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November 29, 2016

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Nov-29 (PDF)

L036 - Tue 29 Nov 2016 / Mar 29 nov 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 29 November 2016 Mardi 29 novembre 2016

Orders of the Day

All Families Are Equal Act (Parentage and Related Registrations Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’égalité de toutes les familles (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes)

Putting Consumers First Act (Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 donnant la priorité aux consommateurs (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la protection du consommateur)

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Highway tolls

Mining industry

Hydro rates

Hydro rates

Ontario economy

Smart meters

Pork industry

Consumer protection

Agri-food industry

Senior citizens

Hydro rates

Hydro rates

Assistance to farmers

Ontario Drug Benefit Program

Deferred Votes

Burden Reduction Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’allègement du fardeau réglementaire

All Families Are Equal Act (Parentage and Related Registrations Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’égalité de toutes les familles (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes)

Members’ Statements

Lyme disease

Skilled trades

Ottawa Hospital

Grey Granite Club

Shared services organizations

Tour for Humanity

Wind turbines

Mentoring Juniors Kids Organization

Order of Vaughan recipients

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Introduction of Bills

Computers Mean Business Inc. Act, 2016

Motions

Private members’ public business

Order of business

Order of business

Petitions

Dental care

Alzheimer’s disease

Home inspection industry

School closures

Long-term care

Ice machines

Hospital funding

Secours aux sinistrés

Wind turbines

Shingles vaccine

Health care funding

Privatization of public assets

Hydro rates

Orders of the Day

PANDAS/PANS Awareness Day Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la Journée de sensibilisation au PANDAS/PANS

Nurse Practitioner Week Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la Semaine des infirmières praticiennes et infirmiers praticiens

Time allocation

Time allocation

Modernizing Ontario’s Municipal Legislation Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la modernisation de la législation municipale ontarienne

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

All Families Are Equal Act (Parentage and Related Registrations Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’égalité de toutes les familles (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes)

Mr. Naqvi moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 28,

An Act to amend the Children’s Law Reform Act, the Vital Statistics Act and various other Acts respecting parentage and related registrations / Projet de loi 28, Loi modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l’enfance, la

Loi sur les statistiques de l’état civil et diverses autres lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I’m very excited, in my capacity as the Attorney General for the province, to speak today on third reading on the proposed All Families Are Equal Act, 2016.

Speaker, this bill would have not been possible without the support and inspiration of many people who have been actively working on this issue. I do want to acknowledge a few people, such as Jennifer, Kirsti, Ruby and Cy Mathers McHenry; Sheila and Justin McHenry; Rachel Epstein, Andy Inkster and Joanna Radbord; Donna McDonagh, Julia Gruson-Wood; Emery Potter and Goldie Gruson-Potter.

Speaker, people in Ontario value diversity and equality. In Ontario, we believe that everyone should be treated equally no matter their race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression. That’s why all parents and their kids need to be treated equally under the law.

Whatever shape a family takes, the most important thing is that children grow up knowing that they have the love and guidance of their parents, a strong and stable place to call home, and certainty about whom their parents are.

I wanted to take a moment to go over why our government introduced this bill and why it is so important that this bill passes as soon as possible. Members of the LGBTQ2+ community must have the same rights as their heterosexual peers: the right to love and marry the person of their choosing, and the right to start and raise a family.

As you may recall from my previous statements in the House, Speaker, the law governing the legal status of a child’s parents at birth has not been substantially changed in Ontario in nearly 40 years. A lot has changed since then. In the year 2016, there’s no one way to start and raise a family. Family structures are more diverse.

Right now, under the law, there are extra burdens placed on certain parents who use assistance to have children. LGBTQ2+ parents often have to spend time and money to be legally recognized as their children’s parents. I’ve heard that this experience can be painful and humiliating for families. That’s not fair and it’s not right. Having a child should be a wonderful time, not a time filled with uncertainty and anxiety.

Speaker, it is not fair to these families that they have to spend their time and their hard-earned money to be legally recognized as their child’s parents. The reality is that our province’s parentage laws are behind the times and do not reflect the diverse, open and LGBTQ2+-proud province that we are.

Let me recap what we are proposing in this legislation if it passes the House. Passing the All Families Are Equal Act would update our laws so that all kids are treated equally, by recognizing the legal status of their parents no matter if their parents are LGBTQ2+ or straight, and no matter if they were conceived with or without assistance. It would not require them to go to court and spend money on lawyers.

If passed, the bill would also allow parents who use a surrogate to have a child to be legally recognized as parents without having to go to court, as long as they have written agreement with the surrogate and have all received legal advice. To help protect the rights of surrogates, this bill, if passed, would also require the surrogate to confirm that she is still okay with giving up the child after it is born.

To support families where a parent chooses to freeze their eggs or sperm when facing a terminal illness, we are also proposing that a court be able to recognize a deceased person as a parent if the surviving parent decides to conceive a child after the death of their spouse or partner.

In recognition of co-parents and multi-parent families, we are proposing to simplify the process of birth registration so that up to four people could be recognized as parents of a child—regardless of how they were conceived—without having to spend time and money going to the courts.

In order to accomplish all of these things, this bill would amend 41 separate acts.

I believe this bill responds to key priorities of our government: to make everyday life easier for Ontarians, to remove unnecessary burdens and costs, and to create a fair society for all.

Speaker, the All Families Are Equal Act, if passed, would amend Ontario’s parentage laws to have gender-neutral language, wherever possible, as well. We’re doing this to make the law as inclusive as possible while recognizing that some families don’t use “mom” and “dad.” I want to be clear, however, that people can still choose to use the terms “mother” or “father” on their child’s birth certificate; to suggest otherwise is false. If this bill passes, people would also have the option of choosing the term “parent” on their child’s birth certificate.

I would also like to take a few moments to thank the many people who have worked very hard to make the All Families Are Equal Act possible. I know there has been a lot of emotion that has been involved. We are talking about families and we are talking about children, which is something that I know we all recognize in this Legislature and across the province.

This bill has been about inclusion. This bill has been about equality. It is about ensuring that all parents, regardless of their background, reflecting the diversity of our province, are able to care and provide love for their children the way we always, always have done. I think that is exciting.

It is highly emotional to know that we are taking this very important step to ensure that we’re recognizing and bringing within the legal framework all families in our province with this beautiful diversity, and that we’re not requiring parents to take any additional extra steps to be recognized as parents; they will be parents by way of right, as a result of these changes, if this legislation passes.

I would first like to recognize Jennifer and Kirsti Mathers McHenry and their children, Cy and Ruby. I believe Cy and Ruby finally made it into the House for the first time. They’re waving at us right now. We want to welcome them both. Give them a big round of applause.

Applause.

It’s always good to see little children in the House, Speaker. I think we should have kids in the House more often.

We worked very closely with Jennifer and Kirsti as we developed the bill, and I want to personally thank them. I would say that I think, during the course of the work we were doing, we became friends. We had some very, at times, tough conversations, at times emotional conversations, but—at least I can speak for myself, Speaker—I’m a better person for it, because I did learn a lot from both of them. I want to thank them for their attention, their love and their care that they gave to this bill.

Both of these women shared their very intense and deep personal stories with Ontarians in this Legislature, the legislative committee and with the media. It’s not easy to share your own personal story in such detail, and they both did that, and they did that for the sole purpose of moving public policy forward in our province, and to make sure that other moms and other dads and other families don’t have to go through the hurdles that they had to go through as they were having and raising these two beautiful children of theirs, Cy and Ruby.

I also would be remiss if I did not recognize the member from Parkdale–High Park for her advocacy and leadership on this very important issue. I want to thank her personally for the passion she brings. The member and I have now had the opportunity to work on many bills together, and it has always been a great delight. The last time, with one of the bills we worked on, I said great things about the member, which I stand by. I found myself mentioned in her re-election campaign material, which is totally fine. I hope she will say some nice things so I can quote her in my materials too.

It just goes to show, Speaker, that despite what people see on camera during question period, actually members across the aisle do work together, with each other, because we’re all driven by the same purpose every single day, which is to make our province a better place to live. So we probably agree more than disagree, and this bill is a great example of that kind of agreement, that kind of unison in voices in making sure that we move forward with a very fundamental human rights issue.

I thank the member for all her work, as well as many other individuals and organizations who participated in the formation of this bill over the past few months. And of course I want to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Social Policy for their hard work on this bill as well.

Speaker, I don’t plan to talk too long, so I want to make some concluding remarks, and that is to say that this piece of legislation, the All Families Are Equal Act, would help ensure that all children are treated equally by recognizing the legal status of their parents, no matter if their parents are LGBTQ2+ or straight or if they are conceived with or without assistance. Our government is calling on every single member of provincial Parliament to vote in support of this bill.

It is important for all members of this Legislature, new and old, to show their support for the LGBTQ2+ community and the values of diversity and equality that are so important to Ontario by voting for this bill. We want this important piece of legislation to pass as quickly as possible, which is why the government will not be putting up any more speakers.

Thank you, Speaker, for the time, and I look forward to hearing the comments of other members.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Further debate?

Mr. Randy Hillier: It’s important that we are engaged in this discussion, in this debate on Bill 28, for I feel that it has not been adequately examined in the full details. So I do want to offer some comments during this morning’s debate.

I’ll start by saying that Bill 28 does play an important role in updating Ontario’s laws pertaining to parentage so that they better reflect society’s views on same-sex marriages and the use of new reproductive technologies. It is important that our legislation and our justice system are updated to accommodate these changes in the evolution of societal views and in improvements in technology which enable new circumstances to come into play. Ensuring that same-sex couples and parents who use reproductive technologies are able to be legally recognized as parents without additional hurdles and bureaucracy is an important step in ensuring that all people are treated equally under the law.

I believe that these changes within Bill 28 are wholly justifiable updates to our existing legislation. I find no reason to oppose their approval and am supportive of them. If these changes made up the bill in its entirety, I believe that the Liberal government would have had full support, not only from this Legislature but also from the vast majority of people in Ontario.

However, Bill 28 does more than simply update our laws. It also extends our laws into some unknown and uncharted areas, with consequences unseen. It permits four—or in some cases more than four—people to become parents of a child. It does this while providing no explanation as to the problem this aspect of the legislation is meant to solve. We have not seen or had the opportunity to examine any studies, any empirical evidence of just what consequences may result from that recognition.

Due to the fact that no real objective problem had been identified and that no objective explanation has been put forward, this aspect of Bill 28 has been opposed by many members of the public, from very diverse political and cultural backgrounds. This public confusion is a symptom of the Liberal government’s haste to push Bill 28 through the Legislature and the refusal to spend any time evaluating the effects and consequences such legislation may have.

Because of the emotional nature of Bill 28, it would seem imperative that the government ensure that it be properly communicated and justified, not only to the Legislature, who is tasked with approving it, but to the people of Ontario, whom such legislation will ultimately affect.

