VOL. 3 -;: __ PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY !"OR THZ PERIOD 3:00 -6:00 p.m. MONDAY, JUNE 15, 1981 NO. 60

~; ~ ... ->:..;. ~: June 15, 1981 The House met at 3:00P.M. Mr. Chairman in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Tape No. 2453 EL - 1 Order, please! I would like to welcome to the Speaker's Gallery today the hon. Prouse Chappel, the Minister of Agriculture and Forestry from Prince Edward Island and the grain co-ovdinator with the Agriculture and Foresty Department in Prince Edward Island, Mr. Reid Sangster, who are visiting the ~rovince. We welcome them. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! S'rATEMENTS BY MINISTERS YIR. SPEAKER: The hon. thE;! Minister of 11unicipal Affairs. MRS. NEWHOOK: Mr.

Speaker, as, I indicated previously, I now present the 1981 -82 Municipal Capital Works Programme for water and sewer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MRS. NEWHOOK: For water and sewer and municipal roads, Mr. Speaker, the total approved funding for this year is $31,598,000. SOME HON. MEMBERS: 11RS . NEWHOOK : Hear, hear! And, Mr. Speaker, last year the total approved was $27,291,409 and in that amount was included the Fed­ eral Community Services contribution programme of $6.9 million.

And this year the Federal Government has discontinued this funding s·o actually government has increased its approved funding by $11,206,591. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MRS. ;)IEWHOOK: Mr. Speaker - :1R. FLIGHT: MRS. NEWHOOK: Hear, hear! It is a long list of all the projects, Give us the list. Alright then. Mr. Speaker, these are in alphabet­ ical order, Admiral's Beach, Water Supply, $40,000; Appleton, 6 s '! 9

·-~ ......... -Jtj June 15, 1981 ·· Tape No. 2453 EL -2 NRS. NEWHOOK: Water and Sewer, $365,000; 3adger's Quay, $110,000; Baie Verte Roads, $95,000; Baie Verte, Nater Supp­ ly $1,400,000 - SOHE HON. ~lEM.BERS : Hear, hear! MRS. NEWHOOK: -Bay de Verde, water and Sewer, $675,000;~~eay L'Argent, Roads, $49,000; Bayview,Water and Sewer, $120,000; Bonavista,Water and Sewer, $500,000- SOME HON . MEMBERS : Bear, hear: MRS.

NEWHOOK: -Bona vista roads, $14 2, 000; Burnt Island, Nater and Sewer, $20,000; Campbellton, Water and Sewer, $500,000; Cartwright, Water and Sewer, $850,000; Change Islands, Roads, $84,000; Conception Bay South, Water and Sewer, 5850,000. SOME HON. ~1EMBERS : Hear, hear~ ~RS. ~EWHOOK: Corner •Brook, Curling Dam, SlOO,OOO; Corner Brook, Roads, $1,000,000; Deer Lake, Roads, $200,000; Dunville, Roads, S92,000; Durrell, Roads, $80,000; Elliston, Water and Sewer, $320,000; 5:3 2 n

-~~ ,.._, June 15,1981 Tape No. L454 ah-1 MRS· NE'"I'lHOOK: Fleur de Lys , water and sewer, $200,000; Gambo,water and sewer,$700,000~ Gander,roads, $644,000,-Gillams,sewer,$25,000; Goulds1roads,$77,000~ Goulds,water and sewer, $125,000; Goulds,water and sewe~ $275,000; Grand Falls,water and sewer,$2, 510,000. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MRS.NEWHOOK: Grand Falls,roads,$322,000; Hampden,water and sewer,$50,000; Hampden,water and sewer, $290,000; Happy Valley1 sewer,$400,000; Harbour Grace, roads, $150,000; Harbour Main,$84,000; Hare Bay,$320,000; Holyrood, roads, $83,000; Labrador City, sewer treatment plant,$2,300,000; Labrador City,roads,$500,000; Leading Tickles West,water and sewer, $220,000; Lewisport,roads,$200,000; Little Catalina,water and sewer, $330,000; Main Brook,water and sewer, $110,000; Marytown,roads, ~lOU,OuO; Marystown, sewer, $150,000; Massey Drive,$275,000; Meadows,water and sewe~ $60,000; Ming's Bight1water and sewer,$125,000; Mount Pearl, roads ,$700,000; Nippers Harbour, sewer,$375,000; Northwest River,water and sewer,$610,000; Northwest River, water and sewer, miscellaneous, $100,000~ Pacquet.,water and sewer,$250,000; Paradise1•.vater and sewer,$500,000; Parkers Cove, sewer, $200,000; Pasadena,roads1$396,000; Petty Eiarbour-Naddox: Cove,•.vater and sewer1$500,000; Pilley's Island,water and sewer, $625,000; Placentia,water and sewer, $300,000; Plate Cove East ,•.vater and sewer, $300,000 ~ Point Leamington,water and sewer,$600,000; Port Hope SL~pson, roads,$50,000; Portual Cove,water and sewer,$800,000; P~mch Cove 1 •.vater and sewer, $'J 0 0, 000; Rame a ,roads, s 55 0, ooo·, Robert's Arm, roads, $51,000," St.Bernard's,sewer,$70,000; St.

George's,water and se•.ver,S400,000; St. John's,roads. $1 ~illion; St. Phillips, roads,$70,000; Sandy Cove, water supply,$25,000; South Brook -Hare Bay,water and sewer, $400,000; Spaniard's Bay, sewer,$50,000, Stephenville,roads, SSOO,OOO,-Stephenville Crossing,water and sewer, $425,000; 6 G 2 ·1

-~ ;.;:_.; June 15,1981 Tape No. 2454 ah-2 MRS NENHOOK: Torbay,water and sewer,$410,000; Trinity,Bonavista Bay t·•ater and sewer,$520,000; Triton-Jim's Cove,water and sewer, $390,000, Twillinqate,roads,S100,000; Upper Island Cove,wat~r supp1y,~60u,Ou0. SOK~ HON.~ERS: Rear, hear: MRS NEWHOOK: ivabana,sewer,$250,000; Wabush,roads, $211,000; ~vesleyville,water.S25,000; Nhitbourne,water and sewer, $25,000; .-.~-2 b'.:L

--,~· ,, .. June 15, 1981 Tape 2455 EC - 1 MRS·. NEWHOOK: Windsor, roads 1$300,000; Windsor, water and sewer,$100,000; Windsor ,water and sewer,$27,000; Woodstock, roads, $76,000. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition has about three minutes. MR. STIRLING: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. On this side of the House,we welcome finally the tabling of the figures. I think that every mayor and every council has been advised of this and everybody knows what is in it. Now, Mr.

Speaker, if that 'N'as $31 million worth of grants that was being announced today ~e could all get up and be very excited and say, 'Thank you very much. ' But instead of being so excited l•le should recognize that the thing that happened 1 !1r. StJeaker, was the government got very excited about the fact that they are announcing $31 million worth of loans, that the people in all of these areas have now been given the consent to borrow the money and that this is what is going to happen, Mr.

Speaker, the people who are looking for water and sewer services according to the Five Year Plan are going to have to pay their own way. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STIRLING: This ties in with what has been decided in the Five Year Plan as the imposition of a mandatory property tax on all developed municipalities by 1985. So 1• Mr. Speaker, what has really happened today -and the government has got very excited about the fact -is that they have allowed the ~unicipalities throughout Newfoundland and Labrador to get $31 million worth of loans. SOME HON. M&~ERS: Oh1 oh! 6G2:1

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2456 DW - 1 1-!R. L. STIRLING: $90 million, $90 million worth of requests from all over this Province from people who want also to put in water and sewer and roads. Mr. Speaker, the announcement is ... ---:. not as muc~ as for what it says as for what it does not say, that three quarters of the people have not even had the permission to borrow as these people have done.But we welcome the announcement, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further statements? 000 DR. P. McNICHOLAS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for St. John's Centre. DR. P. McNICHOLAS: A 9oint of privilege, Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Pardon? DR. P. McNICHOLAS: A point of privilege. 1<1..R. SPEAKER: A point of privilege, the hon. member for St. John's Centre. DR. P. McNICHOLAS: On the last sitting day, on Friday a statement was made about me by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) which is not true. He said I was offered a position in the Cabinet and that is not true. I have the greatest regard in the world for the Premier and the Cabinet and everybody on this side of the House,and most of the members on the other side,if not all-and I am not excluding my friend for LaPoile.

There was also another implication made that the reason -which, of course, must be untrue when I was not offered a position -that I •.vanted to stick to my practice and make a million dollars. I think it is well known that I wrote pointing out to individuals that my duty •t~as to carry on my practice because of the shortage of ophthalmologists in Newfoundland. r' ;~ ) 5 0 ...... 1.. ~

. ·' June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2456 ow -2 SOt1E HON. :1EHBERS: iiear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Ni th respect to the point of privilege I would have to rule, of course, that there is no prima facie case. The hon. member has taken the opportunity, I understand, at Least, to make some ex- planatory comments or make some remarks about remarks that were attributed to him. Any further statements? ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. ~R. L. STIRLING: ~x. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health (Mr.

House) and actually it ties in with the point of privilege raised by the member for St. John's Centre (Dr. McNicholas) who is oniy carryi~g on his practice, ~uch as he would like to be serving full cime in politics, is only carrying on his practice because of the severe shortage of medical specialists. Would the Minister of Health now advise the House of Assembly whether or not he has any additional information Erom any of the hospitals on ~he ~losing of beds and the severe shortage of nursing positions ~,rouqhout the Province? 6S26

.... June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2457 so -1 MR. STIRLING: He has given us the impression that he has a very limited amount of information. Can he now tell us what additional information he has received since we last met? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. Minister of Health . MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I do not see that tying in with. the. point of privilege raised by my colleague behind me here. The fact is, t1r. Speaker, I have been in contact with a fair number of hospitals, I had mentioned that the last day.

I have not been in any contact since Friday except wit4 one particular situation and what I said pertained Friday is still the case today. There are some hospitals ' closing bed because of the shortage of nurses this Summer, there is no question about that. I said this is a normal situation in the Province in the Summer. MR. HODDER: Not so. Go out to Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital and find out what is going on, boy. Go out and visit a few hospitals. MR. HOUSE: It is a normal situation this summer and, of course, as we have said - :.!R. FLIGHT: Go visit the Central Newfoundland Hospital. ~1R.

HOUSE: -that •..te are trying in all ways possible to assist hospitals in finding nurses and recruiting nurses, but I have been advised by all hospitals there is the fact that there is no problem with giving the services and I am advised by them that they can serve the public well at this point in time. We had one case where one hospital, for instance, Waterford has more vacancies than they had anticipated and they had anticipated about twenty-six to thirty and there are forty. If we had forty people to place in the Waterford at the present time it would give a total service system.

Right now I have been advised by that hospital that they can handle the situation and handle it very well. 6 ~J 2 7

~r- • June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2457 so -2 MR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms}: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Op?osition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Health (Mr. House} stop playing games and have us get this information one bit at a time or from the news media one bit at a time?

Will the ~inister of Health undertake his responsibilities, namely, contact all of the hospitals that are operating in this Province and table in this House of Assembly a statement of the assessment of the hospitals of their ability to cope with the existing situation and to table' in this House the nu.mber of shortages of nurses they have at the present: ti:ne and the amount of cutback that they anticipate that they will have in order to maintain even emergency services throughout the Summer months? Will the minister table this info~ation instead of playing games with us? HR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister of Health. ~. HOOSE: Mr. Speaker, I have not been ?laying games. First of all, I advised the House of Assembly last week that I had been in contact,or officials of ~he department had been in contact with most of the hospitals, I guess all of the hospitals - MR. STIRLING: Wh~ch now? Most you mentioned are. MR. HOOSE: -most of the hospitals . There are twenty-four hospital boards operating about t:lircy- odd hospitals and there are twelve cottage hospitals. 61J 2 A

7~.,.._ June 15, 1981 Tape-No. 2458 NM -1 MR. HOUSE: we have been in contact and the information I have had - MR. STIRLING: Contacting? Last time you told us you were not responsible for contacting. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, we were in contact. MR. STIRLING: With all twen.ty-four? MR. HOUSE: We were in contact with the hospitals. MR. STIRLING: All twenty-four? MR. HOUSE: I cannot say offhand, Mr. Speaker, if it was all twenty-four.

