May 2, 2007 RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Wallace Young, MHA for St.

Barbe, replaces Charlene Johnson, MHA for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

The Committee met at 5:15 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

MR. CHAIR (Mr. Harding): Order, please!

I would like to welcome everyone here this evening.

First of all, I will ask the Committee members to introduce themselves.

MR. JOYCE: Eddie Joyce, MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. BAKER: Jim Baker, MHA for Labrador West.

MR. HUNTER: Ray Hunter, MHA for Windsor-Springdale.

MR. YOUNG: Wally Young, MHA for St. Barbe, sitting in for Charlene

Johnson.

CHAIR: Harry Harding, MHA for Bonavista North.

I will ask the minister now to introduce his officials.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will start with my deputy minister and ask them all to identify themselves

and, of course, to check out their mikes.

MR. NORRIS: Gary Norris, Deputy Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation.

MR. MEADE: Brent Meade, Assistant Deputy Minister, Culture and

Recreation.

MR. CROCKER: Gerry Crocker, Director of Finance and General Operations.

MR. TOMPKINS: John Tompkins, Director of Communications.

MS MURPHY: Carmela Murphy, Director of Tourism Marketing.

MS KEEL-RYAN: Juanita Keel-Ryan, Director of Tourism Product Development.

MR. RYAN: Brian Ryan, Executive Assistant to the Minister.

CHAIR: Thank you very much.

After I ask the Clerk to call the first subhead then the minister may begin,

and he may have up to fifteen minutes to give an overview of his department's

Estimates for the 2007-2008 year.

I guess we are all ready, and I ask the Clerk now to call the subhead.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Shall subhead 1.1.01. carry?

Minister Hedderson.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you again, Mr. Chair.

A welcome to my colleagues from the House of Assembly, my officials.

Just to begin - I will be as short as I possibly can - the Department of

Tourism, Culture and Recreation has, certainly as the name implies, three

pillars, three lines of business. I will start first of all with Tourism.

Our tourism industry is doing relatively well in the marketplace. While other

provinces, especially the Atlantic Provinces, have been experiencing declines,

we have experienced overall increases. I would like to provide just a snapshot

of our performance over the last year and indicate with statistics how we have

had some great successes.

Non-resident visitors are up to 494,400; that represents an increase of

approximately 5 per cent over the previous year. With regard to related revenues

to these non-resident visitors, it is $365 million. Again, that is an increase

of 8 per cent over the 2005 levels.

Over the same period, the convention market, Destination St. John's reports

there was a 9 per cent increase in the number of conventions and an increase of

13 per cent with regard to delegates. Cruise Newfoundland & Labrador, there

were 105 port calls for the 2006 season, an increase of eight port calls over

the 2005, and passenger visitors were down approximately 5 per cent.

To capitalize and maintain this growth, we are implementing a product

development strategy. We have launched a brand new Web site, and we are in the

process of developing a new tourism plan. The tourism plan and the vision is

being developed certainly in consultation with the industry. This industry is

vibrant, it is enthusiastic, and certainly moving forward.

You will note that there has been an increase of $1 million for our marketing

in Budget 2007-2008, essential to the department expanding its marketing

campaigns and driving further visitation to the Province.

Culture, our second pillar, a very busy first year in implementing the

cultural plan. We have strengthened our support for the Arts Council, enabling

them to increase grants and introduce new programs. We have established the

status of the artists working group which will address the socioeconomic status

of professional artists and investigate measures to improve their economic

status and security by bringing more stability and benefits to their working

conditions.

The department's Cultural Economic Development Program continues to further

strengthen the cultural industries of the Province. The Publishers' Assistance

Program rolled out this year, providing $200,000 to the publishing industry. We

have worked diligently with our Atlantic and provincial colleagues on export

development strategy, and my own department has reorganized so that we have the

expertise available to the arts community.

The key objective of the cultural plan was to preserve, protect and promote

our rich heritage resources. We are in the process of completing a heritage

system

interpretation plan, which will guide how my department supports and

develops

interpretation throughout the Province.

We have completed a building structure report for the Colonial Building,

which clearly lays out a plan for restoration of one of our most significant,

historic sites. We have, as well, an

interpretation plan developed to guide how

to tell the very rich, political history of this place.

Now, as we move into year two, my department, in conjunction with the arts

and heritage community, have identified some key directions. Examples, we are

working with the Arts Council on a strategy to increase private sector support

for the arts. We are doing an analysis of the potential for new media, a

multi-million dollar business in many provinces. I hope to introduce new

programs and services in this emerging sector within the next year. We will work

with the heritage community to implement an intangible heritage strategy and the

revitalization of our provincial historic sites and regional museums, of course,

will continue.

Our third pillar, Recreation - it is recreation and sport, I might add.

Whereas the two other pillars have very well-developed strategies and investment

frameworks, it is a priority I saw, as minister in this department, as well as

an opportunity to lead a process of addressing this third pillar, recreation and

sport. I know I do not need to expound upon the reasons why we need to do it, as

the statistics related to obesity and inactivity, et cetera, speak for

themselves.

The Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, working closely with an

advisory committee of sector stakeholders have developed a comprehensive, well

supported provincial Recreation and Sport Strategy. It charts a new direction to

make Newfoundlanders and Labradorians more active, thereby benefitting more

fully from the social interaction that comes from recreation. It also involves

implementing policies, strategies and action plans which will enable more

citizens of the Province to reach the highest levels of excellence in their

sporting endeavours or in the field of recreation.

The strategy and action plan outline will be largely carried out through

greater cross coordination of key government departments and a new partnership

model and framework with key provincial sport and recreation organizations. By

adopting this strategy, government will ensure that its own operations related

to recreation and sport within the Departments of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation, Health, Education, and other relevant ministries and departments

will be better coordinated and more easily accessible to the public.

To accomplish these goals and objectives the department has included in the

Budget Estimates incremental funding to launch the strategy in the amount of

$2.39 million. This sound investment will lead to healthier, more active

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and of course we shall all reap the benefits.

In a nutshell, Mr. Chair, that is where we are coming from and some

indication of where we are going. Of course, I welcome any questions now from my

colleagues as we move through the estimates of my department.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, minister.

Before we start questioning, I have been asked to remind the officials that

if you are asked to response, would you identify yourself before, because it is

being recorded by Hansard. That is the only way they will pick up who is

speaking.

We will begin the questioning now.

Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, minister.

If you do not mind, I will go through some general questions first and then

we can go through the few line items that I went through (inaudible).

One of the concerns that has been brought to my attention out our way is - I

think it is under your department - the caribou licence out there, the lodges.

Is that under your - it is, yes.

One of the concerns that was expressed is that, of course, people last year

who were trying to promote their lodges this year, went out and sold the number

of caribou licences that they had last year, assuming they would have the same

amount. Then after they booked, say ten or twelve, what would happen then is

they would come out - then this year they cut the allowable number below what

they have already sold, and it is embarrassing and I guess it is kind of a

financial strain on them. Is there anyway around that or is there anyway to

cover that up for this year and give them the heads up for next year somehow?

MR. HEDDERSON: In response, what we are looking at, of course, is that

the caribou herds throughout the Island portion in particular are under great

stress. From Environment and Conservation we were given basically a significant

reduction for caribou, for conservation purposes. When we compared the numbers

to 2001, which was the start of that five year plan, you are talking about a 64

per cent reduction, so we looked at having to remove - I am just looking at the

deputy minister - upwards of 1,200 licences, I believe, from the non-resident -

MR. NORRIS: Yes, (inaudible).

MR. HEDDERSON: It went from 1,970 licences down to 828.

It wasn't an easy task, because we have close to 100 outfitters which have

varying numbers of caribou allocations to it. We had to do something right

across the board that was basically fair, so we came up with a way to take the

licences that were required to be taken out in fairness to all. If you need an

explanation of that - I am just jumping through it because I am trying to get

directly to your question.

We did the analysis, looked at the licences that were unsold, removed those,

and then went back to the numbers that they had and took a further one-third of

the licences, leaving them with two-thirds. Of course, that meant that there

were some gaps in what they had sold last year and this year.

I attended their convention after I had given out the numbers and made a

commitment to them on two fronts. One, we looked at the average of sold licences

for their outfitting operations over three years and took the average of what

they had sold and then did the analysis. When we did that, there were some new

operators that had come into the mix in the last year or so. They indicated

that, well, you are using quotas of the previous owners. They wanted us just to

look back a year and look at how many they had sold and we would have gotten a

different number. That was one of the areas, the new operators who came in. I

think there were six of them.

