May 5, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No.

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Colleagues, friends and visitors, this afternoon we have some very special

guests. For those of you who have been watching television today, you would have

seen the pictures and the scenes coming from Europe where there is a celebration

of the victory that Canadian troops helped make in World War II. Today, we

honour the veterans in our community, in our Province, and in our Nation.

I would like to take the opportunity today to introduce our special guests.

We do not usually name people sitting in the Speaker's gallery individually,

but today is a special day and I would like to do that, and indulge the House's

leave to do that at this time.

In the Speaker's gallery today we have - and I shall introduce people by

their titles, call them Comrad, ask them to stand, and hopefully we can get you

on television with our cameras that are going to beam down your way very

shortly: Comrad Bob Boland; Comrad Sid Butler; Comrad John C. Ford, whom people

will remember is the only Canadian survivor of the atomic bombing in Nagasaki;

Comrad Loretta Flynn; Comrad J. G. O'Grady; Comrad Samuel Johnson; Comrad

William Learning; Comrad Bob LeMessurier. I would ask if the people who have

been named would remain standing, if they could. Comrad Douglas McCarthy; Comrad

Anthony Reardon; Comrad Patrick Sheehan; Comrad Peter Winsor; Comrad Clarence

Chief Warrant Officer G. Desorcy; Lieutenant Commander Howard Harvey; and, from

our Corps of Commissionaires: Comrad Yves Choquette; Comrad Chuck Hapgood;

Comrad Frazer Stanley; and Comrad Tom Rodgers.

My colleagues, these are our very special guests today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: My colleagues will leave the House. We will vary the

proceedings. I will ask the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, whose

father, Jack Marshall, was the Commanding Officer of the Royal Newfoundland

Regiment, a former MP, a former Senator and the former Grand Patron of Royal

Canadian Legion, his son, the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to make

some comments.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise this afternoon to inform hon. members that

year to celebrate and honour the contributions and the sacrifices of our

Canadian war veterans. As Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we are proud to

support this tribute.

Throughout 2005, Canadians will recognize and pay tribute to all Canadian war

veterans who participated on the home front and overseas during times of

conflict. Newfoundland and Labrador has a proud history and a devotion to

honouring our veterans and 2005 marks a commemorative year to promote an

understanding of the significance of our veterans' achievements and sacrifice.

In support of the Year of the Veteran, this afternoon I had the honour and

the privilege, as the provincial Minister Responsible for Veterans Affairs, to

participate in a tree planting ceremony on the grounds of Confederation

Building. I was joined by honoured veterans and distinguished military officials

who are here with us in the House of Assembly this afternoon and who have been

duly recognized and honoured by hon. members.

This year Canadians will participate in events to recognize a century of

sacrifice. Throughout the Province, veterans' organizations are planning

commemorative celebrations in support of the Year of the Veteran. Other

significant dates for veterans include: the anniversary of the Battle of the

Atlantic that was held on May 1, the anniversary of Beaumont Hamel on July 1,

the sixtieth anniversary of Victory in the Pacific on August 12 and, of course,

Remembrance Day on November 11.

Mr. Speaker, 2005 marks the sixtieth anniversary of the end of the Second

World War. It is fitting that today I also make reference to the date of May 8

which marks V-E Day, or Victory in Europe Day, the celebration of the end of the

Second World War in Europe, in Canada and the Netherlands. In World War II, a

million Canadians and Newfoundlanders and Labradorians served in the Canadian

Armed Forces, in Allied Forces or in the merchant navy. More than 47,000 gave

their lives. Veterans Affairs Canada estimates that there are about 250,000

Canadians Veterans from World War II, 30,000 of whom are women.

It is also appropriate to acknowledge that the year 2005 marks the ninetieth

anniversary of the Gallipoli Campaign of World War I. Newfoundlanders made a

significant contribution to that campaign, forged a strong bond, and fought side

by side with citizens of Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, France and

India. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment was the only North American regiment

involved in the campaign; one hundred and twenty-four members of that Regiment

died or were wounded in the Gallipoli campaign.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, my colleague, the hon. Member for Trinity North,

introduced a motion asking for the support of all citizens of the Province to

seek out veterans and to thank them for the contributions that they have made in

preserving democracy, in restoring peace to the world, and to pay tribute to

those who gave their lives for our freedom.

I invite all members of this hon. House to wear the Year of the Veteran pin

on their lapels, and join with me in remembering the tremendous contributions of

our soldiers today and always. It is our responsibility to ensure that they are

never forgotten.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and a great pleasure to make a few

comments today on this very special day in our Legislature, and to commend

yourself, Mr. Speaker, for having our very special guests in your gallery and

for introducing them to ourselves in our Legislature, the House of Democracy,

and the home of democracy in Newfoundland and Labrador so that we could all

become better acquainted. A personal hello to one of my old golfing buddies down

there, who still sneaks around the golf course from time to time. He would not

any more cheat at golf than he would, I am sure, when he was serving the

country; always an honourable person and an honourable man.

Just a few brief comments, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Official Opposition

designating this year as the Year of the Veteran in the whole of our great

nation right from coast to coast to coast. I do congratulate as well the Member

for Trinity North who introduced the motion in our Legislature yesterday to give

special attention and pay special attention in our own Legislature with respect

to the same issue, a motion which was unanimously passed by this particular

Legislature yesterday.

As well, Mr. Speaker, I might point out that there have been a couple of

special recognition matters with respect to veterans in Newfoundland and

Labrador in the past. There is a special licence plate in Newfoundland and

Labrador for veterans, that they can use as their own significant licence plate.

The same as I use mine as an ordinary citizen, they use a special one for

veterans; that is available in Newfoundland and Labrador.

It was only a couple of years ago that we opened and named the Veterans

Memorial Highway, going on the north side of Conception Bay, because governments

in this Province, knowing the proud history and tradition in Newfoundland and

Labrador, and the involvement of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in the

military and in these kinds of issues long before we were a part of Canada, and

continually in the history of the Province, is something that deserves

recognition in Newfoundland and Labrador as much or more than anywhere in this

great country.

Just to make a couple of personal comments, I have often attended the Battle

of the Atlantic celebrations in Botwood, where the Legion there actually leads

the parade and the celebration each year. I am always impressed by the turnout

from the youngest to the oldest in the community. We have endured all range of

weather, as you can imagine, on May 1. It is almost like May 24 weekend; it

could be the sunniest weekend of the year or the coldest, with a blizzard going,

but it does not matter. In all range of weather over the past sixteen years that

I have had the good fortune to be there, a comment is made about the weather,

but everyone always says, it is the least we can do compared to those people who

were involved, and what they did when they were actually in the line of duty and

involved in these issues. It is always good to know that these kinds of things

are taken very seriously and always have been in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I am proud, as well, to see that our federal leaders have put aside their

political issues for a couple of days. They made a very good decision, in my

view, so they could all travel to Europe and be involved in the Victory in

Europe celebrations that are happening through this weekend and the early part

of next week.

As well, Mr. Speaker, I think it is days like today - and, again, I commend

you in organizing it in our Legislature - that give us all an opportunity to say

to our veterans repeatedly how much we appreciate what they have done, and an

opportunity to pass along to the next generations the hope that they, too, would

appreciate it and never, ever, forget the contributions that are made, and how

greatly we value the freedom and the democracy we have because of the

contributions made by our veterans.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed a pleasure to have an opportunity to see such distinguished

citizens in our midst today as representatives of the veterans from this

Province who served our country in war and in peacetime too, Mr. Speaker, to

ensure that we have and enjoy the kind of democracy that we have.

We have, from the Battle of Gallipoli through the Battle of the Somme, and,

of course, Beaumont Hamel in the First World War, through all of the battles in

the Second World War, in Korea, and even recently in Afghanistan or wherever our

peacekeepers have been in the last fifty years, we have seen dedicated

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians willing to serve, willing to risk their life in

the cause of democracy, in the cause of our country, and it is a great

opportunity for us to recognize what they have done for us.

It always amazes me, Mr. Speaker, and I know many of these veterans will have

experiences in person, to see, in Europe, the communities - we have seen them on

TV in the last number of days, in Holland, in France - when they remember,

venerate, and come out in droves to thank in person, and feel so strongly and

positively about the great liberation that they experienced from the Canadian,

and Newfoundland and Labrador, and American troops during the Second World War,

that they care for the graves of servicemen and women so meticulously and honour

them in a tremendous way.

Obviously, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador do not have that level of

closeness, but when you see that gratitude that is still experienced today, and

recounted every anniversary that we have, it really brings a lot of warmth to my

heart to know that their sacrifice has not been forgotten by the people who were

most directly affected by it.

I think, for all of us here in Newfoundland and Labrador, when we think about

our democracy, our way of life, we do know that we have the contribution and the

sacrifice of these men and women to thank. I think that I can speak safely on

behalf of all hon. members in this House when I say to you, and, through you, to

all veterans and service people who have served this country from this Province,

thank you. Thank you very much for what you have done and what you have

contributed to make our way of life possible.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: I thank hon. members for their presentation. I wish to

assure our guests that this is one of the very proudest moments that I have seen

in this Legislature in my twelve years here. You are always welcome. Today is a

special day. Again, our thanks for your accepting my invitation and the minister's

invitation to attend in our galleries today.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: We have members' statements as follows: the hon. the

Member for the District of Port au Port; the hon. the Member for the District of

Carbonear-Harbour Grace; the hon. the member for the District of Terra Nova; the

hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank; and the hon. the Member for the

District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

The hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago I told the House about

some students from Stephenville High who were attending a competition in the

United States. I rise today to extend congratulations to these fourteen students

who have just returned from the National Young Entrepreneur Competition and

Conference which was held in Milwaukee, Wisconsin from April 13 to April 15.

