Volume XLI Thursday Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Second Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcript] Number 40 24 May 1990

The House met at 2:00 p.m . Mr . Speaker (Lush): Order, please! Before going to Ministerial Statements we have some distinguished visitors in the gallery today whom we would like to welcome. Firstly, on behalf of all hon. Members I would like to welcome to the galleries today, Mr. Masahiko Iwasaki, Consul General of Japan. Ml". ltJJasaki is accompanied by his Lllife, and Mr. Matsubara, the Consul with the':~ Japanese Consulate in Montreal, and also Ml". Aid en Maloney Honorary Consul General of Japan in Newfoundland. Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: Also, on behalf of hon.

Mernbet"S we would likt::~ to extend a 11.1arm and cor·dial welcome to the Hon. Dennis Patterson, MLA, Iqaluit. He is also the Government Leader of the Government of the Northwest Territories, and we would like to extend to him a cordial welcome. Some Hon: Members: Hear, hear! Statements by Ministers Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries . hon. the Mr. Carter: Mr .

Speaker, today I am pleased to announce that next week will see the launching of the second phase of a special two-year seafood promotion, 11 Newfoundland Seafood 1 n ShE!lls. 11 This pt"oject, be!ing done under an agreement with the major pasta manufacturer CateJ.lt Incorporated, is exclusiVE! to this Province and is one of several professionally L1 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI designed, strategic marketing and promot.:ion activities spead1t::~aded by my Department.

This par·ticular bilingual high-profile promotion is funded by the Provincial and Federal Governments under the Canada-Newfoundland Inshore Fisheries Development Agreement (NIFDA), and represents an ideal opportunity to give Newfoundland seafood a high profile within the food service sector. 11 Newfoundland Seafood 1 n Sh~1lls 11 will heavily promote this Pl"ovince 1 s seafood l:o Lhe Food service industry in Canada, the Caribbean and the Pacific Rim where Catelli usually attE!ncls all trade shows. It Llli11 bE! done through professionally designed industry magazine advertisements, trade shows and recipe cards.

Department of Fisher:ies and NIFDA staff are working closely with Catelli to ensure that arctic char, cultivated bJ.ue mussels, underutilized species and traditional groundfish all receive attention in the twenty food service recipes that integrate Newfoundland seafood and Cate1li 1 s wide variety of high pt"otet n, high fibre and vegetable - based pastas. The second phase of this tl!.Jo yeat" promotion beg:ins fuesday, May 29, when photography sessions to highlight all the recipes t.o.li11 be undertaken at. Holiday Inn and Flake House Restaurant in St. John 1 s.

The result will bE· highly professional photography and advertising. The executive chief chef at Ho1iday Inn in St. John 1 s, is under an C":~xclusive contract to develop recipes for the promotion. One of the l"E!Cipes has a1tneady been featured in No1nth American foodservice publications. (Sarnpllc)S of I"E!Cipes ---· in both English and Ft"ench -·- No. tW (Afternoon) rn

are attached to copies of this statement.) Catel.lt lAJi 11 also featuJ"e the PI"OgJ"am in its 1991 food service calendar. I feel strongly, Mr. Speaker, that this promotion will do much to enhance our already favorable marketplace image and increase awareness of available fish species. We must continue to develop such professional and competitive -.images of Newfoundland fish and seafood exports and encourage individual procE:'Ssors to be similarly as conscious of the international competition they face when they are planning their corporate and product images.

Soon you will see the premiere of the generic blue mussel campaign. In order not to take the wind out of the the sails of the launching of that campaign, I will nol: reveal dl':'tails now, but I suggest that hon. Members watch for what will prove to be a unique and attention-getting market entry, the focus of which is to increase awareness about the consumption of our cultivated blue mussels. Through the Provincial Marketing Development Program and the mal"keting program of NIFDA, my Department is making inroads into international market developments and diversification for multiple spc~~cii':~S.

For example, as a rt::~sult of NIFDA assistance to Barry Fisheries Limited and its marketing arm, Western Co-ordinators, a network of large, traditional pelagics producers all along the northeast coast and the west coast are now producing for new orders of mackerel, herring and caplin in Sweden, East Germany, Japan and the USSR, to name a few. This tAiill lead ultimately to a comprehensive development plan for the pelagic L2 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI industry, including both prtrnary and secondary strategies that can be irnplernl':~ntecl in many pJ.ants Province--li.Jide.

Time does not permit giving details of the many market-ing initiatives that have been undertaken and are being planned by the Department of Fisheries in line with Government•s policy of expansion and diversification tAiithin l:he fishoing :industry, but. I would like to mention a few. We are participating in The TastE! of Canada: Oceans of Canc:o.da promotion a:i.rned at the rE! la.i1 market sector in the U.S. WE:~ a1"e contributing $5 ,000 for each of the promotional events to bE! held in ten U.S . cities over the next few years. This year alone, Mr.

Speaker, promotionaJ. displays tAJ:i11 be staged in four United States cities, beginning next month w·:i.t:h a fresh fish promotion in ninety-six supermarket stores within the greater Chicago area. Several Newfoundland processors will have their products displayed in these supermarkets. The Department of Fisheries ois also contributing $5,000 to the Canada Atlantic Lobster Promotion Association for its campaign to increase consumption and promote awareness of lobster.

A bluefin tuna mission to Japan earlier this year did an 'in-depth investigation of the harvesting and qual.ity considerations necessary to generate ·the higher reVI':'l1Ue in that country's fish auction system. This information is being circulated to all industry participants and should result in a more lucrative and quality-oriented industry, bE !ginning this fall. W10! havE:~ participated in international seafood shows to incr'E'i.'ISe awareness of Newfoundland seafood No. LJ.Q (After·noon) r~2

products and help find new rnal"ket opportunities for Newfoundland processors who attend. We plan to strengthen our trade show program by including displays of various underutilized species -- in the raw, or live states where possible and by including value-added dual microwavable secondary product which so many supermarkets strongly demand. Never before have the challenges of competing in the marketplace been as great as they are now. This Province, Mr. Speaker, will continue to pursue aggressively new market opportunities, and enhance its promotion activities. Mr.

Speaker, what we lack in quantity in terms of our reduced groundfish stocks, we intend to compensate for by developing new markets for fully processed underutilized species. Mr. Speaker, I have here, attached to my statement some very attractive brochures outlining the product and I suppose it is only fair to say that, unlike the previous Government, this Government is placing a lot more emphasis on fish production and marketing than what tAle are on cucumbers. Thank you very much, Sir. Some Han. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The han. the Member for Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews : Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for the advance copy of his very positive statement, let me say to the Minister, a very positive statement, and his very colourful promotional brochures tha l: he has here, and it is a very positive statement and I am very pleased that the M:intstel" has brought tt forward and that his Department, L3 May 24., 1990 Vol XLI in conjunction and co-ordination with the Department of Development, is going about promoting Newfoundland seafood throughout the world. There is one other positive but light note on it, Mr.

Speaker, that finally now we have something on this side that we can hold up ·to react ·to the Minister of Social Services everytime he holds up thE:~ pickle recipe book. We can now show him the Catelli Seafood and Shells brochures. So someonE! on t.hE:' other s1de s1:1nt OVE!r a nol:.e IAJhtch sa:id, 1 Efford wLI.J. nov..J tht"OIAJ atAJC.'tY the pickle book. 1 So maybe if things drag on t.hts evening we will see less and less of the pickle book which is Hw Min:i.stE•I" of Social Services best defence. But on a more serious nol:e, Mr.

Speaker, this is VE!l"Y posit:iVE:1 and it is very exciting l:o see Catelli, a major pasta promoter and marketer across the counl:ry and outside Hw country of Canada right throughout the world getting involved. And what is also very interest.ing to note hE!re is that it is exclusive to this Province, which is another most encouraging notE!.

And, of course, in this day and age what w~~ are going through in t.he counti"Y; HH?.re al"e a few o thr:!r wor-ds that sort of jumped out at rnE• in thr:' statement, one part.icularly, it says this particular btlingual high profile promotion is Funded by the Province and the Federal Government. So I arn glad. 'f'hat is another positive note as IAJel1. It is as well a bilingual promotion we are talking about. But it. is very nice to see th:is promotion go'ing on :in the Caribbean and the Pacific R·irn and so on, Mr.

SpeakE!r, and, of course, there are a number of underutil:ized species in this No. 4·0 (Afternoon) IB

Province that need a greater pr·omotion and need to be developed into more attractive dishes for people of, not only Not"th America, but in other parts of the world to buy and consume. So that is encouraging as well. The Minister makes another very important reference in his statement as he goes on to say 1 Never before have the challenges of competing in the marketplace been as great as they now are. And, of course, he makes the reference to the resource crisis and the resource shortage of our groundfish that we are now experiencing.

And I would just like to go on record once more in this Legislature by saying that we have wasted far too much time in the past in harvesting and processing and using underutilized species. And maybe finally, with this very serious resource crisis that we are going through, we will see, not only promotion, but we will actually see the harvesting and the processing and promotional packaging of species that is off our shores, in our waters, that tAle can utilize to improve the economy, improve the employment prospects and so on of the pE!ople of our Province .

So, I would like to finish by saying to the Minister, thanks for the copy, thanks for these very, I must say, attractive promotional materials. And I say to the Minister of Employment and Labour that for people in the kind of jobs that lAJe are in, this kind of thing looks very encouraging and exciting, because we do not have a lot of time to prepare for evening meals and so on, when the Government House Leader will not give us advance notiCE:' as to L4- May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI whether we are coming back or not, so maybe some of us tAii11 be:' consuming Catell:i products in l:he near future. Mr.

Speaker: The hon. the Minister of Finance . Dr. Kitchen: Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it announce that successfully negotiations fot" of debentures in capital market. Thank IJOU, Mt" . is my pleasurE! to the:~ Pt"ovincc:~ has COITiplet.ed a public offE!I"ing the United States The issue is for an amount of $150 rni 11 ion U . S . , bearing in ten~ s t at the rate of 9 7/8 per cent and priced at 99.761 per cent of the principal amount to yield 9.90 per cent to the investors. fhe debentures will be elated June 1, 1990 and lAJill mature after thirty years on June 1, 2020.

This is the first capital marketing borrowing for the 1990-91 fiscal year and the proceeds will be used for general Provincial purposes. The issue is managed by Merrill Lynch Capital Markets, Salomon Brother Inc., RBC Dominion Securities Corporation and ScotiaMcleod (USA) Inc.. I arn pleased to state, Mr. SpeakE•r, that the issue was lAJel1 rE!CE!".iVE!d by the investment cotnmunii~y. including a large number of the major insurance companies, trust companies and pE!nsion funds in the United States.

In connection t~d.th the issue, the U.S. credit 1natin<:1 agencies have confirmed that the Province 1 s ratings will remain unchanged, i.e. Standard and Poor 1 s 11 A- 11 and Moody 1 s 11 Baa1 11 • rhe official signing of the new issue wi11 take place in New Yor·k on June S, 1990. No. tW (Aftet"noon) R 'l-

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some Han. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The han . for Grand Bank . the Member Mr. Matthews: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again I u.Jould like to thank the Minister for a copy of this statement before coming to the legislatUI"e. On behalf of my colleague for Mount Pearl I t~o.d.ll thank him for that and just vei"Y quickly respond and say that we are pleased to see that the Province has successfully completed negotiations for public offerings tn the United States capital market. And it is VE!ry encouraging again that the credit rating has remained unchanged.

But there are a few things that are happentng about the country in the last few months that are a bit disturbing. The instability of the country at present, I understand from some reading I have done and listening to various media reports that with the fluctuation in the value of the dollar and interest rates, a lot of it is centered around the constitutional instability and sort of uproar in the country over the Meech lake Debate. I would sort of suspec ·t that it is going to be costing the Province and maybe other provinces throughout the country, more for borrowing and so on.

So, I would like the Minister over the next short while, if he could inform the legislature and the people of the Province of what actual financial impact this instability ts causing, particularly the Financial situation of the Province. I am surE! the people of the L5 May 24, 1990 VoJ. XLI Province would be interested in knowing that, because it set::'ms from what I have seen and hE•ard, that it has probably alrr:'ady cost the Province a significant amount of money and will cost more in future. Oral Questions Mr. SpeakE!r: The hon. l:.he Mernber fat" Humbet" East . Ms Verge: Ml" .

Spr:~akE!I", my questions are for tht::~ PrE:Hrrier, and they have to do with the Meech Lake Accord and Canadian unity. Last night. the television news showed a large audience of prominent Montreal businesspeople give rousing applause and a standing ovatton to Lucien Bouchard. More and more people throughout the country are becoming fearful of the possibility of the nation breaking up. I ask the Premier tJJhethr:'l" he is worried about the possibility of Quebec separating and whether he thinks Quebec 1 s separating would have serious adverse consequences for Newfoundland and Labrador? Mr.

Speaker: The han. the Pt"errd.et". Premier Wells: If the han. Member had been in, I believe, the same room with a similar number of people in early January oF this year, she wou1d have seen thr::' sarne rousing applause for a speech I gave to a gt"oup of Monttneal businesspeople. as tJJe11. on the MeE~ch Lake issue. IAJhen I put forward Newfoundland 1 s position. In anstJJr:~r l:o yes . I arn consequences her direct question, ·concerned about the of this No. 40 ( Aftet"noon) I' 5

constitutional impasse on the future of lhe nat ton as a whole, and on the future of Newfoundland, as part of the nation of Canada. We must, I believe, butld our Constitution in a way that will preserve the fundamental princtples of federalism but, at the same time, be sufficiently accommodating to vary from those principles to the degree that is reasonable and appropriate to accommodate the recognition of Quebec as a distinct society.

