LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Monday, March 13, 1972 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 pm.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair.] head: NOTICES OF MOTION MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I would like to give notice to a motion of this Assembly by myself and seconded by the hon. member Mr. Diachuck for Tuesday next, tomorrow, to the following affect:

Be it resolved that this Assembly direct the Government, on behalf of the people of the Province of Alberta, to extend an invitation to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, His Royal Highness Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, and members of the Royal Family to visit the Province of Alberta in 1974 to join with us in the celebration of the One Hundredth Anniversary of the arrival of the North Nest Mounted Police in Alberta; or, alternatively, to visit the Province of Alberta during 1973 for the celebration of the One Hundredth Anniversary of the proclamation of the North West Mounted Police. I would ask at that time, Mr.

Speaker, tomorrow on Tuesday, on Motions other than Government Motions if we could have the leave of the House to deal with that ahead of the other motions on the Order Paper. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. PURDY: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce to you and through you to the hon. Members of this Assembly the students of Avonmore Grade VI. They are accompanied by their teachers Mrs. Woodrow and Mrs. Macintosh. May I thank the teachers for creating the interest in our democratic process in their students and thank the students for coming here.

May they now please rise to be recognized. head: FILING RETURNS AND TABLING REPORTS MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I take pleasure in filing the Second Annual Report of the Alberta Colleges Commission of 1970-71. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 325

8-2 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to file the Annual Report of the Department of Highways and Transport. I would also like to file the other documents in regard to surveys and the Highway Transport Department commercial vehicle report. MR. DICKIE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the return required by the Assembly under authority of

Section 24 of The Gas Resources Preservation Act. MR. WERRY: Mr. Speaker, I should like to table at this time the information requested in Motion for Return 105. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Men's Hostel Meals MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development. Is the minister aware of the absolutely inadequate, and I'd say outrageous, quality of meals being served at the provincial single men's hostel in Edmonton? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, that question involves a presumption.

If the hon. member is, in fact, asking if the meals are outrageous, as he says, I don't mind checking into it, and finding out if anything is lacking in that regard, and will do so. MR. NOTLEY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I might just say by word of explanation that I've received a number of letters on this matter and several deputations. Will the minister assure the House that after checking into it that he will make this a priority item and report back to the Assembly? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I don't mind assuring the hon. gentleman that both the quality of the food and the report to the House will be accorded their appropriate place in priorities. Grain Commissioner MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the hon. Deputy Premier, and Minister of Agriculture? Is the government giving consideration to the appointment of a grain commissioner? DR. HORNER: We're giving consideration to all matters that are related to grain in Alberta, and when that policy is finalized, it will be announced in the House. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 326

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-3 Air Ambulance Service DR. BOUVIER: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question, I'm not sure to which minister this would apply, but I'll direct it to the hon. Premier and he can pass it on. Has the government any plans to discontinue the emergency air ambulance now operating in Alberta? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the answer is no. DR. BOUVIER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. If you're not discontinuing the emergency air ambulance, are you changing the manner in which it is being operated at present -- I mean by having private enterprise charter companies do the transporting? MR.

CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, some consideration is being given to changing the manner in which the ambulance service is being operated. DR. BOUVIER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Does this involve the use of a King Air from Edmonton to pick up patients, say, in Janvier reserve and fly them to McMurray and fly them to Edmonton empty? MR. CRAWFORD: The hon. member's question is a matter of detail and I don't think I could be expected to answer it here, Mr. Speaker. MR. DIXON: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport and Highways.

The federal government has recently introduced Bill C2 in Parliament, which, if passed, would repeal

Section 238 of the Criminal Code and will provide that a judge may prohibit a person from driving a motor vehicle in Canada at times, or at such times and places as may be specified in the order. Now, my question to the minister is whether the government will be introducing at this session of the Legislature any amendments to

Section 206 of The Highway Traffic Act to modify the terms of the present mandatory suspension of an operator's licence, following criminal code convictions for impaired driving, or driving with more than .08 per cent alcohol in his blood? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, in regard to that question, we'll give this consideration. Certainly some of the findings that have been brought down recently in the new federal legislation should be of dovetailing our legislation to the federal legislation. Grain Commissioner (cont.) MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

If a grain commissioner is appointed, will it be done through a competition? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 327

8-4 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 DR. HORNER: Mr. Speaker, if and when that is done, we'll announce it in the House. I might say that in relation to competitions (or otherwise), what we in the Department of Agriculture are concerned about is getting the right kind of people to do these marketing jobs, so we can improve the marketing opportunities for our farmers. Rapeseed Plant MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. It concerns the proposed rapeseed crushing plant at High Prairie.

Is the hon. minister aware of the research prepared both by the National Farmers Union and Unifarm in the Peace country which shows that a central location for the plant would save Peace River rapeseed growers up to $1 million annually in trucking costs. DR. HORNER: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that the NFU and Unifarm have both put before me a substantial amount of information. I might also say that the members of the Legislative Assembly from that area have also placed before me a number of matters that relate to the question of the rapeseed crushing plant.

However, as I said in the House previously, I don't think our department has to make a judgment on the matter of the site with regard to the incentive grants of DREE, also having regard to the company that is putting up the plant. And while we might like to direct them into certain areas, certainly we would not want to stop the development of rapeseed crushing plant in the Peace River country because of this. And so I might say, Mr.

Speaker, that I think the hon. member has some merit in pushing the site of the crusher in the Peace River country; I think that this has to be settled by sitting down with the various communities and the various farm organizations, and trying to get the best site that would suit everybody in that area. MR. NOTLEY: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the hon. minister's answer and in view of the Canada-Alberta Second Special Areas Agreement, under the terms of which I understand that major projects are to be funded by the federal government, smaller projects by the provincial government, or at least to be given consideration by the provincial government -- in view of this and in view of the concern expressed by the farm organizations, will the minister give the House an undertaking that he will commission a meeting of the promoter of the project and the farm organizations concerned to consider site and to perhaps consider in addition, possible matching grants from the province as per the Canada-Alberta Special Areas Agreement?

DR. HORNER: Well Mr. Speaker, I think that I can give the hon. member the commitment with regard to the meeting. I would say, however, as he is aware, the hon. Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs and the hon. Minister of Industry are in Ottawa today discussing with Mr. Marchand in DREE a number of these questions. And therefore, I'd like respectfully to suggest that the outcome of those discussions will have a bearing on the latter part of his question. I'll certainly bring it up with the hon. ministers of Industry and the hon.

Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs return from Ottawa and their discussions on this area that we're talking about right now. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary North Hill. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 328

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-5 Nursing Home Contracts MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development. Are there any outstanding applications for nursing home contracts in north Calgary, and what in particular is the status of an alleged application from the Seventh Day Adventist Church? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the applications are made in the first instance, of course, at the local level through the Calgary Auxiliary Hospital and Nursing Home District Board.

In respect to specific delays I would be glad to make an inquiry and see if there have been applications made that have not been responded to, and discuss it with the necessary local board. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, to the hon. minister regarding these recommendations based on the decision of the local board, is it not true that these recommendations and all applications are forwarded to the department for final approval? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the Alberta Hospital Services Commission has been gathering applications from points throughout the province. MR. HENDERSON: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if the hon. minister could possibly, in keeping with this question of nursing homes and the discussion that has just taken place, advise the House as to whether the government, as a matter of policy, are not going to allow any further expansion of the private nursing homes in the province. Are applications officially being restricted to non-profit or public authority? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, that is an overall matter of policy, but my understanding of the applications that are being received by each of the boards from time to time is that they are still receiving both kinds. MR. HO LEM: Mr.

Speaker, this particular application that has been referred to by the hon. member from the opposite side, was it not submitted to the Hospitals Service Commission for consideration? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member may be giving rather than seeking information and I believe the House, if it can be aware of matters which are in the public domain, may be aware that the hon. member is related in some way to the board in question and all I can undertake is to enquire specifically into it. Family Allowances and Victoria Charter MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon.

Premier and ask him, in light of the announcement from Ottawa, and I Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 329

8-6 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 gather simultaneously from Quebec City, concerning the matter of family allowances, is it the intention of the Province of Alberta to rethink its position with regard to the administration of family allowances, and at the same time would the Premier comment on the Alberta situation concerning the constitutional charter? MR. LOUGHEED: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I had intended on Orders of the Day to deal with that matter, but I will deal with it at this time.

I received this morning, a letter from the Prime Minister dated March 9th, 1972 which dealt with the matter of family allowances and manpower centres and I will be happy to table that correspondence for the benefit of members' perusal. In addition to that, I will be tabling correspondence between the Premier of Saskatchewan and the Prime Minister, arising out of the Prairie Economic Council Meeting of January, 1972, together with the response to the three Premiers of the Provinces of Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta by the Prime Minister which reply correspondence was dated March 1st, 1971.

The matter that is raised in this letter, of course, has very large and important implications, and it would not be my intention to respond specifically at this time nor would the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development. There is a great deal of study and assessment that has to be made with regard to this letter, because the letter appears to involve some new directions in relationship to the views of the federal government in response to provincial jurisdiction.

It certainly is going to require some elaboration by ourselves with regard to the definition of the word 'family allowances' as contained in the letter and what is intended there and how it relates to provincial programs as they exist now or as they may be contemplated. So there will be, and we have already started in process, a very extensive survey of the implications of this letter and this direction upon the provincial government, and I am not prepared to say more about that at this time.

However, the letter that I received from the Prime Minister this morning does refer, too, to another matter, and that is, if I may quote from the letter, on the question of manpower centres and occupational training allowances. Mr. Speaker, I am referring to the Prime Minister's letter dated March 9th, 1972. "We are still in the process of examining the ideas brought forward by provincial governments during discussions on various aspects of this question which have been going on during the past year or two.

We are also considering the recent representations we received from the Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta governments. We are hopeful that as a result of these studies, and of further discussions with the provinces, it may be possible to arrive at conclusions satisfactory to all concerned." We intend to follow up with the suggestion at the conclusion of the letter that that particular matter as well should be developed.

Perhaps I could phrase it as interpreting the letter to mean that there is a crack opened in the door relative to the greater provincial involvement in the matter of occupational training and manpower centres and a larger provincial involvement, because we feel very strongly that that is needed. The latter

part I believe, that the hon. member's question had to deal with, is the question of the Victoria Charter and I would like to give that matter some more thought. It is, I think, true, Mr. Speaker, that this was one of the major matters upon which the charter in Victoria foundered insofar as the Province of Quebec is concerned. However, there were others, and the new government has Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 330

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-7 not taken a definitive position with regard to that charter. but it is apparent from this letter received from the Prime Minister this morning that it is now incumbent upon the administration to make that further assessment if the Prime Minister of Quebec responds to this letter in such a way as to indicate that it very largely meets the concerns that their government had at the time. Superintendent of Treasury Branches MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the hon. the Provincial Treasurer.

Is it the intention of the government to appoint a new superintendent of Treasury Branches from within the existing employees? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I answered that question on Friday. Edmonton Public School Board MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Education, perhaps even more than one. Let me start by saying has the department or the minister given an answer to the request of the Edmonton Public School Board for some special consideration, I believe in the vicinity of $600,000? MR. HYNDMAN: No, Mr. Speaker, not yet.

We met with the Edmonton Public School Board a little more than a week ago and my officials are looking for further information which they have agreed to provide. We expect to be in a position to answer their questions and set forth the government's position within a short while. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Are there any school jurisdictions in the province that have made application or sought the ministers' approval with regard to the holding of a plebiscite? MR. HYNDMAN: Yes, Mr.

Speaker; firstly it's not, I believe, required to have approval from the minister or the government with respect to holding a plebiscite, but the school division of Wainwright is having a plebiscite on Saturday, March 18th for, I believe, some $120,000. Alberta Service Corps DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the hon. Minister of Youth, Culture and Recreation. Mr. Minister, I would like to know if there is any truth to the rumour that the Alberta Service Corps will be disolved? MR. SCHMID: As you just said yourself, it is a rumour.

However, I can tell you that it's not only going to be dissolved, but I have a much better program for them in mind then has been in the past. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 331

8-8 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 St. Paul Survey DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a another question of the hon. minister. Now, hon. minister you may not know this off the top of your head and, if not, I can answer this, but it's in relation to an Order of Council as passed in relation to the fact that there's going to be a grant of approximately $4,000 given to the town of St. Paul to set up a recreational survey. Now my question is, are your department and the people in the area not capable of doing this without bringing in an outside consultant? MR.

SCHMID: Maybe I should tell you first of all that tonight I have the people from St. Paul coming in to meet with me personally. St. Paul does have a particular problem because they have several areas of recreation available where others are missing, and we found that to have a correct study made - and to have it done as early as possible because they are looking at some other projects - we should get in an outside company because of the speed that they would like to have it done. Therefore we called this study for that matter. DR. BUCK: A supplementary then.

You are saying that the people on your staff cannot conduct a survey; you have to bring outside help? MR. SCHMID: It's an ongoing program, that of St. Paul recreation, and the study is being conducted in order to ascertain what the people of St. Paul really need and want. MR. GRUENWALD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. Minister without Portfolio in Charge of Tourism.

Sir, I am wondering if you are aware that the South Alberta Tourist and Convention Association does not receive per capita grants that are equitable to other tourist and convention associations in the Province of Alberta, and would you intend to correct this situation when the budgets are brought down? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, the grant is not a per capita grant; it's a grant given by the Alberta Government Travel Bureau on a matching basis. It's a 60 per cent grant from the government and 40 per cent from the sponsoring body in the local area.

There are 12 zones in Alberta and each zone receives a particular amount of money depending on the program they submit for approval. It's not on a per capita basis because, if it were, our total grant would probably be used up by the cities of Edmonton and Calgary. It's on a basis which promotes tourism over the total province rather than centring it in the two major centres. I can give you the figures, tomorrow probably, for the amount of money that each of the zones has received over the last fiscal year.

A proposal has been forwarded for consideration in the estimates for this fiscal year, which I am not able to give you at this time, but the total program and how it is established and run is under very strict regulations, and I would be happy to forward it to you. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 332

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-9 Alberta Advertising MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister without Portfolio in Charge of Tourism. Is the government considering looking after all advertisements for out of the province in order to make it unnecessary for each zone to carry out advertising of its own particular area? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, if I gather what the hon. member is asking, he wants to know if all of the advertising that is presently being done by the zone will be taken care of by the Alberta Government Travel Bureau. No, Mr.

Speaker, we rely to a great deal on the private sector to promote the tourist industry and the program that they come up with will be supported with funds up to 60 per cent, and if a brochure is part of that program we will be happy to support it. MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, wouldn't it be more economical and more far reaching if all of the advertising was looked after by the province, even though each zone paid a portion of it? MR. DOWLING: Well, I'm not sure, Mr. Speaker, if this is correct.

The program of the Alberta Government Travel Bureau is being revamped and hopefully during the estimates you will have an opportunity to question what we’re doing and I would be happy to deal with it extensively at that time. Thank you very much. Completion of Highway 15 DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the hon. Minister of Highways. I would like to know, first of all, hon. minister, will be the City of Edmonton be receiving any assistance in completing Highway 15 from the end of your responsibility into the city? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr.

Speaker, that's a budgetary matter and can be discussed at the time of the estimates. St. Albert Traffic Lights DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, a second question, will the hon. minister inform the House what percentage of the costs the Department of Highways will be paying in proportion to what the Town of St. Albert will be paying for the traffic lights on the highway that goes through there? This is not the amount but the percentage. I'm sure the budget won't hinder you there, sir. MR. COPITHORNE: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I haven't sat down and sharpened my pencil to the point where I have worked out percentages, and in any area -- Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 333

8-10 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 DR. BUCK: A ball park figure, hon. Minister, will be fine -- is it 60/40, 50/50, 40/60? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, maybe if the hon. member would put that on the Order Paper, I will get him an accurate answer. DR. BUCK: I am glad the hon. Premier directed you in what you were to say. Unemployment Insurance MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Social Development. On Friday, a question was asked related to the problems of people who haven't been able to collect their unemployment insurance benefits quickly enough.

I wonder if the hon. minister would advise the House to what extent his department is ready to fill the gap created by the delays in payments under the Unemployment Insurance Act. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of sides to the important consideration involved in the hon. member's question. In direct answer I would say that so far as I know the department is, in fact, filling the gap in providing assistance, in some cases knowing it will be for a short period, for people who are shortly to receive the federal benefits.

The other side of the question, of course, is whether or not, if it's a case of straight delay on the part of the federal government, the recipient will either be receiving the same funds twice, or the province will be expending funds which should properly be expended by the federal government. In connection with that I've had discussions with my colleague the hon. Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs, and representations are being prepared to the federal government in regard to that matter. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, is this temporary relief extended to single people as well as families? MR.

CRANFORD: Mr. Speaker, if there are cases where it is not being extended, which the hon. member knows about, I would be glad to have them looked into. I have certainly conveyed no directive to the department to draw any distinction among applicants. MR. NOTLEY: A supplementary question on this issue, Mr. Speaker, this time to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Has the government given any consideration to advancing temporary loans from the Treasury Branches to people who have not as yet been able to collect their unemployment insurance benefits, but who are eligible to receive them? MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, I mentioned on Friday that several aspects of the Treasury Branches were under consideration at the present time and when we have made and completed a full review I will be in a position to reply to your question. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 334

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-11 MR. DRAIN: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Provincial Treasurer include in his deliberations the possibility of underwriting income tax rebates which are now presently being used as a means of exploitation in many cases of poverty, where people need it? This of course, would be probably something that would help considerably. MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, certainly I would say, as I have said, there are many, many aspects and situations which the hon. members are raising in connection with this, and I think they are of valid concern.

What I would do is encourage any of you who have considerations which you would like our government to consider in this review, do by all means send me a letter and I'll follow them up and see what can be done. I think it's difficult to answer a specific situation without reviewing the total context. MR. NOTLEY: A supplementary question to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. In view of the serious situation among people who aren't able to get their unemployment insurance benefits as well as the people the hon.

Member from Pincher Creek referred to with respect to T4 slips, in view of their immediate circumstances, could the hon. Provincial Treasurer give the House some indication as to when this review will take place, so we might have some idea as to whether or when the Treasury Branch could fill this role? MR. MINIELY: Well the first thing I'd like to say is certainly that I appreciate the valid concern that you have. I think it is important, though, that hon. members realize, with respect to Treasury Branch policy, that the Treasury Branch's total loaning policy is one over which the government has some control.

With respect to individual loans to individual citizens of Alberta, I am sure you will appreciate that in no way should the government interfere with the individual loan policy and the proper administration of these loans within the broad policy of the Treasury Branches. Certainly, with respect to that, if the hon. member for Spirit River-Fairview would like me to examine this particular aspect to see if anything could be done, I'd be happy to report back to you on it. Treasury Branches MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Has the hon.

Provincial Treasurer noticed any large withdrawals by the depositors from the Treasury Branch? MR. MINIELY: The answer to that question is no. MR. TAYLOR: One other supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. There is considerable concern among many people in regard to the indecision of the government regarding treasury branches. Can the hon. minister give us the assurance that there is no thought of closing down the treasury branches? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 335

8-12 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 MR. MINIELY: We've made our position very clear on this, Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member's question. I think this has been done several times and again we'll assure you that the treasury branches are going to be, if anything, expanded. We think they can play a vital role in Alberta, and we will pursue this in our total review of the future of the treasury branches. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, has there been any consideration given to the possible sale of the treasury branches to a chartered bank? MR. BUCKWELL: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the hon.

Provincial Treasurer a question? Would the hon. Provincial Treasurer consider having a legislative committee study the future role of the Treasury Branch? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, that is certainly a reasonable matter for us to consider, but I think our reaction to that would be that the total financial institutions within the province, and their effectiveness in terms of our transition period economically, will have a great deal of government policy input. I'm sure, during the course of this session, that many of the ministers will be commenting upon the matter raised by the hon. member.

But I feel it has to be something that is established by way of government policy and then considered by way of debate here in the Assembly. So with respect, I would suggest that it doesn't, in my view, form an appropriation area for a select committee of the Legislature, at least at this time. Unemployment Insurance (cont.) MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address a question to the hon. Attorney General, and it is with respect again to the people who have been put in a very difficult position because of the failure to collect their unemployment insurance benefits. Has the hon.

Attorney General given any consideration to appropriate legal action in dealing with those firms which are taking advantage of the desperate circumstances of the people, and charging interest rates which are completely usurious? MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, I'll try to make my speech shorter than the question. The answer is yes, we have received some complaints. We're looking into it. One of the things that need to be kept in mind, of course is that the amount of the charge for the loan is an interest rate and that falls within federal government jurisdiction.

At this moment we're still gathering information and I do not know the exact terms of the arrangements all of these companies make with their customers. The Police Act MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, a question to the hon. Attorney General. Do I conclude properly from what you said the other day that The Police Act will not be brought before the Legislature at this session? MR. LEITCH: I do not anticipate bringing it before the House this session, Mr. Speaker. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 336

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-13 MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary. In view of that, is there any thought of changing any of the regulations or adding to or deleting some of the present regulations of The Police Act before the fall session? MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, at the present moment I don't have any regulations that I plan to pass under that act, but there is a possibility that something could be done later on in the year. Licence Plate Outlets DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask a question of the hon. Minister of Highways. Will there be any additional licence plate outlets opened in the City of Edmonton?

I know there is always a big traffic jam down at your building; I was wondering if there would be further outlets. MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, the answer is no. We have opened up some additional licence receiving areas in outlying communities. Alberta Hospitals MR. DIXON: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the Minister of Health and Social Development. The Alberta Mental Health Association and the present advisor to the Department of Health and Social Development have recently disclosed that the Alberta Hospital in Edmonton and the Alberta Hospital in Ponoka are now in a dangerous state.

I was wondering if the minister was aware of the situation, and is his department planning to answer these grave charges in any way? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made reference to grave charges without specifying them and therefore I don't suppose I can answer to what hasn't been asked. The overall question of the status of the institutions mentioned is part of an overall review and a program of action in regard to mental health which will very shortly be before this House. MR. DIXON: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

The reason I asked a question, to clarify it, is I was just wondering what are the dangerous situations that your advisor is talking about? Not me -- what your advisor is talking about. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I don't think the hon. member is suggesting that he has been talking to my advisor. I think he is referring to a speculative newspaper

article that he's read or some news report and I'm not going to comment on that. MR. DIXON: Just for clarification, Mr. Speaker, I'm reading from the Alberta Mental Health brief to the government. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 337

8-14 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member would have assisted by making reference to the fact that he was referring to the brief when he asked his question. All the matters that have been referred to in the brief are matters that the government has under consideration. MR. DIXON: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Is it then, that there is no dangerous situation existing in these two hospitals? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is inviting me to draw a conclusion which he would wish to lead me to if he could.

I do not allege that there are completely satisfactory situations in all institutions. We're always working towards the improvement of them. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals. Is the department or government giving any special study to the types of coal which are found in the Drumheller Valley? MR. DICKIE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can say we're dealing in that area and when the new Coal Conservation Act comes in for discussion, we'll review the program as outlined at that time. DPW News Releases MR. COOPER: Mr.

Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Public Works. Does the Department of Public Works intend to issue written publicity releases to all news media regarding contracts awarded for new provincial buildings? DR. BACKUS: Mr. Speaker, in answer to that question, it has been the habit of the Department of Public Works to issue news releases on this. we will probably be continuing to do this. MR. COOPER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Would those same news releases be circulated to all the members of the Legislature, Mr. Minister? DR.

BACKUS: If this is the desire of members of the Legislature to have them circulated as well, I can certainly have this done and will speak to my department about having it done. If this is the desire of members of the Legislature to have them circulated to them as well, I can certainly have this done, and will speak to my department about having it done. Dept. of Highways News Releases MR. COOPER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to a different minister -- to the Minister of Highways. Mr.

Minister, does your department intend to issue releases regarding contracts awards for new provincial Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 338

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-15 highways, and if the answer is yes, will you circulate them to all the MLA's as well? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, our policy has been that we advertised our jobs, and on the acceptance of the bid, there has been a news release issued on them. At this time, we have not issued a news release to the members representing the areas. MR. SPEAKER: Five minutes remain of the question period. The hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View. Government Offices in Calgary MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Public Works.

I understand that the government is advertising for about 25,000 feet of space in Calgary. Would he care to tell the House what that space is for and whether it is an expansion of the services? DR. BACKUS: Briefly, Mr. Speaker, this is for expansion of Health and Development. I can't give you full details at this time, but if you'd care to submit that as a written question, I'll be happy to give you a full answer on that. MR. LUDWIG: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Has the office space in the John J. Bowlen Building been exhausted? DR. BACKUS: Mr. Speaker, I again would appreciate a written request for question.

As far as I know, I don't believe that the space has been exhausted, but there may be a requirement for additional building in this area for the particular space referred to in his previous question, which may not be satisfactorily be fitted in to the Bowlen Building. DPW Calgary Staff MR. LUDWIG: A supplementary to the hon. minister. Is there any intention of reducing staff in DPW in the Calgary area? DR. BACKUS: We are reorganizing the department to some extent. At the present time, however, I don't have any specific intention of reducing staff in Calgary.

Later on, as the reorganization occurs, there may be changes in staff, but certainly no significant reduction. 4-H Clubs MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Culture, Youth and Recreation. Have there been submissions from interested breeders' associations across the province concerning the possibility Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 339

8-16 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 of the 4-H program being moved from your department to the Department of Agriculture? And secondly what is your response to these representations that have been made to you? MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member's question, I have received three letters requesting the return of the 4-H Clubs to the Department of Agriculture. These three letters came from breeders' associations. One of them has already replied that it is now quite satisfied to have the 4-H Clubs remain in our department.

I have several other letters commending us for the work we are doing, and I would be quite prepared to reply to the question in writing, because I can then, with statistics, prove that the move was an excellent one. The Margarine Act MR. BENOIT: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address my question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. It has to do with the current situation in the dairy and oil seed industry. Has the hon. minister, considering the current circumstances, given any consideration - or will he be giving any consideration in the future - to the possibility of removing the colour

section in The Margarine Act? DR. HORNER: These matters are under review, Mr. Speaker, and when a decision is reached, the policy will be announced in the House. 4-H Clubs (cont.) MR. MOORE: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Agriculture with respect to the 4-H program. How many letters has the Minister of Agriculture received requesting that the program be moved back to the Department of Agriculture? DR. HORNER: Numerous ones, Mr. Speaker. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, what has been the response the minister has given to the letters? DR. HORNER: Well, Mr.

Speaker, under the guidance of the new Minister of Youth, Culture and Recreation, we in Agriculture are pleased to be able to co-operate with him in the formation of an ideal 4-H program for the rural youth of Alberta. Superintendent of Treasury Branches (cont.) MR. WILSON: In view of the hon. the Premier's previous answers to questions regarding the Provincial Treasury Branch, would you advise us, sir, if it is the government's intention to advertise the position of a new superintendent of treasury tranches? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 340

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-17 MR LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, first of all, it's not the Provincial Treasury Branch, it's the Treasury Branch of the Province of Alberta, and I've given my answer and we will in due course deal with it in the Assembly. Highways Commission MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the hon. Minister of Highways and transport. Is it the intention of the government to appoint a Highways Commission? MR. COPITHORNE: Mr. Speaker, if it is the intention to appoint a Highways Commission, it will be announced at a later date. ORDERS OF THE DAY head: THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR.

LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, I wish to join the many hon. members who have extended congratulations to you on your appointment to the office of Speaker of the legislative Assembly, and for the manner in which you are discharging your responcilibites. I wish you a successful career as Speaker, and I'm sure that your performance in the last few days is an indication that the office will be very well discharged.

In making my address to the Assembly today I'm rather concerned about the Speech from the Throne, not so much as to what it contains, but because some of the major mandate issues that were discussed during the election, and which are of serious concern to the people of this province, are not included in the Speech from the Throne. And I'm going to introduce just one issue that I will deal with later. The main concern of the people of this province was the matter of education costs and property taxation.

And I'm saying that when this matter was aired before the public, there was never an indication given that this was going to become the subject matter of a study. The indication given, and many people believed it, who are now expressing grave doubts -- the impression given by the hon. the Premier and his colleagues was that this was going to be something that will be dealt with as soon as possible. We now learn that a study of rather broad proportions is going to be conducted, and some vague reference was made by the hon. the Premier that this matter will be dealt with in the future.

I'm just raising this as one example of the serious concern that the people have with regard to issues which affect the individual and taxation and property. And there are several others. I believe, in speaking about the Speech from the Throne, that one ought to look at the speech and give it an analysis.

On Page 1 we have and I quote: "Change will be viewed not with fear and apprehension, but with optimism, with a sense of challenge and opportunities to be grasped." And after a very brief performance of the Government of the Province, I believe that the hon. the Premier and his colleagues have created a considerable amount of apprehension in the minds of all hon. members. I'm referring to their effort to deal with one of the few real reform items in the Speech from the Throne.

When you have the government amending its own motion before debate is under way, it is an indication that not only will reform and change be viewed with fear and apprehension, but that there is some display of confusion as to what is intended by a major clause in Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 341

8-18 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 the Speech from the Throne. And I believe this will be an indication of things to come. One of the matters in the speech which ought to be criticised by all concerned, and ought to be objectively assessed - and I would like to see the government withdraw it from its position in the Speech from the Throne - is the matter of allowing its government members and backbenchers to be appointed to caucus committees and travel through the province retrieving information for the hon. Premier, at public expense. This is something that I find repugnant to the democratic way of doing things and I would like to see a good debate on having that

section in The Legislative Assembly Act repealed. The kind of behaviour displayed by the government on this particular point is an indication that this

section could be exploited, and could be exploited legally. My comment on this is that it does not appear to be the proper thing to do. I don't know whether there is any precedent for this kind of behaviour; we have never indulged in this kind of operation at public expense, and as I stated, this matter lends itself to exploitation. I believe that the right thing not only has to be done, but it has to appear to be done. The government would be well advised to reconsider its position because criticism of its behaviour will continue until the matter is cleared.

One other matter that I would like to comment on is the matter of calling two sessions. Very commendable, but it is underlined, underscored by the fact that this is one way of having more open government. I fail to see the logic of that endorsement, and I would like to caution that we have to bear in mind not how many sessions we call, but what we accomplish. We mustn't use the next session coming up in the year, whenever that will be, as an excuse to postpone decisions which may be required to be made now. There will be examples, at least one very good example, of this happening right from the beginning.

So to that part of the Speech from the Throne of calling two sessions, it is achievement that will count and not the number of sessions called or the amount of taxpayers' money that we can spend by sitting longer than we need to. One of the matters that deserves to be very carefully discussed during the Speech from the Throne, and during the debate of the improvident Bill of Rights, is what is said about it in the Speech from the Throne. I would like to refer to page 6 of the Speech from the Throne where it says, "immediate priorities".

These immediate priorities are a bit fascinating because immediate means something that has to be done almost now; it has precedence over everything else. Priority means prior in time and importance, and one can get many

definitions of the words "immediate priorities." And if the Bill of Rights which is set out right under the immediate program priorities is an indication of how the hon. the Premier will deal with this issue, then I say that if a bill that was introduced on the first day of the sitting and then given an indirect six months hoist - a bill that is No. 1 under immediate program priorities I am wondering what will happen to things that are not of such immediate program priorities. This is a clear indication that our hon. the Premier will say one thing and do another thing and people are catching on very quickly.

It's an indication of more of the same to come. There are a number of questions which ought to be raised and answered by the present government, and one of them, Mr. Speaker, is the matter of labour legislation. I would like to quote part of a letter apparently signed by Peter Lougheed, MLA, and here is how it reads.

This is a letter to the Civil Service of the province: "In conclusion I would like to state that a Progressive Conservative Government would move very quickly to give the Civil Service a much broader and definitive act which would give Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 342

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-19 the members the same basic bargaining right enjoyed by organized labour in the province." This is a very important issue, but it isn't raised in the Speech from the Throne and I'm suggesting that the Civil Service is going to try and make the Premier come across with this one and I also believe that the safe money would be on a strategic withdrawal by the hon. Premier.

A number of speeches by the hon. members recommending that more spending be made throughout the province, but in particular criticizing the past government for not having done enough here and there and everywhere. Maybe some of that criticism is justifiable, but it has to be reconciled in the light of the furor of the present government in relation to the amount of money that is avilable to be spent.

And sooner or later the hon. members opposite are going to learn, probably from their Treasurer, that advocating spending is very popular, paying for it requires raising taxes and perhaps telling the taxpayer that it's going to cost him more. That is the part that is now the responsibility of the government. I am of the opinion that there will be a serious change of thinking in a lot of the good things that are recommended for the people when the economy -- the revenue position -- is explained to the people of this province.

There are a number of questions I would like to raise, which I would expect the hon. members opposite to answer when they speak either on this debate or in any future debates. The matter of the expansion of the Court House in Calgary was very seriously pursued and pressed by the hon. members opposite when they were in the opposition. I am suggesting that the situation so far as the main Court House is concerned in Calgary, has become worse in the last year, so that if there is a need to add three or more storeys to that Court House that the need is far greater today then it was a year ago.

I would like to see the hon. members who pursue this matter, particularly the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals and the hon. Minster of Municipal Affairs, the hon. the Attorney General, take a good look at this and see if construction on this much needed facility can be commenced in the near future. I am aware of the fact, in being in the Court House from time to time, that the space situation has deterioated, particularly in view of the fact that many cases which used to be handled by the magistrates court are now finding their way to the Supreme Court, the higher courts, because of legal aid.

There is, therefore, some urgency about looking at this matter. Another issue that I would like the hon. Minister of Public Works to deal with -- I see he has left his seat -- is the Remand Centre in Calgary. Remember that a year ago the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and the Mayer of Calgary and all the council members were very excited about the possible delay in construction of the Remand Centre. I later announced that we would make every effort to have the Remand Centre tendered for construction in November of 1971 or as soon thereafter as possible.

I now find that there has been a serious delay in the Remand Centre due to something or other that the city has proposed to do, and the Remand Centre, in my opinion, will not be tendered until late fall of this year -- almost a year later than we had intended ourselves. One should be prepared to look at some of these delays objectively to determine whether they are needed and whether what is done will be an improvement. I am prepared to do that.

The only concern I have is that there was almost a wave of hysteria in the council of Calgary about the matter a year ago, and a year later it is admitted that the delay is caused by the city. Not in any way criticizing the hon. Minister of Public Works, who was fair enough, we used to hear, very often, from the hon. members opposite in previous years, the issue of appeals from administrative boards and Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 343

8-20 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 tribunals. This was a constant issue that was raised from time to time with some support from the legal profession, support from very well written periodicals by learned people, and I often wondered whether we shouldn't take a good look at this issue. It is rather unusual, Mr. Speaker, that now that we have the hon. members who were demanding this kind of reform in administrative law, now that we have them in the government, and 12 lawyers together, that they should remain silent on this issue.

I believe we could expect some leadership from them now in keeping with their past performance and declare where they stand on it. I think that this is not an unreasonable request and I am sure that the hon. the Attorney General will have some remarks to make on this issue. I would like to recommend that when the proposed museum is built in Calgary with the intended provincial grant, serious consideration be given to maintaining the present museum, that is the old Court House in Calgary, and preserving that building as an historical site.

There are very few buildings in Alberta that have a more impressive relationship to the past, as far as Alberta's history is concerned, than this old court house. It not only is a fairly attractive building, it is located in downtown Calgary, but it could be put to use in several ways, primarily in the manner that it is used now. I would like this matter to be seriously considered by this government because we could not preserve every old building as an historical site. There are some buildings where to do otherwise would be doing an injustice to future generations of Albertans.

But I am very strongly in favour that the area can be beautified and that this matter ought to be taken into consideration before other plans are made for it. I agree with the hon. Minister of Youth, Culture and Recreation, that it is very valuable land. That is all the more reason why the recommendation I am making ought to be considered. I believe that this government has a serious accounting to make to the people of this province, and that is on the matter of an issue I raised a little earlier; that is the removal of education costs from property.

This one cannot be permitted to pass without some specific stand by the present administration as to what is intended to be done. This was, in my opinion, the real mandate issue in the last election, and we on this side have no intention of letting the hon. the Premier and his colleagues by-pass this issue to a convenient date in the future. I see the hon. Minister of Education is laughing about this, but a lot of people are not. They are very disturbed. This whole situation is likened unto a father who tells his young son, "I'm going to get you a bicycle for Christmas". Come Christmas time there is no bicycle.

The son says to the father, "Where is my bicycle?" and the father says: "Well, son, I told you I'd get you a bicycle for Christmas, but I didn't tell you which Christmas." I think a man like that should be able to hold his head up high and walk proudly. So, Mr. Speaker, this is a serious issue and a lot of people are concerned. They want answers and the hon. members are now smiling, but I believe they will have to account if they are accountable at all. It is our job, I believe, to see that they take a stand, and a withdrawal on this one can be fatal to any long range plans of the hon. Premier in office.

The taxpayer concern is one more matter that should be discussed in the Legislature on this debate. The people are aware of many things that were proposed to be done during the election, and some of the things that were proposed were nice things to have, but the facts of life have to be faced, not only by the government, but by the people. The people are now wondering how much is this going to cost? How much will the taxes go up? But this whole issue should be determined in the light of a proposal made on page 11. I see the hon. Provincial Treasurer isn't here either, but this might be his big responsibility.

Either they will come across with this, or the hon. Premier will have a lot of explaining to do as to why he made this kind of a promise and didn't do anything about it. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 344

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-21 I'd like to quote a portion of the Speech from the Throne under Position Papers. It says: "Therefore, my government intends to start a new approach by presenting to the Legislature, from time to time, a series of New Direction Position Papers, so that the members and also the public may have a better appreciation of policy positions or alternatives which may form the foundation for subsequent legislative or budgetary proposals." This statement ties in directly with what I'm saying, in that the hon.

Provincial Treasurer ought to issue a White Paper on taxation so that the people will know which way we're going on the matter of removing education costs from property. I believe that this is an urgent matter, and a priority matter. I believe that if the hon. Premier and his government do not take a stand on this during this session, that they will be, not only subject to a lot of public criticism, but perhaps will deserve public condemnation on an issue of this nature. The other matter that I would like to deal with briefly is the Bill of Rights.

There is a history to the Bill of Rights in this province, starting with 1962 when the hon. member Mr. Watkins introduced a bill. It was somewhat along the lines of Bill 1, which is before the House now, introduced by the hon. Premier, but had a lot more to it. This was in 1962. At that time a lot of opinion expressed by authorities on the Bill of Rights was that this Bill of Rights was not really doing anything for the individual; it sounded good, it was the enshrinement of the law as it was, and that is admitted.

I would like to point out that the debates at that time were quite justifiable since it took almost ten years for the Bill of Rights of Canada really to get recognition from the courts. And I'm referring to the Drybones case where a split decision was given in favour of an accused, Drybones, for having been intoxicated off a reservation. This is a first real indication that the Bill of Rights may have some meaning, albeit to a very limited number of people. Then the Bill of Rights of 1970, Bill 140, about 39 sections more or less, 14 pages, was introduced by the hon.

Premier as a high priority matter, by the hon. member Mr. Lougheed then. This was flashed around a lot, discussed and received fair mileage. Then in 1971, the hon. member and the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Lougheed introduced Bill 145 and was very indignant when he was not permitted to debate that bill. That bill also has about 39 sections, more or less -- I'm quoting from memory -- and about 14 pages. Then a year later, more than a year later, the hon. Premier introduces Bill 1, which in my opinion, is a slightly watered down version of Mr.

Watkins' Bill of 1962, not having nearly the same significance or meaning to the people, but is almost entirely the Bill of Rights of Canada, which as I said previously has had very little real meaning to the people of this country until the Drybones case, and even then the

interpretation placed on that bill is such that perhaps a responsible government could repeal legislation which is repugnant or an abridgement of individual rights and freedoms, rather than leave it to the courts to determine what the act actually says. But then the performance of the hon.

Premier on this Bill of Rights has to be brought to the attention of this House and the people of this province, because as I stated, on page 6, this was a high priority, immediate program priority, and it's the first time that a leader of a government would rush the introduction of a bill, discuss some of the principle of the bill on the opening date and then give what I call a six month's hoist to the bill, which he argued was of such urgent, immediate priority.

I have come to the conclusion that we have a problem with this government because they will say one thing and before the sentence is finished they will do another thing. I believe that not only the Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 345

8-22 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 hon. members ought to look with some concern on this kind of behaviour but the people of the province are asking questions. They're asking questions not only what happened to the Bill of Rights; I believe the immediate priority was to introduce it, but not to pass it. I'm stating, Mr. Speaker, that after looking at the hon. members and getting a clear indication of what is to be happening in the future, I doubt very much whether there is going to be any real reform in this field, the way the zeal for reform of the hon. Premier on this issue has waned after election.

Otherwise an explanation would be in order why the urgent Bill 145 of 1971 has been pushed back to some future session to be considered, or perhaps to be studied and have public representation. It's obvious that the hon. members who had instant solutions to all the problems that were before us in the last session are now backing down from questions which require simple answers. Everything now is a matter of policy decision, of review, of study, of boards, of committees, and we find that these gentlemen opposite didn't have the answers, that the impression created in previous sessions was most misleading.

There wasn't a question, there wasn't a problem in Alberta that the hon. members opposite didn't have an answer to last year, or more than one. They had so many answers that I often wondered -- when the hon. Premier had all his answers -- I got the impression one of them may have been right, but I also got the impression that he didn't know which one it was.

We have an indication of the performance of this government in the last eight or nine days that we, on this side, better ask questions, better let the people know what they're doing, better demand that the government take a stand and not keep the people guessing about what's going to happen to taxes, what's going to happen to education and what's going to happen to the Bill of Rights and what it means. Mr. Speaker, I believe I've made my position clear that although the government has given us an indication of what is to come, I have expressed my views as to what my responsibilities are on this side.

We will watch carefully but I think that the answers will be forthcoming or the hon. Premier and. his government will be subjected to serious public criticism and possibly condemnation. One more item I'd like to deal with and that is the Bill of Rights. Perhaps someone ought to tell the hon. Premier that when the Rt. Hon. John Diefenbaker introduced a Bill of Rights in the House of Commons, that bill was given very wide coverage and I believe a lot of mileage was obtained by the hon. Prime Minister.

It should also be observed that in the next election he was very soundly defeated, and the lessen that is to be learned from that is not to place all your stock in the Bill of Rights. There are an awful lot of "bread and butter" issues that have to be dealt with, and I would say a stand should be taken on them now. Thank you Mr. Speaker. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, it's with a great deal of pleasure and anticipation of being able to make some small contribution that I enter the Throne Speech debate today.

I will choose the occasion to address my first few formal remarks with the very agreeable custom of saying a few things about my constituency of Edmonton Parkallen. As other members have so well expressed here in the Chamber since the opening several days ago, for me, as for each of us it is indeed an honour to be selected in this way to be the representative of any group of Albertans.

I wish to thank and publicly record my appreciation to the citizens and particularly the citizens of Edmonton Parkallen who have accorded me the honour of being their representative and the Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 346

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-23 opportunity to serve then and, Mr. Speaker, the people of this province. [The Deputy Speaker in the Chair.] As I go through my remarks, I think, having regard to the breadth of the portfolio that I hold, matters will occur to hon. members from time to time that fall within the range of my responsibilities, and they may expect some remarks in respect to most or all of these items. I hope to speak again, in a general way, during the budget debate, and cover some points that won't, perhaps, be covered at this time.

I just wanted to warn hon. members that I have a list of about seven or eight items, including the reorganization of the department, the discontinuation of the payment of Medicare premiums for those over 65, some general remarks that would be appropriate before the introduction of the bill in regard to The Medical Health Act, a further few remarks in regard to some analysis of the mental health program that has been done to date, a little bit in regard to programs for the handicapped including sheltered workshops, and also a few remarks in regard to community health and social development centres.

Other matters may be more appropriate to the budget and we'll have to deal with them at that time. I do want to say, Mr. Speaker, I'll address you for just a moment as Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'd like to join in the congratulations that other members have offered in effect to your selection to your high position by this Assembly, and even in the absence of the Speaker, to further record my satisfaction that one as well qualified as he is has been chosen for the Speaker, and has received the support and, I think, respect of all hon. members, even so early in the carrying out of his duties.

I want also to say to the mover and seconder of the Speech from the Throne, the address and reply, that they have made a great contribution to this debate already, and I congratulate them on the quality of the speeches that they gave on their first occasions speaking in this Assembly. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as we slowly get down to the point of talking about hon. gentlemen opposite, which is unavoidable from time to time, I hope that the gentleman who has the honour to represent Pincher Creek-Crowsnest, and appears to me to have such an amiable personality, won't mind if I take the liberty of making a slight play on his name. I did want to observe that viewing what I have of hon. gentlemen opposite to this point, I thought how useful it was for them to have a Drain in the corner.

And in particular, although I regret the absence of the hon. member from Calgary Mountain View at this time, I'll say that I had fleeting thoughts of him when that idea came to mind. I hope that in the presentation of the case that I have in mind for my department, I will approach the grasp that has been shown by the Minister of the Environment in regard to his department. I selected him because he is one of the educators, I think, of those of us who are new here, including, I'm sure, some of those who are new across the floor.

In particular, when one of the hon. gentlemen opposite that hasn't risen with a dictionary in hand -- which has already happened in this session -- and I can understand that in respect to many areas in getting familiar with a new vocabulary, I notice the Minister of the Environment referred to gasification. At the time, as the new word drifted in one ear, I said, "What is that that he is saying about the hon. Member from Drumheller?" And then, Mr.

Speaker, I appreciated as I listened more, that what he was talking about was the generation of electricity by power of coal, rather than the power of wind, and everything became entirely clear. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 347

8-24 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 Mr. Speaker, I do feel deeply the honour of being associated with the splendid and long tradition of the parliamentary system. I feel deeply the opportunity for service that is to be found here in the Legislative Assembly, and I'm well aware that throughout the centuries parliament has been both the protector and the durable symbol of our right of free speech, and therefore, more closely identified than anything else with the freedom of mankind. Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary system is the cornerstone of the process by which our people may progress if they wish.

And that is so because it is as much representative of people and the wishes of people as can be obtained in any society where free minds range over every shade of opinion. We heard some quotations earlier in the session, twice from a very unexpected quarter, of the Right Honourable Mr. Disraeli and I have a short quotation from Edmond Burke that I would like to add to the record.

When he was speaking of the House of Commons he said; "The virtue, the spirit, the essence of the House of Commons consists in its being the express image of the feelings of the nation." And by the very nature of it, parliamentary government requires that any group or party that would undertake parliamentary responsibility should include supporters from each segment of the population in each part of the province, and preferably, that it should not claim the support of the whole membership of any particular group in the province to the exclusion of the general interest. Mr.

Speaker, I believe our government has this broad representation and this broad support which is acknowledged to be of such importance. And in the atmosphere of this Assembly, where shortly a Bill of Rights will be debated, I believe it appropriate to remark that the freedom of choice by which political methods and systems are tried and by which they are judged, and indeed improved, on the basis of a deep abiding faith in democracy and its moral foundations, that the most basic right that each of us as free men and women could claim is that right of free expression here.

And I hope this Legislative Assembly will be worthy in full measure of the heritage from which it stems. Mr. Speaker, during the 1960's an American social psychologist, by the name of Donald Michaels, predicted, and again I read a short quotation as follows, and this may be sort of heady stuff for legislators to wrestle with from time to time. He said: "Those elected to government will for many years be chiefly the products of our past.

And they will reflect the perspectives of a population that will still be chiefly a product of the past." In substance his prediction was that the necessary rationalization of government acitivities will be slowed by politicans, by members of the public, and by powerful bureaucrats whose status is deeply invested in their offices and in their agencies. Mr. Speaker, what an interesting time to ponder the clear implications of recent political changes in Alberta.

These recent changes can only be regarded as a reflection of the popular will of the people, that change will in fact take place in both policy and administration. The Speech from the Throne is a document that both points to these necessary new directions and yet has as its supporting base, as in the example of the elimination of health care premiums for those over 65, the fact that as of the time that I speak, much has already been achieved. I indicated that I would deal with the question of the organization of my department.

It is well known to all members of the Assembly, not only the record of departments of this type across Canada in the various provincial government and the basic structure of the federal government, but it has been an area of much change in thought over at least a decade. The theory of having the two departments of Health on the one hand and Social Development on the other, put together for the purposes not only of integration and Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 348

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-25 efficiency of operation, but for the only real purpose that could be hoped for ultimately, and that is to provide to the citizen, to whom service is to be provided, the most effective service. This being the philosophy behind the integration for a merger of such departments in the various governments across the country, some have had experiences that have caused them to reverse themselves in that, and some are in the position of where they have maintained the separate departments.

In Alberta, the situation is that less than a year has gone by since the formal act of merger has taken place. It therefore brought with it a period prior to that during which, no doubt, there was some unsettlement in the department. The change in government as of last fall, I think left the employees in the department and to some extent the public, wondering if we would carry through with what had been begun by my predecessor, the hon. Member from Little Bow. We said publicly last fall, that we would carry this experiment forward throughout what had to be considered a fair testing time of approximately a year.

We felt it was necessary, as it often is, with statements of that type to make them publicly at the time, but now for the information of the House and its relevance to the department for which I have the responsibility, I am giving that same information to the House.

One of the early decisions that was made in this regard, after reviewing the advantages and disadvantages of allowing for the prospective review period after approximately a year, is that I felt in order to have an experiment to be a valid one, I should feel obliged to have for the benefit of department employees in particular, and those associated with dealings with the department, a firm commitment to the philosophy of the integration of the services as long as it can achieve its objective, which is the ultimate provision of a superior brand of service than could be expected from the separation of the departments and all of the history in that regard.

As of December of 1971, Mr. Speaker, I began with some structural modification in the department, including the appointment of a Chief Deputy Minister as a general manager of the department. I think it fair to say that no attempt was made in that to create a new classification of civil servant. The Chief Deputy Minister is, in fact, a Deputy Minister and is the principal administrator of the department, with the other two deputies having more service oriented responsibilities and reporting to the Chief Deputy Minister.

Since that time, and the question having arisen as to whether or not the original breakdown of the department between institutions and services was a valid one, some steps have been taken with regard to integration of support services. This includes the budgetary planning areas and research and forward planning generally. These have been integrated and operate across the whole department rather than separately.

Also, as I mentioned, there was some question of the breakdown as between institutions and services, and so some changes have been made which relate more closely the institutions with the services that they provide, and the deputy ministers are allowed to give leadership which is consistent with the provision of the services to the particular institutions rather than the artificial separation of institutions on one hand and services on the other. I want to stress that we don't look upon the creation of institutions as any particular achievement on behalf of the people of Alberta at any time.

We are far more interested in assessing what we are trying to achieve, in the delivery of the ultimate service, and seeing that whatever we do is related to the program and not tied to some institution. So often it can happen that you create a institution and then you want to make all of the people who are supposed to be served by it, conform to some rigidity which results from the structure you have created. We don't want to do that, we want to Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 349

8-26 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 work from programs for the people and make the institutions conform to those objectives. Further, as to the reorganization of the department, there are two new sections which are responsible at this point to the chief deputy minister - one for mental health and one for services to the handicapped. This involves a reorganization of the former position of director of Mental Health which was filled in only acting capacity at the time we assumed office last fall.

We believe that changes that are not complete in this area yet, were essential in order to give the programs the priority standing that they have been accorded by the government and which were referred to in that way in the Speech from the Throne. We also found that handicapped programs suffered over the years as a result of confusion between the mentality ill on one hand and the mentally handicapped on the other, and we are in the process of a re-evaluation of all of these programs in order to make them most effective. Mr.

Speaker, I mentioned that one of the early commitments met by the government is one that I was assuredly very proud of as Minister of Health and Social Development. That discussion was shown I think, to be very much the voice of the people at the time in regard to relieving senior citizens of the obligation to pay premiums on health care. This was responded to by the new government in a very short period of time.

We place it among our highest priorities and when elected we were ready with the program which was announced shortly after that and had the effect of removing this premium from the people over 65, effective as of January 1st, 1972. Occasionally I have heard the hon. gentlemen opposite debating among themselves and attempting to debate, indeed, with us the meaning of 'now'. One of them came armed with a dictionary. We are satisfied to leave the

interpretation of that in the hands of the public and to allow them to draw their own conclusions in regard to the significance of a 'now' of four months, as compared with the 'now' that the previous administration was able to muster in respect to that type of reform -- I suppose it would be accurate and fair to say the differences between the 'new government' and the 'then government'. I was just trying to make my little contribution, gentlemen, to the understanding of these terms. Mr.

Speaker, the rationale, of course, was well known with respect to the reform I have just mentioned, but our government believes that, particularly in times of inflation which have been with us so consistently, the senior citizen is entitled to priority wherever possible in government programs. Albertans 65 years of age and over are generally trapped on a fixed pension income and on very tight budgets at a time when medical and drug costs are rising too rapidly.

Senior citizens are in a difficult personal financial position and the cost of Medicare and optional health benefits through the Blue Cross Flan constitute a significant annual expense. Mr. Speaker, I think it can be said that the reaction has generally been favourable, not only from those over 65 but from other fair minded citizens in other age groups who know that that demonstration of appreciation for what has been contributed by the senior citizens over the years was overdue at the time. Mr.

Speaker, coming to mental health, it has been made clear that legislation in this respect will be introduced to the House during the session, and so I would deal with it only in general terms at this time, and not go into the detail of the proposed Act.

However, the overall intention is to give the government the legislative authority necessary to achieve its objectives in mental health, the objective being to develop first-rate community based services for the mentally ill with de-emphasis on the use of large central institutions, except in cases where that is the only way in Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 350

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-27 which the treatment can be provided. I think experience has shown that there are many ways and many occasions upon which treatment could have been provided in individual cases, in a less formal type of institution than Alberta has had up to the present time, and that in many cases the well being of individual patients would have been served much better by less of an emphasis or institutions to which the mental health programs in Alberta have been so closely oriented in the past. We will propose the utilization of allied health professionals to perform specific tasks.

We will attempt to attract to the province highly qualified workers in this field. It will be our desire to encourage the upgrading of skills among those who are currently employed in the system, and thus broaden the range of therapeutic expertise available to the patient. We hope also to achieve local involvement in planning. We will encourage the creation of regional councils and the relating of them to other planning groups in the field of health services. I suggest that an important adjustment that will be gone into in more detail later will be redefining the commital and detention procedures.

This would, we hope, clear the way for general hospitals to undertake the care of some involuntary patients, which group represents sometimes seriously ill people. Once again, experience has shown that the hospitals in some such cases would be more appropriate for patients than the existing institutions, particularly with reference to the comments that have had to be made over the past several years about overcrowding of the major institutions located at Edmonton and Ponoka.

There will be administrative changes in the Act in order to decentralize control, and in keeping with civil rights legislation, which will also be coming before the House, special attention will be paid to patients* rights and the assurance that these are respected, both in admission procedures and in visiting rights, and in the matter of communication by patients with people, members of their family and others outside the institutions. The appeal procedures in the previous Act, on the whole, were thought to be satisfactory and it is proposed that substantially the same procedures be carried forward.

Now, the new Act will not only achieve much in the sense of legislation, but it will be the stage for new programs. Programs as such, of course, wouldn't appear in the actual words of the Act; they will empower us to conceive and execute the best programs that can be devised. In programs we want to pay particular attention to the evolution of the present institutions to make them and keep them active in their communities, and co-ordinate them with services that are being provided locally in other areas of health care.

That brings with it the assumption that the present institutions would continue to operate and would be reorganized to fit in with the recommendations of the Blair report, and so far as can be foreseen at the present time, it would be our intention to operate them on that continuing basis. I suppose Mr. Speaker, I should clear up something that is referred to from time to time. Every once in a while we hear hon. gentlemen opposite remarking upon the fact that we have been here now with the responsibility of office for several months, and, by golly, there are some things we haven't done yet.

And this always amuses me a little bit. I didn't hear the interjection of the hon. member from Calgary Mountain View, but I'm glad to see that he has now returned to his seat and I'll be glad to fill him in on the important points Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 351

8-28 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 that I have covered up to this time, to the extent of his ability to absorb it. Mr. Speaker, we were saying that the

interpretation of 'now' is all very well, and I've made my own reference to 'now' and to 'then'.

There are a lot of things, though, that we didn't say that we would do now, and it's these items that hon. gentlemen opposite occasionally refer to and say "what are you waiting for?" I think all should know that our commitment in our platform in regard to mental health was a five year commitment -- and this is something that should be clearly understood -- on the basis that work would be started on it at once, which has been done, and because of the enormous amount of work that would have to be done thereafter to continue the development over a period of years.

I think we're entitled to have it understood that these commitments will take some time to fulfil, and that no commitment was ever made to fulfil them in a lesser period in respect to implementing the provisions of the Blair report. No undertaking has been made to fulfil them in a period of less than five years, and that program is being rapidly developed at this time. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have already made known to the manpower resources we have in the system our proposals for certain development in respect to the health manpower available for the field of mental health in Alberta, and their involvement in it.

This is a current matter which is being discussed between officials and the professional staffs througout the province, or their representatives. I won't make any remark on that now, except to say that it is going on at the present time; we're looking for ways that will improve our recruitment and that will result in a more qualified staff at a level which is equitable in regard to remuneration of them, and to provide ways in which they can, on a continuous basis, upgrade their abilities to serve in the field that they've chosen without penalty.

If this goes the way that I think hon. members would like to see it in regard to reorganization of the service, they will not be penalized because they are in the public service instead of private practice, and we will assure that institutions are giving the people who require their services in Alberta the very, very best of treatment available. Now, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to go on with a few remarks in regard to the handicapped program.

We were, when we took office, inundated with mail and telephone calls from people who were experiencing, in many cases, personal tragedies of their own, directly related to severely handicapped children in their homes, autistic children, hypersensitive children, ones who had required a highly specialized degree of care throughout some period of their young lives and had not been able to receive it at all. When we investigated the situation we were shocked at the lack of concern of the former government in regard to this situation and the needs of the retarded.

We were told of a waiting list for admittance of retarded children to the Alberta School Hospital in Red Deer that numbered over 600 -- 300 of them being classed as emergency cases. I suggest that it was inexcusable that the situation had been allowed to continue for several years. My own estimate of the plans that were in progress at the time we came into office was that, if carried out, the plans to construct new facilities would be up to two years from the time that we came to office last fall before a large attack could be made on that waiting list.

Therefore, rather than use the long-term plan which had been inherited, we felt an immediate program was necessary and instituted one whereby 200 beds would be made available to retarded children during the spring of this year, using the renovated facilities of the old Misericordia Hospital to handle almost one half of the 200 beds. I am pleased to be able to say to the House that, as at the end of February, the progress in the changeover of the Misericordia Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 352

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-29 facilities in all except the first floor, where it is 50 per cent ready, was from 78 to 95 per cent ready on all floors to go ahead. So, we are still looking forward to the installation of equipment within a matter of a few days and the transfer of patients early next month. In addition, Mr. Speaker, 50 additional admissions are possible at the Red Deer School Hospital, and the preliminary work in that respect, including patient selection, has been almost completed.

This, once again, was a short-term program which we thought would be advisable and will, I am sure, obtain the general approval of those who are involved with it as soon as it is operational. This is the conversion of existing space at Red Deer which was not being utilized at all and yet was suitable for the purpose. We hope to develop up to seven group homes located in various communities in the province and this will provide for the balance of up to 200 that I mentioned in my figures.

I think the House will see that in a space of a few short months being able to have two of the 300 emergency cases allowed for is indeed a very successful program and one that we are very proud of indeed. There will be further developments in regard to decentralized residential care for children who are able to get along in that type of accommodation as opposed to the institutional accommodation. Mr.

Speaker, in placing a priority on the need for development of services for handicapped children generally -- and here I make no specific reference to the neurologically handicapped, I refer to all handicapped children -- the government is aware of the recognition achieved by programs of the Glenrose Hospital in Edmonton for treatment and education of multiple-handicapped children. Although from time to time representations are made, some adjustment should be made in the program content and administration of that institution.

I think it would be wrong not to say that it has had some outstanding successes in the way in which it has carried on its work. Therefore, without duplicating the facility, but because of the fact that the Glenrose has tended to serve northern Alberta more than southern Alberta, we intend to pursue plans as soon as possible to extend diagnostic treatment services for multiple-handicapped children to southern Alberta, and as the program in that respect is developed I will make more information available to the House. In respect to sheltered workshops, new policy initiatives have been established.

Previous methods of funding were haphazard and sporadic. In many cases, no government funds were being provided for this important service. Services to the handicapped being a priority, much thought has been given, as I've mentioned, to the children, and moving into the area of sheltered workshops allows us to give consideration, also, to more adult patients who continue to require care because of their disabilities. A new policy is being developed at the present time for assisting in the support of sheltered workshops currently in existence or which may be planned in communities in various parts of the province.

These workshops provide an opportunity for handicapped persons who don't have the capacity for competitive employment, and enables them to work in a controlled setting and be productive to the best of their abilities. The new policies will assist local associations and agencies, primarily, in both planning and in support, to the extent that the government is able to do that in a financial way.

In establishing policy for sheltered workshops, we intend to emphasize community involvement in both planning and content of the program and especially, of course, in the administration of the actual program on a local basis. We will continue to support the work being done by existing rehabilitation agencies in providing services to mentally and physically handicapped persons who have some Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 353

8-30 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 capacity for self-support. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this new approach is once again consistent with the basis upon which we said to the people of Alberta during the last year or so that this important area should be approached and dealt with. Now, a few other matters, nr. Speaker.

I said last week that I might make some remarks about whether or not social assistance was a right or a privilege, and I ventured the opinion at that time that the black and white nature of the question might be such that was not capable of a precise answer, but is one that is more in the area of continuing discussion, debate and evolution. I think, to a large extent, the reason why I said the question was rather philosophical is that no great purpose will be served by nailing down hon. gentlemen opposite in respect to what their thoughts on it are, unless they choose to do so.

I certainly don't mind saying that my views on it are open for suggestion, and that the views of all members will always be borne in mind in consideration of this difficult matter. I think it would be fair to say, though, that it's well known that this particular area is legislated upon both in the federal and provincial fields and has been made the subject of federal-provincial agreements under the Canada systems Plan.

And in the sense that the province has the right to legislate in regard to property and civil rights, it also has the right to declare it to be a right instead of a privilege if it chooses to do so. The fact is that the present legislation has not been changed from that on the books during the term of office of the previous government. Although I'm not giving legal opinions this afternoon, my view of it, Mr. Speaker, is that it makes it a privilege and one with a sense of fairness that most people bring to a consideration of that subject.

No hardship results from stopping short, as I would do, in referring to it as anyone's right. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think I should say to my colleague the member from Edmonton Kingsway that I'm approaching a subject dear to his heart and in all sincerity I acknowledge the leadership that he has consistently shown over quite a period of time. In regard to public debate which he has encouraged with respect to community health and social development centres, I certainly have every admiration for his large store of knowledge on this subject.

As far as present policies are concerned they all have to be, of course, within limits of what can be achieved through the budget, and I acknowledge that the concept dealt with when most people think of a community health centre is one that has a lot of attention focused on it right now all across Canada. And my assurance to the House, I think, would be that certainly in Alberta we will be keeping in touch with all of these developing programs that point in that direction.

Now the term itself, I suggest, refers to delivery of care both primary and ambulatory care for individuals and families at the local community level. And I think this should be understood that the orientation to which I refer is that at the community level, whatever may be the size or definition of the community, the patient is looked upon as the focal point. He is the one to whom the service comes, and every attempt is made not to divide him into too many pieces in having various government agencies attempt to serve him without careful integration and careful planning of joint objectives.

If successful, it should promote rational and economic use of resources and effective involvement of all those who provide the services, and greater satisfaction to those who need the services. I mentioned that Dr. Paproski's work in this area has awakened much interest, which I welcome. And I further mention that I agree in principle, but this is an experimental development at the present time, and, in fairness, much more evidence is required as to the substantial cost savings which many proponents of this scheme across the country are claiming for it at the present time.

I suggest the approach to community health centre development should be both optimistic and cautious and that much thought is going to be Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 354

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-31 required, as well as perhaps experimentation, some of which is being conducted in various parts of the country at the present time. The Alberta Medical Association has submitted a brief in regard to community health services which I won't go into in detail at the present time, but I think it would be fair to say that one of their major concerns is to assure that the private sector of medical practice is not under attack as it is in some provinces as a result of the thinking that is taking place in Alberta in regard to community health services.

I have no hesitation, in existing circumstances, of providing whatever assurance is necessary in that regard, and have done so in dealing directly with representatives of the Alberta Medical Association. One major study which is well known and is still in progress in regard to this matter is the Hastings report, and we are keeping in touch both with the interim report that was published in recent months and the timetable for the publication of the final report which is expected later this year -- possibly as early as the month of June. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the reference which was made earlier in the House today with regard to the federal plans for family income security, perhaps deserves a comment to the effect that I think this initiative on the part of the federal government is interesting and it is also timely, and by that I don't mean only from their point of view, with reference to predictions that some people are inclined to make about the possibility of an election federally this year.

But we are very interested in the proposals they are making; we regard them as being tentative, but to a large extent innovative in their approach, and I personally have no doubt that if our studies of them can be completed within a reasonable time, I would be interested in providing the House with further information with regard to it before the end of this session, in order that as full an understanding as possible can be had of this new and rather complex approach of theirs. Mr. Speaker, I have reached the conclusion of my remarks.

I want to thank the House for their attention to me during this time, and I do want to say that, in respect to the government's program and the action that is going to be taken on the Speech from the Throne as the session goes on, I feel that this government is one that will act throughout with a deep sense of commitment to a very fine program as enunciated in the Speech from the Throne. I am perfectly willing to abide by the impression that the people of Alberta gain from the action we are taking and will take in respect to these matters, and I think, Mr.

Speaker, I can live with the criticism that ocasionally comes from across the floor. Thank you very much. MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, may I at the outset, add my congratulations to the hon. Speaker on his elevation to this high office, and at the same time say that the expressions already conveyed by previous speakers are much in harmony and full accord with my personal feelings. It is my hope and I pray that our good Lord will guide him and grant him strength and wisdom in the performance of his duties in this House and to the people of Alberta. Mr.

Speaker, as a new member of this Assembly, I was, of course, very interested in learning the procedures of the House. In fact, I recall that on the first day the important issue of oriental export was mentioned. I want it recorded, Mr. Speaker, that I'm not willing to go. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 355

8-32 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 Another observation, Mr. Speaker, is there were many quotes attributed to the elder statesman, Disraeli. I would like to add a quote attributed to the same author. I have also have a few quotes of the noble one, Confucius, but for today I think that Disraeli has the priority. Now, Mr. Disraeli, in answer to a question from a new member of the House, when asked, should I take the advantage of getting up and speaking to every issue that comes before the House? Mr.

Disraeli replied: "It is better for the House to wonder why you do not speak, than for it to wonder why you do." So, Mr. Speaker, I have more or less taken that to heart. I have waited for the first day in the second week to speak to the Speech from the Throne. Frankly, I am sincerely and deeply honoured to have this opportunity and responsibility of addressing the members of the Alberta Legislative Assembly as the first representative of the Calgary McCall constituency. My constituency takes in the extreme north east

section of the City of Calgary, and it is probably the fastest growing area in all the province. The new houses added to my constituency in the past five years, if placed alongside one another, would form a continous stretch of building lots from Calgary half way to Red Deer. My constituency supplies a large portion of the labour force of the entire city. Me have an extremely large number of small businesses in the constituency, many of them family owned establishments. The new Calgary airport extension will be in my riding. Several new freeways are in the planning stage for the Calgary McCall area.

Because of this expansion, Mr . Speaker, we are experiencing some severe growing pains. We are, naturally, pleased to suffer a certain degree of growing pains, but we look to the provincial government to recognize our problems and to offer some help in the areas that fall within provincial jurisdiction and responsibility. At the present time, for example, ten blocks in my riding, Memorial Drive, which forms a major east-west freeway in the City of Calgary, is left unfinished, mainly because of the lack of provincial contributions to this project.

This is, of course, causing a great deal of traffic congestion in the already bad situation in Forest Lawn, which forms a greater part of my constituency. Now, in the matter of ecology, Mr. Speaker, because the McCall constituency is located in the east end of Calgary, with the rivers flowing from the west to the east, we find that at certain times of the year our river water is polluted by the time it comes down to our

section of the city. Most of our winds, Chinook or otherwise, also come from the west and even the most gentle western breeze wafts a combination of some unusual and peculiar odours. These orginate from places like the oil refinery, stockyards, fertilizer plants, rendering plants, and of course at election time, from political forums, and other places where some restrictive pollution control would be in order. There are even a couple of hotels in the area that emit odours not normally associated with the more urbane watering holes in the city.

In short, because of the growing pains and industrialization in my area, we are experiencing numerous difficulties and inconveniences. The most urgent are; street congestion, water pollution, air pollution, and underdeveloped recreational areas for our fast growing community. I earnestly solicit the provincial government to assist us in solving the problems before they become major obstacles in the future expansion of our area. If I may, Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to direct some of my comments to provincial matters, rather than constituency matters.

While one is naturally inclined to attack the opposing side, I believe that most of our members and most certainly the public have become tired of listening to the conservatives blame the Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 356

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-33 Social Creditors and the Social Creditors blaming the Conservatives and the NDP blaming everyone in sight for the bad state of affairs of our government. Mr. Speaker, may I suggest that we get down to the business of our province. Let us not only seek Conservative answers or Social Credit answers but let us be sure that we seek the right answers. Let us not try to fix the blame on the past, but let us accept our responsibilities for the future and for the people of this province. At this time, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to make mention of my reactions to the Speech from the Throne. Perhaps it is because of the fact that I am a new member in the Assembly, or perhaps it's because I expected a little more. But the fact is, the Speech from the Throne left a lot to be desired. Quite frankly I was unable to learn anything from it. Any specific revelations, if indeed there were any, escape me. A multitude of items were mentioned in the speech, but there was nothing to indicate what actions might be taken for the people of Alberta.

I was unable, for instance, to determine if the government had in mind anything that really dealt with the bread and butter issues. As a political document, the only thing that can be said for it was that it was an exercise in ineffectual projection, and an unqualified masterpiece of ambiguity. May I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this Speech from the Throne was a real disappointment to the people of Alberta. Surely our government must realize that the public is capable of digesting a document with a few more specifics.

The speech could at least accord us an acknowledgment of a modicum of intelligence and a capacity for discernment. I trust, Mr. Speaker, that this speech was not indicative of what the future proposals might contain or how they are to be presented in the future. To me the speech was memorable in that it reminded me of a bikini, that what it conceals is more vital than what it reveals. There is no indication, in the speech, of whether the government intends to stradle the fence on the right or on the left of the political spectrum. We do not know if we are to have more free enterprise or socialism.

There is always, of course, the possibility that the speech does represent the sum total of the government's thinking, in which case we can only look forward to riding in a ship of state that does not know where it is headed. Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge that the Throne Speech sounded good on the surface. It was saturated with Mom and apple-pie niceties, but there was little, or no, bread and butter. I see nothing but generalities when it comes to definite programs to provide work for seasonal unemployment. Only two sentences were devoted to this important problem out of the twelve-page document.

There were, of course, a small morsel for the aged, a few crumbs for the children, and a bare cupboard for the people who pay the bills. I am particularly concerned about the government's obvious avoidance of mentioning the words 'sales tax'. I am aware of the statement that says a sales tax will not be instituted in 1972 or 1973, but I would like some assurance from the hon. Premier that a sales tax will not be pressed upon this province during the life of his government. I am more than a little concerned at paragraph 6 on Page 5 of the Throne Speech.

This is in reference to the Cabinet Committee on Metropolitan Affairs. A committee consisting of only six members of the Executive Council would seem to be rather restricted in scope. Surely of the many members representing the urban areas, the government could amplify a more thorough cross-section of ideas and opinions if this committee was more representative of all the cities in the province. I am sure you will agree that there are more cities Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 357

8-34 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 in this province than just the two which are experiencing special problems relating to urban growth and development. There is also the marked absence of the mention of financial aid to our cities. Surely something must be done to give them a wider and more permanent means of providing for their financial needs. A strong policy of financial help and guidance should be an item of high priority. We all know that there are some services which are better administered at the local level.

Therefore the municipality should have the authority and the financial resources to carry out these services in accordance with their ability to administer such responsibility. Provincial legislation should be designed to provide the statutory authority necessary to allow for this, and at the same time ensure an orderly development of local government administration. We must never allow a repetition of the fiasco of a few months ago when the municipalities didn't know where they stood in relation to financial aid from the province.

With this kind of uncertainty, they would have to employ pressure groups, whose sole purpose would be to come, hat in hand, to the provincial government begging for funds. They could wonder then, is it $38 million or more or less, or is it $42 million less or more? We must give them a more permanent arrangement of understanding.

Still on this issue, because of the heavy concentration of the population in the urban centres, the province should, I believe, be the first to recognize the need and advantages of sharing certain autonomies, benefits, and responsibilities with the municipalities, inasmuch as a substantial share of the provincial revenue is collected from, by, or through municipalities.

It seems only logical, as well as astute, for the government of Alberta to revise its program in the field of provincial municipal fiscal relations, especially if a revised plan could produce a more acceptable relationship and more revenues accruing to the municipalities. Mr. Speaker, I would like to deal briefly with other matters that I suggest should receive high priority. On the important question of housing, I strongly suggest that the government allow the Alberta Housing Corporation to remove the freeze from the direct mortgage lending field.

The present freeze affects those people who do not qualify for conventional loans from regular lending institutions simply because they happen to be in the lower income bracket. It has never been the policy of the previous government, and I trust it will not be the policy of this government, to discriminate against people of lower income. We must be particularly aware that we do not penalize them in the matter of essentials. Mr. Speaker, on the question of homeowners' tax discounts, for the past number of years homeowners in this province have enjoyed a modest, but welcome, direct tax refund.

I feel that any other form of grant or rebate would be most unfair. For example, if the rebate or grant was given directly to the municipalities, it could and probably would be used as general revenue, or used to supply some areas with amenities while not giving proper regard to other areas in the district. I was very much disturbed, therefore, Mr. Speaker, in November of last year when one of the ministers of this government suggested that the discount or grant would likely be discontinued under the new proposal for a new tax scheme.

Only by a direct tax grant to the property owner is money available for proposals for disposal as the homeowner sees fit. Mr. Speaker, a word on the care of the aged. I am particularly interested in the care of the aged and the aged ill. We need a new and modern concept of care for these people. We must not merely get the old folks from under our feet, but we must give them the care and the dignity that they are entitled to.

In addition to looking after their physical ills, we must give them a measure of social life, with the ultimate aim of giving them all the peace and security that befits a great province such as we have. These people have Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 358

March 13, 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 8-35 contributed much towards the progress and the development of this province which we so much enjoy. We cannot give them less than the best care available. Finally, Mr. Speaker, on the question of the Alberta Bill of Rights. While I do not intend to criticize the Bill of Rights, what I question, however, is the matter of priority. I find it rather hard to believe that with all the problems facing this government, and there are many, what most concerns them is the fear of discrimination.

I firmly believe that by such emphasis the government is creating a problem where there wasn't one before. It is true, we hear of isolated cases of discrimination against one race or another. It is not, however, and never has been, the serious problem that our government is trying to lead us into believing. Just have a look around this floor, Mr. Speaker. We see names here such as Topolnisky, Yurko, Diachuk, Paproski, Bouvier and Smith; that sounds like the starting lineup of the Stampeders. In addition to these names we have some more Anglo-Saxon names such as Ho Lem and Lougheed.

It is not in my estimation a sign of discrimination. In fact, I think it is truly a tribute to the people of this province. I am the first to admit that a person who is determined to find discrimination in this province can probably do so. This kind of discrimination however, is not going to be legislated out of existence no matter what our law says.

We have so many people claiming unfair treatment today that we have certain groups claiming rights such as rights for criminals, even murderers, rights for the accused, rights for students, rights for women, and there is even now a group seeking to establish rights for husbands. To some I don't think that is way out. We will always find these kinds of people with us. It is a matter of attitudes. For this kind of discrimination, I submit it is education and not legislation that is needed.

I submit that this education must be nurtured in our homes, in our churches, in our market places, and in our community that we are all a part of. Mr. Speaker, in summation, I am proud to be representing the Calgary McCall constituency and I am proud to be representing the Social Credit Party, but even more than that, I am chiefly proud to be representing the people of Alberta. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I wish to leave the House with this thought.

I wish to assure the present government that I will always support good legislation provided that they can convince me that it is really good -- at times, I may be hard to convince -- but only, Mr. Speaker, if this type of legislation is designed for the overall good of the people of Alberta. MR. APPLEBY: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate very much this opportunity to participate in the Speech from the Throne Debate in the first session of the 17th Alberta Legislature.

I know that the Speaker of this House has received a great many good wishes and congratulations, and I might have some concern that the weight of all these accolades might be somewhat of a physical strain upon him, but as I have watched his performance here during the first few days of the session, and noticed his wisdom, his understanding, his patience and his tolerance, I can certainly understand that there will be no such need for concern, and I want to add my own felicitations to those he has already received.

Briefly, I would like to congratulate all members of this House on their election and particularly those who have been chosen to the Cabinet of this government, and I express my appreciation for the co- operative and understanding attitude they have taken to the members of the government. I feel very fortunate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in my Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 359

8-36 ALBERTA HANSARD March 13th 1972 seat mates in this House, because I have yourself here on my left, well informed in the procedures of government, who gives me advice on all matters of procedure, and on my right I have the most recent addition to this House, the member from Stettler, Mr. Graham Harle, who has, by his victory in the Stettler by-election indicated the confidence of the people of Alberta in this government. Mr. Speaker, as I enter this House each day and take my seat and see my name on my desk, I sometimes have some reflections as to how this all came about.

I know that there have been times over the last few years when I have thought perhaps I would like to offer myself as a candidate for the Legislature. But these thoughts never became very clear or very firm. They never crystalized until I met our Premier, the hon. Peter Lougheed.

And I was impressed, not only with his vision and his imaginative ideas, but also with the fact that he had the ability and the energy and the desire to see these ideas and the ideas of others who were attracted to him put into practical realization in the many new directions that this government intends to follow in the Province of Alberta. And I have no doubt, Mr. Speaker, that this very same reason is the major one why you find all the other members on this side of the government today. Mr.

Speaker, I have certainly been very thrilled to hear the numerous speeches from all parts of the House, because this has opened up a kaleidoscopic type of vista of the whole province for me, and it has proved very enlightening and very educational. I commend the members of the House and all parties who have made their contributions. Naturally, I would like to pay a special commendation to the Mover and the Seconder of the Speech from the Throne, the hon. Member from Whitecourt and the hon. Member for Calgary McKnight.

As one other member said as we left the Assembly that afternoon, they gave us a pretty hard act to follow. And I heartily agree. I note that the Leader of the Opposition is not present today, and I know this is unavoidably so, but I trust that his colleagues will carry to him the message that I certainly appreciate the positive attitude he expressed in his speech and the indication he has given since that he intends to co-operate in the expediency of the conduct of business in this House.

However, he made one remark in his speech which caused me to go and check the results from the last election, and I found that the percentages show that the Progressive Conservative Party had received 46.4 per cent of the vote and the Social Credit Party had received 41 per cent of the vote. Perhaps I misinterpreted his remarks, but he said that we were the government, even though they got the most votes, and that is quite significant to me, because I think that the percentages as they are in the book are very meaningful.

Another impression that I thought maybe he wished to create was that this was a rural oriented type of government. I know the hon. Minister of Environment, Mr. Yurko, has already commented on this, and I would also like to say that although I represent a rural constituency myself, I certainly have a clear understanding of problems in the urban centres, and I know that this government is giving serious and dedicated consideration to these many complex and involved p