General was asked last year as to why this jurisdiction had been lost.

The Member for Olds-Didsbury asked the question of the Attorney General: "One last supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. What was the final outcome of the charge of fraud?" The final outcome, Mr. Speaker was that the matter was adjourned for too long a period of time. Under the Criminal Code, without the consent of the accused a charge cannot be adjourned for more than eight days, and inadvertently it was adjourned for more than eight days. The charge has been left there. It is finished with there because of that.

Now, it is true that in areas such as this a new charge could be laid, or there are other proceedings that could be followed to bring it back to court. He goes on to say, they didn't do it because they didn't think they should. When one examines the report, Mr. Speaker, it is quite apparent that there has to be a communication gap between the forces administering justice in the province and the Attorney General.

Because on the basis of the report, it is impossible to do other than arrive at a conclusion that the adjournment beyond the eight-day limit was an accident or inadvertent, because the report -- I understand, substantiated by the transcripts of the court -- indicates it was deliberately adjourned. The solicitor for Dr. Craig wanted the matter proceeded with immediately. The judge involved, nonetheless, in spite of his lack of agreement, adjourned it beyond the eight days, and even when this was pointed out to the judge -- on the question of jurisdiction presumably -- the judge still let the adjournment stand.

23-984 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 The report goes on to say that when the information sheet, or whatever it would properly be called, relating to this exercise was examined, it showed that the decision to adjourn had been approved by a separate judge who wasn't in the court that day. Written on the ticket, he had said, "Adjourned with consent", in spite of the fact that the transcript indicated exactly the opposite -- that there had been no consent.

So one would have a great deal of difficulty doing other than arriving at the conclusion that this exercise in legal manipulation was utilized in order to see that the charge was dropped without the government having to face the embarrassment of following it through. Because, on the basis of the report it probably would have indeed been an embarrassment. In the first instance, in order to get evidence, the city police went so far as to plant two undercover agents in the doctor's office to pose as drug addicts. The first one was referred to a volunteer organization.

The second one was given some prescriptions for methadone. In the second case, the police officer used a phony Medicare number. This was the basis for one of the charges against the doctor. The Medicare Act does not hold the doctor responsible for checking the validity of the Medicare number. That is the responsibility of the commission. The only thing that can happen to the doctor is that if the number didn't check out with the computers and the information of the Health Care Insurance Commission, the doctor wouldn't collect for it.

But to base a fraud charge on that evidence, which has got to be considered as cooked-up evidence, obviously would have been quite an embarrassment to the judicial system. Then, Mr. Speaker, the other thing is that there were eight other charges of fraud relating, supposedly, to claims that were put in by Dr. Craig when he was away on holidays. The police didn't even bother to check to find out that another doctor was filling in for Dr. Craig and the billings were put through on the doctor's charge account -- Dr.

Craig's account -- because the payments went to his clinic, and this is done with clinics all through the province. Another doctor had given the service, the charges had gone through under the clinic's name, and they were entirely in order. So one has to wonder exactly what happened and as to whether in the words of the Attorney General, "have I found the slightest indication of any improper motive on the part of any of the people within the department." -- once again I come back to the fact that I hope it's right within the department.

But it's difficult to support the conclusion outside of the department that there wasn't a deliberate exercise underway, to put it in layman's language, to put Dr. Craig out of circulation. So let's cook up a fraud charge and discredit him in this manner. Then when one looks at the fact that a provincial judge deliberately adjourned the case beyond the legal limit with the view of getting it out of the court, ending the matter, one has to question who had what motives in handling this particular matter.

Then when the fraud charges came up -- the criminal negligence charge was laid a day before the fraud charge was supposed to come up. Presumably this was supposed to buy some time until the fraud case could be adjourned beyond the legal limit and get rid of the embarrassment of the fraud charge. Then, after a long detailed period of adjournments and so on, the case finally got to court and the Crown's case on criminal negligence was thrown out of court because of inadequate evidence. I have no doubts, Mr.

Speaker, that there are a lot of legitimate concerns on the part of law officers on the question of drug abuse. One of the accusations against Dr. Craig was that the methadone program was drawing addicts into Edmonton. And undoubtedly the fact that the doctor claimed that drugs were being made available within the Fort Saskatchewan Gaol illegally to inmates did nothing to endear him to the law enforcement officers in the city. But the whole exercise, Mr.