The students captured seven major awards during this competition, including

the biggest one, the top one. In the business competition, students from across

the United States and Canada were asked to submit their business plans to the

Institute for Entrepreneurship. Only the best fifty plans were accepted out of

hundreds qualified to compete in this event. Stephenville High was the only

Canadian entry.

Elizabeth Borden and Haley Rae Hall brought home the Best Business Plan award

for their business, "Picture This". Alicia Bailey and Julia Bennett

came away with two major awards, the Most Creative Business Award, as well as

the Honorable Mention award for their internet-based service business,

"Clutter Clear Out".

The second competition held at the national event was the Elevator Speech

Competition. Over one hundred business plans were submitted to compete in this

event, with thirty entrants selected to compete. The quality of our students'

business plans impressed the organizers, and the following were awarded medals

and $200 cash to invest in their business. They were: Holly Delaney, for her -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. J. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They were: Holly Delaney for her business "Basket Case"; Sololiya

Tesfaye, for "Solo's Hair Braiding Salon"; Kayla Mills for "Uh

Oh, We Spilled the Beans"; and Mark Gallant for "Refund Nature".

The commitment and effort on the part of these students was overwhelming, Mr.

Speaker. It is through competitions such as this that our young people can show

their talent and convey to the world their strong work ethic and drive for

excellence.

I would ask members to acknowledge all members of the Stephenville High

Enterprise Team and their teacher, Mr. Shawn Bradbury.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for District of Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize a talented group of athletes from my district who

have recently won a provincial championship.

Mr. Speaker, St. Francis High School, Harbour Grace, was converged on by a

number of basketball teams on April 22-24 to take

part in a Newfoundland and

Labrador Basketball Association's Provincial Midget Basketball Championships.

Mr. Speaker, the St. Francis Crusaders, under the coaching of Terry Slade and

Robyn Noel, was one of eight teams in this tournament and entered in with the #6

ranking. The competition viewed this team as a long shot at best.

The coach trained the girls well and had them primed for the tournament. Much

to the surprise of their opponents, the Crusaders propelled into the

championship round with a 3 and 0 record against the first place team from St.

Paul's.

In this championship game, St. Francis and St. Paul's were tied at 28 at

half time. However, St. Francis pulled away with five unanswered baskets in only

forty-five seconds towards the end of the game. That was all the Crusaders

needed as they cruised in to the final eight minutes to a 64-49 finish. The

provincial championship was coming home to St. Francis.

On top of this impressive team performance, Victoria Ralph of St. Francis was

selected as the tournament's Most Valuable Player, a tremendous distinction

for this talented athlete.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating the St.

Francis Crusaders on their provincial basketball victory and in congratulating

Victoria Ralph on being selected as the tournament's MVP.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to offer congratulations to three individuals from

my district. All three were recipients of the Premier's Athletic Awards.

In badminton, Samantha Ralph of Eastport was awarded a grant of $1,500. Renee

White of Gambo was awarded a $500 grant for her talents in cross country skiing.

Finally, Sasha Wilkins, also of Gambo, was awarded a $500 for her abilities in

volleyball. These grants, Mr. Speaker, will be used to offset the costs of

training at the Atlantic, National, and International Levels.

Our government recognizes that while talent is a necessity, so too is the

support needed by these athletes. We are committed to supporting our Province's

athletes so they are able to compete on all levels. Mr. Speaker, this year a

total of ninety-five individuals were recognized for their athletic abilities in

a plethora of sports, everything from alpine skiing to wrestling.

As the Premier stated in his news release, Newfoundland and Labrador

continues to produce an incredible caliber of athletes who are frequently

competing at national and international competitions. We hope to see this pool

of talented athletes continue to grow and prosper in this Province for years to

come.

Mr. Speaker, I kindly ask that all hon. members of this House join with me

today in congratulating these individuals on their great achievements.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, today I congratulate Chris Piercey of Fortune on

being awarded the Gar Pynn Scholarship' by the Faculty of Business

Administration at Memorial University.

The $2,000 scholarship is awarded to a student in the Masters of Business

Administration Program who maintains high academic standing and makes a

significant contribution to student life.

Chris, age twenty-nine, is in his second year of MBA studies and is President

of the MBA Student Association. He will continue his MBA this semester at the

Copenhagen International School of Business in Denmark.

Chris is the son of Lloyd and Viola Piercey.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating

Chris and extending him best wishes.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la

Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the tremendous achievement of

Gurpreet Sohi, a Level II student at John Watkins Academy in Hermitage. Earlier

this year, Gurpreet won the local and regional speak-off and gained the

opportunity to compete at the provincials. On April 23, Gurpreet won the Lions

provincial speak-out and will now represent Newfoundland and Labrador in Halifax

on May 14. Gurpreet will compete against participants from other Atlantic

provinces and the United States.

Her topic is on genetic testing and she entitled her speech, "The next

big thing". Her focus was on the negative aspects of the technology if such

information is made too accessible.

Mr. Speaker, Gurpreet attributes much of her success to the co-operation and

input from the students, and most importantly, the staff and teachers of John

Loveless.

Gurpreet has stated one of the reasons she enjoys public speaking is that you

really get a chance to express your own opinion about anything that is important

to you. She feels more needs to be done to promote public speaking amongst

students. She hopes that parents, schools and community organizations will

provide the avenues for interested students to take part and participate in

public speaking initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, I join the students, teachers and staff of John Watkins Academy,

the residents of Hermitage and the Coast of Bays region in congratulating

Gurpreet on her success thus far and best wishes for her upcoming competition in

Halifax. I am sure she will represent our Province extremely well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, government has failed to deal with the serious problems that are

related to the abuse of OxyContin in the Province. Pharmacists themselves feel

compelled because of their own professional responsibility to take matters into

their own hands and refuse to fill some prescriptions.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister today: When is government going to stop

putting pharmacists in this dangerous position and when are they going to act on

the last year's OxyContin report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, and the Acting Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recommendation 43 in the OxyContin Task Force Report identifies and makes

certain recommendations. This government is preparing to have legislation passed

in this session. We have been here since March and now it is May and we are

still dealing with the Budget. When the Budget gets done we will be able to move

and get some legislation done, with the Opposition's co-operation, and get

that done in this spring session of the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Various groups in the Province formed a task force on OxyContin. These people

worked in good faith, Mr. Speaker, putting forward recommendations that they

hoped was going to be acted upon. The medical association was one of the groups

that was part of this task force and participated, and now they are asking

government to act. Why haven't you responded to them, Minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, and the Acting Minister of

Health and Community Service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I indicated the answer to that question. I said we have been debating the

Budget since March on Interim Supply and we are still dealing with Budget

legislation. We had hoped to get into it this week. The House Leader informs me

it could be later today or Monday. I guess the Budget Debate will be finished.

We will be introducing legislation, and it is our hope that before the

Legislature recesses for the summer we will pass that recommendation. We are

working closely with the medical board on this and they are co-operating with us

very much so, I say, Mr. Speaker, and we are hoping to get that through and get

it done in this session, if we do no get any resistence from the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we have seen a rash of drug abuse break-ins in St.

John's and now there has been reports of related criminal activity in Grand

Falls and, as we all know, that is where the OxyContin patients are being sent

now to receive their methadone treatment. All this is happening while the

resources of the RNC are being strained to the limit sheltering Cabinet

ministers on the other side from the public, I say to the minister. Will he

admit that there are serious law enforcement problems developing in this

Province because of government's inaction to deal with the drug abuse

problems?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, and the Acting Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Law enforcement, I will certainly leave it to my colleague to deal with the

law enforcement part, but in this year's Budget we put $1 million to move on a

recommendation for methadone treatment. We are moving on it. We put the

resources in this Budget to do it and we want to see it accomplished. We, as

much as anybody in this Province, do not want to see a problem to any drug

addiction here. We are working hard, and we put the resources in to back it up

and get this done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we all know that when the Department of Health is

in disarray or in a crisis it is the people of the Province who end up

suffering. We have serious problems in waiting time in emergency and outpatient

services in our hospitals, specifically in Gander. I ask the Minister, is he

aware of these serious waiting time issues and is he taking any special action

to have it dealt with?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, and the Acting Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In this year's Budget we have put an unprecedented amount of money to

increase the health care budget. To answer her question to deal with waiting

times, $23.2 million this year to improve waiting times in our Province; more

than they ever put in, combined, in the year she sat in Cabinet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thanks to the federal investment, Mr. Speaker, in the Province

this year in the Budget.

My next question is for the Minister for the Status of Women. Mr. Speaker, I

ask the minister responsible if she will be attending the health rally in Port

aux Basques this evening, confirming to the people from her district who use the

Port aux Basques hospital the same commitment she blurted out in the House of

Assembly here a week ago?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, and Acting Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A question has been asked and I ask hon. members to permit the answer to be

given.

The hon. the Minister of Finance, and the Acting Minister of Health and

Community Services.

MS THISTLE: Nice skirt, Loyola, nice skirt!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, I must say, is in a humourous mood here

today. That is a change, that is pleasant. That is very pleasant to see.

As the Acting Minister of Health, I was asked -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: - recently to attend there and being on reasonably short

notice, I had numerous other commitments, I could not possibly attend, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: The last time I checked, I am the Acting Minister of

Health, I say to the member across the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand you are having a bit of a rough time. The Minister Responsible

for the Status of Women was just asked if she was going to a meeting in Port aux

Basques where her own constituents are and the Acting Minister of Health said I

cannot go.

Yesterday in this House, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries stated, and

these are his words again: There are too many plants. There is overcapacity in

the crab industry, and there needs to be rationalization.