WE! cannot abandon the principles of federalism and agr~::~e to put into force changes in the Constitution that lAJou1d leave this Province, as a province of the nation, in a situation of being a beggar province for the next hundred years. So we have to make sure that we make the kinds of changes to the Constitution of Canada that protect the long-term interests of thE! nation as a u.1hole, and every province must compromise its own wishes or desires to lAJha te v er degree is necessary to achieve that long-terrn national goal on a fair and reasonable basis. Mr . Speaker: The han. the Member for HumbE!r East.

Ms Verge: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. I would like to repeat my question about whethE!r the Premier thinks there would be serious negative consequences for Newfoundland and Labrador if Quebec separates. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Premier . Premier Wells : The possibilit:y is certainly there of serious negative consequences if Quebec were to separate. I cannot imagine a Canada without Quebec. Qut:'bec is an intE!~1raJ. and, in rny L6 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI judgement, essential part of thi.s nation and we ought to be planning in terms of continuing the nation on that basis, with a1.1 the provinces as equal provinces.

Yes, there is a potential, if Quebec separates and ceases to be a part of Canada. What is unspoken in the han. Member 1 s question is what is ltkely to cause that, putting in p1acE! the ME•ech Lake Accord as 'it is, Ol" adjusting the changes of the:' Meech Lake Accord? Frankly, I think. Mr. Speaker, if Quei:H>.c is of a disposition to separate From Canada, putting in place the MeE :!ch Lake Accord will not a1ter that disposition one iota. It rnay delay it, or it may, in fact, hasten it; it may changE! the manner in which it lakes place.

But, if Quebec is of a disposition to separate from Canada, failure to implement the Meech Lake Accor-d will not cause it, any ITIOI"e than implementing it will provide for it in the longer-term future. M1~. Speaker: The han. the Mernber· for Humber East . Ms Verge : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary fol" th(~ Premier. Does the Prelflier feel that Quebec is of a disposition to separate frorn the rE!Sl: of Canada? And what is the PrE·rnir;!r per-sonc.,t11y prepared to do to t1ny l:o pr'eVE!I1'l:: Quebec sepal~at.ing fl~orn thE~ rE!St of Canada? Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Prernier.

Premier Wells: I have no personal knou.1ledge on which to judge that. I do not have the kind of personal knowledge of affairs and the situation in Quebec that would allow me to make an intellectually honest assessment of' that question. I can only ,~c;;,spond by offering to the House the v'iews No. IW (Afternoon) R6

and opinions which have been expressed by others and, frankly, that does not give us much help either. Because you g1:!t a strong variety of opinions which indicate, yes, Quebec is likely to separate if Meech Lake is not implemented, and then you get a strong variety of opinions saying, no, Quebec will not separate at all. And, certainly, she wiJ.l not be any more likely to separate whether the Meech Lake Accord is implemented or is not implemented.

I watch and obser·ve events which take place in Quebec and try and com(:1 to a conclusion fJnom the fact that, for example, the one candidate for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada who strongly opposes the Meech Lake Accord has the support of something in excess of two-thirds of the delegates of Quebec, when he was supposE:~d not to have any delega·te support fr·om Quebec because of his opposition to the Meech Lake Accord. So what does one conclude from that?

I do not know tAli th certainty; there are mixed indicators coming out of it, so I cannot give the House any firm, sound jLJdgment on whE!ther it is likely or not likely, because I have no sound basis for doing so. The final question is, what am I prepared to do about it? I am prepared to do everything reasonably and humanly possible to ensure that we fairly and fully accommodate the sincere and legitimate concerns of Quebec, alt.uays in a way that protects the longer-term interest of the nation as a whole and this Province in partictJlar, for which I, as Premier, have a particular responsibiJ.ity.

I cannot abandon my responsibility to the people of this Province, as the han. MembE!r' s party would have us do, and impose on the people of this L7 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI Province a constitutionaJ. change that is contra1ny to th~dr wishes. I cannot do that and wi11 not do that without their express approbation in a referendum. Some Han. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The hon. the MembE!In for Humber East . Ms Verge : Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My final supplementary: Will the PrerniE!r be releasing in the House of Assembly and disclosing to the public, his latest consti tuti.onaJ. proposals to the Federal Government, I: he paper he gave Senato1n Mur·ray at l:.hE:1 meeting last Monday, for example? Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Premier. Premier Wells : I will, Min . Speaker, when it is appropriate to do so.

Nothing will be done which affects thE:1 future of thE! people of this Province without their full awareness and this HouSE! being satisfied that any action · being taken meets wjth the approval of the people of this Province, by whatever means that satisfaction is attained. Bu 1: I should say to the hon. ME!ITibeJn that it may make it more difficult to resolve the process by my, as orw individual participant, putting forward a firm position now and bargaining through the media. I do not think that is the appropriate way to do it.

The purpose of Senator Murray's visit to all of the PrE:'rniers was to get some kind of a general indication of the views of the Premiers so that he could adv:i.se the Prirne Ministe1n as to thE! desirability or propriety of calling a First Ministers' Conference at th".is stage. ~3o I do not want to a~JglnavatE! t:he No. 40 ( Afte In noon) Wl

si tuat.ion by putting forward a specific position on the part of Newfoundland at this time. I think that would bes·t be done for an open public forum that would take place at the First Ministers• Conference. But, ultimately, I am quite prepared to do it, yes, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker: The han. the Member for Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews : Thank you, Mr . Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Fisheries . I am wondering, could the Minister of Fisheries inform the Legislature, give an update on the situation as it pertains to the Burgeo fish plant?

Is the Minister aware if negotiations are still continuing between National Sea Products and the consortium of companies for the sale of that plant? If so, what is the status to date? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries . hon. the Mr. Carter: Mr . Speaker, I met with the principals of the NatSea Company one day last week. We had a long meeting, at tJJhich time we discussed the possible sale of their plant to a certain Newfoundland Company.

At the meE!ting, they did give us an assurance that the existing quota goes with the plant and tAJiLJ. remain with the plant, or with the new owner, and that is about where it stands now . I understand they are waiting on some kind of formal approval from the Federal Government, and I have bE~en told that as soon as they are ready to give me a further briefing on it, they tAJill. Mr. Speaker: fhe hon. the Mernbe1n for Grand Bank . L8 May 24 ·, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Mr. been Matthews: Speaker. asked A supplementary, Has the Province for financial assistance, or any other assistance, in this deal?

Is the Province involved in any way whatsoever, or is it just that NatSea t.c.Jill keep the Province updated as to what is going on with negotiations between National Sea, the other companies, and thE• Federal Government? Min. Spea I< er: Th~::~ Minister of Fisheries. hon . the Mr. Carter: Mr . Speaker, beforl"! I answer the last par·t of the han.

Member• s question I should say that we wrote the Federal Minister last week, following my meeting with the NatSea principals, spelling out our position in terms of the existing quo£~ that company holds for the Burgeo plant, and letting it be known to the Federal Minister. in no uncertain terms, that we would certainly not tolerate that quota br:dng rE•rnovr:~d from the Burgeo plant. Getting back to the second part of his question, no, we have not bE•en asked by the company negotiating for the purchase of the p1ant For any kind of financial. asststance.

I am not saying they tAJill not be asking. but certain1.y to dat. E• we have not received any such request. Mr. Speaker: The bon. the Memi:H?.r for Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews: Thank you. Mr . Speaker. The fish quota allocation, from day o~e the company. National. Sea Pt~oducts, voluntarily offered that fi sh to the new consortium oF companies. No one had to ttAJist t.heir arms to do that, which is good. It is encouraging, as wondering if. in lAJ(! 11. I arn the meetings with No. 4-0 (Afternoon) R8

National Sea Products, the Minister posed the question to National Sea Products that if th~;:1 Bur·geo p1ant is not sold to this other group of companies. has the Minister determined if National Sea Products will operate in Burgeo if this deal falls through? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries. han. the Mr. Carter : Mr. Speaker, we did talk about that and, of course, the answe1n, I suppose, is obvious. The management plan fo1n 1991 has not yet been released.

I suspect it is not even being considered yet by the Federal Government; they a1n~~ not aware of what the quotas will be next year, what the total allowable catches will be. I suppose whether or not the Burgeo plant will continue in operation under the existing operator will depend, to a lar•gt;! extent. on the outcome of the new 1991 rnanagemen t plan. If the quotas arE! drastically reduced. then, of course. who is to say what will happen? Again. they will have to wait until we see what happens next year.

Let us hope the TAC will not be reduced. and if the p1ant is not sold. they will see fit to continue operating it. Mr. Speaker: for Fogo . The han. the Member Mr. Winsor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is also to the Minister of Fisheries. The Minister is well at.l.lare that this year the fishery in NetJJfoundland. particularly the lobster/lump roe. has beE!n a complete disastt;!r due to low prices.

To compound an already disastrous fishery, this week's storm played havoc with the -.inshore fishermen and fixed gt::1ar. and resulted in a considerable L9 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI loss of lobs l:E!r traps. lurnp nets. henning nE!tS and so on. Has the Minister any prelimina1ny e•st:imates as to the damagE! done• during this week's sto1nrn? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries . han. the Mr. Carter: Mr. Speaker, I talked yesterday with some fishermen on the northeast coast. One. t!Jho is weLl. known, Ml".

Al"thuln Wicks, bdephoned m10:1 early in U1E:! lnOI"n:ing to give me a briefing on behalf of the fishermen of Bonavtsta North. I had one of my field people contact Mr. Wicks. They ar<:• now getting from him an assessrnE:'nl:. as to what damage was done. In other areas where damage was done, especially tAr.ith lobster· pots, my field staff are now in the process of getting an assessment. I should point out: to t.hE• ME!InbE!r, Mr.

Speaker, that while we are unable to provide direct assistance to peoplE! 1.1.1ho loSE! lobster pots. tAle do have a lobster pot bank, one, in fact, I take some credit for starting back some years ago, when I hE!ld this job before, one of the great revolutionary innovations which came about during my being in this job in the past. But, anyway, these lobster pots are available for a nominal. cost. Once we hav~:· assessed the number of pots t.l.lh.-i.ch have been destroyed, the~n that program will be available. Mr. Speaker: for Fogo . The hon. the Membt;!r Mr. Winsor: A supplernE!ntai"Y, Ml" . Speaker.

This. unlike previous problems in ·the fisher·y, has always been able to be blamed on the Federa1 GovernrnE!nt. The Federal Government has had nothing to do tAdth this problE!rn. It i.s No. 11-0 (Afl~ernoon) R9

not a resource problem. I am asking the Minister, will he implern~'nt a program, an immediate response program, to help all those fishermen, some of whom, in my District particularly, have lost anywhere from 50 per cent to their total gear for the season? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries. hon. the Mr. Carter: Mr. Speak e1~, I do not know if we can blame thE! weather on the Federal Government. I am sure if we try hard enough we can find a way of doing it, maybe bad forecasting or a lot of wind corning down from central Canada. But, anyway, Mr.

Speaker, we cannot very well put in place a response program until we have had a careful assessment made of the damage, and that is being done. I can only say that once we have that assessment, then we will see what we can do to help. Mr. Speaker: for Fogo . The hon. the Member Mr. Winsor : The Minister made reference to the lobster trap bank. What numbers does it contain? Is the cost still fixed at seven dollars per trap? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries . hon. tht~ Mr. Carter: I am many lobster pots bank, Mr.

Speaker, feeling there are number there, and I that seven dollars price being charged . not sure how remain in the but I have a quite a large seem to rE! call a pot is the t1.!.:_.: __ ~P e a k e _r : T h e han . the Member for Fogo. Mr. Winsor: A final LlO May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI supplementary, Mr. Speaker '. In light of this disasb:~r. and since tl1e fishermen have not had a chance to have a very active fishery so far, and due to low prices, will the Minister review this program with a view to lowering the price or pass i bly making the traps free at this point in time to all those fishermen affected? Mr.

Speaker : fhe Minister of Fisheries. hon. l:.he Mr. Carter: Mr . Speaker', I would certainly offer to have a look at it . I can 1 t guarantee, though, that we would be able to do much about it. Let us face it, sr:~VE!n dollars for a lobster pot. is not all the money in the world. Mr. Winsor: Two hundred times seven is. Mr. Carter: But we are prepared to take a look at it, Mr. Speaker, and see what can be done, tAli thou t making any promises . Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Mernber' for Port au Port . Mr. Hodder: Mr. Sp1:~akE!r, a question along the sam~:! l:i .nes.

The Minister says l:.hal : seven dollars a lobster pot is not VE•I "Y much. I would like to say l:o the Minister that when a fishermen has lost 300 traps and he has only been thr~~e days into the fishE!l~y, I don 1 t know where he is going to pick up $2,100 when he ha s to replace all those traps at shol~t notice. Mr. SpeakE!r, I don 1 t think that is a very good answer. Mr. Speaker, my questi .o n is a follow-up. As the Minister· is no doubt aware, the lobster fis hE·rrnE!l1 on the west coast havE~ been totally wiped out. In my district No. 4-0 (Afternoon) R 10

alone, which provides roughly 20 per cent of the lobster for the whole Province, this year the:1 prices are low and the ice has kept the fishermen from fishing on the west coast and now, due to storm damage, the fisherme~ have lost all their traps, could the Minister tell me what he intends to do? This is the worst disaster in living memory, certainly the worst disaster since I have represented the District, which is some fifteen years. Could the Minister tell me if there wi.l1 bE! some relief for those fishermen? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries. han. the Mr. Carter: Mr . Speaker, I can only tell the han.