Most of the hospitals, I would have to say that now, and the information we have, the information we received from them, is that in some cases the shortage is not as bad as it had been anticipate~ in two or three cases. MR. STIRLING: Name them. ~arne. them. MR. HOUSE: One particularly ,,;as at the General Hospital, the Health Sciences. I just mentioned one that has a bigger shoc-tage than <.vas anticipated and there is another one -there are two - I believe it is the 'ties tern ~!emorial has more than was antici_:ated. MR. STIRLING: Three. Grand Falls, four. MR.

HOUSE: The rest of them are pretty well on as to what was anticipated. MR. STIRLING: Will you give us a report by hospital? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) Order, please! MR. HOUSE: Mr. Sneaker, ! will give reports that I think-; and my assessment anc1. in the boards assessments is the best interest of the hospital -the best interest of the public. We are advised that the situation is normal for this time of tha year and the public need not be necessarily alarmed because the hospital boards have, right to a board, said ~hat they can handle the situation. 632g

~ -....--. June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2458 NM - 2 MR. STIRLING: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLDIG: Mr. Speaker, the minister -I do not trust the minister's judgement because he says that the is going to tell us when it is in his judgement. Well,will he now undertake to table a report from each hospital for this House of Assembly so that we can see what the state of the situation is in each i10spital.

Because based on the government's record, they only deal with crisis _ after it has happened, after there is a big problem, after the fishermen walked out, after the nurses are now telling there is a real problem. Will the minister undertake to table in this House of Assembly a report, by hospital, of the situation throughout the Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I am quite aware of my situation as Minister of Health. I am on top of it and I will keep the public informed in what I think is the best interest of the public.

I am not about to be tabling information, I am not about to get in a bargaining position with the hospitals or anybody else. lve •,qill determine what information -I '"ill say I have a responsiblity to see to it that the ?Ublic is well served and I believe that they are being well served and I will get the House the information that I think in my judgement is the best kind of information for them to have. Right now there is no hospital indicating to me -now I have not visited all the hospitals. I am get.ting a report from the directors and as far as I can gather from the assessment of what I am getting - !<!R.

STIRLING: HR. HOUSE: MR. STIRLING: Careful now. Be careful. -the assessments from - '3e careful. 6530

:;a ~ June 15, 198f Tape No. 2458 NM - 3 HR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I do not have to listen to the hon. member telling me to be careful. I know whereof I speak. From the information I am getting,and the assessment of that information by people who are capable of assessing it, we are saying that at this point in time 6 i3 3 'I

..:.r-,...._ ...._, June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2459 EL - 1 MR. HOUSE: there is no eme·rgency situation. I gave advice about the problem at St. Clare's two or three days ago and all I can do now is rehash what I said then, what I said at the time . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my question in for the Minister of Development(N. Windsor). It has to do with Newfoundland Hardwoods.

I have been hearing some reports lately that Newfoundland Hardwoods is having a difficult time to survive because apparently they were doing a lot of business with the United States and because of the exchange on the American dollar they have been expressing a view that they may have had a diff­ icult year financially. Would the hon. gentleman care to tell us what is happening with regard to Newfoundland Hardwood? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Develop- ment. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any undue difficulties with Newfoundland Hardwoods.

We are re­ viewing it consistantly on a consistant basis. As it relates to the exchange rate, that would only serve to help a company that is exporting; where the Canadian dollars is devaluating in re­ lation to the U.S. dollar, it is in the best interests of a New­ foundland company that is exporting to the United States. If you are talking about what is being imported, yes, then it would have a negative ·effect. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

A supplementary, the hon. member Obviously the hon. gentleman does not know very much about the operation of Newfoundland Hard- wood, Mr. Speaker. I am referring to what they import from the 6G32 ~ .

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2459 EL -2 MR. NEARY: United States and they are concerned about it. But the hon. gentleman mentioned that they are reviewing the situation. Well, why are they reviewing the situation? Is there any problems with Newfoundland Hardwoods? ~ ... "" ~; MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Develop- ,., ment. MR. WINDSOR: No, Mr. Speaker, it is our policy to keep a constant monitoring of all Crown corporations for which the department is responsible. MR. NEARY: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, is the hon. gentleman saying that the long-range future of Newfoundland Hardwood and the asphalt plant that they operate at Clarenville is guaranteed? Can he reassure this House and the employees of Newfoundland Hardwoods and the asphalt plant down at Clarenville that there will be no lay-offs, that they will be able to continue their operation at least in the foreseeable future? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Develop- ment. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, the asphalt operation, as I understand it is quite viable.

As also stated in the Five Year Plan of the Province, we are looking at divestiture of all such Crown corporations which are not directly related to utilities or whatever,such as Newfoundland Hydro,and we are reviewing Newfoundland Hardwoods in that light as well. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. 11R. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Premier and I would indicate that in June 20, 1980, the hon. 6G33

•' ,. .. _, June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2459 EL -3 MR. FLIGHT: James McGrath, in defending New·found- land's right to transportpower acr8ss Quebec, across boundaries, was pressing the Prime Minister with a series 6 G 31+

-~~ ~ .... June 15, 1981 Tape 2460 EC -1 MR. FLIGHT: the Prime Minister with a series of questions trying to establish this Province's right and supporting the Premier. The Prime Minister indicated at one point in the Question Period that he believed that it was already contained in the Constitution, that Newfoundland under the old Constitution, the present Constitution, had the right to transport power. So Mr. McGrath then asked this question having established that.

He said, 'In view of the fact that talks have broken off' -that is, talks between Quebec and Newfoundland, April 1980 -'why has the Prime Minister not acted upon the formal request of the Premier of Newfoundland on April 16th advising him that these talks have broken off to exercise his authority on behalf of the Province of Newfoundland to provide for a corridor through Quebec for the transmission and potential sale of Newfoundland hydro-electric power to customers in New York and Ontario.' And the Prime Minister, 'Mr.

Trudeau: Madam Speaker, I would think that such action would only be possible if Newfoundland had the contracts for the sale of power to some other part of the country and if Quebec were imposing unreasonable charges in the transfer of that power in the sense that it would constitute some kind of tariff or barrier which would constitutionally be advisable.

I have no evidence as of yet' -April 20th-•I have no evidence as of yet that either of these conditions have been met.' And I would simply ask the Premier, Does the Prime Minister of Canada in the intervening year, or the Parliament of Canada or the Cabinet have evidence now that if we had the constitutional right to transport our power across Quebec, if the federal government imposed that constitutional right, does he have the evidence that we do indeed have contracts in hand that would enable us to start immediately on the development of the Lower Churchill? No that is a simple question. 6!335

,·_ ... -~: ,.,., ..... June 15, 1981 Tape 2460 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the hon. member was for the past year when his question was asked. Where was the hon.member when the government released information on a contract in principle that the Government of Newfoundland has with the Power Authority of the State of New York? I do not know where the han. member has been during the past year that he was not aware that we have made representations to the Prime Minister's Office and to the Minister of Energy (Mr.

LaLonde) in Ottawa indicating that sufficient firm intent on behalf of the Power Authority of the State of New York where they say, 'We will buy whatever power you can generate if you can get it to us.' And all that information has been provided to the Energy Minister in Ottawa; it has been provided to the Prime Minister. And we have been through the past number of months continuing our efforts in making representation both to Mr. LaLonde and to the Prime Minister on this very issue.

And we solicit the support of the hon. members to see that we are given the same treatment under the Constitution as others should have. And may I say to the hon. member also that the Prime Minister does not have to wait until there is an obstacle before he exercises his constitutional responsibility, the Prime Minister should 6636

--~~ t~"' June 15, 1981 Tape No". 2461 DW - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: execute his constitutional responsibility regardless. You do not have to wait for an obstacle to suddenly present itself between two provinces before you exercise your obligation; you exercise you obligation in any case. MR. G. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, the han. member for Windsor -Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I just have one I question to ask the Premier.

Assuming the people of Newfoundland have a right to know what to expect from the Lower Churchill, how soon we are going to get the Lower Churchill power sites under construction and the power available either to the Province or for export, and asumming -and I realize it is a little presumptious but I have to ask the Premier -assuming that the Prime Minister of Canada is prepared to exercise that responsi- bility and to give :.Jewfoundland the constitutional right to move its power through a corridor through Quebec, are we now in a position, if that were to happen now -it has not happened this past year according to the Premier -if it were to happen now are we then in a position as a Pro- vince to undertake the immediate start up of the Lower Churchill, the Gull Island sites and the Muskrat sites, assuming that the Prime Minister meets what the Premier calls his constitutional responsibility to Newfoundland?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I am not going to get into a hypothetical situation here this afternoon with the han. member. All I can is t~at our position, all the information that we have , all the homework that we have done on the Lower Churchill through the Lower Churchill Development Corporation, as a government in trying to get sales West, in trying to attract industry to the Province 6637

.,, June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2461 ow -2 PREMIER PECKFORD: to use some of that power,which took myself and the Minister oflDevelopment into the United States a few weeks ago to try to accelerate that effort, ~nd as we continue day by day now to try to use that surplus power,that we are trying by every means possible, constitutionally and otherwise,to move a project on the Lower Churchill River whether that is the Gull Island project or the Muskrat Falls project and we will leave no stone unturned to do that!

We have been doing everything in our power now, we have identified a number possible industrial incentives or industrial projects that might help that. But we want, Mr. Speaker, the same rights as all other Canadians have now and exercise now. And we cannot seem to get that. We want to be able to transmit hydro power in the same way as other provinces can transmit oil and gas and that our energy product should be treated no differently. Until such time as that happens there will be some difficulty in transmitting West. Meanwhile, we have not put all our eggs in the one basket, Mr.

Speaker, we are also trying to attract industry to the Island or to Labrador to take some of that surplus power now seeing we cannot use all of it as it relates to Gull Island. Muskrat Falls does not give us any flexibility because you can use all of that within our own grid now. We would much prefer to do Gull Island first because it is cheaper power and the people of Newfoundland need cheaper power. 1'7e do not want to give them more expensive power than necessary. It is cheaper than any other form of power that we can generate for the consumer of electricity. So,therefore, that is 6638 l,

_-..:::;,;~ ' June 15, 1981 Tape No, 2462 AH - l PREMI.ER, PECKFORD; the cheapest power that we must get into. MR.. STIRLING: Cheaper than what? Cheaper than what? PREMIER PECKFORD: And i~ the Leader of the Opposition will let me finish my answer witl\out interruption as I try to treat him -talk about treatment, Mr. Speaker, one notices that when the Leader of the Qpposi t.ion or tl\e member for liTindsor-Buchans [Mr. Flightl asks questions, I do not interrupt. I would like for them to record to me the same courtesy in return that when I am answerin~ the questions I can also have that kind of court- esy.

And if I cannot then, Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer the questions, MR. . SPEAKER (Simms.)_ : Order, please! Th.e han, member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: I yield, Mr. Speaker, MR. SPEAKER,: The hon. member yields. A supplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile, MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. Premier just made a statement, Mr.

Speaker, that Newfoundland, he feels that New:foundland should have the same rights: as the Western pro- vinces: h.ave for transporting gas and oil and I. do not think anybody disagrees with. that, But that right that the h.on. gentleman just referred to will be guaranteed in the new constitution. Now why is the hon gentleman not behind Mr. Trudeau and the Parliament o:f Canada in trying to bring h.ome the constitution wh.en that will guarantee Newfoundland the right to move its goods and services across. provincial bound- aries? MR. lfANCOCK: That is right. A good question, MR. SPEA:h'ER: The hon. the Premi.er.

PREMIER PECKFORD; Mr. Spea.ker, I. thought it h.ad been abundantlx-clear in different brochures and different things that th.e Government of Newfoundland has put out in the last number of months as it relates to the cons.tituti.on that under th.e new· constitution [Jroposals Newfoundland will nc longer 6G39

June 15, 19.81 T<\pe No. 2462 AH - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD : be equal to the other provinces of Canada. Prim<\r~ly Ontario and Quebec will have a veto for all time and they can veto any measure that the rest of the provinces caa.bring forward. Now if the member for LaPoile(Mr .. Neary)_ wants to accept that constitutional package, wants to see Newfoundland downgraded within Confederation, if he wants to see some of the other pro­ vinces downgraded within Confede,~;ation, fine and dandy. If he is willing to trade that off that is fine. SOME: RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please!