Speaker, stands out, I think, as a real black mark in the minds of the average man so far as the fairness in which justice is administered in the lower courts in the province. And I think if any member of the House were to read the report, or even read a synopsis of it, be he a layman or lawyer, he would also have to be concerned about the matter. And the lack of action then on the part of the government, Mr. Speaker, contrasts very sharply with the questions that have been raised by the report. In my view again, Mr.

Speaker, every member of this Legislature to some extent is on trial, because if this Legislature allows action such as that to

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-985 stand, one has to question where the administration of justice is going in the Province of Alberta. Much more could be said on the matter but, Mr. Speaker, I think in fairness it would require a lot more dissertation to deal with the apparent conflicts that have arisen out of this report.

But on the basis of the report, one cannot do other than arrive at the conclusion, that because a doctor was carrying out a practice -- a procedure that was deemed socially unacceptable by an individual or individuals within the law-enforcement system in the province -- that that person or persons set themselves up as judge and jury, prosecutor, all combined, to use the full force of the law by one means or another, by fair means or foul, to get rid of the doctor.

One cannot do other than conclude that it is certainly a misuse of the powers granted to those responsible for the administration of law and order and justice in the province. I think, Mr. Speaker, that in concluding there is one thing that seems to be common to many of these exercises and matters which have received attention in this particular session of this Legislature. It seems to bring to the fore a common theme, which I sincerely hope isn't becoming the trademark of this government. I don't think they intended it to become the trademark of the government.

But very clearly, in developments that have taken place, in policies that have been announced, it's impossible to arrive at the conclusion that this government is carrying to the extreme the political powers that it acquired when elected to office, and that an element of intimidation comes to the fore when examining the manner in which they wield this power. I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that when one examines the fact that health units are no longer to have any local autonomy, they are not to make any decisions as to the money they are going to spend without direction from the government, there is an element of intimidation there. Because if they object too strenuously, some bureaucrat is going to have the right to see that they just get cut off with even less. By making hospitals solely dependent upon the provincial treasury for funds, I suggest we are faced with the same conclusion that ultimately there is an element of intimidation involved.

If you object too strenuously, we won't give you as much as we are offering you now. Then we go on to municipal incentive grants.

The absence of an arithmetic formula, a mathematical formula to determine the allocation of municipal incentive grants and the differentiation into municipal assistance grants and municipal incentive grants very clearly leaves the bureaucrat with a tremendous amount of power to intimidate local authorities -- "If you buck us too hard, don't go along with how we tell you to do these things and how to do your spending, we will chop off the municipal incentive grant." And this is power that is vested in the policy, at least it is announced so far, if it is maintained.

Once again it is similar to the element of intimidation that is involved in the decision of the provincial government to cut off health units and hospital boards from any element of local taxation. I am not saying that those two exercises may not have some political popularity. But there are lots of things we do that are politically popular which would not be in the test long-term interest of our democratic system, democratic form of government. I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that when one looks at the fact that the government cut off and declined to give the Alberta Fish and Game Association a grant this year, one they have received for some time, there once again is an element of intimidation. It serves as a warning to other volunteer groups, "If you don't go along with what we tell you, and quit criticizing us, if you don't toe the mark, you will get cut off, too." One can't do other than conclude that intimidation is the main objective so that that particular body would quit criticizing the government.

Psychiatrists in the province have criticized the government on its mental health programs. And I understand there has been a reduction in funds being made available in the province for training psychiatrists. Then we come to the question of the use of the RCMP in Slave Lake. And I don't want to belabour it again, other than to say it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that when police forces are used in an exercise such as that, there is an element of intimidation involved.

23-986 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 Now, the latest round in that exercise is the fact that one of the gentlemen involved, Mr. Griesbach, who was told he would get a lease to start raising rabbits in Wabasca, has now been told he has been refused his lease by the Department of Lands and Forests. On the surface, there may be some legitimate reason -- maybe they don't allow anyone to raise rabbits in Wabasca. Wabasca sounds to me like a good place to raise rabbits. AN HON. MEMBER: Have they told the rabbits? MR. HENDERSON: The gentlemen received a letter from the minister telling him he could have the lease.

