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October 22, 2009

39th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2009-Oct-22 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 22 October 2009 Jeudi 22 octobre 2009

ORDERS OF THE DAY

INTERPROVINCIAL POLICING

ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009

SUR LES SERVICES POLICIERS

INTERPROVINCIAUX

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

USE OF QUESTION PERIOD

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

TAXATION

TAXATION

HEALTH CARE

HEALTH CARE

FLU IMMUNIZATION

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

SENIOR CITIZENS

TAXATION

CURRICULUM

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

TIRE DISPOSAL

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

TOURISM

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NATIONAL FOSTER FAMILY WEEK

SCOTTY RAMAGE

ENDANGERED SPECIES

CHILD CARE

HANOVER VENEER

DISASTER RELIEF

SCHOOL BREAKFAST PROGRAM

SMALL BUSINESS

ISLAMIC HISTORY MONTH

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GENERAL GOVERNMENT

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

1105481 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2009

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

AND FISCAL REVIEW /

PERSPECTIVES ÉCONOMIQUES

ET REVUE FINANCIÈRE

PETITIONS

TAXATION

TOM LONGBOAT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

IDENTITY THEFT

SALE OF DOMESTIC

WINES AND BEERS

CEMETERIES

SCHOOL TRANSPORTATION

DIABETES TREATMENT

CEMETERIES

RAIL LINE CONSTRUCTION

CEMETERIES

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

ONTARIO POET LAUREATE

BLACK HISTORY MONTH ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 SUR LE MOIS

DE L'HISTOIRE DES NOIRS

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

ONTARIO POET LAUREATE

BLACK HISTORY MONTH ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 SUR LE MOIS

DE L'HISTOIRE DES NOIRS

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord's Prayer, followed by the non-denominational prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

INTERPROVINCIAL POLICING

ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009

SUR LES SERVICES POLICIERS

INTERPROVINCIAUX

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 8, 2009, on the motion for second reading of Bill 203,

An Act to allow for better cross-border policing co-operation with other Canadian provinces and territories and to make consequential amendments to the Police Services Act / Projet de loi 203, Loi visant à permettre une meilleure coopération avec les autres provinces et les territoires du Canada en ce qui concerne les services policiers transfrontaliers et à apporter des modifications corrélatives à la

Loi sur les services policiers.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Prue: I want to preface the remarks I'm going to make to the House by stating that I will be supporting the bill. We hope that it is sent to committee. We have some thoughts and potential amendments that will strengthen the bill.

Having said that, though, I do want to make the following comments: We support this bill, as I said, but we support it understanding that it's not going to solve all the problems of policing. There are already four jurisdictions in Canada that have come along and done a similar bill–those being Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. We are joining a growing family. This is not a precedent-setting bill. Ontario is not the first to do this but, in fact, if it passes and if it goes through committee and becomes law, we may be the fifth province.

There are some difficulties with this, because only five provinces are on board, Ontario being the largest and most populous province. It would, I think, behoove us to encourage the other provinces. That's the first thing I want to say. We need to encourage the other provinces to do the same, especially Quebec, because the problem of interprovincial policing, the problem of criminality between Canada's two most populous provinces—being Ontario and Quebec—is something that needs to be explored, and we need to have a reciprocal agreement with Quebec.

It's all well and good to have a reciprocal agreement with Manitoba, which is also a sister and bordering province, but the others are separated from us. It's difficult to envisage, other than if the criminality takes place by air, the transfer of goods, the transfer of services, the transfer of illegal contraband—all of those things generally will take place, and we know that, either by automobile, by truck, by bus, potentially by waterway, and we need to work with our neighbouring jurisdictions especially. So it's important that Quebec be brought on board.

It's important, if we are truly to be a Canadian family, that all 10 provinces and three territories be brought on board as well. As I said, Manitoba has done this, and that whole

section of northwestern Ontario is likely going to be that portion of the province where the reciprocal agreement at this point will do the most good.

We also share a border, although it's a very small one, with Nunavut—one of the islands in James Bay—in proximity to the northern cities of Attawapiskat and Peawanuck. I'm trying to think of them all here; anyway, those two at least. There is some potential there, although I must state, given the number of people who live in those locations, it will be of course minimal.

There is also the second problem which is not addressed by this bill—and I don't blame the bill because there's nothing that the bill can encourage. I think we need to talk to the federal government, because the real need, in my view, of having a kind of interjurisdictional boundary, even if it's only within a few kilometres of the border, is with the United States.

We know—and the federal government knows as well—that many of the problems plaguing our law enforcement officials, plaguing the polity of Ontario, come from the United States, whether that be the smuggling of illegal contraband, whether it be the smuggling of guns and weapons, whether it be the drugs which often cross the borders both ways. That is, to my mind, every bit as important and probably more important than what we are trying to do with the other provinces.

We need to have a kind of agreement and a beefed-up border where the security and the people can go back and forth. The criminals certainly know no boundaries. It is a worldwide phenomenon; you can get literally almost anywhere in the world from here in Toronto in one day, almost literally anywhere—by plane, by high-speed transit, transportation. You can get there, and the criminals can get there too. In order to stop the flow of illegal contraband and drugs and guns and human smuggling—I don't want to forget that one—then we need to make sure that the borders as well have a kind of rapprochement.

I'm suggesting that if we pass this bill, this will give additional ammunition for the Premier, as the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, to go to his counterparts in Canada at a Premiers' conference and talk about expanding this. We need to do everything we can to protect our society from those evils which often come from other jurisdictions.

Now, we share the longest undefended border in the world with the United States, and of course the smuggling of our other neighbour, I guess, the former Soviet Union, now Russia—I imagine not much transpires over the North Pole. And I haven't really heard of all that many difficulties coming out of our other neighbour, which is France, from St-Pierre and Miquelon. I think we need to take a really hard look at the American-Canadian border and what takes place here. It is that international concern that I wanted to bring forward.

So, in a nutshell, I'm supporting the bill.

I am saying, in supporting the bill, two things have to happen: We have to get the other five provinces and the other three territories on board, so that it is all one seamless ability for police officers to come into other jurisdictions and do the necessary studies, do the necessary enforcement, work in co-operation with Ontario police officials; and the second one is to send that same message to the federal government, that the border, which I believe should remain undefended and free, does require a beefed-up police presence so that a criminal—a person who is intent on harming the people of Ontario through whatever their criminal activity is—cannot simply come from the United States or flee back to the United States without us being able to do what is necessary in conjunction with American officials.

With those two provisos, which I think will give this bill the ammunition to go forward, I would support the bill and send it to committee. I'm sure that my colleague Mr. Kormos, the member from Welland, will have much more to say when he returns. With that, I'll conclude my remarks.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Dave Levac: I was indeed buoyed by the comments of the member from Beaches—East York, so what I'm going to do is try to address the issues he brought up.

During the debate, and having carriage of the bill, I made it clear that yes, indeed, we will be going to committee; yes, indeed, we will continue to hear from stakeholders; and yes, indeed, we will be working with Quebec. Quebec is already in the process of their piece of legislation, which we'll probably see, if not before the end of the year, then at the beginning of next year. That was a result of an agreement that was signed during the Quebec-Ontario cabinet meetings that took place, with some of the issues that came to light.

The member was also correct in the approach he took, in that he characterized it as a piece of the puzzle. I've been saying from the very beginning that it's not the be-all and end-all. Some people may stand up and say, "It doesn't do this and this and this," instead of saying, "Yes, this is a piece of the puzzle," and it's an important piece of the puzzle, because this is being asked for by our stakeholders, who need to go in there day in and day out, and we want to support them. But indeed it is valid to bring up the other questions you ask.

Yes, there are conversations going on with the federal government to ensure that they're having the same kinds of discussions we are talking about between provinces. We want that to happen state to state.

I thought the other piece you mentioned, in terms of Nunavut, was an interesting challenge. What my research indicated to me is that inside of this legislation does not remove or legislate the RCMP, which has jurisdiction across the country. The RCMP can act here, can act in Quebec and can act in Nunavut, and Nunavut reciprocates here in terms of the RCMP officers. They're already signalled to do that.

The three areas this bill does capture, which it does and doesn't do—that is, the three areas we need to hear about—are fresh pursuit: It does not impinge on fresh pursuit. If there's a Criminal Code violation happening, the fresh pursuit legislation across borders is still in effect. The other things this affects and helps, which are part of the puzzle you spoke of, are large events, like the Olympics, and criminal investigations, which is the ongoing going after the bad guy.

This doesn't necessarily make it the be-all and end-all, but it helps with the seamless part we're trying to create to give us the advantage over the bad guys. That's the important part that I think we've covered. The member was right to ask whether or not these things would be in place to help us do that. I appreciate the member's support, and I suggest to him very respectfully that we have samples and examples that I'd definitely share with him, as I said I would share them with other members of the House.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments? Seeing none, the honourable member for Beaches—East York has up to two minute for his response.

Mr. Michael Prue: Thank you to the member from Brant for his discussion. Maybe I should have talked a little bit about the RCMP; you did raise this issue, and I think it's an important one. The RCMP does have jurisdiction across all of Canada, save and except that the two places where their powers are lessened are Ontario and Quebec, because we have the Ontario Provincial Police and they have the Quebec provincial police. The other provinces have agreed to utilize the services of the RCMP and continue to, as do the territories.

I think that's perhaps the difficulty in the perspective I was coming from, and I do acknowledge that the RCMP can go from one jurisdiction to another. But Canada's two most populous provinces, Ontario and Quebec, have their own provincial police forces, and there is, and has traditionally been, some little bit of tension inviting the RCMP. In Ontario and Quebec, the RCMP is largely relegated to federal issues. So you will see them around issues of drugs, and you will see them around issues of immigration and human smuggling, but you won't see them in a lot of things like corporate fraud and other transborder and transnational issues.

I thank the member for what he said—he is correct—and for the comments he made. He is right: It is but one piece of the puzzle, and Ontario needs to be part of that puzzle. We need to be that key piece that's put into place so that others can join and the puzzle can be completed.

Having said that, I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank the member from Brant for his comments.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate? The honourable member from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. You look surprised. Did you think your day was over? Sorry.

Anyway, it's a pleasure to speak to Bill 203 this morning. I must say that, in a substantive way, we support this legislation, but I see this so many times in the way that we bring bills to the House, and I sometimes wonder why we do it this way. A bill is given unanimous consent on first reading, you get no input from stakeholders—you have to debate the bill without any input from stakeholders—then, if it passes second reading, you take it to committee, and then, and only then, do you actually hear in a substantive way from the people who are most affected by the bill.

So I sometimes think we've got it in reverse in this chamber—maybe not so much on this bill, because the stakeholders are either cops or criminals, and quite frankly, we'll favour the cops every time.

But we are certainly starting to get dribbles of some concerns being raised with respect to some of the details of the legislation, which we haven't heard much about because, of course, those things are sometimes not covered in a very detailed way in the bill. But the premise that is being sought—or the result that is being generally sought by this bill—is something we obviously support: allowing police more freedom to pursue criminals in another jurisdiction, crossing the border in the act of their duties.

One thing that we do need some answers on is, who's going to be paying the bill? Is it going to be the police force where the crime was originally witnessed or whatever—reported? Once they pursue them into another jurisdiction, whose property do they become? Do they become the property of the jurisdiction that has apprehended them or the property of the jurisdiction where the crime was committed? We don't want to have turf wars going on in those situations as well. One of the questions will be, of course, who's going to be paying the bill? Because police costs are not free, as we know.

So there are a number of things that we want to deal with when we get to committee—and also have a better chance of having these discussions with the various police services that are going to be affected by this and get their input as well.

I know my friend from Beaches—East York, as well as the member from Brant, talked about this. We do hear that there are some issues with the RCMP with respect to the Manitoba border, because they don't have a provincial police force in Manitoba; the RCMP is the one that looks after the policing for that jurisdiction. So there are some issues there as well that I think need to be addressed.

We're hoping that when we get to committee and have a chance to meet with stakeholders, we can have some of these things clarified. Other than that, I think we most certainly will be supporting this bill and hoping that we can make it better when it does get to committee.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: A brief comment: I want to let you know that the member is correct that there has been very little response from individuals or organizations to this point, but I can tell you that I met recently with the Ontario Association of Police Services Boards, and they are one group that is looking forward to committee hearings. They do have some concerns around who pays for what. Some clarification is required and maybe even some amendments to the bill. So I'm actually glad he brought that up this morning, because the fact is that they're looking forward to the hearings as soon as possible.

Now, I haven't had any idea when those hearings might be. I don't think we've had any kind of subcommittee meeting to determine any dates etc. I look forward to attending those meetings and getting on with this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Dave Levac: Again, to the members for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke and Simcoe North: Thank you for the support. I think that everyone in this House from all the parties has indicated they are going to be supportive of the bill, with some questions needing to be answered.

And yes, to reinforce again, there will be some hearings and committee work done on this, and for the stakeholders plus anyone else—which is the tradition of this place, that we've reinforced—this will be open to concerns and issues and appropriate amendments. My intention is to always guide this with care to ensure that amendments offered are going to strengthen and improve the bill.

To give you just a short example, in response to one of the NDP members—and I can't remember who it was—I did make an undertaking to find this answer. He wanted to know specific examples. I was in touch with Chief Armand La Barge from York regional, and he said that in the past, York officers have found themselves working outside of Ontario and noted as an example a recent investigation of the theft of a Garda Armoured Car Services vehicle in Richmond Hill.

The scope of the investigation eventually widened to Quebec and led to York officers working with the Sûreté du Quebec, which means that this type of legislation would have fast tracked that capacity for the police services to do exactly what this bill is intended to do—and that is to offer that cross border, and Quebec is that piece.

Let's not get too wrapped up on the RCMP issue. The RCMP issue is germane to whether or not there is a jurisdictional, territorial kind of bragging rights piece here. The bad guys are the focus, and I'm glad everyone has stayed focused on that point. This is about legislation to ensure the good guys work together to get the bad guys. It sounds kind of juvenile to say it that way, but we will be using and hearing from the stakeholders, and we will get better legislation as a result of it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments? Seeing none, the honourable member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke has two minutes to respond.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Thank you very much, and I appreciate the response from the member from Brant.

You know, as we've said before, and not necessarily in the comments today, there's every reason to be proceeding with a bill of this nature. We know that police forces have been looking for this kind of assistance in allowing them to do their jobs better for some time now, so we have no reason to believe that this bill is not going to be helpful in some way.

The member responded to some of the concerns, and we appreciate that. We hope that, through the process of committee and public hearings and getting the feedback from those who may understand these things, quite frankly, better than the people who actually sit in this Legislature—because our job is not understanding, completely and perfectly, legislation; our job is to make decisions at the end of the day, whether that legislation will pass or not—we will have a better understanding of how this bill can affect police services and crime prevention and the apprehension of criminals across this country.

We look forward to that, and we appreciate the government's moves to bring this forward. I hope we can make this the best bill that it can possibly be by having a substantive and worthwhile committee process.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate? Seeing none we'll deal with the motion.

Mr. Bartolucci has moved second reading of Bill 203. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Shall the bill be ordered for third reading?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I'd ask that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Justice Policy, please.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): So ordered. Orders of the day?

Hon. Brad Duguid: No further business, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): There being no further business for this morning, this House stands in recess until 10:30, at which time we'll have question period.

The House recessed from 0924 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I'm very pleased this morning to introduce Mr. Bill Cooke, who is the father of Kevin Cooke, who works in my office.

Mr. Norm Miller: I'm pleased to introduce a group that has come down from Burk's Falls to deliver 6,700 petitions here, and I think I have a complete list: Lisa Morrison; Bev Norrena; Jackie Brown; Bette Kitchen; Diane Rutgers; Francisca Bantten; Ken McIntyre; the reeve of Burk's Falls, Cathy Still; Kay Todd; Barbara Barry; Bev Graham; Gwen and Diana Banton; and Lisa Dickenson. I think there's a few others who aren't on my list. I'd like to welcome them to Queen's Park.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I would like to introduce Brenda and Bob Haynes, who are visiting from Port Colborne today. Welcome to them.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would like to welcome to the Legislature guests from London, Ontario: Gary and Mary Margaret Kareen.

Mr. Paul Miller: I would like to introduce Mr. Greg Enright and the members of Glendale High School who are here today.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): On behalf of the member for Vaughn and page Matthew Grossi, we'd like to welcome his mother, Darlene, and his sister Natalie sitting in the east members' gallery. Welcome to Queen's Park today.

USE OF QUESTION PERIOD

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I'd like to beg the indulgence of the House for just a few minutes to allow me to respond to a concern raised on Tuesday by the member from Carleton—Mississippi Mills relating to the use of language in this chamber.

The member will know that the first requirement for the Speaker before calling any member to order for the use of unparliamentary language is that he has to have heard it. If he hears it, the Speaker then has to consider the context, tone and propensity to cause disorder of the language used. For this reason, words and phrases allowed in one instance may not be in another. That is why the Speakers refrain from ruling after the fact, even if a review of Hansard suggests that similar or identical language was used: Hansard cannot reveal the tone or reaction.

In the case at hand, the member from Newmarket—Aurora repeatedly employed the use of unparliamentary language while the minister was trying to answer. While I do try to exercise the greatest latitude during question period, in this instance I was left with little choice but to intervene.

Having said that, my review of Hansard did reveal that there were perhaps more instances of intemperate language from both sides of the House than is necessary. I would therefore ask that all members heed my ruling delivered just this week and moderate their language. This should be of no impediment to conducting oneself honourably in the cut and thrust of question period.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

Mr. Ted Arnott: My question is for the Premier. Why has the Premier been telling taxpayers that the Auditor General cleared him and Minister Smitherman of handing out millions in untendered contracts when the auditor has said no such thing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Just to return to a subject which is important to all of us and remains important to all of us, the auditor made some pretty clear findings, I thought, and offered some very specific and very helpful recommendations. We accept the findings, and we will adopt wholeheartedly the recommendations.

I think he said in particular that there was a lack of oversight. We accept that. I think he said that a lack of oversight and the breaking of rules "go together like a horse and carriage"; we accept responsibility for that. The single most important remedy we've already put in place is to ensure that we can no longer have sole-source contracts for our consultants. They must now be part of a competitive bidding process. That's a very important step forward. That changes a rule, by the way, that had been in place under the previous government.

We think it's no longer appropriate, and there are other things that we're doing as well to strengthen confidence in eHealth and all systems of government.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Ted Arnott: Nine different times since the auditor's report on the eHealth scandal was released, the Premier has quoted the auditor in this House as having said party politics were not a factor in the sweetheart deals the McGuinty government made with Liberal-friendly consultants. But yesterday, when the auditor testified before the public accounts committee, he said, "We didn't conduct a specific investigation with respect to this." At the same meeting, the auditor said, "We didn't do any research into who could be politically tied...." Why is the Premier telling taxpayers the auditor didn't find proof of political ties when he knows the auditor wasn't even looking for it?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: That's an important piece of new information, but I want to read you the rest of the quotation put forward by the auditor. He said, "All we're saying is, we kept our eyes open; we didn't see any evidence of it." That's what the auditor said. He didn't see any evidence of party politics. I think that's important.

I think that what's important now is that we move forward. We've got the findings; we've got the recommendations; we know what to do. In fact, we have laid a strong foundation over at eHealth when it comes to putting in place electronic health records for all Ontarians. There's more work to be done and we are eager to keep moving ahead with that.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Ted Arnott: The Premier's entire defence against calling an inquiry has been this quote that he has distorted and lifted out of context from page 11 of the auditor's report. But the auditor testified yesterday, and again I quote: "I wouldn't want to say that our work would have been comprehensive enough to allow someone to conclude that on all ... contracts, without a doubt, we're concluding that there definitely weren't political ties." It's time the Premier put aside gamesmanship. Tell the whole truth to taxpayers. If the auditor himself says he wasn't investigating political connections, then why won't the Premier appoint a commission of inquiry that will do that?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Just to repeat what was said in the original report, "We were aware of the allegations that 'party politics' may have entered into the awarding of contracts and that those awarding the contracts may have obtained a personal benefit from the firms getting the work—but we saw no evidence of this during our work." He also said—again, I think it's important to have the entire quotation used. The rest of that quotation is, "All we're saying is, we kept our eyes open; we didn't see any evidence of it." Again, that's the issue of party politics.

We think that we've got a very comprehensive report, comprehensive findings, intelligent recommendations. We accept them wholeheartedly and we will continue to move ahead.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: My question is for the Minister of Government Services, the minister who is now, under new legislation, the integrity czar for Canada's worst government. Minister, in that role, ensuring integrity within government, are you concerned about the Premier telling taxpayers that the auditor investigated Liberal ties to the millions of dollars handed out by Minister Smitherman and Management Board when he did not conduct any such investigation?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I am very proud of our government's record. We have taken the right steps to move forward. Let me just talk about some of those steps.

Just recently, the Premier announced four steps to increase accountability to protect taxpayer dollars. We have introduced two-page summaries for travel, meal and hospitality expenses. All OPS employees, political staff, agencies and boards will receive mandatory computer-based training. Expenses of all senior OPS management, cabinet ministers, political staff and senior executives of 22 agencies will be posted online. That talks about the transparency that our government is committed to, and I'm very proud of the record that our government has on that front.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: Speaker, like me, I'm sure you didn't hear an answer in that response.

When Sheila Fraser, the federal Auditor General, discovered that Alphonse Gagliano wasted 100 million taxpayer dollars, the federal Liberals referred the scandal to the ethics commissioner of the RCMP, then Justice Gomery. When Ontario's auditor found that Minister Smitherman and the Premier wasted a billion dollars, 10 times as much, the McGuinty Liberals tried to bury the scandal—no police investigation, no public inquiry.

Has the minister, our new integrity czar Takhar, at least contacted the Integrity Commissioner to investigate whether any friends of the Liberals were among those who got rich in this Liberal billion-dollar boondoggle?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: Sometimes we need to look at the facts, and sometimes the facts speak louder than words. In 2001-02 the total consultant expenditures under the previous government were $656 million, and we have consistently reduced that number to roughly $360 million or $370 million right now. That is a considerable decrease in consultant numbers. So if $370 million is a big number for them, what about the $656 million that they had in 2001-02? What do they say about that?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: Still no answer.

The minister, integrity czar Takhar, is responsible for the Public Service of Ontario Act. As the only minister in Ontario history to be found in violation of the Members' Integrity Act, he knows first-hand that ministers have a duty to ensure ethical conduct in their political offices.

The Provincial Auditor has confirmed that his financial audit did not investigate political links between Minister Smitherman or the Premier and their former political aide. Has anyone looked into the ethics of Minister Smitherman's conduct in this billion-dollar scandal?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I will refer that question to the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Yesterday, the auditor said, "I have seen that headline as well: Auditor Says a Billion Dollars Is Wasted." What did the auditor say? "That would be going too far. There is some value that is going to be realized. Certainly, on the infrastructure side, some of that money is going to turn out to benefit the taxpayers."

He also says, "One aspect of the strategic plan that we particularly welcomed was the robust and detailed ... activities to be conducted." It's "a major step forward in crystallizing the government's eHealth priorities and plans, and communicating these to stakeholders."

It's time to actually look at what has happened and stop the political playing that you're doing.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. For the past week, the Premier has told Ontario families to brace themselves for cuts to their hospitals and health care, to schools and education, to job training programs. At the same time, he's telling them to pay more with a new tax on everything from home heating to hydro to the coffee in the morning. Why is the Premier asking people to pay more and expect less?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I think there's a very important question that we need to answer together, and that question is being asked by the people of Ontario. These are people who understand that our world has changed somewhat dramatically, and this was something that had been taking place, had been in motion, before the recession got here. It's affecting our economy. It is changing significantly as a result of globalization and other things. And the question is, simply, what do we need to do to make ourselves stronger?

My friend does not have any answers for that. She believes in the status quo. She is a passionate champion and defender of the status quo.

There are certain things we have to do to make ourselves stronger, and one of those is to join 130 other countries that have already risen to the defence of their manufacturers so they can continue to hire more people in the manufacturing sector; that's to have a harmonized sales tax. We're doing that in a way, by the way, that protects our families by reducing their taxes, and we have in place other mitigation strategies as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, there's nothing more status quo than kicking the little guy and giving corporate tax cuts in your budgets. That's the status quo. While the Premier is telling Ontario families that the cupboard is bare, he's telling the business sector to belly up to an all-you-can-eat buffet. Not only does his harmonization scheme provide $5 billion in no-strings-attached tax cuts to business, but he's planning to spend an additional half-billion dollars on another corporate tax giveaway next year. Will the Premier consider delaying these giveaways, or is it only Ontario families who have to pay more and get less?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I always appreciate my friend's interesting perspective on these things, but let's listen to Pat Capponi, 25 in 5: Network for Poverty Reduction. This is her quote: "This budget has moved the bar forward on housing, tax credits and child benefits in ways that will make a tangible difference in the lives of many Ontarians."

I know that my honourable colleague would like to say that somehow we are on one side or the other. The fact of the matter is, we're doing both. We are trying to ensure that we have a strong economy by making sure our businesses can compete. At the same time, we're looking after our families, particularly our most vulnerable.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: In 2001, the current Minister of Finance asked the government of the day the following question: "Can you tell Ontario's families how the $2.2 billion corporate tax cut will benefit our frail and elderly neighbours who are in your care?" Yet today, it's the Premier of this province who's telling seniors not only to expect cuts but to shoulder more of the tax burden so he can fund the no-strings-attached business tax cuts that he used to oppose. If the Premier is serious about restraint, why does he only expect it from some?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I've never once heard the honourable member stand up here and say, "Ninety-three per cent of Ontarians will get a permanent tax cut." I would encourage her to reconcile herself to that reality, because that too is part of our budget. The average family with an $80,000 income will see a permanent 10% tax cut. The first $36,000 of income will see a 17% tax cut. Ninety thousand more Ontarians will no longer pay any personal income tax. That's the kind of balance that we're bringing through our budget. That's why we have food banks supporting our budget. That's why we have poverty groups supporting our budget.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: This Premier knows very well that for every dollar in consumer taxes that we're going to be paying, only 12 cents are going to come back in income tax cuts. That's the reality. The HST may work for some, but it will not work for Ontario's families.

Yesterday, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce wrote to me to explain that under the HST, and I quote from their letter, "employment will continue to grow, albeit at a slightly lower rate than the status quo." And by "slightly," they mean 40,000 jobs a year. Would the Premier use the word "slight" to describe 40,000 jobs a year lost because of his HST scheme?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I've got a copy of that letter to the leader of the NDP. It says: "It has been reported in several media that our report concluded sales tax reform will lead to the loss of some 40,000 jobs in the province.

"Let the record show that this narrow

interpretation of the report is categorically not true."

I think my colleague knows in her heart of hearts that the reason the harmonized sales tax is so strongly recommended by economists not only here in Canada but worldwide is because in fact it strengthens our economy. It enhances the competitiveness of our businesses. It enables them to hire more Ontarians, which is our ultimate objective: to ensure that there is more employment, more job security for more Ontarians. Our HST is an absolutely integral part of that plan, to achieving that end.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: On countless occasions, the Premier and his ministers said that the HST will create jobs; in fact, they're shouting it right now. Yesterday's letter from the chamber concedes that the HST will cost Ontario jobs. They say the effect will be slight; I say 40,000 people not getting a job in the middle of a recession is alarming. How can the Premier justify a policy that will cost 40,000 jobs?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I think I've got to repeat, for the benefit of my colleague, the contents of the letter which was sent to her. Again, the letter says:

"It has been reported in several media that our report concluded sales tax reform will lead to the loss of some 40,000 jobs in the province.

"Let the record show that this narrow

interpretation of the report is categorically not true."

In fact, the report explicitly states that the level of employment does not decline as a result of sales tax reform. I think, again, it's important to consider information in its entirety, because it's more accurate when we do that.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier has called the HST the single-most important thing that he can do. Even his cheerleaders at the chamber of commerce concede that that means the loss of up to 40,000 jobs. The HST, coupled with the great corporate tax giveaway, will leave the treasury of this province with a gaping revenue hole. Why is the Premier backing a plan that's going to make life more expensive, that's going to make it harder to find a job, and leads to cuts in the services that Ontario families rely on?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I'm going to have to suggest to—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I guess I'm going to have to encourage Mr. Crispino to send yet another letter to my honourable colleague, because he came to what I think is a natural and logical conclusion at the end of his letter. At the end of his letter he says, "Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to set the record straight," but apparently that has not worked. The record is not yet straight in the mind of my honourable colleague, so I'll encourage him yet again to send another letter to my honourable colleague.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Norm Miller: My question is to the Minister of Health. Minister, today in the public gallery, a number of residents and health care workers have made the long trip from Burk's Falls to show their frustration at losing their health centre. They brought petitions signed by some 6,700 residents, which I'll present today.

In rural areas, we don't have the luxury of having a hospital or doctor's office on every corner, so the loss of this health centre is a significant blow to this community and surrounding-area residents. These residents and health care workers are asking you to reconsider closing the Burk's Falls health centre. Minister, will you do that?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Let me assure the member opposite and all members of this Legislature that we're committed to providing quality health care for all Ontarians, regardless of where they live. So whether they live in rural areas or in urban areas, we are committed to excellent health care for all.

We do recognize the unique challenges that rural and northern communities face, and that's why we've created the rural and northern panel. It will identify some of the unique health care challenges, and it will recommend steps that we can take to improve access to health care in rural and northern Ontario using existing resources. Our government is committed to examining the issues and providing a provincial framework to support northern and rural communities. We expect to hear back from them in early 2010.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Norm Miller: Well, Minister, the panel won't have done its work by the time Burk's Falls is closed. Burk's Falls will be closed by the time this panel reports.

Minister, this is the second trip to Queen's Park for many of these people. Of course, last time they came down here, they didn't know that a billion dollars had been wasted on consultants and cronies by Canada's worst government with little to show for it. They are justifiably upset. You cannot expect people to keep quiet when their health care is in question. Closing the Burk's Falls health centre just pushes those patients on to hospitals in Huntsville or North Bay, forcing them to drive long distances in bad weather for the care they currently get in their own community.

Minister, is this your idea of better health care?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As I said in the initial question, we want to look at exactly the kind of challenges you raise. We know that people in rural areas face challenges when it comes to distance, when it comes to weather. Access to health care for all Ontarians is very important to us.

I think it's also important to acknowledge that the platform of the party opposite is actually to reduce health care spending. As far as I know, cutting $2.5 billion out of health care is still part of the Conservative Party platform.

HEALTH CARE

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est également pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée.

Today in the gallery are Bob and Brenda Haynes from Port Colborne. Bob's mother, Mrs. Haynes, recently developed a blood clot and decided that she'd better get to the hospital and get some care, like all of us would do. But Mrs. Haynes lives in Port Colborne, and they no longer have an emergency department. Mrs. Haynes finally got to an emergency room in a different hospital in a different community. With all the waits and delays, precious time had been wasted and tragedy struck. Mrs. Haynes suffered a severe stroke.

Minister, how can you allow health care cuts to rural communities that put our families at risk?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: First, let me express my sincere condolences and wishes for the very best for your family. I think this story demonstrates how precious our health care system is to all of us.

I think it's also very important to acknowledge that there have been no cuts to health care. There have been, year after year, increases to health care. In fact, we have increased access to health care, we've increased spending in health care. In the Niagara area, we have enhanced health care substantially. In fact, we've increased spending by over $88 million. That's not to say there aren't challenges going forward. It is what I am committed to doing.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: The reality is that the emergency department was not there and his mother had a severe stroke. The reality is also that your government has given its blessing to emergency room and urgent care centre closures across many northern and rural communities, while we all know a million dollars a day is handed out to consultants; a billion dollars went to eHealth with little to show for it. In the gallery, like my colleague mentioned, there are residents from Burk's Falls who lost their urgent care centre and they are seeking answers.

Now Ontarians are being told that there are more cuts to services on the way. Will this government agree to a moratorium on northern and rural health care service cuts until the expert panel that you referred to releases its report?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The only thing we are doing is improving health care in this province, and I tell you that we have made tremendous gains.

When I think back to 2003, when I was first elected, there was a serious lack of access to primary care physicians. Today, over 800,000 Ontarians have access to primary care that they didn't have before. That includes people in rural areas, that includes people right across the province.

When I was elected in 2003, people waited for a hip replacement for well over a year. We've cut wait times for hip replacements by 57%. That's 200 days faster that people are getting new hips than they were when we were elected.

We can talk about cataract surgery. People were waiting well over a year, sometimes two years, for cataract surgery. We've been able to cut wait times for cataract surgery by 203 days. That's 203 days that people are able to read—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

FLU IMMUNIZATION

Mr. Eric Hoskins: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. I was pleased to hear yesterday that the federal government has approved the H1N1 vaccine for use in Canada and that provinces, including Ontario, have begun distributing the vaccine to communities. My St. Paul's constituents have begun asking me when vaccination against H1N1 will begin in their community. Many have young children or specific medical conditions and want to ensure they get vaccinated early so they can be protected against the potential serious impacts the flu could have on them.

Could the minister please tell this House what Ontario's strategy is to get the vaccine out to Ontarians, especially those who need it the most?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: This is a very important question, and I do urge all members of the Legislature to actually pay attention to this because it's important for all of our constituents.

We got federal approval yesterday for the H1N1 vaccine. The vaccine is already on the road getting out to public health units. Our public health officials are deploying the 700,000 doses we've received so far. Vaccinations will begin next week, in some locations as soon as Monday.

We are hoping that people will respect the prioritization of immunizations. There are some people who need it more than others—who need it first. We are asking to let these people go first: people 65 and under with chronic conditions; healthy children six months and over, up to five years; people living in remote and isolated communities; health care workers; and household contacts of care providers of people who are at high risk but not able to be immunized.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Eric Hoskins: I look forward to getting my vaccination, but I also will wait my turn. I look forward to passing along this information to the residents of St. Paul's and telling them to visit ontario.ca/flu for more information.

There have been a number of concerns raised by health officials, doctors and the media regarding the H1N1 vaccine and its possible effects on pregnant women. Many of my constituents are extremely concerned about how safe this vaccine is for themselves, their wives, their sisters and their friends. It is critical that we ensure Ontarians are protected against the spread of this virus, but it is understandable that there are some apprehensions when there are contradictory reports.

Can the minister please explain how pregnant women should go about getting the H1N1 vaccine?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I appreciate the opportunity to clear up some of the confusion around this.

Let me be clear: The vaccine is safe for women who are pregnant and they should get vaccinated. We are recommending that all pregnant women with pre-existing health conditions and healthy pregnant women in the second half of their pregnancy—that's more than 20 weeks—should speak to their health care provider about receiving the—

Hon. Margarett R. Best: Adjuvanted.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The adjuvanted vaccine, thank you, the vaccine with the booster.

Healthy pregnant women in the first half of their pregnancy are at less risk of complications from the flu and should wait to receive the unadjuvanted vaccine when it's available. This recommendation is based on agreement among the federal and provincial governments of Canada and based on the World Health Organization's recommendations in July.

I do encourage all pregnant women to get vaccinated. You will not only protect yourself, you will protect your unborn child.

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr. Jim Wilson: My question is for the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. Under the leadership of this government, Ontario ranks dead last in all of Canada for university class sizes, student-to-faculty ratios and per student funding—only the state of Alabama has a worse student funding record, in all of North America—yet another reason why this government has been declared the worst government in Canada.

But just yesterday, we learned from Statistics Canada that this government has finally achieved a first place finish—yes, first place, as the province with the highest tuition fees in all of Canada. As the Canadian Federation of Students said, "There's no question that Ontario's students are losing out."

Is this not confirmation that the minister's Reaching Higher plan was nothing more than a plan to reach deeper into the pockets of Ontario students?

Hon. John Milloy: The short answer is no. The Reaching Higher plan was the largest single investment in post-secondary education in this province in 40 years.

The question that we need to ask in light of the statistics that the member refers to is, is higher education affordable here in the province of Ontario? And I'm very proud to say that of the $6.2 billion, $1.5 billion went towards student aid, giving the province of Ontario one of the most generous student aid programs in the country.

At the same time, as the honourable member is aware, we do limit tuition increases through a framework, and if a university or college does increase tuition within that framework, they have to make sure that they provide additional funding for students so that financial reasons are never an obstacle to students attending post-secondary education in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim Wilson: When all is said and done, you have the distinction, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, of being the province with the highest tuition fees in all of Canada. Nova Scotia was the highest up until this year; they actually lowered theirs by a few hundred dollars because they were so embarrassed that they were ripping students off. But you seem to think that's just normal.

The Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance says that students have seen their costs grow from what was once a reasonable and manageable rate to what is now an amount that is difficult, if not sometimes impossible, to earn over the summer, even when times are good. Perhaps tuitions wouldn't be so high in this province if you weren't spending $1 million per day on consultants through untendered contracts. In this ministry alone, the government gave a $435,000 untendered contract to John Ronson, the co-chair of the 1995 Liberal election campaign.

I ask the minister, is it the intention of this government to make post-secondary education so unaffordable—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister.

Hon. John Milloy: I'm very proud that Ontario has one of the best post-secondary education systems in the country, if not the world. We boast universities and colleges which are world class. We have made significant investments—$6.2 billion through the Reaching Higher plan, and through the knowledge infrastructure program we came together with the federal government to invest $1.5 billion.

We have 100,000 more students in the system, and I would put our record up against theirs. Let me remind the honourable member that when his party was in power, they cut student aid by 41% and they increased tuition at universities by 71%. We invested $6.2 billion; they cut $435 million from Ontario's colleges and universities in their first two years in office.

SENIOR CITIZENS

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Minister responsible for seniors. The United Senior Citizens of Ontario have written to the minister with a

summary of health, housing and transportation resolutions from their 51st convention this past August. The resolutions reflect the tragic cuts that this government has already made to seniors' services like chiropractic care and physiotherapy. Seniors are even charged user fees for their prescriptions.

This government is issuing its economic statement this afternoon. What additional cuts, costs and loss of service will seniors suffer after 3 o'clock?

Hon. M. Aileen Carroll: I believe I'm correct in directing the question to the Minister of Health since the issues all relate to health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: We have made better health care services for the people of Ontario a very high priority for our government. Those investments disproportionately benefit seniors. I think we would all understand that our health care dollars are being well spent and we're getting better results for seniors because of that.

As I said in answer to an earlier question, hip replacement is a really good example. That is an issue that seniors deal with almost exclusively. People used to have to wait well over a year—two years for hips. They're down by 57%. CT scans: We're making some good progress on that. General surgery: We're coming down on wait times for that. Our whole aging—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: You might want to refer that one to where it should go.

This government has already refused to legislate bathing and personal care standards in long-term-care homes. It has privatized many health, residential and other seniors' services, the basics that seniors need to live a comfortable, affordable, dignified life. On top of all this, this government's planning to impose the dreaded and dreadful HST, which many retired persons have calculated will cost them significantly more every year from now on.

When will this minister and the government finally put the financial and health needs and the dignity of seniors at the top of their priority list?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: One of the signature investments in health care that we've made is the aging-at-home strategy. It's over $1 billion that is being used right now to make sure that seniors get the care they need in their own homes. It's initiatives such as meals on wheels; it's home care; it's more kinds of services. If you are concerned about the care that seniors are getting, I can assure you that our aging-at-home strategy is a very effective use of our dollars, it benefits seniors and it is the right way to go. It is the way we need to go. As our population ages, we need to improve services—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just remind the honourable member from Hamilton—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just ask the honourable member from Hamilton East—you just asked a question—

Mr. Paul Miller: I didn't get an answer.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just remind the member that if he is dissatisfied with a response that comes from any minister, he has the right under our standing orders to call for a late show, and I would appreciate that he would listen to the response.

Minister?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: It's okay; I'm done.

TAXATION

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is to the Minister of Revenue. Minister, the manufacturing industry plays an important role in my riding and many ridings across Ontario. Recently, communities in my riding have been hard hit by job losses as a result of the global economic recession. In Port Hope alone, companies such as Viceroy, and Collins and Aikman, are facing serious challenges. I want to know what our government can do to help these companies and help preserve these jobs. These job allow people to provide for their families and contribute to the Ontario economy.

Business has a concern about the implementation of the HST and what it's going to mean to them. Minister, what is the effect of the HST going to be in the manufacturing sector?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank my colleague for the question. We are going to give our world-class manufacturers in this province a world-competitive tax system so they can compete and win on the world stage. That is the future of manufacturing. That's why the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters have been calling for many years for us to reform our tax system. Specifically for manufacturers, it will provide some $1.1 billion worth of relief, relief that will allow our companies to be even more competitive on the world stage.

Ontario exports some 80% of what we make in this province. We export it to our sister provinces, to our friends to the south and around the world. What we need to ensure is that those companies competing on the world stage have a world competitive tax system. That's exactly why, through the HST and input tax credits, they'll receive some $490 million worth of tax relief a year, some $380 million in corporate tax savings and $280 million with the elimination of the capital tax.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding the HST. A group of businesses called the Smart Taxation Alliance have come together to support the HST because it will encourage business investment in Ontario and the creation of jobs. This group includes the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, AGS Automotive Systems, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, the Ontario Road Builders' Association, the Ontario Trucking Association, the Retail Council of Canada, and the TD Bank Financial Group.

Support continues to grow. The Information Technology Association of Canada and the Railway Association of Canada recently joined the Smart Taxation Alliance. Just yesterday, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce sent an open letter to both leaders of the opposition asking them to take the debate seriously and stop misrepresenting the facts. Minister, who can we trust on this issue? The business—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I believe that the Ontario Chamber of Commerce has been very clear on this. They issued a report called Made in Ontario. They didn't issue a report called Made Up in Ontario, I say to our friends in the third party.

It is important that we look at what the Ontario Chamber of Commerce has said. What they've been saying very consistently is that on the global stage, where we compete for jobs, we need to be competitive, and there are important things that we can do. The one thing that there is almost complete unanimity on in regard to economists is that this is the right thing to do. Difficult as it is, it is the right thing to do.

We on this side of the House say that the status quo is unacceptable. Perhaps those on the other side have a better idea, but I have yet to hear it. We are very clear, on this side of the House, that we need to ensure that our economy is growing and that the jobs of the 21st century are coming right here to Ontario. It is that growth that allows us to afford the high-quality public services that are our birthright in this province, and we will make the difficult decisions to ensure that we are—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

CURRICULUM

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: My question is for the Minister of Education. Minister, many students coming out of high school do not have the basic math skills needed for university programs such as business, science and engineering. As you know, as a result, it is becoming more common for Ontario universities to offer remedial math courses to these students. Brock, Carleton, McMaster, Algoma, Wilfrid Laurier and York are just a few of the universities that have been forced to offer remedial math programs.

Minister, this indicates that there is a serious problem with our math curriculum. What will you do to ensure that our students have the necessary math skills when they enter university?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, this is the first question from my new critic, and I want to acknowledge her depth of experience as a former minister. I look forward to working with her across the floor.

There is obviously always more to be done, but I think we can be very proud of the fact that more kids are doing better and we've got 77% of students graduating from high school. When we came into office, 68% of kids were graduating from high school, so the investments that we're making are paying off.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Again to the minister: According to Professor David Vaughan, the head of the math department at Wilfrid Laurier University, "The problems have gotten worse." He indicates, "Students are coming to universities with diminished mastery of many of the basic skills." This results in more students likely to fail, drop their math course and receive lower grades if they don't receive remedial help.

Minister, I think you would agree that this is a very serious and complicated problem that we shouldn't be foisting on our universities to solve. It requires immediate attention to the math curriculum at the high school level if we're to achieve the high standards that are absolutely necessary if we're going to be able to complete globally.

Minister, what curriculum changes are you prepared to make to help our students achieve math success?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: In fact, we are constantly reviewing the math curriculum. We created a minister's task force on senior mathematics and consulted with university professors. We brought university professors in to talk with us about what changes we should make. Based on that consultation, we revised the grade 12 math curriculum. It was implemented in 2007-08, and it will take a couple of years to see the full fruits of that.

But I just want to go back again to the international comparisons. If you look at how we're doing internationally, Ontario students are scoring very high. If we look at science—and I think we can understand that a good understanding of math is important in science—and we look at the PISA results—the Programme for International Student Assessment—in overall science, only Finland and Hong Kong performed higher than Ontario. So, by objective measures, Ontario students are doing very, very well.

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr. Rosario Marchese: A question to the Premier: Premier, while your government squandered close to $1 billion on eHealth, spent $389 million on consultants and hid hundreds of thousands of dollars in secret payments to Ontario government bureaucrats, university tuition fees in Ontario rose between 20% and 36%, making Ontario the most expensive place in Canada to get a post-secondary education. Ontario undergraduates pay close to, if not, $6,000 a year in tuition.

When is your government going to redirect its generosity away from privileged insiders to university students?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. John Milloy: I remind the member again that the real question is the affordability of post-secondary education here in the province of Ontario. I'm very, very pleased to say that we have one of the most generous student support systems in the country. We've more than doubled our investments in student aid since 2003. We've tripled the number of grants available to students. In fact, right now one in four students receive non-payable grants.

In terms of tuition itself, I continue to remind the honourable member that we have a tuition framework which limits increases in tuition at colleges and universities. If a college or university takes advantage of an increase within that framework, at the same time they have to provide additional financial assistance to students to make sure that financing is never an obstacle to a student attending post-secondary education.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Students are drowning in debt, and the minister keeps saying, "We're working on a quality life preserver." That's the answer he gives us all the time. Ontario is at the bottom in Canada in per capita funding for post-secondary education. Class sizes in our universities are the largest in Canada. Many of our university courses are taught by part-time professors. Many universities have flat fees for part-time students. Textbook and travel grants have been cut in half. And your record-setting tuition rates will increase the crippling debt of our students at a time when many graduates have been unable to find jobs.

Minister, why is it that every other province in the country is able to take better care of their university students than you are?

Hon. John Milloy: Again, I believe that we have one of the best post-secondary systems in the country, if not the world, here in Ontario. Over the last number of years, we have welcomed 100,000 more students into our colleges and universities. The member speaks about student assistance. I would point out that when it comes to student aid, the loan default rate is the lowest it's ever been in the province of Ontario. We've tried to take a balanced approach. We've limited tuition and we've increased student aid. Mr. Speaker, they tried to take a balanced approach as well: They increased tuition by 50% and the NDP cut student aid by 50%. That was their version of balance.

L'hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Premièrement, je voudrais féliciter mon collègue d'Ottawa—Centre pour son intérêt à apprendre la langue de Molière. Félicitations.

L'Office des affaires francophones est déjà en train d'analyser les recommandations du commissaire en collaboration avec d'autres ministères, et je m'engage aujourd'hui à travailler avec mes collègues pour mettre en œuvre ses recommandations.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

L'hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Notre gouvernement a bien avancé dans les recommandations.

Enfin, la troisième recommandation concerne notre pouvoir réglementaire sur près de 7 500 agences. Alors l'Office des affaires francophones a commencé une analyse juridique qui devrait déboucher bientôt sur des recommandations. Le commissaire est conscient que c'est un travail de longue haleine, et j'ai hâte de poursuivre ce travail avec lui et mes autres collègues en ce qui concerne les recommandations qu'il a annoncées hier.

TIRE DISPOSAL

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. I've heard from farmers that your government has introduced yet another cost that is hurting our agricultural community. A farmer from Dufferin—Caledon recently came to see me about the tire stewardship fee that came into effect on September 1. To replace a 42-inch tractor tire, there is now a $250 fee. By comparison, for a car tire the new fee is $5.84. Minister, why are you imposing this discriminatory new fee on farmers?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of the Environment.

Hon. John Gerretsen: First of all, as everyone knows, it's not a tax. It is an environmental fee that goes to the stewardship council of Ontario to make sure that the tires that we have an overabundance of in this province—over 11 million abandoned tires are all over the province—are properly recycled.

This government believes that we have a stewardship of the environment and one good way to do it is to make sure that those items that can be properly disposed of and properly recycled into other material should—that we should do that. That's exactly what the tire recycling program is all about. It is not money that's coming to the government. It's coming to the stewardship council, which will make sure that the proper recycling is done.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I asked the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs because it is her responsibility to defend Ontario farmers. The minister is proving once again that she refuses to defend Ontario farmers.

Minister, since the Minister of Agriculture will not defend Ontario farmers at the cabinet table, will you immediately exempt farmers from the tire stewardship program?

Hon. John Gerretsen: I'll refer the question back to the Minister of Agriculture.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: I think that it's very important to remind the people in this assembly and to say to farmers—who, by the way, are the first stewards of this earth and who look for every opportunity to demonstrate environmental responsibility. I would say to the honourable member that before any of this was considered, there was—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I will remind the honourable member from Dufferin, as I reminded another member earlier: If one is dissatisfied with an answer, they have an opportunity under the standing orders to call for a late show.

Minister of Agriculture.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: It's very important to remember that when the government moves in this direction, there is an opportunity for the public to provide their input.

My colleague the Minister of the Environment would remind the folks here that these fees are part of the cost of doing business, and for farmers that does become a part of their business program, and with programs in the agriculture industry, they can claim that as a business expense.

Farmers, I'm sure, in Dufferin—Caledon want to be environmentally responsible—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday I asked the Minister of Finance whether the government would consider implementing a tax credit for farmers who donate surplus crops to food banks. For every dollar that the tax credit costs, $7 of fresh food will make it on to the tables of low-income families—140,000 children. That's an excellent return on investment.

In his answer yesterday, the Minister of Finance chose to attack me and the NDP rather than comment on this innovative idea. So I am asking the question again, this time to the Premier: Will the government implement a food producer donation tax credit?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Let me just make public the private conversation that the Minister of Finance and I had subsequent to the question being put forward to the minister. We both thought that there may be something to this. The Minister of Finance has in fact undertaken to consider this. It was the first time he had been apprised of this particular possibility.

I'll tell you why I am personally drawn to it—and I'm not making any commitments—because some time ago, I had the privilege of putting forward a private member's bill, a good Samaritan bill, that enabled people in the fast food industry and our grocery stores to make contributions of food, which would otherwise go into the garbage, to our needy. That worked, and it worked well. As I said to the Minister of Finance—he's undertaken to take a serious look at this, just so you know.

Mr. Michael Prue: I thank the Premier for coming to an entirely different conclusion than his Minister of Finance, because millions of pounds of fresh food are wasted every year in Ontario. At the same time, food banks lack healthy produce to provide to an increasing number of Ontarians forced to turn to them for help.

Tax credits for crop donations to food banks have been successfully implemented in Oregon, Colorado and North Carolina. The Ontario Association of Food Banks and the Ontario Federation of Agriculture support the idea; so do thousands of hungry Ontarians.

I thank the Premier for having a change of heart, and I look forward to him saying a good deal more in the future in support of this good idea.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: As I said, I don't want to exaggerate; neither do I want to diminish the commitment. We are going to take a serious look at this. I'm drawn to it. I like the sound of it. Obviously there is a cost to it, and we need to take a look at that as well.

What I can say, in that very vein, is that when there was a sow cull in Ontario, Ontario families benefited from that. We moved quickly to provide $110,000 to process over 100,000 pounds of pork, something that was welcomed by the Ontario Association of Food Banks. As I say to my honourable colleague, I appreciate the idea, I appreciate his championing this idea, and we will indeed give this very serious consideration.

TOURISM

Mr. Rick Johnson: My question is for the Minister of Tourism. As we all know, the economy has been on the minds of everyone lately. There is no doubt that these are challenging times.

I know that Ontario's tourism industry is feeling the effect of the economic climate as well. It is facing significant challenges, including confusion over passport requirements, the fluctuation of the Canadian dollar and the state of the economy. These challenges have impacted each and every community in Ontario, including in my riding of Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock.

In this time of economic concern, can the minister explain to this House what the McGuinty government is doing to sustain the tourism industry across the province?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: As I acknowledged earlier this week, these are challenging times, and they are certainly challenging times for the tourism industries, like so many other sectors in the province.

Ontario's festivals and events are a major element of our tourism industry and an economic driver for many, many communities across the province. Firstly, I'd like to just mention to the member and to the House that it was the McGuinty government that created Celebrate Ontario, a program that is committed to providing ongoing funding in its program and to provide funding to events and festivals across the province.

Again this year, we are pleased that we are investing $11 million in the upcoming Celebrate Ontario 2010. Last year, we were able to help 224 festivals and events in the province. This was more than double the number of events we helped the year before.

I'm pleased to advise the House that on September 30, an invitation to festivals and events organizers was extended to apply to our program for 2010. The program not only helps festivals and events enhance their programming, it also gives both residents and visitors new reasons to travel to a variety of areas across the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The time for question period has ended.

This House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1134 to 1300.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I have a message from the Honourable David Onley, the Lieutenant Governor, signed by his own hand.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The Lieutenant Governor transmits supplementary estimates of certain sums required for the services of the province for the year ending March 31, 2010, and recommends them to the Legislative Assembly.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NATIONAL FOSTER FAMILY WEEK

Ms. Sylvia Jones: The week of October 18 to 24 is National Foster Family Week. I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the tremendous commitment that foster families make to our children.

Foster families are not only responsible for giving children the basic necessities of life, but also creating a home where they feel loved and protected. Last year, over 7,000 foster homes provided family-based care for vulnerable children in Ontario. As it stands, over 27,000 children in Ontario are in need of alternative care from children's aid societies. The importance and value of foster families is immeasurable.

We must remember that volunteers strengthen, enhance and augment children's aid society programs. These programs could not function without these skilled and committed people. With their dedication, vulnerable children in Ontario are able to live in a caring home.

Professionals also play an integral role. Over 8,000 full-time employees work for children's aid societies. Without their support, foster families would be unable to receive the help they need.

However, while children's aid employees strive to improve the lives of families in Ontario, Liberal budget cuts have left CASs struggling to retain their valuable and committed employees. With looming cuts, foster families should be concerned that their support network will not be there for them and their families.

Foster families play a fundamental role for children in need. Our communities have been strengthened because of these remarkable citizens. I thank and applaud them for their efforts.

SCOTTY RAMAGE

Mr. Wayne Arthurs: I rise in the House today to commend an extraordinary constituent in my riding of Pickering—Scarborough East. Alfred Ramage, better known simply as Scotty, is the most committed volunteer in our community that you could possibly find. At the age of 78, Scotty has been married to his wife, Betty, for the past 56 years, and has been volunteering his time consistently for the past 40 years.

Mr. Ramage enlisted in the British army, where he served from 1948 to 1951, and joined the militia for the next eight years. He then immigrated to Canada.

In 1969, Scotty began volunteering with St. John Ambulance, with whom he is still involved, helping to teach first aid courses, standing on duty at hockey arenas during community events and personally assisting at two major accidents, at one of which, a train derailment, he spent two solid days. Mr. Ramage has received a medal from St. John Ambulance for his long years of service.

Scotty is also known in our riding as a committed community member who has gone above and beyond giving to the Red Cross, having donated 189 pints of blood. He was awarded a pin to commemorate his 150th donation.

To list this generous man's achievements would take far more time than is available to me, but I can tell you that Mr. Ramage has received numerous awards, including the town of Pickering civic award. He is past chairman of Poppy Day for the Royal Canadian Legion and past president of Branch 606 in our riding.

To truly commemorate Scotty's tremendous outreach in our community, he had the honour of receiving the Governor General's Caring Canadian Award in 2007.

I want to congratulate Scotty for his tremendous work in our community.

ENDANGERED SPECIES

Mr. John Yakabuski: When the Minister of Natural Resources introduced Bill 184, the Endangered Species Act, I expressed concern at the time that the government had surrendered to the agenda of those opposed to logging and that the legislation was based on political science. After hearing of the regulations concerning the habitat of the wood turtle, there is no doubt that is true. The wood turtle habitat regulation received cabinet approval after one meeting in Toronto. The people whose livelihood will be most affected were not part of the meeting. Those vehemently opposed to logging got whatever they asked for—this, without any scientific study to support the request.

Why is the McGuinty government willing to enact regulations that will literally devastate the economy of my riding of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke? The answer appears to be simple mathematics: It's all about votes. Whatever happened to principles and doing what is right? Cabinet approved this regulation without consideration for the crippling effect it would have on the rural people most affected. No socioeconomic assessment was ever conducted. Sacrificing the people of rural communities to satisfy those who despise their way of living is clearly putting politics over people.

This regulation has not yet been filed. I would ask the Premier to do the right thing and table it until meaningful consultations with those affected are held. You have your hands around their throats. Will you squeeze tighter, ensuring their demise, or release your grip, let them breathe and listen to their side of the story?

CHILD CARE

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Wednesday, October 21—yesterday—was Child Care Worker and Early Childhood Educator Appreciation Day. This year, Dr. Charles Pascal, a constituent of mine in Toronto—Danforth, received the annual award for excellence in advocacy by the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care and CUPE Ontario for his work with our best future in mind.

This past summer, I met with a group of frustrated parents in my riding who were anxious to find the safe, affordable, well-run daycare, publicly funded child care, that's not only good for our children, our families and our communities but also is essential to help us rebuild Ontario's economy.

There are seven concerts for children and parents being held around the province from October to November of this year, sponsored by the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care, CUPE Ontario and the Ontario Federation of Labour, to advance the child care agenda. The event in my riding of Toronto—Danforth, called It's Time to Jump Up for Public Child Care, will be at Riverdale Collegiate, 1094 Gerrard Street East, on November 8, from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. Chris McKhool and Quebec's Genticoru will be performing. There will be readings by local authors and goodies for kids to bring home.

I urge everyone to come out and support daycare and support these events. I'll be there showing my support.

HANOVER VENEER

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: Last Friday, I had the opportunity to make an exciting funding announcement on behalf of the Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry. Bernie McGlynn Lumber will receive a $191,300 grant through the ministry's forest sector prosperity fund in order to establish a new company, Hanover Veneer, in the community of Hanover, which will produce high-quality veneer panels. This company will also be provided a loan guarantee of $765,000.

Hanover Veneer is a manufacturer of high-quality hardwood veneer panels. This facility is one of only a few integrated mills that can slice and splice veneer in the same location. When fully operational, Hanover Veneer will create about 28 jobs within the mill, in addition to other spinoff benefits in the local economy.

The McGuinty government has committed over $1 billion in various programs over five years to increase the competitiveness of Ontario's forest industry. The forest sector prosperity fund and loan guarantee program has leveraged over $742 million in new private sector investment. This is yet another example of how this government continues to make investments in sustainability and building a strong economy for the future.

DISASTER RELIEF

Mr. Jim Wilson: Over a month ago in this House, the Deputy Premier, George Smitherman, said in response to my question regarding assistance for apple growers who were severely affected by the August 20 tornado in the Town of the Blue Mountains, that he would work with the agriculture minister and me to come up with a solution for our apple growers. Well, a lot of time has passed since then, and as it stands today, two months after the tornado, the farmers haven't received anything. It's estimated that up to $4 million in damage was done that may not be covered by existing programs.

To date, it has been left up to me and the Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association to assess the damage and put a value on it. The government promised to do it weeks ago, and to date nobody has come to confirm the apple growers' losses. All Agricorp did was speak to the farmers and tell them what they could have, or should have, received if they were enrolled in its programs. They didn't document the growers' financial losses, as was promised by the government.

The Liberal government has said all the right things, but there's no action behind their words. Two ministers have come up and toured the damage, posed for photos and gotten themselves on the evening news, but they've done absolutely nothing to actually help, despite assurances from them that they would help.

There is a real need for assistance in the Town of the Blue Mountains. It takes up to nine years for an apple tree to come back and be profitable after it is planted. So I call upon the government to keep their promises to help, get down to work and get money flowing to these apple growers.

SCHOOL BREAKFAST PROGRAM

Mr. Mario Sergio: Just recently, the Toronto Foundation for Student Success was in my riding of York West to promote nutrition programs in our schools and bring awareness to their new partnership with Breakfast Clubs of Canada. This exciting partnership will help support more than 600 nutritional programs across the city, and will ensure that our most vulnerable students receive a healthy breakfast each day before they begin their classes.

I'm happy to report that Emery Collegiate, C.W. Jefferys and Westview Centennial, three high schools within York West, were presented with grants this month to maintain their breakfast programs. This partnership and the funding it brings will go a long way to improve student learning in our schools.

I would like to thank Breakfast Clubs of Canada for raising awareness and financial support for this great cause. I would also like to thank the Toronto Foundation for Student Success for continuing their advocacy for students across the city of Toronto as they continue promoting the importance of nutrition in our schools. I also would like to thank Minister Best and the Ontario government for recognizing and supporting the Toronto Foundation for Student Success breakfast club.

SMALL BUSINESS

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: I stand today to acknowledge October as Small Business Month. Every October, the government of Ontario recognizes the achievements of entrepreneurs and small businesses across Ontario.

Small businesses in Ontario account for 97% of firms. In my riding of Mississauga—Brampton South, these are businesses like Enjo Canada, which drive the local economy and create jobs. Small businesses contribute to Ontario's diverse, innovative and globally competitive economy, and while we celebrate Small Business Month, their efforts are felt all year round.

As part of Ontario's competitive tax reform package to make Ontario more competitive, small businesses will have a tax cut of about 17% and the small business surtax will be eliminated. We need to do whatever it takes to strengthen our economy and create new jobs. When businesses succeed, Ontario succeeds.

So I salute small businesses and say thank you to all the small business operators across the province who are generating wealth and making our communities and this province prosperous to live in.

ISLAMIC HISTORY MONTH

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: I'm honoured to rise today and share with my colleagues and all Ontarians that October is Islamic History Month in Canada. I would like to welcome and thank the members of the community who have come today to exhibit and discuss the important role Islamic society has played in our history. I commend them for their efforts to build bridges of understanding, mutual discovery and appreciation between Canadian Muslims and Canadians of all beliefs.

Throughout this month, communities across this country will celebrate and share the diversity and rich history of Muslim civilization, with activities, exhibitions, lectures, book fairs, documentary films and, best of all, an opportunity to learn about such an important part of history and our own Canadian fabric. Islamic culture and Muslim individuals have profoundly influenced and advanced the arts, sciences, medicine, architecture, humanities, music, philosophy and spirituality, both today and over thousands of years.

This year, Islamic History Month Canada is celebrating its third year on the theme of Islamic finance, which is a timely topic. Islamic financial principles rest on the balanced allocation of money and the absence of interest. For example, Islamic mortgage holders pay rent rather than interest, and banks must match loans with deposits, charging fees rather than interest to pay for their services.

Also integral to Islamic financial values is the Zakat, whereby Muslims offer 2.5% of their wealth for charity, to share their good fortune with the community and those in need. We might take a moment to consider what this large and growing financial model has to teach us in this time of financial challenge.

Again, I would like to thank the Muslim community of Ontario for their hard work, and I encourage all Ontarians to take a few moments this October to learn about the important contributions of Islam to our history, culture and daily lives.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): I beg to inform the House that pursuant to standing order 98(c), a change has been made to the order of precedence on the ballot list for private members' public business such that Mr. Hillier assumes ballot item number 47 and Mrs. Witmer assumes ballot item number 59.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GENERAL GOVERNMENT

Ms. Helena Jaczek: I beg leave to present a report from the Standing Committee on General Government and move its adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms. Tonia Grannum): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 191,

An Act with respect to land use planning and protection in the Far North / Projet de loi 191, Loi relative à l'aménagement et à la protection du Grand Nord.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed? Agreed.

Report adopted.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 74(b), the bill is therefore ordered for second reading.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

1105481 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2009

Mr. Kular moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr28,

An Act to revive 1105481 Ontario Inc.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 86, this bill is referred to the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

Mr. Norman W. Sterling: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: It has become apparent that all of the government members have copies of this statement, but that that hospitality—

Interjections.

Mr. Norman W. Sterling: Well, you're passing them around right now. I would like the same advantage as other members of the Legislature, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): This is a ministerial statement—for example, unlike a budget—so it's only required that copies be provided to the critics of the opposition, but it's my understanding that copies are going to be made available.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): I'm told copies are available in your lobby. Are we all set? Just so that we understand, it's different than a budget distribution.

Minister of Finance.

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

AND FISCAL REVIEW /

PERSPECTIVES ÉCONOMIQUES

ET REVUE FINANCIÈRE

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present the 2009 Ontario economic outlook and fiscal review.

In the past year, the recession has had a significant impact on the global economy—and on Ontario.

Many jurisdictions are facing sharp declines in revenues and increasing expenses as people turn to governments for support.

Notre mission à l'heure actuelle est claire : créer des emplois, aider les familles et mettre en place les conditions propices à une nouvelle ère de croissance économique.

Our plan to confront the challenge of this global recession, as outlined in the 2009 budget, was and continues to be the right plan for the times.

Like governments all over the world, we have taken firm action. We are investing in infrastructure, in skills training and in reshaping our tax system, all to ensure that we are ready for growth.

We have spent the last six years making steady progress rebuilding our public services and now we must turn our attention to sustaining them.

Mr. Speaker, today I will update you on the province's economic outlook and fiscal circumstances.

The global downturn continues to dramatically impact families, businesses and governments.

The global recession has been severe and widespread. According to the International Monetary Fund, world trade is contracting by 11.9% this year.

Economies all over the world have contracted, some far more dramatically than ours. The United States and Europe saw striking declines. Both India and China saw notable slowdowns.

Based on the best available advice, we project a decline of 3.5% in Ontario's real GDP in 2009, followed by modest gains of 2% in 2010 and 3% in 2011. Our planning assumptions are more conservative than the average private sector forecasts.

As of the second quarter of 2009, Ontario's real GDP was 5% below its pre-recession peak.

Due to the global recession, our economy is now the same size as it was in 2005.

Tax revenues are also now at 2005 levels.

As we recently reported in the public accounts, corporate tax revenues last year fell by an unprecedented 48.1%, or over $6 billion.

At the same time, the recession has driven up demand for government services.

More people rely on social assistance. More people require skills training. More people go back to college and university. More people rely on health care services. During a downturn, people depend more heavily on those public services.

Growth in jobs and government revenue generally lags growth in the economy. It takes time to fully recover from a recessionary period.

Other jurisdictions face all of these challenges just as we do. But Ontario had another distinct challenge and an opportunity.

Ontario's auto industry employs hundreds of thousands of people. In fact, more cars are built in Ontario than in any other state or province in North America.

Because of that very fact, the McGuinty government took action: We provided $4 billion to keep people working all over Ontario and to maintain our leadership in the sector—not just in the manufacturing business, but in auto parts, at auto dealers and in auto repair shops all across Ontario.

It is worth noting that Ontario is the only subnational jurisdiction in North America to have participated in the auto support plan.

Deficits have increased sharply in the world's leading economies. Furthermore, as the impact of the recession becomes clearer, governments have updated their estimates of the size of deficits over the past few months.

The US deficit is almost $1.5 trillion. Our federal government is acknowledging a deficit of $56 billion this year, rather than the surplus it projected just a year ago.

Almost all other Canadian provinces are forecasting larger deficits this year. The economic downturn has had a very negative impact on all of us.

Alberta is facing deficits for the first time in 15 years.

The governments of Canada, the United States and some other provinces have all recently adjusted their deficit projections upward for this year.

Due to the impact of the global economy on Ontario and our government's desire to invest in the people of this province, the projected deficit is $24.7 billion in 2009-10.

En raison des répercussions de l'économie mondiale sur l'Ontario et du désir de notre gouvernement d'investir dans les habitants de la province, le déficit prévu s'élève à 24,7 $ milliards en 2009-2010.

The deficit for 2009-10 is consistent with the size of Ontario's economy, relative to the Canadian economy—and generally consistent, proportionally, to the federal government's deficit.

In recent months, we have seen signs of economic recovery.

Financial markets have started to stabilize; equity markets and housing markets have improved.

According to the most recent available statistics, Ontario's international exports increased in June, July and August.

And most importantly, Ontario's labour market has shown modest job gains in each of the past four months.

Though these signs are positive, the impact of the global economic recession is still considerable. Household wealth and consumer confidence are below pre-recessionary levels. Retail sales are still down.

The risks to economic recovery are real. Just in the past few weeks, the Canadian dollar has risen dramatically. Oil prices can also fluctuate, as we've seen recently. Rapidly rising interest rates could also be a further challenge to our economy, should that occur. The speed of the US recovery will have an impact on our growth as well.

As always, government revenues trail economic performance, so it could be some time before economic growth restores revenues to pre-recession levels.

And we know full well that in communities across Ontario, like in communities around the world, unemployment remains too high.

In the near term, we must continue to invest in job creation, in infrastructure, in skills training. Mr. Speaker, we will continue to invest in the people of Ontario.

At the first signs of an economic slowdown, almost two years ago, the McGuinty government took immediate action to lessen the impact on Ontario families by helping to retain jobs and services.

This year and next, we are investing $32.5 billion in infrastructure. A new laboratory is under way at the University of Toronto in Mississauga and Highway 17 in Kenora is being improved, to name just two examples. Shovels are in the ground and people are at work on over 650 projects right across Ontario.

We invested in the auto sector to keep people working.

And we're investing in training. Summer job programs this year helped more than 104,000 young people find employment. Over one million Ontarians have accessed our skills training programs. Our Second Career program alone has already surpassed its targets by helping almost 21,000 people retrain for jobs in very high-demand careers.

In the 2009 budget, the McGuinty government continued to demonstrate its commitment to the most vulnerable, particularly during the economic slowdown. The Ontario child benefit program was accelerated to $1,100 this year, two years ahead of schedule. We also increased social assistance rates for the fifth time since 2003.

Our government made a conscious decision to follow the IMF's advice to invest 2% to 3% of GDP in stimulus, as other countries and provinces have done.

Our focus has been on positioning Ontario for long-term growth.

The single most important thing we can do to make Ontario's economy more competitive is to modernize our tax system. Our proposed tax cuts and the harmonized sales tax would give our businesses and families an important advantage in the global economy. The marginal effective tax rate on income from new business investment would be cut in half—sending a strong signal that Ontario is ready for new business growth.

At the same time, 93% of Ontarians would get a permanent income tax cut. Our most modest income earners would have the lowest provincial income tax rate in Canada.

Le train de mesures fiscales que nous proposons améliorera certainement la situation de l'Ontario. It would create jobs, attract new business in this province and sharply improve our competitive advantage.

Our modernized tax system would be more progressive and would better position Ontario for growth. It would reduce Ontario tax revenue by $2.3 billion over four years, an essential and timely investment in our future.

These and other measures introduced in the 2009 Ontario budget are helping families weather the global economic storm and prepare for solid economic growth as we emerge from the recession.

Ontario, along with most other jurisdictions around the world, is running a deficit in order to preserve and create jobs and establish a stronger economy after the recession.

Ontarians know that this is the right course during tough economic times.

In our 2009 budget we made the right choices for today.

As Ontario comes out of the recession, we will eliminate the deficit and pay down debt to ensure the sustainability of the public services that we all value.

Today marks the beginning of a journey that will lead to the development of our next budget. We are now launching a broad consultation with Ontarians about how best to sustain public services.

The treasury board will begin a comprehensive review of service delivery. It will provide a plan to return the province to a sustainable and firmer fiscal footing with balanced budgets, while protecting key services.

The treasury board's plan will be part of the 2010 budget.

That is just our first step. In the coming months and years, we will change how we do business in this province. We will become a leaner and more efficient provider of quality public services.

Ontario has the second-lowest program expense per capita among all Canadian jurisdictions. We are doing well, but we need to do more.

We will call on our partners in the public and broader public sectors to help us sustain public services in the long term. We will also review all agencies, boards and commissions to ensure they are meeting Ontarians' needs and expectations.

It is incumbent upon all of us to participate in this vital conversation—to help us build consensus on how to manage through this challenge.

We will report on our plan to return the province to balance in the 2010 budget.

Nous traiterons de notre plan visant à rétablir l'équilibre budgétaire de la province dans le budget de 2010.

This won't be easy and it will take time. Working together, we can get it done.

In the coming months, we will also continue to focus on our key priorities—the priorities most important to Ontarians: job creation, health care and education.

Education is, and always has been, one of the McGuinty government's core priorities.

We are dedicated to continually improving education in this province. That is why, later this month, Premier McGuinty will make an announcement about phasing in full-day early learning for Ontario's four- and five-year-olds.

This initiative will further increase the competitive advantage already found in our highly skilled and educated workforce.

Full-day learning for our four- and five-year-olds will also help parents take advantage of new job opportunities.

Making this investment will require difficult choices, and we'll make them.

Our government will balance the commitment to maintain public services while securing a strong and sustainable fiscal footing for Ontario.

That is our task, and we look forward to it.

I have every confidence that Ontario will come through this recession wiser, more efficient, more competitive, stronger and ready for economic growth.

Je suis persuadé que l'Ontario sortira de la récession plus averti, plus efficient, plus compétitif et plus fort, et que son économie sera prête pour la prochaine ère de croissance.

We have the fundamentals in place: a highly skilled workforce, a strong education system and a passion for innovation.

We can and we will compete globally on the basis of our unique strengths.

As a result, this will always be a province where the standard of living is high and where each and every one of us has a real opportunity to succeed.

When we come out of this recession—and we will—Ontario will be bigger, Ontario will be better and Ontario will be stronger.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Responses?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Now it's official: Canada's worst government is now running Canada's worst deficit. A $25-billion deficit represents a historically dismal performance, and this minister and this Premier should be ashamed about their performance and what they've done to the province of Ontario.

Yesterday, I pointed out that Dalton McGuinty had already piled up some $53 billion worth of debt onto the backs of Ontario families. That translated into $11,000 of new debt for every single household in the province of Ontario. And now we know that Dalton McGuinty's debt is even worse than that $53 billion; it is a shameful $65.2 billion in increased debts on the backs of families. That translates into $13,500 on the backs of every single household in our great province, a massive new debt burden on families whose household finances are already stretched to the limit.

How could things get so bad so fast? Yes, we're in a recession, but even the finance minister admitted in his speech that Ontario was hit earlier, fell harder and fell faster than anywhere else. I wonder if the Premier ever asked himself whose fault that might be.

Good times hid a fact that bad times have now revealed—that this government has taken a path of unsustainable spending based upon phony expectations of the economy. Nobody should be surprised that Dalton McGuinty's house of cards has finally come tumbling down.

This deficit is not the McGuinty government's problem. It is proof that the McGuinty government is the problem. That is why this problem will not get fixed until we replace this sad, worn-out McGuinty government.

I'm sure you'll recall, Mr. Speaker, the McGuinty government raised business taxes in its first year, taxes that killed jobs and crippled Ontario's competitive—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Order, member for Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Mr. Tim Hudak: They imposed Dalton McGuinty's so-called health tax, the largest income tax in Ontario's history, and coming this summer they are planning to one-up themselves and impose the largest sales tax greedy grab ever in the history of our province.

How can this government, which imposed new taxes so rapidly, so regularly and with such relish, still manage to squander this revenue and still pile up the most debt in Ontario's history? No doubt, to raise taxes so massively but still pile up such massive amounts of debt is a once-in-a-generation example of gross incompetence.

As the architect of the largest tax increase and largest debt increase in Ontario's history, Dalton McGuinty's time as Premier is already, sadly, one for the history books.

Let's put to rest any notion that this government will ever introduce any meaningful spending restraint. Dalton McGuinty remains hard-wired to higher taxes and higher spending. In just six years, this government jacked up spending by 60% when our economy only grew by 7%. While middle-class families are paying higher income taxes, higher fees, higher auto insurance premiums and higher hydro bills, and spending less time with their families, the government was living high on the hog and has piled up a massive debt burden on the backs of Ontario families.

It is clear the McGuinty government has lost touch with where this money originated from. Hard-pressed families now find themselves saddled with $13,500 each worth of Dalton McGuinty's debt. Clearly, after six years in office, the only way forward is to change this government and change this tired Premier, and we look forward to that battle ahead.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): I can stand here all afternoon.

Responses? The member for Beaches—East York.

Mr. Michael Prue: Since this Parliament resumed, I have waited in anticipation for this day to see exactly where this government was going to go. I have watched, though, in trepidation and fear these last few weeks. Over the last few weeks, it's been very brutal to the people of Ontario. It's been brutal to the children's aid societies that have come before the Legislature and before the committees and said that they just don't have enough money to do what they're mandated to do.

It's been brutal for the unemployed who have come to my office, and I'm sure all of our offices, because the training programs upon which they were hoping to rely are no longer available and will not be available until next year. It has been brutal to the people in small-town and northern Ontario who see their hospitals closing, where they have to travel further and further to get the health care they need.

Over the past few weeks, we have seen as well unfold the whole fiasco of eHealth. We've seen unfold the whole fiasco of the $1-million-a-day addiction of the McGuinty government to private consultants, as the money gets passed out and passed out and passed out, with little or no control.

Over the past few weeks we've also seen the unfolding of I think the greatest fiasco of all, and that will be when consumers pick up the entire tab and businesses get the entire reward for HST.

I listened today to see whether there were going to be any changes, whether the government has learned anything at all over what has happened. I'm very sorry, but I don't see the change that we all know needs to happen.

Today we look at who is going to be hurt. We look at the civil service. I can read the code words. I can see what treasury board is going to do. I can see how we're going to be leaner and meaner. You all know what that means. That means that the people who work hard for us, who are the heart and soul of Ontario, the people who are our civil servants, are going to suffer. There are going to be fewer of them, and I see the whole possibility of Dalton days on the horizon.

As well, what about the HST? The minister stands today and crows about how this is central to the government's recovery plan. But it is not part of the solution; it is part of the problem. Ordinary people across Ontario will tell you they fear what is going to happen, and they know they are going to be the ones who will lose in the end. There was not a single word about eHealth or about consultants' fees in this entire document or in what the minister said—absolutely silent. It appears that the government has not learned a single lesson, nor are they taking any avenues to change all of that.

But what I'm more worried about is what is happening to ordinary Ontarians out there. I've talked about the public employees: the very real prospect I put to them today of Dalton days, the real prospect of layoffs, the very real prospect of them, over the years, having to do more and more with less and less. And I talked to a minister just last week who complained that in her former ministry they went from 12,000 employees to 3,000 and can no longer do what she was hoping they could do. I'm looking to see even more of that in the future.

There was not a single word in this entire thing about the poverty program. This was to have been the poverty Premier who was committed to do something. The only thing that was said was that they have kept up with inflation for the last six years; there had been an 11% increase. That is precisely the inflation rate over those same six years. They are no better off today than they were in the deepest, darkest days of the government before. There's not a word about what they are going to do to actually improve the lives of the 140,000 children who go to bed hungry every night.

There's nothing about children's aid and what you're going to be doing for them, who have the most crucial job to do for the most vulnerable children in this province. There's nothing in here about programs to assist the weak, the vulnerable, the infirm and the old. There's nothing in here, or any commitment to do that at all.

There's nothing here about post-secondary education and our students, who are absolutely struggling—nothing at all in what the minister said here today. And there's no mention at all about the environment; I thought that was a key platform of this government as well.

What we have here today is more of the same old same old. The same things we've watched unfold since this Parliament resumed. The same things about eHealth and consultants—a government that lost its way—and absolutely no new plans that are going to help ordinary people. They can expect to get whacked out there in the months ahead.

PETITIONS

TAXATION

Mr. Jim Wilson: A petition regarding the new provincial sales tax, the HST:

"Whereas the hard-working residents of Simcoe—Grey do not want a harmonized sales tax (HST) that will raise the cost of goods and services they use every day; and

"Whereas the 13% blended sales tax will cause everyone to pay more for, to name just a few, gasoline for their cars, heat, telephone, cable and Internet services for their homes, house sales over $400,000, fast food under $4, electricity, newspapers, magazines, stamps, theatre admissions, footwear less than $30, home renovations, gym fees, audio books for the blind, funeral services, snowplowing, air conditioning repairs, commercial property rentals, real estate commissions, dry cleaning, car washes, manicures, Energy Star appliances, veterinarian bills, bus fares, golf fees, arena ice rentals, moving vans, grass cutting, furnace repairs, domestic air travel, train fares, tobacco, bicycles and legal services; and

"Whereas the blended sales tax will affect everyone in the province: seniors, students, families and low-income Ontarians;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the McGuinty Liberal government not increase taxes for Ontario consumers."

I want to thank Cathy Scott, Wasaga Beach, for sending this petition, which I will sign.

TOM LONGBOAT

Mr. Jim Brownell: I have a petition in support of the Tom Longboat Day Act, and it reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Tom Longboat is Canada's greatest long-distance runner; and

"Whereas Tom Longboat is a great role model for all Canadians;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to pass the Tom Longboat Day Act into law so that we can honour this remarkable athlete and courageous Canadian, who is a great role model to all Canadians."

I support this petition and I shall sign it and send it to the clerks' table.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Norm Miller: I have a petition to save the Burk's Falls and District Health Centre, signed by 6,700 people. It reads:

"Whereas the Almaguin has an aging population level higher than the Ontario average and our local hospital services are vital to our community's economy; and

"Whereas past records of the Burk's Falls and District Health Centre indicate that an average of 8,000 to 10,000 clients per year are treated in the urgent care clinic and patients face longer waits at the Muskoka Algonquin Healthcare services ... emergency room if our urgent care centre is closed; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care ... has struck a task force whose mandate is to develop a rural health care policy;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that the Ontario government stop the cuts to and maintain the existing hospital services, including our inpatient beds, urgent care centre, lab, diabetes education, and publicly funded physiotherapy;

"Be it further resolved that the Ontario government call a moratorium on further changes at the Burk's Falls and District Health Centre until the MOHLTC task force has completed the proposed rural health care policy;

"Be it further resolved that the task force come to Burk's Falls for public consultation on the future of our local hospital and health services."

I've signed this petition, as I support it, and now pass it on to Henry.

IDENTITY THEFT

Mr. Tony Ruprecht: I have another petition which has to do with identity theft and I'm delighted to read it to this Parliament. It is addressed to the Minister of Government Services:

"Whereas identity theft is the fastest-growing crime in North America;

"Whereas confidential and private information is being stolen on a regular basis, affecting literally thousands of people;

"Whereas the cost of this crime exceeds billions of dollars;

"Whereas countless hours are wasted to restore one's good credit rating;

"We, the undersigned, demand that Bill 38, which passed the second reading unanimously in the Ontario Legislature on December 8 ... be brought before committee and that the following issues be included for consideration and debate:

"

(1) All consumer reports should be provided in a truncated (masked-out) form, protecting our vital private information such as SIN and credit card numbers.

"

(2) Should a credit bureau discover that there has been a breach of consumer information, the agency should immediately inform the victimized consumer.

"

(3) Credit bureaus should only report inquiries resulting out of actual applications for credit and for no other reasons.

"

(4) Credit bureaus should investigate any complaints within 30 days and correct or automatically delete any information found unconfirmed or inaccurate."

Since I agree with this petition, I'm delighted to sign it.

SALE OF DOMESTIC

WINES AND BEERS

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I have here a petition signed by more than 6,000 Ontarians and it's been submitted by the Ontario-Korean Businessmen's Association.

"Whereas the province of Ontario restricts the sale of beer and wine to the LCBO, a few winery retail stores and the Beer Store, and the three large beer companies are owned by multinationals;

"Whereas other provinces (notably Quebec) have been selling beer and wine in local convenience stores for many years without any harm to the well-being of the public;

"Whereas it is desirable to promote the sale of beer and wine in a convenient manner consistent with a contemporary society;

"Whereas it is essential to support local convenience stores for the survival of small businesses;

"Whereas it is obvious from the current market trends that the sales of wine and beer in convenience stores is not a question of 'if' but of 'when';

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Liquor Control Act to permit the sale of beer and wine in local convenience stores to the public throughout the province and to do it now."

CEMETERIES

Mr. Jim Brownell: I have a petition, and I'm delighted to see Rob Leverty of the Ontario Historical Society's name on it. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas protecting and preserving Ontario's cemeteries is a shared responsibility and the foundation of a civilized society; and

"Whereas failure to safeguard one of our last remaining authentic cultural heritage resources, Ontario's in