1970 Legislative Session: 1st Session, 29th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1970

Afternoon Sitting

[ Page 301 ]

The House met at 2 p.m.

BUDGET DEBATE

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Minister of Education.

HON. D.L. BROTHERS (Rossland-Trail): Mr. Speaker, as I take

my place in this debate today, I want to first of all express my

appreciation to the constituents of my area who have supported me for

the fifth time in electing me as their representative for the

Rossland-Trail riding.

During these years much has been accomplished in our area, and just

last year alone, for example, we had the opportunity of opening a new

Senior Citizens' Villa in Trail, which was sponsored jointly by the

Kiwanis Club and the Rotary Club. In November of this year, I

officiated at the opening of a new addition to the Castlegar Hospital,

which cost $2,600,000, and it was only two weeks ago that I had the

good fortune of representing my colleague, the Minister of Health

Services and Hospital Insurance, at the official opening of two new

wings onto the Trail Regional Hospital, which cost $2,500,000. At the

present time, we are busy reconstructing the road between Trail and

Castlegar and it is my hope that there will be another contract called

on this

section of highway this year.

However, not everything has been rosy in our district, because on

the night of April 23rd of last year, our City of Trail suffered a

major catastrophe in that there was a flash flood when the Trail Creek

overflowed its banks, and did a tremendous amount of damage to the

homes and to the citizens of Warfield and Trail. I flew to Trail the

following morning, and after assessing the damage I flew back to

Victoria here, and recommended to the Premier that this area be

declared as a disaster area, and that the disaster fund, which the

Premier had the foresight to set up in the last year's Legislature,

that this be activated. The Premier immediately agreed, and he set up a

committee consisting of Mr. Williston, Mr. Black and Mr. Wallace, the

Deputy Provincial Secretary. This committee then set up a local

advisory committee, which is headed up by Mr. R.G. Anderson, and at

this time I would like to express my personal thanks to Mr. Anderson

for the work that he did on this committee, and as well, very prominent

people from our area served on this advisory committee, it also

included the Mayor of Trail.

Assessors were immediately dispatched to Trail and they assessed the

damages which came to over $1,000,000, and it will cost the City of

Trail hundreds of thousands of dollars for the damages that Trail

itself suffered, and before this creek is relocated.

The Premier suggested immediately that we set up a formula in such

instances, that the Federal Government doesn't have a disaster fund,

and it should have one. He suggested that in a case of a disaster area

within the Province, that we set up a formula so that individuals in

businesses, local businesses could be immediately looked after, and

that the Provincial Government would assume 60 per cent of the cost if

the Federal Government would assume 40 per cent of the cost, and the

Premier said that we would put up the 60 per cent immediately that it

was assessed. We argued with the Federal Government for weeks and

months trying to get any kind of a commitment out of them. Finally they

agreed to put up $200,000 which was less than 40 per cent. The

Provincial Government put up $675,000 to assist the people of Trail in

this regard. However, the question of damages to Trail itself, and the

relocation of this creek still have to be argued out.

So that there was no question about it, I came back and spoke to the

Premier in his capacity as Minister of Finance, and he agreed, that for

the city and for relocation of the creek, that he would like to see a

formula devised with the Federal Government, and agreed to assume 37½

per cent if the Federal Government would put up 37½, and the local

community would only put up 25 per cent. We've been arguing now with

the Federal Government ever since that time to come up with some sort

of an answer. The Mayor of Trail and myself made a special trip to

Ottawa to see the Honourable Arthur Laing, and got no satisfactory

reply. We've been in correspondence with the Honourable Joe Green, and

no satisfactory reply. While all this was going on I noticed with a

great deal of interest that a Liberal Cabinet Minister from Manitoba,

namely the Honourable James Richardson, had considerable success in

having the Federal Government enter into a formula with the Province of

Manitoba to help Winnipeg out with flood problems.

I think, Mr. Leader of the Liberal party, that you better get busy

and start representing British Columbia, and that you get on the hot

line to Ottawa. If you want to help the City of Trail and our area,

you'll get on the line immediately to Ottawa and I call on the Federal

Government right now to come to the assistance of Trail and British

Columbia in this connection.

While I'm on my feet I would like to congratulate Mr. Sam Conkin of

our area, who was one of the spark plugs to get a group going called

the Kootenay Industrial Development Association, known locally as KIDA,

and this group has banded together to see if they can bring some

industry to our area. They have had great success in the West Kootenays

getting the municipalities together and the local citizens together,

and they have had great assistance and encouragement from the

Industrial Development, Trade and Commerce Department here in Victoria,

and thank you, Mr. Minister, and I'm hopeful that this group will meet

with success in the coming year.

During 1969, we opened the Keenleyside Dam on the Arrow Lakes and

held an official opening. Also, I've been working almost since I was

elected as a member of this Legislature to protect the recreational

area around Rossland, and it was only this year that the Minister of

Recreation has agreed to the establishment of the Nancy Greene Winter

Recreational Area, so that the loggers, the miners and the recreation

people in that area, the sports people, can all work together in

harmony, and I'm very proud of this accomplishment that this area will

be preserved for recreation purposes forever.

Now turning to education. I think that as we stand here on the

threshold of 1970, we can view the scene up to date and find that great

accomplishments have been achieved over the last two decades,

particularly in the decade of the 1960's. While all this has been going

on, however, the cost of education has been rising alarmingly, and

later on I'll discuss with you, Mr. Speaker, and members of the

Legislature, how these costs are rising and what steps we are taking,

trying to control them on behalf of the taxpayers of the Province, and

to bring them within his ability to pay.

Of course, part of our problem in the Department of Education is the

rapidly increasing school population with the influx of people into the

Province. They bring their children with them, and immediately the

parents call on us to find classroom space for them in new facilities

and new

[ Page 302 ]

schools. While all this has been going on we've had

inflationary pressures building up, both as to costs and as to wages,

and particularly in the cost of money.

Just for a comparison of school population and costs, I would like

to refer you to some statistics here, that in 1960-61 the budget for

education amounted to $73,000,000. In a period of ten years this has

now increased, and now it's $362,000,000, an increase of 400 per cent.

This is Provincial. In 1960, there were around 11,000 teachers in the

public school systems,

whereas in September 1969, there were almost

20,000 teachers, an increase of 68 per cent in the teaching force. In

1960 we had 316,000 pupils. Now we have 500,000 pupils, an increase of

58 per cent.

As a matter of fact, the cost of operating our schools is almost

reaching staggering proportions. Today, it costs to operate the public

schools in the Province, if you consider they are open 200 days of the

year, almost $1,600,000 a day,

whereas the cost in 1960 was $516,000 a

day, and in 1952, $175,000 a day. In other words, to operate the public

schools in the Province each day, is costing us three times as much as

1960, and ten times as much as in 1952.

Towards the end of 1969, as I said, we ran into great stresses and

strains in the educational field because of the rising costs,

particularly because of the rising costs of money, and as it was stated

in the Throne Speech, we suggested to the school boards of the Province

that while the cost of money was so high and there was no sign of it

coming down, that they curtail their construction programme to

essential classrooms only.

I would like to place before you a few of these statistics on cost

and construction. In the last four years we have authorized

$211,000,000 for school construction, which involved 4,504 classrooms

and libraries. Also, there were 214 gymnasium and activity rooms. While

some people will indicate that we did little or nothing last year in

the way of school construction, may I inform you, Mr. Speaker, and the

members of the House, that last year we authorized a record amount of

school construction in the Province, amounting to over $66,000,000.

Never such a record in our history. This involved 1,200 classrooms,

libraries and 68 gymnasium and activity rooms.

Since the middle of November, when we suggested to school boards

that they restrict some of this construction, we have authorized over

$4,000,000 of new construction, and right now as I talk, there are at

least six major schools under construction, and 453 classrooms being

built right today.

Between November and now, we had Mr. Phillipson of our Department

doing a study of school needs, essential classroom needs in the

Province, and his instructions were to find out where the pressure

areas were, to find out what the essential classroom needs were in each

individual school district, and to make sure that the school districts

were utilizing the space properly that they had available, and he had

excellent response from the school districts, and he only provided the

report to me last evening. In this report he has set out the essential

classrooms that he feels should be constructed within the Province, and

at the present time they are now processing referenda for school

districts, which do not have the approval of the taxpayers to spend

money for school construction, and for those school districts which

have received approval of the taxpayers for construction, we will be

processing these classrooms.

My feeling, Mr. Speaker, is that in these days of frightful high

costs, that only essential work should be proceeded with, otherwise the

taxpayers of the Province will be paying over and over again for the

cost of this school construction, and they will be paying this high

interest for many years to come, and I think that if we were to adopt

any other course, that we would be acting irresponsibly.

While we have been studying these costs of school construction, we

have been making a very careful study of the new means and methods of

school construction itself, and at my instigation the B.C. School

Trustees have set up a special committee under the chairmanship of Dr.

Peter Oberlander. This committee is to study new methods and means of

constructing schools, whether it be done by modular construction — that

is to use the same doors and type of doors and windows, and door knobs

and what not in the schools — or if you're not getting different

standards whether it would mean having a systems construction. That is,

mass constructions of schools, with a large construction company in

Vancouver doing the work, and you could order a room, or you could

order a wall, or you could order a roof, this sort of work — systems

construction. I hope this committee will have this report in my hands

by the end of March. I also want to know from this committee, if we can

save costs by the use of this method, how it could be implemented in

the Province.

Another Committee that was operational during the year was a

committee headed up by a Mr. Les Canty of the Department of Education,

and Mrs. Thompson, the president of the P.T.A., also was a member of

that committee. They have filed a report with us on the better

utilization of schools and school facilities and this report is in your

hands, I instructed it to be sent out to you just recently. In line

with the maximum joint use of school facilities, which has been talked

about by the school trustees, by the teachers, and particularly by the

ladies and gentlemen of the P.T.A., I propose to introduce an amendment

to the Public Schools Act, which will allow for community participation

in construction of facilities on school grounds.

While we are fighting this hard battle to keep down the costs of

operating public schools, I have suggested to the school boards

themselves that they could save costs of administration by

amalgamation. During the year we looked at the situation in British

Columbia and found that there were four unattached school districts in

the Province, and in the process of the last several months we have

attached three of these unattached districts to existing school

districts, and the fourth one is in the process now of being attached

to an organized school district. But I think, Mr. Speaker, that there

are other ways that these very expensive administration costs can be

minimized by school districts by amalgamation, and I am hoping that we

can work together with the school trustees of the Province to bring

other amalgamations into effect during the current year.

Another method that we are using to try to keep the operational

expenses of schools from climbing so it's impossible for the taxpayer

to absorb them, is by the use of the formula for operational costs; and

from my observation this has worked very well. During the last year

several school districts ran into some difficulty. The unit costs for

1969/70 was set at $11,960 per unit. For the year 70/71 it has been

boosted to $12,990 which is an increase of 8.61 per cent. This is for

operational costs.