Now, since it looks like - - since the government has got the door closed on the Slave Lake RCMP incident, they can bring Mr. Griesbach into line too, by ordering him to tear down the buildings and other facilities erected on the land which he was assured by the minister he could have a lease on. Unless the government can come up with an excellent reason for taking this action, one can do nothing other than conclude it is another exercise in intimidation. Even if they can come up with a reason why, the minister wrote him a letter saying he could have the lease.

Then the deputy minister writes him a letter and says he can't have the lease. The man should still have the lease. Either the minister's word is worth something, or it is worthless. If the minister's word is worth nothing, I wonder where our democratic institutions are going. Then we have, Mr. Speaker, the question of the expedient manner in which the government decided to set up an inquiry into the Davy case, because they thought the accusations were unfounded.

And then we contrast that with the refusal of the government to entertain any public action in the matter of the Craig case and the indiscriminate use of police power, which the report by the Human Rights and Civil Liberties Association suggests took place. There is a very common note that runs through all these exercises. Mr. Speaker, I don't suggest -- at least I hope I don't -- it is not to be concluded, that the events which I have enumerated and the action taken upon them have been deliberately premeditated in an attempt to intimidate all the parties or individuals involved.

Very clearly, the manner in which this government has chosen to wield its political power -- the manner in which they are using it to bring bodies, groups, organizations, and individuals into line if they do not toe the line, raises some very serious doubts which can only lead to the conclusion that the government must examine exactly, how on earth it got into these predicaments that produced the results we are talking about. There are too many of them to ignore. They simply cannot be ignored. I am not able to judge at the moment, Mr.

Speaker, whether human rights legislation was brought into the House in anticipation of exercises such as this, anticipating that we would not need it to deal with actions such as this -- or the good intentions expressed in the bill of human rights are not well- intended and the public in the final analysis will be required to judge the government on what it has done as opposed as to what it has stated are its good intentions. Thank you. MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, may I first of all take this opportunity to express my sincere appreciation to you, Mr.

Speaker, for the elegant and fair manner with which you so admirably uphold the tradition of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, a heritage in itself, and you are enriching it. The capability of our Provincial Treasurer -- the hundreds of thousands of dollars alone in interest savings never before realized or considered are ample witness to the tremendous stature he already has achieved and augurs well for the fiscal future of our province. Congratulations, hon. Member for Edmonton Centre, your constituents must be proud of you.

As minister of a department, I would also like to state publicly my gratitude and admiration to the deputy minister, the branch heads and the employees, and permit me to give just one example. The father of my deputy minister had passed away -- and by the way, he was one of the most respected pioneer ranchers in southeastern Alberta. After attending the funeral service I overheard that the rancher's family in general thought nothing of rising at 4 a.m., looking after a huge ranch and then retiring at 11 p.m. the same day.

This at least somewhat explained to me then the 16-hour days my deputy thinks nothing of working, because after all, anytime I call on him for his time it is always there immediately, without hesitation, 7 days a week.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-987 Considering also the unexcelled cooperation of the branch heads and employees of my department, you can well imagine then one of the reasons why I so confidently represent the Department of Culture, Youth and Recreation. The civil servants in my department, Mr. Speaker, are second to none. As I have mentioned so often in this Legislature, people are business, and interesting though such business may be, having people constantly coming to see me is a challenge, especially when they are troubled by the basic problems of life.

One day, to give an example, a young lady came to ask if I could help her gain admittance to a home for unwed mothers. Sympathetic though I was, I asked why she came to see me. "Well," she said, "Aren't you the minister of recreation?" As for the problems in office in general, Mr. Speaker, I have one that I would think must be unique. This past year we decided to take to the road a theatre for penitentiaries. Well, at this particular penitentiary here in Alberta, our drama people discovered a man of outstanding talent in the matter of staging plays, mind you, acting in them, directing the cast and so forth.