I ask him again today, because a number of things have changed since

yesterday: Will he confirm again today in this House that this is still the

official government policy and his own position, or has it changed since

yesterday?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think that is the opinion of the vast majority of people in

Newfoundland and Labrador. It was certainly the opinion of the former Minister

of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, when he sat

in that seat over right there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand they are having difficulty with pretty straightforward

questions: Is it still the policy? I will answer it for him. Yes, it is still

his policy, because he said it was yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, in the court decision regarding the issuance of a crab licence

to St. Anthony, this is what the court decision states: The minister has the

discretion to issue or refuse a licence in line with government policy.

If the government policy is that there are too many plants, there is already

overcapacity, and that court decision states you should follow government policy

when making a decision on a new licence, why did the minister ignore his own

policy and ignore the court order in giving a licence in his own district?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the court order said that the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture must reconsider the patently unreasonable decision of the former

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

That, Mr. Speaker, is what the court order said.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: The court order said the minister must reconsider a patently

unreasonable decision.

In reconsidering the patently unreasonable decision, Mr. Speaker, you have to

go back to 2002 when the patently unreasonable decision was made. At that time,

the patently unreasonable decision-maker issued a shrimp licence in Twillingate

and reactivated a crab licence in Twillingate; so, Mr. Speaker, the same should

apply. You cannot make chalk out of one and cheese out of the other.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

He might be satisfied with that answer, and some of the people over there who

take instructions from others, but it is not going to satisfy anybody on this

side, I can tell you.

Mr. Speaker, Ramea and Gaultois also had crab licences, until a little while

ago, but did not have a quota to attract an operator. They had a licence, but no

quota and no operator.

I ask the minister: Will he confirm that merely having a licence to process

crab is no guarantee that a crab operation will actually go ahead in a

community, as was the case in Ramea and Gaultois?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there were four licences that were in existence, that are no

longer in existence. There was one in Ramea., there was one in Burgeo, there was

one in Gaultois, and there was one in Twillingate; two of which were inactive,

completely inactive, associated with facilities that were completely inactive,

and two were associated with facilities that were active on other species. The

Dunne report recommended that all inactive species be cancelled.

Mr. Speaker, when we moved to reissue licences last year, we did not

reactivate the crab licences in those facilities. We did not reissue the crab

licence to those facilities. Similarly, there were 900 other individual species

authorizations that we cancelled this past season.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, let me give the short answer. He just said: Yes, I was right; just

because you have a licence does not mean you actually process crab.

Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting that Mr. John Risley owns somewhere

around 75 per cent of the operation in St. Anthony. This is the same individual

who has been lobbying for years for transferrable production quotas as a member

of the FPI Board of Directors - one of the few remaining supporters of the new

quota system.

Will the minister admit today that in order to get Mr. Risley to open the St.

Anthony plant, the minister had to provide not only the licence for St. Anthony

but also guarantee him that he would actually give him some crab?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I wonder, is that the same John Risley who made a very

significant contribution to the Leader of the Opposition's campaign in the

last election? Is that the same John Risley that he is talking about?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Because, if that is the John Risley then I have not had a

conversation with that John Risley in many years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me ask the question again, because he did not answer that question. The

question is this. I will repeat the question again. Will the minister -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members for their co-operation.

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen this old tactic before, where the government does

not want to answer a question about today; they want to live in the past. Let me

ask the question again, and see if I can get him to answer the question about

today, about the future, not about the past.

Will the minister admit today that in order to get Mr. Risley, no matter what

he has done in the past, to open the St. Anthony plant, that the minister had to

give him not only the licence but also guarantee him that he would have access

to crab? Answer the question.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I suspect St. Anthony, being in an area where 6.5 million pounds

of crab gets landed and with a plant that has quite an adequate facility, a very

capable facility, there is not much trouble for the people in St. Anthony to

access crab for a plant in St. Anthony, if they had a licence that was promised

to them in 1998 and patently, unreasonably denied by that Member for Twillingate

& Fogo in 2002.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, under the minister's proposed new quota system, the plants are

supposed to get 90 per cent of the average of the last three years.

Can the minister tell this House, because he has refused to answer this

question when asked before: What will the quota be for St. Anthony this year,

and can he explain how they got any crab when the average for the last three

years is zero because there has been no operation in St. Anthony?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if I am not mistaken, I do not think the Leader of the

Opposition was there but certainly members of his party were there, some of his

staff were there, when we had a press conference on March 2 and rolled out the

RMS system, when I announced that we were issuing the crab licence in St.

Anthony. At that time, I said that the Province is going to be divided up into

four regions and based on regional balance, no region in this Province would

have less than 75 per cent of the quota available in that area, by home port,

processed in that area. When you take 75 per cent of the quota in an area, every

plant in that region would have to have more than 90 per cent, because under the

old system, under the old government that had a huge amount of capacity added to

the East Coast at the expense of the West Coast and at the expense of the

Northern Peninsula, less than 20 per cent of the crab on the Northern Peninsula

got processed there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister just confirmed exactly what I was about to say. Crab will be

processed in St. Anthony because it will be taken from other plants in the

Province that had it in past years. This will, no doubt, Mr. Speaker, have a

negative impact on other operations and the plant workers at those other plants.

The plant workers must surely now realize that this new licence in St. Anthony

absolutely has to mean less work for them. After all, they are the same people

who protested against the transfer of this licence three years ago.

I ask the minister: How can he possibly hope to convince plant workers that

they will not be negativity impacted by this new licence in St. Anthony in all

the other plants?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have never once said - I have never once said that plant

workers would not be negatively affected by the addition of the crab licence in

St. Anthony.

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. TAYLOR: I never ever said that, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair would like to remind the visitors in the gallery they are not to

participate or to show approval or disapproval, and to respect the rules of the

House. We wish to continue with our Question Period.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, if

he wishes to make some concluding comments.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, what we had said - what I said all the way through, from March 2

to now, May 5 -

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker now directs that the gallery be cleared and that this House is

now in recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker's clock indicates that when the House recessed we had used

seventeen minutes and thirty-two seconds of the Oral Question time, so we will

continue from there. We have about twelve-and-a-half minutes remaining.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was just asking the Minister of Fisheries the question with respect to the

fact that the additional licence in St. Anthony will mean that crab quota will

have to be taken from other existing operations in the Province and that plant

workers must realize that this new licence will mean less work for them.

I ask him again, because he was about to give the answer. I ask the minister:

How does he possibly hope to convince plant workers that they will not be

negatively impacted as a result of this new licence being issued in St. Anthony?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I was starting to say, I have never said - never, in rolling

out this raw material sharing system, have I said that the St. Anthony licence

would not have a negative impact on plant workers. What I have said,

consistently, is that by ensuring that 75 per cent of the crab on the Northern

Peninsula, for example, gets processed on the Northern Peninsula, that would

have an impact overall in the Province of about 3 per cent. They are the facts,

Mr. Speaker.

There is about 6.5 million pounds of crab on the Northern Peninsula.

Historically, there is about 1.25 million getting produced there, and what we

are proposing is that there be about 4.2 million produced there. I would say,

after fifty-one years of the people on the Northern Peninsula and The Straits

& White Bay North being represented by a Liberal government, then at least,

with the loyalty that they showed, they could at least give them the very basic

opportunity to have what is rightfully theirs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to see him at least speaking a bit today. The more he speaks the

bigger and deeper he digs the hole. He is admitting that as long as everything

is fine for St. Anthony it does not really matter what happens to anybody else.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question. Will the minister now finally admit

that his decision to give a new crab licence to St. Anthony, which he is so

proud of, will only redistribute poverty, something else that he has said he is

totally, absolutely against?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I will say about the St. Anthony licence is that we listened to a court

order to reconsider a patently unreasonable decision by the former Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, who was the

minister form 2001 to 2003, who made the decision to issue a shrimp licence in

Twillingate, to reactivate a crab licence in Twillingate, and at the same time

said no to the licence in St. Anthony that was promised in 1998.

Mr. Speaker, when three Supreme Court Justices looked at that, they realized

that the Member for Twillingate & Fogo made a patently unreasonable decision

and ordered me to reconsider it. As I said before, how do you fix a patently

unreasonable decision without reversing it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

At least we can give him credit for having his few lines that he has well

rehearsed.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Fisheries; as a result of his unilateral

attempts to force this production quota system down the throats of crab

harvesters against their wishes, some are planning to fish and land their crab

in Nova Scotia. Is he concerned, I ask the minister, that his ill-conceived plan

is forcing fish harvesters to land their crab in another province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have no control over what harvesters do with their product.

When they take it out of the water, if they want to go to Nova Scotia then they

can go to Nova Scotia, just the same as they have done in the past, just the

same as the people on the West Coast went to Quebec in the past, just as the

same as the people in Labrador, on times, have sold to Quebec. We have no

control over that, but what we do have control over is the processing sector and

what we do have control over is the ability, through a conditional licence, to

determine how much any one processing operation can process. That is our

jurisdiction under the Constitution and that is the jurisdiction that we are

going to manage, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess he does not understand the problem. The problem is that he is trying

to take control and they do not want you to.

Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women said

she was concerned about food services being moved from Stephenville because many

of the food service workers were women. The vast majority of crab plant workers

are women too, she might know, who will lose their opportunities for employment

because government's proposed system is forcing harvesters to land their crab

in Nova Scotia.

I ask the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, what concern does she

have for these women in the plants who are going to see the people in Nova

Scotia get more work while they lose their jobs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I had the opportunity to meet

with a group of plant workers, and we are very concerned about the plant workers

in this Province. They had certain requests that they put forward to me, as the

Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment and the Minister Responsible

for the Status of Women. The issues they put forward to us are very serious

issues and I made some commitments to them that I would follow through on some

plans of actions based on the meeting that we had, and, Mr. Speaker, I plan to

do just that.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, her plan is they are going to lose their jobs and she is going to put

them to work and stamp them up.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister supposedly responsible for rural development,

the minister for rural destruction in Newfoundland and Labrador, is she

concerned about the negative impact -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I would ask the Leader of the Opposition if he could refer to ministers by

their titles and refrain from commentary that might be derogatory to the office.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: The minister knows who I am talking about, Mr. Speaker. Is

she concerned about the negative impact that this dispute is having on the

economy of the rural communities that she is supposedly so concerned about now

that their jobs are going to be going from our communities and going to show up

in communities in rural parts of Nova Scotia instead?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government has a tremendous concern about what is happening in rural

parts of this Province, particularly what is happening in our fishing

communities. It is that concern, Mr. Speaker, that has driven this whole raw

material sharing plan, is our concern for communities in rural parts of this

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To assure we have the full time, the Chair will now go to the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi. If there is time, we can come back to the Leader of the

Opposition.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

One of the main issues in this crab dispute is about consultation. We learned

today that not only were the fish harvesters and the FFAW not consulted; his own

caucus was not consulted on the issue of imposing this plan.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking members on both sides of the House - colleagues, I ask all

members for their co-operation.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Sunday past, Mr. Speaker, the minister was requested to meet with

representatives of the FFAW and representatives of a large number of processors

who were working to try and resolve the impasse, and that some proposed

solutions were passed on to his officials.

I want to know, Mr. Speaker, why did the minister refuse, or fail, to meet

with these people to try and resolve this impasse, or were they looking forward

to a demonstration on Monday that happened because this minister refused to

meet, consult and talk with the fishermen and plant operators?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there was no request on Sunday for me to meet with the FFAW or

any processors in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, on Sunday there was a call from Mr. McCurdy to

Joe O'Neill -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: What did you say? Say it again.

MR. GRIMES: You just called Mr. McCurdy a liar.

MR. TAYLOR: I did not, sir. I said there was no request.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I would ask the minister to address his commentary to the Chair and not to

any other member of the House.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on Sunday there was a call -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: If the Member for Twillingate & Fogo could keep his

comments to himself for a few minutes he might get an answer, if he is

interested in an answer. If he is just interested in asking questions, Mr.

Speaker, they can keep asking questions and I will sit down in the House and

stay here, if that is what he is interested in, but if he is interested in the

answer, Mr. Speaker, Mr. McCurdy contacted Joe O'Neill from the Labour

Relations Agency on Sunday. My understanding was that there was a meeting

convened between the FFAW and some processors in this Province. They were

informing me that there was a discussion underway to try and find a resolution

to this impasse. I said: Thank you very much - when the message was passed on to

me - let me know how it goes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

We have time for one last question.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Like members opposite have found out, the truth will come out eventually, Mr.

Speaker.

Today we also learn that, in addition to crab harvesters being forced to sell

product to Nova Scotia, this government is now starting to deny social

assistance benefits to fishery workers who have run out of EI.

I want to know: Is it this government's plan, and this minister's plan,

to not only allow chaos in the crab industry to prevail but also to try and

starve the fish harvesters into submission to accept their plans? Is that part

of your strategy, Mr. Speaker?

MR. TAYLOR: (Inaudible).

MR. GRIMES: Did you hear that, Mr. Speaker?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, we have very few seconds left.

There is time for a very brief answer by the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, if he takes this issue as

seriously as he professes, he would not make foolish accusations like that, Mr.

Speaker. He would not make foolish accusations like that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Two or three weeks ago in this House, when the Member for the

Bay of Islands put out a press release and there was a question asked, the

Premier indicated that we were prepared to step up and put funding in place to

assist plant workers who might be adversely affected by this impasse. That, Mr.

Speaker, was what was said, and that, Mr. Speaker, is what will be done.

Mr. Speaker, as for the allegation about Sunday, he can talk to Mr. Dave

Decker. It was a clear conversation yesterday morning, and an explanation as to

what happened on Sunday.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This House is in recess, and the galleries will be closed for the balance of

the sitting day.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Before the House recessed, I was asking, under our Standing Orders here - not

Standing Orders - under our agenda, we were doing Presenting Reports by Standing

and Select Committees, so I would ask for any.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. GRIMES: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I just raise this point of order from Question

Period, as we have concluded Question Period and are going to the next item.

Normally, I think that is the process, that if there are points of order from

Question Period you raise them after Question Period.

I think you were probably going to draw to attention yourself that the

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, in answering one of the last questions

asked by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, yelled out quite loud and clear

from his seat - he had risen to start answering the question, and, instead of

the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, he called him by name and said: Jack,

that is beneath you.

All of us heard that, Mr. Speaker, and I would just like to say that the next

time you have an opportunity maybe you might ask the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture to withdraw that comment and remind all of us of the rules, that we

address each other by our position and title.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, we are not denying that took place, but I do

believe in fact that it took place as the hon. minister was rising to his feet

and had not, in fact, been recognized by Your Honour, so it was more of an

altercation back and forth across the floor that happens quite common in this

Chamber, but it was not after formal recognition. I am sure Your Honour will

check it out, and if there is anything that is against the rules I am sure the

hon. minister would make sure that he complies with the rules.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is aware that there were some words exchanged. The Chair did not

hear the words, but there was a member over here who drew the attention. The

Chair did not hear the actual exchange because I was in the process of

recognizing the hon. the minister; however, I will check the transcripts from

Hansard and come back to the House at a later time with a ruling.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They say on the third try you are always lucky, so I will try this time.

Pursuant to

Section 26.(5)(

a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am

tabling three Orders-in-Council relating to funding pre-commitments for the

2006-2007 to the 2008-2009 fiscal years.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the constituents

in my District of Trinity-Bay de Verde. Recently I attended a meeting with the

Lower Trinity South Regional Development Association, at which time I was

presented with the petition. I will read the petition as follows:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland in Parliament

assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of the District of

Trinity-Bay de Verde.

WHEREAS this winter the highway on Route 80, Trinity South Shore has been in

deplorable and dangerous conditions, due to the decrease in manpower and

machinery at transportation depots; and

WHEREAS travel to high schools at both Old Perlican and Carbonear by students

was a grave concern; and

WHEREAS ambulances transporting emergency cases and individuals seeking

medical treatment rely on the conditions of the highway; and

WHEREAS the roads in the area along Route 80 from New Chelsea to Old Perlican

are in need of upgrading and paving;

WHEREFORE we ask the minister of works, services and transportation to make

our highways safe by increasing manpower and machinery, especially during the

winter months. To reduce further the operations of depots can become a

catastrophe. As well as allocate monies to ensure the area from New Chelsea to

Old Perlican is upgraded and paved during the 2005-2006 fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, I will say the first

WHEREAS - there has not been a decrease in

manpower and machinery this year. In fact, those levels have been maintained.

While there are some fluctuations because of sick time, sick leave or annual

leave, that may be the case, but there was not, in fact, a decline in the number

of manpower or machinery.

I have been in constant contact with the Minister of Transportation and Works

and his department. I get exceptional co-operation from that department. I will

say that we have been in discussions on some roadwork coming up, and some

announcements will be made in the near future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition from the people in The Straits &

White Bay North area with regard to health care services on the Northern

Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, the people in this area are very frustrated over what has been

happening. They have had to swallow the fact that their board has been

amalgamated with another board, and that draws with itself a whole set of issues

and problems that have to be worked out. In addition to that, the people in this

area are faced with a health care system that is $14 million in debt, a debt

that has to be paid down. They have been instructed by the government opposite

that they must pay down this debt. The people in that area fear that the only

way that this debt can be paid down is with the closure of facilities and

cutting services in the region.

On top of all of that, the people on the Northern Peninsula have also been

faced with, in recent days, the HayGroup report itself - a report which

recommends the total dismantling and disintegrating of health care services as

we know it today in our Province; a report that we see the downsizing of

facilities in Roddickton, Flower's Cove and in the Labrador Straits, but more

so than that would see the complete removal of services like obstetrics,

gynecology, psychiatry and pediatrics from this particular hospital.

Mr. Speaker, the people in that area are very, very frustrated. They want the

government to give them a commitment that these services will not be cut and

that the integrity of their health care system will be maintained, but that has

not happened to date. The government has not stood and given those commitments

to the people in that area.

Right now, as we speak today, the people who work in the St. Anthony

hospital, the people who are expected to use that particular facility for health

care purposes are left without answers. They can only assume - in the absence of

government making any other statement and any other commitment - that the

recommendations of the Hay Group Report will be implemented in their case. If

that is not the case, I challenge the members opposite - any member opposite who

has any authority over there - to stand up and tell them otherwise. So far, Mr.

Speaker, that has definitely not happened.

We have seen it happen in Stephenville, where the member for Stephenville and

St. George's stood on her feet one day, under pressure from her constituents

with a big rally going on that evening in her district, and said: No, we will

not cut these services at the Stephenville hospital. We don't see her

scurrying out of the House of Assembly tonight to attend the rally in Port aux

Basques, do we, Mr. Speaker? Nor do we see her responding to the needs of the

people on the Northern Peninsula.

That is their petition. I would like to have a response to it.

MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, Order 2, Committee of Supply. Resolution on

Bill 4 Respecting the Granting of Supply to Her Majesty.

Mr. Speaker, I have a message from His Honour the Lieutenant Governor.

MR. SPEAKER: Please rise.

The message reads as follows:

As Lieutenant Governor of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, I

transmit Estimates of sums required for the Public Service of the Province for

the year ending March 31, 2006. By way of further supply and in accordance with

the provisions of Sections 54 and 90 of the Constitution Act, 1867, I recommend

these Estimates to the House of Assembly.

Sgd.: _____________________________________________________________

Edward Roberts, Q.C., Lieutenant Governor of Newfoundland

and Labrador

The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, Order 2, Committee of Supply. Resolution and

Bill No. 4 Respecting the Granting of Main Supply to Her Majesty.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: I move that we move into Committee of Supply.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for

the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider the

Committee of Supply.

Is it the pleasure of the House that I do now leave the Chair for the House

to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The House is now into the Committee of Supply and the continuation of the

debate on the Estimates.