PREMIER l?ECKFORD: ram not willing to trade it off, nor am I willing to trade off mvnership of the offshore oil and gas resource.. Now, if the member for LaPoile and the Liberal Opposition want to be a part of a proposal which sees. ten equal provinces being reduced to t'<V:O provinces •,rho will have a veto over any kind of constitutional pro­ vision in the future, with the rest of the provinces grappl­ ing for some k.ind of power, th.en that is wh.ere he can stand.

This government, this party is opposed to a constitional package wh.ich sees th.e downgrading of Newfoundland in the Confederation, SOME HON, MEMBERS: Kear , hear! MR. SPEAKER: The h.on. member for Torngat Mountains. MR, WARREN: I yield, Mr, Speaker .. MR. SPEAKER: ~he han, member yields again. The h.on. member for LaPoile, MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, th.e han, gentleman did not answer the question -and I know I cannot argue about that. I can put it down for the Late Show on Thursday but the question that I put to the han. gentleman had to do with moving of goods and services across provincial boundaries.

MR, HANCOCK: Ffear, hear! 6G~D

' r. June 15, 1981 Tape No. 24li2 AJi -3 MR. NEARY: Th.e new consti.tution as I. unders-tand it will guarantee that every province will be ~qu~l as far as the movement of goods and services is concerned. So I cannot det>ate th.at, Mr. Speaker, out I will just make that as a preliminary to th~ next question that I am qotng to ask the han. gentleman. The h.on, gentleman says ti\Jare ts an agreement with the New England States, with. Ne~ York - !?ardon? PRE11IER PECl<FORD: (Inaudible~ th.e !?ower Authority or th.e state of New ~ork. MR.

NEARY: The h.on. gentleman just said in answer to a question th.e.re is a contract. Will th.e non. gentleman undertake - AN HON. MEr-mER: He never said a contract. 6641

~ ..... June 15, 1981, Tape 2463, Page 1 --apb MR. NEARY: contract, what Ls tha difference? PREMIER PECKFORD: all. MR. NEARY: MR. ·sPEAKER (Simms·) : member to put his question. MR. NEARY: An agreement, a CinaudLble) that is Mr. Speaker I would ask the hon. Mr. Speaker, if the Premier would stop interrupting me I might be able to get my question - MR. HANCOCK: he is just sitting there. MR. NEARY: He does not do that, No, he is the one who does not interruptanybody, we only interrupt him. Would the hon. gentleman tell the House. whether there is in actual fact and agreement, a contract ornerely a letter of intent?

And would a letter of intent oe suffLcLent for the Government of Canada to force Quebec to allow the transmLssion of our hydro power? Merely on a letter of intent from somebody somewhere in North America, is that sufficient? Or is the Prime Minister and the Government of Canada talking about a contract or an agreement with somebody to actually buy the power? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premi.er. PREMIER PECKFORD: The only reason why I interrupted the hon. member, Hr. Speaker, was because I wanted to ge.t it straight; Lt was· not with New· Eng land, it was with the State of New-York.

And I apologi.ze for interrupting the hon. member in hLs question but I just wanted to make sure he had it clear. I do not know where the member for LaPoile(Mr. Neary) has been for the last year, I do not know where the. member for Windsor -Buchars GG42

?-a~_ June 15, l98l, Tape 2463, Page 2 -apb. PREJ."!IER PECKFORD : (Mr. FlLght) has been for the. past year, nor do I know where the members of the OpposLtion have been. I thought they had been across the floor from me but obvious-ly they have not been paying much attenti.on. SOME: HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms}: Now, the Oh, oh!' Order~ PREMIER PE:CXFORD: -question itself, Mr.

Speaker, lends-itself to the lUnd of Liberal phi.los.ophy that makes us-the. government and makes them the OpposLtion -and Lt fits -tnat me must kowtow some.­ h.ow or another and do something unusual before our rights. are. maintained in th.i:s ConfederatLon. I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that we should have the same rights -whether there is. a contract, whe.tfler there. i.s an arrangement, whether there i.s: a letter of i.ntent, whether there is-a letter at all. It should be common and fair and equal to all Canadi.ans th.at we can transport our energy products. the same aa other CanadLans SOME: RON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ PREMIER PECKFORD : -whether there is a contract, whether there is: an agreement, whether there is a letter of intent. So let us make that straigh.t first, Mr. Speaker, that there does not h.ave to he a letter of i.ntent, there does not have to be a contract, there does not have. to be an agreement for our rights to be honoured in the consti.tution, they s·h.ould be honoured automatic ally. AutomatLcally! MR. FLIGHT: with. the. power - PREMIER PECXFORD: MR. FLIGHT: Island - NR • SPEAKER: 6643 But what would you do Now, Mr. Spe.aker (inaudible) from the Order~ order!

:!$-,.,._ June ~5, 198~, Tape 2463, Page 3 --apb MR. FLrGHT: -'~<Ould you - MR. SPEAI<ER(Simmsl: Order! PREMIER PECKFORD: -that i.s. the first thing. There doeS" not have to oe anything. Quebec doeS" not have to say - MR. r'LrGHT : MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: Who said you do not - Order, please! Order! -no, PASNY does not have to say yes for ·power, it should be automatic, as it is for all other Canadians. Right now it is not automatic; we have been ?revented from developing the Lower Churchill because we are not given the same rights of transmission over our energy products as other Canadians.

And when that becomes operative, then we should be able to take that kind of procedure and sell and get a good de~. Now we are asked, ~tr. Speaker, to go the other way around. ~~icn comes first,the chicken or the egg?

What is supposed to come first is our rights in the constitution and ~1e should be able to go to PASNY or New England, we should be able to go to industrial customers and say to them, 'Gentleman, New York, PASNY, industrial customer, we are able to transmit energy pO\ver across Quebec in the same way as Alberta can transmit oi.l; therefore, can we do a contract? - so that, therefore, we are in the driver's seat. PASNY kl"lows now iran the negotiating 6G44

~,....-. •' June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2464 so -l PREMIER PECKFORD: point of view that we have got to go to them first so that therefore they are in a stronger bargaining position to get a better price on our ?ower than we are when we should be able to go to PAS NY and say, 'We can go through Quebec· , no proqlem, because oil and gas goes across Canada.' Then we are in a stronger bargaining position to get a better price for power. So, Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh.

PREMIER PECKFORD: -in trying to respond to the han. member's question, let me say to him that whether his questions want to be phrased as cawing down, I for one, as one Canadian, want to be treated equally to others and therefore there should be no question about our transmission rights across Quebec. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPE&~ER (Simms) MR. 'tlARREN : MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear. The han. member for Torngat Mountains. I yield, Mr. Speaker. The han. member yields again, The han member Mr.

Speaker, I was hoping to get a straight answer, not this anti-Canadian attitude, this separatist attitude the han. gentleman has been displaying. But, Mr. Speaker, my understanding is this that we already have the right, the constitutional authority is there to transport goods and services across provincial boundaries. The new constitution will strengthen that. Now the Prime Minister is saying to the han. gentleman, 'Bring us your contract and if Quebec is being unreasonable 1ve will deal with the matter' .

Now the Lieutenant-Governor, when he read the Throne Speech on February 25th said , "Ny government has concluded an agreement in principle with ~ew York far the sale of this surplus power." Now would the han. gentleman care to tell us whether that is an agreement in principle or 6G45

~r ,._, June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2464 SD -2 MR. NEARY: whether it is a letter of intent? What is it we are talking about? Bocause the han. gentleman, I am sure, would not expect, even though he is anti-Canadian and separatist ,would not expect the Government of Canada or the Parliament of Canada to deal with the Province of Que~ec merely on a letter of intent. Is that what the han. gentleman is talking about? Will the hon. gentleman undertake to table whatever it is he is talking about1 a letter of intent or an agreement in principle, would the han. gentleman care to table it in this House? MR.

SPEAKER(Sirnrns) PREMIER PECKFORD: The han. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, aooarently the han. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary), never got it clear before, it has been tabled long ago. The han. member is getting tired, he forgets just how many things that have been made public by this government over the last year. There is a voluminous number of them, Mr. Speaker, and he cannot keep track of them. so I am very sorry if this lame duck Opposition still do not understand and read what is being tabled in this hon. House and 1vhat has been made public.

So I am very, very sorry that thehon. member for LaPoile is so far back in his research that we really should be in last year's estimates. Now, Mr. Speaker, to deal with a number of the other matters - MR. STIRLING: Se9aratist. P!illMIER PECKFORD: 'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me', and if the han. member wants to continue to call me a separatist or so does the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) let them go right ahead, I am a proud Newfoundlander and a proud Canadian and I will tell you right now - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh. oh.

PREMIER PECKFORD: - I •Nill tell you this: I am a proud Cacadian and I •.vill be a prouder Canadian the days that 1ve are 6646 !-

(·:~· t._ .... : ~- June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2464 SD - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: treated the same as Alberta is treated, the day that we are treated the same as Ontario is treated - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: - I will even be a prouder Canadian. And to come back to it again to show the difference 6 ,-.. r 7 r] 4 I .,

-.:...~~ ,... .. June 15, 1981 Tape 2465 EC -1 PREMIER PECKFORD: between both sides, Mr. Speaker, to show the difference between both sides again, once again, the Liberal member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) and the Opposition want us to cow down, and we must have a contract before our rights can be honoured, when any other Canadian does not hav~ to have a contract before his rights are honoured. I say, treat us fairly without contracts, without certain things that we have to do that no other Canadian has to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: Why should we not be treated the same, equal, as other Canadians? We do not have to cow down to anybody else and therefore be less Canadians than other people. MR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, you know, it seems as though the people on the other side still cannot get used to the fact that they have been in government for ten years. They still cannot quite get used to it. MR. SPEAKER: The point of order. MR. STIRLING: That was just a comment, Mr.

Speaker. Dealing with the point of order, the Premier said that this Opposition wants them to kowtow or 'cow down' to use his expression. Cow dung might be more appropriate. Well, Mr. Speaker, he cannot use that kind of a comment about this side of the House. We believe that we have the rights under the Constitution. We supported strengthened rights. And there is nobody expecting anybody, except somebody who is paranoid, who got beat up in Toronto one time, who figures he has got to kowtow. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 6G48

--~; _,.,a.,.· .. June 15, 1981 Tape 2465 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please: MR. STIRLING: Now, Mr. Speaker, he used the expression that we want him to kowtow. Now, regardless of his

interpretation, he has to withdraw that comment. We are not -it is imputing motives and we do not have a motive of suggesting that the Premier should kowtow. He may feel that he is some kind of an inferior being but we do not feel that he is and we do not expect him to kowtow. He is an equal Canadian. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER: the hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the point of order, To that point of order. This once again contrasts and classically shows the dirference between both sides.

Now, most points of order that are brought up, the Leader of the Opposition and his friends usually end up not having a point of order. And to be brief and to be short, I am very sorry that the Leader of the Opposition still has not learned the rules of this House. There is no point of order. MR. SPEAKER: With respect to the point of order raised by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition, I rule there is no point of order, but a difference of opinion between two han. gentlemen. The time for Oral Questions has expired. 000 MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, could I get a petition out here that I hav~?

I missed you when it was going by. MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that we revert to Petitions? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Agreed. Agreed. 6649

-~~ .... · June 15, 1981 Tape 2465 EC - 3 M.~. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the member for Port au Port on a petition. MR. HODDER: I want to thank the members opposite, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition from 231 residents of the community of Kippins. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HODDER: The petition, t'lr. Speaker, asks that Area 102, which is the area known as the Romaine Block, not be sprayed. The letter that is included 1-1ith the petition, Mr. Speaker, says, "As you are aware - l-1R • MORGAN : (Inaudible). MR.

HODDE:R: Mr. speaker, if the Minister of Fishries could restrain himself,please. AN HON. MEMBER: Or retain himself. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Perhaps everybody c~uld restrain themselves so we can hear what the hon. member is say~ng. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition is 6GSO t:

-~~ ,.;...~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2466 NM - 1 MR. HODDER: that the Romaine block not '--:; sprayed. The letter which accompanies the petition I will read it for hon. mernbers,says, "As you are aware area 102 is to be sprayed by the controversial chemical matacil in the very near future. This area is very near a fresh water source, namely Kippins River. This river is frequently used by children for swimming purposes. Some areas bordering the river is privately owned and grazing animals are presently feeding on this property. Also some crops are planted in the area for private use.