Unfortunately -- if that is the proper word -- just as drama in this particular penitentiary was reaching an all-time high with the inmates, the new star had finished paying his debt to society and was about to be released. However, he had fallen so much in love with theatre work that he generously offered to come back once or twice a week to make sure the show went on, so to say. Now a problem with penitentiaries, if that is the right word, is that no matter how talented you may be in acting, you are not encouraged to return at all. They really don't want you back, not even for a friendly visit.

This was a dismaying situation, Mr. Speaker, from the point of view of our drama division, but in this instance they were able to get special permission from Ottawa for the man to return at regular intervals, unescorted of course, and to continue the good work of the theatre among the inmates. I suspect, Mr. Speaker, that maybe because we have all had our share of problems in this life, so much so sometimes that we scarcely know where to turn, everyone here has a certain sympathy both for the unwed mother and the penitentiary inmate.

In essence, such sympathy and such caring is what the arts and the work of my department is all about. In the long run it scarcely matters what any of us do here, unless we do it with people in mind. We can say in truth with the poet, as mentioned a few months ago in the Edmonton Journal: Why build our cities glorious, When man unbuilded goes? In vain we build the world Unless the builder also grows. This brings me to some of the plans and accomplishments of the Department of Culture, Youth and Recreation, and I hope you will hear me with pride, for in this field, Mr.

Speaker, Alberta is unmistakably one of the leaders. In the vital world of our young people, to begin with, how delighted I am to report to you that as I travel this province from north to south and from east to west, I find with few exceptions a calibre of youth such as any country could envy. The freaks and the copouts are few. Alberta youth, in terms of ideals, character and generosity of spirit, are everything any of us could ask for in the generation that in a few short years will be taking over this land. But of course such an ideal does not happen by accident.

We help it happen, assisted by countless volunteers and other interested citizens. We are going to have Alberta summer and winter games. We hope to build with fitness a zest for life. In our budget we are looking at programs like the Swiss jogging trail, a healthy and wholesome family sport especially for the cities. Through a program called Operation Handshake, rural and urban young people will have an opportunity to become friends; not just live like neighbours, but visit each other.

While participation in the Young Voyageurs Program gives them a similar friendship with the rest of Canada, in fact, our students guides conducted tours of historical, cultural and recreational areas of over 2,600 out of province young voyageurs last year alone. The Student Exchange Program played host to other students from all across Canada. If all this sounds like fun, so be it. Fun isn't only the best of leisure, it is the finest educational technique ever devised. And the result of course is shared with others, in fact, with virtually every segment of our community as I hope to make clear.

We have 242 volunteers, young people working with senior citizens, hospital patients and pre-school children. And the miracle of what has worked in human

23-988 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 hearts, both young and old, is perhaps best summed up by a high school student who wrote after last summer's work: I have been training myself since I was small not to show emotions or let people know how I felt. This summer I learned how reassuring a touch could be, how much could be felt by holding a hand, how much could be gained by looking into the eyes of a speechless old man. That, Mr. Speaker, is also education. That is how to close any generation gap. That is caring.

That is what enriches life, not just for the old man, but for those young of heart, those who sometimes think of us as callous just because they have never been given a chance to show how much they care. Just to mention again, the Girl Forest Guides engage in activities of direct or indirect benefit to their communities and to the province as a whole as much as to these young people themselves. As a simple example, 70 members of the Okotoks club got recognition from their community for putting out a grass fire near their town.

You will appreciate that these young people make a truly worthwhile contribution to their communities when I tell you by way of another example that the Sherwood Park Girl Guides received a George Spargo Award for outstanding contributions to Conservation Alberta, the first time this award was ever given to such a group of girls. I say such programs for youth repay a thousand-fold the monetary investment we make. The result is that ideal combination of a healthy mind in a healthy body and sometimes they put adults, just slightly, to shame.

At Fort McMurray, by the way, some of our young people were cleaning up the campground at Centennial Park when a couple of men drove up in a truck to quaff a bottle or two of beer. When they began tossing the empties outside the cab the boys walked over, explained they were trying to keep the park clean so everyone could enjoy it. One of the men, his face red, climbed out of the truck to give the fellows a couple dollars and told them that he was sorry. I repeat, Mr.