What is also worrisome, Speaker, is that this obvious expedience has caused the government to be negligent, I would say, in their task to ensure that the bill is complete and that safeguards exist to ensure its functionality. By putting so much stock into our judicial system to protect the best interests of children, the government has ignored our own responsibility as legislators to craft effective legislation and uphold our responsibilities to protect the children.

It seems that rather than allowing the Legislature to ensure that the proper safeguards and functionality are in place, and that unknown consequences are evaluated, the government would rather quickly throw the burden onto the court system rather than examine these issues ourselves.

Reasonable amendments were proposed at committee to place safeguards into the bill that would close up areas of uncertainty and ensure effective functionality. These amendments included an addition which would ensure that children born through reproductive technologies would be able to access the relevant medical histories of their biological parents in order to ensure they could take

part in effective health planning for their future. This health care information is crucial for any person who wishes to understand potential health issues passed down to them by their parents and is a reasonable method to address a potential issue caused by modern assisted reproductive technologies. This amendment was ruled out of order, and it highlights a perfect example of how the government has not taken the appropriate time to deliberate and review Bill 28 and come to a full understanding of the unanswered questions and potential issues this legislation may pose.

An amendment was also introduced to put a reasonable safeguard on the words “mother” and “father” by ensuring that they would remain as options on government forms such as birth certificates, alongside the option of “parent,” as it is changed in Bill 28. That amendment was voted down by the government and the third party. That amendment was offered up in a response to the government claims that this terminology of “parent” and the terminology of “mother” and “father” would not be removed. We put that amendment in to safeguard its continued use, and it was voted down.

It has caused some public opposition to this bill, that the threat of these identities, “mother” and “father,” may be deconstructed and eliminated in subsequent regulations.

However, rather than ensuring all parents were accommodated in this legislation, it seems the priority was yet again to rush the bill through the Legislature without fully evaluating the consequences. The arguments that were made against this reasonable amendment, as well as the treatment of some of the deputants who were supportive of the amendment, was shameful, to say the least. The people of Ontario who come to this Legislature and to our committees ought never to be subjected to ridicule and malice from those who are elected and charged to listen to their concerns.

It is true that there are aspects of Bill 28 that are fully appropriate and changes that need to take place to bring our parentage laws up to speed with new technology options and social views. For those changes alone, the bill, in many ways, is supportable. However, we did fight for reasonable amendments and safeguards to ensure that unforeseen consequences of Bill 28 could be minimized or mitigated, because it was obvious that questions and risks were not being fully investigated or examined.

The NDP and the government showed no intention to ensure that all views, questions and people were accommodated, and they are responsible for voting down those reasonable amendments. I trust that the government in future will take the time to review the effects this legislation may have on all our families, and in our family courts, and that should negative consequences arise, they find the same expediency and the same courage in correcting any of the consequences that may arise.

When I was putting together thoughts for this morning’s debate, I recalled the comments of our recently departed Clerk, Deb Deller. When she left this Legislature, in her comments that final day, she implored the government to look up to the owl that is engraved in this Legislature, that it represents wisdom, guidance, thoughtfulness. I think the government has lost sight of the owl. Hopefully, as this bill makes its way through society, if there are negative consequences, that wisdom will prevail and courage will prevail to correct any of those failings.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: I’m going to start by making some comments about what we’ve just heard from the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington. Before I get into what I was going to say before I listened to his words here, first of all, I’d like to say that I’m very proud to be part of a Legislature where all views are not accommodated. I’m very proud to be part of a Legislature where racism is not accommodated, where misogyny is not accommodated, and where homophobia and transphobia are not accommodated. I think, in this post-Trump world, it’s incumbent upon all of us to have the courage, and sometimes the ability, to resist those very forces.

We keep in mind that we are debating this bill against a world backdrop where some 80 countries have laws against homosexuality, where many of those countries have the death penalty for those who are LGBTQ2S, where massacres like the one in Orlando still occur in North America, and where the very tenuous rights of LGBTQ2S folk are always and ever under attack. That is the backdrop here.

The very same arguments—that we haven’t thought through all of the ramifications—were made around the fight for equal marriage. Well, guess what? We’ve had equal marriage for a long time now, certainly in this country, and the sky has not fallen. In fact, even at the time that we were hearing testimony around Bill 28, the parent equality act, I saw some of my old adversaries come: the same people with whom I used to debate equal marriage; the same people and their followers who are out at the front protesting advances around sex education in our schools; the same people who actually proffered death threats around equal marriage—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you. Further questions and comments?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Wait a minute, what are you talking about?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Your time is up. This is questions and comments.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Oh, sorry.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Further debate? I recognize now the member from Parkdale–High Park.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: To be continued, Mr. Speaker. Sorry about that.

Again, the same quarter that was responsible for all of that, they haven’t gone away. I think it’s really important for those of us who sometimes feel like we live in a bubble of equal rights—rights that we feel really are equal—that those folk are still out there. Mind you, the good news is, they are not the majority. The majority of Ontarians and the majority of Canadians do support equal rights for LGBTQ2S folk. That means a great deal in the range of policy, and that’s what brings us here today.

A few other things he talked about: the haste with which this bill is going through. No, no: 10 years later. It’s taken 10 years to get here, and I’m going to talk about that. Ten years isn’t fast; it’s a decade. It hasn’t happened quickly.

That we’ve thrown the burden back on the courts: absolutely not. In fact, it’s the reverse: The courts have thrown the burden on us. The courts demanded of this Legislature that we act because the law was so clearly discriminatory.

That “parents” is actually the appropriate legal term: There’s nothing revolutionary about that. Guess what? Even after the parent equality bill passes, there will still be mothers and fathers. Who knew? It’s amazing. There will still be mothers and fathers even after parent equality is passed, and they will be acknowledged as such.

His question—we’ve heard about this: four-parent families and how this is a completely revolutionary idea. Well, I can tell you that every divorced heterosexual couple who then remarries is a four-parent family. And heterosexual couples who have divorced and remarried, where children spend some time at one household and some time in another—they already have four parents. This is not a social experiment. This has been going on for as long as marriage has been going on. Mr. Speaker, this is just equality we’re talking about, so that LGBTQ2S communities can also experience, legally, four parents.

But that’s not the issue, really. That’s not what he’s really speaking about, and not who he’s speaking for and to. Who he’s really speaking for and to is that drum beat of a voice coming out of the fundamentalist religious right. I can say that I’ve been fighting that voice for decades. In fact, I’ve been fighting that voice for 45 years.

I’m a United Church minister by trade, and 45 years ago, in 1971, I was proud to be the only woman who signed on to We Demand, which was the first gay rights demonstration in Canadian history on Parliament Hill, when homosexuality was still illegal. In 1971 we also had the first gay pride. Contrary to some opinions, it was a big picnic over at Hanlan’s Point. I have the pictures to prove it. It was a celebration of all things LGBTQ2S—well, just “gay” back then.

In the 2000s we saw, of course, the struggle for legalized same-sex marriage. I was proud to marry two wonderful women in my church using the systems of banns that Brent had started. I submitted it to Thunder Bay, and it became the first legalized same-sex marriage because one of the clerks in Thunder Bay thought that Paula was a male name. A little bit of gender confusion there; it was great. So we got that, and that was the first legalized same-sex marriage in North America, actually.

Then I got elected. One of the first bills that I proposed was Toby’s Act, to add gender identity and gender expression to the Ontario Human Rights Code, and I found support all around the House. In fact, Christine Elliott from the Progressive Conservatives and Yasir Naqvi from the government side, the Liberals, supported that bill. After five tablings and much struggle, many years later we got it passed. So now we have gender identity and gender expression in the Ontario Human Rights Code.

By the way—and this is important—Bill 16: Yes, we need it federally, but if you are a trans person in Ontario, unless you work for a federal employer or in a federal institution, you’re already covered. Your health is covered, your employment is covered and your housing is covered. We have that basis. Know that, and act accordingly. That’s in Ontario.

Then we banned conversion therapy. That bill we got done in two months. It was a record. We banned the attempt to make LGBTQ2S children straight. We banned that in Ontario. Who knew it was still going on? But it was. So that was banned. That just happened in 2015.

Now we’re fighting for parent equality, a struggle that has taken some 10 years.

I hope that in that little

preamble to what I have to say I’ve countered some of the myths about how fast this has happened. It has taken 45 years to get to this point; it has taken 10 years for this bill alone.

The Ontario Court of Appeal recognized equal marriage, as I said, back in 2003, but it has taken 10 years since the courts told this government to fix their legislation. In 2006, the Rutherford case: Justice Rivard found the Ontario birth registration scheme to be discriminatory because it excluded non-biological lesbian co-mothers.

Additionally, a 2007 ruling by the Ontario Court of Appeal declared that there is a legislative gap in the scheme for parental recognition. They said that it’s in the child’s best interest to recognize more than two parents.

On April 8, 2016, 21 LGBTQ families issued a charter challenge against the Ontario government to fight the discriminatory laws. The court ruled in favour of the families and ordered the government to bring in legislation by September 30, 2016, which they did.

Folks will know that in 2015 we brought before the House Cy and Ruby’s Act (Parental Recognition), named after the children who are here, Cy and Ruby, which did pass second reading; however, it sadly died with prorogation. Bill 137 is an update of that. Again, there’s nothing fast about this.

What will the All Families Are Equal Act do, if passed? And by the way, there has been a lot of nonsense written in our papers about this bill. Here’s all it will do:

—It will ensure that all couples who use assisted reproduction to conceive are recognized as their children’s parents.

—It will allow parents who use a surrogate to be legally recognized as their child’s parents without a court process, as long as the surrogate agrees before conception and after birth.

—It will more clearly recognize the legal status of all parents, regardless of how their child was conceived.

—It will bring our laws up-to-date with British Columbia and Alberta, who have already got laws around this.

Again, this is just about equality with heteronormative families. That’s really all it is.

I want to acknowledge those who are here, and some who are not here, who really are the stalwarts and who have really been fighting for this for the last decade. First of all, Joanna Radbord—I don’t see her here, but she was very instrumental; Maretta Miranda, Joanna’s spouse; Cameron Miranda-Radbord, Joanna’s son; and of course, as already acknowledged, Kirsti Mathers McHenry; Jennifer Mathers McHenry; Cy, Kirsti and Jennifer’s son; and Ruby, Kirsti and Jennifer’s daughter. Also, their parents are here: Sheila McHenry and Justin McHenry.

Robyn Dutt; Andy Inkster from the Sherbourne Health Centre, a very important institution in our community that’s been fighting along these lines, again, for at least 10 years; Kathleen Murphy; Poppy Murphy; Sarah Toper; Simon Toper; Dr.

