Manitoba Hansard — 14 May 2001 (Sitting 29, 37th Legislature, 2nd Session)

37-2-29

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LI No. 29-1:30 p.m., Monday, May 14, 2001

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARREIT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie MURRAY, Stuart NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott, Hon. STEFANSON, Heather STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Kirkfield Park Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Tuxedo Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

16 65 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, May 14,2001 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING PETITIONS Manitoba Hydro Lines Routes Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Margaret Lutzer, Kristin Lutzer, William Werestiuk and others, praying that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Min ister responsible for Manitoba Hydro (Mr. Selinger) consider alternative routes for the additional 230kV and 500kV lines proposed for the R.M. of East St. Paul. Kenaston Underpass Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Doreen Froese, Lori Anseeuw, Kim Maharaj and others, praying that the Premier (Mr. Doer) of Manitoba consider reversing his decision to not support construct ion of an underpass at Kenaston and Wilkes. Mr. John Loewen (Fort Why te): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Allan Knight, Fran Chinchille, S. Maurice and others, praying that the Premier of Manitoba consider reversing his decision to not support construct ion of an underpass at Kenaston and Wilkes. READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Manitoba Hydro Lines Routes Mr.

Speaker: The honoura ble Member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler), I have reviewed the petition and it complies with the rules and practices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Mr. Speaker: Clerk, please read. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: THAT the R.M. of East St. Paul has the highest concentra tion of high voltage power lines in a residential area in Manitoba; and THAT the R.M. of East St.

Paul is the only jurisdiction in Manitoba that has both a 500kV and a 230kV line directly behind residences; and THAT numerous studies have linked cancer, in particular childhood leukemia, to the proxim ity of power lines. WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minis ter responsible for Manitoba Hydro consider alternative routes for the additional 230kV and 500kV lines proposed for the R.M. of East St. Paul. Kenaston Underpass Mr. Speaker: The honoura ble Member for Fort Whyte (Mr.

Loewen), I have reviewed the petition and it complies with the rules and practices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Mr. Speaker: Clerk, please read. Madam Clerk: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth :

16 66 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 THAT the intersection at Wilkes and Kenaston has grown to become the largest unseparated crossing in Canada; and THAT the volume of traffic for this railroad crossing is twelve times the acceptable limit as set out by Transport Canada; and THAT vehicles which have to wait for trains at this intersection bum up approximately $1. 4 million in fuel, pollute the environment with over 8 tons of emissions and cause approx imately $7.3 million in motorist delays every year.

WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Premier of Manitoba consider reversing his decision to not support constructi on of an underpass at Kena ston and Wilkes .. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Morris (Mr. Pitura), I have reviewed the petition, and it complies with the rules and practices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Mr. Speaker: The Clerk please read.

Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: THAT the intersection at Wilkes and Kenaston has grown to become the largest unsepa rated crossing in Canada; and THAT the volume of traffic for this railroad crossing is twelve times the acceptable limit as set out by Transport Canada; and THAT vehicles which have to wait for trains at this intersection bum up approximately $1. 4 million in fuel, pollute the environment with over 8 tons of emtsswns and cause approximately $7.3 million in motorist delays every year.

WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Premier of Manitoba consider reversing his decision to not support construction of an underpass at Kenaston and Wilkes. * (13: 35) PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Stand ing Committee on Agriculture First Report Mr. Stan Struthers (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the First Report of the Committee on Agriculture. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Agriculture presents the following as its first report. The committee met on- Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Point of Order Mr.

Jack Penner (Emerson): On a point of order and maybe more for information, I would like to know how the minis ter can table an all party report when the all- party committee has not agreed to the drafting of a final report of the committee. There was a draft report presented to the last committee meeting which was drafted prior to the conclusion of the meeting, and we did not agree to tabling of a report until we all had an opportunity to take a look at the draft report and make our comments to it. We told the minis ter that we would make comment to that final report by today.

Today is not over yet, so I would ask that she might want to consider not tabling the report until we actually had concurred in a report. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): It is my understanding that the report today to be received is only the first report and does not pre-empt further reports by that committee. Mr. Jack Penner: Well, then, I seek your advice, Mr. Speaker, and I question procedure in

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 67 this matter related to this. When you have an all party committee, would it not be a bit presumptuous of the min ister to present a report to the House dealing with an all- party resolution, and would it not be a bit presumptuous of the minis ter to try and table even an interim report until we had come to a conclusion of what should be part of the draft report? Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Perhaps I can clarif y for the member.

At the last committee meeting we agreed on a final resolution that was amended, and that resolution is being tabled. The member is right. We have asked for his input into the report that we tabled which is supposed to be with us later today, but this is the recom mendation of the Clerk that we would table the resolution that was passed by all parties. Mr. Speaker: Order. I will briefly recognize the honoura ble Member for Emerson, but I do not want to get into a debate on the floor here at this moment. Mr. Jack Penner: Mr.

Speaker, I concur with what the min ister is trying to do, and I think we all concur to table the resolution that we had agreed to. I think, again, though, if you do an all party procedure, I think it would have been advisable for the minis ter to at least distribute the resolution in its final draft form that we could all assure that what had been agreed to was in fact that part of those changes in the resolution; so that is the only reason I rise. I concur with the tabling of the resolution.

However, I would have asked that the minis ter might have given us consideration, all three parties given consider ation, of taking a look at the final resolution. If it is not exactly like we think it should be, that we had agreed to, then we will make that known in this House. * (13 :40) Mr. Speaker: I will briefly recognize the honourable Min ister of Agriculture and Food. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I would not want the member to be attempting to mislead the House that he had no input into this final resolution. We spent many hours in committee.

He and his caucus members and the member for the Liberal Party had input, and it was agreed to by all parties. It was also on the advice of the Clerk that the resolution is being tabled today. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, just to assist in this matter, lead to a resolution of this, the Government is certainly committed to intro ducing a concurrence motion with regard to the resolution, which I understand is being reported to the House on today, and we are prepared to do that as early as tomorrow, but we will have further discussions with the Opposition House Leader (Mr. Laurendeau) and the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) in that regard. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Emerson (Mr.

Jack Penner), for clarification of all honoura ble members, when presenting reports by stand ing and special committees, it is reporting of progress to date. It there are any disagreements, I would enco urage honoura ble members to meet with the House leaders. Committees can always be struck to reconvene by the will of the House leaders. That is what I would recommend, so the honourable member does not have a point of order at this time. *** Your Standing Committee on Agriculture presents the fo llowing as its First Report.

Meetings: Your committee met on: Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 6:30 p. m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building Monday, April 23, 2001, at 10 a.m. in Dauphin, Manitoba Monday, April 23, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. in Brandon, Manitoba Monday, April 30, 2001, at 6:30 p. m. in Bea usejour, Manitoba Tuesday, May 1, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building

16 68 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Monday, May 7, 2001, at 6:30 p.m . in Room 255 of the Legislative Building Wednesday, May 9, 2001, at 6:30 p.m . in Room 255 of the Legislative Building Matters Under Consideration: The Al l-Party Resolution on Federal Support fo r Agriculture Membership Resignations/Elections: At the Wednesday, April 18, 2001, meeting, your committee elected: Mr. Struthers as the Chairperson Mr. Nevakshonoff as the Vice-Chairperson At the Monday, April 23, 2001, meeting in Brandon, Manitoba, Mr. Faurschou was substituted on to the committee to replace Mr. Derkach.

At the Monday, April 30, 2001, meeting in Bea usejour, J..fa nitoba, Mr. Praznik was substituted on to the committee to replace Mr. Faurschou. At the Monday, May 7, 2001, meeting, Mr. Aglugub was substituted on to the committee to replace Han. Mr. Ashton. At the Wednesday, May 9, 2001, meeting, Han. Mr. Ashton was substituted on to the committee to replace Han. Mr. Lemieux. At the Wednesday, May 9, 2001, meeting, Mr. Tweed was substituted on to the committee to replace Mr. Cummings. At the Wednesday, May 9, 2001, meeting, Mr. Derkach was substituted on to the committee to replace Mr. Praznik.

At the Wednesday, May 9, 2001, meeting, Mr. Santos was substituted on to the committee to replace Mr. Aglugub. Motions: At the Monday, May 7, 2001, meeting, your committee passed the fo llowing motion: That the Standing Committee acijourn and return on Wednesday to discuss the Chair Report and review the resolution and make necessary amendments to return the resolution to the House.

Public Presentations: Your committee heard 76 presentations on the resolution from the fo llowing individuals and/or organizations: At the Monday, April 23, 2001, at 10 a. m. in Dauphin, Manitoba Murray Downing, Grassroots Farmers Ed Melnyk, Private Ci tizen Donald Krieser, Private Ci tizen Tim Klee baum, Private Citizen Lloyd Pl etz, Private Ci tizen AI Marshall, Private Citizen Cameron Flett, Private Ci tizen Gay/ene Dutchyshen, Private Citizen Sydney Puchailo, R.

M of Grandview Lorne Boguski, Mayor of Roblin Fred Embryk, Mayor of Grandview Walter Kolisnyk, Private Ci tizen Gordon McPhee, Private Ci tizen Joe Federowich, Private Citizen Lorne Arn old, Private Ci tizen Lavern Elliott, Private Ci tizen At the Monday, April 23, 2001, at 6:30 p.m . in Brandon, Manitoba Hugh Stephenson, Private Ci tizen Wayne Mothera/, Associ ation of Manitoba Municipalities David Hanlin, Private Ci tizen Perry Palahicky, Private Ci tizen Susan Melnyk, Private Citizen Andrew Dennis, Private Ci tizen Roger and Linda Desrochers, Private Citizen Larry Redpath, Private Ci tizen Gary Temple, Private Ci tizen Roy Stevenson, Mayor, Town of Rivers Bill Morningstar and Duncan Broadf oot, Private Citizens Dennis Heeney, Reeve, R.M of Elton

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 69 Larry Walker, Reeve, R.M of Min iota Gladys Howden, Private Ci tizen Bernie Whetter, Wheat City Feeds Tom Mowbray, Reeve, R.M of Roblin Kirsty Paterson, Private Citizen Ken Waddell, Mayor of Neepawa Weldon Newton, Private Ci tizen Ken Duchanan, Reeve, R.M of Louise Art Cowan, Private Ci tizen Terry Drul, Private Citizen Walter Finlay, Southwest Lobby Group Renske Kaastra, Manitoba Women's Institute & Manitoba Sustainable Agriculture Assoc iation Jim Penner, Reeve, R.M of Wallace R.S .

Chapman, Private Ci tizen At the Monday, April 30, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. in Beausejour, Manitoba Leonard Gluska, Reeve, R.M of Ke lsey AI Tymko, Reeve, R.M o fB rokenhead Andy Baker, Private Citizen Brad Mroz, Private Ci tizen John Sokal, Councillor, R.M of Springfie ld Wayne Drul, Un ited Grain Growers Bill Chuckry, Chuckry Farms Claude Roeland, Private Citizen Ken Yuill and Brian Ke lly, New Agricultural Products Group Dorothy Boznianin, Reeve, R.M of Lac du Bonnet Larry McGonigal, Private Citizen At the Tuesday, May I, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building James Warren Melnyk, Private Citizen Kathleen Paterson, Private Citizen Linda Downing, Private Citizen Joe Dusik, Private Ci tizen Harvey Westf all, Private Ci tizen Tom Kieper, Private Ci tizen Marcel Hacau/ t, Chairman, Manitoba Pork Council Don Dewar, President, Keystone Agricultural Producers Ian Wishart, Private Ci tizen Greg Arason, President and CEO, Canadian Wheat Board Gilbert Lussier, Spokesperson, Delegation of Farmers Mark Ra.ff ard, Private Citizen Robert Friesen, Canadian Federation of Agriculture Dan Penner, Manitoba PU LSE Growers Assoc iation Herm Martens, R.M of Morris Ron Dalmyn, Provincial Coalition fo r Responsible Resource Management Shirley Galbraith, Private Ci tizen Edward Cook, Chairman, Western Canadian Wheatgrowers Associ aiton Brad Mazur, Private Ci tizen Jan Mcintyre, Val Pogson, and Celia Gilf ord, Private Ci tizens Ken Sche llenberg, Private Ci tizen David Oster, Reeve, West St.

Paul Daryl Knight, Private Citizen Written Submissions: The committee received 23 written submissions on the resolution from the fo llowing individuals and/or organizations: Cindy Desrochers, Private Ci tizen Gordon Bartley, Pr ivate Citizen Bill Cochrane, Private Citizen Doug Ramsey, Private Citizen Ray Redfern, Rural Disaster Recovery Coalition Dennis Rogasky, R.M of Strathclair Wayne So/as, Twin Valley Co-op Gordon Thompson and Robert McNabb, Minnedosa Focus Group Warren Ellis, Private Citizen Roger Goe thais, Reeve, R.M of Winchester Julie Turenne Maynard, Manitoba Chambers of Commerce Ian Robson, Private Citizen Ben Groening, South Norfo lk-Treherne Community De velopment Corporation Neil Hathaway, Private Ci tizen Tom Ke lly, Reeve, R.M of South Norf olk Perry VanHumbeck, Private Ci tizen Glen Franklin, Private Citizen Shannon Combs, Private Citizen

16 70 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Robert McLean, Reeve, R.M of Pembina Neil Silver, President, Agricore Robert Radcliff e, Private Citizen Tony Riley, Private Citizen Dorothy Brown, Prairie Winds Clothing Resolutions Considered and Reported: All-Party Resolution on Federal Support for Agriculture Your committee agreed to report this resolution, with the fo llowing amendments: THAT the resolution on "Federal Support fo r Agriculture" be amended: By adding, aft er the 1h "WHEREAS" clause : WHEREA S the Standing Committee has heard presentations on the need fo r fe deral support fo r agriculture during fo ur public hearings held across Manitoba.

By amending the r' resolved clause to read: THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend that, based on the public consultations. the fe deral government recognize fe deral support fo r fa rmers in other countries, and provide at least another $500 million in short-term support fo r grains and oilseeds producers By amending the 51h resolved clause to read: BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend that the fe deral and provincial governments review current sa fety-net programs, such as the Canadian Farm Income Program (CFIP), and crop insurance to ensure that they are meeting the needs of all Canadian producers equitably; and By amending the rJh resolved clause to read: BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture, having heard a number of suggestions fo r value-added proces sing, such as additional ethanol production and new variety of sugar beet, recommend that the provincial and fe deral governments pursue these opportunities fo r rural communities; and By deleting the 3rd. 41h, 1 h and 8'h Resolved clauses.

By adding three new Resolved clauses at the end of the resolution to read: BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED that the Standing Committee send the Hansard and Committee Report to the Honourable Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada and the Honourable Lyle Vanclief, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, fo r their consideration of the Committee's request fo r additional support fo r grains and oilseeds producers; and BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED that the Standing Committee send an invitation to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture to come to Manitoba , to receive the Hansard and Report of the Standing Committee hearings, and to hear fu rther presentations directly from Manitobans; and BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED that the Honourable Gary Doer, Premier of Manitoba, write to the Honourable Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, requesting a meeting to discuss this important issue. (S ub-amendment) THAT the amendment be amended by adding the fo llowing aft er the 5'h WHEREA S:

WHEREAS the Standing Committee on Agriculture, aft er listening to fa rmers, fa rm organizations, business leaders, and municipal offi cials, heard grains and oil seeds producers had losses of $40 to $60 an acre, and an immediate cash injection is needed (S ub-amendment) THAT the amendment be amended by adding the words "and others" aft er the words "these opportunities" in the 41h BE IT FURTH ER RESOL VED:

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1671 (S ub-amendment) THAT the amendment be amended by replacing the final BE IT FURTH ER RESOLVED with the fo llowing: BE IT FURTH ER RESOLVED that Manitoba's Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend to the Legislative Ass embly of Manitoba that the Premier request an immediate meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada in order to discuss an immediate cash infUsion and long term solutions to the fa rm income crisis and that the Premier encourage the Prime Minister to meet with a delegation led by the Premier of Manitoba made up of fa rm, business, and municipal leaders in order to fu lly reflect the devastation fa cing fa rmers, businesses and communities.

Your committee agreed to include the text of the entire amended resolution in this committee re port, as fo llows: FEDERALSUPPORTFORAGRICULTURE

WHEREAS increasing agricultural subsidies provided by the Un ited States and the European Union fe deral treasuries continue to depress world prices fo r grains and oilseeds; and

WHEREAS Manitoba grains and oilseeds producers continue to have their margins decl ine be cause of low prices and rapidly increasing input costs, especially fo r fu el and fe rtilizer; and

WHEREAS the Manitoba government and producers requested immediate assistance fo r grains and oilseeds producers from the fe deral government fo r the 2001 crop year; and

WHEREAS the fe deral government responded with $500 million, dependent upon a provincial contribution of 40 per cent, which was denounced as inadequate by Canadian fa rmers andf arm organizations; and

WHEREAS provincial agriculture ministers from Manitoba, Al berta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec requested an additional $500 million in fe deral support to address the immediate crisis; and

WHEREAS the Standing Committee on Agriculture, aft er listening to fa rmers, fa rm organizations, business leaders, and municipal offi cials, heard grains and oil seeds producers had losses of $40 to $60 an acre, and an immediate cash injection is needed; and

WHEREAS the Manitoba government, despite limited fi nancial resources; announced that it would provide $38 million toward the aid package; and

WHEREAS the Premier of Manitoba has written the Prime Minister, demanding that he be involved in this critical issue.

WHEREAS the Standing Committee has heard presentations on the need fo r fe deral support fo r agriculture during fo ur public hearings held across Manitoba. THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend that, based on the public consultations, the fe deral government recognize fe deral support fo r fa rmers in other countries, and provide at least another $500 million in short-term support fo r grains and oilseeds producers; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Ass embly urge the Federal Government be more aggressive on the international stage in figh ting fo r the removal of fo reign subsidies fo r agriculture; and BE IT FURTH ER RESOLVED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend that the fe deral and provincial governments review current sa fety-net programs, such as the Canadian Farm Income Program (CFIP), and crop insurance to ensure that they are mee ting the needs of all Canadian producers equitably; and BE IT FURTH ER RESOLVED that the Standing Committee on Agriculture, having heard a number of suggestions fo r value-added processing, such as additional ethanol

16 72 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 production and new variety of sugar beet, recommend that the provincial and fe deral governments pursue these opportunities and others fo r rural communities; and BE IT FU RTHER RESOLVED that the Standing Committee send the Hansard and Committee Report to the Honourable Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada and the Honourable Lyle Vanclief, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, fo r their consideration of the Committee's request fo r additional support fo r grains and oilseeds producers; and BE IT FU RTHER RESOLVED that the Standing Committee send an invitation to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture to come to Manitoba, to receive the Hansard and Report of the Standing Committee hearings, and to hear fU rther presentations directly from Manitobans; and BE IT FU RTHER RESOLVED that Manitoba's Standing Committee on Agriculture recommend to the Legislative Ass embly of Manitoba that the Premier request an immediate meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada in order to discuss an immediate cash irifusion and long term solutions to the fa rm income crisis and that the Premier encourage the Prime Minister to meet with a delegation led by the Premier of Manitoba made up of fa rm, business, and municipal leaders in order to fu lly refl ect the devastation fa cing fa rmers, businesses and communities.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Committee of Supply Mr. Conrad Santos (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Supply has adopted certain resolutions, directs me to report progress, and asks leave to sit again. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Biii21-The Manitoba Ethnocultural Advisory and Advocacy Council Act Hon.

Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minis ter of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Ashton) that leave be given to introduc e Bill 21, The Manitoba Ethnocultural Advisory and Advocacy Counc il Act;

Loi sur le Con seil ethnoculturel manitobain de consultation et de revendication, and that the same be now received and read a first time. His Honour, the Admini strator, having been advised of the contents of this biii, recommends it to the House. Motion presented. Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to take this opportunity to introduce the Manitoba Ethnocultural Advi sory and Advocacy Council Act. This act will allow and encourage the ethnocult ural community in this province to participate more fully in government.

The act will provide for the establishment of a council of 21 members, 16 of which will be elected by Manitoba ethnocultural organ izations. The other 5 will be appointed by the Multiculturalism Minis ter (Ms. Barrett) to ensure that there is regional and gender balance on the council. Mr. Sp eaker, the ethnic and cultural diversity we all enjoy in this province is an important part of who we are as a people. This legislation will help us to continue to observe and honour the fact that our people have many different cultural backgrounds and that the quality of life in this province is richer because of it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 73 members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today four students employed as tour guides for the Legislative Building during the summer months. They are Angela Marrello, Rebecca Blaikie, Jane Conly, Melissa Wlock. On behalf of all honourable members, I wel come you here today. * (13: 45) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD School Divisions Amalgamation Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, Manitobans have legitimate concerns about the Mini ster of Education's (Mr. Caldwell) plans for amalgamation.

There seems to be much confusion out in the province and I think some disagreement. I would like to know, for example, how does the Premier respond to one communique that I received, and I quote: The bottom line is that there is no econom ic or ed ucational rationale for proceeding on forced boundary revision. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the Minis ter of Education has been working with a number of school divisions. Members opposite prefer the status quo. We think that the demographics and population changes are in constant change.

We do not have to look very far for a very successful set of decisions that were made a few years ago when the Norwood School Division under the leadership of the school board, which included the Member for St. Vital (Ms. Allen), · and the St. Bonif ace School Division got together on a voluntary basis and made a merger. I think there are a number of proposals that have voluntary support. There are some small school divisio ns that would like to join a larger one, and there is some work going on in that area, but we think the members opposite support the status quo. We support reasonable and practical chan ge.

Mr. Murray: Well, once again there is concern raised out there in Manitoba and I think it is important that the Premier understands those concerns. Again, I simply ask the Premier how does he respond to the assertion that, and I quote: People worry that the new divisions would result in greater bureaucracy and a loss of economy and increased taxes. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, with the downloading of responsibilities and the downloading of taxation that took place at the same time, the former members had commissioned a report to go from 56 school divisions down to 22 school divisions.

We had a doubling of the taxes, the property taxes under their regime in the 19 90s. We had downloading of all kinds of responsibilities and the downloading of taxation that took place at the same time that the former member said commission a report, commission a report to go from 56 school divisions down to 22 school divisions. We had a doubling of the taxes on property taxes under their regime in the 19 90s. We had downloading of all kinds of responsibilities, Mr. Speaker. We had minus two, minus two, zero on an election year, minus two, zero and plus two before an election year under the Tories.

So our concerns were quite legitimate. There are some voluntary proposals where both parties or both divisions are proceeding with some positive ideas. There are other proposals that are still being looked at by school divisions. There is another category where people in a small school division are looking at joining a larger school division, and they are still working with the host school division, if you will, or the larger school division. Mr. Speaker, while members opposite pref er the status quo, they prefer to drift along. We believe in common-sense changes for the future. * (13 :50) Mr. Murray: Mr.

Speaker, the Premier obviously loves to lecture, and he loves to point out all of those things that I raised in here, all of the concerns that he has about the individ ual that raised these issues. He makes a big issue of it. I would like to ta ble where I got the quotations. They came from a communique that came

16 74 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 directly from the Deputy Premier (Ms. Friesen), and I would like to table those for the House. So, Mr. Speaker, perhaps now that the Premier has tried to lecture this side, perhaps he could lecture the member beside him when that particular member said "world communities are concerned about a potential destructive impact on their quality of life." These changes do not make sense. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I thought the member opposite, the Leader of the Opposition, would be standin g up and apologizing for his statement about the Crocus Fund here today.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The press release is dated in 19 96. It deals with the proposal to go from 55 or 56 school divis ions to 22 school divisions. It did not have any policy on transportation of students, particularly younger students in smaller rural school divisions. It did not have policies dealing with the remoteness of northern Manitoba. Of course, members opposite do not know anyth ing about northern Manitoba. It did not deal with some of the distances that would be required for students.

Also, the member, my honoura ble colleague, had some very good material from the Rural Institute, material that we are considering as well in our deliberations and discussions, and we think that rather than have the-{interje ction] Well, the member- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I could complete my answer. There is one model of going from 56 or 57 school divis ions down to 22.

There is another model to do nothing, and there is a reasonable and responsible model that works with school divisions, works with parents, works with taxpayers to get a very, very common-sense solution to changing times. It is five years after this press release, and we obviously will have a common-sense solution to the proposals we are bringing forward. School Divisions Amalgamation Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Clearly members opposite, Mr. Speaker, have changed their tune.

There was silence during the election platform on amalgamation, and now the Minis ter of Education has demanded reports from across Manitoba on the issue of amalgamation, reports that were put together at the cost of the local school divisions. It has come to my attention, Mr. Speaker, that many of these reports were incomplete. Some reports were not sent in.

I would ask the minis ter if he would please table the number of school divisions that sent in incomple te reports or the number of school divisions that asked for more information, because there is great confusion across the province on this issue. * (13 :55) Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Mr. Speaker, I do not think there is much confusion across the province on this particular question. Manitobans are insisting that schools in the public school system in the province of Manitoba be modernized and be thoroughly reviewed with regard to the school division bounda ries. Mr.

Speaker, I have an editorial from last week's Brandon Sun which states: Politics are the roadblock to amalgamation in this province. The members opposite know all about the politicization of this particular issue. The editorials in the Brandon Sun are quite astute in this regard in noting that, quote: The former government's policy was a weak-kneed compromise because rural Conservative MLAs feared for their electoral hides. We began a process in this province- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order.

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 75 Mr. Caldwell: Mr. Speaker, I am agreeing with editorialists that are writing in the Brandon Sun, my home community. They are very astute in this regard. We began a process in this province 18 months ago of consultation and dialogue in a very serious, common-sense fashion with the public school system, and we wiii continue. Mrs. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, given that the minister has neglected to bring forth the other 22 newspaper articles that spoke out against the amalgamation, could this minister please advise whether or not members opposite wiii be forcing amalgamation on all school divisions across this province? Mr. Caldwell: Mr. Speaker, we believe very profoundly in consultation and dialogue. We believe in undertaking a thorough review with the partners in the field, with school divisions, with trustees, with communities around this issue, because we believe in quality education in this province.

We are not going to stay with the status quo in education or in many other areas. Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, given that school divisions across the province are in great confusion over the minister's directive and his decisions about amalgamation, would the minister please tell this House if he has any kind of plan or any kind of map that outlines the kinds of amalgamation members opposite want to see in this province? Mr. Caldwell: Mr. Speaker, unlike members opposite, we do not go into deliberations and consultation with a prearranged agenda and a map in mind.

We have entertained and engaged in this process for the last 18 months in an atmosphere of good faith, and an attitude of seeking the best advice from our partners in the public education system. So, unlike presenting a fait accompli as members opposite did in so many items, in so many areas, from Manitoba Telephone System across the public school system spectrum, this Government believes in working with Manitoba ns. Mountbatten School Infrastructure Project Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Seine River): Mr. Speaker, in a letter dated February 10 , 2000, to the chair of the St.

Vital School Division, the Minis ter of Education advises that the upgrading project for Moun tbatten School has been highly recommended by his Government. As well, the min ister made it clear that the final decision would be made by the Doer government. Mr. Speaker, can the minister explain where his support for the upgrading project at Mountbatten School has gone, and why has he chosen to abandon these parents and children? Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Of course, decisions regarding the infrastructure of our public school system are made by the Public Schools Finance Board in terms of the level of support. Members opposite know this, Mr. Speaker. In terms of the St. Vital School Division's deliberations on that matter, I think the question is best put to the St. Vital School Division. Mrs. Dacquay: Mr. Speaker, I would like to now table the letter that the Minis ter of Education sent to the school division so that he can verify that the words I used were verbatim. Mr.

Speaker, a constituent of mine asks the minis ter: Has this Government considered in its decision to deny funding for improvements to Mountbatten the burgeoning population in the area which may nece ssitate the existence of a school in the community in the foreseeable future? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would just like to remind all honourable members, when the Speaker rises, all members should be seated and the Speaker should be heard in silence. I would just like to remind all honourable members, and I ask for your full co-oper ation. * (14: 00) Mr. Caldwell: Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate the member tabling the letter that was sent on February 20 articulating that, quote: The project identified above is subject to a detailed assessmen t by the Public Schools Finance Board.

16 76 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 The members table letters that confirm the position taken by myself and by this Government that the Public Schools Finance Board is the authority responsible for making decisions on the infrastructure of our public school system, incid ental ly, Mr. Speaker, an infrastructure that was left in virtual ruin by members opposite after 10 years of cuts to the public school system and lack of support for the capital needs in our public school system.

This Government is investing in education, it is investing in educational excellence and it is working with the people of Manitoba to do so. Mrs. Dacquay: My final supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, is: Given that the minis ter selectively read the letter, I would like to ask him, did he sign the letter that then says: The Public Schools Finance Board will forward its recommendations to me for a final decision by Government. Mr. Caldwell: Members know that the final authority for government policy is in this Chamber, Mr. Speaker.

That is fine and that is as it should be, but we are not bolus-bolus going to be running around spendin g money on under passes and overpasses and selling of f Crown corporations, calling the books. Members opposite would like us to spend on the one hand, give tax cuts on the other hand . I prefer to work with the people of the province of Manitoba, to work with divisions, to work with the Public Schools Finance Board to begin to rectify some of the severe infrastructure problems and challenges that members across the Chamber left as their legacy to the people of this province.

Education System Special Education Action Plan Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): In the spring of 19 99, the Manitoba Special Education Review Report was released. Last year the Minis ter of Education advised that an action plan was to be issued in the autumn of the year 2000 or during the winter of 2000-200 1 . My question for the Min ister of Education is: Given that his deadline is past due, where is his action plan? Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): This Government, upon assuming office, put into place the Special Education Review implementa tion phase for the Special Ed Review that was undertaken by members opposite. A branch was set up in government, implementation was set up within the Department of Education to bring to fruition with our partners in the field, parents again, teachers, trustees, children, to put into place a program to implement the Special Ed Review in the province of Manitoba and, indeed, that is what we are doing. Mrs.

Mitchelson: Given that there is an implementati on committee that has been up and running for many months now, can the Minis ter of Education table in this House today the plan of action that that implemen tation committee has developed, and what is happening on imple menta tion of the review? Mr. Caldwell: The Special Ed Review implementation phase has made more progress in the last year than was made under the 12 previous years when the members opposite had an opportunity in office.

The Special Education Review implementation team is now and has been for a number of months, including myself, meeting with parents, with educators around the implementa tion phase of the Special Ed Review. A Web site has been established so that there can be a dialogue between the public and the Special Education Review implementation team. A policy handbook has been and will be distributed broadly through school divis ions in the province of Manitoba around the implementa tion phase of the Special Ed Review.

Awareness and orientation sessions on the Special Education Review implementation have been underway for a number of months, and it is an ticipated, Mr. Speaker, that regional sessions will be held throughout the province this fall. It is a comprehensive plan. Mrs. Mitchelson: Since the Minis ter of Education gave those same answers through the Estimates process last year, I want to ask the

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 77 Minis ter of Education what has been implemented. Mr. Caldwell: The implementation of the Special Education Review will be a comprehens ive, ongoing rollout that will take place over the course of a number of years. The phase of the implementation that is underway right now is an information and feedback exchange between the field, parents, teachers, children, through the Web site, through the hand-out brochure that is in the public school system.

As the special education review implementation does roll out, we on this side of the House would be very, very pleased to be bringing some constru ctive progress to the area of special education, an area that was much neglected in years past. Agriculture Resolution Meeting with Prime Minister Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, we have heard over the last couple of days that it is possible that the Prime Minis ter of Canada might be visiting the province of Manitoba towards the end of this month.

I was wondering-according to the resolution that was just tabled in the House, the mini ster has indicated that the all-pa rty committee has requested that the Premier contact the Prime Min ister and ask for a hearing by those who have requested a hearing with the Prime Mini ster-whether the Premier has asked the Prime Minister whether it is possible to have that meeting of all parties, municipal leaders, agricultural leaders and business leaders to discuss the crisis in agriculture in the province of Manitoba. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Yes, that correspondence has been sent to Ottawa. Mr. Jack Penner: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder then if the Premier would be able to tell us when the meeting will be held and who all the participants of the meeting would be. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite will recall the period prior to '99 and during the '99 flooding and subsequent to that the requests to meet with the Prime Minister, unsuccessf ul attempts to meet with the Prime Minis ter. We note that he is going to be in Winnipeg later this month, so we have asked for that meeting that the all-pa rty committee has asked for.

We think that the kinds of statistical reviews that are presented to the federal government and to the powers that be do not appreciate the tremendous burden, particularly for grain and oilseeds producers, and we would like to convey that directly to him. I noted when we did get a meeting in Ottawa in the fall of 19 99, even though we were there with all the municipal leaders and municipal farm representatives and other members of the Chamber, that the only two people he would meet with were the Premier of Saskatchewan, myself and a note-taker. That meeting, by the way, was not that success ful.

