VO L . 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. FRIDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1982 No. 53

December 3, 1982 The House met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape No. 3041 SD - 1 Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: SO~E HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Hear, hear. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing more important- indeed more precious- than one's integrity or honesty. Every person jealously guards his or her right to be accepted by their fellow citizens as a truthful and sincere individual. Without that,one is held as being of no account and is held in distrust and in contempt. A person's reputation, Mr.

Speaker, is a precious jewel and this is recognized and protected by society, Without i~ he is indeed an empty shell. This is perhaps even more important for the holder of the office of Premier or Chief Minister of a government in any democratically elected society. In a very real sense,the reputation of the Premier mirrors or reflects the' repute of the society he represents.

This being so 1 it is with deep regret that I comment upon the patent and obvious attempt by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation toassailand tarnish the reputation of the Premier of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in the On Camera programme which was broadcast last night. In that programme I very much regret to note an attempt was made to brand . Premier Peckford as a liar and an untruthful person not to be trusted.

The basis of this programme was an attempt to show the Premier had not spoken the truth when he indicated he had contacted one of the highest officials of Bowaters to urge postponement of the decision to close No. 7 paper machine at its plant in Corner Brook. 6407

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3041 so - 2 MR . MARSHALL : The programme based its allegations upon the fact that the Premier had alleged he had S!'Oken to the Chairman of the Board of Bowatars International . 'rhe programme \vas obviously prepared to brand this statement as untruthful based upon a statement of Lord Errol of Hale stating he had not met with Premier Peckford. In actual fact, Mr . Speaker, the situation was as follows: At a dinner at the office of the High Commissioner in London on Friday week, the Premier was seated alongside Dr .

Lenton, the Managing Director of Bowaters Coporation Limited at London, which is the grandparent of all Bowater companies . Throughout this dinner,the Premier pressed the Corner Brook situation and in particular requested time to investigate the possibility of formulating a proposal or counter-proposal . Subsequently , other calls were made to Dr . Lenton by the Premier . The Premier was under the impression that Dr . Lenton was Chairman of the Board of Directors of Bowaters International . In fact , he was the Manaainq Director . MR . NEARY : Ha ! MR. SIM!-1S : Why do you not listen boy .

MR . ~~SHALL : Perhaps the hon . gentleman might like to add pampers to his silly little shir~. 6408

December 3, 1982 SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR . SPEAKER (Russell) MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Tape 3042 Oh, oh! Order, please! On Camera. NM - l Shameful! Watergate all over again. Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: On Camera, Mr. Speaker, seized upon this not only to conclude the Premier had not contacted the chairman of the board, but indeed implied he had not been in­ terested enough to contact Bowaters on the Corner Brook situation and in fact had been untruthful.

This allegation was even more serious when one considers it was made in the context of the Premier's discharge of his duty in a profoundly grave and serious situation affecting the Province. Now this was done without affording the Premier, Mr. Speaker, the basic 1ordinary right to respond. Had it done so it would have found he had contacted Dr. Lenton, the chief operating officer. Those responsible for the programme did this without having first informed me, when I appeared for the programme, before it commenced that they had contacted Lord Errol of Hale and asked me simply if there might be some confusion.

It would appear they were not interested, Mr. Speaker, they were not interested if there was any legitimate confusion> only in branding the Premier as being untruthful. At the end of the programme the interviewer stated to me, when I was protesting the way she was conducting the interview, that time had run out. Yet, Mr. Speaker, you will note they had time to broadcast Lord Errol's denial, but they did not have the time,nor the apparent interest,to relay the Premier's version. 6 !+ 0 g

December 3, 1982 Tape 3042 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: I trust the press,which fully exercises its undoubted right to criticize and express opinions,will recognize the rights of others to question the way it reports. This I do now in the case of CBC's programme On Camera which "'as televised last night. When they received the information from what they styled as "sources in Bowaters", surely it must have been apparent that there might have been a simple mistake to which there might have been a simple answer. It must also have been evident that it was only the Premier himself who could have supplied that answer.

This being so, I ask the CBC why the On Camera staff did not contact the Premier before the programme was aired? Surely the gravity of the implications which On Camera was obviously intent on conveying dictated this. Had they done so,they would have obtained the perfectly plausible answer. The interviewer could perhaps have found a few more seconds on her programme and have had the chance to press her button on her tape recorder with the same relish with which she gave a recording of Lord Errol's voice - with the explanation of the Premier.

This would have shown that the Premier had merely placed the wrong title upon the Bowater's official to whom he was talking. She might even have liked to have observed that in most corporate structures the Managing Director 6410

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3043 ah-1 MR.MARSHALL : is th e Chief Operational Of ficer and carries more weight and responsibility than the chairman of the board. Instead of doing this though, Mr.Speaker, those responsible for On Camera chose not be be interested in whether there was an explanation but seemed content to imply that the Premier had fabricated his story that he had contacted Bowaters. And this is the only implication , Mr.Speaker, and I feel that all fair minded people will join me in asking the question, Why? When CBC finally presented the Premier's version it was at 11:30 last night.

One might ask why they waited until then. Is it not a basic right of any person accused to at least have the chance of an immediate response? After broadcasting the Premier's version of the situation on the late night news,the CBC hoped to dispose of the situation by concluding that the Premier had thought he was talking to the Chairman of the Board but in actual fact he was talking to another representative of the Board.

Mr.Speaker, the government of this Province, the colleagues of the Premier, and I feel the fair thinking people of Newfoundland and Labrador are not going to be content to allow it to be dismissed.or made light of in this manner. The reputation of the chief representative of the people has been unjustly assailed and no words of amelioration can address it except an unequivocal apology by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSHALL : I call upon the CBC to make the apology in the name of fairness and decency.

If they are unprepared so to do,I call upon the C.R.T.C. to investigate their operations in Newfoundland and to 6 411

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3043 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: determine the reasons for their presentment of the Premier before the public in the manner they did without affording him the basic right of reply or explanation when the programme was aired. To those who may wish to diminish the gravity of the situation by alleging that the freedom of the press is being attacked, I say with every right, Mr. Speaker, there is a duty and the press is not immune -from this basic relationship. It must be recognized that this can never be used to unjustly assail the reputations of persons in the society in which it operates.

Otherwise the very freedom which it so often champions is an empty allusion. One indignant caller to CBC last night told me that the response received was we must report the news as we see it." I say they have a sacred duty to report the news as it is. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSHALL: An apology or explanation is due as to why CBC felt that news 'as they see it' last night did not afford the basic right of response to the person whose reputation it assailed in such a base and unfounded manner. SOME HON .MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.SPEAKER {Russell): The hon.

Leader of the Opposition has five minutes to respond. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER: MR.NEARY: How many minutes, Sir? Five minutes. I will be responding outside the House · too, Mr.Speaker, to this because this is a very, very, frightening statement and if anybody should apologize to the people of this Province,especially the people in Corner Brook, it should be the hon. gentleman who misled this House, Mr.Speaker. 6412

December 3, 1982 Tape 3044 EC - 1 Smm HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER [Russell) : Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition,or any hon. mernber,is not allowed to say that any hon. member misled this House,and I would ask the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) to with­ draw that remark. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that remark. But we have telegrams, and vle have statements in Hansard made by the hon. gentleman in this House, one that was made by the hon. gentleman when he was condemning me, trying to focus attention on me.

Here is what the hon. gentleman said: "I can refer them to the response with the head of Bowaters International made to the Premier.this morning l.ffi. WARREN: Now! MR. NEARY: ·- \vhen the Premier called him in a last ditch effort to have the anpouncement postponed. The chairman's response was words to this effect: 'What do you mean? The decision has already been made public.' Now, Mr. Speaker, that was untrue. The Premier had not even spoken to the chairman of the Bowater International Corporation.

He was sitting having dinner with some gentleman who happened to be associated with Bowaters - he did not know his title. wewere led to believe by the hon. gentleman in this House that before the Premier went to Europe on this ban on the seal products that he had arranged meetings, he had prior arrangements with Bowaters officials to discuss the Bowaters situation in Corner Brook and now we discover that is not true, not·an ounce of truth in it. G 1-t 1 3

December 3, 1982 Tape 3044 EC - 2 MR . NEARY : So , .t-tr . Speaker , the privileges of this House have been breached . But I will deal with that , Mr . Speaker , and I want to put the hon . ge ntleman on the opposite side under notice that I am not sitting on my rights as far as th at item is concerned . I have not completed my research yet, ttr . Speaker, and I am giving notice now that I am not sitting on my rights to raise that as a matter of privilege in this 1:ouse . \-Jhat we have seen today is a cowardly, 10\v , snea<y, rotten attack on the ne ,·Js medi a of this Province . r-tr .

Speaker, I tvatched that programme la st night , and wha t this House should be doing , in stead of condemning the CBC, is we should be passing a re solution in thi s Rouse congratulating the CBC and thanking God - the people of Newfoundland should have thanked God last night that ,.,e had the CBC or the truth would have been suppress ed. SOME HON . MEMBERS : liear, hear ! MR . NEJ.\RY : ttr . Speaker , this has been the second or third time in the last year that the media have been attacked by the gover nment , espe cially the CBC .

I think it is the second time they have raked the CBC over the coals , unjustifiably so, just because they got caught in an embarrassing situation . Mr . Speaker, it is shameful, tvhat we have heard in this Rou se today is shameful . 1-le did not hear about things like this happening even under the Hitler regime in Germany . Even IIi tler did not do that . Mr . Speaker , these are Hitlerite, Mussolini tactics . 6 4 1'~

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3045 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEAR'l : The CBC were merely doing their job and the other media in this Province were doing their job as investigative journalists , investigative reporters . In the process of carrying out their job and their responsibility as the eyes and ears of the people of this Province , they caught the Premier in a lie - or they caught somebody in a lie . Somebody lied, Mr . Speaker . MR . ~'1M. MARSR.zcr.L ; Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : President of the Council . MR . MARSHALL : Order, please! The bon . the Mr .

Speaker , it is entirely out of order for anyone to impute that a member of this House has told a lie in the cour se of his duties and I ask the ho n. the gentleman be asked to withdraw that . ~1R. SP&~ER: Order, please! The point of order raised by the President of the Council (Mr . Wm . Marshall) is \vell taken and I think it is certa inly unfair for any hon . member to my right or to my left to impute that another hon . member of this House lied . I would like for the bon . the Leader of the Opposition (Mr . S. Neary) to withdra w that . MR . NEARY : Nell, I withdraw it , Mr .

Speaker , but somebody lied and \ole intend to find out who it was. We have a Watergate type of situation on our hands here, Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : Order , please ! When I recognized the hon . the Leader of the Opposition, I informed him that he had five minutes to respond to the f-1inisterial Statement . His five minutes has expired . 6415

December 3, 1982 MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. Tape No. 3045 ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Speaker. MJ - 2 The hon. the Leader of the MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, in connection with this shambles, with th ,is mess, with this lie, would the hon. - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WM. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: President of the Council. Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Order, please! The hon. the MR. MARSHALL: Your Honour has already made a ruling with respect to that. If the hon. gentleman wants to question in the House he can certainly question, but he does it within the rules of the House. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! Again I have to remind the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. S. Neary) that he is not permitted to impugn that another member of this House lied. If this line of questioning continues I shall have to rule the hon. the member out of order. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not accuse anybody of lying. I said, 'In connection with this lie.' I am not accusing anybody of lying. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Same thing! Same thing! MR. NEARY: The whole situation itself is a lie and I do not know who is responsible for it, Mr. Speaker. MR. L. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.

SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: That is not true. It is not true? No! But it is true. Oh, oh! Order, please! Now, let me ask the Government 6l+ 1 6

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3045 MJ - 3 MR. S. NEARY : House Leader (Hr. t-lm. Marshall), who did the Premier meet ? !Vas there prior arrangements made with anybody in Bowaters before the Premier left this Province to hold meetings in London in connection with the layoffs and the shut down of the Bowaters mill in Corner Brook? If prior arrangements were made ,w ould the hon . gentleman care to table the documentation in this House? MR . l-JM . MARSHALL : Mr . Speaker . MR . SP£AKER (Ru ssell) : The hon . the President of the Council . MR. MARSHALL : ~tr . Speaker, as I indicated, the Premier met with Dr .

Lenton,who is the Managing Dir ector of Bowaters Corporation of London . He met with Or . Le nton at a dinner that had been - now over in Britain they call it di nner in the middle of the day - MR . NEARY : Ha, ha , ha! ~1R . MARSHALL : Ha , ha, ha ! SOME BON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh ! MR . MARSHALL : Mr . Speaker, at a dinner tendered by the High Commissioner in London, Mrs . Wadds , that on the right or left hand side of the Premier "'a s Dr . Le nton , \ofho \·las the 64 17

December 3, 1982 Tape 3046 PK - 1 MR. MARSHALL: representative of Bowaters at the time, the major person having conduct of the affairs of Bowaters. He was the person the Premier talked with, Mr. Speaker, he was the person that the Premier phoned. And, Mr.

Speaker, he was also the person who on Wednesday of this week informed the Premier, when the Premier was making representations to him in a last-ditch effort to have the Bowaters decision not made public, he was the person who indicated to the Prer.lier that it had already been made public,and of course it was made public through the instrumentation of the hon. member there opposite who did the work of Bowaters for them. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition . A supplementary, ~1r. Speaker.

The hon. gentleman will not get away with that remark when I get a chance to raise my point of privilege in this House. The hon. gentleman now is trying to weasel his way out of it, It was not the Chairman of the Bowaters Corporation as he led this House and the people of this Province to believe. Now let me ask the hon. gentleman this.

The main part of the question that I put to the hon. gentleman was about whether or not there had been prior arrangements made to meet with Bowater officials in Europe before the Premier left this Province, or was it just a pure accident that the Premier happened to be invited by _the Canadian High Commissioner in London to a dinner that had nothing to do with Bowaters, it had to do with a reception- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: - Mr.

Speaker, it had to do with a reception for the Canadian delegation that was in Europe on the seal ban, a dinner was held for the Canadian delegation who were over there on the seal fishery. Is this the truth of the matter? Are these the facts,that this dinner was being 641B

December 3, 1982 Tape 3046 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: held for the Canadian delegation and the Premier just happened to be sitting down by a Bowaters official and incidentally brought up the Bowaters situation in Corner Brook? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, just like last Friday when I carne back to the House and informed the House that the Premier had met with the representatives of Bowaters who the Premier had thought was the Chairman of the Board and I advised the House accordingly and the hon. gentleman got up and said, Ah, ha!

They got together because of the questions he asked a few minutes earlier in the morning MR. NEARY: Yes, that is right. MR. MARSHALL: I say that obviously the Premier and the Chairman of the Board did not get together and meet by chance as if they were at MacDonald's or they were at Whimpy's or they were going out to the A and W or somewhere like that. They obviously met a dinner at the High Commissioner's in London. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, one does not wander in to the London High Commissioner and sit around the table and meet people by way of chance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in other words what happened was that the Canadian High Commissioner was having a dinner for the Canadian delegation over on the seal fishery from Canada, and they were having a few beers together - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! - Mr. Speaker - Oh, oh! 6419

December 3, 1982 Tape 3046 PK - 3. MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please ! The hon . Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) is entering the realm of debate and I would ask him to be more direct with his question . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, let me ask the hon. gentleman is it a fact , is this what happened,that they \vere having a few beers and having a chat over a roast of pheasant and champagne and the matter of Bowaters just happened to com. e up? 6420

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3047 so - l MR. NEAHY: Is that the truth of the matter? Is that actually what happened? Why does not the hon. gentleman admit that is what happened,that the Bowater's thing was merely incidential - MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. MARSHALL: And tell the truth. - and tell the truth? The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, that does not warrant a question. The hon. gentleman is trying to subterfuge now and cloud the whole issue.

The issue that is here and the issue that is plain and clear for everyone to see is like yesterday, unfortunately, on the On Camera programme the reputation of the Premier was assailed without giving the Premier the basic right of responding at the particular time. And that is the matter of real concern. I realize that maybe the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) does not care too much about the reputations of anyone,least of all the reputation of the Premier of this Province but, Mr. Speaker, the government does and I feel most fair minded people in this Province do as well. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.

NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: of the Opposition. Hear, hear. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Leader MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what does the hon. gentleman have to say about this telegram that he rushed into the House with the other day and read for the House? And I will quote from the telegram: "The matter of Corner Brook is being dealt with at the highest level both by the ministers in Newfoundland and myself in meeting I have held in London". What meetings? Could the hon. gentleman tell us - this is a telegram from the Premier dated November 29th, 1982 -what meetings?

What meeting is the Premier talking about? Is he merely referring to this dinner where he just happened to 6421

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3047 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: sit down - it could have been the janitor, Mr. Speaker, it could have been anybody? When he got off the plane at Heathrow Airport 1the first person he met was associated with Bowaters, did he chat about the Bowaters' situation then? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER {Russell) : MR. NEARY: Question! Question! Order, please! How did he know, he could have been talking to' the janitor in Canada House in London? What meetings?

Let the hon. gentleman get up man~fashion and tell this House what meetings the Premier had andwhoarranged the meetings, tell the House the truth for a change? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I tell the House the truth all the time. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: What I am complaining about is that On Camera did not pursue their investigative reporting to the extent that they ought to where they would have had the truth. Now, Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. gentleman knows the answer to that question.

I have given the answer to that question. There was a meeting of the Premier with Dr. Lenton at the British High Commissioner's. There were calls to Dr. Lenton that have already been recounted . There were meetings from the point of view of meetings of ministers down in South Carolina when the Premier was in contact with them with respect to that. There had been meetings with the government here by way of telephone with the Premier, The Premier has been on top of the situation at all times. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: of the Opposition. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Leader 6422

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3047 SD - 3 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, could the hon. gentleman provide even the tiniest shred of evidence for this House that meetings were arranged by the Premier before he left this Province or indeed after he went to London on this seal expedition? Could thP ~on. gentleman provide the House with one shred of evidence? Because if the hon. gentleman cannot, he knows that the administration is in trouble and somebody did not 6423

December 3, 1982 Tape 3048 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: tell the truth. So would the hon. gentleman provide that little shred of evidence? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, you know,that is ridiculous. I have already given my answer to the hon. gentleman. I mean the hon. gentleman's questioning is reflective of their attire here this morning. The only thing that is missing, Mr. Speaker, are the short pants or maybe the Pampers. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman can try to distract from the real issue all he wants, Mr. Spea~er. Now let me ask the hon. gentleman another question. In view of the facts that have come to light in the last twenty­ four hours in connection with the government dereliction of duty in connection with the Bowaters situation, would the hon. gentleman now tell the House if he intends to apologize to the people of Corner Brook, and the people of this Province, for the way that they have been misled in this Province in the last two or three days?

Is the hon. gentleman going to apologize for misleading statements that he made, for providing wrong facts to the House, and for misleading the people of this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: There have been no misleading facts presented to this House or to the people of the Province, Mr. Speaker. The apology which is due is from the hon. gentleman there opposite SOME HON. MEMBERS: )lo way. MR. MARSHALL: -who was not prepared last Friday to come over and ask me as to the situation that I would have confirmed to him. Instead, Mr. Speaker, I am sure the people 6424

December 3, 1982 Tape 3048 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: of Corner Brook, you know, are pretty annoyed with the hon. gentleman that he chose to ·do Bowaters work. But despite the hon. gentleman's indiscretion and what he did, Mr.

Speaker, that is not going to daunt this government from using everything it possibly can in taking every possible effort, which it is doing, to see what it can do to alleviate and mitigate that very unfortunate situation in Bowaters, as well as we have pressing concerns with respect to Burin, we have pressing concerns all over Newfoundland as a result of the fragility of the economy of the Province of Newfoundland. And nothing that the bon. gentleman is going to say or do in this House, or outside, Mr. Speaker, is going to detract us from this aim and desire. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR.

NEARY: Hear, hear! The bon. Leader of the Opposition . Mr. Speaker, could the hon. gentleman tell the House why the Premier had to wait to get an invitation from the Canadian High Commissioner to attend a dinner at Canada House? Why did the Premier not arrange meetings with Bowaters and meet them in their office, or meet them in the Premier's hotel? Why did he have to wait for an invitiation from a Canadian diplomat in London who was just merely trying to be courteo.us and show a little hospitality to the Canadian delegation that was over the seal hunt ban?

Could the hon. gentleman tell us why the Premier could not have gone to Bowaters offices, or invited the Bowaters officials to come to his hotel room or they could have met in some other office in London? Why did the Premier not do that? 6425

De cembe r 3, 1982 Tape 3048 NM - 3 MR . SPEAKER (Russell} : The hon . Presi dent of the Counci l. MR . ~1ARSHALL : Mr . Speaker , I do not know where the Premier met with the off icia ls of Bowaters . The fact of the matter {s he net with officials of Bowaters . Re met them at the Canadia n Embassy . I say to the hon . gentl eman that the Canadian High Commissioner 's is not like MacDonald 's, or A & W, or Whimpy 's that p·eople just 6426 or what have you ,

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3049 ah-1 MR.MARSIIALL: wander in off the street and get their meals,so obviously the Premier knew he was attending a function of the Canadian High Commissioner in London and at that meeting he met with a high officer of Bowaters. I do not see the significance of the hon. gentleman's question. I mean,the main thing is that the Premier did meet with the highest chief operational officer of Bowaters. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): MR.NEARY: Mr.Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. It is very significant and very important, Mr.Speaker.

Is .the han. gentleman aware that on November 26th in this House the hon. gentleman made the following statement, is he aware of this, that 'the Premier was meeting with the Chairman of Bowaters organization, theworld-wideorganization'this morning in London. NOw was that true? The hon. gentleman did not meet with the Chairman of Bowaters organization on any morning in London. He met around lunch time,the hon. gentleman told us,for dinner. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.NEARY: And, Mr.

Speaker, is it not a fact, does the hon. gentleman have the courage to stand in this House man-fashion and tell the peOple of this Province that what happened was that the Premier was invited to this luncheon and just bumped into the Bowaters official who happened to be an invited guest. Is this in actual fact what happened? MR.SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR.MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, when it is 10:30 in Newfoundland it is 10:00 in Nova 6L} 2 7

December 3,1982 Tape No . 3049 ah-2 MR.t-1ARSHALL : Scotia , it is 9:00 in Ontario . When you go in that direction you get more time down the line,so wh en I said in the mor ning that the Premier was meeting this morning , this morning was th~s morning, but this morning ~as this afternoon in other plac es. SO~E HON .MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! MR .MARSHALL : That might be hard for the hon . gentleman to understand but , you know, if the bon . gentleman wants to pur sue this line of questioning that is fine. All I can say is that the Premier met \vith Dr .

Lenton The matter that is of grave concern to the government and I think all fair minded people of this Province today is that unfortunately On Camera for one reason or another decided to give the unfounded impression that the Premier had fabricated the story which he gave to them \vithout doing him - SOME HON .MEMBERS : Oh, oh ! MR .SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please ! MR .MARSHALL : - the courtesy of having called hi .m up and asked 1 where they would have got the most simplest explanation that would have satisfied everybody , ~ . Speaker , except the hon . the Leader of the Opposition . 6428

December 3, 1982 MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Opposition. MR. NEABY: Tape 3050 EC - 1 The hon. the Leader of the Hr. Speaker, the On Camera programme last night was a magnificent and superb job of professional journalism and the hon. gentleman should feel ashamed of himself, Mr. Speaker, for trying to cover up - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! I would ask the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to direct a question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is the han. the Government House Leader (Mr.

Marshall) aware that unless this matter is cleared up, is the han. gentleman aware that unless they can put documentation on the table of this House that is just even a shred of evidence,that the government are going to be under a dark cloud for a long time to come and will never be trusted, and their credibility and their believability will be severely battered unless the hon. gentleman is prepared to lay some documentation on the table of this House to prove - MR. TOBIN: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Ask the question, boy. Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, I am asking the han. gentleman a question. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! I would request hon. members to my left to let the han. the Leader of the Opposition be heard in silence, and I would request the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to refrain from debating and making a speech, and ask a question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what I am asking the hon. gentleman is if the han. gentleman is prepared 6429

December 3 1 1982 Tape 3050 EC - 2 MR.

NEARY : in the interests of the administration ever being believed or trusted again in this Province, is the han . gentleman prepared to bring into this House - and we do not have to close the House today, it is up to the han. gentleman; we are prepared to wait for a fe\o~ days - bring into this House some documentation to prove, some facts to prove, not just rhetoric, not just words, as the hon . gentleman just issued in his statement to try to smear the esc and undermine the credibility of the people who did that programme , i~ the ho n. gentleman prepared to produce the evidence, the documentation , the facts for this House?

Otherwise, Mr . Speaker, the government are going to be under a dark cloud and will never be believed again in this Province . MR . MARSHALL: t-tr . SPeaker . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . the President of the Council . MR . MARSHALL : The press could not see the han . gentleman . When he was asking the question, he was almo st lau ghing . NR • NE.l\.RY : Is that so! MR. MARSHALL : Yes, he was , really, a big smile on his face and he \"as laughing. ]tf L RIDEOOT : Yes , it is all El joke , ~'till no co ncer n for the people of Corner Brook . MR .

MARSHALL: PerhaPs we should give them short pants and a playpen out here in the middle of the House, it would be much more in character . SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh ! MR. SPEAKER : Order, please ! MR. MARSHALL : But, r1r. Speaker, if the han . gentleman wants any veri£ication, I suggest that he ask 6430

... December 3, 1982 Tape 3050 EC - 3 MR . MARSHALL : pe ople to~hom I know he t.,rill believe , unless he wants to assail theM as well , no less personages than the hon . Mr . DeBane and ttr. kompkey and Mrs . Wadds, you know, they were there . r mean, if he does not believe us, he can get verifica­ tion from th.em and perhaps he could tell us whether he t·;ould believe them . I tell the hon . gentlemen , we certainly are prepared to . t-1..:R . NEARY : Hr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . the Leader of the Opposition . MR. NEARY : Mr .

Speaker, in vie t.,. of the fact that we have on the public record - and I have two Hansards here in front of me and I have a telegram from the Premier in reply to a telegram that I sent the Premier - in view of the fact that the re cord now has to be 6431

December 3, 1982 Tape 3051 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: set straight there is a breach of privilege of this House that I will be dealing with later, does the hon. gentleman intend now to apologize to the House to set the record straight for the misleading statements that are in Hansard, two copies of Hansard that I have in front of me and a telegram that the hon. gentleman read in this House? Is the hon. gentleman prepared to apologize to the House for these gross and misleading statements that the hon. gentleman made on two or three occasions in connection with the Premier's meetings with Bowaters? MR.

TOBIN: Withdraw misled the House. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! The Chair feels that the hon. Leader of the Opposition is really making an accusation that another hon. member has misled this House. I am sure the hon. Leader of the Opposition is aware that is not a proper thing to do. Would the hon. gentleman care to withdraw that? MR. NEARY: Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, again I have to come back to the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall). MR. TOBIN: Rephrase it. MR.

NEARY: No, I am not going to rephrase that question, I will deal with that under the privileges of the House. But let us come back, let us get the scenario straight aga-in. MR. TOBIN: Question! MR. NEARY: The Premier of this Province left, went up to Ottawa and was briefed on the trip they were going to make to Europe in connection with the seal ban. 6 1~ 3?.

December 3, 1982 Tape 3051 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Then they arrived in Europe. Now would the hon. gentleman tell the House ~ the Premier knew on November 18 that Bowaters were going to lay off and shut down their mill for eight weeks and all the other disasterous things that were going to happen to Bowaters - now when the Premier left this Province, did he merely hope to bump into a Bowater official in Heathrow Airport - it could have been the janitor or anybody in Heathrow Airport - or did he pre-arrange, before he left this Province, meetings with Bowaters?

Now would the hon. gentleman inform the House of that, answer that question truthfully and honestly? And if he did, would the hon. gentleman care to lay documentation on the table of this House? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I _am not going to allow the hon. member to attempt to becloud the gravity of this particular situation in what is involved in it by attempting to state that, you know, the House was misled. In the statement today I indicated quite clearly that when the Premier was talking with Dr. Lenton he was under the impression that Dr.

Lenton was the Chief Executive Officer of Bowaters. It turns out that Dr. Lenton was the Managing Director, who is really the Chief operations officer of Bowaters. So the hon. gentleman is not going to becloud the issue. The issue that is straight, four flush before the House today and before the people is the fact that the First Minister of this Province was in effect accused of fabricating a story which he gave concerning a very grave - 6433

December 3, 1982 Tape 3051 PK - 3 SOME HON . MEMBERS : True! True! Hear, hear! MR. ~~RSHALL: - matter affecting the welfare of the people of this Province. And this was done in the name of - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MR. f.1ARSHALL: - investigative reporting '"it hout affording the Premier the opportunity of calling him out and directly asking if there was any explanations . ~rrl the explanation was simple , the simple explanation that I had given him in the statement ; I have given in the Question Period and I have give n in the response to this question here now . MR .

SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman referred to the fabrication of the story. Is it not true, 6434

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3052 MJ - l MR. S. NEARY: is the hon. gentleman not aware that the hon. gentleman,who is the acting Premier or Deputy Premier or whatever you want to call him, speaking for the government was providing the interviewer with facts about the Premier's meetings with Bowaters,and in the process of doing that that the hon. gentleman misled the interviewer - isthat not what happened?- and did not tell the truth? Now, maybe it was not the hon. gentleman's fault, maybe the hon. gentleman - MR. T. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! MR.

NEARY: - was given the wrong information by the Premier. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman cannot continuously accuse people of lying. MR. NEARY: Yes! Yes! MR. HICKEY: Yes. Sure, yes, You know all about lying, boy. MR. NEARY: That is not a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Now, as a result of that programme last night, is the hon. gentleman considering resigning for allowing himself to be manipulated and used in the way that he was used?

Is the hon. gentleman considering giving up his position as acting Premier because he can no longer trust the man who gave him the information? The hon. gentleman will never again be able to trust the Premier and will never know whether he is getting factual information or whether it 6435

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3052 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: is fiction or a figment of the Premier's imagination. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Is the hon. gentleman considering resigning and apologizing to the CBC and to this House and to the people of this Province? MR. WM. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL : Mr. Speaker, I can say with respect tothe interviewer herself, I did not mislead the interviewer.

As a matter of fact, I really feel that the interviewer, who brought up, if you will, cold turkey to me that they allege that sources say that they never met with an official, but I think she used the word, 'Chief Executive Officer' or 'Managing Director' - MR. T. RIDEOOT: That is exactly what she said . MR. MARSHALL: - because we have a tape and it will bear this out. But the point of the matter is that was presented to me on the programme without even beforehand indicating anything about it.

If you have a statement like that I think that one might have said, 'You know, we have heard this and the Premier has said that, so there must be some mistake or confusion. Is there some response?' They were not interested in that. They were interested in bringing it out. So that is the first thing. Now, as to resigning because of trusting the hon. the Premier, Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to be associated with the hon. the Premier. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: The Premier of this Province has established a government of integrity and honesty - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 6iJ1 0··: " •I ·.,!

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3052 M,J - 3 MR. WM. MARSHALL: - which everybody recognizes. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker - and this is an opinion I am expressing - I think certain people in the area that I referred to this morning do not particularly think that this should be so and they are putting themselves in the place of the Opposition and they making imputations and implications which are not there,and that is the very reason why, Mr. Speaker, that I think that they acted in this way and the very reason why 6lf 3 7

December 3, 1982 Tape 3053 NM- 1 MR. MARSHALL: as well that they owe an apology. If there is anything that this government is doing wrong , it is fine, it is all right to investigate it, bring it out publicly. But when things are done like' that and you assail unfoundedly a reputation, the fact of the matter is it is abominable, it is without any excuse whatsoever and it requires from decent people a response that I hope we will get-an apology. In the meantime,I can assure the hon. House, and the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary), that I am very proud to serve with the Premier who has brought honesty" and integrity to Newfoundland and established a government that can manage the affairs in very, very difficult and trying times, not made any the easier by the type of questioning and the type of conduct of a person who is supposed to be responsible like the Leader of the Opposition as he indicated last Friday. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. So much, Mr. Speaker, for honest and open goveFnment in this Province. Now, Mr.

Speaker, is tpe hon. gentleman aware - I was just listening to the what the hon. gentleman said about the title, he lays a lot of emphasis on the title of the person in Bowaters that the Premier just happened to be passing the caviar to at this dinner - is the hon. gentleman aware that he made this statement? The hon. gentleman who just took his seat, is he aware that he made this statement to the House? He said when the Premier called him - no, "Half an hour ago i can refer them to the response which the head of Bowaters International made." Is the hon. 6438

December 3, 1982 MR . NEARY: this statement? MR . BARRETT : Tape 3053 NM - 2 gentleman a\.;are that he made where is the question? MR . NEARY: Mr . Speaker, if \ole could keep the lapdog from St . Jonn's West (Mr. Barrett) quiet over there for a few moments . Mr . Speaker, is the hon . member aware that he made this statement - MR. BARRETT : You do not know what a head of an organization acts like . SOME RON . MEMBERS: MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY : Hear, hear ! Order , please!

Order, please ! -·~a I think the hon. gentleman there opposite might be interested to know that ,at the very time {.;hen I tv as speaking to the Premier, the Premier was meeting vli th the Chairman of Bowaters ." And is the hon . gentleman aware that he made this statement to the House on November 26th ., ''over there meeting with the Chairman of Bowaters and he is very much concerned with affairs , and that is not to say one way or another, I am not going to comment any further ." That is three statements, plus the telegram .

And is he also a\vare, on the next page, that the hon. gentleman made this statement, "He happens to be talking to the Chairman of Bm1aters. Also, this House might like to know he is talking this afternoon to the heads of certain oil companies ." Novr, Mr. Speaker, having made all these statements to the House, and having read the Premier's telegram in reply to a telegram that I sent the Premier - and I have to ask the hon . gentleman if he is aware of what is in 6439

December 3, 1982 Tape 3053 NM - 3 MR. NEARY: this telegram, "The matter of corner Brook has been dealt v.•ith at the highest level both by my ministers in Newfoundland and by myself in meetings I have held in London" - now having made all these statements,does not the hon. gentleman feel that the honourable and decent and manly thing to do, unless you are a mou se, unless you are less than a mouse , Mr . Speaker, is it not the honourable and decent - MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please ! The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) has made a rather lengthy speeeb in the Question Period . 6L~ 4 0

December 3, 1982 Tape No.3054 . so - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : ifhe does not ask a question directly I will not permit him to continue. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY : Is it not a decent thing for the hon. gentleman to do- and we will deal with thenremier when he comes back to the House - to turn in his badge, to admit that he misled the House and misled the people of this Province and do the hon. thing and go down to the Lieutenant-Governor and pass in his resignation? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman is quite well aware that he referred to the Chairman of Bowaters You notice how the hon. member skirted away from the quote ? He n~ad the quote and said,' 'The head of Bowaters International; he pushed that aside and then he went over, you know, to 'Chairman'. I am well aware, Mr. Speaker, that I referred to the Chairman of Bowaters. I gave an explanation for that, a perfectly plausible one, to the House today. I would that, Mr. Sneaker, On Camera had accorded the same courtesy to the Premier and you would not hav~ t.his particular situation today. So, Mr.

Speaker, the Premier of this Province was speaking, yes, to the head of Bowaters International at that period of time. The head of Bowaters International is the Chief Operational Officer,who is the general manager. That is the fact whether the hon. gentleman, you know, wishes to accept it or not. I cannot make him accept it but that is the situation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. LUSH: Hear, hear. Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms). 6441

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3054 SD - 2 MR. LUSH: I wonder if the minister can indicate whether he has yet received a copy of c:li_s report by tlle Newfoundland and Labrador Youth Advisory Council relating to the social and psychological correlates of youth unemployment in Newfoundland and Labrador? So the question is whether he has received this report, whether he has read it and inwardly digested the contents of this report? MR. SPEAKER : (Russell): Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. Minister of Culture, Mr. Speaker, yes, I have received the report.

I received it on Wednesday, some 200 pages ,and we have not yet had an opportunity to digest it. I have had a briefing from the Chairman of the Council, Mr. Daley, and I would like to take the opportunity to commend the Youth Advisory Council for the tremendous job they have done on this particular report. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Hear, hear. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. member If the minister, Mr.

Speaker, had just done a very casual purusal of this document, he realizes that there are some pretty stark statistics in this document, some pretty eye-opening statistics. So in view of that I wonder if the minister could indicate - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. LUSH: - what action he contemplates taking, what action the government contemplate taking in order to come to grips with the pretty stark statistics, with the revealing statistics, Sir, and I might say, surprising statistics revealed by this report? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. 6442

December 3,. 1982 Tape No. 3054 so - 3 MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, it is my intention to have the report analysed by officials of my department. I <ll. so in tend 6 L~ I+ 3

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3055 ah-1 MR. SIMMS: to have arrangeMents ~ade for the Youth Advisory Council to meet with my colleague, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) next week to have a discussion on this. I will also be taking the analysis of that report to my colleagues in Cabinet for further discussion and seek further avenues to address the problems as outlined in that particular survey and that particular report.

I should also point out that the activities undertaken in this particular regard are in really two partsbecause the Youth Advisory Council themselves will be sending out fhis report to the their regional councils throughout the Province and asking them to submit recommendations and solutions and observations, and we will be dealing with the Youth Advisory Council on a regular basis and in fact will encourage them to pursue the work that they are doing.

And I should point out as well that the government is very pleased with what they have done and it is for that reason , of course, that we in the first place provided the operating funds for the Youth Advisory Council to undertake such issues as this to try to determine the priority concerns of the youth of this Province so that they can be addressed by the government of this Province, SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR.SPEAKER (Russell) : Hear, hear! Order, please! for the Question Period has expired. ORDERS OF THE DAY The time MR.MARSHALL: Motion No. 2 Bill No. 74 .

But I wonder if the hon. gentlemen would permit as well,that is the Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions to the imposition of tax on insurance premiums,that when the 61+ 4 4

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3055 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: committee is constituted perhaps we couln at the same time run through committee the bil~that are there on the Order Paper· Thank you. On motion, that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : DR.COLLINS: Order, please! Bill No. 74. The hon. the Minister of Finance. Mr .·:hairiT'an, I am struck by the garb of the members opposite. I wonder if I could make a requesti I would love to have one of those as a Christmas present.

I wonder if they have one of those beautiful blue shirts that I could have for Christmas? MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I will gladly let the hon. gentleman have one. As a matter of fact, I brought one along for the hon. gentleman. And let me describe now this car.tpaign - MR.CHAIRMAN: Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition is vTell aware that exhibits are not permitted in the House. MR.MARSHALL: But the hon. Leader of the Opposition has been here for twenty years, Mr.Chairman.

MR.NEARY: I have an envelope - I am going to send this over to the hon. gentleman- but I have an envelope addressed to the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins). These T-shirts, you tear off the 6114 -5

December 3, 1982 Tape 3056 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: sleeve and it says, 'I protest the 12 per cent sales t~x.' The sleeve is off this one and I am going to give it to the hon. gentleman as a Christmas present and I am going to send the sleeve over to the hon. gentleman as the first official protest using this novel idea of taking a sleeve off a T-shirt; and you can give the hon. gentleman his T--shirt. There is a note inside for the hon. gentleman, and I think it is my colleague's sleeve. I hope the hon. gentleman Hill wear it. He will not feel very proud of it, Mr. Chairman.

I am sure the hon. gentleman will not feel very proud of it. I hope that he Hill wear it because this is a fad that is likely to take off in this Province. The hon. gentle­ man is likely to get a lot of torn shirts, sleeves off shirts, like this. He is likely to get old collars off shirts and old sleeves off shirts with 'I protest the 12 per cent tax.' And I challenge the hon. gentleman now to go out and put it on and come into the House and wear it. Now, Mr.

Chairman, this is a novel idea that has been undertaken by a gentleman I met for the first time yesterday, a gentleman by the name of Jackson, who has his own company - he is president, vice-president and janitor of the company, he operates it out of his own house. The gentleman is a landed immigrant in this Province, he is a renowned entertainer, a very enterprising gentleman who believes in the private enterprise system, and I am sure that the hon. gentleman is going to do well with these sweat shirts. He is going to do extremely well.

There will be a big demand for these shirts because people will want to get their - 6 L~ 4 6

December 3, 1982 Tape 3056 EC - 2 MR . TULK: 'Steve' , \.,hat are we going to do uith this? Do we send this over? NR . NEARY: Yes, hon . gentlemen should send their torn off sleeves over to the Minister of Finance (Dr . Collins) \.,.ith 'I protest the 12 per cent sales tax' on th~ . This is a novel idea , Mr . Chairman,and I am sure that the hon . - SOME It ON • MEHBERS : MR . NEARY: silence please? MR. CHAIR!-tAN (Aylward) : MR . NEARY : Oh , oh! Mr . Chairman , could I have Order , please ! Order, please ! It is a novel idea and it is going to start to snowball and steamroll in this Province and I would think that the Minister of Finance (Dr .Collins) is going to be S\.,.amped and 6447

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3057 PK -1 MR. NEARY: beseiged \vi tb dirty shirts and dirty sleeves and discarded nylons and old neckties. People should, instead of marching on Confederation Building like I heard they were going to do, instead of marching on Confederation Building or sending petitions in they should send their old socks that are half worn out and I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, if they are going to send them to the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) they should not be washed. I \vOuld suggest that they send them in holes and all into the Minister of Finance. MR. TOBIN: paid for the T-shirts. MR.

TULK: anything. MR. NEARY: Show us your receipts \V'here you We do not have to show you But, Mr. Chairman. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh 1 oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I \vonder if it is possible ~o keep the lapdog for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) quiet over there? MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : MR. TOBIN: Burin? MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN : MR. NEARY: quiet? MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. NEARY: Order, please! Did you ever see a lapdog from The lackey from Burin. Order, please! Is it possible to keep the lapdog Order, please! The coattail member, is it possible to k~ep him quiet, Mr. Chairman? But anyway, Mr.

Chairman, I am not going to belabour the point. The fact of the matter is - MR. YOUNG: (Inaudible) all right. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, could you keep that other lapdog quiet, another coattail rider. 6448

December 3, 1982 Tape 3057 PK - 2 MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! Order! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I hope that the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) will wear it and I hope that this gentleman, this free enterprise private entrepreneur will do well in his endeavour. I do not know what the price of the shirts are, but I can tell the Minister of Finance that he has a vendor's licence and will collect the retail sales tax. MR. TULK: $10.07 tax. MR.

NEARY: And the hon. gentleman might generate a little bit of revenue through this great promotion, this great idea by this gentleman who has now become a Canadian and proud to become a Canadian, this landed immigrant~ Now, Mr. Chairman, one other matter that I want to refer to before I take my seat, when I get another ten minutes I want to deal with that dastardly st"atement that was made by the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) this morning, that mischievous statement, I will deal with that in my next ten minutes, his attack on the CBC and on the media of this Province.

I want to deal with a statement that was made by the hon. Jean Chretien last evening. Now, Mr. Chairman, one of the Premier's favourite excuses for - not negotiating the offshore agreement is that he does not think that he wants to give away our future. Well it is time, Mr. Chairman, that the Premier of this Province opened his eyes; the future is here now. We heard an example of that this morning from the Youth Commission Report on unemployment. The children of the men who have no hope in Burin , they are our future, Mr. Chairman. The children of the miners in Labrador West who have no hope, they are our future.

The children of 6 L~ 4 9

December 3, 1982 Tape 3057 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: men who have no hope in Buchans, they too are our future, Mr. Chairman. And the children who have no hope in Corner Brook,they are also our future, Mr. Chairman. The future is here. And the Premier should stop bleeding from every pore. 6450

December 3, 19 82 Tap e 30 58 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: The future, Mr. Chairman, now needs the offshore oil and gas. And the Premier is refusing to give it to the people of this Province. Mr. Chairman, if we had a cure for cancer, would you wait until all the copyright documents were signed before you used it? Well, Mr. Chairman, you can compare that kind of situation to what we see happening in this Province now. This Province now has an economic cancer and the Premier of this Province is withholding the cure.

The cure is to negotiate an offshore agreement and carry out the mandate that this administration was given on April 6th. La~t evening, Mr. Chretien extended again the hand of friendship. He practically said publicly that the federal government is prepared to alter their position, review their position, on two items that are barring a negotiated agreement - one, revenue sharing, and the other management or control of the resource. Mr. Chretien was practically on his knees. I was tempted to call him this morning and say, "Look, come on down and spend a couple of days in St.

John's and while you are here go up and knock on the Premier's door and see if you can get him in a room to negotiate an agreement on the offshore. Mr. Chairman, the offer is there. Why is the Premier being so stubborn and refusing to negotiate? Well, Mr. Chairman, after what we hearq yesterday and today, and the day before in this hon. House, I would suspect that the believability and the credibility of this administration has been so severely battered that we cannot believe the Premier anymore when he says, "I do not want to negotiate because we might have to give something away." 6451

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3059 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: I think that the people who say that the Premier is playing politics with the offshore and is waiting for the next federal election to use this in the federal campaign, I would think that these people are in the majority, these people are right. These people are right, Mr. Chairman. That is the real reason the Premier of this Province will not agree to sit down and negotiate with Mr. Chretien. They are afraid that Mr. Chretien with his charm might be able to sway them around to signing an agreement. DR. J.

COLLINS: He is a man who does not speak out of both sides of his mouth. MR. NEARY: Oh, Mr. Chairman. DR . COLLINS: He said that himself. MR. NEARY: I knows he says it,but he must be hurt when he hears that statement made. He must feel a little bit bad about it when he hears a statement like that made. Mr. Chairman, how could the hon. gentleman stoop so low? DR. COLLINS: MR. NEARY: individual. HR. B. TULK: He is a charming fellow. Yes, he is a very charming Just think about the charm of the President of the Council (Mr. Wm. Marshall). MR. NEARY: Yes, Mr. Chairman, here is the problem.

You see,therein lies the problem. ''It is the hon. gentleman~as he keeps saying to us, 'It is the hon. gentleman there opposite.' It is the hon. gentleman there opposite, I believe who is the stumbling block, who is the road block in the way of getting these negotiations going. The hon. gentleman has tremendous power and sway in the Cabinet and he is using his influence over the Premier and he is carrying out his spite and revenge and his anti-Canadian and his anti- 6452

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3059 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: Confederate campaign by using and manipulating the Premier. And I am not sure in this CBC fiasco and this Bowaters fiasco who is manipulating whom I always thought the hon. gentleman was a truthfull gentleman . I have heard it said that he is honest and he is truthful , but can we ever believe another word he says, Mr. Chairman? Can we ever believe another word the Premier says? MR. WM. MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman, a point of order. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : A point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The least I care about, Mr.

Chairman, is condemnation from the hon. gentleman because I regard that to be the exact opposite,commendation. But the rules of the House are the rules of the House. I could not care one wit what the hon. says,but the rules of the House do not allow oneto state that a member of the House is not truthful. the Premier. MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN: I happen to be a member and so is Mr. Chairman. Order, please! To that point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: That is not what I said. That is not a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

I did not accuse the hon. gentleman of being untruthful but I did ask a question: How can we eyer again believe the hon. gentleman or how can we believe the Premier~ Now, that is fair ball, Mr. Chairman. MR. W. CALLAN: No,it is not . MR. NEARY: Oh, and that is what it is. I would say there is no point of order, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: To that point of order, I was reading over the Order Paper at the time it was mentioned 6453

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3059 MJ - 3 MR . CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : and I did not get the exact phrase , minutes. I will consult Hansard and rule on it in a fe\v MR . S . NEARY' : Thank you, ~tr. Chairman. So, ~tr. Chairman, I do not know . what else the federal government or Mr. Chretien can do . Now, I can say this without contradiction,and I can say it with the backing o£ my caucus, that we are not happy on this side of the House with the management clause as it presently exists . I think I have stated that already outside of this House, I have stated it loud and clear, that the management of the resource clause has to be changed. But .if you look at the provincial 6454

... December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3060 so - 1 MR. NEARY: proposal and the federal proposal there is room for common ground. I would like to see the management of the resource clause changed to allow two federal appointees and two political appointees to elect a Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. CALLAN: Order, please! The hon. gentleman's time has elapsed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The hon. member for Bellevue. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to make a few additional comments on this bill, Bill No. 74, "An Act To Amend The Insurance Premiums Tax Act".

One of the questions that I must ask, Hr.Chairman, is why was it necessary to impose this particular tax and, of course, to raise the retail sales tax by an additional one per cent? There is no question about it, Mr. Chairman, that this Province is undoubtedly­ if there was ever any question about it there is none now - that this Province and the people of this Province are the most highly taxed people in all of Canada. And thir. i.·~ just another exam~lc,and the retail sales tax, Mr. Chairman, is just another example.

But when you think of the regressive school tax authorities and the way they bring poor people into courts and force them to pay a school tax 1 expecially, Mr. Chairman, people who have their families raised, who already paid the price when their children were going to school, they were paying for the~r education all the way through and now you have men and women fifty and sixty years of age who are still compelled to pay the very regressive school tax. They have to pay it even though they paid for their own children's education now they have to continue to pay for the education of other people's children. Mr.

Chairman, the question I would like to put to the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) is 6455

December 3, 198 2 Tape NO. 3060 so - 2 l-1R . CALLAN : why do we have to bring in these additional taxes? \11hy did not the l'>1inister of Finance (Dr . Collins) use a little bit more imagination? For e:<ample , there are people in this Province who have been saying for a while now that gambling in this Province should be taxed. Obviously there will be some people who will speak against that. vlho will say, you know, how dare you tax our church bingo or our service club bingo and so on. But that is not necessarily, t1r . Chairman, the kind of gambling that I am talking about. 6456

December 3, 1982 Tape 3061 NM- 1 MR . CALLAN : Number one , we know that in the very near future the Minister of Justice (~1r. Ottenheimer) tells us that gambling will be legalized , and will be monitored and that is long overdue . DR . COLLINS : It will not be legalized. Z.1R . CALLAN: Pardon? DR. COLLINS: It will not be legalized because it is actually a Criminal Code ·offence . MR . CALLAN: Well actually the government is being very hypocrical about it now. They are turning a ,, blind eye to it . These Nevada tickets, Mr .

Chairman , which are sold out of practically every retail outlet, any store can sell them , you know, even if there was a tax on these alone imagine how much money that government would take in on the sale of these Nevada tickets alone. Because they are sold all over the Province , in every retail outlet . DR . COLLINS: It is something that was looked at, to be quite honest with you , but you see you could not do it because really it is an illegal act . MR . CALLAN : Well, that is what I am saying . \vell,why do you not stop being hypocritical?

Legislation is not even necessa ry,! understand; legislation is not even necessary , it can be done by Cabinet , an Order in Council can legalize or make it illegal , whatever the government decides to do, with the various gambling th at ·is going on around the Province , whether it be Bingo in the Lion's Club or whatever . 6457

December 3, 1982 Tape 3061 NM - 2 MR. CALLAN: I think, Mr. Chairman, given a choice,I think the taxpayers of this Province, if they were given a choice, let the sales tax remain as it was but tax gambling, given a choice I am sure that the majority of people in this Province would say, "Do the other thing. We cannot afford to pay 12 per cent." Mr. Chairman, a few days ago I talked to two town councils in the district of Bellevue, two town councils. One town council, Mr. Chairman, as a result of the measures brought in, in consu.ltation naturally with the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs.

Newhook), and one of the town councils in order to balance their budget now this year, this fiscal year corning up, will have to increase their tax by 90 per cent. MR. WINDSOR: then. MR. CALLAN: They cannot be paying very much now Mr. Chairman, these good people who work for nothing, unlike the councillors in Paradise, these good people who work for nothing, go to council meetings week after week and so on, and care about their town and work voluntarily, these good people, Mr. Chairman, are going to resign. Because it will be they who will be blamed when the tax is imposed.

It will not be the Minister of Municipal Affairs, it will not be the government of this Province, it will be the town councillors who will be blamed when these taxes are forced to be increased. That was one town council in my district, And another town council, Mr. Chairman, they just resigned. 6 L~ 5 B

December 3, 1982 Tape 3062 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: I venture to guess, Mr. Chairman, I venture to say that before the next municipal elections roll around in three years time that 90 per cent of the councillors who were elected last year around this Province in the 310 municipali­ ties - I would say 90 per cent of them will have brand new faces, because the ones \vho were elected will be resigning one at a time, en masse and so on over various issues, as the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs.

Newhook) tightens the belt and says to these town councils, 'I am sorry, I cannot give you this,' and 'I cannot give you that.' I talked last week, Mr. Chairman, about the town council in Sunnyside and how they were given their water and sewer and then it was taken away again. The same thing happened in my own home town. Imagine the Premier, Mr.

Chairman, during the by-election - I do not mind the Minister of Municipal Affairs as much, she is a nice lady - but imagine the Premier having the gall during the Bellevue by-election and again last Spring, having the gall to walk into the town council office, a beautiful building in Norman's Cove, with his hands in his pockets, 'How are you getting on, boys?' - the way he gets on, you know, because he is a Newfie, that sort of thing.

But anyway, imagine him having the gall to walk into a beautiful building, a municipal building that was built totally out of federal money, as most of the town council buildings around this Province are; they were built through Canada Works or LIP, as it was called a few years back. Beautiful fire halls, beautiful town council chambers all around the Province like the one that we have in Norman's Cove. Imagine the Premier 6459

Decembe~ 3, 1982 Tape 306:! EC - 2 MR. CALLAN : having the gall to go in there when water and sewer \vas approved for that to1m in 1975 and was taken away again that same year after the election · on September 16, 1975 ! Before the election it was approved, after the election, ,.,.hich was the first time that I got elected, on Septenber 16, 1975, a rronth or so after the election the \-later and sewer was taken away again.

And, on a list of priorities, the town of Norman's Cove, which has a popu ­ lation of about 1, 200 people, you kno,._., on a list of priorities, I would say the civil servants dmm in the Department of Municipal Affairs would have Norman's Cove well up to\olards the top, but 1.;hen it goes to Cabinet, it soon ends up d01m towards the bottom. So imagine the Premier having the gall to walk into that building 1-1hich was built by federal tax money after 1-1hat he, as a member of the Moores Cabinet and, of course, as a former ltinister of Municipal Affairs did, to have the gall to go into the building at all. MR .

CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order , plcasa! elapsed . NR. CALLAN : next year, Mr. Chairman . SOME HON . MEMBERS : MR. TULK : MR . CHAIR."1AN: MR. TULK : I '"as saying yesterday, The hon . member's time has Perhaps I l·lill get back to it Hear, hear! ~lr . Chairman . The hon . the member for Fogo . Mr. Chairman, this bill, as 6460

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3063 ah-1 MR.TULK: again points out a very good principle in this Province and the principle is , of course, as I said yesterday,that Tory times are hard times. And now, Mr. Chairman, it is not very hard to see after what we saw happen with Bowaters recently, the latest episode being this morning, it is not very difficult to see why it is necessary, why this government believes it is necessary to increase taxes, why they have to increase taxes. We saw again this morning the examples of mismanagement that put the economy of this Province in the mess that it is in. Mr.

Chairman, let us run through that whole episode with Bowaters. I saw the President of the Council (Mr.Marshall) rise in his place and indignantly go after CBC again. 11R. >'i'TNDSOR: You are going to get it wrong again. You have not got it right yet . MR.TULK: On November 18th, Mr.Chairman, the President of the Council , the acting Premier,and I suppose the Premier of this Province knew that Bowaters were thinking of a partial closure and eight weeks down time in the first quarter of 1983. On November 26th the Leader of the' Opposition (Mr.Neary) raised the question in this House.

And we heard the President of the Council yesterday and for the last week - it is only a week today, I suppose, that the Opposition Leader raised it·- we heard the President of the Council go on about the irresponsibility of the Leader of the Opposition and that he should have, once he had gotten this.-information,run over to the Premier or run over to the President of the Council and said that he had this information and would the 6461

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3063 ah-·2 ~1R . TOLK : Premier like to act on it . Now let us ask them the question in reverse . Why on November 18th when the President of the Council (Mr . Marshall) and the Premier and the government knew that Bo1.,aters were going to close, if indeed there were negotiations going on , which I do not believe there were, but if there were negotiations ~oing on, why did not the Premier come across th is nouse, if they ,.,ere delicate negotiations, 6462

December 3, 1982 Tape 3064 PK - 1 MR. TULK: why did not the Premier come across this House on Novermber 19 or the 20 or 21 at the first opportunity - MR. HODDER: ------ As he has done before. MR. TULK: - as he has done before, - MR. HODDER : Right. MR. TULK: - and say to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) would you keep this quiet,as he did with his security guards~ Mr. Chairman, that was kept quiet because it was in the interest of the Premier himself,a personal interest to do so. That was kept down. Why did he not give a secret briefing - as we had the former r4inister of Energy do on the offshore- MR.

HODDER: He told us al:xlut Nickerson's. MR. TULK: - as he did with Fishery Products last July, when the rumour was out that Fishery Products were about to go bottom up? Then he came over and said to the Leader of the Opposition that this is going to happen,the same thing was true of Nickerson's. Why not? No, Mr. Chairman. The answer is obvious, why not. The Premier, the government wanted the announcement to be made by Bowaters and then they had somebody to blame ' the whole shemozzle on. That was it. That is the real reason. MR. WINDSOR: You mean we sucked you in? MR. TULK: No, no. Mr.

Chairman, the Leader of the Opposition did a real service to the people of Corner Brook. MR. WINDSOR: Oh, yeah! MR. TULK: He did a real service to the people of Corner Brook by bringing this matter out in the open and letting them know what actually was going on that the Premier knew and was sitting on the information. He did the 6463

December 3, 1982 Tape 3064 PK - 2 MR. TULK: people of this Province, Mr. Chairman, a service by letting them know that we have a government in this Province that sits on information,that tries to weasel its way out of certain things, that is prepared to blame anybody for something that happens. Mr. Chairman,that is the real story. We get the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) this morning standing up and again going after CBC about what went on in London. He tried to make this House believe and this Province believe, he tried that, Mr.

Chairman, either knowingly or unknowingly, I do not know which, but it is either, one, incompetence or, the other one, you are not allowed to say in this House and I do not intend to , Mr. Chairman, the whole truth is , the truth seems to be at this point tha .t the Premier, who was on a mission with the federal government, with the Federal Fisheries Minister (Mr. De Bane) who was on that mission,the real truth is he that he happened to bump in, he was probably sitting down by the side of him having a meal and found out AN HON. MEMBER: A few beers. MR.

TULK: Do not say a few beer, He may have been having a few beer, there is nothing wrong with having a few beer 1 or caviar or whatever, But he was sitting down having a meal and all at once he probably realized that the guy sitting next to him was a person from Bowaters. Mr. Chairman, is it not a shame that the Premier did no·t know how important the meeting was? Let us say he did not know, let us give the President of the Council the benefit of the doubt and say ,no 1he did not know: But is it not a shame that he did not even know the title of the gentleman that he was sitting with.

He did not even know what his title was, whether he was the Chairman of Bowaters 1with this crisis on his hands. 6lt 6 4

December 3, 1982 Tape 3064 PK - 3 MR. TULK: How much work had he done in preparation for the meeting? Absolutely none. The meeting was accidental· It was not planned, Mr. Chairman. 6465

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3065 so - l MR. TULK: So we get the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) running out last Friday, telephoning the Premier. The matter of Bowaters has been raised in the House. Where else should it be raised but in this House? Unless the Premier had come across this House and said to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), 'Look, we have a problem with Botaters. There are very delicate negotiations going on. Would you please, if you get this information, be quiet?' That would have happened, no problem. I gave example after example. But in any case, Mr.

Chairman, it was raised and was said in the House by the President of the Council. Let me go on to reconstruct what I believe to be the scenario. The President of the Council rushes out, phones the Premier in London and says,'We just had the question of Bowaters raised in the House'.

And the Premier was very fortunate - I am not sure that he was; it may be unfortunate for him in the long run; it may be unfortunate for the government - he was very fortunate to have an excuse, to say, 'Yes, I have met with the Chairman of the Board of Bowaters.' 'The Chairman of the Board' were the words that were~ used repeatedly in Hansard, the Chairman of the Board, Mr. Chairman. He was not the Chairman of the Board as we find out later, he was the Chief Operational Officer, I believe the President of the Council called him. MR. RIDEOUT: his correct title either. MR. TULK: over there. MR.

CHAIRMAN(Aylward): MR. TULK: The hon. gentleman is not using Mr. Chairman, ask him to be quiet Order, please! He was very fortunate in that he had the opportunity to be able to say, 'I have met with him. You can go back in to the House and tell the people of 6lf 5 G

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3065 SD - 2 MR. TULK: Newfoundland and tell the House that I have indeed met the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Bowaters. That is who I have met.' Mr. Chairman, we find out from CBC, and rightly so, who have been told in this House repeatedly, all the press have been told in this House repeatedly by the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) that the Premier had met with the Chairman of the Board of Bowaters - 6467

December 3, 1982 Tape 3066 Nt-1-1 MR. TULK: what else were they to believe but that he had?-so the question \vas put to him: "Did the Premier meet with the Chairman of the "Board? Did he meet with anybody?" Because they knew he had not. Through their investigation they found out that he had not met with anybody. Mr. Chairman, what this government has to have, it has to have somebody to blame. As the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) said yesterday evening, "This group has been responsible for nothing in four years. They have not tak~n any responsibility for anything.

Seine­ body always has 1;o be the scapegoat for them." MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. Motion, that the Committee report having passed the resolution and a bill consequent thereto, without amendment, carried. DR. COLLINS: Order 26. A bill, "An Act TO Amend The Deferred Pensions Act." (Bill No. 33) . ~1R. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Minister of Communications. MR. DOYLE: I am informed, t-1r. Chairman, that there is an amendment to this act;

section 2 (ll as set forth in clause 3 of this bill is struck out and the following is substituted: MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please! Before the hon. member brings it in, as a matter of form v1e have to carry clause 1 first . . On motion, clause 1, carried. Z.1R. CHAIRMAN: Shall clause 2, carry? 6 L~ 6 8

... December 3, 1982 Tape 3066 NM - 2 MR . CHAI~~ (Aylward) : The hon. Minister of Communications . MR . DOYLE: Mr . Chairman, "An Act To Amend The Deferred Pensions Act ," thexe is an amendment to it;

section 2 (1) as set forth in clause 3 of this bil .l was struck out and the followi ng substituted" 2 (1), "This act shall be read with the Civil Service Act, The Education (Teachers' Pensions) 1\ct, the f>1emorial University (Pensions) Act, The Public Sexvice (Pensions) 1\ct, and The Uniformed Services Pensions 1\ct ." The second part, paragraph (

d) of clause 5 of this bill is amended by striking out the words, "The Constabulaxy (Pensions) Act," and substituting the words, "The Uniformed Services Pensions Act." DR . COLLINS : Just for clarification that is merely because Bill 66 was put in and it just changed the name of that Act. Bill 66 changed the name of The Constabulary Act to the Uniformed services Act, and it is just 6469

December 3, 1982 Tape 3067 EC -- 1 DR. COLLINS: to make that consistent, that is all that is to it. A bill, "An Act To Amend The Deferred.Pensions Act," (Bill No. 33). amended, carried. On motion, amendment carried. On motion, clause (3) as Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill with amendment, carried. MR. MARSHALL: Order 27, Bill No. 58. A bill, "An Act To Amend The Pension (Auditor General) Act, 1968." (Bill No. 58). Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried. MR. MARSHALL: Order 28, Bill No. 66.

A bill, "An Act Respecting Pensions For The Members Of The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary And The St. John's Fire Department And The Staff Of Her Majesty's Penitentiary." (Bill No. 66). (2), carried. (16), by leave, carried. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward); MR. MARSHALL: On motion, clauses (1) and On motion, clauses (3) through Shall clause (17) carry? Mr.

Chairman, I have an amendment I would like to propose to that, that clause (17) of this bill be amended, (a) (1) by striking out the commas, words and figures subject to subsection 3, EI,Il,d (p) ;l;n. subal,O\'ll::l~ (2) by striking out the commas, words and figures subject to subsection 3, and (

c) by striking out subclause (3). This is just to t1dy up the drafting aspects of it, Mr. Chairman. On motion, clause (17) as amended, carried. On motion, clauses (18) through (22), carried. 64/-0

December 3, 1982 Tape 3068 PK - 1 On motion Clauses (23) to (31), by leave, carried. Motion that the Committee report having passed the bill with amendment, carried . MR . MARSHALL: Order 29, Bill No . 13 A bill, "An Act To Amend The Grand Falls Hospital (Management) Act , 1961" . (Bill No . 13) . Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried . MR . MARSHALL: Order 30 , Bill No . 6. A bill, "An Act To Amend The Cancer Treatment And Research Foundation Act , 1971", (Bill No . 6) . Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment , carried . MR .

MARSHALL: Order 31, Bill No .3S . A bill, "An Act To Repeal The St . John 's Memorial Stadium Act, 1974 ", (Bill No . 35) . Motion , that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried. MR . MARSHALL : Order 32 , Bill No . 18 . A bill, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation Act", (Bill No . 18) . DR . COLLINS : MR . CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : DR . COLLINS : On motion , Clause (1) carried . Mr. Chairman . The hon . Minister of Finance . Just a quick word, Mr . Chairman . 6471

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3069 MJ - l DR. J . COLLINS : The hon . the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr . E. Roberts) asked fo r reports on the NIDC, the Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation , last day and I said I would get the latest one available . r have to report that this corporation is reported in the Publ .ic Accounts it is not otherwise reported in the House . So it is in the Public Accounts, and the Public Accounts were tabled for 1980 -81, and 1981-82 will be tabled shortly. A bill , "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation Act ." (Bill No . 18) .

On motion, clauses (ll and (2) carried . Motion , that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried . MR . WM . MARSHALL : I move , that the Committee rise and report progres s, Mr . Chairman . On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, Mr . Speaker, returned to the Chair . MR. SPEAKER (Ru ssell) : Order, please! The hon . the member for Kilbride . MR . CHA i fu~ (Aylward) : Mr.

Speaker, the Committee of the Whole have considered the matters to them referred and have directed me to report that they have adopted a certain resolution and recommends that Bill No . 74 be introduced to give effect to the same, and they have also directed me to report Bills No . 58, 13 , 6, 35 and 18 without amendments and Bills No . 33 and 66 with amendments and ask leave to sit again . 6472

.J:L --- --- December 3, 1982 Tape 3070 NM - 1 On motion ,report received and adopted . On motion,resolution read a first and second time . A Bill, "An Act To Amend The Insurance Premiums Tax Act, 1978". On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Insurance l?remiums Tax Act, 1978", read a first second, and third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No . 74) A Bill, "An Act To Amend The Deferred Pensions Act". (No. 33) On motion, amendments read a first and second time , bill ordered read a third time , presently , by leave .

A Bill, "An Act Respecting Pensions For The Members Of The Royal Nev1foundland Constaulary And The St . John 's Fire Department And The Staff Of Her Majesty 's Penitentiary". (No . 66) On motion,amendments read a fi rs t and second time, bill ordered read a third time, presently, by leave . MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Bill No . 58 . MR . MARSHALL: If I could, Mr . Speaker, that is fine, but what I was planning to do so there would be no confusion , I was planning with the Leader of the Oppositio~ (~tr.

Neary) hopefully when we get the other bills passed Committee and second reading, on reading them all the third time so we will not have any confusion. Okay? So perhaps I could call then, ~tr . Speaker, the next one, which is Order 33, Bill No . 9, The Department of Finance Act . We debated that before . 6473

December 3, 1982 Tape 3070 NM - 2 Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department of Finance Act," (No.9). MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : DR. COLLINS: The bon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, this act, as hon. members know, was extensively debated in the Third Session of the Thirty-Eighth General Assembly, 6474

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3071 SD - 1 DR. COLLINS : and what it deals with really is administrative changes within the Department of Finance so that now there are two divisions in the department; there is one division under the Deputy Minister of Finance which deals with the general work of the department and things like debt management and pensions and that sort of thing, and then there is the other division,under the Comptroller General 1 which deals with taxation and audit and the Exchequer and so forth. And this is what it is.

There are a few consequential things that flow from that in terms of ADMs and so on,but that is the essential nature of the bill. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the hon. gentleman said about tidying up the various branches of the department as a result of bringing in a new act to set up the Comptroller General of the Public Treasury. Mr. Speaker, this gives me an opportunity to raise a matter that I raised following the April 6th provincial election.

I charged at the time that the administration was spending money without authority, without the authority of this House. Mr. Speaker, I did not make any innuendoes or any accusations, I charged the administration with breaking the law. They have broken the statutes of this Province. And my charges were substantiated and confirmed by Senator Forsey and by Steven Scott, one of Canada's most outstanding constitutional lawyers. Both of these gentlemen agreed with me that the administration had spent money,from the time the election was called up until the time they got Interim supply here in the House, illegally.