I note with some interest that the Province of Alberta is adopting

this formula for operating their schools within the Province, and this

year they have set a flat increase of 6 per cent, and they're not going

to allow any deviation from that figure. In our formula, if a school

district wants to spend more than this sum of money, they can spend 10

per cent

[ Page 303 ]

more than the basic formula. If they want to spend

more than that, they can do so provided they can get the local

taxpayer's approval, as he has to pay 100 per cent of the cost of it

anyway. I have advised the school districts of the Province in

December, that we anticipate and expect that this year that they will

stay within 10 per cent of the programme, and if otherwise, they must

get the consent of taxpayers in their district.

Now turning to the public school system itself, more changes

occurred in the public school system in British Columbia in the decade

of the 1960's than in the 88 prior years to that time. The Chant Royal

Commission brought down its recommendations in 1960, and the public

school system in British Columbia has changed radically since that

time. These recommendations were meant to be a guide in changing

education as well as retaining some of the existing features, and the

report was interpreted in that light.

Now I've listed a series of changes in my written notes and I will

forward them to the members of the Legislature so that they may be able

to read what I've said about them, but some of these major changes were

the former grade plan up to Grade 6, and then three years and three

years, has been revised. Virtually every subject field in the course of

education, in the curriculum, has been or is being revised. We've

brought in vocational and technological fields of study into the public

school system, recommendations regarding kindergartens were taken into

account, school district boundaries have been changed, the length of

the school day has been increased, the survey of the school libraries

were made and now the libraries, in the jargon of the profession, are

becoming resource learning centres of the school, the system of teacher

certification has been changed, health service requirements in the

school system have altered and also the schools are taking advantage of

computing centres, and even some of the examination results are handled

by computers today.

In recent days, in addition to the recommendations of the Chant

Commission, there have been moves afoot in the school system to allow

for more individualized instruction. The teaching of French in the

school system — individual schools are now having programmes in the

Grade 6 and Grade 7 levels. In addition, we have one school district in

the Province where French is the language of instruction beginning in

kindergarten and proceeding year by year. Also, the textbooks have been

changed substantially in the Province. A new procedure for implementing

curriculum change has been instituted. Major changes in examination

procedures have been instituted. Reporting to parents has altered and

great changes have occurred there.

While all this has been going on, and because of the influence of

school trustees and teachers in the Province, British Columbia has been

in the forefront of many innovations. The Dr. H.N. MacCorkindale

Elementary School in Vancouver, for example, was one of the first

experiments with the open area concept, and in fact rated a major

write-up in the Reader's Digest. During the decade of the 60's, special

classes were evolved for children suffering varying problems. Team

teaching is also in vogue in several schools. Coquitlam is

experimenting with a semester system, and as we enter into the 1970's,

we propose to utilize some of the new technological advances, and

intend to use educational television.

As we leave the 1960's, on observation we have the finest public

school system in Canada, and one of the finest on the North American

continent. We will continue to hold our place, our students are better

educated, are more mature, and have better facilities than any other

group of students in our history. As we proceed into the 1970's I

anticipate and predict that the methods of instruction, the use of new

equipment and facilities will continue to evolve and to improve.

I'd now like to turn to the post-secondary education system in the

Province. In 1960 we had three vocational schools and by 1970, this

year, with the completion of the Victoria Vocational School, we now

have nine vocational schools in the Province and we have one under

construction at Kamloops. The Institute of Technology at Burnaby has

provided a completely new field of post-secondary education, a field

which is now also being developed by our regional colleges in every

part of the Province. These institutions, these vocational schools,

have graduated thousands of young men and women into the business life

of our Province.

During the course of this Session you have heard the Minister of

Mines and Petroleum Resources indicate to you and to the House the

tremendous development that will be taking place in our resource base

industries in the Province in the next ten years. We'll need thousands

upon thousands of technically skilled people and highly skilled

craftsmen to take their place in British Columbia in this decade, and I

think that, with the evolution in development of these technical

schools through the 1960's, it's been a very important factor in our

economic development, and I think that these developments will continue

during the next decade, although I believe in a different form.

I'd like now to turn particularly to our regional colleges and

vocational schools, I'll tell you. During the decade of the 1960's, Dr.

Macdonald of the University of British Columbia prepared the Macdonald

Report. In it he made a number of recommendations. At that time we had

one public college, the Victoria College. We had a private college

known as Notre Dame at Nelson. Among his recommendations, Dr. Macdonald

recommended that we enter into the field of regional colleges and that

they be established in the Province. The Provincial Government

immediately adopted this report, and over the past several years has

authorized the establishment of regional colleges in every comer of our

Province, so that today over one-half of the student population is

within commuting range of a regional college. We now have regional

colleges at Vancouver in the Vancouver City College, Selkirk College

near Castlegar, Capilano College on the North Shore, Okanagan College

in that valley, the College of New Caledonia at Prince George, and

Malaspina College at Nanaimo.

During this year I expect that there will be two new colleges coming

into being, one in the Fraser Valley known as the Douglas College,

which should have a very large population almost immediately — we

anticipate between 1,200 and 1,500 students immediately. Also, I hope

that there'll be a new regional college known as the Cariboo College

with its headquarters at Kamloops. In the Throne Speech we indicated

that we are carrying on negotiations with the Victoria School District

regarding the creation of a new regional college on Southern Vancouver

Island.

This concept of regional colleges, I think, is a very exciting one,

because it combines academic programmes with technical programmes. We

have found that there are a number of students who go to university,

for example, and find out that it isn't what they really want and they

become drop-outs, but with regional colleges students, are able to

enter into the regional college on an academic programme,

[ Page 304 ]

and if he finds that this is not to his liking he

has the ability then to transfer over to a technical course or a

vocational course. I believe that with the rapid development of our

Province it's inevitable that more regional colleges will be coming

into existence in the next decade.

Last year in my speech to the Legislature I indicated, from my

observation, that there was a distinct relationship between vocational

schools and the emerging regional colleges. Except for the case of the

Vancouver City College, all of the regional colleges have begun to

operate without any formal connection with a vocational school. We have

discovered — I had a panel of experts set up to help me with this

matter during the year — we discovered that there are a number of

overlapping subjects, those being presently given in the vocational

schools and those being given in the regional colleges very nearby, and

a good example might be business courses, and we have recognized that

in the future more and more overlapping will take place.

From time to time representations have been made to me that in the

interest of economy and efficiency, that these two types of

institutions should be combined in some sort of appropriate fashion,

and particularly in the areas where these vocational schools and the

regional colleges are close together. Therefore I intend now, Mr.

Speaker, to announce the direction in which we intend to move this

year. Effective April 1st, 1971, it will be our policy to combine, as

far as we practically can do, the operations of the vocational schools

with the adjacent regional colleges. In particular, we propose to meld

the Nanaimo Vocational School with the Malaspina College. In Prince

George our vocational school will become part of our New Caledonia

College. The Kelowna Vocational School will become part of the Okanagan

Regional College. In the Kootenays, the vocational school at Nelson

would work in combination with a separate college, and in Kamloops we

would expect to incorporate the new vocational school with the

newly-emerging Cariboo College. For the time being we would propose to

operate the vocational schools at Terrace, Dawson Creek, Burnaby and

Victoria as we are at present, but our intentions would be to have

these schools closely integrated with regional colleges. The B.C.I.T.

would continue to function as a provincially operated institution.

Naturally, there will be some administrative consequences, and it's

not our intention to place a heavier financial burden on the regional

colleges or on their participating school boards. At the present time

the Provincial Government is assuming 60 per cent of the operating and

capital costs of the colleges, and it would not be our intention to

upset this 60-40 sharing plan in any way. The regional vocational

schools are presently financed from Federal and Provincial sources, as,

for example, by the sale of services to the Federal Manpower

Development, and these routes will remain open after the two

institutions are brought together.

Naturally we feel that we will have to have reasonable assurances

that these combined operations will be run in a financially fiscally

responsible way, and as a means of accomplishing this rather difficult

feat, we're going to propose the establishment of a budget and

programme articulation procedure. This procedure would involve a

mechanism for advance screening of contemplated changes by colleges,

but with a minimum of intrusion to the proper responsibility of the

college councils or of the academic and technical staffs. I hope to be

able to work out this programme in the intervening year in

collaboration with the college councils and with the personnel in the

vocational schools, and I hope to be able to do this well in advance of

the target date, April 1st, 1971.

We think that in the years of the 1960's that these vocational

schools have done wonderful work in our Province, and from all

standpoints have been an outstanding success. At the present time the

enrolment in the various courses at these vocational schools is more

than 21,000 in the last school year. I think with the development of

British Columbia in these resource areas, that we're going to require

more and more technicians and skilled people, and I think that our

regional colleges will give every indication of being ready and able to

make these significant contributions.

Now with the time left to me I'd like to turn to the field of the

universities. As we entered the 1960's, the Province of British

Columbia had only one university, U.B.C. In his report, Dr. Macdonald

recommended to the Government that the college at Victoria become a

university. He also recommended that the private college at Nelson,

Notre Dame, be elevated to a university. The Government accepted these

recommendations, and went even further by the construction of a new

instant university on top of Burnaby Mountain known as Simon Fraser

University. So that today we now have three public universities and one

private university in the Province. These three public institutions

have been carrying on their steady building programme, and this is to

look after the continuing growth of the student population. Among

things to note, Mr. Speaker, there is an additional $15,000,000 set

aside this year for them to carry on with their construction projects.

I would like to quote a few statistics on grants being given to our

Provincial institutions. In 1960-61 the operating grants and the

capital grants combined amounted to $11,700,000. By 1965, this had

increased to $30,000,000. By '68, $65,000,000. Last year it was

$80,000,000, and this year there is an additional $12,000,000, making a

total grant of $92,000,000 to our universities.

It was noted in the Throne Speech that in our public universities we

have three new presidents. They were installed in office in 1969. As we

enter the decade of the 1970's, I think the universities will be facing

the problem of being irrelevant in the exciting years that lie ahead of

us. In the last two years there has been great ferment in the

university area which, from time to time, has erupted in noisy clashes

in the major universities of the world. These confrontations have

caused all university administrations to look at their policies, to

review their objectives and aims, and I think that discussions will

certainly be carried on in the future. But I feel that with the

enlightened administration, with the new presidents we have in our

universities, that they will continue to play a very prominent part, a

very important role in the development of our Province during the next

ten years.

I am sure that the honourable members of the Legislature are aware

of the fact that there is an advisory board, the responsibility of

which is for advising of the final allocation of this sum which is

appropriated by the Legislature for the operation of the three public

universities, and this year the sum being set aside for operation is

$77,000,000. The work of this advisory board has not been easy. I want

today to pay particular tribute to Dean Chant, who has served as the

chairman of the advisory board since its inception. Dean Chant has been

an outstanding British Columbian, certainly in education. He has asked

to be relieved of this position because he is also a member of the

academic board, and I have recognized that his wishes should be

respected.

In view of the experiences of the advisory board of the

[ Page 305 ]

past five years, and considering the nature of the

problems that we'll be facing in the next decade, I have thought that

we should have someone join the advisory board who has had public

experience and private experience in the administration of public

funds. I am particularly pleased to be able to announce today that the

well-known chartered accountant and former mayor of Vancouver, W. C.

