~·JR ~I~E PERICJD: 10:00 a.s. - 1:00 n.n. ?RID~Y, APRIL 22, 1977

..,,., ...:....:.., 1?77 .. The r:ouse r:'.et at lO:OtJ a.n . ··:r. Speal-:cr ir. the Cll.air. ?a~e 1 -- a::b 0rder, ?lease! ~~e b.on. the ~~inister of F is ?: eries . '1R . ~-; . CArt TE R : "·f,.... --· . I want to table a copy of a telegram ;·.rhich I ~'1ave todav sent to lcbster buyers in :;ova Scotia' to national Sea I to :~ickersons .. L i D.i ted, all of :ro'T-3. Scotia.

The telegra~ reads: :• I ?...:.,.,_ at a. loss to e}~nlain to f is~ermen call ina 71."'1 o-ff ice ~- ·-'11'' the 1977 lobster orices are lower than those naid last year especiall y since fishernen in Atlantic Canada are receiving substantially higher returns at this tine. ':':1is appears to be another classic exannle of deliberate exploitation and is totally unaccenta ble to me. I therefore demand that you nrovide me in writin0 within seven days justification of nresent oricing . nolicy.

T:1is '·rill then be subni tted to our F ishinr:r I~fustry Advisor y 3oard ~or verification!' I concluded my telegran hv renindina the connanies that their ~ resence in this Province is by leave and licence o£ my dc~artnent and unless satisfactory oroof of their Dresent ~ricing nolic y is Eorthco~ing I will ~ot hesitate to take the necessarv action to allow only those firns who offer realistic nrices in 1977 fer lobster, and are fair to our Eis~or~en access to t~is v er? i~ ? orta~t ~is~ery . !::i-:;neG r .,. ~ alter Cart .er .· ·::i:1is-ter o : Fisheries : i:ear, ~ear! lol. ·sters a conC.i tion o~ t ~ e lic2:1ce? :To,. t .here is !10 - t1n(.er t~:~ r)re:=;er.. ~ , . -·. :~·· : .. .i

A.nril ~? .-.-: 1977, Ta;~e 1813. Pacre 2 -- a.:~b arranr;renen t, :~r. Snea}:er, t~e issuance of a licence is not contin~ent on t~e nrices that are establis~ed. But could t~e ninister do that. ~~~. ~!. CARTE?: '·Te ":lroba::::l v could. - sry ycu are not crettin0 a licence until you ~ay this nuch per ponnd for your lotsters? : LK.. 1·7. CAR '!'ER : :-1r. Spea1:er, I s~ould Point out to the Eouse that the cor, ;~ .::.ni.es concerned or-_ .. '1.Dril . - sor.a places r in :·Te\·T Erunsr,dck.

New Brunswick two dollars, in some areas as high as two dollars and thirtv cents. '!:wo days later in Newfoundland, April 2n, :·1R. :·rEARY: One dollar a nound. :·'lR. )! • CARTER: - they r,•rere off erinc:r nine tv cents a ?Ound for Newfoundland lobster. !1R. ~7EARY ~ Terrible~ They s~ould te 1J~ ... r~isheG, all o~ tl1en. That, t:r. Srea}:er,- is ':i.J...,a t pro7:pted r:e to send this telegrain to t~1e con'!;anies concerned. ::ear, hear; The hen. the renber ~or ~ewis~ort~. ~lr.

S[)e-3.}:er, just in ::-eactincr to the state~rcent b•' the ~1inister of ?is:1eries, for our t2l·.en t.::is ·3. ction ~- 0 ~ ;-, 11 ,_ - ~ • -' - - - ·-- ::::» ._ ~-. .-e feel ..... ll- is lobster :':isherr..en in this Pro·vi:lce for:- a lone; tir..e •:Iere t~:.e -Eisher~en ~·,rl!o ~·IG.!'e c_;etti:1c;- a decent ~rice, or a.t least ~·.rc --.,.., :....~ . ~ .tn.til :>:our or f.iv2 years ·3.']'0. price s ta 'leC .. th.e sar.e for a. nur::ber of ~.icars. I >.a. ve ' ' '

Anril ?! -.:....! 1 r. ; ,.., -v...!......Jr ~age 3 t.::Cis !·:ouse and as a ~re~-·;founclander, £or a c;ood i'lc.n:.r Scotian fisherr:1en !iave been crettinr:r such . . a high p rice and fis~er~en in t~is ~rovince gettin~ s~c~ a s~all nrice. I am delighted to see t:1e action that the minister has taken.

I an delighted to see the action that t!1e f isll.ermen are ta}:ina around :7e\·_Tfoundlancl, and I tll.in}: '.'ie in t~is Eouse, ?Jarticularl\r the goverr~I:t. ent, sl1oulC stand t.Jeh.ind t~e -: is:"1er7l.en just to ::J.a}:e sure t>.a t ':!e C::o straicrhten this :"rorlef:' out once and for all. ~Te are deli<}hted, .'·lr. SneaJ-:er. .'tR. SPEAKER: The hon. the ~Hnister of ~rans~ortation and Co~nunications. :{R. ~10RGA2J: ~-~r. Speaker..

I an not sure t:1is is the a~?ropriate ~lace to do this, but I should like to ask leave o£ the Eouse to, on behalf of qa'IerT'..men t anC. :1cre£ully 0:1 behalf of the Eouse of Asser::bl y , to ~o.y tribute to the three cersons who won awards last night iTI St. John's and in the Province here in connection ' . .'i th s::>ort in our Province.

I should like to move that the Couse unani~ously congratulate the recipients of the auards bv 2eans of a teleqram to all concerned and to !lay tribute to for exarrtple, the At~1lete of the Year i:-1 the p erson of :~iss Joanne :!cDonald, r:Jho at the Canada gares for t~1e uisabl.e.d not only won eicht nedals. but also set five records and ~ -:as chosen to be t~1e .:emale at~lete of the games. SO. }:J est athle-::8 vear in 1976 here in our Province . . . --::" ._.- ..-~ .·~

Tape AJ-f-1 'fR. ~-f()RGAN: Also the team of the year 1-1as mv-arded to the Jack ~kDuff curlin~ rink vJho I a!!! sure \ve all agree las members of the House of Assemblv, in fact all ~reHfoundlanders, were outstanding ambassadors of :-le•Jfoundland and snort in :re•,,foundland across the country And aJso looking at the organizations of sports and the sports ore;anization activities throughout the Province~we have fifty of these and these executives are quite in organization sports throughout the Province. An a1..ra rd r,.Jas also made last evening to the e~erson of ~fr.

Al Greene r,rho apnarently devoterl. -cnanv, manv years of his life towards sports. fu"J HON. f~fJ3ER: That is not all he does. '1R. HORGAN: So I ,.muJ.d like to have - Nr. Greene, I understand~ is the same nerson that advises the han. member from LaPoile. Fe does a good job in his snorts, I do not know if he does a (?:COd iob rv-hen :-te advises the han. member from LaPoile. HP.. :'.TEARY: I advise him~ t~at is r...rhy he is so successful. ~~- CARTER: He has a proxy seat. ?'fR. HORGAN: Sq, ~r.

Sneaker, I would like to ask the Rouse. of Assembly to pay tribute and to congratulate all these three recioients bv means of a telegram from the Rouse of Assembly indicating that. ~fR. SPEAKER: Ron. member for Stephenville. !vffi. ~cNEIL: :-tr. Speai<er, I 1v-ould like to second that motion moved by the hon. ~'inister of Transportation. I attendee! the hanauet and I must say I 1.;as very·· much imnressed ·Hith the aw·ards ~ in particular i~iss Joanne HcDonalcl . As a former pbysical education instructor I feel that most people misunderstand nhvsical education and snorts and recreation generallv.

And as the ..'·.thletic of the ' 1 ear, '~iss Joanne l"fcDonald, the. example of the individual, in order for her t:o <xcel in ~1er snort she must he a disciplined individual. And to see a handicanped

Anril 22, 1?77 Tape vno AF-2 ~ .. !R . VcNEIL: oerson achieve such an award is very moving and the fact that her ~vhole outlooY:. in life is geared verv much to snort,I think that it shows that snorts and recreation is tied very closl y to our social fabric todav. I r,rould lil:e to seccmd the motion moved by the ~ ~inister of Transportation and I think He should all support it unanimously and send a telegram. to the individuals who 1von the awards last night at the a1.:rards 1":-anquet. SOHF.: rrrm. ~ ~~·f BERS : Fear, h ear: ORAL QUESTIOl\fS ~·!R. SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of the O~position. l'JR.

ROBERTS: There are a number of questions on \vhich I \vish to ask auestions so we \vill have to take them in turn. Mr. Speaker, the first one,I think~I must ask of the ~ ( inister of Ftnance in his treasurv board capacity and ohviously grm·IS out of the situation at r,7aterford with reports- now they are in the paper, thev ,.;ere on the radio overnight- o E three separate fires. I do not know ho~.:r large . they r,;ere, I do not l·.now 1v-hether they r,.7ere deliherateJ.y set or not, hut obviouslv the circumstances are such that one must be uneasy.

I could frame a number of cuestions ~;ut I do not \o7ant to o.lay that kind of game rvith the minister. Could the minister perhaps a -..,rief statement on Hhat he may knmv- of the situation and Hhat is going to be done. Are there going to be any investigations other than the normal CID one or not. The situation is very ohviously disouieting because the iwplication that one gets from the nress report is that these were not accidental fires. There were three of t~em and t he circumstances do not sound accidental~and t ~ is is most ctisnuieting. Ron. '~inister of Finance. '· ~. ··-

Aoril 22,1977 Tane l819 :\H- 3 ~~. !)00DY: ~es, '•!r. Speaker, t:.e infomation t~at I have is to the pffect t~at these fires were not accidents,thev were deliherate l y set,and it appears that thev were set ~v a patient - one natient - ··7ho ~ot hold of a box of matches and set t':ese three :irP.s. '!":'!ey Here not seriot.:s !'ires fortunate lv , the sprinkler svstern as such looked after them as thev took place

Anril :?2, 1977 Tane "'To. 1820 , - J. vP_, D00DY: The 70lice are inves tip;ating t~e incicents, I t~ink t"'e sa~e patient ':·lent through the sc.me nerfor:nai!ce about four years 2-go uhen he got hold of a ~ox o£ l!!atches and \•Tent on the sane sort of a ser-Les of unfortunate enlsodes. ,fl.s the han. Lea~er of the 0p~osition says,it is ~isquietinz and it is re~?rettable~but I do not knor,r that I c;:.n 2~-C. -an7t:1i:1f ot!-l.er than that to tl:le situation at t~1.e present tiT:l.e, Sir, 'f'.:?,. SPEA.I~:SP.: ~\. supnle!".entnry.

"­,_,.,._. ar;.on~ the c.-atie!1ts at \7aterfcr!# '!.~ is ' ;"e ceocle ~l:lo are arsonists, T ,.,_ean t:---.at is -:1. sy,..,_,.,ton of a. 7::inr:l of !ental iJ:~.balance or ps,-chiatric ?Tot>.le"l <Jhic!.l. r-1ould recmire hosnital treatne!l.t in an institntion li!:e 'Taterford, ~!P-. HHITE: Pyromania. '.fR. ?OBERTS : It is, pvroT!"ania is onl:r nart of the condition ,I "OU~_d is the unfortunate part of tl:le 'iJaterford. to look after neocle <·rho re'!lly b.ave very di.fficuJ t rrol· '..er..s. -:"\ut r1y question is this, ··~r.

Sneal:e;:-, is the niniter satisfie~-and I realize thnt he ~ust he at several s'::e,s remo'red l..Jece.use :"l.e r1.oes not ope-::-ate the hosDital; it is operated ':Jv a bo~rd r,-:ith an administrati~e staff '·lhO ~·o-::-1~. ''ith that '.Joarc'- ::.ut is the minister satisfied that the inter!!~l security 1:-lithin the institution is adequate? .\nd r_.re have :-.ac. b·lo incidents, 1-;o~~ of them un!:ortunate, one tragic, tc,TO i::c:.c:erots .,,ithin t-:ventv-four hours, tha.t is '!lore than they are I!or:r..ally-. are incidents lil(e this from time at T-.iaterfiJrd. ':':-!ere <'-l'.J,"l.'TS h:'.ve stri1_:e conditions \vhir.'c -io ortain? 1'no hon, ·~iniste-::- of ~inance. ade~uate in as far (lS can '>e.

Taoe '~o, 1CJ2r"' It ~Toul:l. aflnear t~at one of these incifents see.!:ls to t:::-ig,ger another one and as t:..e hen.

Le<tder ho.s indice..teC., nany months ~vi:!.l oass and nothing unforeseen, or nothi!" . .>! unfortunate such as these incidents occurs and then vou have !".e.y~e t-.:.:o or three of the.~, certainly none of them as serious as the unfortunate occurr2nce at Bm-rring :o ark. 'L'he security arrangements 1 as far as I l~nm..r, a!'.d as far :IS ':-7e hc>.ve heen assured. 1,:)~,,- the a.C::' . .:.:cis tration · satisfied that the security arrangements a:::-e adenuate, In the rn.eanti..T!l.e, ::ts I hav~ irtdicated ~the CI!) ha.,re heen as~(ed to investigate and look i.nto th.is Darticular incident anr. to try to C.etermine v-1hether inceed extra security should be :Jrovi.~ed desL>ite the assurances of the administration.

I ~i~ht also add~ of course .,that ''az,istrate n "ieill' s ter:n.s of referer.ce ir.clude a reference to the security arran~ements, Ee has been askec1. to look. into the adecuacy of t!l.e arran.Ze"!!lents and make reco:nrnenC.ations or. o!Jservations thereon. 3ut in t:Ce '!1e.1.r,ti::1e 1as I ~ave sai:-'. ,ue l:.ave ask.er:l t~1e local constabulary nr the CID ryeoole to loo1~ into it and reassure us in the !!leantir:le, 'Jne final sunply supnJ.e~entary. 1":.e Leac.er of t!ce Ormosition. ?JYSF."P.'!'S : 'lfr .. <"~P"''-er -it-~.,...,..,., ... out o~ t'-e .,., .. ,r-i=orrl s.;~,Llat;,.,,., ~: • ."-C.L\.. ' __ ;.:....._ ..... .'o;.,:, !... ~l_ , _1_.._.: '. ~ .L..I- ...... ..,L~t Could t~e r:1in~ster tell us w~et~er any negotiations ~r Rnything is noH underr,vay bet>7een the -zovern.'"lent ;md t'le union or are He , .... ··'- a cc~~lete i~nasse, iust standin~ ~ack ~aitin~, ~o~in~ f0~ is .1.rwthing unce!"'·7ay? '\-::-e ;:t'"l\• crmtacts or ne!Ooti.:=ttions ur.:'!er:·7a ;r !he han. ~~n!ster.

""') --, 1977 JY - '3 \''0 '.)('lf'\~V : ~ 1 ;: hr:tve r.oc :n::i a co~tacc, a : o:-:a l ccnt:ac ::. 0'.)\7 -!.ously th~ officials of t h e deprtrt':!.enc of :reasury boa rc!, a "o:--::al ~e~tir. g si!'!.cc:-or a f o nc>.l conv~rsati!'.'n s i:!ce ~·1s t oricr to t~e union ~eetin~ . ~here has hee!'!. nothi ~? of suhstance since in0icate~ .t }e re is a scale~ate and i : ar.~ear s to ~e an i~nassP. .... .. 3

April 22, 1977 Tape no.1821 Page 1 - ms J:fr. Doody. are just trying to find some avenues, some uay to get the thing reopened and to get it started again. ::P.. NOLM-1 ; A supplementary, ~rr. Speaker. :-fR . SPEAKER: I had indicated - not that I had indicated but - ;rn.. ~EARY: I ,;ill allm·l the member, :rr. Speaker. ~JR. SPE.AKER: Right. Then I \·lill recognize the hon. member. \~"hat I Has going to point out is when the Chair recognizes one ~on. me...rnber on the suggestion of a fL1al supplem.entary 1 it becomes a bit difficult situation t~ereafter. But the problen is solved.

The hon. member for Conception Bay South. HR. NOLAN: Hy question is merely for the ~1inister of Finance, and it is simply this: We have a real problem in the Haterford Hospital. NoYJ Hhen is the gentle!:.::c.n ~-Tho is responsible for that hospital going to give an account of it himself here in the aouse and that is the ~1inis ter of Health, not the ~-finis ter of Finance? It is as simple as that. ~'IR. SPEAKER: The han. Hinister of Justice. HR. ;JOODY: I1r. Speaker, the question may be very si.!nple but the answer is very difficult. I re2.lly cannot say when the han.