Member for Port au Port what I just told his c o 11 e a g u e from Fogo , that -we u.Ji 11 have a look at it and what can be done will be done. Mr. Speaker: The han. the Member for Port au Port . Mr. Hodder: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker. On a number of occasions the Minister said he would visit the District of Port au Port. As a matter of fact, the Premier said he was sure the Minister would vist Port au Port. Mr. Speaker, in view of the disaster which exists in the fishery - I mean, Mr. Speaker, when something happens in the United States, the President of the United States goes to see it.

I am sure if there is a disaster in the Province the Minister of Fisheries can go and see it. What I am asking the Minister is, tJ..Ji11 the Minister visit the west coast of the Province? Will he look at what's happening? Will he talk to the fishermen? It has been tol:al devastation, the worst in living rn~::1mory. Wi11 the MinislE!r' go and Lll May 24-, 1.990 Vol XLI view thc::1 situation to seE! tJ..Jhat h<:· can do, ftnd out from thE! people, and at least give thE!ITI somE! relief, that he at least pays attention to their problems? Mr. Speaker : The Minister of Fisheries. han . the Mr. Carter : Mr.

Speaker, I am not sure if the President of the United States u.Ji.ll be visit-:i.ng Port au Port this weekend, but I'11 be visiting Port au Port this weekend. I am heading out west this weekend. I have a func-t·:ion in Deer Lake, I bE!l:i.eve it i.s, on Saturday. I have beE!n invi t-.·.ed to walk, I believe it is a fJ.fty or sixty mile walkathon in Corner Brook on behalf of some good charity. I can tell the han. Member now that no matter the President of the United Sta l::es does, I w:i.11 be:1 going to thE! Point au Port Peninsula thts weekt:!nd to see firsthand what has been happening out there. Mr.

Speaker: The han. the MembE!r for Port au Port . Mr. Hodder: the MinistE!r around Port wasting his walk, out in Mr . Speaker, perhaps should take a walk au Port instead of time on a fifty mile the woods, I suppose. Mr. Sp~::1aker, a nE!lJJ question.

In light of the information that carne up in the Legislature last year concerning the Government guaranteed loan of $1.6 million for Twillingate, the rnanagNnen L fees, l":he broi<E!rage fees and all the other things that were brought up here in the House yesterday, can the Minister of Fisheries tell me why, :in the caSE! of the Piccadilly plant, he would not advertise for an operator, a VE!ry cheap thing, why he lAJould not refurbish the plant, put a few No. 40 (Afternoon) Rll

cutting tables and things in, and why he wouJ.d not promote the opening of this particular plant, Mr . Speaker? I want to ask the Minister is this fairness and balance? Is it only in the Minister 1 s District? And doesn 1 t the Minister think is a conflict of interest? Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Fisheries . han . the Mr. Carter : Mr.

Speaker, it is very :i ntet"es ti ng, by l:he way, those of you who watched television on the nigl'lt of April 18, when I announced that Oceana Seafoods was going in receivership, saw the Leader of the Opposition up demanding that I resign because I allowed a fish plant in my District to go insolvent. Now, with ·the help of the Economic Recovery Team and a bit of luck, we managed to get the plant back in operation and they are still complaining aboJt it. Mr. Speaker, the

preamble to his question was entirely wrong. We did not give the company a $1.6 million loan guarantee. And I might want to correct an error in the p1ness, or on television, when it was suggested that maybe we wrote off a loan for that company of $1.9 million. That is not so. We will have to write off a loan of $1.9 million that t.uas made by the previous Government to the previous company. It was their loan to another company that defaulted . An Han. Member: You increased it. --------··-·---··-Mr. Carter: No, we did not increase it and I have the proof here.

And while the argument was going on between the Leader of the Opposition and myself, he was saying $1.5 million and I was L12 May 24, 1.990 Vol XLI saying $1.9 million, there is proof that it was $1.9 million. So he was wrong again. An Hon. Member: (Inaudible) extended it (inaudible). Mr. Carter: We extended it, Mr. Speaker, but it was paid off at no charge to the Government. Mr. Speaker, getting back to thE! question. Every effort t~hat. can be made is being made by officials :in my Department to find an operator for thE:~ PiccadiLLy plant, but I am sure he t.uill unders t<~nd that it is not a simple matter.

The plant has had a reco1"d of not being too successful, mainly because of tl'le shortage of resource. Mr. Hodder: That is not true. Mr. Carter: Well, tE!l} the:' companies who went bankrupt there. Mr. Hodder: there . Nobody went bankrupt Mr. Carter: Or at least IAJho moved in for a year or two moved out. have and Mr. Speaker, tJJe are looking For' i.'ln operator. If we can f1.nd one, wo will be very happy l:o discuss it with him and hopefully put somebody there to make a go of it. An Han. Member: In what year would you say that will happen? Mr. Speaker: for Menihek. The hon . the ME!rnber Mr. A. Snow: Mr.

SpE!ai<E!r, rny question is to the Minister of Social Services. He will be atAJaJ"e, of course, tha L thE! farrri ly crisis sheJ.l:er in WE!Stern l.abr"ador' has been operating since 1985, No. LJ.o (Afletnnoon) Rl2

mostly on volunteer efforts and financial contributions from the local area, and, of course, with funding from the Department of Social Services. Is the Minister aware of the importance of the Family Crisis Centre to the residents of Western Labrador, and could he update this House on what the present status of this Centre is? Mr. Speaker: The han. the Minister of Social Service . Mr . Efford : Thank you, M1~. Speaker. Yes. I am aware of its extreme importance to the community, although it is not a large Centre. I think approximately eleven people went into that Crisis Centre last year, 1989.

In previous years there were somewhat 1e s s than that; nevertheless, whether there tAJas one or eleven or one hundred. the Crisis Centre is certainly important to the community. We were only told, I think it was yesterday afternoon, that the Crisis Centre may have to close its doors due to financial problems. We have already forwarded them monies to cover the deficit they incurred through last year's Budget, and we have also fortAJardr;!d to them so far this year, the monies WE! had allocated under this year's Budget. Mr. Speaker: for Menihek. The han. the Member Mr. A.

Snow: Well, the Centre is presently closed. I believe it closed yesterday, as thE! MinistE•r suggested. Can he tell me if his Department is going to allocate more funds to permit this Centre to open up again? Mr. Speaker: The hon . the Minister of Social Services. Ll3 May 24., 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Efford: Well, I can't·: l:.r:'!ll tJie-·-.. ·h-on, ... -.. - Member what funds, if any, we are going to give them. Certainly we have to look at the effect it is going to have on l:he community. I am sending an official from my Department down to Labrador to meet with thE! people in that particular Crisis Centre.

You are quite right lAJhE!n you say it was a voluntary organization when it lAJas SE!t up in Lhe br::~ginning. but it has notAl reached the point where there are some paid positions at that paJ~ticu1ar Centre. They arr:~ requesU.ng, I think, approximately an extra $30,000 over and above the monies they received this year, which t~.Jas in the vicinity of $21,000.

We ar~;! t a I< i n g a 1 o o I< at i t , b u t f .i r s 1- I would like to have an officiaJ. of my Department go to l:he CE!nl:re and meet with the pE!OpJ.e to SE!e exactly what amount of money they need to operate, and to ensure that the request they have made to the Department of Social Services is a reasonable request. Mr. Speaker: for Menihek . The hon. Lhe Mernber Mr. A. Snow: Ml~ .

SpeakE!I", I wonder if the Minister could inform this House and thE• pE•oplE! of Western Labrador, who are dirE!CtJ.y concerned tAJith Lhis, when his officials would be corning in to visit with these people to discuss the problem tAJith thr:Hn. In light of the fact, of course•, thclt the present Budget tAle are operating under in this Province approved a $10 million surplus, the problem can't be that Lhey don't have the necessary revenues, the monies for it:. They a1~e forecasting a $10 tni.11 ion surplus, No. 4.0 (Afternoon) R13

so that can 1t be the problem. And, of coul"Se, there is aJ.so the fact that $3 or $4 million of that surplus is coming out of Western Labrador. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Minister of Social Services. Mr. Efford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, whether this Province has a surplus or not is certainly not a concern of mine today, as Minister of Social Services, tAJith respect to the facility in Labrador.

I have a legitimate concern, as does every Member of this Government, with the operation of such facilities around the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the one in Labrador is no more nor no less than any other centre in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We do have a concern. I am sending an official in. I was not made aware of this until late yesterday afternoon. I met with an official of my Department this morning and that person is already making arrangements to go in. I am hoping it will be within the next week, as early as next week or, at the very latest, two weeks.

But she is making arrangements to go in to meet with the officials, or operating voluntary officials of that particular Center. I can assure the hon. ME!mber that we are placing high emphasis or concern on this particular Crisis Center. We knbw its importance to the community. We are not going to put it off or put. it on the back burner, it lAJil1 bE• dealt l.Uith immediately. So I would tell the Member, he can inform the pr:!ople of Labrador that it will be no later than two weeks, and probably less than that. Ll4 May 2'1·, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Speaker: The hon. L:h1;! Me:~rnber fol" Green Bay. Mr.

Hewlett: Thank you, Ml" . Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has been said that the han. Pl"ernier likE!S to run this place like a courtroom, but honest to God, Mr. Speaker, if I might use that phrase today, this seems like a Church and I wonder if it has to do with the television coverage last night. I WO U 1 d as k thE! Mini s t E!

I" of Energy, who sits in a pew opposite, a few days ago the Premier indicated that the guarantee fee required -Hydro to go to the Utilities Board, and it has already been there, including the guarantee fee and th~C~ PDD subsidy phaseout, but hE! indicat:.ed, as well, quite emphatically, that Hydro or Newfoundland Light and Power would not have to go to the Board because of the payl"o11 tax. I wonder if the Minister of Energy would explain that, please. Mr. Speaker: The hon. thE! Minister of Energy. Dr. Gibbons: Thank you, Ml~ . Speaker. Some weeks ago, I answered this question, Mr.

Speaker, by saytng thai: Hydr·o would not be making a new representation to the PUB as a result of the payroll tax. Any extra cost as a result of that tax will be included in deferred costs, which will be addressed :in three years time. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the MembE:'r for Green Bay. Mr. Hewlett: So is the Minister indicating, Mr. Speaker, that while they have dom' a l:hl"ee y~~ar thing bE!foi~E! the Board ri~~ht nolAJ, wh, :!n that three years arE! up the No. /1.0 (Afternoon) Rl4

payroll tax and other factors will be brought before the Board by Hydro at that time? Mr. Speaker: The han. the Mines of Mines and Energy. Dr. Gibbons: Mr. Speaker, any costs which are still deferred at that time, which have not been recovered in the rates which are going to be approved at this time, as a result of the present hear i n g , wi 11 be con s i d e r· e d i n a future rate hearing. It is anybody 1 s forecast what the situation and the circurnstanc;es may be at that time. We do not know what is going to happen to the rain, and the more it falls the better.

Every inch that falls saves Hydro about $4 million in the purchase of oil. So, let the rain fall and let other things happen. What is going ·to happen in the long-term in terms of Hydro rate increases depends on that and many, many other factors, and it will be addressed at that time. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Member for St. Mary 1 s- The Capes. Mr. Hearn: Thank you, Mr. Speaker-.---My question is to the Minister oF Fisheries.

Several times now in the House, and in the press yesterday, the Minister said he wo u 1 d not do any t hi n g f o r· TwilJ.ingate that he would not do for any other place in the Province, and vice versa. In light of the fact the Minister admitted yesterday that there is a nominal if any lease on the Twillingate plant owned by the Province, will he now instruct the operators of all provincial plants around the Province that they do not have to pay any lease this year? Mr. Speaker : The hon. the L15 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI Minister of Fisheries . Mr. Carter: Mr .

Speaker, yesterday in the House I said I would, in the case of the Twillingate plant - in fact, we have done a lot less for the Twillingate plant than we have done for most other plants which have reopened this year. And I repeat, there is no loan guaranteE!, no offE!r to pick up losses. You know, it. is a unique d e a 1 . B u t , c E! r t a i n 1 y , i n l:. e r rn s o f other plants which are owned by the Province, each wi11 bE! tlnE!atE!d on its own merits. We do own a sizable number of fish plant facilities around the Province. In fact, just a fE!W days ago WE! arranged to lease one to an operator in the han.

Member 1 s District, up in Branch. But, again, they will be treated on their own merit, and as they come in, then we will deal with them. Mr. Speaker: expired. QuesU.on Period has Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees Mr. Speaker : The hon . l:he MinistE!r of Employrnen t and Laboutn Relations. Ms Cowan : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I wish to present today to the House of Assembly, the Third Annual Report of the Workers Compensation Appeal Tribunal. 0 0 0 Mr. Speaker: The han. th~;:' Mernbe1~ for Eagle IUve•r . No. 40 (Afternoon) R l. r.-J

.~r_..! __ _Q_':JJn are s 9..!:1.~ : Thank you, Mr . SpE!aker. I rise today to request the adjournment of the House to address a matter of urgent public importance, and the subject that I am talking about, Mr. Speaker, comes under Standing Order No. 23. The subject I am talking about is the Federal Government's decision not to extend unemployment insurance benefits to 1,100 people along the coast of Labrador. In the next couple of minutes, Mr. Speaker, I would like to outline why I feel there should be an emergency debate on this issue - first of all in terms of the need. Mr.

Speaker, as of May 15, 1990, there are 1,100 people from L'Anse-au-Clair to Nain who have no income of any kind coming into , their households. These people, Mr. Speaker, are the heads of their families. These arE! the people, Mr. Speaker, who at this point in time have to get ready to prepare for the coming fishing season. Also, Mr. Speaker, these individuals, because of the time of the year; about 70 per cent of them have to prepare their families to move outside to their fishing stations .