"We,the undersigned, request that you intervene on our behalf to have this spraying stopped because of the water, plant and animal life in this area, and also the safety of our children. We, the people, feel that this matter warrants immediate attention and we fully intend to take as much action as necessary. "We have researched the matacil findings and we find that a pesticide which cannot stand up to reasonable public scrutiny should be refused registration. "A survey of names will confirm that the people of Kippins, area 102, strongly object to the spraying of matacil in this particular area of Romaines Brook.

"We strongly urge the governmen.t once and for all to comply with what the people want, not with what they themselves want. "Last but not least,matacil is suspected of causing Reye' s c::.rndrome, a disease of children and teenagers which effects the brain and the liver. It usually kills"- AN HON. MEMBER: Not true. MR. HODDER: These are not my words, Mr. Speaker. They are the words of the people of Kippins. 6651

-~I June 15, 1981 Ta.pe. No. 246() NM -2 ~IR. HODDER : "It usually i<.ills except when treated with such severe measures as exchange blood transfusions, kidney machines, and respirators. It appears to result from an interaction between a usually mild virus and a chemical. NO\ol' tell us,is tbat all worth the risk?" Now, Mr. Speaker, this petition was si~ned by just about,I would say,perhaps fifty or sixty per cen~ of the community of Kippins. 231 reside.nts signed this petition and from looking through ~he petition there is a cross

section of all of the people of Kippins. And, Mr. Speaker, what they are trying to tell the. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power}, and what they are trying to tel~ the Premier, and what they are trying to tell the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Andrews}, is that, "We do not want -" they are not talking about the s~ray in ge.neral. They are. saying that they do not want an area where the people o,f Kippins use for recreational puproses, where people from Kippi.ns spend a considerable amount of their time i~ fishing and huntL~g, 111here crops are grown and where livestock roam. to the minister, Mr. Speaker, I lvould suggest 6 ....... ') 0;:) (.

-~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2467 EL - l MR. HODDER: if he responds to this, that the minister should consider the use of Bt in this particular area because it is an area which is a source of the water supply, or the water supplies, I suppose, of Kippins because as members may be aware, Kippins does not have a municipal water supply, or the majority of Kippins does not have a municipal water supply and people drink from a shallow wells there. The area being sprayed is the runoff, the area for which the water runs into the town of Kipp- ins and the people just do not want a chemical spray in that particular area.

So I would suggest to the minister that per­ haps he might either consider not spraying tnis partiCUlar area or, as he has ""',..,''' ;_,.., "'t-h"'r -".rP-"-"~ nf the Province which is near water suooUe,;, DAr.h;m,; hp '·~uld consider using the chemical '3t rather than - MR. POWER: Bt is a biological agent. MR. HODDER: I am sorry, did I say chemical? Well, the biological agent - MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! MR. HODDER: -Bt which from my understanding and my readings is less harmful than matacil and less chance of contam- ination. Mr.

Speaker, I would ask that this petition be tabled and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Re- sources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, in responding to the petition I just find it difficult to believe and even to understand that at this stage of the game that members of the Opposition or anyone else in the Province brings in to the House of Assembly a petition asking for a spray programme not to be conducted this year.

After what this government has gone through in order to make the know- ledge and information that we have to get the feelings and requests of all persons in Newfoundland, to have petitions coming in here 6653

-· June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2467 EL -2 MR. POWER: which have not directly come to the department, which makes one wonder whether it is a political request or whether is is a real request SOME HON. MEMBERS: Come on! MR. POWER: I mean if a person -if we are going to spray in any given block in Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, and the persons who are so concerned and so directly involved cannot even approach the department - MR. HODDER: A point of order, ~tr. Speaker. NR. SPEAKER (Simms): A point of order has been raised by the hon. member for Port au Port. MR.

HODDER: The minister when he was speaking there made a reference that this_petition was a political petition. I might tell the minister that this.petition is on its way to him, they asked me to present it because I am their member. 6634

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2468 NM - 1 MR. HODDER: I received it one day ago and I resent, Mr. Speaker, that the minister would stand on his feet and tell the people of Kippins that they are being political when all they are trying to do is to protect the area where crops are grown, where cattle graze, and which they traditionally use for fishing and hunting. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! Order, please! This is not a point of order obviously.· The hon. member is taking an opportunity - MR. HODDER: And by the way, I will take his comments and send them out to them, every single one of them. MR.

SPEAKER: Resources and Lands. -to make some comments. The hon. Minister of' Forest MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I said simply, and obviously the member besides having problems with other parts of his anatomy also has problems hearing, I said that if the thing is as serious as that, then obviously the direction should be made directly to the department, directly to the field staff of the Department of Forest Resources and Lands who are responsible for implementing the spray programme. Now if, Mr.

Speaker, if persons are so concerned I just wonder how many persons who signed the petition also went to the public hearings that were held by the Royal Commission into Forest Protection in Newfoundland, how many persons who signed the petition, including some members opposite who in discussions in this House acknowledged the fact that they had not read the Royal Commission Report, had not bothered to take the time to do their homework, had not bothered to find out the fact of why certain spray blocks were being sprayed, had not bothered to find out the economic value of certain given spray blocks, still they do not seem to know the difference between bacteriological agents and chemical agents, 6G3S

~,... June 15, 1981 Tape. No. 24 6.8 NM - 2 MR. POWER: And Mr. Speaker, it is just another case, as I see it, of the Liberal Opposition on one hand saying they are for a spray programme, for the protection of our forests, for the fact of saving 5,000 or 6,000 permanent jobs MR. "!ORGAN: MR. POWER: No, they are opposed to it. -and on the other hand they are trying to get the political value of persons who oppose the spray programme. Mr. Speaker, this government has done everything that was humanly possible to inform the people of Newfoundland of the high priority areas for protecting our forests.

SOME HON. 11EMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) Order, please: MR. POWER: We have done everything we. possibly can. We have gone to the Newfoundland Medical Association. We have gone to the federal government and got a licenced chemical which they have done testing on, and we are using that chemical in certain parts of Newfoundland, upon the recommendations of an impartial royal commission that went to every part of Newfoundland - MR. HODDER: MR. POWER: Why the (inaudible) zones? -was willing to speak with anyone, was willing to speak with anyone, was willing to give information to anyone. We have done that.

We have gone to the Newfoundland Medical Association, to the best doctors we have in the Province, they have given us advice that if we use chemicals like we say we are going to do then they are perfectly safe. It is simply another case, Mr. Speaker, of the Liberal Opposition sitting on a fence 6656

June 15, 1981 MR. POWER: budworms on the fence. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. FLIGHT: Tape No. "2469 and I just hope there are no Hear,hear! Mr. Speaker. EL - l The hon. member for Windsor -Buchans. Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe the arrogance we just heard from· this minister. He wants to deny the people of Newfoundland the right -we denied them the right to go to the courts to protect their property. We - AN HON. MEMBER: Who? Who? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Order! MR. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, we denied the people of Newfoundland the right to go to court to protect their pro­ perty and their water systems. Now, we are going to deny them the right. to petition the minister to consider something they want considered. Mr. Speaker, this minister and this government indicated to the people of Newfoundland - MR. POWER: Read it, boy, read the Royal Commission. MR. SPEAKER: MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. POWER: you would know what Bt is. MR. SPEAKER: au Port - MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I only presented that petition - Order, please! If you had read the Royal Commission - Order, please!

I must ask the hon. member for Port The petition asked you to use Bt. Order, please! The hon. member for Port au Port and the hon. the minister if they wish to have a conversation, perhaps it might be more appropriate outside the House, 6G57

~-s-~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2469 EL - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): because we cannot hear what debate is going on in the House because of the shouting. The hon. member for Windsor -Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, in attempting to sell this spray programme to the people of Newfoundland, a spray pro­ gramme that we apparently needed or the people of Newfoundland was convinced that we needed, a~d in order for the people to accept it, they also accepted the word of this government that the voices or the concerns the responsible groups around this Province would be listened to; their concerns would be listened to and be taken into account .. Now, Mr.

Speaker, we have a situation where the people of Kippins come to the minister with a petition asking not to have their fields, their crops sprayed with matacil, to use Bt. And what does the minister say? The minister says, Mr. Speaker, they are playing politics.

Well, let me ask the minister this, and it is in keeping with the petition, Mr. speaker: Did the Exploits Valley regional water supply board, were they playing politics when they wrote the minister two or three weeks ago - got no reply, I might say; got no reply from the minister -when they asked him to reconsider their spraying of their water supply, the water supply of the _9eople of Grand Falls, Bishop's Falls, Windsor - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please1 First of all, if the Chair may, it may be the same point of order but I want to, first of all, address myself to this.

The hon. member is now asking a question, which is entirely out of order. That should be done during Question Period. The discussion underway now is a discussion on a petition that has been presented by the hon. member for Port au Port (J. Hodder) . I would hope that members would try to keep their comments more towards the petition rather than enter into Question Period or debate or anything else. The hon. member has a different point of order? 6658

•' " -.. June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2469 EL -3 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: At least four members of this House have seen copies of correspondance that I have had with the Ex- ploits Valley ,..,ater supply committee. Therefore I have not, as the member 6558

;z._ "-"" June 15, l9.8l, Tape 24 70, Page-l --apb MR. POWER: just said, re£used, or not answered my mail, There are at least four persons in tne House. who f!ave s:ee.n it, If the member was aware of· wfiat is happening in that district or that part of Newfoundland, he would know the problem has been rectifieq. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary. MR. STIRLING: A point of order. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!" MR. SPEAKER (Simms} : If I may I will deal with thls point of order first. I can only deal with one at a time. MR. STIRLING: point of order. MR. SPEAKER: hon. the Leader of the. Oppos:i.tion.

I want to speak to that Oh, I am sorry. The MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the reason that my colleague made the: comments is that we are getting this kind of frustrati.on from all over the Province. And all they are looklng for is reassurance and answers. Now, Mr. Speaker, they are getting so arrogant on the other side that if anybody dares questi.on they get dumped on from the highest order and say how dare they do anything other than through the minister? Mr. Speaker, that is why -to that point or order ·-he got involved with other questions. It was a rhetorical question. MR. SPEAKER: Yes.

The Chair is really - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: I did not ask for an explanation why. I must say that really there is no point or order. What the han. minister raised was clearly -I do not know what it is, it is not a point of order. 6660 !-

June lS, l98l, Tape 24 70., Page 2 -aph MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Tli.e hon. the member for Winds·or -Buchans CMr. FlightL has about one minute remaining. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speak.er, I will try to attemtp to avoid asking questions, but in supporting ~: ~ ... ?~) the peti.ti.on, Mr. Speaker, I support the peti.tion in the light that there are concerns in my own di.strict and all ~ . over Newfoundland, the same kinds of concerns as expressed by the people of Kippins. AN HON. MEMBER: And Port Rexton. MR. FLIGHT: And Port Rexton. And th.e minist·er indicate-s that he does indeed answer his mai.l.

Well, that may well be-so, but he certainly did not answer it to· the satisfacti.on of my constituents, of the people who are concerned about the water supply of w-indsor, Grand Falls, Bishop's Falls when he sprayed,becaus.e they were forced the day before yesterday, Mr. Speaker, to wire the Premier, to wire the minister - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!-, MR. FLIGHT: -and point out that they had not received answers to their correspondence. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: And, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ The hon. member should keep his comments to the peti.tion - MR.

FLIGHT: That is to the. petition. MR. SPEAKER: -presented by the hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, that is in keeping with th.e peti.tion - MR. SPEAKER: No, it certainly is not. MR. FLIGHT: -that th.e. people of Port au Port are opposing a cfl.emical sp.ray programme - 6 G 5 ·1

~ .. '.;.;:....._· ~ Junel5.1 19.8.l, Tape 2470., Pag~3 -apo MR. SPEAKER (Simms l.: I trust t.h.e lion, member has. fteard wh.at I just .ruled? ~. FLIGRT : And, l'lr. Speaker , I would indicate to Your Honour t.fi:at constituents of mine have. indicated to tfie: roin.i:.ster - MR. SPEAl<ER: That is debate. MR. FLIGHT: -in the. same sense as t.l'l.e people of Kippins, tnat they are concerned about the indi~ctiminate use of chemicals in tneir water supplies, in their fields, in their vegetable crops. And, ~1r . Speaker , I a:m saying that the minister should take those concerns seriously.

And if he. ~orants the peop.l.e of Newfoundland to continue to support ~s spray programme, to have any confidence in what :it is going to accomplish,, that h.e lvill take their concerns into consideration. And there. is evidence at this po.int in ti:me, Mr. Speaker, tnat he has not tak.en the. concerns o.f those various responsib.le groups. into consideration and the messages are going to keep coming - MR. SPEA!a:R: Order, please! MR. FLI.GHT: -and the peti t.i.ons wiH ke.ep coming . MR. SPEAKER: The non·. member's time has e..xpired. 6652

---~i ~ .. June 15, 1981, Tape 247~, Page~ --ape ORD~S OF THE: DAY MR. MARSHALL: Order 4. On motion, the following bills were read a tfiird tLme, ordered passed and the~ titles be a~ on the Order paper. A bill, "An Act Respecting The Freedom Of Information" . CBill No. 3 t. A bill, "An Act Respecting The Protection Of Pers-onal Privacy••. (Bill No. 2) . A bi.ll, "An Act To Repeal The Canada Bay Lumber Company LLmited (Agreement) Act, 1974". (Bill No. 24)_. A bill, "An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensati.on Act,.. (Bill No. 4 7) . A bill, "An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act, 1973". (.Bill No. 41l..

A oill, "'An Act Respecting The Department Of E"nvironment". (.Bill No. 4 l • A bill, ••An Act To Amend The Newfoundland And Labrador Rousing Corporation Act For The Purpose Of Integrating The Newfoundland And Labrador Housing Corporation And The-St. John's Housing Corporation". (.Bi.ll No. 19) . A bill, "An Act To Amend And Consolidate The Law Respecting Boilers, Pressure Vessels And Compressed Gas''. (Bill No. 28). A bill, "An Act Respecting Amusement Rides" . (.B.ill No . 2 9 ) . A bill, "An Act Respecting The Drilling Of Water 'tle.lls And Cons-ervati.on And Use Of Ground-Water". (Bill No. 6).

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Historic Objects, Si"':.es And Records Act, 1973". (B.ill No. 18). 6653

... -~~ ,.,;...-.. June 15, l98l, Tape 2472, Page~ --apb A bill,

An Act To Amend Th.e Landlord And Tenant -(Residential Tenancies)_ Act, l973 (No. 2)..-. (Bill No. 88J. MR. MARSHALL: Order 3. Concurrence debate (_Government Se.rvi.ces Coromi.ttee) . MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Concurrence debates on the report of the Government Services Estimates Committee. On the last day debate was adjourned by the non._ the member for Gr'and Bank, who has: nine minutes remaining. We have a total, incidentally, of two hours and forty-nine minutes remaining in this debate. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Is that all? Yes. The hon. the. member for Mr.

Speaker, first of all I want to repeat what r said in this House, I believe it was last Monday, that the. government have not only mismanaged the. affairs of this Province, but are now mismanaging the affaLrs of the. House .. Let the word go out, Mr. Speaker, to the media in this Province that it is not the Oppositi.on •.vho call the orders in this Hous.e. It is. the gove-rnment who plan and call the orders in the House. The Opposition is forced to debate-whateve-r governme.nt calls. Now they have adopted a new policy, Mr. Speaker, a new philosophy, they are saying that the - MR. HANCOCK: He got to go.

He cannot listen. MR. NEARY: They have. a pat answer now for not being able to pay their bills:, they are s-aying, 'Oh, we do not have the estimates passed. So •.ve_ are still ope-rating on interim supply and in various Headings where the interim supply is used up we cannot pay our bills, 6554

June l5, l98l, Tape 2472, Page 2°--apb MR. N-EARY: and we cannot do thLs and we cannot do that. We cannot do anythLng because we do not have the estimates passed through the Rouse.' Well, the reason the estimates· are. not passed through the House is the fault of the government and not the fault of .. , ..:.~; j4-"" the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, we would want to be. a pretty powerful Oppositi.on -there are only eighteen or nineteen of us-to overrule thLrty -how many? thi.rty-thre.e. The government has: the majority and they are supposed to be governing thi.s Province.

And since when dLd a minor·Lty overrule a maj ori.ty? MR. HANCOCK: Hear, hear! Never. MR. NEARY: The government can do what it likes in thLs Rouse. and i.s doing i.t. If the. government wanted the estimates pass·ed they would have had them passed. What they are trying to do, Mr. Speaker, they are. trying to get a little political mileage., a little propaganda for themselves. In fact, 'i'le heard the President of the. Council (.Mr. Marshall) thLs. morning saying that the Opposi.tion is wasting the time of the House. The Oppositi.on is wasting the time of the House? Well, what about the government?

What about the government memb.ers 1 Mr. Speaker? They are not wasting the time. of the House at all. It is· only the Opposition I who are trying to do their jobs, who are trying to debate legislation, to debate estimates, to ask questLons and to get information for the people of this Province; we are wasting the time of Rouse so the hon. President of the Council th.inks. And the reason now that nothLng is being done in the way of paying bills or carrying out government programmes, is because they do not have the. estimates passed. They could have had the estimates passed two weeks ago in this House. They 6665

-'~ June 15, -198l, Tape 2472, Page. 3 -apb MR. NEARY: developed a strategy in tftis session of the. lfouse. that ·they are going to debate bills on Thursday-and Friday, they are going to have the Throne Speech. and tne Budget S'peecli on Monday and Tuesday and bills on Th.ursday and Friday. Now, Mr. Speaker, that b.as backfired, it is not t.rorlling. And as a result of the government's 6666

--~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2473 AH -1 MR. NEARY: strategy, of the government's planning we are running .well behind in the work of this House and the way we are going now, Mr. Speaker, we will be here till Regetta Day if not Labour Day. And we are not apologizing for that, the Opposition is not making any excuses. We do not want to get out of the House. We are satisfied to stay here if we have to till Christman Eve and we are going to, Mr. Speaker.

We are going to do that to make sure, we are going to make sure that the Government House Leader especially is not / going to get his own way, that he is not going to bulldoze everything through at the last minute. So han. members may as well sit back and relax and enjoy themselves because I can see with the number of items on the - MR. HANCOCK: boy. MR. NEARY: for another two months. AN HON. MEMBER: 11R. NEARY: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: You might as well get used to it, -Order Paper we are here at least How many are (inaudible) . Beg your pardon? How many are (inaudible) .

And our caucus, as hon. members can see, is broken up now into two shifts. One shift is out and they will be back next week or the following week, and the other seven or eight will be here during that time, and then anybody who wants to go will leave and take his vacation and come back again. And that is the way it should be, Mr. Speaker. So hon. gentleman better dig in for a long session. And, Mr.

Speaker, the arrogance of it is that the Government House Leader, who usually communicates, has dialogue with the House Leader on this side, so far this session has refused to have anything to do with the House Leader on this side. The House Leader is considered as dirt under his feet and so is anybody who does not conform to the han. gentleman's philosopgy, the Government House Leader. Anybody who does not kowtow to him is just dirt under his feet. Well, we will soon find out, Mr. Speaker. 6667

June 15 , 19 81 Tape No. 2473 AH - 2 MR. NEARY: But let me repeat again that the government could have had their estimates two weeks ago. The Opposition, in case anybody does not understand the procedure of this House, the Opposition are not wasting time, they are not holding up anything. We are here to approve every- thing that is good for the people and we are quite prepared to do that, but we cannot do it if the government does not call the bills or does not call the estimates and the order of business. There is nothing that we can do about it, Mr. Speaker. Our hands are tied.

I would have liked today to have the Budget Speech, tomor­ row dispose of the estimates and get on with the business of the Province. There is nothing we can do about it. We are bound by whatever the government House Leader calls. That is what we have to debate. Now, Mr. Speaker, we saw again today, another example of anti-Canadianism, we saw another example of separatism in this Province in reply to questions that we put to the hon. the Premier about the development of ·the Lower Churchill and the recall of power from the Upper Churchill.

The hon. gentleman unleashed his usual anti­ government, anti-Canadian attack on the Government of Canada. Now we are not surprised at that, Mr. Speaker. We have become accustomed to it and so have the people of this Province in the last couple of years become accustomed to that strategy, to that tactic, and as a result, Mr. Speaker everything in this Province is grinding to a halt, 6G6B

June 15, 1981 Tape 2474 EC -1 MR. NEARY: everything is grinding to a halt. We are slipping backwards. We have the worst year in our whole history in the construction industry in this Province, the worst year. MR. HANCOCK: The second worst. last vear was the worst. --·-.. ---... _ -· ~. MR. NEARY: No, this is the worst year. Last year was bad, this year is worse. ~~e have chaos in the fishery. As a result of no provincial fishery policy,we have chaos in the fishery. We have the worst year in the construction industry. And, Mr. Speaker, generally speaking, the economy of this Province is grinding to a halt.

We are in a recession. I AN HON. MEMBER: What? MR. NEARY: We are in a recession at the moment, a major recession, and hon. gentlemen cannot blame it on anybody else except themselves. Now, Mr. Speaker, as I say, we have become accustomed to this anti-Canadian, this separatism that is being developed in this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: Why do you not talk sense? MR. NEARY: I am going to talk sense now and I am going to tell the House how I think this feeling of anti-Canadianism, this anti-confederate feeling, this separatist feeling is creeping into this House. The trouble is, Mr.

Speaker, that there are certain members of this House who have never accepte.d the fact that Newfoundland voted for Confederation on the second referendum. When the vote was taken in this Province there had to be two referendums, as hon. gentlemen will recall. The first time there was not a majority and the second time, Confederation r..ron, but only by a very small margin. Now there are members in this House who have never accepted that fact, especially St. John's members, and they have control of the Province 6G69

.. ,..., June 15, 1981 Tape 2474 EC -2 MR. NEARY: at the moment, they have control of the Cabinet. As I have said so often, seven out of eleven St. John's members are in 'the Cabinet. And this is why, Mr. Speaker, this anti-confederate, this separatist movement, this anti-Canadian movement is permeating this House. Well, I know I really have not hit my stride yet,·so I will sit down and let somebod¥ xntervene and then I will come back to why I think we have this anti-Canadian ~olicy deve.loped by this government. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): and Manpower. MR. D.INN: The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr.

Speaker, I do not know how long we are going to sit in this Bouse. Certainly, we will be here long enough to get government business through; we will be here long enough to get the budget approved; we will be here long enough to get the important pieces of legislation through. And the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) is not going to threaten this !:louse and we are not going to kowtO\o/ to him as we are not going to kowtow to anybody else, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is the hon. gentleman got up in his place in the House, :.u-. Speaker - ~lR. NEARY: t1r.

Speaker, A ?Oint of order. let us have a quorum call to see if we can get a few people in who might want to listen to him. 6670

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2475 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : I ask the Clerk to count the members. We have a quorum. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Now, Mr. Speaker, we talk about delaying the House. Mr. Speaker, did anybody see any sense in what the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) did that time or does anybody see any sense - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: He ran out of the House. A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! A point of order raised by the hon. Mr. Speaker, I would not want a statement like that to stand on the public record.

The statement was either made out of ignorance of the rules of the House or just plain downright ignorance , but the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that it is up to the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) or the Government Whip to see that th.ere is a quorum in this House and not the Opposition. And the hon. gentleman should vli thdraw that statement he made because we, Mr. Speaker, by having quorum calls are merely pointing out that the government are unable to keep sufficient members in the House to participate in the people's business,.especially the debates that are going on in this House. MR.

DINN: There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: It is quite clear in Standing Orders any member can direct the Speaker's attention that there is not a quorum in the House. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: NR. DINN: Right on. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for LaPoile is just continuing to waste the time of the House with points of order and with - 6 6 7 ·1

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2475 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: A point of order again, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please! A point of order raised by the hon. member for LaPoile. 7-~r-MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman is in enough hot water now without getting into hot •.vater with Your Honour. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman just made a statement that is completely untrue. Mr. Speaker, even if I wanted to I could not waste the time of the House.

It is up to the government -the government calls the order of business, the government is responsible for keeping a quorum in this House, keeping members in while government business is being transacted-not up to me; it is the hon. gentleman now who is standing to speak who is wasting the time of the House. The hon. gentleman could stay in his seat, say nothing and the business of the House would go ~~ -~ just the same, because what he is going to say is irrelevant anyway. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, there is really no point of order but merely the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) took an opportunity to make a brief explanation. The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower has about six minutes left. MR. DINN: The hon. member for LaPoile during his few remarks here in the House got up and said that the bottom is out of her, Mr. Speaker, th.e bottom is out of the Province, we are into a depression, we are into a recession, we are into just about everything, 11r. Sfleaker. Well the fact of the matter is, :\'lr. Speaker, is that this Province is moving alon~ fairly well, not as ~ood as it should, not as good as it will, Mr. Speaker, in th.e future,but it is 66/2

-:f"~;,.. •' June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2475 so -3 l-1R. DINN: really moving along, Mr. Speaker. Now how can I look at the statistics and figure out how this Province is moving ahead? Well, Mr. Speaker, that is fairly simple. Ron. members who get every month statistics from Statistics Canada should know just by reading those statistics that we are moving ahead. Last year 9,500 jobs, Mr. Speaker, in this Province and the year before well over 9,000 in this Province; the unemployment rate continues to go down and they will be shocked, frightened to death, Mr. Speaker, when it goes below 10 per cent, shocked to death.

Now, Mr. Speaker, what do the figures say? Ron. members should know; I keep telling hon. members but it is not getting in, it is not getting across and, Mr. Speaker, I '"ant to make sure th.at hon. members understand what is happening in this Province with respect to employment. MR. HANCOCK: I kno1• what is happening with unemployment. MR. DINN: There are still -yes, the unemployment rate is going down. The hon. member for St. Mary's -The Capes (Mr. Hancock) wants to know, yes, it is going down. The employment rate is going up, Mr. Speaker, and the outward migration, Mr. Speaker, that statistic is down. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. DINN: In the '60s it was 8,000. 6673

·.:;.~ ,._, June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2476 ow -1 MR. J. DINN: Now, Mr. Speaker, we are down just a little over 1,000. The hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. N~) cannot take the facts, he has to leave the House, Mr. Speaker He just cannot take the truth~ And the truth will set us free! Now, Mr. Speaker, what is the record this year? Well, from January until May -that is the latest statistics that came out, they came out last week, January to'May, averaged over that period -we have had a total of 9,800 more jobs this year, January to May average,over last year. Now, Mr.

Speaker, that is performance~ That is per- formance, Mr. Speaker~ The bottom, contrary to what the hon. member for LaPoile says, is not· dropping out of her. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that the economy is in good hands. We will have an economic growth rate this year, Mr. Speaker, Setter than any Province in Canada, Mr. Speaker, of about 3 per cent to 3.5 per cent. The Canadian average, the Canadian Liberal average will be static or go down.

New- foundland, the economic growth rate of Newfoundland will go up 3 per cent to 3.5 per cent, the unemployment rate will go down, the employment rate will go up and we are all with it, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House. The participation rate will go up and has gone up. The employment figures clearly indicate to hon. members,if they care to read, if they care to understand 9,800 jobs more this year, month over month than last year. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us see how these figures come out. In January of 1980 we had 158,000 people ~rorking, in January of 1981, 172,000, Mr. Speaker.

That is 14,000 jobs more this year than last year. In February we had 175,000 this year, 163;000 last year. That is 12,000 difference, Mr. Speaker! That is simply mathemati~s! Up go the jobs! More jobs this year! 6674 I; ..

~-~ ....... I ~· ---r June 15, 1981 -· Tape No. 2476 DW - 2 MR. J. DINN: Down goes the unemployment rate! Up goes the employment rate! And, Mr. Speaker, hon. members opposite no matter what they say to the people of this Pro- vince cannot deny the figures. Are they my figures? Are they the figures developed by the Newfoundland Government? ::J No, Mr. Speaker, they are figures developed by Stat'istics Canada. Statistics Canada put them out every month. They may not be accurate, they may not be 100 per cent but they are the figures that we use.

The employment rate is gone up to well over now, over 4 6 per cent, t'he highest it has ever been. What is the employment rate? The employment rate is the number of people employed in the work force in the age group of fifteen years of age and over. The hon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) laughs at that. He does not think it is important! Not bread and butter! It is jobs! The hon. member for Bonavista North laughs at that. MR. L. STIRLING: No, it is you I am laughing at. MR. J. DINN: The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs.

Newhook) got up today and laid out the municipal capital works projects for the year and the hon. member got up and made a big laugh out of it. He thought it was a great joke! He thought it was a joke that the people in Trinity and Bonavista Bay were getting an extension to their water and sewer system this year. He thought it was a joke that Badger's Quay was getting money this year. He thought it was a joke, Mr. Speaker, in this House. I did not think it was a joke.

I think these people deserve it; these are Newfoundlanders and should be treated fairly in Newfoundland and not beause they are Liberal of P.C. 6675

..,;j -~~ ,..._ ..... June 15, 1981 Tape No·. 24 77 NM MR. DINN: but because they are Newfoundlanders and they should get a fair share in tfl.is Province. Parkers Cove, is that in a PC district? Another water and sewer system approved by the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook). And tha hon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) got up today, 1 Mr. Speaker, and what did he say? Well, Mr. Speaker, what did he say? He said, that the Government of Newfoundland announced $31, 500,000 programme and the people in the municipaities are going to pay for it all. Well these are just simply not the fact.

The paving programme is a 6Q/40 programme. That is not paid for 100 per cent by the municipalities, or 10 per cent. It is a 60/40 programme and generally there are times when they cannot meet the 40 per cent, Mr. Speaker. And the water and sewer programmes. If hon. members would check the figures they would find out that 75 per cent, 75 per cent of what has been approved in the past in water and sewer is paid for by the provincial government, Mr. Speaker. These are the facts. Hon. members opposite cannot get up and cloud the issues. They cannot get up, Mr. Speaker, and give inaccurate figures.

They have to listen to the facts. The facts are there for everyone to see, Mr. Speaker, and I am not going to sit here and listen to hon. members opposite get up and state these facts incorrectly. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : The hon. member for St. Mary's- The Capes. 11R. HANCOCK: remarks Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to have a few brief first of all on rr~hat the Minister of Labour and Manpower said. He did not mention anythin11 I do not know if he was ashamed to mention their local preference policy1 but 6G76

---.;:,.~i ,.,. ... June. 15, 1981 Tape No. 2477 NM-2 MR. HANCOCK: it seems to have di·ed off lately. It is something that I, as a Newfoundlander and as a Canadian, l-1r. Speaker, and I can combine the both and be proud of both., have a great deal of difficulty living with, or even ~upporting, ~r. Speaker. I think when you take away the fre.e. movement of Canadians throughout one end of this Country to the. other, Mr. Speaker, then we are in danger of doing away with Canada as a nation, Mr. Speaker.

I think if, for arguernent say that Alberta adopted such a policy tomorrow, I would pity the. unemployment rate -what the. unemployment rate would be in this Province two weeks from now or two months from now, Mr. Speaker. It would be unbearable. Only if one province in Canada adopted such a policy, Mr. Speaker, it is dangerous. It is very dangerous. I think the Minister of Labour and Manpower u~r. Dinn) and this entire administration, Mr. Speaker, should sit down and have a long, hard look at exactly what they are doing to this nation. It is a unique way of destroying it, Mr. Speaker.

If Ontario, Alberta, the Northwest Territories and British Columbia adopted such a policy or a philosophy that this government is adopting, Mr. Speaker, then I would hate like heck to see what our unemployment rate is going to be like in Newfoundland a year or six months from now. It is dangerous. It is just as dangerous as the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn). is himself, Mr. Speaker, when he intervenes in something that is none of his business, Mr. Speaker. It is just as dangerous and it is ridiculous to come up with such a policy, Mr. Speaker.

When we, as Canadians, cannot move and seek employment in one. part of this Country as compared to another, Mr. Speaker, then I think there is definitely something wrong. Mr. Speaker, r denouced~hat local preference policy from day one and I will continue to do so as long as I am elected to this House of Assembly and can speak against it, Mr. Speaker. 6G77

:_~ ... -~ ..... June 15, 1981 Tape NO. 2477 NM -3 R • H.l\NCOCK : It is as anti-Canadian as I can think of1 Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, that brings me back. to come of the comments that I have heard in my own district over the last number of weeks and months where people have said to me that they are very scared of this separatist attitude that - they see for themselves exactly 1-1hat this government is trying to do and they can analyze and discuss to me,as a person who represe-;ts them, exactly 1"ha t is happening, Mr. Speaker. And they are very concerned that the Premier o£ this Province is trying to protray to the rest of .::anadians that 6678 ~-

_-, ...._, . ~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2478 EL -1 MR. HANCOCK: Newfoundland is seen as an anti- Canadian province, Mr. Speaker. I think if we were into another election and the Premier had a five year mand:~te, I would not be a bit surprised if he did not go to the people on a referendum to determine whether or not they wanted to stay as they are now being a part of Canada or would they like to be their own little Canada being created from Newfoundland itself. I think the Premier of the Province is completely out to lunch. And,Mr.

Speaker, that ten page statement that was made on Friday was a prime example of an anti- Canadian attitude, Mr. Speaker. It is very dangerous when you see the Premier of this Province having to bring in a ten page statement defending Newfoundland and I think it is ridiculous. But I would like to get back to transportation, Mr.3peaker. I do not know what we have now for a Minister of Transportation (R. Dawe). He is never in his seat. He has not been here -well,I know he was off sick for a while but,Mr. Speaker, you know, you get over sickness and we have seen an absent Minister of Transportation.

We can say whatever we like about the previous Minister of Transportation,but he did attend the House and he did put up with the flak that he had to put up with from the people on the Opposition, Mr. Speaker. But we now have a minister who is very seldom in his seat. I do not know for what reason he is not there, if he is ashamed of policies that his government have introduced and the money they have spent, Mr.

Speaker, or what but he should be here more often and I think the acting Premier-well, he is not acting Premier now because the Premier is here him- self -should see to it that the Minister of Transportation is in his seat more often. 6679

• .· June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2478 EL - 2 MR.HANCOCK: But, Mr. Speaker, I would like to once again, I do not know if it is any good speaking about the problems that one if faced with in his or her district in this House of Assembly or not because it seems for one to go u~~oticed, Mr.Speaker, nobody seems to give a damn what happens in parts of Newfoundland, especially in the district that I represent where we still have lOS miles of dirt road. I have presented petitions in this House, Mr.

Speaker, time and time again from different communities and the same communities calling on this administration to do something about the roads, and nothing has been done about it, Mr. Speaker. I would like to know what happens to petitions when you do present them in this House. Are they just thrown in the garbage or are they laid on the Table. of the House and left there forever and nobody pays any attention to them or what? Those petitions, Mr. Speaker, mean a lot to people who cir­ culate them.

It is a lot of hard work to circulate a petition to come up with a thousand names and s:o on and it sh.ould not be treated lightly. But, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out to the Minister of Transportation (R. Dawe) and the Minister of Fisheries(J. Morgan) once again how much fish was landed and hauled over sections of dirt roads in my district last year alone. I have statistics here for two years, Mr. Speaker. First of all, in Trepassey last year in an eight month period, there wereg.6 millions pounds of fish trucked over that

section of dirt road and from St. Shotts a total of 2.6 million pounds of fish was trucked over dirt roads, Mr. Speaker, and nobody seems to give a damn what happens to the quality of ffiish that comes out. It is hard enough to get into the markets as 6GBn l;

·-~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2478 EL -3 MR. HANCOCK: they are but I am afraid in years ahead that we are going to have a harder job getting into the European market or the American market with the quality of fish that is being trucked over dirt roads, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. HANCOCK: The Minister of Forestry (C.Power) said to me the other day that the road was going to be paved from the Witless Bay Line -that the Witless Bay Line was going to be paved this year. Well, I can assure the minister, Mr.

Speaker, that is the day this House if going to come down if that Witless Bay Road is paved before sections of road in my district and I will bring it down one way or another, Mr. Speaker, because it ~s ridiculous. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HANCOCK: You can get from one end of your district to the other through pavement, Mr. Speaker, but you cannot - AN HON. MEMBER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HANCOCK: It will be paved by September. Oh, oh! You have a good memory, Mr. Speaker. and the day it is announced in this House,and you can mark it down, Mr. Speaker, if that Witless Bay line gets paved before this

section of road I am talking about here gets paved, that is the day this House is going to come down, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. HANCOCK: Yes, Sir. ~~d you are in trouble. People have to travel, Mr. Speaker- I am just taking one

section of road;Qn the

section of road from Trepassey through to St. Vincent's and St. Shotts, Mr.Speaker, where people have to drive to work. I have 6 G a ·1

-· June 15, 1981 Tape 2479 EC - 1 MR. HANCOCK: have to drive to work. I have been talking to people who can only get two years out of a pickup·, Mr. Speaker, and then they have to trade it in and lose in the vicinity of $5,000 or $6,000 every two years. AN HON. MEMBER: Bad drivers'. MR. HANCOCK: It is not bad driving, it is bad road conditions, Mr. Speaker. But that is the attitude of this administration, Mr. Speaker, it is the bad drivers. Yes, there may be bad drivers, Mr. Speaker, but if they had good roads to drive over you sure as heck would not see $3,000 a year depreciation on a pickup.

A lot of people have said that the Tory administration is looking after their own districts. I do not agree with that, Mr. Speaker. I think this administration over there now is not concerned about the road conditions around this Province. Mr. Speaker, there is a basic need that everybody should not have any dirt roads in this day and age, but this administration seems to do nothing or very little about it. I will go on record, Mr.

Speaker - and I have said it hundreds and hundreds of times in the past -roads in rural Newfoundland are the responsibility of this provincial government but they do not want to assume responsibility for them. AN HON. MEMBER: Or anything else. MR. HANCOCK: And I congratulate Mr. Carter,and I have done it in the past. He did a great deal of road work in the district that I now represent, Mr. Speaker, but it was nowhere near enough and that is probably why I got elected in the first place, because they are poisoned at the attitude of this administration. In the past two years we have seen nothing under 6632

June 15, 1981 Tape 2479 EC - 2 .MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Peckford and his government . We have seen very little road construction work around .this Province. It is about time that they started looking after the needs of the people who elected them, Mr. Speaker. They do have a majority. They are abusing their majority. I tried o~ several occasions to have sections of that dirt road placed on a priority list with Ottawa, a shopping list to go to Ottawa, Mr. Speaker, butwith no success. The previous minister ignored it and it looks as if the new Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) is going to ignore it.

It is not good enough, Mr. Speaker. If they cannot negotiate with Ottawa over there, Mr. Speaker, there may be some people on this side of the House who can negotiate with them if you approach them in a reasonable and sensible manner. That brings me to another point, Mr. Speaker. It is a wonder that we get anything out of Ottawa with the attitude displayed towards Ottawa by this administration, Mr. Speaker. It is a wonder we get any road programmes signed whatsoever. It is a wonder that we had the Labrador Straits road signed. The Premier went looking fcr$100 million and he got $30-odd million.

They are like a bunch of children, they want all or nothing, Mr. Speaker. It is all or nothing with this administration. We saw the member for St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) get up and criticize the federal government for giving them $38 million,or whatever it was tor road work that was the entire responsibility of this provincial government, Mr. Speaker. Ottawa stepped in and helped out. They did not have to, because this provincial government was responsible for that

section of road. I do not know why they did it, Mr. Speaker. It was not their responsibility, it was the responsibility of this local government, the 6Sa3

•r. June 15, 1981 Tape 2479 EC -3 MR. HANCOCK: Tory Government which we now have, in fact, and Ottawa gave them $38 million, and what did they get? .r.. kick in the teeth for it, Mr. Speaker. They got a kick in the teeth for giving $38 million to a Tory responsibility. MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): The hon. member's time has expired. MR. HANCOCK: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am finished, but I will be back later on. SOME HON. ~~ERS: Hear, hear! 1-iR. NEARY: i'tr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER The bon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I will give my hon. colleague another opportunity to have a go, but I just want to follow up on something he said a few minutes ago about the list that was tabled in the House today of municipal water and sewer projects. AN HON. MEMBER: Are we doing Municipal Affairs? MR. NEARY: Yes, we are doing Municipal Affairs, that is one of the items. The list tabled the other day, Mr. Speaker -I remember in this Rouse when the Tories were in Opposition in this Province. One of. the great criticisms they had of Mr.

Smallwood was that he selected the projects -so they said -along partisan political lines and not in order of priority. Well, Mr. Speaker, how much have things changed? How much have things changed in this Province? 6664

~~- June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2480 ah - 1 MR. NEARY: Nothing has changed! The projects are still -and more so today -selected blatantly along partisan political lines. And some of the projects mentioned today I might - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: MR. BARRETT: MR. NEARY: That is perfectly logical. I beg your pardon? What is that? That is perfectly logical. That is perfectly logical. Well, hon. gentlemen may thing it is logical but I have news for the han. gentlemen, that the people of Newfoundland are fed up with that kind of policy. They are fed up with it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

NEARY: The people of this Province, when the time comes in the next election,will turf the hon. gentleman out whether or not they were fed information under the table by the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook) or by the Minister of Transportation lMr. Dawe). Mr. Speaker, eaten bread is soon forgotten and as soon as - the chickens will come horne to roost -as soon as the property tax is imposed on these people to make them pay for these announcements that ministers made today -and I might say this, Mr.

Speaker, that when there is good news to be announced in this Province the government feeds the information out to their ministers and backbenchers instead of allowing the mayors and the municipalities, who have elections corning up in November of this year -they upstage the mayors and the councillors, they upstage them and in a shameful fashion they try to get a little political mileage for themselves. They do not realize, Mr. Speaker, the damage that they are doing. Because first of all, it turns off the mayors and councillors, because if there is any good news they are the ones who should be announcing it.

But then when it comes to bad news, like implementing the property tax, they leave that up to the mayors and councillors, let them bear the brunt of it. And so, Mr. Speaker, let nobody be under any illusions - ssas

~~--- June 15,1981 Tape No. 2480 ah-2 MR. NEARY: -my hon. friend alluded to it that this is just a political game the government is playing and that political game will catch up with them. Because there is nothing in either one of these lists that were announced that will save one member's hide on that side of the House or save the government. Not one item that was announced will save a member or save the government. So they may as well, Mr. Speaker, they may as well face up to it. Now,a few moments ago I started to deal with the anti-confederate, the anti-Canadian, the separatist movement in this Province.

I talked· about two referendums and it took a second referendum for Confederation to win. Now, Mr. Speaker, where was the anti-Canadian, where were the anti-confederates? They were concentrated mainly in the St. John's business establishments. That is where the anti-Canadians were. And where are the anti- Canadians today in this Province? Still on that side of the House, Mr. Speaker. When the day of Confederation came in this Province, Mr. Speaker, you looked around in the areas that were predominantly anti-confederate, you looked around and what did you find in Newfoundland? You found flags flying at ~alf-mast.

MR. MARSHALL: A point of order. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) A point of order. The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The order called was Concurrence !·1otions, Gove~nt Services Committee, the deliberations of the Government Services Committee, I do not see what possible relevance there can be to the Confederation battle in 1949. As the hon. gentleman might know,we are talking 6666

:-:" .... ~ .- June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2481 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: about the estimates for 1981/82. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Oh, oh. To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, the hon. Mr. Speaker, we are talking about development in this Province--t1unicipal Affairs, Public Works and Services, Labour ahd Manpower, Finance, Mr. Speaker, which, in itself,just that item alone,would give you a wide scope, F-inance. MR.

SPEAKER: To the point of order let me say that during the Concurrence debates the debate is somewhat wide-ranging but I believe the hon. member was perhaps getting into toobig a broader area in the Concurrence debates. So, indeed,I think there was a legitimate point of order. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the reason-I am giving the reasons why we have this anti-confederate, this separatist feeling that is stymieing, that is hindering development in this Province, the anti-confederate feeling that has put Newfoundland into a major recession. And the Minister of ~abour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) who got up a few minutes ago lipping off about all the jobs that have been created in this Province in the last couple of years, should go out and tell the people who are unemployed. It is a pity, Mr. Speaker, we do not have television in this House so that the unemployed, the people who are forced on Social Assistance and the people who are forced on unemployment insurance could not see the non-existent ~inister of Labour, the one gentleman in this Province who is anti-union,stand in this House and tell us about all the good times we have in Newfoundland. The reason we have poor times is because, Mr.

Speaker, this government, this crowd,have not accepted the fact that Newfoundland has become a Province of Canada, they 6Ga7

.;.:-.. :ll».r. June 15, 198,1 Tape No. 2481 SD -2 MR. NEARY: are still fighting the Confederation issue. And, ~1r. Speaker, hon. gentlemen will recall in that great battle, the greatest battle in Newfoundland's history that they are still fighting in this House, that the black flags did not only fly in this Province. but they fle1o~ at half-mast on the doorknobs, Mr. Speaker, of so many anti-confederates. '!!he Tory doorknobs were draped in black crepe paper and black crepe was hung on the gateposts as well.

Black crepe paper and black linen hung in the windows. ~or the Tories of this Provihce who ~<-tere so angry about it and so mad and so spiteful about Confederation,that they cried in the streets. The thought of Confederation, Mr. Speaker, came as a calamity to the hon. House Leader and to members sitting on that side of the House. It was a calamity. Well, why 1o~as it a calamity, Mr. Speaker?

It was a calamity because for the first time in Newfoundland's history, all over the Northeast coast the West coas~.the North coast,the South coast, the •t~hole territory of Labrador, th.e whole Province, for the Eirst time in its long history,was going to come into its own. 6658 t~

.-.-;.s,.: :?-~ .,..a.. ..... June 15, 1981 Tape 2482 EC -1 MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, we seem to be back again to the old Tory times where we have a government that is dominated and controlled by the business establish- rnent in St. John's, the Tory establishment. MR. YOUNG: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: Do you know who is anti-Confederate? Listen to the han. gentleman who carne over to Bell Island with the seat out of his pants sucking around, trying to scrounge off us over on Bell Island who were keeping Newfoundland afloat -with the seat out of his pants - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: -trying to get everything free, a freeloader. MR. YOUNG: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! A point of order has been raised by the hon. the member for Harbour Grace. MR. YOUNG: I would like to ask the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) to withdraw those remarks. MR. NEARY: What remarks? MR. YOUNG: That I went to Bell Island with the seat out of my pants. MR. NEARY: Yes, so you did. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. YOUNG: I have never had the seat out of my pants in my life, Mr. Speaker.

I can tell the hon. gentleman that I never sucked around for a job like he did on Bell Island. MR. NEARY: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. 6669 "'

:?.-l ~~~ ,.,.. ..... June 15, 1981 Tape 2482 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not raise the matter, the hon. gentleman raised it during his interruptions and if the hon. gentleman cannot take it he should not be interrupting. The hon. gentleman was typical of - MR. HANCOCK: Thatwas one of his rare speeches. MR. NEARY: Yes, it is one of the rare times that he has spoken in the House this session. But he was like a St. John's man - MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : The hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) is on a point of order? MR. NEARY: -he would come over to Bell Island and try to freeload off us on Bell Island. MR.

YOUNG: (Inaudible) . AN HON. MEMBER: Mr. Sneaker. MR. HANCOCK: MR. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order, Cocktail 'i'7illy is getting upset now. Order, please! Order, please! I would have to rule there is no point of order but a difference of opinion between two hon. members. I have to inform the han. the member for LaPoile that his time is now expired. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: Council. MR. MARSHALL : of Fisheries if he - MR. SPEAKER: Hr. Speaker. The hon. the President of the I will yield to the hon. Minister The hon. President of the Council yields to the 'hon. the Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Do not be wasting the time of the House boy. Sit down! 6690

-~~ .. , ....... June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2482 GS - 3 MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, there we go, "Do not be wasting the time of the House". We have a long Summer ahead of us, there is no hurry to get out of the House of Assembly, we have a long Summer! SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MORGAN: debating the issues - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MORGAN: same time - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt): SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! As long as we are going to be Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, at the Hear, hear! Order, please! Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, at the same time if they can applaud so -what? -adamantly and stay in the House. Every single day I walk over the steps of Confederation Building and bump into members of the Opposition, 'Jim, when is it going to close, Jim, when is it going to close, when is it going to close? Hey, Jim, get it closed, get it closed, see the Premier, get it closed. The weather is getting so nice we want to get out of here, I want to get home.' Every single day a member of the Opposition comes along and does that, and then he is standing in the House and says, 'Oh, we will stay all Summer, we will stay all Summer'.

