March 23, 2007 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 40

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit Strangers.

This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome to the public gallery, Mr. Mark

Small, who is a sealer with the North East Sealers Co-op; and we have from The

Carino Group of Companies Mr. Knut Nygaard and Mr. John Kearley.

Welcome to our House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley; the hon. the Member for the

District of Bonavista South; the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District of Placentia & St. Mary's;

the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile; and the hon. the

Member for the District of Ferryland.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to recognize two

constituents in my district, Norman and Pearl Moss of Deer Lake, who recently

celebrated a huge milestone in their lives, their sixtieth wedding anniversary.

Mr. and Mrs. Moss were married on March 11, 1947, at the old Salvation Army

Church in Deer Lake. During their married life they have had six children, five

of whom live on the Island and are within ten minutes of their hometown.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. and Mrs. Moss have been blessed with sixteen grandchildren

and over twenty great-grandchildren. Mr. Moss has worked all his life as a

carpenter and woodsman for Bowaters. He retired in 1993, and since that time

both Mr. and Mrs. Moss have spent their time quietly enjoying family and

friends.

It is inspiring to hear stories like Mr. and Mrs. Moss' - they are an

example of the beautiful importance of family and family ties that can be seen

across our great Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join with me in extending congratulations

to Norman and Pearl Moss, on their sixtieth wedding anniversary. May they have

many more happy years of togetherness.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Sir William

F. Coaker Heritage Foundation on its recent receipt of a Manning Award from the

Historic Sites Association of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Manning Award for Excellence in the Public Presentation of Historic

Places was presented in a ceremony last week to Mr. Bruce Sweetland, Chairman of

the Coaker Foundation, for work at the Fishermen's Advocate Building in Port

Union.

Mr. Speaker, we all recognize the importance of preserving our Province's

culture and heritage, and the work being done by local volunteer groups, like

the Coaker Foundation, is absolutely tremendous. It is wonderful to see such

hard work and dedication rewarded in this way. As Edith Samson, Executive

Coordinator of the Foundation, said, it lets them know their efforts are

appreciated and it inspires them to continue doing this important work.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very prestigious award for the Coaker Foundation and,

indeed, the whole local area. I encourage all hon. members to go see the

restoration work being done in Port Union and I ask you to join me in

congratulating the Coaker Foundation on receiving the Manning Award.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the members of the Red Bay Volunteer Fire

Brigade who have been honoured for twenty and twenty-five years of dedicated

service to their volunteer fire brigade and their community.

Mr. Speaker, the work and dedication of these volunteer firefighters over the

years shows a tremendous commitment to their community and highlights the

character of individuals who volunteer to be a part of such an operation in

their communities.

Volunteer firefighters deserve to be recognized, not only by their

communities but by the Province as well because of the work that they do to

ensure the safety of the residents of their communities. They often place their

lives on the line for the protection of people in a moment's notice, at times

not knowing the situation or the circumstance that they may have to deal with.

I am proud, Mr. Speaker, as the MHA, to recognize the following individuals

for their service of dedication as volunteer firefighters in the Town of Red

Bay. Mr. Speaker, I would like to add, that back a few weeks ago I did present

to them certificates on behalf of the Minister of Municipal Affairs for their

service as well. They are: Phil Bridle, Eric Layden, Leslie John Layden, Mervin

Layden, Eric Paul, Ian Stone; and for twenty-five years of service: Les Belben,

Frank Brown, Reg Moores, Bruce Moores, Clarence Moores, Edmund Ryan and Ron

Ryan.

Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues in the House of Assembly today to join me in

congratulating the members of the Red Bay Volunteer Fire Brigade and, in doing

so, recognizing the volunteer firefighters all throughout our Province and

thanking them for their dedication and their tremendous service to communities

and to residents in our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to pay tribute to the Genesis

Employment Corporation of Placentia, which is a community-based supported

employment agency serving the Placentia and Cape Shore area.

Supported employment provides job search assistance, placement and on-the-job

training for individuals with developmental disabilities.

On Tuesday, February 27, Genesis held their annual Employer and Supporter

Recognition Night in partnership with the Argentia Area Chamber of Commerce.

This marked the tenth anniversary of Genesis in Placentia, and during that time

the corporation has generated over 150,000 hours of employment.

This year, the employment award was won by the Town of Placentia. This award

honours the employer who has made an outstanding contribution to the increased

employment of individuals with developmental disabilities in the Placentia-Cape

Shore area.

I was pleased to be able to attend the ceremony, along with my colleague, the

hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating the board, the staff,

partners and employers of the Genesis Employment Corporation, for ten years of

contributing to the meaningful lives of these individuals.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Gateway Status of Women's Council on their

twenty-fifth anniversary, which they celebrated in conjunction with their annual

Bread and Roses Dinner recently. The council's goal is to improve the quality

of life for women and, in turn, improve the quality of life for their families

and local communities.

Mr. Speaker, they had a packed house. There were 164 women in attendance,

from all walks of life. Three women from Port aux Basques told personal stories

explaining their life struggles as women living in rural Newfoundland, and how

the women's centre helped them tackle the challenges. The stories touched

everyone in the house.

Mr. Speaker, the message from nearly everyone who stood at the podium that

evening during their Bread and Roses Dinner was: Many battles have been won, but

there is still a lot of work to do.

The energy, the enthusiasm, and the dedication in that group is as strong now

as it was when they started twenty-five years ago.

The women's centre, with their office in Port aux Basques, has been an

important and necessary force in the social, family, economic and political life

in Southwestern Newfoundland for the past twenty-five years.

I ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating the Gateway

Status of Women's Council on their twenty-fifth anniversary. We wish them

well, and many more years of success.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate the Goulds Lions Club on their

thirtieth anniversary celebrated at their charter night which I attended on

Saturday, March 17.

The contribution this group has made to their community and to the lives of

children is outstanding. The club has been involved in fundraising initiatives,

both big and small, over the past thirty years, including $25,000 for the Goulds

Fire Department, $105,000 to the Goulds arena, $30,000 to Goulds schools, and

the list goes on and on for financial contributions in their area. Their

generosity and hard work has been extended to seniors' projects, St. John

Ambulance, food banks and Christmas hampers.

The Lions have also been heavily involved with youth groups, in particular

the Lion Max Simms Memorial Camp that provides a summer camp experience for kids

with physical disability. Over the past thirty years, the club has contributed

unselfishly over $500,000 to different projects in the region.

Mr. Speaker, it is groups like the Goulds Lions Club who continue to build

and sustain the fabric of our communities through the values of sharing, caring,

and providing a helping hand.

It is indeed an honour and privilege to have such an organization as part of

the District of Ferryland, and I once again congratulate them on the thirtieth

anniversary and the outstanding contribution they make in the lives of so many.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, sealing has been an important economic activity

in Newfoundland and Labrador for hundreds of years. It continues to be

critically important for many fish harvesters, plant workers and coastal

communities.

During the last year, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has been

stepping up our communications activity in relation to the sealing industry to

address the misinformation about the industry that is put in the public domain

by international animal rights organizations.

In Budget 2006, we as a government recognized the need to correct this

misinformation, and $100,000 was dedicated towards the implementation of a

sealing industry communications strategy. I am pleased to announce today, Mr.

Speaker, as part of that initiative, government is launching a sealing industry

communications Web site.

Mr. Speaker, it is critical for the public to have easy access to factual

information on the sealing industry. The groups that are spreading the

misinformation have a strong Web presence, and in order to effectively counter

this information, or this misinformation, it is important that government have a

strong presence as well. The Web site, which was launched this morning, will

enable people who wish to be better informed on the sealing industry to have

easy access to that information.

As part of our efforts, our government has partnered with industry, including

some of the representatives who are present in the gallery here today. We have

met with European Parliamentarians, journalists and embassy staff members. We

have also participated in meetings in Boston and Los Angeles with federal

government and industry representatives.

Last week I was in Ottawa to lead a provincial delegation to the

counter-demonstration referred to as "Up the Anti" event on Parliament

Hill. Over 120 individuals from across the country joined together to ensure

that the truth was told.

My colleague, the hon. Trevor Taylor, the Minister of Innovation, Trade and

Rural Development, in co-operation with the federal Department of Foreign

Affairs and International Trade, will be part of a delegation of individuals to

Europe beginning Sunday, March 25. The delegation will meet again with European

Parliamentarians and media regarding the seal harvest. The delegation will be

travelling to Brussels, London, Berlin and The Hague.

Mr. Speaker, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we take a great deal of

pride in this industry which is humane, sustainable, extremely well managed and

economically viable. As a government, we will continue to promote and defend it

to all those who need to be educated and informed on the true facts of this very

important industry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the Minister of Fisheries for an advance copy of his

statement.

I would also like to welcome Mr. Small and representatives of Carino to the

gallery today, all of whom I know and have worked closely with as Minister of

Fisheries for the Province and as Executive Assistant to a previous Minister of

Fisheries. I commend them on the work that they have done for the sealing

industry and I would also like to commend the initiatives that the provincial

government has undertaken in the last couple of years to promote, enhance and

maintain our sealing fishery.

As a private citizen, as Minister of Fisheries in the past and as an MHA

today, I certainly have always supported the sealing industry. In fact, my

father sailed to the ice on the last voyage that the Kyle made back in

the mid-1960s, Mr. Speaker, and I remember that well.

There is one initiative in this report today that I cannot support and that

is this delegation that is being led by, I would assume, His Excellency, Loyola

Sullivan, to the EU this weekend. The reason for that comes about as a result of

a telephone call that I received just minutes before coming to the House of

Assembly today from a Mr. Eldred Woodford of Herring Neck, which is in my

district, and Eldred happens to be the President of the Canadian Sealers

Association, the association, which I might add, Mr. Speaker, that Mr. Small was

president of and did yeoman service. It is the Canadian Sealers Association that

kept the seal fishery alive after the whitecoat fishery was stopped back in the

1970s. Without that association we would not be talking about seals today.