Speaker, Alberta is giving its young people the break, the opportunity they deserve that is rightfully theirs, and it can only be regarded as the best investment the province can make, an investment in its own young people. The first concerns of a 16-year-old girl in Girouxville in the Peace River country when she attended a 4-H Conference was to get to know more about the environment. Maybe all we have to really do is get out and look at the beauty that has been given us by God here in Alberta to appreciate its worth or maybe we merely have to give youth responsibility and a chance.

Anyhow, determination was born within that girl to perserve this natural beauty for Alberta forever. And armed with descriptive slides that girl began within her own community giving her ideas on how to fight pollution. Soon she was being invited to address adults in service clubs and farm organizations all over the Peace River country. It takes only a few dollars because of our group programming to train a girl like this. Tell me if it isn't the finest investment in sheer economic values any government could ever make.

Another story has to do with the City Life Exposure Program, basically intended for our native children in the North. Through it, and usually for the first time in their lives, these children are able to see an airport, a train, go out to a game farm, ride an escalator, and then they go back and tell everybody else what they have seen. One little seven-year-old, hearing about the wonders of Edmonton from a child who had been here, asked if the lights of the city could possibly be something like sparkling stars.

We forget what it's like to be a little child, to dream dreams and to be deprived of having those dreams come true. Maybe this little boy will remember somebody cared enough to show him the lights of a beautiful city, because somebody cared. That is the sort of thing that comes to my mind when I read, as I did in The Edmonton Journal of February 21, of crime statistics for the city of Edmonton and among them the disclosure that in the last year there were 81 suicide victims and 91 who tried but failed. But how many of these 172 were juveniles, I don't know. All I know is they were people for whom the bright

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-989 lights, even life itself, no longer mattered enough. Or more important, nobody cared. I feel it is the job of my department to share and to care -- the two go hand-in-hand. Forgetting what I said at the beginning of my speech, Mr. Speaker, about the lady in search of an unwed mothers' home, I don't suppose it is necessary to point out to the hon. members that recreation is, today, very serious business. It is the health secret of our youth. It is one of the real rewards of retirement.

Here, in terms of good health for our senior citizens alone, is a fantastic economic saving in the physical and mental ailments that disappear in direct ratio to the interest people are getting out of living. Thus, I tell you with pride, at the end of this fiscal year the government will have spent $1,400,000 on capital grants to recreation alone, the highest ever in the history of Alberta. Where is this money going? What is it being used for? The old argument that people can make their own recreation just doesn't hold anymore.

Real recreation today involves people, for example, in sporting events such as the planned Alberta summer and winter games. It involves places, as in the development of snowmobile courses and trails. It involves training, as in water safety. It involves human relationships -- the young sometimes teaching the old, who during their lifetime have never learned how to play, and the old teaching the young, as with old-timers teaching kids the secret of fly- fishing on a sunlit stream, and in the process finding the joy of youth again. By way of simple examples, we are allocating funds for snowmobile safety training.

Not much really in terms of economic investment, but a meaningful investment in terms of human life and safety, as well as in terms of our ecology. For at our snowmobile training programs, not only first aid, but winter survival, and the skill techniques of the sport itself are taught. And we also emphasis the effect of the rapidly growing winter sport on vegetation, forest life and wildlife itself. Let me mention also another fast-growing Alberta winter sport -- cross country skiing. It is an ideal physical-fitness sport, but it is also less expensive for our citizens than the traditional downhill skiing.

Again it involves leadership training, which means some financial help from the government which is, after all, in existence to serve its citizens by helping people help themselves. So during the year more than a thousand Albertans receive leadership training in recreational activities ranging from cross-country skiing, to canoeing, wilderness camping and survival, photography and scuba diving. Statistics mean so little, until they are translated into human lives. So, Mr. Speaker, may I once again translate figures into realities.

An Alberta boy working his way around the world fell under the spell of the magic of the Australian moonlight and married one of the girls from Down Under. They were married seven years ago and had two little children, when word reached him in Sydney that his father was dying. It cost the man his savings to bring his family over here. Here he had to work as a labourer. The rent for a little run-down house took most of his salary. She got homesick for the Outback country. As family arguments developed, so did an ulcer in the little daughter's stomach. The little boy became sullen and dejected.