Donna McDonagh—I’m going to talk a little about her charter challenge, but she was one of the applicants there; Caroline McGrath; Rachel Epstein from the LGBTQ Parenting Network, again, who have worked so hard for so long for this moment; Ido Katri; Juana Berinstein, Sarah Blackstock, Nica Blackstock-Berenstein and Isa Blackstock-Berenstein; Elizabeth Ruth; Marcidita Duclayna; Carolina Bernstein; and a student from our office, Bri Gardner from Ursula Franklin, who really is the future and whose future we are working to protect this morning.

So all of these folk and many, many more have been working for a long, long time, Mr. Speaker, to make this day a reality. And why have they been doing it? There’s a simple answer, and that’s love. It’s the love of their own children and the desire to protect their own children, the same way every family in Ontario’s first rule of action, if they’re loving parents, is to love and protect their children. That’s why we’re here. And when we talk about children, we’re saying not just some children, not just the children of heterosexual families, but all children. That’s why we’re here.

Children do not ask which family to be born into. All they ask of us is that we love them and care for them, and they ask of legislators that we make that possible and that we protect those who love them and care for them. That’s why we’re here: to protect those children.

Again, part of the backdrop to this, when we talk about protecting our children, is the very glaring fact that if you are a trans child or if you’re an LGBTQ2S child, your risk of suicide is far greater than a heterosexual child, so it’s to protect those children too. It’s to protect our children. So I would say to anyone who professes faith of any kind, certainly all of our scripture professes love and calls upon us, no matter what our faith, to love our neighbour as ourselves. And guess what? Some of our neighbours are LGBTQ2S.

We are called upon—in fact, it is our duty—to love them, and love means accepting them and treating them as you would someone in your family, someone like you. That’s what it calls us to do. Anything short of that is not faithful. It’s not faithful. Can I repeat that again? It’s not faithful, and particularly where children are concerned, it’s not faithful.

When we think of what all of the world’s holy books have to say about children, we get that message loudly and clearly: It is our duty as adults to protect all of our children, whatever family they are born into, whatever they look like, whatever their families look like. That is a call to us from God. There you go.

Now, to get back to Bill 28 and parental equality, let me talk about Kirsti Mathers McHenry and Jennifer—and this story has been told many times, so I have the permission, of course, to use it. When Kirsti was in labour, she ran into difficulties. She ran into the kind of difficulties that made those who loved her, those who were around and the medical staff fear for her life. In the end, all are well and they’re all here, which we celebrate. But Kirsti realized in this process that if something happened to Jennifer, she would not have any legal right to walk out of that hospital with their child.

Think about that: that in fact, the sperm donor, who did not want to be a parent, would have more rights than she would.

This is the kind of situation we are trying to protect against in Bill 28. That is the child we are going to protect by passing Bill 28. That could happen. That has happened. So when we think about the call to love and we think about the call to love our children, the current status quo does not do that. That’s why we need this bill.

Donna McDonagh’s story is more complicated, a little bit more complicated, but it shows again the failings of the status quo. Her daughter was born in the autumn of 2006. A law was about to change allowing two moms to put their names directly onto a child’s birth certificate. Their baby was the first in Ottawa to have a birth certificate listing two women as parents. Many women thought this was the answer; they thought this was all they needed.

She had every reason to be confident that she was a full parent before the law. Her name was on the birth certificate. Their child’s last name was a hyphenated hybrid of the two moms’ surnames. The two women had signed an order of joint custody. She was granted paid and topped-up parental leave. She had successfully applied for the baby’s health card and social insurance number, and was named as parent on the application for a passport.

Wills, powers of attorney, codicils—everything signalled the same intent, that they were equal parents, until the relationship ended in 2009. At the time of the breakup, there was an agreement there would be joint custody, but there was a loophole in one of the laws governing parentage, which could be used to cut McDonagh out. Needless to say, long story short, hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees later, the situation was rectified.

But when we talk about crowding the courts, clogging the courts, that’s exactly what this bill, Bill 28, will help to remedy. It’s exactly the opposite of what you heard the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington say, exactly the opposite. In fact, the courts will be less crowded because of the passage of Bill 28.

Let us remind also, people who are watching this, that a child who has a medical emergency, who was with, say, Kirsti before this law is brought in, and she needed to sign off on some medical procedure at the hospital if Jennifer were not available— she would not be able to do so. It puts the child’s very health and very life at risk. Again, Bill 28, the equal parent bill, will actually remedy that, will keep our children safer.

I could go on and on, but suffice to say, for those who are watching and for those who are here, this is a historic moment. It’s a historic moment that has taken 45 years and a lot of work on behalf of a lot of people to get to this moment where we can actually have parent equality in the province of Ontario. It’s taken 10 years just for this bill. It’s taken a court order for this government to act. It’s taken all of the above and putting at risk many families and children in that course of time to get to this point.

In a sense, when the member got up and spoke—and I know where he’s getting his talking notes—it was, in point, a question of faith. It is a question of faith in equal rights. It’s a question of faith in protecting our children. It’s a question of faith that families come in all shapes and forms and always have. This is nothing new—always have. It’s a question of faith that if we allow parents who love their children to love their children, those children will be okay insofar as we can protect them.

It is a question of faith in that we’re acting on children’s behalf and not out of prejudice, and not only when those babies are born, but throughout their lives, so that they know, as teenagers, as young people, that they’re going to grow up into a world where they can marry who they love and who they choose, and they can have children and those children will be equal. It’s a matter of faith in that.

It’s a matter of faith in a world that believes in those bedrock principles of equality, of family, of all types of family and of our children’s right to exist safely and with love. It’s faith in that. And, yes, it’s faith in the people who sent us here, that they do support all of that, despite the voices of a few. The vast majority of Canadians and the vast majority of Ontarians want this to pass and faithfully sent us here to make it so. That’s the faith we’re speaking about here, and it’s a faith that every other religious faith takes

part in.

So here’s to parent equality, here’s to our children, here’s to a truly faithful future, a truly equal future for everyone.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Further debate?

Mr. Naqvi has moved third reading of Bill 28,

An Act to amend the Children’s Law Reform Act, the Vital Statistics Act and various other Acts respecting parentage and related registrations. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

I heard a no.

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred until after question period today.

Third reading vote deferred.

Putting Consumers First Act (Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 donnant la priorité aux consommateurs (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la protection du consommateur)

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 28, 2016, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 59,

An Act to enact a new Act with respect to home inspections and to amend various Acts with respect to financial services and consumer protection / Projet de loi 59, Loi édictant une nouvelle loi concernant les inspections immobilières et modifiant diverses lois concernant les services financiers et la protection du consommateur.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. John Yakabuski: I’m a little surprised that we’re debating 59 this morning. This was not something that I expected, and I have to be honest with you, I haven’t even had a chance to do a thorough review of the bill.

This is a consumer protection bill brought forward by the Minister of Government and Consumer Services, with respect to home inspections and to amend various acts with respect to financial services and consumer protection. It’s a very significant bill in its content, so there’s going to be an opportunity to look at all of the details here through the second reading debate and have that opportunity to bring this to committee for further dissecttion, and also the opportunity for people on both sides of the argument to bring their concerns and/or support for the bill to the committee.

One of the things this is about is door-to-door sales. This will ban certain types of door-to-door sales. I must say that over the years, door-to-door sales have become less and less of an issue as the marketplace has changed. Quite frankly, many people do most of their business today online—not myself; I’m a little bit more traditional. But our daughter Emily, who lives in the Northwest Territories, is continuously doing business online, making purchases online. First of all, they don’t have access to all of the stuff within their community of Fort Smith in the Northwest Territories,

whereas online you have access to any product that any of those companies that are offering that line of product—you have access to that.

The issue of door-to-door sales, quite frankly, has changed over the years. But there has always been that challenge attached to it and that concern attached—we’ve always had that picture of the door-to-door salesman that people have some concern about, because the person who meets them at the door has not by choice decided they want to go out shopping for that product. The product is coming to them and, in many ways, they haven’t had a chance—I’ll say one thing about Emily: Before she makes a purchase, she has gone through every possible avenue of that product. Every possible characteristic and attribute of that product she has dissected and studied. Emily doesn’t make impulsive purchases.

One of the challenges with door-to-door sales has always been that you’re met with someone at the door who says, “I’ve got the greatest thing here since they invented the wheel or since sliced bread”—maybe it is sliced bread; I don’t know—“I’ve really got a great product for you. Let me come in and show you this product and I guarantee you’re going to buy it.” Then there’s the concern about some of the techniques that have been used by people who come door to door to sell products.

Our job here as legislators has been and is to protect consumers. It’s vital for us to ensure that we don’t condone practices that would be considered nefarious or misleading. That’s one of the reasons that I think we always need to have good protection for the consumer at their own door. As I said, the person whose door the salesman may come to was not prepared to view that product today, was not prepared to look at that issue, so they haven’t necessarily done their homework. They’re going to be told all about what is great about this product but not necessarily have the time to find out how maybe that product isn’t best for them.

One of the door-to-door sales that we don’t allow anymore is contracts for electricity. We give people a lot of room and a lot of latitude to get out of those contracts. You’ll remember that years ago the show Marketplace did an exposé on door-to-door electricity contracts and found multiple examples of how consumers were almost coerced and forced into signing a contract, and didn’t even know necessarily that they were entering into a contract. That resulted in some legislation being brought in here years ago which made the practice more regulated and more highly scrutinized.

We did that last year again with Bill 122, I think it was, or Bill 132, in the previous Parliament before the prorogation. So there’s more protection for those consumers. They still have the right and the option to enter into a contract for electricity; it just has to be done in a different way and there are more clarifications necessary. Anything that has been done has to be reconfirmed a second time to ensure that the consumer has entered into that contract willfully and of their own accord.

I remember my mother-in-law, who is an 83-year-old senior born in Germany, came here in 1954, never worked outside of the home, lives only on the Canada pension and the old age pension that is provided to her, as anyone at that age has access to or is given those. She would have the supplement as well, because she doesn’t have any other income of any kind. She’s widowed and has been for years.

She got into one of those electricity contracts at the door, and she had that contract for about seven or eight months, was paying way too much, but she never talked to me or my wife about it, because she felt embarrassed that she got into that. Then she started to show us her hydro bills, her electricity bills, and we were able to have her taken off that, have that contract nullified.

I would like to ask the Premier, where have you been? It didn’t become a problem on November 18, 19 and 20 in Ottawa at the Liberal convention, when she made her marvelous speech to the converted. It’s been a problem for years—a minimum of seven or eight years that the problem has been ridiculously challenging for people in this province. And all of a sudden, she is going to fix it? We do need protection for consumers, but I’ll tell you that what consumers need protection from most in this province is that government on that side of the House.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m glad to be able to stand and put in my two cents and my two minutes in response to the fine member’s comments on Bill 59, Putting Consumers First Act. As he talked about the challenges of door-to-door sales or the nature of door-to-door sales, it’s interesting. We think of door-to-door sales being almost—well, like out of a movie, where a door-to-door salesperson comes in to sell you a vacuum and show you a product in the safety and comfort of your own home. We think about how it used to be and we look now to what we recognize at our doors.

When I first bought my house, there was a learning curve about all the things that I needed, trying to think proactively and best care for my new home, and juggle and pay for all of these new bills. I remember someone coming to my door with a computer tablet and showing me all of the reasons that, if I didn’t sign this, I was going to have bills that were astronomical and I wouldn’t be able to manage, and, yes, I worried: “Oh, look at all this that I don’t know.” I read things and got a little bit tangled in the marketing and signed up for a contract.

Then I realized that—I think over the long term, I ended up paying more than I would have if I’d just left well enough alone. But I did not renew, and I called them and said, “Get me off of this.” I was able to do that for myself and advocate for myself and learn something through that process.

My grandmother, though, at 95 years old—I was glad she did consult with me about some of these contracts and that she said to people, “I won’t sign it today. You can leave me something to read.” I’m glad that she did that, because hearing about the member’s mother-in-law and her journey—we do need to do what’s best for consumers, and that is, indeed, to act on their behalf and protect them.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I just wanted to add my voice to Bill 59, and thank the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke. I have to say, for somebody who said he hadn’t read the bill yet, he did a marvellous job of speaking out—mostly, I believe, in favour of it.

I want to begin by thanking the member from Etobicoke Centre, because this is really something that he has championed for a very long time. A good idea is a good idea, and I’m glad that, as a government, we’re bringing that forward.

I am not home, like many of us, so even if a door-to-door salesperson knocks on my door, I’m not at home. But those who do stay at home for long periods of time are particularly vulnerable just because of the opportunity to, I guess, interact in this kind of a sales environment, and also because, as the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke said, often these end up being impulse sales because the deal seems so good and you have to sign now for the deal to be good, and all of those pressure tactics make it very hard to resist.

I have to say that, as a government, we’ve come to this measure. We have tried, in the past, other measures to restrict the fraud element of door-to-door sales, but found that, despite our best efforts, they were not working as well. Hence, this measure now.

I hope the entire Legislature will support this.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mrs. Gila Martow: I’m very pleased to rise and comment on my colleague the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke. He was speaking on Bill 59, which is

an act to enact a new act with respect to home inspections. Basically, this act is dealing with three areas where I think MPPs’ offices get a lot of e-mails and phone calls. One is door-to-door sales. The second is payday loans, which are very common in many of the ridings outside of the GTA and Ottawa. And three is home inspections.

The member who just debated was focused more on the door-to-door sales aspect and the fact that seniors—and, I would add to that, vulnerable people—who are in our communities are at risk of signing and agreeing to things that really are not in their best interests. We all know that in the past, there were many door-to-door sales for energy and electricity contracts which people got trapped in.

We’ve dealt with that in a piece of legislation already, but door-to-door sales still continue and the high-pressure tactics go on, not necessarily to deal with electricity, but I would say that payday loans—it’s very possible that many of the people who are going and getting payday loans at extremely high interest rates—as high as 400% a year, we’re hearing—could be getting those payday loans to pay their hydro bills. Isn’t that unfortunate, Mr. Speaker, to hear that in Ontario, in 2016, people are deciding to borrow money to pay their hydro bills at such high interest?

Home inspectors: Well, we all know that we need better protection of consumers in terms of ensuring that home inspections are done properly. I think that most people would agree with regulating home inspections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’m happy to contribute some comments to this debate, and thank you to the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for contributing his part to the debate.

Speaker, really, we talk about the Putting Consumers First Act as kind of the short version of this bill. I think about how did we get here, where we’re protecting consumers from door-to-door sales or protecting consumers from payday loans, exorbitant interest rates, and we’re protecting consumers from home inspections? Those are the three areas that are being highlighted in this bill.

It’s the right thing to do; we need to protect consumers, Speaker. But how did we get there in the first place, allowing these payday loans to charge extraordinary amounts of interest to the most vulnerable people? Many people now are in that broad title of vulnerable people even if they have a job, because we’re not creating good-paying, sustainable jobs. We’re creating precarious work, jobs that don’t have benefits, and people can’t make ends meet.

When you have hydro rates that are so high, people have to decide between putting food on the table and paying their hydro rates. That is the reality that people are facing today. And what do they do? Sometimes they have to go out to these payday loans and get a loan, just to make ends meet. What’s happening to them is that they’re getting interest rates basically like 490%, I think it was, when you look at how it accumulates. It’s revolving over and over again, and no one catches up.

So having this bill to protect consumers and putting them first is a good thing, Speaker, but honestly, I think about how we got here. It’s sad that people had to suffer so much just to get this government to act on legislation to protect them as consumers when they have to buy a product, because contract people coming door to door on sales are taking advantage of people.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Back to the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for final comments.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I appreciate the comments from the member from Oshawa, London–Fanshawe, the minister for—

Mr. Steve Clark: Seniors.

Mr. John Yakabuski: —seniors, thank you very much—and the member from Thornhill.

I just want to finish on my two minutes by thanking them for their comments, but also talking a little bit about the home inspection component of this bill. My wife is a real estate salesperson—agent—in Barry’s Bay, serving the whole Madawaska valley.

Hon. Eleanor McMahon: Not the Madawaska valley.

Mr. John Yakabuski: The Madawaska valley, yes.

Home inspection is a huge part of a real estate transaction today. Years ago nobody ever did a home inspection. You went in, you made a deal, then you found out some things that were problems with the house, and you might have had to have a legal issue with the buyer and the seller afterward.

Today it’s almost unheard of in her business for there not to be a home inspection of one kind or another. People can do their own home inspection; they can have their friend do a home inspection. But we do have many, many home inspectors in the area that do this as a living. So any way that we can further professionalize that service I think is something that is positive for the buyer and the seller, because the reality is that it’s not the seller trying to win or the buyer trying to win.

It’s about making sure that everybody, when they put their signature on that line at the end, when they finalize the deal, when it is a done deal, as they say, is satisfied that they’ve gone into that with the full information, their eyes fully open, and they’re satisfied that with all the knowledge that is available to them, they’ve made a decision to make a purchase and finalize a sale. So doing something like this, more licensing of home inspectors, is something that I think everybody is in favour of.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): It is now time to recess this House. We will be recessed until 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1010 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’m very pleased to welcome the mother of our page Liam Cronin to our legislative House this morning. Amy Cronin is here. She also wears the hat of chair of Ontario Pork, but she’s most proud today to wear her mother hat because Liam’s doing such a great job as a page.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I would like to welcome members of CUPE Local 4914, representing workers at Peel Children’s Aid Society. They’re here today to raise awareness.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Today is a great day because OUSA is here, the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance. We’ve got Jamie Cleary from Western, Colin Aitchison from Laurier, Tyler Van Herzele from Laurier, Julia Wood from Brock, Patrick Foster from Brock, Carolyn Thompson from Queen’s, Leah Brockie from Queen’s, Antonio Brieva from Waterloo and Zachary Rose from OUSA. Welcome, all. You’re amazing people.

Mr. Norm Miller: I’d like to begin by welcoming guests of page captain Sage Nakamoto—her mother, Sara Nakamoto; father, Craig Nakamoto; grandmother Sheila Berrie; and aunt Kim Dickie—to Queen’s Park this morning.

She also has her entire class from the Muskoka Montessori School coming to visit this morning: Ava Bijl, Grace Gaughan, Ben Caplan, Heidi Cowan, Connor Macmillan, Keenan Patterson, Will Evis, Braeden Thompson-Horvath, Sara Chouinard, Torin Peters-Millar, Sullivan Lance, Andrea Hill, teacher Jeff Mann, and Sam Caplan and Sara Berry, who are accompanying them from Muskoka Montessori School.

And, Mr. Speaker, I’m pleased to welcome Julia Wood, Antonio Brieva and Colin Aitchison from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, whom I met with this morning.

Ms. Catherine Fife: I’d like to welcome, from Wilfrid Laurier University Students’ Union, the vice-president of university affairs, Colin Aitchison; president and CEO, Tyler Van Herzele; from the University of Waterloo Federation of Students, Sarah Wiley, vice-president of education; and Antonio Brieva, government affairs commissioner. Welcome to Queen’s Park today.

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Mr. Speaker, please help me welcome a guest from York region, Gerry Brouwer. He’s in the east members’ gallery.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’d also like to welcome to the House today Chris Cossitt. He is the representative for Ontario Pork representing Bruce county.

Mr. John Vanthof: I’d also like to welcome the members of Ontario Pork here on lobbyist day. A point of trivia: It smells like bacon here every morning, so they’ve got a special in.

Hon. Jeff Leal: I’d also like to welcome Ontario Pork here today, and all those who were able to attend the wonderful breakfast. Pork producers are a vital part of Ontario’s thriving agri-food sector, and we in the Legislature look forward to Ontario Pork’s arrival at Queen’s Park each and every year. I had the pleasure of continuing discussions with Ontario Pork during a meeting this morning. I look forward to our ongoing collaboration. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Todd Smith: I’d like to welcome Oliver Haan, who is one of the directors with Ontario Pork. He also serves as chair of Harvest Hastings, which is a local group in Prince Edward–Hastings promoting local food.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’d like to introduce three new staff members who are in my ministry office joining us here today for question period: Selma, Brandy and Suaad.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: We have a number of supporters of the parent equality bill who might be filtering in at various points. We’ve got Rachel Epstein; we’ve got Ido Katri; we’ve got Donna McDonagh. And Joanna Radbord will be joining us later.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I want to welcome the members from OUSA. I had a great meeting with them yesterday. I want to say a special welcome to Jamie Cleary. He lives in London–Fanshawe, my riding.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further introductions?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’ve been receiving some indications of how people are going to behave today. I’ll deal with it immediately.

Oral Questions

Highway tolls

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It is time for question period. The leader of Her Majesty’s loyal opposition.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Interjections.

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Minister—

Applause.

Mr. Steve Clark: You’re clapping for the next Premier.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s not helpful when I’m trying to get people to stop.

If all indications continue, I will go to warnings immediately. If you’d like to test me, I will fulfill.

Question, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. The Liberals need to open their eyes and realize that life is too expensive in Ontario. They need to open their eyes and realize that 416 and 905 commuters can’t afford these new Liberal tolls. The tax on commuters must end; there is no doubt.

My question to the government is, will they make a U-turn before toll booths are on the ramps of the Gardiner and the DVP? Do they not appreciate that commuters can’t afford this giant new toll?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Commuters and the people of Ontario appreciate this: You need to make decisions; you need to ensure that we continue to invest in our infrastructure; you continue to look forward to the future; and you continue to be open-minded about what is being proposed. No decision has been made. The council hasn’t even reflected on the recommendations and suggestions being put forward by the mayor, and the member opposite has put no ideas forward whatsoever in order to relieve the issue that’s before us.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the minister: Let’s hear what stakeholders are saying about this. The Durham chair, Roger Anderson, had this to say about the Liberal plan to allow taxes on Toronto roads. He said, “I think this is a short-sighted solution ... they’re literally taxing the 905 to pay for” roads that have already been paid for. “Anderson said tolls will end up hurting ... businesses.” He concluded, “I think this is going to backfire.”

I agree with the Durham chair that this is going to backfire. The government is forcing people of Ontario to pay for roads they’ve already paid for.

My question to the Minister of Finance is this—I know that Durham Liberal MPPs must be pleading with the Minister of Finance not to put this tax on Durham. I hope they’re doing that. So the question to the Minister of Finance is: Will he heed the advice of the Durham chair? Will he take advice from Durham Liberal MPPs and not impose this toll?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thank the member for his comment because I’m moving to warnings, and we’ll go quick.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation is warned. Anyone next? It applies to both sides.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Minister of Transportation, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I thank the leader opposite for his question. To follow up on what the Minister of Finance said on his first answer, everyone on this side of the House, everyone in Durham, and everyone in the greater Toronto and Hamilton area understands very clearly where this government stands with respect to making sure that the transportation and transit system that we committed to in 2014 gets fully built.

To cite Chair Roger Anderson from Durham in the House in the context of that question is a little bit surprising to me, because I’ve got to tell you that any time I’ve had the chance to speak with any of our members from Durham, or the chair himself, I’ve heard him celebrate the two-way, all-day GO service we’re delivering, the support for the Durham BRT, and the 407 phase 1 and phase 2 that we’re currently building out to 35/115, Speaker. That chair and our members understand that we believe in producing results, not running away from the tough questions. That leader could take a lesson from us.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

I always remind members to refer to the Chair when answering and asking questions.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, again to the Minister of Finance: It’s not just the mayor of Mississauga; it’s not just the Durham chair; it’s most of the municipal leaders in the 905 saying that this is a reckless, bad Liberal tax.

Let’s hear what someone else said. Just listen to the Mayor of Oshawa, John Henry: “I had no prior heads-up until I heard it on the radio this morning. Would I support this? No.” Henry—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The Minister of Agriculture is warned. The Minister of Municipal Affairs is warned. I’m resolute.

Please finish your question.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, I know that the Liberal members opposite don’t like hearing what municipal mayors are saying about this Liberal tax, but let me continue. The mayor of Oshawa continued by saying, “There’s just no more money that people have left.” They can’t afford these tolls.

There’s no mandate. In 2014, the Premier did not run on tolling the DVP and the Gardiner. The mayors are saying no. Commuters are saying no. Why are they giving the city of Toronto this permission? Why do they want to tax the DVP and the Gardiner? It’s wrong, and the people can’t afford it.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: Listen, I’ve got to tell you, in the two years and five months that I’ve been serving as the Minister of Transportation, Speaker, in every corner of the greater Toronto and Hamilton area—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Chatham–Kent–Essex is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: In every corner of the greater Toronto and Hamilton area, what I hear from both commuters and municipal leaders is their strong support for the transportation plan that our Premier and our government are delivering: GO regional express rail, the Eglinton Crosstown, the Finch West LRT, the Hurontario LRT in Mississauga and the Hamilton LRT. The list is literally endless.

But, Speaker, I have to share with the House: When I talk to municipal representatives in the greater Toronto and Hamilton area and beyond and when I talk to residents in every single community that I just referenced, they have a question for me. They want to know where the leader of the Conservative Party stands on transit funding and transportation funding, and more importantly, they want to know why, for 10 years in Ottawa, he was MIA on these very issues.

Mining industry

Mr. Patrick Brown: Since I can’t get an answer on the Liberal tolls for the DVP and the Gardiner, I’ll try something new: a question for the Minister of the Environment.

A billion-dollar capital project that could lead to 1,000 jobs during construction and another 400 to 500 full-time jobs during operation sounds fantastic, but that very project that I’m describing is being held up by this government’s red tape. The provincial and federal environmental assessments started at the same time in 2013. The federal government approved the project in April, but the provincial deadline of July 22 came and went.

Mr. Speaker, why is the Minister of the Environment single-handedly holding up the billion-dollar Côté gold mine project near Timmins for no reason whatsoever? Why are we the slowest place to do business in Canada?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Over the last two years, we have gone through major reforms in turnaround times because the wait times when I became minister were long. Some of them were taking up to two years. We had some real challenges.

What is actually happening now is that on January 1, we will be introducing measures that will cut those turnaround times in half. As members are also aware, we are computerizing and operating on the EASR system, which will give us some of the fastest turnaround times in the country.

As to the particulars of the complexity of a gold mine, I know that the member for Nickel Belt and I have been discussing that and raising that. We are reviewing it right now. I will assure the member opposite that it will be dealt with expeditiously.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Minister of the Environment: A billion-dollar project—the local community, on board; the local indigenous populations, on board; the federal government, on board. Yet, this government continues to wage this unexplained war against Ontario’s mining industry.

Not only did the minister miss his legislative deadline in July, but now he’s asking local groups for reasons to oppose the project because he can’t come up with any himself. The deadline to respond: mid-December, more than five months after your own legislated deadline.

But there’s hope, Mr. Speaker. There’s hope because the Auditor General is reporting tomorrow on environmental assessment delays just like this one. The minister has seen the report. Did he pass with flying colours, or is what’s happening with the billion-dollar Côté mining project the norm in this province, and we are the province of red tape? Please tell us, Minister.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: When the party opposite was in power, there was almost zero reform in this area. Since Premier Wynne came into power, she immediately directed the reform of the EBR, which is under way; of the ECA system, which is under way; and of the environmental assessments, which are moving to a highly automated EASR system. These are groundbreaking, national leading reforms that will make us one of the most user-friendly and simplest systems to use.

With the particular issue of gold mines, it’s interesting because we have major proposals coming forward from several gold mines in Ontario right now for major reinvestment. As the Minister of Northern Development will tell you, it’s a very dynamic and very exciting time for mining in Ontario, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the minister: The Côté Gold Project is reflective of this government’s contempt for the north and their failure to get projects moving. Just look at the Ring of Fire. The press releases from 2012 were written as if the chromite mine was a done deal. It touted thousands of jobs coming to northern Ontario and has quotes from five ministers, including the current Premier, that the deal was done. The release was followed by years of empty, empty promises. The failure to act on the Ring of Fire is an embarrassment for this government.

It has been years since the Ring of Fire hasn’t moved forward at all. Now the Côté Gold Project is experiencing the same neglect, the same red tape.

When will this government finally commit to making sure the incredible potential of the north is seized? We don’t need any more delays. We don’t need more red tape. We want this government to support northern mining opportunities. Can I have a justification from the minister?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: We have a working committee in cabinet, led by the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, specifically working on this.

But I find this passing strange coming from a former federal member who, when we were twinning northern highways, spending five times what that government did in the north—500% more twinning highways—never even raised a peep. We had no federal matching money: 90% of northern highways are paid for by the government of Ontario—not a red cent or a word from the member opposite. He sat back while money poured into Alberta for the oil sands, no investment in green energy, no investment in the Ring of Fire. Nothing. He was a member from Alberta for the amount of good he was to us in Ontario, and now he has the nerve to criticize the government that is paying—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We’re still on warnings.

New question, the member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton.

Hydro rates

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Acting Premier.

Keeping the fridge on, running a pump to get water from the well or running a baseboard heater aren’t luxuries. These are necessities. These are basics. Does the Acting Premier think it’s okay that working people and seniors can’t afford these basics because hydro bills are so high?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m happy to rise to answer that question because it is an important question. It is something that we recognize: that there are families and there are seniors out there who are having a difficult time paying their electricity bills. That’s why we brought forward from the speech from the throne the 8% reduction and the 20% reduction for the 330,000 families who qualify for that, Mr. Speaker.

We know that more needs to be done. That’s why we continue to talk about the programs that we have in place. The Ontario Electricity Support Program, for example, can provide up to $45 per month for those families who qualify and for seniors. And for those who need to plug in, for example, a piece of medical equipment, they can actually get up to $75 a month to help on their hydro bills.

We know that there’s more to do. The Premier talked about that a few weeks ago. My ministry is working very hard on that and we’ll continue to find ways to help families, to help seniors, to help everyone across the province with their electricity bills.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Speaker, I ask the government to listen very carefully to the story of Bob and Janine. Bob and Janine thought they’d be able to afford to retire. They had budgeted to live on Old Age and CPP. But then their hydro bills started to climb. In spite of heating their home with wood, their hydro bills were almost as much as their rent. Now, after 80 years of living in Sundridge, Bob had to move out of his own community. He had to leave his own community.

Does the Acting Premier think that Bob and Janine need an apology or that they need to actually have lower hydro bills?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Bob and Janine will be getting lower hydro bills, come January 1, with the 8% reduction. I don’t know the specifics of their story, but he did mention Sundridge. Sundridge is a community that does get services in some parts by Hydro One, and that means they have the potential for qualifying for that 20% reduction. That’s a significant savings for that type of family and for 330,000 families right across the province who will qualify for that 20% reduction.

On top of that, there are other programs in place. There’s the northern Ontario tax credit. There’s the LEAP program, if they need to access that if they’re having difficulty paying their bills. There’s also the Ontario Electricity Support Program, which they will qualify for, because he did talk about what their income is, Mr. Speaker. They will qualify and get some benefit from the OESP program. If they’re also heating their home with electricity, then they qualify for that higher benefit. I do hope that that family gets that information so they can qualify and reduce their bills.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Speaker, last week in question period our leader, Andrea Horwath, brought stories of people who had their power cut off even though they’d done everything they could to conserve. This is 2016, and nobody in this province should be paying as much for their hydro bill as they’re paying for their rent. Nobody with a job or a pension—good savings—should find themselves in a position where they’re living in the dark; where they can’t afford or don’t have electricity to keep their fridge on—their food is going bad. They shouldn’t be in a situation where mould is growing in their homes because their basement is flooded and they can’t run a sump pump.

These are real stories. These are tragic realities here in this province because of the Liberal government’s choices. Will the Premier ensure that no more people in this province face the reality of having their hydro cut off?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: When it comes to electricity, it really is an important piece for us that vulnerable customers have the resources to help avoid disconnections. That’s why we’ve enhanced consumer protection rules, including requiring a 10-day advance notice of disconnection, Mr. Speaker, with accompanying resources to help customers with their arrears. There is the LEAP program that will help them. Many other programs in place will help these families who are struggling, because we do agree—everyone in this House would agree—that it is unacceptable for families to have to live that way, Mr. Speaker.

That’s why we brought forward the programs that we did in the speech from the throne. That’s why we have the programs that we have—

Mr. Paul Miller: It’s not working.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Because we are proud of the system that we built. We have a clean, green, reliable system, Mr. Speaker, in which we no longer have to send out warnings telling people to not go outside and to worry about breathing, because we’ve eliminated coal. We’re actually saving billions on our health care system. We are very proud of the system that we’ve built, but we understand we’ve got to make it affordable for as many as we can.

Hydro rates

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question again is to the Acting Premier. It’s not only people who are struggling; it’s also small businesses. Last year, a Liberal backbencher thought it would be a good idea to declare Tomato Day in Ontario and declare that the tomato was the official vegetable in Ontario.

On Monday, we learned that Mucci Farms, which has been growing tomatoes in Kingsville for 45 years, is opening their newest greenhouse in Ohio because the cost of electricity is so high. Bert Mucci said, “We are paying one of the highest rates in North America. It’s causing us to move out of Ontario right now.” I think most farmers would agree that they would rather have affordable hydro so they can keep their greenhouses lit up and operating than Tomato Day.

Will the Acting Premier take the first step towards creating more affordable electricity in this province by stopping any further sale of Hydro One?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Last week, I got to meet with the Ontario association of greenhouse growers, and I know many of us had the opportunity to speak with them. They’re growing and creating great work, creating jobs in our province, and that’s under the leadership of the Minister of Agriculture. I’d like to thank him for all of his great work.

It is concerning when you hear about one business moving out of our province, because we are doing great things. We now have the ICI program, which they are thrilled with. The greenhouse growers’ association is thrilled with the ICI program because they will actually save one third of their bill. They’ve actually talked about the natural gas expansion program that’s being done by the Minister of Infrastructure. They’re very excited about that. That’s a $200-million loan program, a $30-million grant program.

We’re going to continue to see this sector grow in this province because we’ve got the programs that are helping.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Small businesses are at their wits’ end. The Windsor-Essex chamber of commerce says that they’re hearing more and more from businesses ready to relocate to Ohio or simply willing to go under because they can’t afford the cost of hydro. The Kabab N Curry in Windsor is looking to closing because of their bills, because of their electricity costs. Ice Cool Treats is stuck because they can’t afford to hire any staff. Just today, we heard from pork producers who were talking about how the cost of high hydro is impacting them.

Admitting a mistake is a good step, but it doesn’t help any of these small businesses if it’s just an apology. Will the Acting Premier do something concrete and commit to stopping the sale of Hydro One in this province?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: When it comes to small businesses, we actually have many programs in place to help them. The saveONenergy program, for example, is saving many, many businesses thousands of dollars and conserving energy, ensuring that we’re actually saving the system costs as well. We’ve got the ICI program that I mentioned in my previous answer. We also have the 8% reduction that is coming January 1 that’s going to help many small businesses.

But don’t take my word for that. How about Allan O’Dette, the CEO of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce: “We are happy about this. This is the right thing to do, particularly so that the medium-sized enterprises can remain competitive relative to our largest competitor, which is just across the lake.”

This announcement today is very significant for residents and small industry, but the most important group that would benefit will be medium-sized companies like manufacturing.

We’ve got business after business recognizing that the programs we are putting in place will help them continue to grow. We’ll continue to do that because we know that building Ontario up is the right thing to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Over and over we see Liberal ministers standing up in question period and patting themselves on the back about how great a job they’re doing on hydro. The more and more they do that, the more and more they show the people of this province just how disconnected they are, how out of touch they are with the people who are struggling to pay their hydro bills, who are struggling to pay their bills.

Listen, life is unaffordable. People are being squeezed. People at the top are doing better and better and everyone else is paying the price. Nobody—nobody—in this province voted for that. Will the government stop just apologizing for their mistakes and instead do something concrete to actually fix them?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: The concrete actions we have taken are an 8% reduction for five million businesses and families right across the province, effective January 1; a 20% reduction for 330,000 families; 145,000 families qualified for the OESP, and we’re asking more families to apply to qualify. We’ve got five more programs that are helping families and businesses make sure that they stay competitive and actually lower their hydro rates.

It’s not just me who’s saying this. I talked about Allan O’Dette from the Ontario Chamber of Commerce. The Financial Accountability Officer says that our electricity prices are some of the lowest in the country, and when it comes to our energy prices, we’re right in the middle of the pack. Do you know who also endorsed that, Mr. Speaker? The Environmental Commissioner, another officer of the House, who also said that our prices are right in the middle of the pack.

We’re making sure that we’re building Ontario up, creating jobs, building infrastructure, something that neither one of them have a plan—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Ontario economy

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is to the Minister of Finance. Every time this minister stands here to tell us something, the Financial Accountability Officer is compelled to release a report refuting what he just said.

The minister tells us he’ll balance by 2017-18. The FAO releases a fiscal outlook that tells us they won’t. Then the minister puts out a fall economic statement telling us he’ll balance, but the FAO releases a commentary saying that’s not so. Contrary to the government’s fantasy numbers, the FAO says we’ll have a deficit of $2.6 billion and a “significant risk” of structural deficits going forward.

It’s time for the Premier and the minister to come clean with Ontario taxpayers. Will the minister be raising more taxes or cutting more services to fill the multi-billion-dollar hole in his budget?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Again, I appreciate the work done by the FAO. As we all recognize, he does have sensitivity about some of the challenges that are faced in our economy, and has done so in the past.

We’ve exceeded those targets. We have recalibrated and done what’s—

Interjections.

Mr. Paul Miller: Don’t look at me. I didn’t do anything.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m not 100% sure.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we have taken the measures necessary to grow our economy. Last quarter, Ontario outpaced the United States, the G7 and Canada. As a result, we are taking those efforts into play. We’re taking efforts to control our spending and we’ve done so, being the lowest-cost government anywhere in Canada as a result. As those revenues grow and as we control our spending, we’re balancing the books.

The FAO, in his commentary, references that his assumptions are actually less aggressive than ours. We have taken a more cautious approach in responding to the Auditor General, for example, in order for us to take the necessary steps to come to balance next year and the year after that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Back to the minister: The people of Ontario cannot trust anything this Liberal government has to say. Yesterday, the Financial Accountability Officer confirmed the minister’s budget plan is a complete fantasy.

Rather than own up to their years of waste, mismanagement and scandals, they continue to punish Ontario taxpayers. This means more one-time fire sales, such as Hydro One; higher taxes and fees, like the $500 million more in drivers’ licences; and more cuts to front-line services.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell is warned. I have my eye on about three others.

Finish, please.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Will the minister just come clean with the Ontario taxpayers and explain whether he’s raising more taxes or cutting more services to fill the multi-billion-dollar hole in his budget?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Let’s come clean, because the member opposite always sort of misinterprets what is happening right now and always makes comparisons of some decisions that were never made in the past.

We are outpacing Canada in growth. We have the highest growth, and that’s identified by independent economists. We take those assumptions and pare them down even more in order to do our projections going forward.

We have the lowest unemployment in eight years in the province of Ontario. We have actually had 641,000 net new jobs since the recession.

We have taken every step to manage our spending and control our debt by ensuring that we lock in our terms over longer periods of time. It’s why our interest on debt is the lowest today than it’s been since their time in office, as well as the NDP. Our accumulated deficit as a percentage of GDP is the same today as it was 25 years ago.

We’re taking the necessary steps. We’re investing, we’re growing our economy and we’re coming to balance next year and the year after that.

Smart meters

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Energy. In her 2014 report, the Auditor General found that the government had forced smart meters onto Ontarians without doing a business case analysis or a cost-benefit analysis. The cost of the program doubled to $2 billion, just as the NDP predicted it would, and last week we learned that time-of-use pricing had shifted less than 1% of peak demand, even though peak pricing is double that of off-peak pricing. Many Ontarians are unable to change their pattern of energy use because they need to use the power when they need to use it.

Will the government stop forcing time-of-use pricing onto Ontarians?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I am pleased to be able to rise and talk about some of the things that I talked about yesterday that will relate to smart meters. Yesterday, I spoke to the Empire Club. There were 300 business and energy leaders there listening to what we had to say. What we were talking about, Mr. Speaker, is utilizing some customer choice options, because right now, we’re doing the long-term energy plan consultations right across the province. Improving customer choice, allowing customers to look at choice, is something that we need to look at. I think that’s what we’re going to see come from the long-term energy plan.

Smart meters will allow that to happen because, right now, it is an interesting thing when we have condo dwellers in downtown Toronto, for example, on the same price plan as seniors who are living in a bungalow, for example, in my great riding of Sudbury or in Sault Ste. Marie or in St. Catharines. Looking at some of those options would be important, and that was the foresight that this government had by bringing forward the smart meters and making sure we implemented that so we can actually continue to move forward.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Well, I’ve never heard that called “foresight” before—extraordinary.

Time-of-use pricing punishes consumers like new moms, seniors and low-income families who can conserve energy but don’t necessarily have the option of using it at another time. They have to use it when they need to use it.

When will the minister stop punishing Ontarians by forcing them to use time-of-use pricing? When will you stop punishing them?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I know he hasn’t heard the word “foresight” before because it’s actually called “planning,” and it’s something that they don’t have when it comes to the energy sector. But we do have a plan. Our long-term energy plan is actually looking at many things that we can do to help downward pressure on rates. We’ve talked about that. The 8% reduction, the 20% reduction—we’ve talked about those quite often. Those are great, great options and great plans for people to actually see downward pressure on rates.

But we continue to find ways and to look at the technology that is coming forward. We’ve got storage. We’ve got great jobs coming in the storage sector and great ways of actually reducing our energy costs. Let’s look at and challenge the sector to be more efficient when it comes to our great supply mix that we have. There are many things we can do, Mr. Speaker, and that’s because we’ve built a clean, reliable power system, one that we can all be proud of and one that we can continue to enhance.

Pork industry

Mr. Mike Colle: A question to the Minister of Agriculture: With the pork producers here today, Minister—I have raised this before with the pork producers—as you know, with many new Canadians, there’s been a real increase in the demand for safe, reliable, respected Canadian and Ontario pork. That is coming from the new Canadians. I know in the Chinese community there is a huge consumption of pork. They love their pork; they love their Ontario pork.

Can you tell me what the pork producers are doing to essentially market their wonderful, safe Ontario pork to new Canadians who are calling Ontario home?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank my colleague from Eglinton–Lawrence for asking me a question today about Ontario pork. Ontario Pork, of course, this morning sponsored a breakfast for all MPPs to take the opportunity to update them on what Ontario Pork is doing. Mr. Speaker, there’s no question about that. I’ve had the opportunity now on two occasions to travel with my colleague the Honourable Michael Chan, the Minister of International Trade. We were in China in April 2015, and just seven days ago, we finished an extensive agricultural trade mission to India.

One thing that everybody in this House should know is that the Ontario brand is known internationally, around the world. It is known for safety and quality. We’re looking at ways for Ontario Pork to increase their exports to every corner of the world because, Mr. Speaker, you and I both know that good things always grow in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Mike Colle: Thank you, Minister. As you know, the price of beef has gone up in Ontario in the last year. I know when I go shopping at Lady York and Zito’s in my riding, they talk about the price of beef. But I noticed a lot of them are switching over to pork, because people tell me that a good pork chop is just as good as a good steak.

What can we do to market all these wonderful by-products of pork whereby, again, people in Ontario finally appreciate the safety, the quality and the integrity of Ontario pork? What else can we do to further market this wonderful, locally grown Ontario product?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for his supplementary. I can assure the members of this House that I enjoy a good steak, I enjoy a good pork chop and I enjoy a lot of good chicken.

But let me tell you what we’ve done over the last number of years, working with Ontario Pork. They’ve been so innovative, and now they produce a product that’s very, very lean and is being consumed on a worldwide basis, not only here in Ontario, but in other provinces in Canada and around the world.

It goes back to the fundamental thing that we have. Agriculture and agri-food contribute $36 billion to Ontario’s GDP. Ontario pork is giving us a reputation around the world for quality each and every time.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

New question?

Consumer protection

Mr. Jim McDonell: To the Acting Premier: This government has utterly failed to consult with reward point providers before bringing forth Bill 47 to the table and to committee. Reward points have to be accounted for as a liability on providers’ balance sheets. Were this bill to go ahead and have this government micromanage the industry, programs such as Aeroplan, Air Miles and others could leave this province altogether, gutting consumers’ access to reward points programs.

Speaker, consumers value their points, but does this government know what it’s actually doing?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. David Orazietti: I appreciate the question from the member opposite.

First of all, I want to take a second and commend the good member from Beaches–East York for his leadership on this.

Applause.

Hon. David Orazietti: Absolutely. His leadership brought forward Bill 47, the Protecting Rewards Points Act, so I want to thank him for his leadership and for being in tune, obviously, with consumers on this particular issue.

As you know, Speaker, loyalty rewards points have value, which is why our government is taking steps to protect them. If passed, the proposed amendments to the Consumer Protection Act would ensure that these rewards points cannot be cancelled or diluted in any way.

I want all Ontarians to know that they don’t need to worry if they have points that are about to expire, because we are committed to taking action on this issue. I’ll have more to say in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim McDonell: The amendments to Bill 47 filed by this government will give the minister the power to regulate the entire rewards points industry from her office without any industry or consumer consultation—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We were at a point where I thought members were getting their questions and answers in appropriately without it, but there’s a lot of dialogue going on now because of our situation. I think we need to bring it back down again, please. I need to hear it. Thank you.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Thank you, Speaker—without any industry or consumer consultation, and despite the fact that the reward point account is a completely voluntary agreement, where the consumer is rewarded with free products and services just for being a loyal customer. This is just the government trying to clutch at straws to shore up its popularity.

Has this government considered the impact this legislation will have on Ontarians’ ability to access reward point programs and their ability to redeem these points in the future? Again, can the minister explain how forcing reward point programs out of the province is actually helping consumers?

Hon. David Orazietti: Someone may want to stand up for big business, but we’re standing up for consumers in this province. That’s exactly what the member from Beaches–East York was showing leadership on.

In fact, as everyone knows, this particular bill will be discussed in the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills today at 4 o’clock, where we’ll have clause-by-clause and public hearings on this particular matter.

I’m really pleased with the steps that we’re taking to protect consumers in Ontario. Bill 59, the Putting Consumers First Act, helps to ban door-to-door sales and stop those aggressive tactics at the doors, sets up rules for home inspectors, and also takes stronger action on aggressive payday-loan-type establishments that are very predatory to consumers and make it very difficult for consumers to get out of that cycle. On this side of the House, we’re taking strong action to protect consumers.

Agri-food industry

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is for the Acting Premier. Back in 2014, the Windsor-Essex Regional Chamber of Commerce identified strong potential for growth in the agri-food sector, in the greenhouse vegetable sector in my riding. Indeed, my region boasts the highest concentration of year-round vegetable production anywhere in Canada.

Yesterday, Mucci Farms in Kingsville announced that it was expanding its operations—in Ohio. They cited the already high and rising costs of electricity in Ontario as their primary reason for leaving.

Can the Acting Premier tell the people of my region how their homes and businesses can be powered by Liberal apologies?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m very pleased to rise and talk about the great things that we’re doing to help small and medium-sized enterprises, and the greenhouse growers of the province as well. I had the opportunity to meet with them just last week. They were here talking to all of us on the hill. They were very pleased to see all of the programs that we’re bringing forward to actually help them and many other businesses right across the province.

The ICI program will be a direct benefit to the greenhouse growers’ association, but it will also be a direct benefit to 1,000 other small and medium-sized enterprises right across the province. They’ll be able to reduce their electricity bills by one third. That’s pretty exciting for many of these businesses. They’ll also qualify for the 8% rebate for small businesses, the same as homes.

It’s not just us saying this, Mr. Speaker. It’s the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, which also supports this program.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I’ve heard the Premier stand in this House and out in the public and talk in glowing terms about the potential of the agri-food sector in Ontario. Meanwhile, after more than a decade of Liberal promises to expand Highway 3 and to allow for improved access to markets for this critical sector, that promise remains unfilled—after a decade.

When will this Liberal government take its big red boot off the throats of rural Ontario and support affordability and prosperity for the people in rural Ontario?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Minister of Agriculture.

Hon. Jeff Leal: I know last week the greenhouse growers of Ontario were in to see my colleague the Minister of Energy. My colleague certainly engaged with them in a very positive dialogue about how our changes to the ICI will be very, very helpful for the greenhouse sector in the province of Ontario.

We do know it’s growing. Over the last two years, in the agri-food sector alone, we have generated 42,000 new jobs in the province of Ontario—$2.2 billion in additional GDP—and we’ve partnered to bring in the new Herb Gray Parkway in Windsor, Ontario, to make sure that Ontario products can get to the border to achieve those exports, because Ontario food is demanded around the world.

Senior citizens

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is to the minister responsible for seniors affairs. Minister, I read that last Friday you were in London to announce the 2017 round of funding for the Seniors Community Grant Program. It’s my understanding that this program provides funding to non-profit community seniors groups for projects that encourage greater social inclusion, volunteerism and community engagement. This is a great program that provides grant opportunities for small, grassroots community organizations in order to benefit seniors, especially in rural areas.

Can the minister please provide more details on this great program?

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I want to begin by thanking the great member from Northumberland–Quinte West for asking this important question about the Seniors Community Grant Program. Indeed, I was very excited to have been in London, joined by the Deputy Premier, the honourable member for London North Centre, for this announcement—an announcement that we are looking to invest another $2 million in the Seniors Community Grant Program. Might I add that I think that it’s among the best $2 million this government is spending?

In the 2016 round of funding, this program benefited the lives of approximately 142,000 seniors through 380 projects. Nearly half of these programs were organized by small local groups to serve the unique needs of their communities.

Since 2014, we have invested $5 million. We look forward to investing another $2 million.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I want to thank the minister for her answer. Supporting over a quarter-million seniors is truly an accomplishment that you and this government should be proud of. In my riding, this program has helped many different agencies and programs, such as the Bridge Hospice in Warkworth, St. John Ambulance, the Northumberland elder abuse network, the Ruth Clarke activity centre in Port Hope, and Campbellford curling programs.

I am glad that we are acknowledging the important role that seniors have played and continue to play in our communities. I’ve heard that keeping seniors connected, active and engaged has been shown to contribute to their overall health and well-being. As I’m sure we all know, seniors in our communities are not looking to slow down any time soon. But we all know that the needs of different communities are often unique from those around them.

Could the minister responsible for seniors provide an example to this House of the diversity of programs that the seniors community grants support?

Hon. Dipika Damerla: Again, I want to thank the member from Northumberland–Quinte West for the question and for himself giving a number of great examples. He rattled off a long list of examples of this program in action.

For me, Mr. Speaker, the programs that jump into my mind are three of the 2016 recipients. ATN Access, for example, based in London, has provided opportunities for individuals with disabilities to gain access to employment, reach their educational goals and improve the quality of life. Seniors community grant assistance is also helping Youth Opportunities Unlimited, again in London. Youth Opportunities Unlimited has launched a pilot project that offers unique volunteer opportunities for seniors to engage with youth.

Finally, in the interest of time, a third example: Meals on Wheels in London has used their funding to create a workshop series to educate seniors on common age-related challenges.

Hydro rates

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to the Minister of Energy. Yesterday, the Ontario Association of Food Banks released its annual report on hunger, putting a spotlight on the growing crisis of energy poverty in our province. The report shares stories of low-income individuals, especially in rural areas, who can no longer afford constantly increasing hydro costs.

Too many residents in my riding are suffering. I hear their pleas of desperation at every event. My constituency office is flooded with requests for help with hydro bills. Contrary to what the Minister of Energy says, we do help them access existing programs, but the food bank report confirms what we’ve been saying all along: They’re only a drop in the bucket. While the Premier has taken responsibility for the energy poverty crisis, her words do nothing to help those in my riding who go out of their way to cut back on electricity use but still see their hydro bills rise.

When will the government listen to our food banks and fix the problem, rather than offering band-aid solutions?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: We know that some Ontarians in particular struggle with their electricity bills. We’ve been aware of that since I’ve taken over this ministry. But that’s because we had to build the system, that they left decimated, back up from the ground. They left it decimated. They actually relied on cheap coal. We no longer do that. We’ve invested in the system. We’ve made sure that people have a system that they can rely on. But that came with a cost, and the Premier recognizes that. We recognize that as a government, and that’s why we brought forward the 8% reduction for all families and businesses right across the province, and a 20% reduction as well.

We also have six programs in place to help many of these families. I know more needs to be done, and that’s why we’re moving forward with our plan—something that they don’t have.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Laurie Scott: To the minister: Not only are individuals paying the price for the government’s misguided policies, so are our municipalities. In my riding, the city of Kawartha Lakes now spends over $5 million a year for hydro. They are frustrated that delivery charges are very expensive compared to urban areas, and there seems to be no remedy. In August alone, their bill for 51 street lights was $86 for electricity use, yet the total bill was $41,000—global adjustment over $15,000, delivery charges over $16,000, regulatory charges, debt retirement charges and on and on.

This is outrageous, and residents will ultimately have to pay for this. They’re going to have to pay twice: first on their hydro bills and again on their tax bill.

My question to the minister is, when will your government act to help our municipalities deal with the mess that the Premier admits she created?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m happy to be able to rise to answer this question because they were talking about the debt retirement charge. That’s something that we eliminated for all families, but that’s their legacy. They left a debt retirement charge that businesses are still paying to this day, but it’s the leadership of this government that’s going to eliminate that.

When it comes to municipalities, our government has worked hard over the last 13 years to improve the provincial and municipal relationship that was abandoned by them. They downloaded everything onto the municipalities. You can ask many of our MPPs who were actually in the municipal sector before. Everything was downloaded.