Hinister of Health is going to make a statement in the House. I nave no way of knowing that, Sir . If I had the inf orm2. tion I ,.,ould be only too happy to supply it. 1-ffi.. SPEAKER: r.~e hon. member for LaPoile. :,rr. Speaker, I ·.·muld like to ask some questions about the proposed increase in hydro rates, but __ tber;; does not seem to ::,e a minister in the House r..;ho can ansHer the question. So I am going to instead zero in on the :-[in is ter of Finance, Sir .

I '"ould like to ask the minister, in vie~·l of the fact that t~1e government have advertised for an Assistant Deputy Hinister of Finance, \vould the w.inis ter, you know, e.v;:plain to t:1e rlous e ~;hat is going on? Is there a re-organization going on? Uas the assistant deputy ninister

April 22, 1977 Tape no. 1821 Page 2 - r.1s ~ir. ~eary. that is there now resigned? Hhat is the situation in the Department of Finance? 'ffi.. SPEAKER: ~·m .. DOODY: The hon. ~1inister of Finance. Yes, i-1r. Speaker, as I informed the hon. member for LaPoile (I'!r. Neary) before the House opened? the Assistant Deputy Uinister of Finance, Hr. \Jarriner has regrettably tendered his resignation to the effect of June 30. He is leaving us to take up a teaching post at the university. HR. )TEARY: ~[emorial? HR. DOODY: At ~·1emorial University here in Ne~.;rfoundland.

And he is going to be a very great loss to the department. He has got an expertise in management, debt management, capital r.1arkets. HR. w1IITE: ;1R. ~TOL\N: HR. DOODY: Does he need more money? Will he take more money? No, I understand that he is going to the university initially at a lower salary, but I think the object of tl1e exercise is that while ~..rorking at tl1e university he rtJill be i~ a position to get involved in outside activities and business consulting and this sort of thing. That has happened before although that certainly has not come up as yet.

The opportunities are apparently of a wider scope \.Jhen Harking at the university t~1an they are when you are in the puh :.ic service '"here you are not allm·rcd to take outside assignments. As I say~it is very regrettable. T.'1e c;entle.T:J.an has served us 1·7ell. He came here from Alberta like something over t-.;.;o years ago, tr,;o and one-half y22.rs a;o. At that time he undertook to vmr:·~ Hith us for t:'<:·70 years. He n.~.s I·Ti th us for o..ro and one-hal£ years. He is leaving us.

TI1e relationship is good. ~Je have nothing but kind connents for :1im. ~rR . cEARY: Is that the fellow who brought the horses here Hh.en he cane? . : "J

April ,.,.., .:... ..... , 1977 Tape no. 1821 Page J - illS :m. DOODY: No, he is the gentleman who ~·Jas accused by the member for LaPoile (Yr. ::reary) - ·•n .L,. :~EARY: &ny charges. ~IT'.. DOODY: ~fR. ~IEARY : Order Paper. ~-~. DOODY: ~To, I did not accuse anybody. I never mai'-e Iio, I see. He was suggested. That is right. I put a question on the At that time I assured the ;wn. nembers present that the ~averment of neufoundland and the people of Newfoundland did not pay to bring the horses belonging to the ;:r,entleman from Cal~ary dm-m from \·I estern Canada.

As a matter of fact, the gentleman from Calgary bought the horses here in the Province of Ne~·Jfoundland, and I do not :'-nm-7 if they are up to his high Western standards. :~ .. ~OBERTS: According to reoor~s we onlv imnorte~ half a horse. ~-lR. DOODY: iJhat did happen at that particular ti.rae \vas that in a letter to the Jepartment Hhen he was comir:g dmvn he asked us if ..._..,e >.;ould transport his personal belongings, and included in L1is personal belongings were two :·10rses. 'IR. NEARY: So I was half right. :1:1. DOODY; The Departm~nt of Finance - ·m.. NEARY: Hy research is pretty good. !·!R.

DOO uY : That is right. You only found one half of the letter. There -;,;as only half a horse involveli. :'!R. DOODY: No, he did not bring half a horse. He did not bring any horse. ~-:e Hrote hi.rn back and said that \.Je could :·.ot bring doHn or pay for any of his l1orses so that ':·las tie end of the Hatter. :-le left his horses in Calgary and bought sorn.e more horses in :~e~.;foundland, and I hope tl1at'he and his horses ~"lave had a pleasant relationship. And I think ve iave successfuly dealt with the horse auestion.

April 22, 1977 Tape no. 1821 Page !..: - ms ·m. DOODY: As for the reorganization of t~e Department of Ficance, no,there is no plan for a reorganization. He regretfully ~ave to find another assistant deputy minister. I sincerely hope he is as capable and competent as ~r. Warriner has been. '-fR. ~EARY: A supplementary question, ~1r. Speaker. '[~. SPEP.KER: A supplemantary.

. .c\.pril ..,.., ~-' TanE> 1222 I"R-l vp ::r::P. oy : "lt is aJso repartee, ~·r. SneAYer- , that trE> "eputy \fi.nister of finance, ~o~ptroller of t~e ~reasurv, has eithPr ~iven notice that he 18 ~oin~ Is there anv founc?ticn to thE'se re~orts at all? "'r.e hen. "jni .ster of Finance. :'--r:R .• f.OODY: ~To. the hon. rnernber for LaT'oil e (~'r. ~~eary) hP..S not even read half the letter this time. TherP is no such resi?nation. ~0 resignation has reen ten~ered. "'hP non. rnerncer jg incorrect. ':1,E>re 5.s no substance in tre :rurr-our . ,., ~.rr~ . i\ ~Y: ,.,., ,..,0~DY: Ves,yon rid.

You .iust c'icl . _j11St then. "1"' :JF..-" oy: ""To , I r i c1 n c t . ~'T' T'()nnv: c·To' I h~arc1 that vou starter! the TUT"OUr. ~-!"' NF.A, t'Y: }"r. Sl)eaY.e.r, a point of ord~r. \'T' !"'l"')f')TW: Your - v<.> ~!~A0 Y: Jnst to set the rec0rt1 str;Ii;h.t, S:ir, T P..rn not tr•d .ng to start a ru!"our. So therefore I, as a !Tle!'l.her of th;s Pnuse, have to fine out from the Js she fa11inr arart or ~hat? 'fP. nnnnY: r.:m I r'li.sne1 tl:lP T1J1"'.0Ur that the hon . '?entlern~m fr:r LaPo:! le U'r. ~:e<'l.ry) ha.s not starte<i, .~ ir.

"'here is no substance in the rn~our that he has not started that the T'eoutv "jn:f_s ter of ~iuance offererl hjs resignation or is to ~y ~nowled~e ?Din~ to rpsipn ~c-....,_orror-r or someti:r.e next ''P-ar cr this ;rear. /s ~ol"'. ebod y has SH?:'"ested. ~he ~orld mi~ht en~ tol"'orrov. I cannot foresee that e~t~er. r>1.1t to the l-,est of TT!Y knm.,ledge jt is not gain~ to h.appen. 'rp '10('nv: T~at is right. And R 1 ~ ttle h it e Rr!~er en han. me~ber's - v 2lJ e~cuse ~e. ,..-on ~Tit:"" p·~n • • • • ' · • . j ~ • T~e ~on. r . e~r'ler 0f the 0nonsiti0n follo~e~ bv the - · -.· ~ ~ ·. ·_)

'T'ape 1822 TP.-2 1 ~ave a nuestion I have been try1n~ for t~ree ~avs to ~et the opport1mity to ask of the vinister of Fisheries. I 1-noP it is a mjstake to ~sk the minister a nuestion because he tends to 3ut thjs is a ~istrict situe~tion and it is 'Tery imncrt;:mt for the. peop]e concernecl.

Tt is t~e herring nlants on the Lahraclor si~e of the Str~its nf Zelle Tsle: '·'v unc'lerstan~ing is that the "'inister's offjcials or the t::'inic;ter 1'.iT'I'IseJf has in consuJtaticn ~vith the Sa1tfis'h Corpore.tjrm ~r>reed to rr to ta~'.e ar.;ay anv of the ecmi.pT"ent, the c11tt:fng ~nct nrnces.sin9" eauin'fTlent at L 'Anse-au-Clair or c>t: ,..,ec 3.::oy, the tPO other herTing plants 1·Thich have heen operated laf:t yee.r in the I a!-Jr2cl.or sicle of ny ric.ing under the three year experimentaJ prog-ram~e.

":'he Cluestjon is sir:r.ply, 1·rhat changes jf any ~!iJJ he ma.de at the L 'tlnse-au-\}.ajr oner~tion and/or at the Perl ~ay operation as c> result of the 2ec5sion, vrith r,r1-dch. :r concur,by the r.rav,to do it, to set uv a.n O'!)eration at L'.~nse-~u-T.oup. "y concurrence is on the assu'TTlptioh there ::,;ilJ be no changes at L'Anse-au-1.lair or Ped RC~y. But I conJ.ct I asl~. the ThP hon. ~inister of Fisheries. 'IT'. F. (",.\P'T'f'P: '{r. Speaker, the officials nf the T"'epar.tT"ent of ~ishertes ~ere in th~t area, I th1nk, this week. "'1:-!e as.c::istant ne-puty lv'inister aT"d othPrs - Yes.

That ~atter :i.s beinr cC'nsjrered nor.-• encl. maybe I can have the report for the hon. Leader nf the noT"osition so~eti~e at the ~e?innjng nf next week. ir.e ~:on. member for ~ellevne. ·;'):' .l. pV • -'1-.:. ~- ..... A Slrpp}e'l""entary to the ''inister of f-isl-:.eries. >rn rrel1 I r.rill recn<>nize one sunp~ ementarv then the hon. rember for :3ellevHe. nr.nld t:.,e ::'inister teJl the Pouse if t~is f1<'!rt:.icul?r ' . .. }

A r r tl 2 ~ , 1 ? 7 7 Taoe 1622 :.3 - 3 incl ude d in t he n et,• Fede r~l fish er~ es prC":-:ra!:' !""e? ::oulcl t:i".ere. 1-,e any 1:- e n efi ts t l-te!"e for that plant? I p r ~ s ur.-e you are t aJJ·in:;; anou r r ;, e ~ 41 ni1.1icm ? ''r. Spea!"e r, tr~ .'ast ve.a r in i c.iatec a nilor ope r atio n in ~ci~.i. rc.l's Beac h J;av inP. to do Pi t h ouaJ ity cont ro l nf fish~ durin :a: '·.thic h ti='le , . .re exlJerirent?.r '·'i th cPrt<?.in t ypes of w>loc:.dj.ng faci! it:i.es, tee - ll' .. ~ldn? facEit:ies, U s h ne ts ancl this sort of t hinl?.

La ter r.,e ti-t~ fis!-et'!T'en t o pr.or't.'lc!' a ~l?tte r C'uaJ i t v of fish , 1·!e then presente d tt?.t report the cost o4= F~ich - the cost of t~e f <td J i t i es '·muld have heen aro~:.n d ~13 r1:f.1l ion . \·:e orel"enteci r.h.~t r~port.to· IJP.EE . ~' e ~··e re Cluite con tent t o s"lar e our. c ost nf the on "apclav, I t hink it Pas tn le<>r ;, frC"tT' the fe ,le rrt ) !".'i.ni.c:; cer of fi.sher:tes that t-e hPs c?.cceptecl our proposa

l) April 22, 1977 Tape 1823 PK - 1 Hr. W. Carter: and that now his department will be picking up the tab for all of the cost, the entire $13 million. It is a real breakthrough and we are quite proud of it. SOME RON. MEl'ffiERS : Hear, hear! HR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Bellevue. MR. W. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Rural Development.

Could the minister inform the House how many repossessions there has been by the Rural Development Authority, ha~ that department been involved in during this fiscal year, re­ possessions resulting from the. failure of projects, projec.ts t,;hich were have to be carried on successfully~hopefully as a result of loans made by the Rural Development Authority? How many repossessions have we had in this fiscal year? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Industrial and Rural Development. MR. LUNDRIGAN: I have all of that in my back pocket for a nice little while, carrying it around. I have forgotten right now. MR.

ROBERTS: He could not use his brains anyway. MR. L UNDRIGAN : So I cannot give the member precisely, but there have been a significant number of repossessions because we have made a significant number of loans, and we are going to have more in the future because the programme we have is a very flexible programme where we take risks that normally we would not take with any type of programme. I cannot give the han. member, Hr. Speaker, the precise n~ber, but it would be a fairly high number.

I have been a little bit tougher the last couple of years,as the member is aware,with loans that were made that have really been bad loans,or people have not made an adequate attempt to repay our loans,and we have been a little bit rough. We have had a collection rate of, I believe, only 38 per cent a year and a half ago, and that is well over 40 per cent right now, it is up tm-Tards SO per cent, and we a:-e

April 22, 1977 Tape 1823 PK - 2 Mr. Lundrigan: sa~isfied that most of the loans we have in place now, people are treating the .loan with a bit more respect, and of course that is the aim the department has. Now I will get the information for the hon. member, of course~ "·1h,en estimate time is around we will have all kinds of such details. But the member is perhaps saying - MR. NEARY:_ Will the minister give us the list of loans? HR. Lill.TDRIGA1'1S: We will give a list of all of the loans . . -"s a :::.atter of fact, but ,.,e will not give the names of the loans We will, I might add, Mr.

Speaker, if the member would raise a question on Newfoundland and Labrador Development I can bring him up to date on a change of policy in that particular area as well. That information will be forthcoming when the estimates are available. MR. CALLAN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The original questioner. ~1R • CALL.~"{ : Mr. Speaker, I wonder could the han. minister inform: ·.the House how does the number of repossessions during this fiscal year compare with the year before? Are they greater or - MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Industrial and Rural Development. MR. LUNDRIGAN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I would think that they might have been greater, and the reason for it is when I came into the department a year and a half ago a lot of the loans that were made originally there was not a big effort to keep some of the people on their toes~and I instructed the department more than a year ago to ensure that every effort would be made to treat the loan as a loan, and I believe members will want me to do that.

But I must say we are quite satisfied tthat the repayment and the success rate that we have in ~ural Development Authority, which is so flexible, and as all members are aware, we can put a loan into place very quickly, has been perhaps even a bit higher than under the DREE loan programme 1vhere there is a sophisticated procedure in making decisions. ~ .- ........ ..., . ,.

April 22, 1977 Tape 1823 PK - 3 MR. Sl:EAKER: The han. member for Baie Verte-w~ite Bay. MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries. The minister will recall that the operators of the - Sm·1E HON. MEHBERS: Oh, oh! ~1R . RIDEOUT: be brief. If the Opposition will give me a chance now I will The minister will recall that the operators of the fish plant at LaScie, Newfoundland Quick Freeze Limited have run out, I suppose, is the way to put it, their three year operation agreement, and at least it is up for a talking again now what happens to the fish plant in LaScie.

I wonder if the minister could tell the House whether or not any negotiations are going on at the mcment between the government and Newfoundland Quick Freeze or any other company for that matter to operate the LaScie fish plant this year? MR. SPEAKER: The han. i-finis ter of Fisheries. MR. W. CARTER: Yes, Mr. Speaker. SONE HON . MEMBERS : Hurrah! MR. RIDEOUT: Well, Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the original questioner. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

Speaker, I really threw him off balance, how brief the minister was in his reply, but I >•onder if the minister would give some details who are the discussions being held with? XR. SPEAKER: ~R. W. CARTER: The han. Minister of Fisheries. Well here we gc again. I have to see if I have my notes here somewhere. Hr. Speaker negotiations are continuing with the Newfoundland Quick Freeze and,I might say, another company with a view to getting the plant in operation. HR. ROBERTS: The plant .will be in operation? :!R. W. CARTER: The plant will be in operation. SOME P.ON. r!EMBERS: Hear, hear! ~1R. H. CARTER: Al'l RON.

P.!EHBER: I am hoping that within - How about in Bay de Verde?

april 22, 1977 Tape 1 823 PK - 4 MB.. ~~ • CARTER: Do you want to hear the answer or not? HR . RIDEOUT: Yes, I do. Yes. MR. W. CARTER: It is very important to the member for Baie Ve rte AN RON. MEMl3ER: And White Bay too. 'HR. • \-l • CARTER: And White Bay. We hope to be able to make a statement, Mr. Speaker, within maybe a couple of weeks as to exactly what tvill ,· happen in that plant during the coming year. MR . RIDEOUT: A supplementary? MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. The original questioner. . ·. -

.:;.-:Jril 1977, ':'::ic:Je 1324, )~R. RIDEOU'::': :rr. Sneaker, I ' .. 7 onder ~-rhet~1er or not there are any negotiations onqoi~q to have any trawlers deliver ~is~ to the LaScie oneration. the LaScie ~l2.nt? : !R. ~·7. Cl~~TE~ · T:1.a t is one of the ontions ,. : :r . Sneaker. we are looking at and there is a real possibility that could haonen. ~:1e !-"2or: ... t:~e 7'.e~her for 1'!inc1sor - ~-1:2.. ~LIGI~T: nr. Snea}-::er. this cruestion to the :Hnister of ':'ransporta tion and Co:G.r:mnications.

