''OL. P!-'.ELI::I~;;,._1_y 1J':'!EDITED TPAllSCRIPT EOUSE OF ,~.SSE:. :ELY FOR Tl!E PERIOD: J:!)') P.~:. - 6 :00 E.:!. ::ONTIAY, DEC~!EEP~ l.l, 1~· 73 ::o. G

December 11th., 1978 The Pause met at 3:')() P .!·!. ~r. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: \1]'_. SPEAKER: SOME RON • MEMllERS : Tape ~lo. 206 Order, please! STATID'ENTS BY ~IINISTERS The han. Premier. Hear, hear! DH - 1 P~.EMIER '!OOR.ES: !1r.

Speaker, the situation in l'!abush between the union and the company,and the issue involved is something that concerns the government for two reasons. 'l'he first one- both being different, I suppose-the first one being the business of the company having shipped out equipment to be repaired in Seven Islands, as I understand,with the reasoning being given that the maintenance shop 1vas blocked at Habush,and in that regard I would suggest that if the maintenance shop is that busy that the company should look at the possibility of building ne1-r facilities .But in contact with both groups by the Manpaver anrl Labour Department, first of all the company was advised, said they wanted the union to repair these but would need overtime to do it and were refused.

In the meantime,when the union uas approached they uere advised that they had never been asked about overtime and that they vould have t.relcomed it. Now the fact is that it was obviously a very bad breakdown in the communication between the t1-ro here. ~Tow before getting into that particular issue, - would like to say and repeat very firmly that this r,overnment believes in local preference where it can possibly be done whether it be in Wabush or any other part of the Province.

The fact is that the company will be notified as such that if facilities are not available certainly ~re would encourage the facilities be made available tvhereby 502

1:or~: or any ot:1er t~'Pe of 1mrk tl~at c<m be c!one L-, this Province ::e Cone lo.-it:1i:-.~. t!'la Province by our o'tvn people. But secon.G.ly, Sir, ! t:lould also li:~~ to say at the prese1!t tiT.'!.e :::1are is r:ot only a <dlclcat stri1:e in place but al:;o injunctions l1ave been servad on tl1e union,a..-.d coc:.ually :~e gove=eu.t Joas not s ;:a;:;.d by la.>1 brea;.:.L-.g of any sort <mci ,::u;_t I •rould suggest is tl::!t,.f:.s soon as t~1e union goes back. to vrork,:Ianpower aile!

Labour ~-:ave :1ad instructions to have their people there icmadiately to t~' to overcome this unfortunate impasse co.nci. try to brir.g some solution out of what is a very difficult situation. : :>". SPE.:\KE?.: Before recognizing the :1on. Leadar of t.1e O?position,I ·,.;oulii welcome (;o the J;:ouse on :.el1alf of all :1o::c. m~mbers ~1r. Roger Tamre.z, Presiclent of the First Arabian Corporation, end a nUI!lber of his associates. SOc·'I:E EO:;. ::E:-'I\ERS: .-..:: .. SPEA.XER: :.::R. :; . Rmm: The hor.. .. LeaC.er of the Q~rpositiou • ".fr.

Spe.al~er, t!l.y colle.agu.:as ~~Jill have some c;.uestions to address to t:1e Premier &nd t~e ·r::nister of I..abour, if he is in :u.s seat, cc:ncerning t!1.a stateme:u.t made. ~:" t:.:.e Prer1iar a.."'"lci. of course ot~"lar m~tters surroundi~l~ tha ,.liifortur~ate evsnts i:L:i. :~abus:C. For the moment, Sir, jus~ let ~c say, of course,noborly c2.n condonz. ille.gali.t~:r, but, 3i.r, the'!'e is a f.ar lar3er issue :-,_~re,.

I 1:elie'\I"'C the lar:::er issue is t~la!: folln::-::.~g t::a 3~rtl.=tt :-'..:;?ort, t:1e report by Judge ~.::.rtlett as .2. r2sult of ~1~3 enc;_uir; a ::ear a;:o r.oP, the report itself st::.tecl tnat t~er2 s!Lculd. ~one i~t~i~ t~is ~~ovi~ce. TI1.e r~ason,as I unC:erst<Inrl it., ... ·~~y 503

othe-:: ,;ide of ::he '::order in ::)ueL.;c, :~at :.:1 •1iolation <"f ti1e tmion agreenent, Sir, it s:-10uld ~e cons:.dered to oe i!l violation of eve'!":rthi'~ = 504 2

December 11, 1978 Tape No. 208 EC - 1 ~!R. ll. :-!. ROWE : which this House of Assembly should stand for and which the ~overnment of this Province should stand for, namely, that all servicing,without accepting any wishy-washy excuses about it at all, all servicing and supplying, wherever humanly possible,should be done within this Province -in Labrador, if possible, and certainly within this Province, if possible. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. loT. N. ROWE : And, Mr.

Speaker, it is a little alarDing, certainly dismaying and certainly alarming,to realize that since the Bartlett report was made public some months ago, as I understand it, this government has done little or nothing, I would say nothing,to implement its priority recommendation or its priority concept of servicing and supplying of industries and mines and various industrial enter~rises going on in this ?rovince ~done within our Province itself and we should stop this practice of servicing and supplying being done outside this Province simply because it suits the company's interest to do so. SOME HO]. HEMBERS: HR.

SPEAKER: HR. W. CARTER: Hear, hear! The han. the ~inister of Fisheries. .!r. Sf>eaker, within a very few days uow, one of Jewfoundland's most respected Roman Catholic priests will be celebrating the sixtieth anniversary of his ordination into the Priesthood. Reverend Father George !adcock, a native of Brigus South on the Southern Shore, was ordained in St. John's on December 21, 1918. Father Badcock served for a number of years as parish priest on Bell Island and in the Lamaline/St. Lawrence area. For forty-six 505

December 11,1978 Tape No. 209 ah-1 MR.W.CARTER: years, Mr. Speaker, Father Badcock served in the parish of St. Vincent's,which of course is in my district, St. Mary's-The Capes, a parish that was founded by him and where he remained until his retirement a few years ago. My hon. colleague, the Premier 1ust reminded me, too, that more than any other Newfoundlander,! suppose, Father Badcock can claim credit for having arranged to have the bridge built that prior to that time was serviced by a ferry crossing Holyrood Pond. So Father Badcock will be remembered in that respect as well.

The good father is now retired and living at St. Patrick's ~ercy Home. Mr. Speaker, I am sure that this hon. Rouse would want to convey to Father George Badcock appropriate recognization on the occasion of this every important event, his sixtieth anniversary, and in appreciation of a long and distinguished career in the service of his church and this Province. I do not know if a motion is in order, ~r. Speaker, but if it is I will certainly move that such a communique be sent to Father Badcock. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.. SPEAKER: The bon. member for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: If the hon. gentleman is making a motion, Sir, we would have no hesitation at all on this side of the House of seconding the motion. As it so happens the Rev. gentleman in question is a very good friend of mine. I bel~eve he is from the Southern Shore by the way, from Brigus South. I know the whole family and I have had occasion to be in touch with the Rev.Father since he went into St. Patrick's Home, a very good friend and a very loyal supporter, I believe, a very loyal supporter. And, Mr. Speaker, I ~~ant to congratulate the minister for raising this matter in the Rouse.

I think we should be doing more of this. This is a very big milestone in the history of Father Badcock's career and so therefore we have no hesitation at: all, Sir, in congratulating Rev. Father Badcock and no hesitatiion at all in seconding the motion so ably moved by my hon. friend,the Minister of Fisheries. SOME RON. ~·ffiERS: Hear, hear! 506

l>ecel!lber 11,1~78 Tape No. 209 ah-2 I am pleased to welcome to the gallery of the House of Assembly the National Chairman and one of the founders of the people to People Committee. Hr. McNutt from Prince Ed~·ard Island. Re is accompanied by one of the members of the St.John's Committee of that organization, Mrs Teresita Williams. 507

December 11, 1978 Tape 210 PK - 1 Mr. Speaker: I know han. members join me in welcoming these people to the House of Assembly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for St. George's. MRS. MCISAAC: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of 269 residents of the district of St. George's; in fact, they are members of a youth organization. The prayer of the petition is: "We,the youth of the district of St.

George's,hereby petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to make available the necessary funding to enable comnencement of a· stadium for the district of St. George's. The stadium will provide much needed recreation to the area from the Highlands to Gallants. The district of St. George's Stadium Committee has requested and received $130,000 Canada Works funds and has requested the Department of Municipal Affairs and the Department of Recreation to make available the balance of funds.

This is the third year that Canada Works funds have been made available and it is our hope that funds will not have to be refused for the third year in a row. "We hereby request that our M.H.A. present this petition to the departments concerned with the hope of getting full financial support for this much needed recreational facility in the area~' Now, Mr. Speaker, in speaking to that petition, this is something that I brought up a couple of days ago in the House of Assembly, Thereare only 269 names on this but there are other sections of the petition floating around which would total 670, and this is youth only.

I support the petition. I am sure I do not have to tell anybody that. I proved that on Thursday. But I am just wondering what is happening to this project, and just where it sits? The Stadium Committee and the town of St. George's have been trying in vain 508

December 11, 1978 Tape 210 PK - 2 Mrs. Mcisaac: for the past number of years to get a stadium for the area, and I cannot understand why they have not succeeded. Now the Minister of Municipal Affairs and the Minister of Recreation can st~. m 1 and tell me 509

9ecember 11th., 197~ Tape No. 211 !)1-1 - 1 ~!RS. ' 1C! SA<\ C: until they are l:llue in the face that they have not receiverl all the i!lfonnation that they needed or that they were in need of from the town of St. George's or the stadium co~ttee but it seems to be a game of. just a runaro..md game, 'send the fools further;because t~ey request a bit of info:rTT~ation today and next '·leek or next month they come bad: 'rl.th another letter, they need something else; they ge~ that ~hen they need sornethin~ else and it is just a continous thing.

I mean if there is a certain reonire­ ment or a certain !Jackage required, r·•ell,if the tOTol!l is requested to suhmit that or the stadium comrnittee,>7ell '"hY not request the whole 1vorks at one tiii!E! instead of dragging it out,this year you need one t!1ing next year you need something else. f.nd now I am told that the $300,000 that was available from the Recreati01l Department - and in fact just as recently as this Spring I visited the Department of recreation with the Hayor and Deputy <layer and we were told at that time that the $ 31)(), 'Yl'l r,;as still availah le _ now I am told by :he Departrumt of ::unicipal Affairs that the money !1an to he returned to the treasury,so they had to go through the process of getting that $300,000 made available again.

And it ''as sent over to Recreation .md they were doing as much as they could and trying to process it as quickly as possible. Hell, I know that it sat on one desk for five "'eeks. I cannot understand why,if this project is not being delayed for some reason or another-! cannot say' deliberately delayed' because I thin], I 1-muld be out of order, but I can thin!·. what I li~'e I guess.

But in the meantime, if there is no reason to delay thi~ project any longer then 1-1hy cannot it be forwarned to Cabinet for a decision, hopefully approval,but at least a decision. '·'e have the Can ada clerks money available, it is being made availab !e , and r,re have until early in January to accept the funds. If the project is not approved,v7e have to refuse the funds again for the t!l.ird year in a rm·l·And definitely we need a stadium, ''e need recreational facilities 510

~acember 11th., 1978 Tape No. 211 Dlf - 1 : :I'.S. -~'CISAAC: in St. George's, in St. George's area.Thia is not a town of St. George's thing;it will ~e serve the whole district fram the Righlan~s to r.allants. I feel that our c::ildren in that area are being deorived of facilities that are available in just about 51.1.

Jecember 11, 1978 Tape :lo. 212 EC - 1 :r"'.s. :·rciS.\AC : every other district in this Province, and I fail to see why. And I beg the government to take a look at it, try to get this thing funded, try to get it to Cabinet and either get it approved or disapproved or whatever, but certainly have the decency to let us know where we stand on this project and to have the project approved in time to accept Canada Works funds instead of having to reject them again. Thank you. SOHE HON. :1EMJ3ERS: HR. SPEAKER: Bay of Islands. ~~R. WOODROW: Hear, hear! The han. the member for Mr.

Speaker, at the risk of sounding a little bit parochial, I would like to say that as a member of the West Coast I am supporting this petition. I am always happy to see any project going to the West Coast of this Province where I spent, in fact, a great part of my life. I am also supporting it, Mr. Speaker, because I have been and I am always impressed by the hard work of the bon. member. In fact, wherever you go on the West Coast you will either hear about something she is doing or you will hear some news releases over the various radio stations. And also, :;r.

Speaker, this administration has placed a lot of importance on recreation. A lot has been done. I feel sure that they will take a very close and hard look at this project. And finally, Mr. Speaker, I happen to know some of the committee members in charge of this project. They are young people ; they have been working very activel y for this project, and I understand they have a lot of mone y ~ade by their own hard work and initiative already, so I fully support this project, ~r. Speaker. SOlfE RON. :1E ~ 1BERS : Rear, hear! ~-1R. SPEAKER: !'!R. l\EARY: The bon. the member for LaPoile. ~fr.

Speaker, we could not let the opportunity go by without supporting our colleague. 512

Deeecber 11, 1978 ~R. NEARY; petition. Tape Jo. 212 EC - 2 Sir, who so ably ~resented a I understand we have visitors waiting, Sir. I understand that. Well , they can wait. We have the public business. We have to carry on with the affairs of State. The affairs of State come first before anything else. And I hope the Premier will s et up and support this petition. It is a very sianifica~t ?etition, Sir, because hon. gentlemen will remeMber 5~3

,, --' 1978 ~0. 213 '!\ cr.:··..!'?le of ":·:eeks a~o,I believe it ;-r~s. before the old sessto!l of t:~e Rouse closed Pe po:ssed ·"- l:·ill ~ettir.g u:> a col!'f!l!issior.. to 't"Uil tl~e Acruaror.a, tr.e S!Jl!'!!'.er G~>l!les P'!.rk .mci t!-:.e Ar:unr~na, and at th::o.t time I indic3ted to t!•e "in use f~ar..ci.al :1e:p and assist:1.nce to all par:s of :TePfol.lntlla:J.cl li~ ~ot :1ead ~y advice at t::t.e time altd :1ere ~re. :1ave an ~~ple _10!·T 1.::. ~:tis petition of -:-1here one part of :'feufouudland, as a ;;t&tt.:!r cf fact it is ble district atjoinging my o-,;m, it i3 t !1e .!istric.t of St. r~orge's. which ls;as :ton.. ~m!Jers l~ow, t.ic 1cuu.d..2ry iJat~een St.

Georbe. 1s and ~al'o!le ~strict, ::ny :1on. fri..:.a.C: &'"tU cyself sl1are thes~ t~:o C.is tric tG. c\r~C. ::!o"r.1.-: i~:. t ~ .t.e :ower e!lci of :ny :ton. frien<i' s district, dow.1. towards St. A.'"lcirew' s J.::.C. t~at area,it is pretty well close to the boundary of ny m-m C:istrict c:.-.d t::at is one of tile reasons 1 waut to support the pet:itioa be-::ause I know t~te des;>erate need for L'J.ese fc:.cili!:i.es in tha ar~a. An~ the otiler reason is to try to impress upon ~::~ Province ~:ui r:.ot just for tae .. .l ... valo ·c Peninsula. an~ for tl.1.c St. Jon.n' s area.

P...nC: so, Sir, I :1.ave uo :.esitation at all iL supporting ti1e "rayer of t:-.e pati~ion and I :10::-e t:•at t:1e z.d.vic2 siven ~on. f~i~r.:.d in. the pre~ente.~iort of tj,is ~ e tition -an.d I ~ope that so : -n.et~1.i:::.g ~: ill be doa~ about i~. T:.:e .;o::. :1e;:;.ber for 3<'.y of Isl<L."lds. :.:R. 1JOO-::JL:0~1: lir. Sp~~:;,er, I ::.::1ve a ~e~it:.or. al~o, i:-_ f=..ct I ~ave t':io I eti tons, ~·~r.

Spea!.:.ar, .::.r.ci t~le first on~ is, t:1.:. p::-aye;r re.ads, "~{c, t.~e U-:\C.arsigned, '":;.ercb)T ~etition t:1.e ~~:!.r..ister cf ::~ar:sportatioa l!.I:~ Col!:';'I.Wlicati.ons to ~1ave us re:il.rcd for hiu~~r in t::e Say a f Islar..c!s area." 514

- ;;_~~ !:leva - t::e eleven of chcm :::ave no t signet! it out seve:c ~ave : e ~~io~ because of :nnter co~itions. ~irst of all , .,_ Speaker, co=ee:ting on :::Us petit:.or. :;: :~oul<i like to s ay t:-ec the ::!en i!! q_ucstion ::ave been geil~ral ly S!>eal::ing hire d for t:'l::ee ::i:::.te rs ::ai:::.t<:r.s.r.ce 1titl: t!le Oapartmcnt of Transportati~n a:1d Co""T,unicatio::lS. T:1e;r \.'ere cot notified 515

December 11, 1978 Tape 214 PK - 1 Mr. Woodrow: last M~rch that they would not be rehired this year. They were given the regular layoff slip, but they were not notified that they would not be rehired come November or December. Unless, Mr. Speaker, these men are rehired, and incidentially they are all married men, these men have no other alternative but to go on social assistance. They are able-bodied men and they do not want to go on social assistance. And I would like to say, Mr.

Speaker, that some of the men who are now working from twelve to twenty -two hours they have complained that they are trying to work desperately too hard. And many complaints have come to me,especially on the conditions of the O'Connell Drive which is one of the important roads or arteries in the Bay of Islands-Corner Brook area. And many complaints have come to me, Mr. Speaker, from the main highroads on the North and the South shore of the Bay of Islands in my own district. And incidentially, Mr. Speaker, three accidents have been recorded on the North shore and on the South shore of the Bay of Islands.

And this really concerns me very much, Mr. Speaker. Now, if I have I have the time, Mr. Speaker, I could go on with the other petition or sit down - AN HON. MEMBER: No,do it now. will wait for you. MR. WOODROW: Okay, very good. It is related to the same topic, and this one, Mr. Speaker, reads: ''We the undersigned are interested in three shifts for Winter maintenance and petition the Department of Transportation and Communications to act accordingly.'' We have nineteen names from people who are already working in the depot at Wild Cove in the Bay of Islands area.

Now the Bay of Islands area is probably plagued with more than any other area in the Province with snow clearing, and this is going on continually year in and year out. Now I realize that the government have made a rule on two shifts, but I think with the way that the snow is coming down at the present time, in fact, it was almost impossible this morning to get from 516

December 11,1978 Tape No. 215 ah-1 ~!R. WOODROW: Corner Brook to Deer Lake to catch their plane to be in here on time. It was terrible out there Qll over the weekend,so I am imploring the Minister of Transportation and Communications - I already told him that I would be getting this petition- I ask him and implore him to take a look at these positions and try to have a heart and get something done about it. S~. HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member for Baie Verte-White Bay. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I rise to say a few words in support of the petition presented by my friend from Bay of Islands.

I congratulate him, Sir, for having the courage and the fortitude to bring in that type of petition,especially sitting on that side of the House 0 because it does not make life any easier for the Mini~ter of Transportation and Communications. But having said that, Sir, ~- r~ic:,.. th,e mi!list;er deserves to hear, ar.d I 'ho;:>e the ::tinister 'dll rise in his place after I sit down and give the members of this House and the people of this Province some indication of what he is going to do about the deplorable conditions in the Winter maintenance seTVice of his department. Mr.

Speaker, his department this year,for some crazy reason, some crazy scheme has been perpetrated on the workers and on the people of this Province; he has insured that workers are on call for twelve hour shifts, twelve hours a day,but the government will only pay them for eight. They can stay home if they wish and be paid for eight hours but they must stay home for twelve hours. It is wrong, Hr.

Speaker, it is absolutely wrong. 'Jn top of that, Sir, they are leaving those workers home, they are leaving the workers home and arranging for the foremen , 2.:1d t'u~ fore::1e!'. •:-or~~ · r units, but they are arrang1.ng for those foreman to go out cruising the roads equipped with mobile telephones to call the workers in from their home or call them into the depot any odd hour at all in the morning. It is crazy, M ~. Speaker, it just cannot work, it cannot be done. On Sundays it was snowing to beat the band in Fleur de Lys but sixteen miles away in Baie Verte there was not a flake falling and 51?

Decelber 11,1!178 Tape No. 215 ah-2 MR.. RIDEOUT.: b•cause the foreman would be down c::ruising the Burlington Road or some ot~er road,nobody goes over to Fle!J.r de Lys road. It is a cr~y,intolerable situatio-n. :'lha!: the member for Bay of Islands (Mr.Woedrow) brought before this House is a very serious problem,and I hope that: the Minister of Transportation will de something about it.

It is obviously an effort, Sir, to save a few dollars by keeping the men o.n call for twelve hours and only paying the for e:!..g.~t, o.n.d ~7 laying off or not hiring back the seasonal workers that the llleiJiber refen:ed to, It is a crazy poU.ey that the government is perpetrating on the people of th:!..s Province. And the other part of their crazy policy, Sir, is this; they appear 518

Jecember 11, 1978 Tape ~o. 216 r:c - 1 ~IR. RDEOUT: to have an ice control system for every different road in this Province. If you live in Nipper's Harbour then the orders from the unit foreman is to sand every inch of the road. If you live in Ming's Bight the order is sand the hills and the turns. Now what is the difference between one road and the other road? One is equally as bad as the other. I would submit, Sir , that the Ming's Bight road is worse, more hilly, nore turns and so on. And the people who work with this minister's department, Mr. Speaker, will tell you this type of thing.

Now how can you go to the people and attempt to justify when they ask me questions when their own workers are telling thee this is the orders they got from their boss - sand all of one road but only sand the hills and the turns on another road. ~ ow what is the minister up to, Mr.Speaker? I would hope that the minister will get up and let us know what he is u~ to in that department. We had our first snowfall out in my district two or three days ago, the first major snowfall for the winter .

It is nothing compared to what we are going to get after Christmas or in another month or so, and the 'phone is gone mad with people calling complaining about the service that that department is providing to them. And they are not unreasonable calls, L1r. Spea k er. If they will send a sand truck out to get a load of herring out of Pacquet but they will not send a sand truck out to make sure the road is in proper condition it is tine that the minister - there has been one incompetent minister after the other, Sir, i n that depart ment , and it has been let drift too long. And I ~~auld hope that the hon.

Pleasantville SOME HON. MEMBERS: :1R. SPEAKER : lip will do something about it. Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! I would require the han. gentleman to withdra w the last remark. ~s hon. members are aware, they refer to other 519

~ecember 11, 1978 Tape ~To. 216 EC - 2 !1R. SP!:.\KER: bon. members by the district from which they come or their function in the House but not in other manners. ~R. &ID:OUT: ~ost assuredly so, Sir. :-rR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Placentia. MR. PATTERSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition presented by the member for Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow), and I am sure all outport members here today will support him, bec~use the outports are the ones that are mostly affected. City members do not have too much to worry about here. are taken care of.

They have their own council and things I certainly would support the governnent in trying to save dollars here and there, but in a time of great unemployment and the private sector falling down on the job,I do not think we should be pinching pennies there. Placentia district has been hard hit by this cutback and I am surprised that the unions in Newfoundland have not stepped in and said there is no more of this twelve tour crap, eight hours is long enough for any man to work. So I would recommend that the highway system be maintained on a three eight-hour shift, not a two twelve. SOME RON. MEMBERS: :rR.

SPEAKER: St. George's. :ms. HciSAAC: Hear, hear! The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, I, too, rise to support the petition presented by the member for Bay of Islands. I think the ~est Coast 520

Jcc~mOer 10, 1973 Ta;:>e Xo. 217 "~! - 1 : ~-S. ~~C!SA A_C: sce~s to be the area that is in e,e most diffic::lty as far as road conditions are concerned. :J'hcn I stood :1ere the other day a."Lci as!<.ed t:'le mi~ister .'1 'luestion about: t~1e district, t~e "c!g:1ways district, I t!J.ink ·,•e are i~ ::listrict four, ar.d it tal:es in the

section of the Northern Peninsul2. , ~;ell the 3aie Verte Peninsula, the ~orthern Pen~""1sula, the South Coast of L.'lbrador, the Port au Port Peni.""1sul:t, all Corner Brool:, Stepnenville, rieht do~m the coast, Port au Basques 2nd Bur::r~o. T:,at is all one district. And I am safe i;:t sayir:g that it is double the mileage that is i.""1. any other district. .l.n::l ;·•eo are certai..""1ly in an area v:here >re get, I believe, a lot ;rorsc ueather than you get ~1ere on the East Coast. And,for ir>.stance,as 1!as st2.ted by the last member who spoke, St.

Joh..."L's :!c;;s c:ot :1ave too much of a ":·:rorry as far as the Departl'!ler_c of T:rar..s::ortation is concerned because the city takes care of it. XN TION. ''E!BER: The to~m of ' Corner Z.rool~ doe3 rlot :-.ave all t!!nt ;:nuch !'roblen 0ut tlley do hav£ a lot of t:1~ir roads cl~ared jy the De~art~ent of Trans?ortation. But in the meanti!:'.e I t:~!r..l: t!'l:::t ~::c nuc!~ to :;,~Tl.G.le. I do not see any \:ay i1~ the ":·10 rlC. t:-:c. t one rlis t~i c. t office can tai:e cc.rc of a:: area as Cis .;15 t2.:.t. l~d. I S"...lf.r.:~stec~ :'lz.re 521

:i:~ :oaC.:, j ~C.::- :-..!.fc!ci, .til :mcs of t~af~c off t~e ::o;::i. It sae:ts to me 35 t ::oust1 : :.e)· go out ~;it :J. t=.e salt: ·,;hen the roa.:: L clean. If ::.a roac! !.:; ~s clesn as che floor you will see the= out ~~lt!~; . I! t~a ro~ts a.l<! :~ls are icy as cail oa a.lc! everybody scrat:::ti:tg on ti\e '".i!l to .;e: U!) t!l<!ra is not a vehicle ou tL\e :oads . n;ey seem tc :nic:~ : : 1aC 1f there is a SOlOt•· !:al.i. :hey ::ave got tO SiVC up .:mC: f;tC in. '"' ... ,. ('~r. ::Orgsz) ir.trccluceC. that policy.

YRS . ::CIS.U.C : If t:tey are :lOt out to vork 11::= is vile:1 :::a stores are on a::.c :~ot ~ile:1 :iley c=r:ct sec , :-~ot in ::cads . I k::ou ='eot~lec -;;l:c ~~ sat in :::teir cars on ::12 roa.:s = :.!! all tit;:::t oeco.us e ::te Cl'2t:s ;rere c.ot 0:1 . It :·ns tile s:or::~y fer So I "'laar. I .!o not t!lin:t for o~ 522

necember 11th., 1978 Tape <lo. 218 1)~·1 - 1 ~l:tS. lllCISMC: putting up ttith on the !\est Coast and I am sure every ~nister there has been in that department since I have been in have heard fJ:Om me and I have made my feelings knmm on it. .~d I certainly think that there is a lot to ue desireu as fnr as ~~e transportation system is concerned - not system - tUe transportation service. Cut do1m on the salt, if you have to~ Yes, I agree with that,because in some areas it is contaminating water but certainly do not cut down on the servi~e.

We have dilapidated equipment on the West Coast that should be in the Archives some~rhere. It is about time that somebody took a look at our needs and realized there is a ·;;est coast to this Island and it is one of the worst areas weatherttise and ue are sadly neglected. I support the petition. SO~!E RON. MEHBERS: '!P. • SPF..AKE?..: }IT' •• T. RICKEY: Rear, hear! NOTICES OF HOTIO~T The han. Yinister of Rousing. Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow introduce the following bill, ''An Act Respecting 'lhe Department of I!ousing:· ~'R.

SPEAKER: 1':R. nnm: ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS HHICH ~10TICE HAS ~"F.F.!T GIVE"! Hon. minister. lir. Speaker, the answer to question no. 12 asked by the han. member for LaP aile (~~r. S. Neary) and it concerns the ~irector of Air Services. The answer is;nue to the restructure of the Department of Transportation and Communications in ~ir Services Division there is no ne1·1 director, the position has ":oeen abolished. The chief dispatcher, !!r. l1illiam !lrmm,has been aopointed as the individual in charge on site in t~e division.

SOME HON, ~ID~ERS: Flear, hear! :m.. ;)DTN: And the other ?art of that position 1·rhich Has chief pilot is now taken over by ~'r. Jack Beaudry. 523

~ecember 11th., 1978 !·::t • SPEAKER: ?.Oti'E: Tape No. 213 Dt-1 - 2 ORAL Qt'ESTIONS The hon. Leader of the Opposition. A question, Sir, for the hon. the Premier. Before doing so let me welcome the Premier back. ae is looking as fit as ~ fiddle tl1ere today. Obviously, a week in ~ed does him good. He should do it more often. '!R • S • 7:iEARY : llR. \{ .:~ • ROtiE : Especially when the House is s itting. Especially when the House is sitting .Uthough, '1r. Speaker, •·rhen the Premier is away the mice have a tendency to play. He might have noticed that himself. l·!R. SI11MONS: '·!R. W .~T. ROWE: Even the rats.

Even the rats have a tendency to play. Sir, Hhat I would like to do is ask the Premier one or two questions regarding the proposal of First Arabian Corporation. Has the government assumed a position yet regarding the proposal of First Arabian Corporation to take over the operation of the C:ome by Chance oil refinery? M!'. . SPEAKER: The hon. Pre~ier. P~J;:·'IF.R !·!OORES : The government had an opportunity this morning, lfr. Speaker, to have a very worthwhile, a very instructive and 7 I think,a good meeting with the principals of First Arabian Corporation and the support people they had with them.

There is a great deal more information available nm~ than there had been some- til!le ago. There is still, obviously, a considerable amount of work to be done, a lot of ~ork to be done. :i:he government lvelcomed the presentation this morning,it is the first tiw.e He ':lave h ad an opportunity to have a full discussion with the principals of the Corporation. I understand they are also meeting with the Opposition to brirg them up to date on the position as it presently is and I am sure that they will look forward to it as we did.

Other than that, Sir, until such time as it is l'rogressed further there is very little more the government can say. 524

P~cember 11~ •• 1978 Tape No . 2111 A supplementary . A supplementary. ow - 3 ~ffi . !~ . ~ • ~OWE : ~!P. • SPF.A .. ICt!t: :m.. ~ . N. RO\o/E: t understand that ~e Corporation, First Arab ian Corporation had a press confe rence at 2:00 - I,obviously . was not there . ! have heard ~ome of the matters wh i~~ were announced .Lut ;erhaps the Premier coulc elucidate soMe of the matters whic h ~ad been announced or perhaps fill in one or two gaps in·natters which have not been dealt . with publicly yet. For example,as I unrler­ stand it the proposal of the First ~ rabian Corporation is to pav off the firat oottagee, the amo\D'lt owinc to 525

December 11, 1978 Tape 219 PK - 1 Mr. W. N. Rowe: the first mort9a~ee, the first mortgage which amounts to-what?-Some $110million, or something around that figure, is the proposal also to pay off the Government of Newfoundland in full for its $30 million or so which is secured by a second mortgage on the oil refinery? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: In the formula of the letter of intent, and this is still not finalized, Mr.

Speaker, the methodology for paying off the first mortgagee is there, as the Leader of the Opposition has said, also a procedure to look after the second mortgagee further downstream. And also this morning,in conversation with Mr. Tamraz and his people, there was considerable discussion and a desire expressed by the First Arabian people that they wanted to work something out and they were very sympathetic to working something out,regarding the local unsecured creditors. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. W. N. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! A supplementary. A supplementary. MR. W. N. RmiE: Mr.

Speaker, in the letter of intent is there a timetable for the repayment of the government debt,the thirty-odd million dollars? I mean7 is there a commitment? If the letter of intent were accepted today would there be a commitment by the First Arabian Corporation to pay the government back in full? MR. SPEAKER: MR. DOODY: The hon. Minister of Industrial Development. In answer to that question, Mr. Speaker, there is indeed a time frame established in the letter of intent.

It is not unlike the original agreement with the original owners of the refinery in which the first mortgage gets paid down first and then the second mortgage gets paid down subsequent to that. The timetable is established and it is set forth in the letter of intent. I have no doubt at all that the representatives of First Arabian will be only too happy to discuss it in detail with the hon .. Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues this afternoon. This is a very long,involved and legal 526

December 11, 1978 Tape 219 Mr. Doody: document which I have absolutely no intention of getting into here this afternoon. I will be most happy to have a precise done and have it distributed to anybody who is interested PK - 2 in looking at it.

But I can assure hen. members that the interests of the second mortgage holder,of the Province are looked after just as they had been in the original agreement with the interest which has accrued up to the date of the closing of the agreement. am just trying to grope through this huge legalese document here and have not come across the appropriate paragraph, but I know it is in here somewhere and it_ can be made available as I said earlier. MR. W. N. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. A supplementary. MR. W. N.

ROWE: The Premier indicated~not very specifically, but he did indicate something about the local unsecured creditors. Is there anything in the letter of intent,which goes somewhat beyond what the Premier had to say, somethina definitP.. something specific regarding lookin~ after the local unsecured creditors who are owed money to the tune of some millions of dollars, Mr. Speaker?

If not,can the government give an undertaking here that some such commitment,by this particular company or any company which may finally be accepted as taking over the Come By Chance refinery, some such commitment to na.~' rnck the 1 oca 1 unsecured creditors \,fill be entered into and insisted upon by the government? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, there is nothina in the letter of intent,to my knowledge,pertaining to that. would - after conversations with the principals this morning>or as the Leader of the Opposition says, whoever 527

December 11,1978 Tape No. 220 ah-1 PR~ER ~OORES: finalizes any arrangement to re~pen the Come By Chance refinery-! would like to think that the government will do everything possible and I would like to think the principals who are going to operate the refinery will do everything possible to have some mechanism to try to insure that the local creditors are looked after. We are talking about the small local creditors here in the Province as opposed to CN or someone like that, we are talking about the small local creditors.

Certainly in the interests of the operator, in the interest of the government and in the interest of the individuals involved, it is of major significance 7 I think 7to this House and to those I just mentioned. MR.lol.ROWE: A supplementary.A further supplemen~ary. MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Opposition. ~'R.W.ROWE: I realize that we will probably get all this information later on when we get a chance to look at this !!tassi'le document which the hon.

Minister of Industrial Development is looking through.could the Premier indicate now, Sir, what exactly is the proposal of First Arabian with regard to the oil refinery? What do they propose to do? Do they propose to use it as is and use _it as an oil refinery~ ·. Do they propose to use it as some kind of storage area or mechanism? Do they propose to convert or reconvert or add to or reconstruct? What do they intend to do and what kind of a product do they intend to produce in that oil refinery? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PRE:!'!IER MOORES: Obviously, Mr.

Speaker, that is a question that would take a very long answer and one that cannot be realized until the final documentation, when and if that is done takes place. The intention,as we were advised thds morning and have been before,is to operate the oil refinery as an oil refinery with the hydrogen plant and the Isomax being repaired and updated so that it can be fully efficient,so that it operates as a refinery in a true sense.

Regarding any expansion or whateve~ that is something that,! would suggest,is further down the road although it is something that has been discussed and will be discussed,! suppose,with individuals who are involved in reopening the refinery. But certainly this 528

December 11,1978 Tape No. 220 ah-2 PRE}'IEl!

MOORES: government has gone on record,Sir, and we went on record very clearly and very definitively before, in that there is no way that we wculd go along with any proposition whereby the refinery was just being used for storage because that would not warrant,not just the risks exactly, the environmental risks or the other risks nor the employemnt opportunity, I do not think there is any future in that for this Province, I do not think any government would go along with that and the proposal,as we understand it,is to operate the 2efinery as a full refinery. r-IR.W.ROWE: A further supplementary.

MR.SPEAKER: The Leader of the Opposition. MR.W.ROWE: I realize, Sir, that I am asking a lot of supplementaries but it is an important area affecting the Province. The Premier ~eems to be very vague about all of this. I do not mean to insult the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, but we are trying to f~d out some information for ourselves and for the public about what this proposal is all about.

Would the Premier indicate what the time frames in the letter of intent may be with regard to the takeover?!£ the proposal were accepted by this government or by any other people; the court here,for example,and this government,what are some of the time frames involved? ~~en would the construction if any start on the oil refinery and when is that expected to be concluded if,in fact,it goes abead? ~~en is the refinery intended to be in full operation and anything else along those lines that might occur to the Premier, Sir, as far as the start up and the full operation of this refinery is concerned under the proposal by the First Arabian Corporation?

PREMIER MOORES : Yr. Speaker, I might say it is not what occurs to the Premier, what comes across my mind,it is what is in the final document that still has to be signed between the first mortgagee the British and the First Arabian or whoever the case may be and who starts up the refinery. Whilst I can give the opinions, ''~~le I can give the impression and the statements that were given to us today,the fact is 529

Dece~ber 11, 1973 Tape No. 221 EC - 1 PRE:UER ~CORES: until there is a final document signed, obvious!~ no one can be specific. A few minutes ago the hon. the Leader of the Opposition said I was not being specific and that I said they were going to operate as a refinery. 3ow I do not know, Sir, how specific you have to be when you say you are going to operate it as a refinery. I do not know if I would have misled hir, ·. if I had said a sawmill or somethin3 like that, but the fact is it is a refinery that they are talking about.

The deadline has been mentioned in this House many times before, between February 15th and April 15th• Now,maybe that is not very specific, Mr. Speaker, but to nost people it is. Tio~ what ti~e of the day on February 15th or April 15th I do not know, but it is next year, 1979, between February 15th and April 15th. The one bit of information I can pass on that we were advised of this morning and not before,is that the time frame would be between eight and twelve months, hopeful!~ to be in operation, that means a post construction period. One final supplementary, Sir. HR.

SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the bon. the Leader of the Opposition. :1R. lv. iT. RO~m : The Premier should not 3et mad, Si•, I am just trying to find out what is going on here. :IR. ~TEARY: ~e thought he was well rested and here he is, right up-tight. ~!R. loY. :'. ROl.TE : We thought he was well rested, his blood pressure was down, that he had come back fu!l of vim and vigor, so he should not get mad. Bu::, Sir, one final supplementary on it.

I understand from the press conference that one of the technical gentlemen, I believe an engineer acconpanyin~ the First Arabian Corporation people who~ we have the pleasure of havin~ in our gallery today, indicated that the replacement value of the 530

December 11, 1978 Tape No. 221 EC - 2 ~R. W. N. ROWE: Come By Chance oil refinery might be somewhere around $400 million. I cannot swear to that but I did hear that from a newsman. Could the Premier give some idea based on what his own technical people in the government, engineers and architects and so on, whether that figure accords with the government's figure as to the replacement value of the Come By Chance oil refinery, some $400 million? :·!R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PRE~!IER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, first of all to the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. House Leader opposite, I am totally relaxed.

I feel absolutely fine. 11R. NEARY: there a few minutes ago. PRE~!IER :•.!OORES: Well, you could have fooled us I am sorry about that. It is just that after spending one week with the wife, talking to her all the time, maybe I am more aggressive than I normally would be among all these polite - MR. NEARY: PREMIER MOORES: who talks back. And Stephan. That is right, and Stephan, HR. NEARY: Why did you not call him Steve instead of Stephan? PREHIER MOORES: Well, we have to draw the line somewhere, Hr. Speaker.

But as far as the replacement value of the refinery is concerned, Sir, we have not bid on one recently, we have not designed one. Yhat we are interested in is the market value of the refinery and not the replacement value of it. HR. S HH10NS: ;rR. SPEAKER : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the bon. the member for Tiurgeo -Bay d'Espoir, the hon. the member for LaPoile after. c!R. S !LlMONS: Mr. Speaker, a cocple of supplementaries for the Premier on the same subject. 531.

December 11, 1978 Tape No. 221 E:C - 3 :r..1.. snmoNs: He has indicated in his initial answers that the session this morning with First Arabian was instructive. Apart from that, Xr. Speaker, would he indicate whether any concessions were sought by First Arabian? To put it another way, is the First Arabian proposal predicated on receiving any concessions, monetary or otherwise, from the government? HR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER HOORES: I think it is fair to say, the detail of the final agreement was not gone into, Mr.

Speaker, for obvious reasons, but certainly to this point in ti~e the answer is no, there have net been any concessions requested,as such,in the normal context. :fR. SimlOUS: :·lR. SPEAKER: MR. SIMMONS: A supplementary, Sir. A supplement.J.ry. The Premier was doing well until he added at the end, 'in the normal context'.

I must ask him one more time whether in this morning's meeting,or at any time up until now in his government's dealings with First Arabian 1 whether any concessions have been sought or is he under the impression that the First Arabian proposal is in any way predicated on First Arabian receiving certain concessions 532

,. .... " , -•.-L - ..._ ~'3' ... SI::~ONS: from Governmeat7 The :1on. Premier. P?r.'IER c:OOP.ES: ·rr. Speaker, w~1en t."-e ten. :!!e!'lber says from government Y!'.. s:r:-_r: ·m~s: TL1e provinc:i:>.l ;;~verrenent. PF.E:ITEll. ?:CORES: The federal eover=ent tl~er<' :.:..:.s to be concession regarding the 1qharf. Ti1ere may be ot~:ars as ~-1ell. Jut t~is goverum~~t has made its position clear right from th~ ver:; ':>egk'"ling.,. As opposed to the previous policy that mon~ o·tt for so many years, no,tb.ere will be no sales tax concession, r.c. :.~ere uill be no cor?orate tax concessions.

In other ~Jords 1 all tb.e givea,mys that the :1oa. ::~emiJer remeubers so ,,·ell 1vill not :uppcm in t:1.e future. ·. :R. SI!2!0NS : A supplementarJ, '~r. Speai~er. ~"1l.. SP::::.I..KER: A final supplementarJ, th~n t~e ~wn. member for LaPoile follm,red by the ~~n. member for Hir.dsor- Buchans. The Premier cane in relaxed, this :1f.tc!"!'.oon. ~e should not let his ~lo_o<i rn:·essure t:o.ke_ control, ::r. Svecl:er. lie should. not get exciteu aboUt this. 'lp,. cJ. ROI·IE : T~ to ce rational aoout it. c.:t. sr:c-roNs: ~~e 2re as~::.i~g hi!:~. some fairly sensible ques tio!!s, .. Lr..

Speal:..er, and -:1e uould li~·:2 to :L:lVe ::he th.e.t, ·:rhen ~~ a:.1c'l.. a lot of then over there -;-1are Literals li~.e ':.::..e r2st of us are. ~T .. ~~\.RY: Re ~1.sd :.etter s~eak to his colleague there to his ri.:;:-,_ t. ~~r. Spea1::.er, a f.urt'!.~er sup?ler.'ent.;:r:;· for the P~eTPier. Duri:-t~ t~1is ::1ornin~'s session ,..,it:1 ~ir~~ ,\r.;:bifl::t 533

Tape ~io. 222 ·~. c:r.~'ONS: .~y co=it~rents of .2ny ldnd, any co=it:mer..ts to F:!.rst Arabian - perhaps I ~-rill leave t:1at :l.as the gov2=ent made a::1y co=i~ents of azy kind to First Arabi.2n? '·T.tat I ·ras t:hinki::.g about ?.<ld:!.ng, o.::td perhaps I s:1ould is, I am 2 not thi!:.!r..ing a.bout the :~or:nal collll!lit:.nent b. tcrn.s of being co­ O'farati·ll'~ IDd that "-:ind of thi!:.g but are there =y f:'.m commiti".c!!t:s to ~irst Arabian as part of their involvement or their pro~oEed involvenent uith the oil refinery at Come Jy Chance? ~·IR. SPEAKER: l>P.~T.!:P. ~()RES: :1r.

Speakerj if I -,::l.S .lnt: very ~lef:!..~tit:!.ve a fe~~T mir1utes ago,or I ~vas acc.use.d of not Jci .. lti very definitive, I C'i!rtai!tly firrd t~t qj.lestio:l very u..."1.de.fi:ri.tiv2 as r.;ell. The fact is t~1e only c.omrai:~Js.nt -r.1e. :1ava -.;ith First A=abi~n is one t.!l.at ~vc trill contiu.ue to :ist~n ta ::::~eir :>Osi !:ion as they p'rogrcss. 'ce :1ope it progresses well, "e hope taat i:h~:r ::;at i~ i_L n l'osi~ion. tD.at ~;e c&l. fully SU?port it, T~ere ls no specific co~t~ent as positiorr ia developed. I rese"t t:1ia remark, :lr.

Spea::er, abo:1t I am ~ot r~lXKed, I am uptight, and now I got ru1 accusation ~Lout :-lood pressure. :ry problal:l, Sir, is tha~; I :-:.ave, urrfort:1r:ately, Jai:.:ed a bit of ~;aig:1t l2.tely uhicb. 7";;Jhilst it rclc;ces me L.l Ear in~tancey! caunot ~et iuto my tAree piece su~~. Sir, I ~~ doi!l6 th.a 'ues t I can. I an r;oi:..l~ t.o try to lose :Jome of t~al: .y.;er C.1.ris t:uas, ';O:! ic.ll i3 Uilli~~el:t. The :Joan. o::=~:,er for LC?J>oil~. ::r.

Spe~J:ar, I ":·Taut to cll.::nge the subj::ct for a m.o!llent, S:!r, I T,7a.._-"lt to set 0e.cl: to t~i..is explosive 3itu.:.ticn iL ~~abus:1., ·.;r_1.:.C.~.1. tllS he~. zentlz=.an tilOU~:lt 1·~a3 of 534

1S73 'i'ape Xo. '"·· - 3 stata~en~ ~is after~oon . Sir, in vieH of t:le e~:-;>lo sive fact t~ a t W:! :1ave ~d c:. cot:Oission of el'!quiry report tjat :w.s ':ee~ i::~ t:;e h:mc!s of :!le :{ewfounc!land Cove=ent for so::!e consici.a rc:.~!.e r-eriocl of t:!::;;e , Houl.:i t!le Pr= ier .j_r.J.!.csce. to t!le :!cuse just 11hat action his gove:rr.!'~e.:lt ~ave take::t on t!l~ aar~let: !I:Custri r.l E;;.oui~.r 3.5 far QS cc:-.t:-o.ct:i::g uor!: . . - . ., out ts concernec? l.,. ; ~t action :tas ~ean take:~ ::o reineG.y this situatioc to ciate? The ~o n. rremier. Aell, :tr.

Sp(!,a!::r, first of all t:le co:::!'anies were auvisec!, Phile they h.a~ access to t:-.e r e)'o-:ot " i tself. : ~e co~nnies were adviseci s~ecificall y af~e r that r~ p ort c~~e ouc es to ~mat the 535

December 11, 1978 Tape :323 PK - 1 Premier Moores: obvious recommendations of the report were and what the obvious desires of this government were. We have not brought in legislation to this effect in the House and am not sure it is something that you can bring in. I would like to think you would have full co-operation from people who understand the position. As the hon. member knows. for instance • in the Lower Churchill Development Corporation all the local services and so on were written in. The same with Linerboard;all the services and people will be written into that, very specifically.

In the offshore regulations the people of the Province and the service industry of the Province are fully protected. Now when you take companies like IOC or Wabush or whoever they may be,you can tell them and you can repeat it .and)hopefully and normally people will and companies will adhere to this sort of representation. There is one thing that has got us very worried and very worried in the context that if the shop was full and if it is going to be that way over any period of time,why should there not be an expansion of that facility in Labrador to ensure that the work can be done there?

When we say that we should legislate or pass Order-in­ Councils regarding people havino a work permit like we had in Quebec there for a while which has ~~w been, I understand, cancelled because of the Ontario pressure, when we talk about servicing having to be done in Newfoundland this becomes very difficult, Sir, when you consider that the mobility of the work force in Canada,whether there are so many Newfoundlanders working at Fort McMurray or whether there are some other people from other rrovinces,to a much lesser degree,working here, it is a very difficult thing to be parochial and legislate parochialism.

But, certainly, patriotism is a very different thing 7 and when we are talking about first consideration being given to Newfoundland companies, particularly in a place like Labrador which is isolated and has its own in-built society as I told the han. member~ . we told the companies before,we are telling them now and "in even stronger terms, as a matter of fact, we are telling them in very strong terms. 536

December 11, 1978 MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Tape 223 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary. PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, in the hon. gentleman's answer, Sir, there were a lot of words there, and there was some reference to patriotism and there was some reference to the tarsands, Alberta and so forth 1 but I am not sure, Sir, if •awful of malarky in there. got the answer or notJ there was an Would the han. gentleman tell me, tell the House, and tell the people in Wabush where you have a very explosive situation, what follow-up, was there indeed any follow-up on the Bartlett report apart from what we are getting in this House today? Who followed it up? When was it followed up? How was it followed up?

Let the Premier tell us what has happened to this report? Has anything been done about it? Or has it just been thrown on the shelf and forgotten . about? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Well, Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman should watch his blood pressure. !tis something that one has to watch in this House, so I have been told this afternoon. Anci_ certainly,when it comes to recognizing malark.y the hon. gentleman is a master of that, so I will not argue that point with him.

The fact is that yes,the companies were advisedj yes~the Department of Manpower and Labour and others, Mines and Energy were in contact with the companies;_yes, they will be in touch with them again in a more forceful manner than before. It is not a matter of not wanting this, and the han. member knows that full well.

I know it is an explosive situation up there, but I will also say, Sir, at this point in time7 that whilst there is an explosive situation to it there, the answer to it is not a wildcat strike with an injunction and a defiance of the law. am saying that if this is going to be worked out that the union should go back to the job, we will send in people immediately to identify the problem so that three parties can work together and hopefully with a solution rather than from a confrontation position. 537

December 11, 1978 Tape 223 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to answer 1~hat the hon. gentleman said, the whole incident would never have happenedand we would not have had this confrontation if the government had a full time Minister of Manpower who was responsible and responsive to the needs of the people in that area. - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: - and had followed out the recommendations of the Bartlett inquiry. So will the Premier tell the 538

December 11,1978 Tape No. 224 ah-1 ~'R • NE..o\RY : House if and when lJe are. e·ver going to get a full-time l!linister of Manpower in this Province to cleal with these :o.nt:s of situations that we are faced l.rith today and not just come out and condemn the workers who ~ave been driven to desperation and frustration in this strike. The Premier can condemn them all he like but where is the Minister of Manpower when this is going on? I am asking the Premier when we are 60ing to get a full - time Minister of Manpower in this Province? PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, we have a full-time department of that.

The hon. member knows full well that I did not come out and just condemn the union. '-r:1at I did come aut and say ,,.as,.. '_crp_]!olC. t:1e: I rights of justice. And also what I did 1probably more forcefully was, :._;: t!-l:!r:c. __ ~!<i-?. condemnation,which is the wrong word, .:.o:n<l~= t::~: cmapa::.y_ fer .-..ct having made arrangements to have done this work in Newfoundland • I am not saying there is any two rights in this thing, I am saying that possibly 1-1:: are 1-/0rking towards l:.ro ~rrongs and t!le:y .io D.Ot make a right.

What I am saying, Sir, is that this thing has got to be put back into perspective whereby the company is encouraged in every way possible to do all the work they can within that area of Labrador, where the people who are presently on the picl~i:i: li"a fee::. at home and can work comfortably with that company. ~R. NEARY: A final supplementary and then I will recognize _the hon. ~ember for Windsor-Buchans. ~r- NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, just·for the benefit of hon. members, Sir, in the Bartlett Report to quote it is taU·.ing about Sept Iles, "It is this triving townsite of Sept Iles that appears to have benefited most from the exploitation of the iron ore deposits in Labrador. · With no ore body of its own,Sept Iles is known,ironically, as the mining capital of the North, - I do not know if the Premier is aware of that being in the report - "::.;C: in the opinion of this ColllD!ission the ever growing list of unemployed workers in Labrador City -~·labush may,in large measure,be attributed to the absence in Labrador of the many spinoff industries normally associated with major industrial complexes." 539

December 11,1978 Tape No. 224 ~.Nl:. ARY: For the benefit of the hon. gentleman, Sir, what I said was the w::ion tol : :;:e .:!:ey coull! co::. contact the hon. gentleman. I do not know lf it i s true or not . The hon . gentleman should lis ten to whn t I am saying and lis ten to what othe:r people are saying. But I am going to ask the Premier agaio, Where do we go from here? What i s now going to be done to try to resolve t:his very, very seriou s confrontation thal: is going on i.n Ha bush i::l Labraaor {vest? • fR. SPEAKER: The hen . Premier.

Ptlfli.IER MOORES: Y~ .Speaker, the Deputy ~~ ni s ter of ~!anpower and Labour and the Minister of ' anpower and Labour have both been in touch t.>ith both groups today . The fact is that the governm .ent t.>ill not get officially involved whilst there i s 540

December 11,1978 Tape No. 224 ah-2 MR. NEARY: Now, }!r. Speaker, I want to ask the hon. gentleman in all seriousness, Sir, because this as I say is a very serious situation, the union have been in touch with me, the union members have been in touch 1o;i.th me since Friday almost on a continuous basis and I realize the seEiousness of the situation and this House should realize the seriousness of it and I want to ask the Premier now where do we go from here? We do not have a full-time Hinister of Manpower, we have an inexperienced Minister of Manpower, where do we go from here?

Is the government just going to sit back and not intercede? The member cannot be contacted, the government ministers are not returning phone calls. I'm. SPEAKER: Order,please! I must ask the hon . gentleman to take his seat. I want to point out that ques _t_:f:s>.~~ - -s:lould p.ot be prafb:eC:: vit:. argument or matter for debate and would also j'Oiat out c::1a t in sup p l.o~:: .. mi:a r:r questions,really 1

preamble should be quite brief. MR. NEARY: !.fuat I want to find out, Hr. Speaker, and I thin k this is a very, very serious matter, Where do we go from here? "!:'.. ItOtTSS~.At:: @:. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: his seat. ~.ROUSSEAU: A !'Oii."lt of privlc.~2., ~!-r. Spea:~er. A point of privilege. Oh,the hon. gentleman is back in Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for La Poile (Mr.Neary) suggested that the union was not able to contact me. I have been in contact with the union and I am now presently trying to contact the company) so I would appreciate it if the hen. member would retract that statement. HR.

SPEAKER: Order,please:It is not a matter on which,obviously , I have any decision to make, it is a difference of opinion into which the Chair will not enter. The hen. member. 54:1

December 11, 1978 Tape ~o. 225 EC - 1 PREMIER ~100RES: an illegal stri~e taking place, nor should they get involved where there is an illegal strike taking place. What will happen is when the stri~ers go back to work we will immediately go in and try to resolve the differences between the group, but, Sir, I do not think anyone who looks at this rationally would suggest that government should become involved in a situation that is illegal.

Secondly, I would like to say, Sir, when we talk about the prosperity of Sept-Iles, the responsibility of why Sept-Iles is so prosperous as it is, I would suggest, rests as much with the previous governments of this Province as it did with anybody else. And that is why we are talking about Port Labrador, why we are talking about the development of the power in Labrador for Labradorians so that we can do the job for Labrador that should have been done twenty years ago. SOME HON. MEMBERS: UR. LUSH: !!R. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! A supplenentary, Mr. Speaker.

I had indicated that I would reco~nize the han. the member for Windsor- Buchans next. MR. FLIG!IT : from the hon. member. c1R. SPEAKER : I will yield to a supplementary Order, please! I will recognize the han. gentleman, but just so that our principles or our procedure will be straight here, the bon. 3entl~man may yield, but I do not think the hen. gentleman can then sort of. determine whom the Chair will recognize. The hen. the member for Terra Nova. ~!R. LUSH: :tr. Speaker, a question to the Fre~ier with respect to the Wabush situation.

I think there is a definite procedure to be followed within the collective agreemant wi~~ respect to contracting out. ~ ow I do not know whetner this particular case was an exception. 542

Uece~ber 11, 1978 Tape No. 225 EC - 2 :IR. LUSH: Can che Premier verify that? There is a definite procedure in the collective agreement with respect to contracting out, and I do not know whether this particular case was an exception or whether it applies to everything, whether companies contracting out have to follow procedure irrespective of what the contracting- out deal is? HR. SPZAKER: The hon. the Premier. ? REHIER HOORES: Mr.

Speaker, I am advised that this was an exception in that the work could not be done in a given period of time, and that is where that overtime thing that I mentioned earlier came into play where one said one thing and one said the other. And that is sonething that has obviously got to be checked into and followed through with. But the answer to the han. gentle~an is I am not sure, and that is one of the things we are trying to ascertain now. HR. FLIG llT: Mr. Speaker. 0 0 0 MR. FLIGHT: Over already? HR. SPEAKER ; Unless you want to have a second Question Period. The thirty minutes have expired.

ORDERS OF THE DAY c-IR. SPEAKER : 0::-.rlc r 1 . The adjourned debate on the Address in Reply. The hon. the nember for St. George's. :·IRS. :rciSAAC : Thank you, Hr. Speaker . SOME RON. MEHBERS : !lear, hear! 543

rec2=Wer 1~, 1973 Tape No. ~26 ~;::: - 1 'Cl.S. ::c:::.SAAC: I Hill try to pick up :.<l1ere I left off !'ri.G.av :v2r:i~;, "~:-. Spea1~ar, I o~l:t !1ave f:!.ve illnut.:s then, so I -::ill ::;~t a''ay from t...'J.at little '.:lit of rolling aro=d in the aud t:uc I ~ii! ::'ri~2.y evening and get dotrn to t!1e pro"ulc.I:J....e; of r.:.y C.istrict nou. ~.nd I do not :,ave to worry about u:,ic': on2 I am ;;oing to :1.it because you na.ne t~en and ~·'e :1a.ve t:'lem, i:J. all depart:;1ents.

So I think I will .start off ''i th tl~e Departmer.t of Fisheries, fisheries· developne:\t, as it a:r?lies or does not apply to "=Y ?articula.r district. We ~ve in the district of 3:.. Secr.z.:' s, ir.. the TI2.y St. George area, I t~inl:: ,a ·~:-ronclerful po::ential for fisheries developi'lent but it is ;:;,e~lected. it is not develo?ed. I 'tould like to kno~~ just hmv much l!loney is beir.;; :rut into the fisheries development in the Bcy St. Ceor:;:e are."l ~y t~;.e !'rovincial govert1..l!l.e:lt.

I l':.:l.OW there is some ')eing :->Ut in t~cre by t~e federal gov~n-~cr:t. 1 ~GlO'N" th~t in th~ CoC.:roy '11:'~-3.; for i~stance .. there is a $78, OIJO Canada r.rorl::s project go.i:1g on right :."lotv, Out I do not t~i::1k t~1at t~1erc is too !1uch input by t::.e ?rovincial s;ove=e:J.t,although I stand tc be corrected on t:-.~.at.

T~e Bay ~t. f;aorg~~ are: a ic one af ::~~ 't;ays" one of t~1e areas v1~ere t~-.~..:.re is quite a bit a= fishi::;.g .:.o~~. ~~e cannot prove. that, a.s far as fisi:.. la:1dir:g;s -:-.~~:at faci.!.iti2s ··:rill !::P- re~uired an.: t"':1c 2r:1pl:,:J.sis ~Til:. be if 1:: is ·.Ja.seC: O~i fis~: la.r:.r~i~gs. 544

Ta!le No . 225 :~. ::c :;:~ ;.~··.C : in t:\~ ::;~:; s: . faor.:;c 'l-:cr.,: ··o:;:.: ven t u re : o '!<'Y1 cbt:-t;t 'Ci.nety per car.: of :~t. ~1:::. ::.ct :...s =~ree i.f :h:! ;ninis::er is lool:iu~ for it , :me it is .,~ragrap h fou.r. =o ~ait t O &et our facilities, or &~ : fishing faci.lities i ~ 3ay St. Ceorge, in St . Geor,Re' s area and i:: c:te Robinson' s> 1;; ": rou:;l!:: ar:>w::d ::.'le. coasc . ?Or : c:-:e.r~ in St . Gaorse 's, a oeauti.ful :ta r o our, o::a of . -...... six is . .':.J i:: is too ba<i that che r.: is :'lot somet::1 1c~; .::one ·.i.::·, it.

I :-~c·.: :~.:.t >•e c:u: ge t af ::er t!:le fecie r .U. eovcrr.=\ent bu t I ::hic!t :!.t siloul.! be .:1. joi::t venture and I woul c li:,:a to as!< r.:t.l! ;;:inister :!.i :.a .:.:: ~ou c h :1:!.tu :t:r. Le.tlanc, ~:n f~c t , :'le ·:ao :te re lss:: t:ee:: ar.C.: I t:.::s 545

J~ce~er 11, 1970 Tape 227 D\7-1 ::!\.5. !iCISAAC: I did not get to talk to ;;i;:l. I m.:nti::med it tCJ :,CL;. the last til:!e I met hiD. !:ere :.r. St. Jo::.-:.'s, I ileli.eve it \:as last year. He uas ~1ere a;;;ain thi~; year. I called i1is office after lte went ·.Jack ami I w-as ~uite disapllointed ti.at we dici aot get to talk to him. It is fine for the ;:eople ;.i10 :1ave t~eir fisi1ing facilitie;;; available right am:, or t!1ose \Jhose fisheries are ilemg develo;>e<~, but toJe do not. A.1d it is not i>ecause t:.e fis;1 is not in the 3ay St.

George. '::!1~ :=ish is t.l.ere, it is just a i!latter of having son.; .,ort of facility tnere so that the fish c:m be landed and processed there. There is no reason in the world \;hy a.c.ybody in that area snou:d be unemployed because there are lLundrecis - I ;.1ill not say hundreds I will say dozens of fisi1ermen along that coast ti"ilo t~ould just love to get involved in the fishery \·:ho have been, and their fathers and gr=dfathers before ti1em '»ere. ;3ut ::.:1 the meantime, wi1at do they do t.;itil tl1e fi;;;h if ti1ey go out?

If they ~et a load of fish they have ~o come out and pecidle it door to door, ti1ere are no facilities, no storage facilities. ::n.. il. C~ill.TER: If tl.e iwn. lady ·will ]Jermit I waul~ like t: add to clear up that point. ;;m.S • :-:CISAAC; Yes, I "ould like to i111v.a it cleared .;.;~. . ::t. H. ClJtTErt: Ti.1e Throne St,eech did, in fact, u.ention ti;<J.t there ;,auld oe an assessment G",ade of fishing io'orts •·Jiti; ,.articular emphasis at the beginning ou. i'orts accounti:.~ for =jor lanC:ings. nut in our prOi>osal, !;r.

Spea~.er, ·;e !-.ave clearly stated that all ;;>orts, ~;1ose \·Jith fi:;hery ;:;otential, development \)Otential \·;ill ue j,lart of t:1at overall as~essn,ent l?ror;ram::.Le. So certainly the ~ort out iu St. Georg:'s -....rith its crec:t ;;>Ot(!ntial will fall '.-7iti.1in the guidelines that ;;ave been esta:O,lisi•'-'d ,.;·here;.;y this assessment will be undertaken. ~~. 5PElll'l::R; The !LOn. member. 546

JecewUer 11, 137C Tape :1o. 227 D\-i-2 ::r.s. ~lCIS.\AC: \lell, :1r. Spe~er, I than!~ the d.nister for that. I think that that is ;:;ood neus an.:; I ~n ,;ure the ;:eople of ti1e .3ay St. Gc!orge area •·1ill oe napp:, · to :1ear c:1.at. J:ecause 1-:e definitely have the potential there it is just a r..atter of gettiD.g it developed. I cannot uncersta..•d ~;hy nil the fi:;:. h<!~ ::o be ta!.~en fr= the 5a:/ St. George area and tal~en all around t;,e coast or taken to Port aux i3asques or further ::han this, along th" 3cuth coact =d in some cases to Sydney. All tl>e ;:,oats :1ave to come in.

T;1ey come in a.."l.d tie up at the wl1arf in St. George's u ::;to=s or 11hen there is a w-iD.d forecast and on numerous occasions the l!lCn i1ave told o.e that there is no way that the~· could Keep tl~e fici:, tlle:r sometices end up having to dWI:p a w-hole load of fish ~ecause t:h!Y cailllot get to t;le facilitieG. If ..,-e i1ad somo:tiling lii~e that .:.n ::Jt. Georga's area- I am not ~ayint; ri~ht in ~t. George's, ~y!Je -"o.:JC·,.·ru~re iD. tile Ro!Jinsons area, I do not care <illere it is, ::,ut I certainly &<!e tl.e nee.: for it there .:m.: I am glad tl1e W.11is t~r reco~izes the nec.d <ll.l.C:.

I l.~.o·~;,2 ti.~.at so1:1ettiu~ will ~c c!one ~ So since I :,ave some aso;ura:nce from the ruinister that 1,e will ::.c..t ue left out o£ t~1is e:u.git.~.ccriub assessment or ~.' !latcver u.c r.;rovo.;es tc call it, we:ll tllen, I l'ill probauly drop it rigllt there. dm~ I di" o;ee t:1at it is ?lanned to cot;.struct several new facilities at ;::tratef_ic locations. I lLope that ·we are one. of tlLe strategic locC!tious, I t.i.:r.inl ... \·ie are.

He have problci!:S in the area, uot o;.1ly with tile fishery. ;:~ :•11ve an area, a ~eautiful agricultural ar.aa, .:m area that is underc.lavelo~ed ~ainly Decause cf lz..cl~ of polic:,r c..n tu.e part o~ t:~e t;ovamoent.. l~J·Ge t.1er.;: c....uy ~e ;;o~ little. t~~in~ t:.at t:le faruers can Co too to :H!l? nnci I ~ sure t;.l.:Lt t~1ey are il.Ot abainst ci.Litlr-ing in anC: C.:cinb tb.cir !)art.

Ti .. ey have bee!1 farmi.:.1~ ~u their l.i·vC!s, ti.r.ey i:.ncw· ~-hat is r~quirctl ~u i::. .:...~ ~u.~t a uatte;r of r;attinE; tot;et~1er with governru.ent anU. tr;in.g to encourage young farmer£ au<.: the farc.ers that are ir.~. titere now, in fact, to stay ir.. anci. 547

ec~e~ 11, 197G Ti!pe :;o . 227 D:l-3 ....:" • :rcrs.:V.C: along Hi th bat encourage ne1·; f.~:r..:ers, ycun;r. fil.rlr.ers tc :;at: involved, new involvement. eca.u.se :;ilis is one of the areas ;;iu~re ·M·e ·.ave, i woulu say, 'iUite an acrea:;c of far::U.and , caybe soce of til.;:, <>est £nm.land in t.:::e ?ro vi::lce. But again t:.he·re is very 1 ccle !::2nt:.on, as far as at;riculture is co::cerneci, in the Spee c!l from anu t a f<~rmcrs are having 548 e "':'lrone, very litt:J.e I

December 11, 1978 Tape 228 PK - 1 Mrs. Mcisaac: problems. They last Summer, invited the Minister of Agriculture out to have a meeting. In the meantime, they presented all their proposals to him, and the minister came back with a bunch of proposals from the farmers and the farmers in the area have not heard tell of him since. Mr. Speaker, I guess it is not customary for the person who is speaking to call a quorum, but I do not intend to stand here and talk to myself so I would like to call a quorum. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (MR. YOUNG): A quorum is called. will ask the Clerk to count the House?

We have a quorum. The hon. member for St. George's. MRS. MCISAAC: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is nothing as aggrevating,when you have as many problems in a district as I have, as to stand here and try to bring the problems of your district to the floor of the House of Assembly and to look around and see nobody in their seats, to stand here and talk to the four walls. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: to do with them. 1·1RS. MCISAAC : Hear, hear!

Dock their pay that is the proper thing And as far as I am concerned this is probably why we are in the position we are in- Because when members are up speaking and trying to pass on the problems of their districts han. ministers are out in the cqrridors or off doing other work and they never find out what is going on. They are certainly not going to read Hansard. They do not know what is going on in my district, they do not know how neglected it is and they do not care. MR. NEARY: That is right. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MRS.

MCISAAC: And I do not intend to stand here and put up with that kind of stuff. came here and I intend to pass on to every minister what is needed in my area, or my views of what is needed, 549

December 11, 1978 Tape 228 PK - 2 Mrs. Mcisaac: and if the ministers,are not going to listen to it well then I just might as well go on home and forget about it and go visit my district and walk around and talk to the people in my district _ MR. NEARY: Right. MRS. MCISAAC: - and tell them,What point is there in coming into this hon. House of Assembly and standing here yapping for forty-five minutes when nobody is going to listen to you. MR. NEARY: Right. MR. HICKMAN: There are only six aver there. MRS. MCISAAC: They cannot do anything about it.

While they should be here to support me, they cannot do much about my problems. But the hon. members across the way, or ministers of this Crown - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MRS. MCISAAC: certainly look into them. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MRS. MCISAAC: Hear, hear! - if they know the problems they can Hear, hear! It is good to have moral support, but think we need more than moral support, we need our views heard in this House and that is what we are here for. But I thank the hon. Minister of Fisheries for sitting in his seat until I was finished on the fisheries bit, and he enlightened 550

December 11, 1978 Tape :>o. 229 EC - 1 :IRS. o1ciSAAC: then he left. enlightened me a little bit and Well, that is fine, I said what I had to say on fisheries and I thank him. I do not know what I was on now, I think I was on agriculture. And as far as agriculture is concerned, it again, is neglected. And it does not make any difference that that particular minister is not there because it is falling on deaf ears anyway.

I have yapped for three years now about the agricultural problems in the district and the minister just sits there and he does nothing about it and he does not even have the courtesy to answer the farmers in the area when they put proposals to him. :!R. NEARY: They cannot even get their limestone on time down there. !1RS. l·iciSAAC : In fact, right now in the Robinsons area they have a $90,000 Canada Works project.

And the Minister of Agriculture is not here, but the Acti~g Minister is here and I would appreciate it if maybe he would hear what I have to say and maybe there is something that he can do to help the farmers in the Robinsons area. ~1R. NEARY : c-!RS. UciSAAC: Hear, hear! There is a $90,000 Canada Works project approved in that area for a holding facility and, of course, again it is the same problem as the stadium in St. George's, they have to start work in January. They have requested some land.

They have storage facilities out there now and they have been looking for this land which is supposedly under the control of Newfoundland Farm Products. They have gone to ~ewfo~ndland F~rm Product~ and asked them if they could put that buildin~ on that site or on that block of land and Newfoundland Farn Products said the responsibility is with the minister , you have to get permission from the minister. So they have requested 551

December 11, 1978 Tape No. 229 EC - 2 MRS. MciSAAC: permission and they have not received permission. The minister ia not here, and this project is supposed to start in January. Now what is going to happen? Are we going to lose another $90,000 in St. George's in the Robinsons area because nobody can say, 'Go ahead and put that holding facility on that land? I do not know if it is leased or granted or what to ~ewfoundland Farm Products. And Agriculture knows the problems, they know that they do not have facilities for vegetable storage o~ holding facilities, whatever you want to call it.

They are encouraging on the farm storage. I know one gentleman out there who went along with this project. They can get up to $10,000 for on the farm storage, but they cannot get it until the building is completed. He has his building completed. Where is his $10,000? He cannot get it. So if he does not get $10,000 he is licked next Spring. He has the facility, but that is all he has because he will not be able to afford to put a potato in the ground unless somebody gives him a few bags for seed.

It is about time that that department got organized and set their priorities straight instead of trying to downgrade the agricultural industry in that area and trying to run the farmers out of business, that they get together with the farmers and try to help them. And the Speech from the Throue does not say all that much about agriculture. And I do not think that anybody in government is that much concerned about it, because they seem to think that it is a petty little thi&g, just a back-garden affair. But it is not a back-garden affair, it is a bigger affair than that, it is an industry.

We could provide as far as the West Coast 552

December 11, 1978 Tape No. 229 EC - 3 HRS . l!ciSAAC: is concerned, three times the produce that they are providing if they aad ~ li ttle bit of assistance from government. Bu t as I said before, they cannot even get any answer from the Minister of AGriculture . I do no t know what ne has aga i nst t hat area. He went out there last year, they put fo.ward their proposals which he was very happy to accept, and they hav e not heard a word about it, and , of course, they have been trying now to get t his bit of land that Newfoundl and Farm Prod ucts do not seel!l to own .

As far as Newfoundland Farm rroducts are concerned, the governm ent own it; as far as the Departmen t of Agri~u l ture i s concerned, the Newfoun d land Farm Products own it. Now who owns the land and t1hy can the farmers out there not get t hat land to put that $90,000 fac ilit y there? It is a job cre·ation thing, it is Canada l·Torks money, they are not asking fo r one cent from the Pr ov incial Government - $90 ,000 federal money, and all they need is a little piece of land to put it on. the land is there, they have holding facilities there now and they need another one.

And here are our farmers who cannot produce up to capacity fo ·r the simple reas ·on that they do not have holding facilities. Now if somebody is not going co come to their assistance, well chen, we just might as well wrap it up and everybody go and just li.ne up at the Social Services office. 553

December 11, 1978 Tape 230 PK - 1 Mrs. Mcisaac: There are enough people in Bay St. George on social assistance right now. And the farmers in Robinson's area and in the Codroy Valley area and everywhere else have been hard working men, and their fathers and grandfathers before them, and a lot of them are proud people -and they do not want to end up on social assistance.

But as a result of lack of policy and just, I do not know, it seems to me as though they are being completely ignored, and this is what is going to happen to them, they are going to end up in the ranks of the unemployed, the lines of social assistance going for handouts, and they do not want to do it, and I do not want to see them do it. So I am asking the Acting Minister of Agriculture if I cannot get answers from the Minister of Agriculture- I have tried on several occasions and I have not gotten any direct answers from him.

He skates around a little bit and gives you an answer that you have to pick apart and when you finally get it picked apart it does not make sense any way. So maybe the Acting Minister can work on that one and see if it is possible to get that piece of land for the people of Robinson's , for the farmers of Robinson's so that they can start construction on that building. And then to go back to previous Speeches from the Thronei last year, anyway and the year before --- oh there was a big write­ up there a couple of years ago and big plans for a purchasing and marketing agency for the farmers of Newfoundland.

What happened to that? If it is a reality I do not know about it. I do not know anything about a purchasing and marketing agency for the farmers. It was in the Speech from the Throne a couple of years ago. And, of course, it is still going to come through some time, but I do not know when. By that time all of the farmers will be out of business. So now we find out we have something set up out there and I do not even know what it is , the farmers do not know what it is, and I doubt very much if the government knows. I asked a question the other day, I did not get the answer.

It is called - well let me see what it is called now, I have it here somewhere - Vegetable Associates Limited or something like 554

December 11, 1978 Tape 230 PK - 2 Mrs. Mcisaac: that - I will find it in a minute- but I do not know what it means, and am sure that the people of the area do not know what it means, And I am sure that they are not happy with it, when they sell about $1,300 worth of vegetables and get about $700 for the $1,300 worth vegetables that they have passed on. I do not know what is happening to their money or what kind of a percentage they are paying, but as far as I am concerned if they sell $1,300 worth of vegetables and they end up getting a cheque for $700.

I would like to know what is happening to the rest of the money. There is a 10 per cent holdback. What is this Vegetable Marketing Associates Limited? Does anybody know? Does the minister or the Acting minister know? AN HON MEMBER: never heard of it. MRS. MCISAAC: There is a Vegetable Marketing Associates Limited they have their headquarters in Botwood. MR. F. ROWE: Who is the Acting minister? MRS. ISAAC: I do not know what the story is on it. I do not know if it was set up as a result of this - AN HON. MEMBER: - set up for Wooddale and that area. MRS. MCISAAC: For Wooddale area?

Well1 it is also accepting produce from our area. The farmers from our area are taking their vegetables there, and there is a 10 per cent holdback _ on it. I do not know what is happening to the rest of the money or how much they are charged for having their vegetables mark~ted, but I do know and I saw some of the statements where one farmer shipped $1,300 and­ something dollars worth of vegetables, and I have the slip, there is a 10 per cent holdback, but there are also other charges, I do not know what they are, but he ended up with, well, less than $700. So I think something like that should be investigated.

And the farmers in the area,~ from what I can understand from speaking to them,thought that this was associated or this may be the purchasing and marketing agency that government has been talking about for so long. I do not know if it has any connection at all with government. I would also like to know how much, if any, government money went into that Vegetable Marketing Associates Limited? 555

December 11, 1978 Tape 230 IB-3 MRS. MCISAAC: The minister is writing it, Vegetable Marketing Associates Limited, Box 460, Botwood. From what I can understand there are fanners on it. Now7 if the farmers are on it I do not know what it is. It ~Y be s-et up by government, I doubt it very much. But I certainly think that it should be looked into because the fanners are losing far too 1111ch money 556

December 11, 1978 Tape 3o. 231 EC - 1 XRS. MciSAAC : and if they have to give away the cream of the crop - and when you sell $1,300 worth of vegetables and you get back $700, the cream and more than the cream is gone, you only end up with half the skim milk there. So that is going a little bit too far, and I think that if we want to get our agricultural industry developed and we want to keep the farmers interested in it and develop new interests then we have to do something. I would like to know what happened to the purchasing and marketing agency that was going to be set up by government.

I hope that this is not it, because if it is, it is ridiculous and I cannot see government even going along with something like this and putting money into it or passing it on to somebody else and saying, 'We are not going to ~o it, you go ahead and do it, 1 and loaning them money to do it, because if so, I think there is something wrong.

Now I cannot say anything more on this because I do not know what the story is, but I did see enough when·I attended a meeting with the farmers in Robinsons area to find out that this thing is happening and I do not think they are happy with it, because they would be far better off - and I think that they are bound in some way to stick with this for a certain length of time or lose the 10 per cent holdback along with the rest that they are losing. I have not been able to get any information on it. So I will ask the minister (acting) if he will look into it and try to find out what the story is.

The potential is there. We have the beautiful farm land, as I said before, and I caunot say it often enough that it is one of the best agricultural areas in the Province, but yet it is not developed and there is no encouragement for development and the farmers are 5~

December 11, 1978 Tape :lo. 231 EC - 2 :ras. :1ciSAAC: eventually going to say, 'So ~ucb for that, we just cannot keep going,' because they are not making any money on it. And somebody - pcssibly I should not make this charge - but I think that somebody is involved in this outfit who is making the money, money that should be going back to the farmers. There is 10 per cent holdback and if there is a 15 per cent or 20 per cent charge or whatever, maybe, for handling it, all right,fine, but this is almost 50 per cent, this is going up to 45 per cent that the farmers are losing on their vegetables.

Now I do not think the department knows anything about this, but they know now. And I would also like the minister to look at this situation here where the farmers have $90,000 Canada Works money and cannot get the land to put the building on, and ~awfoundland Farm Products say the government own it and the government say it is turned over to :fewfoundland Farm Products.

Jow I will leave both of these in the hands of the minister. l"e have our forestry resource out there, we have people who worked in the forest industry for years and years who are not working right now simply because there is a freeze on the land, on the timber blocks, and I can understand this to a point. I know that . if the Linerboard, or whatever you are going to call it from now on,opens up again two or three years down the road or w~enever, that it is going to be necessary to have pulpwood - I can understand that. But I cannot understand why the freeze is on the saw log operation, or the saw log blocks.

There are acres of saw logs in that area and the saw logs are just getting cut up and sent to the paper mills. There are sawmills in the area that are crying for logs and trying to get blocks of ti~ber so that they can cut logs for their operation. I know one gentleman in particular 558

)ece~ber 11, 1978 Tape ~o. 231 EC - 3 :~s . ~ciS~AC: who has not cut a log since July. He was in an area where a bridge washed out. lt ~as not his fault the bridge washed out, this just happened to be where his block was located.

And I certainly did not expect the government to go in and build a new bridg e to gee him back into that one area, but 1 certainly think that they should have located another area and made another area available co hin. ea did not want to get back in - he did not request that the gove rnment replace the bridge so that he could set back into the old area, all he wanted was an area where he could go in and cut saw logs. And there are lots of areas o ut there, there were areas, in fact, selected 559

':'a:'c ~~o. 232 CIT - 1 ::r..s. ~"c.Isnac: ':·!as ::lO reason i~ the ":rorld. ~ .. ~hy he could :::;.at ~1a.vc .=.. bloc& of tt.2.t tiL"l~er a...""lci if he. c~ not iln.ve 1 t 3lld those sa'\-; logs are going to the Fulp ;;rills taen there is something radically Hrong ~lith tile operat:ior-. as far as the forestry is concerned.

Also last: year or the year . before in one c.once=, t:~1at the pulp~·rood 11ould go to tl1e paper mills and ttat the se~·l logs "oulJ go to the saw mills, but that is not happeni:J.g. ileautiful st=ds of saw logs bei:lg slashed down and chopped U? a..'1.d sent out for pulp~Jood and here IJe are in a position where ~'e have to impo:::t all ldrlds of builtiing materials - lumber, ~·lher. l.'e :~ave it, being sliced up and sent to the pulpwood !!!ills. So I think it is tine t:1at t!l.e Department of Forestry got out =d l·•all;ed around the l·roods ['I little Dit 2Ild dec::!.C:eC. just 't·.;rhich areas shoulU.

De c.!esigaatacl for sew lo:; operators and ;rhich areas should be designated as pulrmood areas. And this "as two years :.go til.at t!l.is ~ras i:1 the '"peech from the =:1rone but it has not ~aterialized, it is still goinz on, sa~ logs are still 30i:l.g to the pulp mlls and 11ill continue to unless soll!ebody t<>.kes the bull by tl1e horns and goes out and does it. You tal!..: about a policy, governnent policies, fares try ~olicitas, agri­ cultural policies, fisheries policies - I uo not :,:.;:J.O~r \·lhere tb.ey are. As I have s2ic!

I :~ave gotten good satisfcction frau t:12 r.::.i::i.;ter tod .:ty, Zle is goi!!g to tui:.c a lool:. at our fi.sltii!.z :-·ote::.~ial out t~1.;.re and see 'hat can ';-.e done. :,o.,.T1 I ic.opa that tha c:inister of Forestry P.nd .!.eri·~ulture C~r. :·1aynarc!) ~rill also tP.!ce a lool~ at ~v~u~t is 3oi~2. o:t ·as f.:1r as a2;riculture and as f:1r r=.s for::;stry is conce.rr:E:t.L :·:e do r .. ot see :t.."'1y ·:.xcuse ~-n ':~is Tlotld toc!.:.y ... "~-Y p~o~le s:1ould :Oe ":·!ithout the basic necessity of life. All 1·.re 7:a.,re to Co is turn on t:1e tars i:: St. Jch:-~':;, ir:. Corner Broo!<., anC: i~1. St.

Geo1:ge' s, all t~:.~ f'·i~scr c.o'I!U':.U:lities . Thousa:r:tds, ~.illior.3 ?.=.d. rti~li.ot·~ s cf ,.:.:--ll:trs o?-Cr .. c. do\'!l 560

Deca~er 11, 1978 T.:tpe ~~o. 232 c-,1 - 2 "!',S. ~!ciS--V.C: simply because it uas not sU?ervisec!, t~c~· Cr:.ined us O.r:.~. There ~-Tas enough ~o~ey spent on the centr:1l o.rea cf St. Geor~e's :o de the e:1t"!.re tO";·!!l :md r..ore besides. ~·:e do 110t ~1c.v:: ':!W:.r ~:-te $3 ,0tl'l, '100 "!?-rc~ ;o.r.d '·'e have only ~otten the centrel

section of t~1e tc~m done. _,\nd it has got to be lack of concern on everybody's part. The ccnsultmts ~re doir.g just as !:'1-.ey please. I t:li:a:~ it is ti!:te co I t:~i~:. t=--.at it ls a~out t:Uile t:1at so~eDoG.y t:oot:. a lao~ at t~1at depart- selacti:1g coii.sulta:lts. L.1-a tovm. of S:::. ~eorge' s :1ad a cou.3ul tail~, ;::112-Y \·Tere tolC:. ~o get ri:i of :dm and get a:1.ot:1er one . They got another one si:..J..ca and t:1e. sys ta;jl ia not ccmpl~ te.. If lt lUJ.G. tee:u. ~a41.c!laC. prop- erly t:~e:e was no:--_e~· e:J.oug~ to <!a St ..

George's \Vater ill"ld s~~~= system a..-:.d,a.3 I :;ai.i, seven ot:ler smell cor.n:nU!litie:s ii.1 t~e area. bes!~as t~at. Iller~ are :1ol~s drilled all over t!le place. The ;;.:est Co'"st i::; so full cf :lol:=s ~l1..:::t if the -:7ater ever sta:-ts l.:>ubbli:-..3 up ve are all e;o::1e .. ::::. ~-'T!.::?: It is a ~:-oTider sile C:o~s :-.o.: si:.:.=..:. out t::-.ere, there are so many holes. It is a ... ..;ror..de.r s~1c Goes ~ct sir:.l:.

T:.:~=e. is r:ot cne comr::~.unity thz.t ~o~s !".at :1ave .:J.t lc.c~ st seven :1oles ~rillc1 ::or art~.;iaa."""l. ~.-7el1.s. l.fR • NEARY: ·_ ~S • :IciSJ')_C: They did not hit oil did they? t:-.. ey u uul2. ::o scn~bod:.r sane good.. tut the holes ~re t:~e:re c=.::.C t=.E!.y .:.rc j'..l::;t :"!ole:s in t !~e grounC. 561

T.:pe ::o . ::32 C:1 - 3 1-'F. SPEAKER: Order,please! AN RON .}<"EMlER: Not onlv rhiq .,..tmi"<"tr ation . ::\S. . :c !S.'.\C: :\o , it is :.:ot only t!~:!.s i1C...'1i!l!.s <:r.atio n . I :.:::m :::at Wis .a6ninist r a tio:l is t'.ot rcspoc si':Jle fo r ail t~e :~oles 6o.t But the thing about it is , I am not blamin2 :;ou :...~o~: eive crecii:: t1aere crzc!i t is cue ~d ::~e :::l=e ~::te r£ .:.: ii:!s 1 th~ ;>revious administration did t he same thin:: , :·•;.:nt ou t ;-rio r 562

Ia~;e: 2JJ : . ..;t:; . ::cl5AAC : to an election and drilled holes all over t.u: l'iace. 'lids acfuri.nistration did ti.e SaLle thin;.;, ran out and drilled SitoU'ler bunch of iLoles. iastead of takia~ anci :1ool ... int; -...s.p tl-,e ~oles that ,Jere alread; Jrill.:ci because you cannot - them wells, they are :1oles rig;;t now' they are net doing anybody any good. HR.MORGAN: As long as there is no water they will drill. ! ~..3. l~ciS.AAC; :.;o, there is water tnere. :!:hey :.ave itad them tested, the capacity i:> there.

There is lots of ;.rater tilere, Go Ui'ly can lvc not have them i'looked up? .3ut instear.l of that, no, there is all l•ind.> of =aey for everyti1in1:; else, tilere is no money for "rinkiu:; water. There are people with cont~nated wells.

And I have to remind the Minister of the Environment that last year when I presented a netition :1ere in t~•e C:ouse - t:llis was to do •;;ith salt in ti1e ~later iu one are;;;, aud this .. · as, you kn~;, drainage fr= the :..!.ghway - the ;-:inister of Environment spoi'e to it and ile said that they would ·..,e able to :1elp, not rie;ilt theu but u.ot in the distant :::uture; not too far in the distant future, they would be able to helv people \vho had problems .:ith this ty;:e of t!ling l>"itil tile drinking water. The De-;;artment of ~~unicipal l>ffairs tolcl t;e tile Salile t:i:J.ing.

But it does not help to put it on pa.,er, t~at is 1~ot i1elping t!le ,..eople in the area ,,hen t;1ey ::ave ~at to t~ a ~unch of l'lastic pails and iJuci:.ets and 1Jots =C: .;ans anti everything that they can find and go miles anc z:!iles to tite sprinb or to a taj? that may i:Je outsiue the tmm office in one of t1.c cor...1uni ties and haul ,.,ater :wme in ~ici<-ups, iu tr..tck.s, in 2ll kinds of containers for household use, for flusili~<, the toilet, fer ~iaS~ling clotl~es; for all household needs, for c!rinking ·v.a.terJ for llaC.'ls .

It is fierce out~orts are living or trying to live and nobody seems to care, Because I think that if we get our .,riorities stra::.ght ~'lli-t t:lcre is one thing in the ~-;orl::: that people are entitled to it is cle2a, ci.ece::.l.t ~rini.<..in g I·Ia.ter. If .=iOIJ::!thing happened tc tl~~ \:ater syste~ :.:..n 3t. Jol~c.'s or in t;;O!:::.e of t.ii.e lerser cor~.unities .-..;ltere ycu ~lad to carry -,mter tlce ·•ay tl:2t c;;.e ;:;ac;olt: i:J. "'-Y area are doing it, then you r...,·oillJ ~~ear t ~ l.e outcry, b~r:;n. ~iUU cuulL fillc,;_ uut t~ ..: at ;:0"J ca.~ct 563

~~ce~er 11, 1~7[ Tape 233 C.U.-2 L.~ 1iit .. lout G.ecer..t cirici..:.in;:; ·.;a.ter, "uu.t :~.of tlle t-eo~l..a in ~y area can do ";~·ithout C:ecent clrinki:Llg water t~H;; :;;eople iu tb.e City of St. Jcll:J.' s can ~o witl..icut it or tiLe Cit:;( of Co=er Brook or any .. ;ilere else. I know what it ;i.s like to have carry 'tw·ater in 'Juckets because my ~ell went ci.ry too ~·liLeo. they Kere ~utti:u.g in the ·w·ater and. sewer syste:n:. anci I lugged it in five-gallon ~ails <me. I };now what it is like.

But most of tile llle11.i..ars on titat side of th.a House and a few en ti:.is si~e of the Liouse too probably_ do :J.Ot know what it is like but most of us do. Jut tue tiling auout it is it is nothing but lack of conce=. l-Ie d.o not ;lave to do it so li"e do not care vho else ends up dt·agging water or how tliey get it.

But if v:e :1ad to go out =d live in those co=u::llties, just stay t~!ere for a week and carry water for your household needs for f~lies of six and seven anci eight and nine and ten you..-l.gsters, til.en 1,;e lioulci Lno1v w·hat it is a.:l about and tr.en ;:;;ayoe 111e would have a true a-.:;preciation of tile .,robleiL., =ci that ;;ay maybe some of the ;eople in ti1e area may get drinl~ng water. !·1r.

Speaker, since I am i1ere I do not know hot-: many petitions t:1at I presented for a decent water supply and I do not imow l1ow many times I have ~oue to Eunicipal Affairs Hith ;-roble .. ·u; t.J ;,et artesian uells.

«e ;lave ended u1> witi• a couple, but rr.o~:;t of them that 1-1ere started ••ere never com1-leted, I tiJ.ink it is J;!UC::l :..etter if you :J.re going to de one to drill the nole, tiL~u ,'ut ti.e ;.>UUJo- tilere =ci the ;;umphouse anu at least a dozen or fifteen or t:wanty fanilia:. 111ill be aiJle to tal.e :J.civautage of it rather tuan ~o all over til.:. ~:est coast and drill ;101es all over t~.e Jest ccast and nciJo<ly can t&•e advanta~e of it1 all tllat is there is a Junc;; of aoles. ::o-w, tl.te ~eo!Jle on t:i1e .·iest coast in r.~y Jlstrict clo ~lot cle!;)erve t:.O.at. '.Ll,ey are :1arci. ••orkers or tuey would lil,;e to be itarder workars if t,.ove:rrl2ent .,"\'as not f'Utting a stUii.lUling Ylccl<. i:1. their ;;;~.y.

Everyl<J'iJ.ere t:u:!)' turn tJ.1ere is a stul!lJlin~; blod-. They have run into a brick wall as far a,; agriculture is concerneu, as Ear as forastry is concerned, and a -.:ater 3Uflj;'ly . You·. ~·=e it and they run into it. _;0\-J sure, there is ti1ere is water in the Codroy Valley area, nmJ tl,ey ar~ ?uttin~ in a syste!>! to a fish plant out there. I titinb;. titere is $70, JQO Canada ~·iorks :...icney t,OinL into it, ~ut in t~.~.e LJeantin-.e 1 there 564

u ~ce~er ll, 1978 TaiJe 233 C.i-3 are '"l:;o apJJlications in here frau t.,e i:=ciiate area wnare ti1at trunl~ line is t;oing clown to the fi~i:. ,,L:mt a.TJ.~ t;1e JJeople caul<.! not ;;et even a f<:\J Lundre<.l feet of iJi~e t c; :.,e aUle to i. .Look cuto b1at trunk line, so tiley Qad to get to g .::~l ...:r. T h e~/ ar~ sick 565

December 11, 1978 Tape 234 IB-1 MRS. MCISAAC: and tired of waiting to hear from Municipal Affairs, from Water Services Division about whether or not they are ever going to get water in that area. so they have gotten together now and they are putting in their own water system, their own water supply, paying for it out of their own pockets and they should not have to do it anymore than the people in any other area. MR. NEARY: Right! MRS. MCISSAC: But it seems as though nobody knows what is going on on the West Coast.

And I would like to invite every minister on that side of the House to come out to the West Coast and run through my area and just see what problems the people in that area have. MR. NEARY: Right. The Trans-Canada Highway is a good example. MRS. MCISSAC: Yes. And live in the areas. Get out and live in those communities for a little while and carry the water for the people and then you will have a different tune. MR. NEARY: That is right. MRS.

MCISSAC: And I will bet you that when election time rolls around everybody will be out yelling out, oh there are water systems going here and water systems going there and somewhere else and the minute they lose in that area so much for the water systems. AN HON. MEMBER: The member for St. John's Center does not know what you are talking about. MRS. MCISSAC: They were promised water supplies - yes the member for St. John's Center (Mr. Murphy) knows what I am talking about because he knows what the story is as far as contaminated water is concerned.

He knows there is an area out in the Codroy Valley and he said last year - MR. NEARY: He knows about the garbage. MRS. MCISSAC: - that he was going to look into it and see what he could do. I sent a telegram in here to three ministers, to the Minister of Environment, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Municipal Affairs asking them if they would get together on the situation out in Woodville. of Health. Well fine, I got a reply to the telegram from the Minister got a reply. They were going to try to get together from 566

December 11, 1978 Tape 234 IB-2 MRS. MCISAAC: what I could understand and set up a meeting and discuss the problems out there. And the problems have not been discussed and the people are still,not drinking the contaminated water but are using it for household needs and then they have got to carry water for drinking purposes. The dumps are still in the same condition, the waste disposal sites. have talked to the minister about that and I am hopeful that he is going to try and get an incinerator in that area. Possibly somebody will get that area cleaned up and give the people out there decent drinking water.

When you have had decent drinking water and it is becoming contaminated because of neglect on somebody's part, it is a lot worse then than if you never had it before because if you did not_nave it you do not miss it. But a lot of them had it and now it is contaminated. So I can go on and on. That is only a few of the problems. AN HON. MEMBER: The artesian well water is contaminated? MRS. MCISAAC: No, they are shallow wells. They are wells. There are no artesian wells there but there are wells drilled in the __ area, ' it is only a matter of completing them.

If Municipal Affairs or Water Services Division would make the money available to the water committees in the different areas then, you know, everybody would have decent drinking water. And if I could see that only in my district - AN HON. MEMBER: $100 per family. MRS. MCISAAC: There are so many problems in the district that you know it just turns your stomach and makes you wonder, well what am I doing in here. I am not accomplishing a thing by coming in here and crying about the problems in the area. MR. MORGAN: Well have they formed water committees and made applications. MRS.

MCISAAC: The water committees have applications galore in here. They are down in Municipal Affairs that high. ~- ~RMN: $100 per family - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! / MRS. MCISAAC: But in the meantime,the applications that are in to water services, that is not helping the people. But if I could 567

December 11, 1978 Tape 234 IB-3 MRS. MCISAAC: see decent water throughout my area, if I could see the people who are lugging it and hauling it now in five gallon pails, if I could see them with water that would be one accomplishment and that would be something. All r_ight the farmers can get organized and the fishermen and the woodsmen and they can continue to fight. Eventually~maybe~we will get something; but water is something that people should not have to wait for and if you had to wait for it in this area, in St. John's, like I said,there would be a public outcry.

And in my area I would venture to say that about 75 per cent of the people have not got decent drinking water. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! MRS. MCISAAC: And this is a disgrace and as far as I am concerned the administration, everybody"over there should be ashamed to say that they are part of a government that would deprive the people of decent drinking water. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MRS. MCISAAC:_ And that is what I feel, that the government is depriving the people because the government is the only one who can say, the money is available, there it is. I can go on.

I have got other ones; the stadium- I have a million but I will get a chance at the rest of them later. MR. SIMMONS: The member for Ferryland. MR. H. COLLINS: (Inaudible). 568

December 11, 1973 11RS. }!ciSAAC: :m. H. COLLINS: Tape )To. 235 EC - 1 Pardon? ~Inaudible) water in St. George's when I was in Municipal Affairs and you were the Town Clerk over there. HRS. ~lciSAAC: :iR. H. COLLINS: that they did there. MB.. NEARY: :·IRS. MciSAAC: Right. I thought that was a great job Thanks to Alex Dunphy. Yes, right. We got water in St. George's but only in the central area of it.

There was enough mone0 if it had been handled properly and it was not the member who did not handle it properly, I held up the receipts, the invoices from Gorman Butler for seven or eight months, eight -nine months, I think, and would not even sign one, would not even make out a cheque~ I held them up because I figured they were improper and that they were claiming for things that were illegal or improper and I held them up and when I left the town of St. George's they were paid. aR. FLIGHT: Now! :ms . ole ISAAC : I am not saying that it is the department's fault.

Yes, we have water, but we should have water throughout the town and it is because of the consultants that we do not have it and that is what is happening. And I think probably in incorporated areas that that is where the problem lies, the consultants have a free hand - l1R. 'i'EARY: ~IRS. ~lc ISAAC: liear, hear! - and they should be rapped on the knuckles and maybe the water line would stretch further down the road. :lr. Speaker. I think my time has expired. SOME KON. llEMBERS: Hear, hear! 569 Thank you,

Dacember 11, 1978 ~R. SPEAKER: (Mr. Young) Bonavista :<orth. SOHE HON. HEMEERS : :1R. CROSS: Tape :~o. 235 J:C - 2 The han. the member for Rear, hear! ~r. Speaker, like other govern~ent members who have spoken in this House on the Speech from the Throne, I would like to congratW£te the hon. member for Kilbride (Mr. Wells), who moved the Address in Reply and also the hon. the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan), who was the seconder, two good speakers, may I say, who waxed eloquent in both content and delivery. And altLough I have congratulated in person the hon. the member for ~askaupi (Mr.

Goudie) and the hon. the member for Mount Pearl (Mr. N. Windsor), let me,for the record, congratulate them again on their newest appointments to Cabinet. I wish them well. Knowing them, I feel quite sure that they will give it their best and do a good job. Mr. Speaker, before I "get into my few remarks on the Address in Reply, I want to speak about the positive aspects of the Speech from the Throne. For a moment I would like to digress. I listened to the programme, In the Public Eye on Friday past.

Certainly, the bon. the Leader of the Opposition was the guest on that programme, and during the course of the programme one question was asked him, and the question was, Should a P.C. Government be elected in 0ttawa in the election that will take p:ace next year, would it have any effect on the outcone of a provincial election? His answer was no. He did state that while we had a P.C. Government in Ottawa we had seven Liberal members fran Newfoundland, and he did say that we got as much from the P.C.s then and more than we had gotten before. But he also said that it would not make any difference if we had • P.C.

Government in Ottawa and 570

December 11, 1978 Tap e ~i o. 235 I!C - 3 :-:R. CROSS: a Liberal Government in ::a"foundland. I can only say, ~lr . Spea!<er, that this is not what the hon. the Leader of the O~position thou ght only a year ago, beca use for a moment I would like to quote t~o parag ra phs from a le tter that was circulated in the Twillingate district durin g the by - election in December of 1977. And this is what the two paragraphs say· "During the next year or two most of the govern~:~ent money to be spent in this dis trict, Twilling ate, will be money from t he federal Liberal Governm e nt in Ottawa." SOME RON .

MEMBERS: Rear, hear! :·rR. caoss: An d the second p aragraph, and I quote: " It i s important ," and the 'important' is in bold type, "that you hav e a Liberal provincial mecber," and that is in bold type, blacker t ype, "who can work wi t h you r Liberal federal member to make sure that Twillingate district receives even more money to ~eet the many needs of the distric t." SO~E H09 . HE~BElS : P.ea r, hear! :!R. CROSS: !ly readin 3 that and listen ina to the hon. the Leader of the Opposi t ion on Friday ni~ht past, I think I can say that 571

Deca~ber ll, 1978 Tape :~a.. Z36 C\·:- 1 :~ .. c::.oss: that sho":!S, .::.ncl the "'"or<.1 :1as been u,;eC: i:l ::::is House before, tl> . .J.t the hon. leader -.._rcts speaking 'iitl: a forked tCIIlgue. Ona }·ears :1e says ona tiling bec:!:..:se it is politically a::p;:,c'.ient to Jo so t"!len t~e next year he Hill say t!1e ex::~ct opposite, t:.ere is no e01loiatency. • ':'.. SPE.:'.KER: Order please~ The e:h.1'ression forked to!lgue :1as come u='• I think in ord:.....Lary parlar..ce this is cot:si.iereC to ir.lpart an :!..npression of hypocrisy or th<J.t t}1'e of cor.~1otation.

I •.rould =.sk the :1on. me!!l.ber if he •.;ould ''it~cra'v that ?articular tar.:1. "':'... cr..oss: I ,. .. rill ~·:1.. t!1draw, !!r.. Speaker, but I trill say i;:J. w.y opinion there is ineeasiatency in •.;rhat the llon. member say~, in. my opi::1ion or it ;;.;ems that way. I am not certairrly saying a."l.ythi."l.g ?.::1.y ~arsher, ·~r. Speaker, than i1as ~ee.n said befora. I thin:~, ~~r. Spcal.:er, I have to say this now <md perhaps I uill ;:;et a little bit more harsi, than I intended to but neverti1eless t~:a 0;>position reni::.ds !'12 of "!. little story I •rill relate.

Back w:hm I ,.1as a boy in school there '·tas an old ::;entlel!'.an in •:alley Field •·•ho al~va;•s li!~ ed to tinker vith t!lings and try to invent somet! 1:!.ng antl l:e tho-;1ght he invented the tele'STaph systEm. He lined up a lot ef tin c:a11.e, milk car.s, sou" cans and fishi:J.8 line anc so on ~nd so fort:1 and l:::;f;a:~ ::o te:;> out ~.;ith a little instru.'!lent and ~1e said: "I _::ave [Ot a ~n.rcless =1.p72.ratus." He. said: "I can se.:td :.·ut ! can not rec.ei .. .re." P.ncl I :.e!.ic..ve the 11p?ositioZ2 is somet~i:1g li1-::.e that, t:.:.e:r can se::cl :.ut t:1ey ~~on. mc:l~er fr"JM St.

John's T.\est (Dr. I~itchen), ~T:1...an ·1~ ~~-::>~:e i:: t:1e addr~ss to t~e )re~ch from the T:1~o~~, .st:!.ted :!..Z! .:1:.:s ~ddress tb.~t t:.!c. S;8ech !=-or:l t:1:= T::r0n~ ":.eel li t~le to do -:ri t:t t=:e p':!C'I!"'le of ~;~~vfou~cl.- ~T1-~~c~ f:.-o!l'!. the T"-lror.e s.:!ys no t~1ir~ g n.bout U!lenpJ o~-~nt, But does it say '"!v.:tte r~ ~i~ ~'!)out une~lfJ;l!!'.~~. Tr.e ~~P. -~c.h frol'!. t'1e Thron~ ~ccs spcal-: 5?2

C-· ' - - C'2.')SS: ~~ a~~culcure, i: ~oes ?Ut £or~ ~ooe of o~= ~olicics on :c~risc t.. ~!c~~:!t i:l ocr !'!':lvicc~ and natu rally :ta.v.:a c ..!~crease i:t t~e u:.::- j·ears aso ""Y government ac::ept:!c c~e c!ls.lla.,;;e of :,u:1.1c:i:lg ic t~is i'ro v<..nca a sound ecooocy ~-ri.t!lin an ~qc.i :able soC::.al fai.r:!.c . :ij 573

~~ce~~r 11, 1973 Tape 237 Gi-l ::r;.. G. CROSS: over twice the figure of $~453 for 1972. It is only the cost of liviu~. !~. G. CROSS; It Gays, 'Retail trade figures s:.tolf tl:at our people at tJJ.is C:hristuas season i1ave more spending ?Oiier tl.lan ever before. Our children !1ave better clotne:>. Our youth :1ave better :=ducational opportunities. Thare are more refrigerators per capita, more telephones per capita and more washing ::tachinas and more automobiles.' Ti:oere, Nr. SJ?eaker, there the i1on. member from Terra ;.java (Hr. T. Lush) ceased.

Certainly, maybe enougl1 :1as not :1ai?i'enecl in til<! last six years, but certainly t~1ese facts t.1at are statea there do denote progress and mayiJe alt!1ou:;h we are not satisfied, ci1e facts are there to be read and are there for all to see ti1et ;:roo,ress i1as ileer. :ua.de. But, Er. Speaker, for the time at rzy dis~osal, t~:e till:e remainine nov.-, I would like to talk a bit about to~e district of Jonavista dorth and as I do to finish paragrap:1 four on page one.

If one would listen and give heed to Jpposition memilers, you -;,-auld be led to think tllat nothinJ; ;ositive nas i1appened in t;1e last s:iY. years, t11at all our <iollars have been Hasted. They · tell us over and aver again t1'lat no jobs l1ave lleen created. They tell us over and aver again that no resource develoi>­ mant has taken place. They tell us that no roads :1ave been ~uilt, up5racled anci paved, ~o water anli setver facilities ~)rovide.ci and so 0:1. ,.;.,11 certainly, ;?age an<: of t:1e s,eec,l :Erma ~.e T:.rone refer» to i~,~rove.~n.ta that :1ave come about duriug tl"'le r:ast six year.>.

The w·ords say v;e i.1av.a raore riles of ?av~cl roaUs in .. "~tet-;foUllJlanC: toc.la)' than t;e clid si:;-; years at:.o. !hat is the tru~~ a...""ld there ~J.~Ve 'ueen as ::•a.r".J' Zllles of roads upt,raded an~ ~avec!. in that six years ccl.;J.I:"araiJl~.! ·t.:l OJJ.Y six-year jJtoriotl oefore i01. t:le uistory of .• ew£ou!l<.Lla~1.ci.. I \.;ill not ~ay t:-w~ ent;~-thre-a, 0ut I ;;ill say tak.e six years of t~ .. e la~t aC:.~inistration and tak~ sU years of this acl~ini::itration ~aved. :1ave e:"ceecieci. any six-year tJeriod of tHe .. 'aGt adui..'1ist=a~io2. 574

J.:ce!:l.i:.er ll, b75 Tape 237 Gli-2 ~a, 'lie !1ava mere iJaveC:: roads in :le~.;founcl- l=C., out I can say w-e clave tlore paved roads in .Bonavista :\ort:1. Certainly I am j!roud to relate that the Loop ~;oad has been completecl. G.artainly J.lonavista :;orth i1as not ·oeen left out of the picture. l~. ;:;,-.;al~er, <U> late as 1574 there were 110 Lii.les of o:i1e ~ouavi.>ta jortil. Loop Road uupavec. .\.t 5:20 J? .m. au Octouer 23 the la3t truci:loed of a.:>:,>ualt wao Sl?read. on tne Loop Road; the ._Jotiloles, tile dust, the narrc-.; wiilding roads and blind l"lills are no tlore.

I may say that SO l?er cent of the distu.nce of the roaci that ;,as "Jee<l comFleted is a new road. The old winding road that w-as built by the former Liberal adlllinistration is no more. The distance from Indian Ilay to Valleyfield. by U1e old road Yas 25 miles; the distance by t;1e new one is only 13 Uliles - 12 miles saved, and dollars saved because of the r.ri.les ti•at t,;ere cut off, ~:r. Speaker. Oh yes, I ~•ill give credit where credit is ciue.

Our goverm::ent will t,ive credit '"here credit is due :,ecause on page two of the Sj,>eec..'l from the Throne there is a little .,ara;;rap~l c:1ere t:Lat reads this; ":·.y Government >;ishes to acknmvledge ti:.e ~portant role. of tr1e Gove=ment of Canada as partners ,.;ith us in social and economic development. \.ie particularly refer to t:1e manner in -r,...·i1.icil the D~po.rt!!!e:t:.t c.f Re_sional Economic Ex;-ansion has -oeen responding to provincial priol"itl~s." :>a h.ore, l:r.

Speal,er, I >iill, thiO Gover:uuant will give credit to r::r-EE, to tlle Goverm.,ent of Cana<la for ..-hat tt.e:i are do:!n~:., 'uut certainly we deserve in ~.;ewfoundland Liberal dollars from Ottawa; we deserve their dollars; ',;:o ::curse, •e do. 575

December 11, 1978 Tape 238 IB-1 MR. CROSS: We pay our taxes. We cnly get what we pay in,in fact, if we see it that way. That is the direct part of it. My remarks are these, Mr. Speaker, that directly we get from Ottawa, directly we give to Ottawa~ indirectly we take back~and~indirectly also-and what the people do not know-is that we give far more than we realize we are giving. Mr. Speaker, in 1975 not one single community in the district of Bonavista North had any municipal roads paved. To date paving has been completed in three communities and work is ongoing in six more. Mr.

Speaker, before I have to give an account of my stewardship municipal paving will have been completed in nine out of the eighteen communities in Bonavista North. All the branch roads but one have been upgraded and I live in hopes that these left unpaved will be completed in another working season. Mr. Speaker, the Speech from the Throne speaks of more houses with indoor plumbing. Again we have water and sewer projects ongoing in three communities, namely,Middle Brook, Dover and Trinity, and a water system for Greenspond is progressing- more indoor toilet facilities in the district of Bonavista North.

And I would like to think~and I know for sure,that Bonavista North is not the only district where water and sewer facilities are being given by this administration. The Speech from the Throne speaks of better hospitals. A new clinic and waiting room has been constructed at Brookfield Hospital and renovations have been made on the hospital to improve services and give better health care to the people. At present a new two-apartment doctor's residence is under construction. Again, Mr. Speaker, that is great progress. Mr. Speaker, we talk of the better schools.

Better schools are being built in Newfoundland, better schools are being built in Bonavista North. Again,all the new schools are not being built in Bonavista North. Only a couple of weeks ago,to be exact Friday, November 24,a new elementary school, Bay View Heights Academy was formally opened in Middle Brook. Two week prior to the opening of that school classes began in a new elementary school in Dover. Let me say, Mr. 576

December 11, 1978 Tape 238 IB-2 MR. CROSS: Speaker, that a new all grade school for Greenspond that has been given the name Heritage Academy - what a nice name! - picked by the people of Greenspond, that name, because Greenspond does have a great historic tradition and a great heritage and that school is nearing completion. We will have three new schools formally opened in one year. Progress, Mr. Speaker, great progress! Then we go on to more homes with electricity.

This is not because electricity came to all of the district of Bonavista North since the P.C. administration took over,no, but certainly there have been many new homes built in the last six years. This past Summer alone - this gives us an example of how the economy of rural Newfoundland is growing, growing because we have a positive fisheries programme - the coastal communities of Newfoundland, the fishing communities in the fishing districts of Newfoundland are moving ahead by leaps and bounds. This past Summer fourteen new homes constructed.

Four new mobile homes purchased in one, just one municipality-or one rural district. Eighteen homes in the rural district of Badger's Quay-Valley~ield-Pool's Island,where I happen to live. It is because there is a vibrant economy in Bonavista North and in the district that this is taking place. 5~

December 11. 1978 Tape 239 IB-1 MR. CROSS: It did not happen ten years ago, Mr. Speaker. I would say they would have taken eight or ten years for eighteen or twenty homes to be built in one single municipality. But this year,like I said, eighteen. And listen to this, Mr. Speaker, twelve or fifteen more requests . to council for building lots that they cannot come up with yet. AN"HON; MEMBER: Where is that? MR. CROSS: Badger's Quay-Valleyfield-Pool's Island.

So again, progress brought about because we do have a programme for the fisheries that is making not only that municipality viable as far as economics is concerned but many other communities in Bonavista North as well. The future is good, Mr. Speaker. You can travel the old north shore of Bonavista Bay and in every community you see new homes being built, old homes being renovated. That is a sign of the progressive times in rural Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. This is why I quote some of the things that have happened in my district. It is a rural district and rural Newfoundland today is alive and vibrant.

I might add, Mr. Speaker. that during the Summer I did a little travelling. I did not go outside of Newfoundland. I did not go to Mainland Canada. I did not go to Europe or Florida or anywhere like that. I stayed at home, not at home in Bonavista North but at home in Newfoundland and I did visit the district of Twillingate. My father-in-law and I covered every inch of Twillingate Island this Summer. I visited some of the friends that I made in Bluff Head Cove and Ragged Point a year ago.

I can also say that I have visited the district of Lewisporte, the district of Exploits , the district of Green Bay, the district of Fogo and in all of these districts there was a look of prosperity and an air of optimism and vibrancy, Mr. Speaker, and they are all rural districts moving ahead because we do have a policy and a plan, Mr. Speaker, to develop the resource materials that we have. New senior citizens homes talked about in the Speech from the Throne. A new senior citizens home has been approved for the district of Bonavista North to replace the old three story structure presently in 578

December 11, 1978 Tape 239 IB-2 MR. CROSS: operation. Mr. Speaker, the Speech from the Throne stresses the fact that the government believes that the resources of the sea will be the mainstay of our economy. The government does put forth its plan for further development of the fishery. The fishery has been and will be the most important single industry in our Province. AN HON. MEMBER: Go fishing. MR. CROSS: Because of that fact we can never have - I can go fishing, Mr. Speaker, I heard that remark. Fishing is not new to me.

I spent seven or eight years of my life in a fishing boat when things were not so good as they are now~ut I am not ashamed, Mr. Speaker, that I was a fisherman and I would not be ashamed if I had to go back to the fishing boat and I think I could make a very good living there. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CROSS: Certainly because the fishery is the single most important industry in this Province,because of that fact, Mr. Speaker, we can never have a Throne Speech or ? Budget Speech that does not place a major emphasis on the fisheries, that does not take up pages of any Speech from the Throne.

The fishing industry is important to the district of Bonavista North as it is important to many of the rural coastal communities of our Province. Mr. Speaker, what has happened and is continuing to happen in the district of Bonavista North is indicative of what is happening in many fishing district of our Province. Let me tell this to this hon. House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, let me talk of some of the improvements that have taken place in the fishery as proof positive to my former general statements that I made.

Last year in Valleyfield, Beothuck Fish Processsors installed a second cutting line and also purchased a cod filleting and flounder filleting machine. Presently a new building is under construction there which will provide a cold storage place for an extra 3 million pounds of fish with space provided to install three