And then they came into the House and brought in

an act to make it legal, retroactively, what they had done illegally. 6L~ 7 5

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3071 so - 2 MR . NEARY : Now, Mr . Speaker, that does not make the situation right ,by passing

an act in this house Making it retro­ active to make sarething legal t:'lU.t has been done illegally . Mr . Speaker, it is against the tradition and it is against the Constitution of this Parliament . The fact of the matter is that the government had spent money illegally and not only that , they went to the Lieutenant-Governor and they had the Lieutenant ­ Governor sign warrants under false pretences .

And I sent copies of the opinions that I had from Mr . scott especially, who went into it in great detail, who researched it and took months to do it and in the process provided a great public service to this Province free of charge, knowing, Mr . Speaker, that we on this side of the House did not have the funds to hire a la~yer like Mr . Scott . MR . STAGG : Who is this philanthropist anyway? 6476

December 3,1982 Tape No . 3072 ah -1 M.R .NEARY : I do not know very much about the gentleman except that I believe he was head of the law department or lectured at l'lcGill University and - MR. STAGG : He did it for nothing . MR . NEARY : - he is noH one of Canada 's leading constitutional lawyers who did it free of charge , yes , no charge . MR .STAGG : And he worked on it for months . MR.NEARY : I \~ rote him, Mr .Speaker, last April or last May and I did not get a reply until sometime, I think it was in August or September . MR . STAGG : months . MR. NEJ\RY : it for months . MR .

STAGG : on it for months . 1'1R .NEARY : And he worked on it for I do not know if he \-lor ked on That is what you said, he worked He had it under advisement and under co nsideration for months . MR . STAGG : What are his politics? MR .NEARY : I do not know . As I say,I am not all that familiar with the gentleman . MR .STJ\GG : You should investigate those things too,you know . MR .NEI\RY : Oh, I should investigate those Mr . Speaker, we are very happy to get the help things . and assistance - I do not know what his politics are .

He may be an NDP or he may be a Tory , he may be a Liberal , I do not know, But he is a constitutional lawyer . Senator Forsey is considered to be one of Canada 's top constitu ti onal lawyers and both of these gentlemen have said that the government broke the law . They spent money illegally . t-1.R . STAGG: Senator Forsey is not a lawyer . 6477

December 3,1982 Tape No. 3072 ah-2 MR.NEARY: No, but he is considered to be one of Canada's leading constitutional experts and so is Stephen Scott. Now, Mr. Speaker, the point that I am making while we are debating this bill which involves the Comptroller General of the public treasury is that the comptroller of the treasury, under the Financial Administration Act in this Province,told the government that they could not spend. We had letters tabled in this House from the Comptroller General of the treasury saying,"Do not spend the money.

You do not have the authority." And the government told us that they got a legal opinion from lawyers in the Justice Department and they refused to table the legal opinion in this House which leads me to believe that they knew, Mr.Speaker, they knew that they were spending money illegally and without authority. That is a no-no under our system. If you do that you remove the power of the purse from the legislature. It is a no-no and it is a very dangerous precedent, one of the most dangerous precedents you could set in this hon. House.

They use the clause under the Financial Administration Act to try to weasel their way around it. The clause they use, the

interpretation of this particular clause had no bearing on the period we were talking about. The period we are talking about was the period after the end of the financial year when the only reason, the only 6 L~ 7 8

December 3, 1982 Tape . No. 3073 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: authority the government would have to spend money after the end of the fiscal year was to bring Interim Supply into the House or to bring down a budget. That is the only authority they would have for spending. Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, under no circumstances could the government continue to spend money after the end of the fiscal year without the authority of this House. Andche Premier had the opportunity to open the House and he did not do it 1 insteadhe went and got Lieutenant-Governor's warrants and overruled the Comptroller of the Treasury. He was overruled, he was told he was nothing, 'Look, you are nothing. Here ,we have got an

interpretation here, we have got a clause here, we can get around it. And any lawyer worth his salt, any two-bit lawyer - and I am not looking at the hon. gentleman in the gallery - any two-bit lawyer MR. T. RIDEOUT: gentleman. MR. NEARY: I have heard your opinion on the A fine gentleman. I have heard the hon. gentleman's opinion on a lot of people in this House including the present ·Premier, and he is kissing his picture every day. I have heard the hon. gentleman's opinion of him. MR. RIDEOUT: hon. gentleman's ability . MR.

NEARY: I heard you talking about the Yes, and I have heard the hon. gentleman talk about members of this caucus and members of that caucus, especially the Premier and the Government House Leader (Mr. Wm. Marshall) and now he is over there, he adores him and idolizes him. MR. N. DOYLE: MR. H. YOUNG: MR. NEARY: A very well respected member of our caucus . We were glad to get him. Mr. Speaker, any two-bit lawyer, 6lt 7 9

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3073 MJ - 2 MR . S. NEARY: any student of law knows that you cannot spend money without the authority of this House and yet they went ahead and ignored the protest and the objections of the Comptroller of the Treasury and they went spending money without the authority of this House. Now, Mr .

Speaker , the reason I am raising it now is that I am hoping -;;ometime in this current session of the House ,or in the next session of the House that the Financial Administration Act will be amended and the Department of Finance Act will be amended to make it ironclad , to make it impossible for any government,and I do not care what the label is, Liberal, Tory or NDP, to make it virtually impossible for any government to spend money without the auth ority of the House . 6480

~ December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3074 so - l MR. NEARY: I am still hoping that this matter is not closed yet, by the way.- the incident that happened in April and May of last year - that matter is not closed yet. I am still hoping that people in authority will get the Orders in Council and that they will get the correspondence and the working papers and the opinions of the Finance Department and that they will carry out a thorough investigation to see if indeed anybody was duped in the carrying out of this procedure that the government used, this illegal procedure. I am hoping yet that the matter is still ongoing, Mr.

Speaker, the investigation is still ongoing. I know that documents have been sent for, the Orders in Council and all the documents in connection with this. And I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that in future-and this is not a criticism of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor - but we have had two occasions in this Province, we had one by Mr. Moores who went with a resignation of a member in his inside pocket at three or four or five o'clock in the morning and the Lieutenant­ Governor agreed to allow the House to be dissolved on the basis of a resignation that Moores had in his pocket.

And he did not even leave it at the Government House, he did not even leave a copy there. He just waved around, a bit of paper like this - 'I have a member's resignation' - and was able to get a dissolution of the House to have a general election. MR. STAGG: It did not happen that way. MR. NEARY: It did happen that way, it certainly did. Mr. Speaker, I am one of the people who went and asked for a copy of the resignation and it was not on file at Government House. It was not even on file in the Speaker's office. It was in the pocket of a Clerk of this House in downtown St. John's.

This resignation was waved around and they did not even have the courtesy to leave it with His Honour or to leave a copy of it there. And the same thing happened, 6451

December 3, 1982 Tape No . 3074 so - 2 MR . NEARY : ~tt . Speaker, with these Lieutentant- Governor 's warrants when the government was spending money without authority . I am not criticizing His Honour, I have no intention of doing so . As a matter of fact , under our Oath of Office in this House there are three things we are not allowed to do; we are not allowed to criticize the Queen , the Queen's representatives or judges of the Supreme Court . Mr . Speaker , that situation involving the resignation will always be a black mark on this Province . 6462

December 3, 1982 Tape 3075 PK - l ~IR. NEARY: I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that in future as a result of the experience that we have had with this administration and the way their credibility and believability has been damaged in the last several weeks - MR. CALLAN: And tarnished. MR. NEARY: - and tarnished, Mr. Speaker, that nobody ever again will be able to trust this administration, that I hope His Honour in future will look rather askance at ministers and the Premier, the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) especially, when he comes with his Lieutenant-Governor's warrants and asks to have warrants signed to spend money that they have no approval or no authority of this House to spend. That will be a proud day, Mr. Speaker, when His Honour says no to the Minister of Finance and to the administration: 'No, you are not following the right procedure. Open the House and get authority to spend this money. I have no right to give you the authority even though I am the Queen's representative.

I have no right to give you authority to spend money that you have not had approved by the House.' I am still hoping that this matter will not be closed, Mr. Speaker, that by this experience we will learn and that the investigation will be ongoing. Because the real damage that was done by this continuation of spending without authority is that it was one of the real causes and contributed heavily to the financial mess that we are in in this Province at the present time.

Honourable gentlemen should think about that, that the wild and wreckless spending and spending without authority are the reasons we are in the financial mess we are in this Province at the present time. Honourable gentlemen have to realize also, Mr. Speaker, that individually and collectively they are responsible for breaking the law, for doing something illegal, individually and collectively. If they break the law they could be charged in a court of law. If I had my Dr, P 1 ~J ··; . 1 u

December 3, 1982 Tape 3075 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: time back, Mr. Speaker, if I had only known, if I had a little more legal training at the time, if I had , Mr. Speaker, I would have taken the matter to the Supreme Court of Canada, and I would have won the case, and I would have blocked, I would have gotten an injunction to block this spending without authority. If I only had my time back. There was about a two week period , ten days to two weeks, that 6/·l· 8 q.

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3076 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: we had gone over the end of the fiscal year and government could not spend without the authority of this House. It did not make any difference, Mr. Speaker, what excuses they gave. If I had my time back I would have employed a good lawyer and I would have gotten an injunction and I would have stopped, barred that indiscriminate spending, that illegal spending by the administration and I would have charged the Premier and the ministers and taken them to court. Mr.

Speaker, it was a very, very serious thing that they did and a very dangerous thing that they did,and there is no excuse for it, they could have had the House open. They could have gotten interim supply and the public servants could have been paid, the nurses could have been paid and the teachers could have been paid salaries and wages and essential welfare officers and essential services could have went on, Mr. Speaker, but they did not elect to do that. So, Mr.

Speaker, that is why I am glad to be able to take advantage under this bill to raise this matter, as I really think that we need to have an ironclad Financial Administration Act and amendments made to the Department of Finance Act so that when the Comptroller of the Treasury says no, that is it, he is speaking for this House. Are hon. gentleman aware that we have set up this act establishing the position of the Comptroller of the Treasury to protect the Public Treasury against the very thing that this crowd did? The Comptroller of the Treasury answers to this House.

He is our only safety valve in the department, he and the Auditor General; the Auditor General after the fact, the Comptroller of the Treasury dealing with current events and current affairs and things that come up on the spur of the moment. And the Comptroller General, when he spoke and wrote the administration and said, 'No, I protest. I object to 6455

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3076 MJ - 2 MR . S. NEARY : you spending this money', he was overruled . The Lieutenant-Governor in Council, which is the Premier and the Cabinet,overruled him . And we hear this talk about Treasury Board -I hope hon . gentleman realize that Treasury Board is a sub -committee of Cabinet - so it was the Cabinet that overruled a servant of this House and we should resent that, Mr . Speaker, we should be highly indignant over it. And I hope, Mr . Speaker, that it will never happen again,but we have to somehow or other erase that incident from the record and,as I 6486

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3077 so - 1 MR. NEARY: said a few moments ago, I hope that the investigation is ongoing and I hope that people in authority,if they feel that they have been had or conned or misled by this administration,as they were,that they will send for the documents and that they will examine them and they will get legal and constitutional advice so that never again in this Province will anybody put a signature to a document or to a warrant that will approve the spending of public money, of taxpayer money, without the authority of this House. DR. COLLINS: MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward) : he will close debate. DR. COLLINS: 11r. Speaker. If the hon. gentleman speaks now The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, in closing the debate I just want to have a few words on the hon. Leader of the Opposition's comments. The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), of course, is riding a hobbyhorse that he has ridden before and this has been brought up before and it has been answered before. The point is that there is no inhibition on the Premier calling an election whenever he wants.

If that happens to interfer with the fiscal year, the Financial Administration Act has in it very clearly a mechanism for dealing with it. And the mechanism is laid out there, the mechanism was followed. The essence of it is that if there is not Interim Supply the Lieutenant-Governor is approached for a special warrant. If he feels that it is proper for him to give it,he will give it; if he does not feel it is proper for him to give it, he will not give it. In this instance he did give it. He felt it was proper to give it.

Because the fiscal year had run out when the warrant was presented to the Department of Finance, the Comptroller General,as is his duty, made a protest, objected to expending 61~.87

December 3, 1982 Tape No. 3977 SD - 2 DR. COLLINS: money because the year had run out. Hisobjection is forwarded to Treasury Board; Treasury Board considers his objection , goes by the Financial Administration Act and, if it feels it proper, will overrule his objection. That is what Treasury Board did~ it considered his objection, it overruled it and gave authority for the spending to go ahead.

The requirement is then laid upon the Comptroller General to report all ·this to the House and to report the expenditures that did take place after the fiscal year had ended and before an Interim Supply bill was brought in. The Comptroller General did exactly that,and then it is up to this House, the ultimate authority is up to this House to validate that whole procedure,and this House did validate the whole procedure. So there is nothing strange, weird, wonderful about it and that is the way it went.

And if the same occasion arises in the future, it will go that way and the Financial Administration Act gives us the authority for so doing. So with those few explanatory words 1 I move second reading. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Finance Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. (Bill No. 9). MR. MARSHALL: Order 36, Bill No. 25. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act," (Bill No. 25). MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs. MRS. NEWHOOK: Mr.

Speaker, Bill No. 25 contains a number of amendments which are of a housekeeping nature and are intended for clarification purposes arising out of 61~ B S

December 3,1982 Tape 3078 ah-1 MRS NEWHOOK: problems of

interpretation that have occured during the administration of our Municipalities Act. Other amendments are proposed to deal with concerns which have developed as a result of the practical application of this piece of legislation. And just commenting very briefly , Mr.Speaker, on some of the other maybe more major amendments, one ensures that accumulated surpluses or deficits may be carried forward in the following year of the budget of any municipality or can be spread over a period of years, and that a surplus can be created for a specific purpose.

Also the amendments cover that it will not be compulsory to give a commitment to the implementation of the real property tax where the request for water and sewer system services covers less than 50 per cent of the residents of a town. Also that the property tax exemption now applicable to productive farmland can be extended to any buildings used in connection with productive farming on that land. Another permits councils to make regulations relating to lot sizes. They make regulations now regarding buildings but they can now regulate the minimum size of a lot.

And these amendments also give permission for councils to make regulations respecting the use of pellet and air guns. This has been requested. And also, just one more that may be a little bit important, isit gives community councils the right to hold elections the same as regular councils and that they can increase their members from five to seven. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MRS NEWHOOK: Other amendments, Sir, just deal with conflicts of interests, requirement for public hearings and the election procedures. I propose this bill, Sir. 6 Lt B 9

December 3,1982 ~1R.NEARY: MR .SPEAKER (Aylward) : Opposition . MR . NEARY : Tape No . 3078 ah -2 Mr . Speaker . The hon . Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I regret to have to say that this is a heavy piece of legislation . I think the Government House Leader (Mr .Marshall) is rushing to close the House and he should have left this on the Order Paper . There are so many items under this bill , Mr . Speaker . MR. MARSHALL : Look what is in it. MR .NEARY : 'Look what is in it,'the hon . gentleman says . It i s~ major piece of leg islation . 643u

December 3, 1982 Tape 3079 PK - l MR. NEARY: Every item of this bill should be thoroughly discussed and we cannot do it in the time that we have, Mr. Speaker. But if the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) insists and he wants to ram it through the House,there is not much we can do about it, There are only eight of us over here and forty-four over there; they can do what they like with it.

But I would have preferred myself to see this bill hang over for either continuation of this current session, stay here until Christmas Eve,or open the House early in the New Year and then debate this bill, leave it on the Order Paper for a new session of the House. But right now, Mr. Speaker, with the time that we have at our disposal we cannot do justice to this bill. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act", read a second time , ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presentiy by leave. MR. MARSHALL: Order 40, Bill No. 22.

Motion,second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Minerals Act, 1976", (Bill No. 22). MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, this is basically a minor amendment to the Mineral Act, basically putting back into place wording that was changed in 1980 and which apparently has not really worked out to the satisfaction of the mining industry, in fact has been looked on by some companies as being a deterrent to exploration, and certainly that is not the intent of this administration.

So we are changing the wording back in accordance with the request of i.ndustry generally. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it is nice to see a minister stand up for a change and admit that he was wrong, 6lf g 1

Decembe~ 3, 1982 Tape 3079 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: to see the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) admit that the act,when it was amended 1 the wording was ill-conceived. The procedure was bad, was poor, it was discouraging exploration and mining development in this Province. And we support, Mr. Speaker, the bill, and we are happy to seeit at lon g last. I think we raised an objection to this at the time, I remember speaking on this bill myself. So, Mr. Speaker, we are glad that the minister is forced to go back to putting this clause back the way it was in the act. And I have no doubt, Mr.

Speaker, if you did your research that you would discover that this act was brought in by a Liberal Government and this clause was written and brought into this House and approved , passed by a Liberal Administration. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : now he will close the debate. MR. WINDSOR : If the hon. minister speaks The hon. Minister of Development. Mr. Speaker, first of all I am not forced to admit that I was wrong because I certainly was not Minister of Mines when th is was put into place in 1980. MR. NEARY: Well,the administration was wrong. MR.

WINDSOR: But certainly what we were doing is ensuring as much as possible that exploration in this Province will stay at a high. And I just note, Mr. Speaker, that the :'·iineral Impost Tax Act that has been brought into this House by this administration has resulted in greater than 95 per cent of this Province being available for exploration. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hel'lr, hear! On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Mineral Act, 1976", read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. 61-t92

December 3, 1982 Tape 3079 PK - 3 MR. Ml\RSHl\LL: Mr. Speaker, I just overlooked Order 39, Bill No. 7. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Memorial University (Pensions) Act", (Bill No. 7) 6493

December 3 1 1982 Tape 3080 EC - 1 MR. CHAIRMAN {Aylward) : The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Hr. Chairman, I move this on behalf of the hon. the Minister of Education (Ms Verge) . All it does is it has the act conform with federal regulations. There was a need to bring in this amendment to aliow the Hemorial University (Pensions) Act to be registered with Revenue Canada and there is a consequential amendment to that, and then there is another provision there which just has to do with the contributions that a person is responsible for after a period of leave. I move second reading.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Memorial University (Pensions) Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the lvhole House presently, by leave. (Bill No. 7). MR. ~mRSHALL: Order 41, Bill No. 21. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The

Schedule To The Government - British Ne\'lfoundland Corporation Limited - N.M. Rothschild & Sons (Confirmation Of Agreement) Act, 1953," (Bill No. 21). MR. CHAIRMAN: Development. MR. WINDSOR: The hon. the Minister of Nr. Speaker, the title of the amendment is longer than the amendment. It is simply a changing in the holdings that BRINCO has in Labrador. Since the holdings were given to them by statute, any release, any surrender of those holdings in Labrador or anywhere in the Province requires an amendment to the legislation.

And this is all this bill is, it is putting into law surrenders made in December, 1979, in fact, by BRINCO in Labrador. And I just note that at that time they surrendered some 49,900 hectares and now have only 6494

December 3, 1982 Tape 3080 EC - 2 MR. ~HNDSOR: a holding of 55,977 hectares out of a total which they had, Mr. Speaker, originally, of 12,955,000 hectares. So they have come from 12,950,000 to 55,900 hectares, and I note that that is directly, Mr. Speaker, due to the Mineral Holdings Impost Tax, which has now opened up literally millions of hectares of land in Labrador and in other parts of our Province for exploration. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: We may have opened them up for exploration, but nothing seems to be happening. It is doing us very little good for the hon. gentleman to get up and utter such pious words, Everybody in this Province knows that we are in a desperate situation economically and financially in this Province. And the bon. gentleman can get up and heap all the self-praise he wants on himself and the administration. The fact is that nothing is happening. I have heard rumbles and messages corning from the mining industry that they would not touch this Province with a barge pole. That is the truth of it. Nothing is happening. llR.

S I.HMS : ------- A barge pole. MR. NEARY: Yes, HR. SI~J!S: ----- - How long is that? MR. NEARY: I do not know how 1ong it is, but anyway, this has to do with amending BRINCO's holdings in this Province, in Newfoundland and Labrador. Could the bon. gentleman tell us now what holdings BRINCO have now? And what about the BRINEX uranium property in Northern Labrador? Are they 64.9 5

December 3, 1982 Tape 3080 EC - 3 MR. NEARY: going to hold on to that? BRINEX is a subsidiary of BRINCO. How much property are they holding? And are they sitting on it? You know, how long will they be allowed to sit on the development, Mr. Speaker? I think these are the only questions that I have to ask the hon. gentleman. How much acreage do BRINCO and BRINEX now leave in Newfoundland and Labrador 6 4. 9 6

December 3, 1982 Tape 3081 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: and is anything happening on the property that they have? What is happening at Michelin Lake in Northern Labrador, the uranium deposit? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : If the hon. minister speaks now he closes the debate. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I do not have the figures of BRINCO's holdings on the Island but as I have already indicated BRINCO now has in Labrador 55,971 hectares which is reduced from 12,950,000 hectares that they held originally in Labrador. And yes, they are hold'on to the holdings at the BRINEX uranium discovery '• site and hopefully, Mr.

Speaker, some day we will see development of that site when,first of all,the world economy and the Canadian economy generally will allow development of that nature to take place and when,secondly, we have been satisfied as to our environmental concerns, particularly relating to the tailings.

And I would note that there is a great deal of research taking place on that and in fact this month, if not this week, there is a fairly significant seminar taking place in Montreal dealing with science, technology and research relating to the tailings of uranium and perhaps in the not too distant future technology will be available which will allow us to proceed with that development. I move second reading, Mr. Speaker. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The

Schedule To The Government - British Newfoundland Corporation Limited - N.M. Rothschild & Sons (Confirmation Of Agreement) Act, 1953", read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. 6487

December 3, 1982 Tape 3081 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: Order 47, Bill No. 44. Motion, second reading o,f a bill, "An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act," (No. 44). MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, this is a simple amendment but it has beneficial effects. In essence what it is here for is to permit third parties actions for damages arising out of a motor vehicle accident, to increase it from one year to two years.

As it presently exists now , there is a statutory limitation on the taking of the action, but the action under the insurance provisions are now one year so we are extending it to two years so there will be conformity. I move second reading, Mr. Speaker. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act," (No. 44), read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently, by leave. MR. MARSHALL: Order 45, Bill No. 36. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Day Care And Homemaker Services Act, 1975," (No. 36) MR. SPEAKER: The bon. President of the Council. MR.

MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, this is a bill that is being brought in to the House by the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey). He is not here now but in his absence I would move reading for it. It simply repeals a provision containing a reference to the Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation,which no longer exists,with respect to the provision of day care and homemaker services in the Province. On motion, a bill,

An Act To Amend The Day Care And Homemaker Services Act, 1975," (Bill No. 36), read a second time, ordered to a Committee of the Whole House presently,by leave. 6 L~ 9 B

December 3, 198-2 Tape No. 3082 MJ - 1 MR . WM. MARSHALL: Order 50, Bill No. 65. Motion second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Transportation Act." (Bill No. 65) MR. L. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. t