Last vear when the Trans-Canada was close~ ~est of Grand Falls. after the reconstruction ~r1as conn lete t.he road \·ras J:.:::nt closed for three Dore months w~ile an over~ass ~as ~einc resurface~ and new rails ~eincr nut on. :rm·: t~w t·.·ord deteriorated to a point where it was not safe. ~·Tould the minister confirD or dRny it (;.'as the'! reason tl12.t the , • 1 • ., +- celTIC! Dllll.. '- :l.Dd di:1 not onen until Decen}:er? ~-Tt,_a, t vas the reaso21 given at the ti:1e for the overpass l::8inr:- urc;rac1ed, a net·! dec~.;: put on and ne~·l railincrs? I do not understan~ that ~uestion.

T~e hon. tl!e ~~inister a: ':'ra!"! s~orta -:ic::. an:::_ Coi'll:1unica. tions. '~r.. S"f")eal:er i~ i rec=~_ll I reason ~1hv t:'le roac ·.•as closed a.;::ter t~;.e necessary ~·J. t - 7 :!.e l"Touse c!il not ~e.ct ~.-? .. st. ?c.ll .. . . , ~ cut ..

· ie 2..1.~~ ::o t r:eet last ~ ~ll . It was the Fall te~ore . . :e d.oes :10t }:n.O'd ~·i:'iat. :Ce t3.lJ~ing about . ~ 7 ell, : ~ r . C r; e -3.. ~:. e r ·" I r '2 call sa:.:-·ing it in the Eouse of Assenbl:.r 'r:-:ethe.r it ':las iE ':'~1e Fall 1 5~!:1.mer, Sor ing or ~'inter or \·Ihen, I recall saying in t~e Eouse that You said last 7all. . .. .,.~ ,....; ..: .• ::: · ~ ~ ....._:... . not ::"!.eet last ?all. the ~eason that

section o~ the ~rans-Canada i·ras closed after the reconstruction of the highway was carried out, was because of the necessary work to be carried out on the overnass, and until the war~ on the overpass was conoleted thatthe '::'rans-Canada ::ig:11·iay

section '"ould J:::e closed ::tnd t~;.e :iiversion Hould te used until that time. The reason w~y the overpass was being done was because on insnection ty the engineers they felt that this <:dorJ.: had to he carried out ~~1ether it was ~one then or done in the earlv ~art of this vear. 1977 in the Snring. r.;£ felt - it ~·las a decision r:1.ade by the denart."nent to carr·~' out tr.e necessary Fork last veaz:, last Fall by neans o: a;,·rarding a con tract to a cor:many, I think it Has Solid Construction fro~ Corner Break.

So that was the reason ~hv the read 1.-:as closed after the Trans-Canada i:Iirrh~·;ay '.jas :J.n<}'r3..ded_ and reconstructed to prevent any further rec~rrence o~ f lood.incr. It \i3.S closed because of necessary \· 'Or 1 ~ \Jeing done en the ovcrrass, ves. questioner. road ':laS closed f0r 3.n extra three P.':Onths a.nd the joJ:- c,.:a_s . ' .

Ar:ril 22, l977 ·' Tc.ne Par.re 3 -- a.nb ~r~. FLIGF':': :i.eteriorated. :~m·.r :::y question, ~!r. S!Je3.}::er, lS t~ere are a lot of overn2sses ln ~ewfoundland that were built Drior to that one, ~~Tere inspections carried out on all t~e other overnasses to see if thev are safe for t:;.e tvCJe o>: traffic that t~at one '"ould have ~ad to taJ:e? :·IR. SPEAKER: 'lhe hen. the ~Unister of Trans~ortation and Co~.unications. Yes, :·rr. ST"~ea}:er, I cD nrou.5 to say that we ~ave a very co~r:etent ane ahle ensineering division in the D£cartcent a~ Transnortation anC.

Cor:u"':lunications and they are on a continuing basis, not only ~onitorina the strenryth of the roadbed throuqh- out the Trans-Canada and other areas of the Province, with a rossibilit y in ~any areas of rlacin0 half-load lir.ci ts ~as we sa1:v in the Baie Verte Peninsula recen tl? '.'li tl1 verv severe restrictions : but thev also carrv out continuinr.r insnections of the overnasses and ~ridges whether it be on the Trans-Canada Eighway or on secondarv roa.C.s.

That lS a nroaranile tl1at lS being done on a continuing basis hy the engineerinq division and anv ins....,ection '.-There thev find t.hat rriC:.aes - ~ -· .. ha·v·e to be renlaced 1 !:rhere thev feel it is t-,a zarC:o:1s anc dangerous, ~·ih·ere t::s ~1ea V::i' vel":icles are ~1s ir.<:; it, 0hether it be school buses or at~er~?ise, t~ese reverts corr.e to r~e~ the :1iniste!:', ar!c..1 to the .:1e0ut.·{ 2inist2r ar:c >.ear. ;r:~.. FLIGII'I': A S!.1pn lefl1en tary, Sr'eaker. nne additional sun~lenentary~ ~~uld the ninister . c J...' ln·_c~·t L...rle ::ouse i£ t~1at as a result o~ his i:!ST)ections. f\re there

1977, any overpasses or bridges ln t~e Province now t~at are d~e for resur~acing or rerailing? 'rn _ .. .:..\.. the ~~i::1ister of ~ransportatiorl ancl Cor.:rr·1u:1icatiorts . Vo ·;r -~S I . --. .S"C'ea}:er, to have a substantial briCge buildin~ ~ridge reconstruction and resurfacing of bridae decks t ' . s .:.1~s ;_u:'.;.-:J.er. T~e ~riorities I will be caking decisions the en~ineerincr division wit~ re~ards ~o t~e nrl~aes · .. •tich are c~anqerous throus-~!.out t;,.c ?rov:i.nce. : i?.. SP EAI~E?~ : The hon. the ne::..ber for .St.

George's followed bv the hon. the nevbers for LaPoile anc Stephenville. :IRS. :U'.CISAAC: :'rr. Speaker, ::ty question is for the hon. the ~"!inister of TransDortation and CoDD.unications. In reply to a ~uestion yesterday, I believe the ninister said that he had ;:net Hi th t2le CJ ·:ariDe Service to C:.i.:;cuss the ferry service or the Gulf. I aM wondering if the _:Jro:'osal subDi tteC:. or -aut for~·:ard bv C~ :rarine Service is satisfactorv to the governr;1ent, if ~-re can e:rnect :=mv upg-rading of senrice on the Gulf t:1is year? The hon. the ~~inister of Trans!?ortation and Communications:

~pril ..,,., --' 1977 Tape no. 1825 Page 1 - ms l 'R. ~fORGAL\1: ~rr. Speaker, o. couple of days ago in ~act the officials of C}! 1-!arine informed the Department of Transportation and Conmunications of their planned pro~ramne with regards to the operations o£ the Gulf ferry t~1is Su11rrner.

And I am convinced as a result of the meetings ~1eld "tvith CN ~!arine by my colleague the :--1inister of Tourism and,mysel£ over the past number of months, since last Fall - nnd these meetings -;.;ere convened mainly because of last year, last Summer there uere a considerable number of complaints regarding overcrowding on the boats on the Gulf and inadequate accommodations, etc., an overall number of cooplaints of the overall operations- these meetings resulted in ~-1hat I feel to be improved service except there are some qualifications on th~~. and one of them has been brought to light by my col!eague from the Placentia district. 7he hon. gentle!llan pointed out to me ·that that service to Ar3entia may not be up to par as it should be.

But on the Gulf from North Sydney to Port aux I3asques t:1is year there Hill be three crossings ner day from each terminal, going ';-lest and going East. And as of June 25 until August 30-or August 29 rather, that ~or the sixteen day period there will be four crossings per day this year. And, of course, r.-1e are expecting increased activity '"ith the 1977 Summer Games taking place in t!Le Province, in St. John's. But this year there is going to be a full reservation system. And <·le agreed to this. I agreed as minister and my colleague did as well.

Last year there ~Jas a reservation system only on the night cr•ssing. This year there \vill be full reservations. There will be no increase in fares. ~ut there will be a change in the- last year they put on an increase in fares during the weekend, Friday, S,<turday a-c.d Sunday~at a hig!1er rate than t~e rest of t:le ':·reek. There uill be. a change t~1is year, \·:h ich mea-r!.s that they are going to have these higher rates on Saturday, Sunday and :-ronclay, and they are trying to spread out the traffic. over tl1e •.:ee1'."

April 22, 1977 Al'{ HON. 1·fE:-ffiER: :rn.. :fORGAN: Tape no. 1325 Page Z - rns \fua t time c,re they supposed to leave ? TI1e final exact details I have not got, Mr. Speaker, but I thought the sufficient details had been put fon1ard. :-!R. HORG.A.N: Do not tell us that the minister does not kno~ that. (;ut, Hr. Speaker, t:1e Gulf ferr:r service is no laugh. It is a very important matter. It is one of our ~ain links to the mainland, a vital link. :-1R. ROBE:US : Do not make the minister laugh. ~ LR. iiCRGAii: \vhat I am saying, (fr.

Speaker - if the hon. gentleman from the Opposition, if ~1e \vants to l!'..ake a laugh of the matter, I am sure his colleague from the \·/estern part of the Province does not think it is a laughing matter. MR. ROBERTS : Neither do I. ~IR. ~'!ORGA~: If the hon. gentleman does not -.;,1ant his colleague to get the information, I \.Jill just sit dmm. i·lR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The han. member for LaPoile. ~1R. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, my question is to the Act:.ag ~~inis ter of ~Ianpm-1er and - ~·rR. :·10RGA1\f: HR. SPEAKER: :.t;R. NO RG&\f: ~1r. Speaker, on a point of order. A point of order. ~1r.

Speaker, I \Jas attempting to supply the information to a question \.Jhich \vas asked hy the hon. nenber of the House from St. George 1 s. HR. SPEAKER: I had assumed that the hon. gentleman had in fact completed the ansHer. l'!o, ~-1r. Speaker, I \las interrupted by t~e Leader of the Opposition. I.!R. ROBERTS: ~Ir. Speaker, to that point of order. "R. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Oppositicn. ~m. . I<.OBER':'S: ~·fr. Speaker, Your Honour recognized tl'le ger..tler:1an from LaPoile (:~r. Neary) tvho should surely be allo~ve.d to ask his C]_ues ticn.

April 1977 TaPe no. 1825 Page 3 - ms :1""... ROBERTS: TI1e hon. minister may have been attempting to give information. I do not fault t!1~t. ~Je cannot judge his attenpt. :ve can only judge the results, Sir. And accordingly I think Your Honour did e...'Cactly the right t~ing in recognizing the gentleman from LaPoile. SO~IE HO~. ~1E~ffiERS: Hear, hear! 'ffi, SPE~~ZER: On the point of order. There '"as a question asked by the hon. me.l!1h ~r for St. George r s, ans•ver given by the han. :-:~inister.

After the oassage of a certain a.."1lount of time} the remarks of tt;.e hon. gentleman seem to have been deflected from the ans\ver, and I assumed that he had completed his ans\ver, and before sitting dmm r.vas making a fe"t-J peripheral remarks. SmlE HON. ~'tTiffiERS : Hear, hear: :·!R. S?EAKER: I recognize the hon. gentleman for LaPoile. And if t.:e does not get his question out quickly, the time will he un. HR. NE.~.'\.:!l'! : Hr. Speaker, my question is for the Acting ~finister of Hanpower and Indus trial Relations. I believe the minister is just outside the House here, Sir.

I do not knm,; i£ the minister can hear me or not. The Ninister of :·(anpower and Industrial Relations. SOHE HON. HE~ffiERS: Oh, oh! ~ffi.. NOL.AN: Point of order, '1r. Speaker. I cannot hear what the hon. member is saying. ~·!R . : liARY : Hr. Speaker, all right, if the ~-finis ter of \~an·w~•er and Indus trial Relations is not there, can I get bac:( at he ~·Hnister of Rural Development. Yes, the 'linister of ~lq_rpo""'er and Indus trial Relations is coming :l.OH. I~ is a ra1:her ~1portant question that I want to put to the minister.

Would the minister tell t~e House if tlte ::::lepart:'!lent of ~·fanpoHer and Inclns;:t;rial Relations hc>.ve !'lade any attarnpt to get to the ~ottcm of the industrial accident, the construction accident

April 22 , 1977 ~ ffi . 'NEAP.'! : ~al !:ing . ~ffi. . ROBERTS : SO~·!E HON . ~!E>ffiERS : ":-'R . SPEAKER : l l'.. ~iO LA ... \1 : YR . SPE.\.:-\:E.R: :li s 'lues cion . ').ffi . FLH.RT : ~ tR • ~TE..'\RY : Tape no . 1325 Page 4 - ms ~r . Speaker, I can har dly ~ear myself >!r. Speaker, it is terrible w-hat is going on . Oh , oh! Or der. please! T~e ~~nister of Tra ns portation . The ho n . gen~ l eman can carry on ~;i~:. The ~·1 iniste r of Tronsportacion . ~1r . Speal~er, c ould I have silence? ·­'

~oril 22, 1977, Tape 1326 1 ~aae 1 -- ~Dh It is a very, very uraent matter~ it ~s a verv iDnortant a~estion, it is not this foolish nonsense we have been carryinq on for the last fifteen or t'•ientv !!l.inutes. SOPE HO:r. :u:~IDi:RS : Eear, :-:ear! It has to do uith thL inc~ustrial accident at '~undy Pond in ~1hich b•TO men lost t:l.eir lives.

I am as~inq the minister if there has :-.:.·2e:-J. any attenpt bv t>,e r:-.inister' s '1er-1art."'"1ent to r:et bottom of this construction accident~to =ir:5 out if there t,;as 'lery _?oor constr~ctio;:;. _':'ractices involved, very ooor engineering nrocedures carried out in this particular incident, and just what is being " ? cone. \·Jill there be any charges of criminal negligence or any other charges laid against the contractor in this case? r~R. SPEAKER: 7l1e hon. the :Unister of ·~annm·rer and Industrial Relations. ~1r. Speaker, I cannot give the hon.

Denber a detailed ans'.·ier to that ver'.r detai leC. .._. ques'-~on. I have not been involved as ~·· • • J.. ac'-~nt; P.ll".ls'-er all that r.mch in the depart."Tlent except on eJ.',ergency situations. I will try to get the answer for the han. menber and hopefully· the ninister of the denartr:"ent ':?i 11 be back within another day or so and will be ahle to nrovide the answer =or him ~ersonally. ORD:LRS 0P 7riE DAY. '~?... SPI:.P.KI:R: 0rder l, t~e adjourned ~ebate S0i'1E HON. I1E!~I:ERS · ::ear. !-lear! ~tr. Snea}::er~ I ta~:e it :':ror tl1at t~at sane hon. ~e~~ers enjoved t~e ~is~ stories last

_;.pril 1977 .. -,ory~ ...L.. _.1- ·- : ~TR. G0 UD IE : I understand t~at I have eig~t or ni:1e ninutes left to offer sor::e cor:-nents <1nc.~ I ua.r, tee:. to expand a little r.ore en a crues tion t::vl. t '-laS T~e rnerc~ber !JOinted out that h.e :--cad :-teard co~.ents at ?.i'!er ~·~,J.t Inc-:i.::tn T"ecrnle in C"ez~.eral ~\·.~ere laz~ 7 JUS"C 0ointir..g out that sorr1eone >.ad said tl1a t to :1i.!.Ct. ~1~. HIDEOUT: That ~ila s \·!~at he heard . ftR. GOUDIE : Yes.

If I can just offer sor.e ki:J.d of a general com...7,ent, not only regard.incr t:;.e Indians, but the Inili t as I a-n sure the :.:e!:l.l;er from ~agle River {'~. Strachan) ls aware, and neonle senerally ln Labrador who ~ad to live o~f t~e land as ~eonl·e frcm the Island liv.ed .c.c O.c...L sea in prosecucin0 a livelihood, '>JOr}:::inc;, as· one hon. f"lernber - I· J;_ave forgotten whic~ one - pointe~ out last ni~~t, fro~ I ]::.nov r:1v parents ~.-Joule. not i1ave r:mr::ec.1 on Sunda'l' and I JouLt if anv otl1er :;arent in tb.is Province fifteen or their religions and evervt~ing else.

DeO!Jle can be called lazv. anc vere ~~,avinq so!'le O)roble..T'1s ajj ustinrr to t.~a t. re£ercnce to t::is o:=::ici.~2.l-_, Resources Advisory Council a~ter its ~irst ?ear of - --~ . :· -,

?aqe 3 - - a!?i.:. • f'""l cnar~tio:1. It '.!as ::'.l~.::e.= a ~ear ago a~d I understand it ~ill be ~~~~ed acai~ ~or t~e cc::1ing year .

It:.s role, I t2:in!:, i1: .=.a!~.:-aC.or is i~~orta~t in ~~at it is a =or·Jh. fer discussion, =or ;:;;akins recoa":\e:lda tions and ! :.:;.i.:1~: it:. ··:ill be a unifying =orce in La~ra~or and a uni=ying =orce ~etwee:1 t:1e tHo ;:arts of the Province, because I t~ i n~ it is a verv pos itive or'?'aniz. =.tio n . :i ghtee~ ~eeti.:1~s ~ere callce in last yea.:- i:1 .:.atra~cr a~c I s·..lre anv hen . :7\e.-:t;:;ers ~·l~O tra velleC. -co Lat-ra.dor i- -·- t~e last cou~le of years will realize ~~at ~a r~icularly d~ r ing Fall a~d ~ inter - in Fall ane SPring, I am sorry ,and sone !?ar ts of :Tinter - t::at is an extrer .ely ~i=ficult =eat to do 1 to qet reoresentatives ~ron ever7 cornmunitv in .Wabra<.lor to one central 00int , a~c that, I t~ink . was a yeonan's job that was 1Ell ~one . ~ut the roin t I a.r.. ~a}:ing is that t~e ~esourc es Adviso r y Council is nade un of re~res entati·.Jes ~ =o~ every cor::..."'::unit:r in Labraior , ,.-. ~

and. t:Cere 'cas not be~r. J.S ri.nc':l >.:"enre.sentc>.ti'Jr_ fro~ our future in Lahr;ldor Pe ::.2.ve to think of the rene~.;rable and non-:-ene,..rable resources as eve do in other parts of ::,e Province, I t""ould i ust lil-ce to cucte from :::-:is tiocui'2.e!'.t O'.J.tlinir.s ~he oosition which I ~elieve to ~e a resronsible ~osition on resources, and if I !"lay (:Uote directly: '1T·7e live '"here '·7e do :;ecause au!" local resources dict~te~ the skills and outlook of ou!" reonle. Iducation, ai~ service, television and unem~loyment insurance ':lave not fundameP.tally c':lan2;ed tl:.is.

Fishi:1g is still t~le b.:tsis of our economv, But low prices, our denendence on noorly organized aDd exploited fish buyers,an~ ~ore recently rtenleted catcbes ~ave al~avs made it difficult to earn a years living fron a six month ~ishe.!'Y. So rv12. sunnlement 01..1r incor7te 1:1it:, ,.._7h.1.te.1.Ter ttc J..e.nd t:.:l'' offer, rteat and berries for t~.e table, fur for cash,anC. i·mod for our boats, ~harfs, houses and fuel, It is t~e fully integrated use of lccal r~sources and t,.e lanrl se?_!·~es our fisLv~ry ncssible." 11 This is not an ohsclete and unproductive · . .;ay 0f life.

At t~e heights of our ins~·10re fishery ,.;e c·le::-e nroc 1.ucing t':·Tenty-five tons of fish oer man r..rith primative statio~ary '-lere . . At todav's Pt'ice this catch v..10uld represent an incoT:'.e of more t~an $~,1')!ln even sold fres~ in the raHest nossihle fo'!:1'1. in this f-ron cod alone. Today on an averai!e \oJe .c;et t':· 7 n-t~-cirds o:: our i~co~e fro~ salmon.

If the Coast of La'Jracor nm.J jrav.~s ::wre :Ero!Tl t"1e Provinci.?.l 9.r,d national economy t~1a:1 it contri'jutes; it is ~n~ because ~anada was too husy hein~ nice Rhroad to defenc the livelihood of our ;;:c>.st Co,~.st fishemen, 'I':o.is nic.ture is ch_an?:in~ C.iversified inshore fisher~ will ~ring us full boats n~d nlentiful '-· 1

.-\Tiril 1~77 iobs ashore, ~:e ~,Tould 'Je blind to risk t~is for t~e elusive short-tem benefits of flunkv 4oi;s in nonrene~·Jnble resource rroiects. So wou:d the Province. or even a f.:1ir bar~ain Hi.th 'TI.a.ior investors from outside the Pro•rince.

Generous concessions, guaranteed loans, subsiC.ized ryo~·!er, lo~.; royalities and mininal taxes, environnental '.lamag;e, bc.n~,::ruutcv and sheepis:,. re~ret have been t~1e pattern so far, \g.:>.i.nst this ~ackground r .• ;e cannot believe the Province h"i.ll qain and '·7e are certain ;?e ~vonld lose if our rene~·.rable resource l:ased eccnorn~r is sacrificed or t!l.reatened 'cv other industrial activity, \~e believe this not only explains hut fully justifies 'vhat "'lay seem <' contrary .:md selfish al1Droac1:1 to the development of our nonrener.val-,le resources. ~e do not wish to horde Labrador's ~ineral wealth but to see it in balance, ·· and I think that is a very L-uportant point in this report. 11 ~fineral and petroleum deposits :,m.Jever vast ::.a"le a limit.

If •·7e man.a.p;e it ~vis ely our fis:1er;r does net. '·1e can multinly a i/;OOd average annual catch "by a century, a 'T'.oO.est fraction of the ryeri.od of extensive fishin~ b. the ~Torthwes t Atl.;;.ntic, then loolc at it in t':1e context of a 'vorld th;o_t: is hun"'"!:'V f0r r:rotei::: as it is for energy,and then wei~~ it ~~ainst not the value of our oil, natural gas and uraniill'l, but ~-Ihc>.t the Province can ex-pect to ~et fro~ the l:lio; com?anies 1·7ho are anxi_ous to ezploi t t~1ese der-osits.

FraT", this TJersi'ective the vie'.:r chan;?,es a z.ood deal." I\ r.!e rlo not insist t!:at t~e .q: ()'le'ITme~. t necessarily choose one for-:1 of resource. de,.relonnent 0"7~!' t~~ c:ther 7 'hut tl-'2t .; ~ :'.ct s~uh~0rn, .s enti,.,ent~.J- or ::,::tc!-:vre. rd but tl:le >T~OSt e.lemeP.tarv f.cod sense."

.., .. -- > 1'17 .. - I I 10"~; 3 'iocument . :.ast -i t:r'~" ... a_ ... -1... ~i :f er.ent ~ulcure ~ ecause of our et~nic b~ckg~ouncs , ~ecaus e of our lifestvle, an~ t!':::.t !I t·:oul~ su~gesr. can :-.e clai:nec ~Y anv ryart o: t=:: ?:-ovince . •:e ic. !.abra~or c1..ai: it for our oar.t of of :::.~ fu t~e o !' t~is ?:-ovi:-tce anc r,erl-.:>.ns o: Ca~aca -.ay ver;1 ~:ell relv or Eall bac 1< Or!. the resouz:-ces , the I')Otent i2.l :-esources to be deve~oved at so~e poin: in our : utur e i:1 Lah:-acor. All we are askin~

\'Tl • en r '1"\ IE : · t ,.., · ci f r 1, b · h lS r . ,.e ,-eco.~nlze or ""'.·at ~ ... 'e ave . een ln t e p:'l.st~ ~-~hat ~-;e can contril:>ute in the future.and t,_,at by T"a~·ing: the rif!:bt clecj Sions govero:ments~.fececal and rrovincia 1. ] euels 0f P'OVermrents, can certainly nroseq.tte the c'e'-'e]o~!"ent of thesP. resources T".uch ~0re n0sitively aPd T"uch rore ~eneficiallv t~a~ thev have been in the past. Tf-:ank y 0 ,_1,"r. Spea~·er. ~"T'.SPEAY:F"': 'H'on. TI"e'!"1ber for Phi.te Bay. J.,ave <1 fe•-7 r.·ords to sav a!-.nnt vour rlistric~ Anr1 .~o on.

"ut: r.e Fore r en ioyec his rerrarl<-.s verv T"nch ] P.st night ;n'.d the concJ.utHng remarks this !'lomira~. I thi.nk he dicl an exceJleT"t _i0l:- anr:1 spolre from the heart and I c>.m snre th<.>.t "tole aJl enjoyed his reTT'arks. In risiP~ t0 .'3ay a fe•,, "'orcls in this deb.?.te, Sir, T ha~ hcpecl that I wnu]~ not rave to go through the pain of it.

J thought the arrninistration T"!ip.:ht take the advice fro!" :'lY co1leag:ne J Cl.st n ir-ht'~ tf>e !"'el""her for Bellvue ~and hv the tii"'e this IT'orning rol1 ec arounc thev F011lc1 h;:nre resi»,ne(l' 9nd I FOU1.r not hwe to ~o thrcn9'h the pain of makina- those fe~-J p::~rtjcuJar rei"'arl<.s. :'nt seeing they r.qve not ci.nne that I suppose I ,,Till ha,Te to ~eat at it C'nce again.

Novr, Si.-r-, rasjc.::Jllv in the rlistrict that I renresent} the r1i.strict of P,a5e ~'erte - T-7hite Bay,there:> are t1.m "asic neecis t~at t~e ri strict is in 17ery <>:Teat need of <'lnc J--.oth of thPI"' ha"'e to do r,;ith the ir;prrwerent of rmblic services jn anci arour.r the district. fTne11"fl]O;nr'ent as such is not a r-re::~t pro'hlet:l in the oner<Jtjons there-! ,.d.JJ say !"0re ahout l-r;">t a little Jater- :::-~:': ~t tltis Darticular point in ti!"e t!,ev are nrovi~ing ner!l'anent .. -

'T'ape 1828 T p_.., -4 .J - • At puhlic servj_ces jn the nistrict r.'f? are in cle,.,~era.te nee.cl. alJ .?rm.mc the clistrict of pnr:-lic .~erv:i.ces in t·po areas, nart:i.cularlv T'OelO reconstruct~on U'f'~radin<;> anr4 pa,_rin?, anr jn t}"le installation of ~at~r ~nd ~e~er s~ste~s. ! intenr4 tn take a a~ic~ exist. It is sort of a coincidence,T ~~r~ose Sir, if I r~~e~her correctlv, if lllY l"'ind sen•es !!'le r-?ell, that snea~~ing the c!i strict speecl; I p:ave J sst year was on a F'ric'c.v TT'orninf. at c.~out tJ,.is sat"'e til"'e of the year.

So,_T al"' a fri~av l"!an butt ~ope t~c.t the fev FllrC.s T h;we to sav 1d ll f.,_J.l- en l"n..-.e pos j t ive ears than they c1 i.e last year and tbnt if I speak. friCay ~C'Irn.i . n.<! next yea.r T ~::-i1..l '.:e able to sav that a few things have been accol"!n1isherl.

T.n the northern part of the <'istrict~Sir- I bane o!'le of those rlistricts that wy fr~encl referred to 1ast ni~ht that was r.err~TTT'.andered or ";'ranki .!:'andererl, c.?hatever you I·Jant to call i. t it \vas certainlv choonecl un in <t p:reat t-ray.a]l the Baie ~·erre as yo11 go to Harhour reeo, Bi r:le Arm, Podclickton A.nri fng1 ee. /1 full nine hour ~rive. A.

FuJJ ~av frol"' ~aie uerte to ~et ~o~~ to the there as much as you <·roulo li!:e,lJut that is the geop.:rapby situation and that js tl->e reaUty oi= tl:e situation ancl T suppose vou have t.o live r,;ith H. area one 0f tl·e rreatest nee~s is the nngrad:ing ap_c eventual oavi.ng

\prE 22, 1'=177. ""ape lP.28 T.'.:! -~ . t:--ere is a fis~ o.lant Oi"eratin~Z <!..t f.uJl capad t'' duri~t> tbe - "' . . \ ;;nr!"ler ti'r.'e -?.t !':n.~lee . Sn all the ~ish procucts, alJ the fish ?T~"'Cuce ras to l)e hatt.l erl into t!'<'t corn,..,u.-., ity over that 52 ril~s nf roacl -a l0t of i.t is h.au!er' i.n - .::tnr' of course> all the pro~uc:: is h.:mJ ed out over. tl-t;~.t -roar!. ~r tr~ t in i.tsel E the to"'c ~as)vou ~no9, !erious a~~ ~rave econo~ic irplications for that ' 1 part :tcu.ar ?rea . In a~fition to t~a t , in ar'~it ion to the fisb i tsP.li . So that vou have hea'ry t'l"'\td·s continuous} .y ci rf\r ing over that 52 mile

section of r:oR0 ancl particuJ arly at this ti.l"'e of tre year I al"' sure Sir, vou can :ima~jne t hat it is in pre tty terr ih1e shape . So one of the greRtest prioritie~ in t~e Pod~ick~nn, · . . )

~oril ~2, 1977, ~ane 1820, Pan~ 1 - - arb ,·:~. IUDE:OG'I' · :.l::'grade and ~ave t::1e "Eiftv-t' ·iO ~iles of road from Plun Point ~ow~ into that area . .:\nC:. let :':'.e say, Sir, I co not kno~·? hm~· 1.-.rell f:1e.nL~ers of the 3:ouse knou that ~articular 2trea, but ue a:-e not ~al}:in.--:: a~out four -. ., - - ~ or : l ve ,;~.1nc:rec oeo~.1.e those cor.nunities.

Roddic~ton itself ~as • 1 • some-c.:1ln0 li~e 1,~00 or 1,300 ~eonle; Englee has something like 1,200; Bide rlrn 500 or 600 an~ in addition to that you have co!11T:1uni ties liY:e Conche and ::ain 2.:-ook., ·,._;';ic!::. are n.ot ln nv particular riding, but in ridi!:CT of the I..eaC.er o£ t~12 JD;:'OSi tion, all serveC. [.]? L:is particular road It is a I""aj or trunk road. There lS no doutt about t~at,and I do believe that the Province has to turn its attention to u~0radinq an~ paving that particular

section of road. is in need of an extension to its water and sewer syste."l. Last vear I do believe they ccrnnleted narts of it but it needs to be extended. ~he fish ~lant at E~~lee. Sir, is t~e econonic saviour of the ~n01Ge ~rea. no woods a,eration to nention, there is no ot~er industrv. really,to ~ention in the Znglee area itself excent for the fish "lant. S0 .the <.,rhole live2..ill0oc1 of those l-200 or 1,300 neonle who live there is totally 6enen~ent one Province e~is~s in the =n0lee area. it is run-down, it is worn-out. it '-1as T: allen a~·7av ~ror1 it.. sue!:. t::.at vou can no lon.0er ~rincr it across the har ~ our in s~all hoats an( t~Rn ~ . .. .. · ·~ .

?.pr il 1977: ~a:oe 1 0.., a ......... ·-' -- ..# I P a.c:e 2 loaC. it on tr"J.cLs a:1d cret it out that :·.'av. It is certainlv in ~es~erate ~eee of ?isC~eri·~S ~.:oulcJ. turn t~1eir 2ttention to ca~:_-- ~ rir. ~ o:_.1-:_ sore re"'Jairs to that ~lant ~ecause as I Sir, it is t~e econooic saviour of t~e ~nglee area. :;ithout the fish ?lant Englee will not have a reason to e~:ist, it certainlv ~muLl. not ha~Te an eco!"'.or,ic re2.so:u. to e:-:ist. En~lee itself is also ln nee( at this ti~e of a stabilization, I sunnose is the oroner ~-;ord, o: t~1e necJ ical services in that CO:-'I:""t'.lni tv.

I want to tell a little story ~ere, c· ~,lr, that r:av be ar.msinc. During the election ca.1:1.paign in 1975, t~e nursing station at Englee was reonened. ~Tm-r it ':ad ~)een closed doun or closeG. out £or I c1o not J.:no~·' hc1·: lor..g, because I 1vas not very far'C'.ilia.r ':Ii th tha. t area before I tecar1e elected as t.he !'le.mber. 3ut I do know i~ was closed out for some vears.

Five or six or eiaht or ter.. years it ':las closed out, t::.ere '.ras I'..O nurse stationec'. in r:::nglee.. the· ;-eoDle ':!ho reauired r::.edical attention l:::td to drive the twelve 77liles to Roddickton !;Jhere t.:,erc was a central, small hospital-ty?e oneration operated by I.~ .A.

So during the election ca~naign the snecial assistant to the Premier, ~·!:Co just hannened to he the candijate in t~at district, arrived down there and, o~ course, that \las brought to his attention and he attei::nted to do scuet~inq about He ca.I'1.e ~ad: to St. n.ac~ it anc: nlaced in t:1e station, oh about ~"l.al.f ~.:a.u tl'rrow;h ::::--.~ Unfortunatelv that CJ2I: tlcn:1an lost .L.." t...:le election -3.nd the "::."or~l "ide ha"~..re fro::t ver:' relia.blo. sources, anc~ ~ talt:ec~ to t:12 :Jerart'""\ent of Eealth about th_i_s, lS t:-:at tl1ey are nmt ~lanning to null the nurse out again.

...,'"' LL..: 1977, TaDe 182?, Pa.<;e 3 an~ ~ r mv, Sir.. you can use all kinds o~ flowerv lan0uage to describe t~at tv~e . of action you 't?ant,. but it onlv coi'"~ es ~m·m to nolitical blacb:.ail in T71 Y boo~-:s. =ecause if t:1at station is closed again ln ~nglee just because t ::.e rro•Jerr....:-:ler:.t candidate did not win the election, then , Sir, that is :_;o li tical blackrr,ail. I ho9e it does not hap~en. I have made strong re~resentation to the ninister and to I.(';.,;,. It is not the ~ault of I.G.A. the station ~ · ;as reopenec over the objections of I.

G.""-. , and I a~ sorry to say, really , t:'1at the :~inister o~ I:ealt:C: at the til:' ,e - r::.y friend from 2:ilbriC.e uas the :Iinister of Health - I did not really think he would be party to any such thing, but obviouslv he nust have been. So the station was reonened over the objections o~ I.G.A. I. C-.

P... never '.ran tee: it opened because they wanted the centralized situation l·_1'1_ noc."r1 ic1- ...... nn 1J·u+- .:... 11at l't ,..,, '-Jesi ·.;;e .... ~,e noi1'1'- It L '1. _(. - ...;" !_. \,_., J. / j - \-.!, t.... ...I.. ..J... • ...- -.....~ .__ • .t '-- J. a ._ • was reopened, a nurse was placed in there, and, Sir, tllere i·Jill be one hell of a racket if t:!e y ever try to close it down a~ain.

I die !'lot asl: to ha•.~e it reo~ened but I Qo know - in fact there was a letter uent door to door in the tmm of Eng lee and tr.e heading of it was , ''Office of the Premier -· I ha,le a COf''' of it in m~.T files - 'Office of the Preoier ·· 2n ~ j_ ~ \·l;J..S Era~~ the candidate r ., ~o ~.ror~::ec2 i~1 t:,_e ~rer.ie:- Is office at t;;.a:: tiiJ. e, an-::1 still does a.s far 3.S I l~no':.', sayi~~ that he had rnaae re0resentatio~ to t~e Cabi~et n u rsi~ 0 station at ~n 0 l e e ~ ~s to te renn c n c ~ i:~2C~ a telv, i r - ·:::> '· . -~ ~~ --") .......... ,;

April 'J'l ,;_J...' 19 77 )fR. RIDEOlJT: Tape no. 1830 Page 1 - !!lS In the Bide Arn area, Sir, a great pri~rity should be to further utilize the govermnent facility that is there at the monent. I say ··government facility" beca:.:se the Reid Products Limited o•.tilt a ?art of a fish plant in 3icle Am some years ago but it has since., I understand, been reposs~ssed or taken back by the Department of Industrial Development. So there is no an economic base for t~at community at all.

Nm.,r I am not sure there could be a~ economic base totally on the fishery alone. ~ut certainl y the fish plant facility that is there could possibly be utilized for pickling; the pickling of herring and mackerel and t~1a t type of thing. and also there could be some effort put into a further utilization of the forest industry in and around that community so ~1as to give it an economic base or reason to exist. ~·m. !:liNN: (Inaudible). ~1R. RIDEOUT: Thank the ~'finis ter of ~'lunicipal Affairs.

Sir, last year I made a strong plea dozens of times in this House for a start, at least a start, on the reconstruction of a road to Harbour Deep. Harbour Deep is the only community in my district that does not have a road connection. There · are between 400 and 500 people living there. And I am afraid that Harbour Deep will die unless we begin to break the isolation barrier that exists there today.

The younger people are not going back there after they have completed their education, and of :curse all members of the House know that once the young people decide to leave permanently a community~then the ultimate end of that community has to be that it will die. I think, Sir, it :.;oul i be a crime if ue allow th.:1 t to happen. The peo-ple of ~arbour Deep, whom I have come to know very well over the last yEar ~nd one-half~are the most viciously independent people I '1ave ever met or come to know in my life time. They are not dcpender t on the government for anything. In fact it is one of the ., , .. - ~ )

April 22, 197 7 Tape no. 1830 Page 2 - ms :!!r . Rideau t . communities in my district that I hear the least from. You get very fe~; phone calls or complaints from Harbour Deep. 'E'l.e people ~re so independent that they have been used co making their ow~ living this last hundreds of ye~rs since Rarbour Deep has been a community. Eut as I have suggested 1 the younger people are not staying there, and the reason they are not staying there is because of the isolation barrier. ~Jm..r in and around P.:arbour Deep there are :nillions of cords of '.vood that can be harvested.

In fact I heard rumours last year of some of it going to keep the mill going at Har.1kes Bay, a great idea. And, of course, if a: road ~.;ere pushed into that area, and it l-7ou1d have to come in from the Ha~vkes Bay area, if a road 1vere pushed into that area then it 'N"Ould do just that. It 1vo:1ld do t-.:.;o things~ It would break the isolation barrier in Harbour Deep; it wouldalso open up one of the ~ast, I suppose, untouched reserves of the forest resource that we have in this Province.

It should be a great provincial priority building a road into Harbour Deep. 3ut to go back on the Baie Verte Peninsula, \-lestport, Seal Cove, Vlild Cove, Baie Verte, all the communities on the Baie Verte Peninsula, as I have indicated a fe.;.; minutes ago, are in desperate need of two basic services. That is road recom;truction, upgrading and eventual paving. And 1ve do not expect to have it all fin~shed by September, Sir. In fact we do not expect to have it all finished by five more Septembers. But ,.,: ex?ec t to see ourselves placed somel-There on a priority scale in this ~rovince.

For the last five years there has not been one cent of provincial money, ne~..r provincial money, spent on the reconstruction and upg:-ading and paving of roads on the Baie Verte Per.insul:t. The LaScie high~:..ray ,,ras done under a ninety/ten DREE 1~recment. So Hhatever the ten per cent vras came from the Province.

.,., ...... , 19i7 Tape no . 1830 Page 3 - ns ~[r . Rideo ut. T:le Baie Verte high\·lay, eigh:: or ten or tHelve yea rs ago first ~.;h en DREE came into existence, Has done u~de r ::he saree kind of agr eemen t.

And s i:1c e th.:lt t i:-ae there has no c: been <lny ;>rovi:1cial ooney ~•ha r::soever, any net..r ?rovincial ::10:1ey, spen t on t he .re c o nstr uction and upgrading and eve ntuP.l paving of roads on the Ba ie Verte Penin sula . ~m-1 I intend t o go in t o that story in a li t t le hi t ncre depth a lit t le la ter en But every ccl!l.muni ty on the Baie Ver t e ?eninsula and sane ,of cours e, are great er ?r iorities rhan oc~-:.ers, b eca use of t he population livi ng in them or b ecause of t he number of men driving over t he roads to their ?er3anent joo s a t: Advo c ate, Rambler and so on .

Some are obvi ousl y on the priori ty scale than o t hers - but eve r y single communit y , every single r oad is in a despera te, need of some ~..r ork to oe done on i t and as I have indicat~d :-Je have not :1ad anyt!'ling done on it for the last five years , ami t hat is one of t he reasons that today you find the Seal Cove ~cad, the only road in t:he Province ivi t h a 5, 000 pound load li~i tar::i on on it . '...':1ter and

April 22, 1977. Tape 1831 RH - 1 sewer services, Sir, are desperately needed in practically every community on the Peninsula. Fleur de Lys has a system that is about three quarters completed. It was not funded last year, or the information r.ve were given last year is that it \·70uld therefore be funded this year. So we are keeping our fingers crossed on that one. Coachman's Cove has $365,000, I believe, in the ground through which not a drop of water has flown over the last three or four years since it r,;as put there.

That could lead us into a discussion, Sir, of consulting engineers and what in the hell they are doing and ripping off the Provincial Government of this Province. If l ;.;-ere the :1inist"er of Hunicipal Affairs I would have Gorman and Butler Associates hauled into my office and jumped on right in the middle of the floor because they have raped and ripped this Province wide open .in the small communities. They have gone into communities like Fleur de Lys and Coachman's Cove and ~Iippers Harbour until they were kicked out in my district~and they have wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars - A..~ HON.

ME1-1BER: Many times that amount. ~lR. RIDEOUT: ~-lell.,I am just talking about my own experience now. MR. CANNING: $600,000 out in Placentia. HR. RIDEOUT: Have have gone in and they have, instead of being the consultants that those people p~id so dearly for with their high fees, they have gone in there and let the people waste the money because the people did not know the difference. The people of Fleur de Lys never worked on a water and sewer system before. Gorman and Butler would allow them to blast the holes and lay the pipe and cover it in with a D8. That is not the way you lay water systems.

That is why there is $1.5 million spent today in Fleur de Lys and it is not completed. That is why there is $365,000 in the ground in Coachman's and not one drop of water going to either home there. ~Uppers Harbour was fortunate. They kicked them out when they were half way through their agreement. They got their water. And I am sure that has happened in dozens of communities around this

April 22, 1977. Tape 1831 RH - 2 :1R. RIDEOT.JT: Province. They should be hauled into court and made to pay back, if they have got any assets at all, pay back the dollars that they have robbed through their inefficiency off the people of this Province. I cannot be harsh enough on them, especially Gorman and Butler bPC-"ltt<:~ that is the crowd that I know all so well what the story is they have done on the Baie Verte Peninsula. Now, Sir, in addition to that we are also in need of some water extention in smaller communities, communities that are not incorporated, for example, the ~ommunity of Harbour Round.

I understand there are two artesian wells there that \·Jere drilled about t~.velve or fourteen years ago. The pumps are worn out completely. One of them cannot be used at all. I understand that the water services division have informed the water committee down there that they no longer replace those pumps. Well, Sir, who does replace those pumps? MR. DINN: The community . ~R. RIDEOUT: I see. So in a community with a water committee where you have two pumps, one on each end of the harbour, where you are not charging any water rates they are expected to pay $400 or $500 for a pump. Thst will be $1000 or so for two.

Pardon? MR. DINN: I will see what I can do about it. I do not think there is anything I can. I can put in a new system or I can you know, in the water - HR. RIDEOUT: I mean if there were water lines coming from those artesian wells and the people were paying a utility water rate,then I could see it. They would then be generating some revenue and, of course, they would then be able to afford to fix the system.

But the system that we have in a number of communities like that,and Harbour Round, I am sure, is not the only one where the government came in or the Hater services division came in or somebody came in years ago, drilled a couple of wells and capped them and put a pump on them. ·-... ~ ... . ........

Apri 1 22, 1977. Tape 1831 RH - 3 MR. RIDEOUT: Now there has been no water fee charged. How do you replace them? There is no council there. They have nothing to go to. Pardon? MR. DINN: Only the water committee. MR. RIDEOUT: Only the water committee,and they have no source of revenue. There is no water tax. And, of course, you cannot charge for water tax. I mean there is no water pumped into people'' s homes. They just go there with the~r bucket and fill it up whenever they want a bucket of water. I think, Sir, it is a problem in Harbour Round. I know that. I was there only last week.

And I would assume it is a problem in a lot of other smaller communities around the Province. Sir, the community of Shoe Cove must be one of the most productive fishing communities in the Province for its size. Two million pounds of fish, that is just codfish alone, were shipped out of Shoe Cove last year td the La Scie plant. And the fighting and scratching, Sir, you got to do to get a bit. 6£ fresh water into that plant, is unbelievable. We were in here last year and. we finally got some money to get a plastic hose laid on- top of the ground down through the community :--.,.!I~ - '· _;_ ~ )

Anril .,., --' ~ape 1832 TV _ 1 ... rp RIDF0L:T: and :imm to the holcl.ing unit. .\nd of course, Sir, ~- ;'ten the cor·t!'lunity st::J.ge, the holding unit is onerating thnt means the.t the '>ntter Pressure t::.en feeding t~1e homes is not great enoug~1 nor.; from '·'ay un until !Jcto~er or ~:ove~ber r,ihenever the fish.in~ season is over.

And t:1e only nroblem, the onlv reason Hhy it is SO is that the ~.rater sy-ste.1·1 feecing the COT"..I1:1.UI"!.ity ana feeding the cornnunity s::age is a syphon syste:"l, It is not a \?,:ra,Tity flmv syster:1,~ut it can 'Je turned into one for Sl.S,'I':Il or S2'"','":':'"' and re~resentation ~as been ~ade to t~e ~isheries ~eoortment he cause of the communi tv sta~e, and the ·,vater cm:unittee b~.s ':Jeen in touch Tvith ~-runicipal Affairs and it is all around a ci rcJ P. and the problem still exists. '~ • CAY~ DIG : A point of order. PaFdon! .\ point of order. n. L~. point of order. '~R.

CANNDTG: The han. member for Fogo asked how many should be sitting in the House ~ t the i'iO!Tten t. v-q_. SPEAKE.8 : r a cuorum call. 'fR. CA:-:li'H:.TG : '~. SPEP.XER : I understand thRt the han. mern~er h~s asked for T:'13.t is ri~ht. ~-Je do not :1.a'1e a renort from the Clerk yet so I believe three ~inutes it is has to elapse.

Refore the actual count I should perhn~s noint out that it is sometLTlles difficult, confusing for the c;-..air~ uhen counting ~•hether hon. ~e!t!.bers <·Tho are not in their seat but <-?l-:.o are ~·:it~in the precincts ~vish to he counted or not~ c?.nC I ~ - !~.s net hapnened to ~e the ~nly one in that si~udtion,but frequently t~~ere 'l.re seven or eig'-lt and it "'lakes it vecv d:i.fficult ,.;'Lether they ·- -

r\oril 22, 1':77 Tnne B32 .)f - 2 to ~e counted or ~ot o= ~he:her .:act they a r e entitled to ~e counted or ~ot . ·~ . ~~eaker , is it a fact :bat , ! nea~ i~ a ~erson :10t? 1'ha t is some !: ~i:1g which if it cal"\e uo I Hould have to ~ive serious considera t ion to, and orobabl., hear ar~ur~ent ~efore ::a1:in!! a S"'ecific decision . . ro. • (. -~L.'\~·! : leacer . T~ere is a quorum ,rese:1t I ~nC.ers ~ a:1~ . The hon . "!'!ember :or 3aie 11e r te- iihite '3?-y . ·~ . 0 !'JF.OU'!' : T~ank you , ·~ .

S~eaker . ~ ~? . . 1>10C1DRO~.J : ~ay I ask a oue s tion? '.ft! ' . ~!T)f.f)TJT : Yes , sure . \,1'0 ~·1t')f)!)R0H : .. '·fr. . '3neak e!' , th~ hot'! . :r'~her is makin~ a verv , 'Terv fine sneech anrl. really I re~ret t!'tat a n uort:!'l '·it?.S r.ot r-resP.r..t . even es!'ecially on his o'm side hut ho•,..ever ·.;hat I · . ..,ant to . c>.st.·. !'li."'! is this ·. --- -~ . ., '

April 22, 1977 Tape no. 1333 Page 1 - ms :.fr. Hoodrm ·;. In vie~.,r of the fact that he is tal1:ing especially about Hater services in his community, I am Hondering if he feels t:1at th£'re should not be more community effort? Nmv . I an rr.aking this point because I t:1ink really people are led to believe that goverr.ment should do everything. For example, in certain cmmnunities in my district the people are 1.rorking hard. They are ~aving dances, like. They are having card g~~es and bingos, and they have their little community halls rented out and so on.

I Hould like to get a remark from the hon. member on that side because he is a terrific member. And I do not think he should have said that it was unfortunate for the other m~ber not to be elected. ~robably it is fortunate to the people that he is elected. ~~R. ~.IDEOUT: lfr. Speaker, I do not kno~7 r..;rhat the hon. gentleman is getting at r,.;it~1 the last comment. I Hill certainly attempt - sm·'E }TnN. ~'"F~"BEPS: Oh, oh! ~!R. ;roonRm.J: Just a remark that is all. ~·lP..

RIDEOUT: - if he is trying to use up f•lY t:i..ue, I am ju~t banking on the assumption that I vill be granted the same accord as ;·e granted the hon. gentleman yesterday. .. But to get back to his question of what the peo ·1le are doing for themselves, they are doing everything that is possib lc to do for themselves. People canna t go out and borrm.J $1 '1illion and install a 1mter and se~..rer system or a water syste.TTI. 3ut t~1ere are communities in my district, no natter hm·J snall they are, it rrill cost $1 million to blast around them, and there are only a hal£ dozen families there.

But \vhat they are doing and ~Jhat th , ~y are prepared to do is to - this ne~.,r rate scale that t:1e m:i.nister's department sent out only the ot~er day, the comrn.unit:..es tiat I h~ve been made aware of that have applied for water and SE'~,1er sys terns for funding this year have gladly, overwhelmingly :::.ccep ted .~- ··; . \ )

April 22, 1977 Tape no 1833 Page 2 - ms :'fr. Rideau t. paying the price that the departnent has asked. \ ~""hat :aore can they do? '-fl'_. ~lEARY: That is c..rha t they all do. ~ · rR. RIDEOlJT: ?-.ight. But, you kno-vJ ) ~J7hat more can t~cey do? And let me say this to the hon. gentle~an. There is a gentleman in Round Harbour, in my district, who spent seven years and $2,200 to get a lvater system in his house. NoH tt1a t is the ki::1d of tvill, that is the kind of work that this one gentle.rnan had pur. in to ~;etting a bit of fresh water for h :L-nsel£ and his family.

He blasted his oHn r:2servoir out behind ~1is house, blasted out a big reservoir, a big catchrne!'.t basin. It took ·ni.I!l. seveu years and $2,200 1• to do it and every Sunday, because he \-Jaf: <.vorldng the rest of the 1veek, and every Sunday :1e did it. He shoHed it to me last week r.vhen I was down there. And it Has som'ething to see. The '"ill and the determination of that person to do the likes of that. But he has a Iva ter supply, and he is the only one. You knov;, everybody cannot do that type of thing.

Of course, there were, there 1..rould not be ·enough area in Round 3.arbour to hold enough catchment basins to start \.Jith, you l~nov;. But t'1at is the type of thing that they have done, and it is t ~ 1e type - you knotv, they are -v;illing to 1-10rk at it. \Vild _ Cove, for example. I '·7ent to the ;.J&ter Services Division last yezr and got a $500 grant for them to pay a bill for some nachim they hired, and they did the labour 3 free labour~ to extend tB.eir ;-1nt2r system. So do not anybody tell me, Sir, that t:,_e peo-ple .'lre not prepared to put something into it. They need help.

They need leadership and they need government ~oney. Eut ;ive t 1mt to t~em, and they are prepared to work at it, and they are pr2?>red to pay for it. A_\1 riO:/. :-:>-~ ~' ffiER: T!1e same thing is done in many districts. - . ~ IT'.. RIDE OUT: Yes. . J

Apr il 22, 1977 Tape no . 1333 Page J - OS :I . Rideout . :~ot-1 , S i~, to continue on I t.;an t to have a fev t;o r ds to say or. a couple of ot~e r comr:".unities . I t-ias ver;· encoura~ ed toda y in ansto~e r co a quesciorr I asked c3e :!ir:is ::e!' of ~is~<~ries to hear him say that the possibility look s rea l , it looks ver y good that t~ere may be s ome dragger s feeding the LaScie plant in the r:ear future . :~ot·T, Sir, that \·Tould ;,e a great ecor.cnic ooost ::o c:~e LaScie area. l)e cause ~..rhen yo u tal:;. a;,f'lct Baie Verte you are talking about :lining and t~1at ::.s all ~eople ever consider .

But lase s~er the LaSc ie fish plan t ~?loy~r almost as tn;-J.ny people as Advo cate Hines. 'Dey employee almost 50 0 employees from ~{ay up until Octo ber. So the economic impa ct of thac, of course, is ver y great on t he Baie Verte Peninsula especially t!'le communities i:1 and aroun •l the town of LaScie itself . So that if there '.vere a tra\vler or a couple of trawlers feeding that plant so as to extend the life of the plant even for another t:t,To or three months , then the economic impact of that, Sir, would be grea t for those particular cor.Jlluni ties .

So I do hope that the Ministe r o£ ?isher ies make s every effort co ensure that number one , the LaScie plan t is given to the ri;ht people to ope rate and I do not have any

part icular qual<ns about: Ne~v foundland Quick Freeze. I think on tne tvhole they have done ·- .: \ ··- ,

")"' .c..-. 1977.- a fairlv rrood e.::1sure that ClesDite - t!"le lease is ou-:. _:, ~ "!..-. j .L.•' t ,..._; ('""' J.J._.._, :2ut to year, it is out nc~T - so '.ie rmst ensure that it cro~s to 2. at the olant t.;hich is willing to put some ~oney into it anG. to operate it for the ;;axinun neriod Dossi:Jle. ~hat is nuDber one. :~UT:'.ber bro, every effc:::::-t s~-:ould be :-:\a(e,.

Sir, to .:.:,ret a fleet nr trar,.;lc:::r.s or drc..gQ"e~s, one or ~1o boats even woul~ be all that ~s rec:-'-lirec::. to feecl t~Ht nlant so t!:-:.a.t tl:e li-.:e of it can be extenc~ed. ~snother t!:int;, Sir, the T,.:tSd.e plant s~ould not have to close a otln just because t~ere is so::-"'.e ice out off the ~Tort:l.east coast. ~.-e :-~ave a LaScie ':1i<;:-::~:ay ~s -:Javec: ricrht to itsel:':. ::re coulc~ trans-rort ::is:~ in to t:1e cor.mun.i ty of LaScie E ror.:. an'! or:c; of a dozen ice free ports in that area. 7~ere is no reason why it cannot be done, ~nd it is econoDicallv feasible to C.o so.

I have asl:ed dozens of auestior.s about it ancl I ~rn told it can be clone so t~~at t~e li.Ee"' of. t}1a.t nlant - t:1at 9lant need not be a 2Iav to Se!!tew.ber or a i:~ay to October operation.

LaScie itself, Sir, ~s i.:1 desperate need of r:'.unicipal ;'laving. :~u.r:ici?al )·~tfairs~ ~-;ho is not in his seat no~·', \-Till knm1 LaScie resi<;!lec 1. last ·rear o~ler t>.e ~ac~ that t~ey could ~.•'i.r1 ....-, f"'Y ~-.. ;-.L•_· I tad a call ~ro~ the ~inister. rou~de! un ~o~r or five neorle ;·rho "dere ':Jillinq to serve . -'- . o~ an ~r:.L.er~"' council under a counle o~ conditions. t~ere be an election as soon as ~ossible to fill t~e . :, . ---

A;Jril 1977, Taoe 2.234, Page 2 seats prorerly. ,.., - . . . '-O:nC.l1:.l.On :~unici0al Affairs I'!OUlC. ~e vrilline']' to sit dorm :3.nc1 :2otl1 of those CQLCli tioi' .. S r . .rere 3..~reec.:. to ancJ 0!: tf:a t tasis I was able to chone the cinis~er ant say , Sere are five people who are willing to serve. So I a!:'l LaScie. t~:ose ~·r~o the un::;opular t2-J.i::g.

The council that resignee l1ad the support of the comrrmni ty, I can tell you that, but they did the unpo9ular thing, thev went against the co!Th-nunity,and holding the crovernr:'.ent to ti1ey agreed to sit on an ir..terin council. · I >·.'as ver:· ?leased to be able to call the minister and say I had it arranged,but it was Gone on those t wo con~iti.cns an~ the oinister is aware of them because we talkeC. about them on the nhone.

So I ho)'_)e that t:-:ose h.'o cor:.di tions - r:rell, number one has been rr,et, there :ws ~een an election. :Junber two condition is still out- standing and we will be waiting for the budget. ~Im·l, '1r.

Sneaker, last year i11 this House I oaae a strong nlea in the district sneech for further development of other econo2ic in the district other than ~inin0. ~verv tine I talk -::o neeDle in the sovern_I:!ent the first t~in.q cones un lS ~~e ~ining oner~tions on t~e ~aie Verte Pe~insula. ~esnit2 that, Sir, I have not seen ~uc~ ev~ ~ c~ce of c~an.ge nor I ~ave not seen any evidence o~ c~anne in direction or cnan~e ~n a~tit~~es to tje ~aie ~erte ~ll ~e~bers,I a~ sure~are ~~are t~at ~ar~lcr ·:ines close~ its a~er~tions

1J77. Ta~e 1 3 3 ~~ Pa0e 3 -- anh last Fall anC ~ad inten~e2 to stay closed for sene neriod c~ ti~e. will be t~e fat~ o~ Eaie Verte, be tl!.e fate o~ Or)£ratio~. 1 - -=- it lS a non-ren~ra~le resource. ~nd ~e ~ust look ~ls~:~ere there~ore fer t~e economic tase that will su~nort 12,000 or 14;000 ~eo~le on the 2aic Verte Peninsula. reality strikes us sauare in the f~ce. look at it now. ~e do not want a Eell Island on our hands in tHenty yea~s time,or a .oending Buchans. You have to be sensible enough and intelligent enough to look at those developing situations. ~7e ;,.ave to ::ace the realitv.

T~e district has other resources, Sir, that have been overshadowed. ln 2y opinion, and of ::1ining. on the ~aie Verte P~ninsula. It is underdevelo~ed an~ it is underutilized. Ee~ore the corning o:: the ~ines: -::.21e t·~.ro nininc;- onerations .. Sir, t:C.cre 1·:as as stronc: a fis:1.ery around Saie 'Ierte ?er,insula as vou •,:ould :ind ar:;r-1here i:1 t!1is ?rovi:1ce. fishin~ boats and they went to t~e ~ines for tte ~!er:'.anent ~ 1-. :o ._s to - .. - o a•~~ ~ -~-- '~ }

\nrH22, lr:-77, 'T'aDe 1835 T,P,-1 • '~. r>IDEOT"T: "' nurnrer of fisterT"en there,s>ooc1 fishenren, They may hc>.ve to return but the facility t·lill not be trere. 'rhe further ~evelopment anrl the further utilization of the fis~erv along the ~aie Verte Peninsula has been ~aMpered acttlally by lac~ of nrorer faciJ ities. T;,e fish nJant at LaScie,I have meniionec1 it, tr.e fish plant at LaScie anc" also the one at f.nqlee. It couJd be tre h.uh,Sir, of a thrivi~:? fishinS! industry. But in orr:ler to c'o that hoth those plants need support facilities in the other coMrr.tmi ties ar.ouncl.

You ~ave to r;).'Te a h.oJ.rling unJ't in ~hne rove .;mr1 vou 1-..:>ve to have a hc]r~n~ nn:it in "rlenr de I.ys and they h;ovP to he nroperly serviced. Jf we are going to , T have alwavs saic" this, if r-1e are :winP: to "'O an)T':"here in the r:'art·etin~ of fish in this province., if •.re are to become tbe fishinl? capital of the Nor:d then we have to sell a prnduct that can corr.pete with any other rrocuct on today's market.

Yon cannot clo trPt if ,,,e co not haYe the proner facilities in wh:ich to process and put up the .;: . ' .~.. l_S U. .. 'T.hat i.s ~.;here the f!overnrnent bas jn this pC"'int fa:i_] ed on the Baie ~!erte Peninsula, the fishery. They ra,re fAi]ed to ensure that the proper facilitie~ ar.e installed. I do not think they believe there is a fisher~an in Brents rove or there js a fis':e~an in r.7ilc1 rove or there is a fist...P.!I"an jn r.restport or there is a fisherman in "'leur c1e T.ys. 'T'he majority of the men ~nr~ in the mine.

WelJ, that is the one concept, Sir. that has to he clestroyecl. 'T'hey are there. ...hev :=tre th:•re jp tl-,e 1-unr'!recls .... ~ev are cr:rin<c out for those clesnerar.e1 v neec'ec1 ::'aci J. j ties. ~nt o>av. ~'e1_ l, th.:1t is tl-:e atti '·nce ~i:r,that r.•j _ _l] be 'JloF to th<? Baie T 1erte 1?eninsula one of t!1ose dctvs nnless ·Fe ~et a<·;ay fro!". th.:tt attituce that ynu h~·-e t~e job no'·' and yc-u can ta~e care nf yourselves. - . ~

,"-pril 22, 1077. Sir, the single ~reatest pro~lem facin~ the province~ ~f course, is Jac~ of job onportunities, lac~ nF e~plov~ent. ~hat ou~ht to he t'le r:att.n concerr:'l. of r!-.e ':'C'Vern~ent anc I <1.!!: .~ur.e i. t j s concrete evi~P.nce that it is. f.le !-.ave hac' tbe lip ·serrice 0f needed. 1 heJj_eve tl->e nay tn co it j s tn invest ~:n to the types of reveJoDtT~ent that I ar:1 taU·in.q- c>bout n~ir'.f'! ry oPn (listrict as an example. jnvestT"'ent on t!te 13P:i.e "erte PeninsuJa, investing into r>reater s1mportinr facilities for t'he Fisherv.

Tnvestin? into the forest incnstry, the r.reater utilization of the forest inclustcv on the Baie Verte Peninsula. ue are spending pu~lic ~cney but certainly it is onblic ~"'Or.ey that r,Jill create jobs anc! ~-?ilJ l1ave a lonp.: ter!" effect 0 More ('lP.C'>plR r,riJl be ahle to exp~_rlit t'!->e fjshery> more oeonle T·Ji]l be e1ble to exn,1oit the forest inrlustrv. So it Fi1J he or.ovi.dinr: jobs over a lonf't term basis.

That is the type of invest!"ent that I have alluded to j n T'!!V c1 ist ri c:t and I he] ieve j t v'ould r:n a J ol'1.g '•7 <?.y to so 1 vin?: per'TianentJy the une!"PlOyt;'ent rroclern th<1t Pe face in thjs prr.v:ince. No~ onlv in ry ~istrict,hec:ause mine is nrohabJy one of the r:1ost fortnnate~ but in rnanv other areas of the province as Fell. Ve hRve to bui1~ up supnort facjlities for a fT'eater an(l a more intensi fj erl fishery in the cl_j strict ;me it ~:.rould r:!rovi de thP. 4 nl-- onpor.tun iti es th;;tt I have tal ~-.ed abont.

So ~--onlt" t:,e fnrtl-:er ut~ J.j zad 01:1 nf the forP.sts. ~ir, T hear the aovermrent ta11- ~-"'"" tiTTles about the qreat forest rnana~erent rnlicv. ~'e1l, I c:an tell vou Sjr, ti'-at b" S<'~e (l f thof'e COT"'p8n ies. It l-as bPen raped. Just to cr:ive cor--n \I tr.e R;o.i e rre,..te l'e!'. -lnsuJ <>. and vou r,.r] 11 sav to vourse 1 f 1 ~·Jhere is the '·!here -ls jt? '~ere is t1--e -- .... .. · -,- . .: ... :. __ )

\or->.1 ~2, 1077 T R-3 . "re st)ll:.-lesoite t!-e c]al.t"S to the contrary ~y ti--e ~over.n~ent 1 they a re ~tj 11 ~ttinC! pri!l'e SaH J.oa l"''aterial for J:'Ulp CIOC t!.,C'.t still cont:ir 11.tinp to irnnort buiidinf- materials :rotr. ocher oar;s pulr the hei2hts of t•aste thett s('lonlr,l not be allo~-rec! to p.o on . :'he paper co:-oanie~,t=-.ey st)lt retain the r5R ht to :n r ~xr:r::nle are left ~- ·it~ tl-1e. scr<lns. ! 1rnC"w c'czens C"f !"itnacions in r.-y (listrict '·'hP.re that :.s true .

TheTe is trer.en0ous Haste ~oinp. on tl->e ~est ti:--ber i.s bein~ harvested ' I c:a)l that ra;>e of. the l.:tndscape C\ncl rape oc t!-le councrvsi<'e anc' th~t is r-:hat is 170in? on in dozens and cozens of cases . 'T"hese a r e p rob).eu>s then, chat '·'e facP. in che forest i ncustr:' in t!-.e dis trice. A~~ t~ey a r e cr~hle~s Sir, t~at if overcor:-e pov1 c! leacl to an expanced forest j_nclustrv and one t hat: r,·oulcl .,e of l'!'or e 1:-enefi t to mor e people in more part s of the ~ist r ict an~ in the pr0vjnce . ' , )

April 22, 1977. Tape 1836 RH - 1 ~1R. RIDEOUT: Now I have indicated that we have to face those realities-now. We cannot brush it off and say the Baie Verte Peninsula is all right because there are a couple of mines down there. We have got to face it now and not fifteen or twenty or twenty-five years down the road, when we got the Flell Island situation or the \Jha1esbaclc situation or the Gull Bridge situation sitting right on our doorstep. We need government attention right now.

We need government assistance, government planning, government input and it is needed now, not when the mine closes down and we all go in a mad frenzy to see what we can salvage out of it. It has got to be done now and that means planning and input and leadership by government. That is what it means, and also by the people and the local development association are very much involved in that. Sir, so far this government has not provided that type of leadership on the Baie Verte Peninsula because there is no problem there now.

So they are willing to forget it and to court disaster and tragedy a few more years down the road. I have talked about providing greater employment opportunities for the district and it certainly is needed. But I have also indicated that by and large we are probably one of the most fortunate areas of the Province \vhen it comes to employment. There is very little unemployment in (he area. Some communities have absolutely none whatsoever. Practically everyone is working. Let me take the example of Advocate Mines,for example. Last year, Hr.

Speaker, Advocate Mines employed 525 full time employees and seventy part time for a total of 590. They paid out $7 million in wages. And they paid in excess of $2 million in mining taxes to the Province. Now when you consider the personal income tax and the sales tax and so on paid off that $7 million \vages, the coFfe ~s of this Province in one industry alone - AN HON. MEMBER: \<'hat a 'bout "arn~J er? }-[R. RIDEOUT: I do not know what the figures are for Rambler. I have not been able to get them. But with one industry alone the ~o=fers .. ~--. · ~

April 22, 1977. Tape 1836 RH - 2 MR. RIDEOUT: of this Province, Sir, were very well fed by the people of the Baie Verte Peninsula. The taxes are rolling in from the area to both levels of government, federal and provincial. That brings me to the last point, Sir. The return on those taxes - and some members must now have this in their mind after what I have said in the first thirty-five or ~orty minutes of my speech when I talked about lack of water and sewer facilities and lack of roads and stuff like that - the return on those tax dollars, Sir, have been ver;,- very little.

During the twenty-three years of Liberal Government we had roads built and electricity installed and schools built and medical facilities expanded and so on. But the last five years we have been at a standstill. Nothing has happened. And I can come to one conclusion from that, Sir, is that the people have been penalized for voting for the .man or party of their choice. That is an unfortunate c.onclusion to come to. I mean 1 I am not the first opposition member for the district. The one before me was too.

And in five years, despite the tax dollars that I have talked about.,we have not seen any improvement in public services. There is no equality of distribution of government funds in this Province, Sir, or very little equality of distribution. The district with the strongest minister had needs and of course legitimate needs that have to be met. But in most cases they get the cream. You do not see that in the case of Humber-St. Georges-St. Barbe, for example, even though they have an opposition M.P. He is doing very, very well for his district and more power to him.

But that must be an indication of the difference in the political system in Newfoundland and the political system in Canada. It all depends upon the member. ~ffi.. RIDEOUT : I just said that. AJ."i HON . ~IEHB ER: Yes,sir 1 and begrudge it. - ~ .. ~.J ' • - _: ... ~ J

April 23, 1977. Tape 1836 RH - 3 MR . RIDEOUT : I do no t begrudge improved services to any district, Sir. They need it and they have a right to it. But it sickens me to know from the beginning, to kno~J from day one that I stand here in this House and I can beat my gums and do all I like, bu t because I am on this side o£ the House I will get very, very little considera ­ tion. That sickens me . Tha t is the type of political systec that turns my stomach. I can figh t for the district . I can be as good a member as the member for Bay of Islands or any other member on the other side of the House.

I can go co ministers' offices day after day. I can write letter after letter. I can be on t he radio . I can be on television. I can be fighting like the devil for the district. But Tom Rideou t is in opposition and that is the crime, Sir . That is why the district ~ill be penalized. TI~e people did not

~l.nril 2~, .T'f - l vote ~=nr '::l<e o;overn,.,.e:1t so thev 2.-re to he '"lunish.ec'l .. Desnite the fact c.r.d I h.ave laid it out in facts and fi?,ures, cesnite the fact that ~y district is one of the ~ost nrosnerous c.reas of t~:e Province~next to Labrador ''est I sunuose t::e ::ost !lrosnerous ir: ::er.:~s of nininz c.nd hi .~~l rva~es and so on - .::.CSf'l.te t:1.at fact, cespite t'1e fact th.::=tt there 2.re t~70 :.'.Undre.:_ DeonJ.e cJ. rivin~ over t!,_e Seal Cove-\vild Cove Road every day to a per:n.C~_nent job i.Jtla?,ine the t.:J.:~es tZlQy are. :Ja.~rin'! in .

Cesnite the fact that thers are ::ore than a hun~red an~ fifty necnle ~rivin~ - T am tall·-~r.<_; a=.-out rn.e:1 DO''' ::ot school. l,es~s - despite the fact Fleur de Lys-Coachnan's Cove ~oacl every day to a ne~.anent iob, despite t'le fact that there are more th2.n one huncl.rec men driving the ::'.urlington-~fiddle Arm 1:1oad every day to a neru2.nent i oh, there :1as not been a cent of "1oney spent on tl1em in five years tor.v-arcs ungradin~ and oaving, not one. ~ould we not expect that if t~e economic imnlications of the area cv·ere considerecl that there \·JOuld at least he one or tHO of those maior roads done in five years?

Is that too ;::uc'l to exnect? You can comb t'1e !'rovince, Sir, you can se2.rch for an area that is more oroductive than the Eaie Verte Peninsula, search for it.

I have indicated next to Labrador '-.!est I tl1ink :;ou ':·7ill have trouble finding it. !·Tell nm,r, Sir, look at tlle othe!." side of the coin and we can see th~t we are not gettin~~desnite our !)roductivit·r, r,;e are not g;etting; our share of :Lr:tprove~ nu1)l ic services. ~Jot one inch of nrovir:ci:J.l navernent in five :rears, not one inch 1 despite the fact that all those men drive rver t~ose n-r,.,vincial r-!-'3.Ve'C!ent i:1. five ?ears. .j_.nd the Se;:.l Cove "'oac th1.t I just alluded to is now t~e worst in the Province hv t~e ~inister's 0\VU acmission five thousand nound load li2itation on it, a ~rader c•rit~1 :r.Jlcl..-. un to t:Ce doors <1.nd tuo hur,drer1. r.en irivi:::H! th&t roar. to

'1? --, 1977 j"\f - 2 1vor:-:. '~mv, Si!:', is that fctir? \'ith the taxes t~at are going in from t:Cat area shoulc there not :,e. sane consideration given to it? I knoH that e.ver77 nart of ::he Province \as their oroblems 1:,ut we shoulC.. sorn.ethin2:, Eeavens _,,-c.re should get sor1ethin~. ~·f.1ether I an in Onnosition or if I am the Prer:1.ie!:' I shoulr:l get somethin.cc, ~Tov7 other areas of the Province i ust have to SCiueak.and I do not begrude t'leir services to the"1 or i::1TJroved services. there is iust a saue~: anc the money rolls in tn Green lay.

A road ~uilt to Sri~hton t7c years a~o, a ~reat thing to be paved this year, two vears later,And the road to Seal Cove built in 196.0 and has not beer. touched. since. ~ro~.; is that equality of distri~ution of ~overnment funds? It is sickening, it is disgusting and in fact in my simnle n!.a.in brutal language it is criminal. The only cri~e that the neonle of Baie ~.rerte-\· 7 hite Bay COT'!.!!litted., Sir, is that they did not vote for the govermnent candidates. It is the only crime.

It flies in the face of every principle of democracy that I can think about. 'l'ou c:mnot h.1.vc a government ~ v ithout oonosition, ancl some neo~J e sa..v ·.;ou ca,.,.not :-,;:.:.ve c;ood o:;overn!C:.er.t r,:ithout c;ood strong onnosition. So,if that is a £act, if that is 2 basic nrincinal of det"!ocracy., tl:lat you cannot have good .~overnnent T·7ithout stror..g o-rposition., then tl:J.e peo~le of Baie ?erte-r·'hite ~ay hCJse done as much servi.ce to this Pcovince as did the neonle i:1. nlacentia or the neonle in ~as~auni, if that is a ~act, h 11t, Sir, it is not ~eing looked at that r,JaV.

In fact they ctav ha,re r!one a lcctter service 'because t:l.1.oy dir-t -rot vote for the ~overn~ent. years in a row 1 ~ esnite the ~roductivity ~ n~ :~e econo~ics o~ t~e ue ~o ~ot ex~ect it all at one tiroe. T cln not exnect

}'~ - 3 do ot e . pect ic, tiut I ~xpect a w = :.J... z:~ • - - ~ ;;.:-.c. so ::J.uc •. next yea-: 3.::c so :::uc~ t ::e yea_: fte:r ? :\ r~ -.,-e t i~ is a s~~ _itany of o!i~i a ri e::y , chac is . ..-ha... · t o o~-s dm-m to . that I 2m at a ~isadvanta~e from ::~.e ::l::.nute I st: n ~ u~ ::ere . r the .inute I 2:0 to a Minister , or the . i. ute _ go a=-t~rN"~e=e . ·-:- . : .. - -") .. - ~ - . ( ....,

April 22, 1977 Tape no. 1338 Page 1 - ms ;.rr . Rideau t. ::-::e buying of votes in some districts and penalizing thoss people in others because thev did not sunnort t~e zo vernnent is Hhat He are talking about~ The excuse for every request that I ~ake to government - I have had delegations . : J.n 1. ro;:u every community-and the excuse is no funds. And I supposr~ in many respects that is a legitimate excuse. But I can look around.

They tell me there are no funds, and I can look arour~ d and see tenders called for paving in Green Bay 1 or reconstructicn and paving in Exploits and in Bonavis ta :•Torth .J.nd other areas. And there are no funds. Sir, there is somethin2 drasticaL'v vrrong r.vith that system of goverrun.ent if the basic democratic principle is that in order to have good government you h,_ve to have good Opposition. That means you have to have opposition members elected, and they have legitL~ate needs to and shoulc be lookec at. It is shameful. It is disgraceful.

And, Sir, I can tell you it will not be forgotten by those who are at the receiving end of such political abuse, . because you are not going to turn them around, Sir, by not givinq; them no thing. ~,1R. :"':ORGMJ: Talk to your buddies in Ottawa! YlR. RIDEOUT: Now here it goes again. Here it ;oes again, the same old story of Ottawa. Otta-v;a paid nin•~ty per cent of the LaScie road, paved ninety per cent of the Baie Verte road. Talk to my buddies in St. John's and get some provinci~l money~should be the answer. ;.[R. L!ORGAN: All Liberal districts are getting their ~onev from Ottatva . 2·l.R.

RIDEOUT: Al l Liberal districts are gettinz, t:1eir money from Ottawa. ':lhat about Jack :f2.rshall's district? Go out on the ~·lest Coast and c~eck Jack :'!arshal's district,I say to the hon. o.inister. 'E1e ':.on. rc1inister nm.; just popped in right at the right time if he c.;ants a fe~.; flicks. It is political abuse, and you vTill not change t:l~

April 22, 1977 Tape no. 1838 Page 2 - ~u.s :1r . Rideau t. people's attitude that 'lvay, Sir. You 'IWuld have a better chance of changing it if vou did some \vork. Sir, I ~1ave made those comments, because I believe them to be in fact true. I knmv they are true in my district .. I have seen it. And the sad

part is, Sir, the sad

part is is that those facts - and the situation as is happening in ny C.istrict. I kno<:-7 I can stand ' up here day after day and say I • what is happening in truth and in fact, and it is going to bll on deaf ears. It r,Jill be shoved oif by the other side anc.! saying, T~ere is another Opposition member over there no~, political belly- aching. H.e is negative again. He is calling do~m the government again. T-Je.ll give me something to be positive about, and I vTill not '-~e at it.

And that is to be looked at in the same light_, Sir, as one minister on the other side said to one member on this side in this session, You have done very good for an Opposition district, you got $1 million. ~~m.;, Sir, that puts i't in a nutshell. TI!at puts it a lot better than I can put it , I suppose, coming right from the horse's mouth. It is a sad confirmation, Sir, of the poir.ts that I have been raising, because it came from the mirister's mouth. Sir, I have never seen the likes of it federally. I have used Jack ~arshall's district as an example. AN .

HON. ~ · 1Er1BER: That is a lot more than ny district got. ~·rR. RIDEOUT: I have used Jack Harshc:.ll' s district as an example, and you cannot see it there. You cannot see t:1e rolitical cl:iscrinination in the federal sys tern. that you are seeing in this particular little system. You cannot find it. The y ~ot the r.!oney f o r LIP b ecause they hai a greater unenployment ::':an other a.reas of c!',e !rovi::J.ce. should have gone there. \,:hat do ue finJ? Englee, 'lvith a ~1igil degree of unemploym.ent in the \..Jintertime, and you get a ski-doo trail cut in Grand Falls.

T~at is the priority system. ~rm,7 tf:a t i.s a confirmation of ~·That I ;un talking about. It is a condemnation of -..

April 22 , 1977 Tape no. 1G38 Page 3 - ms :·~r . 3.iC.eou t . ?riorities. It is a condemnation of the ?Olitical mentality of this Province to the group of people who are entrusted ~·li th governnen t, good government . SO~·!E RON. '1E~'ffiERS: • f ~ ' near, near. NR. SPEAKER (Dr . Collins): The hon . meml:.er for Placentia . SO~!E HON. ~121BERS: Hear, hear! ~8 . PATTERSON: ~1r. Speaker, I should like to congr-a r.ulat ·~ t!1e !;;ember for Baie Verte - (-lhi te Bay Cfr. 'licieo1.1t), :10t so ~uch for ~hat h e said, but ~ow ~e said i t.

Ee is a ve r y firey little man . · And I may say i~ 5Y t3irt y-fiv e years in ?Olitics I have seen many ma~bers come and go and I think h e is going to be around for awhile. I can support the problem he is having up there t-lith t.;ater and sewerage. ~ole are having the sallle prohle!!l, and I thi~~ the consultants should be looked at. He also ~as problems with pollution there, and I am no stranger to that because of ,.;hat happened in Placentia Bay a few yea rs ago . Before I get on to my re!llarks I should like t~ congratul ate t:he member for Naskaupi (Hr. Goudie) for his very inspirin£ speech last ni;h t .

SOHE HON. :·!E~· !BERS : Uear, hea r!

_~_pril 22, 1977 Tape no. 1839 Page 1 - ms ~'IR. PATTERSON: I think since he came to this House he has done more than all the publicity agents put together to make that portion of ~~e~.;foundland know":"':. better to l:eHfoundlanders. S·'J:'E RON. :· !E~rBERS: Rear, hear! HR. ?ATTERSON: I should also like to congratulate the ~tember for Exploits (Dr. T~vomey). The only thing I regret about his speech is that he should have made the speech about two months ago before the forty-five minute 1~-:J.it ~,-as put on speec:1es. :-8. · NEARY : \·Jhat about the me..rnber for !3ay of Islands Cfr. Hoodrow)? ~fR.

PATTERSON: \.Jell,,·:e will get down to him later. 1-le have 3oodies in store for him. He is usually flicking one over to you, so I think I should flick one to him. In opening, :~. Speaker, I would like to say a word of welcome to the new members elected in the by-elections. ·,~e are happy to have on this side of the House Dr. T~1omey for Exploit.s and George Cross, the member for Bonavista :--Torth. I would also li~:e to acknowledge Martin 0 'Brien's presence, short as it was.

I night-say that the O'Brien family of the Southern Shore have pioneered the frozen fish industry in Newfoundland and have operated plants in my district. I represent a district, ~~. Speaker, that is tleep ln history,dating back to the early days of the French. It was settled there in 1662. The Treatry of Utrecht in 1713 put an end to the French occupation of Placentia and by terms of that treaty Frar..ce evacuated ~~e,.;rfoundland and \vas given pemiss ion to fish on the ~orthern coast.

As a result the French Nationalists expelled from Placentia and other South Coast points migrated to Cale Breton Island where they founded the great historic fortress of Louisburg. During the past ten years great progress ~as been :uade in rcbui.lding and restoring :1istoric sites as cvell as preserving

"~pril 22, 1977 Tape no. 1839 Page 2 - ms ~-. PATTERSON: valuable artifacts in the Placentia district. Last S~mer '3. r laque T;JaS unveiled at Ship Harbour l Placentia Bay to cowmemorate the spot '"here Sir ~Hnston Churchill and Pre:;ident Roosevelt drafted t!-le Atlantic Charter. It was at this rlace that the strate~y to end \.Jorld Har II was planned. We will be able to have the road paved to this historic site, this Summer hopefully. T.1at, of course, is a matter for the ?ederal Departnent of Historic Site~ and ~-1onuments. But nevertheless eve have made representation to them in thzt regard.

Th.is \vill certainly make Placentia one of the best historic sites in Newfoundland~to be visited and enjoyed by thousands of vacationers '>vho have already toured our ~arvellous reconstruction of the French fort at Castle Hill. t~. Speaker, the economic history of Placentia district has been one of ups and downs.Cn its founding in 1662 up until 1940 the economy ~vas based solely on the fis~ery. And c·Tith the coming of the Americans to Argentia came thousands of jobs and so the fishery ._;as abandoned in most communities. The .Americans \vere chief :mployers from 1941 until 1970 r.vhen the base phased down.

It is interesting to note_ that there are still 1,100 American personnel at the United States Naval Station, and I wish them many mor~ years in our company. As I have stated on several occasions, t:1e Anericans have been good friends, good neighbours and good employers. Presently, ~· fr. Speaker, only one half of the 7,600 acres is occupied because of a centralization programme of activities on t:1e Southside of the base. Nr. Speaker, one may ask, \.J:.,at is <n::.ilable at Argentia and 1·7hy I feel it is so important to have ti1e surplus lands and buildings returned to the Crm.-n?

Argentia 'lnrbour is situated on t~1e South~vestern side of the Avalon Peninsula, anl it r.ras selected as a naval operating base because it is the best ice-free rort Korth of ~ew York. Strong westerly winds bring warm air ··- - -f .... ...... . ' / - · · · '-!' _;:

Xpril 22, 1977 Tape no . 1339 Page 3 - ms Y_r. Pacterso n. fror:1 t:1e Gulf StreaJ!l areas towa r d ~ewfound.land, resul~ing in co::tparatively raild but variable ~1 e at~er . And t~e temperatures m~ver Eall no!!e chan four degrees belot-; zero . ~he base i c s~lf is situated on a ~~le and one- half of roc!~ flat land elmo;;: comple cely surrounded by Hater . The harbou r from ~·Thich pr oj ec ting r oc ks have be en blasted c an shelte r seve r al task forces at one tir.le . }~ .

Speake r , this perpetually ice - free harbour with its 5200 !!li.llion ~.rorch o£ air fiels, hangars, repair shops, fuel tanks, and supply depo t s now stand virtually abandoned. ~·tr. Speake r , the runways are in excess of 6,000 feet and could be ext:ended ::>:.1t i-:1to the !>ay if necessary . They are built of cement on solid ro ck a£ ter ~·lenty feet of muskeg had been remov~~, and navy and army officers have desc ~ i~ed ch~ as being indestruc t able . T.~ese runways cost in excess of 59,425,000 co constru c t. ou t if built today

April 22, 1977. Tape 1840 RH - l HR. PATTERSON: God only knows how much they would cost. i-1r. Speaker, Newfoundland is in need of another airport on the Peninsula of Avalon and Argentia should be looked at. SOME HON. MEHBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PATTERSON: What has happened out there is absolutely criminal and I am not all that happy with the Provincial Government of Newfound- land. I am not going to lay the blame on the Federal Government. In 1974 the Americans abandoned Argentia. They walked out the gate and left it. And in moved vandals and destroyed much of the property. ~IR.

NEARY: You mean they vandalized · the North side. MR. PATTERSON: That is right. And this certainly can be supported by the han. member from LaPoile(Mr. Neary) who has been out there on several occasions. MR. NEARY: I had good reason to go down there. HR. PATTERSON: Well I am not going to question his reason for going down there. He came down there and took one of our girls. So I guess he found geed pickings down there. I notice, Mr. Speaker, that the federal fishery service has planned to spend $2.5 million to $3 million in Bay Julls to construct the first phase of a major docking facility.

Now I am not out to take anything from Bay Bulls. But I think if they are going to get involved in spending $4 million or $5 million or $7 million in a marine centre they should take a look at Argentia. All the facilities are available there, the docks, fuel tanks, machine shops and the radar and all that goes with it. So that should be looked at. With regard to Argentia being an ice free port I would like to quote to you from a royal commission on transportation that was set up by the-Liberal Government in 1966 dealing with the proposed abandonment of the Argentia branch line.

At that time the Canadian National had applied to the Board of Transport Commissioners in Ottawa to abandon the Argentia port. So Hr. Lewis, he was the man who made the study and I quote to you. He says, "Again there is the important factor of ice

April 22, 1977. Tape 1840 RH - 2 HR. PATTERSON: conditions making the East Coast of Newfoundland including St. John's unapproachable during the months of March and April if easterly winds prevail Argentia has always been available for approach and departure, when ice conditions made navigation to other areas of Newfoundland an impossibility.

Now this I have brought to the attention of the Minister of Transport in Ottawa pointing out to him that if they are going to set up this marine centre on the Southern Shore of Newfoundland and you get eastarly winds,which you will, that place can block with ice and then what happens; The Russians- can come in and the Poles and the Lithuanians and the whole works can come in and have a heydey out there. Argentia to Halifax is an all water route open all year round. and it might be wise for those responsible for making a policy to keep this important factor in mind.

This commission has no comment to make regarding the abandonment of this branch line rather than to raise the question of feasibility of burning your bridges before you are absolutely certain of an alternate way across the river. This commission records here for all those who have authority to change the transportation facilities in and out of the port of Argentia that a very serious study should be undertaken before any rash decisions are made. '' Now I would like to congratulate the Minister of Transportation. And I know he is in a very ticklish position there with the vocal member from LaPoile(Mr.

Neary) fight~ng for his district,and rightly so. I would be doing the same thing. But I think the minister is right in supporting the tractor-trailer service into Argentia, at least for the time being until that road is upgraded. There again I am not trying to say anything malicious against the han. member's district. Mr. Speaker, I feel that the federal fisheries operation shoulL be 1ocated at Argentia and all facilities are available. Recently the Hinistry of Transport opened the most modern radar tracking station in the ~.;orld at Argentia to guide tankers d.n and out of that great bay.

Nm11 with the Come By Chance out of the picture this facility which ...... -. :: .}

April 22, 1977. Tape 1840 RH - 3 MR. P ATTERSO.N: must have cost many millions Jf dollars will be eventually dismantled I artd several men will be out o1 work. Mr. Speaker, air, sea and rescue operations should be considereq for stationing at Argentia. Hr. Speaker, just about all the facilities lwhich I have described have been vandalized since the Americans abandoned them in 1974.

l\.nril ,.., .:..-, 1241 .. Pa\"7e 1 : :r: . ~ovever, I am cnti~istic that - - ---~-- - a transfer o~ t~e pronerties involved to the Province will have nositive results in t~e not too eistant future. I thi::1}: an arrangern.en t is !::einq • . .rorked ct~t lease from the federal governwent. Hr. Sf!eaker, I an not for .:.:: lcr inllustrv develonec~ a.t an::/ cost as J:-een t:1.e na ttern of the rast.

I supnort t~e ?Olicy of this crovernnent in its effort to clevelo:; a:-td !:',anaae t~~e f i s~1er~ ' ';ot .::. ins~ore and offshore. largest 3av in Newfoundland, and certainly the richest in relation to the fishery; I have been particularly concerned about the reooE:ning of the Come by Chance refinery and the nroble~s which ~ill result with recard to tanker rn.ovement Hi thin :? lac entia Gav. The orerations of t~0 tankers in Placentia Bay, ~r.

SDeaker, was absolutely cri~inal. ':'ar:kers ~·Jere r.1.oving in and out of that 3a? \-ii thout pilots ~hich is a direct cortravention of the Atlantic Pilotage Authoritv Reaulations of the Canada Shin~ing ... -' . .. ' . Act. During the months of July, August and Se?tenber of 1976: all the ca:otain of a tanker enterinc:r or leaving Placentia Eav had to do was to ackncwledqe the ~arine Centre ~t Argentia.

I cruote from the Atlantic ?ilota ry e Authority nolicy on the ncvenent of tankers wit~out oilots: ·.:1s no licenced 2ilot is available to ner:':orn ~ilotage duties your vessel mav within safetv or s~ould that condition h.ereby '.Hives cor:-mulsor~' ?ilotatJe for t~c s~i~ in accor~ance ~it~

section 5 of the Atla~tic ~ ilo ~a<3e . .-\uthori ty 2_e,.t.::.la.tions. gra~ted on the con~ition- and t~is is the serious ~art-

A~ril 22, 1977 : Tane 1211, Pacre 2 ' 2.DD : :P... P .?.TTE:RSO~~: for any ~ollution, damage to 'lessel or other vessels, cargoes, u~arves, shore installation or aids to n~viqation. Please acknowledne your accentance of t~is '·Tai ver and these conditions. Sore fiftv-three tankers agreed to this waiver and proceeded without nilotane. - - I brought this ~atter to the attention of the '!inister of ~rans0ortation anc also there was no danger to ship~ing. I sav to 'ir. Georc:e and the federal coast ~uard that t~is is T ryrotested to ~r. George the disnantlinq of the satellite radar station at Cuslett.

Placentia Day because of the rea.J... _:?ossil-,ili ty o:: colli.sio!1 bet•.-1een a ;::1os::--:-:orus T~e situa tior: ~ . rerr arC.i.l:lCi - - navigation ~-ri thin the Bav is explosive anC. '1r. Georc:;e is a>'lc_r.e of this.

In snite of n.•r "rob:;st.s t>.e rad:::tr station at Cuslett was re~oved and assembled at Port aux Basques. of nollution in Placentia S&y and I can assure you, I ~ill not sit back while the stage lS set =or anot~er ~isaste~. ~ is> .. erv i:: P lacen ti2 .. =.av if a rr.aj or oil s~ill or a ~~os~horus snill were to occur. !:: :a -:.2s·:: an(~ nos si;.~ l-:' tl-:e :a::::-cres t I:elr:c; ~ ~ .. _, ...... "' .. · ,_:.;

::ar!cred and forty :-:1iles lon<:; O.ri:teG. :or the ric :--. :is !linc::r s roun ds o: t~e Geo::-qes ea~~s, a real t:-:reat o: only a tub, a ::.m.: boa t ir. cor:~::Jariso:-: t.; it:l t=:e l,4S~ foot, 3 00, 000 ton ta:1kers that a.re ::->l:rinc_: in ?lacentia ~ay,or at least ~ere, - ~ .·· ,. .. ~

1::77 Tan e 134 ~ J' ·~ - l possibility of a gale. 1~, 1'\')'J tons of oil could ,c;ive you an oil sl i_c1: :or tv-one :"tiles ~?ide anc1 161 miles lon~ Fhat vJOuld hap\)en if a suner tan l:er ,,,ere to breal: un in tt,_c? .. t 02:": ' ~ aril"'_ e fisheries f-.iolc~ist.s :"l?.:ve stated that even if t~e hughe oil snill were to drift out to sea as did eventually hanoen the after effects in the i~mediate area could still be immense and long lasting.

The frightening realization is then a sir,nificant nart of the annual f,. gs , nnn ton catc h of flounder, cod, scallons, lobster and other food fish could he lost ir: five years time anc1. ,.,,uch of the Geor<2:es Ban~:s sne.rmir:"! grounds could lJe te!'l.porarily destroyed ; not to ctention the devestation of bird life. '·1r. Speaker, it is becoming increasingl y evident that tb.e risl~ of accidents posed by :~uge tan:-:ers is very real.

In considering the magniturl.e and serious consequences such an accident ,.rould have on our environment, it is a matter of immediate concern for T!le esneciallyJ ,.,;hen one considers t'he cri!'linal activities >vhich have been nractised in Placentia Zay hy the coast guard causing numerous problems related to tanker movcment. I auote to von here a clirmin~ from t!--,e Dc>.ily :reus dealing with the Argo :'-fer chant clicts ter.

" The total cost of the Prr:o,.,7 cleanun was ~3. 8 million paicl. by the Canadian Government be c;mse orNtlership of the ship \vas never nroven. nil corrrranies and shin mmers nmv carry un to .t::JO million insurance coverage a.~ainst an oil snill bv one of t!:l<=>.ir sunertankers ~ut tf:at su!'l r.rould not ~o far in clec.ning up eighty "1iLlion 2:allc~s of oil. r;r:1e:n attac!dng a ::1ai or oil snill ' the tas!..: force renor.t said 1 ~alvage of the vessel Must he secor~ary to nreventi~ g t~e snread of oil.

If this o hilosouh y ~ a~ ~een followed an ~ th.ere ~ad been legislation permitting federal authority to take char~e iTTIT'lediately t~e huE( of the Arrov' s car;:?;o coulcl ~robarly have

April :?.:?. , 11177 '!P_, "?A'I'~ERS0~,~: been recovered >·:hile she '>'2.~ still- afloat." The report continued, "r7e are anrallec at the slo1Joiness ~hat ue find in the operation of t~e ,.:orld 1 s tanker fleet particularlv those w~ich sailerl under flags of convenience.

This is exe1r1L~lified 'r_-,y the .A..rro1:v which ~-:ras onerating ~vith almost none of its navigational eq:uipment servicea~le, ':vi.th no navigation skills resident in a~y of the crew with t~e excention of the cant2in c.nd there are even doubts about his abilitv." So t~ 1 ose res1'onsi.ble for nro!"lotin~ and reopenin::; t~at refi.nerY the'r have a verv r;r.ave responsibi1 itv and I thin]r everv e>nf.'le should be lool_:ed at l;ecause I cio not see any reason '>·lh~r ue should trade off one industry for another.

If the an~allin~ safety reco~~s Cf the four thiJUSanri_ OCd t.?.TI'kerS Sailing the T1JOt'ld IS OCean iS to he drastically changed anr:i the rights of those ~.rho stand to suffer from unnecessarv nc.rine acci~ents are to be nrotected an entirely new anoroach to international marine law is needed. than tHo '.1undred su11ertankers of ~on,0n0 tons or :!lore afloat anri a vessel of one million tons is on the drar..ring boards.

And fol.lm·Jing the i'f.iddle East :-7ar i_n 1973 there vas a sudden surnlus of ~iant tankers. !oo manv h2e been built ar.d there ~ ,;as a reducec cl_emanc'_ for oil 1;ecause of t::e economic recession. ~oel Mostert ~ est sell~r Supership says: ' The ,..,rosnect of future _zenerations of supertankers or. stronger -i es ign is <;one. The shios r..re ~ave are. tt.,.e ones ~,1e ;;ill 12;0 on :Flvim; r,rith t:t1eir shortcomin~s l:luilt for a relatively short time ooeratinr; life they cJill be run for as l on!:_'; as nossi b l2 int o the : u tur!3.

Ther.e sunertankers ''he says, '' nr? a cci C' ei".ts lool'in: : or -:io not \-.'ant one un in ::>lacentia 3ay. ::To t only ~.;ou.ld i_t riestro y Placentia ~ay but all the b2.ys aloe~ the Sout~·est Coast of

' . 1 ") ") ---tl t"l.- 1.:. , '01.') _.,-~ J': - 3 - ... .-,.. 0 0 1 J: .errence ~ayes , an o=:1c1a_ a~ Iransuort and ~he oil conti~~ency offic e in ~artrnouth , Ynva Scotia <>aid_ :~ro -one contains a spi:U of a comolete car~o of one of 6osP. supertankers . And consiceri~g ~~e ,ag~ituce anc t~e se~~ cu~~ess and ~~e ccnse~uer.ces sue~ an ace ide::: :: coulc :1ave on our r...a r:!.ne environr.lent i t is a !:!atter of i:nmediate cor.cern for r:1e. esoeciallv u:1en one considers the cri~-. ina l oilota!;e activities ':>eing rractisec in ?lacer.c:..a 3~y. anr I say c:~ey are cri:ni~al a~!!

I c:1aller:!te :::~e coas;: !!ua rd to cone out :-t~~ tell ne c~ey are no •: . r.'irtually t~e entire cces :::1:!.:-te of P:ace:-t~if: 3ay -1 , ..,,, I' - · 0 .... .:

April 22, 19 77 Tape 1843 PK - 1 Mr. Patterson: is utilized by fishermen who earn their livelihood from the sea~ ahd it is one of the most productive fishing areas in the Province for the inshore fishe~en. There are also fleets of deep-sea trawlers based at ports in Placentia Bay, which travel to the Grand Banks and other deep sea grounds to fish virtually all yecr-rounc.

Fear has been expressed in the study by the Placentia Bay Tanker Loop Committee on the direct impact of the proposed tanker route on fishing operations in Placentia Bay , t~at these fishing vessels) of ten 'vi thout adequate navi~?a tio!'.<>.l equi:-'nent nresent .:J. real hazard to safe navigational in the Bay, esnecially in foggy conditions. And there is no doubt th~t there are risks for those fishermen who must constantly cross commerical steamer channels.

Given the lack of maneuverability of these supertankers within relatively narror na1 rigational lanes, and given the scope of fishing activitivities within Placentia Bay, the Committee has commented that the most serious risk of oil spills related to the conditions of fishing vessels is probably related to the possibilities of stranding or of collisions with other tankers resulting from changes of course to avoid fishing boats in the tanker track