Volume 2 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session VERBATIM REPORT Thursday, March 29, 1973 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 40

March 29. 1973 The House met 11:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! Tape 891 (morning) PIC - 1 HON. T. A. HICKMAN (MINISTER OF JUSTICE): Mr. Speaker, before the presenting petitions. For some time I have been considering the methods of placing further emphasize on the troublesome area of sentencing in our courts. With this in mind I met with the Newfoundland Magistrates'Association who share my concern. It has been decided that the magistrates will hold four seminars on sentencing in the magistrates courts which are to take place during the first two weeks ef April.

These seminars will involve all magistrates in Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, I recognize as do the magistrates the task of sentencing by the magistrate i6one of his most difficult and demanding duties. Uniform sentencing is a very elusive although highly desirable aspect of the enforcement of law and order. It has been stated that there cannot be absolute uniformity of sentencing for given offences since this would require that all offenders be uniform and that all offences that they commit be unifonn. This we all know is not and will not be the case.

While we probably cannot attain uniform sentencing we can strive to attain uniform principles of sentencing,the direct result of which might reduce to some degree at least desparity in sentencing that may occur at present. The many variables that a magistrate faces in arriving at the most appropriate sentence for any given offence include inter alia, the nature of the offence itself, the age and health of the offender, his or her previous record, his or her attitude at the time of trial with respect to rehabilitation, and also.the prevailing attitudes of society towards the given offence at a given point in time.

Our provincial magistrates are very much aware of this need to make every effort to reduce any undesirable disparities in sentencing. I have asked that they study on a continuing basis the 3098

March 29, 1973 Tape 891 (morning) whole area of sentencing. I am pleased therefore to advise this House that plans have been completed for the convening of four seminars on sentencing to be held throughout the province during PK - 2 the month of April, These four seminars will take place in Comer Brook. Grand Falls, St. John's and Clarenville. All magistrates in Newfoundland will participate in one of the seminars. The President of the Newfoundland Magistrates Association will attend all four to provide continuing liaison from one seminar to the other.

It is worthy of note that this is the first time magistrates in Newfoundland have embarked on a programme of regional meetings and seminars in smaller groups. I thank the Newfoundland Magistrates Association for their splendid co-operation in preparing for these seminars. NOTICE OF MOTIONS MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Mines ahd Energy,! give notice that I will on tomorrow introduce a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Crown Lands (Mines and Quarries) Act." ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS RON. H. COLLINS (MINISTER OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING): Mr.

Speaker, I have a question which was directed to me from the honourable member for St. Barbe North concerning the rental control board. Probably it should be direct to the Minister of Provincial of Provincial Affairs, lt concerns the rental control board. What is the procedure, Mr. Speaker? Can we turn over the question to the ~~nister of Provincial Affairs? MR, SPEAKER: Yes. MR. S, A. NF.ARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Acting Premier because the Premier is not in his seat.

Are the reports that we are hearing on radio and in the newspaper and on television that the government have muzzled F.RCO in this recent· spill of phosphorous that is runninr. out in Long Harbour and out into Placentia nay and that the government are now goinp, to do the 3099

March 29, 1973 public relations work for ERCO? MR. RICJ0,1'AN: Mr. Speaker, MR. COT.LINS: Rumours. Tape 891 (morning) PK - 3 'HR, HICKMAN: Or the rumours, but if they have been made,let me assure this House that they are rumours and nothing more. 'HR. NF.ARY: Thank you. HON. G. DAWF. (MINISTER OF MANPOWF.R AND INDUSTRIAL RF.l..ATIONS): Mr. Speaker, I would like to beg leave of the !louse at this time to make a short statement. HON. E. ROBERTS: (LEADF.R OF THF. OPPOSITION): No, not if the ministerwere not here at 11:00 o'clock. MR. DAWE: That is right. Okay. MR. P.S. THOMS: Mr.

Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture I would like to direct a question to the Acting Premier. Could the Acting Premier inform this House as to when the Cook Report is to be tabled to this House? There is quite a conaern in the poultry industry within the province at the present time and the minister has had this report in his hands for over six ,reeks. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I will have to take that question as notice. As the House is aware,the honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture is presently confined to hospital.

I would not presume to act on his behalf, but I will take it as notice. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible, MR, HICJ0,1'AN: I am not certain but I do not believe there is. I think he is doing some work. I am saying that I will take it as notice. While I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I understand that the honourable Xinister of Industrial Relations was absent from the House because he has been at an important meeting and I am wondering if the House would consent, would grant him leave to - AN HON. MEMBF.R: He can make it any time I think. ~. HICKMAN: he is gone. Oh well,carry on! 3100

March 29, 1973 Tape 891 (morning) PIC - 4 RON, DR, T, FARRELL (MINIS7ER OF TRANSPORTATION AND COMMUNICATIONS): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave of the House to table Highway Traffic Regulations, ORDERS OF THE DAY On motion of the honourable Minister of Finance,& bill, ''AD Act To Repeal The Telegraph Tax Act.'' read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable Minister of Highways, a bill, "AD Act To Revise Existing Legislation Respect All-Terrain Vehicles," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion of the honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Local Government (Elections) Act," read a first time, ordered read a second- time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable Minister of Education and Youth, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Memorial University Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow, 3101

March 29, 1973 Tape 892(Morning) On motion of the hon. Minister of Justice,a bill. "An Act Further To Amend The Registration Of Deeds Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the hon. Minister of Justice, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Trustee Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the hon. Minister of Finance, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Social Security Assessment Act, 1972, The Act No. 56 Of 1972," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Ratify, Confirm And Adopt An Agreement Made Between Newfoundland & Labrador Edison Company Limited With Shaheen Natural Resources Company, Inc. As Intervenor And To Make Provision Respecting Other Matters Concerned With The Agreement," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Ratify, Confirm And Adopt An Indenture Made Between The Government, Newfoundland Forest Products Limited, Bowaters Canadian Corporation Limited, Eowaters Newfoundland Limited And Lundrigans Limited And An Agreement Between Government And Bowaters Newfoundland Limited And To Make Provision Respecting Matters Connected Therewith," read a third, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Ratify, Confirm And Adopt A Supplemental Agreement Made Between The Government, Newfoundland Refining Company Limited And Other Companies," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. ADDRESS rn REPLY: HON. T.A. HICKMAN(MINISTER OF JUSTICE): Mr. Speaker, the debate on the Address in Reply was adjourned by Your Honour and Your Honour has asked me to indicate to the House that youwill not be participating 31G2 JM - 1

•I ., •.-.. March 29, 1971 Tape 892(Horning) in the debate. MR. ROWE(W.N.): Well, Mr. Speaker, that means that I shall have to rise to my feet and have a few words to say on the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. I must say, Mr. Speaker, at 11:30 A.M. it is pretty hard to get the old adrenalin up and lash out at this crowd, At least I thought that was the way I would feel when I first came in but once you get in the House and look across at them and their arrogant, supercilious faces on them, Mr.

Speaker, the old adrenalin starts moving again and you find yourself quite capable of lashing out left, right and center at the present administration. Where is the House Leader by the way, Mr. Speaker? He so blithely calls everyone together before dawn in the morning but he does not show up himself. 'What is he, down practicing law aomewhere? MR. ROBERTS: He is probably down advising the Bank of Montreal, MR. ROWE(W.N.): Yes, advising the Banlt of Montreal on what they should do in the circumstances. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. ROWE(W.N.): I was delayed, Mr.

Speaker, I was down there turning out the money, Mr. Speaker, but do not tell my hon. colleague from Bell Island. Well, Mr. Spe~ker, may I begin my few remarks by saying something which I suppose is fairly obvious but I think, Sir, sincerely it should be stated every now and then in order for this province to see what it has been doing and what it is doing and what it hopes to do in the future as far as bettering the standard and quality of life of our citizens is concerned.

Now, Sir, it has always been my firm belief ever since I got in this House and became a member of the government that there are really only two ways that Newfoundland and Labrador are going to surge ahead economically and 31{)3 JM - 2

March 29, 1973 Tape 892(Morning) socially, only two ways, two obvious ways. One is by our own efforts as a province and as a government and the other way is by taking shameless advantage of the fact that we do happen to belong to the Canadian Union of Provinces.

Only two ways that occur to me that we are going to ever make this province really viable economically; By our own efforts whereby we as a government or as businessmen or as labour leaders or as employees or workmen, workers, take advantage of our own sense, I suppose, of near desperation in many.many cases and to use that not as an attitude of defeat,as the Minister of Finance has expressed in this House on one or two occasions, not to give us a defeatist attitude as to how,if this province is ever going to be able to pull itself up by its boot straps, not for that, Mr.

Speaker, but to take advantage, everyone in this province to take advantage of our own sense of near desperation,which has always been the feeling in Newfoundland ever since it first became an entity, near desperation as to whether we really are going to be able to pull this province over the hump or not. That to me, Sir, and to people with whom I associate, that to me is a challange for the future. It does not turn us into defeatists.

It does not make us stand in the House of Assembly and say, "Well, sometimes it seems to me we are never going to be able to make it.b· We might as well lie down and die, curl up in a comer, Mr. Speaker, and pass away. We should use that to make sure that in this province we take advantage of the best talent there is to govern us, to make sure that the best talent is involved in leader­ ship capacity to try to pull this province along, to make us surge ahead economically by virtue of our own efforts. Point number one.

Point number two, Sir, is that we should use the same demonic feeling of pushing our province ahead to take shameful, as I say,shameful advanta~e, complete advantage of the fact that we are a part of Canada, the richest, perhaps the richest actually and 31V4 JM - 3

March 29, 1973 Tape 892(Morning) potentially the richest country on the face of the earth today for the population which it has, just over 20 million people. We should take complete advantage of that, Mr.

Speaker, because it is my feeling that to pursue neither of these avenues open to us, that is our own efforts in this province itself,to develop our resources, to develop all the advantages we have, to develop our manpower, to try to get jobs here in Newfoundland, to get industrialization based on resources and manufacturing industry, unless we do that to our fullest extent, pursue that avenue to its fullest extent and unless ve make sure that we also take advantage of our union with Canada to its fullest extent.then I think that we are in for a disaster.

To pursue neither of these avenues fully would be disastrous. To pursue only one of these avenues and to neglect the other, Mr. Speaker, I think would be equally disastrous. I think that if we were to get the idea into our minds. that sort of the heck with 3105 JM - 4

March 29, 1973 Tape 893 IB-1 Canada,as again the Minister of Finance has almost expressed in those words in this Rouse. Every chance he gets and the other mem~ers of this government they lash out at the Government of Canada giving a firm impression that they are doing nothing not to ingratiate themselves with the Government of Canada but to co-operate with the r.overnment of Canada to make sure that we get the best possible deal from Canada in various progra11DUes.

If we try to rely only on our own efforts,as great as they might be,and do not take advantage of what Canada has to offer, I think that would be only slightly less disastrous rather than tyYing to pursue er making sure we pursue both avenues at once. Also, Sir, if we neglect in this province to do what we can do as Newfoundlanders and try to rely only on Canada, what Canada can dish out to us or pass out to us on a silver platter,I think that will also be disastrous for this province as well.

Certainly we have as a result of our union with Canada things like equalization grants, shared cost programmes and industrial , development grants from DREE and grants and loans from OREE for public services but, Sir, to rely only on these programmes and not to make sure that we pull our own selves up by our boot straps as well would mean that we forever in this province will merely be sort of tagging along, tugged along at the end of what might be called a long rat tail of Canada, just pulled along. Wherever the beast goes we go to,but a very long way behind, Mr.

Speaker, unless we concentrate our efforts on what we can do ourselves as well. What is the good of share-cost progra1m11es,for example, from Canada if we do not have the resources or if we have not provided for resources to make sure that these shared-cost programmes are kept at a good minimum level. What is the sense of industrial development Rrants from DREE,for example,if nobody in this province or if people in this province are discourages from being aggressive and getting involved in industry which can take advantage of these grants. 31~5

March 29, 1973 Tape 893 1B-2 What is the sense of lots of money from OREE, capital grants trom ~REE nnd loans from nRF.E, Mr. Speaker, it we in this province do not have enough money to operate the so.-called infrastructure at a good level. For example schools. Every dollar of capital grants from OREE for the development of schools, the building of schools, means we have to find more money in this province to run these schools at an accentable level, That is why I say, Mr. Speaker, it is no good for us to rely solely on Canada •.

Not only is it morally wrong and a sort of sluggish and slothful idea in itself to just try and hang on and accent dole from Canada but it will also mean that we in Newfoundland will never rise to the average across Canada. We will merely be tugged along at the end of the rat tail of Canada and the bigger that beast gets, the further we get away from the center. We go generally in the same direction all the time but pulled along woefully far behind the main stream in Canada. 1hat is why I say, ~r. Speaker, that these two ways are parallel.

Although what I have said is really obvious - it is obvious, nothing new or novel about it - it seems to me that we have to state it every now and then to see if we are in fact in this province making best efforts on our own, our Newfoundland Government to develop what we have here as a hunch of Newfoundlanders and also to see if. we are taking best advantage of what the Government of Canada and the Nation of Canada has to offer to us as an integral part of that great union. Obvious, Mr. Speaker, but I believe necessary to state. Otherwise we really do not know where we are going.

As far as our first twenty-three years of union with Canada were concerned,! think we did not do too bad a job at all. I was only involved fn it for the Inst two and a-half years of that twenty-three years and I think n pretty good job was done by the government of that day. HiRtory will judge, Mr. Speaker, BR to whether those years, the years of the SmAllwood Administration were good, bad or indifferent as far as the growth of this province wn~ concerned. I do believe 3107 )

March 29, 1973 Tape 893 myself that not only did ve take advantage of our own efforts of what we had to offer here to ourselves in Newfoundland but IB-3 we also took great advantage of the Government of Canada and what Canada itself had to offer. Now. Sir, I want to look for a moment at what this present administration has done in the year and a quarter that they have formed the r.overnment of this province, over a year and several months since they came into power here, to see what they have done as far as followinR those parallel routes are concerned.

How have they done as far as taking advantage of help from Canada is con­ cerned and as far as moving Newfoundland along as a result of their own efforts and the efforts of our Newfoundland people? How have they done? Let us look at the assistance from Canada first. Mr. Speaker, and see how this government measures up over the past year and a quarter. There are many programmes which this province participates in which are sponsored by the Government of Canada. They apply equally to all provinces on various formulas, various basis are laid down for them and of course these are on-going and continuing programmes.

There is one progrannne, the DREE Programmc,which is an entirely new concept and was an entirely new concept as far as dominion provincial relations are concerned. The stated aim of the OREE Programme when it was set up - the Department of Regional Economic Expansion was set up s0111e three years ago - was to overcome inequalities and disparities and unfair treatment in various parts of Canada, particularly the Atlantic Seaboard,for example,including Newfou,,dland, Quebec and the Maritime Provinces.

That is why it was set up and there was no formula as such whereby it was stated that Newfoundland is entitled to a certain amount per capita or Quebec is entitled to a certain amount per capita or anything like that. It was supposed to be based on the plans produced by the Provincial Government, the arguments produced by the Provincial r.overnrnent to show the diRparities and how far they had to go, t~P-nH as to how the rl1Rpar1t1es coulrl be v,otten 3108

March 29, 1973 Tape 893 IB-4 rid of, how plans for bringing a province,whether it be Newfoundland or Nova Scotia,further ahead economically and by way of putting in public services. That is what it is based on. It is not based on any rigid formula, Mr. Speaker. So, what I would like to do is look for a moment at what this present administration has been able to get our of DREE in the year and a quarter or so that they have been in power. When we had the privilege of forming the administration, we managed within an eighteen month period, call it a two year period, we managed to get two DP.EE Agreements signed.

One was a Special Areas Agreement and one a Highways Agreement.

Well, actually there were two Special Areas Agreements and tw~ Highways Agreements but they were all lumped together so we will call them two agreements, Those two agreements brought into this province a co111111itment not in cash completely because some of the projects were a long time getting under way but they brought into this province a comrnitment from the federal government for more than $130,000,000 in loans and grants for public services such as schools, water and sewer systems, highways construction, upgrading and paving of various highways, industrial parks.

I believe the actual figure fn the two agreements was $132,000,000 in loans and grants. Well, it is for whatever the deadline might be in each of the agreements. The first agreement had certain deadlines, In other words, projects would be started now and it might take them two years to complete or however long it takes to spend the moneY, hut that is not the point. The ooint is that there was supposed to be other agreements as time went on, as well taking other projects into consideration,as I will show, Mr.

Speaker, ever $130,000,000 in grants and loans from Canada cotmtitted to this province in the first n,o agreements. Also, Mr. Speaker, there were a number of studies commissioned by the second agr~ement which were supposed to lead to new money from Ottawa 3109

March 29, 1973, Tape 894, Page 1 apb in the ensuin~ years,over the five year period which the first DREE segment was supposed to last. The whole programme was supposed to last fifteen years in total but there was a five year period first of all to see how that would go. There were supposed to be a number of agreements signed during that period. Now. ~r. Speaker, the idea was as annunciated by myself as minister at the time and by 't-'r.

Marchand who was the minister at the time• The idea was to try to get new DREE agreements aip;ned every year, if at all possible; during the five year period, the initial five year period that DREE was set up to operate in. Mr. ~archand and I made statements both officially and unofficially to that effect. ~r. Speaker, we saw brought into this Rouse the other day an announcement znade by Mr.

Jamieson and the Premier 0 I believe, or the Minister of Industrial Development. an announcement whereby there was an amendment to the second agreement and this province was to get under that amendment $25 million extra,as I understand it, $25 million. An amendment, 't-'r. Speak.er, a year and a-half after the second DREE agreement was signed, all we have presented by this present administration after negotiating with Ottawa is a measly amend~ent to the second agreement with $25 million added to this province. Nobody would say that $25 million is not a considerable sum of money but realtively apeaki ng, t•r.

Speaker, compared to the nverar,e which we were able to P,et from nREE in the first two years of the operation of that department, it is a small amount of money. We were able to p,et COl!llllitments frora DREE of up to an avera1.e of $65 million per year, over the first two years, the first two agreements.

This administration has been able to ~et.after a year and a-half, more than a year and a- half since the last agreement was si~ned, goin~ on for a year and three-~uarters now since the second agreement was sirned, this administration i~ able to come in here with an amendment to the second ar,reement and that is all. The third ap:recment which ~ms supposed to have been sip.ned or the 3110

~arch 29, 1973, Tape 894, Page 2 ,-- apb iden wnA thnt it Rhould hnve been sir,ned about a year or so after the second n~r~e,,,ent. In other words,1ast August, Hr. Speaker, last Au~ust, Aupuet of 1972, the third agreement,which should have been si~ned then, there is no sign of at all. It is somewhere in the misty fogbound future to listen to the Minister of Industrial Development when he arswered my question in the House the other day. It may come up, who knows when it will come up, it may be a matter of months yet before that third agreement is signed.

There may be another amendment to the highway's agreement which will probably brinr in, I do not know, I do not try to get Mr. Jamieson to give away any confidences or anything nor any member of his staff, I do not even ask Hr. Jamieson about it,but I would imagine that a highway's ap,reement would only bring in another $10 million at most.

I would be very surprised if there is $10 million extra money in the new highway's amendment, the second highway's agreecent, which would mean that this government has been able to get out of Ottawa,nearly two years after the second agreement was signed, about $35 million, say just over half of what we were able to get from Ottawa in each of the first two agreements which we signed with them. This, Mr. Speaker, is an indication of the planning that this administration said it was going to do, an indication of how effective restructurin~ is,for example.

I had my own misrivinrs when it was announced that the Department of Community and Social Development which heaven knows was in need of some kind of re.structuring, because it had grown up like "Topsy '' but when I heard that right in the middle of crucial negotiations with Ottawa,presumahly, that department was wiped out of existence and the negotiations with the DREE programme was sort of left han~inP. up in the air. I said to myself then that this government is Roin~ to fail mlRerab]y, Mr.

Speaker, 1n takfnr Rd~~unte advanta~e of thRt mnAAive and vaRt rroP,rall'llle which should be eo h~lpful to this province, th~ DRF.F. proP,rRmme. Thia is the result of th~ir plRnnin~ 3111

:. ~arch 29 1 1973 1 Tape 894, Page 3 -- apb and their restructuring to date. An ay,reement delayed by nearly a year in gettin~ sip,ned and then not even a new ar,reement, merely an amendment and for only half the averar.e which we were able tor.et under the first two DREE arreements, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, th('. money is available. I know the money from DREE is available. If for no other reason, the presence of Quebec in this Union of Canada would ensure that.

The efforts which have been made in the past, not only by the Liberal Government but by Progressive Concervative Government as well. to accommodate Quebec within the federal union,usually guarantees to provinces like Newfoundland that they are going to get a fairly good slice of federal money because the federal government cannot just lash it into Quebec and neglect other have-not provinces. The money is available, Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt about that whatsoever. If we were able to get from a government and a minister, Mr.

Marchand, from Quebec, if we were able to get an average of $65 million from DREE committed in the first two agreements, then this y,overnment should be able to get from Mr. Jamieson, who is own native Newfoundlander, heading up DREE, they should at least be able to get an equal amount of money, ¥r. Speaker, in the DREE agreement and they should at least be able to negotiate an agreement quickly and get money into this province. They have not done that, Sir, and I in no way blame ?•r.

Jamieson,because I know from unofficial and informal talks I have had with him that he is anxious and eager to help out his own native province as far as DREE is concerned, the Department of Regional Economic Expansion. It is not his fault,but the initiative in planning for the DREE prograJTD11e has to come from the provincial government. How much did we hear about planning, Mr. Speaker, in the past two or three years from the memhers of this administration? How much did we he~r about planninr.? "The r.overnment of Newfoundland do no pl.anninr" they used to say, No planning? No, ~r.

Sr,eaker, no planninp,, just enou~h planning to r,et more ~oney out of Ottawa in th(' DREF. progranme alone than any 3112

.,. March 29, 1973, Tape 894, Page 4 -- ~pb other province in Canada was able to get per capita and absolutely, with the exception of P.E.I. which was under the original FRED programme. More money out of DREE in absolute terms for infrastructure and public services, more money out of nPEE per capita, per head of this population and absolutely,with the exception of P.E.I. than any other province in Canada, that is what we were able to ~et. That was the lack of planninR, fAr.

Speaker, This crowd with their emphasis and stress on planninR, restructuring, subcorrmittees and task forces and thirty-six or th:1.rty-seven thousand dollar a year special assistants is able to come up with a measly half of what we were able to get under the original DREE agreement and then a year later than it should have been received in any event. When the money is available and we are there in Ottawa with a minister who is anxious and eap,er, · I would almost say if I did not know Mr. Jamieson was an extremely responsible politician.

I would say that he was anxious and ea~er to lash it out to Newfoundland with both hands. He is not 1 of course. He has to put out money to this province on the basis of plans submitted by this government and by this province. He cannot impose his will on the province and say: "Why does not the province do this or why does not the province do that?" because, constitutionally, ?-fr. Speaker, they do not have any rights or responsibilities in those areas. All they can do is review the plans which have been submitted to them by St.

John's, by the province,here in Newfoundland,and look at it and say whether this seems to be sensible or not, whether this seems to be viable or not, whether there seems to be any great need for this sort of thing or not - and they Rive their approval or their veto as the case might be. The initiative has to come from this province and we have seen what has been the result of the provincial initiative, Mr. Speaker, a trifling amount of money comparatively speak:lnp, a lot of money to your ave.rar.e person, $25 million, a lot of money to any person hut a 3113

March 29, 1973, Tape 894, Page 5 -- apb trifling amount compared to what thts ~overnment could have ~otten if they had gone ahout it in the ri~ht w~y, if they had put the stress on really tryinp. to take advantage of the mo~ey and the pror,ramme which Ottawa is willini to offer to this province. !,N HON ~-MEMBER:_ Which money? Which pror,rnmmes? 'MR. W.N_.RO~_:_ Now, Mr. Speaker, the honourable member who just chimed in, the member for Grand Falls, came out, Mr. Speaker, in December and said that he was hoping to see a new agreement siRned ••• 'MR. SENIOR: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a question? MR.