Unfortunately, Mr. Woodford called to inform me that a couple of short weeks

ago he was called by External Affairs or Foreign Affairs, as the President of

the Canadian Sealers Association, and invited to go on this junket. He had his

passport prepared and everything was a go until Wednesday afternoon, when he -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. REID: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MR. REID: Wednesday, of this week, he was called by an individual in

External Affairs in Ottawa and was told that he could not go on this junket

because there was no room for him. The President of the Canadian Sealers

Association, not just of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, the Canadian

Sealers Association, an individual who was dully elected president of that

association, and he is finding it appalling. He thinks it is deliberate and he

called it nothing short of a slap in the face to the Sealers Association of this

country, and especially of Newfoundland and Labrador. He thinks it is a

deliberate attempt at keeping the Sealers Association away from this event. I

call on the minister and the Premier today to interfere with his excellency, Mr.

Sullivan, and Minister Hearn to have that solved so that the President of the

Canadian Sealers Association can take

part in this, because if he is not there

the rest of it will be nothing but a sham and a joke.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, with leave.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, just for a second or so, with the concurrence

of my colleagues opposite. I only became aware as I was en route to the House to

make a statement that this matter had in fact surfaced. It had surfaced in

another form, in terms of the Province and its official delegation, and we spent

the morning getting that straightened away, and the minister will now be

accompanied by another person from the Province.

Let me say this, if the President of the Canadian Sealers Association is

available to be part of this very important mission, the Province will pay for

his transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, here!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to inform my hon. colleagues that

government has approved $36.2 million in provincial funding for municipal

capital works for 2007-2008.

Capital Works Programs will assist municipalities develop municipal

infrastructure and will support continued growth and development of communities

throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. In partnership with federal and municipal

counterparts, the total value of capital works commitments for 2007-2008 is

$77.4 million.

This commitment will allow municipalities an earlier start to the

construction process and provide additional time for projects to be completed.

Municipal capital works programming supports infrastructure programs for

residents of the Province and, in addition, Province-wide, will provide up to

64,000 person weeks of direct or indirect and spinoff employment.

The capital works commitment includes the Municipal Capital Works Program,

Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund, the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund,

Gas Tax Program, and the Multi-Year Capital Works Program, all of which are

administered by the Department of Municipal Affairs.

Historically, the majority of funding has been directed towards water and

sewer infrastructure. In light of increasing demands, government will begin to

broaden investments in municipal infrastructure to address investment deficits

in the areas of recreation, buildings and fire equipment. An increased emphasis

will be placed on infrastructure where investments are required and can be

supported by a business case analysis which rationalizes the need and the

long-term sustainability of the infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, we remain committed to working with municipalities to find

cost-effective solutions to address increasing infrastructure requirements for

municipalities across Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Department of Municipal Affairs is in the process of evaluating

applications for municipal capital works, and will make announcements for

specific projects in the near future.

Mr. Speaker, I will just add that I think there will be somewhere between

sixty and seventy new projects approved this year, in the very near future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

When I looked at it, I saw the amount that was there, $77.4 million for this

year, and I thought it might be a little low. I went back and checked, and in

2004 there was about $100 million. I think there might have been more than that

in 2005-2006, but I would have to do some more checking on that.

Again, to have early starts, like has been done sometimes, is very

advantageous for the municipalities. It gives them time to prepare and call

tenders and have the work done. That has to be lauded, as I said, as we have

been doing for some time.

It is good to see the broadening, as the minister talked about, other than

infrastructure, into such areas as he has already announced, in recreation,

buildings and fire equipment; however, if the amount of money is not there to do

it all, I am just wondering which one of these particular projects, or part of

the municipal funding, will have to do with less.

I am a little concerned about the last sentence in paragraph four. Probably,

in talking with the minister a little later on, he might be able to explain it

in more detail for me. This is what it says: An increased emphasis will be

placed on infrastructure where investments are required and can be supported by

a business case analysis which rationalizes the need and the long-term

sustainability of the infrastructure.

It causes me concern, because I am not sure if the small rural communities

will be able to take advantage of all of this and if, rather, in a sense, they

might be -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. LANGDON: Just a minute?

MR. SPEAKER: The member asks for leave.

Has leave been granted?

MR. LANGDON: Just a minute?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MR. LANGDON: Okay, thank you.

- if they will be eliminated from participating in these programs.

I do not think for one moment that it was a matter of deliberate exclusion

rather than to include, and I am sure the minister, as I said, can probably

explain that to us a little later as to what that particular trend would be.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform hon. colleagues about an event, sponsored

and organized by the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development,

designed to help develop our provincial craft industry.

Mr. Speaker, the craft industry provides employment to more than 2,000 people

in Newfoundland and Labrador, many in rural areas, and is worth an estimated $38

million with the potential to grow substantially.

To support the growth of the craft industry, INTRD holds an annual trade show

and conference for local craft producers. This weekend, March 24 and March 25,

we will host the fourteenth Annul Provincial Craft Trade Show and Marketing

Conference at the Holiday Inn in St. John's.

The show will feature thirty-nine exhibitors of high quality Newfoundland and

Labrador craft, and attract over 100 wholesale buyers from craft and gift shops

from across the Province who will place orders for the coming season.

Through this event, craft producers have a dedicated venue through which to

sell their products to wholesale buyers. We also use this event as an

opportunity to provide the industry with professional development seminars. As

with previous years, awards for the Best Booth and the Heather Stone Award for

Best New Product will be presented.

Mr. Speaker, the quality products made by Newfoundland and Labrador craft

producers are being recognized outside of this Province as well. Last month, two

local companies and a College of the North Atlantic student won awards at the

Atlantic Craft Trade Show in Halifax.

Scraps of Beachside won the Award in Excellence in Product Design. Abbyshot

Clothiers Limited of Mount Pearl won the Award in Excellence for Outstanding

Exporter. Gillian Slaney, a College of the North Atlantic student in St. John's,

won the Heather Stone Emerging Artist Award.

Mr. Speaker, 2007 has been named the Year of the Craft in Canada. This

government recognizes the value of the craft industry to this Province and is

proud to support its growth. I congratulate all Newfoundland and Labrador craft

producers on their quality, creativity and achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement today.

Of course, I too support the craft industry and I certainly support this

initiative which was an initiative of a Liberal Administration. It is another

opportunity to showcase our craft industry, and anyone who knows and is familiar

with the craft industry in our Province would have to talk about the variety and

the quality of products being produced in Newfoundland and Labrador today.

I would also like to mention, they have the Stone award because I knew

Heather and I think to have that award established to remember Heather and her

contribution to the craft sector in our Province was certainly the right thing

to do. In fact, I was delighted when I heard about it.

This is again an excellent opportunity to showcase what we have before us in

our Province and the many people who work in the craft industry. As the minister

has said, when you talk about an estimated $38 million, with a tremendous

potential for growth, then anybody would have to support this particular

industry.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House we questioned the negative impact that

the Premier's confrontational approach with Ottawa will have on this Province.

Today we want to explore the negative impact that the Premier's

confrontational approach will have on the business sector in our Province. Since

taking office this Premier and his government have called ExxonMobil a rouge

partner; the CEO of Abitibi Consolidated incompetent and should be replaced by

the board of directors; NOIA, an industry group that represents hundreds of

local businesses in this Province, he called them ANNOYA'; and has told

countless other companies, including the one wanting to do wind power

development in Lower Churchill, to go fly a kite.

I ask the Premier: When are you planning to tone down your confrontational

tone and rhetoric and do something to prevent the hundreds and thousands of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians from leaving this Province on a daily basis to

find employment elsewhere?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I do not think I said go fly a kite, but I

am pretty sure I said all the rest of it and I certainly stand by it.

Mr. Speaker, we make no apologizes for taking tough stands. When the federal

government, the Liberal government, the Martin government, basically said to us

take it or leave it, a colleague of the hon. people opposite, we said, no, we

are not going to just take it. We are going to stand and we are going to stand

tall and we are going to fight.

I would think that the hon. member opposite is assuming that we should take a

company like ExonMobil, who made $40 billion last year, which is about four

times the total debt of our entire Province - they paid their CEO, if I remember

correctly, about $500 million, about half a billion dollars. They were asking

us, as a government, to give them a half billion dollars in concessions so that

they could then pay that to one person, who is a CEO of the company.

I would like to know from the hon. member opposite where he stands. Do you

want us to give it away or do you want us to rollover? I stand for no giveaways.

Where do you stand?

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, it is like I said earlier, it is time for the

Premier to give up his foolishness and his rhetoric and get down to working a

deal.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: I am not talking about giving anything away, Mr. Speaker. What

I am talking about is making a deal; a deal that is good for this Province so

that we do not see, everyday, people leaving here to find work elsewhere.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, the Premier does not hold, sir, a monopoly on

patriotism to this Province, I say. Now it has been almost a year since this

Premier launched into his Incredible Hulk-like attack against the oil companies

that ended with the Hebron-Ben Nevis field shelved. Instead of trying to

negotiate, the Premier walked away, leaving any chance of this project going

ahead delayed indeterminately. Meanwhile, the Province is expected to be last in

the country in economic growth next year, the real estate market is in decline

and there are businesses in this general area, as well as all over the Province,

who are suffering as a result of no deal.

I ask the Premier: When are you going to get back to the table and at least

talk to the partners in this oil company, or in this oil field?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman opposite has certainly

changed his tune when it comes to talking tough. Back in April, 2003, in Hansard,

he said: For the Opposition - referring to us - to be sitting across the floor

and trying to give the impression that we have to somehow try and get along with

these people in Ottawa after getting kicked in the teeth so many times in the

last fifty years, I think it is time for that to stop.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Well, we stopped it. We did exactly what you suggested.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: And now, Mr. Speaker, we have a new, big buddy of big

oil and it is the hon. Leader of the Opposition. He is now standing up to

support these companies who not only want a half billion dollars in tax credits,

but they go to the C-NOPB and they do not provide us with enough information so

that we can make a proper decision. Would he like us to grant Hibernia South

without having adequate information? Would he like us to give the half billion

dollars to the oil companies? Would he like us to give the gas tax relief that

they were asking? The rest of us in the Province are paying because of increased

oil prices, as everybody in the country is, but ExxonMobil and their partners

want a tax break on gas and oil, which they produce. That is what they asked us

for and we said no deal to that. But, now you are the new big buddy of big oil.

