May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1315 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:30 p.m. Date: 04/05/10 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon. Welcome back. Let us pray. Author of all wisdom, knowledge, and understand- ing, we ask for guidance in order that truth and justice may prevail in all of our judgments. Amen. Now, hon. members and to all the people in the galleries today, would you please join in the singing of our national anthem. We’ll be led today by Mr. Maurice Lorieau. Feel free to participate in the language of your choice. Hon.

Members: O Canada, our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, We stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. The Speaker: Thank you. I think that only one thing more has to be said: go, Flames, go. Please be seated. head: Introduction of G uests The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly eight seniors from the Riverside Lions Village from my constituency of Edmonton-Whitemud. I had an opportunity to meet wi th them a little bit earlier today. They’re here in the members’ gallery: Mr. and Mrs. Bill and Mar garet Manning, Mrs. Ella Ozubko, Mrs. Natalie Kuch, Mr. and Mrs. Doug and Jean Whyte, Mrs. Vickie Deagle, and Mrs. Norma Johnston. They’re accompanied by Mrs. Mich elle Kraeling, who is their recreation/leisure consultant.

I’d ask that they please rise and recei ve the tr aditional w arm w elcome of this Assembly. Mr. Jonson: Mr. Speake r, today it is my pleasure to be able to introduce to you and throu gh you to members of the Assembly 27 students from the Rimbey elementary school. They are accompanied by their tea cher, Mr. Jim Moore, and parent helpers Mr. Dallas Mannix, Mrs. Marnie Bland, and Mrs. Laureen Morton. I would ask that they ris e and rec eive the traditional warm welcom e of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Gaming. Mr. Stevens: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and thr ough you to othe r members of t he Assembly Katie Hobday. Katie will be assisting me in the Calgary-Glenmore office this summer. Mr. Norris: A huge challenge. Mr. Stevens: A huge challenge indeed. Katie, Mr. Speaker, is just finishing her third year at U of C in a five-year, double degree program in economics and political science. When she’s not studying, she’s writing for the university newspaper, The Gauntlet, and working on a variet y of cl ubs. If K atie could please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assem- bly. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Calgary-West. Ms Kryczka: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m really very excited and proud to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly one of two very special men in my life in Calgary: my son, Mike Kryczka. Mike truly represents Alberta’s entre preneurial spirit. Years ago now, he ran his own landscap ing company whil e attendi ng t he University of Calgary in the petroleum land management program. He has successfully built and sold two junior oil and gas companies in southern Alberta and has launched his third, Bowood E nergy. He’s not as old as you’re thinking he is.

He loves masters badmin- ton, skiing, and golf and even fly-fishing, but most importantly Mike is a wonderful h usband to Sarah an d father to Emily, Jacob, and Joshua. I would ask Mike to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I’m also very pleased today to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly 72 visitors from Webber Academy, 63 grade 5 students a nd nine adults. Webber A cademy is a private school in the consti tuency of Calg ary-West, and their goal is to prepare students for university and beyond as leaders in the commu- nity and in society.

I would just like to say a few words about Dr. Neil Webber, their president. As many of you may or may not know, Neil was an MLA and minister for 14 years in this Legislature, from 1975 to 1989, for the constituency of Calgary-Bow. He held four portfolios, and I told him that I’d only mention two at this time, Energy and Education. He also has with him teachers Ms Janice Chan, Ms Janet Wushke, Mr. Daniel Mondaca, and parent helpers Ms Virginia Hughes and Mrs. Carol Cel li.

I woul d ask the Webber Academy students – I believe they’re in the public gallery – to please stand and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Lougheed. Ms Graham: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and other m embers of the A ssembly three members of my family who are visiting today from Red Deer. Actually, they belong to the Red Deer-North constituency. They are seated in your gallery. They are m y sist er, Audre y Gr aham-Thievin, her husband, Tom Thievin, and my niece, Kayla Thievin.

A udrey is a jazz m usician and a mus ic teacher. Tom is a pi ano tuner. Actu ally, they’re all musicians. Kayla was a member of the Red Deer Royals for many years, and she just finished her first year at NAIT in business. So I’d ask them to rise and receive the traditional welcome of the Assem- bly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Rocky View. Ms Haley: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s a real privilege for me to be able to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a group of very dedicated people.

I’m honoured that they are under contract through my office as the government caucus whip to look after the needs of the private members on the govern- ment side.

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041316 Mr. Speaker, in my office there are three young people working: Mr. Jason Zw arg, our dir ector of cauc us; Mr. Bar tek Kienc, the whip’s adminis trative assistant; and G erald Proctor, the whip’s legislative assistant. Going to the research branch, our senior researcher is Mr. Jason Ennis.

Our researchers are Matthew Steppan, Greg McFarlan e, Frank Ostlinger, who’s leavi ng us right away to move over to Government Services – we wish him all the best over there – Jordon Copping, Emir Mehinagic, Richard Westlund, Andrea Hennig, Dan Hanson, Mike Simpson, and David Williams, who will be sta rting with them next week.

The legislative assistants are, in alphabetical order, Jan Aldous, Deb Arcand, Darlene Beckstrand, Chris Brookes, Jon Buck, Darla Cowdell, Daryn Fersovich, Carmen Frebrowski, Gladys Gammon, Mike Gladstone, Brenda Goebel, Phyllis Hennig, Cheryl Koss, Donna Krasowski, June Lam, Cheryl Lees, Stacey Leighton, Barb Letendre, Brendalee Loveseth, Bethany MacGillivray, Marie Martin, Shelly McCrae, Leah Ritz, Diane Todoruk, and Joanne Williamson. These are the people who keep us on trac k y ear-round, Mr . Speaker, not just whe n question period is on, as we’re all up here working with them all the time.

They work with our constituency assistants as well, and they keep us well informed. I’m very grateful to them for their dedicated duties to us. I would ask them all to rise – they are in both galleries – and receive the warm welcome of this House. 1:40 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Dunvegan. Mr. Goud reau: Thank y ou very much, M r. S peaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce – a nd I’m not s ure that the y are here, but they’ll be joining us very shortly if they’re not – a group of students from Lloyd Garrison school in Berwyn.

Berwyn is between Fairview and Peace River, about five and a half hours’ drive from here, so it’s quite an effort for them and quite a pleasure for me to get a school group to visit the Legislature. They’re accompanied by teachers Mr. Rob Hoban and Ms Shaunna Regal and parent helpers Suzie Reyda, Bruce Warren, Mrs. Sandra Eastman, Mrs. Greit Heimstra, Mrs. Kim Alexander, and Mrs. Gwen Sukeroff. I don’t believe they are here, but I’d ask the Assembly nonetheless to wish them a warm welcome. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Dr. Pannu : Thank you ver y much, M r. Sp eaker.

I’ve go t two introductions today. I’ll start with the first one. I’m pleased to rise and introduce to y ou and through y ou t o this As sembly Mary Elizabeth Archer, who has been working as sessional support for the New Democ rat opposition dur ing the cur rent session of this Assembly. Mary Elizabeth has an exceptional work ethic and brings an enormous amount of energy and cheerfulness to her work. So I take this opport unity now to thank her for her v alued wor k and contribution to the work of the caucus. She is seated in the public gallery.

I would now request her to please rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, it’s my pleasure as w ell to introduc e to you a nd through you to the House Ms Elena Nap ora. Elena Napora is a member of the Edm onton Frie nds of the North Environmental Society. She is here this afternoon to observe the proceedings of the Assembly. Ms Napora is seated in the public gallery, and I would now ask her to rise to receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mountain View. Mr. Hlady: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me great pleasure to introduce four people to you today. The first one is my summer student. She is visiting us here to spend a couple of days to see how business works between the Legislature and constituency offices. Her nam e is Mela nie Fic, and I would ask her to please stand and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, the ot her three that I hav e to introduce today I’m truly honoured and hum bled to introduc e to y ou. These three gentlemen are here to observe, hopefully, with any luck, the passing of Bill 206 today in the Legislature.

These three gentlemen actually have felt the wrath of our feder al government and, unfortunately, were thrown in jail. They served a total of 90 days in jail for nothing more than the crime of selling their wheat to someone other than the Canadian Wheat Board. I would ask Jim Chatenay of Red Deer, Bill Moore of Red Deer, and Ron Duffy of Lacombe to please stand and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have a couple of introductions today.

I’m pleased to rise and introduce to you and through you to this Assembly a bright young woman who has come to work f or us for t he summ er a s part of the sum mer temporary employment program. She’s an honours graduate from the Univer- sity of Albe rta with a bachelor ’s degree in cultural anthropology. She’s also a c ommitted comm unity vol unteer. She ’s currently working with the Worl d Univers ity Ser vice of Canada a nd the Edmonton Immigrant Services Association, and we’re very pleased to have her working with us for the summer.

I would ask Ms Janina Strudwick to rise and receive the warm recognition of the Assembly. My second introduction, Mr. Speaker, is to introduce to you and through you to other members of the Assembly Héctor González and Leo Campos, two well-respected leaders of the Chilean community in Edmonton. Like thousands of Canadians of Chilean ancestry they were forced t o flee t heir home land bec ause of the brutality and oppression of the Pinochet dictatorship. These two gentlemen are seated in the public gallery.

I would ask Héctor González and Leo Campos to rise a nd receive the tradi tional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills. Mr. Marz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a bit of a surprise to see the students from We bber Academy here today as I was talking to one yesterday and she failed to advise me that they were going to be here. It’s a pleasure for me to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly my granddaughter Mackenzie Symonds.

Mackenzie, if you would rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Oral Quest ion Peri od The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. T he hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Automobile Insurance Reform Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government’s auto insur- ance plan is seen as a failure even by government MLAs. On e of them said about the plan this weekend, quote, there’s nothing in it for the average Albertan, end quote, and, quote, this is a long way from what the Premier promised Albertans, end quote. My questions are to the Premier.

The Premier’s own backbenchers say that the government’s auto insuranc e plan is a failure , so why won’t the Premier himself admit it?

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1317 Mr. Klein: Mr. Speake r, the gov ernment’s ultimate goal is t o establish a system of fair and affordable premiums that rewards good drivers with low premiums and doe sn’t penalize drivers based on age, gender, or factors that don’t relate to your driving record. Now, Mr. Speaker, we’ve taken steps to addr ess im mediate concerns such as freezing insurance rates, and we continue to work through the rest of th e reforms. We continue to work through the rest of the r eforms.

A uto insurance , needless to say , is a ve ry complex subject and very individual, an d the go vernment is still discussing the details of insurance reform. Bottom line: the strength of the system is that it’s base d on personal responsibility to be a good driver. Good drivers will pay fair and affordable premiums, and bad drivers will pay surcharges. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, an all-day standing policy commit- tee meeting is scheduled on M ay 27 to finalize the reforms, and I would think it would be appropriate to comment at that time. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speak er.

Wel l, given that public auto insurance plans in other provinces don’t collect information on age and gender when you’re applying for policies, as I discovered, will this government make it illeg al for a uto insurance companie s i n Alberta to collect this infor mation, specifically age and gender information, from auto insurance policyholders? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, I don’t know what the policies are of the various insurance companies operating in the province, but certainly since one component of automobile insurance is compulsory – and that is the public liability and property damage component – we are in a position to regulate that component only. Relative to the information that they seek, I don’t know if that will be moot or not, because what we are saying is that we want to end the discrimination that insurance companies might gather relative to age and ge nder. Mr.

Spe aker, it stands to re ason that the y would gather information relative to driving records because a bad driver should be penalized. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Well, given th e Premier’s com- ments that so of fended the C hilean-Canadian community made in response to a question on auto insurance last week, will he apologize for his remarks? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, I will have m ore to say on that late r. I understand that the hon. Me mber f or Ed monton-Highlands wil l probably be asking a question. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon.

Leader of the Official Opposition. 1:50 Achievement Testing Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Information has come out in the last couple of days that young students who do not pass their grade 3 achievement tests will be retested in grade 4. This has been widely condemned by educa tors, and va rious school j urisdictions in th e province have said that they will not co-operate on this matter unless they’re forced to. My questions are to the Premier.

Can the Premier tell us if the tests being propose d for gra de 4 wer e developed in Alberta specif ic to the A lberta cur riculum, or are the y being imported from out of province? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, as the minister responsible is not here, I’ll take the question under advisement. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll look for the answer tomor- row. Can the P remier tell t he Assemb ly if the govern ment is also planning to retest in grades 7 and 10 students who do not pass their achievement tests in grades 6 and 9? Mr. Klein: Same answer, Mr. Speaker.

I’ll take the question under advisement. Dr. Taft: And once again I’ll look for the answer tomorrow. Can the Premier tell this Assembly what the costs of this testing scheme will be? Mr. Klein: Again, Mr. Speake r, I’ll t ake the question under advisement. Government Travel Expenses Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, in October 2001 this gove rnment announced an immediate hiring freeze and made announcements to reduce government spending .

Last w eek at the Public Ac counts Committee meeting taxpayers were advised that all hosting expenses incurred by the government exceeding $600 are listed publicly in the Alberta Gazette. My first question is to the Minist er of Economic Development. How much money did the Department of Economic Development save when in October 2001 it was announced that international travel would be d eferred to reduc e gover nment spending? Mr. No rris: Well, I t hink some clarity, Mr. Speak er, should b e brought to the question the hon. member is asking.

As I recall, in the fall of 2001 there was a fairly catastrophic event that caused us to review the safety of ministerial travel. I don’t believe it had anything to do with the cost of the travel, so the question is I think twofold. In answer to his original question, I will get him dollar figures, but in actual fact – and the hon. minister of international and government affairs may w ant to comment as well – it w as seen as a safety measure primarily. Once it was dee med that it was saf e to travel again, we did so because Alberta is a remarkably strong ex porting province, Mr. Speaker .

We have t o sell our m essage around the world, and we’re going to continue doing it. Mr. MacDonald: Again to the same minister and this time regarding dollar figure s: wh y did the Econom ic Deve lopment de partment spend close to $20,000 on a lunch and a reception in Mexico City on September 23, 2002, when t his government was telling Albertans back home to reduce their expectations and make do with less? Mr. Norris: Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, with all due respect the question has no relevance to what he’s asking.

Our job as Economic Development is to sell the best economic model in the world, which is Alberta. It’s a v ery simple equation. We have the lowest tax regime, we have the best employment, and we have opportunities in forestry and agriculture and oil and gas, so our job, quite frankly, is to get out the re and sell it. One of our largest trading partners – I believe it’s number 3 in the list of the top five – is Mexico, so clearly, as any businessman would, it behooves us go get in front of our clients.

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041318 With reference to the specific lunch I don’t know if there were 50 people or 500, but I can tell you one thing. [interjection] Our trade with Mexico – and I’m hoping you’ll be silent long enough to hear this – has gone up approximately 500 per cent in the last four years, Mr. Speaker, from about $600 million to about $1.2 billion. I know that the hon. me mbers w ho are ve ry, v ery pa ssionate a bout the agriculture industry will be pleased to know that our border is open to Mexico, and the agriculture minister may want to supplement as well.

But I don’t understand; if the reference is that we spent money promoting the province of Alberta to create more jobs, I’ll never ever stop doing that. Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, this time to the Premier: given that all other government departments must list hosting expenses over $600, why i s the Premier exempt from the credit card policy directive issued under the Financia l Administration Act, which is one of the rules regarding documentation to support ministry-related business expenses? Why are you exempt? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, I think that names on credit cards are pretty well exempt under the FOIP legislation, which was supported by the Liberals. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Lougheed. Automobile Insurance Reform (continued) Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Last October the Premier promised Albertans that all good drivers would see reduc- tions in their insurance premiums. He subs equently modified this position to promis e that m ost drivers wo uld see reductions, then more recently that a few drivers would see reductions.

Martha and Henry could b e forgiven for won dering w hy J ackie a nd Ron in Saskatchewan or Mary and Tom in B.C. are allow ed to enjoy cheaper public auto ins urance while Albertans are left li ning the pockets of profitable auto insurance co mpanies. This is to the Premier. Give n that Gordon Campbell, Grant Devine, and Gar y Filmon, none of whom are strangers to the Premier’s own Conserva- tive ideology, have each recognized that public auto insurance is the best way to deliver lower rates to drivers, why won’t this Premier? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speake r, our g oal, as I poi nted out to the hon.

Leader of the Official Opposition, is to establish a system of fair and affordable premiums using the f ree enterprise and entrepreneurial system, at leas t that portion of the sy stem t hat is reg ulated by government as it re lates to pub lic li ability and propert y damage insurance, which is mandatory in this province. We want to arrive at a system that rewards good drivers with low premiums and doesn’t penalize based on age, gender, or other fac tors that don’t relate to driving records. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Well, given that B.C., Manitoba, and Saskatchewan have all developed public auto insurance programs witho ut bein g threatened with bloody coups, how can the Premier continue to dismiss the Consumers’ Association of Canada report that showed that public auto insurance delivers the cheapest and best product for drivers? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, historically and traditionally we’ve had private insurance in this province, and there hasn’t been a problem with it until this government identified the problem. [interjections] This government identified the proble m.

It w asn’t the opposition parties that identified the problem; it wasn’t the third party NDs that identified the problem. It was thi s government and the hon. Ministe r of Finance who brought the matter to caucus and said – and I’m paraphrasing right now – we have a problem, and the problem is that it’s h urting the economy where young drivers, because they are male between the ages of 16 and 25, c annot be employed because of high insurance rates, no r can they afford t o drive a per sonal car b ecause of high insurance rates.

She also pointed out that older males, males over 65 years of age, were being discriminated against because of their age and because of their gender. She said that we have to deal with this problem, and that’s precisely what is happening right now. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Premier apologize to Alberta’s Chilean community for trying to conceal his government’s bungled insurance reforms behind praise for ruthless and murderous dictators? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, you know, th ey say, “Bite your tongue,” and I plan to do just that, because I am not hiding behind a ruthless killer. Mr. Speaker, I would l ike to take this opportunity to clarify my remarks about the Pinochet r egime in Chile. I’m not an historian, nor is the hon. Me mber for Edmon ton-Highlands, but I rece ntly completed a paper for one of my university courses on some aspects on Chilean his tory. It was e ntitled Al lende, Pinochet and the Chilean Media. I received a mark of 77 per cent, not great but not bad.

My research for that paper made me very aware that the Pinochet government was responsible for an untold number of deaths and for the destruction of the lives and hopes of many, many Chileans. I’ve since had the oppor tunity to visit Chi le and have se en that th ings have stabilized there tremendously.

I know tha t many people of Chilean origin liv ing in Al berta stil l bear the scars a nd painful memories of that dark period in Chilean history, a history that lasted until 1989, if my memory serves me right, when free elections were held again. 2:00 My comments last w eek were not mea nt in an y way to suggest personal suppor t or admiration for the Pinochet regime. Quite the contrary. Again, I’ll be glad to table the paper, that points out that Salvador Allende was elected president in 1970, the first communist ever to be elec ted in a dem ocratic v ote.

The pap er sets out the moves he made to nationalize a number of industries in Chile and the wrath that he incurred from the CIA and the Americans, ostensibly over the socialization of the copper mines. My only purpose for making those remarks was to point out that socialism can often lead to unintended and negative repercussions in societies, and unfortunately that’s what happened in Chile. It did. The remarks w ere made in the contex t of a di scussion about the merits of socialism. However, let me be clear.

I had no intention of appearing to argue that th e Pi nochet gov ernment was in any w ay pre ferable to its predecessor. As a matter of fact, it was a brutal government. I very much appr eciate t he contributions and the inte grity of Chilean communities in Alberta and want them and all Albertans to know that I am aware that the mere mention of the name Pinochet

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1319 can resurrect great sorrow. For that reason I will endeavour to be more appreciative of those concerns even as we debate important and timely issues in this Legislature. With that, Mr. Speaker, I’d be glad to table my term paper. The Chilean community and members of the opposition can read it and assess it, and maybe my learned friend across the way will give me a better mark. Addictions Treatment for Youth Ms Graham: Mr. Speaker, late last year I was appointed chair of the board of the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission.

Since that time I have gained an appreciat ion for the excellent programs that AADAC sponsors and the very good people that are delivering these servi ces to Albertans who suffer f rom alcohol and other substance abuse as well a s gambling problems. Howe ver, it ha s come to my attention t hat we do hav e a gap i n our continuum of services in that w e lack detoxification and re sidential t reatment services for the youth of our province. I was surprised to learn of this, because we do provide this for adults in the province at several locations. This is the number one unfunded priority for AADAC.

My questio ns this aft ernoon are to the Minister of Health a nd Wellness. Is the minister in support of AADAC’s plans to develop these services for the youth of our province? Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, I share the concern expressed by the hon. member, and I would s uspect that we could speak on behalf of all Albertans when we talk about concerns for addiction, whether those addictions are ca used by g ambling or alcohol or drugs. It i s a problem tha t can be s ignificant to individua ls. It’s a cost that i s borne by all of society. We are w orking ve ry hard, Mr.

S peaker, at comi ng up with comprehensive, integrated, and balanced programs that can help deal with thes e. AADAC has been i nvolved not onl y by itself but working in collaboration with Alberta Children’s Services and the Department of the Solicitor General. Youth services are important, and I know that AADAC does consider this to be a great priority. The priorities of AADAC have changed over time. Mr. Spea ker, I c an say that I’m supportive of AADAC moving forward in making sur e that its top priorities are dea lt with.

I f AADAC believes and if the hon. member in her c apacity as chair believes that this is a top priority, then I presume that it will come through as a top priority in future business plans for the operations of AADAC. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Graham: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have one other question to the same minister.

In the face of growing substance abuse problems, including the use of the very destructive crystal meth drug, and given that there is a growing demand from the community, from parents, from child advocates, from a res olution at our PC co nference two weeks ago, where it was unanimously supported that we do this, I’m wondering if the minister is prepared to act quickly to establish at least one detox and residential treatment centre in the province for children. Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, it’s difficult for me to answer as an individ- ual expressing my support for such a program.

I can say, though, that t hrough the proce ss of busi ness plans we do f und the top priorities put forward by agencies of government like AADAC. I think it’s worth noting, Mr. Speaker, that in the year 2003-2004 AADAC did receive an increase in the magnitude of 25 per cent. A large portion of tha t increas e was de dicated towards a tobacco reduction st rategy, which was also co nsidered to be a very high priority. For the 2004-2005 year a 10.3 per cent increase was tabled in the budget. We do of course n eed to maintain the important services that AADAC provides, and it’s a question of priorities.

If AADAC were able to find w ithin its budge t the abilit y to m ove forw ard on a residential treat ment fac ility for yout h and they vie w it to be a priority, then I would certainly support it. Electoral Reform Ms Blakeman: Mr. Speaker, Alberta is the birthplace of many of the major democratic reform initiatives in Canada, including recall and citizens’ initiatives, but now the government of Alberta just points a blaming finger at other jurisdictions w hile it lag s behind in implementing democratic reform. One way the government could improve its de mocratic record would be to implement a citizens’ assembly.

My questions are to the Premier. Will the Premier follow the lead of other provinc ial gove rnments and look at a lternative electoral systems to replace the outdated first past the post system? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, the system has served us quite well over the course of history. Other tha n the question r aised by the hon. member, I must say that I don’t get a lot of cards and letters on this particular issue. Mind you, there is a small portion of the population who become involved in democratic reform, so to speak.

Quite frankly, I’ve spoken on this subject in the past, and I’ve said that this is pre cisely the kin d of th ing th at th e Al liance and the Conservatives had to put aside in order to focus on the b ig-picture items and the matters that are of concern to most Canadians and, I would say, most Alberta ns. Those are hea lth, educati on, good infrastructure, safe communities, prote ction of the environm ent, responsibility for those less fortunate in society, and all of the other core services that government offers. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you.

Again to the Premier: what plans does the government have to increase voter participation in provincial elections by people under 30? Mr. Klein: That’s an interesting question, Mr. Speaker. I wa sn’t aware that there was a problem relative to voters under 30 years of age. I would say to the hon. member, as I would say to anyone: “Get out there and v ote. It ’s your democratic right. If you’re over 18 years of age and a Canadian citizen, get out and vote. Vote for the party or the person of your choice, but please vote.” The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Okay.

Again to the Premier: what are the reasons that this government won’t put a citizens’ assem bly on electoral reform in place? 2:10 Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, as I said before, nobody is asking. I guess it’s a fun damental policy of this governme nt that if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Traditionally and historically we have operated a system here that has served the people of this province quite well. If I can ge t political just for a moment, it’s no wonder tha t the Liberals are upset with the system the way it is, because the majority of Albertans prefer a Conservative government.

That’s why there are 74 of us and seven of them.

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041320 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Oil Sands Tailings Ponds Mr. Yankowsky: Thank you, Mr. Spe aker. T he oil sands are in many ways the economic heart of this province, but the environmen- tal impact of these megaprojects is a consideration. Potentially even more significant, however, is the environmental damage that might result should any of the safeguards that protect the environment from the waste gen erated by the oil sands fail.

Ponds t hat hold the hazardous by-product, or tailing s, of the oil sands are often built right next to rivers, separated from them by only a small earth dam. My questions ar e all to the Minister of Environment. What safe- guards are companies required to have in place to ensure that these tailings ponds will not fail? Dr. Taylor: Well, first of a ll, let m e assure the me mber that th e tailings ponds are built only when absolutely necessary, and as the technology improves, we will need fewer and fewer of these tailings ponds. So that’s the first thing.

Secondly, before any tailing pond can be built, it has to receive the approval of Alberta Environment, has to receive the approval of my colleague’s ministry, Sustainable Resource Development, and it has to receive the approval of the Alberta Energy and Util ities Board. All of these hearings are public, so people can participate in these hearings and present their objections to this if they have any. It’s a very open and public process. These tailings ponds are designed by experts, engineers that can do these things.

So it’s, as I say, a very open, public process only done when ne cessary and under the strictest regulations. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Yankowsky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the minister tell this Assembly who would be responsible for the damage that would result should one of these tailings ponds fail or leak and destroy the surrounding environment? Dr. Taylor: Well, Mr. Speaker, it would be the responsibility of the people that built the tailing pond.

As part of the construction of any tailings pond or a big pl ant like that, the company that buil ds it is required to put up a security deposit of some sort. It may be a bond. It may be a lett er of credit, whatever is appro priate. As we move forward, if that company were to fail or didn’t have enough money for whatever reason to r eclaim a tailing s pond if it needed to be reclaimed or in the unlikely event of some failure, then the bond or the letter of credit would be called into effect, and that bond or letter of credit would cover the cost. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Yankowsky: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. To the same minister: who is responsible for reclaiming these ponds back to a healthy state so that they don’t leave a legacy of toxic waste for our children like the Sydney tar ponds? Dr. Taylor: Well, once again, Mr. Speaker, under the act it’s the oil companies’ responsibility. We’re talking about oil companies right here. If it were a chemical company and they had to reclai m something in the are a of the chemical company, it w ould be the chemical company’s responsibility.

Remember that whether it’s a chemical company or an oil company, we do have the bond, we do have the security deposit, and if they were not able to pay for it, that bond or that security deposit would pay for it. It would not come out of Alberta taxpayers’ pockets. Ophthalmology Services in Calgary Dr. Taft: Mr. Speaker, the Liberal opposition has obtained a copy of a letter sent fr om Dr.

Me gran, chair of the Medical Advisory Board of the Calgary health region, to a group of medical specialists in Calgary who have continually raised concerns over the c urrent chief of op hthalmology in t he C algary h ealth region. These physicians have raised their concerns several times that the current chief of ophthalmology is putting his and his family’s business interests ahead of his duties as chief of ophthalmology for the region, and I will table the letter. My questions are to the Minister of Health and Wellness.

Has the minister taken any action to resolve concerns raised by physicians over the current chief of ophthalmology for the Calgary health region? Mr. Mar: Mr. Speake r, the Le ader of t he Opposition w as good enough to provide me with a copy of the letter to which he refers, which, I understand, he will be tabling at the appropria te time. It was diffic ult to read because he I think hi ghlighted a ll of the pertinent, most important portions of it, and by doing so, when he photocopied it, he blacked out much of the portions that I think he wanted to bring to my attention. But let me say t his, Mr. Spea ker.

I r ecognize the issue of the bylaws of the regional health authority as it relates to conflict o f interest. The regional health authority is in the process of revising their conflict-of-interest bylaws, and I th ink that has been larg ely because of the Medical Advisory Board supporting the need to do this, and I thin k that t hat’s appropriate for the regi onal health authority to do. Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. member is making allegations about the allocations of surgery time, allocation of surgery time at the regional health authority is really done by the chiefs and department heads of surgery, who once a year meet, and over the last two years they have discussed the block a llocation process, and they’ve determined to keep it as it is. So, Mr. Speaker, I have looked into this matter, and if the regional health authority thinks that it should change its conflict-of-interest bylaws, I think that’s an appropriate step. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

Will the minister ensure that someone from o utside the Calg ary he alth regi on and prefe rably outside the provinc e invest igates conflict-of-interest alle gations surrounding the current chief of ophthalmology? Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, I haven’t seen any need to do that. I think the regional health authority is doing an appropriate set of steps right now to deal with the issue. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you.

Given that new conflict-of-interest guidelines for the Calgary health region have been sent to the m inister in the past, fairly recently , and more than onc e for appr oval, ca n the minister explain why it is taking him so long to approve them? Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, we’ve had reviews of conflict-of-interest bylaws and bylaws from throughout all of the health regions. One

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1321 can appreciate the magnitude and size of such a job. We ta ke the care to go through it in some fine detail. That’s the reason. It’s as simple as that. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. WorldSkills Trades Competition Mr. Herard: Thank you, Mr. Spe aker. My questions ar e to the Minister of Hum an Resourc es and Em ployment. Sk ills Canada announced today some great news, that Calgary has been chosen as the host city for the 2009 WorldSkills competition. Great work by the bid comm ittee. Now , Mr.

Ministe r, I understa nd that World- Skills brings together youth from around the world to compete and demonstrate the skil ls of their various trades and technologies against some very demanding international standards, but how will hosting this event benefit Albertans? Mr. Dunford: Mr. Speaker, this has been a good week for Calgary: lacrosse with the Calgary Roughneck s and, of c ourse, the “Go , Flames, go” that we’re all so enthused and thrilled about. In terms of benefits there are at least two that we could talk about immediately from WorldSkills.

It would be estimated at this time that there w ould be som ething around 750 competitors – t hey’re going to bring families; there will be coaches; of course, there will be judges – that will come from other countries a nd have t o be housed and fed and all of that in Calgary during those competitions. I’m briefed, Mr. Speaker, that it’s likely to be a benefit of something in the order of $46 million t o Alberta and then, of course, m ore specifically Calgary. The big gest thing is the attention that skilled trades will get through this competition.

I attended the WorldSkills in Montreal in 1999, and if you want to see an Olympic-like event or perhaps even an Oscar-like event, I mean, this is it. They have the parade with the flags. They have at the end the gold, silver, and medal presentations. I mean, this is a big deal. We’ve been trying for many, many years to find a w ay to s how young people in Alberta that there’s great money, there’s a great career, there’s great work in the skilled trades in this province, and we hope that this will take us a long way down the road to proving that. 2:20 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Herard: Thank you, Mr .

Speaker. My f inal question to the same ministe r. I un derstand tha t the provinc ial Skills Canada Alberta competition is currently taking place in Edmonton. How is this event related to the WorldSkills program? Mr. Dunford: Well, again, I think it might be obvious. We’re trying to draw the similarities in the skills competitions to the way they deal with athletics. You know, you have local com petitions, then you move on to provincial competitions, to national competitions, and then of course to world competitions.

So really what’s happening in E dmonton – I thin k i t starts tomorrow, and I would encourage all members to write it into their little agendas to try and get over there, especially members here in Edmonton, that would have perhaps a little better ac cess. I n any event, again, it’s the idea that we spread the skills competition into the high schools and into first-year apprenticeships right across this province, give them a provincial competition to work toward, and then the winne rs will move on t o Winnipeg later this year for the nationals. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Captive Wildlife Standards Ms Blakeman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Near Three Hills, Alberta, the GuZoo anim al farm continues to operate despite significant animal welfare and human safety concerns, which were exposed as long as fiv e years ago. T he permit for this fa rm continues to be renewed on a temporary basis year after year despite the fact that it has not complied with th e majority of recommendations that were issued to it by a n Alberta Environment assessment t eam back in 1999.

My first question is to the Minister of Environment. Why has the government renewed the permit for th is establishment when it has failed for five years to comply with the recommendations from the Alberta Environment assessment team? Dr. Taylor: I think that when we changed the ministries, that has been moved from my ministry to the Ministr y of S ustainable Resource Development. If i t hasn’t, I’ll give you y our answe r, certainly, tomorrow. But I’ll ask the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development to supplement. The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Cardinal: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am aware of the situation that the member is bringing forwar d, and within two weeks I plan to tour the facility personally and personally inspect it to see w hat the iss ue is. In f act, the oppos ition member s are welcome to come with me on a tour if they want. We have nothing to hide. It’s an issue that’s out there, and if it needs to be dealt with, we’ll deal with it at that time. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you.

Aga in to the Minister of Sustai nable Resource Development: will the minister now finalize the updated captive wildlife standards manual before any further zoo permits are issued in the province of Alberta? Mr. Cardinal: Mr. Speaker, again, that’s a good question. As a minister that is responsible for a ministry, we always on an ongoing basis review our policies as we move forward as a government, and I’ll look at this policy . If ther e is a need for change, of course we always do that. Ms Blakeman: I’ll try that again, Mr. Speaker.

The question to the minister was about finalizing the updated captive wildlife standards manual, not a sort of constant re view. When do we g et a final version of this? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Cardinal: Yes, Mr. S peaker. Again, you know , when this process is fina lized, then of c ourse it w ill be ava ilable to the opposition also. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Camrose. Government Accountability Dr. Pannu: Thank you. Mr . Speaker, wh en does a gove rnment

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041322 choose to become accountable? Is it when, after 33 years in power, it becomes secretive, arrogant, and out of touch, or is it when it repeatedly fails to deliver on its promises like cheaper auto insur- ance, lower power costs, or smaller class sizes? My questions are to the Premier. When will the government choose to become account- able for its failure to deliver auto insurance rates on par with public systems in the rest of western Canada? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, as I said previously, we have not finished the exercise.

There is an all-day standing policy committee meeting scheduled for the 27th of May to finalize the reforms. We will then require cabin et and cauc us approval , and then w e can beg in communicating the entire package to the public. All we’re getting now are bits and pieces and dribs and drabs, I guess, that are being unfortunately leaked or somehow obtained outside of SPC meetings that indicate to the media that this is going to be government policy when in fact there is no government policy relative to the regulations surrounding insurance at this time.

I would say to the injury lawyers and t he ins urance companies who are running ads battling each other and battling the government and to the NDs and the Liberals to stay cool and stay calm and stay tuned, because we will deal wi th this issue and we will c ome out with a policy paper relative to the regulations shortly after the 27th of May. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speak er. When will the government choose to become accountable for the failure of its deregula tion policy to deliver lower e lectricity costs to home owners and busi- nesses? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, I forget how the question was framed, but immediately we’ll become accountable for deregulation. As to why we w ill be and are accountable, I’ll have the hon. minister explain. Mr. Smith: Mr. Speaker, that’s a very good question, because in fact accountability always starts at the ons et. In 1994 when the first discussion about deregulation or creating a competitive market for electrical generation came through, it was estimated that we would not need the pow er that w e’re using today unti l 2014.

S o it’s a record of this Premier’s policies on balanced budgets and reduced debt coupled with the ability to deliver a fundamental underpinning for economic growth called electricity which is the reason why we’re the most prosperous province in the dominion of Canada today. Dr. Pannu: My final supplementary to the Prem ier, Mr. Speaker: when will the government choose to take responsibility for failing to fund the Learning Commission recommendations for reducing class sizes? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, I will take most of that question under advisement and have the hon. minister respond in more detail when he is present in the Legislature, but I can tell the hon. member that we have begun the process of undertaking the recommendations of the Learning Commission. I’m not sure how many were rejected. Mr. Hancock: Two were rejected. Mr. Klein: Two recommendations were rejected. I think that they referred to admini stration more than anything else. But all of the other recommendations and particularly those recommendations as they affect th e class room, classr oom size and so on, have been adopted, Mr.

Speaker. It’s just a matter of im plementing those recommendations over a period of time. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Camrose, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Innovation Strategy Mr. Johns on: Thank y ou, Mr. S peaker. This government has launched four pillars that provide a plan for this province to guide it for the next 20 years. One of these pillars is “unlea shing innova- tion,” and i t’s no secret that our advantage above all and other jurisdictions rests upon us un leashing innovation to its greatest potential.

A s chair of the Albe rta Rese arch Council I find it extremely important that this province develop the components of an integrated, province-wide innovation system, identify specific value- added opportunities, and align its policies to support this st rategy. My questions are to the Minister of Economic Development. What is the minister doing to develop such a strategy? 2:30 Mr. Norris: Well, Mr. Speaker, I’d like to thank the hon. member for not onl y h is question but his involve ment in A SRA.

A s he knows, we had a joint meeting in Calgary recently with the board of directors of AEDA, the Alberta Economic Development Authority, and ASRA to talk a bout specifically these kinds of issues. It was determined with the hon. Minister of Innovation and Science that we do need a go-forward plan, and as such we’ve rele ased the value- added strategy. That was done about a week and a half ago. What it calls for primarily, Mr.

Speaker, is to seize the opportunity that we have right now with a remarkable economy and to look at how we will work with industry, clearly not telling them how to do it, because tha t’s not the w ay we operate in this gov ernment, to understand and identif y what the barr iers are to value a dded and unleashing innovation. To that end, of course, as I said, the strategy was rele ased a bout a wee k and a hal f ago. I am s ure the hon. member has a copy, and I would be happy to discuss it further with him at any time, as I would with any member of the House. Mr.

Johnson: Securing Tomorrow’s Promise I believe is the name of this plan that you talk about. How does it further the opportuni- ties available for rural Albertans such as those in my constituency? Mr. Norris: Well, I mean, this is really the remarkable part of the program, Mr. Speaker, in that we have a rural development strategy that was co-chaired by the hon. Member for Innisfail-Sylvan Lake and the h on. Member for Wain wright, and it tal ks abo ut so me remarkable opportunities.

The agriculture department, quite frankly, under the curre nt minister has done a rem arkable job identif ying their particular program, which is called 20-10 by 2010, which refers to $20 billion in manufactured products and $10 billion in primary products by the year 2010. Very, very aggressive targets but it does look at it. What we are trying to do, to answer the hon. member’s question, with rural A lberta le aders and i ndustry is understand what t heir barriers are to v alue adding specifically in agric ulture but also in forestry. To that end, the hon.

Member for Dunvegan and I the other day went up t o a forestry conference to talk about value-added strategies in their particular industry. I know that t he Member for Airdrie-Rocky View has a very signifi cant val ue-added f orestry opportunity. So the long and short of it is, Mr. Speaker, that what we are doing is what we’ve always done, which is consult with industry. Whether

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1323 it’s located in rural or urban Alberta does not matter to us one iota. It’s about jobs for Albertans, and it’s about where the opportunities are, and we will continue to work with rural Alberta and the leaders to find out what the opportunities are. The Speaker: The hon. member. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, followed by the hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills. Pure Lean Inc. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The now-closed Pure Lean plant near Oyen did not go through all the steps of inspection.

An NRCB decision report completed on August 28, 2003, illustrates that the NRCB and Alberta Environment decisions were fast-tracked. My first question is to the Minister of Environment. Given that the report states, quote, this propos al was exem pt fro m the A lberta Environment provisions related to the design of facilities, approvals, and notifications, end of quote, can the minister please explain why? Dr. Taylor: Well, Mr. S peaker, Pure Lean was coming with new technology.

Most hog farms have technology that puts hogs in a real tight spac e and rea l small pens, and Pure Lean was coming with some n ew tec hnology. T here we re big pens , and they handle d manure in a different fashion. In fact, the fellow, Bob Notenbomer, that developed the Pure Lean technology is a constituent of mine. It was ne w technol ogy, s o some of the old reg ulations didn’t necessarily fit the new technology. As the program moves forward, of course, it’s ultimately the NRCB t hat decides, a nd Alberta Environment works closely with NRCB as it moves forward. Mr.

MacDonald: Again to the same minister: is it common practice to fast-track applications for intensive livestock operations by not having Alberta Environment st udies completed at the time of an NRCB decision? Dr. Taylor: Mr. Speaker, really the only thing we’re involved with is the water decisions around th e appr ovals of intensive livestock. With any intensive livestock decision they have to apply for a water licence, and there’s a full approval process, and on a water licence there is an appeal process as well.

That’s a decision that’s made by a director, and there is the Environmental Appeal Board that people can appeal to. The one that’s got the most press recently certainly is the Capstone one in Red Deer, where a director made a decision that was appealed. With the inten sive live stock we are only involved at the w ater licensing level. There i s a p rocess for the water licence, and that process is appealable to the Environmental Appeal Board. Mrs. McClellan: Mr.

Speaker, I want to just make a clarification so that there is an understanding in the Hous e that this project began prior to the new Agricultural Operat ion Practices Act being intro- duced and the NRCB taking over the handling of intensive livestock. The developm ent perm it for tha t project w as provide d by the municipality, and Alberta Agriculture was involved to some extent at that tim e. The N RCB came into the pic ture on thi s particular project over an i ssue on com posting some time down the roa d.

I don’t want to leave the impression that this was approved under the present legislation and operation of the NRCB. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you. This time to the minister of agricul- ture if she’s willing: what role did Alberta Agriculture play in the development, then, of the Pure Lean plant near Oyen. What exactly was their role? Mrs. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my earlier supple- mental answer, it was the municipality who granted the approval for this operation, a s was the practice at tha t time.

Any support that Alberta Agriculture would have would be of a tech nical n ature to provide technical assistance to, one, the municipality, if it was asked for, and/or to the proponents and to look at different aspects of the operation. Again, Mr. Speak er, this w as prior to t he NRCB a ssuming responsibility for the Agricultural Operation Practices Act. The Speaker: Hon. members, before we participate in Recognitions, there are a num ber of ite ms that I’d like all members to observe . First of all, let me call on the hon. Deputy Speaker. Legislative Assembly Pages Mr. Tannas: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, the Deputy Chairman and I would like to draw to the attention of all hon. members that we are going to lose five of our wonderful pages when this spring session ends. They are Maya Gordon, Greg Andrews, Andrea Balon, Natalie Wilson, and Lara Kinkartz. These fine young people will be leaving their duties in this Assem bly fol lowing the c lose of the spring session, whenever that might occur. I ask all hon. members to join me in recognizing the great efforts of our pages, who daily showed patience and understanding of our many demands. They carry out their tasks with attention to duty and in good humour.

Oh behalf of all hon. members I would ask our head page, Maya Gordon, to give each retiring page our gift and with it our best w ishes to each and everyone. We are honoured to hav e had you work with us in the Alberta Legislature. 2:40 The Speaker: Hon. members, these are remarkable young people. They sent me a letter dated May 10, 2004 . The subject is retiring pages, and it’s addressed to me, but it’s addressed to all of you. I’d like to read it to you. It says: Mr. Speaker, The Page Recruitment posters state “Get More Than a Job”, and nothing could be more true.

We can say, without a doubt, we all received more than a job. To us, our tim e at the Legislature i s also a les son in l ife and politics that no university, however well funded, could provide. It c ould also be thought of as a social life for a busy student, mee ting like-minded pe ers that we sh all hopefully keep in contact with for years to com e. Even when nothing else, our time here was entertaining, and perhaps it is a pity that Question Period is not broadcast during prime time.

We believe there is a popular misconception within the public that politicians are to be superhuman, and as Pages, this misconcep- tion was corrected quite fast. Indeed, the members of the House are very much real people; real people with real gifts, flaws, and quirks. By observing them, we see that it is quite possible for real people to do great things with th eir lives, and stands a s an inspirat ion for ourselves to aim higher t han we might hav e previously thought possible.

There is no am ount of thanks tha t wou ld truly express our gratitude to yo u, the Se rgeant at Ar ms, and al l mem bers o f the Assembly for the opportunity to work among the honourable people of this prestigious building. Indeed, being a Page is an invaluab le experience that will hold worthwhile throughout our entire lives. If every citizen of this provin ce was as i nformed as we are now, parliamentary democracy in Alberta wou ld certa inly be bet ter served. Although such is impossible, it is now our duty to use our

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041324 knowledge of the political process to improve society in whatever path we chose. For nearly a century, the laughter and footsteps of Pages has crisscrossed through this building, and we truly are blessed to have been able to experience every moment in the Alberta Legislature. Thank you, and everyone, for this unique and wonderful opportu- nity. Farewell, and please don’t forget about us!

Greg Andrews, Maya Gordon, Andrea Balon, Natalie Wilson, and Lara Kinkartz. [applause] Hon. members, I’d also draw to your atten tion that in the latter part of the 20th century, the very, very late part of the 20th century, the hon. Member for Banff-Cochrane came into the world. Happy birthday. Now might we revert briefly to Introduction of Guests? [Unanimous consent granted] head: Introduction of G uests (reversion) The Speaker: Then the hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. Mr. McClelland: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

At the request of one of our soon to be departing pages, Natalie Wilso n, it’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to other members of the House two constituents who are seated in the members’ gallery. Angela Bentley and Felicia Mathison are both attendin g th e University of Alberta, Fac ulty of Science. They both received academic excellence awards and Rutherford scholarships. We’d ask them to stand and receive the recognition of the House. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Dunvegan. Mr. Goudreau: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it’s my pleasure to reintroduce to you and through you to the members of the Assembly our group from Lloyd Garrison school at Berwyn who are here observing the workings of the Legislature. It’s my pleasure to welcome Rob Hoban, the teacher, and Ms Shaunna Regal, a teacher that’s accompanying the group, as well as parent helpers Mrs. Suzie Reyda, Mr. Bruce Warren, Mrs. Sa ndra Eastm an, Mrs. G reit Heimstra, Mrs. Kim Alexander, and Mrs. Gwen Sukeroff. Certainly, they’ve travelled a long way to be w ith us today, and I would ask them to rise a nd recei ve the tr aditional w arm w elcome of this Assembly.

The Speaker: The hon. Mem ber for Edm onton-Centre, and the n would you carry right on with your recognition. Ms Blakeman: Happy to. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to intro duce to you and thro ugh you to al l members of the Assembly a great teacher and artist who is largely responsible for the strong reputation of the theatre design

section of the University of Alberta fine ar ts department, David Lovett. You will he ar more about him directly. With him is one of his students and an award- winning designer in his own r ight, Robert Shannon. I would ask them both to please rise and accept the trad itional welcome of the Assembly. head: Recognit ions David Lovett Ms Blakeman: Mr. Speaker, it is my very great pleasure to recog- nize David Lovett for his contribution to Edmonton’s and Alberta’s theatres, opera, and ballet.

As we anticipate his retirement from the renowned University of Alberta fine arts theatre design program, we can be thankful that David chose in 1969 to emigrate and take a job teaching here. He went off to UBC in 1972, but Tom Peacocke, then department chair, wooed him back in 1976 to teach theatre design.

David has also designed fo r Theatre 3 and Phoenix T heatre in E dmonton, designed the production of Romeo and Juliet which opened the new Citadel Theatre in 1976, and designed numerous productions at the Banff Centre f or the opera and balle t se ctions and f or Albert a Ballet’s first Nutcracker and Firebird. We ev en loaned him to Stratford Festival. David also design ed the first produ ction o f South Pacific for Edmonton Opera. The second production was recently designed by his student Robert Shannon. “More, better, faster , grow ,” was David’s favourite instruction. Thank you, Mr.

Lovett, for bringing us such fabulous des igns. You enriched your students, the artists, and the fans of theatre, opera, and ballet. Thank you so much for your contribution. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Bonnyville-Cold Lake. National Nursing Week Mr. Ducharme: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to recognize Nursing Week, which will be celebrated May 10 to May 16, 2004, across Canada as well as internationally.

The theme for this year is Nursing: Knowledge and Commitment at Work, which is reflective of the fact that care provided by nurses is knowledge-based and that nurses deal wi th i ncreasingly c omplex cases a nd issues in the workplace. Registered nurses make a difference. They play an important role in our health and in our communities. They are dedicated, compas- sionate, caring, and make a very important contribution to our health care system.

Nurses are appreciated, and I hope that by my rising today in the Legislature, the people of Alberta will take a moment to thank nurses for the job they do 365 days a year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Camrose. Leaders of Tomorrow Awards Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to recognize the recipients of the leade rs of to morrow awards hand ed ou t in my constituency recently.

The aw ards are designed t o honou r young people in the com munity that stand out in th eir efforts to make a difference by volunt eerism and s ervice to individuals i n their community in general. Awards were handed out in both Camrose and Wetask iwin, and the recipients were well deserving. Out of 33 outstanding nominees from the Camrose cerem ony the leaders o f tomor row were Ry an Koehli, Jen Ross, Jarett Rude, and Kelsey Syrnyck. In Wetaskiwin there were 22 nominees, and the winners of the awards were Katrine Maygard, Rachael King, and Melissa Henke.

It gives me great pleasure to congratulate the nominees and award recipients for the contributions they make to our communities and for the important work they do as volunteers. They are the leaders of today, and t heir services and generosity will surely make them leaders of tomorrow. It is with great pride that I recognize my young constituents today and wish them continuing success on their way to a promising future. Thank you.

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1325 Alberta Summer Games Mr. Tannas: Mr. Speaker, today it is my pleasure to recognize the great efforts of volunteers in High River, Ok otoks, and the MD of Foothills who are hosting Alberta’s 2004 Summer Games from July 22 to July 25. Volunteer committee members Diane, Ellen, Carol, Shawn, Doug, Le e, Marg, Traci, and countless others are eagerly preparing to host teams and visitors from across Alberta.

Teams will compete in events as d iverse as badminton, baseball, BMX, canoeing, golf, ba sketball, football, soccer, softball, rugby, swim- ming, athletics, field hockey, and many more sporting endeavours. Mr. Speaker, all Albertans are invited to attend. Information and details are available by calling (403) 652-3005 or th rough the web site www.albertagames.com. I hope to see you all there. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. National Nursing Week Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

From May 10 to May 16 Canadians across the country are getting together to celebrate National Nursing Week. Nurses are the front-line workers in our health care s ystem and are dedic ated to r estoring, m aintaining, and improv ing the quality of life for all Canadians. From delivering community health programs to providing life-saving care in hospital situations, nurses are involved in many aspects of their patients’ well-being. In 1985 the Canadian Minister of Health established National Nursing Week to recognize the many contributions of the nursing profession to the health of Canadians.

Every year National Nursing Week falls on the second w eek in Ma y to coincide with Florence Nightingale’s birthday on May 12. This year the them e for Na tional Nursi ng Week is Nursing : Knowledge and Commitme nt at Work. Nurses are working in an increasingly complex environment, and to best serve their patients, nurses need to stay up to date on the latest research and technology. The theme this year recognizes the commitment of nurses to provide the best car e possible by combining new inf ormation with mor e traditional best practices and lessons learned. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Cardston-Taber-Warner. 2:50 Apex Youth Awards Mr. Jacobs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure today to rise in this Assembly to recognize four outstanding young individuals from my constituency. On Wedne sday, April 7, Meli ssa Kr izsan, Gloria Layton, Virginia Layton, and Kristen Reti were honoured as winners at the third annual Apex youth awards. These awards were created to recognize remarkable young citizens and are hosted each year by the Rotary Club of Taber and the Taber Times.

The Apex award s are uni que beca use the y d o not focus on athletics or academ ics but rather a cknowledge ext raordinary individuals who illust rate dedic ation and c ommitment to s erving their communities. T hese are exceptional individuals that un self- ishly dedicate their time and effort to helping others. Mr. Speaker, I ask that members of the Assembly join with me in congratulating the four winners of the Apex youth awards and the 21 nominees for their excepti onal s ervice and dedicat ion to their communities. Thank you very much. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-West.

Art from the Heart Ms Kryczka: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last Friday, on May 7, the Rotary Club of Calgary Sarcee hosted its sixth annual Art from the Heart dinner and auc tion at the R ed & White Club at McMahon Stadium. Over 400 people attended the very successful, fun event.

What is amazing about Rotary Sarcee Club is that it is one of the youngest and smallest in Calgary, but the 25 members are confident that if they indeed raise their goal of $40,000, they will have raised $235,000 in total to be nefit many worthwhile projects, including Salvation Army Children’s Village, Closer to Home Community Services, and Rotary Challenger Park. This year the money raised will provide the YWCA’s Mary Dover House, an emergency residence for wom en and childre n in need, with an urgently needed community kitchen.

In 2002 Mary Dover House provided shelter for 1,800 women an d 422 children w ho required crisis or transitional accommodation. First Calgar y Sa vings, the YWCA, and Ern est Manni ng high school volunteer club also provided support to the fundraiser. My husband, Gord May , and I are proud t o be members of t he Rotary Sarcee Club, and I heartily congratulate this Little Club That Could and did and continues to do so. Thank you. head: Intro duc tion o f Bills The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance. Bill 32 Appropriation Act, 2004 Mrs. Nelson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I request leave to introduce Bill 32, the Appropriation Act, 2004. This being a money bill, Her Honour the Honourable the Lieut enant Gov ernor, hav ing been informed of the c ontents of t his bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Motion carried; Bill 32 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Bill 211 Alberta Personal Income Tax (School Tax Credit) Amendment Act, 2004 Mr. Vandermeer: Thank y ou, Mr. Speak er. I reque st leav e to introduce a bill being the Alberta Personal Income Tax (School Tax Credit) Amendment Act, 2004. It gives me great pleasure to introduce this bill.

Its purpose is to amend th e Alber ta Perso nal Inco me Tax Act by introdu cing a nonrefundable tax cr edit t o help parents pay f or additional c osts associated with education worth 50 per cent of the costs t o a maximum of $3,000 whi ch would be available to parents with children enrolled within a primary or secondary school. The credit could be used w hether children are a ttending public , separate, or independent schools. Pare nts who hom e-school w ould also be eligible for the c redit, and it could also be used for tutoring ex - penses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 211 read a first time]

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041326 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Camrose. Bill 212 Alberta Association of Former M.L.A.s Act Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 212, the Alberta Association of Former M.L.A.s Act. This bill will create a nonpartisan association of former Members of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta. This association would be able to use its knowledge and experience to pr omote the ideals of parliamentary democracy in Alberta and throughout the Common- wealth. Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 212 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Bill 214 Public Automobile Insurance Commission Act Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a bill being Public Automobile Insurance Commission Act, otherwise to be referred to as Bill 214. Mr. Speaker , this bill c alls for the appointme nt of a public automobile insurance commission, its function being to review existing legislation governing automobile insurance, to hold public hearings, and t o make pr oposals t o the Legisl ative Assemb ly regarding the implementation of public automobile insuranc e in Alberta. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 214 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview. Bill 215 Alberta Official Folk Dance Act Mr. Yan kowsky: Thank y ou, Mr. Speak er. I reque st leav e to introduce a bill being Bill 215, the Alberta Official Folk Dance Act. Mr. Speaker, the bill asks for square dancing to be declared as the official dance of Alberta. [Motion carried; Bill 215 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Bill 216 Low-cost Electricity for Alberta Act Mr. MacDonald: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

I request leave to please introduce a bill being the Low-cost Electricity for Alberta Act. This bill will be known as Bill 216. It will recognize that electricity should be treated as an essential service and not a commodity subject to radical price swings, and it will implement a manner in which we can once and for all unplug this province from electricity deregulation. Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 216 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. Bill 217 Government Accountability (Identification of Expenditures) Amendment Act, 2004 Mr. Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In recent years Albertans have seen continuous rising in our public expenditure. However, myself and my constituents are concerned with the creeping effect of budget increases. Bill 217, that I’m introducing today, is to provide a mechanism fo r the gove rnment de partments to impr ove their accountability for each budget increase over the prior year. Eac h budget increase should be justified, account for its purpose, and be tracked and reported for its results. The Speaker: I would sincerely ask the hon. member to move first reading. Mr. Cao: Yes.

I request leave to introduce this bill being Bill 217, the Government Accou ntability (Identific ation o f Exp enditures) Amendment Act, 2004. [Motion carried; Bill 217 read a first time] head: Tabling R eturns and R eports The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Community Development. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two quick tablings. My first is a tabli ng of a l etter to Mr . Bob N icholson, p resident of Hockey Canada, co ngratulating him and all members of H ockey Canada for a sec ond straight gold me dal win a t the 2004 Worl d Hockey Championships in Prague, Czechoslovakia.

I mi ght note that Team Canada has done its part for the country, and we all wish the same for the Fl ames: to do their par t for the provinc e in the Stanley Cup. I’m sure they will. My second tabling is to Mr. Brad Banister, president and general manager of the Ca lgary Roughnecks lacrosse club, cong ratulating them on winning the 2004 Champion’s Cup. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 3:00 The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On behalf of the hon. the Premier, who indicated in question period the other day and again today that he would table the appropriate number of copies of his paper Allende, Pinochet and the Chilean Media in response particu- larly to the misapprehensi on of what was said in Hansard, which was that as a dictator he , meani ng Pinochet, w as no be tter than Allende. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre on behalf of. Ms Blakeman: I have two tablings, and one is on behalf of. Thank you.

The one on behalf of my colleague from Edmonton-Riverview is the appropriate number of copies of the letter that he referred to, which is on the is sues of conflict of interest in the op hthalmology department and the Calgary regional health authority. The second i s docume nts that I referr ed to duri ng on e of my questions, that being five copies of concer ns r aised by Zoocheck Canada on the GuZoo f acility, includ ing so me ve ry distr essing photographs of how animals are being treated. Thank you very much.

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1327 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. Mr. Bo nner: Thank y ou very much, Mr. Speaker . With y our permission I would like to table the appropriate number of copies on behalf of the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar – this is under the Financi al Administrat ion Act – of Treas ury Board d irective 14/98, and it was da ted at Edm onton, Albert a, the 16th day of December 1998. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Ms Carlson: Thank you very much.

I would like on behalf of the Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar to table the appropriate number of copies of a m emo outlining all the concerns t he Auditor General raised regarding the need f or detaile d documenta tion to support ministers’ ex pense reim bursements. This came from a deputy minister to cabinet ministers. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I ris e on behalf of my hon. colleague from Edmonton-Highlands to table two letters.

The first letter is addressed to the Premier from hundreds of members of the Chilean community expressing their outrage at the “offensi ve, disrespectful, and inaccurate remarks” made here in the Assembly the other day by the Premier concerning the terrible events in Chile in 1973. Mr. Speaker, the second tabling is a letter dated May 7, 2 004, written by Leo Campos Aldunez to the Edmonton Journal. The letter again is as king the Premier to apologize to the thousands of Canadians of Chilean ancestry who fled their homeland because of the brutality of Pinochet’s dictatorship. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Human Resources and Employ- ment. Mr. Dunford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings, annual reports. The f irst is the annual report for 2003 of APEG GA, the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists of Alberta. The second tabling is the financial statements dated June 30, 2003, for the Certified Management Accountants of Alberta. head: Orders of t he Day head : Written Ques tions The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you. Mr.

Speak er, proper noti ce having been given o n Thursday, May 6, it’s m y pleasure to move that written questions 67, 70, 74, and 82 through 88 be dealt with today. There being no further written questions, there are none to stand and retain their places. [Motion carried] Trade Director’s Dinner Q67. Ms Carlson moved on behal f of M s Blake man that the following question be accepted. What was the government purpose that resulted in the trade director for Mexico, Central America, and Caribbean charg- ing $226 to the Alberta taxpayer at the Four Seasons restau- rant on September 30, 2002? The Speaker: The hon.

Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On beha lf of the hon. Minister of Economic Development I’m pleased to indicate that we are prepared to accept Written Question 67. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to close the debate. Ms Carlson: Thank you. We thank the minister for that and wish that that could happen with all of the written questions we’ve asked. [Written Question 67 carried] Utilities Service Quality Plans Q70. Mr. Bonner mov ed on behalf of Mr. Mac Donald that the following question be accepted.

What established service quality benchmarks is the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board using to ensure quality customer service following its December 19, 2003, announcement to implement service quality plans for regulated gas and electric rate tariff provid ers and elect ric-wire owner s effective January 1 , 2004, and how w ere these benchma rks dete r- mined? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Energy. Mr. Smith: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Although this ministry is responsible for the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board, it of course does not direct the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board.

In that light, there has b een discussion between the m inistry and the utilities board. Of cours e, i t is we ll known t hat the bulk of this information is found in abundance in the public domain. Recogniz- ing the reduced assets of a party that’s moving from seven to five, we will be very pleased t o ensure tha t the EUB c an pro vide this information for them. Mr. Bonner: Well, I’d like to thank the minister for his co-operation in providing that information and certainly inform him that the five that are here plus the other person that I think he referred to is here as well to keep him accountable.

Thank you. [Written Question 70 carried] Utility Companies’ Performance Reports Q74. Mr. Bonner mov ed on behalf of Mr. Mac Donald that the following question be accepted. How often are utility companies in Alberta required to submit performance reports? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Energy. Mr. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not going to spend a great deal of ti me talking about t he inadequacy of the question; i n fact, what type of performance report? What factors shoul d it cover ? How would they define the word “performance”? How would they define the word “report”?

But to be extremely, as usual, charitable

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041328 and transparent and account able, I w ill answ er the ques tion b y saying that the util ity companies provide the Energy and Utilities Board with qu arterly repor ts once ev ery thr ee months on their customer quality of service plans. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. Mr. Bonner: Yes. On behalf of the M ember for Edmonton-Gold Bar I’d like to thank the minister for his response. [Written Question 74 carried] 3:10 Tuition Fee Policy Q82. Mr. Bonner moved on behalf of Dr. Massey that the following question be accepted.

What measures has t he government taken to i mplement the Auditor General’s recommendation contained in hi s 2002- 2003 annual report that the Department of Learning measure whether the tuition f ee policy and its related programs are effective in making postsecondary education affordab le to students? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Ms Evans: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m privileged to respond on behalf of the hon. Minister of Lear ning and indicate that the government is prepared to accept Written Question 82. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. Mr. Bonner: Yes.

I’d like to thank the Minister of Learning for that response. Thank you. [Written Question 82 carried] Tuition Fee Policy Q83. Mr. Bonner moved on behalf of Dr. Massey that the following question be accepted. What measures has t he government tak en to impl ement the Auditor General’s recommendation contained in hi s 2002- 2003 annual report that the Depar tment of Learning require public postsecondary institutions to comply with the tuition fee policy? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Ms Evans: Thank you.

Once again on be half of the Ministe r of Learning I’m pre pared to res pond, in dicating th e gover nment’s willingness to accept Written Question 83. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. Mr. Bonner: Yes. Once again I’d like to thank the minister for his co-operation. [Written Question 83 carried] Department of Learning Grant Processes Q84. Mr. Bonner moved on behalf of Dr. Massey that the following question be accepted.

What measures has the government taken to implement the Auditor General’s recommendation contained in his 2002- 2003 annual report that the Department of Learning improve its grant proc esses by not approving the mone y bef ore defining the natu re and ex tent of the grant commitment or establishing accountability criteria? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Ms Evans: Thank you. I’ll respond and indicate that the g overn- ment is willing and prepared to accept Written Question 84. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry to close the debate. Mr.

Bonner: Once again we’d like to thank the minister for his co- operation on this particular issue. [Written Question 84 carried] Management of Parks and Protected Areas Q85. Ms Carlson moved on behalf of Ms Blakeman that the following question be accepted. What measures has the Ministry of Community Development taken to conduct an evaluat ion of the c ost effectiveness of “service deli very alt ernatives” t o ma naging parks and protected areas to correct serious flaws in its implementation as indi cated in the Auditor General’s 2002-2003 annual report? The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr.

Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to indicate that I’m prepared to accept this question with amendments, which I’ll get into shortly. Those a mendments, of c ourse, were shared with the opposition prior to 11 this morning as per procedures. Now, as to the amendment, Mr. Speaker, I have r eviewed this question quite carefully, and in the interest of trying to respond to it accurately, I’m proposing that we do amend the question t o more accurately reflect the specific recommendations made by the Auditor General. I believe those amendments have been circulated. I should also take this opportunity, Mr.

Speaker, to briefly explain the rationale for thes e minor changes to the question i n order to better reflect t he ex act wording u sed spe cifically by the A uditor General as opposed to the wording used by the hon. Mem ber for Edmonton-Centre, which I think will be helpful in considering the question. The change in wording from “to managing” to read “for operat- ing” reflects what we are considering here as better ways to operate our sites and not alternatives to parks an d protected areas manage- ment altogether. Secondly, Mr.

Speaker, nowhere in the Auditor General’s report is it sug gested t hat there a re serious flaw s, as the Member for Edmonton-Centre has indicated in the original wording. In fact, the parks agency is merely looking at better way s to evaluate the cost effectiveness of service deli very alt ernatives and to get the best possible service for Albertans.

That having been said, I’m pleased to amend Written Question 85, and it would now read as follows: What measures has the Ministry of Community Development taken to conduct an eval uation of the cost effectiveness of “ service delivery a lternatives” for ope rating parks and protecte d areas as recommended in the Auditor General’s 2002-2003 annual report? Thank you.

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1329 The Speaker: On the amendment, the hon. Member for Edmonton- Ellerslie. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It comes as no surprise to us that the minister wouldn’t accept a written question that indicated that his department had serious flaws in it, so we are not surprised at the amendment but, in fact, are please d that he would at least consider this written question. So we are in suppor t of the written question as he has amended it. [Motion on amendment carried] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to close the debate. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We appreciate it whenever we can get inform ation from this government, so w e thank the minister for this. [Written Question 85 as amended carried] Park Management Contracts Q86. Ms Carlson m oved on beh alf of Ms Blake man that the following question be accepted. What measures has the Ministry of Community Development taken to implement the changes to the proces s for awarding and monitoring park management contracts to private opera- tors as recom mended in the Audi tor Ge neral’s 2002-2003 annual report to ensure that taxpayers’ dollars are not being wasted? The Speaker: The hon.

Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, M r. Speaker. I wi ll accep t Written Question 86 with amendments. I would just indicate to the House that the am endment, as I wi ll read short ly, was share d with the opposition prior to 11 a.m . today as required by procedures of the House.

Now, specifically to Written Question 86 I should just point out again that in order to fairly and accurately represent what the Auditor General’s recommendations were and in particular as they relate to the question here before us, I need to explain briefly the rationale for the changes that I’m suggesting for the House’s consideration to the original motion. Again, what we’re talking about here, hon. members, is making improvements, not making dramatic changes, hence the need for the question to be amended.

Secondly, once again for all members’ ears, I would ask people in the House to please choose their words as carefully as possible, because in fact no taxpayer dollars are being wasted anywhere in our provincial parks or ou r protected areas. Tho se dollars that come from taxpayers that a re allocated to those a reas, Mr. Speaker, are being stretched to the max, and they certainly are not being wasted.

That having been said, we are loo king to improve some of the processes, and therefore I would move that Written Question 86 be amended to now read as follows: What measures has the Ministry of Community Development taken to improve the process for awarding and monitoring park manage- ment contracts to private operators as recommended in the Auditor General’s 2002-2003 annual report? Thank you. Ms Carlson: Mr.

Speaker, this minister and I are never going to agree on whether or not this government is responsible for wasting taxpayer dollars, but we will accept the amendments. [Motion on amendment carried] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to close the debate. 3:20 Ms Carlso n: Mr. Speake r, we’d l ike to thank the mini ster for providing the information to us. [Written Question 86 as amended carried] Commission on Learning Class-size Recommendations Q87. Mr. Bonner moved on behalf of Dr. Massey that the follow- ing question be accepted.

What progress has the government made and what measures have been put in pla ce to im plement all th e cla ss-size recommendations of the Alberta Commission on Learning? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Ms Evans: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will respond and indicate that the government is prepared to accept Written Question 87. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry to close the debate. Mr. Bonner : Thank you. W e appr eciate t he inform ation being supplied by the minister. [Written Question 87 carried] Utilities Disconnections Q88. Mr. Bonner mov ed on behalf of Mr.

Mac Donald that the following question be accepted. How much money has the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board distributed to energy customers whose utilities were discon- nected in error between January 1, 2004, and March 9, 2004? Mr. Smith: Well, Mr. Speaker, I just feel this afternoon that my life is an open book, and as s uch and in the spirit of such transparency we’ll of course accept again the question. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. Mr. Bonner: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, for this opportunity to inform the minister that we certainly appreciate his co-operation. [Written Question 88 carried] The Speaker: Well, that clears that

section of the Order Paper. head: Motions for Retur ns The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speak er. Proper notic e having been served on Th ursday, May 6, it’s m y pleasure to move that motions for returns appearing on today’s Order Paper do stand and retain their places with the exception of motions 88 through 105, 108 through 123, 128, 134 through 143, 146 through 162, 164 through

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041330 168, 174 through 180, 183 thr ough 205, 207, 208, 209, and 210. Thank you. [Motion carried] Capital Plan Transfer of Funds M88. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a retu rn showing the total doll ar amount broken dow n by transaction of funds transferred into a nd out of the capital plan between April 1, 2003, and February 17, 2004. Mrs. Nelson: Mr. Speaker, the answer is nil, and therefore we have to reject. I think the hon. member is referring to something else. We don’t transfer money in and out of the capital plan at all.

If she is talking about something else, maybe the capital accounts, then she might want to phone m e and I’d be delighted t o give he r the

summary, but we would have to reject this motion as it’s written. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to conclude the debate. Ms Carlso n: Thank y ou, Mr. Speak er. We will request that information from you. Thank you for that. We stand corrected. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 88 lost] Fiscal Stability Fund Transfers M89. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return sho wing the total dollar amount brok en down by transaction of funds transferred into and out of the A lberta fiscal stability fund between April 1, 2003, and February 17, 2004. Mrs. Nelson: Again, Mr.

Spea ker, I thi nk we’re onto a dif ferent track. We don’t have a stability fund in the province of Alberta, so we’re going to have to reject the motion for a return. I’m gathering – and I’m making an assumption – that she’s probably referring to the sustainability fund. Aga in I’ll make the same offer. If that ’s what you’re looking for, just giv e me a call and I ’ll provide the information. But we have to reject the motion as it’s written. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to close the debate. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will reword that motion and forward it to you.

Th ank yo u for ag reeing to provide the information. [Motion for a Return 89 lost] Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development IT Initiatives M90. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total dollar amount spent on information technology initiatives within the Department and Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development broken down by initiative for the fiscal year 2002-2003. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Sustainable Resource Develop- ment. Mr. Cardinal: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the Deputy Premier I accept Motion for a Return 90.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’re very pleased to get the answer to this question. I believe I asked a similar question to other ministries last week and was denied, so thank you very much. [Motion for a Return 90 carried] Drilling in Parks and Protected Areas M91.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total number of oil and gas wells drilled within 25 kilometres of a park or protecte d area in A lberta between January 1, 1985, and Februa ry 17, 2004, br oken down by the type of well and the number of wells drilled for each year. Ms Carlson: This becomes quite critical information when we’re talking about managing the wild and protected areas of our province and particularly in terms of managing wildlife corridors and habitat. So I am hoping that the government will provide this information to us. Mr. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, we’ll not be able to provide that informa- tion; therefore, we’re accepting the re jection mode of questioning here. In f act, the A lberta Energy and Utilities Board infor mation service collection offers a huge, huge amount of data on oil, gas, and oil sands drilling and well information. We’re rejecting the request not, certainly, out of a mean heart or more work; we’re just rejecting it in the fact that we don’t think the question is in fact answerable, because we cannot be sure that th e exact information the member is seeking is available from the board in the fo rm she desires.

For exam ple, the number and the size of parks and protected areas have changed considerably since 1985 as this government has mo ved forward to fulf ill its com mitment of protecting well over 12 per cent of the available land base. I know that after the next elected event in which she participates, the member is going to have ample time to be able to do a great deal of research in finding the answer to this question. Ms Carlson: Well, Mr. Speaker, the sarcasm does not become him. That information is av ailable. We know that it is.

We w ill pu t another motion for a return on the Order Paper, then, asking for that information by spec ific y ear, and pe rhaps he coul d answe r the question at that point in time. [Motion for a Return 91 lost] Drilling in Urban Areas M92. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total number of oil and gas wells drilled within 50 kil ometres of an u rban area in Alberta between January 1, 1985, and February 17, 2004, broken down by the type of well and the number of wells drilled for each year.

Ms Carlson: Now, perhaps the urban areas have not been quite so movable as the pa rk boundaries have and t his information will be more readily available. Mr. Smith: Well, in fact, Mr . Speaker, the urban bounda ries are extremely movable. I th ink that any administration that has seen since 1992 the explosive growth in Alberta coupled with the creation of almost a half a m illion jobs, bal anced budgets, orde rly debt paydown – we’ve seen a trem endous infusion of welcome peo ple

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1331 from across Ca nada. Of course, well over 600 ,000 p eople have moved to this province, and that has created tremendous changes in the urban makeup of this great province and, in effect, would make it again extreme ly diffi cult if not imp ossible to re flect on the member’s question. So I would have to refer to my previous answer and again reject the motion. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to close the debate. 3:30 Ms Carlson: Well, Mr.

Speaker, if I believed that this minister was acting in good faith – some other ministers have this afternoon – we would have seen at least an amendment where he would have given some information for one or two or three years past. In fact, anyone who thinks of the kind of growth that we’ve had in this province, it hasn’t changed the urban boundary such that this information would be impossible or even hard to p rovide. Once again, he is trying to deny information to Albertans. [Motion for a Return 92 lost] Premier’s Office Bonuses M93.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within the o ffice of the Premier over the 2002-2003 fiscal year broken down by position and amount paid to each official. The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to Motion for a Return 93 you may recall, as I hope other members here will as well, that we did deal with this matter when we discussed Motion for a Return 34.

Subsequent to that discussion we of course approved an amendment for Motion for a Return 34 an d tried to list all departments as being c overed under the am endment. So the amended Motion for a Return 34 as passed currently reads: A breakdown of t he aggregate amount of a ll bonuses awarded to employees within the government of Alberta listed by department over the 2002-2003 fiscal year broken down by the range of bonus dollar amounts and the number of employees who received a bonus within that range. That having been said, Mr.

Speaker, Mo tion for a Return 93 is addressed through the amended Motion for a Return 34 because, of course, issues in this regard that pertain to the office of the Premier are in fact included under that amended motion. With that having been said, there is no need for Motion for a Return 93 to be pursued any further since the essence of it is covered in the amended Motion for a Return 34, as I’ve indicated. So we’ll be rejecting this one. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 93 lost] Executive Council Bonuses M94.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within Executive Council ove r the 2002-2003 f iscal year broken down by position and amount paid to each official. The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the same reasons that I just indica ted rega rding Motion for a Return 93, i t is not necessary to have Motion for a Return 94. It is a lready cove red under the am ended Motion f or a Return 34, that I spok e to just moments ago.

So, on tha t basis, we’re able to reject Motion for a Return 94 si nce it is e ssentially covered also unde r Motion for a Return 34 as amended. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 94 lost] [The Deputy Speaker in the chair] Natural Gas Pipelines M95. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the number of natural gas pipeline ruptures, bursts, breaches, and leaks that have occurred in Alberta in the calendar years 2002 and 2003 broken down by locat ion and level of environmental damage. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Energy. Mr. Smit h: Well, tha nk you, Mr . Speaker .

I would dir ect the member to the Energy and Utilities Board’s information service that includes information such as a field surveillance inspection incident list and the annual field surveillance report. Information is available on inciden ts from as far back as 19 75, inc luding information on pipeline hits. It is available for viewing at no charge, or the member can get information by annual subscription updated monthly and pay for the service, as does everyone else. Therefore, with that abundant amount of public information in the domain today we are compelled to reject the motion.

The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie to conclude the debate. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my understanding that the environmental damage is not listed there and/or any moves that they have made to repair such damage. So what he’s suggesting isn’t adequate information. [Motion for a Return 95 lost] Department of Economic Development Bonuses M96.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within the Ministry and Department of Economic Development over the 2002-2003 fisc al y ear broken dow n by positi on and amount paid to each official. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On beha lf of the hon.

Minister of Economic Development I’m going to indicate that the essence of this motio n for a retur n is alread y addressed th rough amended Motion for a Return 34, that was accepted by this House. I won’t bother to go into all the explanation in that regard, because I covered it, I thin k, adequately a few minutes ago when we were talking about MR 93 and 94. On that basis, MR 96 is not required, because it’s already taken care of through MR 34 as amended. So we can reject it, in other words. Thank you.

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041332 The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie? Ms Carlson: No. Thank you. Question. [Motion for a Return 96 lost] Department of Environment Bonuses M97. Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within the Min istry and Departm ent of Env ironment ov er the 2002-2003 fiscal year broken down by position and amount paid to each official. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Once again, the essence of Motion for a Return 97 is covered under Motion for a Return 34 as amended. We’ll just be reminded of the comments I made earlier this afternoon when addressing motions for returns 93 and 94, which make MR 97 essentially covered by MR 34 as amended. So, on that basis, on behalf of the Minister of Environment we are able to reject MR 97. [Motion for a Return 97 lost] Department of Sustainable Resource Development Bonuses M98.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within the Ministry and Department of Sustainable Resource Development over the 2002-2003 fiscal year broken down by position and amount paid to each official. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With respect to Motion for a Ret urn 98 it, too, is covered under MR 34 as a mended and approved by this House earlier this year wherein all departments of government will be responding and address ing th e issue of bonus dollar amounts and numbers of employees and so on. So, on that basis, on behalf of the hon. Minister of Sustainable Resource Development I can indicate t hat MR 98 is not required and can therefore be rejected since its essence is also covered under MR 34 as amended. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 98 lost] 3:40 Department of International and Intergovernmental Relations Bonuses M99.

Ms Carlson moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total amount of each bonus and aggre- gate amount of all bonuses awarded to senior officials within the Ministry and Department of International and Intergov- ernmental Relations over the 2002-2003 fiscal year broken down by position and amount paid to each official. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the h on.

Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations I’m going to indicate that MR 99 is also covered under MR 34 as amended and approved by this House, and it will provide for a breakdown of the aggregate amount of all bonuses awarded to employ ees. It’ll be listed by depar tment and so on. So, on that basis, MR 99 is not required and can be rejected accordingly. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 99 lost] Business Credit Card Statements for Municipal Affairs Department M100. Mr.

Bonner moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return s howing al l monthly business c redit car d statements for the fiscal year 2002-2003 issued to the deputy minister, all assistant deputy ministers, executive directors, directors, branch heads, managers, and unit leaders for the Department of Municipal Affairs. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you. Mr. S peaker, on behalf of the hon.

Minister of Municipa l Aff airs I jus t want to indicate tha t this particular motion for a return is of course addressed specifically to the Department of Municipal Affairs, as you’ve just heard from the hon. member opposite, but in fact amended Motion for a Return 24, that was approved and accepted by this House earlier this year, opens up that particular motion to include all government departments. As such, we do not ne ed to address the m individually as each MR i s suggesting here.

They are going to all be addressed under MR 24 as amended, and as such we are able to reject Motion for a Return 100 on that basis. I’ll just quickly read this once, Mr. Speaker. MR 24 as amended indicates the following: A statement of all credit card expenses for the fiscal year 2002-2003 incurred by all de puty ministers, al l ass istant deputy ministers , executive directors, dire ctors, branch he ads, mana gers, and unit leaders in aggregate for each government department categorized by accommodation, travel, hosting, and miscellaneous expenses.

So that infor mation w ill come forward under MR 24, as I’v e indicated. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member to conclude debate? [Motion for a Return 100 lost] Business Credit Card Statements for Revenue Department M101. Mr. Bonner moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return s howing al l monthly business c redit car d statements for the fiscal year 2002-2003 issued to the deputy minister, all assistant deputy ministers, executive directors, directors, branch heads, managers, and unit leaders for the Department of Revenue. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr.

Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on behalf of the hon. Minister of Revenue to indicate that Motion for a Return 101 is also essentially covered under Motion for a Return 24 as amended. So for the reasons that I just put on record a couple of minutes ago regarding the information requested, we are able to reject MR 101 since, again, its essence is covered under MR 24 that was amended and approved by this Assembly. Thank you.

May 10, 2004 Alberta Hansard 1333 The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member to conclude debate? No? [Motion for a Return 101 lost] Business Credit Card Statements for Transportation Department M102. Mr. Bonner moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing all monthly business credit car d statements for the fiscal year 2002-2003 issued to the deputy minister, all assistant deputy ministers, executive directors, directors, branch heads, managers, and unit leaders for the Department of Transportation. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Spe aker.

On behalf of the hon. Minister of Transportation I can indicate that MR 102 can also be rejected since it is essentially also covered under MR 24 as amended and approved by this Assembly , wherein a s tatement of all c redit card expenses, et cetera, will in fact be provi ded t hrough that particular MR as amended. Transportation is of co urse one of the many ministries w ithin government, so it is going to be reflected therein. Therefore, we can reject MR 102. [Motion for a Return 102 lost] Department of Transportation IT Contracts M103. Mr.

Bonner moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total dollar am ount spent by the Ministry of Tra nsportation on con tracts f or inform ation technology services broken down by company and total dollar amount for each for the 2002-2003 fiscal year. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Government House Leader. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to Motion for a Return 103 I can indica te on behalf of the hon.

Mi nister o f Transportation that this motion is essentially covered under MR 10 as amended and approved earlier by this Assembly, wherein it was amended to read as follows: An order of the Ass embly do issue for a retur n showing the to tal dollar amount spent by the government of Alberta on contracts for information technology services and a listing of vendors providing these services for the 2002-2003 fiscal year. That having been said, the information is going to be provided under Motion for a Return 10 since the Department of Transporta- tion is of course going to be reflected therein.

So, on that basis, we are able to reject Motion for a Return 103. Thank you. [Motion for a Return 103 lost] Calgary Courthouse Public/Private Project M104. Mr. Bonner moved that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing copies of all correspondence r eceived by the Premier between January 1, 2002, and November 18, 2003, regarding potential conflicts of interest over the usage of a privat e/public partnership to bu ild t he Calgary court- house. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Ju stice and At torney General. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Unfortunately, I have to advise the House that on behalf of the Premier and the government I’m rejecti ng the quest ion. T here ar e a numbe r of rea sons for rejecting the question. First of all, under the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, all members of the House should be aware, correspon- dence that’s written to the government is not necessarily public and can only be made public in certain circumstances if the writer of the letter agrees.

So it wouldn’t be within our purv iew to a ccept a question under an order of th e Legislature to delive r docume nts which might otherwise not be deli verable under the Fre edom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and, in fact, without the permission of the writer of the letter. Secondly, the question is far too broad and ambiguous. It’s not clear from the question w hat confli cts of inter est they might be talking about. There are a number of different areas.

I don’t want to make their cas e for the m, but one m ight look at som e of the questions which arose earlier in the project relative to the concern of the judiciary with the possibility of there being conflicts that might arise if other businesses were collocated in a courthouse with them, the conflicts of interest that might come out from that perspective. Or they might be as king for letters which re fer to a pot ential conflict of interest with respect to somebody who might be bidding on the process.

If it is the process, then I can assure the hon . members that the proc ess has be en open and tra nsparent in e very way. There was a request for information which went out, and as the Minister of Infr astructure has said in th is House on num erous occasions, many parties responded to the request. The next time it went out, it was a request for qualifications, and there were some 15 organizations, groups that responded to the request for q ualifica- tions.

Then that was narrowed down to a request for proposals, to which four groups responded, a nd those were narrowed down to three groups and the n ultimately to two groups before, finally, the final group. 3:50 With respect to all of that proces s, there was a fairness commis- sioner put in place precisel y to dea l with the is sue of potential conflict of in terest and to e nsure th at ev erybody b idding on the process had the sam e inform ation and the same opportunity to participate.

So if they’re talking about conflict of interest with respect to the process itself, again FO IP wouldn’t allow the release of the letter automatically, if there was one. I’m not aware that there are any, but if there were letters, they wouldn’t be releasable, because you’d have to get the pe rmission of the pe rson that w rote them. In orde r to answer this question, you’d have to explore the full gamut of what they were talking about in terms of potential conflicts. Then, finally, Mr. Speak er, the pro cess is still underway.

T he Minister of Infrastructure and his de partment in conjunction w ith Justice and Finance are w orking as we speak w ith the parties involved to finali ze the cont ract w ith respec t to building the courthouse. So for all those reasons, Mr. Speaker, the question is not appropri- ately framed and can’t be answered appropriately, and I’d ask the House to reject it. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry to close debate. Mr. Bonner : Thank you , Mr . Sp eaker.

C ertainly, I thank the minister for his comments, but I think as well, when we’ve seen how this whole process for the building of t he Calgary courthouse is

Alberta Hansard May 10, 20041334 unfolding, that it is even more important that thi s information b e shared with all members of this Assembly and with the public. It is my understanding that we’ve had com ments from so me members of the judiciary who have expressed the potential conflict of interest that can occur if the Calgary courthouse were run under a P3 model. As well, we also have seen tremendous cost overruns that have occu rred.

When we start talking here about c onflicts of interest, I think there were also some concerns that one of the companies that would be involved in the private/public partnership also has a num ber of court proceedings that are taking place right now. This is a very timely question. It is also a question of openn ess and transparency, that certainly has not occurred. This is certainly the reason that this motion for a return was put forward. If there ever was a time when this government could be open and transparent, this is it, and I would urge all members o f the Asse mbly to support Motion for a Return 104.

Thank you. [Motion for a Return 104 lost] Public/Private Partnerships for Infrastructure Development M105. Mr. Bonner moved that an or der of the Assembly do issue for a return showing copies of all reports in the possession of the gove rnment detailing a cost analysis for the use of private/public partnerships for infrastructure development. Mr. Lund: Mr. Speaker, I’ve outlined many times in this House to the member the process that a proposal goes through. They all have to present a business case for the proposal.

There’s a very detailed analysis of that done, and any project that is found to be in the public interest can move forward, but until they get to t hat point, then i n fact they can’t. The information that we are given is very much in confidence and proprietary, and as the members quite well know because they served on the all-party committee dealing with freedom of information and protection o f privacy, that kind of confidential information just simply cannot be released.

So for those reasons we find it necessary to reject this particular question. [Motion for a Return 105 lost] Region 1 Child and Family Services Authority IT Contracts M108. Ms Carlson moved on behalf of Dr. Massey that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the total dollar amount spent by the region 1, southwest Alberta, child and family servic es authority on contracts for inf ormation technology services broken down by compan y and total dollar amount for each for the 2002-2003 fiscal year. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Ms Evans: Thank you very much.

Well, it’s a pleasure to respond and indicate that the government is prepared to accept MR 108 with amendments, specifically moving that the amendment include “and each of the child and family se rvices authorities or their pred eces- sors, referred to in m otions for r eturns 108 to 116 inc lusive and 121,” after “region 1, southwest Alberta, child and family services authority.” Mr. Speaker, the rationale for that is fairly obvious. It will enable us to be mor e effective in moving the motions for returns. It w ill encompass the intent of 108 and all of the motions that follow, up to and including 116 and 121.

Also, we have shared this information with the opposition colleagues prior to 11 this morning, and I believe it was circulated to all of the members today. The Deputy Speak er: On the amendment, the hon. Me mber for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Ms Carlson: Thank you, Mr. Spe aker. This is in fact a very, very helpful amendment, and we thank the minister for providing it and taking the reques t for inf ormation seriously when it w as in fa ct a serious request. So we will be supporting this amendment and once again thank her. [Motion for a Return 108 as amended carried] Public/Private Partnership for Calgary Hospital M117.

Ms Carlson moved on behalf of Mr. Bonner that an order of the Assembly do issue for a return showing the business and cost analysis for the proposed private/public partnership for the hospital in south Calgary including any analysis of the savings accrued by using a private/public partnership over a public model. Mr. Lund: Mr. Speake r, the fa ct is that we don’t ha ve muc h information on the south Ca lgary hospita l. It ’s in it s in fancy. Therefore, we have to reject this motion. 4:00 The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member to conclude debate. Ms Carlson: Thank you.

It would seem that there are some costs or some projections that should be available to share. W e would at least anticipate a future commitment for you to provide that informa- tion as it is available. [Motion for a Return 117 lost] Premier’s Travel to Asia M118. Ms Carlson moved on behalf of Ms Blakeman that an order of the Assem bly do issue for a return showing the total dollar amount of and a co