Hello stay all Summer, hello stay all Summer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Now, Mr. Speaker, if you can stop this clapping -Mr. Speaker, can you stop this clapping? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, -hear! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, if you will stop this clapping, it is wasting time of the House, we are trying to do our work here. 6 6 9 .,

-~.;.i_-.;' June 15, 1981 MR. MORGAN: man who app-arently - MR. ST!RLlNG: Tape No. 2482 GS -4 Now, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentle- A point of ?rder, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: -the unfortunate thing, ~ir. Speaker, is that - MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : A point ~f order raised by the han. Leader of the Opposition. Order, please! A point of order raised by the ho-n. Leader of the Opposition. MR. MORGAN: Another spurious point of order. A waste-of-time poin·t of order. MR. NEARY: Sit down, do not be wasting the time of the House, sit down. You are only wasting time. MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries (~lr. ~!organ) does not understand - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, ob! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. STIRLING: -the Minister of Fisheries does not understa.nd our motive over here. We are applauding him every time he makes a good point, and the chances are very few that we get to applaud him and we were rea~ly applauding him. And that is why, you know, we will 6632 i;:-

June 15, 1981 Tape 2483 PK -1 MR. STIRLING: sit again and applaud and I presume he will say another great thing that we will applaud again, and again. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please! Order, please! --~: . I ,._, That is not a point of order . The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker , on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the han. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the non-existent Minister of Fisheries (Morgan) made a statement there a few minutes ago that some member corning up over the steps of Confederation every day asked the hon. gentleman - MR.

MORGAN: A different member every day. MR. NEARY: -and the han. gentleman says it was a member who stood in his place here today to take

part in this debate. Well,I am the only one so far,I believe. apart from my han. friend today - MR. HANCOCK: No I never asked him. MR. NEARY: And I want to say now, Mr. Speaker, just for the sake of setting the record straight - MR. MORGAN: This is no point of order, state your point of order. MR. NEARY: No. Hold-an now. You cannot make accusations against the Opposition, Mr. Speaker, unless you are prepared to name the members, !1R. HANCOCK: Name him! Name him! MR. NEARY: Now,the hon. gentleman should either name the members that he is talking about or - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: -refrain from that trend of thought, - MR. STIRLING: And withdraw it. 6693

--~: June 15, 1981 Tape 2483 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: -withdraw it and apologize to the House. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please! Once again there is no point of order. The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the tactics are that the Opposition are JOing to allow one member to stand on his ~eet and speak when he wants to, speak endlessly and say nothing, and then not listen to members of this side of the House speak, that is not going to get anywhere, The fact is that one gentleman in the House stands and speaks on everything that comes up, everything, whether it be squids, or whether it be develoFment of the Province, the constitution, Confederation, all matters regarding the Country and the world sometimes - SOME' IfON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR. MORGAN: - a knowledgeable gentleman o n all things.

Nobody else over there knows anything. SOME IfON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER MR. MORGAN: SOME' IfON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. POWER: in the T.V. cameras. MR. MORGAN: Order, please! Another one -call order, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear~ Order~. I think it is time to bring Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, with these kin~of childless tactics in the House that are going on right now,the Leader of the Opposition should be ashamed - MR. POWER: MR. MORGAN: MR. PO>-IER: MR. MORGAN: Yes, boy. -should be ashamed Control your caucus. This is th.e people's House here. Let us have some decency here. decency here.

Corne on! Have some 6694 k'

June 15, 1981 Tape 2483 PK -3 MR. POWER: There is no respect. MR. MORGAN: Playing these childis~ gam~s. MR. NEARY: Go sit down, boy! MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. _ ... "->?'~ -I MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : A point of order, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the minister has mentioned one word except to criticize the Opposition - MR. MORGAN: Iiow can I? MR. STIRLING: -about things that have nothing to do with the bill. Now the minister - MR. MORGAN: How can I? MR.

STIRLING: -has already indicated that the other side brought up a point of order dealing with relevance. Now, Mr. Speaker, it should deal with the relevance of the debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: That is a good point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Once again there is no point of order. I will ask the hon. minister to continue. He has about five minutes left. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, it is obvious t~t the Opposition members are afraid,when I get up to speak,of what I am going to say.

Because here is an example of four ooints of order raised, plus annoyance of the House,disreup- ion of the House, to prevent rre fran saying anything in debate. MR. NEARY: A point of order! A point of order! MR. MORGAN: Now, Mr.Speaker, here is a prime example of trying to keep one minister of this government quiet. 668J

-· June 15, 1981 Tape 2483 PK - 4 MR., SPEAKER (Butt) Order, please! MR. MORGAN: Well, they may keep me quiet in the House but I shall not be quiet outside of the House about thP kind of childish tactics displayed by the Opposition members. MR. SPEAKER: the hon. member for LaPoile. MR, MORGAN: LVIR. NEAR'l: Order, please! A point of order raised by Here we go again. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman indirectly is questioning Your Honour, questioning the Chair.Because the statement made by the minister that somebody on this side is disrupting the House is not only untrue and false, but it is a reflection on the Chair. I do not think that this House is being disrupted in any way, shape, or form. If the minister wants to carry on with his speech, Mr. Speaker, he can do so,but he cannot question the Chair in the process of doing that. I believe Your Honour has the House completly under control and I congratulate Your Honour for it. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! Once again - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, there is no point of order. But I want to point out that it is certainly unparliamentary for any hon. members to get up continuously on spurious points of order merely to interrupt - MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! 6696

Jnne 15, 1981 Tape No. 2484 DW - 1 MR. SPEAKER ~Butt) : -another member when he is speaking. Whether it is hon. members on my right or on my left,it is certainly not right and would ask hon. members to restrain themselves. Now,the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has about three minutes left. MR. J. MORGAN: Obviously, Mr. Speaker, since the time has gone now,I will not launch off in my few words of ten minutes, I will wait until the next ten minutes of my time. But to stand there and see them in this hon. House of Assembly wasting the time as it is being wasted by -controlled by the member for LaPoile.

There is no guidance over there from the Leader. The Leader. himself is not in control of his own.party, he is not in control of his own caucus SOME HON. MEMEi~RS: Hear, hear! MR. J. MORGAN: We have members over'there going off in different directions and causing disruption in the House. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. J. MORGAN: Now, Mr. Speaker, I have lots to say about the tactics of the Opposition trying to label our present Premier as a separatist and going out making these irresponsible statements. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. J. MORGAN: House, Mr. S~eaker. MR. P0~7ER: Hear, hear!

But I will have my say in this Bring in the T.V. carner~s and the Liberal Party 'will be wiped out. MR. J. MORGAN: The children games are played. These members of the House should be in nursery school, they should be in nursery school with this kind of tactic and kind of attitude and kind of respect for the House. 6697

::..a ..... · June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2·484 OW - 2 MR. C. POWER: Boys, you are really frustrated today! You are really frustrated today! MR. J. MORGAN: Frustration! Oh, are they ever frustrated! You cannot stop a member of the House from speaking when he wants to speak. You can try it now - I have tried to speak ten minutes. We are here with lots of time. I will get my chance to speak. Why stop me from speaking now? The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that because of the disruption they ?-re trying to prevent the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) in the provincial Cabinet from speaking in debate in the House.

They are trying to prevent me from speaking. Now, it only gives me encour- agement to speak lots more in the House. Now, I will wait my turn in the next ten minutes or so. MR. C. POWER: He cannot get keep you from getting re-elected so he has to get in your way some how. MR. J. MORGAN: How ridiculous! How ridiculous and crazy! MR. SPEAKER (Butt): The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. SOME HON. ~EMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. CALLAN: 'Jim' ,you are going to be a short lived Minister of Fisheries, my boy! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. member for Torngat Mountains has been recognized by the Chair. MR. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a few comments in the concurrence debates in particular concerning the Municipal Affairs Department and probably in the time get at the list of the capital "'arks. 6GSB

~r June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2484 ow -3 MR • G . l4ARREN : announced today. programmes that the minister Last year, Mr. Speaker-the Cabinet gave approval last year not this year and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) was a member of that Cabinet,to the town council of Nain for a guaran­ teed bank loan of $1 million. That was last year, Mr. Speaker, Not this year, last year! And as or today, Mr. Speaker, this Cabinet after getting the loan­ giving the town council a guaranteed bank loan -as of today they are still saying to the town council 'No'.

They already made a big announcement about it over a year ago and now at the present time they have their hands tied1 the town council in Nain1because they will not give them approval to borrow this $1 million after giving them approval in the first place. NO\-t, Mr. Speaker, on Februarv 5th. - 6689

~~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2485 GS - 1 AN HON. MEMBER: Tell the whole story. MR. WARREN: Yes, I will tell you the whole story and I will lay it on the Table,and I will lay it on the .Table, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on October the 3rd., 1980, the Nain Town Council wrote to the hon. minister and, Mr. Speaker, in this letter it says there, "Cabinet approved a proposal early this year" - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order! The hon. member. MR. WARREN: Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! Mr.

Speaker, I should have the protection of the Chair because I want to make a few comments, and I would appreciate the Minister of Fisheries clos.ing his yap. Now, Mr. Speaker, on February the 5th. the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook) asked the Nain Town Council would they give them a confirmation that they would repay back $170,000 a year. I will read you a letter, Mr. Speaker, that went to the minister on February the 5th, "This will confirm our intention to apply for the amount of $170,000 from the program of native people for the proposal of water and sewerage at Nain". Now, Mr.

Speaker, that is what they asked for. So the minister went back to the Cabinet and still that is somewhere between the minister's desk and in Cabinet and still and all the people in Nain are still waiting for this approval. Now, Mr. Speaker, on June the 3rd. the Nain Town Council became so frustrated with this government they sent a telegram·to the Premier, not getting any response from the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and here is what the telegram said that they sent to the Premier, "An immediate response is requested from your government in relation to the present status of the 6700

"9 .... . ...... _ ·' June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2484 GS - 2 MR. WARREN: proposed water and sewer system for Nain for which a government guaranteed loan was approved of approximately one year ago. Earlier this year the Nain Town Council met with the hon. Hazel Newhook, Minister of Municipal Affairs, at which time an agreement was reached in relation to the debt retirement of $170,000 per annum on the guaranteed loan. Five months later this Council still awaits official word whether or not the project will go ahead this Summer.

The Council was ..under the impression" -listen to these very invaluable words, very valuable words -"the Council was under the impression that your g9vernment was more responsive and responsible than it actually has been and we look forward to a more .satisfactory and speedier response than we have received in the recent past." And that is signed by the Chairman of the Community Council in Nain. Now, Mr. Speaker - MR. TULK: (Inaudible) . MR. WARREN: That was on June the 3rd. , Mr. Speaker. I spoke to the Nain Council again this morning and the only thing they got back, Mr.

Speaker, was from some Special Assistant in the Premier's Office saying, "I will bring the matter to the Premier". Now, Mr. Speaker, Friday they sent another telegram back to the Premier and said, "Sir, we would like to hear from you instead of from your Special Assistant. What are you going to do about it?" And Mr. Speaker, they have also said in their telegram, "Do you want us to continue to throw our slops and our garbage out the back door as we are compelled to do because of the lack of responsibility of this government?" Now, Mr.

Speaker, is this not a little bit ridiculous when you can see all those Municipal Capital Works programs guaranteed today and this one on the books over a year ago and this government does not even respond; The Premier for fourteen days - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shocking, shocking. r-, i""o ·I 0 I -...J I

..,.;.>i ~~ June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2485 GS -3 MR. WARREN: -for fourteen days-and he is the man who is supposed to be concerned about the people of this Province, !4r. Speaker. He is more concerned about going across Canada and talking about the constitution and talking about separating Newfoundland from Canada. That is what he is concerned about, Mr. Speaker, that is what he is concerned about. Be is not worried about 67li2 ,_

June 15, 1981 Tape No. 2486 IB-1 MR. WARREN: Newfoundlanders, all he is worrying about is making sure, I will get all I can get and get away from Canada, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, I am a bit disgusted - MR. HANCOCK: What an attitude the rest of ·::t:~ ...,...& -· ~; the Canadians have, they do not call it Newfoundland anymore they call it down East now. MR. WARREN: But when somebody, Mr. Speaker - MR. HANCOCK: Ashamed to call it Newfoundland. Newfoundlanders from horne are ashamed to call it Newfoundland .. MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR.

HANCOCK: Newfoundl!.anders say they are from down East now. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I ask the hon. member for St. Mary's-The Capes to restrain himself. MR. HANCOCK: Newfoundlanders on the Mainland now call themselves from down East, they do not call themselves Newfoundlanders anymore. They are ashamed, r.1r. Speaker. MR. WARREN: