Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 4 (27th Legislature, 4th Session)

27-4-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

'j;L<.A--??� THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2:30 o'clock, �. February 25th, 1965. Opening Prayer by Madam Speaker. MADAM SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions 33 MR. FRED GROVES, (St. Vital): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the Petition of the Ice Club of Greater Winnipeg praying for the passing of

an Act to amend

an Act to incorporate the Ice Club of Greater Winnipeg. MADAM SPEAKER: Reading an.d Receiving Petitions Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees Notices of Motion Introduction of Bills HONOURABLE STEW ART E. McLEAN, Q. C. (Attorney-General), (Dauphin) intm� doced Bill No. 13,

an Act to amend The

Summary Convictions-Act. MR. McLEAN introduced Bill No. 15,

an Act to amend The Animal Husbandry Act. HONOURABLE OBIE BAIZLEY, (MINISTER OF LABOUR), (Osborne) introduced Bill No. 4,

an Act to amend The Fire Departments Arbitration Act. · HONOURABLE ROBERT G. SMELLIE, Q. C., . (Minister of .Municipal Affa,irs), (Birtle-. Russell) introduced Bill No. 14,

an Act to amend The Municipal Act (1) .. MR. SMELLIE introduced Bill No. 20,

an Act to amend The Municipal Act (2). HONOURABLE GEORGE JOHNSON, (Minister of Education), (Gimli) introduced B.ill No. 23,

an Act to amend The Education Department Act. HONOURABLE GEORGE HUTTON, (Minister of Agriculture), (Rockwood-lberville) introduced Bill No. 30,

an Act to amend The Dairy Act. HO�OURABLE STERLING R. LYON, Q. C., ( Minister of Mines and Natural Resources), (Fort Garry) introduced Bill No. 17,

an Act to amend The Mines and Natural Res.ources Department Act. HONOURABLE GURNEY EVANS, (Minister of Industry and Commerce), (Fort Rouge): Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources, that Madam Speaker do now leave .the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider the proposed resolution standing in my name and in the name of the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture and Conservation, the Honour3ble the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources and the Honourable the Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried, and the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole with the Honourable Member for Winnipeg Centre. in the Chair. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE MR. EV ANS: Mr. Chairman, His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor having been informed of the subject matter of the proposed resolutions,_ recommends them to the House, MR. CHAIRMAN: Is the Committee ready to consider the resolutions?

FirstHesolu tion: Resolved that it is expedient to bring in a measure establishing a Horse Racing Commission in Manitoba and providing among other matters, that advances be made from and out of the Consolidated Fund of such amounts as the Commission may require from time to time . .

MR.· EV ANS: It's deemed expedient by those who own horses.and by those who operate tracks that there should be a commission to govern racing so that -- nothing on, any hand .is alleged to be wrong, but they think it would present a better appearance to the racing public if the government of racing was put in the hands of an independent commission. It is pro: posed to establish such a co=ission which is expected to be self7supporting, except that should a deficit occur there may be some call on the public funds, but such a deficit is not expected. .. . MR. GILDAS MOLGAT, (Leader of the Opposition), (Ste.

Rose): ,Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Minister would give some more details as to the structure of the cpmmission. Could he tell us for example ll.ow many commissioners it· i!? .expec:teli to have, and who will name the commissioners, and once it is in operation, to Whom will these people be February 25th, 1965 Page 33

34 (MR. MOLGAT, cont'd) ... responsible -- to the goVernment or to the owners of the horses or to the owners of the track. I know that both groups, the track owners and the horse owners, have requested this in the past but I would like to know exactly what the structure will be. Then, so far as the payments to the individuals on the commission, who will set their re muneration? I note that the resolution says that we may pay out of the Consolidated Fund such amounts as the commission may require. The Minister said that the commission would be self-supporting.

Where does he anticipate that their funds will come from? Who will set the salaries, the government or the commission itself? MR. MORRIS A. GRAY, (Inkster): Mr. Chairman, will the approval of this resolution confirm that the government is in favour of horse races? MR. T. P. HILLHOUSE, Q. C., (Selkirk): Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Member for Inkster has put a thought in my mind along the same lines. I recall when bills were before this House a number of years ago that the present Premier, then Leader of the Opposition, was very vehement in his opposition to the number of days allotted to horse racing in Manitoba.

Now are we to assume that the government now accepts the status quo of horse racing and it does not intend to reduce the number of days allocated for that purpose? MR. RUSSELL PAULLEY, (Leader of the New Democratic Party), (Radisson): I think, Mr. Chairman, if I may say a word in connection with this resolution, that the Honourable Member for Selkirk has brought forward a very valid point.

I too was thinking of the debates that took place in this House and if I recall correctly at that particular time they were generally on a non-political basis as far as the setting of the days of horse racing in the province were concerned.

I am wondering whether or not it is the intention of the Minister of Industry and Commerce, and quite frankly I don't see too much relation between Industry and Commerce in the development of Manitoba insofar as horse racing is concerned, at least as far as my personal opinion is concerned, because I think that this is one of the ventures that possibly we in Manitoba could do well without in order to retain in the pockets of many of our citizens dollars that they require. However, that is just a personal observation.

But I do ask the Minister whether or not this commission may be charged with the setting of the number of days during which it is permissible for horse racing to take place, and also I am interested in whether or not this commission will have jurisdiction over the varied horse racing activities in the province, such as harness racing, the trotters or whatever they are out here at Assiniboia Downs, whether this is an all-embracing commission or whether or not it's a commission that is just going to look after what we normally describe as the horse racing at Assiniboia Downs. MR. NELSON SHOEMAKER, (Glad.stone): Mr.

Chairman, I would like to know if my honourable friend can tell the Assembly if he really expects that the coffers of the province will be better off as a result of the commission. That is, will there be an added revenue to the province in addition to the payments that are necessary to pay the commission. I under stand that it is expected that it will be self-supporting. There will be some kind of a levy made I suppose on those that participate to pay for the commission, but in addition to all that are we going to be any better off, that's what I would like to know, Mr. Chairman. MR. J.M.

FROESE, (Rhineland): Mr. Chairman, when the Minister said that it' s going to be self-supporting, are they going to deduct the costs of the commission from the taxes that are presently being levied on horse racing? MR. EV ANS: If there are no further questions, Mr. Chairman. I think the Leader of the Opposition's questions can best be answered when we have the bill in front of us which sets out the composition of the commission and how it will operate. I would undertake to answer questions of detail at that.thne. The bill has no reference whatever to days of racing or length of racing.

The bill deals only with the governing of the practice and the conduct of people on the track. It has nothing to do with whether there shall be raCl.ng or shall not be racing. The commission would be intended to govern all forms of racing, to have jurisdiction over all forms of racing, and I think it would not be intended that any revenue should accrue to the province from the operation of the commission. . MR. ELMAN GUTTORMSON, (St. George): Mr. Chairman, is it true that the bill proposed by the government is modelled after the Ontario commission? Page 34 February 25th, 19€5 • I I I

35 MR. EVANS: Yes, Mr. Chairman. MR. GUTTORMSON: How many members will be on the co=ission? MR. EV ANS: I was asked that question before and I suggest that it would be better t() deal with that when the bill is before us: MR. GUTTORMSON: The Minister said that there would be no monies required from the Consolidated Fund. Could he explain how this is derived? MR. EV ANS: I didn •t say that there would be no monies required. The reason we were introducing a resolution now is that there might be monies required to cover a deficit if one should occur.

However, it is intended that the co=ission charge sufficient fees for such people as they supervise, the people who own horses, the people who race them, the people who operate tracks, those who are jockeys and other attendants at the race track and so on, to cover their costs and that matter will be under their jurisdiction. MR. HILLHOUSE: Mr. Chairman, isn't it a fact that all monies collected by the province are paid into the Consolidated Fund? MR. EV ANS: I'm sorry, I didn •t understand the question. MR. HILLHOUSE: You made reference to Consolidated Fund.

Isn't it a fact that all monies collected by the province are paid into Consolidated Fund? MR. EV ANS: I'm not aware -- I don't think that question comes under this particular resolution we have in front of us. MR. DOUGLAS L. CAMPBELL, (Lakeside): Is it not a fact that so fa.Jr as the betting is concerned,. and I can say that the betting angle is of very great consequence to the govern ment the same as it was in our day, that the betting features are closely controlled by either the federal government or the provincial government, or both.

Is that not a fact, and is that not after all the main thing that we are interested in so far as the Legislature is concerned? MR. EVANS: I think it's true to say that the conduct of pari-mutuel betting' is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Agriculture in Ottawa through their connection with the fairs, etc. , and my honourable friend is right, but this commission will not have jurisdiction in that field. It will have responsibility for such things as tests of horses to see whether they have been drugged or otherwise unfair practices used.

They will be in charge of such officials as the stewards who observe the conduct of races and see whether there has been any foul play and so on -- all the rules governing the conduct of racing on the track. MR. GUTTORMSON: The Minister indicated that the cost of the. co=ission would be covered to a large degree by the fees charged to the trainers and the owners and the grooms who would come under their jurisdiction. Would this mean an additional fee to what they are now paying? MR.

EV ANS: I'm not aware of what the present scale is or whether the scale which will be proposed by the co=ission will be larger or smaller. I'm not able to answer the question. CHAillMAN: Shall the resolution be adopted? The second resolution for consideration is: Resolved that it is expedient to bring in a measure to amend The Horned Cattle Purchases Act by providing that a cattle dealer who makes deductions under that Act from the. purchase price paid to the vendor of cattle with horns may, in remitting the amount deducted to the Minister, retain five per centum thereof. MR. HUTTON: Mr.

Chairman, tlie resolution explains itself very welt The reason for the resolution is that it has been the practice for many years to allow these people to retain the five percent for the trouble and expense in making these deductions. It was brought to the attention of the Department by the Comptroller-General that there was no legislative authority for this practice and we are seeking this authority at this time. MR. SHOEMAKER: Mr .. Chairman, my honourable friend is referring to the auction marts.

I suppose the legislation is primarily designed so that the auction mart operators can get a slight co=ission for coll�cting the two dollars. I suppose that's one of the. purposes anyway. N0w, Mr; Chairman, I would like to know if my honourable.friend really thinks that the horned cattle fund is doing the job that it shol).ld do. According to our report that we have before us, Department of Agriculture and Conservation, on Page 58 it looks as if there is a large number of cattle st.ill coming in with horns on it.

It reports arou.nd twelve percent, one out of every eight head of cattle they deduct two dollars for horris, if I interpret this page correctly. Is the situation much improved over what it was ten or twelve, twenty years ago? February 25th, 1965 Page 35

36 MIC SHOEMAKER, cont'd .... This is what I would be interested in, if this is the. proper time to ask the question, Mr. Chairman. ·. · · · · MR. FROESE: Mr. Chairman; 'while we are on this re�oititioft, 'lwO!lder if th� Minister wmdd care tO answer a question�· That is, ·if we are going to shirt pitying on� group �q� collect ing a tax, and I think this is what it actually amounts to, , are we_ goihg to do tb.� ,saine· thing for other groups? Are'we going to be coinlistent in·this policy? . . . . ' .· . MR. HUTTON: Mr.

Chair�arr, the situation with regard tb' fnipr"dvemeht in the practice of .Shipping horned cattle is the only fair way to report the situa1.ion is to say that it's been static for some time. · There hasn·•t been any improvement. · •' With respect to the question put to me by the member for Rhinelanii, I don•tthink that it's a question here of equating the practices in respect to services rendered in terms. �f de� ductions made by people who make deductions· on behalf of either tbe'riepartment of Agriculture or any other department.

The question in point here is that for many y�ars ·now thisfive per cent allowance has been made and we are just bringing the legislation in line to comply with the practice on the recommendation of the Comptroller-GeneraL . ·. ·. ' . · · ' . , •. CHAIRMAN: Resolution passed? Next resolution: Resolved that it is expedient to bring in a measure to amend The Mineral Taxation Act by providing: (ll) tha:t where th� tax payable by an owner in any year as computed under that Act is less than one dollar, no taX shall be . paid; and (

b) for a-change in the method of ascertaining the actual value _for the purposes o( assessment in any year of the crude petroleum oil in, on, or urtder, any land. . · .·. · MR. LYON: Mr. Chairman, the expected effect on the Trea�ury with respect to the first amendment is about $550 .0 0 a year. Exemption is being recommended to the' House on the basis of the'cost of collecting the $550 .0 0. These assessments of a dollar or less is more now than the actuat revenue that is derived from it.

The second ()ne is''riotexpectedt e)'have any-effect on rev.enues, although it does represent a change· iti the ·schedul�.' Again, �e find that the assessor is practically unable;· at the present time, to complete h.is assessment roll under the present statutory provision and so we're asking that it be changed and that thebasis of aSsessment be one and a half times the value of the average field !?rice during the last three months of the next preceding year.

Again, this is done in order to assist in the administrative work in connection with the assessment, but no great change is expected in the effeCt on the Treasury. MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, I take it by passing this resolution ther.e is no intention on the part of the government to relieve some of the taxation ori the gasoline of those who�are making a living out of their trucks or cars. Am I right or wrong? Am I right that they are ncit considering the· other? · · MR. MARK G. SMERCHANSKI, (Burrows): Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Minister would explain in more detail on their item (a).

Does this refer to mineral claims or does this refer to the taxlhat•s assessed on mineral claims that mightbe patented? It sounds rather odd that we should have outstanding amounts in terms of taxes that would be less than one dollar. It's rather an; unusual amount, and I wonder if the Minister could explain in lllore de-: tail as to whether it means on one parcel of land comprising of one claim, say, or does this. mean a larger are·a than one c laiin? . · MR. LYON: This refers almost exclusively to oil assessments in the 'l'own.of Vi�'den. CHAIRMAN: Resolution passea?

The next resolution to be consid!'lred is: Resolved that it is expedient to bring in a measure respecting public health in the province and providing, amori·g either matters, that the coat of administering the Act be paid from and out of the Con., solidated Fund. HONOURABLE CHARLES H. WITNEY, (Minister of Health), (Flin Flon): Mr. Chairman, this simply provides for a complete revision of The Public Health Act� . MR. GRAY: How' wa.S it paid until now? · . MR. WITNEY: It has been paid through the estimates ilndei: the J>resent Act. . MR. PAlJLLEY: Them, Mr.

Chairman, did the Honourable Minister say that this makeS, provision for a complete revision of The Health Act of the province:? If thiJ.t being so, I �sk . my honourable friend whether in the. revision of The Health Act of Manitoba, thafthere �s pi:o vision iri the said Act for a 'i::omprehensive and universal medicare sche:tp.e for the citizenE! .. . · of the Province of Manitoba. · · · ' · · · · · · · · · · ·· Page 36 - I I I I I l

31 MR. WITNEY: This is simply a revision of the present Public Health Act. MR. PAULLEY: It ake it, Mr. Chairman, fro:tn the remarks of the Minister it will still be the old stuff only in a new cover, . Is that the inference that I get from his last state ment, that it is merely a revision of the old Act? MR. WITNEY: This will be a very modern improved Act that will be of benefit to the Province of Manitoba. MR.

PAULLEY: I say to my honourable friend that if it. is going to be an improved Act for the Province of Manitoba and for our citizens, that it cannot be much of an improvement until such time as the government opposite recognizes the need, and makes provision in Legislation for a Medicare Act in the Province of Manitoba. MR. HILLHOUSE: I wonder if the Minister would tell me whether or no in the new Act it is the intention of the province to assume greater responsibility for public health rather than foist it upon the municipalities of Manitoba. MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall the resolution be passed?

Committee rise and report. Call in the Speaker. Madam Speaker, the Committee of the Whole House has adopted certain resolutions and directed me to report the same. MR. JAMES COW AN, Q. C., (Winnipeg Centre): Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Pembina, that the report of the Committee be re ceived. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. EVANS introduced Bill No. 52,

an Act respecting the Horse Racing Commission. MR. HUTTON introduced Bill No. 31,

an Act to amend The Horned Cattle Purcha.Ses Act. MR. LYON introduced Bill No. 16,

an Act to amend The Mineral Taxation Act. MR. WITNEY introduced Bill No. 3,

an Act respecting public health. MADAM SPEAKER: Before the Orders of the Day, I believe some of the schools have left, but there are some, or were if they are not still with us, some 60 Grade 8 students from Frontenac School under the direction of their teachers, Mrs. Desrochers and Mr. Chomiczuk. This school is situated in the constituency of the Honourable the Leader of the New Democratic Party. There are 40 pupils from Grade 11 from Garden City Collegiate under the direction of their teacher, Mr. Groff. This school is situated in the constituency of the Honourable the Member for Seven Oaks.

There are some 35 Grade 11 students from West Kildonan School under the direction of their teacher, Mr. Froese. This school is situated also in the constituency of the Honourable the Member for Seven Oaks. _On .behalf of all members of the Manitoba Legislative Assembly, I welcome you. MR. EV ANS: Madam Speaker, before you proceed with the Orders _ of the Day, I would like to lay on the table of the House copies of the submissions on behalf of the Government of Manitoba to the Commission of Enquiry into the future of Air Canada Overhaul and Maintenance Base in Winnipeg and related matters. MR.

McLEAN: Before the Orders of the Day, I should like to lay on the table of the House the 41st Annual Report of the Liquor Control Commission of Manitoba for the fiscal year April lst, 1963 to March 31st, 1964. This report was completed some time ago and a copy of the report was sent to each member of the Assembly. Madam Speaker, if I may, yesterday the Honourable the Member for Logan asked me a question respecting the people at the Jail for Women at Portage la Prairie and I am glad to inform him of the answers to his questions. These figures are for the 24th of February - yesterday.

There were 46 inmates in the Women's Jail at Portage la Prairie. Eighteen of these were Indians and 14 of the 18 were Treaty Indians; 13 Metis; and the balance, 15 -- it says white here. I presume it means other than Indian or Indian descent. And if I may also, Madam Speaker, yesterday during the question period the Honourable the Member for Selkirk asked me a number of questions touching upon the resident ·judge in the northern judicial district, and on reading them I find that I misinformed him on one item.

The very final question he asked was whether I could say whether or not arrangements had been made by the Federal Government to pay the travelling expenses and the per diem alaow ances of a judge servingthe northern judicial district from, Winnipeg, and I answered, "Yes, those arrangements have been made. " I was in error and I apologize to him. While the February 25th, 1965 Page 37

38 "MR. McLEAN, cont'd .. .. . arrangements were certainly made, that is arrangements - using that term in a general sense __ ,were made between the Honourable the Minister of Justice at Ottawa and myself, and I would have to say that l did not specifically cover the question of the per diem or travelling expenses, and so I cannot answer "Yes" to that speciiic question at this time. MR.

MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day are acted into, I do not like to correct you and I know that there were a large number of classes here today,, but I think I should point out that there is a group that came in 180 miles from what I might call the finest constituency in Manitoba and they are still in the gallery. MADAM SPEAKER: I must apologize to the students.

I would like to inform the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition that I usually receive a paper to tell me this and I thought that your students were not here, but on behalf of all Members of the Legislative Assembly we welcome you from the constituency of the Honourable the Leader of the Opposi tion. MR.

HUTTON: Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I would like to table the following reports: the Anntral Report of the Department of Agriculture and Conservation for the year ended March 31st, 1964; the Annual Report of the Manitoba Crop Insurance Corpora tion; the Annual Report of the Manitoba Water Supply Board; and the Annual Report of the · Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation; also, the Annual Report of the Co-Operative Promotion Board.

I would like to say, Madam Speaker, that copies of the Annual Report of the Department of Agriculture and Conservation and the Manitoba Crop Insurance Corporation were forwarded to the members of the Legislature some time ago. Copies of the other reports tabled today will be made available to them. Before I take my seat, Madam Speaker, I would like to present the first report of the Flood Forecasting Committee which met on Wednesday, February 24th, 1965. The committee met to review the situation covering flood prospects on the Red and Assiniboine Rivers.

The committee's conclusions are that the river stages in Winnipeg will be well below the first flood stage of 18 feet city datum. On the Assiniboine River the committee' s conclusions are that spring peaks will be confined within the banks along most of its course. The committee advised that a subsequent meeting will be held in March to again review the situation as re gards flood prospects in light of conditions existing at that time.

The following information was available to the committee for its appraisal of the situation: Results of a snow survey made by the Water Control and Conservation Branch during the period February 15th to 19th in the basins oi the Red and Assiniboine Rivers in Manitoba and Saskatchewan; a soil moisture survey made by the same Branch at freeze-up last fall; records of fall and early winter flow in both streams as recorded by the Federal Water Resources Branch; and meteorological information on fall and winter precipitation obtained by the Meteorological Service of Canada at stations in the watersheds of these rivers in Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Madam Speaker, I would like to, if I may at this time, announce to the House that the Manitoba Hog Marketing Commission began its operations today. It began selling at 10:00 a. m. this morning and the last report that I had is that 720 swine were marketed through the agency today at a price range of $24. 75 to $25. 00 per cwt. One lot of sows were sold at $17. 05 on a liveweight basis.

All of the eight meat packing companies who have buying machines have participated in the sales made by the commission, and I would like if the page boys would dis tribute this brochure put out by the Manitoba Hog Marketing Commission which outlines the operations of the board and some of the pertinent questions that are raised by interested people. MR. CAMPBELL: Madam Speaker, I would like to address a question to the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture. Does he have the figure as to the number of hogs that were marketed outside of the commission? MR. HUTTON: No, Madam Speaker, I do not. MR.

SMELLlE: Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I would like to lay on the table of the House a copy of a regulation under The Winter Employment Act as required by that Act, and the Sixth Annual �eport of the Mtrnicipal Board for the year ending December 31, 1964. Copies of the report of the Municipal Board have already been distributed to the Page 38 February 25th, 1965 I • I I I • • I

39 MR. SMELLIE, cont'd .... . members. MADAM SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. HONOURABLE MAITLAND B. STEINKOPF, Q.

C., (Provincial Secretary and Minister of Public utilities), (River Heights): Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I would like to lay on the table of the House the report of the Department of the Provincial Secretary, which includes the report of the Queen's Printer, for the fiscal year that ended on the 31st day of March, 1964; the 25th Annual Report of the Manitoba Civil Service Superannuation Fund; and the 13th Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro Electric Board for the year ended March 31, 1964. MR. S.

PETERS, (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I would like to ask the Minister of Health if he could give this House a statement of any meetings that he has had with the small meat processors and the small meat slaughter-houses in the Province of Manitoba, or any meetings that he's had with the Federal Department of Agri culture in regards of the Canada Approved meat inspection. MR. WITNEY: Madam Speaker, I will take the question as notice. MR. E. R. SCHREYER, (Brokenhead): Madam Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the First Minister.

I didn't give him notice but I think that the nature of 1the question is such that he will be able to answer. I would like to ask him if any consultations, specifically formal consultations, if any have been held between the provinces of Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Manitoba relative to the Joint Economic Council that was mentioned earlier. HONOURABLE DUFF ROBLIN, (Premier and Provincial Treasurer), (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, there has been some correspondence and some informal consultations.

My hope is that at the next Dominion-Provincial Conference, which I expect to receive notice of momentarily, that we may have further meetings to bring the matter closer to a conclusion. MR.

HILLHOUSE: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the Honourable the Attorney-General for correcting the answer to a question which I asked him yesterday, and in view of the correction to that answer, I wonder if he would allow me to propose a supplementary question and that is this, that due to the fact that Canada is making no allowance, that is per diem allowance or travelling allowance for the County Court Judge who will be ex<lercising juris diction in the northern judicial district and who goes from Winnipeg into that district, in view of the fact that the Federal Government is making no allowance for travelling or for per diem expenses and in view of the fact that under the rules of court at least one week every month must be spent by that judge in that area, could the Honourable the Attorney-General advise the House what it is going to cost the Province of Manitoba to pay these travelling expenses and per diem allowances?

MR. McLEAN: Madam Speaker, I do not think that it would be a correct inference to take from my answer that the Federal Government was not going to pay the travelling allowances. The arrangements with respect to the courts in the northern judicial districts were discussed on three occasions by myself with the Minister of Justice and it is my under standing that we have a complete understanding with regard to the method to be followed, and I had assumed that that of course would include the travelling expenses.

On looking at the question that I was asked yesterday, the specific question, I would have to say that in our discussions there had been no mention of the travelling allowances although I had assumed that that was included, and I would have to be quite frank to say that that specific matter was not mentioned, so that the question is not correctly based, if I might use that expression.

The other side, the other portion of the question referring to the courts having to be held once each month, the Honourable the Member for Selkirk I believe will know that that pro vision of The County Courts Act has not as yet been proclaimed so that that requirement does not exist at the present moment, and I would have to say that the matter of what arrangements were to be followed will be dependent upon our further discussions in that regard. MR. LEMUEL HARRI S, (Logan): I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Labour.

In view of the fact that the Dominion Government of Canada has introduced a bill to provide for the Minimum Wage Act of $1. 25 per hour for workers under federal jurisdiction, has the government of Manitoba asked the Minimum Wage Board of the province to convene to consider an increase in our minimum wage? MR. BAIZLEY: Madam Speaker, the Minimum Wage Board has been asked to convene. February 25th, 1965 Page 39

40 MR. PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, may I direct a supplementalq u'e�tion'"- was itin this regard Mr. Hillhouse? -- (Interjection) -- May I ask a supplementa1question to the Honourable the_ Minister of Labour? Were there any directives- given td the MinimUm Wage Board or recommendation as to what the Minimum Wage recommendat'ion might be? MR. BAIZLEY:' There were not. _ MR. HILLHOUSE: Madam, I would like to address a further question to the Attorney General arising out of the answer which he gave just now.

What !'would like to know deC:: finitely, and I don't think the Honourable Minister's answer was quite clear on the point, is the Federal Government paying the travelling expenses and the per diem allowances or not? MR. -M cLEAN: Madam Speaker, I believe that the Federal Government will be paying the expenses. I fully expect they will be paying them, but if the hottourable member asks· me specifically have they said so, up to this moment they have not. MR. HILLHOUSE: Madam, may I ask this question?

Is not the Attorney- General aware of the fact that unless an arni.ngementis made with the Federal Government they will not pay these expenses? . MR. McLEAN: Madam Speaker, I wa8 under the impression that I had such an arrange ment -- that we have such an arrangement. MR. HILLHOUSE: Madam, if I may direct -- (Interjection) -- no it is not on the same.

If I may direct a further question to the Honourable the Attorney�General, and I may have to preface my remarks by a little statement something similar to the Honourable Member for Inkster, but arising out of a mention in the 'I'hrone Speech about some legislation being brought in regarding magistrates, I wonder if the Honourable the Attorney-General, in order to give to the opposition members of this House an opportunity of studying the magisterial problem in this province as presented to the government by a brief submitted by the Manitoba Magistrates Association, be kind enough to furnish the opposition members of this House with a copy of that brief.

I can assure the Honourable Minister that I am not submitting this re quest in a partisan way but I am simply submitting this request in the interests of the adinini- stration of justice. _ MR. McLEAN: Madam Speaker, that question is not really supplementary to the questions the Honourable Member for Selkirk was asking before.

The brief to which he has made reference has not as yet been presented to the government. -Whether or not copies could be made available I think would depend entirely on the Magistrates Association, and because it is their brief, that any request for it would have to be directed to their association. I think it would not be proper for us to release documents presented to us by outside associa tions. MR.

HILLHOUSE: Would the Honourable the Attorney-General be kind enough to contact the president of the Manitoba Magistrates Association and obtain his permission to giving to the members of the opposition a copy of that brief? MR. McLEAN: I think it would hardly be proper for me to be acting as an agent in this regard. I am sure the president would be glad to hear from the Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. HILLHOUSE: Would the Honourable Minister give me the address of the president? I understand it is Magistrate McDonald of Portage la Prairie. I just wish to advise the House that I will be writing him. MR.

ARTHUR E. wR IGHT, (Seven Oaks): Madam Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the First Minister. Has the Province of Manitoba received a request from the Government of Canada to accept a conference on health insurance, and if so, can the Minister indicate whether such an invitation will be accepted? · MR. ROBLIN: I have not received such an invitation as yet. MR. PAULLEY: A supplemental question then.

We take it the press were erroneous the other day when they indicated that the Right Honourable Lester Peiltson indicated in the House of Commons that such an invitation was extended to the premier's of the provinces. · MR. ROBLIN: You had better address that question to him. ' MADAM SPEAKER: I would like to draw the attention of the Hous·e to Beauchesne's Fourth Edition Parliamentary Rules of 1958, and it does say'in here that inpu tting a question a member must confine himself to the narrowest limits, and (

e) section states that a question, Page40 :February 25th, 1965 I - • • � I I • • •

41 MADAM SPEAKER, cont'd . . . . . oral or written, must not enquire whether statements made in the newspaper are true. I just bring this to the attention of the members and I hope that they follow that through. MR. SCHREYER: Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. I would ask him if a new chairman has been appointed to head the Committee on Manitoba's Economic Future, and if so, who is he and was it done by Order-in-Council? MR. EV ANS: A chairman has not yet been appointed. MR.

PAULLEY: May I ask a supplemental question, Madam Speaker? Why not? MR. EV ANS: I don •t think that's a proper question to answer. MR.

PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, I think that it is a proper question, if I may just be permitted to make this comment, because we are all very vitally concerned with the future well-being of our province, and I think it is a proper question because of the fact that we have been without a chairman of the said committee for some considerable period of time and the government should be able to answer to this House as to whether or not, or why they have not appointed a chairman to this committee. MR. FROESE: Madam Speaker, I wonder if I could direct a question to the First Minister.

Are copies of the briefs available that were presented to the committees set up to function during the recess, such as the Shared Services Committee, and one or two others? MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, they are not. They are the properties of the committee and will be filed by the committee with its report when its report is returned in the House. At that time all members will have ·a chance to read them. As far as the shared services one is concerned, I think arrangements have been made to file those right now in the Provincial Library. If my honourable friend cares to enquire he may find them there. MR.

SCHREYER: Madam Speaker, a supplementary question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. I would ask him a very narrow and specific question. How long now has our highly vaunted COMEF been headless -- how many months? I repeat, Madam Speaker, how many months has this committee, upon which we base so much of our hopes, been without a head? MADAM SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. MR. PAULLEY: ..... proper question and I think the Minister should at least in dicate that he knows how long the committee has been without a chairman or not, and I would also ask a further supplementary question, if I may.

When does the government intend filling this position? MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I don't think the committee has ever been without a head. When the chairman is not there, or there is no chairman, there is a vice-chairman who fills his functions and the committee carries on. The government will appoint a ehairman when it becomes appropriate to do so. MR. GUTTORMSON: Madam Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Will the residents of the Town of Steep Rock who live on company land be entitled to a tax rebate? MR.

SMELLIE: Madam Speaker, at the present time there has been 110 sub-division of that property, and until there is some method of separating out the individual tax parcels there can be no individual tax rebate.

We have been in correspondence however with the Canada Cement people and have suggested to them that they should have prepared and filed a plan of sub-division of the property so that the individual properties can be described, and when this is done then the individual property owners may apply to the Court of Revision to have their names put on the list as the real owners of property and they will then be eligible for tax rebate. MR. ROBLIN: .... gave the impression that the various submissions made to the Shared Services committee are now in the library.

I am reminded by the Clerk of the House that the committee recommended that they be placed there when they are tabled in the House, which will be before long. MR. MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, a supplementary question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs regarding his statement re Steep Rock. What then will be the situation for places like, say Pine Falls or any other company towns where the properties are owned by the company? February 25th; 1965 · Page 41

42 MR. MOLGAT, eont'd .. . . .. If �heyare subdivided, will the cornp,any b��rece�v,tn,g.then individua1rebate� for each parc�lor,will the people who live iJ?,J�ose hQ!lS�f\ get them? .·· . MR. SMELLIE: In Pirie Fafls --Pin not completely famili:,t� wit)l tli� situation b,ut II1Y understanding there is �hat this is eqmpletely subdivided. a11d thf!;.prop�rtie-s qan, be indi vidually described. I'Il be willing to check up on the matter. and 1na¥:e certain that this .is the case before giving a fuller answer to :zny honourable friend., . . . . . • ' '· ··.. ' •• • ! -: . . •. . . . ·,• Co11Unl1ed pn.next page • Page 42 F�l;Jruary 25th,"· �965 I I -

43 MADAM SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The adjourned debate on the proposed - in:otioli' of the Honourable Member .for Lac du Bonnet and the proposed amendment by the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, and the proposed sub-amendment <lfthe Honourable the Leader of the New Democratic Party. The Honourable the Member for Swan Rivet. MR. JAMES H.

BILTON (Swan River): Madam Speaker, in rising to take parf- in this debate may I extend to you every good wish in the successful carryi:iJ.g out of your most ·arduous task; If past sessions .are any criterion I am sure you will succeed and bring flirther.honour to. your exalted office.

To my friends and colleagues, the 'members for' Lac du Bohnet aniP · Fisher constituencies, I extend my congratulations for- a job well done.·· My honourable f:dend from Lac du Bonnet omitted to mention, Madam Speaker, in coveri:iJ.g the activities' and accom plishments of his area, that a large percentage of the pulpwood processed at Pine Falis origi nates in the Swan River Valley. May I take this opportunity also of extending my- congratula tions in the re-election of my colleague from· River Heights.

ID. the cut and tb:rust o{ the elec' tion campaign he was bloodied and battered but stood up to the 'onslaught to regain his seat in this House, and again I most heartily congratulate him. . · · - In speaking to the message left with us by His Honour the Lieutena.ri.f-Gover.tior, I am heartened by the many and extensive subjects which were covered for attention.

Coming from an area which is primarily agricultural artd for many years has been pouring millions of dol'-' lars into the economy of Manitoba, I am pleased to see that efforts are to be made toward eas ing the problem brought about by the recent fall in wheat'.pricl3s: This 'loss of niillitms of dol lars to the western wheat producers is very serious :irideed, •artd something that each and every legislator throughout Canada must take cognizance of and assist in providiriga remedy: Efforts . towards the further development of fisheries, minerals ahd the forests are men tioned.

This is a continuing effort, Madam Speaker, not only to better condifioliB�for those of this generation but also those yet unborn. Wha:t we do with our resources; 'Madlim: Speaker, will be applauded or condemned by those that follow. I believe this government is st:dving to� ward the former. · Reference has been made to the amendments to The Official Time Act. The efforts·of' this government in the first place were to create uniform time in Manitoba at any given:t!nie·· throughout the year. Many people in my area want no part ofit in any of its aspects, and have spared no effort to tell me so.

Certain communities want to extend the present allotted-periods and probably they will get their wish. This is as it should be. · · _ . I note also, Madam Speaker, with interest that much is ptdmised in -the administration 'of justice, .rehabilitation .camps, juvenile courts, probat ion-officers;- etcetera. ·Can anyone �can anyone in this House conscientiously object to the furtherance of this program'? Feople of my area and further north will,. I feel s1,1re, be pleased with the annduncement that the Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Telephones are to step up their program in the interests of northern residents.

I look for an improvement in the Swan River Valley where there are; m some ln..: stances, eight, ten, twel ve, and I believe fourteen subsCribers on separate lines. We look forward also to the advent of the dial system due for completion this suinmer: Much has been said of a residential scb,ool fdr the deaf. No longer will we have to..depend upon another province to provide these facilities which in many cases has been the cahse of loved ones being separated by many hundreds of miles.' The Honourable Leader of the Opposition hurled a challenge of wide proportions the other day.

There are others more competent than I, I feel sure, who will take care of those accUsa tions. He chose the occasion to accuse the government of wastefulness> extravagance, mis management and being unbusinesslike. Madam Speaker, may I be permitted to reflect for a moment on only part of the govern ment's efforts these past five years or so, efforts that can be repeated m many parls of the .Pr ovince of Manitoba. In: the early 1950s a thirty'-two bed hospital was approved'for SWan River, a hospital woefully short of essential facilities by present day standards..

During the last few years it has been literally bursting at the seams. It has recorded daily peak loads in excess of 100 patients. With the adoption of the medical plan further stresses have been evi dent. This hospital attended to. the bringing into this world of no less than 300 babies during 1964 •. There are no facilities for extended care patients and they;· I am sorry to say, have scattered in the four corners of the province wherever they can be accommodated;· The Willard February 25th, 1965 Page 43

.44 MR. BILTON, cont'd •..... Report recommended an addition to this hospital which was con curred in by this government, the local taxpayers providing twenty per cent of the total cost which covers no less than a two million dollar construction project which I'm happy to say is now underway. Included in this new structure, Madam Speaker, will be twenty beds for ex tended care patients. Does this represent wasteful, extravagant, mismanaged, unbusinesslike government? I can assure you my people don't think so.

During the past few years fully modern high schools at a cost of two million dollars have been completed at Minitonas, Benito, Bowsman, Birch River and Swan River. These struc tures, Madam Speaker, are complete with gymnasium, showers, spacious classrooms, lib raries and other facilities. undreamed of not too many years ago. These facilities, Madam Speaker, are terrifically appreciated. The transport facilities to and from these places of learning span most points throughout the Swan River Valley. Does this represent wasteful, extravagant, . mismanaged and unbusinesslike government?

A few good people banded together and set up a program to accommodate the retarded children in the Valley. Arrangements were made to use a room half days in one of our public schools, a room that had been used to store coal in the basement. The local Lions Club, to their eternal credit, decided to do something about it and pledged themselves to raise $250, 000. 00. Over the months they have received the active support of the general public, the churches, service clubs, the town council and other bodies.

This government, Madam Speaker, matched the effort with a grant of $25, 000 which has gone toward the construction of the residence which js, I am happy again to say, nearing completion. Added to this, Madam Speaker, many of the municipalities of the Valley have shown their intention in the provision of a school for these childr;en as a Centennial project. Does this represent wasteful, extra vagant, mismanaged and unbusinesslike government?

Mention should be made of our Senior Citizens Home, accommodating as it does some 50 pioneers, a model copied many times around this province, to which this Government has contributed and supports on a continuing basis, the individual needs of those requiring help. Again I say, does this represent a wasteful, extravagant, mismanaged and unbusinesslike government? We have our problems in welfare. I am personally acquainted with many tragic cases, persons who for the most part are victims of circumstances.

The work requires a staff of eight or ten workers who are striving valiantlytomeett he everyday problems of administering aid. I am able to. report to you, Madam Speaker, that in my area at least, every effort of the Department of Welfare is being made to alleviate misery and hunger. Does this represent wasteful, extravagant, mismanaged and unbusinesslike government ? In the. taking over of 4, 000. miles of market roads by the province, I believe that a reduction in local taxes can be reflected into the future. These roads, Madam Speaker, are main school bus routes, in my area at le.ast.