Medical expenses mounted until his wife, losing weight and very depressed had to be placed on sedation. One night she heard about the recreation program in her community. She saw the women's keep-fit program on television. Because she had been a dancing instructor in Australia before, she broke down and cried. But she tried to attend the classes, and she did. In fact she did so well that today she herself is an instructor. Her husband coaches a hockey team, and last year the little girl was at the top in her class. That is an extraordinary story, Mr. Speaker, but it is a very meaningful story.

No family fights, no ulcers, no broken lives. A recreation program here in Alberta, and the price, a few pennies. Recreation, of course, is for all. One of our workers found a man of 70 living alone -- another one of these for whom life ended when his work was ended - - but with skilful manoeuvring it was found that the man had poor vision. He was persuaded to get glasses and then to take a bus to the senior citizens recreation centre. He has a new life now. He loves good reading, plays cribbage, and takes his own turn showing the newcomers just what retirement can mean when somebody cares.

23-990 ALBERTA HANSARD March 19, 1973 You know, of course, that Alberta came forth with a crop of noteworthy athletes in 1972. In fact 23 Albertans attended the Munich Olympics as participants. I ask you to visualize a man stepping up to the winner's podium at the Southern Alberta Games last summer at Bow Island. It took a little effort for him to climb up and get his gold medal, for trap shooting at that -- but that was understandable after all, because he was 87 years old. If you think that is unusual, Mr. Speaker, let me add that the silver medal went to a man of 84 and the bronze medal to a fellow over 60.

"You got outclassed," Brent Seeley, a sports announcer said to this man, when he was handing him the bronze medal. "Well," said the 60 year old, "when I'm as old as they are, maybe I'll be as good too." We are getting so many award winners, Mr. Speaker, of one kind and another that it is something of an endurance contest to recognize them at our annual achievement awards banquet. But I have to tell you of just one more, an eight- year-old boy named Allan Zimmerman who received special mention last year at the National Championship Skiing Meet in Denver, Colorado. To me, Allan is rather special.

He lost one leg and so he is skiing with a wooden one. Mr. Speaker, the work of my department handles so many areas of human concern and development that it is absolutely impossible to do more than just merely mention a few of them here. One that I very definitely must include is the creation of our new Cultural Heritage Division. It was born specifically from the wishes of the delegates attending the Cultural Heritage Conference last June. Its work, of course, is people -- the pioneer people, the good people from which the generous, self-reliant mosaic, that is Alberta today as a whole, has sprung.

This new Cultural Development Division is publishing a small, rather unpretentious magazine, Heritage, with a mailing list in excess of 3,000 copies whose readers even reside in such places as Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, and London, England. Teachers are using it in their social studies courses, and I would emphasize that essentially Heritage is the voice of our pioneers, a multicultural mosaic. Surely it is significant, Mr. Speaker, that the federal government has suddenly awakened to the lead that Alberta has given in recognition of its cultural heritage resources.

I would assume that it has anyway, for on the date of January 15, 1973, a newspaper story tells us how the government in Ottawa is commissioning ethnic histories of the Ukrainians, Arabs, Chinese, Dutch, East Indians, and even the Scots under a $200,000 writing program. Mr. Speaker, we did that work last year. I am not criticizing them, of course. In fact I commend them. I might add that they had a number of observers in Edmonton for our heritage conference in Ottawa, and the Cultural Heritage Council is likewise patterned along the lines and suggestions given at that conference last June.

This talk of our cultural heritage naturally brings to mind the key role of our Provincial Museum and Archives in preserving so much of that heritage. Every Sunday, people of all ages flock through its doors, enjoying especially the various ethno-cultural performances, folk dancing, and other programs presented in the auditorium theatre. There are capacity crowds now, literally, and they include all ages from tiny toddlers to great-grandmothers. The museum exhibits, of course, continue to attract visitors from within and without the province. It is rather interesting at times to overhear the comments.