The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: On a point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I understand the normal process is to go

to a speaker from either side of the House. I followed the proceedings on

television the other night because I wasn't here for some reason, but the last

speaker recognized in the debate before adjournment was the Minister of Finance.

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. GRIMES: Absolutely. The Minister of Finance was recognized by the

Chair.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. GRIMES: It does count. We take turns in Committee, I say, Mr.

Chairman. The normal procedure is to alternate side to side. The last speaker

recognized by the Chair in the last evening we were here was the Minister of

Finance. We have a member on our side standing. It is our turn, I would suggest.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Look, I mean, we are not going to kick up an unholy row about this matter or

anything but the fact of the matter, Mr. Chairman, and the Leader of the

Opposition is certainly here long enough to know those rules, you cannot adjourn

debate in Committee.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: It goes back and forth, there is no question about that, but

you cannot adjourn debate in Committee and when the Committee meets again - it

is the prerogative of the Chair, when the Committee meets again, to recognize

the first person that the Chair sees standing on their feet. I submit, Mr.

Chairman, that is the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Chair. Not to belabour the point, but I think the

Acting Government House Leader made the point perfectly clear. The Minister of

Finance was not recognized to adjourn the debate because you cannot do it. He

was recognized by the Chair, he was the speaker. He is not here to speak today,

in any event. The last turn in a rotation was a government turn. He only had a

minute left before we were adjourned for the evening. There were two people on

their feet, as you know from the Chair, and if we are going to follow the rules,

it is the turn - because we are in the same committee at its next opportunity to

sit - of the Opposition side to speak, unless now the government wants to get on

with its heavy ways again, the hobnailed boot, and insist that they have five or

six or ten turns in a row.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: This is the last time I will make a comment on this. We

certainly have no problem with the Chair determining what the situation is here.

The fact of the matter though is that with a new parliamentary day - there is no

adjournment in committee - the speaker is free. Obviously, there is no such

thing as a rotation. The rotation begins after the first speaker is recognized

today. That is when the rotation begins.

CHAIR: That is the Chair's understanding as well, in conferring with

the Table, that this being a normal debate on Committee of Supply, that the

first two members are recognized for fifteen minutes each and each subsequent

member for ten minutes each. The Chair is certainly wide open.

I call on the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am going to stand and talk a little bit about some of the initiatives that

I have undertaken as Minister of Environment and Conservation in my department

throughout the Province. I will start with some of the recycling initiatives.

In Corner Brook, Mr. Chair, we announced a curbside paper and fibre recycling

program in Corner Brook. That is about to start, in fact, on June 1. I was

delighted, after several weeks of consultation with the council in Corner Brook

and bringing the MMSB, the officials from Corner Brook, and the recycling

community in Corner Brook, the recyclers, the recycling companies, that we were

able to come to an agreement in Corner Brook, and start curbside recycling in

the City of Corner Brook.

Mr. Chair, in addition to the upfront capital funding that we have provided

to the City of Corner Brook for curbside recycling, the MMSB is also going to

undertake an education program in the City of Corner Brook to ensure that we

inform residents throughout the entire city of what is able to be put into the

bags for recycling of fibre, what is not able to be put into the bags for the

recycling of fibre. I am certainly hoping that the residents in the City of

Corner Brook will prove themselves, once again, to be leaders and environmental

stewards and come onside with that recycling initiative.

Mr. Chair, in addition, I was delighted to bring in a recycling program in

Lewisporte with the co-operation of the municipal council in Lewisporte and the

Calypso Foundation in Lewisporte. The Calypso Foundation provides employment

opportunities to people with challenges. So, it is a very, very worthwhile

project. I am very, very excited about it because not only are we getting a

recycling program in Lewisporte where we are banning the disposal of corrugated

cardboard at the landfill site from businesses, institution and industry, but we

are also opening the doors of Calypso to provide recycling to residents of the

Town of Lewisporte as well. Not only are we providing the ability for the

residents of Lewisporte to be able to recycle, Mr. Chair, but we are also

providing employment opportunities for the clients of Calypso. So, that is

another very, very worthwhile project that has been announced.

In addition to the upfront capital funding provided through the MMSB to

Calypso Foundation, the Town of Lewisporte are also providing some land and some

(inaudible) support to Calypso. We are going to be doing an educational program

in Lewisporte as well to ensure that industry, business and institutions in

Lewisporte are fully aware of how they can participate in this program, in

addition to informing residents within Lewisporte of how they can partake in

recycling of their fibre as well on a residential basis.

I was delighted to work with Mayor Steve Kent as well in the City of Mount

Pearl. We met with the Chamber of Commerce, or representatives of the Chamber of

Commerce, the business community. We have also included as well in that the

Speaker, who is the Member for Waterford Valley, and my colleague, the Member

for Mount Pearl. When we put that program together we had great co-operation

from all involved. The City of Corner Brook came through in flying colours in

their enthusiasm and their willingness to get involved in a curbside recycling

program. That program is slated to start, I believe, the third of November. We

are very, very excited about that particular program, Mr. Chair, and we are

going to see residents now have the ability in Mount Pearl. It is a mandatory

program for residents, I might add.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: We are going to see the residents in Mount Pearl now have

the ability, on regular waste collection day, to put their recycling out at the

curb. That is a very, very positive program. It is another step forward in this

Province to achieving the 50 per cent waste diversion goal provincially.

In addition to that, Mr. Chair, in the Cities of St. John's and Mount

Pearl, and in the municipalities of Paradise and CBS, we had co-operation from

all of the provincial members within those areas: Mount Pearl, St. John's,

Paradise and CBS.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: The municipalities involved - we had the Chamber of

Commerce, the Board of Trade; we brought in all of the stakeholders,

essentially, the recycling companies, in those four municipalities, and we have

announced a paper recycling program for businesses of twenty-five or more

employees as of September 1 this year. As of March 1 next year, it will be all

businesses, all offices and all institutions, including schools, hospitals and

the like. We are asking that all of these businesses and institutions divert

their paper -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Instead of sending it to their regular waste diversion

and sending it to Robin Hood Bay, we are asking that they take their paper,

separate it from the regular waste stream. That, again, is another initiative

that was initiated by this Administration that will see waste diverted from the

landfills, will increase the life span of the landfills in this Province until

we are able to bring in a regional landfill site. In addition to that, it brings

us another step closer to achieving our 50 per cent waste diversion goal.

We are very excited to have been involved, and not only involved but we have

initiated these particular programs. They were directly initiated by this

Administration. I am delighted to say that we, at least on this side of the

Legislature, took the initiative to do those things. They should have been done

years ago. They are initiatives that our Party, while we were in Opposition, had

called for time and time again. They are initiatives that should have been put

in place years ago. If the other Administration were serious about bringing in

waste diversion, meeting our 50 per cent waste diversion goal -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: If the other Administration were serious about reducing

the number of landfills in this Province, increasing the amount of waste

diversion, and increasing the amount of recycling, they would have done it years

ago. All of these initiatives will increase employment in the Province, will

increase opportunities for businesses, and, most importantly, there are huge

advantages to the environment by decreasing the amount of waste going to

landfill sites.

In addition to that, Mr. Chairman, in this year's Budget we have put in

place again another $1 million for the cleanup of the former military site at

St. Anthony. This is the second year in a row that we have put $1 million into

the Budget for the cleanup of the former military site in St. Anthony, and it is

a step towards cleaning up all of the former military sites and the contaminated

sites throughout the Province. We are looking at these, Mr. Chair -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: We are looking at these, Mr. Chair, on a priority basis,

and year after year we are committed to taking a contaminated site each year,

putting money towards those contaminated sites until we have all of those

contaminated sites cleaned up.

Mr. Chair, in addition to that, in this year's Budget I was delighted to

bring $250,000 of new money forward to go towards the provincial parks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Chair, we brought $250,000 towards park improvements

in the Budget this year. That is brand new money. That is money that this year

is going to be focused towards La Manche Provincial Park, to put in a dumping

station and a comfort station in that particular park, which will leave only two

parks in the Province without comfort stations, and will leave seven parks

without dumping stations.

So, year after year we have committed to bring in new money in the Budget on

an annual basis to address the infrastructure needs at our provincial parks

throughout the Province, and that is something that we are committed to. It is

something that I am very passionate about, bringing our provincial parks up to

national standards. It is something that we are going to follow through on that

particular commitment.

Mr. Chair, if the former Administration had lived up to their commitment in

1997 of putting $1 million a year into our provincial parks, our provincial

parks, right now, would be the best in the entire country, probably the best in

all of North America. Unfortunately, that promise was broken by the former

Administration. The infrastructure is crumbling in much of our provincial parks.

We are down to thirteen camping parks and, unfortunately, the former

Administration allowed that to happen to our provincial parks.

We are committed to bringing our provincial parks up to a national standard,

to bringing our provincial parks to something that not only residents within the

Province but, as well, visitors to this Province can be proud of, parks that

everybody who uses them can say that we now have parks that meet national

standards.

Mr. Chair, this year it is La Manche Park. Next year we will pick another

park that needs a dumping station or a comfort station. We will look at that

park next year and improve those parks.

In addition to that, we have put in additional campsites at Butterpot Park

this year. We put additional campsites in Butterpot last year. We are slated to

put additional parks in Butterpot again next year.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. minister that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. T. OSBORNE: By leave, Mr. Chair, just to clue up?

CHAIR: Does the hon. minister have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

CHAIR: The hon. minister, by leave.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I will clue up on the issue of the parks, Mr. Chair.

We are putting additional sites at Butterpot Park this year, and next year we

will put additional sites at Butterpot Park, because we want to bring the number

of sites at Butterpot Park up to a level where the supply at least meets the

demand.