So this is the time of the year when they need this money the most. rhey have to go to their local merchants and get food, clothing, fishing supplies and so forth, and right now, Mr. Speaker, tAli th not a· cent of income coming into their households they are indeed in dire straits. Also, Mr.

Speaker, accentuated by the the first time in over a dE!Cade now, Labrador coast is shores, there is the need fact that a decade, the ice on fast to is for or the the absolutely no possibility of any able to get out fishermen being to the fishing L16 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI grounds, if inde10•d, thE!re tAJas any fish corning there. TherE! is a1.so, Mr.

Speaker, no doubt, that the cod stock maVE!ments along the Labrador coast: there is no lAJay that these can be• harves t.E!d E!Ven if there was any access to the fishing grounds, because the northern cod stock or the Gulf stock does not show up on the coast of Labrador befor·e at least June 15 and in many places bE!fOI~E! the July l. The other basis, Mr. Speaker, for which I want to base my request for an emergency debate, is on the Federal Government's misunderstanding of this particular issue.

I particularly want to indicate what I feel is the basis for discrimination which the people of Labrador are being forced to suffer. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, we received a letter from the Federal Minister, Monique Vezina, saying that the UIC benefits could not be extended because it meant there had to be unifoJ"rn application of benefits for fishermen all over Canada.

There could nE•ver be any application of compassion to the people of the coast of Labrador because she said, Mr. ~>peakE!Y', that they aJ~e supposed to be me•nding thEdr nets and Fix:i.ng their gear and preparing For the fishing season now, between May lSth and the 15th of Jurw or the first of July. I submit, Mr. Speaker: what are they to live on while they are ITIE!nding theJr gec-H' and preparing for the fishing season? Also, Mr.

Speaker, yes tE!rday in her letter, Monique Vezina indicated that she could not. see hou.J they coul.d extend Lhr:- bE!nefit.s for these fisher'ITIE!n becaus<~ it ~ 1nay contravene the Free Trade No . 40 (After ·noon) R16

Agreernen t. I submit, Ml". Speaker, that this country has come l:o a point where we have to question openly and loudly but, again, constructively on the state of our social safety net, and look exactly at where we are when it comes to instilling compassion and being able to help out those who cannot help themselves. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that it. is time that this House gave s E!riou s thought ·to countering the neo-conservative agenda that is emerging from the Federal Government. We are seeing time and t:i1ne again where the application of the principal of survival of the fittest is being applied.

It is being applied here, Mr. Speaker, to the fishermen of Labrador, and we are in no position to be able to cope with that underlying principal. I submit also, Mr. Speaker, at this point in time there gross misunderstanding of situation. Mr. Speaker: Order, please! that is a the I want to remind the hon. gentleman ht:' is now into the substance of his presentation, should the debate be granted. The hon. Member 1 s duty is to point out to the Chair the need for the emE!rgency debate on the particular item, and he should avoid getting into too much substance of the debate. So, I want to remind the han.

Member, who is a new Member, of the procedure, so the han. gentleman should just about begin to clue up. He is asking for emergency debate and ought not to be debating what he is indeed asking for. ThE! han . River. L17 the Member for Eagle May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Dumaresque: Thank you vt:~ry much, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate your remarks as they are given. I am new, and I would adrni t tha l:. I am inexperienced, but I am here today, Mr. Speaker, to deliver from my heart, bt:~cause I want to be able to show this House tha·l:.

I am here to try and give to the people of Labrador what they justly deserve from any responsible government. And I will clue up on l:hat basis, Mr. Speaker, and hope that tAJ(! can get a chance to debate this all important issue, and that 1,100 people on the coast of Labrador should not bE! subjected to such a cruel and unusual punishiTIE!nt when they, through no fault of their ot.un, are in a position they can ill afford to bE! in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The han. the M<:•mbel" for Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews : Thank you, Mr . Speaker. I would just like to say to the hon.

Member that we on this side realize very much just how serious this situation is. I am wondering if the han. Member would consider, perhaps, a l"esolu t.ion or a motion covering his concern and then we would move unanimous consent of thE! LegislaturE~ ca11:i.ng upon the Federal Government to immediately get on about extending the UI benefits for the fishel"men affected. I arn wonder if that is a possibility. Mr . Speaker : The hon. the Government House Leader . Mr. Baker: Yes, Ml". SpeakE!r', the House can do anything by leav•"! :in that regard. Maybe if the han.

Member could get together with the ME:'rnbE:~l" fo1" Grand Bank and put. together something in the next few No. 4-0 (Afternoon) Rl7

hours and present it to the House, and when it is ready for presentation in the House we could just 1 by leave 1 do it. That would be perfectly acceptable to us. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Member for Eagle River . Mr. Dumaresque: Yes, Mr. Speaker, certainly I will be happy to do that. I commend the hon. Member for Grand Bank for making that offer to the House. I will be happy to ge:~t togethe1n to cornpiJ.e that resolution. Certainly through the regular budget debate this afternoon maybe we could expand a little bit more on the seriousness of this issue. Mr.

Speaker: The Chair is not sure it understands now whether the Member asked for emergency debate. The hon. Member for Grand Bank made a proposal that t..ue send oFf a resolution, so I wonder if we do that in lieu of making a decision. We make note of the agreement. The House agrees they will send off a resolution to the Federal Government. The han. the Member for Eagle River. Mln ..... __ p_umaresque: Mr. Speaker, in light of the accommodation the Opposition has shown, I certainly would go for that and withdraw the request for the special debate. Mr. Speaker: Agreed. Orders of the Day Mr. Baker: Motion 6, Mr.

Speaker. Motion, Justice entitled. Ll8 the hon. the Minis l~er of to introduce a Bill "An Act To AmE!nd The:' May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI Registration Of De!C'!ds Act" . No. 49) (Bill On motion, BilJ. No. 49, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Mr. Baker: Motion 7. Motion, the hon. the Minis ·ter of Works, Services and Transportation to introduc1:- a Bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The HightAJay Traffic Act, 1988". (Bill No. t~8) On motion, Bill No. 4-8, road a a SE!COnd first tirne, Olndered lnE!ad time on tomorrow. Mr. Baker: Motion 8.

Motion. the hon . the Social Services to Bill entitled, "An The Child Welfare (Bill No. 51) MinistE!r of introduce a Act. To AITIE!nd Act, 1.9'72". On motion, Bill No. 51, read a first time, ordered rei.'"ld a second time on tomorrow. Mr. Baker: Motion 9, Mr. Speaker. Motion, the hon. t:he Minister of Social ServiCE!S to introduce a Bill entitled, "An Acl: To AITIE•nd The Adoption Of Children Act, 1972". (Bill No. 52) On motion, Bi .11 No. 52, r'l:!i.>cl a first U .rne, ordet~E!d lnE!ad a suconcl time on tomorrow. Mr. Baker: Order 29, Mr. Speaker. Motion, second 1neading of a Bi.] 1, "

An Act To ArnNld. The N~:·tAJfounc11and And Labrador Hydro Act, 19'75". (Bill No. 31) Mr. Speaker: ThE:' hon. the Mernbe1n For Green Bay. No. tW (AFternoon) R18

Mr. Hewlett: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should say, Mr . Speaker, thank you, Reverend Sir, because the atmosphere in this Assembly today is most certainly somewhat church-like. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, events on the television last night shows that the Canadian nation-state is in definite jeopardy and this has brought about an atmosphere of some quiet on the other side. The connection hE!re, Min.

Speaker, for the han. gentleman tAJho asked, is quite simply that fo1n quite sornl':~ time in this Legislature and in the body politic of the Province, the Meech Lake debate and the Premier 1 s rather strong, dare I say, radical stand on that matter, has served as a very convenient smoke screen trying to disguise from the eyes of Newfoundlanders the reality of the economic policy, the reality of the Budget of the han. gentleman opposite.

The Bill before us exhibits just one piece of that particular Budget, a Bill to allow the Government to charge the Hydro Corporation a guarantee fee which in the current calendar year probably runs in the order of $10 million. But, Mr. Speaker, let 1 s not forget that given the sorry state of the Canadian nation-state today, given falling investor confidence, the possibilities of a recession, the interest rates that . the hon.

Minister opposite complains about so much, it is quite possible that the economy of the central part of this nation may falter, stagger, even fall considerably, over the next twelve months or so, and the Minister may find that equalization revenues and other revenues passed to us through the Federal Government, may well drop-off and the Minister may be stuck for another $10 or $20 million in order to balance 1_19 May 24-, 1990 Vol XU his Budget, Mr. Speaker. The Bill allows thE! Cabinet to sr:'t the rate of the guarantee fee.

If the Minister needs a quick $10 million all he has to do is change the fee from one per cent to two per cent. If he needs another $20 million, all he has to do is make it three per cent and tJJe are atAJay to the races. That lAJay this Government, in its smokt:' and mirrors budgetary process, can pretend that it is balancing Lhe books of the ProvincE!, lAJhen in actual fact it is doing so, but unbalancing the books and the bank accounts of the individual citizens and electrical rate payers in this Province. Mr.

Speaker, this is a cold, uncaring right wing Government that has forgotten Lhe litt.le guy to whom it madE! aLl thE• p1norn:i.ses when it lAJas in opposition. They have eliminated the $30 rn:i.llion subsidy to the Power Distribution District, they are charging this $10 million guarantee fE!e, and now they have a payroll tax. The han. the P1nemier·, in Question Period the other day, indicatl':!d to me that no, no, no, Hydro would not have to go before the PUB to recover· the pay1noll tax. ThE!

Minister of Energy admi !:.ted today that after the three year rate increase that they sought a little while ago, it is highly likely that Hydro will have to go back to recover the payroll tax, to recover the two or three per c E! nt guarantee fee that the Minister of Finance will probably be forced to put on Hydro, b€!CalJSE! the economy of the Province and thE! nation is faltering, so the people of this Province, Mr. Speaker, given 13.5 per cent request for the first three years of an eiqht year phase-in period could easily be No. 4-0 (A Fte1nnoon) Rl9

facing 4-0 or 50 pel~ cent increase during the decade of the 1990s and just in case, Mr. Speaker, the media and the people of the Province are not well informed of the debates in the Assembly, I would indicate to the Minister that the Opposition Leader and myself held a press conference this morning to further reinforce the idea that people should become knowledgeable of the Minister of Finance's hand in their pocket, and we want the people to know that the great Liberal Party which was deadly opposed to power rate increases are bringing them about in droves. The han. Minister of Finance, Mr.

Speaker, has got the taxpayers of the Province by the ankles, he has got them upside down and he is shaking them and the nickles and dimes and loonies are falling out of their pockets, so this particular Government has undergone, to use the phrase, a real change. They in opposition were deadly opposed ·to raising people's Hydro rates. They are cutting down your ability to cut firewood if you want to heat your horne with wood. They are raising the hydro ratE!S, they are raising the taxes, a very subtle, insidious Budget.

Everything sounded good the first day the speech was read but ever since then we have been uncovering all sorts of things that are going to gouge money out of the taxpayers of the Province. The Minister is balancing his Budget. New York may be happy with him. The bond flotation he mentioned a little while ago in Ministerial Statements, all of that may be going good for the time being, but sooner or later the ordinary citizens of this Province are going to have to start paying for that, Mr. Speaker .

I indicated L20 May 24, 1990 Uol XLI e•arlier that the Minister, if hr:' wants to pick up a quick $1.0 or $20 million, could raise thE! ratE! of the guarantee fee. An Han . Member: free samples . (Inaudible) sornE! Mr. Hewlett: That is all well and good if the Minister wants to find himself a quick $20 millio n here and there, Mr. Speak er, but the Budget of the Provi nce that the Minister administers has in excess, I suppoSE!, of probably $1.5 billion Federal in transfer payments to this Province. The first Minister of this Province, Mr.

Speaker, waded in to the constitutional debate, took legitimate concerns from the local point of view of two provinces, heated up the debate on the national scene, developed uJhat. can only be described as nati.ona1 hysteria on this Meech Lake business, and now the entire Canadian nation-state is in danger. If the Canadian nation-state is in danger, Mr. Speaker, the $1.5 bil1ion that the han. Minister of Finance gE!tS every year from Ott:awa is in danger as we11.

I talked to Mclean's Magazine earlier this morning and I indicated to them: my father is a retired person depE!ndent entirely on h:ls fE!d,:H·al pE!nsion, but if the country falls apart, Mr. Speaker, what is my father at agE! sixty-seven ud.th c1 Grade lX education, after forty-seven years in the L\Jol~k force, what is he gotng to do to feed his wife, and to pay his light btll? What is he going to do, Mr. Speaker? The $1.. 5 bi11ion that this Government depends on, the rnonth1y cheque that rny father. your father, the mothers tJJith their family a11oiAJance chE!ques. all of those things are in jeopardy, Mr.

Speaker. becausE• of No. 4·0 (Afternoon) R20

the extremely radical stance taken by the First Minister of this Province in the constitutional debate currently on the go in this nation. An Han. Member: You are making a fool of yourself. Mr. Hewlett: I am not making a fool of myself at all. Sir. I am saying what was said on national television for three hours straight last night. An Han. Member: By whom? Mr. Hewlett: By Canadians from coast to coast in this country. I was born a Canadian and I have a funny feeling that I am going to die a citizen of the republic of Newfoundland thanks to Clyde Kirby Wells. An Han. Member: Chicken. chicken! Mr.