We are no longer doing that. We’ve seen $4 billion given to our municipalities, and that will be done by 2017. When it comes to making sure that our municipalities are saving energy, they’re actually doing it through—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Hydro rates

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Acting Premier. The hydro rate crisis caused by this government is now putting hundreds of Hamiltonians at risk of losing the roof over their heads. The city’s Homelessness Prevention program has run out of money because so many struggling people have needed help with their hydro bills. The government says it will increase the funding next year, maybe, but the program is facing a $2.5-million deficit right now, caused by Liberal hydro failures.

What will this government do today to ensure hundreds of people in my community can stay in their homes and keep the lights and the heat on?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the Minister of Housing and minister responsible for poverty reduction.

Hon. Chris Ballard: It goes without saying that Ontarians should never have to choose between paying for food or their hydro bill. The Minister of Energy has outlined a number of key things that his ministry is putting into place: an 8% rebate—20% for rural—and suspending large renewal procurement.

I can say that when it comes to Hamilton, since 2003, this government has invested over $166 million for affordable housing. But what does that mean in Hamilton? It means 872 affordable housing units have been created in Hamilton, 470 affordable housing units have been repaired in Hamilton, and 294 households received down payment assistance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before we move to supplementary, just a reminder that the member has been warned. You have been warned already.

Mr. Paul Miller: Oh, thank you, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Oh, you’re welcome.

Supplementary.

Mr. Paul Miller: Speaker, the Premier likes to call herself the social justice Premier—fair enough. Yet as housing minister, Kathleen Wynne cut and capped funding for municipal homelessness prevention programs, leaving thousands of vulnerable Ontarians at risk. Previously, the province used to fund homelessness prevention based on need, and hydro in this province used to be affordable for all.

Well, Speaker, an apology isn’t quite enough anymore. What real, concrete steps will this Premier take to actually bring down hydro bills and keep people in their homes?

Hon. Chris Ballard: I’m glad the member opposite mentioned the Community Homelessness Prevention Initiative. Last year, that program, called CHPI, helped almost 40,000 families across Ontario. Because of CHPI, 115,000 families and individuals remain in their homes.

Mr. Speaker, this government doesn’t need to take a lesson from the opposite side. Their platform, the NDP platform, didn’t even mention the word “poverty” in the last election. Come on. And now they’re concerned.

The NDP have said no to higher wages for PSWs. They’ve said no to an increase for families who depend on the Ontario Child Benefit. The list goes on about everything that the NDP said no about.

Assistance to farmers

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: My question is for the awesome Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. Minister, support for Ontario’s agriculture producers is crucial to ensuring that the province’s $36.4-billion agri-food sector continues to thrive.

Ontario farmers work hard to deliver top-quality Ontario produce and Ontario meat to thousands of people across the province every single day.

This year, we doubled the feeder cattle loan guarantee program from $130 million to $260 million to promote the growth of Ontario’s cattle industry and retain jobs within the province.

We also introduced production insurance for tender fruit growers who lose their trees as a result of specific risks covered by the plan. Providing accessible, efficient support for farmers is part of our government’s plan.

Minister, can you please provide further information—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. That’s not acceptable. It’s your own member asking the question.

Carry on.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: Can you provide further information regarding what we’re doing to support farmers and grow the economy?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member from Kingston and the Islands for the question this morning. I know how hard she works, particularly with the farm community on Wolfe Island in the Kingston area.

A short time ago, Mr. Speaker, we did double the feeder cattle loan program, and we also expanded production insurance to include tender fruit growers in the province of Ontario. Our government continues to have a strong commitment to address the challenges facing Ontario farmers.

But, Mr. Speaker, nothing brings more tears to my eyes than when I’ve been in a farmer’s field to see a leftover carcass of a cow, a sheep or a pig that has been ravaged by a predator—a coyote or a wolf. I’ve taken the opportunity on numerous occasions to see what is a very tragic situation for a farmer.

So we spent some time over the last number of months to look at ways to improve the wildlife compensation program in the province of Ontario, to make sure, working with our municipalities, that farmers are justly compensated for their animals that are destroyed—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: Thank you, Minister, for explaining to the House how the Ontario Wildlife Damage Compensation Program, OWDCP, has been updated to provide Ontario’s farmers with the support that they need when their animals are killed or injured by predatory wildlife. I’m sure the farmers in my riding of Kingston and the Islands know just how crucial this support is to protecting their livestock during these difficult situations.

Just last night, I attended the Ontario Agriculture Sustainability Coalition reception and had the opportunity to speak with representatives from Ontario Pork, Ontario beef and Ontario sheep who shared with me the importance of protecting their livestock in every possible way.

We all know that supporting our farmers is important for their livelihoods and will help them continue to produce some of the best products that land on our tables. It is wonderful to see the work our government is doing to support farmers so they can continue to flourish within the province of Ontario.

Minister, can you please share with the House how the sector has reacted following the announcement that the OWDCP will be updated?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member for Kingston and the Islands for the supplementary question.

Indeed, effective January 1, 2017, compensation rates for animals, bee colonies and hives will be standardized right across the province of Ontario. The updated program will clearly define the requirements farmers need to meet to receive compensation.

One of the things that concerned me about our previous program was the amount of red tape that was embedded in the program. I’ve taken the opportunity to take a chainsaw to that red tape. So now we have a new, single-stage appeal process that will provide a straightforward approach for farmers and will help to provide them with compensation even quicker.

Rob Scott, the chair of the Ontario Sheep Marketing Agency, had this to say: “OSMA appreciates the opportunity that Ontario gave the industry to provide input on the predation program review. Their willingness to work with the industry speaks to their commitment to ensuring the program works” for all farmers—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question?

Ontario Drug Benefit Program

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is to the Minister of Health. Since 2015, I’ve been working with a family in Dufferin–Caledon whose daughter has PKU, a rare, inherited, brain-threatening metabolic disorder. Did you know people with PKU need treatment for life? My constituent has been taking Kuvan as part of a SickKids hospital drug trial for the past seven years. Now the trial is set to end and they simply cannot afford the staggering cost of Kuvan, which is $170,000 per year.

On October 26, the Common Drug Review recommended the government pay for Kuvan. When will the Ministry of Health act and cover Kuvan for people with PKU?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question. I know that the member opposite also appreciates that we’ve taken the politics out of drug funding and deciding which drugs should be made available to Ontarians.

The decision to fund all drugs, including a drug like Kuvan, which for some time has been available to Ontarians on an exceptional basis through our Exceptional Access Program—we base our funding decisions and the availability of drugs on the best scientific evidence. Now we have a system, which is a pan-Canadian system, which allows for review on that national basis. I know that there have been ongoing discussions with the drug review nationally, as well, and further submissions by the drug company.

I know the ministry is reviewing that to see if, in fact, we should make further changes to what is already a drug that’s available for exceptional circumstances. I expect we’ll have a decision shortly.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Families and patients have been waiting too long for the Minister of Health to act. Kuvan is on the exceptional health access program, but the criteria are so restrictive that not a single application has been approved. It has been six years since Health Canada approved Kuvan. It has been over a month since the Common Drug Review recommended that the Minister of Health cover Kuvan.

When will the Minister of Health make an announcement that Kuvan will finally be covered for people who have PKU?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: In fact, the Canadian drug review rejected, in 2013, and made a negative funding recommendation for Kuvan at that time, based on an absence of scientific evidence as to its benefit over existing measures. Notwithstanding that, we made a decision in the province to make it available for exceptional reasons. That is our current policy.

Of course, with additional evidence, should it come forward to demonstrate efficacy, and scientific evidence of its benefit and, of course, in consideration of the national process, if there’s a decision made by the Common Drug Review—earlier, I said “Canadian”—to fund this drug in broader circumstances, we of course will look at that. We make our decisions—in fact, I am not involved. I can’t be involved in decisions. The experts within the ministry make the decisions on the best scientific evidence available.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Beaches–East York on a point of order.

Mr. Arthur Potts: I seek unanimous consent to delay the votes on parentage, Bill 28, and on Bill 27, until after the swearing-in of the new member from Niagara West–Glanbrook and after he takes his seat, so that the voices of those citizens can be reflected—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Beaches–East York is seeking unanimous consent to delay a vote. Do we agree? I heard a “no.”

Deferred Votes

Burden Reduction Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’allègement du fardeau réglementaire

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 27,

An Act to reduce the regulatory burden on business, to enact various new Acts and to make other amendments and repeals / Projet de loi 27, Loi visant à alléger le fardeau réglementaire des entreprises, à édicter diverses lois et à modifier et abroger d’autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1140 to 1145.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): On October 4, 2016, Mr. Duguid moved second reading of Bill 27. All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Albanese, Laura

Anderson, Granville

Arnott, Ted

Baker, Yvan

Ballard, Chris

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Patrick

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Clark, Steve

Coe, Lorne

Colle, Mike

Coteau, Michael

Crack, Grant

Damerla, Dipika

Del Duca, Steven

Des Rosiers, Nathalie

Dhillon, Vic

Dong, Han

Fedeli, Victor

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fraser, John

Hillier, Randy

Hoggarth, Ann

Hoskins, Eric

Hunter, Mitzie

Jaczek, Helena

Jones, Sylvia

Kiwala, Sophie

Leal, Jeff

MacCharles, Tracy

Mangat, Amrit

Martins, Cristina

Martow, Gila

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McDonell, Jim

McGarry, Kathryn

McMahon, Eleanor

McMeekin, Ted

Milczyn, Peter Z.

Miller, Norm

Moridi, Reza

Munro, Julia

Murray, Glen R.

Naidoo-Harris, Indira

Naqvi, Yasir

Orazietti, David

Potts, Arthur

Qaadri, Shafiq

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Todd

Sousa, Charles

Takhar, Harinder S.

Thibeault, Glenn

Thompson, Lisa M.

Vernile, Daiene

Walker, Bill

Wilson, Jim

Wong, Soo

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All those opposed, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Armstrong, Teresa J.

DiNovo, Cheri

Fife, Catherine

French, Jennifer K.

Gates, Wayne

Gélinas, France

Gretzky, Lisa

Hatfield, Percy

Natyshak, Taras

Sattler, Peggy

Singh, Jagmeet

Tabuns, Peter

Vanthof, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Todd Decker): The ayes are 65; the nays are 13.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I declare the motion carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Shall the bill be ordered for third reading? Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, I would ask that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on General Government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): So be it.

All Families Are Equal Act (Parentage and Related Registrations Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’égalité de toutes les familles (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes)

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 28,

An Act to amend the Children’s Law Reform Act, the Vital Statistics Act and various other Acts respecting parentage and related registrations / Projet de loi 28, Loi modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l’enfance, la

Loi sur les statistiques de l’état civil et diverses autres lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregis