Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Oral Questions — 21 May 2002 (44th General Assembly, 4th Session)

2002-05-21

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

May 21, 2002 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No, 26

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

The Chair would like to welcome to the gallery today seven students from

Brother T. R. Murphy Centre and they are accompanied by Ms Eileen Brazil.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate Jessica Letto and Jody Belben from Mountain

Field Academy in Forteau. They recently received gold medals in the Regional

Heritage Fair which was held in Gunner's Cove.

These two students depict what life was like for the women of Newfoundland

and Labrador throughout history. Their presentation contained three aspects: a

model, a video and clothing of that time. Their model included some of the

traditional tools that were used to perform household chores such as galvanized

wash tubs and scrubbing boards, and I am sure all members in the House can

recall those times in their own homes and in their own families.

The video showed how women lived and worked in the 20 th century.

While they themselves were dressed in the traditional clothing of that period,

they portrayed the pride and respect of women's place in society during that

time.

Jessica and Jody will participate in the National Heritage Fair which will be

held in St. John's from July 8-15. This fair gives the students a unique way

of interacting with others across Canada. Each province and territory can send

fifteen people to this fair. The students attending will receive the opportunity

to experience the unique heritage that Newfoundland and Labrador has to offer.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask all members of this House to join me in

congratulating Jessica and Jody on the magnificent work that they have done and

to encourage them to keep it up. I also want to ask hon. members to welcome all

the students from across the country who will join us in July and wish all the

participants in the National Heritage Fair well as they pursue their specific

projects.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to inform the House of a special celebration that happened

this past weekend, where myself and the Government House Leader were fortunate

to attend. It was the opening of the Island View Citadel, a Salvation Army

citadel in Musgravetown which includes the Musgravetown-Bloomfield Salvation

Corps.

This particular Salvation Army Corps decided, a little over three years ago,

that they were going to build a new citadel and they went forward to have

fundraisers to help pay for their dream. In less than three years 181 families

have raised in excess of $600,000 towards this new Salvation Army Citadel. At

the particular service that happened on Sunday night the collection plate was

passed around and the congregation in that building, that night, donated $21,800

to put in a collection plate to help pay for the cost of the new Salvation Army

Citadel.

Mr. Speaker, in order to have any successful building committee or any

challenge that you take on you must have leaders. Today I would like to stand

and recognize Captain Ross Grandy and his wife Captain Doreen Grandy for the

leadership that they have provided and a lesson, I guess, that we can learn from

those people stepping up, responding to a need, and exercising, not only a love

of labour, but an exercise of inclusion as well because everybody within the

community, whether they are Salvation Army people or other religions, have all

felt a part of what this group of people have done in order to worship the Lord

in that particular area.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me great pleasure to inform hon. members that Angela Chaisson, a

seventeen year old Level II student at Herdman Collegiate in Corner Brook, is

Newfoundland and Labrador's Lester B. Pearson scholarship winner for the year

This scholarship, valued at $27,000 will cover the costs of tuition, books

and accommodations while Angela attends two years of study at the Lester B.

Pearson College of the Pacific in British Columbia, a college which is dedicated

to the promotion of international understanding by creating an environment in

which students from many countries and cultures are brought together to study

and serve the community.

Students graduating from this program graduate with an International

Baccalaureate, which is the equivalent to first year university at colleges and

universities throughout North America.

Angela was selected by a selection committee comprising representatives from

the Department of Education, the Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers'

Association, school districts and private industry benefactors. She was selected

on the basis of her academic achievements and her qualities of character made

evident in a detailed application and personal interview.

Mr. Speaker, this is the second consecutive year that a student from my

district has won this prestigious award. Last year's winner, Amy Pieroway,

will be returning this September for her final year. Amy is a graduate from

Pasadena Academy.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in congratulating Angela

Chaisson, the 2002 Lester B. Pearson Scholarship winner for the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there are many health issues facing people throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador. Every year in this Province, 350 women are diagnosed

with breast cancer. Women facing this disease often find great value in the

support of other women who have been there; other women who have or are living

with cancer. However, such valued support is not always possible for women in

the many rural or isolated communities of our Province.

Women living with breast cancer in this Province have found a unique and

wonderful way to support each other through this challenging journey. For the

third consecutive year, a provincial breast cancer retreat will be held in this

Province. This year's event will take place at The Salvation Army Twin Ponds

Camp just outside Gander from June 14-17. Women from all across our Province

will come together once again to share their wisdom, fears, laughter and tears.

In its first year the retreat welcomed sixty women. With the success of that

event, the registration for the second retreat last year grew to 120. This year,

the organizers believe they will increase their numbers again with expectations

of up to 200.

As always, any event of this magnitude does not happen without a great amount

of cost being associated with it. Meals, accommodations and transportation can

be expensive for some of our people. The hope of the organizers is to be able to

cover as much of the cost as possible so that any woman can attend regardless of

financial ability.

I ask all members of the House today, and anyone in the public, to support

this worthwhile cause. Maybe someone in your family, or a friend, has had to

face the breast cancer challenge. Encourage them to attend this retreat and

share their story. Maybe someone in your family or a close friend did not win

the battle with breast cancer. My own sister, Mary, lost her thirteen-month

battle with the disease on June 26, 2000, at the age of forty-eight. I always

donate to this cause thinking of her.

If you are willing to assist financially with the retreat, please contact the

Canadian Cancer Society here in St. John's. If you are not in a position to

assist financially, I ask you to remember those women in your prayers as they

continue sharing and caring with each other as they move forward in hope and

love.

I also ask all members to join with me in congratulating the organizers of

this very worthwhile project and to wish all participants a very successful,

peaceful and rewarding weekend.

Good luck to all involved.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell

Island.

MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House of a valuable

program which has promoted the active engagement of young people in the arts

through school-based projects. The program seems to integrate art in the

standard school curriculum through active participation.

The ArtsSmarts Program is a national initiative which was launched in 1998 by

the J.W. McConnell Family Foundation. The Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council

administers the program for this Province.

Through this national program, Newfoundland and Labrador has received

significant funding which has allowed 200 career artists to work with over 8,400

students and 370 teachers throughout this Province.

Twenty of the forty-nine schools which applied this year received funding,

including two schools from my own district: Paradise Elementary and Beachy Cove

Elementary. These two schools will benefit from the experience of artists like

Barbara Pratt Wangersky, Julia Pickard, Elizabeth Tucker and others who will

work with the students.

Mr. Speaker, I would like all members of the House to join with me in

congratulating the ArtsSmarts program and the J.W. McConnell Family Foundation

on their continued success, and encourage them to continue working with the

youth of our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

From April 30 to May 18, the Canadian Association for Community Living held

their eighteenth consecutive yearly fundraising Bowling Tournament in Labrador

West to raise money and awareness of persons with disabilities in the community.

This year's tournament was the largest ever with ninety-one teams

registered, with 360 participants.

I would like to thank the local businesses in Labrador West for the many

prizes donated to the tournament, particularly Marilyn Ryan of Provincial

Airlines who donated a return trip for two anywhere they fly.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Canadian Association for

Community Living, I would like to say thank you to everyone who took part to

help out in this year's tournament and wish them continued success in the

future.

Thank you.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Environment.

I must say, Mr. Speaker, after a wonderful long weekend, it looks like hon.

members opposite are a little deflated. Somebody must have let the air out of

their tires.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, on the subject of tires, this government has spent years

pulling together a tire recycling program which, once again, is borrowing a Tory

policy from back in 1999. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, once again, they did not

implement it properly. The project has been flawed from the very beginning and

can only be described as yet another example of blatant government

mismanagement.

Mr. Speaker, given the significance of this blunder, wouldn't the minister

agree that an investigation of this incident is warranted, and will he allow the

Auditor General to review the entire tender process, including the contract

award and efforts to implement the project so that it does not occur again in

the future?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, first off, this is a policy that we have

been pushing for the last five or six years as a government. So it is not a

policy that was taken from anywhere else, number one. Number two is -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. K. AYLWARD: If the Opposition wants to blame whoever, that is up to

them. We are undertaking to get the policy to work. So the contractor could not

fulfil the obligations set out. We are now going to make a decision in the next

day or so about the process to get this policy to move. We are going to do that.

I have already asked for a review of the process itself and that is being

undertaken, as to the process that occurred. We are going to proceed with the

policy and put it in place and make sure that this works for the environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I guess if the minister had not been recycled himself, maybe it

might have been done right if the Acting Minister of Human Resources was

involved.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, this entire contract has been mishandled from

the beginning. Routine commercial checks through Dun and Bradstreet and even

with its own Department of Justice could have revealed that lawsuits and fraud

charges, which were pending against municipal recyclers and Harry Spurrell,

would have been revealed.

Would the minister tell this House, were routine procedures followed in

conducting a credit check? And if not, why not?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, the normal routines were followed, but I

have already asked for further review. The Auditor General is reviewing the

Multi-Material Stewardship Board. So if the Auditor General wants to review the

contract on how it was allocated, we have no problem with that. There is no

problem with that. The bottom line though is that - and I am not into, and we

are not into over here, assessing blame to a company or contractor in trying to

get them convicted about something that is in a different procedure. We

evaluated the proposals. They were evaluated by officials and there were

recommendations given. What we have to do now is move forward with the policy

and get it implemented for the benefit of the environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of the minister I will repeat my question and

ask him if routine checks were done by the department with Dun and Bradstreet,

and with his own Department of Justice, to ascertain whether in fact there are

any pending lawsuits or charges against Harry Spurrell and Municipal Recyclers?

Was the check done? That is all I am asking, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to get the exact detail of

all the checks that were done, and again to say that processes were followed

that are normal in the evaluation process. I will undertake to get more detail

on that. Secondly, the Auditor General has been reviewing the Multi-Material

Stewardship Board and is reviewing the contracts, my understanding, and we will

just check that to make sure.

Again, what we are going to do is proceed to go forward, to implement the

policy, to make sure that this policy works, that it works for the benefit of

the environment and it works for the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, if this government cannot even manage a tire

recycling contract how can we trust them to negotiate a multi-billion dollar

deal on Voisey's Bay?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of the Multi-Material Stewardship

Board indicated to the media last week that he had no idea how much money has

been collected to date from the $3 charge. I would ask the minister: How much

money has, in fact, been collected to date? If Mr. Seabright is not privy to

this information isn't this yet another example of poor contract

administration?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, we can undertake to get those numbers and

details from the Multi-Material Stewardship Board. That is not a problem. We

will get those numbers.

Again, the contractor could not fulfil the contract. I must say, given the

encouragement from the other side during that process, I am not surprised, as

they tried to rip down, as they attempted to rip down the company in public.

They ripped the company down in public, in the public eye, in this House, and

now we are here doing it again today.

Mr. Speaker, the contractor has now withdrawn from the contract. It is a good

environmental policy and we will be, very shortly, undertaking to get the policy

up and running and working well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, for an old retread government, they are not

having a good year, are they? Not at all, no.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister again: Is the minister telling this

House that he does not know, to date, how much money has been collected by this

government on the $3 charge? Yes or no, Minister?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure of every copper that we have

over at the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board for our recycling program. On the

tiring recycling, I am not sure down to the dollar. That is why I am saying to

the hon. Leader of the Opposition that when I get those numbers - and I will get

them right quick; there is no problem to get them - I will have them for him and

he will have them very shortly, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is unbelievable, Mr. Speaker. They do not even know how much money has

been collected. I cannot believe that we just got this answer from this

government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell the people that, when he

finds out, if he finds out, if he knows, will the hundreds of thousands of

dollars that have been collected over the last two months be returned to the

people of this Province? Or will it go into general revenues and be used like

the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund was used, to offset the

mismanagement of this government? Is that what it is going to be used for?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, he is making more politics. The Leader of

the Opposition is making more politics out of this. We are trying to resolve the

issue in a serious way to make it work as a policy. The dollar figures of what

we have collected, we will have that for him. I am not the accountant for the

MMSB. We will get the numbers and we will bring them and make sure they are

fully aware. The money is collected. It is in a trust fund. It will be used for

the program.

In the next day or so, the details of how we will unveil the rest of this

program and how we intend to go forward will be announced. I said that earlier.

I will say it again, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we are not playing politics in this House. We

are here to get answers to reasonable questions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the only place that we can get answers is from

the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board, and they are exempt from the Freedom of

Information Act. We cannot even find out how they came up with the $3 number for

the tax.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell this House and the people of the Province

why this group is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act? Or is this just

another way of his open and accessible government keeping information from the

people of the Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, this government is more open and accountable

than any government in the history of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: So, we do not need any lessons from the Leader of the

Opposition or the other side about that issue. No problem.

On that, we are looking at right now, making the MMSB - make sure that it

comes under the guidelines of our Freedom of Information Act. We just amended

and changed the Freedom of Information Act, Mr. Speaker. We are looking at that

right now, as a matter of fact, as one of the changes we are going to bring. We

are also looking at a restructuring of the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board. We

will have recommendations on that very shortly, Mr. Speaker, and we have a whole

list of new environmental initiatives that we are looking at which can be

positive for the environment, including this one, as soon as it is straightened

out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Environment

could explain to me how an environmental cleanup of transformers containing PCBs

at the Makinsons site, that were supposed to have been disposed of properly, a

project that was paid for by government, how those transformers could be

disposed of at the New Harbour dump site, leaving workers vulnerable, leaving

the general public at risk, people who use the landfill site, people who swim

and fish nearby? How could that happen on a project that was supposed to have

been paid for and overseen by the Department of Environment?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, the alarmist critic is back. The alarmist

critic is back again. I tell you, Mr. Speaker, he is at it again.

Mr. Speaker, the situation is, the PCBs from the Makinsons cleanup, the scrap

material, was cleaned of PCBs before it was transferred to the waste disposal

site. But, again, the concerns that were expressed by the individual who was

concerned about the New Harbour dump site - I asked the officials again this

morning to give me some more details about that situation, even though I have

been advised that they were cleaned before the material was sent, Mr. Speaker.

Even with that, I have asked them to get me a little more detail about the whole

process and the transfer of the material.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is absolutely not true.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. T. OSBORNE: I will ask the minister this: Minister, there were

workers on that site, at the New Harbour dump site, who will admit to the fact

that people went in and removed the casings from the transformers to be used as

stoves, to be used as distribution boxes for their septic systems. They have

even removed the PCBs from those transformers to be used as chainsaw oil.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.

MR. T. OSBORNE: How could that happen on a project that was supposed to

have been paid for and overseen by this provincial government?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, he has now raised these new points. We will

have them checked and have them reviewed, Mr. Speaker. The officials advise me

that the process was, that site was cleaned up along with the material. The

member has raised a couple of concerns here. I will have them checked out, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will ask the minister this: Considering there were transformers containing

PCBs dumped at the New Harbour dump site, will the minster tell us when that

site will be properly cleaned a second time - that these PCBs were supposed to

be cleaned and paid for by government - when that site will be properly cleaned

to protect the general public who use that site and who fish and swim nearby?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, we have already announced a waste management

plan to deal with the 200-odd landfills that we have in the Province. That is

why we have announced the program, that is why we have announced the policy, and

this summer a number of these landfills will be shutting down as we go forward

and find new alternative sites.

Mr. Speaker, I assure him that this one is already on our radar screen to get

rid of as quickly as we can, to deal with it. We have already said that publicly

three or four weeks ago, and we look forward to having a number of our landfill

sites shut down and proper landfill sites built and located in the proper

locations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

People who are using this site cannot wait for the normal process to take

place. They cannot wait until 2010 when this process will be complete and this

landfill closes down. Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister again, considering the

fact there are supposed to be PCBs dumped on that site will you take it upon

yourself to ensure that this site is cleaned up as soon as possible? Give us a

time frame.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, it is a good thing they are not playing

politics with the environment. That is all I can say. Let me tell you, yes, we

have already indicated that to the Opposition critic. As a matter of fact, there

is a waste management study underway as we speak with recommendations coming

within the next thirty to sixty days. So I can assure him, it is high on our

radar screen. We intend on dealing with that one, plus many more sites in this

Province, and cleaning up our environment for the good of the place.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For years we have seen foreign fishing fleets continue to fish outside the

200-mile limit taking many species, excessive amounts of fish, that are under

moratorium. We have demanded action by the federal government and finally,

earlier this year, we have seen the federal government take some action, albeit

insufficient, and close our ports to the Faroese and Estonian fleets.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Fisheries today: In view of the

fact that he has supported this action in the past, does he continue today to

support the action of the federal government to close our ports to fleets who

overfish outside the 200-mile limit?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the hon. member opposite asked me that question a month or so ago. I

certainly have made representation, both publicly and privately, to the federal

minister telling him that he did indeed do the right thing; and, no, I have not

changed my mind. The fact of the matter is, the Faroese were overfishing their

quotas in the 3L area. I understand that they were supposed to have fished for

roughly six days to catch their quotas and they fished in excess of 100 days

last year. Instead of taking sixty-eight tons of shrimp they took somewhere in

the area of 1,000 tons of shrimp. I said it publicly before and privately to the

minister, and I haven't changed my mind, no.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits &

White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the new MP for

Bonavista-Trinity-Conception is the Premier's good friend and the good friend

of the Minister of Fisheries here. He is on his way to Ottawa today and is being

sworn in, and his first order of business is to present a petition to the House

of Commons demanding the reopening of Canadian ports to Estonian and Faroese

fleets. In view of this, I ask the minister, what are his plans to deal with

this action? Does he have any plans to contact his counterpart, his former

friend, the MP for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception, and raise to him the concerns

of the people of this Province on the action that he has taken and urge him to

change his stand and urge him to demand more vigilance on the part of the

federal government on this front?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, like the hon. member opposite said, the new federal MP for

Bonavista-Trinity-Conception is indeed a friend of mine, but like all good

friends, we sometimes have a difference of opinion and we have one on this

issue. I think that the federal minister made the right decision when it came to

closing the ports to the Faroese. I understand that is having a negative impact

on a couple of towns in the federal member's riding and that he is doing what

he can for his constituents, which I would expect him to do so. But, Mr.

Speaker, that does not change my mind or the government's stand on the need to

stop foreign overfishing on the Nose and the Tail of the Grand Banks. Again, I

say, we support the federal minister and his stand against closing ports to the

Faroese.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits

& White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Almost every time that I have stood in this House in the past couple of

months and asked questions on foreign overfishing the minister has asked me to

come onboard, to stand with him and fight the same fight on foreign overfishing.

So, I will ask the minister today, will he ask his former colleague, his cousin

who is in Ottawa today, to stand with him and stand with the people of this

Province, to stand up against the foreign overfishing that devastates many

communities in this Province, not just the community of Bay Roberts?

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The new Member for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception certainly understands where I

stand on this issue and the members in the House of Assembly. Again, I would

like to thank the hon. member for coming onboard and maybe he can let the member

in Ottawa know because yes, Mr. Efford knows my position and he has chosen to

take the one to look out to the interests of the people in his district, but

that does not change our view. We still agree with the federal minister in

closing those ports.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Tourism.

On April 18, I asked the minister why Labrador was omitted from a national

magazine advertising campaign and she assured me that Labrador would be a part

of future marketing. This past weekend Rendez-vous Canada 2002 in Halifax had

over 250 tourism buyers from more than fifty countries around the world. There

were three separate tours arranged to visit this Province with thirty-nine

tourism buyers and media representatives. Among the three sites visited where:

St. John's, Cape Spear, Witless Bay, Signal Hill, Deer Lake, Gros Morne, L'Anse

aux Meadows, Rocky Harbour, Woody Point and others. Despite the Access

North-Labrador 2000 campaign, with Labrador being the focus, not one stop was

made in Labrador. While in L'Anse aux Meadows the tour could have, and should

have - at least, I say to the minister - visited the Basque whaling station at

Red Bay and the Moravian Mission in Labrador.

I ask the minister why, especially with the focus on Access North this year,

was the opportunity to introduce worldwide tourism buyers to Labrador firsthand

not part of the tour, particularly when your department contributed towards the

cost of this tour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BETTNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member has identified two separate marketing initiatives which took place

over the last few days, the Rendez-vous Canada, which was taking place in

Halifax this weekend and continues on. During that event buyers come from all

over the world to look at the products that are available and to determine

whether there is something that could be of interest to people who are planning

vacations and other leisure travel, and, Mr. Speaker, at that event we had

representatives from my department who were promoting all parts of the Province

and were available for meetings with people who attended that event to

familiarize them with things that all of this Province had to offer, including

Labrador.

The other point that was mentioned was that there were three familiarization

tours which were taking place in the Province during this past week, and those

tours were arranged, again, between staff and individual companies or

individuals, and it is for the purpose of providing them with a first-hand view

of certain parts of the Province, perhaps that they have expressed an interest

in, in order to lure them to the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude her answer.

MS BETTNEY: Mr. Speaker, we promote Labrador in all cases when we are

promoting other parts of the Province, but in these cases alone Labrador was not

on the itinerary.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me say to the minister, the ads that ran in the last magazines of Maclean's

and Time cost probably in the neighbourhood of $300,000 with no mention

of Labrador. Now this tour is taking place with no stops in Labrador. What is

your department's commitment to promoting tourism in Labrador in a year that

your government has designated Labrador as the tourist destination, the Access

North awareness program, in the Province for this year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BETTNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Our commitment to promote Labrador is absolutely huge this year. Mr. Speaker,

after I responded to the previous question, I also brought to the member

opposite, knowing his interest in this area, copies of the ads that were - I

brought it to the member so that he could see first-hand the high-quality ads

that are going to be running both here and all across the country, and in some

of the same kind of magazines as the member has mentioned. Those things will

happen. There is a plan in place for the timing of those ads to take place.

There is going to be distribution of a CD throughout all households in this

Province on the Spirit of the North, Mr. Speaker.

In addition to this, just this past week, Destination Labrador, themselves,

which are the marketing body for Labrador, released their strategic plan

indicating how they plan to double the market every four to seven years in

Labrador for tourism. So, there are exciting plans for tourism in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this time last year in the House of Assembly, I asked the

question to the Premier dealing with lobbyist registration, the use of

consultants, particularly with respect to a close associate of his in Liberal

parties, Mr. Gary Anstey. He indicated at that time, under a question, that to

his knowledge no meetings had occurred between him or any other ministers.

I would like to ask the Minister of Mines and Energy today - our information

is that, on behalf of Inco, Mr. Anstey has met with you on several different

occasions: Would you be able to tell us what was discussed at those meetings and

what were the details of the lobbying effort by him on behalf of Inco?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In our negotiations with Inco on the Voisey's Bay file we have, as I have

indicated quite publicly, a group of officials who work for us from within the

bureaucracy. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, we have independent legal advice

that we hire. We have independent financial advice, we have independent market

advice with respect to the nickel industry generally. We bring to the table

those whom we feel can best help us negotiate, hopefully, the arrangement that

has to be concluded one way or the other with respect to the project.

From Inco's perspective, they come to the table with a group of individuals

as well. That group is not always consistent, as is ours. Depending on what we

are negotiating, there may be different people at the table. But, let me say

this: We do not ask Inco who they want to bring to the table. We expect they

bring to the table people that they believe are best suited to their purposes.

They hire people externally, that they believe are useful to them in their

processes. To the extent that Mr. Anstey may be part of the Inco group on some

basis - because I, frankly, have never asked nor do I know whether he is an

employee, whether he is a lobbyist, whether he is an external consultant. I

suspect he is an external consultant because that is what he does for a living.

To the extent that he may be there, he is there at the invitation and at the

request of Inco, and we talk to everybody that they bring to the table, they

talk to everybody we bring to the table, and that is the way that business and

life carries on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What is at stake here, the minster knows, as everyone in this House knows,

that Mr. Anstey has unrestricted access to any minister in this House. I asked

him the question: Could he inform this House of the meetings that he has had

with Mr. Anstey - because he has had them - could he inform this House what were

the details of those meetings vis-- vis Inco or any other issue that he may

have met with the minister on?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can tell the hon. member that anybody in this Province, to the extent that

time is available and that the issue is pertinent, has unrestricted access to

this minister at least, to the extent that I can make myself available.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: We do not, Mr. Speaker, make ourselves unrestrictedly

available to specific individuals. We are open to meet with anybody who has an

interest to raise on behalf of their proponent or themselves directly with

respect to development in the Province. If the hon. member wants to know to what

extent Mr. Anstey may have been involved in discussions with respect to the Inco

file, he should ask the people who hire him, he should ask the people who engage

him, he should ask Inco themselves, to what extent they use or do not use Mr.

Anstey; because I can tell the hon. member that we meet with all that Inco

brings forward, as they do on our behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last year there was no lobbying activity. This year, they are

willing to meet with anybody and everybody vis--vis anything and everything.

Mr. Anstey's unrestricted access to this government is true, Mr. Speaker.

Let me ask the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, has he - my

information is, and our information is, that he has met with Mr. Anstey on

behalf of clients that Mr. Anstey has. Could he inform us of the details of the

meetings he has had with Mr. Anstey, who has lobbied on behalf of clients who

may be doing business with the minister's department?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: I am trying to remember. I cannot remember ever meeting with

Gary Anstey in my office.

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on tomorrow I will give the

following Private Member's Motion:

WHEREAS the fishery and aquaculture are extremely important parts of the

economic and social well being of this Province; and

WHEREAS the current state of our understanding of the fishery resources off

our coast is an underdeveloped area and more research is needed in this field;

and

WHEREAS bringing administrative functions closer to the people who pursue the

fishery would result in a better exchange of ideas and better management;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly support a comprehensive

review of the organization of the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans

with the purpose of providing improved services to the fishing industry in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I continue to rise today to present yet another petition on roads in this

Province. This particular petition is from an area in Green Bay and in

particular, King's Point.

We, the undersigned residents of King's Point, in the District of Baie

Verte, do hereby petition the House of Assembly to upgrade and pave our roads.

The deplorable and unfit conditions of the roads in our area jeopardize the

safety of residents and the travelling public, hurt economic growth

opportunities, and portray government's lack of commitment to rural areas of

this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to continue in this House of Assembly, and as the

minister just pointed out -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, I know what number she has it down as, but we are going

to continue to present petitions on behalf of people in this Province on the

situation with the deplorable road conditions throughout the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that just a couple of weeks ago the Premier was in

my district and the depot people had to go out and put pylons in front of the

potholes so that the Premier would not go down in the potholes. That is how bad

it is in the district, Mr. Speaker.

The people in King's Point and Rattling Brook, by the way - and we talk

about economic conditions - they have the only operating gold mine in this

Province, Mr. Speaker. As the trucks continue to transport the ore away from

that site to the milling operations at Nugget Pond, the roads get worse by the

day.

Here is the point today, Mr. Speaker, and here is what people in my district

in King's Point and Rattling Brook, in particular, told me over the weekend.

Day after day they see this - the good news is that the mine is operating in

their district but at the same time the threat, even the threat that the only

operating gold mine in Newfoundland and Labrador could be shut down very soon

because they do not have the basic infrastructure of a road. Now, what kind of a

sad statement is that in this Province today, when people realize that their

road structure - some twenty-five to thirty years old, this particular road into

King's Point - day after day these trucks, which are operating the only gold

mine, back and forth over that - and the minister knows this. These huge trucks

going back and forth over that road and by the day it is getting worse. It is

like waves going down over the road, Mr. Speaker.

On top of all that, we have school children who are travelling on these roads

everyday and the unsafe conditions. It is absolutely despicable that throughout

this Province people have to take the time to sign petitions to come to this

House to ask for a simple basic infrastructure so that we can keep the only

operating gold mine operating in this Province. It is shameful. The minister

knows it is shameful. It is about time they put a long-term plan in place to

address this despicable situation when it comes to roads in this Province.

I will continue to present petitions and support the people of King's Point

and Rattling Brook, in my district, for getting that road paved like it should

be.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a number of residents from

Labrador West. The prayer of the petition is:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

parliament assembled;

WHEREAS in 1998 the Province provided funding for four new MS drugs; and

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Program from which

this plan is funded only provides medication coverage for seniors under the

senior's plan and for people on income support; and

WHEREAS these drugs are very expensive; and

WHEREAS all citizens in every other Canadian province can receive assistance

with the high cost of MS drugs, using a co-payment or sliding scale programs,

not limited to social assistance income levels; and

WHEREAS these drugs can significantly improve the quality of life for people

with MS.

We, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to direct the government

to implement a co-payment or sliding scale program for drugs for MS so that

people who do not qualify for assistance under the existing programs can get

financial assistance with these high cost drugs, as is the case in every other

Canadian province.

Mr. Speaker, I have stood in this House and spoken on this on a number of

occasions over the past couple of weeks and I have questioned the minister in

Question Period to try and get the government to introduce a system that will

help alleviate the high cost to people who suffer from MS in this Province with

the purchase of these drugs that they require. Each time the response from the

government has been: they cannot afford it. That argument, as I said in the

past, simply does not make sense because it is not a matter of whether or not

government will pay, it is a matter of what they force people, individual

families, to do to themselves before they will. If they ruin themselves

financially and do away with all of their savings, do away with any RRSPs they

may have, any children's education fund that they may have set up, once they

expend all these monies, Mr. Speaker, then this government will provide funding

to them to help purchase the drugs; but until then, they refuse to do so. That

is highly unfair to the men and women in this Province who work hard for a

living to try and provide for their families to make as good a life as they

possibly can, to have to use their money for a drug to treat an illness that

they did not bring on themselves, that they did not do through abuse in one way

or another, but simply inherited this disease and now they have to pay and

suffer financially.

It is very unsettling to believe that we are the only Province in this

country that does not offer any support whatsoever to people who are afflicted

with MS. I think it is time the government changed their drug formula plan to

include these drugs and to put in (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: By leave just to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying, I think it is important that government recognize that

people cannot afford these drugs on their own. They need assistance, and that

assistance is not just given to them, it is a sliding scale program based on

income. It is a co-op type of program and is provided for in every other

jurisdiction in this country. It is high time, Mr. Speaker, that this government

got their act together and provided the same type of support to the people of

this Province.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition as well. The petition reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland in legislative session

convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland;

WHEREAS Route 235 from Birchy Cove to Bonavista has not been upgraded since

it was paved approximately twenty-five years ago; and

WHEREAS this

section of Route 235 is in such a terrible condition that

vehicles are being damaged, including the school buses serving schools in the

area, and school children are finding their daily trips over the road very

difficult;

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to upgrade and pave the approximately four kilometres of Route 235 from Birchy

Cove to Bonavista.

Mr. Speaker, this is another petition, another of many petitions that I have

stood here in the House of Assembly, pretty well begging the government of today

to look at the four kilometres that exists which needs to be upgraded and

repaved between Birchy Cove and Bonavista.

There has been some feeble attempts made to look after this

section of road

over the past number of years. In fact, there have been four attempts made to

upgrade and pave the five kilometres of road that we started out with. First,

there was some ditching done and culvert replacement. Then the Department of

Works, Services and Transportation went down and paved a small

section of that

particular route last year. I understood, in talking to the minister, that it

was hoped it would be finished last year, but because of the cost of asphalt,

because of the cost of paving last year, the programs had to be cut back. This

was a program that had to be cut back and suffered due to the cutbacks and the

high cost of doing road work last year.

The people in this particular area have gone out and stood by the side of the

road - they have not disrupted traffic - handing out pamphlets asking people to

support them in their quest to have this

section of road, one of the main

thoroughfares leading into Bonavista, upgraded and paved. There is four

kilometres of road there that needs to be done in order to complete the section.

I met with the minister on several occasions and said to him: Look, if we can

get two-and-a-half kilometres done this year then that will look after the major

problem of going around a pond there where the road has deteriorated to such an

extent that you are driving on, not only the gravel shoulder, but the gravel

centre of that particular road.

Mr. Speaker, the people are asking me to present their petitions. They are

asking me to put in a plea to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation

to have this small

section of roadway included in this capital works budget. It

not a side street, it is not a side road, it is one of the main thoroughfares.

In fact, it is the main thoroughfare from Plate Cove all the way down with about

fifteen communities leading to the Town of Bonavista.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: The Town of Bonavista and the councillors in Bonavista

have come forward and have met with ministers prior to the sitting minister and

supported the people in that particular area there to have this

section of road

upgraded and paved. I put in a plea once more today, Mr. Speaker, to say to the

minister: Include this

section of roadway, the two-and-a-half to three

kilometres, to be upgraded and paved in this year's capital works budget.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I rise to present a petition on Voisey's Bay from a number of people

from Pouch Cove. It is a similar petition that we receive almost on a daily

basis now regarding Voisey's Bay, and I will read the prayer of the petition:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative

session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador - basically the prayer is:

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, we have to ask the question, where we are receiving so many of

these petitions: Why are we receiving so many petitions? Basically, the people

of this Province do not trust this Administration to make a deal with Inco on

Voisey's Bay.

We are receiving many petitions here and I expect we will be presenting many

Division

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the motion, please rise.

CLERK: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs; the hon. the

Minister of Justice and Attorney General; the hon. the Minister of Education;

the hon. the Minister of Environment; the hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs; Mr. Walsh; the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board; the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy; the hon. the Minister

of Works, Services and Transportation; the hon. the Minister of Forest Resources

and Agrifoods, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services; the hon.

the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture; the hon. the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation; the hon. the Minister of Youth Services and

Post-Secondary Education and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women; the

hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands; the hon the Minister of

Labour; the hon. the Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs; the hon. the

Minister of Human Resources and Employment; Ms Hodder; Mr. Andersen; Ms Jones;

Mr. Sweeney.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Edward Byrne; Mr. Ottenheimer; Mr. Shelley; Mr. Jack Byrne;

Mr. Sullivan; Ms Sheila Osborne; Mr. Fitzgerald; Mr. Hodder; Mr. Hunter; Mr. Tom

Osborne; Mr. Taylor; Mr. Hedderson; Mr. Young; Mr. Harris; Mr. Collins.

Mr. Speaker, 22 ayes and 15 nays.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion carries.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear1

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Order 1, Mr. Speaker.

I believe the hon. the Opposition House Leader adjourned the debate.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today we are debating a motion put forward by the Minister of Finance, that

this House support the budgetary motion of the government. That means the Budget

as presented in the Estimates by the government.

Mr. Speaker, before I get into my commentary in the time I have left, I want

to again pay recognition to the Member for Ferryland, the Finance critic, who,

over the last several weeks, in dealing with the Budget, as presented by the

government, in his capacity as critic for Finance, I suppose, unprecedented, in

many ways, in terms of his response. For those who may be watching, the Finance

critic on the Official Opposition, according to our rules, has unlimited time.

You know that when you get the Government House Leader standing up asking the

Speaker what is the difference between unlimited and eternity, then the Member

for Ferryland has absolutely done his job.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: I believe almost twelve hours in terms of consistent and

constant debate dealing with - that is outside of the Estimates as presented by

the government in terms of commentary dealing with a wide variety of areas that

all members here on this side of the House will have the opportunity, within

twenty minutes per member, to deal with.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to deal with a couple of notions this afternoon

with respect to the Budget Debate, and I would like to begin with the Budget

itself. It has been a long practice, or it has been a practice of this

government, that we have seen time over time, certainly since 1996, when Budget

day is dealt with in terms of the glamour of it, government putting its best

foot forward announcing that the budget this year, or each and every year, is

very manageable. Yet, we find out subsequently, particularly when the

Comptroller General and the Auditor General release their information, their

reports, six months in or a year later, that the budget situation is going to be

far worse.

Government's explanation over time has been a description of accounting

methods, accrual based accounting. The fact of the matter is, that over the last

several years we have added significantly to the debt of our Province and the

budget; and this year's budget is no different. The budget forecast, in terms

of a deficit, is a $93 million deficit. That is what government has said it is

going to be. There is no way that that target will be on simply because the

numbers do not add up.

We see in a bill presented before the House, for example, Bill 7,

an act

requesting of this Legislature that each member in this Legislature pass a bill

giving government the authority to borrow up to $200 million above and beyond

what was presented in the Budget Estimates without even itemizing what was going

to be in that budget.

The Minister of Finance has explained in certain detail what that potentially

could be used for. But, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the bill - and this is the

telling comment - if you look at the legislation, here we have a government -

just on the heels of presenting a budget prior to the Easter recess -

introducing a bill that requests of this House, "An Act To Authorize The

Raising Of Money By Way Of Loan By The Province." People must understand

the amount that this government is looking for is in addition to, on top of,

what the House has been asked to approve in the Budget Estimates, approve and

generally give government the authority to go on and spend money in accordance

with what is in the estimates.

Bill 7, we do not know what it is going to be spent on. The minister has

talked about, on any number of occasions when this was first raised, of what it

is going to be used for. The Acting Minister of Mines and Energy one day I

recall - I asked questions in the House on it - gave a completely different

answer. He said: Yes, we would itemize what we are looking for with respect to

Bill 7. The next day, in a hastily called press conference at 4 o'clock on a

Friday afternoon, the Minister of Finance contradicts what the acting minister

said the day before where there would be no itemization provided for.

Here is what gets people worried, here is what raises questions when you look

at the wording of the bill. The resolution is: To Be Submitted To A Committee Of

The Whole House In Relation To The Raising Of Loans By The Province. "That

is is expedient to bring in a measure to authorize the raising from time to time

by way of loan on the credit of the province the sum of $200,000,000 and the

additional sum or sums of money that may be...." - this is interesting, the

language is very interesting because the language in legislation, as the old

saying goes, is that the devil is always in the details. Here is the language:

"...from time to time by way of loan on the credit of the province the sum

of $200,000,000 and the additional sum or sums of money that may be required to

retire, repay, renew or refund securities issued under

an Act of the province or

that may be paid into the Newfoundland and Labrador Government Sinking

Fund."

The explanatory note with the bill is one sentence, Mr. Speaker. You would

anticipate that when you are looking for $200 million from this Legislature, to

do a variety of matters, that it would be outlined what it is for. The

explanatory note is very telling. What is not there is even more telling; but

here is what the explanatory note says: "This Bill would authorize the

government to raise $200,000,000 by way of loan for the purpose of the

Consolidated Revenue Fund."

Now when I first got the bill I was expecting to read on. One sentence, $200

million. Every member in this House is being asked to provide this government

with the authority to borrow $200 million, on top of the budget that was just

presented to the House several weeks ago; a $93 million deficit. Ninety-three

million of that $200 million is for - my colleague from Ferryland has indicated

correctly - a projected deficit. The other $107 million, what is it for?

You would anticipate, with a bill like this, Mr. Speaker, that under the

explanatory note there would be an itemized list of what it could be used for.

If there are legitimate and bonafide explanations that some of it can be only

described as raising - as it says here - certain sums to take advantage of

better interest rates, fair enough, but you would expect even that to be

itemized. What is the money for?

The minister talked about in her explanation, in response to our critic, that

it is for hospitals, possibly school boards. It could be for anything. The fact

of the matter is, that in her explanation one would have thought that in a bill

looking for $200 million they would have indicated more than a sentence.

Mr. Speaker, it goes on to say in this particular piece of legislation - and

this is one of the reasons why members on this side of the House have some

difficulty in supporting, in principle, the budgetary motion supporting the

Budget as presented by the Minister of Finance and President Treasury Board

because what the Budget is here and what was presented on Budget Day, in terms

of an anticipated or expected $93 million deficit is not in fact what it is

going to end up to be. We can hide behind

definitions. We can say we used this

method of accounting as compared to that method of accounting but what people in

the Province want to know is that at the end of this year: How much money did we

take in from a variety of sources called revenues? How much did we spend from

those revenues or in excess of those revenues? You are left with what actually

our budget will be or our deficit will be for the current year.

I believe my colleague from Ferryland touched on this in detail, it could be

as high as $350 million to $400 million.

MR. SULLIVAN: I say it will be closer to $500 million than it is what

they said.

MR. E. BYRNE: Now, that is pretty telling. The critic for finance, who

understands the financial situation the Province is in, who understands the

budgetary process as good, if not better, than anybody in this House, talks

about that it could be as high as between $400million and $500 million.

MR. SULLIVAN: The Bank of Montreal said close to $300 million not

counting the accrual method.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is right, that is exactly right, good point. The

Member for Ferryland has offered me another point that he has talked about. The

Bank of Montreal has said that using their own accounting method could be as

high as $300 million. That is not including, according to the accrual method,

extras that were coming.

Mr. Speaker, that is one of the reasons why we find it difficult to stand

today to support the motion as put forward by the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board, to support her resolution.

Here are some more details on the bill, for example. Remember, people should

be aware and should remember that in this Bill 7, looking for the authority to

borrow $200 million, $93 million of that $200 million to go towards the

projected deficit this year, that the other $107 million we do not know what

they are looking for it for.

It goes on to say that the

short title - well, this is the Loan Act, 2002.

"The Lieutenant-Governor in Council is authorized to raise by way of

loan...." That is the Cabinet, which means, once this bill is passed,

Cabinet, seventeen or eighteen members of a forty-eight seat Legislature, have

the authority then to make decisions for the rest of us. "(

a) the sums of

money that are required for the Consolidated Revenue Fund to make good, in whole

or in part, actual or estimated deficiencies between provincial revenue and

expenditures..." - that is what we just talked about, between what we take

in, ultimately, and what we are responsible for funding and what we will say we

will fund and what the difference will be - "...or to provide for

expenditures..." - and here is the key, Mr. Speaker, right in the language

of the legislation - "...or to provide for expenditures made or to be

made".

So the Cabinet - (inaudible) this piece of legislation - the Cabinet will

decide where that money will go, on expenditures that may be announced in this

Budget or for other plans that may not be announced in this Budget, because the

bill says it: for expenditures to be made or not to be made, on expenditures

that may occur.

One is left with the question: How can we support a Budget put forward by

this government on Budget day, which has projected a $93 million deficit, and

then three to four weeks later a bill is tabled in this House for all of us to

see where government is looking for money above and beyond that.

AN HON. MEMBER: Two hundred?

MR. E. BYRNE: Two hundred million. We assume $93 million for the

projected deficit on current account, and another $107 million. How can anybody

truly have faith in the Budget of this Province when that sort of occurrence is

taking place?

Mr. Speaker, there has been much made about the Opposition's questions on

this matter, much talked about, public commentary coming from the opposite side.

Well, this is not an usual process. This happens every year. This dates back to

thirty years ago under Frank Moores. The fact of the matter is this: We are

talking about a significant sum of money. We are talking about $200 million. We

are talking about $93 million which we know is going to the current deficit, but

we are talking about this government asking us, the members in this Legislature,

to give Cabinet the authority to spend an additional $107 million without

telling the people of the Province where it is going to go.

On top of that, in the House, there is another piece of legislation called

Bill 8. Bill 8 is also a piece of legislation associated with the Budget. Bill 8

is,

An Act Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain

Additional Expenses Of The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending March

31, 2002 And For Other Purposes Relating To The Public Service.

Mr. Speaker, this is essentially a bill that talks about the use of special

warrants. A special warrant, for those who are unclear of what special warrants

are: special warrants are a device or a mechanism that can be used by the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council, the Cabinet of the day, to deal with emergencies

that may arise, to deal with situations that would allow a Cabinet to respond to

situations to ensure that the prosecution or delivery of public services goes on

uninterrupted to the people of the Province. But, Mr. Speaker, this particular

piece of legislation, in the use of special warrants, when the House of Assembly

is open, the requirement for such expenditures are supposed to be tabled in this

House. The Auditor General, in her own commentary, talked about the use of

special warrants and how flagrant they have been used, where they have not been

tabled while the House is in session. This is one bill that is asking us again,

in this Legislature - and let me read it. The resolution is clear, and it is

important for those who may be listening, that the resolution: To be submitted

to a Committee of the Whole House in relation of the granting of supply to Her

Majesty.

Be it resolved by the House of Assembly in Legislative Session

convened, as follows: That it is expedient to introduce a measure to provide for

the granting to Her Majesty for defraying certain additional expenses of the

public service for the financial year ending March 31, 2002, the sum of

approximately $51 million.

Mr. Speaker, this money has already been spent. It has been spent by special

warrant, and we have been asked again. Now, all of the money here may be legit.

All of what has been spent with respect to what is itemized - and that is the

difference in this bill and another bill - this one is itemized by department.

For example, Heads of Expenditure: $2,500,000 to Works, Services and

Transportation; $10,420,000 towards Education; $34,753,100 towards Health and

Community Services; and $3,343,700 to Justice.

Now, while all of this may be legitimate, may be bona fide, the fact of the

matter is that we are talking about a particular process where we, as a

Legislature, are being asked to approve the spending of money that has already

been spent. That is at issue here. Normally, when the House is open, and it

should always be when the House is open, that any use of special warrants should

come before this House.

There are legitimate reasons for special warrants. I can think of any number

in the last nine years. It could be, for example, that a situation may present

itself that one of the ferries that the Province owns and operates for the

people of the Province when the House is not open - for example, it could be in

July; let's take that as an example - that there is a serious breakdown of

that service and, as a result, Cabinet must meet to ensure that the service is

provided no matter where it may be - the Southwest Coast, the Labrador run, Bell

Island, Little Bay Islands, to Fogo Island, Change Islands - wherever that may

occur. If there is a serious interruption, that Cabinet must meet and certain

expenditures must be required, by all means, the use of a special warrant is

designed for that purpose, to allow government to continue to operate services

to the public in an uninterrupted fashion that would give the people of the

Province exactly what they would expect.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: By leave to clue up, just a minute?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just to conclude on special warrants - that would allow government the

opportunity to provide a continuation of services where an emergency exists so

that they can get on with it and get the service done.

Mr. Speaker, let me conclude by saying, on the use of special warrants, one

of the problems that we have had is that we feel that the use of special

warrants has not been used correctly. The Auditor General has talked about

breaches to the Financial Administration Act. Mr. Speaker, we agree that, when

the House is open, it is no sense for Cabinet to meet and approve money, but

when this House is open, the issuance of special warrants must be brought to

this House for approval.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, listening to the excellent address to the House by the Member

for Kilbride, certainly the motion that we are debating this afternoon is under

Motion 1, to move that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the

government.

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Kilbride, as the Opposition House Leader, has

outlined the failings of this particular government. Mr. Speaker, I want to go

back over several budgets. I want to go, first of all, back to 1998-1999 when we

listened in this House to budget statements by ministers of the Crown. I

remember them saying we are going to have a balanced Budget. I do remember in

1998 there was great applause and the Premier of the day, Brian Tobin, when the

Minister of Finance stood in the House and said: We have a balanced Budget, the

first time since Confederation. We had all the applause. Everybody stood, on

that side of the House, and applauded and gave a standing ovation.

Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to what our Budget of this year says to us. I

want to review what is in Exhibit V, and that is on italicized page xi. It says

that in 1998 the total public service debt of this Province was $5,981,800,000.

I will say that again. In 1998, according to the Budget documents, the total

public service debt was $5,981,800,000. In 1999, our total public debt had

jumped to $6,456,400,000.

In other words, how can you have this wonderful, balanced budget? Everybody

applauded on that side of the House and said how wonderful things were, but in

that one year the records show that our total public service debt went from $5.9

billion to $6.4 billion. Then from 1999 to the year 2000 we note that it jumped

to $6,617,800.000. Then in 2001 more balanced budgets, we were told.

I do not know if you remember the Minister of Finance standing in the House

and saying this was going to be a great year, we are only going to be $10

million in debt for the year on our budget. Yet the documents tabled in this

House show that, from the year 2000 to 2001, we went from $6.6 billion up to

$7.062 billion.

Mr. Speaker, you do not have to be a financial giant to realize that in 1998

we were told we had a total public debt of $5.981 billion and by 2001, after all

those balanced budgets or near balanced budgets that we heard the Minister of

Finance say repeatedly over and over again during the Budget debate, we went

from $5.98 billion up to $7.062 billion. The documents for 2002 show that the

total public sector debt for this year will lead us to have a debt of

$7,523,200,000.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we have been asked to approve the budgetary policy and yet,

during the years when this government was telling the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, when the Premier of the day was shouting from his podiums and saying

how wonderful things were and telling us that we were going to have more

balanced budgets, and when the Minister of Finance was telling us, as she did

the other day - she had to hesitate because she was reluctant to tell any more

good news about the Budget and about the prosperity that we were enjoying as a

Province. We have to ask the question: How can we, in those years, talk about

having balanced budgets, and we move from 1998 having $5.9 billion in total

public sector debt up to this year having $7.5 billion?

Mr. Speaker, I just want to go back a little further. In 1989, when the

Liberal government came to office, the total public sector debt of this Province

was $4.8 billion; in 1989. Yet we know that in the year 2002 it is $7.523

billion. That is an alarming increase. That means we have had about $2.7 billion

added to our public debt since this group on that side of the House came to

office thirteen years ago. Mr. Speaker, if we were to break that down in terms

of how much it is per year, how much it is per month, and how much it is per

day, we would find out that every single day this Province is going in debt by

about $25,000 an hour. That is alarming! About $25,000 an hour is what we are

going in debt. It does not take any kind of a mathematician to figure that kind

of thing out.

In 1989, after forty years of Confederation, we had a total public sector

debt of $4.8 billion. This year we have a total debt of $7.5 billion. Yet, in

the last number of years, when this government talked about balanced budgets -

every year they said, we are going to have a balanced budget, and yet we know

that was not quite the way it was. Last year in this House we asked questions. I

asked some of them, my colleague from Ferryland asked some more. Indeed, on this

side of the House, we asked the question repeatedly to government: Would you

please tell us what the real debt is?

Last summer we had the Minister of Finance telling us, day after day, the

debt this year is going to be - and she talked about 2001 - $30 million. After

repeated questions by the finance critic and by other members of the House,

finally it was revealed that the real debt would be around $300 million for the

year.

Mr. Speaker, that is where we have difficulty with this particular motion.

How can we, on this side of the House, be asked to support a government which,

on the one hand, told us just last summer that we are only going to have a debt

of $30 million, when in reality we knew the debt would be a lot more than that?

This year, when they talk about having a debt of approximately $93 million, the

critic for finance tells us that it is going to be more like $400 million, and

it could be $450 million?

AN HON. MEMBER: Could be more.

MR. H. HODDER: And it could be more.

We know, from the expected borrowings that we see in the Budget documents -

last year, in 2001, the total debt of the Province was $7.062 billion. This year

it is going to be $7.523 billion. Therefore, that accounts for last year. My

colleague from Ferryland tells us that last year we had an increase there of

over $500 million in public sector debt. Of course, we do not know what it is

going to be this year. What we really see is, in fact, if it is going to be more

this year, at least this year the Minister of Finance is saying that she is

acknowledging the debt will be $93 million. My critic says it is going to be

much higher than that and, because he has been right so many years, I tend to

support his particular viewpoint over all others.

Mr. Speaker, in the last several days in this House we have heard comments

about what the Auditor General had to say about this government's financial

management. We all know that when the Auditor General's Report was tabled last

fall there was a lot of debate. There was a great deal of debate because the

Auditor General was certainly not very supportive of the manner in which this

government recorded its debts and in which it recorded the monies that were

owing by the Province. She said that we were not doing a great job. Now, there

is some difference in the financial community as to the way certain things

should be accounted. However, the Auditor General compared this Province to

other provinces. She said: Well, certain things were showing some improvement.

She certainly said that this Province has a long way to go.

This government talks about accountability. You have to read all their words

in the Throne Speech and all their words in the Budget Speech about

accountability, you have to read all that, and then read what the Auditor

General says, and you have to ask yourself the question: Are we talking about

the same government? Is the Auditor General talking about the same government

that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board was talking about

when she talked about accountability in her Budget Speech? It cannot be the same

people. It cannot be the same group at all, yet we know it is. I tend to take

the word of the Auditor General with a great more credence than I take comments

made by the government in answers to questions, because the Auditor General has

gone and she has looked at all of the accounts. She has said she has look at all

of the accounts, and she has said that the government has been weighed in the

balances and has been found wanting.

So, Mr. Speaker, we want to say, on this side of the House, we need to have

all of the information. How can you say you have a deficit of $30 million and

then it comes out to be a deficit of $400 million? How can you say that you have

a balanced budget since 1998 and yet the total public sector debt shows, since

1998, we have had debt increases totaling $1.6 billion? That is a long way from

having a balanced budget, a very long way from a balanced budget, when what is

said by the Minister of Finance in her Budget Speech is not consistent with the

information tabled in the House in the Budget documents.

Now, Mr. Speaker, in the last several days, as well, we have had a great deal

of debate in this House about the Voisey's Bay contract. Certainly, we want to

bring the analogy here. When the Auditor General says she has concerns about the

way the government manages its finances - and certainly she documents why she

would have concerns - we, on this side of the House, have great concerns about

the manner in which this government is handling the Voisey's Bay file. We have

had petitions. I think we are up to twenty-three or twenty-four different

petitions presented by Members on this side of the House in the last several

days, and we have many more to come, asking this government if they would have

full disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final deal on

the Voisey's Bay development by Inco and this government.

Mr. Speaker, maybe a little history lesson would be helpful. Some people

might remember in 1996 Inco made a great number of promises to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. In 1996 Inco was saying to the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador - we remember during the election in that year. They promised in

1996 they were going to build a mine and a mill in Voisey's Bay, Labrador.

After a very high profile road show and public consultations, they had a large

news conference in which they promised the people of Argentia that a

smelter-refinery would be built in their community.

Inco has made some great significant promises to the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador. In 1996, after Inco had bragged that Voisey's Bay was the

largest nickel, copper and cobalt discovery in the world they, themselves, said

that the sale of copper and cobalt alone would offset the cost of the mine; the

mine, the mill, the smelter and the refinery. They said that would offset.

People will remember, who were here at that time, the comments that were made in

this House: that would leave the nickel the most abundant material in the

deposit as pure profit. Remember that? Do members remember the comments made by

Inco in 1996? They also said, in 1996, that Voisey's Bay was the richest, had

the lowest cash cost and the higher payback than any of the mines in Ontario and

Manitoba. As a matter of fact, in 1996 Inco said - and this government supported

them - the projected production rate would be 107 million pounds of nickel a

year at Voisey's Bay; nearly twice the capacity which justified a smelter in

Thompson, Manitoba.

Now, what is happening in the year 2002? Now we have a different scenario

altogether. Inco now is saying that they are going to develop this particular

resource, but just a few days ago there was some commentary by some of the

officials who were connected to Inco. Now they are talking about a different

scenario altogether. In fact, Peter Jones, Inco's President and Chief

Operating Officer, said in March: the provincial government is being more

flexible than ever in negotiations regarding the development of Voisey's Bay.

That is our concern. This government has changed its mind. They are bending over

backwards to get a deal.

We know what happened in Marystown when this government bent over backwards

to get a deal. Now when Peter Jones says that this government is being more

flexible - I am quoting words used by Peter Jones. These are not my words, they

are his words. He said: This government is being more flexible now than they

have been in the past. We know what flexibility got the people of Marystown. I

remember one time when the yard in Marystown - where I have many family members

who worked in that yard - employed 700 and 800 people. Back in the mid-1990s

they were talking about that yard being able to employ 1,000 people. Mr.

Speaker, we now know what happened in that yard. There was a deal made, a very

flexible deal, whereby Friede Goldman got a wonderful deal; $82 million worth of

assets were transferred to Friede Goldman for $1. Now that is being flexible,

that is being very flexible.

The other day in the House the Premier said that that was not a bad deal

because we had two years of work. Well let me tell everybody in this House, the

two years of work had nothing to do with Friede Goldman. These were contracts

that were already in place when Friede Goldman took over the yard, all they did

was just carry them out. Yes, there were some minor repairs done to a few boats

and this kind of thing but the primary source of employment was employment that

was already in place when Friede Goldman took over the yard. Then, of course,

they said that they were going to make so many hours of work per year and if

they did not do it, this government was going to go and make them pay a penalty.

We know what happened. When push came to shove this government said: naw, forget

about that. We won't stand in your way. If you can find someone to buy it from

you, then go ahead. That is the context in which we have to put Voisey's Bay

comments by Peter Jones. Peter Jones said this government was being more

flexible than ever. I put the flexibility in the context of Marystown, where of

course the yard was just sold again, to Peter Kiewit and Sons. We know that it

was sold for $7 million-plus. Of course, there was a forgiveness of the $10

million that would have been a penalty that this government was supposed to have

imposed on Friede Goldman.

So, $17 million for either the monies paid -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. H. HODDER: One moment to finish up one or two sentences.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you very much, and I thank the Government House

Leader for the few moments.

Mr. Speaker, my difficulty is when you look at what this government said in

its budgetary speeches and what the total debt is now. When you listen to what

Peter Jones is saying, talking about being more flexible and you look at the

history of Marystown, we have concerns about this government's financial

management of the Province. We also have concerns about their decision-making

processes.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: You're not supposed to speak here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Do you want me to sit down? What did you say? I ask the

House Leader for some direction here.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will seek guidance from the Table.

The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess that confusion is cleared up.

I intend to use my twenty minutes speaking here today, not to talk about

figures and put forward some of the figures that the Member for Ferryland has

brought forward, and my colleague who just spoke from Waterford Valley,

illustrated quite well, accurate figures. Before I go on and talk about -

because I intend to talk about my district. I intend to talk about roads. I

intend to talk about health care. I intend to talk about unemployment, or the

lack of employment, but first I would just like to commend our finance critic

from Ferryland who went - I think our House Leader said - twelve hours. I did

not hear him repeat one word in the twelve hours that he was up giving his

assertion. I did not hear him repeat one word. It was all facts. It was all

accurate information that he put forward to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador. Very accurate, concise information. I am certain that people out there

learned a lot from that twelve hours of speech from our finance critic.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to touch on a couple of topics. First, I am going

to touch on health care in my district. Back in 1994 there was $1.4 million

spent to refurbish part of the Golden Heights Manor. In that refurbishment plan

there were ten beds created; ten beds in the Golden Heights Manor. And there was

furniture, I say to the new Minister of Health and Community Services. There was

furniture put into those bedrooms at that particular time and the doors were

closed. I have raised the issue here in this House many times, talking about the

need to have those ten extra beds open. I have raised the questions and the need

here in this House to put forward to the minister people's desire to have

their mother, their father, their loved one put into the Golden Heights Manor in

Bonavista. Each time I have been told that the waiting list is not long enough.

There has to be a waiting list of seven or eight people before we would consider

opening one of those beds.

Mr. Speaker, that is all very well for somebody here in this House to say

that there has to be a waiting list of seven or eight people, but can you

imagine a phone call being made, somebody trying to get their mother, their

father, a loved one into the Golden Heights Manor and for their member to tell

them: I'm sorry, but there are not enough people on the waiting list. If there

is one person on the waiting list, if there is a need and if the facilities are

there then a bed, or those beds, should be opened. If there is no need for them

then close them down.

I would not even hazard to guess the number of meetings that we have had with

the former health care ministers, the former members of the Peninsula Health

Care board, putting forward our desire to see those ten beds opened up and exist

there for the good of the people who need to be admitted to the Golden Heights

Manor. I always call it a home. We always refer to it as the home because it is

a home. It is a home away from home. The staff, the doctors, the nurses and the

people who are working there are second to none and provides care that is second

to none.

I just want to make the new health care minister, the not so old health care

minister, aware of those existing beds at the Golden Heights Manor and say to

him that while we recognize the need to open two beds now, there are still eight

beds there that are lying vacant. The rooms are there, the facilities are there,

and when the need arises, whether it is for one bed to be open or all ten, we

should open them.

The people working at the Golden Heights Manor, the nurses there, the staff,

have stepped up to the plate and said: Look, we are already worked to the limit.

We are already worked to the hilt, if you would, and we, too, would like to see

those beds open up. If it can be accommodated, if one or two can be accommodated

within the existing workforce, then we are willing to look at that.

That is the concern that I put forward with health care. I think we have

solved the problem, at least temporarily, with the doctor shortage there. There

have been many times that we have put forward the need and put forward the plea

to have extra doctors stationed in Bonavista especially, because that is where

the need has been. I suppose there is nothing more frustrating than not having a

family doctor but having to go to a different doctor every time you visit the

health care facility, and not have somebody aware of your situation or aware of

your health problems. That seems to, at least temporarily, have alleviated

itself. Now I put forward the need to look at those ten beds again, and put

forward to the minister the need to have those beds open and have them occupied

by people who are on a waiting list in order to be admitted into the Golden

Heights Manor.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing I want to touch on is roads. I have stood here

many, many times in this House, especially the last two sittings of the House of

Assembly, putting forward the need to have some road work done in this year's

capital works budget in the District of Bonavista South. When I look at and put

forward the need to have Route 235, one of the main trunk roads leading to the

Bonavista Peninsula, upgraded and repaved, the roads going through Open Hall,

Red Cliff and Tickle Cove, the need to have this eight kilometres of road

reconstructed and paved, and the need to have the gravel road leading into

Winter Brook and Jamestown not reconstructed, because the road has already been

reconstructed, the need to have that particular road paved. Those people have

been - in fact, it was about four years ago that they celebrated the 100 th

anniversary of their town, Winter Brook, a very vibrant little town. In fact,

Mr. Speaker, I suggest to you that there is probably nobody in the small Town of

Winter Brook that does not work. They may not all have full-time jobs, but they

are all fortunate enough to have a job to be able to go to work. Most people

there are fortunate enough to work either full time or part time. In order to

get to their place of work and get back to their home again, they have to drive

over a dirt road. Last year we were fortunate enough to have gotten two

kilometres of pavement to pave part of the Town of Winter Brook and part of the

Town of Jamestown. That is all they are looking for.

The only calls that I get from Jamestown and Winter Brook are the calls to

have their road paved. Their calls are not for sidewalks or street lights or

water and sewer; it is to put in the simple request to try and have their roads

paved so that they might be able to at least have a decent road to drive over.

When they put up the argument as to the amount of money they pay to register

their vehicle, the amount of money that they pay for their driver's licence,

the amount of money they pay every time they fill up their car or their truck

with gasoline, the road taxes that they pay, they are asking: Why are we treated

any different than anybody else?

Maybe it is time that we should start directing money in this Province

instead of throwing it all together and seeing where we are going to place it

when we divvy it up. Maybe it is time, especially when you look at road work,

that we should look at the amount of money that we take in, the Province takes

in, in taxes on gasoline and to make sure that a sizeable amount of that money,

because of the way it is generated, would go back into road work, in the

reconstruction, upgrading and paving of roads in the Province; roads that the

federal government are not responsible for, but roads that the provincial

government are responsible for.

Mr. Speaker, I was a little bit disappointed that Route 230 - the main

highway, the Discovery highway, leading to the Bonavista Peninsula - here we are

in the final hours of the Roads for Rail Agreement, when we thought in the

beginning that the amount of money that was allocated for that particular road

would be sufficient to have all of that thoroughfare upgraded and repaved, only

to find out that there is still

Document details

Collection	Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	2002-05-21
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	2002-05-21
Language	en
Format	htm
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	b3895584c9018fb4e679fdc6c6374f129d568713

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (htm).