On that, Mr. Chair, I am very delighted to speak to some of the initiatives

that we are doing in the Department of Environment and Conservation, some of the

areas that have been overlooked by the previous Administration, but we are

addressing those initiatives.

Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

I will just take a few minutes to rise to speak on the Budget.

If there is no other reason, if you want to look at today why I am glad to be

a Liberal, when you see what happened to a fellow member here today, you want to

be a Liberal.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: As the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's said, he is the

first man in Canadian history to be fired for telling the truth. What a shameful

day for the PC Party. What a shameful day. Then, again, I always look at it: Why

are we so surprised? Why are the people of Newfoundland and Labrador so

surprised?

This week, when I said to another member, the Minister of Education: Be a

man, stand up - the great saviour -

MS DUNDERDALE: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Chairman, we have been subjected to sexist remarks

from the other side of the House constantly this session. Mr. Chairman, I ask

you to ask the member to withdraw.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

I ask members if they would be sensitive to some language that they use in

the House, knowing that it might offend certain individuals who sit on probably

either side of the House. I ask members to be cognizant -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

I ask members to be cognizant of some terms that they use while they are

engaging in debate.

The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairperson, if I am saying to a man to be a man, if I am

saying to a woman be a woman, how is that sexist? That is just saying, be a man

for God's sake!

Anyway, let's get to the issue, Mr. Chairman. When I asked the Minister of

Education to go out and be a man and stand up for what he said, the Minister of

Human Resources and Status of Women got up and started lecturing me about how I

stand up for women's issues. How can you berate me? Why aren't you out in

Port aux Basques tonight? There are women's issues out in Port aux Basques.

Why aren't you out in Port aux Basques? Do you know why? Because you do not

have guts to show up out there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: There are people from your own district -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

I say to the member again, that his remark was clearly unparliamentary and I

ask him if he would withdraw that phrase that he used and continue with his

debate.

I call on the member to withdraw the phrase.

MR. JOYCE: I withdraw, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: I say, she does not have the intestinal fortitude to show up

out there tonight.

Here is the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development getting up to

me, Mr. Chairman, trying to talk about me being sexist. In Committee, this

person right here, the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, was

standing up in the Estimates protecting FPI. I asked that minister point blank,

and the record will show, I said: How much profit did FPI make last year? If you

are out promoting FPI, if you are out saying how they have to be profitable, how

they have to be sustainable, I ask that minister: How much did FPI make last

year? You are making decisions around this Cabinet table that are affecting

Harbour Breton, affecting Fortune. Do you know what the minister said to me, Mr.

Chairman? I don't know. The Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development: I don't know.

MS DUNDERDALE: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

MR. JOYCE: Oh my God, Mr. Chairman!

CHAIR: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade

and Rural Development.

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Chairman, I was in Estimates to answer questions on

the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. I know that the

members opposite have great difficulty with research. If you want to know how

much money FPI makes look it up yourself. I know.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, one thing is for sure, she did not deny saying

it. They made $18.7 million in the primary processing, Madam Minister, if you

did not know. If you want me to show you where to get it, I can get it for you.

The second -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, I am such a nice guy and I love to know the

issues, I asked the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, when I

am finished my speech, when I am finished here in the next three or four

minutes, I ask the minister - the crab issue is on the go in the Province and we

see the affects on the people, how emotional this is. I ask the Minister of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development - she is the minister who is sitting

around a Cabinet Table making a decision affecting all of rural Newfoundland and

Labrador which she is supposed to be the champion of. I ask her to stand up and

explain to me how the crab is being distributed in this Province. She cannot do

it, Mr. Chairman. She cannot do it! Here she is sitting around this Cabinet

Table with a big smile on her face. It is not funny. When you have people here

who have to move out of the Province, it is not funny, I say to the minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: That is what I say to the minister, it is not funny. She

cannot do it, but yet she is sitting around the Cabinet Table making all kinds

of decisions and she does not even know the process, doesn't even know -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: I say to the minister, I do not know, but if I have to be a

puppet I never want to know, let me tell you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: If I have to be a puppet, if I have to be a trained seal, I

would not want to be there let me tell you. If I could not be a man and say what

is on my mind -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

I ask if the members would recognize the person who has been identified by

the Chair and allow the Member for Bay of Islands to speak in silence.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: That is right, Mr. Chair. The truth usually hurts and it gets

so frustrating when the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is

making a decision on rural Newfoundland and she does not even know what she is

talking about. It is frustrating, I say, Mr. Chair.

Then we turn around and we go to the member for Placentia & St. Mary's

today, the one who got the flick and the statements that he made, and talking

about the only attitude in his caucus. They are only tolerable if they are

expressed privately and even then they are not respected. Opposing opinions to

the Premier are considered as treason. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? We

wonder why the Member for Gander is so quiet. We wonder why he is so quiet with

all of this going on. You look at the Member for Trinity North - and we all

wonder why would a member who stood up for his district get knifed. You wonder

why would he get knifed.

The Member for Trinity North, when he was over in the Liberal caucus and we

were having a meeting in Carbonear concerning Voisey's Bay, the Member for

Trinity North - was giving me questions to ask. In the caucus meeting I said:

Why don't you ask them? No, no, you ask. Five days later he is on Open Line

saying, I had this planned for five or six months, to cross the floor; and

asking me to ask questions. Then you wonder why this happened.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: It is obvious why it has happened, it is very obvious. If you

have a certain comfortable lifestyle, if you have a certain salary, and you want

to keep it - the Member for Gander just got upgraded. He is not going to give

his up, I guarantee you, while he is chewing on a stick of gum over there. He is

not going to give his up, I will guarantee you. Then you look around and say:

How did that happen? It is so easy to see it happening.

The hon. Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment and the Status of

Women is standing up beating her chest about all of the women's issues and won't

even go over to Port aux Basques, when the people from Codroy Valley get the

services that go to Port aux Basques, won't even go. The acting Minister of

Health says: I only got the notice a little while ago. She had it at least a

month ago. You wonder why it happened here to the Member for Placentia & St.

Mary's - the Member for Trinity North. You go through it, Mr. Chairman, and it

is very obvious.

When you ask about the Budget - the next time I say to anybody in Corner

Brook what the Premier has said in Corner Brook, ask the Member for Placentia

& St. Mary's, does he tell the truth, yes or no, what is in his own

statements, I say, Mr. Chairperson. Mr. Chairperson, what do you think of

members with this raw crab quota going on, what do you think of people going

back to their districts and saying, this year you are going to get 105 per cent

crab of what you got last year? What do you think of that, Mr. Chairman? That is

what is happening in this Province now. You can go out and say, here is the line

you have to take no matter what. If you don't, you are going to get the silver

bullet from Houston, Texas. You have to carry the line.

How many people over there were shining up that bullet last night when it

went in his back? How many people were shining it up? Hands up. Oh, there are a

few going up over there, I say, Mr. Chairman.

MS THISTLE: If the Premier was here, they would all put up their hands.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Bay of Islands that his speaking time has

expired.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, I will just clue up for a second.

CHAIR: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: He has a minute or so.

CHAIR: The hon. member, by leave.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, I will have plenty of time to continue on with

debate. From now on when you always ask - when the Premier goes out and says

something, I have a long-term care facility in Corner Brook, the Exhibition

Centre in Corner Brook, I can always look at the Member for Placentia & St.

Mary's and say: Do you think everything that the Premier says is true? Yes or

No?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair, to have a few comments on this Budget

here.

In fact, the people who look at our Province's rating, Dominion Bond Rating

Service just announced early this week that they have increased our credit

rating. We have been moved to a BBB high.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Or short term, from R2 to R1.

Mr. Chair, they give five particular reasons, five strengths. Declining debt

to GDP ratio, strengthening spending controls and fiscal prospects, still sound

economic outlook, large growing offshore energy sector, $2 billion Atlantic

Accord prepayment. The reason why our credit rating has improved, Mr. Chair, is

because this past year the Premier of our Province was instrumental in getting a

$2 billion Atlantic Accord agreement signed.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Secondly, he was instrumental in getting $88 billion in new

money in equalization. Instrumental in getting a six year deal for $284 million

on First Ministers of Health Care Accord. Instrumental!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I attended those meetings in Ottawa at the First Ministers'

meetings. I attended the meetings there. I know the role that he played in

getting money, and he had the money nailed down from September, I might add. He

got $2 billion when former premiers, one after the other, could do absolutely

nothing to get the attention of their own party or any party in Ottawa. Our

Premier got a commitment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: He got a commitment. It took a number of months to get it

delivered but he got a commitment and he delivered that commitment. Now, Mr.

Chair -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

The Chair would like to ask for the co-operation of members on both sides of

the House. The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board has

been recognized by the Chair and I ask if members on both sides will show their

respect of listening to the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Now they are saying that the credit for this deal now goes because of a

minority federal government. In other words, they are saying the Conservative

Party of Canada, that is the Opposition, is instrumental in getting this deal.

That is what they are saying. If it is a minority government, that is exactly

what they are saying. I think they were instrumental. They put it in writing

last year. They put it out there. They asked - and the New Democratic Party, I

will add. I give credit to the New Democratic Party, to have stood firm with our

Province on this deal.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I do not appreciate having it bundled with twenty-three

other items. I would like it to be on a stand-alone item and get dealt with in

the House of Commons as a single item there. We would love to see it. You could

amend the federal Budget to get $4.6 billion extra but you cannot amend it, the

stand-alone item that was put in writing on February 14 here in front of the

public in our Province.

There is so much good news in this Budget, Mr. Chair.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: No, I will compliment my colleagues here who played a role

in putting this here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: If you know anything about budgets, every person on that

side of the House who got -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

The Chair is reluctant to identify people who continue to shout back and

forth across the House, but he will be left with no alternative if it continues.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi on a point of order.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Chair, I believe the minister is misleading the House.

The rules of the House of Commons, according to his former colleague, the Member

for Burin-St. George's, does not allow it to be dealt with as a separate item

because it is part of the overall Budget. So, I do not know why he is saying

that it should be taken out. The Budget should be passed. The $2 billion should

be in our hands. We will get $12 million a month in interest on it. That is what

we should be doing, passing the Budget, the federal Budget.

CHAIR: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We were told that it could have been dealt with in March. When the regular

motion went through it could have been dealt with then, and it did not get dealt

with. This was signed in February. It was agreed to on January 28. It could have

been passed in the House of Commons in March and did not get done. It was left

to go with the Budget Implementation Act, but it could have been done. Anything

can be done with the consent of people. Anything can be done with a consent of a

House.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: It may not get done. They could have done it in March, I

might add. We had hoped it would get done in March. We waited, and when we

finalized the Budget we had to budget to have it by the end of June. We

anticipated - but there was an opportunity to do it, I say to the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi. There was an opportunity to do it in March. It did not

get done. I cannot speak to why the federal government chose not to do it in

March and chose to tie it in with (inaudible). Only they can answer that. I

cannot answer that question. That is a question that should be directed to them.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: I started last week. I got out a couple of days, but I hope

to start again now next month when the weather breaks, I might add.

Do you know what? As I sat here today I noticed that on that side of the

House, everybody that got elected since 1999 or before, every single one of them

were in Cabinet expect one. That is correct - the Member for the Bay of Islands.

They put everybody in Cabinet.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Two of you. Yes, the Member for Labrador West. The Member

for Bay of Islands, that is who it is. Yes, and the Member for Labrador West

said: No, not everybody. Well, obviously he has not.

Mr. Chair, I want to touch on some of the tremendous announcements in this

Budget. I know it will take probably an hour to complete them, but if I could

get leave, I just want to touch on a few. For example, Tourism, Culture and

Recreation: In that field we gave a commitment that we are going to enhance

tourism marketing so we can bring people here to our Province, attract them.

Last year, with a decline in tourism in the Maritime provinces, we held our own

here and we had a successful year in tourism, partly because we increased the

budget from any previous government and said, we will put a million a year into

it until we get up to the average Atlantic provinces. Now we are up to $8

million: $6 million two years ago, $7 million last year, and $8 million this

year. Mr. Chairman, that is a significant improvement here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: We have looked at a commitment in the Labrador Winter

Games, $500,000 in this Budget, a very worthwhile effort in recreation in our

Province.

Mr. Chair, $2.4 million will go to the culture industry in our Province.

Culture is a very important part of our Province.

MR. REID: What is the good of culture when you have nothing to eat, boy.

MR. SULLIVAN: The Member for Twillingate & Fogo might scoff at

culture in our Province, but I will tell the Member for Twillingate & Fogo

culture is an important part of this Province. He scoffs at putting money into

culture. He said it should not go into culture, it should go into something

else. Well, that is wrong.

MR. REID: They can't eat culture.

CHAIR: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When a member of this House says, they cannot eat culture, do not put money

into culture, put it into something else, he is depriving us of an opportunity

to market a very important product in our Province. It brings tourists here to

our Province and we use it here; people in the music industry and the arts

generally speaking. Numerous artists have made Newfoundland and Labrador a proud

place to live. Many artists have put us on the map across this country and

across the world.

My own district, my very first political rally, my very first function

running in an election in 1992, Alan Doyle played the guitar down in Petty

Harbour - the first one - for $75. Now he has helped put Newfoundland and

Labrador on the map. He scoffs at putting money into culture. You cannot eat

culture, he said. Well, I can tell you, it is unique to us, it is unique to our

Province, it puts us on the map and it is important. For the Member for

Twillingate & Fogo to say, not to put money into it, that is wrong. We

cannot put every cent into health because health is important. We cannot put

every cent into education. You have to do a balance.

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Chair, I am appalled that a member who sat in a Cabinet

of this Province and made decisions on the future of our Province said, not to

put money into culture, put it on the table. That is what he said here, shouting

across the House.

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Why doesn't he stand up in his place and talk?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Chair, they cannot take good news. They have not been

used to dealing with good news and they do not know how to react to good news.

One hundred and thirteen million into health care; 43,344 more procedures to

reduce waiting times for people in our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I went out to the Carbonear-Harbour Grace District to the

opening of a dialysis unit there. Many people in the area can benefit from those

services, Mr. Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Tremendous effort has been made to get this Province back on track. It has

been going down, where we are robbing on our children's future. We robbed Term

29, we robbed ferry money, and we spent it all. We robbed money from numerous

pots of federal money, spent it all and put it on the balance sheets of the

children and grandchildren of our Province for years to come

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: They were running us down a slippery slope in this

Province. We are going to turn it around.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I say to the hon. Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, that

his time for speaking has expired.

MR. SULLIVAN: An opportunity to finish up, as we gave them an

opportunity?

CHAIR: Does the hon. minister have leave?

MR. GRIMES: No leave.

MR. SULLIVAN: The Leader of the Opposition has denied leave.

CHAIR: There is no leave.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. chairman.

The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board has spoken several

times in this debate already and he can get up any other time and speak for a

full ten minutes, he does not need leave.

Mr. Chairman, let me make this point and it is a serious one. I believe today

he is probably up under some instruction to be supportive of his Premier,

because I understand, and the public understands, that last evening he may have

been the only one in the caucus meeting who might have supported the Member for

Placentia & St. Mary's. At least that is what the Member for Placentia

& St. Mary's has said publicly. I would suggest to you, Mr. Chairman, that

there are probably a lot more people today who believe verbatim what the Member

for Placentia & St. Mary's is saying publicly than some of the members

opposite.

In the actual press conference that was held by the Member for Placentia

& St. Mary's he talked about the fact that maybe the real problem here,

and these are his words, Mr. Chairman, maybe the real problem here, he said -

and he has asked the media to look into it. He said: I was thrown to the wolves

because the Premier is embarrassed because he got caught in a lie on Night Line.

That is a direct quote from the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's to the

public of Newfoundland and Labrador today.

He also said in that same press conference, that when he looked around to his

friends - some old ones from the last twelve years, and some new ones who have

only been there for a year-and-one-half - he asked them a very serious question

about democracy and the right to speak out. He said, basically, the Premier -

again these are his words, I am giving you the direct quote: A message arrived

from the Premier in Houston Texas. The message was an ultimatum to the caucus.

Maybe some of the members opposite have not heard this yet, it looks like some

of them are hearing it for the first time. The message said clearly they had a

choice, to choose between me or the Premier, but that either way next week both

of us would not be sitting at the same caucus table.

Here is the point about support. Here is the most telling part and why the

Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, in my view, Mr. Chairman,

is up today talking and, by the way, stretching the truth quite a bit about the

role the Premier played in certain things. I will come back to that. Here is the

Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, an independent member of this

Legislature. His seat is just over here on this side. These are his words: I

tried for four hours to defend myself, express the need for dialogue and debate

and even requested a vote, the cornerstone, the very cornerstone of democracy. I

told them all to take a good look around the room and ask themselves that if

this can happen to me, who is next? Very telling, Mr. Chairman, very telling.

He also said - and this is back to my point about the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board, which is why I believe he is trying to make amends

to the Premier today by praising up the Budget and talking about the role - he

also said, there is only one person who came to my defense and that was my

lifelong friend, the Member for Ferryland, the Minister of Finance, and the

President of Treasury Board. That is what he has said publicly, and the people

of the Province believe that man today. They believe him.

Mr. Chairman, I believe there is only one person left in the House right now

who sat with the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's and probably supported

him. I am not sure I will go further with that because there is lots of time to

talk about that. That will be talked about publicly in the Province for a long

time. When you make history, by the way, it tends to be remembered, and history

was made today in this Province; last night, actually, under the cover of

darkness again, not unfamiliar with this crew, in a meeting where, for four

hours, he tried to get people to stand up for democracy.

We had our veterans here today talking about what a wonderful contribution

they had made, and how we should all preserve it and how we should all thank

them. What do we have an example of? We had an example of over thirty freely

elected members on the other side kowtowing and being quashed by an ultimatum -

the bullet from Houston, as it was described by the member - that says: Pick

one.

The only crime he committed, Madam Chair, the only crime he committed, and he

describes the crime, is that he said: I cannot believe that we would not go

back- and here it is - Perhaps, he said, we could do the consultations that we

promised the fishermen in writing on April 21, 2004. That is a crime. He said,

again: Perhaps we could hold off for a year. That is the crime he committed. He

said: Did the punishment fit the crime?

The Premier of the Province ordered that, because he said that, because he

said we should do what we promised the group in writing and we should hold off

for a year and have the consultation that we promised them in writing - what is

the penalty for saying that out loud? The penalty for saying that out loud,

first of all, was a loss of $25,000, a little bit of a slap around, and then he

turned around and he ordered from afar, from Houston - because, I am telling

you, any other time in a caucus a real leader - and remember the theme of the

last campaign, Real Leadership The New Approach - a real leader would have said

to the caucus: If we have that much of an issue that we are about to make

history, that for the first time in the history of Newfoundland and Labrador a

caucus member is not going to leave of their own free will, like the Member for

Trinity North did - no one kicked him out; he left of his own free will. He made

up his own mind, and the Member for St. John's North says, good judgement.

Good judgement was not exercised last night, I would say, by anybody. The

only thing that happened last night was a total submission to a directive and an

order from the one-man show, from the person who says: Pick one. Don't dare

stand up for your constituents and say it out loud. Don't dare say it out

loud.

The other most telling remark that my colleague, the Member for Bay of

Islands, talked about, that came from this press release - and here is from a

lifelong Conservative who is described here today, joined by his

fourteen-year-old son, Fabian Junior, he said, who has been at thirteen

Progressive Conservative Conventions in the fourteen years of his life. That is

how much of a supporter of the Progressive Conservative Party he and his family

are. Here is what he says. It saddened him to say it: Alternate opinions are not

welcome or respected in the PC Party of today - because the PC Party of today is

led by a leader who said there will be a new approach. We have seen the new

approach. We have been saying it for a year, but nothing could demonstrate it

more clearly than the actions last night. The leadership, the new approach,

said: I will tell you. I will not even have the decency of saying, if we are

about to make history and if we are about to throw somebody out of a caucus for

the first time ever, let's not do it until I get back. Let me come back. Hold

off. Stop the meeting. Don't do that while I am not here. Let's get them

together. Let's do this face to face. Instead, what happened? Was it real

leadership? No, but there was a new approach. The new approach said: I am

sending you a message. Read it out in the caucus and tell everybody.

The Government House Leader, the Minister of Natural Resources, the Member

for Kilbride, explained it to the media today when he was asked. He said: I am

the one who read the message. I read the message in the caucus, and the message

was clear. One of us will be in this room next week, not two of us, so make up

your minds.

Now, that will be on the evening news tonight. The members can talk about how

we do not talk about what is in caucus but, I am telling you, there are some

people chirping like canaries. They are out there singing like tweety birds,

telling all kinds of things, and there will be more of it.

Madam Chair, make no wonder the Finance Minister was up today, because the

Finance Minister was cut a little bit of slack by the Member for Placentia &

St. Mary's. He said: He is the only one who came to my defence. That means

that all the rest - and he described - here are the independent member's own

words: The knives came out. The knives came out.

What he is saying publicly is that the only one who did not really take the

knife and drive it in was the Member for Ferryland, the Minister of Finance, the

President of Treasury Board. I would think I would liken it more, probably, to

Sir Lancelot and the giant lance and sabre that they were trying to put into a

rock, except they were trying to put it into the front, or the back in this

case, either one, of the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

I can tell you, Madam Chair, they are uncomfortable, and so they should be,

because they participated in something that they should be truly ashamed of, if

they are not, and we will talk about it lots of times more.

MADAM CHAIR (S. Osborne): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time has expired.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Madam Chair.

We will return to these issues and many others related to the Budget as the

debate goes on.

MADAM CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have always believed that - first of all, I should say that I am completely

confused here today. I thought we were involved in the Budget here. I do know

where the hon. Leader of the Opposition is coming from today. Of course, I

noticed this over the past few months, since I have been elected, that he

continues to play politics all the time to try to get the air time whenever he

can get it, and to try to inflame the people as much as possible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: I have a message to send to him today, and the message is very

simple today: The people of Newfoundland and Labrador are sick of this silly

politics. They are sick of it!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Madam Chair, they spoke very loud on October 21, 2003, and we

can see that here today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: I guess I am really getting their goat today.

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. ORAM: Thank you.

By nature, I have always believed in being positive about things, and I am

trying to be positive here today. I am trying to be positive about a Budget that

is a positive Budget. The fact of the matter is that the members opposite can

continue to cloud the issue of the Budget and not debate the Budget - because

the Leader of the Opposition today took all of this time that he was supposed to

be debating this Budget, which is his job, no question about it. The people of

Newfoundland and Labrador want an Opposition, they want an Opposition Leader,

and they want him there to debate the Budget. They do not want him to go on with

the silliness that he has gotten on with today. They want him to debate a

Budget.

I believe today that there are many positive things in this Budget. As long

as you talk about the negatives, you tend to become negative.

I heard a story a little while ago that was very, very interesting. It was

about this fellow who went to a boxcar in this big train, and he got into the

boxcar and closed the door accidentally and it locked. Right away, he started

thinking about the negatives. Oh, my Lord! I am in this boxcar and I don't

know what I am going to do. I am stuck in here. I am going to die. I am going to

freeze to death, in fact. He felt that he was going to freeze to death right

away. He started thinking about all of the negative things, just like we have

listened to today, all of the negative things. The people of the Province are

listening to all of these negative things.

Do you know what happened to that guy? He actually was locked in that boxcar

for twelve hours, and at the end of the twelve hours - I want you to tell you

what happened to him, because this is a good story. Listen to it, it is a good

story. I will tell you what happened to him, that guy actually died in that

boxcar. He died of hypothermia. Do you know what the temperature was? The

temperature was plus ten degrees. It just shows what negative thinking and

negative talk is going to do for this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: What we are doing in this Province is we are going to be

positive. It is time for us to be positive!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: I look at a cup of water, I do not talk about it being half

empty, I look at it as being half full. It is time for the Opposition, when you

go out to your districts, start talking positive.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: The people in this Province want to hear positive talk. Let me

tell the members opposite, the people in your districts want to heard positive

talk. They are tired of negative talk. They had listened to that for years and

years when you people were in government and they said on October 21: Guess

what? Boys, we have had enough of it. We have had enough of that. We want to

hear from a government that is going to be positive; that is going to have good

initiatives; that is going to do good things. And we are doing good things in

this Province, Madam Chair.

I am sure that the members opposite are not happy with what I am saying

today. They do not want me to talk positive because, of course, they want me to

talk about the negatives that are out there in the Province. Guess what?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind hon. members that the Member for Terra Nova has the floor. I ask you

to show some respect.

The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. ORAM: Thank you for your protection, Madam Chair.

I just want to say that the fact of the matter is that we want to be a

positive government, we want to do positive things. We have done positive

things. Let me tell you something - and I am well aware of this. I am well aware

that we did not do everything that was perfect in this eighteen months that we

have been elected. I am well aware of that. I know you guys cannot believe that

across the way.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you. I realize that, but do you know what? Let me tell

you something, what an old fellow said to me a little while ago. It was just a

short time ago. He said to me: Do you know what, Paul? Your government has done

more in this Province in the past eighteen months than what I have seen the

other crowd do for fifteen years. That is positive!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: And I am very pleased to be a part of this government.

Now, I have to agree. I started out and I said I was not going to be

negative. So I am going to try to get off this and I am going to start talking

about the Budget because all of a sudden I am not talking about the Budget. I

have to get to the Budget.

I want to talk for a few minutes, if I can, because my time is getting

limited, about what we have done in tourism this year and what this Budget does

for tourism. Tourism increases employment and revenue across this Province. My

district, for instance, has a fair bit of tourism. In tourism, this Budget

includes an additional $1 million for the tourism marketing budget and bringing

the tourism marketing expenditures to $8 million. What an initiative, $8

million.

Now, let me talk about this for a second. I hear a lot of times the negatives

about the fact that we are anti-rural Newfoundland and Labrador. How silly! I

cannot believe this, Madam Chair. Let me tell you something, the base of tourism

is in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and we just put $8 million - part of it -

into rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: What a positive initiative! We are also going to put -

$100,000, will be provided in each of the next three years for Destination

Labrador to implement a marketing and product development program, and $500,000

is allocated for the Labrador Winter Games. Now I am sure that the members

opposite would not want us to say: No, we are not going to bother with Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: Because I feel really good about the fact that the Member for

Labrador West said: this is one of the best Budget's, if not the best Budget,

that he has ever seen come out of government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: That is positive, more positive news. I am so glad that I have

heard so many things about being positive. I am a positive person by nature and

I continue to be positive.

Another thing, $120,000 to enhance visitor services in the Province and

$50,000 from the existing tourism budget to extend the operating season for

provincially owned visitor information centres. Is that important? Absolutely!

Do you know what? I remember going - when another government was in power, I

will not say which particular government, just a few years ago. I remember

driving through the Province, because we did a fair bit of camping and

motorhoming, and if you go too late in the season there are no visitation

(inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. ORAM: Thank you again for your protection, Madam Chair.

I say to the members opposite who do not like the fact that I own a

motorhome, let me tell you, I do own a motorhome, it is a thirty-five foot

motorhome and I am very proud of the fact that I bought it myself; my wife,

ourselves. We did very well. We did very well in rural Newfoundland and Labrador

and we continue to do well in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: I take exception, just as fisher people take exception in this

Province when people talk about their large trucks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: I made a statement last week, and I will do it again today,

when I say to you that I am very happy that fisher people have big trucks, very

happy. It means they are prospering. Where are they prospering? They are

prospering in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: It is amazing! It is absolutely amazing. I am still looking for

a few negatives and I am finding it very difficult to find any in this Budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. ORAM: Anyway, let's keep talking about the great things that this

government is doing. Other expenditures include $1.3 million over the next two

years towards the development of a new provincial training centre. We are doing

all sorts of things right across this Province to enhance even the situation in

terms of athletics in this Province, and that is very important to us. Just a

little while ago, of course, the Premier had given out these awards. I was so

pleased that three people from my district had actually received an award in

their athletic abilities. We have the talent in this Province, it is absolutely

unbelievable, and we want to continue to foster that talent in this Province.

I also want to talk about the environment for a few minutes, Madam Chair. I

know my time is starting to pass by but, you know, we have done so much with the

environment in the past little while. I just want to talk about one of the

priorities in the Budget. One million dollars for an environmental clean-up at

the former military site in St. Anthony; $300,000 for climate change

initiatives; an additional $700,000, for a total of $1 million, to initiate a

five-year road salt management plan, among other things.

Now, I do not know about you guys, but I drive, obviously, from Glovertown to

St. John's a number of times. I am usually home every weekend. Yes, I do own a

car by the way, for the members opposite who may think that is a terrible thing,

and I do own a truck. But, when I drive over the road I find that there is an

awful lot of salt. I do not know if anybody across the way have this, but I find

there is a lot of salt on my vehicles and all this stuff, and I have always

wondered what that is actually doing for the environment. I am pleased to say

today that we are looking at initiatives to look at salt management plans, among

other things.

Another thing that I look at with the environment; we have put money into

education programs within this Province, and just a little while ago the

Minister of Environment had gone ahead and put some money into planning for

students and doing education in terms of recycling, and the