'lOL. l PREL.I."'INARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 P . M. - 6:00 P.M. WEDNESDAY, JULY 18, 1979 NO. 4

July lS,l97~ Tape No. lOJ .!!,H-1 ':'he House !!let at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEJUCElt: (Simms) Order, please! MR. ~= ltr. Speaker, I am not sure this is a point of order or a point of privileqe or a l)Oint of info:z::mation. On yesterday's Order Paper, Sir, there appeared a question that I put on there and there is se~~~ethinq left oat, the typist left somethinq out of the question.

I want to find out if I have to resubmit the question t.o t.he minister or will the minister just take now what I a going t.o say, take note of it, if and then in p:rcviclin9 the answer I think he will probably feel more at ease. What wu left out of the question, wha.t I ·.ranted on question n1llllber two, Sir, was a prcqress report; (

a) whether the case was ca~npleted, whether it. is continuing or whether the case is closed. That is all the info:z::mation I was as.kinq the hen. qentleman and I am sure t.."ie hen. qentleman reallzes !:hat the question, as it stands now, the hon. qentleman could not giV!I me an answer, but now I believe he will be able t.o give me an answer. ~o!R. SPE1JCER: ( Silmns ) MR. O'l"!'ENHEIMER: Is that aqreed2 Agreed. STA'l'EMEN'l'S BY MINISTERS Mr. SPEAXER: !\.c;rricultural and !Jorthern Development. MR. GOtmiE: The hen. minister ffJr !tural, 't'hanlc you, Mr. Speaker. l'.r.

Speaker, I aa pleased to announce that Mr. 'l.'e.r%Y Healey has been appointed Assistant Deputy Minister of Rural Development in rii'f department. As Director of 1tt1ra.1 Develop~~~ent, Mr Healey has had a very close association with rural Newfoundland and Labrador and was instrUMental in the formulation and implementation of many of our Rural Development programmes. He is forty--one years of aqe, born and raised in Grand Falls. Before coming to the Department of 246

July 18' 1979 Tape ~o. 103 AH-2 ~~. GOUDIE: Rural Development he was Director o£ Field Services with the Department of COIIIIIIW!i ty and Social Development and,prior to that,oireceor of Community and Leadership oevelopment in the Department af Education. He came to 90venu~~~tnt fr0111 the teach..i.r.q profession. Over the past ten years he has hacl a very direce in'V'Ol Ve!aent in the Reqional Development Association !!ovement. This provided h.im with an insight into the desires and u;:irations of the people of ~al Newfoundland and Labrador.

The position of Assistant Deputy Minister of F.ural Development ia a key position within qove:rnment. This position . ..,ill be responsible for the forznulation of proqrammes and implementation of policies that this 90va:mment will be encouraqinq in the future. P!tESEN'l'lNG PE'riTl:ONS ~'iR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. BENN!:'!"l': The hon. m.mber for St.Bar.be. Mr. Speaker, ! rise to present a petition from 875 residents of Trout River, Woody <'oint, Shoal Brook, Birchy Head and Glenburnie. The prayer of the petition is that Route 431 be upqraded and paved. 247

July 18, 1979 Tape l04 ~c - 1 :·IR. BE."'NETT: The prayer reads: "'ll'e, ehe voters of Txoue River, ~oody E'oint, Shoa.l Srock, Elirchy s:ead, Glen.burnie, do s~ronqly pxotest the continued lack of response to our refused requests since early 1970 for the ~qrading and paving of Rcuee 431." That is f%'0111 Wiltcndal.e to Trout River. "In view of the importance of this xoad to t:ha local residants as •.rell as to tourists, we demand i.mmediaee action by ~th provincial and fedaral c;ovemments. As citizens, we insist on our rights to qood xoads. " Mr• Speaker, I lalow this area.

I have evidence of requests havinq lleen made for the last ten years. It is one of the oldast roads in the Province. New raa.ds llave been built all around; o.Lc:\ roads h.ave been paved ana ~qracied. My prec:\ecessor, the then member for tlla district, lll&cie statlllllltDts saying that tenders were being called. It is one of the mcst bea.utifu.L areas of Newfound.Land 1 famous for tourist traffic. It is part of the Gros ~=e National E';u:k, Mr. Speaker. Why? •.ve continUAlly as.k., Why? And we ask aqain. Mr.

Speaker, I as.k. that this petition be laid on the table of the House and. referred to the depart:mant to •.rhic:h it is rei.a.teci. MR. SPEAKER: (S~ I aay de Verc:\e. The h.on. the member for Trinity - :.m. F. rowE: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to support the petition so ably ptesented by my colleaque representing the districe of st. aa.r.be on beila.Lf of 875 residents o-f Trout River, Woody !?oint, Shoal arock, Birchy s:ead and Glen.buznie for t."'e complete and immediate upqradinq and. paving of the Rcute 431 !rom Wiltond.ale to Trout !ti.var.

Sir, I have trava.Lled. t.'la.t roa4 many a time myse.lf when I represented the oriqinal district of St. Ela.rbe llarth. I had the pleasure-and d.anqer, I qusss -of. rea.Lly travallinq thae road and I llliqht say ehat. thae particular area of the l?:ovince, Mr. Speaker, h.u trl!lll8l1daUS tourise potential anci I am sure that lllilrlY tourist dallars are lost to that part of the Province eac."J. year simply because of t."l.e fact l:..'lat <:ourists - Newfoundland and Labradorian t:.ourists and Canadian tourists and American tourists-realize that they have to travel over a 248

:uly lci, B79 .·LR. 'E'. RUw:C:: very -u.sty roaQ. "'> I repeat, Sir, t:.'le road. mus1: represent !1lAZlY millions of doll-u-s in ?Ot.ential tourist. <io.LJ.ars t:o t:his Province. And. it seems t:o me, Sir, as well thal: ciurinq ~~~any feciaral ~ C~rovincial election campaigns that r:.llat particular road. seems t:o ila.ve some sort of a. t:end.er ~all during- every elecl:ion, yet wa never sea the contract coming forth. .'lnd ::;o I would. nope that t."le :-li.nister restxln&i.ble fo:c Transportation ana.

CoiiiiiiWlica.tions (;ir. c. 3rettl will see fit t:o support this p.u-ticular Eletition oecause ::he resilients of t:llese c:ommu.nities ceJ:ta..inly deserVe to •lave tru.s road paved.. I seem to remember even l:lefo:ce ConfecieJ:ation, Sir, !laVing t:a.ken a triLin to LleeJ: Lake and ta.ki.nq !:hat. road to Wood.y J?oin1: myself, so .1.t must represent a very old. road in this Province and it is a.lxlul: timlil t:llat it becomes paved.. And. I wilcle-1\eartecily er.u.orse and. sup_i?o.rt !:he petition as presenteci by t.1.e 1118111ber for ii t. aarl:le (}lr.

T. 3annett) _ in the hope tila.t the .1inis't.Br of Transponation an&:i CoiiiiiiWl.ic:ations will lie .tne same thinq. AN iiO..'I. ••IEiiBER: ··lR. S.PEAi.<ER: (Silllms) Slillle Isle. .1 R. E • ~B:c: Rl'S 1 minister wisn to - i\<~ dOH. 1-IE:·IBER: ~1.~. E. ROBE.R!rS: ngt wish to speak. MR. S. NEARY : :lR.. o. • 'RU,BER'.rS 1 tie aJ: , he a&. - The non. meDJi;jar for the StriLi1: of Sir, I will not be la.nq - does the No. 0 .K. The minister, I gat:ner, does No responaez-vous.

I will be quite orief, Sir, bul: I do ..,ant to say a. word in support of the petition,pa..rtia.lly on its own :nerits which I t:.h.i.M are substantial as nas been well ad.vance<i- l:ly ~ ~r wo J?resenteci tne petition, my fri~tnli frCIII ;l1e district ol st. aar.be, And partially because , of course, r:ry own district is contiguous to nis and., if act, to drJ.Ve t:o lilY district I nave the j?leasure of d.rivinq tile enti.re lengtn of t:11e district of st. Ba.rbe 249

.,.,; - 2 :!&. ::. ~BERXS: from wherever it begins ~or~ oi .Jeer !..i.Ae to where my own distri~:~ begins a.~ tile c0111111uni~y of.

Slue ~~v~ ana the community of Pond cove. one of ~ real rL"CQlems of. ~s Province tcciay, Sir, Lo t..;:= inequities which exist between one portion or a.ngt:iler. aere, zor example, in ~s .;:>art of t.he Provinc-.uui I = net say t:ilis critically- tile i~~ oi Transportation a.r4 CcCIIIIU11ications (,1r. c. arettl las let a. con ,;rae~ t:.c pave t:.ile wit.ch­ hazel acaci which is a. very short stretch of read. t:.:lat ;.;;ms frCIII no cCIIIliiiW1.ity tc no coiiiiiW1ity 1 it simply links t:wo roads. It:. u.n:.s t:ha Olci Broilli Cove iiailli to aeachy Cove.

There are maybe three or four hcWies along tba thre-fourUl.s of a. mile t:.hat ~e Witchhaze.l ~ad. runs, one of ··mich I am happy to say, I wtU.ieve, ,;...; occuppied by the toD~ar Premier of tn.is i?rovinc:e, anci. t:hat road. a.nci. ochers are being paved a.nci. I do net complain a.t .U.l about t:nat. I tnink !:hat i.;.; good. ;iJIJDy, '"hen you get NOrth o.f Oeer !:.aka the pavement i:lcqin.:o to 1:nin out a.llli when you ;o North of Slue Cove t:.he .;:>avemant beCQDies just about non-existent, ji1St about ncn~tlint, for same reason.

And. there you have got cQIIIIIIImities of t:wo a.mi three and. four a..nd five thousa.Ni people, that many people livinq within a.n area, ~1r. Speaker, wbg nave no pavement a.t all. 250

JLll.y 19, 197~ Tape :-<o. 106 ow - 1 :·~. E:. ROBERTS: now I do not speculate as to w~y that is so,I simpl.y note that it is so, Sir, and I say that it is inequit­ abl.e anc!' I say that people are more and I!Cre coming to realize it, people are coming to ascribe, in their own mind,mctives and speculation as to why this- is so. And I would in supporting the ;n:ayer of the petition oresented tc the House fl:Qm my friend f:z:Qm St. Bartle (1-'r. Bennett) t:hat the merits of t!'le petition should al.one cOIIUII8nd it eo the attention of ehe qovert~~~~~~nt anci eo a favo~able response.

BUl:, Sir, even if the petition b.ad no merit I would say that the pl:Qblem of i nequity, the prcblem of the fact that the benefits of public services are not being made avail~le equally to every part of this Pro .. ·ince 1 t.!:lat factor alone, Sir, in itself is enough that I would h~pe the Mizlister of Transportation and COIIIIIIWlicat:ions (z.<.r. Brett) in due co~se will respond, as he ought to, by announcing that the work as J?rayed for in this petition is to qo ahead and to go ahead in full steam. Thank you, Sir. SOME: ffON • MEMBERS : Hear, b.ear! MR.

SPEAI\:ER. (SIMMS) : I would like tc take this opportunity, before moving on, to welcome on behalf of all hon. m8mDers in this House a distinguished visitor in the galleries in the persons of Mr. & Mrs. Reverend ROnald Leslie, the Anglican )tinister from :-ortune. SOME HON. ~ERS: :-IR.SP~: :·!P.. ~RSHALL: Hear, hear! NOTit:=:S OF MOTION Th.e hon. !'resident of the Council. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on t~rrow move amendments to the Standing Orders cf this ~on.

Rouse and specifically Standing Orders 2 , 4 (c) , 7, St:.andinq Or<ler 14, .<;t'"-!'.~ing Order 49, Standing Order 53,82,94,87,92i the revocation of Standing Orc!er 116 and replacement by Standing Orders 116 to 1;22. ~. SpeaJcer, it is normal to read out the full text of a resolution but I do not presume to take the House's time . I think - can deal with this t:tare effectively at another time. I do not want to transgress on Private '·!ember's 'Jay . 251.

!'!R. S~: (SIMMS) ~.~; Tape HO. 106. EM - 2 ORAL QUESTIONS The hon. !:.e!lder of the opposition. Mr. Speaker, I have a question fer the hon. the Premier. I underSQD<l t.'\at he had D~Htinqs t:h.is day w~t.'l a deleo;ation f%'0111 BUc:hans aDd I am woneerinq if he is in a position at this time to r;ive ta5 any indication as to just how those meetinqs went or if 1\e was able to r;ive aay 1111!1aSI1res of reassu;-ance to t...,e geopla who are so justi£iably conceznecl about the penclinq lay-of~s and other W1eaployment problems in that area? 252

July 18, 1979 Tape No. 107 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Premier . PREMIER PECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, I !:hank the Leader of !:he Opposition for asking !:he question. Yes, this morning I met with a five man d.elegation from tlle auc:.bans coiiiiiiW!.ity, a young five man delegation, young men, ~ingle men and young married men, who are concerned about tlle unemployment situation in their area.

I think the five of them represent about for<:y or forty-two young men in SUchans who have worked. on various things both on the Mainland. and around. the Province and. who are now unemployed. and. who add to an unemployment situation whicn will grow in Buc:hans as miners are la.id off there. Accompanying the five man delegation from Buchans was their member for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight) and we had a frank discussion about the concerns that they have for employment opportunities in the Province. I think, Mr. Speaker, that this is a very, very special case.

The young men are all in their twenties and. early thirties. They were not miners there in the mine but quite a few of them have grown up there and. have gotten trades and so on. So what we have done, Mr.

Speaker, is I have designated an individual who works with the Oepart:mant of La.bour and Manpower to meet ~ith the delegation and to go to Buchans wit.~ them tomorrow and to sit down and identify the trades and the education and the age and so on of all the forty or forey-two,to get a full identification of their trades and of their labour preference, to talk to McNamara and other people on the Hi.nds Lake site and sea whether in fact we can have some of the people who have trades which are appropriate to the operation that is going on at !iinds Lake, to get some of them on there, as a special case, number one.

Number two, to review all other government programmes that are in existence, especially ·the forestry programme because there are some of the young men from auehans who have forestry trades,and see if we can get them involved in some of the forestry programmes that are on- 253

Jul.:· 16 , 1979 ~ ape lio. 107 l!'REMIER PECia'ORb: going and any other activities around the E'rovince where we might be able to help. So we have taken action • I t.'l.ink the del.eqati.Qn were pleased with the meeting and we hope that we can pursue this nCiiW over the neu twenty-fcnu: or thirty-s~ hours and to malte an ea.rnest atte~~~Pt t:o assist the- ~ men in providing employment o~ties for th&lll a.rOWid the Province. $. ~ (Simms) 1 MR. FI...IGB'1': '!'he hQA. llli&lllber for Windsor-Bw:baAs. Mr.

Spealcer, I would appreciate a couple of supplemimtaries on that pa%ticu.lar issue l:'aised by the lloD. the Leader of the Opposition, as it is very topical and obvioualy very important to one of the towns I represent. Az!.d I want to say that as the Premier indica.ted I did attend that l!leetiaq this mo:rninq and I would say to the House that the Meeting was held in a spirit of co-ope:rat.:i.oil and 254

July 18 . 1979 Tape 108 !?K - 1 )1r, 2'1iqht: I am appreciative and so ~e the fellows from Buchans. aut I wonder if the J?rl!lllier would indicate as he knows that the problem we are looking at right now, the forty to fi.fty young men IJllemployed in auchans comes as a result of - this is not the main work force of Buchans, this is not part of the people who will lose their jobs in the next three weeks, these are the sons of ~ers, young men who could not get work on Hinds Lake.

On one hand it is perceived in auchans and the area that the reason that there is only one !DAn from the town of Buchans working in Hinds Lake comas as a result of discrimination, total discrimination ~y the contractors, the prime contractor being McNamara and then passin~ down the subcontractors. I am wondering if the J?remier has indicated to the contractors that that is indeed the feelinq, and it is very easily perceived as such and that that kind of an attitude by major contractors in this E'rovince does not set well with the people of Buehans, Central ~evfoundland or this House of Assembly? MR.

SPEll.KER (MR. SL'5MS) : The hon. the l?remier. E'REMIER PECXFORD: Two points arisinq out of that question, Mr. Speaker; one, I tally appreciate that the unemploytDent situation in Suchans is not merely the question of forty or forty-ewe young men who are the sons of miners who are looking for work. The problem in Buchans is much larger than that and will affect miners who will be laid off. The saving qrace, I guess, Mr.

Speaker, on that is simpl y - and it is not a pleasant one , but I guess it is some saving grace - that we have some time to work on that because we have a Manpower officer on sta.ff full-time to try to help these miners as they qet laid off permanently, and they are getting severance pay and lJIC .

So they de have some revenue coming in and that gives us an opportunity, a little few weeks and months to work on their problems, With the young men we do not~ they are about to run out of their OIC and they are in a much more desperate kind of situation in the time frame of six months or a year, number one. so I am sensitive towards that and I understand that the problem is much larger than forty young men. 255

Ju y 3, '379 Tape lOS ?!( - 2 P:re~~ier :9eckford: Sec.ondl.y, as I indicated to the young 1118n this morninq 1that we woW.d ha.ve people in the Department of Labo= and MaDpower contact !Jewioundland Hyd:O and McNamara and indicat'! to ~ the feelinq that tbe peopl~ of Buchans ancl that these younc; men have towards t;he hirim] p:ractices of McNamara and t:he other cont._-actQrs on site anci see whether we can, and this is a veey special. kind of situation that we have of forty or fcrey-t.wo younq man Whicb in one cemunity like that on top of blmdreds COIIIinq ,off tbe employment rolls <re:~;y shortly 1if there is sc:me way we canaot have a relaxation of tbe l:ind of hiring practices that hav4it been iri practice up there now for the last year and a half.

So we. will indi~te to the main . , 256

July 18,1979 Tape ~lo. 109 AH-1 ?FEMIER !'Ecn"ORD: contractor the concer:n that both the hon. member has and the people from Buchans,who expressed it to me in no uncertain terms this morninq. MR. SPEAXE:R: (SL"'

G) Lal'oile. !o'.R. :'LIGHT : MR. SPElUCE:R: hon. member yields. Windsor--Buchans. MR. Ft.IGH'l': A supplement~. 'I'he hon. member for A further sup~lementarJ. A supplement~. The The hon. member for ! thank the Premier for his answer but, as ne indicated, t:.."J.e problelll t.'ti.s mominq, the one discussed at the meetinq just simply beqs the main questioRo that in twa to three wee~ there will be 166 men pennanently laid off, which constitutes half of the Buc:hans worlc force,and the rut not lalowinq what is in store for the111 af~r tna start of 1980.

I would a.sJt the Prudar if he •110a.ld be prepared to indicate to the !'louse in view of the Oyer COIIIIIIission in the first place 1 and then in view of the Buchans Taslc Force Report and in view of all of the raCCIIIII!endations made and cQIIIII!itlllents made by past qovernments ,would the Premier be prl'!parad to indicate in the HoWle just wh&t continuanc:y ;~lans or what plans the qovernment have to alleviate the kind of a crisis si tua~n that we are ~oinq to be loolcinq at in !h:chans both econOIIIically and socially in the next • well, certainly in t.."'le next three week:: with the lnss of 166 pemanent jobs?

The aqe qrl:lun of those people will go f:rom sixty down. Just what plans have this government got in store, havinq had five year's notice as to what would happen in Buchans, to alleviate· the kind of problems that we are goinq to face with the shut-down of that particular mine? ~~: The hon . the Premier. 257

July 18,1979 Tape No. 109 ."Ji-2 I?P!l!o!IER !>ECKFORD: Hr. Speaker, I would be less t:han honest and less than frank with this hen. !louse or •o~ith t.!l.e ProVince or with t.":.e peo~;~le of the Province if I said I had all t.'le answers to the unemployment situation in Buc:hans, Bay D' Espoir or Roddickton, Happy Valley - Goose Bay or any other depressed areas of the Province . of whic:h we have many over the last nlllllber of years for a whole bunc:h of different reasons, soma of which we' can taka some responsibility and the others of which are outside off our control.

Suffice it to sa:.y right now that,as I indicated in f11Y previous answer, we are aware of the problem, that we have a 1118npcwer officer on site t::::yinq co identify the skills of all the people as they become unemployed and to try and seek out aqqresaively more or additional or other employment opportunies for these ·people. That is number one. So we are doing all we can on that front 1 albeit it might not seem to .. be as promising as one would like in the sensa that 101e cam1ot take the man as he retires or as he qets laid off in Buc:hans and qive him another job the next day.

That is pretty difficult. to do. It is a very, very complex problem and not an easy one for qove~ts to solve. We have a public responsibili~· and we will try to disc:h~e it as well as we o:an. Secondly ,of course, a.s the hon. member knows and as 1110st people in this hen. Rouse r ecoqni:a, we are working very hard to try to assist >.bi tibi :>rice, or Price Minerals really, a division of the large company, in seeinq whether in fact additional ore reserves can be brought . on stream in a COIIIIIercial way .

This might tie in with the Upper Salmon development if it qoes ahead and it might not, ~y own personal view is that the Buc:hans area is not dead from an employment point of view but there is qoinq to be a· gap in between ~~e phase down of one and the stan up of another. That qap is really 258

.July l.S, l~ i 9 EC - l a dangerous one because '"a do not . .,ant to lose those people from t.'le S~ch.ans area, beca~e t.'ley might be extre:-.ely essential components of any start \.iP of anow'ler ore raserie if and. when we can orinq it onstreUI. Sa there is a lot of future in t:he S~cil.ans area from a lllininq point o! view, t lJelieve, and also as it rela~s to the ;Jpper SaJ.mon development in wnicil. "'e nope t.'l.a people of the auc:hans area can participate in a real way. But it is not an easy answer. There is no easy al\SWer to it. We have a :-t1npower offic::er on site.

We will diligently assist in trying tO find aciditional jobs for these lllinars as they coll18 off. We do have a tiny bit of breathi.nq space as opposed to the forty or .forty-two younq people •o~ho are aQ()ut tO lose their unemployment insurance in tile sense that the miners will be getting SOIIII! revenue over the next number of 1110nt.'ls to keep aody and soul. alive, and hopefully we '"'ill oe able to 1 on a gradual basis, accommociate them within ~ ~our force of the ?::'Ovinc::e. ~. SPEAKER: (Sii!IIIIS) MR.~: The hon. the memaer for La?oile. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to fo119w ll;) on a question that I asked the !?remer the day before yesterday and the han. gentle~~~an was so kind as to provide &De wi til t.'le answer within twenty-four hours. But we were all surprised tO learn t.hat the hen. gentleman has set up anotner committee.

Now t want to ask the hon. gentleman - in connecd.on with C.!l., this is, the C.N. closure of twenty-six railway stations and the eventual phasing out of the t:hree brancn lines that I referred to - could the non. gentleman tell me if his gove~t endorses or subscribes or is co-operad.ng i.n any way, shape or t'orm with the Governllll!nt ot' Canaaa in carrying o~t a reco-ndation of tile Sullivan !'Dyal Commission that a federal/ provincial coll'llllittea oe set up t:o be known as the Newt'o=CJ.and Transportation Commission, if the hon. gentleman's government has made any appointment to t.'l.at collllllission, is endorsing t:'lat particular reCOIIIIIIenda.tion of the Sullivan Colllllli.ssion?

Just what is tile position of the government on that particular :-eco~n~~~endation? :-tR. SPEAKE~. : The hen. the l?remier. 259

.July l6, 1979 'I'ape llO ::c - 2 E'RE.'li:E:R ?EC::<FORD: 'l'iell, Mr. Speaker, I am sor:y and ! apologize if the hon. the member for LaPoile (~r. Neary), first of all, :.tr. Speaker, in response to the preamele to il.is question, is saddened to hear that the Govarnmant of Newfoundland is attempting to grapple wit!'l the railway situation ;,y the es~a.blishmlult of a committee. 'lou know, one committee and another committee and the taillioll.$ of commi ~tees that are ongoing, ! sups~Qse, in Canada or anywhere else can all be condemned out of hand.

By the same token, if we can isolate t:'.ro or three individuals to de some •<~orlt for the govanunent and to report to IE and to the respective ministers, I think it is a step in t.'le right direction. I am very concez:ned, as the non. member is, no doubt, representing an area which has a large railway component, about the future of the :"ailway. And that racOIIUIII!ndation - I have about an hour aqo instructed individuals to conta~ Mr.

Messenger and ask h.im would he be availa.b.l.e tomorrow to me~ with me and the Minister of Transportation and Commun.i.cations (Mr. arett) to discuss the wh.ole situation witn the railway and the liaison between the provincial. governmant and the local. C.N. people so t!·1at we are tota.l.ly plugged into wha~ their fee.l.ings are.

We are, a.S a Cabinet and as a government, developing our own particular provincial. policy as it relates to the railway and we will be taking a firm and c.l.ear s~and on it in due course. aut, you know, I am in favour - whether it is that recommendation - I am in favour of t:.'le concept t:.'lat there must be representation from the Governman~ of Newfoundland on a committee or a group so that we have full information on C.N.'s plans day by day, if you wi.l.l, or week by •<~eelt, as it: relates to the ongoing operation of the railway. ~. NEARY: ~. SP::AKER: (Simms) for i:.a&'oile. MR. NEARX: l1r.

Speaker, a supplemen~. A supplementary, t:lle hon. the member Mr. Speaker, I want to inform t:.'le hon. gentleman that I did not express any sadness at: all about this committee. 'the hon. gentleman must have been reading something in it tha~ was not there. Bu~, what I 2GO ..

,"ruly 13, 1"7~ Tape ~lo. 111 really want to know from the hon. gentleman, has anybody been appointed by ~is government or by his 9redecessor to t.'lis ~tewfoundland Transportation Commission and, if ;;o 1 who is representing the Provinci~ GOvernment on t.'lat commission? ~R. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : ?REMIER PEC!a'ORD: The hon. the Premier. I do not know if there is on that commission, there is a committee - I do not know what it is called~ we are dealing with words again - '"'hid!. ilas met f~m t~ to time in ·.mich Mr. Ed.

O'Brien has been involved, who is the Direc:<:or of! '!':."anspor'!ation in the Department of Transportation and C011111Unications ,on information flow and decisions in which the union and t.'le company and t.':!e govern- ment are involved. -I do not know if t.'lat is the committee or the <;~up that the · hon. member refers to or not ·because there are sevaral different ones a~und 1 consultative committees, they are called I of the •.mion and the company, for example. So I a..m not sure if that is t.'le body that '.:he hen. member is referr.-nq to.

The long and short of it is right now is that I want to establish better lines of communication with OJ as it relates to their operation in Newfoundland and to that end '"'e will be meeting with them to1110r:row1 number one, And number t'oiO i.s that ehe government itself wishes to obtain independent information as it relates to the whole question of railways and the viability, or lack thereof 1 of continuing one in ~tewfoundland and to get some information other than from CN as it relates to that. This co~m~ittee is foreed i n ch.arge of tha responsibility to start a~~~assing e.'lat i:ind of information. ~R. S .

NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. '-''!!.. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPO iJ.e • ~R. s. m:ARY: I am not quite sure i~ I follow what the han. qen tleman said 1 Sir. 'l'he han. qentleman has now con finned that !Us government has a represantatj :•"! <:'!! the Mewfoundland T!:'an5;)ortation.~ Commission which was sat up under one of the major reco~~ncations made by tha Sullivan Royal Commission. Mow •Ahat ! want to ask the hon. gentleman is: is he . ·aware that ~1r. ~ssenger yesterday made a public statement that 261.

July 1.3, 19iO '!'ape 'lo. lll !JN - 2 these ma~~ers of the lay-off and the closing down of these ~ranch lines hac been the subject of discussion with the ~ewfoundland Transpo~ation Commission of ~hich the Provincial Director of Transportation is a member? Is the hon. gent~ aware of that fact? ~. SPEAKER (SD'.MSl : _JRE!o'.IER ?Ecr.FO'RD: The hon. the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, I do not know if it is ca.lled the Newfoundland Trzms;:ortation Collllllission,! am not going to ;et involved in words, and if the hon. member for La.Poile (Mr. ~Teary) •.tants to say that it !las been confirmed that there was a :nember on the ~ewfoundland Trans~rtation he can. I have not confirmed that because I am not sure of the exact wording or the nalllil! of that a.qency. ~..l.l I can tell the hon. gentleman is that Mr. Ed. O'Brien has been in t::ouch with and CCIIIIIIWlic:ating with the authorities in CN on matters ~aling •.rith the railway in Newfoundland.

The specific matters of th:i.s: lay-off and whether somebody in the Government of N'ewfoundland were aware of it before yesterday is something that I will have to check out for the hon. member. MR. s~ ~ARY: :-<.R. SPEAKER: for La!'oile. Mr. Speaker, final supplementary. E"inal supplementary, the ~n. member ~R. s. NEARY: Mr. ~essinger has already made the statement. ·.:oulC:O the hon. gentleman find out if there •.ras a break- down in coiiiiiiiUlications? The non. gentlUiilll is aware that the mac.'1inery is there for this government lie have liaison with the Government of canada and CN provided 262

July 19, 1379 Tape No. 112 NM - l ~1lt. NEARY: in this co~mittee, or commission, whatever the hen. gentleman wants to call it, so would the hen. gentleman find out why there was a breakdown in communications? And I do not understand, perhaps the hon. gentleman can straighten me out, on what this new committee is going to do. The committee is already there, the hon. gentleman has a representative on ~~t committee. What will the new committee do? Will they keep a watch on the Director of Transportation who represents the Province on this ot.~er committee? .:m.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Premier. !?REMIE..~ PEc:n'ORD: l1r. Speaker, the poor people of LaPoile. MR. 'lEARY: The poor people of the Province I woulci say. PREMIER PECXF~ I thought I hacl explainecl to the hon. 11\ember for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) that the ?UZ?Ose of the committee that was established yesterday is to obtain inclependent info:rlll&tion - MR. NE1\RY: You have a man there to do it.

PREMIER PECKFORD: - independent information, separate from. what CN will ?rovicle, as to - not on the operation of CN but upon how -. to get expertise on the railway in Newfoundland to see what position - Right now, I do not know if the hen. gentleman knows or not, h.e .1a.s not or very few people in Newfoundlanci have seen information dealing with the future of railways in Newfoundland or in Canacia anci that kind of expertise, not from CN but from some independent group who know, who have railway expertise, so that we will be in a position to assess what CN is saying and the kincl of future and plans they have.

That is number one. MR. NEARY: down there? PREMIER PECKFORD: What is your Director of Transportation cioing 1he Director of Transportation for the Goverrunent of Newfoundland is on a committee with CN and with the union or whatever the committee is about which is involved in getting information flow on the whole question of CN. MR. NEARY: It is not a union committee. 263

J'~ly 18, 1979 Tape ~o. 112 NM - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Sinuns): The hon. member for Surgeo-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SI."'MO'NS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry); it relates to the Upper Salman or the proposed Upper Salmon project:. I wonder 1 in the fi.J:st instance 1if the minister would indicate to the Bouse whether a decision has been made to proceed with the Upper Salmon project at this point in time? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: made yet:. MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAXER: Burqeo-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: The non. Minister of Mines and Energy. No, Mr.

Speaker, no decision has been ~ supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the non. member for Could the minister indicate whether or not it is still likely the project might proceed this year. The last thing I heard from the ?residant of !!ydro on the subject a month or so ago indicated that the possibility is still there that the project might well beqin this year. Is that still a likelihood? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Mines and gnergy. MR. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, the Newfoundland and Labrador aydro Corporation is proposing that an early start be taken on the Upper Salmon aydro Development but my position is that myself and Cabinet must first be fully briefed on all aspects of that: proposal,including environmental aspects,before any decision will be made to proceed. MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: A supplementarY, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hen. member I wonder would the minister indicate whether or not any decision has been made insofar as the access to the Upper Salmon site is concerned. I underst:and 264

July 18, 197 9 Tape 113 ?K - l ~!r. Si::unons: that in the ~epor~ of the consultants there were three and then latterly four routes suggested,one through Bay O'Espoir, one through Millertown, and ona through the say D'Espoir Highway near Bishop's Falls, and I think another somewhere near Millertown as well, but four altogether. I wonder would the minister indicate whether any decision has been made by government insofar as the road access to the Salmen site is concerned? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, to my knowledge it was not made earlier, but I cannot be absolutely certain on that. I ·.Q.ll check into it. MR. SIMMONS: MR. S?EAKEl!.: MR. SIMMONS: Well, a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. One final supplementary. Could I redirect my question to the hen. the Premier? The illinister has just indicated that there is the possibility such a ·iecision was made before his re-entry into the cabinet. I wonder would the hon. Premier indicate whether a~y decision has been made insofar as the route or the road access to the Opper Salmon site is concerned? MR. SPEAICER: The hen. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: You will have to refer to the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) on that. MR. SL"!MMNS: I know. Perhaps the Premier did not understand or did not follow the sequence - MR. NEARY: ae was reading the newspaper. MR. SIMMONS: Yes. He probably did not follow the sequence of events in the last minute or so. The KL>ister of Mines had indicated that not during his time L~ the Cabinet had a decision been made,but he allowed the possibility that it might have been made before he came back into cabinet .

I am asking the Premier whether a dec~3~on on the road access, ~hether through Millertown or say D'Espoir or wherev~r. whether that decision has been made by government insofar as the Opper Salmon project is concerned? 265

July 18. 1979 Tape 113 E'K - 2 The hen. the Premier. :1R. SPEAKER (MR. SIMMS) : ?RD".IER ?EC".<FORD: ! will note this, Mr. Speaker, and check it out. ! do not know off the top of my head whether there has been a decision-or whether a decision was made during my tenure of office or not. I just do not remember and I will have to check it out for the hon. member to be sure. MR. SIMl'DNS : A supplementary. MR. SP"'..J\li:ER: I believe I said I would allow one more supplementary, the last question. The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Education (Mrs. Verge).

As a prelllllbl.a 1I think I must give thl.s, some of the bus routes in the Province have not been tendered for as long as ten years, and tru.s has come about because in order for a bus driver to get a raise he must tender, otherwise he works on the same rate as he first did when he got the tender ten years ago.

And tru.s has caused school bus fleets to deteriorate and the school bus driver is often in the position whereby he cannot, he is afraid to tender his bus but at the same time he realizes that he cannot buy new equipment or do perhaps necessary repairs because someone frcm outside or someone with a cheaper bus or someone with a better situation may come in and tender, and this has given rise to a sort of deterioration of the buses in the Province.

I wonder if the minister has taken this particular situation into account and whether she plans to look into this particular situation that is presently occurring in the Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Education. MRS • ITERGE: In reply to the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder), I will take ~~is matter into consideration. The matte~ as it stands is the choice of the school bus operators; however,it is something that I will have looked into as it relates to school bus safety. MR. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 266

Ju.ly 18, L 979 ~a;?e 113 !'!< - ) Mll.. SPEAKER (S.DIMSl : A s1,1,ppl-Em1enta.ry 1 the hon. ~r fdQr Pon All Port. !!!· RoPDElt: Mr. spealter I as a supplementaxy t:o that question, t:hera is cU1other situa'Uon wtU.c:h oacus '"ith school. bus ari~s in the P· xovin~ that vary often, aAd in all eases where a ~;.Dntract is entered into 267

.;._.ly lS, 1::73 T3.pe 114 E:C - l : -i..~. !:!OOOE<t: beo::ween a school bo;u:d and ::."'a sc.'lool bus company or the owner of the sc.'lool l:na 1 ·::.ere is r1othinq that is written into most of the contracts or there is nothinq required to be written into :.'lose contracts by ehe !.)rovinc:ia.l government that would submit the sc:hool bus owners to lla.ve their drivers take driver education.

Now I understand in some cases where the schools own the buses direc:Uy, ehay sW:lmit their drivers eo dri var safety proqriU11111Ss, but ... here t:.1.e contracts are there is oothinq to require the school cus drivers to sul:lmi t to this t:raininq. I wonder '"'ould the :ninister COIIIIIII!nt on this and wh.ether she will be looking into this as well.? !om. SPEAKER: (Simms) MRS. VERGE: The hon. the Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, yes , I will look into ::..'lis as well. The whole uea of school bus safety is rlOW under review .by the people in my depar~nt. MR. !iOOOER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: one final supplemantaey, ::..'1e hon. the member for Port au Port. !i!t. !!ODDER: ~1r. Speaker, th.ere is one further point on school. bus safety. The present inspectors of school buses in the ?rovince ;u:e ei th.er ~vernment officials, wh.o presently do not tla.ve specialized training in the inspection of school buses, a.nd as well, I understand ::hat the RCMP must inspect the buses t:.'lree times a year, a.nd, of course, Ron> officers a.ra r1ot mechanics.

As well, th.e school bus drivers are allowed to fill avery seat on school. buses and allow lS per cent of th.e sc.'lool stud,ents to stand on th.ose buses in many circ\llilstances . ! wonder would the :ninistar look inti:! th.is particular fact? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. lllinister. M.~. VERGE:: 'las, Mr. Speaker, r will be lookinq int:e t:.'lat u we~l. I ·mderstanci that tha:re a.ra schoo~ bus inspact:ers a.lt:."louqn J: am not in a position to give the details of th.air training.

The question of standees on school buses is one of t:.~e questions beinq examined as part of t:.'le general ex.alllination of school bus safety. 268

;ul~" lS, 1979 !ape lH :::c - 2 :·!R. SPE:AJ:o;ZR: (Si:mns) The hen. t .. .''le mel!lber for Torngat t1ountains. ~=- Speaker, my question is directed to :he ~t\nister of Fisheries (:-tr. N. Carter) . I understand t."lat t.'le <Jepar:mant of :'isileries has t:.wo !ish plants operating in Makkovik and Nain in ~)racier and for large salmon they are paying H .SO :9er pound. Throughout the I sl.and, I llllcierstand that the price of large sal.mon is somewhere between S2.v0 and S2.JO per .s:ound.

Could t."l.e minister a.dvi.se this !iouse if his dapar:::!lent will be paying the fishermen more t.'l.an Sl,80 par l?C)und for t.'l.e sal~1cn? t1R. s:1~a: The hon. t.'l.e ~inister of Fisheries. ------- ~· CART.ER: Mr. Speaker, I will have to ~e it a.s noUc$ and provi.de an answer at a later date , proba.bly tcmcrrow. MR. sPEAKER: The hon. the member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. )lR... F. rowE: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Ministe::- of Fisheries. I guess the !1ini.ster of Fisheries is ~a:re of reports that th.e S46 llli.llion Arctic Vessel. and Marine Research Institute at MeliiOri.aJ.

Gniversity is under the freeze at the present time. The:re have been a number of reports. I •.render if the minister could confirm or deny t.'lat? The hen. the :U.nistar of Fisheries. MR. W. c:.RTER: The hon. l11el11Der is ta.lldng about a federal. freeze. If it is I would suggest SOME RON. ME.'mERS: Oh, oil! MR. SP~R: Order, please! M..'t. tf. CARTER: - I would suqqest, Mr. Speaker, t.'l.at the hen. 1118mber direct that question to another source, that is , to t:he federal government. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, on! :-m. R. SDIMCNS: Re disowns them already ! :1R.. F • ROWE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. l'l..'l!..

SPE.1\l<ER: A supplementary, the hen, t:he member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. F. !lOWE: Could the minister, Sir, indicate to ~'le aouse ~het:.ar he has had any consultations with his friends in Ottawa regarding whe~~er or not t.'l.ere is a freeze on this ?articular ?reject? 269

XR. SPE:Ala:R: (Simms} M,R. w. CAa'!.ER.: ::c - The l:lon. the ~sur of fi~heries. :1r. Speaker, unlike the J?eriod prior to the new <i&wninq in Ottawa, tile new az:a - AN HOH. ~p: :-11\. w • CU'l'.Elt: !iea.r , near! - we ha,va canstallt consul,tat.ion on p-ret~ well Ul IIIAtters pez:ta.ininq to the fisheries in the l?rovinca. And ! amst say , I h:ava fo~anci the !fre5ent llli.zl.4.ster c:.o be - I h:ave Spent more t,ime, Mr. Spealcer, with the pxoesent minister in the past :lu:ee ana a hal.f weeks anGl. hali 1110re c:on$ul tation, l:.han with tlla previous mi.a.ister for three and a half years.

SOME liON. !mMBEl!S ~ G. F.~~ Mil. SPEAII::ER: aa.y de Ve:r:da on a suppla.a.nt;u:y. Mil.. p • !!OWE: !tear, hear! Mr. Speaker, a suppl&Mil:tuy. 'l'he non. the llllll!ber for 'rti.~Uty - Mr. Speaker, the lllinister stlll has not indi.c:ated whether or not there is "' freeze and ha does not obviously lcnow the answer. 3ut '"hat I would like 1;o know, if that partic:W.ar report is trua , S,l.r, z;;o

.July 18, 1979 Tape ~l o. 115 Nl1 - l M.~. F. ROWE: how does ~e rationalize that with a statement i~ the Throne Speech that, "~y Government will, in garticular, build a strong marine research and development capability to ensure that marine resource developments have a better chance of creating related secondary manufacturing opportunities in the Province." 1-tR. E' • ROWE : t..'lese two situations? ~!R. LOSH: SOME HON. MEMBERS: Mll.. SP""..AKER (Simms) : A good start. eow does the minister reconcile Five years . Five years. Oh, oh! The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. w.

CARTER: Any promises made by us with respect to fishery development will be carried out. That is all I can say. 30ME !iON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the :{inister of Finance, Sir. would the minister indicate whether all the agreements have been signed with Abitibi Price for the ta..lteover of Labrador Linerboard and if the S43.5 million has been deposited in the public treasury? :-1R. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Finance. OR. J. COLLINS: Mr.

Spea..lter, I was not, as the hon. member ;mows, directly involved in the negotiations or t he culmination of those negotiations over the Linerbcard mill. At the present time I am perhaps a little distracted with other matters and I cannot recall now having heard whether or not they are completed. aut I certainly will undertake to get the answer for the hon. member. I will not say tomorrow but I will say at the earliest opportunity. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Would the hen. gentleman also undertake 271

July 18, 1979 Tape ~o. 115 NM - 2 ~- ~"EARY: Sir, to get me the answer as co whether or not the annual audits that were done by ?eat, Marwick and Mitchell, ·~ch the hon. House knows are world wide, if their annual audits indicate that it was impossible for them to audit the accounts of Labrador Linerboard because sufficient information was not made available to them and this is stated in t.'1e annual .report~ that they ?resented?

Could ~~a hon. gentleman find out also if there was any follow up on the statements made in the annual report by Peat, ~~ick that t.'ley could not audit the reports of Labrador Linerboard on the information that was made available to them? Would the hon. gentleman undertake to get me that information too? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): OR. COLI.mS: ~-~= MR. SPEAKER: for Oral Questions. ~- SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. ~- Speaker, yes. A supplementary, Sir. Order, please! Time has expired ORDERS OF THE DAY: This beicg Private Members• Day we will deal with motion number four. The hon. President of t.'le Council.

MR. MARSHALL: Mi. Speaker, if we could just before we get to Orders of the Day. I wonder in order to facilitate t.'le non. Minister of Finance in parting his good news to the people of the Province tomorrow,whethar we could move - I move that we dispense •rith the ordinary daily routine of the public business tomorrow so that the minister can get right into the Budget Speech.

Alld at the same time,since tomorrow would be inappropriate to make the motion, I move that the House when it rises tomorrow stand adjourned until ten o'clock on Friday morning and that the hours from ten to one on Friday morning be substituted for the normal hours of three to six. MR. SPE.'&J<ER: Has it been moved and seconded? 2'72

July 1.6, 1979 Tape No. 115 NM - 3 lli!.. ROBERTS: If it is •.1p to me to second it I will second it but I am sure one of the hen. gentleman's colleagues will do that. Well,chere are two motions, Mr. Speaker, one, I think r~res our acquiesence, that is the question of moving tomorrow. We do accept that. We have no problem with that, and we have no problem with the sitting hours either, that does not require our acquiesence but we do agree to it in any event. ~. SPEAKER (Siliii!IS): SOME !>ON. MEMBERS: MR. liEARY: Then it is agreed. Motion number four. The hon. member for ~ile.

Hear, hear! ~- Speaker, I humbly thank my hon. colleagues, Sir, and this is the first opportunity I have ~Ad to congratulate Your Honour on his appointment to the Chair and the Deputy Speaker. I would like to wish Your Honour well in his onerous and heavy responsibilities in this House and from what we have seen of Your !iOnour so far I have no doubt that Your Honour Ifill carry out these arduous duties in a fair way.

I would also like <:o congratulate the young lady who 4S now a page in the House and I must say that I was rather impressed with the item ~hat appeared in yesterday's newspaper, or this morning I believe it was. MR. LUSH: o!R. liEARY: The Teleqram last night. The Teleg-ram last night, and I was rather surprised to see that the young lad\' would divulge her age. She certainly does not look eighteen, A very attractive addition to the House of Assembly indeed. And I •.rould also, Mr.

Speaker, while I am at it like to congratulate one of the gentlemen who is seated at the Table of the eouse on just being appointed today as Legal Adviser to the City Solicitor. 2?3

July 18, 1979 AN !:!ON. MEMBER: >IR. S. ~lEARY: Tape NO . 116 SD - 1 City solicitor . - city solicitor, appointed city solicitor in the City of St. John's. ! must say that: the hon. gentleman, Sir, is a dog for punishment:. SOME !IDN. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! • MR. S. NEARY: If the hon. gentleman thinks that the decor\1111 oi this House is bad ne nas not seen anything yet. Just ·.,ait until the bon. gentleman gets down at City Hall.

But I am sure after tha hon. gentleman is finished with his on. the job tl:'aining, both in tha ffouse and in City !:!all, that the bon. gentleman will be well equipped to becoma Premier of Newfoundland or Prime Minister oi Canada. MR. E. ROBERTS: or keeper of an insane asylum. MR. S. NEARY: That is right, Sir.

And I would also, Sir, like to congratulate all those who have been elected to this House, both for the first .time on either side of the Rouse and those who have been re-elected. dod I might just say to hon. gentlemen who have been e.Lected the first time t.'la.t the real kev to vour success is not getting elected the first time but it is getting re-elected. And I would like - MR. E. ROBERTS: should remember that. MR. S. NEARY: :1R. SL.'1MONS: hard way. SOME liON. MEMBERS : MR. s. NEARY: The member for Mount Scio (Mr. L. Barry) That is right. 'Barry' found that out: the Hear, hear! I am sure, Mr.

Speaker, that hon. gentlemen are very conscious of that and from what ! have seen so far, Sir, will do a good job for their districts and for the Province 2?4

.r.J..ly 1a1 1979 Tape :;o. 116 ~o - 2 as a whole. Now 1 Ar. Speaker 1 ~'le naw llle~~Ulers ot the !louse probably have zallen into che trap .i.lld ! woulci chi~ t.ha.t the government 111anaqec1 tQ ec this witil a certain degree of succeas of i).lAming eve:ything on the d.ec:orlml of the <:!OWid, of .:~C:cusi,Qq ehe Oppcut:ion of oeing negative and. obstructionists. :<ow this has been the strategy u,d the tac:t.ic:s, Si.r, over t."le past several years, the past su .:lr seven years, ana t:l.at is wo.y, Mr.

Spe~ar, they have been successful in conning the NewfcWlliland ,;leople and. ciiverti,Qq their attention from l:ba lligh cost of living in this >'rovinca, diverti,Qq their attention free ~~e !:Jread and butter issues.

The government have .!:leen succassful to a certain degree and have managed to continue to con tile Newfoundland people into thinking 1 for instaru:e, that w have to change the rules of tile aouse in order to get anyUlinc; done in tilis House •..rhen in actual fact, Sir, hon. members, especially che new 111embers, will reall.zo '!fery quickly that it is the goveri!IIIent that calls the order of business in the iiouse, and the government have not seen fit in the last su Or seven years, to ~ l<nowledqe, to raise the matters that are tearing ti:le hearts out of ou: Newfoundland. people t;cday, name.ly: record unemployment, inflation and. the nigh cost of living. . ~ t>ON.

ME:1BER: :·tR. S. NEARY : riea.r 1 hear • And that is why, Mr. 5p~er, that I ,,o~.,;:. w ?Ut down a Private Mem.bers 1 Resolution. MR. SI!-IMONS: !tight. Ui. 5 • NEdR!' : aecause 1 •1r. Spe~er, "!our i!oncur k::ows that wen the I.ieutena.nt-Gavernor sat in the Cha.ir t:hat Your !ionour now occupies and raa.d. tile Speech frCIII the Throne outlining tile government 1 s policy for the next year or 0.0 , there was no~ a syllable, net a paraqrapil., not a ·<010rd. aboue inflation or t.'le hic;h cost of livinc;, llOt a syllable. Mr.

Spe~r. ·.-~e ware all astound.ed on this sicie of t.he t>ouse no~ to near one word about ~e nic;h cost of living in this Province which is tl:le number one problem in ou: 275

J;~ly lS, 1979 • ·!.R. 5 . l-IC:AAY: ~ HON. ; .~· IBER: • iR.. ;; • NEARY : AN HON. ~-EMBER; .4R. s. NEAll:!: Tape c·o, ll6 Newfoundlaild sac;:ier.y today • ay evert survey. I be<J yow: pacdon • ay every survey. :;;:J - 3 By evezy survey, by eve:ry report, by everythinq that has been d<me ill t11is L>roviDI:e for tne last severaJ. years, tile number one problelll that is always turnaci up as ~q the c:ost of livinq. Anci I douQt, Mr. speaX.t~r, u any lll8lllber of this non. l:!ou.se wl.l.J. disaqree with lila that this is the most uoubles0111e problem in our Newfouncil.a.Dd. society.

The p:r:oli:ll8Dl that is naqqj,nq and tonlentinq ~eoPJ.e in ow: Pr~e toci&y illOI:e tha.l\1 anyQj.nq else, more than any other sinqle ite~~~, , is inflation 4J11i the c:ost of llv:i.Dq. And. I llave put down a reSQlu~. I was b.opizlq, Mr. Speake, t:ba.t it WCNld aot be necessary, nec:essa%Y for lila to go tnrouqb. all el2e riqamarole .am t:Q take up tnt. time ot c:he !louse I::Y:i.Dq to jus~ ~llttinq down this ri!SOllltioll. I thguqilt tne Gcilver;~~~ent House L$odar (il'lt". w. •·!aJ:sballl or tne Premier WCNJ.d r~ iA taeir p~e and say, 276

J'u,l.y 18, 1979 Tape 117 ?K - 1 ::-tr.

Nearv : •vrell, we are going to go along '"'ith this. ;.;e are going ~o show the people of this Province that we intend to come to grips with ~~is problem ~~at ~eople are finding it very difficult to cope with today. so I put down a Resolution, Sir, that a Special Committee of the ffouse of Assembly be appointed immediately to lay down guidelines for the setting up of a Provincial Eair Prices Review council with backup legislation, with the necessary legislation to allow the Council to handle grievances and complaints from consumer groups and individuals who feel ~~t they are the victims of unfair pricing, price gouging, profiteering, unethical procedures and practices in wholesale and the retail trade, false advertising, questionable procedures in stocking shelves at the big supermarket chains, and unfair competition in price fixing in connection with the gasoline, heating fuel, electricity rates and so on.

Now, Mr. Speaker, as I indicated the Throne Speech that was read. in this Hause last week by ·ais !'lonour. did not have a paragraph or a syllable devoted to this problem which was a great disappointment to the people of this Province. Perhaps, Mr.

Speaker, that is an indication that the gove~t have given up trying to cope with the high cost of living and inflation, have given up any hope of every doing anything about this problem other than the attitude ~~t they have displayed in the past six or seven years that they cannot do anything about inflation or the rising cost of living, that this is a worldwide pro.blem created by the Ara.b countries or by Mr. Carter down in the United States, ~d that nothing can be done about it.

Why should poo_r old Newfoundland try to do anything about ~he high cost of food and the high cost of drugs and the high cost of eyeglasses and the high cost of gasoline and the high cost of ·· heating fuel and the high cost of electricity and the high cost of clothing and footware? Why should poor old Newfoundland try to do anything a.bout that when this is all started over in Iran or in Venezuela somewhere or down in the Onited states? So let us throw 277

July 19, 1979 Tape 117 PK - 2 ~!r. Nearv: up our arms in defeat and do nothing about it, Sir. 3ecause it would seem to me, Mr. Speaker, since the Tories took over ~e government in ~~s Province in 1972 1 th1s has been their policy. And in previous Throne Speeches and in Budget speeches the government have cleverly blamed the high cost of living and inflation on factors outside of this Province, and let themselves off the hock for not doing anything about inflation and the high cost of living by persuading Newfoundlanders that this was outside of their control. That is very amusinq, Mr.

Speaker, for the government to try to weasel. out of its responsibilities by accusing the Arabs or the carter Administration in the United States for our inflation and for our high cost of food here in Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, it may be amusing but it is not very funny for consumers in this Province lolilc are being ripped off because of inefficient and inadequate transportation and limited specialized storage - MR. J. ClUa'ER: Is the member readinq this? MR. m:ARY: No I am not. I have a few notes in front of me, Sir.

The hen. gentleman Jc:ncws full. well that I can make a speech, ten a day in this l!ouse without a note. I am allnost as good as the hon. Leader of the Opposition who has a very good memory, who can speak for hours without a nct .e. And I might say for the benefit of new members, Sir, that it is against the rules of this Rouse to read a speech. AN RON. MEMBER: MR.~: front of me . MR. RitiEotn' : MR. NEARY: You seem to be reading. oh, Mr. Speaker, I have a few notes in The hon. member It is so long since I have been in the House now that I need a few notes to guide me along.

I cannot make a speech without the notes. But it is, Sir, against the rules of this House to read a speech. But as hon. members know Your Ronour turns a blind eye to that, so hen . new members need not worry about 278

July .:3. 1979 Tape 117 ?K - 3 reading their first speech in the !!ouse. aut, M:r. Speaker , as I started to say when I said., it illiiY be ~q, a.nd. the h:on • gentlaiiiZUl i...nt:errupted :ne, ~ut it is not ewmy, Sir. It is not funny t.tle way til!! .~onsum.ers in this Prov:imi:e are beinq i:ipped of£ because of vuious factors that fall within. Provi.ncia.l juri~ictiQZI.. There is somethi.Aq, M:r. Sp.alter, that this government can do 279

.;uly 18 ,19 79 Tape Ho. 118 AH-1 :.tR. NEARY: about inflation and the high cost of living. I will spell a few of them out in a few moments, Sir. Hr. Speaker,~ one of ~ reasons why the cost of li vinq is so high in Newfoundland is because of the inefficient and inadequate transportation system that we have. And that is something the Province can do somethinq about. And another reason is because of the inefficient food mark:etinq procedures and policies that are followed in this P:ovince that tall under !;)rovincial. jurisdiction. And, Mr.

Speaker, SCilla unethical wholesalers and retailers and professional people are ripping our people off, are gouginq our people. That falls under - MR. J. CAR'l'Elt: ~- one. Yes, I will name one. I will come to it later. The hon. gentleman should be a little patient. It is raining out today so he is not in the savory patch tociay. This is scmeth.ing else t!'l.at hon. new members will learn, that the hon. gentleman .,ill only attend the Rouse when it is raininq. When it is fine he is up in his savory patch. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Rear, hear!

MR. !IEARr: There are, Sir, p:ocedures and policies ~einq followed by wholesalers and retailers and professional peo'j:lle in this P=evince that are immoral and unethical and I will give an example shortly. MR. J • CAR'l'Elt: OUtside the Rouse. MR. NEARY: I have given it outside the Rouse and I will give it inside the House. And if the hon. gentleman • ..,ants lie to go up to ~.ount Scio Road and give it to him : I will go up there and give it to him too. But, Sir , I .,ish Your Honour would restrain the hon . gentleman because we hear so much about the decorum of this House.

Everythinq is blamed on the decorum and blallled on the Opposition. If Your Honour would restrain the hon . gentleman because this is a very, very seriQUS matter. a very serious topic we are on , Sir , and I would like,if ! may, just carry 260

July l9 ,1979 ~~~..!'!.:.. SOME RO~. ~!'!BERS: ~R. ~li.RY: :ape :-lo. ll8 on in silence. Hear, hear! AH-2 Mr. Speaker, all of ~~e factors that I mentioned fall within provincial jurisdiction. ~lso, Mr. Speaker, there is a unique situation that exists in Newfoundland that exists nowhere else in Canada and that is that we nave in this Province a group, a breed, a gang known as semi­ exclusive or exclusive manufacturers aqents, t.'ley exist nowhere else in canada, and they fall under provincial jurisc:'iction. And yet, !ir.

Speaker, the govern~~~ent,as I indicated, have consistently been tellinq us here in this eouse and tallinq the people of Newfoundland that there is nothinc; they can do about the hiqh cost of livinq or inflation in this Province. They brush the people off by tellinc; them, "Why do ycu ~ot take your problems to the Oepar'CIIent of Consumer Affairs? Tell it to the director of that departMent or tell it to the minister." And t."tat is about all you ever hear about it, Sir. That· is all you ever hear about it.

I might say, Sir, in connection with the policy of this administration, they are not merely sayinq there is nothinq we can do about the hiqh cost of livinq in this Province, Sut I will make you a J?rediction, M.r. Speaker, I will ""'aqer you a bet that when the Budqet is brouqht dOWft tomorrow ,.,e .,.i.ll qet l!IC're of the sallie old line on this problem by the government and ~!tat is 1 it is beyond their control. It is outside of provincial jurisdiction and either pawn the bl- off on the GovBJ:nllltmt of Canada or s0111e foreign country. Mr.

Speaker, it was rather intarestinq to note recently that at the meetin~s held in Japan.where all the countries qathered toqether to decide whether or not they would allow an increase i~ world oil prices or r1ot 1 tney had just abaut taken their seats in Japan when lo and behold one of ~Ita representatives from ~ewfoundland, namely Mr. Crosbie, was the first to j uznp to his feet and say, "Yes , we have to allow world oil prices to increase.• He was one of the first to aqree had 281.

July 19, 1~7a '!'ace ~t o . ll~ J:./ - l ~·R. S • ~l=:F. RY : and t::tf.' n had the face t:o say that the cast should be passed on to t~e consumer. It was also, ~r. Speaker, i~ case hen. gentlemer. do not read the newspapers or do not listen to t.'te ~ews,it was also ironical, Sir, ehat it was the Clarke/~osbie team u;t there in Ottawa that allowed Alberta to i."'lc:ease eheir oil prices , to lift t.'te f:eeze on oil coming into Eastern Canada resulting in a su.t:stantial increase in heating .'·.1111 and gasoline to the Provinces in Eastern Canada that get oil from ..._Ulerta. And that is something, ~1r.

Speaker.- Perhaps some-time when c:.'te hon. Leader of ehe Opposition has the time in this aouse,perhaps the hen. gentleman can straighten me out on SOm!thing tila.t I do not understand. We &re an oil prnducing country. ::anada is an oil producing country ar.d I can ne-r under­ stan<! •,o~hy the oil from Alberta is not brnught into Eastern Canada, brought into the Maritimes and brought into Newfoundland. fli'e allow it to be exported and the Gove%NIIIU1t of Canada collects so much revenue !rom the exporting of this oil and gas and they subsidize oil prices in Eastern Canada.

The subsidy,by the way,is dimiaishina , the suhsidv~is havina tess value ~'tis year than it had last year. AN liON. MEMBER: i·IR. S • NEARY : The ~rias want to get rid of it altogett.~:. And the TOries want to get rid of it altogether. But what I do not understand - I do not want to get into that now, that is too complicated - is why as an oil producing country that we do not get the oil from ..._lberta here in the Atlantic Province~. Is it because we dO not have a pipeline; Is that it? AN HON. MEMBER: E'artly. MR. S. ~TEJI.RY : E'artly. The hon. gentleman says partly.

But anyway, Sir, while all of ~~is is going on that I do· not unaerstan~, Alberta is building up a heritage fund that is ~ow, I believe,in excess ~f S2.5 billion. Their heritage fund, what they have put away for a rainy day 7is almost Che equivalent of what thts Province owes, ~'te provincial debt of this Province which is getting up near $3 billion. 282

July 13, 1"7<1 Tape ~~o ~ !.l9 C\W - 2 ~row, 'tt. Speaker, these are my few preliminary remarks in asking b.on. gentlemen to support this resol·ttion. I hope that b.on. members have been following the pattern that I out­ lined that developed in this Province over the last six or seven years. I C.o not know if it will change under the new Pramier.I t-ope it will. We will have to wait until the Budqet is brought down tomorrow and then we will find out if everything is going to b~ blamed on Ottawa.

Maybe not so much new on .::;ttawa becaue you have a Tory Government up there~ Before, it was easy to blame everything on Ottawa because you had a Liberal Government-But they may give Ottawa ~~e odd little flick now. just for show, .just for window dressing more than anything elsa. But c~rtainl.y we will find out if they are going to blame the high cost of living in this Province, Sir, on what is happening in other countries. For the past seven years this !las been the excuse for not coming to grips in this hon.

House with the number one problem in ITewfoundland today, the high cost of living,especiall.y food, eleo;:tricit'J, gasoline and heating fuel. Mow, ~. Speaker, back in November 197 4, ~~e Federal Prices Review Board presented its report to this government of an intensive survey and investigation .iato food prices in ~ewfound­ land as compared to those in TOronto, Halifax and some areas in Northern Ontario. At that time, ~r.

Speaker, in case hon. gentlemen have not had an opportunity to read the Food Prices Review ReDO~ that I have in front of me that was presented to the governu:ent they are supporting back in ~ovember 1974, the cost of a balanced food basket of food in St. John's was found to be consistently eight to nine times higher than in Toronto. AN HO'I'T • MEMBER: !1R. S. MEARY: 9 per cent higher. That is right! g to 9 per cent hiqher ~~an in Toronto and 5 ~o 9 per cent higher than in Halifax. 283

.July 18, 1979 Tape 120 PK - l :-<.r. Neary: This difference, 11r. Speaker, between cities was not the same for all areas of Newfoundland, because not all food items in liewtauncUand costs the same L, each community, the prices vary in different regions of the Province and different communities. NOw, Mr. Speaker, according to the statistics that I saw in the paper recently, the price differential would be substantially greater today as indicated,as.

I say, by Statistics canada, the latest figures ehat I saw of the ~onthly Consumer Price Index , that shows the living cost is rising more rapidly in St • .John's and in Newfolll11iland than in other provinces of Canada. New, Mr. Speaker, the FOod Prices Review Board back in November l974,made an oberservation that was completely ignored by this government.

The Food Prices Review Board said, "It: is clear that the IDOSt significant sources of the difference between retail food prices in NewfoWldland and the Mainland lie within the P:rcvince and the internal food disttibution system." t.et me repeat that, Sir, what this report said in case hon. gentlemen have any doubts. And, Mr. Speaker, the report is available,I presume,in the t.agislative Library to anybody who wants to lAke the trouble to go down and get it to read it1 or they can borrow mine.

"It is clear", they said, "that the most significant sources of the differences between retailed food prices in Newfoundland and the Mainland lie within the Province and the internal food distti.bution system . " aavinq considered the factors contributing to higher prices in Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, the Food Prices Review aoard made ten recommendations of which, Mr.

Speaker, believe it or not, this government that tells us that there is nothing they can do about inflation and food prices in this Province - would hon. gentlemen care to hazard a guess hew many of the ten recommendations fall under Provincial jurisdiction? one? No, Sir. TWo out of t:en? No. !-Tow remember this government is telling us they cannot do anything about the high cost of living in N"ewfoundland 1 it is the fault of the Arabs and the .Japanese and the Chinese· Bow about three? How about 284

Jul~· 13, 1979 Tape 120 l?K - 2 six? No, Sir. No, Mr. Speaker, Probably eight. ~- Neary: ~- FLIG:aT: !1R. )lEARY: No not eight. Not quite eight. Seven out of ten · recollllllendations in this report fall under Provincial jurisdiction. Now, Mr. Speaker, five years have gone by and there is no evidence yet that: any of the recommendations have been acted upon, except one, sir. I will give the government credit for one, and that was the Food Prices Review Board recommended that we have in this Province a separate Department of ConsUIIIer Affairs. But they couJ.d not even do that right, Mr. Speaker.

They set up a De~ent of Consumer Affairs and the Environment. And if there were ever two tbinqs that are incompatible they are Consumer Affairs and the Environment. SOME aON. MEMBERS: !!ear, hear! MR. NEARY: MR. JAMIESON: They could not even do that right, Sir. ~t high cost to the people. MR. NEARY: That is right. And I would suggest now, Mr . Speaker, to the hon. gentlemen that they might just review that situation. Because I believe, Sir, that the Department of consumer Affairs should be separate, should be a department by itself. Because, Mr.

Spreaker, as lllt!lllbers know, more effort, more time of that department is spent on the environment, which is a 111ajor problem, than is spent on the problems of the consumers in this Province. Sir. A ~ery bad track record indeed, Mr. Speaker, back in 1967, a report commissioned by the Newfoundland Government on economic prospects of Newfoundland and Labrador drew attention to the inefficient food distribution policy in this Province. And here is the report in case hon. gentlemen does not believe that it exist,again available in the Legislative Library. 285

J~ly 18, 1979 ~R. S. m:ARY: on that commission Tape 'IO • 121 DW - l Let ~ see 1 who were some of the people •.rho wrote this report~ We have Mr. Arthur !.undriqa.n. the late Mr. l'l.bert Martin and we had none other than Frank o. Moores, t!"'e fol:lller Premier of this Province, John R. o 'oea. All:lert Perlin, or. H~o.

ROberts, father of the Opposi~on Rouse Leader and a number of other prominent t-tewfoundlanders were on this commission that wrote this report and here is what ~~ey said about the inefficient food distribution policy in this Province. ':hev said that the most siqnificant finding of their study of the economic state .utd prospects of Newfoundland and Labrador, the most siqnificant findinq was the inefficient food distribution policy in Newfoundland and Labrador. The result, !'tt. Speaker, eompletely iqnored by this qove:rnment. ~ow, Mr.

Speaker, the latest report to draw attention- to the hiqh cost of living in this Province is the Sullivan Royal commission Report on transportation in ~ewfoundland and Labrador. Mow while we were all quick to jump on Mr. Sullivan and his colleaques wlto reetJ1!'1111118nded the abandonment of the Mewfoundland railway_- well, only one colleaque in that case - this controversy that developed over the abandonment of the Nrifoundland railway ovoer­ shadowed all thoe other recommendations made in that report. Aad that was indeed unfortunate, Mr.

Spaakoer, because there are some ver] valuable reCOI'IIIIIendations in that report if adopted by this govern!M!nt that cOuld help very qreatly to reduce , if not certainly curll the ever increasing cost of living in this Province. l'.nd we also have 1 !-!%". Speaker, - there is the report of the inquiry on transportation by the way. 1I.N !iON. ~ER: 'l'!t. S • NEARY : Was it ever referred to this House? I ~o not tnink it was ever referred to in this House, I do not t.'link it was ever tabled in this House. Than there was another report that was done, Mr.

Speaker, the Kostaszek Report that I initiated after my legal hattle with the lawyers of this Province about the high cost of legal fees for real estate transactions in this Province. As a result of that six tr.Onths' controversy the government of the day set up another royal col!llllission called t.he 286

July l3, 1979 Tape ~ro. 121 GH-2 o!R. ~AR'!: ~eoort of Commission of Inqui~t. C'.overnment of Newfoundland, on the cost of !lome Construction and ~ousing. So you can see, Mr. Speaker, that there is no shortage of material to hack up what I am saying and there is no excuse for the government not doing anything about the high cost of living and inflation in this Province.

There is no need for the government to throw up its arms in defeat and let the wholesalers and retailers meander on their merry way, doing as they please and allowing unethical and immoral , the ones amongst them who are unethical and immoral and there are soille pretty good wholesalers and retailers in this Province, allowing them to go on their merry way and gouge the consumers in this Province to their hearts' content. And that is why, Sir, I put forward this resolution to sat up a prices review council in this Province. I think it is high time , !<.r.

Speaker, that the consumer and the consumer groups have so~ meaningful protection against price fixing, price gouging and unethical and immoral policies and practices followed by some, and I underline that ~ ot our wholesalers and retailers and manufacturers' agents and representatives here in Newfoundland. If it is too IIIUch bother to the govern­ ment, Sir, to tackle the nigh cost of living in this Province, as it seems to be, then the least they can do, Mr.

Speaker, is to provide the consumer with some real machinery, some real mechanism whereby qroups and individuals,who are the victims of price gouging and other questionable policies being implemented by these wholesalers and retailers, can get a fair hearing on their grievances and complaints. We already have, Sir, a number of agencies set ~· We have the ~lewfoundland Tenancy Board, for instance, 287

July 18, 1979, Tape 122, ?age l -- apb MR. NEARY: that controls rent in this Province, and we have the Social Assistance Appeals Board and we have all kinds of other boards, but in the most important field of consumer protection and consumer affairs we have no board with a representative of the consumers on it. Mr. Speaker, if hon. gentlemen, and the hon. member for St. John's North (Mr. J.

Carter) said, Well, who are they and what are they doing? - well, if the hon. gentleman will recall back last year, the last session of this House,I raised a matter that was very questionable indeed, and I raised it after I had a number of complaints from manufacturers' agents and salesmen and people who were trying to stock the shelves of the bi~ supermarkets in this Province. As a result of that I wrote on December 15, 1978, the hon. Warren Allmand, Minister of Consumer Affairs, in connection with the matter that I raised in this House.

The hon. gentleman says, 'Would the hon. gentleman raise it outside the House?' Well, I am going to table the letter, Sir, because I did not write the letter in the House I wrote it outside the House, down in my office. I said, "Dear Mr. Allmand: I have had oral complaints from a number of manufacturers' representatives, local producers and other middlemen that in their dealings with Dominic~ Stores they are forced to give additional discounts and rebates to Dominion Stores as a condition ~f obtaining their business.

"I write at this time to ask if your department has any means of discovering whether the savings to Dominion Stores through this 288

July 18, 1979, Tape 122, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: squeezing of their suppliers are passed on to the consumers. May I hope for an early reply." Well, I got a reply back a few weeks later and he said; "Dear Mr. Neary: Thank you for your letter of December 15. The granting of discounts to large buyers is not an offence and so forth - he goes on - I am going to table the letter because I do not have time to read it, I have a few other things I want to say, I just want to read the last paragraph.

"We have not conducted any studies to discover to what extent discounts are passed on to the consumer, but you may be interested in the current study that is being undertaken by an Ontario Royal commission dealing with discounts in the food industry. " The commission is looking into discounts, allowances and rebates by procedures to purchasers such as chain stores and among other things is endeavouring to determine the effects on prices paid farmers as well as the cost of food to the consumer. " So you see, Sir, in Ontario they did something about it.

It was raised here in this House and the government just scoffed at it. Up in big Ontario where the per capita personal income is the second highest if not the highest in the whol~ nation, they · did something about .. it because the people could not cope with the high cost of living. In Newfoundland where we have the second lowest personal per capita income in the whole of Canada, our crowd sits back and blames it on the Arabs. MR.. JAMIESON : living. And the highest cost of 289

July 18, 1979, Tape 122, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: And the highest cost of living in the nation. Mr. Speaker, we have heard various and sundry reasons given by members on all sides of the ffouse as to why the people of this Province are disgruntled with governments and disgruntled and disillusioned with politicians and politics generally.

In my opinion, Sir, the real reason for the discontent the people are showing, and the lack of respect, if you want to put it that way, on the part of the people toward governments and politicians and politics, is the fact that the government and the elected representatives of the people have not faced up, have not come to grips with the real problems that are facing the ordinary people in our society today, number one of which is the high cost of living. In the past six or seven years, Mr.

Speaker, this government has been too preoccupied with bailing out their buddies, too preoccupied down on the eighth floor with figuring out haw they are going to rent office space downtown from somebody who created a white elephant office building, figuring out how 2SO

.:01Ly- :.a, 1979 Tape 123 :::c - l they are going to bail out, Mr. Speaker, when you speak in this eouse you have to be in your own seat, Your eonour knows that, and anybody who was in this eouse before should know it. lm. F!.IGH'1': eear, hear! AN HON. MEMBER~ lm. NEARY: (Inaudible) contracts. 'l'!ley nave been too preoccupied, lir. Spei!J(er, wit.'l. trying to line up expensive il.elicop~r contracts fer tne~ i:luddi.es and trying to look attar tl:leir legal i:luddies t:."lrouq!\ Legal .\id and thrcugn goodies passed out by lllinisters and various departlllents of government.

And tne hon. qentleman,who took. a lit-:le swipe at me the other day when he was speakinq, said, 'Oh, he went down to Southam cLimes to qat his IIIDney for th.e leadership, ' well. I •.rant to tell the han. qentleman there was not a cent came out of Southam climes, and if tnere was, Mr ... Speaker, at least it did not come out of the l?ublic: Treasury where the han. gentleman's came from, because tne non. gentleman is one of tne benefactors. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. NEAR¥ : I beq your pardon , Mr.

Speaker , the ilon. gantlamaA was undllr pay from tnis government from the tUe he got defeated- "·ot under salary. He wu given a job to consolidata tne statutes of this Province and. he could work whatever time he wanted. 'rlhen he ~o~as not over acting as 'the little professor' over at McGill he coul.d put in all the t.ime he ~o~anted at SSO or S60 an hour.

And that gentleman has the face to stand in this eo use and say, 'Oh, the ilon. gentleman got tlis manay in Southern climes.' I have a. few other little goodies for the hon. qentleman if he wants to stay on that trend, if he .,.,ants to keep t:.'l.a't up 1 a. few ::ore goodies for him. That is only one. aut that is what tiley have been ;?reoccupiaci with, Sir. 11R.. MARSHALL; (inaudible). :-tR. NEARY: determined - :m. SP~R: (Simms) MR. NEARY: The han. qentleman is determined ehis nouse Mr . Speaker, eha han. gentleman is Orcier, please! - to see that the trueh comes out. 291.

July 18, 1979 rape 123 sc - 2 ~!R. ~EARY: The hon. gentleman is determined to see that the people of this Province get a fair shake and that the business of this House is not done in the interest of the few, that the business of this House W'ill be in t.he interest of tl'le ordinary people of this l?rovince. And W'hen the government does something good .:or the ordinary people, I W'ill praise them and ~ornen they do somet . .'"'ing that I do not like, I '"'ill criticize them for it. And I did not start it, :.tr.

Speaker, it '"'as the hon. the :·linis tar of Mines and Energy (Leo Sarryl W'ho took the little flic.l(., W'ho could net resist t.."'e temptation to take the flick. Mr. Speaker, I could go on and give other examples of extravagance and wasta and the type of t."'.inq thay have been preoccupied W'ith, the two explosions on either side of the Strait of 3elle Isle, the Norma. & Gladys, Mount Scio House, the alluse of M.C.P., the fishery gear replacement programme and so on and the scandals involved W'ith the Lai:lracior r.iner.board mill and the contravention of the Pui:llic Tendering Act. ·I could go on and on, Mr.

Speaker, but I W'ill do t.."'.at at another time and in another place. That is what has been going on in t.."'is House for the last six or seven years. And, :.tr. Speaker, if there was any lack of decorum in the House it .,.,as only because t:."'e gove=ment were stonewalling and refusing to give us truthful answers and to give us information and refusing to discuss and debate the real issues that '"'ere affecting the Newfoundland people, namely, record unemployment and th~ t'l.i.gh cost of living in this Province. Mr.

Speaker, as I say, I could go on for days listing all kinds of items that have preoccupied the government in the past six or seven years t:."'at ·•e are told now is going to sweep everyt.."'ing under the rug ~d we are going to have new policies and new procedures. Nell, Sir, ...,e will just have to W'ait and see. r hope that ~s true, ~r. Speaker. I have grave reservations because there are 30 many of t..'l.e old gang 3ti1l left, !~r. Speaker. aut anyway, we will see '"'h.at happens in ~"'at regard.

As I say, I could go on for days, Sir, listing all kinds of items that preoccupied the 3dminist:a~ion over the last several years, none of '"'hic."', !1r. Speaker, '"ill put bread and butter on the tallles of the people of t:."'is Provir.ce or put shoes on t."le feet of !:he children in this 292

;w. y lS , _g 79 - ape 12 3 ::c - J Province, o:; Cheaper fooci on tl1e t;agles of l;.!le Slecp,le of this I•mvinca. MeA, Mr. S_peaker, t am qiVinq tile House, ·lfi vinq meilben on both si.cies, .a opportuuity to slwV so.- real =onc:e.xu for tile people of thu Pronnce by sattiaq ~ a. fair pric;es reviaw COWlc:il ncit only to help tbe!l deal with tllei.r <;rievances. thd c:ooiliUIIIer qrvups anci the iadinduala 1 .;:a deal witn their ~i.evanc:es ami CC~Dplai.D.~. 4Dd wt1en they go dQwn to the sqp~~Zl~~Utlel: anci they feel . tbey are beinq d.ppe4 off wllen 1:bay buy their llll!lat or buy their bxeaci or l:IU.y thai,r ens~ P1'04\lc:8 293 •

July lB, l9i9 Tape No. 124 NM - l nothing demora~izes people more in this Province, Sir, than to first of all go in and have to pay cut these high prices but then to realize that they have been ril?ped off. Nothing frustrates them :nore, Sir. And here we have the mechanism on making a proposal positive, a positive suggestion. The hen. the Premier tells us, "Be positive." What could be more positive than to recommend tnat the consumers, both as individuals and groups in ':his Province, be given the mechanism whereby they can air their greviances and complaints about price gouging. What coul.d be more basic, Mr.

Spea.ker, than giving the consumers at least the feeling that they have something whereby they can attempt to cope with the cost of living in this Province, and tell us how it should be tack~ed and what action we can take as elected representatives of the people and the government to help them came to grip with this number one problem in [)lewfoundland that is facing the ordinary people today and facing our socieoy, the inflation and the high cost of living. SOME BON. ~ERS: lm. SPEAKER (Simlllsl: MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. 9ARRY: Kear, hear! The hen. member for St. John's No~. A point of order. A point of order.

The hen. minister. A point of personal privilege, Mr . Spea.ker. I understand the hon. member opposite, while I was out of the Chamber raised certain personal matters relating to work that in a private capacity I was retained to cl.o by this government. I would like just to make note of this so that I could have an opportunity to examine Hansard. I believe we have a responsiblity to raise the matter at the earliest possible time and I woul.d like to keep the .natter open, t-tr.

Spea.ker, until I have an opportunity to examine Ransard and see just what sort of - what I oelieve to be an unparliamentary reference the hon. member made. And I would like for him to repeat the matter either outside the House or to me personally 294

Jllly 13' 1979 ~1R. 3ARRY: ~;here. ~. SPEAKER: Tape No. 124 NM - 2 and we would deal with it further Order, please! That is perfectly in order,I guess,to serve notice and I think that is what the hon. member has done. SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: MR. J. CARTER: The hon. member for St. John's North. Hear, hear! Mr.

Speaker, this is the first opportunity I have had to speak in this session except for giving a notice of motion and let me first begin by congratulating you yourself on the high office you have been appointed to and also the Deputy Speaker, our new female paqe in the aouse, and also all the new members who have been elected for the first time, and also say that I am very glad to see some of the old faces back. MR. SIMMONS: SOille. MR. J. CARTER: Some. Only some. I would like to congratulate the new Leader of the Opposition (Hen. D.

Jamieson) who is certainly a breath of fresh air in the Opposition bench and I am sure will bring great harmony anci good will to this House of Assembly. Now the resolution that has been made, Mr. Speaker, I believe is a tribute to your forebearance and a manument to the lack of control that the new Leader of the Opposition is able to exercise over his members.

I would think that if the Opposition ~arty has a caucus, I suppose they have a caucus occasional~y. more like a coven but, I suppose, it is a caucus and presumably matters like this are discussed and for any?ne to make such an outrageous resolution as this shows a complete lack of control and a disintegration of party spirit. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS: Private Members Day. 295

July 18, 1979 Tape No . 124 NM - 3 ~L~. J. CARTER: There is a certain little ditty that comes to mind that perhaps would apply in this case. "There once was a man fro~ LaPoile/. Who would Speakers and ministers roil/ 'Til a man fr=. Bellevue/, Cut his income in two/, So now he's subdued but he's loyal." SOME RON. MEMBERS: )o!R. 3. CARTER: Rear, hear! .~d since I had to read that, 11r. Speaker, I do not mind tabling it. So it is the most inflammatory resolution that is on the Order Paper to date.

It is quite in character with the former opposition Rouse Leader and it is reminiscent of Senator McCarthy in that it throws out - MR. NEARY: You are (inaudible) observing the decorum of the House. :.m. J. CARTER: - in that it throws out smears, innuendoes, and blanket accusations. Now, Mr. Speaker, who is guilty of price gouging? Who is guilty of unfair pricing? Who is guilty of profiteering? Unethical procedures? False advertising? Increases in electricty rates? Who is qu~lty of this? ~m. NEARY: we do not have any of that in this Province? MR. J.

CARTER: If the hon. gentleman wishes to name names, who is price gouging? Does he offer any names? 296

July ld, l9i9 so - l : -L~. ,J. c.'U\~R: Let him name tile names. Oh, no, it is jus1; a blanket accusation. Well, :~. Speaker, I am afraid that unless names are named, unless actual accusations are made, neither thi:o !ioQ&e nor any department of government .:.S able to deal with it MR. SIMMONS: What are your comments on quantity discounts? :'IR • .J . CARTER: ';luantity discount;' aas the hen. gentleman ever read a seed catalcque? You buy lOO pounds of see<is . you certa.ir..!;• get it c:heaper than u you buy a.11 ounce. MR. SIMMONS : Then you uphold what they are doing. You are saying y~u agree with them. MR.

J. ~R: me non. ..=~em.an obviously does not trust the markat, does not ulllierstand the ma.rket. I suppose. MR. R. SIMMONS: I do not trust Dominion. MR. ,J. CARl'ER: So I have to asJt IIIYS•lf, Hr. Speaker, how does the hon. gentleman, frCIIl the fo:r::mer Opposition i:!ousa Leader, how does hi-5 mind work? I suppose he usumes that if you throw enough mud soma of it will stick. lie, obviousJ.y, have been in the grip of inflation, prices are going up and the averaqe housewife finds herself faced f:rom week to week with price increases. rind no one approves or condones or likes t:a sea price increases.

Some of them are the result of External Affairs and some of them a..ra, perhaps, the result of local conditions not only in NswfoWIIOiland but in Canal;ia. aut there is no qgastion about it tnat anyona who suffers as a result of price in=eases gets anqry. And I suppose the hl:ln. gentleman feels that if he panders t:a this ki.nli of anger and suggests t!at really t.b.ere is a _big villain, there is a plot and there is someone or some people benefiting and if ne can be t.ha hero, that he can ride his white horse that he will always be elected. in LaPoile.

The government ~ty can send t;.'le angal Gabriel a.nci he will still get electa<i. SO HE t!ON. :£.:·mEi!S : ttear, near. ; .~ . .J. CARTER: liell, :-~.r. Speaker, tilis peeves tilat these sort of tactics work but God help us if they continue to work. 297

.J~.:.l.y 1.3, .l.9i9 SiJ - :z God helJ? us i.f t..'lis is t.'le kind of :iJerson \olho is going to get electeci, :;he person "'~ would mal<.e a resolution like that. (I~uciiblel -'!R. J. CARTE.R: \iell ,he first ran, I think, for ~:he !lOP and then he ran for tile Liberals and chen he ran IndeJ?eruiant. I wo :xiar where next, the Communist Party? Accordi.ng eo tile sen~il:ients t:.'lat he is expressing I am sure he woulci find a home ehere. But, in fact, :1r. S~Aker, I happen to kllo.., , that the hen. gentleman balor1qs eo no organized J?Olitical J?arty, he is a Liberal. SOME !iON. MEMBERS : liear, hear. HR. J.

CARl'ER: lie would much rather score cheap ilQlitical J?Oints. Now eo be serious, •-~r. SpeaJcar, some of ehe inflation ehat we suffer is caused from abroad. The i.acrease in the price of oil; no question abou'l: it tha~: is goinq eo increase our cost of energy and that goes right through ens whole market. Some of the fault is caused by Canada.

The government, the fo:c~~er Liberal government has consistently spent far more, greatly in access of its income and, of course, the IIICney market is a market like any othu market and it reacts by devaluing itself. our dollar has been locally devalued over the last ean years. So the present Leader of the OpJ?Osition!Mr. o. Jamieson), who was former man number t:wc in the former government, I think has eo eake his share of the b.l.a.me. I ;lnderstand that he was a very close advisor eo iir. TrlJiieau. In other words, .-ir. Trudeau used to lis ten to him.

And. ;?resumely 1 if. he had usea his not inconsiderable economic k:ccwledge he 'liQu.l.d have advised the Prime :1inis1:er not to be resortirlq to such excess:~.ve deficit financir1q. !n fact, Mr. Speaker, onlY twelve short months ago the present Leader of t.\e Opposition was the tlaad of the wbole world in his role as E:xternal Affairs :tinistar. he was the President of Security council of the united Nations 298

JC~l'f ld, Hi9 Tape 126 .EC - l ~- J. c:.RTI:R: which is t:he nearese tiling we nave to a world governing bociy. So tile non. gentleman cannot plead tilat ile did. not hilve enouqh. power or enough prestige or enough influence to pamapa lllilka some battle ilgainst inflation. The non. gent.leJnan a.lso was former Minister of Transportation and t:b.e goods that we receive ilere nave to come across the Gulf by fer:::y. Our qrocaries are not qoing to waJ.k across - even th.e most overripe cheese is not going to walk across t:he Gu.lf!

So we nave been a.skinq for an ::a&t coast fer:::y !:or years and yean and years, and yet tha only thing we qat is a li tt.le bit of SUI!m8r relief. I remember, myself, havinq a disagreeable experience on the Port aux Basques fer:::y, and I wrote th.e then M:inister of Tran.sportaticln and ! IIIWit say, I got back a very courteous , very pro~~t~t reply telling 1111! what a fine service it •.tas and tilat surely I was mistaken.

So ! think the present Leacier of the Opposition has :g take some bl~ - he has· to talte the bl~ twice - ne nas to take some bl.ame tilat ne allowed this resolution to reach tha Orcier Paper and tle also has to talte some l:llame that the conditions descri.l)ed in this resolution do, in fact, exist. So he has to take some bla~~~e on t1o10 counu. ~ow the hon. gentleman ''"no presented this resolution obviously mistrusts the market system. He does not realize that it is competition that keeps pricu down and that the suparm.ar.ltets in town are vyinq with. each other for Specials.

They ~(now that the tlousewife shops around - people do shop around. So I can see that t:he member would ve:::y mucn like to sea such a colllllli ttae formed and. himself, no dou.bt, as tile cnainaan. And he would love nothing better than to sUIIIII10n, I suppose, various people who have displeased him over the years, on the carpet; and lllilke their lives miserable. lie would like to play t:he par-. of the <;rand inquisitor. ~~~~, Mr.

SpeaKer, I '-lnderstand by the pre3ant rules of this E!ouse t:hat I can go on for a total of forty-five Tllinutas, out I intend to cut my speech short because I hope by tnat method that th.is resolution will get that much closer that much faster to t:he trash can. Thank you very much. SOME nON. ~~ERS: !iear, hear: 299

.:uly lS , .!.979 ~- SPEAZI:ER: (Simms) !!lay de V'erd~. SOME HON .• MEMBEBS: ec - 2 'l'h.e hen. t."J.e member for 'l'rini~;y - Mr. Spealutr, I really hesita.ca to ~ply to the coawnts f:om the member represend.nc; St. Joh.n' s North (Mr. J. c.u:ur) in c:ue I miqht 4d4 soma diqnity ':o til-.

Sir, it is quite inc:aciible l;h.at a member of ellis !louse of Assembly since 1972, can stand up. in this !louse and speak aqainst a ll!Otiou c:4lllnq for the setd.J:Iq up af a spac:ial collllllittee of tile Hause of Assembly ~;a be appointed i=Bcii•tel.y to lay dowl1 guiciallnes for the setd.nq up of a i':Ovincial fair pnces review council When just last week, SJ.r, it was azmo1meeci in the prus that st. John's , llewfouncUaad had the dic;ni ty of havinq the h.ic;i18st aast of liviac; ia this nation. Ma. J. ~R: We ue tll.e farthest away fraa& eha c:entres. !m.

F • 1'0WE: The non. 1118111ber is the farthest <~Ma.y , Mr. Speaker, not st. Joh.n's.

July 18, 1979 Tape No. 127 NM - 1 MR. F. R-OWE: It is incredible, Sir, that the member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) can call this an outrageous motion, an inflammatory resolution. I jotted down the remarks made by the hon. member. MR. FLIGHT: ordinary people. .l1R. F. ROWE: It just shows his contempt for the And on top of that, Sir, gets around to accusing my friend from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) of being a communist. MR. NEARY: That is decorum in the House. MR. E'. ROWE: And han. members opposite, Sir, conducted a recent election campaign talking about the need. for improvement in the decorr "j: o:his hon.

House. MR. LOSH: Shocking! Shocking! Shame~ul! MR. F. ROWE: And in the same breath, Sir, that he is going out of control, the hon. member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) and making a complete fool of himself and having every member sitting around and ashamed of him, he accuses the Leader of the Opposition (Hon. D. Jamieson) of not having any control over the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) for moving one of the most ~rtant ~rivata members' resolutions in this House in view of what we heard last week, that St. John's, Newfoundland has the highest cost of living of any other ~art of this Nation of Canada. ~R.

LUSH: MR. F. ROWE: Except for the West Coast. And, Sir, if that is true for St . John's, Newfoundland what must it be for places like the Northern ?eninsula. MR. NEARY: ,!R. F. ROWE: And Labrador. And Labrador and other rural and isolated communities in this Province . MR. J. CAR'1'ER: (Inaudible) . MR. F. ROWE: The hon. member, Si.r, had an opportunity to make a speech a few minutes ago and if he made a complete a-s-s of

July lS, 1979 Tape No. 127 NM - 2 !'IR. F. ROWE : it that is his problem so I would ask him to refr~in from - SOME RON. ME."!BERS : Oh, oh~ Now, Mr. Speaker, the only contribution that the hon. member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) :nade to this debate was obviously a negative one. ae is obviously not going to support it. I hope his colleagues do not speak in the same tune when they speak t.o this particular motion. If they are going to vote against this particular resolution, Mr.

Speaker, I hope they give substantial reasons, certainly more reasons than labelling my friend as a communist. and becoming 1 I suppose,the biggest blame layer in this hen. House, that is the member for st. John's North (Mr. J. carter), the greatest blame layer. Last year hen. colleagues opposite were blaming the federal government for everything, for the high cost of living. !o!R. LUSH: They will get five years out of that again. MR. F. ROWE: A sudden change, Sir, this year now that we have a P<: Administration in Ottawa, now Sir, they are blaming the Arabs. They are blaming the Arabs. MR.

LUSH: The" got seven out of blaming the Provincial Liberals, so they will get another five. MR. F. :!!.OWE: And he went one step further, Sir, he, in his remarks 7 discovered that the hen. the Leader of the Opposition was the External Affairs Minister and was the President of the Security Council of the United Nations and figured out some strange twist of logic to indicate that therefore he must be responsible for the high cost of living not only in Newfoundland and Canada but in the whale world. Now that is the kind of logic, Sir, we have to listen to in this House.

God forgive the people of this Province and I hope we hear a little more sense coming from other hen. members opposite. So, Six, I will not further dignify the hon. member's remarks by referring to them anymore. Now, Sir, I happen to think that this particular resolution is one of the most important resolutions that

Ju.ly l S, S79 Ta pe ,,ro. 1 27 NM - 3 has been brought bef.ore this !iousa ill liqht of the fact that we heard last week, and I :::-epeat again, that the ca.pieal of this E'rnvi.nc:e is suffering from the highest cost of living in ~ nation. And we did r10t need a. news report to remind QS of that, Sir, we Jcnaw that we are suffering from the hiqhest cost of living and that is further compounded by the fact that we are receiving . one of the lowest averaqe salaries per capita of any province in this nation and probably in the W'hole Western world. Therefore, Sir, this particular iDOtion is very important.

Now, my friend from LaPoile (.Mr. Neary) cited a number of reports that have be.en done with res~ tc the cost of li'Vinq in this J?rovince over the years. l4r. Speaker, I would suggest that there is & need for this special committee of tb:e lfQuse of ASsembly to be set U£1 immediately if for no other reason than tc collate the recommeadatiQns contained in these various reports. .Tlle last thing that I want to see are further reports done on the cost ,of Uvinq in this Province, further reports on transportation in this Province, 303

July 18, 19j9 Tape 128 IB-1 :-!R. F. ::l.OtiE: we have quite enough already. What I would like to see is a select committee of this House sit down and lay down guidelines for tile setting up of a provincial fair prices review council but at the Sllllle time collate the recommendations contained in tilese reports. !low, Mr. Speaker, if I could commend to hon. members I would like to refer to the Food Prices Review Board Report t hat was made public · in !'lovem.ber of 1974, some five years ago which, as the member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) has mentioned, contained ten significant recommendations; three for the federal government and seven for the provincial government for the purpose of lowarinq the cost of food alone in tilis Province. Sir, I lllll sorry to say that such recommendations and such reports end up just collecting dust on the shelves of various departments of government, federal and provincial governments.

I •.oguld like to commend to hon. members opposite, the administ:z:ation in particular and the various Cabinet ministers to whom they relate, I would like to read ~ouqh and recommend that they take action on some of these particular recommendations. The last recommendation, the one suggesting that a separate Ministry of consumer Affairs in the provincial government be set up has partially been accepted and acted upon by this administration.

But they did not go the whole way, Sir, they combined it with the Department of ~~e Environment and now we have the Department of Consumer Affairs and the Environment which I would submit, Sir, distracts somewhat from the importance of the consumer affairs element of that particular department. And as a matter of fact, Sir, in my dealings with the Department of ConSillller Affairs and the Environment and as a casual oDservation - I can stand to be corrected on this one - most of the activity in that particular department has been in the area of the environment.

However important that may be, I submit, Sir, we have to step up the sector dealing with consumer affairs. But, Sir, that Food Prices Review Board Report which was made public some four or five years ago, none except that last one that I have mentioned, none of the recommendations have been acted upon. And 304

July 18, 1979 Tape 128 IB-2 !1R. F • RO!<IE : as the report states; it is clear that the most significant sources of the difference between retail food pricas in Newfoundland and ::he Mainland lie within the Province and the internal food distribution 'system.

So the problem is here in this Province itself and it is time now ~~t we stop going for further reports and support this particular motion so that this particular council,along with setting up t he Provin~ial Fair Prices Review Council with back up legislation,can collate the recommendations of these various reports so that we can see some action in this Province for a change instead of the submission of reports. Now, Sir, the first recommendation that they mak& - and I will ask hon. members t~ take these recommendations seriously and act upon tham.

And I can assure them on behalf of my colleagues here, if this administration acts upon these recClllllllf!J1dations they will be cOIIIIIIended by members on this side for doing so. aut what we want is simple action. The board suggested, recommended that the provincial government should encourage the development of a more integrated and more competitive system of food marketing within Newfoundland particularly in the development of an efficient system of wholesale distribution. Now, Sir, this is what my friend from taPoile (Mr.

Neary) was getting at when he was talking about middl8Dien and rip-offs going on in the distribution of the food within this Province. And the hon . member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) can cry all he likes about naming names 305

July lS, i979 Tape l:Z9 ~-1 ~!R. F. ~WE: bu~ the fact of ~~e mat~er, Sir, is t.'lat we are in a sense a victim of our own history in this respect. These micicilema: and some of the - what was the other the member for Lai'oile (Mr. Neazy l :nentioned? - 1 manufacturers 1 aqents 1 1 MR. NEAR:!: ~IR. F. ROWE : They are unique to Newfoundland. IJnique to Newfoundland. They grew up with ow; history. So there is n.ot.'lin.q premedi ta.ted nec:ess.arily about ~s.

Families in this Province nave inherited this situation and have become rid\ as a ::esult of it, and the ordinary people of this Province have had to pay the tune for it. MR. NEARY: A manufacturers' aqent would not be so bad if the person buyin.q tile products could go straiqht to the factory L"l order to be supplied, but in this Province they are exclusive, you have to throuqh them and there is where it is wronq. ~IR. F. ~WE: Precisely, Mr. Speaker.

Now this is one recommendation that t.'le Government has n.ot acted upon in spite of ~~e fact that this recommandation has been sittinq in a report for the past four or five years. Sir, rny friend from Lai'oile mentioned the 1976 Royal Co_ll'llllission on the O:conomic State and ?respects of Newfoundland and Labrador, the authors of which were some distinguished Newfoundlanders. And here is what they recoiiUIIended, Sir:­ " (a) >:he encow:aqement of a voluntary chain group of retailers to improve pur.chasinq and ot.~er marketing functions.

The Soard considers t:hat is '"'ould be prefera1:lle for this development to be sponsored by a st=nq wholesaling unit." Now I ask the hen. members opposite, l1.r. Speaker, what bas the Government done about that pa.rticul.ar recoi!IIIIBndation cominq from the mouths of distinguished Newfoundlanders MR. NEAR:!: :.m. F . :lmiE : former premier of this Province? Includ.inq our former premier. - :-.ot outsiders, and includinq, Sir, the "(

b) The riqorous encouraqement of retail consumer co-opera.ti ve stores. 't'he aoard considers of particular impor-tance 306

-I Lily 13,:.:179 Tape 129 RT-2 the developmen~ of a more efficiene system of wholesale purchasing for t..'lese seores." .'U\d " (

c) A complement:ary ?rcqra~~~~~~& of training for managers as specialists in food marketing." Now, Sir, this pa.rcicular iloyal Collllllission on the Economic State arid Prospects of Newfoundland and t.a.bradcr said t.":.at the Board stresses, or at least the Food Prices Review aoard stresses tilat these recommendations are in need of ill'llllediate ilnplementation. This was s;aid four or five years ago. !.mmediate implementation. So I would ask the hen.

Minister of Consumer ~fairs and the Environment in her capacity as t:."le watchdog over consumer affairs in this Province, to talte these three teCCIIIIIIetldations =dar vary serious consideration. 'they did no~ come from any great crowd of outside experts hauled in= the Province: they came f::om a number of distinguished Newfoundlanders who certainly know this Province inside out. I would COIIDIII!Iui !:hat t.'l~ Minister t:ake them under very serious consideration with a strong view to implementing them,as the Food Prices Review Board suqges"ted, i111111ediately, and bring in such leqi$lation that would do so.

Sir, the third recoii!IN!ndation that the Food Prices Review Board made, that required Provincial Government act:ion, was that the !'rovincial Government should improve the facilities for t.'le distribution, handling and stcra9'e of food throughout the !'rovinc:e, and they suqqested two ways in which this could be dcne: "(

l) The upgrading of roads on a systematic basis to meet the needs of distribution of all communities. • Now, Sir, anybody in this House who· represents rural CODII:IUni ties must realize that t.'te high. cos~ of food, for exaiiiPle. in Ellue Cove, East Cove West, Plwa Point, communities on the northwest coast, Three ilock Cove, and then we can go down the sout.'l. coast, you can c;a in parts of ::he tlortheast coast, and cer~ainly in Labrador - would reali~e that the \JPqradinq of roads on a systematic basis for the transportation of fooci is of t.'le greatest necessity. To give a eypical example, Sir, I . .,as driving through St. Barbe ~rt.'l one March day, on a sunny day, as a matter 307

.;uly 16, 1979 Tape 129 :1.1'- 3 l1R. E'. !lOWE: of fact, and anybody wno is familiar wi::.h ::.he ~brthwest coast knows wb.at ::.hat road is liKe once you get north of Port awe Ol.oix, say. 308

July 13, 197~ Taoe '!o. lJO SH-1 :-!R. E' . ~1-lE: I came across a transport truck that had just simply been blown off the road, blown off the road, and in this particular case it was carryinq veqetables in the middle of /-!arch wit!l. about sub-zero temperature•· The truck -s left there overniaht and all the veqetables were frozen, so that particular trucker - somebOdy had eo lose - the trucker lost. The distributor lost.

Somebody lost but I •,;auld suc;qest to this House that as a result of that one accident alone , and .\.Cf course, there are many more besides that, that the people who really lost were the people on the ~ortllern Peninsula who had to buy that food when the second truckload came along afterwards. And it is just simple little examples like that that woUld siqnificantly lower the cost of food in this particUlar Province.

So to repeat this third reC01111118r.dation f:rom the Food Prices Review Board was "that the government shOuld improve facilities for distribution and handling and storage of food throughout the Province (

a) th:rouqh the upqrading of roads on a systematic basi.s to meet the needs of distribution to all co11111.1nities, and (

b) an improved regional system of storaqe including,particUl.arly,storage •,;ith controlled temperat".!re for perishable food•. ~low, Sir, I do not know what the government has done since they have taken over in the year 1972 in this re~pect, but I can remember that one of the things that the people used to laugh at on the ~orthern Peninsula at Plum Point was this food storage unit. And the reason people naively laughed at this food storage unit, which has since been converted into something else I understand, was why are they putting a food storage unit on the ~ort:hern Peninsula where there is no farminq .

They were not lookinq at the fact that during t.'la SU!nllll!lr months ot year or the fall of the year when it is obviously less hazardous to transport vegetables and such other foodstuffs to the ~orthern Peninsula, that storing it in such a unit would siqnificantly cut down on the cost of the food when the consumer finally purchases it . ~ow to my knowledge, Sir , there has not t.een a significant 309

Tape 'TO. 130 '!R. F. ROWE: thr~st forward on :he part of the government to set up these controlled temperature units for perishable foods. If I ~ w~ng, I will be only too glad to hear citations of where such units have been established. Another recon111endation, Sir, from this review board, Food Prices Review Board, which the p~vincial government can take some action on, is that the provincial government should reasses the potentials of local food p~duction and processing and encourage the expansion of agricultural p=ductiol'l.

And, Sir, ! have travelled this Province quite extensively and we are not the farm-belt of North Alllllrica. There is no doul:lt about that, but anybody who has travelled this E'~vince has seen one of our greatest traditions gradually disappear f~m the face of this P~vince and that is a sitnation where you have, particularly in fishing connunities, the fishermen fishing in the 5Ulllller combined with farming in the Summer, harvesting in the :"Ill , doing their nets in the \'iinter and this kind of a thinq.

But this government, Sir, can exert some great leadership in urging Newfoundlanders, either on a family basis or a ccllllllWlity basis , to encourage them tc expand and produce and process as much local food as they possibly can, whether it is vegetable food or food from the sea or cattle. I do not think we have gone far enouqtl in encouraging this. we are not qoing to be great eX!)Orters of veqetables or cattle, red meat, f~m this P~vinca. we can be great 3i0

.July 1.3, 1979 Tape t~o. 131 ~M - 1 :-!R. :'. ROWE: exporters of fish products, but we are not going to be great exporters of vegetables, nor are we going to be great exporters of red meat. However, I submit, :-tr: Speaker, that if this reco111111Slldation were taJcen seriously by the government that we could be self-sufficient in the supply of our vegetables and of red meal: in this E'rovince. That is the fourth recommendation from the board, Sir.

Another recommendation, Sir, In view of the difficulties reported by consumers in buying fresh fish the board recommends that the E'rovincial Goveznment give consideration to the establishment of retail fish markets in st. John's and other centres. Now, Sir, one of the saddest things that I find in the very little travelling I do throughout the Nation, or North America, is the extent to which other coastal provinces or states exploit the products of the sea, particularly for tourist reasons. And you come back to this Province of ours and you find it very difficult to find good retail outlets for fresh fish.

You find it very difficult to find many restaurants in which you can get a superb fish meal. Quite honestly, Sir, I prefer to cook it up myself at home. MR. STAGG: :.m.. F • ROWE: Do you eat fish meal? Well if the han. member wants a straightfoward answer to that practically the only meat that I eat is fish food. I am keeping off the - MR. FLIGHT• meal. MR. E'. ROWE: MR. LUSH: MR. F. ROWE: He is being smart, he said fish Fish meal? He is being funny. Oh,he is being his usual hysterical 'self like he was yesterday, Mr . Speaker. MR. FLIGHT: Very funny and very - 311,

July 18, 1979 :1R. r. ROWE: for his speeches, Sir. MR. FLIGHT: Stephenville he will - :1R. F. ROWE: what is it Port au Port is it? A.."' HON. :-!E.'fi!ER: MR. F. ROWE: Tape No. lJl ~M - 2 I thought he saved such hysterics When tha~ speech is circulated in Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for - Stephenville. Stephenville - wishes to indulge in eating of fish ~al he is quite welcome to. The utterances that threw across the House yesterday would indicate that he has been exclusively on fish meal for the last twelve months. M.r. Speaker, I was saying that - and I commend the Minister of Fisheries (M.r. W'.

Carter), I commend the Minister of Fisheries for his interest and drive in trying to promote the consump~on of fish in this particular Province. I ·~uld suggest, however, Sir, that if thece were more pictures of fish plates in the newspapers rather the Minister of Fisheries tnat we might have a ~a.ter success in the selling of fish products witnin our own Province.

But I think the minister sincerely, Sir, is trying his best to push the consumption of fish food within this Province but I think a whole lot greater effort is required to make us,in a sense, not only the fishing capital of the world but the fish exporting capital of the world. And I would conmend again to the Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of consumer Affairs that ~icular recollll!llmdation. Now, Sir, these are a number of recommenda~on. I know it is old news, partic~larly for those who have deep concern over Consumer Affairs in this Province and they have probably read this a thousand times.

I know it is old news, it may be boring news. ;!R. STAGG: Yes, it is boring. 312

July 19, 1979 Tape l'<o. l3l NM - 3 ~!R. i!'. ;!.OWE: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) says that this is boring. t-!R. STAGG: ~s presented by the hen. member it is borinq. MR. F. ROWE: As presented by the hon. member is boring. Well I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that if the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr.

Stagg) would just shut his ears and read these recommendations, if he finds me boring, and does all he can to move the adulinistration to adopt some of these recommendations he will be making some contribution to this Province• I cannot really say that I have seen the hen. member make any contribution up to this point. But we got on the one hand the member for St. Jobn's North (Mr. J. Carter) calling this motion inflammatory and outrageous and we got the hen. member for Stephenville (Mr. F.

Stagg) calling the recommendations of the Food Prices Review BOard, written up by a distinguished Canadian, ma.Jcing tilree recc!IDIIendation from another report, the authors of o·hich were distinguished Newfoundlanders, i.f he finds this boring, Sir, I am saddened by the fact that the hon. member even got elected to this House of Assembly. AJ.'l' HON. MEMBER: MR. STAGG: MR. SPEAKER: MR. F. ROWE: He finds you boring. I find you boring. Order, :?lease! And these are the gentlemen, Mr. Speaker, who are shouting and ranting and roaring about the decorum 313

July 18, 1979 '!'ape 132 IB-1 ~!R. F. ROWE: in this House. I sincerely hope, Sir, that the hon. the press if they are bored by me are listening intently to the utterallC'es that are coming from some hon. members ·opposite because I am sure that there are some of the newer members who are not at aLl impressed by the flicks, the cheap, political flicks that are coming across from some hon. members opposite - :-!R. FLIGIT: The Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey). MR.

F • ROWE: - ~en they are the ones who have been talking and ranting and roaring and screaming and yelling about the Opposition being responsible for the poor decorum of this House of Assembly. Now, Sir, that basically is the. basis of the remarks that I want to make in support of this particular motion.

I simply wanted - by the way1 I might add for the benefit of the Minister of Consumer Affairs and the Enviromnent (Mrs .Newhook) that there are three other very good recommendations there pertaining to transportation of goods across the Gulf and another recommendation dealing with a subsidy on evaporated milk and another one having to do with the fact that the federal government should give active consideration to a reevaluation of the disincentives to the production and local sale of fish resulting from the unemployment benefits programme.

These are three recommendations that are made that really pertain and are for action on the part of the federal government. And if this great spirit of co-operation does exist between the present administration and the present P.C. administration at Otta~ I have no doubt that these three particular recoi!IIISndations will be acted upon pretty soon. But, Sir, the essence of my remarks in support of ~;is resolution was to bring before the House of Assembly once again,the fact that these, with the exception of one, nine recommendation&• £rom the Food Prices Review Board Report have not been acted upon.

So, six still have to be acted upon by the provincial government and three still have to be acted upon by the federal government. And I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that if these recommendations were adopted and acted upon 31.4

July lS, 1979 Tape 132 IS-2 HR. F. ROI'IE: immediately by both levels of governmentJthat we would see a s~gnificant decrease in the cost of at least food in this Province. Now there are other cost factors such as fuel and oil and energy that other hon. members have dealt with but I commend these two particularly to the Minister of Consumer Affairs and the Environment (Mrs.

Newhook) • And with that, Sir, I would hope that anybody opposite who wishes to speak against this particular resolution,would at least have the dignity and the foresight to try to cite some particular reasons why this particular resolution should not be adopted, give some reasons. we did not hear any such reasoning from the member for st. John ' s North (Mr. J. Carter l 1 '"e heard a vicious personal attack on the member for taPoile (Mr. Neary) . we heard, Sir, the greatest degree of partisanship that I have heard in this particular !louse '"hich was not unexpected coming from the hon. member for St.

John's North. We had interventions from the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) who finds all of these recommendations very boring. I hope, Sir, that he has the intestional fortitude to go out to Stephenville next week and read out all these recommendations and say, I find these very boring. I would like to see the hon. member undertake to do that. Sir, I give this motion my wholehearted support and I hope that the members of this han. Rouse will see fit to vote for it. Thank you very much. SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: Rear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): The han. Minister of Social Services. SOME !!ON.

ME.MBF.RS: !!ear, hear ! MR. !!ICKEY: Mr. Speaker •. I should first of all say that it is with some surprise that I get an applause from the other side but I welcome it; It snows that 315

July lS, 1"79 Tape ~o. l.33 GH-1 :·!R. HICKEY: we are off to a good start. I was encouraged the first few days and discouraged today, but now I am encouraged again. Your Honour, first of all I should. deal with some formalities, this being my first chance to get on my feet, and first of all I would like to offer my sincere congratulations to Your Honour on your appointment as Deputy Speaker, to His Honour t."'la Speaker, the member fer Grand Falls (~1%'. L. Sill'mS), and to all members of