Rathie, has agreed to accept this chairmanship.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that great strides have

been taken in all fields of education in the last decade. Students

graduating from the public schools system, in particular from the

vocational schools, the regional colleges, and the universities, are

facing a very bright future with the rapid development that is taking

place in our Province and in our economy. These students will be facing

the best years of our Province which lie immediately before us. And we

in the Department of Education are looking forward to the challenges of

the decade of the 70's. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Burnaby North.

MRS. EILEEN E. DAILLY (Burnaby North): Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Just before I rose here I received a note from one of the page

boys. I gather he thought that every time I speak I am going to mention

something about page girls in this House, because he just handed me a

list of names of 12 girls that he thinks would serve very well on the

floor. I just hope that whoever is responsible, I am not quite sure,

but whatever department is responsible, would give consideration to

this.

Well, in taking my place in this year's Budget debate, I would first

like to comment on the Budget as it applies to education. We have just

heard the Honourable Minister of Education speak in this debate and

once again, as of last year, we have heard basically just a recitation

of statement of costs, statistics, and number of classrooms

constructed, and percentage increases in education. At no time, this

year, last year, or even the former Minister, have we had any

enunciation of his Department's philosophy of education.

AN HON. MEMBER: Has he got one? Living from day to day.

MRS. DAILLY: And surely, Mr. Speaker, a Budget should be more

than a statement of costs and sources of money. Surely a Budget should

reflect in financial terms some philosophical commitment.

During the Throne Speech debate I referred to the empty life faced

by citizens in British Columbia. No wonder, Mr. Speaker, we are facing

an empty society in this Province when the very Cabinet Ministers

responsible for managing and planning the affairs of this Province

produce empty speeches.

AN HON. MEMBER: Like a Junior High essay.

MRS. DAILLY: Not only was the last speech devoid of content but we even had repeat announcements from the year before.

You know, the honourable Premier's Budget speech on Friday was no

exception to this. Here in his concluding remarks, and I quote, "The

careful allocation of this record $1,166,000,000 Budget will lay the

foundations for continued orderly growth of this Province in the decade

of the 70's." Now I ask you, what does this really tell the people of

British Columbia? To my mind, it simply suggests a tendency to expand

meaninglessly for its own sake. There is no policy here, there is no

programme enunciated for the new post-industrial age which we are all

going to be faced with.

Mr. Speaker, I find it most disturbing to see that the educational

expenditures in this Budget actually show a percentage decrease over

last year's Budget. How can this Government justify decrease in

educational expenditures in a Province which has one of the

fastest-growing student populations, as the Minister said, in Canada?

I am also greatly disturbed that this Government's policies with

relation to Bill 86 and school construction are creating a second-rate

classroom environment for the students and teachers of British

Columbia. Now in March, 1968, the honourable the Attorney-General who

was then Minister of Education, outlined to the House on the second

reading of Bill 86, the major objectives of the new operating formula

for financing schools, and I would just like to run through these

objectives as he enunciated them. First, to bring the cost of the basic

education programme reasonably into line with the actual operating

expenses of school districts. Secondly, to provide meaningful

guidelines to the school boards in the preparation of their budgets and

thirdly, to simplify the calculation of the education formula and, at

the same time, free the hands of the school trustees as much as

possible in the administration of their affairs.

Now, these were the objectives that the then Minister of Education

outlined to us. This was to be the purpose of this new Bill. Mr.

Speaker, I contend that after two years of application, these

objectives have not been achieved. For example, could one possibly say

that the basic education programmes set by the Government fall

reasonably into line with the actual operating costs of school

districts, when we know already, Mr. Speaker, that out of 86 school

districts in British Columbia, 50 — I think the figure is 49 — have

found their 1970 budget has exceeded the 110 per cent ceiling? And you

know it is very interesting to note, Mr. Speaker, that the percentages

in excess of the 110 per cent factor actually vary from .09 per cent to

61.23 per cent. This certainly shows the great variety in needs in

school districts across this Province, and it certainly points out that

this formula is not making allowance for these great variety of needs.

What is going to happen to these boards if they are unable to gain

approval for the spending of these overages? You know, I thought it was

the understatement of the year when the honourable Minister just said,

before he took his seat, that some boards have run into some

difficulty. Let's examine some of the difficulties that boards have run

into. In 1969, nine referendums on operating expenditures were

conducted in this Province. Of these nine, seven failed to win the

approval of the electorate. Three of these boards were advised

unofficially that deficit financing would be in their best interest,

and I would like to quote, I believe from the Colonist, from a

statement made by James Campbell, President of the B.C. School Trustees

Association, who said that seven B.C. School Boards, whose operating

budgets were rejected last year in referendums, were allowed by the

Government, after they were sworn to secrecy, to obtain extra funds

through a form of deficit financing.

But, Mr. Speaker, aside from the point that this shows that this

formula is not working, let's look at the most important thing of all,

and that is, what effect does the operating referendum and the defeat

of it, as we have seen,

[ Page 306 ]

have on the classroom learning environment? In

other words, what happens to the students in the classroom? Surely this

is the important question. Well, let's look at two districts where

referenda were defeated. The B.C. Teachers Federation sent a commission

to two of these areas, Kitimat and Powell River, to see if the school

operating referenda there last year damaged the quality of education in

two of B.C.'s outstanding school districts, and I have chosen them — to

the honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs — because these were two

lighthouse districts, and I want to show you what has happened to them

since the defeat of the referenda.

AN HON. MEMBER: Why were these chosen?

MRS. DAILLY: They made a three-day visit last month to

Kitimat and Powell River, two of seven districts in the Province where

money-raising referenda were defeated last spring. The referenda were

the first of their kind held in B.C. and the only ones of their type in

Canada. The Commission members found — it is obvious that the

honourable Minister does not understand what the quality of education

is all about, so I am going to explain.

AN HON. MEMBER: Living proof.

MRS. DAILLY: I think the honourable Minister will have her chance later on. I believe it is my time on the floor now, Mr. Speaker.

Many teachers had taken the referenda defeat as a direct slap at the

value and the worth of the educational programme being offered, and a

personal affront to their contributions to that programme. "Some of the

joy has gone out of the job," said one Powell River teacher. The

Commission found that Powell River's teaching force had been reduced by

23, the number of teachers' aides cut in half, and library and music

staff reduced by 50 per cent. The number of remedial or special class

teachers was reduced and the janitorial staff cut by one-third.

At Kitimat, they found five teachers were dropped, despite an

increase of more than 200 students. Teachers' aides were eliminated.

The proposed increase in teaching supplies budget was cancelled, and

high school library services were cut. You know, it is quite obvious

reading this, and from the reaction across the floor, Mr. Speaker, that

this is the reason we are in this mess in education. The Government

members have shown by their comments they do not appreciate what a good

classroom learning environment is.

AN HON. MEMBER: They are slow learners.

MRS. DAILLY: The budget cutting simply reduced the quality of

services offered in what had been two of the most progressive districts

in British Columbia. Now, they admit they could find, the Commission

could find no evidence that any of the services restricted or removed

as a result of the budget cutting represented essential components of

the school system. Now one of the commissioners admitted, he said,

"Disaster hasn't struck the schools," and I gather this is all the

Government is concerned with, that disaster does not hit the schools.

We should be encouraged, however, we should be leading these districts

because there is evidence, since the defeat of the referenda, of a slow

rot in what were once leading districts.

Now, Mr. Speaker, again I would

like to refer to the fact that these were lighthouse districts, and

this Government, this Department of Education, at the present time does

not fund any research for education. Where are the lighthouse and new

programmes going to come from if they don't come from, the school

board, and yet you are not giving them an opportunity to produce these

programmes under your operating formula.

The referendum vote for school operating funds is wrong in principle

and impractical in operation. The effect on orderly operation of the

school system is disastrous. Denied stable, reliable tax revenues,

boards are unable to budget with confidence. School boards can neither

bring consistency nor continuity to their programme, and I'm sure the

Government members must have talked to school trustees and realize the

difficulty they are under in trying to plan ahead. Pupils cannot elect

with confidence any particular programme of study, for failure of a

referendum may at any time cause the selected programme to be deleted.

Now I ask, Mr. Speaker, why should education alone, among public

services in this Province, be subjected to the jeopardy of budget

control by a direct referendum? Surely this places education at the

bottom of the list of public priorities by this Government. Now, Mr.

Speaker, once again, as I did last year, I'm going to call on the

honourable Minister of Education to remove this principle of the

operating referendum from the school finance formula.

In the Premier's speech on Friday he stated emphatically that there

was no school freeze in this Province, and yet on November 18, 1969,

the acting Minister of Education announced a freeze on school

construction except on an emergency basis. Indications were at that

time that essential school construction would be accommodated through

emergency statutory provisions. However, and I now quote from the B.C.

School Trustees' brief, "Subsequent discussions with the Minister of

Education and his officials have led us to believe that such is not the

case, and that referendum may still have to, be held, prior to

construction of essential accommodation." The brief goes on to say, "We

suggest that the proposed capital referendum, frozen on November 18th,

represent the honest and the accurate forecast of essential capital

needs of school districts, and they have been projected by elected

public representatives within the framework of Provincially approved

standards."

Mr. Speaker, they go on to make the point that even if the cancelled

referenda were allowed to go ahead tomorrow, many of the urgently

needed projects could not now be completed by September, 1970. And this

is the problem that we are faced with. It's well enough for the

Minister to stand up and announce that so many funds will be released.

The point is, it is too late now for most districts to get their

construction under way for school enrolment in September, Now, how has

this freeze affected some of our school districts? I thought we could

take, for example, the district of Kelowna, where the honourable

Premier resides. I have here a press release issued from the Kelowna

District Teachers Association regarding the referendum situation in the

Kelowna district and I'd like to read from it. They start off by saying

that the referendum position in Kelowna district is bad. First they

say, "We do not have sufficient classroom space to serve present needs.

We now have one secondary school, Dr. Knox, on shift for the second

consecutive year. There is every indication that all five of the

district secondary schools will face a shift situation next year." All

five — the district of Kelowna.

AN HON. MEMBER: Who's their M.L.A.?

[ Page 307 ]

MRS. DAILLY: Yes, who's their M.L.A.? A recent study of the

Central Okanagan, prepared by Professor Wiseman of the University of

British Columbia, states that the Kelowna area will increase, the

population, at the staggering rate of 125.2 per cent, and what

allowance has been made for this? In the elementary field our school

district has — this is in Kelowna — 127 classrooms which have more than

35 students each. Now research has shown that it's in the earliest

years that are the most critical years, and these are the years where

whatever happens to a child it will affect his whole future development

and, "If the School Board," to go on quoting from this press release,

"is unable to plan and prepare the needed space and equipment for our

children's initial seven years, the child's development will be

seriously hampered. At the present time, Kelowna school board has had a

new secondary school planned since prior to May, 1968. The citizens of

School District No. 23 approved the necessary expenditures at that

time — 1968, May. Since then the local board has met a continuing and

prolonged series of delays and cut-backs that must indeed be

frustrating for these devoted public servants." And that's the

situation in the District of Kelowna. The M.L.A. is the honourable

Premier who has announced there is no school freeze in the Province.

Then, of course, we've heard comments before on the District of

Coquitlam which, being a very fastgrowing area, is having great

difficulties, and it is not being assisted by the Government. When the

Coquitlam School Board approached the Government with their

construction plans, the Planning Department approved their projects all

as essential, but they obviously didn't get past the Treasury bench. I

think we'd all be very interested, this is to the honourable Minister

of Education, to have tabled a copy of the report of your Planning

Department. The Coquitlam School District expects an increase of 2,500

students this coming September, and they simply cannot get their

schools constructed by September. This means again they are going to

face swing shifts of approximately 3,500 students this coming September.

Now the Municipality of Delta — and I was very pleased to see that

the honourable member, who is now checking his facts with the Minister

of Education, is going to follow me.

AN HON. MEMBER: Where's he going to follow you?

MRS. DAILLY: I don't know, I'm wondering where he's going to

follow, he hasn't anywhere to go really. I think we'll all be awaiting

anxiously to hear his explanation of why there is no freeze in Delta,

because here are the figures I have about the honourable member's own

riding.

The Municipality of Delta asked for a projected 71 classrooms. They

were cut down to 47, and they're still awaiting approval to construct

these. This means swing shift for Delta in September, and I wonder what

the M.L.A. for Delta, as a former teacher, feels about this, because

surely he is aware of the problems which can arise from swing shifts,

particularly in his own area of Delta where there are so many working

mothers.

What happens to these swing shift children who spend, because of

being put on swing shift, a great part of their day at home when their

mothers are working? It completely upsets the whole household. These

children are left to roam because the mother obviously cannot make

arrangements, we have so few day care centres available. Now while

these mothers are working, the social consequences of swing shifts can

be very serious to the children. You know, Mr. Speaker, it's bad

enough, it's bad enough to deny the children of this Province the

essential classrooms to learn in, but let us remember that the

curtailment which this Government has imposed in many districts of

school libraries, activity rooms, lab and research facilities is also

denying them the right to a quality education.

AN HON. MEMBER: Tells them to play outside.

MRS. DAILLY: We have only to look at The Colonist of two days

ago, the headlines, "Oak Bay Council Demands Funds Released for

Schools. Oak Bay Council, angered by reports of unsanitary washroom

facilities, inadequate heating plant, and a serious fire hazard, voted

Monday to begin pressuring the Education Department to release funds

and allow construction of a permanent annex at the school, allow

construction as approved in a 1966 referendum. ‘It’s deplorable that in

1970, conditions like this should exist in a place like Oak Bay, said

Mayor Frances Elford," and she goes on to describe the obsolete wash

basins, water closets, etc. The parents produced a petition to the

Council, and in the petition they said there is no library in this

school, which has qualified for a library for at least 20 years.

AN HON. MEMBER: Good heavens. In Oak Bay?

MRS. DAILLY: Mayor Elford explained that at present the

library books are scattered throughout the classrooms, but an order for

1,800 additional books will soon be arriving, and no facilities will be

available for them. "All the ills of this school would be cured by the

building of this annex, which has been approved by the electorate,"

said Mayor Elford.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to now point out once again that I've

tried to list the problems which the school construction policy of this

Government and their operational finance formula are creating for the

children of this Province, and unless drastic immediate changes are

made we are going to continue to create a second-rate learning

environment in British Columbia schools.

I would like to turn now briefly, because I realize we have another

opportunity to speak on this in the Educational estimates, but I would

like to turn briefly to higher education. At least 70 per cent of the

students who graduate from our high schools are going to have to go on,

want to go on, and will need to, to some form of higher education, and

I'm very concerned, Mr. Speaker, that this Government, through its lack

of a financial commitment to higher education, is creating a situation

whereby a great number of these students who desire to move on will

find no classroom to enter.

U.B.C. has just announced a restriction in enrolment. Simon Fraser

last year turned away over 200 students from the Faculty of Education

because of lack of facilities. The regional colleges are slowly,

painfully, coming into being — far too slowly because of the inadequate

legislation, ineffective legislation, which this Government has imposed

with regard to the establishment of regional colleges. You know I just

was in Ontario recently, and in talking to people in Education there,

they were amazed when they found out that we still used property tax

for regional colleges. They asked me, "Why, isn't it just another form

of higher education?" Far more capital and operating funds are needed

to be injected into a post-secondary school network than this

Government seems prepared to put forth and, Mr. Speaker, not only are

funds being denied, but we have the ludicrous

[ Page 308 ]

situation today where operating estimates for the three public

universities are announced in one package. Meanwhile the three

universities have no idea what each will receive until the grant is

sliced up. Last year they did not know until June.

Such a policy is not only highly arbitrary, not allowing for

collective consultation with the three universities to assess their

needs, but it restricts their yearly planning. All we've heard from the

Minister in respect to this today is a change in the chairman of the

present structured commission. We were hoping to hear that there would

be changes entirely in the whole structure of university grants and how

they are allotted.

Mr. Speaker, although I have devoted the major portion of this

speech to education, there are other aspects of this year's Provincial

Budget which cause me concern. One of the most condemning features of

this Budget is the appropriation for housing under the Minister of

Municipal Affairs' Estimates, $5,000,000 for housing and urban renewal,

exactly the same as last year, and not even half of that spent last

year. Here we are in this Province of British Columbia facing year

after year a housing crisis, and this Government year after year fails

to take any needed action. Why, the Province of Alberta has just

recently placed $8,000,000 alone into land assembly on the outskirts of

Edmonton. Already, Mr. Speaker, this has had the effect of bringing

down the price of lots in the City of Edmonton, but this Government

sits back and waits for local initiative to solve the problem. Mr.

Speaker, local initiative alone cannot solve this housing crisis. This

Government must step in and take immediate action, because by your

negligence in this area you are promoting poverty, and social ills for

thousands of citizens in this Province. You know, I get very tired at

the prattling across the Floor about "We believe in the family unit."

"Everyone should have their own home," but by your own no-action

policies in the housing field you're breaking up many family units in

this Province. And you're also denying many of our senior citizens the

right to live their remaining years in dignity and peace.

You know, I was reading a copy of the Senior Citizens Newspaper, and

it was sent to me by a senior citizen who was somewhat concerned about

the counseling set-up, which I believe the Minister without Portfolio

has set up for senior citizens. They had just read about the cost of

transporting these people to meet together to talk about counseling

senior citizens. Now I'm not knocking the idea, but may I say to the

honourable Minister, first let's fulfill the basic needs of our senior

citizens. Let's give them proper housing, let's help them with the cost

of drugs, and I don't think you're going to need to have so many

counseling problems.

Mr. Speaker, another shocking omission from this year's Budget is

that there's no mention of a Government-planned programme in the

construction or establishment of nursing home and intermediate care

facilities. Like everything else, it's very patchy. We hear that some

intermediate care facility is being built, but there's no over-all plan

enunciated. Increasing Government contributions to private nursing

homes is certainly not solving the problem; for many of our senior

citizens who need such care are not on welfare, and they find that all

their funds are depleted paying the rates in nursing homes, and then

they, too, end up on welfare. When is this Government going to come out

with a programme similar to other Provinces, for a three-level patient

care, which would include the intermediate care programme? There is

nothing in this Budget Speech to suggest that this Government has any

concrete plans in this direction, and this is a pretty sorry thing to

have to go back to our constituencies and tell these old people, who

have to go into nursing homes, that we see nothing in the future out of

this Budget to help them in this area.

Mr. Speaker, another area where this Government has been justly

condemned is in the care of the emotionally disturbed child and the

lack of facilities in this Province. Last year, just prior to the

election, the new Youth Development Centre, known as The Maples, on the

grounds of the Burnaby Health Centre, was rushed into opening just

prior to the election. This $3,000,000 building will ultimately house

75 children. Now I realize it provides other services to the community

around. When I visited it in early Janaury, with two other M.L.A.s — and I know that the Ministers across there, many of them have visited

it — I was most impressed with the supervisor and the staff of The

Maples. But I was not impressed with the building. The building has

obviously been designed along precisely the same lines as the

Willingdon School for Girls. You know, Mr. Speaker I often wondered how

much consultation ever takes place between the Public Works Department

and those who are actually going to have to work and live in these

buildings.

AN HON. MEMBER: He's asleep right now.

MRS. DAILLY: The end results never appear to be a product of

any consultation. For example, here is an example. Private counseling

rooms where these emotionally disturbed children are taken individually

for counseling, have been built right next door to the woodworking and

metal shop room. And, Mr. Speaker, although this expensive building has

produced excellent space and facilities, the vocational shop room for

the place has no equipment. They have the shop but no equipment, which

is indeed frustrating for the supervisor who has a programme, but can't

use it in this beautiful building because there is no equipment. Mr.

Speaker, this Government has taken one large, clumsy step to provide

treatment for emotionally disturbed children, and I would like to

suggest that the present building, as it now exists on the Burnaby

Health Centre grounds, be turned into a training centre for workers and

teachers of emotionally disturbed children. This is what we need. The

building would be admirably suited for this. And, at the same time, the

Government would immediately set up a network throughout this Province

of smaller, less expensive homes f or disturbed children.

Mr. Speaker, this week in the House a member labelled the

Government, the Social Credit Government, as a Conservative Government.

I contend, Mr. Speaker, that the Social Credit Government in British

Columbia doesn't even deserve that label. For this Budget clearly shows

that it has been produced by a Government empty of policies and

programmes for the 70's a Government that has produced a billion dollar

budget, yet it has failed to meet the basic needs of many of the

citizens of this Province.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Delta.

MR. ROBERT WENMAN (Delta): Mr. Speaker, for the first time in

the history of mankind society has accepted the obligation and extended

the privilege and right of higher education on a mass basis. I think

many members of this House will be able to remember back to their

fathers and their grandfathers, to a time when even a Grade 8 education

seemed adequate for most people, and it wasn't too many

[ Page 309 ]

years ago that this changed and Grade 10, or junior matriculation,

seemed to be a good goal. About the time of the Second World War we

were looking toward the objective of everyone trying to achieve a Grade

12 standard, and during the last few years universities have started a

rapid expansion, and senior matriculation in today's world is a

relatively insignificant goal.

During the last ten years, first university degrees have become

commonplace, and we talk of regional colleges, vocational and technical

schools and at least 14 years of basic minimum educational

requirements. We go even further than that. We talk in terms of

continuous education. We talk in terms of formal and informal education

continuing throughout the entire life of man. More and more adults

return for further formal regrading uptraining or enrichment. Each year

we teach more students in school, more years, at a higher cost per

student.

While we have found that as the level of education has risen,

productivity has risen, and thereby our standard of living. It would

seem that, of late, educational costs have over-accelerated in

relationship to productivity and might well consume more than the

entire productivity that it could possibly create. The rapid

accelerating extension of educational services and costs is spiraling

at an unprecedented rate, and it seems it is bound on a collision

course with the slowdown in the western economy.

In the United States it was recently reported that bond redemptions

exceeded sales by $122,000,000 last month for the fourteenth straight

month of decline, even after interest rates were raised. This year the

Canadian Government will have to refinance $2,000,000,000 worth of

bonds. Interest rates are too high. Money is too tight. It seems

unlikely that a strong bond market will develop in the next few months.

You know, I would have to say of the member from Burnaby's speech — and I am sorry she has stepped out — but I would have to say you know,

like many women, she certainly knows how to spend money but

unfortunately she didn't…. I would say that while she put her finger

on some of the problems which almost any member of this House could

identify, she did fail to come up with the solution. You know, anyone

can identify those problems, anyone can tell us how to spend money, but

you, Mr. Leader of the Opposition, have never told us how to make it

either. And that is the problem with you, and that is the problem. The

people of this Province know, I know the people of this Province know

that you don't know what a dollar bill is, and they have no confidence

in you, and it is this lack of confidence that is the reason you are

the Opposition and will continue to be the same.

Mr. Speaker, there will be major cuts in spending for secondary and

post-secondary education in the next Alberta budget, Education Minister

for Alberta, the Honourable Robert Clark said. The Minister said

further he is serious about a plan to place a 6 per cent limit on

spending increases by school boards. He said it is the firm intention

of the Government of Alberta to come to grips with the rising costs of

school administration. In fact, I was pleased to hear our Minister say

that the unit cost in British Columbia has not been held to a 6 per

cent increase but it has been raised to 8.61 per cent during this year

in British Columbia.

Premier Robarts of Ontario has stated that if educational costs

continue to rise as they have, Ontario will be bankrupt within the next

decade. Educational services must continue to expand, but educational

costs will have to be curbed. I am going to give you some suggestions — thank you. I am coming to that a little further on, and they are very

constructive suggestions. I hope you will take them, and try to

implement them as I have. Educational services must continue to expand

but, as I said, these two factors of expansion plus curbing do not have

to be contradictory. For there are many ways of efficiency that are

well-known, that have been well-known for several years, but I must say

have not been put into effect. The taxpayer is not getting full value

for his educational dollar. The Department of Education — and you know,

the Minister of Education that we have right now, has worked hard and

travelled throughout the Province, and his sincerity is known and

respected by school boards throughout the Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: What's he done wrong then?

MR. WENMAN: The Department of Education must be more than a

money-dispensing satellite of the Department of Finance. In the face of

tight money and high interest rates I can understand the concern of the

Minister of Finance and appreciate his call for restraint in spending.

However, I think we as Canadians and British Columbians have accepted

the fact that money is tight and will be in short supply, and the

Department of Education should be providing stronger direction in more

efficient ways of spending the money currently available.

The Education Department has, or should have, a broad and objective

Provincial vantage-point from which it can draw many different

efficiency ideas from the individual school boards throughout the

Province and they, in turn, should be redistributing these to all the

school boards for survey, scrutiny and implementation. I might say that

one of these such school boards is Delta, and they have brought many

fine ideas to the Department and some of these are being implemented,

and that is good. Why is it that every individual school in British

Columbia must be an architectural monument, with a seven per cent fee

swelling the cost of its construction? Why are the schools open less

than 200 our of 365 days per year?

AN HON. MEMBER: Ask the Minister.

MR. WENMAN: Why are some of our universities not used more

fully? Why do we have continuous and constant studies on school

construction and extended and multiple use of educational facilities,

and all too seldom implement the recommendation? I think that the

Minister has brought many new studies forward. I think this is fine,

and I look forward to him implementing the recommendations that the

Parent Teachers Association, the B.C.T.F., and other organizations have

brought forward. But I think we must look at them and be prepared to

react quickly and efficiently now, particularly on the school use

programme.

I think a basic standard architectural plan should be established in

the Province of British Columbia, for the construction of schools.

Every year or so a team of teachers, architects, builders, and

efficiency technicians could be asked to modify and update the plan to

meet the changing needs of education. Surely at least five per cent

could be saved by establishing such a standard plan. Of course, it is

very simple, if there is a seven per cent architect's fee on every

school and you can eliminate this, basically you should be able to cut

by five per cent. A further ten per cent could well be saved through

the prefabrication of standardized components, and this proposal also

has been brought forward and how it might

[ Page 310 ]

be implemented.

I am pleased to report to the Legislature that last year I talked on

a subject called "Theme Schools," T-H-E-M-E standing for To Help

Evolutionize Media Efficiency, the media being the programme and the

facility. Basically, what this said, was to take school buildings and

place them in the corners of parks, to take community auditoriums and

place them adjacent to the schools, to take community libraries and

place them adjacent to the schools in the corner of the park, and even,

as we can afford them, swimming pools as well. I am pleased to say — the honourable member from Burnaby obviously wasn't in the House,

because the Minister announced that he will be making amendment changes

that will allow this kind of a programme. I think that is a great

forward-stepping programme and I think we will all be looking forward

to supporting it.

But you know, this idea of making the facility more efficient, this

isn't a new idea. This just isn't happening in Delta, it is happening

in many areas of the Province. But the problem is, once you have the

efficient facility, the programme is not being modified to make use of

it, and I have suggested a new kind of programme, a programme for the

secondary school that would take the technical, vocational, and

academic kind of courses, and start them at eight o'clock in the

morning and run them from eight until 12 noon. Then at one o'clock in

the afternoon we would start a human development type of course that

would include music, drama, art, physical education, these subjects. By

12 o'clock in the afternoon we would be dispersing to all of the

community the facilities instead of leaving these idle until four

o'clock or five o'clock or six o'clock in the afternoon. We could bring

in the community resource. You know, our whole idea of teaching is

expanding, and we need to bring in specialists, we need to bring in

special teachers in the field of music and drama and art and physical

education. We need to make more important use of our community resource

person, and this could be done and will be done if such a programme as

Theme Schools is implemented. I am pleased to say that in Delta we have

agreed to start to work, the school board has notified me that they are

going to start to work towards the implementation of this plan….

Thank you, you just brought me to the next part of the point of the

Theme School concept. Then if you have the academic, technical, and

vocational programmes running in the morning from eight until 12, that

means that at 12 o'clock in the afternoon you have a vacancy of all

your academic and technical and vocational classrooms. At this point

your secondary school becomes — and remember, this is your more

efficient plant, because you have efficiency of facility as well, and a

better facility — this, then becomes a regional college, starting at

one o'clock or 12 o'clock in the afternoon.

You can have an overlapping — this would bring more and better kinds

of teachers into our school districts, because you could have an

overlapping of staff between the regional college concept and the high

school. It would appeal to teachers, because it would help teachers

bridge the gap between high school and regional college, and would help

students make the gap in the same way. It would provide in the

afternoon, by using the community facility, it would provide an

individualized programme for each individual student, suiting his own

needs. At the present time we take physical education, and the students

have to — by the time the bell rings they change to get out on the

playfield, they get out on the playfield, and by the time they get out

on the playfield it is time to come back and have a shower and change

for the next class These kind of subject matters do not fit in with an

academic time-table, so we must take them and we must change them. Now

what have we done? We have created a more efficient facility, a more

efficient building, and a better programme for our young people in our

schools. I think that this can be accomplished, I think that this will

be accomplished, and this is the way of providing a better education

for a better price.

The member for Burnaby has returned, and I think a lot of her. She

found some weak points in the education system, but did you notice you

forgot, and I'm sure when the Education estimates come, you're going to

tell us, for each point that you make that's wrong, you're going to

tell us how to right that, not just by pumping in more money, but give

us new ideas on new programmes. You talk of educational philosophy.

Tell me how the educational philosophy should change to meet these

requirements. I'll be listening, I'll be listening. For the first year

the honourable member came in she had a few of these ideas, and I'm

sure she's going to return now, in her more responsible role as deputy

leader, to a very constructive kind of criticism.

I am afraid that most of our P.T.A. ladies and gentlemen have had to

return to the mainland, but I would just like to speak briefly about

P.T.A's. You know we talk about involvement. The British Columbia

Teachers' Federation produced an extremely fine document last year that

I held up in the House, and in fact the document that I pulled these

ideas from to make up the Theme School concept, and the basic theme was

involvement, and it included community involvement. The teachers in

this book told us how they wanted to bring the community into the

schools. Well, one of the ways of bringing the community into the

schools and involvement is the Parent Teachers' Association, and I

think that we must encourage their participation philosophically. We

must give them as well, allow them as well to participate on a

financial basis as well. You know, traditionally, P.T.A's used to

provide stoves in the staff room and all of these things, and every

school had its strong P.T.A., because they had a philosophic goal to

achieve through an understanding of teachers and parents for the

benefit of children, and they also had a practical goal.

I was most disappointed, in my own constituency, to have one of my

best P.T.A.'s, and that's the Prince Charles P.T.A., offer to the

school board, they said, "We want to provide for elementary students

some additional supplies that other schools don't have. We want to

provide them with an extra 12 to 15 microscopes, and we've had a winter

carnival and we've raised lots of money, and we want to spend it now."

Do you know what the school board said to that? Unfortunately, the

school board said, "Oh no, the Government should provide those things."

I think that that's terrible. I think that there is a role for the

P.T.A. to play, and when they come and offer to buy something extra for

that school they should not be told, "Oh no," they should be told, "Oh

yes," and congratulated for their efforts. I understand there was some

discussion or some complaint here about the fact that one school would

have something that another school doesn't have. Well, that's not a

challenge to the school board to provide, it is a challenge to provide

it, but it's also a challenge to the parents of the other school to get

a Parent Teachers' Association going, become involved and provide that

for that school as well. I think that's a healthy kind of competition

and pride that should be encouraged in our school system and I hope, I

feel certain this will happen for this school district as well. But the

P.T.A. has the money.

[ Page 311 ]

Let's most gladly congratulate them for it, and accept it, and build a better programme with their assistance.

I would like to speak briefly regarding the university. Dr. Bryce,

Deputy Minister of National Revenue, my friends to the — do I say the

left or the right, I'm not quite sure — my friends over here at any

rate, the Liberal party, should know him well. He is an extremely

well-respected gentleman and capable, and recently he has said the cost

of university and college education alone in Canada will equal the

country's total productive capacity by 1994 if current trends continue.

It's not the level of British Columbia Government that is recognizing

that educational costs have to be controlled, it's not the Government

of Canada, it's governments in the entire western world. Because, the

traditional sources of money that we have sought are no longer

available. The bond market is in a state of virtual collapse in

relationship to money available for schools, unless you pay a

ridiculously high interest rate that responsible school boards would

not want to do. In fact sometimes I wonder, you know, when we have so

many school boards complaining about the raising of money, I wonder if

they couldn't somehow take a little greater responsibility in raising

some of this money themselves.

I would suggest to the Minister of Finance that maybe he should say

to school boards, whatever money you can raise from bond sales within

your own school community, because I've had P.T.A.'s phone me up and

say we will put the money forward for bond issues, I think that he

should say that whatever money you can raise in your own local

community from your own people, he would match, in a grant, and let

them go ahead with development. Let's give some incentives, financial

incentives, back to our school boards.

Because of the cost of university education, many new efficiencies

will have to be found in this field. I think that limitations should be

put on enrolment at universities. We have some 40,000 students enrolled

in our universities in British Columbia compared with 22,000 students

in our technical and vocational schools. This ratio is all wrong. This

is the wrong percentage altogether. This two to one ratio must, for a

start, be reversed, because for every one professional job there are

five technical-vocational jobs required in the Provincial labour force,

but yet we have this heavy preponderance of young people in our

universities. Not only must the universities be more selective in

choosing the students that want to, need to, and can perform more

adequately at the university, but high school teachers and parents must

learn to channel their children, not only toward the university, but

also toward the technical and vocational schools throughout our own

Province.

We have highly over-evaluated and over-rated that piece of

university paper, and anyone that doesn't have it or doesn't strive for

it, is considered a second class citizen. We've got to change that

situation. We've got to change that situation so people have pride in a

certificate that they get from the vocational school and from the

technical school, because they are every bit as valuable as any piece

of paper, any educational piece of paper. In fact, in relationship to

productivity I would almost say that they are more valuable, but they

are certainly equally valuable, and we must encourage more young people

into our technical and vocational schools, and in my opinion curb the

amount of expenditure at our universities.

The university administration must make better use of existing

plants. They should extend the university day, the university week and

the university year. The university requires teachers and researchers

but all teachers should not necessarily be researchers. More teachers

should be teaching more and researching less during the main term. You

know I can agree with a professor who tells me, "But I must research to

live and to thrive and to teach," but remember, he is only teaching

during a little more than a half of the year, and if he wants to

research let him research in the off period. I think that would be a

great idea. More teachers should be teaching more and researching less

during the main, and researching during the extended lengthy spring and

summer recess.

The taxpayer who subsidizes the students feel that he is not

receiving full value for his tax dollar being spent at our

universities, and the universities in turn have a responsibility to

either be more efficient or, if they feel they are being efficient, let

them come out and tell us and the community how they are being more

efficient. It seemed to me that universities used to have a much closer

relationship with communities, but they seem to be moving away. This is

a suggestion and a discussion that I have gotten from other honourable

members, and I think that the university community must go into the

larger community and explain their programme and participate in that

community. I think the public has a right to demand this, because he

pays 72.2 per cent of the operating cost per student, compared with 23

per cent paid by the student, this is the proportion. We as taxpayers,

the taxpayers of the Province of British Columbia, subsidize every

university student to the tune of 72 per cent. In 1969/70 it is

anticipated that the Government's share will increase to 76 per cent

and student proportion of his cost will fall to 20 per cent.

The universities have an important job of communication and public

relations between themselves and the taxpayer. It is certainly falling

far short in this situation, and if it is not rectified soon, if the

universities don't get into our communities soon, they will fall

further behind and find public support turning to public contempt.

In the annual report, the Superintendent for Education in the

Province states that there is a shortage of teachers in the area of

commerce and music. I would suggest that the Department follow the

recruitment method found so effective in vocational education, where

tradesmen were found from among those actually practising in industry,

you know, brought into our vocational, into our technical schools at

the high school level. We went out and we found a mechanic working in

the garage, and we took this mechanic and we gave him a crash course

and we gave him a certificate, we gave him a certificate, and we let

him teach. You know, it's not just the fact that the students are now

receiving a real kind of practical kind of education in mechanics, in

woodwork, this isn't the only by-product that this has brought. This

has brought, somehow, a touch of reality, this has brought somehow a

touch of reality tempering the staffs of our high schools, and I would

say carpenters too, Mr. Member from Cowichan, they have brought many

fine carpenters into our schools and they are acting as teachers, and

they are acting as good teachers and good influences in our school

society.

A similar programme is needed in music and commerce. Because we have

a shortage in teachers here, we must take out professionals from the

community, professionals who show a teaching aptitude, give them a

permit for one or two years, and then if they prove successful as

teachers, we should give them a permanent certificate that would allow

them to remain in our schools. In the music and the commerce

programmes, particularly the commerce pro-

[ Page 312 ]

grammes, we have another problem, and that relates to the new

programme, the result of the Chant Report, that is now graduating its

fourth senior class. Unfortunately, the programme seems to be

channeling the less and less and less academically talented children

into the commercial programme, and I think that this needs to be

changed. There needs to be added to the arts specialty, as well as a

technical-commercial programme, we need an arts commercial specialty

programme.

Teacher tenure is too secure, and programmes that will build or

eliminate weak teachers should be established at all levels. The

Nanaimo experiment in this field, and a co-related merit rating system,

appears to be a right step in this direction. What they have done in

Nanaimo is they have cut the length of the increments down, and are

offering them to teachers who perform well. Other teachers are also

helping weaker teachers. I think this is a good programme, but it will

only remain good as long as every single teacher doesn't automatically

get this merit increment. If every teacher automatically gets this

merit increment, all it's going to do is add to costs, and I think that

this is a very, very important factor. I think that after the first

two, or three years of teaching — true that every year of experience

adds something, but it doesn't add the same amount — and after the

first two or three years of increments, any other increments should be

given only on the basis of merit.

AN HON. MEMBER: Determined by whom?

MR. WENMAN: Determined by the principal of the school. That's my next

section here.

Schools and their administration are big business in British

Columbia today. Most new schools represent a million dollar investment

in plant, and run yearly payrolls of $300,000 to $400,000. Principals

of these schools are the equivalent to top flight industrial

executives, and they should be given and expected to play larger and

more responsible roles within our school systems, just as corporate

executives. One of these roles that they should be expected to play,

Mr. Member, is they should be willing and able to adjudicate the merit

and the ability of the teachers under them, just as any businessman

adjudicates the ability of the people working for him. I think that in

British Columbia we must remember that we have one of the finest

educational systems in North America. I know that the young people in

British Columbia are receiving an excellent education that can't really

be found in the rest of Canada, and the reason for this is because we

have the most highly qualified teachers in the Province of British

Columbia of any province in Canada. Now, in so many cases, it's not the

facility that the teacher is teaching in, but it's the quality of

teacher, that will determine the quality of education that our young

people receive.

I think that it's important to note that our educational system has

produced the best qualified labour force in Canada. I think that the

standard of education in British Columbia is very, very high, and very

excellent, and is a credit not only to the Department of Education but

to the school boards and the teachers throughout the Province of

British Columbia. We have a small but capable Department of Education

in Victoria as well, and I think we have an excellent Deputy Minister

and staff. The only problem is that they are just swamped with an

overload of work, in too crowded conditions.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to just speak briefly regarding drugs and

young people. "He was found on a street corner in the city's west end

Monday morning, screaming with pain and fear, the middle finger of his

hands thrust deeply into his eye sockets. A witness described how a

passerby tried to come to the young man's aid. The young man pulled a

hand free from his eyeball and punched his rescuer. Again the young man

tried to gouge in his eyes. When the ambulance attendants arrived the

attendants found him bent over yelling. They were unable to pry his

fingers loose from his eye sockets on the way to the hospital. His

father said he was a bright, healthy, normal young man. His friend said

he had tried marijuana and now decided to try something stronger." The

young man has lost his sight. I believe it was Toronto.

You know, I have another excellent book here, an excellent

publication that I would recommend to all of the members. This is

called "The B.C. Teacher" This B.C. Teacher to me is representative of

the kind of involvement teachers should have. It is non-political, it

is non-political. It stays strictly to a professional approach. I

commend it for this approach, and I commend it to your reading

edification as well. But, in this particular book there is one sentence

here that I rather like. It goes like this. "Drug is a four letter

word, like love and hope, like dead."

Mr. Speaker, I am angry with those in places of high authority who

say they don't know if marijuana is harmful and then contradict

themselves by saying, but if marijuana isn't harmful it will be

legalized. I think this is a disgraceful kind of statement. I am

concerned because on one hand he says he doesn't know. Well if he

doesn't know, he should stop there until he can make up his mind one

way or the other whether he thinks it is harmful or isn't harmful, but

if he doesn't know he shouldn't, by innuendoes, suggest that it is

harmless. I am concerned because by so stating they are in effect

condoning and encouraging the use of marijuana. In my opinion, and I'm

not unhappy to say it and I have no qualms about saying it, marijuana

is harmful. Marijuana is a negative influence on our society. The only

factor left to determine is just how harmful is this marijuana? That's

the only question. Now while it's true that one person may try it and

it may seem to do no harm to him, you cannot deny that to some people

it does harm, and if it does harm to one person we would have to say

that it is harmful. And it does harm to many young people.

You know, you don't have to tell young people that marijuana is

harmful. You just ask any student in high school today — ask your own

sons and daughters — ask them today if they know of young people in

their school that they have seen deteriorated through the use of

marijuana, and I suggest that almost without failure they will tell you

that they know of cases like this. You don't have to ask them, young

people know. You don't have to tell young people marijuana is harmful.

Many young people have already fallen into the pit of drug abuse and

rehabilitation programmes will have to be embarked upon. This drug

drop-out minority, who all too often claim that they would reject and

destroy the structures of our society, and talk long and loud of the

new society they would build, too often stay too long and too close to

the same structured sources of food, shelter, liquor and drugs in a

most hypocritical and self-deluding fashion. Too often we try to find

excuses for weaknesses, when instead we should be calling his bluff.

Let's give his survival instincts an injection of practicality. Instead

of sending pushers to the traditional gaols, I feel sure that for the

same price or less we could make provision for supervised survival in a

northern wilderness camp. Such a closeness to nature, reality, and

[ Page 313 ]

work for survival, might well teach them some of the values that we have so far failed to do.

Young people want to, have to, and will make up their own individual

decisions as whether to accept or reject marijuana and other readily

available drugs. All we, as responsible adults, can do is to try to

give them a sense of values, to try to show them that we have but one

mind and one body and one life to live, and that this life is full of

opportunity for them to contribute and participate in society. We can

hope that by teaching them a sense of values this will have the effect

of helping them reject the drug sub-culture that can and does destroy

their minds, their bodies, and their future.

You know, Mr. Speaker, one of the things that disappointed me about

the Budget was our own reaction. We seem somehow to have become so

apathetic and so accustomed to balanced Budgets that we expect them, we

expect them. We seem to be so accustomed to not increasing the taxes

every year that we seem so unconcerned, we seem so apathetic about

this, that we fail to realize what is actually happening around us. You

know, if this were any other province in Canada, they would be all

talking about the increase in taxes. They would all be condemning the

Government for deficit financing. They would all be complaining about

the money — the Budget, after all, is financial — they would be

complaining about too much money spent in this area and this area and

this area.

We are indeed fortunate in British Columbia to have a balanced

Budget with no tax increases. Certainly this Budget is not just a

Budget for the people of the Province today, but it is a Budget, it is

a Budget that will build for the future and the young people of this

Province for many, many decades to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Shuswap.

MR. W.F. JEFCOAT (Shuswap): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is

certainly with a great sense of pride and satisfaction that I am able

to take my place here today in the Budget debate. When we have a Budget

such as we have, it certainly gives me a lot of satisfaction to know

that without any increase in taxation we are able to meet the demands,

the requirements of a growing population such as we have in British

Columbia. A Budget like this, coming so shortly after an election, as

was said here yesterday, this is truly an election Budget, and this

again is an indication of where this Government is going, what they

intend to do for their people, even though the Opposition don't like to

be reminded of it.

Now we've just come through a very successful election on August

27th. I'm sure the Opposition won't agree with that statement but,

however, this is the truth of the situation. The Liberals came back

with a reduced majority. Someone asked me the other day what happened

to the Liberals. Well, the only thing I can say is that they just did

not get enough votes.

AN HON. MEMBER: Their bus broke down.

MR. JEFCOAT: Their bus broke down, or something broke down. I

think the grape vine broke down, their correspondence channels, or

something because even after all the money spent on bus tours — I'll

admit that I would like to have had this trip around the Province, I'm

sure it would have been very educational.

AN HON. MEMBER: You could have taken your family with you.

MR. JEFCOAT: Could I have taken my family? Well I think I

could have in a bus the size of this and probably with a lot less

expense than what went into this. However, the Liberals can see the

handwriting on the wall. I'm sure that the man that ran in opposition

to me will never do it again. He'll never do it again. No, he can't. I

happen to know him a lot better than you do, my friend. I've spent

thousands and thousands of dollars in that man's store over the years.

I know him very well and he will never come back into the political

realm, I'm sure of that.

AN HON. MEMBER: He's only a sucker once, he said.

MR. JEFCOAT: Yeah. He's….

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order please. Will the members please address the Chair.

MR. JEFCOAT: The N.D.P., Mr. Speaker, well, they came into my

riding and they were just going to wallop things you know, they were

going to raise it up and put a prop under it, you know. They — it was

so easy — the signs — the roads were just plastered, the highways were

just plastered red with signs up until a certain night. They even took

the signs down out of yards, my signs out of yards, and so at a meeting

this was brought up. Somebody asked me at a meeting, "What is happening

to your signs, Mr. Jefcoat?" I said, "Well I, too, would like to know."

These large signs were disappearing. One was right out in front of a

house with the lights from this home right on it, right in the lawn

upon poles. This question was asked in a four-party meeting. "What is

happening to your signs?" I said, "I, too, would like to know what is

happening." I said, "I wish you could answer this question." So after a

couple of questions went by the board, a young fellow came to the mike

in the back of the room and he said, "Mr. Jefcoat," he said, "I am in

charge of the N.D.P. sign campaign. I know your signs are disappearing,

but," he said, "how would you like to ask your own members?" Well now,

if you can imagine such a foolish statement for anybody to make. Such a

foolish statement. However, the N.D.P. party 'phoned this man and said,

"You can take that sign down, you can take that sign down now," but we

never did find my signs, they disappeared. However, this is beside the

point. I didn't intend to speak on this.

Then on election day — this is the part that really, really bothered

me. I've heard several members speak here today on the Election Act,

and I think it's time that some amendments were made and some

enforcements made. On election day, down by the arena where the voting

was being done, four Liberal cars, or four cars with Liberal signs in

all of the windows, backed up right by the door and locked their doors.

These were people working at the tables in the arena in the polling

booths. The N.D.P. did the same thing and they even defied the police.

The police had to go down and order them off the grounds on election

day.

But this is not the worst of it, Mr. Speaker. The Act reads that the

intent, and so you can put up signs anywhere you want to put them

except by a polling booth, as long as they are up before election day.

But when outside cars, cars with people in who are not known to the

community, on election day drive up and down the streets, park all

around the streets on election day with signs saying, "Seventeen years

is too

[ Page 314 ]

much — elect an N.D.P. government today, elect an N.D.P. government

today." I say, Mr. Speaker, that the intent was to dissuade people on

election day, and they were violating and knew they were violating the

laws of our country. They make no excuses, they have no hesitation in

violating the laws of Canada, of British Columbia, the place that they

claim that they are elected to serve the people of, and I think that

this is a disgrace to the people.

You know, the N.D.P. people remind me of a fellow that was

travelling in the deep south and he got a little bit off the road. He

was going, so he thought, to a certain destination. This is what

they've been doing over a number of years. Their destination has been

for this side of the House for a number of years. They've boasted,

"We're going across over there, next time we'll be over there, we'll be

over there." But somehow or other they've been travelling for a long

time. And, so, this person travelling in the deep south, he just

couldn't seem to reach his destination, so he stopped alongside of the

road and asked an elderly coloured gentleman. He said, "Sir, could you

tell me where I am?" and the coloured man walked across the road and

peering in the window of the car at him, he said, "There you is Mister,

there you is." So he was kind of taken back, he didn't know just what

to say. He went on down the road a ways further, but he didn't seem to

be reaching his destination, just like the N.D.P. They just don't seem

to be reaching that destination. So he stops and he asks a young

coloured lad, and he thought he would be a little more discreet this

time and not put himself in an awkward position, so he said, "Say

Mister," he said, "could you tell me how to reach a certain place," and

he named this place. "Oh yes suh, yes suh" he said, "you just go right

on down the road and you make a right turn — no, no," he said, "you

can't get through that way, the bridge is washed out." He said, "You're

going to have to go back, Mister, and go around — no, no, no, " he

said, "you just can't get that way either." He said, "Say Mister" he

said, "you just can't get to where you is going from where you is." And

this is the way with the N.D.P. party. They just can't get to where

they is going from where they is.

AN HON. MEMBER: You don't know where you're going though.

MR. JEFCOAT: You have too many bridges washed out.

This Budget is truly representative of the progress of our Province,

Mr. Speaker, but at the same time it admonishes a degree of warning and

restraint in expenditures. We must be practical people. We must take

the resources at hand and use them to the advantage of the people that

we represent, but I say that this Budget is a grand Budget, but at the

same time there is a certain amount of restraint. We must not have an

inflationary, or advocate or advance inflationary measures.

The demand from our public is for services, for more services, more

schools, more hospitals, more roads, more of everything, more

recreational facilities, and it is difficult, Mr. Speaker, to maintain

a balanced Budget without increase in taxation. But that's what this

Budget does. The only way, though, to meet these requirements, as a

Budget, as was said here this afternoon, a Budget is simply dollars and

cents — dollars coming in and dollars being spent for the amenities

that the country requires. So in order to keep this, make this Budget a

balanced Budget, the only way to meet these requirements without

increased taxation is by the development of our natural resources, and

in a fuller, much fuller degree.

Now this Budget allows for a 14 per cent increase in expenditures,

and as I say, without any increase in taxation, and it's the second

Budget that this Minister has brought down in excess of $1,000,000,000.

But I would hope that to maintain a balanced Budget, that labour and

management agreements can be reached so that there will be no delay in

the monies coming in to meet the needs of this Budget and to truly make

it a balanced Budget. Increases have been considered in every field of

our economy to provide continuing services to people.

After all, Mr. Speaker, we are interested in the welfare of people,

and that is truly what this Budget does in every field of endeavour.

This Budget of $1,165,460,000 provides for increases in home-owner

grants, extending of the home acquisition grant to old homes, a $500

grant for the purchase of old homes this year, plus a $1,000 last year

on new homes, or a $5,000 second mortgage loan. This year this has been

extended to older homes, older type homes, with a $500 grant or a

$2,500 second mortgage loan, and I think that this is a great step

forward to helping our young people, particularly, to own their own new

homes.

We have increased hospital and medical facilities, and I would just

like to say here, Mr. Speaker, that I think that our hospital and

medical plan should be without criticism. It should be, I feel that it

is the best plan, our medical plan and hospital plan are the best on

the North American continent. I don't know where else you can go into a

hospital for $1 a day. I don't know where else you can obtain the

services of your physician, as you can in this country, without digging

down in your pocket for hard actual cash. I have in mind at this time a

certain elderly couple, the lady was buried the day I came down here,

on the 20th of January, but for ten months this senior citizen had

specialized care. She had a stroke, and then she had a very, very

serious operation, a hemorrhage of the brain, and I am not just sure,

but I think the hospital alone, ran into much over $3,000. When we can

give this type of service for senior citizens, for the people of this

Province, the people who have pioneered this Province, this country,

when we can give this type of service to them, I think that we should

be proud, proud people. However, there are many more fields of benefits

that I could go into here, Mr. Speaker, but I'm sure that we an know

what they are, and as there are other speakers, I am going to be as

brief as I can this afternoon.

I would like to just go into my own area a little bit at this time,

and try and not bore the people of the cities and so on, who may not be

so conversant or interested, perhaps, in the rural areas as we who come

from these areas are. Now in the Shuswap area we have a very

diversified operation, in other words, agriculture, logging, a lot of

lumbering industry, fruit industry, and so on. I think that dairying in

the agricultural end of it is by far the leading sector of agriculture.

Pure-bred stock raising is also very important in the area, there are

quite a number of pure-bred cattle raised throughout the area. A year

ago at the Kamloops Fat Stock and Beef Sale and Show, both for the

Hereford and the Angus, reserved champions went to the people in my

area. We have some of the finest cattle on the North American continent

raised there, many of them are sold, even for export purposes, for

breeding stock. Of course there is hay and grain, and the fruit

industry. There is quite a lot of fruit in the area, although not

nearly as extensive as what it is down the valley from Vernon south.

Also a new industry in the agricultural line that is increasing

quite rapidly is horse-racing, and the part that I want to speak of is

race horses. There are quite a number of

[ Page 315 ]

race horse breeders throughout the area, and some of the best race

horses in the world have been raised there, many of them going across

Canada and south onto the tracks, and this industry is bringing

considerable revenue into the area, as well as being a very pleasurable

industry, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a horse lover. My horses don't

happen to be in this bracket, they are just saddle horses, but this is

quite an industry in our area.

Now the forest industry in the area has been, over many years, one

of the leading revenue-producing industries. Some of the sawmills are

undergoing extensive alterations right at this time to meet the

economic requirements of their operations, and with a view to fuller

utilization of the timber available, also keeping in mind more adequate

pollution control measures. There's a new plywood plant, an $8,000,000

plywood plant being built right now at Armstrong. The sawmill there is

being reconstructed, the burners are being rebuilt for better pollution

control. Also, a large sawmill at Canoe, with a large plywood plant

there, and this summer they are spending $1,600,000, and it is mostly

going into the burner set-up for pollution control measures. There

will be some enlargements. I understand that they filled in around the

lake there. I forgot the amount of money they spent, but they hauled a

lot of material in to fill up the edge of the lake, to expand their

operations and so on. The other morning they got up and it was all

disappeared into the lake, so I haven't heard if they found it or not.

This may hold them up. They are putting in large expansions there to

meet the demands.

A new particle board plant is also going in, in the Salmon Arm area.

This is a very large development. The one building that was up, when I

left home they were just putting the machinery in it, was 309 feet

long, and almost the same width. It's only one of three buildings of

this size, plus a sawmill complex mostly for the furniture components,

and along with this will be one, and possibly two, furniture factories.

This particle board plant is the second one, I believe, on the North

American continent, not a chipboard, as you know today, but they will

make furniture, furniture components, veneers and all of this. It's a

finished product of very, very high calibre. The machinery has been

brought over from Switzerland and Germany and, as I say, it is the

second one of its kind on the North American continent. They will be

using again much of the waste stuff from the sawmill operation, in

other words they will be using the sawdust, the shavings from the

planer mills, and they will be making chips themselves. They can use

the chips that are presently made at the chipper plants, but they would

have to re-process them to make use of them in this particle board.

They will also make use of cottonwood, birch material throughout the

area, any of this type of material for furniture components. With this

complex, the furniture and the particle plant, they will employ some

200 to 300 people, when it is all in operation. It will be probably a

couple of years before the furniture plant will be in. Also, there is a

factory going in now to manufacture trailers, house trailers, ready-cut

housing, etc., and they too will employ some 200 to 300 people when

they are under full steam.

Then the safety fuse plant, I should maybe mention that. This is a

plant that is moving from Quebec, because of unrests and so on down

there. These people bought 700 acres of land to put this plant on. The

plant does not, of course, cover anything like 700 acres of land, but

for safety purposes they have large depots or deposit houses in the

mountain, safety places covered over well with the mountain, so that

nothing can get to the powder or the explosives whatsoever. They have a

large complex and they will be employing something like 80 people, I

believe it is.

So with these several industries coming into the area, along with

what we have, it is certainly going to bring work for young people in

the area. People are moving in to work instead of our young people

moving out. People are moving in, and of course, this leads to more

trouble in the line of pollution and the likes of that. We also have

two new airstrips, one at Salmon Arm and one at Armstrong.

AN HON. MEMBER: More pollution.

MR. JEFCOAT: Well, maybe it's more pollution, but we seem to

feel that these things are essential. The aeroplanes cause pollution,

this is sure, but they are also a method and means of people in

industry getting from one place to another in a hurry. So we have these

two new airstrips, which will take quite large planes, especially the

one at Salmon Arm, it is going to take almost any size plane when it is

finished, it isn't entirely finished yet. They are using it for lighter

planes but I hope this year that….

AN HON. MEMBER: Lear Jets?

MR. JEFCOAT: ….Well, I don't think the Lear Jets would get in there yet, they could get in, but they might not get out.

Pollution, I think, has been mentioned in this House more times, I

believe, than any other subject this year. It is the prime issue of the

day. With our increased population and industrial development expansion

programme, it is imperative that prompt and aggressive action be taken

to curb pollution. In the Shuswap area, water pollution requires the

most urgent attention. We have many rivers and lakes which have not

been polluted to anywhere near the danger point yet. There is no use to

say there is no pollution, because there certainly is, where immediate

action is necessary to ensure that these waters remain pure. Sewage

treatment plants must be installed at once in the populated areas.

Right now Enderby is putting in a pollution treatment plant there.

Their sewage has been going directly into the river, but as legislation

was passed last year, which you all know about, this cannot happen any

longer. Before I left home the tiles were all piled around the town,

and they are going right at it to put in a plant there as quickly as

possible. Salmon Arm is the same way. They must put in a sewage

disposal plant there and we must keep the pollutants out of these

waters. Our population increase is such, and industry increase is such,

that we must take every measure possible.

Now along with other industries, there is talk of a pulp plant

coming somewhere in the interior. My contention is, or my thoughts are,

I am not an expert on it by any means, but I do not feel that we have

sufficient water in the area, or sufficient flow of water in the area,

to warrant a pulp plant anywhere in that immediate vicinity. I think,

if it was placed anywhere on the Shuswap River, I am sure that it would

only create a settling pond for this plant, and we cannot have this

because of the heavy tourist industry that we have. The tourist

industry is the second largest industry in our part of the area, now it

is third, I believe, in the Province, but speaking of the Shuswap it is

the second largest industry and we must take every step, not only for

the tourist but for our own people, to keep these waters clean and pure

and do everything possible.

[ Page 316 ]

We know that it is a recognized fact that at least 50 per cent of

the air pollution comes from the cars that we drive. We are all guilty

to a degree of pollution. There is no use you or I or anyone else

pointing a finger at the other fellow. I'm saying that the

responsibility is yours, that the responsibility is to each and, every

one of us, and I would hope that legislation will be brought in by

Ottawa that will coincide with legislation in each and every province,

so that we can have some uniform type of controls for pollution across

Canada. Some way of controlling this before it goes too far.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Minister of

Lands, Forests, and Water Resources for immediate action taken and also

his staff this summer. People flocked into these areas up there, with a

view of staking and leasing lake-shore properties. In one issue of the

little Enderby paper alone, I think there were 28, and in another issue

I believe it was 32 applications for lake-shore leases. Now, Mr.

Speaker, half of these applications came from the City of Vancouver, or

the area of Vancouver, and the other half from Calgary. Immediately

that I saw this, I phoned the Minister and he immediately stopped any

action there until we were able to assess this situation. I got a man

to take his boat and we went up and spent a lot of time on the lake,

looked the lake-shore all over, and I made recommendations to the

Minister, which he accepted, and set these properties on the lake-shore

aside for public use, particularly on, Mabel Lake, and mainly. Mabel

Lake, for public use purposes. I think it is most essential we keep

these lake-shores as free as we, can for public use, or to a very large

degree for public use. Well, we want outsiders to come in, and I don't

think there should be any fences put up to keep them out, or anything

of this kind, but I don't think that we should allow them to come in

and stake for all around our lake-shore, and keep our own people away

from the lake. The people that have built on Crown lands in prior

years, there is not much you can do about them, this is their property,

it's the same as your home is yours.

Now, Mr. Speaker I would just like to say a few words about

ambulance service. In the per capita grant there's allowance made to

assist municipalities in ambulance service, but there is no allowance

made in the rural areas. I think that something should be done, and I

would recommend that perhaps, or would suggest that perhaps this could

be placed in under the regional concept, and the grants could be made

to the regional area to take care of ambulance service in rural areas,

where they do not have municipalities, or perhaps they could take over

all the ambulance service, as we have regional areas set up throughout

the Province. But I think it is very unfair to expect a city or

municipality to go out into the rural areas and furnish ambulance

service with no reimbursement.

Another item, Mr. Speaker, is the Canadian Pacific Railway. Now we

know that the Canadian Pacific were granted a charter in the early

days. They were given large tracts of land and so on, in lieu of

services to the people, and now they are doing everything within their

power to remove all passenger service from the Canadian Pacific

Railways across Canada, and I think this is a retrograde step. Surely

there is some way that this can be all settled, and services can be

rendered to the people of Canada. I know in my own area that the

services as they have been, have not been very good. In other words,

you couldn't get on the train between Revelstoke and Salmon Arm. If you

live alongside of the railroad track, which many people that live, for

instance, right in Sicamous, they have to watch the train go by, but if

they want to get on it they have to come into Salmon Arm or into

Revelstoke by car, and then have a car meet them in order to get home.

So the services have not been good,

AN HON. MEMBER: They are rotten.

MR. JEFCOAT: ….but now they are wanting to remove any

passenger service, and I think this is a most retrograde step, and

steps should be taken to stop this.

Now, Mr. Speaker, today has been devoted thus far largely to

schools. The Minister of Education has spent some time and the other

speakers have both spent most of their time on schools and school

problems. Now I have spoken in previous years here along lines of

construction of public buildings. I have talked with the Minister of

Public Works on several occasions, and I have spoken in previous years

on the costs of constructing public buildings. I have said that plans

for public buildings should be made available to anyone wanting to put

up public buildings, — homes, schools, hospitals, etc. These plans

should be on hand in the Department here somewhere, and they should be

made available. Cut out so much of this expense of architects and so on.

I want at this time to give you a brief report on a school that was

built in my area this summer, at Grindrod. The Minister of Education — I don't see him in the House — but he and some of his people were up at

the opening of this school this winter, and I am sure that if you would

ask him, they were very, very impressed with this school. This is a

two-room school with library, storage room, and a large activity room

and so on, and it is a beautiful school both inside and out. There are

7,900 square feet and this school was built at a cost of $84,530. This

is a saving of over $30,000 over the conventional type school, over

$30,000 saving. This school was built at a cost of $10.70 per square

foot. $10.70 per square foot. This school, I think, will meet the

requirements of any educational facilities necessary in the Province,

and I would like to see something like this used for school

construction. We have heard so much about the costs of school

construction. I think that when any school board has the initiative to

go out and put up an adequate school, a good school — it is a good

school, there is nothing wrong with it, the activity room is standard

for basketball or anything of this kind, with a stage, hardwood floors,

it is really a lovely school — and when the school board has the

initiative to go out and put up this type of school, spend the tax

dollar in this way, I think that they are to be commended for it.

Now, in my opinion, we as elected representatives, whether we sit

here in this House or in an elected school board, or whoever it is

handling the public money, I think it is the responsibility of these

people to try and cut costs, and this is one place that they could cut

costs is in the construction of buildings. So I would commend anyone,

or recommend that anyone go and look at this building, if you have any

intentions of putting up any buildings of this type, because the cost

per square foot, and I have this right from the Department was $10.70.

The savings were largely in architects, a lot of it was in architects.

Not entirely, I maybe shouldn't say largely, but a lot of it was in

architects, a lot of it was in design, the round roof design. It is

well finished inside, large high-ceilinged auditorium. The library is

upstairs and this type of a roof lends well to an upstairs.

AN HON. MEMBER: What was the total building cost?

[ Page 317 ]

MR. JEFCOAT: The total building cost was $84,530.

AN HON. MEMBER: We have a law in this Province that says no

school, no building can be built for that amount without the engineers

and architects.

MR. JEFCOAT: Okay. It was built under supervision of the

people that contracted it, etc., and this was the cost, with a saving

of $30,000. Now if you think this shouldn't be done, well, this is

fine. I have said it was done, has been done, and the people saved

$30,000 for an adequate school.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that at this time I will not take up more

time of the House, except to say that this Budget is coming up to be

voted on in a few days. I have studied this Budget and with all the

goodies that are in it, the provisions that are made, I don't see how

anyone can sit in this House and say, "I have been sent down here to

represent the people in my area, and still stand up and vote against

this Budget. I intend to support it.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Oak Bay.

MR. G. SCOTT WALLACE (Oak Bay): Mr. Speaker, before I speak

on the subject that I had originally planned, I feel there should be

some comment made in regard to some of the discussion or some of the

speech of the honourable member for Yale-Lillooet in yesterday's

debate. I think the member is to be commended for many of the very

valid issues which he raised in regard to the very broad and very

difficult and very expensive matter of total health care, which is a

phrase I would like to keep repeating and repeating and repeating.

Total health care. I won't go into great detail on that particular

subject today, because I would like to have the privilege of covering

the subject in some detail during the Estimates of the Minister of

Health. But some of the points which the honourable member raised

yesterday, I think we should all be thinking about in the meantime. He

raised such valid questions as, why does the hospital slow down at the

weekend, why is there not a greater amount of medical investigation

done on the patient before the patient enters hospital, is there some

over-utilization of facilities — and I would agree that there is, and

are we making efficient use of personnel whose education and experience

is an expensive commodity to obtain? Therefore I think that this kind

of question bears asking, and bears answering in some considerable

depth.

I think the House should be reminded, and perhaps they do not know,

that the Provincial Health Ministers and the Federal Health Minister

set up what was called a task force to look into the whole system of

delivery of health care services across Canada. The draft report of

that inquiry is available and it will be published in total and

complete form later on, but I can assure the honourable member from

Yale-Lillooet that it contains a very searching analysis and a very

thoughtful look at just many of the points he raised yesterday.

There are one or two points which I think, in fairness to all

concerned, should be clarified regarding some of the statements which

were made about the medical profession in British Columbia, and I