Also, the outfitters advised us that sometimes you sell caribou licences up

to two or three years, sometimes, prior to the season, so there were licences

that were already sold to non-residents in other parts of the country, or other

nations, so they asked us to look at that as well.

What we did is, we made a commitment to go back and see if we could tweak the

numbers to address the unsold licences. We did go back. We did look at what

their quota was. We did look at putting more caribou in to address it. They had

come forward with a request of something like 175. We were able to put back 112.

That is where it is right now, and they are looking at their numbers. Some

are okay; others are still (inaudible); but, again, we are working with them

individually to make sure that we are doing everything we can.

Again, as you would well understand, I say to the hon. member, it is about

conservation, and to go any deeper into the numbers would place, again, stress

upon the caribou herd that we feel is not feasible at this particular time.

MR. JOYCE: I think most of the people that I spoke to on it agree that

conservation is the key.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, they do.

MR. JOYCE: If there was some way to let them know - I don't know how to

do it, I am not the expert in it, but to let them know - before they go out, the

year prior, to sell the licences, the number of licences that they think they

would have for the upcoming year. That is where they are running into a problem.

For example, if they had ten this year, they assume they have ten again next

year. They go out and sell ten licences in December or January, and then come

March or April they find out then they only have seven or eight.

I don't know how to do it, but I was asked to express that concern. I am

not sure what the department can do because it is a difficult situation, there

is no doubt.

MR. HEDDERSON: On a go-forward basis, of course, the adjustments that we

have made to these unsold licences is a one-time only this year. We have advised

them that their numbers may not hold for next year because, again, we are

dependent on Environment and Conservation to provide us with the numbers, so we

have given the outfitters a heads-up in saying that.

Usually, with the counts and everything, we do not get that information until

November or December, so we have given them a heads-up that we realize that this

was a difficult year and, of course, we had anticipated something in the tune of

about 600-700 licences having to come out. We realize that these were the number

that were unsold - not that we were not concerned, but we thought that we could

cover off on the numbers that were required with the 650 - but, in November we

received word from Environment and Conservation that, after their counts

following the season, the number was greater - something more in the tune of

1,200.

We have advised them, with the moose, that the allocations of the moose that

we have given them, we are saying that is two years out. The moose is not in the

same predicament as the caribou, but with the caribou we have to tell them now

that they have to be very, very conservative in going forward now with any

unsold licences. We are hoping that, in working with the association in a

strategy - because that is what we are at now in looking at all aspects of the

outfitting industry - that we can come up with better ways in diversifying and

strengthening their ability to provide a product.

MR. JOYCE: One thing I was going to bring up through the Auditor General's

report was - Humber Valley got the Winter Games. I think in the Auditor General's

report, that we had meetings on, was that there was no application in from

Humber Valley. Can you explain how that happened?

MR. HEDDERSON: That was the Deer Lake Winter Games, just passed by?

MR. JOYCE: Yes.

MR. HEDDERSON: What the Auditor General is referring to was the awarding

of the Games back in - I am looking for a date. When were they awarded, 2003?

I am going to ask the deputy minister just to explain, because it was not

under - as a matter of fact, it was before my time. We responded to the AG, as

you saw, but what it was, it was awarded under the previous Administration and,

of course, I do not have a corporate memory of that so I am going to ask my

deputy minister if he would explain basically his understanding of what happened

at that time.

MR. NORRIS: Mr. Joyce, there were a number of jurisdictions looking for

those Games. Marystown was awarded the Summer Games at the time, and the Deer

Lake region, the Humber Valley region, were awarded the Winter Games.

There was a process in place where there was an evaluation done by officials

and there were set criteria that were: accommodations, other facilities, sports

facilities and the like, and officials in the department's rec area undertook

that evaluation and presented it to a committee of ministers. I think it was

three ministers at the time - Julie Bettney was the minister - and from that

evaluation it then went to Cabinet with a recommendation, so that final decision

rested with Cabinet.

MR. JOYCE: Was the Auditor General correct when he said there was no

application from the Humber Valley region? That there were two in and they were

rejected?

MR. NORRIS: They had applied for, I think they were looking for, the

Summer Games but Cabinet subsequently made the decision to award them the Winter

Games, and Marystown picked up the Summer Games.

MR. JOYCE: The Swilers rugby field, is that under the recreation

department that it is going to be built, or planning to be built?

MR. HEDDERSON: You are thinking about the provincial training centre?

MR. JOYCE: No. Isn't there a football or rugby field?

MR. HEDDERSON: No. The rugby field, as it stands, is a rugby field right

now. We have partnered with the City of St. John's, the federal government,

ourselves and the Swilers Club to build a facility adjacent to that rugby field.

Is it adjacent or -

WITNESS: Adjacent.

MR. HEDDERSON: Well, adjacent to it, and - of course, the details of that

I will put to my deputy minister or my assistant deputy minister with regard to

the dollars, if you want to go that deep.

MR. JOYCE: What I am just asking is: Where did the funds come from to do

that venture?

MR. HEDDERSON: I am going to ask my deputy minister just to run down

through the allocation of those funds.

MR. NORRIS: It is about a $7 million project, Mr. Joyce. The Province has

contributed about $2.5 million to $2.6 million. The federal government, to date,

is committed for $2 million. The City of St. John's is committed for $1.3

million. The Swilers Rugby Club are raising money to the tune of about $1

million-plus.

There are two facilities. As you mentioned, the Swilers Rugby Club exists now

on the site that is owned by the Swilers group, and attached to the back of that

is the field. So they will retain ownership of that. There is going to be an

attachment to that facility, that will be some meeting rooms. There will also be

a strength and conditioning facility, and that is worth about $1.3 million. Then

there is going to be a building adjacent to that extension to the Swilers

Complex, that will house - it will be a big gym. In essence, a big gym that will

hold probably six basketball courts and it will be multi-purpose. It will be a

hardwood floor. I am being told that it is probably the largest hardwood floor

facility east of Montreal.

MR. JOYCE: Where is the funding coming from? Is there any cost-shared

provincial-federal agreement on that?

MR. NORRIS: Yes -

MR. JOYCE: What is the name of that fund?

MR. NORRIS: The money is coming from the MRIF program, and that is where

the federal contribution of $2 million is coming from.

MR. JOYCE: MRIF?

MR. NORRIS: Right. The expected completion date on that project, both

projects now are in construction and it should be completed in November or

December of 2007.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. Thank you.

Minister, I will just go through a few items now. Under 1.2.01, Salaries was

over last year by approximately $60,000. Was that because of ordinary increases

or was it new hiring?

MR. HEDDERSON: Two things there. Of course, you are familiar with one of

my retired ADMs, Vic Janes. Vic retired and it was something in the tune of

close to $50,000 in severance benefits which would be included there. As well,

salaries, that 3 per cent increase that came down the tubes, that is about

$8,000. So that would account for the variance there.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. Thank you.

Under 1.2.02, Employee Benefits were a bit less than indicated last year. Is

there a reason for that? It is about $50,000, actually.

MR. HEDDERSON: I am going to ask the deputy minister. It had something to

do with the workers' compensation, I think.

MR. NORRIS: Yes, that is under Employee Benefits, 1.2.02, Administrative

Support. The revised variance of about $27,000 is a result of reduction in the

injury on duty billing from the Workers' Health and Safety Commission.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

Under 1.2.04, Planning, Policy and Research. Last year Professional Services

went over by $43,000. Can you explain to me what that was for when they went

over in Professional Services of about $43,000 last year?

MR. HEDDERSON: I do not see that.

MR. JOYCE: Under 1.2.03, Planning, Policy and Research.

MR. HEDDERSON: It is 1.2.04.

MR. JOYCE: Sorry.

WITNESS: I do not see Professional Services.

MR. HEDDERSON: What line is it? Just go through the line again.

MR. JOYCE: It is Planning, Policy and Research, Professional Services.

MR. HEDDERSON: Was it $15,000?

MR. JOYCE: I think it was $43,000, unless I have it wrong.

MR. HEDDERSON: That is under Purchased Services, is it?

MR. JOYCE: We can skip that. It is Planning, Policy and Research, 1.2.03.

MR. NORRIS: Are you okay with that one?

MR. JOYCE: Yes. Subhead 1.2.04.

MR. NORRIS: Subhead 1.2.04.

CHAIR: That is Planning, Policy and Research, 1.2.04.

MR. JOYCE: Yes.

Administrative Support, 1.2.05.

MR. HEDDERSON: Subhead 1.2.05.

MR. JOYCE: There is approximately $800,000 added to this year's Budget.

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay. Under Purchased Services, is that the one you are

looking at?

MR. JOYCE: Yes.

MR. HEDDERSON: Gary, you take that one.

MR. NORRIS: Under Purchased Services, last year in 2006-2007 there was

$800,000. Mr. Joyce, that was earmarked for a complete, I guess, overall of the

Port aux Basques Visitor Information Centre. Unfortunately, because of the

amount of work that is out there in the private sector in terms of architectural

work, design work, we could not engage a consultant to actually do the work we

needed to have done. So, subsequently, that money now has lapsed and has been

placed in the 2007-2008 Budget.

You see there $1.525 million, and that will cover the cost of the Port aux

Basques retrofit, of which a contract has been let. Also, the remaining balance,

which will be $700,000 or $800,000, is to retrofit, rebuild the Whitbourne VIC.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

There was $225,000 for Property, Furnishings and Equipment last year and it

looks like very little was spent of it.

MR. NORRIS: Yes, there is $200,000 there for Property, Furnishings and

Equipment in last year's Budget. That relates to the acquisition of property,

lands in Cupids, and that money was not spent last year. Again, that money has

now been placed in the 2007-2008 fiscal period for the acquisition of those

lands.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

In Tourism, 2.1.01., in the Purchased Services part of it, the Estimates were

about $9 million last year, and this year it has gone up to about $10,467,000.

What is the increase?

MR. NORRIS: You are right; last year in the Budget, under Purchased

Services, there was about $9.5 million. The Revised was $9.1 million. I would

just note that $400,000 of that was actually transferred into Professional

Services, just a line above, to develop a Web site - almost $500,000, actually -

and this year the government increased the marketing budget by another $1

million to give us around $11 million. Eight hundred and seventy thousand of

that million is actually going to go into tourism marketing. The other $130,000

was placed up in the Salaries. You will see that the Salaries vote has also

increased, and that money is to fund two new positions in the department: one to

deal with our Web site, and the other position is really a tourism marketing

type individual.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

In 2.1.02., Strategic Product Development, in my understanding there was no

money there for Purchased Services but there was a fair number spent -

Professional Services, sorry. It has gone up by about $12,000.

MR. NORRIS: That is under Professional Services?

MR. JOYCE: Yes.

MR. NORRIS: Last year there was $100,000 earmarked and, of that $100,000,

about $60,000 was spent on an outfitters strategy, and it is really a two-year

piece of business. There was another $30,000 that was spent for a winter tourism

strategy, so that is about $90,000 to $100,000. Then, this year, there is

$100,000 earmarked as well, and part of that is going to be to finish off the

winter tourism strategy which was only partially completed last year, and there

will be some funds earmarked to undertake a signage review strategy in terms of

promotional signage and highway signage.

MR. JOYCE: In Culture and Heritage there is about a $2 million increase

in Grants and Subsidies this year. Instead of going through each one, is there

any way to get a copy of what is given out?

Minister, there is a note here that we did. There are a lot of fees involved

with your department, so, instead of going through each one -

MR. NORRIS: We will provide them.

MR. JOYCE: - you can just fill it out for me some time and send it back

to me, so we would save a lot of time instead of having to go through each one.

MR. NORRIS: We will certainly take care of that for you.

MR. JOYCE: In Arts and Culture Centres, Purchased Services was up by

close to $1.5 million. Is that for renovations, doing work around...?

MR. MEADE: Purchased Services under Arts and Culture Centres, of the $1.9

million that was budgeted last year, approximately $1.2 million of that was for

capital upgrades, infrastructure upgrades, at the Arts and Culture Centres. The

remainder, the $700,000, would be for things like programming, advertising, and

things like that. The Revised was $1,674,000. There was approximately $330,000

in capital that was not completed and is now reflected in this year's budget.

MR. JOYCE: Minister, with the Arts and Culture Centres, before I go to

the next part of it, I would like to thank you and your staff for the ALS Gala

that we had in Corner Brook. I know your department was involved with it, and it

went off well. They made a lot of money at it, plus it was a great awareness. I

know I dealt with the staff in Corner Brook and you, Minister, so thanks a lot.

It was a great success. You helped out a lot.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you.

MR. JOYCE: Last year, in Arts and Culture Centres, the Salaries were

about $400,000 over budget. Was it about $400,000?

MR. MEADE: It went from $1,957,000 to about $2,016,000.

MR. JOYCE: About $1.5 million this year, yes.

MR. MEADE: Mr. Joyce, you may be looking at earlier numbers. The fact is,

in previous budgets we were budgeting approximately$1.5 million to $1.6 million

in Salaries and we were then, during the year, particularly near the end of the

year, moving money from Purchased Services into Salaries.

What we have done in last year's budget and in this year's budget is

restated the budget to more properly reflect the salary expenditures at the

Centres.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

MR. MEADE: The salary expenditures at the Centres is approximately $2

million.

MR. JOYCE: Historic Sites Development, is there a list of what sites will

be developed in the area? Is there any way to get a copy of that? Can we save

time?

MR. MEADE: Certainly, we can provide you a list with the plan. We can

certainly provide you with those planned upgrades this year. It includes two

things. It includes physical upgrades at the sites and it also includes new

interpretation at the sites.

MR. JOYCE: It would be no problem getting that?

MR. MEADE: No problem at all.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you.

Under Recreation - Operations, there was about a $1.5 million to Grants and

Subsidies. Is there any way to get a breakdown on that also? Is that possible?

Plus, how can a member get their hands on some of it?

MR. HEDDERSON: Smile, and be kind to me in Question Period.

MR. JOYCE: Well, I guess I will get zero.

So it would be no problem to get a list of where it is being spent and how it

is being spent?

MR. HEDDERSON: No.

MR. JOYCE: Minister, I don't know if it was last year I brought it up,

or the year before with the former minister, that $2,000 a year grant that each

MHA gets. Has that increased this year?

MR. HEDDERSON: I will give you a wink and a nod.

MR. JOYCE: Because it is a great program. It is great for a lot of

smaller rural towns. (Inaudible) for a number of years. It is a great little

boost, and sometimes it is good for the capital side, what they need just to

push them over.

MR. HEDDERSON: In response to that, with our rec strategy coming out -

and obviously you know we have put an amount in there of $2.39 million - we are

just getting all of the details worked out, and part of that would be the

announcement and release of some of the programs.

Let me say to you that we certainly listened to you over the last two years,

and I think you will see that reflected when we do make that announcement.

MR. JOYCE: Perfect.

In the Labrador operations, I am not sure if I have that correct. Is there

$11,000 - is there a person in Labrador, in your Labrador operations, for -

MR. HEDDERSON: I will turn that over to my deputy minister.

MR. NORRIS: Yes, there is a continued Labrador presence of the department

in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and in Lab West as well. We did have a regional

director in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. That position was declared redundant six or

eight months ago.

What we did, Mr. Joyce, was, we basically brought the Labrador Region in line

with what we have done throughout the rest of the Province - on the Island, that

is. There were regional directors with the department a number of years back.

That position was declared redundant. There is still a staff person in Happy

Valley-Goose Bay on the rec side and we have people, as well, on the product

development side in Lab West.

Our intention, and as a result of that position being declared redundant,

what we have done is have our two directors, two people sitting behind me, the

Director of Strategic Product Development and our Director of Marketing, there

is a direct relationship with the stakeholders in the area. We have Destination

Labrador, which are trying to develop a marketing plan for Labrador. Our

department is contributing $300,000 over three years towards that plan, and the

federal government are contributing about $1 million over three years. Our

people are working directly with them to try to really place Labrador on the map

as a destination.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

So that figure is actually kind of misleading somehow; it is almost like

there is $11,000 in the Labrador operations. There is a lot more -

MR. NORRIS: I am looking for that figure that you are referring to.

MR. HEDDERSON: What line item is that?

MR. JOYCE: I think it is 5.1.01.

MR. NORRIS: Mr. Joyce, the Labrador operations, the funding from last

year on that activity, 5.1.01., has been restated under Recreation - Operations

and also under Strategic Product Development.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

I will ask again - I think I asked the last couple of years - the exhibition

centre in Corner Brook, is that dead? I brought it up under the former minister

and it was a topic back probably in 2003.

MR. NORRIS: I look to the ADM on this as well.

That issue has not been resurrected in terms of a discussion. I know that the

department certainly has invested money into the new museum in the region, and I

am not sure but it is somewhere in the $200,000 or $300,000 range. There will

probably be further investment, I expect, down the road.

No, the exhibition centre is not being contemplated at this point in time.

The Rooms are really trying to have an outreach program in terms of bringing

exhibits around the Province.

That is about all I can say on that matter right now.

MR. JOYCE: The reason why is that back in 2003-2004 before the provincial

election was kind of an issue, there was a commitment made in Corner Brook by

the then Member for Humber East in his brochure that it was going to be done.

There was $300,000 worth of water and sewer done. I think we discussed it

because there was supposed to be a federal-provincial agreement at the time.

What happened, there was supposed to be a completion of the Exhibition

Centre. It is a paved parking lot - not even paved, it is a gravel parking lot

at the college now. With the Fine Arts program in Corner Brook, it is one thing

they wanted and it was never, ever - I know the first year was because they said

the federal government did not sign on to the agreement, the next year it was

going to be done anyway, then the next year it was cancelled. You hear of all

the money for The Rooms - it is a great program. It is great for our local - but

there is nothing in Corner Brook for the Fine Arts and the people on the West

Coast to show off their stuff. So, that is not on the radar screen right now, is

it?

MR. HEDDERSON: It is not on our radar screen in the sense that nothing

has come to my department except that, obviously, with the Arts and Culture

Centre, that is our responsibility, and now we are moving forward with the

museum. Other than that, I would have to say to the member that, no, I am not

aware of anything.

MR. JOYCE: Yes, and it was before your time (inaudible) when Mr. Shelley

was here?

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, I would rather not go there in the sense that -

because I am not aware of anything.

MR. JOYCE: Okay, because there is going to be another issue. Just for the

department - and I know you are putting money into the museum in Corner Brook.

Concerns were expressed to me - as you know, the building itself is owned by the

City of Corner Brook. Is it wheelchair accessible? This was one of my concerns.

MR. HEDDERSON: We were out there and went through the building. I know

there are a couple of levels. I thought there were lifts there, but I am not

sure.

MR. JOYCE: This is my concern - and I did not make an issue in Corner

Brook because I was going to wait here - is that we are investing into the

museum in Corner Brook and the upper level, you cannot get to it, you have to go

up the stairs. The City of Corner Brook actually owns the building, so the

investment is going in. It is going into the Corner Brook museum, which is good.

It is too bad you did not build the Exhibition Centre, but that is fine. You are

putting it into the museum, but there are a lot of people who cannot get up to

the second level. If you ever went up there - some seniors can't because there

are a lot of high, steep stairs to get up to the second level. I do not know

what the department can do because you are investing all this money. It says

here about $225,000 over two years. It is a lot of money, but there are a lot of

people who cannot avail of it. So, I will just bring that to your attention. I

do not know what can be done.

MR. HEDDERSON: It is a good point that you brought up and, obviously,

when we engaged it was for looking at the HVAC system and so on and so forth,

and building and moving along. I am not sure if we are at that point of

MR. JOYCE: Don't feel too bad, the former, former Mayor of Corner

Brook, Ray Pollett, had an aneurysm in his leg and he could not go to city

council meetings because his council chambers were not wheelchair accessible.

This was an old building, the old Telecom building or something in Corner Brook.

So, it is an issue that, if you are going to keep on investing, you should

look for some way for the capital costs to put an elevator in or a lift somehow.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes. Again, when you are renovating buildings and that - I

again, I am not sure. I think I am going to be my officials to follow up on it.

MR. JOYCE: The code is, if you do 50 per cent of the cost evaluation of

the building, but I would not say this is more as renovations, it would be more

of an upgrade to exhibition centres.

Last year, I think they bought a new furnace because of the cold climate. It

is not the actual construction of the building that this money is going into.

So, I am not sure if it would fall under the construction code where you have to

upgrade it to wheelchair accessible. I am pretty sure of it, but that is just a

concern that was raised and -

MR. HEDDERSON: Good point. Again, we will follow up and see what the

story is there.

MR. JOYCE: My last point. I see there is money there for certain parks in

the area. I am assuming that is under your department also. Cheeseman Park -

MR. HEDDERSON: No, I will stop you there. Parks are not under - it is

under Environment and Conservation.

MR. JOYCE: Yes, and I asked the minister last night and there are some

upgrades coming to it for the area.

Are there any funds - I mentioned it to the minister and I mentioned that I

was going to bring it up today. Are there any funds for trails outside the park

area? I spoke to the minister last night and out in Blow Me Down, out in Lark

Harbour, it is a tremendous area. They are going to upgrade next year, do some

work with electrical. This year they are going to do some work with the trails

inside the park, but outside that whole area there is a tremendous tourism

potential.

I know, minister, I passed along a letter to you and if there was some way

that I could mention these tourism groups. If there is any money or any avenue

to avail of some money, just capital money, they will do all the volunteer work.

MR. HEDDERSON: There is some opportunity. Obviously, we are looking at

sport and recreation, wellness, trails that lend themselves to walking and so

on, so it would have to fit the criteria that we would be looking at. Now,

again, some do and some do not. We would take it under advisement, so we would

ask the application to come in.

I am going to ask our ADM here just to jump in and give some indication of

the criteria and what perhaps could be done.

MR. MEADE: We have supported trail development in the past. It is again,

mobilizing people to get out walking and whatnot. We do not support trail

development, for example, for the purpose of tourism development. (Inaudible)

certain regions, trails that may be strenuous to hike, or anything like that.

That is not what our objective would be. Our objective would be community trails

to encourage people to get out and walk, and provides a venue for them to get

out and be active.

That is how we look at it from a recreational perspective.

MR. JOYCE: How big is that fund?

MR. MEADE: About $400,000.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

Is there any way to get the criteria for that? I mentioned to the minister

one trail out in Lark Harbour itself, and that is exactly what it would do: it

would get the people from the area out walking, because the streets are narrow

in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. There is another one over in Gillams that

would fall right under that.

I didn't know what the criteria was, so I could get the application and see

if it fits. Would you mind forwarding me a copy of that? I could actually get

the copy of the application and just send it on in with it, if it fits the

criteria.

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay.

MR. JOYCE: I will hand over these fees so you can do them, when there is

time, just to get them back to me with the rest of the information so we would

have it done.

That is all the questions I have.

Minister, just in closing, I thank you and the staff, and the staff out my

way also, for all of their help and assistance over time. Sometimes we may have

a disagreement, but it is always up front and we always try to work something

out, which is good for everybody that we deal with. So, thank you and the staff

for all your help over the years.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you for your inquiries and your comments.

Again, we pledge to continue working with you and all of our colleagues,

certainly, to make sure that it is in the best interest of the people we serve.

Thank you.

MR. JOYCE: I will just mention one last time the Corner Brook archives.

My volunteer background is with people with disabilities, and a lot people would

love to go there and just cannot get there. It may cost a lot of money, but it

may be something you can just look at over time to help (inaudible).

Thanks.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Joyce.

Any further questions from the Committee?

No further questions.

I will ask the Clerk now to call the subheads.

CLERK: Subheads 1.1.01. to 4.1.02. inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall subheads 1.1.01. to 4.1.02. carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01. through 4.1.02. carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report that the 2007-2008 Estimates of the Department of

Tourism, Culture and Recreation carried without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation

carried without amendment.

CHAIR: That concludes the debate on these Estimates.

I just want to mention the time for our next meeting on Monday.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chair, have the minutes of the last meeting been approved?

CHAIR: I have that here. That is coming.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

CHAIR: I just want to mention that the time for our next meeting will be

on Monday evening at 7:00 o'clock here in the Chamber. We will be doing the

Estimates of the Department of Business.

Now I will ask for a motion to adopt the minutes of our meeting that was held

yesterday evening for the Department of Environment and Conservation.

MR. JOYCE: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Joyce.

MR. BAKER: Seconded.

CHAIR: Seconded by Mr. Baker.

Shall the minutes of the Estimates debate for the Department of Environment

and Conservation carry as circulated?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: I just want to take the opportunity to thank the minister and his

officials, the Committee members and the House of Assembly staff.

That concludes this meeting now, and I ask for a motion to adjourn.

MR. BAKER: So moved.

CHAIR: Mr. Baker has made that motion.

This meeting now stands adjourned.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.