We had to keep working at it. The rest of us were able to meet later on with six or seven members of the federal Cabinet, including Finance Minis ter Martin; Minister of Agriculture V ancli ef; Minis ter responsible for Manitoba; the now-minister responsible, senior Minis ter Mr. Duhamel, Hon ourable Mr. Duhamel; John Harvard; a number of others. So we are trying to follow up on the committee's report, and it would be our goal to have as many people as possible.

A person who is suf fering through the loss of equity in their farm or the crisis of their children staying in farming, I think those people are much better to talk directly, if we can facilitate it, than just politicians. That is our goal, and that is the goal of the member opposite. * (14: 10 ) Mr. Jack Penner: Mr. Speaker, it is encouraging to hear the Premier agree that it is those who are most affected by the crisis who should be involved in the discussion to make the point, and the all-pa rty committee agrees with that.

Would the Premier, for the benefit of all of us in the Legislature, table the letter that he has sent to the Prime Minister requesting this meeting when he will be in Manitoba? Mr. Doer: Well, I have sent now three letters to the Prime Minister. I want to make sure he has

16 78 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 received a copy of the letter, but it should be made public here. The first two letters, I will ensure the members opposite, have copies of those and the committee, and I will just ensure that he has a copy of the letter. But, yes, it should be available to members. The content of the letter is very consi stent with our answers . We know the Prime Minis ter is coming here. The concern about 200 people going down to Ottawa during seeding for a meeting we might not even get, I think it is better for us to try to tailor it to his Winnipeg venue.

Peripheral Vascular Disease Screening Clinic Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): One of the important preventive health ef forts in our province is the screening program for peripheral vascular disease, a program run by Dolores Poot and Diane Brown at Misericordia, an ef fort which is at the forefront of initia tives to develop a community-based and population-wide screening approach to peripheral vascular disease and because peripheral vascular disease is an important sign of cardiovascular disease more broadly. My question is to the Minis ter of Health.

In view of the importance of this screening ef fort, I ask the minis ter what his plans are for the future of the Peripheral Vascular Disease Screening Clinic? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): will take that question as noti ce. Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the Minis ter of Health. I ask the minis ter is he aware that the budget of the Peripheral Vascular Disease Screening Clinic was reduced this fiscal year by some 80 percent? Why is the minis ter saying one thing in terms of prevention but then reducing the province-wide ef fort to detect and prevent cardiovascular disease? Mr.

Chomiak: This year the Department of Health has probably done more on a preventative side than in the history of Manitoba with the most widespread vaccination program for pneumococcal and for flu, for the meningitis program, and for hep C a trace-back, look-back will be announced today. Mr. Gerrard: I ask the minister, when cardiovascular disease is one of the leading causes of morbidity and mortality in this province, why is the min ister reducing efforts to screen and prevent conditions like angina, myocardial infarction, stroke and even impotence? Mr.

Chomiak: Last year we an nounced the first comprehensive cardiac program, I think, in the history of the province that would be a comprehensive five-year plan that would expand the cardiac program beyond anyth ing that has been done in Manitoba. We are very proud and working on that. Education System Standards Testing-Costs Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): The Member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) on August 30, 19 99, in reference to the Grade 3 diagnostic assessment said, and I quote: It would be the policy of the Department of Education when we are in government. It guarantees literacy in Grade 3.

The Member for Concordia also promised to save the education system $3.5 million. Can the Minis ter of Education advise the final cost, including those costs offloaded to the local divisions of the Grade 3 diagnostic assessment? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Maybe to just quickly articulate some of the costs associated with the department, Mr. Speaker. When I was appointed min ister in October '99 we had three people at the OM level.

We have one person at the OM level now, a cost saving of some-it is not saving, a redirection from senior management that the members opposite seem to favour in the Department of Education versus our perspective of getting those resources into the classroom. We undertook a very signifi cant change not only at the deputy minis ter level, moving from three to one, we did that at the ADM level, reducing the number of ADMs. In fact, in terms of staff here throughout the department, freeing up approximately $7 millio n that members opposite

May 14 , 2001 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 79 had in the bureaucracy and we put into the classroom. Grade 3 Literacy Rate Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Well, he did not answer that question. I will try another one. As we approach the end of the school year, does the Doer government now have proof that every Grade 3 student can read and write fluently as he guaranteed during the last election campaign? Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): We have pretty much come through as a government recognized now more broadly across the country as being leaders in early childhood education and education generally. This Government has invested in every sector in the public school system: capital, operating, fewer bureaucrats and more money for classrooms. That is what we want to do, and that is what we will continue to do. Standards Testing- Costs Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr.

Speaker, will the Doer government continue to implement this diagnosti c testing ni ghtmare on the local school divisions, or will there be a plan put in place that will actually assist the teachers in the assessment of Grade 3 children? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): I hope members opposite are not opposed to diagnostic testing for young Manitobans to understand if young Manitobans are having challenges, experiencing challenges in literacy and numeracy, Mr. Speaker.

This Government believes in working with parents, working with teachers and most importantly, working with children to ensure that in their early years they have every opportunity and every advantage in achieving success in terms of literacy and numeracy . Education System Teacher Shortage Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): Mr.

Speaker, the Education Minis ter has spoken of his knowledge of the imminent and potential shortage of teachers throughout the province, especially in the Senior 1 through Senior 4 levels in science and math, yet the minis ter has not allowed for any public discussion and provided for any Government plan. I ask the minis ter here today whether or not he has indeed a plan and could he possibly share it with the House. Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): I know that the Member for Portage Ia Prairie did not really want to get up and ask that question because he was smiling at me when he did so. I know that he is feeling a little for me today because it is Minis ter of Education day in the House today, and I appreciate that because, Mr. Speaker, I very much enjoy working with the Member for Portage Ia Prairie. In terms of the question asked by the member, Mr.

Speaker, you know we are working very assiduously in this Governm ent with our partners in the faculties of education around the province of Manitoba, University of Manitoba, University of Winnipeg, Brandon University, with teachers, the teaching profession through Manitoba Teachers' Society, the trustees through the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, as well as other partners, including superintendents and so forth, together to put into place a long term comprehensive strategy to deal with the future of educators in the province of Manitoba. Classroom Size Mr.

David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): The minis ter has reacted to a question. I would like to ask him most specifically: Is he collaborating with Dr. Glen Nichols and the commission in regard to classroom size in this specific entity? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Thank you for the question, Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Portage 1a Prairie. Doctor Nichols is very well respected in the public education field.

We believe in having a process that has integrity and a process that does engage Manitobans throughout the province at every level in a public dialogue around educational issues generally, in this case specifically classroom size and composition. * (1 4:20)

16 80 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Facu lty of Educ ation Practicums-Rural Manitoba Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): On a new question. In regard to the Premier's (Mr. Doer) earlier remarks today where he indi cated that he is truly interested in the rural of Manitoba, can I ask the Minis ter of Education why the University of Manitoba does not allow their senior students in the Faculty of Education to practicum their studies in the rural of Manitoba? Why are they exclusive to the University of Manitoba, in Winnipeg? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Educ ation, Training and Yo uth): Mr.

Speaker, this is an old policy that members on this side of the House, when we were in Opposition, asked members opposite when they were in government, so obviously this is something that transcends governments. As for the matter, I will take it under advisement and make inquiries of the University of Manitoba. Mr. Fau rschou: Mr. Speaker, the Minis ter of Education indi cated that he is well aware of the problem, yet remained silent for almost two years now. What is his plan? Mr. Caldwell: My plan is certainly not to inte rfere with the integrity and autonomy of universities, Mr. Speaker.

My plan is and the plan has been indeed in all init iatives that this Governmen t has undertaken, whether it is education or in other portfolios, to engage Manitobans, to engage those people who are working in the field, whether it be health care, education or other portfolios, so that the best practices and the best advice from Manitobans working in the field can be of fered to this Governmen t in the development of policy. Manitoba Society of Seniors Government Assistance Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, gee, I am going to have to throw a softball across the hall.

My question is for the Minis ter responsible for Seniors. Mr. Speaker, I am in receipt of a letter from Vic Savage, who is the president of the MSOS, and to quote Mr. Savage: MSOS, at the end of February, came very close to being unable to continue to service the community. I just wanted to get an update from the Minis ter responsible for Senio rs, after that meeting, whether she could inform the House whether she has implemented any plans or directions or assistance to MSOS. Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister responsible for Seniors): Mr.

Speaker, as the member opposite knows very well from his tenure as the Minis ter responsible for Senio rs, the Manitoba Society of Seniors is an independent body that to date has funded itself. This Government, nor his government, never did fund the Manitoba Society of Seniors, although some funding does flow for specific and special events. I would like to say as well, Mr. Speaker, that I did not receive personally the same letter from Mr. Savage that apparently the member opposite did, or if I did I have not yet seen it.

As soon as I do have access to the letter, I will certainly contact the Manitoba Society of Seniors and respond. Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, maybe the minis ter has not had a chance to get the letter because it is dated April 4, 2001, but I will table the letter. The letter was sent to the attent ion of the Honourable Diane McGifford, Minis ter for Senio rs, here at 450 Broadway. Mr.

Speaker, as a follow up to the Minis ter responsible for Seniors, one of the things that has been made available to other groups through the Department of Education, I believe it is, or possibly through Government Services was the availability of computers for the use of non profit organizations and charity organizations. I wonder whether that avenue has been explored by the minis ter or any one of the three mini sters as to helping the MSOS with some of their problems. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Speaker, I cannot really speak for the Minis ter of Government Services (Mr. Ashton) or the Minis ter of Education (Mr.

Caldwell). I can assure the member opposite that I have personally received no requests for

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 81 computers. Since I have received no requests, L of course, have not tried to work with other departments to see if there are requests. I do not send out memos saying are there requests for computers. I wait till someone comes to me. Mr. Speaker: Order. Time for Oral Questions has expired. Speaker's Ruling Mr. Speaker: I have a ruling for the House. Following the prayer on May 1, 2001, the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik) rose on a matter of privilege and moved "THAT the Minis ter of Health (Mr.

Chomiak) did break the privileges of all members by misleading the House when he said, and I quote: 'When we announ ced an agreement in principle to purchase the Pan Am Centre , it was to purchase the building, the equipment and the surgical suites.' (April 11, page 404, Hansard).

Both in this House on April 11 , 2001, and in his press release of April 2, 2001, when he announced the agreement in principle to purchase the Pan Am Centre , the min ister failed to inform members of this House that he was paying $700,000 to purchase an on-going business; and that this matter be ref erred to the Committee on Privileges and Elections for the committee's consid eration ." In speaking to the matter, the honoura ble Member for Lac du Bonnet contended that the minis ter had indi cated one set of facts on the record in the House which in the member's view was contrary to information provided by documents released outside of the House.

The honourable Minis ter of Health (Mr. Chomi ak), the honoura ble Official Opposition House Leader (Mr. Laurendeau), the honourab le Government House Leader (Mr. Mackintosh) and the honourable Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) offered advice to the Chair on this matter. The Deputy Speaker took the matter under advisement. I thank all members for their cont ributions to the matter raised. There are two conditions that must be satisfied in order for the matter raised to be considered a prima facie case of privilege.

First, was the matter raised at the earliest opportunity, and, second, is there sufficient evidence of a prima facie case of privilege that would warrant putting the matter to the House. Regarding the first condition, the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet indi cated that he was raising the matter at the earliest opportunity after obtaining a copy of the documents that had been released outside of the House at 12 :30 p.m. on that day.

I am satisfied that the matter was raised at the earliest opportunity. * (1 4:30 ) Concerning the second condition of whether or not a prima facie case of privilege exists, there are a number of factors to consider. Joseph Maingot advises on page 24 1 of the Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, second edition, that "to allege that a member has misled the House is a matter of order rather than privilege." Maingot also states on the same page that "To allege that a member has deliberately misled the House is also a matter of order and is indeed unp arliamentary.

However deliberately misleading statements may be treated as cont empt." Speaker Phillips ruled on August 21, 19 86, that a member raising a matter of privilege which charges that anoth er member has deliberately misled the House or a committee must support his or her charge with proof of intent. The same standard of proof was applied in seven rulings on privilege delivered by Speaker Rocan and in nine rulings on privilege delivered by Speaker Dacquay.

Although the honoura ble member for Lac du Bonnet has contended that the comments of the honourable Minis ter of Health were at odds with information contained in the documents that were tabled, the honoura ble Member for Lac du Bonnet did not supply proof that the minis ter had intenti onally set out to deliberately mis lead the House. Also, according to Beauchesne 's Citation 494, it has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must be accepted.

16 82 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Additionally, the complaint raised by the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet does not fall within parliamentary privilege as defined by Maingot. As noted in Beauchesne's Citation 25, parliamentary privilege does not go much beyond the right of free speech in the House of Commons and the right of the member to discharge his duties in the House as a member of the House of Commons.

Maingot defines individual privileges of members as consisting of: freedom of speech, freedom from arrest in civil process, exemption from jury service and appearance as a witness, and freedom from obstruction and intim idation. The corporate or collective privileges of Parliament are defined as the power to punish for contempt, the right to regulate its own constitution, the right to regulate its own internal affairs free from interference, the right to discipline its own members, the right to institute inquiries and call for witnesses and the right to settle its own code of procedure.

Based on the authorities and precedents cited, I must respectfully rule that the matter raised by the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praz..nik) does not satisfy the criteria of a prima facie case of privilege and must rule the matter out of order as a matter of privilege. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I challenge your ruling. Mr. Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been challenged. * (15: 10 ) Voice Vote Mr. Speaker: All those in support of sustaining the ruling, say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr. Speaker: All those opposed, say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay.

Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the ruling of the Chair has been sustained. Formal Vote Mr. Laurendeau: Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: A recorded vote has been requested. Call in the members. The question before the House is shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained.

Division A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as fo llows: Yeas Aglugub, Al lan, Ashton, Asper, Barrett, Caldwell, Cerilli, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Friesen, Jennissen, Korzeniowski, Lath/in, Lemieux, Mackintosh, Maloway, Martindale, McGiff ord, Mihychuk, Nevakshonoff, Reid, Rondeau, Santos, Schellenberg, Selinger, Smith (Brandon West), Struthers, Wowchuk. Nays Cummings, Dacquay, Derkach, Driedger, Dyck, Enns, Faurschou, Helwer, Laurendeau, Loewen, Maguire, Mitchelson, Murray, Penner (Emerson), Penner (Steinbach), Pitura, Praznik, Reimer, Schuler, Smith (Fort Garry), Stef anson, Tweed.

Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Yeas 29; Nays 22. Mr. Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been sustained. Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Mr. Speaker, I was paired with the honourable Member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson). Had I not been, I would have voted with my side of the House. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I might have leave to revert to tabling of reports. Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement of the House to revert to tabling of reports? [Agreed]

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 83 Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review of the 2001 -2002 Depart mental Expenditure Estimates for Manitoba Health and the Addictions Foundation of Mani toba. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Boundary Trails Health Centre Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House this afternoon to mark a historic day for the communities of Winkler, Morden, Stanley and surrounding area.

We celebrated the opening of the Boundary Trails Health Centre, a $37-mill ion, 12 0 square foot, state-of -the-art facility. The new 94-bed hospital boasts a full slate of health services, including a 24-hour emergency department, observation unit, intensive care unit, ambulatory care clinic, rehabilitation assessment and services, medical unit, dialysis unit, community cancer program, surgical unit, obstetrics unit, same-day surgical suites, laboratory, cardiac stress testing and home care support services.

This beautiful facility is the result of over 20 years of work to realize a vision of having one health facility to serve Morden and Winkler an d the surrounding committees. A special thank you to Don Orchard, former MLA for Pembina and the former Minis ter of Health, who worked extremely hard to help make this project a reality. A thank you also goes to our now-Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik), former Minis ter of Health, and to my colleagues.

The new Boundary Trails Health Centre will provide the citizens of Pembina area with amenities and services that were previously not available and will greatly increase the enjoyment and quality of life for our citizens. I would like to congratulate everyone involved in making the dream become a reality, including the mayors, reeves and council members of the supporting communities. I would also like to wish the doctors, nurses and the staff of Boundary Trails Health Centre all the best as they start a new era in health care service in our region, bringing services closer to home. You ng Humanitarian Award Ms.

Lind a Asper (Riel): Monsieur le president, cinq jeunes filles du College Jeanne Sauve se sont meritees le Young Humanitarian Award remis par Ia Manitoba Teachers' Society. Tout au long de l'annee scolaire, elles se sont appliquees a informer leur pairs sur les dif ferentes causes humanitaire s et les probh!mes qui font rage dans le monde en formant le Comite de justice social.

Athena Kovacs, Renee Bamabe, Elizabeth Debicki, Allison Sexton et Marina Stewart ont ete recompensees par Ia Manitoba Teachers' Society qui leur a remis le prix de groupe des Young Humanitarian Awards lors d'une ceremonie qui a eu lieu le 3 mai au Theatre des enfants al a Fourche. Les cinq etudiantes ont organise des tables rondes durant lesquelles des invites sont venus parler de causes humanitaire s. Elles ont aussi organise un concert benefice pour les enfants affectes par Ia guerre. Felicitations a leur professeur, Helene Roy, qui les a guidees dans leur project.

Ayant empoche 10 00 $, les filles ont decide de donner 250 $ pour le comite de l'annee prochaine. Elles continueront de s'in teresser aux causes humanitaires a l'universite, inclu ant les droits des femmes, les mines an ti-person nelles, Ia discrimina tion et les enfants affectes par Ia guerre. Nous leur souhaitons bonne chance. Merci, Monsieur le president. Translation Mr. Speaker, jive young women from College Jeanne Sauve have earned the Manitoba Teachers' Society's Young Humanitarian Aw ard.

Throughout the school year, they have been involved in inf orming their peers about various humanitarian causes and problems that are raging in the world, by fo rming the Social Justice Committee. At hena Kovacs, Renee Barnabe, Elizabeth Debicki, Al lison Sexton and Marina Stewart have been recognized by the Manitoba Teachers'

16 84 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Society which gave them the Young Humanitarian Aw ards' group prize in a ceremony which took place on May 3 at Manitoba Theatre fo r Young People at the Forks. The jive students organized round tables during which guests came to speak about humanitarian causes. Th ey also organized a benefit concert fo r children aff ected by war. Congratulations to their teacher, Helene Roy, who guided them in their project. Having earned $1000, the girls decided to donate $250 fo r next year's committee.

Th ey will continue to be involved in humanitarian causes at university, including women's rights, landmines, discrimination and children affected by wars. We wish them good luck. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (15: 20) Louis Riel Historical Documents Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Monsieur le president, j'ai le plaisir de me lever aujourd'hui pour dire quelques mots sur une ceremonie qui a eu lieu au Centre du patrimoine samedi passe, le 12 mai. Cette ceremonie a celebre le retour des lettres et des documents de Louis Riel et de Ia Societe historique metisse des Archives provinciales du Manitoba au Centre du patrimoine.

Ces documents ont une valeur inestimable pour Ia communaute metisse du a leur significa tion historique. Parmi ces documents, il y a un journal de Louis Riel ecrit en 18 85 Iars de son emprisonnement a Regina, et une lettre a sa mere ecrite Ia veille de sa pendaison. La preservation de ces documents est necessair e pour se souvenir de cette

partie de notre histoire et des enormes sacrifices faites au nom de Ia liberte et de Ia formation de Ia province du Man itoba. Les documents de Louis Riel ont ete recuperes dans les annees 19 30. En 19 43, Ia Societe his torique metisse les a confies au gouvernement provincial. Durant Ia soixantaine d'annees qu'ils ont demeure aux Archives provinciales, ils ont fait !'objet de nombreux travaux de conservation et de preservation.

Aujourd'hui les originaux sont sous Ia protection du Centre du patrimoine, mais les Archives provinciales ont egalement garde une copie des documents sur micofilm, qui sera mise a Ia disposition du public. Au Manitoba, nous sommes tiers de notre hi stoire et tiers des grands personnages comme Louis Riel qui ont tant contribue a leur patrimoine et a notre culture. C'etait approprie que le transfert de ces documents au Centre du patrimoine corresponde a Ia Fete du Manitoba.

Louis Riel, fondateur de notre province, est reconnu a travers ce pays pour ses efforts d'assurer les droits fondamentaux de Ia popula tion metisse. J'aimerais aussi prendre cette occasion pour remercier le mini stre de Culture, Patrimoine et Tourisme, M. Ron Lemieux, d'avoir tant travaille sur ce projet. Je sais que le minis tre reconnait bien !'importance de ces documents pour Ia population metisse et je le felicite de les avoir retournes au public. Merci, Monsieur le president. Translation Mr.

Speaker, I have the pleasure of rising today to scy a fe w words about a ceremony which took place at the Centre du patrimoine on Saturday, Mcy 12. This ceremony celebrated the return of the Louis Riel and the Societe historique metisse documents and letters from the provincial archives of Manitoba to the Centre du patrimoine. These documents are of inestimable value to the Metis community because of their historical significance. Among these documents there is a diary of Louis Riel, written in 1885 during his imprisonment in Regina, and a letter to his mother written the dey bef ore his hanging.

The preservation of these documents is necessary to our recollection of this part of our history and of the enorm ous sacrifices made in the name of freedom and of the fo rmation of the province of Manitoba. Louis Riel's documents were salvaged during the 1930s. In 1943 the Societe historique metisse entrusted them to the provincial government. During the approximately 60 years that they were housed at the provincial archives,

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 85 they received a great deal of conservation and preservation treatment. Today, the originals are under the protection of the Centre du patrimoine but the provincial archives also have kept a copy of these documents on microfilm which will be made available to the public. In Manitoba, we are proud of our history and of the great figures like Louis Riel who contributed so much to our heritage and our culture. It was appropriate that the transfe r of these documents to the Centre du patrimoine corresponded with Manitoba Day.

Louis Riel, the fo under of our province, is recognized throughout this country fo r his efforts to ensure the fu ndamental rights of the Metis population. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism, Mr. Ron Lemieux, fo r having worked so hard on this project. I know that the minister well recognizes the importance of these documents fo r the Metis population and I congratulate him fo r having returned them to the public. Thank you Mr. Speaker. World Literacy Day Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Today, Mr.

Speaker, I rise to discuss and talk about World Literacy Day which will be held September 8 this year. As we all know, literacy affects health and is a direct relation to poor health, it affects full employment and ability to hold and maintain good employment, and it also stops people from becoming full participants in society. Literacy also perpetuates over the years. I would like to congratulate the volunteer teachers working in this area and also the people who are improving their studies in this area. Literacy Partners of Manitoba and many other groups are planning activities on September 8 this year.

The weekend will be comprised of many activities to promote literacy and to raise awareness of the effects of illiteracy. I am working with the MLA of St. James and the staff and students of Stevenson- Britannia adult learning centre to hold a barbecue with people donating money and school supplies for students and literacy programs in the St. James area. These books will be provided for family literacy. Children's books will be provided for families literacy, and other books will be provided to the schools and libraries for these programs.

I hereby challenge all MLAs on all sides of the House to get involved in this event and leave a legacy of literate participating people in Manitoba. Literacy does make a difference. I urge everyone to get involved and improve the literacy levels of all Manitoba ns. Thank you. Boundary Trails Health Centre Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, several members from both sides of the Chamber had the privilege this past week to participate in the official opening of the Boun dary Trails Health Centre near the communities of Winkler, Morden.

A member from the Opposition has already reported on this issue, but it is important enough to have anoth er report. I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, that I taught school in southern Manitoba and identify with the region and the people very well. In fact, eight years I have taught in southern Manitoba. This brand-new, state-of-the-art health care facility replaces the hospital in each community.

By combining the services operating in two communities into one facility, the Boundary Trails Health Centre will be better equipped to officially deal with the health concerns of patients closer to their home communities. The completion of projects like the Boundary Trails Health Centre is an indi cation of our Government's commitment to ensuring that a high standard of accessible health care is available to all rural Manitoba ns. We thank all the stakeholders at the former hospitals in Winkler and Morden for their good work over the years.

We know they will continue their caring work in the future for people of their communities. Mr. Speaker, I just want to point out my family, over the years, had used the Morden facilities. Another example of this commitment is the completed renovation of the two sites of the Parkland community health resource centre at Ethelbert and Pine River. This project reflects a join ed ef fort and shared costs between our

16 86 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 Government and the communities. Centres like those at Ethelbert and Pine River provide cost effective, community-based health services that help people stay healthy rather than focussing solely on treating illness. Our Government remains committed to providing an efficient, equitable health care sys tem to all Manitoba ns. Thank you. *( 1 5: 30) House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Consents, Mr. Speaker, first off, before we go into Supply.

Would you see if there is consent of the House to vary the consi deration of Estimates by moving in the Chamber the Estimates of the Civil Service Commission to follow the Estimates of Consumer and Corporate Affairs? That is to apply permanently. Mr. Speaker: Is there una nimous consent of the House to vary the sequence of consideration of Estimates by moving in the Chamber the Estimates of the Civil Service Commission to follow the Estimates of the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs? This change is to apply permanen tly. Is there unan imous consent? [Agreed ] Mr. Mackintosh: Mr.

Speaker, would you please canvass the House to see if there is unanimous consent to change the sequence of Estimates in Room 254 so that Health will follow Conserva tion, and that the Estimates for Family Services and Healthy Child Manitoba will follow Health? All remaining departments from 254 are to be moved to the Chamber to follow the Civil Service Commission. That is to apply permanentl y. Mr.

Speaker: Is there una nimous consent to change the sequence of Estimates consider ation for Room 254 so that the Estimates for the Department of Health will follow the Estimates of the Department of Conservation and that the Estimates for the Department of Family Service and Healthy Child Manitoba will follow the Estimates for the Department of Health. All remaining departments from committee Room 254 are to be moved into the Chamber to follow the Estimates of the Civil Service Commission. This change is to apply permanently. Is there agreement? [Agreed} Mr.

Mackintosh: Would you also canvass the House to see if there is una nimous consent to move the Estimates for the Legislative Assembly to the Chamber to be ahead of Executive Council in the sequence? That change is to apply permanently. Mr. Speaker: Is there unanimous consent to move the Estimates for the Legislative Assembly to the Chamber to be ahead of Executive Council in the sequence? This change is to apply permanently. Is there una nimous consent? {Agreed} Mr. Mackintosh: Would you canvass the House to determine if there is leave to waive private members' hour today? Mr.

Speaker: Is it the will of the House to waive private members' hour for today? [Agreed} Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce that the Sta nding Committee on the Rules of the House will meet this evening at 6:30 p.m. in order to consider various rule change s. I move, seconded by the Minis ter for Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: I have not called Orders of the Day yet.

It has been ann ounced that the Stand ing Committee on Rules of the House will meet this evening, at 6:30 p.m., in order to consider various rule change s. Committee Changes Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina) : I move, seconded by the honourable member for Emerson (Mr. Jack Penner), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Rules be amended as follows: Russell for Carman . Motion agreed to.

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 87 ORDERS OF THE DAY Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I move, seconded by the Minis ter of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty. Motion agreed to. * (15 :50) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concur rent Sections) CONSERVATION Mr. Chairperson (Harry Schellenberg): Good afternoon. Wiii the

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 please come to order. This afternoon this

section of the Commit tee of Supply wiii resume consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Conservation. It was previously agreed by this commit tee to have a global discussion on the entire department and once all questioning is c?m pleted the committee would th�n pass all I.m.es and resolutions. We are on lme 1. Admtms tration and Fi nance (

b) Executive Support

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $458,800. Shall the item pass? Mr. Larry Magu ire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Chairman, I just have a couple of questions here in regard to where we left off the last time we were in Esti mates. I had asked the minis ter a question in regard to the Tilston oil battery, and I wonder if the minis ter has a reply on that. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Could I ask the Member for Arthur-Virden to refresh my memory a little bit? I have to be honest with you; I just do not remember the last question we covered. Mr.

Maguire: It was just in regard to the battery, the hydrogen sulphide situation there . . I had asked the minis ter whether or not hts department had looked at or felt that �he companies involved had looked at exhaustmg absolutely all of the alternative processes to reduce the product. I realize that the group called GASPE has taken the concern to the point where they feel they have to go to court to try to get some more of their concerns dealt with.

I am wondering if the minis ter can indi cate to me whether he feels that all alternative processes to reduce the amount ?f hydrogen escaping from the hydrogen sulp�tde o � rather escaping from this 88 battery, mcludmg the option of burning all of the propane in the treater and all the gases in the incin erator, you know, getting a hotter flame to bum off mo �e of the gases that are not being burnt or .seemmgly .not being burnt at this time. I wonder tf he could JUSt give me a clarification on whether he feels all of those options have been addressed or whether they are in fact viable options. Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Chair, I can indica te to the member that, when I became Minis ter of Conservation a year and a half ago now, this concern that was expressed by people living around the battery area apparently had been an issue for quite some time. I believe the issue first broke around 19 97. Since then, from 19 97, from what I could gather from reading the file, the previous government apparently had done their study and review, and I think even the company itself had committed to looking at new technology and so forth.

So, when I got to be minis ter in the fall of '99, it was not long after that that I was in a meeting face to face with some of these concerned residents from that area, and as I said earlier in my responses last week, yes, I was quite moved by the amount of emotion that was displayed by the residents. I truly believe that those feelings were real, and I felt sorry for them. So, from that, I talked with staff of course to see if that was the farthest we could go in terms of looking for a solution. Again, I was told by my staff that there had been several reviews done.

Then it was not long after that that we got together with the Department of Health, and we again launched another review. This time it was to be a medical review to see whether in fact the battery had caused these people to display the symptoms, I guess, they were showing. So the study was completed, and again some things were acknowledged. That was that some

16 88 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 200 1 days the em1sstons had apparently exceeded guidelines, but those periods of time were apparently so infrequent. For the most part the emissions were below the guidelines. As a result, even though they were causing a lot of discomfort and inconvenience, the reporting in, as did other previous studies, did indica te that they could not really link these emissions directly to the way the people were feeling. Of course after that study was completed, the medical officer met with the people again, and again there was no resolution.

Just to make sure that we had tried everything that we could think of, we asked the Clean Environment Commission to see whether they could maybe look at the dispute with a view to settling it through a series of meetings. Unfortunate ly, that was not possible .. The people did not agree to that, and so it was at that point that I made a decision that we probably had done the best we could under the circumstances. It was during that time as well that the group decided to file a claim in court.

Now the issue is before the court, and as I said earlier to the member, I am not sure as to how far I should go in terms of discussing that issue, but that is what I know for sure. We will also continue to work with the company, because there are two sides to this story here, to ensure that they look at every reasonable, new, innovative measure that they can implement to allevia te the situation around there. So that is what we have done. I want to visit the Tilston area.

One of the owners of the company had invited me to go there, and I thought it would be a good idea for myself to go there and just get the lay of the land as it were. I am going to go there, but I think I am going to go there on my own without the company or the residents, you know, just go there and have a look around. I will get our staff to take me around and explain things to me and so forth. Mr. Maguire: I would appreciate that. I think that that would be a very worthwhile opportunity.

I have a couple of other questions in regard to issues, but my colleagues to my right here have a few quick questions as well and so I pass it over to the member from Portage at this time. Mr.

David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): would like to ask the minis ter a question in regard to the conversation that I had this morning with Chief Dennis Meeches of the Long Plain First Nations band in Portage Ia Prairie who expressed grave concern about the problems that he is experiencing because of surface water runoff from other jurisdictions that ultimately pass through Long Plain Reserve holdings and have caused significa nt damage to the roads.

He is concerned that his existing support levels will not cover all of the damage that has been incurred and, quite frankly, is gravely concerned about the ongoing services, getting buses around and picking the kids up and getting them to school. * (16 :00) I am certain the minis ter is familiar with the Sandy Bay situation, but it is just to Dennis Meeches' and the council's credit as well as to those in the admini stration that have gotten the school kids to school. But they are facing signif icant challenges because of the damage that has been incurred.

I am wanting to ask the minis ter what advice I might pass on to Chief Meeches in this regard. Mr. Lathlin: Let me say to the member that two or three years ago, or even further back, I never thought I would live to see a day when every time there was a threat of snow or rainfall that I would end up really having to worry about it because, knowing the condition that exists in the south part of our province, it just really causes me to worry whenever I see dark clouds or even some rain. I imagine, if I was a farmer, I would probably be freaking out every day.

Some time last week I went on an aerial tour of the W estbourne area. We had a chance to fly over the Por tage Diversion. Whoever said that it was not at capacity must have been talking about another channel because there is a maximum capacity. Then, of course, the member knows what they call the fail-safe level, I think practically all sides of the channel all the way

May 14 , 200 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 89 into Lake Manitoba one would think that they had that saf e level attached to it, but the water was everywhere in the W estboume area. On our way back, we had a chance to fly over where the channel starts from the Assiniboine River in the Portage Ia Prairie area, and I was looking at all this water that was backing up. Short of going in there to dig another great big ditch, and where I do not know because it seemed to me that the whole area is saturated with water. It does not matter where you go, you have water.

So my advice to the member would be that, when the river levels have gone down somewhat, we work with the First Nations community of Long Plain. It would be EMO that would be taking the lead role, if it goes there to investigate, to determine the degree of damage and then to work with the Department of Indian Aff airs to see if any remedial action is needed, especially on the reconstruction of roads, and also to try to cover whatever losses the Long Plain Fi rst Nation might have incurred. So that would be my advice to the member.

We are, inci dentally, giving the same advice to other people who we come across with. I know at a meeting earlier today that issue was brought to my attention by some people from Dakota Tipi. They also advised me that the whole ground is just saturated with water. It does not matter where you go, there is water everywhere. So I thank the member for raising that issue. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Last December, the minis ter indica ted that he was going to go back to The Pas to personally inspect the pump station at Knapp Dam and to look and see what the situation was there.

I would ask the minis ter what you found on your inspection, what you have done since, and what the extra cost of fixing the problem was. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairperson, I know the member has taken a very keen interest on this file. Every time he goes up there I try to bump into him so I can show him, extend to him some hospitality. He and I were there together for the Trapper's Festival. I know that he has been up there subsequently looking at that situation that he was talking about. The information as I have it now says that a new station will be operational for the 200 1 spring runoff.

Mind you, like, now there is not all that much water up north, as the member probably knows. If anything, we were fighting forest fires already two weekends ago. In any event, the pump station is being operationalized later on in the spring. The deficiencies in the construction part have been remedied, as I understand it. When I visited the site, the contract engineer was there. Our staff were there. I was advised that the problem was mainly a design one and that was that there was some seepage between the intake channels. That has since been fixed.

Of course, the extra costs that we are incurring on this project, we are going to be looking to get, how do I say it, recover those costs from the contract itself, from the contractor. The extra costs, I am told, of the remedial work including the engineering portion will be about $225,000. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, the underside of the pump station, there was some leakage under the pump station, and that is what you mean by the leakage between channels. I would ask you just to confirm that and also would ask whether the remedial work was tendered. Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Chair, I am advised that the work was tendered, and, yes, I would like to confirm for the member that the problem area was indeed between the two intake channels. Mr. Gerrard: So, what you are essentially confirming is what I was told when I was up there initially in the fall, that the water was going undernea th the pump house or the dam, was correct. Mr. Lathlin: That is correct. Mr. Maguire: I would be prepared to pass a few lines at this time, Mr. Chairman.

16 90 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 2001 Mr. Chairperson: We will do page 42, 1. Adminis tration and Fi nance (

b) Executive Support

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $458, 800-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $12 3,800-pass. 1. (

c) Corporate Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benef its $6 13 ,700-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $720,900-pass. 1. (

d) Financial Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,426,200-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $370,900-pass. 1. (

e) Human Resource Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Be nefits $89 1 ,800. Shall the line pass? Mr. Maguire: I know we have been around this a little bit before, but the minis ter had indi cated previously, when I was asking to go back to staffing just for moment, that he was making new announcements of regional officers. I know they are out. He has published those. I understand there were some new announcements this morning in regard to some more of the regional staff. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairperson, I am trying to organize some information here that contained some of the answers to the questions that the two members had asked previously.

For example, I have appointments to director positions here. I would like to table that. I believe there was a question. This might have been for the Member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler). The question was why the human radiation unit in the Univ ersity of Bristol was ignored. Why was that selectively left out? So we have the answer for that. * (16:10 ) The other question might have been asked by the Member for Portage (Mr. Faurschou), and that is the Portage diversion is being operated to minimize damages in the three areas, the city of Winnipeg, Assiniboine River east of Portage Ia Prairie and Lake Manitoba.

Then we have the responses here. I can pass those out as well. I believe another question had to do with a listing of applications for a permit to construct manure storage. So we have a list of those here as well, if I could table that. If you want, I have extra copies here I can give to the members as well. Mr. Chairperson, I believe that is what the member was about to ask, the movement of staff, the appointments and so forth. Mr. Maguire: If I could just have a moment We had talked the first or second day of Estimates in Conservation. I had asked the mini ster in regard to his staff at his constituency office.

You indica ted that you had two persons there, I believe. I wonder if he could just tell me who they were, again. Mr. Lathlin: In my constituency office, I have one person. Of course, I think the member knows, the constituency office, that budget is covered off by the member's allowance. So I have one person. Mr. Maguire: Could the minis ter give me that person's name? Mr. Lathlin: Donna Nabess. Mr. Maguire: What other staff would the minis ter have in his office in his constituency? Mr. Lathlin: That is the only person that I have in my constituency office. There is only one person hired for that job.

The only other politica l staff that I have is in Winnipeg here in my office. I think I explained that before too. I have one person as a special assistant and I have one person as an executive assistant. So I have two here in Winnipeg and I have a constituency assistant in The Pas. Mr. Maguire: Just for the record, could the minis ter indi cate who those two staff persons are in his office here in Winnipeg? Mr. Lathlin: Glen Holmes and one James Martin. Mr. Maguire: Can the minis ter indica te to me if he has other staff that help him with work in his constituency. I assume that Ms.

Nabess' title is executive assistant, or I do not know what he calls this- An Honourable Member: Constituency assistant. Mr. Maguire: Constituency assistant would be perhaps a nomenclature that he would use for

May 14 , 2001 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 91 that area. I am just wondering if he has any other staff there as well. Mr. Lathlin: The only other, actually two people, there is a northern Conservation advisor and one admin support person working out of the former Department of Highways' office, I guess. Those are departmental staff. They would not be like Donna Nabess or James Martin or Glen Holmes. The northern resource development officer position that I have in The Pas reports to the deputy min ister on a term basis.

He works out of the northern resource development of fice at the Otineka Mall that is situated on the reserve. With him he has an admini strative support person. Mr. Maguire: This would be like a senior assistant in that area. Mr. Lathlin: I do not know if I regard him as a senior assistant. I look at his job as a northern Conservation advisor to the min ister's office. Mr. Maguire: Can the minis ter indica te to me the name of the individ ual who holds this position? Mr. Lathlin: The person's name is Rod McKenzie and the support person is Candiena Marks. Mr.

Maguire: I just wonder, without a long process, but if the minis ter could just indica te what their two roles are in that area. He has in dicated development for northern resources. I wonder if he could elaborate on that. Mr. Lathlin: Well, the northern conservation advisor works with actually people from across Manitoba. His work thus far has been mainly a lot of liaison work. He does a lot of liaison work with our regional office in The Pas, Thompson and even some offices here in Winnipeg in the south. He works with the northern communities.

We also have him do a lot of facilitating and advising regarding northern economic development issues. We have him working with groups in co-management. For example, resource management. He works with Moose Lake loggers, works with Tolko. Even Tembec, sometimes he will come to meetings there. So he does a lot of liaison work between our office and the various stakeholders. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Chairman, I would be prepared to pass that line. * (1 6:20) Mr. Chairperson: 12 .1. Adminis tration and Finance (

e) Human Resource Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $89 1, 800-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 05,400-pass. l. (

t) Information Systems Technology

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,090,700- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $393,30 0-pass. 2. Conservation Support Services (

a) Computer Graphics

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $504,800-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $50,900-pass. 2.(

b) Survey Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,59 6, 1 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $463,300-pass;

(3) Less: Recoverable from other appropriations ($ 1 ,570, 700}-pass. 2.(

c) Distribution Centre

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $388 ,200-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $326 ,900-pass;

(3) Less: Recoverable from other appropriations ($95,000}-pass. Resolution 12 .2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Maje sty a sum not exceeding $1 ,664,500 for Conservation, Conservation Support Services, for the fisca l year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. Mr. Chairperson: We will go to 12 .3. Regional Operations (

a) Headquarters Operations

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $3,2 1 9,200- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $2,7 17 ,800-pass;

(3) Problem Wildlif e Control $240,600-pass. 3 .(

b) Northwest Region

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,378, 500-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $773 ,400-pass. 3. (

c) Northeast Region

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,492,7 00-pass.

I6 92 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May I4 , 200I Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Chair, if we were to do so by unanimous consent, would you be of the understanding we could just pass all the resolutions without reading line by line today, seeing as we are going to change the rule tonight. Mr. Chairperson: I would like to inform the Member for St. Norbert that cannot be done. We have to pass them line by line. An Honourable Member: It is the last night for you to do it, so enjoy it. An Honourable Member: It is the only thing we cannot do by leave, I think. Mr. Chairperson: I2 .3 .(

c) Northeast Region

(2) Other Expenditures $97 I ,200-pass. 3.(

d) Central Region (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $3,845,5 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $I, 763, 900-pass. 3. (

e) Eastern Region (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $3,437, 800-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $969,5 00-pass. 3. (

t) Western Region (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $5,2 I 6,700-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $I, 775, 700-pass. 3. (

g) Red River Region (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $3,604,900-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $458, I 00-pass. 3. (

h) Fire Program (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $4,839,3 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $7 ,886,5 00-pass. Resolution I2 .3 : RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $46,59I ,300 for Conservation, Regional Operations, for the fiscal year ending the 3I st day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. I2 .4. Conservation Programs (

a) Divis ional Adminis tration ( 1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $520,500-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $I ,803 ,400-pass. 4.(

b) Water Management (

I) Admini stration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $3 I2,900- pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $9 I6 , I 00-pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $25,000-pass. 4.( b)

(2) Water Licensing (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $697, 600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $45,800-pass. 4.( b)

(3) Water Planning and Development (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $I ,072, I 00. * (16: 30) Mr. Laurendeau: Mr. Chair, I had asked the minist er a number of questions about tloodproofing the other day and whether the constituents of Winni peg would be eligible to receive some of the dollars back which they had expended, but they were being held ransom at this time by the City because they do not have their dikes built. I was wondering if the min ister could give me any further information on that question. [interjecti on} This is money that is already commit ted. We are just waiting for it. Mr. Chairperson: We will continue with item I2 .4. Conservation Programs (

b) Water Management

(3) Water Planning and Development (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $I ,072, I 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $87 ,900--pass. 4.( b)

(4) Surface Water Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $82 I ,200-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $293,600-pass; (

c) Canada-Manitoba Agreement for Water Quantity Surveys $587,0 00-pass. 4.( b)

(5) Groundwater Mana gement (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $853, I 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $6 I7 ,200-pass. 4.(b)

(6) Water Quality Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $433 ,400-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $266,3 00-pass. 4.( b)

(7) Waterway Maintenance 3,960,800- pass. We will go on to 4.(

c) Parks and Natural Areas (

I) Adminis tration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits. Excuse me, a question here. Mr. Lathlin: I know the Member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) asked that question, I believe, last week. I think we made a commitment that

May 14 , 2001 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 93 we would try to find out the current status of that file. Apparently, we still do not have an answer. We are continuing to work with the City of Winnipeg. Our director of Water Resources is continuing discussions with the City of Winnipeg. I am going to make a commitment to the Member for St. Norbert that, as soon as we are able to determine where things are at, we will endeavour to give him a written response. Mr. Laurendeau: Mr.

Chair, through you to the mmtster, my only concern is that the floodproofing monies may expire at the end of the month prior to them getting approval from the City or whether the City has it. That is the concern that they have, is that something is going to expire, and they will be left out in the cold. So, as long as I have got a comm itment that they will not be left out in the cold if something does come to an end or one of the funding agreements comes to an end, that they are not left out in the end without having the ability to do this, that is all I am seeking right now, is a definition on that time frame.

Mr. Lathlin: Yes, I thank the member for raising that. We are determined to resolve that issue bef ore the end of the month so that we do not run into the danger of missing the deadline. We are working on a basis that we are going to resolve this issue before the end of the month. Mr. Laurendeau: Thank you very much, Mr. Minis ter. Mr. Chairperson: Item 12 .4. Conservation Programs (

c) Parks and Natural Areas ( 1) Adminis tration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $355 ,400-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $4 19,1 00-pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $191 ,200- pass. 4.( c)

(2) Planning and Development (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $862,3 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $1 94,600-pass. 4.( c)

(3) Park Districts (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $460,600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $49,300. 4.( c)

(4) Park Operations and Maintenance (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 0,635 ,600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $4,453 ,600-pass. 4.( c)

(5) Support Services (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $250,000-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $294,000-pass. 4.(

d) Climate Change

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $954, 1 00-pass. Mr. Maguire: Just a short question in regard to the salaries and benefits of this, would this include the committee that has now been put out in charge of climate change, and are there reimbursements, salaries for the chair and vice chair? I assume that the member of the Clean Environment Commission, Mr. Duguid, would be paid under that as part of his role. Can the minis ter indi cate whether there are salaries involved, and what they are, if there are salaries for the members of the commit tee, including the chair? Mr.

Lathlin: The answer to the member's question is, no, these numbers that you see here are strictly departmental numbers. If we are talking about the Clean Environment Commis sion, that is separate altogether. Mr. Maguire: No, I was referring to the new climate change committee, chaired by Mr. Axworthy, that the minis ter has announced. Mr. Lathlin: Actually, really, the Clima te Change Action Fund I believe is what the member is referring to. That activity is funded partially by Clean Environment Commission. It is also funded from the Sustainable Develop ment Innovations Fund. Mr.

Chairperson: We will continue with the next line. 4. Conservation Programs (

d) Climate Change

(2) Other Expenditures $395,800. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Chairman, I believe we have to pass line ( d)(

l) first. Mr. Chairperson: We did pass the line. Mr. Maguire: You did. Okay. * (1 6:40)

16 94 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 2001 Mr. Chairperson: I will read line 12. 4.( d)( l) , which was previously passed, Climate Change (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $954, I 00- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $395,800 -pass;

(3) Grant Assistance $I7 , I 00-pass. 4.(

e) Forestry

(1) Adminis tration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $399,5 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $454,1 00-pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $15 3,400-pass. 4.( e)

(2) Forest Resources Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $927,400-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $94 0,1 00-pass. 4.( e)

(3) Forest Health and Ecology (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,846,000- pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $2,637 ,200-pass. 4.(e)

(4) Forest Economics and Marketing (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $366,5 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $50, 700-pass. 4.( e)

(5) Forest Regeneration Stock $1 ,4 11 ,900-pass. 4.(e)

(6) Pineland Forestry Nursery. 4.(

f) Fi sheries

(1) Adminis tration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 24,400-pass. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Chairman, a quick question on the Pinela nd Forestry Nursery, there is no allotment. That, I assume, is in the Expenditure Estimates later. We do not pass anything there? Or is it passed later? Mr. Chairperson: In the last line there, Pinela nd Forestry Nursery, there is no funding. It operates as a special operating agency, but there is no funding. Refer to page 15 7. You will get the information that you want for Pineland Forestry Nursery. Mr. Maguire: Thank you, Mr.

Chairperson, yes, and I have been through that and I just wondered how it was noted in the Estimates as we go through. Thank you, you have clarified that. Mr. Chairperson: Item 4.(f)( l )(

a) has been passed. We will go on to 4.( f)( l )(

b) Other Expenditures $202,200-pass. 4.( f)

(2) Fish Culture (

a) Salaries and Employee Benef its $72 1 ,600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $279,900-pass. 4.(f)

(3) Fi sheries Habitat Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $383 ,000-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $64, 700-pass. 4.(f)

(4) Sport and Commercia l Fishing Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $62 1 ,500-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $74,600-pass. 4.(f)

(5) Northern Fi shermen's Freight Assistance $4 1 0,000-pass. 4.( f)

(6) Fisheries Enhancement Initia tive $350,000-pass. 4.(

g) Wildlif e (

I) Admini stration (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $396,8 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $469,400-pass; (

c) Grant Assi stance $207,000-pass. 4.( g)

(2) Game and Fur Management (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $592,3 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $276,900-pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $89,900-pass. 4.( g)

(3) Habitat and Land Mana gement (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $739,80 0-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $1 35,50 0-pass; (

c) Grant Assistance $645 ,000-pass. 4.(g)

(4) Bio diversity Conservation (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $335 ,900-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $97,700-pass. 4.( g)

(5) Canada-Manitoba Waterfowl Damage Prevention Agreement $348 ,400-pass; 4.( g)

(6) Wildlif e Habitat Enhancement Init iative $225, 000-pass; 4.(

h) Terrestrial Quality Management

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $280,000-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $29, I 00-pass. 4.0) Pollution Prevention (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $540,200-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $64,3 00-pass.

May 14 , 2001 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 95 4.(

k) Lands

(1) Crown Lands Operations (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $8 13,1 00-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $1 ,273 ,200-pass. 4.(k)

(2) Crown Lands Registry (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $237,600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $1 1 9,000-pass. 4.( k)

(3) Remote Sensing (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $650,200-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $121 ,400-pass. I will read this line, (3)(c), into the record: Less: Recoverable from other appropriations ($23,700). * (1 6:50) 4.(k)

(4) Land Mapping Services (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $5 11 ,300-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $90,200-pass. 4.(

m) Habit at Enhancement Fund $50, 000- pass. 4.(

n) Special Conservation and Endangered Species Fund $432, 10 0. Resolution 12 .4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $55,0 1 2,900 for Conservation, Conservation Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. 5. Environmental Stewardship (

a) Divis ional Adminis tration

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $15 1,1 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $225, 800-pass;

(3) Grant Assistance $1 1 0,900- pass. 5.(

b) Sustainab le Resource Management

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,17 2,000- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 ,11 5,000-pass;

(3) Grant Assistance $1 0,200-pass. 5.(

c) Environmental Assessment and Licensing ( 1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,079,300-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $12 5,400-pass. 5.(

d) Aboriginal Relations

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $12 5,1 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $50,000-pass. Resolution 12 .5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $4, 16 4,800 for Conserva tion, Environmental Stewardship, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. 6. Clean Environment Commission (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $261, 800-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $274,3 00-pass. Resolution 12 .6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $536, 10 0 for Conservation, Clean Environment Commission, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 12 .7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,1 45,900 for Conservation, International Institute for Sustainable Development, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. 8. Infrastructure and Minor Capital Projects (

a) Equipment $460,600-pass; (

b) Water Projects 5,065 ,400-pass; (

c) Park Facilities $4, 13 9,3 00-pass .. Resolution 12 .8: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,665,300 for Conservation, Infrastructure and Minor Capital Projects, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 12 .9: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,769,900 for Conservation, Amortization of Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to.

16 96 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 14 , 2001 Item 12 .10 Flood Proofing Programs, Capital Grants $5,5 07,90(}-pass; Infrastructure $14 ,994,40(}-pass. Resolution 12 .10 : RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $20,502,300 for Conserva tion, Flood Proofing Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31s t day of March, 2002. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the statement of the Department of Conservation is item l. (

a) Mini ster's Salary $28, I 00. At this point we request that the minis ter's staff leave the table for the consideration of this item . We will move on to

section 12 .1. Adminis tration and Fin ance (

a) Mini ster's Salary $28, 10 0. Shall the line pass? Mr. Maguire: Several things have been brought to our attention throughout the whole process of Estimates in regard to Conservation and some of the information that the minis ter has given us and some of the actions that have taken place throughout the past year. He has indica ted on a number of occasions that there- Mr. Chairperson: Just a bit quieter so I can hear the member speak. Thank you. Mr. Maguire: I know that members of the Government are concerned about the fact that there are 60 vacancies in the Department of Conservation.

I do not know whether they are waiting for the election to be over in B.C. on Wednesday or not to watch the flow coming east. Mr. Chairman, there are a number of things that have been brought to our attention or my attention or the minis ter's throughout the year and that members on our side of the House are concerned about. A number of those issues deal with these vacancies. A number of them deal with attendance at meetings. A number of them are around the concerns about the amalgamation of the Environment and Natural Resources departments.

With that, I would like to put forth a motion on the minis ter's salary that states that:

WHEREAS there are currently 60 unfilled vacancies in the Department of Conservation which has resulted in diminished services to Manitobans; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Conservation has failed to achieve savings through the amalgamation of the former departments of Environment and Natural Resources; and

WHEREAS the Min ister of Conservation missed the majority of meetings while he was a member of the Treasury Board; and

WHEREAS the Min ister of Conservation because of a lack of attendance at Treasury Board meetings was asked to step down from that board; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Minis ter of Conservation's salary be donated toward infrastructure development aimed at ensuring the safety of Manitobans' drinking water. That would be seconded by the Member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings). * (1 7:00) Mr. Chairperson: Could I have your attention? Motion presented. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is in order. The debate may proceed. An Honourable Member: Question. Mr. Chairperson: The question before the committee is: Shall the motion moved by the Member for Arthur-Virden pass? Voice Vo te Mr. Chairperson: All those in favour, please say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea.

May 14 , 2001 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 16 97 Mr. Chairperson: All those opposed, please say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Chairperson: In my opinion, the Nays have it. Formal Vote Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): A recorded vote, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: Do you have support of another member? Mr. Laurendeau: I sure do. Mr. Chairperson: The Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan). A recorded vote has been requested. We will have a short recess and proceed to the Chamber for the recorded vote. The committee is recessed. The committee recessed at 5:03p.m. The committee resumed at 5:53 Mr.

Chairperson: Committee rise. AGRICULTURE AND FOOD * (15: 40) Madam Chairperson (Bonnie Korzeniowski): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now be considering the Estimates of the Department of Agriculture and Food. When we last met, the minis ter had just completed her opening remarks. Does the Official Opposition critic, the honoura ble Member for Emerson, have any opening comments? Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Yes, Madam Chairperson. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to appear before this committee today as critic for the Department of Agriculture. First of all, let me say that I want to congratulate the staff of the Department of Agriculture for the exemplary work that they have done during the past year.

I believe that the department, and the staff within the department, works as well as the admini strative component, the political compo nent of a government allows them to under whatever funding is provided to them and what direction is given to them. I think one must always recogniz e that, given those kind of parameters, the political process that is in place in this province, no matter which party rules, either restricts or encourages development in a given direction.

Having said that, I believe that we have seen, in the last two years, a very signifi cant change happen in agriculture, due to a number of reasons, not the least of which is political. The Americans have seen fit to virtually ignore their farm bill, their free

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
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