Hewlett: I am not chicken. Sir, not at all. It would do very well that we have no further chicken jokes from the other side of the House. They have already gotten the Minister in enough trouble. Here we are talking about the Government robbing a few tE!ns of millions f1"om the citizenry of this Province. through its budgetary actions with regard to hydro power rates to consumers. It was bad enough that the Finance Minister would be doing this, but the First Minister of the Province. by his radical actions in the constitutional debate, has put in jeopardy the survival of this Canadian nation.

He was the one who was thE! most radical of all. He was the one who heated the debate to the boiJ.ing point. He is the one that has helped polarize pubJ.ic opinion in this L 21 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI nation. and M.:~.:1ch Lake Ol" any other agreement right now rnay not be able to bridge thE! gap betli.Jeen the two f o u n d i n g p eo p 1 e s i n t hi s country and the country may fall apart. Mr. Speaker. My father 1s pension is in jeopardy, and the Minister of Finance 1s $1.5 billion Federal transfers is in j eopal"dy. He can laugh at it aJ.l he wants, and hr:! can make all the chicken jokes that hE! want.s.

You rrd.ght b~:! ab1e to gE!t atAJay wil:h, but tAle are going to try to not J.r:d~ you gE:!t auJC:'IY with. scrounging $10, $20, or $30 million out of the rate payers here and there, Mr. Speai<E:~r. You might be able to get away with changing the policy on automobiles and giving yourselves a car rather than borrowing a Crown car, but you cannot J.ive dou.m losing $1.5 biJ.lion I Mr. Speaking. rhe people of Newfoundland will soon Jearn to be concerned about these matters. I remember during the last FederaJ.

Election, Federal Liberals walked into senior citizens homes on thE! west coast of this Province and what did they say, vote for the Federal Tories you will get free trade, you will lose your pension, and tAJhat did the peopl1:~ in those places do, they votE•d fol" thE! Federal Libli:1ral Party. ThosE! poor places in the nation. Min. Speakel". voted for the FedE!ral Liberals or the FederaJ. Neu.J DE!rnocrats becausE! they were afraid that they would lose the sociaJ. weJ.fare benefits that Joey Smallwood sold Confederation on in this Province. The rnan fought on the losing side, Mr.

Smallwood successfully so1d Confederation to the people of this Province because of Canada 1 s social welfa1n1?. benefi t.s. Now we have a Premier, a first No. 4-0 (Afb:!rnoon) I~ 21

Minister in this Province, who by his radical and intractable stanCE! on the constitution is leading to the breakup of the Canadian nation. And it is going to cost the Minister of Finance not $10 million or $20 million or $30 million, Mr. Speaker, it is going to cost them well in excess of a billion. Then there is no way through his sneaky Budgets he can force Newfoundland Hydro to scrounge up a few extra bucks out of the poo1n people's pockets, Mr. Speaker, no way under the sun. An Han. Member: (Inaudibl e) . Mr. Hewlett : is all they Mr . Speaker. Severance pay, that can throw back at me, An Hon.

Member : Is constitution for sale, is what you are saying? the that Mr. Hewlett: The Constitution, Sir, is not for sale . But our Premier's

interpretation of constitutional matters are not the only view of things in this nation. Unfortunately, to listen to our Premier, he walked into the debate at a very late stage in the game and said, listen you guys I do not J.ike what you have built . I am going to knock it all down . I am going to give you the ultimate solution. A solution right out of a political science first year text book, Mr. Speaker . Some Han. Members: (Inaudible) . Mr. Hewlett: Constitutions, Mr . Speaker--, -c:·-ame from the realm of reality. Politics is the art of the possible. Mr.

Furev: The Constitution comes From the people, not From eleven turkeys in a roorn in a park. L22 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Hewlett : Th e han. the Minister is cal1ing his First Minister a turkey , Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Finance is preoccupied with chickens, and the Minister of Development is preoccupied with turkeys. Heaven helps us, Mr. Speaker. They wE~re awful quiet over there when the Premier was there today because the Premier is extremely uncomfortable. The Premier stands a good chance of being Uw odd rnan out in this nation .

ThE• Plnenr:i.,:?r stands a chance of being nailed in the newspap ers and on the television of this nation as being a nation slayer, Mr. Speaker. St. George killed the dragon and Clyde killed Canada. Wonderful stuff, isn't it Mr. Speaker . An Hon. Member: Sit down boy (inaudible) . Hewlett : I will not sit Mr. down. speak . I have a right to stand and Mr . Speaker : Order, please! Mr . Hew lett: The hon. Memb er carn e into my District and tried to take over and I got on thE! radio and told him to stay the heck out of Green Bay, didn't I . I bel.i eVE!

I said on th e radio that Gr·een Bay wa s not big enough for the tlAJ O of us, Mr. Speaker. An Han. Member: You had a gr·eat line (inaudible) . Mr . Hewlett : I have great l.inE!S and the han. Member has great lines now because his First Minister is no longer· in l::he Assembly . When th e Firs t Mini ster was in the Assernbly, ther e a little while ago, they were all just like they t.•.H:1re in church, Mr. Speaker. No. 40 (Afternoon) 1~2 2

An Han. Member: Uery concerned about what was going on. Mr. Hewlett: Of course, he should be very concerned about what is going on because the crisis in this nation to a great extent has been precipitated by himself. An Han. Member: That is stupid. r!l.!: ... :_ .. __ ti§!.~J.-~ ... t .. t : It is stupid rni ne. We had upon two - That. is not stupid. on his part. Not lr:1gitimat.r:1 concet~ns An Han. Member: You do not understand . Mr. Hewlett : I understand very well, I was there for ten years while all of this developed . I watched this get put together. An Han. Member: What developed? Hibernia did not develop.

Mr. Hewlett: Hibernia has not developed, Sir, but the umbrella agreement under which the Minister of Energy is now negotiating was developed by a PC Government in this Province, with the current Prime Minister of Canada. The guy that you guys are all supporting over there, he would not give Bi.ll Marshall a dE:•CE!nt dE!al. HE! gave Bill Mars hall only the deal that the Nova Scotians - An Han. Member: going to sign it. Bi.ll Marshall was An Han. Member: He did not want to overheat the economy . Mr . Speaker : Order, please! Mr. Hewlett: He gave us the deal that the Nova Scotians wanted.

What did the Nova Scotians tack onto the E!nd of thr:dr dr:,al ..... if Brian does bett(,11~ tAle lAJant it, too. L23 May 2'l· , 1990 Uo1 XLI Some Hon. Membet~s: B:Lll Mat"S hall didn 1 t want to overheat the economy, remember that? Mr. Hewlett: Mt~. Speaker, the e .. conom-yrTght notAl, believl':1 me, is in no danger of overhE!at.ing. The Constitution, Mr. Speaker, is overheated, thanks to the First Minister of this Province. We had two provinces which had problems with the Meech Lake Accord. We went through an E!lE!Ction in t:.l'd.s Province.

Meech Lake lAJas not mentioned; it. tAJas not par' L of the political agenda during that election. All of a sudden we qet a new Premier, and what do we have? ME!ech Lake is, all of sudden, a pt~edorninant concet"n of every Newfoundlander, and th(:' rnost radical and the most difficult person to please in the entire First Ministers 1 congregation is Reverend Wells. Too bad! Mr . Furey: (Inaudible) church metaphors like that? using . ~...!: . ..:. ________ HE!.~l§!Jj;: I use the church metaphor, Mr.

Speaker, bE!CaUSE! when I watched them over there today, their quietude, their sombt"e looks, reminded II"IE! of wht:1n I went to church. Mt" . Furey_: Back to t. h r:• Lt:1gislature now. An Han. Member : Do you ~~o to church now? Mr. Hewlett: It reminded me of and you how you had to be pious attentative and quiet while at"e :in church. Mr . Hearn : Examining consc i encE:1S . thE!ir' Mr. HetAJlett : Yes, as the hon. l:.he ME!lTtbet" for St. Mary's -·· T hE~ Capes says, at a t.irne lAJhen you lAJetne No. 'W (Aftet"noon) r~2 3

inward looking, examining your conscience. And I think the Premier today was examining his conscience, Ml~. Speaker, because he realizes he stands a tremendous risk with his radical stand on Meech Lake. It might be popular what he is doing in the short term, but if the Canadian nation falls apart nobody is going to care if he is right. Mr. Speaker, because we are going to lose our pensions. we are going to lose our family allowances. Some Hon. Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Hewlett : The Minister of Finance is going to lose his $1.5 billion in transfer payments. They do not like it, Mr. Speaker.

When I say it. they do not like it. The worst rocks they can throw at me is my severance package. Keep tht~owing. Ml~. Speaker. Keep throwing. Some Han. Members : Oh, oh! An Han. Member : An apologist for Mulroney. Mr. Hewlett : Mr. Speaker, I am no apologist for Mr. Mulroney. An Han . Member : Oh, yes, you are! Mr. Hewlett : Oh, no I am not. Mr . Speaker. There arE! many policies of the Federal Government, under Pierre Tt~udeau and undE!r Brian Mulroney and und1?.r Joe Clark. that I did not agree with. Mr. Furey: Tell us about them . Mr.

HetJJlett: I do not aql~ee tAli th -EF!e···- ·--w-a~/-··they have handled the fishery. You people do. For months in this Assembly you people have said, 'We are pleased with the way the FE!dS are handling thE:' fishE:~ry.' You babbled it: on and L24- May 24 ·. 1990 Vol XLI on and on. I worked For Brian Peckford when hE! went to war' with Joe Clark over the Fishet~y. I tJJorked for Bl~ian Peckfot~d lAJh«::'n IH! went to war with Pierre Trudeau over the fishery, I worked for Brian Peckford when he went to war with Brian Mulroney over the fishery. Mr. Murphy: Who won the war? Who won the war? An Hon.

Member: The ME·rnbE•I"S (inaudible). Mr. Hearn: Right on! Exactly! Mr. Furey: I am You were working unemployment topped cent. waiti.ng sti .ll. fat~ him tJJhen off at 24 · pE!r Mr. HetJJlett: I tJJorkE•d F o t~ Bt~ -Lan Peckford when we went through a worldwide recession, Sir. There is no worldwide recession right now, but the economy of this Province is getting into a recesston, Mr. Speaker. rhe world is not into one. An Hon. Member : (Inaudible) recession. Mr. Hewlett: I worked for the PrE:~mier when the E!ntirE:' IAJE!S t.et"n world was in a recession. I mean, yes. Newfoundland suffer'ed lfiOI"E! than most.

If Canada gets a cold, Newfoundland gets pneumonia. Well, Mr. Speaket~, Canada has 11101~e than a cold; Canada has pneumonia now, Mr. Speaker, so IJJhat does that mE:~an for us? A tr'ip to the mort.uai"Y, Mr. Sp~:!aker, t.hat. is what that means for us. Mr . Hearn : Dr. Clyde Wells' secret vial. the andidote . ~t- .. ~---· H e ~J_§! __ t .. t : We 11, t h E! I" «::' i S n 0 antidote, I do not think. No. LJ.o (Afl:et~noon) R 24 ·

They indicated ouc-;~r thel"e, Mr. Speaker, that Dr. House is going to take six to ten years to do the han. Minister of Deuelopment 1s work and rejuvenate the Newfoundland economy. Mr. Furey: And he does not want severance pay. Mr. Hewlett: Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, we should postpone having an election for several years. I have a fear, Mr. Speaker, that by the time the next Provincial election r·olls around I will not have a District, not unless I run in Mississauga, Mr. Speaker. ~r. MurE..b...Y.: District next worry. You won 1t election, have a don 1t Mr.

Hewlett: You are right I lAiill .n.ot--Fi·a:·-v-e-·--·a:-District, because there will be nobody left. They are all going to be on the Mainland of Canada or in your District, Sir, you are lucky to be in the capital city. But I come frorn a District tJ.Jhere people 1 s UI is running out, they do not have enough stamps for a new claim, there are no Federal programs on the go, there are no Provincial programs on the go. Their only hope is the han. gentleman for Port de Graue, they will go on welfare and get on one of your Community Development Programs.

Now, is n 1 t that the future for an Administration committed to employing people twelve months of the year? An Han. Member: (Inaudible) a pickle factory . Mr. Hewlett: Mr. Speaker, I just wish we coul.d build a pickle factoi"Y. If the Tl"iton plant goes under with anoH1er l"ound of quota L25 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI c u t s , I p r a y to Go d t h a t lAH,~ tAli. 11 have a pickle factory in Triton that will employ 300 people, Mr. Speaker. I do not care if it employs them twelve months of the year, I t.uould just love to have a pickle factory in Triton that would employ them at l.east long enough to get their stamps.

Because right now, with the current sta·te of l:he fishery and the current uncaring manner of that particular crowd opposite, we have nothing to look forward to in Green Bay. Mr. Efford : want a Do you pickle still J"r:~ally factory in (inaudible) . Mr. Hewlett: I will take any kind of a factory right now, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Hearn: At least the p:i. ckl.e brochure was published in Newfoundland to Cl"E!atE! jobs, not outside, as the Minister of Deuelopmr:~nt did. ~.!:..:__!:!.~w lett_ : So , what do they have Severance packages factories. That is to say.

What are this province going next several years, waiting for Mecca Speaker? Ml". SpE!akE!r, l:o thl"OW up? and pickle all they have the peoplE! of to do in l:he whilE! lh1:'y al"e to al"rive, Ml". An Han. Member : sa me thing two ago, my friend. (Inaudible) the and a half years Mr. Hewlett: Well, we arc-;~ asking It now,· M-r. Speakel", because the crowd who promised a r<~!al change are now in office. So let us see some real change whil.e the pE!OpJ.e are still here, beforE! they are either looking to be clients of the Ministel" of Social Sei"Vices Ol" they are moved away to the No. 40 (Afternoon) R25

mainland. We want some change now, not in six years not in ten years time. real time. Some Hon. Members: Hear. hear! Mr. Hewlett: And they laugh over there, Mr. Speaker. I mean, ordinary people out there are suffering, and they laugh. All they talk about is pickle recipes. Well. I only hope to God, Mr. Speaker, that everybody in Grer:~n Bay gr'OlAJS cucumbers this year. and that the han. the Minister of Social Services will send them a householder, with the little booklet, so they can all learn to live off pickles. I remember Marie Antoinette said, Let them eat cake. An Hon. Member: What? Mr.

Hewlett : Let them eat cake, remember? I guess the Minister over there would have them eat pickles. Well. I sincerely hope he is serious Mr. Speaker, that they do open a pickle factory when my fish plant closes down, that they will employ 300 people making pickles, and that Newfoundlanders will learn to live off pickles. There was a study done on the Fishery a little while ago and I think the title was It Would Do Well To Live Mainly Off Fish. The Minister of Fisheries has given up on that concept, now the Minister of Social Services. his thing is let them eat pickles, Mr. Speaker. The pickle, Mr.

Speaker, is over there. They are in a pickle . They are nailing the people of the Province in the Budget with this guarantee fee and with other draconian measures. People are suffering. People do not have work. The Premier is helping to wreck the nation . There is no province in L26 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI this country as dependent on Federal transfers as this particular Province:~. so what a1ne we going to do when the country falls apart? The Premier is going to be sad if Quebec leaves . Well, a sad Clyde Wells is not going to pay my father's pension.

We had to pay him an extra $50,000.00 a year just to be Opposition Leader. So L!.Jhat ts he going to do for the lE!nS of thousands of Ne1..ufoundlandeJ"S on pensions? What is hE! going to do for the ten of thousands of NewfoundJ.anders who dE!pend on the Minister of Social Services getting 50 cent dollars From Ottawa if there is no Ottawa? As I said, Mr. Speaker, they arE! living in a dream world - living in a dream world. Mr. Murphy: ala1nrnist. And you ai"E! an Mr. Hewlett; I arn an alarmist? Someone has to be an alarmist. If you read your Bible, you would have heard about John the Baptist.

Someone has to comE! out of the wilderness and say something to someone. Mr. DoyJ.e: You had bE!tLeJ" hopE! he is an alarm ist . Mr. Hewlett : You had bel:t:eln pi"ay tl1at I am an alarrrd.st, Si.ln. Because if I arn not, the lAJhole lot of you are going to bE! SlAJE!pt out of office, there will be riots down here, there wi11 be mob s in the lobby of Confederation Building looldng for the man thE!Y will call the nation slayE!r ·- Lhe nation slayer, Mr . Speaker. So hope, Mr. Speaker, and hon . gE!ntlernen opposite, hopE! that l am wrong. Because 'if I arn wronq, you might suruive as a political party.

But if I arn right, not No. 4.0 (Afternoon) R26

only will you not survive as a Govr:'rnrnent, the Libera1 Party wiLl. be destroyed in this Province. Nobody was as surprised as you people on election night, when you finally got elected. You came into office, you did not have a clue what to do, you had no plans, except to implement Margaret Thatcher's and Ronald Reagan's right wing free-enterprise policies. Well fine, you are gotng about it, but what in the name of God are we going to do for thr:~ people of the Provine~~ in the interim? An Han. Member : (Inaudible) running for the leadership . Mr. Hewlett : Running for the leader•ship?

I did not know there was an opening, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Doyle: There isn't, either . Mr. Murphy : Do not be surprised when we replace Mulroney . Mr. Doyle: about that . .~I'...:.~.Yl:.PJlY : -Yes? We will see (Inaudible) Quebec . Mr. Hewlett: It is rather ironic the han. gentlemen from St. John's south talks about replacing the cur·rent Pd.me Minis tel". The way things are going right now, Mr. SpeakE!r, the ulU.mate irony is that we could possibly have two gentlemen seeking the office of Prime Minister in the next Federal election, both of them from the republic of Quebec.

I do not even know if they would qualify to run for the office of Prime Minister of Canada, seeing that they are citizens of a foreign country. Quebec is alJ. but gone, Mr. Speaker, and this crotAJd opposite, they gave them thE! shove off t.he ledge at the top of Confedr:~ration L27 May 24, 1990 Vol XLI Building . An Han. Member: that . I can' l·: be1ic:.~vE• Mr. Doyle : stuff . This is VE!ry Sel"iOUS Mr. Hewlett: I rea1ly don't rntnd how unique Quebec gets within its own borders, Mr. Speaker. An Han. Member: You don't? Mr. Hewlett: No . Mr. Murphy : Say that again . Mr. Doyle: You heard it. Listen . Mr.

Hewlett: Are we in the~ uni.on building here? When people send me mail, do they sr:~nd it. to Alvtn Hewlett, MHA, Union Bui1ding? Do they send it to Federation Building? No, Mr. Speake In, they send it to Confederation Building. The PrE!rnier wants · a union, ten provinces a1l exact.ly the same, no changes, everybody exactly alike, just like the Americans. That is the 1neason they ca1l il: l~he Unil:1:!d Stal:E:'S of America. We are the confederal states of Canada, and don't ev1:.>r forget that. Ml".

Trudeau's cons tituti.onal Ud.ng with the Chartel" oF Rights had a tendency to limit the confederal nature of this nation, but the notwithstanding clause was sti11 there to allow the essence of confederalism. This nation was developed as a confederal nation, 'it. is st.:i.J.l a confederal nation, and i f it is ever to survive, it~ to~.Ji.ll have to be a confederal nation. The Prr:~rnier's inabilil":y to accept the confederal nat:ul"e of this count:.r·y ts going to be a contributing No. 40 ( Aftel"noon) R2'7

factor to thrO! dernise of this country, Mr. Speaker. That is rather sad, because it is one of the most civilized countries on the face of the earth. We are not only throwing out the baby with the bathwater, Mr . Speaker, we are throwing out the bathtub, the plumbing, the whole works, all because of one individual 1 s legalistic obsession with rewriting the Constitution of the nation: corning on t.he scene, new kid on the bJ.ock knocks down thE! so--called ugly cons tructtcn and decides to build the country his own way.

Well, one elE!ment is not going to do plain and simple. television last country is on collapse. of the country it Clyde 1 s way, We saw it on night. The the verge of An Han. Member: You don 1 t belieVE! all this, do you? Mr. Hewlett: Yes, I honestly believe all this. I spent ten years in the Premier 1 s Office. I have seen a lot of Quebec, the way they think and the way they act, and they are all but gone, Mr. Speaker. An Han. polls . now. Member: Tell us Talk about about the t.he polls Mr. Doyle: They are probably gone even if Meech passes. Mr. Hewlett: Even if Meech Lake passes as is, Mr.

Speaker, the damagE:~ is done. Sixty--one per cent of Quebecers right now want to separate . The Parti Quebecois, the official separatist party, is ahE!ad of the governing Liberal Party in Quebec. l~obert Bourassa can 1 t budge an inch, or' he tAJi11 be 1._28 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI devoured by his own people . Mr. Murphy: We went through thal: in 1982 (inaudible) . Mr. Hewlett: You went through that in 1982, and Pierre Trudeau and all the rest of your heroes went into Quebec and said, Boys, don 1 t leave. We 1 11 tAJork it out. And the thing they worked out lAJas Meech Lake.

They worked out sornehting called Meech lake. Heaven knows it is not perfect. No constitutional document ever is, Mtn. Speaker. That is lAJhy you have an amending formula. An Han. Member': conspiracy to divide is what it is. It is a Canada, t:hat Mr. Doyle: You have a rE!al nation wrecker over there. There is Min. Hewlett: conspiracy to Speaker. divide Canada, no Mr . An Han. Member: an American. Brian MuJ.roney is Mr. Hewlett: Canada is probably gone, Mr. Speaker. Brian ~~ulroney is a Quebecer, E!Ven as you1n Mtn. Chretien ts a Quebecer. I sec':! he?. is waffling a bit on Meech Lake these days . Because Mr .

Chr~~ t.irO'n knows that if he wants to be Prirne Minister of Canada, assutrring l:.hE!rE• is a Canada COrriE! thE~ nE~xt FE•ciE!Ina]. election, he has to lAiin sr:Jal:.s in Quebec. And thE!rE! is no way on the face of God 1 s green earth that John C h r~tien is going lo win seats in Quebec - An Han. Member: Who are you speaking for today? Mr. Hewlett: I arn speaking for Canada, Mr. Speaker . No. tW (A Fte1nnoon) R28

An Han. Member: You are speaking for yourself. You are certainly not speaking for your constituents. An Han. Member: not. No, indeed he is Mr. Hewlett: I am speaking for Canada, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Doyle: In ignorance there is bliss, boys. Mr. Hewlett: You people don't thin·k·· ·-a:t:·····-aiJ. Remember the jokE! that: is on the go a1l aCI"OSS this great capital city of ours? The Premier and his Cabinet go out to dinner. You people don't think at all. The joke that's on the go in this capital city, you can hear in all the public areas: The Prr:~mier and his Cabinet go out to dinner.

The waiter says, ·sir, what will you have? The Premier says, H-m--m, the roast beef looks good. Very good, Sir. And what about the vegetables? Oh, they wi1l have roast beef, too, says the Premier. That is the joke making the rounds of this capital city, and if I were a Minister in that Government, I wouldn't feel good about that joke. I wouldn't feel good about that joke at all. An Hon. Member: ago? (Inaudible) years ~r. _ _, ___ Q.Q_y_1_~: Ask the vegetables. Mr. Hewlett: I didn't make that up. I make up a few poems in this Legislature, but I didn't make up that joke, Mr. Speaker.

That joke is making the rounds of the capital city and it says a lot. It is a terrible editorial comment on a new administration. An Han. Member: ever USE!d. First time it lAJas L29 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Hewlett: First time it was ever used? I have heard it a dozen times recently, Mr. Speaker. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, thE!re is no convincing them. They think it is okay to rob the people of their money. They won't do it. officially :in a Budget, they t.~.Ji11 get Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to do their dirty work.

Their position on the Constitution is so radica1 and so tntracl:abl,:! that thc~!re is pr'obab1y no rnlcld1e ground. If the Premier and his other colleagues, the First Ministers, carnE• to sornE! accommodation before the Meech Lake deadline, it t.~.Jill on1y occur if Clyde Wells backs down. Quebec will die before the distinct society clause goes in the

preamble, and it can only occul" if Clyde Wells backs down. And I would irnplore the people, especial1y in the Cabinet over there, talk to your Premiel" and advise him to back down. Save the nat i o n . 0 the l"lAJi s e , as I e n d E! d u p saying the other day, the batU.e cry of the impoverished people oF NetAJfounclland and Labrador 1.u:i 11 bE• a11 is well that ends Wells. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sorne Han. Members: 1-lt'ar, ht~ar! Mr. Speaker : The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. the If the han. Minister speaks now, he ends the debate. The hon. the Mernber For Fogo. Some Hon. Members : was recognized . fhe Mints l:er Mr. Winsor: Mr. Speaker, I not intend to take

part in debate, but after watching performance of the Government No. 11.0 (Afternoon) d.-i.d l:.his t.he lAJi l:h R29

the Premier out of his chair - An Han. Member: Alne you 1neading? Mr. Winsor : reading. No, Sir. I am not An Han. Member : wants to. He can read if he Mr. Winsor: The Minister of Finance, he must have realized the puppet master, Jim HE!nson, is dead, becaus~"! I watchr::~d him across thE:~ !-louse and I clon 1 t know if hE! is trying for Kermit 1 s job, because he has been over like this. All the while the han. the Member for Green Bay was speaking, he spent his time like this. I do not know if he was trying for a job on the Muppet Show, doing that puppet stuff for Kermit . An Han. Member: You are reading . Mr.

Winsor: Reading what? What do you want to see? Mr. Efford: (Inaudible) . Mr. Winsor : The Minister of Social Services was unusually quiet during that particular debate, and it is unusual for that Minister to be quiet. It is not a thing hE! can do, but I suspect he saw the Evening Telegram today and saw the demands that he apologize for some statements he made earlier. The PlnE:Hnier has probably now told him, you better be careful and not talk anymore. Mr. Efford : standing Uwre do. And you will be some spell before I Mr .

Winsor ; The MNnber for Exploits, when l:he Premier was out of the House, boy he was defE!nsive today. He tAJas certainly going to defend, I do not know what. He 1..30 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI seemed to be under considerable pressurE! to have SOITIE!thing to say, enough that the President of Treasury Board had to come back into the House to take OVE!r, because everything was kind of running on the rocks over there. Well, I want to make a fetAl comments on the Bill, th~;:! 1 per cent Hydro will have to pay back on their guaranteed loan.

The Minister knows that one of the things Newfoundlanders hate most is to go to the past oFfiCE:' on a particular day of the month, get their light bill, tear it op1c•n and find out that light bills have gone up another $10. I mr::'an, that is the reality of it, that Newfoundlanders are sick and tired of going to the post officE!, opening their mail and finding - I think it lAiaS in Febi"Ui:'li''Y Oln Ma1nch tl1at eve1ny house I went tnt:o Lh1:> standard comrnE!nt was, How much has your light bi.11 gone up this month? That was a cornrnon complaint throughout the Province.

And ·nolAJ the Mi.nist:e1n has, through the .introduc t.ion of this bill, put another bu rden on the taxpayers of this Prov·ince For a number of years. Hydro rates will continue to go up. And what is E:'ven 1nore alarming about this is Lhat the potential. in thi.s is kind of unlimited. Bt:~cause I think sornE! time ago thE:~ Minis t~:~1n indicat.1~d to me in a conversation that this Province has pretty well reached its maximum potential to produce electricity and tJJe might have to get into building more thel"mo-fired energy sourcr::'s.

That being the case, then, oF course, the guaranteed loan is going to go up subs l:anU.alJy, which ITII':!dns th~~ Province is gotnq to havE• to h:'lke more rnonli:'Y from Hydr·o tJJhich wi 1J. No. 4-0 (After·noon) 1no

pass it on to the taxpayers of this Ptnovince. And to compound it for the poor old Newfoundlanders out there who have tried to make ends meet, the Minister of Forestry announced he is now going to impose restrictions on where they can · cut firewood. It has always been there, but he is going to do even more now, he is going to have them harvest wood stands - I think it was juniper and alders. or alders and aps he suggested Newfoundlanders would now resort to burning. Mr. Matthews: GestapQ tactics . Mr. Winsor: Gestapo tactics .

That, of course, was on top of the money the Minister took last year when he phased out the pou..Jer subsidy, took $30 million. The catch-line they had was, take it from the taxpayers and pass it on to the ratepayers. Of course the question is, are not the ratepayers taxpayers as well? So, we have a double whammy and instead of $30 million, this ends up being $60 million. Then, of course, our infamous payroll tax is set at what rate this year? - 1. 5 per cent. Is there any provision in that tax that next year it will not go to 2 per cent, and 2. 5 per cent, maybe, the YE!ar after?

We could be looking dotJJn the road to a point in time when Hydro, as the Minister said, will not be going before the Board. But it could very well have to. Because if the Minister of Finance gets his way, indiscriminately taxing, not really sure what he is going to do, then we could, for a long time, continue to have to pay increased light and power bills as the demand for electricity in this Province goes up.

And to Minister L31 compound it, of Energy May 24, 1990 as l:he knows, Vol XLI relations with Quebec are now quite sour and the power that needs to come from Churchill is quite a long, long, ways off, and is certainly not going to do anything to lower the electricity rates in this Province. Perhaps this might be the thin edge of the wedge for all Government guaranteed loans, to now have to chip a little bit into the coffers of the Province to balance the Budget. I see the would-·be Jim Henson successor is back in his seat now.

That was a g1neat. imitation. fhe Minister of Finance was out of his seat when I started, but I oFfetned you a new job, Sir. After watching your performance the other day, I offered you a job on thE! Muppet Show. Jim Henson has died, and with all those motions you were making across the House, I did not know but you were trying to get the job. An Han. Member: This is a serious Bill . Mr. Winsor: It is Bill. Newfoundlanders concerned about it, too. a SE!Inious are quite An Han. Member: What a tertnible thing to say. rhe man just passed away and you are saying sornE!thing like that. An Han.

Membetn: We won•t be able to afford to watch the Muppet Show . Mr. Winsor: That is right. You won•t: be able to wa·tch tht::~m. People will not bl'::~ able to afford to put their televisions on because light bills will be too high, if the Minister oF Finance continues dE:~rnanding. ThE:~ Minister of Energy did not want to do this, you knou..J. The Minister of Energy u..Jas forced to do this by the Minister of Finance. HE! said. you No. 40 (Afternoon) IB1

have to go out and get me more money, c1aw anothE!r fetAl dollars out of the taxpayers. I suspect he went to him and said, do not pass that on to Hydro. The Minister of Finance said no, we will not do that. Then, when his officials got it, everyone was included. Dr. Kitchen: This is going to pay for the Fogo ferry . Mr. Winsor: No . it IAJill not pay fotn the Fogo fetnry. There is $25 million neE!ded to pay For the Fogo ferry and that will not take care of it. An Hon. Member : the Fogo ferry lower the rate . We will take back and then we will How about that? Mr. Winsor: ferry? No . not.

Take back the Fogo Obviously, you are Dr. Kitchen: Then how are we going to pay for it? Mr. Winsor: You can take the allowance back from the Ministers For the cars. If you want to take something back, take back your $8,000. You just got an allowance . An Hon. Member: What about taking your $7,500? Mr. Winsor: You can have it, Sir, and apply it to the poor of the Province you have burdened with extra taxes. An Hon. Member: We had to burden them with extra taxes to give you $1 tnillion for water and sewerage this year. Mr. Winsor : Don't the Fogo deserve $1 million and sewerage?

Under equity and balance, do L32 May 24, 1990 people of for watE!r fairness, not Lhe Vol XLI people of Fogo Island deserve $1 million? Is that the kind of Government we are seeing here? Some Hon. Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Winsor : Sure, and he should give them more. But, by the same token, we do not slap it on the light bills of the poor of the Province.

In conclusion, I lAJC:tnt t.o caution the Minister to bewarE! of l:he Minister of Finance, sin ce year afte1n year he could be going l:o him looking for more money, and ask him to protect the poor' of l:he Province, the ratepayers who are the taxpayers. and keep light bills in tune for them . Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. If he speaks now, he closes debate . Dr. Gibbons: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. I arn going to stick to the essence of this Bill. I have heard the rhetoric, but little of substance was raised in the debate today or the debatE! ttAJo days ago on this particular BilJ..

The essence of the Bill is that on the $950 million prE!SE!nt guc\rantN·d loans For Hydro, they will be paying 1 per cent 01n $9.5 m:i .ll.i.on per year. And this bill allows us to make regulations thereto and Hydro is obligated therefore to pay. Really I am not going Lo say anything further on the issue, I have said all that needs to be said. Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear! On motion. a bill, "An Acl ~ To Amend The Newfoundland And Labrador Hyd1no Acl:., 1.975," l"t'aci a second time, o1~dered ref',::!r·r,:>d to a CommitteE! of th E! Whole Hou se , on No. fi.O (Afternoon) R32

tomorr·ow. (Bill No. 31). Mr. Speaker: The han. the Government House Leader. Mr. Baker: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before mouing the next item of business, I belieue we had agreement earlier that by leaue we could deal with a particular resolution. And perhaps if the Member could read his resolution and maybe take a minute or two t:o say somE:!thinq about it, then the response from the Member for Grand Bank, and then we could, by agreement, pass the resolution, if that is okay with MembE!rS of the House? Mr. Speaker: Do we haue concurrence on this? Some Han. Members: Agrr:'ed. Mr. Speaker: Okay. The hon .

Riuer. the Member for Eagle Some Han. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Dumaresque : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to read into the record the resolution:

WHEREAS as of May 15, 1990 some 1, 100 fishermen ftnorn the Labradotn coast haue their unemployment insurance benefits suspended; and

WHEREAS ice conditions atne the worst they haue been in ouer a decade; and

WHEREAS access to ground is prohibited ice conditions; and the fishery because of WHEI~EAS the Federal GouernrnE!nt has L33 May 24-, 1990 Uol XLI refused to extend these benefits until access to the fishing ground is made probably within four weeks; BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this han. House of Assembly request the immediate reuiew of this decision and implement the necessary extension to the fishermen concerned. Mr. Speaker, it is a straightforward resolution. But: in all its str·a".ighLforwarcii'HC!Ss it cannot take away from the seriousness of the issue.

Some 1,100 people from L1 Anse - au-Clair to Nain, Mr. Speaker, hauE~ no money and they haue to prepare for the corning season and Lhr:1 '.ice conditions prohibit them from doing so. And I do not want. to belabour the issue, Mr. Speaker. I haue indicated on a number of occasions the seriousness and cr:1rtainly in the lasL fetAJ days tAlE! haue gotten an indication of ·thE! Federal Gouernrnent 1 s ignorance of the situation down there, and I a1n happy that the han. House has rni:~de accommodation for this particular resolution today, and I thank all han.

Members for theitn indulgE!nce and their expression of support for it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some Han. Members: Hear, hea1n! Mr. Speaker: The han . the Mernbetn for Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews : Thank you, Min, Speaker. I would just like to stand and support the resolution so ably put: forward by the Member For Eagle Riuer. And I wouJ.d like to say that there are times when you haue great difficulty undet"slanding lAJhy other people do not understand, No. 4-0 ( Af lE! rnoon) R33

and this is a prime case here, that we have a vei"Y serious situation along the Labrador, ice conditions are hampering fishermen from fishing and making a living. They are just asking for consideration from the Federal Government to extent their unemployment insurance benefits until the ice moves out and they can go about fishing and make a living. Now to me that is a most reasonable request and I have great difficulty, like the hon. Member, in understanding why these kind of requests get bogged down in bureaucracy. People do not understand, as the hon. Member as outlined as well. They are ignorant of the facts.

They do not understand the Labrador situation, like many times they do not understand the Newfoundland and Labrador situation. And I just hope, Mr. Speaker, that when Ottawa receives word of this unanimous resolution that they will immediately act, take action and extend the benefits to these people who need it so badly. And I would just like to say to the hon. gentleman that most times when we do these kind of things, you know, nothing happens after.

And we seem to think that !Ale have done our job here and of course we have taken, IAihat I think is the most important thing that we have done today, by the way, Mr. Speaker, what we are doing right now, it 1 s a thing that means something material or concrete to 1,100 or so fishermen and their families, so it is the most important thing that we have done today. I just hope that Ottawa takes action on this particular resolution. I say to the han.

Member that if they don 1 t within a reasonable period of ·Ume then I L34 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI don 1 t think that we, who unanimously passing are now this stop doing then resolution, should let it there, and if it takes us something else together, let 1 s do it. Some hon. Members: Hear, hear! Mr .

Matthews: Just give them a reasonable period of time and if they don 1 t respond then there is one way that - you know having been in Government for seven or eight yeai"S, therE:~ :is one th:in1_1 that I am sure Members opposite know, there is one thing a Government is very sensitive to, and that is adverse pub1icity, so, if that is the case, then I call upon all Members here, that IAiithin a reasonable period of time, if the hon. genth~man is not satisfied with the reception to the resolution, then he should advise us accol"dingJ.y and I.UE• then will jointly do something elsE• to see if we can 1 t nudge the FedE!ral Government to go on about and do what they should do!

WE! arE! not asking anybody in this resolution to do anything that they shouldn 1 t do, we are just asking them to allow 1,100 or 1,200 fishermen and their families to survive for l:he n ex t f o u r or f i v e o r s i x wE:' Ed< s . So we are very pleased, Mr . Speaker, to support the hon. Member and Members opposite in this resoluU.on, and I just pray that the people who can 111ake a difference in this situation wi.J."l make the difference. Thank you very much. Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: Order, please! Is the House question?

All the resolution, rE!ady those in I Aye I • No. 4-0 (Af ·ternoon) for the favour of R34 .

Some Han. Members : Aye. Mr. Speaker: I resolution carried. declare the The han . Leader. the Government House Mr. Baker : The next order of business, Mr. Speaker, is Motion 1. Mr . Speaker : in Reply. Mr. Baker: No . Motion 1. Address Mr. Speaker: Motion 1 . Okay. To moue that the House resolve itself into a Comrni ttee of the Whole on Ways and Means to consider the Raising of Supply to be granted to Her Majesty. The hon. East. the Member for Humber Ms Verge : Thank you, Min. Speaker.

Before I get into my comments on the Budget, I would 1 ike to reiterate my support for the Federal Government extending UI benefits for people engaged in the fishery in different parts of our Province where the fishing season is delayed bElcauSE! of ice. There was some controversy here, a week or so ago after the Member For Eagle River circulated a letter over his signature addressed to the Federal Minister of Employment and Immigration responsible for Unemployment Insurance which I did not sign. The Member complained about that.

I stood in my place at l~he first opportunity and pointed out that I had written my own letter to the Federal Minister, and my not signing the Member 1 s letter was in no way an indication of my lack of support for the cause. I also pointed out that this is not a new L35 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI problem, in fact it is a perennial problem. Most years in our Province, in the northE.~Jnn coas l:.al regions on the northt:1rn pE!ninsula of the Island and on the coast of Labrador, the fishing season doesn 1 t start until after UI benefits have run out and people engaged in the fishery in those regions suffer.

Repeatedly in past years Members representing those Districts have made representations to the Federal Government, to Federal Governments of both political stripes to change the unemployment insurance regulations to recognize the reality of the fi shing conditions in our Province . My colleague, the Member for Torngat Mountains, who began his career in this Chamber· as a Liberal Opposition Member, has been battling this fo1n E<lelJen years now, and today he is in Ottawa, meeting with the Federal Minister of Employment and Immigration, making representations once again.

He represents the northernmost constituency in the ProvinCE!, and his constitUE:1nts have E•ndurl:!d Lhe greatest hardship because of the unemployment insurance regulations . Po:oople on the norl~h coa st of Labrador don 1 t think thE:'Y wi 1.1. be able to start fishing this year until around the bE •ginning of July. It seems as though the icE ~ there won 1 t cJ.ear until about the 1st of July.

So this is a long-standing problem and it is good to see the Member for Eagle River raising it in the way he did today, and for a11 Membe1ns l:o unite in making a resolution urging the Federal Government to act now, at long la st, in correcting the regulations . No . 1\.Q (Afternoon) R3S

As I mentionE!d, Ml". SpeakE!r, this inequitable situation has existed not only during the term of the present P.C. Federal Government, but it prevailed during the Trudeau Liberal Administration, as well, during the time that the present MP for Labrador, Mr. Bill Rompkey, was in the Federal Cabinet. Obviously, Mr.

Speaker, much greatE!r E!fFort is going to have to be rnoun ted by people in our Province, leaders especially, to persuade the FedeJ"al GovernrnE!nt to relent and to adjust the unemployment insurance regulations to reflect the reality of fishing seasons throughout our Province, and to acknowledge that fishing seasons differ. The further north you go, generally speaking, the later the start of the fishing season and the greater the need for extension of U.I. benefits. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will turn my attention to the Budget.

I had barely gotten into comments on the Budget whE!n I had to adjourn the debate, and that was some time ago. I doubt if any hon. Members can, by now, recall t~o.Jhat I said then. I was, I believe, referring to the Liberal campaign brochure distributed to each household in the Pl"ovince dur·ing last spl"ing' s election campaign . It was a slick, glossy, full-colour production, featuring a picture of the present Premier on ·the cover, with the slogan, 'Liberal -· a Real Change.' Inside the brochure, Mr. Speaker, was thE! i tE!mized Liberal platform, the 'real change' platform .

As I commented absolutely no constitution. Lake Accord do document . before, thE!re was mention of the The words Meech not appear in l:his L36 May 24-, 1990 Vol XI..I Mr. Speaker: OrdE!I", plE!aSE!! I wonder if the han. ME!rrtber would just allow rne to announce the questions for the Late Show this afternoon before she continues with her debate? I am not satisfied with the response given today by the Minister of Fisheries in response to my question about the storm damage done by this weeks's stOJ"m. That. is the hon. the Minister for Fogo.

I arn not satisfied with the answer given to my question rE! l::h1~ ll:!ase payments by the han. the MinistE!r of Fisheries, and I would lib>. it to be placed on the Late Show. The hon. the:~ Member for St. Mary's -The Capes. I am not satisfied with the answer to the question I asked the Minister of Fisheries today. I would like to debate the same on the late show. That was the han. Member for Port au Port.

The hon. the Member for Humber East. 1'1.§..._\L~ . .r._g_~ : A s I w a s rn E! n t i o n i n g .i n this Liberal 'real change' election brochure is the i terni.zed Li.bE!raJ platfOI"JTI undE!I" thE! hE!Ciding Education: .it says a Liberal Government will provide students with equal educational opportunities regard1ess of where they live in the Province, and reform the school tax system to make it more efficient and equitable. Mr.

Speaker, people lAJho bEd:i.E•vecl those elect-.ion cornrnil:rnE:'nl:s t.uE!J"e absolutely shocked to discover', when the opposition ferreh'd this out of the Mi.nistE•r of F-inance's budg(d: document, that. it rnalu~s no provision for the continued No . 4-0 (Aftt:-rnoon) 1n6

operation outside St. of hospital John's. schools Mr. Speaker, for years now l~he Department of Education has employed teachers at regional hospitals in the Province at the Janeway Childrens Hospital in St. John's, the Central Newfoundland Hospital in Grand Falls, Western Memorial Regional in Corner Brook, and Curtis Memorial in St. Anthony. This budget, Mr. Speaker, allotAJS For l~he continu1:1d employment of all thirteen teachers at the Janeway in St. John 1 s but dt1nies any funding for ongoing schools at the other hospitals. Ml".

Speaker, this Government has decided to close all the hospital schools outside St. John's. Now, how does that fit their election commitment to provide students with equal educational opportunities regardless of where they live in the Province? It is absolutely shocking, Mr. Speaker. We discovered, Mr. SpE!aker, that in making this decision neither the Minister of Finance nor his colleague and comrade, the Minister of Education even consulted the people involved. Nobody in this Government asked the teachers they are employing, as ked thE!

NetAJfoundland Teachers Associat".ion, asked the hosp-.i.tal administrators concerned, asked school boards or the Association of School Trusties about the value of the hospital schools or the impact on young patients of closing these schools outside St. John's. Mr. Speaker, by all indications the decision to cut funding of the hospital schools outside St. John's was a panic budget decision similar to the decision to L37 May 24-, 1990 Vol X 1..I implernl'::1nt the pc.'\yJ"oll t.ax. Tht::H'e does not seem to have been any thought put into it, and tAJe know for a fact the people involved were not asked about it. Mr.

Speaker, the hospital schools are essential for the education and well being of young patients at the regional hospitals, patients who arl'::' treated both as in-patients and out-paU.enl~s for a considerable period of time. Ml". SpE!akeJ", in att.emptin~J t.o justify the decision the M:inistE•J'·· of Education hclS given a vaJ"tety of excuses. In one intervietAJ he said that since somc:1 hospitaJ.s in the Province do not have school.s, he could not rationalize continuing to employ teachers at Central, Wc:1stet"n, and CUJ"tis in St. Anthony. NotAl, Mr.

Speaker, by irnp1ical:.:ion the Minister is saying that to equalize he is going to downgrade, he is going to take atAJay sE•rvices so that nobody will have them. But, Mr. Speaker, h1'::1 is continuing to make provision For employing thirteen teachers at the Janeway in St. John's. So, theJ"e seems to be a double standaJnd. OnE! standaJ"d for th1'::1 capital, and anotheJ" standard foJ" LhE• J"est. of the Province. In expJ"ess.ing some concern about deficiencies in some parts of rural Newfoundland, he has decided to address them by taking atAJay sei"V:ices at th1"ee oF the regional centers. Ml".

Speaker, another excusE• the Minister of Education gave is that school boards could adequately handle these pJ"oqr·ams. Yet, l:.he Minister has not consultE!cl schoo1 boards, his staff hi::td not consulted school boards up to a week OJ" so ago, and schoo1 boaJnds have the:ir hands fuJ.l wi. th thejT No. ti.O (AFternoon) 1n7

current responsibilities. School boards a1"e strec tched to the ltmi t to deliver their ongoing services, and because of the budget cuts For school boards, boards will have greater stress in meeting their current mandates. There is no way, Mr. Speaker, school boards are going to be able to pick up the hospital schools unless the Minister turns around and gives l:.hem equivalant resources to what he is taking atAJay r·rorn the thr'ee regional hospitals. Dr. Warren: Just wait and see . Ms Verge: The Minister is saying just IAJait. and see.

Well, I will tell the Minister that I am waiting, as are teachers, as is the Newfoundland Teachers• Association, as are school boards, as are hospital administrators, as are pediatricians, as are pediatric nurses, as are child psychologists, and as arE! members of the public who may be in need of these services. Ml". Speake!", the other excusE! the Minister gave, and this was the flimsiest one of all, he was l"eally grasping at stl"aws when he carne up with this one, was that the Department•s Home Tutor Program would be an appropriate replacr:1ment. As rny colleague F1"om Fogo said, that is shocking.

Thc::1 Home Tutor Progr'arn is flawed; it was nE!ver ITIE!ant to SE!rve hospital patients, its set up under regulations that allow a maximum payment of $150.00 a month per student. Now, Mr.Speaker, Your H on o u r , h a v i n g wo r k e d i n the f i e 1 d of education, will realize that teachers • salary scales, which a1"e set through the collective bargaining process, far, far exceed $150.00 a month.

Some s u b s t i l:. u t e t e a c h e I" s IAii t h s u p e I" oi. o r qualifications and experience earn L38 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI $150.00 a dc,1y, yEd:. l:.he Department•s home tutor regulations perrni t a rnaxirnurn outlay of $150.00 a month For a student. Furthermore, Mr'. Speaker. the regulations say that the Department is not to entel~tain an application until a student has been out of school for two IJJE!eks. The administrative arrangement for processing applications is such that it takes at least another week for approval to be given.

So in a typical situation where there is an application Fol" a hornE:' tutor, the student is out of school thi"E!E:1 weE:1ks bE!fOI"E:1 a tutor is lim1d up. Mr. Speaker, the Minister•s attempt to placatE! thE! pubJ·:ic by telling them the Home futor Program wi11. replace the hosp:ital schools in the regional CE!ntei"S is unbecoming this Minister.

This Minister, with his background at the university Education Department and with his expel"ience IJJorking on val"ious GovernmE!nt task forces and commissions, knows better than most educators in thE• Province that he has no subs l:it.ute for the regional hospital schools, and its t.i.me For hirn to adrnit that the Govel"nrnE:~nt made a rni stake and reins tat:o Lhe funding for l:he hospital schools.

Since he believE!S there are ol:her hospitals in the Province which are being shortchanged, then it is incumbont upon him and his colleagues to find the resources to :i.n1prove t.he services at those other hospitals. Mr. Spc::1aker. thel"e seerns to be a rnyth, wtlich the MinisLel" has contributed to, that only the Janeway Hospital serves children. In fact .. all the hospitaJ.s in the;! PI"OVince have young patienl:s. nle regional hospitals have young No. tW (Afternoon) R38

people as inpatients for extE!nded periods of time. The Minister probably knows this, although he hasn•t said it publicly, but Western Memorial Regional Hospital has almost half as many admissions of children and adolescents as the Janeway Hospital in St. John 1 s. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, Western Memorial has seueral hundreds of young patients for stays of fiue days or more in the run of a year. The Minister•s Department has employed two teachers at Western Memorial for several years. The program was started when I was Minister actually, it was probably ten years ago.

One of those teachers works on the pediatric ward of thE! hospital teaching young inpatients, working with them so they keep up with thc"::1ir school t.uork during l:heir hospit.al stay. Obviously, that has an educational benefit, but the medical staff and thE! nursing staff of the hospital are quick to add that it has a health aduantage as well; it is desirable for young people who are hospitalized for extended stays to have the stimulation that comes from programmed structured study, and that stimulation aids in their healing. Mr.

Speaker, the sr:"!cond teacher at Western Memorial WOI"ks as part of a team called the Child and Adolescent Guidance Service, CAGS is the acronym. That tc::,am comprises, in addition to the Department of Education teacher, a child psychologist or two, I believe one or two pediatric nurses, and possibly a nutritionist. The team deals primarily with young people who are outpatients, young people tAli th emotional problems and, in some cases, tAiith mental illnE!SS, who b(:!nefi t grE:'atly from the team 1..39 May 24-, 1990 Vol XLI appr'oach. Ml".

Speai<c"::'l", the cJ.-i.E'!ntE!lr:~ SE!t"VE!cl by these teachers are transient and perhaps for that reason we have not heard a great public uproar yet. I would suggest that if the clientele were constant, if they were fixed, that the parents and the young people would be protesting vigorously. But the clientele of Lhe regional hospital schools is transic"::'nt.. Most young people, thankfully, are hospitalizr:H:I only onCE! and fet..1..!, "if any, people ·in the Province E!XpE!Ct their turn is coming.

Hospitalization of a young person is just -about alt.~Jays unE~xpectE!d and, therefore, we have not SE!t;!n a great public protest YE!t. But it is incumbent upon this Gover·nrnE!IlL and thr-.:1 MinistE!r of Education in particular, to be sensil::iV(! to l:ht:! needs of people who are vulnet"able, people lAJho do not: have thE! capacity or the fot"E!Sight to demonstrate or protest when they are negatively impacted by a Government decision. Mr.

Speaker, l.·.his decision to close the regional hospital schools is particularly upsetting to the people affE!Cted and tAJho do appreciate the loss, t.uht:'n they look at the rnake-··UP of the pt~e·sent GovPrnrnE!nt, LJ..Jht::~n they look at l..ht;! educational experience of the present Ministor· of Education, when they think the Minister of Finance is an educator lAJho had cl lengthy career at Lhe Education Department of l:he Univer·sil:y, when they realize the Minister of Ernployn 'H::>nt and Labour Relations "is a fol"ITIE!r PrE!sident of the Newfoundland reachers• Association, and the Premter•s Parliamentary Secretar·y is a Past President of the NTA.

Why wou1d a Government. tAri.Lh l:his make --up takt? atAJay regional hospital schoo1s and No. 11-0 (After·noon) rn9

deprive thoSE! vital education and health services to children? Mr. Speaker, these people do not even seem to care. So the election commitment of equalizing educational opportunity in the Province obviously was not a serious commitment, it was lip service. There has been reverse action. The other education commitment in this brochure t.uas a revielAJ of thE! school tax system. Mr. Speaker, what are they waiting for? They have been in office for more than a year. They brought down two Budgets. The present Minister of Education did an exhaustiVE! anaJ.ysis of educational financing through two exercises.

What more review is required? All l:hey have done, Mr. Speaker, is give people the impression that school taxation is not vital, which has d'iscouragE!d people from paying school taxes and driVE!n up the accounts receivable rate of the authorities, and they have imposed the payroll tax for post-secondary education and health. They are giving us not one but two school taxes, Mr. Speaker. Consistent with their smug attitude, which we are seeing displayed here this aFternoon, in the Budget they are proposing to eJ.iminate the Office of the Ombudsman.

Now the excuse they have given is that they can't afford to pay two hundred and thirty-odd thousand a year for the Ombudsman and his staff to deal tAtith complaints oF the people of the Province against the Government. They seem to think they aren't going to make any mistakes or, if they are inclined in that direction - Mr. Speaker: Order, please! L4.0 May 24., 1990 Vol XLI The hon. Member's time has elapsed . Ms Verge: Oh, too bad! Mr·. Speaker, may I just finish this sentence? In

summary, Mr. Speaker, they are doing a great disservice to the people of the Province who need the ser·vice of an independent watchdog, and thEdtn claim - Some Han. Members: No leave. Mr. Speaker: Order! Order! I don't 'l:h'.i.nk the hon. ME:1mber has the leave of the House . Ms Verge: - their claim about needing to save rnoney is a fa1se economy . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The hon . thE• Member for Kilbride . M1~. R. AylLIJard: Thank you ver·y much, Mr. Speab:!r'. [ arn VE!l~y disappointed to see that Members