W.N.ROWE: Sure. 'MR. SENIOR: Which money and which programmes are being referred to? MR. ~.N.ROWE~ I am referring, Mr. Speaker, I went to some length I thought to try to talk about the special areas agreement and the hiyhway's agreement. That is what I am talkin~ about. AN HON. MF.~F.R: -------- --·- -· Vague irencralities are what you are talkin~ about. ~ • _ _s_ENIO_R__:_ Right. ~- W.N.F.OJ~_;_ Vague generalities? I am talking,Mr. Speaker, 3114

March 29, 1973 t'ape No. 895 NM - 1 MR. WM. ROWE: about money which is available from DREE and I know whereof I speak. HR. SENIO._!: Qualify your statements. HR. WM. ROWE: For what reasons? MR. SENIOR: Because the public want to know what you are talking about. MR.ROWE,_! will tell the public what I am talking about, Mr. Speaker, what I have been talking about for the last half hour, that there are vast sums of money available in the Department of Regional and Economic Expansion for special areas progr8fflllles and for highways agreements in this province, that is what I am talking about.

The honourable member who could not even hang onto a Cabinet seat, Mr. Speaker, should be very lothe to aet up in this House and try to pretend he knows anything about it. Nnw, Mr. Speaker, I IIIWlt give him credit. He did come out in November or December of last year and say that he hoped to see a new agreement signed with Ottawa in January, He hoped to see a new agreement signed with Ottawa in January, January past. Now January went passed, February went passed and March went almost passed and we saw not a new agreement but an amendment to the sec.ond agreement.

The honourable member for Grand Falls at the same time aaid,when he was ignominiously taken by the scruff of the neck and the slack of the pants and"hovc"out, he said, Mr.

Speaker, that the only reason he can figure out for why he was thrown out is that the attitude that he had taken, namely that thia province should be (and I am paraphrasing; undoubtedly when he speaks in this debate he might have something to say about it himself) that he himself personally was very eager and wanted to get money out of the DREE programme but he was being stinied by officials, I think, and officialdom and bureaucrat• and what not,and I can believe him and I can sympathize with him completely, Mr. Speaker, I can sympathize with him. 3115

March 29, 1973 ;rape No. 895 NM - 2 KR. WM. ROWE: I know what a problem it is, not only in the provincial government but in the Canadian Government, trying to come to grips with the bureaucrat  and officials who are, to say the least, foot draggers when it comes to aggressive action and trying to get money committed for this province or for any other province. I sympathize with him.

What I could not understand was why the Premier would take a man who was obviously 7 if he had that attitude, such a valuable part of the administration, this is what I could not understand,and relieve him of his position in the Cabinet, The last thing any Premier should be doing is tossing out fellows who are willing to take on, Mr.

Speaker, officialdom and really get cracking at what the real action is after all, getting the money committed to the province, pushing,in some cases even overriding the bureaucratie attitude in order to get committments from the Government of Canada which will be to the benefit of this province. That is why I could not m1derstand 1 Mr. Speaker, the Premier's attitude when he threw out this honourable member, because I think he had the right attitude.

He was doing what was necessary and I think he was very concerned that this province was going to lose its place in getting money out of DREE and for some reason or other he found himself out in the cold, which vas a shame. I was sorry to see it because unofficially I talked to other people - you meet an official of the department in the elevator for example, you say, "How are things going?" They say, "Good," "How is your minister?" I would say, "Good he is really getting after the job, he is trying to do the job." That was the attitude of the department, Mr. Speaker.

They knew they had an aggressive man and a man who vas eager and anxious to try to do the best for this province and what do we find, a man like that who is a good man thrown out and the DR~E programme I would say, suffered needlessly as a result and the result has been 3116

March 29, 1973 ~ape No. 895 NM - 3 een, vast millions of dollars available to this province and we get one half of what we have been averaging over the past two or three years from DREE. MR. CROSBIE: Twaddle. MR. WM. ROWE: Another policy statement from the Minister of Finance, Mr. Speaker - twaddle. So, Mr.

Speaker, I can only say that thia prime source of revenue to this province has been sorely neglected and I do hope for the sake of this province that this present Progressive Conservative Administration does pull up its socks in that regard and go after the Government of Canada with well thought out plans and ideas and try to get more money into this province, because God knows, Mr. Speaker, we are entitled to it. We are entitled to more money. We are entitled to a greater share of the vast wealth of the Canadian Nation.

We are entitled to that, merely and purely and solely by reason of being a member of that union and no other reason. We are entitled to a better hare and a fair share. I am sure that the honourable Mr. Jamieson in Ottawa will see to it that we are not neglected in that regard; as a matter of fact the absolute reverse of that would be true. He would see to it that we are looked after in that regard. Although, Mr.

Speaker, you have to admit that both his patience and the patience of every other minister in the Government of Canada ~u•t be sorely strained on occasion when they hear a report that the Minister of Finance here, supposedly a responsible person, or the Minister of Recreation and Rehabilitation I believe is also in on the act, and the Minister of Education and one or two other ministers, standing up in this House and lashing out at the Government of Canada for some piece of pettiness or other, Mr. Speaker, lashing out at them. The Minister of Finance does not lose sight of an oppo_rtunity

March 29, 1973 Tape No. 895 NM - 4 to lash out at them, not that he should be down on his knees grovelling to the Government of Canada, he should not be doing that. He should not even be begging, asking for handouts or anything else. The Government of Newfoundland and the Government of Canada should meet each other face to face and eye to eye, Mr. Speaker.

But how does he expect the co-operation that he promised prior to the last election,how does he expect the co­ operation from the Government of Canada when every opportunity and his colleagues at every opportunity lash out at them and give them the worst possible name that they can in the eyes of this province and in the eyes of Canada? Mr. Speaker, the whole way that this administration has handled their negotiations with Ottawa, their talks with Ottawa, their efforts to get more assistance from Ottawa,has been disastrous. as far as I am concerned, we have seen the result of it. MR.

CROSBIE: What about the $24 million. HR. WM. ROWE: $24 million, yes,Mr. Speaker - AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. HR. WM. ROWE: Well who carea.(John) has got special rules, did you not know that? Everyone else adheres to the rules, Mr. Speaker, he has special rules. He speaks from outside. MR. MORGAN: Do not use names now. MR. WM. ROWE: Oh listen to the great expert on the rules over there now. The Chancellor from McGill, Mr. Speaker, will give us a dissertation on parliamentary procedure. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. It has already been stated to the Rouse that the order of debate would tend to ~~nerate cotmnent.

I would ask honourable gentlemen to speak only when they have the floor. MR. WM. ROWE: In any event, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance, he says, ''What aboilt the $24 million?" The day before this manna fell from heaven,he was up here saying. "Blame .John Turner, Mr. 3118

March 29, 1973 -;-ape No. 895 NM - 5 Speaker, hlAme him for Newfoundland'• difficultie•." The next day $24 million drops into hi• lap like manna from h~aven, aved hi• •kin this year, Mr. Speaker. It may not next year. AN HON, MEMBER: Is that a fact? MR. WM. ROWE: It is a promise, saved his neck, saved his skin, Mr. Speaker, otherwise he would have lashed - he would have put on the taxes and the people of Newfoundland are already taxed enough. But he was aved this year. The very aan who he vilified the day before,drops $24 million into his lap. He had no more idea about it, Mr.

Speaker, no more idea, can take no more credit for it, was no more involved in it than a two year old child. It came directly from Ottawa and thi• administration were more surprised than anybody else. Mr. Speaker, I must say that there has not been a motion of no-confidence 1110ved in this House since this administration came to power, there has not been. We did not last year because it is senseless to be moving any votes of no-confidence in the first yenr of a govemment's tenure of office. It makes no point at all. Let us see what they can do.

Give them a track record, see how they measure up against previous governments and other govemments of Canada, If ever there was a reason, Mr. Speaker, now after a year and a quarter in office, if ever there was a reason for this House to vote no-confidence in this administration, their handling of the DREE programme and the 1110niea available under the DREE programme, Mr, Speaker, is that reason. They are shamefully neglecting.instead of shamefully taking advantage they are shamefully neglecting that prime source of revenue. I 3119

March 29, 1973 Tape no. 896 Page 1 - MRW If ever there were a reason for no-confidence, it is that. It is so self-evident, Mr. Speaker, everybody can see, everybody can compare. There is no need to even stimulate or provoke a debate on it because it is self-evident, it is manifested by the results which they had in their negotiations with Ottawa. There is no intention on my part to move any motions of no-confidence on those grounds, although there is adequate reason to do so. It is so self-evident it is not even necessary. Now, Kr.

Speaker, turning from the shambles of a job which this administration have done in trying to get money out of Ottawa which was one of the avenues, I said, that this government should take, one of the routes it should take in trying to build up this province, turning from that shambles and that neglect, that incompetence, Mr.

Speaker, I am going to have a look now at the last year and one-quarter and see how this government have done as far as its own sphere of jurisdiction is concerned, as far as matters which are purely and simply under their own power and control and jurisdiction, to see how they have done in trying to move this province ahead, to try and get development going,to try to get , , ua to surge ahead as I have said, economically. Again, Mr.

Speaker, as I hope to show and as other honourable members in this House have already shown and will show, again with one exception which we talked about the last day, a couple of days ago on the new refinery I with one exception (we will talk about that again later) this government have fallen down again, Mr. Speaker, on the job of trying to move this province ahead, either economically, industrially, producing jobs or supplying much needed public services to our people and thereby bettering the standard and quality of life of our people. I will give some examples of what I mean by that but first, Mr.

Speaker, let us ask one simple question: Why have this government fallen down so badly nn that job of trying to push Newfoundland ahead? Why? I think there is no person in Newfoundland, no voter in Newfoundland, no member of the media and certainly no member of this House who does not le.now the onawer to this queation. ~120

March 29, 1973 Tape no. 896 Page 2 Ever since they got into power, Mr. Speaker, in January, a year and one-quarter ago, this administration and the head of this adainistration, the Premier,have shown absolutely no leadership to this province. The Premier himself has shown no leadership to his cabinet. The cabinet itself has shown no leadership -norsolidarity norpulling together as the great team they were supposed to be, has shown none of that , Mr. Speaker, to the people of this province. The record of leadership, Mr.

Speaker, as has been pointed out by some pretty good editorials o~ comments in the media over the past days and months; the record of leadership in this province by the Premier himself is abysmal. There is no leadership. There is no leadership shown by that honourable gentleman. As a result his cabinet is in complete disarray. There are conflicting statements left, right and centre. There is no feeling to the Newfoundland people that they are pulling together, a disjointed array, Mr. Speaker. This cabinet is almost like the analogy the former Premier used to use, Premier Smallwood.

He used to say that one danger you have to be on guard against when you are in a cabinet is that each cabinet minister does not turn into a petty duke, responsible only for his own little bailiwick and not concerned about the broad general problems facing the province. That is what this government, Mr.

Speaker, have given the impression of being in the past year and one-half - a disjointed array of petty dukes who gather together every now and then to probably harrass the king or to try and root something out of the king but concerned merely or at least this is the impression, concerned generally speaking with their own little .bailiwicks with no broad principles of policy being enunciated by the government. There seems to be a positive 1oy, Mr. Speaker, in this government and the ministers of it showing how independent they are from one another. This is the impression you p,et from listening to • them.

It ia not like the bad old days when there was one-man rule,they say. We are all independent men. We are all doing our own thing. The concept of cabinet government, Kr. Speaker, has escaped the Premier and his colleagues. I remember the Premier saying one time, 3121

March 29 , 1973 Tape no. 896 Page J my hon. friend from Bell Island will remember this - a question was asked: "What contracts do the government have with ·G~orge McLean?''The Premier of the Province, supposedly a sensible and intelligent man, comes out and says, "The government have no contracts with Mr, McLean." Then he went a little bit further and said, "However, the Department of Highways has . a contract wit.h him. The Department of Fisheries has a contract with him. This department has a contract with him." What, Mr.

Speaker, a complete show of lack of understanding of what the cabinet system of government is all about as if one department is one little bailiwick here and another department is a duke here and here is the prince of this and here is that. What nonsence, Mr. Speaker: Departments of government are nothing more nor less than convenient divisions for more or less bureaucratic purposes of the general government control and power and jurisdiction. Every minister of the government, Mr. Speaker, is as politically responsible for all other acts of his colleagues as those ministers themselves. What is simpler than that?

Cabinet s~lidarity 9 that is what the whole system of government which ve are living under is based on, Mr. Speaker, gr011n up over a period of 200 or 300 years. The Premier does not even know that,apparently. Positive joy, Sir, in saying,well I do not know the answer to that. A broad question, important 7 overriding question is raised by one of my colleagues in the House and the Premier has not even heard about it, Half the time the minister, the man responsible, has not even heard about it. Nobody seems to be getting tabs on anybody else. Nobody seems to be providing any guidance.

No one's hand is on the tiller,as the "Evening Telegram" said there some days ago. The Premier does not seem to be aware of the big problems going on in the province or the possible solutions to them. A question is asked and he will say, "Well, let me' see now, my 111:lnis ter as he says, my colleague will deal with that." He does not seem to be aware of it. He is satisfied not to provide any leadership or having any 3122

March 29, 1978 Tape no. 896 Page 4 overall control which a premier in a government should pTovide. Everyone ' is going around higgledy-piggledy, Mr, Speaker. That is one of the reasons why this government have fallen down on the job of trying to pull this province up by its own efforts. Other reasons, Hr. Speaker: The number of conflicting statements, erroneous statements made by ministers and contradicted by the Premier and contradicted by another minister since this government came into power a short, scant year and one-quarter ago, the number, Hr. Speaker, boggles the mind.

I remember, Sir, there about towards the end of last year, the Come-by-Chance refinery was then in a little bit of trouble, more money was needed by the project. The Premier comes out one days and says, ''Kr. Shaheen has found all the money for the project for the first refinery. He has found all the extra overruns needed." The very next day or maybe it waa the day before his Minister of Finance was on the air saying, "No, he has not found the money, He has not found the money." It is a completely diametrically opposed statement by two ministers of the government who obviously, Hr.

Speaker, had not even been in communication with each other on the point. We will come to one or two other examples, They had not even been in c0111111unication with each other on the point. What kind of confidence is given to the Newfoundland people, Mr. Speaker,\·lth conflictin?, statements of that kind? As my honourable colleaiues says, late last summer the Minister of Finance, an admirable gentleman, as I have said repeatedly in this House, comes out and says, "Ames and Company are doing a good job in this province as the fiscal agents of the province.

They are doing a good job." I think he intimated or indicated at the time that there was no intention of flinging them out, getting rid of them, He might have maintained that up to the very day, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure. He can mention that himself, when he speaks, KR. CROSBIE: (Inaudible). HR. W. N. ROWE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, 3123

March 29, 1973 Tape no. 896 Page 5 MR. CROSBIE: I have heard the honourable gentleman say that about twa or three ti111es. MR. W. N. ROWE: I &111 going to. aay it a few more times. too• Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: Just. a min,ute now~ t would. l.ilte the honourable gentleman to be good enough to produce the proof of that statement. I never said at any time whether 'we were continuing with Ames or not. I did say that they were doing a good job and they did. The rest of your statement is ttot correct. MR. W. N. ROWE: At the time, Hr.

Speaker, 1 &111 relying on a pl'ess release I made at the time, which I hope was based on so111ethin2. I usually try to base it on something. 1 will try to dig it up 312 -1

March 29, 1973 Tape 897(Morning) for the hon. minister. I will dig it up, Mr. Speaker, and try to ee what 1 based it on but my firm impression and the impression of my colleagues here and of other people I have talked to in the media, 1 remember the very day when Burns Brother and Denton were announced. 1 believe CJON were the first to pick it up, They broke the news. How shocked.

I happened to be up there at the time doing some sort of a programme, how shocked one or two of the newsmen were because as they said to me, "Sir, the Minister of Finance(and they called him by name) was saying the other day that Ames Brothers were good, great fellows." Well, the impression,unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, given was one of again opposite statements made by two ministers, the Premier and the Minister of Finance. I would have accepted the Premier - I mean .Ames and Company always took me as being sensible.

The Minister of Finance's statement was probably the correct one yet he was overruled publicly or apparently publicly and Burns Brother and Denton,for obvious reasons, we have already canvassed that question in this House, Burns Brothers and Denton were put in as agents in this province. Early last fall, Mr. Speaker, again the Premier announced the government was taking over the Marystown shipyard although it was already a crown corporation. Presumably what he meant was that the Israeli company was not going to be the operators any longer and that a new operator was going to take over.

The Premier announced that, Mr. Speaker, the take over of the Marystown shipyard by the government. The Minister of Economic Development at the time, the member for Fortune Ray,when asked about it would not confirm it even. He was the Minister of Economic: Development and aa far as I know, Mr. Speaker, to this day the Marystown shipyard is still being run by this Israeli company, six or seven months later. The minister went to Israel and found out what a great group of people they were, 312.5 JM - 1

March 29, 1973 · Tape 897(Morning) As a matter of fact "Time Magazine" which is not the gospel or authotity on these matters, had a picture - MR. EARLE: I would like to ask the hon. member if he sees any fault in an operation which has made progress since that day and is now operating at full capacity and employing a major number of men? This is the result of the negotiations with the Israelis. MR. ROWE(W.N.): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted.

The hon. minister seems to forget perhaps because he cannot keep track of what government , he is in on various days,he is back and forth so often, he seems to forget that it was the previous Liberal Smallwood Administration which put this Israeli group in there for just that purpose, Mr. Speaker. MR. EARLE: And they did not accomplish it, that is why - MR. ROWE(W.N.): Well, who is running it now? MR. EARLE: The government and it is doing well. MR. ROWE(W.N.): And who is down - A Mr. Rennie who was put in there by the - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. ROWE(W.N.): Oh, he is working for you now. MR.

EARLE: And three hundred odd men. MR. ROWE(W.N.): When was the Israeli company put out of it? JM - 2 MR. CROSBIE: (Inaudible). They are not out of it yet, as far as we know MR. ROWE(W.N.): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that is right. Mr. Rennie used to be with the fellow who built the Queen Elizabeth 11 who was the backbone and guts of the Israeli operation down in Marystown and is still there,as far as I know,working for us. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. ROWE(W.N.): He is a good man and we put him in there, Mr. Speaker, and we knew that this kind of result would come from it.

But the point I am trying to make is that the Premier would make a s .tatement, Mr. Speaker, and the hon. Minister of Economic Development at the 3126

March 29, 1973 Tape 897(Morning) time when aAked will not ~v~n confirm it and probably WAS not even aware ot what wae going on. What I am trying to aay, Sir, ie that there ie a disjointed public attitude portrayed by this administration. MR. EARLE: (Inaudible). MR. ROWE(W.N.): They did not. MR. EARLE: The government provided all of this, MR. ROWE(W.N.): Well, okay, Mr. Rennie seems to be a good fellow but he was the operator of it for the Israelis as he is for the government. He ia a good fellow. He is the heart and soul of the operation down there,I understand. He is a good man. I understand he is.

MR, SPEAKER: Order please! While hon. members may agree with one another to carry on a banter or answer questions, one to ask the other to answer questiona,hon. members are only permitted to debate in this House when having the floor and until the member for White Bay South yields the floor no other member is to be permitted to ask him questions nor is he, technically speaking, to answer them. MR. ROWF(W.N.): Okay, Mr. Speaker, great. Then we had the same thing again.

I remember there back in last year again the biggest kind of a squabble developed ostensibly between the Government in Ottawa as to who should be appointed first, the president or the Board of Directors of the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation, A big squabble developed between this government and the Government of Canada but it turns out from the announcement made by Mr. Jamieson's office that apparently the whole reason for the difficulty,as far as I can make out,was .that the hon.

Minister of Economic Development of that day had said one thing and the Premier's office had said somethinp, else and this had led the Government of Canada astray and led everybody down the r,arden path. We saw the unseemly spectacle of about two or three weeke goinv. by with no effort bein~ made to 1,et that Newfoundland Development 3127 JM - 3

March 29, 1973 , Tape 897(Morning) Corporation ~oin~, not r,oin~ to this moment,functionally,as far as I know. Mr. Speaker, we saw no effort, all we saw was an unseemly squabble as to whom should be appointed first, a president or a Board of Directors. Who comes first, the chicken or the egg? This is what they were preoccupied with during those halcyon days, Mr. Speaker, another example - MR. EARLE: To a point of order. The statements which the hon. gentleman is making at present are completely false and I shall refute them. MR. ROWE(W.N.): Go ahead and refute them, Mr. Speaker. I do not care.

He can refute them till the cows come home but I am giving my impression of what transpired during those days and I am going by what came out of - Mr. Jamieson, I believe, made a statement, my colleagues might be able to remember it as well, made a statement that he had understood from the Premier's office that such and such was the case which was diametrically opposed to the Minister of Economic Development's statement,and this public squabble going on, Mr. Speaker, a public squabble over a development corporation which should have been one of the saviours of the economy of the province here.

That is what I am talking about and how this government ever expects to have any confidence from the Newfoundland public in these matters. JM - 4 Last year again, Mr. Speaker, when the bad scandal came to the fore the hon. the president now hon, Minister of Provincial Affairs apparently was involved in some way there, I am not accusing him of anything because I do not think he probably did anything) He was involved with Babb Construction Company with regard to the building of a home for the aged.

The next thing we know the Premier comes bouncing back from one of his trips down South and cut the legs completely from under the hon. minister on that occasion and said 3128

March 29, 1973 . Tape 897(Morning) JM - 5 that he knew nothing about it and he was personally going to investigate it. I mean is that how the events transpired? Cut the legs put from under one of his own colleagues, Mr. Speaker, right out from under him and his colleague then is made to look like something less than well, at least something less than intelligent in the whole effort, whatever else might be read into it. The same thing, Mr. Speaker, the same thing again when the hon.

Minister of Justice was approached following the RCMP raid on homes and businesses last December, the Minister of Justice who first of all said that he knew nothing about it and then second of all said that he knew all about it. The Minister of Justice also had his legs cut out from under him when the Premier bounches back again from one of his myriad journeys out of this province and comes in as the saviour once more, Mr.

Speaker, what he is going to do is talk to the RCMP or try to negotiate certain documents back from the court into some of the firms who were suffering because the documents had been taken from them. He made his Minister of Justice, Mr.

Speaker, look like a man who had no idea of what he was doing, pulled the rug right out from under him, the man who apparently had been, if he had not directed these raids had at least been consulted on them as Minister of Justice and who was,I suppose according to his lights and his conscience, was doing a good thing,suddenly had the rug pullej out from under him once more by the Premier of this province who shoved, elbo~ed him to one side and says, "I am taking over here now and I"(the )" saviour of mankind am going to make sure that nobody suffers here, and here are your documents." Parsons and Landrigan, I think, the brokerage firm was involved in that particular case and obviously was suffering some inconvenience because of these documents having been taken from them and the Premier steps in, elbows the Pfinister

March 29, 1973 Tape 897(Morning) of Justice out of the way and passes over the documents - apparently got the documents released and the court case in any event stopped at that point. Above, Mr.

Speaker, are only some of the examples, only some of the hundreds of examples I suppose by this time, certainly scores of examples,that anybody in this House had paid any attention at all to what has gone on in the province in the past year and a quarter, hundreds of examples of this lack of solidarity by members of this present administration, conflicting statements between ministers and between a minister and the Premier, the Premier pulling the rug out from under and cutting the legs out from under I his ministers. All of these things, Mr.

Speaker, which have been going on and which have undermined,in a terrible fashion have undemined any possible, any remaining remanent of 31 " .. , .., V JM - 6

March 29, 1973 Tape 898 (morning) PK - 1 confidence which the people of Newfoundland still might have in th{• adminiAtration. Mr. Speaker, the Premier himAelf has been guilty of some very strange doin~s in the paet several months at least. One example which was incredible and greeted by everybody as an incredible situation was when he came out and blasted,as my colleagues have already mentioned, the "Evening Telegram'' for their treatment of him and his poor old colleagues.

There treatment of himself, the criticism that he had been getting from them.from independent writers in the paper and from the columnists and the newsmen and from the editorials, blasted, lambasted the "Telegram" in a most of unheard of fashion. I never heard tell of it before. A complete over reaction, Mr. Speaker, to what had in fact gone on. Then a couple of days later or a week or two later, he goes on CJON television, I think "Issues and Answers" or one of them and when being asked by a rep?rter says: Yes, if he had his time back he would not have done that. Mr.

Speaker, he would not have done if he had his time back. Fe was sorry for it and that he wish that he had not said it,but it was one of his bad days. The Premier had one of his bad days. Who has ever heard the like, Mr. Speaker, from a Premier of this province? Imagine a Premier not sitting down and trying to figure out in a logical, thoughtful fashion what if any action he should take regarding this kind of a situation. Instead he over-reacts, spur of the moment, spontaneously calls a press conference and larnbasts one of the leading members of the media in this province. One of his bad days. Mr.

Speaker, I must say we appreciate very much especially on this side of the House we do appreciate the Premier telling us that he is subjected to bad days. We wish he harl told us before he became Premier. We wish he had told the people of Newfoundland that be had his bad days. It is a little like getting aboard a plane. Hr. Speaker, and the pjlot takes you off the iround, you are up about 4,000 feet and the pilot says, 'W e 11,by the way. I have these bad days 3131-

March 29 • 1973 Tape 898 (morning) PK - 2 you know, every now and then I sort of collapse over the controls." We appreciate the pilot tellinp: us, '-1r. Speaker, so that you can keep an eye on him while you are a-half a mile up in the air, but you do wish that he told you before you ever got in the plane at all,do you not? You do wish he had done that as you would not be up there sweating bug juice, wondering what is going to come out of him next or what is going to happen next. The same situation with the Premier.

Why did he not tell us before that he was subject to these bad days, these spur of the moment , spontaneous attacka on people? The same kind of thing on the Leader of the Opposition the other day,"I read the press release. A clear press release concerning the Gros l-l'orne Park, Mr.

Speaker." The Premier obviously had not even read it, he probably got fired up hearing it on the radio and comes into the House and makes another fool of himself, lambasted the Leader of the Opposition, After hearing the news that night;,1hen they -read the two statements, the Premier's statement and the Leader of the Opposition's statement, there was no doubt in anybody's mind as to who had fooled it up. The Premier, Mr. Speaker, another one of his bad days. AN H1N. MEM'BFF: Inaudible. -- - MR. ROWF.. W.N. Maybe we will get to that too. How long am I speaking now, ~tr. Speaker? Do you have any idea? MR.

SPF.AKER: One hour. MR. ROWE, W.N. Twenty minutes renaining, I better forge ahead, Mr. Speaker. I better ~et going. hiyway, Mr. Speaker, I must say that the Premier's credibility on that score - AN HON. ~F.!-1BF.R, Inaudible. MR. _ROWF., W. N. Oh, no, Mr. Speaker, if I can keep the honourable Minister of Finance in his seat. He must be doing something, nr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIF.: Inaudible.

March 29, 1973 Tape 898 (morning) PK - 3 MR. ROWE, W.N. Mr. Speaker, I hope you are deducting all these interruptions from my time hecauAe I have a few more thinRS to aay and I may not be able to complete it in the ninety minutes. Mr. Speaker, other examples of this government which have kept them fro~applying themselves to what they should have been doing,developing this province, other examples of a do-nothing government. All of these examples in my estimation, Mr. Speaker, would warrant a no-confidence 1110tion. They would warrant it.

But again,as I have eaid,they are eo self-evident that there ie no real need to try and stimulate debate on them, But take an example from the Department of Justice. I am glad to see the minister is here to hear what I have to say. Mr. Speaker, as far ae I can see the administration of justice in the past year or so, as I said in a public release outside of this House and I 1,rill say again inside of the Rouse,as far as I can see, Mr.

Speaker, the administration of justice in this province has consisted of strong-arm and sneeky methods on the one hand and no action whatsoever on the other hand, as far as I can see, I will give some examples to back it up.

Pe all remember the spectacle, I do not blame the minister for thie,he was vacationing in P.E.I. at the time, It was last SUl!llller,I believe, we all remember the spectacle,for the first time in our history, if I remember correctly,a bunch of picketing mothers who were sick and tired of eating dust from their hiRhway, sick and tired of it, a bunch of picketing mothers were set upon by the police who were following the instructions of tt,e Department of Justice,set upon by the police, piled aboard cars,brought tens or scores of miles over the road to Gander, with their children you know tagging behind at home, left home there, brought to Gander, charged,Mr.

Speaker, at tremendous inconvenience to themselves, taken back again, as far as I can make out, arid subsequently all charges against them dropped. P.erhaps the minister saw to it that these charges were dropped because he realized the irliocy and the foolishness

March 29, 19 73 Tap~ 898 (morning) PK - 4 of that kind of an action. As far as I can understand unprecedented strong-arm method, Mr. Speaker, when what was needed really was I suppose some understanding and some consultation and talking it over with the women, a political solution in the best sense of the word rather than a legal solution, Mr. Speaker, that kind of a method by the administrators of justice.

But where was the Department of Justice? 'Whare was the Minister of Justice, when under the directions I suppose of the Minister of Finance,our now leading member of the civil service, the chief returning officer or electoral officer t,•hatever he is, called Harvey Cole,went down and ransack the offices of the,illegally ransacked the offices of the previous Premier of this province. This is what I am talking about, strong-ann and sneeky on the one hand and lack of action, Mr. Speaker , on the other. Police raids on the homes and businesses concerning Javelin that were talked about as another strong arm method.

But where was the minister when the Premier,on another one of his bad days,has a reporter or two thrown out of a public part of this building,illegally in my estimation, Mr. Speaker, unless there was adequate notice given to the public at large that from now on this public part of the building was going to be a private part. Throw him out! Where was the Department of Justice or the Minister of Justice in that case, Mr. Speaker? Do nothin~ in that particular case. Do nothing when Harvey Cole ransacks a private office. But do everything, Mr.

Speaker, when a btmch of mothers are picketing or when some witch hunt is needed to be done in respect of the Javelin situation. The O'Dea Royal Commission, the Premier, Mr. Speaker, while crying crocodile tears and rnealy-mouth says"this is the worst day of my life" as he waves the royal commission around here eveeywhere. Calls a-half a dozen press conferences, does this, that and the other thing to make sure the message gets across while he is crying crocodile tears, the saddest day of his life, waves it 3131

March 29, 1973 Tape 898 (morning) PK - 5 around, besmirches a number of reputations in this province, smears the reputation as a result of that royal commission. which remember is not a court of law, Mr. Speaker, it was evidence taken in camera with as I understand very little opportunity for cross-examination or to confront your accusers. AN HON. MEMBF.R: Inaudible. 1-(R. ROWE , W.N. Oh, no, it is not true, Mr. Speaker.

In any event, Sir, the Premier comes out like a bolt out of the blue and what does he say without giving any reason for it or giving any reasons for it or giving any basis for it or anything. any rationality for it? The Royal Trust Company is exonerated by fiat. The Premier comes out; the Royal Trust Company which was involved in the royal commission and got some very harsh worijs from the ro,al commissioner is exonerated, Mr. Speaker. No reason given. No rationale given for it whatsoever. Exonerated. What kind of justice is that, Mr. Speaker?

A half a dozen other men are still going aromid mider a cloud with their reputations besmirched, the Royal Trust Company carries on. So those examples, Mr. Speaker, from the administration 31 "r'' ., .)

~arch 29, 1973, Tape 899, Pagel -- apb of justice,in my estimation ap:ain would merit and warrant a no­ confidence motion in this House against this government,but again it is too self-evident, everybody knows about it, there is no need of really debating it, a stimulating debate on it. ~r. Speaker, these hove been the preoccupations of the government during the past year, this and the idiotic restructurins:t scheme which has done nothinr, but provide an obstacle and a hip: rock, bolder ,in t ·,1e way of progress in this province, nothing, t-'r. Speaker.

The province has been preoccupied with this kind of thina, the provincial government, Sir, nothing has been done,with one exception, as I have mentioned, nothing has been done concerning the development of this province. In the field of mining, }fr. Speaker, is there anything going ahead that was not going ahead?

All we were able to get from the minister the other day during suppl~mentary or interim supply, I do not know which, all we were able to get from the minister was that; "Well some things are carrying on under the old policy but we hav'c! no new policy or no regulations" - something, I do not know, I did not quite understand it. AN HON . ~•Et-'BER: Nearly gave away the province. MR. W.N.ROWE: ------------ Nearly gave away the province, that kind of thing, that kind of policy, ~r. Speaker, the past administration. Nothing going ahead as far as I can understand, nothing in the way of progress.

The forestry; the minister is not here so I should not say too much about it but the forestry industry, what is going on there? We were workin~ towards r,etting some exchanres from Bowaters, hopefully in return for setting up a public corporation and getting money into the companies for access roads and all of that kind of thinr., tryin~ to get control of the forestry under the provincial goverrunent. Is there anythinp goinr. ahead in that direction? Not a worrl heard, ~r. Spea~er.

People in the district, in my district, the Baie Verte Peninsula, dying for a bit of land to put a sawmill on, unless they got it within the last few days. 1hey have been waiting for months now for the minister to 3136

March 29, 1973, Tape 899, Page 2 -- ~pb effect some kind of an exchange on the Bowater's limits as compared with Crown limits, waiting for days, I do not know if it is .•. AN llON._~'Bf.R: '\Jaitinr, for years. MP .• W.N.FOWE: Waiting for years, Mr. Speaker. We used to see to it whenever we could that there -.-ould be exchanges effected. I rer,ember Gid Sacrey and A.T.White down on the Baie Verte Peninsula I am not sure White, but Cid Sacrey had an operation p.oin~ on down there. We were able to effect an exchange. It is all storped now. I do not know if they have been able to do anything since.

The Lower Churchill, ~r. Speaker, nothing goiny. ahead there except the minister getting up and saying; "We are not going to give the Province away any more·'.'. ~o says the minister of 'Finance, ''Not going to do it." What is going on there? No developl'lent there as far as I can understand. By this time, after a year and a-half 0 if there has been no good progress made towards negotiating the Lower Churchill Development, then the minister should think in terms of the 12over111'1ent doinp: it. How much lonr,er are we going to wait, tir. Speaker? Off shore oil is another example.

No action exc,?pt for tht! minister giving pep talks to service groups and tiltinr, at windmills in Ottawa, ~r. Speaker. So far I can see no real action beinr, taken there to see that Newfoundland gets the Maximum advantage, not only in regard of ownership, ~r. Speaker, because that is one of the least important matters. Who r,ets the economic advantage is what counts. Ownership is important of course but who gets the economic advantar,e, job opportunities in constructing and servicing that industry?

This government has been in power for a year plus several months, there are not even regulations yet and the povernmcnt does not foresee nny regulations within the next ye11r or so. Wt' hnv,:, two t'Xllmples in the St11tE"s, Mr. ~re-11lrer, of A]n.skn on the one hanrl with offshore oil ttnd J,ouisinn11 on thr othrr h:md with offshore 011. l\]nsli:n hns the hiphest prr capit11 income 1n the tJnttrd ~tates or one of thl' hiphest per cnnita incomes nnd one of the hiphest rates of. Rrowth. I.ouisiana has one of the, lowest per cnp1 tn incomes nnd one of the lowest rates of growth.

Thev should he on n par, they ~hould he on 3137

~arch 29, 1973, TApe 899, Pap.e 3 -- apb a par, ~r. Speaker, but because I suppose, of the different directions taken by the various govern1T1ents concerned, one is rich and one is poor. What I nm afrald of in this province is that unless some drastic action, less talk, Mr. Speaker, and more action is taken with regard to the offshore rights, some regulations, some assertion of where we stancl, some makin~ sure that servicin~ is done here and construction and things like that, jobs are done here,if people are going to ~o offshore and explore off our Coasts.

That is what should be done, otherwise, we will go the route, the way of Louisiana, ~r. Speaker, instead of the way of Alaska, I am very much afraid. ~r. Speaker, these are some examples of the lack of action I believe on the part of this government and the reasons why there has been a lack of action both as far as pulling 3138

March 29, 1973 Tape 900 itself up by the boot straps are concerned. As far RS trying to get money out of Ottawa is concerned,this government in my estimation haR been ~ dismal failure on both counts• I do not think they have taken advantage of what Canada has to offer. I do not think they have taken advantage or done what should be IB-1 done under their own jurisdiction and their own~phere of control and interest. The only exception, Sir, to this do-nothing attitude we have seen is the second refinery. We have debated that at length in this honourable House.

We have debated it at some length and I do not intend to get involved in that now except to say that we are delighted, very delighted that the government did go ahead with that deal. We are pleased about that, Mr. Speaker. We have made some comparisons between the first and second refinery which I believe to be valid. Other men have other opinions. Reasonable men can differ on these points. I believe that. We have made some comparisons.

What we did not get into, Sir, in any way is the way in which this present administration has let down the people of Newfoundland as far as their publicly stated policy was concerned. They have let them down. We have already mentioned words like hypocrisy and callus cynicism in the House, Mr. Speaker. This government are now pushing ahead with somethin~ which they went out of their way over a period of years to universally condemn and absolutely condemn in this province, Mr. Speaker. TI1ey are now doing what they condemned to a man.

As far as I am concerned, Sir - I mentioned this before and I had strong feelin~s on ft, what should be a party's position in respect of their publicly committed policy to the electorate - as far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, this administration did mislead the public of this province. I do not know if it is parliamentary to say that they deliberately misled . the public of this province. I am not talking about anythinr, that. went on in this House. I am talking about outside when elections and things were on and leading up to elections,but they did mislead 3139

~arch 29. 1973 Tape 900 IB-2 the public of this province. This present administration, Mr. Speaker, who have gained power did gain power largely on the stand that they took with regard to the Shaheen Refinery. They did, Mr. Speaker. I know that. Not so much because they proposed a new policy, not so much, Mr.

Speaker because they said, "This is what we are going to do instead" but because they over a period of two or three years, went out of their way to make it look in the eyes of the Newfoundland people that the previous administration, the Smallwood .Administration had gotten themselves sucked into a lousy deal and was throwing money down the drain, burning the people's dollars, Mr. Speaker, a bunch of idiots, a bunch of morons getting involved in deals with Shaheen and his likes, a crook, a renegade rogue like Shaheen was the way he was painted, Mr. Speaker.

The people of Newfoundland as a result of that lost a lot of confidence in what was going on in the province. They put this crowd in not - I do not believe - not because they thought that this crowd were ~oing to do anything great but they thought that they would get rid of the crowd who had been painted so badly and so poorly by this administration and the members of the party to which this administration belongs. That is how they gained power or substantially how they gained power in this province, Mr.

Speaker, on that stand, on economic development policy and now they have reversed that policy utterly and completely and it is a stah in the back and a misleading of the Newfoundland people. I have had strong feelings about it, They enlisted, Mr. Speaker, media support. The "Evening Telegram" for example has always had a strong, I l,elieve editorial policy againRt deals like the Shaheen deal in Come By Chance. I think they have and they have good reasons for it. They have their own reasons for it. I do not hRppen to agree with their policy but I understand their point of view. This party, Mr.

Speaker, fostered and pushed and took advantage of that kind of an editorial pol:f.cy. 3140

---: J\"arch 29, 1973 Tape 900 IB-3 They enlisted the support rf artir.ulate groups at the univerRity and other articulate groups in this province to use their support to get rid of the previous administration. I am delighted that we are in opposition for a few years, .,...r. Speaker, but I am talkino about the callous misleading of the people of Newfoundland. Then they come back within a year after they are in office, ~r.

Speaker, and can make a complete face about, a como]ete turn around, a complete stah in the back of all those people who supported them on that issue,lltld a substantial number of people did have strong feelings on the Shaheen Company, Mr. Shaheen himself, the Come By Chance Refinery and they put their faith, Mr. Speaker, in thit !!.dministrat1.on. This administration has now shown that they were not to be trusted on their publicly committed policy to these people. Callousness and treachery-, Mr. Spe.Rker, to their supporters and to the voters who voted for them because of that.

The whole situation as far as I am concerned is far more important, this about face, this misleading is far more important and should be debated in this P.ouse, Mr, Speaker, must be debated. That is why, Sir, on these grounds rather than on the other grounds which I mentioned earlier, I will move in this House a motion of no-confidence in this government, a motion of no-confidence, Mr. Speaker, based on the ahout-face, treachery, misleadin~ of the puDlic of this province. Mr. Speaker, the amendment to the 3141

March 29, 1973 Tape No. 901 NM - 1 MR. WM.

ROWE: Address in Reply, moved by myself and seconded by my honourable colleague,the member for Labrador North,that the Address in Reply be amended by adding thereto after the words which Your Honour has addressed to this House," the following words: while this House has welcomed plans to build a new oil refinery at Come By Chance as a continuation of the policy of the Smallwood Administration, thls House records its lack of confidence in the present administration because by this complete reversal of their publicly stated and oft repeated policy against association with Mr.

Shaheen and developments in which he was involved, the present administration have now admitted that by their earlier public statements they had utterly misled the people of Newfowtdland and Labrador and had totally misrepresented to the public what their position would be on such industrial projects and the developers connected with them. That, Mr. Speaker, is the motion of no confidence which I move by way of amendment Now, Mr. Speaker, before - to the Speech from the Throne. AN HON. MEMBER: Is there a copy available? MR. WM. ROWE: I have dozens of copies there. his hand by signifying. He has waved MR.

CROSBIE: He is only waving is he? MR. WM. ROWE: He tipped his hat. Now, Mr. Speaker, before I go into this because I expect to speak at some length on the subject, a motion of no confidence, Mr. Speaker, the mover of a motion of no confidence has unlimited time. MR. ROBERTS: I am not going to cross the House, if he wants it he can come that far and Ret it or the page will take it for him. MR. WM. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, a motion of no confidence, before I get involved - What is going on? MR. ROBF.RTS: We are having a little by-play here now. HR. WM. ROWE: Well why do you not sit down or leave or something 3142

March 29, 1973 Tape· No. 901 NM - 2 MIL WM. ROWE: you know? 1 got no confidence in anyone today, Mr. Speaker. MR. ROBERTS: 1 guess that is what your wife said this morning, MR. WM. ROWE: ~- Speaker, before I do launch out now in this harangue, I would like to remind Your Honour that I do.have tmlimited time, according to the precedents and traditions of this Hou11e ,md Beauchesne,to speak on a motio.n o.f no confidence. MR, SPEAKER: This must be read into the record as well, It is moved by Mr, William N. Rowe, M.H.A. of White Bay South and seconded by Mr. M.

Woodward, M.H.A., Labrador North, that the Address in Reply be amended by adding thereto after the words, "which Your Honour has addressed to thi.s House 1 '' the follcnring words: ''While this Rouse has welco111ed plans to build a new 3143

March 29, 1973 Tape no. 902 Page 1 - MRW oil refinery at Come-by-Chane• as a continuation of the policy of the Smallwood Administration, this House records its lack of confidence in the present administration because by this complete reversal of their publicly stated and oft repeated policy against the association with Mr.

Shaheen and developments in which he was involved, the present administration have now admitted that by their earlier public statements they had utterly misled the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and had totally misrepresented to the public what their position would be on such industrial projects and the developers connected with them." It has b'een moved by the hon. member for White Bay South. He has unlimited time in which to make his points on this matter. MR. CROSBIE: You have ruled already that he has · not a minimum time to speak on his motion. MR. W. N.

ROWE: Well my time is up anyway so he has to rule on it now. MR. SPEAKER: While the precedent may not be one that is particularly welcome to the House but in other words the precedent has been set and the honourable member does have unlimited time. I am sure that the honourable member on this recent matter will not delay the House unnecessarily. MR. W. N. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I have no intention on speaking on this for more than two or three days. _MR. ROBERTS: It has to touch the ground once , HR. W. N. ROWE: That is right. Skip from high point to high point, Mr. Speaker. Two or three days should cover it. Mr.

Speaker, I have read the amendment and Your Honour has read the amendment and I do believe strongly and firmly that this Rovernment have reversed itself utterly. Mr. Speaker, even if we do not agree that the second oil refinery and the first oil refinery should be compared on the same basis, even if we do not agree with that, even if he assume for the sake of argument, which I do not admit, that the first refineryhad the government on the hook for $160 million and the second one only has the government on the hook for $80 million, even if we assume 3144

Ha rch 29 , 19 73 Tape no. 902 Paga 2 that for the sake of argument, which 1 do not adit u 1 say, even then, Mr. Speaker, the government's attitude in totally reveraiDI its policy and ideas, publicly stated and repeated hundreds of tiaea against people like Mr. Shaheen, agaiaat the type of development fouad in Come-by-Chance, against promoters and developers colling in and so-called skimming off the cream in this province, it hu totally reversed itself, Hr. Speaker, totally reversed itself.

There baa bean some attempt made by members opposite, 111.niatera oppoaite to indicate that really in the past they were not against Hr. Shaheen or the oil refinery in Come-by-Chance. It is for that reuoa, Sir, that I feel obligated to do something which the Minister of .Flaaace does not like. He does not like it, Mr. Speaker. He doe8 not like anyone to go back into the last two or three years of what he vould prefer to consider ancient history, best forgotten uybe except by a bunch of archaeologists and grey-haired historians.' Forget about it, Mr. Speaker, he would like for us to do. But, Mr. Speaker, the hon.

Minister of Finance is not the only one. If it were the boa. Minister of Finance,! probably would not say anything becauae 1 thought his whole role and the part he played in the past two or three yean, 1 was filled with admiration for him. I could not help but be filled with admiration,even though I might have disagreed with hi• Thia latter about-face and humiliation of him by his now present, erstwhile temporary colleagues might not be so good. I do not like that ao auch. I do admire the honourable minister.

I do feel constrained, Sir, to go back for tvo or three years and to read into the record of this House and to point out to the media and the people of this province the rank hypocrisy, the deception and dissembling that went on, Mr. Speaker, by members of this present adllin1stration, the falsification of the facts in order to win cheap political pointa, the insincerity and the cant that ve heard from the, leadinR up to various 3145

March 29, 1973 Tape no. 902 Page 3 elections, leading up to the year or two before an election.for purely political purpose to try to discredit: the previous administration and to try and discredit Mr. Shaheen and developers and promoters like him in order to get in power \ 3146

~arch 2q, 1973, Tape 9n3, Pa~e 1 -- ab on their backs so that after an opp~rtune tune came they could reverse utterly and completely their publicly stated policy in that field. / It should be read into the record, Mr. Sneaker. The first indication that we ~ot was on December . 6, I believe (I am referring to a note here, it is not a press clipping or anything, it is just a note that I made for myself) in which I said to the press outside this House, I said; ''Surely the Premier and the Mini~ter of Justice 111Ust be two of the most hypocritical men ever to grace Newfoundland politics. and that is saying a lot.

These two men could not find enou~h bad things to say about Mr. Shaheen a year or two ago, they wanted him booted out of Newfoundland forever. Now that the Premier and the Minister of Justice are in government their attitude is apparently suddenly changed. Accordin~ to news reports, they are using ~r. Shaheen's chartered jet for a frolic down to Cape Kennedy and worsE. still'' J,fr. Speaker, I said at that time; "They are tryinr, to make Newfoundlanders believe that the plane belongs to Vice-President Agnew. That is what we heard. Well what next?

I would take Shaheen over Agnew any day as it happens,because obviously, the ~inister of Justice has bad taste. MR. HICIOl'AN: ~- W.N.ROWE: - - A~new is a very fine fellow. Is he? It is too bad that he is a Fascist. He might be all ri~ht if he were not a Fascist. Anyway. ~r. Speaker, I asked at the same time a rhetorical question; "I wonder how Mr. Crosbie (the "'inister of Finance now) feels now about two of his own p,overnment collear,ues acceptin~"(wcll I said favours, that is a strong word for the sake of effect)"sort of pleasantries from Hr. Shaheen?" That was the first inklinr,, Mr. Speaker.

Less than 11 year after this crowd, this government p.ot into power, the first inklinr. that perhaps we were r,oinr. to see some very f11ncy hut unskillful manoeuvrin~ by this government in a policy about-face, turn around and a stah in the back to many of their supporters. 3147

•-•~rch zc,, 1973, Tape 903, Pap.e 2 -·- apb Let us ~o back a couple of years, we will all be interested in these I think. Come by Chance file, dated; January 26 1 1970, the paper, "The Daily News." "Marshall disturbed over decision." "The president of the Proy,reflsive Conservative Association William 't-'arshall," (this is who is makinr, this public utterance now) and he says, fd'r.

Speaker, "Does the hesitation of the federal goverTll!lent relate to failure of performance of the Shaheen Interests and how has the Newfoundland RefininF; Company met 0 (that is the Shaheen Company)•its obligations since the enabling legislation was passed by the House of Assembly?" Not very serious an allegation, Mr. Speaker, merely asking questions but giving the impression, giving the firm impression that there is something desperately wrong with Shaheen and the Shaheen group of co11ll)anies. That was away back in January of 1970, when they really just started to make their various charges and accusations.

Come by Chance. February 4, 1970, "The Evening Telegram." Headline; "Crosbie wants select committee to investigate proposed refinery." Investigate it. A select committee. "There are a number of questions that have to be answered," said ~r. Crosbie. By the way, fd'r. Speaker, I will not table these because I have notes on them but I can get copies made off this and table them in the House if anybody wants them. "A select cotnmittee could report on a number of things," said ~r.

Crosbie, "Such as what a~reements have been entered into, whether or not the Shaheen interests have met all the conditions set out in the l er.isl at ion, what happened to the $5 million interim financin~ that had been advanced in connection with the pro .1ect." Reasonable questions. "!-fr. Crosbie wondered who the bridr,e financinr, had been paid out to and what it had been paid out for?" What confidence, 'P-'r. Speaker, in his present friend and buddy. He asked; "Has all the money been spent on facilities down in Come by Chance or has a lot of it been spent to cover overhead of the Shaheen Companies?

"What has 3148

~arch 29, 1873, Tape 903, Page 3 apb happened to it?~· he says. On the face of it. reaso .nable questions until you stut to realize, Mr. Speaker, that over the period of Jnonths- and years that this sort of thi~ 1f8& going on. you see that there was a deliberate attetnpt to make it look like the Shaheen Companies, the Corte by Chance deal were irresponsible, that the Shaheen Companies were probably going to skip off to Uruguay with t:he $5 million. This is the il!lpression you got, Mr. Speaker, and this is only the mildest of the stu.ff. We will build up to a deafenin~ crescendo as time f'Oes on.

AN HO~. _ME¥.BF.P ~ (Inaud .ible) , MR. W.N.ROWE: Pardon! AN RON. ~FR: Is the Leader df the Liberal 'Party the~e? 1-m. W.N.ROWE: Well they are all here but you can make them i,f you want to. ML HlCIQ!AN: ~r. Wells. Mr. Clyde Wells. MR. W.N.JIOWE: Mr. Wells? 314!)

March 29, 1973 Tape No. 904 NM - 1 MR. WM. ROWE: I run not interested either in the former leader of the party, Mr. Smallwood, I am not going to quote him. You know he is out of politics. Mr. Wells is out of politics as well. I would assume if the honourable minister ever gets out of politics he would like to not be hauled into political acrimony. But if the minister wants to say anything about Mr. Wells, Mr. Smallwood or anyone else - MR, ROBERTS: Clyde Wells has not joined his administration, in fact he retained his integrity. MR. WM. ROWE: Anyway, Mr.

Speaker, Come By Chance February 24, 1970 of "The Evening Telegram~ "Crosbie Calls For A Committee To Probe The Proposed Refinery~ says the headline. February 26, in "The Evening Telegram," "Refinery Investigation Proposal Is Defeated," The former administration had the sense to defeat it. Hin a six hour long," Mr.

Speaker, and this was the honourable minister who was complaining about a couple of hours of speech on my part the other day,~In a six hour Private Members7 Day debnte, John Crosbie, Liberal Independent, St, John's West,demanded that the committee be appointed to determine the present status of the project." Those were the demands in those days, Mr, Speaker, no select committee now on Come By Chance or on McLean or on Stephenville, no select committees now, Mr, Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: The information is public. MR. WM. ROWE: Oh yes, Mr. Speaker, it is all public now. MR.

ROBERTS: Yes, yes, it is all public, is it not? MR. WM. ROWE: Come By Chance - February 26, 1970, "The Daily News," "Crosbie -.J,R.S. Jewel On Come By Chance," "We Get All The Risks But Not The Cravey Cries Crosbie, Mr. Crosbie told the House that he would go briefly into the history of the oil refinery. He said that the project was first advanced by Mr. Shaheen in the winter of 3150

March 29, 1973 Tape No. 904 NM - 2 1967 and at my suggestion 11 (the minister's auggestion)••a co111111ittee of Cabinet composed of the President of the Council, Mr. Curtis, T. Alex Hickman, Clyde Wells and Mr. Crosbie was appointed to go into the matter. He said that the committee met with Mr. Shaheen and his associates and it was agreed," the committee agreed,can you believe this, ''the committee agreed that a crown corporation would be eatabliahed to handle the project." The committee headed up by the honourable Minister of finance who the other day, Mr.

Speaker, was condemning crown corpotrations and all that kin4 of thing. . "Stupid, foolish," he aid. "This was the inducement - relief from federal taxation," Mr. Crosbie said. Mr. Crosbie said, "There was quite a difference," quotes in the paper here, "Quite a difference between dealing with John c. Doyle and John Shaheen." This is what I said the other day, it is summarized here. He said, ''When you deal with Mr. Doyle you tcnow where you stand. He is a sharp bargainer but will let you know where you and he stand." I am sure, Mr.

Speaker, I am sure he always let the honourable minister know exactly where he stood. "However dealing with John Shaheen is a different quintal of fish," he did not elaborate. Well he has been elaborating over the past few days. It is a different quintal of fish, you see, although John C. Doyle was a good fellow, obviously what the minister at that time meant to say was that John Shaheen was even a better fellow. Right? Or did he mean that John Shaheen was not such a good fellow? I do not know.

"He said that he and his fellow coatmittee members had drafted a new agreement by January 19, 1968 which he, the minister, reluctantly accepted:' Reluctantly &ccepted, He accepted it, Mr. Speaker. To hear the minister talk the other day, he had no more to do with the Shaheen deal now - Hr. Smallwood 3151

March 29, 1973 Tape No. 904 NM - 3 MR. WM. ROWE: had all to do with -the Shaheen deal. The Minister of Finance had no more to do with the Shaheen deal than the man in the moon to hear him talk. ''The St. John's West member concluded his ninety minute speech with, 'We have much to lose if this venture is unsuccessful. Shaheen has little to lose even if it is unsuccessful."' Well, Mr. Speaker, that argument may be right but it certainly applies as much to the second refinery as to the first. Mr. Speaker, do you want to call it one o'clock? Ha. CROSBIE: We would not interrupt. MR. WM.

ROWE: Yee, I would like to do that, but unfortunately I have to go and put my remarks here on tape see, to malc.e sure that as many people hear about it as possible. They are interested, Mr. Speaker. The honourable minister is not interested but the public are interested. They are sick of the hypocricy, Mr. Speaker, sick of it. Listen now, we will hear the great saviour - MR. SPEAKER: It now being one o'clock,I do leave the Chair until three o'clock this afternoon. 3152

March 29, 1973 The House resumed at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 905(Afternoon) MR. ROWF.(W.N.): Mr.

Speaker, I had just gotten into some supporting evidence for the amendment which I moved earlier today, seconded by my colleague the member for Labrador North, an amendment to the Address in Reply which for clarity I think I should read again as I think there might have been some misunderstanding over it. •While this House has welcomed plans to build a new oil refinery at Come by Chance as a continuation of the policy of the Smallwood administration this House records its lack of confidence in the present administration because by this complete reversal of their publicly stated and oft repeated policy against association with Mr.

Shaheen and developments in which he was involved the present administration have now admitted that by their earlier public atatements they had utterly mislead the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and had totally misrepresented to the public what their position would be on such industrial projects and the developers connected with them." · MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, if I may rise on a point of order with respect to the amendment which is in order at this time and I am not completely sure how well it is taken although I think it is well-founded.

Beauchesne on page 143, paragraph 175, states that, "Members should be extremely careful in moving their amendments on the Address in Reply because otherwise the House having given its judgement on the various points that are brought forward then,if later other amendments are moved which touch these very points which have already been decided upon any similar amendments,they should be declared to be out of order." Then again I also refer to Beauchesne, Mr. Speaker, to the effect that it is order and on page 130, paragraph 155, "(

l) It will be useful to give examples here of expressions which are unparliamentary and call for the prompt 3153 JM - 1

March 29, 1973 Tape 905 interference. They may be claesified as follows:"paragraph (2) says, "The misrepresentation of the language of another and the accusation of misrepresentation." Now there are two points I draw to Your Honour's attention, number one the matter of the second oil refinery at Come by Chance and the involvement of Mr. Shaheen have already been matters which have been decided by this House, they have already been voted upon and I might state, voted upon unanimously.

So that I would contend that this is perhaps a matter which has already been decided upon by the House itself and as such should be declared out of order. That is the first point. The second point is that it is out of order, certainly very much out of order, Mr. Speaker, to use language which would include certainly the amendment itself which accuses or makes a statement. lt contains an accusation of misrepresentation. Now as I have heard the amendment by the hon. member for White Bay South that has bee.n proposed,he has used such words certainly as "mislead" and maybe "misrepresentation." I am not quite sure.

I do not think I caught the word "misrepresentation" but certainly mislead has been used. To accuse someone of mfsleading is also to accuse somebody of misrepresentation. So on these two points, Mr. Speaker, I draw them to the attention of the House and wonder whether the amendment itself really is in order. MR. ROWE(W.N.): May I speak to the point of order, Mr. Speaker? The two points made by the hon. Government House Leader, point number one,a motion is only out of order, Mr. Speaker, if it revives somethin~ which has already been decided upon. This amendment, Mr.

Speaker, has nothing to do with the merit or deinerits of the bill which came before this House. This amendment, Sir, this motion now before the House has to do with something which is extraneous to it. It might be indirectly related to it, extraneous. to that. We voted in favour of the bill that came before this 3154 JM - 2

Tsp~ 905 House and we spoke on it. The principle of that bill was as to whether money would be guaranteed and money lent to a Shaheen operation in order to put a second oil refinery in Come by Chance. This motion here, Sir, merely draws to the attention of the House and asks for a vote of no-confidence to the House on the basis of the switch around in policy of this present administration. It has nothing to do .with the merits or substance of the bill which was before this House.

Point number two, Sir, the rule against statements made in this House about a member misleading or misrepresenting are in respect of statements,as I understand it, made in this House. Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about on this amendment,it is in the past tense that this present administration, not in this House, Mr.

Speaker, but this administration in the past had by the statements outside of the House or inside of the House in another session but certainly not during this session, had utterly misled the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and had totally misrepresented to the public what the position would be on such industrial projects and the developers connected with them. So, Sir, there is no question about me saying that any member of this hon. House has by statements in this House during this present session or since this new government came into power have misled the llouse, Mr. Speaker.

It refers to things in the distant past, two or three years ago, that members of this administration have made. In any event, Sir, the Minister of Finance has said on one or two occasions in this llouse that something was miAleadin~ or something was deceiving 3155

March 29, 1973 Tape 906 as long as the imputation ·ls not that somebody deliberately set out with malice aforethou~ht to mislead,Hr. ~peaker, as T undecstand the parliamentary rule, the language of misleadin~ or misrepresentation.is in order. IB-1 HON. W. MARSHALL: (MINTSTER OF PORTFOLIO): Let me point out finally, Hr. Speaker, on this point of order that the words misled and totally mis­ representated are part of the resolution. A resolution certainly constitutes an accusation against a member or again~t the government and as such is out of order.

Also, as I say, I do contend with respect to the other matter that this is something that has already been debated by the House as such. RON. G. OTTENHEIMER: (MINISTER OF EDUCATION): I wonder if I may speak to the point of order there because the poor articled clerk is looking at me there with malice aforethought. Nr.

Speaker, there is no doubt that, as Your Honour will read the amendment, per se, the fifth line up from the bottom: "The present administration have now admitted, by their earlier public statements, they have utterly misled the people of Newfoundland." I suggest, Sir, that is an obvious, direct imputation of misleading. One cannot use the word misled or mislead in any tense without an accusation of misleading. I would suggest also, Mr. Speaker, that the malice aforethought as suggested by the honourable mover of the amendment is not a require­ ment.

There is no requirement in the rules of parliamentary procedure of malice aforethought. One is not thinking in areas of criminal law. One is speaking here of laws of parliamentary procedure and there is no mention in Beauchesne anywhere of malice aforethought and I would suggest, Sir, that that is not a necessary requirement, Mis­ representation or misleading is the central point and not the malice aforethough element. HON. E. ROBERTS: (LtAnF.R OF THF. OPPOSITION): Hr. Speaker, If I may be allowed to say a word or two on this point,because I think that it is an important point.

I will deal first of all with the honourable gentleman, the articled clerk from St. ~ary's by way of Cambridge. 3156

March 29, 19 73 Tape 906 18-2 AN HONOIJRAIII.F'. Mf.1-'Rt:R: lnaurlfhle. -- ,.._, ___ ·---·--- MR. ROBERTS: He ill articled to the - well then sins of the fathers, ~r. Speaker, shall truly visit upon the sons. He gave him leave to speak. Mr. Speaker, it is more to the point of the bench which would give him leave to apply for admission to the bar. AN HONOURABLE 1-fE"'BER: Inaudible. MR. ROBERTS: There is at least one but the gentleman concerned was not a member of the House at that time. He was working night and day. Mr. Speaker, to deal first with the matter raised by the member from St.

Mary's, the Minister of Education. Beauchesne may or aay not be silent on the point. Beauchesne is - Your Honour has told us on numerous occasions - is merely the authority to which one refers when our o~m rules, our own precedents are silent. Our own rules are silent on this as on so many other questions. When they are not silent they are confused but the precedents are clear. Within the past two or three weeks the honourable gentleman from St. John's West,the Minister of Education,has accused me in the House of misleading - MR. W. ROWE: The ~inister of Finance you mean. MR. ROBERTS: I am sorry.

It is just coming events casting their shadows agftin. I do apologize to the Minister of Education and the education community at large for that slip. The Minister of Finance accused me of misleading and I got up and said that it was unparliamentary and he was good enough to withdraw it and say that the honourable gentleman from 1-lhite Bay North did not deliberately mislead and that he was allowed to say one was unintentionally misleading. That was allowed to stand. Your Honour confirmed it in Hansard. Your Honour I do not think was in the Chair at the point.

The clerk I am sure will confirm that that is what happened. So, our precedents are clear. My friend from White Hay South, our own House Leader,hRs not in his motion said thnt the !louse was mi.sled. He merely points 31 ~j 7

March 29, 1973 Tape 906 IB-3 out that the people of Newfoundland were misled. Furthermore Mr. Speaker, if this sort of motion is ~uite in order one could find precedents in Ottawa. One could even, I suggest,although I have not researched them, find precedents in Newfoundland. Furthermore ,, Mr. Speaker, I should point out that this motion has been accepted by Your Honour, has been read from the Chair and is under debate. No point of order was taken at the time and even if there is a point of order - I do not think there is - I submit that the honourable gentlemen on the other side have let their rights lapse.

This motion came on at a quarter to one o'clock Your Honour was given a copy in advance, not very long in advance. Your Honour read the motion and allowed debate on it to proceed without any objection from any gentleman opposite. I realize that the House Leader was not here but if he wants to go practice law and not attend upon the business of the House, that is his problem. So, I submit, Sir, that even if there was a valid point of order - and there is not in my opinion - the honourable gentleman has lost his right tc raise it. AN HONOURABLE GENTLEMAN: A separate matter altogether. MR.

ROBERTS: That is a separate matter altogether. Now, further to his other point on the subject matter of this conflicting with the subject matter of a bill which was disposed o~by this House: There is no similarity, ~ir. We may be referring to some of the same events but the bill was clearlY, as my friend from White Ray South has said, a bill to authorize the government of this province to enter into an agreement with certain interests, the agreement being part of the bill. The motion was debated. It was disposed of.

As it so happened every member in the House voted for it with exception of the gentleman from Labrador South who again was not here for the vote. He took no

part in the debate. So. we do not know where he stood. Every other honourable member who was present stood and voted for it. That was disposed of. We are not attempting to revive it. We are instead referring to an entirely different suh1ect,namely that cert:tin gentlemen misled the people of Newfoundlnnd, totally and utterly, It is the point of 3158

March 29, 1973 Tape 906 the motion. I suhmit that it is in order and that the debate should he allowed to go ahead. IB-4 HON. L. HARRY: (~INISTF.R OF MINF.S AND ENF.Rr.Y): Mr. Speaker, I just want to make a brief comment. The first part of the amendment I will not comment on. I think that argument has already been exhausted on it.

With respect to the later part where it states that the present administration had now admitted by their earlier public statements that they had utterly misled the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and had totally misrepresentated to the public what their position would be on such industrial projects and the developers connected with them: Now, whatever this misled or misleading term may imply I submit, Mr. Speaker, that the reference too had totally misrepresented, to note,something that is done intentionally. I submit, Mr.

Speaker, that to premit the honourable member to present it is to premit the honourable niember to question the honour of members on this side of the House and this is clearly contrary to parliamentary procedure as set out in Beauchesne on page 131,

section 155(3), "No member can be allowed to attribute any intention to insult others or, secondly, to question the honour of one." I submit that to premit this term to be used in the resolution is to premit the honourable member to question the honour of members of this honourable House and such is out of order. HR. W. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I am going to be the last one to speak on this since it most directly affects my motion. rhere is one matter which has not been raised at all in the argument, Mr.

Speaker, and that 1s that all these references in Reauchcsne refer to state­ ments made in the House, statements made fmpur,ning someone~ honour or deliberately mislead1ng. ~r. Speaker, it is a clear parliamentary rule,as I am sure Your Honour realizes, that anything in the House is parliamentary if it is rlone by motion. For example, it is unparliamentary 3159

March 29, 1973 Tape 906 to refer to Her Majesty'R judp.es in the Supreme Court. You are not permitted to refer to them unless you make a motion to some effect affecting Her Ma.1esty's judges. Then you are permitted to refer to them. It is unparliamentary for me to IB-5 call the House Leader,for example, a man who is guilty of some in­ famous crime. It is unparliamentary for me to do that. It is parliamentary for me to make a motion to the effect that he be censored because he is guilty of some crime or something else like that, So, what we are talking about, Mr.

Speaker, what the honourable members on the other side are trying to do by their point of order is tryi~g to destroy the very basis of parliamentary government, namely that anything can be brought up by way of motion. We may not be able to say that so and so is a scoundrel or a thief but if in fact a member wants to make a motion to that effect and pTove it and have the vote of his peers in the House on that matter, that is in fact parliamentary, Mr.

Speaker, MR, SPEAKER: This being a matter of great substance and the whole point of this debate hin3ing upon it, it be incumbent upon me to take five minutes to research the subject with my officals. 3160

Karch 29, 1973 Tape no. 907-908 Page 1 - KRW With regard to the point of order raised by the hon. House Leader, I refer honourable gentleman to page 132,

article 156 of Beauchesne which reads as follows: "The proper time for interference is when the offensive expressions are uttered and not afterwards, It may take place either on the Speaker's voluntary motion or on the call to order of the member assailed or by some other member or the general call of the House." The time that the motion was made by the hon, House Leader for the Opposition no point of order was raised and while under art:fcle 154, sub (3) of Beauchesne: "The Chair could have at that time voluntarily intervened," it did not.

For these reasons we find there is no point of order and that the hon. the House Leader will be allowed to proceed. AN HON. HEM.BER: The better half. HR. W. N. ROWE: Well, Hr. Speaker, the hon. Government House Leader must be getting bowed and bloody by the buffeting he is taking in this House, especially from Your Honour. KR. MARSHALL: (Inaudible). _KR. W. N. ROWE: He does not know how to adjourn the House, Hr. Speaker. He has not learned that yet. He does not know how to make a point of order and sustain it because he is wrong usually.

I am sure, Sir, that that is irrelevant to this debate so I will not pursue it. He must becoming very, very humble, judging from his track record in this House on points of order, procedure and adjournments. MR. SPEAKER: If the honourable member would permit, the Chair is not going to allow the honourable member to launch a tirade on the merits or demerits of the debating ability of the Minister without Portfolio. The honourable member has been allowed to carry on with his argument on the matter that is supposed to be under discussion and I direct him to do so. KR. W. N. ROWE: Your Honour is absolutely right.

Nobody can carry on a long debate on the ability of the House Leader. It has to be short. 3161

March 29, 19 73 Tape no. 907-908 Page 2 - MRW Mr. Speaker, I wa• giving some upporting evidence as to vhy we think that this administration, before it became the administration, the members thereof, the party which they now represent in this House, utterly misled and totally misrepresented to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador as to what their position would be with regard to men like Mr. Shaheen, like the Come-by-Chance project and like developers and promoters who come into this province or are alre~dy in this province and become associated with that type of a project.

They utterly misled them, Sir, and 1 gave one or two examples 1 believe this afternoon or thia morning on why we thought that the motion was a good one. 1 do not know what is wrong with my watch here, Mr. Speaker. All 1 can aay is that I hope the Minister of Finance has better luck with his Japanese loan than 1 am having with this Japanese watch. It will no~ stay on at all. Mr. Speaker, 1 have some clippings, Sir, concerning the period of time that we were mentioning earlier. I have a clipping here from the "Evening Telegram," February 26, 1970 concerning Come-by-Chance.

"House Defeats Bid For Committee To Probe Refinery Project." 1 believe that bid was made by the hon. Minister of Finance when he was then in the opposition, a Liberal Reform Member of the Opposition. March 12, 1970, the "Evening Telegram" again, the headline: "Oil Refinery Coat Questioned By H.H.A." It goes on to say: "T. Alex Hickman, P.C., Burin, charged in the Legislature Tuesday that the proposed 100,000 barrel a day Come-by-Chance Oil Refinery will cost $130 million while a refinery of the same size is being built in the Province of Quebec for $70 million.

The only real difference in the two oil refineries," said Hr. Hickman, "is that the Come-by-Chance refinery has to install catalytic cracking devices for the production of jet fuel." Even in those days, Sir, when the honourable minister was casting aspersions and gloom on every aspect of the Come-by-Chance Oil Refinery, he was showing himself to be such an expert, Mr. Speaker, in the oil refinery business. There he was casting doom and gloom around in respect of the first one. 3.1 G2

March 29. 1973 Tape no. 908 Page 3 Hy honourablP- collear,ue has just given me a photograph from the "Evening Telegram." I do not see the date on it. It shows the hon. Minister of Justice back in 1968 placidly and complacently sitting back in his seat, when he was a Liberal iai.nister of the goverrunent, listening to the debate on the oil refinery of that day. HR. ROBERTS: That was the night of a no-confidence motion as a result of - MR. W,N.ROWE: The moving over of - MR. ROBERTS: One of his trips across the floor. MR. W. N. ROWE: That was his first trip I think, when he and Mr.

Wells left the then administration and moved across and the hon. Minister of Justice stayed where he was, The strong-principled gentleman stayed where he was, Mr. Speaker. He would not move on that particular one. MR . ROBERTS: It is a very handsome picture. MR. W. N. ROWE: It is a good_picture. It shows the minister, Sir, half asleep in his seat. March 26, 19 70, Mr. Speaker, "Daily News," the headline: "Reaction Skeptical To Come-by-Chance Announcement." It is a beautiful picture, Mr. Speaker.

It shows the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Social Assistance, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Public Works, all of them then, Mr. Speaker, skeptical to the Come-by-Chance announcement. "Cheers And Jeers For Smallwood," Sir, in this headline. Here is a beaut. Mr. Speaker, April 7, 19 70 of the "Evening Telegram," which a tates: "Future Of Province Depends On Come-by-Chance Project. 'No tomorrow if mistake made,' said Hickman. T.

Alex Hickman suggested Monday in the Legislature that the refinery proposed for Come-by-Chance will not be an oil refinery for production of jet fuel but a $150 million depot or farm for Middle East crude oil. 'Come-by-Chance will be competitive with other established North American oil refineries only if promoter John Shaheen can come up with some great new schemes of refining jet fuel that none of the other major companies are aware of,' eaid Mr.

Hickl'lllJn who was speaking in the Throne Speech debate. 'For sometime now," he said. 'there has not been a word about Come-by-Chance from the major oil companies because 31G3

March 29, 19 73 Tape no. 908 Page 4 they know it cannot happen and they just cannot be bothered vasting their time commenting on it.' · says Mr. Hickman, P. C., member for Burin. "According to Mr. Hickm