Good luck to you!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, if the issue was not so serious it would be

laughable. The little boy from Carbonear is the friend of big oil. Talking about

reminding people of what they say, Mr. Speaker, when the Premier sat here three

short years ago he criticized those opposite for their confrontational approach

to negotiations and said that this has to stop, that he was the great negotiator

and that he was going to solve all these problems through his negotiating

abilities. If you are talking about who says what -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. Leader of the Opposition. I ask all members

for their co-operation.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: If you are talking about who supports whom in this House of

Assembly, I would ask the Premier to get out his little brochure he was passing

out one year ago when he was out campaigning for Stephen Harper, the fellow who

just stuck the knife in his back this week, I say to the Premier.

Mr. Premier, in today's Telegram -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Could I have some order, Mr. Speaker, please?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. I ask him to

put his question immediately.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, in today's Telegram a businessperson

involved in the oil and gas industry states, in reference to the Premier,

"As far as everyone is concerned globally, we're not open for business.

No one wants to deal with him. All he does is fight. The business community here

is sick of it."

I ask the Premier: Are you concerned that members of the local business

community believe that you are scaring away private sector investment because of

your confrontational approach to negotiations?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the approach that we took with the Martin

government got us $2 billion. We know what that got us.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: We used that money to fund up our public sector

pensions. That is why the hon. minister stood proudly, or sat proudly, at a news

conference just recently with the heads of all the unions and they acknowledged

the tremendous contribution that we have made.

As for the business person that was in the paper today, if you read that

article, that person is an unnamed person. That person is a coward, who will not

put his or her name forward in the paper. Why won't that person name

themselves? I don't stand up here in this House and answer allegations from

people who don't have the guts to put their name in a (inaudible) paper.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I guess the Premier would like to sue him as well,

would you?

I say to the Premier, if a Liberal Prime Minister did not give you the

Atlantic Accord, what could you stand and slap yourself on the back about today,

I say to the Premier? Nothing.

Mr. Speaker, exploration in our offshore is also taking a nose-dive. In each

year since 2003, when this government was elected, exploration has dropped. In

2003, over $672 million was committed. In 2004, $71 million was committed. In

2005, $39 million was committed. Last year, $31 million was committed in new

exploration bids.

I ask the Premier: Are you concerned that these figures have dropped each

year under your leadership, and that there is a direct correlation between what

is happening there and your confrontational approach?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the reality of the fact is that, from the

original reserves that Hibernia had, which I think was a little over 500 million

barrels, they are now at 1.2 billion. The C-NOPB estimate is, that could be

conservative and, in fact, that could be 1.9 billion, if I remember correctly,

so that would be about four times the original estimates.

Husky and White Rose have just recently announced that they have another

reservoir, that they basically doubled their reserves. Petro Canada have

indicated that their reserves have increased.

As well, the situation which is referred to in that article, which is the Erik

Raude or Erik Rhode , whatever the proper name of that particular rig

is, we have been notified by ExxonMobil that there are actually mechanical and

technical difficulties with that rig. There are actually problems that they are

having in actually drilling out there.

So, you can read into it whatever you want, and the articles in The

Telegram can imply whatever they want, but the reality is that the company

is actually saying to us that, in fact, the delay is due to problems that are

occurring with the rig. So, that is the truth of the matter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, the business people of the community are all wrong; The

Telegram cannot get it right. Everybody is wrong expect you, I say to the

Premier.

Mr. Speaker, ExxonMobil and Chevron have announced that exploration wells

scheduled to be drilled in the Orphan Basin will not be moving forward this

year. Many local service and supply companies are worried about the impact that

this will have on their businesses, as the Erik Raude was scheduled to do

drilling.

In addition, another drill vessel, the Henry Goodridge , will be

leaving the offshore out here late this summer and heading for the Gulf of

Mexico, leaving a void for many companies and individuals who provided goods and

services to those rigs.

I ask the Premier: How many jobs will be lost as a result of these rigs

leaving, and what impact will that have on the local economy of this area?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman opposite is obviously

not following world trends. Rigs are in huge demand - that is the reality of it

- it is very difficult to get rigs. The rigs that are to be obtained are now in

a deep water environment and they are learning as they go, so it is a learning

experience. Rigs are being booked when they can get them, and as they need them,

but it comes back to, where is he going with this?

Is he going back to the Hebron development? Is that what it is all about? So,

he is basically going to say that we should roll over on Hebron, we should give

it away; because the hon. House Leader was on the radio last year and in one

breath he was saying we should fight, we should dig in, no more giveaways. On

the other hand he was saying we should sit down, we should negotiate, we should

get the deal done, because that will create jobs and that will put more money

and that will pour more profits in the pockets of the oil companies.

Well, we do not stand for that. Our concern is not ExxonMobil, it is not

Chevron, and not Norske Hydro.

MR. SWEENEY: Obviously.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: It is not, obviously not, hon. member. Obviously not,

the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, definitely not. Our concern is the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: It comes down not to their profits, because they are

making exorbitant profits. It comes down to our return for our people, what goes

in their pockets, so that we can build hospitals and schools and we can pay off

pension funds, and we can do all the right things that are necessary for this

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will tell the Premier what it is all about. It is about keeping thousands

of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in the Province so we do not have to witness

the 9,000 who were lined up on Kenmount Road before Christmas. That is what it

is all about!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: I say to the Premier: When are you going to come down off your

soapbox and do something for the youth and the grandmothers and the grandfathers

and the fathers and the mothers in this Province, so that we do not have to see

the exodus of people like we have been watching under your watch?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Let's talk about that, Mr. Speaker. Let's talk

about some of the things that we are doing.

What I have been doing, every time I can, is trying to read as many of the

papers and watch as much of the media as I can, just to track exactly what is

doing and what people are saying.

In The Business Post , a quote from The Business Post , January

29, 2007, "Mining and exploration companies need favourable political and

economic climates in which to operate and Newfoundland and Labrador's is among

the best. Few governments support the industry the way ours does.... I don't

think you could be in a better environment."

The fur industry, the Advertiser , January 18, 2007, "...fur is

quickly emerging as an economic plus for the province.... Mr. Wiseman says with

the growth in the industry, there are

tremendous opportunities' to start fur farms."

The nor'wester , "The first shipment of gold ore has arrived

from Greenland...".

We are bringing ore in!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: We are not shipping it out; we are bringing it in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: The Business Post , again, "The value to our

economy in 2006 from aquaculture was over $100 million.... We have more than

1,000 people in coastal areas of this province dependent upon aquaculture."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: The Coaster , February 20, 2007, "...the

Coast of Bays region in southern Newfoundland is considered by many to be on the

brink of being a leading center of rural revitalization. It's a very exciting

time..." they say.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: It is an exciting time; you just don't like it!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright- L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, it is easy to come in here and read headlines from

papers across the Province that talk a different story as well about

out-migration and job loss and unemployment, and people living below the poverty

line, but my questions today are for the Minister of Natural Resources.

This provincial government's effort to negotiate with the federal

government is evident in the federal government's goose egg for Newfoundland

and Labrador in the recent budget, but I say that government's record in

negotiating with the private sector groups is not hot either.

The joint partnership between the Labrador Metis Nation and Ventus Energy is

prepared to invest $2.5 billion in revenue - more than those equivalent to the

Atlantic Accord - and give the Province a 25 per cent equity share in the

Highland wind project in Labrador that will generate 1,000 megawatts of power.

I ask the minister today: Why have she and the Premier not been able to take

the time to even sit down and hear this case for energy development in Labrador,

and why are you not encouraging this investment by the Metis Energy Corporation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the proposal that is being suggested by the

hon. member, the critic for Natural Resources, is part and parcel of an energy

plan that is being presently worked on by this government. A plan, by the way,

Mr. Speaker, which requires -

MR. REID: (Inaudible) four years.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Yes, it is four years, but I will remind -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I will remind the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, when I sat

in Opposition, it was in 1998 when the government of the day - which was

comprised mostly of members opposite - in fact stated that they were ready to

start and commence the working of an energy plan. Well, Mr. Speaker, five years

later, in 2003, when members opposite were defeated, we in this Province were

still waiting for an energy plan.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, it is an important issue. We will put the

due diligence into this work. It is important work on behalf of the people in

the Province. We hope to be in the position to announce to the public in the

spring of this year our complete and diverse energy plan on behalf of all

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. However, Mr. Speaker, if it takes a while

longer, that will be the case.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Now, Mr. Speaker, I listened to the minister and it blows me

away, and I will tell you why.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS JONES: He stands up and he says that you cannot entertain an energy

project in Labrador in the absence of an energy plan. Well, I would like to

remind the minister that there are private sector companies investing in wind

power and environmental assessments being conducted on the Island of

Newfoundland today in the absence of an energy plan. Why the double standard for

Labrador, Minister? Why are you not allowing the Metis Energy Corporation and

Ventus Energy to move forward with an environment assessment on this particular

wind power project? You know it does not grant approval or disapproval by

allowing that to happen. So, why aren't you doing it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: As just indicated, Mr. Speaker, this proposal that is

being presented by the member opposite will be considered in its entirety as

part and parcel of an energy plan, which is being put together, which is being

worked on by this government, as we speak, and in due course the appropriate

announcement will be made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we already know that there are two standards here.

There are projects given the environmental assessment and the go ahead for wind

power on the Island, but this company has not been granted the same in Labrador.

In fact, this company has been doing wind data on the Smallwood Reservoir on the

Height of Land wind project for the past year. They are prepared to share that

data with government.

I have to ask, Minister: Why are you not communicating with this company? Why

is it that government went in there and put up their own wind towers to conduct

their own data? Are your relations and negotiating tactics with private

companies so bad in this Province that you cannot even sit down and talk about a

project of this magnitude with this kind of capital investment in Newfoundland

and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the proposal as suggested and the points

being brought forward have validity. They have validity on their own. This

particular proposal and this concept must be considered in the entirety of an

energy plan which is part and parcel of an energy policy for this government. As

we speak, it is being formulated. It is proposed that this government, through

the Premier - and presumably my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources,

will make the appropriate announcement in due course and we will then see

whether or not the points and the validity that is made by the hon. member will,

in fact, be included.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, in the government's response on wind development

in the Province, they talked about small wind and big wind. Well, we know where

the big wind is in Labrador and it is the Member for Lake Melville, I say to

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question on the Lower Churchill

Development. Two weeks ago the Prime Minister announced nearly $600 million for

the Province of Ontario, a large portion of which will be used as investment in

the construction of an east-west electrical transmission interconnect with

Manitoba, allowing Ontario to move forward with clean, hydro electric power.

I would like to ask: Why were there no funds forthcoming for the development

of Newfoundland and Labrador's clean energy hydro project on the Churchill

River in the recent Federal Budget?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: If I can, Mr. Speaker, I have been involved in

discussions at that level that evolved through the Council of the Federation,

and I am Chairman of that energy committee as well, which is looking at national

energy grids right across the country.

There seems to be an appetite in Canada to entertain an energy grid from

Manitoba to Ontario. I have always maintained that an east-west energy grid is

St. John's to the other coast. Obviously they are not listening, and of course

the reason is because Quebec are opposing it. Quebec are adamantly opposing an

energy grid that comes on past Quebec. That is where the stop is, that is where

the block is, and that is something - not the Bloc Qu b cois.

That is where the blockade is. That is something we are dealing with, that is

something that we are wrestling with, and basically we have to convince the rest

of the country that it is very, very important that we have a complete

transmission grid because our power is as good as anybody's else. It is our

goal to either deliver it to the rest of Canada, either through Quebec into

Ontario, either through Quebec down to New Brunswick, or otherwise we are going

to go east and we are going to go south and we are going to go into New

Brunswick and we are taking that power to the States. That is where we are

taking it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest as the Premier tried to

take credit for initiatives happening in this Province which the government had

nothing to do with. Absolutely nothing!

What is truly ironic is that when he was Leader of the Opposition he did not

hesitate to refer to any out-migration as a result of government mismanagement.

Now that he is Premier he is singing a different tune.

Well, Premier, how do you explain your mismanagement to the people of Bird

Cove and Tilt Cove where the population has dropped by 50 per cent; to the

people of Whiteway, where it has dropped by 32 per cent; Fermeuse, 28 per cent;

St. Shotts, 24 per cent, all under your watch?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest if the people opposite, when they were in

government, had made the appropriate investments in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador, and put the appropriate programs in place when we had about $4 billion

come down from the federal government in the wake of the collapse of the cod

fishery, if they had made the appropriate investments at that time, Mr. Speaker,

the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly in the rural areas, might

be a little more diversified than it currently is, and the people who have left

those communities over the past fifteen years, might not, Mr. Speaker, have had

to go.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: The difference, Mr. Speaker, that would have been since we

took over, because we have established a Regional Sectorial Diversification

Fund, we have established an SME Fund, we have, Mr. Speaker, established a

Commercialization Fund through our Innovation Strategy, and we have, Mr.

Speaker, expanded the Business and Market Development Program in the Department

of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. We have invested, Mr. Speaker, tens

of millions of dollars over the course of the last three years in

infrastructure, in programs and in businesses in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador, and that is what is going to turn it around, that approach, not the

approach that they had for fifteen years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, what is so funny here is how they continue to

blame the previous Administration after four years in office; fours years and

you still cannot get it right.

In my District of Grand Bank, there has been a population decline in most of

the twenty communities. To name a few: Point May, 19 per cent; Frenchman's

Cove, 15 per cent; St. Lawrence, 13 per cent; Lord's Cove, 11 per cent;

Fortune and Point au Gaul, 10 per cent; Grand Bank, Lamaline and Lawn, 9 per

cent. Three years ago the Premier appointed a rural secretariat which, to date,

has spent $5 million.

I ask the Premier: What has the rural secretariat done with that $5 million

to help stem out-migration from rural Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

While she is on the topic of spending money, she might want to mention that

we committed $10 million to Cooke Aquaculture to extend the aquaculture base on

the Connaigre Peninsula.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: She might also want to mention the fact that we have

somewhere around $12 million, I believe it is, tied up in a loan guarantee

program with the Barry Group to expand the aquaculture operation on the South

Coast.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: She might also want to talk about the thousands of dollars

that we put into dynamic air shelters in her own district, in the community of

Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: She might also want to talk about the $250,000 that I

announced in August to support the establishment of the Seafarers Memorial in

her district, in the community of Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: She might want to look at the resolution of a longstanding

dispute between the government and Wood Product Industries Ltd., when a sawmill

burned down while they were in government in the spring of 2003 that they could

not get resolved, which we resolved last week that will see the establishment of

a new sawmill in Roddickton with private sector funds. If that does not happen,

the permit will come back to government to be issued to somebody else.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, air dynamic shelters was an initiative that was

put in place by the previous government, by the Liberal Administration.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Cooke Aquaculture, I am told, was actually something that came

to be in this Province as a result of meetings that took place in Minister Hearn's

office, not in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, $15 million was allocated under a federal-provincial agreement

to fund infrastructure in rural communities in this Province. I was shocked when

I learned that nearly half of that money was spent to construct a sports

provincial training centre in St. John's. Now the last time I checked, St.

John's was hardly a rural community.

On the other hand, there is an arena in Fortune, a rural regional facility,

which will not be able to operate this year without a one-time grant from the

government because of the dire circumstances that Fortune finds itself in. We

all know what that is. In response to their request for help, the town was told

the government did not have appropriate financial resources.

I ask the Premier: Given the situation in Fortune, will you give the town the

financial help it has requested so the arena can operate for the benefit of the

people in the area?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have had some very, very good dealings with the Town of

Fortune. I want to read to you a letter that was written to me on December 18,

2006, from the Concerned Citizens Committee in Fortune.

"Dear Hon. Premier: Recently, I was informed of a Statement made in the

House by M.H.A. Judy Foote wherein she accused you of not meeting with the

members of the Concerned Citizens Committee in August 2006.

Please be assured that M.H.A. Foote was not speaking on behalf of the

Concerned Citizens Committee..."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: "...we have had no dealings with M.H.A. Foote

since our first meeting with you in March of 2005.

The members of our Committee are very appreciative of your support and the

support received from Minister Rideout, Minister Dunderdale, and Minister

Taylor, and their respective Assistant Deputy Ministers.

On behalf of all the fish plant workers of Fortune and surrounding areas, we

wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New

Year."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have one of the greatest hydro development projects in the

country. What I heard today from the Premier is that we have no footing from the

federal government on guaranteed investments in this project. In the meantime,

here we have Ontario getting federal government investments and the green light

to go ahead with energy project initiatives.

I have to ask the Premier today: Will you table in the House of Assembly any

proposals, if there are any, submitted to the federal government by the Province

asking for the Guaranteed Investment into the Lower Churchill Development

Project?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, in all fairness to the hon. member

opposite, she probably does not understand that we are at a stage now whereby we

are not in a position to do that yet. There is a letter that went to the Prime

Minister. There is a letter of commitment from the Prime Minister, which is

probably not worth the paper it is written on. Having said that, once we get to

a point where we get to the pre-engineering - we are now in the process of doing

pre-engineering, which will be getting ready for the feed for the project

itself. We are looking at project sanction at 2009, and when we are in a

position to finalize exactly what the project is all about and where it is

going, and we have done all the necessary work, then we would be in a position

to put something to the federal government. Right now, it is not appropriate to

do it. We do not have the information that would be necessary in order to put a

proper package together, and if it was not done properly they would just send it

back and that would be their excuse for getting out of it. We are not going to

let them off the hook that easily.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Time for oral questions has expired.

Presenting reports by standing and select committees.

Tabling of documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand today to table the Consumer

Protection Fund for Prepaid Funeral Services 2005-2006 Annual Activity Letter.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of motions.

Answers to questions for which notice has been given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Before I read the prayer of this petition I want to thank the Government

House Leader with regards to Bill 72, where we went through first and second

reading and committee level and he withheld the third reading until we received

this petition. So, I want to thank him for that.

The petition reads, Mr. Speaker:

To the hon. House of Assembly in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled:

WHEREAS the Electoral Boundaries Commission has made its report to the

provincial government concerning the electoral boundaries and are to be in place

for the 2007 provincial election; and

WHEREAS this report has been accepted by government and in the spring session

of the House of Assembly, the provisions of this report will be presented to the

Legislature to be enacted into law; and

WHEREAS this report will see the municipality of Spaniard's Bay divided

into two electoral districts, Harbour Grace-Carbonear (all areas east of the

centerline of Brown's Road, Church Hill, Conception Bay Highway commencing at

Church Hill to Brazil's Hill, Crane's Road) and everything west of that

aforementioned said line in the District of Port de Grave; and

WHEREAS the residents of Spaniard's Bay and Tilton have come together into

one united community;

THEREFORE we, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge

government to take immediate action to amend the Electoral Boundaries report so

the municipality of Spaniard's Bay and our 2,540 residents be placed in one

single electoral district.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I thank the minister for the opportunity, and I

reference back to the comments I made in second reading with regard to the

concerns being looked at when changes are made, that they be made with the

wishes of the people rather than just for numbers' sake.

We know the Commission went around the Province and they had hearings and

they came to a unanimous decision, Mr. Speaker, but it also should be noted -

which was recorded in the report - that if at all possible they would not split

communities, if that could be done.

Having said that, we know that the Commission has, I guess, done their best,

but throughout the Province there have been divisions within communities, and

those changes make a greater impact on the smaller communities than in the

larger centres.

I present this petition, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the residents of the Town

of Spaniard's Bay, to object to the dividing line going through their

community. It is not an issue, Mr. Speaker, of who represents their community;

let me assure you of that. The only thing they are saying is, they would like to

see their community placed in one district.

Having said that, I want to say it has been a pleasure dealing with the

community and the municipality of Spaniard's Bay. I look forward to working

with the portion, I guess, that will be in the District of Port de Grave. I am

looking forward to working hand in hand with my fellow colleague from the

Carbonear-Harbour Grace district.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the residents, I present this petition so that

their objections can be registered in the hon. House of Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present this petition on behalf of the residents of

Conception Bay North, primarily from the Spaniard's Bay and Tilton area.

The petition, as I said last night, and again I thank the minister of his

leeway in stopping Bill 72 last night at second reading, the petition basically

asks that - and I will condense it because my colleague from Port de Grave just

read out the prayer of the petition - the petition itself basically asks for the

community to stay intact. They are not asking for any particular representation

or to be part of any particular district. I have to give them full credit for

that.

The council and the committee in that community are legitimately concerned

about splitting their community down the middle. As well as that, I have to say,

the neighbouring community of Upper Island Cove, Mayor George Adams has voiced

his concern by letter to the chair of the committee and members of the committee

regarding his community, Upper Island Cove, being split. Some of these residents

here may be also from Upper Island Cove, as I look at some of the names here.

In any event - again I have to say this and reiterate - these people are not

asking for any particular district to be in. They are not asking for any

particular member. They are asking that their community, a small community in

rural Newfoundland, a community of 2,500 people, that they be kept together and

not split into two electoral districts.

It is a totally different situation than we are dealing with here in the City

of St. John's, where people arbitrarily draw lines down through streets,

Kenmount Road, Topsail Road and so on, bifurcation roads and whatever else comes

in there.

Mr. Speaker, it is not an unreasonable request for these people to have their

needs met and to have their concerns heard. That is why today I am here in this

particular House at this particular time with this petition, before we get to

the final vote this afternoon, to have these people's concerns heard and

listened to; and maybe, for some reason or another, maybe government will listen

and make the necessary changes.

As I said last night, plus or minus 10 per cent is an arbitrary figure. It

can be just as easily plus or minus 15 per cent, or plus or minus 20 per cent,

when we are talking about keeping the fabric and the geography of rural

Newfoundland together.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for you time, and I present this petition on behalf of

the residents in that area.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I present this petition on behalf of the people of

Pasadena. Actually, it is in their words and I would like to read it as they put

it here. It reads:

WHEREAS the Electoral Boundaries Commission has made its report on electoral

boundaries for the October 2007 provincial election; and

WHEREAS this report will see the Town of Pasadena split between the electoral

districts of Humber East and Humber Valley; and

WHEREAS Pasadena was formed from the amalgamation of the three communities of

Midland, Pasadena and South Brook; and

WHEREAS the division of Pasadena between two electoral districts will be

detrimental to the process of community building which has been going on in

Pasadena for the past 30+ years; and

WHEREAS the electoral map was prepared based solely upon the basis of

population numbers without any regard for community; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has the authority to vary the Report of the

Electoral Boundaries Commission;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to vary the Report of the Electoral Boundaries Commission to

have the Town of Pasadena remain entirely within the District of Humber East or,

alternatively, entirely within the District of Humber Valley, but not split

between the two; and

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A point of order.

In the course of Question Period today, the Premier made reference to a

letter that he had received -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognized the hon. the Opposition House Leader, who is rising on a

point of order.

We have to finish with petitions. I do believe there are more petitions.

The Chair is recognizing the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present this particular petition from the people from

Pasadena. I think it is a companion petition of the Member for Humber Valley,

who just presented.

For the members opposite, for their information, of course, the Member for

Humber East has asked me to present this petition, which is normal, because

ministers do not present petitions in this House, and have not since I have been

here.

I am delighted that the minister has asked me. The Member for Humber East has

requested that I present this petition on his behalf, and I am glad to do so

today. It was requested. I will not read out all of the Whereases, as the Member

for Humber Valley has already done that today, but I do understand where they

are coming from.

I would like to say, in my discussions that I have had with my colleague and

friend, the Member for Humber East, in fact he has made representation on this

particular issue and on these particular concerns. He has raised those concerns.

As this debate has continued since last night and yesterday, a number of

points have been made about the concerns throughout the Province whenever there

are changes to boundaries. With the geography of this Province, the shifting in

populations and so on, a number of those issues have been raised. The member has

raised those issues and made representation to the Commission.

As the Member for Lewisporte said when we started this debate, tinkering, I

guess, gerrymandering - and different words were used yesterday - would be a

mistake, we believe. That is why, although concerns have been raised by

particular districts, especially with Pasadena, I understand the concerns

Pasadena has raised, the same as my colleagues have just raised about Spaniard's

Bay, when you split a community.

I guess in the bigger communities like St. John's and so on, where we have,

I think, seven or eight seats, Corner Brook with three, I believe, Stephenville

has a split, there has always been a concern especially when there are smaller

communities. I can certainly understand that in discussions I have had with the

member, and he has been concerned about it, because Pasadena is a growing

community, moving in the right direction. As a matter of fact, I have worked

with the member a number of times, as Minister of Tourism, on concerns with the

particular community of Pasadena.

Mr. Speaker, the member was asked to present this petition and he cannot, as

minister today. He asked me to do it on his behalf, and I am doing it on behalf

of the communities. I understand that 50 per cent of this petition was presented

by the Member for Humber Valley, and we respect that. The concerns have been

raised; they have been addressed in this House of Assembly.

I can assure the people, on behalf of the member and my friend, who I have

been a neighbouring colleague of for a long time, and I know the community of

Pasadena, that certainly the member will continue to represent that community

whether it be half or full, and that the concerns of those particular residents

in that particular part of the district will be addressed. As a matter fact, Mr.

Speaker, some people would argue that now you have two members to represent

their views and bring their concerns through to the House of Assembly.

With a representative, like the member has been for the last number of years

for Pasadena, I am sure that it will be strengthened and better again.

Certainly, Mr. Speaker, he wanted to make sure that the petition was presented

on his behalf, and I am pleased to do so.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition on behalf of the residents - I will say

one thing, Mr. Speaker, it would be a sad day in this House of Assembly when

this member for the Bay of Islands would not present a petition on behalf of the

people in his own district. It would be a sad day if I would not do that, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: It is on behalf of the residents of the North Shore concerning

the highway conditions. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the conditions on the

highway of the North Shore are in a deplorable condition. We had three former

ministers, the now Minister of Fisheries who would not meet with the residents,

who did nothing with the roads; we have the Minister of Innovation, Trade and

Rural Development who would not meet with the residents and did nothing with the

roads; and we have this current minister who goes out and takes a little joyride

and says, oh, yes, I know all about the roads, but refuses to meet with anybody.

Mr. Speaker, it is a sad day in the Bay of Islands when I learned today - and

I am going to get the information on it because I am not sure. I think it was

the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, when the Member for

Humber East would not present a petition here today on behalf of his residents,

gets $450,000 to do a bypass road up in - where is it? Massey Drive. I will tell

you why it is up in Massey Drive, Mr. Speaker. The confusion, as he knows, is

because the road that he built for Massey Drive is a part of the City of Corner

Brook. What is going to happen now is, it is not even a Massey Drive road now.

You think that it is a Massey Drive road, but I was told today by department

officials that the road is going to remain with the Department of Transportation

and Works. It is not even Massey Drive.

MR. T. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Minister of Finance.

MR. T. MARSHALL: As the proud Member for Humber East, I would like to

correct the Opposition Member for the Bay of Islands, who, once again, has his

facts incorrect. The road in Massey Drive is a government road. It is owned by

the Department of Transportation and Works, and the hon. the minister is right

there. Part of the road happens to be in the Town of Massey Drive, part of the

road happens to be in the City of Corner Brook. It is a government road built

for the benefit of the people of Massey Drive, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the member has one minute-and-twelve seconds left to present his

petition.

MR. JOYCE: The people of Pasadena can thank me. At least we know he can

stand on some other part of the district, not his own up in Pasadena.

You talk about a waste of money! It was not the current minister, the former

minister got up in this House of Assembly and said, this road is going to be

turned over to the Town of Massey Drive. I have Hansard and I will produce that.

That just shows how the minister here is taking money, absolutely for no benefit

to the transportation system in this Province, while the people down in the Bay

of Islands are suffering. Somebody here made statements in this House of

Assembly and out in the public, that was going to be turned over. They did it in

such haste to get it done, they did not even realize that the road they were

putting through from Massey Drive is a part of the City of Corner Brook land and

they cannot turn it over. The City of Corner Brook refuses to turn the land

over.

That is just the abuse, and the people of the North Shore expect the same

type of treatment. Stop playing petty politics with people's lives and safety

and do some work in the Bay of Islands. If the Minister of Transportation and

Works wants to keep on smirking over there, go down and tell the people who went

off the road. You can smirk as much as you like, but go down and tell the

people, go down and tell the ambulance drivers who cannot get up the road. Go

and do it, instead of smirking.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Williams Harbour

in my district. Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams Harbour are asking the

government, and petitioning them, to invest money into constructing a highway

into their community.

The community of Williams Harbour is on an island and separated from the

mainland by a small tickle with very shallow water. There is absolutely no

reason why that tickle could not be bridged and a road built into this

particular community. In fact, because of the change in temperatures in the

north, and especially in Labrador in the last number of years, freeze-up and

break-up have not been for extended periods of time. In fact, Mr. Speaker, last

season the ice conditions in that area did not even permit people to travel off

the island by snowmobile during the winter. So, it is having a dramatic impact

upon the lives of the people in this particular community.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I realize that the previous government was prepared to

build this road, to make the investment, and a very small investment of less

then $6 million, to ensure that this community was connected by road, just as we

did to connect the community of Pinsent Arm and St. Lewis and many other

communities there.

Mr. Speaker, the government opposite chose to do an economic assessment and

decided that because it was no longer economically viable to build roads into

small communities like this, that people should go without crucial

transportation infrastructure. I totally disagree with that, because if you look

around Newfoundland and Labrador today, in many of the bays and coves and

harbours that are connected by road to the Trans-Canada Highway, it was not

economically feasible to do most of them. Even today, it may not be economically

feasible to resurface a lot of those same roads, which is currently being done.

Mr. Speaker, I want to appeal to the government on behalf of these residents,

and especially to the Minister of Transportation who is from Labrador, who is

familiar with this community, who knows how important it would be to the people

of this community to have a highway connection. I have to say to him as the

minister for Labrador, that he should, within his power, do the right thing and

make the money available to this community to have a highway. When he was a

member of the government, an MHA, before he became a minister he supported this

highway going into Williams Harbour. He wanted them to have a highway connection

and wanted all the communities in that area to have one. Now he is the minister.

Now he is in a position to do something about it. I ask him to consider, on

behalf of the residents of Williams Harbour, the people whom he knows very well

and knows their situation, to make the money available to build this road. We

are talking less than $6 million to connect the community to the Trans-Labrador

Highway, a community that has to go right now by snow machine or by boat to

access medical services, to access postal services, to access fuel supply.

Mr. Speaker, these are crucial everyday services that people in this Province

enjoy. I can only ask that the Premier, the minister and the government, for God's

sake, have a heart, show some compassion and put the money in to build the

infrastructure for this community of Williams Harbour.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, I do believe is rising on a point of

order.

MR. PARSONS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.

During Question Period today the Premier made reference to a letter from, I

believe it was a concerned citizens group, and he read the letter actually here

in the House of Assembly in answer to a question.

I would make reference to Beauchesne , page 151, ruling 495 that a

minister - and, of course, the Premier is certainly the first minister. "A

Minister is not at liberty to read or quote from a dispatch or other state paper

not before the House without being prepared to lay it on the Table."

I would assume the Premier, having referenced here and made it a public

document by doing so, would be prepared to table that letter here in the House.

I would ask him to do so as soon he can.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, speaking briefly to the point of order

raised by the Opposition House Leader.

The letter that the Premier quoted from is a public document. I know I have

seen it. I had a copy of it back some months ago, I believe. We will ensure that

the document will be made available to the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Just a point of clarification again, Mr. Speaker.

I would appreciate, if we could, from the Government House Leader, some

indication as to when. We hope that the tabling of the letter does not follow

many of the procedures here whereby, for example, answers to questions posed. I

would assume - the Premier made reference to it today, so he has it readily

available, and I would think there is no problem having it tabled here in this

afternoon's sitting.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, just to that point of order, I do not see any

questions on the Order Paper under the heading of Answers to Questions for which

Notice has been Given. If there are, we will deal with them; but the point of

the point of order, we will get that quickly, today if possible, certainly by

Monday, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not have any level of comfort that it will be done forthwith or

immediately. I would ask the Chair, what is the ruling in this situation? It is

my understanding that, when you do it, you do not take your willy-nilly old time

when you do it. My understanding is that you have it, you referred to it in the

House, and you do it.

I would appreciate the Chair ruling, and I would submit that is the correct

ruling, to order that it be done now.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: I will just have one final word, if I might, Sir. The

Premier is not here. I am making an undertaking, as Government House Leader, to

get the document. When I get the document, Mr. Speaker, it will be tabled.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair appreciates the exchange that has occurred between the House

leadership. The Opposition House Leader appropriately quotes 495 of Beauchesne ,

and there are some requirements there.

We will take the word of the hon. the Government House Leader, as we must and

we should, that he will act expeditiously. The Chair will have consultations, if

necessary, but not necessarily do so, because we assume that this will be

handled quite quickly.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to move to Order 1, third reading of Bill 72,

An Act To Amend

The House Of Assembly Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

It is moved and seconded that Bill 72,

An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly

Act, be now read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion that Bill 72,

An Act To

Amend The House Of Assembly Act, be now read a third time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly Act. (Bill 72)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 72,

An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly Act, has now

been read a third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be

as on the Order Paper.

MR. REID: We call Division, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Division has been called.

MR. RIDEOUT: Just one second, Mr. Speaker. (Inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, one second. I am prepared to co-operate and

have Division after the fact - I am not hard to get along with - however, there

is a right way and a wrong way to do it, and the Opposition did not do it right.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know where the hon. Government House Leader was looking, and I

cannot help that, but I can attest to the fact, and I apologize if the Chair - I

cannot help it if the Chair was not looking, with all due respect, but, Mr.

Speaker, three people over here said Division. I was one of them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

In order to clarify matters, it is possible that the Chair did not hear or

see the members if they were rising; however, the standard practice is that we

would stand in our places, and three members would stand.

Without getting into a long dissertation, if it is the will of the House that

we have a standing vote, if we can have co-operation between both sides of the

House, then we can proceed with the standing vote.

Do we have the co-operation of the House?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Therefore, the Chair will rule that a Division has been

called.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion. The

motion is the third reading of Bill 72,

An Act To Amend The House of Assembly

Act.

All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

CLERK: Mr. Williams, Mr. Rideout, Mr. Ottenheimer, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Tom

Osborne, Mr. Hedderson, Mr. Shelley, Mr. Tom Marshall, Mr. Byrne, Mr. Wiseman,

Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Harding, Mr. Oram, Ms Burke, Mr. Skinner, Ms Whalen, Mr.

Jackman, Mr. Hickey, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. French, Mr. Denine, Mr. Young, Mr.

Forsey, Mr. Hunter, Mr. Hutchings, Ms Johnson, Mr. Ridgley, Mr. Collins, Mr.

Dinn, Mr. Cornect, Mr. Parsons, Mr. Butler, Mr. Barrett, Mr. Langdon, Ms Jones,

Ms Thistle, Mr. Sweeney.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Reid, Ms Foote, Mr. Ball, Mr. Joyce.

Mr. Speaker, ayes: 37, nays: 4.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I declare the motion carried.

In order to ensure that proper procedures have been followed we will now ask

the Clerk if he could read the title of the bill and I will do the concluding

statement at the end.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly Act. (Bill 72)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 72,

An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly Act, has now

been read a third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be

as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The House Of Assembly Act,"

read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill

72)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 1.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House resolve itself into a Committee

of the Whole to consider Interim Supply, Bill 71, and that I do now leave the

Chair.

MR. PARSONS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order has been called by the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A point of order. The Premier is back in the Chamber now and the Government

House Leader indicated that as soon as he had a chance to chat with the Premier

he would get that letter tabled.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I gave an undertaking. I have it in my hand. As

soon as I get a copy made it will be tabled.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The motion is that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to

consider the Supply motion, Bill 71, and that I do not leave the Chair.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The committee is ready to continue with debate on Bill 71,

An Act For The

Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain Expenses Of

The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending March 31, 2008 And For Other

Purposes Relating To The Public Service.

The House is ready to hear debate on Bill 71 and the resolution that

accompanies that bill.

The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I rise today to take a few moments to thank the people of

Ferryland district for the privilege they bestowed on me on February 8.

Mr. Chair, it was indeed an interesting decision to seek public office. My

wife and my two children went through the process of determining whether I would

offer myself for public office. On making that decision, the people of the

Ferryland district, my campaign workers, we embarked on a journey through a

nomination process and entered a successful by-election on February 8.

I want to take time to thank those individuals for their time, the volunteer

time and the effort they put into my election. I had people involved in my

campaign from Trepassey to Maddox Cove, Petty Harbour and all communities in

between. Those people gave of their time and effort and I am certainly very

appreciative of that.

Mr. Chair, I would also like to specifically mention my family, my wife,

Lynn, and my two children, Eric and Jane, who embarked on this journey with me

and I am certainly thankful to them. As well, my family. I was honoured

yesterday in the Speaker's Chambers to have my eighty-one-year-old mother here

to see me escorted into the House by the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: As well, my oldest sister. I am the youngest of six

children from the small community of Mobile on the Southern Shore. Growing up in

a small rural community, I learned the meaning of community, working closely

with people and working together in times of good and in times of not-so-good. I

think that will bode well for my experience as the member and here in the House

as well. As well, it instilled the values of working together, achieving results

and working as a team, which I think as well I bring to this position.

Mr. Chair, at this time, too, I would also like to thank my colleagues on

this side of the House who supported me in my nomination and in the by-election,

who gave me support and confidence to go forward. I would also like to

acknowledge those on the other side of the House who I met in the hallway, or

yesterday when they spoke and congratulated me. So, thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, Ferryland district, geographically, is a large district. It is

roughly 150 kilometres, parallel to the Atlantic ocean, mostly made up of rural

communities. It is steeped in history, culture, folklore and music. It is all

abundant. In actual fact, in the town of Mobile, where I am from, the Mobile

goat still lives,.

The district has a diverse economy, ranging from the fishing sector,

processing, harvesting, the tourism sector is huge, the service sector,

communications, manufacturing and small and larger business, just to name a few.

Mr. Chair, no doubt we have many challenges in many regions of my district.

The collapse of the inshore fishery in the early 1990's played havoc in the

lives of many in my district and in communities. It has forever changed the

make-up of rural Newfoundland as well as my district. As a rural community in

Newfoundland, the community leadership, the community involvement, and this

Williams' government has responded and are re-investing and committed to rural

Newfoundland. He is indeed demonstrating that rural Newfoundland is a priority

and it will be a priority for me and it will be a priority for the District of

Ferryland.

I will continue to pursue the needs of the district, which are much bigger,

including in the areas of road infrastructure, recreation facilities, tourism

investment and municipal infrastructure for our small communities, as well as

employment initiatives. Some of my district is doing well, others not so well,

but the process is starting and we are building together and we are improving.

A portion of my district is also part of the capital city. In this region,

through community leaders, they have grown and diversified and continue to

expand into a bustling region of activity and growth. Infrastructure, that area,

is important, water and sewer, recreation facilities, and they need to keep pace

with the growth, and that is a priority.

Mr. Chair, much has been accomplished since the Williams' government has

taken over and run this Province. This government has invested, in my district

and in rural Newfoundland, and is committed to infrastructure and demonstrating

the confidence in rural Newfoundland, that this government is there for them. I

am glad to be apart of that.

Mr. Chair, in the Ferryland District, over the past three and a half years,

the Capital Roads programs have begun and investment has started, and the

process of bringing our highways up to an appropriate standard has begun. This

further ensures our communities and builds confidence and a positive attitude

that we can build and it can be positive and have good things happen.

Also, infrastructure with this government: A new state of the art facility, a

high school, is being built in Mobile, further indication of the commitment to

rural Newfoundland. As well, in Portugal Cove South this government was involved

in the investment of a new

interpretation center which highlights historic sites

and archaeology activity in that region as well. There are a lot of good things

happening.

As well, we have continued support for the Colony of Avalon which last year

saw over 20,000 people pass through that site. Continuing the investment in

infrastructure in rural and municipal communities, in roads and recreation and

cultural ventures, still builds our community, and I am looking forward to

building it as a member of this government.

Mr. Chair, I would also like to thank my predecessor, Mr. Sullivan, on behalf

of the residents of Ferryland for his strong representation and commitment to

the district. He was able to accomplish much under the Williams' government

and I look forward to continuing that process in working with the Premier and

the members on this side of the House.

Mr. Chair, yesterday I felt extremely privileged to walk into this Chamber as

the Member for the District of Ferryland. As someone mentioned to me yesterday,

there are only forty-eight members at any time. If you go back through the

actual history of a particular district, there may not be many who had the

opportunity since Confederation to serve, so it is indeed a privilege and I do

see it as a noble profession.

Mr. Chair, I am delighted to be the Member for the District of Ferryland. I

am looking forward to working with my colleagues and I am looking forward to

working with the people of Ferryland District, and I would say a big thank you

to them.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to congratulate the Member for Ferryland on his

maiden speech, and there is no doubt about it, politics is a noble profession.

It takes dedication, no doubt about it, and his deliberation with his wife and

family was no doubt very important. Because there will be sacrifices that will

have to made as a family, and once the family unit, the father, mother and

children, buy into it then obviously it is important.

I think of my own parents who are both in their eighties. In political life

sometimes we take criticism, and they take it personally. You know, there is

nothing you can do with that. This past weekend we laid my mother-in-law to rest

back in Seal Cove. She, along with my wife's dad who passed away a few years

ago, were great supporters as well.

I remember the first time I ran back in 1989 when I ran for the Conservative

Party, and the Government House Leader was Premier at the time. I remember my

father-in-law saying to me - and Margaret, my wife was there as well - he said:

I had to talk to your mom last night, we have a big decision to make. We have

never voted Conservative before, it has always been Liberal. That has been their

tradition. He said, I said to your mom: What about if Oliver loses by one or two

votes? He was very serious about that and he said: Well, we have to support him,

he is our son-in-law. I would assume that for the first time in their lives they

did vote Conservative. I had the opportunity, along with the Government House

Leader, to be in our house, in my mom's house, and to have a meal with them up

in the district some time ago.

Anyway, I want to, as I said, congratulate the Member for Ferryland on his

speech.

Mr. Chairman, I say to all of the people, I guess, who watch - and there are

a number of people - in the House of Assembly sometimes there is a lot of

bantering that goes back and forth. Some of us are better at it than others.

Some of them are more vociferous than others, louder voices, and some of us just

relax and take it all in and probably others delight in it or whatever. When all

of that is done and the bantering is done and over with, the reality still sets

in that there are many, many problems that we have to face in this Province. I

am not being, in a sense, political or putting blame on somebody, but the thing

is this is the reality of it.

I think about a lady who phoned our office today and said: As a result of the

Lewisporte Wholesalers closing out in Lewisporte, Lewisporte Wholesalers would

not deliver their groceries to them as they had done in the past. They were

somewhat concerned about it. This is happening in many, many other communities,

smaller communities, I am sure, not only on the South Coast but other

communities as well. As a result, this lady said: You know, we are losing a lot

of people through out-migration. Basically, there are not many people left any

more. When we get freight come in from Sears, we do not have as many parcels, it

costs us more and then we have to pass that on to the people who are in the

community who are still remaining there. That is a real problem. That does not

dissipate, that does not go away, that is the reality that we have to face.

Whether we sit on the Opposition side of the House or the government side, it

does not change. I am sure the Member for Bonavista South who has been in this

House a long time understands and feels the same pressure that I would as a

member sitting in the Opposition.

We think of the consequences, and again not in the sense of putting blame or

whatever. For example, because there has been no Hebron-Ben Nevis deal, just

think about the consequences that has had. We have a lot of engineers at

Memorial University School of Engineering, one of the best engineering

departments in all of Canada. We train some of our best people. Our university

graduates want to have jobs here, yet there are no jobs. As a result of it, they

go to Alberta and they have to work.

When we look at the City of St. John's here, no doubt - and it has already

been in Question Period today and in the paper today - there are many, many

businesses that are subordinate to the oil industry. Many of the local

industries here in St. John's are going to suffer as a result of that

particular project not going ahead. Nobody wants to give it away, that is not

the objective here. There are two extremities when you talk about any project,

leave it in the ground as it is or develop it. Somewhere in between there has to

be a deal, and that is what the people in the Province are looking for. Nobody

wants to give away their resources. They want a deal so that we can put some

money into the Treasury to do many of the things that we want to do. As a result

of that, many of our younger people, as I said, professionals and nurses and

what have you who would have jobs here, they are not having them. It is having

an affect on the real estate industry here in the city as a result of that not

being done.

Lack of exploration: It does not matter whether we are in an Opposition

district or in a government district, when there are fewer jobs in exploration -

by the way, many of the people who live in my district and many, many of the

other rural districts work with these offshore oil companies or their

subordinates or transportation. For example, when those rigs leave the Grand

Banks and go into the Gulf of Mexico our people do not travel with them. They do

not have the visas and the permits to work in the Gulf of Mexico. What do we do?

We have people who earn $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 or more a year, then all of a

sudden they are unemployed. Once you lose large numbers like that, 500 people or

more, it has a very negative effect on the economy.

I look at the rural part of the Province, for example Harbour Breton. The

Barry Group of Companies moved into Harbour Breton there last fall. They did

some work on the plant. As a result of them moving into Harbour Breton, there

are a number of people who have gotten employment. Some of the management people

have been working straight since before Christmas. A few of the people who have

been working on the plant have not been getting full weeks. There has only been

one or two weeks since December when people have gotten full work. They are

getting fifteen hours a week, and some weeks eighteen or probably twenty, and

some weeks none. The maximum is seventy people that they employ out of 300. The

thing is, for the people who are there, they cannot, under any conditions,

maintain their homes and all of the amenities of life if they are getting one

week's work this week and nothing next week. That is a major concern.

I have had talks with people over the last week or two when I have been down

to Harbour Breton, people with close to thirty years of experience with FPI who

have not had an hour of work. They are concerned. They are concerned that they

will have to do as they have done in the past number of years, go to Alberta or

go to New Brunswick to find work. That is a real concern for the town; not

condemning the Barry Group of Companies who have moved in. They did that. People

are appreciative of the jobs that are there but there is the uncertainty.

For example, at the end of March this year, which is very, very close now - I

had a conversation with the Premier about that yesterday here in the House.

There is 1,000 tons of fish that was given to the Barry Group of Companies to be

used in Harbour Breton, but it runs out. That particular quota stops at the end

of March 31, 2007. There is no fish after that and there is a major quota.

When we talk about aquaculture, yes, no doubt about it, there has been

government investment in aquaculture but it is not leading to full time

employment for a lot of people yet. In the Barry Group of Companies, they have

some sites indicated, but some sites are not even surveyed in the bays and

inlets yet. There are no cages built. So before that particular aquaculture

product goes into the plant it is going to be 2009 or later. What do you do for

2007? What do you do for 2008? What do you do for most of 2009? That is a

problem that these people have.

When you look at the people in the Bay d'Espoir area they will tell you as

well, there are many, many weeks when they do not get full hours, when you get

seventeen or eighteen or twenty hours a week, and then at the end you have to

file for your unemployment insurance and you get $120 a week or $200 every two

weeks. It is not enough. People are having difficulty with that. These are some

of the things that we are faced with.

Today, when the minister announced, for example, the Capital Works Program

for this year and what is happening in many of the smaller communities - I

represent rural communities in the Province. When you have people who are

leaving, people who have never, ever left, people who have been fishing all of

their life who are not even catching their quotas, and going to work in the

North West Territories or Alberta or some other place, as these people leave and

as their families leave with them, and as the older people in the communities

die off, then you have a nucleus of people in those small communities. They are

having concerns and there is fear, there is uncertainty and desperation in some

instances, that they will not be able to maintain the community that they have.

All of us who represent rural Newfoundland communities understand that many of

those people in their fifties and sixties probably do not even have a credit

card. They have never had a mortgage in their lives and to see a situation where

they would have to uproot or to leave or to go to Alberta to work, it is

something that they fear and something that they dread. This is the reality that

is out there. There is nothing more sinister about it than that. People cannot

survive on $6, $7, or $8 an hour as their main employment base, or I should say

wage base. They cannot maintain the standard of living that they have had,

whether you have your mortgage and your car payments and all the other amenities

of life. It is a real problem.

I talked to one lady, in particular, in Harbour Breton only a little while

ago. She said: This is the third year since the plant closed. This is going to

be the roughest year for us yet because we have no quota and the projects that

the government has provided over the last number of years to bridge this step

are not going to be here for us in 2007. They are really concerned about that.

That, in itself, is worrisome to families who have lived in a community all of

their lives.

Then you just go up the road, there are some brighter spots. For example, in

Hermitage, Cooke's Aquaculture just made an arrangement with the Penny Group

of Companies to do 400,000 fish in Hermitage. It will create a number of weeks

for about 100 people in that community, and that's good. The plant in Gaultois

has started to operate, even on a limited scale, but hopefully a little more in

the future. Again, these people cannot survive on a few weeks work, it has to be

long term. When it is not long term they become desperate and look for

alternatives, and in many, many cases they leave the communities. The people who

are left, it becomes a real struggle for them to be able to maintain the

communities.

I think of the situation, as I said, in that area. I also think of the

people, for example, in the Fortune area, and I think of the people in

Marystown. One day last week I called Open Line. I do not do it a lot. But if

there was a situation where we could improve the work hours and the amount of

time for the people in Harbour Breton, if the Barry Group of Companies and FPI

could reach an agreement to have three million pounds of fish that is in storage

brought to Harbour Breton to be processed - but the union in Marystown said,

this is our fish, it was for us. I guess I can understand it to some point, that

they did not want to have this fish processed in Harbour Breton, but the thing

to remember is, it has already been in storage for fourteen months. It is not

going to be able to stay in storage forever if it is not processed. One of these

days it is going to rendered useless and not be able to be processed. If it is

processed, the return on it is not going to be what the company wanted.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. LANGDON: By leave?

CHAIR: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

CHAIR: The hon. member, by leave.

MR. LANGDON: I will just have a minute to conclude.

I am sure that I will have an opportunity to come back to it again, but the

gist of what I have to say is the fact that there are real problems, there are

real concerns, and the people who live in the small rural communities, the

rural, rural communities, are probably finding the situation much more difficult

than what you would find in a large area, the urban areas.

The thing on the large urban areas - the Trans-Canada corridor, so to speak -

they depend on many of the rural communities as well, because these small rural

communities have real disposable income where they can buy some of the amenities

of life and keep their business going. So, there is a real challenge for the

rural part of the Province and unless something major can be done in the short

span and in the long term, then we are going to see a transition in the Province

that we have not seen probably in our lifetime.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Mr. Chairman, it gives me great pleasure to stand here in the

House for the first time. You all know my face, I think. Most people know me

from the city council meetings in the past. I will say one thing: People said

that council meetings were entertaining. I do not think council comes near

Question Period.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: I want to thank all the people who supported me, helped me win

the nomination, helped me win the election, all the people who voted for me in

the Kilbride district. I want to thank my family. My wife is very glad that I

have a House to go to, not our own. She is glad that I got out from under her

feet. I thank my wife, my children, my four children. I have two grandchildren.

I have one grandson, my first-born, since I came here two weeks ago. Actually,

he is two weeks old today.

I am standing to speak on the Interim Supply bill. Most of my comments are

hardly related to that, but I do support the bill. I think everybody here in

this House would actually have to support this, because, if we do not and it

gets defeated, you know the situation we are in, so it is kind of imperative,

but my remarks are kind of -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. DINN: That is right.

They are kind of irrelevant, some of the things that I have to say, but I

will say them.

I have been involved in politics for a good while. I have been watching the

provincial and the federal scene for a good while, and if there is any one thing

that used to irk me in the past was the way our resources in this Province were

given away for short-term employment or short-term benefits.

When this present PC government, which I am very proud to be a part of, when

this government came to power three-and-a-half years ago, they put their foot

down and said: Enough giveaways.

We are now on a path, a course, which will lead us in a new direction. I

think we are going to come from being a have-not Province to a have Province,

and I am very proud to be a part of that, and I applaud my colleagues in

government who have taken that approach and have said that we are going to move

this Province forward. I really applaud you for that.

Now, sitting in the House, you sometimes get the impression that maybe

not-so-good a job is being done sometimes, but I was a former teacher. For

twenty-nine years I taught school, and two or three times a year we made up

report cards. If I were to make up a report card for this government, I would

give you a passing grade with an 80 per cent average.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: That is right.

To further emphasize what I am saying, I look at the last five by-elections

that took place. To support my 80 per cent, we got four out of five of them,

which equals 80 per cent; that is right.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Further vindication of how well this government is doing is

reflected in Minister Tom Osborne's very narrow victory the other night in his

nomination. We might say that they were all PCs who came out, but I happened to

be there, and to see the flock of people that came out to support Minister

Osborne will tell you that this government is doing a great job, and I am proud

of it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: As a former teacher, I am looking at the great things that have

happened in education in the last few years. I see all the work that is being

done on our schools, catching up on the maintenance that was not done in the

past, the roofs that were leaking, the plumbing problems that we had that led to

mould and bacteria and problems in the school. I look at the extensions that

have been put on schools that were needed, the refurbishing of schools to update

them to modern standards. Look at the investment in equipment, phys. ed. and

otherwise, in schools.

I come from the Goulds, and you know that there is a shortage of water all

the time in there, right?

I look at, also, another initiative that has taken place. When I taught

school many years ago, at one time I had fifty-two boys in Grade 7 and Grade 8.

AN HON. MEMBER: That was a handful.

MR. DINN: It was, but I could handle them, believe it or not.

The pupil-teacher ratio at that time was pretty high, as you can see. Today

it is not like that, and this government - and specifically our Minister of

Education - is taking steps to even lower that more; because, when you have

fifty-two guys in a class, you do not get too much time to give them individual

help, as you can imagine. So, I like what is going on with education.

I like another part, too. We are now turning to the needs, the health and

physical conditioning needs, of children. When I was going around, and when I

was writing down a list of things that I wanted to see done, one of the prime

things I had on my list of fifty-two or so things to do was to try to do

something about the health and physical condition of children. You guys have

already got it started, and I applaud you for that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: As a man who hunts a lot - and I did a lot of that since I left

council - I travel our roads. I saw our roads getting in terrible condition. I

have heard stories from plow operators of vehicles that were not able to

function properly any more. Coming from the city where we always invested in a

good fleet, a fleet - what would you call it? - a fleet replacement plan it was,

or a policy, I thought this was not a very good idea, but this government has

invested a lot of money in roads. I go up the Southern Shore, in Keith's

district, and three years ago or four years ago my truck used to take a

pounding. Today, those roads are paved. A lot of roads are being paved. If

things continue like they are, we are going to have a lot more roads done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: I spoke to some mechanics in the Goulds over the last few

years, too. There was a time four or five years ago when forestry and wildlife

officers in this Province could not do their job, could not get out of the

office to do their job, because they had nothing to drive. One mechanic in the

Goulds, his garage is making a fortune repairing old vehicles that should have

been thrown on the scrap heap. Today, we do not have that problem. Any good

business needs a good maintenance plan and a fleet replacement plan, and I think

this government recognizes that.

I am going to speak about something that no one mentioned yet in our talks;

agriculture. Now, I come from an agricultural area -

MR. SKINNER: (Inaudible).

MR. DINN: Minister Skinner, I am a bit of a farmer, along with a lot of

other things.

I was privileged in the last year to be a member of a farm practice review

board. As a part of that board, we went to Labrador. We also made a trip to the

West Coast of Newfoundland and we had meetings in St. John's. On our trip to

Labrador, and especially to the West Coast, I was amazed at the amount of

agricultural activity that is going on in this Province that a lot of people are

not aware of. We are now producing in this Province many products that we are

almost self-sufficient in. I was not aware that we had a farmer out in Cormack,

for instance, who plants out - I think he said - 650 acres of vegetables a year.

Now, that is amazing.

There is a poultry farm out in Corner Brook someplace, or just outside of

Corner Brook, that produces almost enough eggs for this Province. Amazing! I

feel very proud and very comfortable that we now are producing so much food

which makes us safe in having a supply of food in a country, in a world today,

where you could have a disease outbreak that could affect all of our food

imports.

We are now getting to the stage where we are self-sufficient in milk, eggs,

chicken, some vegetables and fruits and things. I think that is amazing. The

safety of our food we should be promoting, I can assure you that. We should be

at that.

I went to Labrador and visited a site. I forget the exact name of the road. I

will not say it, but we went down this road where a number of blocks of land had

been cleared; not a rock in sight. If I was not here and not at something else

and I wanted to go farming, I would love to go there, because you have two

things, good soil and good markets. There is great potential for agriculture

there and I think this government is taking steps already to realize that.

One of the things that I am going to mention, that some of you may not be

aware of, is a program that Minister Ed Byrne put in place to alleviate a

problem that I met when I first got on council, and Minister Skinner probably

heard of it too. We had a big problem in 1992-1993 with the land freeze. There

was a land freeze put on a lot of land in the Goulds-Kilbride area,

indiscriminate of whether or not it was good for agriculture, and people could

not use their land to build on. There were families, mothers and fathers, with

ten, twenty, thirty acres of land that their families could not use to get a

building lot.

Minister Byrne, when he was Minister of Natural Resources, put a program in

place called the land - it may not have been his program. I might be wrong on

that. There was a land consolidation program, which probably never had enough

money, but this government put enough money into it so that today - and my last

years on council, I got one call about the land freeze. Before, we had 250

people sign up as members of a land freeze committee trying to get something

done with that. I applaud you for that and I think it was a great step. Today

the farmers are benefitting from that and so are the people who had land. They

are now able to get a fair price for their land, when before they were only

being offered $2,000 or $3,000 for an acre of land.

On a smaller point: When I was on council four or five years ago, I had

people in the St. John's area, in the Goulds and Kilbride, all over the place,

approach me about the dumping of garbage. I convened a meeting with the proper

people, got the police involved and St. John's officials and workers and so on

at the city, and we were trying to see what we could do about it. We set up a

program. St. John's Clean and Beautiful administered that program. I went to

different departments of this government, and Minister Rideout was very helpful

at the time. You got us some money for cleaning up highways. Between the jigs

and the reels, that first year we picked up 7,200 bags of garbage. We took 100

truckloads of garbage out of the woods and nearly 100 car wrecks; gave

employment to seventeen students and two adults besides. That program continued

for five years with the help of government. If you average about 8,000 bags of

garbage coming out of the woods for five years and on the sides of the streets

and so on, you can imagine what a mess there would be today if it had not been

picked up.

Now, there were a lot of other things that we were able to do with the

co-operation of this government. I will not get into those, but I want to

mention that the district I represent, Kilbride, still has a lot of needs. The

Goulds needs a new sewer system, and Minister Byrne is aware of that. That is

about $23 million. The present pumping system in the Goulds is not able to

handle any new developments or any new infrastructure extensions. There has to

be a replacement for that system.

There are many roads in the area that need to be upgraded. We need to upgrade

Brookfield Road and Southside Road, and Doolings Line needs work on it for

safety reasons. We have other roads that need work on them. The main roads in

the Goulds and Kilbride are just still rural in nature, even though the places

are urban.

In my district, as the Minister of Education is aware, there are many people

looking for a high school for the west end. We are working on that. Southlands

needs a recreation centre, a community centre. A lot of these needs, I do not

know if they are going to go t