Likewise, a museum of all our exhibits is being readied to hit the road in 1974, bringing heirlooms and artifacts of our past to rural Alberta communities. In short, to all our people. This 'museumobile' will be part of the Ace Caravan Exhibit taking the wonderful world of the past to and through all of Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to inform you, and again with more than usual pleasure, that in connection with the Glenbow Alberta Institute, I have just been told by Mr. A. T. Baker, president, that the new museum in Calgary is well on its way.

Without any doubt it will be one of the finest on the North American continent, a museum that will truly stand as a cultural monument to the Alberta people. We have in the formative stage at this time, a program we broadly envisage as a cultural heritage festival. This festival program, happily, will involve virtually all the creative talent within our province, artists, performers, musicians, et cetera, whose work and talent may be put on display for the benefit of all our people.

We will assist in funding, but other arts bodies, such as Festival Calgary, the Red Deer International Folk Festival, and the Banff Festival will provide the real nucleus for the staging and the success of such programs. Our Lands and Forests Department will be involved, at least indirectly. In fact, it even will include arts programs in local community affairs.

March 19, 1973 ALBERTA HANSARD 23-991 Mr. Speaker, I have scarcely mentioned the work of our Cultural Development Branch, the growing demand by all sections of our society for its services, and the increasing recognition of its long-delayed role in the lives of our people. Let me just mention two of its divisions, that of Arts and Crafts, and that of Creative Writing, and I think you will be truly aware of the strides this branch has taken in the 18 months or so since we formed this government.

When I was appointed a minister of the Crown, I was appalled to find photographs hanging on every office wall in this building. Mind you, they may have been good, but they were photographs. This in a province where the fame of the Banff School of Fine Arts had spread around the world. Well today, I can tell you there are some 300 pieces of original Alberta art hanging in the government offices in this building. That, Mr. Speaker, is the kind of tangible recognition, I think, artists in Alberta will truly appreciate.

Further, I think it is a wise investment on the part of this government, because art throughout the world has skyrocketed in value in recent years. Even paintings by North American artists are beginning to command prices near the million dollar mark, a figure once reserved for the old masters of Europe. It is with real pride that I tell you how well our Alberta Art Foundation Act has been received. I shall mention one donation only, a series of 18 original sketches by one of Canada's most celebrated artists, A. Y. Jackson.

Gifts to the Crown I say, are proof positive of the desire of our citizens to join with the government in building up our own art treasures before it is forever too late. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I shall mention the work of our Creative Writing Division, which has been acclaimed not only here in Canada, but hailed in such sophisticated foreign magazines as for instance, Bunte Illustrierte, and Berliner Tagesspiegel in Germany, and Schweizer Illustrierte, a very famous Swiss magazine. Through community and regional writers workshops, creative writing technique has been brought to all parts of the province.

Through low-cost correspondence courses, instruction is going to shut-ins and those isolated in remote areas. I am told the only handicap is there are not enough professional writer-instructors to tutor the eager beginners. This coming year, instruction and financial help will be given to our native peoples, and particularly in a program of the Cree language textbooks. I might just mention in conclusion that this Creative Writing Division, the first within a government in Canada is at the moment assessing the results of its first Search-For-A-New-Alberta-Novelist Competition.

I think it speaks something for our division that it has obtained as adjudicators in the competition, Dr. W. G. Hardy, an author himself and a former Dean of Classics at university who instructed many of the great men in Canada's public life, including, I believe, the hon. Premier. The adjudicators also include Dr. Walter H. Johns, a noted educator and former president of the University of Alberta. And as a third member of its committee, a semi-retired publisher, H. Lovat Dickson.

Now, if you will realize that its combination was restricted to Albertans and to those who had never published a novel before, and if you will consider how long in human labour it takes to write a novel, the weeks and months of painstaking labour, you will surely find it fascinating to guess at the number of entries received. You might guess probably at 10, maybe at 15, but the incredible total, Mr. Speaker, is 98. About seven million words of writing, and of such a calibre that all concerned, especially Dr. Johns and Dr. Hardy, are hard put to suppress their praise at least until the adjudication is completed.

Artistic talent, Mr. Speaker, comes slowly to appreciation. But we have it in Alberta in blessed abundance. And we have

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	19730319
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L17 S2 19730319 1430 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	aeaa4219a4a3f3768b3ecd5707092f9cf8aea3a9

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