May I make one observation with regard to gasoline? In the arel:J. I come from.we are paying 10 cents a gallon more than those in south ern Manitoba. Yes, 52 cents a gallon as opposed to 42 cents a gallon here in the City of Winnipeg. v.e pay a premium in this and in many other ways to live and work in Northern Manitol;>a. This.of course is a transportation expense and nothing whatever to do with taxes. In recent months, Swan River - The Pas Transfer suffered a heavy blow. This is one of our main industries, Madam Speaker, with a large payroU.

They were hauling fuel bytank truck from Regina in competition with the CNR Ra ilway. Overnight the Railway cut their rates almost in half to 19 cents a hundred, putting the transfer company out of business on that run. Every effo�t was made to have the decision reversed or .... ...• The good. offices of the provincial Minister of Trade and Commerce were called in, but all to no avail. The anSwer was the reduction was approyed in ottawa to place the CNR in a competitive position, antici pating the prollosed pipeline installation which may never come.

This being Brotherhood Week, Madam Speaker, possibly the newly appointed Executive Assistants to the members of the Libera,l. Party opposite might take this serious matter in .the Valley's ec onomy under advise-. ment and study and work with us in the north to do f:lOmething about it; . Efforts are being made to better the lot of the Indian. Metis people and the Government has assisted toward the provision of a modest centre or meeting place in Swan River, and I · have high hopes for its future. Page 44 February 25th, 1965 I I I I

45 MR. BILTON, con t'd .•.•.... With these few observations, Madam Speaker, I refuse to accept the outlined accusa tion of the HOnourable Leader of the Opposition and I have a feeling that many Manitobans are of the same mind. Having said these things, I would like to record my support for the con tents of the Speech from the Throne. MR. W. G. MARTIN, (St. Matthews): Madam Speaker, may I, as others have done, offer my felicitations to you and good wishes for the future and hope that for a long time to come you will grace this exalted position to which you have been appointed.

I would also like to thank the mover and seconder of the Resolution in Reply to the Speech from the Throne who gave us a very fascinating story of the life in their constituency and who presented to us something more than an innocuous travel talk but gave us a kaleidoscopic view of what is being done in these important areas of the province. · I count it, Madam Speaker, a privilege to take

part in this debate on the Resolution of the Reply to the Speech from the Throne and I do it for more than one reason. I do it because I am a dutiful and loyal subject of Her Majesty, and I hope the day will never dawn when the institution of the Monarchy will cease to be an integral part of our Assembly proceedings. There are veiled suggestions in certain quarters at certain times --sometimes more than veiled suggestions-- referring to the possibility and the probability of severing the ties that bind us to the Commonwealth. Sometimes these statements· are daring and forthright.

A group of University students a while ago spoke out loud on this question of breaking with the Commonwealth, but I was most of all alarmed by the resolution passed by the Young Liberal Association of Toronto in which they called for the establishment of a Canadian Republic. I believe, Madam Speaker, that they were speaking for a very small group.

I can't think that that is the attitude of the Young Liberals throughout the length and breadth of our province, our country, and I hope that the day will never come when these walls will cease to resound to the strains of the National Anthem sung by the elected representatives of the people in praise of tlE reigning monarch as the sovereign head of the nation and as a prayer that the central role of the Monarch in Canada shall never be replaced. I think of the classical utterance of Sir John A.

Macdonald: "A British subject I was born, a British subject I will die, " and Madam Speaker, that is the crown and glory of our Canadian citizenship. Then occasionally we have undertones of separatist policies, and when these come to the surface and come to our ears, I think it is well for us to remember that two major political parties, Liberals and Conservatives, were ready to set aside their differences and joined in a coalition which resulted in the inauguration of the Charlottetown Conference and paved the way to Confederation. There is a very interesting story told by Sir. John A.

Macdonald, that ten years after Confederation he said of his formidable opponent, the Grit Leader Brown, "The only patriotic thing Brown ever did in his life was when he coalesced with me for the. pmpose of a larger union.lf we now are a Dominion we must not forget that it was owing in great measure to Mr. Brown's momentary patriotism of which , however, he soon repented.

" From time to time in our Legislature bilingualism enters into the debates and speeches, and whenever that occurs, Madam Speaker, I am reminded of the fact that when the founda tions of our Dominion were laid, two races, French and English, sat at the same table and brought the reality, the dream of the Fathers of Confed�ration-- two cultures in one nation; two languages but one nationality; two races but one loyalty; two glorious pasts, one glorious future.

And so, Madam Speaker, let the apostles of separation and disunity say what they will, it is my firm belief that Canada is destined to move forward to a might destiny as a united, free, self-governing nation within the framework of the British Commonwealth. The reading of the Speech from the Throne by Her Majesty's . representative serves to quicken our awareness of our great heritage. The Speech from the Throne is something more though than a symbol of loyalty, something more than a long established tradition.

It is a record of stewardship of the Government and it is a pronouncement of projected policies and anticipated legislation, and the debate which follows is an animated or sometimes lethargic discussion of the contents of the Speech plus a multiplicity of views and opinions and a more or less eloquent display of beefs and bouquets --bouquets praising the Govern ment for past achievements and for its planning for the future, and beefs flaying the February .25th, 1965 Page 45

46 . MR . MARTIN, cont'd ........ Government for failing to live up to the -prorni'ses "and foliecasts as the guardian of the people's rights and as the champion of their·weliare:- WeH• of course, Madam Speaker, all. this if! to be expected, because freedom of .speech is- part and parcel of our democratic way oflife.

May I add this, that whatever politicli.l faith we have, this much we must accept; that no association. of men has been able ,to evolve. a better system to prove full opportunity for the individual •s us.e of talents .and abilities· and to make a worthwhile conthbution to the ·c ommon wealth than: the democratic system of government as we have it in-this :country and fn this< province. But we must not lose sight of one fact; it should be a-trained and educated-demo:.:. cracy that should be entrusted with •shaping the destiny of a people.

The· former Prime Minister of Canada, The Right Honourable' Lord Bennett as he was later, said this oh one occasion, '' If more heads can be counted one way than another, that party for-Which the•larger number of heads has been counted will be respons ible for the government of the country, '' and he pointed out a danger.

"It is·.almost incomprehensible that the vital issues of life or death to' a nation, peace or war; bankruptcy -or solvency, should be determined-by the country by the counting of heads, knowing as we do that the majority, " -� and I think that this was a reli.l overstatement-- , "that the majority are untrained and unskilled in-dealing with the problems of the government, " .and he pleaded eloquently foran educated and informed democracy. Where did.he deliver the speech?

Before an imposing group of yoimg people,· · and I mention· this, Madam Speaker,. because I would like to stress at this time the vli.lue. of organizing our young people into politicli.l groups for the. purpose of training • and equipp:lng them to tackle the problems which will face them as citizens tomorrow.

I know that the Young Liberals and the group among the Socili.l Creditors, I don't know very much of what go·es on there but I can speak for the Young Conservatives and say that a reli.l and intense effort is being put forth to educate and inform the rising generation of the great vitli.l politicli.l issues, and to spur-t hem on to dedicate their responsibilities as well as acc ept their privileges of citizenship in a free land like Canada; And of course in our Young Conservative groups we don•t hesitate to in- form them as to the true meaning of conservatavism, .and we drill this into their minds and into their hearts., the conserving of-li.ll things good and beneficili.l arid the destruction of every thing that se.eks to mar the peace and happiness of mankind.

Madam Speaker, w.e have heard of centennili.l programs that are· being put forward and we would like to compliment the Provincial Secretary on the advance work that· is li.lready being done and is taking shape, and when the time comes these memorials will··be a dramatic portrayli.l of the spirit and faith displayed by those dauntless pioneers whose foresight and courage and enterprise laid the foundations of our nationhood.

But I would like to say this --a nd li.ll- out for the Arts Centre and other memorili.lsthroughout the province-'-'- but the finest memorial which we can raise and the most enduring, more enduring than monuments in stone or marble or bronze, is a generation: of youth who are dedicating their faculties and talents to the uprearing of a better and truer nation than their forbears ever thought of'- - democracy . But democracy is expensive.

Someone says yes, that's what the Speech from the Throne points. out, that it 's expensive, but likewise the Throne Speech points· out that it is a gilt-edged investment, and I doubt whether there is any province in 'Canada that can show a better or more beneficial return for the taxpayers• money, and very many .of those who have 'been sternly criticli.l of the recent taxation put on by the Roblin administration are forced --a nd some of these people that I know so well have had Liberli.l backgrounds-� many of them are forced to admit that the· Roblin administration has given the people gOod and sound and reliable government.

It was very interesting on the day of the opening of our Legislature, in the evening the Leaders of the Opposition parties were.interviewed on television and asked their opinion of the Speech from .the Throne. Well, the Leader of the Liberli.l Opposition didn •t say anything that was in way of condemnation.

He.did refer to good things and indicated that in these good things it was the Liberal party that started the projects on their way, Well if that is so, Madam Speaker, then li.ll that remains is for the Liberli.l Opposition to vote for the government when these, projects come before us as legislation, The New Democratic Party Leader, he didn't suggest a thing that was wrong in the government program. His. attitude was, they didn't go far enough. In other words,.- he adopted an Oliver Twistiart attitude! 11Flease., Sir, Page 46 . February 25th; 1965 - I I I I

47 MR. MARTIN, bont•d ........ I• d like some more". � ty esterday t}).e �e� pem <X:iatt� .. Party Leader, in his speech, started out by flaying the disarD:led :forces seated at hi� right, . the Liberal Opposition, by reminding us that this party lacked in_ political philos.ophy and tliat under· Liberal government Manitoba_ was utterly �isgoverned. Then if y� rem�mbex: �e · turned his guns upon the Conservatives, that when we took office for awhile there was progres sive legislation, "but now, " he says, "they've reached the point whe:J;"e they're a4opting a . stand pat policy.

" . . _ · · . · . · • But Madam Speaker, when you study the Speech fi·om the. Th:rone, which is. a short �ne, has about 28 paragraphs, but the majority of these paragraphs present c�ear evidence that the government is Iiot standing pat, that it is mo�ng forward a�_ a steady and iinpressive teJDp •. What have we got there? I •Massive reallocation of costs ari!l responsibilities designed to al leviate the burden of local taxes in favour of the iocal taxpayer. " Them they cite an instance --a school tax reduction resulting in 64 percent of Manitoba's school' tax bills be�ng cut in ha).f.

Then, relief of local governments in some financial responsibilities in aspects of the road program; economic expansion; providing new jobs for the unemployed of M.anitoba, and als.o providing training that these employable men may be );rained in skilJed 13b0ux:; AgricultUral Department --doubling the crop of agricultural-- they •ve got crop insuranc•e; the further . development of natural resources, of forest and fish and mineral, foJ:' the benefit of the people of the area and I would say for the benefit of all our people; contin)ling expanding t)le policy of urban renewal, slum clearance, humane housing legislation; ne\Y measures .to combat the menacing problem of alcoholism; intense program in beha)fof the mentaliy disordered people; industrial safety measures; improvements in the Workmens Compensation Act ; rehabilitation program for the inmates .of our jails ; a new approach to the juvenile and fam ily-courts pro- · blems; carrying the benefit of hydro and telephone to remote pa:J;"ts of our province; Md .in education, the largest public school appropriation in the hist!Jry of our province; increased grants and bursary assistance to universities. and to affiliattl(f colleges.

Madam Speaker, , there are just a few of the aspects of the program that the government is setting forth in the Throne Speech, and in addition to all this, as we well know, �here are !Dam moth aGhlevements in every sphere of departmental work and activity, but with top priority to those thing!! which concern human betterment. · · It's expensive, democracy ..

It's being carried out at tremendous and ever-increas ing cost; but this is indisputable, that withili the past eight and a half years more money has been expended for the benefit of the citizens, particularly the sickand the aged, the needy �nd the handicapped, than in the lifetime of any former administration, and lam almos� prepil!ed to · go a little further and say, in the combined lifetime 'of all former administrations . One fundamental principle of democracy, Madain Speaker, is that ali men shOuld enjoy equality �f opportunity.

Unfortunately we are not born equal, equal in. wealtp., Iri physical _sta.ture, iTI mental capacity, but this we can say, and it stands to the everlasting credit of the government, by the processes of education we are seeking to minister to those of our citizens v,iho by force of circumstance are the victiins of inequality; and to the limits of our resources to seek to lessen and perhaps remove these hli.ndica.ps where they exist, the social legislation of_ the province is directed to one supreme end, - securing if possible for all citizens the right to a square deal. .- Madam Speaker, I say this government is not standing pat in the great crusade of human betterment.

The Conservative Party is not reactionary, and we are not fascist and we are not socialistic as those terms are usually understood. On the other. hand we are pledged to a • generous policy of social reform . Democracy is expensive. Social legislation a few years ago, why it coUld be counted up in thousands and tons ofthousands of dollars, but now it ,has reached to the heights where we have to t3lk of it in terms Of mi llions and te-ns of millions of dollars. But who is there, Madam Speaker, who would dare to stand up and say we shoUld do less, we should cut di:Jwn, we should curtail?

Madam Speaker, as long as this government is in office it will accept as its boundeD. duty and its majoz: responsibility the extendfug of the hand of help and aid to those who are crowded out of the race oflife py lintoward circum- stances and misf ortune. · · · - · · ,_· ' · If you had walked into these buildings at Christmastime yoU: would have seeri the marble stairway flanked by illuminated Christmas trees, a very very impressive sight, but don't let's February 25th, 1965 Page 47

4 8 _ MR . MARTIN, cont•d ..... ... misunderstand it. The purpose of placing those trees there is not to indicate that the government is developing fairy Christmas trees from which they can pluck unlimited resources for disbursement among the citizens. The funds to carry on this legislation come from one source . Unpopular as it may be, the money must come from taxa tion, and it's the only way to bring to pass continuous and. productive results; so taxation, ' however much we hate it --and who doesn't hate it?- - taxation is the fountainhead from which the streams of social legislation shall flow.

The .amendment to the Resolution says the government has lost the confidence of the people. Madam Speaker, we have in this province a citizenry second to none in its apprecia tion of good government, and we have a government with a proud and enviable record of rendering good service to the citizens by sound measures of progressive legislation, by exercising every possible economy, and by an honest accounting of revenues and expenditures entrusted to them.

It was just yesterday, was it, when the First Minister of this province stood in his place and tabled the book of judgment, the Public Accounts for 1964, and he _ proudly presented it as Exhibit A in a comprehensive and far-reaching record of industrial achievement and economic progress and human betterment. I thank you. MR . FROESE : Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Dufferin, that the debate be adjourned. MR . SHOEMAKER: Madam Speaker, I wonder if.my honourable friend would object to other members speaking at this time? MADAM SPEAKER: The honourable member for Gladstone. MR .

SHOEMAKER: Madam Speaker, I would like to follow the usual practice in this Assembly and congratulate you upon your position in the highest office within the gift of this Assembly; and upon your usual fine appearance here today.

I would like to also congratulate the Mover and the Seconder of the Address in Reply, neither of which apparently are in their seats at the moment, but that being as it may I still would like to say some nice things about them --this would be the time to say some bad things about them, wouldn •t it?- - but I'm going to say some good things about them because I had the pleasure last fall and last summer of sitting with the Honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet on this very debatable committee on false teeth etcetera, etcetera, and we had a most enjoyable time; and a year prior to that I was happy to join with the honourable member for Fisher, is it?

Mr. Moeller -- Fisher yes, Fisher--;---he's there, yes. Well the people put him there, Madam Speaker, and he _and I again had a most enj oyable time, particularly when we went on our motor trip to the west, through Saskatchewan and Alberta; and I would like to congratulate them on their very worth while effort two or three days ago. I would like to congratulate as well our new Deputy Speaker and wish him well, and hope that he has plenty of patience. If he hasn't why it will be bad on the ulcers no doubt.

Now Madam Speaker, I as usual was not very well prepared to speak today, but I was going to suggest to you that somewhere in the Rule Book there is a rule in regard to the reading of speeches, of which you know I am not guilty of. You can tell that by reading Hansard. I don't make speeches for Hansard.· But I note again this year, and I have noted every year since I have been elected to this Assembly, that about 75 percent of the members still read their speeches. I haven 't been able to find the rule but you can find it a lot quicker than I can and no doubt you know the one that I am referring to.

I think it says that a member has to stand in his place with his hat off and make his speech, not read it, uncovered (Inter jection) Well I can recall, Madam Speaker, when my honourable friend the Leader of the NDP had his covered with a toque here two or three years ago --nightcap, yes-- but you get the point, Madam Speaker. I think that this rule should be more strictly adhered to, because the principle of the rule, my guess is, is that who is to know who's reading whose speeches.

I mean someone, I suppose, could be reading the late Winston Churchill's speeches and it would sound awful nice and it would appear nice in Hansard, but who•s to know, who is to know who has written the speech if they are going to continue to read them here, and I think we should adhere to it. Madam Speaker, my honourable friend on my right has suggested that I do my fair amount of reading, but when I read I tell you where it's from. I tell the Assembly that I am reading from the Neepawa Press, the Gladstone Age and so on. Page 48 February 25th, 1965 • - -

/ 49 MR . SHOEMAKER, cont1d .. ..•.• , Now Madam Speaker, I am speaking on the Amendment to the Throne Speech, or the Amendment to the Amendment, and I guess that this would prohil!it me from speaking on the main motion if I run out of time today.

Now we on this side of the House, ;llld I think that includes not only our Party but the New Democratic Party and propably the lone Social Credit member, what we are really attempting to say in this, that the government has wasted money needlessly and we --that is , the Leader of our Opposition-- certainly cited one case on Tuesday last, a concrete example of government waste in the purchase of the "goose preserver• out at Delta Beach. what he said was, he estimated that they had wasted something like a hundred thousand dollars or a hundred and fifty thousand dollars needlessly.

He went on to say that the Financial Post had suggested that since this government took office they had pur chased about 90 million dollars worth of land in the province and if, if this same type of waste was inherent in all of the other deals that were made then there was millions of dollars wasted. That's what he attempted to say. Now, these charges haven't been answered yet and I see by the Tribune or Free Press that my honourable friend the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources says that there is nothing to it at all --he can deal with it in a couple of sentences and a few things like that.

So it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. But these are the charges that we are making here: there was needless waste; we are trying to point it up.

I think, Madam Speaker, that you will remember me saying at the last ses sion of the Legislature, the special one, where they paid us $200. 00 a day you remember --some got more than that but the Press said that it averaged out at about $200. 00 a day, the one we had last August-- I said at that time, and I repeat it now, that it seemed to me that that was a concrete example of government waste, and that brings me around to the Throne Speech, Madam Speaker, because imm ediately after His Honour's greetings and his welcome to us here, the next sentence says, 11 My government states that the principal business cif the ses sion will be to complete the program begun at your last meeting.

" Well, this rather sug gests to me that some kind of a national disaster took place at the last sess ion that prevented us from completing that program, and I don't know what happened but this is the inference here, that the reason for this sess ion is to complete what we started at the last ses sion. Why didn't we finish it then? Why didn't we do it then? Instead of paying us $200. 00 a day for nine days they could have kept us here for eighteen days and then that would only have been $1 00. 00 a day. So I claim that this is government waste.

Now, talking about irresponsibility in government, I would like to refer just at.the moment to the Winnipeg Free Press, Saturday November 14th last, and most of the members opposite will remember that occasion surely, and if they were not there, Madam Speaker, they should have been there, because it was the provincial convention of the Conservative Party; and hanging up in the Marlborough Hotel -- I wasn't there Madam Speaker; I'm not guilty; I wasn't there-- but hanging up in the Marlborough Hotel there was a huge sign that even baffled the Press, and it said, 11Ne xt time let 's get all Manitoba out of the red, 1 1 and the Press thought they were referring to some ladies' red dresses, according to this article.

They didn't even know what they meant. But what they meant --when I say 1'they, 11 what they meant, what the Conservative Party meant, and no doubt some of my honourable friends had something to do with designing this wonderful background, there's no .doubt but what they meant-- they said they would have a whale of a lot better government if they had fifty-seven memb ers instead of-- how many have you got? Thirty-five or thirty-six?

But if they had fifty-seven or maybe, maybe, Madam Speaker, if they would put up with a few NDP members- they don •t say that here, but what they are really concerned about is getting rid of the Red. Yeah! And they would make a lot better government if they had fifty-seven members. Well they couldn't make any worse, I don't· suppose, Madam Speaker, but what I am saying is that this points up how irresponsible they are in this regard to think or even suggest that if they had no opposition it would be a better government. Now surely they really don't believe that, Madam Speaker.

Well Madam Speaker, I' d better get back to the Throne Speech here, although I thought I should point up that as well as charging them with government waste of public funds· and that, that they were also guilty of some irresponsible statements and demonstrated it at their last Convention. February 25th, 1965 Page 49

so MADAM SPE AI\ER: .. _, � . , .. r>rob!l!Jly like to t!lke Q.nde:r; advise:rpe�t the' suggestfon fhat .· you made to m4p earlier,_ . but I wmild l�keto-suggest, too, that one qfthe �les states t):lat we spe8.k to the topic, . and I believe you we r'e speaking to the . su}?-aln�mdm�nt. ' . _.·. . . . . MR._ GUTTqRMSON: Madam Speilker, you allowed the me:tpb�r,for'st. M:atthew!l tq wander all over Ontario: You, didn it_ s�y anything to him .at that time, . _ . ._ . .

MADAM SPE�R: ...... custom of the House, but it was suggest�d by the Honourable Jv.Iem})er spe!lking that we stick to the rules, and trying to follow hi_s. suggestion l would suggest that probably all members stick to the rule that we speak to the sub-an�end� ent. it•s only a suggestion. _ · _ . ._ _. _ . · _ . _ · · · _ .• · ' _ · MR.

SHOEMAkER': Madam Speaker, I will attempt to do that because I think t was rather ...... with you when .I first arose, that speaking on tbi� amendm ent, t):l� sub:.:amend.:_ ment if I stuck to that then I coold go on and make two other !)peeches; that is I could make three inste:i4 of one that would last three tim es 40 minutes and the House would really Wish that I had wandered all over the fir�t time._ and got it over �ith. . . · .

Madam Speaker'; there h;1s been a great deal said in �he Throne Speech, interwoven all the way through it about what the gover.llPl ent is going to do abo).lt giving part of this 22 m il lion dollars back to the people, I refer Madam Speilker to the_ 22 millio�. dollars that the · government-imposed at the last sess ion of the Legislatu�e in the w'a_y of n�w taxes. This tim� they are_going to say, or what they are saying in effect, I' ll tell you what we're goiilgto do . boys-, we 're going to give you .part of that back. We .can•t give it all back but we're going to give part ofit back.

And they go on to say that if your school taxes. exceed $100, if they do, then you will .probably get $50 back ;1bout next Christmas time or somewhere along them. Do you lmow why I say that, Madam Speilker, because la m one of the few people I' ll bet ih this . Assembly that has already paid his 19 65 taxes, and they cost me about $1400. 00. Now you can figure out of that $14 00 what the school taxes are --they are probably about $700. Well they ar.e going to give me back $100. Do you know why, Madam Speaker?- - at least I am ce:rtainly counting on getting back $100.

If I don it I am going to be madder than I am now. i•m going to get back about $100 out of $700 I suppose because I' ve got two parcels, Jive got two parcels and the way I interpret the act if I had 50 parcels I could conceivably get back $2500 -- I hope that that part of it is wrong, but I think I'm right. I think that's what the government intends to do-- (Interjection) and I said before (Interjection) Mada:m Speilker, I wish my honourable friend the Attorney-Gener31 would speak a little louder.

I don'•t know whether I am getting deaf or whether I can •t hear him but --maybe he would prefer to milke a speech later on-- but I said at the last session that I lmew a friend of mine, he is a good friend oLmine, that pre sently has. 41 parcels of land at last count. He has already figured out what he 1s going to get get back based on what you fellows told him, and it's something like $1 200 _ _:that's what he hopes. to get j)ack because he•s got 41 parcels.

I said to my old dear old fi:iend, you know the principle's all wrong don1t you because if you owned Eatons Store or Hudson Bay Store and it was assessed at 10 million you'd oilly get $50 back. He said that isn't the way it works is it? I said, it certaiilly is. Well he said I' m lucky I' ve got 41 parcels then. And you have to agree with him. It's all haywire.

Now about this time .of the year imn;�ediately following the last session, Neepawa Press September 8 last -- 1 am not going to read very far Madam Spe!lker, jJ.l:;t read the headline-- it says: 11 Town to get $6901 1-- in quite large print, "sixfold grant increase on government property. 11 Well Madam Speaker, my girls used to tell me when they were about seven years old when I tried to tell them _how lucky they were they used to say, 11big deal". And I said when I read this, it's .a big deal.

What the government is. doing here is. paying the Town of Neepawa $690 in lieu of taxes on certain government buiiding:; in the town. I had coffee next door to our office, there is a cafe, they immediately --the <;lay after this paper came out or the day it came. out, I sat with one of the councillors and he said look at what ou� new government is doing today. · Lo a�d behold, I said, 11what are they doing this time••. ·S o he showed me this and I immediately asked hiin what does the Town of Neepawa pay the Manitoba H:ydro in a year. What do you think it was, Madam _Speilker?

He said 111 don1t know'' and I. said well as I recall it fr�m the days I sat on Council, we, that is the Town of Neepa;va p;ly'an imnuaiHydro bill of between 10. and 12 thousand dollars. Now apply five percent to that Madam Speakez:, and.you �e a lot quicker than I an1 because of your experience in teaching sch�ol, but' to me it.wo�ks Page 50 • - I • • � I \

. . MR. SHOEMAKER, cont•d ... ........ out to about $600. 00. So tbat in one fell swoop the 51 government are getting back their. $690 --i n one fell swoop. Forgetting all the other .taxes that are applied on all other utilities and everything else, in "one fell swoop tlb.ey are gettilig back all the money they are paying them . So, I repeat agaiD., "it's "a big deal". · · Now I attempted to find out or to figure out roughly what I would pay, because after a11 I like to know what the new taxes mean to me. I suppose most of you have noticed that I quit sm oking. I haven 't had a sm oke for 14 months.

I can't truthfully say that I toresaw this tax coming on smokes . Everybody's got hindsight but darn few of u� have got foresight . .I c�lt say that.

But I can say this: that my hydro bill and my natural gas bill. ,.-ai1d we are fortu nate Madam Speaker in Neepawa they have natural gas, be�ause· as you know it's the cheapest fuel in Canada outside of wood now because there is no tax on that, but my hydro-_: it•s coming Madam Speaker, they say --well I don •t see it in the Throne Speech but it may be there; I haven't got to the bottom of it yet-- but my hydrobill, my natural gas bill :md my telephone bill, per month, is roughly $60 for the three of them _..:for the three ofthem-- 60 times 12 - $720. Five percent of that is how much?

Around $40 isn •t it? $36 somebody says. All right, put that figure down. Sharpen up your pencils. Now in addition to that, I travel roughly 24, ooo miles a year and you may say how do you know that -- I've got a car that.•s twp years old and it's got 49, 000 miles on it-- and if I am optimistic .enough to thiilk that. I can get 20 miles to the gallon, and I know I can •t, but if I am optimistic enough to think that I can, then how much is my new gas tax, my new three cent gas tax --how much is that going to cost me annually. (How much) --$72, --$72 and (Interjection) $36.

Madam Speaker the Minister of Public Utilities says there is something wrong with my arithmetic. Is my arithmetic wrong? , (Interjection) Well the taxes are. Well I make it $72 --48, OOO miles, 20 miles on the gallon, 3 cents, $72 (Interjection) In two years .... $72 and $36 .. and the tax on my public utilities --that is double what I am going to get back in my $50 right there on three items. Now I know that there 1s nobody in the province-- well there may be the odd one but: surely there isn 1t anybody in this assembly that is gullible enough to think that we are going to get back more than we pay.

I don't think they are gullible enough for that l:lut._,. . . Then Madam Speaker, for those that like to indulge in what the Premier refers to as luxuries, sm oking and the odd little drink now and again --those are luxuries in the words of the Premier-- well you can figure it out for yourself, figUre out your aimual consumption and apply your tax and you can figure that out and add 1t on to the other, but it certainly all adds up. This 11 No Puff for Duff" appeared in a lot of papers , Madam Speaker, and do you !Wow where it appeared ? In the Neepawa Press 11 No Puff for Duff" it says.

I want to just read part ofit. (Interjection) I didn't intend to Madam Speaker, but I have been prompted to doso because I have just come ac ross the third paragraph here that will be interesting to the members op posite . But the title of it is "No Puff for Duff, " Neepawa Press, December 1, 19 64. "It galls me a little" --inc identally Madam Speaker this is by Ambrose Hills, that•s his pen name. And incidentally too, he has purchased 140 acres of land within the town· limits of Neepawa.

So we are glad to have him there. 11 Duff Roblin, 11 I � quoting now, ''Duff Roblin, Manitoba Premier had had quite a lot of puffs in the press of Canada because of the _progress Manitoba has been making but he is not getting any puffs these days from smokers like me. There may be a place on the continent where cigarettes cost more than they do in Manitoba but I don't know where it is , 11 he says --he hasn•t Jound it yet. Then he goes on to say: 1.1It galls me a little to have to criticize Duff Roblin.

I have been a strong supporter of his and I have admired his determination to encourage industrial expansion here in this keystone · province. I fear however that he and some of his ministers have stl:trted to believe thftt they personally are going to drive this province at a 10 0 mile an hOur clip to utopia. They can't do it. Mr. Roblin and his ministers ought to hold their horses a bit.

They ought to start being Conservatives in spirit as well as in name. 11 And it goes on but I won't tire you any more with that one. · . · . . · Now Madam Speaker, the next --the Throne Speech, second page, "l aminform ed•i the Lieutenant-Governor says, 11 that 196 4 was a year of record, breaking economic activity in , Manitoba". Well not so accordiJlg to what the Premier said the other day --'not. s"o. He. sald Manitoba runs for jobs, Manitoba runs for jobs and stands still Roblin says. The Thron.e Speech says that we have been surging ahead like all get out. February 25th, 196_5 Page 51·

52 MR.· SHOEMAKER, cont•d ....... . Earlier this afternoon the' Honourable, Leader of the NDP in a supplem entary question --a question was asked by-·- was it the Honourable Member for Elmwood, "has the govern ment appointed, named chairman of this new COMEF Board. " The answer was no, they haven't done it, and then they presse d them : I have before me. a clipping, and I neglected to say which paper it was from, but I believe it was the Free Press, about a month ago, headed: "Leatherdale named to M. E.· c.

Board". 11 The government sponsored Manitoba Economic Consultive Board has been brought up to full strength, 11 it says, of ten members. But then it goes on to say at the bottom -- and I guess this is my friend the Minister of Industry and Commerce speaking, "We hope to make an appointment in the near future ", --he•s referring to the head of it-- says Industry Minister Gurney Evans. 11 But it's an important post and we•re not going to be rushed until we are good and ready to appoint the right man, " Mr.

Evans said, Well, surely, Madam Speaker, there are a lot of good Conservatives left in the province yet that are just dying to get that job, and it is an important post and should be filled. I lmow they tried --borrowing my Leader•s name, they tried to slough it off today-- when the Leader of NDP pressed for a question on this they tried to slough it off. I say that they shouldn't do it. They should get on with the job.

In an earlier paper, and once again I neglected to pU:t the date on it, but it certainly is from the editorial page of the Free Press, and despite what this pr opaganda sheet says and the Throne Speech says about being a most successful rec ord breaking year, the press says that it•s a "· .•..... appraisal", and they're referring to what the Premier said about run ning for jobs . It says 11 but Manitobans may now question in light of the Premier's pessim istic statement the pe rformance of his government's Department of Industry".

This is a depart- . ment that has a sizeable staff and spends· a substantial amount of money each year to bring new industry to Manitoba, and even they think that they have an accounting to make to us . Another bit of news that may be encouraging to some but means very little to me, Madam Speaker, is contained in a propaganda sheet dated January 15 th last, which I just happen to have before me, headed "Tourists See Manitoba in Record Numbers".

One of my good Liberal friends brought this in to me and thought that it was a wonderful story, and it says : 11 0ne and a half million visitors spent 45 million dollars in Mariitoba in 196 411• Once again I would ask my honourable friends opposite to sharpen up their pencils and figure out how much per visitor that amounts to. One and a half million visitors spend 45 million dol lars� I think it's thirty bucks. I think it's $30. 00. Well, how far can you go in Manitoba now at the price of gas, accommodation and food and eve rything else, on $30, 00.

You couldn't come in and spend the night in Manitoba, uriless you are staying with friends. Maybe that's what they're ail doing. And if they are they're not spendirig any money in Manitoba. And my guess is, my guess is, and I think my honourable friend, Madam Speaker, from Brandon made some suggestion that 11 it1s a lot better than it used to be, 11 or something like that, didn't you, Reg? My guess is, Madam Spellker, and I would welcome him or my honour able friend the Minister of Industry and Commerce to show us the amount that was spent per visitor 20 years ago. I'll bet you it wasn 't much less than $30. 00.

You can•t spend less than $30 ,0 0 uriless you just come in and turn around and drive out again. I don't lmow. This isn't encouraging to me at all. Another thing, Madam Speaker, and there 's lots of them that are not very encouraging, is that we have quite a number of fairly thriving industries in Neepawa, in spite of my honour able friends. One of them is well, two of them --we have two canvas works there-- and they do a sizeable amount of business , an amazing amount of business for the size of their opera tion and the size of our town.

One of the problems that they are presently faced with --this one, the Neepawa Canvas Works in particular-- is tha� they were offered quite a large contract in Calgary, or quite a large order for goods to be delivered in Calgary. They couldn•t meet the price because of freight rates and freight rate regulations.

See we have no express , we have no passe nger tr ains in and out of Neepawa now, we have no fast express in and out of Neepawa now, most of our goods go in and out by truck, and the cost of getting the manufactured articles to Calgary, via Winnipeg, because that's what we had to do --pay the freight from Neepawa into Winnipeg, then from Winnipeg out to Calgary. Now I think my honourable friend, the Minister of Industry and Commerce should look into this. Surely to goodness it Page, 52,_ February 25th, 1965 • -

53 MR. SHOEMAKER, contrd ........ isn •t necessary to bring articles that are manufactured in Neepawa all the way into Winnipeg to start them off on the right track to the West Coast; This seems to me to be a complete waste of time, money and energy, and I would ask that some thing be done here . Madam Speaker, I want to comm end the government on one thing before I forget . Iwant to comm end them for hiring a Special Assistant in the Department of Education --and I refer to my very good friend Bobbie Bend. Now Bobbie Bend has spoken at several annual Chamber of Commerce meetings this year, this year.

I listened to him on one occasion, He spoke in Neepawa. He was our guest speaker at our annual meeting about a month ago in Neepawa, And just everybody that was present there --and I think there were about 200-- were more than impressed with what he had to say. And I wonder if my honourable friend the Minister of Education knows what he did say, I' m going to ask him . Did he hear him out at St. James ? Didn't hear him there . It•s a good constituency.

Not as good as Neepawa, But, he certainly knows the theme of what he is saying all over the provi nce, surely, and it is this, that we must have people to do all kinds of jobs in Manitoba, and he tells a couple of very, very touching stories in order to point out what he is attempting to say, He claims that it is abso. lutely unnecessary for a barber, for instance --this is one he uses quite frequently-- to have Grade XII Algebra or Grade XII French and so on.

He says that if a barber can cut hair and change a dollar bill, then he corrects him self and says he doesn't need to be able to do that even, let him barber. But he said they are setting the standards so high , th1e entrance standards so high at MIT that it prohibits a lot of these people from getting. in there for this special kind of training, And from the Neepawa Press again, January 29th, 1965, in reporting what he had to say, ther e' s an

article there. 11Some educational ideas are nonsense, " says Bend, My question, Madam Speaker, is, and will be when we reach the Depar tment of Edu cation estimates, what are they doing about it? I hope that they're doing som,ething to imple ment some of the ideas that are put forward by my friend, and certainly knowledgeable gentleman, Bobbie Bend. Madam Speaker, we --coming out of the Conser vative Convention that was held last November the 18 th, --my honourable frien ds, some of them by the look on their face don•t, you would think that they were not present and that I was-- I would like to refer to an

article in the Winnipeg Free Press, November the 18 th, 1964 -- November 14th, 1964, "Charges that second grade gasoline is sold as No. 1 11 is the heading of the article, Winnipeg Free Press, November 14th, 19 64. "Manitoba service station owners are selling second grade gasoline to motorists paying top prices for first class gas, a Conservative constituency official charged on Friday. 11 I don •t know ..... . MADAM SPEAKER: I would like to remi nd the honourable member that he has four minutes left to deliver his speech. MR. SH OEMAKER: Thank you very much. 11W.

H. 11 -- I' m continuing with this article, quoting again, ••w. H. McGregor , President of the Springfield Conser vative Association said that he has run across several cases where service stations are dumping Number 2 gas in their Number 1 tanks, and he made the accusation during a Pro vincial Conservative Conven tion discussion chaired by, who else but my honourable friend , the Minister of Agricultur e, George Hutton, "i t says. Now, nobody has answered this, or at least if they have I haven't seen it in the press.

And, Madam Speaker, it's bad enough to pay 17 cents a gallon on No. l gas without paying for No. 1 and getting No. 2 gas, if this is going on all over Manitoba, as this

article says --i n service stations all over Mani toba, Now, I want somebody to deny that or answer it. Frankly, I have thought by the perform ance of my car at times that this was going on. I never attempted to dig into it, but I certainly have thought it because, Madam Speaker, sometimes my car will ping a lot more on certain gas than it will on others, and I suspect that what this Conservative fellow has said is right, and, if it is, let them do some thing about it, that's what I' d say.

Now, Madam Speaker, I' m sorry that I haven't covered nearly all of what I had intended to do-- (lnterjection) -- No, Madam Speaker, I will be able to talk tomorrow or the next day because there is still the sub-amendment and I will carry on tomorro w and the next day if necessary. Thank you. February 25th, 19 65 Page 53

54 MR. FROESE : Madam Speaker, I move, seco nded by the Honourable Member for Fisher that the debate be adjourned . Madam Speaker pres ented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. EV ANS: Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seco nded by the Honourable the Attorney General that the House do now adjourn. Madam Speaker pres ented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 2: 30 Friday afternoon. Page 54 February 25th, 1965. I • I - I I •

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	27-4-4
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Volume / chapter	27th 4th hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
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